***If you haven’t already, check out “10 Things You Probably Don’t Need to Know About Black Porn (…but I’m going to tell you anyway)” — The Champ’s latest at The GoodMenProject***

Unhealthy romantic relationships and their fallout are the bane of the black community’s existence. Every major issue plaguing us — poverty, crime, dropout rates, Tami Roman’s weave, etc — is either a peripheral or straight up direct effect of our collective inability to choose the right partner and be the right partner.

And, while there are myriad factors contributing to this, today, in 2011, most of the blame lies with us. But, in what’s quite possibility the longest, weirdest, dumbest, and more important “chicken/egg” game ever played, we can’t quite figure out if women should shoulder the majority of the blame for continually choosing shitty partners to mate with, or if men are mainly to blame for f*cking women over and not giving them many options.

In order to finally find some solutions, I invited the two smartest black people in the world — twins Jack and Jill Jenkins of Youngstown, Ohio — to VSB today to debate both the male and female perspectives. Hopefully we’ll finally be able to decide on an answer after hearing their arguments.

Jack: Even though most of y’all broads don’t deserve it, I still believe in chivalry. Because of this, I’ll let Jill make her argument first.

Jill: Ha! Let me? Negro, half of y’all can’t even buy a car without getting a cosign from a dick-drunk white girl. The only thing you’ll “let” me do is whip your ass in this debate.

Jack: One question: When you go to bed at night surrounded by your 27 cats, do you give each of them an individual good night hug or do you just hug them collectively?

Jill: Anyway…look. I and the rest of the African-American female populace are tired of being blamed for all ailing the black community. We’re fed up with being depicted as bitter and antagonistic welfare-dependent Bust-it Babies who contribute nothing to American culture other than Tyra Banks and the five future demons from hell who made their way out of our vaginas and are going to rob you and rape your pets in 10 years.

And, most importantly, I’m absolutely sick at the fact that some of y’all hypocrite analog-ass n*ggas have the audacity to blame us for getting played and occasionally left barefoot and pregnant by you. I admit that we need to make better dating and relationship decisions, but right now, you can’t fault us for not seeing the rare glass of water in the middle of the thousands of cups of bleach and beaver shit we’re forced to drink from.

Jack: Shhhh. You hear that noise?

Jill: What noise?

Jack: That’s the sound of the world’s smallest violin, playing a tune for the black woman’s woes. If you listen closely it actually sounds like it’s playing “Up Jumps The Boogie” by Timbaland and Magoo.

Listen, spare me with your sob story about being blamed for everything. Black males are still the one’s getting killed at record rates, we’re still dying of hypertension when we’re 37, we’re still having entire political campaigns playing on everyone’s fear of us, and we’re still being made to look like hyper-violent 4 year old superthugs. In the bi-annual Oppression Olympics — held yearly in Oprah’s backyard, er, Gayle King’s mansion — we’ve received each gold medal in every event.

But, I’m not here to talk about that. What I do want to discuss is why we get blamed for the shitty dating decisions that you all continue to make. Yes, it’s true that many women in the hood are left barefoot and pregnant by dudes, never to be heard from again. But, what’s also true is the fact that it’s usually the exact same dude knocking up the entire hood! Raheem, Raymond, Rakeem, Rakim, and Rashawn don’t each have multiple babies. No, Raheem has like 18 by himself; going door to door like a Jevohah’s Witness, leaving semen deposits instead of copies of Awake! Yes, it’s true that professional black women may have trouble finding and keeping men. But, what’s also true is that the same 573 chicks are usually each fighting over and f*cking the same seven guys.

Jill: Oh, here we go again with the “the community is f*cked up because all of us dumb black broads want the same men” argument. Seriously, this theory has weaker legs than Stephen Hawking. What you and your brethren fail to realize is that black male relationship dysfunction comes in all shapes, sizes, and forms. Many of the men claiming to be “good guys” are just wolves in disguise; guys who aren’t able to live the “player” lifestyle they want and haven’t been able to bag the video vixen they so desire, so they end up tricking us into dating them and liking them before they show their true colors.

Sh*t, you don’t think we all want to meet a nice man? You don’t think we want to be able to trust someone? You don’t think we want someone to love us back? Someone who’ll commit? Someone who we know will at least attempt to hang around if I end up pregnant?

Jack: Actually, I don’t think you want those things at all. I think you know how to say that you want them. I think that you know that you’re supposed to want them. But, your actions don’t follow your words. If you truly wanted all those things they’d be at the top of the list when you’re thinking of desirable qualities that a mate should have.

Instead, you end up being led by your stupid-ass p*ssy, and instead of meeting men who you know already have those traits, you end up falling for some loser, hoping that he’ll eventually have them too. And, as long as there is no incentive to be “good” — and by “incentive” I mean “p*ssy” —  you’re going to see more and more men go the dog route.

Jill: That’s exactly what I’m talking about!!! Why does it always come back to us? Why are we the ones who always have to be the social arbiters, the one’s responsible for whether everyone makes the right decision? I thought men were supposed to be the Alphas dogs, the leaders! Why can’t you police your own damn selves and just do the right thing for the sake of doing the right thing for once, motherf*cker?

Jack: Get the hell off your moral high horse. People (all people, men and women) are going to do what’s expected of them and what they’re allowed to do. The only difference between you and us is the fact that you’re policed by your uterus. If you subtracted the possibility of pregnancy, y’all would be “unpoliced” just like we are. You think it’s coincidence that our families started to go in the shitter at the exact same time y’all became “sexually liberated” and started popping birth control pills like they were Tic Tacs? Male behavior has always been the same. The only difference now is that it became cool for you all to be hoes.

Jill: I see someone has recently graduated from the Michelle Bachmann school of Misremembering Facts. “Our families started to go in the shitter” when you all decided to go all Dirk Diggler on us in the 70′s; staying home all day and sleeping in different beds every night. Also, do you realize that you’re trying to convince me that a man’s truest instinct is to run away from responsibilities they created? You do realize that, right? You’re basically trying to get me to believe that an unpoliced black man will do something that no other animal in the entire f*cking kingdom does? Do you really want to “win” that argument and convince me that even roaches have more of a moral foundation that black men?

You know what? Nevermind that. Seriously, though, Jack. No one is asking you all to be saints. Just be as decent to us as we’ve tried to be to you. Just make a gotdamn f*cking effort. Is that too much to ask?

Jack: Do you really want me to answer that question?

Jill: No, I don’t. I don’t believe a word of anything you say anymore, so your answer would pointless.

Jack: That’s a shame.

Jill: I know.

—The Champ

***FOR THE DMV VSBers: Come join Panama Jackson this Saturday, August 6, 2011, from 10pm-3am at Liv Nightclub for Reminisce, a party dedicated to the the 90s brought to you by Shine On M Productions x Just Cause x Very Smart Brothas. With music provided by Sup Qool DJ Quartermaine, it’s going to be a throwback to the days when most of us were in college and living the good life. All 90s hip-hop/r&b/dancehall all night long. And most importantly (and best of all) its FREE until midnight ($5 cover after) OPEN BAR on rail liquor from 10-11pm and NO DRESS CODE. Come out and party like you used to do to the music you still listen to and take a shot with Panama Jackson.***

Filed Under:
Damon Young

Damon Young is the editor-in-chief of VSB. He is also a contributing editor for EBONY.com. He resides in Pittsburgh, and he really likes pancakes.

  • Tx10inch

    Wnner by TKOOOO….Jack.

    • Tx10inch

      *Winner

      • Sweet Sass

        No one wins when we are all slowing going extinct.

        • Noneya

          Agreed Sweet Sass. The argument is circular and gets us nowhere.

        • http://www.theleftsidepoets.wordpress.com MicTheMessenger

          Have you seen the birthrate in the hood? The only ppl not LESS extinct than black ppl are Hispanics.

          • LuckBALady

            Just because the birthrate is high doesn’t mean anyone is actually “surviving”.

            • http://www.ifiruled2011.wordpress.com Mahogany Princess

              Say that again!

            • http://www.theleftsidepoets.wordpress.com MicTheMessenger

              Ask the hood that.

  • Gooner

    Wow. Disheartening much?

    • http://www.awordorthree.com Crystal Marie

      Nah… The fact that these conversations (real and imagined) happen is a sign of progress,

      • http://www.twitter.com/drrdb TWIsM

        @Crystal

        1000000% Agree! Hell it may not be pretty, but until you air out all the dirty laundry and get it all out on the table, you can’t really move forward. Isn’t that what forums like this are supposed to be for? Get it out (#pause) and maybe see things from the other P.O.V.

        • Sweet Sass

          I am not sure if this is progress or if things are more entrenched than ever… But like any problem, once you hit rock bottom there is no where else to go but up. Question is, have we hit rock bottom yet?

        • http://twitter.com/kjnetic peter parker

          this goes on over..and over…and over…

          jack and jill’s convo was probably on twitter last month..will be on twitter again in september.

          eventually folks tired of smelling dirty laundry…whether it’s skidmard boxers or rusty bras

          • http://www.twitter.com/drrdb TWIsM

            Pete, that’s true. You can’t just sit and revel in the dirty laundry. At some point you have to say, okay that’s all of it. We’ve said what needed to be said, and now we figure out where do we go from here. Once the “A-Ha” moments have all come to light, you have to find common ground, admit your faults and move forward.

            • Aisha

              Yeah, we should move forward but I don’t know if we want to. Once you exit these oppression olympics YOU are accountable for your actions. No more “I have daddy issues” or “Black women are too angry”…it’s YOUR fault if you can’t blame anyone. We’ve been running in the oppression olympics so long idk if we would know what to do if we moved forward.

              • Racqs

                This I agree with 100%. It’s easy to debate about something(meaning, play the blame game) and run that horse to the glue factory and back, but when it comes to addressing our issues, taking responsibility, and changing things….. entirely new story.

            • http://www.wix.com/katwebb84/katwebb84 KitKatCuty84

              Well I want to move forward, that’s for dang sure.

              I think we’ve been in this stalemate for long enough. Perhaps the only way to move forward is if we do what MJ said and look at the “Man in the Mirror”. First one person gets fed up and does their own thing, then another, then another, and soon enough a large portion of the community has decided that we’ve wallowed enough and it’s time to make positive changes.

              I, for one, have made a change. I struggled with confidence and self-esteem when it came to my romantic life and ended up in some really brutal relationships. I got out of my last one and jumped into the casual sex/casual dating scene for a bit. I’ve found, however, that it’s not at all gratifying and even with the birth control pills (that we’re apparently “popping like tic tacs”) preventing kids, I wasn’t going anywhere. I was just marking time.

              Then I was ready to stop marking time, and felt trapped because of the dudes now, even the “good” ones, have gotten so used to getting away with casual sex/dating that hardly anyone is interested in more. I feel like I’m straight out of the 50s right now, talking about a “relationship”.

              My solution? Even though it’s the norm, I’m NOT going to settle for what dudes are offering if it’s not what I want. Sure, that DEFINITELY means I’m going to be alone, and I’ve been grappling with whether or not to get a cat for a while now, but going along with the wack status quo isn’t helping things and maybe if more folks are willing to be alone for the sake of their standards, more dudes will stand up to them.

              Of course, I might just end up getting that cat. But we shall see. :)

              • Sweet Sass

                Right, you can’t talk about a relationship with most guys. (And no, none of this beta, alpha, blah blah blah shit matters.) Most guys will not wanna hear the ‘relationship talk’ now or ever, if it is up to them.

        • Come on People

          No offence, but I didn’t see anything constructive about that conversation. It was full of stereotypes and generalizations. I remember reading the book “the conversation,” and it brought out this very thing. When black men and women have discussions about relationship issues and problems, we put the wait of the whole entire black community on their backs. When other cultures speak of relationships issues and problems, it is the person that they are with, they are not saying that all latino women are this or that, all white men ar this or that. That is where a lot of the problem lies. Learn to deal with the relationships that you are in try to understand what you and the other person did wrong, that is where constructive relationship conversations start; not with the over generalization of all black people. When you start with the over generalizations it releaves your responisibility in the decision making process.

        • http://www.awordorthree.com Crystal Marie

          lol at (pause)

      • http://www.pinchmycheekie.wordpress.com Cheekie

        “The fact that these conversations (real and imagined) happen is a sign of progress,”

        Agreed. It’s when we STOP communicating that it becomes a problem. However, we have to TRULY communicate. Not just state our side and close our ears (whilst singing la-la-la-la-la) when the other side presents their case.

        • Tentpole

          The progress comes when we actually solve the problem and not just find new ways to communicate our understanding of the problem

          • http://www.pinchmycheekie.wordpress.com Cheekie

            But you can’t even GET to the solving before you find a good way to communicate. You can’t just jump to the solution without fully assessing what the real problem is.

  • http://twitter.com/StepYoCupCakeUp Thy Alexander

    I tried to come up with an intelligent reply.
    But “Jack and Jill” just cracked me up with their debate and I’m still trying to collect my thoughts.

    • Ms.MangoButter

      Glad to see I’m not the only one. I just like how Steve Hawking has managed to make his way into another post.

      • http://iamyourpeople.com I Am Your People

        Ah, Jack and Jill. If sh*t really goes down, The Champ can write a post on a convo between a Mason and a member of OES.

        • http://uphereoncloud9.wordpress.com Wu Young, Agent of M.E.

          *walks out of lurkdom humming “Bout it, Bout it”*

          “The Champ can write a post on a convo between a Mason and a member of OES”
          Is this VSB’s first Eastern Star Mention?

          Shout out to the Eastern Stars for making funerals an extra 30 minutes longer with their elaborate hand gestures and sh*t too!

      • http://www.pinchmycheekie.wordpress.com Cheekie

        There is ALWAYS room for Steven Hawking. In fact, when Soulja Boy challenged everyone on Twitter to name a better freestyler than him, I replied, “Steven Hawking.”

        • keisha brown

          to the corner cheekie…

          • http://www.pinchmycheekie.wordpress.com Cheekie

            But I –

  • Nameless for Now

    ROFL!! Fooled again by your sarcasm!! I was so excited to hear from these “experts” and then when I read the opening sentence O_O

    I see the experts could come to no better conclusion than the rest of us VSB/Ss…and so the beat goes on…

    • Mo-VSS

      LOL, I knew when he said experts from YOUNGSTOWN, OH that it wasn’t gon be about nothing! LOL, I’m from that area and ain’t one expert on anything residing there. Yes, those are shots fired at my own!

      • chocolate milk

        I thought the same thing then breathed a sigh of relief that he didn’t say Akron.

      • ProfCourt

        I went to grad school in toledo, oh and when he said youngstown i also thought the same thing…… i was looking foward to reading something by experts on this topic though bcthis is def a conversation that happens.

        • Regular Brotha

          As a ninja from Toledo, hence my moniker, you can’t get much more reg’lar than Toledo. I come from a family of considerable dysfucntion so I could use that crutch if I just wanted to make excuses. I had my single life but somehow, I’ve been married to the same woman for 29 years. The following revelation must have been brewing in my subconscious for a long time before I became aware of it. At some point I became aware the within certain tolerances “p*ssy was all the same”. So it stopped being about the couchie and more, much more, about the woman the cookies were attached to. When I made this realization my decisions about women became clearer, better, more serious.

          That’s all I got…

          • Squeakdaddykane

            Thank you sir for dropping this knowledge.

          • http://www.ifiruled2011.wordpress.com Mahogany Princess

            Kudos to you Regular Brotha! You seemed to have figured it out. It’s not the quantity but the quality.

          • http://twitter.com/rpp1986 rpp1986

            +1

          • nillalatte

            I haven’t read anymore wise words on this blog. Kudos to you Regular Brotha.

    • Ivy St.

      As soon as I read Youngstown, Ohio I figured these weren’t t real experts. lol

  • http://eatreadrant-nadette.blogspot.com Nadette@Eat, Read, Rant!

    “do you realize that you’re trying to convince me that a man’s truest instinct is to run away from responsibilities they created? You do realize that, right?”<—–BOOM!

    • Come on People

      My only problem with that question is that many mothers will tell their sons that they do not need any woman but them. If they don’t say it in words, they say it in actions. So how are they going to learn to take responsibility if the very women that raise them don’t allow them to take responsibility. The first male/female relationship that a child learns from is with their oposite sex parent. If there is a break down there, it is hard to understand the connection between a good male/female relationship

      • http://www.theleftsidepoets.wordpress.com MicTheMessenger

        I blame Willie Lynch.

      • Squeakdaddykane

        I was going to point this out. That hypothetically one could “blame’ the women. Seeing as how a woman who gets knocked by a no good dude quite possibly raises no good sons which perpetuates the cycle. Yet when a man becomes grown its his responsibility to mature. Even if no one taught him anything. So both blames are equally correct and equally flawed.

        • DQ

          ****when a man becomes grown its his responsibility to mature. Even if no one taught him anything.****

          Exactly.

        • http://www.ifiruled2011.wordpress.com Mahogany Princess

          Get outta my head Squeakdaddykane! I say this all the time, regardless of what you’ve seen or been taught we innately know what is right from wrong so the blame lies with you for the decisions you make good or bad. Can’t blame it on your parents, how you were raised, or who you were with when it happened. People have got to take responsibility for their own actions.

      • Imperfect

        I think the flaw in this argument is that it’s true. A boy doesn’t NEED any woman other than his mother. But that shouldn’t stop him from growing up and being a man who leads his household. If his desire is to find a woman other than his mother, his responsibility to that woman trumps his “need”.

        When you start makin decisions that effect people other than yourself, your needs go out the window.

    • Siobhan

      “do you realize that you’re trying to convince me that a man’s truest instinct is to run away from responsibilities they created? You do realize that, right?”<—–BOOM!

      Helloooooo congress.

  • http://Tinawatkins.wordpress.com Tina watkins

    Great satire. :) I’m glad the men and women I call my beloved friends ar stalking about higher planes of spirituality on the pure end of the spectrum… Worrying about the world they’re bringing babies into on the other.

  • http://TalentedGeneration.blogspot.com LegallySouthern1

    “I think you know how to say that you want them. I think that you know that you’re supposed to want them. But, your actions don’t follow your words.”

    Dang Jack did ya have to call us out like that, doe? I’m afraid to admit I agree with him because so many women claim they want a good man but settle for a 1/2 man hoping he becomes something more. On the other hand, its not fair to place all the blame on the women for choosing trifling kneegrows when so many of them exist and hide it so well.

    • http://twitter.com/#!/mizzcamille MizzCam

      +1

    • xLadyTx

      +2

      • LA Red

        “so many women claim they want a good man but settle for a 1/2 man hoping he becomes something more” – but you also get blamed when you don’t give a man a chance.

        • http://panamaenrique.wordpress.com Malik

          I’m almost 10000% sure that when men say ‘potential’ and when women her ‘potential’ they are talking about two completely different things.

          • Mo-VSS

            Elaborate please and thank you.

            • http://panamaenrique.wordpress.com Malik

              Like the Chris Brown and Joe Buddens of the world. Chronic cheaters. Men with anger problems. Habitual liars. Multiple children by multiple women (that they visit every other month). Basically all types of emotional and behaviorally damaged men that have things that ‘look good on paper’ like a good-great job, good looking, etc.

              Guys usually men dudes that are like blue collar workers. Guys that still have student loans. Average looking guys who aren’t stacked or will be stacked in the future. Geeks. Socially awkward dudes. Etc.The important caveat to all of this is that they must be well adjusted human beings.

              • Sweet Sass

                IDK, I’ve met a ton of guys who are blue collar workers who also have a string of baby mamas.

                You want women to check geeks or fuglies. That’ll happen when I see men checking female geeks/awkwards/fugs.

                In other words, when pigs fly.

                • http://jouromeo.blogspot.com Sagey Bear

                  I thought you heard, Pig Flu in ’09. Get with the times baby. Now pick the dweeb with the pimples. Hold up. All the dudes that get passed over don’t look equivalent to all the women that get passed over. Plus, I get passed over by the ugly busted Bettys of the World, not the awesomely pretty Prescillas.

                  Do you know what it feels like to get dissed by an ugly, out of shape and under intelligent person? Yeah, that’s how I feel. You’ll have to take my word for it.

                  • Sweet Sass

                    Did you feel that way about her BEFORE or AFTER she rejected you?

                    Cus’ on one side of a come on… I’m “gorgeous” with “supple lips” and “soft hair” but when I’m not having it… suddenly it’s “HEY b*tch, you UGLY anyway… you got FAT ankles!”

                    • http://jouromeo.blogspot.com Sagey Bear

                      My thoughts were of a subtle yet joking nature. Self deprecating and simple.
                      I don’t get rejected because I don’t approach with intentions. I just talk with people. When women try to reject me, I laugh because I’m not a pick you up to smang kind of guy. Too L7 for that.

                    • http://www.wildcougarconfessions.com Wild Cougar

                      Tell it!!!

                  • http://twitter.com/MOTRenaissance Adonis (@MOTRenaissance)

                    @Sagey Bear

                    3s & 4s reject like 9s & 10s now…

                    fatties strike back

                    • Yoles

                      @ Adonis.. Why you gotta try to those MY people under the bus?!?! I’m sexy & a catch fat & all…hmpf

                    • http://twitter.com/MOTRenaissance Adonis (@MOTRenaissance)

                      @Yoles

                      You know the rules…

                      I am talking to everybody in the world except those who read this blog… :-)

                    • http://jouromeo.blogspot.com Sagey Bear

                      Adonis, my brotha…you are a freakin fool for that….That was an epic save.
                      Think the Kevin Hart, when the creepy guy saves the drunk girl from fallin by grabbin her b00bs. “Did ya see that, I caught her by her b00bs….”:

                      You a smooth criminal.

                  • Regular Brotha

                    Sagey, I know the ladies around here are always giving each other kudos and e-dap. I remain secure in my manhood when I say, I llike they way you write.

                    • http://jouromeo.blogspot.com Sagey Bear

                      Yup yup, bro. You ain’t even had to say all that to give props. Man, it is understood.
                      But it says a tremendous amount about yourself and what you’ve been through that you can understand what I’m throwing out there.
                      You clearly ain’t no regulah brotha. lol

                      Keep doin what you do fam.

                • Ivy St.

                  “You want women to check geeks or fuglies. That’ll happen when I see men checking female geeks/awkwards/fugs.”

                  I agree. This just shows both sides are looking for something they aren’t. I always think men and women should date within a standard deviation of what they bring to the table. Granted there is no real ranking system, folks just need to be honest with who they are and who they can attract.

                • k-steez

                  yeah sweet sass, but he wasn’t saying that blue collar workers don’t have the other problems (i.e. baby mama drama). his point was that when women say potential, they may believe a guys behaviors/character will change. whereas when men say potential, they mean the guys already a good dude with some morals and sense, but his situation (salary, style of dress, etc.) may improve in the future.

              • http://www.wildcougarconfessions.com Wild Cougar

                I give those guys a chance 24/7. They turn out to be very emotionally unstable, due to all the p*ssy they didn’t get. They turn psycho on you in a minute.

                • Come on People

                  I agree with you Wild Cougar…lol. One of my fb friend is a guy that i went to school with that i for the life of me can’t remember from school. Good conversation, however, he has serious issues with women. But it has everything to do with him being such a mudduck…lol.

                • TrackStar

                  Thank You. Men don’t really deal with their emotions, so you are going to run into problems on both ends of the spectrum. The popular guy becomes arrogant bc all of the attention he gets and the geek/regular guy becomes bitter with a vengeance because of the lack of attention. I think that some women feel like the former is easier to deal with or reform than the latter.

                • http://www.wix.com/katwebb84/katwebb84 KitKatCuty84

                  Too true. I hate arrogant dudes, but I also hate geeks/awkward dudes with chips on their shoulder about their pussc-less past. They’d rather have a debate with you than realize that the whole reason you came over was so they could ask you out.

                  I’ll pass.

              • http://panamaenrique.wordpress.com Malik

                Apparently no on that responded to me read the bold part. I didn’t say nor imply dudes that fall into those categories are automatically emotionally stable.

                • http://jouromeo.blogspot.com Sagey Bear

                  I like how you seemed to be prescient on the feminine ability to disregard certain aspects of the dialogue and respond with talking points like…Republicans.(See what I did there? Yassss)

                  • http://www.wildcougarconfessions.com Wild Cougar

                    Like the male ability to take an isolated incident and generalize it to all women. Frustrating, ain’t it?

                    • http://panamaenrique.wordpress.com Malik

                      In our defense, we’re dumb. I mean have you seen our graduation rate! ;)

                    • http://jouromeo.blogspot.com Sagey Bear

                      IDK about anybody else but you really should consider sharing nicer things. Right now, the you I see is not a good look. Not a joke. Not at all.

                    • http://www.wildcougarconfessions.com Wild Cougar

                      Sagey, how bout you have a drink, a deep breath, a walk, a good cry, whatever it takes. It sounds like you need something. I won’t take anything you say personally.

                    • http://jouromeo.blogspot.com Sagey Bear

                      WC……really?

          • http://www.twitter.com/drrdb TWIsM

            I agree Malik. I think when men think of a woman’s potential they think negative. Like what’s her potential to gain 50 lbs. after we say “I Do” or how prone is she to losing her damn mind and ending up on Snapped. Whereas, when women view potential they think more positively about “What a man could one day be if he’s given enough encouragement and direction… [by me].” Basically a “Can I fix him?” view of potential. and men get slapped with the Capt. Save-A-Ho3 label

            • A Woman’s Eyes

              I agree too.

            • Ivy St.

              ” how prone is she to losing her damn mind and ending up on Snapped.”
              lol

    • http://panamaenrique.wordpress.com Malik

      It most be a woman thing. I can’t imagine spending at most 10 minutes with any kneegrow and not knowing whether or not he is trifling.

      • http://www.comeupchicago.com Shogun

        agree malik, I can tell right away if a negro is trifling. I think that is why its so confusing when chicks are like “I thought he was a good guy” and I’m just wondering how

        • Mo-VSS

          Please. Women can spot out other trife women but y’all (men) keep with the “shock and awe” mentality when you finally find out (usually the hard way).

          • Deeds

            +1

          • http://www.theleftsidepoets.wordpress.com MicTheMessenger

            i think both parties tend to wear blinders on PURPOSE. Benefit of the doubt, maybe. But other times we just don’t wanna admit the person is trifling because of one or two other things that they got goin. It’s not hard to spot a trifling male OR female.

            It is hard, however, to give yourself a reality check when the dream is just so damn good.

            • http://www.wix.com/katwebb84/katwebb84 KitKatCuty84

              They’re trying to be “living the dream” like “Wedding Crashers”.

              I must agree that ALL of my most evil vindictive, manipulative female friends STAY having THREE OR FOUR dudes chasing after them.

              The nice ones spend hours at the gym or working late, or trying to distract themselves with hobbies, and having a circle discussion with their girls about what gives with their empty call logs.

              Hence literature like “Men Love Bishes”, etc.

              • Kema

                Hmmm… lol! sounds like me. I am always trying to find a new hobby. But I wonder if thats why there is an empty call log. Too busy perhaps?

                • http://www.theleftsidepoets.wordpress.com MicTheMessenger

                  Nope. I think you can be found while doin what you love. At least you know the guy will love it too.

                  Notice I said “be found”.

                  • http://www.wix.com/katwebb84/katwebb84 KitKatCuty84

                    I DID notice you said “found”, and I’m OK with that. I’ve recently realized that you can’t apply the same drive and ambition that you do in school or work to your love life. It doesn’t work like that. It’s infuriating, but it just doesn’t. You just gotta lay back in the cut for a while sometimes.

                    People act like it’s always the women doing the choosing. Maybe in the beginning. When we “choose” to talk back when you approach, or “choose” to give you our number, but I’m pretty sure the man “chose” to approach us first, and in the end, if the man doesn’t “choose” to commit, you’re in a slow boat to nowhere.

                    • http://www.theleftsidepoets.wordpress.com MicTheMessenger

                      I thnk it gets infuriating for all of us at some point. Down post, Monday said it best: You just gotta be happy with who you are first. Work on yourself and love that person. I’m kinda strange, but i honestly believe that God won’t realy allow us to happily be with someone until we’re completely in touch and comfortbale with ourselves (him too, of course). When we accomplish that (which ain’t easy), i think the opposite sex can kinda sense that. Even if no one ever does, at least by then it won’t be paramount in our lives.

                      But then again, i realize that i am a man, and man’s love is life, and a woman’s life is love. -Phonte Coleman

              • RG

                In my experience, the women you’re referring to that “distract themselves with hobbies” have horrible (read: dry) personalities. The bottomline and I suppose it cuts both ways when talking about guys as well is there are a limited number of candidates that are attractive, intelligent, witty, but down to earth enough to kick it at the hole in the wall joint around the corner. Is that an unrealistic combination? Maybe, but most guys I know would be willing to relax the physical requirement for the other characteristics. Then again depending on the guy, he might be willing and able to wait for the unicorn. There arent many out there, but I’ve seen them, and more often than not they’re married.

                i think women do a poor job of objectively assesing their worth in the dating market. They listen to their other single girls way too much. Same goes for a lot of guys. Perfect example, when I was in law school all of the women were intelligent (given), but their personalities were lacking (read: sucked), but they had this attitude like we should be together just because we were in the same place.They didnt realize that they were lame as hell because they hung around each other telling each other how great they were. Circle discussions are the begining of the end. Men and women overvalue themselves….a lot.

                As for the evil vindictive, manipulative female friends having THREE OR FOUR dudes chasing them? Chances are those guys are simps anyway. Then again playing devils advocate, sometimes those women seem more fun/down to earth (believe it or not). I think what happens is the women you say are working late/gym/etc. come across as tightly wound and stuck up because they have a chip on their shoulder like someone above referred to about faux nice guys. Bottomline, women who think their “personalities” are so great oftentimes lack what men are really looking for.

                • http://www.wix.com/katwebb84/katwebb84 KitKatCuty84

                  I think the issue is really that a lot of dudes don’t care about personality. When you are just looking to hook up, looks and body are the bottom line and those mean girls have that down pat. Also, when you’re just looking to hook up, certain personality types are going to come off as difficult, even if they’ve got tons of friends in the world and the people think she’s a joy to be around. Dude just doesn’t want to handle all that other “stuff” when he’s looking to hook up. Simple is key in hooking up.

                  I’m just glad you said that your generalizations about most single women thinking too highly of themselves and actually not being appealing to men for their “bad personalities” apply to men as well. ‘Cause I’m on the other side of that ridge and staying single is more appealing than dating some of these dudes who act like they’re “God’s gift”.

                  • RG

                    I agree with your point on hooking up. It’s funny, I just had this conversation with a woman this past weekend. We were talking about the difference between men’s issues and women’s issues. My argument was that when it comes to men, we tend to know a good woman when we see one, but in our youth we just choose not to settle down until we’re ready. Women want to settle down earlier, IMO, but seem not to know what to look for in a good man until they’re older and have been through two or three Leons, Pookies, or RayRays.

                    • https://www.facebook.com/KatWebb1984 KitKatCuty84

                      What good would it do to know anyway, if the “good” men have no interest in settling down?

                      I, myself, am very aware (and have been), of the men I would like to settle down with, but I don’t see them around, or if I do, they aren’t open for anything of depth.

                      So yeah, what good would it do even if women knew what they want (and I think a lot more do than men like to think)?

                    • http://twitter.com/MOTRenaissance Adonis (@MOTRenaissance)

                      @KitKatCuty84 @RG

                      Women want to settle down earlier, IMO, but seem not to know what to look for in a good man until they’re older and have been through two or three Leons, Pookies, or RayRays.

                      Sometimes it is too late…

                      @KitKatCuty84

                      Good men reserve the right not to settle down just women reserve the right to sleep with whomever…

                      There are men willing to marry you, but you don’t want them… so it is what it is…

              • http://www.twitter.com/ElleMarie360 L_Marie

                +1

        • http://www.twitter.com/drrdb TWIsM

          EXACTLY! Admittedly sometimes (not often) but sometimes even I’m caught off guard by some some dudes’ actions, but 98 times out of 100 I with throw the side eye to a chick like “You really didn’t see that coming? Are we even talmbout the same ninja? The one with 3 kids and 2 baby mommas livin’ at his momma’s house… you didn’t think he’d mess up? Okay, then….”

          • http://www.wix.com/katwebb84/katwebb84 KitKatCuty84

            “’You really didn’t see that coming? Are we even talmbout the same ninja? The one with 3 kids and 2 baby mommas livin’ at his momma’s house… you didn’t think he’d mess up? Okay, then….’”

            I think this is part of it, too. There’s not sympathy when something goes wrong for someone else. It’s always this type of sarcasm or finger-pointing or I-told-you-so. Never, “Wow, that sucks. How can we make sure that doesn’t happen again.”

            Even if you can’t imagine how the mistake might happen, or you don’t agree with the original choice, I think sympathy might go farther than derision. At least, in MY opinion…

        • http://www.wildcougarconfessions.com Wild Cougar

          Because men make it a full time job, plus overtime and hobby to hide their trifling qualities when they are with a woman they want to smash. Duh!

          • http://www.theleftsidepoets.wordpress.com MicTheMessenger

            Women still got us on the sneak tip, though. I’ve never met a man sneakier than a woman. It’s like yall born with it or something.

            I don’t even think the issue is that guys are trife. I think the problem is that we always get caught.

            • LSQ

              In my bad boy days, I collected a loooong list of married/engaged sisters on my belt (Gawd forgive me). Y’all are real gud at sneaking – y’all can do it in plain sight. And yet we men somehow are the only trifling ones? It takes two to trifle yo!

              But that was then – this is now.

            • Kema

              You’ve never met a man sneakier than a woman because men reserve all their sneaky for women.

      • http://twitter.com/#!/Mailuv7 Mailuv7

        +1
        All the as*holes I’ve dealt with showed their as* I just chose to overlook it at that moment because it was inconvenient.

        • LA Red

          Agreed. It’s just very disheartening when you can pick up on the bullsh*t across from a sucka on the first date. Le sigh.

          • miss t-lee

            I actually prefer that they show the bullsh*t early, that way I know that I can exit stage left quickly.

        • Justmetheguy

          Mad props to Mailuv7 for admitting what most women WILL NOT admit. When you really like one side of the equation you tend to ignore the other side. It’s part of life. Women tend to be a little worse at it than men because many of the things they want in a man are incongruent (ie an alpha male that is dominant but won’t dominate them…except in the bedroom when they want him to…) Plus you can’t help who you’re attracted to, but you can justify it…(shrugs)

      • Humble_One

        @Malik

        I don’t get it either. I’ve been around some dudes and can tell he isn’t about ish pretty quickly. I think women have a hard time because they think “if he has characteristics 1,2, and 3 so he must be a good guy”. It amazes me how some women have a zero sum, black and white, ideology about what makes a good guy. It doesn’t make since to me to think “he is like A so he must be like B”.

        • Kema

          I will admit… I fall for this all the time. Especially if a guy is nerdy. I automatically think he is a ‘nice guy’. Then find out that there are many other women that thought the same thing… at the same time. I’m working on it!

    • keisha brown

      i agree with this… partially.

      how many times are women told to stop chasing the dude already at the top of his game because every other woman is chasing him, and give a chance to the brotha with potential? hell…now even flotus is being used against us…

      so..like i’ve said many times before..dammed if we do..dammed if we dont.

      i want us ALL to do better.
      *goes to plank in bed.

      • http://www.twitter.com/drrdb TWIsM

        KB, if you’re going to give a guy with “potential” a chance, discuss him with a close male friend/relative or gay shoe shopping buddy to find out how much (if any) “Ain’t Sh!t-ness” he has. I truly think you ladies start mistaking pocket lint for potential when you look too hard.

        • NinaFontaine

          #DEAD @ gay shoe shopping buddy and “Ain’t Sh!t-ness” ….. OH AND pocket lint for potential

        • CurlyTop

          I think I read a Clutchmag article about this last week. The whole Mr. and Mrs. Obama thing. How she gave him a chance, blah blah blah. My a$s. They were LAWYERS not working at McDonalds like Calvin.

          • http://www.twitter.com/drrdb TWIsM

            Right??? LIke Michelle was sitting on the phone with her girlfriends like “Yeah, this dude from Harvard Law School is tryna holla at me, girl. I mean he aight and all, maybe I’ll give him a chance…”

            #GTFOH

            • http://twitter.com/#!/NewYork2VA NY2VA

              Thing is, she did feel like that. She had some serious preconceived notions abut who he was straight out of the gate and had already made up her mind that she was not going to like him. She said, “I had dated a lot of brothers who had this kind of reputation coming in, so I figured he was one of these smooth brothers who could talk straight and impress people. So we had lunch, and he had this bad sport jacket and a cigarette dangling from his mouth, and I thought: ‘Oh, here you go. Here’s this good-looking, smooth-talking guy. I’ve been down this road before.’ ” She assumed that because of the hype that preceded him, that he was going to be a cocky a$$hole and she wanted no parts of it. You know as well as I do that people who run in Ivy League circles are not automatically impressed by fellow Ivy Leaguers. That ish was NOT automatic.

              • http://www.wix.com/katwebb84/katwebb84 KitKatCuty84

                Every single one of the fellow Ivy-League dudes I’ve dated has been a d-bag. Like, a MAJOR d-bag. The ones that settled down with a chick that they met in school are OK, because they both came up at the same time and in the same school, probably in the same social circles. But once dudes GRADUATE from an Ivy-League, they think they have the “cream of the crop” stamp and can’t nobody tell them NOTHIN’, not even someone who did the SAME DANG THING at another Ivy League. I seriously almost shy away from fellow Ivy-Leaguers now.

          • LA Red

            I read that same article CurlyTop. For real….how much of a risk did she take? The man had a law degree from Harvard. While I’m sure POTUS was at the top of the list, what was the least he was gonna do…be a successful lawyer? Not much of a sacrifice.

            • http://www.theleftsidepoets.wordpress.com MicTheMessenger

              You say this like lawyers can’t be trifling.

              • http://www.wildcougarconfessions.com Wild Cougar

                At least half, if not most of the lawyers I know are emotionally unstable. I’ I’m sitting next to a pathological liar right now.

              • LA Red

                Not what I meant at all. Anyone at any given time can be trifling.

          • A Woman’s Eyes

            I hope for Calvin’s sake that he owns several McDonalds franchises by now lol

        • http://mansbestgirlfriend.blogspot.com/ Mans Best Girlfriend

          I usually lurk but I had to agree with this. If my little brother or one of my many “brothers” give a dude the side eye, he usually ain’t sh!t. Some men are good at hiding their ain’t sh!tness but most of the time we as women see the red flags, we just choose to ignore them.

          • http://twitter.com/itztrizz617 herbetteroption

            *cues Love is Blind instrumental*

            Part of it is she simply doesnt see it, part of it she doesnt want to see it. The sad truth is most relationships that ended in 3 years could’ve/should’ve ended in 1 but they just dont know how to let go. No one wants to be single anymore thus they settle.

            • Ivy St.

              “The sad truth is most relationships that ended in 3 years could’ve/should’ve ended in 1 but they just dont know how to let go. No one wants to be single anymore thus they settle.”

              Sure, no one wants to be single. As someone who has carried on a relationship or 2 waaay longer than I should have, it wasn’t really about being single. It was more about admitting that I had failed. Failed because *I* couldn’t make them work. I saw the red flags but figured I could fix them. As I get older, it is clear that all relationships aren’t meant to be.

        • keisha brown

          absolutely dr facebottom.
          but when you feel like that’s all you are being offered…sometimes pocket lint is better than the ache of loneliness. even for a little bit.

          i will never hold anyone responsible for my dating choices. they are mine.
          however, what i will say is that i cannot be held responsible for making a decision based on a lie. if you misrepresent yourself to me, that is more on you than myself. all i did was go with the information that i had. if i dont trust you at your word, what am i doing dating in the 1st place. trust is only earned if it’s been broken.

          • Justmetheguy

            ” if i dont trust you at your word, what am i doing dating in the 1st place. trust is only earned if it’s been broken.”

            That’s how I used to feel (still do to some degree) till I got burned by a couple of chicks (some of it was my fault too). Now I have trust issues just like the single women out here…sigh. The saga continues I guess.

            • RG

              Can’t let a woman affect your ability to trust though. Just chalk it up as lesson learned. Reality is dating/relationships are just hard. If you think about it, you have two people, oftentimes from different backgrounds, different socializations, different morals trying to mesh in an intimate partnership. The odds are really stacked against success. Value systems are jacked out here in the game. I mean people are really f*cked up. These women think “Single Ladies” and “The Game” are reality. Smh. There’s still some real sistas out here, but it’s like sifting for gold, you gotta pick through a lot of dirt and sh*t before you find that nugget..real talk.

              • Justmetheguy

                Real talk indeed. I don’t let it make me bitter, but I tend to use the whole “Fool me once, shame on you. Fool me twice shame on me” adage, but in reality they didn’t fool me at all, it was other women. It’s not fair, so I usually do let them earn my trust eventually, it’s just not a given anymore like it used to be. You’re right though, the odds really are stacked against a relationship working.

    • DQ

      **** its not fair to place all the blame on the women for choosing trifling kneegrows ****

      Not that you said this in your post, but It’s always interesting to me to hear women (generally) say they should not be held responsible for their choice in men.

      Like how can you NOT be responsible for YOUR choice? Just a general question out loud for anyone to answer.

      • Mo-VSS

        Our choices in men are our fault for what we deal with on a personal level. That does not mean that those choices are THEE SOLE REASON for the continued decline of our community. I think that’s what annoys most women. It’s the same reasoning that extremist Muslims use to control their women. “You must keep covered to control the lusts/sexual desires of men”…that whole line of thinking is based on women being the gatekeepers of…sh*t, I don’t know what exactly. But the entire onus is on us…that’s not fair or right.

        Ain’t sh*t men will continue to make kids and leave them, regardless of who they make them with. Yes, part of this issue is with women making better choices. But, another pat of the issue is men not engaging in behaviors that lead to fatherhood if they truly aren’t ready or don’t want that responsibility. It’s two fold…no way around that.

        • DQ

          ****But, another pat of the issue is men not engaging in behaviors that lead to fatherhood if they truly aren’t ready or don’t want that responsibility. It’s two fold…no way around that.****

          I don’t necessarily disagree with this. I would just be surprised to see/hear women giving men a pass for his choice to sleep with a woman simply because it turned out she was crazy.

          If we all have to be accountable for our choices… let’s ALL be accountable for our choices.

          • Deeds

            How often do men get blamed for their choices in choosing a trifling woman. Usually, she will get called every name but a child of God, but won’t take responsiblity for sleeping with/being with her.

            • http://www.wildcougarconfessions.com Wild Cougar

              Preach!

            • DQ

              ****How often do men get blamed for their choices in choosing a trifling woman.****

              Daily… maybe even hourly… especially if she gets pregnant. Not a thing is said about the crazy chick, the standard line is, “well you need to be more discerning with who you sleep with”. There is no empathy or absolution. Am I truly alone in this observation?

            • RG

              Banana Cream Pie!!

          • http://www.pinchmycheekie.wordpress.com Cheekie

            “If we all have to be accountable for our choices… let’s ALL be accountable for our choices.”

            True enough. But, ya know how I know we’ll never be able to come to agreement as to “who’s to blame?” in hetereosexual relationships? Because neither side knows what’s it’s like to deal with their own kind. Only men know what it’s truly like to deal with a woman, and only women know what it’s truly like to deal with a man. Like, you can’t really call bullsh*t on either claim because, well… how do you know?!

            I say we hit up the homosexual community for an accurate analysis. Like for real, they have an interesting perspective because they have an idea of how to deal with someone who shares their gender/sex.

            • DQ

              I actually have had a lesbian tell me (over the ninja nets not in real person) that she feels sorry for men, cause she knows what it’s like to deal with women (she was the masculine lesbian in the relationship)

              Of course that is a single anectdote and obviously statistically meaningless. If we did do a survey I bet what you’d find is that the more masculine of the same sex couples would probably identify with the men’s POV and the more feminine of the same sex couple would identify with the women’s POV.

              • http://www.pinchmycheekie.wordpress.com Cheekie

                “If we did do a survey I bet what you’d find is that the more masculine of the same sex couples would probably identify with the men’s POV and the more feminine of the same sex couple would identify with the women’s POV.”

                Good point, but that’s only assuming the couples would be that sort of a pairing (masculine/feminine… well at least enough to label them in each category). Which all of them aren’t… so it’ll be interesting to see the variables.

        • http://jouromeo.blogspot.com Sagey Bear

          You know Mo, that is just the thing. Women aren’t given all the responsibility. They are given all the responsibility of a given realm. Why? Psh, I have no idea why traditionally it seemed like it was alright to saddle things that way. I don’t think that the old school way of doing things is alright….but I should need to say that….I mean, shhh, I am Sagey Bear. Point is, if we can isolate a reasoning for it, be it prejudice or ignorance or an actual f*ccinreason then all the better to know how to deal with it.

          What ever, this conversation is a powder keg and attempting rational progressions isn’t going to get my HALF PICTURE seeing behind anywhere.
          You know we are all tools, slaves to the machine. Look at 2520, he a GOP but don’t benefit from nothing GOP do. SLAVES.

          If it ain’t too late, it’s too little or both. LMG(Loading my guns)

        • http://twitter.com/MOTRenaissance Adonis (@MOTRenaissance)

          @Mo-VSS

          I blame women because they want to be seen & treated as adults… Until she makes a poor choice… Then it is some man’s fault…

          Now if she entertained some dude at the advice of her father & friend, she might have a case… (Basically leaving her choice up to another person/male)

          F*ck who you want…Just make sure your kid has a responsible father in his life…

          • Humble_One

            @Adonis (@MOTRenaissance)

            “I blame women because they want to be seen & treated as adults… Until she makes a poor choice… Then it is some man’s fault… ”

            Man, if this isn’t true. I’ve watch women give to the bummest of bum ninjas willingly and then blame him. As if she made it hard for him. You don’t hear too many bum ninjas complain about not getting women.

            “Now if she entertained some dude at the advice of her father & friend, she might have a case… (Basically leaving her choice up to another person/male)”

            Cosign.

          • http://www.wildcougarconfessions.com Wild Cougar

            Adonis, dearheart. The extensive time you have obviously spent reading, digesting and internalizing the 2520 manblogs has done you damage. It. May feel good to write what you do, but please know that much of the things they espouse are like the lie/truth told to Eve. You will not surely die. It is a lie wrapped in anger, wrapped in logic, masquerading as truth. But it tastes good to those whose tongues have been burned by rejection. The only flavor they recognize is bitter. I beg you to get some help. Be it a girlfriend, counselor, sport, journal, something. Because if you continue this way, you will be a very, very sad and lonely old man.

            • Sweet Sass

              He is only 23 years old and think he has everything figured out.

              • http://jouromeo.blogspot.com Sagey Bear

                is that any different from being 55 and thinking you have everything figured out?

                Last time I checked age meant very little relevant. Young Bill Gates, Young Jay-z, Young Oprah. These are who built empires not old versions of themselves. So, You want to bring his age against him again? Because that is pure malarkey as evidence of lack.

                Who N -D -L -R -U?

                • http://www.wildcougarconfessions.com Wild Cougar

                  Sagey, are you a little sensitive today? If I had some chocolate to give you, or maybe I can smush my boobies in your face….

                  • http://jouromeo.blogspot.com Sagey Bear

                    I’m good, thanx though.

                    I feel like I just pointed out some real sh!t for y’all.

                    Age is irrelevant. Intelligence waxes and wanes.

                    There are endless ideals and perspectives on it but all that needs to be acknowledged is that some people are hot all the time and other people always need to warm up.

                    Whether he is young or old, if he’s hot,…he’s hot!

                    But the talking points are a detracting factor. I don’t want your boobies in my face or nothing like that. I’m not freaky. I’m a straight L7 and I own it to the fullest.

                    Matter of fact, Og humble is holding down the 1.5′s, Panama is holding down the 3 spot but I…I got the L7′s on lock.

                    L7′s do not do freaky thangs. With freaky people because L7′s are afraid of every std ever created. Based on held knowledge,

                    Now, I’m at the point where I lose coherency so instead of piecing it all together…I’ll simply trail off….

                    like…

                    whoa….

                    L7 Say Gee

            • http://twitter.com/MOTRenaissance Adonis (@MOTRenaissance)

              @Wild Cougar

              At 40+, I must commend you for the extraordinary shame tactics you use on me… A lesser man might wince at the suggestions you post… But even at 23 & ripe for your picking, I know better, and my job is to let men know how to choose & enjoy better women….

              If that means leaving Most black women to ride the poles of thugs & badboys, so be it…

              They get the men they always wanted…

              Because if you continue this way, you will be a very, very sad and lonely old man.

              I came alone in this world, & I plan on leaving the same way :-)

              • http://www.wildcougarconfessions.com Wild Cougar

                @Sagey and Adonis. What I was offering was my best version of loving concern. Maybe I’m not the best at conveying that online. But it was love. For the both of you. Not trying to insult or shame you. But you both seem to be in pain. I wish the best for you. I wish I could hug it away. It’s the frustrated mama in me. Forgive me if I was rude in my delivery. But the hate you seem to be spewing is not gonna reach me from where you sit. Because I can see all the pain behind it. Besos.

                • http://jouromeo.blogspot.com Sagey Bear

                  Adonis

                  As men, it is very hard for us to be old and lonely. Not only do women live longer but there are more women. That is nothing you need to worry about, ever. You already display some very well adjusted behavior responses to decent personal insult. Homie, you legit…keep doing you like only you know how.

                  Wild Cougar

                  I’m amazed at you. With you. Somehow, you read my sadness in a way that even I have yet to perceive. Now, if I’m sensitive today, then I should be able to feel every which way I been feeling. If I’m snappy, then why haven’t you been cursed out?

                  Oh, let us not get Say Gee confused with a chump…average nor frustrated. You couldn’t handle holding my fork. I see your pain and raise you H3ll on the eye of a needle.
                  The World been straining my neck since before I realized my neck was bent. Now, chasing down my every word isn’t going to stop anybody from finding anything of value in them. Just like my words aren’t going to limit how many bitter women relate to yourn.

                  The point is not to look thirsty for my attention and right now, if you ctrl+f my name, your name is always right behind. I……..WONDER…….WHY????

                  • http://twitter.com/MOTRenaissance Adonis (@MOTRenaissance)

                    @Sagey

                    Man, I have been teased & insulted since for as long as I can remember… You know how it is being a beta black nerd…

                    It’s build character tho…

                • http://twitter.com/MOTRenaissance Adonis (@MOTRenaissance)

                  @WC

                  It is well appreciated, but unnecessary… I prefer to stick to the points…

                  Before you can be my mom… We would have to sleep together a few times FIRST…

                  Then I am all ears to receive all the motherly love & advice I can handle…

                  Enjoy…

                  • http://www.wildcougarconfessions.com Wild Cougar

                    No dear, you’ve already shown you can’t handle me, so it would be no fun for me. But thanks for the offer. The fact that Sagey would insinuate an std in polite conversation shows he can’t handle himself, let alone me. I was showing concern for his sad state today, nothing more. Self flattery noted, however. Have fun with that, I’l be having fun with men.

                    • http://twitter.com/MOTRenaissance Adonis (@MOTRenaissance)

                      @WC
                      I agree… I need go younger anyway, I just wanted to speed up my s*xual learning curve…

                      You should have your young men report on what it is like to be with a legendary black cougar… Their perspective would be awesome…

                    • http://jouromeo.blogspot.com Sagey Bear

                      Like I said before ” Sometimes age comes alone”

                      Leave me be.

                      If you are so good at handling men, then why have you any complaints at all.

                      Notice I have ‘nary a complaint about women in my personal life. I don’t talk trash about WOMEN. If I have anything of a rebuffing nature, it is about what you say.

                      Don’t believe me? Go back and read it without your bitter lenses on.

                      FOH & Go SYAD. on 1.

                      Seriously. Go read them again. Seriously go check the time stamps. Seriously. LOL

                      Because this time. Your ploy to make me seem sad is far from true. Why did I let you draw me into this silliness? Why did I bite on this dried up old bone?

                      Am I that much on my sleeve? No.

                      I see now…it is because I’m taking you seriously. I shouldn’t do that.

                      I don’t see you either. TIME STAMP. There is a reason I keep repeating it. lol

                • Justmetheguy

                  @Wild Cougar- I’ll take the boobies! lol

                  Really though. It’s not that serious ppl. We all want love and sex. Let’s figure out how to get it without all the fighting and finger pointing in the meantime…whaddaya say?

                  • http://www.wildcougarconfessions.com Wild Cougar

                    For real, tho

                  • http://jouromeo.blogspot.com Sagey Bear

                    Justmetheguy

                    She is the female Obsidian. Using obfuscation in all arguments that aren’t solidified by someone else’s logic. Basically, she co-signs and bullshats all over the place.

                    You say no need to point fingers? You right…I’m just telling her to btfu…she is vsb stalkin me. Everywhere I go, I see the same wild cougar yo.

                    As for Adonis, you trying to say he ain’t justified in his response? Dude played that fairly well. She needs to stop launchin at cats like she the US of A. We all play bully in our minds.In mine, I’m the biggest most arrogant. How about you in yours?

                    • http://enterknight.blogspot.com/ Misty Knight

                      Sage Like really? Seriously you’re tweakin. You’ve initiated as much contact with WC as she has with you, if not more and in large part have incited more provocation. Even when she wasn’t directly addressing you.Beyond what she wrote down thread, she really hasn’t came for you like that.
                      I’m gonna try not to choke off the irony and hypocrisy of you praising that comic book ace ni@@a who steadfastly refuses to assign males with any responsibility, while inaccurately accusing WC of dabbling in Obsidian like obscenities. I am not sure why bluntly spoken women draw some much ire from you. But the whole ordeal has been bizarre to watch.

                    • http://jouromeo.blogspot.com Sagey Bear

                      Mk

                      At first I was taken aback by your defense of her. Look at the time stamps.
                      Know that she has intentionally done this.

                      I have a witness besides that anyways. Another VSS. I’m not making this up…matter of fact I’ve been going back and forth about it all day. I have text messages. You are seeing what you want. Now that that is finished.

                      Bluntly spoken women don’t speak BLUNTLY for NO REASON.

                      If I’m responding to anything it is the same cues that you take in responding to me.

                      But to say that I’m praising O. is wrong. I drew a comparison between the two because I’ve argued with both. At length mind you.
                      Barring that I’m completely incompetent with arguments. Which, simply cannot be possible given my personal history with understanding. What you are basically saying is that what I offer is preposterous at best.

                      What I offer to you is that you neither Know what is going on Nor should you have stuck you nose into a battle that you had no part of. But aside from how you seemingly over looked the COPIOUS SHADES she has been throwing at not only men younger than her BUT MEN IN GENERAL, I’m simply going to lump you in with the BBB(Bureau of Bitter Broads).

                      I’m not about to go back and forth with you….I actually thought you were joking earlier….egg on my face….you seriously have an issue. Thanks for clarifying.

                      I don’t see you.

        • Aisha

          I read an article, think it was on Good Men Project, and it talked about how the price for sex is very low these days. Back in the 50′s, 60′s, and 70′s the price of sex was a wedding and prior to that time period most men had to be able to offer a dowry (I know some Muslim cultures still do this). Nowadays, the price of sex is a happy meal and a smile. Basically, women will open their legs for $3.99. The article concluded that if women were tired of men jumping from women to women, then we need to collectively raise the price of sex. Why wait for a woman who requires a ring when you can go to someone who will accept your happy meal? The other part to that is some women don’t want to get married..ever.

          There really is no one thing to blame, but women used to have the upper hand in dating (and it worked), now we don’t. Gender roles are more confusing by the minute. There are 58639 rules to follow and I don’t know who in the hell came up with them. Let’s just get back to the basics…tell a man what you’re looking for, he starts being shifty and shady…on to the next one. Simple, trust, you ain’t missing anything.

          • http://twitter.com/itztrizz617 herbetteroption

            Women are A LOT more open about their sexuality nowadays….they are “bi”, they got NSFW facebook pictures, and theres chicks who will just be eff this ima get mines. Its almost too easy now, forget a happy meal all it takes is a :) text

            • http://twitter.com/MOTRenaissance Adonis (@MOTRenaissance)

              LMAO @HerBetterOption because it is the truth for any man with a moderate amount of game

          • Imperfect

            The article concluded that if women were tired of men jumping from women to women, then we need to collectively raise the price of sex

            That (once again) leaves no room for male error! It just suggest what women need to do to control what men want to do. And completely ignores that the men willing to get married to have sex aren’t the men trying to have the cheapest possible sex

            • k-steez

              why does it leave no room for male error? pointing out one issue or one solution doesn’t automatically mean there are no other issues or solutions! and this isn’t just to you imperfect, i’ve seen similar logic all up and down this thread from men and women. pointing out one issue or one gender’s issues doesn’t mean no other issues exist.

              i think that’s the main reason why this conversation is so circular and generally doesn’t yield results. anytime someone says XYZ is a problem, the people who XYZ applies to say “well, what about the rest of the alphabet! it’s ABC’s fault too. and what about HIJ?”

              so the fact that men contribute to this issue too, does not make invalid the point that women collectively demanding more would improve things. both can be true! men being on some bullish sometimes does not excuse us from our bullish!

              • http://twitter.com/#!/NewYork2VA NY2VA

                I just posted the same thing downthread. We have to stop acting like male and female responsibility are mutually exclusive. We are all culpable in our own right. If I have been dealing with an ain’t shyt dude for five years, his ain’t shytness doesn’t neegate the fact that I ignored his ain’t shytness for four out of those five years. When I recognized that he wasn’t shyt, I could have dipped, but I found reason upon reason to stick it out. Does that make it okay that he ain’t shyt? NO! But I can’t do a gotdamn thing about his ain’t shytness, except remove it from my life space.

                Gotta know and recognize your part.

                • k-steez

                  yes!

                • RG

                  I actually agree here. What women don’t see or hear is that men do a lot of policing themselves, but we dont let you all in the conversation because all we here is n*ggas aint sh*t. Accordingly, we circle the wagons. Kind of one of those “what goes on in this house stays in this house type of situations” Trust that we talk about these things amongst our inner circle of homeboys. You get clowned in my circle for shirking responsibility or letting a decent woman go.

                  Men know a good woman when they see one, problem is there are a lot of marginal women out here thinking they’re good women. Vice versa for these “good guys.” More often than not, good guys are lames. Be yourself, I hate this good guy vs. bad guy discussion. On any given day I can be an a$$hole, but I guarantee my girl or wife knows she’s the priority in my life and she gets treated with the utmost respect. At the same time, I have opinions which can be downright s*xist at times, eff it, that’s me. Tell you the truth, in my experience, guys with opinions/perspectives society might deem s*xist oftentimes like strong women with strong personalities.

              • http://twitter.com/#!/NewYork2VA NY2VA

                I just posted the same thing downthread. We have to stop acting like male and female responsibility are mutually exclusive. We are all culpable in our own right. If I have been dealing with an ain’t shyt dude for five years, his ain’t shytness doesn’t neegate the fact that I ignored his ain’t shytness for four out of those five years. When I recognized that he wasn’t shyt, I could have dipped, but I found reason upon reason to stick it out. Does that make it okay that he ain’t shyt? NO! But I can’t do a gotdamn thing about his ain’t shytness, except remove it from my life space.

              • Imperfect

                Any argument that suggest that an alteration in the behavior of a person who’s behavior itself is not the cause of the problem is flawed.
                If the problem is male whordom, then the solution is male chastity. Granted, straight men can’t screw straight women if straight women aren’t screwin, but the whore-like tendencies will remain, if the source (the male whore) does not alter his behavior.
                Just because we refuse to screw them, is not gonna make them stop tryin. And the attempt is gonna yield the same frustrated results

                • Justmetheguy

                  ” Just because we refuse to screw them, is not gonna make them stop trying. ”

                  Who gives a rat’s arse if they’re trying? You know how many young brothers out here are TRYING to go to the NBA? Do you realize how broke, wack, and irrelevant the NBA would be if they accepted all or most of these guys? You speak as though just because he’s trying means you have to let him in. I swear I’m not following this logic. I mean our society does send men the message that not only is it ok to be promiscuous, but that if you aren’t then you’re less of a man. I get this, and this needs to stop, but women also encourage this by talking about men who are suave and successful with the ladies as if they’re somehow better at life or more impressive men than the ones that don’t make promiscuous behavior a priority (even though it’s in their biology to be promiscuous). Again my question to you is because men will always try (to bed as many of you as possible) means what again? (serious question)

          • http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=M5FR1LGsT7E TheAnti-Cool

            I definitely don’t want to get married…ever.

            Am I really lowering the price of sex because of that?

          • http://kcfiction.tumblr.com NubianEmpress

            “women used to have the upper hand in dating”

            *record stops* what? in this patriarchal society? where you are given over in exchange for property (i.e. dowry)? that don’t really sound like an upper hand to me. I think women have a lot more AGENCY now, but we are just catching up as far as socialization is concerned in how to deal with that agency. hmm. I’d rather not be a product.

            also, there are other cultures that see gender roles other ways. I think living in the West has blinded us to the fact that our MO isn’t the only MO for life.

          • http://twitter.com/MOTRenaissance Adonis (@MOTRenaissance)

            @Aisha

            That was a good effin article… And the marriage stats continue to decline…

      • http://twitter.com/thenaimacyde Naima

        Sometimes you want to believe someone has potential. I dated this guy who on paper sounds amazing, but umm…he was a nutjob. I mean, just because he might go to a top 10 university or have a lot of talent doesn’t mean he is not trifling. I am kind of trigger happy, so I kill a situation before it even turns into a relationship. However, sometimes people don’t know how to let go.

        • DQ

          ****sometimes people don’t know how to let go****

          Don’t disagree with this idea either. I just disagree that you have the right to make a choice but somehow avoid the consequences of that choice. If you choose not to let go a nutjob with potential… own the consequences. Be accountable.

        • WayUPThere

          Nutjob and trifling? Did he try to tell you that you were supposed to be his #1 chick or make you part of a rotation or soemthing?

          • http://twitter.com/thenaimacyde Naima

            LMAOOOOOOOOOO….umm…this is too accurate. O_O

            Two Words: Polyamorous Relationship

            iDied.

            I’m still laughing. The word “harem” was actually used.

            • WayUPThere

              I’m mad ole boy said “harem.”

              #cmonson!

            • chunk

              Wait… believing in polyamorous relationships made him a nut job?

              Maybe it just made you two incompatible…

        • Todd

          Therein lies the problem. You don’t date paper, you date people. That is what dudes mean when they’re talking about potential. They mean a man who is fundamentally a good person: takes care of himself, is nice to his mama, helps out the kids and neighbors, gives an honest day’s work for an honest day’s pay, works his jive well (if you get my drift) and will treat his women well. Instead, women see potential with that hood remix of Chris Brown and Screamin’ Jay Hawkins because he dresses nice and has some paper.

          Therein lies the problem.

          • http://www.wildcougarconfessions.com Wild Cougar

            No, its the guy you just mentioned above who disappears when the baby comes. THAT DUDE RIGHT THERE. The VSS of the world pick that dude to have a baby with and he steps out.

            Now whose fault is it? Come one now, figure out a way to make it her fault. I know you can do it.

            • Todd

              It’s errbody’s fault. See, I did include her in the mix. :)

              Think about it like this. Let’s say they’re a burglar in the neighbor breaking into everyone’s houses and taking their stuff. Of course, some houses he really has to work at to get at their valuables. Not only is he dead wrong, but it’s clear that with some houses he had to work at. No house can be made perfectly inpenetrable, so the owners aren’t responsible. It’s the burglar who broke the law and disrespected their rights. However, in some houses, you have doors and windows open with valuables open for the world to see. While he’s still wrong for taking their stuff, the owners didn’t exactly try to secure things from potential harm.

              Look, there are plenty of ain’t shyt men out there. Trust me, I know some of them closely, and have tried to stop them from the foolishness. Also, anyone can get caught up in the okey-doke at any given moment. At the same time though, if you refuses to ask questions or ignore the fact that this is dude #14 that’s just like this, maybe, just MAYBE, you might have to be responsible on your end. I’m not saying that this precludes the man from having responsibly, but you have to own your part of it too.

              • http://www.wildcougarconfessions.com Wild Cougar

                Really? If a guy acts like a good guy till the baby comes, what, pray tell, is the woman’s responsibility? You stretching here

                • http://panamaenrique.wordpress.com Malik

                  I’m going to need someone to start a documentary where they follow these ‘fake good men’ for years so I can have a frame of reference to these dude’s behaviors. Because I can not possibly believe it being so common that it takes women years to find out he isn’t a good dude. I need a damn timeline or something I do not believe in the slightest that this is a common occurrence. Women are either ignorant at Olympian heights or they’re drastically overstating how common this actually occurs.

                  • naturalista88

                    Yeah, I’mma need a flow chart or some bar graphs on this cause it’s not clicking w/me as well. If you’re a VSS/VSB, I’d think all it takes is using the common sense you were given/taught/whatever, and paying attention to your instinct/feelings. If something, ANYTHING doesn’t feel right about a person or situation, don’t hesitate to politely exit stage left cause most likely that feeling is a warning sign that some b.s. is on the horizon.

                  • A Woman’s Eyes

                    I’m with you on this !

                  • RG

                    “I need a damn timeline or something I do not believe in the slightest that this is a common occurrence. Women are either ignorant at Olympian heights or they’re drastically overstating how common this actually occurs.”

                    Thank you. I’m thinking I live in an alternative universe. Everyone gives you signals.

                • Todd

                  The woman’s responsibility is to ask questions about the guy. I’m not saying that if a woman asks a good guy if he’s a dog that he’ll break out with the PowerPoint presentation explaining how, yes, he ain’t worth sh!t, complete with videos of the women he’s dogged. However, unless you’re hitting it raw from Day One and the woman just gets pregnant like that, you have enough time between when you met and when you get knocked up to ask questions about people. A person has to be discerning about the people they keep around them. That’s a sign of maturity, and a woman who doesn’t know to do that isn’t but a girl in my eyes.

                  • http://www.wildcougarconfessions.com Wild Cougar

                    Pointless to argue with someone who believes all misfortune could have been foreseen. The illusion of control is a delicious addictive thing till reality knocks you to the ground and holds you there awhile.

                    • Todd

                      So I don’t see how we disagree. Women can be fooled. I alluded to this earlier. What I am saying is that women just can’t say it’s all the man’s fault. A woman, heck, an adult human being has the right and responsibility to protect themselves. A woman who fails in that right and responsibility will get a bit of a side-eye from me. This doesn’t absolve the man, though. He has to live up to the lies he’s put out there. :)

                    • k-steez

                      it’s also pointless to argue with someone who believes all misfortune is someone’s fault other than their own, wildcougar. you act like the dude said something ridiculous by saying take your time and pick a good dude, not just one that’s good on paper. why are you so resistant to that general statement? sure, there may be instances where someone is a genius psychopath that gives no indication of his true colors until a year in when you’re knocked up. but those are exceptions! most times you’ll find out a ain’t-ish ninja ain’t ish if you take your time and pay attention! the occasional exception does not make this untrue! i swear, some of these comments from the vss’ on here make it seem like women don’t want to be held accountable for anything. all good things are a result of our brilliance and resilience, and all bad things are a result of smooth-talking tricksters. i’m not buying it. woman up!

                      and i’m a woman.

                    • http://www.wildcougarconfessions.com Wild Cougar

                      I made a very specific example of when the woman is not at fault. It’s not a rare occasion. It’s quite common. If you have a hard time seeing that, maybe you have an illusion of control.

                • Justmetheguy

                  ” Really? If a guy acts like a good guy till the baby comes, what, pray tell, is the woman’s responsibility? You stretching here”

                  Wild Cougar- Seriously, I think that’s a cop out. I hear this so often from women but I don’t believe it because it’s the same convenient story that too many women are using. How do his parents feel about it? Did you already talk with him (and or his parents) about the possibility of a baby being born? Did you already talk to him about his views on marriage and his plans for it? Do you know his middle name? Sheesh. Women don’t usually know much more about these guys than where they work, where they live, what there interests and favorite forms of entertainment are, and their Zodiac sign. We’re all about instant gratification but that doesn’t work when you’re building another life with a person. Plus, what’s all this “when the baby comes”. The baby didn’t come from the stork. And I refuse to believe all these condoms are breaking….Is a man that walks completely out on his child dead ass wrong? Yes! However should we all be protecting our best interest? Triple yes! If I could get pregnant my whole perspective on sex (and especially unprotected sex) would be entirely different than it is as a man. And I’m actually one of the super cautious always use protection type of men. I don’t fully buy these “pregnancy brought out his demons and only then were his true colors shown” arguments. They’re too convenient and take all the onus off of the woman. I guess that’s the plan though huh?

              • CurlyTop

                I liked your comparison.

            • RG

              Naw, I think what you have is a situation where the woman who supposedly gets burned by the positive example outlined above is an exception. Then what happens is she is probably the most vocal in one of these debates or the women (and men) who get burned flock to these type of discussions. All of sudden the minority sounds like the majority. My point is (I do have one) that I rarely see a man about his sh*t walk away from responsibility. Can it happen? Sure. But my guess is said situation is in the minority.

            • http://twitter.com/MOTRenaissance Adonis (@MOTRenaissance)

              @Wild Cougar

              You could have married him first (knowing his assets & all) & then made a baby with him…

              Women’s fault… Too Easy!!!

              Women have alot of things going for them in 2011… Real Talk… You got to maximize your rights & privileges

    • A Woman’s Eyes

      ” On the other hand, its not fair to place all the blame on the women for choosing trifling kneegrows when so many of them exist and hide it so well. ”

      We are accountable for choosing him too quickly. There’s nothing wrong with pulling back and giving it more time to learn what is in his character before choosing him. ( I’m not so sure that choosing a man is an automatic translation that he will choose me and thus be the man I want to have. Better I find out what type of man he is before I accept his DNA in my life. ) I think being responsible for our choice means not giving away all of ourselves to men who just look good on paper and being able to walk away before we are feelings and DNA in this man.

  • http://panamaenrique.wordpress.com Malik

    The woman makes a strong argument. I agree it isn’t fair that women are placed as the social guards of the future of the black community, never-the-less you are. I’m sorry, but when you’re the general manager choosing which players you want for the team, the blame lands on you when that doesn’t mesh.

    With that being said, just because the standards are low doesn’t mean you shouldn’t aspire than the expectations of those around you.. Most people don’t have very high aspirations though. Fun with bell curves and all that jazz.

    Off-Topic: Yoles wanted me to tell our fellow VSP that the Brooklyn Museum is having free entry, like it does every month, on the First Saturday. Yoles and I are going. So you should come. I promise, no church hugs!

    • Ms.MangoButter

      Yall are BRAVE! That first saturday will be jammed PACKED especially if ti proves to be a hot day like it has been this week.

    • DQ

      I tend to agree with Jill that they it’s unfair to make them the social guards of the future, because they aren’t. We (black men and women) do it as a team, or quite simply, it doesn’t get done.

      However I see nothing wrong with holding them accountable to their choices and the subsequent consequences.

    • Sweet Sass

      ” I agree it isn’t fair that women are placed as the social guards of the future of the black community, never-the-less you are.”

      Isn’t this so cooooonnnnnnnveeeeennnient, mhm. Very Convenient argument for a man to put forth. No matter how bad, untrustworthy, irrational, selfish, and trifling ya’ll act, you can shift the blame to us? No need to take any accountability of your actions as men.

      Wasn’t there not one, but, TWO Million Man Marches? And ya’ll *still* managed to not accomplish a damn thing. Turn the mirror on thyself please. Fix your own house.

      • http://www.wildcougarconfessions.com Wild Cougar

        EXACTLY

      • http://panamaenrique.wordpress.com Malik

        With that being said, just because the standards are low doesn’t mean you shouldn’t aspire than the expectations of those around you

        I said it in the very same post. I guess this is a great example why women can’t find good guys. They see only want they want and latch on it like a leech.

        • http://www.wildcougarconfessions.com Wild Cougar

          Lessee, shall I assume you are one of those good guys? Who gets irritated that his comment was misread or not adequately recognized. Then generalizes the slight to some defect in all women, and compares them to leeches. So, you are one of those good guys women s. hould give a chance, right? Get my point?

          • http://panamaenrique.wordpress.com Malik

            tongue–in–cheek adj
            Definition of TONGUE-IN-CHEEK
            : characterized by insincerity, irony, or whimsical exaggeration

            http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/tongue-in-cheek

            Seriously. This is why ‘we’ can’t have a conversation if you’re going to make an effort to misconstrue any and everything I say to fit your agenda even if we already agree on certain points. It’s a waste of time.

            • Sweet Sass

              Malik, lemme give you a good example of what I mean.

              There is a guy I knew in college, we will call him L.

              He considers himself to be a good catch. He thinks he is one of those ‘good guys’. L will be the first person to extoll to you all of his amazing qualities, that he is athletic, was in a greek org (diva dude alert), went to the Million Man March….mhm, all that.

              He claims to be so spiritual, so down to each, so responsible.

              Well, he ended up getting a freshman girl pregnant. Then dipped. He literally moved across the whole country to avoid taking care of that kid he made. If you talk to him on the West Coast, I bet you he still talks like he is this awesome dude and women in general are just not good enough.

            • Sweet Sass

              Malik, lemme give you a good example of what I mean.

              There is a guy I knew in college, we will call him L.

              He considers himself to be a good catch. He thinks he is one of those ‘good guys’. L will be the first person to extoll to you all of his amazing qualities, that he is athletic, was in a greek org (diva dude alert), went to the Million Man March….mhm, all that.

              He claims to be so spiritual, so down to earth, so responsible.

              Well, he ended up getting a freshman girl pregnant. Then dipped. He literally moved across the whole country to avoid taking care of that kid he made. If you talk to him on the West Coast, I bet you he still talks like he is this awesome dude and women in general are just not good enough.

      • Ivy St.

        “Wasn’t there not one, but, TWO Million Man Marches? And ya’ll *still* managed to not accomplish a damn thing. Turn the mirror on thyself please. Fix your own house.”

        Yes! Whether men want to believe it or not, women are still holding down the fort, even wit the bad choices. If the men don’t like how things are, no one is stopping them from making a difference.

      • k-steez

        ” And ya’ll *still* managed to not accomplish a damn thing.”

        really?

        no seriously?

        ya’ll sisters are on some new type ish this morning. this is what you think of our men? of our brothers and fathers? this saddens me.

        • http://twitter.com/#!/NewYork2VA NY2VA

          I agree, Steez. I don’t give a fcuk what anybody says on this blog, Black men are on the come up and been on the come up. I’m married to a great Black man, his friends are phenomenal black men and my girls are married to phenomenal black men. We are really on some bullshyt right now y’all, and we’re supposed to be the smart ones. Good dudes make bad decisions sometimes. Good women make bad decisions sometimes. It is the nature of being human, rather than a deity. Smart people learn from their mistakes and chalk them up as experience. Smart people do not sit around and pontificate about blame and get mad because they don’t want to own their part. That shyt is the antithesis of smart. For those of us who are older, we are NOT setting a good example for the young VSSs and VSBs by going around and around in these ridiculous circles. Everybody needs to man up/ put their big girl panties on and own their bullshyt. It might smell bad, but its yours. Own it!

          According to the name of the blog, we’re not just smart, we’re VERY SMART! Gotta tell ya… We are on some dumb-dumb shyt right now, doe. SMMFH.

          • k-steez

            girl, yes. these comments are breaking my heart! we’ll never make our way out of these problems if we just sit around pointing fingers. i’m far from blameless, i have fked an ain’t-ish ninja before. it’s just the grace of god that i don’t have an ain’t-ish baby daddy. but like u said, that’s all good, make ur mistakes, both genders. but take a look at your actions, check yourself! ur life is ur responsibility. everybody has changes that they can make, but we’re only responsible for the ones we can make for ourselves.

            thank God for ur good black man and those your friends have found. some of these comments from the ladies would make u think they don’t exist.

            this whole discussion is exhausting, i’m gonna try really hard not to comment again, lol!

            • RG

              I feel you . On both sides of the equation. You essentially have the folks who have been screwed over, yelling the loudest during these discussions. Why? Because they’ve been hurt the most. Human nature is to blame your environment before you blame yourself. We attract what we put out. Consequently, if we are attracting aint sh*t men/women, guess what…we’re probably exhibiting aint sh*t characteristics…or fishing with aint sh*t bait.

        • Sweet Sass

          Yes, the only thing that came outta the Million Man marches was the sale of bean pies and red bowties.

          If the first one was effectual there would not have been need for the second (which should have been renamed the 10,000 man march because there was a fraction of the people there.)

    • http://twitter.com/kjnetic peter parker

      “Off-Topic: Yoles wanted me to tell our fellow VSP that the Brooklyn Museum is having free entry, like it does every month, on the First Saturday. Yoles and I are going. So you should come. I promise, no church hugs!”

      darn. *snaps fingers* doing a lil…’side gig’….

      i’ma try to check this out in September.

    • Todd

      Hey, where are you guys meeting up? Holla at iluminat14@gmail.com so we can get it poppin.

      But yeah, you’re right Malik. At some point, if all the players the GM is choosing suck, perhaps it’s time to make a change in the front office.

      • Todd

        Ooops…that’s iluminati14@gmail.com. Sorry!

        • http://panamaenrique.wordpress.com Malik

          Yoles email is ImYolie226@gmail.com and she requested that you put your VSB handle in the subject. She doesn’t object to unsolicited peen pictures either.

          • Todd

            Sent and Sent. ROTFLMAO

          • Yoles

            you LIE Malik no peen pics please

  • NinaFontaine

    “Male behavior has always been the same. The only difference now is that it became cool for you all to be hoes.” O__O Is it cool for us to be hoes???
    Neither one of them won this argument if you ask me –

    if everything Jack is saying is true – then the new “Summer’s Eve” commercial is correct “ALL HAIL THE V” :(

    • Mo-VSS

      Right. Like women are not being praised for whoredom at all. Even the mere thought of whoredom plagues women starting from middle school and extends well into adulthood. If you like a boy or are friendly with boys in MS or HS, then you’re a whore. Nevermind whether you are sleeping with them or not.

      Meanwhile men can actively f-k as many women as possible at the same time and excuses are made and perceptions are that he’s just doing what men do.

      So, I don’t know if saying it’s cool for women to be hos is a correct assertion.

    • http://enterknight.blogspot.com/ Misty Knight

      Those sassy Vaj-jay-jay commercials are soo bad they’re good. I couldn’t stop laughing at the ridiculousness of it all. The sassy black vaj-jay-jay up in the club,going “Gurrrllll” and the “Aye Pappi” Latina vaj-jay-jay enjoying childbirth and leopard print thongs..Classic.

    • CurlyTop

      Summer’s Eve needs to stop, lol. Destroying the homeostasis of the vajayjay and then proclaiming “Hail to the V” gets you a kick in the shin.

      • chunk

        cosign! please, just… don’t.

    • Chanelle

      lmao! that commercial is so funny! and they premiered it at the harry potter movies- now whose idea was that lol

    • OutrageousFlair

      I’m going to blame Sex and the City for this one. A show about these sexually free women led a HUGE following of women to believe that sleeping around with a large number of men is acceptable, desirable and an exercise of our “freedom” as women.

      I can’t even tell you how many black females i know who say they are going to “date like a white girl” meaning they will accept “dates” with various men, and if they are moved to sleep with the man that night, they will. Even if the relationship goes no where else, at least they got some. Now, I’m not saying this is absolutely awful, but if women are going to “date” like this, don’t be mad when you don’t get second dates or if you’re still single!

      Also, these same chicks are listening to these no good loser men telling them that men like “sexually free” women who will sleep with them early in the game.

  • http://kcfiction.tumblr.com NubianEmpress

    And so the comments section has become the post. Too-shay.

    LMAO. Have a good night/morning yall.

    • Mena

      Exactly. Champ can simply delete the post and post the comments.