Why I Hate “Good Girl” Problems and Why You Should Too

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They usually look like this. She got Chris Brown'd tho.

Corn, guacamole, and chicks with fake lashes.

Women who go out and purchase fake a*ses.

Turbocharged Hyundais and big pinky rings.

These are a few of my most hated things.

But NONE draws my ire more than “good girl” issues. Ooooooooooooooh child, things are NOT going to get a little easier. You ARE the father.

In case I’m not making myself clear, I think that “good girl” issues are bullsh*t. Now it’s not to say that they aren’t rooted in something. Good girls are, at their core, really just women who don’t want to come off as heathenistic hedonists. And there’s really nothing wrong with that. Everybody has the right to do what they need to do to make it in this cold, cold world. Word to Carl Thomas. What pisses me off about “good girls” is that they run amok amongst the rest of us secure individuals, polluting the dating world with odd rules and timetables intended to fool somebody into thinking that they don’t have urges or don’t like licking schlongs.

Especially since most own at least one set of kneepads that they have monogrammed for that special occasion. Put more simply, “good girls” are the biggest cockteases known to man. You remember that chick Helen…from Troy? Cocktease. Do you know why her face launched a thousand ships? Because Menelaus was mad that she was playing all coy with him but was giving it up on the side to Paris even though she didn’t love him. Or something like that. My Greek mythology is a little rusty, unlike your trombone if you’re dealing with a “good girl”. Here are some reasons why “good girl” issues infuriate me so.

1. The rules have absolutely no rhyme or reason, they don’t rhyme slow or quick

Like, you remember how you weren’t supposed to feed the Gremlins after midnight? That sh*t made total sense. Especially once you saw what happened when Gizmo’s kids got some afterhour snackage. On the flipside, do not sleep with a guy for 90 days has absolutely no f*cking purpose other than to allow a woman to say, I didn’t sleep with him for 3 months so I’m not a ho. Newsflash, when you sleep with a man doesn’t make you a ho – acting like a ho makes you a ho, whether it’s 1 hour or 6 months.

2. It’s usually disingenuous

So, peep game. I know a lot of so-called “good girls”. The problem with this is that they’re all as sexually charged and hyperintimate as the guys they’re keeping on the bench. Which wouldn’t be a problem if they weren’t cockteases. You can’t be out here making innuendo-a** comments and jokingly referencing what you’ll do to somebody if you have precluded yourself from actually doing anything because of your inane arse rules. (See #1)

3. It’s all a front and its fooling nobody

It’s like there’s a club of chicks who are trying to one up each other on who’s the most goodest when the truth is, the rest of us don’t give a sh*t about your self-perception considering how its blatantly obvious that it’s all a front. If you keep having to tell me that you’re a “good girl” chances are that you aren’t. Trust me, I’m a doctor I know, I’ve been telling folks that I’m sexxy for at least 10 years now and I’m a 3.

4. Everything isn’t that damn confusing

The calling card for “good girls” is that they don’t want to move to fast as to not “confuse things”. While I admit that sex can indeed introduce some form of confusion to a situation, I’m more inclined to believe that these “good girls” use that as their de facto scapegoat to maintaining their cocktease status.

5. If you have to suppress who you are to make yourself look better….

…chances are you just a ho in sheeps clothing. Like I said, sleeping with people doesn’t make you a ho. A woman can sleep with 100 men and not be considered a ho. Then you can have a chick whose boned 5 guys who’s the biggest ho everybody knows. It’s not just a numbers game. It’s an actions game. If you let me put it on your forehead because I asked…well you might be a ho. If you at least ask me to wipe off your forehead after I’m done, well then maybe you’re a classy lady!

Rimshot.

Uuuuuuuugh, that’s nasty.

In conclusion, “good girl” issues are nothing more than a BS way to pretend to be something other than what you may be. It’s a lie. It’s a wonderbra.If you can’t be yourself for fear of looking like a tramp, then you are clearly doing something wrong in life.

Oh, and I feel sorry for your mudda.

It was written.

Good people of VSB, what are other surefire signs of a “good girl”? And am I the only person who hates the entire “good girl” phenomenon? And how can we help those afflicted with this affliction?

Shower the people with love.

-VSB P aka THE ARSONIST aka TANGLE JIG P aka VITAMIN P aka GIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIRL HE A 3

504 thoughts on “Why I Hate “Good Girl” Problems and Why You Should Too”

  5. You have to remember that not all women who are holding out for sex are doing it for their image. They are trying to figure out if you are worth the risks (STD, pregnancy, AIDS, emotional, physical, spiritual). Sometimes it has nothing to do with the man but everything to do with the woman being comfortable enough to let you in to her life and body in such an intimate way.

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    • let the chuch say Amen…by the way some women have had sexual abuse in past. and intimacy can at times be a problem due to them being violated etc.

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      • @Courtney – sooooo true! There are just too many risks out there. STD tests are only so accurate (if he’s recently caught something, he may still test negative) …and pregnancy? Shoot, any guy you sleep with could be a potential child’s father, no matter how many precautions you take you can still get pregnant (raise your hand if you’re that baby – lol) Do you really want him to be a part of your life for the next 18 years? Or do you want to end up on Maury? It’s not about being a shrew, it’s about being practical.

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    • Excuse me as I go a jig all up and thru ur comment. It is indeed TRUTH! “Good girls” are people who have some love for their love pockets. Can’t be giving it up to every Tom, Dick and Panama now.

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    • You are right. However, I dont think the homie Peej is talking about those chicks. If you feel this way then stop calling yourself a good girl and say that you dont wanna have chex b/c YOU JUST DONT WANT TO. Stop talking about your fear of being smore, schmeez, jump jiggedy jump jump and start talking about yo fear of the ninja disease, the ninja emotions and yo ninja God

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    • If that’s the case, her approach wouldn’t be couched in the manner described in the post. Hell, a woman doing that is much more likely to state that reasoning to the dude she’s with, whereas a woman like the one described above wouldn’t.

      At least that’s how it went down throughout my experiences.

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    • I agree. I am constantly in a battle. I love sex. No lie. I love good sex though. Too often I was trying to release my sexual urges but I was being dumb and just wanting a good lay to replace my need for affection. I wanted/want love and true love making that makes sex good. So I refrained from having sex and at the same time, I realize this means that I cannot lead men on to thinking they will get some when I know deep down I don’t even feel like they are on my level. So that is where the 90 day let me get to know you period comes in. But ladies must remember to not use innuendos nor low cut v-necks in that 90 day period lest lead a grown ass man into the thinking you want sex. Too bad we can have flirty conversations and cute outfits…dammit…dammit…damn these titties

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  9. Maybe it’s because it’s late and I’m tired but this post is definitely gonna need a re-read…or seven.

    Sometimes i’m slow. Don’t judge me.

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  10. 1. Good girls don’t have 90 day rules. Hoes tryin to pretend they ain’t hoes have 90 day rules. good girls just wont sleep with you at all.
    2. hyperintimate? really? just because they abstain doesn’t mean they don’t have creative minds. if you don’t wanna indulge then maybe you should step way.
    3. these aren’t really good girls you’re dealing with. see number 1.
    4. i don’t think it’s that deep. i think most girl who want to tease guys like that are just chicks on power trips. not supposed good girls. a real good girl wouldn’t even be in the situation to be a c*cktease in the first place.
    5. “A woman can sleep with 100 men and not be considered a ho.” in what bizarro world are you living? As long as she doesn’t TELL anyone that number, then she won’t be considered a ho. Let her blast that figure in public and the labels will fly.

    In short, you don’t know any real good girls, and that’s a shame lol.

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    • “A woman can sleep with 100 men and not be considered a ho.” in what bizarro world are you living? As long as she doesn’t TELL anyone that number, then she won’t be considered a ho. Let her blast that figure in public and the labels will fly.

      exaclty and the woman aint gotta tell cause if she slept with a 100 there are 145 dudes claiming they hit it w/o her saying 1 word

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      • Endorsing is a strong word. I’m just saying, just because they don’t get down before the first night doesn’t mean they’re just a lame altogether in the imagination creation department. They’re still human with human urges. Some of us just have better control over them than others.

        So, no. But I understand…

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    • “In short, you don’t know any real good girls, and that’s a shame lol.” <- THIS!!! Your whole response is pretty much what I thought. Thanks Liz :)

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    • @ Liz

      1. Good girls don’t have 90 day rules….

      I see you with that one because i think it would be stupid to have some sort of quasi rule to follow if after “90 days” you’ll smash any of the homies. But rather being selective is most likely a better option.

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      • @Brklyn2Chi – but isn’t that the main point? a stupid rule for no good reason. even if you reduced it to a 15 day rule. the arbitrariness of it all makes it dumb.

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        • Truth be told i get the logic of a 90 day rule. heck, if I were a hoe I’d have one too. if only because I know ya’ll are liable to make me sick by Day 45, so let’s just wait this out to see what happens.

          On the real, I think some women may know they’re fickle (I know I am), they have poor judgement when infatuated with a guy or maybe they just wanna change it up. It’s not such a bad idea, I suppose.

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        • @Panama Jackson- your completely correct,

          Raises and says “I”

          and I believe that the “I” have it…

          But then again I slang my around like peanuts at a baseball game (lol jk) , so who am I to judge what a lady might like to do with hers.

          Hey maybe its just me though…

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        • like most rules, there are exceptions, and some are made to be broken and some are outdated rules that seem pretty stupid to us now. but i stand by my position that this ‘rule’ has been created in reaction to something else and is rooted in something real and isnt as arbitrary as you make it out to be.
          imo.

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          • Speaking of stupid rules, I once had a romantic interest tell me that she had taken a one-year break from dating because she read that the length of time it takes to get over a relationship is the same amount of time as the duration of the relationship. I appreciated her for telling me up-front that she’s a dumbass who believes everything she reads and can’t think for herself, it saved me the aches of figuring it out for myself.

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            • DEAD PHI DEAD @ Caballeroso. *applauds*
              And Panama, you only believe the 90-day rule is “dumb” because it prevents you from getting laid sooner. Let’s keep it real here.
              I think the front is the real issue. Some women do take longer and are more selective. You cannot knock that practice at this juncture. As the commentors said, STDs, intimacy etc. Let’s say if you are hot and heavy and it’s apparent the woman wants to go all the way then stops and says “OH NO! I can’t It’s only day 67.” Well, that’s just…

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    • nuff said………..oh and some of us (even if we are not virgins) are on a spiritual journey…..true good girls.

      Nobody wants to live in a house that had 100 renters. #i’mjustsaying

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      • “nuff said………..oh and some of us (even if we are not virgins) are on a spiritual journey…..true good girls.”

        Exactly! The few that I gave it to weren’t worth it, so now I’ve closed up shop ’til I get my (minimum) ! carat, solitaire, princess cut, platinum ring! ;)

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        • LOL. I’ve closed up shop as well. Not for a specific type of ring, but definitely until I am married. Just wasn’t feeling it any longer on the other side.

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        • You might want to be a little more specific. A former lady friend of mine was holding out for a ring. He bought her a ring and she was happy (until she found out he was already married).

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          • He bought her a ring and she was happy (until she found out he was already married). .

            Okay I just laughed hysterically.

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          • “He bought her a ring and she was happy (until she found out he was already married).”

            LMBO! Wow! I actually want to get past the “I do’s”, the ring is not suffice. lol

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      • I was thinking the same thing b/c no matter how a girl tries to justify 100 men, It ain’t twerkin… Panama is clearly on his own w/ that one.

        Even if she said well Ive had on average 2 partners a month = 24/year, and I been doin #hosh*t the grown-up for about 5 years = 120 men. The answer… still hell no.

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        • I think PJ’s use of 100 was an exaggeration simply to make his point; however, it brings forth a question….if her number is 100 only because of a dare on spring-break in college 9 years ago, is she still considered a ho just because she went through a 2-semester ho phase? Once a ho always a ho?

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      • Though I’m aware P was exaggerating for ya know…funny purposes, the only way I can see this goin down in reality is if the chick is like a 118 right now and she had sex with one dude per year. Not a ho.

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    • ahh Liz, thankyou! You’re comment was more refreshing than a glass of cherry Kool-Aid just now. BIG co-sign on “most c*ckteasers are just chix on a power trip”. My office is full of females like that= epic fail. Trust me when I say none of these ladies have any intention of being seen as ‘good girls’…..

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    • I don’t think he’s referring to actual “good girls” per se. It’s moreso the women who put up the front of being a “good girl”.

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      • Thank you… and I thought the post was clear enough…

        But any woman who subscribes to the belief that there is a set of “good” girls versus “bad” ones have fallen into a very insidious trap… and they just make me *shrug*…

        Then again, I am a self-aware womanist so it’s to be expected… *shrugs*

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      • no, not prude, but their logic isn’t based on some book written by someone who has been known to wear a lace front toupe and aren’t making decisions based on some image they are trying to convince you to believe.

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      • I was sad that I missed today’s post… but a couple of comments in, and I am glad I did… My blood pressure would have gone up for NO good reason…

        Good girls… pffft! How about you strive being a good human being… and that implies living your life true to you and stopping with the comparison between x,y, and z….

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    • D@mn you, Liz! I was scrolling through comments hoping no one had made my point yet. Now I gotta piggy back ***begrudgingly hops on Liz’s back***
      I’m thinking that a lot of these so called “good girls” are misclassified. For example: The c*cktease at your office is not trying to get down with you because (gasp!)….she doesn’t want to get down with you! She’s not a good girl! She probably has a man and gets off on seeing you drool over her. Or there’s probably some dude who she’s itching to break the kneepads out for but he’s not feeling her as much. So she has you thinking she’s on some good girl sh*t when really it’s that she does not have and never had any intention of breaking you off a piece. I have a guy friend who suffers from this delusion and can’t quite understand why he can engage in flirtatious texts and occasional shared lunches with the office hottie but she never wants to take it any further. He keeps thinking she’s interested but that she’s held back because of some “good girl rules”. I’m pretty sure he’s just being used for her mild entertainment.
      It’s amazing what the ego does to protect itsself. It makes up terms and classifications of all sorts but I guarantee you that in many cases when a woman is teasing and not giving in, you’re not dealing with a “good girl”, you’re dealing with a girl who isn’t really interested.
      **Kisses liz on the top of the head and hops off of her back** Thanks for the ride, Liz!

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      • @Mellow Yellow…I cosign. I must admit I do that EVERYTIME and many girls I know do it too. It’s not for the amusement but just as a plan B. if plan A falls thru, you have some kinda fall back. It has nothing to do with the good girl shit. May be PJ has just been Plan B’d so many times he doesn’t recognize the difference. just saying.

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  11. I knew you liked Carl Thomas. You know songs that weren’t even released as singles…lol. You’ve been frontin’. :-D Good girl problems? *sigh* I don’t know what to tell ya’ll about that. “If you can’t be good, at least be careful”~my Grandma

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  12. dayum
    who promised you supper and then skipped on dessert?
    balls a little cold and blue are they?
    waiting 90 days is just a guideline, and while the number is arbitrary, it allows you to get to know the person before s.e.x comes in and clouds the issue. It doesn’t mean you dont like se.x it doesn’t mean your teasing or being disingenuous, it just means your looking for something thats not rooted in knocking the boots.
    being able to maintain and control yourself to make decisions about a perspective S.O. is not a good girl thing its a grown up thing. Its childish to give in to every whim and then expect no repercussions or consequences.
    and I seriously doubt you would want to wife the chick with little to no discernment in partners and who gave it up to every tom and dyck that came her way.

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    • nobody pissed in my wheaties actually. i just decided that sometimes you have to go hard or go home. and my balls are just fine thank you.

      i realize that a grown woman wouldnt have any of these issues. or shouldn’t. that doesn’t stop a lot of women that we all know from participating in a lot of games for purposes of not looking a certain way.

      and no, i wouldnt want to wife up the 100-dyck chick. but we all know i’m a racist.

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      • i realize that a grown woman wouldnt have any of these issues. or shouldn’t. that doesn’t stop a lot of women that we all know from participating in a lot of games for purposes of not looking a certain way.

        so how do YOU know if the girl is really trying to get to know you or “playing games”
        is it her reputation for giving it up prior?

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        • I dont need to know her rep prior. i think you can tell early on if a chick your dealing with is focused on not looking a certain way. mostly cuz i’ve dealt with chicks like this before. many moons ago. and its not even solely sex. it can be any allusion of impropriety that will throw them for a loop and make them backtrack on things. “i shouldnt be over here too long…or i shouldnt be doig this…etc…”

          it’s like girl, we’re reading the bible together.
          her: but we’ve been reading it too long. this aint appropriate. LOL.

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          • @panama jackson

            ohhh okay so we talking bout the ” i dont normally do stuff like this” girl
            i get that.

            not just women who have standards that you happen to wanna get to know in the biblical sense…..

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            • @shay-d-lady, yeah. while i realize sex is the main thing folks will hone in on ( i did that on purpose) the fact is, its not all just limited to sex with the good girls. its the whole air of inappropriateness that permeates their being despite the fact that nobody is looking but them.

              how can anything be inappropriate if all teh people who might judge you aren’t even paying attention b/c they got their own non-sense to worry about.

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              • “its not all just limited to sex with the good girls. its the whole air of inappropriateness that permeates their being despite the fact that nobody is looking but them”

                Well P you shoulda been more clear cuz you confusing the sh!t outta folks up in here!… mofos on a whole other page-smh

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              • @Yeah…So – i am an artiste. i art sh*t.

                and you taht folks will run with whatever they want to run with depending on their level off offense. even if folks remotely think i’m taking shots at them, they’ll go on a panama-sized tangent.

                in conclusion, read my lips.

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  13. I can see that #2 from yesterday, and the rationalizations, stuck in your mind. Tell em why you mad son!

    I think some of the VSS’ touched on it yesterday, can we put some of the games to bed?

    I know if a PNSYT (pretty not so young thang) laid it out for me and I was into her we could find some wiggle room somewhere. There’s always alternatives.

    I dont want to have to completely morph into a “bad boy” for some wet wet. That’s equally as deceiving.

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  14. Rihanna’s never been a good girl video, all that yodeling/winding in Pon De Replay video didn’t fool me….SIGH, where to begin on this subject, this reminds me of a recent conversation with a few female associates of mine we are young college students..about celibacy,waiting for sex, what things people consider sex, etc, 1 is a virgin however she is a tease, and I made up the word “Virgin Hoe” I know it’s a paradox, meaning of this word refers to a female who claims to be a virgin/celibate but on the dancefloor is like Ciara in ride/ sex with clothes on, or sexting 25 diff dudes/huge flirt and when aguy wants some she acts like Dawson’s Creek or somethin’ don’t lead guys on like that somethin’ bad could however, however what pisses me off is guys will wife up a “Kim Kardashian” or a town slut, but won’t give a Good Girl the time of day..smh and guys are funny ..sidenote what if a beautiful girl looks wise (Stacey Dash, Halle Berry, or whomever is the standard of beauty in your eyesetc.) was celibate or a virgin would you dump her or even date her?? or do everything you can to be a nice guy just so you could smash, it makes me think of my young cousin who told me her big Cuz, guys don’t care about nothin’ but sex and they won’t stay with you if you don’t do etc.., I thought about what she said when I read this and said Dayum thats sooo sad, yet true…I told her her body is a temple, to listen to Lyfe Jennings “S-E-X”..btw a lot of girls I’m recalling from highschool parents thought they were such a good girl honor roll and a hoe at the same time..smh..

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    • @90sgagirl – i personally wouldnt stay with a chick whose celibate or a virgin because i’m a grown arse man and realize that sexual chemistry and compatibility plays an important part in a relationship. now when im dating women, my sole intent isnt to smash but i’d be lying if didnt say that wasnt something i think about. its called doing the grownup for a reason. you can date virgins in your early 20s…after that, it just doesnt make sense from a practical standpoint.

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        • no, i didnt make that leap. i live out there, so don’t go there. however, as an adult, sex is generally apart of your life. lifestyle wise, a 25+ male is not, unless for religious reaosns, going to exclusively wait on some uberfine woman just cuz she’s fine. the term a dime a dozen exists for a reason. she’d have to bring a lot more to the table than just her looks in order to get a grown ass man to be like, you know what, she’s worth the wait…no matter how long it might be.

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          • Ok, I got it.

            “a 25+ male is not, unless for religious reasons, going to exclusively wait on some uberfine woman just cuz she’s fine.” <- This is quite true, which is why you should both be on the same wave length period. If you want to get down and she or he doesn't for whatever reason they've chosen, eventually there's going to be a problem.

            What I dislike is when we start throwing accusations that one group is silly/stupid/slutty/or wrong. I've sometimes gotten vibes with posts or comments on this site that virgins/celibate/abstinent people aren't exactly welcome to the discussion…

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            • @Andi – i dont know where anybody has said that virigns weren’t welcome to the discussion. or abstinent or celibate people. all are welcome at the table for dinner. hell, its a diff perspective. i tried that celibate thing for a while…it didnt work cuz teh chick i was dating wasn’t having it. lol.

              but you also have to realize you’re on a site where 95 percent of the folks are having sex and probalby lost their virginity over a decade ago. nobody said virgins were stupid…however you cannot be mad at dudes for overlooking virgins, especially during their prime dating years etc. i dated a virgin when i was 22-24. i loved her but it became a roadblock b/c i wasn’t a virgin and her reasons were retarded (non-religious..she just wanted to not give it up without being married…but her dome game was vicious…i had beef with the inconsistency).

              i think the disconnect is that for so long women are told that being a virgin is such a great thing. then reality sets in during the 20s and it becomes an issue b/c that sanctity that folks attributed to it is no longer as desirable trait to most men…and i’m sure its NEVER a desirable trait to women. if anything, i think it tends to be more of a reality check than a “not welcome to the discussion” thing…

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              • “think the disconnect is that for so long women are told that being a virgin is such a great thing.”—
                I don’t know if this a cultural or societal thing, but I don’t recall during the “Sex talk” my mom told me that being a virgin is Great, of course every parent wants their babygirl to remain pure etc, or have sex in hs but my mom kept it Real with me and told me my body is a temple it’s something beautiful and any and errryyyybody can’t enter it, etc and when you are ready to do that protect yourself physically/emotional ties etc but I made a vow to myself that sex is for serious relationship, that doesn’t mean I don’t get horny as hell at times, but I’ve seen tooo many OooopsBabies or women putting up with BS bc of good sex complainin about men, when they didn’t give em any standards to earn the Good Done Debbies(B.Scott)

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              • Thanks for the clarity. I think there was a post some time ago about the “problems” with dating virgins. I can’t find it, so forgive me if my context is off. It just gave me the impression that this was an “us versus them” thing as opposed to different strokes for different folks. I appreciate your response though.

                Truth is it’s a lifestyle choice one has to make beyond reasons like their parent/youth group leader/teacher told them so. And if you genuinely make that choice, it’s more likely that you’ll approach the dating game differently period, if you’re dating at all. If you’ve overlooked me because I’m a virgin, I’ve probably already overlooked you for various reasons. But just cause I might not be compatible with the overwhelming majority of VSBs on this site doesn’t mean that I don’t find their comments interesting and compelling. I just think my perspective is valid as well. Thanks for a seat at the Table Panama :) Pass the potatoes.

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              • @Andi,

                “I think there was a post some time ago about the “problems” with dating virgins. I can’t find it, so forgive me if my context is off. It just gave me the impression that this was an “us versus them” thing as opposed to different strokes for different folks.”

                I think that’s the post where I announced to everyone of the nickel in between my legs.

                I understand, Andi, that one may feel a little left out with all the chexy talk since we’re not…you know, having it. (well, other than w/ myself) But, I never really felt like it was “us vs them” so much…maybe because I had already felt like VSB was a family. I’m not sure. Either way, I said my piece on virginity to the best of my ability…and why I chose it. In fact — AS I RIDE MY SEGWAY TOWARD A SEQGUE — today’s post at my ecrib is about just that. Fittingly. *clickmynamedammit…please*

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              • @Cheekie

                LOL at the nickel! The more I read, the more I see what it is your saying. There’s definitely a family atmosphere and I’m feeling more comfortable contributing to the discussion. I did read your blog though and it was so refreshing!!! I need to go comment. I hope your birthday is bomb.com thus far :)

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              • I think it IS a desireable trait, though. Men don’t want a true virgin, but they do want something close to it vis a vis a woman who is closer to virgin than ho on the Virgin-Ho Scale that I just created. Hmmm…..

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            • “What I dislike is when we start throwing accusations that one group is silly/stupid/slutty/or wrong. I’ve sometimes gotten vibes with posts or comments on this site that virgins/celibate/abstinent people aren’t exactly welcome to the discussion…”—I Agree w/ this..what’s wrong with “Let’s Wait A While” & then be “Nasty”–Janet Jackson…

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            • @Panama

              Thanks for the clarity. I think there was a post some time ago about the “problems” with dating virgins. I can’t find it, so forgive me if my context is off. It just gave me the impression that this was an “us versus them” thing as opposed to different strokes for different folks. I appreciate your response though.

              Truth is it’s a lifestyle choice one has to make beyond reasons like their parent/youth group leader/teacher told them so. And if you genuinely make that choice, it’s more likely that you’ll approach the dating game differently period, if you’re dating at all. If you’ve overlooked me because I’m a virgin, I’ve probably already overlooked you for various reasons. But just cause I might not be compatible with the overwhelming majority of VSBs on this site doesn’t mean that I don’t find their comments interesting and compelling. I just think my perspective is valid as well. Thanks for a seat at the Table Panama :) Pass the potatoes.

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      • “you can date virgins in your early 20s…after that, it just doesnt make sense from a practical standpoint.”

        As a virgin this is why I do not like to date. Sex is too much of an issue, this is why I am more compatible with older men. That is all.

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          • It’s not that they don’t want to have sex. It’s just that I don’t feel any pressure to have sex. Most of the time when sex becomes an issue it is with a younger guy. I start second guessing myself and that’s not good. With older men I meet they have more patience with me.

            Reply ↓

            • @Natasha – how old are we talking. and what do you mean by more patience? like, not trying to be funny, but wouldn’t they need the patience of a saint? to my knowledge, for men who are sexually active, sex is an important part at some point….

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            • LOL, patient as a saint. I don’t know. Sex is important and that’s why I realized I am not going to be the person who dates alot. That is just my reality. Your right a man is going to want to have sex, but if we are to be together he is going to have to wait. So maturity allows you to look at what is really important to you. Do you wait and get what you want at some point, or get it now with someone you really don’t like your just horny? It’s not for everyone. But I noticed that older men find my discipline attractive.

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              • A close friend of mind once said (and I’ve found this to be true not ALL the time but on more then one occasion), that a guy is more likely to be very patient when he’s already getting it from some other place. That’s why the pressure isn’t so heavy. Younger guys are still looking to hit any and all (or at least build a steady), an older guy most likely has his go to grind.

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        • @ Natasha: I don’t date older guys ie(old enough to be my Daddy–no Twista”wetter”) but I understand what you’re sayin Dating in 2010 being celibate,etc. is a challenge, being celibate takes soooo much self control like people and really makes you think about the emotional and physical ups & down(pun intended lol) about dating, guys disappear or can’t handle the fact that you would rather get to know ‘em b4 any action is goin on..plus btw sex with people who have abstained from a while can be the ISH!!! all that pent up sexual frustration finally released…ok letme stop..

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          • LOL! Thank you for being understanding sis. I know being celibate is not popular so I am usually in the minority. You are correct, it is just a challenge dating now days. It has been for me.

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        • I’ve almost giving up on dating especially being celibate/abstinent/virginal etc or people in the age bracket o (19-25) bc it’s very difficult/hurts when someone thinks you are amazing but because I only knew em 90days and didn’t eff em relationship-over, for me sex is about Trust, I don’t trust some people I’ve known 4 years, so what makes him think that because we’ve known each other a few days he can be the blues in my left thigh… trying to become the funk in my right.–Darius Lovehall

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          • @ oftenconfused
            LOL, girl men are men. They will do what they want to do. I mean men around 34 ish and up to a little over 40. So, I know it is not evey older guy. I have met younger men who are ok too, they are also the ones who are ready to settle down.

            @nia g
            You are right. I have actually have had someone say that he would wait to have sex with a virgin, but while he is waiting have sex with someone else. Interesting…

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      • @PJ your whole response saddens me I’m not a virgin, but do plan on being celibate until I remarry however this is the logic I hear quite often. So I guess I’ll get comfy with the idea of being single (and horny) for life.

        **OC heads to breeder to pick up a litter of yorkies** I like cats but I already have a yorkie.

        Reply ↓

    • I think sex is much, much too easy to get outside of the relationship parameter to get too worked up about it inside of a relationship. In other words, why go through the at times expensive and time consuming act of dating with the implicit expectation of sex when you can get it for free and not be in a relationship? Also, I don’t think it’s necessary to “sample the goods”. I’ve never experienced this mythical “bad sex” phenomenon that people speak of, and I don’t have any reason to believe it’s any more real than the Loch Ness. Sexual chemistry however, is very important, but that can be gauged outside of the bedroom IMO. So in short, yes, I could be in a relationship without the promise of sex if 1) I thought there was the possibility I might marry her or 2) she was very interesting and I enjoyed her company just that much. But I guess I wouldn’t **seriously** date a woman without those qualities anyways, so they’re just moot points.

      Now if she was a tease, I’d dump her like a pile of bricks. I liked to be teased a lil but I don’t like teases. I hope that makes sense.

      Perhaps this is some kind of sad indictment of me, but even when I have dated “good girls”, they rarely ended up being quite so good. I’m naturally a “nice guy” as you call it, and I don’t front nice to get the panties. IF that just so happens to work in my favor, what am I to do….?

      Reply ↓

      • “I’ve never experienced this mythical “bad sex” phenomenon that people speak of…”

        My friend you are either fortunate or inexperienced. VSS’s on this site on various discussions have spoken about Mr. Pencil Dyck. What doesn’t get discussed much is Ms. Canyon Coochie – just as men come in all sizes, so do women. When you are “with” someone and are struggling to feel both sides of the chooch at the same time, and you have reason to suspect that you are at least average or larger…it’s simply not a good fit (double entendre). Combine that with a woman who is sexually unenthusiastic (or simply boring/or just lays there), the worse thing in life would be to wake up on the honeymoon to realize you’re stuck with her til death do you part. Why “try before you buy” with everything else in your life, but not do so when the rest of your life is at stake?

        Reply ↓

        • @Caballeroso – i’m sorry but Canyon Coochie literally forced me to close my door in the office and pretend i was having a coughing fit b/c i laughed so hard at that. and yes, it does exist like the talking M&M’s and Santa. i remember my first time…i swear i heard an echo.

          Reply ↓

        • What doesn’t get discussed much is Ms. Canyon Coochie

          This is funny…I’m a visual thinker, so all I thought of was a bro gettin’ it in w/ such a woman and yelling “RIIIIICCCCOLLLLAAAA” into the ‘tang…. and waiting 4 the echo….

          Reply ↓

        • Caballeroso: You are slaying me today. Hilarious. That is all. Continue the merriment and knowledge dropping.

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        • Hmmmm. After the laughter finally died I thought about what you wrote. You make some very compelling arguments. I guess I’ll just consider myself fortunate. Right now I’m batting 1.000. Though now I’m a lil bit skeptical. If the future Mrs. Courtney (VSB) wanted to hold out, you’ve possibly ruined it for her. LOL!

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      • GOD bless you!

        “I thought there was the possibility I might marry her.”

        Thank you! That’s what I am saying. There are men who do not approve your message. I thank GOD for men like you who do. There are ways to tell if you will be compatible sexually without having sex. It’s called chemistry. I know I am in the minority so I digress…

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  15. So, two things. 1. The BMW banner at the top of the page really made me feel good inside. Somebody clearly thinks that by virtue of reading this blog I have a great salary and/or good credit. But then again, I live in
    Atlanta where pushing a flossy whip isn’t really indicative of anything. *deflates*
    2. After a certain age though, what’s wrong with taking time to get to know someone? Seems far better than whooly irrational emotions based solely on who you think this ninja is (which is typically the antithesis of who he/she really is)? I think it just depends on where you are in your life. Granted, simultaneous eye-f******* , while seductively deep-throating a blow pop, batting your eyelashes innocently and declaring your chasity is never really what’s up- in this situation anyway (though impressive); who really over the age of thirty is out there just f****** for the sake of f******?

    Reply ↓

    • Aint nothing wrong w/ taking yo time to get to know someone however when you set arbitrary amount of days or dates or whatever it becomes foolish. It is very much possible to know someone for 2 weeks and know someone for 90 days and know the former much better than you know the latter

      Reply ↓

  16. Off top, Happy Birthday Cheekie!

    Before I go to bed:

    The 90 day rule means absolutely jack. While I certainly respect that you’ve made a personal commitment to not confuse things (or, whatever), that’s still well, your personal commitment.

    So unless we’re in a committed relationship, I don’t see me abiding by the same rule.

    And oh yea, there’s no such thing as a “good girl” for much of the same reasons listed in point three. I hate to sound like an a-hole, but you’d have to be a very gullible individual to believe that.

    Nobody out here is as “good” as they’d like you to believe.

    …and I’m out. Good night.

    Reply ↓

    • There IS such a thing as a good girl. Ya’ll clearly just don’t know any lol. No, really.

      I only know this cuz it’s many a gg out there I wish I was like at times. Sigh.

      Reply ↓

      • Hmmm…..Let me elaborate:

        There are definitely good girls out here in a “not a ho” sense. Meaning that they are productive members of society, have morals, goals, and don’t go around sleeping with every Davon, Derek, and Big Black Af (sorry, couldn’t resist).

        However, it’s one thing for you to just be that way, and people take notice. It’s another to go out of your way to remind people every 30 seconds about all the ho-like behavior that you’ll “never do”.

        Those types usually turn out to be the biggest hoes.

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  17. My best friend in undergrad was actually a true good girl, a naive girl, but a good girl nonetheless. How we ended up friends beats me. I guess we balanced each other out. Anyhoo, she didn’t have any special rules, she just went by what were her particular morals and beliefs at all times. She also respected that I did the same, just in a hosh*t fashion.

    Anytime someone comes at you with a rule book or nonsensical list beware, this is disingenuous behavior at its finest. If you have to lay out your morals in a “oh you fancy, huh” outline then something is off.

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    • I think we have the same experience. My best friend from college is a 31 year old virgin… and let’s just say… I am not. Lol!! But that was who she GENUINELY was and was not trying to pretend to be something she was not… She didn’t have to say she “wouldn’t do this or that”, you would find out eventually… Her beliefs held her, and she respected mine. Now that’s a good human being… A TRUE human being… Not some floozy running around trying to appeal to the greatest population of dudes… *smh*.

      This whole “good girl” business makes me laugh at times.

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  19. understood! I think it’s rare in this day in age to find a black male virgin or celibate guy especially in certain age brackets..thinkin’ about The 40 yr old virgin..lol..I know a woman who is a 37 yr old virgin with 2 children (she adopted),she’s got some interesting stories,,anywhoo I remember back when I use to attend this church that would tell the teens/younga dults “wait ’til marriage etc.”, I’m like that’s not realistic at all!!!, I’m not a mentor for young girls but sex is important decision, I feel bad for these girls that get dumped all the time bc they aren’t giving up the Goodies bc they aren’t ready yet or have had bad experiences with sex/being used etc. it’s just sad that middle school/highschool freshmen girls have stds/etc..school nurses tell horror stories, not saying it doesn’t happen, but I watched a lot of people get married b4 the age of 21 just to have sex or bc they got pregnant young or their parents reputation..ie countryclubhigh society parents or doc/preachers kid with baby at 18, and end up divorced at 23 crazy bc they never experienced dating or having sex with other people,, I’m not saying eff every girl/guy in the world, sometimes Sex clouds things in a relationship and people confuse Lust with Love, (Fatty Koo)..

    Reply ↓

    • “I know a woman who is a 37 yr old virgin with 2 children (she adopted)”

      How is her mental state? no I’m asking. 37 years w/o getting none? LAWD. Let a chick go 6 months w/o and… wait. I’ve said too much. Never mind. *creeps out*

      Reply ↓

      • lol, I know right I wonder, she’s actually a great person, and I would have never kown that until we had a personal/spritual conversation..and her mental state rom my knowlege is ok she works as someones personal assistant and being busy with that and her own 2 adopted kids, I guess shes suppppper busy,, but jeez almost 40 yr old virgin, idk about her past (possible sexual abuse? I don’t wanna ASSume, however some people sexually shutdown due to being violated etc)

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  20. Yes, yes, YEESSSS!!! This is exactly what I was talking about yesterday! Folks shouldnt have to perpetrate in order to get what they want, whether it be azz or a relationship! At a certain point, past a certain age, folks should feel comfortable in their own skin and not feel obligated to play a role in their dating lives (unless, of course, role playing is what youre into).

    You and I both hate “good girl” issues, but Ill go even further…”good guy” problems make me wanna barf.

    Nice post!

    L

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  21. *e-chest bump with Panama*

    On the flip side, fellas are just as guilty of this too. Only thing is, we self-depricate the hell out of being nice and still wind up losing in the end. We “Keith Sweat” our butts off crying where are the good women but I don’t think we make up ridiculous rules to keep our good guy title, we just call ish like we see it. Kind of wish Pimp C was here to slang knowledge into these folks since they try to act sweeter than Ne-Yo around a porkchop sammich.

    Reply ↓

    • *sigh* I too miss Uncle Chad. *singing* “get cha mind right baby you’s a siiiiimp, and I’ma red hot undercover piiiiiimp.’

      Reply ↓

      • Girl, I miss Uncle Chad all the time.

        “I’m a country @ss ni@@a, I f**k with ya wife, if the b***h come around, I’ll put some d**k in her life…”

        *sigh* We miss you Uncle Chad. Too many fake ni@@as trying to be rappers nowadays.

        Reply ↓

          • “Let Me See It” was my freshman year at PV. I know that song word for word. I definitely feel you when it comes to Chad Butler.

            Reply ↓

      • I miss Uncle Chad too :( Ever since he passed, I feel like ?this game fcked up I ain’t got no friends ?.

        **pouring out a little liquor for the big homie**

        Reply ↓

        • Sorry I didn’t use * before.

          I miss Uncle Chad too :( Ever since he passed, I feel like ?this game f*cked up I ain’t got no friends ?.

          **pouring out a little liquor for the big homie**

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          • “I just smashed up my Flying Spur, it wasn’t sh!t, I just parked it in the grass and bought some brand new sh!t.”

            “A candy sweet, a candy b!tch, you looking at a candy boy, I done came down, mayne and popped trunk, hit the switch on my candy toy…”

            “I’m coming down candy, I’m putting my work, got a $10,000 link medallion hanging of my $2,000 shirt, the game been good, now all the hoes want to sit on the leather and the wood…”

            *Sheds a tear* I could quote Uncle Chad all day.

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            • ““I’m coming down candy, I’m putting my work, got a $10,000 link medallion hanging of my $2,000 shirt, the game been good, now all the hoes want to sit on the leather and the wood…”

              *singing* looking for that good stuff, tighten up on yo’ backstroke…LMAO!!!

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    • “Only thing is, we self-depricate the hell out of being nice and still wind up losing in the end.”

      Hmm, good point. And it’s the same delusion a lot of times. While girls think that guys really want good girls (yet in reality, don’t care…just want her), guys are often swindled by society as well that they should be nice…and then get dumped for a-holes. It happens all around, I’m thinking. But, I have a feeling WAY more guys are aware of the “a-holes over nice guys” than girls are about “he doesn’t care about the good girl” because I see so much complaining on how nice guys finish last and I see way too many men being cognizant of how being a “rude boy” gets them the goods. lol

      Reply ↓

  22. Rihannas forehead is so distracting. You and the rest of the basketball could #AndySamberg on it and still have plenty room for the coaches without her asking you to wipe it off.

    Uuuuuuuugh, that’s digusting.

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  23. I went to see some male strippers last weekend with my girlfriend. Yea, funny. Mind you I am the only virgin in the group and I was OPEN and excited about going. When the strippers came out my friends put their hands over their faces and acted as if they were shame. What killed me was ALL of them were sexually active. So why are you hiding your face like you never seen a naked man before? I was and still am confused by that because although I am a virgin I am comfortable with my sexuality.

    I see myself as a good girl because of my heart not my deeds. I do not judge my worth on how much “good” I do because I know that is a set up for failure. No one is 100% good! Being honest with yourself gives you freedom! I think your point is Panama that women ought to be comfortable with their sexuality and I agree. But I disagree with the fact that a women can not say when she is ready to have sex. A women is in control of her body. When and whom she wants to have sex with is on her terms. At the end of the day, we have all the power. We have to learn to use it for good:)

    I will wait until marriage to have sex! If that is too long for a man we are not compatible!

    Reply ↓

    • @Natasha – who said that women can’t control when they have sex. i certainly didnt say that. its a woman’s prerogative when she wants to bump uglies. my point is that creating arbitrary timelines for teh sake of doing it. sure she can do that but that is dumb. it totally precludes the way humans interact. if you’re truly feelingsomebody and the mood hits, if you have to look at the calender and say, “nope 20 more days” just for the sake of it its dumb. cuz it proves nothing and doesnt make the guy respect you anymore.

      Reply ↓

      • I see your point now. I am sorry, I misunderstood. I was not clear. I think respect comes from being true to who you are. Not just making up rules.

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    • @Natasha: do you mind me asking, but what are your reasons for waiting for marriage?..as I previously stated I use to attena youth group/young adult group at a church a few years back and they said wait until marriage, yeah sex is a beautiful thing,went over lessons explained bc if you’re with an experienced person they compare you sexually to previous partners and this creates frustration/etc I’m like what if you don’t get married>>, or I know young ppl that got married(wrongreasons) just 2 have sex the novelty wore off and divorce at/ by 23

      Reply ↓

      • @90sgagirl
        I am sorry I missed this message this morning!

        We have to talk. I blogged about this just last week. Please click on my name(like Cheekie said) and you can read about my story. My email is there too:) In short sis I did what was best for me. I have seen so much my whole life and as much as sex is glorified, it has a dark side too. My issue is that does not get talked about nearly as much as how good it feels! I think sexuality is not talk about when speaking of abstinence. The church is part of the problem, as a Christian I think we have to be honest. I know if I was to have sex with a man I would “act” like his wife. I would run to the end of the earth for him when I believe while single I need to put all that energy into myself! When I get married I will put all that energy into my husband.

        @Cheekie
        I am going to the blog now:)

        @DG
        Thank you very much!

        Reply ↓

    • Totally feeling this comment!!! Especially this part -> “although I am a virgin I am comfortable with my sexuality.”

      Cosigning here _________X :D

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    • @Natasha,

      I think this is as good a time as any for a #shamelessplug (click my name click my name)

      I think you’ll enjoy my post today. Please leave feedback. :)

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    • I will wait until marriage to have sex! If that is too long for a man we are not compatible!

      Got nothing but respect for this…

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    • Just wanna mention (as a non-virgin, lol) that the women were probably acting all bashful b/c the whole strip club vibe is truly cheesy! I’ve never covered my face or turned away, but I’ve LMFAO @ the dudes b/c despite being built & swinging them thangs around, they’re often too corny not to laugh at. It’s all entertaining, but nothing to really get into. Just my 2 cents!

      Reply ↓

    • I totally and thoroughly agree with you. People should be comfortable with who they are (sexuality et al) and life will be a lot easier.

      My 31yr-old virgin friend gets more suitors than a little bit… because she is who she is unabashedly…and doesn’t need to clobber people over the head with her “goodness”…. We can see it without her having to repeat it like a mantra….

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  25. woosah…
    pj. this post required me to have it open in 2 windows so that i can address some of your points. this is gonna be long.
    *waits for bathroom break and snack replenishment.

    the short of it: this is bullhst. short answer why? you are making it seems as though adults operate in a vacuum where societal standards can be ignored with no consequence. if that was the case, we’d have sex with whomever/whenever/however, litter, dress like lady gaga and throw our middle finger to the world.

    my longer and more specific answers

    “Good girls are, at their core, really just women who don’t want to come off as heathenistic hedonists”
    what is a ‘good girl’ in this case? i think we should start of by finding out what your definition is. i think im a good catch. my guy friends have called me a good girl (the ones who know me pretty well). so to you either women are closeted heathens or proud heathens? Good girls are women who hear their mothers voices in their heads, the girls who got teased in school and labelled a ho for developing breasts early, the girls who get passed over time and time again, the girl who had her heart broken and many more. the good girl can be short, tall, pretty or not so, girly or tomboyish, me or SFG..there is a ‘good girl’ in all of us.

    “us secure individuals, polluting the dating world with odd rules and timetables intended to fool somebody into thinking that they don’t have urges or don’t like licking schlongs”
    secure individuals??? if i’ve learned anything from vsb in the past 2 weeks is that single or not, relationships are hard. and even if you give your SO everything they want, there is still a chance that it might not work out. i also dont believe that ‘the good girl’ is trying to trick someone into thinking they are virgins or asexual. just that if someones heart is connected to their vaj (shout out to Miss Patterson i believe), why give up both at the same time to someone who might not value either of them? let’s wait awhile wasn’t just a hype tune from Miss Janet.

    “Newsflash, when you sleep with a man doesn’t make you a ho – acting like a ho makes you a ho, whether it’s 1 hour or 6 months”
    well whether i give it up on the 1st date or 10th date, it’s not just my actions that make me a ho but your reactions. if you TREAT me like one, than that’s how I’ll feel. treating me like one could mean: running relay to the door after you arrive, disappearing like BP oil stocks. Make a girl FEEL like ish and you know what she’s feel like? ISH!

    You can’t be out here making innuendo-a** comments and jokingly referencing what you’ll do to somebody if you have precluded yourself from actually doing anything because of your inane arse rules
    If is was a proud heathen saying these things, than you would just chalk it up to being tools of her trade. but a ‘good girl’ saying these things makes her a cocktease. you know what’s almost impossible: for a girl to flirt with herself. i dont know what the female version of co*c!teasing is..but you fellas do it to us all the time. to see if we’ll give in or not. when we dish back what you are giving..then we are ct’s. so what are you for starting it? (yes, i realized how juvenile that sounded).

    “If you keep having to tell me that you’re a “good girl” chances are that you aren’t”
    I’ll agree with that statement. anyone who talks about what they do/dont do – usually are projecting and are the complete opposite. see men who claim not to eat..um..chicken.

    “good girls” use that as their de facto scapegoat to maintaining their cocktease status”
    i think you’ve run into too many females that use their feminine whiles for evil. real girls stay true to themselves, keep their standards despite it being the unpopular thing to do and the fastest way to make you addicted to pr*n and self-satisfaction.

    “A woman can sleep with 100 men and not be considered a ho. Then you can have a chick whose boned 5 guys who’s the biggest ho everybody knows”
    that’s probably the biggest load of crap ever written. with all due respect. if numbers dont matter, why do men ask? and despite your assertion that men dont ask because they know its a lie, trust me as a sexually active (well..not so much right now) female they do.

    like someone said yesterday, it’s a joke if men dont think they categorize a chick. and an even bigger joke to think it doesnt matter.
    and for the record, if this weekend, i decide to wear my sexiest outfit possible, in hopes of drawing attn, 1//2 the thoughts will be damn she’s a ho (without even knowing me) just based on how im dressed. it’s thinking like that, that leads to the ‘well she was dressed provocatively..therefore she was asking for it’ type of argument in a sexual assault case.

    at the end of the day, i get in theory what you are trying to say. i can imagine it’s frustrating for a dude to see women play games and inconsistenly apply their own sub-set of rules. but we didn’t make them. we in an effort to protect ourselves physically and emotionally (because there are more sexual consequenses for a female than there are for males). if we could all play less games as grown ups- than there would be no ‘good girl’ problems for you to hate. cuz the good girl would end up with the good dude.

    but until then….

    sorry for the long post. i anticipate some tomatoes and e-shots to be fired.

    Reply ↓

      • (“Newsflash, when you sleep with a man doesn’t make you a ho – acting like a ho makes you a ho, whether it’s 1 hour or 6 months”
        well whether i give it up on the 1st date or 10th date, it’s not just my actions that make me a ho but your reactions. if you TREAT me like one, than that’s how I’ll feel. treating me like one could mean: running relay to the door after you arrive, disappearing like BP oil stocks. Make a girl FEEL like ish and you know what she’s feel like? ISH!)

        So totally concur with P.

        A ho is somebody who is chexing people in order to get something from them be it love, relationship, money, marriage, etc. A person who consciously chooses to have responsible chex with a 100 people is doing what pleases them. A ho is somebody who remains with an abusive/crappy partner forever so as to be deemed ‘good person’ instead of being the ‘bad person’ with multiple partners. A ho does things in order to get something be it with one or many people.

        To some people your a ho or a prude depending on the time of day and your lipstick colour. No can make you be or feel anything, unless you believe it on some level

        Reply ↓

        • “A ho is somebody who is chexing people in order to get something from them be it love, relationship, money, marriage, etc. A person who consciously chooses to have responsible chex with a 100 people is doing what pleases them. A ho is somebody who remains with an abusive/crappy partner forever so as to be deemed ‘good person’ instead of being the ‘bad person’ with multiple partners. A ho does things in order to get something be it with one or many people.”

          You can’t be serious. I think your definition of a ho is waaay off.
          People have chex for different reasons. Most women do it to feel some sort of bond (on top of the wonderful physical results) with the person they are in a relationship with. Does this make them a ho because they hope to get a connection from it?! The answer is no. The body actually released different chemicals (ignore the details, hormones and neurotransmitters) to aid in this connection
          Also in this day and time, is “responsible chex with a 100 people” possible?? Wouldn’t you say there is an underlying issue with a woman that needs 100 partners to feel good. 100 people and still NO ONE wants to take her serious? No one wants to marry or take her home to their momma. No it isn’t JUST about the chex but I think you and I agree that it is a major component in a relationship. Everyone has a reason for doing it and you singling out doing it for marriage, love or whatever and saying that is ho like, is ridiculous. If they aren’t having this physical connection for these things then why are they doing it? Just for the physical benefits. THAT is going to be a lonely life.

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        • “A ho is somebody who remains with an abusive/crappy partner forever…”
          -Seriously?
          That aint a ho…thats a victim. :-(

          Reply ↓

        • “A ho is somebody who remains with an abusive/crappy partner forever so as to be deemed ‘good person’ instead of being the ‘bad person’ with multiple partners. ”

          o_O Huh?

          Is this, like the 598th definition of ‘ho’ in Webster’s Dictionary? I can’t imagine how you came to this conclusion. I’m intrigued…

          Reply ↓

    • interesting points!!! how people ASSume based of how you’re dressed or body type hoes, but like Dave Chappelle said, if you’re wearing the uniform..don’t be surprised to be called a name or yearning for attention..I don’t call sexually active people hoes, I call people that are sexually promiscuous/multiple partners on the regular,stories etc hoes. I developed breasts at a crazy rate middleshool I was flat chested little boy then 9th grade C cups and at the end of highschool double D’s ( I hated them, still kinda do still growin to embrace ‘em), and I remember how cruel girls could be and how guys look straight at your chest when talking (siigh) people are quick to Judge, but actions=hoe not bodytype..sorry bought my flashback…

      Reply ↓

    • wiping sleep from my eyes, yawning, sitting down with my coffee now, well woosah x 2 aaaaaaaannnnnnndddd – Action- @keishabrown- I would be here all day co-signing & whatnot, have no fear, no tomatoes, or e-shots (at least nor from me) but you prolly knew that already *however this “”"”"Make a girl FEEL like ish and you know what she’s feel like? ISH! “”"”"” truly says it all***I am leaving now & hoping that the gotdam electronic plantation does not keep me on lock today, because I know there will be much discussion today,and not that I’m Miss Cleo or anything, but me thinketh things are gonna kind of get broke out along gender lines…. he!! it may break some VSB record for most comments..so as the Cali Gov would say “I’ll be back”

      Reply ↓

    • Girl, you care too much about what men think. Most men are not going to be attracted to you no matter what. Figure out what you like and play with those guys.

      Any man who asks questions about sexual partners is extremely insecure and needs to be nexted. Real, grown men have more respect and tact and are more focused on the person you are right now instead of who have been or been with in the past. My quote to you, I do not expect to the first man my wife has been with but I expect to be her last.

      Do what pleases you, because there are a few men looking for just you right now.

      Reply ↓

      • @Rock$

        I care what people think of me. That makes me human and who I am. He!! it’s why I sacrifice sleep to be apart of vsb conversations! It’s why people network socially, join twitter and post only the best pics of them on fb and elsewhere.

        I think it’s unrealistic to think that women go through life not caring at all when men think of them (unless they aren’t heterosexual). I dont walk around hoping for PJ’s and dem approval, but I do act accordingly since I’d like a dude that find i find attractive, to find me attractive back.

        Reply ↓

      • Girl, you care too much about what men think. Most men are not going to be attracted to you no matter what. Figure out what you like and play with those guys.
        Wrong, wrong wrong!
        I care about what men think because that dictates how they will act, plain and simple. Every man will not be attracted to me but every man WILL respect me. I don’t have time to “play with guys.” I’m too old. IN order to get someone to be direct and honest, I too must be direct and honest.

        Reply ↓

    • @Keisha
      STANDING OVATION!!! Girl I was trying to let it out but you broke it down! Amen. At the end of the day, Panama is a MAN. He cannot say or relate to a women’s issues with sex. Truth is we are damned if we do and damned if we don’t. If we sleep with you quickly, we’re a hoe and if we make you wait then we’re “pretending and fronting with wack @ss rules”? PLEASE! I know what I need to do with myself and my body. I actually have a personality to match so I can make decisions on when I’m ready to take it there. Please and Thank you. Men really need to get it together with this topic. Sex is simply an act to them…nothing more. Well we are built differently. We will catch feelings and I’m not going to play with something like that.

      I heart you KB!!

      Reply ↓

        • *sniff, sniff..
          @SFG + Bajan. Thanks for the love y’all. I do appreciate it. Truly. e-hugs to my e-sistas.

          This post and vsb is 1 blog in a SEA of msgs we recieve everyday. Steve Harvey and other allegedly “sb’s” tell us to hold out for 90 days (or whatever random number) in hopes of landing a dude. When I look around me and see (in real and in my e-life) smart, amazing single ladies, can you blame us for being confused and trying a ting? That doesn’t make the random number or the ‘rule’ right…but…it does make it so.

          I hope PJ & Champ know that I appreciate the dialogue they add and the knowledge/awareness they increase but please know that it’s 1 more marker in a pack of 1000. It gets tough to sort through and figure which ones to use and which ones are dying.

          Reply ↓

          • @Keisha Brown – which is why you should just do you. a real man is going to appreciate your real ness. straight up. the most important thing about any woman is authenticity. not being who i think she should be. no woman should get lost in herself to please a man. shucks, its teh reason why everybody says, “just be yourself’ and at the end of the day, it works.

            and i realize there’s a lot of BS to sift thru. but most of it is just that, BS. i dont pretend to be an expert. i’m far from it. i’ve ruined just as many relationships as i’ve been a great part of. i speak from my own point of view…for better or worse. we appreciate your perspective…as long as it was. LOL.

            Reply ↓

      • Amen. At the end of the day, Panama is a MAN. He cannot say or relate to a women’s issues with sex. .

        BUT on the flip side, we let MEN create these issues. So in the end they still have the power over us. So at what point do we regain the power and live according to our true selves?

        I am not saying go out and secks every man. Instead sit back, reflect on yourself, learn who you are and trust your own decision making ability without other people’s commentary.

        Reply ↓

        • Exactly and cosign! I’m insecure like the rest and do seek a man’s opinion on many things except when it comes to my body. If I’m not comfortable doing something then I’m not. If that’s a good girl problem to them then so be it. A man can’t dictate everything. If more of us were smart about our puns, we would have alot less problems…and so would men if they think about it. lol

          Reply ↓

    • While I ultimately think that the term “good girl” in the way in which Panama is describing is being misconstrued (or hell, maybe I am…I just didn’t read it the way some here are reading it) I do agree overall with this point:

      “if we could all play less games as grown ups- than there would be no ‘good girl’ problems for you to hate. cuz the good girl would end up with the good dude.”

      *dap*

      Reply ↓

      • @Miss P – thanks!
        @ Cheekie – daps right back.

        In re-reading the post and some of the comments, I agree that the random number is silly. Every relationship operates under different circumstances. As a person who’s dated long distance, 2 weeks local is like 1 month in LD terms (think inception). But I stand by why some of us feel the need to impose this seemingly random rule. I also agree that if you stand for something (esp this important), then stand consistently. It’s the inconsistent application of your own rules that leads you to look silly and foolish. Ashanti

        Reply ↓

    • *puts Garret’s tin of cheese popcorn down, scream’s “QUEENSBRIDGE!” and cheers for Miss Keisha*

      Reply ↓

  26. “It’s not just a numbers game. It’s an actions game. If you let me put it on your forehead because I asked…well you might be a ho.”

    Word. And just like chicks act like they’re good for holding out, WE can act like we’re good by not stressing you to do the do, while all the while we’re pretending to be into you and waiting to put it on your forehead the minute you let us.

    Reply ↓

  27. I’d have to agree with the above comments, though, in the sense that sometimes you rather just get to know the person A LIL bit. I’ve had random a$$ ninjas try to bed me and I’m like but we aint COOL like that slow ya roll. There’s gotta be balance.

    Reply ↓

    • “I’ve had random a$$ ninjas try to bed me and I’m like but we aint COOL like that slow ya roll.”

      You never know what you can get away with until you try.

      A closed mouth doesn’t get fed.

      We receive not because we ask not.

      Reply ↓

  28. The sad part is ALOT of ladies have to learn the rules of the game. Sh*t, I don’t know most of ‘em cuz they change as often as Nicki’s wigs… I try to be a good woman but I can be a tease… thats something I had to learn to (semi)stop. (smile) But at the end I am still learning and still trying to keep my self intact w/ lil regrets!

    p.s. Its hard out here for women! The double standard w/ SEX is very real!

    Reply ↓

  29. Eh, this is why I stay away from self described or perceived “good” girls, it’s not all good underneath the wrapping.

    Reply ↓

  30. I hope ur talking about the girls that make claims instead of girls that don’t start ish in the first place. Errabody ain’t tryna hide the inner tramp. And errabody ain’t tryna jump out of their pants either. There is a middle ground.

    Reply ↓

  31. soooo PJ… lol.

    this is interesting.

    i don’t consider myself a good girl. i also know that i am not near hoe. i agree with you on the fact that having any strict “rule” just because your grandma told you that’s what ‘good girls’ do… is silly. relationships and dating and sex are not pliable and flexible, and each situation is inevitably bound to be different in some way, so having arbitrary rules and expecting them to fit each is kind of silly.

    HOWEVER… every women that waits is not secretly concealing some inner hoebag hedonist. as Liz stated, “being able to maintain and control yourself to make decisions about a perspective S.O. is not a good girl thing its a grown up thing. Its childish to give in to every whim and then expect no repercussions or consequences.”

    …and that pretty much sums it up. cause we ALL know, that a woman who does and openly says she’s experienced 100 joysticks in any way, is automatically labeled a hoe… publicly and privately.

    but i have a sneaking suspicion that you just wanted to rev the VSSs up today. lol. good job.

    Reply ↓

    • “relationships and dating and sex are not pliable and flexible, and each situation is inevitably bound to be different in some way,”

      *definitely meant ARE pliable and flexible

      Reply ↓

  32. In the “Great Book of Opposites” there is a picture of Kat Stacks next to the term “Good Girl” (and allow me to plug today’s blog post shamelessly. it’s a letter to Katherine the Loose). Anywho, good girls don’t wear tshirts that say “I’m a good girl.”

    Things “good girls” don’t have loose walls that make secks seems like throwing a baseball bat through space. Well, unless her seckchual partner is mandingo. Then… I truly don’t know where I was going with this. It’s too late for me to even try to be coherent. I’ll be back at a decent hour.

    Reply ↓

  33. Panamaw….you’za muddafcuka for this post. LOL (but n/r).

    While I will agree that I’ve known a few women who come across as if they’ve been chaste all their lives (when in actuality they’ve been known to suck the meanness off of dude’s…hambone)….umm yeah…
    …but as I’ve said before, a lot of it goes back to how she was conditioned to think and act or in other words “carry herself” when she steps out into the world. Especially since Day 1 some were taught that basically the way they (choose to) “represent themselves” in public….basically represents the fam. So I have no problem confirming the initial statement of point No. 5.

    However, just because she’s being groomed to exhibit some form of self control versus feedin’ her flesh…doesn’t necessarily ring CODE ALERT! (Since I know that you all know, everyone can’t be privy to such information)…but as a young girl, she’s being taught this for a reason….not just for the teachings of self love and respect…..but for her own protection and well being. It’s called laying out the foundation…brick by brick. So that… in the interim, when she grows into a young woman, and NATURALLY finds herself falling prey to certain traps and pitfalls laid out especially for her, she’ll always have something to fall back on…should she stray (as most tend to do). ‘Cause it’s no secret as she comes closer into adulthood, she’ll find it’s a helluva lot easier to fall than it is to get the heyal up. And I believe that’s when many self proclaimed good girls find themselves conflicted. Now this is not to say that there are no such things as good girls per say…just depends on one’s definition of the word. So it’s really all in the eye of the beholder, especially since its also known that some men out here pride themselves on marrying said “good girls”…while never really elaborating on what girl is REALLY good foh’…(yes, foh’). So if the ladies are inflated with all their “goodness”…seems to me, they had QUITE A BIT OF some assistance. :-P

    Reply ↓

    • “So it’s really all in the eye of the beholder, especially since its also known that some men out here pride themselves on marrying said “good girls”…while never really elaborating on what girl is REALLY good foh’…(yes, foh’). So if the ladies are inflated with all their “goodness”…seems to me, they had QUITE A BIT OF some assistance. :-P ”

      *nodding* Good post!

      Reply ↓

  34. Thank you, Thank you, Thank you Panama, I finally got the message,I finally got the message . I have been a good girl, a ho, a cocktease, bat-hsit-crazy but always true to myself. All this makes me no more or less desirable than other woman, good to know.

    VSSs there are no formulae, rules or guidelines to guarantee anything in life, only the knowledge that I did it my way and that is all I can really do and than it’s over.

    Good to whom is my question? You cannot make someone love you unconditionally or garner love from others by being a certain way, either they love you good and bad or they do not. Good girls cannot find real men because real men are looking for real woman; these are woman who are honest about their good and bad. This where the high standards thing comes in because if I find a good man I will have to be good all the damn time, who needs that stress.

    A woman may have slept with a 100 men, but she can cook, clean, chex, converse, dance and crack jokes; my girl bad, my girl hood, my chick do stuff that your chick wish she could.

    I am celibate right now and it is no better or worse than having sex really, because I could still get hit by a bus. Being a virgin or celibate should be natural and not because of fear; diseases, babies, lust, etc. Being either of these things does not guarantee you anything in life or prevent you from ever getting sick – blood transfusion, impregnated – rape.

    All in all be good to you and only God can judge you, men love you just the way you are.

    Reply ↓

    • I ? your entire comment. Especially this: VSSs there are no formulae, rules or guidelines to guarantee anything in life, only the knowledge that I did it my way and that is all I can really do and than it’s over. .

      Reply ↓

    • “I am celibate right now and it is no better or worse than having sex really, because I could still get hit by a bus. Being a virgin or celibate should be natural and not because of fear; diseases, babies, lust, etc. Being either of these things does not guarantee you anything in life or prevent you from ever getting sick – blood transfusion, impregnated – rape.

      All in all be good to you and only God can judge you, men love you just the way you are.”

      this… just made my soul glow. *applause*

      Reply ↓

    • If your comment was a crush of mine, it would be a mix of Chris Paul, Dhani Jones and Aaron McGruder… like he would be the ultimate. That’s how much I love this comment.

      I wish more women understood this especially:
      VSSs there are no formulae, rules or guidelines to guarantee anything in life, only the knowledge that I did it my way and that is all I can really do and than it’s over

      This is the vibrant truth right there.

      Reply ↓

  35. Part II:

    1. No rhyme and no reason it may be to you (&George Duke), but as long as she can live with the decision she’s about to make on whether to get tossed up by the man or not, then you’ll just have to get over it. ‘Cause last I heard, besides a scathed d!ck, there’s nothing worse than getting in the guts of a woman who really wasn’t all that fond of giving them to you in the first place. Eff or rather permeate her mental and usually the Ooochie Wally will follow. Otherwise, no cigar. Now me personally, remaining abstinent (not celibate…there’s a difference) until I’m 100% sure is a must. I don’t know about any 90-day probation period, because I believe it’s determined case by case provided with prayer for discernment, which unfortunately is still not fool-proof…however neither is waiting “X” amount of time. But really…All that I can say (do-do do-do do-do Doooo)… is that putting a lock and key on it (as I near my 36mth mark) has nothing to do with “the portrayals of a good girl” (that’s just a theory many like you have internalized)…
    Bottomline: (I’ve learned overtime) If we’re not on a serious level of exclusivity in the relationship…there will be NO laying of the pipe.

    2. Apparently, you’ve got this thing all misconstrued, sir. I realize that I cannot vouch for the ones you’ve come across, but ummm….whoever said that even the most conservative lady doesn’t love (no, scratch that) RELISHES in great anticipation of taking a ride on a well-oiled diesel? Anyone?…anyone? Probably more so than those who get their jollies off on the regular; simply because she’s making up for lost time and/or a previous drought…’cause dryspell don’t necessarily mean that she was necessarily dry herself. However, just because she’s a bonafide pro behind closed doors, doesn’t mean such an incentive should disqualify her from simply being a genuinely good person. Good girl DOES NOT = Prude. So go on somewhere with that, ’cause I’m sure a lot of ninjas would prefer the best of both worlds. NoJiggaman&A’RRah. And you sir, sound as if you may have been suffering (in silence) from the Madonna-Wh0re complex. heheheh…

    3. Now I will say, I must concur with ” It’s like there’s a club of chicks who are trying to one up each other on who’s the most goodest.” I notice that as well, mostly perusing the interwebs . But that’s with anybody, Panamaw…if you need convincing on a subject matter, then more than likely it doesn’t exist…otherwise you would’ve recognized it (if not from the beginning, over a period of time).
    4. Everyone’s not out to leave you all hard and dry. Some people actually adhere to : doing something they’ve never done before, in order to attain something they’ve never had before. Different actions for different results. Plain and simple. Relationships built solely on sexual relations rarely go any further than the bedroom door to the kitchen floor. It’s no wonder such instability is expected to go belly up. Literally.

    …and I find it amusing how you’ve managed to list all the character traits of what a good girl is NOT, while never clearly stating how to identify what one actually is…or would look like for that matter. Much like the Unicorn Mafia (thanks legitimate_soul) we VSSs tend to give props and encouragement to, even if we’ve had our share of Saddlebreds…yet and still, we know one, when we spot them.

    Hmmmm….I’mma go with Liz and say: Methinks you’ve been deprived by a lot of c0ckteasers disguised as good gals, so it’s no wonder why you’re finding it difficult to tell them apart. *pats P (he’s justa 3) on his little head* LoL

    Reply ↓

    • In closing:

      It is my belief that good girls would love to get their backs blown out (regularly and w/o worry), which is more than likely just as bad as some of you men would love to do the honors.

      Now me?….I wouldn’t label myself a good girl. I’m just a woman…with a big …Heart. But make no mistake about it, we womenfolk love that isht too. Some of us just exhibit more self control than others. But if my lovin’ it (noMickyDeez) disqualifies me from being genuine, then so be it. Hmph, I like what I like. Damn the label. :-D

      Reply ↓

      • *cheering for Ms Butta’sWorth and passing her a tin of popcorn!*

        Good post! Love the original, part 2, and the closing. Especially:

        and I find it amusing how you’ve managed to list all the character traits of what a good girl is NOT, while never clearly stating how to identify what one actually is…or would look like for that matter. Much like the Unicorn Mafia (thanks legitimate_soul) we VSSs tend to give props and encouragement to, even if we’ve had our share of Saddlebreds…yet and still, we know one, when we spot them.

        and

        Apparently, you’ve got this thing all misconstrued, sir. I realize that I cannot vouch for the ones you’ve come across, but ummm….whoever said that even the most conservative lady doesn’t love (no, scratch that) RELISHES in great anticipation of taking a ride on a well-oiled diesel? Anyone?…anyone? Probably more so than those who get their jollies off on the regular; simply because she’s making up for lost time and/or a previous drought…’cause dryspell don’t necessarily mean that she was necessarily dry herself. However, just because she’s a bonafide pro behind closed doors, doesn’t mean such an incentive should disqualify her from simply being a genuinely good person. Good girl DOES NOT = Prude. So go on somewhere with that, ’cause I’m sure a lot of ninjas would prefer the best of both worlds. NoJiggaman&A’RRah.

        AND

        I’m just a woman…with a big …Heart. But make no mistake about it, we womenfolk love that isht too. Some of us just exhibit more self control than others. But if my lovin’ it (noMickyDeez) disqualifies me from being genuine, then so be it.

        Reply ↓

    • I don’t know you but I love you Ms. B! lol I co-sign your whole post. I want to enjoy the man without too many worries. Nothing feels better than sex with some you love.

      Reply ↓

      • Awww shucks!…thanks for the shout SFG.

        And to your post, you pointed out some really good points!…and to be honest both descriptions of the types of women some of the men despise (to include the ones they actually go for), are quite similar..performance-wise. I believe its the h0e mentality they take issue with, which is quite understandable.

        Reply ↓

    • Hmmmm….I’mma go with Liz and say: Methinks you’ve been deprived by a lot of c0ckteasers disguised as good gals, so it’s no wonder why you’re finding it difficult to tell them apart. *pats P (he’s justa 3) on his little head* LoL

      actually, i dont feel that to be true. i just felt like writin gon something that came up yesterday. i’ve dealt with a cocktease or two. all men have.

      Reply ↓

      • See, I did not have the pleasure of catching up on yesterday’s nor the day prior…

        But Panama….come with me on this…according to your title and supporting bullets you’ve laid out, good girls = c0ckteases (one in the same)…much like unicorns…they appear only in your dreams, since you’re pretty much questioning their very existence. LoL But this is also coming from someone who doesn’t really consider herself a good girl (according to societal views), just one with plenty sense bought and paid for courtesy of life….so clearly I’m just doing my part by contributing to discussion.

        And I know its well after 2 in the afternoon, but I propose a revision of the current topic to: Why I Hate C0ckteasers and Why You All Should Too. :-)

        Reply ↓

  36. Senor Panama;
    I agree, with “If you can’t be yourself for fear of looking like a tramp, then you are clearly doing something wrong in life.”… the supposed ‘good girls’ you speak of need to just grow the hell up and own their sexuality=end of story.
    However, as VSS Courtney already mentioned above, a ‘good-girl’ may truly be holding out because she needs to weigh the risks. This doesn’t mean that she is not into getting some action, just not right this damn second…. That said, (if she is mature) she will be able to own up to the fact that she enjoys various chex positions w/ out ‘worrying about lookin’ like a ho’.
    Monsieur Panama, a counter-proposal: what are your thoughts on the ‘good-boy’> a.k.a the ‘Cl*t Killers’>a.k.a the dude who swears he wants to ‘take things slow’ as to not put any pressure on his lady….only to constantly leave hints about all of the wild ish he’s gonna do once the relationship is in a ‘good place’. What’s a lady to do? You don’t want to seem like the hormonal deal breaker by riding him like a cowgirl, yet he’s laying the Astroglide and the saddle right down in front of you lookin’ like “Whatcha wanna do, sweet cheeks?”
    Any thoughts on how to eradicate such creatures from the dating pool as well? It would help a few of my homegirls out a lot (then I wouldn’t have to deal w/ hearing all their whining about said dilemma). Gracias ‘n sh*t…

    Reply ↓

    • P.S: Can I just get a big WHOOP WHOOP! for the married folks!?
      Why? ‘cuz I don’t have to deal w/ any of this sh*t :)
      @ home I’m the ‘ho’ and the ‘goodie 2shoes’= chex when I like it, how I like it.
      Marriage=Chex Burger King: have it your way…..

      Reply ↓

    • Monsieur Panama, a counter-proposal: what are your thoughts on the ‘good-boy’> a.k.a the ‘Cl*t Killers’>a.k.a the dude who swears he wants to ‘take things slow’ as to not put any pressure on his lady….only to constantly leave hints about all of the wild ish he’s gonna do once the relationship is in a ‘good place’.

      these guys exist??!?!?!?!?!

      Reply ↓

  37. 1. Panama has amnesia. http://www.verysmartbrothas.com/ladies-heres-how-you-get-caught-up-again/ : “I suppose good d*ck really is hard to find because for some odd reason, women will give up the love musket even if they’re confused about the current situation and where it’s going.”
    2. I read a book a while ago that talked about that 90-day rule. I thought it was funny and semi-cruel, especially if there is indeed sexual chemistry. But I’m certain that waiting has more to do with finding out if dude is really someone worth giving up the “love musket.” Everyone’s got a story of letting the mutual chemistry get the better of us, getting laid, and then realizing later that you’re caught up and he’s well…not.
    Nobody wants to get dap after doing the do.
    3. Good girls are just as confused as the rest of ‘em. I know, cuz I am one. *applause* My brain and libido get in fights all the time. And my libido has been losing for awhile now.
    4. Good girl syndrome usually involves playing with fire ALL THE TIME. I think it’s human nature to see how close to the fire you can get without getting burned (nah, not that kind of burn). But ultimately, you fall back on past experience. And if past experience has shown you that your libido has the intuition of a “re-tard”, (by the way, I watched Hangover for the 3rd time and that sh*t is STILL funny) then it’s best to just chill.
    *Curtsy*

    Reply ↓

    • “Good girl syndrome usually involves playing with fire ALL THE TIME.”
      -Thats the truth! What do people expect? We live in a secular society and our bodies are human so being a “Good girl” (I hate that term) is not easy!

      Reply ↓

    • @Miss Patterson

      iCoSign this as well.
      If I followed my libido everywhere it wanted to go I’d be in some serious trouble. Does that mean that internally I’m a h0e? Or does it mean I’m hypers3xualized? I think my self-control in those situations and determining who is worthy of the “love musket” speaks more clearly about who I am then the fact that just b/c dude A and I have chemistry he’s not getting it. I don’t have set days… e.g. the 90 day rule, but I do know I wait until I figure out if he wants the same things I want & I’m not talking about knowing what my 500-thread count sheets feel like.

      Reply ↓

      • If I followed my libido everywhere it wanted to go I’d be in some serious trouble. Does that mean that internally I’m a h0e? Or does it mean I’m hypers3xualized?

        Naw, darlin… this just means you’re human like the rest of us…

        Reply ↓

  38. As a good girl I’m offended!!! But that’s ok pj this is more confirmation that I need to stay that way just to prove ppl wrong. Everybody ain’t out here sleeping with everybody. Smh

    I’m trying to see what you’re saying and I guess I understand your point about picking random time spans, if you’re just gonna give it up in the end. Still I’m sure you can weed out some people in 90 days that you couldn’t in 30 or less. I’m celibate period so I guess that’s different.

    Reply ↓

    • Oh and this right hur is a lie:
      “…chances are you just a ho in sheeps clothing. Like I said, sleeping with people doesn’t make you a ho. A woman can sleep with 100 men and not be considered a ho. Then you can have a chick whose boned 5 guys who’s the biggest ho everybody knows. It’s not just a numbers game. It’s an actions game.”

      Numbers make you a ho, actions make you a freak. Yeah there’s some overlap but whatever. Guys trip me out. I was just having a convi with one on my male ho friends. He mentioned he’s not seriously dating or marrying a woman who’s bedded over 7 guys. I point out this is a huge double standard he agrees but sticks to his point. Mind you this guy just months ago was trying to bed me and is currently encouraging me to hive it out to the guy I’m seeing now (bc of course no guy is staying around sans sex). My point to him was if I agreed with that and started sleeping with everyone I date, I’d surely ended up over his 7ppl cut off. WTF. I don’t get this logic.

      Reply ↓

    • Oh and this right hur is a lie:
      “…chances are you just a ho in sheeps clothing. Like I said, sleeping with people doesn’t make you a ho. A woman can sleep with 100 men and not be considered a ho. Then you can have a chick whose boned 5 guys who’s the biggest ho everybody knows. It’s not just a numbers game. It’s an actions game.”

      Numbers make you a ho, actions make you a freak. Yeah there’s some overlap but whatever. Guys trip me out. I was just having a convi with one on my male ho friends. He mentioned he’s not seriously dating or marrying a woman who’s bedded over 7 guys. I point out this is a huge double standard he agrees but sticks to his point. Mind you this guy just months ago was trying to bed me and is currently encouraging me to hive it out to the guy I’m seeing now (bc of course no guy is staying around sans sex). My point to him was if I agreed with that and started sleeping with everyone I date, I’d surely ended up over his 7ppl cut off. WTF. I don’t get this logic.

      Reply ↓

      • I think I get where P is coming from, so here goes.

        The questions are why are you holding out and to whom are you being good? There are no guarantees in this life.

        Your friend is a fool and there are no double standards, only women who allow men to control us with idiotic crap like I will only marry such and such a woman. How will he ever know how many woman she really slept with?

        If being a good woman is all it took, than all VSSs would be married but it is not and it is because of all these inane reservations that prevent us from finding real men. Be your own judge and stop worrying about being good.

        Reply ↓

        • I feel you ( and pj) if you’re saying don’t do things just to do it. Like conversely I don’t sleep around because errybody else is or because if he doesn’t get it from you he’s gonna get it he’s gonna get it from someone else. 

          To answer you’re question I’m holding out for me. I’m good for me. I don’t want regrets. I’m celibate bc I just don’t believe in effing for bottles reisling and bowls of bake ziti. I’m fancy! And I’m worth it. Loreal. 

          Reply ↓

  39. @kesha_brown – 100% cosign

    @panama – I think men need to chalk up the “good girl” syndrome to the game, since you created it. If men weren’t so quick to label women as “hoes,” we wouldn’t have the need to front or act as “good girls.”

    Much of what I’ve been thinking has already been said, but having experienced a brush with an STD scare and having observed the recklessness of most men when it comes to sex, I see nothing wrong with celibacy and abstinence, but the reality is that sometimes it gets hard and women, are better than men at controlling ourselves. Otherwise, more men would be abstinent/celibate and not trying to smash nearly everything that drops the panties.

    Reply ↓

  40. WHAT the hell is the deal w/dudes wanting to “put it on your forehead?”

    I have heard dudes throwin’ this around since I was 18 (some time ago) & I just can’t make heads nor tails of it. What the hell is sexy about a forehead? Really?

    All I can assume is just the excitement of having Da D near a girl’s face. But isn’t the goal there to aim for her mouthpiece? I’m just wondering.

    Reply ↓

  41. “A woman can sleep with 100 men and not be considered a ho.”

    Really?
    I beg to differ. If a woman gives it up to 100 guys, she’s not only a ho, she’s a stank ho.

    This post seems a tad bit misdirected. I think your issue is with the cockteases not the good girls.

    Reply ↓

    • This is a bit worrisome. There can only be so many women in the world. Even assuming a 60/40 ratio, one of three things must be going on:

      1. There are a lot of “good girls” and most men are exaggerating their sexual accomplishments.
      2. There are a lot of “hos” and most men are not exaggerating (too much).
      3. There are a lot of “good girls” and a small, but very prolific group of “stank hos” who somehow circulate amongst ppl.

      Actually, I just thought of a couple more scenarios:
      4. There are a lot more gay guys than you think.
      5. Everyone is not having as much sex as you’d think.

      Reply ↓

  42. I think some folk are missing the point that “good girl” has parentheses around it. I don’t think PJ is talking about women who know themselves and have their own personal set of standards that they adhere to and don’t play fiddy fiddy with people. I believe he’s talking about the “good girls” who cares to be perceived as a person with standards when in truth they have none to be recognized without them having to point it out. You know that saying the squeaky wheel gets the oil? To me that’s the perfect metaphor to a “good girl” because the squeaky wheel needs to be validated, whereas the other three wheels don’t have to protest because they work just fine on their own.

    Most of the “good girls” I know induce the serious sideye because they aren’t anywhere as good as they profess to be and then I know some women who have standards, and that’s the end all be all to it, who have no need to broadcast their goodness to show themselves approved.

    Reply ↓

    • First up, new guy, hey. Go easy on me.

      @Mrs Smiley Face I agree with you and Michele. The problem isn’t with the genuine good girl. The one that does good for herself and not to put on a good front for whomever is checking her out.

      It is the cocktease, the flirtatious platonic friend, the “My Ride, My Rules” woman, and the “Numbers” woman that call themselves good girls that are the problem.

      Reply ↓

    • co-sign!

      This is exactly what I got our of the post. Every “good girl” I know is a wanna be reformed ho who doesn’t drink anymore, is in church every time the doors are open, and spend most of their time looking down on those of us who have chose to define ourselves for ourselves, rather than run around trying to be some caricature of what is “good.”

      To me that’s the perfect metaphor to a “good girl” because the squeaky wheel needs to be validated, whereas the other three wheels don’t have to protest because they work just fine on their own.

      *nods head in agreement*

      Reply ↓

    • Yes there is a distinct difference based on truth….being your true self and in turn being true to everyone else.
      Not just doing something because you think it makes you look and/or sound “good”, but because thats who you truly are.

      Now not to say that can promiscuous folk can’t live, learn, and do better, reform, but still that involves truth.

      Reply ↓

    • “I think some folk are missing the point that “good girl” has parentheses around it. I don’t think PJ is talking about women who know themselves and have their own personal set of standards that they adhere to and don’t play fiddy fiddy with people. I believe he’s talking about the “good girls” who cares to be perceived as a person with standards when in truth they have none to be recognized without them having to point it out. ”

      Exactly. The quotes were definitely intentional. Think of it as Alex Trebek saying “…in quotation marks” after “good girl” like he does on Jeopardy. The emphasis is there for a distinct reason.

      Reply ↓

  43. See…in my head I’m a good person. But I thought I was also a good girl but after reading these rules I realize I’m not. Who are these frauds giving us good people a bad name? Who has 90 days to wait? Rules are stupid.

    I can’t even tell you what other rules apply because I go with the flow lol.. now I feel kinda sad for these girls…oh well. While your acting coy and stupid your dude is calling me and telling me how silly you are. There is a difference in being a lady/woman and being a ho all rules aside… it just seems these people have misplaced control issues.

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  44. One of my major problems with labels is that people use them and don’t know how to define what they are. Hoe – No one can define, the general assumption is that you’ll know one when you see one. Not good enough for me. Good girl – WTF is a good girl?!?!?! If you can’t define it, don’t use it. Low fat – WTF does low fat REALLY mean?!?! If the FDA can’t define it, don’t put that sh*t on a label. Ha!

    The other problem I have with labels is the inherent “better than” superiority complex that comes with it. The “I don’t secks until after a certain timeframe” so I don’t know why that “hoe” over there is getting wifed when I’m clearly better than her. Ummm actually no.

    I just think guys and chicks send out these various representatives in hopes to land someone. And then get mad when you reveal your true self (because you feel a sense of security) and the other person bounces. If you remain true to who YOU are (whether it’s getting jiggy on the first date, or wearing your headscarf during sleepovers or flat out disliking sports) the world would be a much simpler place. All of these so called rules/guidelines mask who you are. Besides aint no future in your fronting! I’m too secure in my greatness (flaws and all) to try to pretend to be something that I’m not simply because I fear of how some mofo that doesn’t really know me, will perceive me. So all the time sometimes I feel like a nut, some times I dont.

    Reply ↓

    • LMBO! I cosign. I don’t know why men care about this “hoe” phenomenom anyway. They sleep with us all and will marry the hoe and doesn’t even realized they married the hoe until after they said i do. They really should just get to know the woman. If you like her, then you like her.

      Reply ↓

    • The other problem I have with labels is the inherent “better than” superiority complex that comes with it. The “I don’t secks until after a certain timeframe” so I don’t know why that “hoe” over there is getting wifed when I’m clearly better than her. Ummm actually no.

      THIS!

      And yes, accepting who you are in all your glorious beauty, flaws et al is the beginning of freedom. And trust me, there is nothing like true freedom. Ask Nelson Mandela

      Reply ↓

  45. I can’t stand those clumpy fake eyelashes either P, sh*t look like a spider on your eye, chillin..very tacky, the really nice looking falsies COST..made out of mink etc and are very natural looking!

    I also hate french manicures, thats some other tacky shit, with them large white blocks of polish, smh..american manicures done right, are much classier and natural looking ladies!!!!!

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  46. I just hate females that don’t embrace their past…not necessarily this whole good girl/bad girl thing. I think men are perfectly fine with taking a woman as she is now (it works all the time) but have a problem with knowing that she was not consistent with her ideals, and values that she is trying to portray in the present. If you had (basic) Average values and ideals dont try to apply fancy, “good girl” rules on your current man. And before someone says this is a matter of maturation alone…no. This goes back to the enigma of relationship paradoxes listed a few days ago where women will sleep with men they are not interested in but hold out on the ones they are.
    Certain VSB’s will make VSS’s display some disingenuous traits and vice versa. I know everyone that has dated in here has dealt with someone that courted you in one way, and when they had you were not the same in some fashion or another.
    Last Point that ties this rant together (or attempts to): Umm, from a man standpoint he was very true when he stated that actions, not numbers make you a hoe in the eyes of others.
    Actions make u a freak..in a relationship.
    A realistic man knows that women have sex, especially when approaching a grown woman. This =numbers
    When we find out that you are playing good girl, and for a few men you weren’t even close to being a good girl thats when it becomes a problem.
    If women seek consistent success when it comes to dating, then you all need to reevaluate how you carry yourselves in general..not a case by case basis.
    That ’10th’ degree of seperation really helps a lot of women keep their value when it comes to playing this ‘Good girl’ ish

    Reply ↓

  47. To fellow VSBs to hell with finding a “good” girl. Find one that’s good for you. #terselikeamu’fuh

    ***Making 180 degree turn***
    Number 1 is making me actually contemplate downloading a few Nice & Smooth songs.

    Number 4 is a whole bunch of truth.

    Reply ↓

  48. Good post, PJ. I co-sign it all.

    Now, let’s answer these questions…

    1. what are other surefire signs of a “good girl”? “Good girls” are always the first to say what she doesn’t do, “I don’t drink, I don’t dance like that, I don’t wear short skirts, I don’t do happy hour, I can’t be seen at this place or that place”, blah blah blah. We’re having a conversation about where to go for dinner, what the heck are you talking about? On the flip side, they always want you to know when they were at church, and how many days/hours they are in church. You go to church, fine, so do I. And I don’t have to announce to the world about my church going activities because I don’t have to prove anything to the world. “Good girls” ususally can’t say the same.That’s the crux of the “good girl” issue. It’s all about trying to convince others that you fit into this box of BS that was created for women, and thus, you continue to perpetuate the BS.

    Another surefire sign of a good girl? Consantly criticizing another woman’sability to not be emotionally tied to a cut buddy personal choice, especially when those choices go against popular societal notions of what supposedly makes a “good girl”.

    2. You are not the only one who hates this phenomenon. Though, I may be one of few women today who will agree with you.

    3. How can we help them? Get them a drink, pass them a blunt, and get them laid? Or, we could just line them up in front of a firing squad, and eradicate them from out midst?

    Reply ↓

    • @N.I.A. – Your Paragraph 1a states so perfectly exactly what I was trying to formulate in my head. We *HAVE* to know some of the same stand on the mountain shouting “I am goodness, light and damn near perfect!” chicks. (Said mountain happens to be right next to the “I am independent, fly and don’t need a man for sh1t, but lonely.” mountaintop.)

      Double co-sign and sht.

      Reply ↓

    • Well said! except for this little lie:

      “Consantly criticizing another woman’sability to not be emotionally tied to a cut buddy ”

      women really not to stop this lie! emotional attachment is in your genetic dna code. Its how you have survived thus far. I blame white women for this myth! Some of you can go and pretend that you can hit without the feelings, but Sir Darwin would call you a bold face liar. But other than that, well said! stop the judgements ladies!

      Reply ↓

      • Actually, I think the whole “women are more emotionally tied to sex” is more of a social construct than the actual truth. And it has morphed into “the truth” mainly b/c men, who have long sought to control the sexuality of women, have convinced us women this is how we are, or at least this is how we should be.
        I can’t speak for anyone else, but I know I have been with a man purely for my own sexualy pleasure, not b/c I wanted a relationship or anything else. And this makes me “weird” b/c it goes against the idea of women being emotional, unstable, irrational creatures who can make rational decisions not led by emotions. The idea of a woman actually enjoying sex purely for the act and for personal pleasure, instead of using sex + emotion to trap a man, is looked down on by the masses. It’s funny when you really think about… and a little sad.

        Reply ↓

      • women really not to stop this lie! .

        While it may be a lie for you, I can’t speak for other women and say it’s a lie. Trying to make your truths other people’s truth is the disconnect with many things.

        Reply ↓

    • That’s the crux of the “good girl” issue. It’s all about trying to convince others that you fit into this box of BS that was created for women, and thus, you continue to perpetuate the BS. .

      Truth.Com

      Reply ↓

    • Oh my… “You did that!”… excellent breakdown my friend. However, execution? Ehh, I say let’s just ignore dey monkey @sses

      Reply ↓

  49. Any woman that claims she is “confused” about her feelings regarding mulitple suitors. Usually, it means she want’s to bang both to see which one she likes better, but doesn’t want to be judged.

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  50. I think folk are confusing the terms celibate and abstinent, celibate is a life long vow to GOD that you will not have sex in any form….abstinent, is abstaining from doing the do, for whatever reason, to keep mileage low, til you meet someone worthy, just taking a break etc

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  51. I think there’s a mix-up between being a “good girl” and “having standards and actually living up to them most of the time”

    Our society seems to find people with standards weird and unfriendly, mainly because this means they don’t fit into an easy-to-digest persona. “Good girls” are just that. You (supposedly) know what you’re getting. Whether it goes against your actual persona or not apparently means nada. So strange…..

    Reply ↓

    • yes and no. I find that sometimes people will respect you if they know you stand for something. the problem is the faux good girls are trying to reap this benefit without truly standing for something. the other issue is that, they may respect you for standing for something, but they may not want to be bothered with you because they don’t agree or don’t know what to do with you and your standards.

      Reply ↓

      • “but they may not want to be bothered with you because they don’t agree or don’t know what to do with you and your standards.”
        I think you articulated my point way better than I did LOL I’ve always been drawn to those kind of people, but I was in the minority while in school. Now, of course, those are the only kind of people I keep around me.

        Btw, Liz, do you have a vacuum for all this glitter? Dagnabit….it’s in my SOCKS, man! lol

        Reply ↓

  52. I can’t stand the “good girl” phenomenon. Damn near every woman that I’ve met that put this front up was kind of loose and got it in with mad dudes If this is what you do then do it. If you don’t like the repercussions, labels, or consequences of your actions then use some discretion in whom you sleep with. I’m still trying to figure out why I attracted so many of these women. I’ve had the easiest chics play me on some “90-day” ish. For some reason Detroit has a plethora of these type of fronting women. It never fails they present the “good girl” image and talk the abstinate, celibate, 90 day, etc. ish and within that time you talk to them getting to know them they tell you indirectly that they’ve been around the block.

    “A woman can sleep with 100 men and not be considered a ho. Then you can have a chick whose boned 5 guys who’s the biggest ho everybody knows. It’s not just a numbers game. It’s an actions game.”

    Cosign. I’ve known chics that got it in with mad dudes and no one knew they were doing it. They let anybody hit but they carried themselves in a way that no one knew. I’ve also known women that may have dealt with a few dudes that people knew and get the ho label. These women were not ho’s at all. It’s not a numbers game. Most women depending on location pass the 50+ partner mark easily. The way you carry yourself can dictate the label.

    The thing is to be who you are and roll with it. If you don’t like how you are perceived then change your actions.

    Reply ↓

    • It sounds to me you are talking about liars and that’s a completely different thing. Sleeping with the town and claiming not to is different. And in Jay-Z’s voice “I don’t believe you” or Panama when you say numbers don’t count. That wouldn’t be the first thing ya’ll ask us if it didn’t matter to you. Numbers do count and who counts too. If I’m 30 and have slept with 50 guys then you can assume one thing about me: I’m easy.

      Reply ↓

      • Tell em SFG… numbers count B!

        @Humble_One you know d@mn well a chik with a high number is not meeting moms… and depending on how high you may not even wanna hit. Keep it 100… #sideeye

        Reply ↓

    • If you don’t like how you are perceived then change your actions. .

      This is what it all boils down to.

      There is power in owning and standing behind your decisions. And I think the problem is that people make decisions and then worry about how they may look. If you make WHATEVER decision you feel is right for you, be prepared to stand behind it. I always respect anyone that can stand behind their decision, despite what I or anyone else may think about it.

      Reply ↓

    • @SmartFoxGirl & Yeah…So

      Im not talking about liars. But then again you are lying if you put up a front. These ‘good girls’ do the stereotypical ish they think ‘good girls’ do. After a while you see the real them. It’s a shame when you have to put up a front b/c you are ashamed or can’t control who you are. Do numbers matter? Yes they do. Not for reasons of ‘angelic purity’
      but for reasons of self-respect and health. At the same time I realize that when get it easier and more often than men so they will have significant numbers. There are exceptions to the rule but I haven’t met too many women that have only had sex in 1-3 LTR in our age range(27 and up)

      Reply ↓

      • You’ve met me. It may sound like a front but I get hit on alot and my number is between 1 and 3. I don’t consider myself a good girl but I do respect my body and health. This shouldn’t be a “good girl problem” and guys shouldn’t call it frontin. And trust my number would be waaaaay higher if I didn’t set rules for myself.

        Reply ↓

      • How is saying “I don’t wanna cut yet, we’ve only know each other 2 months” a front… maybe if you knew I was gettin to the getdown wit someone else that I had only known two weeks (then yeah, side eye to me for that), but setting poramoters for myself so I can maintain a nice comfortable 1-5 LTR (@ 27 and up). I liken this to when someone is like “Damn, I shole would love a chocolate chip milkshake *cough looks @ Champ* eryday, but I know I don’t EVEN need to be messin with dat sh!t like dat… let me just wait and treat myself to one at the end of the month”… what is the difference?

        Reply ↓

    • The Down Low Ho

      @Humble_One
      You must be my long lost twin. Hearing your relationship plights is affirmation that ho acquisition is not just a Mr. Sobo phenomenon.

      I’ve come to learn that hoes come in many shapes, sizes and colors.
      The packaging may be different, but the product is the same.

      I, personally, could care less how anyone chooses to live their lives. If a woman wants to sleep with whomever, whenever, it is her prerogative. If she has 80+ doods under her belt, thats her prerogative. That is most certainly not a problem for me. However, my issue are the lies and gross misrepresentation of oneself that usually accompany such behavior.
      So I cosign your response Humble_One 100%.
      If a person can’t be true to his/herself and others about their ways, then perhaps he/she shouldn’t be doing those things.
      I’m not suggesting a woman should broadcast her business from the mountaintops. However, it is a problem when she goes to any lenghts great or small to deliberately misrepresent herself in any way shape or form. That is both false and manipulative and a clear indication that her intentions are not good.
      If chexing random doods willy nilly is your thing, be proud of it and own it. You’ll get a ton more respect from me that way, than if you live a life full of secrecy, manipulation and deception. That may seem odd, but it’s true. Its the lies and deceit that makes the distinction between a woman simply “doing her thang” vs. a nasty ho @ss b*tch. To me anyways.

      My philosophy is simple: Live the life you love, so long as you love the life you live.

      So if you have to hide in ‘shame’ and live in ‘disgraceful’ secrecy, then maybe you have no business continuing to do ‘shameful’ and ‘disgraceful’ things that warrant such secrecy.

      Reply ↓

      • I agree with everything you said except for one thing: if you truly love a woman and are considering making her your wife, it would hurt you to know that her number is 80+. That would make her easy in your eyes. Maybe you wouldn’t feel that “special”. I think when a man grows feelings for a woman, he starts to have expectations of her…this is one of them.

        Reply ↓

        • @SFG
          The only way that knowledge would hurt me is if she lied about it and I found out later on after I fell in love. The point is that if she is real about herself, I would have known off the rip, and might have loved her regardless. This is why it’s important to be up front from the jump.

          See, put it this way.
          Lets say you meet a man that is wonderful that you considered making your husband, only to find out he had a girlfriend before and during your entire relationship with him, wouldnt that hurt you? He lied, manipulated and misrepresented his situation and himself to you. Now how is that any different than a chick doing the same with her character?

          The common problem with both these situations is that they rob one person of a CHOICE. As a person looking for a significant other, isnt it your right to pick and choose your ideal mate based on your own standards & expectations? Why should it be okay for someone else to dupe you into loving them?
          Who is to say that if she would be upfront about her lifestyle that the man wouldn’t be able to look beyond that and see the beauty within her regardless. That question can never be answered so long as he is not given the choice to make that decision for himself to proceed.
          Likewise, with the example I gave of the man with the girlfriend. Had you known his status up front, you would have the choice to either pursue your involvement with him or to curtail the relationship immediately. Whatever you decided would have been your own free CHOICE based on your knowledge.

          Reply ↓

          • I agree 100%! Any one who lies and deceives robs you of choice. I think I said that a few times on here. I was more referring to you saying numbers don’t matter. If you knew up front, you would still see her the same. That is a hypothetical scenario because if the number was high…she wouldn’t tell you. You also wouldn’t know ish about her actions. Cause you know I learned that the hard way…never go into detail about your chexing.

            Reply ↓

            • For me its not so much about numbers than it is about being honest about one’s nature. Your number doesnt really mean that much to me. Its how honest you are about how you get down. So long as there are no falsehoods or illusions about how you live your life, combined with other aspects of your character, then everything is all good in my book.

              Reply ↓

            • if you have been with more than another person outside of the person you are dating…that is too much. Sure, you know that they are not virgins, but you dont want to really know. if a man you cared about said that he had been with 100+ women, you would be disgusted. So he will tell you that he has been with 15 in order to keep you.

              Men lie, women lie, and numbers lie

              realistically, does it really matter what a person does before they are with you as long as they come with no drama, are healthy, want to be with you, and treat you well.

              Reply ↓

              • @Jai
                It has nothing to do with that. I think a lot of women on here are completely missing the point. The thread is not about a woman’s past indescretions.
                It’s about her representation of herself. In other words, living a lifestyle that is not consistent with her portrayal of herself. That is the topic at hand.
                Men on here are generally saying that being a ‘bad girl’ is fine, so long as you are honest about your ‘bad girl’ ways. But being a ‘bad girl’ pretending to be a ‘good girl’ is the problem. It’s misleading and dishonest.

                It really has nothing to do with her numbers, but moreso how she gets down as a woman. If she’s okay with having no strings attached s*x, then why front like she don’t get down like this on the reg. If you love giving head, why front like you dont do it often if you do.
                Give the sweet innocent girl routine a rest and just be yourself. Thats the topic.
                Its not about who’s a ho. It’s about those who go around pretending to be more pure than they really are.

                Reply ↓

              • @Mr SoBo…i agree, I was just responding to the comments about how important numbers are. Unless I was there during every encounter, with a clipboard and a sharpie, checking off every chex acts, ‘special kisses’, etc. who am i to say how many numbers one has and if it is relevant? i can’t and I won’t.

                Reply ↓

              • I think women make more of a big deal over the numbers than men.
                As adult men, we care, but not as much as you think.
                Women make more of an issue out of it than we do, because for many, the approach is to convey illusion that one’s experience is limited. I think when men ask, its usually a result of some inconcistent thing the woman did or said that prompted such an inquiry.
                I personally don’t even ask how many partners a woman has because it’s pointless to even entertain such a conversation. Why? Because I know I will be lied to 107.98% of the time.

                Reply ↓

              • Numbers don’t matter to me. If a man’s number is low, I would think he’s not experienced or he’s frontin. I love a man who knows what he’s doing. I was responding to the men who said that a women’s numbers don’t matter to him because history shows otherwise. Sobo is rare. Trust, men care….and if the number is high, don’t tell em. Lie like a persian rug.

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  53. I’m going to completely put myself our there with this good girl cr@p that PANAMA (yes shouting) keeps spitting out. I love you like fish and bammy but you have a few things wrong about “good girls”: Unless you have waited until marriage to have sex….you are NOT a good girl. Period.

    Being that most of us have premarital relations, we are not good girls and making rules doesn’t make you a “good girl”…it just means you put a little value onto yourself or are trying to prevent yourself from being PLAYED by men. If I sound angry, please excuse as I am fighting a cold and my pregnant boss is driving my bonkers! I’m going in on this post. Wayne and Drake.

    First off, YES I set rules. I don’t care who doesn’t like it or thinks it’s foolish. The reason why I do this is to try to preserve myself in some way and because I don’t trust myself around men. Once you turn me on, it’s a wrap. If I didn’t set rules for myself, I would have slept with at least 50 dudes by now and YES that would make me a hoe. Numbers do count, sorry you’re wrong about that. C’mon Panda, if your girl told you she slept with 48 dudes she wouldn’t be a hoe to you? That’s an action babe. Chicks get hit on alot (especially if your attractive) and many men can be wolves in sheeps clothing. Ya’ll don’t show ya’ll @sses until at least 3 months in. If I didn’t try to set some rules for myself, my life would be drama and I would be SCORNED and ya’ll would be the first ones talkin ish about me being a hoe or man hater.

    If you want to talk about actions, then yes I’m a hoe. Let me put it this way, with my ex (one man, not 50), I’ve done it all. Yes everything…we chexed liked rabbits! I let him put it anywhere he wanted, an@l, etc I experimented with everything with him because I LOVED him. If that makes me a hoe then so be it. I don’t really care what men think women should do with our bodies. You guys love to break women’s hearts. More of us should make you wait and work for it. We would have alot less problems amongst our people like hiv, aids, stds, pregnancies, etc. My mother did everything right with me. Everything! Because of her, my life has been good. I’m not perfect but I’m definitely different from alot of women out there and if a man wants to bounce because I don’t sleep with him right away…then BOUNCE NUCCA! *grace jones face*….cause I tell ya’ll like this: if you want to get to know me and things work out, we can take this to another level. J@ck off before our dates…hell I’ll even help you but it’s not the focul point of our getting to know each other cause you can sex me upside down and still not know me.

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    • *Dips in upside down like Spider-Man, hands e-bouquet and Vicks Lemon VapoRub to SFG*

      You’re not a ho, my dear. You are a woman standard, just like all of the VSSs. I think this directed mainly towards women who come across as a chaste “good girl” that walk around with giant displays of being a good girl and they look down and talk bad about hos when it in actuality, it’s like “Hey, ain’t you a ho like she is?” And when I say ho, I don’t mean a woman that is sexually active or a woman that does freaky stuff with the man she is with. Ain’t nothing wrong with a freak. Got to spice it up. I mean a ho as in you did all that freaky stuff to half of my line brothers and you wondering why I am looking at you like a doorknob. It is the same thing with men, too, who are probably worse, but we would get into that whole double standard thing but that would be like taking a M16 to a pasture full of dead horses. Feel better, love.

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      • you forgot the upside down spidey kiss. yummy. Before we are told to get a room….
        Yes I realize after I read other comments that he was referring to the fronters. He threw me with the timelines and guidelines are yada yada yada. Cause aint nothing wrong with preserving my sexy for a man who deserves it. I’m sorry but there are so many frauds out there it’s hard to tell right away. Gotta wait and feel you nuccas out. Like I’m feelin on you right now…does that make me a c*cktease? lmao

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        • *Web breaks, falls and bumps head because of kiss*

          You, as a lady, do have to be careful nowadays and really men need to realize that women are being more careful and smarter about who they have s3x with. The ones that easily spread their legs at a moment’s notice are the ones you might have to worry about. And no, it doesn’t make you a c*cktease. Just very dangerous with rope and blunt objects.

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    • @SFG – here’s the problem with this whole “numbers do count” thing: NOBODY WILL EVER KNOW YOUR NUMBERS ANYWAY. it’s a moot point. yeah i used the number 100 up there and okay, i can see why everybody is on that, “yes you a ho” thing. but half the dudes we all know are probably madly in love with some chick who’se had as much d*ck as he’s had poon. he just won’t know. ever. talk is talk. now its one thing if a whole team comes to him and is like, yeah, we all ran the biggest locomotion on that girl ever. but after you get ouf of college, how does that even come up? i got a friend who refuses to date chicks if they know ANYBODY on certain Alpha lines from morehouse. that is ridiculous. there’s liek 10 alphas for every 1 non-alpha at morehouse. lol. i went back for homecoming and thought we’d changed our school colors to black and gold and adoped the Pirates hat as our official symbol.

      point is, the numbers thing really doesnt come into play as much as we like to think it does. further, what you do with your man doesnt make you a ho. what you do with random man you met yesterday whose name eludes you might make you a ho. big difference.

      i said as much yesterday when this very post idea was birthed.if you chose to take me at a literal “actions” to mean i think you’d be a ho then you’re wrong.

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      • I actually realize I mis-read your post. I typed my comment before reading others. Plus I get a sick pass. I saw yesterday when you said this so I wasn’t surprised at the post today. You are DEF right about not knowing a woman’s numbers. If the number is low, she’ll sang it to the high mountains. If it’s high, she won’t say ish. If you ask, you’ll get a low number. People lie period. That’s why I don’t ask. I feel like I’ve said my # more than once on here and caught myself today. It really doesn’t matter. I’ve done some hoe things because I love hoe things. You can call me a hoe if you want, I don’t mind.

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      • the numbers thing really doesnt come into play as much as we like to think it does .

        Numbers is so elementary. I retired my abacus back in first grade. LOL

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        • And I wonder who are those grown ups talking about their “numbers”? Does that really happen in grown up relationships?? Like really?

          Wow.

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  54. *cranks that Cheekie all over this comment in honor of the born-day*

    Anyhow, I told Panama I’ll offer up some more thoughtful insights now that it’s no longer #vsbdafterdark…

    “1. The rules have absolutely no rhyme or reason, they don’t rhyme slow or quick”

    Yeah, I’ve never understood the 90-day rule as some sort of hardfast trial period that makes any real difference in terms of number of days alone. I figured someone just made some obscure number up, promoted it to the masses, and folks were like, “Hmm, that seems like a nice reasonable number for a reason unbeknownst to me…guess it sounds good?” and ran with it.

    “2. It’s usually disingenuous”

    I do notice this happening a lot. Sort of like the chick who claims virginity but gives great dome on Sundays.

    “3. It’s all a front and its fooling nobody”

    I think the front is usually in response to how men and society have pre-labeled her. Thing is, how you react to it is ultimately what separates the girls from the women…to put it bluntly. I know it may be easier said than done, but on the serious tip, we have GOT to stop allowing folks to put label stickers on our forehead (hmm, this seems to be a popular body part today…lol) and make choices based on how we feel. Who WE are. And who we are is only determined by us. K? K.

    “4. Everything isn’t that damn confusing”

    Your posts are. #shotsfired

    But seriously, usually yes, folks make things more confusing than they actually are…which actually does make the thing that wasn’t confusing in the first place…confusing. Confused? Great.

    “5. If you have to suppress who you are to make yourself look better….”

    Yeah, that’s pretty sad. As I said before, it is ALSO said that society’s thought process is this way and we should be looking to change it (as I ain’t down with it feeding these messages to more susceptible folks…like ya know, children and Sarah Palin), but at the end of the day, the only one who has to be you is…you. Supressing who you really are in order to appear better will only make you look worse. Again, easier said than done, but don’t do it. Let that little light of yours shine. Whether it is a chaste light or a ho light. Or anything in between. Don’t let Kat Stacks win.

    Reply ↓

    • Actually that virgin Sunday dome is the most exquisite you can ever have. Paradoxically, most of the available women in the pews on Sunday are not virgins. You can imagine my disappointment, week in and week out hoping that this time I’d find the one, only to be disappointed yet again with just acceptable brain.

      I think I’m going to start trying the Korean churches next. . .

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  55. I’d like to add that chik that’s a friend of your friend (cause you don’t roll with chiks that act like dat) *flashback* who be faking all shy and sh!t and then the second you turn around dis b!tch is passed out on the f!cking couch wit some random dudes hand on her breast and tongue down her throat about to get y’all kicked out of the club cuz erytime you step away dis trick is falling asleep… ugh.

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  56. 100 guys?! You’re a ho. A professional ho at that! You don’t need to be paid to be a professional. You’re just doing a lot of pro bono work. Heck, with 100 you’re probably walking around dropping with d*&ks falling out of you on the sidewalk.

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  58. #5 really says it all. good post.

    reading the comments has me sorta intrigued by the virgin/celibacy issue. I’ve only attempted purposed celibacy once and that was in my earrllllly 20s, like age 20. lol. When I want to have sex I do, when I don’t I don’t. I don’t really have a principle behind it other than I’m kinda finicky, particular and sometimey.

    I agree with the 90 day rule itself being dumb, but I also understand the need for some sort of discernment and caution.

    I also don’t really believe in the notion of “good girls” but I live in a world of gray–everyone has some good and some bad in them. *shrugs*

    Reply ↓

    • but I live in a world of gray–everyone has some good and some bad in them .

      I JUST told my friend the other day that I am not a black and white person. There are very few things that are strictly black or white for me. I prefer gray all day.

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  59. “Bad girls sell it; good girls give it away.”
    – my grandmother

    I am Penelope, and I endorse the f*ck out of this post.

    Please excuse me while I lay down my tambourine and my burdens, and flip down the aisle– for you, Panama, have shared a word today.

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  60. I almost didn’t comment because I don’t date. It makes for a lot of sitting at home and walking around the block.
    There’s a comment that SFG said above that summed me up perfectly..
    “Once you turn me on, it’s a wrap.”
    Thus, there have been several times when I’ve been chillin with someone and things have gotten elevated. I know that there’s a line that there’s no coming back from once it’s crossed. I am that chick . So I’m careful who I get in that position with. I was walking in the park with a dude and he invited me back to his place (matter of factly too.) I know that he wasn’t trying to show me his CD collection.
    I don’t have any hard or fast rule. I’m a vibe person (in every way) so if the vibe is right, then I’m going with that. I will say that I just am more discerning about the scenarios that I get myself into.
    That is all..

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    • Amen and if you have no regrets then you’re doing what’s right for you. It’s called being smart and using judgement. Not throwing yourself at every guy you like (hearing the vsbs above say oh yeah girl sleep with 50+ dudes we don’t care) then trying to figure out why you’re not getting respect. I know you’re a smart girl and that is what we should all be. Not act now then cry later. lol

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  61. Man I’ve missed this blog. Stupid, stupid study abroad wrecking my schedule. Looks like I’ve missed some good posts and comments.

    I just had the good girl conversation yesterday. I’ve used the term to describe me before but I never intended to imply that I’m all virtous and pure as the driven snow. I just didn’t know another label for “not a ho.” Anywhoodle, I don’t have a particular time limit and I do what feels right, when it feels right. I just wonder why guys’ response to the “good girl” label is almost always “we both grown?” I also wonder why keyboards in the U.K. trying to mess up my WPM.

    Happy Birthday Cheekie!

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  62. So let me be clear about something since I’ve received 3 death threats, a picture of a cocker spaniel (wtf?), and a gang of folks told me I’m just mean…lol.

    I’m not talking about your run of the mill actual good girl. It’s why its in quotes. I’m talking about your faking the funk chicks. Period. The chicks who put up the front so that we all think they’re actual good girls, whatever that means.

    Also, a lot of the comments reek of validation through the eyes of men. That’s your bad, not mine. If you are determining what makes you good based on what you assume men do or say, that’s your bad. On this very site we’ve gone on at length about how much of what women assume about us ain’t even that true. Of quality cats anyway (whether i’m a quality cat is open for debate, except I don’t give a f*ck).

    While I understand this reasoning in principal, I think it casts the same blanket generalization that guys get accused of. Men created these stereotypes, etc…ok. So it’s a chicken versus egg thing. Great. At some point, somebody’s got to make an omelet with a side of chicken. You cant be mad at something if you keep perpetuating it.

    Once again though, I’m not even talking about women who play it safe or make certain decisions to do or not do things for various reasons. That makes sense. And I don’t think a chick should wang down every dude she’s attracted to…same as i think dudes shouldn’t. I got offered soem homeless poontang just this morning and I said no, I’m trying to keep my numbers down…for myself. Not for some future woman. Okay that’s a lie. I’m not trying to keep my numbers down but the last homeless chick i boned was boring as f*ck.

    Also, the 100 dudes thing…y’all so literal. I’m prone to exaggeration (obviously) so perhaps I could have toned that number down to something more…reasonable (whatever that means). Here’s the thing, how would anybody really know anyway? After a certain age, nobody talks numbers b/c we all know we aint discovering anything new.

    Oh and i saw LIz’s bum ass comment about my inconsistent use of the quotes…lol. oh well. there where they’re needed most.

    THE TITLE.

    Reply ↓

    • Well let me just say there is something very non-3 about your attitude thru-out dis WHOLE comment and I like it! Rrrrrrrrrrrrrrrr

      as you were.

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    • Also, a lot of the comments reek of validation through the eyes of men. That’s your bad, not mine. If you are determining what makes you good based on what you assume men do or say, that’s your bad. . and You cant be mad at something if you keep perpetuating it. ..

      I can not agree more with this!

      We cry about the double standards and other ish, but keep perpetuating the bs and then having the nerve to cry about it and blame everyone else without admitting our role in it. *le sigh*

      Reply ↓

    • I got offered soem homeless poontang just this morning and I said no, I’m trying to keep my numbers down

      I don’t know, folk…that homeless ‘tang may have been the business…I’m just sayin…

      Reply ↓

    • Isn’t homeless poon tang smelly poon tang?…just sayin. If it was a gummy then…but her breath would stink. What? Oh what were we talking about again? Um…carry on.

      I think we (I included) mis-read some of what you said. I still love you like fish and bammy…burnt fish and stale bammy but I love you all the same.

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  63. Going back and reading some of the comments. It seems like a nerve was struck somewhere and it turned into “BASH-ALL-MALES-A-THON” and I just wonder how many women out there are what Panama hates?

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  65. I think this 90 day rule assessment is funny….@Liz had a really good point… we do know how flaky you can be by at least day 20- not even 45. So why waste the energy to put out on the first or third night? I mean then that would mean we only think with our peaches and in turn make us… well just like men. o_O You get to a point in life where you don’t want the nonsense so you hold out until you’re a bit better than sure about a man.

    Point is it doesn’t necessarily have to be a prescribed “90 days”- could be 10 could be 100 could be 5. I think any woman that’s looking for something solid will reserve the cookies and milk as a good midnight snack for someone who she feels will definitely be there in the morning and lots of mornings after that…..

    Reply ↓

    • @DayDreamer – i couldnt agree with you more. which means it’s not you i’m talking about. and all men don’t think with our johnsons.

      most of us think with our hearts and want to love you all down proper. dont you listen to 2 Live Crew??!?!

      Reply ↓

      • @Panama Jackson…..Ahh yes, the great, prophetic words of 2 Live Crew. They soothe my soul…And yes, all men DO think with their johnsons. I know you’re gonna wince at this but….Uncle Steve said ‘The goal of all men is sex. Period.’ (maybe not today or tomorrow but it’s def a top 3 goal) If he said nothing more true, it was that. If a man’s goal isn’t sex, he’s probably ghey. *toots up booty and walks away*

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      • *snicker* @ P and yes DAY, its as simple as that but not a midnight snack tho LOL more like a 5 course gourmet meal @ a 5 star establishment.

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  66. The only thing I can say to this is “Me too Bruh.”
    Them fraudulent good girls, them trollops in respectable women’s clothing, those “Just because I am dressed this way does not make me a whore” girls…triffling on so many levels which gives us genuinely good girls a bad rep. So no bueno. When people tell me now “Tes, you’re such a good girl,” I just roll my eyes and say thank you.

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  67. An’ another one… VSB is among my morning rituals. It mek me heppy. :)

    Sorry if I’m being redundant with my comments… I need to make VSB a nightly ritual. :) Other surefire signs of a good girl:

    She has a plan. This is the single most diabolical, delusional, destructive, d–k-teasing form of relationship retardation and good-girl silliness I’ve ever seen. You think 90 days is bad? I’ve heard three-year married with family plans from SINGLE chicks. Is you crazy? Sigh.

    The impenetrable white-girl press. She might melt into a puddle or explode into pixie dust if she sweats out her hair or her edges. The best things in life are sweaty. Sucks to your asmar.

    The tiffany charm bracelet or its knock off. I actually have one I don’t wear because it feels like the bourgie equivalent of a bandana tied over my fivehead. Men, if you see a chick wearing one of these run fast and far. Or, if you like that kind of thing, bring your resume, transcript, deeds, roses, chocolate, credit report, medical history, and five year personal strategic plan to your first date. You’ll live happily ever after together.

    The nasty-niceness. They’re queens of backhanded compliments.
    Money checking. They don’t want it if it’s not the most expensive available.
    Paparazzi loving. They act like a simple photo of a good time is an editorial in Harper’s Bazaar. Don’t offer to take their picture, you’ll be there all night.
    General disdain. They tend to look down their nose at everything. How do you have any fun? Oh, I forgot. Fun involves sweating.

    How can we help? Stop enabling them. Men, since they often look like your photo, and sex is one of the most powerful phenomena known to mankind, they’re unstoppable. Hot roosterteasers will never be obsolete. Women befriend them because they envy them and also fall for the good-girl fantasy. Eff that. Tell them about themselves. Quit getting bukkit-nekkit together and marrying so they can make and raise more little psychos.

    Hmph, harumph, and quadruple HUMPH!!!!

    I abhor the good girl with every fiber of my being. Thank you kindly.
    Happy Wednesday.

    Reply ↓

    • Thats not Michele’s descrip of “Nicety”, her’s is more moi’ LOL
      “meyen running the same ol same……”

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    • I gotta cosign on this whole post, esp. the part re: the white-girl press. I know hair is important to many sisters, but if I ask you to go parasailing or jet-skiing w/ me and you let your hair be a deterrent, that’s a fail…(makes me appreciate women who rock naturals…)

      And this…”General disdain. They tend to look down their nose at everything. How do you have any fun? Oh, I forgot. Fun involves sweating”… This is the worst…a close-minded chick who is critical and/or complains about everything = TOTAL FAIL…Women (and men) like this are such killjoys…like you can’t even seem to appreciate the lil’ pleasures in life ‘cuz you constantly focusing on the negative…

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  68. I’m a bit confused. So do you hate actual “good girls”, or not so good girls creating rules to appear to be something that they are not?

    Like I said on yesterday’s post, making a guy of interest way in fear that he might think you loose, while getting the cheese off your chest with another is just selling dreams. You’re an imposter. You may actually be loose by your own definition. If you are making him wait so you can see if he is worth adding to the roster, that’s sensible. As I also said yesterday, you are either a h0e or you aren’t. Doesn’t really have so much to do with time restraints. How you are categorized is relative to the person doing the categorizing. Do what you choose to do based upon you, your thoughts, beliefs, upbringing or what have you, not based upon what someone may or may not think. if you wanna be a freak day one, the guy you want might appreciate that. Or not. But the guy who thinks less of you because of it, may not be the guy for you anyway. Ionno.

    While I’m not chexin now, I wouldn’t label myself a good girl…you just aint gonna get it. Period. Why, because at this stage of MY life, the physical alone doesn’t get it. This does not mean that I never have the desire, I’m a prude, or didn’t enjoy it in the past. I’m not a tease, as I won’t lead you to think you will get it either. Am I uncomfortable talking about chex? No, I’m not a vergin, I’ve used my vajona. I’m a grown up so I can discuss it comfortably.

    for the loosey goosey’s posing out there, if you think negatively about doing what you do, work on why you do what you do, but don’t promote yourself as something you are not. nobody believes you anyway.

    PJ is right, if you feel you need to tell someone you’re a “good girl”, you’re probably not.

    I wonder how some of these convos even go down…”you have to wait 90 days, cause I’m a good girl…” Really? gtfohwtbs.

    PS-if you are telling men you are a good girl, or you have these rules, a lot of times it’s just gonna make him try you in that area even harder. In their heads is “yeah, right”. lol.

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  69. The very concept of a good girl is troubling – grown women running around proclaiming to be good girls…*kissteeth* grow up. How old are we, 8? “Good girl” is just another societal creation to label and control behavior, society created a game of smoke and mirrors for women to play, good luck trying to change the rules Panama, because they are ancient and have been bought and paid for in full, lol.
    What in the world is a good girl? – is that what you say to your pet dog when she decides to sit still and wait for a cookie?
    I’m a grown woman – a moral one. I know the kind of person I aim and live to be, as long as I’m that person that’s all that matters. I’m not going to try to bend myself to fit into a mold that is too small for my full “womaness”, lol. So if my woman is too much woman for you, good or bad, get to steppin’!
    Oh and so many men have bought into the good girl concept – po’ thangs. They have a mold into their heads and sometimes women will pretend just to fit into that idea. They want the idea of a woman, not the real woman.

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  70. can we all just agree that:

    all of us here have our own experiences/definitions on how we should conduct our lives?

    men and women are socialized differently so govern ourselves through different rules?

    there are no universal truths as everything (esp written) is open for (mis and multiple) interpretations?

    that pj + champ like the commenting banter because it = readers = potential voters = potential revenue? <–im not a blogger, so i dont know about the $ part.

    that vss' + vsb's like the commenting banter because it = sheds light on the the opposite sex way of thinking (without really having to care because we are mostly all strangers who will never meet in real life anyways)= decreases productivity at work = increases e-booism?

    men and women are never going to see eye-to-eye (or is it forehead to forehead) about the murky, BP-oil ridden waters that is relationships?

    can't we????

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    • I don’t know about the others (haven’t thought about them much… and don’t think I want to) but I can answer this tidbit:
      men and women are never going to see eye-to-eye (or is it forehead to forehead) about the murky, BP-oil ridden waters that is relationships?

      Relationships are simple enough when the greatest relationship of all is simple enough. That is the relationship with and to yourself. Once you have that figured out, the rest becomes easier. There are people all over the place in happy marriages and relationships, and I don’t think any of them is Einstein… They are just happy being who they are and found someone who was as happy being who they were as well.

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  71. *puts tin of popcorn down*

    The issue is not “good girls” or rather good women. The issue is fake women, also known as fake bishes. Adele Givens told ya’ everyone hates a fake bish.

    Calculating, playing the role, disingenuous, only for appearances, no integrity, no decorum, no substance azz fake bishes is effin’ it up for everyone! (said part jokingly, but the short on substance trifilin’ men and women do create problems)

    Let’s not not confuse the issue and demonize good girls and/or good women because fake bishes are playing a role. Good women are not playing games, they are in their partner’s corner, they are supportive, sexual, freaky, sensual, loving, appreciative, honest, genuine, have substance, have a sense of humor about themselves, human and flawed. This post of “good girls” in quotations should not have people hesitating to describe themselves as a “good girl” because a fake bish done put a monkey wrench in thangs and used the same description as a misnomer.
    “Good Girl” in quotations=”Fake bish” (and no, foul or not, I’m not calling a fake bish a woman)

    1. Past VSB posts rightfully claimed that the number and double standard of sex and sexual partners for women DOES exist. For guys saying the contrary, kudos to you. For women who don’t give a eff and decide for THEMSELVES, kudos to you. Decide for yourself knowing the double standard is in place.

    2. Sometimes a woman’s number will not stay secret. Ninjas talk…especially if you travel in some similar circles and run into someone. I personally don’t have high number (not said to thrust some pseudo good girl vibe, but to be transparent in my account and experience and provide context of my point of view), but for the Good Woman I know that do they ran into that ninja at the conference or wherever and he got to flappin’ his lips when she wasn’t down for a re-cap of past occurrences. Wack dude scenario messin’ it up for good dudes. Charge that to the game. That is why some folks may change past practices.

    3. If you wanna’ do the 90-day rule and it makes sense to you, do it. Breaking it early for a guy who thinks it’s dumb doesn’t mean he is gonna stick around. If your experience shows that dudes get funny style at day 45 and it’s of value, DO YOU! It’s like a crack-head trying to talk you out of 5 dollars. Consider the source.

    Love the dialogue and good points made by all!

    *picking up tin of popcorn*

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    • “It’s like a crack-head trying to talk you out of 5 dollars.” Should be changed to “It’s like a crackhead trying to talk you out of all your money.” It was not my intention to suggest anyone’s “goodies” is equivalent to a fiver….although there are some 5-dollar azz ninjas…but I digress.

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    • We needed this clarification LS! It was gettin hazey in here. You have a way of putting it all into perspective. Da hell if I know what these ninjas want. *hops on hoemobile and rides off*

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    • #2 thats what I try to tell young girls/other women, DC ain’t but this big *plucks finger* (and its radioActive), and word travels fast, then reps tend to have staying power like a mofo, so once you have been labled a roller, ho etc seems like brawds never live that sh*t down, ever!!!! You really don’t want that , not a good look at all, I have witnessed dudes clown and talk really bad bout some women known apparently for some thangs!

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      • I have witnessed dudes clown and talk really bad bout some women known apparently for some thangs! .

        And that right there makes the guys wiggity wiggity wack. Let me hear a ninja say some ish like that, I’m calling his azz out. Like mofo, weren’t you right there with her doing that hoshyt?!? GTFOOH!

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        • VRenee….gurl don’t you know men can’t be hoes….they are just men. We da hoes…not dem gurl get it right. (insert sarcasm) now THAT is the pot callin the kettle black.

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      • Thanks, Ladies :)

        @ Orange Star Happy Hunting,
        Yes, ma’am! Sister could run into one dude that would as one of my sister-friends put it “publicize the color and texture of her ‘public’ hairs (Love you, Bernie Mac, RIP)” and all because she didn’t wait 90 days (shots fired, I kid, I kid!*) and regretted chexing an immature dude.

        *Really kidding. I meant what I said. Women decide when they are ready and comfortable with their bodies. Please, just know some pre-conceived notions and double standards have not gone away. Please also know that chexing before or after 90 days doesn’t mean dude will stick around or that you’ll even want him to.

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    • For women who don’t give a eff and decide for THEMSELVES and Consider[ing] the source.

      I could not agree with this ^^^ more. And that pretty much sums it up for me. Again, I’m not big on convincing anyone just how “good” I am…when truth be told, I simply consider myself to be “seasoned…well.” However, being well-seasoned doesn’t appeal to everyone….heyal some folks prefer “the bland types” which is cool, but that ain’t “she”. But you know what?… I’m good with that. I figure I’ll appeal to the one whose all for whatever it is I’m puttin’ down and likewise he’ll want me on his team, with the possibility that I’ll oblige.

      And its funny how this topic brings a recent scenario to mind…a recent scenario I superstitiously believe my GF conjured up based on a recent convo we had: Lo and behold, the [recent] yet very candid proposal of an old acquaintance. Funny how ish works sometimes.

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  72. Sounds like we might have to apply the (TM).

    So just like society at large has recently decided there’s such a thing as the Nice Guy (TM), maybe his partner in crime is the Good Girl (TM)? Sounds reasonable.

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  73. so after reading the comments, i can’t help but add:

    -why do women insist on putting themselves into boxes and get upset when men do the same. “Good girl”, “ho” are we serious??????? People are even trying to come up with definitions for “ho”, LMAO! Is that what you are? A group of labels….interested. Whatever happened to self-definitions.
    – it’s interesting how men get upset by the very things they use to categorize and control women. You want a “good girl” but you get upset when a woman tries to be a “good girl” to get you. Huh? Do you have any idea what you want? Do you want a person or a label?

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    • In my opinion, as long as you don’t say it, they can’t hold you to it. If you say you’re a good girl or guy, people are gonna be checking for it. If you just do you and keep your self-labeling shenanagry to yourself, they can never say they didn’t know.

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    • @nubiankween

      The topic is not about ho reform.
      It’s about those who are purposefully misleading the public for selfish game. Women who disingenuously perpetrate a fraud of their own ‘get down get down’ to catch a man.
      Nothing wrong with being a good girl, so long as you are truly living a good girl life. But this topic is not about those. We are discussing the fakes; The wolves in sheeps clothing; The expired meat that is mislabeled good for another 30 days.

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      • expired meat????
        clutches mama’s pearls and hangs head in shame
        I can’t deal.

        As I’ve said before, the game was created unequally, women got the short end of the stick and so unfortunately because the game is unfair the rules are too. Society encourages smoke and mirrors, when you are limited to one positve definition even if you don’t fit that definition you will pretend that you do. Men need to stop crying about what women are led to do esp. when they perpetrate the inequality. Real recognize real, if you’re a good dude looking for a good woman and you’re semi-mentally equipped and observant you will be able to tell the kind of woman she really is. Now if you are slingin’ it all over town, don’t get your panties up in a bunch when you attract your female equal. Water rises to its own level and all that good *ish. i’m so over for the whorish men looking for a virgin. Ain’t no virgin want your expired meat, lol

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        • *swoops in to bow to nubiankween* Amen! That’s what I was trying to say too. These guys are contradicting themselves all over the post today. #s don’t matter but be all the hoe you can be…then when we want to pull out the butt beads, they cry “Naw hoe!”. Which one is it? *sigh*

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          • #s don’t matter but be all the hoe you can be…then when we want to pull out the butt beads, they cry “Naw hoe!”.

            Wait, what? Butt beads? TMI for the world, girl. Lol

            *CBG, come get yo’ woman…and watch yo’ a$$…hate for her to whip out said beads and catch you slippin’

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            • First off, he can’t hear you he’s tied up with a peach in his mouth….
              Second, don’t be tryin to call me out. You said we can be free with our hoeness. I got something for you too DG….
              *gets jar of ruphies*

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              • Hey, hey, wait. Chill out, girl. Thanks for the peach, but I thought I told you to take those things back to the store. Nothing goes near the chute, mine or yours. And stop threatening people with those things. *Guides SFG back to the room.* My bad, DG. She’s been working too hard lately and the NyQuil has been kicking her a$$ lately. She’ll be okay. Go ahead and rub the Vaporub, SFG. That should help.

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              • @CBG
                If buttbeads is what she wants, then you better give her what she wants.
                Apparently she doesnt mind her chimney being stuffed with more than just logs.

                lol! Did i go to far? Oh well. *Kanye Shrug*

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              • @SFG,

                First off, I’m all for freakiness (which ain’t the same as hoeness…you gettin the two mixed up). But every man has his limits: mine start with my a$$, which is virginal and pristine…and I plan on keepin it that way. D@mn a bead.
                You and Jai w/ these d@mn ruphies… I tell ya.

                @CBG,
                Appreciate that, folk…(still watch you back tho…sleep with one eye open). Get her some Dayquil, or better yet, go with some Echinacea or something natural.

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              • Excuse me…I had to feed my mini me and take my work clothes off and come back to see ya’ll nuccas talkin about me. *boiling grits* Who wants to play?

                CBG…you always deny me, that’s what the ruphies are for. Don’t start with me boy, I got a trunk full of goodies…and who told you to come off the swing?

                Sobo….O.O icant

                DG…you think I’m bad. You betta watch out for Jai and take the ruphie, otherwise you’ll get shanked. That girl don’t play..

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    • word!!!

      it seems to me that men always hate their inventions called double standards and contradictions once women learn to use said double standards and contradictions to a woman’s advantage. ha!

      look this whole virgin vs. whore (or good girl vs. bad girl) pathology is a tool of manipulation men have used for centuries to control and exploit women. [Note: For Black women this tool is often paired with the tale of "If I had a white woman…."].

      ladies stop falling for this brainwashing crap. there is no such thing as a good girl.

      honestly, there are 2 types of women: 1) women who let men define them and 2) women who don’t.

      you should never allow a man to define your worth as a human being.

      a man should like you for who YOU choose to be, and if he does not then bounce and find a man that does.

      no exceptions.

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      • honestly, there are 2 types of women: 1) women who let men define them and 2) women who don’t. .

        Thank you Thank you Thank you!!!

        I’ll be d@mned if I let ANYONE (male or female) define me!

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      • @nubiankween – clever response. :-)

        @divalive
        “you should never allow a man to define your worth as a human being.”
        Please stop with the woman’s movement catch phrases.

        A woman should never let a man define her worth simply because it is IMPOSSIBLE for someone else to define your worth.
        A woman ALWAYS defines her own worth. The rest of the world can only see and/or appreciate it.

        If a woman values herself, the world will see it.
        If a woman doesnt value herself, the world will see it…UNLESS, she tries hard to disguise the value(or lack thereof) she has placed on herself.

        No man can define a woman’s worth. That is the sole responsibility of that said woman. She just cant get mad if the worth she has placed on herself is a low one, to the point she has to misrepresent herself for the worlds ‘approval’. Keep it real. Love yourself. Love what you do. F*ck what anyone else thinks. Just do and be you, and not be afraid to show the world who you are.

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      • ladies stop falling for this brainwashing crap. there is no such thing as a good girl.

        honestly, there are 2 types of women: 1) women who let men define them and 2) women who don’t.

        Oh My God!! I am so pleased this afternoon on VSB!!! Making this extra time pass quite fast!!! This is the stuff that doesn’t get said enough.

        Women learn to be your OWN person. That includes your own judge, your own decision maker and your own defender… Stop letting other people define those things for you….

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  75. There are way too many comments for me to read through, so this may have already been said. BUT some “good girls” do deserve the quotes, but not all good girls are trying to front for image/PR. If a girl has a 90 day rule, maybe she just wants to be sure she’s not going to get caught up emotionally with someone who may not even be around that long. And maybe she wants to make sure there’s at least some semblance of monogamy going on before she jumps in the sheets with someone. The older some of us get, the more some of us realize that sex is more than physical and want to avoid the complications with folks who otherwise wouldn’t matter in 2 weeks.

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  76. I’m a virgin. I’m not offended by any of this, simply b/c quotes or no quotes around the term “good girl”, this article is CLEARLY about fakers. And I really am a good girl, and if that wasn’t what we were discussing here you would never hear me say it b/c I doesn’t need to be said. I just am. Men know. The ones who want to accommodate it stick around, the ones who don’t keep it moving and that’s cool. I don’t have a marriage requirement or anything, and certainly nothing religious (ha!) that’s just how the flapjack fell. I like nice men who treat me well, who I’m completely comfortable with and have intentions of sticking around past getting it in. That isn’t every man and, in fact, it isn’t most at my age (23). I don’t particularly like the virgin thing b/c it’s annoying b/c i’m twentydamnthree and sex is expected, so it is a hinderance sometimes. Always have to “break the news.” But i digress….there are real good girls on this planet, and Panama wasn’t talking abt them. SO EVERYBODY CHILL THE F*CK OUT!

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  77. I also want to say that most men have apparently dealt w/ this fake good girl b/c I have men test me all the time. Innuendo and questions clearly meant to dig up the truth that they think aren’t transparent but clearly are b/c here I am talking about the transparent-ass questions I get asked testing my good girl nature. So it’s a very real phenomenon, folks. A PLAGUE ON FAKE GOOD GIRLS!!!! (lol…i’m kidding…kind of)

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  78. HAPPY BIRTHDAY CHEEKSTER!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

    ***on another note…I have never seen the word ‘ho’ typed in one blog post so many times.

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  79. Hmmm Panama, I’m sure you’re not the only gentlemen to have these feelings, but I think your anger is misdirected. First off, I don’t know a single person, yourself included who wouldn’t think a woman whose let 100 different dudes run up in that isn’t a ho. Please stop the bullshit. Secondly, there’s a big difference between women who are cockteases, and the so called “good girl” but in respect of women being grown, and girls being children, let’s rightfully refer to them as “good women”. You touched on some of the distinguishing factors such as “actions” but it goes so much further than that, and YES numbers do play a role in determing that status. A cocktease is a master manipulator and more importantly doesnt’ really want YOUR cock. She’s more than likely giving YOU the good girl speech, while ridin dirty with the dude she really wants but can’t have. I’ve seen this shit go down. Good women, on the other hand, often operate based set of rules, which may seem arbitrary to YOU, but are almost always intended to protect and serve her personal and romantic interests. get that, protect and serve. And REALLy since when does not having sex with someone equate to suppressing who you are?? We’re humans, we all have sexual urges, that’s a given. But just because you happen to be out with someone who get’s you a little moist doesn’t mean you have to act on it. The person who I am thinks ahead to “what happens after I get my rocks off?” or better yet, “what if I don’t get my rocks off, then what?” That’s what vibrators are for. Maybe it’s not about trying to look better or be “better than thou”. Maybe it’s more about, “I don’t know you like that, son. How bout we not exchange fluids until we know each other better”. And how bout, grown ass women don’t call themselves “good girls”. that’s what shitty pop stars and virginal teenage girls call themselves. not good grown women.
    Think about it.

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  80. Another good reason for the 90 day rule: Assuming mutual fidelity (I’ll wait for you to stop laughing) if someone is infected with HIV, it takes 90 days for a positive test. That’s one of the best ways to be safe, other than abstinence of course. Word to Cheekie

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  81. most women will never consider themselves a ho..even if they display ho tendencies. Now, I know some hos..closeted, unaware, shyt….I even know some proud hos. Just do you…

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    • @Jai – “most women will never consider themselves a ho..even if they display ho tendencies[ho experiences, ho attributes and ho lifestyle].”

      I agree.
      What’s actually pretty comical to me, is hearing a ho call another girl a ho. Absolutely baffling hilarity.

      Self delusion is a muth@fcka

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      • if you and your chex actions are the topic at the family barbeque, neighborhood watch meeting, frat party, pta meeting, conference call, church picnic, etc and mostly ery’body on hand can tell of an chexual experience with you, nine times out of 10 you are a ….

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        • Or it could mean that you simply messed with the type of fkcd up grimey n*cca that broadcasts his conquests all over town, which would really make you a dumb ho ’cause you didnt spend enough time getting to know him in the first place to learn that he was that grimey type of n*cca that would broadcast your business at family barbecues, picnics, neighborhood watchmeetings, frat meetings, conference calls, etc.

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          • which would really make you a dumb ho ’cause you didnt spend enough time getting to know him in the first place to learn that he was that grimey type of n*cca that would broadcast your business at family barbecues, picnics, neighborhood watchmeetings, frat meetings, conference calls, etc.

            ^Hence, the 90-day probation period…I kid! I kid! :D

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      • Says the pot to the kettle. LoL

        Pot: You’a h0e…

        Kettle: No, you’sa h0e!…

        Pot: Well, at least I got paid….

        Kettle: No. I believe that was your car note…

        Pot: Well, at least I’ve got something to show for?…whatchugot?

        Kettle: *flashes ring*

        Pot: So how many humps did it take?

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    • most women will never consider themselves a ho.. .

      Most people define ho as any seckual activity, they don’t/wouldn’t do (usually within a certain timeframe). lol

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    • so, so true. I know several women who have slept with men who were married or otherwise attached. Slept with men for financial reasons. Engaged in sexual activity with more than one guy in the same week. But they swear they are like mary poppins. It’s confusing because if those aren’t “ho” activities than what is? Do you have to be on the corner? Or does that not count since you are just trying to make a living? I agree you shouldn’t worry about folks judging you, as long as you aren’t hurting anyone.

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  82. “Newsflash, when you sleep with a man doesn’t make you a ho – acting like a ho makes you a ho, whether it’s 1 hour or 6 months.”

    Round of applause – that whole paragraph gets a “well said bruh.”

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  83. Gosh darn it!! The day we discuss one of my favorite subjects, my apps have to go and all act crazy!! Hmmmph! It’s a conspiracy…

    But yeah, in a nutshell… if you’re not comfortable being who you are, then work on that before invading the dating streets… Your future mate and and also your lovepocket will thank you. The end.

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  84. Its interesting that men and women are polar opposites when it comes to what we find appealing.

    Women tend to gravitate to men with proven or presumed/perceived experience. Whereas, men tend to gravitate to women with lesser or presumed/perceived lesser experience.

    Women desire men who know what their doing and want men with experience. Whereas men desire women who know what their doing, but didnt necessarily earn her degrees at 55 different colleges.

    *sigh* The dichotomy. :-(

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  85. Ok so it’s 452 comments on this post, and I’m just not going to read 452 comments. So my apologies if this is a repeat of what someone else has already said, instead of an original thought. But I call bs on the “number of people you have sex with” and “how soon you do it” doesn’t matter. Especially the former.

    I think some man who wanted to make a woman feel better about having relations with him the same night they met made that up. I don’t buy the whole “I’ll respect you equally whether you sleep with me within the first five minutes we meet or 90 days later” line for one second.

    While I agree that the whole “good girl” facade (a la Joan from “Girlfriends”) is outdated and should have been canceled the same time as the show, you cannot convince me that a woman who sleeps with 100 men is anything less than a ho. Sorry, a spade is a spade.

    Can a woman who sleeps with only 5 guys be a ho too? Of course! Especially if all 5 guys are at the same time, within a 30 day period, she lost her virginity yesterday and is making up for lost time, etc. But all female sexual empowerment aside, your magic number DOES matter!

    And ladies…let these men fool you into believing that “they will still take you home to mom if they got head from you in the car the same night they met you in the club” if you want to. Even if how soon you do it isn’t the only factor that matters, it does matter!

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  86. “A woman can sleep with 100 men and not be considered a ho. Then you can have a chick whose boned 5 guys who’s the biggest ho everybody knows.”

    Panama, I’d love for you to expand on the latter part of that point. Not b/c I think it’ll make any more sense, but I just wanna see what’s gonna come up outta those fingers of yours :) lol!

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  87. Just read the post and first time making a comment:

    ONe thing that is really a bunch of crap is when old girl tries to switch it up and pretend to be a good girl cause the dude she is dating is different than the usual trash she takes out. Eventually, the real will overtake the fake, leaving the guy wondering “who the hell is this. . .”

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  88. In my opinion, there is no such thing as a good girl. We are all human and it’s human to err (“to err is human, to forgive divine”). We all have the potential to do bad things. What makes the difference is how we respond to each temptation or challenge presented to us. The point is to grow and move forward. Truth be told, if our actions were always revealed, none of us would be be proclaiming to be good.

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  89. Yep, that about sums it up. Truth is, no one is ALL good. Some are just willing to admit that, while others aren’t. Much needed post!

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