Pop Culture, Theory & Essay

Yeezus’s New Slave

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After making a few jump shots in a row, occasionally Lebron James will race down court the next time he gets the ball and shoot an uncontested 35 to 40 footer with 20 seconds left on the shot clock (watch from 0:29 to 0:59 here for an example). For those not familiar with basketball, doing this is the equivalent of approaching your manager to ask for a raise and your own parking spot, receiving both, and then approaching him later that day to ask for a blow job.

In basketball terminology this is known as a “heat check.” Basically, you’re doing something seemingly outrageous to test the limits of how far your “hot” streak will go.

This idea isn’t limited to basketball. Pop culture is filled with popular artists heat-checking themselves, and Erykah Badu’s Window Seat vid is another example of that.

While many have lauded this as ultra-creative, paradigm shifting, envelope pushing, and iconoclastic, personally, I just think it’s her way of saying “I’m Erykah f*cking Badu. I have millions of die-hard fans, I single-handedly made a jersey-rocking rapper from Atlanta start dressing like a drag-queen mannequin at an H&M fashion show, and I have a fat ass. I’m bored, I can do whatever the hell I want, and my fans will still love me. Creative schmeative“

I wrote this three years ago, as the beginning to a post about Erykah Badu’s Window Seat video. Aside from adding my own interpretation of Badu’s motives for creating this video, I somewhat condescendingly imply that her diehard fans are incapable of being objective when assessing her work.

I felt the same way while attending an event at the Andy Warhol Museum last weekend. That Warhol was a visionary deserving of all lauds and accolades is undeniable. But, the visit just reinforced the fact that when certain people reach a certain stature, anything they do is accepted as genius, including some things that garner “Wows” when they should be receiving a chorus of “WTFs.”

I guess you can argue that status is earned. If a newly found, ketchup-stained napkin with Warhol’s signature on it is able to command 1.6 million dollars at an auction, this says more about the transcendent force of Warhol’s talent that anything else. His resume allows him to receive the benefit of the doubt.

But, the person actually making that purchase allows himself to be gamed by a person’s name instead of making an honest assessment of the actual product. And, not only are they lying to themselves, they perform the worst type of self-delusion—one where a person is completely aware of the lie they’re telling themselves, but they’re completely sold on selling it to themselves anyway. They’ve fully bought in to the bullshit, and when you buy bullshit that you literally saw drop out of a cow’s ass, you have no integrity. You make yourself a slave to a person instead of what that person creates and/or what they represent.

Anyway, I downloaded Kanye West’s Yeezus Friday, and have listened to it approximately 10 times since. It is an incoherent, jumbled, rhythm-adverse, pretentious, pseudo-intellectual, racist, and misogynistic mess. It may very well be the first major label hip-hop album that caused listeners actual physical pain while listening to it.

I’m also in love with it.

The irony isn’t lost on me.

—Damon Young (aka “The Champ”)

Damon Young

Damon Young is the editor-in-chief of VSB. He is also a contributing editor for EBONY.com. He resides in Pittsburgh, and he really likes pancakes.

  • nillalatte

    FIRST to post on the new week for comments. :) As for Kanye’s new album… I’ll go now and check it out. Only saw his face on the side of buildings when it came out.

    Wait. The article I’m reading says it is due out on June 18. I’m confused.

    • AnonyChick

      The official release date is June 18, but it leaked over the weekend.

    • Bunni

      …….I think I may enjoy this new comment section….Liz must’ve come and laid hands on it!!

    • SweetSass

      Except that first comments are no longer at the top of page necessarily. Soooo…. we gotta take your word for it.

      • Yoles

        once you refresh the first comment goes back to the top and comments are placed in chronological order… but when scanning the page you can see the new comments in real time… i love it

        • http://wildcougarconfessions.com Wild Cougar

          I am literally in love with this comment system. Long comments get shortened and the voting…….

          • SweetSass

            Democracy is a beautiful thing.

            • Obsidian Files

              And Hitler was democratically elected into office…1938. I’m just sayin’…

              O.

          • SweetSass

            Democracy is a beautiful thing.

          • http://lizburr.com Liz

            damn I didn’t even realize the long winded comments get shortened!! awesome!!!

          • http://lizburr.com Liz

            damn I didn’t even realize the long winded comments get shortened!! awesome!!!

    • panamajackson

      Official release dates are a thing of the past. step up gangsta. revisit your criminal past and pirate an album.

  • Maris

    It’s ok, you’re not alone. Prince could take a literal dump on an album and go platinum. Also, every album after”crazy in love”. **runs**

    • Todd

      I love Prince, and you’re right. What are you talking about in terms of “Crazy in Love”? I’m confused.

    • Bunni

      Agreed…we all have one artist that we allow unlimited creative freedom, but we know that some of that stuff is a hot mess….and yes, majority of what Bey has put out since she started rocking onesies has not reached the level of work we know shes capable of…

      • http://twitter.com/ktemjin Kaname

        So every album after B-Day?

        • Bunni

          Pretty much. Bday was new and awesome, then she took that formula and repeated it for the rest of her albums. The pseudo girl power dancing with my homegirls mess…it was fun the first time, now its just predictable….shes a ballad singer, I want her to stick to that

          • WIP

            I actually like her better with fewer ballads. I enjoy country, dancing Beyonce. I can relate.

      • http://missrosen.wordpress.com/ esa

        ~ Agreed…we all have one artist that we allow unlimited creative freedom

        you’re only as good as your weakest ishh. i tell people this all the time when we’re editing books. it’s like making the perfect album. that one track everyone hates? yeaa, that. i dont care for indulgence in the final product. ~because~ it is for sale. if you respect your audience, give them top tier work.

        unlimited creativity is great, behind the scenes. after you dead, they be scratching through your studio looking for clues ..

      • http://missrosen.wordpress.com/ esa

        ~ Agreed…we all have one artist that we allow unlimited creative freedom

        you’re only as good as your weakest ishh. i tell people this all the time when we’re editing books. it’s like making the perfect album. that one track everyone hates? yeaa, that. i dont care for indulgence in the final product. ~because~ it is for sale. if you respect your audience, give them top tier work.

        unlimited creativity is great, behind the scenes. after you dead, they be scratching through your studio looking for clues ..

    • SweetSass

      Yes. Prince could release an album of him breathing heavy and moaning for 90 minutes and I’m sure it would go platinum.

      • http://wildcougarconfessions.com Wild Cougar

        The difference is that Prince has real talent. Kanye ran out of material and is coasting on fumes

        • Madlark

          Prince is Prince. That’s not a reasonable scale to use as far as measuring if some has talent. That’s like saying if someone isn’t as good as Elgin Baylor they aren’t good at basketball.

          • JhaneSez

            I think you hit on something… I think that the artist that we are discussing can’t really be compared to other artist that the comparison can only be to their work during particular periods, because their talents are so unique and specific ~JS

        • SweetSass

          I think there is an element of hero worship once you get to a certain level of fame. That people will stan for you no matter what you do.

        • panamajackson

          I don’t know if I agree with Kanye running out of material. I think he’s just getting overly self indulgent. Prince has had has moments.

          • 321mena123

            If you looked in the dictionary for the term “whiny b!tch”, Kayne’s face would be right beside it. He is great at his craft but it’s his whining that gets to me. I have never seen an artist cry foul at everything. He’s like the kid in school who didn’t get their way but the teacher made everyone be nice to them so that the kid wouldn’t feel left out which only made the kid feel even more entitled.

    • http://www.WordsDontDoItJustice.com/ Ruthless Wonder

      I’m pretty sure Prince WAS just playing with instruments and old NPG vocals during the 90’s. How else do you explain all the Symbol albums that were released or performed somewhere and not released?

      • JhaneSez

        I have over 1800 prince files on a hard drive I keep in a fire protected case… but I can stop any time I want to ~JS

        • http://www.WordsDontDoItJustice.com/ Ruthless Wonder

          I’m probably near that as well. And the vinyls are in a separate fire safe with a combination only I or Prince himself could figure out. But some of those tracks should never have left his studio. I shudder at what he’s never let anyone hear.

        • http://www.WordsDontDoItJustice.com/ Ruthless Wonder

          I’m probably near that as well. And the vinyls are in a separate fire safe with a combination only I or Prince himself could figure out. But some of those tracks should never have left his studio. I shudder at what he’s never let anyone hear.

          • JhaneSez

            ^^This… I have that thought all the time… like who is he leaving his catalog to in his will because it must be mind boggling…

            People don’t understand that being a Prince fan has little to do with commercial studio albums… like I have a track of Prince performing The Ballad of Dorothy Parker on the Tonight Show… not impressed its the studio rehearsal track with Branford Marsalis on sax and Prince on piano and nothing else

            That’s what my heaven sounds like ~JS

          • JhaneSez

            ^^This… I have that thought all the time… like who is he leaving his catalog to in his will because it must be mind boggling…

            People don’t understand that being a Prince fan has little to do with commercial studio albums… like I have a track of Prince performing The Ballad of Dorothy Parker on the Tonight Show… not impressed its the studio rehearsal track with Branford Marsalis on sax and Prince on piano and nothing else

            That’s what my heaven sounds like ~JS

      • JhaneSez

        I have over 1800 prince files on a hard drive I keep in a fire protected case… but I can stop any time I want to ~JS

    • Kema

      *waves* hey Maris!

      • Maris

        Haaayyyy grrrrrlllll!!! LOL

      • Maris

        Haaayyyy grrrrrlllll!!! LOL

  • AnonyChick

    #BornSinner #ColeWorld Same release date as ‘Yeezus’–just had to plug that!

    • AfroPetite

      I am in love with Born Sinner and have been giving a strong middle digit to those who continue to call his work boring. I predict it’ll be the most underrated rap album of the summer but that’s fine :-)

    • panamajackson

      I still don’t get the J.Cole hype. I listened to that album once. Over it.

      • JhaneSez

        Come on fam… not even I let Nas down… really ~JS

      • JhaneSez

        Come on fam… not even I let Nas down… really ~JS

  • Jocquia

    Yeah im a Yeezy Stan. He makes an album, im gonna buy it and im gonna love it. Period. Lord help me.

    • Bunni

      Yeah, I’ve heard some mixed reviews on this album…..but 808’s had the same reaction, and I loved it. Im a Yeezus stan tho, so I’m hardly objective. I know for a fact that I would buy an album with 13 tracks of Yeezus farts. Meh, such is life.

      • Jocquia

        I listened to it last night and I really enjoy half it and the other half, not so much but I dont hate the songs….lol Blood on the Leaves, Bound 2 and Guilt trip! Fire!

        • Bunni

          I was really trying to be a good christian woman and wait for it to legitimately drop, pay my $14.99 and whatnot, cuzzzz ya know he needs the money for his new baby girl….but the temptation is strong!! lol

      • panamajackson

        808s sounds like MBDTF compared to this joint.

  • Obsidian Files

    “I am Spartacus…”

    Good morning Champ, everyone,

    While I recognize all of the talents of Ms. Badu, Mr. James and Mr. West, I don’t consider myself hugely wrapped up with their comings and goings; I have much bigger fish to fry, so to speak.

    And that leads me to my commentary for the day:

    Last week, before the Big Comment Change took place here at VSB, I made the case that Black Men Dads were being systematically railroaded, scapegoated and thrown under the bus, by none other than our 44th POTUS – himself the latest link in a long chain of such recriminations, hateration and real legal sanctions, with the aid of a truly groundbreaking study, “Doing The Best I Can”, written by two White sociologists, husband and wife team Kathryn Edin and Tim Nelson (and YES, I am 100% sure no Afrosphere degree holders gave a toss about doing anything close; I defy anyone here to prove me wrong). That discussion proved most fruitful; even my biggest detractors, couldn’t deny the veracity of my arguments and the unassailable nature of its implications – as is per usual with yours truly.

    Today, we pick up where we left off in that discussion, with the following recent headline appearing on the New York Times website:

    Is Forced Fatherhood Fair?

    http://opinionator.blogs.nytimes.com/2013/06/12/is-forced-fatherhood-fair/

    The author of this article, one Prof. Laurie Shrage of Florida International University, sets the stage with the following quote:

    “Women’s rights advocates have long struggled for motherhood to be a voluntary condition, and not one imposed by nature or culture. In places where women and girls have access to affordable and safe contraception and abortion services, and where there are programs to assist mothers in distress find foster or adoptive parents, voluntary motherhood is basically a reality. In many states, infant safe haven laws allow a birth mother to walk away from her newborn baby if she leaves it unharmed at a designated facility.”

    Indeed!-and not only is this 100% the case, but the very Women – which includes Black Feminists as well – seem quite content to keep Men shackled to the 19th century when it comes to their own reproductive rights and to the time and circumstances under which, if ever, they are to become parents. Women, thou name art Hypocrites.

    Quite a few discussions have taken place right here in this forum along these lines, and the general consensus – a paltry few intrepid Merit Women notwithstanding – is quite clear. VSS’ in the main are fully cool with controlling Black Male sexuality.

    There, I said it.

    And so has Prof. Shrage:

    “Feminists have long held that women should not be penalized for being sexually active by taking away their options when an accidental pregnancy occurs. Do our policies now aim to punish and shame men for their sexual promiscuity? Many of my male students (in Miami where I teach), who come from low-income immigrant communities, believe that our punitive paternity policies are aimed at controlling their sexual behavior. Moreover, the asymmetrical options that men and women now have when dealing with an unplanned pregnancy set up power imbalances in their sexual relationships that my male students find hugely unfair to them. Rather than punish men (or women) for their apparent reproductive irresponsibility by coercing legal paternity (or maternity), the government has other options, such as mandatory sex education, family planning counseling, or community service.”

    Boom!-there really is no other way to say it – is it? I mean, when one just takes a step back and looks at the wide angle view – the nonstop, full court press to end Rape and its various iterations (marital rape, date rape, etc et al); the sustained railings against street harassment (itself an extension of sexual harassment of the early 1990s); the shrieking in disgust over the Nice Guy(TM) phenomenon; the near-mutiny over the Pickup Artists community; the top-down persecution of poor/inner city/Dads of Color; and now the fullscale assault on Male Reproductive Rights in the form of a full-on stonewalling of Roe For Men – all up to one unmistakable conclusion:

    That Feminists, both Black and White in particular, and Women in general, DO want to control and regulate, Male sexual behavior – in this case and for purposes of this forum, Black Male sexual behavior.

    There’s just no getting around that fact.

    Luckily – and perhaps a bit ironically – things are beginning to change on this front, in small part due to White Feminists, like Prof. Shrage (and Prof. Edin above), who’ve begun to see the utter banality and absurdity of this Feminist Progrom against Men, in this case, Men of Color and Black Men specifically. We, have been made the whipping boy in the ongoing Battle of the Sexes – cannon fodder for pandering politicians with a personal axe to grind, like Pres. Obama, and the national bogeyman with out of control lusts. It is demeaning. It is unjust. And if the shoe were on the other foot, for a nanosecond, it would be rightly derided as a War on Women, just like what happened during last year’s elections, with the “legitimate rape” comment – oh, wait…

    I post this in the spirit of educating my Brothas; and I put a call out to all Sistas of Good Will: stand up with us. Stand up for your own brothers. Stand up for your own sons. Stand up for your own dads.

    Stand. Up.

    Now adjourn your arses…

    O.

    • panamajackson

      What in the entire hell?

      • Obsidian Files

        @panamajackson:disqus:
        LOL, not quite. Just following up on a recent discussion, is all. The NYT piece IS interesting reading…

        O.

        • Yoles

          see Obie… when one of the owners and proprietors of a site respond to you like this, maybe this a sign that your consistent thread jacking (yes others do it too but, you must admit yours are the longest and your topics are typically along the same vein. others thread jack on a day by day basis with something brought up in comments and piggybacked until a completely off hand topic is reached OR someone apologies and thread jacks… from what I have seen you do neither…) may not be received as well as someone else’s. I do not argue with you but it is tiring to see that although you have your own blog or two (like many others over here) you place entire blog posts on this board (in addition to your own or instead of, i am not sure) and expect people to like it.

          • Obsidian Files

            @Ms. Yoles,
            I have never wanted, or expected, anyone to “like” what I say; moreover, I have seen, both here and elsewhere, topics come out of nowhere that had nothing to do with the original topic itself, just take a life of their own – so much so that I done lost count. And again, hey, I’m cool with it; just pointing it out because again, I am not unique in that regard.

            Most of the time I AM directly responding to the topic under discussion; that’s the thing that gets missed here. And I manage to do it without insulting others by cursing them out, or by making thinly veiled speculations of a s*xual nature, about their body parts.

            I like to discuss ideas with others, and that would be true whether I had one blog, or a thousand, or none at all; sharpening ideas, is how we get better at being better thinkers. Better thinking leads to better action. Better action leads to better outcomes. Better outcomes leads to the world being a better place. And excuse me if I think that I would never have thought I would live to see the day when such a thing, would be considered a bad one.

            O.

          • Obsidian Files

            @Ms. Yoles,
            I have never wanted, or expected, anyone to “like” what I say; moreover, I have seen, both here and elsewhere, topics come out of nowhere that had nothing to do with the original topic itself, just take a life of their own – so much so that I done lost count. And again, hey, I’m cool with it; just pointing it out because again, I am not unique in that regard.

            Most of the time I AM directly responding to the topic under discussion; that’s the thing that gets missed here. And I manage to do it without insulting others by cursing them out, or by making thinly veiled speculations of a s*xual nature, about their body parts.

            I like to discuss ideas with others, and that would be true whether I had one blog, or a thousand, or none at all; sharpening ideas, is how we get better at being better thinkers. Better thinking leads to better action. Better action leads to better outcomes. Better outcomes leads to the world being a better place. And excuse me if I think that I would never have thought I would live to see the day when such a thing, would be considered a bad one.

            O.

  • Madlark

    Really? I actually found Yeezus to be pretty boring aside from Bound and Blood on the Leaves. At least with 808s there could be some sort of firey discussion on the album. This is just like “eh”. Now though I’m really interested in hearing Jay’s new album. Even moreso than all my pretentious backpacker albums that have been announced.

    • Todd

      Jay-Z has a new album coming out? Oh, and thanks for the name check on The Stuyvesants’ album. I’ve been listening all weekend.

      • Madlark

        Yeah. Drops 4th of July. It was announced during the game 5 last night. Magna Carta Holy Grail.

        • dtafakari

          “announced” is such a kind word for it. it was blazoned, really. -_-

          • SweetSass

            He got a paycheck from Samsung to announce his damn album. That is pretty bawse.

            • Epsilonicus

              I wish I could get paid to do something I was already gonna do anyway…

    • Bunni

      Im on the fence about my excitement about Jay’s release….I think he has become very lazy in his lyricism…..I mean, but so has Kanye. *hypocritical sigh*

    • Obsidian Files

      Malik:
      Man, I didn’t care for 808s & Heartbreak at all. His “dropout” series remains his best work to date, as far as I’m concerned…

      O.

    • panamajackson

      Me too bro. I’m so over this album.

  • Ani-Q

    Its the most interesting album I have heard in a while. The arrangements of like 10 different genres sometimes all mixed into one song is just…..I am still mind fcuked. Loving the dancehall influence, not so much the techno/house music. Not too sure about the lyrical content at this point but the beats had me at hello. Cant wait to see the videos and other live performances.

  • NomadaNare

    I don’t think I’m West’s intended audience, nor have I been since the college trilogy. Does anyone know who his audience is anymore? Also is anyone as creeped out about the Xbox One + PRISM + drone strikes as I am?

    • Obsidian Files

      @Nomadanare:

      While we wait for my commentary to appear, I thought we might pickup where we left off last Friday…

      Look, I think we need to see if we can clarify exactly where and why we disagree. So, I’m going to go on ahead first, OK?

      My position is simple: I am taking it upon myself to meet the dating and mating needs of Brothas. I am doing this because no one seems to care. The Afrosphere is rife with all manner of experts and the like, virtually 95%+ of them geared toward Black Women. Whether they are in fact helpful or not, is irrelevant; the sheer volume of them is what matters here. And there is virtually nothing, again, to help with the Brothas.

      My primary methods of achieving this aim, is via the insights I have gleaned by way of Evolutionary Psychology, and the Game skills upon which it is based. Unlike the kinds of hood-street level Game, the kind of Game I am discussing is one that demands rigorous study and dilligent application. It truly is, a discipline unto itself.

      Now, I know that you have considerable problems, with EvoPsych, with Game, and with me, and I can respect all of that. This is a free country after all, and you are well within your right to dislike anyone or anything for any reason you wish. Coolbeans.

      But, given our recent discussion a little while back, I am not seeing what you would recommend that would better along the aims and lines I have demarcated. Merely “being yourself” or “someone will find you attractive one day” isn’t gonna cut it. That’s why I love Game so much, you see – it is very pointed, specific, and step by step. Swept away are idealistic cliches, and pithy platitudes. In their place are concrete steps and actions, based on rigorous scientific study and theory, that WORKS. And this is what Brothas need MORE of, not less – rigorous study, for its own sake, as well as to solve adaptive problems – in this case, that of how to get the mating opportunities they desire. There is nothing inherently wrong with this goal, aim or desire, Nomada – and if you think it is, I would be more than welcome in hearing precisely what you think it is.

      OK, I’ll hold here. Holla back

      O.

      • NomadaNare

        O,

        I don’t know if you read my comment from friday, but let me reiterate it here because it seems like you missed it.

        [I have already presented you with a good enough reason not to spend
        time reading the books you claim support your point: they’re biased.
        They will frame the underlying science in such a way that it will appear
        to have already been decided and gloss over the points of weakness. I
        tried to make an agreement with you that if you would spend time backing
        up your opinions with citations from journals, conference papers, etc.
        I’d read the books you cited. If you can’t be bothered to do what I ask
        of you in terms of referring to the science for whatever reason, why
        should I waste time doing what you ask in reading books I already know
        don’t give an accurate summary of the subject we’re discussing? I keep
        stressing that there’s a problem with the science that you cite, either
        in that it’s faulty or that you’re misinterpreting it so I continue to
        suggest that we look at the smallest possible unit of accepted
        scientific knowledge to get an accurate understanding of the science
        your arguments are dependent upon. For someone that claims to be
        interested in the truth, you don’t actually seem interested in pursuing
        the truth of the books you cite to make your points. As for the last
        part of your paragraph, I’d appreciate it if you didn’t try to associate
        with me with your pathetically negative stereotypical views of educated
        black people. Are you really going to imply that the guy prompting you
        to cite peer-reviewed journals doesn’t read? You and I both know that’s
        disingenuous, insulting, nonsense. Careful now, your insecurities are
        showing.

        As for Thursday’s discussion, h.h.h. cited some papers in support of
        your argument. They were: Thornhill and Gangestad (1999), Sasse G,
        Müller H, Chakraborty R, Ott J (1994), Macintyre and Sooman (1991),
        Cerda-Flores RM, Barton SA, Marty-Gonzalez LF, Rivas F, Chakraborty R
        (1999). There’s one more but I can’t remember it right now. Anyway, I
        didn’t feel that the papers supported the statement you made Thursday. I
        would prefer that you cite your own, but we’ve already seen that this
        isn’t going to happen.]

        In brief response to your statement today, you seem to think I have a problem with you. If I didn’t like you, I wouldn’t even take the time to respond because I don’t interact with people I don’t like. All disagreements aside, first and foremost, you are a brother of mine and just because we disagree on effective techniques of wooing women doesn’t mean that if I was in a position to help you, I wouldn’t, so let’s take personal matters out of the equation. Second, I feel we probably have very similar experiences with women and otherwise, but I believe we differ in our responses to dealing with them. I wasn’t always as confident as I am now and as a a result I was not successful with women. Through years of personal reflection and pain staking self-improvement I was able to greatly increase my success without using ‘Game’ or PUA tactics, but simply by becoming more personable and actually engaging them as people and not objects to be conquered. As you have correctly intuited, I do have a problem with ‘Game’ and ‘PUA’ because it presents itself as a solution for deep problems concerning men’s affections for women that come as a result of male privilege without actually addressing male privilege and its ridiculous effects. What’s even worse about it is that ityou claims to use SCIENZE (which to you for some reason means it’s somehow impervious to criticism) which is the the last and most fortified bastion of white-supremacy and male-patriarchy. My chief argument with you has always been that if you want to claim that something is truly backed up by science then please go ahead and demonstrate the connection, instead of always referring to how iron clad the whole thing is. Seriously, make your case with actual science, and then we can move from there.

        NN

      • NomadaNare

        O,

        I don’t know if you read my comment from friday, but let me reiterate it here because it seems like you missed it.

        [I have already presented you with a good enough reason not to spend
        time reading the books you claim support your point: they’re biased.
        They will frame the underlying science in such a way that it will appear
        to have already been decided and gloss over the points of weakness. I
        tried to make an agreement with you that if you would spend time backing
        up your opinions with citations from journals, conference papers, etc.
        I’d read the books you cited. If you can’t be bothered to do what I ask
        of you in terms of referring to the science for whatever reason, why
        should I waste time doing what you ask in reading books I already know
        don’t give an accurate summary of the subject we’re discussing? I keep
        stressing that there’s a problem with the science that you cite, either
        in that it’s faulty or that you’re misinterpreting it so I continue to
        suggest that we look at the smallest possible unit of accepted
        scientific knowledge to get an accurate understanding of the science
        your arguments are dependent upon. For someone that claims to be
        interested in the truth, you don’t actually seem interested in pursuing
        the truth of the books you cite to make your points. As for the last
        part of your paragraph, I’d appreciate it if you didn’t try to associate
        with me with your pathetically negative stereotypical views of educated
        black people. Are you really going to imply that the guy prompting you
        to cite peer-reviewed journals doesn’t read? You and I both know that’s
        disingenuous, insulting, nonsense. Careful now, your insecurities are
        showing.

        As for Thursday’s discussion, h.h.h. cited some papers in support of
        your argument. They were: Thornhill and Gangestad (1999), Sasse G,
        Müller H, Chakraborty R, Ott J (1994), Macintyre and Sooman (1991),
        Cerda-Flores RM, Barton SA, Marty-Gonzalez LF, Rivas F, Chakraborty R
        (1999). There’s one more but I can’t remember it right now. Anyway, I
        didn’t feel that the papers supported the statement you made Thursday. I
        would prefer that you cite your own, but we’ve already seen that this
        isn’t going to happen.]

        In brief response to your statement today, you seem to think I have a problem with you. If I didn’t like you, I wouldn’t even take the time to respond because I don’t interact with people I don’t like. All disagreements aside, first and foremost, you are a brother of mine and just because we disagree on effective techniques of wooing women doesn’t mean that if I was in a position to help you, I wouldn’t, so let’s take personal matters out of the equation. Second, I feel we probably have very similar experiences with women and otherwise, but I believe we differ in our responses to dealing with them. I wasn’t always as confident as I am now and as a a result I was not successful with women. Through years of personal reflection and pain staking self-improvement I was able to greatly increase my success without using ‘Game’ or PUA tactics, but simply by becoming more personable and actually engaging them as people and not objects to be conquered. As you have correctly intuited, I do have a problem with ‘Game’ and ‘PUA’ because it presents itself as a solution for deep problems concerning men’s affections for women that come as a result of male privilege without actually addressing male privilege and its ridiculous effects. What’s even worse about it is that ityou claims to use SCIENZE (which to you for some reason means it’s somehow impervious to criticism) which is the the last and most fortified bastion of white-supremacy and male-patriarchy. My chief argument with you has always been that if you want to claim that something is truly backed up by science then please go ahead and demonstrate the connection, instead of always referring to how iron clad the whole thing is. Seriously, make your case with actual science, and then we can move from there.

        NN

    • SweetSass

      @nomadanare:disqus, I think this PRISM thing is troubling… but it was just as troubling in 2005 when the Patriot Act (Section 215) authorized it.

      We should’ve had more of these gasps of indignation. Now they have the infrastructure and they will never let it go.

      Also, as a person of color… they’ve been curtailing our civil rights since the inception of the country. The people most upset about this (white people of privilege) are the least likely to be victims of the abuses of data gathering. Irony.

    • SweetSass

      @nomadanare:disqus, I think this PRISM thing is troubling… but it was just as troubling in 2005 when the Patriot Act (Section 215) authorized it.

      We should’ve had more of these gasps of indignation. Now they have the infrastructure and they will never let it go.

      Also, as a person of color… they’ve been curtailing our civil rights since the inception of the country. The people most upset about this (white people of privilege) are the least likely to be victims of the abuses of data gathering. Irony.

  • kidvideo

    “But, the person actually making that purchase allows himself to be gamed by a person’s name instead of making an honest assessment of the actual product. And, not only are they lying to themselves, they perform the worst type of self-delusion—one where a person is completely aware of the lie they’re telling themselves, but they’re completely sold on selling it to themselves anyway”.

    I feel this way about ppl who buy lil wayne albums…
    But im coppin’ that Yeezus on Johnny Kemp’s favorite day.

  • Obsidian Files

    “I am Spartacus…”

    Good morning Champ, everyone,

    While I recognize all of the talents of Ms. Badu, Mr. James and Mr. West, I don’t consider myself hugely wrapped up with their comings and goings; I have much bigger fish to fry, so to speak.

    And that leads me to my commentary for the day:

    Last week, before the Big Comment Change took place here at VSB, I made the case that Black Men Dads were being systematically railroaded, scapegoated and thrown under the bus, by none other than our 44th POTUS – himself the latest link in a long chain of such recriminations, hateration and real legal sanctions, with the aid of a truly groundbreaking study, “Doing The Best I Can”, written by two White sociologists, husban and wife team Kathryn Edin and Tim Nelson (and YES, I am 100% sure no Afrosphere degree holders gave a toss about doing anything close; I defy anyone here to prove me wrong). That discussion proved most fruitful; even my biggest detractors, couldn’t deny the veracity of my arguments and the unassailable nature of its implications.

    Today, we pick up where we left off in that discussion, with the following recent headline appearing on the New York Times website:

    Is Forced Fatherhood Fair?

    http://opinionator.blogs.nytimes.com/2013/06/12/is-forced-fatherhood-fair/

    The author of this article, one Prof. Laurie Shrage of Florida International University, sets the stage with the following quote:

    “Women’s rights advocates have long struggled for motherhood to be a voluntary condition, and not one imposed by nature or culture. In places where women and girls have access to affordable and safe contraception and abortion services, and where there are programs to assist mothers in distress find foster or adoptive parents, voluntary motherhood is basically a reality. In many states, infant safe haven laws allow a birth mother to walk away from her newborn baby if she leaves it unharmed at a designated facility.”

    Indeed!-and not only is this 100% the case, but the very Women – which includes Black Feminists as well – seem quite content to keep Men shackled to the 19th century when it comes to their own reproductive rights and to the time and circumstances under which, if ever, they are to become parents.

    Quite a few discussions have taken place right here in this forum along these lines, and the general consensus – a paltry few intrepid Merit Women notwithstanding – is quite clear. VSS’ in the main are fully cool with controlling Black Male sexuality.

    There, I said it.

    And so has Prof. Shrage:

    “Feminists have long held that women should not be penalized for being sexually active by taking away their options when an accidental pregnancy occurs. Do our policies now aim to punish and shame men for their sexual promiscuity? Many of my male students (in Miami where I teach), who come from low-income immigrant communities, believe that our punitive paternity policies are aimed at controlling their sexual behavior. Moreover, the asymmetrical options that men and women now have when dealing with an unplanned pregnancy set up power imbalances in their sexual relationships that my male students find hugely unfair to them. Rather than punish men (or women) for their apparent reproductive irresponsibility by coercing legal paternity (or maternity), the government has other options, such as mandatory sex education, family planning counseling, or community service.”

    Boom!-there really is no other way to say it – is it? I mean, when one just takes a step back and looks at the wide angle view – the nonstop, full court press to end Rape and its various iterations (marital rape, date rape, etc et al); the sustained railings against street harassment (itself an extension of sexual harassment of the early 1990s); the shrieking in disgust over the Nice Guy(TM) phenomenon; the near-mutiny over the Pickup Artists community; the top-down persecution of poor/inner city/Dads of Color; and now the fullscale assault on Male Reproductive Rights in the form of a full-on stonewalling of Roe For Men – all up to one unmistakable conclusion:

    That Feminists, both Black and White in particular, and Women in general, DO want to control and regulate, Male sexual behavior – in this case and for purposes of this forum, Black Male sexual behavior.

    There’s just no getting around that fact.

    Luckily – and perhaps a bit ironically – things are beginning to change on this front, in small part due to White Feminists, like Prof. Shrage (and Prof. Edin above), who’ve begun to see the utter banality and absurdity of this Feminist Progrom against Men, in this case, Men of Color and Black Men specifically. We, have been made the whipping boy in the ongoing Battle of the Sexes – cannon fodder for pandering politicians with a personal axe to grind, like Pres. Obama, and the national bogeyman with out of control lusts. It is demeaning. It is unjust. And if the shoe were on the other foot, for a nanosecond, it would be rightly derided as a War on Women, just like what happened during last year’s elections, with the “legitimate rape” comment – oh, wait…

    I post this in the spirit of educating my Brothas; and I put a call out to all Sistas of Good Will: stand up with us. Stand up for your own brothers. Stand up for your own sons. Stand up for your own dads.

    Stand. Up.

    Now adjourn your arses…

    O.

    • Obsidian Files

      Whew, this commenting system takes some getting used to! My bad and apologies to everyone for the double posting here…

      :(

      O.

      • h.h.h.

        “Whew, this commenting system takes some getting used to! My bad and apologies to everyone for the double posting here…”

        now if only you’d apologize for posting treatises then we’d be getting somewhere….

        ahhh a jester can only dream

        • Kema

          But now we can only see part of it and can choose whether we wantto see the rrest.Goodstuff!

        • Kema

          But now we can only see part of it and can choose whether we wantto see the rrest.Goodstuff!

        • Obsidian Files

          Actually Triple H, if you consider the fact that many threads here and elsewhere can go o lengths streatching many hundreds of comments, if you took some of the most frequent commenters and just tallied up their total words used in those threads, I would wager a princely sum that they would rival my own in terms of just sheer word count; the only difference in my case is that its “concentrated”, LOL…

          O.

          • h.h.h.

            nah. lol

            i know for me, when i’m in wiseguy mode i at least 20-25 posts to equal your usual output, and when i’m actually being thoughtful, i still write 60% less than you.

            quite the interesting scientific specimen you are

    • Obsidian Files

      Hmm, I see the Down Vote Haters are out in full force, LOL. I love it! They can’t win on the arguments, so they have to “win” on their appeal to the Mob.

      Cowards…

      :P

      O.

      • AfroPetite

        I wish I could actually take credit for all these down votes but I actually only disliked one of your comments thus far…

        Matter of fact, I actually liked one too. Don’t let the haters get you down Grandpa Obsidian.

        • Obsidian Files

          Never fear, my darling; their cowardice is like blood in the water to me…

          *shark fin emerges*

          O.

          • Vanity in Peril

            I’m not a lurker but I down-voted you because you “jack threads” and I think it’s rude. I find you to be highly intelligent but you (and I in no way “know” you) appear to lack empathy and critical-thinking skills and irony seems to go over your head at times. It’s weird because you are opinionated and we live in the same city so I should enjoy you but I really don’t.TBH you are the reason I’ve stopped reading this blog on a daily basis (and I have been reading this blog since 2010) Your insistence on derailing and making every topic about how much black men are under attack (which of course you are but holy mother of God the post topic was about Kanye West) shitz in my Cheerios and I mostly just ignore you which costs me $0.00 so maybe I’ll just stop complaining and say: It’s a free country so do as you please and by all means hit your “thread-jackin” dougie.

            • Obsidian Files

              @Ms. Vanity:

              “I’m not a lurker but I down-voted you because you “jack threads” and I think it’s rude.”

              O: Well! An intrepid lady. Confession, truly is good for soul, isn’t it?

              “I find you to be highly intelligent”

              O: Thank you! Mom and dad would be proud.

              “but you (and I in no way “know” you)”

              O: No, you do not…

              “appear to lack empathy and critical-thinking skills and irony seems to go over your head at times.”

              O: Oh, I “get” irony just fine; I’m just not moved by others when they attempt to foist it on me. As for “critical thinking skills”, that’s odd, someone who actually does know me well said she thought I was among the keenest of the bunch in that regard – she ought to know, given her educational background…

              Oh, and “empathy” is overrated – for reasons that I make clear below…

              “It’s weird because you are opinionated and we live in the same city so I should enjoy you but I really don’t.”

              O: That’s the beauty of America, isn’t it? You don’t have to like everything and everybody, and that’s perfectly OK. I know it is for me. :)

              “TBH you are the reason I’ve stopped reading this blog on a daily basis (and I have been reading this blog since 2010)”

              O: Which explains your current response…?

              “Your insistence on derailing and making every topic about how much black men are under attack (which of course you are but holy mother of God the post topic was about Kanye West)”

              O: And I spoke to the topic. Moreover, do you not agree that “topics” here go all over the place, and all the time? And most especially, I have presented clear and present evidence, that Black Men are most assuredly under the gun, and it is my considered view that we do not discuss it anywhere near enough. Much like we aren’t, right now…

              “shitz in my Cheerios and I mostly just ignore you which costs me $0.00 so maybe I’ll just stop complaining and say: It’s a free country so do as you please and by all means hit your “thread-jackin” dougie.”

              O: I shall; you have a great day too!

              :)

              O.

              • Vanity in Peril

                lol… naaaah to all of that but thanks for playing.

                • Obsidian Files

                  You’re most welcome!

                  O.

                • Obsidian Files

                  You’re most welcome!

                  O.

      • SweetSass

        The lurkers have spoken, they don’t approve of your threadjacking.

        • Yoles

          the thread jacking as its called appears downright rude…

          • Obsidian Files

            This is a forum called *Very Smart Brothas*. I am very much line with that title and purpose…

            O.

            • Yoles

              Obie this forum is not an “open” topic forum, has a different topic everyday in which the readers are encouraged to speak on and give their opinions. You, on a daily basis, speak outside of the topic not to mention that your daily topic is the same thing or related to the same thing every single timeof the day and then become abrasive when responding to people who make it clear that you deviating from the topic upsets them.

              My statement still stands, your thread jacking is rude, rude to the owners of the site, rude to the original poster who came up with a topic and wrote on it and rude to the other commenters.

              • Obsidian Files

                @Ms. Yoles,
                Yet, I can do and dig up, at random, all manner of “thread jacking” that goes on here and just about everywhere else in the blogosphere; the singling of me out is quite interesting.

                How many times has Kanye West has been mentioned here – this month alone, and June 2013 isn’t even finished yet? Or Beyonce? Or Jay-Z? Most of the time I don’t say anything about any of that because, hey, I don’t knock what others are talking about for the most part. But I just happen to have this crazy idea that Brothas can talk about things just a weebit more elevating than that, from time to time.

                Moreover, I *did* give my opinion on the topic, several times, in fact. In short, I’m just not a huge Kanye fan. I don’t knock others for it, God bless them, but it really ain’t me. I recognize his talent and wish him and Ms, Kim K all the best. That’s really about it.

                And so, my remarks stands; if I am “rude”, the archives clearly show, almost on the regular, that I am by no means alone…

                O.

                • SweetSass

                  If the commenters here wanted to talk about that nonsense you talk about… they would have gone to your blog(s).

                  They don’t and since you’re thirsty for attention and validation you gotta come on here spouting your BW Ain’t Ish ideology every damn day.

                  • Obsidian Files

                    @Ms. SweetSass:
                    LOL. I am by no means “thirsty” for attention or validation; but I am making a contribution. Nor do I think what you said about Black Women – that’s YOU, talking about how YOU think about them; what H.L. Mencken said was right after all…

                    O.

                    • SweetSass

                      Your ‘contributions’ are about as valuable as flaming dog poo on the front step. I have yet to see one upvote for your tirade. Who are these people that actually want to listen to you rant everyday?

            • panamajackson

              You are and you aren’t at the same time. See, I get what you’re doing, but you’re methods just suck. You decide that you have something to say and you decide that you’re going to do it whether or not it has anything to do with whats being talked about. There’s a certain level I respect for somebody who gives no f*cks about where they are and decides to speak their mind under the guise of enlightenment…but the other half is that i start to treat you like the Black Hebrew Isrealites I see everywhere. If i cared to stop and listen I’m sure they were dropping knowledge, but their approach and insistence on lambasting me with their truth just makes me, somebody who may actually stand to gain something from it, just walk on by with my headphones feeling like I lost nothing by NOT listening.

              I do think there’s a certain arrogance that you have that I’m assuming most of us bloggers have that what we have to say is so worthy of note that even if I’m attempting to take over somebody else’s blog, they’ll listen. But man…the social good you think you’re doing gets lost by your method. Sure there are some folks here who love it. More power to them. I’m not here to argue that. But the reason why so many folks get annoyed is that you show up in my motherf*cking establishment, don’t wipe your feet on the rug, and pretend its your house.

              You don’t f*ck with the topic. Cool. At least pretend to make a real connection sometimes. As opposed to coming in with your bigger fish. You have a site…fry that sh*t on your site.

              This ain’t your grill, pimp. Or at least acknowledge this fact.

              • Obsidian Files

                @Panama:

                “You are and you aren’t at the same time. See, I get what you’re doing, but you’re methods just suck. You decide that you have something to say and you decide that you’re going to do it whether or not it has anything to do with whats being talked about. There’s a certain level I respect for somebody who gives no f*cks about where they are and decides to speak their mind under the guise of enlightenment…but the other half is that i start to treat you like the Black Hebrew Isrealites I see everywhere.”

                O: That’s odd, considering that I don’t curse people out, threaten violence or the Wrath of God against them, or hurl racist invective – all of which are staples of BHI actions.

                “If i cared to stop and listen I’m sure they were dropping knowledge, but their approach and insistence on lambasting me with their truth just makes me, somebody who may actually stand to gain something from it, just walk on by with my headphones feeling like I lost nothing by NOT listening.”

                O: As is your right to do.

                “I do think there’s a certain arrogance that you have that I’m assuming most of us bloggers have that what we have to say is so worthy of note that even if I’m attempting to take over somebody else’s blog, they’ll listen. But man…the social good you think you’re doing gets lost by your method.”

                O: Is it? You and I are talking, right now – and the issue I raise, IS a huge one in the Black community, is it not?

                “Sure there are some folks here who love it. More power to them. I’m not here to argue that. But the reason why so many folks get annoyed is that you show up in my motherf*cking establishment, don’t wipe your feet on the rug, and pretend its your house.

                “You don’t f*ck with the topic. Cool. At least pretend to make a real connection sometimes. As opposed to coming in with your bigger fish. You have a site…fry that sh*t on your site.”

                O: Actually, it’s two now – haven’t you heard? ;)

                “This ain’t your grill, pimp. Or at least acknowledge this fact.”

                O: Panama, conversations go all over the place here all the time; yet you only single me out. How convenient.

                And I don’t pimp.

                O.

                • panamajackson

                  I single you out b/c you have a tendency towards thinking you’re doing some great good for us all here. Conversations go left but its organic. You come in and change course with out any attempt at pretending you care at what’s being spoken about. So miss me with the victimhood.

                  Whether or not you are raising an issue thats important for the community is totally irrelevant which sits with the BHI comment I made. Quit being so literal. You can clearly read so you know what I was getting at. Point is, the reason everybody doesn’t f*ck with you and why a lot of peope ignore you is b/c of your method. Sometimes I do think you believe this to be your own blog.

                  Now, at the end of the day, I’m going to let you cook and fry your fish, but like I said, at least pretend you don’t think this is your site. You often bring interesting perspectives to the convos at hand. But respect the architects.

                  That’s what draws the ire of folks. And I know you know this. You just think your message is more important than any issue anybody has with how you bring it.

                  • Obsidian Files

                    @Panama:

                    “I single you out b/c you have a tendency towards thinking you’re doing some great good for us all here. Conversations go left but its organic. You come in and change course with out any attempt at pretending you care at what’s being spoken about. So miss me with the victimhood.”

                    O: Nice try, but I don’t consider myself a victim, just stating a fact. “Organic” or no, the fact of the matter is that conversations fly all over the place, more often than not with nary a word from me. I simply start up a convo, and those who wanna join in, do so, and those who don’t, don’t.

                    And yes, I am making a contribution, a legitimate one. The previous discussion on fatherhood per the study that was recently done and published here in Philly, Doing The Best I Can, has direct and real implications for us. It’s something more of us needs to be aware of.

                    “Whether or not you are raising an issue thats important for the community is totally irrelevant which sits with the BHI comment I made. Quit being so literal. You can clearly read so you know what I was getting at. Point is, the reason everybody doesn’t f*ck with you and why a lot of peope ignore you is b/c of your method. Sometimes I do think you believe this to be your own blog.”

                    O: It’s not; I go much harder in the paint there, believe it or not. And yes, I am being literal for a reason – you attempted to draw a comparison between me and a group who has threatened (White) people with physical violence; that is not my way. I have never once cursed at any one here, though I can recount quite a number of times when the reverse has happened without so much as a peep from you. I am nothing like the BHI. Please find another analogy; I take exception to that one.

                    “Now, at the end of the day, I’m going to let you cook and fry your fish, but like I said, at least pretend you don’t think this is your site. You often bring interesting perspectives to the convos at hand. But respect the architects.”

                    O: Again, when have I cursed anyone out here? Made blatantly offensive insults at Women in here, of a s*xual nature (unlike the many times I’ve been pelted with sexist insults like “You got a small peen”)? I for one would like to see those quotes.

                    “That’s what draws the ire of folks. And I know you know this. You just think your message is more important than any issue anybody has with how you bring it.”

                    O: No; what draws the ire of folks is that I am drawing attention to the pink elephant in the middle of the room. Again, I do not curse at others. Or make wildly sexist remarks about their anatomy, in the most derogatory ways. And I most certainly do not threaten violence on anyone else.

                    O.

                    • panamajackson

                      Why are you even talking about violence? See I don’t even understand what you’re talking about right now. You did it again. You managed to turn something that has nothing to do with violence into a convo about violence? what exactly are you talking about?

                      You can take exception to that if you chose to, I couldn’t care less. I feel like you got in your feelings and totally missed the analogy. lol. Come on doggy. Mr. No feelings. Get your life.

                      I aint changing my analogy so let it go. You’re a big boy. You’ll be alright.

                    • Obsidian Files

                      @Panama:

                      “Why are you even talking about violence? See I don’t even understand what you’re talking about right now. You did it again. You managed to turn something that has nothing to do with violence into a convo about violence? what exactly are you talking about?”

                      O: The BHI are a group that is well known for preaching violence against Whites, in the guise of religious retribution. That is what I am talking about. And I am saying that I don’t truck with that kind of ideology.

                      “You can take exception to that if you chose to, I couldn’t care less.”

                      O: Apparently not…

                      ” I feel like you got in your feelings and totally missed the analogy. lol.”

                      O: You’re more than entitled to that.

                      “Come on doggy. Mr. No feelings. Get your life.”

                      O: I didn’t say I didn’t have feelings. And I am very much alive.

                      “I aint changing my analogy so let it go.”

                      O: How unfortunate…

                      O.

                    • panamajackson

                      Cool.

                    • SweetSass

                      Possibly the most apt analogy ever. I would’ve used that face attacking monster from Aliens as a metaphor but you can at least kill that with fire…

                    • Camilleblu

                      this made me giggle….

                    • Camilleblu

                      this made me giggle….

                    • h.h.h.

                      “”Organic” or no, the fact of the matter is that conversations fly all over the place, more often than not with nary a word from me. I simply start up a convo, and those who wanna join in, do so, and those who don’t, don’t.

                      And yes, I am making a contribution, a legitimate one. The previous discussion on fatherhood per the study that was recently done and published here in Philly, Doing The Best I Can, has direct and real implications for us. It’s something more of us needs to be aware of.”

                      can you tie this into previewing Yeezus?

                    • SweetSass

                      You’re the only one who sees and/or cares about this so called pink elephant. Just because you say something is an issue, doesn’t make it an issue.

                    • Obsidian Files

                      @Ms. SweetSass:
                      Actually, I’m not – that was the whole point of bringing up the articles I linked to today and last week. The only ones who do not seem to care, to paraphrase a comment by you upthread, are the ones most impacted by it…

                      O.

                    • Obsidian Files

                      @Ms. SweetSass:
                      Actually, I’m not – that was the whole point of bringing up the articles I linked to today and last week. The only ones who do not seem to care, to paraphrase a comment by you upthread, are the ones most impacted by it…

                      O.

                • SweetSass

                  The difference is that the tangent conversations usually relate in SOME way to the main issue. And usually those folks don’t come in here with the same tired talking points everyone has heard a million times. Unlike you. You’re beating a dead horse, everyday.

                  • Obsidian Files

                    @Ms. SweetSass:
                    Actually, the vast majority of my comments do in fact, address the topic – more and in pointed detail than the vast majority of YOURS, I might add.

                    And again, I ask: how often has Kanye West been discussed here? Or Beyonce? Or Jay-Z? Or the Real Housewives of ATL? Etc, et al? Topics have been discussed to the point that they are zombies of their original selves, and again, hey, I can dig it, because I know what’s going on. That’s part of the reason why, until today, I haven’t said anything about it.

                    So, please, let’s dispense with the singling out business. There’s quite a bit of dead horse whipping to go around – several times over…

                    O.

                  • Obsidian Files

                    @Ms. SweetSass:
                    Actually, the vast majority of my comments do in fact, address the topic – more and in pointed detail than the vast majority of YOURS, I might add.

                    And again, I ask: how often has Kanye West been discussed here? Or Beyonce? Or Jay-Z? Or the Real Housewives of ATL? Etc, et al? Topics have been discussed to the point that they are zombies of their original selves, and again, hey, I can dig it, because I know what’s going on. That’s part of the reason why, until today, I haven’t said anything about it.

                    So, please, let’s dispense with the singling out business. There’s quite a bit of dead horse whipping to go around – several times over…

                    O.

              • Asiyah

                “but the other half is that i start to treat you like the Black Hebrew
                Isrealites I see everywhere. If i cared to stop and listen I’m sure they
                were dropping knowledge, but their approach and insistence on
                lambasting me with their truth just makes me, somebody who may actually
                stand to gain something from it, just walk on by with my headphones
                feeling like I lost nothing by NOT listening.”

                YES YES YES!!!!

                • Obsidian Files

                  Why am I not surprised you would go in for this kind of thing?

                  O.

                  • Asiyah

                    Because you’re extremely perceptive and perspicacious

                    ………………..

                    and because I’ve mentioned something like that before. It’s all about your method and delivery.

                    • Obsidian Files

                      OK – so let’s see…

                      I do not curse at others.

                      I do not make lewd remarks about others, usually in a derogatory way.

                      And most of time, people like yourself, do any and everything NOT to address the points being made.

                      How am I doing?

                      Thank you for the compliments, by the way; I didn’t think you had it in ya… ;)

                      O.

                    • Asiyah

                      I didn’t mean to imply that your method is lewd. I just feel it is condescending.

                      As to your points, why address them? You believe what you want to believe anyway, and I am not trying to change your mind. Like I said, my issue with you is your delivery. It’s far too condescending for me and as such instead of engaging in an argument (for I can be very argumentative when I feel talked down to) I’d rather just not address them. Contrary to popular belief, not all women of color are looking for a fight.

                    • Asiyah

                      I didn’t mean to imply that your method is lewd. I just feel it is condescending.

                      As to your points, why address them? You believe what you want to believe anyway, and I am not trying to change your mind. Like I said, my issue with you is your delivery. It’s far too condescending for me and as such instead of engaging in an argument (for I can be very argumentative when I feel talked down to) I’d rather just not address them. Contrary to popular belief, not all women of color are looking for a fight.

                    • Obsidian Files

                      OK – so let’s see…

                      I do not curse at others.

                      I do not make lewd remarks about others, usually in a derogatory way.

                      And most of time, people like yourself, do any and everything NOT to address the points being made.

                      How am I doing?

                      Thank you for the compliments, by the way; I didn’t think you had it in ya… ;)

                      O.

                  • Asiyah

                    Because you’re extremely perceptive and perspicacious

                    ………………..

                    and because I’ve mentioned something like that before. It’s all about your method and delivery.

                • Obsidian Files

                  Why am I not surprised you would go in for this kind of thing?

                  O.

              • Asiyah

                “but the other half is that i start to treat you like the Black Hebrew
                Isrealites I see everywhere. If i cared to stop and listen I’m sure they
                were dropping knowledge, but their approach and insistence on
                lambasting me with their truth just makes me, somebody who may actually
                stand to gain something from it, just walk on by with my headphones
                feeling like I lost nothing by NOT listening.”

                YES YES YES!!!!

        • Obsidian Files

          The Lurkers are cowards, they cannot honestly grapple with my arguments…

          There, fixed that for ya.

          ;)

          O.

          • SweetSass

            I think it has more to do with your comments being totally irrelevant to the discussion.

            • Obsidian Files

              @Ms. SweetSass:

              So says the always on-target one! Neat.

              O.

          • panamajackson

            Pretty sure thats not the right fix.

      • h.h.h.

        “Cowards…”

        accusations of cowardice, simply for not playing your games?

        aww why dost thou be-ith so mad-ith, esteemed bro of the bourgeoisie?

        • Obsidian Files

          @Triple H:
          Not mad at all; amused? Definitely.

          And I call them cowards because that is precisely what they are. By attempting to play to the Mob, they hope to do what their lack of forging a cogent counter argument could not.

          Any more questions?

          O.

          • h.h.h.

            no further question, Yuh Honnor. just an amusing observation of your colourful interpretation of the word ‘coward’.

            please continue, you’re an amusing study in of itself.

          • h.h.h.

            no further question, Yuh Honnor. just an amusing observation of your colourful interpretation of the word ‘coward’.

            please continue, you’re an amusing study in of itself.

        • Obsidian Files

          @Triple H:
          Not mad at all; amused? Definitely.

          And I call them cowards because that is precisely what they are. By attempting to play to the Mob, they hope to do what their lack of forging a cogent counter argument could not.

          Any more questions?

          O.