The Short End Of The Stick: Women, Height Preferences, and Hypocrisy

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We all know the story:

Perpetually and hopelessly single Girl sends an email to her homegirls, asking them to please be extra vigilant in their on-going search for Girl’s potential future beau. Girl’s homegirls — tired of Girl ruining brunches with her increasingly melancholy laments about her (lack of) dating success and also annoyed with smell of staleness emitting from Girl’s vagina — agree to help Girl with her search, even though they know that Girl’s standards means that there’s a better chance of seeing Muammar Gaddafi on Dancing With The Stars than finding her a match.

But, as luck would have it, one of Girl’s homegirls does happen to meet a Boy who should be a perfect fit. Successful (he’s a lawyer), handsome (he’s a lip model for Chapstick), funny (he was a finalist on the 1st season of Last Comic Standing), adventurous (he owns a full-grown liger), athletic (he plays semi-pro rugby), hood-enough (he goes to a Black barbershop and his name is “Malik”), and well-endowed (in college, a group of very impressed women nicknamed him “baby-arm”), Boy is a close to a perfect man as you can get. Girl’s homegirl tells Girl about Boy, and Girl is extremely excited (and extremely wet).

But, Girl also realizes that her homegirl is leaving out one very important piece of information. You see, although Girl is 5’0” in heels, she refuses to date anyone under 6’2”, and when Girl finds out that Boy is “only” 5’10”, Girl’s no longer interested and her panties immediately dry back up. Girl’s homegirl realizes that this is the last straw, and, realizing that Girl will continue to make everyone’s life a living hell, hires and sends a team of ninjas (not “n*ggas,” but actual ninjas) to Girl’s apartment to murder her. They succeed.

Although this tale was a bit hyperbolic, it’s not really that far from the cold hard reality of women and their completely illogical height preferences; a dastardly phenomenon with far reaching effects. Men who reach the average height for an American male — 5’9” — are routinely dismissed by women as “short,” and legitimately short men — men who fall under the average — remain the only demographic on Earth who it’s still socially acceptable to ridicule and/or discriminate against.

As pointed out in yesterday’s “The 10 Men You Should Never, Ever, Ever Consider Dating,” even many (if not most) midget broads still feel entitled to be with men who reach the ever so notable 6′ mark…even though only one out of every seven men qualifies.

This state of mind also affects how we categorize behavior. An asshole who happens to be 6’3”? Just an asshole. A 5’3” asshole? An example of Napoleon syndrome. An 6’1” man whipping a F-150? Cool. A 5’5” man whipping a F-150? Overcompensating.

Even (the few) women who are completely self-aware still take part in this foolishness, saying things like “I know it’s wrong to say this, but how’s it going to look when I bring my midget man to the family reunion and he gets picked last for volleyball?”

Yeah, I know that was funny, but imagine if this was said about, I don’t know, “big” women.

“I know it’s wrong to say this, but how’s it going to look when I bring my whale woman to the family reunion and she eats all the damn catfish?” (Ok, this was still kind of funny, but you get my point)

The most telling part of this phenomenon is that it exposes women who attend services at Our Lady of The Completely Illogical Height Preferences as being just as shallow and superficial as they accuse men of being. While chiding men for going gaga for God-given gluteus gifts or (gasp!) having a certain hair or complexion preference, they’re showing no shame in freely expressing that their relentless need to rock 6 inch heels and still be able to “look up” to their beaus automatically disqualifies any man who’s not at least five inches taller than her from coitus contention.

Sometimes they’ll even try spit some evolutionary gobbledygook about “feeling safer” with a taller man, like you need that extra two inches to help fend off the woolly mammoths and foaming crackheads of the Saks Fifth Serengeti. F*ckers.

Admittedly, it’s true that you can’t fabricate physical attraction, and I’m sure the illogical height preference hoochies will remind me of that fact. But, once you get to the meat of their mindset, you find that the preferences are 90% based on appearances. Basically, it’s not that she’s not attracted to men who don’t meet her requirements, she’s just concerned about the comments her homegirls will leave on her Facebook profile pics when they see that her new boo can head-butt her in the nose without bending over. At least a man’s preference for T and A is actually about the T and A…not whether his girl’s ass will look fat enough when he takes her to the company picnic.

Anyway, people of VSB.com, how do you feel about the completely illogical height preferences phenomenon? Do you think women are justified in feeling this way, or is the hypocrisy making you gag?

Also, for those who do pray at the height preferences alter, explain yourselves! Why exactly are you so hell-bent on being the Nate Robinson to your man’s Yao Ming? What’s wrong with just finding a Rondo?

—The Champ

***In just case you missed it, last week The Root compiled a list of “30 Black Bloggers You Should Know,” and VSB was the first blog listed! We are extremely appreciative of (and humbled by) all of this recognition, and we couldn’t have done it without you all. Thank you for continuing to be the best community on the internet***

And, um, if you haven’t purchased the paperback or the $9.99 Kindle version of “Your Degrees Wont Keep You Warm at Night: The Very Smart Brothas Guide to Dating, Mating, and Fighting Crime” yet, what the hell is stopping you?

1,292 thoughts on “The Short End Of The Stick: Women, Height Preferences, and Hypocrisy”

    • Tall guys are nice. I’m 5’9 and would like a guy who is at least 5’11. Period. It’s a pity how the druggies have produced a species of incredibly short men all around. Lol.

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      • I’m 5’11 and every single boyfriend I’ve had has been shorter than me. Doesn’t mean that I didn’t have guys above 6 feet wanna get with me but it seemed that when I decided to be in a proper relationship it was always with guys my exact height or shorter.

        I don’t really care about the height thing, as long as I don’t have to bend over and hurt my back to kiss you, I’m good.

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        • I don’t really care about the height thing

          Same here… and with good reason too! I am 5’4 and 3/4… lol. To be honest, I have never even wanted to be taller myself. I think I have the perfect height. Lol… My best friend is 5’11 (she has been this tall since we were in high school) and 2 of my younger sisters are like 5’8 and 5’10…

          Of course, it’s easy to date taller guys at this height… but I have dated guys my height… And I was perfectly fine with it. I guess I am an all opportunity dater… with a very important numero uno deal breaker: the boy has to be SMART. Can’t, won’t, refused to compromise on that. Lol.

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          • Hey, you sound just like me and my bestie! We’re just leaving high school and I’m 5’11″ and she’s about 5’5″. Sadly, this means we have never been able to share clothes, as God meant for girlfriends to do. lol

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      • Im a 4 foot 10 inch tall (almost 5 feet) guy. I get teased and scared by tall Alpha girls like you alot. You’re heightist.

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        • I’m more worried about a 6’3 guy breaking me LOL, a 4’11 chick. Those girls who tease you about being short are going to wish later on that they were short ;)

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    • 1. 5’9 is not Tall-ish for a woman. You are tall.

      2. Why is it that only Tall-ish chicks are commenting. THIS BLOG IS NOT ABOUT YOU.

      Thats all i got lol

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    • I am a short guy who has a preference for tall women. I’ve learned that many women over 6 feet don’t care too much about a man’s height since dating men only taller than themselves would make their choices very limited. Years ago I dated a woman almost 6’3 (I am 5’7) and I asked her why she first went out with me. Her exact quote was “All the tall men like little Pixie women, so who does that leave me to go out with”. Since then I have never been shy about asking a tall woman out. A surprising percentage will say yes.

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  2. Honestly, as a tall-ish chick (5’9.5″) I don’t need a man who is over 5 inches taller than me. I’m not into heels but even if I wanted to be, it wouldn’t bother me to be eye to eye, or a little taller than him in heels. My main beef? Being eye to bosom. I really need to not be noticeably taller than my man when we are both wearing flats. I don’t think that’s a difficult request. I don’t think I am being shallow for feeling this way either lol. There was a time when I only wanted to date basketball players because I loved their height. I guess I still kinda like their height, but it’s not that much of a dealbreaker to me anymore.

    Either way, I get it. Some men prefer T over A. I prefer tall/average over munchkin. I don’t think we are being hypocrites, especially the tall women. We just want someone our height lol.

    Also, I don’t hate on short men. I feel like we have a kinship in our dating struggles with respect to height.

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    • I getcha, Liz. It makes sense for you at 5’9 to not necessarily want a 5’6 dude. But if someone who is 5’0 is on that dummy talmbout “Ummm, he’s short” they need a dropkick.

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      • This is true. HOWEVER, just because 5’6 ain’t tall compared to me (5’1) does NOT mean I can’t tell that he’s, in fact, short. I know what short looks like. I AM short. Like I said before, I rather not look like I just stepped off the Wizard of Oz set.

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        • My question would be – you being short yourself, why would it matter that you are aware that he is also short?

          I just learned yesterday about this phenomenon. I’m curious to learn more.

          This statement – “I rather not look like I just stepped off the Wizard of Oz set” kind of backs up what the Champ was saying about your preference being based on appearances.

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          • It is about appearances. Who told you any different? lol If I like a guy, then I like a guy. There’s no stopping that train. It must be said that I’m a “solid” 5’1. I do not look like some pixie-Tinkerbell little person. I don’t like small dudes, and most short dudes are small. If I look like I can take you in a fight, we really have problems.

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            • I’m with you Shorty, when it comes to the “pixie” thing :) . But this is my thing: Why is this a discussion? There are very few aesthetic must-haves for men. Society has made it so that those things are relegated to the world of woman.

              So what, I like a man that’s significantly taller than I am? Men have a myriad of physical preferences (INCLUSIVE of height) for women, nobody bats an eye. I can see why shorter men are…concerned. Same reason some chicks don’t like the whole “men likes curves” thing… cause some women were born to look like Olive Oil. But the women who are concerned with who other women want to date and are debating (for 2 days now!) what MY height requirement should be as a 5-footer…Really?! LOL @ y’all.

              I’ll date whomever attracts me. I can’t wear over-the-knee boots, but I can date a man at any height and probably be shorter than him. BTW, I like them 5’9″ and up and my current man is a full foot taller than me. Only men approching 6’5″ and above get the side eye (but not automatically denial).

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              • Let’s put it like this: It isn’t all about you “LuvRain”, this paradigm affects our community and THAT is the reason it is a discussion.

                You don’t need to be uppity about your perspective JUST because your perspective is uppity.

                Got it? Much live and play nice…Short stuff…Ha, I made a funny.

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      • which i think is the crux of what Champ is talking about. Tall women might have a legitish beef…but its the tiny ovaries that do have some odd entitlement issue to date taller men. perhaps its psychological. they know they’ve got small feet and don’t want to chance their male offspring being tiny too. which is actually one of the very things many folks take into account when looking for babymakers – how they’ll end up.

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        • So are ugly men wrong for preferring attractive women? I see you guy’s point but I’m just saying that everyone has and is allowed to have a preference. I have a bbm friend who loves skinny dudes (and they love her back). Who am I to tell her she needs to stick with other heavy guys. She can’t control who she is most attracted to. It’s really not my place to say.

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          • She can’t control who she is most attracted to.

            THIS. but also, only a fool would let a preference keep them from being with someone who didn’t match that but hella cool otherwise.

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          • I don’t think that anyone is trying to control preferences it just becomes a problem when your preferences become foolish. The ugly guy can love pretty women, but when starts to tell solid 8′s that they don’t make the cut because they aint pretty enough. That’s when the problem starts. I’ve had this problem happen to me a few times. Girls shorter the 5’5 saying that I’m too short. I’m 6’1.

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            • SCREEEEECCCCHHHHHHHstop the damn press Kirk Lazzarus!!!!!
              those broads were just straight dumb… must be the air is too thick down there or something…
              all that matters is I think you’re tall enough!!!!! 6’1″ hmpf

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        • Panama said exactly what I was thinking. I’m thinking of my male offspring. My dad is 6’3″. I’m only 5’4″, but I have always had a preference for men who are taller than me (when I wear heels). Since I don’t want my kids to tower over their father, my preference is for a man who’s at least 5’10″. As I’ve gotten older, I’m not so stringent on that. I’ve dated guys who are 3-4 inches taller than me. But I seriously doubt I would date a man my height or shorter. That would just be weird.

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          • You guys. Height is definitely determined with more factors than the height of their parents lol. Genetics is kinda crazy like that.

            but, I can get away with this line of free thinking since I have all kinds of height-powered genes on my side LOL.

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            • Liz, you are absolutely right. Genetics are a weird thing. But I want to give my child as much of a chance of being tall as possible. #dontjudgeme :)

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            • Basically. My father is about 5′-10″ and my mother is 5′-6″ and my brother and I are both 6′-4″ and there is only only one other tall person on both sides of the family that we know of and he is 6′-2″.

              And I’ve known short people with tall parents, genes are definitely unpredictable.

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              • Exactly… As I stated yesterday… My cousin married a guy that’s 6’4″ or so, she’s 4’11″. Their daughter is going to be tall, their son is built like his mom. Short with a big booty.

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              • My father is about 5?-10? and my mother is 5?-6? and my brother and I are both 6?-4? and there is only only one other tall person on both sides of the family that we know of and he is 6?-2?.

                Please say it one more time.

                My mother is 5’5, my father is 5’6 on a VERY good day. Lol. My sisters are 5’8, 5’6 and 5’10 respectively… so yeah, genetics doesn’t follow a straight up line… :)

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            • #Agreed. I’m taller than both my parents and have been since the age of sixteen. I’m also lighter than both my parents, my younger brother is darker than both our parents, and my OLDER bro has hawk-eye vision, while both his mother and father have worn glasses most of their lives.

              My point? Marry whoever floats your boat the most, and send up a prayer about all the rest of that stuff. lol

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            • My daughter is only 5’4 and I’m 5’11. Genetics are evil!!!! She is one of those cute, hot, little girls who get all the guys and are mean as hell! I don’t even like her. I always wanted a tall daughter who could be a fellow “tall girl” lol… So if your looking to breed with people to produce certain offspring it won’t work. I never felt any connection to her since I realized she was going to be short, and even had a maternity test (yes there is one… thought my daughter was out there …switched at birth). Sadly she’s my own mean tiny person….. My son is 5’6 and 10. He’ll probably be 6’4 and only like girls 5’2. Being a tall girl is so hard and so lonely!

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        • PJ3 you couldn’t be more right.

          I am 5″ tall. I’ve been to concerts where I’ve stared at torso’s and the backs of heads all night long. I’ve been turned away from rollercoaster rides because I must be THIS tall to ride. There are step ladders all over my house because I can’t reach anything on the top shelves. I’m the girl typically found directly beneath someone’s armpit (ripe with funk from the day mind you) on the el commuting to and from work. It’s very frustrating being a short person. I love my size… but I do feel like there is a need to compensate to get noticed sometimes… in all environments – not strictly limited to dating.

          My infatuation with tall men is purely Darwinistic. I simply don’t want to have a son that is 5,0″. Me + Taller than average Joe = Regular Sized Joe. That is not chick logic. And it seems as though tall men have a similar train of thought. Tall men are always bumping their heads on doorways, paying more for clothes, constantly crouching and messing up their posture. They recognize that there’s a disadvantage to being too tall as well.

          I will say though, that I do not shoot down short men just for the sake of wanting average-sized children. My current boyfriend is 5,5”-ish and I’m willing to modify my tastes/wants because he is a good man and is worth it. I think that everyone, regardless of what they’re looking for in a partner, goes through this. We (both men and women) all have ideas/lists/pictures of who and what we want, but when that actual person crosses our paths, they’re not at all what we had envisioned initially. They’re a 100 times better for 100 different reasons not limited to height, T&A, legs, and other physical/superficial qualities.

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          • Liz (and perhaps a few others) have already mentioned this, but you being with a tall man doesnt ensure your offspring will be tall or even averaged height. hell, you could be with some one just as small and your children come out taller than both parents.

            its very difficult to predict. itd take quite a bit of mating and generations before you get the genes all lined up for tall height.

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          • I love my size too! I’m 4’9″ so everyone is tall to me. Height has never been important to me, but I know a chick that is 5’1′ that likes guys over 6’0′. #leroyplease

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        • LMAO @ tiny ovaries!

          I’m short (5’2) so, most people are tall to me. I am not going to get psycho with the height of my potential mate. I will not hand out Punnet square worksheets to dates to figure out the probable height of the fruit of my womb! While I hope that the Clyde to my Bonnie wouldn’t be the first runner up in the Lollipop Guild pageant, I’ll take him if I’m attracted to him, he loves me, has a good heart, and a working moral compass.

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      • I’m 5 ’2 and my husband is 6 ’5….i’ve always liked tall men, they just look better to me…

        My thing was “I’m looking out for my future sons”… hehe

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    • Liz,

      I am 5’11 and fighting the generational curses of my grandmothers. I agree with everything you said but the basketball player thing. I never required that height but it is a plus. I don’t want to look like a mother with her son either.

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      • LOL! Yeah the basketball thing prolly comes from the fact that all the guys I used to date/swoon over in middle school and high school were basketball players, so they set the pace i guess.

        Plus my dad is 6’7″. My stepdad is 6’3″. Mom is 5’6″. Tall men preferences are hereditary! :)

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        • Hereditary, yes, it is true for me. My father is 6′ 5″. My grandmothers were both tall and my grandfathers short. It was the reverse of what the article is saying. I have never dated a short man. I have been tempted but I cannot do it.

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        • Heredity is cruel sometimes, yo. My dad is over six feet and all my cousins are over 6’4, but here comes Chris at 5’9 and thats after I grew 7 inches AFTER i graduated high school. HA!

          But having said that, I have no trouble with the ladies, and theyve generally all been taller than me.

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    • i agree with liz. height isn’t really that much of a dealbreaker. there are a whole hell of a lot of other things a man could be that would be more of a dealbreaker to me. i’ve dated shorter men before in the past and i’m sure i will in the future. that said, if they aren’t at least eye level there’s gonna be an issue. eye to bosom isn’t sexy at all.

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      • I Love reading these comments… Here’s what I feel like I’m reading:

        “No, Champ! It’s not like that. I’ll date anyone… but I’m more attracted to Tall guys for no-reason-whatsoever”

        and

        “OK, ok, ok. I like tall guys. I admit it. But I’ll give an average sized guy (read: I think he’s short, but I guess 5’8.5″ is the cut off for average nowadays. who knew?) a chance if he’s perfect in every other way… basically, if he’s Malik from up above… [insert joke at actual short guys' expense]”

        elledub: “Height isn’t really that much of a dealbreaker” (so… kind of a deal breaker, though) … “eye to bosom isn’t sexy at all.” (Hence, today’s post)

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    • liz

      i tried to say this yesterday, i’m not going to ignore a man that is my height but “My main beef? Being eye to bosom.” is sooo true… we can’t walk and talk, standing face-to-chest is disconcerting and it feels like you are not really connecting while conversing. i emphasized a man 5 inches shorter than me is too much.. the pic above… no bueno

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      • Plus! a short man trying to put his arm around u feels awkward. Like you are some overgrown giant in 7th grade, waiting for him to hit puberty or something. We grown!

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        • “we grown” is so true!!!! and i’m big… it just feels like i’m a seeing eye bear leading a blind man or something… NO BUENO

          SN: people talking about me… somehow i didn’t think you were in the “above average woman height club” either…
          #stillsaltyabout3deez

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        • @Liz

          I think the problem is that women who want to wear 4-5” heels are acting as if they will be wearing those for most of the relationship. When they take their shoes off alot of the time they are SHORTER than the man. If your dating a dude whose your height he can still put his arms around you and it not feel awkward.

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          • Eh. As a woman who doesn’t wear heels often, heels are indeed a way of life for women. There are basically two types of chicks: women who wear heels and women who don’t. I used to wear heels a lot, then I stopped wearing them….now I can’t wear a heel without breaking my neck or having severe foot pain the next day. Something about heels (i.e the way they mess up your feet!) makes it so you can’t really be a casual wearer. You’re all in or you’re all out. So, these women have some valid cases if they’re the type who wears heels a lot: they really mean they wear them all the time, so the height requirement/desire is real.

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            • I wear heels alot so maybe I should be trying to snag a podiatrist for all of the potential foot damage. Damn the height…… LOL!!!

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        • To extend Champs big girl analogy, what if guys said that about big women

          “She so big I can’t even wrap my arm around her an reach her shoulder, I look like I’m patting her on the back all the time”

          People would say a guy’s mean for stuff like that.

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          • What do you mean, “what if guys said that about big women.” MEN SAY THIS ALL THE TIME. Chubby chicks and fat acceptance is a whole nother talk show, but your hypothetical situation fails because it’s too plausible lol.

            And yes, people would say he is mean for saying that. But he’s mean and still dating chicks, so what’s the point/problem?

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            • Whether the guy is still dating chicks is debatable, he could be short, fat with black freckles. It just seems that women get to rationalize being mean and men get labeled superficial.

              If him putting his arm around you is awkward just don’t have him but his arm around you, it seems silly to make or brake a potential relationship. Just avoid all things awkward him putting his arm around you, the aforementioned forehead kiss and/or him trying to lift you off the ground at any point (ever).

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              • A guy like that is both mean and superficial though? I don’t see any differences there with respect to gender. Mean and superficial men are dating chicks too. They may be low-selfofsteam chicks but still chicks nonetheless, who probably meet whatever superficial things they require.

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              • It just seems that women get to rationalize being mean and men get labeled superficial.

                @Omar
                i call BS. i think both genders are often accused of being superficial or hypocritical based on their physical characteristic preferences. and who are the ppl who are usually the ones that are upset the most by some one’s personal aesthetic criteria? the ones who dont fit the bill. a hit dog will holler. short men complain that women (of any size) excludes them from their list of dating desirables. dark women complain about men (of any shade) exclude them from their list of dating desirables. and so on and so forth.

                while no one likes to be excluded, men and women equally have their preferences. and truthfully, i actually believe men tend to be more likely to stray from their preferences (deal breakers), since they are such visual creatures. and women can be broke down by some jokes and smiley faces emoticons *shrug*

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                • oops!
                  “i actually believe men tend to be more likely to stray from their preferences (deal breakers)”

                  should read…
                  “i actually believe men tend to be LESS likely to stray from their preferences (deal breakers)”

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                  • I still think men catch more grief for being superficial, and women getting away with the I feel safer defense ,when a robber with a 38 special makes us all look 4′-10″, is one of the best examples.

                    I would say we stray from our preferences more for two reasons, they are often less rigidly defined and in the interest of horniness a lot of guys will take what they can get more than a lot of women would.

                    Also as easy as women can get broke down with jokes, they can get turned off with no hope of return by one slip of the tongue, so where one set of standards breaks down another set arises.

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            • Totally. I used to be pushing 240 and size 22. I often bemoaned that men treated big women like crap and were dbags in general, but didn’t suffer for their personality shortcomings because many other women still dated them and their men still high-fived them.

              Now I’m 150 and size 8 and I honestly still can’t deal with a dude who EVER made fun of big women. No, you don’t have to be ATTRACTED to them, and no, I’M not a big woman anymore, but if you made fun of big women, you’re a dbag. End of story.

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              • yeah I’m not sure the weight thing was a good analogy here lol. Overweight folks catch all kinds of hell and discrimination (overtly or not) and the world keeps on ticking like nothing happened. I don’t see this changing anytime soon, either.

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                • I can’t get with comparing height to weight. In 99% of cases weight is a matter of choice. Height is not. I can alter my weight by changing eating habits and activities. It is conceivable and quite possible to drop 50lbs. There’s not a drink, meal, or supplement on Earth that will take a 5’6″ man and make him 6′. There’s no choice in that. #Next!

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                  • Yeah the height/weight analogy has no merit here. Even if someone never changes their overweight or underweight status, the fact that it is perceived as changeable in our society, and height isn’t changeable, there are different dynamics at play. The best thing someone can do to change their height outside of genetics is probably related to nutrition during gestation, or your early years–something the individual in question has no control over either.

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        • “Plus! a short man trying to put his arm around u feels awkward. Like you are some overgrown giant in 7th grade, waiting for him to hit puberty or something. We grown!”

          i do admit, i have put my arm around a 5ft 8in girl and she was irritated….Im 20yrs old and only 4ft 10in tall…girls tend to act like Im a irritating little kid…

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      • @ Yoles:

        “we can’t walk and talk, standing face-to-chest is disconcerting…”

        Is it true the other way around? If the guy is 6 or 7 inches taller than you and you’re staring at his chest, would that be a problem? Not trying to put you on the spot here, because a LOT of women feel this way. But I think the point today is that women make up reasons to justify their attraction to taller men – and they actually believe their own reasons. But really, it’s probably just that subconsciously, “Tall guys are hot.”

        Damn Tall guys and their unfair advantages, being over to see over the crowds, and stuff (going to mutter silently now).

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        • It’s not the same.

          We have breasts. In case someone wants to get all technical with this one–don’t. Pretty sure you know what I mean. :)

          It’s enough that men, generally speaking, like to stare. To have them conveniently, genetically up close and personal like that? No bueno.

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    • Everyone talks about heals and flats and it always makes me wonder… in the history of fashion and attire, which cordwainer had the bright idea to make higher heals a type of shoe typically ascribed to women? I’m sure that dude has to be burning way down deep in the depths of hell somewhere.

      Imagine an alternate reality where, historically, men were the ones who wore high healed shoes and women were the ones who typically wore flats – wouldn’t the world be a much better place? We’d never have to have this discussion.

      In all seriousness though, I can appreciate a woman wanting a man taller than her, but, I think that woman has to realize that men don’t limit their dating pool in that same way. So, if you’re a tall chick, you can’t expect a tall man to like you more than another woman who is, statistically, exactly the same as you just because you’re taller than her. Just because you PREFER a tall man doesn’t mean you’re ENTITLED to one. If you’re going to limit your dating pool that way, or in any appearance based way you need to be exceptional and bring something more to the table to ensure you don’t end up the lonely cat-lady. Tall men are at more of a premium than tall women by their respective opposite sexes. An average looking, average educated, average earning tall man pretty much has his pick of the litter. But an average looking, average educated, average earning tall woman has to get in line with the rest of the average chicks and hope she gets chose. Your height doesn’t make you special in the typical male’s grading rubric.

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      • Men used to wear heels…. seriously. And bras used to be worn on the outside of the clothing…. don’t ask why I know these things. I just do.

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      • “which cordwainer had the bright idea to make higher heals a type of shoe typically ascribed to women? I’m sure that dude has to be burning way down deep in the depths of hell somewhere.”

        LOL! The great thing about heals is that they make our legs look leaner and nicer looking overall. Even women that have little to no muscle in their leg, seem to have nicer legs when they wear heals. I think this man was looking out for other men.

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      • Slow clap. Standing O. That whole last paragraph is IT!

        Can you say it one moe ‘gain for those in the cheap seats:
        “I can appreciate a woman wanting a man taller than her, but, I think that woman has to realize that men don’t limit their dating pool in that same way. So, if you’re a tall chick, you can’t expect a tall man to like you more than another woman who is, statistically, exactly the same as you just because you’re taller than her. Just because you PREFER a tall man doesn’t mean you’re ENTITLED to one. If you’re going to limit your dating pool that way, or in any appearance based way you need to be exceptional and bring something more to the table to ensure you don’t end up the lonely cat-lady.”

        Amen and amen!

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        • Ehh. I call shenanigans. This argument only works for tall men and their dating pools. Short men have smaller dating pools too, not by choice, but because women taller than them ain’t on that tip. Nobody here is disillusioned by entitlement but instead just looking at the facts of height.

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          • I am not so sure the short man’s situation is as bad as you think. By being average height, the “short” man avoids a lot of the superficial women that are height-obsessed – so maybe this is the way it was ‘supposed’ to be? neither party really want each other.

            looking at this: http://www.solvedating.com/american-singles-height.html
            it looks like if ladies dated men that are 5″ taller than them, then er body would have somebody.

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          • I hear you to an extent but there’s a big difference in what we’re saying. That is, a short guy knows and understands that he has to compete with taller men for not only the women that are taller than him, but also the short women cuz some short women love tall men too. Short dudes know they gotta compete and so they come to the game prepared.

            Tall women, on the flip side, seem to believe they don’t have to and shouldn’t have to compete with shorter women for the affections of taller men. They feel like they’re entitled to a tall man by the sheer fact that they’re tall. The point of my comment was to say, y’all gotta compete the same way short men gotta compete. If you’re dating pool is limited for any reason you need to put your game face on and be great.

            I’ve never in my life heard a short dude complain about not being able to find a good woman. Can’t say the same about women who have height requirements. So like i said, I’m not going to knock your requirement or tell you you’re not entitled to choose based on your own rubric, I’m just saying… you gotta compete.

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            • @TheMostInterestingManInTheWorld
              Hmm I have heard short men complain about getting women. It may or may not have been due to their height though (maybe they have other issues). I think tall women have their own dating challenges, but I am starting to think this whole post is more about the short short women demanding men over 6′. All the other folks have one less issue to deal with.

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              • @TheMostInterestingManInTheWorld
                sorry i think we broke the comments section today. threading is all borked. sigh. but, I got it :)

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            • Tall girls are sad girls!!!!! The dating thing starts when your young! Tall girls get hate!!!! Not disinterest, straight up hate!!!! We never learn to flirt, smile, or even look up. Short men I guess are horny so they still try. Tall girls become loners. I never even leave my house other than to buy essential things…. I don’t need to be told how tall & weird I am….lol I noticed before. I’m 34, 5’11, a virgin, and have a good job, two cool children and a full life without men… It is what it is!

              Reply ↓

      • “In all seriousness though, I can appreciate a woman wanting a man taller than her, but, I think that woman has to realize that men don’t limit their dating pool in that same way.”

        BASICALLY. The same can be said for women wanting men who make as much or more than them, there’s nothing wrong with wanting it but men make no such preconditions; after good looks and sanity relatively speaking most other things are pretty flexible.

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    • Good assessment! I agree! 5’8″ girl who wears 5 inch heels (daily)…and I REALLLLY tried to do the my height or shorter thing, but I always felt like I was out w/ith my little brother or something! And bumping foreheads when trying to hug is incredibly akward…

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    • I don’t know how much kinship short men and tall women have. Tall women have no problem finding dates. They just may only want to date people taller than them. That’s not quite the same thing.

      Tall women are likely just being picky in comparison to short men that a re marginalized.

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    • Champ really expected me to stop my laughing fit and continue to read this post after that?! LMAO >>>> A full grown liger. His name is Malik. Baby Arm.
      Like Liz, I’m tallish (5’9” 3/4) A majority of the guys I’ve dated have been taller. I guess because of that it turned into a requirement.
      However,short or tall…..as long as he’s fine among other things….I’d give him a chance. ;-)

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  5. I encourage women to discriminate against men who aren’t giants. This leaves more men for me to choose from. What? Isn’t this a place where we can be honest?

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      • Also, my view might be different if I were taller. But at FIVE THREE AND A HALF, I really don’t encounter too many men shorter than me (with or without stilettos).

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        • Woncetagin, you’re strummin my pain with your fingers…I’m not mad at 5’10″ ladies wanting 5’10″ men, it’s the chicks our height that won’t date a 5’10 dude who’s still 5 inches taller than her in heels. FOH while I swoop that man.

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    • +1
      I think I’ve had this conversation once or twice with a few of my friends before; it’s always some irrelevant sh*t they’re not giving dude a chance for…Goes something like this:

      Friend: “And girl, so what he’s got a job, no kids, no criminal record, lives alone but still visits him parents on the weekend? He’s five nine!”

      Me: You know what? You damn right! You should be offended, cause I’m offended for you. Matter fact, what’s his number so I can call him and express my outrage properly?

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  7. i’m 5’3” so unless dude is an extra from Charlie & the Chocolate Factory, i’m good. But if he is, well hey, I don like the look of it *oompa loompa voice* LOL. But seriously I think there are OTHER stereotypes about height/feet/hands that also go in to play. If a guy is small… he may be…small… sooo yea…

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    • For clarification, i’m not saying i agree with that last part. I just think that is where some of the bias comes from…

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      • because I have been the unwilling recipient of many cellphone genital pictures and men desperately feel the need to pull their wee-wees out in my presence i can say that the height/feet/hands thing is not true. i’ve seen basketball height black men with very (very small) packages and I’ve seen the 5’9 guy with a pretty great package. i’m 100% convinced there is nothing to that whole stereotype, including the one about black male endowment lol

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        • Yeah, unfortunately for us the height thing is so not a good indicator. The shortest guy I dated (I think he was like 5’6 or 5’7) is up near the top of my list in terms of package impressiveness. A few taller/bigger guys also float near the bottom of the same list. The most impressive still goes to the tallest guy I’ve ever been with, but those anomalies in the middle always throw me for a loop.

          All of this is from the experience of my formerly heathen ways. As you all know, I am celibate (60 hours and counting).

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          • I’m sorry Liz but I think its very rude of you to copy and paste things from my diary. Lol

            Seriously though. I’ve had my share and they came in a variety of shapes, sizes and colors and some of them threw me completely off. There was one guy who was 5’4″ and I looked at IT with that “I hope you don’t think that’s fitting in me” look. And then there was another guy who was 6’5″ and I looked at IT and laughed so hard I gave my own damn self an orgasm.

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          • Liz
            re: your celibacy

            YAY you go girl… It works if you work it so work it you’re worth it (that is said at the end of support group meetings and the such) i’m rooting for you!!!!

            SN: in regards to male member size there is only ONE way to know… to see it in the flesh.. i’ve been, found a twenty in the street pleasantly surprised and dingo took my baby distraught before, there is no walk, hand/foot size, height etc that will let you know what’s below… ?

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            • DEAD @ “dingo took my baby distraught.” With that, I’m off to bed. I’m 5’3 and I’m married to a man who is 5’11. I have nothing of substance to add.

              Night Night…

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              • Be prepared for a whole lotta hate mail when you wake up this morning! You’re 5’3 and he’s 5’11? They just lost one! No Lauryn Hill.

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                • Is 5’11 considered tall? My boyfriend is about 5’11, but at 5’8 I’m taller than him when I wear heels, so I would put 5’11 in that average category. NY is ok lol.

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                • Yeah, as a 5’11″ woman with a 6’5″ husband she’s good to go; no hate from me. Now if she said something about her 6’9″ husband…actually, I’d still be good. If you ara a tallish woman you might feel like you lost one, but for the legitimately tall women, I think a 5’11″ dude is considered about average.

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                • @Gem

                  see people on here telling me they thought i was short (i’m 5’9″ and 6/8ths bump it 5’10″) and i’m gonna be honest and say i thought you were TALL

                  goes to show these AVIs aren’t telling the whole story

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                  • LOL!!!!! i know right?? it was strange to meet ppl at #ThreeDeez and them not be the heigh you expected them to be based on a head shot (o_O)

                    but fa real doe, my goonability makes me appear to be an amazon so *shrug*

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                • I am 5’3″ and don’t give 2 dambs about height. I prefer 5’6-5’9 but if you are taller or shorter….*shrugs* it’s just not that serious to me.

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            • LOL thanks for your support. I need it :) LOLLLLLL.

              I dunno there’s got to be something we can use for the litmus test without having to grope a dude up. Maybe something like baby hair on the back of his knuckles length, deepness of voice, how long he can balance on one foot–SOMETHING!!!

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              • well deepness of voice is NOT it… i’ve seen a lot of p.enis (i am a nurse) and the voice is not even close to being an indicator… now maybe this balancing on one foot thing… hmmm seeing that if it leaned a little to the left or right would mess up his equilibrium or something now that may be something that needs investigating!!!!

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                • LMAO! YES! I forgot nurses and medical professionals would have an inside track! *rubs hands together* what do you think it could be????

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              • I have devised a strategy… Lol. Bear with me. It’s not anything tangible though… but have you seen the man that apparently shouldn’t have many reasons to be completely confident borderline cocky? Have you ever met that guy? Like he would talk to a pretty girl with relaxed and calm confidence or he will just be quietly smiling and flirting? That guy I have found out more often than not has GREAT stroke game and 9 times out of 10 is very well endowed…

                So that’s my litmus test… But it takes paying close attention… My friends and I call it D!ck Confidence (yeah we are creative like that. Lol)…. and it seems to be working for them. ;)

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                • *whispers* I mean I didn’t wanna say this outloud, but YES!!! According to my research, I have concluded with the SAME findings. Hmmmm….you’re right. I need to start paying closer attention to some of these dudes.

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                • i agree… add to that they NEVER talk about sex, their p.enis or seem pressed to show it to you/get you in the bed… YES they already know they got it going on!!!!! Sula you get the gold ?

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        • Say what? On some real has that ever worked on women, cuz I don’t get why guys still do it? I feel like this doesn’t work for most black women in general, if you’re tryna sleep with her. If it didnt’ work for Brett Favre, take a hint mah ninja.

          I mean, if she aint feeling you, she’s probably just gonna show her friends how desperately u tryna get at her, while laughing about it with them. #Nobueno

          But seriously though, where’s the logic in doing this as a single guy, if it’s widely unsuccessful?

          Reply ↓

          • WUT

            i’m gonna be honest since we are kinsmen and all.. i have been on the receiving end of some very lovely photographs of beautiful male phallic specimens. now did this make me run and jump on the piece? no but it did make me think long & hard about it about it… that’s a pro and that i believe is why men do it in the first place…

            on the other side i have gotten some pics where i’m thinking to myself, seriously? this is what you send to get a girl’s appetite wet? what is this trash? you couldn’t have lotioned it up? what’s up with the bad lightening? is it even erect? and so on and so forth

            Reply ↓

            • wow….that was uh…alot. specifically the way you described it.#TMI, But I do see that it isn’t as unsuccessful as I presumed. A 50/50 success rate….i get it now.

              lmao at u calling it trash though.

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              • At 1:51 am Yoles is entitled to do the TMI thing. Besides it’s a Blackplanet/Myspace thing you wouldn’t understand.

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            • ” seriously? this is what you send to get a girl’s appetite wet? what is this trash? you couldn’t have lotioned it up? what’s up with the bad lightening? is it even erect? and so on and so forth”

              LMAO!!!

              I CANNOT wait to meet you in NYC!!!!

              Reply ↓

            • Paynis pics are one of my favorite forms of entertainment. I always find the “let’s measure the peen against random objects lying around the house” pictures.

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              • LOL, next to remote controls n ish… that sir, is unsanitary LOL. Also maybe it’s me, but I don’t want to see that. Do dudes want to see up close pics of vajay jay????? Don nobody wanna see that. Show me some abs, a nice smile, a nice back but u can keep the peen pics lol.

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            • i have been on the receiving end of some very lovely photographs of beautiful male phallic specimens

              OK, when I read this I feel like I have been missing out on stuff and sh!t… why did that never happened to me? Lol!! I am curious to know who are the guys who actually send those pics? Are those guys women are already engaged with (in that case I understand) or just some random dudes? The latter would be muy disturbing yo! :)

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          • I’mma tell you like I told my tumblr the other day: a man better not ever send me a peen pic and expect a nice reaction back from me. I WILL take said pics, color process them, and then distribute them to my girlfriends so we can all have a hearty laugh at his expense. chances are, I’ve seen one bigger than yours…..so you sending me this photo is doing nothing for me regardless of your size. but, his size doesn’t matter in this equation (big or unbig). we’re laughing. why? because he thought it was cute to pose with his phone and his peen. I dunno why men do this! women are not as visually turned on like men are, so a peen pic is not gonna get anything much more then a “meh” or “ooh” response, but it will be short and meaningless response to us lol. I laugh at these men because I think it’s funny they don’t really understand women enough to know this up front. Unless she asks for the pic, don’t do it.

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          • re: Brett Favre

            Am I the only one who would’ve had a different reaction to the cellphone pic, if you were in ole’ girl’s shoes?

            If that was me, I am positive that I would’ve sent that pic to every one of my homegurls with the caption of ‘Gurl, guess what this ninja had sent me!’

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    • Hold on. Let me just dispel this rumor right now. My late grandmother told me the following at the tender age of 23 (swear to God): “short men hang heavy.” Now it took me a minute to get this because you know, I’m sweet and all. But it’s true. Don’t sleep on short men, you just might get hurt.

      Reply ↓

    • Hehehehe, people say that, but it’s so not true. And truly, you have to factor in proportions. The shorter/skinnier the man, the more impressive an 8″ thickum handle looks. Put the same package on a small forward with thick thighs and it ain’t nothing to sneeze at, but you lose some of the wow factor.

      Reply ↓

      • I feel you on this one! The biggest I have ever come into contact with was a tie. One guy was 6’8 the other was 5’8. On the guy that was 6’8 it looked like that was what was supposed to be there. On the 5’8er it looked like a m’fn monster! lol!

        Reply ↓

    • If a guy is small… he may be…small… sooo yea…

      Don’t let that fool you. I would like to call into evidence, law of conservation of mass (Lavoisier): “Nothing gets lost, nothing gets created, everything is transformed”….
      So what they might be lacking in height, they make up… in other ways…

      (and I have empirical proof). :)

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  8. I don’t hear too many women say an actual height preference. I tend to hear more that they want a guy to be a certain number of inches taller than them. I think it has to do with the uber-erotic forehead kiss (a la The Best Man). Not as erotic if you have to squat.

    Personally, at 5’7, I just wanted a guy taller than me if I could get it. Luckily, my husband is about 7 inches taller.

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  9. like i said yesterday don’t sleep on us shorter men. it really bothers me when short women always try to date taller men. what about us? we don’t get any love? as a short man i can protect a woman just as much as a man who is 6’10.

    you’re right. when it you break it down to the core women liking taller me is all about physical attraction. it is what it is. i have physical attractions as well. i don’t like weaves. i like flat stomachs and a good T&A ratio. look at me now.

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  10. I think you are totally spot on with this entire post. At the end of the day you decide your dating pool. If you limit yourself (and that is exactly what you are doing) by putting all these qualifiers on your potential boo then you forfeit all rights to be salty about your lack of eligible mates. If you need a tall man to validate you as a woman, then guess what, it’s time to put on your big girl panties.

    Reply ↓

    • I would also like to add, I think everyone has a right to a preference, I also have a right to think your preference is stupid.C’est la vie

      Reply ↓

    • Best comment of the day (as of 1:30am)…

      SN: While I appreciate the song dedication, I don’t feel quite right being referred to as ‘Shawty’….it doesn’t sit well with my soul, I tell ya…lol

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    • i don’t think it’s that simple. here’s an example from senior pub crawl tonight:

      dude: pls tell me you’re wearing heels b/c you’re making me mad uncomfortable
      me: (looks down) eh, maybe 2″ boots
      dude: good. i only deal with girls who are 5’4″ or under so I don’t feel short when they wear heels or chicks that are 5’11″ or more so I can say I have a trophy on my arm.
      me: o.0 ok then, i was just tryna get to the bathroom…

      it’s just that shorter dudes have all these issues/requirements. what is a girl who will be pushing 6′ when out to do?! i can’t tell you how many times a dude has told me to take off my shoes so I won’t be taller than him. dudes limit themselves, therefore a height requirement can protect yourself from that. like i said up thread, i’m only 5’8″ so i can’t imagine what taller girls must have to deal with

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      • ” i can’t imagine what taller girls must have to deal with”

        Don’t cry for me (Argentina).

        My height has never held me back from attracting men/getting dates of any/all sizes/heights. Usually men who lack confidence won’t step to me anyway…and those actually verbalize that they are intimidated by my height? The conversation gets cut short REAL quick!

        Reply ↓

        • Co-sign. And what self-respecting man would ever ask a woman to take off her shoes, for THAT reason? Those dudes are losers.

          Reply ↓

        • the dudes that i’m referencing are just friends, so nobody was stepping to anybody lol. eh, idk if that changes things…

          please believe there are no tears here, it’s just funny how people claim that women are the ones limiting themselves when I only see guys being wary.

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      • chicks that are 5’11? or more so I can say I have a trophy on my arm.

        That was ignorant of him to tell you, but I will admit that as a tall woman, I kinda dig feeling like a trophy when I wear my heels. I let my imagination go and pretend like I’m this glamorous model walking around with my rich, powerful man lol. Of course, when the heels come off we’re both just regular kids in love, but the role playing I do in my mind makes me okay with being taller than him in my heels. Coping strategy maybe?

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      • Yes! shorter guys definitely have height requirements too. It’s not just from the ladies.

        I’m still hoping for my growth spurt (I pretty much reach my adult height at age 11) so I was standing up on a stool to demonstrate how tall I feel I should be. My guy friend (who’s no shorty himself) was like, at that height, “you would get no dick.” smh

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    • If you need a tall man to validate you as a woman, then guess what, it’s time to put on your big girl panties.

      this is far beyond applicable to things other than height. well stated.

      and you remind me of my mom talking about “put on your big girl panties”–she says it ALL the time

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  11. Well considering I’m 5′ almost 3 and my husband is 6’3 and the fact that I’ve only dated 1 dude under 6’0 in my life.. I don’t have much room to comment.
    However I’m not anti- short. It just so happens that. Tall men also happen to like short women. Its the attraction of opposites.
    I’m really justifying bull shyt lol. But bottom line you can have a preference but there should be some flexibility there
    Except for midgets. No midget/dwarfs.

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    • I could buy that tall men like short women. if only because short women gives the illusion of femininity. Which, by the way, may be the reason we don’t want short men: shortness = feminine. Not really about high heels, not really about your muscles (or lack thereof). Shortness is just a feminine-like trait, and I think both sexes agree (unknowingly) to some extent.

      I think I read somewhere that they attributed the black male-white female couple popularity due to the height factor. Black men tend to be tall, and white women tend to be short…..so that’s why you see them together all the time. I dunno tho. This doesn’t explain Taye Diggs.

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        • shortness = feminine
          W…T…F…
          See this is the kind of talk that will get a tall dude beat up today for a normally benign short joke.

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          • Don’t take it personal but….it’s kinda true. When you think of femininity you think of small, frail, tiny, cute etc. Somehow that’s just how we are programmed in our society, and sad to say….shortness infers smallness. You can’t really ignore that.

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          • I will avoid you today then. VSB may have made us tall brothers targets today. First we have to pay extra for clothes, stand on the back of club pics, and now we have to watch our backs because the mini men are in hate mode. Thanks a lot.

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            • Hey you ain’t the only one droppin extra for clothes. I might be short but tipping the scales at nicely over 200 doesn’t bode well for me at the register. They don’t make clothes for guys built like me.

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      • Interesting thought Liz, but I gotta raise a few issues

        Then what would you say about those who feel that the supposed models are the standards of feminine beauty? Sure one can account for the fashion designers and their mindsets, etc, but then what of the myriads of women who look up to these fashion models and consider them to be feminine, beautiful, etc, despite them not having a “feminine like” trait? Surely there must be some femininity in the tall women who don’t have “feminine like” traits for so many women to look up to them in terms of female beauty.

        I see where you’re going with this Liz, but I don’t want people to warp this, twist it, turn it, and mangle it into ascribing height or lack thereof with femininity or masculinity. I have met some beautiful girls over 5’8,” and to cast them off because they don’t have a feminine like trait would be shallow and wrongheaded. I’m not saying that you would do this, as you yourself are over 5’9” but instead I’m saying that anyone who would look at a 5’9” pretty girl with a side eye because she’s tall, would be foolish.

        I’ve met a girl who was 5’3″ and a SUPER NINJA- she’s like a mini thug in a girl’s body, except she don’t hurt nobody- and I’ve also encountered girls over 6′ who couldn’t be daintier. You’re right that it shortness gives a women the “illusion of femininity” because as the previous sentence explains, I’ve found that femininity is more about who you are and not so much about your body frame, height, etc. Tall women can be incredibly feminine too…

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        • Sure there are always gonna be outliers, and obviously we are humans with personalities and our own unique preferences (i.e. its why tall men can also like tall women as much as they want)….but i think the general line of thought exists. It’s why a super tall giant woman would be called something like Big Bertha because she’s so freaking huge and huge = masculine. Shoot, look at any women’s basketball player. A lot of them are seen as manly to people, loosely because of their ‘abnormal’ height. Of course, I am talking mostly about the extremes here, but the sentiment does exist around the averages as well.

          Models, I think are an anomaly in the sense that they are groomed for beauty and they are forced down our throats in popular media. There’s a machine behind them telling us they’re pretty, which they are, but more importantly they’re chosen for their height due to the demands of the fashion industry (ie clothes lay better on tall people, or something to that effect). Also, most models are not as tall as you would think they are. They probably range from 5’9 to maybe 6’0. But I am generally talking about women above that, so over 6’0″ Lisa Leslie for example is like 6’5″. The more extreme you get with height, the more this theory can be explained. So, I think in the middle average areas, people may still have this line of thought. I wish I could do an experiment on it but I can’t really change my height to figure it out lol.

          also, I am NOT saying tall women CAN’T be feminine. Obviously they can, because femininity means other things besides height. Short men CAN be masculine, because masculinity also means more than just height. but, generally speaking this could allude as to why black women are seen as masculine, and asian men are seen as feminine: black women are taller than other races of women (like blacks in general) and asian men are shorter than other races of men (like asians in general). Height seems to influence this somehow.

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      • “shortness = feminine.” but what about my super sexy long legs?? are they just chopped liver?!?!?!?!

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      • Eh, black women statistically are shorter than white women. Anecdotally, in most of the BM/WW relationships I’ve seen, the man and woman have been close to the same height. I call shenanigans on your swirl premise.

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        • Yeah I didn’t buy it explaining swirlyness but the concept of height and femininity and masculinity kinda stuck with me to ponder.

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          • Even if there were such a correlation, I’m not sure that it would work as a justification. If one googles “skin pigmentation (or color or tone) dimorphism” one will see that complexion is correlated with gender and that across groups women tend to be lighter than men, implying that light skin is a “feminine” trait as much as height is a “masculine” trait. Yet I suspect that people wouldn’t buy this as a scientific justification for male skin tone preferences.

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      • Tall men perfer tall women. It’s the quantity of shorter that gives them an advantage. Let not forget heels. 5′ 9″ becomes 6′ with a 3″ heel and that evens the playing field. By the way who deceided the cut off. At 6′ 5″ short to me us under 5′ 8″, but with the right attitude an exception can be made.

        Reply ↓

      • I think liz may be on to something. Just because height isn’t the only determinant in perceptions of femininity and masculinity doesn’t mean it isn’t a significant one, all things being equal.

        Reply ↓

        • LOL. I’m not sure I believe this explains interracial dating but it could explain our general perceptions of masculinity and femininity.

          Reply ↓

    • it seems as if in this situation opposites attracting only work for men. tall men like short women, and short men like ‘tall’ women. however, tall women don’t like short men and these comments make it seem like short women don’t even like short men. so something in that opposite attraction law is failing…

      Reply ↓

    • I think where black men are concerned when short women are well endowed with T & A it’s more obvious a contrast as opposed to a tall woman with similar horizontal measurements, may not stand out as much.

      Reply ↓

      • Very true. I’m 36-25-37, but at 5’8 I just look kind of skinny and straight up and down (with clothes on). If I was a few inches shorter with those same measurements, I would be noticeably stacked.

        Reply ↓

        • Shouldn’t have added the “with clothes on” addendum lol sorry…I really wasn’t trying to get R rated.

          Reply ↓

      • And this whole thread is WHY I’ll be wearing a tight dress in NYC as opposed to the jeans and sweater of DC!

        Hmmmph!

        Reply ↓

        • Lol yes girl, do that! :) I love when I’m wearing something form-fitting and people look at my @ss like wait, where did THAT come from?

          Reply ↓

    • @Shay

      im in a similar place. the 2 men ive had serious relationships with are both a whole foot taller than me. while i like the look of a tall man, i certainly dont require a man to be THAT tall. like ive mentioned before, 5’9″ is tall to me.

      and im ok with admitting i dont like men shorter than me with our heels both touching the ground. if i can overlook a dude in a crowd like i do MsEsquire77, we cant get it poppin.

      Reply ↓

  13. I am 5’7 and 3/4”. I am the shortest girl in my family among the cousins. All the males in my family are 6+ plus. All my life I’ve had to look up to people…I’ve been conditioned damnit. lol

    The truth is, I don’t judge harshly on height. I try my best not to. A good person is a good person regardless if they’re vertically challenged. I already know my future kids will be hybrid tall and intelligent (at least that’s what I’m bringing to the table). I just don’t want them to be the last ones picked in dodgeball.

    Yes, I like to wear my heels (which puts me at 5’11) but so what? They make my legs look good. I don’t mind seeing eye to eye with a guy but I don’t want to break my neck to talk to them either. As for preferences? I can go an inch shorter than me or a max of 6’4.

    Point is, everyone likes what they like….I mean we’re all pink on the inside right?

    Reply ↓

  14. Tall chicks are equally discriminated against. I’m 5’8 3/4 (5’9) and I can’t tell you how many 5’9-5’10ish guys confessed that I was too tall for them.

    Reply ↓

    • lol yup. I think this goes back to that height and femininty issue. just like short men = feminine, i think tall women = not feminine. certainly this isn’t gospel but…I kinda do think generally speaking, some people unknowingly think this way.

      Reply ↓

    • Yep. I have noticed the difference since I have gotten older. Shorter guys definitely holla’d in high school and I did date a guy 5’6 in high school. Went to his prom with him and everything. Of course our pictures were of us facing each other, lol.

      Reply ↓

    • Yes! Or, you may not be too tall for them to approach, but they feel some kind of way when you pull out the extra tall stilettos and you are noticeably taller than them. Or you guys are standing on an incline and he’s on the lower side and has to look up to you.

      Reply ↓

    • “I can’t tell you how many 5’9-5’10ish guys confessed that I was too tall for them.”

      They were being polite

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  15. Some women EARN their “forever alone” status because of this. I’ve seen first hand, someone who is a bit too close to the description of the shallow homegirl. And the heffa wonders why she’s always the bridesmaid (or one night stand of the best man) and never the bride. Ma’am, have a seat.

    I understand not wanting a man who’s shorter than you but the whole “My man needs to be at least 6’4 thing is dumb. Unless you’re Candace Parker. Or Lisa Leslie. Then it makes sense. For the rest of us shorties, getchu a piece of a short man sometime. You’ont gotta hurt your neck tryna kiss him out in public cuz you gotta be on your tippy toes. OWWWW!!!

    Reply ↓

  16. I’m completely comfortable letting women have their own crackhead logic height requirements so long as I’m not scolded for preferring to date a woman with certain a$$ to waist ratio and Sanaa Lathans complexion lol

    For women who buy into the whole taller guy=better protection……yeah :D
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TdjxSVVRevk#t=3m40s

    On a neutral ground one of the only advantages of being with a tall dude is a longer stride for ya’ll two to run away lol

    Reply ↓

  17. Being a shorter lady (5’3″ same height since 5th grade), I will and have dated guys that are average and below average height. Tall guys are cool and all but I don’t want to have to stand on a chair or wear 7 inch heels to be eye to eye with my dude.

    Reply ↓

  18. I’ll be back to comment in the morning. I’m tired and now I have to find out how much a lip model can make.

    Reply ↓

    • *rifles through my purse*

      I got $87.37, can I rent them for an hour?

      *grabs the jalapeno jelly with high hopes*

      Reply ↓

      • I can’t endorse Colgate. I use the Paul Mooney system. Every morning I wake up and say “ni**er” 10 times. Keeps my teeth white.

        Reply ↓

    • Good Morning! Hey…. I got a mini-thread. More on that later.

      Sooo, I’ve got a little secret. You ready. Okay, unlike a lot of men, I’m not a T& A man (they’re a plus but not all that). BUT…. I love a woman with some legs. If you have some shapely stems then you automatically cue the McDonald’s theme song in my mind.

      Now does this mean I’ll discriminate against shorter women? …….wait for it……………. HELL NAW!

      Attractive Woman + Act Right = Some of my attention

      Now for all of you with advanced degrees in Chick Logic. All I have for you is this. There is NO COUNTRY FOR WHINING WOMEN WHO ARE GETTING IN THEIR OWN WAY!

      I, like most men, enjoy the WHOLE BUFFET of women. Don’t get mad when I can keep a full plate and keep coming back to the table with a wide variety and you stay waiting for them to put out some more chicken. (Why he had to say Chicken?) There’s more than that on the line. Why don’t you try something else?

      Truth be told, I’d approach women over 6 feet before I would any under 5. You can be taller than me. IDGAF! I know who I am. I know I’m done growing. A lot of y’all saw me at “Deez”, I’m not the tallest cat in the room add your make it purr joke here and that’s fine with me. Taller woman = more leg = happy day.

      #thatisall

      Reply ↓

      • Hey now sir, just because you’re short doesn’t mean you don’t have a great pair of legs! I’m 5’0, my legs are nice and shapely and LONG for my height (about the same length of a woman 5’6…i’ve checked).

        Wait…did I just give a bad visual? I promise I’m not deformed!

        SHORT WOMEN CAN HAVE LEGS TOO!

        Reply ↓

        • Like I said I won’t discriminate against the shorties. Nice legs are nice legs. Longer would be nice, but I won’t shy away from a shorter pair.

          Reply ↓

          • ugh, you have that problem too?! So much for the sexy one-pieces and high-waisted pants/skirts. :( lol

            Reply ↓

      • *makes eye contact with TWIsM*
        *shifts eyes to my avi*
        *wiggles eyebrows at TWIsM and gestures to the jelly*

        Boy, stop playing…

        Reply ↓

  19. An 6’1” man whipping a F-150? Cool. A 5’5” man whipping a F-150? Overcompensating.

    I’m 5’8.5″ and I get a lot of side-eye when I hop out of my Toyota Tundra. I’m a contractor. What am supposed to drive? A Civic? You can’t put a steam boiler in the back of a Civic.

    Reply ↓

    • I’m a contractor. What am supposed to drive? A Civic? You can’t put a steam boiler in the back of a Civic

      lmbo… that’s hilarious!

      Reply ↓

    • Ha! I admit I did look sideways at a 5’0″ dude jumping out of an Excursion. Now? I’m glad a man has a ride instead of having to depend on MARTA. If he can top off the tank without cursing with these gas prices? Now that’s sexy.

      Reply ↓

    • “…I’m 5’8.5? and I get a lot of side-eye when I hop out of my Toyota Tundra. I’m a contractor. What am supposed to drive? A Civic? You can’t put a steam boiler in the back of a Civic…”

      Sh*t, you’re a man with a job. IMO, that is all that matters in that situation.

      Reply ↓

  20. Hmm I dont know. Most of my friends have reasonable preferences. Anyone I consider to be short must REALLY be short given that I barely made it into non-midgetry at 5 feet on the dot. I consider someone 5 6 to be quite tall lol.
    Tall guys look so…. long…. to me.
    I think short women who want tall guys are thinking of their children. Even with my love of mid-size men I sometimes worry about the fate of any children I have if I end up with a short man when I settle down. Poor things.

    Reply ↓

    • Double cosing on the looking out for our children. I’m 5’1 and I used to would not date or talk to guys under 6 feet. Shallow? Yes, I know. But as I got older (I’m 25), I realize how silly this is. And my only requirement is that he we are at least the same height with heels on. But I am concerned about future children. Short people tend to have short children. But oh well, maybe they will be girls….I’m kidding.

      Reply ↓

    • At 5’9″ I felt relatively free in my choice of men, particularly in regard to the height of my future offspring. So I very happily married a 5’10″ dude knowing that my height alone could guarantee at least some height to my sons. I just needed my man to have enough height, no need to get greedy.

      Reply ↓

    • “I think short women who want tall guys are thinking of their children. ”

      ^THIS.

      All about genetics and producing (tall) healthy offspring. I’m only 5’5”, but I like tall men. Not to say that “shorter” men don’t get play, but again it’s a preference. Doesn’t mean that they guy I’ll end up with will be gargantuan (though…it would be sweet as heck, lol).

      Reply ↓

      • I meant “the”, not they.

        I swear, I didn’t fail English. It’s actually my one of my stonger subjects. :)

        Reply ↓

      • I don’t believe this. Why will my children “suffer” because they’re short? And, as many have stated, the height isn’t guaranteed anyway. I hope those women realize having a healthy baby is a blessing; the baby’s height or lack thereof is an afterthought. The stats say tall people are more successful, but I’m sure they also say people with parents that gave a f- are more successful too. That part you can control, LOL.

        Reply ↓

        • “And, as many have stated, the height isn’t guaranteed anyway.”

          I’ll say it again. I’m 5’1. My mom’s 4’11 and dad’s 6’3. So I definitely can attest to the fact that the man’s height is NO guarantee! I’m “shorty.” No, really. That’s the nickname my dad has called me since I can remember.

          Reply ↓

        • “And, as many have stated, the height isn’t guaranteed anyway.”

          Yep, in my case I’m 5’1. Mom’s 4’11 and dad’s 6’3. So I definitely got the short end of the stick. Literally.

          Reply ↓

        • WIP,

          No you’re right. I know short parents who produced amazon kids. Turns out, the parent’s parents were tall people, but had ‘genes’/traits that produced small kids. *shrugs*

          However, I’ve seen someone of my height with a 6′someithing dude that produced a tall baby as well. Second baby was mom’s height. So again…..*shrugs*

          Baby making is like russian roulette. Never know where the ball is going to land.

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  21. I like this post, Champster.

    A long time ago, when I was 24, (about 7 months ago), I had an issue dating guys who weren’t at least more taller than me than my tallest heel. However, then, I came in contact with the guy I was dating at the time with my tallest heel, 5″. Yep, I was taller than him with these shoes on, so, I decided, “I won’t wear these shoes when we go out together.” Problem solved.

    I believe women do this for a couple of reasons:

    1) As you mentioned, it’s about appearances. Many women shoot guys down b ecuase of what the “crew” might think of him. Same reason so many of us desire large rocks on finger right of the pinky…to show up our girlfriends. Not right, but many of us still do it.

    2) I don’t need to tell the man who wrote the awesome book (btw, a book club I frequent decided to make the VSB guide to fighting crime the selection of the month), that women are analyzers. As a result, this is what happens in many of our heads..peep game.

    Girl meets guy. Guy says hi. Girl looks guy from head to toe paying particular attention to guy’s shoes, teeth, complexion, and HEIGHT. Girl IMMEDIATELY fast forwards 18.92yrs to son she’s had by guy after a HUGE wedding and 1.5 children. Yep, the .5 comes in because girl decided to “take a chance on love” and marry and allow short guy to smang it. Short guy’s genes were overpowering and shame, son has inherited that height. As a result, resulting in a .5 on percentage of a person scale. THEN, said son goes through the tom foolery of being judged based on his height.

    WOMEN JUST CAN’T TAKE THEIR SON GOING THROUGH THAT. Absurd? HELLLLL YEAH..True? HELLLL YEAH

    Reply ↓

    • lol i think of the son thing too and then i realize i have taken a science class and recessive genes makes me realize wait it doesnt really matter because its all luck of the draw.

      Reply ↓

    • “Girl meets guy. Guy says hi. Girl looks guy from head to toe paying particular attention to guy’s shoes, teeth, complexion, and HEIGHT. Girl IMMEDIATELY fast forwards 18.92yrs to son she’s had by guy after a HUGE wedding and 1.5 children. Yep, the .5 comes in because girl decided to “take a chance on love” and marry and allow short guy to smang it. Short guy’s genes were overpowering and shame, son has inherited that height. As a result, resulting in a .5 on percentage of a person scale. THEN, said son goes through the tom foolery of being judged based on his height.”

      THIS. i told a guy who was interested in me who was 6’8″ and wore a size 17 shoe that we could never date bc if we had daughters… oh lawd. nooooo. lol. i just didn’t want to do that to my chirren. not even so much that they’d be tall, but i don’t want my daughter to be able to palm a yoga ball and have to special order shoes. that would suck. lol.

      see, it works both ways. lol

      Reply ↓

      • I guess it does. Poor daughter that could’ve been. She’s then going on the tyra banks show talking about she has the hardest time finding shoes and she has to wear men’s gym shoes because that’s all she can find. Bless you, Muze, bless you for sheltering your offspring from such despair.

        Reply ↓

      • Lol I’m 5’11″ and I dated a guy who’s 6’9″ and as sexy as it was, I dreaded the thought of having a daughter with him. Sure if we had a son, he’d be drafted into the NBA at the age of 13n but my poor baby girl would be nicknamed sasquatch. He actually already has a 2 year old daughter (who’s mother is 5’10″) and she’s 4 inches taller than my almost 3 year old daughter (who’s father is 5’10″). I think as fun as the sex, spooning, and standing on my tip toes to kiss him was, we definitely avoided disaster. Lol

        Reply ↓

        • not Sasquatch!! i actually prefer Yeti.. the “Y” is a s.exier letter, giving her a little bit more femininity

          Reply ↓

        • Lol. I think tall women are hot, especially when they’re graceful and well put-together. I wouldn’t mind have a tall daughter.

          Reply ↓

  22. “… like you need that extra two inches to help fend off the woolly mammoths and foaming crackheads of the Saks Fifth Serengeti. F*ckers.”
    Why must you keel me this time of night *lol*? I never had a preference for height; standing at just 5’2″, I have no problem with dating men who are at or a little above my height. I don’t like the thought of some man towering over me like some kind of f*cking giant, gives me all sorts of chills. If me and him click and can get something going, wth should I care about his height?

    Reply ↓

  23. “…how do you feel about the completely illogical height preferences phenomenon?”

    Height never was an issue. I’m the midget in a family of giants (everyone is 5’10″ and over) but honestly it just doesn’t come up. Luckily I look like all them or else we woulda had a dead mailman – lol! It’s always been assumed that my offspring will be have the height gene that I have hidden somewhere.

    “This state of mind also affects how we categorize behavior. An asshole who happens to be 6’3”? Just an asshole. A 5’3” asshole? An example of Napoleon syndrome. An 6’1” man whipping a F-150? Cool. A 5’5” man whipping a F-150? Overcompensating.”

    But isn’t generalization based on outward appearance always a part of life? Haven’t we all heard:
    - Fat people eat a lot
    - Black people eat ________ (insert one of the following – fried chicken, watermelon, any type of pork, sunflower seeds, etc.)
    - All Latinos are from Mexico
    - All Mexicans sell oranges
    - All tall people are good at basketball

    Wouldn’t we have to date the 5’5″ man in the F-150 to find out if he really IS overcompensating??

    Reply ↓

  25. Like I said in my post yesterday, I’m a tall chick (5’9) so my dating preference are men that are taller than me. I don’t think that’s illogical. Shortest guy I’ve dated 5’7. Tallest? 6’8. Most of the men, I’ve dated were above 6 feet, my immediate ex was 6’5. I make no apolgies. I don’t get upset when kats don’t prefer proud members of #teamchunk, such as myself. So, why should dudes get all hot because I don’t want a short dude? It’s all about preference.

    Reply ↓

    • thank you…

      men stay saying no fat chicks.. do i grumble, complain, pop blood vessels explaining what i great catch i am?!?!? nope i take the L and keep it moving… my height preference is logical… i’m BIG.. not just tall but solid/big/full/figured/fat/whatever its being called nowadays… like i said up-thread i don’t want to feel like a bear when i am with a man… i’m a fcuking lady damnit!!!

      Reply ↓

  26. I’ve always preferred guys a few inches taller than me, but recently my list has evolved a lot. I find myself attracted to guys with great personalities, that I can be myself around, who fit my idea of attractiveness, and surprisingly some have been my height.

    Unfortunately though, as someone mentioned stereotypes come into play with shorter men too…if he’s vertically challenged, women wonder if his package is small…in some cases he can have the biggest ego/personality to compensate for his shortened height…etc.

    C’est la vie.

    Reply ↓

  27. Height really doesn’t faze me too much just not too short where your down to the crotch area (was that hypocritical??) or too tall, im 6’2 and my prom date was like 6’4 was kinda odd dancing with her didn’t even feel manly plus kept getting weave in my mouth, but n e way im the type of guy that tries to find beauty where most find hard and if that means adjusting my type which there is hardly one plus just don’t really care too much anymore… so be it

    Reply ↓

  28. I have been laughing the entire day about this one. But height is important to me. I don’t have to have a dude who’s 6′ but I do like a man that is taller than me. If we are the same height when I wear heels I’m fine. (I’m 5’9 in heels and by the standards of the previous post that guy is still short). As ridiculous as it may sound, its a feeling of security.
    I once went out with a guy who was 5’5 – he appeared taller because I was sitting down when I met him LOL. So we go out on our first date and I wear my 4″ heel. WTF did I do that – I looked like the leaning tower of Pisa talking to him at the bar. What made it even worse was a guy who was about 6’6 came to the bar and order a drink right over his head then tried to hollar like he wasn’t there. (aww poo poo) I was mortified for him and suggested we call it a night.
    So the 5’10 brotha you described Champ would have been a-ok with me.

    Reply ↓

    • what security? As a dude whose 5’8” trust i am secure even if your wearing 4” heels. You have me by 1”…in heels(which are not your real height).

      Lets call it what it is. HEELS ARE LIESSSS. They are not yalls real height. Dudes are legitimately taller than you. Almost as deceiving as a wonderbra.

      So please provide me with insight on what safety/security do you feel by being with a tall man?
      *Waits for response while watching local news to read about the 6’2 Waka Flocka’s who were gunned down in the streets*

      The reality is if ish pops off in 2011 height aint going to be nothing more than make me a easier target for the bullets.

      Reply ↓

      • “Lets call it what it is. HEELS ARE LIESSSS. They are not yalls real height. Dudes are legitimately taller than you. Almost as deceiving as a wonderbra.”

        this is extreme. lol. that’s another thing… a tall(er) man will never ever complain about my 4 inch heels. matter of fact, he’ll think they’re hot.

        Reply ↓

        • Correction: a SECURE man will never ever complain about your 4 inch heels. A secure guy of avg./below avg. height will think they’re hot as well. Hell, we like how they make your legs look, too.

          Reply ↓

            • As someone over 5’8 (5’11+) and under 6’1 I can actually see both perspectives. Women’s legs do look so ghot damn shapely in them heals. mmm There’s an avatar of someone up thread who’s calves keep distracting me, this whole time! (I’m looking at you Starita34 :)

              On the other hand, the heals are a lie. I think illusion is a more accurate term but whatever. It seems like if you can’t admit as a dude that the heals do be sexy sometimes then u might be demonstrating some self consciousness about height.

              I’ve dated girls that were taller with heals, and even asked them to wear them out. The point is if you look at them as if they are in fact taller than you and internalize that then nobody wins. Don’t be annoyed or frustrated that her legs thighs and @ss are genuinely enhanced a little by
              heals, appreciate the sexiness. So what if she’s taller with them on?

              Reply ↓

              • *full on blush*
                Thank you IET.

                Heels aren’t a lie any more than clothes are a lie. I mean, you can see the heel, weren’t not hiding them. A man wearing lifts is a lie, it involves deception. We’re just wearing fashionable shoes. Shoes that enhance our good features and make us appear taller, but I know I’m short. I have no illusions of being a tall chick. If someone asked me my height I wouldn’t say 5’9″ because that’s my usual height in heels, I’d say 5’5″ that’s MY height.

                If anything is a lie, BRAS are a lie…
                SH!T, did I just say that?

                Reply ↓

        • Heels are lies. So is makeup. So is a dude buying a table at the club when he didn’t pay his rent on time. They’re all misleading.

          I say when trying to figure out someone, don’t pay attention to what their actual appearance is; pay attention to what their appearance says about them. Instead of thinking, “Her hair is always fresh” think “either she really knows how to do hair or she’s willing to pay someone a lot of money to maintain it.” Instead of thinking “her toes are done well” think “she pays attention to detail.”

          At the end of the day, as I said on my blog yesterday, the things that will sustain a marriage won’t be their height or physical attributes… it’ll be the inside jokes, the way they raise kids and yadda yadda. That being said… preferences are legitimate. Just make sure you bring something to the table too.

          Reply ↓

      • “As a dude whose 5’8” trust i am secure even if your wearing 4” heels. You have me by 1”…in heels(which are not your real height). Lets call it what it is. HEELS ARE LIESSSS. They are not yalls real height. Dudes are legitimately taller than you…”

        As a fellow 5’8er, I approve of this whole comment.

        Reply ↓

        • “LIES”- I really didn’t think of it like that. So basically women are saying that “When I lie about my height to everyone you should not call me out on it inadvertently by being of average height.” PROFOUND!

          Reply ↓

        • Sign me up as well. FYI: Most really tall and really big dudes just LOOK safer. They really can’t fight well because they honestly never had to.

          Reply ↓

          • Where are we going to be in our adult life where we are getting tried like this? If a woman is involving me in these type of controversies she gotta go.

            Reply ↓

          • Yeah, this whole I feel safer with a tall guy concept is hella flawed. I’m damn near 5’8″, have a Green Belt in karate (Shotokan), and am a licensed concealed handgun carrier. I will drop a 6’5″er without fail.

            Reply ↓

              • It stems from the “I feel safer with a taller guy” comments that women keep mentioning. If there’s some other way that you feel safer with a tall guy beyond the potential outside threat of physical violence, please educate.

                Reply ↓

            • “have a Green Belt in karate (Shotokan), and am a licensed concealed handgun carrier.”

              I feel safer already….

              Reply ↓

        • y’all seem to be a little in your feelings. lol

          heels are lies? that’s like being jobless, wearing a suit jacket, and me calling you a liar about your unemployed status.

          you know how many black men have told me if i gained weight i’d be (insert “perfect” [yeah right] “great” or some such synonym) even though everyone who knows me knows that it is almost impossible for me to gain weight and keep it on? my frame is simply not meant to be thick. i’ve accepted it ..and on top of that, i don’t want to be.

          i’ve been hit on and dated for superficial reasons (hair, height, slimness, skintone) and had men tell me so. men STAY having solely aesthetic preferences and will definitely pick an ain’t ish beyonce over a clearlywifematerial michelle obama everyday all day, so i’m sorry, but i don’t feel bad for yall.

          Reply ↓

          • i’ve been hit on and dated for superficial reasons (hair, height, slimness, skintone) and had men tell me so. men STAY having solely aesthetic preferences and will definitely pick an ain’t ish beyonce over a clearlywifematerial michelle obama everyday all day, so i’m sorry, but i don’t feel bad for yall.

            100% co-sign. Man they hate it when the shoe is on the other foot, don’t they? I’m actually enjoying this a little bit. :) Not that I’m being cruel…it’s just funny.

            Reply ↓

        • I’m 5’8 plus a few mm. I tend to lean more towards the taller. But not because of height, I’ve dated guys close to my height (+/- 1″)…

          but what I canNOT stand, won’t stand at this point, is if a guy has shorter appendages than I: i.e. stubby/shorter arms, shorter legs, oddly smaller hands than I have, lacks broad shoulders. I like to be held–and that’s truly the extent of my size-shallowness. Be able to hold me and at least have our hips align when standing up…or lay down… …#treysongz:YUPP!

          I once dated a guy who was actually a solid 3-4 inches taller than me, but when he put his arm around me, it was like he was strugglin to cup my shoulder, left me all kinds of uncomfortable. I can’t say that my preference conscienciously has to do with the aforementioned “feeling of security.” I just love that feeling of being immursed in a dude’s arms–but, maybe it is a Freudian thing that makes me subconciously recall that feeling I got as a lil girl when my dad held me the same way. With old dude, I HATED/loathed the awkwardness. He, as many shorter men who’ve tried, lost all attractive points with me at that point. Just ain’t gonna work out brah. I’ll hate you and harbor resentment for your lack of wingspan.

          Reply ↓

      • Heels are shoes not lies! I said feel secure with a man taller than me not a tall man and my dear 5’9 isn’t tall. There is a clear distinction. You being 1″ shorter than my heels is not a problem for me – but being 4-5″ short than my heels is. My feelings My preference!

        BTW men’s shoes have at least a 1″ heel so are you really 5’7?
        Carry on with your local area news……..

        Reply ↓

          • lol no i was going off floor height w/o shoes so really id be 5’9 if i were wearing boots. Most dudes shoes arent giving us a full 1” height raise day to day.

            Reply ↓

  29. As a vertically challenged brother this subject hits home. I have no problem with chicks who are tall requesting dudes with height, it makes sense. But short women though? Ninja please go somewhere with that ish!

    I do not think folks are truly aware of the average height and how rare it is for a man to be “tall.” I strongly urge people to take a statistics class because it may help the dating game. Alot of folks are really out here in these streets asking for alot of extra ish. My friend remarked the other day that my friend who is 5’11 was not tall enough for her, she is 5’7” 0_o Do you really feel safer with a man with height? Tall ninjas get shot/shanked JUST the same. Ninjas aint fighting out here they are shooting, and I hope as a woman she is not bringing me into unnecessary conflicts.

    I was destined to remain 5’8 and hope that my FICO score can makeup for the height difference. Until then i will just continue to laugh at the COUNTLESS women i hear discussing their “ideal” man. Hold fast to dreams, but the numbers dont lie.

    Reply ↓

    • And what MANY women don’t get is that, you are average height. Many of us would say you’re short. Unfortuantely for women who require potenial boo-piece to be 6’2 is eliminating most men.

      Reply ↓

      • yah so when you limit over half for height, dang near 70% for a degree, even more if you want an advanced degree the next question becomes so what does this attractive male who has the world going for him, open to date ALL races, who has women swarming after him want to settle down for?

        Reply ↓

    • @coldsweat3

      its like chris rock said “you got pecs, we got techs” lmao i feel u on this evryone does get shot/shanked the same i will make sure it never happens to me

      Reply ↓

    • “As a vertically challenged brother this subject hits home. I have no problem with chicks who are tall requesting dudes with height, it makes sense. But short women though? Ninja please go somewhere with that ish!”

      coldsweat3 you are a ok in my book… i have no idea why a vertically challenged woman has a 5+ inch taller than her height requirement and NOTHING they say can make me see any sense in it at all…

      Reply ↓

    • Coldsweat, you seem annoyed at short women preferring taller guys? Sorry but it’s something that can’t be helped. I’m a 5’2 girl, and prefer tall guys. My boyfriend is 6’1. I have had some really nice male friends who are my height or 5’3, 5’4 make a move on me and while I adored their personality, there was no attraction there for which I can’t explain.

      It’s not that I think, sorry 5’7 or bellow guy, you’re too short for me step aside… It’s just that when a tall guy walks into the room (if he has a nice face) I am just really attracted. And truth be told, I’m attractive enough that I don’t have to settle for anything and can choose a guy I want. Life is too short not to.

      I do feel sorry for short guys. People are pretty weird about height for girls too sometimes, liking to point out how tiny I am. Often it’s tall not as pretty girls who like to act like height is really important because that way they feel like they have something. Anyway height prejudice sucks, more so for guys, but you can’t choose who you’re attracted to and that’s the bottom line. As long as you aren’t rude or cruel about short guys, what else is there to do.

      Reply ↓

  30. As usual I enjoy your daily post….It personally doesn’t matter to me sure I don’t want a midget man but being 5ft 10inches and having a love for at least 4 inch heels it is highly likely that I will be taller than him or at least eye-to-eye…..and since I’m not willing to give up my “mean” shoe collection I just ask that he has the confidence to be with me and my skyscraper shoes..hahaha

    Reply ↓

  31. “there’s a better chance of seeing Muammar Gaddafi on Dancing With The Stars than finding her a match.” ***dead***

    “Sometimes they’ll even try spit some evolutionary gobbledygook about “feeling safer” with a taller man”

    Let me say this, I’m 5’4 and 3/4 an inch (I’ve haven’t grown since I was 12, I am bitter about this) and for the majority of my dating life when describing my ideal height I have stood on my tippy-toes and stretched my right arm as high as I could and said “You must be this tall to ride this ride.” However, there was a short (no pun intended) period of time where I decided at my 5’4 and 3/4 an inch I shouldn’t hate on dudes close to my height. So I dated a guy who was two inches shorter than me and another guy who was exactly my height and another who was an inch or two taller than me. And then I stopped for two reasons:
    1.) I looked like their mother or babysitter. Each of these dudes and I were the same age at the time we dated. And in my entire life I’ve never been accused of looking my age or older. I’m 26 and routinely get mistaken for 19 or 20, I get ID’d EVERYWHERE, especially when I’m out of state. So when I saw pics of us it looked like I’d pulled a Robert Kelly…..I couldn’t take it and also….
    2.) Men my size make me feel less feminine. I can’t explain it but if we are the same size it makes me feel like I’m masculine, not that he’s feminine. I’m a girl, I want to feel like a girl and if we’re the same height or body size or weight – whatever, that makes me feel like I could pass for a man. I feel better, more feminine, with a dude 5’11 and skinny than 5’6 and built.That might be nuts, but it’s how I feel.

    So those two reasons (whether they’re superficial or not) are why i went back to only dating guys 5’10 or over. I think that should be the rule for women 5’0 to 5’8, it’s OK to want a guy at least 4-5 inches taller than you. But a 5’0 woman who wants a dude a solid foot taller? Kick rocks, chick – that’s ridiculous.

    Reply ↓

    • 2.) Men my size make me feel less feminine. I can’t explain it but if we are the same size it makes me feel like I’m masculine, not that he’s feminine. I’m a girl, I want to feel like a girl and if we’re the same height or body size or weight – whatever, that makes me feel like I could pass for a man. I feel better, more feminine, with a dude 5’11 and skinny than 5’6 and built.That might be nuts, but it’s how I feel.

      pow. thank you. and this is (pretty much) every woman’s reason riiiight here. i said it in a much more spastic way in my comment below. lol.

      Reply ↓

      • @Muze @Madame Zenobia

        I honestly wonder how dating in the 70′s were when both parties wore platform shoes? Im not trying to be completely funny but the heels thing….kinda crazy.

        If it became fashionable again for men to also deceive on height, would a brotha have to have the BADDEST pair of platforms or would the height bar just continue to be raised?

        Reply ↓

    • I agree that if you’re 5’4, dating a dude your height might not make you feel as feminine as you want . Same for a tall woman, like 5’10+. I don’t think that’s the issue though.

      If you’re a woman who’s 5’2 and won’t date a guy under 6′ that’s like being a fat dude who only dates girls who wear a size 2 and below though! I’d tell the fat guy he needs to re-evaluate his priorities just like I’d tell the woman of slightly below average height.

      Reply ↓

    • “I’m a girl, I want to feel like a girl and if we’re the same height or body size or weight – whatever, that makes me feel like I could pass for a man.”

      Sweetheart, you don’t need a tall man, you need a doctor.

      Reply ↓

      • i didn’t see the “pass for a man” part. that’s extreme. but i do know what she means about not wanting to feel more brolic than your man. lol

        Reply ↓

      • Lol… I kept hearing that in when reading the post.

        How does one feel “less” than a woman? I mean my dating history was littered with dudes on the slim side of things (think bikers/runners type build rather than football build) -not that it was a preference it just happened that way- but I have never ever felt less feminine… And 2 of those dudes were actually 5’5 (I’m 5’4 and 3/4)… Lol. Bottom line is you will feel the way you feel when you are alone. Nobody else can make you feel less or more than anything. Lol.

        Reply ↓

        • Right. If you feel sexy and feminine, you should take that feeling with whoever you date. I date super slim guys always. Dunno why I’m attracted to that only, somethings going on psychologically… But I am average weight and curvy. My boyfriends are always waay skinnier than me. I dont care. They like my body, I like theirs. It’s all good

          Reply ↓

  33. This state of mind also affects how we categorize behavior. An asshole who happens to be 6’3”? Just an asshole. A 5’3” asshole? An example of Napoleon syndrome. An 6’1” man whipping a F-150? Cool. A 5’5” man whipping a F-150? Overcompensating.

    I went to college with a guy who was like 4’9″ – He was proportional and whatnot so he wasn’t a dwarf, just really short. He drove a Suburban with pedal extensions and a booster seat.

    Reply ↓

    • He drove a Suburban with pedal extensions and a booster seat.

      Is it bad im laughing at this visual? yes? ok.
      #Peopleplaytoomuch

      Reply ↓

    • Yall sleepin’ on those pedal extensions! I drove a Tahoe once with those and I was in HEAVEN. I mean, I’m short and all but it was great! Now the booster seat? Dead

      Reply ↓

  34. I swear. If black women would just date who they liked instead of the guy most likely to make her friends jealous/ envious, we could really fight crime.

    Reply ↓

    • um, maybe we like tall men.

      and tall is completely subjective depending on the woman’s height. heels are a part of a woman’s life. we have to factor these things in. i think if all the shorter women date the shorter men, that will be fighting crime. lol

      Reply ↓

      • It’s just funny to me and men I know that women requirements are long until they get about 30 y/o then the list gets shorter. Somewhere along the way, the single, lonely woman scratches the height requirement off of the list only to find out that even short men are taken. Then BW’s will have the nerve to talk about their lack of prospects. Like, chick, you bs’d men for 13 dating years now you want to gripe?

        Reply ↓

          • I don’t hate BW’s but hearing you all complain about being single when all you do is turn down guys all year is a little(very) annoying.

            Reply ↓

        • have you dated every good woman that was interested in you, or did you sometimes choose the one you preferred over one that would be otherwise just as good?

          God bless you if so. but um, this needs more people.

          Reply ↓

          • As the topic states- BM’s are often called shallow for not wanting fatties but you all feel you should get a pass on height. ????????

            Reply ↓

            • @bhillboy37

              nope i take the L on men saying they don’t want fatties and i have NEVER met a plus sized princess that argued with men that they have to like us…

              Reply ↓

              • You ain’t never heard a woman say “Y’all don’t got love for the big girls?”
                I’ve heard it far too many times.

                Reply ↓

                • bhillboy37

                  i’ve heard that on tv, on comedy shows, rap songs and the such but again i’ve never been around a big girl that responded that to men that say they aren’t feeling them…

                  Reply ↓

                    • not out of a big girls mouth directly to a man that wasn’t feeling her.. no

                      but i do see what you are saying… i’m just not the big girl that is asking dudes to give me a chance..

                      i’m sorry that happened to you but hell i got my own problems… homeless men try to talk to me, dirty men, men w/o teeth, men that are with their girl @ the time give me the sneaking look and mouth their numbers… and they all say some variation of why aren’t you giving me play… just think of it as a way to understand the plight of women or something like that…

                      at the next big girl meeting i’ll bring it up and see if we can put an end to that for ya ?

                  • Agreed. I’m not telling any dude he MUST like a big women. I’m realistic enough to know that for most men it’s not the ideal. I also know that many men have been perfectly fine with my shape, so I don’t have to beg those that aren’t.

                    Reply ↓

      • YES!!! shorter men dating shorter women = fighting crime! How can we get this bill turned into law? Hand me the pen, I’ll sign!!!

        Reply ↓

        • Cosign. John Hancock style

          This is how crime gets driven out of the streets, wars are solved, and all is made right with the world.

          Reply ↓

          • “This is how crime gets driven out of the streets, wars are solved, and all is made right with the world.”

            I couldn’t have said it better myself *high five*

            Reply ↓

        • Nah, short women shouldn’t get with short guys to fight crime. No one should get with someone they’re not attracted to. Not a happy situation for anyone

          Reply ↓

    • @bhillboy37. Um, I kinda feel where u r coming from with this one. I just met a guy who has put me on Queen status with the way that he treats me. Good dude, very polite gentleman, we have everything in common, he’s looking to settle down, but I’ve yet to bring him around my friends cause he’s um…let’s say “facially challenged”. I feel so shallow over it, but I guess we won’t get to fighting crime if I keep being worried about what my friends say.

      Reply ↓

      • Womp Womp on “facially challenged”. At a party a chick was talking about how there weren’t any eligibles in her city of 2.2 million. I asked would she have dated the host of the party back before he married his current wife and she was like “Heeeeeeeeelllll Noooooo, he is corny” but dude was the CEO of a major hospital, well educated thoughtful, athletic, yada yada and facially challenged. But his wife, who is gorgeous, saw something in him early and wrapped him up. Now they got CEO and MD money and a beautiful marriage, house, and family. This chick is lonely to the “N”th degree. Not saying she should date outside of her comfort zone but her comfort zone is mighty narrow.

        Reply ↓

        • Physical attraction is a valid qualifier IMO. But I say, if there’s even a piece of “maybe” in it, give dude a chance. The wife probably said ‘well he aint cute but I’m gonna see what he’s talking about’ and she got a prize. I believe there is a biological response that needs to happen, but beyond that, focusing on stuff that doesn’t affect the quality of your relationship is a waste of time for those seeking a relationship.

          Reply ↓

  35. Sometimes they’ll even try spit some evolutionary gobbledygook about “feeling safer” with a taller man, like you need that extra two inches to help fend off the woolly mammoths and foaming crackheads of the Saks Fifth Serengeti. F*ckers.

    i can not but i will try.

    first, are you really qualified to call us effers? being all kinds of tall and basketbally and stuff?

    second, since everyone is gonna be checking their height as a preface to their comment, i am 5’6″ most of the time (i.e. in meetings, on the treadmill, shuffling through self-check) but depending on the weather and occasion i can rise to 5’11″. now while a height differential has NEVER actually stopped me from engaging a dude who stepped to me, what is wrong with generally thinking “you must be this tall to ride this ride?” if you are coming cute and correct, i am ultimately going to be concerned with a different sort of height that has no relevance to my shoe game. is it not your jerb to convince me that you are worthy of a second round interview?

    Reply ↓

    • oh, lord. my tags didn’t close correctly. i hope y’all will put the right emphasis on the right syllables.

      might be time to key up some editing privileges for verified commenters and ish.

      Reply ↓

          • LOL it’s fine. We used to have editing on here but sumn happened to it. I’ll see if I can put it back for ya’ll.

            I don’t mind the messups but I heard Champ’s been sending folks cease and desists behind it LOL. (prolly cuz it takes him too much effort to fix it on his own)

            Reply ↓

            • thanks for fixing this, liz. champ hasn’t come at me yet but i would appreciate an edit button moving forward because if he gets to edit then so should i! :)

              Reply ↓

    • being all kinds of tall and basketbally and stuff?

      Champers may be basketbally, but “all kinds of tall” he is not. unless you are damn near a midget like MsEsquire77, then i guess he would be tall comparatively speaking. i really dont know since i didnt meet you at #ThreeDeez.

      Reply ↓

  36. I never really thought about it until reading the comments yeasterday. I’m 5’8 and prefer a guy 5’11-6’3 but I’m not against guys that or my height to 1 or 2 inches taller. I’ve given guys I’ve consider short a chance. I’m not that bad about height. Know what I like but never knockin other opportunities. ;)

    Reply ↓

    • HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA! I typed ‘yeasterday’ instead of yesterday.
      If you say it out loud, it sounds so funny! I’m over here just a cackiling :D

      Also, not *or my height but ARE (arrgghh!), me bad.

      Reply ↓

  37. while you make valid points, i’m 5’7 and 3/4 and i just can’t date a man shorter than me. i don’t care how shallow that makes me seem, i don’t think it’s asking for a unicorn. pretty much every guy i’ve ever dated seriously or even been on a date with has been at least 5’10″, except for 2 and they were both very very overcompensating.

    luckily, my preference has never been a problem. i usually only get approached by men taller than me anyhow. for me, it’s the feeling of manliness that a man gives when you have to look up. and there’s nothing quite like being engulfed in a manhug when your face only reaches his shoulder. although i will say, if you are 6’2″ 170… i need you to eat something. lol. i like when men are big. can’t help it. i like for our arms and shoulder width to not be the same. lol. and i have a very athletic build, which means muscle, so i just don’t want to feel like the he-man in the relationship. *most* men who are shorter are also slight, and even though i’m slim, it just … doesn’t work.

    i’ve had men like me for completely superficial reasons (hair, skintone, height, size) and tell me, so… in the grand scheme of things… i think women are much more compromising. i was telling a friend about one of our friend’s man cheating and how he was such a dog… her only response was like “wait, isn’t he like 5’4″?? she let a 5’4″ man cheat on her?!

    it’s mean but it’s funny. lol

    Reply ↓

    • you killed me with 5’7 and 3/4 foreal, okay. lol, thats like someone saying they’re 29 and 1/2 years old. hilarious

      Reply ↓

      • LOL i usually say 5’8 but there is someone who always tells me i’m lying when i say that. lol.

        ion need ninjas calling me out.

        Reply ↓

        • I’m actually your exact height, 5’7 3/4. And I know what you mean about people not wanting to let you get away with saying you’re 5’8. I don’t know what that’s about, I guess there’s a very obvious difference between someone who’s really 5’8 and someone who’s not? Or maybe they’re just hating.

          Reply ↓

    • if you are 6’2? 170… i need you to eat something. lol. i like when men are big. can’t help it. i like for our arms and shoulder width to not be the same. lol.

      Yes ma’am! When I’m checking out men’s arms & legs, I’m checking to see that I’m not going to look the way I look next to my 15 yr old nephew next to them *shrug*.

      i was telling a friend about one of our friend’s man cheating and how he was such a dog… her only response was like “wait, isn’t he like 5’4??? she let a 5’4? man cheat on her?!

      And I would’ve answered her back, “I know, right?!”
      Okay…. maybe I am tad bit discriminating.

      Reply ↓

    • muze

      you tell ‘em… men have liked or disliked me for so many superficial reasons… and i just want someone Taller than me and i am shallow?!?!?! no suh…

      Reply ↓

      • I mean kind of. But so are they, so are we, what does it matter? Isn’t the point of this to realize we are all a bit shallow at times? I think we’d all be happier if we just stop frontin’

        Reply ↓

    • I might be alone on this one, but I prefer a slimmer man to a thicker one. Muscle bound dudes are more likely to get fat. I’ll gladly have scrawny today to avoid moobs in the future.

      And yes, I’m checking out how the men in your family are built. If they all look like who did and what for, but you’re mr. muscle buff, you still get put on the list for dudes with fat-boy tendencies.

      Reply ↓

      • LOL men look at the women in our families to determine how we will look in x amt of years, so it’s only fair. i don’t necessarily like bulky men. just men whose ribcage i can’t see and whom don’t have the same waist size as me. lol. it’s disturbing.

        Reply ↓

      • I might be alone on this one, but I prefer a slimmer man to a thicker one.

        Nope, not alone… I actually didn’t know it was a preference of mine until well I looked at my dating history and realized I had only dated skinny guys… Does that say anything about us? :)

        Reply ↓

    • Muze, I think most people and most commenters have no problem with your point: a girl dating someone a few inches taller than them. That’s within reason and few will think you’re shallow for it.

      I think the post was less about having women date men who are shorter than them and more about the 5’0″s -5’4″s demanding a 6′ dude. Cuz on some real, that’s beyond shallow and that just don’t make any sense. If the ninja near 10 inches taller than you, watchu doin’ checking only for people his height?

      Reply ↓

      • you know, that’s true. i had a debate with this 5’1″ girl who only dates 6′ men. i think it’s only fair that they leave the taller men to the taller women. lol. all women should get to experience the “look up lovingly into his eyes” feeling. lol

        Reply ↓

    • “her only response was like “wait, isn’t he like 5’4??? she let a 5’4? man cheat on her?” #cardiacarrest This is absolutely hilarious because I can see one of my friends saying something like this – like it matters at ALL

      Reply ↓

    • “her only response was like “wait, isn’t he like 5’4??? she let a 5’4? man cheat on her?! ”

      I know for sure I would say something similar. :)

      Reply ↓

    • if you are 6’2? 170…

      Skinny men have stamina… that’s all I’m going to say about that. :)

      I think it all boils down to priorities though. I could care less how we “look” on the outside, if my personal needs are NOT met… And the height requirement does not really do anything for me personally… except maybe get stuff off of tall cupboards, but there is an app for that… So yeah, unless a certain attribute has a direct impact on my well-being, I don’t care too much about it… I am that selfish. Lol.

      Reply ↓

  38. My only prerequisite (as a 6ft Woman) is that he not be able to hide under the shelf that is my chesticularness NOR place his nose firmly between the “grand tetons” in public (or at the family reunion)…
    Thats just embarrassing!

    Reply ↓

  39. I’m 5’10. Some people think I’m taller. Liz covered a lot of what I was going to say above. I just wanted to add that as I was reading this I wanted to slap the isht out of the complaining chick with a sock full of batteries with all my Amazon strength, but you went HAM and had her murked! Well, that’s the game. *shrug* Two tears in a bucket….

    I kid, I kid! :D …dang, real ninjas, huh?

    Reply ↓

  40. When I was 12 I fell in love Chris Webber and made a school girls promise that any man I met needed to be almost as tall and Dark as he. For years I purposely used my height requirement as a way of not dating. I think that some people front like they cannot find someone to meet their specific needs, when it’s really their own inadequacies that they’re trying to hide behind.

    Once I decided to be an “active” dater I totally let go of my obnoxious height requirement (6’2+). At 5’6 I really am looking for 5’10, but will date anyone I vibe with. Let’s be clear in the mammalian kingdom the male is usually larger by at least 3-4″ at the shoulder. Part of wanting to date a male a bit, and I mean a bit taller, is totally programmed…..(that’s my story and I’m sticking to it.)

    Reply ↓

    • I think that some people front like they cannot find someone to meet their specific needs, when it’s really their own inadequacies that they’re trying to hide behind.

      #Church.gov!

      Real talk, women are rarely allowed to stay “I don’t wanna date anyone right now,” no matter how valid or invalid the reason is. Instead, they’ll come up with some ridiculous standard that they know good and hell well isn’t going to be met, just so they don’t have to answer a bunch of uncomfortable questions and deal with crap like their Aunt/Mom/Girlfriend/RandomChickOnTheJob trying to fix them up with someone.

      Reply ↓

  41. I think what gets me about this whole height requirement, regardless of what that height requirement is, is when women are looking for someone. Or rather, when they have a want for a man.

    What I mean is, I’m allowed to be shallow if I so choose. Reason being is because I honestly don’t care. I’m good with being single now until whenever. In essence, I ain pressed. But what gets me about some women (and I guess men, too) is that they can be so adamant about finding someone, yet at the same time so adamant about scratching perfectly good candidates with perfectly good character off the list because he’s lacking in height.

    Sometimes I hear a lot of complaining from women about the lack of good men out there. But when they continue to find reasons to categorize good men as unviable for whatever silly reason, it seems as tho women have nothing to complain about but themselves. But why complain about yourself?

    Reply ↓

  42. FAM!

    I’m 5’9(.5 please don’t forget the .5) and I get called short by chicks regularly.

    I have to say, tall guys (6’2 and more) have it easy when it comes to chicks. They can be ugly as hell but still pull broads with ease. Let the ninja be light skinned or Mandingo dark and he’s gunna be killing them. Most likely, he’ll be catching them as they throw themselves at him.

    I’d like to be 5 inches taller for one day and measure how the opposite sex react to me.

    Reply ↓

      • Tezzybaby

        i’m mad at that booty pop commercial… but i think your assessment of what his situation would be in his 5 inch taller alternate universe is totally correct

        Reply ↓

    • I’m not ugly, broke, or dumb and I haven’t had a woman ever throw themselves at me. Some gave me good conversation but that “TV sitcom throwing themselves at a man: type of $h!t never happened. We work hard for ours too, bruh.

      Reply ↓

      • oh, so not only are you tall, but attractive, paid and smart?! well, my name is lina, i’m a virgo, and i like long walks on the beach

        Reply ↓

        • Hey Lina,
          I am the ranter, bhillboy37. I work in the financial industry and have a BBA from a midsize public school in the midwest and I’m astrologically fond of Virgos… but I chipped my right front tooth a couple of weeks ago.

          Reply ↓

  43. …and on top of that just because you are 6’3+ does not mean that you will get a ton of play from the ladies. The height thing is just one of 2 dozen “must have” characteristics BM’s need to catch the interest of the very average BW.

    Reply ↓

    • Hmm I dunno. I was checkin a dude out the other day, like “damn he fine,” but when I really thought about it, he wasn’t actually that fine in the face. But his tallness made him fine. So, I think much like light skinned points, men get tallness points….and prolly do get more play from the ladies on some level, because of it.

      Reply ↓

      • Co-sign Liz, being tall is all you need.

        It’s like being rich or charming. That alone will grab you a lot of women. And better than being rich or charming, you don’t have to say anything for the benefit.

        Reply ↓

        • LOLL. Awww don’t make fun of them!

          To be clear, I may call a man who is 5’9″ short, but what I really mean is he’s “short, for a man.” 5’8″ or 5’9″ for me is still plausible. 5’7″ is shaky territory though. I don’t think I’ve ever met a manw ho was 5’7″ tho, cuz they all lying and claiming 5’9″

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          • I’m not making fun, the song is silly granted, but I LOVE ALL men, ok well most men. 4’4-quadriplegic-strabismus having whatever. Let’s get it metaphorically poppin’.

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    • Not every BW has a list of two dozen “must have” characteristics. Personally, I found that my very short list of non-negotiables [no children, >= BA/BS, gainfully employed, no felonies (or violent/drug related misdemeanors. You get a pass for traffic tickets lol), never married, kind, funny] knock out most single black men I run into. And then, once you meet one who passes those, colorstruck-ness* or bitterman syndrome usually knock out the rest. No country for bitter/angry dudes.

      * yes, it may seem like I shouldn’t care about a dude being colorstruck, being that I have been accused of passing the paper bag test (I say accused, because I refute those allegations). But nothing makes a BM as unsexy as him spouting a bunch of euro beauty standard BS with nary a trace of awareness that he’s downing the very traits he possesses.

      Reply ↓

      • But nothing makes a BM as unsexy as him spouting a bunch of euro beauty standard BS with nary a trace of awareness that he’s downing the very traits he possesses.

        Now you making the assumption that every man who has a preference for lighter skin has subscribed to euro-beauty standards….

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      • knock out most single black men I run into

        You need to run in a different neighborhood for serious… Lol.

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  44. As a preface, I am approaching 5’2

    Firstly, Taye Diggs is plenty short, and I wouldn’t kick him out of the hammock…especially during the Stella/Kevin Hill era. In a similar fashion, most of my major unrequited crushes from elementary through college were with boys who got the short end of the height stick.

    Second, my family is full of short men, on both sides. I have no problem continuing on in this biological tradition if “destiny” sees fit…as long as, like the men in my family, he has enough charisma, charm, attractiveness, physical presence whatever etc to own a room when he walks into it. That’s why women like tall men, I think…not because of the tangible physical space they take up: that is merely shorthand. They want a man who is revered/respected by other men. And men tend to yield to men who are bigger. However, this is not always the case. In my experience, non-American men don’t seem to have these same hang-ups and, thus, tend to exude the same confidence as their taller counterparts.

    Third, and I know this was mentioned in yesterday’s post: I don’t really get approached by shorter guys. 5’9-5’10 seems to be my wheelhouse, my median. Don’t get me wrong, I’m not complaining…there’s something about having to stand on your toes to kiss a guy that makes it kinda hot but…honestly, it wouldn’t rock the core of my universe if he were 5’6, 5’7, etc. Plus, I’ve dated a guy who was 6’3 and a) I thought we looked a bit ridiculous together (like an 8 and a 1) and b) I don’t like the skinny, lanky body type in general. Not my thing.

    Reply ↓

    • My 5’8″ self never has stood on tip toes to kiss a guy. Ever. The one guy that was tall enough for me to do that (6’6″) got drop kicked after showing up at 11pm at my house waaaaaayyy out in the cut shortly after our second date. No, I hadn’t invited him over or told him where I lived.

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      • It makes for an interesting dynamic, as far as angles go. Plus…there’s always the underlying possibility that he may attempt to lift you up…also kinda hot.

        Reply ↓

    • “Taye Diggs is plenty short, and I wouldn’t kick him out of the hammock…especially during the Stella/Kevin Hill era.” Yeah I understand what you’re saying but when I saw him in person i was like DAMN! Really???

      Reply ↓

  45. i’m not really particular about height as long as he is not very very short. I’m seriously allergic to very very short men… and old men. i get really uncomfortable when i’m in the presence of very very short men and old men.

    btw, to me a very very short man would be any man 5’4 and under lol

    my father falls into that category but he’s my daddy and my mother is smaller than him so they kind of did what everyone suggested short people do, get together and create smedium babies and there goes world peace

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  46. I wish a ninja would….I’m only 5’4…if a dude is shorter than me, he has a true problem and napolean aint one of them. I even have a complex of a short woman where I always where heels. If a man is taller than me with my heels on (makes me about a good 5’8), then I’m trying to climb that tall tree he has my attention.

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  47. I’m 5’9″ and I like a guy about 6′ or so, since I wear heels (but usually not stilettos), but I’m not trying to date a tree either. This right here is just…. http://dlisted.com/node/41563

    Another random side note: Did anyone see that episode of Dr. Phil (don’t judge me – it was on in the salon) where a sista was giving her man requirements to Dr. Phil. Among them 6’8″ or taller 0_________O I remember her because she was doing the absolute most: she also dated guys two states away, and insisted the show give some kind of ottoman for her foot since it was in a cast after bunion surgery. Dr. Phil was like “girl, bye” (paraphrasing)

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  48. I’m 5’3″. I dated a guy who was 5’4″. I’ve also dated a guy who was 6’3″. My first boyfriend was 5’6″ and we could kiss for hours at Point Park without me breaking my neck. Tall guys are cool too, but I didn’t like when my ex used me as a leaning post. And if you’ve seen me in heels well…I’m clumsy. I do like when tall guys pick me up and…
    What I’m saying is, I don’t have a preference for height, but width on the other hand…
    ennnnnd scene.

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  49. I’m 5’10 and at one point I even gave up heels just so that I could try to talk to guys who were 5’10. I’ll admit that I did find it a bit uncomfortable to be a few inches taller than the guy I was walking around with (when I was wearing heels). But it did help that they didn’t seem to mind, so I grew not to care. That being said, I do have to say that I just can’t stand it when a guy (and i’ve had many men tell me this) says that women should always wear heels, but won’t date a tall sister cause she’s too tall for them.

    I have a tall preference because I am tall. I admit that I give short dudes (5’9 and under) who try to holla the side eye. It is what it is. But I have over 20 pairs of heels and I intend to wear them and not have my man’s eyes be level with chest.

    Reply ↓

    • That being said, I do have to say that I just can’t stand it when a guy (and i’ve had many men tell me this) says that women should always wear heels, but won’t date a tall sister cause she’s too tall for them.

      THIS! I cannot tell you how many men have come up to me, made some ridiculous comment about my height that put their insecurities, and then expected me to get with them anyway. Boy bye! No country for insecure dudes.

      Now, the one guy I dated who was shorter than me never seemed to mind my height, so I didn’t mind it either.

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  50. At 5’1 (barely), 5’3 with my adequately sized fro, and possibly 5’6 in heels (which I don’t for real wear), I can say that height doesn’t really matter. I won’t turn down a man who isn’t over 6′. That’s ridiculous. HOWEVER, I feel some kinda way dating a man 5’5 and under. And I damn sure can’t date a man my height or shorter. I rather not look like I just stepped off the Wizard of Oz set. I also, like many short women, want to give a fighting chance to my future offspring. My parents, both 5’5, played me. I’m still bitter about that. Two more inches and my pants wouldn’t be so damn long. *sigh* A girl can dream….

    Reply ↓

      • Not tall, but taller. I’m not average height. I want, at least, that for my future offspring. Or at least close enough. Many people won’t take a many barely standing 5’4 seriously.

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        • In your opinion, has not being taller made a (negative) difference in your life? I am really curious about this… because as a short-er woman, I have never felt any problem/problems with my height whatsoever… So I am curious to know if there are genuine impediments to being shorter.

          Reply ↓

          • Well, I have to combat not being taken seriously…a lot. The inconvenience of clothes not fitting, not reaching things without my handy-dandy step-stool, not being able to see at a concert without standing on my chair, my feet dangling when I sit in chairs….all minuscule compared to not being taken seriously and the invasion of space. I’ve been physically moved out of the way by people. My space is encroached on by so many people on a daily basis. My opinion is not respected all the time. It really doesn’t help that I live in New York. lol I thank god that my voice has some depth to it cuz if I sounded like I just swallowed helium, chile……

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  51. I’m 5’8″, 150 lbs, and I’m a nurse, who also teaches dance on the side from time to time.

    Nothing really on the surface about me says manly.

    At least until you see my purple hearts from Iraq and my Marine Corps uniform and medals for marskmanship with a variety of weapons in competitions.

    Or until you see my 401k and my savings account and that I’m one of the few people not looking forward to tax season because I actually pay taxes and not get refunds.

    But hey, keep writing me off. I will see you in 20 years trying to slide me your number while I’m out shopping for my family, and I not so subtly give you the O_o and go on about my day.

    Reply ↓

    • See…alla what you just said? Mmhm…um…I’m not sure if you’ve noticed or anything like that but I have a thing for manly arse men…who take care of people…and take care of business. So yeah…carry on ;)

      Reply ↓

      • LOL I’m not “manly” at all. I’m a goofball and a jackass usually. I’m not out here trying to fight everyone, I did that already, and it is exhausting…lol

        I’m a man, but “manly” isn’t something I want to be. Walking around with your chest puffed all out seems like a quick way to have people trying to cave that ish in lol.

        Reply ↓

        • “Walking around with your chest puffed all out seems like a quick way to have people trying to cave that ish in”

          I actually saw something like that the other day. Laughed my @ss off. Your point is made lmao.

          As for the “manly”…I suppose it’s all relative. Your idea and my idea might be totally different…but for the record mines is probably more interesting. :)

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    • I was confused for second when you said ‘uniforms’, I forgot you guys wear the service uniform, in addition the dress blues. Unless you took your fatigues too.

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    • hehehe, nothing about your self description made me give you the side eye except for former military service. I appreciate the sacrifice, but some of your brethren have made me wary to the point of being unwililng to date someone in the armed forces (or retired from it.). Just seems to breed the crazy.

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    • Hmmm…. Sounds good to me! To me your being a nurse means you may know some things about the human body. :-) Teaching dance? Well isnt it if you can dance you can…

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  52. Well… I’m 5’1 and I never thought that I was asking for much to have a guy whose taller than me… that is until I went to a town in Spain and found out that half them chicos were rocking the 4’7-5’0.

    It made me assess my priorities n sh*t. Until one night, I was meeting my lil man’s friends and he didn’t want me to stand up to meet them… I guess height embarrassment is multicultural. Anyways, after that I was and am more than HAPPY to be a hypocrite. All I want is a 5’2 man, for lord’s sake!!!!

    Additionally, just got paid, and ordered the my VSB book today from Amazon! So excited! Finally!! I know I know, pero a girls got to pay rent and food y’know. Anyways, such a good day!

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  53. You ever notice that a short guy always has a tall wingman, and tall guy always has a short wingman? I started noticing that out at the bar/club/lounge more and more. It’s like some subliminal ‘Of Mice and Men’ ish.

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  54. As a VS Five Footer, I have to say…as long as dude is okay in every other aspect, it won’t matter to me. Admittedly I have a height preference, but five three isn’t that hard to reach is it? If dude is at least five three (and reaches all the Champ’s credentials) so what? That means less back strain for him to have to lean down and kiss me, less embarrassment for me to have to stand on his multitude of short-@ss exes a step-stool in all our pictures, and less time rolling my eyes at his friends for insinuating I get slapped in the face with the D on the regular (oh yes, men do talk that sh*t). Because of my height, I’m usually not looking for the extremely tall men.*

    *The fact that the shorter men assume I am though may make them work a little harder than said 6’11 dude getting eye-f*cked at the bar. Advantage: Me.

    Reply ↓

      • Very true, but as I often say, anything worth having is worth working for, and if he can’t put in any effort then I can’t put in any either, assuming he’s worth any at all seeing how he doesn’t think I’m worth any. ;)

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        • Ah , but you made it sound as if you were the prize and he was the contestant, when numbers show that if he’s on top of his game, its completely the other way around.

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          • I make it sound that way because to me I am worthy to be stepped to proper; I put a lot of work into myself to not be considered a worthy person for a lucky someone and if they treat me that way, then it’s definitely going to be reciprocated. I think that’s a golden rule right? Treat people how you want them to treat you? Boom. Done deal.

            Prize and contestant he says…why I gotta be the object doe? lol

            Reply ↓

            • It’s how a lot of women present themselves, with the whole “I’m a great catch, he should put in work for me,” yet they are still single. If you were that great, you wouldn’t be caught by wack-ass fisherman all the time.

              Professional, educated black men with no kids have their choice of women, not the other way around. It’s time for a lot of women to stop being catfish, evolve some legs, climb their ass up on the shoreline and start talking to some of these professional fishermen before they land their ass a marlin and leave their ass back at the lake.

              Yes I know my analogy is all types of ratchet but work with me here.

              Reply ↓

                    • Okay. I’m not “sweet” but bitter? I only fight crime and most of my actions come from showing the illogical sex that what they (BW’s) are saying does not make empirical sense. Bitter is a feeling and not very logical. I think it’s just very illogical for a vast majority of women to compete for less than 14% of men or like another commenter stated (I forget) .01% of the population after everything else is accounted for. I think it makes me observant.

              • So not only am I an object, I’m now a fish?

                Wack ass men…in my younger days I would say that was redundant, but because I put my feminist flag down a few years ago I’ll just say this: I’m twenty years old with a twenty year-old’s dating range. If I don’t realize that I’m worth something, all the men in said range are going to treat me just like you assumed I should be treated: like a fish, basically a piece of meat to be chosen at a counter.

                I am not a prize. I am not a fish. I am a woman. I have flaws, but I have so many good points to me as well. I mess up and admit my mistakes. I’m old fashioned in the way I see dating, realizing that not every dude is that way: dudes will get my number on Monday, ask me out on Tuesday and want to sleep with me by Thursday. So I should just roll with that? I should just say “You know what? If that’s what it is, I’m down because that’s the only way I’ll get a good guy?” No. Matter of fact, hell no. I’m tired of men assuming I’m the one who should step up to the plate when they’re the ones content to let women do all the wooing, and all the work if a relationship pops off.

                Gentlemen prefer ladies to tramps. It may not be true for everyone, but it’s true for me. And if I come off offended, good, because I am.

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                  • You read my blog? :D Wow…um..okay, I’mma stop being flattered for a minute to say(thanks!) yes, I am one of the younger ones of VSB. In fact, I’m the resident VSB Tenderoni in addition to president of the VSVirgins.

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            • now you saying you want that reciprocity but what happens when you do something that hurts him and he does it back to you?
              You going to call foul then? Because, from personal experience, thats a no go. From my homies experience, they get away with it more than I do, but still end up getting punished for exacting a revenge.

              How does that revenge clause look in YOUR contract?

              Reply ↓

              • If I hurt him, it’ll be unintentional as I don’t go out of my way to hurt people. If he hurts me in return in the same manner, I can’t be upset but I probably will be anyway as mine was accidental and his was purposeful. I suppose if it happens I’ll take it with a grain of sugar and try and work it out. I can’t fathom what I would do to hurt a guy I’m with other than break up with him and tell him he’s a terrible kisser, but at that point it probably wouldn’t matter much that his feelings are hurt.

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  55. As a 5’1” chick, I don’t discriminate against short men at all. My issue is short men who have underdog syndrome. I met this guy in the club and we talked on the phone for a week until our first date:

    Guy: Oh you looking all good and everything…uh…so how high are those heels?
    Me: I don’t know, like three inches or so…these are my “reasonable heels,” not like the hooker heels I was wearing when you met me…*laughter*

    Cool, whatever…but then date #2:

    Guy: Wow you look nice…um, so like…how high are those heels?
    Me: Um, you know, like three inches I guess…
    Guy: I’m saying though, you said you were only 5’1″ *accusatory glare*
    Me: ….yeah… *uncomfortable silence*

    I reluctantly pulled out flats for the third date to give a brotha some peace of mind. Of course he loved it and told me he liked me “down there.” This mess was frustrating. Now I done already decided to date your little short a**–clearly I’m not concerned about your height, so why are you? I understand a little insecurity at first, but when someone is trying to show you it doesn’t matter, don’t mess it up.

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  56. Seems like most women 5’7″ and up are saying the height is an issue. My only question is do you think theirs a possibility that you’ve missed making a generally good connection with a guy cause of his height??

    Reply ↓

      • >short men don’t have any character nor are they interesting.

        Oh, wow! Are you for real? I’m not short but I think, the reverse is true. They try to over-compensate for the shortness in someway so they can stand out from the crowd (see Kevin Hart/funny, Kat Williams/the perm, Jermaine Dupri/music, etc.). Normally by accentuating character (often 1 aspect of) or simply developing other skills that will make the height thing a non-issue (in or outside the bedroom—or both).

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    • That’s a good point. Short chicks saying we don’t really care. It’s the tall girls who are giving these men hell LOL

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  57. Most women are short, that’s why we call you shorties. I am a tall brotha (5′ 19″), Yes I played ball. I have not dated a tall woman before. I would love to but, it seems like they are rare or attached to some short ninja. Sometimes it takes tall people a little while to feel comfortable in thier skin. Sometimes you just wish you were just a regular ninja. I think sometimes we undercompensate (try to make people feel comfortable and less intimidated). I came to the realization that you just gotta stick your chest out anyway and let em deal with they little selves (take it how you want little ninja). When it comes to meeting people you do draw thier attention, but, when you have nothing else in common it fades. People are people, if you like somebody, and put forth effort, things will happen they way they are supposed to. I see tall and short people attached to people who are stunning and smart. I don’t think that anyone has it over anyone else, there is so much variety.

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    • Off topic- I have smaller people run up on me all the time talking about how big and tall I am and how they could probably “kick me arse”. I just be like “Nah. Dude, I would destroy you. Seriously.”

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    • “Sometimes it takes tall people a little while to feel comfortable in thier skin. Sometimes you just wish you were just a regular ninja. I think sometimes we undercompensate (try to make people feel comfortable and less intimidated). I came to the realization that you just gotta stick your chest out anyway and let em deal with they little selves (take it how you want little ninja).”

      cosign on all of this. we’re about the same height. i think i’m going to start calling myself 5’20″. i like the sound of that.

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  58. I can’t wait to read more of this when I wake up later……… I think the resident psychologists and psychiatrists need to make themselves available for some couch time…..
    #shotsfired

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  59. @Champ Let me just say this. First off congrats on The Root mention. I saw that yesterday & I was like wow. I thought maybe it was old & I just discovered it.
    2nd I think this shd’ve been filed under first-date (we need that category, in addition to attraction & hypocrisy)

    I’m 5’8″ & I see a lot of females here making a big deal of height. I dated kicked it with with a tall chick for a little bit & let’s just say I would describe myself as not as Malik “Baby Arm” Shakur but rather Mr. Smoothfingers)….all that height requirements nonsense ends waaay before breakfast! TRUST.

    I my friend was throwing it in her face too. None of that “who’s your daddy? who’s … is it?” More like “You talk a lot sh!t, huh. Oh were you was sayin sumthin ’bout 6ft?! Huh?! You said wha? I can’t hear you?”
    // Not a single sentence was finished! a lotta “I … I …. I meant …. I … I’m soooorry!”

    *wipes hand on cloth*
    and then it was time for heavy equipment.

    // 6ft my foot! Maaan, this whole height convo is just child talk.

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  60. I dated a guy who was about 2 or 3 inches shorter than me. It wasn’t bad until he started acting like he felt awkward when I was in heels. I broke it off for other, non-compatible reasons.

    But yeah. I prefer my height or taller in flats. Prefer.

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  61. Also, for those who do pray at the height preferences alter, explain yourselves! Why exactly are you so hell-bent on being the Nate Robinson to your man’s Yao Ming? What’s wrong with just finding a Rondo?

    As long as it’s not Big Baby because….oh wait, this is about height. I’ll wait for the appropriate post for this

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  62. Jesus, this is really depressing as a ‘short’ (5’9″) young black(/latino) male. Can’t get any love for the abundant beautiful black women based on this sample. Maybe I should just stick to Latinas and branch out to Asian women. Sheesh.

    Reply ↓

    • Nope, I would give you a chance as long as you were

      1. Fugly
      2. Ignorant
      3. Angry/Bitter
      4. Stupid

      I only talk about a dude being short in the negative if he is >4 inches shorter than my 5’8″ or he had one of the above traits and would have been dismissed anyway.

      Reply ↓

        • Not everybody is photogenic. And ugly is subjective – fugly is not. I think my homegirls boothang is ugly, she thinks he’s fine. Whatever floats your boat.

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        • Hey Malik,
          There’s nothing wrong with you, Man. You just need some confidence building is all. That comes from working on yourself, inside and out, learning and applying Game, becoming an interesting person and having fun with it. You’ll do just fine with the ladies.

          As for how to get your pic in that little box in the upper righthand corner: you hit up Gravatar.com, and create an account for yourself. Use the same email address that you use to post comments here. Follow the simple instructions for loading up whatever image(s) you want to be displayed when you post here, and you’re done. Very simple process – which suits the Obsidian just fine. Because I likes to keep things simple.

          Hope that helps, consider what I said in my comment and keep ya head up!

          O.

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  63. On Short Men, Tall Women & “Ataru Game”

    1:01 AM 4/13/2011 Wed,

    “Look at me! Judge me by me size, do you? And well you should not – for the Force is my ally; and a powerful ally it is.”

    - Yoda

    Hi Champ, Everyone,

    Glad to see that you’re rolling over yesterday’s conversation into today’s, especially on a bone of contention that, while a popular one, is really a tempest in a teapot when you really think about it. I say that because it’s only a problem for Men who let it become one – yes, that’s right, those without GAME.

    First, let us consider the Female side of the equation here…

    Those of us who make it the reason why we get up in the morning to dedicate ourselves to the Art of Love and the Science of Seduction know very well that if one is to listen to anything a Woman has to say about these matters at all, it is to be with a very very discerning ear and a very critical side eye. This is because Women often do not know themselves what does and what does not turn them on, and this has been confirmed not too long ago scientifically; the NYT published the findings of rigorous studies along these lines proving that fact.

    More here: What Do Women Want? http://www.nytimes.com/2009/01/25/magazine/25desire-t.html

    To put the above into layman’s terms and bring it all down to earth: fellas, how many times have you heard a Woman say, about a guy she is/was with, “he’s not my type, BUT…”? Ladies reading along, how many times have YOU actually said that?

    See what I’m saying? I rest my case.

    This is because, what drives Men sexually doesn’t drive Women in the same way. For Men, the visual is key, and this is because back in the ancestral environment, that’s all a Man had to go on in order to determine if ole girl had the goods to give him strong babies; youth and beauty are outward proxies for this.

    For Women however, it’s different; they judge a Man NOT on how he looks (sorry ladies, but it’s TRUE), but rather, how he commands the environment around him; or in other words, social dominance. This is why Men who are perceived as leaders of the pack can and often will get more attention from the ladies than guys who are mere followers. And this can be seen in all manner of settings – two right here in this forum will instantly be recognizable to the readers: the Professor’s rostrum, and the Pastor’s pulpit. Both kinds of Men can and will net a bonanza of Poon, due as a direct result of their position, which has absolutely nothing to do with their height.

    Way back in the day, a Man’s height was a very rough proxy as to his S&R value, but as I’ve already noted, it’s very imprecise. We shouldn’t be mad at the ladies on this score though, because sex for them is a huge risk and undertaking, even in our time today when they can take care of themselves and others, and when they have virtually 100% control over reproduction – still, they have concerns that the vast majority of us guys simply do not have to even think about. Having said all that though, height ain’t everything and a shorter Man with Game can overcome it – especially with regard to the ladies who swear up and down that they’d “never” get with a guy who’s under 6′ or 5’10″ or whatever.

    The proof? Do the following names ring a bell:

    Allen Iverson: at barely 6′ in stocking feet, he’s hands down one of the shortest Men in the modern era to step on a b-ball court – and hands down one of the toughest. In fact, he’s second only to Jordan in terms of overall points scored in a career, and is likely to head to the Hall of Fame. Both Jordan AND Shaq Diesel, said of AI that he’s the toughest Man on the court they’ve ever seen; Jordan said of him, that he’s the one Man he CANNOT DEFEND. Jordan’s half a foot (at least) taller than Iverson; Shaq, something like a mile; this is what both Men had to say about him. Ask the ladies who’d they like to hangout with if they could – Shaq, or AI?

    Bruce Lee: it’s been some four decades after his death, and countless names have come and gone in the martial arts film world, including the 6 foot 4 Steven Seagal, and yet Lee – at 5’9″ or so – is STILL the first name in martial arts films. You mean to tell me Women would pass up a chance to kick it with him on a night out on the town? And he’s Asian, to boot! ‘Nuff said.

    Hitler, Stalin AND Chairman Mao, were all around 5’8″ or so, with Hitler making Time magazine’s “Man of the Year” right before WW2 brokeout in Europe. These three Men together changed the course of history. Think about that. Vladimir Putin? About the same height, and he owns Russia, even when he’s not President.

    Current French President Nicholas Sarkozy is about the same height, 5’8″ or so; ever seen his wifey Carla Bruni? She’s actually taller than him, and that’s before the heels go on. See her complaining?

    Tom Cruise is 5’7″, hands down considered one of the sexiest Men ever to grace the silver screen, and the accumulated box office receipts of all the movies of his career bear witness to that fact, including huge blockbuster hits like Top Gun, the Mission:Impossible series of films and more. Quick, name me a Woman who says he’s too short to “get it”? I’ll wait…

    For you comic book geeks out there: who’s the most popular X-Man? That’s right, Wolverine – and if you know your X-Man history, you’ll know that he’s also the shortest, at about 5’5″ or so. Yet he out-AMOG’d Cyclops and took his girl Jean Grey right out from under his nose – she couldn’t resist that Thuggin’ Love.

    What about good ole Webhead – Spider-Man? Comic stats lists him around 5’9″ or so, a far cry from say, Thor (checkout the upcoming film), which the comic stats lists at around 6’5″ at least, or the Hulk, who’s taller than Shaq (and about 1K lbs), or Superman, who’s 6’4″ and 220 lbs. Yet Spidey’s popularity is such that they’re making an entire new round of films chronicling the friendly neighborhood web-slinger – and that’s after the huge success of the first trioka of movies.

    But what do all these Men – real and fictional – have in common? They all oozed CONFIDENCE, which is a proxy for social dominance, and which in turn, is a proxy for psychosexual dominance, which is the basis of GAME – and that, to the vast majority of Women, is the equivalent of Buffy the Body or Maya Dutchy, is to the vast majority of us guys.

    Moreover, they all have “Big Man” personalities, too – they compensated for their lack of height and stature, with over the top personalities and displays of confidence, swag and social dominance, what I refer to as “Ataru Game”:

    “Ataru Game is is a style of seduction which is focused on the body, where often the Man in question uses his body for maximum effect along these lines…Because Ataru Game puts such a focus on the body, it works best when a Man’s body itself is “extreme” in some way – either really tall, or really short. Or if you’re older than might be expected for the venue, or the other way, a lot younger. Or if you’re a guy like The Wire’s Bunk Moreland or The Green Mile’s Michael Clark Duncan, or if you’re more dimunitive, like say, Allen Iverson or Prince or Bruce Lee. Ataru operates on the extremes of the principles of Game, indeed it thrives there, and really makes an impression when you combine that with all the energy and wide, sweeping moves this style is known for, because for Ataru Game to work best, one needs lots of room to roam.”

    You Should Be Dancing: Tony Manero & “Ataru Game”
    http://obsidianraw.bravejournal.com/entry/62661

    Shorter guys who work Ataru Game hard take over a room with their presence, and bowl over people with their personalities; Women – especially those who swear up and down they’d never date such vertically challenged guys – have to secretly admit to themselves that they’re impressed with how these guys operate. In fact, it’s been my personal experience that the best targets to go after if you’re a shorter guy, are the Big Girls – by that I mean, Women 5’10″ and taller. Just like Ataru Game operates on extremes, these guys should gun for Women who are also “extreme”. Not to go too far into the details, but let’s just say that I know of what I speak; roughly a dozen of the Women in my life were at least 5’10″, about half of that number were 6′ or slightly more without the heels. ALL OF THEM told me that I was the first Man in their life that they’d ever dated who was noticeably shorter than themselves. And I’m very happy to report, that I haven’t had any complaints. In fact, the gals who talked the most about what they’d “never do”, was the ones I specifically went after. They’re the best kind, heh heh.

    To the shorter Bruhs reading along: there is no reason why you cannot be successful with the ladies, regardless as to their own height; you fail to win because you fail to understand Women themselves – how they think, what actually turns them on and how to work that in your favor. Any Man who actually listens seriously to what Women say in these areas is a Man doomed to failure, desperation, and eternity working it out with the hand-his. If you’re a shorter Man you need to display the fact that your lack of height does not hinder you from enjoying life, handling your business or taking care of yourself or anyone fortunate enough to be within your cipher. Get some Ataru Game, Brothas – and make those runway model chicks yours.

    And with that, I’m off to bed.

    Good night ladies!

    O.

    Reply ↓

    • One more caveat to add to this, the ideal size of Navy SEALs/British SAS) (you know those guys who are pretty much universally recognized as the greatest modern day warriors) is actually ‘only’ about 5’8″ or 5’9″ and weighing 170-180lbs. That super soldier that’s 6’5″ 250 is almost strictly exclusive to the comic book world, advertising, and Hollywood films.

      Reply ↓

      • Malik,
        Excellent point. I don’t know if you saw the latest installment in the Predator series of films, but when Adrian Brody was announced to star in “Predators” a lot of people get bent outta shape that his selection would be a big step down from Arnold’s starring in the original flick – but you’re right – actual miltary guys are a lot closer to Brody than they are to Arnold.

        Good lookin’ out…

        O.

        Reply ↓

    • one. this comment is longer than the post.

      two. did you really just try to use hitler and stalin in your argument for short guys? lol don’t think that would help you much.

      Reply ↓

      • MadSci,

        1. Of course. I am legion; I contain multitudes.

        2. My point in mentioning Hitler, Stalin and Chairman Mao was to say that their stature didn’t stop them from being major players on the world stage and in world history. Try not to miss the foilage for the pine needles, young one.

        O.

        Reply ↓

    • 1) I missed you Obie! ^_^ It just wasn’t the same without ya for awhile.
      2) I agree with the science you presented and agree that women use an aggreated scale to determine the “best mate.” I can also agree that it’s all in the confidence of said man.

      T

      Reply ↓

      • Hi Tes,
        Thanks – and here’s something else for all those ladies out there (*cough, Yoles, cough*) that swear up and down that they just gotsta have a Man towering over them:

        Did you know that James Bond has gotten SHORTER over the years – and the the current James Bond, Daniel Craig, is the shortest Bond of them all?

        Yup, it’s true. Daniel Craig is only 5’10″. Compare that to Sean Connery, who is about 6’3″ or so, and the tallest Bond ever to appear in the movies, of which there are almost two dozen (filming is supposed to begin soon on the latest Craig-era Bond film later this year). All the other Bonds – including Brosnan and Dalton – were shorter than Connery.

        So, again – fellas, don’t believe the hype. Size matters not.

        O.

        Reply ↓

        • O

          what?!?!?! i didn’t say anything about having a man tower over me… i said i want a man my height or taller… i am NOT checking for a man 5+ inches shorter than me… that pic for the post is no bueno

          5’10″ is cool with me… no complaints… 5’5″ and under nah ima pass…

          like Tes i did miss you round these parts… welcome back!!! i am liking the avi.. you remind me of bilal in your pic

          i completely agree with you in that men with confidence gets the girl… i enjoy the shout outs you give me reading your comments….

          Reply ↓

          • Hi Yoles,
            OK, let me ask for sake of clarification: how tall are you? I ask because the way you made it sound, like you were really tall – more than 5’10″ or something. At any rate, most guys walking around aren’t gonna be 5’5″, LOL. It ain’t that bad.

            You think I favor Bilal, huh? I take it you mean the NeoSoul singer, right? As I recall, he wasn’t exactly a towering figure, either. Hmm! Whew knew? Thanks for the welcome back and the kudos on today’s lecture; I’m trying to bring the Bruhs along for y’all so don’t say I ain’t never gave back to the community or anything like that…

            ;)

            O.

            Reply ↓

            • O
              i am 5’10″ and i’m also a plus sized princess (peep the avi)… so yes 5’5″ is too damn short!!! this post came as a result of an article on essence giving women the heads up on often over looked men and how they should be given a chance and 5’5″ AND UNDER men were mentioned. to that i say NO

              yes bilal the neosoul singer.. there is something about your pic, the style of picture, the style of clothes, the mood the pic emits that reminds me of him… let me find out you can sing!! thanks for helping the community i see you!!

              Reply ↓

              • Hi Yoles,
                OK, let’s get this height business outta the way…

                I did a real quick Google asking it what percentage of the American Male population were 5’5″ or shorter? This is what I got back in response at the top of the search results pile:

                http://investing.calsci.com/statistics.html

                According to this site, only 1/6 of American Males are 5’5″ or shorter; most American Men are going to be between 5’7″ and 6’1″ or so – so you have nothing to worry about, numerically.

                However, in that you have voiced concerns about being inundated with Men who are 5’5″ and all that, you should be aware that Women of your stature do indeed tend to attract them…I take it by now you might have noticed? I certainly have, and they’re not as rare as one might suspect. I don’t have any specific evolutionary theories yet to account for this, but just shooting from the hip I’ll speculate.

                I think the reason why ladies such as yourself tend to find yourself attracting Men of smaller stature is because that’s God’s way of equaling the Human race out; by pairing the smaller stature guys with ladies such as yourself, we wind up with more people, particularly Men arriving at the mean height. Otherwise, if Women such as yourself mated with only similarly statured Men, we’d wind up with nothing but giants and dwarves. :)

                By the way, given that I know you are something of a fan along these lines, I trust you’re aware that the Kama Sutra, without a doubt the oldest sexual/love manual known to Mankind, talks extensively about such things, yes? I’m just sayin’.

                So, give the fellas just a weebit shorter than yourself a chance; you never know what you might be missing.

                O.

                Reply ↓

                • O

                  you hit the nail on the head… i am constantly run down my men that are breast height… and the lines…
                  i just wanna climb you girl
                  i can handle all of that
                  i’ll treat your big azz good girl
                  if i get you down under me, you won’t want to get up
                  and so on and so forth

                  i don’t completely discriminate. i dated 5’8″ before and it was ok but i’m not ashamed to admit that i want and prefer a man my height and taller 5’5″ is a NO GO… i’m NOT gonna be able to do it… face-to-chest isn’t a good way to have a conversation

                  i have heard of the kama sutra but i’ve never read it, so i’m not sure what is said about big women/small men… and to make sure i don’t have any bedroom problems i make sure to stay flexible both physically and mentally… if i can do all the things that the munchkins can do, i’m good

                  Re:Bilal i’m not sure if you read the comments yesterday but so many people thought that i was short based on my avi so i came to the conclusion that the avi doesn’t indicate height, that being said i wasn’t saying you reminded me of him because of your size, its definitely the styling of the picture and the fashion from what little i can see…

                  SNotes: you never answered if you sing… lol
                  let me find out you’re a new yorker!!!
                  i didn’t know you read this late. i read at work if i knew that i definitely would have finished a conversation that was started about the female orgasm!!!

                  Reply ↓

                  • Hi Yoles,
                    Replies below:

                    Y: you hit the nail on the head… i am constantly run down my men that are breast height… and the lines…
                    i just wanna climb you girl
                    i can handle all of that
                    i’ll treat your big azz good girl
                    if i get you down under me, you won’t want to get up
                    and so on and so forth

                    O: LOL. Well, there you go. The problem though, isn’t so much the lack of height here, but the lack of GAME; for your consideration, I present the following excerpt from my analysis of an NBA All-Star Weekend:

                    “Like the scrawny thug who is currently all over Vellesha. It’s a joke among the girls that Vellesha, the big, round bus driver, tends to attract skinny little guys. “Vellesha’s boyfriends always stop at her breasts,” says Danielle. And tonight is no exception. This particular suitor is mesmerized by Vellesha. He wants her, and he wants her bad.

                    “Uhn-uhn,” says Vellesha. She flicks him aside like a cigarette ash. “It looked like he had snot coming down his nose.” *O: Translation – he tipped his hand too soon. Going for the kill too early – even in venues like these – can be a gina-desert for the ladies. Always remember – Alpha Males aren’t needy in the least. Had the youngbuck here maintained his frame, resisted the urge to go in for big gal’s boobies, won over her entire entourage and subtlely negged the bejeezus outta Vellesha, he’d been back at her place wallowing in Big Boob Heaven. See how Solid Game works?*”

                    An NBA All-Star Weekend Field Report
                    http://obsidianraw.bravejournal.com/entry/62516

                    Look, you and just about errbody in NYC’s five boroughs knows what you got and are working with, OK? So when any guy rolls up and the first thing out of his mouth is what he’d like to do to you, is that something you’re really trying to hear? I mean, I don’t know you, but based on my experiences and what I’ve studied, the answer is probably not. Oh, by the way, notice the situation in the excerpt above – sound familiar? ;)

                    Y: i don’t completely discriminate. i dated 5’8? before and it was ok but i’m not ashamed to admit that i want and prefer a man my height and taller 5’5? is a NO GO… i’m NOT gonna be able to do it… face-to-chest isn’t a good way to have a conversation

                    O: Oh peshaw. All it takes for a shorter guy to have ultra-tight Master Jedi Game and that’s all she wrote…

                    Y: i have heard of the kama sutra but i’ve never read it, so i’m not sure what is said about big women/small men… and to make sure i don’t have any bedroom problems i make sure to stay flexible both physically and mentally… if i can do all the things that the munchkins can do, i’m good

                    O: Well, there’s a free version of it online so you can see it for yourself, but rest assured thanks to it – and the KS is at least several thousand years old at this point – all of the logistical matters have been worked out for putative couples such as yourself and Mr. 5’5″. All the parts will fit quite nicely.

                    Y: Re:Bilal i’m not sure if you read the comments yesterday but so many people thought that i was short based on my avi so i came to the conclusion that the avi doesn’t indicate height, that being said i wasn’t saying you reminded me of him because of your size, its definitely the styling of the picture and the fashion from what little i can see…

                    O: No, I’m afraid I missed the earlier comments, I’ll scroll back and catch up. As for the pic, thanks; my lady is a hella photog, and she’s the one that gets all the credit. Took a candid shot of me on the sneak attack one day when we were hanging together downtown earlier this year, then showed it to me later; I liked it, and decided to use it in my avatar thingy.

                    Y: SNotes: you never answered if you sing… lol
                    let me find out you’re a new yorker!!!

                    O: I’m afraid I’m not much of a crooner, though I’ve been known to play a mean kazoo…

                    And as for NYC, I lived in the area for about a year or so. Nice place to visit, you know the rest. The Illadelph is where the Obsidian calls home.

                    Y: i didn’t know you read this late. i read at work if i knew that i definitely would have finished a conversation that was started about the female orgasm!!!

                    O: Yea, i usually turn in round midnight, although I’ve been known to hang a bit later depending. And I’m sorry – what previous conversation about the female orgasm was this?

                    O.

                    Reply ↓

                    • “Had the youngbuck here maintained his frame, resisted the urge to go in for big gal’s boobies, won over her entire entourage and subtlely negged the bejeezus outta Vellesha, he’d been back at her place wallowing in Big Boob Heaven. See how Solid Game works?*” ”

                      Obsidian’s on that PUA tip, huh?

                    • O
                      i know you think this game thing works all the time but i am telling you that 5’5″ man can not make it.. ONLY if he was the last virile man on earth but until then NOPE… he can try to game all he wants, neg, vulnerability control etc… nothing will work… if he is even remotely interesting i will introduce him to one of my vertically challenged friends. like you pointed out… there aren’t that many 5’5″ men anyway so i’m good.. lol

                      as for the orgasm conversation, you stated some facts about 33% of women having orgasms and something about women not being good at sex or sexing men that aren’t good etc.. i don’t remember the convo per se just the gist.. i had one of those days @ work so my brain is fried.

                      nite nite

                      @WUT
                      yea he seems to be into PUA etc…

                    • Hi Yoles,
                      I can’t sleep, so what the heck:

                      Y: O
                      i know you think this game thing works all the time but i am telling you that 5’5? man can not make it.. ONLY if he was the last virile man on earth but until then NOPE… he can try to game all he wants, neg, vulnerability control etc… nothing will work… if he is even remotely interesting i will introduce him to one of my vertically challenged friends. like you pointed out… there aren’t that many 5’5? men anyway so i’m good.. lol

                      O: LOL, don’t worry, I was only ribbing ya. I gotta admit it’s a heck of a image you with Mr. 5’5″. LOL “Vulnerability control”? Not familiar with that one…

                      Y: as for the orgasm conversation, you stated some facts about 33% of women having orgasms and something about women not being good at sex or sexing men that aren’t good etc.. i don’t remember the convo per se just the gist.. i had one of those days @ work so my brain is fried.

                      O: Oh yea, OK. Gotcha. Yea, that’s right – only something like a third of all Women in America regularly achieve orgasms with their partners, according to various studies found online. And generally there’s some truth in the fact that the guys could use an Women’s Anatomy 101 class.

                      nite nite

                      @WUT
                      yea he seems to be into PUA etc…

                      O: LOL. I think a quick bit of clarification is in order here:

                      Game is the mating strategy Men use; a “PUA” is a Man who specializes in picking up Women, usually within the context of nitelife. The two can coincide but do not necessarily mean the same thing. Indeed, one can use Game in a marriage; Google up Athol Kay – he’s a Game blogger that specifically discusses it within the context of marriage, and has recently written a book on the topic. I’m not a PUA, though I have no problem with them in the least.

                      O.

              • …As for Bilal:

                Out of curiousity, I did a quick Google on him to see if I could find out his height; according to this website I think my suspicions about him were correct in this regard; the site lists his height at, I think, 5’6″:

                http://www.dmvallaccess.com/video/the-park-unplugged-bilal

                I had trouble pulling up the site; I don’t know if it’s due to glitches going on in the sky at this time or what; maybe you or someone else reading along will have better results. But from what I saw on the Google page, it seemed to suggest that Bilal was indeed 5’6″ – and only an inch away from that dreaded 5’5″ kind of Brothas who be chasin’ you all over town, heh heh…

                ;)

                O.

                Reply ↓

    • No way Tom Cruise is 5’7″!! Don’t believe the hype!!

      (had to come out of lurkig to post that. . )

      Reply ↓

  65. Moment of honesty: My mom is 5’9. I’m 5’8. I was telling her about this 5’5 chick that said I was too short for her. Why did my mother say, “Well when I was in college a guy your height tried to talk to me but I just couldn’t do it.”?

    Reply ↓

  66. Being 6’3 i had to pass up alot of honeys at the club because i really dont feel like bending my knees past 90 degrees to get danced on. yeah the struggle is real.

    Reply ↓

    • That’s better than having to wear a mouthpiece in the club to keep your grill in tact when she bounces her cheeks into your chin.

      Reply ↓

        • Hey hey hey now. I never said I didn’t enjoy some nice cheekage all up in my facial region. However, before you bounce that thing and stroke my goatee, I just need a little warning so I can brace for impact. I’m already short. I can’t be the little dude with the fcuked up teeth. That’s just a double negative. #Foreverlosing#

          Reply ↓

    • i agree ApolloBlaQ
      having to squat or dip it low to dance with someone isn’t good for my knees or back

      the same can be said for having a dudes member grinding into the back of my thighs

      Reply ↓

      • i agree ApolloBlaQ
        having to squat or dip it low to dance with someone isn’t good for my knees or back

        Oh boo-hoo. That didn’t stop this 6’2″ extra-thick chic from pinning me up against a wall two weeks ago at the club.

        It was horrible……ok-ok I actually enjoyed it!

        Reply ↓

      • hes talking about that bunda bunda stuff where the chick is in push up position with her ankles on his shoulder and her hands supporting her weight on his knees.

        That stuff, I couldn’t understand….no way, a chick smashin my grill into her dookie maker….not the biz. thizz face….uhn

        Reply ↓

      • @Yoles
        Don’t be actin like that girl. You know you like it. I’m turning out the ladies ACL’s from coast to coast!!!

        Reply ↓

    • COSIGN to the max

      This is why I dont much even like going to parties no more. It’s like doing a long squat and you trying figure out just how low you need to bend behind this girl to make this feel comfortable and be worth the effort….smh

      Reply ↓

      • WUT

        “This is why I dont much even like going to parties no more. It’s like doing a long squat and you trying figure out just how low you need to bend behind this girl to make this feel comfortable and be worth the effort….smh”

        and that ?is why you should be dancing with ME

        full. stop.

        Reply ↓

  67. I’m 5’10 so uh yeah i have a height preference and thank you baby jesus boo is 6″1!! #winning …however I went out with a friend who happens to be 5″0 and a Kappa (snicker) we are great friends and it just felt weird!! looking down on him as we waited for our tables i was secretly amused the whole time but when we are on group dates with our other friends it doesnt matter so much *kanyeshrug*

    Reply ↓

  68. damn, i feel all short and what not… *shakes fist at his pops on the low*

    i wish i was like Six Foot 9…

    well, since i’m apparently one of the short brothas (no midget though) i actually have no problem with women wanting someone 1 feet, 2 feet, 1/2 a foot taller than ya. that’s your prerogative…just like it’s my perogative to ‘prefer’ a certain T/A ratio… *thumbs up*

    but someone let me know when the next meet up is…so i can get this leg-stretching surgery done…lol.

    Reply ↓

    • @peter parker – leg stretching surgery a la the Gattaca movie? Better have some serious nerve numbing medicine handy…

      Reply ↓

  69. I know that tall men make women feel safe, but, as I just read yesterday in an article, only 14.5% of men are over 6′ and just 3.9% are > or = 6’2″ or taller. Pickin’s up there are slim. Women need to realistic with their expectations.

    Two girlfriends I used to run with were about 5’5″, but insisted on a man who is over 6′. Years later they’re still single. They teased short me about stealing a tall guy – not that either one of these women would have gone any where my now-husband because he was, take your pick: nerdy, Jamaican, couldn’t dress, lived too far away, blah, blah, blah. Their list of criteria was long and ridiculous.

    This height fixation is not limited to black women. I fixed a white, short co-worker with a guy who was about 5’4″. He was LOADED, cute, funny and a really nice guy. She was turned off by his height, of course after he dropped a lot of money on her for just one dinner. He was taller than she was! (Had I not been dating my husband and we’d been the same religion, I’d have jumped all over him. Height and race aren’t isn’t my issues, but for me a guy has to be some kind of Christian, but not crazy Christian.)

    I tried to fix another friend up with the same guy. She’s about 5’1″ and she couldn’t imagine going out with such a short man. He checked off every criteria on her list except height and she nixed him, sight unseen. Again, she’s still single.

    I know that we all want our kids to have a chance at height, but you won’t have kids if you don’t have a man.

    Reply ↓

    • See here’s the trick. At 5’8 I get funny looks and reactions from the 5’5 to 5’10 crowd. Now the ladies 5’11 and up, or as we call them, The Mile High Club, are a different animal. When you’re pickings are slim and a good deal of them have itty bitty chicks or are intimidated by women ALMOST their height, a guy that’s waaaaaaayyyyyy shorter but fearless can stay winning. If you a shorter type dude don’t go after the one that just a little bit taller than you (she gonna hit you with the stink eye). Take a swing at the woman that’s 7,8,9 inches taller than you. Now she won’t take you seriously at first but when she figures out you’re for real she will politely >>> \_ and look you in your eye as you spit that hot fiyah!!

      Stay winning my below the rim friends!

      Reply ↓

      • lol @ this whole comment.

        So basically you’re saying a tall womans dating plight is sort of like a fat womans?

        Heaven forbid you be tall AND big! (Thank heavens I’m not!)

        If/when we meet….I’m going to have to watch you Mr. Corey. BOTH EYES!

        Reply ↓

        • Ms. or Mrs. depending on the year Tall AND Big right here!!

          in all honesty i will say i haven’t had a problem meeting men.. i sift through the same as the average lady… i meet the desirable and the not desirable just like everyone else… i’m sure i have missed out on some due to my size/height but i comfort myself by saying how much men can you really handle yoles? lol

          but all through this post i have yet to see a man short or tall say they would take the fatties (even though she can lose weight)

          Reply ↓

    • “I know that we all want our kids to have a chance at height, but you won’t have kids if you don’t have a man.”

      Well, that’s not entirely true but I definitely agree with the sentiment. Not to mention, getting a short man doesn’t men your kids will be short! That short man might be the only one is his that’s short; like others have mentioned, it’s just a genetic crap shoot.
      (And WTF would it matter if your kids were tall anyway? That I don’t get.)

      Reply ↓

      • As the mom of a very petite girl, I don’t care. My 4″10′ told me that she married my 5″10′ dad to give us a chance at height. It didn’t help me or my brother, but we’re happy.

        I actually had a crazy friend ask me if I was going to give my daughter growth hormones because taller people tend to be more successful in business. I told her that I wasn’t going to mess with God’s plan for my daughter (that and possibly give her cancer or whatever).

        Reply ↓

    • Wait…are Jamaican men supposed to be a no-no??? cause I loooooove me some yardie men!

      Maybe it’s a U.S. thing but I am in Toronto and women here love some Jamaican men. My sister and I were just talking the other day about all these woman from other islands scoopin up all the JA men.

      Oh well…who knew *shrug*

      Reply ↓

  70. I’m a shortie. I have preference to guys around 6’0. I’ve only recently become aware of this matter. A couple months ago I might have said women who are after tall men are full of brown, but I do get it now. I’ve never seriously concidered anyone who’s average height. I might think they’re nice and awesome and even handsome, but somehow they just never lgiht me up. I guess I’m one of those people who can’t help their preferences. (Shoulder long hair, mmmm.)

    I’m superficial!

    Reply ↓

      • “Short men have nothin goin for themelves!”

        Daaaaang Liz! You are going really hard on the short men today.

        *Grabs closest short man to hold his head to my bossom*

        Reply ↓

        • LOL! Sorry, I am being facetious :) I guess it wasn’t that obvious. But, I feel like some of the bitter-sounding people in here want folk to just come out and yell this at the top of their lungs.

          Reply ↓

        • Forgive me. I don’t know how to do strikethrough and I ain’t tryin to pull a Yoles today.
          *Grabs closest short man to hold his head to my *bossom* insert navel and now we’re cooking with grease

          Reply ↓

          • corey

            you’re gonna be easy on those under the breath insults… i apologized… geesh!!!!! Grrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrr

            Reply ↓

    • LOL, I understand having a preference, but you guys have to acknowledge, especially if you’re short anyway, the preference is purposeless.

      Reply ↓

  71. I find this post amusing. I’m a legit 6ft9 not slim dude and have dated women from 5ft even to 6ft2. It doesn’t really matter. People are people. I’ve been told by more than one that yes they feel safer when we’re out. Now I’m not a wild crazy azz fighting type dude but it rarely gets to that when you’re looking down on everybody else’s heads. Funny thing though is I went out with a 5ft4 chick and at the restaurant we were asked if it was one adult and one child.

    And to the folks bad-mouthing their parents because they’re short, stop it. My mom is 5ft6 and pops is 5ft11. My big sis and lil brother are both 6ft. Didn’t find out until my early teens that I had a great aunt on my mom’s side that was 6ft5. All of this to say, your height is a crap shoot.

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  72. im just getting in from da club so pardon if this doesnt make any sense.

    this post should make TRL and the like very happy. #noshots.

    it makes women out to be demons for having personal preferences when every person on the planet has them. every. single. one.
    men do any of these sound familiar?
    sick a$$ to waist ratio.
    freak in the sheets/lady in the streets.
    thick but not too thick. curvy but not too curvy.

    hair type. skin colour. height. weight. hands. toes. titties. batty. arms. left ankle. EVERYTHING is up for scrutiny when it comes to who you want to make babies with.
    some of it is social. some of it is historical. some is cultural. some is anthropological.

    cry me an effen river dudes. honestly.

    at the end of the day, a short dude still has a better chance of getting boo’d up than i do with my few extra lbs in some of the wrong places. no matter how much lip gloss i wear.
    because no matter how many women PREFER a tall dude, women are CONSTANTLY told to relax their preferences if we want to be in a relationship. AND DO.

    men are NEVER told to stop shooting for nicki minaj’s bodies. because being outnumbered, they never have to. sure, she might be crazy. but men will overlook that for x period of time as long as she fits the physical standard. meanwhile me and my 4 eyes will be in the corner… (let me stop with the self-deprecation, as i am not prepared to offer a pic into evidence of vsb court).

    and for every adrienne who wants a tall dude, there are chris’ who only want to date the lil ones (adrienne is the fiancee of chris bosh). that happens more often than not, and it cannot only be because the women want a tall dude. why can’t it be because the tall dude wants a pocket sized woman?

    and for the record, the ONLY woman that is going to turn down a dude in this hypothetical situation is a young and foolish one who believes there is better around the corner. kiss enough frogs, tortoises and toads, read enough blogs and newspaper articles, attend enough weddings solo and you figure out that your ovaries aren’t going to wait for TALL, dark and handsome to come along. Dark and handsome is just as good. (this is not against lighter peoples, just an expression).

    and with that…
    i’m out.

    Reply ↓

    • mhm.

      If you are saying that everyone has preferences and that any particular woman’s preference shouldn’t be up for debate or even discussion, then, are you saying that we should just accept that people have personal preferences EVEN IF those preferences interfere with that individuals ability to live a WELL ADJUSTED and HAPPY life?

      I presumed the purpose of this website/blog was to help identify issues in our dating lives so that we may more effectively navigate these “troubled waters”?

      But I got a question…are there women out there that would disqualify a 6’2″ 190lbs, work-out-aholic, college grad, with no progeny, a decent job and living alone IF HE DIDN”T HAVE PROPER GRAMMAR? Or couldn’t use punctuation marks. What if he was just a black republican that talked bad about poor people as “lazy and weak”?

      I mean, to what extents will a woman let a good guy go? This post really has me wondering….

      Reply ↓

      • “To what extent will a woman let a good guy go?”

        Good guy, in this case, is relative. A black Republican? Fine. A black Republican who steps on and over poor people? Not fine at all. Fine guy with job? Excellent. Fine guy with job and terrible grammar? Not excellent.

        For me, I need to be with a mental equal, and as an English major, poor grammar would irritate the hell out of me. As for the BR, I would be disgusted by his lack of compassion. I think I’m just figuring out what I want in a guy after putting up with so many guys who just…weren’t. And I think a lot of women do the same, but may get a little biased if say all the dudes she dated who did her wrong were black Republicans. She may ex out all BRs because of the perceived threat to her emotional well-being.

        You have to take people as individuals until they prove to be just like everyone else.

        Reply ↓

      • @sage jr

        i am not saying that a women’s preference shouldn’t be up for debate. nor am i saying that some women need to take a whole stadium of seats with their lists.

        “are you saying that we should just accept that people have personal preferences EVEN IF those preferences interfere with that individuals ability to live a WELL ADJUSTED and HAPPY life?”
        there are PLENTY of men who don’t want me. there are plenty of BM who don’t date BW. If I let these dudes interfere with my ability to live a well adjusted and happy life, then I have MUCH BIGGER issues.

        to what extent will a woman let a good guy go? i can’t answer that for all women. I can only say that we will/have/do walk to the ends of the earth to find and keep one.

        Reply ↓

        • somehow, I don’t think thats what I meant.

          Twisting my words, huh?

          I’m too descriptive to lack much of the necessary description but my lack I base on common knowledge. With that said, I figured it was reasonable to assume that you all would just think IN COMPARISON TO THE GUYS you are already dealing with.

          If I had a choice between the most stuck up woman that had all the qualities I admired and some I could live without….compared to a chick that only has some of the less admirable qualities that I like with many a variance….I’m going to deal with the drama queen diva because she has what I’ve been looking for. And I’m simply going to accept that I most likely won’t have the perfect balance that she wants either but that, I feel, is where working to get along comes into play.

          What I hear and see from women, is a 99% perfect ninja being discarded because he is an inch shorter than you with heels on. (I don’t actually know how to judge me…I’m just going by what you all say).

          Reply ↓

          • @sage

            homie..imma let you finish but when i do a direct copy and paste of YOUR words. they aren’t being twisted. you are being quoted and im responding IN KIND to your EXACT words.

            if i’ve interpreted them differently, it’s because i am not you, in your brain, knowing what your intent was when you wrote them. so.. please rewind and come again with that. please and thanks.

            i come to vsb to be educated and entertained. i dont expect full co-signs on everything i read and/or write.

            “What I hear and see from women, is a 99% perfect ninja being discarded because he is an inch shorter than you with heels on.”

            what i will say is this. posts like this (man vs women) always incur a lot of debate. because it’s full of gender bias, pandering, thirst and personal perspective. i find that too many people (women incl) say most when they shouldnt.

            like i said above. age can change your perspective alot. i’m sure when i was younger i wanted a lot of things that i have no interest in now. youth has a way of making you think that the world indeed is your oyster. there is definitely NO such thing as a perfect ninja and if he’s being discarded JUST because of his height.. she’s an idiot. plain and simple. and you won’t find many vss’ on this post today to say otherwise.

            Reply ↓

            • All points you made are loud and clear.

              I’ll refine any thoughts I send your way from this point forward.

              I agree with everything you just said. You are easily right.

              And my previous comment, as you may have figured, wasn’t really accurate enough to respond to what you said. I was wrong. My mistake. :-)

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    • KB
      “at the end of the day, a short dude still has a better chance of getting boo’d up than i do with my few extra lbs in some of the wrong places. no matter how much lip gloss i wear.
      because no matter how many women PREFER a tall dude, women are CONSTANTLY told to relax their preferences if we want to be in a relationship. AND DO.”

      see this is why i ? your comments… you speak the truth…

      i have yet to see any guy in here say they will take the fatties and unfortunate faced ones to show us how shallow it is… not one

      i’m tall i want him to be tall too
      #canilive

      Reply ↓

    • See…that’s what I’m talking about…that’s why I fuxx witchu!! *Boondocks* That entire comment was just beautiful :)

      Reply ↓

    • You know what I would take it a step further and say short men have better chance of being in a relationhsip period just due to the fact that they are men.

      Anywho I like what you had to say here, very real.

      Reply ↓

      • SayitWithYoChest

        yep. i agree. i think despite the obstacles.. men have it easier in the relationship game.

        Reply ↓

    • @ Keisha

      Thanks for the shout out.

      I don’t think that men necessarily have it easier in the relationship game. It all depends on what qualities that man has and whether there are women that are actually looking for them. You and I have discussed this at length enough, so I don’t think we need to go into specifics here.

      I still maintain that being most of what women say they want on paper means little to me if there are no women in real life (meaning, not on the Internet and not a long-distance relationship) that are actually following through with those wants. I don’t care about being good “on paper”. That’s why the 2003-04 Lakers didn’t four-peat….Instead of playing the same basketball that won them the first three titles, they wanted to stack a roster of Hall Of Famers and promptly got served up by my Detroit Pistons in the Finals. (#HadToShoutOutMyTeam)

      Anyhow….I agree that people have preferences and there’s nothing we can do about others’ preferences. I’m just looking for a demographic of women whose preferences I fall under so I can at least have, as the Venusian Arts would term it, a Target Selection with which to begin looking for decent women.

      And for the record, I am wiling to deal with a woman carrying a few extra pounds. I’m stocky (but not fat) in addition to being short, so I can relate to that. And people tell me I’m too picky because I prefer heterosexual women with jobs over the age of 21.

      Reply ↓

  73. I changed my name because I talk too much for my name to have silence in it.

    This is what I like:

    “Boy is “only” 5’10”, Girl’s no longer interested and her panties immediately dry back up. Girl’s homegirl realizes that this is the last straw, and, realizing that Girl will continue to make everyone’s life a living hell, hires and sends a team of ninjas (not “n*ggas,” but actual ninjas) to Girl’s apartment to murder her. They succeed”

    No personal experience on this one, I just think its perfect how women all seem to want the perfect man but men just want the most attractive woman they can think of. There seems to be a huge difference between the two ideals. Perfect=no flaws (@ all) and Most attractive woman = Beyonce/Halle/Vanessa(yes, Williams)

    ““I know it’s wrong to say this, but how’s it going to look when I bring my whale woman to the family reunion and she eats all the damn catfish?” (Ok, this was still kind of funny, but you get my point)”

    Alright, I’d be mad enough to fight if one big girl ate all of the catfish. That was a nick name from my early years because of the depths of my affinity for that particular bottom feeding fish. IDK what it is…but I’d start wars over that a lot sooner than I’d fight over a woman. Unless of course that woman ate all the gawt damb catfish!!!

    “it exposes women who attend services at Our Lady of The Completely Illogical Height Preferences as being just as shallow and superficial as they accuse men of being. While chiding men for going gaga for God-given gluteus gifts or (gasp!) having a certain hair or complexion preference”

    I feel like you wrote this post for all the semi-disgruntled brothas like me. Not because we have problems acquiring women BUT that we still have to deal with them like EVERYBODY ELSE. Even if these particular types of women could care less…it matters. Its made me smile, and I will forever be grateful for voicing the opinion of the ….well…you do that anyways but thats not the point….I just liked it…that is all.(Not really, I got much more to say- Bwaha!)

    I love women….but the things they think sometimes are problematic even though men take the blame. W/e its been that way since Knights in shining armor was rescuing ditzy ol’ princesses from fire breathin dragons because she done wandered into its den lookin for rare nocturnal flame orchid’s that only bloom when a dragon is breathin on ‘em. We took the brunt of the work then and we gotta do it now…ain’t no sense in complaining to your own woman about it, but go 100 on some random chick whenever just because….I’m serious, that sounds like a plan…go and kirk out just in the sake of a good ol ventin….like a verbal exorcist of emotions without a priest and without the vomit (unless you make her sick….hmmm) LOL, I’m Lovin it

    Reply ↓

    • I changed my name because I talk too much for my name to have silence in it.

      HA! i thought the same thing the other day!

      btw this was moderated cuz you changed your name.

      Reply ↓

      • I figured as much.
        Thanks for telling me.
        And wow….for thinking the same the other day.

        It was intentionally meant to be ironic…but I found myself getting annoyed at the usage…switch, hey eyyy ayyyyy eyyyyy na na nana

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  74. as a tall women i feel that my preferences should be respected… just like a person with degrees wanting to be with a person that also went to college or a person that’s a christian also wanting another christian. i’m bring what i want/expect to the table. i’m tall she should be my height preferably taller… that is not too much to ask is it? i don’t think its rude or whatever for me to say men under 5’5″ are not even on my radar. that’s real talk right there… i also want a man that can tilt my chin up to kiss but i’ll take one that looks me in the eye and goes for the kill!!

    now as for the munchkins with these far to the left requirements you get no co-sign, chest bump or uh huh from me… yall crazy talking bout i’m 5’3 he should be 6ft… WHAT?!?!?!?!

    i will not/can not and do not agree AT ALL

    Reply ↓

    • “i don’t think its rude or whatever for me to say men under 5’5? are not even on my radar. that’s real talk right there… i also want a man that can tilt my chin up to kiss but i’ll take one that looks me in the eye and goes for the kill!!”

      Word.Life. I love being able to stand on my tippy toes to kiss a guy. I can eye-to-eye or the top of most heads all day long. So when it comes to someone I’m romantically involved, I need the latter at least, to not be the case.

      I’m 5’11 barefoot. And while I’m good for an ill pair of ’95 Air Maxes, I’m also just as likely to be seen in a 5″ inch stiletto. (They make me feel like Superwoman and my legs just look so gosh darn good in them, sue me). So when a dude taps me on my shoulder at the club, and my eyes have to literally descent upon you to see what you look like…problem.

      It’s not about the safety or to firm up some level of insecurity I have in myself. But I’m a tall girl, and I can’t change that, but I won’t make a apologies for disregarding dudes that nullify 3/4 of my shoe collection.

      Also, don’t approach me and let your first comment(s) be about how tall I am. Thank you Captain Obvious, but of this, I was previously aware.

      Reply ↓

  75. I don’t date short men. Did it once and never again. Because I realize my own shalloness.(which I realize isn’t a word, but its the bday week so all things are on limits) I aNy tall kids and dark skinned kids. And km looking for the dude who is gonna give them to me.

    Now short dudes may have much to offer, but I’m not one if the “good things come in small packages” people. Like I said, I dated someone short and that’s a myth. Big things come in big packages. End of story.

    I won’t apologize for what I want. If I was of the variety who could get a dude, then maybe is feel differently. But I’m not, so I don’t. I think that’s a problem that women have. They ANna be “politically correct” instead of doing what they truly want and going after what they truly want in a man. Bottom line? Go for what you want and don’t settle.

    Reply ↓

    • ” Go for what you want and don’t settle.”

      But as men, we typically want more than any one Extra-regular dude can handle. 30 women all fine as the leading ladies of Hollywood. All them ladies to fawn and faint over extra-regularness. Sole access to them women without so much as a thought to the contrary. Now, in all honesty, thats what I want, BUT shouldn’t I be realistic? Shouldn’t I at least try and find a woman I can vibe with intellectually and emotionally, align goals and parenting ideals, plot future investments and locale of domain?

      Isn’t all of this shallowness too much ado about nothing? I mean, I probably ain’t the most handsome man, but you would have to tell me that cause I think I am. Confidence(under rated). I’m tall enough by y’alls standards and everything, so shouldn’t I be the one running around trying to stick to these hyped up and inflated ideals of worth and principle? Braggadocio aside, I’m simply saying, as far as attractive-ness goes, I am not wanting and it would be somewhat expected that I crossed every undesirable off my list. But I don’t. You do. I’m not judging but why is that okay for you when you COULD POTENTIALLY be cheating yourself of a lifetime of happiness?

      I’m asking…Not trying to come at you wrong but its not a nice question…I wanted to ask it and refused to settle with just thinking it(see that?)

      Reply ↓

      • Sage,
        The answers you seek are to be found in our evolutionary beginnings as human beings on the planet. The reason why Women tend to have mile long lists and so forth, and why Men for the most part do not, is because of the way Women and Men are wired. Eggs are expensive and sex is very risky for the female; sperm is cheap and sex not risky at all for the male. In a nutshell, that’s really all there is to it.

        It is far easier for a Man to “settle” than a Woman for precisely these reasons. If a Woman “settles” she could be making a disasterous mistake; if a Man “settles” great, on to the next one. Moreover, Men tend to “settle” a bit more than do Women because getting sex is quite a difficult thing to do for guys; easy as hell for ladies. This is why the socalled “double standard” persists – it’s really not a double standard at all, just a recognition that getting Women to say “yes!” is a heck of a lot hard for a guy, than for a gal to simply lie on her back and spread her legs. Evo-Psych isn’t politically correct; it pulls no punches as to the truth of our existence and how we came to be.

        Hope that helps.

        O.

        Reply ↓

        • I don’t know what it is that I’m typing that makes you think I don’t already know this. I’m a social sciences guy. Psycho/Socio/Anthro/History. I don’t speak from that book. I’m familiar the what academia says…I just want to hear how these women respond.

          This is much less about the science and more about these women. I’m taking this as a learning experience. Because, being right is only half the equation, application the other half.

          I hope you see where I’m coming from.

          -Sage

          Reply ↓

          • Sage,

            I’m sorry, but I do not see where you are coming from at all.

            With all due respect, what made me respond to you in the way that I did was because you gave me and perhaps everyone else in the room as well the distinct impression that you were NOT aware of these things. So, given that you are indeed aware of such truths, it begs the question:

            What was the point of your posting such comments in the first place? If we both understand, are aware of and know the fact that few if any Women in the blush of their youth and at the height of their beauty (ie, fertility) are going to say “you know what, desiring guys well over 6′ is just illogical for a whole host of reasons”, why are you pursuing this line of argument and questioning? We both agree that this is largely hardwired into Women, right? So, what is the point of trying to “reason” with them on it? Or berating them for it? I don’t get it. Please help me out? I need clarification. Thanks.

            O.

            Reply ↓

            • Alright, can you please stop saying with all due respect. I have a hard time believing you respect anyone.

              You can only speak for yourself EVEN when EVERYBODY agrees with you. Everybody else in the room doesn’t share your perspective. Cut that short.

              Do you post your comments for your personal benefit or that of others? Considering I just told you a bit of my background, you better know the correct answer is for yourself. Other people may factor in but without an interest, you wouldn’t even be here.

              Just as women are hard wired, men are hard wired too. If I can change how I think and feel through education, WHY IS IT THAT YOU ASSUME THEY CANNOT? Oh, because I’m a man? And I’m misogynistic?

              I hear you but what I also see in you is this great disdain that nobody else can seem to put a finger on. I don’t care to battle you about that, I agree with you when I see fit and ignore it otherwise.

              You have a ton of knowledge in your brain. You know how to acquire facts fairly proficiently. But to assume just because you have good qualities that your perspective is somehow infallible, well, thats where we differ.

              If it seems like I’m unaware, instead of questioning my credentials and pointing out the super obvious, then how about trying to see what exactly I’m getting at.

              I already mentioned I comment here as a way to acquire perspectives and reactions from women here. Thats why we communicate. Information.

              Beg the question? Its more like, why did you bother asking me a question based on an assumption you made about a person you didn’t have any real life experience with?

              Reply ↓

              • SIDENOTE: i’ve been waiting for a Sage vs Obsidian showdown for the past week or so! I knew it was bound to happen at some point. Didn’t expect it to happen so soon!

                *pops popcorn*

                Don’t fail me now, fellas!

                Reply ↓

                • Why would you want to see that?

                  What can be taken away from this?

                  We will simply get down to where we don’t agree. He has the popular approach. I have the eccentric approach. Although I see the validity in his thoughts and efforts, I sincerely cannot agree to the manner in which his approach operates.

                  There is no real argument or worthwhile discussion to be had.

                  I just need him to stop trying to preach to me. In essence, I’m saying, I’m no different than the women. They feel and think what they want no matter how it affects the overall logic of the decision to feel that certain way.

                  I don’t know why y’all don’t see that.

                  Reply ↓

                  • I think it’s cute that you think he has a popular approach. You guys are both eccentric, that’s why this is interesting to me lol. He’s not mr popular approach, he’s just wordy.

                    You two may be having a worthy and worthwhile discussion between yalls thoughtfulness and longwindedness. i wouldn’t know, as i skimmed most of the exchange :)

                    also, lighten up. this is in fun in the end. or at least, we try. when it’s not fun is when we have to regulate.

                    Reply ↓

                    • Well, “The more you know….”

                      I am not Tom Cruise…
                      ~*jumps off Oprah’s couch*~

                      *Pauses*

                      *Breaks fourth wall*

                      *Poises like a raptor and runs at screen with shrill roar*

                      “Its Johnny!!!”

              • Hi Sage,
                Listen Brotha, Mercury’s going backward through the sky as we speak so it’s real easy for us to get the lines of communication crossed here; but since we’re in it, might as well try to make the best of it…

                Let’s agree that we both have a bit more than some grey matter sitting on top of our shoulders and get right to the heart of the matter: you essentially want Women to think like Men do, AND IT AIN’T GONNA HAPPEN. At least not the Women the vasy majority of Brothas want, anyway. You and I have agreed that Women are largely hardwired (as are we, as Men) to like what we like in a subconscious way; we’ve both agreed that this understanding comes to us as a result of a body of knowledge that has focused on these things. Why then, do you persist in this line of questioning – what purpose does it serve? What’s the point of it all? How is any of this going to help any of the short Brothas here? How is it going to help Malik? Or The Realest Leo? Or Peter Parker? Yea, Women having a preference for taller Men, ie, Men 6′ and over, is in our time of advanced technology where a kid can pickup an AK-47 and blow Michael Clarke Duncan’s head off is patently illogical – so what? This ain’t about logic, Man. And I think you’re smart enough to know that. So what’s the point of you doing this? What, because you’re upset because Women are being hypocritical? Yo Sage, dig this: everybody lies. Yea, Women can and will be hypocritical about their preferences while at the same time, dogging us Brothas out for being “superficial”. What else is new? I mean, do we, as two grownassed Men, really have to have an in-depth discussion about this? Come on.

                Why am I here? I’m here, because I see a need that is going unfulfilled and unmet, and that is, that there are quite a few Brothas who don’t have a freaking clue as to how to meet Women. And no one else gives a damn if they do or don’t learn it either. Black Women have all manner of resources and assistance all up and down the chain, and if you’re a Brotha already in the know, you’re in great shape. If you’re Malik, or Pete, or Leo, or another dozen or so Brothas, right here in this forum to say nothing about everywhere else on the Internet and out in the real, your ass is up a creek without a paddle, and no one could possibly care less. Steve Harvey’s made it crystal clear that he ain’t writing no books to help Brothas out, and if you can name me three that are already out I will shut up right here, right now. Until then, I’m gonna continue my mission, which is to share what I’ve learned over the course of my life and the result of my studies in the Art of Love and the Science of Seduction because there are Brothas that need it and because I give a damn.

                A huge problem I see when it comes to these matters is that guys want Women to think like Men, and guess what, THEY AIN’T MEN. Womens’ entire brain wiring and hormonal chemistry is vastly different from our own; you claim to know all this, so again why do you persist in your line of questioning? What point does it serve? How does it help anybody here? Is it for your own ego-aggrandizement? If the latter, hey I can’t throw rocks; but I least try to bring just a weebit of light with the heat:

                “But here’s yet another reason as to why “bad boys” get more girls, and that includes the ones the smart, brainy, “good guys” think should be with them – its because the bad boys understand, either intuitively or through a learned process or both, how to see the world through a Woman’s eyes, how to think the way a Woman does, and to have at least the appearance of being cool with that. While quite a few bad boy types are clearly misogynistic, in truth, I say it is the “Beta Male” types that proliferate the Manosphere, who harbor a goodly degree more utter contempt for the feminine point of view. This explains why so many guys in the Manosphere have so many complaints about the interests and desires of Women; in their view, theirs is not only the superior way of thinking, but it is the ONLY way of thinking – and they are bitter beyond words that these stupid Women don’t see that and get with that good for nothing ne’er do well.

                But the truth – the harsh, bitter truth – is that the Brainy Guys often get passed over, not just because they don’t step up and approach the ladies (or when they do they’re so woefully outta pocket it’s not even funny), but also because Women can pickup on these guys’ sense of moral superiority, their intellectual hubris, and their belief that they are right, and they’re looking down on the things most Women hold very dear, like emotions, feelings, interacting with others – all the while being incongruent as a MoFo. Why do I say that? Because these tend to be the guys who don’t have any interest or caring about grooming to say nothing of style; because they live in their heads for most of their lives, they either don’t give any thought to the other aspects of themselves, including the physical, and as well, they often think that they only thing that matters is the life of the mind as they understand it.”

                “Shii-Cho Game” & Killing The “Brainy Guys Don’t Get Laid” Fallacy
                http://obsidianraw.bravejournal.com/entry/62839

                The Game, is not only linear, but it is also largely MENTAL – and the first big change that has to happen for a lot of guys, is that their mindset must change, from one of bitterness, resentment and outrage, to one of openess, a willingness to learn and a can-do spirit. If all that happens here is that Brothas come away from the discussion feeling even more dejected, more resentful, hateful even, of Women, what will that mean, Sage? More drama between Brothas and Sistas? More acrimony? More sniping and backbiting and hatin’ on each other – as if we need more of that?

                So yea, I’m here because I want to do what I can to give the Good Brothas here a fighting chance to win the hearts and minds of Sistas here or anywhere else they find them – not some mamby-pamby BS pablum that guys like Paul Carrick Brunson talks or some quasi-metaphysical mumbo jumbo that already tall, good looking and financially successful guys spout off to make some extra bucks; but the real deal, nitty gritty nuts and bolts how-to steps toward learning the Art of Love and the Science of Seduction. And I offer my own testimony as proof that it can be done. I’m tired of seeing jam-packed venues like the Eric Roberson concert in Soho, or the Raphael Siddiq show in Central Park last Summer, where the guys acted like they were back in junior highschool and the Women were damn near coming out of their clothes trying to get guys to step to them – this is NYC, for crying out loud. I have never witnessed so many Lameassed Brothas in one city before in all my days. That’s gotta stop – I don’t think it’s possible for Sistas to mean-mug it anymore than they already have. No wonder so many of them are so thoroughly upset; my fox terrier’s got more Game than the vast majority of these dudes.

                Yo Sage, it is what it is. Women, if they can choose it, can and will prefer more height in a Man than less. That’s life! But it doesn’t mean that one’s life is over because of this fact. A Man CAN do something about it. I sure as hell did. And I think other Brothas here can, too.

                So, that’s why I’m here; to meaningfully contribute to the discussions that take place here, to give practical, yet highly useful advice to those who could use it. Because I want to see more Black folk get together, that’s why. But in order for that to happen, Brothas MUST have at least SOME Game. Being a “good guy” ain’t enough, just like that chick looking like Aunt Esther but got a heart of gold ain’t enough.

                Any questions?

                Your serve…

                O.

                Reply ↓

                • ” you essentially want Women to think like Men do”

                  Not at all. Again. Inaccurate.

                  “Why then, do you persist in this line of questioning – what purpose does it serve? What’s the point of it all? How is any of this going to help any of the short Brothas here? How is it going to help Malik? Or The Realest Leo? Or Peter Parker?”

                  you ever heard that old saying “Nobody can help you until you decide to help yourself” or “God bless the child that has it’s own”? The same concept, you can try to help everybody in the World but UNTIL THEY WANT YOUR HELP, you are wasting your breath.

                  “what, because you’re upset because Women are being hypocritical?”

                  Again not at all… its not about the hypocrisy at all, thats a mere sideshow. I’m focused on the individuals involved, you on the “type” of individuals involved. That’s pretty much the trend people stick to…just saying. “A guy who says this…blah” “A girl who says this…blah”. Its actually deeper than that<==pretty much my entire point ever.

                  “I mean, do we, as two grownassed Men, really have to have an in-depth discussion about this?”

                  Not at all, we don’t have any real reason to back and forth. But you and most other arguments critical of me produce the sentiment “that if you could, you would” but I’ve always thought differently than that. I don’t understand that “could, would” logic. I mean, why so many people believe in that crap.

                  “Steve Harvey’s made it crystal clear that he ain’t writing no books to help Brothas out”

                  HILARIOUS!

                  “ego-aggrandizement”

                  Its almost like you don’t see it. Go look in the mirror and say that.

                  Naw, I’ve said it before, I find pleasure in sharing and receiving responses. I’m simply happy to be included. All I want/desire is their honest opinions/perspectives. I’m not here on some self-proclaimed prophetic mission to guide men from the depths of unsuccessful courtship, or even to brag, If I want to brag, I’ll grab a microphone and start rapping *Album out in stores June Umpteenth*

                  “its because the bad boys understand, either intuitively or through a learned process or both, how to see the world through a Woman’s eyes, “

                  this bit was absurd. That presumes that others don’t. I have had many a nerd friend who understood women and saw the World through their eyes but there is another aspect you missed here. Sacrifice. More on that later…

                  I’ll take your entire 5th stanza/paragraph as a slight. I think you are smart enough to do that and mean it. :-) Again, not insulted.

                  “If all that happens here is that Brothas come away from the discussion feeling even more dejected, more resentful, hateful even, of Women, what will that mean, Sage? More drama between Brothas and Sistas? More acrimony? More sniping and backbiting and hatin’ on each other – as if we need more of that?”

                  I guess you just got everything figured out, huh?
                  This to me is cute. I cannot say anything truly contrary to the idea that success breeds positive feelings…everything I read leads me to the same conclusion….I just know its not all that simple. See, to me, if a guy is going to be bitter by interacting with women, he will stay that way until he finds religion to change him or he decides to change himself.

                  “… good looking and financially successful guys spout off to make some extra bucks; but the real deal, nitty gritty nuts and bolts how-to steps toward learning the Art of Love and the Science of Seduction.”

                  I thoroughly enjoyed the passion in this statement. One thing though, what makes you any different? You are just taking a different angle with supposedly more respectable intentions.

                  I feel like you just advertised to me about the abilities and skills you possess and I dare say, you market well my good sir, You Market Well.

                  If anybody finds anything of value in your words, I strongly recommend them to follow. That was never, at any point, my point of contention. Your attempts to force feed and stuff your opinion down the un-accepting throats of your peers, well, yeah, especially in me being one of them.

                  You say to bring meaningful (“….”) into the conversation but nobody has a patent on meaningful. The most incoherent rambling could inspire creativity and positive growth.

                  I simply find your approach largely presumptive. “I think” you speculate and assume that men are two dimensional enough for you to read them clearly without them first telling you why they say what they say.

                  What they want is more important than how you can help them get what they want. Maybe, you should ask questions before interjecting with your brand of though.

                  -Sage

                  Reply ↓

                  • Hello Sage,
                    Replies below:

                    ” you essentially want Women to think like Men do”

                    S: Not at all. Again. Inaccurate.

                    O: Fair enough. Then please allow me to ask: WHY ARE YOU DOING THIS, Sage? Please explain?

                    “Why then, do you persist in this line of questioning – what purpose does it serve? What’s the point of it all? How is any of this going to help any of the short Brothas here? How is it going to help Malik? Or The Realest Leo? Or Peter Parker?”

                    S: you ever heard that old saying “Nobody can help you until you decide to help yourself” or “God bless the child that has it’s own”? The same concept, you can try to help everybody in the World but UNTIL THEY WANT YOUR HELP, you are wasting your breath.

                    O: That may indeed be the case. But I am of the view that if such guys are here and are expressing the sentiments they’re expressing, they are indeed asking for assistance, and I’m gonna give em what I got. If that’s something that bothers you Sage, hey, I can dig it; after all, it’s long been known in Black America, that the Game isn’t to be sold or told, right? And who are you to say if what I’m saying is nothing more than tossing pearls before swine? So sure are you, of this? Interesting!

                    “what, because you’re upset because Women are being hypocritical?”

                    S: Again not at all… its not about the hypocrisy at all, thats a mere sideshow. I’m focused on the individuals involved, you on the “type” of individuals involved. That’s pretty much the trend people stick to…just saying. “A guy who says this…blah” “A girl who says this…blah”. Its actually deeper than that<==pretty much my entire point ever.

                    O: Then how is it that quite a few ladies thus far have come to pretty much the same conclusion I've come to, Sage? And let's be clear – I'm no White Knight by any stretch here. Yet we all pretty much agree (and a few guys too btw) that the tone of your remarks suggest something other than a mere desire to share and converse. What gives?

                    “I mean, do we, as two grownassed Men, really have to have an in-depth discussion about this?”

                    S: Not at all, we don’t have any real reason to back and forth. But you and most other arguments critical of me produce the sentiment “that if you could, you would” but I’ve always thought differently than that. I don’t understand that “could, would” logic. I mean, why so many people believe in that crap.

                    O: ? I had no such thing in mind when I wrote my response to you, though I cannot speak for the intentions of others. My point was simply that it was futile to upbraid or even calmly question why Women have the preferences they do. Especially when we claim to understand the underpinnings of said preferences. Sure, we can do it, but again I must ask, to what end? What good does it do, ultimately?

                    “Steve Harvey’s made it crystal clear that he ain’t writing no books to help Brothas out”

                    S: HILARIOUS!

                    O: Quite: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Eq1ym9bph4w

                    “ego-aggrandizement”

                    S: Its almost like you don’t see it. Go look in the mirror and say that.

                    O: I did: "Is it for your own ego-aggrandizement? If the latter, hey I can't throw rocks; but I least try to bring just a weebit of light with the heat…"

                    Did you miss that part?

                    S: Naw, I’ve said it before, I find pleasure in sharing and receiving responses. I’m simply happy to be included. All I want/desire is their honest opinions/perspectives. I’m not here on some self-proclaimed prophetic mission to guide men from the depths of unsuccessful courtship, or even to brag, If I want to brag, I’ll grab a microphone and start rapping *Album out in stores June Umpteenth*

                    O: Yes, but WHY does that bother you so much? So what if a guy on the Internet wants to help other Brothas out – what's it to YOU? That's what I'm trying to get to here, Sage. I like to teach and share what I've learned. That is who I am be, who I am here on this earth. No one is forcing you, or anyone else to check me out. You are free, at anytime, to engage with others – and if you notice, for the most part, I don't get involved in most others' convos here. In fact, I read along more than anything else. So, it's something really getting at you about what I'm doing, and I'd really like to discuss what that is. Care to talk about it?

                    “its because the bad boys understand, either intuitively or through a learned process or both, how to see the world through a Woman’s eyes, “

                    S: this bit was absurd. That presumes that others don’t. I have had many a nerd friend who understood women and saw the World through their eyes but there is another aspect you missed here. Sacrifice. More on that later…

                    O: I look forward to that offering of yours on the question of how Sacrifice plays a role here.

                    S: I’ll take your entire 5th stanza/paragraph as a slight. I think you are smart enough to do that and mean it. Again, not insulted.

                    O: There was no intention to insult. But you are free to interpret what was written in any way you wish.

                    “If all that happens here is that Brothas come away from the discussion feeling even more dejected, more resentful, hateful even, of Women, what will that mean, Sage? More drama between Brothas and Sistas? More acrimony? More sniping and backbiting and hatin’ on each other – as if we need more of that?”

                    S: I guess you just got everything figured out, huh?
                    This to me is cute. I cannot say anything truly contrary to the idea that success breeds positive feelings…everything I read leads me to the same conclusion….I just know its not all that simple. See, to me, if a guy is going to be bitter by interacting with women, he will stay that way until he finds religion to change him or he decides to change himself.

                    O: That's certainly one way to look at it. I have another view: if a single guy is coming here to a place like VSB, etc et al, then he's looking – either looking to see if he can make something happen with the ladies here, or looking for some information that will aid him to that end. Why not put some out there? After all, no one's being forced to "receive" it – if it don't apply, let it fly and all that…

                    “… good looking and financially successful guys spout off to make some extra bucks; but the real deal, nitty gritty nuts and bolts how-to steps toward learning the Art of Love and the Science of Seduction.”

                    S: I thoroughly enjoyed the passion in this statement. One thing though, what makes you any different? You are just taking a different angle with supposedly more respectable intentions.

                    O: What makes me different? Oh, I don't know – maybe the only Brotha who discusses such things with the a view toward clarity and specificity?

                    S: I feel like you just advertised to me about the abilities and skills you possess and I dare say, you market well my good sir, You Market Well.

                    O: Thank you!-although I have no "product" to "sell", LOL.

                    S: If anybody finds anything of value in your words, I strongly recommend them to follow. That was never, at any point, my point of contention. Your attempts to force feed and stuff your opinion down the un-accepting throats of your peers, well, yeah, especially in me being one of them.

                    O: Please. No one is holding a pistol to you or anyone else's head and forcing them to read what I write. There are more than one thousand comments on this thread alone, to say nothing of countless other threads; hundreds of people a day contribute. You, or anyone else, can easily scroll right on by my comments to someone else's, no problem. There is something else that's eating you when it comes to me, Sage. Out with it – what's the deal? Does it bother that I am unabashed in what I feel I should do to help? Please explain?

                    S: You say to bring meaningful (“….”) into the conversation but nobody has a patent on meaningful. The most incoherent rambling could inspire creativity and positive growth.

                    O: It can, but alas, for the mere mortals among us who are unable or uninterested in mining the pearls of wisdom out of the sonic morass, it simply doesn't work that way. I get that the step by step approach isn't appealing to you. Fair enough. The Black community is chockfull of Brothas such as yourself, and I for one have no problem in the least with them or you. But as you made it clear already, you're not the one with the problem – you already have a lady, and could get another in a heartbeat, or words to that effect – right? So, why does it bother you that I wish to assist others to get what you have, Sage? Why is that so very bad in your eyes? Please explain?

                    S: I simply find your approach largely presumptive. “I think” you speculate and assume that men are two dimensional enough for you to read them clearly without them first telling you why they say what they say.

                    O: By all means, you are entitled to your opinion – including what you think you know of my offlist interactions with such Men.

                    S: What they want is more important than how you can help them get what they want. Maybe, you should ask questions before interjecting with your brand of though.

                    O: Indeed; what do you think they want, Sage? I mean, why are they here? Hmm? What do you think?

                    O: Why not be so good as to teach us? I for one am always willing to learn.

                    Proceed, sir.

                    O.

                    Reply ↓

                    • O: Fair enough. Then please allow me to ask: WHY ARE YOU DOING THIS, Sage? Please explain?

                      I wasn’t under the assumption that I needed some….grandeur…to blog. Maybe you take this too seriously.

                      IDK if you are successful/

                      I know full well you cannot force people over the internet/

                      I agree with your desire to help, I think you have an
                      admirable quality in wanting to share something you believe to help others

                      -BUT ask yourself, how does this separate you from religious zealots.

                      AS for how people perceive me, it plays into my pride(read: arrogance) and I’m fully aware of how I come off…/

                      Additionally, you don’t “hear” my tone, you fabricate what you believe my tone to be-/

                      Why any of this has to be for a good, I really think you are over importing the significance of an opinion based solely on a perspective. You are like some uber-convinced robocop out for justice./

                      90 day rule…big effin deal. Men will be the dawgs women let them be….if a woman is tool enough to live her life by the rule of a man who dogged the crap out of his own wife….then I say, let em…You cannot save people from themselves…just give em directions to the lake and see if they drink/

                      I’ve told you twenty times if I told you once…your horrendous assumption that you can immediately apply YOUR logic and experience into another man’s World and suddenly, VOILA* everything is fine….ego-aggrandizement and you don’t see why I boomeranged that back at you?

                      now, sacrifice is simple. People want to be WHO they ARE and not who you can make them…they don’t want to sacrifice themselves at your whim.

                      Oh, I see most of what you do as an insult. Why? Because you assume to know what I don’t, You assume that I’m rougher or any other brother who expresses a pensive perspective rather than the socially acceptable cheery and femininely affirming is suddenly lacking in an ability to acquire female attention. You, sir, are far more pretentious than even myself…you just don’t care who’s toes you step on, or what people are actually dealing with, otherwise, you would find a way to pull them aside and properly approach people…you will rarely ever be affective when CONFRONTING these men, in the public venue that is the vsb threads.

                      attendance at VSB is clearly a sign that people want your attention, because I only ever came here for the humor and community. Lol…why lawd, why…did you say that?

                      You are selling yourself, you are selling your brand of thought and the thoughts that you subscribe to. (think: drug dealer recruitment-as in their particular way of packaging and distribution)

                      Stop talking down and under-estimating people….clearly, I’ve said this, you don’t come across as a friendly voice but rather as a pushy salesman. You don’t catch my allusions and if you do, you are just rude about it. unabashed…cool, I like that, but not caring if they want your help….another….

                      At the same time, you use an argument to say I ain’t being force to read you, and nobody else is either, you aren’t being forced to reply to me, or to think that I have some hidden issues in my dealings with women. But you do what you do….I do what I do….and somehow, we’ve come here.

                      As for why anybody is here, I fathom it is for reasons not much different than my own. and by that, because Champ & Panama are some funny dudes that write about funny things and throwing Liz into that equation makes it all that much more enticing. I don’t know that anybody came here thinking they were going to solve every or any relationship issue they had. But talking about things helps, talking and expressing may be completely under rated but this is a place to do it while in a community with some what like minded individuals. The allure of commonality and expression is hard to beat, I think people aren’t too distressed to solve their own problems….respect that aspect of individuality. Because without that respect, what can you expect.

                      I don’t need to know what they want but I’ll be sure to ask someone in the most discreet way possible if I see an opportunity.

                      I love teaching myself but I don’t presume that what I have to teach is something that everyone can comfortably hold, because that is the root of why people don’t like what I say…it sounds off…meaning they aren’t open to my logic (flaws and all) and I merely express what I think fits….which is by no means super great but I never presumed to have anything special but my perspective WHICH is why I share it….the more feedback the better….doesn’t matter if its good or bad.

                      I am a loud mouth. I like to express. I love to hear what people interpret but sometimes, I play the game too closely for them…hence negative reactions. I enjoy those too….emotion is fun.

                      I’ll admit. I’m a bit of a nuisance…like the kid that doesn’t tire…it just seems like the more out of touch with reality people think I am, the more they actually are.

                      I would say its your turn to respond, but it appears that time has expired on our debate. Feel free of course, to continue in any sense this discourse…I just don’t see much coming of this, I’m actually encouraging you to do what you do, telling you not to mind what I’ve said and offering felicitations in the case you succeed with many brothas…JUST STOP ASSUMING I AM ONE OF YOUR HERD….I am not.

                      IDC how you come at other men, or anyone else…they will check you if they so desire…but if you continue lumping me in based on your preconceived notions of frustration and bitterness, I’m just going to ignore you. You ain’t seen what I seen, you don’t know what I know, but you sure as all of creation are willing to assume that you indeed do.

                      I wish you only the best, sincerely

                      -Sage

                    • Hey Sage,
                      Thanks for the dialogue; replies below:

                      O: Fair enough. Then please allow me to ask: WHY ARE YOU DOING THIS, Sage? Please explain?

                      S: I wasn’t under the assumption that I needed some….grandeur…to blog. Maybe you take this too seriously.

                      O: You take it seriously enough to post multiple times today/yesterday. Right?

                      S: IDK if you are successful/

                      O: Time, will tell…

                      S: I know full well you cannot force people over the internet/

                      O: I never claimed or intentioned otherwise. This is a free will thing here. Whomsoever will, let them come.

                      S: I agree with your desire to help, I think you have an
                      admirable quality in wanting to share something you believe to help others

                      O: Thank you.

                      S: -BUT ask yourself, how does this separate you from religious zealots.

                      O: Maybe it doesn’t. Does that bother you?

                      S: AS for how people perceive me, it plays into my pride(read: arrogance) and I’m fully aware of how I come off…/

                      O: Fair enough.

                      S: Additionally, you don’t “hear” my tone, you fabricate what you believe my tone to be-/

                      O: I’ve done no such thing.

                      S: Why any of this has to be for a good, I really think you are over importing the significance of an opinion based solely on a perspective. You are like some uber-convinced robocop out for justice./

                      O: Do you have a thing against the Boys in Blue?

                      S: 90 day rule…big effin deal. Men will be the dawgs women let them be….if a woman is tool enough to live her life by the rule of a man who dogged the crap out of his own wife….then I say, let em…You cannot save people from themselves…just give em directions to the lake and see if they drink/

                      O: You have completely missed the point I was getting at wrt the YouTube Harvey video. My point was his remarks as to why he didn’t intend to write any books for Black Men.

                      S: I’ve told you twenty times if I told you once…your horrendous assumption that you can immediately apply YOUR logic and experience into another man’s World and suddenly, VOILA* everything is fine….ego-aggrandizement and you don’t see why I boomeranged that back at you?

                      O: No.

                      S: now, sacrifice is simple. People want to be WHO they ARE and not who you can make them…they don’t want to sacrifice themselves at your whim.

                      O: I never should they should. In fact, I don’t want them to.

                      S: Oh, I see most of what you do as an insult. Why? Because you assume to know what I don’t, You assume that I’m rougher or any other brother who expresses a pensive perspective rather than the socially acceptable cheery and femininely affirming is suddenly lacking in an ability to acquire female attention. You, sir, are far more pretentious than even myself…you just don’t care who’s toes you step on, or what people are actually dealing with, otherwise, you would find a way to pull them aside and properly approach people…you will rarely ever be affective when CONFRONTING these men, in the public venue that is the vsb threads.

                      O: I meet people where they are. If they are in a public venue and I think they could use a bit of assistance, I’m gonna step to them in said venue. If it’s possible I can get at them off to the side, I’ll do that. As for my views of you, to be frank, I really don’t have much of anything to go on. To me you’re just a disembodied voice in cyberspace – hardly anything with which to craft an opinion either way.

                      S: attendance at VSB is clearly a sign that people want your attention, because I only ever came here for the humor and community. Lol…why lawd, why…did you say that?

                      O: I never said any such thing. I knew this thing during Mercury Rx would be pretty bad…

                      S: You are selling yourself, you are selling your brand of thought and the thoughts that you subscribe to. (think: drug dealer recruitment-as in their particular way of packaging and distribution)

                      O: LOL. Again, the analogy fails, since I have no product to sell. Only passing along what I have learned to those who find it useful. You still haven’t explained how you know for certain no one out there has indeed found it useful. You were saying?

                      S: Stop talking down and under-estimating people….clearly, I’ve said this, you don’t come across as a friendly voice but rather as a pushy salesman. You don’t catch my allusions and if you do, you are just rude about it. unabashed…cool, I like that, but not caring if they want your help….another….

                      O: Then speed on, Sage. Don’t read anything I say. Problem solved.

                      S: At the same time, you use an argument to say I ain’t being force to read you,

                      O: You’re not.

                      S: and nobody else is either,

                      O: They’re not

                      S: you aren’t being forced to reply to me,

                      O: I’m not, but I’m not the one whining, moaning and bitching about things either. You are.

                      S: or to think that I have some hidden issues in my dealings with women.

                      O: I never made any such claim, Mr. Strawman.

                      S: But you do what you do….I do what I do….and somehow, we’ve come here.

                      O: Indeed.

                      S: As for why anybody is here, I fathom it is for reasons not much different than my own.

                      O: I didn’t ask why “anybody” was here, I asked as to why the guys were here.

                      S: and by that, because Champ & Panama are some funny dudes that write about funny things and throwing Liz into that equation makes it all that much more enticing.

                      O: No doubt.

                      S: I don’t know that anybody came here thinking they were going to solve every or any relationship issue they had.

                      O: How do you know this? Please explain?

                      S: But talking about things helps, talking and expressing may be completely under rated but this is a place to do it while in a community with some what like minded individuals.

                      O: When have I ever expressed a disdain towards talking and dialogue? I’d like to see that quote.

                      S: The allure of commonality and expression is hard to beat, I think people aren’t too distressed to solve their own problems….respect that aspect of individuality. Because without that respect, what can you expect.

                      O: If people are content to solve their own problems, they are more than free to do as I advise you to do when you see me – scroll on. Problem. Solved.

                      S: I don’t need to know what they want but I’ll be sure to ask someone in the most discreet way possible if I see an opportunity.

                      O: Do you.

                      S: I love teaching myself but I don’t presume that what I have to teach is something that everyone can comfortably hold, because that is the root of why people don’t like what I say…it sounds off…meaning they aren’t open to my logic (flaws and all) and I merely express what I think fits….which is by no means super great but I never presumed to have anything special but my perspective WHICH is why I share it….the more feedback the better….doesn’t matter if its good or bad.

                      O: Good for you. I on the other hand, have found something I think quite a few Brothas could stand to benefit from, and I am keen to make certain they are aware of it. So there.

                      S: I am a loud mouth. I like to express. I love to hear what people interpret but sometimes, I play the game too closely for them…hence negative reactions. I enjoy those too….emotion is fun.

                      O: Ah, I see. Why then begrudge others for having a big mouth, then?

                      S: I’ll admit. I’m a bit of a nuisance…like the kid that doesn’t tire…it just seems like the more out of touch with reality people think I am, the more they actually are.

                      O: Uh-huh. OK.

                      S: I would say its your turn to respond, but it appears that time has expired on our debate. Feel free of course, to continue in any sense this discourse…I just don’t see much coming of this, I’m actually encouraging you to do what you do, telling you not to mind what I’ve said and offering felicitations in the case you succeed with many brothas…JUST STOP ASSUMING I AM ONE OF YOUR HERD….I am not.

                      O: ? I’m sorry, when did this happen?

                      S: IDC how you come at other men, or anyone else…they will check you if they so desire…but if you continue lumping me in based on your preconceived notions of frustration and bitterness, I’m just going to ignore you. You ain’t seen what I seen, you don’t know what I know, but you sure as all of creation are willing to assume that you indeed do.

                      O: I never said any such thing about you. I clearly restated what you said in this very form earlier, that you were already with a lady and could easily rebound should you found yourself single again – so, exactly how am I “lumping in” you with anyone else again? I missed the part where I supposedly did this…

                      S: I wish you only the best, sincerely

                      O: As do I

                      O.

                • @ Obsidian,
                  “But in order for that to happen, Brothas MUST have at least SOME Game. Being a “good guy” ain’t enough, just like that chick looking like Aunt Esther but got a heart of gold ain’t enough.”

                  I concur.
                  God bless your intentions.

                  Reply ↓

                • @Obsidian

                  You are a very deep thinker Obsidian… and i agree mostly w/ this, alot of detail but is very powerful i will pay closer attention to your posts also in the future man and preach on

                  Reply ↓

      • Sage–There are enough men in the world for my physical preference of taller, darker and attactive to be met. So my goals are realistic. What you laid out is fantasy…unless you’re Mormon in the land of milk and honey. Otherwise, you should tailor what you want and go for what you like.

        Reply ↓

        • @Mo-VSS
          (btw-I just realized there is a VSS in your SN)
          but when you think that 1.3B people are East Indian and well over 2.B people are Asian, how many people does that leave applicable to your standard. Sure, it only takes one. He could come from literally anywhere. I’m not stating precise logic, more like loosely theorized hypothesizing.

          Reply ↓

  76. Maaaannnnnnnnnn! I am a 6′ tall woman, and everytime I hear a woman under under 5’5″ saying they only date men over 6′ I have the immediate urge to kick them in the side of their knees. DAMNIT!

    And for the tall men, don’t you ever get annoyed having to carry these little girls around in your pocket?! Bending over for kisses and everything else. SMH, you’re gonna end up a humpback. #itsyourownfault

    I don’t discriminate, I have dated 6’8″ to 6′ down to 5’8″. There is nothing worse than feeling “overgrown” as a grown woman.

    Reply ↓

    • Kicking people in the knees?! I LOVE IT!!! Hunchback?! I just can’t stop laughing…but I agree with you all the way about feeling overgrown. It’s just not a good look at all.

      Reply ↓

  77. “kiss enough frogs, tortoises and toads, read enough blogs and newspaper articles, attend enough weddings solo and you figure out that your ovaries aren’t going to wait for TALL, dark and handsome to come along. Dark and handsome is just as good”

    What about just ‘dark’??? Some of us got hit with the double whammy (1 out of 3)…so I’m saying….can just a ______, dark, & ______ get some attention too?? lol

    SN: And yes, you really need to stop w/ the self-deprecation…..

    Reply ↓

    • WTH??? I’ve obviously been placed in foster care, cuz this is not where this comment is s’posed to be. This was in response to KB…

      Reply ↓

    • @DG:
      i’ll stop if you do.
      but it handsome is in the eye of the beholder. who is fine/sexy/cute to one, may not be to another. and as this post also proves, the definition of tall changes.

      ftr: i dont demand a tall dude. i just like taller than me.

      ps: LMAO @ comment in foster care.

      Reply ↓

      • I concur…one woman’s trash is another woman’s treasure…

        And this: “i dont demand a tall dude. i just like taller than me”…

        …I think most men fully understand and appreciate this kind of thinking.

        Reply ↓

  78. hmmm, I think I just lost some long comments to moderation. What can one say….Ayo technology.

    I was excited…now, I’m disenchanted. Blah.

    To all the dudes under 6 ft, just know that women over the age of 35 are a lot less likely to be in a relationship than you are just because men don’t let silly things stop them from dating. Men don’t rationalize the same type of assumptions that women do. Finally, men are more willing to compromise than women.

    In my head, its comparable to how some blacks feel after centuries of slavery and second class citizenship. I feel that women feel similarly and sort of hold that begrudgingly and maybe unknowingly. Statistics or just the simple numbers, men are more likely to be happy than women. Don’t sweat the “small” stuff and you’ll keep #winning, while these uppity “ones” will keep blaming everyone else for their “short”-comings

    Reply ↓

  79. hmmm, I think I just lost some long comments to moderation. What can one say….Ayo technology.

    I was excited…now, I’m disenchanted. Blah.

    To all the dudes under 6 ft, just know that women over the age of 35 are a lot less likely to be in a relationship than you are just because men don’t let silly things stop them from dating. Men don’t rationalize the same type of assumptions that women do. Finally, men are more willing to compromise than women.

    In my head, its comparable to how some blacks feel after centuries of slavery and second class citizenship. I feel that women feel similarly and sort of hold that begrudgingly and maybe unknowingly. Statistics or just the simple numbers, men are more likely to be happy than women. Don’t sweat the “small” stuff and you’ll keep #winning, while these uppity “ones” will keep blaming everyone else for their “short”-comings

    Reply ↓

    • Sage,
      Again, with all due respect, what you are suggesting here is going against something we both know to be true, right? Telling shorter guys to hit these gals up again when they are post-35 ain’t gonna work either. We can debate it all until the cows come home, but that’s just not how the real world works. I feel your pain, but c’mon Brotha, you know better – act like it.

      Women are going to prefer taller Men to shorter Men if they have anything to say about it and the truth is, when it comes to the mating dance, they do. What shorter guys have to do is work harder to display psychosocial dominance, ie, GAME. NO, it’s not fair that the shorter guys of the world have to work harder, but genes care nothing about your views on the state of the world. They only care about being put into the future.

      Get over it, is what I say to guys to whom this state of affairs applies.

      O.

      Reply ↓

      • Do you remember when I kept advising you to not follow TRL around pestering him about game?
        I wasn’t defending him so much as I was(as I said then, doing what you were doing aka trying to protect you from yourself like you were trying to protect TRL from himself) telling you that you may have a very eloquent approach to writing, a keen sense for intelligence and sources but almost no sense for actually knowing when people are merely expressing thoughts or when they are really distraught by circumstance.
        Now, I respect that my west coast mentality & southern gentility mix may not mesh well with your east coast sensibilities but to presume to have me stereotyped is cute to me.
        I’m sure you’ve heard of concept albums, well the way I write is something like that…holistically undefineable

        Reply ↓

      • and I wasn’t telling anybody to wait until women were 35 or to go at women who are 35….
        I was simply reassuring men that they would in fact get in relationships in due time where women would simply “lose all genetic bargaining rights”. You agree with my sentiment but you don’t recognize it behind the austere of my supposed/presumed ignorance. Which to me is funny. Because in your own way, you are talking down to me…I’m not offended.

        Reply ↓

  80. As has been cited, only one in seven men is over the magically wonderful and apparently lubricating height of 6 feet…

    (Before I even get to that, how did that become the magic height? Is that just because it’s a nice round number in our system of measurement? Seriously: 72 inches doesn’t sound so great, but when one says it in feet all of a sudden it’s the rage. If the US used the metric system like the rest of the world, what would it be? Two meters? You know how many people would be stuck then, as that would push the bar up to 6’6 3/4″? Even if one uses 1.8 meters as a “standard”, then the bar is set at roughly 5’11″. Anyway, I thought I’d say a bit about the arbitrary nature of our measuring system and the role it plays in this. Back to the program.)

    …but I don’t think that accounts for the status that taller men enjoy. I may be wrong (but I doubt it) in saying that taller men are more likely to be in relationships than shorter men. If that is true, then the dating pool is even more limited in that area. That said, either one of two things is likely to happen: 1) the woman has to settle for someone who can’t dunk – and if you’re a man over 6′, there’s really no excuse for you not being able to; 2) she’s going to end up sharing him – which I suppose is a bit more likely to happen since he has desirable height. Somehow I don’t think “sharing is caring” applies here. I’m not saying anyone should change their preferences, but just saying that probability works against this preference in particular.

    Me? I’m all of 5’10″. For some reason a lot of men try to perp as 5’10″ but are actually 5’9″ or 5’8″, so that’s why the “all of” part is there. A lot of people say I look like I’m 6′, which I don’t get…but whatever. I live a somewhat strange existence: I’m taller than most of my male friends (as well as males in general) in Tallahassee. I don’t know how, because I’m at least 4 inches shorter than most of my friends (as well as males in general) back home in Lauderdale. It’s like Tallahassee is the place where height comes to die. Oh well: moving on.

    If the average man is 5’9″, I’m ever so slightly on the right side of the mean. I’ve never dated a woman taller than me, but I did go out with a taller woman a few times. She was 5’11″ and had little interest in flats (she wore some the first time we went out, but that was it). I admit to feeling some type of way about it, which is a bit easier since this was around the time when Master P was saying ‘uhh’. It was all me, though: she never did anything to make me feel uncomfortable. We eventually lost touch, but during the time we went out I noticed myself getting used to it and feeling better about things. It wasn’t an issue when we went our separate ways, and wouldn’t have been if we went forward.

    (She did have a requirement, but it had to do with age. Her approval of my argument against her requirement [which I didn't meet] was the reason we started going out).

    That said, I probably wouldn’t approach a taller woman now: not because she’s taller than me, but because I’m shorter than her. Even though the girl mentioned above didn’t hold it against me, I’m not so sure – especially after reading yesterday and today – that her response is modal. Now if something happened and a mutual interest sparked between a taller woman and myself, I’d be fine. Seriously: if someone stopped me in the street and said “you will meet someone tomorrow, and her height will be the biggest problem” I’d have a puzzled look on my face and then ask where I sign.

    We sweat the small stuff a whole lot. I have my preferences and my picture of an ideal woman just like everyone else, but I’ve seen far too many beautiful women of all types to close anyone off. Let Maya Moore (or Candace Parker, if she were single) ring my doorbell and see what happens. I couldn’t ever see myself saying “man, if she were 3 inches shorter she’d be fine as (insert your own ending here)”.

    Sure, it may look nice to have a taller man or a shorter woman for whatever reason. At the end of the day, though; is that really the be all and end all? VSSs: if you knew a VSB would take good care of you, provide when needed, and just be an all-around good guy; would you give that up if his height resembled that of Kevin Hart more than Kevin Durant? VSBs: if you knew that a VSS would treat you well, be a wonderful mother to your (future) children, and plain be the woman of your dreams; would you give that up if she’s 6 inches taller than you rather than 6 inches shorter?

    If the answer to the appropriate question is yes, I’d say the problem isn’t 100% about height.

    Reply ↓

    • ha! Do you just live in Tally or are you at FAM or state? I’m being nosy because those are my old stomping grounds.

      And Tallyho is not the place where height goes to die – it’s the place where employed negroes go to die. If I had a dollar for every aspiring rapper/producer that approached me there…

      Anywho, thanks for admitting that you had an issue with a woman being your height/taller. I’m anywhere from 5’8″ to 6′ depending on if I wear heels, and most men that approach me are between 5’6″ and 5’11″. too many times a guy i’m interested in or dating showed, in some way, that he wasn’t really comfortable with my height. It gets old. Dude, I’m with you, chillax!

      Reply ↓

      • “it’s the place where employed negr0es go to die.”

        You ain’t never lied. I’m trying to tell folks; expectations are regional. Around these parts, a man with two taps of sense and a full-time job that he’s been at more than a year is a keeper.

        Reply ↓

      • I’m in grad school at that second school you mention. My heart will always be with the first (where I got my undergrad and a grad degree from).

        Not sure how long it’s been since you left, but if you left before T-Pain got popular it’s even worse now.

        Looking back, I wouldn’t have been able to easily forgive myself if I didn’t improve during the situation. If we broke it up because of height, I’d have deservedly felt like a fool. I’m glad I was able to learn from it, especially since I was able to without any real consequence.

        Reply ↓

        • I was there before and after the horror that was T-Pain. Needlesss to say I was NOT checking for anybody in that entire city.

          And kudos to you for learning and ish *throws confetti*

          Reply ↓

          • **steps out of lurkerville again**

            YESSSSSSS!! What exactly is going on in Tally??? It’s downright depressing here. . . .

            Reply ↓

    • “For some reason a lot of men try to perp as 5’10? but are actually 5’9? or 5’8?, so that’s why the “all of” part is there. A lot of people say I look like I’m 6?, which I don’t get…but whatever.”

      YOU AIN’T LYIN’!! Dudes who are shorter than I am always, ALWAYS tell me I’m taller than 5’10″ b/c they run around foolishly claiming to be 6ft, & feel the need to call me a liar in hopes that they’ll convince somebody of their foolishness. I guess they think if they can say it, they can BE it – COMEDY!

      Reply ↓

    • The magic number 6’0 is magic because not that many men are above it, and tallness is one of those auto-masculine traits. If everyone was over 6’0 but not 7’0 then we’d be looking for 7’0 men.

      Reply ↓

      • The mention of 7’0″ is exactly what I’m talking about. Why not 6’5″, 6’7″ or 6’11″ (there can’t be that many people between 6’11″ and 7’0″)? I just think a bit of it has to do with the measurement of the height, independent of the height itself.

        Reply ↓

    • “VSBs: if you knew that a VSS would treat you well, be a wonderful mother to your (future) children, and plain be the woman of your dreams; would you give that up if she’s 6 inches taller than you rather than 6 inches shorter?”

      mannnnnn…if she cute? Christian? Caring? Commonsencial?

      i’ll climb that mountain #Everest

      but honestly man, i have given up long ago of even trying to understand women’s preferences…whatever keeps ‘em happy at night, yo…if i’m not on the radar, then so be it. i’m sure (and yes i’ll bring him up) the current President (in his 20s) would NOT be attractive to many a VSS…just like FLOTUS, in her 20s, might not do it for many a VSB.

      Reply ↓

  81. I’m 6’1 and I complain about the lack of qualified tall men and my friend always says we’re all the same height when we’re laying down (she then proceeds with this hand motion to illustrate and emphasize her point). I try to see things from her 5’6 point of view but I just can’t.

    Reply ↓

    • “she then proceeds with this hand motion to illustrate and emphasize her point”

      This just made me crack the hell up because I know this ALL TOO WELL!!

      Reply ↓

    • I try to see things from her 5’6 point of view but I just can’t.

      Someone (on here actually) told me that it was like white privilege (for us shorties)… When you benefit from it, you don’t understand it. I shut up after that. :)

      *off in the 5’4-ness of life*

      Reply ↓

  82. women are whack. If I wasn’t so addicted to that thing that salivates at my impending demise, I wouldn’t even bother. Not really bitter but seriously, things could be so much more simple without all this crap about preference.

    Social programming at its finest. Telling you what to think before you even knew you were listening. Be a effin’ individual and stop actin like you just one day decided to like tall dark men with money. You heard, you saw, you compared and then you considered that if this(whatever) was the standard for attraction then you were worth so much. And I ain’t simply going at women…but right now, women are the topic. Men, have the same issue.

    I may forever be a social pariah for preaching personal responsibility and sounding republican-esque but honestly…this height standard crap, when most african american women aren’t married by the age of 40 and are very unlikely to get married, kind of gets that lil devil on my left shoulder to grinnin’ ear to ear because its foolish-ness at its best. A divisive plot device used to determine that somehow, we work against ourselves on as many levels as can be influenced.

    Remove you damb standards, love unconditionally like you MUTHA EFFERS LOVE TO THROW AT BROTHAS all willy nilly, nut up and allow love to wash over you. I bet Jesus wouldn’t want his Christians to be so shallow as to put a height requirement on his other followers.
    I’m the last one on some religious stuff but seriously? This is way more than played out….I should be a dawg, I should just start runnin through women….and laugh at them, for being simple enough to be played. I wish I had that kind of demon in me(at times like this).
    w/e. I’m too emotional for all that running around reckless, and if I hurt someone, I’d really be effed up. So, you know what…whether I die lonely or happily con familia, I ain’t let me get in the way of myself and thats the only lesson I can take from this conversation. Otherwise, I’m annoyed at women in general but cool. I no longer blame a single brotha for using any woman…cause them women really just used themselves just likes tools.

    (rant over)

    Reply ↓

    • I think women in general are far more likely to look past physical “imperfections” than men are. The chances of you seeing a good looking woman (whatever that may mean) with a not so good looking man (again, that definition is relative) are greater than seeing the inverse of that. Women seem to be getting a bad rap here when in actuality, men are the ones with unwavering standards.

      You mentioned socialization and being sold a dream before you even realize it, I most certainly can’t argue with you there. I like to call that Cinderella Syndrome. From the day us girls come through that birthing canal, we are told stories of how the princess waits for her prince and blah blah blah. So yes, we wait for the dream that has been pushed upon us for years to actualize. For some people, that fairytale becomes reality and for some it doesn’t. My hope is that women don’t just settle for a man simply because his meets the anatomical criteria.

      I think people fail to acknowledge the basic element of attraction. If a certain person is attracted to a certain thing, then hey go for it!! Attraction is more often than not the first step to happily ever after…

      Reply ↓

      • Siding with Liz on this one, man. I don’t know if you meant for your comment to sound bitter, but it does. I was there once (as probably everyone has been), so I’d like to think I have a decent handle on what it looks like.

        If people have preferences and you don’t fit them, so what? Look at yesterday’s commentary: between all the things the VSSs listed, there are maybe two VSBs that wouldn’t fall into any of those categories. There are two ways to look at that: 1) we’re pretty much stuck, or 2) there’s someone for everyone because their sets of categories were different. Sure, there was some overlap – but honestly, most of those things should have had overlap.

        Sure, it’s nice to be desired by lots of women. In the end, though; we only need one – and it’s that one whom we should focus on rather than people who may not want us for whatever reason. I’ve been the one that was “settled for”. It’s not fun. If you focus on who you will be with instead of who you won’t, you’ll find the going much easier.

        Reply ↓

      • “You hate women”- Your stock answer for any man using logic and trying to defend himself and other men.

        Reply ↓

        • Um, he started his comment with “women are whack” and was serious about that sh!t. Let’s be real here.

          Reply ↓

        • *sigh* whatever dude. It’s a stock answer for any dude who comes out his mouth and says he doesn’t like women. Nothing more nothing less. If said dude likes to think him hating on women is his way of defending himself, then he’s obviously a poor fighter. These two things aren’t mutually exclusive. Read his first sentence over again. He thinks women are wack. But since he has lustly desires for women he puts up with us. A lot of men who hate women are like this. Sage may not have really meant it that way, but I am gonna pull anyone’s card when they get along those lines, whether they mean it or not.

          YOU seem hellbent on identifying my stock answers for statements that apply to you tho. Guilty much?

          Reply ↓

          • Watch this.
            You say a word.
            You go back on that word.
            I feel a certain kind of way about it.

            I say a word.
            I go back on it.
            You feel a certain kind of way about it.

            Difference? Not really. But you surely do make one.

            Bottom line? Its that making judgment calls is an easy thing to do but the hardest thing to do is to realize the very reason me make those judgment calls was based on something we only realized through introspection. And by that, you don’t hate that I actually said that but that it reflects something about you that you don’t like.

            I know that what I offer is easy to dismiss. I know the way I approach is almost a complete turn off. Just because what I’m saying doesn’t sound proper or even applicable doesn’t make my weird perspective having, hard to understand or relate self any less right than you are, unless we are purely speaking in opinions.

            Reply ↓

            • Once again, you’re reading and writing too much into it.

              You opened your comment with how wack women are. You consistently talk about what you don’t like about women (even your woman) but then state how you have to put up with us nonetheless. So, yeah I am gonna keep saying something about it when I see a trend. It’s not that I don’t wanna see whatever real life truths you think you are dropping in the comment section of a tongue and cheek blog. it’s that you really do sound conflicted about loving women. nothing more, nothing less. i don’t know why you seem this way, but you do.

              and sure you are entitled to feel this way due to whatever experience you have had in life. but realize my experiences also call a woman hating spade a spade. furtherlymore, this blog right here prides itself in calling women (and everybody in general, cuz we are equal opportunity like that) out on their bullsh*t without having to denigrate said people in the process. you and dudes like you (see:bhillboy5647) make it too easy to throw a flag on the play is all.

              Reply ↓

              • OOooooOOOooooh, I’m pretty sure the only thing I’ve ever mentioned about my current woman is that she is a delta and that she has me reading this blog. She is actually perfect to me, my reflection. Kind of why I go hard on the women on here. Because from the moment we clicked, there hasn’t been much in the way that we didn’t get through. It hasn’t been that long but if I was as hateful as I appeared to be…the woman that is with me must be that great. Ha!

                I do make it easy.I know that. Thats why I respond.

                Because I’m really inconsequential in this equation. The messenger is only necessary to deliver the message but NOT what you can derive from it. If you take nothing from it, its because you don’t see any value in it.

                Reply ↓

    • @Sage of Silence

      So is it safe to assume that you have NO physical preferences when it comes to women you’re attracted to??

      Reply ↓

      • point is, while all these women here will say that they “lower” their standards or find a way to get with a man, these women here, Black women WITH A DEGREE are more likely to end up alone and bitter.

        You think I sound bitter? Even though I say, “I wish I had the gall to mistreat women”? Sounds like your empathic nature needs a tuning. Something for the face value of words and then there is actually reading the intent behind them. W/e, that isn’t this discussion.

        Point being, if you think I’m just blowing hot air, thats fine, what do I really care after its all said and done? I’m guaranteed to end up with a woman. I’m not even partially concerned about me. I could be a diva dude to the maximum and I will still come out with the ability to grab basically any unoccupied woman and fabricate some sense of happiness. But women, you may have attention in youth but the younger these replacement girls get, the harder time you’ll have snagging a man worth his weight in water(and that stuffs nearly free).

        I despise fear based pandering but reality check, this World was built to run on the tears and dreams of women. It makes me sad, I see women jaded from the years, blaming it all on a man. So get that money, get that accomplishment, raise them children alone…you don’t need a man, right? You can do bad all by yourselves.

        Reply ↓

        • @Sage of Silence

          Wow….you are a ticking time bomb! Sage………Relax. My empathic nature is fine. Your swift assumption-making needs the tune-up because my question was actually a sincere one. Given some of your previous posts, you have a unique outlook on things and I was curious to see…….. (nevermind….whatever) smh

          Reply ↓

          • actually, the empathic thing was at B.Brown. For saying I sounded bitter.

            Nice assumption in saying I made one. It makes me like you more. Seriously.

            That happens a lot….I don’t make assumptions. I follow the bread crumbs. Empirical.

            I like how you think I’m a tickin time bomb and if you are a qualified physician, I will gladly consider undergoing observation…but considering that I’m really not that kind of “repressed rage” kind of person, I think I’ll be fine.

            now, I don’t think my perspective is uncommon at all, but the magnet I held to my head trying to gain super powers may have scrambled the way I produce my perspective.

            I’m not saying anything crazy….you all just aren’t reading it like I intended for it to be read(read: without emotion).

            To me this isn’t personal, I express thoughts in an a weird way apparently. It takes a considerable amount of energy to follow my thoughts…inside its even worse.

            I don’t dream, I just think with my eyes closed. Ha!

            Reply ↓

            • @Sage

              : ) If your response was meant for B. Brown, but placed in the wrong section (under my question) and I commented on it (thinking it was for me)……wouldn’t that make your commentary on my response unnecessary?

              Reply ↓

            • I’ve been told more than once that I don’t have an empathic nature, so there isn’t much (if anything) to tune.

              That said, I believe that I said you sounded bitter: not that you are bitter. There’s a difference. There seems to be co-signage with my statement, but like you said “that isn’t this discussion”.

              If I say you sound bitter – or if anyone says anyone else sounds anything – there are two words that I thought were plainly understood but obviously aren’t in this case: “to me”. Wait: I didn’t even say you sounded bitter. I said your comment sounded bitter. I’ve seen you write many a non-bitter-sounding comment on here and generally have enjoyed what you’ve had to say.

              I think the most interesting thing – not good or bad – is that your reply was written because I put too much into face value and this was written because you put too little into it.

              Reply ↓

              • I like that. I actually have to think about what you just shared with me.

                I really do appreciate it. And I’ll be the first to say, yup, you right. I stepped too deep in that one.

                It is a bit automatic sometimes. Not an excuse, an explanation.

                Good lookin’ out.

                Reply ↓

        • CNotes, see how your question was completely avoided?

          Sage, if you have any physical preferences whatsoever, then you are guilty of the same sh!t you’re so mad about right now. Calm down, it’s really not that serious. Tall men are just preferred. Such is life. Like other women have said, we make exceptions to our own “rules” ALL the damn time, so there is no need to trip. It looks like you’re bringing in a whole bunch of extra feelings and history and stuff into this, and honestly all the whining is just unattractive.

          Reply ↓

          • @Around the Way Girl

            Its cool. Obviously it was more important for him to pretend to know what I was thinking and become defensive as a result. *shrugs*

            Reply ↓

          • @ around the way girl

            1st.
            I’m not in the least, concerned with appearing attractive to you. Or any other woman. If I was single today, I could go anywhere, literally.

            2nd
            I didn’t answer the question because it is irrelevant (btw, no I don’t have a single physical characteristic that I prefer but thats because I found personality traits that produce the physical effect I desire and I focused on those-long term)

            3rd
            you may simply think I’m jaded by my horrible history with women but I don’t make women out to be the bad guy, I just say what I see (believe half of what you see and none of what you hear). Additionally, I have a very tender history with women and all of my relationships ended without so much as an argument and the distance between us(read: Foreign countries) being what split us.

            4th
            my point is, why restrict yourself to rules if you are only going to A) violate said rule and B) allow said rule to be an obstacle that you only violate based around your feelings of lack. I see it often. One week, woman rejects decent nerd, two months later same woman strung out over druggy boyfriend. If thats the life she wanted, she wouldn’t have went to school to get it. A road to nowhere.

            Finally. I like how you presume to know what I’m like just from what I type. You literally are going 100 at my personality when I’m merely speaking @ the words you all present. I haven’t made one assumption BUT I have tied in personal accounts of misery to help improve my ability to ask the questions that I did. If you don’t like me for it….I still love you. (in the God sense)

            Side note:
            I will admit, when people say anger/mad/bitter, I get confused. I don’t see how they come to those conclusions. Expression isn’t limited to positivity and if found outside of positivity, expression isn’t limited to those simple emotions. Its however you want to see it (your perception is your reality) but between trying to learn and absorb some HONEST TO GOODNESS PERSPECTIVES from you women, I try to share as to not just be duplicitous in my approach but reciprocative even if underhandedly so.

            Reply ↓

            • 1st: Sweetheart, it is not. That. Serious. I don’t think I went 100 at your personality at all, I was just blunt. You were whining, and it was unattractive, period. (I was not talking about your appearance, either, so that whole “I don’t care about appearing attractive to you” remark was unnecessary. And overkill, I might add…who are you trying to convince?) I wasn’t mad, and I don’t dislike you. I even don’t know you. When I close my browser I will go on with the rest of my day and everything will be fine and dandy…hopefully you will do the same. Breathe and relax, hun, it’ll do you some good.

              2nd: The question was irrelevant? Really? Oh okay. And this: “I found personality traits that produce the physical effect I desire and I focused on those-long term”…I don’t even have a response to. I’ll take your word for that one.
              o_0

              3rd: Okay. Good to know.

              4th: “why restrict yourself to rules if you are only going to A) violate said rule and B) allow said rule to be an obstacle that you only violate based around your feelings of lack.”
              Personally, I don’t restrict myself to a lot of rules. A lot of women do have lists of qualifications for their ideal mates, though, which they are entitled to have by the way. They don’t PLAN on violating those rules; sometimes, a guy comes along that makes them re-evaluate because he’s just that special/interesting/good in bed/whatever. This brings me to the next point- it usually has nothing to do with “feelings of lack,” but thanks for playing. Most women aren’t these sad, desperate creatures running around looking for a man to give them a reason for living. If you disagree with that, you either don’t know as much about women as you think you do or you need to get out more.

              As for this: “I try to share as to not just be duplicitous in my approach but reciprocative even if underhandedly so,” A) what is underhandedly reciprocative, and B) Go ahead and share whatever you want to share, however you want to share it. Just be ready for people to do the same. I realize that I could have worded my initial response a little more nicely, but I tend not to sugarcoat. And you were getting on my nerves with all your woman bashing. In the future, if we cross e-paths again, I will try to be more sensitive. Truce?

              Reply ↓

                • Lol for the sake of it, truce? No need to patronize, bruh, I don’t need any favors. I was just saying no hard feelings. Whether you still feel some kind of way or not, it’s all the same to me. I hope you have a very nice day. :)

                  Reply ↓

                  • I was not patronizing you and quite frankly I’m surprised you took it that way.

                    Have you not seen me leaving all these comments where I inefficiently express my thoughts fairly directly?

                    Your words, I read, I sat and thought about them, I searched throughout my conscious thought. I came back and shared how I felt. There was no need for a truce because I held no ill-will at all towards you.
                    As far as I’m concerned, everybody on this site will always be on the same terms with me as they were before they met me.

                    You choose to believe what you want BUT while you are busy thinking that I’m projecting or over-compensating, if I were you, I’d be more concerned about myself.

                    Straight up, much love, not a single bad thought of anyone here, ever and as always I wish you all the best.

                    Do you boo boo. :-)

                    Reply ↓

  83. I used to have a very detailed list of things I was looking for in a man’s appearance – didn’t stop me from dating men who didn’t meet most of those items. Why? because attractiveness and chemistry is just not about how you look. I’m a sucker for intellect, kindness, and a sense of humor that meshes with mine. Basically, if I was in New York, I’d probably end up with a shorter cute Jewish guy.

    And Champ, getouttahere w/ trying to justify colorstruckness. Yes, people have a set point that may or may not be innate, but sippers of the kyriarchal kool aid get no love from me. Especially because you have no idea how many times a BM will volunteer his colorstruckness, and then get reeeaaalll pissed when I agree with him by saying “you’re right! Light skin is definitely more attractive! I like good hair too! Oh, i totally agree that puerto ricans/latinos/mixed/white people are the best, hands down. Please excuse me while I find someone who fits that.”

    Reply ↓

    • You’re right, colorstruckness is absolutely nothing like height preference.

      You see, there are actually many men who prefer dark-skinned women (or, while they may prefer light-skinned women, won’t dismiss a Gabrielle Union or Bria Miles), whereas there are maybe three women on earth who prefer and actively check for “short” men, let alone men who are shorter than themselves.

      Reply ↓

      • I think women just don’t admit to the height requirement being flexible. When I got to college I said I was only dating dudes 6’3″ and above. Average height of college boyfriends: 5’10.5″

        I always pictured that I’d marry a super tall guy. Height of guy that I got closest to that goal with: 5’6″

        And, most of the girls that I knew talking a bunch of noise about height really didn’t stick to it if they liked a dude. Only the ones who are single trip over that, the rest of them fell in love/like/lust and kept it moving.

        Reply ↓

        • Yeah, it’s a nice to have thing. I’m flexible. if a woman is citing your shortness as a problem she prolly has issues with something else about you (broccoli breath, bad dresser, u g l y you aint got no alibi, weird).

          speaking of which. Champ I don’t appreciate you calling us women hypocrites. this height discrimination is some sort of scapegoat for something else (more shallowness or our own issues) but NOT some sort of hypocrisy in action. Somebody is choppin down all these short men somewhere (not me, cuz you know, I’m celibate).

          Reply ↓

          • “speaking of which. Champ I don’t appreciate you calling us women hypocrites. this height discrimination is some sort of scapegoat for something else (more shallowness or our own issues) but NOT some sort of hypocrisy in action”

            lol, i dont care what you dont appreciate.

            Reply ↓

        • But I’m still not so sure that this addresses my point.

          At the end of the day, there are plenty of men who ex ante prefer dark-skinned women. They aren’t being flexible by dating dark-skinned women, they affirmatively check for and seek out dark-skinned women. They’re not thinking, “she’s cute to be dark,” but “the blacker the berry…”

          Only an infinitesimal number of women prefer shorter men over taller men ex ante, even if quite a few ex post find a match who doesn’t meet their initial requirements.

          Reply ↓

      • the average woman is 5’4 (according to the size charts on the online shopping sites)- all these women are not dismissing short guys.

        Reply ↓

    • “And Champ, getouttahere w/ trying to justify colorstruckness. Yes, people have a set point that may or may not be innate, but sippers of the kyriarchal kool aid get no love from me”

      i’m not trying to justify anything. just saying that colorstruckness and heightstruckness are basically the same thing. both lemons from the same lemon tree and sh*t

      Reply ↓

      • @The Champ – I disagree with the colour/height issue being interchangeable. I thought with the history of slavery and its aftermath in the US that skin colour was a serious issue; the whole passing for white phenomenon and what it stood for comes to mind.

        Reply ↓

        • I like where you took that. I hadn’t even really thought about it.

          I will say, I don’t know if the Champ meant it that deep, and I will say I don’t think the application is that deep.

          I will say that I agree that there is almost no way of separating the color preference from the underlying stigmas in our post-slavery society. Especially, when the hierarchy is greatly unaltered. (read: 400 richest US citizens are richer than the bottom 50% of US citizens.)

          http://www.good.is/post/the-400-richest-americans-are-now-richer-than-the-bottom-50-percent-combined/

          How, can that be separated? Ignoring it?

          Reply ↓

          • @Sage jr – I read Champ’s response as being offhand. I was just bringing in another layer to the whole colour issue per the great conversations I’ve had with folks offline. I think the stigma of colour is best addressed by actively discussing it amongst ourselves and making the conscious decision when we speak to *know* the gravity of our words. It’s a hard thing to do consistently though, so baby steps.

            And the whole class warfare (destruction of the middle class) is *real*. Not being able to have the same lifestyle or better than your folks? smdh. I suppose the American Dream is dead for real – or at least, needs a *massive* reexamination.

            Reply ↓

            • You are a completely reasonable person aren’t you?

              Who is your favorite death God….I think this will tell me more about you than anything else.

              Reply ↓

              • @Sage Jr – completely reasonable? Maybe ^_^ As for my favourite Shingami? That is a tough question since the shinigami offer so many different aspects of the best and worst of human nature (steps away slowly from Mayuri). I would have to pick Urahara Kisuke – he’s got a great sense of humour, is super smart, and laced with a backbone of *seriousness* that I enjoy reading and watching. Plus, in my mind, he’s married to the baddest chick thus far in Bleach,Yoruichi! Who is your favourite?

                Reply ↓

                • As if Mayuri is fundamentally any different than Kisuke, he is only a bit more ruthless and a bit stunted in comparison of greatness.

                  Excellent pick. I had you more as Komamura or even Ukitake. I based this on your focus to neutrality as in comparison to the other possible main variances. Kisuke and Mayuri both have that same conflict but its not nearly as strong within them. Meaning that to you, it was more of a fleeting thought than I gave it credit for. Which is only a bit less fascinating.

                  I would Love to say I’m an Aizen type but I’m more Gin than anything. I’ve got that stench of falling just short of unbelievable all over me. Not quite twisted genius, just a twisted determination and dedication to a personal sense of right through all wrong even when a massive underdog.

                  Reply ↓

                  • @Sage Jr – for me, Mayuri is just so focused on discovery and taking things apart that the world around him could burn down and he wouldn’t care as long as it didn’t interfere with his work. Mayuri would have been happy never being a captain ’cause it takes time away from his experiments. Urahara seems way more well-rounded and it’s clear that he’s engaged in *everything* going on around him, and actually cares just a tad.

                    I love me me some Ukitake, but I can’t picture him without Shunsui >___> Don’t know many people who can live like that.

                    And I started off being iffy about Gin but his soft spot for Rangiku was what got me on his side. Based on your written comments that I’ve read thus far, I can see why Gin is a good fit. I can see that you are trying to reach for *something* but as some like to say it’s the journey, not the destination that matters right?

                    (wow, just turned this into a full on Bleach conversation!)

                    Reply ↓

                    • * edit – my 2nd paragraph got truncated >_< I was trying to say that Aizen likes to watch the world burn and has that whole "I don't give a (blank)" attitude. I don't know many people who can live like that. Or rather, I don't call folks like that my friends.

                    • For the win @ Bleach convo

                      Yeah, I would much rather not be Gin.

                      But the introspective implications are what makes even this somewhat conceptual conversation applicable to the topic at hand even if only at a reach of logic.

                      Yeah, (that Ukitake & Shunsui combo confuses me)

                      Gin fits perfectly.

  84. Forgot to post this with my last comment:

    I used to think that I’d be single forever because only [well, mostly] short (as in < 5'6") men used to approach me. But, I find now that it's much harder to find a man who's single, educated, employed, kind, good character, and COMPATIBLE with me even without height restrictions. Le sigh.

    Reply ↓

  85. I’m going to admit upfront that I’m short. Yes I’m 4’7″ and proud of it. Even though I’m short I agree with the women on the height issue. Women are entitled to their preferences. Us short dudes have to get in where we fit in. If I was a 5’6″ or taller woman I wouldn’t want a shorter man if I was wearing heels or not wearing heels. Women are entitled to not prefer elves or dwarves. Just like me being a man I prefer women with a flat stomach or a little pouch with a small waist, wide hips, @ss, and bitties. Preferably all 3. Not wide hips flat @ss, bitties with no @ss or hips, or mosquito bites up top. I prefer women built like women not little boys or girls. So I’m on the side of the women on this issue. Height for women = @ss to waist ratio, donks, and tata’s for men.

    That being said I do have a few questions

    1. If I understand correctly women feel http://bit.ly/gx8oOK and http://bit.ly/e5ThDi make them more secure and safe than http://bit.ly/fGX5fs because they are over 6ft?

    2. If women need a tall guy for when they wear heels do women have the ability to grow a bigger @ss and bitties just when they have chex?

    Reply ↓

  86. I’d love to stay and chop it up with you folks.. but seeing as how it took me 15-20 minutes to read comments, Now, I’m late…….

    *Sigh*
    This job is ruining my life…..

    I don’t care about the height.. I have preferences, it’s not a hard and fast rule.. And tall men are just easier to see, short men might have to jump up and down to get the attention.. BUT for someone in my current dating state, if he charms me, he charms me… I hardly wear heels anyway, so that’s not a factor.. and yes, I’ve dated 2 short men, almost married one, the other was my first love.. I mean, we literally see Eye-to-eye, short men.. Other than the Napoleonic complexes, (it’s real, people!)
    there wasn’t really a problem there… but that’s just me
    I can’t be mad at those that have issue with it.. i do think you should step back and figure out if those issues come from a logical place.. “If we get married, i don’t want my baby to be able to life his stepdad” is not a logical issue…..
    Peace and Love
    *tiptoes back out*

    Reply ↓

    • S/O to all my VSSs who hardly wear heels! I thought we didn’t exist. :) Heels hurt my pretty feet and I lack that natural “arch” or whatever it’s called….no heels for me…I’m perfectly fine and feminine in my flats.

      Reply ↓

  87. I’m one of the tall ladies – 5’10″. All of my serious relationships have been w/ dudes SHORTER than I am (by 1 inch or more). My longest relationship must have been 5’7″ – to this day dude STILL won’t tell me his exact height b/c he’s embarrassed, LOLOL! (fool, we did double digit years together – it obviously doesn’t matter!!). I don’t have much of a requirement, but 5’7″ is the shortest I’ll ever go (& don’t really wanna revisit it).

    I would LOVE to date/mate/marry a guy taller than I am. Doesn’t have to be by much, but a few inches would be nice so we don’t have the “heels” situation (& yes, I rocked heels on occassion w/ 5’7″ dude). My ideal man – KG, just SOOOO LOOOOONG! I wanna bite him… & hump his knee cap… but back to the topic…

    Tall dudes love the sh*t outta short women, so tall women get left in the dust – it sucks. I guess I understand the whole “not wanting amazon chillen” thing, but still – I won’t be dating a shortshort man trying to achieve that goal, lol!

    I’ve learned my lesson over the years – don’t even talk to a guy in a small sportscar. Tall men don’t roll like that. Met a dude on the street once (dumb & in my 20′s) – we both pulled over, he was in the tiny sportscar. That fool got out & probably didn’t clear 5′ – he had no problem w/ the height difference. I, on the other hand, made my escape & never saw dude again. It was just too much. But I get my share of dudes who let me know I’m too tall & therefore undateable to them, so it all comes back around.

    Reply ↓

    • “Tall dudes love the sh*t outta short women”

      I think “love the sh*t outta” is an overstatement. When a tall chick comes in looking like a stallion, all us shorties have to stand down LOL.

      Reply ↓

    • “I’ve learned my lesson over the years – don’t even talk to a guy in a small sportscar. Tall men don’t roll like that.”

      i have an exception to this…my high school math teacher..very cool 2520…had a porche…that i’m quite sure i (in high school) couldn’t fit in….

      he was 6’6, possibly taller, no lie. to this day i always wonder how he folded into the car…lol

      Reply ↓

      • I hear you… & he must have wanted a Porche reeeeeeal baaaaad to fold himself in that mutha every day – maybe dude had other problems, lol!

        Reply ↓

  89. i can’t even defend us. i’ve heard a million girls say: “he’s so cute, but he’s too short”. lol – it is completely unfair but we have some sort of disorder that makes us think tall is hot (or hotter)

    Reply ↓

    • I’ve actually been told those exact words to my face….by a woman shorter than me. Complete confusion on my part.

      Reply ↓

    • I think shorter men are smarter. This comes from my experience at MIT where there were no tall men. I think short men are smarter because they spend time readin books and doing other sh*t to build character and compensate for their height rather than rely on their tall ways to get them through life. Just my freehand scientific conclusions though.

      Reply ↓

      • @Liz
        I’ve heard, and it seems true from the guys I met, that most of the investment bankers who work at GoldmanSachs are all way above average height. Real intimidation factor dealing with those guys.

        Reply ↓

          • Mr. E is correct. There have been numerous studies done on the very real discrimination shorter Men face all throughout life; UPenn here in Philly has conducted such studies as well. It has been documented that taller Men make more money than do shorter Men and so forth – this is where that whole thing with GoldmanSachs comes into the picture. Yes, its true, companies like that hire guys as much for their “presence” as they do for their smarts and actual abilities and accomplishments…sometimes a bit more for the former than the latter, as their actual “value added/creation” positions, guys in IT and the like, are the shorter guys working in the back out of plain sight, while the “face” or “frontmen” get all the prime time.

            But as Liz rightly noted, here’s how a shorter Man can overcome/compensate for such blatant and flagrant bigotry:

            Be the best that ever did it. You work harder and longer than the competition, you are the undisputed Master of your field, you are constantly studying and refining your craft and honing your skills. In the business world, sure, you can get a foot in the door with the right look, but sooner or later, it all comes down the bottom line – and numbers don’t lie. This is what I learned over the years, and learned to work that to my advantage. And it has served me well.

            O.

            PS: Without a doubt, Women do ruthlessly discriminate against guys for all kinds of reasons, most commonly for the height thing, and it is socially accepted for them to do so, I believe due to Evolutionary reasons. Eggs expensive, sperm cheap, Women invaluable because they have wombs, something we cannot replace (at least not yet) while Men are expendable. This is the most parsimonious explanation as to why things are the why they are, and I for one intend to cling to this view until countervailing evidence points incontrovertibly to the contrary.

            Reply ↓

  92. The shortest guy I know turned out to be the biggest earner I know. I tried introducing him to a short girlfriend and she complained about him being “too short”. Idiot woman, they were both Jewish, from the same elite university, actively looking to get married and he was super funny and clearing over 300K per year and that was back in the 90′s. He has long since retired (in his early 30′s) and is living a very good life but still searching for a woman willing to marry his short self. SMH. Someone please explain this to me.

    Reply ↓

  93. “Admittedly, it’s true that you can’t fabricate physical attraction” Champ, I guess you dont know any plastic surgeons. It’s their job to fabricate physical attraction.

    Reply ↓

  94. I’m 5’5 (with brown eyes…smile like the sunrise)… Long story made short (pun intended) I’ve never had a preference as far as height is concerned (as someone mentioned earlier-a$$hOles come in all sizes, shapes and colors) but it does get discouraging to repeatedly hear men who prefer women with fat @$$es :( especially since I live in the “souf” where it’s like required and considered a deadly sin if you’re on the flat side . Oh well…you win some, you lose some……

    Reply ↓

  95. Much like Brooklyn, Woody Allen en route to Disney Land China, or …A.M., Champ goes hard on the estrogen bearers in this post. Maybe he was on to something when he said that P would always be seen as the arsonist no matter what he said.

    Anyway, ladies, men really don’t believe that you REALLY only go for men over 6 feet, I mean polygamy would have to be mandated just to keep the population afloat. But your vocal insistence upon it kind of strikes a chord with men because we tend to take you at your word. And then pair that with the complaining about a lack of available men and you have basis of logic and then you have fodder for estrogen and logic jokes for days.

    Just some perspective on why men find it slightly annoying even if they are close to six feet. Statically, a man being over 6 feet is the rough equivalent of a woman having a D cup. If men went around talking about being tired of all these little tittied C cups always trying to get on, and that having a D cup was the minimum to even be considered for the dating pool there would be bedlam.

    Side Rant: Add on some of the other basic constraints (education, income (less than 5% of Americans make over 6 figures, I’m sure it’s closer to 1% for black males), other aesthetics, age, social competency) women talk about and you can easily see why men say that women all chase the same dudes. If we listen to what you you’re telling us, what you want is literally less than .01% of the population.

    Reply ↓

    • True.

      I think for a lot of women the height thing is a Nice To Have. It is for me, at least. I have been relaxing on the height requirement though.

      As for the bra cup sizes, I think if the analogy were to be correct (it’s not, because men don’t have cup sizes to scrutinize) it would be men complaining about A cups, and always wanting D cups. The folks in the middle are generally not as fcucked.

      Reply ↓

      • You’re right, I used the extreme for dramatic effect and to emphasize what a hard cutoff at 6feet really means from a statistical standpoint that all women can relate to.

        Reply ↓

        • I’m also right under the arbitrary 6 foot height requirement (5’11) and have been called short by women so it might not be as extreme as it sounds.

          Reply ↓

            • hahaha… i think you’re absolutely right SoS

              MM just tell the shorty do wops that you are 6ft and a half inches… what the hell does she know anyway.. her forehead is under your chin…

              Reply ↓

          • That’s so insane to me. I don’t think anyone 5’7″ & over (regardless of gender) should be called “short”, its just dumb!

            Reply ↓

    • “If we listen to what you you’re telling us, what you want is literally less than .01% of the population.”

      I know most black women are wise enough to know this. I don’t believe the “wish list” is something the average woman is holding out for. I’ve seen many a bum stay winning with plenty chicks. The ‘good guys’ just need to make themselves known.

      Reply ↓

      • Yeah, I don’t really think that this is what most black women are gunning for. But you know how men listen to and take women at their word when they say that all they want is a sensitive man who wont cheat and is nice to them and take it to heart (and then get mad when they pander, er cater to those needs and end up in the friend zone and complain about it on this very site)? Men do the same thing when women vocalize their wish lists as check lists (also on this very site). So I’m not saying that women don’t know this, just that men listen to what they hear from women and form their opinions accordingly. Just trying to give a little perspective for why the height requirement gets under our skin, even if the requirement isn’t practiced as much as it’s preached.

        Reply ↓

        • “just that men listen to what they hear from women and form their opinions accordingly”

          Completely agree with you Meech.

          “even if the requirement isn’t practiced as much as it’s preached”

          You don’t think this is equally practiced??

          Reply ↓

          • Na. A lot of women talk about what they will and wont do and who they will and wont date in absolute terms, I don’t know why. But if you watch them long enough you see they deviate from that, usually more often than not. It’s easy to identify height as what you want in a mate, but there other things that are less quantifiable but 10 times more important to what you need in a relationship. If a woman deviates, it’s probably because she didn’t actually know and or couldn’t easily describe what she wanted from a relationship. Kind of like what we all think is important in a job before we actually start working at that job.

            Reply ↓

            • is it bad, that this sounded like you were talking about sexual things to me, especially the first couple of sentences?

              Other than that true words.

              Reply ↓

  96. I haven’t read the comments, so forgive anything that’s already been said.

    I’m not a midget, so I think I’m justified in my height preference because its just that, a preference, not an unconditional requirement. However, I’ve never dated a man shorter than 5’10, and I’ve never dated a man shorter than me for 2 simple reasons:
    1. I don’t want to.
    2. I don’t have to.

    The one thing I do take issue with is short woman telling me I’m wrong for my preference, and shouldn’t count out someone my height. Well, your little midget isn’t dating someone your height, so why should I. And short men, go snatch up one of these short women. You have to be *THIS* high to ride this ride. Thx, Management.

    Reply ↓

    • “And short men, go snatch up one of these short women. You have to be *THIS* high to ride this ride. Thx, Management”

      Love it. :)

      Reply ↓

  97. Do you think women are justified in feeling this way, or is the hypocrisy making you gag?

    Sorry to say, but I believe this is much ado about nothing. No and I don’t believe “most” women feel this way. This is some sh*t young chicks say. “What am I gonna do when I wear heels?” Like how many places do you go with your SO where you wear heels AND stand for periods of time significant enough for others to notice and develop opinions about your escort’s height? I’ll wait.
    (And the club doesn’t count because when you’re doing it right you should be getting low anyway.)

    Y’all love to say that majority of women are chasing after the same 15% of men, but I refuse to believe that roughly 85% of single men ain’t getting any play. When a woman’s “DenzElba” comes at her smelling good and talking right, she’s not gonna be thinking about his height. I’m 5 feet, the love of my life is about 5’5.

    I will also add that, usually, men do the approaching so the manifestation of this issue is also perpetuated by men. Like we mentioned yesterday, many of us short women have been sought out by tall men. I wonder what the reverse opinion is- how many men are wary of having a woman that is very clost to their height or taller?

    Reply ↓

    • A lot, and the physicality of the matter plays into this a great deal. Think about “looking up” to something/someone. That action usually evokes feelings of respect, awe, appreciation, etc. Conversely, when you “look down” on something you despise it, or consider it inferior to something else.

      No man wants his woman to look down on him, and my guess would be the physical act would suggest the presence of the normally attached emotion.

      That’s why the height matters in my estimation, and it precisely why I can’t be mad at a woman for wanting a taller man.

      Reply ↓

      • that’s what I was imagining. maybe giving short guys a chance isn’t as easy for tall chicks as some think it is.

        Reply ↓

        • that’s it exactly WIP

          looking down at your man is hard! women that are short and telling me that i should give short guys a chance have no idea what it feels like to be tall and big… i’ve never dated a guy shorter than 5’10″ and to be honest i don’t think i ever will… now maybe some 5’8″ will sneak in.. but 5’5″ and below? nope i won’t

          Reply ↓

  98. I’m still looking for the short women who “prefer” tall men. They keep being mentioned, but it doesn’t seem to be true. We (short women) usually have no height preference, because if you’re 5’3″ and below, EVERYONE is “tall”. After reading these comments, it seems like we aren’t the ones discriminating, but the ones getting blamed for it.

    Btw, @Classy6ft5, is “Amazonian Midget” a better handle? My friend called me this after I told him that I am 2 inches 2 tall to legally be a midget. I kinda like it, what say ye? lol

    Reply ↓

  99. €$£¥, more often than much, trumps all of womens requirements, social programming, preferences, rationalizations, expectations & superficial hypocritical attractions when it comes to dating. & not one second sooner than they have to or it’s too late, do most women figure better & let these entitlements go in an effort to try and have the coveted “matrimony” or pairing they think they deserve. By then, tall, baby armed lip models have sprinted thru their kunt kakes & they’ve chugged enough knutt to choke a kidney. & now they have to try & sell the best prune they can instead of a plum. Good luck. & so the immorality of this story is & if you take nothing else away from this, know that true relationship dating dynamic IS, men are buying and women are selling. All the other bollix is just “image control.”

    Reply ↓

  100. “Yeah, I know that was funny, but imagine if this was said about, I don’t know, “big” women.”

    LOL

    Ya’ll DON’T say ish like this out loud? Ok.

    o_____________O

    Reply ↓

  101. As a person who is somewhere between 5’4 and 5’5, realistically, I like my guys at a “minimum” 5’8, because I loooooove to wear pretty high heels.

    However, I definitely wouldn’t mind having a taller man, just to give my sons some hope in the height department. It’s the whole best selection thing. I have short guy cousins (my height) and once heard, “he’s cute… but ummmm… kinda… altitudinally challenged… ” lol

    Conversely, I have a female cousin who is 5’11 and still wears stacked heels and isn’t terribly particular about height.

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  102. Can we to Toto for a minute and go behind the curtin for a minute. Height is just one factor on the list of compatibility. Being tall with a fcked up personality might keep you lonely longer than you think. Don’t blame the shortie because she has a pleasent one. I have found out that it is easy to say what you will and won’t do when you have choices. When you remove your choices, human behavior goes into survival mode and you do what you gotta do.

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  103. Okay, I’m going to make the leap and ease out of lurkerdom today. *party over here woot woot*

    I’m short…very short…I stand about 5’0 1/2″ (so?). I’ve never been a I need a tall, dark and handsome kind of girl. I like big guys with broad chests and big arms. My hubby is 5’7-5’8 (I think) and built like a line backer, with a bald head and tattoos and…*swoon* LOVE HIM…I didn’t even notice how tall he wasn’t until he mentioned it. I have the napolean complex in our relationship…I wear extremely high heels to compensate for my lack of height. Do not judge me, I am not ashamed.

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    • *VSB GLITTER* Welcome!

      Way to be a short chick taking a short(ish) man. We (tall chicks on the market) need more of you doing The Lord’s Work. Hi five!

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      • I get glitter and a hi five on the same day? I knew today would be a good day.

        I once dated a guy that was 5’5 on a good day. Now that SOB had a napolean complex. No, I’m lying he was just an a$$hole and a short one at that.

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      • “We (tall chicks on the market) need more of you doing The Lord’s Work. Hi five!”

        LMAO @ “The Lord’s Work”!!!!

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  104. My question is, can you actually look at a man and tell how tall he is? I’m 6’0 1/2….but could someone look at me and say, well, “He’s not 6’1″…or, if a man is 5’11, and your limit is 6’0…can you actually appraise his height? Really…..

    It seems at a point that its more about what people think about dating a 5’5 dude, than him just being a good dude to you/for you. At least, thats how it seems.

    My motto is, every body can (try to)date who they want to. Everybody can have any preference that they want to. But we’ve GOT TO be willing to deal with the good and bad of those choices and preferences. ITs really no more simple than that.

    Thats why I dont trip when women say they want a “tall” man….they’re fully within their rights. But in wanting that tall man, you cut off a vast majority of the male population. Similarly, if a woman wants a man who makes lots of money, is handsmome…has a masters…..athletic, smart…etc….then cool..go after him. Hang out where they are. But when you DONT find him…or when you DO find him and he’s not impressed with you enough to wanna date you, then you cant really be mad (I mean, you can get upset or whatever, lol…but) because those are conscious decisions that YOU made. Thats just how the “game go.”

    Ive also noticed that these height requirements (and other requirements for that matter)end to get “loosened” a little as women get older….lol

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  105. Is it just me or is this post (and yesterday’s for that matter) bringing sexy tall men out of the woodwork???? I’m about to post up my info and make a love connection right now….holla at me if you live in the NYC area *wink* Lol

    Let me stop this foolishness. It is WAY too early in the day for me to act a fool ( even if it IS hump day. just saying).

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  106. I knew this was coming. What’s funny to me, and I’m glad you mentioned in your post, is that men do this ALL of the time and have been since the beginning of n*ggadom. If you really want to call women hypocrites for having preferences, then so be it. You can blast the women who have height preferences but we are no different from the women who have a preference for ANYTHING. My point is, EVERYONE has a preference…including you. We all have certain characteristics in the opposite s.ex that arouse us, whether it be height, tiddies, @ss, race, color, etc. It is 100% a part of being human. Even people who say they don’t have a preference, do. They’re just not aware.

    With that said, is it okay to completely deny a man that you ARE attracted to, simply because he doesn’t meet all of your requirements? No. That’s just stupid. If I meet a man who is great, I’m attracted to him, etc yet he’s under 5’10″, I’d still date him. And wait for it…most women would to! (Shocker) Here’s the funny thing about talk, it’s only words. If you look around, people break their “requirements” everyday. The guy who requires his women to have a donk, is dating a skinny minnie just like the woman who is requiring her man to make 100k a year is dating a construction worker. Most people are smart enough to keep on liking who the like regardless of the little things like being married, having a record, etc. At the end of the day, it’s okay to have a preference and NO it doesn’t make you retarded. It makes you human. Just don’t skip over people who are good for you because of a small perceived flaw.

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    • I dunno if I buy a woman seeing the perfect man and denying him because he is short. unlike men, women aren’t stupid. we will figure out a way to make the perfect man’s imperfection work.

      now, we might put our foot down on getting to know a short man, but don’t act like we up here denying marriage proposals from strong eligible bachelors simply because of a height requirement.

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      • Exactly! Thanks e-sis. I see women breaking their rules all of the time. We’re much more compromising than men are. It’s not that serious. Champ aint even short. :)

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        • “It’s not that serious. Champ aint even short. ”

          what, so because I’m not short i can’t stand up for my brethren? see, typical black woman. trying to divide and conquer the bros.

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          • The Short Black Man of the World (SBMW) thanks you and appreciates your support!
            (I would sign this but the table is too high)

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    • And another thing…we’re hypocrites for blasting men for doing the same thing we do yet ya’ll are blasting us for doing the same thing ya’ll do, so we’re ALL hypocrites. I think the reason why men are so up in arms over this is because ya’ll can’t stand it when women exclude you for any reason. We can be subject to all the objectification by men and the media, etc but let a woman say she has a small preference, LAWD. I refuse to suscribe to the theory that “a man’s being a man”. If you don’t like it, don’t do it.

      To answer the question: yes I PREFER taller men because unlike some of my fellow VSS’s said yesterday, 5’6 is on the taller scale for women so I like my men to be taller than me in heels. Judge me.

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      • It really sounds like while being fairly logical, that you somehow recognized and discarded the fact that you were attempting to again reverse the finger pointing at hypocrisy. ‘Tis hilarious to me. I appreciate you for it. Too subtle maybe but thats through my lens.

        I like your perspective. There is a confidence in your words away from the arrogance typically expressed. Anyways….I don’t disagree or agree…I just appreciate it.

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            • not even a lil back handed. It is purely a compliment.

              I was actually relating to you a lot.
              I only meant it in the most positive and affirming of ways. I didn’t imagine I was telling you anything that you didn’t know.

              I was not calling you arrogant, or anything else negative. I was saying that though there is a lot of arrogance expressed by whoever here and there, that I saw what you did as confidence.

              A mature and accepting perspective.

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    • i think you’re right in that people are people and having a preference for universally perceived positive attributes is natural, I just don’t think you hear men putting restrictions on the women they date because they lack a specific superficial quality as much. I don’t even think it’s socially acceptable to do so. Maybe it’s anecdotal, but I don’t hear men saying I only date big assded women or women that make under a certain amount. And I don’t think it’s common for a straight man to have a checklist or to have even have thought about what would be on it. But that’s probably a symptom of a systemic issue. A woman’s worth in society is still defined in terms of her mate in a way that is not for men. Or maybe it’s both nature and nurture, who knows.

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      • Meech, do you live in America? Men are shallow and always have specific physical requirements and preferences. There are a$$ men, and tiddy men, and ass to waist ratio men, and long hair men and good hair men (side eye to them btw) and weight requirements men. It is TOTALLY socially acceptable for men to be this way too, and this coincides the fcuked up beauty standard in this country. I appreciate you for being idealistic enough to think this doesn’t exist, though. Really, why are you not married yet 0_0?

        I think absolutes are probably not the case (I ONLY date tall/big assded women) but the general trends for these preferences are definitely at play all the time.

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        • LOL, I wasn’t saying men are more or less shallow than women. I genuinely believe that men and women have the same level of shallowness and fundamental fcukupdedness, it’s just reflected through different lenses of hormones and societal constructs. That’s how I pretty much approach all difference between the sexes arguments, which is pretty boring. My point is more subtle, just that women vocalize the “types” constraints more than men which colors perception. When I talk about social acceptability, I talk about how acceptable it is for a man to say he won’t date a pretty woman with huge breasts because she doesn’t have an ass. Both men and women would perceive that as “suspicious” and kind of feminine.

          A woman SAYING she wouldn’t date a Ray Allen because he’s bald is par for the course. You know deep down your home girls are as likely to stick to those proclamations as they are to actually know exactly what they want in a man. Look back at all my statements, they all address perceptions and what the sexes say, because the truth is something totally different.

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          • yeah you right. the truth is always different from what folks SAY they want. I think that’s why I have decided to come to terms with the fact that I am gonna marry someone who is totally NOT whatever it is I say I want.

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            • I’m curious. If thats what an idiot like myself is telling other women and then you say it, do you all just not like me saying it, or is it the utterly incompetent manner in which I say it? I know how women can get particular and what not.

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              • It could be your delivery. It could also be that some women have yet to come to terms with this either because they haven’t had to or because they don’t choose to. I just know I have several friends who have married guys they never thought they’d be with, but these guys made them the happiest women in the world. I figure it can’t be that bad of a concept. Maybe I just needed to see some exmaples, maybe I just needed to mature enough to get to this point. But it could also be in your delivery lol.

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        • ….And then there are men like me that knows he ain’t Eric Benet, Idris Elba, Denzel, Shemar Moore, or whoever else it is women consider “fine” these days, so why waste time going after the Halle Berrys and Kenya Moores of the world?

          Nobody’s gonna believe me when I say this, but I don’t (and have never in my life) go (went) for the overly fine women. I know my limitations. Plus it’s been my experience that most women above a certain attractiveness level often just don’t have enough substance for me. (However, there is a bare minimum….I ain’t out here going for mud ducks. and Butterheads.)

          Looks simply don’t move me that much. I want a woman for her mind and her personality. The best-looking woman I’ve ever tried to approach was maybe a 6-7 (but had most of the inner qualities I look for).

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      • Meech you can’t be serious. As a woman, I wish you could hear all of the men who tell me they prefer lightskin, long hair, no acne, not too small not too big donks, more than a mouthful breasts, pretty feet, nice legs, almond eyes, beauty mole, no naps having woman who are from Jamaica. Being that I’m none of these things, I’m 4’5″ and 300lbs, it’s hard out here in these streets. So hard that it tells me that men DO have preferences.

        Everyone has them…everyone. I’m willing to bet good money that men have waaaay more preferences than women do. Fact.

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        • *dead*

          Yeah, men are super vocal about letting their preferences be known. Maybe it’s their way of trying to woo us, I don’t know, but they def have some detailed ass details about what they like physically speaking lol. Me on the other hand, height was like the ONLY preference I had. Light, dark, medium, dreads, bald, skinny, fat, hard bodied, one leg, two legs….way too many options going on for me to narrow anything else down. Just be taller than me. The taller the better, but I’m not gonna give you a tall pass just cuz.

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        • LOL. Funny how all of those preferences describe you, isn’t it? Must be rough having prototype problems, huh? Although I haven’t seen your feet. Prefer, not “I only date” or “I don’t date”. Notice how in the Champ scenario height was a deal breaker?

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      • And I don’t think it’s common for a straight man to have a checklist or to have even have thought about what would be on it.

        I agree with this. I don’t even know any man who goes around having a checklist… They meet girls, they like them or they don’t…. and to be fair, a lot of my girlfriends don’t have checklists either (or at least they don’t share it with me)… This checklist thing seems a bit teenager-ish if you ask me. When you know what relationships entail, you know a grocery list of nice to have on sundays, must haves on wednesday and so on and so forth is just ludicrous at best and ridiculous at worst.

        Let’s not confuse “standards”, “expectations” with an imaginary (and equally unnecessary) checklist.

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  107. This post settles it for me; men are ABSOLUTELY RIDICULOUS!!! Women aren’t allowed to have ANY physical preferences about the men we date??!!! Men engage in this ish ALL. THE. TIME!!! We’re only legit if we date funny 5ft and under 3’s??!!! And castigated in a post that (seriously Champ??!!!) compares a woman’s “illogical” height preference to a man’s much more “logical” T & A preference???!!! GTFOH!!!!! Women deal w/the weeding out process everyday. Shoe on the other foot? Deal!!!!

    My $.02…

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        • Not in the true sense though. We as women still get surprised in the bedroom. We should be able to have this info before we make it to the bedroom. it would save everyone some time!

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          • Lol, you mean to know upfront. That is totally unfair. Besides, women are distracted by enough false pretenses- swag, cars-you don’t need anymore.

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          • I like how men are receiving all the attention in the private parts as if our *manhood* was the only thing that came in variable sizes. Why are you all contesting how we speak on women and their preferences BUT focus merely on man meat or the lack of any significant weight there and women are all up in arms again.
            I know. Chick logic.
            But really, y’all expect a social conversation to follow the paradigms active in intimate situations? There is more than one man here, we know that each other ain’t off base. We also know that women tend to be …extra…when it comes to discussions. Here, y’all are going to either concede some sense of rational reasoning or its just going to continue to be “ring around the rosey” with one ideal replacing another and eternally quid pro quo.

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    • I don’t think the post is saying that women can’t choose men based on their height, I think it was more saying that some women’s process of choosing men based on height makes no sense. A 5’3 woman does sound rather silly disregarding a 5’9 man on the basis of height. A 6’0 woman disregarding a 5’9 man makes more sense.

      I think the post is about the exclusion of logic and mathematical reality some women employ when selecting a man to date.

      And yes, T&A is a more logical qualification. The reason is that most men are willing to date a woman even when she isn’t well endowed in the T&A area. All she really needs is the T or the A, sometimes neither. (Zoe Saldana)

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  108. First let me say that iDied when I saw the topic for today. I KNEW that the thread about the height requirements was ripe for even further discussion. I was certainly heated!

    I’m standing by my statement from yesterday, though; TALL GUYS APPROACH SHORT GIRLS! Many of us do not have a height requirement but that’s all that approach us. Eff what you heard!

    “Anyway, people of VSB.com, how do you feel about the completely illogical height preferences phenomenon?”
    I can understand the phenomenon. In my case, I could cite studies that say women prefer men who are like their fathers. Mine is 6’3. So even though I’m 5’1 (mom is 4’11), if I buy into that study, I would tend to like tall men like my dad. I could cite those studies, but I won’t since I don’t have a height preference.

    “Do you think women are justified in feeling this way, or is the hypocrisy making you gag?”
    I think women can feel however they want to. I’ll say that at a certain age, some of these superficial requirements will have to be reconsidered when your ace is home lonely. After all, those degrees can’t keep us warm at night. If his pockets are tall (or what’s in them is tall), I’m good!

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  109. I like a man my height (5’8″) or better. I don’t want you asking me to pull stuff from the top shelf, and after sex I want your shirt to cover my bottom when I run to the bathroom.

    AS for preferring a 6′+ man, it’s just nice to be completely enveloped when someone hugs you.

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  110. An 6’1” man whipping a F-150? Cool. A 5’5” man whipping a F-150? Overcompensating.

    I think I’m going to break this news to my pocket sized father over the phone. Delivering this kind of message in person could get me kilt.

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  111. The funniest part is that women call us shallow for something they can control (weight), yet men can control their height.

    They can always loose weight, but height is out of our hands.

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    • I wonder if some of the height drama is really a weight question? I’ll only speak for myself here; I’m a larger woman and I do have a preference for a bigger guy. (Of course my current SO is slim, so my preference effectively means sh*t.) I feel like i’d break a skinny dude, but I swear skinny dudes stay in my face. All that to say, maybe height isn’t the crux of it, but perceived strength. A short, slim man is going to be perceived as weaker than a tall man whether he’s big or skinny.

      I don’t call men that don’t like big girls shallow; but I think it would be silly to completely dismiss someone because they don’t fit your physical ideal in a way that doesn’t matter, which is what some of the women here are also stating. Discounting a man for a few inches of heighth is the as purposeless as discounting a woman for a few extra pounds.

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      • Yeah, if a dude is short AND skinny, it just feels weird.

        But don’t sleep and think they are weak. I went out with a dude who was exactly half my weight, and he surprised me by picking me up and holding it for a good minute. Heavier men have failed at that.

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      • I’m a bigger woman myself and my current sweetie is my height (maybe 5’6 ish) and a skinny dude..I thought the chex would be awkward but dayummm it’s good..prolly cuz we have good chemistry and we genuinely like each other… *just a thought*

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      • WIP
        i will say like you skinny men stay up in my face… stay… i actually prefer football bodies or even husky/stocky/chubby but those men aren’t checking for me…not at all… they keep on passing me by, but let him be 6ft and 160 lbs and i can’t shake the dude… hearing all night how they can handle me, break me down etc… both my husbands and the 3 almost husbands as well as my current partner are all very slim dudes

        the fact that i am tall and big may play a part in me preferring taller men but since studies show that women across ALL racial, ethnic, and cultural backgrounds seem to choose taller men, then i’m not sure if it’s my size or i’m just a regular ole woman in that respect.

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  112. I’m around 5’8, 5’9 and I think it’s okay for me to prefer a man that’s a little taller than me. Now, being the same height or a little shorter doesn’t automatically disqualify a man. I’ve dated guys my height or a little shorter than me. However, I do not want to be able to sling him on my hip like a little baby, a la Antoine Dodson.

    I think it’s rather selfish of short girls to try and scoop up all the tall guys. It’s really quite selfish. I mean, at 5’3…dang near EVERYBODY is taller than you. So your good to go. You’re winning. There’s a tall man shortage, period. Then you add in other factors as to whether he’s good looking, bathes regularly, has all his teeth…and many potential candidates fall to the wayside.

    I have a friend who only dates dark skin men 6’3 and up. Now that’s just dumb! Basically you’re saying you only date NBA players. It’s funny that her current dude is all of 5’7.

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    • “However, I do not want to be able to sling him on my hip like a little baby, a la Antoine Dodson.”

      LOL! Exactly!

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    • LOL, cosign all this. When everyone is taller than you, height doesn’t mean much. I don’t think its unreasonable to want someone of equitable height. I don’t understand dismissing a man that’s your same height though.

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    • Now the strength factor is something I can appreciate. I dont think its unreasonable for a woman of any size to want a man that is strong (at any size).

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  113. “Sometimes they’ll even try spit some evolutionary gobbledygook about “feeling safer” with a taller man, like you need that extra two inches to help fend off the woolly mammoths and foaming crackheads of the Saks Fifth Serengeti. F*ckers.”

    Welp.

    But even more entertaining is the plethora of “must haves” that some women have (outside of the physical), that they don’t even meet themselves. I’m not trippin’ off the height because admittedly I tend to prefer petite women, but I don’t understand those that demand a man make a certain amount of money, drive a certain kind of car, and have his own place while they’re pulling the graveyard shift at Burger King and still living with their third baby’s father.

    You can’t be serious.

    Still, I fully recognize that both sexes at times have unreasonable standards. I have homeboys that still live with their moms, have kids by multiple women, but wont date a woman that isn’t educated and doesn’t have her own (car, crib, money, etc).

    It works both ways.

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  114. “At least a man’s preference for T and A is actually about the T and A…not whether his girl’s ass will look fat enough when he takes her to the company picnic.”

    This is not true, guys do care about what their boys are gonna say about the way their girl looks, when they bring her around, dont play!

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  115. It’s good you all are writing on this stupid phenomenon. At 6 feet tall, I’ve never had any of the problems meeting the height restriction quota, however I felt sorry for some of my shorter friends. Wait…no I didn’t, because they go at chicks harder than most of the tall cats I know (easier when you’re tall) and they compensate for their height with…what is it the women like nowadays “swag?” Yeah that’s it.

    Oh well, back to reading the rest of these comments and then back to my kitten farm where I will be supplying a lot of VSS’s cuddly companions when all the 6+ footers are bunned up.

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  116. I’m 5’10″. I tower over my daughter’s father. So, I mean I tried the short man thing. Just can’t rock with it. (For the record, that’s not why we’re not together anymore lol). But idk, call it being uncomfortable in my skin, whatever. It’s bad enough that I tower over most of my friends. I just can’t get with looking down to my man. Not to mention, I’ll always feel bad making comments that wouldn’t ordinarily offend someone on my level. How can I joke around and say “man up, ninja! haha..ha.ha.. ooh sorry….” Or how about when I can’t reach something? “Bay, can you reach me the…. nevermind. Kick that stool over here.” Lol I just need my man to have that height advantage over me. I’m more comfortable. My boyfriend now is 6’7″ and calls me a midget. Effin awesome!

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  117. I actually think short guys (like plain girls) have it easiest when it comes to dating, if they choose to see it that way. Tall men, like pretty women, have a lot of attention but most of it is from people mesmerized with them simply because they are pretty or tall. Those that own who they are and simply date those that want them – get hitched and live in bliss.

    But I often meet a lot of shorter guys that want what tall guys “appear” to have – an abundance of women fawning all over them. And tall guys want what short guys have – a women that would love them if they were short.

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  118. I’m 5’11″ and I have had many women in my day that were taller me. I mean like 6’2″ flat so when they put on heels, which I encourage, like 6’6″. I love the feeling of walking in a place with a tall bad chic and people looking at me like damn little man must be doing something right. Not like I’m really that little but standing next to a chic 6’6″ I look small. From my experience with tall women if you as a guy are cool with it they are cool with it too. For some reason my tall chic game is awesome and all my boys know it too. When we are out and see a bad tall women they know I’m going to go for it and I usually don’t get denied. This kinda off subject but oh well *** Kanye Shrug***

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    • You’re right. If a short dude is down, often times the woman is willing to give it a try. It’s not like munchkin dudes are knocking me down trynna holla (mental image FTW). I think they play a part in the height discrimination gam to begin with.

      The one time I dated a guy shorter than me, i was nervous about the height thing but once i realized he didn’t care and he was actually confident about it, I let it go and opened my mind to the idea.

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    • It’s definitely different if the dude is already tall though. If you’re like 6′ and dating a girl that’s 6’2”, not that many people can say anything since you’re both taller than most people any ways.

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  119. This is my first time posting after being a “lurker” for the past two months but I thought it was time for me to add my lil two cents in the discussion even if its 9hrs in. I’m only 5’0 and I don’t care what height the man is…. well ok too tall is awkward. So what I’m really trying to say is as long as he’s taller than me (I don’t wanna end up with munchkin kids…. don’t judge me lol) but not over 6’0, hell maybe 5’10, he’s good with me.

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  120. I’m 6 ft even, so I’m neither tall nor short.

    I don’t have a preference between the two. In fact, I like the variety. Tall and short both have their advantages.

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  121. It’ll be interesting to see how this whole “I only date guys who are 5’10″ and up phenomenon so my son will be tall” works out in about 20 years. My predictions:

    1.) Women will, instead, have female children (since there’s an alledged greater female birth rate) that will be “Amazons” thereby further dwendling their potential dating pool.

    2.) The marriage rate in the black community will further decline.

    3.) Many now 20-something females will find themselves reflecting on life at 43 when they have no more eggs to drop and realize that those 5’7″ guys she denied were probably not so bad because at least she wouldn’t be lonely now and she would have at least had her own biologically related offspring.

    4.) Because of item 3, the adoption rate will increase for black children.

    5.) Also because of item 3, the African-American population decreases.

    6.) More black males will migrate away from dating black women, possibly with bitter regards towards black women, because they are aware of black women’s discrimination based on height requirements, producing a hybrid race of 5′X” biracials.

    7.) Black women will get married even later in life (circa age 50) when their requirements that he have a good conversation and make her laugh begins to outweigh their need for 4-inch heels and a male fashion accessory.

    8.) Black women will migrate their dating preferences to other cultures to find men who meet their height requirements and will produce a hybrid race of 6-foot biracials.

    9.) Because bi-racial will become common place, for 20-somethings in 2031, dark skin will become the new light-skint preference.

    10.) The Republicans will win because fewer will identify solely with “black” and will not necessarily vote Democratic and will lead to more Tea Party friendly legislation. The Tea Party will dwindle because they no longer have a clear idea of who to take back “their” country from.

    Basically, African-American as we know it cease to exist.

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  122. I’m currently kinda dating a guy who’s 5’8″. That’s only one inch taller than myself WITHOUT HEELS. Honestly, I’ve dated many men below 6′, even one guy an inch SHORTER than myself. And you know what I’ve found? I’ve found that the MEN are the most concerned about looks when they’re out with a tall/taller woman.

    This shows up in online dating. I CLEARLY PUT my height on any and all dating profiles, and still a guy shows up and goes, “Dang! I didn’t know you were that tall!” When I point out to him that my specs were clearly listed in my profile (AND OMIT THE FACT THAT I OVERLOOKED THAT HE WAS ONLY 5’9″), they act all cool, but periodically ask throughout the date if I “normally wear heels”. WTF.

    Anyway, my point is, dudes DEFINITELY care about who they’re seen with, just as much as most women do. For me, height isn’t really something I discriminate against in a guy I’m really feeling, but I’ll be honest and say a dude with a busted grill is going to be a tough sell for me.

    And as far as the below statement?:

    “At least a man’s preference for T and A is actually about the T and A…not whether his girl’s ass will look fat enough when he takes her to the company picnic.”

    I must say that I KNOW for a fact that many men care about how the woman on their arm stacks up to other women, or about how their boys will view her. That’s why there are terms like “trophy wife”, etc. etc.

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    • I must say that I KNOW for a fact that many men care about how the woman on their arm stacks up to other women, or about how their boys will view her. That’s why there are terms like “trophy wife”, etc. etc.

      while that’s true, we’re generally superficial enough to know if we’re dating tumbleweed. so it’s more like validation, not acceptance, that we’re seeking from our homeys. it takes us so long to commit that chances are we aren’t going to kick somebody to the curb b/c our boy doesnt think she’s hot. by the time we decide to be with you, we’re with you. we just want our boys to want to hit too. though if they do y’all both gonna have to die.

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      • Not that I generally subscribe to this way of thinking, but women like validation from their girls too. We don’t want to look like all we could pull was a height-impaired dude, or a dude who has no job but has “great potential”, or a dude that is really sweet but has chronic B.O. They want to show their girls and society that they were awesome enough to get the whole package.

        Think about it. I don’t know how many times I’ve read in blogs and heard from the mouths of many men that even if a girl is beautiful, if she’s single after a certain age, something is wrong with her and she shouldn’t be taken seriously or avoided like the plague. Men don’t have this same stigma. So yeah, we want to tag and tame a prize-worthy bull, not the runt of the litter.

        I tend not to think this way, however, and that’s probably because I spent most of my life being the big girl that most guys were making fun of and only recently have this new body that attracts the so-called prize-worthy bulls. I’m still the type to take the chance on the underdog, be turned off by the arrogance of the “studs” and say GFY to anyone who has a problem.

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  123. While this post is generally directed at chick logic bible thumping women who want an uber tall man despite not being able to reach the sink themselves, I actually think I have height preferences too. Back in the day (when I was young I’m not a kid anymore but some days I sit and wish I was a kid again), I dated a chick who was 4’11″ on a good day. In heels she broke 5′. While it was fun to do the Mexican Jumping Bean Salsa Meringue around her house and the fact that I could toss her in the air and put her in my pocket, truth is, I’m just not a good enough person to date an uber tiny chick.

    I used to use her as an armrest. I’d call her the table, and attempt to put books on her. LOL. I was a dbag but I thought it was hilarious. She of course, got tired of the short jokes (especially considering that I’m not over 6′ myself) and started throwing things at me. Mostly fish crackers and action figures, but still. Now I can’t say that I have a height preference, but tiny ovaries don’t really appeal to me. Mostly cuz…what happens if I have a son with her and somehow her tiny genes kick in and make actual mini-mes??? I’m taller than my dad, but he’s also the shortest person in his whole family. I thought I was going to be a gnome until I grew like 7 inches one summer…that sentence is funny.

    Anyway, I do think chicks with ridiculous standards like that are doomed to be single, but it’s not the only way many of those chicks are heading that way. I’ve been meaning to write “Single Woman Syndrome” for a long time and maybe the time is due.

    But I also think that with age, wisdom, and maturity comes the slackening of standards. Plus karma is real. The chick professing all that height BS will inevitably end up with an NBA player like Eric Williams or date a 5’7″ dude with a stable income and career and fall in love and have 5’9″ sons.

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  124. This post is wonderful! LOL! I’m 5’1″ so that puts me at 5’5″ or 5’6″ in heels (depending on what show I wear) and the shortest guy I’ve dated was 5’9″ and I’m pretty sure that’s the limit. I feel like I have the same amount of tall men (the tallest being 6’10″ and I thought that was stupid) approach me to short men so I feel like since I have a choice I’m surely not going to choose the smallest ones in the litter. The men in my family are all 5’10″ (180lbs+) and above so I just like what I’m used to.

    Reply ↓

    • LOLLL, oh no not the “samllest ones in the litter” LOL. I think I would date a lot more shorter men if I were shorter. A lot of them are pretty awesome. Once they get past their Napolean complex.

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  125. This is the story of my everyday life. I’m 5’8 and my boyfriend is 5’9. I’ll admit, it took me a while to really get comfy wearing heels when we go out. And I had to learn that short/tight dresses + 6″ heels + shorter BF = looking like a prositute.

    I think women have a right to like what they like. Just have to be realistic that by cancelling guys by height you’re limiting your dating pool. Guys do the same thing with the booty, so in the end it all cancels itself out.

    Reply ↓

    • And I had to learn that short/tight dresses + 6? heels + shorter BF = looking like a prositute.

      This comment right here was quite funny.

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  126. So, after reading this post, and all the comments from women who prefer taller men, i asked my girl if i’m the shortest man she’s ever dated (i’m 5’10). it just so happened that i am, but i am also the most passionate, considerate, and loving man she’s also dated. Case in point: Avg./short dudes bring that A game. DON’T SLEEP.

    Reply ↓

    • lol they bring it except for when they don’t! lol. napolean complexes are real. but, i do think you’re not short. just short-ish. a 5’6″ man is short.

      Reply ↓

    • you know why i love women? b/c if you ask a woman that question, she’s going to answer it the same way every time…by listing all of your great qualities too JUST in case she feels like you may have any insecurity about that.

      boobs are great.

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  127. Some questions about the heels. On average, how many days per week do you wear heels? What is the average heel size? When you date, how often do you wear heels?

    Reply ↓

    • For me, always on a date, usually 3 inches, maybe 4. Daily, to work, probably 3 out of 5 days but shorter because I take the stairs (sometimes.)

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    • most days i am between 5’6″ and 5’8″ because shorter heels/flats/sneakers facilitate getting things done. but if we going out, i’m going to be at least 5’9″. my heel game starts at 3″ and the last two pairs of heels I bought were 4″ and 5″ respectively. i always wear heels when going out- date or not. the exceptions are: 1) if it’s snowing/wintry mixing because broken bones are not cute. 2) i’m going to sports bar or attending a live sporting event- i can not be that girl. or 3) i’m going out straight from werk.

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        • yes. 5’8″ – 5’9″ because i would really like you to be taller than me flats, which is where i have and will continue to spend most of my time living life. however, i am much more concerned about you being ugly than tall so if you are 5’7″ and beautiful, i’m going to get over it.

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    • I try to avoid heels at work, so maybe 1x/week M-F, and then once every other weekend. My beau doesn’t really care for heels, so it depends on my mood (and what our date will entail) if I choose to wear heels when we go out.

      Reply ↓

    • I only wear them out (never to work or casual errands), so once a week for me is a busy time, LOL! I like to rock 3″ b/c it’s comfy & looks better than the shorter heels, but most of mine are 4″s – for some blasted reason they make the cutest shoes in higher heel heights. The few 5″ I have are strictly for the bedroom, I never could get used to walking in them so I try to put them to good use – LOL

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  128. I’m 5’11″ and I don’t discriminate against any man because of size. I’ve dated as short as 5’5″ and as tall as 6’4″. In the end they are all the same, standing up or lying down. As long as you can treat me like a lady and make me feel sexier, I don’t give a fuck how tall you are.

    Side note: I’ve never been with a short dude who’s height wasn’t compensated for…if you get my drift…

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  129. Wow Caballeroso, that was deep! You should pitch that as one of those futuristic movies and sh*t. Get Spike Lee to direct and call it “The last ni**a on earth”

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  130. Calling out anything hyporcritical women do is really tough because they will NOT just say “You know what, you’re right. Then End.”

    They feel compelled to tack on a “but men do it too”. The one and only point of that is to get some or all of the focus off of them.

    Women feel justified and morally entitled to openly talk kack about short dudes and they seriously resent the idea that that’s wrong or messed up or hypocritical.

    Reply ↓

    • Agreed, just because men are falling into twisted ‘man-think” doesn’t mean women should feel an obligation to hide behind “chick logic” either.

      Reply ↓

      • I like how you tried to throw out “man-think” as a response to “chick logic.” Doesn’t it kind of prove Scipio’s point about shifting the focus?

        Reply ↓

          • Or even better, so that it’s not about me or you or any one person, they can’t just say:

            “You know what, that’s wrong. The End.”

            Reply ↓

            • Well, I’m pretty sure I’ve said it was wrong several times today, just not in this specific comment. And I thought that’s what my post conveyed- that both were wrong. It wasn’t clear to you because y’all are too deep in man-think I’ll try to be clearer next time.

              Reply ↓

              • Sorry, I haven’t been studying your replies over this already-600-replies-at-11:30-AM post. But since you’ve already said a variation of “You know what, that’s wrong. The End.”, I commed you for that and I thank you.

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  131. Well I am a tall woman (5’10″) and Ive always dismissed a guy for not being tall enough. I have dated shorter (5’8″) men, well one short man to be exact. But to I feel like a woman, and like im protected by a man, I prefer men that are damn near close to my height or taller than me. I also would like to wear heels without towering over my man. LOL I love stilettos.

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  132. Quite honestly, I am rather appalled at what I just read. Why is it that everything must be focused on the physical and materialistic? If people just accepted people for who they are and trying to be and not worry about anything else.

    I’ve dated tall guys (5’11, 6′, and 6’3 respectfully) I’ve dated larger guys (250, 260, and 290 respectfully but they were built like tanks as they were athletes), and I’ve dated shorter guys (5’6, 5’7, 5’8, and 5’9 respectfully), and I’m currently dating someone who is shorter and built like a tank, and I’m about 2 inches taller when wearing certain shoes and I’m 5’7 and while at times I may be little self conscious, that is not what our relationship is based on.

    What our relationship is based on is trust, respect, friendship, unity, support, and love to name a few of those wonderful qualities. I would like to think that we bring out the best qualities in the other, and we don’t focus on the physical.

    He could have had anyone that he wanted and I’m not always the brightest bulb in the light group or the sharpest tool in the shed, or even the best looking, he chose me and loves me unconditionally without prejudice or reservation, just as I love him unconditionally without prejudice or reservation and that includes his height, and the amount of money he makes, or what he even does for work.

    If people, particularly black people because they are the only ones that publicly let it be known and loudly what they want and don’t want, just for once focused on the more important things in life, rather than the materialistic and physical; we’d be so better off.

    Focus on being respectful to one another and love one another in a relationship, support each other in terms of what is going on in the others’ world; help them realize their goals and dreams, and their purpose and plan that God has for them rather than how tall or short they are, if they’re good in bed, or how much money they have and if their credit is good or not.

    If I offended some people, oh well, I’m sorry, wasn’t the intention, but I am so tired of hearing black people say what they will or will not do and with this holier than thou attitude looking down on people. No one is perfect and we all have faults, if we’d stop tearing each other down, black people would not have the issues they have now.

    Reply ↓

    • welcome!

      Quite honestly, I am rather appalled at what I just read. Why is it that everything must be focused on the physical and materialistic? If people just accepted people for who they are and trying to be and not worry about anything else.

      This is asking too much from society. Not even sure why you hold out hope for this lol. I’m not offended, but just wondering what kind of utopic community you hail from.

      Reply ↓

      • No this is not asking too much…..I work with kids and everyday i see kids either starving themselves and being something other than themselves just to fit into a clique, or kids bullying other kids that may be smaller, not as smart, or weaker than they are. More God needs to be in the picture, and we are sending the wrong message to society.

        There is too much emphasis on materialistic and physical and black people as a whole feed right into the conformity of society, sometimes more than others, and that is a form of genocide because society wants blacks and latinos as a whole to fail and how they do that; feeding into the materialistic and physical.

        This is the society that we are living in and that is why there are they issues and problems that there are……With all due respect everyone needs to start realizing this and think about the messages that are being sent to the kids….Unfortunately and this is a stated fact, other races of people do not have the PUBLICLY known issues that black people have, and a lot of those issues black people did to themselves and the only way to resolve them is to change the way of thinking and focus on what message God is sending and how God wants us to live our lives rather than how man wants us to live our lives because it is man that wants us to focus on the materialistic and physical, not God……

        So not that is not asking too much…and it is no Utopia that I’m from, I’m speaking from a realistic standpoint.

        Reply ↓

        • I’m sorry to say this but what you’re suggesting won’t happen in consumer driven society, especially if you’re speaking on African American culture. Beauty is big business & standards of beauty have been conditioned into people from every social & economic background. Now, I do agree with you-superficial standards are being pushed needlessly & with damaging effects to our society. But there’d have to be a monumental change on self esteem & self acceptance within our society to have any change.

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  133. Well don’t really have much to add here.. I’m 5’5″1/2 and I have dated short and tall men but all of my serious boyfriends have been in the 5’9″ish – 5’11″ range.. Works for me.

    But I do agree with the “long as he’s taller than me in heels” thing.. But even with some pairs of platform heels I have, I am the same height or maybe a half inch taller than my current SO. Doesn’t bother me.

    I did date this one guy who was about 5’5″ – 5’6″ once and I normally that might bother me but man, he was fiiiiine and his body was HAWT!!!! (Yes, clearly overcompensating…but it worked, shhhh) But even on top of him being physically attractive, he just exuded so much confidence and charisma and was such a gentleman that you would kinda forget that he was short. He had a big man’s personality. And the couple ex’s of his that I saw were all beautiful women. So I think a lot of women are missing out if they insist on sticking to this silly height requirement. Like some others said, if you’re Lisa Leslie tall then ok but other than that, get over it..

    Look at Michelle Obama – she’s 5’11″, Barack’s what, like 6’2″ or something? Nothing Michelle always wears flats.. otherwise she’d be constantly towering over him. You have a short or on the short side guy, if the whole “appearance” thing means so much to you, stop wearing 6 inch heels..

    Besides, you know what they say, everyone’s the same height when they’re vertical ;-)

    Reply ↓

    • Y’all are killing me with this heels thing. Where are you guys going where it matters that much?

      “he just exuded so much confidence and charisma and was such a gentleman that you would kinda forget that he was short. He had a big man’s personality.”

      Isn’t that offensive BK?? LOL

      Reply ↓

      • Not that, but I work in a corporate setting so I wear heels pretty much daily.

        Haha may be offensive the way I said it but I’m speaking from a perspective of a woman who has previously had hang ups about a man’s height. So that’s how I felt at the time.

        Not too mention, short men (my definition being 5’7″ and under) are notorious for having napolean complexes and it’s not too hard to see that they’re clearly trying to overcompensate for being vertically challenged.

        Reply ↓

        • You know, I wonder if it’s the short-ish men that date equitable height and taller women that have these complexes? I haven’t experienced this myself, but seems like many of you taller girls have.

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  134. Ctrl + F => “heel”
    Number of Occurrences = 104, time check = 11:47am
    Are you all serious with this sh*t? Like for real?!

    Cab’s comment was the best:
    3.) Many now 20-something females will find themselves reflecting on life at 43 when they have no more eggs to drop and realize that those 5’7? guys she denied were probably not so bad because at least she wouldn’t be lonely now and she would have at least had her own biologically related offspring.
    > http://www.verysmartbrothas.com/why-women-like-tall-men/#comment-263454

    //side note: @Liz I know you probably have a long to-do list but could please throw these in the suggestion box:
    - A digg style “up” or “down” vote on a comment (with the most dug being highlighted/somehow prominent. Like a comment-rating WordPress plugin or something.)
    - optimize for mobile
    mkaythanx!

    p.s.: congrats on all the press & success. Very well deserved!

    Reply ↓

    • Mobile I can work on. Voting up or down comments? Prolly not in the works because I am against that idea entirely, UNLESS it came with a sorting filter that was optional for folks to toggle. Looking for that solution tho, without having to go third party.

      Reply ↓

      • I understand your objections. But since this is a “relationship and dating blog” can we please get estrogen votes, testosterone votes, pandering points and Miscegenation points? It would make the community so much more interactive and give a greater part of the viewership a way to feel more involved with the community without the pressure of commenting.

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  135. Simply put I am 5’0.5″ and prefer and have only dated guys over 5’10″

    I also refuse to date a man who is under 5’8″ at the very LEAST (like no more options)

    Reply ↓

    • I understand the preference, but the refusal of all men under 5’8, on the surface, doesn’t make sense to me. You telling me that if your ideal man was 7 inches taller than you, you’d pass him by? I’m calling shenanigans on this one.

      Reply ↓

      • @WIP

        My ideal man? My ideal man is 5’8 +

        @Liz_Nothing wrong with it for the next one but for me, I say uh no and thank you.

        I have to think of my children….I need NORMAL sized children I swear. Don’t know what happened to me but I am the shortest on both sides of my family despite my own father being 6’2″

        Reply ↓

        • Hmm okay. But keep in mind, your short status makes your kids at super high risk for short status regardless of who you marry. I know lotsa folks is trynna beat the odds lolol but…it’s already a done deal. Shoot, I think I am liable to pop out some short kids my damn self….

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  136. As a 5’7″ man I’m on the lesser side of the average height boundary. I’m perfectly okay with admitting my jealousy towards taller men and the advantage that they (seem to) have in the dating pool, but I also don’t have a huge problem with women having a height preference. We all have preferences. Do you, boo-boo. My problem with certain women with height preferences stems from one place in particular: the women who allow their preference to be defined by how they look in heels.

    Maybe I’m underestimating the amount of time women spend in them, but I don’t see why something that you wear should be such a limiting factor in the men you prefer. This might be a crude comparison, but that’s like a man who has a skin complexion preference towards the lighter-toned sistas not dating a woman with mocha skin because she looks darker with sunglass on.

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    • Yeah….I feel you on this one. In the realm of this discussion, heels are basically height-weave. Something that is meant to enhance what’s not there.

      This is what those arguments sound like to me:

      “Ooh, I want a man that is 6 inches taller than I am during the 10-25 percent of our time together when I’m NOT EVEN MY REAL HEIGHT.”

      WTF? That’s the male equivalent of a man saying, “I want a woman that can ride me if I was taking Extenze”…..

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  137. This appears to be the never-ending saga when it comes to dating. Men point out women’s preferences and requirements, women respond with, “it’s what I like” and justify their preferences/requirements when in actuality no justification is needed. If you require/desire a man 5′ 11″ or taller, I think that’s perfectly fine as long as you are comfortable with a shallow dating pool to choose from. This applies to any preferences you hold steadfast to. I’ve noticed if you tell a person to relax their standards it’s received as you’re telling them to settle. I don’t quite agree with choosing your mate with a stronger emphasis on character rather than one who’s going to make others envy you when you’re out and your neighbors hear your name when you’re in as settling but again, there’s nothing wrong with having standards and physical requirements. If you’re 42 and single, both men and women, and it’s partially due to you only accepting certain potential suitors then own it and be happy about it because your preferences probably played a strong part in that.

    (insert standard comment analogy here)
    The unemployed person who refuses to take a job that doesn’t meet their standards (not ANY job, but a decent job that might pay a little less or be a little less prestigious, etc.) can’t really complain about being broke, can they? If they do I’m sure the people around them might think, “you don’t really mind being broke because if you did you would do what you have to and consider taking that less prestigious job and make a nice career out of it.”

    I wish everyone the best in their search for Mr. and Ms. Right whether you are casting a net or using a branch with string and a worm.

    and because it will probably be wondered, I am 5′ 9,” so I am considered a short dude by most. I have dated women who range in height from 5′ 2″ to 5″ 11″ and women who are fit like a track star to almost built like a lineman. I only have one true requirement/preference when dating and that is that the lady is either Black or Latino…because they are, imo, the most beautiful women on the planet. That’s where my “superficialness” comes into play…call me shallow, I own it and I’m fine with it.

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  138. This comment will be kind of rambling and off topic, but this is an issue near and dear to my heart, so here it goes…As a legitimately tall woman (at least I think so…based on the heights of some of the VSS’s I noticed yesterday, I might be incredibly average at 5’11″) with a tall husband (6’5″), who is 8 weeks away from the arrival of our first child (a baby girl). This has been something that people have mentioned to us quite a bit throughout our pregnancy.

    We have had people lament that we are not having a boy because he would of course be proficient in some sport. To this, I typically replied that Andre Leon Talley is 6’6″, so height isn’t a guarantee of a boy being an athlete (to which I have received a few side-eyes). My HS basketball coach actually said to me, “I hope your daughter is tall, but you really don’t want a Brittney Griner.”

    Although those comments have somewhat annoyed me, I can admit that both my husband and I have mentioned hoping that our daughter is tall, but not so tall that her finding a mate is difficult for her. I have never dated a man shorter than myself, or even one under 6’2″, so why would I tell my daughter that she should consider men shorter than herself when her father finally decides to let her date? With that said, all you short women find you a nice, short-to-average man, have short-to-average height daughters and tell them to find a man like daddy. That way, my daughter will not look like she kidnapped a elementary school boy in her prom pictures.

    Actually, for all we know we could have a short daughter; genetics are funny like that. In which case, short women, do what thou whilst…

    Reply ↓

    • “To this, I typically replied that Andre Leon Talley is 6’6?, so height isn’t a guarantee of a boy being an athlete”

      LMAO!! That’s IT.

      Reply ↓

    • “That way, my daughter will not look like she kidnapped a elementary school boy in her prom pictures.”

      LOLOL

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  139. I’m am a VSB…..A very short brotha. Not a 5’9 (really average put precieved short) guy. I mean, I am legitimately short at 5’7. I am pro-choice; If a woman, be she 4’11 or 11’4, wants a tall man, that is her choice. Tall women and short men should let em live.

    In my experience, women have height requirements/preferences in the abstract. But put a actual attactive, personable, charasmatic short guy in front of them, their requirements, belts, panties, etc. get “loosed.” And men are the same way. I know plenty of guys that swear they had to have a Beyonce, but end up with Yadon’tsay–who is kinda cute, sorta um….big boned, and the greastest thing for them.

    My wife’s good friend has a very strict height requirement, except for actual guys that try to holla. She will routinely down random guys passing as being too short; guys who haven’t even looked her way or tried to holla. Yet when she got chatted up by a very cool co-worker of mine who is shorter than me and built like a hedge-hog, she pulled me to the side to ask about his relationship status. Go figure.

    I really don’t see and never experienced height discrimination. I’m not saying it doesn’t exist–I just never saw it. And all my past girlfriends were my height or taller; the tallest being a 5’10 volleyball player. I’ve only dated one girl that was shorter than me—a 5 footer I ended up marrying.

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    • “I know plenty of guys that swear they had to have a Beyonce, but end up with Yadon’tsay–who is kinda cute, sorta um….big boned, and the greastest thing for them.”

      LMAO!! You sir have made my morning.

      Reply ↓

    • I’m 5’7” too amigo, I’d hardly say that we’re short but then again I studied in Mexico (where if I stood on a public bus, my head would brush the ceiling)!

      Seriously though, I’m with you. Height requirements are usually all talk at best and at worse its just blocking you from dating a decent guy. Would any woman seriously turn down dating the well adjusted man with a well paying job and a good relationship with his parents just because he was 2” shorter than her in heels?

      If so, I don’t think the well-adjusted guy really lost out all that much anyway!

      Reply ↓

    • “In my experience, women have height requirements/preferences in the abstract. But put a actual attactive, personable, charasmatic short guy in front of them, their requirements, belts, panties, etc. get “loosed.””

      I can agree with this. I’ve seen it happen.

      Reply ↓

      • “But put a actual attactive, personable, charasmatic short guy in front of them, their requirements, belts, panties, etc. get “loosed.”””

        POW!!!!

        Reply ↓

    • It’s cuz you can’t change your height. You are dealt what you’re dealt. Itty Bitty Titty chicks can get implants. Overweight folks can lose weight. But short folks can’t get taller. it seems almost unfair. but it makes great discussion fodder lol.

      Reply ↓

    • The height discussion can hit a sensitive nerve for dudes…

      We’ve grown up wanting to be like Mike Jordan, not Mike Dukakis.

      Reply ↓

  141. “Do you think women are justified in feeling this way, or is the hypocrisy making you gag?”

    I’m really big on personal preference when it comes to sexual attraction. I know from experience that what I might find attractive, another woman would not. But the height preferences of most women just make no sense to me unless a woman is over 6ft tall. When I hear of women that are 5″6′ to 5″11′ without heels only desiring taller than them men, I wonder if they’re excluded these men because they feel having a short man will make them look desperate or diminished in the eyes of their peers & others.

    While height is used a sign reproductive viability & dominate genes by many that follow evolutionary psychology theories, I think they oversimplify the idea dating & mating in our current society-I just don’t think they reflect the current paradigm & gender changes that have remade our society. As a whole, yes, we are higher thinking animals with tons of civility. Yes, we are looks orientated, want to mate & breed offspring with dominate qualities. But we, or at least most of us, have learned some level of cognitive control over our baser instincts & pick our mates not just on instinctual desires alone. If we remove the physical domainate trait of height as a preference, other traits become more desiriable. Will it happen, I don’t know-people like what they like.

    I’ve dated men of varying heights & I admit to having a height limit of 5”5. I said it before-if I have to bend my knees at a complete 45 degree angle to kiss a man, I’m not going to date him but I might not exclude him. He’d have to have other qualities that attract me.

    Obsidian pointed out & it has been my experience anyway, “They all oozed CONFIDENCE, which is a proxy for social dominance, and which in turn, is a proxy for psychosexual dominance, which is the basis of GAME…Moreover, they all have “Big Man” personalities, too – they compensated for their lack of height and stature, with over the top personalities and displays of confidence, swag and social dominance…” So I at 5”7 with an expressed height limit & bad knees may attach myself to a man below my expressed height limit based on how he presented himself & if I was attracted to him.

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  142. Hi. I might be re-iterating what someone already said (didn’t read all the comments), but I don’t think we as women are hypocrites if we prefer taller men, to the exclustion of shorties as prospects.
    As Champ mentioned in the post, men do it to us all the time. hair length, skin tone, etc. And when we make a fuss about it, be it on a blog, TV talk show, radio or friendly discussion, we basically get told by the men to shut up and deal with it b/c that’s the way it is.
    So…………….igual con los enanos. Women want, like, prefer and feel secure in her choice of a taller man, as opposed to shorter. Shut up and deal with it.

    Now the 5 foot chick who thinks 5’9″ is too short for her, she is reaching. On many levels. Pun intended.
    But a 5’6″ chick who doesn’t necessarily find her 5’8″ counterpart attractive…that’s her preference.
    You wouldn’t fault the milk chocolate-skinned dude who does not find his equally-hued female counterpart attractive because he only dates lighter-skinned women. You would defend his right to a preference, albeit a slight to the woman who looks like him and could be his complement in every other way.
    Why we gotta be hypocrites? lol

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    • I could be wrong, but I think the ‘hypocrite’ label was only for shorter women who prefer men that can jump on their shoulders off straight ups.

      That said, I wonder what the required height is for a woman to not be a hypocrite.

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      • yea, like i said, i hadn’t had a chance to read all the comments yet.

        but i don’t think any woman of above-average height (if that’s over 5’4″ in the country) can be called a hypocrite for requiring any height, if dudes aren’t reprimanded for having their requirements.
        b/c a man can’t really help his height. i mean, stay off of coffee and weed as a child, yea. lol but that’s about it.

        a woman can’t help the color she was born or the natural length of her hair, except to a certain extent of proper hair care. but those are specific requirements men have for their dream woman.

        no one would hold a 5’11″ woman in contempt if she said she preferred men 5’6″ and below.
        and no one would hold a man in contempt if he says he prefers dark skinned women, to the exclusion of the lighties.

        the point is, no one wants to be made to feel inferior or not worthy because of some physical attribute they were born with. But both genders do it to each other and it seems the dudes don’t like it one tiny bit. lol

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    • “You wouldn’t fault the milk chocolate-skinned dude who does not find his equally-hued female counterpart attractive because he only dates lighter-skinned women. You would defend his right to a preference, albeit a slight to the woman who looks like him and could be his complement in every other way.”

      Google colorism. There’s borderline a crisis surrounding Black male preferences for lighter-skinned women.

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        • I ain’t mad atcha.

          I actually think that the game would be better with more forthrightness. I just wish that we could just call it like it is, acknowledge that both men and women have superficial preferences (without rationalizing them), and keep it moving.

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        • I guess the other part of what I was saying though is that people actually do criticize men for their preference, which is where I think that the charges of hypocrisy are coming from. People actually do criticize chocolate dude.

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    • You wouldn’t fault the milk chocolate-skinned dude who does not find his equally-hued female counterpart attractive because he only dates lighter-skinned women

      Yeah, actually I would.
      But then I tend not to care about skin-tone.

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  143. I have 2 questions for the VSS.

    1. Men are either tall or short. There is no in-between or average. Is it the same for women? Is there an average height for women? If there is an average height what is normal, what is tall, and what is average for a woman? Or are women only short or tall?

    2. Being that men are either tall or short does that mean men are either skinny or fat?

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    • 1. I think the average height for women in the US is 5ft 4 but I could be wrong. i think an assumed average height for women in the US is 5ft 6.

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    • There is an average for men. Most people like to ignore it with their subjective thoughts. Same with women. I keep seeing average women (5’4) calling themselves short up and down this post. I wish I were 5’4!

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    • “1. Men are either tall or short. There is no in-between or average. Is it the same for women? Is there an average height for women? If there is an average height what is normal, what is tall, and what is average for a woman? Or are women only short or tall?”

      Considering most folks are average (hence it being… average lol), there definitely is an average. Hell, that’s what we mostly see folks out with. Average mofos. But of course, only the extremes are mostly focused on. Kinda like how ya’ll ninjas only focus on dark-skinned/light-skinned ninjas and forget about us lil’ ol caramel sistas.

      *grabs kleenex in the corner*

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    • 1. I think there is an inbetween height. there’s tall, there’s short and then there’s whatever height I am. short men = 3+ inches shorter than me, and tall men = 4+ inches taller than me. Average height for women is 5’6″ last I checked?

      2. I think men come in three sizes: skinny, fat, and muscle-y. I find merits in all three kinds. I think I like the muscle-y ones the least.

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  145. This may have already been stated but I disagree with the idea that men’s preferences are based actual personal preferences while women’s are based on what their friends think. I’ve yet to hear a woman use the term “sportable” or any equivalent.

    For me height is a bonus – like when guys meet a hot chick who’s rich.

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    • >but I disagree with the idea that men’s preferences are based actual personal preferences while women’s are based on what their friends think.

      Actually it is true, from my experience. I guess a compromise would be to say that women weigh the friends’ opinions, towards mates, more heavily than to men.

      Back in college, one of the strategies commonly used was to impress the chick’s close friends (2 or 3) & if they praised you enough, their opinion would rub off on her & by the time you officially met her, you’d be a lot more well thought of (regardless of height).
      This ‘specially. worked if she was out of your league.

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      • We’ll call it a draw. That may hold a little water for the college crowd. Sizing up men (crude, I know) in the real world is a lot more black and white – crowd influenced intangibles like ‘cool’ are replaced with things like whether or not he lives on a friend’s couch.

        If we really like or dislike a guy, we’ll totally ignore what our friends think.

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  146. “Anyway, people of VSB.com, how do you feel about the completely illogical height preferences phenomenon? Do you think women are justified in feeling this way, or is the hypocrisy making you gag?”

    Wait a minute! Women have illogical preferences and live life conscience free glamorously cloaked in ankle length chinchilla hypocrisy while carrying a “go green” grocery bag of justification?!?!!

    Noooo. That can’t be. Not women.

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  147. So what I’m getting from reading the comments today is that 5′-9″ guys are considered short? What in the world? That’s crazy to me. I’m 5′-4″ so that’s probably why I consider anyone over 5′-6″ to be tall. I guess 6′ is the magic number for guys to consider themselves tall? I haven’t tried one out for size, but I’ve done some projections and I think a 6′ guy might be too tall for me.

    As for me, as long as you’re not shorter than me, I’m OK. My ex and I were the same height – I was taller than him when I wore heels. It was a bit annoying on the rare occasion that I was reminded about it but the annoyance was fleeting, and besides, there were bigger fish to fry…

    When it comes to the height preference thing, I think really tall men with really short women look ridiculous. Really tall women with really short men look ridiculous as well, but that’s pretty rare right? I do feel the woman should be shorter or at most the same height as the man. It’s not a very modern, 21st century thing to say and I wish I didn’t feel that way, but I guess most people agree otherwise today’s post and many of the comments would be moot.

    One thing’s for sure, As a woman, I’m happy with my height. All my taller girlfriends complain about their problems finding a guy with suitable height, while the shorter ladies have a wider range to play with :D

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    • Oh, I should say #noshotsfired to all really tall/really short couple combinations out there, I was just trying to promote my vision of a more equitable height distribution in couples … so carry on, be happy, do you…

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  148. I say without having read all the comments-It don’t matter ‘cuz we all the same size laying down.

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  149. I’m 5’6″. As I’ve repeated, I don’t care if the guy is taller than me. I DO care if he minds if I’m taller than him.

    Story time: we’re out playing pool, he asks me who’s taller, him or me. I don’t care. Then he asks the waitress as she walks by. I say I’m 5’6″. He says he’s 5’6″. She looks at us, says “You’re the same height”, then adds “I’m 5’9″”

    I fall over laughing.

    The man had issues: after scratching twice, he proclaimed that I wasn’t winning, because he had lost by scratching, so I wasn’t beating him. Any man could have had that attitude.

    Both of my boyfriends were about 6 feet tall. I didn’t pick them for their height. Personality is too important to me. And I don’t care what I look like when I’m with a dude because I’m not looking at us. I’m a part of the us.

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  150. I’m 4’10″. I’m definitely not looking for anyone shorter than me or really anywhere near my height. But I also don’t like men who are too tall – just makes me feel uncomfortable.
    And where are people getting this stuff about tall men love short women….not in my experience!

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  151. I’m 5’3” and I do prefer tall guys, BUT all of the guys I’ve dated have been 5’4”-5’7” and I don’t really care. I don’t really like wearing high heels and dating shorter guys gives me reason not too. Oh I went out on two dates with a guy who was at least 6’0” or a little more and he seemed crazy (crazy being he was too emotional for me and writing stuff on FB about how he’d fallen for me after TWO dates.)

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  152. i don’t think tall guys like “short” women like I’ve seen said in a lot of the comments. I think this is an issue of perception.

    1. Clearly, women prefer taller men.
    2. Most couples are likely within a few inches of each other.
    3. The average male height compared to average female height is such that an above average height men when matched with even average height women immediately engenders a “Wow he’s much taller than her” because when it comes to this discussion, we look at the absolute height of the couple, rather than their deviations from the mean.

    So if you eliminate all couples matching #2, say 70-80% of them and you take #1 with the knowledge that we are more likely to notice and remember interesting things (eg we notice striking height differences more than not), we end up with a perception that tall guys prefer shorter women..

    Another way to look at this, instead of comparing the absolute height of couples, we compared where they stand on the bell curve for both sexes, I bet we’ll find that the majority match each other on the curve. (ie a 56 or 78 percentile height woman is likely with a similar percentile man).

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  153. “Do you think women are justified in feeling this way, or is the hypocrisy making you gag?”

    Okay you know I can understand why certain females in the 5’8 and taller range would be adamant about their height requirements in a man but for someone like myself who is 5.6 I don’t really give a flying fcuk, my ex husband is 5.5. 1/2 and when we used to go out (me in my 3-4 inch heels), he LOVED THAT SHYTE!! although we looked like katie holmes and tom cruise standing next to each other. *giggle*

    My things is this now that I am dating when I meet a dude who is my height or maybe a inch or 2 taller I am quick to let him know “look I wear heels at least 4inches I don’t have a problem if you don’t”

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    • “My things is this now that I am dating when I meet a dude who is my height or maybe a inch or 2 taller I am quick to let him know “look I wear heels at least 4inches I don’t have a problem if you don’t”

      I applaud you as I think your attitude towards this is perfect. I recently went out with someone who used this exact approach. As a 5’8″ish guy, I would have no problem dating someone anywhere between 4’6″ and 6’9″ as long as we get along and there’s chemistry. Damn what anyone else thinks if she and I are happy together!

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  154. How tall is too tall?

    And if height is such a deal breaker why do so many women love (the artist formerly then subsequently known as) Prince?

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  155. i just wrong dialed jhu y’all.

    *home sick for baltimore*

    *wipes tear*

    ladies…height be dayumd…just keep that booty poppin

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  156. Some observations

    I’m beginning to believe that a lot of this short women/women in general only wanting a tall dude is somewhat overblown. Most of the women on this site have, in general, fairly reasonable preferences for height in potential suitors. Where the disconnect comes in is that their preference often comes across like it’s a hard line. Like ” I want a man that is X% taller than me and eff any dude that is shorter ” . My experience is that with women that I have dated that are tall/taller than me there was some x-factor in us hooking up. Most of the time there was some other characteristic that they saw in me that made them put the height requirement on the backburner.

    There seems some confusion from men about how heelgame comes into play when assessing the height of a man. It can be somewhat frustrating that the size of these heels can completely cancel out what would normally be a comfortable height difference. Adding to that is the lack of male equivalent. The closest I could come up with is a somewhat pudgy dude saying he doesn’t want to date a thick(1990′s definition)chick because he occasionally likes to wear Under Armour and thinks their physiques wont match.

    Not stated as much is the notion that some women feel protected being around a taller/ larger man. While I’m hesitant to tell someone how they feel is wrong, most men ,especially average-short men, are gonna give the side-eye to that statement. Coming up most men have probably seen bigger dudes take falls to smaller dudes in some form or fashion. Jose Aldo(featherweight) isn’t gonna beat Cain Velasquez(heavyweight) but it’s a good chance he could beat Frankie Edgar(lightweight).

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    • Agreed. The heelgame and security arguments are red herrings, canards and general BS. Women should be free to admit they like tall men because….they like tall men. The fact that they like it is justification enough. No need to justify it with nonsensical arguments about footwear.

      The heel argument is like me saying I love brown belts….so I can’t date darkskinned girls because their blue black arses would clash with my brown belt. I love my brown belts and I’ll be damned if I’ll stop wearing them—but I can’t…I mean I absolutely can not be seen rocking a brown belt with a dark skinned chick at the sime time. Like wearing white before easter, it’s a no go.

      As for securtity, I know for a fact that often the most dangerous ninja in the club is the 5’8 stocky dude. I’ve seen over 6 footers get debo’d by the aforementioned dude.

      I think the reality, as champ mentioned, is that folks (at least up until a certain age) don’t want to be with someone their friends will clown them about. Guys clown about weight, reputation, etc. Girls clown about height, financial status, corniness level, etc.

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      • “The heelgame and security arguments are red herrings, canards and general BS.”

        Its just as much BS as any of our preferences.

        Why do guys like women with a large chest? Does that make them breasfeed better? o_0

        What about a large bottom? Does a bigger one function better?

        Its all about looks at the end of the day.

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        • Why do guys like women with a large chest? Does that make them breasfeed better? o_0

          Yeah actually that’s not far from the truth.
          I gotta make sure my kids have enough to eat.

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  157. As a 5’11 (BARE FOOT) woman and have been sometimes called an Amazon. I would have to say that as I have gotten older height does matter to me. I have dated shorter men and did feel a little self conscious. When I date men my height or a few inches taller I feel more inclined to wear flat shoes, which sometimes is not remotely attractive in certain settings. Most of my friends are 5’5 or shorter and well its easier for them to find someone closer to their height than me.

    Recently, I have dated someone who is 6’3 and I like that I can wear heels and feel comfortable with almost looking him eye to eye. It does kinda make me feel better that I have to look up to kiss him.

    My dad is 6’4 and my mom is 5’11 so I was going to be tall either way unless major recessive genes were going to kick in.

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  158. I am around 5’2, and I have never had a height requirement because most guys are taller than me. However, I can’t say that I have ever dated a guy shorter than 5’10. Never planned it that way though.

    Now, I have recently turned away an advance from a guy who was probably 5’3. I didn’t think about why I turned him away when I did it. I suppose it was just a natural reaction. But if I had to answer why, the answer would be my fear that he couldn’t protect me…or that me wearing wedges would make me the male in the relationship. I mean, these streets are dangerous. I can’t be out here fighting. I’m a lady.

    I sympathize with the short guys, but most everyone falls short in someway to somebody. I’ve been passed over for the lady with the big butt and chest on occasion…gives me the summertime blues, but do you see me out here crying about it? Not all the time you don’t. I take what I’ve got, and I do what I can.

    Fret not little one…you’ll get your comeuppance. The only thing worse than being a short guy, is being a short, angry guy.

    XOXO
    Watch out for the curb.

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      • Speaking of protection, how many times have you been in a situation where the man you were with had to protect you?

        Also, Floyd Mayweather is 5’6. Do you think he would be able to protect you?

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        • Once. And once is more than enough.

          Now Mayweather may protect me, but I hear he may beat me up too (allegedly). Plus, I don’t think 5’6 is short for me.

          I’m sure a short guy can protect me, but I can’t say that I would assume he would. I can’t pretend that I wouldn’t carry some degree of anxiety when we’re in a crowd or sketchy situations. It may not be a valid fear…but a fear nonetheless.

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          • I was about to weigh in with the short guy making sure you’re never in a “sketchy situation” (because he knows he can’t protect you) but you squashed my thought with the “It may not be a valid fear…but a fear nonetheless.” line.

            So I guess I won’t.

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  159. The lurking has ended.
    I’m 6’3 270lbs, and i’ve dated 5’11 and 5’2 but my personal opinion is that i don’t want to feel like i’m kidnapping my woman when people see me and my woman out in public, nor do i want her big enough to fit in my pocket. I’m already gonna walk faster than her so it looks like I’m dragging her around. No Bueno. I prefer the 5’7 and up woman but where i’m located, that may be a bit hard to come by.

    I’m Gone!

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  160. I had a great comment, but accidentally hit the wrong button and reloaded the got damn page which erased my entire comment. I’m certainly by all accounts, NOT pleased as I was pretty much about to hit submit before that occured. >;( Anyway, the below isnt what I was going to add, but I feel it needs to be stated.

    Letter To The Fellas Commenting or Lurking:
    Anyone [men/VSBs] taking what the VSS’s on here are saying today and yesterday with anything more than just a half a grain of salt, is in SERIOUS trouble. I’ve skimmed some of these comments and there are some hurt n*ggaz in here today…as well as yesterday.
    Gentlemen, trust me when I say this: They do not know that of which they speak, and to take any of their rhetoric seriously will result in your own social demise. Women will talk wide, but they walk in a completely different stride.

    You do not need height, muscles, a solid hairline, a 10 foot d*ck….sh*t in many cases you don’t even need a JOB (much less a legal one) to bag many a chick. Their ‘lists of qualifications(physical or otherwise)’ is the equivalent of a figurehead. It serves no other purpose other than to look as if some sort of standards are in place, but in reality, it has absolutely no functionality and serves absolutely no purpose. None. Zero. Zip.

    The whole notion of ‘compromise’(a term you will regularly hear from the fairer sex) is tom foolery because that term is a frail attempt to justify their undeniable attraction (one which they find inexplicable) to a man that does not nearly meet half the qualifications on their ‘list of standards/desires/wants/needs, etc’. Why? Because the list was shyt to begin with. How else can one explain away to HERself and counterparts that the n*gga she is with falls significantly short(no pun) of her ‘standards’?
    ‘Compromise’ is the scapegoat terminology or attempted self pacifying logic used in an effort to explain away her lack of self understanding regarding what makes her tick and tock in her mate selection.

    So I implore my brothas out there, do not rest your self esteem on the cluck fcukery that has been the female commentary these last two days. -That is all.

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    • LMAO.

      For real tho. If I am over the height of 5’6″ and you’re not, that’s a problem. There ARE real boundaries women have about this height thing. Figuring out those boundaries for each woman is a different story. I guess you guys would actually have to PUT IN SOME EFFORT AND GET TO KNOW US to find out. Imagine that!

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      • Nonsense. All of these superficial ‘requirements’ are surmountable. You and many of your cohorts simply do not understand your own nature. You are more than capable and willing to drop the drawz for a man that doesnt ‘measure up’ IF he is able to successfully appeal to most of your most innate and carnal senses(s*xually and otherwise). That will always trump great/poor resumes, criteria lists and any other subscribed socialized way of thinking.

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        • Even if we were willing to the drop the drawz (and I have for a dude shorter than me) this does NOT negate the fact that I do and always will find taller men more attractive, just on GP. I just don’t want there to be any confusion here that we are gonna ignore some fine tall dude for some shorter dude just cuz he knows how to make us laugh. Sure we might laugh at your jokes, we may even love you, but you ain’t changing basic principles of what we find physically attractive. And, honestly to some extent, there is a real boundary with women and some of them (the shallow ones, not me!) will not overcome this. But ya’ll (short men) shouldn’t want them types of chicks anyway.

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          • @Liz – “Even if we were willing to the drop the drawz (and I have for a dude shorter than me)….”

            Shhhhhhh….huhyomouf. You need not say anymore, as the remainder of your comment beyond that point was just bad filler. :-)
            You and every woman on here as well as in the real world have done exactly what you have acknowledged above,..which is gone contrary to your ‘list of required standards’.
            No one disputes that generally, women list height as an attractive quality in a mate. But there goes that word again, “list”. And it should be very clear by now how reliable a woman’s ‘list’ is in seeking mates.
            It doesnt matter what women find physically attractive according to ill conceived ‘basic principality’ you reference. All that matters is what appeals to Ms. V@gina, and last time I checked, it had lips and no EYES.

            As much as women have heralded from the mountaintops of VSS land and the real world about how much the following are the most unappealing…..
            Diva dudes stay diggin’ in them drawz
            Jobless n*ggaz stay diggin in them drawz
            GED holdin n*ggaz stay diggin in them drawz
            Jailbird block huggin n*ggaz stay diggin in them drawz
            Short n*ggaz stay diggin in them drawz (see most of the entire rap/r&b/thesbian entertainment industry as most fall significantly short of 6ft tall).

            In fact, the only n*ggaz that I see having a difficult time getting close enough to the drawz to merely catch as much of a whiff are the n*ggaz that actually meet damn near every criteria on ‘The Lists’. And them n*ggaz dry d*cking it hard. Why? Because despite meeting the qualifications on ‘The List’, they inherently lack what makes your cootie go ga-ga. And it aint height, big hands or big feet. Those men simply fail to appeal to the organ that is connected to your heart…….because they lack other NON PHYSICAL traits and characteristics (i.e personality, confidence etc) that sets the southern forest fire ablaze.
            Men, own yourself, and the women will yearn for you. Again, do not listen to the cluck fest today because it will lead you astray.

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        • On a real note, SoBo make a true statement which only applies to lonely, desperate women with low self esteem. I know too many women who will hold their ground and self stimulate until they get the objectives met. Don’t confuse a booty call with an attempt to establish a long term relationship.

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    • I’m cosigning Sobo as soon as Classy comes back to give me a boost! Who put these high ass tables in here anyway?

      Reply ↓

    • only 2 days? I was thinking more like…anytime. on blogs. In books. In regard to relationships. LOL! (I kid)

      I do cringe and die a little inside every time I read some guy on a blog (particularly this one) lamenting his sorrows for some woman’s ill and untruthful standard in regard to a relationship.

      What they eat, shouldn’t make you ish. Hov.

      Get your money up and you can have whatever (type) of woman you want and do damn near whatever you desire. Focus on being a better you and they will come.

      I’m gonna write a post for these dudes during ‘man week’ on my blog….

      Bond. BlkBond.

      Reply ↓

        • Aye! Aye! Yo, did you see Gucci threw a girl out his car!?!?! First the Ice cream tattoo…. (BURR!!) then he throws the girls out the car….

          I check the site daily, just don’t always comment–I read the fine print…

          I’ve been crazy busy also….I’ll probably post something friday, I’m off tomorrow…

          Bond.

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    • @Mr. SoBo

      I joked in my comments but this is kind of what I was getting at. I’m really surprised so many guys take this personal. The height issue is something I’ve never had to deal with. I thought more issues with getting their weight up than height. Just like you I’ve seen women give play to all types of lames so stressing about being a NORMAL height is crazy. You dudes are trying to rationalize chic logic are there is no logic in chic logic.

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    • I actually agree with most of what you are saying here, especially If this is speaking in generalizations (cuz i definitely know some chicks that will not “compromise”). There are some things I will not compromise on, but I could see how the superficial things for any woman could fall by the wayside if the right circumstances presented themselves.

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    • I like how SoBo came up in here like a O.G. and c-walked all up on this thread. These comments were gonna have these cats out here taking growing pills, doing HGH and doing mad stretching just be taller…

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  161. Without reading any of the comments of today’s thread and most of the comments in yesterday’s…I will say a couple things

    First…as a woman who is 5’10″ and prefers to date taller men, it P’s me off when I hear women who are 5’1″ talkin about how they can’t date men over 6′. Particularly when their logic is so that they can “look up to him in heels”. I wanna wear heels to dangnabit and I can’t do that with the under-6′ men your selfish butts left in the dating pool.
    Irrational, selfish and superficial, I know. But I think you midget chicks need to stay in your lane…

    Second, I’ve recently started to date a guy that’s a lil shorter than me. And I don’t know if it’s because I’ve grown up and just gotten over the superficiality of dating or if I’ve just grown up and realized I’m getting too old to be so picky, but I’m glad I did. Cause I’d have missed out.
    And that’s the point I wanna stress. Not just with height, but in general, our physical requirements limit us so much and we wonder why we can’t find a worthy man. Because we’ve already quite literally (in this case) overlooked them all.

    Plus let’s be realistic…how many dates will you be on, standing the entire time? And how many 6″ heels do you own that you want to stand in for an entire evening? It’s just stupid…

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    • @Imperfect – ” It’s just stupid…”

      And stupid is as stupid does. I cosign your commentary, and applaud your emancipation from ‘illogical slavery’.

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  162. This should be the topic for the next IRL event. All the tall women who are looking for tall men. Also for the shorter women wear your high heels and may the best group win.

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  163. Hey, VSB!

    I know I’m like 40 hours late, but I had to comment. I’m barely hitting 5’2″. Short is not fun as a woman. Especially when I feeeeel tall.

    1) Alterations!
    2) Battles with adjustable chairs/seats. If you have a 2007 Jetta, then you know what I’m talking about.
    3) Long-sleeve sweaters are always too long in the arms. Who wants to pay to get their sleeve altered? And the last time I saw a sweater with rolled-up sleeves was on Denise Huxtable – cool then, not now.
    4) Step ladders or simply hopping up on the kitchen counter like my country self
    5) Hearing the comment, “Oh, wow! I didn’t know you were that tiny without heels.” I’m a grown woman, not a doll. Why even comment?

    So what short woman wants a shortie dude to add to all her madness?

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    • Well, I’m going to be extra late and comment just to tell you I feel your pain. I’m not quite 5’1 and stay losing because:
      a) I can’t wear petite clothes because of my hips and;
      b) I hate that look of amusement get when I take off my stilletos and drop 4.5 inches closer to the ground.

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    • Girl, yes. It’s worse when your feet dangle from chairs like you’re some sort of doll. Chile, not even….. Also, I HATE the term “fun-sized”. Um, wut? Yeah, I might be fun-sized, but I’ll hurt your regular-sized feelings. Don’t play me. You don’t EVEN want none. #TruFax

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      • The term fun-sized is repulsive to me too! What the bleep do I look like, a friggin’ candy bar? Imma break you off a piece, but I promise it won’t be a Kit Kat bar. *in my Whitley Gilbert voice* “relax, relate, release.”

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  164. I can attest to being one of those “shorter” girls who like men 6′ and taller. Being 5’6 and having a fond liking for 4″ and higher heels I think it only makes sense plus it makes me feel more feminine, personally. Not to say that I would totally dismiss a man because he doesn’t meet that mark but it’s just a personal preference, no different than a man not dating a girl because she doesn’t have a big enough ass or boobs. Don’t act like they don’t do that!

    But I have dated guys that have been around 5’9, 5’10 in past. Two to be exact. The rest were all at least 6’3. Seeing as I’m usually around 5’10 and taller when I’m out in public in my heels I don’t see why it’s wrong for me to prefer a man who is taller!

    On the other hand I do have this one friend who is like 5’1. This girl got the nerve to be talking about she only likes guys that are over 6′ tall. Like, really scrunching up her face at dudes who don’t meet that requirement as if they aren’t perfectly capable of scrunching their faces back up at her like “ew you’re a midget.” Last few dudes she dealt with were like 6’4. I would be looking at her like you look like a damn fool standing next to these giants. I mean let’s be serious here, can they even fit in the same frame of a photograph if they are both standing up straight without having to zoom way the f out? I’m just saying…

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    • Unless you’re a Bond Girl, you probably aren’t spending too much time running around with your man in 4″ heels. The heel pretense has to go.

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      • Unless you’re a Bond Girl, you probably aren’t spending too much time running around with your man in 4? heels. The heel pretense has to go.

        Precisely. You don’t need heels where it counts, in the sheets.

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  165. I’m 5’9…I think it’s okay if I want someone my height or a little bit taller. It is irritating to hear/read petite/average height women complain about a man’s height. If you’re 5’1 and your man is 5’6, that is a significant height difference! I would love to date a man 5 inches taller than me…but since only a scarce amount of men even reach 6’0, I’ll take eye to eye.

    However, I have had a few crushes on men shorter than me. It’s all about their smile, intelligence and personality. If they are comfortable with the height difference, we can work it out. But I will draw the line at them needing a stepping stool to kiss me!

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    • *inhales deeply in nostrils*
      *exhales in satisfaction* Ahhhh……ya’ll smell that?
      Thats the delightful fragrance of intelligence present in this comment. Love it.

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    • I get it. I understand that a woman has an idea in her head about the guy of her dreams, usually that involves a many who is bigger and stronger. I get that. I mean, having hard guidelines seems over the top but I get it. But guys have preferences as well (well, some at least). It just seems a little funny becuase at least black men seem to be pretty forgiving, when it comes to their own standards. For the most part black guys will work with overweight women, women who don’t have a lot of hair, really if we’re honest about it, they will deal with women that most other men in society will not. It’s just interesting that it seems like the favor isn’t being returned, but then they’ll say “there are no good black men.” Truth is that there are more single black women in the USA than any other group. Yet, they may be the pickiest group. That’s fine, but don’t throw attitude when you see black guys with white women, hispanic women, asian women. Not trying to offend anyone, but this is real rap.

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  167. I am going to miss this blog. On Monday, I am starting a new job and my cubicle does not have a computer with “appropriate internet access”. ::cue the sad face::

    In regards to today’s post:
    I am not a picky woman. I think it was because I was raised by my grandmother, during those important pre-teen years of my life, because I have a “don’t care for the extra” mentality that a lot of old folks possess. With that being said, I truly do not care if the man is a dwarf (the word ‘midget’ is offensive to the little people. as if the word ‘dwarf’ is even better), as long as he has a functioning set of gentalia, a job and he doesn’t have the propensity of beating or cheating on his woman, I am a-okay.

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  168. I know I’m super late, but figured I’d break into the commenting on VSB with this thread that speaks to me. I haven’t read all 1100 comments, but figured I’d add my piece. As a man who is 5’7″, it used to bother me on end to always hear of the height requirements. That is until I realized and accepted I’m blessed how I am created and can’t change it. Now, if a woman has the height thing, who cares!!! Move on.

    My feeling is this: If you come across a person who has the height (or any other) requirements and you don’t fit, then kindly dispose of the situation and move on to the next! Simple as that. Besides, why continue pursuing a situation with a strike against you? It makes no sense to me. Life is too short (no pun intended) to lose sleep over a woman who won’t date you simply because of the fact that on your vertical aesthetic test, you come up “challenged”. Just be comfortable and confident in self, the rest will follow. I’ve had the pleasure of dating women 4’10 – 5’10 (haven’t broken 6 ft yet but I’m open!) and it really wasn’t made a big deal except once, and I’ve vowed to not make that foolish mistake again.

    To Champ’s original question: Hypocrisy? Perhaps, if they ever complain about a guy not talking to them for a specific reason (skin tone, weight, lack of ASSets, etc). If they don’t, then its not.

    Great forum, looking forward to replying a lot more often.

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  169. As height isn’t my problem, I don’t take offense to the height requirement. It just happens to be one of many things that people do that doesn’t make sense. Vote for Bush twice, build houses in areas known to have mudslides, etc. Now if a post is dedicated to discrimination against skinny dudes, then I have an issue. lol

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  170. HAD to leave google reader to see the comments on this! My girls and I and a few of my guy friends in particular talk about the QUITE a bit! I am on of those sistas! Not even gonna lie! I’m 5’1″ and I love a man who 6ft or taller that being said I think my ex was about 5’10 ish and that was quite fine by me. I have used (and believed it when I said it) that I feel safer line a time or two but I will say it is NOT because of what I think people will say about my man really it is solely based on my set of physical preferences. I equate height on the same plane as nice eyes or a nice smile. I think men need to get over it though just like a brother who only what a “redbone” or a “big booty judy” or a “chocolate” girl. It’s a preference! Some guys see long hair blowing in the wind and they notice, I see a tall guy over a crowd I notice. I definitely wouldn’t pass on a guy I think is great just because of some inches but I also would not approach/take notice of a guy who’s short (to me 5’5′ and under). So if you see me with a short guy in 20 years he probably approached me after I looked right past him!

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    • @Ni’Cole – “So if you see me with a short guy in 20 years he probably approached me after I looked right past him!”

      Either that, or you just got in where you fit in once all the tall guys you preferred dating moved on because they didnt want to ‘compromise’ their future gene pool with your 5’1″ genes, and instead opted for the taller sistah that would more likely produce taller offspring.
      No shots fired, just going off your hypothetical above.
      Something to think about though.

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      • Right. It’s late as hell, and my eyes hurt, but I just had to cosign. There is something faulty about dismissing people with the same traits you have; if the object of your affection felt the same way, they wouldn’t want you.

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  171. Wow…I’m new to this blog (love it btw), but this convo is hilarious. A lot of great points have been made though. Don’t think I can think of anything else to add. I couldn’t even get halfway through these comments and I’ve been reading for hours (exhausting). How the hell do so many people comment in such a short time period?! Sheesh

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  172. I myself am 6′ tall. This has always presented a challenge when dating. Most of the guys I have dated were my height or shorter. Although I would LOVE a 6′+ man, it’s always the midgets that grabbed them or they were interested in. What is strange is that I’ve always attracted short men, it’s like they have this “I wanna climb you” thing going on and that’s just so strange.

    The shortest I’ve ever dated was 5’7, there was one 5’3 cutie in college who would always say if he was 6 feet he’d wear me out. It was so cute, he came exactly to my boobs.

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  174. The board has been on ‘roids lately.

    #winning

    I’m happy for VSB….it would be nice to see a VSS(if y’all got one) and how that would differ from the original VSB.

    I also wonder if “You are my rib” would be a common meme between the two. Haha

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  175. Man, ya’ll have some real issues with this height issue. I’m 5’11″ and most women I’ve been involved with (until now) have been close to eye level, with or without heels. I think this newest woman is excited to be able to rock her highest heels when we go out.

    I’ve never stepped to a “tall” woman b/c I haven’t found one I was particularly attracted to.

    I’ve learned there things I can’t change: skin tone, face, height, etc. Too many people out here to get hung up on one person’s preferences. Thank Yahweh for DC.

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  176. Maybe someone will hear me this time when I say it….I’m a short guy. I have preferences as well. For example, I don’t think I can date: overweight women, lesbians of any type/form, women with kids (exceptions can be made here, depending on the quality of the woman), or women who are unemployed without legit reason.

    But see what I did there? All of those things are/were things that can be CONTROLLED by the woman or are WITHIN HER MEANS. As Twism said WAY upthread….There ain’t no heel, magic powder, drug, or Barry Bonds steroid that can get me from 5’7″ to the 6’1 I need to be at in order to be considered good enough for a woman TO GET TO KNOW.

    A woman saying she doesn’t like short men? Hell yeah, I’m gonna be pissed initially because that often automatically excludes my 5’7″ ass, but it is a preference, so I can’t be too mad.

    However, I think my preferences would lead me to an overall better QUALITY of woman. A lot of women that are on this tall/short thing are just caught up in aesthetics, since that is the only deciding factor between a 5’7″ man and a 6’4″ man assuming that the woman knows nothing about either one.

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  177. Friend A (female): What do you think about Latoya saying one of her requirements is that she doesn’t date men under 6’0″.
    Friend B (a dude who’s 5’8″): One of my requirements is that I don’t date dumb b*tches.

    Priceless exchange.

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  178. This is a great post!
    An asshole is an asshole, is an asshole…..whatever the height and/or gender. I don’t lump everyone into the same category, however, most of the short men I’ve encountered DID/DO have a Napolean complex! I’m 5’3″ and my husband is 6’6″.

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  179. To all of the men under 6 Ft who have to bare the difficulties of women’s height preferences, expand your horizons. Don’t limit yourself to black women. There is more competition indeed these days. What about the many Latina, Indian and Asian women here whose numbers are increasing, many of them born here who have short fathers.

    Where I haven’t had success dating my own, I’ve had tons of success only dating Latin women. Not to say that height isn’t a big deal there and not to stereotype, but only standing at 5’6, it HASN’T been an issue with many first generation U.S. born Latinas here on the East Coast. There are benefits. Society rewards the tall. Women say they don’t want short kids. Many people also want kids with lighter complexions, nice eyes and nice hair. If you have daughters and date outside, it’ll be one less thing they have to worry about also.

    Fear not. Don’t limit yourself. As one poster said, work on your game, your education and also do not settle.

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    • You’re welcome. Remember, where women are brutally honest and put a premium on height, society also puts a premium on long natural hair, light eyes and lighter skin. I just had a daughter with a beautiful Dominican woman born here to whom I am married to. She is college educated like myself. My daughter has the lovely hair, green eyes and lighter skin like my wife. She may grow up to be short but will have the added benefit of those lovely features and a second language. My 5’6 wasn’t a big deal.

      My short fellas, don’t limit yourselves and don’t let these women’s preferences bring you down or reassess your self-worth. You’re “entitled” to everything everyone else is.

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  181. So mad I didn’t weigh in on this one. I’m 5’0″ and I don’t discriminate based on height. (Well that’s not completely true because I’d have an issue dating a guy shorter than me…but only because guys shorter than me are likely classified as “little people”. Not that there’s anything wrong with dating little people, but based on watching Little People Big World there’s a myriad of health issues and what not that come with that…anyway I digressed). I’ve dated guys as short as 5″3 1/2. (The half is due to the descrepancy between the height I think he is and the height he thinks he is.) All this reckless short man hate is part of the reason so many short dudes have those complexes they’re known for. The guy I dated has a serious chip on his shoulder because he’s been openly ridiculed all his life by women over something that he can do nothing about. Like women are down right mean to him for no reason. Because I’m such good friends with a much shorter than average short guy I hate seeing women bash short dudes. No one would think it was cool for dudes bash fat women (well some men do but it’s not cool), even though at least in theory it’s possible for a fat person to lose weight, but it’s perfectly acceptable to bash short dudes even though there’s nothing they can do about being short. Even short women can wear heels if they want to create the illusion of height. But unless a guys name is Prince they don’t even have that option.

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    • You can say that again. I never had a ‘complex’ until I hit the dating scene in my 20s and made new friends outside of my circle. The open ridicule of short men in social settings, the media and in the workforce, it’s no wonder napoleon complexes are so famous. It also doesn’t surprise me that so many men are running off to China to have their legs sawed in half to gain some inches in height. Have a bunch of young men pumping themselves full of HGH and other chemicals so they can avoid the ridicule they so often see of shorter men the world over of today. It’s okay to be a short woman, NOT a short man.

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  182. Lol. I think people on here have these ridiculous preferences because they want to have an excuse for being alone (as if to say, well I have really high standards and I don’t settle…but are your standards really realistic for you fall in the pecking order?). Unless we are talking about a major discrepancy (4+ inches), does it matter?

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  183. Think Height isn’t that important? I had limb lengthening surgery in 2008 to go from 5’7 to 5’10 and it was like night and day in the dating world for me. Three inches doesn’t seem like that big of a deal, but I get date requests and have dates at least two-three times a week with different women who I know would’ve passed me up if I were still 5’7. Best $80,000 I ever spent.

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  184. Women height obsession is ridiculous. The taller women I get yeah like the women that are like 5’10″ and up that just obvious for them to go with the taller men but women that are like in the range of 5’0″ to like 5’6″ and a lot of them want to demand and are adamant that he must be in the range of like 5’11″ to like 6’6″ or up to like 8′. Ok 8′ is just plain stupid and your chances of that are slim to none. But a guy that is 5’10″ he will still be taller than you no matter what you wear. Plus your BS argument that you always like to wear high heels. Suck a weak argument cause you aren’t going to wear your high heels every single day, 7 days a week, 24/7 and if you did maybe she should wear her high heels to bed if she like them so much lol. We all know 6, 7, 8 inch heels are not comfortable at all and then you hear women bitch when they get to the restaurant saying my feet hurt… Well no shit they will hurt, it’s your damn fault you wore your stupid high heels and why the hell should we feel bad for you for your own stupidity? Yeah then you women that complain about your feet hurting from wearing high heels get all pissy cause were not sympathetic with your complaining about your feet hurting.

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  185. I’m 6’5″ I don’t care how tall you are or ain’t. If you can grow hair from your scalp or have to go see Su Ling and them. I don’t care if you can fill out a sweater, the lady in my life has to be able to fill up my heart with joy. The bottom line fellas and ladies do the best with what you have and KEEP IT MOVING. With the millions of people in this country you can find someone that likes you for you.

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  186. “Lol. I think people on here have these ridiculous preferences because they want to have an excuse for being alone (as if to say, well I have really high standards and I don’t settle…but are your standards really realistic for you fall in the pecking order?). Unless we are talking about a major discrepancy (4+ inches), does it matter?”

    Exactly agree with you. Yup Realistic vs fantasy. So many women these days mainly coming from stupid media a lot of women have this fantasy don’t settle imagination with the “Mr. Perfect” is going to just fall into her lap. Boy she is going to be so so lonely and will be old when she realizes that she is constantly waiting, nothing happens, all her friends are married have families, and she’s like we eff come on Mr. Perfect fall into my lap. Um yeah whatever….. Never ever going to happen, then when she’s like 45 to 50 she’ll realize she should have listened to her parents and her friends that were tell her all along that Mr. Perfect doesn’t exisit and she damn well better loosen up her ” list requirements” or men will keep throwing their hands in the air and constantly say screw her she’s so not worth any effort cause she’s just going to always no matter what just always say no to every single man. Yeah women that don’t settle= lonely, extremely actually beyond extremely picky, whiney, mopey, extremely annoying, always want something type women but they don’t want to do any effin WORK. These are the type of women yeah they might be attractive on the outside but absoltuely nothing on the inside, they can’t carry on a grown up conversation blah blah blah…

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  187. First question. Are you short? The post was funny as hell. I think women make a lot of allowances for men. “Oh, it’s okay baby, you don’t have a job? I got you. Oh, what you say now, honey? You can’t pick up the check? No worries, mon. I just got paid. Say what, son? You can’t watch the kids because you have to watch the game? I got this. They half mine anyway.”

    I think women generally are very reasonable when it comes to many dating issues. Some will take the blind brother and teach him how to see. They will take the jailbird and set him free. They will take the homeless dude and show him what home really means. With all the leeway can’t we at least feel safe, look up into a man’s face like the old days and know that if something bad did happen on the road that the bully wouldn’t push our boyfriend down on the sidewalk like he’s the kid from 1st grade? I fully acknowledge my bias. I don’t apologize. I’m 5’8. A tall woman. I’m not asking for miracles just 2′ to make things interesting and stimulating.

    the Super Sistah
    http://www.thesupersistah.com

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    • I <3 you.

      I see your image, love your sense of teamwork and appreciation for the overall lackluster performance of men.

      You may have your height preference…(too pretentious?)

      :-)

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    • Letting go of all of these things to “mold” your man? We all know a lot of women like this. Says a lot about their character. I personally wouldn’t touch women like this with a 10 foot pole and know plenty of my taller brethren who would avoid a woman like this. To get respect you must give it and command it. To cut a man so much slack as you mentioned means you don’t have much respect for yourself.

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  188. 5’5 bro here with some friendly advice for the short brothas on this site. Forget about black women in North America completely! They’re way too damn picky! You think white chicks have height issues with short guys? Well let me tell you this. Sistas are a whole lot worse problem when talking about a guys height. They wet themselves for NBA superstars or any half-decent brother on BET that stands 6’0 or more. Even six feet is too short for a lot of black chicks. The NBA is the standard and I ain’t talking about Nate Robinson or Earl Boykins either. There are good lookin sisters in Europe, South America and the Middle East who’d don’t give a sh!t about a man’s height. They are smarter than that and know better not to judge a man by height value alone. Funny, It doesn’t surprise me one bit passing hords of black women on my way to and from work, whinin’ and complainin’ about white chicks and other non-black chicks stealin’ “their” black men. As if we all belong to you! All I’ve got to say to them is “DO SOMETHING ABOUT IT,” if you don’t like it. It just might do ya some good to change your attitudes about height and not expect every brother to be a Kobe, Lebron, or DWade.

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    • Agreed 100%.There are millions of Latinas in the states (whose numbers are dwarfing “sistahs” anyway), many of whom born in the states who do not have issues with height since many of them have short fathers and short family members. Don’t listen to this trash that these women are demanding (height). Marry a Latina or Asian woman, give your kids the light eyes, light skin and second language that will get them ahead of these losers complaining about height. Let them overlook the hard working shorter men and let them complain about Napoleon Complexes, Short man bitterness, and other stereotypes to the grave.

      We stand to benefit. There is NO shortage of Latin, Asian, Indian and other women who WILL date us. I know because I stand at 5’6 and have a very active dating life.

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      • WOW. Hateful much? LOL. you took it from tall women being your adversary to black women in general being the enemy. and you wonder why people think short men have napolean complexes? Race wasn’t even a problem in this convo, but you had to take it there.

        and last time i checked, latinas and asians defaulted to dark colored eyes as well. smh. who in the hell left the gate open?

        Oh, welcome and sh*t.

        PS Indian women are not dating you boo boo. Trust. LOL.

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        • Ummm yes they are. TRUST *LOL*. Come to NYC!

          The point is not that black women are the ‘adversary’, rather the rude attitude that many women take towards shorter men along with the ridicule is unnecessary .

          I’m facetiously stating that shorter men can “have options” and can also list reasons and have requirements. Doesn’t sound so nice when you list “valid” reasons for not wanting to date a group of people. The same way a woman can make fun of a shorter man with the midget jokes, make heel excuses or emphasize “Darwinian” precepts, the same case can be made against another group of people (in this case black women) who also have nasty stereotypes about them and routinely complain about “their men” dating outside when they have perfectly good options “within the race”.

          You took the bait.

          If a woman likes taller men she should say so and leave it at that. Shorter men tend to have these complexes because of the constant ridicule, underestimation and stereotyping.

          Also you are stereotyping. Latinas come in all shades, eye colors, hair colors and hair types.

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          • Sigh, of course Latinas come in all shapes and eye colors, as do most races. i know a blond haired blue eyed black man and no, he’s not albino. but typically Latinas and Asians default to darker eye colors not “light eyes”. thats not a stereotype, its a matter of genetics.

            there was no bait to be taken you really are that ignorant, obv by your followup comment.

            and no, Indian women typically are not gonna check for no black dude. they might act interested (big maybe) but trust they ain’t finna marry you. im in NYC, but not all indians are in nyc (theyre in jersey, duh). i know plenty of indian women who stay getting hounded by black men and they ain’t thinkin bout yall. you must be confrusing your desire with reality.

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            • but typically Latinas and Asians default to darker eye colors not “light eyes”.

              Umm NO. I’m a mix, 1/2 Puerto Rican. Come to Puerto Rico with that bullsh**. Plenty of Blue Eyed and Light Haired (Blonde, Red) women there (PLENTY!). I lived there for almost 10 years (in Ponce). Same in DR, Cuba, Colombia, etc. YOU are the one who is ignorant. (Lol @ “Default” – THAT was true ignorance. Are you serious???). You ARE right on Asians. Dark hair is a common trait on them so I’ll give you that.

              No one EVER said that ALL Indians are in NYC. However in NYC it is common to see Black/Indian marriages. Very, very, very common. You also ignore countries like Suriname, Guyana, French Guyana, Jamaica, Panama and Trinidad all who have HIGH Indian and Black populations who ROUTINELY mix, get married, etc. Many emigrate here to the US and will marry Black Americans.

              Please check your facts first! You DID take the bait (otherwise we wouldn’t be having this discussion lol). You read my comments at face value, but you WERE insulted (ignorant or not). This is how Short men (and sometimes Short women) feel w/the ridicule.

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                • Nope! You’re just ignorant to facts. Thanks :-) I can post sources for everything I’ve said. You’re just using hearsay or what you THINK you know. Thank YOU for trying your “best”.

                  To the point, its okay for a woman to like or prefer taller men. It is also okay for men to prefer non-black women, very black women, think women, women with bigger breasts or whatever. When you add ridicule or justify it with nonsense, it will then offend. The next time a man says, “I only date women with D cups because I want my daughters to have bigger breasts”, “You need to be this light in order to be seen with me”, or “Sorry, you need to be this thin to fit through the gate”, don’t be offended. After all, it’s just preference.

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            • Um no… LIZ YOU ARE IGNORANT.

              I’m white and LOVE black women… and latina women alike… but unless the black woman is shorter than am by several inches I usually don’t bother because there is a pervasive bigotry amongst them in regards to shorter men.

              It’s ironic. Their less reliable black men are running for women of other races… someone (a white man) shows interest in them for more than just their booty, and offers them a path to a life they wouldn’t normally have (NOT BEING RACIST, JUST REALIST, this is unfortunately still a majority white run country) and yet this great guy is giving them opportunity and affection, they spat in his face because he’s not anomalistically gargantuan in comparison to her. Rather ludicrous a mentality if you ask me…

              Still, beggars can’t be choosers. If they knock a good guy because he’s not as athletically and physically ideal as the black men they want but aren’t getting… they deserve to be alone and unhappy… and again I LOVE BALCK WOMEN… but some are ridiculous.

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      • Hey Robert, black women look at me with big time disappointment in their eyes. I see it all the time. On more than one occasion I’ve overheard nuff black women say I’m a waste of a good man because I’m good-looking with the face of a male model. Just too short for the runway or any meaningful relationship. I’ve even heard some women say, that I shouldn’t be “allowed” to have my good looks and my head belongs on a tall guy. Gee, I don’t remember cutting the head off of some poor tall guy in his sleep and switched it with mine, LOL! I guess I should blame my mom and dad for not making me ugly, LOL! I just laugh and brush off this kind of nonsense.

        I’ve got friends of all colours. We all love and care about each other and we don’t see colour. I see colour when black women give me attitude for being short. That’s right. I see and date, white, olive green, caramel, peach and any other woman of colour except black women with attitude. There are so many women of different races in this world who are miles more receptive and respectful of me than black woman have shown. The only black women who deserve mentioning are the ladies in my family, the church choir and the congregation. Like God, they don’t see height or colour.

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        • I feel your pain, or at least I did before I got married and had kids. I’ve heard the comments, felt the vibes and know exactly what you’re talking about. Short guys aren’t paranoid, it’s the way it is. It is socially acceptable at the moment to ridicule shorter guys. It’s the way it is. As I said earlier, thankfully there are other options, and you also don’t have to “settle”.

          I used to be sensitive and defensive of the black woman’s plight. The dark skin vs. light skin argument, the thick vs thin argument and so forth. That was until I experience first hand how it works. But you learn. Don’t question it, don’t fight it. You maybe will meet a wonderful black woman who would accept you for who you are, or do not hesitate to explore outside of your race.

          My daughter has wonderful light eyes and is the shade of cafe con leche with the gorgeous silky hair of my wife. With a strong education, my daughter will be unbeatable. I have no regrets for walking outside of my race. Just don’t let anyone tell you or make you feel that you are less than they are.

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  189. I’m a midget woman of 5’3″ and the only height preference I have ever had is that he be between my height and 6 ft tall.

    Shorter and he really is a midget and taller, well, I value the health of my neck. My hubs is 6 ft. or so he says. I really think he’s more like 5’10″ or something, but whatever.

    One last thing, is it just me, or are shorter men cuter on average? Most tall dudes (over 6 ft.) are kind of goofy looking.

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  190. i agree with jt. screw em. i’m with a latin woman too. let the darkies run after their tall men. their numbers are getting smaller anyway. we all know the epidemic with men looking for lighter women no one wants em and thats why they having a hard time finding a man. 5’5 male here. i dont blink 1 second if a black chick dont want me cuz i dont want em anyway

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  191. I know I’m a bit slow on the uptake here, but.. I’m 5’6 and my boyfriend is 5’10 (I’m being generous. He’s closer to 5’9.. but he’s a giant in my eyes). Immediately after we first met, I remembered him as the “short, handsome guy”. Once we went out on our first date, and then started really dating and getting serious, I stopped thinking about him as short.. Part of this has to do with the fact that I fell in love with him, but the other part has to do with just how damn fine he is. He has a perfectly sculpted body and is very well endowed. And, as a pseudo-feminist woman, I kind of like that, when I’m in heels, we see “eye to eye”, as equals.

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  192. I’m 5ft10 and just over 6ft in heels.. i can’t wrap my head, hands, or anything else for that mater around a guy who is 5’3. Imagine that for a moment……yea…see? I’m not asking for 6’2..im just asking for eye-level. Perhaps it’s my biological consciousness trying to protect the tall gene…or maybe its i just can’t imagine sleeping with a guy 6 inchess shorter than me. I know im not the only woman who does this but I try to imagine myself in certain sexual positions with guys and uh yea..it’d be quite comincal. And i like the warm feeling of a guy wrapping his arms around my shoulders and bringing me close to his chest (as opposed to me bringing him to my waist) *shrug*

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  193. This is all about preferences. You men have PLENTY OF THEM but want women to settle in this category… *go somewhere with that*

    I’m 6 ft tall and YES I would like to look a dude in the face once in a while while dating him LOL, but I am not closed to the possibility of dating someone shorter. I have done it, and in all honestly while it felt like I was being led around by by baby brother, he was a nice guy, it just didn’t work out.

    I do give these super-tall guys who go after these gnome-ish women the side eye, who am I to say that folks can’t be happy with who they want. More power to em. She can feel like she is climbing a oak tree and all and be happy. LOL

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    • “I have done it, and in all honestly while it felt like I was being led around by by baby brother, he was a nice guy, it just didn’t work out.”

      This is the typical excuse, aside from not being able to wear high heels, that most tall women use against shorter guys. Any tall chick who’s been socialized in North American culture will always feel like a mom or big sister in public with a shorter guy. I don’t understand this way of thinking because a man’s height shouldn’t take away from who the man is himself. Sadly, I’ve met women who strongly believe a short guy will never be a man and shouldn’t be taken seriously because of his height.

      “It just didn’t work out,” even though he was a nice guy? Gee, I wonder who broke it off? Sounds to me like she’s lying to herself about the importance of a guy’s height to her especially if she’s going around giving disdainful looks to taller guys dating shorter girls. Maybe she’s proud of herself for letting the short guy down easy. Tall girls with height issues that aren’t b**ches, use all the excuses not wanting to hurt a shorter guys feelings. Some women just ex-communicate and hope he goes away by not returning phone calls or responding to emails. Thats perfectly OK. The best thing I’ve learned about relationships is to have no expectations from any woman and not get attached to her. This makes it less likely to be disappointed or have your emotions played around with.

      BTW this 5’5 shorty will gladly admit to having a preference. I prefer a woman with a good heart, good brains, a good sense of humour and self confidence to look past the foolishness and stupidity as to judge a man by his height. I will also admit to prefering ladies my height and taller over the short ones. Why? Short girls think I’m too short and can’t protect them, which leaves the taller girls who don’t need protection and don’t have height issues accessible. The bad thing about that, there aren’t many tall girls who make themselves accesible to short guys.

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  194. I’m a 5’9″ white male — medium, dark, and handsome — with long hair and facial hair. I can honestly say that I’ve never had a woman complain about my height because I never made it an issue in the first place. Maybe it’s because I carry myself with confidence and walk around like I’m the king of this urban jungle, but I always get women running their hands through their hair and rubbing their “phantom goatee/soul patch” when I walk by. Even black chicks can’t seem to resist me, despite my heavy metal image typically being diametrically opposed to what they’re into.

    Do I think height matters? For people who lack confidence or balls, height is probably the default baseline to quantify their compared value. I think it’s ultimately about seeing the total package in action rather than in theory. I’d PREFER a woman with natural double D breasts, a petite waist, and a perfectly round ass — that being said, I wouldn’t turn down a lovely lady who has an awesome package that doesn’t meet my ideal preference 100%. Play your strengths and stop blaming everything on your height — women will stop focusing solely on your height once you do the same.

    On another note, I bet each and every one of these women with so-called height requirements on this site would throw it out the window faster than their panties will hit the floor if they ever met me in person. Any time I see a woman put down an arbitrary number on a site, I can’t help but laugh at how most men see it as anything but what it really is — a shit-test to see if you actually have the balls and confidence to game her.

    Thanks for perpetuating these height fallacies with the same repetitive posts. Your insecurity only means more women for the taking for some of us who see through the bullshit. ;)

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    • “…Maybe it’s because I carry myself with confidence and walk around like I’m the king of this urban jungle….”

      ^^^THIS^^^
      “…I can’t help but laugh at how most men see it as anything but what it really is — a shit-test to see if you actually have the balls and confidence to game her….”

      ^^^& ESPECIALLY THIS^^^

      I kind of feel like DoctorLemon should of ended that all with a closing something like…. “Nuff Said” …except, I have something to say lol okay okay in all seriousness what the man just said is very true (atleast in my case). At 16 years old I had this crazy long extensive prerequisite (as I should) I was young and my standards were suppose to reach out to the galaxy and beyond! all in order for me get down to the core true things. I can say there was a height requirement but there was no malice reasoning behind it…. it was just a preference so I don’t apologize for it. Like someone said above about Latina/Asian women being used to shorter men because the men int their families are short, my reasoning was the same except all the men in my life/family were/are tall so I do understand that way of thinking.

      Fast forward… I have matured from my 16yr old mindset, after being in a 6yr relationship with my ex (who is 5’10) I found myself 22yrs old fresh out of college with a guy who ended up breaking my heart that I ended off breaking up with. I decided to do one of those horrid things that I judged every woman for doing….. MAKING A LIST….entitled…”What I Want in a Man” I promise you guys this list is completely rational so don’t judge me lol. Acceptance & Confidence were in the top 5, I even made an exception clause for myself… that thee only way I could EXPECT any of these things is if I were willing to give them. With that being said I made a seperate column for things that are to be overlooked and in all caplock I typed “HEIGHT”. The way I saw it was that if said man had all and maybe even half the things on my list then he was gonna be mine! So letting height be a deal breaker…quite frankly would have been foolish on my part.
      Now I’m 24yrs old 5’5″ have been with a Man for the past 2yrs I could have only imagined on a list who stands at a confident 5’5″! I’ll tell ya there’s not enough ink in a pen nor keys on a keyboard to make a list up of what this Man exudes. The Confidence he has is PERFECT it’s humble enough that it wouldn’t ever be mistaken for arrogance. Honestly If he were insecure or doubting himself how could I be confident in him? Needless to say he called my bluff on the “s*** test” and the rest is history. A previous poster said that you’ll never find the perfect one they don’t exist….I have to disagree……I have my Mr. Perfection and my standard of perfect includes flaws and all, if he ever changed a flaw then we’d have a problem. By the way his height is a plus for many many reasons.

      Rewind back to my 16yr old extensive prerequisite, some things were flat out ridiculous and silly I can say even at the time I thought they were pretty ridiculous but just didn’t care. If at 24 I still had those same ideals I would be the ridiculous dizzy SINGLE “aint no good men in the world” types. However, some male/females don’t mature pass those things…..Before we jump to conclusions I am not talking about “preference” I am talking about misconcieved notions based on premature judgements of the opposite sex (or same sex… whatever floats your boat) that many people use as a compass to…………….nowhere. Okay some find it elsewhere but are still scorned men/women. He/She hurt you (general you) so you hurt them back. Ghandi said it better “An eye for an eye leaves the whole world blind”. Forgive…Move on….Grow up is the way I see it.

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    • You haven’t had a problem? Well DUH! You’re average height. The height issue effects men under 5’8″ ( in the under 5’0″ to 5’5″ ranger)… so maybe you should get your facts straight, or at least use what little brain you have to render a logical conclusion… you have NO HEIGHT ISSUE.

      I’m 5’5″ and have never had a problem with women, I have personality and I have a build and a presence that makes me pass for 5’8″ – 5’10″ ish… Women honestly can’t tell a man’s height by sight unless they are looking for it or they have something to gauge off of (their heels, other men standing next to a shorter man, etc.)

      That being said, many, many, MANY great/suitable/emotionally and characteristically superior to their tall counter part men are CONSTANTLY overlooked, ridiculed or shunned by women barely hitting 5’1″. This IS a hypocrisy and foolish. It is a hypocrisy ESPECIALLY when a woman ‘CLAIMs’ to want confidence in a man and that is the most important thing… then, heaven forbid, a man only 3 inches taller then her approaches, brimming with charisma/charm/humor and yes CONFIDENCE. She then brushes him of, avoids him or flat out rejects him and either tells him or secretly rationalizes he has some sort of ‘napoleonic complex’. 10 minutes later a 6’3″ douche-bag walks up treating her like a piece of meet and talking to her as if she should feel privileged he graced her with his presence… her heart flutters, her eyes bat and she’s found a ‘CHARMING BEAU’.

      If that isn’t hypocrisy I don’t know what is… LOL

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  195. honestly, at almost 5’8″ i used to be one very much inclined to those over 6’2″ until i fell head over heals for an incredible man who’s 5’11” and treats me like gold. The idea that i might’ve missed out on the love of my life on something as trivial as height is mind blowing. Ladies, open your eyes.

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  196. But when a rapper says he likes light skin women he is a hypocrite? Its all genetics. Its not ok for a man to pick his woman based on genetics but when women do it its fine?. and btw, I am a 6ft guy.

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    • You forget friend… women are ALWAYSs right. And if you want to keep getting that ass you won’t forget it!

      ;-P

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  197. At 5’4″, I prefer to be eye-level with my boo. With that said…

    Whatever, a woman can’t walk out of her house without men’s preferences for eyes/ lips/hips/hair length/everything else. But a man complains when a woman states her preferences. So what?

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  198. I have a very simple and EFFECTIVE solution:

    ALL men under 6’1″ should be rounded up and placed into slave-labor camps. They will be forced to toil, fabricating clothes, cars and other consumer products for the HEALTHY, REAL TALL men over 6’1″. Once they have outlived their “usefulness” they should be put to death.

    Problem solved and all you bigoted ladies will no longer have to cringe when approached by an INFERIOR (under 6’1″) BET-MALE…

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  199. Im a 5ft 5inch tall male, i do jiu jitsu and muay thai and can probably kick most taller guys asses. and im more well endowed than most of them……….:) Dont have a problem picking up women. Just be CONFIDENT.

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