Dating, Relationships, & Sex, Theory & Essay

Who Pays For The 51st Date?

"You're not fooling anyone. I know you just wanted to "take a romantic walk" cause you don't wanna spend any money."

“You’re not fooling anyone. I know you just wanted to “take a romantic walk” cause you don’t wanna spend any money.”

We’ve all heard the story.

Boy approaches Girl while at annual Delta Sigma Theta “Twerk For The Cure” sickle-cell research fundraiser. Girl, slightly impressed by Boy’s confidence despite his quite conspicuous reverse widow’s peak, gives Boy her actual real phone number. Four days later, Boy and Girl go on first date at Irish/Cajun fusion tapas bar. Date goes extremely well. Boy covers tab for this date, as well as the next three Boy and Girl go on. By the fifth date, Girl offers to cook for Boy—a Bougie Black Girl’s way of saying “We go together now, and I’m officially open to the idea of f*cking you.”

Boy and Girl go on a few more good dates—all on Boy’s dime—while both becoming more and more convinced that this is will turn into a relationship.

It does. They officially make it Facebook official eight weeks after the first date. 

I know it’s not the most politically correct and/or progressive thing to say that there’s a “right” or “wrong” way to court, but the scenario above—where the man foots the bill for the majority (not all, but the majority) of the dates that take place while courting—is the right way to do things. If you disagree, that’s fine. You’re wrong, but you’re allowed to be.

(Yes, I understand that many of these types of “rules” were crafted at a time when it was just more practical and financially prudent for a man to always pay while in the courting phase. I also understand that it may not make much logical sense for a man to be expected to pay even if the person he’s dating makes more money than he does. But…well, there is no but. Just shut the f*ck up and f*cking do it.) 

But, while the rules and the general financial responsibility of courtship are generally understood and agreed upon, what happens when courtship ends? Basically, we all know who is supposed to pay for the 1st, 2nd, and 3rd date, but what about the 51st, 52nd, and 53rd? Is there a “right” way to handle the bill when an established couple is out to eat or any other date-like activity?

In theory, this seems like a question with a pretty practical solution. If you’re a serious couple, you’re likely sharing expenses. And, if you’re sharing expenses, you should—in theory—also share date expenses. But, as anyone who saw After Earth last weekend will remind you, just because something should work in theory doesn’t mean it actually will.

There are people who believe the courting dynamic should last for the entire relationship. Basically, aside from his birthday and those rare and random days when she finally apologizes for some bullshit that she’s always done—and, despite the apology, will continue to do—the man should always pay. Others believe that couples should take turns, which, although this seems to be the most reasonable choice, can get weird if someone starts keeping count (and someone always does).

And, while splitting things 50/50 is the best idea in theory, who wants to be 40 years old and still going on dutch dates with your wife?

I guess the best thing to do is just to communicate your financial expectations before the “real” relationship starts instead of assuming that you’ll both be on the same page. But, while this also works “in theory,” I just can’t see too many women with the balls to interrupt a conversation on a date with “You know this shit’s on you for the next 50 years, right?” while happily clutching a forkful of lobster.

My advice? Just don’t date Deltas.

***BTW, today is Panama’s birthday and shit. So, if you see him today, buy him a shot. If you don’t see him and see me instead, just buy me the shot and we’ll drink in his honor***

—Damon Young (aka “The Champ”)

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Damon Young

Damon Young is the editor-in-chief of VSB. He is also a contributing editor for EBONY.com. He resides in Pittsburgh, and he really likes pancakes.

  • http://www.iamyourpeople.com I Am Your People

    HAPPY BIRTHDAY PANAMA! *body rolls in glitter and mambo sauce*

    • http://www.twitter.com/mcnairian5 McNairian

      Happy born day P! may you do many light skint things…it’s your day!

    • IcePrincess

      *busts out of a huge box & begins twerking*

      • Jay

        *busts out of a huge box & begins twerking*

        Is the “busting out of the box” supposed to be symbolic?? ;)

        • IcePrincess

          Looool jay u a nut.

          • Sweet GA Brown

            Yall are to funny.

    • nillalatte

      another birfday? damn, he’s getting old. :P enjoy your day Panama!

    • http://commentarybyvalentina.wordpress.com/ Val

      :-) Happy birthday, PJ! :-)

      *gives PJ a giant scoop of red velvet ice cream with a candle on top*

    • Yoles

      ? ?? ? Happy Birthday to You ??•*.*•???Happy Birthday to You ••?? Happy Birthday, Dear PANAMAHappy Birthday tooooooo You! ? ?? ?

      *shakes what my mama gave me*

      • Yoles

        im very salty that my emoticons and colorful writings no long present themselves on vsb… :(

        • LMNOP

          Me too. I was just going to cosign your beautiful Happy Birthday message, because god knows I can’t do anything like that.

          new VSB format, let Yoles be great!

    • http://stanoffewwords.wordpress.com Tristan

      Happy Born Day P….Geminis over everything…..except shrimp.

    • Todd

      Happy Birthday PJ! Enjoy your day! Hopefully you spent your weekend getting your shots so you can work today. :)

      • IcePrincess

        Panama seems like the type who celebrates his sh*t all WEEK.

        • http://verysmartbrothas.com Panama Jackson

          You must follow me on Instagram. It’s shenanigans. I get called an alcoholic at least once a week.

          IG: panamajackson

          • CNotes

            That’s because you post weekly pics of brown liquor. *snickering*

          • naturalista88

            You are tho.

    • http://missrosen.wordpress.com esa

      ~*~ happy birthday to youu ~*~

    • mena

      Happy Birthday PJ! I hope your day is filled with happiness, liquor, and 3 Zoe Saldanas waiting to give you a bath in milk and honey.

    • http://www.TheNewEve.com Bunni

      Hapy Bday P!! May your liver respect you, ugly b*tches neglect you, hangovers reject you, and AA accept you :-)

    • Breezy

      *clears throat and sings like Marilyn Monroe*

      “Happy Birthday to yoooouuuuuu, Happy Birthday to yooooouuuu, Happy Biiiiiirrrttthhhhhhday Mr. PJJJJJJJJ, Happy Birthday to yoooouuu”

      *places jar of shea butter and almond oil at PJ’s feet and leaves the room*

    • Rachmo

      Happy Birthday Panama! *Slides Panama a plate of wings from Ben’s Next Door*

    • http://www.twitter.com/Bmorebmw Tentpole

      Happy Birthday PJ may your day never see you sober.

    • http://www.styleillusions.com WIP

      happy birthday PDJ

    • Kema

      Happy Birthday!!! *twerks something*

      • Sahel

        Pours Apple juice on Kemas chest

        • Marshal

          :-D

        • Kema

          *slaps bottle out of hand and kicks shin* Wtf??!! *Gets back to twerking*

    • http://pinchmycheekie.wordpress.com Cheekie

      *treats Panda to a 51st eDate due to his BIRFDAYYYYYY* OWWWWWWW! *pays 3 dollars for date*

    • LMNOP

      Happy Birthday!!!

    • http://www.terryodis.wix.comtodis MicTheMessenger

      Happy Birthday Peezus

    • Sweet GA Brown

      Happy Born Day!!!!

    • Malik

      happy birthyday panamana panorama pajama

    • http://verysmartbrothas.com Panama Jackson

      Thank you all. I appreciate the bday shoutouts. Turning 34 is a milest…f*ck that…

      …TURN DOWN FOR WHAT!!!!

      YOLO.

      SWAG.

      EPIC.

      MOVEMENT.

      BIRDMAN HANDRUBS.

      • mena

        Where does this turn down thing come from? What does it mean?

    • SweetSass

      Yay. Happy birthday, Panama!

  • http://www.twitter.com/mcnairian5 McNairian

    Love the scenario, one of the realest ever. The dude pays bottom line. When you are long term, your girl gonna pay every now and then, but the dude pays. That’s just the way it is, and should be. I’m old school when it comes to courtin’.

    • msdebbs

      wish there were more men like your out here…

      • IcePrincess

        …..shots fired?

      • http://stanoffewwords.wordpress.com Tristan

        Theres plenty….i would assume, i meam is actually paying for a date you asked for is some sort of deed now…..its rough out here

        • mena

          I’ve only seen black men on the net complain about this. So yes, those on the net do feel as though they shouldn’t have to pay for the first date and barely should pay for the second. In my opinion, the man sets the tone for the date so if you take a woman to a resturant and she has her nose turned up over where you took her, don’t ask her out again. Same way if you are on a few dates later and she has never reached for her wallet, you may have a woman on your hands that will expect for you to pay for everything in the relationship. People show their true colors if you watch closely enough. Just don’t take that experience and tack it on the whole. The same way dudes don’t want women bringing in baggage, I want a clean slate when dating as well.

          • http://www.twitter.com/Bmorebmw Tentpole

            Mena, well said and to prove it the next one is on me.

          • http://verysmartbrothas.com The Champ

            “I’ve only seen black men on the net complain about this.”

            I don’t think the complaining about this is race-specific. In fact the most of the articles/blog posts on why men shouldn’t be obligated to pay that I’ve read have been written by White men

            • mena

              I, me personally, have only seen black men on the net complain about this.

              • http://verysmartbrothas.com The Champ

                tu motherf*ckin shea

      • http://www.twitter.com/mcnairian5 McNairian

        ‘Preciate ya.

    • Breezy

      McNairian for President of the Nucckas Need To Come Correct Association.

      • http://www.twitter.com McNairian

        *forms exploratory committee*

    • http://www.styleillusions.com WIP

      Are you still “courting” on date 51?

      • http://www.terryodis.wix.comtodis MicTheMessenger

        As a man, we are ALWAYS courting. Or at least we should be.

        • Breezy

          MicTheMessenger for Vice President of Nucckas Need To Come Correct Association.

          *please see McNairian for further information*

        • Sweet GA Brown

          *exhales

        • http://www.styleillusions.com WIP

          I know what you mean but I’m not sure I agree with that- and it may be more semantics than anything- but I think there is something after “courting.” There has to be. I imagine in a partnership, one partner does not constantly court the other.

          • http://www.saysmeblog.wordpress.com Aly

            Yeah, I agree with you WIP. I think it comes down to treating your s/o kindly and continuing to do at least SOME of the courting-type things that you did at the beginning of your relationship.

            • kenyadigit

              I’m not being rude or dismissive or anything but if we all agree that its the dudes responsibility to initiate and pay for the dates then what do women do during the courting process that they need to continue after? Look good?

              • Aly

                I don’t agree with that it’s always the man’s responsibility to initiate and pay. So maybe another person would be able to better answer your question.

              • Kema

                Whatever it was that made the man decide she was worth courting.

                • Marshal

                  Of course, because Women are just as much of a Go-Getter as Men- unless when it comes to Relationships and then ya’ll revert to ” I don’t Approach Men. I don’t like Rejection. It’s so Un-lady Like”, lol

              • h.h.h.

                “Questions that won’t be Answered” for $500?

                #JeopardyTheme

              • CNotes

                “…if we all agree that its the dudes responsibility to initiate and pay for the dates then what do women do during the courting process that they need to continue after? Look good?”

                Showing the man what being in a relationship with her would be like. If she is the domestic type, she will likely be caring for him by cooking, cleaning and making his home life easy. Depending on the relationship, the woman can pay for various things that will benefit him or the both of them during the courtship. Indeed, there are some men who only require that the woman look good. So, to those men, it is worth it for them to initiate and pay for her good looks. All depends on what a person values.

    • K.dot

      My ex and I had an issue about this. He was in school and finally got it off his chest that since I was the one working that I SHOULD BE PAYING SINCE I WAS WORKING. So funny to think about now. I told him if he wanted me to pay then we didn’t need to be together. He is one of those new age males that doesn’t mind his woman doing manly duties I guess.

      I actually offered him an alternative which was we just pay for ourselves but he was adamant about us alternating paying for the whole meal, not sure why…

      If you can’t afford it, then don’t go, think some men get caught up with trying to show off then want the woman to pick up her end or the whole tab. I’m not about that life. Rather go to something free or eat cheap. There are plenty of places to get a meal for 10 bucks.

      When men act like this it changes the dynamic of the relationship for sure. Women de down will lose a bit of respect when a man doesn’t insist on paying for their outing.

      Hopefully men already know to never let the woman go Dutch on the first date. When I offer I am always willing to pay but it’s just a test to see if “dude” is faking it. Half the time they are and will easily let me pay for myself, no convincing needed.

      • http://learninglover.com AfterMath

        This is really a to each their own things. I’m not a person that’s adamant about who should pay. I’ll always offer – and if I don’t have the money to take you out, we’re probably just gonna make it a Redfin and Ramen (or Edamame) night. But some women really like to be on that “I feel like I should be paying for myself…at least in the early stages”. Whether that’s a test or not isn’t my concern. Sometimes we’ll discuss it sometimes we won’t. Its really not that serious to me. If you paying your own way – which you offered to do – means that we don’t have a chance to get together because it was a test and I failed, then I never meant to enroll in that class cause the syllabus you’re going by is different than the one you discussed with me.

  • Cheech

    Apparently I heard courtship never ends so guys are spending most of the money on dates with some exceptions

    • http://stanoffewwords.wordpress.com Tristan

      An article in the Bitter Woman Gazette says men often stop doing what it took to get them in the first place, so that would mean courtship ends when the panties come out

      • http://stanoffewwords.wordpress.com Tristan

        off* stupid phone

        • http://inanimatethoughts.blogspot.com/ Animate

          Out still works though.

      • Negro Libre

        Most women come up will rules (including courtship ones) to prevent themselves from becoming lovestruck or d*ckmatized…basically anything to maintain a sense of security in a submissive position. If you’re 51 dates in and you’re still “courting” a woman for the sake of following her rules, you’ve already lost. Everybody knows when women are in love or in lust with a dude, there is no such thing as rules.

        As for bitter women, they never believe in what we call quid quo pro, and that’s why they’re always on the bleachers wondering why they can’t get minutes in the game of love and happiness.

        • http://www.twitter.com/mcnairian5 McNairian

          Courting is the man handling his business and getting to know a woman to see if she is marriage worthy. It was never “her” rules, it’s yours, at least it should be. Despite what we think about courting, it sets the stage for marriage. If you not ready for marriage don’t do it. If your cant afford a year’s worth of dates don’t do it.

          If you do, and all goes well, the dates will turn into engagement, which turns into marriage, mortgage…you get the picture.

          If you not down for that, state your intentions, you’ll still get the drawls, provided your game is tight enough.

          • mena

            +1. Yes to all of this.

          • Negro Libre

            Courting and dating are not synonymous. Courting was a system whereby a man pursued a woman for the sake of marriage only, anything else was considered a lustful affair. Relationships and dating are a 1920′s phenomenon that came about during the gilded age, where men and women started going steady aka a compromise, so that the woman didn’t feel like she was being used just for sex or her father’s property, and the man didn’t feel like he was giving his life away to a woman for the rest of his life just because he wanted to get laid.

            I would agree with you if people went from courting – marriage and that was the way of the world. However, most people go from courting-relationship-marriage, and to be courting in a relationship still, is relatively silly and shows one doesn’t understand the nature of relationships. The point of relationships is for the man and woman to become “friends” thus why the terms “boyfriend” and “girlfriend” came about. Then once they do that, then they move on to marriage. Courting is constant testing and proving yourself worthy to the other person, such actions are not beneficial to a friendship.

            • http://obsidianraw.bravejournal.com Obsidian

              @Negro Libre:
              Excellent points all around. Well done sir!

              Personally I find the topic to be a day late and a dollar short, given the overall state of marriage in the Black community in particular. More on this and related issues in today’s commentary…stay tuned…

              O.

            • http://www.twitter.com/mcnairian McNairian

              I feel we maybe splitting hairs here.

              Let’s forget about the word courting for a minute.

              Going steady and having a boyfriend/girlfriend are concepts established by children. Too young to date and not able to spend time together outside of school, was the inspiration for going steady and having a boyfriend/girlfriend.

              With that being said, the point of this post was who pays for the 51st date. The man does.

              When you look at “dating” in the context of a relationship, the guy should pay.

              If you are in a casual relationship, “Dutch don’t cost much” or take turns paying.

              • Negro Libre

                The concept of “relationships” was developed by children then. Check a history book: you were either married or single…there’s no such word as dating or even “casual relationship” until the 20th Century.

                All I’m saying is that after 50 dates, if it matters who pays on the 51st your relationship is a farce and you haven’t learned anything. Just like with a friend, you don’t do stuff based on what you “should” do, but rather than that, you do things because you want to. If we’re splitting hairs, it’s because of that word “should.”

                • http://www.twitter.com/mcnairian McNairian

                  Duly noted; I have no qualms with what you have posted.

                  • Demondog 06

                    that was an interesting exchange

                • Asiyah

                  “All I’m saying is that after 50 dates, if it matters who pays on the 51st your relationship is a farce and you haven’t learned anything.”

                  I agree with this part.

          • http://www.terryodis.wix.comtodis MicTheMessenger

            I agree bruh. As men we need to understand that there is INDEED a price tag on that p*ssy. Just depends on how much you willing to pay.

            • http://saysmeblog.wordpress.com Aly

              Hmm, this sounds an awful lot like a prostitute.

              • mena

                Why? Men want s3x. It costs them time and money to get it. Women want relationships. It costs us time and money to get into one.

                When we attach derogatory terms to things, that’s when the problem arises something that a guest poster did a few months back which he was wrong for doing.

                This to me isn’t prostitution and if it were, then we are ALL prostitutes in our everyday lives. Prostitutes sell their bodies in order to get money from their customers with no strings attached and they go their separate ways. It’s a simple cut transaction with no emotions or strings attached.

                This isn’t the case for people looking for relationships and marriages. I hate the fact that people view this as prostitution b/c it’s not. What Mic said isn’t bad if you can get away from looking at “price tag” as just a monetary value.

                • Marshal

                  I got to disagree completely on that. I like to go out and Enjoy myself ( watch a movie, go out to eat, etc), and Sometimes having a Woman be a part of that is a Bonus.

                  I Don’t “pay for Sex” by taking a Lady out on a “date” because quite honestly I can get Nani without taking a Woman Out. Let’s not act like this Does Not Occur. But hey, if “dating” is Organized Prostitution as many of ya’ll want to say the nSo Bet It, NOBODY should be being pissed off by being called Whores or Gold- Diggers or Sex Hunters then -_-

                  • mena

                    I Don’t “pay for Sex” by taking a “Lady out on a “date” because quite honestly I can get Nani without taking a Woman Out. Let’s not act like this Does Not Occur.”

                    Explain yourself further. You take women out on dates for company and nothing else? When you see a beautiful woman walking down the street and you get her number, you are taking her out on a date just to talk? I call BS. You are taking her out b/c she looks great and you would do her. This doesn’t make you a jerk by any means but i will never believe that people date just to date without wanting something else in exchange and a nice convo is a small part of that equation.

                    • Malik

                      Cynical.

                    • Marshal

                      I’m not out here trying to bone Every Attractive Woman I see, so unless you out here with a Drone or have access to a satellite in space following my every move I’m calling BS on your BS.

                      Second, I have a 5 Year old that was conceived because I got Pissed Off that my Ex-fiancée chose to listen to her friends about use being engaged as Teens rather than talking to me about her doubts (ironically, HER friends got engaged and married young as well- two years AFTER). I don’t want to set some message that Daddy just dates a whole bunch of Girls and give her Mother ammunition of me being a Dog of a Father, which I’m not. My situation with my Child’s Mother is another topic for another day.

                      Believe what you want, but I DO know that I’ve been on 8 dates since I’ve been back in my hometown, and in all 8 I didn’t Attempt to nor Got the Drawers- I did, however , get “some” from the last time I “got some” which was a while, and I’m just going to leave it at that

                    • mena

                      Marshal, i forgot you were a dad and so i think this plays a part in your mental space. I commend you for this way of thinking. I would say on average though, this is simply not the case. Malik called me cynical and i will take that. I just don’t believe that the majority of men are out here dating without some type of ulterior motive. That’s not a bad thing either.

            • http://recklessactsofpunctuation.tumblr.com dtafakari

              And this is why I never ‘enjoyed’ dating like most people in my peer group. I refused gifts from men I wasn’t in a committed relationship with and went dutch when I could get away with it… I never wanted anybody to think that the price tag for my drawz was equivalent to 3 Pappadeaux dinners. And once you’re married, if you have joint accounts for expenses like dinner dates, who pays what becomes a non-issue.

            • http://missrosen.wordpress.com esa

              with all due respect, this comment makes me feel very queasy.

              • Demondog 06

                nah don’t be squeamish..

                it is what it is, i know many women have a hard time seeing the whole mating ritual as a business transaction…but thats exactly what it is…for the most part, in order for men to get laid…there is a price to be paid…monetary, time investment or both. rarely can two horny people just spot each other across a crowded room, exchange some pleasantries then commence to meat slappin’. since cooch is far harder to get than peen, basically the woman sets the criteria/price

                • http://missrosen.worpress.com esa

                  i see how you look at things and i get it. it’s just not for me to treat people, or myself, like a transaction. because i did. and it was an epic fail ~*~

            • http://commentarybyvalentina.wordpress.com/ Val

              See that, PJ, there are men around who think like this.

              • http://www.saysmeblog.wordpress.com Aly

                Yup, you called it Val.

                • http://www.alltherightquestions.com T.Q. Fuego

                  But what if he said “cost” rather than price tag? Would you ladies still have a problem with his statement? Doesn’t anything of value have a cost? Supply and demand no? (I’m assuming everyone knows that price and cost aren’t the same thing.)

                  • http://missrosen.wordpress.com esa

                    “The cost of a thing is the amount of what I will call life which is required to be exchanged for it, immediately or in the long run.” —Henry David Thoreau

            • K.dot

              This is why I don’t have a problem with women that only date wealthy me. And truly considering only dating men that at least make more than me.

              As far as prostitution goes there is no courting. Just exchange of money.

              I love the feeling of a guy not being worried about who’s paying and in turn it will allow me to settle into my role better.

          • nicole nite

            I agree with you 1000% and appreciate your honesty….however I would ‘narcissistic ally’ add…… that I only found that MEN WHO HAVE NO MONEY (in other words Broke Azz Men BAM)…are often the ones who are quick to dispense with this tradition…and yet have the nerve to want ‘free drawals’….lol WEALTHY MEN….understand the ‘Art of Courtship’ well into Marriage and don’t make such mundane complaints!!!

            • http://verysmartbrothas.com The Champ

              “that I only found that MEN WHO HAVE NO MONEY (in other words Broke Azz Men BAM)…are often the ones who are quick to dispense with this tradition…and yet have the nerve to want ‘free drawals’….lol WEALTHY MEN….understand the ‘Art of Courtship’ well into Marriage and don’t make such mundane complaints!!!”

              i wouldn’t say that. when men do the “i dont want to pay for everything” thing, it’s usually not about income, but about them just not thinking that the person they happen to be seeing is worth it. i know men with money and men without as much money who act the exact same way

          • Sweet GA Brown

            You’re givin me life right now. Women tend to know the way things should go and sometimes we doubt ourselves. Guys love to use the new millenium to guilt trip women to court men.

            I think that paying for dates is part of courting as you stated above and it is the man laying the rules and saying that he wil be the one to make things happen for the two of them. Rules are important because the man is the leader and he sets the tone for the relationship. When women start paying women began to have more sayso and make more demands. There is nothing wrong with a woman paying every now and but when we pay all the time it disrupts the traditional, or as I like to say natural, order of things.

            • http://missrosen.wordpress.com esa

              ~ when we pay all the time it disrupts the traditional, or as I like to say natural, order of things.

              yes. i know this from experience. men stop being The Man when women start being The Man. even so-called new age dudes who arent down with gender roles. trust.

              in the presence of a waiter when a woman pays the bill, the man starts feeling like he got sonned. that ish turns things dark right quick ..

              • K.dot

                Totally agree with both of you.

                When I pay I basically have it in my mind that I will never take you seriously. And I will second guess some of your other decisions.

                Cooking won’t be as frequent, and I will expect to have more say so on other matters as well.

                This all trickles down to the fact you didn’t pay or thought this whole new age male “let her be the independent woman ” stuff was a-ok.

            • Kema

              “Women tend to know the way things should go and sometimes we doubt ourselves. Guys love to use the new millenium to guilt trip women to court men.”

              Exactly! Lets make it easier for men to date a whole bunch of us at once. Lol!

            • kinghenry

              damm girl, you spot on! wish they still made more of your type *drops mic*

            • kinghenry

              I replied on the wrong thread *damm girl, you spot on! wish they still made more of your type *drops mic* *

          • http://learninglover.com AfterMath

            I think part of the process is early on learning what kind of dates yal are going to be going on. Is she somebody that I can just catch the game with or is she somebody that we have to have reservations to the Theatre on Conn Ave for. Cause that changes the expected cost of a date from about $30 to $100. (by expected cost I mean average. So some could go lower than this cost and some could go higher) And if the expected cost of a date is in the three digit category, then that means that either she gonna be dating TRUE ballas (more than just the 6 figure ballas, but I’m talking $250,000 plus type ballas….well into that balla life), or she only gonna be having these dates like once a month.

            Speaking of which, I was in church the other night for young adult service and the pastor was basically answering questions that a lot of members had sent in. A lot of these questions had to do with relationships. One question was about a lady who was dating a man for 3 and a half years but only saw him once every other week. And was wondering how much longer she should wait for him to ask her to marry him. I bring this up because (a) When the preacher read the question, the whole church just laughed multiple times. I was really sad cause she was probably in the service.
            (b) Now that I’m in this thread, I’m wondering if she had some kind of thing like don’t come see me unless we going on one of these $100 cruses across the city or something.

        • http://www.alltherightquestions.com T.Q. Fuego

          ” If you’re 51 dates in and you’re still “courting” a woman for the sake of following her rules, you’ve already lost.”

          Exactly. Yall should know each other as people by then and be done with the whole “representatives” thing. As for whose rules they are, I don’t know that they’re hers, I’d say they’re society’s. They certainly aren’t my rules though. I play by mine so I wouldn’t know who’s responsible for the others.

        • http://verysmartbrothas.com The Champ

          “Most women come up will rules (including courtship ones) to prevent themselves from becoming lovestruck or d*ckmatized…”

          men are actually the ones who came up with “courtship rules” and chivalry and sh*t. it wasn’t done for a woman’s benefit, but for a man to basically see if a woman is “marry material” or whatever.

  • Malik

    I think by the 51st date it would be well established how liberal or traditional your relationship is.

    • http://www.alltherightquestions.com T.Q. Fuego

      Exactly.

      #teamnonissue

    • http://www.TheNewEve.com Bunni

      stop stealing my comments Malik, I’m not up late enough to post before you lol…..
      …in other words, I absolutely agree. By the 51st date, you should know what cheap woman or ballin man you’re with, and you can adjust accordingly. In my serious relationships, you can kinda gauge who should be paying for the date. If I made the suggestion and asked my boo to go out with me, thats my tab. If its just a regular ol date, they’ll prob pay….whats funny tho, is that who pays is negotiable when I date a guy, but when I date a woman, I will ALWAYS pay for my lady. Hmmm. I think Im a walking talking double standard lol *drats*

  • Iceprincess

    In the very beginning, before I know if I like him or not, yea, he’s mos def paying. However, if I’m feeling you, I have no prob whatsoever paying. Money is a small thing; it’s only a tool. Life is about the experiences that you make along the way that go into your memory bank. So if I’m vibing with someone awesome & I enjoy his company, you best believe I’m bringing him along with me, even if he can’t foot the bill for whatever reason. Meh, who cares?

    • http://www.TheNewEve.com Bunni

      yeah, its really just about the experience, and spending time with someone you care for….sure, we all like to feel courted at some point, but I couldnt imagine turning my nose up at someone i’ve been on 50 dates with cuz i refuse to pay. Thats just triflin lol.

    • http://obsidianraw.bravejournal.com Obsidian

      @Ms. Ice Princess:
      So, if it’s really only about the experience, and money ain’t a thang, why don’t you simply ante up, you 21st Century Woman, you?

      Hmm?

      You remarks about “feelin’ him” (or not) gave you away – and as might be expected, Men have developed appropriate countermeasures to deal with this. More in today’s commentary…stay tuned….

      O.

  • http://www.alltherightquestions.com T.Q. Fuego

    First off Happy b-day to the world’s coolest 3 Petey Jakes. Pimp pimp hooray and sh*t.

    As far as the question at hand tho:

    “what happens when courtship ends? Basically, we all know who is supposed to pay for the 1st, 2nd, and 3rd date, but what about the 51st, 52nd, and 53rd?”

    Whoever suggested it.

    #problemsolved

    • http://verysmartbrothas.com The Champ

      that sounds good in theory, but what if one party is more of a homebody and doesn’t really suggest outings that much?

      • http://www.alltherightquestions.com T.Q. Fuego

        “what if one party is more of a homebody and doesn’t really suggest outings that much?”

        Then that party would save a lot of money…

        Seriously though, they probably would have noticed the incompatibility by then and either gone separate ways or found a productive strategy for dealing with it. There’s no one right answer for how to handle it though.

    • http://verysmartbrothas.com Panama Jackson

      preciate ya broski.

  • Silk!

    Hey, I work too. I don’t have a problem with paying.

    I’ve refused to date men who said I could never take them out. Turns out all four of them are control freaks. Go figure.

    • http://stanoffewwords.wordpress.com Tristan

      I’m a progressive thinker….so drinks on u this weekend lol

  • Yoles

    in my long time experience, he who asks pays and once a relationship is established anyone pays…

    its never been a real issue… do people honestly have relationship roadblocks because of this??

    if he is impoverished me thinks it would behoove him to plan the dates and pay, that way he controls the cost of the date than to “take turns” and get caught out there at an expensive place…

    i can’t wait to read the comments…

    • http://stanoffewwords.wordpress.com Tristan

      nah you aint gonna be calling me improverished tho that just sounds much more unfortunate…

      i agree, I rather be in control of my own destiny, if i ask you out and only got $20, much rather go to this pottery class that i got a free groupon for, than be looking at the check like its a “im late text”

      • Camilleblu

        Tristan, u stoopid!!

      • Todd

        I like how you flipped that one. LOL

      • http://www.TheNewEve.com Bunni

        Mannnnn listen, Groupon, Living Social, Half Off Depot….I live for them!! And I’m proud of the deals I find…I will gladly boast to someone I’m dating “YOOO, I found this deal on Living Social, we gon have a great time”

        …I dont think theres anything wrong with displaying that youre financially responsible. I can only ball out on birthdays and anniversaries….the other dates shall be what WE can afford to do

    • http://obsidianraw.bravejournal.com Obsidian

      @Ms. Yoles:
      “in my long time experience, he who asks pays and once a relationship is established anyone pays…”

      O: I would like to draw everyone’s attention to the keyword in this statement – “HE” – and watch the Old Jedi Mindtrick at work…

      You see, the old canard about “whoever asks first should pay” is really “HE” as Ms. Yoles notes, because Women know that they do not need to ask a Man out for dates (the only exception to this being, *the Men they actually WANT in the first place – and in our days and times, this isn’t likely, for reasons that shouldn’t have to be recounted here*). Therefore, this comes back to the simple point that Women expect Men to pay, and this goes doubly so for Black Women in particular. More on this in today’s commentary…

      O.

      • http://inanimatethoughts.blogspot.com/ Animate

        Seriously, if you are still focused on who pays for what at this point in the relationship just end it.

    • http://www.styleillusions.com WIP

      “in my long time experience, he who asks pays and once a relationship is established anyone pays…

      its never been a real issue… do people honestly have relationship roadblocks because of this??”

      This has been my experience as well. I wonder if people really squabble about this.

      • LMNOP

        I feel like if you do, you probably don’t make it to a 51st date. Once you’re sharing living expenses, the cost of a date is not really that serious.

    • Asiyah

      Yoles I agree with you. Sagacious, as per the norm.

    • Asiyah

      I absolutely agree with you, Yoles.

  • Ijustgothere88

    Wow did after Earth flop?

    And yeah this is really not a big deal. all it takes is a lot of love, understanding, and most importantly, communication. basically “ay yo bae you got it this time?”. I do expect a man to pay. thats just a man being a man IMO. My boo always pays which i can appreciate him doing that. but he’s in Med school and working pizza delivery. so if the time came i’d be down to take care of ish. Because I know what’s really going on with him financially and not to mention he provides very well in other areas. :)

    • http://stanoffewwords.wordpress.com Tristan

      You’re a strong woman….for tolerating a ninja who says “bae”

      • gemgirl

        bwahahahha!

    • Malik

      Of course it did. No one wants to spend 2 hours looking and listening to Jaden Smith.

    • http://verysmartbrothas.com The Champ

      “Wow did after Earth flop?”

      big time. will’s worst opening weekend ever, i think

      • Eps

        Ouch

      • Marshal

        Ay, ANYTHING from M. Night Shyamalan is a Disaster, kind of the same way people feel about Tyler Perry films and sitcoms

        • Malik

          They didn’t even put his name on any of the advertisements.

      • kinghenry

        ……and Will still makes the same type of movies. He should have done Django when he had the chance

    • NomadaNare

      I went to see it. Did you really think a sci-fi movie exclusively staring black people would do well?

      • http://twitter.com/ktemjin Kaname

        Nah,the script was kinda meh *and* MNS directed which pretty much sealed the death cap on the movie.

  • Maharaja Misty

    I just happened to stop by to look @ the sites new diggs (after my long self-imposed hiatus) that PJ told me about months ago on twitter and here I see it’s this N-Words Bday. Welp I hope Panama and his elegant neck enjoy a wonderful day filled with whatever it is old bald, black dudes do! ( buy wide leg jeans, hoop earrings and Cadillac Catera’s & chase young tail @ the local shake dancer clubs?) Ionno anyway, Feliz Cumpleanos! \o/

    Anyway, Hi, I’m cheap. I got bills and a son who eats like Warren Sapp with the munchies. During the ‘courting’ stages I like to exploit whatever double standards my vagina affords me. I save money this way, & I gets free dinners and movies! However as time progresses (read: months) I usually have no problem treating occasionally, or on the occasions we are both broke, I cook. I likes to eat, I likes to cook, I likes to cook for people I like. We’re all out here tryna function, and I don’t expect the guys I date to have endless streams of income, because I sure as heck don’t. Usually I have the type of rapport with the guys I date, they have no problems saying “man I’m hurtin tho”, and arrange something we can both enjoy or afford. If they’ve had a bad week,I’ll just say it’s on me, this behavior transitions seamlessly in a relationship. How y’all will manage to complicate this and make it a convoluted contentious battle of heteronormative societal standards betwix man & woman shall be fascinating!
    Juggling accounts & finances with marriage is a bit more complex tho.

    • Kema

      “Hi, I’m cheap. I got bills and a son who eats like Warren Sapp with the munchies. During the ‘courting’ stages I like to exploit whatever double standards my vagina affords me. I save money this way, & I gets free dinners and movies! ”

      Add another son and this is me all day! lol! Yup!

      • Marshal

        This isn’t a reply to anyone, for whatever reason my comments are being posted somewhere else and not on the main thread, so Much Apologies.

        Until I ventured off to DC and attended an HBCU, I was led to believe that Men paid for EVERYTHING in Life, but it wasn’t until a chick damn near 3 years Younger pulled out her wallet and paid for her Half of the Meal at Red Lobster ( I had money saved and felt I could splurge on a date with a Tae Heckard clone). Surprised the Heck out of me and damn near made me loose out on the next 5 dates because I tried to go ” I am Man, I Will Pay”. We are still cool Friends since then…..

        I don’t know the “rules” anymore to Courting or Dating, so I try to be a Hybrid of Old-School Gentleman and 21 Century Modern Brotha. The ways which defined Masculinity and Feminine POV and character no longer are “Traditional”, and with “Gender Equality” being shouted out as much as YOLO and No New Friends BS, Women SHOULD be able to go Dutch or Pay for some Dates. IDGAD if a Woman makes more or not, Ladies can’t get to cover bases in saying Men are Emotional SIMPS & Heartless Bastards in the same breath any longer; if you’re a Feminist Taliban or as Obsidian loves to say, a Misandrist, it’s Expected like a Tea Partier using GOP talking points.

        Sorry Again, I’m off today and this is a first in almost a week I get to comment early on a post, especially a Good One

        • Asiyah

          “We are still cool Friends since then…..”

          May I ask why you are just friends? Did more happen, or did that instant of her paying her half during that date sort of a turn off? I’m genuinely curious, no shade or provocation.

          • Marshal

            We realized we were in different places; she kept her Options of Men open and chose another guy, and I ended up back with my Ex-Fiancée for another 2 1/2 years.

            It was never a turn off, just different. Women who say they are Independent and “have their own” mostly live by this mantra, as well are completely different than the extremists that have hijacked Feminism. I am not intimidated by a Successful Woman, but I think because I’m more of an Introvert and my life’s experiences also played a role and still area factor. I’m not a Macho Guy but I have my moments where I am and want to me an Alpha Person, not just an Alpha Man. My sister was taught how to play basketball, run track and fight like a Guy along with me, so I adapt to the Women I encounter, I never know if a Lady is Traditional or Modern, but I can spot a Hybrid-kind of Woman easily.

      • http://www.OpinionatedMale.com Mr SoBo

        Champ, Hey there pally. You know I love you like a blogger right? I really do. And I mean that. *endearingly pats you on shoulder* But hands down, this has got to be the worst dating advice I have ever read in my life.

        #YourStillMyHomieDoe

        • Marshal

          + a Mil @ Mr. Sobo

          Either we All are going to live by “Tradition”, be Modernized, or Individually find what Works for Self and our Partners, because all of this interchanging Rules and Unofficial Rules will get more folks hurt, pissed and cause more confusion than already exists

        • http://verysmartbrothas.com The Champ

          “Champ, Hey there pally. You know I love you like a blogger right? I really do. And I mean that. *endearingly pats you on shoulder* But hands down, this has got to be the worst dating advice I have ever read in my life.”

          men should pay for the first few dates is the worst advice you’ve ever heard?

          • http://www.OpinionatedMale.com Mr SoBo

            The general stance of the post argues that men should pay for the majority of dates during courtship, not just the “first few”.

            I’ve read some of the commentary today, and I will say the following in response to what I have seen coming from both men and women here regarding this topic. Here goes.

            If a man wants to finance a strangers entertainment that is his prerogative. It is his money, he worked for it, therefore he has the right to spend it as he chooses. However, the chest beating centered around “this is what a real man/gentleman does” needs to stop. Paying for dates is not “handling your business” because she is not your business to handle.

            Your personal sense of duty to finance her outings doesn’t make you any more of a man no more than a woman ‘putting out’ on the first date makes her any more a lady. You don’t earn stripes for routinely pulling out whats in your wallet on women you barely know. There is nothing noble or even chivalrous about such an act. Its merely to satisfy your own ego at your own literal expense. If thats your M.O., thats cool. Do you. But the subtle (and overt) shaming of men who do not subscribe to such archaic dating attitudes & practices is getting stale. Evolve.

            • Nolan Voyd

              “If a man wants to finance a strangers entertainment that is his prerogative. It is his money, he worked for it, therefore he has the right to spend it as he chooses. However, the chest beating centered around “this is what a real man/gentleman does” needs to stop. Paying for dates is not “handling your business” because she is not your business to handle.

              Your personal sense of duty to finance her outings doesn’t make you any more of a man no more than a woman ‘putting out’ on the first date makes her any more a lady. You don’t earn stripes for routinely pulling out whats in your wallet on women you barely know. There is nothing noble or even chivalrous about such an act. Its merely to satisfy your own ego at your own literal expense. If thats your M.O., thats cool. Do you. But the subtle (and overt) shaming of men who do not subscribe to such archaic dating attitudes & practices is getting stale. Evolve.”

              This x1000. I pay on the first few dates because behavior is communication. In this society and culture it communicates a different message from going dutch as evidenced by the female commenters here. AND we need to kill the shaming, the bullshit assumptions we attach to “courtship”, and the posturing around “who should pay”. With fire. Because ninjas exploit that chivalry fetish with a vengeance.

            • KENYADIGIT

              Well said.

            • Marshal

              REAL SPIT, Sobo!!!!

            • Nolan Voyd

              “However, the chest beating centered around “this is what a real man/gentleman does” needs to stop….You don’t earn stripes for routinely pulling out whats in your wallet on women you barely know. There is nothing noble or even chivalrous about such an act. ”

              This is proof positive that our understanding/criteria/perspective/paradigm of manhood is broken, myopic and troubled. In the absence of the real, we oversimplify and improvise at the same time.

            • http://obsidianraw.bravejournal.com Obsidian

              @Mr. Sobo:
              +1M

              BOOM!!!

              #Champ’sStillAnHonoraryO-Man…

              O.

              P.S. Hit me up sometime; we should talk.

            • BlueWave

              Mr. SoBo,

              You need to post more often. Your perspective is sorely needed.

    • http://verysmartbrothas.com Panama Jackson

      Thank you. And I def just bought some hoop earrings a P in them.