***If you haven’t already, check out “10 Things You Probably Don’t Need to Know About Black Porn (…but I’m going to tell you anyway)” — The Champ’s latest at The GoodMenProject***
Unhealthy romantic relationships and their fallout are the bane of the black community’s existence. Every major issue plaguing us — poverty, crime, dropout rates, Tami Roman’s weave, etc — is either a peripheral or straight up direct effect of our collective inability to choose the right partner and be the right partner.
And, while there are myriad factors contributing to this, today, in 2011, most of the blame lies with us. But, in what’s quite possibility the longest, weirdest, dumbest, and more important “chicken/egg” game ever played, we can’t quite figure out if women should shoulder the majority of the blame for continually choosing shitty partners to mate with, or if men are mainly to blame for f*cking women over and not giving them many options.
In order to finally find some solutions, I invited the two smartest black people in the world — twins Jack and Jill Jenkins of Youngstown, Ohio — to VSB today to debate both the male and female perspectives. Hopefully we’ll finally be able to decide on an answer after hearing their arguments.
Jack: Even though most of y’all broads don’t deserve it, I still believe in chivalry. Because of this, I’ll let Jill make her argument first.
Jill: Ha! Let me? Negro, half of y’all can’t even buy a car without getting a cosign from a dick-drunk white girl. The only thing you’ll “let” me do is whip your ass in this debate.
Jack: One question: When you go to bed at night surrounded by your 27 cats, do you give each of them an individual good night hug or do you just hug them collectively?
Jill: Anyway…look. I and the rest of the African-American female populace are tired of being blamed for all ailing the black community. We’re fed up with being depicted as bitter and antagonistic welfare-dependent Bust-it Babies who contribute nothing to American culture other than Tyra Banks and the five future demons from hell who made their way out of our vaginas and are going to rob you and rape your pets in 10 years.
And, most importantly, I’m absolutely sick at the fact that some of y’all hypocrite analog-ass n*ggas have the audacity to blame us for getting played and occasionally left barefoot and pregnant by you. I admit that we need to make better dating and relationship decisions, but right now, you can’t fault us for not seeing the rare glass of water in the middle of the thousands of cups of bleach and beaver shit we’re forced to drink from.
Jack: Shhhh. You hear that noise?
Jill: What noise?
Jack: That’s the sound of the world’s smallest violin, playing a tune for the black woman’s woes. If you listen closely it actually sounds like it’s playing “Up Jumps The Boogie” by Timbaland and Magoo.
Listen, spare me with your sob story about being blamed for everything. Black males are still the one’s getting killed at record rates, we’re still dying of hypertension when we’re 37, we’re still having entire political campaigns playing on everyone’s fear of us, and we’re still being made to look like hyper-violent 4 year old superthugs. In the bi-annual Oppression Olympics — held yearly in Oprah’s backyard, er, Gayle King’s mansion — we’ve received each gold medal in every event.
But, I’m not here to talk about that. What I do want to discuss is why we get blamed for the shitty dating decisions that you all continue to make. Yes, it’s true that many women in the hood are left barefoot and pregnant by dudes, never to be heard from again. But, what’s also true is the fact that it’s usually the exact same dude knocking up the entire hood! Raheem, Raymond, Rakeem, Rakim, and Rashawn don’t each have multiple babies. No, Raheem has like 18 by himself; going door to door like a Jevohah’s Witness, leaving semen deposits instead of copies of Awake! Yes, it’s true that professional black women may have trouble finding and keeping men. But, what’s also true is that the same 573 chicks are usually each fighting over and f*cking the same seven guys.
Jill: Oh, here we go again with the “the community is f*cked up because all of us dumb black broads want the same men” argument. Seriously, this theory has weaker legs than Stephen Hawking. What you and your brethren fail to realize is that black male relationship dysfunction comes in all shapes, sizes, and forms. Many of the men claiming to be “good guys” are just wolves in disguise; guys who aren’t able to live the “player” lifestyle they want and haven’t been able to bag the video vixen they so desire, so they end up tricking us into dating them and liking them before they show their true colors.
Sh*t, you don’t think we all want to meet a nice man? You don’t think we want to be able to trust someone? You don’t think we want someone to love us back? Someone who’ll commit? Someone who we know will at least attempt to hang around if I end up pregnant?
Jack: Actually, I don’t think you want those things at all. I think you know how to say that you want them. I think that you know that you’re supposed to want them. But, your actions don’t follow your words. If you truly wanted all those things they’d be at the top of the list when you’re thinking of desirable qualities that a mate should have.
Instead, you end up being led by your stupid-ass p*ssy, and instead of meeting men who you know already have those traits, you end up falling for some loser, hoping that he’ll eventually have them too. And, as long as there is no incentive to be “good” — and by “incentive” I mean “p*ssy” — you’re going to see more and more men go the dog route.
Jill: That’s exactly what I’m talking about!!! Why does it always come back to us? Why are we the ones who always have to be the social arbiters, the one’s responsible for whether everyone makes the right decision? I thought men were supposed to be the Alphas dogs, the leaders! Why can’t you police your own damn selves and just do the right thing for the sake of doing the right thing for once, motherf*cker?
Jack: Get the hell off your moral high horse. People (all people, men and women) are going to do what’s expected of them and what they’re allowed to do. The only difference between you and us is the fact that you’re policed by your uterus. If you subtracted the possibility of pregnancy, y’all would be “unpoliced” just like we are. You think it’s coincidence that our families started to go in the shitter at the exact same time y’all became “sexually liberated” and started popping birth control pills like they were Tic Tacs? Male behavior has always been the same. The only difference now is that it became cool for you all to be hoes.
Jill: I see someone has recently graduated from the Michelle Bachmann school of Misremembering Facts. “Our families started to go in the shitter” when you all decided to go all Dirk Diggler on us in the 70′s; staying home all day and sleeping in different beds every night. Also, do you realize that you’re trying to convince me that a man’s truest instinct is to run away from responsibilities they created? You do realize that, right? You’re basically trying to get me to believe that an unpoliced black man will do something that no other animal in the entire f*cking kingdom does? Do you really want to “win” that argument and convince me that even roaches have more of a moral foundation that black men?
You know what? Nevermind that. Seriously, though, Jack. No one is asking you all to be saints. Just be as decent to us as we’ve tried to be to you. Just make a gotdamn f*cking effort. Is that too much to ask?
Jack: Do you really want me to answer that question?
Jill: No, I don’t. I don’t believe a word of anything you say anymore, so your answer would pointless.
Jack: That’s a shame.
Jill: I know.
—The Champ
***FOR THE DMV VSBers: Come join Panama Jackson this Saturday, August 6, 2011, from 10pm-3am at Liv Nightclub for Reminisce, a party dedicated to the the 90s brought to you by Shine On M Productions x Just Cause x Very Smart Brothas. With music provided by Sup Qool DJ Quartermaine, it’s going to be a throwback to the days when most of us were in college and living the good life. All 90s hip-hop/r&b/dancehall all night long. And most importantly (and best of all) its FREE until midnight ($5 cover after) OPEN BAR on rail liquor from 10-11pm and NO DRESS CODE. Come out and party like you used to do to the music you still listen to and take a shot with Panama Jackson.***
Wnner by TKOOOO….Jack.
*Winner
No one wins when we are all slowing going extinct.
Agreed Sweet Sass. The argument is circular and gets us nowhere.
Have you seen the birthrate in the hood? The only ppl not LESS extinct than black ppl are Hispanics.
Just because the birthrate is high doesn’t mean anyone is actually “surviving”.
Say that again!
Ask the hood that.
Wow. Disheartening much?
Nah… The fact that these conversations (real and imagined) happen is a sign of progress,
@Crystal
1000000% Agree! Hell it may not be pretty, but until you air out all the dirty laundry and get it all out on the table, you can’t really move forward. Isn’t that what forums like this are supposed to be for? Get it out (#pause) and maybe see things from the other P.O.V.
I am not sure if this is progress or if things are more entrenched than ever… But like any problem, once you hit rock bottom there is no where else to go but up. Question is, have we hit rock bottom yet?
this goes on over..and over…and over…
jack and jill’s convo was probably on twitter last month..will be on twitter again in september.
eventually folks tired of smelling dirty laundry…whether it’s skidmard boxers or rusty bras
Pete, that’s true. You can’t just sit and revel in the dirty laundry. At some point you have to say, okay that’s all of it. We’ve said what needed to be said, and now we figure out where do we go from here. Once the “A-Ha” moments have all come to light, you have to find common ground, admit your faults and move forward.
Yeah, we should move forward but I don’t know if we want to. Once you exit these oppression olympics YOU are accountable for your actions. No more “I have daddy issues” or “Black women are too angry”…it’s YOUR fault if you can’t blame anyone. We’ve been running in the oppression olympics so long idk if we would know what to do if we moved forward.
This I agree with 100%. It’s easy to debate about something(meaning, play the blame game) and run that horse to the glue factory and back, but when it comes to addressing our issues, taking responsibility, and changing things….. entirely new story.
Well I want to move forward, that’s for dang sure.
I think we’ve been in this stalemate for long enough. Perhaps the only way to move forward is if we do what MJ said and look at the “Man in the Mirror”. First one person gets fed up and does their own thing, then another, then another, and soon enough a large portion of the community has decided that we’ve wallowed enough and it’s time to make positive changes.
I, for one, have made a change. I struggled with confidence and self-esteem when it came to my romantic life and ended up in some really brutal relationships. I got out of my last one and jumped into the casual sex/casual dating scene for a bit. I’ve found, however, that it’s not at all gratifying and even with the birth control pills (that we’re apparently “popping like tic tacs”) preventing kids, I wasn’t going anywhere. I was just marking time.
Then I was ready to stop marking time, and felt trapped because of the dudes now, even the “good” ones, have gotten so used to getting away with casual sex/dating that hardly anyone is interested in more. I feel like I’m straight out of the 50s right now, talking about a “relationship”.
My solution? Even though it’s the norm, I’m NOT going to settle for what dudes are offering if it’s not what I want. Sure, that DEFINITELY means I’m going to be alone, and I’ve been grappling with whether or not to get a cat for a while now, but going along with the wack status quo isn’t helping things and maybe if more folks are willing to be alone for the sake of their standards, more dudes will stand up to them.
Of course, I might just end up getting that cat. But we shall see.
Right, you can’t talk about a relationship with most guys. (And no, none of this beta, alpha, blah blah blah shit matters.) Most guys will not wanna hear the ‘relationship talk’ now or ever, if it is up to them.
No offence, but I didn’t see anything constructive about that conversation. It was full of stereotypes and generalizations. I remember reading the book “the conversation,” and it brought out this very thing. When black men and women have discussions about relationship issues and problems, we put the wait of the whole entire black community on their backs. When other cultures speak of relationships issues and problems, it is the person that they are with, they are not saying that all latino women are this or that, all white men ar this or that. That is where a lot of the problem lies. Learn to deal with the relationships that you are in try to understand what you and the other person did wrong, that is where constructive relationship conversations start; not with the over generalization of all black people. When you start with the over generalizations it releaves your responisibility in the decision making process.
lol at (pause)
“The fact that these conversations (real and imagined) happen is a sign of progress,”
Agreed. It’s when we STOP communicating that it becomes a problem. However, we have to TRULY communicate. Not just state our side and close our ears (whilst singing la-la-la-la-la) when the other side presents their case.
The progress comes when we actually solve the problem and not just find new ways to communicate our understanding of the problem
But you can’t even GET to the solving before you find a good way to communicate. You can’t just jump to the solution without fully assessing what the real problem is.
I tried to come up with an intelligent reply.
But “Jack and Jill” just cracked me up with their debate and I’m still trying to collect my thoughts.
Glad to see I’m not the only one. I just like how Steve Hawking has managed to make his way into another post.
Ah, Jack and Jill. If sh*t really goes down, The Champ can write a post on a convo between a Mason and a member of OES.
*walks out of lurkdom humming “Bout it, Bout it”*
“The Champ can write a post on a convo between a Mason and a member of OES”
Is this VSB’s first Eastern Star Mention?
Shout out to the Eastern Stars for making funerals an extra 30 minutes longer with their elaborate hand gestures and sh*t too!
There is ALWAYS room for Steven Hawking. In fact, when Soulja Boy challenged everyone on Twitter to name a better freestyler than him, I replied, “Steven Hawking.”
to the corner cheekie…
But I –
ROFL!! Fooled again by your sarcasm!! I was so excited to hear from these “experts” and then when I read the opening sentence O_O
I see the experts could come to no better conclusion than the rest of us VSB/Ss…and so the beat goes on…
LOL, I knew when he said experts from YOUNGSTOWN, OH that it wasn’t gon be about nothing! LOL, I’m from that area and ain’t one expert on anything residing there. Yes, those are shots fired at my own!
I thought the same thing then breathed a sigh of relief that he didn’t say Akron.
I went to grad school in toledo, oh and when he said youngstown i also thought the same thing…… i was looking foward to reading something by experts on this topic though bcthis is def a conversation that happens.
As a ninja from Toledo, hence my moniker, you can’t get much more reg’lar than Toledo. I come from a family of considerable dysfucntion so I could use that crutch if I just wanted to make excuses. I had my single life but somehow, I’ve been married to the same woman for 29 years. The following revelation must have been brewing in my subconscious for a long time before I became aware of it. At some point I became aware the within certain tolerances “p*ssy was all the same”. So it stopped being about the couchie and more, much more, about the woman the cookies were attached to. When I made this realization my decisions about women became clearer, better, more serious.
That’s all I got…
Thank you sir for dropping this knowledge.
Kudos to you Regular Brotha! You seemed to have figured it out. It’s not the quantity but the quality.
+1
I haven’t read anymore wise words on this blog. Kudos to you Regular Brotha.
As soon as I read Youngstown, Ohio I figured these weren’t t real experts. lol
“do you realize that you’re trying to convince me that a man’s truest instinct is to run away from responsibilities they created? You do realize that, right?”<—–BOOM!
My only problem with that question is that many mothers will tell their sons that they do not need any woman but them. If they don’t say it in words, they say it in actions. So how are they going to learn to take responsibility if the very women that raise them don’t allow them to take responsibility. The first male/female relationship that a child learns from is with their oposite sex parent. If there is a break down there, it is hard to understand the connection between a good male/female relationship
I blame Willie Lynch.
I was going to point this out. That hypothetically one could “blame’ the women. Seeing as how a woman who gets knocked by a no good dude quite possibly raises no good sons which perpetuates the cycle. Yet when a man becomes grown its his responsibility to mature. Even if no one taught him anything. So both blames are equally correct and equally flawed.
****when a man becomes grown its his responsibility to mature. Even if no one taught him anything.****
Exactly.
Get outta my head Squeakdaddykane! I say this all the time, regardless of what you’ve seen or been taught we innately know what is right from wrong so the blame lies with you for the decisions you make good or bad. Can’t blame it on your parents, how you were raised, or who you were with when it happened. People have got to take responsibility for their own actions.
I think the flaw in this argument is that it’s true. A boy doesn’t NEED any woman other than his mother. But that shouldn’t stop him from growing up and being a man who leads his household. If his desire is to find a woman other than his mother, his responsibility to that woman trumps his “need”.
When you start makin decisions that effect people other than yourself, your needs go out the window.
“do you realize that you’re trying to convince me that a man’s truest instinct is to run away from responsibilities they created? You do realize that, right?”<—–BOOM!
Helloooooo congress.
Great satire.
I’m glad the men and women I call my beloved friends ar stalking about higher planes of spirituality on the pure end of the spectrum… Worrying about the world they’re bringing babies into on the other.
“I think you know how to say that you want them. I think that you know that you’re supposed to want them. But, your actions don’t follow your words.”
Dang Jack did ya have to call us out like that, doe? I’m afraid to admit I agree with him because so many women claim they want a good man but settle for a 1/2 man hoping he becomes something more. On the other hand, its not fair to place all the blame on the women for choosing trifling kneegrows when so many of them exist and hide it so well.
+1
+2
“so many women claim they want a good man but settle for a 1/2 man hoping he becomes something more” – but you also get blamed when you don’t give a man a chance.
I’m almost 10000% sure that when men say ‘potential’ and when women her ‘potential’ they are talking about two completely different things.
Elaborate please and thank you.
Like the Chris Brown and Joe Buddens of the world. Chronic cheaters. Men with anger problems. Habitual liars. Multiple children by multiple women (that they visit every other month). Basically all types of emotional and behaviorally damaged men that have things that ‘look good on paper’ like a good-great job, good looking, etc.
Guys usually men dudes that are like blue collar workers. Guys that still have student loans. Average looking guys who aren’t stacked or will be stacked in the future. Geeks. Socially awkward dudes. Etc.The important caveat to all of this is that they must be well adjusted human beings.
IDK, I’ve met a ton of guys who are blue collar workers who also have a string of baby mamas.
You want women to check geeks or fuglies. That’ll happen when I see men checking female geeks/awkwards/fugs.
In other words, when pigs fly.
I thought you heard, Pig Flu in ’09. Get with the times baby. Now pick the dweeb with the pimples. Hold up. All the dudes that get passed over don’t look equivalent to all the women that get passed over. Plus, I get passed over by the ugly busted Bettys of the World, not the awesomely pretty Prescillas.
Do you know what it feels like to get dissed by an ugly, out of shape and under intelligent person? Yeah, that’s how I feel. You’ll have to take my word for it.
Did you feel that way about her BEFORE or AFTER she rejected you?
Cus’ on one side of a come on… I’m “gorgeous” with “supple lips” and “soft hair” but when I’m not having it… suddenly it’s “HEY b*tch, you UGLY anyway… you got FAT ankles!”
My thoughts were of a subtle yet joking nature. Self deprecating and simple.
I don’t get rejected because I don’t approach with intentions. I just talk with people. When women try to reject me, I laugh because I’m not a pick you up to smang kind of guy. Too L7 for that.
Tell it!!!
@Sagey Bear
3s & 4s reject like 9s & 10s now…
fatties strike back
@ Adonis.. Why you gotta try to those MY people under the bus?!?! I’m sexy & a catch fat & all…hmpf
@Yoles
You know the rules…
I am talking to everybody in the world except those who read this blog…
Adonis, my brotha…you are a freakin fool for that….That was an epic save.
Think the Kevin Hart, when the creepy guy saves the drunk girl from fallin by grabbin her b00bs. “Did ya see that, I caught her by her b00bs….”:
You a smooth criminal.
Sagey, I know the ladies around here are always giving each other kudos and e-dap. I remain secure in my manhood when I say, I llike they way you write.
Yup yup, bro. You ain’t even had to say all that to give props. Man, it is understood.
But it says a tremendous amount about yourself and what you’ve been through that you can understand what I’m throwing out there.
You clearly ain’t no regulah brotha. lol
Keep doin what you do fam.
“You want women to check geeks or fuglies. That’ll happen when I see men checking female geeks/awkwards/fugs.”
I agree. This just shows both sides are looking for something they aren’t. I always think men and women should date within a standard deviation of what they bring to the table. Granted there is no real ranking system, folks just need to be honest with who they are and who they can attract.
yeah sweet sass, but he wasn’t saying that blue collar workers don’t have the other problems (i.e. baby mama drama). his point was that when women say potential, they may believe a guys behaviors/character will change. whereas when men say potential, they mean the guys already a good dude with some morals and sense, but his situation (salary, style of dress, etc.) may improve in the future.
I give those guys a chance 24/7. They turn out to be very emotionally unstable, due to all the p*ssy they didn’t get. They turn psycho on you in a minute.
I agree with you Wild Cougar…lol. One of my fb friend is a guy that i went to school with that i for the life of me can’t remember from school. Good conversation, however, he has serious issues with women. But it has everything to do with him being such a mudduck…lol.
Thank You. Men don’t really deal with their emotions, so you are going to run into problems on both ends of the spectrum. The popular guy becomes arrogant bc all of the attention he gets and the geek/regular guy becomes bitter with a vengeance because of the lack of attention. I think that some women feel like the former is easier to deal with or reform than the latter.
Too true. I hate arrogant dudes, but I also hate geeks/awkward dudes with chips on their shoulder about their pussc-less past. They’d rather have a debate with you than realize that the whole reason you came over was so they could ask you out.
I’ll pass.
Apparently no on that responded to me read the bold part. I didn’t say nor imply dudes that fall into those categories are automatically emotionally stable.
I like how you seemed to be prescient on the feminine ability to disregard certain aspects of the dialogue and respond with talking points like…Republicans.(See what I did there? Yassss)
Like the male ability to take an isolated incident and generalize it to all women. Frustrating, ain’t it?
In our defense, we’re dumb. I mean have you seen our graduation rate!
IDK about anybody else but you really should consider sharing nicer things. Right now, the you I see is not a good look. Not a joke. Not at all.
Sagey, how bout you have a drink, a deep breath, a walk, a good cry, whatever it takes. It sounds like you need something. I won’t take anything you say personally.
WC……really?
I agree Malik. I think when men think of a woman’s potential they think negative. Like what’s her potential to gain 50 lbs. after we say “I Do” or how prone is she to losing her damn mind and ending up on Snapped. Whereas, when women view potential they think more positively about “What a man could one day be if he’s given enough encouragement and direction… [by me].” Basically a “Can I fix him?” view of potential.
and men get slapped with the Capt. Save-A-Ho3 labelI agree too.
” how prone is she to losing her damn mind and ending up on Snapped.”
lol
It most be a woman thing. I can’t imagine spending at most 10 minutes with any kneegrow and not knowing whether or not he is trifling.
agree malik, I can tell right away if a negro is trifling. I think that is why its so confusing when chicks are like “I thought he was a good guy” and I’m just wondering how
Please. Women can spot out other trife women but y’all (men) keep with the “shock and awe” mentality when you finally find out (usually the hard way).
+1
i think both parties tend to wear blinders on PURPOSE. Benefit of the doubt, maybe. But other times we just don’t wanna admit the person is trifling because of one or two other things that they got goin. It’s not hard to spot a trifling male OR female.
It is hard, however, to give yourself a reality check when the dream is just so damn good.
They’re trying to be “living the dream” like “Wedding Crashers”.
I must agree that ALL of my most evil vindictive, manipulative female friends STAY having THREE OR FOUR dudes chasing after them.
The nice ones spend hours at the gym or working late, or trying to distract themselves with hobbies, and having a circle discussion with their girls about what gives with their empty call logs.
Hence literature like “Men Love Bishes”, etc.
Hmmm… lol! sounds like me. I am always trying to find a new hobby. But I wonder if thats why there is an empty call log. Too busy perhaps?
Nope. I think you can be found while doin what you love. At least you know the guy will love it too.
Notice I said “be found”.
I DID notice you said “found”, and I’m OK with that. I’ve recently realized that you can’t apply the same drive and ambition that you do in school or work to your love life. It doesn’t work like that. It’s infuriating, but it just doesn’t. You just gotta lay back in the cut for a while sometimes.
People act like it’s always the women doing the choosing. Maybe in the beginning. When we “choose” to talk back when you approach, or “choose” to give you our number, but I’m pretty sure the man “chose” to approach us first, and in the end, if the man doesn’t “choose” to commit, you’re in a slow boat to nowhere.
I thnk it gets infuriating for all of us at some point. Down post, Monday said it best: You just gotta be happy with who you are first. Work on yourself and love that person. I’m kinda strange, but i honestly believe that God won’t realy allow us to happily be with someone until we’re completely in touch and comfortbale with ourselves (him too, of course). When we accomplish that (which ain’t easy), i think the opposite sex can kinda sense that. Even if no one ever does, at least by then it won’t be paramount in our lives.
But then again, i realize that i am a man, and man’s love is life, and a woman’s life is love. -Phonte Coleman
In my experience, the women you’re referring to that “distract themselves with hobbies” have horrible (read: dry) personalities. The bottomline and I suppose it cuts both ways when talking about guys as well is there are a limited number of candidates that are attractive, intelligent, witty, but down to earth enough to kick it at the hole in the wall joint around the corner. Is that an unrealistic combination? Maybe, but most guys I know would be willing to relax the physical requirement for the other characteristics. Then again depending on the guy, he might be willing and able to wait for the unicorn. There arent many out there, but I’ve seen them, and more often than not they’re married.
i think women do a poor job of objectively assesing their worth in the dating market. They listen to their other single girls way too much. Same goes for a lot of guys. Perfect example, when I was in law school all of the women were intelligent (given), but their personalities were lacking (read: sucked), but they had this attitude like we should be together just because we were in the same place.They didnt realize that they were lame as hell because they hung around each other telling each other how great they were. Circle discussions are the begining of the end. Men and women overvalue themselves….a lot.
As for the evil vindictive, manipulative female friends having THREE OR FOUR dudes chasing them? Chances are those guys are simps anyway. Then again playing devils advocate, sometimes those women seem more fun/down to earth (believe it or not). I think what happens is the women you say are working late/gym/etc. come across as tightly wound and stuck up because they have a chip on their shoulder like someone above referred to about faux nice guys. Bottomline, women who think their “personalities” are so great oftentimes lack what men are really looking for.
I think the issue is really that a lot of dudes don’t care about personality. When you are just looking to hook up, looks and body are the bottom line and those mean girls have that down pat. Also, when you’re just looking to hook up, certain personality types are going to come off as difficult, even if they’ve got tons of friends in the world and the people think she’s a joy to be around. Dude just doesn’t want to handle all that other “stuff” when he’s looking to hook up. Simple is key in hooking up.
I’m just glad you said that your generalizations about most single women thinking too highly of themselves and actually not being appealing to men for their “bad personalities” apply to men as well. ‘Cause I’m on the other side of that ridge and staying single is more appealing than dating some of these dudes who act like they’re “God’s gift”.
I agree with your point on hooking up. It’s funny, I just had this conversation with a woman this past weekend. We were talking about the difference between men’s issues and women’s issues. My argument was that when it comes to men, we tend to know a good woman when we see one, but in our youth we just choose not to settle down until we’re ready. Women want to settle down earlier, IMO, but seem not to know what to look for in a good man until they’re older and have been through two or three Leons, Pookies, or RayRays.
What good would it do to know anyway, if the “good” men have no interest in settling down?
I, myself, am very aware (and have been), of the men I would like to settle down with, but I don’t see them around, or if I do, they aren’t open for anything of depth.
So yeah, what good would it do even if women knew what they want (and I think a lot more do than men like to think)?
@KitKatCuty84 @RG
Women want to settle down earlier, IMO, but seem not to know what to look for in a good man until they’re older and have been through two or three Leons, Pookies, or RayRays.
Sometimes it is too late…
@KitKatCuty84
Good men reserve the right not to settle down just women reserve the right to sleep with whomever…
There are men willing to marry you, but you don’t want them… so it is what it is…
+1
EXACTLY! Admittedly sometimes (not often) but sometimes even I’m caught off guard by some some dudes’ actions, but 98 times out of 100 I with throw the side eye to a chick like “You really didn’t see that coming? Are we even talmbout the same ninja? The one with 3 kids and 2 baby mommas livin’ at his momma’s house… you didn’t think he’d mess up? Okay, then….”
“’You really didn’t see that coming? Are we even talmbout the same ninja? The one with 3 kids and 2 baby mommas livin’ at his momma’s house… you didn’t think he’d mess up? Okay, then….’”
I think this is part of it, too. There’s not sympathy when something goes wrong for someone else. It’s always this type of sarcasm or finger-pointing or I-told-you-so. Never, “Wow, that sucks. How can we make sure that doesn’t happen again.”
Even if you can’t imagine how the mistake might happen, or you don’t agree with the original choice, I think sympathy might go farther than derision. At least, in MY opinion…
Because men make it a full time job, plus overtime and hobby to hide their trifling qualities when they are with a woman they want to smash. Duh!
Women still got us on the sneak tip, though. I’ve never met a man sneakier than a woman. It’s like yall born with it or something.
I don’t even think the issue is that guys are trife. I think the problem is that we always get caught.
In my bad boy days, I collected a loooong list of married/engaged sisters on my belt (Gawd forgive me). Y’all are real gud at sneaking – y’all can do it in plain sight. And yet we men somehow are the only trifling ones? It takes two to trifle yo!
But that was then – this is now.
You’ve never met a man sneakier than a woman because men reserve all their sneaky for women.
+1
All the as*holes I’ve dealt with showed their as* I just chose to overlook it at that moment because it was inconvenient.
Agreed. It’s just very disheartening when you can pick up on the bullsh*t across from a sucka on the first date. Le sigh.
I actually prefer that they show the bullsh*t early, that way I know that I can exit stage left quickly.
Mad props to Mailuv7 for admitting what most women WILL NOT admit. When you really like one side of the equation you tend to ignore the other side. It’s part of life. Women tend to be a little worse at it than men because many of the things they want in a man are incongruent (ie an alpha male that is dominant but won’t dominate them…except in the bedroom when they want him to…) Plus you can’t help who you’re attracted to, but you can justify it…(shrugs)
@Malik
I don’t get it either. I’ve been around some dudes and can tell he isn’t about ish pretty quickly. I think women have a hard time because they think “if he has characteristics 1,2, and 3 so he must be a good guy”. It amazes me how some women have a zero sum, black and white, ideology about what makes a good guy. It doesn’t make since to me to think “he is like A so he must be like B”.
I will admit… I fall for this all the time. Especially if a guy is nerdy. I automatically think he is a ‘nice guy’. Then find out that there are many other women that thought the same thing… at the same time. I’m working on it!
i agree with this… partially.
how many times are women told to stop chasing the dude already at the top of his game because every other woman is chasing him, and give a chance to the brotha with potential? hell…now even flotus is being used against us…
so..like i’ve said many times before..dammed if we do..dammed if we dont.
i want us ALL to do better.
*goes to plank in bed.
KB, if you’re going to give a guy with “potential” a chance, discuss him with a close male friend/relative or gay shoe shopping buddy to find out how much (if any) “Ain’t Sh!t-ness” he has. I truly think you ladies start mistaking pocket lint for potential when you look too hard.
#DEAD @ gay shoe shopping buddy and “Ain’t Sh!t-ness” ….. OH AND pocket lint for potential
I think I read a Clutchmag article about this last week. The whole Mr. and Mrs. Obama thing. How she gave him a chance, blah blah blah. My a$s. They were LAWYERS not working at McDonalds like Calvin.
Right??? LIke Michelle was sitting on the phone with her girlfriends like “Yeah, this dude from Harvard Law School is tryna holla at me, girl. I mean he aight and all, maybe I’ll give him a chance…”
#GTFOH
Thing is, she did feel like that. She had some serious preconceived notions abut who he was straight out of the gate and had already made up her mind that she was not going to like him. She said, “I had dated a lot of brothers who had this kind of reputation coming in, so I figured he was one of these smooth brothers who could talk straight and impress people. So we had lunch, and he had this bad sport jacket and a cigarette dangling from his mouth, and I thought: ‘Oh, here you go. Here’s this good-looking, smooth-talking guy. I’ve been down this road before.’ ” She assumed that because of the hype that preceded him, that he was going to be a cocky a$$hole and she wanted no parts of it. You know as well as I do that people who run in Ivy League circles are not automatically impressed by fellow Ivy Leaguers. That ish was NOT automatic.
Every single one of the fellow Ivy-League dudes I’ve dated has been a d-bag. Like, a MAJOR d-bag. The ones that settled down with a chick that they met in school are OK, because they both came up at the same time and in the same school, probably in the same social circles. But once dudes GRADUATE from an Ivy-League, they think they have the “cream of the crop” stamp and can’t nobody tell them NOTHIN’, not even someone who did the SAME DANG THING at another Ivy League. I seriously almost shy away from fellow Ivy-Leaguers now.
I read that same article CurlyTop. For real….how much of a risk did she take? The man had a law degree from Harvard. While I’m sure POTUS was at the top of the list, what was the least he was gonna do…be a successful lawyer? Not much of a sacrifice.
You say this like lawyers can’t be trifling.
At least half, if not most of the lawyers I know are emotionally unstable. I’ I’m sitting next to a pathological liar right now.
Not what I meant at all. Anyone at any given time can be trifling.
I hope for Calvin’s sake that he owns several McDonalds franchises by now lol
I usually lurk but I had to agree with this. If my little brother or one of my many “brothers” give a dude the side eye, he usually ain’t sh!t. Some men are good at hiding their ain’t sh!tness but most of the time we as women see the red flags, we just choose to ignore them.
*cues Love is Blind instrumental*
Part of it is she simply doesnt see it, part of it she doesnt want to see it. The sad truth is most relationships that ended in 3 years could’ve/should’ve ended in 1 but they just dont know how to let go. No one wants to be single anymore thus they settle.
“The sad truth is most relationships that ended in 3 years could’ve/should’ve ended in 1 but they just dont know how to let go. No one wants to be single anymore thus they settle.”
Sure, no one wants to be single. As someone who has carried on a relationship or 2 waaay longer than I should have, it wasn’t really about being single. It was more about admitting that I had failed. Failed because *I* couldn’t make them work. I saw the red flags but figured I could fix them. As I get older, it is clear that all relationships aren’t meant to be.
absolutely dr facebottom.
but when you feel like that’s all you are being offered…sometimes pocket lint is better than the ache of loneliness. even for a little bit.
i will never hold anyone responsible for my dating choices. they are mine.
however, what i will say is that i cannot be held responsible for making a decision based on a lie. if you misrepresent yourself to me, that is more on you than myself. all i did was go with the information that i had. if i dont trust you at your word, what am i doing dating in the 1st place. trust is only earned if it’s been broken.
” if i dont trust you at your word, what am i doing dating in the 1st place. trust is only earned if it’s been broken.”
That’s how I used to feel (still do to some degree) till I got burned by a couple of chicks (some of it was my fault too). Now I have trust issues just like the single women out here…sigh. The saga continues I guess.
Can’t let a woman affect your ability to trust though. Just chalk it up as lesson learned. Reality is dating/relationships are just hard. If you think about it, you have two people, oftentimes from different backgrounds, different socializations, different morals trying to mesh in an intimate partnership. The odds are really stacked against success. Value systems are jacked out here in the game. I mean people are really f*cked up. These women think “Single Ladies” and “The Game” are reality. Smh. There’s still some real sistas out here, but it’s like sifting for gold, you gotta pick through a lot of dirt and sh*t before you find that nugget..real talk.
Real talk indeed. I don’t let it make me bitter, but I tend to use the whole “Fool me once, shame on you. Fool me twice shame on me” adage, but in reality they didn’t fool me at all, it was other women. It’s not fair, so I usually do let them earn my trust eventually, it’s just not a given anymore like it used to be. You’re right though, the odds really are stacked against a relationship working.
**** its not fair to place all the blame on the women for choosing trifling kneegrows ****
Not that you said this in your post, but It’s always interesting to me to hear women (generally) say they should not be held responsible for their choice in men.
Like how can you NOT be responsible for YOUR choice? Just a general question out loud for anyone to answer.
Our choices in men are our fault for what we deal with on a personal level. That does not mean that those choices are THEE SOLE REASON for the continued decline of our community. I think that’s what annoys most women. It’s the same reasoning that extremist Muslims use to control their women. “You must keep covered to control the lusts/sexual desires of men”…that whole line of thinking is based on women being the gatekeepers of…sh*t, I don’t know what exactly. But the entire onus is on us…that’s not fair or right.
Ain’t sh*t men will continue to make kids and leave them, regardless of who they make them with. Yes, part of this issue is with women making better choices. But, another pat of the issue is men not engaging in behaviors that lead to fatherhood if they truly aren’t ready or don’t want that responsibility. It’s two fold…no way around that.
****But, another pat of the issue is men not engaging in behaviors that lead to fatherhood if they truly aren’t ready or don’t want that responsibility. It’s two fold…no way around that.****
I don’t necessarily disagree with this. I would just be surprised to see/hear women giving men a pass for his choice to sleep with a woman simply because it turned out she was crazy.
If we all have to be accountable for our choices… let’s ALL be accountable for our choices.
How often do men get blamed for their choices in choosing a trifling woman. Usually, she will get called every name but a child of God, but won’t take responsiblity for sleeping with/being with her.
Preach!
****How often do men get blamed for their choices in choosing a trifling woman.****
Daily… maybe even hourly… especially if she gets pregnant. Not a thing is said about the crazy chick, the standard line is, “well you need to be more discerning with who you sleep with”. There is no empathy or absolution. Am I truly alone in this observation?
Banana Cream Pie!!
“If we all have to be accountable for our choices… let’s ALL be accountable for our choices.”
True enough. But, ya know how I know we’ll never be able to come to agreement as to “who’s to blame?” in hetereosexual relationships? Because neither side knows what’s it’s like to deal with their own kind. Only men know what it’s truly like to deal with a woman, and only women know what it’s truly like to deal with a man. Like, you can’t really call bullsh*t on either claim because, well… how do you know?!
I say we hit up the homosexual community for an accurate analysis. Like for real, they have an interesting perspective because they have an idea of how to deal with someone who shares their gender/sex.
I actually have had a lesbian tell me (over the ninja nets not in real person) that she feels sorry for men, cause she knows what it’s like to deal with women (she was the masculine lesbian in the relationship)
Of course that is a single anectdote and obviously statistically meaningless. If we did do a survey I bet what you’d find is that the more masculine of the same sex couples would probably identify with the men’s POV and the more feminine of the same sex couple would identify with the women’s POV.
“If we did do a survey I bet what you’d find is that the more masculine of the same sex couples would probably identify with the men’s POV and the more feminine of the same sex couple would identify with the women’s POV.”
Good point, but that’s only assuming the couples would be that sort of a pairing (masculine/feminine… well at least enough to label them in each category). Which all of them aren’t… so it’ll be interesting to see the variables.
You know Mo, that is just the thing. Women aren’t given all the responsibility. They are given all the responsibility of a given realm. Why? Psh, I have no idea why traditionally it seemed like it was alright to saddle things that way. I don’t think that the old school way of doing things is alright….but I should need to say that….I mean, shhh, I am Sagey Bear. Point is, if we can isolate a reasoning for it, be it prejudice or ignorance or an actual f*ccinreason then all the better to know how to deal with it.
What ever, this conversation is a powder keg and attempting rational progressions isn’t going to get my HALF PICTURE seeing behind anywhere.
You know we are all tools, slaves to the machine. Look at 2520, he a GOP but don’t benefit from nothing GOP do. SLAVES.
If it ain’t too late, it’s too little or both. LMG(Loading my guns)
@Mo-VSS
I blame women because they want to be seen & treated as adults… Until she makes a poor choice… Then it is some man’s fault…
Now if she entertained some dude at the advice of her father & friend, she might have a case… (Basically leaving her choice up to another person/male)
F*ck who you want…Just make sure your kid has a responsible father in his life…
@Adonis (@MOTRenaissance)
“I blame women because they want to be seen & treated as adults… Until she makes a poor choice… Then it is some man’s fault… ”
Man, if this isn’t true. I’ve watch women give to the bummest of bum ninjas willingly and then blame him. As if she made it hard for him. You don’t hear too many bum ninjas complain about not getting women.
“Now if she entertained some dude at the advice of her father & friend, she might have a case… (Basically leaving her choice up to another person/male)”
Cosign.
Adonis, dearheart. The extensive time you have obviously spent reading, digesting and internalizing the 2520 manblogs has done you damage. It. May feel good to write what you do, but please know that much of the things they espouse are like the lie/truth told to Eve. You will not surely die. It is a lie wrapped in anger, wrapped in logic, masquerading as truth. But it tastes good to those whose tongues have been burned by rejection. The only flavor they recognize is bitter. I beg you to get some help. Be it a girlfriend, counselor, sport, journal, something. Because if you continue this way, you will be a very, very sad and lonely old man.
He is only 23 years old and think he has everything figured out.
is that any different from being 55 and thinking you have everything figured out?
Last time I checked age meant very little relevant. Young Bill Gates, Young Jay-z, Young Oprah. These are who built empires not old versions of themselves. So, You want to bring his age against him again? Because that is pure malarkey as evidence of lack.
Who N -D -L -R -U?
Sagey, are you a little sensitive today? If I had some chocolate to give you, or maybe I can smush my boobies in your face….
I’m good, thanx though.
I feel like I just pointed out some real sh!t for y’all.
Age is irrelevant. Intelligence waxes and wanes.
There are endless ideals and perspectives on it but all that needs to be acknowledged is that some people are hot all the time and other people always need to warm up.
Whether he is young or old, if he’s hot,…he’s hot!
But the talking points are a detracting factor. I don’t want your boobies in my face or nothing like that. I’m not freaky. I’m a straight L7 and I own it to the fullest.
Matter of fact, Og humble is holding down the 1.5′s, Panama is holding down the 3 spot but I…I got the L7′s on lock.
L7′s do not do freaky thangs. With freaky people because L7′s are afraid of every std ever created. Based on held knowledge,
Now, I’m at the point where I lose coherency so instead of piecing it all together…I’ll simply trail off….
like…
whoa….
L7 Say Gee
@Wild Cougar
At 40+, I must commend you for the extraordinary shame tactics you use on me… A lesser man might wince at the suggestions you post… But even at 23 & ripe for your picking, I know better, and my job is to let men know how to choose & enjoy better women….
If that means leaving Most black women to ride the poles of thugs & badboys, so be it…
They get the men they always wanted…
Because if you continue this way, you will be a very, very sad and lonely old man.
I came alone in this world, & I plan on leaving the same way
@Sagey and Adonis. What I was offering was my best version of loving concern. Maybe I’m not the best at conveying that online. But it was love. For the both of you. Not trying to insult or shame you. But you both seem to be in pain. I wish the best for you. I wish I could hug it away. It’s the frustrated mama in me. Forgive me if I was rude in my delivery. But the hate you seem to be spewing is not gonna reach me from where you sit. Because I can see all the pain behind it. Besos.
Adonis
As men, it is very hard for us to be old and lonely. Not only do women live longer but there are more women. That is nothing you need to worry about, ever. You already display some very well adjusted behavior responses to decent personal insult. Homie, you legit…keep doing you like only you know how.
Wild Cougar
I’m amazed at you. With you. Somehow, you read my sadness in a way that even I have yet to perceive. Now, if I’m sensitive today, then I should be able to feel every which way I been feeling. If I’m snappy, then why haven’t you been cursed out?
Oh, let us not get Say Gee confused with a chump…average nor frustrated. You couldn’t handle holding my fork. I see your pain and raise you H3ll on the eye of a needle.
The World been straining my neck since before I realized my neck was bent. Now, chasing down my every word isn’t going to stop anybody from finding anything of value in them. Just like my words aren’t going to limit how many bitter women relate to yourn.
The point is not to look thirsty for my attention and right now, if you ctrl+f my name, your name is always right behind. I……..WONDER…….WHY????
@Sagey
Man, I have been teased & insulted since for as long as I can remember… You know how it is being a beta black nerd…
It’s build character tho…
@WC
It is well appreciated, but unnecessary… I prefer to stick to the points…
Before you can be my mom… We would have to sleep together a few times FIRST…
Then I am all ears to receive all the motherly love & advice I can handle…
Enjoy…
No dear, you’ve already shown you can’t handle me, so it would be no fun for me. But thanks for the offer. The fact that Sagey would insinuate an std in polite conversation shows he can’t handle himself, let alone me. I was showing concern for his sad state today, nothing more. Self flattery noted, however. Have fun with that, I’l be having fun with men.
@WC
I agree… I need go younger anyway, I just wanted to speed up my s*xual learning curve…
You should have your young men report on what it is like to be with a legendary black cougar… Their perspective would be awesome…
Like I said before ” Sometimes age comes alone”
Leave me be.
If you are so good at handling men, then why have you any complaints at all.
Notice I have ‘nary a complaint about women in my personal life. I don’t talk trash about WOMEN. If I have anything of a rebuffing nature, it is about what you say.
Don’t believe me? Go back and read it without your bitter lenses on.
FOH & Go SYAD. on 1.
Seriously. Go read them again. Seriously go check the time stamps. Seriously. LOL
Because this time. Your ploy to make me seem sad is far from true. Why did I let you draw me into this silliness? Why did I bite on this dried up old bone?
Am I that much on my sleeve? No.
I see now…it is because I’m taking you seriously. I shouldn’t do that.
I don’t see you either. TIME STAMP. There is a reason I keep repeating it. lol
@Wild Cougar- I’ll take the boobies! lol
Really though. It’s not that serious ppl. We all want love and sex. Let’s figure out how to get it without all the fighting and finger pointing in the meantime…whaddaya say?
For real, tho
Justmetheguy
She is the female Obsidian. Using obfuscation in all arguments that aren’t solidified by someone else’s logic. Basically, she co-signs and bullshats all over the place.
You say no need to point fingers? You right…I’m just telling her to btfu…she is vsb stalkin me. Everywhere I go, I see the same wild cougar yo.
As for Adonis, you trying to say he ain’t justified in his response? Dude played that fairly well. She needs to stop launchin at cats like she the US of A. We all play bully in our minds.In mine, I’m the biggest most arrogant. How about you in yours?
Sage Like really? Seriously you’re tweakin. You’ve initiated as much contact with WC as she has with you, if not more and in large part have incited more provocation. Even when she wasn’t directly addressing you.Beyond what she wrote down thread, she really hasn’t came for you like that.
I’m gonna try not to choke off the irony and hypocrisy of you praising that comic book ace ni@@a who steadfastly refuses to assign males with any responsibility, while inaccurately accusing WC of dabbling in Obsidian like obscenities. I am not sure why bluntly spoken women draw some much ire from you. But the whole ordeal has been bizarre to watch.
Mk
At first I was taken aback by your defense of her. Look at the time stamps.
Know that she has intentionally done this.
I have a witness besides that anyways. Another VSS. I’m not making this up…matter of fact I’ve been going back and forth about it all day. I have text messages. You are seeing what you want. Now that that is finished.
Bluntly spoken women don’t speak BLUNTLY for NO REASON.
If I’m responding to anything it is the same cues that you take in responding to me.
But to say that I’m praising O. is wrong. I drew a comparison between the two because I’ve argued with both. At length mind you.
Barring that I’m completely incompetent with arguments. Which, simply cannot be possible given my personal history with understanding. What you are basically saying is that what I offer is preposterous at best.
What I offer to you is that you neither Know what is going on Nor should you have stuck you nose into a battle that you had no part of. But aside from how you seemingly over looked the COPIOUS SHADES she has been throwing at not only men younger than her BUT MEN IN GENERAL, I’m simply going to lump you in with the BBB(Bureau of Bitter Broads).
I’m not about to go back and forth with you….I actually thought you were joking earlier….egg on my face….you seriously have an issue. Thanks for clarifying.
I don’t see you.
I read an article, think it was on Good Men Project, and it talked about how the price for sex is very low these days. Back in the 50′s, 60′s, and 70′s the price of sex was a wedding and prior to that time period most men had to be able to offer a dowry (I know some Muslim cultures still do this). Nowadays, the price of sex is a happy meal and a smile. Basically, women will open their legs for $3.99. The article concluded that if women were tired of men jumping from women to women, then we need to collectively raise the price of sex. Why wait for a woman who requires a ring when you can go to someone who will accept your happy meal? The other part to that is some women don’t want to get married..ever.
There really is no one thing to blame, but women used to have the upper hand in dating (and it worked), now we don’t. Gender roles are more confusing by the minute. There are 58639 rules to follow and I don’t know who in the hell came up with them. Let’s just get back to the basics…tell a man what you’re looking for, he starts being shifty and shady…on to the next one. Simple, trust, you ain’t missing anything.
Women are A LOT more open about their sexuality nowadays….they are “bi”, they got NSFW facebook pictures, and theres chicks who will just be eff this ima get mines. Its almost too easy now, forget a happy meal all it takes is a
text
LMAO @HerBetterOption because it is the truth for any man with a moderate amount of game
The article concluded that if women were tired of men jumping from women to women, then we need to collectively raise the price of sex
That (once again) leaves no room for male error! It just suggest what women need to do to control what men want to do. And completely ignores that the men willing to get married to have sex aren’t the men trying to have the cheapest possible sex
why does it leave no room for male error? pointing out one issue or one solution doesn’t automatically mean there are no other issues or solutions! and this isn’t just to you imperfect, i’ve seen similar logic all up and down this thread from men and women. pointing out one issue or one gender’s issues doesn’t mean no other issues exist.
i think that’s the main reason why this conversation is so circular and generally doesn’t yield results. anytime someone says XYZ is a problem, the people who XYZ applies to say “well, what about the rest of the alphabet! it’s ABC’s fault too. and what about HIJ?”
so the fact that men contribute to this issue too, does not make invalid the point that women collectively demanding more would improve things. both can be true! men being on some bullish sometimes does not excuse us from our bullish!
I just posted the same thing downthread. We have to stop acting like male and female responsibility are mutually exclusive. We are all culpable in our own right. If I have been dealing with an ain’t shyt dude for five years, his ain’t shytness doesn’t neegate the fact that I ignored his ain’t shytness for four out of those five years. When I recognized that he wasn’t shyt, I could have dipped, but I found reason upon reason to stick it out. Does that make it okay that he ain’t shyt? NO! But I can’t do a gotdamn thing about his ain’t shytness, except remove it from my life space.
Gotta know and recognize your part.
yes!
I actually agree here. What women don’t see or hear is that men do a lot of policing themselves, but we dont let you all in the conversation because all we here is n*ggas aint sh*t. Accordingly, we circle the wagons. Kind of one of those “what goes on in this house stays in this house type of situations” Trust that we talk about these things amongst our inner circle of homeboys. You get clowned in my circle for shirking responsibility or letting a decent woman go.
Men know a good woman when they see one, problem is there are a lot of marginal women out here thinking they’re good women. Vice versa for these “good guys.” More often than not, good guys are lames. Be yourself, I hate this good guy vs. bad guy discussion. On any given day I can be an a$$hole, but I guarantee my girl or wife knows she’s the priority in my life and she gets treated with the utmost respect. At the same time, I have opinions which can be downright s*xist at times, eff it, that’s me. Tell you the truth, in my experience, guys with opinions/perspectives society might deem s*xist oftentimes like strong women with strong personalities.
I just posted the same thing downthread. We have to stop acting like male and female responsibility are mutually exclusive. We are all culpable in our own right. If I have been dealing with an ain’t shyt dude for five years, his ain’t shytness doesn’t neegate the fact that I ignored his ain’t shytness for four out of those five years. When I recognized that he wasn’t shyt, I could have dipped, but I found reason upon reason to stick it out. Does that make it okay that he ain’t shyt? NO! But I can’t do a gotdamn thing about his ain’t shytness, except remove it from my life space.
Any argument that suggest that an alteration in the behavior of a person who’s behavior itself is not the cause of the problem is flawed.
If the problem is male whordom, then the solution is male chastity. Granted, straight men can’t screw straight women if straight women aren’t screwin, but the whore-like tendencies will remain, if the source (the male whore) does not alter his behavior.
Just because we refuse to screw them, is not gonna make them stop tryin. And the attempt is gonna yield the same frustrated results
” Just because we refuse to screw them, is not gonna make them stop trying. ”
Who gives a rat’s arse if they’re trying? You know how many young brothers out here are TRYING to go to the NBA? Do you realize how broke, wack, and irrelevant the NBA would be if they accepted all or most of these guys? You speak as though just because he’s trying means you have to let him in. I swear I’m not following this logic. I mean our society does send men the message that not only is it ok to be promiscuous, but that if you aren’t then you’re less of a man. I get this, and this needs to stop, but women also encourage this by talking about men who are suave and successful with the ladies as if they’re somehow better at life or more impressive men than the ones that don’t make promiscuous behavior a priority (even though it’s in their biology to be promiscuous). Again my question to you is because men will always try (to bed as many of you as possible) means what again? (serious question)
I definitely don’t want to get married…ever.
Am I really lowering the price of sex because of that?
“women used to have the upper hand in dating”
*record stops* what? in this patriarchal society? where you are given over in exchange for property (i.e. dowry)? that don’t really sound like an upper hand to me. I think women have a lot more AGENCY now, but we are just catching up as far as socialization is concerned in how to deal with that agency. hmm. I’d rather not be a product.
also, there are other cultures that see gender roles other ways. I think living in the West has blinded us to the fact that our MO isn’t the only MO for life.
@Aisha
That was a good effin article… And the marriage stats continue to decline…
Sometimes you want to believe someone has potential. I dated this guy who on paper sounds amazing, but umm…he was a nutjob. I mean, just because he might go to a top 10 university or have a lot of talent doesn’t mean he is not trifling. I am kind of trigger happy, so I kill a situation before it even turns into a relationship. However, sometimes people don’t know how to let go.
****sometimes people don’t know how to let go****
Don’t disagree with this idea either. I just disagree that you have the right to make a choice but somehow avoid the consequences of that choice. If you choose not to let go a nutjob with potential… own the consequences. Be accountable.
Nutjob and trifling? Did he try to tell you that you were supposed to be his #1 chick or make you part of a rotation or soemthing?
LMAOOOOOOOOOO….umm…this is too accurate. O_O
Two Words: Polyamorous Relationship
iDied.
I’m still laughing. The word “harem” was actually used.
I’m mad ole boy said “harem.”
#cmonson!
Wait… believing in polyamorous relationships made him a nut job?
Maybe it just made you two incompatible…
Therein lies the problem. You don’t date paper, you date people. That is what dudes mean when they’re talking about potential. They mean a man who is fundamentally a good person: takes care of himself, is nice to his mama, helps out the kids and neighbors, gives an honest day’s work for an honest day’s pay, works his jive well (if you get my drift) and will treat his women well. Instead, women see potential with that hood remix of Chris Brown and Screamin’ Jay Hawkins because he dresses nice and has some paper.
Therein lies the problem.
No, its the guy you just mentioned above who disappears when the baby comes. THAT DUDE RIGHT THERE. The VSS of the world pick that dude to have a baby with and he steps out.
Now whose fault is it? Come one now, figure out a way to make it her fault. I know you can do it.
It’s errbody’s fault. See, I did include her in the mix.
Think about it like this. Let’s say they’re a burglar in the neighbor breaking into everyone’s houses and taking their stuff. Of course, some houses he really has to work at to get at their valuables. Not only is he dead wrong, but it’s clear that with some houses he had to work at. No house can be made perfectly inpenetrable, so the owners aren’t responsible. It’s the burglar who broke the law and disrespected their rights. However, in some houses, you have doors and windows open with valuables open for the world to see. While he’s still wrong for taking their stuff, the owners didn’t exactly try to secure things from potential harm.
Look, there are plenty of ain’t shyt men out there. Trust me, I know some of them closely, and have tried to stop them from the foolishness. Also, anyone can get caught up in the okey-doke at any given moment. At the same time though, if you refuses to ask questions or ignore the fact that this is dude #14 that’s just like this, maybe, just MAYBE, you might have to be responsible on your end. I’m not saying that this precludes the man from having responsibly, but you have to own your part of it too.
Really? If a guy acts like a good guy till the baby comes, what, pray tell, is the woman’s responsibility? You stretching here
I’m going to need someone to start a documentary where they follow these ‘fake good men’ for years so I can have a frame of reference to these dude’s behaviors. Because I can not possibly believe it being so common that it takes women years to find out he isn’t a good dude. I need a damn timeline or something I do not believe in the slightest that this is a common occurrence. Women are either ignorant at Olympian heights or they’re drastically overstating how common this actually occurs.
Yeah, I’mma need a flow chart or some bar graphs on this cause it’s not clicking w/me as well. If you’re a VSS/VSB, I’d think all it takes is using the common sense you were given/taught/whatever, and paying attention to your instinct/feelings. If something, ANYTHING doesn’t feel right about a person or situation, don’t hesitate to politely exit stage left cause most likely that feeling is a warning sign that some b.s. is on the horizon.
I’m with you on this !
“I need a damn timeline or something I do not believe in the slightest that this is a common occurrence. Women are either ignorant at Olympian heights or they’re drastically overstating how common this actually occurs.”
Thank you. I’m thinking I live in an alternative universe. Everyone gives you signals.
The woman’s responsibility is to ask questions about the guy. I’m not saying that if a woman asks a good guy if he’s a dog that he’ll break out with the PowerPoint presentation explaining how, yes, he ain’t worth sh!t, complete with videos of the women he’s dogged. However, unless you’re hitting it raw from Day One and the woman just gets pregnant like that, you have enough time between when you met and when you get knocked up to ask questions about people. A person has to be discerning about the people they keep around them. That’s a sign of maturity, and a woman who doesn’t know to do that isn’t but a girl in my eyes.
Pointless to argue with someone who believes all misfortune could have been foreseen. The illusion of control is a delicious addictive thing till reality knocks you to the ground and holds you there awhile.
So I don’t see how we disagree. Women can be fooled. I alluded to this earlier. What I am saying is that women just can’t say it’s all the man’s fault. A woman, heck, an adult human being has the right and responsibility to protect themselves. A woman who fails in that right and responsibility will get a bit of a side-eye from me. This doesn’t absolve the man, though. He has to live up to the lies he’s put out there.
it’s also pointless to argue with someone who believes all misfortune is someone’s fault other than their own, wildcougar. you act like the dude said something ridiculous by saying take your time and pick a good dude, not just one that’s good on paper. why are you so resistant to that general statement? sure, there may be instances where someone is a genius psychopath that gives no indication of his true colors until a year in when you’re knocked up. but those are exceptions! most times you’ll find out a ain’t-ish ninja ain’t ish if you take your time and pay attention! the occasional exception does not make this untrue! i swear, some of these comments from the vss’ on here make it seem like women don’t want to be held accountable for anything. all good things are a result of our brilliance and resilience, and all bad things are a result of smooth-talking tricksters. i’m not buying it. woman up!
and i’m a woman.
I made a very specific example of when the woman is not at fault. It’s not a rare occasion. It’s quite common. If you have a hard time seeing that, maybe you have an illusion of control.
” Really? If a guy acts like a good guy till the baby comes, what, pray tell, is the woman’s responsibility? You stretching here”
Wild Cougar- Seriously, I think that’s a cop out. I hear this so often from women but I don’t believe it because it’s the same convenient story that too many women are using. How do his parents feel about it? Did you already talk with him (and or his parents) about the possibility of a baby being born? Did you already talk to him about his views on marriage and his plans for it? Do you know his middle name? Sheesh. Women don’t usually know much more about these guys than where they work, where they live, what there interests and favorite forms of entertainment are, and their Zodiac sign. We’re all about instant gratification but that doesn’t work when you’re building another life with a person. Plus, what’s all this “when the baby comes”. The baby didn’t come from the stork. And I refuse to believe all these condoms are breaking….Is a man that walks completely out on his child dead ass wrong? Yes! However should we all be protecting our best interest? Triple yes! If I could get pregnant my whole perspective on sex (and especially unprotected sex) would be entirely different than it is as a man. And I’m actually one of the super cautious always use protection type of men. I don’t fully buy these “pregnancy brought out his demons and only then were his true colors shown” arguments. They’re too convenient and take all the onus off of the woman. I guess that’s the plan though huh?
I liked your comparison.
Naw, I think what you have is a situation where the woman who supposedly gets burned by the positive example outlined above is an exception. Then what happens is she is probably the most vocal in one of these debates or the women (and men) who get burned flock to these type of discussions. All of sudden the minority sounds like the majority. My point is (I do have one) that I rarely see a man about his sh*t walk away from responsibility. Can it happen? Sure. But my guess is said situation is in the minority.
@Wild Cougar
You could have married him first (knowing his assets & all) & then made a baby with him…
Women’s fault… Too Easy!!!
Women have alot of things going for them in 2011… Real Talk… You got to maximize your rights & privileges
” On the other hand, its not fair to place all the blame on the women for choosing trifling kneegrows when so many of them exist and hide it so well. ”
We are accountable for choosing him too quickly. There’s nothing wrong with pulling back and giving it more time to learn what is in his character before choosing him. ( I’m not so sure that choosing a man is an automatic translation that he will choose me and thus be the man I want to have. Better I find out what type of man he is before I accept his DNA in my life. ) I think being responsible for our choice means not giving away all of ourselves to men who just look good on paper and being able to walk away before we are feelings and DNA in this man.
The woman makes a strong argument. I agree it isn’t fair that women are placed as the social guards of the future of the black community, never-the-less you are. I’m sorry, but when you’re the general manager choosing which players you want for the team, the blame lands on you when that doesn’t mesh.
With that being said, just because the standards are low doesn’t mean you shouldn’t aspire than the expectations of those around you.. Most people don’t have very high aspirations though. Fun with bell curves and all that jazz.
Off-Topic: Yoles wanted me to tell our fellow VSP that the Brooklyn Museum is having free entry, like it does every month, on the First Saturday. Yoles and I are going. So you should come. I promise, no church hugs!
Yall are BRAVE! That first saturday will be jammed PACKED especially if ti proves to be a hot day like it has been this week.
I tend to agree with Jill that they it’s unfair to make them the social guards of the future, because they aren’t. We (black men and women) do it as a team, or quite simply, it doesn’t get done.
However I see nothing wrong with holding them accountable to their choices and the subsequent consequences.
” I agree it isn’t fair that women are placed as the social guards of the future of the black community, never-the-less you are.”
Isn’t this so cooooonnnnnnnveeeeennnient, mhm. Very Convenient argument for a man to put forth. No matter how bad, untrustworthy, irrational, selfish, and trifling ya’ll act, you can shift the blame to us? No need to take any accountability of your actions as men.
Wasn’t there not one, but, TWO Million Man Marches? And ya’ll *still* managed to not accomplish a damn thing. Turn the mirror on thyself please. Fix your own house.
EXACTLY
With that being said, just because the standards are low doesn’t mean you shouldn’t aspire than the expectations of those around you
I said it in the very same post. I guess this is a great example why women can’t find good guys. They see only want they want and latch on it like a leech.
Lessee, shall I assume you are one of those good guys? Who gets irritated that his comment was misread or not adequately recognized. Then generalizes the slight to some defect in all women, and compares them to leeches. So, you are one of those good guys women s. hould give a chance, right? Get my point?
tongue–in–cheek adj
Definition of TONGUE-IN-CHEEK
: characterized by insincerity, irony, or whimsical exaggeration
http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/tongue-in-cheek
Seriously. This is why ‘we’ can’t have a conversation if you’re going to make an effort to misconstrue any and everything I say to fit your agenda even if we already agree on certain points. It’s a waste of time.
Malik, lemme give you a good example of what I mean.
There is a guy I knew in college, we will call him L.
He considers himself to be a good catch. He thinks he is one of those ‘good guys’. L will be the first person to extoll to you all of his amazing qualities, that he is athletic, was in a greek org (diva dude alert), went to the Million Man March….mhm, all that.
He claims to be so spiritual, so down to each, so responsible.
Well, he ended up getting a freshman girl pregnant. Then dipped. He literally moved across the whole country to avoid taking care of that kid he made. If you talk to him on the West Coast, I bet you he still talks like he is this awesome dude and women in general are just not good enough.
Malik, lemme give you a good example of what I mean.
There is a guy I knew in college, we will call him L.
He considers himself to be a good catch. He thinks he is one of those ‘good guys’. L will be the first person to extoll to you all of his amazing qualities, that he is athletic, was in a greek org (diva dude alert), went to the Million Man March….mhm, all that.
He claims to be so spiritual, so down to earth, so responsible.
Well, he ended up getting a freshman girl pregnant. Then dipped. He literally moved across the whole country to avoid taking care of that kid he made. If you talk to him on the West Coast, I bet you he still talks like he is this awesome dude and women in general are just not good enough.
“Wasn’t there not one, but, TWO Million Man Marches? And ya’ll *still* managed to not accomplish a damn thing. Turn the mirror on thyself please. Fix your own house.”
Yes! Whether men want to believe it or not, women are still holding down the fort, even wit the bad choices. If the men don’t like how things are, no one is stopping them from making a difference.
” And ya’ll *still* managed to not accomplish a damn thing.”
really?
no seriously?
ya’ll sisters are on some new type ish this morning. this is what you think of our men? of our brothers and fathers? this saddens me.
I agree, Steez. I don’t give a fcuk what anybody says on this blog, Black men are on the come up and been on the come up. I’m married to a great Black man, his friends are phenomenal black men and my girls are married to phenomenal black men. We are really on some bullshyt right now y’all, and we’re supposed to be the smart ones. Good dudes make bad decisions sometimes. Good women make bad decisions sometimes. It is the nature of being human, rather than a deity. Smart people learn from their mistakes and chalk them up as experience. Smart people do not sit around and pontificate about blame and get mad because they don’t want to own their part. That shyt is the antithesis of smart. For those of us who are older, we are NOT setting a good example for the young VSSs and VSBs by going around and around in these ridiculous circles. Everybody needs to man up/ put their big girl panties on and own their bullshyt. It might smell bad, but its yours. Own it!
According to the name of the blog, we’re not just smart, we’re VERY SMART! Gotta tell ya… We are on some dumb-dumb shyt right now, doe. SMMFH.
girl, yes. these comments are breaking my heart! we’ll never make our way out of these problems if we just sit around pointing fingers. i’m far from blameless, i have fked an ain’t-ish ninja before. it’s just the grace of god that i don’t have an ain’t-ish baby daddy. but like u said, that’s all good, make ur mistakes, both genders. but take a look at your actions, check yourself! ur life is ur responsibility. everybody has changes that they can make, but we’re only responsible for the ones we can make for ourselves.
thank God for ur good black man and those your friends have found. some of these comments from the ladies would make u think they don’t exist.
this whole discussion is exhausting, i’m gonna try really hard not to comment again, lol!
I feel you . On both sides of the equation. You essentially have the folks who have been screwed over, yelling the loudest during these discussions. Why? Because they’ve been hurt the most. Human nature is to blame your environment before you blame yourself. We attract what we put out. Consequently, if we are attracting aint sh*t men/women, guess what…we’re probably exhibiting aint sh*t characteristics…or fishing with aint sh*t bait.
Yes, the only thing that came outta the Million Man marches was the sale of bean pies and red bowties.
If the first one was effectual there would not have been need for the second (which should have been renamed the 10,000 man march because there was a fraction of the people there.)
“Off-Topic: Yoles wanted me to tell our fellow VSP that the Brooklyn Museum is having free entry, like it does every month, on the First Saturday. Yoles and I are going. So you should come. I promise, no church hugs!”
darn. *snaps fingers* doing a lil…’side gig’….
i’ma try to check this out in September.
Hey, where are you guys meeting up? Holla at iluminat14@gmail.com so we can get it poppin.
But yeah, you’re right Malik. At some point, if all the players the GM is choosing suck, perhaps it’s time to make a change in the front office.
Ooops…that’s iluminati14@gmail.com. Sorry!
Yoles email is ImYolie226@gmail.com and she requested that you put your VSB handle in the subject. She doesn’t object to unsolicited peen pictures either.
Sent and Sent. ROTFLMAO
you LIE Malik no peen pics please
“Male behavior has always been the same. The only difference now is that it became cool for you all to be hoes.” O__O Is it cool for us to be hoes???
Neither one of them won this argument if you ask me –
if everything Jack is saying is true – then the new “Summer’s Eve” commercial is correct “ALL HAIL THE V”
Right. Like women are not being praised for whoredom at all. Even the mere thought of whoredom plagues women starting from middle school and extends well into adulthood. If you like a boy or are friendly with boys in MS or HS, then you’re a whore. Nevermind whether you are sleeping with them or not.
Meanwhile men can actively f-k as many women as possible at the same time and excuses are made and perceptions are that he’s just doing what men do.
So, I don’t know if saying it’s cool for women to be hos is a correct assertion.
Those sassy Vaj-jay-jay commercials are soo bad they’re good. I couldn’t stop laughing at the ridiculousness of it all. The sassy black vaj-jay-jay up in the club,going “Gurrrllll” and the “Aye Pappi” Latina vaj-jay-jay enjoying childbirth and leopard print thongs..Classic.
Summer’s Eve needs to stop, lol. Destroying the homeostasis of the vajayjay and then proclaiming “Hail to the V” gets you a kick in the shin.
cosign! please, just… don’t.
lmao! that commercial is so funny! and they premiered it at the harry potter movies- now whose idea was that lol
I’m going to blame Sex and the City for this one. A show about these sexually free women led a HUGE following of women to believe that sleeping around with a large number of men is acceptable, desirable and an exercise of our “freedom” as women.
I can’t even tell you how many black females i know who say they are going to “date like a white girl” meaning they will accept “dates” with various men, and if they are moved to sleep with the man that night, they will. Even if the relationship goes no where else, at least they got some. Now, I’m not saying this is absolutely awful, but if women are going to “date” like this, don’t be mad when you don’t get second dates or if you’re still single!
Also, these same chicks are listening to these no good loser men telling them that men like “sexually free” women who will sleep with them early in the game.
And so the comments section has become the post. Too-shay.
LMAO. Have a good night/morning yall.
Exactly. Champ can simply delete the post and post the comments.
Oh Champie…LOL I am so dead at the world’s smallest violin (a term I use all too often IRL) playing “Up Jumps The Boogie”. Love these “experts”…CTFU!
what does ‘CTFU’ mean?
nevermind #urbandictionary
Lol
#TeamJill
First of all, Youngstown, Oh is literally like 15 minutes from where I’m originally from so…that’s nice.
Anyway. The thing is this: when you start to play the “blame game” nothing is accomplished. So what if men run from responsibility and all want to be Alpha males, rap stars and hood-fab. So what if women say they want a good man like a la Cliff Huxtable but keep letting Ray-ray n’nem beat it up every other day that ends in -y…the real issue is what do we, black men and women, do about the sad state of relationship affairs in our community.
Personally, I don’t give a damn who’s at fault. I want it fixed. If that means women need to be more selective, then so be it. If that means men need to be more selective and less lead by their dycks, then so be it. It’s not rocket science but for a few of us, it does take letting go of social stereotypes about who we are and what we should aim for in terms of a mate in order to progress to stability in relationships.
Everyone can’t have Lance Gross, Boris and Idris. Some of us have to consider the “beta” male…and guess what? Nothing is wrong with him! On the contrary, every dude can’t bag Gaby Union, Halle or Nia Long. Some of y’all have to be real with yourselves and know that the woman you’re looking for is likely smart, shy, not model thin or video chick thick, etc, etc, but she’s a good woman nonetheless.
The finger pointing and “who’s right and wrong” do nothing but keep the cycle going. If that’s the aim, then okay. But if not, then it’s time for everyone to just man the hell up and do the right thing.
Personally, I don’t give a damn who’s at fault. I want it fixed.
what she said.
*applauds.
+2
+3
+4
+5
+6
+7, 8 and 9!
It’s the 10 Black Commandments
LMFAO!!!!!
CNOTES!!! THE HAIR!!! SO CUTE!
Thanks KB! : )
“Personally, I don’t give a damn who’s at fault. I want it fixed. If that means women need to be more selective, then so be it. If that means men need to be more selective and less lead by their dycks, then so be it.”
BOOM! That’s it right there! If we continue pointing finger nothing will ever be accomplished. Its not about being on the winning team, but about taking responsibilities for your own behavior and not putting it all on the group. Society dictates a lot of what we do in life, but we can’t put all the blame on it. It wasn’t society that forced you to walk out on your family or continually shack up with Ray-Ray for the past ten years as he cheats on you. it was YOU! We have to figure out where we went wrong, accept it, and make efforts to end this type of behavior. Essentially, the whole community #fails when we carry on like idiots.
you’re right. this is all a big blame game. but honestly, i don’t think anyone is ready to quit. we’re ready for the OTHER side to quit, yeah. but individuals? what guy actually wants to stop using his penis as much as possible? what woman doesnt want to be thoroughly handled by thugged out boris kodjoe doppelgangers? Problems don’t really get solved until we see the issue in ourselves, and are ready to be unselfish enough to resolve it. Right now though, we all in selfish mode.
And ladies, i have an honest question: do yall date within yall’s means? I mean like are yall 7′s looking for 7′s? Are yall 6′s lookin for 10′s? Are yall 8′s settling for 4′s?
“Everyone can’t have Lance Gross, Boris and Idris. Some of us have to consider the “beta” male…and guess what? Nothing is wrong with him! On the contrary, every dude can’t bag Gaby Union, Halle or Nia Long. Some of y’all have to be real with yourselves and know that the woman you’re looking for is likely smart, shy, not model thin or video chick thick, etc, etc, but she’s a good woman nonetheless.”
I love the way this was worded! I think we as VSP need to understand the realistic chances we have at finding that “one” and learn what it truly looks like to have our needs met…then Ray Ray and Bon Qui Qui can have each other
INDEED, that’s a great post!
w.e I aint no beta tho *folds arms*
In nature, the alpha male is smanging every woman in the pack.
So maybe… humans expecting an alpha male to be monogamus is against the rules of nature?
I ain’t sayin its right…but it is what it is.
And in nature, death and old age are the only things slowing down an Alpha male…
I agree.
Personally, I don’t give a damn who’s at fault. I want it fixed. If that means women need to be more selective, then so be it. If that means men need to be more selective and less lead by their dycks, then so be it. It’s not rocket science but for a few of us, it does take letting go of social stereotypes about who we are and what we should aim for in terms of a mate in order to progress to stability in relationships.
Mo–you summed up my sentiments exactly.
Chuuch AND Tabernacle. But why you gotta go takin’ all the fun and ratchetness out of the post, Mo? lol
You love it!
Which one of you is gonna cop to being the “Beta” mate? That’s what I want to know. Which one of you is going to be someone else’s second tier selection?
LMAO, it’s not about being second tier. Beta males are just more settled into being themselves and knowing what they have to offer. Shoot, alpha males can learn a thing or two from them when they are ready to stop the playboy ratchetness and settle down.
Still not hearing anyone cop to it. LOL. So are you a Beta Female Mo? Are you settled into being yourself and knowing what you have to offer (assuming that’s what it is to be a Beta)?
You gonna cop to being the Beta?
Damn right! By my definition I sure am settled into myself and know what I have to offer. And who wouldn’t be comfy with that? I’m not the 10 dude are fighting over. I’m not the chick with the video vixen bod. I’m not the girl who is every man’s fantasy. And guess what? I don’t care. The man who is for me won’t care either. I’m pretty, sexy, have an awesome personality, am fit, work hard for a living, educated, street smart and aware of my flaws. And I’m fine with all of that. If that makes me “less than” in anyone’s eyes, it’s their loss. Not mine.
Co-MF’n-Sign!! By that definition, I’ll gladly wear the Beta badge!
**** I’m pretty, sexy, have an awesome personality, am fit, work hard for a living, educated, street smart and aware of my flaws.****
Pretty is desirable
Sexy is desirable
Awesome personality is desirable
fit is desirable
hard working is desirable
educated is desriable
street smart is desirable
I’m just saying Mo. How you gon’ proudly proclaim yourself Beta and yet claim all the characteristics that establishes an Alpha-Female? LOL. You can’t have it both ways.
Pretty is desirable
Sexy is desirable
Awesome personality is desirable
fit is desirable
hard working is desirable
educated is desriable
street smart is desirable
Just because I see myself as pretty, sexy, awesome, fit, hard working, educated, and street smart doesn’t mean that every man is going to see those things in me. Beimng comfortable in myself is all about me knowing that ish for myself and giving the middle finger to anyone else who doesn’t feel the same. Ain’t nobody fighting over me, but that doesn’t make me any less valuable than the women who the men are fighting over. That’s what it’s about. I don’t have to be a self loathing sloth, to know that I’m not a 10, or a 9, or an 8 or even a 7. I can rock the shyt out of my 6-ness, and pull whoever is interested.
****Just because I see myself as pretty, sexy, awesome, fit, hard working, educated, and street smart doesn’t mean that every man is going to see those things in me.****
You are right, every man isn’t attracted to the chick that is pretty, sexy, awesome personality, fit, hard working, educated, and street smart… just 98.9% of them…
…making them Alpha Females (such as it were).
Let me see if I can illustrate what I’m getting at.
If you met a dude and he was:
Handsome, sexy, had an awesome personality, worked out in a gym, was hard working, educated, and street smart…
…on any day of the week do you refer to this as a Beta-Male? Does he not have the qualities that you and 99% of other women want? So then how is he NOT an Alpha Male?
If the only thing Beta about you is your title, you aren’t a Beta.
Women underestimate the power of confidence. Sexiness more often than not originates from within….to an extent.
LOL, methinks you are confuzzled about the role of beta. Betas are alpha-lites – we can theoretically do everything the alphas do, and will do it in a pinch, but aren’t naturally at the top of everydangthing all the dang time. Betas have all of the qualities of alphas, but in lesser (or less apparent) amounts. Women who aren’t pretty, sexy, fit, hardworking, educated, streetsmart, and dont have awesome personalities are omegas.
And now you know, and knowing is half the battle.
Exactly. Beta is no where near the bottom of the food chain. These omegas (no Bruh) trying to disguise themselves as betas have caused all manner of confusion.
LOL, I’m not confuzzled, I’m confrused. If I didn’t know any better I’d think this was some sort of inverted “Black Doll White Doll” Experiment where participants refuse to attribute any tangible negative characteristics to Beta-dom because they already identify with that group.
I’d like to know what Gammas are if anyone wants to take a stab at it, there’s a whole Greek Letter Alphabet Pecking Order that I have never seen before. LOL
lol, I shant define gammas, except to say that they are less alpha than even betas are!
But seriously, it’s not about the absence of negative qualities, but lesser presence/intensity of positive ones. The POTUS is alpha, Kevin Powell is beta, and somebody like Andrew Gillum [tallahassee, fl] would be a weak beta/gamma. They are all successful, educated, charismatic, nice looking dudes (to most people, anyway). Clearly one is stronger than the rest. Doesn’t mean the rest are bad, just that they aren’t stuntin’ on dem bros like the pack leader.
By this definition, I’m a beta female as well. Yay me.
“Which one of you is gonna cop to being the “Beta” mate? That’s what I want to know. Which one of you is going to be someone else’s second tier selection?”
<– 3rd option….i come in the 8th inning for the 4 out save lol
*sings which one of y’all…
sorry. carry on.
By default, wouldn’t all the dudes complaining about women only chasing alphas and chexing Pookies and NuckNucks be betas, gammas, deltas (no sorors), …. and omegas (no bruhs)? I mean, why complain if you are getting all the attention from all the misguided women dating & mating against their own best interest?
The term beta has been woefully abused in this post (betas are not second tier. they are like students with 3.75 GPAS – not the valedictorian but definitely meet the criteria for admission). If men were quite serious about being VSBs, then betas would be the very best thing to be out of the non-alpha group. #thatslogic
“Some of y’all have to be real with yourselves and know that the woman you’re looking for is likely smart, shy, not model thin or video chick thick, etc, etc, but she’s a good woman nonetheless. “
Can’t even front. Them girls between who fall anywhere model thin and video chick are the bizniz….
anywhere between*
“Personally, I don’t give a damn who’s at fault. I want it fixed. If that means women need to be more selective, then so be it. If that means men need to be more selective and less lead by their dycks, then so be it. It’s not rocket science but for a few of us, it does take letting go of social stereotypes about who we are and what we should aim for in terms of a mate in order to progress to stability in relationships.”
The solution is a simple dirty phrase… get married.
Real talk… we don’t want to admit that we spend most of our lives playing at being grown and responsible without acknowledging that part of grown is commitment.
Culturally we have embraced babies momma’s and baby dady’s but we don’t build families… because we are not enough ready, not enough money, not enough successful, not enough there yet.
What are we waiting for I wonder… because we already have the benefits and burdens of real commitment but we are satisfied just stamping an expiration date on something and calling it a potential mistake instead of going all in and working towards its potential success.
And for black folks a 50% divorce rate is a much better stat than what we got going for us now… we got to go back at least 3 generations to figure out how to make better choices and we all got smartphones.
Look, if you walk around the planet long enough you realize that f*cking aint grown folks love… at least not the way we are doing it.
Scorching and burning earth, leaving salt so nothing good will grow there.
We are renting and leasing each others lives with no serious consideration of the option to own
If brothas said they were looking for a wife and not a place to bust a nut you would see sistas behavior follow suit and different choices being made… on my momma I say this.
Sistas are letting their freak flag fly in hope… that they will get chosen, because we think that’s what brothas want, and with fingers crossed you might turn a hoe into a housewife… no young girl dreams of one day being skeeted on or gargling c*m… you just got to trust me on this one.
Most of the conversations we have are in the context of getting it in with no thought of forever… so if we only give ourselves the option of here and now we are going to use the most superficial of criteria so we can have material comfort or physical pleasure.
We deserve better than that.
I think we are addicted to fault finding and finger pointing instead of modeling what works… bringing the focus to finding life partners.
The first step should be admitting that we are powerless before the blame game, then making amends to those that we have hurt and freeing ourselves to move on to trust, love and real commitment
I don’t think we are so much mad at each other… we are just disappointed in our choices ~JS
@Jhane Sez
Women have to force the issue with marriage, because there is no benefit or reward for a man to be married…
“Women have to force the issue with marriage, because there is no benefit or reward for a man to be married…”
Actually this isn’t true.
Statistics show that men who are married fair better emotionally, financially and physically… but me being who I am am will go for the anecdotal.
Let you see what my eyes can see… I’ll be brief because I have told this story before.
I was in a conversation with several non black men who were C-level executives of their own companies, that had been launched though venture capitalist funding.
These were non black men in their 20’s who spoke of their success in terms of not being achievable without their wives and partners.
Theses men were talking about wives, children and property in terms of building a legacy, while the brothas in their midst were still talking about getting it in and not being ready to settle.
The brothas who were trying to attain that level, and get a seat at the table were in their late 30’s and early 40’s… still rapping about not lovin them hoes and at best saying that they hadn’t found the “right one yet”.
There is a lack of acknowledgement that failure to commit is viewed by the mainstream as a mark of immaturity and instability… especially for black men who we acknowledge come to the plate with a couple of strikes from the jump.
Think about it… the media portrays all these qualified, certified for mating sistas and black men still say no.
The society at large isn’t as critical of the sistas because they meet the check list… but they are, more, and more turning a critical eye to black men.
Somebody is going to ask… why you got both hands full and still acting up.
Not because they are black, more that they won’t play the game that non black men play.
Note: this clearly falls under d*mnit I had to say it.
Real talk…. when you get to a certain level black men are viewed as less stable because they aren’t committed and don’t own when their younger counter parts are and do.
The truth is that not being married is a really bad look for brothas on the climb.
Honestly look at your non black counter parts and those who are in the positions above, and ask yourselves, are they married.
Cause what the boss man drinks, you better be sipping on too if you want to get ahead.. at least that the way I was taught to sell.
Re: mirroring the behaviors and mores of the climb… truth is, well y’all are just falling short.
As a pure observation I would say that brothas are on average 10 plus years behind the curve with a healthy dose of side eye from those who still hold the reigns and it ain’t so much color as behavior… because by larger culture standards it is well known that there is a surplus of good, marriageable sistas and y’all still single.
How long did you think it would be before folks would look at brothas and wonder what is wrong with y’all…. because the stats say that even when you get with non black women you still aren’t committing.
So your younger non black counter parts, who in some cases maybe superiors are wondering about brothas character, and ability to be stable contributors… or in modern HR speak “fit in with the culture”.
The low marriage rates overall of brothas contributes to their lack of ability to climb.
And while there is the George Clooney (Idris) exception, you have admitted by your own words that these men are exceptions, when these non black dudes see you on the professional field of play, they can not view you as equals because you don’t have the same skin in the game.
You ain’t got a mortage, wife and kids… so to them you are still a kid, playing at being grown.
So while you may enjoy a short term social gain, I would be looking, HARD, at your long term professional disadvantage.
Because you don’t fit… and the money game… the real money game, is all about conformity.
And it seems brothas have opted for the cool look, over the win.
And in the eyes of the powers that be, regardless of age, you still haven’t put your big boy pants on if you ain’t married. ~JS
JS,
I like the overall message in what you’re saying, but I can’t cosign that marriage is the cure for what’s going on. And to equate being married with gaining more respect in the workplace, I’m sorry but you’re going to need more people, because all you’ve really done is set up a false conflict. Corporate America couldn’t care any less about your marital status. What matters is the bottom line, and that’s their bottom line and how far in the black it is.
Also, what the group of C-Levels say and what the numbers say don’t blend.
For example (according to Molloy et. al):
Most men will not consider marriage before they reach the age of commitment
For 80% of high school graduates, 23
For 80% of college graduates, 26
For college men, the high-commitment period is 28-33
For men who go to graduate school, 30-36
After the age of 37-38, the chances that he’ll commit drops dramatically. After 43, it drops even more
A corollary to that is this: Most men will not contemplate marriage until they have been working and living as independent adults for several years (hence the high-commitment periods).
Also, instead of just facts and numbers, my own personal example. A guy I graduated college with was just married almost two weeks ago. He and another friend of mine are both hospital executives. Another groomsman (and myself) are both healthcare clinicians, another is an Acquisitions attorney in Chicago. The groom is only the second of five to be married, yet this hasn’t stopped any of our ‘success’ (we are all young, Black, and still “on the climb”.)
Now not only does this negate your example, but the bigger picture is being able to claim an exception (or 100) doesn’t negate the rule. Unfortunately despite what we’re doing Black male college attendance continues to dwindle, while Black males in correctional facilities continues to climb. Which is much likelier to be the reason, over marriage, why our “Non-Black counter parts in the positions above” may be married. “College-educated” seems to be a little bit more of a commitment type than “multiple ex-con”.
nah,
jhane is right, anecdotal evidence aside: older married grown folk look down on unmarried successful people. you can’t get around that. Hell, even married couples with no kids are looked down upon. is it right? nope. Being unmarried can bring negative attention to yourself in certain evironments -> but don’t get married JUST for those reasons. Jhane tryn to say that there are benefits to getting married that folks may not see.
look, find a partner and stick with em, its going to be hard, painful, scary, awesome, fun, incredible -> like a roller coaster. just don’t be scared, and you’ll be alright.
older married grown folk look down on unmarried successful people. you can’t get around that. Hell, even married couples with no kids are looked down upon.
^^^ I think this is because starting a family:
A. Caters toward the greater goal of maintaining a legacy
B. Contributes more educated, socially responsible people to society
C. Is easily the most unselfish thing someone can do.
Crazy how all of this is typically initiated by us, men. But with incarceration, death rates, poverty, poor education, and unemployment are all sky high amongst us, the initiators are missing!
Agreed. That being said. Mainstream corporate america also looks down on the wrong mate as well. I will agree that you are viewed as unstable without a family in corporate america once you get past a certain age. The reason being that corporations, law firms, etc. like people who will stick around. A single man can pick up and dip quicker than a married man with a family.
Then again, if you’re a black man who’s successfully navigated life to break into corporate america, chances are you’ve already defied the odds anyway and probably possess characteristics which could help you overcome this preconceived notion of instability as a single male.
*claps* for the evidence-based reply… gotta love clinicians!
*claps* for the evidence-based reply… gotta love clinicians!
“Corporate America couldn’t care any less about your marital status. What matters is the bottom line, and that’s their bottom line and how far in the black it is.”
Wrong… Corporate America is actually most concerned with preserving a culture that leads to accumulating and maintaining wealth and they reward men most who are married and have children… because this is the image and the model most associated with success.
Yeah, the company at large doesn’t care but the people making decisions factor it in. Especially in HR because they know your business..The married dude with dependents is perceived as more responsible than the brotha non married even with dependents…
Married men get paid more, get larger signing bonuses and relocation packages because the assumption is he has to move/take care of his family (shell out the deductions for benefits) also… this is backed by statistics.
Not to mention the social aspect where a good portion of business is done and decisions about the trajectory for careers are made.
Nobody wants to do social events with couples, kids and the single ninjas.
And its not just as simple as bringing a girlfriend or date, in order to get inner circle socially… because lets be real there is still a ‘concern’ that the brothas will be in the mix trying to mack on non black single subordinates and associates
Your spouse or partner has to fit in the mix as well, no one wants to see a different face at every event… the dudes may high five you across the cubical for getting it in or talk about how much marriage sucks over a beer, but you won’t get that invite to bbq with the other families and you won’t get face time with the company VP… because you won’t be invited.
The truth is even divorce is a better look… because statistically speaking divorced men don’t stay single long after and they still benefit from the perception of being more stable and responsible they have a track record.
Track your own peer group over the next 5 to 10 years and make note of where the married vs the single dudes are in their careers… that is where you will really see the gap start to widen.
Look at the brothas who are sitting at the top, not only are most married with kids, most of those dudes are working on being married for 10, 15, 20 plus years.
The successful climb is more than the degree and the right suit… it is mirroring the successful and that includes marriage ~JS
“Because you don’t fit… and the money game… the real money game, is all about conformity.”
got daYUM lay it DOWN
Married men in the corporate world have high rates of infidelity.
Are you of the belief that getting married leads people to become invested in sustaining and nurturing the marriage if they were previously focused on “getting theirs in” without thought of forever?
Marriage isn’t Jack and Jill or pledging Delta or society membership. It is an institution that is easy to get in and expensive to get out of if you divorce. Marriage cannot turn an unsatisfying relationship into one that satisfies both partners. They should already have what they seek in each other before they marry. But that’s just how I think.
You and me alike.
I like the way you think.
Me too.
You all make good points here, and I can agree with a bit of each perspective. But to me, one thing is undeniable.
Numbers aside (b/c there are stats that will support either claim), there IS a certain increase in the level of respect once a man is married. This is ESPECIALLY true in fields that are more gender-diverse and more publicly visible. Perhaps it’s not very easy to quantify, and we tend to be resistant to that which can’t be quantified, but it is certainly present. People (particularly older people) associate a man getting married with his “growing up”.
Call it misguided, unfair, bias, accurate or whatever, but it’s the truth. Our society values marriage. Don’t believe me? How many Presidents of the United States have been bachelors? How many highly visible politicians in general have been bachelors? Why were people SO disgusted with the married Tiger Woods’ sexploits?
Now…with that said, this “respect boost” isn’t permanent…or rather it isn’t immune to tarnishing. A man’s shameful actions can significantly soil his image once he’s married.
But why is that? *looks to the crowd for an eager respondent*
That’s right, kids…it’s because we (as a society) expect more of married men than we do of single men. Why? Because our society values marriage.
“Our society values marriage. Don’t believe me? How many Presidents of the United States have been bachelors? How many highly visible politicians in general have been bachelors”
James Buchanan was the only bachelor President that i know of…unfortunately his legacy is that he more or less set the stage for the Civil War
Ed Koch, former Mayor of NYC, Senator Lindsey Graham of SC are 2 never-married politicians i can think of, i believe there are a couple of more US Senators that have not been married…
but i get your point.
Right. They no doubt exist(ed), but they aren’t typical…or even common. As a society, we tend not to vote for them.
And perhaps that’s f*cked up…but that’s how it is.
there is a huge benefit to being married ! its just popular for fellas to say otherwise.
I believe you can have real commitment without marriage.
On point, the way you’ve summed it up! We have the same issues in Kenya, and people still cant seem to ‘get real nuff with ‘emselves’ and do the right thing much less accept the right person for them. We all want to be like Mike..but all we need is one Mic! #SMH
The finger pointing and “who’s right and wrong” do nothing but keep the cycle going. If that’s the aim, then okay. But if not, then it’s time for everyone to just man the hell up and do the right thing.
All of this. And truth be told, I think this is the aim for some. Its easier to play the blame game because it doesn’t require you to take a critical look at yourself. The more time you spend blaming someone else, the less time you spend working on your own sh*t. Great points, Mo! Nailed it…
+1
+2
As soon as I read this back and forth between Jack and Jill, I imagined the Devil doing the *Birdman Hand-Rub* and cackling in the background.
As long as we VSBs and VSSs speak in generalities like this fake convo, we start to erode the hope and faith needed to find our respective life partners. I’ll just refuse to give up, pray, and try to stay positive.
*KanyeShrug* *takes black behind to bed*
Great satire Champ,
I said upthread Jack won by TKO but truthfully, it was a solid draw. In my mind though, this was tha right hook Jill didn’t see comin:
Instead, you end up being led by your stupid-ass p*ssy, and instead of meeting men who you know already have those traits, you end up falling for some loser, hoping that he’ll eventually have them too. And, as long as there is no incentive to be “good” — and by “incentive” I mean “p*ssy” — you’re going to see more and more men go the dog route.
But she got off tha mat wit this:
Also, do you realize that you’re trying to convince me that a man’s truest instinct is to run away from responsibilities they created? You do realize that, right? You’re basically trying to get me to believe that an unpoliced black man will do something that no other animal in the entire f*cking kingdom does? Do you really want to “win” that argument and convince me that even roaches have more of a moral foundation that black men?
lol. Too funny.
It’s not that we don’t meet those men. We just choose to ignore them. At least we do when we’re young and dumb. And seriously, if you’ve not grown up with a real man in your life (father, stepfather, somebody), there are consequences to the types of men one becomes/chooses. A fatherless girl will grow up and maybe try to find what she THINKS is a real man but in reality is a boy masquerading as such. And a fatherless boy, he grows up and aims to become what he thinks a man is, which is usually not at all on target.
There’s a saying…if you don’t learn it at home, then the streets end up teaching you. That’s what’s happening in a lot of situations with black men and women.
I can agree with that Mo…
You know I’d like to agree with the lack of the male figure in the home being part of the problem but in the context that you’re suggesting here I don’t think it is. I mean it’s a problem in general but the selections that women make, I think, would happen with or without father figures.
In fact, I’d say that women are equally as clueless about men, as men are clueless about women. Their poor choices we make usually result from applying our thought processes to the opposite sex and expecting them to think and behave as we do.
@Mo-VSS
I hear you Mo… But I will not pay full price (committment) when you are in your 30s for what you gave out at a discount (unintended jumpoff) in your 20s…
Hopefully some poor sucker will buy that…
And I believe in restricting women’s sexuality… Not as harsh at the Mooslims… But it keeps the males in check…
“And I believe in restricting women’s sexuality… Not as harsh at the Mooslims… But it keeps the males in check.”
There’s no need to restrict women’s sexuality. How about we just go back to the old shotgun wedding system? Hot lead keeps males in check, too you know. And it was always fun seeing those so-called “alpha males” taken off the market by a shotgun toting father or a group of the woman’s male relatives. In fact, there weren’t many guys going around bragging about playing women or dogging women out when the old shotgun wedding system was in effect.
It’s also important to note that the divorce rate for shotgun weddings was also extremly low, as you were expected to be married for at least forty five years before you could even think about leaving. Unless you were willing to risk being shot, of course.
*snickering*
My Dad told me about an older cousin who was married in a shotgun wedding…LOL She’d gotten preggo by a dude she was seeing (they were like 15/16 at the time), and her Pops, couple uncles & some friends went over to the kats house with the “art of gentle persuasion”.
They’re still married…ha!
Restricting women’s sexuality does not keep the males in check. All it does is push behavior – which has been on this earth since Adam and Eve got evicted from the garden – out of the public eye and behind closed doors. And the fruit of hiding this mess is forced polygamy, rape, sexual assault, sex trafficking, and horrendous abuses of vulnerable populations [usually women and children].
Truth.
@Be On It Maybe… But even in this sexually free climate, people still get taken advantaged of s*xually… Those same scenarios you describe…
Now, again you can reserve the right to sleep with who you want to sleep with… But when sh*t goes wrong (one caveat: death of the biological father), don’t ask non-biological man to raise your child… or the government to pay for it…
” And a fatherless boy, he grows up and aims to become what he thinks a man is, which is usually not at all on target.”
sometimes males with fathers have bad connotations of what a real man is. a large portion of what we consider a real man, is what other “alpha” women find attractive. If males (boys) see/watch the choices the most desirable females make in mates, boys may change their behavior to match what those girls are looking for.
” sometimes males with fathers have bad connotations of what a real man is. a large portion of what we consider a real man, is what other “alpha” women find attractive. If males (boys) see/watch the choices the most desirable females make in mates, boys may change their behavior to match what those girls are looking for.”
Ding ding ding. That’s all most of us are trying to say. Not that men deserve no blame for their irresponsible actions. What attracts beautiful women will always matter more (to boys and young men) than what will earn them moral approval or a pat on the back. In this cultural climate at least. The male commenters are basically asking women to stop ignoring this fact or downplaying its importance in this disaster. It’s certainly not the only or even the most important cause of all this, but it is a significant and dangerous factor nonetheless. Hence the men’s frustration with so many of the choices we see in our day to day lives. It always just seems so obvious to us, but I realize this isn’t always the case. The whole thing really is depressing sometimes :/
Welp. Lemme tell you what I’m gonna do. Imma sit here, sip my Arnold Palmer, eat my cheap pizza, and gaze at the obligatory responses from
Concerned Menover-the-top blog personalities,who I can’t imagine having ever gotten puzzy without a monetary depositwho’ll once again use a post of this nature as a platform to spew thinly veiled contemptuous and misogynist rhetoric, to compensate for years of prepubescent and adult hood rejection from black women who ain’t want their asses in school. It will be amusing. It will be expected.*Refills Cup*
Can we start bets on the posters who will lead the charge? Cuz I have a list…
30 bux on Nathan Lane and his No Ma’aam apostles
D.E.A.D.
*extends fist bump of nuclear strength for drinking an Arnold Palmer*
Daps it up, blesses it down
*butts in*
Are those normal Arnold Palmers or “spicy” ’cause I’ve got some Schmirnoff that would mix well with that.
I swear I’m not a lush.“Spicy” I spike it with Tequila.
Hmmmm… me and Pat Ron go way back. Lemme try some of that, Misty.
*shares birthday cake with Misty….
Ohhh Cake! and Happy Belated BDay Ma’am
it’s today! and thanks!
Happy Birthday!
thank ya kindly!
Happy Birthday Misty Knight & Happy Birthday Keisha Brown!
LOL Thanx but it is KB’s BDay not mine! I just got me some cake.
Gotta few in mind too….
O/T – anyone heard from Tes?? haven’t seen her post in a while.
Tes has been MIA lately..kinda miss the lil Jewish Enthusiast.
Wait…she’s jewish?!? didn’t know that.
Naw, she just like Jewish dudes #WeirdFetish
Happy birthday!!
Shots fired!
Although I’m relatively new to VSB I can think of a couple of offenders.
This ain’t going to help them none at all. Maybe nothing will but I ask “why pile on?” Kicking a dead horse seems to be against purpose. And they say???
Sagey I’m not here to enlighten and help them DC Comic, USA network “Characters Welcome” ace Ni@@a’s. Nor are they here to be helped.
*Starts Blasting “Don’t Save Her”*
Yeah right. Misty that is exactly why you came
For this very reason, I’ll be taking a VSB break today. I’ll say my peace tonight, but after that – deuces.
*piece
Here’s my thing though. A man being bitter over being rejected by women is bad, but a woman being bitter by being rejected by men is A-OK? What part of the game is that? LOL
The difference is the way men react to rejection. How many foaming at the mouth man haters you see posting here? Men can’t take it. They lose their minds.
@Wild Cougar
“The difference is the way men react to rejection. How many foaming at the mouth man haters you see posting here? Men can’t take it. They lose their minds.”
I disagree. Men can take rejection in dating and approaching women. Women can’t. Women can take rejection in relationships. Men can’t.
I repeat, how many foaming at the mouth men haters post here?
Well you are one. You got any friends??? Count them too. lol
Women do lose their minds too. While men cry into their blogs and shoot at the prostitutes on GTA4, women go out into the dating market and throw their bitterness at other men. Back when I was still hurting from my mother’s emotional abuse, I dealt with a lot of women who were rebounding from relationships from ain’t shyt men…and ended up receiving the emotional abuse they wished they had the balls to throw back at their men. It took me finally coming to grips with the fact that my mama ain’t shyt and dealing with the pain from that that I started to see the worth in women.
Then, I met my wife who had way more in pain than all the previous men, and who forced me to do more work on my emotional abuse issues. Ah well.
I’m not talking about men in general, nor am I saying they don’t have a right to also be bitter. I’m talking about these made for TV ace ni@@as on here that can never offer real personal anecdotes or context because it’s obvious they’ve never had a real relationship, and inflate and exaggerate their interaction with women. They are usually never able to engage in a “discussion” because that might force them “out of character”, and then they might have to respond like a real human being instead of dabbling in the generalities, stereotypes, and vilification of the opposite sex. Name one VSS on here that remotely mirrors that?
well,
those “made-for-TV” brothers seem to have gotten you miffed. just ignore them, no need to put em on blast – their stuff is self-evident / self-critiquing .
there are more important things in this world to worry about.
http://media.zenfs.com/en/blogs/thecutline/nyt-somalia.jpg
Fair enough.
That’s why I try to couch my knowledge in experience. No one wants to hear someone speak from an Ivory Tower when they have no real-life experience.
I can appreciate that, but wouldnt you agree that personal experiences can skew the conversation. The flip side is when all these damaged folks get on here with their sob stories and proceed to attribute their ghetto veggie tale to all women or men. I’m all for anecdotes, but more often than not the anecdote is the exception and not the rule.
Dead
This wasn’t really a conversation. It was two people talking at each other.
I rarely if ever discuss “relationship” issues anymore. While the other person can be a factor, the person you really have to deal with is the woman or man in the mirror. The best way to find the relationship you want and deserve is to have a great relationship with yourself.
That means actually loving, liking, and accepting yourself…where you are right now at this moment…with nothing being different. Having a real relationship with yourself (and another) also requires that you be honest, vulnerable, and very clear about what you want. Mind you, the journey to having a great relationship with yourself isn’t easy, but once you get there, everything in your life will flow much better…including finding a life partner/companion/marriage or whatever it is that you want.
That may sound trite or like an Oprah sound bite. Regardless, it’s unadulterated truth. Like Sharon Jones and the Dap Kings, I learned the hard way. Love yourself (truly), and you’ll never accept anything else from anyone else. And you won’t have to.
Addendum: And the reason why so many black men and women have a difficult time doing the above is because our society makes it more than challenging for black people to truly love themselves. So many things (family/parents, friends, religion/church, capitalism, racism/white supremacy, patriarchy) work against that. You can never truly love another person (and I’m using love as a verb…not as a noun, i.e. something “you fall into”) if you do not love yourself. (And for the record, caretaking is not the same thing as loving.)
@Monday
Amen! i think a common motif in the black community (I extend this to all my people of African decent) is “responsibility” and taking care of what is yours. But all we are taught is to take care, own up to such and such. Girls are taught to take care of their children, boys are taught that a man takes care of his family. But we are rarely taught to LOVE the only thing we came into the world with, which is ourselves. You can’t love another person if you don’t know who you are. We don’t take the time out to learn this important lesson: who am I? what do I like? what do I truly want out of life? Add this to dysfunctional arse families, media, and ten years of listening to Lil Wayne and you get a boo boo bag of a person. Confused and unsure of themselves but thrown into the world of relationships.
“You can’t love another person if you don’t know who you are.”
Very true. And I’ll go a step further and say if you can’t accept yourself as you are, you’ll *never* accept someone else as they are. Hence, people feel the need to find someone who is perfect, without flaws. And they’ll keep dating and dating and never find that person (because they don’t exist). It can be a vicious cycle. The change has to start within.
@Monday’s Baby
“So many things (family/parents, friends, religion/church, capitalism, racism/white supremacy, patriarchy) work against that.”
Word. Especially since some of those things listed were not created by us for us. I think a lot of our problems stem from adopting parts of a culture that’s not native to us.
Touche’
Monday on here spittin that TRUTH.
The best way to find the relationship you want and deserve is to have a great relationship with yourself ***ilovesmesumme***
Short of quarantining all the alpha thugs to an island and shotguns to the back of the head, where do the educated bros fall in this spectrum…
And men have been dissected frogs since the 70′s so, I know I ain’t sh*t,
We can’t even get women to admit that hypergamy exists, yet the babies keep popping out…
Where is it all going…?
Good comment.
Black women *just recently* starting actching any kind of flak on this stuff, but black men have been raked over the coals so much and for so long that we think of it as just natural and don’t notice it anymore.
This was a pretty amazing summation of the various arguments I’ve heard on the topic. You effectively pointed out the flaws in both sides and recognized the validity in both sides.
*applause*
Wow. This is disappointing to read.
You realize this is a black American people thing, right. Not a black thing, not an African thing, not a Caribbean thing, its a black AMERICAN thing. Its not embedded in male DNA to walk away from the the task of being a provider for their kids. The deadbeat dad is an ingrained and accepted part of black American culture… other men around the world (and from other races) DON’T THINK LIKE THIS.
If this “Jack” supposed to be representative of black American men, I don’t want to be any part of it. I would encourage other women to date outside their culture…. African men, white men don’t have the visceral aversion to fatherhood that so many black american men seem to have.
I mean, really. This post was ridic.
There are alot of familes from African cultures and carribean cultures who dont have their father in their life. Now maybe you dont see it as much in those countries outside of the US but people from those cultures who do live in America are faced with the same situation.
We can’t change the problem if we won’t acknowledge it or take accountability. Yes, there are deadbeat dads in all cultures. However, the statistics in the African American community are rivaled by no other. Seventy percent of our children are born to single mothers. That is an epidemic. Deflection is not going to help solve the problem.
71% are raised/live in homes led by single mothers. Something like 40-50ish percent are born to single mothers. And, because we don’t track ethnicity/cultural origin of the different “types” of black people in this country, there is no way to know what percentage of Caribbean, African, and South American blacks have single parent households.
The deadbeat dad is an ingrained part of AMERICAN CULTURE as I could list a ton of white men who have gone to the grocery store and never returned. Bruce Springsteen even wrote a song about it and I doubt that he was talking about Ray-Ray, Pookie and C-Money.
I look forward to the day that I’m a husband and a father. My father set the bar pretty high and he made sure to let me know that being a father was the most important job I would ever have as a man.
@Smilez
“You realize this is a black American people thing, right. Not a black thing, not an African thing, not a Caribbean thing, its a black AMERICAN thing.”
I don’t know about this one. I KNOW of and have seen Caribbean and African men bounce on their woman and families.
“You realize this is a black American people thing, right. Not a black thing, not an African thing, not a Caribbean thing, its a black AMERICAN thing”
Can you tell this to my cousin’s Nigerian boyfriend who’s left her high & dry with their children?
So um…yeah.
It takes all kinds.
Surprisingly, this is an issue with Black men in the UK. I know. That’s what I said.
So a female exodus ain’t the solution.
“this theory has weaker legs than Stephen Hawking”
Why is this SO funny to me?!
I felt hella guilty for laughing but it was funny.
cause it IS!!!!!!! I that oh noooooo (but still laughing)
*thought!
First of all LOL! What do you have against Stephen Hawking? lol
*puts on glasses* Now, let me be serious for a second.
So, my friend and I were talking about the breakdown of the black family home recently. I know, we are such debbie downers. She brought up an interesting point about welfare. She used the example of Richmond, VA (if y’all have been there…umm…its self-explanatory). Basically, people get more government aid separated than they do together, so there was less incentive for families to be married. In Richmond, VA there use to be a lot of black owned business and at some point it wasn’t so “ratchet” as people call it nowadays.
At a reading Nikki Giovanni gave a few months back she talked about how the Black man wasn’t always the villan we see in today’s culture. Yes, maybe to the White man, but in the Black community this was not the case. So, when did the “n*ggas ain’t sh*” epidemic start???
I think it was a combo of many factors, but I think my friend’s point about welfare is something to ponder over.
The welfare state (as we know it today) actually started with the Great Depression. Families with men in the homes (regardless of race) were excluded from assistance because it was thought those men could work. A woman would have to apply for food assistance or housing assistance by herself. So the split in the family as it relates to welfare goes back to that time period.
Sorry I didn’t include time periods, but I was referring to the years for the civil rights movement. And the depression (like the current recession) hits minorities harder than it does White families. There was another recession in the early 80s and the US was able to recover by making interest rates really high. In the long run this was a good thing for the economy, but unemployment was extremely high. Again, minorities are usually disproportionately affected by such changes.
I think this affects relationships because their is a shift in the view of the Black man. The Black man become a villan in the Black community and so Black women were the heros. I think this becomes a self-fulfilling prophecy in a way.
Please ignore my typos and sh*t.
Please ignore my typos and sh*t.
Mo-VSS made a good point with the history of the welfare state. What’s also overlooked was how the relocation of industry to suburbs unwelcome to Black folk along with the early rise of industrial automation knocked out a lot of those jobs brothers used for a come-up. When sisters in the 60s looked up, they had to choose between a brother in a precarious situation due to economic changes and a check from the state that was potentially worth MORE than dude.
And so it began.
I wonder… WWCS: What would Corey say?
*throws chair* (you know that always starts a fight)
Yeah…. at the Source awards.
I have a male perspective but the point of the moral code argument is not about what a man does when not held accountable because there was the one reason women are held accountable is physiology.
Aside from that the arguments lose direction.
My major point is this: we are both equally at fault. But with men dying at a higher rate the women should take notice and instead of helping them along, they should do what they claim is their strong point = loving.
Now a days women take on masculine traits then get surprised that they cause issues. I don’t blame them, men aren’t around because of death, jail, vacation of responsibilities.
Women must be hustlers to make ends meet.
though people try to teach us right but we persist with our ways. Our social conscious is nearly shattered but so is the world we live in. I don’t think blacks are so bad but that’d be in comparison to the world. I think black women do an amazing job. I think black men do an amazing job. But as a whole we are simply never going to not be fragmented until we erase the pain from our past, there will always be rebellion in our collectives. The resentment is too strong and still being perpetuated by the perpetrators of our pains. Ain’t just slavery, jim crow, malcolm or martin, the myths of black success targeted by white hate, the unjust resentment of blacks across the globe, the separation from africa, the sub human treatment, the innumerable injustices we have faced and the indignant comparisons we are saddled with. It is easy to hate yourself and every one who loves you when you don’t know how to cope with all of the horrible stuff you hear about yourself. It’s easy to be crushed before you learn to struggle through life.
I don’t blame the players but the game. But then I’m just pulling the “Black card” which is a earned right that was some how prohibited. Cannot win. Odds stacked against us. Wonderful beautiful survivors of all that we have over come. It all matters. I’ve said it before and I’ll say it again: “As a man think eth, he becomes; as the man sees the world so it will respond.”
Beautifully articulated. I agree with 95% of your argument.
You should see what I can do with keys and a seat instead of walking while on a touch screen. lol
I wonder, what parts do you disagree with? I’m always ready to learn. I’m curious…I’ll check to see if you have already covered it but please do share.
You say that we are both at fault but then say women should do what they “claim is their strong point= loving”. This makes it seem more like its a 60/40 problem rather than 50/50. Other than that I can agree with what you’re saying. So maybe I should say I agree with 98.5 % of your argument. lol.
For me, personally, it comes down to being in a different place in my life than the men my age. We want completely different things. C’est la vie.
Aha! If I may explain.
In my view it is 50/50. I’m not asking or suggesting that women should do more than men. I’m asking that women not react to a weakness in men. I ask the same of men but men seem to be led by their emotions & their lusts. Plus, I just become a hater and a target.
I only know how to talk to women. I struggle with talking to men because they seem so quick to want to challenge my manhood. To which, I respond in kind and before you know it – beef.
Basically, I don’t think women are better than men. I don’t think women are worse than men. I actually think men and women are more alike and need the same things to improve how they view each other. But equality in one way creates inequality in another way. For it to be a straight across fair exchange, then this view that women are the Queen of Sanity is a huge milestone for men to give up first. Especially since we look around and find ourselves underwhelmed with each other so often.
Perhaps. That you agree with me at all gives me both the inspiration to continue with my hopes and directions. But I agree with you 100% and I hope that is a simplest way of saying that I have faults and failures in my writing.
I wish I understood your winding missive. Can someone please translate?
Is it really that hard to understand?
What can I do better? Tell me, I really need to give it a good effort because too many people are telling me this.
And my bigger question is how can you follow the Champs article if you struggle with my response? Do I need more spaces? Were you paid to say this to me? Am I really so dumb as I cannot see what is making people struggle with reading my compositions? The opposite?
This is literally the most frustrating thing for me and I cannot comprehend what exactly the problem is. Some seem to have little problem, others seem to struggle endlessly.
I’m far from lacking intellectually, so somebody should be able to point me in a direction to alleviate me of this disease.
u good, just beyond some people. u write for an audience of above-intelligence level folks, an uncommon, but refreshing thing.
throw some “and sh!ts” in there and sweet sass will get it.
j/k
Honestly? Punctuation would help.
I’m not suggesting that you change your way of writing for the benefit of other people- hell, I love reading punctuation -less rants and stream of conscious writing. I’m also a fan of the non-linear… but if comprehension of the masses is your primary concern and you really are asking for advice… punctuate!
I started to copy, paste, and edit your entry here, and then I told my over-zealous azz to chill, lol.
One point per sentence. Make the object of the sentence concrete, rather than vague. Use direct verbs.
” What can I do better? Tell me, I really need to give it a good effort because too many people are telling me this.”
I would say finish one thought before you start another. Also when you introduce new (and even innovative) ideas that could be slightly vague, make sure to provide a quick example to make sure people are following before you jump to a new point. Also speaking in complete sentences as opposed to fragments will eliminate a lot of confusion. No shots fired btw
Lsq, chunk, justmetheguy,
I truly appreciate the feed back. I can understand what you all mean by the advice you give. I should have asked for help a while ago. It is a lazy tendency of mine to type based on my sense of rhythm. I will focus on being a more, academically structured composer of thought.
@wildcougar, maybe it is simply your tone or the brief nature of your words but I don’t like them. However, I asked for advice and gave no conditions. Thus, I appreciate your effort to share with me despite the tone.
I stay humbled that y’all cared enough to respond.
No tone intended, I was trying to be brief and straightforward, since you asked. Sorry if it offended. I just assumed you wanted the info straight no chaser.
This is hilarious. TIME STAMP. I ain’t even that smart either. Time Stamp foreal doe.
?
Sweet Sass, I have decided to create a synopsis for you.
I began by declaring the limitations of my positions on the topic at hand.
I then spoke to why I feel that women are singled out when the subject of culpability is discussed.
I then shared how a trait that women currently (as a group) tend to pride themselves on: love.
Next, I comiserate with(& commend them for) the struggles of Black women because they live on to make choices while Black men commit actions that leave the very same Black men without choices.
Then was my miniature rant about the systematic dissolving of the Black family after I took a moment to praise the steps forward I see in the Black community.
Finally, I ended with a quote that summarizes how I was able to overcome all of which I mentioned by separating myself from the tales of horror that focused on the folklore behind being Black.
Sweet Sass, I do hope this is much clearer for you. If it is not, then I apologize for failing you. Perhaps, there was nothing to be gained from my words anyways.
i didn’t even read this one sagey (b/c i got the first one), but ^^^ is what i was gonna suggest.
jhane sez writes kinda stream of consciousness but she puts a whole line of space in btw each new thought. maybe u shld try that if u wanna keep ur style but make it easier to understand. .
You’re actually funny to me. I’m not sure why but all I did was laugh while reading through your response.
Duly noted. I will take that into my considerations.
: )
It’s the men’s fault for being Sh8ty but it’s the woman’s fault for allowing those sh8ty men into their lives. 48% percent of the blame goes to the men but 52% goes to the women only because we are the gate keepers (of the vagina) and we have not been doing our jobs of keeping no good brothers from the jackpot. Too often do I see half as3ed men being treated like Kings by good women who don’t know any better? It’s not enough too just be a good women if you don’t have the sense to get rid of a no good man.
Men
While it’s easy to act like a jerk and still get play, it takes a real man too grow out of that phase and understand that while you have the power to run a mock in a inexperienced/blinded/ dickmotized woman’s life that sometimes you need to be the step up and show her how and man is suppose to act, and if you can’t do that take yourself out of the situation especially if she’s a good women. (In a dream world this would happen all the time)
This sentence, “It’s not enough to just be a good woman if you don’t have the sense to get rid of a no good man,” is EVERYTHING that women need to hear in order to correct our side of the struggle.
Thank you and good night. Case closed!
I’ve gotten rid of plenty of no good men. Still ain’t come across a good one yet.
Try something wildly different than anything you’ve done. When that fails try white and brown and whatever works with your sense of desire. I’d rather Black be with Black but get love where it best suits you. Me being selfish about your life makes ABSOLUTELY no sense.
Since there’s no way to win any Black men/Black women argument, I blame everything on White women. *files nails*
LMAO!!! You my dear are one of a kind.
DEAD
*TEARS*
*nods head in agreement while sipping tea* And the problem has been solved
BWAHAHAHAHAHA!!!!
*co-sign*
BWAHAHAHAHA!!!!!
I do too. Really can’t wrong that way.
Umhmm, I’ve had this conversation before.
It never ends.
You know, I find it kinda contradictory that “Jack” told “Jill” to get off her “moral” high horse, because men will do only what’s expected of them, only to turn around and put her and all Negro womankind in Secretarian’s saddle by delegating women as the gatekeepers of morality, since we got the vaj-jay-jays.
I usually can’t be bothered with these discussions because people get so caught up in verbal zingers, stats, “alpha” “beta” labels, and other non-productive digressions and convolutions. If I am to be honest, ( and you might be able to attribute my lucidity to this drank), has it ever occurred to anyone that sometimes women pick “ain’t shyt men” because they ” ain’t shyt”?
Then again how are we defining “ain’t shyt”? and “good guys”? From my experience and what I can safely assume is the experience of a lot of VSS’s and women collectively “ain’t shytness” and “good” is spread indiscriminately across socioeconomic and educational backgrounds.
So are we talking about dysfunction? If so that’s easy. I’ll be the first to tell you I have dated many a dysfunctional male. A smorgasbord of wrong. It wasn’t until recently I realized that I picked these guys, because I too am dysfunctional, and hence identified with a lot of their depravities and short comings. I made a lot of allowances, and excuses, because I wanted to see the “best” in them. Somehow, I wasn’t able to activate my Vagina Shield and use my superior uterine judgment abilities all the time, which I am apparently genetically equipped with. Making me impervious to human error. Remind me to download the updated manual’s PDF tomorrow. Yes unlike so many bewildered internet black men, every pick of mine wasn’t a winner. *Gasp*.
In case I didn’t make it clear, I think making the assertion that somehow women are to be the shepherds, wardens, and gatekeepers of the behavior of grown adult, free willed males, black males in particular simply because of our reproductive organs, is as ridiculous as a woman expecting a man to be more financially sound, settled and established than her simply because he is equipped with a paynus. But there I go again, making allowances and seeking sources for human flaws and conditions….damn my defective Uterine Deficiency detector.
I think it would serve us best if we stop vilifying each other. Black men are not inherently depraved, and black women are not inherently unbearable. If there is anything I can attest to it it’s being privy to a veritable UN of human depravity. From the Pakistani man who burned his wife in a cab infront of my school, to the affluent white woman in Newport who stated she “hates her children when they’re not medicated”, and my own afro American grandmother (don’t tell her that she thinks she’s Indian) who has the maternal instincts of a paper towel. I think our relationship and familial dysfunctions have been magnified and exacerbated by obvious socioeconomic disenfranchisement, and more importantly lack of tradition, culture and community.
My Indian co-worker once told me that in her community, if you go on a few dates and you are not able to make a connection, news spreads and both parties are chastised. The pairing of woman and man are a community effort, investment and concern. Black people don’t have that. With culture comes tradition, with tradition comes rules, with rules come standards and expectations. Both men and women are held accountable by their communities. Such practices are implemented by elder men and women and passed on from generation to generation..etc. It seems left to our own devices , a lot of us are led astray and our society and communities suffer.So to me the answer is not so much in “Who’s to blame” its how on earth can you create and implement a culture of community accountability and investment with a people who seem to be so disconnected? That is a much more daunting pregunta.
I love the overall sentiment of what you said but the bitterness in your words causes shrinkage to my heart(& perhaps my penus).
I agree with you 100%(aside from the tone).
Misty Knight, you pick the battlefield and I’m riding with you. I got Shotty. Leggo!
I object to the “Bitter” label. Snarky? Yep. Sarcasm? Yes Pleeze! Obnoxious? …yeah kinda
But I am not, nor have I ever been a bitter bitty Sir. I beg your pardon.
Mk, I’m riding with you but idc how you feel about the word I used to describe you. It is what I know. If Idk you, them what does it matter.
Bitter, snarky, obnoxious, sarcasm = the same sentiment. They all denote a dip in personal view of self based on others. Don’t believe me, fine but I did not make it up nor did I improvise the logic.
Sarcasm is always an attack on someone’s character, thus I refuse to use it.
Snarky just sounds like it is an attack command for german shepherds.
Why even be obnoxious? Unless, it is for a laugh.
Now yeah, it seems like I’m coming at you but I’m not. I really got a real respect for your vision but the sharper parts of your expression make it so we can’t be friendly. Yeah, just on the blog. I’m always trying to make every body softer. We are too hard on each other but we ain’t raising spartans. We live out here not on a finite battlefield of atrocity. Where am I? Me no know…dropping the mic to walk away slowly. Curse you cell phone!
Yeeahhh I’m kinda confused by alla dis ^^^^^^^ Sarcasm, snark, and obnoxiousness is as much part of the humor in my writing as that whole fluid string of consciousness esoteric thing is yours. However not once does it including attacking anyone’s character nor does it convey malice. Not IMO at least. Perhaps we just have two completely different sets of humor, mines being dry, yours being….yours. I’m not personally offended at you saying the tone was “bitter” as I am surprised that you came away with that conclusion in writing that I thought to be obviously dripping with 2 parts satire, and 4 parts exasperation.
See…I ain’t no authority on nothing. I just have opinions and I’ve read a few parts of a few books. Thas all.
You won’t let me dislike you though. I like that.
I guess I’m full of myself. H3ll, I’m working on it.
But I will go find that quote about sarcasm always diminishing somebody. That ish was poetry to my ears. Nobody likes it but we grow accustomed to it. I’ll just go find it. It is going to take me a while…I don’t remember where I read it. grrr
VSB love though.
Preach.
hold up, you understand her but not me and she and I said the same things?
*MAJOR SIDE EYE*
It was the form, not the content that I couldn’t get through. Your writing style is just hard for me to comprehend sometimes. It’s a little too abstract random sometimes and jumps from point A to C, skipping over B.
okay.
Abstract random.
okay.
Duly noted.
Yep, i just responded to your question about how to make it better… in a word: punctuation.
Her form is linear and academic- you know, 5 paragraph style and shyt.
Yours is not.
But, for me, content is king.
Neither is better than the other, simply different.
Not worried about the better than the other thing.
Just about the fact that Misty Knights and my message paralleled on some level but mine was apparently incoherent while hers(rife with emotion) was easier to comprehend.
I kept my word usage to a certain level. I kept my concept usage to a minimum. But was incomprehensible to her?
I felt like it was a subliminal thing. And that is why I wanted her to explain why mine was so much harder to understand. I wanted to rule out a certain perspective. That was all.
Thanks again.
Wow @ “rife with emotion” and the shade continues. LOL.
it ain’t shade darn it.
You saying there was no emotion because that is what I felt reading it.
Geez, I don’t mean it like that.
or are you joking? you know what….my intention is just to say a major difference was mine may have been a bit abstract for some but yours seemed buried in “FEEL IT” juices.
man, I’m just digging a hole. but chu know I luv ya doe.
Bitter=intelligent female calling me out on my bs. If I attribute what she says to irrational terminal emotion stemming from some past hurt, maybe people will discount it and forget about the bs that just got shot down.
WildCougar,
Although I can appreciate your talking points, bitterness is not simply an excuse. There is no doubt a very real emotional quality to her words. She spoke of personal experiences while quietly evoking emotions and sentiment with every concept.
Now, maybe I shouldn’t point this out to you but her responses to me are only half serious. She is only taking me half serious.
Should you really be this way about women being called bitter? Like you never learned anything from Blacks calling Whites racist. To call somebody something you immediately label yourself with that very same label. Where do you think reverse racism came from? But you keep jumping in that situation like you don’t see the damage it does. I’m truly pointing this out to you.
As far as Misty Knight…even if she don’t know, she do know. That’s what it is.
” So to me the answer is not so much in “Who’s to blame” its how on earth can you create and implement a culture of community accountability and investment with a people who seem to be so disconnected? That is a much more daunting pregunta.”
Exactly.
And I agree with Sage. I’m glad I didn’t stop reading after the snarky and obnoxious tone she started off with, because she actually made a damn good point after that. The part about the Indian friend was an eye-opener. I’m gonna bring this to the next discussion on this topic (because it gets re-hashed twice a month). Thanks for sharing Misty Knight. I’ll be sure to pause and pay attention when you comment from now on. (no sarcasm)
I’m glad I didn’t stop reading after the snarky and obnoxious tone she started off with,
Wait, aren’t I Always snarky, and obnoxious? It’s like……like y’all don’t even know me.
Aw…I know you (sort of) and love you (sometimes).
I knew my Sister-In-Snark would understand.
and dudes can use the words “chick logic” and such all day every day, but they get all up in their feelins if a woman gets snarky. Start throwin bitter around like its shea butter and errbody’s ashy.
Dead w/ the shea butter and ashyness. Yeah I’m a bit taken aback by all the clutching of the pearls of my “tone”, When several blog posts, and the post and debate itself was ripe with snark, and sarcasm yet had not been labled “Bitter” or made paynuses into mush.
“Then again how are we defining “ain’t shyt”? and “good guys”? From my experience and what I can safely assume is the experience of a lot of VSS’s and women collectively “ain’t shytness” and “good” is spread indiscriminately across socioeconomic and educational backgrounds.”
the whole comment is awesome!
perhaps by defining the opposite of “ain’t shytness” we could figga out some things. I mean what _is_ “functional” and is it just relative?
Truth. It’s when you as a person realize the ain’t shytness of the people around you is because of you that you begin to grow. I’ve had to go through different levels of this throughout my life, and I think it’ll continue until I die. The good news is that the women are improving on each level.
All this….
Hmmmm…
*thumps a Bible* Amen to alladis.
I know it was satire… and it was supposed to funny….and I hate being that person…. but I find this conversation (not this specific one, but the general blame game convo) so severely off-putting I won’t be able to play today.
Why? Because it never changes anything. The offenders will continue to do what they like. The “enlightened” will continue to self righteously look down at their brethren while complaining that none of this applies to them. (I know. I belong to the latter). And nobody will alter their behavior.
Instead, folks will just get defensive. People who don’t have jobs will sit around all day on blogs commenting about the stupidity and general ineptness of women. I will ponder how I can quit humanity.
Naw, I’ll just catch ya’ll Thurs. XOXO
Why are you mad?
If you are above it and it doesn’t apply to you, then perhaps but why tell us that we aren’t good enough to discuss this serious topic plaguing our community?
Are you taking subliminal shots at a particular person OR are you telling the men of VSB that we simply aren’t worth debating on this particular topic?
Because I’m pretty sure we either are or aren’t the people you just detailed in your response. If we aren’t who you detailed, then why won’t you discuss with us. (Not that you ever responded to me anyways…smh). lol
Whoa, I don’t think that’s where Andi was going. While there have been a few gems dropped in this conversation (some of them from you), the vast majority of comments are generalizations and tired rhetoric. I don’t think Andi is saying she is “above” this conversation, she’s just over it because it’s redundant, and ultimately futile.
TrackStar that is exactly what I’m saying. Please and thank you.
I’ll oblige Sagey
“why tell us that we aren’t good enough to discuss this serious topic plaguing our community?”
Please point out to me where in my comment I implied that. I apparently missed it.
I was not addressing VSBs in general, but there are 1 or 3 people here who use days like today to profess their misogynistic views and I’m not interested in the emotional fatigue. i.e. miss me with that sh!t.
I won’t discuss it because it is an exercise in futility. The people who “do right” will continue to. The people who make stupid choices and refuse to account for them will continue to do so. And until I develop psychic mind control powers ala Professor X, it really isn’t my concern.
Trackstar….uh, but that’s exactly what I mean. This ain’t futile.
Andi,
I must apologize for apparently being too critical of you. Though, I will say that if I had no respect for your intellect, I wouldn’t have bothered.
And that is my issue: you feel it is pointless. You must know how people work in order to know what is futile with them. IDK what his tagline is on VSB but while on twitter tag name Wisdomismisery linked is followers to an article that briefly over viewed how we, human beings, processed information that is different than what we know. It described that we seek to reinforce our most primary information sources and that we fought against all other sources.
The overall point was that being predicated by our initial beliefs, we limit ourselves. But the people that don’t want to stay stuck, no matter how hopeless they appear will always argue their point as a way to get over themselves. Not as a rebuttal to you but to better inform you of where they are so that you can better inform them how to overcome themselves. Yes, it is complicated. Yes, it is annoying but it is not futile.
Far from it. People need love and understanding and patience. If you have none to give, then I’m cool with everything you say as long as you don’t spread the message of futility. Because none of this is futile. If you can change one person with your hope; with your words of wisdom, then is it not all worth it. You may have just touched a very important soul or just one of the many inspirations to a person who is an inspiration to others.
You never know, never give up.
Of course, like I said, if you just can’t, then you can’t be faulted…live your life. But if you have the heart to help, why give up before you get started.
I don’t mean to sound so callous. It is actually my predisposition to care too much for others. To worry, and ask, and council, and pray. But after some recent events, it’s become apparent that selfishness is the only way to survive. I’ve just kind of numbed over to other people’s problems. Maybe one day I’ll have the energy to care again, but not today.
Then I, again, apologize for coming at you like that.
I should never have tried to tell you how to do you.
@ Sagey Bear
Just for clarification, I don’t believe the conversation itself is futile. Just the rhetoric that follows. Like I said before, I believe there are only a handful of comments that offer information that is IMO, useful. The rest of the comments are just hyper-defensive or inflammatory (again, IMO and specifically on topics like this). I do acknowledge that having a variety of opinions on the topic does allow you to view things in ways that you normally would not have, and that is great thing. I just wish I didn’t have to sift through so much of the bad to get to the good. Maybe using unproductive rather than futile would have been better.
I understood you.
I was a bit trigger happy at reading futile. But the sentiment was not lost on me.
I imagine the more pertinent perspective is that without rhetoric (which is like the superlatives of stereotyping) we lose a bit of the general problems because we cannot fix an individual’s problems like this.
In essence, the rhetoric is the purpose of this conversation.
I’m glad you found anything that you can take and think on further but not a single tile is out of place but you still got to learn how to put it together properly. Rubks Cube.
I understand, really.
I think you make the same point others have: “ok, now what?”
i feel you andi. i feel you.
whether it’s seriously, sarcastically or humorously – the convo/content/reactions are always the same…where is it getting us?
the ho*s still stay winning and the good folk still left to ponder which hail mary pass to lob up next.
*shares bday cake with ya.
Happy Birthday KB!!!!!
Sorry I walked out before wishing you a wonderful day
May it be as fantastic as you are.
As long as Black folks continue to love listening to themselves talk, it will get us no where. I personally have lost the ability to care about things I have no control over. When I go to glory, I will only be asked about my decision making. Not Sheniqua’s. Not Ray Ray’s. Not James’s. Not Ashely’s. Mine.
Happy Birthday KB!
thanks Andi + WuWuWu!
Nothing ever changes because people are waiting for everyone else to do the work of “change”. That’s not just relationships, that’s health care, the economy, poverty, drug issues, corruption, teen age pregnancy. Basically you name the issue and I’ll show you a billion people waiting for 999,999,999 other people to fix it.
So you’re right it will never change. Even the observation that things will never change, will have no effect on things. We either all do the work or we don’t. And right now we don’t. Talking about it doesn’t make it any better or worse.
@ blizzard (DQ)
i disagree. the talking about it is making it worse. has all these blogs made anything easier? no. it’s making us more defensive, bitter, jaded and angry.
again since the talking is only about the problem and never about how to fix it.
ie: your country’s recent debt ceiling issue.
@ Toy Store (KB)
Talk is just that… talk. Just as the debate over the debt ceiling didn’t put us any less or any more in debt, talking about these relationship issues don’t make them any better or any worse.
Whether we shift from talking about what the problem is to how to solve it, as long as we are only just talking about it, nothing changes, nothing gets better, nothing gets worse.
I actually agree with KB here DQ, especially on this point:
“has all these blogs made anything easier? no. it’s making us more defensive, bitter, jaded and angry. ”
With all of the exposure (media, blog, and otherwise) the conversation has become more toxic and strained than ever.
As a people, I don’t think we want to solve it. Since we were brought to this country, we have identified ourselves by our misfortune. Who are we with out it?
I refuse to fret any more about what other Black people do. And I wash my hands of this blame game nonsense.
****I actually agree with KB here ****
Hmmm… then I shall mark this day, as the day that both KB and Andi were wrong.
Seriously I guess we’re just using different frameworks. I’d argue the toxicity has always been there, we’ve just become accustomed to ignoring it whereas talking about it forces us to acknowledge the ugliness and acerbity that exists. Our words are merely a reflection of our thoughts and attitudes; if our words are filled with bile, it’s because our thoughts and beliefs were corrupted first. So in essence what you see as fire, I see as smoke. What we talk about and how we talk about it is an indicator of where we are, it is not the problem itself (just like smoke is an indication of fire, but not the fire itself).
In addition, one might infer from your statements that we could make things better by NOT talking about it, and I don’t see this as true. Or that merely by talking about solutions to the problems, instead of the problems themselves, we actually mitigate the problems… and this also is not necessarily true. “Doing” is what causes change. Not talk, not theory, not hypothesis… but doing something.
My primary argument is this, “talking” won’t make anyone “do” anything. And while I agree with KB about the negative effects of talking (the fire vs smoke argument is semantics to me), I think the principle result of all this talk is a complete absence of any positive action.
How are we supposed to make other people do anything? Answer: we can’t.
Even though folks may be in their feelings, talking all kinds of reckless ish while they are here in the blogosphere, smart folks think and reflect on things once they log off. They run things by their real life friends and loved ones to get their take on a situation. Trusted friends and loved ones may be able to drop a nugget of wisdom or hold a mirror up in front of them so that they can see themselves and initiate some personal change, moreso than a stranger on a blog might be able to. So talk may be cheap unto itself, but when it results in reflection and thoughtful decision making, it truly is everything.
Your faith in (Black) mankind never ceases to amaze me NY2VA.
AMEN.
” Even though folks may be in their feelings, talking all kinds of reckless ish while they are here in the blogosphere, smart folks think and reflect on things once they log off. They run things by their real life friends and loved ones to get their take on a situation. Trusted friends and loved ones may be able to drop a nugget of wisdom or hold a mirror up in front of them so that they can see themselves and initiate some personal change, moreso than a stranger on a blog might be able to. So talk may be cheap unto itself, but when it results in reflection and thoughtful decision making, it truly is everything.”
Now this I co-sign. Ppl have too much pride to admit when their adversary has made a great point in the heat of the moment, but later on they really do give it some thought and ask someone else (usually hoping the person will confirm their original beliefs but it often does not happen that way). Only the intelligent ones do this though (a distinction NY2VA made also)
**** I think the principle result of all this talk is a complete absence of any positive action.****
And see I think the principle result of all this talk is that it reveals that positive activity was and is lacking. Different frameworks different conclusions.
The thing I have with this you get blamed because you have the ‘choice’ thing is that, as the woman, you will *ALWAYS LOSE*.
If you date the guy who has not ‘made it’ yet, and then he subsequently never makes it… it’s your fault.
If you reject guy who ‘has not made it’, and end up single, it’s your fault.
( Let’s be real, most guys with this ‘potential’ are not going to make it. Most of them. K. Rags to riches just doesn’t happen very often. )
If you reject guy who has not made it and go with ‘made it’ dude who happens also to have no morals… it’s your fault.
Ahem, THIS WHOLE LINE OF ARGUMENTATION IS BULLSHIT.
You cannot control the actions of others with your p*ssy.
It just doesn’t work that way.
If we spent half as much time chiding women for being unlucky (yes, unlucky is the word) and used that on helping/demanding bad men stop being bad…. we’d have some actual SOLUTIONS.
If your choice in life is A.) Kid with iffy guy or B.) No kid. You don’t have a meaningful choice. And blaming you for the outcome ain’t going to ‘solve’ shit.
Please repeat that about ten more times.
” and used that on helping/demanding bad men stop being bad”
Oh, that’s the goal? K, good luck with that…
Yes, that is the goal. Get them while they are young….
After school programs.
Keepin’ ‘em off the streets.
Teaching/mentoring/whatever…
Prevention of a$$holishness is much easier than trying to rummage through the wreckage later.
but in the end…it’s your choice, no?
out of 3 billion or so males on the planet…
out of 109 million American males over the age of 20 *Census 2010*…
you don’t think there’s ONE that has what *you* in general, desire?
oh, ok.
i already know that my lack of luck with the womens is my fault, i don’t have enough money/power/yadda yadda..at least i own that, and work on it…
but as long as the only place a child will come forth is the woman’s womb, the onus/responsibility will rest on *your* (in general) shoulders to choose wisely. i can keep my nose on the grindstone and my ***k in my pants, but you choose to get with a neer-do-well, it’s the mean ol’ guys fault, right?
i’m just sayinnnnnnnng.
Ok, yes, there are 3 bil on the planet. But I will not meet most of them. I will only meet those I come across within my own sliver of the world. That is 1.) school (been there twice) 2.) work 3.) out and about 4.) online (?) 5.) doing hobbies.
Let’s start with school. I just graduated from law school… the blk man/woman break down was 5/40. No lie.
1 of those dudes was married and older. 1 of those dudes was gay. The 3 left had no intentions of meeting ‘the one’ anytime soon because they saw a law degree as something that would take them from geek to chic and they would magically get a truckload of Ester Baxters fiendin’ for them.
Work. Mostly 2520s. Also, don’t sh*t where you eat.
Out and about. I live in a mostly 2520 area.
Online. Lemme give you a representative message I received today:
“wow your gorgeous well im on here to meet a girl to date or make a new friend but if i wasnt a gentlemen id totally wanna fuck you lol thats just how seriously attractive i think you are btw my names sam it would be rude of me to say all of that and not give you my name whats yours btw read your profile you seem sweet and cool we should talk but you can ignore the first part if it bothered you it was meant as a joke but u do look good”
Ahem, no.
Hobbies. I do martial arts and volunteer on progressive causes. Martial arts class – all married military white men and really butch lesbians. Volunteer, all do-gooder white ladies and old people.
….But….
If I go clubbin’ in Maryland… well, no one should ever do that.
ok, you win. men ain’t isht.
what next?
um……CHANGE………BEHAVIOR. Seemingly simple concept
” “wow your gorgeous well im on here to meet a girl to date or make a new friend but if i wasnt a gentlemen id totally wanna fuck you lol thats just how seriously attractive i think you are btw my names sam it would be rude of me to say all of that and not give you my name whats yours btw read your profile you seem sweet and cool we should talk but you can ignore the first part if it bothered you it was meant as a joke but u do look good””
bwahahahaha!!!!
That is all, carry on
“Also, do you realize that you’re trying to convince me that a man’s truest instinct is to run away from responsibilities they created? You do realize that, right? You’re basically trying to get me to believe that an unpoliced black man will do something that no other animal in the entire f*cking kingdom does? Do you really want to “win” that argument and convince me that even roaches have more of a moral foundation that black men?”
pretty sure monogamy is not a normal concept in the animal kingdom…
but interesting back and forth. like i said, this is pretty much the argument on facebook, twitter, *name your favorite/2nd favorite blog*…
the question is where do we go from here? i asked myself that question, and came up with my own answer…but how long will we accuuse black women of being irresponsible and bitter? how long will we accuuse black men of being the bad guy or being bitter that they weren’t the first choice? when the thing is, both men and women want love and this is just pushing both sides away from that?
oh and jack won.
*Le Sigh* Jack definitely won…
” pretty sure monogamy is not a normal concept in the animal kingdom…”
That’s what I was saying! U DO NOT want to use animals as a guide for obvious reasons, but if you’re female you DEFINITELY don’t want the standards animals use. Neither men nor women want that, but especially not women.
And yeah, Jack won, but the black community lost
I just want to say I acknowledge that there are many good Black men, and women.
I don’t believe the meme that most of us are trifling.
I’m seeing today’s Black men being involved in their children’s lives, co-parenting, stepping over landmines just so they can see their children and tell them “i love you”. We love hard, live hard, fight hard., work hard for ourselves and our families.
I think that in 2011, the Black and trifling just get more media P.R. (reality shows, gossip blogs, Youtube hits, oh my!)
+1
As I sit back, I see many parallels in the media that we should take heed of.
In the late 80′s early 90′s black T&A replaced white T&A on MTV; we were just happy to see more black faces on MTV.
Shows with strong & positive black male / female relationships get snubbed by the big three similar to in the 70′s when the best we could do was be ghetto fab; one of the best things that came out of Cosby’s A Different World is that enrollment at HBCU’s increased significantly.
If we want to show our tails, there’s someone willing to pilot the program, provide the record deal etc.
Honestly, Jack sounds like a lil biatch. Quit cryin, n*gga!
Lol seriously, though, who started this whole “women are responsible for the demise of the whole world” thing? I’m noticing that this trend of vilifying women is starting to pick up, and it’s got to stop. It’s so counterproductive. You’d think that anyone with half a brain can see that this thing is a two-way street; if a woman gets played, yes she is guilty of choosing unwisely, but she did not MAKE that man treat her wrong. He did that all by himself. And don’t get it twisted, it’s not just the obvious ones who F up; if I had a dollar for every time a sister, cousin, girlfriend of mine was played by a “good” guy- church boys, nerds, guys from good families, responsible guys with good jobs, etc.- I could finally fix my hoopty. So if “Jack” wants to continue to blame women for the fact that “good” guys like him aren’t getting any, then he can go right ahead. But I hope he wakes up one day and realizes that all this energy he’s putting into this blame game will serve a better purpose if it is directed toward improving himself and his own life. For every silly chick who’s dumb/insecure enough to stay caught up with an ain’t sh!t guy, there’s a VSS who is looking for a truly good man.
@Around the Way Girl
I get annoyed when VSSs or any other BW say they are looking for a good man… When I see good men being honored for being good men, I will buy that…
Based on most woman’s actions
- Most Women are not looking for a good man… This needs to not to be overstated
- Most Women are the one avoiding commitment… & then expect men to be committed when she is ready… (out of her dating prime… not as young, hot & tight)
- Most Women are not truly interested in a long lasting marriage, otherwise she would keep her body count low (helps with fidelity…)
- Most Women will deal with a whirlwind unstable romance until kids & unfortunate events happen, and then her strategies change… It is not that she wanted a beta male… She just needs him to be a paycheck now…
Also, most women can tell the difference between attractive & unattractive men, otherwise the amount of kids coming from alphas & betas would be leveled…
- Most Women do not want to close their legs as a collective, and want to reserve the right to sleep with whomever she is attracted to… & play the victim to keep the heat off of her poor choices…
But besides all that, what do you want me, or any dude like me, so say to the irresponsible alpha men who keep knocking up the neighborhood… That is what I’d like to know…
SSTTE
why should women be committed to settling down in her 20′s when her counterparts aren’t? who should she be settling down with? shouldn’t she be getting to know herself as a sexual creature and whole person before doing that?
matta fact.. let me stop. cuz im not trying to have high blood pressha on my bday.
you know since im no longer young, hot & tight….
what’s so bad about settling down? you can’t be a child forever.
if you haven’t learned it by your twenties, well… you need try harder.
” what’s so bad about settling down? you can’t be a child forever.
if you haven’t learned it by your twenties, well… you need try harder.”
Exactly. Especially when women complain WAY MORE about not being able to find a suitable mate to settle down with (Men usually find what/who they’re looking for as far as marriage goes). Then so many of em are like “Why I gotta settle down while men still want my *ss, can’t I just be a sexual creature?” Then when they pass their prime they wanna throw a fit about nobody wanting to settle down with them. It’s a real head scratcher to me. I promise I’m not trying to bash women or blame it on them, but just be real about it. You don’t have the same choices or the breadth of options that men have. You can’t force the window of opportunity to expand, all we’re saying is plan and act accordingly. The same thing goes for men. Don’t expect logical/coherent decisions from women on who to mate with and who’s attractive. Don’t expect fairness from Uncle Same. Don’t feel entitled to the most ideal women, go for the one with the best character to match her physical beauty and when you find one who is clearly qualified, choose her, don’t waver, don’t get to 2nd guessing your choice (unless she gives you very good reason to do so) and don’t wonder about what greener grass is on the other side. Life is only just beginning after you settle down (contrary to popular male belief). And the onus is also on us (men) to choose wisely. Yes women can do a lot better, but we can too….Oh yeah, and one more thing for the fellas…WEAR CONDOMS! Damn how good it feels. If you don’t mind AIDS that’s one thing, but what about the person you could potentially bring into this cruel, cold world just because y’all were in the heat of the moment and didn’t wanna kill the mood? End rant…..NOW
Did I really just say Uncle Same instead of Sam? Smh lol
This. Yes.
ok. so…
since im clearly ignorant..how many men in their twenties were/are ready/willing/able to settle down at that age? you aren’t encouraged to do so.. so… whom are these young women supposed to be getting married to?
I got both sides of the argument and I agree. Who in their 20′s was really getting wifed up by dudes in their age range? Some folks I now got married in their mid 20′s but most of them got married more like late 20′s early 30′s.
Settling down is nice but no young woman wants to be saddled to a dude who’s done playing the field. Just like men don’t want reformed hos as the consolation prize, neither do we.
“Settling down is nice but no young woman wants to be saddled to a dude who’s done playing the field.”
wait… what? ok, please explain, maybe I am reading that wrong.
No young woman in her 20′s wants the dudes who are 35-45 who have decided to take “their talents off the market” after a long and lusterous career of smanging as many women as he could handle. Those are hos…and while men are always thought to be the only ones who don’t want to turn a ho into a housewife, neither do women want the “reformed ho” as a husband. So, if women are supposed to settle in their 20′s as Adonis asserts (which I don’t agree or disgree with…just making a case for why it may not be as simple as point, click, ring, marriage) and the men in the same age group are out doing God knows what w/God know who, then theoritically what’s left is the older men who are ready…but may be damaged goods. (aka hos)
Gotcha,
If a same-age-as-you virgin male stepped to you, wouldn’t that be hard to accept? I am just sayin, not all 35-40 yr old single men were ho-ing around.
I think at some point I stopped caring about a girls ‘body count’. I would much rather have a sexually free woman, than a prude ( chex in public places, etc is fun and awesome ). It’s really all about character, her ability to nuture that is paramount, and while ‘body count’ might be a indicator of past performance, it’s not indicative of the future.
Does body count concern u in the way that Adonis referred to It ? – and what is too high?
@LSQ
Body count matters because in general
“Sluts Make Bad Wives” & you should be at least concerned
(aka RUN!!!)when a woman has had alot of different partners…This is back up by studied & science… So when men talk about why they dont waife up certain women… It is in their best interests to do so…
@LSQ
Body count matters because in general
“Sluts Make Bad Wives” & you should be at least concerned
(aka RUN!!!)when a woman has had alot of different partners… And of course you run the risk of raising a child that is not yours…This is back up by studied & science… So when men talk about why they dont waife up certain women… It is in their best interests to do so…
@LSQ
Why Sl*ts Make Bad Wives
Alpha males are already getting what they want…
I just want to make sure less unsuspecting men don’t get tajen
@Mo-VSS…
First of all, there is no such thing as a male reformed ho… Men don’t choose celibacy to figure themselves out & ish… Men are better built to have 1,000 than women are…
I will concede that, that type of dude probably wont be faithful in a matrimony (Deal with it… The price of getting with an alpha)
And I know you love to be the exception… But most women love s.exual experience in a man…
If you are so against “settling” down, and you cannot find your match… Then go your own way….
But it gets old when these women on the north of 30 complain about how they cannot find a decent guy to settle down with… And in their twenties, they had multiple guys willing to make the leap with them (of course, these guys weren’t on her level…)
@adonis,
that study on sluts not making good wives was garbage.
sexual boredom is not the cause of a marriage breaking up.
its the fact that someone got married for baseless reasons (sexual excitement perhaps). The blogger who posted the story stated that sluts get sexually bored, and that’s why they left.
bottom line: Shallow people get married for shallow reasons. some of those shallow people get divorced for shallow reasons, OR they realize they got married for shallow reasons, and then get divorced. slutiness be damned -> Ain’t nothing wrong about chex, we need to stop demonizing chex and the people that have chex. if it weren’t for chex we wouldn’t be here. long live chex.
I do agree with some of your lines of thinking, you just need to dig deeper, IMHO, as to why young folks make the decisions that they do.
@LSQ
Whatever helps you sleep at night dear…
I agree, s*x is good… And I am not deny sl*ts their s*x…
I just won’t marry her, & take that risk…
#TeamPumpAndDump…
#TeamMarryVirgins
@Mo-VSS
First of all, there is no such thing as a male reformed ho… Men don’t choose celibacy to figure themselves out & ish… Men are better built to have 1,000 than women are…
I will concede that, that type of dude probably wont be faithful in a matrimony (Deal with it… The price of getting with an alpha)
And I know you love to be the exception… But most women love s.exual experience in a man…
If you are so against “settling” down, and you cannot find your match… Then go your own way….
But it gets old when these women on the north of 30 complain about how they cannot find a decent guy to settle down with… And in their twenties, they had multiple guys willing to make the leap with them (of course, these guys weren’t on her level…)
Dude, clearly you use a large brush to paint a picture that’s not everyone’s experience. Cuz while some women in their 20′s had dudes beating down their doors for marriage, not all did.
@Mo-VSS
I will argue that 80% of black women, from a looks perspective, (add overweight young women can get in shape in six months) look like marriage material in her 20s…
Do you agree or disagree with this sentiment… Is the percentage lower or higher, in your opinion…
My low number is 50% & my high number is 90%
Finding a black man to marry is a very easy endeavor…
But getting Idris Elba (or a Chris Brown, Boris Kodjoe) to marry you is playing lotto… And that is what alot black women are hoping for in their 20s…
The most committed of men happen to be beta…And women are not attracted to beta men in their 20s (when they need resources & stability beta men are the wave…)
*since im clearly ignorant..how many men in their twenties were/are ready/willing/able to settle down at that age?*
*Raises hand*
but i’mma 3, so…i’mma wait til i’m 40. lols.
I think her point is that most men aren’t ready to settle down in their 20′s. Hence the question “who would she be settling down with”
But my question is…if we (women) aren’t looking to settle down with “good” men and we just wanna whore around and raise babies alone, why are we having this discussion???
“But my question is…if we (women) aren’t looking to settle down with “good” men and we just wanna whore around and raise babies alone, why are we having this discussion???”
I think you answered your own question, we men don’t want you to “whore around and raise babies alone”, thus the discussion. Yes, I have met women who want (and have done) just that.
@Keisha Brown
matta fact.. let me stop. cuz im not trying to have high blood pressha on my bday.
you know since im no longer young, hot & tight….
Happy Birthday love… & I will still tap that upon your permission…
@Keisha Brown
matta fact.. let me stop. cuz im not trying to have high blood pressha on my bday.
you know since im no longer young, hot & tight….
Happy Birthday love… & I will still tap that upon your permission…
Adonis, I’d really like to know how old you are and where you come from. Your comments are soooooo bitter. I wish you’d lighten up and open your eyes; there are some great black women out there who do, in fact, want to be in committed relationships with real men who will do what real men do (if there’s confusion about what I mean by this, go back to that Man Up post and read my comment). I know many such women, and many of them have been played by “alphas” and “betas” alike. We’re all just trying to find that person who we have chemistry and compatibility with. It’s hard for both men and women. Good women get passed up for crazy Lauren London dopplegangers all the time, just like good men get overlooked by the Idris Elbas of the world. If every black woman you pursue or deal with has the mentality just described, that actually says more to me about YOU and YOUR taste. This is starting to look like a pot/kettle situation.
As for what to say to the “alphas” who are knocking everybody up, just tell them to wrap it up and keep it moving. They aren’t your problem. There are too many people in the world for you guys to be sitting around salty that Raheem & them are getting “all” the girls. It’s just not true. And if your experience convinces you without a doubt that it is true, just go find you a Becky and get it crackin. Then you won’t have any problems ever again in life.
Why do you keep making these comments talking about “most” men this and “most” men that? You might consider qualifying your comments with “most men I know” or “most women I know.” You have described yourself as a socially awkward introvert, and there is nothing wrong with that. Socially awkward is the new cool. My thinking, however is that from what you have described, you have not had enough experience to know what most men or women think. You are killing yourself with absolutes, Adonis. This life shyt occurs along a spectrum. Try to experience some of the in between.
A man’s character is worth more than his good job, attending church, coming from a good family, being responsible et cetera. Character is important. It cannot be determined by how good of an employee he is or how devoted he is to going to church or whether his family is a “good” family.
Character means something–it separates the sociopaths from the men who actually loves and cares for the women he dates–it indicates whether he is going steal, lie or kill, whether he thinks its okay for a man to put his hands on a woman–whether he has impulse control and doesn’t fly off the handle and destroy everything in your happy home together. It indicates whether he will protect the children you have together or hurt those children’s body, mind and spirit. Character even shows how he acts as a human being and how he treats people, and even the type of secrets that he has. Certain secrets can endanger families, relationships or even the woman he sleeps with casually. Character means more than the outside stuff–how good his life “looks” isn’t immunity against his being trifling.
For every time a woman is mistreated by a man, there is a whole history of his having done the same thing to another woman before her. He didn’t become that way the moment he dated her. She has to chose wisely because she’s the gatekeeper to whether she brings children in the world and to whom she will be forever connected to the man she choses, should they become parents.
Trifling men don’t neccessarily think they need to improve their life or themselves. But a real man always reflects on whether his life is as he aspired for it to be.
chose = choose
This is all wonderful. Truly wonderful.
Yes, but character is not something worn on the sleeve.
It takes time to suss out someone’s true character. And the only way to find out if someone who has a bad character (but hasn’t been caught yet) is to be the first victim. There is always a first victim.
You cannot always believe what other people say to you. If your male friend is waiting in line to sleep with you, he won’t tell you that a stand up guy is good for you, he will slander the dude.
In essence, this post suggests that there is little or no empathy between the 2 groups. Like someone posted upthread, Jack & Jill weren’t really having a conversation with each other, they were just talking at each other and quoting just enough pseudo facts and insults to get their punches in. Sometimes, when you’re hurt your instinct is to hurt the other person as badly as they hurt you. Seems like a lot of that was going on in Jack & Jill’s talk. I think this translates to real life as well.
I don’t like these ‘dog chasing its tail’ types of discussions. Nothing much ever comes from them. If we stop and feel a little more empathy for each other, maybe we can actually make some progress??
I agree with Crystal Marie upthread….at least these conversations are happening. #Progress
Sidenote….Today is my birthday!
Happy Birthday Realest Leo!
Happy Birthday, TRL!!!!! I got a present for you…..
I bet you do. LOL
@TRL- Happy Birthday man. Not sure how much progress is being made, but I hope you’re right. We’ve been having this same discussion, making these same points for years as far as I know…I’ve almost given up, because I know what women will say, and they know what I’ll say. I’m just trying to find one that’s not ugly, dense, bitter, or attracted to f*ckery cloaked as alpha-ness. That’s the only solution I have for myself.
wait – we have the same bday???
who knew???
lol.
happy bday TRL!
Today is your birthday, too? Happy Birthday!
Happy birthday.
Happy Birthday TRL
Happy Birfday, TRL! *flings lady-shaped confetti* #TeamLeo
Happy birfday TRL!!!
Happy birthday!
Happy Birthday TRL!
Happy Birthday TRL! : )
The big chop is revealed!!! Lookin’ fab, CNotes!
Thanks Cheekie! I’m officially au naturale and loving it. : )
Congrats, chick! Glad you’re enjoying it! *flings afro-confetti*
Thanks for the birthday wishes, y’all.
If I didn’t still have to get up at 5:30 tomorrow morning, I’d be stone-cold (no Steve Austin) wasted right about now. lol
You know what, we should just blame white people. They have a history of messing up things, and making life suck for PoC. Yep, blame the white man…
Ok, in all seriousness, the constant blame game is the problem. Everyone wants to be right, at any cost. Who cares? This dialogue would be better served if people began with “I”. ” I’m guilty of doing this to men/women, and I need to take responsibility for this.” We can’t have an honest conversation that begins with blaming the other party. We all need to look inward, deal with our own crap first. And then work together to, maybe, possibly, help each other heal so we can move forward as community.
“You know what, we should just blame white people. They have a history of messing up things, and making life suck for PoC. Yep, blame the white man”
You make a valid point when used from the prospective of marketing.
The marketing machine has influenced our decision making. White collar jobs / dudes are glamorized because of all the trappings that come with it (cars, houses, sharp suits / dresses, access to exclusive clubs, entitlement, etc.) We’ve adopted the same policy. When’s the last time you saw a TV show featuring white blue collar families where blue collar was hyped as the new sexy? Now add in dating.
Women / Men always seek to do better. Better=white collar. I can’t mess with Joe / Jane Blue collar; she / he is too common, ghetto, backward, nice, plain etc. Many folks get passed over, knocked up, strung out, turned out, spurned, etc.
If we aren’t happy with the relationships and interactions we choose then we must aim our own finger at ourselves, problem-solve and make choices that align with engaging with the people we want to interact with.
Something’s wrong if a woman can’t spot a man who ain’t shit when many men can spot a woman who ain’t shit. I think men show who their character by what they say when they meet you & their actions.
It takes ovaries for a woman to admit post-date or breakup that this man she’s complaining about to her girls as trifling did show his trife in the beginning before she decided to give away her heart and/or body and/or time to him.
Women like being desired — and that’s the time when some of us throw our own selves off track in looking at that man clearly. Can we take a compliment from a man who looks good sounds good has a good job, comes from a good family without hoping or thinking about whether that means he is future boyfriend or future spouse?
Very valid points and I want to piggy back on a few.
Women / men sometimes can’t see the forest from the trees because the trappings until it’s too late. We sometimes are more attracted to the affection, status, etc. and that clouds our minds that they are not worth our time. I’ve seen dudes upset with ol girl because she won’t work and got a degree when he found out her only reason for attending school was to be desirable (on paper) to a mate. Or woman who complain about a man but can’t let him go because he meets most of the items on her list.
“Can we take a compliment from a man who looks good sounds good has a good job, comes from a good family without hoping or thinking about whether that means he is future boyfriend or future spouse?” – No. Women have been conditioned since childhood to be this way. You put your name and his together and play the game how compatable you are. Other women put pressure on you to find that man. Magazines provide you with countless test & quizzes about how to find your mate. Disney built a franchise around Prince Charming and let’s not talk about TV!
Ok. I see where I missed the boat. Women are supposed to b perfectly able to see into a person and know what they will do in the future, because no one ever changes for the worse. Ain’t shyt ninjas come out of the womb waving red flags that everyone with any sense can see. And if you are a woman who is flawed or naive, or want to give someone a little trust, love and hope, you deserve to be treated badly.
Let’s not skew the discussion to solely look at women. When the “magic” comes off of an individual (MEN INCLUDED!), the question we must ask ourselves is was this person I see now always in front of me? Was I blinded by the affection, great sex, upward social & financial mobility, stability that when I remove these things from the person I can’t stand the core make-up?
And if you are a woman who is flawed or naive, or want to give someone a little trust, love and hope, you deserve to be treated badly.
Men have fallen victim to this as well. BBD told brothas don’t trust a big but and a smile. Sampson was so sprung he continued to stay with the woman who tried to have him killed. When the “magic” wore off in this case, dude was weak, bald, and humiliated. – Similar to the way some woman find themselves when it’s all said and done.
I can see both sides of the coin…can you?
Ya sure, youbetcha. Of course.
I smell scarcasim
Nope, you just stated the obvious
Please enlighten me as to why you have taken this stance? Especially since I’ve looked at the male and female prospective.
You said love and other shyt makes you blind to the characte flaws, men and women. Ok, yes. I agree.
I heard “Blame Game” in my head the whole time I read this and I still don’t get the Chris Rock skit even though it’s funny. I really think Champ, whether you meant to or not, pointed out that this perpetual debate is stupid as hell. I didn’t laugh because this is the conversation at every lounge, bar, and brunch when it comes to single, educated black folks. I just start changing the subject to politics…I will lose my mind like Issa Rae if I have to endure another such conversation. We not bout solutions, we like the problem too much…
YES Aisha!
We have these pointless debates almost weekly at work and as much as i try to stay out of it, someone says smething so wrong i get sucked in
Whew. Perhaps the twiggas on Twittah will lay off the whole #BlameCheeks thang. LOL
(Oh. I’m back, btw. Missed ya’ll and shat!!)
In other news, I used to jam to “Up Jumps The Boogie.” The days, they were good and old.
But, yeah, this was a great post, Champ. I loved the angle you took here. Especially naming them Jack and Jill (*snicker*). I mean, gotta give props to ya effectively mimicking the female voice because I was shole skeptical like… “This gone have to be a dual post”, so good look!
Even though I lowkey think you got help from Lady ChampThough we love to shift blame to the other party, the circle goes around and around SO many times that you can’t help but believe that we’re BOTH right. We both have valid points. Thing is, with relationships, no matter who is to the blame, in order for it to work, each party has to take a step forward in a progressive direction. It shole DOES take two to tango (that was purchased on LivingSocial)*
*Oh, I was just trying to modernize an ol’ cliché and whatnot…
It shole DOES take two to tango
And if you play the right record you can make a whole room of n*ggas fall in line and slide, wobble, cha-cha, bus stop, or whatever.
Well that about sums it up.
Quickly, I think instead of laying blame, we should talk about who has the power to change our situation. We both have some, but I think it’s reasonable to suggest women have more because we ultimately determine when children when be brought into the equation. Children generally perpetuate our current beliefs, morals, standards, etc.
The children are our future, if you will, so women effectively have more control over the future.
We can no longer hold our breath and hope that Tyrell gets it together. We either have to get it together with Brad or get our tubes tied and ride out into the sunset, build wealth, maybe adopt and make sure our wealth is kept in the community.
I’m blurry this morning. i guess I’m saying it’s our [women's] fault if we don’t encourage change within ourselves now.
“We can no longer hold our breath and hope that Tyrell gets it together. We either have to get it together with Brad or get our tubes tied and ride out into the sunset, build wealth, maybe adopt and make sure our wealth is kept in the community.”
I swear like 1/3 of my daily writing could be summed up by that right there. Heartbreaking.
This post is so EPIC is not even funny. The fact that you wrote this with conveying both sides and ACCURATELY is just…*standing ovation*
As women, we have so much control, but not all of us recognize that power. So, if Latwanda does operate her power, but I do, JoJo is just going to go over to her. However, my behavior has sh*t to do with Latwanda. It has to do with my standards, morals and desires. Yeah, JoJo is going to probably go over to Latwanda, so is LilMan, PeeWee, and Roach. HOWEVER, when Edward comes along, my values will be golden. Yeah, there is a lot of pool water in crystal drinking glasses, and one brita filtered fresh water filled drinking glass in the midst of all the contaminated f*ckery, but it’s definitely worth taking a sniff. You just can’t ignore the smell of bleach!
I can’t speak on men, although I have an opinion, my expertise is on myself!
doesn*t operate her power. But, ya’ll smart. I’m sure ya’ll got that.
This back and forth between Jill and Jack is funny but true. I think that accepting accountability on both sides will solve a significant part of the issues between Black women and men.
Frankly I’m tired of men that complain about women yet believe in double standards and think all problems will be solved if women will put up with their ish. Even in the so-called good ole days (pre-1970s) men were on some BS. That’s right people them old school men you hold in high regard didn’t do right by women either. Women have always been expected to tolerate BS from men. Ninjas need to own up to it.
Secondly women need to also accept responsibility. This victimization on steroids needs to stop. I think our patriarchal society has a huge role in this. I’ve seen women deal with men that have red flags glaring but choose to ignore it. The ability to question yourself and your decisions will help out greatly. Your idea, what you want, or how you think things should be rather than how they are needs to be questioned if their not working out right for you. It may be convenient and comfortable to hold on to that but you’ll pay in the long run.
I agree with all of this!
That was cute and hilarious. BTW, I don’t know anyone who speaks like Jill. If I talked to a man like that in real life, I’d be toothless. Anywho, this myth that woman are the cause of relationship woes was spread by men. Throughout history, the woman has always been depicted as weak, evil etc. History was written by men. All these studies and articles depicting women as whorish temptress are written and circulated by men. Men run the world, society, etc so their views and opinions will be believed by all. You see how women get treated in the rest of the world: middle east, Africa, etc. Men cheat and women get blamed. Its always our fault. Don’t believe it. Men ccount for most of the numbers in just about everything: crime, abuse, infidelity, etc and women populate the earth more than men so that says a lot. Of course Jack would win as this is written by a man lol. Subconsciously, men have a difficult time dealing with their flaws. It’s easy to blame the weaker s.ex but men are the agressors. Women want love and acceptance. Even when we cheat, its a need emotionally driven…and we cheat far less than men. Women have been proven to be better communicators, better nurturers, better lovers, etc so I find it hard to believe we are the issue. My eyes don’t lie.
” And, as long as there is no incentive to be “good” — and by “incentive” I mean “p*ssy” — you’re going to see more and more men go the dog route.”
Best quote of the whole post lol. Seriously though, we all know that both sides are to blame, but what steps must both sides take to begin cleaning up this mess (or at least to stop making the mess in the present and future)?
In all honesty its a lost cause…for every trifling brotha there is out there there’s a naive woman out there giving him some. For every bitter woman who expects a man to carry the burden of every failed relationship she had since 15, theres a brotha out there who
will try to prove her wrong get fed up and do the same thing every other dude did before himall you can do is go out find one of the good ones and smh at the rest of societyTo be honest, its not perception. Stats show that men eff up relationships more than women. Men are majority spread of hiv and child abandonment. It’s not saying that women are blameless. I’m adding to the topic of who is to blame more. Women bare the brunt of criticism for family issues despite the overwhelming numbers that show majority men as the wrong doers and its not right. Subconsciously we blame women because we are conditioned to think that way by a male dominated society despite more female population. When Brad Pitt cheated on Jennifer Aniston, Angelina got the blame of stealing him and Jennifer got the blame of not wanting to have his babies. Lol its ridiculous how much blame women get.
BTW I’m not a feminist
Toothless? Where do you live? I need the address so I can re-route the underground railroad. # explainsawholelot
+ 1 on the toothless
LMAO I can’t talk to men aggressive like “n*gga you this and that Eff you, etc”. Women I know are softer than that. These island men won’t tolerate it.
I hope you and I can agree that simply because choose not to speak to men in this fashion (I applaud you BTW) does not mean that there are women out there that do chose to speak to men in this fashion.
Now that I think about it, Im full of it. I do know women who talk like that…but not a lot
I’ve read nary other comment. I just wanted to say that the statement below should be put on t-shirts.
“Also, do you realize that you’re trying to convince me that a man’s truest instinct is to run away from responsibilities they created? You do realize that, right? You’re basically trying to get me to believe that an unpoliced black man will do something that no other animal in the entire f*cking kingdom does?”
The messed up part is that a lot of men and women believe exactly this. As a result, women don’t give men the opportunity to disappoint by showing themselves as people who run away from responsibilities.
Meh. Black women been picking the wrong dudes since our days on the plantation when Abraham told Sarah he had a plan for freedom and could stop by her cabin later to show her. This Western civilization says that you must be married and have children within said marriage in order to be “legitimate.” Seemingly, Black women have held up their end of the bargain while nigs have had a tendency to be footloose and fancy free. Did anyone see The Sylvers Unsung? That dude left his wife and 10 kids – and went where?!? Where?!?
Point is Black women have been single mothers, head of households by default for generations, have dealt with their husbands mistresses who lived across town or down the road, and raised the “outside” children when need be. Our grandmothers, great grandmothers, and on accepted a lot in order to comply with the rules of society. It is quite revolutionary that today’s Black woman is actually demanding something more from their supposed help mate, partner, and husband.
@Diana
“Did anyone see The Sylvers Unsung? That dude left his wife and 10 kids – and went where?!? Where?!? ”
I saw that. And that’s why I hate it when Black women and men romanticize how things were as if it was all good. Women tolerated a lot of nonsense from because they didn’t have many options and men took advantage of that.
True. so true @ Diane and Humble.
Until both sexes stop providing each other with an alternative to stepping up and truly improving our relationships, we will continue to have this discussion.
co-sign all of this. But don’t speak too loud about revolution. Nigs might go back and tell massa. Might turn into a “man down” type of situation. lol.
Lol.. More individuals of color over analyzing a simple thing.
Humble One I agree with what u said about both sides being held accountable and ignoring. The blame game irritates me. Dating is part of life and just like everything else we are going to make some bad decisions. I hear men complain about the type of women they are with and they don’t cook, clean, they have low standards, they want abusive men. And then I hear women complain he cheats, lies, won’t work, not affectionate. Well, something needs to change within you and your standards before you can begin to look at anyone else. If you continue to attract the same type of mate, you need to look somewhere else for a mate and set reasonable standards. If he cheated on the last few women he was with that just may be a pattern and something he is likely to do to you. If If she slashed a few tires and busted a few windows, your Charger may not be safe if you piss her off. Instead of expecting your partner to do and come equipped with everything, you could write down what you bring to the table and find someone who would be compatible. (I can cook really well so maybe she doesn’t have to be the next contestant for Top Chef or I have a good career and am financially stable, maybe he doesn’t need a six figure salary as long as he is a hard worker with good work ethics). At the end of the day who you CHOOSE to date is your choice. Instead of blaming all black males/females accept responsibility for your part in the bad decision. Maybe it isn’t good to have unprotected sex with him and I have no idea what kind of father/mother he/she might be. I know you can’t possibly know everything but you should know enough before making life altering choices with that person. And if things don’t work out, use what you’ve learned and move on. Its ok if he doesn’t look like Idris Alba or she couldn’t be Halle Berry’s twin as long as I’m attracted to him/her. Maybe I shouldn’t require him/her to have washboard abs when my stomach hangs over my pants. Just be realistic and when/if it doesn’t work out figure out y and do better next time.
Sorry to vent but I had to get that off my chest.
I’m going to go out on a limb here, but i believe the blame lies SQUARELY on the shoulders of us as black men. I’ve read most of the comments and they are mostly the same
“Women should choose better”
“They don’t like regular dudes”
“Women are too free with their sexuality.”
ALL of these issues lie first and foremost with us. Why? Because men are the stabilizers of family, and to that extent, the stabilizers of society. You might get a few bad apples here and there but if we as black men were really stepping up into the roles and responsibilities of husbands and fathers, we’d be able to guide, mentor, and eradicate the above issues with our DAUGHTERS.
And to speak on that, we wouldn’t be leaving women to raise sons when a woman cannot properly raise a man. She can do her best, and give him good principles, but she cannot teach him how to be a man, and often times ends up enabling him, whether good or bad. We send these enabled young men out into the world not knowing how to deal with their emotions, or not understanding responsibility, and also because no father was around, not seeing (as a brotha above said) the benefit of ALSO finding a good wife, and starting a family.
With stable homes, which means us as men in our right position, everything else falls into place. Now, please don’t think i’m discrediting single mothers who raise good children, or excusing two parent families with issues, however those are extremes (like the stereotypes being constantly presented) on the bell curve. If we bring back responsible fathers and husbands, we bring back stable families, which perpetuates the cycle of a stable community.
*in love with you* I can breathe again. Tears forming. There is hope. Please teach somebody
This comment right here.
If only more actually LIVED like this though.
Indeed.
I agree with this. I refuse to be the type of man that I wouldn’t want my daughter to be involved with.
this!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Hypothetical not actual.
“I refuse to be the type of man that I wouldn’t want my daughter to be involved with.”
If there is ANY model on how to be a good man to your woman, the above is IT.
This really moved me. Wow!
AMEN!
This golden rule needs to be WIDELY distributed.
Don’t act to a woman in a way you wouldn’t want your daughter to experience.
Simple and perfectly easy to understand rule.
And the award for best comment goes to……..Squeakdaddykane Let’s give it up for him!!!!! *applause*
I thought it was just my “bitter woman” eyes readin all the “blame the women” comments. Even the “blame the men” comments, are blaming women
…and I’m not for blamin all of anyone, but you make some very valid points. Only men can be fathers! A woman can’t even raise a daughter to be well-adjusted and virtuous without the consistent presence of a good man.
I think part of the problem is that we (women) are forced to take on the masculine role as heads of households (when our children have no fathers) and we are expected to be able to balance that with feminine submission and that is almost impossible!
I agree with you 100% that the solution is for men to simply step up in their roles as fathers (and women allow them to lead)
That’s real talk. I just see all this talk and I’m like we wouldn’t have these problems if we as men took care of business. I have a son and a daughter very close in age and the nuances of raising them both tell me that if I wasn’t present it would do them both a disservice.
yep, it’s our fault, black men are the QBs of the community, if we fail, we get the blame, that’s the way it is *adds piano riff*
Penalty!!!! *throws the MAN UP flag*
Squeakdaddykane did a masterful job of weaving biblical and worldly references. God held Adam (not Eve) accountable for disobeying him. I will agree the deck is stacked against us; we can either get down or lay down. I choose to get down and be an agent for change..what about you?
nah squeakdaddykane is right…i’ll just man up, let women do what they want, and be the Fixxer
*drops the “Can you work with that” beat*
We don’t need to “fix” anything. If you love your lady, raise your kids, protect your family and I do the same with my family, our kids have a better road map regarding how things should be. If or children continue on this path we have change and we built the bridge.
*theme music plays while I fade to black*
@peter parker
Where else should the blame be placed? Or the question I’d prefer to ask is why wouldn’t we want to accept the responsibility? Why would we want the shift the blame onto our ladies when obviously, and i’m sure you can ask any woman here, if we as men are on our dean, then the rest falls into line. Problem is, we haven’t been, thus the decay of our families, and our culture. We should be proud that the success or failure of our race starts with us as men, and by taking that pride we take the responisbility, instill it, and pass it on.
blame shouldn’t be placed anywhere else.
it’s our fault, and we as men gotta fix it and do better.
we aren’t allowed the luxury of excuses.
*80′s slow clap*
No one likes to bring up the fact that we have the highest number of single parent homes headed by women, and yet, the onus is still on us. I hate the blame the women argument as well, because it certainly takes two and it starts young with instilling values such as accountability and responsibility into our kids. Maybe we wouldn’t have these issues we speak of today.
Jill Scott’s “I Need You” comes to mind.
@Squeak
I think what I like most about your comment is that it is a TRUE example of taking personal responsibility. It is always convenient to discuss what someone else should be doing when your role is just as significant (if not more). Good stuff!
Preciate it.
You seriously need a forum. Teach ‘em.
“You think it’s coincidence that our families started to go in the shitter at the exact same time y’all became “sexually liberated” and started popping birth control pills like they were Tic Tacs?”
Jack has been misinformed. Have Jack read the Jim Crow laws and then read about the the increase in crack use in our communities in the late 80′s early 90′s. Black families going to shit is NOT about the black woman. While she may have some faults, I’d say, the reason the black community is even holding on right now is because of black women in single parent homes.
Ya know, it’s amazing how many men use that argument (and/or feminism). I mean, I’m figuring that’s why Champ illustrated it in Jack’s response because it truly is a common (and highly misinformed) point men make. Especially since these same dudes know squat about the movement they blame other than generic rhetoric. LOL
When everyone and everything has literally and figuratively thrown the kitchen sink at you in order to facilitate your demise, it begins to take a toll psychologically. Racism, classism, sexism, etc (I say them all together, because they are all inextricably linked) are still huge problems that persist from well before the Civil Rights Era, yet somehow we believe that we live in a “post-racial/class/sex” society. It’s easy to lay blame at the feet of individuals and toss about publicly consumed stereotypes, but the truth is people rarely understand how much outside influences (the media) affect our thought processes, wants and goals. It’s likely that even if we did, we wouldn’t want to admit to ourselves that we are all very weak minded when it comes to examining these ideas critically. Most men aren’t thugs or good-for-nothings. Most either hold jobs (remember unemployment, while high at around 16-25% for blacks, still indicates that at least 3/4′s of the working pop. hold jobs) or go to school; they are regular guys trying to make it. Most women are not hard pressed vindictive vipers that verbally eviscerate men at slightest provocation. Most are interesting females that either hold jobs or go to school. Both men and women are looking for vibrant company with which to flirt. If something grows from there, then so be it. The media (And yes this includes you Champ and Panama, as well as your blogs, although to a much lesser extent) is responsible for most of the arguments seen here, just nonsense perpetuated by a system that wants to keep us weak so that it can financially exploit us.
I have nothing. Superman save them or death ray them. That is all.
catching up on my emails and saw this…felt it to be very appropriate for todays post.
All blame is a waste of time. No matter how much fault you find with another, and regardless of how much you blame him, it will not change you. The only thing blame does is to keep the focus off you when you are looking for external reasons to explain your unhappiness or frustration. You may succeed in making another feel guilty about something by blaming him, but you won’t succeed in changing whatever it is about you that is making you unhappy.”
- Dr. Wayne W. Dyer, is a best-selling author and motivational speaker.
Thats toooo real! I like that.
Happy birthday!
thank ya maam!
“…the Michelle Bachmann school of Misremembering Facts.” love it.
The post was funny, but ummm most importantly it is our very own,Ms. LipGlass herself, Keisha Brown’s B-day!!!
Happy Birthday E-sis…I hope your day and year are especially special and filled with many blessings, surprises, happiness, success,
peenand love love love. Enjoy your day and all that it may bring. XOXOHappy Birfday K-Bizzle!!!!
HAHAAAA….
Thanks Phi-sis!!! I want all of those things. even the strikethrough’d.
*cake for everyone!!!!
Once again QUEENSBRIDGE! ….and happy birthday wishes and blessings. *cues Luke one mo’ ‘gain*
New idea: take responsibility for one’s self. Wear the condom. Take the pill. DO NOT get pregnant by the old @$$ MARRIED drug dealer who’s on the way to prison (because he wouldn’t “snitch” on the real money makers O__o) for 5 years. H3ll, don’t BE that drug dealer.
We have all fallen short (maybe not as dramatically as above) and we can’t get up for these types of conversations…these conversations that just place blame back and forth….back…and forth…and back…..
The real losers are the elders and the children that are left to fend for themselves.
ijs
The bottom line is that both sides are right and wrong all at once. Trifling men get chose by “good” women and the “good” women get burned. Ain’t shyt women get chose by “good” brothers and the “good”brothers get burned. The “good” men and women should have been more discerning, while the ratchet, trifling, ain’t shyt men and women should have been less ratchet, trifling, and ain’t shyt. There is plenty of blame to go around. There is a level of culpability for all parties involved. The part that I think folks are getting twisted is the responsibility piece. Folks stay confusing correlation with responsibility. I believe that it is truth.com that if teenage girls stopped checking for lil ratchet a$$ dudes, that there would be less lil ratchet a$$ dudes running around the middle and high schools. Does that mean that I believe that these teenage girls are RESPONSIBLE for these boys behavior? Hell no! But do I think it contributes to them thinking it’s cool to be this way? I certainly do. I also believe that there are some elements of hip hop culture that contribute to their behavior, but I damn sure don’t BLAME hip hop or hold it responsible. Responsibility comes down to self. In the case of these kids, it comes down to parents, guardians, mentors, or whoever is responsible for them as minors. As an adult, I can only be held responsible for my own actions, my own decisions, and my own outcomes.
When bad things happen, I have to own my part, regardless of how miniscule I believe it to be. When the n*ggas broke into my car and stole my radio, it was partially my fault for not removing the face. I got lazy and comfortable and slept on my surroundings. My fault. If I leave my curtains open for the thieves to see all my nice $hit, it’s partially my fault when the wolves run up in my house and take my $hit. Doesn’t mean those thieving n*gga wolves are absolved of their responsibility, but it does mean that I need to learn from the experience so that I can change some things and do all that is within my power to prevent those outcomes from occurring again. Can I insure that it won’t happen again? Nope. But if it does happen again, it won’t be because I was slippin.
Personal responsibility and smart decision making folks. That’s what its all about.
**** that if teenage girls stopped checking for lil ratchet a$$ dudes, that there would be less lil ratchet a$$ dudes running around the middle and high schools. ****
I remember you saying something like this a few weeks past (or actually that your husband said it) and I remember disagreeing with it (and I still do). I don’t know if there would necessarily be a correspondent change in men because of how women act (it’s possible but I don’t know if it would happen) – but if it is true that the things that are in our best interest our also our responsibility – then (IMO) you are tacitly saying it IS women’s responsibility to change their behavior in order for men to modify theirs… because ultimately that is the desirable outcome for women. I do not concur. There is an implied onus on women (IMO) when it stated in this fashion that I do not believe is true.
But of course this all hinges on whether or not you believe the things that are in our interests are our responsibility, and that it is a desirable for women to have men who are less “ratchet”.
DQ, what I’m saying is that the “implied” onus should not be implied. We fall prey to the logical fallacy of association as causation all the time. They are not the same. If the boy I like and who likes me is acting like a gotdamn monkey because he thinks it will impress me, he will stop doing so if I tell him that I don’t like that shyt, providing it’s not in his nature (or nurture) to act like a gotdamn monkey. Also, keep in mind, I’m talking about boys being influenced by what girls like. Not men being influenced by what men like. Being a teacher in the burbs, I’ve seen boys with no parts of no hood in them acting a damn posing a$$ fool because they think that’s what the girls like. That is what adolescent boys do. It is where they are developmentally. They cater to what they believe their female counterparts will dig. That does NOT put the onus on the girls to take control. That is asinine. They are all children. They can barely be accountable for themselves let alone someone else. However, the logical fallacy of association as causation leads folks to misconstrue it as such.
On the contrary, I do not believe that if WOMEN stopped liking thugs that there would be less thugs. There is a difference between a grown a$$ knuckle head and a 13 year old poser. Grown thugs have adopted thuggin as a lifestyle choice. A grown man has made a decision to be who he is, do what he does, and live how he lives. A woman ain’t gone change that by telling him she doesn’t like it. That is why I always refer to girls and boys, rather than men and women when I make this point.
I think the logical fallacy that I’m getting at is single cause fallacy. Even if you limit your subset to boys and girls, there are a number of reasons why a young boy might choose to act a donkey (including to impress girls). If we do not articulate all of those reasons (or at least mention some of them) then we create (at the minimum) an implied 1-to-1 relationship between the two that in reality probably doesn’t exist. The inference that there is respoonsibility contained in that 1-to-1 relationship is a short hop away (and yes I agree people shouldn’t do it, but they will and in some regards, they would have reason to do so).
So I guess I still disagree but thanks for articulating it and breaking down the specifics. I understand where you’re coming from now…
…and I still disagree
Since standarized rules don’t accompany men or women. You are going to find that men and women will act foolishly to attract a partner simply because a) it worked before of b) got bad information from someone they trusted.
Here are some truths that women don’t fully realize / utilize:
It’s a man’s world but women control the puppet strings
If you know a man will do just about anything to obtain access to the treasure, act united for a change, agree to hold men to a standard, and ensure that there’s no dissention in the ranks.
Mini case study – When I was a young sigma, I dated a girl that told me point blank I’m waiting for marriage before I drop it like it’s hot. There were other girls that liked me but she held the keys to the kingdom. Who took the keys you ask? the girl who would drop it like its hot. If all of the girls kept the ranks (and their legs tight), I would have no other choice but to fall in.
Why do you need to have other choice? You don’t have it in you to do right unless you are forced? This is the reason I don’t mess with dudes who judge women by the accessibilty of their vj. Because they seem to be less likely to take responsibility for their behavior. Not you, I dont know you like that.
I didn’t know I had a choice until I was told there was an alternative. WC I love u fam but you are still missing the point. In this case the vj was the key to the kingdom but the key could be anything (attention, money, time, etc).
Let me jump into my econ teaching mode for a second
If you have two identical products how do you choose one over the other?
In my example, both girls were attractive, smart, and athletic; you could easily subsitute one for the other. The difference was one found something that appealed to my self serving nature and made me aware she was willing to accomodate my self serving nature. In hindsight, I made a huge mistake because other than sex we had nothing in common.
Do you know how absurd what you are suggesting is? You know that, that women being able to put chastity belts on all other women has never ever existed… and there is no way to force other women to behave in one way or the other.
So what you are basically saying is the men at their core are worthless dolts who go by their penii alone.
If that is the case. I give up. We should all give up and let it go to hell in a hand basket because if man’s nature is evil and ratchet… nothing will change it.
In your scenario you take ZERO responsibility.
You were faced with a great girl who had good morals and what did you do, shat all over her… You dumped her for one that would sex you up.
YOU are the problem. Not either girl. YOU. YOU. YOU. YOU.
If you valued Girl #1 and did right by her there would have been NO PROBLEM.
Sister Sass you are missing the point. Stop looking at the sexual aspect of the example and apply it in other applications. Since you could not, I’ll provide you with a non sex example.
If a standard was set that all cars will use unleaded gas (I don’t know how old you are and if you remember leaded gas) and I wanted to buy a car must conform to the standard. There’s no “soft landing” or underground economy that will supply me with a non-conforming car.
In terms of accountability I did take responsibility for my actions. I, like all humans, made a decision to satisfy my utility. I made the decision based upon the information I had available and I had to live with the decision.
@ Sweet Sass
Did you not see where I said
In this case the vj was the key to the kingdom BUT THE KEY COULD BE ANYTHING (attention, money, time, etc).
SS93
I hear what you’re saying and I know you’re not the only one that espoused this view, but me? I’m all about accountability, and I say our behavior as men is ours to change (or to maintain). I reject (even in theory) the idea that men might change if women united together in some sort of booty embargo. We are who we are, and we change when we want to change, not a second before.
There is nothing in my experience that suggests to me that if women formed a united front and said there were some actions that they just weren’t going to stand for, that we wouldn’t find some way to subvert or otherwise circumvent that stand (to get what we wanted) without actually changing anything.
Again, I know you’re not the only one that said this, and I might be in the minority, and that’s fine… the cheese will just have to stand alone on this one.
@DQ
The purpose of the thread was to create an example that could be applied in globally. Since too many people are caught up with sex, let’s use smoking. If all men banded together and said we will not date / marry women that smoke because we think it’s a filthy habbit. If there’s no dissention in the ranks, conformity would happen naturally.
“There is nothing in my experience that suggests to me that if women formed a united front and said there were some actions that they just weren’t going to stand for, that we wouldn’t find some way to subvert or otherwise circumvent that stand (to get what we wanted) without actually changing anything.”
This is exactly my point! If the deviant subculture does not exist, all you can do is conform to the standard.
*adds $20 to the collection plate* You just preached for real. Like seriously all that right there is Absolutetruth.com… 151truth.com maybe a shot of hennessytruth.com Its all liquor related cuz it burn a lil when you swallow it, put a lil hair on ya chest and make you think grown thoughts.
After all aren’t we all supposed to drink responsibly?!?
But if none of what I said is clear…I totally agree with your sentiments.
I’ll drink to that. Firefly.
I have to disagree somewhat. People are going to be people and there are times when really, you as a person tried to do the right things and still will get burned. That’s just life and it really is what it is. Sure it’s great to take responsibility for the things that you inherently are responsible for, but you can’t be somewhat, or even a little bit responsible for someone elses’ behavior because at the end of the day, that person made a choice and chose to act against your own interest. My car got broken into as well and n*ggas stole my radio when I first moved into my new neighborhood. I didn’t think that was my fault at all just by the fact that person chose to break in my sh*t.
Things that happen to unsuspecting people are not their fault. I will agree with that. However, when you know better, but don’t do better simply because you feel that you shouldn’t have to… well, you sort of get what you get. Your car situation wasn’t your fault. You ain’t know. My car situation… partially my fault. I knew better. That’s why I bought the stereo with the removable face plate. No face plate means no opportunity to jack my stuff. But I when I didn’t use my better judgment, I got got. It happens. The same happens in relationships. Unsuspecting sisters get got. I’m not saying it doesn’t happen. Lawd KNOWS it happens. However, we can’t be unsuspecting our entire lives. At some point we must grow up, allow our instincts to kick in and use the good judgment that the good Lord gave us. We are smart. We know how to use context clues. We have to take our blinders off and be willing to see situations for what they are even when we don’t want to.
Jack For President.
Everything he said was truth.
Great post~
Ladies may not agree with me but I’m gonna take Jack’s side in this debate. While I don’t agree with all “Jack” had to say I will say this… The power of the “P$ssy” is an amazing thing.
If some women would practice a little bit of discretion we might actually be able to get the majority of these d$ickheads to act right.
In all seriousness, when it comes to relationships if we ALL set our standards as women from the gate and not allow men to run from Tammy, to Kiesha, to Renee and dems house only to curse him out then allow him back in our beds the next day, we might actually see these dudes straighten their act up a bit. Ladies have to stop allowing married or otherwise spoken for men to lay up with them thinking that eventually he will choose you over her.
Now the men have some work to do as well. They already know their wrong before they walk into the 24 hour Walgreens to pick up the pack of condoms but they do it anyway. That said, if Sally up the street would tell his dumb behind that she’s closing up shop and his butt is not being admitted he could use his $5.99 to buy his girl a happy meal from McDonald’s and cuddle on the couch. Lol
They can only do what we allow them to do! If we put our foot done collectively we can find a cure for “roaming d$ick syndrome.”
“might actually see these dudes straighten their act up a bit.”
The operative word being “might”. There are no guarantees in this theory.
Operative word indeed!
P*ssy has no power. It really doesn’t. If you think like the Summer Eve’s commercial all hail to the V, that your snatch has some magical powers… you are deluded.
There are good, faithful, attractive and amiable women who get dogged all the time. Tiger Woods got himself a swimsuit model nanny… both gorgeous and nurturing, and he STILL ran around with a bunch of hoes. It’s not her fault, it’s his fault he is an a$$.
Deluded, I am not. Simply a figure of speech. Never said a woman was to blame for a man cheating. In a nutshell, if some women would not make themselves available to a cheating man then he would be forced to stay at home and work on the relationship he commited to. Some women make themselves available to married men or men who are in relationships, if those women stopped doing that, who would men have to cheat with?
@Mahogany Princess
Appreciate that… Now… as far as married people go… my thoughts…
Women most of the time mate with desirable men… You have women who ONLY pursue married men…
If he steps out, even if his wife inspired him to, it was still his choice… I think women should fall back because alot of men like variety… His cheating most of the time has no bearing on whether he loves you or his children… But he owes you a STI free paynus…
As long as the female hypergamy model persists (and it will), there will always be men who sleep with lots of women… I am a casualty of this model & I am adjusting accordingly… And so are other nerdy men
If women didn’t want a cheating man, she would pick the “Steve Urkel”-est of men & be happy…
There is a price to be paid for getting with an Alpha…
WHELP, let me go head and get in trouble for the day.
Jill: “Sh*t, you don’t think we all want to meet a nice man? You don’t think we want to be able to trust someone? You don’t think we want someone to love us back? Someone who’ll commit? Someone who we know will at least attempt to hang around if I end up pregnant?”
Nope. I dont need to go into all of this but for any lady who is reading this, look in your very own circle of friends and look at the bad dating decions they are making. Now while keeping that in mind realize that every circle of friends has AT LEAST 1 one these. Also keep in mind how many VSS’s are in existance as opposed to women who dont buy in to the school of thought many of us on the c-section, in real life and on other blogs advocate. You can define the ratio for yourself but if youre being objective you KNOW it isnt good. You can assign blame to any number of socio-economic factors but the result remains the same.
Jill: “That’s exactly what I’m talking about!!! Why does it always come back to us? Why are we the ones who always have to be the social arbiters, the one’s responsible for whether everyone makes the right decision? I thought men were supposed to be the Alphas dogs, the leaders! Why can’t you police your own damn selves and just do the right thing for the sake of doing the right thing for once, motherf*cker?”
It always comes back to black women because black women ARE the social arbiters for our community. Lets not delude ourselves into thinking they are anything less. Who is always in church? Who is always volunterring? Who STAYS being “big momma” on the block or in the hood trying to make sure the kids are in schools and doing right? Black Women. Does that absolve man from responibilities and them not fulfilling them? NOT AT ALL but lets take a look at the (dare i say it) anthropology of Africans, African-Americans, and Blacks.
What has been the role of men? To hunt, provide resources, consume and conquor.
What has been the role of women? Child rearing, providing all types of support,leading communities and in general holding ish down.
Does it mean mean arent supposed to be socially responsible? I say again ABSOLUTELY NOT, but just a brief look into the social history of our community can show why women ended up being the social arbiters and moral bastions of the black community. Its MOSTLY because they were doing the child rearing while the father was at war, hunting, looking for a job, working at a job or insert any other male duty which ends up providing for his household [Here].
Who is teaching our boys values? Ultimately the true test of a man is doing what you need to do to get the things you need to persevere and survive. Thats what men teach to there sons, how to “man up” and such. The value statments however are usually taught by our mothers, our proud and beautiful black women.
Do men need to teach values to our young boys more? Certianly, but theres a difference in arguing how things should be and why they are the way they are.
You know whose to blame for this post?! KEISHA BROWN AKA QUEENSBRIDGE AKA QUEEN CARIBANA HOSTESS AKA EVENT PLANNER EXTRAORDINAIRE!
How is she to blame? Because if she hadn’t be born, this post wouldn’t have been written. Divine order swag. This makes absolutely no sense, but you don’t have to make sense when it’s someone’s birthday. That didn’t make sense either.
HAPPY BIRFDAY, KB!!! *makes it rain with Canadian Skittles money*
BWAHAAAAAAAAAAAAA…..
you are an absolute fool. and i love you for it.
*grabs bucket to collect skittles money
KB!!!!!! Happy Birthday, Love!!! Hope all of your birthday wishes come true! XOXOXOXOXOXO
“Tami Roman’s Weave” !!!!!!!!! Champ you are Hilaaaarrrrious.
can ya’ll have a party when a sista is in town???
the moment I step outside the DMV is the moment ya’ll wanna throw parties
*kisses teeth*
I see that even at this higher level we fail to understand the basic concept between men and woman. Women get pregnant. Because of that fact, the responsibility rest on them. I know this not fair, but it is a real fact. Do you know if men got pregnant, there would be pill or device that would make sure it only happen when they decided it. It is sad to realize that women still don’t get it that men don’t understand that concept of having to bring a child into the world. We get told and we hear it but we don’t have the practial experience of carrying a child. A large number make a decision to engage in sex regardless of the outcome. Many women believe a man based on his words even though his actions are completely different. When you set a high standard for your body you will get a better selection and will force men to raise their bar too.
so when the babies get here men get a free pass to neglect and abandon?
It’s time we start to realize that we ALL play apart in this madness. We don’t seem to value the lives we bring in this world. Which means we have a lot of men and women running around with unaddressed childhood issues that spill over into their adult lives. Unstable living is the norm for too many, it’s what they saw growing up, it’s what they are use to. It’s not the norm for ppl to marry, live together and raise children in some sectors of the black community. Baby daddies and mommies are the norm. It’s not the norm for many fathers to be stand up dads, active in their children lives; instead “ain’t ish” fathers are the norm (just check your black friends FB statuses on Father’s Day).
All of this start from the home. Unstable homes=unstable kids=unstable adults with issues=unstable communities=unstable living being the norm
“so when the babies get here men get a free pass to neglect and abandon?”
It does seem like that truth be told. You can’t have a baby unless a women decides too. If a woman decides she is not going to have a child very little you can do to stop her.
“You can’t have a baby unless a women decides too. If a woman decides she is not going to have a child very little you can do to stop her.”
Taking preventative measures is a start.
I totally agree with you that childhood trauma more often than not dictate behavior as adults. But I honestly think that if folks kept it as real as they claimed to and there would not be as many problems as there are. If dudes were upfront and honest i think it would allow for better decisions to be made….call me naive but i honestly think that is part of the problem. That goes both ways. If dude can say I don’t want kids or I just want to smash and dash. But i think that comes from having some kind of integrity both in being able to be honest about what you want and also what you are willing to accept.
So, Tent, are you saving yourself for marriage?
Would you propose to a woman who made you wait until the wedding night?
Riiiiiiiight.
This was a good post.
Women’s ‘ginas tingle for an assorted variety of players, thugs, badboys and aloof cads. When these guys hurt them, they cry foul, but they invited pain and betrayal into their own lives.
But I don’t really blame women because I think it’s an attraction they can’t help. You can’t blame a woman for being attracted to players and badboys any more than you can blame a man for being attracted to beautiful women.
“Raheem has like 18 by himself; going door to door like a Jevohah’s Witness, leaving semen deposits instead of copies of Awake!”
I died at that quote
Just read all the comments…
How about instead of pointing fingers (again), why don’t we have a drink to wash the bitter words from our mouths and blame it all on the alcohol.
Oh and…
HAPPY BIRFDAY KB AN TRL!!
LMFAO.
thanks TAC!
It’s been a while folks…
Let me throw this out there. These types of conversation eventually start circling around whose giving up the goods. Ya’ll trippin…
What’s a ‘Good Guy’? A guy that does what the woman wants from what I’m reading. Regardless of the basic instinct of self-preservation, a lot of women ignore this need in dealing with random men. Most men are about self preservation. I’m about self preservation; however, I can admit there were times where women I was involved with absolved themselves of self preservation. Why? You know I had to ask them. It was because they thought that the preservation of a relationship (or potential relationship) required it. They had a notion of some false dichotomy between self-preservation and “liking”/”taking a chance”/”giving your all.” You can be “all about” this new guy you’re involved with, without forgetting about self preservation. Meaning… Don’t go diving into something that you know will hurt you, then want to be mad for 8 years and bashing people of the opposite sex. If you choose to walk into such a situation, then take the ‘L’ and have the decency to put that hurt into the context of you making that decision.
Ok. Then how does one ever get to the point to make simple sacrifices for a (potential) relationship, etc. Let’s not overcomplicate this. If I wanted to play PS3, however this lady I know wanted to talk b/c of some ish she’s going through, me choosing to talk to her isn’t violating self-preservation. However, if this lady wants me to father a child that I didn’t want, self preservation MAY come into play. Why does it come into play about THAT of all things though? I will use that example since it’s the clearest to demonstrate this analysis. I’m sure every man who has ignored the birth of their child considered the change a violation of his current state of existence.
Ok. Then how do many men actually take on the responsibility of a child? The answer is simple. The word ‘self’ in self-preservation doesn’t always mean ‘individual.’ In order for a person to want a child, they must re-define ‘self’ to mean something other than the individual. For a woman this would be MUCH easier to achieve for a child given the child is living inside her individual (physical) self. Not saying all women will choose to have a child, but this is a factor. Another factor is that a part of the guy’s “self” (DNA, that is… his essence) is inside her. With all else equal, her redefinition of “self” can easily include the guy that impregnated her.
The solution:
Rather than using some vague word like “communication,” let’s make things clear here. Do NOT rid yourself of self-preservation. But rather, with a partner, redefine what self preservation means to the both of you (actually just the ‘self’ part). Seriously, no matter how long you and a guy been smashing, if he can verbally say that his idea of self-preservation doesn’t include you then that means that you don’t contribute to who he is and that family with him may not be possible at that second. Only when a guy considers you as a part of himself is there really a concept of “we.” I’m not lying.
Secondly, do not have the child of guy that don’t want to be the father of that child. Look, in my eyes, a child is the most precious gift a woman can give a man. So if he doesn’t want that gift, then why do you deem him worthy of that gift? If someone I liked didn’t like the gift I was going to give to them, I would straight up take that ish back or not get it and save myself the trouble. Like if I proposed to a woman that I KNEW didn’t want to marry me. I buy the ring, get in all types of debt or use up my savings for it under the rouse of me “taking a chance.” Look, I’m not taking chance. She made her position clear. I’m just showing that I don’t respect her wishes and what she said b/c I think I have a better idea of what she should do. THAT IS SELFISH. A lot of women are having babies for selfish reasons. A lot of guys are declaring “love” for selfish reasons.
So where does the concept of taking responsibility come into play? A man should take responsibility for the person he involves himself with. So, that means if he’s smashing a chick that HE KNOWS want to have a child when she gets pregnant but he chooses to bust in her anyway, then… welp. In this ‘hush-hush on the important stuff’ culture, no one is likely to bring it up b/c they feel it would “kill the mood.” Even if ya’ll been smashing for two weeks, shoot, you might as well talk about it.
Outside the realm of having kids:
Look, everyone thinks they’re awesome and worth someone’s time. Every woman I’ve been involved with or not have told me they would make an awesome girlfriend, for me. That’s great confidence but that ish is NOT true. Every woman I’ve been involved with was not a great girlfriend. So regardless of how great a guy says he is, he could be not a match for you. He could be a spectacular a$$hole. Dude could just simply suck at life all together. If a person cannot read the cues (you give) that will help them achieve their potential (concerning YOU), then they are not for you. There’s this ‘Let’s force it’ methodology that is clearly not working. At the same time, it’s taking a chance. So I’m not going to the casino, loose my money, then want to sue the casino. That’s the approach of men and women nowadays.
I 100% agree with ALL OF THIS.
Happy Birthday!! Feliz Navidad & Bonne Fete to
Keisha Brown
AND
TheRealestLeo
Hoping you both have the bestest birthday ever!!!
*sent from my blackberry
Thanks, Yoles!
I wanna share my most recent story with you all, because it reflects on my opinions about some of this. Lemme preface it by saying that I’m mixed, but the guy in question is white. I make a point to mention this because I don’t think the issue is as racially exclusive as we think: ALL MEN and ALL WOMEN got lots of disconnect, no matter the race, and so-called “traditional” roles are breaking down across the board.
I’ve been friends with this guy for years, and in more recently maybe feeling like there was a little more. I finally decided to take the plunge and let him know, and we fumbled awkwardly for a while. After a few months of not much happening, I finally asked him bluntly if he really wanted this or not, and after a torturous week he finally confessed that he just wasn’t ready for that kind of commitment. Was I disappointed? Hell yeah. Rejection burns. I’m at work and if he was here right now I’d probably jump his bones in my cube. But I have so much love and respect for this man because he knew himself enough to admit that he couldn’t handle something serious, and cared about me enough to not string me along. I’m sure he wishes it were otherwise, I know I do. Will I wait for him to get his act together? I honestly can’t say. Alls I know is, if it’s meant to be, we’ll find each other again later. If not, well, we’ll always be friends. What I’m trying to say is, life ain’t always about what we want. Sometimes it needs to be about what’s RIGHT. And part of being an adult is about knowing the difference. So maybe we need to grow up a little, learn to be a little more discerning, and put aside a night’s worth of real good schmanging if we already damn well know it’s gonna lead to a lifetime of misery. Is it hard to say no? Of course. But short of being tied down and drugged, we’re just lying to ourselves if we say we couldn’t help it. C’mon, folks, tell it like it is. We can, we just don’t wanna. Both sides need to get more responsible and stop pointing fingers. It solves absolutely nothing and only creates more negativity. I mean, dang, look what finger-pointing has done to our economy! Woo, chile, don’t get me started!
Ah gots nothin’ but love for ya’ll.
Well, I realize that I am way late to the dance, but I’ll simply say this:
It is my studied and considered view that Black folks don’t WANT to “solve” these issues; we have way too much invested in what they represent, what they mean, to so many of us. This is why these things go on and on, and come to form the backbone of cottage industries. A bit short on time right now, but in the coming days, I will layout more of exactly what I mean along these lines; stay tuned…
O.
You know what, I blame white women too. Long story short, I have a white female friend who reminds me of Samantha from Sex and the City. The only difference is, the majority of the men she dates are black men because, well, she’s a “thick white girl”..but I digress. I asked her how she stayed going on dates with these black men when I can count the number of dates I’ve been on, on one hand. She then tells me to basically become more promiscuous sexually. I was in a state desperation so I briefly pondered what she said but I decided it wasn’t me. Real talk, some man (black or white) is going to wife her, no matter her sexual past or how many hangups she has but I can’t say the same for me…..so yes, white women are to blame because they get the best of both worlds. They’re always the victim and someone will always come to their rescue.
Misty Knight
I had to go back and check because you said some foolishness to me. You said that I was in her threads but you again show note of just how jaded you are.
Notice that Every time my name is in a higher position at an earlier time. She joined comment threads where I had already posted in. If anything I was responding because I recognized her subliminal.
But of course, when you don’t know how to look or where to look, I look like some bitter dude. But really, there is no shade for you BBB members. Trust me. My life wouldn’t work the way it does if I was a what you suggest I am. And I am not tweaking.
If you think form doesn’t matter….if you think HOW YOU SAY WHAT YOU SAY doesn’t matter, then why don’t you go with the next guy that just offers you penus?
Because how you say it matters.
Precisely.
Okay…now that I’m done proving my case…I’ll rest.
Stinking BBB’s…..plus you are judgmental. I forgot to tell you that.
Honestly dude..I’m perplexed..again..at alla dis. I noticed you both going back and forth, and imo you kinda came off as more volatile. The whole time stamp thing and noticing patterns of responses? Oy Vey
Really? I’d imagine that perhaps WC has email notifications of replies ,I’d also imagine that like most of us, she could’ve just been responding to your comments because they piqued her interest , even if in disagreement, but I can’t speak for her, nor do I need to, and we all comment on various threads at various times don’t we? Have you not done the same?
You don’t need to prove any case to me, if you feel slighted you have every right to feel so and that wasn’t my point. I’ve just never saw you respond so viscerally to what appeared to be something so minuscule. Twas odd. Then the whole calling Adonis well adjusted thing in light of his rhetoric was well….nauseating.
But I left it at that, stating my observation. Not once did I suggest you were anything, nor did I even hint at labeling you as anything negative. And look ma no name calling!
But since you have already enrolled me in the Bitter Brigade (Sigh @ the irony) my first act as a new member will to give you some honest feedback:
All this talk of “subliminal”, and perceived shade comes of as paranoid, reactionary, and dramatic. I don’t know if that is who you are, but that is how its appearing. Take it for what it’s worth, but I beg you to stop taking it so personal.
Now if you’ll excuse me I have a “Men Ain’t Shyt” orientation/potluck to attend, and I’m supposed to bring the plates.
Stay Breezy Kid
Rofl. Did you just wipe your hands?
Extremely reactionary with her. She been throwing the same slug trail at me for a while.
I made her mad once with a comment and she is haunting me like the heartbeat in the stairs.
Today was the first time I responded with a goal to have it ceased. Initially I wanted to see how far she’d push it. But given her career, I didn’t issue her enough credit.
It’s one thing to be involved with a man playing mr. good black man till the baby’s born and then turns on you.
It’s another to be involved with a man who from the beginning is no good but you won’t leave em and you think he’ll change for you.
I have zero sympathy for woman who get themselves into these situations, then come out single mothers.
They aren’t victims just stupid woman who thought they would come out of a bad situation smelling like roses.
@William
Thanks for coming on, I just realized something…
Women will rationalize things in order to sleep with a certain dude…
So, she may deceive herself to believe said dude is a fantastic catch cause she is attracted to him…
But again, where are all these Barack Obama men that have community ties to society fooling black women into sleeping with them & then they turn around and is a deadbeat…
Most single mothers knew the type of man she was with…
But women will rationalize their way out of responsibility for their poor choices… But want to be in charge of sh*t