I was out of the country all of last week — from Sunday the 5th to Sunday the 12th — and since I had no internet access in that time, I looked forward to getting back home Monday morning and catching up on news, emails, and my usual daily reads. I did this much of the day yesterday — reading week-old tweets, diving in the archives of Slate.com and Blackgirl Online, responding to emails that the senders had already forgotten they’d even sent, etc — but it proved to be somewhat anti-climatic. Other than the fact that there was a very peculiar 72 hour window last week where everyone seemed to be very obsessed with Keri Hilson’s vagina (Keri Hilson included), nothing too remarkable seemed to happen while I was gone.
However, something did grab my attention; a pattern I really began to notice two weeks ago with a statement my cousin made during a conversation we were having about rum, relationships, and Reggie Bush:
“I cannot even tell you how long it’s been since I met a dude I was wowed by. even half wowed. or quarter wowed. or interest slightly piqued”
I noticed this phenomenon again while looking through Clutch Magazine’s recent archives, where Morgan Kelly Radford shared my cousin’s “eh”-ness about the opposite sex in “The Thoughtless Date”:
“It has been ages since I’ve been on a Thoughtless Date. Worse, it’s been ages since I’ve been excited about someone.”
I even saw more evidence of this at Racialicious, as an anonymous writer framed her general melancholy about men around an ambitious (but somewhat confusing) indictment on race and sexual attraction in “F*cking While Black [Love, Anonymously]“:
“I refuse to believe that because of my skin color, I have to live with limited options and terrible sex, or no sex. How is that fair? Why should I lower my standards and be oh-so-grateful because some 35 year-old wannabe rapper or white guy with a fetish wants to do me? Everyone else is allowed their choice, and no one is asked to compromise. Besides, sex is an amazing act that achieves its best when the two people involved sincerely want each other. Regardless if it’s love or mutual attraction, there’s no better feeling. And I won’t deprive myself of that.”
And, just to show that women aren’t the only ones writing and talking about their dissatisfaction and boredom with the seemingly vanilla “eligible” opposite sex options to choose from, I can trace all the way back to July of 2008, where I published “The V Test” — an entry centering around asking women the following question:
“If you didn’t have a vagina, if you woke up tomorrow morning and was somehow rendered completely vagina-less, would any guy still want to be cool with you?”
It makes perfect sense that I was still single when I wrote that. Why? Well, if you listen to a group of single brothas or single sistas speak about dating, it seems like many — if not most — single black men feel that most single black women are fun-policing, painfully unfunny (ha!), and painfully boring vagina monkeys, and most single black women seem to think that the typical single man is about as intriguing as a septic tank filled with empty Snickers wrappers. This phenomenon makes the dating game a never-ending company picnic where the attendance is mandatory, the half-assed barbecue ribs are almost as depressing as the urine-tinted potato salad, and the only person at the office who doesn’t make us dry heave when thinking about speaking to them either decided not to attend or was kidnapped by Aruban pirates on the way there.
Sure, we’re (generally) cordial with each other, and most of us have managed to learn how to grin and bear our way through the mating game just long enough to effectively and efficiently play the pull out game, but it seems like the only other two entities less enthused with the idea of each other than “typical single black man” and “typical single black women” are “Bishop Long” and “p*ssy“.
I was planning on using this — the fact that very few single black people seem to be excited about or happy with the idea of each other — as an indictment on increasingly entitled African-American culture. I was even going to write a couple paragraphs articulating that everyone (myself included) is much more average and much, much less exceptional than we think we are, and I was going to explain how this reluctance to accept this average-ness is making the dating game about as fun as a public colonoscopy. (And, one day, I’ll probably go down this road)
But, right now I’m more interested in finding out what we can do to get us excited about each other again. And yes, I do think we do need to find a way to be excited about each other. I mean, unless we discover a new planet of new people in the next years, we’re all we have to choose from, so we need to find a way to make ourselves more attractive to each other before the Tea Party people ruin the planet.
Also (and this has been on my mind for a while), is this, this mating malaise, just the way it’s always been, and are we just the first generation to actually express it? Sh*t, maybe our grandparents felt the exact same way we all seem to, but were they just too busy churning butter and fighting off plagues of locusts to actually say anything?
The carpet is yours.
—The Champ
I think it’s because many single black people have this acquiesce to defeat when it comes to dating.
“I think it’s because many single black people have this acquiesce to defeat when it comes to dating.”
And they forget about love.
I know its corny… but I have read through all the post and the comments from the various links and I am left with the question what about love.
We talk about who is paying, who is giving up the sex, height, azz size, hair and nails did and head game… but we don’t talk about what gets us to love.
If your head is centered around a check list of must haves that lead to you being alone is that what you should be looking for.
How can you fall in love if you can’t even get a handle on what you really need.
I think it was easier in the past in part due to looking at relationship qualities that could be maintained over the long haul.
In the past they thought in terms of for better or worse, richer or poorer, sickness and health… and what the other person would need so they could accomplish that goal.
Now it seems we don’t believe in much and expect relationships to come with expiration dates, and there is this poverty mentality that I better get everything that I can before the other person gets me.
You can’t love with both hands closed and taking
People back then were very clear on who they would be in a relationship… nurturer, provider, and the characteristics that would balance the role that they wanted.
I find that the difference today is we aren’t really honest about what is compatible with our character and skill set… instead we focus on what we desire.
In my mind I would love to have a beach house in Carmel… but the reality is I couldn’t afford the upkeep and have no desire currently to uproot my life to integrate the dream into my lifestyle.
It would be fun for a week or so several times a year if I could get away… after that it would get to be a burden, because I couldn’t bear the cost.
Modern relationships have become the same way.
We don’t know ourselves so we can’t get to know someone else and to even see how they would fit.
We can’t find each other because we approach each other as enemies… its hard to date if you are defensive, angry…
And afraid all the time ~JS
I LOVE this comment- spot on!
We talk about who is paying, who is giving up the sex, height, azz size, hair and nails did and head game… but we don’t talk about what gets us to love. .
Yes, yes and more yes!
I get sooooo tired of this talk. Seriously. If anything I think we spend too much time talking about bs and not really meeting people and getting to know them. People make the dating game waaayyy harder than it needs to be. I don’t get it. I also find the ones out here complaining the most, to be the most unfilled (like Champ said).
I bow out of most of the talk because it’s been discussed to the point of ad nauseum. That’s the problem, people talk too much. About irrelevant sh*t,.
“If anything I think we spend too much time talking about bs and not really meeting people and getting to know them”
I think that it is so much easier to meet someone and start a relationship when you know them.
I think so much of our fear is based on the unknown and I think that if we lead with some honest compatibility conversations we wouldn’t get bored or disappointed so quick.
Because I hear a lot of superficial screening questions but what is important to that individual…
Because real life is a mofo…
What happens when Ms. Phat Booty gets breast cancer… or Daddy Long stroke needs a kidney… what if it happens to a kid you two have…
Are we really screening for ride or die partners is the question or just somebody to go to the movies with and sex up afterwards.
It amazes me that we share our bodies and finances with people we can’t even hold a decent conversation with, let alone know anything about them like family…
I wonder when did getting to know someone become a privilege ~JS
“If anything I think we spend too much time talking about bs and not really meeting people and getting to know them. People make the dating game waaayyy harder than it needs to be.”
I think that people’s past experiences have put them in “safe mode” when they meet new peeps. Our baggage doesn’t allow us to feel safe enough to genuinely be open about ourselves without fear of rejection and/or judgement. Sure that’s a natural protective response, however, have we taken it to an extreme?
In this day and age, everyone (pardon the sweeping generalization) is in the business of playing the dating GAME and therefore follow these mostly ridiculous rules – Ask suchandsuch on date 1, thisandthat on date 5, never inquire about so on and so forth, etc. What ever happened to letting things happen organically? Just have a conversation about random things and let the chips fall where they may!
Our baggage doesn’t allow us to feel safe enough to genuinely be open about ourselves without fear of rejection and/or judgement. .
I think this is valid. Maybe I just don’t have this huge fear of rejection/judgment/scared of being hurt. Rejection happens all the time in some way shape and form. And sometimes your feelings get hurt. But this is in all aspects of life. You can’t truly experience the good without also experiencing the bad. Life happens and more importantly life goes on.
Just have a conversation about random things and let the chips fall where they may! .
I am right there with you!
Life happens and more importantly life goes on.
THIS.
I think people are over-intellectualizing the whole dating/relationship thing. Just live your life and what will happen will.
Ditto most definitely to this!!..
“I think people are over-intellectualizing the whole dating/relationship thing. Just live your life and what will happen will.”
I am very logical and at times overly analytical about the Dating Process and in essence LOVE. Been hurt more times than I would like. But I am learning that life and Love is all a growing process…..
Sometimes in life you fall off your bike and scrape your knee. But its up to you whether or not you keep laying down or like my girl Aaliyah “Dust yourself off and Try Again”
“I think people are over-intellectualizing the whole dating/relationship thing”
Big co-sign! It amazes me how many people I meet that have these crazy requirements for getting into a relationship. Love doesn’t work that way. People would much happier if they let themselves go. And too many people are focusing on their job and money. When I went to DC to visit my sister, every person I met only talked about their job. It made for boring conversations and instantly turned me off.
Guilty of this too!! Safe mode has become my go to/fall back plan when I feel myself getting scared of those frightful things called…..”feelings!” I never completely let a person see all of me because I am afraid they will hurt me.
I am only 25, so I know I have a long way to go!
Guilty as well! This post has become an eye opener for me…
This was definitely NOT corny. So true. What happened to the love? I ask myself that all the time. We don’t even consider it as a possibility anymore. I am so guilty of this. I dont have a check list when it comes to a mate. All I want is to find someone that really sees ME … and loves me anyway.
“All I want is to find someone that really sees ME … and loves me anyway.”
And when you get down to it isn’t that what we all are looking for and hoping to find.
You know I have rejected guys for many reasons but it was never because of their height, income or where we went to dinner…
If I rejected a guy it was because he didn’t get me and we didn’t fit. ~JS
@JS
That was very thoughtful and genuine, thanks for the maturity!
This^^^ is spot on, JS. Co-Sign all day!
This^^^ is spot on. Co-Sign all day!
Well said jhane. Too many people want to play the blame game ( not a kanye reference) rather than being accountable for what they’re not bringing to the situation.
Love is the problem.
The search for immediate and early love is what causes so many people to abandon the work and commitment to seeing a realtionship (or even just a strong holler) through. I’m guilty of it too.
All those people, our great and great-great grandparents, who got married by the time they were 19 back in the day – you think they were *all*, or even *mostly* fully in love with each other the day they got married?
I doubt it.
But by the time one of the spouses died, I’m sure many or most of them were, though.
“All those people, our great and great-great grandparents, who got married by the time they were 19 back in the day – you think they were *all*, or even *mostly* fully in love with each other the day they got married?”
Yeah for a lot of them because it was a first love type of thing…
Don’t you remember being in love at 19 and how all consuming that could be.
I think what grew was their commitment… that was the thing that kept them together
Love just helped them find each other ~JS
“I think what grew was their commitment… that was the thing that kept them together”
To this I would add that there is a malaise about dating..but about marriage as well, to the point where people are giving up on marriage way too soon.
I think people have this idea or fantasy of what love and marriage is supposed to be like and aren’t patient, committed or even like the person enough to put in the actual work of a long term relationship or marriage.
This goes back to your question: “What gets us to love?” We should also ask..”What gets us to like.” The kind of like that when the ‘love, lust, desire’ is challenged, that we still want to stay.
What gets us to like.” The kind of like that when the ‘love, lust, desire’ is challenged, that we still want to stay.
I totally feel you on this. I know it might sound weird but I always ask parents if they like their children. Of course they say they love them but its personality and characteristics that they have; that in fact they’re helping to create, that makes them a lil person and someone they want to be around. The same could kind of be said in a relationship, you could love a person all day but if you like that person, thats who you keep around, thats the person you stick it out with because of their personality and that thing that makes them fun and exciting and interesting. People hurt the ones they love all day, they even have sayings if you love it let it go and all that. None of that is said about a person that you like. And if we go back to that feeling of when we were first interested in the opposite sex or same sex if thats how you roll, we liked that person first and foremost and everything became complicated with the idea of love and all that it was supposed to be. So yeah I agree and I think the question should be more how do we get back to liking each other
High Five!!
I feel like I might as well stop reading rightchere.
Interesting thoughts.
I may actually use some of this insight in my own future endeavours. . . .or try to nurse my current one back to health.
Can I just say that I live to read your comments on here? Cuz I do (well, not really, but still).
I love love. I love black people and I especially love black men. All their faults, promise, achievements, struggles. I love it all. It is the direct compliment to my existence and I want a black man above all. Not opposed to dating outside the race, but because I love black men and I’m not afraid to SHOW IT, I’ve never had the need to do so.
I wish more black women would stop with the pride thing, learn how to be loving with our men and not confuse loving them with coddling or overlooking or settling, because it’s not the same thing.
The same thing that we want from them, we should be willing to give as well.
I am so feelin what you wrote there Mo-VSS.
I feel the same way about sistahs. I’ve dated and even married a non-African American woman (filipina…in case you wondered), but at the end of the day, I’m just more interested in a sister. It’s everything… the way you look, your walk, the smell of your skin, but most of all, how sister LOVE. Their love is just …different. It has a layer of acceptance and understanding of an African American man’s condition that is just …not… there… for other women.
Big up on the Pro Bro love! I wish more Brothers would loss the whole “mackin’” thing. A lot of sisters are just on defense from what some idiot playboy did. Or someone who was never taught to love. Too many of our folks were never loved at all/ abused or spoiled rotten and have far too high of an opinion what they bring to the table. The ones who were raised right get driven nuts by people in the first two categories. Out of all this some healthy couples still emerge. All I can say is keep trying. I’ve been dating outside the race for a sec now but always with a twinge (a stabbing pain, really) of guilt. I’ll never stop loving my sisters and will always date them but sometimes they just don’t seem interested. This article was really helpful. Thanks
Thank you Jhane Sez! Everything you wrote hits it on the head!
Jhane,
With all due respect, your comment does not in any way address Champ’s central points in the least. What he is discussing is the very real sense of OVER ENTITLEMENT that has found its way into the African American community, and is quite frankly, quite problematic. While Champ may have been a bit too coy to say so outright I suffer no9 such inhibitions; while there is something to be said for some Brothas out there being a bit too ego-inflated for their own good, the jury’s in – Sistas definitely have a huge problem in this regard, and by all accounts, doesn’t look to abate anytime soon. And its something that they need to address, pronto – unless they like the idea of making frequent trips to Petco to stock up on cat food and kitty litter.
Please try again – and this time, focus, like a laserbeam…
O.
“I think it’s because many single black people have this acquiesce to defeat when it comes to dating.”
i see someone’s a fan of “kill bill”
kill bill is life
I love the blog in general but I disagree with this post. I am a black man who was ran through by my black ex-wife. I may be in the minority here, but I refuse to beleive that we as black folks have a “malaise” towards eachother when it comes to dating and relationships. It may be because I was raised by my mom or that I went to Howard, but I don’t see it. Black women are the end all be all to me. This is not a ploy to pull chicks or anything like that (is it working ?lol) I could never see myself dating a non-black woman. The commonalities are just not there for me. However, this is my opinion, I’d love to hear yours.
I can’t speak for the frequency of it, but I’ve felt the malaise. My exact feelings were based around meeting men that were all about $ex, just trying to fvck, even at 30+ years old. The game and dialogue that came with it was lame and It was so frustrating. I was (maybe “am”) disillusioned with men in general. (I love black men as well, that’s my only option as far as I’m concerned.) I’m open, and I got past this by giving guys I may have overlooked a chance. It worked, but it’s hard being a woman that wants a *partner*, wants to commit, and getting nothing but dudes trying to be gigalos.
Big Cosign @WIP!! I don’t get it either. I am a single, educated, 25 year old Black female. The dating scene just seems so bleak at times. The men my age only seem to be interested in playstation, video hoes, and sex. Don’t get me started on FB!! OR what text messaging is doing to modern day relationships.
True story: My last serious relationship was with a young black male marine. The majority of our relationshop occured through text messages. We even broke up through one! With that said, in my opinion so many misunderstandings and inconsistencies occur because people are just not comfortable (or just won’t) talk to one another. Or even just spend some quality one on one time getting to eachother without talking about the lastest hot topics on Facebook!
Ehhhhhhh….. Frustration!!
One thing i would suggest is nixing the social networking so soon into meeting someone. I cant tell you how many times I thought someone was interesting at first glance but after looking over their facebook pages a few (million) times I no longer felt the need to get to know them… technology is in some ways contributing to this lack of spark in the dating game… its just not fun anymore
Never thought of this. I’m definitely going to keep this in mind.
the game of getting to know some1 is shot to hell. i remember i realllly was digging one guy and after i looked over his page little things like his research trip to africa were all explained to me via his album. every question i had about it was answered in his captions… needless to say next time we met up convo was kinda dry–i already knew too much.. that hunger for more was gone
I agree! technology has accelerated the dating process to the point that you can get someone name and general info and immediately go home and google/facebook them and know/find out everything about them. so you already have a opinion/view of them ahed of time.
I have a good friend that was a insurance investigator and she has still has access to various record databases. when she meets guy she runs their info and finds their background smh. she claim she does it for her safety but damn is it that serious??
It’s hard to know who you can trust now a days, especially when every other story in the media is designed to scare us into continuing to watch. I understand people wanting to know more about who they’re dealing with before they find themselves in a compromised position. Pop quiz: Would you rather identify the person you’re seeing as a registered sex offender before the first date, or after you’ve developed an emotional connection?
I agree! technology has accelerated the dating process to the point that you can get someone name and general info and immediately go home and google/facebook them and know/find out everything about them. so you already have a opinion/view of them ahed of time.
I have a good friend that was a insurance investigator and she has still has access to various record databases. when she meets guy she runs their info and finds their background smh. she claim she does it for her safety but damn is it that serious??
yeah, i’d have to agree…don’t friend them right off the rip. after you’ve looked through their entire profile, the thrill is gone, what else is there to learn about them?
I have to respectfully disagree with you guys about your “curiosities” for people. What’s mysterious about ALL human beings is that which has not been revealed. You go to my facebook page (John Nicholson) and I give you my “past”….and “some” of my current. I change EVERYDAY – and that might be noted as instability to some, but my view (which matters most because I know my outcome) reflects that we are always in the state of transformation. Nothing last forever…not even the emotional and sexual high that I can provide.
It serves a very minute and unfulfilling purpose to know x-amount of information and feel as if you KNOW the person. You have a “baseline” (foundation of knowledge). Some people (like myself) have more to themselves than what’s broadcasted. And I have a LOT to broadcast because of the choices I’ve made. Can you honestly say that you know yourself today and that you will remain unchanged till you’re 40? Baby, I hope not…or else consider yourself predictable as the people you are likely to diss (if applicable). There are some very multifaceted individuals on this planet, and to limit ourselves based on what we broadcast is very self defeating.
Ladies and gents….it’s unwise to reference facebook as a valuable (and credible) source of informaton about someone. What about my sex life?! I’m not a sex god….but I AM a sex demi-god who’s sensual and caring. My facebook page wouldnt reveal that. My facebook page wouldnt reveal that I’m going to be a contractor in Afghanistan next year or that I will be purchasing a home in San Diego California in two years….or even that I plan on going on a cruise mid summer 2011 and that I need a partner who has the sexual vitality of Queen Nefertiti on Red Bull. [all except the first is supportive and not real lol]
Don’t use past and current information as the summary of an individual period….(you can, of course, just advising not to avoid a discomforting revelation). The exciting thing about getting to know someone is the UNKNOWN that not even the self knows about. We have a subconscious that contains loads of personality and many of us will live into our 60′s. You never EVER completely know a person…even after they die, there are still secrets to uncover.
By the way…boredom is a subjective term – I could say your head game is boring but another guy may think it’s bananas. Keep an open mind (taps head).
“One thing i would suggest is nixing the social networking so soon into meeting someone.”
see, i think you can still reading a person’s facebook profile and have no idea about them. i mean, sure you know they like “Miller’s Crossing” and “Catch 22″, but you don’t actually know WHY they like these things until you actually talk to them, and the why is always more important than the what
I don’t really agree with this. You can look at my FB page a million times and not even scratch the surface at beginning to know me. You may pick up clues, but please don’t think you know me through FB alone.
In the words of my locked up homie TI ? ? You might see me on the book but ninja you don’t know me ? ?
And not only that if you look at a FB profile and still can’t make conversation, that may say something about you. If you’re bored from that alone, think about how bored you would be after being with somone for years….I mean since you know them and everything.
No offense to your homie..but we know enough about TI to know that he went to jail..left jail..and is going back. :/
There are certain things that people put out in public (or is put out about them) that is enough to place doubt about their character. And although it would be a shame to miss out on a great person by judging the book by it’s cover- people do it all the time.
V Renee…I agree 100%.
While technology is definitely a killer to relationships if used in the wrong way, we rely waaayyy too much on it to guide us in what we do. Technology can only be part of the issue…it’s what you choose or don’t choose to do with the information found out via technology that makes or breaks you.
If I see your fb page and I can’t make convo with you, then I wasn’t into you to begin with. Simple as that. But, you can blame technology for a lack of spark…it’s as simple as you felt it or you didn’t. Period
I recommend to my friends not to add potential suitors/dates to their FB pages or any other social networking sites… The whole dating process is to get to know someone and if we (think we) know them already by looking at their Spring Break pictures circa 1999, then we are less inclined to want to know more…
There’s a line in “She’s out of my League.” One of the guys says, “I’m a 6, she’s a 10–in the end, I just couldn’t cover the spread.”
I think perhaps folks are less excited about each other because of a lack of self-awareness. Truly, there are a lot of folks out here not willing to participate in pay-grade love. I think the “reluctance to accept this averageness” will keep quite a few people single. That’s unless they wake up one day and jump in their pay grade.
Lori Gottlieb got a lot of flack b/c she eluded to this last year in her “Marry Him” book. But I swear, she was on point with her assessment that folks need to get over themselves if they want to end up in solid partnerships. People are running around here like they’re a commodity and they’re not.
Some may not like this one here, Champ. Its a post that can lead some down that path that looks like truth??? Who wants that *i kid, i kid*
I completely agree. Champ mentioned this in one of his previous posts abt why so women are having these ridiculous standards. A lot of educated ppl have access to many people that just seemed unattainable before. Going to the school I went to, every guy I know is either a professional athlete, attorney, doctor, actuary, or has some other great career. So I know a lot of females I went to college with who have these standards when looking for men. The average guy is boring and no one wants him. I think people need to go back to not necessarily looking at what the person does or can bring to the table and just start having fun being courted.
PS-that last sentence sounded hella emo…
“Lori Gottlieb got a lot of flack b/c she eluded to this last year in her “Marry Him” book”
what exactly did she say?
she said the big bad ‘S’ word…settle!!!
but i’m confused by all of these comments. accept that your average? huh? wait, whats the scale?
can someone explain further because im reading that people should realize that they suck and settle for someone who sucks just as much. or else live a life full of unhappiness.
but if one were to assess themselves and realize they really dont have that much to offer so they find someone who is in their ‘range’ (again, who is setting these standards), wouldn’t they still live a life of unhappiness.
i guess my question is: doesn’t settling mean you’re still as empty handed as you were when your standards were high?
IMO, settling is learning the difference between needs and wants. What most of us actually need is a lot less than what we want. You ever see the people on House Hunters? There in this fabulous house and they’ll say “oooh, I don’t know, I’m not crazy about those countertops…” when that’s the most random, unimportant feature in the house. At some point, we realize what’s important. some of us get it handed to us. Some of us have to search a litte harder to figure it out.
I love somebody who can make an HGTV reference! I stay on HGTV and DIY way too much. To the point where I’m decorating real people’s houses in my mind.
Plus I completely agree with what you are saying in your post.
lmao! i do watch House Hunters and great example by the way cuz i do understand now.
“but i’m confused by all of these comments. accept that your average? huh? wait, whats the scale?
can someone explain further because im reading that people should realize that they suck and settle for someone who sucks just as much. or else live a life full of unhappiness.”
i think many of us put a lot of mental and emotional pressure on ourselves to make 100 percent sure we’re not “settling”, happiness-deading pressure that really isn’t all that necessary.
“she was on point with her assessment that folks need to get over themselves if they want to end up in solid partnerships. People are running around here like they’re a commodity and they’re not.”
I agree with this assessment. Going a step further, I think Capitalism is why we are no longer satisfied with dating.
When we get accustomed to paying $8,000 for a car, someone comes up with $7,999 because it sounds cheaper.
Why pay $2.49 for a bag of flour, when we can get two for only $5.00?
Why drive that boring Honda sedan when you can have the Ultimate Driving Machine?
We are offered two for the (inflated) price of one.
If we act now they’ll throw in this, that, and the other for free.
Why settle for your mundane existence when you can have…the world.
Marketers are constantly telling us that we can have more. If you work here you’ll have more pay and more benefits. If you go to this school you’ll have more job opportunities. If you come to our seminar you can get more out of life. Everything is more, more, more…if not more, it’s new AND improved.
From birth we are being conditioned to want more and are told that the more we have the better off we are. Our ancestors were conditioned to give and taught that it is far better to give than to receive. They weren’t bombarded with 24 hours of non-stop marketing suggesting that they should do more, experience more, buy more, or have more. They were instructed to ask not what their country could do for them, but ask what they could do for their country.
Now that we are conditioned to want more, we apply this ideology to all aspects of our lives, including dating. Why date a guy on a teacher’s salary when you could date a CEO? Why date a girl who doesn’t give head when you could date someone who’s head game is proper AND she’ll cook for you. Why date a guy who has never been outside of the New Orleans city limits when you could date someone who has taken three vacations to Europe this year?
Being average is not enough. Nevermind that most of us are average at best, we want the whole package, the exception to the rules. When you have a society of 1000’s of average people chasing the 10 people who are above average, and they refuse to concede anything, you end up with a frustrated populace with a pipe dream and a few good eggs left.
Considering that most of us are average, it’s still an enhancement to our lives to add someone else who is average, but with different experiences. Please buy my new book that comes out Tuesday, it’s inspired by this blog site and is entitled, “Settle, Bitches!”
From birth we are being conditioned to want more and are told that the more we have the better off we are.
i get into this argument with non Americans all the time who think that modern America and capitalism is the devil’s work.
wanting more isn’t conditioned, i believe its biological. wanting more is not new to our generation. how did we get from the first wheel to the airplane? how did we get from fire to microwaves? this isn’t new age, this is ancient. i would even say human nature. as a matter of fact, imma say it…human nature!!!
also, dont hate on capitalism. lol.
We passed the threshold of basic needs, though.
Once we passed that threshold (at least 30 or 40 years ago), love took over as the driving force and many of us are suffering as a result.
It appears that I didn’t full explain my concept; thanks for pointing that out. It is not so much that capitalism is the enemy, but moreso the in-your-face, over-the-top, persistent marketing campaigns that capitalism fuels. To be successful in capitalism’s free market, your product has to standout above the others. You constantly have to push the envelope to show that yours is better, faster, longer, improved, more. So yes, this push becomes the catalyst for getting us from wanting a house, to wanting a house with a garage, to wanting a house with a three car garage, to….whatever comes next. The same push carries over to our dating lives. The house is just not good enough any more, because there’s got to be a product out there that offers…more.
Yooooo I was just talking about this same concept a few weeks ago. Capitalism reflects “competition”. And yes, love is now a competitive market. Not only has love become competitive but the “unconditional” terms in which it’s supposed to “naturally” operate/exist has been tainted with conditional exhibitions. Can’t love without trust, yet the mentality of the love captialist is “trust is earned, not deserved”. Well shit…in that case, where it the love when someone hates you? Capitalism births infinite opportunities for the “individual” who’s “ambitious”, but what about the individual who is content and purposeful? Do I need to have the biggest house, the latest car, the most expensive clothes, and the most successful job to have happiness and peace!!? DAYUM! Do I need to need these things to facilitate a grandiose love life full of excitement, luster, unpredictibility, security, and substance? Love used to be deserved, but now….if you give it, there’s a contract/obligaton associated with it. There’s also this degrading view that love has an expiration date……metaphorically speaking, the love that you give me today will not work for me next week despite the happiness that it brung.
Yes, indeed bruh…you and I are on the same wavelength. Capitalism serves its purpose….but it gives very little sunlight to those who aren’t over achievers and retain some of the spiritual and romantic substance of our ancestors. The only way to preserve some of the dating substance that exists is well…bridging the gap between what was and what is….believing in the “fundamentals” of love. Watch a damn movie and imitate. Be creative vs. ambitious.
Props to ya bruh
Given that there are so many ways of looking at an average, should we define it? Relativity is a bitch. So when you say average are you talking about the Mean, Median, or is average between -1 and 1 standard deviation? The way you look at “averageness” will influence how you feel about yourself and dating prospects. Right?
I don’t remember much from my statistics class because I was pledging during that time which made it difficult to stay awake in class…that coupled with the fact that I didn’t buy the book made me appreciate having a strongly cordial relationship with my professor from whom I’d taken other classes…but I’ve digressed.
For the sake of this conversation, I’d be willing to go with the assessment of between -1 and 1 standard deviation as the definition of average as compared to the median household for the middle class in your region per the most recent census data. Aside from that, factoring in basic personality differences and a chemistry of connection, I’d say that once you have found chemistry with someone who is at least average looking in per your opinion, don’t let the often arbitrary criteria of wanting more relegate that person to friendship only- especially once you have defined your personal station in life in comparison. I think it is nice to “date up” if you can, but don’t let that pursuit assuage and derail your happiness.
I think about 68% of us should be within 1 standard deviation right? (something like that). Those odds sound pretty good, LOL.
Aight Now Statistics 101!! LOL! I hear you!
Cab..this comment is soooo on point! I agree 100%. We live in a “I deserve” world. But honestly, if we all got what we DESERVED, we’d all be bitter and angry. LOL.
But, seriously the whole notion of “options” for options sake is tired and played. We all have options…and we need to realize that we don’t have to always exercise them.
It’s the deal or no deal syndrome. I used to hate watching that show when the banker would offer the contestant like 100K and the audience would be shouting “no deal” and I was like, “uhm…two cases left? Why not take the good deal, sure thing, better than what you came in with money and stop playing the game?” That’s how I think. Why not take the sure thing and stop playing the game? But, we’re so conditioned to “explore all options” that we miss what’s in front of us…and then when it’s gone we want to be salty about it.
When folks realize that the grass isn’t greener on the other side, it’s greener where you water it, we’ll all be better off!
Great post Mo-VSS. I could not agree more.
If more people would keep their own yard watered and cut, you would not be worried about your neighbors grass.
That’s why I keep my sprinkler running….
Good post!
The Deal No Deal analogy served your explanation well. But as Cab explained…when that peer pressure/external influence is weighing like 2.5 tons and you’re 159lbs 5’5….sometimes you fold because ironically you weren’t “strong” enough to say…
“ok….I’m done flexing and fronting. Let’s take it to the house” (drops weight of peer pressure and collects earnings).
Ambition is a product of ego…..and you can’t help but feel good when that ego gets stroked because it appears to “care” about your well being so much. It pacifies the judgment scars inflicted by others. Crazy enough….there are many women who support the egos of men. It becomes viral when humble men see that having an “ego” works….so the develop one and join the club.
@Caballerso
Dang. I wish I saw this earlier. Cosignage.
In yesterdays post I was trying to emphasize the impact conditioning has had on our dating attitudes, perceptions and expectations. It has polluted our minds regarding something that is innately not that complex.
I thought I may have been alone on that frontier. Nice to see now that I’m not. Really tho, cosignage to tha third.
“folks need to get over themselves if they want to end up in solid partnerships. People are running around here like they’re a commodity and they’re not.”
Like I mentioned below, when people are not, essentially, forced to partner with someone by society or by conditions (hard life, social conditioning, shaming, extreme expecations by friends and family, etc.) they will dilly dally.
I’m doing it too.
Top of my head, I can think of at least 5 girls I’ve met in the last 4 years whom I could quite possibly be married to right now. But because I don’t *have* to get married, I keep trying to do better.
I think another thing that’s happening too is that many women who were born after, say 1965, or so, seem to be quite conscious of the fact that they’re the first couple of generations of women in history who really can live life totally on their own and make it work, more or less. It’s like the feeling of losing alot of weight, going clothes shopping and realizing you can buy anything you want because it’s all in your size and you can fit it now. There’s a tendency to go hog wild and take stuff too far.
Ok, maybe that analogy doesn’t fully work, but that last sentence is what I’m trying to say.
It’s blowing the collective ego up.
That consiousness is cau
“Top of my head, I can think of at least 5 girls I’ve met in the last 4 years whom I could quite possibly be married to right now. But because I don’t *have* to get married, I keep trying to do better.”
This statement, albeit honest and totally personal, is kind of why I am bored with men I meet. I want to have a partner and raise a family. That’s a value to me. But unfortunately many of the men for whom that is also a value have already done that. The ones that remain play and date because they can. And while that’s a legitimate decision, its not one that interests me. I don’t know the last time I met a 30 y-o black man who said I am seriously interested in getting married and having kids–as a value not and not just on some crazy game type ish. In most of the 5 year plans of men I meet, there is no vision of babies and homelife, just monetary or personal professional gain. I could understand that at 25. But 30? These days we have are numbered. You cannot look for love, I agree, but what about maintaining conditions for yourself in which love could grow? I am utterly bored with the men I meet because they seem way too materialistic and self-absorbed. There is nothing wrong with wanting to date because you can, but what about your legacy? What about family? What about love? What happened to that?
I think we’re talking about 2 slightly different things, though.
You’re talking about dudes who don’t want to get married right now (30+ y.o).
I’m talking about wanting to marry a woman that blows my mind in multiple ways. If I connect with her next week, I could easily see myself married to that woman as soon as it makes sense to get married (i.e., after we’ve gotten to know each other well and have been together at least a year and a half.)
Hmmmm
A handfull of 27-32 year old guys I meet (3 friends, and 2 guys I’ve dated) who date women they could marry, but still are waiting for the one who sets off that “spark” get played by the sparkers, and come out begging to be done right by the women they once passed over.
And some of them were FOINE…foine but went to lookin super played to the point where their self-esteem and self-respect were ruined along with their attractiveness. And all by females, who unbeknownst to them, did not really want them, either because they just wanted to run the game on them or after a while realized they just were not compatible personality-wise. But you know, whatever, don you, Good Luck with that greener grass…
“I don’t know the last time I met a 30 y-o black man who said I am seriously interested in getting married and having kids–as a value not and not just on some crazy game type ish.”
All this. They don’t value marriage. I say “they”, but many people don’t. I don’t believe this is a phenomenon of black men either.
Agreed. Its not just black folks. It’s people in general.
Scipio, i feel what you’re saying so thanks for the clarification. i understood you to have said that you would have married these women, but i guess you are just saying they were marriable not that you wanted to marry them? idk. it seems to me that if you met someone marriable, why not marry them? if you view marriage as a value, why not make the plunge? conversely, if you felt no spark, why were the marriable? if that is one of your criteria, it would seem they didn’t truly fit. if that’s what you mean then i feel you completely. a paper list of what you want to marry doesn’t always feel the same in real life, and definitely can leave you feeling shortchanged. there are totally intangibles that you probably couldn’t distill if you wanted to. i guess my point was that i frequently met men who aren’t even thinking like that; who are dating women who fit their list and then some but because getting married isn’t a value, they just enjoy the good times but are never fulfilled. i feel like for them, they will never find what they want until they decide what they are looking for. which is not to say they or anyone should be thirsty, but it should be ok to set marriage as a goal in life. and i rarely hear men or women admit that its a goal or value that they desire, i guess for fear of sounding thirsty. but it seems to be as a legitimate of a choice as wanting to be single. if more people were upfront with themselves, they might find less of their own time wasted and therefore less bored with their choices. maybe. *lebron shrug*
Black family values are broken in a lot of cases. Everything you just wrote would be some peoples first time hearing it. Some sick percentage of Black folks never have seen a functioning family unit.
Top of my head, I can think of at least 5 girls I’ve met in the last 4 years whom I could quite possibly be married to right now. But because I don’t *have* to get married, I keep trying to do better.
That’s the kind of honesty people need to offer when coed groups have this discussion. I know lots of women (myself included) who have NEVER heard a man say anything this candid. I don’t know about the rest of the girls out here but I need this kind of info to stay sane and to not take rejection so personally.
I wonder this myself during the year. An increasing “whisper” of disappointment with each other. I been out of he game too long to deal with it first hand but your right. There is this strange loop of not living up to the other standards.
I think a good step is to start ignoring alot of the articles that shoot down the opposite sex. Other than that I can’t really think of anything. I remember when I was single (asking God for gf, lol) it just clicked and I stop looking, focused more time on self-improvement and being a good friend. Then all of a sudden I got dates and met my SO. Honestly, I’m not sure how that work……..
Ugh I feel like im not helping
“I think a good step is to start ignoring alot of the articles that shoot down the opposite sex. Other than that I can’t really think of anything. I remember when I was single (asking God for gf, lol) it just clicked and I stop looking, focused more time on self-improvement and being a good friend.”
i think you have a point. i think many of these articles and much of this discussion has folks focusing on the collective instead of just focusing on themselves and the people they happen to meet.
much of this discussion has folks focusing on the collective instead of just focusing on themselves and the people they happen to meet.
This is exactly right. I was a Thanksgiving party a couple of weeks ago, and we were a bunch of young, professional black people. Some coupled up, some not… We were having a conversation about love, dating, relationships etc… One of my girlfriend (single) kept referring to the state of marriage and how people are quick to divorce nowadays. My other (married) girlfriend replied that we the success rate of a relationship shouldn’t be measured in length but in terms of happiness i.e how happy are the people in said marriage… which I agree with. My take was, what did it even matter for my single friend what other folks were doing with their marriage? I mean whether they were quitting too early or not committed enough shouldn’t really affect her and her dating patterns? Why not focus on what it is that you are looking for and what type of person you would like to be with and what makes you happy? Caring about the state of the collective union doesn’t do much about your single case.
I think this needs to be said more often. Focus on you. Let other people make their own life decisions and focus on making the best ones for yourself.
“I stop looking, focused more time on self-improvement and being a good friend. Then all of a sudden I got dates and met my SO.”
this is it right here, just relaxing and not being pressed. when you’re not looking for someone, you’re more open to just having fun and getting to know people for who they really are. every serious relationship i’ve been in has started as casual dating/hooking up; if he called me afterward then great, if not whatever. if he turned out to be worthy, he earned the right to wife me up. if not, we could just be friends or just get our rocks off every once in a while. and the men i ended up choosing to date turned out to be really great guys and good partners, who i’m still cool with to this day.
i do realize that since i’m young (24) i can afford to have this attitude because i’m not worried about my biological clock or anything, but i would encourage people- even those older than me- to just chill out a little bit. the vibe you give off is so much more attractive when you’re not pressed.
i support the idea of taking a breather and focusing on themselves. but mainly because i have these thoughts about the great race to eternal monogamous love being somewhat of a setup. if you dont meet your soulmate, or your perfect match and have epic ‘we’ll be reincarnated as birds’ love, then so what. then what happens? that doesnt mean you wont have love in your life or fruitful relationships or success.
“if you dont meet your soulmate, or your perfect match and have epic ‘we’ll be reincarnated as birds’ love, then so what. then what happens?”
Amen! I preach this to my girlfriends all the time. Quit acting like your life will have no meaning or significance if you don’t have a man. Of course, it would be wonderful to have a person to share your life with but you gonna wait until you’re on your death bed to do something with all the other parts of your life? Have adventures on your own, travel, take classes, etc.
I’m single now and have been for quite a while. I’d really love to have a special someone to share it with but I’m not gonna twiddle my thumbs waiting. I make a list at the start of every year of things I want to accomplish and work to make that happen. If someone great comes along, then fantastic but if someone doesn’t, then my life will still be full and contented.
A wise man and counselor told me that life is the main course and relationships/marriage is the dessert. If you make you, your life, etc., the best main course there is, dessert will take care of itself.
So I would suggest you invest your time and effort into making your life the best it can be, and when you are positive and exuding all that positive energy, the rest will come. And in the meantime, you will be happier and more positive while you wait.
once you reach a certain age and have dated a few times the dating game just becomes mundane. It’s like everything that can be said between two people has already been said and everything that can be done has already been done. The dating game just becomes monotonous. Every guy just wants to categorize the pssy he would never, want to, would,might, definitely will try to effe. While some females are either desperately looking for marriage or finding themselves. Its all played out.
Yet here I am. In a relationship… And 7 steps away from marriage. The only thing that set him apart was he actually made me…. Ugh he gave me my first happy ending…
Lol among other things lol
” And 7 steps away from marriage.”
Will you please detail these steps? Inquiring minds wanna know…
Step 1 – me not being scared to even talk about marriage. He talks about it alot. His faith in marriage is so much stronger than mine, and I believe its because his parents have been married 25 + years. My parents barely speak. I honestly believe when my dad finished donating the the only thing that came to his mind was at least he gets more money back on his taxes. I have yet to experience a successful marriage. Ive seen plenty of failed marriages.
Step 2 thru 4- stop letting failed marriages hold me back. I REFUSE to be that wife that texts the other girl to “stop texting my husband”… Because see I wouldn’t text the other girl. Ill Lorena Bobbitt his a$$. Then my life would be ruined because I loved this man so much. I refuse to be a statistic. Even tho everyday we’re categorized, margionalized, generalized this is one stat I dont want to be apart of.
Step 5 – establish myself some more. I firmly believe “you wont find a better woman unless I better myself”
Step 6- solidify us (him and I) this is/was my best friend of 4 years and when we found ourselves in a relationship we agreed that even tho we have this foundation a house with proper support still needs to be built. Our “wow” factor wasnt immediate or else we prob wouldn’t be here today. I believe it was the fact that we watched each others dating evolution and when we were in the same place our subconscience came to the forefront and it just clicked
Step 7 – find the biggest rock and give him time to save up for it
” Ugh he gave me my first happy ending… ”
you ain’t mad are ya?
“Yet here I am. In a relationship… And 7 steps away from marriage. The only thing that set him apart was he actually made me…. Ugh he gave me my first happy ending…”
so, according to you, the guys are the barbershop are actually right, huh?
But, right now I’m more interested in finding out what we can do to get us excited about each other again. Also, is this — the mating malaise — just the way it’s always been, and we’re just the first generation to be unburdened enough with life to actually express it?
hell if i know the answer to this. but i too have found myself mentioning to others that im not really EXCITED about most of the new guys i meet or go out with. its like, yay you have a pulse and an IQ higher than Desean Jackson, but other than that it’s almost as if im having to convince myself that those 2 qualifications are achievements. and that just doesnt seem right.
the LAST time i was really excited about a date and optimistic about a guy who actually made giddy, i was asked via text to “please stop communicating with my fiance”. so…. *shrugs*
and while its very plausible that the higher educated Black folk get, the more entitled we become, but i dont think theres anything wrong with wanting some one to WOW us. a person doesnt have to necessarily be “exceptional” or “above average” in in terms of lifetime credentials, they just need to be INTERESTING and INTRIGUING–to ME. i meet cool ppl all the time and most of the people in my close circle of friends are pretty dazzling. i just dont manage to meet the same type of “i wanna get to know you and spend time with you and make you a regular guest at game night” on a romantic level.
maybe its me. its probably me. im not going to accept the dull, uninteresting game brothas have to offer me when i am upfront with sharing me awesomeness wrapped in sunshine. *shrugs*
Gem… I felt my heart drop a little with the fiance bit.
Its hard not to categorize when most men do the same thing.
Which can lead to not becoming excited about dating… I guess
gemmie…
why you gotta bait out DJ like dat? his nestea plunge gave life!!
bwahahahahahaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa…..
the LAST time i was really excited about a date and optimistic about a guy who actually made giddy, i was asked via text to “please stop communicating with my fiance”. so…. *shrugs*
<<<well damn.
sad part about this? is that she is still referring to dude as fiance.
the text SHOULD have said: if i were you, i’d walk away from the dude that WAS my fiance.
LMBO!
It seems God is not without a sense of humor.
Same reason we aren’t excited by having opportunities our parents could only dream of or living in one of the most opportunity filled eras in the history of human existence. Expectations. Being told that we are all special and it is our birthright to drink only the ballerest of wines, nibble on the finest of cheeses, and only date humble supermodel neurosurgeon chefs that work 40 hour weeks. We all seem to think that whatever we want is guaranteed by the preamble of the constitution.
Expanding on what I said to answer your question:
“is this, this mating malaise, just the way it’s always been, and are we just the first generation to actually express it?”
No, I don’t think the dating malaise has always been there. I think our generation is one of the first to date purely for such purely shallow interests so it’s easy to feel dispassionately about others because our motives are shallow. As great as “love” is, we are the progeny of people that married more out of necessity than anything else.
People married because God (and society) ordained it as the natural setting for a man and woman. Going against that meant being on the wrong side of both God and society. For women marriage was also a source of financial and social security and men didn’t have the option to date into perpetuity.
As wonderful as love for the sake of love is, it doesn’t have the gravity as a religious imperative, or social normative force, sustenance, or nearly exclusive source of sexual interaction. These are older, stronger and more primordial motivations than our modern notions of romantic love. While the motives are just as selfish as romantic love for it’s own sake, they are more shallow when it comes to the the hierarchy of human needs (no Maslow). With such a capricious and amorphous concept as the primary foundation of modern relationships, it’s easy to see why it’s easier to attain a level of disinterest not seen in prior generations, and even why the institution of marriage isn’t as stable or, quite frankly, important. In other words, it just aint that deep anymore.
“As wonderful as love for the sake of love is, it doesn’t have the gravity as a religious imperative, or social normative force, sustenance, or nearly exclusive source of sexual interaction. These are older, stronger and more primordial motivations than our modern notions of romantic love. While the motives are just as selfish as romantic love for it’s own sake, they are more shallow when it comes to the the hierarchy of human needs (no Maslow). With such a capricious and amorphous concept as the primary foundation of modern relationships, it’s easy to see why it’s easier to attain a level of disinterest not seen in prior generations, and even why the institution of marriage isn’t as stable or, quite frankly, important. In other words, it just aint that deep anymore”
damn, lol. it’s comments like these that help us earn the Very Smart Brothas name.
Glad I can be on the side of VSBs and not fcuckery and ignorant ish for once. Although I do reserve the right to engage in fcuckery and ignorant ish outside of this comment thread.
You know why I love you today? Because you know who Maslow is.
“As wonderful as love for the sake of love is, it doesn’t have the gravity as a religious imperative, or social normative force, sustenance, or nearly exclusive source of sexual interaction. These are older, stronger and more primordial motivations than our modern notions of romantic love”
i couldnt tell through your tone (of typing. lol.) but how do you actually feel about that? does that upset you or do you just take it for what it is?
i would have to say i kind of agree and it kind of upsets me. ill kind of explain. =): i think that love is sold to us as an independent force i.e. ‘the power of love’. and i dont think it is. i agree that our society’s older motivations appear to be stronger than what we consider love to be. but i dont think that it actually is i just think we dont know what the end goal of love is (especially since we are assuming there is an end goal at all) so when it doesnt take us to where we thought we ought to go its a mindf*ck.
It was more of dispassionate observation than a condemnation or co-sign.
As for my personal opinion, I don’t feel that romantic love is wrong or a bad thing, just a flawed emotion without something larger than purely self serving interests behind it. Love without some sense of selflessness just isn’t sustainable. If the crux of our relationship is a mutual feeling of euphoria then it only makes sense that the useful life of that relationship is how long it’s beneficial for each party to remain.
And since infatuation inevitably fades, relationships built on fleeting emotion are bound to do so as well. People yearn for something deeper and more meaningful.
I’m not an overly religious person, but I see how the concept of God fulfills the human equation of happiness and purpose in a way that reason doesn’t. We’re flawed entities, so anything produced by us to serve only our ends is bound to be flawed as well.
We need something external of our imperfections to make love truly work, be it a concept, a truth or a deity.
What’s unfortunate is that folks seem to believe that love and substance are mutually exclusive. What I mean is that there are those who believe that love is all we need, and there are others who believe that stability and security are all we need. Unfortunately, those points of view are flawed. The two are totally interdependent. When the heat and the passion of the newness of love starts to die down, there must be some stability and security to sustain the relationship, and conversely, when life starts whoopin your a$$, there has to be some real love to bind you together through those hard times.
^^^ Applaud this man ^^^
Well stated. I concur.
Exactly. Good synopsis my dude.
You could relate this to the decline in religious belief over the past 20 years, emergence of no-fault divorce (early 70′s), etc. to make a correlation between the two as well. It just doesn’t mean much to a generation of folks the way it did then.
Bond.
And that’s not to say that earlier generations didn’t date for the sake of love, but the concept of love is markedly different entity when there are forces larger than the notion of romantic love itself are at play as well. Kind of like how love between two people evolves when kids come into play.
and when we want something, we want it now, and if you ain’t delivering what I want now, then I’m out.
“We all seem to think that whatever we want is guaranteed by the preamble of the constitution.”
I think this is definitely a part of the problem.
and this right hur—>>> “only date humble supermodel neurosurgeon chefs that work 40 hour weeks.” had be dying!!! So true!!! But you gotta add on his best day dude is a 3, lives with his mom and drives a vw van. It’s ok to have some expectations, so you don’t end up settling, but they need to be realistic, simple and a little flexible.
Go Meeeech Go Meeeech. D@mn you went in brotha. I cosign all dat der. It’s def some good food for thought. Arrogance plays a huge part in people’s bad attitudes. Plus, we too d@mn picky.
We are a nation of people with high expectations. Some of the expectations we have for our mates/potential mates are expectations that only God can fulfill. Until we realize that we are simply choosing from mere humans with shortcomings and fallacies like the rest of us, we will continue to be disappointed.
This story sums it up perfectly:
One man asked the other man why it is that he was never married. The other man sighs deeply and confesses deeply that he had looked for years to find the perfect woman. “is it that you have never found her, then?” asks the first man. “Oh no,” the second man replies sadly, :I did find her. it seems, however, that she was looking for the perfect man.”
That story hits the nail on the head
THIS.
*snaps fingers* This is so true!!!!!!
Too often we participate in life with a list of “must haves” that we refuse to compromise on. Physical attitributes all change as we get older. If this was on your list, you’re already doomed before you start. Sure he/she doesn’t make $50,000/year NOW, but he/she is working towards it. Are you that hell bent on finances that you’re willing to let a great person pass you by?
Special thanks to The Champ for posting this. I have inspiration for a new blog post:)
WOW!! I may not even comment today after that!
I wish I could favorite this comment!!!!!!! This story pretty much sums it up
It’s all about the tingle! Both mental and genital tingle. Speaking from a woman’s point of view, early in dating years you only need one of the two tingles. After adolescence and middle twenties, you need both.
When you are 16-18 independently sexy, funny, so ugly your cute or genius will make you tingle.
19 – 25, the aforementioned plus on the way up the ladder, established, and your kinda old I could rock your world gives you the tingle.
At ages 26- 35, men need a whole host of things to get you going. One empty trait leaves every woman wondering if they can do better. A combination of established, so ugly your cute and funny could put you head over heels. However, you rarely meet such men. Instead you meet sexy, on the way up the ladder, and 4 out of wedlock kids. No Tingle and No deal.
*raises hand in the corner*
Question in the back ma’am.
whatchu mean 4 out of wedlock kids?? What kinda people do you talk to? ====> like Katt Williams said,”a lot of women thing ninjas aint sh*t cause they only seem to talk to a lot of aint sh*t ninjas.”
I feel we aren’t all like that or will be like that. Im hopin you’re exaggerating on your situation and im not destined to be a unicorn. But the kid is still fresher than an infant in the game at 19 and still in college so what do i know…
Naw son, not me, happily married …. no kids.
is this tingle you refer to an initial tingle, or a gradual tingle?
Good question. I feel too many people are focused on that initial tingle and feeling that tingle every single time they see/speak to the other person. We see unrealistic romantic relationships on TV and in the movies all the time. Ones where the partners are constantly french kissing, constantly saying little cutesy things, hugs, kisses, extravagant gifts, emotional moments, etc. This is not reality.
Unfortunately,too many of us have minimal exposure to what a real relationship that is healthy is like, so we use these media images as our guides as to how a “good relationship” should be. Of course, that will leave us dissatisfied, b/c it’s not a realistic goal.
I’m an avid dater, who is 100% hetero, and to be honest, maybe only 1 man (maybe 2 max) ever left me with a “tingle” b/c of an awesome date/conversation. While it’s great to feel that tingle, we need to realize that not everyone has this amazing love connection right off the bat and that it’s okay and more realistic than what you see playing on HBO.
The Law of Diminishing Marginal Utility at work? Meaning the more you have of something (dating/sex etc.) the less satisfaction you gain from it (maybe not on the sex part you nasties
)?
Maybe ninjas just needs to take a break for a minute from all the stresses involved with dating or trying to date, ish can be like an extra job sometimes.
That’s pretty darn interesting… that could definitely work. Abreak from it all.
and.
On the flip, I think most folks get excited about someone if they’re an idealized version of themselves (vanity) or if that person is an idealized version of their dream ‘person’. Could be hard for folks to get excited about someone ‘regular’ when they’re busy idealizing and not familiar with their own ‘averageness’
..and while I want a man to wow me, I no longer have childhood fantasies of the perfect love/perfect man ready to wisk me off into the sunset.
how do you define wow?
And where did you develop the childhood fantasy of perflect love/man? My parents were married so I developed an expectation that wasn’t one of romance/perfection, but one of team work.
I have a theory that folks that didn’t have married parents create a fantasy about what marriage is in the absence of it.
True. I’ve seen this time and time again, especially on blogs by people who call themselves bloggers. I’m like, “how the hell you gonna tell someone about a relationship, when you know what a healthy one looks like yourself?!?!” I digress…
At this point, this is why a lot of guys I know only date women from two parent homes. I notice personally, there is a difference in perspective, attitude, etc.
Bond.
Yes. I for the life of me can NEVER figure out the single blogger who shells out relationship advice. Da hell? That makes no sense. If you (not you) haven’t been in a relationship in 10 years, please don’t speak on it. And the people from broken homes or had bad marriages tell others not to get married, etc. That hurts me.
please also tell steve harvey to stop. writing. books. your first 2 wives thought they knew how to keep you after you proposed and married them.
wompity.
AHHHHH!!!
I think he’s looking at marriage as the finish line as opposed to staying married.
Hate. Steve. Harvey. Mean-spirited, unfunny humor. Never struck me as particularly wise either.
I can totally testify that, for me, the fantasy came from having a single mother. Nobody would have ever been good enough for me if I had utilized her criteria. She actually attempted to talk ish about my engagement ring, mind you, my husband was a broke college student when he bought it. She thought I deserved more. I had to help her understand otherwise. My mama can’t tell me ANYTHING about how to be married. She can impart all the wisdom in the world about raising my son, but she knows not to talk to me about my relationship. She has no grounds and no experience. I don’t discuss anything about my marriage with her because, unfortunately she was on the “nuckas ain’t shyt” bus for many years. My husband has helped her to see that there really are good men out there and she loves that man like her own son. But nah, I makes my single mama stay in her lane.
Interestingly enough, my mom is a single woman (never married) and her occupation?…Family and MARRIAGE counseling. I always said their was some serious cognitive dissonance within this situation. But she put it like this, most of the couples who she see’s are not actually married couples, but, rather, two single people who happen to be legally binded. And since she’s single, she can tell them to do the opposite of what they’re doing.
My parents are not married to anyone. I (thankfully) figured out pretty early in the dating game that this worked against me in more ways than one. 1. I don’t know what to expect from a man. 2. I don’t know what a man expects from me (other than that!). 3. Males look at females from single parent homes differently than females from a 2 parent home, IMO.
I had to learn things that my friends from 2 parent homes seem to just know. Even if it was a dysfunctional 2 parent home.
Coming to that realization was a “stay in your lane” moment for me. But it did help me dodge some bullets.
<>
What things did you learn?
I had to learn I can’t just make a decision about something without first consulting my SO. That was a BIG HUGE problem for me. I had to learn to be vulnerable. I am still working on that. I had to learn what it meant to “just be” in a relationship, have a conversation, make plans with and for, be supportive of someone else. And as silly/crazy as it may sound, I had to learn to accept that someone else could (and should!) love me. Just for being me.
I know those things may seem common sense things to some but as they say good sense ain’t always that common.
Love don’t live here no mo’. At least, not in that house.
I don’t know. Someone told me one time that marriage gives you enough time to fall back in love again. That always stuck with me. I don’t think we’re the first generation to feel this way. Probably the first generation to articulate it so loudly though.
Maybe so. But maybe its because our operational definition of love has differed from past generations. For instance my parents seemed to have got it right cause they’re going on 27 years. According to them love should be service instead of this since of entitlement we seem to have. On some JFK ish, like what can i do for my SO to show my love rather than, what can they do for me. If both parties adopt this type of thinking where they put their SO’s spiritual and emotional welfare before their own, affection gets reciprocated and the relationship exists in a perpetual fountain of youth.
tl;dr : if the love is mutual and selfless it never gets old or stale
I like this. I’ll take it so far as to say love can be a choice. If I choose to stay with someone that’s a good person- and choose give them my all while they reciprocate- that has to work doesn’t it?
Does the “wow” have to instant? Can the “wow” grow on you? Are we shutting people down before giving them a chance to “wow” us?
I have a friend who has liked me for years. The guy is handsome, has a good head on his shoulders, loves God, makes me smile, charismatic, other women are throwing themselves at him – But he’s just OK in the “give me butterflies” dept. We’ve had conversations where I would be forcing myself to keep talking because maybe I’m not giving the brotha a chance. Maybe by the 2nd, 5th, 9th convo, his charm and sexy will GROW on me and begin to Wow me.
Then on the other side of that is me projecting the Wow on to people Just because I want them sooooo badly. Color me guilty because I’ve done that at least 3 significant, waste 3.5 years of my life times.
So what does that mean VSBs & VSSs!!?! Must the Wow be instantaneous? If I can make an otherwise wow-less person wow-ful in my eyes, can we make the choice to invite it in our lives!?
Or is that settling?
:-/
You know I was Outsourced the other day and one of themes of the show is arranged marriage. The dude from America didn’t understand how people in Indian culture could be married to someone they hardly knew but the Indian girl explained that they LEARN to love each other.
I think the same rule applies similarly to relationships in that we can’t rely on that sparks flying moment solely to determine if the person is right for us. In fact one of first dating lessons I learned was that often times (not guaranteed) you end up dating your friends. Ex.
My Mom married my Dad and they divorced 5 years later, to this day she tells €me its because they didn’t get to know each other and let the relationship develop over time. Fastfoward to 98 and she’s marry my Step-dad who she has been friends with since I was 2 (I’m 22 now). Bottom-line, let ish grow.
I think our biological clocks are off. I think the “wow” our “love at first sight” feeling is irrational and, not surprisingly strongest when we are at our most irrational, the teenage years. Oddly enough, this is when we are literally designed to start mating. There’s a method to our biological madness (horrible pun, but hey, I can’t sleep).
I think as we get older, we still chase this irrational feeling that is in reality a product of a hormonally different time in our lives. This immature biological anomaly has ironically become the standard for finding a mate in adults who have matured beyond this chemically induced state of irrational euphoria. Still chasing that first high.
“Beyond this chemically induced state of irrational euphoria. Still chasing that first high.”
Are you a neuroscientist? I inserted this idea in my comment but listed the actual chemicals.
Na, my school had one of the best psychology programs in the nation though.
“Still chasing that first high.”
That’s what the herion addicts on “Intervention” say all the time! That’s a great way to put it.
It didn’t happen for me as a teen, that happened for me @ 26, @ a time when I had wrote that feeling off.
The reality is alot of folk will never come across that..it’s not irrational it’s just a rare rare rare thing.
Almost 11 years later and I still very much love him, probably always will, but we cannot be together.
Sometimes I think it would have been easier to never have known him, or experienced that cause where do you go from there? Moving forward you know the chances of lightening in a bottle twice are slim to none..hence my malaise. I think if I could just come across something that fits comfortably, something I can have and hold, that’s like an easy conversation, that’d be a nice place to stay.
“Almost 11 years later and I still very much love him, probably always will, but we cannot be together.”
what happened, if you don’t mind me asking?
Our lifestyles disagreed in some fundamental ways to put it simply.
Co-sign.
Truth is, most people haven’t experienced real and true love. I wrote a blog post about how I could ‘sense’ my ex. Once you have experienced something like that, where do you go?
I still meet amazing women and with the last 2, I have had similar connections. In the end, love becomes what you make it. If you find that person who you connect with like that, and they are giving 100% and you are giving the same, I think that feeling will return. For me, it has a few times….No Retreat, No Surrender. Van Damme.
Bond.
@ Blk Bond, Every love is different tho, every single one is as different as the person as the connection, and maybe, hopefully there will be that one for me, “The one who will walk down the middle of the highway with you”, like my Granma used to say (RIP)
. I wrote a blog post about how I could ‘sense’ my ex. Once you have experienced something like that, where do you go?
I so know what you are talking about… I am part of the lucky ones who were able to get back with said “amazing love”…. But I would have been happy nonetheless. There is quote from Richard of Texas in Eat.Pray.Love that stayed with me (when he and I were apart due to numerous reasons…
). It goes something like this:
[b]…A true soul mate is a mirror, the person who shows you
everything that’s holding you back, the person who brings you to your own attention so you can change your life. A true soul mate is probably the most important person you’ll ever meet, because they tear down your walls and
smack you awake. But to live with a soul mate forever. Nah. Too painful. Soul mates, they come into your life just to reveal another layer of yourself to you, and then they leave. And thank God for it.[/b]
And I can testify that it is WAY easier to live with a non soul mate than it is to live with one… Now you will be happier with the soul mate but it’s definitely not easy.
I completely agree and have experienced having been both loved and in love like you’ve described. I could sense him. Thats real talk.
Yeah, i wasn’t saying that it isn’t possible to have it later, just more likely to happen during those years. You experiencing that during your adult life is probably worse than having it happen as a teenager in terms of getting over it.
Not being able to get over that one guy is pretty typical of girls that haven’t met me yet. For that I apologize.
LLS!!! I find that some things in life you just get past, IDK if you ever really get over them, but you can definitely get past them, by and by.
“Does the “wow” have to instant? Can the “wow” grow on you? Are we shutting people down before giving them a chance to “wow” us?”
For me it wasn’t a “wow” as much as it was the ease with which we spent our time.
There were wow moments, relationship milestones like first date, first kiss, etc…
But it the first time we went grocery shopping together… the first time that we did laundry… that let me know he was the one
The guy who can make the pedestrian every day stuff easier… that is what I want for the long haul ~JS
“The guy who can make the pedestrian every day stuff easier… that is what I want for the long haul ”
Cuz there will be a lot more of that than anything else.
@ Jhane: I’m still still scrolling thru all of the comments and this is the second time youve hit it on the head. I’ve grown into “being Wowed” by someone I considered a friend.
Just thinking about him makes my glasses fog up…or maybe theyre fogged up cuz its BRICK COLD IN BK and my apt is BORICUA PROJECT HOT!
The tingle will come. Like if you feed a rat cheese and do nada but feed him apples and shock him everytime,he will learn to leave the apples the hell alone. conditioning. A man who is acceptable but not exciting, sleep with him and let loose,get some thrills. Over time, you will associate him with that WOW and find yourself getting excited at the thought of him and anticipating seeing him.
what is the wow we’re looking for?
Because some people are looking for ppl to fulfill them and make them happy and complete them etc. <——– some really intense expectations.
How about trying to fulfill yourself and being happy while your single? Yea, it' good to want someone to ADD to your life, but if you are looking for a person in order to start living, someone to MAKE your life then you need to do some self-reflecting, because those kind of expectations are unfair.
…..and what happens when the wow factor wears off? When love becomes a choice instead of butterfly feelings? Realistically there are gonna be days when the low is hitting a low, what do you do then?
“Realistically there are gonna be days when the low is hitting a low, what do you do then?”
if you’re a man, watch p*rn (or the progressive commercial). If you’re a woman, watch “Luther” on BBC
Right! the last question is what I want to be answered. I hear from women all the time say things like, “I want to be entertained”, “I want to be fascinated”, “I want to be wowed”, and guys are like, “you need to watch a Spielberg movie!”
You need to be whole yourself before you even entertain pairing with anyone else. That’s too much to bare for someone who just met you. My thought is that you have all of this unfulfilled need, you need to find it by yourself.
People are searching for their mate to fulfill them with the things they lack (confidence, wit, humor, etc.). As soon as this “I need..” list comes out someone’s mouth, I’m thinking, “damn, you’re boring”, lol. Because if you had those things already, you wouldn’t be so hellbent on needing them from someone else.
Bond. BlkBond.
I don’t claim to know the answer. I don’t think we can even compare these issues to the ones that our grandparents had. Not saying things were all gravy back then, but hell by my age (32) one of my Grandma’s had been married 12 years w/ 4 kids, and the other was a widow w/ 4 children. I think the circumstances are different for different generations. I think the reason so many of us arent “wowed” by anyone new is because we’ve been dating so long, and been through the motions with so many potentials, that it gets harder and harder each time to get all super excited about meeting someone new. It’s like you are waiting for the shoe to drop, because chances are it’s about to be something. Don’t mind me and my pessimism, this is stemming from the last 2 new folks I’ve met, and been excited about, and then finding out both of whom are not even single. :/
we just have to remain hopeful
Always Orange Star, always!
I think the reason so many of us arent “wowed” by anyone new is because we’ve been dating so long, and been through the motions with so many potentials, that it gets harder and harder each time to get all super excited about meeting someone new.
I think that’s key…. Any activity that’s done over a long period of time with a relatively small success rate is bound to become tedious… It’s already trying to do the same things over and over…. doing them with the added pressure of expectations makes it even harder.
Indeed girlfriend.
This! At 24 years old I have so many friends who are just plain exhausted and jaded from dating. Most of these chicks started at about 13 so after 10 years of bs they are just completely over it. Its heartbreaking because they probably still have another 10 years of dating (and bs) to go through before they find their life partner/husband. This may be the first and only time I’ll say that I am proud to have been a late bloomer…dating still feels new and exciting to me!
It’s simple ennui. We are in a new world of limitless options – and nowhere is this more apparent than in the dating world. Hundreds of years ago, someone may have three or four people they could reasonably choose to attach to and mate with. Today, we could actually date hundreds of people. As we expose ourselves to more members of the opposite sex, we become used to all the tricks they have up their sleeve. As we date more, we compare each person to our new “ideal” – some nonexistent person who is an amalgamation of the best traits present in each of our exes. She needs to have Karen’s intellectualism, Allison’s kindness, Becky’s body, and Katie’s sex drive. Not only do we have our actual exes to compare to – we also have television ramming ideals down our throats. As we date more, the next person is progressively less likely to approach this ideal. We ascribe our boredom and dissatisfaction to some perceived flaw in our dates (“He’s too boring” “She’s not smart enough” “I just don’t feel a spark with him”), not to our own habituation to the dating pool that’s out there.
Cosign completely. ‘Tis all.
cosigns with permanent marker. on a football glove.
All this.
good comment and sh*t. you basically described “deal or no deal” dating
^^^^STROBELIGHTS ON THIS POST^^^^
Thanks Awesomeness!
let’s see if i can make this make sense. i think that we experience the WOW factor less now because we look to meet/date people who put on that they able to WOW us. so many times have i been enamored by a tall glass of water looking man only to be disappointed…and not by his inability to hold a conversation…but the direction he kept steering the conversation. we are drawn to ppl to wow us aesthetically or with their “swagger”(this word means nothing to me anymore), but once engaged with said person, we lose the excitement. so it isn’t that we(i) am no longer excited about dating.
i realized this when i had like a 3 hour conversation with a guy that i would have never imagined to have this WOW factor and i was fvcking smitten..smitten i tell you!
i hope this makes sense or pertains to the post cuz i’s tired
This happened to me as well. I gave a guy a chance that I was ready to dismiss and he ended up being fabulous. Sometimes we just need to get over ourselves. We have so much on paper, but how much of it really matters- not much. Poor folks in rural countries get married all the time, share their little beans and rice, build their house and farm their plot of land, have kids and lives happy lives.
“Poor folks in rural countries get married all the time, share their little beans and rice, build their house and farm their plot of land, have kids and lives happy lives.”
This used to be us, (blacks in America)
We expect soulmates,they expected partners. Big difference.
“We expect soulmates,they expected partners. Big difference.”
I think it’s part media, part perceived entitlement, and part arrogance. As Chris Rock says, life is LONG. We have to time to become soulmates. We just need to be commit to being partners for a minute.
“Poor folks in rural countries get married all the time, share their little beans and rice, build their house and farm their plot of land, have kids and lives happy lives.”
i agree with this sentiment, but you have to admit that “happiness” is relative
you have to admit that “happiness” is relative
But that would be the case no matter where/what…
Sometimes, I think it’s all bollocks. I was raised by my grandmother. I’m sure she spent many a night in her twenties up wondering whether all the men would be lost in WWII leaving her a lonely old spinster. She just didn’t have an internet full of blogs, or a bunch of magazines or a 24/7 news cycle to remind her of her singleness, and how that was a bad thing. So, instead, she focused on building herself into the best person she could possibly be. Eventually love came along and that’s how I’m here.
I read all the statistics. I saw the NYT article about black women being way less likely to marry outside of their race than black men, and the Post article about black women being most likely to end up single; and maybe they’re all true. But maybe, just maybe in 20 or 30 years we’ll find that what’s shifting is not the percentage of people getting married, maybe it’s the age at which the average person marries. Maybe most of the women and men who aren’t often ‘wowed’ will be ‘wowed’ one more time in their lives, and that’s who they’ll marry. Maybe, when we’re all 70 and married with grand kids we’ll look back at this and laugh. In the meantime – complaining to each other does nothing. Good post homey… took me a while to formulate a thought on it.
But maybe, just maybe in 20 or 30 years we’ll find that what’s shifting is not the percentage of people getting married, maybe it’s the age at which the average person marries. Maybe most of the women and men who aren’t often ‘wowed’ will be ‘wowed’ one more time in their lives, and that’s who they’ll marry. Maybe, when we’re all 70 and married with grand kids we’ll look back at this and laugh. In the meantime – complaining to each other does nothing. Good post homey… took me a while to formulate a thought on
this is a good point. we’re evolving and living longer, so it stands to reason that the “typical age of wowing” would be pushed back too. the only problem with this, though, is that women’s biological clocks aren’t moving at the same speed. so, while we might not be completely ready to be in relationships until we’re 40, women who want a family do have to start this process a bit earlier.
“But, right now I’m more interested in finding out what we can do to get us excited about each other again”
The short answer: I have no f*cking idea. Seriously.
The long answer:
1) Work on yourself – As you complain about the opposite sex, there’s someone of the opposite sex complaining as well. Make sure that it isn’t you (or people like you) that they’re complaining about. This allows everyone to worry about the ONE person that they can control. If people are happy and content with themselves, they naturally become exciting and interesting to others.
2) “The future’s not set. There’s no fate but what we make for ourselves.” – You’ve had plenty of bad dates and been around some uninteresting people, but so what? Recheck yourself with #1 and then get back on the horse. Or don’t. It’s your choice. The point is, your experiences teach you for the future, but they don’t define it.
I agree with #1, but sometimes when I hear this I think “when did perfection become a requirement to experience love?”
Perfection isn’t a requirement. I apologize if that’s how it came out in my comment.
Working on yourself isn’t to reach perfection, but to continually experience progression and be the best you can be. There’s only one person you can control.
How this helps you get excited about the opposite sex? I think it just leads to patience and an understanding that if I’m still working on me, then they (probably) are to. Relax a little more. Live a little more. And experience the ride.
I wasn’t really saying “you” meant this, but it seems to be inferred in our culture esp. when it comes to women with all these books telling women they have to be 1001 things in order to attract and/or keep a man. Now I am all for working on yourself, but having known people in love, having been in love and having someone love me, I know that perfection is far from being a requirement. Yes there are ppl with issues so deep that they have no business being in relationships until they deal with these issues, but too many ppl think they need years to “work on themselves”,to essentially achieve perfection before someone can love them. Some of us can learn a lot about “just being.” Just be you, like seriously. I am far from perfect, I am not the best me I can be everyday, I am a good person but some days I can be mean. I have had a man love me “flaws and all,” realizing I am human.
As my pastor said on Sunday, in love there must be room for growth and grace. As long as both parties are willing to grow w/in a relationship to become better partners, and as long as both parties exercise some grace in forgiving inevitable shortcomings, ppl would have better relationships imo.
In the dating game, ppl are walking around with long lists, longing for Mr./Ms. Perfect, but they don’t exist.
“As long as both parties are willing to grow w/in a relationship to become better partners, and as long as both parties exercise some grace in forgiving inevitable shortcomings, ppl would have better relationships imo.”
Agreed. Having everything together isn’t a prerequisite to finding love and working on yourself isn’t mutually exclusive from being yourself. But the hope is that recognizing you have things to work on and the pursuit of that growth should enable you to be more accepting and understanding of others’ shortcomings as they work on them.
Seems like perfection is a requirement.
Not saying that having X,Y, and Z qualities means a person is automatically dateable or whatever….but when someone has at the minimum, what the opposite sex says they’re looking for and still nothing’s going…..? What does it take?
I like your point about the future not being set. Fate is up to us. If we fall off the horse, we should get back up. Bad experiences should not define us at all.
great post! In my opinion I think a lot of times people are not happy with themselves and are looking to others to make them happy. people are so unhappy they meet someone and expect them to sweep them off their feet and into extreme bliss/happiness. sometimes that happens but it doesn’t last forever then you’re back to where you started: unhappy and have unresolved issues. it just becomes a repetitive cycle until you find yourself unmotivated and “tired of meeting new people/dating”
I think people need to be honest with themselves and stop holding up the facade they have of themselves: “i’m — years old, no kids, masters degree, well travelled, etc etc…and I have it going on, i’m the perfect catch what man/woman would want me.” sometimes life requires time alone and being brutally honest with yourself to figure out/resolve issues.
So I think people should start with themselves rather than figuring out what it is others should/could do to make them happy/excited. if you can’t get happy excited with yourself, how can you expect someone else to do it
“if you can’t get happy excited with yourself, how can you expect someone else to do it”
good comment. this, btw, is exactly how i feel about women and masturbation
i think pop culture/movies/ the media has really changed peoples expectations and written new shorthand for relationships… or scripts… only we arent on a set. were just people.
then again im looking in and making judgements from the outside… im not american or in america but i was fascinated at how the conversations online about black on black love or lack of it dominated certain discussion boards… man shortgae etc… eye opener for me
“i think pop culture/movies/ the media has really changed peoples expectations and written new shorthand for relationships… or scripts… only we arent on a set. were just people.”
fyi, this phenomenon is actually covered in chapter four of the Very Smart Brothas upcoming book “Your Degrees Won’t Keep You Warm at Night: The Very Smart Brothas Guide To Mating, Dating, and Fighting Crime”
I’m gonna go out on a dark limb here and say that many of us (and by us I mean African-Americans within this particularly peculiar generation) are a lot more broken (I mean how can you not be with 400 years of intentionally damaged family and gender role structures weighed against today’s current quasi-denial of it versus the reality of its effects?) than we care to admit, talk about, or deal with and rather than searching internally for the answers we (and by we I definitely include myself) project these issues onto unfair, unrealistic, and often ridiculous expectations for partners and mates…expectations that may not even be based so much in what would actually contribute to functional long-term relationships, but more so an impressive notch on the dating resume.
Not so long ago, I was in this endless rut of just being bored and disgusted by the dudes who approached me. I just felt like they needed to be this or that or etc…and then a good friend astutely observed that, for one gentleman, the reason I mentioned for dismissing him was in exact opposition to a reason I had given for ignoring some other dude the week before. I then came face to face with my own self-sabotage. Yes, some of these guys were bonafide jerks (I mean, it is Atlanta). But many of these so-called “boring” dudes were probably just responding/bouncing off the ennui of my limp, aloof demeanor. I mean who’s gonna show you their best self when all you’re giving them is…well, nothing really?
So I looked into some of these flash judgments I was making, finally admitted to myself why I was doing it, where it was coming from, and dealt with it. And while I am still very much in toxic bachelorette territory, I am now surrounded by a plethora of beautiful, wildly talented and brilliant, free-thinking Black men who make better friends than some of my girlfriends and definitely give me something to be excited about.
But yeah, it takes self-analysis…and not the self-absorbed, indulgent stuff of bad coffeehouse poetry and reality television rehab…but the stuff that really hurts: honesty and hard questions about the course of one’s life in its current state. Unfortunately for us, it’s much easier to blame the other side. But this is the script that we’ve been given…we just choose not to revise it, over and over again. In that, we’re no different from our parents and theirs.
@bronxivyx
Good honest self reflective post….that’s what’s up.
i agree and sh*t
I agree etm…
and when i was still on myspace i joined a group “black women with issues” … voyuer. i was so confused but at least i could ask questions about what i felt was a constant war of words bw black women and men (mostly women) who should have been hooking up. my fave thing about that group was the lull before mayhem erupting when some mischeivious black man would reveal his girl friend was white.
i miss that group:)
lol, i think many of the people from that site comment at clutch now. i think the site and the articles there are quality, but some of the commentators seem to be so angry that i can’t even imagine how they open their mouths wide enough to brush their teeth
“Sh*t, maybe our grandparents felt the exact same way we all seem to, but were they just too busy churning butter and fighting off plagues of locusts to actually say anything?”
This wouldn’t surprise me. I don’t think mating malaise in new. And I know the “eh” feeling well, but it doesn’t necessarily bother me, because the people I know in the types of relationships that I’d be interested in had “eh” meetings and wound up with something great.
My parents are the first that come to mind. My mom actually saw my uncle first and thought “Oooh, he’s cute.” But he was married. Her friend wound up introducing to her to Daddy (who’s shorter and thinner than my uncle) and Ma was like, “Whatever, I guess a date with him won’t hurt.” They’ve known each other for 30 years now, married for 28.
My last roommate met her current fiance on Match.com after meeting 5 or 6 duds/creeps and didn’t really want to meet up with him, but they both wanted to go to some random festival, went together, dated for two years and are getting married in April.
I can think of four or five more examples like that. People going on dates just because or not expecting much out of it and winding up with someone who was great for them. Two of my friend’s parents, a co-worker, a couple buddies. Matter of fact the people I know who had “WOW!” meetings in most cases wound up dating the person for less than a year, the relationship was hot and heavy early and then ended in bad, hurtful, sad break-ups. (And I’m included in that.)
I honestly think the WOW! meeting is overrated and over-perpetuated. I hate to blame movies and books, but really where else besides movies and books do those types of meetings happen consistently? And someone please tell me if this post sounds bitter or disillusioned, because that’s not my intent at all. I really just don’t know many people (in real life) who’ve had some WOW! meeting, been swept off their feet and lived happily ever after.
“I honestly think the WOW! meeting is overrated and over-perpetuated. I hate to blame movies and books, but really where else besides movies and books do those types of meetings happen consistently?”
i think a lot of it also goes back to the idea that many single people assume that people in relationships have/had it easy, and were able to get exactly what and who they wanted.
“i think a lot of it also goes back to the idea that many single people assume that people in relationships have/had it easy, and were able to get exactly what and who they wanted.”
I couldn’t have said it better myself. My single friends often act as though me and my wife have always been together we both experienced pain, rejection and heartache before we met each other. IMO everything I went through b/4 I met my wife gave me a deeper appreciation for our relationship. By means do I think our relationship is perfect but, the longer we are together our appreciation for each other grows stronger. Our love is like a fine wine it gets better with age. I’m happy and blessed to have found someone to not only spend my life with but share my life with.
I was having this discussion with my bf the other day. When you are an adult, you will rarely get as giddy about anyone as you did when you were young. There is too much executive functions and filtering going on. It is like the older we get, the harder we are to excite. The excitation threshold is higher. Blame dopamine, serotonin or a fully developed cortex.
Also I think people tend not to give others a chance to excite them. Everyone tries to put their best food forward and show how “interesting” and complex they are but without knowing what the other person deems interesting. I am still finding interesting things about my bf. I doubt I could see all if any of his interesting qualities when we first met given all my unnecessary preconceptions and hang-ups. I say all this to say interesting sometimes takes time. We aren’t made like we were as teenagers. Some folks just need to learn what they really find interesting or be willing to expand.
Forgive the grammar errors, typed on phone.
“There is too much executive functions and filtering going on. It is like the older we get, the harder we are to excite. The excitation threshold is higher. Blame dopamine, serotonin or a fully developed cortex.”
science talk is sexy and sh*t
Everyone tries to put their best food forward and show how “interesting” and complex they are but without knowing what the other person deems interesting.
Like they say for interviews, try to figure out what the hiring manager is looking for before talking about your ability to multitask… what if he needs someone to stay focused? You just shoot yourself in the foot.
I realize I’m in and I’m out…Eddie Long.
But I’m still reading everyday, and I’m not sure if it’s been mentioned but our country has a penchant for rewarding “honorable mentions”.
First place gets diminished every time some guy gets “a pass” because he opened your door…or some girl gets “a pass” because she didn’t financially abuse your wallet. The dating world becomes extraordinarily “blah” when none of the above is happening.
“First place gets diminished every time some guy gets “a pass” because he opened your door…or some girl gets “a pass” because she didn’t financially abuse your wallet. The dating world becomes extraordinarily “blah” when none of the above is happening.”
please expound and sh*t
you mean by constantly rewarding the bare minimums there is no incentive to actually go for the gold? why try to win when you get free hand job just for being in the race?
is that what you mean? if you do then i agree.
I’ve been bored with dating. But maybe because I’m not seeing anything different that I usually do. Nobody is standing out to be more spectacular than the rest, simply because the Midwest is just that mundane.
Or maybe I’m too busy focusing on other things to notice those who could actually peak my interest, so that the only time I get excited is when someone who’s obviously sexy (and often dumb as a doorknob) smiles bluntly in my face, I end up vexed at his presence.
The point is, you won’t find what you’re looking for, if you keep looking for it in the wrong places. If you have a man (or woman) in front of you that you see weekly, and you leave the date, not being able to recite one thing interesting about the person, maybe you’re not listening enough. I mean yea, there are some boring people out there. But if you aren’t trying to get to know someone, of course you’re not going to find them interesting.
Just saying…
“The point is, you won’t find what you’re looking for, if you keep looking for it in the wrong places. If you have a man (or woman) in front of you that you see weekly, and you leave the date, not being able to recite one thing interesting about the person, maybe you’re not listening enough. I mean yea, there are some boring people out there. But if you aren’t trying to get to know someone, of course you’re not going to find them interesting.”
This is on point. People can go into the date with the wrong attitude so of course it may not work out. Plus people could go outside of their circles and new places to meet new people. Good thoughts.
I don’t want to plug Marx, but feeling alienated from each other and ourselves is pretty much what he talked about in most of his books critiquing capitalism. I know it seems off topic, buts its not. How we get our value for ourselves is also how we value others, so since we gain value from consumption. We view others consumption as their worth as well.This becomes kind of boring and is devoid of meaning, (this is an oversimplification, but I don’t want to bore you guys).
In the end of the day, the system we live in creates a society of detached people. It sucks and I’m sad…I think about it often. I just wish we could all take a little time and strip ourselves of the ideologies that have plagued us for centuries. Our minds are beautiful and we can accomplish a lot. Humans created war, we can create peace. Everything is connected and this was really the point of this comment.
^ I hope I made some sense.
I just want to say that I completely agree with your assessment and this makes complete sense (to me at least). Feel free to expound on this…
I feel like people often times look at the small issues we are having in society and never look at the big picture. For us to get value from consumption, our own production is devalued. This is what he meant by us being alienated from ourselves and other people. It becomes sad because everything is going down hill, but people swear we are being progressive.
The problem is that the enlightenment ideas that were progressive, were hogged by the people in power and then used to subjugate the masses.
add the above to the the over inflated sense of entitlement with the complete inability to delay gratification and we have the perfect recipe for people who are incapable of relating to each other in a realistic way. i think i’m even seeing this with friendships, in the past few years i’ve come across so many people that don’t have “life long” friends anymore. every friendship is 5 years or less. are we being jaded by the work needed to maintain/sustain those as well?
Exactly. We all want the “now, now, now” moment and we don’t realize that great anything…love, careers, families, etc, aren’t built in days, but that it takes time.
We all want the fairytale ending, but don’t want to go through the crap it takes to get to it. In EVERY fairy tale there was struggle, undesired situations, and heartache, but we all focus on the “happily ever after.” Which is the problem and pervasive notion of our culture.
“We all want the fairytale ending, but don’t want to go through the crap it takes to get to it.”
YEEEEESSSSSS! Sniper shot, dead on! The story is ironically bland and boring in the absence of struggle, trial and error, pain, and conflict. Variety and versatility. Adaptability. Change. These ingredients produce interesting lifestyles and great people (leaders and followers). Life is a process….and the result always appears more glorious than the process itself, not realizing that in the absence of the process…there is no result. Solving an equation is a process. Giving birth is a process. Surviving is a process. Dying/tranforming is a process. Going to work is a process. Acheiving an orgasm is a process. This discussion is a process! And if you are one with a process (without complaint) it becomes meditative. Impatience is indeed a mofo.
It’s a lot like how I cannot get into movies anymore and I always walk out feeling like I’d just wasted 2 hours of my life that I would never be getting back. I know all of the film-maker’s devices: all the plot twists, seen all the cast members’ butt or boobs before, every car-chase imaginable, explosion, gruesome death, whatever. Seen it!
Dating is a lot like that if you do it enough. Time to retire from that scene, settle down – yes, I said it: SETTLE – and stop treating every potential mate as if he/she is a line to add to your CV to impress everyone. Honestly, would you care so much if you didn’t have to go back to your friends and family and report about how incredibly succesfull, aesthetically pleasing, chemistry set-igniting and generally worthy this suitor is of being associated with your picky social circle or good family name? There is a lot of pressure there and you need to outsource that to an executive search firm because nobody can come up with that on their own.
I don’t know about anybody else but I have NEVER found any dude that one of my friends has decided to marry to be WORTHY of our social group. I was more worried about how my friends’ choices would affect me and how others would view me – sitting at the table with the aesthetically and economically unworthy dude – than I was about my friends’ individual happiness. I hate to admit it but I’ve probably discouraged more than a few of these pairings as well. That’s me being stupid and meddling. But I doubt that it’s just me so that’s why I’m confessing this here.
Have a basic list of what you’d like in a potential mate: teeth, 2 eyes, ability to walk, college-educated, fit enough to make it past 45, and a driver’s license. A job would be nice too… or in these tough times, a keen interest in getting a job might have to suffice. That should be enough information to go back and tell your friends and family that you’ve met somebody and to please stay the flip out of your business.
Oooh, I can’t tell you how many times I’ve worried about what my family and friends would think about a guy because of what job he had or his height or other stupid sh*t. But what I’ve realized is that 1) My family wants me to be happy and 2) They gonna talk sh*t about anybody because that’s just what we do. I need to look for somebody that’s willing to stick it out with me and knows how to love.
Yeah, but what man is going to sit around and let his woman’s family just take shots at him from 1st Street? Especially given that your family is often an extension of you….it’s likely going to cross his mind that you feel the same way about him as the family does. At least that’s what I’d be thinking.
Well I didn’t mean straight clowning him in his face (not at first) but what they would say behind our (not just his) backs. In my family they just gossip about folks, I don’t think it’s really anything unique though.
Even behind his back….Does that make it better?
She’s stating what her family does. Doesn’t mean she likes it, joins in or would stand for it. Just means she recognizes what they do and she doesn’t care. Which is a good thing, I’d think.
“It’s a lot like how I cannot get into movies anymore and I always walk out feeling like I’d just wasted 2 hours of my life that I would never be getting back. I know all of the film-maker’s devices: all the plot twists, seen all the cast members’ butt or boobs before, every car-chase imaginable, explosion, gruesome death, whatever. Seen it!”
great analogy!
“What can we do to get us excited about each other again?”
Look for the good in each other again. Talk about the good things you like about the opposite s*x instead of focusing on the shortcomings.
I like the fact that many brothas are strong on the outside and very vulnerable, sentimental and sensitive but they don’t want to show it. Now I don’t mind crying, but I do have a problem with… I digress. We have to practice, practice, practice at staying focused on the positive attributes that males and females have.
We can learn to erase the blackboard and stop keeping score. We can also work harder at treating people the way that we want to be treated, on paper that’s a good theory.
I must say tho that there is a big elephant lurking in my mind that wants to go in a different direction ‘cause my name aint Pollyanna.
Well, at least I guess I can say I tried to help stamp out “mating malaise”.
Now where’s my d@mn sticker?
“I must say tho that there is a big elephant lurking in my mind that wants to go in a different direction ‘cause my name aint Pollyanna.”
please, let the elephant breathe.
stick deez, btw
I’ve kind of rendered myself “undateable” @ the moment, so I have nothing concrete to add except “BLAH”… thank you, that is all…
you’re very welcome and sh*t
I feel you on that. But I think that could be a good thing, given all the talk about taking a break from dating anyway. At least that’s how I feel so I got out of the game for a minute. Time out anyone?
too many distractions! we are dieting, paying back school loans, still in school, working too hard or not hard enough, taking care of kids or other family members, trying to be politically correct, using artistic license, being business savvy, stuck in traffic, cooking, watching the game, catching up on sleep, doin’ me, protecting the past and planning the future, tracking too much data, processing too much information, answering to too many people, taking on too many tasks…
“there is nothing new under the sun”
the grandparentals needed each other. for all types of support. it almost seems as if marriage was the next logical step. now we have options. what is acceptable has changed. its “okay” to be single, independent, perpetually dating…
i think if we figure out how to pay attention, we’ll see there are many people worth getting excited for
“what is acceptable has changed. its “okay” to be single, independent, perpetually dating…”-
Not too many years ago people would have been sympathetic if you were 25-30 and still single.
“there is nothing new under the sun”
the grandparentals needed each other. for all types of support. it almost seems as if marriage was the next logical step. now we have options. what is acceptable has changed. its “okay” to be single, independent, perpetually dating…
i approve this message.
i think if we figure out how to pay attention, we’ll see there are many people worth getting excited for
THIS.
All men can be more like Cary Grant in the movies (not Cary Great in his real life)
Then all will be well
That’s Cary Grant….
this comment just made my nose bleed
“what can we do to get excited about each other again”?
i honestly don’t know. they say absence makes the heart grow fonder…so maybe black men and black women, that are single…and not ready for marriage…should stop even being in relationships (or seeking relationships)? oh, and this goes without saying, if you’re not looking for a relationship, find someone of the opposite gender who isn’t as well. i mean, i don’t know everything, i just keep my ear to the internet streets..but it seems like men seek/expect a woman that looks like (insert model type) that does XYZ, can make her own money, yet doesn’t throw it in his face, etc, etc. Women seek/expect some sort of black adonis who will pretty much let them do what they want, but have some sort of aura that says “Don’t piss me off”..
oh, and he can’t be ‘boring’. Must be ‘exciting’.
When in reality, the overwhelming majority of us could stand to lose a few pounds, could stand to eat/drink a little more healthy (don’t have to be a vegan, moderation is key imo), the overwhelming majority of us don’t travel ( according to state data, 28% of Americans have passports (http://www.gao.gov/new.items/d08891.pdf ) and i’m not going to presume all those passports are being snatched up by the HBCUs and Black Ivys…
maybe this “blah” we feel with each other…maybe it’s telling us that it’s the same “blah”…people feel about you. maybe, as entitled as the past few generations (Gen. X, Y, Millenials)..we really aren’t that special to begin with? Yes, you (in general) have a special talent…just like everyone else?
“maybe this “blah” we feel with each other…maybe it’s telling us that it’s the same “blah”…people feel about you.”
you know, you might have a point there. it seems like people (men and women) who tend to be blah about the opposite sex also seem to be more likely to have the opposite sex blah about them
**regretting my “BLAH” comment** LOL
i think our grandparents, and those before them, probably dealt with the “lack of ‘wow’” that we deal with…but they probably had more pressing concerns, and they probably could see that regardless of the lack of ‘wow’, that the person that stood next to them, was a (reasonably) good man/woman, and they grew with each other, and worked it out…something it seems like to me, modern day folks are NOT interested in doing.
i mean, is this ‘wow’ factor, this ‘tingly’ feeling…something you’re going to have every day of the rest of your life? when you’re 73 and it takes you a little while longer to walk around the mall with your spouse, are you going to want that ‘wow’/'tingly’ feeling when you look at him/her? If so, then i guess that is something that should be part of your list of requirements.
Maybe we have to be honest with ourselves, and honest with each other in terms of what we want, what we desire, and what we’re willing to work with (without calling it settling). and also, maybe we need to respect each other and support each other, if they aren’t the one. otherwise, i feel it will be nothing but the cold war between the sexes, full of indifferent stances and blustery diatribes upon the opposite sex disguised as ‘advice’.
I think you’re right. “Wow” wasn’t the goal or the priority. A good person that could support a family or run a household, had acceptable values, and, of course, was somewhat attractive (to whomever was doing the looking at that time). I think that if we as young adults change our priority from “wow” (which is the mainstream idea, not just black folks) to actually *choosing* a good mate, the black family situation can be turned around. Black people must make a conscious effort because we are being hit the hardest.
I think the problem we have is the illusion of choice. Back in the day you married someone within your close social circle, who you probably knew growing up. These days, with online dating and increased mobility, we think we have such an endless pool of potential mates to pick from. When we meet someone nice that meets some of our desired qualities, we drop them because they have one shortcoming or the other. Always with an eye out for that magical person that will meet all of our criteria, because ‘we deserve better’.
Once we let go of unrealistic expectations, and take stock of what is really important in a relationship, this dating malaise should be easily fixed. The fact of the matter is that many men and women expect perfection in a potential mate when they themselves are imperfect. It’s a messed up equation. Perfection is not a necessity to love, but can be born from love.
The quality of men and women has not changed (IMHO), but people need to check their wandering eyes and hearts. Of course, this doesn’t apply to everyone, but I see many of my friends in the same situation, and these are the thoughts I developed after hearing the same things for a long time.
Cosign all this.
*nodding head
“Dating” has changed. Older generations dated with more intention to marry. From what I’ve heard them talk about, they didn’t try to find the perfect person. They picked somebody and stuck with it. They believed that marriage was something important.
Now we date just to date. I don’t think it’s just black people and I think it’s just a change in beliefs that has occurred over time. We’ve become so interested in finding this myth of “the one” and picking each other apart, when really if we made the decision to stick with someone we probably could make things work and be happy.
My personal observation- The guys that have the basics (homestead, car, job, sense) are wh0res sticking every pretty woman they see. There are too many guys that don’t even have the basics. (Even though they may be good guys.) This creates the frustration that I see from women.
I’m not sure what the men have to complain about. Apparently there are so many good black women available that our stock has gone down because the market is flooded.
“I’m not sure what the men have to complain about. Apparently there are so many good black women available that our stock has gone down because the market is flooded.”
Uh….negatory. When I was 21, the first things I needed to know when meeting a woman was if she was over 18 and what she did for a living. At 26, the first things I now need to know is if she likes men and how many kids she has. (No disrespect to women with kids or women that don’t like men….those are just two things I cannot compromise on with a prospective woman.)
Answer: There is nothing to look forward to anymore. If you understand the fact that 13 yr old are have active sexual experiences with the emotional substance to it. What do you think will happen when they are 30? Relationships today are all about the benefits and none of the responsibilities. How long can one play the take, take game without it taking a toll on your emotions and ethics (provided you ever learned any in the first place). Look at the number of people who want a person to maintain the lifestyle they had while living at home with parents in addition to providing sex. Until you can get a shift in the mindset, you will never get rid of the childishness to have an adult relationship.
“Answer: There is nothing to look forward to anymore. If you understand the fact that 13 yr old are have active sexual experiences with the emotional substance to it.”
can you explain this a bit clearer?
I’m definitely feeling this way when it comes to Black women….and even more so here in the military.
I think people had me confused at first….It’s simple stuff I want to do. Like….if I’m hungry on a Friday night, I just want to find a Black woman decent enough to ask on a date to Chili’s to get some grub. (I’m in Korea, mind you….that is about as decent a restaurant as it gets as far as American food goes. Keep that in mind.)
I think some Black women have this misperception of what some Black men want when we approach them. If I’m asking her on a date….it’s a date. I’m not trying to marry her. I’m not trying to even have sex with her (at least not at that time)…..I don’t know how much more I can distinguish myself from whatever men it was that she dealt with in the past and still come off as desirable to a Black woman.
TheRealestLeo–I hope my words don’t offend you. Brotha, I am glad that you come here to share your thoughts and opinions, they are valued. But, is it at all possible that you have anything uplifting to say about Black women, relationships, etc.? I don’t want to spew out a bunch of cliches about how thinking more positively results in positive action, but understand that there is a connection between our perception and our reality. Again, I hope I did not offend you.
-OS
I wish I could say something more positive on a more consistent basis about my experiences with Black women thus far…..But I can’t. I’ve went from watching on the sidelines as Black women turned me away in favor of the thugs and losers they later would come complaining to me about to watching on the sidelines as Black women turned me away in favor of each other, White men, and everyone else under the sun.
As much as I want to be able to speak positively all the time about Black women in this arena…..the lack of positive results despite positive effort on my behalf makes this downright impossible.
@TheRealestLeo
Brother, I hear your plight and I truly do understand your frustration.
You’re probably just “wookin punub in all da wong paces’.
My only advice to you, is to not yet give up and turn your back on the black sistahs you clearly have an affinity towards.
Be patient, and the right one will eventually come along. Yes, that is cliche’ish, but its the truth. I understand that may not offer comfort to your plight, but it is real. On the same token, I hope your standards and expectations are not (as I shudder Side Show Bob style to state this) ‘too restrictive’ by today’s standards. You may want to re-evaluate your criteria in relation to today’s modern thinking and modern woman. *believe me, it hurt more to write that as advice*
It can get lonely on the sidelines, and there is no comfort and dignity in being second string. But waiting on the game to change in one’s favor is a fool’s hope. Unfortunately, times have changed, and to ensure your survival in this, you will have to adapt….or get ate up. Pimps up,….well, you know the rest.
Thanks for the advice. While “wait, and the right one will come along” does come off as cliquish, keep in mind that I’m not having a problem with running into BAD women….I know plenty of terrible (meaning undateble) women….I simply avoid them. What we have here is a straight-up LACK of decent women.
And my standards are not that high at all. I look for five very basic things in a woman: She’s over 21, she has a job, she has (at least) some kind of goals in life, she’s HETEROSEXUAL and actually interested in the opposite sex…and she’s drama-free.
Is that asking for too much? I bring all five of those things to the table, so why can’t she, too?
Typo—’cliquish’ should read ‘cliche-ish’. Got some other stuff on my mind I’m also pissed about.
I can’t cosign anything you said. Why? Because from other posts you’ve written, you seem pressed about finding “the one” and I’m sure that’s projected in how you deal with women. I remember you saying you make your intentions known relatively early in the dating cycle, so if that’s the case, AND you’re in the military….AND in Korea (relatively small) then folks know that cuz word travels fast in military circles. So a date to you may just be a date (which I doubt based on your previous posts) but to her she may know you as the “dude who is looking for a wife.” Nothing wrong with that, just pointing out the possibility of such thinking for where you are.
Also, I agree that you seem to have nothing good to say about black women, which is why you may attract those who seem to think nothing good about themselves. Again, just another observation on my part.
While it is true that maybe I give off an “I’m looking for the right one” vibe (which, in the grand scheme of things, I am), I am more than intelligent enough to know when it might not work out….In those cases….I’ll take making a new friend if everything above that level doesn’t seem like it’s going to happen. It’s not all or nothing when I date. Problem is….I don’t have any kind of dating pool to even begin from. That is a bigger issue than going on a couple bad dates. I’ve actually had very few bad dates in my life….it’s the sheer fact that I go 2-3 YEAR
While it is true that maybe I give off an “I’m looking for the right one” vibe (which, in the grand scheme of things, I am), I am more than intelligent enough to know when it might not work out….In those cases….I’ll take making a new friend if everything above that level doesn’t seem like it’s going to happen. It’s not all or nothing when I date. Problem is….I don’t have any kind of dating pool to even begin from. That is a bigger issue than going on a couple bad dates. I’ve actually had very few bad dates in my life….it’s the sheer fact that I go 2-3 YEARS in between dates that I have a problem with.
Are we excited about anything anymore? I don’t know if it’s because it’s the end of the year or that I need a vacation but people are really starting to get on my nerves. I only can speak off of what I see and talk like it’s you and me. We some hating arse people…period. We hate on everything. We’re more likely to try to compete with each other like crabs in a bucket. We’re so busy being arrogant, condescending and keeping our noses in the air to even admire one another now a days. Especially black women, yeah I said it. I typically defend black women but I notice an air of hateration amongst us. Yesterday I spent some time in the Black blog world just lurking mainly and I notice people just hating on everything (including their own mother, who does that?) smh. We also can be unrealistic. We want open relationships, we want to eff men on the first night yet be respected, etc. C’mon, seriously ladies? Everyone is jaded obviously but can we not see what’s making us sick of dating? I chose to be single for the me time however I’m in a relationship now and happy. I can’t deal with jaded, hating people anymore. I’m going to send a memo to my single friends to keep the rants until the new year. Here’s my advice: If you aren’t datable, don’t date!
Co-sign.
How’d I know you were thinking what I was thinking? o.O
…..reason 5,439 why I love you and your comments.
Bond. BlkBond.
Good morning! I think that people are afraid of being themselves, exposing who they really are and are afraid of rejection. I’m pretty blunt, admit that I like mayo and fries dammit. I like playing laser tag and admittedly chase the same kids around to up my score. Yes, I like to win at any cost LOL.
But it’s things like this that people should feel free to share and just have some fun! Worrying about being judged for not beiing that video chick or that Rundu model is old cheese.. Have some fun and love yourself so others can love you too. If you’re not into me fine, kick rocks or whatever. You’re taking up skating space. I love peanut patties from the great state of Texas. Yee-haw! And cowboys… *O_o*
mmm…mayo and fries.
hi-fives.
welcome and sh*t (i think), and way to come out with a bang
That’s the spirit!
And I can only eat fries with Mayo. Eff that ketchup business.
1. i appreciate the post.
2. i appreciate the answers i’ve read thus far
3. is there an answer to the question? is the answer to the question another question?
my answer? i truly don’t know. i think we need to figure out how to treat each other better in the community PERIOD. why are women treating each other like they do? why are the men killing each other over nothing? why do black people expect a discount from a black business just because they share the same skin colour? maybe it’s naive of me..but i’d like to think how i treat the sistas, will reflect how the brothas treat each other and maybe just maybe the whole community will move in a positive direction.
i went to a singles event on the weekend, and went in with trepidation. i expected the room to be full of women giving each other the side-eye and the dudes looking at me like a juicy piece of bbq chicken. and it turned out better than i expected. i was able to converse (haha..conversate) with dudes on a one to one level. the ladies were friendly and we were all running jokes with each other. it reminded me of being in elementary school at recess, everyone just playing red rover or freeze tag together, pretending that boys have cooties, but you secretly want them to still say hi.
and when i was asked for my digits – i was excited again. even if we don’t end up going out..it was a start. real communication.
my sister asked me last night what it is that i want. and it should be such a simple question to answer, but we get caught up in thinking about what we think we should say as opposed to what we want to say. she then asked me what i want in a dude. that was also easier to answer than i expected. after 10 yrs of dating and being in relationships, i’d like to think i’ve come up with some answers. finally she asked me what is stopping me from getting what i want and simply i said: men not knowing what they want.
in the end (sorry..been a hot minute since ive been able to post proper to vsb), it will always start with self. know you. love you. (i refuse to say work on yourself.. you are always a work in progress whether it’s conscious or not).
I agree. However, paradoxically speaking, there’s only so much ‘self’ we can work on by ourselves. A man will never learn how to function in a relationship by himself. A man will never learn how much he really has to offer to a woman….by himself. A man could think he’s the ideal catch….but still be by himself.
I have to say a big part of your positive attitude (and I love your questions) is the fact that you live in Canada. Seriously, I have like 11 friends from Canada and ya’ll are some positive, happy people. Don’t ever move to the U.S. cause ninjas stay negative down here. We are our own worst enemy and would rather give side eye to another female than focus on ourselves and what we need to be doing. Anywho, it’s hard knowing what you want and not finding it and I completely agree that sometimes women are ready to settle down at a younger age than men. They may not be ready until 35+ and 2 kids later. lolol
aww.. sfg..i’ve missed ya!
we aren’t all happy and positive. we’re broke, but healthy for the most part. lol.
but maybe that’s why i stay attracting us dudes??
*kanyeshrug.
Red Rover!
Getting to know people is fun! I think a dating event should be fun. Everyone is there with a common goal and, hopefully, a positive attitude.
Well, Champ, I for one, am excited! I love love, and I especially love Black love. I am actually overflowing with excitement!!! Maybe I’ve seen enough beautiful and exciting relationships that my perspective has not become so jaded. Or maybe I haven’t been enough bad relationships to relegate them futile. I don’t know, but I am as excited as a fat kid with cake. And no, I have not gone through any kind of therapy…LOL
Should read: *in enough bad relationships*
I am right there with you openly silent!
I love love. I love dating/being in a relationship/being single. All of that. I love meeting new people and keeping in contact with “old” people. I just love life.
I refuse to be jaded. Yall can miss me with all of this boring/I can’t find nobody/woe is me sh*t. F*CK THAT!
awww…skinny kids love cake too!
LMAO.
can i say essence.com’s weekly bridal feature makes me happy.
and i got a card from one of my first weddings ever (jamaican couple) yesterday. i heart it much. (those are my arms by the way). lol.
I agree, I love being in love. I actually like dating when it’s with someone I can see myself with. But, IMO, it’s more fun to give all that affection and attention to someone that constantly reciprocates it. You don’t have to hold back and wonder if you’re doing too much or feeling to too much, you can just let go. I love being in love more than I love dating.
Boring ass folks attract boring folks. Funny you’d write about this today as I wrote about a situation where these boring ass bishes were just taking up space while me and mine were on a ‘how much fun can we have up in this piece’ mission.
Too many times we date with the intention of judging instead of enjoying ourselves and/or being enjoyable.
I cosign with both of ya’ll. I like to have fun and will try to slip alittle humor in when I can. It’s good for the soul dammit and keeps me from being jaded. People take themselves way too seriously sometimes.
I honestly believe what leads to alot of the non-existant “Wow” factor is that we give way too much info on ourselves thoughout the courting/dating process. Like a poster said upthread about googling a person within seconds, there is just no mystery anymore to keep you interested. Sure, interesting conversation has to be made to draw a person in..but to me, much of the “courting” game has simply become an opportunity to recite your resume and accomplishments on how you’re a good catch and why your last relationship ended wasn’t your fault, blah, blah, blah..We all been guilty of it at some point and time.
I was married for 12yrs (separated the last 1.5, now divorced) and I can honestly say getting back in the actual “dating” game, where love..not sex being the end goal is very scary and depressing at times. You meet so many different women with so many different agenda’s that unless you have instant chemistry, once you’ve heard about her/his career, family, goals, sex do’s and don’ts, and past relationships there’s really no where else to go. So they deem you boring, you deem them boring and you move on..UNLESS you determine this person is worth persuing. Not neccessarily because they’re so “interesting” but because they’re loving, attractive, in line with your morals and values and compatible enough to start a life together. Just my opinion.
“we give way too much info on ourselves throughout the courting/dating process”
Agreed. We give some much of ourselves away that aren’t even excited about what we have to give to someone else. All these rules about what’s supposed to happen by the third date or how you’re “supposed” to be intimate at the end of 90 days…ridiculous.
Why can’t we save some of ourselves for ourselves…we give so much of ourselves away without considerable thought until there’s nothing left to give, so how can we be excited about sharing who you are when all of what makes you “you” is gone and spent on someone who can’t even remember your last name?
“Not neccessarily because they’re so “interesting” but because they’re loving, attractive, in line with your morals and values and compatible enough to start a life together. Just my opinion.”
I think this is where we start… just admitting that we want love and companionship with the possibility of more ~JS
I’ve always been the type of woman that loved love, as corny as that sounds. Each new person that I met was exciting and interesting because I loved learning their personal stories. After a while, the ups and downs of dating, particularly in the DMV, took a toll on me. For me, dating malaise was a direct result of dating fatigue. It began to seem more like a battlefield and I was definitely feeling shell shocked.
I met my current bf in that state of mind and was initially unimpressed by him. So unimpressed that I mentally wrote him off but remained on friendly terms. Months later, he asked me out again and since I’m also the “why not” type, I agreed. I must have been a lot more open and less cynical the second time around because the same exact person sat in front of me but my impression was completely different. I realized over time that we had so much in common and he was literally everything that I wanted in a guy. Within a month of spending time and getting to know each other, we were exclusive and I was telling my mom that I didn’t think I could do any better than him – not bc I had low self esteem but bc he was just that amazing to me.
In all, I think that we (both men and women) often close ourselves to the possibilities in others without even realizing it. Think of all the times that you go on a date with a “eh, this is just something to do” attitude. In my case, I was lucky and got a second chance. Otherwise, I would be writing about how dating sucks and how there is no one out there for me. If you go in with a negative mentality, chances are, you won’t see the positive. It’s really important that we give others the space to show us who they are, accept their imperfections and hope that they do the same for us.
It’s really important that we give others the space to show us who they are, accept their imperfections and hope that they do the same for us.
Major Cosign.
Cosign as well.
People are human and come with imperfections… and it’s learning to appreciate those imperfections that make love worthwhile…
I used to find it a tad juvenile that the Dude was such a Wu Tang fan, but this love of Wu Tang made us have an awesome Sunday evening at a Wu Tang concert… It’s the little things.
my apologies…
this post brought something to mind that i wrote last year…
I love shoes but waiting for the other to drop is the part I hate about them.
I wish there were some way I could avoid that way of thinking, but sometimes your past does have a way of messing with your future.
I’m not looking for perfection, just a good match – the right to my left, the flip to my flop.
Cuz when the shoe fits, nothing feels better.
And its true that you may have to try on many pairs before you find which to invest in.
And it is an investment.
Or at least should be.
Shopping at payless,you shouldn’t be too surprised when the shoe falls apart.
Buying shoes because they were on sale, because you were having a bad day, without trying them on will usually lead to regret.
And you should never regret a shoe.
Shoes make you feel good and look good.
They can change your mood and your body.
They can change how you see and present yourself.
(There is a reason why they say to always put your best foot forward)
So is it no wonder that every girl is in search of the perfect shoe?
That we see each other as competition rather than someone who could help us find the right size?
Which is sad, because isn’t one of the best part of shoes is that one size doesn’t fit all?
That there is truly a match for everyone?
Sure there is disappointment when you see a shoe of beauty, but it doesn’t fit or its not in your size.
But perhaps it didn’t fit your budget or would have caused you more pain in the end.
And if there is one thing we’ve all done, is worn/bought a pair of shoes that didn’t fit.
Knowing fully well it wouldn’t get better down the road.
Convincing ourselves that it could.
Or that it would.
If only we tell in advance those flats cut, the heels break, the upper doesn’t stretch before we open up our…wallets. We could save ourselves some pain and heartache.
But then there are the hidden gems.
The sale shoe everyone over looked.
The fave pair, go-to boot that would never let you down.
The shoe you’ve repaired and put more money into after the fact than when you originally bought it.
The shoe that goes with everything.
The shoe that makes someone stop you and say: what a great match!
Those are the shoes we should be wearing.
They are the shoes who will stand with you, help you stay tall, keep you grounded, pointy in the right direction and well rounded, walk with you, run away with you, help you jump and soar.
They will support and keep you warm.
They will protect you from the storm.
They are good right down to the sole and up to your soul.
Don’t forget you have to take care of your shoes, if they are going to take care of you.
Protect them, appreciate them for what they can and cannot do.
After all shoes is only one part of the outfit.
Maybe the Cinderella had it right, leaving a shoe behind so that instead of looking for it, it finds you.
And when it does, it may not be a seamless fit right away, like it is in the fairy tales.
You might need some time to become comfortable with it.
And there is nothing wrong with that.
Just remember, that if the shoe fits: you must wear it
Wear it well.
Wear it with pride.
Wear it with love.
@Keisha Brown
This entire post is what’s up….very insightful.
thanks Tx10.
*throws a twenty in the collection plate and does a church dance in jessica simpson pumps*
LOL in jessica simpson pumps.
she does make some cute shoes.
@KB… you had me at I love shoes ~JS
LOL.
it seems to be a thing with us ladies.. the shoe thang.
I am so in love with this comment right now. Can I marry it and take it home with me? I promise to take care of it I swear I will
@phildelity
yes. yes you can. just make sure there’s a walk in closet in the dream home.
Loves it!
I knew there was a reason I really liked you. This right here is it. On that note, I’m going to my meeting.
@ keishabrown: please, PLEASE get this copyrighted and published so I can feel free to post this in an FB Note AND print it out and tape it to my bedroom wall at home!
@ Cris Clever Name
feel free to post, share, print etc.. i’d be honored!
and yeah.. while i prob wouldn’t have posted one of my written pieces on the internet without prior copy and publishing rights…i felt inspired.
(and know that i can back my case up in a court of law if i need to).
ps: payless might also have some issue with me though. lol
ok keisha! I “published it”!
I wish there was a way I could send you the FB link so you can read the comments from my friends.
@Cris Clever Name
send me an email: sankofasoiree@gmail.com. i’ve never had other people (aka peeps other than friends and fam) read my writings! eeep!
Well, like a few of my constituients stated, love is missing from the relationship scene. You get into somebody simply for the fact that they’re there when nobody else is, not because you genuinely like them or want to get to know them. Everyone expects you to *want* to be with someone, even if you know that person isn’t the one for you, or even near to what you like or could learn to like at all.
There’s no mystery to anything at all. Ever. Anything you ever want to know about anybody is up on their Facebook, their Twitter, their Tumblr, whatever. I ran into a guy the other day who was into me and instead of asking me for my number, he told me to Facebook him. Seriously.
Also, with the women, it seems there is a large lack of respect for themselves and decorum. An associate of mine called me last night to tell me about her fellating techniques with a guy who’s name she couldn ‘t remember. A close friend of mine, whenever we go out, always asks if she’s showing enough clevage, enough leg and enough @ss to attract someone. Personally, I get told I’m old-fashioned; I don’t kiss and tell, I don’t dress too chest out-@ss up. Though it’s cost me a few fleeting attentions, I’ve kept my self-respect in tact, and the men who persue me as of late realize that I’m not someone you can just buy a McRib and then get busy with in the backseat. Women show men how they want to be treated by how they treat themselves, and if men see you treating yourself lack-luster and like you’re not worth what you think you are, they’re going to fake it til they make it in your pants then split.
So, lack of love, lack of mystery, and lack of decorum. That’s what’s making it so tedious to try to date people these days. I feel like I rambled, but there’s probably some good points in there.
@Tes
So, lack of love, lack of mystery, and lack of decorum. That’s what’s making it so tedious to try to date people these days. I feel like I rambled, but there’s probably some good points in there.
Great points.
Thanks Tex, it was before my morning tea so I wasn’t sure if I was clear or not. But what do you think is lacking?
Thanks Tex, it was before my morning tea so I wasn’t sure if I was clear or not. But what do you think is lacking?
Mystery. I’m not telling women to be a “mute” on a date or the phone and you’re making me feel like I have to drag something interesting out of you. But leave some things to the imagination.
Don’t be a prude, but make me work for it as well. As much as I might want to know everything about you in a single conversation…I don’t NEED to know everything about you in a single conversation..or two. And if I do find out everything and feels there’s nothing left but tha sex, I have to ask myself “Are you worth persuing past mundane?” Do I want to REALLY see who you are beneath the superficial side show to impress me?
But, in the same breath I also feel “am I revealing too much, too soon?” is something women shouldn’t stress about If the relationship is meant to be, everything will fall into place..on both sides.
@ Tes
I’m only telling you this because I like you. Be very careful with your “looser” associates. Right or wrong if you’re spotted with a slut committee guys tend to think that McRib will get you into the backseat. I’m different. I know the McRib will only get me front seat action! j/k
We hate love? lol I cosign alot of your points. Mystery IS s.exy. I haven’t mastered this art and probably never will, but it’s a part of my charm. lol I cosign this too: “A close friend of mine, whenever we go out, always asks if she’s showing enough clevage, enough leg and enough @ss to attract someone.” What happened to the face combined with personality? Self-respect plays a major part in getting respect from others.
Not so much that we hate love, Foxy, but TV and magazines have us all spinning with what it is, how to get it, how you know you’ve got it, how to keep it, to the point where it’s no longer natural as it should be. It’s become a process, a chore, to find and keep it. And most women I know are always, *always* looking for it. I’ve found that the moment you stop looking, that’s when all the offers come because then there’s no air of love desperation.
Apparently, men don’t like women for their personalities anymore FoxyBrown. We’re behind the curve thinking that our personalities and sensibilities mean anything these days
.
Dating-For-Love and women’s liberation killed everything.
Yes, I went there.
In the past, people got married (young) because men and women desperately needed one another for mere survival. You fell in love after the wedding. Hopefully.
Then technology made life easier, so men could survive alone. Women still needed men, because they weren’t all the way free yet.
Then women’s liberation came along and allowed women to live as fully functional, self-sufficient human beings.
Here’s the thing.
When women are free to date as they wish, they wind up all gravitating to the same 3 – 7% of the male population. If they can’t get those guys, they just drop out of the dating market altogether.
This is why monogamy was even created by societies in the first place.
When women have their way, the vast majority of people, male and female, get completely left out in the cold. Monogamous marriage essentially forces women to accede to some dude, somewhere out there. If a dude can’t pull a woman, he’s going to drop out of society too. Work hard and innovate to make money? What for? He ain’t got no kids. Take up arms to defend his homeland from threats? Yeah right – he’s not vested in it in teh first place.
Like you mentioned yesterday, most women are completely underwhelmed by the vast majority of guys they encounter or know. I’m still uncertain as to why that is, but it’s the root of everything.
Interesting perspective on this subject. I’m going to let this marinate some.
“Then technology made life easier, so men could survive alone. Women still needed men, because they weren’t all the way free yet.
Then women’s liberation came along and allowed women to live as fully functional, self-sufficient human beings”
Another part is that we feel like we don’t need each other. Which is sad because for many years all we had was each other. I blame slavery and then the slave mentality for a number of reasons.
This isn’t really a black thing, though.
This is happeneing to 2520′s big time, right now.
It’s an advanced society thing.
i won’t say whether i agree or disagree with what you’re saying, because I’m very interested in seeing a rebuttal to this argument, and i dont want to influence anybody
Totally agree. Reason why families are the basic unit of any society. People (men) who are not vested in the welfare of a family will have a hard time being vested in the betterment of any community.
I watched Megamind (don’t hate, it was good. Lol) and it showcased how the basic concept of good and evil revolves around what people have to lose/win/fight for etc…
Great points here.
@tes
i so wish it was just that. my friend hosts singles events, and has a group, so i joined. 3 dudes from the group hit me up on the side. and even though to the whole group and individually i made sure to mention that im more than just my womanly parts.. they still are pretty much just coming at me with the x-rated. (both 30+). and im oh-so-over it. they say that they hear and respect what im saying..but their actions say the COMPLETE opposite.
call me greedy, but i want a man that wants me for WHOLE of me..not just the HOLES of me.
*sigh…
@KB
Then you don’t settle for that. You tell them what you think and not let them think it’s okay to treat you as glory holes and nothing else. If all else fails, walk away and show your attention elsewhere. I know it goes against female society to turn down male attention these days, but do that. Plus, it’s not just women with a lack of respect or a lack of decorum these days. Sometimes you just gotta say “Say bruh, you steppin over some boundaries here,” and keep it moving.
@tes..
1. i have no idea how this ended up being a msg instead of a reply. womp. lol. but glad you caught it anyways!
but yes.. you are exactly right. you determine how you are going to be treated. i could be boo’ed up right now..if i was willing to settle for peanuts. mi nah want peanuts..mi want oxtail with rice and peas and fried plaintain.
have i mentioned im greedy? lol.
@sfg
bwahahahahahaa. stop killing me bout potato sack. i get it. im a full bucket of chicken – breast, legs and thighs. but damn.. can you make attempts to learn my last name instead of if i like a tongue licking my (fill in the blank).
I’m sorry KB but I know why. As having the priviledge of being your fb friend, I see alot. And um…I’ve told you this before but you got body! You could wear a XXL potato sack and your breasts, curves and butt would still show. It’s not the mens fault. Cut them some slack.
She shouldn’t cut them no kinda slack FoxyBrown! If she’s got some dangerous curves, she knows she looks good, and those same men have to know she gets told that same thing at least once or twice a day. If we don’t paw and drool over them (at least publically) they should offer the same courtesey. lol
@KB
I’m sorry KB but I know why. As having the priviledge of being your fb friend, I see alot. And um…I’ve told you this before but you got body! You could wear a XXL potato sack and your breasts, curves and butt would still show. It’s not the mens fault. Cut them some slack.
Ummm KB, Imma need access to that FB page. Stickly to defend your honor of course.
*Strictly to defend your honor
bwahahahahahaaaaaaaaaaaaa…. @ Tx10. dont kill me.
just get on twitter. that’ll be enough.
SFG – look at what you started!!!! i luv ya for being my e-cheerleader tho! (and umm.. you one to talk about body!!).
I dont know Champ. Its pretty hard to keep from being disillusioned with dating as it is now.
Ive been working on myself for a while now its kinda boring lol. Its hard to retain hope that there is someone out there instead of just saying fugg it all i got my body pillow and some rum punch.
Folks are real full of themselves these days. Go out in DC and its almost guaranteed the guys are having more fun with each other than with the women and likewise for the females.
I dont know how we fix it. Confidence is great but so is humility.
Ehhhh que “Lost in the World” and “Who will survive in America”
“cue”
oh they having more fun with each other in more ways than one sad but true esp round these parts.
No but like Ms Smart was saying, when I go out, I always go out to have fun, not stand around joning, or wit my ass on my back etc, or being Anti otherwise what’s the point….
@ Orange star: exactly to your entire comment!
ah…
lost in the worrrrrrrllllllld…..
I think i wanna have that songs’ babies lol
@nicole N
i’ve already given my body to that whole album.
I was just telling my friends who are in relationships my thoughts on this. Of course when you’re single the first thing everyone asks you is if you’re seeing anyone or if there are any “potentials.” My response is that for the past several months I have been pretty underwhelmed. Not that I haven’t had the opportunity to date, but life is short and time is precious, I see no use in waisting my time when I’m underwhelmed. I’m open to meeting someone if the time is right but I’m not about to go on frivilous dates with guys I’m unenthusiastic about just to say I’m dating. Not that I’m looking for someone to be Mr. Everything Right Now to get me excited about him, but I think its just a gut feeling men and women get about the opposite sex when they are genuinely interested in someone. I think that with our generation we have a lot of really busy people, and dating/ courting/ talking to/ whatever the phrase you choose to use takes time and effort. So I think that a lot of us get so busy and caught up in other things that we’re not as willing to “go through the motions” on those who are underwhelming.
My advice to my single friends at this point- just pick some damn body. it doesn’t have to be too complicated. Does he like to go to work everyday? Does he like you? Does he seem crazy? If everything lines up, just stick with the brother.
“is this, this mating malaise, just the way it’s always been, and are we just the first generation to actually express it? “
No.
The moment women decided to ‘play the game’ as men do. is when things fell apart. No Chinua Achebe or Roots band
Story time. Gather ’round children since i know some of ya’ll love stories.
Mr. SoBo’s Fairy Tale
Once upon a time, a long, long time ago, right here on earth, there existed a time where p*$$y was a highly valued commodity. Generally, in order to acquire this precious item, one had to also assume responsibility for the woman it was attached to in the form of a serious and or loving relationship. It was a package deal and heavily marketed as such.
Then came women’s lib. It was a monumentus milestone in the women’s movement, and a cause for celebration. The liberation of women from the conservative chains that once bound them. Freedom and equality and most importantly, S*xual Liberation!!!
So overtime, in terms of dating, women became no longer highly motivated to seek wifely status/position. The interest had shifted from marriage and meaninful relationships, and evolved to ‘playing the game’. Not only ‘playing the game’, but attempting desperately to play it as men do. Hence, the tsunami of @ss influx into the otherwise seemingly quiet pond of genuine courtship. Boom! Poww! P*$$y here, p*$$y there, p*$$y every-got dang-where. There was no escaping it. It was even in the trees! It came raining down from the heavens, and all the kings horses and all the kings men, basked in the unyielding bath of sparkling vajayjay cider.
Now, although p*ssy is still very much sought after, it is no longer a package deal, nor is it promoted as such. It is now easily accessible with minimal to NO effort, and with no obligation to acquire the woman it is attached to either. Meaning, no courtship necessary. No wooing down. No need to impress. No need to love. Why? Because she is woman, hear her roar. She is empowered, independent, in charge of her sexuality, and most importantly, she is absolutely okay with this.
-The end-
And there you have it. That is how and why we began caring less about putting our best foot forward, and feeling a need to impress to be chosen as a viable mating candidate. We have given up on eachother. We have given up on love. We are gathered here today on the anniversary, to mourn the passing of chivalry and the need to impress one another. *yeah, yeah, I know changing, misplaced and destroyed value systems(and family) etc, etc, had a lot to do with this too. But I’ll leave that for someone else to address*
Wow. I’m kind of all over the place with it today. I havent even proofread or organized my thoughts. But for some reason, Im indifferent today. *SoBo shrug*
And thatisall…WOW!
*claps*
SoBo, you weave together a fantastic (and sadly true) story. My questions would be how to come back from such a movement, and what happens to the women who embrace, but do not participate in said movement?
*patiently waits with notepad*
You ain’t ask me, but, the way to come back will only be recovery after some society-wide crisis. Like, a real crisis. On some Children of Men/The Road/Madea Runs For Illinois Senator type stuff.
Or more likely, as situation where the marriage rate drops even further, and professionals almost stop having children altogether. That’s all gonna take another 2, maybe 3, generations, probably.
Scipio, that’s terribly bleak. Can’t it be simpler than that? The world doesn’t have to end (or come close) for people to see the value in each other.
Also, if the professionals stop having children that doesn’t mean that everyone else would. So essentially, the professionals and those capable of parenting children the right way stop having children but those who aren’t keep having children the world would be run by the same people making the most mistakes now. Which is a terrifying thought.
-More descriminating tastes. Less “*Ring-ring-ring*come and geeeeeeet iiiiiit” in the meantime until that suitable mate comes along.
-Raise standards.
-Eliminate this defeatest and self loathing attitude.
-Love yourself and be honest with YOURSELF about yourself. Not in theory and concept, but TRULY. Once you do, you will treat yourself better and expect nothing but the best for yourself.
- Accountability. You are your choices.
-Purge yourself from the eternal solipsism of the female mind. Nosa lol!! But seriously, the delusion must stop.
What is sad is that women are playing a game they will NEVER win.
In terms of relationships/lifestyle:
The more women try to be like men, the more undesireable that women becomes. Men don’t want other ‘men’. For some reason, people don’t get that simple treasure of a fact.
And for the record, I aint knockin’ anyone’s ‘get down, get down’. By all means, do what makes you happy. However have reasonable expectations consistent with the choice of life. Which is why I say, ‘Live the life you love, but do you love the life you live’?
You are you’re own worst enemy. Not men. Not circumstance. YOU.
@Mr. SoBo
Damn dawg…You put your foot in that entire post homie.
indeed aint no more to say!
The more women try to be like men, the more undesireable that women becomes. Men don’t want other ‘men’. For some reason, people don’t get that simple treasure of a fact
this is too long for a tshirt. how to spread this message to the masses????????? im also looking at Steve for writing and ANYONE for buying and reading think like a man..act like a lady.
i am a lady.. henceforth, ergo, furthermore can ONLY be, act and think like one. ugh. and he’s got ANOTHER coming.
SOMEONE make it stop and please think of the children! *in maude flanders voice
@Sobo
Much respect…just drop the mic, walk away and end this thread. Well said bruh
BINGO!!!
SoBo
this. comment. is. the. truth.
period.
full. stop.
the. effen. end.
applauds.
ps: even in the trees. falls. off. couch.
Wow, as the resident perv, I cosign this message. Why? Because like it or not, it’s truth.com. I don’t even think it’s about being a saint or angel. It’s the whole “Lady in the streets, Freak in the sheets” mentality. Anything held at value is because of it’s rarity. This applies to EVERYTHING: stones, foods, birds, p*ssy, etc. If it’s easy to find, then the value goes down. We’re discussing the same principle on singleblackmale. Why would a man pursue a woman if he can get another at ease? I think people mix up the diff between being freaky and being EASY. It’s one thing if the woman isn’t looking for a man and just wants to play, fine. But expecting to be “wifed” up when your actions don’t follow is unrealistic.
You sir should start your own blog!
Co-sign. Or write a book.
Personally, I’d like a signed copy of “Life According to SoBo”, please and thank you.
“I’d like a signed copy of “Life According to SoBo”
I wouldn’t go that far. lololol Maybe some of his views on women though.
Another good one, my dude.
100% agree. We (women) were sold a dream…and it’s a nightmare. I know that sound cliche but it’s true. We cannot and should not pursue out lives as men do. There is a yin to the yang, an up to the down and a right to the left. If women would UNDERSTAND this and stop trying to do the whole “I can f-k a man and not care about him” thing, then we’d be moving in the right direction. Because contrary to popular belief, laying down with someone, having them enter you, exchange passions and pleasantries, and then not care whether they get hit by a bus as they cross the street leaving your home isn’t a desirable trait. And it contributes to the reason why folks hate (yes, I said hate) each other so.
How can you love someone when you can’t even bring yourself to like who you are enough to value not sleeping with and doing all things relationship oriented with a person you don’t even care for?
SMH…I don’t get it. And we wonder why “love” isn’t enough for us anymore. What we are practicing isn’t a recipe for love. It’s a recipe for singlehood for life.
Good story.
I find your theory that it all started “the moment women decided to ‘play the game’ as men do…” interesting.
Is this to say that men are not accountable whatsoever, and that the current state of affairs would be better if women just ‘all went back to being barefoot & pregnant in the kitchen?’
Because somehow, I really doubt that’s the case.
And I hate to think of a world where one has to choose between equal treatment as a human being or having a good relationship. The two concepts should not have to be mutually exclusive.
As far as having given up on each other, I totally agree.
No, it wouldn’t all go all humming birds and Disney musicals the minute women decided to be women, because that still leaves the issue of men being men. I think because women have taken on this whole independant women (question.) movement, men feel like they don’t have to do as much to take care of a woman, after all, she’s out here doing it for herself and sh*t, right? Men would have to step up to the plate to be men to their women and to take over the reigns as the head of the relationship monster.
That’s not to say we all become June Cleavers and yes dear our men to death. If you had a job when you met him, you keep that job. If you were out doing things for you when you met him, keep doing it. I think people confuse being in a relationship with someone as giving up everything for that person. No one in a relationship is asking you to give up your rights; they simply ask you to consider theirs as well.
@Magnanimous
good point.
@Magnanimus
“Is this to say that men are not accountable whatsoever, and that the current state of affairs would be better if women just ‘all went back to being barefoot & pregnant in the kitchen?’”
Of course not. I’m not sure how one could even make such an inference from anything I wrote. Thats a bit extreme and counter productive. How did you get that?
“And I hate to think of a world where one has to choose between equal treatment as a human being or having a good relationship. The two concepts should not have to be mutually exclusive.”
I’m sorry, what? Again, I’m not sure how one would possibly make such an inference from anything I wrote. This is completely outside the perspective from which I was speaking. And like the above, to advocate anything of the sort is counterproductive to healthy relationships.
I think you missed my point. I was emphasizing understanding the importance of balance, motivation and economies of scale.
Anyway as far as men being accountable: We are always held accountable…for e.ver.y.thing. How many more years will we spend pointing the fingers(and some of the wrong fingers) at men for relationship ills as if there is not another side to the equation? That song has been on rotation since forever. We’ve Twisted, Pepperseed, Stepped in the name of Love and the Dougied the hell out of that sheeiit.
Furthermore, relationships consist of two individuals.
Can’t fix one side and not the other and expect things to work. Particularly when the one side is an enabler to the other and is oftentimes the source of their own problems. Besides, I’m tired of reading ‘n*ggaz aint sh*t’. Aren’t you?
SoBo
i am tired of reading n*gg*z aint s#*t. but just as tired as your degrees wont keep you warm and your standards are too high girlfriend and maybe you should try a white guy.
tired of it all.
signed,
TIYAD.
I agree that we have all been oversold on our own greatness and set up to expect that those that we encounter will be just as great as we believe that we are.
I think I just confused the sht out of mySELF…(lol)…but I’m serious.
“the fact that very few single black people seem to be excited about or happy with the idea of each other”
When you say “idea”, do you mean the idea of black men and women getting to know each other?
I only ask because when I speak with my clients they say thats the most fustrating part about dating because people are rarely what they seem. Which is also the most fearful part of dating.
“But, right now I’m more interested in finding out what we can do to get us excited about each other again.”
I like the positive approach Champ. Check this out.
Men: We should ask ourselves, why “most single black women seem to think that the typical single man is about as intriguing as a septic tank filled with empty Snickers wrappers” This is really disturbing to me. I mean really, what happened to “real game” (and by game I mean sincere, thought provoking, mental stimulating, panty wetting, leg crossing, restroom break sensual conversation used as foreplay). This has nothing to do with sex yet. People should date like the movie “the usual suspects” slowly build the excitement, tease a little, drop clues, do the unexpected, keep’em guessing, thinking, wondering not worrying, build anticipation, just when they think they got you figured out, drop a bomb on them that says you will never get bored and I will always give you something to think about. This can potentially drive a woman crazy in the best way possible. We gotta be more than one dimensional. Everybody likes dinner and a movie but if its boring to you its probably boring to her too, but we so afraid to be different it scary. But its the boredom that has us at odds with each other. Step out the box, step out the comfort zone and live a real life doing real things.
I had a girlfriend who I invited to go hiking with me one Saturday morning. She was hesitant and complained the whole time she got dressed. By the time we got the our destination and got 5 minutes into the hike, she got real quiet. I asked if she was ok, and when I turned around she had teared up. So I asked whats wrong, she said ” I used to go on walks through the woods with my father when I was young and I just realized that I haven’t been outside this early on a Saturday morning since then.”
With this I believe we carry the key to our sistas hearts, but you have to have a heart to nurture anothers. Just make an attempt to be creative and see where it gets you.
“most single black women seem to think that the typical single man is about as intriguing as a septic tank filled with empty Snickers wrappers. This is really disturbing to me. ”
I didn’t know most of us felt this way. LOL But I assure you that many of us are not looking to be intrigued by every other brother that walks by. *shrugs*
“People should date like the movie “the usual suspects”
Just wanted to point out that this movie is in my top 5 favorites! “Keyser Söze!”
Six months ago I would have been on board with this idea but lately I have been finding or rediscovering men who seem really interesting…interesting enough to want to date. Typically I am a non-dater by choice, mostly because
men scare meI am a late bloomer and don’t know what I’m doing half the time. There’s men I’m attracted to, then there’s men who are attracted to me, and then there’s men who I really enjoy as friends–rarely if ever do I find a man who fits in all three of those categories; I’m lucky if they fit in 2 out of 3.But all of a sudden it’s raining men. Or at least, potential men. I didn’t have to make concessions on my “standards” either. It’s kind of bizarre how this unfolded, as I was on my way to giving up hope.
Don’t take this to mean I am going on any actual dates though lol. Oh no, I’m still dateless. But at least at the ripe old age of 29 I am still able to find a few men who I would actually be interested in getting to know better. Progress!
Oh, all that to say….the way to get excited about each other is to 1) have some standards and 2) stick to them. I think the media scare about Black women and men is causing us to give concessions to the point where we are bored beyond eternity about each other.
I know no other way Liz and if some men like Sobo illustrated choose not to step up because they are catching so much other ass with minimal/no effort, then those men have eliminated themselves for any chance with me and no one’s time is wasted.
I tend to think those men will wake up one day and find themselves unfulfilled in some capacity. Maybe not today, maybe not tomorrow, but some day. It all evens out in the end lol.
A and men!! I volunteer/about to start working in geriatrics and when I see a lot of single elderly me…I think about how I hope the men around me now realize that there’s more to life than getting SOME FOR RIGHT NOW. It might be a stretch to go there, but I’m telling you, it kinda sucks(not for everyone) to be old and single (again not for everyone)
“choose not to step up because they are catching so much other ass with minimal/no effort,”
Some men have a young mans complex, where they want to stay young and dumb and hit as many women as possible.
Truth is thats a phase that some guys get stuck in. And in the end they end up alone with prostate cancer catheters and a limp johnson.
We need a stickwithitedness movement in the black community.
LOL right…
As great of an idea as ‘sticking with’ people sounds…..Ain’t happening, Turbo.
In this day and age, everything’s all about the newest, the next upgrade, and the latest and greatest. Women treat men like iPhones…..it’s all good until Version 24.3 comes out….Then they kick that Version 24.2 that’s rode and died with them since 24.1 was out….STILL MAKES PHONE CALLS…..still gets on the Internet at the same speed….still has all the contact info in it….still has all 1,165 apps she downloaded on it……to the curb.
@the realest leo
out of all the things you’ve written. this is one of the most offensive. (i dont know why im surprised tho).
i get that you can only speak as a man that supposedly wants to date women, but um.. yeah.
i’ll put it to this way: you never know who you are talking to. or who is reading. right now, there could be an nfl player who loves cdn ladies (*waves hi)..waiting for right time and opportunity to say hello and introduce himself to me. (im kidding).
every time you leave your house or speak is a networking opportunity. an opportunity to showcase yourself. im sure there are a few vss’ that read (lurkers and commenters) and would fit your criteria..but the way you present yourself is why the self-fulfilling prophecy of your life will continue. you can only blame the environment and lesbian-man-hating women so much.
I think society has changed. We are increasingly mobile and consequently are spending our dating years in communities that may be very different from the ones where we grew up. Not just black people deal with it, others do too. Finding a partner who seems familiar and is a good fit,shares a similar background and values and just looks and dresses in a manner that appeals to us isn’t as easy as it once was.
Its kinda like if you grew up in China then moved to Norway,what you grew up expecting and what you have imprinted taste wise doesn’t exist so there’s not going to be that automatic response-me likey!! I mean, when people al llived in small towns or villages and shared a common culture it was easy to find someone compatible. Now,you’re looking for a needle in a haystack.
Add me to the list of women with no interest, nothing I see whets my appetite. Not that there are no men here,just none that click when I see them- their dress,demeanor,grooming etc. doesn’t match what I’m looking for and despite thinking they are nice or look good, there is no chemistry- no attraction.
Great post Champ. As I’m browsing through the comments, I think the common theme and our problem is that VSB/VSS are too smart. Here me out. Folks are doing complicated intergenerational comparisons divided by years of failed relationship then multiplied by expectations. Its not that complicated. Falling in love is effortless, staying in love takes work. Its a matter of those cards falling in the right place, at the right time. My advice is for us to all keep an open mind, enjoy doing what we do, and be patient.
It seems that we’ve fallen victim to having too many options. I don’t think our grandparents found themselves in the same malaise because they existed in a society that did not afford as many options. You met someone you liked, love hopefully ensued, marriage usually ensued, at that was that. Every individuals world was significantly smaller, so there was not as much worry about the “deal” that you weren’t getting. You didn’t know about it, and therefore you really could worry about it.
In today’s world, we can customize essentially everything…everything except other people. Though we are conscious that my previous statement is true, our collective consciousness leads us to believe otherwise. Think about it – when you can configure your car, phone, computer, etc to your personal tastes, why wouldn’t you erroneously try to do the same thing with other people. Sadly, once folks realize that you can’t do that, they become disenchanted and check out of the game.
In other words, this malaise is likely a product of our “microwave” iSociety. Relationships don’t configure easily, nor are good ones quickly forged. This is in directly contravention to what most people are used to dealing with these days.
“In today’s world, we can customize essentially everything…everything except other people.”-
THIS- even though I think dating venues like Match.com, Chemistry, etc. were founded to make dating customizable as well.
wow- A benz doesn’t wow me, a huge house or a bank account with an insane amount of money do not wow me.
Intellectual stimulation wows me, so does deep connection – If I don’t feel connected to a man on some non-surface level, it’s hard for me to be “wowed.” My kind of wow is hardly ever automatic, it usually takes time.
Like in my most recent relationship, I don’t remember being wowed when I first met my ex. I didn’t even remember what he looked liked honestly. Months later we would meet again. It was the 2nd time that I realized that he was attractive. Over time I became wowed by his following traits: hardworking, gentlemanly, good with his hands (get your minds out the gutter, manly and sweet. The fact that he was also a tad bit awkward was even more endearing.
As to my past fairy tale view of love, I blame it on all those romance novels I was consumed with growing up. I couldn’t wait to become an adult and get swept off my feet by my perfect prince charming. Experience would teach me that my prince charming won’t have to be perfect and that happily ever after doesn’t come without work.
I’m about to say something really controversial. Here goes:
I love black people!
That’s it. In this day and age, we seem to obsessed with the “wrong” of each other that to actually admit that you like or even love something is met with a sigh, side-eye or harsh words. Why? I don’t know, and I’m not gonna stop to find out.
I love black men. Maybe that’s why I attract them. I’m not of the school of thought that there is a shortage. There isn’t. And I’ve been around the world (no Puffy) and it’s all the same. Lived abroad…found black men. Lived in small towns…found black men. Lived in metropolitan areas…found black men. And not low quality, grateful to just be in your presence type black men, but men with substance. Men bringing qualities and characteristics to the table that compliment me in some positive way.
I’m tired of hearing about the plight of black folks in love…or on their way to love. It’s lame. For 2011, can we please, smart black people, leave the notion that love for us doesn’t exist behind? One report by some unsuccessful in love, decent looking chicks on Nightline should not be the catalyst to us believe black love is on its way to the land of fairytales. Because it’s not. All the weddings I’ve been to in the past year, all the folks getting engaged, having children, raising their children, staying together…all of those black folks would appreciate us focusing on the positive and not that media force-fed negativity and bitterness toward our own.
It’s depressing, sad and most of all untrue that we as a people are destined to live single, lonely and destitute lives when it comes to love.
So, again I reiterate, stop perpetuating the myth that black love is on the decline. It’s not and I’m soooo tired of hearing about it.
AGREED!!!!! Interestingly the vast majority of the black men I know in real life do not fit into the negative stereotypes I hear about them. I was beginning to think that the black men I knew were figments of my imagination, had me questioning my sanity and *ish. Because so many of them are good, solid, upstanding men.
tell dem again Mo!!
my name is keisha brown and i too love black people
(except when they want to show up at 10pm to an 8pm event..im just sayin).
LOL at the time comment…you know our people are notoriously late.
i do. but it still drives me ca-ray-zee.
i was near-death..dont drive and STILL made it on time.
im looking forward to the day i get married and ppl show up to the ceremony to LOCKED doors.
and if you think i wont…
LOL, I’m so over people being late about “CP time”. Folks know I’m not waiting for them anymore. I’m leaving without you or I’m going home.
I’m on time 94% of the time. LOL, I do have times when I’m late, but I considerate when I am. I’ll call and say “hey, I’m gonna be late by xyz minutes,” so folks can do what they need if necessary.
And I stay driving just so I can dictate when I come and go. Nothing is worse than waiting for someone when you’re ready to bounce.
I love black people as well. I love my people. I love black men especially. But I can honestly say this has not been my experience. The single men like the ones you’ve described have been the exception instead of the rule. I can’t say this is 100% on them because I have put myself in some questionable environments, but I have found they are not just falling from the sky. I’ve have to put myself in locations where those type of men are.
WIP…another component of black love is self love. I’m not saying you don’t have it. I’m saying that anything you haven’t taken care of in you will spill into how you deal with men.
Or it could just be what you said about putting yourself in an environment where the type of men you want to attract are. Of course, if you want a BMW, you don’t go to a Kia dealership. LOL, so I agree with that wholeheartedly.
Yes! You know I firmly believe that people give off vibes that most are smart enough to pick up. If you’re negative, it shows. Then people will treat you negatively, then more drama, then you become jaded, etc. Some just don’t understand this. I’m generally a happy, fun person and laugh alot. Yeah I have my b*tchy moments where I can be cynical but who doesn’t. It’s an over all attitude/belief that people see in you and makes you that much more interesting. There’s been negative things said about us since the beginning. We are competing with each other now because of slavery. There are so many exaggerations about us and love. Smh
“You know I firmly believe that people give off vibes that most are smart enough to pick up.”
Agreed. You attract what you think about yourself or project. The end! LOL
Well stated.
Kudos for being positive, sister…
Thanks for this. We love you too. Having to carry around the baggage of the black stereotypes is hard enough for both sexes in everyday life. The last place we need that cynicism is at home or in the bedroom.
@mo vss and the sistas,
thanks because i love ya’ll too.
I don’t where I would be without the women in my life. They make me better, stronger, they give me courage and inspiration. They provide support and guidance. They feed me and make my shelter look presentable. One even gave my life. I am forever in debt to ya’ll.
You both are very welcome!
I can’t do it alone. That’s all I’ve been saying since I joined this site.
A friend of mine just made an interesting comment that I am posting on her behalf since laziness won’t let her do it herself, lol
“The people who are being wowed are the folks who don’t get a chance to date a lot for whatever reason. For them, the novelty hasn’t worn off completely. Those of us who aren’t getting wowed are the folks who go on tons of dates. After a while, dudes all begin to look the same and sound the same. It takes an extra special person to stand out amidst the masses”
I think the last paragraph is more along the lines of what I would say to explain the “mating malaise.” And I would DEFINITELY co-sign on the entitlement of the young, black, educated folk.
We have so many options now, from all the grey area titles (just talking, dating, kicking it, casually dating, etc) that shirk commitment and exclusivity, to divorce as a social norm. There’s this pervasive idea of exercising freedom of choice and “not settling.” But I wonder if we’re even really seriously considering each other as potential mates in the first place.
I’m 23, and I was living in D.C. where I felt like there were so many black men who were attractive and doing their thing, very nice ambitious men–on paper. The egos were crazy. They knew they were a desirable group of men and acted like it. I don’t know if it’s my age group (though they were normally 2-3 years older) but to me it was clear how they were thinking–I’m desired and I don’t have to settle because I have all the options in the world. My answer: Well, yes you do, but if you don’t give one of those options a chance because you’re always looking to the next, then of course you wouldn’t settle!
Women are guilty of the same, esp if we are educated and young professionals or graduate students–we love to say we’re looking for our Obama. So we’re all walking around with our noses in the air knowing we are the sh*t, bumping into each other b/c we’re all so busy feeling ourselves and not taking the time to really get to know one another.
So, in short, with all of our grey area dating rituals and “onto the next” mentality, we are an entitled bunch of brats that are so sure we can find somebody better that we don’t give our interested members of the opposite sex a real and sincere chance.
SN: Could somebody PLEASE tell me where in NYC I can find some eligible black men around my age???? I live uptown and go to grad school in Greenwich Village and between the two, and when I go out, I never see anyone. I’m starting to feel like NYC is quantity over quality, and that’s disappointing since I have to be here for two years. DC was so much easier to pinpoint where the young, black and educated crowd was….somebody tell me where it is here!!
I love Negril Restaurant/Lounge in the Village, West Indian spot. It’s on West 3rd between Thompson and Laguardia.
Night of the Cookers – Fort Greene, Brooklyn. There’s also alot of other cool spots in that area and Clinton Hill.
Fashion 40 and Bar 41 in Times Square.
South Street Seaport in the summer (one of my all time faves)
Some other good neighborhoods are Harlem, Brooklyn Heights, Cobble Hill and Carroll Gardens in Brooklyn.
Also, try searching for Facebook groups, Twitters and blogs dedicated to young black professional events in NYC. But whatever you do, stay away from Meetup! God they will bombard the heck out of you w e-mails.
I hope this helps!
I think that its been this way ever since black folks stopped having love for each other as a whole.
One thing that has remained standard is the “80/20″ rule;
At best, the most any PERSON can expect to get is 80% of what they want and need from another person… and even that is being optimistic.
I think our society as a whole has sold us a false bill of sale regarding relationships.
Then, once you add in all the extra issues that we have as black people, it seems like a “no-win” situation overall.
This is a good, thought provoking post, Champ. I hate that something like this is a trending topic today among black folks, but I will throw my two cents in on it.
I guess for me, I can’t give up. I can’t give up on being me. I can’t give up on being an hopeless romantic. I can’t give up on being that good man for that great woman someday. I can’t give up on my black women and the potential to be happy. It may sound idealistic. It may sound hopeless, but for me, I have to hold on to something. I will continue to love. I will continue to nurture and get to know black women for who they truly are as an individual. If you are too scared to run the race, stand on the sidelines and give water to the rest. As for me, whether I am first, in the middle or finish last, this “nice guy” is going to keep running, keep loving, keep nurturing and keep being me. I am far from perfect, I got a lot to work on, and I know I have a lot to offer to a beautiful black woman someday. This love thing is scary and hard as hell to figure out, but I loved enough to know that is worth fighting for, worth running for and worth opening yourself up for. Fellas, we got to do better. Ladies, you do, too. Once we stop pointing fingers at each other and realize that this is not the same world our parents and grandparents grew up in, we can take the steps to do better. Love is a beautiful thing. Black love is an incredible thing. If you give up on love, that is all on you and no one told you to do it. As for me, I can’t give up. Yeah, it sounds stupid, but love is worth looking stupid. Take it from me. It doesn’t take much for me to be excited about loving black women. A beautiful face, lovely hair and a smile that lights up a room is all I need.
Like SoBo, I am all over the place today with this posts. I just don’t have the time and energy to break down the rights and wrongs of men and women in relationships. That horse is dead, buried and has daffodils growing on the plot. Either shut up and do something about it, or just shut up. Ain’t nothing wrong with being scared of love, but bi**hin’ about it to no end ain’t gonna help your cause either. That’s all I got.
and CBC does it again.
>>>”I can’t give up on being that good man for that great woman someday. I can’t give up on my black women and the potential to be happy. It may sound idealistic. It may sound hopeless, but for me, I have to hold on to something. I will continue to love. I will continue to nurture and get to know black women for who they truly are as an individual. If you are too scared to run the race, stand on the sidelines and give water to the rest.”<<<
Nice answer.
I bet that you live at least 3000 miles away from me. *lolz
(That's always the case…)
@cbg
100% truth and honesty
your gonna win, homie!!!
“But, right now I’m more interested in finding out what we can do to get us excited about each other again”
This actually made me laugh. *Snickers* (No Mars) I laugh because we spend copious amounts of time dissecting the ills of the black man, black woman and their interactions with each other (potentially furthering the “great divide” and supporting popular culture’s perception) and are finally seeking restitution. Why now? Aren’t black women supposed to be making lists and checking them twice to find out who’s naughty or nice? Aren’t black men supposed to be ignoring black women because it’s a seller’s market? My guess is that we are beginning to realize that exaggerated lists keep black women lonely and black men really do seek true companionship. My heart bleeds every time black love and relationships are discussed as if we are trying to solve a Rubik’s Cube. We have unnecessarily overcomplicated how we interact with each other and it has spread like a brush fire. To actualize changing a societal perception so great begins with changing individual thought. Not a simple feat. But nonetheless, we should be careful of what we allow to dwell in our psyche. Understand that men and women are inherently dissimilar. Accept that real people aren’t perfect and perfect people aren’t real. The idea of somehow relating to that dissimilar opposite sex and finding ways for our idiosyncrasies to coexist is exciting in itself.
i heart this entire post.
mostly because i like the word idiosyncrasies. sobo/cnotes (mr and mrs sobo? hyphanated? smith?) have stayed winnin today!
@KB
You know what I like about you other than your raw and heartfelt honesty in your posts? You always big up the e-boodom of me and SoBo. : )
@cnotes…
tee hee.
its cuz i want to make sure i plan the first vsb wedding.
im just saying. LOL.
Accept that real people aren’t perfect and perfect people aren’t real.
So can two people be perfect for each other?
@nocommonsense
According to CNotes, Yes. However, my idea of perfection in a relationship is based on a myriad of traits and factors including: love, timing, willingness and compromise.
love, timing, willingness and compromise.
I don’t mean to pry, but could you further explain
@nocommonsense
“I don’t mean to pry, but could you further explain”
Sure. Keeping in mind that “perfect for each other” is not the same as perfect (i.e. flawless, ideal in every way):
“Love” has to be present because it’s the foundation that will act as a reminder of why people are together in the first place. A sense of respect and attachment are subsets of love, but alone will not create a successful relationship. “Willingness” (which is typically fueled by love) to deal with (good and bad) someone besides yourself. “Compromise” during conflict for the sake of maintaining said relationship. “Timing” in the sense of both being ready and available for a relationship. (It is probably arguable, that if one person’s timing is not the same as the others, then they are not “perfect” for each other. However, I included it for situations where someone may not have been ready for a relationship initially, but grew to that place during the relationship). If these components genuinely exists between both parties, then I would say they are perfect for each other.
@ C-NOTES
Thanks for sharing. I new where you were going but I felt the need to pick your brain. (in a good way) But you raised some interesting points in regards to love being a foundation. I don’t think we hate love but i do think alot of us are used to so much chaos in our lives that love scares us into defensive frame of mind. I mean I get it who wants to be hurt. But in trying not to get hurt we put ourselves in a steel box which is defined as “the wall” and we won’t let anyone close enough to fall in love. The thing we are afraid of the most is the same thing that will ultimately save us.
@nocommonsense
“but I felt the need to pick your brain. (in a good way)”
It’s cool because I sometimes have a tendacy to fall into my “news writing” style when I should be more detailed about my thoughts. So, thanks for the nudge!
“But in trying not to get hurt we put ourselves in a steel box which is defined as “the wall” and we won’t let anyone close enough to fall in love. The thing we are afraid of the most is the same thing that will ultimately save us.”
Exactly!
I agree with this 100%. It’s not rocket science. Folks wanna be coupled up/married/starting families…and they will do so with folks who are interesting in doing so. The end. Period.
@Mo-VSS
Yep!
@CNotes
*deep infatuated sigh*
You had me at “This…”
Moving on:
“We have unnecessarily overcomplicated how we interact with each other and it has spread like a brush fire. To actualize changing a societal perception so great begins with changing individual thought.”
Say it again, cause I dedicated an entire comment to this exact same ideology yesterday. CNotes, you are SoMe.
@Mr SoBo
“Say it again, cause I dedicated an entire comment to this exact same ideology yesterday”
(looks at SoBo with admiration) Indeed you did!
“Its the introduction of societal expectations placed upon each sex, that adds the unecessary and convoluted complexities that we have come to know.”
You and me are SoWe. : )
I wasn’t able to read the other posts… In the event it hasn’t already been said… Gotta recognize we won’t be amazed by anyone else until we’re amazed with ourselves… And won’t do that until we’re amazed by life. Cheesy as it sounds, it’s true. A lot of people are obsessed with everything except the natural wonder of living… In some cases even against it -you’ve heard folks brag about hating the outdoors, and kittens… Really? As long as you’re waiting for a Steven Spielberg produced heaven on earth to materialize, you will never be content. No one will satisfy you. I’m in the most amazing relationship I’ve ever read about, much less imagined and the depth and romance comes from how much we appreciate fun, simplicity, and intimacy. We black folk will find the thrill again… Darwin, etc. but (cue after-school special music) it starts with you. By fa now.
Wonderment is good for the soul!
Gotta keep the frosted side to your shredded wheat.
and you came across a like minded/spirited beau, in a right situation to compliment yours, how delightful!!!
“Wonderment is good for the soul”
Ain’t it though? Thanks!
Love never dies a natural death. It dies because we don’t know how to replenish its source. It dies of blindness and errors and betrayals. It dies of illness and wounds; it dies of weariness, of withering, of tarnishing- Anais Nin
I don’t know how this fits but for me it does. Her quote and a few of her others just give me so much food for thought. As did this post.
Why aren’t we excited to date and to learn about a person…because we’ve been damaged and hurt. We learn that insanity is doing the same thing repeatedly expecting different results. Yet isn’t that what dating is? We tweak a thing or two here, we stop for awhile to reevaluate and regroup, but we ultimately do the same thing over and over..just with a new face, new name. Repetition becomes dull and just like sharpening a pencil too many times a person becomes worn down after a while the point is gone.
Where’s the love? Well the love is still around. People still want love and it still exists. Even the most cynical or pessimistic persons have the desire to love and be loved in return. But it starts with self. Somebody upthread said something about positive energy and how people will see it and I started to comment and ask did it have a glow a la Bruce Leroy but really what needs to be clarified is don’t fix yourself for someone else to notice or love or think highly of. Fix you for YOU. Love you for you..without added pressure or thoughts or hopes and wishes that someone..anyone will notice. Its self-love not self-love-cuz-i-really-want-a man/woman-so hopefully-someone-notices-my growth-&-enlightenment
How do we get back excited again?.. Sadly the thrill is gone. We can get it back by trying something different or go back to simpler methods. Instead of using the electric sharpener…go old school and use the silver one attached to the desk, or try using the little handheld one. Even better..how about using a pen?!?! Alot of times people won’t try something new because of fear (I should know because I live in FearTown right now but for other things) but really once you let go and get past the fear of something new or even reflect back on methods that used to work you will find the excitement is still there. The interest is still there, you just have to use a different method to find it.
Now I know I threw alot of analogies in there and some things probably won’t make sense to you, but it made perfect sense to me so I’m alright with that. And since I started with a quote of Anais..I’ll end with another
“Do not seek the because – in love there is no because, no reason, no explanation, no solutions”
Loved that last quote, it truly just is, like it always was.
Give Us..Us Free!! In other words..please let me out of moderation Champ.
“But, right now I’m more interested in finding out what we can do to get us excited about each other again…”
I’ll just say this before massah beckons me once again…
I feel that we all are in complete control of our emotions… and if we want to be excited about relationships, dating… sh!t life in general… we have to make a decision to be excited… dat sh!t don’t just happen because. It doesn’t matter how we breakdown the wants and needs of each other… how we breakdown that lacks and abundances… not even how we discuss resolutions… none of it matters if we aren’t willing to change our outlooks… example:
Take children. Everything excites them… mud, bugs, paper plates, their own fingers. They see something special in everything. And while this may sound convoluted and unrealistic, it’s true. My best days are the days that I decide “eff it… today is going to be great and nothing is going to bother me”… Why can’t we approach meeting people the same way? Sure everyone isn’t going to be someone we’ll want to keep around forever, but everyone has something that makes them great and/or memorable. The more we practice seeking the good things in others… the easier they will be to find.
Stay winning.
I like this. I think it goes back to being 1) grateful- we have so many blessings that we overlook and 2) humble- *maybe you’re not all that.* stop being so mean, LOL.
I love your example too. I was leaving the grocery store the other day and I saw two parents walking with their son. They weren’t talking, the parents were just straight faced. The little boy was just smiling, for no damn reason (and he looked so cute!) I thought to myself “WTF is he so happy about..maybe he’s just happy to be outside doing something.”
“Take children. Everything excites them… mud, bugs, paper plates, their own fingers.”
This right here? This ish right here? Right here this ish? The answer to everything. We let our own baggage taint everything unintentionally… End up overlooking the fact that when you boil it down past all the extras, character flaws can’t hide… It’s easier to recognize and build with a great person when neither of you are able to be distracted by all the makeup and circus tricks.
Kids and puppies man. Unadulterated glee. And yes, we can learn from them about happiness.
It helps too, to keep the thrill going, to hear more about awesome and amazing relationships and people than anything else. Wouldn’t it be hype to look up and see every blog you read praising how incredible the people in their lives are? Or to see a facebook status game where you laud your mate, s/o, friends etc.? I’m out here in LA and I kid you not, am surrounded by nothing but fine, well-educated, great men and women… It’s hard not to be thrilled when that becomes your perception and then reality.
Man this post made me glad to have a bookins. She and (her mama nem) crazy as all get out but she is herself and that leaves me free to be myself. It also makes me less hesitant to show the crazy that resides in the Stank-0 family and its country crazy a special breed.
I remember her eventually telling me she wasn’t even sure she liked me as a person when we first met. Must have been too much Stank-0.
I think we place too many expectations on a date. It’s simply a date not a prelude to sharing names, fluids, a home, or babies.
I also never googled anyone because I didn’t want to know everything beforehand. It also helped that as a man, I have less worries of personal safety.
Black love exists (the weddings, esp in FL) we just overthink, overexpect, and overanalyze.
I think this is such an awesome post. Can’t speak for anyone else, but I definitely feel like this, however…I have NOTHING to contribute as to how to rectify the issue. ??????
I like dating
There’s something fascinating about the whole ‘just hanging out’ and having fun experience, that’s completely f*cked by the expectations of whatever kind of relationship, can, should and probably won’t develop after the dating is over.
My new attitude is: girlfriends are Girl Friends, women I like chillin’, hangin’, runnin’, buildin’, loungin’ and rappin’ with and f*ck buddies are well F*ck Buddies (best if extremely attractive to my dawgs and co-workers, for public display) but mostly for personal entertainment purposes. Trying to combine the two only complicates things with unwanted compromises and the demand for untruths.
I mean truthfully where’s a solid 4.5 like myself going to find a woman with the body of a stripper, the libido and skill set of a porn star, the musical taste of an old jazz head, that’s read Yusef Komunyakaa, Nin or Bukowski, with the financial acumen of , Martha Stewart, culinary skills like B. Smith, not to mention great taste in art and movies?
Trying to find the composite woman is not worth the headache of just allowing everyone to be great at what they’re great at.
That and not getting all weird when they speak to you in the break room the next day.
I believe its because, we oversell ourselves, are not authentic true to ourselves, as a women I find that men just lie too much, like women (maybe some are not) can see through it, its boring, its not necessary, and its pointless, be yourself, that is the most attracive, intriguing, honest and its a great turn on
I don’t have a general malaise about dating anyone, but I do find that
I’m more attracted to women that actually do things that are interesting. If you’re in a sorority or like to go horseback riding with your girlfriends on the weekends or some other predictable type thing like that, then I’ll probably gloss over your resume. If you’re some sort of artist, or speak some sort of non-obvious language, or play a musical instrument, or do something that can save the planet, you’ll probably get that second interview.
In general though, I think we exoticise each other, where we think that the opposite sex can be the perfect Greco-Roman sculpted figures and stereotypical sexualizations. We would rather play the side-piece for someone hot with a mediocre personality than have a nice-looking person who excites us from the inside out.
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I love this post and I’m glad there are other people out there that “get it”. Now if I could just find an attractive VSB somewhere out there…
It seems like dating has become overrated in general, and sex even more so. A good steak dinner, quality time with family and friends, and some other intangibles are WAY more gratifying than sex, the prospect of sex, and the rare possibility of love.
Besides, women call the shots of what they want. If they’re not happy, oh well… some of us men have given up. Most black men have been reduced to cannon fodder for the self-esteem and egos of today’s black women.
This “I’m a commodity” game that men AND women play is tired. Yes, every person contains value. We all are unique and brings something different to the table should we choose to cultivate it. Yet, some of us become obsessed with being the alpha-different. It gets to the point where you’re not even dating a person anymore – you’re dating a persona. People get in Twitter, Facebook, and any other place that hosts real time fuckery, creates this mythical personality, then feel obligated to keep up the facade. I’ve lost count of the times where I’ve been out, and watched people live tweet real life, rather than actually live it. If we’re not giving ourselves the chance to engage with other people and create new experiences, how can we expect to find someone we consider interesting…or be interesting ourselves. I won’t even get into “net-relationships” that start out great, because they’re conducted in controlled, contained environments, which build up an unrealistic ideal of what a relationship actually is.
I’m going off on a tangent, but I think we have truly lost sight of what it means to really engage people, and that is a large portion of our problem.
HERE is my take….I know many posts here yield to the notion that you need to discover yourself and make yourself happy before love find you. I say the opposite could happen as I will attest. I have been single for a long time (2+ years) and I am happier than a clam. Problem is because am so content with the way my life has been the last year, I have reached a level where I don’t see any need for finding love because I have a fulfilling life and any attempt to bring someone in seems like a distraction, so I have not found any depth or excitement or “wowness” in all my recent dates. Henceforth, the notion to concentrate on yourself needs to be taken with a grain of salt because it leads you into a lane that is borderline selfish.
Well Texas is the southwest… Lol.
HERE is my take….I know many posts here yield to the notion that you need to discover yourself and make yourself happy before love find you. I say the opposite could happen as I will attest. I have been single for a long time (2+ years) and I am happier than a clam. Problem is because am so content with the way my life has been the last year, I have reached a level where I don’t see any need for finding love because I have a fulfilling life and any attempt to bring someone in seems like a distraction, so I have not found any depth or excitement or “wowness” in all my recent dates. Henceforth, the notion to concentrate on yourself needs to be taken with a grain of salt because it leads you into a lane that is borderline selfish.
I love the picture of that house…kinda reminds me of the whole topic
of discussion. May seem dilapidated to some, but the overall warmth
is something we should all be able to see. Like the excitement of visiting
grandma’s house or Aunt Lucy’s house down South, or wherever…etc. and
knowing the love that it contained reflected in so many ways on the inside
that made you excited about going there. That’s the kind of LOVE that
relationships should have
Funny no one commented on the picture (well, as far as most of the comments I read).
However, many of the cross-section of comments, unknowingly, reflected what the
picture represents.
…well at least that’s what it reflects to me…