Dating, Relationships, & Sex, Featured, Race & Politics

You’re A Black Person Dating A White Person? Great. Have A Cookie, And Get Out Your Damn Head

black-men-white-women

Because of a change of address and a mix-up due to a two-year-old insurance issue, there was a period of time a couple years ago when I was driving around with an expired registration sticker. It was only for a week or so, but considering how often I’d randomly get followed by the cops, I spent that entire week on pins and needles, feverishly checking my rear view to make sure none were behind me. (My plan if I did happen to get followed? Park very quickly. Reason #3673 why I wouldn’t have been a very good career criminal.)

I didn’t get stopped (or even followed). But you know what did happen? I started noticing all the other cars on the road with expired inspection or registration stickers. My own self-consciousness made me hyper-vigilant to everyone else’s “flaws.”

This thought process isn’t particularly unique. Self-consciousness has a way of making you more aware of others who might share your trait. If you left the house in a rush and didn’t have time to iron, you’re more likely to notice other’s wrinkles. When I was young and self-conscious about the size and shape of my head, I picked up on things other people did to try to conceal their own heads. (“You’re not fooling anyone. I know you don’t like hats that much.“) And tell me I’m not the only one who bought a pair of sneakers, and immediately started seeing more and more of them on everyone’s feet.

What you realize eventually — well, what you hopefully realize eventually — is that no one really cares that much. Your self-consciousness about your slightly wrinkled blouse is entirely in your own head. Other people — even people who might notice the wrinkles — don’t care about it as much as you do. But you know what does make people care? When you’re so self-conscious, so obsessed with how you’re perceived that it affects how you think and act. The deeper you get in your own head, the more likely people will follow you there.

Ernest Baker, a Black man whose 565,000 word long tome on why he dates White women was published on Gawker yesterday, isn’t the first and won’t be the last person who feels obligated to explain his attraction to a person of another race. And I get it. I’m sure his dating habits have made him the target of some stares and some comments, and I understand the want to make clear that it’s possible to be attracted to White women and Black women at the same time. Dating a “Susan” doesn’t automatically make you unattracted to and uninterested in a “Shanae.”

What Baker and others like him don’t seem to realize, though, is that the interracial self-consciousness creates a self-fulfilling prophesy. They project their obsession with how their relationships are perceived onto others, making them believe everyone is as conscious of their coupling as they are. But, people only really start to care when they start believing and acting like everyone already cares.

—Damon Young

Filed Under:
Damon Young

Damon Young is the editor-in-chief of VSB. He is also a contributing editor for EBONY.com. He resides in Pittsburgh, and he really likes pancakes.

  • http://trulytafakari.com/ dara

    I read that article with a smidge of side-eye. He went through hundreds of words explaining the kind of interracial dater he was NOT, and in effect undermined the whole point of his article for me. And his answer for the invisible question of “So why write an article about this?” was essentially, “Because I wanna.” Which, if you have to resort to that, indicates you really have no point. He would have done better actually telling what has happened to him, instead of defensively dodging balls no one threw.

    • ernest baker

      “Because I want to” is exactly right. I did have a point but it wasn’t a generic, after-school special one with a neat resolution so people like you dismissed it. The story was more of a movie than an article. I’m glad that both you and the writer of this article read every word of it and allowed it to get you caught up in a rapture of emotions, positive or negative. That was my intent. Trust me, I spend so little time thinking about the racial implications of relationships I’m in, but I know it’s a pertinent subject so I wrote about it because I can and the response that it elicited is proof that people care. It’s not that complicated for me.

      • http://trulytafakari.com/ dara

        I’m delighted you’re haunting the spot. Thanks for the reply :)

        Seriously, though, the smidge of that side-eye was small because I agreed with a lot of what you said. It was just long, which is subjective, but still. lol. It almost sounded like you were preaching to the choir and ticking off all the reasons as to why you weren’t THAT kind of interracial dater.

        You don’t know that I dismissed your point; maybe I just MISSED your point? Like you said, I came prepared to read an article/essay that was written like a non-linear movie. Your thesis might’ve just gotten lost in the verbiage. Because if the reason you date white women is the same reason you date any other, then what was the answer to the implied question: “The Reality of Dating a White Woman When You’re Black?”

      • panamajackson

        So you’re saying you wrote upwards of 2,700 words on some sh*t you don’t even think about? #cmonson

        You are claiming you don’t really care and are just trolling Gawker, and anybody else who choses to read and ponder on it, so we’ll all get in our feelings?

        I ain’t buying it homes. At all. Nobody spends that much time writing about something they don’t care about. Nobody.

        • Rachmo

          Baaaaasicallyyyyyyyyyyy

        • http://www.twitter.com/IluminatiNYC Todd

          Yeah, I’m with you playa. You don’t write a lot of words about what you don’t care about.

        • pls

          has yet to reveal this mystery point that no one in these internet streets can find? k

      • NomadaNare

        As Peej and Dara have already said, it seems odd that you would almost aggressively assert how much you don’t care about the race of your significant other in a sprawling essay implicitly about the race of your significant other. It almost seems like you’re trying to justify having dated or currently dating a white woman, yet no one (well except for the people you cite) has really thrown you shade. Who are you trying to convince, and why are you trying to convince them?

      • NomadaNare

        Sorry to bomb you with another post, but even more pressing, don’t you think it’s a bit of an issue that you really don’t consider the race of your significant other? That’s similar (but not equivalent) to saying “Well, I really don’t think about the fact that my gf is a woman…” It seems weird.

        • Agatha Guilluame

          *dead*

      • Agatha Guilluame

        I don’t get making big declarative, in your feelings, statements at 25. You basically wrote an Ode to White Women…you’re Uncle Ruckus if he was more bashful and more literate. Why leave a very public paper trail of the nonsense in your head? Will your 50 year old self appreciate that? I’m embarrassed for you.

        • NomadaNare

          Really, though? Just gon go in like that? http://fc07.deviantart.net/fs46/i/2009/244/f/5/Tree_shadow_3_by_Afreen23.jpg

          You could at least let him explain himself, no? :)

          • Agatha Guilluame

            He insulted our intelligence the whole time. All this shucking and jiving. Side-stepping and back pedaling. I’m not here for it.

          • Rachmo

            He already explained himself in 50-11 words. My comment upthread summarized how I interpreted his novel.

        • http://brown-c6h12o6.tumblr.com/ RubyWooWho

          Cold world lol

      • God Shammgod

        It’s not complicated but your point was so complex that we missed it #atthesamedayumtime? Funny how that works.

        • http://stanoffewwords.wordpress.com/ Tristan

          The Wale defense.

      • Val

        Welp, I’m glad I didn’t waste my time reading it then.

        • Msdebbs

          Me neither….

        • http://brown-c6h12o6.tumblr.com/ RubyWooWho

          I’m tired of hearing black men whine about the “down sides” of dating white women. No one curr. If she makes you happy and gets your dang-a-lang wet, then great. I think black men overestimate the black woman’s gaze as it concerns this topic. No one is checking for your girl.

          • http://www.twitter.com/IluminatiNYC Todd

            Overstate, yes. It is definitely real though. You just learn to ignore it.

      • SweetSass

        My thing is, you claimed so many things that were diametrically opposed… One minute you say you grew up in white washed suburbia, next you say you went to a school in the hood. You said you dated all kinds one minute —then admitted you only had ever had white girlfriends. I think the whole thing screamed to me that by trying to distance yourself from the stereotype of the dude who only dates white chicks you managed to convince me you are that stereotype. Well done. And that black girls wanting thugs thing is so laughable. I would easily bet that you ignored academically inclined black girls aka blerds. I mean, if you were all that academically you’d be surrounded with them because in high school AP classes and college the female blerds outnumber the male ones 10 to 1. You have a white girl fetish. Just admit it, breathe… and we can all go back to our lives.

        • http://justfourguys.com Obsidian

          Can someone please explain to me how and why everytime a Man, Black or White, expresses a certain preference for something in a Woman, Black or White, said Man will invariably be slapped with the “fetish” label? And why this label seems ONLY to be applied to Men – NEVER to Women?

          I mean, do Women have a “successful Man” fetish?

          Do Women who have a liking for tall(er) Men, have a “fetish”?

          And so on?

          Please explain?

          O.

          • http://www.twitter.com/IluminatiNYC Todd

            I will say this about men and their preferences. They tend to be more granular, and have a deeper commitment to them. If they want, say, short Latin women from NYC who love to wear high heels, they will make a POINT of having nothing but that around them. Women definitely do have their preferences, but they aren’t as trait specific or as militantly committed.

            • Heavens2Murgatroid

              I’ve seen it both ways. Hence why both parties continue to recycle themselves in worn-out relationships.

              • http://justfourguys.com Obsidian

                Hello Mr. H2M:
                Pleasure meeting you! Could you please elaborate a bit on your abovve statement? I need clarification. Thanks!

                O.

                • Heavens2Murgatroid

                  Females have just as many preferences as do males when it comes to attraction/dating/relationships. Which is why when a person makes such a defined niche in whom they will date they can’t expect much variety. And thus, they will often run into the same benefits and problems they’ve encountered in previous “relationships.”

                  • http://www.twitter.com/IluminatiNYC Todd

                    Exactly. The smart people in this set with realize that they are the common denominator and either adjust their tastes or adjust their expectations. The fools just sit and wonder “Aw Lawdy, whaaai does this happen to me??!!!”

            • http://justfourguys.com Obsidian

              @Mr. Todd:
              I respectfully disagree; Bllack Women in particular have been well documented in not only stating their preferences in Men to anyone who will listen, and, have also been well documented in being the least bit interested in being “flexible” about them. Indeed, the meme of a Sistas who refuses to “settle for less” is accepted as Gospel among them, and fiercly defended by any one of them if anyone, especially a Brotha, dares to question it.

              O.

              • SweetSass

                When a woman talks about not settling for less 99% of the time she is talking about how she wants to be treated ie. not settling for guys who cheat, have wandering eyes, are boring people to be around. Not about physical characteristics.

                • http://justfourguys.com Obsidian

                  @Ms. SweetSass:
                  I am hopeful that we can have a civil exchange.

                  I hear what you’re saying but I am sorry to inform you that this is not the realtime reality on the ground for many “Tyrones”. Such Sistas may indeed mean the things you list, but it is also clear that they are adamant that such qualities come in the “packaging” they desire as well – and I for one have no problem with that.

                  What I have a problem with is their mendacity and hypocrisy about it.

                  Again, I am hoping that our exchange today, will shed more light than heat. I mean that.

                  O.

            • T.Q. Fuego

              “Women definitely do have their preferences, but they aren’t as trait specific”

              Interesting. I’ve experienced the opposite. Women are more detailed about what they say they want. Who they actually end up with is someone completely different #cuzlife but I’m more used to women having a more specific “type” that they’re looking for than men. The men I know without any significant pscyhological baggage are into “hot/sexy” and they don’t get any more specific than that. It’s by design. They’re trying to be as inclusive as their nature allows.

              • http://www.twitter.com/IluminatiNYC Todd

                I’ll put it to you like this. Women will have longer lists, but will deviate away from those lists much more often. Men may not always have a script, but if they do, they will stick to whatever script they have to the bitter end

          • esa

            fetishism tends to be the provenance of men. men fetishize and objectify; there is a natural correlation between the two. i worked with Katherine Gates ages ago on her book Deviant Desires, where she explored the more unusual fetishes (furries ! pony play ! sposhers ! crushers ! ballooonatics ! you get my drift) but the one thing fetishism had in common was .. it was practiced by men.

            with the exception of one genre, and one genre alone. it was the erotic literature women write about tv shows. interestingly, it involved a lot of men-on-men action. for whatever thas worth. but it seems to me this indicates, where men fetishize through the physical, women fetishize through the cerebral.

            as to racial fetishists, Robert Greene touches on this in The Art of Seduction, where he liists these folks under the chapter on potential targets. because they are so predictable.

            • http://justfourguys.com Obsidian

              Good morning Ms. Esa,
              And yet, it is WOMEN, in this case Black ones, who are so quick to sputter “fetish!” at the mere mention of a Man’s preferences – ANY preferences at that, no matter how benign.

              If a Man likes blue eyes and blonde hair on a Woman, “it’s a fetish!”

              If a Man likes big legs on a Woman, “it’s a fetish!”

              If a Man likes Black Women, “it’s a fetish!”

              If a Man likes well endowed Women, “it’s a fetish!”

              If a Man likes light(er) skinned Black Women, “it’s a fetish!”

              If a Man likes dark(er) skinned Black Women, “it’s a fetish!”

              If a Man likes BBWs, “it’s a fetish!”

              If a Man likes fitness-model Women, “it’s a fetish!”

              In short, one gets the sneaking suspicion that much of this “fetish!” yammering is more about (Black) Women projecting their own insecurities about their own desires, coupled with just good ole Sour Grapes.

              Look, we need to be mature enough to accept that people like what they like without having to defend or explain or justify it to ANYONE. Yes, it sucks not being the apple of others’ eye – but somhow, Black Women themselves, most especially, seem to want to cling to this notion that they, and they alone(!), somehow have the corner on this dubious distinction: newsflahs, they aren’t. Which compounds the above, because now we have to add self-indulgence to the stew of problems they so often envice in things like this.

              Yet another case study, in #ChickLogic101…

              O.

              • esa

                i mean yea people misuse and appropriate words all the time. that’s not nearly as exciting to me as talking about fetishism itself, and recognizing the ways in which it uses the male, and sometimes female, brain to create new patterns in life. also intriguing how this need can create powerful vulnerability in the ego ..

              • http://brown-c6h12o6.tumblr.com/ RubyWooWho

                What’s a well endowed woman? Huge TNA?

                • http://www.twitter.com/IluminatiNYC Todd

                  Yep!

                  • http://brown-c6h12o6.tumblr.com/ RubyWooWho

                    Never heard anyone call women well endowed.

                    • http://justfourguys.com Obsidian
                    • http://brown-c6h12o6.tumblr.com/ RubyWooWho

                      Be that as it may, the fact remains that not many people use it in referencing voluptuous female bodies.

                    • Keisha

                      Unfortunately, I’ve heard many males in the work place use “well endowed” to describe a woman with large breasts. No matter how old they get, they still act like boys. :-/
                      Outside of work, I agree with you…never heard it used.

                    • Sahel

                      Look,you have to understand boobies hold a certain fascination for men. Its natural

                    • Keisha

                      LOL…but is there really a need to comment? Can’t you all just cast a non-assuming glance our way every now and then? No long creepy stares…that’s weird and will probably result in a sexual harrassment case being filed. :-)

                    • Sahel

                      But how will you know we care…am just looking not touching. I have said it before and i will say it again,if i was a woman i would spend an obscene amount of time just soaping them boobies.

              • SweetSass

                Its not the liking that makes it a fetish… its the liking so much that you write every other thing off that makes it a fetish…

                Get it? It’s a matter of DEGREE. You know… subtlety, something you could use a little more of.

                • http://justfourguys.com Obsidian

                  *Sly grin* – oh yes, I’m quite familiar with subtlety; I’m just not particularly fond of it. I’m more than willing to trade it off for other more efficient methods of procuring that which I’m after. And I am happy to report that it’s worked well, thus far.

                  Getting back to the point though – couldn’t we say the exact same thing of so many (Black) Women, who seem to make it a point to focus on certain aspects of what they find desirable in Men, to the near exclusion of anything else? Couldn’t that also be classified as a fetish, and if not, why not?

                  Do try to remember: we’re trying to be civil to one another – OK?

                  :)

                  O.

                  • SweetSass

                    Just like everyone, once they find the right person their lists go out the window. Comeonson….

                    Stop sipping the bitter, sugarlass Kool Aid.

                    • http://justfourguys.com Obsidian

                      I don’t drink Kool Aid.

                      And “once they find the right person” actually proves/makes my point precisely.

                      Look, as I’ve been saying earlier (read: yesterday): I have no problem whatsoever with whomever the ladies choose to be with for whatever reason they chooose to be with them. Fine by me.

                      And, in truth, they do not owe me or anyone else a reason or explanation for why they do what they do. Fair enough.

                      I’m just saying that, in a sane and more just world, they would be more upright about the whole thing, and stop with the charade.

                      Your turn…

                      O.

                    • SweetSass

                      *Shrug* world ain’t fair. Or just.

                    • http://justfourguys.com Obsidian

                      Correction: the world aint fair or just, FOR GUYS.

                      For Women, it is. You know, via “social justice” and so forth (Fat Acceptance For Women Only, Make Lupita Beautiful, etc. et al).

                      Gotta love that Equality!

                      O.

                    • http://justfourguys.com Obsidian

                      @Ms. SweetSass:
                      Listen…earlier I said, that I’m good with whatever the ladies wish to do, but they would be doing us fellas a favor if they dropped the charade.

                      What you did above, with the “Kool Aid” remark, is a case in point.

                      I get that you don’t like me. You’re entitled to that view.

                      But please do not act like you care about my welfare at all, because we both know that you don’t.

                      You would be doing me a favor, if you stopped.

                      I hope I’m not asking for much.

                      O.

                    • http://justfourguys.com Obsidian

                      Oh – and you didn’t answer my question – which, given your line of work, speaks volumes.

                      Thanks for answering: “fetishes” are something that ONLY applies, to Men – NEVER, to Women.

                      Gotcha.

                      See? That was easy!

                      :)

                      O.

            • http://www.twitter.com/IluminatiNYC Todd

              Agreed. While women do have their strong preferences, women are also WAY more likely to be people who say “well, I don’t usually do this but…”. Women are more likely to make the cerebral to a fetish. Notice how way more women than men use the term “sapiosexual” (aka attracted to the intellectual and cerebral side of a person) than men.

              What I will say is more true is that men use fetishes as an end while women use fetishes as a means to get some intellectual concept. For example, I have an acquaintance who has a major fetish for handcuffs and steel bondages because STEEL B1TCHES! Meanwhile, his subs are more into the idea of giving up control that the actual steel. Thankfully, since they are well-adjusted (if kinky) folk, they can meet in the middle to meet each other’s needs, but let’s not pretend that they start at the same place mentally.

              • http://justfourguys.com Obsidian

                @Ms. Esa, Mr. Todd:
                Look, let’s not stoop to being obtuse here – we all both know exactly what’s going on, and I wish to tackle that issue head-on:

                Black Women who spout “fetish!” at any and ALL preferences of Men, are really engaging in Projection of the First Order, AND envincing Sour Grapes Hatin’ of the First Order.

                And we need to be able to simply, plainly, say that.

                And, I just did.

                So there.

                :)

                O.

              • Epsilonicus

                I have experienced the opposite. I have found women to be more steadfast in their preferences than men.

            • http://brown-c6h12o6.tumblr.com/ RubyWooWho

              Furries is so backwards to me solely for the function aspect. Who want to fugg in a hot arse suit?

          • http://brown-c6h12o6.tumblr.com/ RubyWooWho

            I have a over 6 ft, white teeth, nice body, above average sized pipe, degree holding black man fetish.

            I do not deny it. I’ve given shorter men play. I’ve given big men even more play, etc. I guess black women have the luxury of avoiding these types of labels because we’re considered “bottom of the barrel” anyway. No one cares what we like so anything that we do fancy, isn’t overanalyzed and nit picked.

            • http://justfourguys.com Obsidian

              @Ms. Ruby,
              Well, as the official representative for the shorter guys out there, please, by all means, don’t do us any favors; we are quite OK with your preferences, for whatever reasons you have thm.

              What we have problems with, is how Black Women like you have to make a huge Hollywood production out of that, AND how you have it oh-so-bad. And to add insult to injury, NO ONE is allowed to question it.

              I mean, really?

              So, knock yourself out…

              But can you at least be a lady about it?

              O.

              • http://brown-c6h12o6.tumblr.com/ RubyWooWho

                Hit dogs will holler. I can’t control what other women complain about though lol Maybe you need better female friends who complain about fracking, how gluten is sending is to hayle, and how our kids are among the most unintelligent in the world.

                • http://justfourguys.com Obsidian

                  Hit dogs will holla, indeed!–after all, it was YOU, who came on here copping a plea – right? ;)

                  And, if mindspace of the ladies in this hallowed forum is any indication, it would go quite a ways toward explaing as to how or why, it is rather difficult to find Black lady friends, who are more concerned with gluten, the educational system (of which many actually make their daily bread by destroying the minds of Black boys, ahem) and fracking, than they are Love & Hip Hop, RHOA, Beyonce and Rihanna…you get the idea.

                  :)

                  O.

                  • http://brown-c6h12o6.tumblr.com/ RubyWooWho

                    Hypocrite thy name is RubyWooWho (we already know this though).

                    Anyway, I don’t think teachers are to blame for the shoddy education (public education) children receive. Kids go into classes ill-equipped and teachers not only have to prepare children to pass state/federal testing, but getting the children who lag behind up to speed. It’s impossible. Parents are sometimes unable to reinforce what’s taught at school and the summers for US children are spent forgetting the things they learned over the course of 9 months.

                    Besides. School is about teaching to test. It always has been. Schools that get better scores stand to gain more funding. Hence, these huge cheating debacles in school districts with low income families.

                    • http://justfourguys.com Obsidian

                      Well, self awareness is a big part of life; take a curtsey!

                      And you’ll get no argument out of me that most Black parents (read: Baby Mamas in particular) suck; or that most (Black) school districts and admins, suck; or that NCLB, sucked.

                      But none of that excuses the fact that A LOT of Black tteachers, SUCK.

                      And that most of them, just happen to Black and Female.

                      So, going back to your point, it would make perfect sense that such Sistas aren’t tooo keen to discuss the nitty gritty of their own professions and the impact they’re having on Black youth, boys in particular, for the worse, and iinstead while away their time discussing Rihanna’s n*pples, Black card games or reality tv shows; if I sucked that bad ay my job, I wouldn’t be too keen to discuss it either.

                      Next question?

                      O.

                    • http://brown-c6h12o6.tumblr.com/ RubyWooWho

                      I don’t buy into black female teachers being bad at their jobs though.

                      Throughout my educational history I had very few black female teachers. The few that I had were exceptionally hard on me and had high expectations for my performance. If anything, my white female teachers were the among my poorest teachers. My mother actually had to pull me out of school in 7th grade due to a particularly racist science teacher who had a personal vendetta against young black kids. She was one of the teachers who told me black people don’t belong in science.

                      My success in school can be solely attributed to my black educators and school administrators. They always looked out for me and other minorities and were eager to help when necessary. I’m not sure why you feel black women set the bar low as teachers.

                    • http://www.twitter.com/IluminatiNYC Todd

                      Honestly, I think it’s different strokes, different folks. Quite frankly, a decent chunk of my Black female teachers sucked. Some were nice people who taught me a strong sense of self, and others were evil female dogs, but they weren’t that good. Then again, I spent my elementary and middle school days cruising through school. I could have been taught by monkeys and been alright. LOL

                    • http://brown-c6h12o6.tumblr.com/ RubyWooWho

                      That’s the thing though, it’s as much the responsibility of the student to do what they need to do, as it is the teacher’s to perform their job well. I knew plenty of black boys/girls in high school who claimed Mrs. X was such a bad teacher but it wasn’t Mrs. X who came to class late, came to class unprepared, came to class just to sleep, etc.

                    • http://justfourguys.com Obsidian

                      @Ms. Ruby:
                      “I don’t buy into black female teachers being bad at their jobs though.”

                      O: Oh why am I not surprised. Alright then, why don’t you buy into it? On what empirical grounds? Do tell!

                      “Throughout my educational history I had very few black female teachers. The few that I had were exceptionally hard on me and had high expectations for my performance. If anything, my white female teachers were the among my poorest teachers. My mother actually had to pull me out of school in 7th grade due to a particularly racist science teacher who had a personal vendetta against young black kids. She was one of the teachers who told me black people don’t belong in science.”

                      O: OK – so, because you happened to have good Black female teachers, and sucky White ones, therefore, what I have said about the state of Black education, paticularly at the primary levels in Black public school districts, is rendered invalid – correct?

                      “My success in school can be solely attributed to my black educators and school administrators. They always looked out for me and other minorities and were eager to help when necessary. I’m not sure why you feel black women set the bar low as teachers.”

                      O: Because, evidence. Black Women make up the bulk of teachers, as teaching especially at the primary level is a predominately female profession. Moreover, looking at the highschool performance or lack thereof, of Black boys especially in just about every major Black city in the nation, really says it all as to the overall track record of Black teachers.

                      You were saying?

                      O.

                    • http://brown-c6h12o6.tumblr.com/ RubyWooWho

                      Black girls generally outpace black boys in education point blank though. How is it an educator’s fault that black boys (as well as black girls) come to school with the sole intent of fugging, fighting, and creating disturbances as opposed to learning? You can only do but so much for some of these kids who already don’t value much beyond things that gratify them in the here and now.

                      I don’t know how these teachers go to some of these schools every day just to have students curse them out and tell them what they won’t do. I don’t think it should fall 100% on any teacher to be a teacher, MMA referee, jail warden, etc.

                      I don’t have much say on how single black moms raise kids. Many of them do a fine job considering lack of resources/support from the fathers of their children. Still, many of them struggle with parenting alone as well.

                    • http://www.twitter.com/IluminatiNYC Todd

                      I think the upshot is that so many single moms either front like they don’t need help or are pressured out of admitting they need help because they are Strong Black Women ™. That whole strength thing can be a cross to single mothers, and the impact radiates to all of us.

                    • http://brown-c6h12o6.tumblr.com/ RubyWooWho

                      I won’t ever fault any woman who is forced to parent alone because the father isn’t an active parent. You can’t make anyone a parent if they don’t want to be that. You can drag men to court and squeeze them for money but money won’t ever be a substitute for a hands on parent who is engaging their child. I understand that @disqus_IPU6vpG8iu:disqus loathes the way black women across the board breathe in oxygen but black women are out here trying at least.

                      All black women aren’t out here ruining the lives of black children. I know many successful black people who are products of single mothers. I wish Obsidian would acknowledge those successes and advocate ways to help out kids who seem to be struggling in single parent homes. Maybe he could be a Black mentor to young black males. Idk.

                    • http://www.twitter.com/IluminatiNYC Todd

                      Fair enough. I can see that, and do what I can. I also see the bigger picture of how so often, there is a resistance to accepting help, but you can only do what’s possible.

                    • http://brown-c6h12o6.tumblr.com/ RubyWooWho

                      I understand that. I have no experience with being raised in a single parent home. I am not a single parent myself. I don’t know that struggle. Still, I’ve done my fair share of volunteering and reaching out in my spare time. I’d much rather do that than talk about how crappy black mother’s are. It takes a village.

                    • http://justfourguys.com Obsidian

                      No, it takes a family to raise kids, and that means, like the one you had growing up. What you are doing right now is enabling bad behaviros. It will wind up doing more harm than good.

                      #BringShameBack

                      O.

                    • http://brown-c6h12o6.tumblr.com/ RubyWooWho

                      No. My parents had lots of help in raising me. Yes, they were my caretakers and instilled a core set of values/beliefs in me but those things were all reinforced by other relatives, family friends and also church members.

                      I stayed getting snatched up by friends of my parents when I stepped out of line. It wasn’t just my mom and dad but they get 99% of the credit for me being the way I am today.

                    • http://justfourguys.com Obsidian

                      @Ms. Ruby:
                      Your comment is rife with assumptions, hyperbole and misconceptions, and very thin on facts. First, you have no idea what I have done or am currently doing with my time along these lines. Second, they are irrelevant to the points we are discussing. Third, one of the things I choose to do is speakout about all of the massive levels of dysfunction in Black American life from a “boots on the ground” level. Fourth, you presume that Black dads do not wish to be involved with their kids, and that Baby Mamas want them involved. Fifth, I mentioned Ben Carson, who was raised by a single mama. And sixth, please stop trying to evade the points being made. The more Black people do this, the longer it will take to meaningfully address the problems.

                      O.

                    • http://justfourguys.com Obsidian

                      @Ms. Ruby:
                      ” Black girls generally outpace black boys in education point blank though. How is it an educator’s fault that black boys (as well as black girls) come to school with the sole intent of fugging, fighting, and creating disturbances as opposed to learning? You can only do but so much for some of these kids who already don’t value much beyond things that gratify them in the here and now.”

                      O: For one thing, Black girls, and girls generally in the USA, have been outpacing boys of all colors (including Asians! Look it up) in American education at all levels, in large part due to the ideological skew that has taken place at the policy and pedagological levels over the past roughly three to four decades. Boys historically did better in school than they do currently, and a huge reason for that was the absence of PC-addled ideology. Education in our time is boring and fails to capture the imagination of boys, to say nothing of harnessing their innate talents and gifts.

                      So there’s that.

                      Secondarily, as I’ve said previously, you’ll get no argument out of the fact that far too many Black parents in our time, suck – and that, most Black parents in our time, are Baby Mamas. Fact. If we want to examine the key source of Black male failure and fracture, we need go no further than the Baby Mama.

                      So there’s that.

                      Still in all, as US Congressman Chaka (Do Nothing, Good For Nothing) Fattah has rightly(!) pointed out, most teachers cannot pass the very tests that they hand out to their own students – and yes, this includes the many Black female ones. As I’ve said, they SUCK.

                      And I have no compunction in the least, in putting that on blast – without any qualifier on it.

                      “I don’t know how these teachers go to some of these schools every day just to have students curse them out and tell them what they won’t do. I don’t think it should fall 100% on a ny teach er to be a teacher, MMA referee, jail warden, etc.”

                      O: Nor do I; but that still doesn’t change the facts I’ve laid out above. A lot off Black teachers, SUCK. And a lot of those Black teachers, are female.

                      “I don’t have much say on how single black moms raise kids. Many of them do a fine job considering lack of resources/support from the fathers of their children. Still, many of them struggle with parenting alone as well.”

                      O: That is an odd statement considering the avalanche of evidence, empirical and anecdotal; methinks this is your own subjectivity coming to the fore again, rather than cool and rational assessment of even the most basic facts.

                      You really should reign that bad habit in…

                      O.

                    • http://brown-c6h12o6.tumblr.com/ RubyWooWho

                      What facts? I’m not sitting here in front of some factoid sheet that lays out the thousands of single black mothers next to each other. Yes, single black mothers struggle to raise kids. I get that. But you say that like every single unwed black mother does a dismal job at raising kids. The day you present me with a pie chart, graph, etc. with some numbers is the day I’ll stop using real life examples to lean so heavily on.

                      You just show up and tell me that what you say is true. If that’s the case then you could tell me the Earth is not round and on the strength of your word, I should believe that is true as well.

                    • http://justfourguys.com Obsidian

                      @Ms. Ruby:
                      ” What facts? I’m not sitting here in front of some factoid sheet that lays out the thousands of single black mothers next to each other.”

                      O: True, you aren’t; but are you seriously going to tell me that the considerable numbers of Baby Mamas with Black boys in your local area are doing a bangup job and producing an Army of Ben Carsons?

                      Really?

                      “Yes, single black mothers struggle to raise kids. I get that. But you say that like every single unwed black mother does a dismal job at raising kids.”

                      O: Most do. Oh, and it has NOTHING to do with the absent Black dad. It has to do with their own choices taken.

                      “The day you present me with a pie chart, graph, etc. with some numbers is the day I’ll stop using real life examples to lean so heavily on.”

                      O: *Sigh* – OK. Hit up the Manhattan Institute. Checkout a lady by name of Kay Hyomwitz. She has written exhaustively on these matters.

                      When you get done with that, hit up the American Enterprise Institute. Checkout a gentleman by name of Charles Murray. Like Ms. Hymowitz, he too has done exhaustive research and study on these matters, focusing on lower class Whites(!) and using Fishtown, a neighborhood here in Philly, as a case in point. The book is called “Coming Apart”.

                      “You just show up and tell me that what you say is true. If that’s the case then you could tell me the Earth is not round and on the streng th of yo ur word, I should believe that is true as well.”

                      O: LOL, calm down. What I am saying to you is, that more often than not, on the matters we tend to discuss, I have actually investigated the matter, and you have not. That’s not a dig or a diss, just pointing out that I try to be inform using objective measures as my guide, rather than subjective ones.

                      O.

                    • http://brown-c6h12o6.tumblr.com/ RubyWooWho

                      See, I now have names and papers to look up and I can do that on my spare time. Much better than you barking at me :-)

                    • http://justfourguys.com Obsidian

                      Well, just lean on the White Man(TM)’s Authority – it’s the Negresses Kryptonite, dontcha know…

                      ;)

                      O.

                    • Val

                      “I don’t buy into black female teachers being bad at their jobs though.”

                      People just don’t get it, AP. They want to villainize Black women teachers because of course it’s always easiest to attack Black women. But, what they don’t or won’t get is that if folks think inner city schools are bad now, take the Black women teachers away and you’ll really see how bad schools can be. Black women are the glue that hold these schools together.

                      Michelle Rhee fired 700 mostly Black women teachers and are DC schools any better? Heck no, they’re worse.

                    • http://brown-c6h12o6.tumblr.com/ RubyWooWho

                      I would NEVER teach in any public DC school. Those children, even the younger ones, are hayle on Earth. That being said, you’re absolutely right about BW teachers being the captains of the ships that are schools. My 7th grade literature teacher used to throw blunt objects at us in class. No one ever said anything about it because if you got hit you deserved it lol She was the best and I still talk to her when I see her out.

                    • http://negrolibre.tumblr.com/ Negro Libre

                      I think it’s beside the point really – Good or bad teachers don’t matter much. One could almost say it’s a distraction really.

                      If I asked you what is the main problem with homeschooling for instance, the answer I’m accustomed to getting is that people who are homeschooled are poorly socialized. The answer is revealing, because it answers another question, which people would never really say directly: the purpose of public education is to socialize you. So see, the GPA and the grades really don’t matter much. Nobody cares in the adult world what your GPA or what your SAT score was, all they care about is your performance and your loyalty, and that applies to the work world and relationships as well, on all levels from romantic to political.

                      No matter how good or bad a teacher is, socialization is the name of the game and no matter how inspirational or magnanimous a female or male teacher is, it’s not going to make a big difference in the long run. The fact is that as a kid, if you have any sense of independence or non-conformity, whether you came from a broken home or not, you will struggle in school. And if you refuse to be socialized, the system will go out of it’s way to ostracize you either by drugging you, moving you to a lower level school (which will torment your parents, especially your mother), or putting you into the mental health industry (my specialty, I suppose). Trust me, what most people presume schooling and education to be about in this country has nothing to do with what it actually is.

                      There’s a reason why you see adverts like this on TV:
                      http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zbYGDpexy98

                      But you don’t see or hear much about this on TV:
                      http://ocw.mit.edu/index.htm
                      https://www.edx.org/

                    • http://justfourguys.com Obsidian

                      @Negro Libre:
                      Boom! And which puts my arguments into even sharper context:

                      Are Black teachers, which is my focus here, socializing Black kids and boys especially, in effective ways? What evidence can be brought to ber, that this is indeed the case? And if thisis not the case, why are we lauding Black teachers for anything? What good are they doing? Indeed, are they doing more hamr, than good?

                      Going back to your points more generally NL, Charles Murray has written extensively on this matters, in the books “Real Education” and most especially for purposes of your discussion, “Coming Apart”.

                      Have you read them?

                      O.

                    • http://negrolibre.tumblr.com/ Negro Libre

                      I haven’t read Charles Murray. Much of my ideas on schooling – outside of the obvious fact that the internet has brought the price of education to such a low price that one could literally become a biomedical engineer by taking classes on MIT for free – are from John Taylor Gatto and few other thinkers on the subject.

                      As for black teachers, they wouldn’t receive a license to teach, if they weren’t taught to socialize students. In fact, I presume that black teachers actually probably care more about the black students than their white counterparts will, but that almost guarantees though that they will be even bigger defenders of the school system as a form of salvation than white folks would be. The desire to help, and offer assistance is far worse, when it’s mixed with ignorance, because it excuses it. And unfortunately, most teachers in general are in school to teach, the “bureaucratic spirit” so to speak is what ensures that “socialization” happens, regardless of the intent of the teachers. And like a fish in water, most people who are a part of such a system concerned with fulfilling whatever there specialty is and concerned with other matters of life, like bills, children and the rest, are not going to be aware of what is actually going on.

                      It’s actually common sense, if you think like a social engineer or a general in charge of a bunch of armies ( a perspective that most of us are taught not to even imagine in public schools, if you really think about it)

                      http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BJhSAv-NrDo

            • T.Q. Fuego

              Props to you for being honest though. I think it’s really arbitrary how a lot of people draw the lines between preference and fetish. Like how come it’s fetishizing (or even self-hatred) when a dude puts light-skin and “good hair” on a pedastal, but not when chick’s do the same with dark-skin, tall bodies, or large dongs? How come our forms of physical admiration are considered to be objectification but the way ladies do it is cool? I don’t buy the “bottom of the barrel” thing though? That’s just a rationalization. I understand that some double standards just occur naturally and aren’t necessarily wrong just because they aren’t right, but I’m curious about how people justify this. Is it because dark skin is a symbol of blackness and thus more acceptable because it’s interpreted as more politically righteous or is it a matter of women being allowed (if not encouraged) to be inconsistent with these types of subjective criticisms? Another question, can a black woman have a “Mandingo fetish”? Why or why not?

              • http://justfourguys.com Obsidian

                @TQF:
                Well, my goood sir, that’s easy:

                #ChickLogic101.

                Next question?

                :)

                O.

              • http://brown-c6h12o6.tumblr.com/ RubyWooWho

                I don’t think BW can have a mandingo fetish if they’ve had numerous black men as chex partners throughout life. There’s no mystery behind it and we’re not out here trying to bed men because we think they have the “Messiah” in their briefs. If anything, I’ve come across very few black men I considered well endowed.

                • T.Q. Fuego

                  ” I’ve come across very few black men I considered well endowed.”

                  My condolences? lol I hear what you’re saying cause I know the well endowed thing is more rare than common with men in general (hence it being a big deal to so many men) but I think the real elephant in the room in these convos is colorism. A lot of black chicks do project Mandingo fantasies on attractive dark-skinned men and thus exalt them sexually over other black men. I don’t have any problem with it. I’d never try to tell anyone how to have a secksuality I just wondered aloud why it’s not considered fetishizing if the way so many brothers exalt “redbones” is viewed as a (self hatin @ss) fetish.

          • SweetSass

            I’ll cop to yellow fever. Living in the DC area I see a ton of hot Asian dudes- usually Koreans or hapas. It’s messed up but I do wanna sleep with one… To ahem … Taste the rainbow.

            And gingers. I definitely want to hook up with a hairy ginger. I think Prince Harry is to blame for that one.

            But people of all races are “tall” or “successful” or “thin” or in possion of narrow noses etc etc etc. When it becomes toxic is when you try to make sweeping statements like blonde hair and blue eyes are objectively attractive. Nothing is objectively attractive. Attraction is entirely subjective.

            • Epsilonicus

              There are some objective features that are attractive, just not the ones you mentioned.

              • SweetSass

                Like symmetry. But features are features and all kinds of features are on different people. But those who write off all of one type of people are veering away from mere preference into discrimination.

            • http://justfourguys.com Obsidian

              “Attraction is not a choice.”
              -David D’Angelo

              @Ms. SweetSass:
              The above quotation comes from among the foremost Pickup gurus, Mr. D’Angelo; you can look him up if you like via Google. He’s also discussed at some length in the memoir “The Game”. And his maxim is bracingly true.

              Science has confirmed it. So has the multi-billion dollar romance-erolit business, which eclipses the p*rn business both in terms of reach and receipts. As I said the other night in the discussion on Rihanna, Beauty is Objective – and so is Desire.

              For more on all of this, please see the book, “A Billion Wicked Thoughts”.

              I think it would do the Black community in particular well to be much more earnest with itself; it may not foster more couples coming together, but it would at the very least stanch the bleeding of acrimony between the s*xes.

              And that, accounts for something.

              O.

        • http://www.twitter.com/IluminatiNYC Todd

          Interesting thing about the lady blerds. FWIW, in my college days, the ones in my classes tended to be much more likely to be in relationships. It doesn’t pay to try to pick up someone already committed. Just an observation.

          • http://justfourguys.com Obsidian

            @Mr. Todd:
            Right – which is just one of a plethora of reasons that this notion that there are “gal nerds” who “go through the same things” as #RealNerds is just freaking ridiculous. It’s #ChickLogic101StrikesAgain, pure and simple.

            Look ladies: being “awkward” as a gal is NOT the same as being nerdy for a guy – ESPECIALLY IF YOU’RE A BLACK GUY. There is NO comparison to be made here. Zero. Zilch. Blank.

            Please stahp.

            :)

            O.

        • ernest baker

          It’s hilarious that you want to hate me and project that I have a white girl fetish so badly that you resort to making shit up about my life and refusing to wrap your head around the idea that someone on Earth may have had a different life experience than you. It’s amusing but also pathetic. Like, guess what? I did grow up in a white washed suburb. That town fed into a rougher high school and by 8th grade most white people moved or sent their kids to private school. I didn’t. Guess what else? I dated black girls in high school. I just dated white girls too and I knew that writing about those specific experiences with white girls would make a tremendous impact and piss off people like you. Well done, indeed.

          • Rachmo

            Wait I’m a bit lost here. In your piece you said you only date White women. Now you’re saying you dated both. Which is it?

          • SweetSass

            You literally said you only ever had white girlfriends. You are the one who has it twisted, son.

            And I quote: “The thing is, I have to consider that while I’ve hooked up with women of other races, just about all of my girlfriends in life, since I was 13, have been white.”

            Hooking up (chex) =/= dating someone.

      • Kim

        “There are self-hating black men who date white women for contrived and pathetic reasons and I hate them. They’re so upfront about their exclusive attraction to white women and they’ll give you a list of reasons why. It is deliberate for them. They smugly go out of their way to put down black women based on stereotypical notions about their attitude, or hair, or something equally stupid and it’s corny and disgusting.”

        Proceeds to list pathetic reasons:

        “I definitely like the straight, light hair and fair skin and colored eyes you get with a lot of white women.”
        “Let’s be real, blonde hair and blue eyes are fucking attractive.”

        Goes out of way to put down black women based on stereotypical notions about their attitude… or something equally stupid:

        “I went to a black high school and I wasn’t on any of that thug shit and I’m not saying all black women want thugs, but at my high school, a lot of them did and they didn’t really care about me”
        …But you’re not like those men, BOYYY STOP! We heard enough.
        Keep it Cute or Keep it on mute. You like white girls and that’s that.

    • NomadaNare

      We are *here* on that point. A couple of very good friends of mine have married interracially, and they really don’t feel the need to “justify” it to anyone. In fact, I just got invited to their baby shower. (Yes, the men are included too). No one gives him funny looks nor is it even an issue, even when we all go out.

    • BeautifullyHuman

      Funny thing, I read this article yesterday as well, and I found the comments by far more interesting than the piece itself.

      Off topic/on topic but I so agree with you Champ about hyper-awareness. Whenever I spill something on myself at work, I swear everyone else can see that small a** stain on my slacks. Lol

      • http://trulytafakari.com/ dara

        I read it before the duststorm and avoided the comments. I can only imagine.

        • BeautifullyHuman

          Of course some of the comments were outright ignorant…that’s to be expected with race topics and especially those with a black male/white female dynamic, but there were many good ones as well.

          There were many who openly challenged the author’s thinking and his premise. And of course the personal anecdotes about those in actual IR relationships.

          Many of the comments I found to be the most interesting were the ones that came from the perspective of black women/white male relationships.

          • http://justfourguys.com Obsidian

            @Ms. BH:
            Precisely – thank you for raising a point that I wanted to ask about:

            Would we even be talking about Mr. Baker if in fact it had been *Ernestine Baker*, writing a “tome” as to how and why she’s dating White Men? Would Ms. Dara offer her editorial “services” and “concern” so freely? Would the other Sistas in this hallowed forum be so animated in their response?

            Hmmm…

            It occurs to me that ANY reason or rationale ANY Black Man gives for as to how and why he does what he does romantically that doesn’t involve Black Women or failing that, *certain types of Balck Women* automatically seems to be open to microscopic scrutiny; but switch the places, and suddenly Sistas don’t seem so interested to give the writings the proctological treatment.

            Fascinating.

            #ChickLogic101

            O.

            • pls

              chile cheese.

              if bw were blaming bm and lying about bm never being interested in them we’d call them on it too. bm are the only ones that can’t own up to their preferences and feel the urge to blame an entire race of women for their discrimination.

              • http://www.twitter.com/IluminatiNYC Todd

                True. BeyondBlackWhite.com has been called out by the sistren on here.

                (edited for the correct site address)

                • KKay

                  Oh they are very “special” over at that site.

                  **edited for grammer**

                  • http://www.twitter.com/IluminatiNYC Todd

                    WORD! Part of me wants to fly in replacement sisters for the poor White guys dealing with these loons. Or at least give them a special commendation from the NAACP or something. By taking these women out of the dating pool, those men are doing the Lord’s work.

                    • KKay

                      Right!

                      But I mean they go in on just about everyone who doesn’t mean their standards; don’t think for a minute that other black women aren’t in their line of fire either.

                      I just personally don’t understand twisting yourself into a pretzel to get the mythical white male. That certainly doesn’t sound like the start of a healthy relationship to me.

              • http://justfourguys.com Obsidian

                Hello & Good morning, Ms. Pls! Pleasure meeting you.

                “chile cheese.”

                O: Hmm, that’s a new one; Upgrades!

                “if bw were blaming bm and lying about bm never being interested in them we’d call them on it too.”

                O: No, you wouldn’t; if anything, you’d cosign their right not to be “harassed” by such lowly, undesirable Brothas. It happens so much it is akin to a fish not having any idea whatsoever that its immersed in very wet water.

                “bm are the only ones that can’t own up to their preferences and feel the urge to blame an entire race of women for their discrimination.”

                O: Again, nyet. Evidence abounds as to Black Men’s preferences in Women, Black or otherwise – music videos, are just one very conspicuous example. P*rn, is another. And as Champ pointed out yesterday with his Ode to Rihanna, pop culture, is yet another.

                Now, what I think you’re getting at is IR Dating/Mating Brothas, who do the OJ Thing when attempting to explain away how he “just so happened” to get with all those White Women he was with; in this, I agree with you, that’s lame and whacked. What those Brothas are attempting to do however, is avoid the H*llfire Fury that the Sistahood will rain down on him for, as Mr. Baker’s essay points out, dares say that he’s viscerally attracted to White features – such as blonde hair and blue eyes. Saying such things are considered anathema to the Sistahood, and will pretty much guarantee him social scorn and worse.

                Really, I think all of this is getting tired – as I have shown in yesterday’s commentary about Rihanna, we all know that the Scale, is Real, and that the vast majority of us do NOT skew toward the right side of the bell curve distribution, but at best, more in the middle, and more often than we’re willing to openly admit, more to the left end of the spectrum. Why that is so very hard for us to simply say and get it over with, continues to, at turns, baffle and fascinates me.

                O.

                • Andrea

                  I am curious to understand how accepting your percentile on the bell curve influences your thoughts on IR Dating?

                  • http://justfourguys.com Obsidian

                    @Ms. Andrea:
                    It doesn’t necessarily; I was speaking to universal standards of attractiveness overall. IR mating plays a role to some extent, in its role to potentially open up “untapped markets” for both Black Men and Women; still, the Scale reigns supreme there as well, and I suspect this will increasingly become the case as IR mating becomes more commonplace.

                    Like the economic world, the SMP one is fast become less about Race, and more about Class.

                    O.

      • sweetbee

        Yes, I am always here for the response. I skimmed the article but spent more time reading a lot of the comments.

    • h.h.h.

      i skimm’d the story yesterday.
      the point i took away from it was he is ‘pushing back’ against the ‘narrative’ or rather stereotypes about BM who don’t date BW. so he took the long route to say, ‘sometimes it just happens’.
      but the pushback from this article either leads me to believe he didn’t get his point across, or BM who date out really shouldn’t say anything (other than ‘i like her’).
      i think you’re right in that personal examples might have helped get his message across better.

      • http://trulytafakari.com/ dara

        “but the pushback from this article either leads me to believe he didn’t get his point across” (true for me)

        “or BM who date out really shouldn’t say anything (other than ‘i like her’)” (what else would there be to say, if no questionable reasons exist?)

        • h.h.h.

          i guess they are showing (to themselves) that they aren’t…(whats an appropriate phrase)…that they aren’t trying to badmind BF.

          • http://trulytafakari.com/ dara

            Interestingly enough, most reactions to the piece haven’t been fury, just peevishness lol. I don’t think most who read it is feeling ‘some kind of way’ about him dating white women…and that might be why it’s been received like that.

            On another note, I did read a comment on FB about the piece that said BM should stick to BW. For THOSE people, he should’ve written an entirely different essay. lol

            • http://www.twitter.com/IluminatiNYC Todd

              Word. I’m here for consenting adult females, preferably who speak English as a first language and have a nice a$$. Past that comes taste, compatibility and the ability to fill out a pair of boyshorts well.

    • Rachmo

      Erm a smidge? I was more full on squinting like…what is all of this? Did anyone ask him to clarify this?

      • afronica

        Where was his editor? I mean, I know blogs like Gawker are light on the support staff and people consider editors unnecessary these days, but he really coulda used one. Especially for length.

        • Rachmo

          Right. I thought there was going to be a narrative on dating across cultures or parental acceptance. Shoot idk having to talk about White privilege? I didn’t realize it was going to be an essay on “I kind of sort of only smash Black chicks and wife up White ones but HEAR ME OUT!” Maybe that wasn’t his intent but that’s how it read.

          • blackphilo

            “I kind of sort of only smash Black chicks and wife up White ones but HEAR ME OUT!”

            LOL!!!

            • Rachmo

              Haha I’m dead serious! I was like…errrr…okay well that’s good for…you?

              • blackphilo

                You might be serious, but that probably was the funniest line I’ve ever read here.

          • afronica

            You got me rolling, girl. Yeah, I was expecting some depth. Instead I very much felt I had read this same article many, many times before. No depth to it.

            • God Shammgod

              He started an article about interracial dating discussing OJ. I knew it was going nowhere good after that.

              • BeautifullyHuman

                White folks were so mad in the comment section when he referenced this. Downhill in that thread.

                • Wild Cougar

                  He’s so in touch with white people’s feelings he knew exactly which button to push. Lmao, that part of the comments made me chuckle, tho. They never gon get over it

              • afronica

                Truly, the OJ ref made me shake my head while I was reading. Like I’m thinking he was trying to cite examples of racial tension that everyone could remember and relate to, I guess? But if you’re trying to be clear, why kick up the dust of that particular incident? You’re guaranteeing that people will be fighting the air and caught up in their feels, missing your article entirely.

              • SweetSass

                I KNOW, RIGHT?!? Let’s have a calm, postmodern discussion… I’ll bring the pitchforks.

              • just kia

                also the commenters really got into that whole OJ thing, but that’s gawker.

              • pls

                yt was in the comments goin ham about oj!

            • Rachmo

              Look I’m pro IR and what not but I’m not pro trying to convince me you absolutely could NEVER date someone within your own race but you can smash. No sirree Bob miss me with that.

              • afronica

                Gives a whole new meaning to side chick. smh

          • KKay

            “I kind of sort of only smash Black chicks and wife up White ones but HEAR ME OUT!”

            You perfectly articulated how I viewed this essay. LOL

          • http://www.twitter.com/IluminatiNYC Todd

            Yeah, me too. I’m late-rolling on this, but it sounds accurate from what I read.

            • Rachmo

              I’m calling a spade a spade without all this jibber jabber

          • SweetSass

            I heart you, Rachmo.

            • Rachmo

              Ma’am I am just calling it like I see it. And heart you back!

        • SweetSass

          Black twitter rage = clicks = more money.

      • http://trulytafakari.com/ dara

        I gave him a smidge because he skirted the usual suspect reason for interracial dating. Although I DID think, at least once, Methinks the gentleman doth protest too much…

        • Rachmo

          I side-eyed from start to dayum finish. I IR date myself and I don’t remember writing essays to justify it. My justification has always been if you are hot and cool I am all in. FIN

          • KKay

            “if you are hot and cool I am all in”

            And your justification only took you 10 words. :)

        • http://justfourguys.com Obsidian

          @Ms. Dara:
          Given the copious amount of commentary you’ve given Mr. Baker’s missive, I’d say he’s not the only who doth protest too much…hmm?

          #PsyOpsIsReal

          O.

      • http://CabreraInteriors.com/ Bunni
        • just kia

          THAT’S THE EXACT PIC I WAS THINKING ABOUT!

      • http://stanoffewwords.wordpress.com/ Tristan

        Reading like….

    • http://stanoffewwords.wordpress.com/ Tristan

      Hr entered the ring in a defensive stance and the opponent wasn’t even there yet…. Shook one

      • http://trulytafakari.com/ dara

        ahh Tristan…yep.

  • towninc

    Iman and heidi ~ boss

  • Jacqueline

    The author actually lost me with his opening paragraph. I also get tired of the storyline about growing up in a white community and the too nerdy nonsense. I grew up in an all white community and had few options for dating, there were about 5 black or Latino males. Period. So I know a thing or two about options, but not once did I try to justify dating a white guy by blaming black guys. Not once.

    This sentence was very telling for me: “Let’s be real, blonde hair and blue eyes are fucking attractive and
    thinking that doesn’t mean you’re a piece of shit who gives those
    features inherent value over the features of other races. Rihanna is hot
    and so is Blake Lively. Lupita N’yongo is hot and so is Allison
    Williams. Sue me for not allowing my race to limit what I find
    attractive.”

    Blake Lively is homely and while I love Allison Williams father (Brian Williams) and think she is talented, I think she is homely, too. He was very excited about blond hair and blue eyes, but has anyone else here seen a person with blond hair and blue eyes who was butt ugly. I think so. So what makes blond hair and blue eyes “so fucking attractive”.

    Date who you want to date, but understand that the perception of the black male who only dates white women (and one who spends so many words talking and defending it), is usually spot on.

    • BeautifullyHuman

      “So what makes blond hair and blue eyes “so fucking attractive”.

      For him…who it’s normally associated with.

      • Jacqueline

        Bingo!

        • http://justfourguys.com Obsidian

          @Ms. Jacqueline:
          So, let me get this straight:

          Are you going to seriously, and with a straight face, argue with the notion that nerdy Black Men are at a SERIOUS disadvantage on the Black American mating market, due to the easily observalble FACT that Black WOmen DO NOT like nerdy, how did Ms. Dara put it, “Cornball Brothas”? She even used Robert Griffin III as a prima facia example.

          While this charge is often met with shrieks of denial by the Sistahood, it falls on deaf ears and rings rather hollow – it’s a matter of public record. Sistas, even those who are highly educated themselves, simply do not “heart” nedy, cornball Brothas. Personally, I think that’s perfectly OK, as I believe that Black Women, like all Women, can and should, desire and NOT desire, anything about anyone they darn well please.

          The problem I have with so many of them, is their denial and in more cases than many will openly admit, their outright malfeasence about it.

          O.

          • pls

            are you seriously suggesting a black guy nerds = cornball brotha?

            i know plenty of black nerds with swag. cornballs on the other hand are just annoying. they are not one in the same.

            you are all up and through these comments with whatever insecurities you’re harboring and blaming bw, just like the writer of that wack essay.

            • http://justfourguys.com Obsidian

              @Ms. Pls:
              ” are you seriously suggesting a black guy nerds = cornball brotha?”

              O: Are you seriously suggesting that there is NO correlation whatsover, between the two?

              “i know plenty of black nerds with swag. cornballs on the other hand are just annoying. they are not one in the same.”

              O: Hmm. OK, let’s try this:

              Would you have considered Paul Robeson “a nerd with swag”?

              Would you have considered WEB DuBois, “a nerd with swag”?

              If not, could you please give us all some very well known “nerds with swag”?

              “you are all up and through these comments with whatever insecurities you’re harboring and blaming bw, just like the writer of that wack essay.”

              O: Ah. So, by your statement, am I correct to assume that, whatever mating difficulties I may encounter, they all problems of my own making? That they have nothing whatsoever, to do with anyone else, but me?

              Is that your position?

              O.

              • pls

                correlation and causation/equality are different. period. you learn that in any basic statistics course

                I wouldn’t have considered DuBois a nerd period. I don’t know enough about him to determine whether or not he had swag back then.

                A very well known nerd with swag? don’t feel like it. I’ve dated a nerd who was not a cornball. most of the black guys i went to school with were nerds since i attended an engineering school. a couple were corny.

                and no, by my statement, which implies nothing more than what was actually written, says that you are very obviously insecure and you are blaming women for not liking “nerds,” when really you’re probably just as repulsive in real life as you are on the internet. maybe it’s just you…

            • http://www.BlackLatinaFabulous.com/ Maris

              He really is acting like 6’3′, 225 bags of corn do not exist. This is why I am not bothering today.

      • http://www.twitter.com/IluminatiNYC Todd

        And that may not necessarily be a bad thing based on his experiences. That first blonde haired, blue eyed girl could have been a sweetheart of a person who was nicer and more caring than anyone else that he’d ever met. That’s OK. Just own your rationale.

  • sweetbee

    Well, I shared my general feelings on this subject matter in general the last time (!) we discussed this. Black people spend an disproportionate amount of time on interracial dating in comparison to the actual numbers of people in IR’s. In fact you haven’t arrived as a (black) writer and/or artist until you have at least one piece on your perspective this issue.

    • http://trulytafakari.com/ dara

      dangit, that means I ain’t arrived yet. lol

      • sweetbee

        Sorry, but it’s a prerequisite.

        • http://trulytafakari.com/ dara

          :::goes to write her interracial love story about her favorite white boo:::

          • http://justfourguys.com Obsidian

            @Ms. SweetBee:
            I respectfully disagree; it is entirely possible to be successful as a Black writer and not have to write anything about IR pairings and the like. Ms. Dara has yet to hit her stride because she has yet to break away from the pack in any demonstrable sense of the word – while talened no doubt, she is in a highly saturated field – Black Women dominate the social media that is the Black Internet – and given that she writes from the perspective of a rather young married mother, the market isn’t particularly huge for such a thing (compare her to say, Ms. Demetria Lucas, who’s writing I find to be akin to enduring being waterboarded – nevetheless, she’s where she is, and Ms. Dara is still finding her way).

            If Ms. Dara were a Brotha – because, let’s face it, the pickings among Brothas Of Conscience are relatively few – it would be a different story. She’d still likely face opposition to being published in all the familiar channels of note on the Black Internet, largely because of it notcatering to what Black Women in the main, want to hear (I know quite a few highly successful Black male writers, and they ALL MUST Tell Sistas What They Want To Hear(TM) in order to keep the lights on), if she’s enterprising and willing to take a few risks – and I don’t get that sense from what I’ve been able to quietly observe about her writings and runnings online – she could carve out a nice niche for herself.

            As it is, she’s in a fairly tough spot. Not impossible, but definitely not a cakewalk either, given all of the above.

            It’s tough out there for a Sista writer who ain’t about the “Diva” life…

            O.

  • Rawtid

    “Let’s be real, blonde hair and blue eyes are fucking attractive”

    To suggest that blond hair and blue eyes are intrinsically ‘fucking attractive’ is so very telling. For me this statement completely proved that the entire premise of his words wasn’t really his truth. Perhaps what he hoped to believe of himself—but not the truth.

    • http://trulytafakari.com/ dara

      His statement was abrasive, but I didn’t see him as co-signing intrinsic attractiveness. As a general declarative statement, it’s subjectively true. I think what I reacted to in it was the fact that it needed to be said. But, what do i know? lol

      • Agatha Guilluame

        *Looks at Honey Boo boo’s family…looks at Dtafakari…shakes head*

        Subjectively true……….

        • http://trulytafakari.com/ dara

          He ain’t say that the people WITH blonde hair and blue eyes are attractive, but TOO SHAY, Agatha! lol

          • Rawtid

            that is essentially what he said. that blond hair and blue eyes = attractive. and Sweetbee’s example is exactly why i had an issue with the statement. Someone who is just attracted to all women wouldnt say that bc a particular feature isnt what makes her attractive. esp one that by in large belongs to one race. so thats why I am not buying the shit hes trying to sell–he’s exactly like this “other BM” he describes he just isn’t honest enough to admit it.

            • http://trulytafakari.com/ dara

              I get what ya’ll are saying, but I still kind of disagree. What we DO agree on is that the statement was a fail.

            • pls

              “Someone who is just attracted to all women wouldnt say that bc a particular feature isnt what makes her attractive. esp one that by in large belongs to one race. ”

              we are >>>>>>>>>here<<<<<<<<<

              i think he meant to say "let's be real…women are hot," but the fact that he had to specifically point out the worldwide known descriptors for yt revealed his true feelings. AND THAT'S FINE! lol

              he shoulda just wrote that instead of all the other excuses about why he never could turn the corner with any of the non-white women he's "been with."

        • sweetbee

          Right. Blond hair and blue eyes are fucking attractive on fucking attractive people. Ellen Degeneres has both traits but still doesn’t hold a candle looks wise to other blond and blue eyed celebrities like Christie Brinkley or Cameron Diaz. Hell, if Ellen looked like the late Paul Walker she’d be lucky.

          • Rawtid

            EXACTLY.

        • h.h.h.

          oh snap an aggy sighting!

      • blackphilo

        The statement in question is vacuous and embarrassingly (tellingly) reductionist. It doesn’t make a merely subjective claim, since it insists on drawing “us” into admitting a supposedly obvious truth via “Let’s be real.”

        There will be no deeper engagement about these themes with a person like this. He has inoculated himself against any probing discussion, let alone real introspection, by convincing himself of absurdities such as “I spend so little time thinking about the racial implications of relationships I’m in”–even as he’s writing longly on the subject. And he tells himself that any pushback he’s receiving must come from people who object to BM/WW relationships–as if none of us could be in such a relationship and still find his musings ridiculous.

        • http://trulytafakari.com/ dara

          fair enough lol

          • blackphilo

            Your other comments throughout are on point, though. LOL, indeed.

            I can’t even read that piece–only excerpts cited here–since I’d start feeling too embarrassed for him.

            • Agatha Guilluame

              I did read the whole thing…it was like medicine without any of the restorative effects…so more like poison?? I still had to up vote you though because I too felt embarrassed for him.

      • http://www.BlackLatinaFabulous.com/ Maris

        Betty White has blonde hair and blue eyes. Paula Deen has Blonde(ish) hair and blue eyes. Walter Mercado has blonde hair and blue eyes. He tryna tell me he’d f*ck ALLADEM?

        • http://trulytafakari.com/ dara

          He’s an equal opportunity lover, Maris.

        • esa

          Walter Mercado tho !!

      • pls

        an interesting comment on gawker suggested that the issue is that he can’t imagine someone NOT finding those features attractive, while most likely believing people do find features like coiled hair and dark eyes unattractive.

        i’m not wording it as good as she did, but idgt to find it in them comments! i agree, tho.

    • Agatha Guilluame

      His most telling statements were A) when he said he was attracted to all kinds of ethnicities and had been with all kinds of ethnicities only to be followed by a much later admission that he’d in fact only ever dated i.e. been in a relationship with white women. And B) when he said he checked for the women that checked for him they just so happened to be white…except…didn’t he admit to sleeping with all races…sooo….weren’t those other women objectively checking for him too???

      He made me tired.

      • Rawtid

        Girl yes!! i was like what the hell?!

      • BeautifullyHuman

        Many of the comments yesterday called the author out on his double-speak. Which is it? Is it one or the other, both, or neither?

        • Agatha Guilluame

          *Looks to Sway for the answers.*

          • BeautifullyHuman

            Lol

          • ED

            He ain’t got em

  • Agatha Guilluame

    So…Ernest was very active in the comments section of his post. He had to defend his “Let’s be real, blonde hair and blue eyes are fucking attractive” comment I guess. Except he only dug himself a bigger hole…this response to it was perfect.

    A snippet of Ernest Baker’s response The fact that my admission of being attracted to features predominately associated with white women is so problematic is very telling of how uncomfortable a lot of people still are with the notion of interracial dating.

    The reply from Chief Queef Oh come on. I’m mixed myself, I’m in an interracial marriage, and I obviously have zero problems with interracial dating. My issue is with your insistence that you’re some kind of special snowflake who isn’t like all the other racial fetishists out there, when you’re EXACTLY like them except slightly better at self-delusion. You have a fetish for white women, okay? It’s really fucking obvious. Don’t pretend the fact you only date them is a random accident (“theyjust like me better, it’s so weird!”) And don’t make unsubtle references to white hair or invoke tired “black women only like thugs” stereotypes while pretending you’re oh-so-enlightened and post-racial about your dating choices and it’s everyone else who’s so hung up on race. Date who you want, but stop pretending. You’re not fooling anyone.

    • NomadaNare

      This struck me as odd too. Again, especially as someone that “doesn’t think much about his GF’s race”.

      • http://trulytafakari.com/ dara

        Honestly, I think it may be a lose-lose to describe why you date along a particular race line and still mention racial features. lol.

  • Agatha Guilluame

    Another gem from the comments section.

    A great fucking question from Bloody Massacre
    How many different black men was this article written by?

    I like white women because I grew up in a very white suburb filled with white people. No, I went to a very black high school where all the black women wanted thugs and the white women were the only ones who would fuck with me.

    I date white women because I think blonde hair and blue eyes are hot. But it’s not like my idea of beauty was shaped by society, culture, and media messaging. But also, I prefer straight hair, light eyes and light skin.

    I’ve dated black girls. All my girlfriends have been white.

    My head is still spinning from this article.

    • sweetbee

      Yeah, like I said before, I was more curious about the response to the piece than the actual piece.

    • http://stanoffewwords.wordpress.com/ Tristan

      Salute you AG because because i refused to read it, ain’t nobody fuggin with my click, click, click, click

  • afronica

    *gets popcorn because this spot is poppin’*

    • Aly
      • http://trulytafakari.com/ dara

        hey ma!

        • Aly

          Hi Dara!

          • Yoles

            ((((((((HUGS)))))) Hi @Alyson_P:disqus !! & @dtafakari:disqus

            • Aly

              Yolie!! *hugs*

            • http://trulytafakari.com/ dara

              heeeeeeeeeeeeey!

      • afronica

        puuuurfect gif

  • Agatha Guilluame

    The comment winner of the day:

    rcb2

    I’m a caucasian brunette with brown eyes, and I definitely fall in the “you can’t help who you find attractive” group. However, when I date men of other races I have to be really careful I’m not a stepping stone to an “ultimate caucasian.”

    • http://trulytafakari.com/ dara

      Ultimate caucasian! LOLOLOL.

      • http://brown-c6h12o6.tumblr.com/ RubyWooWho

        LMAO

        It’s levels to this.

        • http://trulytafakari.com/ dara

          I’ll have you know that I’m abiding by your rules today. Tenuously. lol

          • http://brown-c6h12o6.tumblr.com/ RubyWooWho

            Yay! I’m abiding by mine as well.

    • afronica

      Now that’s an aware white chick. Hello!

    • http://www.twitter.com/IluminatiNYC Todd

      *smh*

    • http://stanoffewwords.wordpress.com/ Tristan

      Also light eyes is technically a deformity.

    • Lea Thrace

      Yo. “Ultimate caucasian” is such an awesome phrase. Must drop that into a couple of conversations this weekend with my white friends. Resulting reactions are sure to be fantastic!

  • Rachmo

    I read this article and was giving it a hard side eye. I wasn’t sure why there needed to be this long essay about something so “organic” but I’m sleep

    • Val

      Why are you always sleep though?

      *poor Rach. Gives her a cup of Blue Mountain coffee*

      :-)

      • Rachmo

        LMAO! Basic a$$ think pieces do it to me.