Why I Believed The Lie That Black Men Are More Homophobic Than Everyone Else » VSB

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Why I Believed The Lie That Black Men Are More Homophobic Than Everyone Else

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Black people are made perpetual victims of confirmation bias.

If you’re black, I don’t need to tell you this. But, if you’re not or you just don’t know what it means, confirmation bias is that thing you do when you swear every fat person in the world eats at The Golden Corral every day and then ignore the hundred and fifty skinny people you see in there in order to point to the one fat one and scream “I told you so!” Confirmation bias is not a joke, though. It ends lives and then reassures the person who possesses it that they were right all along making them all that much more stupid. All black people are on welfare in the confirmation biased mind because it will subconsciously ignore the millions of white people on welfare in order to point to the black ones who are. See how that works? Confirmation bias is the way that dumbshit people make sense of the world and make themselves feel comfortable in it. Because if the complexity and arbitrary nature of cruel reality was ever made clear to them, it would be too far too much for them to handle. Tiny brains can only handle so much information before they freak the fuck out and put Trump in office.

I have, myself, fallen prey to confirmation bias and I swear on Shirley Caesar’s wig that I didn’t mean to. The information that I was given was false, misleading and designed to turn me against my own people and I swear on every fake follicle of Shirley Caesar’s wig that even though I believed it for the longest time, black men are no more homophobic than white ones.

The very first person to ever straight up ask me if I was gay was an enormous heterosexual brother, six foot million and three thousand pounds; he was made out of granite with shoulders that would take a Sherpa to get across. Big muscles and a shiny bald head and a shiny bald Buick sedan that he blasted rap music out of. I was young and we were coworkers at a grocery store. I tried to act “manly” around him so as not to give myself away and greeted him with all manner of “Sup’s” and minimal hello head nods throughout the day. One day, we were on break together and I was regaling him with stories about how drunk me and my “roommate” had gotten the night before while carefully omitting where we got drunk.

“Are you together?” he asked.

“What?”

“Are you together?” he asked again.

“Yeah, we went there together.” I think I know what he’s asking. But, I can’t believe he’s asking it so casually.

“No, fool. I mean, are you together as in is he your boyfriend?”

Never in all your born days have you seen a man stutter so hard and then try to lie as ineffectively as I did. It didn’t hit me then that he was just asking conversationally as one would. What hit me then was that my act wasn’t good enough to fool him and I was ready for the onslaught of “faggot,” “batty boy” and “punk” that he was sure to rain down on me. Eventually, I just stammered so much that he figured it out on his own.

“So, he’s your man. Cool.”

His candor and his acceptance blew my whole world apart for a day or so until I went right back to believing that black men are more homophobic than white ones because black people are where other races store their most shameful attributes. Their hate and self-loathing. We have been given the job of being the wretched of the Earth so that other races can just get on with it fully justified in the idea that they can do absolutely anything to us and that it doesn’t matter.

Where there is laziness, we are the most indolent. Where there is violence, we are the most brutal. Where there is libidinousness, we are the most lustful. Where there is danger, we are the most threatening. Where there is dirt, we are filthy and where there is homophobia, we are the worst purveyors of it. Your church choir director aside, black people in general have been saddled with this stereotype that we are relentlessly backwards when it comes to gay issues and, black men, violent when it comes to gay men. So white preachers send for the most bigoted of us when they want to attack gay people and I’ve spent the better part of my gay ass life avoiding straight, black people and that’s a lotta black people to avoid.

No matter how many times heterosexual black men have proven to me that they didn’t give a shit whether I or anybody else was gay or not, I still clung to the believe like Shirley Caesar’s wig cling to her head. I would avoid offers of hanging out, friendship and collaboration. I would instead run back to gay clubs and surround myself with nothing but black women and white people. But, let me tell you the damn truth. No black man has ever threatened me as I walked my ass out of those clubs into the night by myself. White men have. No black American man has ever written up legislation to strip gay people of human rights, require that they participate in “ex-gay” therapy or remove sexual orientation from being a protected status free of discrimination. The most black straight men have ever done to me was holler “Sashay, Chante’!!” at me when I was swishing out the grocery store with a little too much sugar in my tank.  

The flaming black queens who live in my black neighborhood strut around in hotpants unbothered like African peacocks screeching, screaming and hissing like teapots. Unafraid, because they’re not worried that six white gay bashers like the ones in Philadelphia will break their jaws requiring them to be wired shut and then get a slap on the wrist. The reason they can strut is not just because them bitches can fight. It’s also because the vast majority of straight black men don’t care.

Don’t get it twisted, please. There are some homophobic black motherfuckers out there and we know who they are. Rappers have not done themselves any favors in this area nor have Jamaicans. But, Jamaicans move slow in general not just with regard to political issues. There are homophobic black dudes out there and they scare me to death. But, I’m not gonna be more scared of my brethren anymore because of the persistence of confirmation bias.

Homophobia is the product of an adolescent mind. If you have gotten to be an adult in this life and you’re still homophobic, you are thinking like an adolescent in the sense that you are thinking about how everything that is not you supposedly affects you. You are still thinking about whether or not someone thinks you a sissy or not. Your image. You’re still thinking about what other people say and do. You may’s well be covered in acne and masturbating nightly and watching the VMA’s. I refuse to believe that most black men are like this and my experience has borne out the fact that most straight, black men don’t give it shit. Either we can kick it or we can’t. I was lied to by forces that are determined to keep black people separated and it don’t take long to figure out what those forces are. Black men are undoubtedly affected by toxic masculinity. But, it’s a different kind, not necessarily more abundant. All in all, homophobia is just the natural byproduct of a weak mind or a too tight wig and I’m not willing to stand here and say that most black men are afflicted with either.

 

Brian Broome

Brian Broome is a Creative Writing/English major at Chatham University in Pittsburgh, Pennsylvania. He has been published in Creative Nonfiction, The Ocean State Review, and Delta’s Pride Magazine. Brian's work explores the topics of racism, masculinity and the African American male.

  • Kat

    On another note, we and by we I mean humans typically follow a herd mentality. It’s easy. And let’s be real most of those biases come from lack of information. I was reading something recently and realized that up until say 15 years ago, maybe 20 information was not readily available at your fingertips. You couldn’t dispute a statement with facts unless you had a book in front of you or you wrote the book. So here we are believing propaganda about blacks because that’s what they wanted us to believe. It helped their agenda. Give it 30 more years, we “might” have gotten rid of some. Not all but some. Probably added others. Cause..humans.

    • Brown Rose

      I agree. This goes down to my point below that we believe the biases about us. Sometimes its not even in a book. Just look around. I have known other races who disown those who have come out. I never understand why once again Black people are being burden with being the worst.

    • Ray Jefferies

      But who? Who generated the propaganda? Who wants us to believe it? (This is not a demand from me to you to answer, it’s just what I say out loud when I read your comment and others like it). I am curious if we are all envisioning the same “who” and “what” that is behind the propaganda.

      • The parts that exist may come from religion. (that part isn’t just about black men). Some of may come form some long-sewn seed of black men not being vulnerable or weak.

        “But who?”
        Could be an amalgam of “us” and others. Then again I kind of hate sociology.

        • Ray Jefferies

          I think we can be more specific than “us” and others and I am not surprised that by and large, no one seems all that interested in identifying who the “who” is. It’s by no means proof, but it leads me to believe that we know “who” propagates these ideas. It’s probably a safe bet, for example, that is not Christian Conservatives and Right Wing Nutbowls leading the charge of associating black men with greater homophobia… their department is associating black men with greater violence and criminality. It’s a different grouping of people and/or demographic over-amplifying black male homophobia.

      • Kat

        Anyone in power and white people are the power aided by other skinfolk

        • Ray Jefferies

          That’s probably generally true of anything though. Who is the power behind most of our legislation? Answer: Anyone in power and white people are the power aided by other skinfolk. Who is generally responsible for law enforcement overreach? Answer: same. Who is generally responsible for images propagated in print and media? Answer: same.

          I say all that to say, I obviously don’t disagree with your statement, it’s general enough that it’s true for the question I asked and many others. I just think we can narrow it down to a more specific demographic (and suspect there’s a reason why we aren’t)

          • Kas

            I really don’t know who you mean. I shoot off the flamethrower in this comment section without a care on the regular.

          • Kat

            Narrow it down so I can follow your train of thought.

            • Ray Jefferies

              It’s not Conservatives or the Right. I think this one is home grown on the Left among Progressives. And I know that’s a diverse tent (by design) which means there is a diverse set of culprits. I see further in the thread people finally got around to talking about racism in the gay community, so I guess folks have generally settled on gay white people as the root cause for what I believe to be an over-amplification issue (I could be wrong, it’s just what I saw at a glance). To be clear, they do have some ownership in this issue but they are hardly alone in it. Gay people (white AND black) Feminists (Female AND Male), and black people who are straight and don’t necessarily identify as Feminists but do identify as Progressives… they all have ownership in what I see as an over-amplification issue.

              I can’t tell you how big or small homophobia is among black men, only that I don’t believe it is as bad as has been characterized (actually I think this is true of a lot of things but that’s another discussion). But I’m one person, it’s a belief – not a fact, and it’s based on my personal experiences which are as anecdotal as everyone else’s. I haven’t ever witnessed personally any of the horror stories that I’ve read anymore than I’ve witnessed an exchange like what the author described. They’re both foreign to me, most of what I’ve seen is general indifference fostered by isolation (you don’t bother us, we won’t bother you). It’s neither been direct and generally positive, nor negative and violent. But apparently both do happen.

              That said, all rhetoric has a long term cost… even Progressive rhetoric. Black males are probably more thought of as Homophobic in part because it’s most oft repeated. I personally don’t feel like it’s an honest analysis to merely outsource the genesis of this stereotype to gay white people. It’s been a Progressive Team effort… and that’s why I suspect that people have shied away from saying “who”… because ultimately it implicates the people “who are supposed to be the good guys”. I am under no such burden because I have long since disabused myself of the idea that allies are anything but strategic and not actually ideological.

              Anyway sorry for the essay, just wanted to respond as thoroughly and as comprehensively as possible.

      • Gibbous

        Most homophobia was originally fomented by the Christian church as they sought to colonize the world and outlaw sodomy. Almost every culture and civilization on the planet had (BCC – Before Christian Contact) LGBT folks in their communities who lived and worked, and were even sometimes revered.

        • Ray Jefferies

          Ok but you are referring to what you perceive to be the genesis of the phenomena (homophobia) my question was more towards, by what mechanism has it been more associated with black men and by who?

          • Gibbous

            Yeah, I have no idea. How would you find out?

          • D-Nice

            Gay white men? An extremely small sample size (purely anecdotal evidence), but my ex-boss who is gay and a current gay coworker have made allusions to heightened black homophobia.

  • cysinblack

    Only this year has a white person called me the f word. He was homeless. Looked as though someone had already roughed him up with a disfigured eye swollen shut. He seemed out of a monster movie. He approached me because I appear approachable to anyone begging for money. I didn’t want to give him anything as his presence made me immediately uncomfortable. When he spread himself wide with arms stretched out to block me from moving in either direction past him just so he could pleaded his case I swerved out of his way and then he said what are you a f-ggot?

    Now I do not believe black men are the most homophobic. I do believe people of color are the most socially conservative. Black people’s cultural conservatism is a defense mechanism. Due to not wanting additional attention placed on us since homosexuality and mental illness for example are traditionally seen socially as shameful and embarrassing. We use religion to address these things and it cannot properly do so. We also know outside help is not an option. So we attempt to collective subdue the crazy and the gay out ourselves and loved ones for the sake of keeping it together under surveillance.

    I had anti-black prejudice against Jamaicans from their notorious homophobia. But I know a gay Jamaican personally who is one of the most big time people in the LA ballroom scene. Okay. I have to unlearn this. But I always feel most uncomfortable with foreign blacks from the West Indies seeing me less than because of my orientation.

    • mr. steal your costco samples

      “I do believe people of color are the most socially conservative. Black people’s cultural conservatism is a defense mechanism. ”

      A mighty word. But it still don’t save us :(

  • Brown Rose

    I think we believe the lie because of gay white men like Dan Savage and other liberals tend to believe that Blacks can’t be enlightened or have a live and let live attitude. There are homophobic Black people for sure, but we do not have the market cornered.

    Latinos have their issues with homophobia as does Asians and Native Americans and certainly white people. Every group has a down low culture. I knew of a gay Asian dude who would not come out. He would rather marry someone and live his lifestyle on the down low then come out to his family and community.

  • Peter

    This site is a bottomless well of great writers.

    • IPC

      Seriously! I either come away learning new phrases and ideas, or feeling inspired to write myself. Kudos

    • D-Nice

      That’s why I’m so worried about the upcoming commenting format shift.

  • sharitaatx

    This piece was excellent, working in Public Health (STI/HIV focus) this warped sense of Black ppl HATE the Gays the most has been crammed down our throats that many people think this is fact. Honestly, WE ( Black folks) have started to eat that stuff up and try to justify why we are like that. When the truth is that we are no more and in my opinion LESS homophobic. As an ally and a BLACK person I make sure to counter those messages because it is not true! In the work I do it is these types of thoughts that make white ppl apathetic to the real and serious health and social needs of the Black GLBT population.

  • If I think of all the black men in my personal life, let’s just use 5 as a control group, 4 out of 5 of them are homophobic to some degree – if they don’t outright “hate” the gays, they’re wondering why they have to be so flamboyant. (Can’t they just act like men?!) Or they think rompers shouldn’t be worn by real men, or that wearing flip flops that separate the big toe from others is evidence of being a battyfish.

    I don’t have any white people in my inner circle, so they’re not really of consequence to me in this conversation. I’m thinking about if this is my confirmation bias talking, or the fact that I’m really just surrounded by some close-minded folks.

    • Sweet Potato Kai ?

      Please tell me the flip flop thing is just for punctuation and not really a thing!

      • Kas

        My wife forbids me from wearing certain tank tops when in Jamaica. My guess is it’s a thing.

        • Sweet Potato Kai ?

          This is turrible!

          • Kas

            Meanwhile her uncle in a fisherman tank top with his nipples hanging out. You know I pointed this out immediately.

            • Sweet Potato Kai ?

              But I think the fishnet tank is a national pre-req. I could be wrong though.

              • That and a healthy amount of sass.

              • Kas

                It is, but I just pointed out how silly it was to say my tank top said gay, but a mesh tank top did not.

                • Lea Thrace

                  There generally isnt rational or logical thought involved in these kinds of sentiments.

      • Michelle is my First Lady

        No, it is a thing. A few of my guy friends used to say all the time they would never wear thong flip flops because it is gay.

        • Sweet Potato Kai ?

          I’ve never heard of this one

          • cedriclathan

            Nike Air Rift. They’re a reissue. They came out in the late ’80s early ’90s maybe as a take off of the barefoot African runners from the Rift Valley who started to dominate distance running at that time. I had a pair back then and when the reissue came out, I had to have the modern version.

            • Sweet Potato Kai ?

              They are terrible. Sorry.

              • cedriclathan

                That’s ok. Absolutely nobody influences my shoe buying choices. I been dissuaded by the best, to no avail.

        • mr. steal your costco samples

          them jawns are uncomfortable

          • Kas

            I like them. Wonders if that is why people often think I’m gay.

            • cedriclathan

              I have a pair of these in black. You might like them. You have to get special socks though or wear them without. https://uploads.disquscdn.com/images/ef27a0a6235ad7e6f962145567043953c4140e36ab3662e6ddf6867eb2d4cee7.png
              “Camel toe” shoes.

              • Sweet Potato Kai ?

                But there’s something between the toe, so when you put them on you turn gay, right?

                • cedriclathan

                  I run “funny”.

              • Kas

                Nopeity nope

              • Looks like a fancy kung fu slipper

                • cedriclathan

                  Yep. Imagine them in all black but with the blue Nike swoosh. With black socks, you have to look closely to see the toe.

              • Lea Thrace

                These ninja turtles looking things are the worst!

                • cedriclathan

                  They’re different, that for sure. I’m drawn to “different” shoes. I have a pair of javelin throwing shoes and a pair of parachute shoes.

      • KeyBrad

        Its a thing. Along with pedicures and skinny jeans. One guy actually said that if a man wears skinny jeans…thats gay.

      • I wish. I’ve heard someone say this and be dead serious.

      • Epsilonicus

        It is very very real.

    • Kas

      The people I grew up around didn’t hate gay people. There was a very flamboyant gay guy in high school that walked around with zero fukcs given. However, I will say that most of the people I grew up around consider it unnatural and are not comfortable around gay people.

      • My mom is vehemently against homosexuality and makes me cringe sometimes with what she says. I try to be respectful and just not engage in those conversations with her, but it’s hard to not want to call her an ignorant bigot.

        • KCG

          Same. *sigh*

    • Annalise Keating

      all my friends are black. I tend to avoid homophobes like herpes. I just can’t seem to be friends with homophobes. So my confirmation bias really should be that black folks aren’t homophobic. But I know homophobes exist in the black community. I just don’t see it as the epidemic some people try to make it out to be because my inner circle is not representative of those kinds of people.

  • Ray Jefferies

    This right here is a sermon: “Black people are where other races store their most shameful attributes.” There are times when phrases leap of the page because the truth of their nature just won’t allow them to remain in 2 dimensions. This was a powerful observation and Well said.

    Second thing: “I was lied to by forces that are determined to keep black people separated and it don’t take long to figure out what those forces are.” Umm hmm, and see this is where I imagine the food fight would start. I don’t disagree with the notion suggested here, there are indeed (to let me tell it) forces that are determined to keep black people separate… but I’m wondering if you didn’t “name” those forces for a reason. Are you worried about back lash?

    Merely challenging the narrative that black people/men are more homophobic than everyone else is likely to run you aground with the Progressive Nautical Fleet; is that the force you’re talking about (in part)? None of this is meant as a criticism aimed at you btw, as I said, even challenging the idea is probably enough to draw lightning your way (even with you still asserting that there is toxic masculinity and homophobia in the black community). But I think it’s worth observing that you didn’t name the force.

    • Brooklyn_Bruin

      ” Black people are where other races store their most shameful attributes.”

      Straight outta Fanon, Black Skin, White Masks

  • MakesMeWannaShoopShoopShoop

    I’ve posted before but I am going to do it again because the need to be hyper masculine is killing us.
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=G8r4hWQTH6I

    • Michelle is my First Lady

      I agree this needs to stop.

      • mr. steal your costco samples

        If these suckers ruin brunch…maaaaaaaan

        • Michelle is my First Lady

          lol. I see nothing wrong with male bonding, even if it is done over brunch.

        • Mr. Mooggyy

          Man I just had some shrimp and grits and “smack yo mamma” biscuits like 2 weeks ago! These kneegros better quit the bullshyt!

          • mr. steal your costco samples

            man my favorite brunch is that one in Vegas where you get unlimited crab, lobster, filet and Perrier-Jouet. how can that be gay?

            • cedriclathan

              S’not!

              • mr. steal your costco samples

                sigh, not that there’s anything wrong with that. gotta check my hetero cis privilege

            • MsSula

              Honestly this sounds like my version of heaven. Lol.

              • mr. steal your costco samples

                it’s sooo good. pricey — like $90 a head — but a life-changer

                • MsSula

                  The Perrier-Jouët alone is worth it. Especially if bottomless. Lol.

                  • mr. steal your costco samples

                    eye2eye!

    • MissRosé

      Going to brunch with a group of your guy friends is gay? Hmmmm….color me informed. /sarc.

      • cedriclathan

        Color me “not hungry anymore after eating brunch.”

    • Wow. Someone going that hard must be looking for trade on the low. Lol

      • cysinblack

        What you know about trade on the low? Dance for me dance! (throws singles in your direction)

        • siante

          forgive my ignorance- what’s “trade on the low”? I would’ve googled it but I never know with Todd lol

          • cysinblack

            Trade are masculine men on the DL.

            • siante

              Oh ok, always learning something new here

        • cedriclathan

          Todd seems to be very informed about things of this nature. Don’t question the master, grasshopper.

        • I learned about that from turning down advances from gay dudes. It’s all good though.

          • cysinblack

            You should have a side hustler where they pay to watch you in action.

      • Val

        Lol Stop it.

      • MsCee

        Cracking up.

      • miss t-lee

        *snickering*

    • Charles Johnson

      Brunch is the most peaceful meal you can have with others around without wanting to hurt them…

  • siante

    The other one that gets me is when people just blankly state: “The black church is homophobic”

    • MakesMeWannaShoopShoopShoop

      Most churches are. I got a video via whatsapp about the gay pride march in Philly I think, where a Christian lady did her due diligence to attend to warn other Christians about the great sin that was on display. She cut the footage about 20 seconds in to spare her audience but then turned her attention to the church which she said is failing the world because some churches were participating. Her message boiled down to the world on a collision path because the church is not condemning. I admit that I never finished the video because all I saw was a 45 voter.

      • siante

        I guess that’s what gets me, when we say “most” – How can we put a blanket statement over something that we can only estimate?

        • Epsilonicus

          Most are. The question is how virulent. Is it just what they preach in the pulpit or something more.

          • siante

            My thoughts were that assuming “most” based on our beliefs and personal experiences and not actual measurable data is a very easy way to get into the confirmation bias the author was encouraging us to step away from.

        • MakesMeWannaShoopShoopShoop

          While more and more churches are inclusive we can not deny that homophobia is core to the doctrine of most churches.

          • siante

            All of the Abrahamic religions consider homosexuality a “sin” (Islam, Christianity and Judaism). So it would be easy to make a broad assumption about “most” people in “all” of those religions as being “homophobic” but is that really fair? There are many stories I can link about the fear that many homosexual Muslim’s feel about coming out and practicing their faith for fear that they will be killed by their family, communities, etc. I was also watching something on Youtube about some young homosexual Hasidic Jews who were afraid of coming out for fear that they would be kicked out of and banned from the only community they’ve ever known. It would be very easy for me to judge based upon my own observations/ experiences and beliefs regarding Islam or Judaism and say “most are homophobic” but that’s simply not a quantifiable statement. And I believe that type of thinking falls in line with the same type of confirmation bias the author was encouraging us as readers to move away from.

            • MakesMeWannaShoopShoopShoop

              And i can speak from my experience too. Nothing is wrong with acknowledging the foibles of the church which is quite adept at white washing its past and deflecting.

              • siante

                Not saying there’s anything wrong with speaking on it- shoot, I’m sure most of us have had some jacked up experiences with the “Christian” churches here in America, but this author made me think about how often I make judgments based upon those experiences and end up quantifying and negatively judging an entire group of people…based upon my own beliefs, experiences and observations & not based in fact. It can be an exercise to step outside of that way of thinking and I respect this author for encouraging people to do so.

                • MakesMeWannaShoopShoopShoop

                  Fair enough. Don’t get me wrong i am not saying that there aren’t changes but that change often welcomed until it’s personal. I have a friend whose nephew had to do something radical , think upload a video with him mid act, to come out. I referenced a video i got after gay pride march of the presenter calling for the church to take a stand and be anti inclusive. I hear the rhetoric to recognise that the old mindset is still prevalent. Would ppl be honest on a survey to quantify i dont know.

                  • siante

                    I think people would be glad to answer honestly! Usually people are more than willing to share viewpoints on social issues like this (whether we want to hear their opinion or not lol) so I think it would be very enlightening!

                    • MakesMeWannaShoopShoopShoop

                      Indeed i would love to see such a study and results

                    • siante

                      same here!

    • Some are and some aren’t. Depends on the preacher and those in the pews.

    • Michelle is my First Lady

      It all depends. I grew up in the church. I’ve been to churches where they welcome those from the LGBTQ community, and other churches that are quick to condemn it.

    • Val

      Me no know, I tend to stay away from Black churches and churches in general. But maybe that is an answer in and of itself.

      • siante

        Do you think you’d ever check out a more affirming church community. There are a lot of churches in my area that have the pride flags on their website. There are actually only a couple that don’t now that I think about it!

        • Val

          Honestly, most churches that welcome or embrace LGBT folks are majority White. And while I appreciate their openness when I have attended those churches I still felt ‘othered’, racially.

          • siante

            yeah, I get where you’re coming from, it’s that vibe of “we’re so happy to have you here! Now can you please pose for this picture so we can show people how diverse we are!?” it’s annoying -_-

  • I find from my experiences, that the men who are so scared of gay men tend to feel like that gay man will treat them the way they treat women. Uncontrollably aggressive, super touchy feely, and unable to understand that no means no. I find men who are very secure in their sexuality have no issues with gay men. As long as everyone respects everyone, there isn’t an issue.

    • Diego Duarte

      I read somewhere before an anecdote about this huge gay dude that would prowl around the dance floor of certain gay pubs. The minute a straight dude would walk in there and start zexually harassing a lesbian (because apparently this is a thing that many straight guys do) he would be on him, dry humping him from behind and overall dancing dirty. Since the guy was buff the straight dudes could barely get him off of them and then they would act all hurt and offended. The gay avenger they called him. It was hilarious.

      • cedriclathan
        • Diego Duarte

          Yup it was precisely this one.

          • cedriclathan

            That’s a buff dude. Aint no pushing him away easily.

      • Michael

        So sexually assaulting men is hilarious in your world!

        • Diego Duarte

          Oh look! It’s an MRA. How you ended up in this corner of the internet is beyond me but to answer your question and false victimization:

          Yes, I find zexual harassment aimed at people who zexually harass others both well deserved and hilarious.

          I leave you to conjure up another victimization attempt and false equivalence fallacies.

          • Guest

            No, what you think is that vigilante style physical assault is an appropriate way to punish someone for being obnoxious, because I promise that attempting to make an advance on a stranger in a bar who turns you down is legal, but dry humping someone against their will is assault. See how I didn’t ascribe genders or sexual preferences to any of the parties in my hypothetical? That’s because both statements are true regardless of the combination.

            • raul

              Ouch that’s a harsh takedown that I can’t help but agree with and I’m pretty much ok with like 95% of vigilante justice.

            • Wizznilliam

              Maybe that’s how they pick up people in gay bars? How would you know? Also the original comment says that lesbians were being “sexually harassed”. If that is true then that is not equivalent to you saying “attempting to make an advance on a stranger”.

              • raul

                And that puts both parties in the legally wrong category. I’m not a lawyer but I don’t think sexual harassment works quite like say self defense.

                Which is not to say that I don’t find this entertaining karma. A straight guy looking to pick up les chicks in a gay bar most certainly has it coming.

                • Wizznilliam

                  Not necessarily… Like I said, maybe that’s how they get down in the gay club. In my college years I’ve grinded on plenty women around the dance floor. Usually if the girl walks away you take the ‘L’ and keep if moving. If she dances back then it’s all good. I would be a hypocrite now if I walked into a gay club and got mad that a dude did this to me. If I did ever go into a gay club I’d likely have my azz in a seat.

                  • raul

                    Well if that is how they get down then the dudebros attempting this are just when in Roming it and it’d be hypocritical to shut them down. Not all chicks at the gay bar are gay. Plus if dudes are legit sexually harassing your customers you throw them out no matter the orientation or your patrons. The reality is that this is about them policing their safe space, which I get but if it’s a public venue they get the hobby lobby treatment.

                    Now fwiw I’m straight, been to gay bars before and never seen either of these things take place. I’ve been hit on by many a gay dude but I’ve never had one get handsy or be anything but cool when I say I bat for the other team.

                    • Wizznilliam

                      Okay.. Well neither of us has seen this particular situation that the original comment mentions. He said lesbians were being “sexually harassed”. Is that true? I don’t know but I’m taking the comment at face value. If someone is actually sexually harassing people I don’t too much care what justice someone decides to give them.. Be it punching him in the face, calling the bouncer to throw him out or whatever.. Grinding on him is pretty light compared to the other options. He could have just as easily got his azz kicked.

                    • raul

                      Well you just described your behavior in college as the exact same thing minus the less than flattering descriptor. I mean if grinding on the dance floor qualifies as harassment this whole problem’s way bigger than some d-bag frat boys at a gay bar.

                    • Wizznilliam

                      Me talking about grinding on the dance floor is not the same thing as saying women are being sexually harassed. I did not say they were the same thing so I have no clue what you are talking about. You are not making any sense. I compared myself to the gay guy in the given scenario, not the straight sexual harasser of lesbians.

                    • raul

                      The practice that you’re defending is the sexual harassing of sexual harassers no? The definition of sexual harassment is “the bullying or coercion of a sexual nature” which is literally what buff gay dude is going for here. The entire joke is giving them a taste of their own medicine which
                      means that if you’re equating your behavior to that of the gay guy, well
                      walks like a duck.

                      If you had affirmative consent to grind up on the girls at the club taking Ls wouldn’t even be a thing.

                    • Wizznilliam

                      No. I’m defending grinding on people in a dance club. I don’t think this is sexual harassment. People grind in dance clubs. This is not unusual or sexual harassment. I really don’t think this is all that complicated.

                    • raul

                      My man the quote in the link above that Diego said “Yup it was precisely this one.” includes the highlighted quote “There’s this one gay club that I go to that actually has a problem of straight guys going there to dance with the girls”. So tell me again how if they say it’s sexual harassment then we’ll just have to take them at their word and how your behavior differs from what’s described. FFS, they don’t even use the word grind.

                    • Wizznilliam

                      That is not the original post. It doesn’t even have the full quote. I have no idea how that post relates to the original post. Ask Diego. Maybe he just meant that is the same guy. I have no idea why you are taking one piece from the original post then the other piece from some completely other post that does not have the same scenario. Nor does that post even mention anything about the gay guy humping anyone. It just says he dances with the girls.. So why are you mixing the posts? Either way that does not change my stance in any way. Humping or grinding on someone is a dance club is not unusual. It would not surprise me to walk into a gay club and see men humping and grinding.This is not sexual harassment.

                    • I’m a woman who’s gone to many clubs and yes, this is how it happens. The owner would be throwing out 75% of the males in their clubs.

                    • raul

                      I just meant I’ve been to gay clubs on the reg and I’ve never seen groups of straight dudes come strolling in to try to pick up lesbians off the dance floor so throwing them out would be the go to move on principal and as a practical matter. Straight guys at the gay club don’t make up anywhere near 75% of the males in the club. Although this solution is funny and as best I can tell harmless, it’s still got the 2 wrongs don’t make a right thing going on.

                      And in every non-gay club I’ve been in creepin’ the women out gets you tossed (and usually banned). The dudes are there for the women and if the women are scared off the club is no more. But that doesn’t mean you can expect 4 square feet of personal space on crowded dance floor at all times and only be hit on by the dudes that you want to hit on you.

                  • Guest

                    Good god, that’s not how you pick up a girl on a dance floor. You keep a respectful distance away, dance around, and keep your eyes open. You attempt to figure out who is checking you out and then determine among them who you are attracted too. Then you make eye contact and watch for their response. If they smile you square your shoulders to them and smile back, maybe take a couple of steps towards them. If they like that they will smile back and square their shoulders so they are facing you. Then you can start closing the distance (even at this point its best to be a little coy and not bulldog strait for the goal). If you do all of this correctly by the time you ever come into contact with them, you pretty much know what their level of interest is. If you just walk up and grind you have legally committed an assault (but not a sexual assault) in most jurisdictions.

                    • Wizznilliam

                      Well you do you Mr Guest.. Maybe in 50s white clubs that’s how yall did it. And I’m talking about on the dance floor not just randomly humping women all over the club… And of course I left out plenty of small details that were not needed for my point. Thanks for the weird unneeded pick-up advice though. I’m sure you got laid a LOT in your day.

                    • Yea that’s never happened in any club that I have gone to. lol

            • Diego Duarte

              And here we note how you disingenuous fucksh*ts constantly miscontrue the narrative to play the tragic little victims.

              S3xually harrassing women in a pub isn’t “being obnoxious”, it’s s3xual harassment. If you are willing to s3xually harass someone then don’t try to play victim when you get s3xually harassed yourself.

              Get the fuck out of here with that nonsense.

        • Only the ones who sexually assault others. It’s hilarious.

      • Kullervo

        My immediate response to homophobic trolls, internet or real life, is to ask for their grindr username. They usually cut and run after that lol.

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