Pop Culture, Race & Politics

When Being Mary Jane Ain’t Good Enough

Yeah boo, I see you. I want to give you a hug.

Yeah boo, I see you. I want to give you a hug.

I will never purport to be a woman. I’ve got one hangin’ and two swangin’ so my commentary in this matter is purely driven by keen observation and a perhaps morbid curiosity usually reserved for stalkers and Beyoncé stans.

But I don’t understand the the hype and hoopla surrounding Being Mary Jane, which began its season last night on the only station bringing us high quality programming from the Black perspective: ESPN.

Wait? It was on BET? My bad.

BET rolled out the red carpet for this. Gabrielle Union was doing rounds everywhere (except possibly her home…low blow, my bad, Gabby). To an outsider, it would seem that this is a big damn deal in the way that Red Tails was supposed to be. So in that sense perhaps its an apt comparison since Red Tails did not love me like XO. But it’s BET’s job to sell a product. So let’s move on from them and get right into the show.

From my perspective, Being Mary Jane is a much more realistic Scandal. As I said on Twitter though, Olivia Pope and Mary Jane Paul need to be each other’s accountability partners. They are bad decision mavens wreaking havoc on common sense with the passion of Jameis Winston during a post game interview. But where Scandal trends towards “no f*cking way” territory, nothing about Being Mary Jane seems that unreasonable. She’s a very successful woman with personal life issues that include romantic, family, and personal relationships. I know quite a few women who have slept with or are sleeping with married men. And even more that make bad decisions when it comes to men. None of this is new or crazy. I know a LOT of women who are very driven and successful in their careers but struggle outside of them.

[Aside: To be fair, I know men are the same, but we're talking about women in the media right now.]

So from that end, I can understand Mary Jane resonating with so many women because they can see themselves in her. Except…ouch. But again, such is life.

It did make me wonder though about the representation of Black women on television. To be clear, I realize that they are just characters and that to my knowledge no woman I know wants to BE Olivia Pope, Mary Jane Paul, etc. In fact, the only woman with a life WORSE than Olivia Pope on television is Fiona Gallagher from Shameless. Seriously, have you seen that show? The fact that Fiona hasn’t murdered anybody is a win in and of itself. I love Shameless.

Are Black women that starved for representation in the face of the “reality” shows out there that these shows which all seem to include Black women chasing married and unavailable men (you can throw in Tyler Perry’s The Have and the Have Nots in there too though I’m not sure anybody’s actually watching that) and pretty much failing on all accounts welcome respites from the ratchetry? In all of these shows, you have women who can’t seem to NOT be better than the paltry options presented before them. I said already that sidepieces are having the best year ever (2013), well this show picks the ball right up from where Scandal left it. Seeing a soft porn shower scene with Gabrielle Union is always going to be a win, but you can’t help but feel like, man, is this what Black womanhood is being whittled down to these days in the public sphere?

I remember many moons ago a slight uproar over the fact that the Taye Diggs show, Kevin Hill, didn’t include him dating enough Black women. He had a parade of women who were mostly white and a few really high yalla women. His main love interest, Leila Arcieri, was light skint as the day is long and it was a thing back then. Well it seems today that Black women are all side-pieces on our own shows but I don’t hear the uproar. Seems like everybody’s a fan. Or at least a majority rule of Black women anyway. It’s okay; judgement free zone, but I am curious about the why.

Back in like 2010, Black women dying single was the big deal. It seemed like all Black women were doomed to empty ovaries and unfulfilled hearts while all Black men ran amuck with racially ambiguous ESL women. Or something. This was proven to be untrue and the narrative (I HATE this term but it fits here…TWSS) got old quickly, almost reaching revolt-like levels. But it seems like, somehow, someway, the normality of sidepieces has entered the consciousness just like that old narrative did. Like, it’s okay. And these shows (reality and scripted) are more or less following in that vein in a life imitating art imitating life type of way. I don’t know if this is for better or worse and trends gon’ trend and eventually fade away anyway so maybe it doesn’t even matter in the long-term, though because I love my Black women, I do notice.

Obviously I like Scandal and will watch Being Mary Jane though it’s fairly boring so far (including the “movie”) and could easily be chopped down into a 30-minute show. I watch most of the ratchet reality shows because I feel like if I don’t, I’ll miss out on the Big Black Conversation About Nothing That Matters. I do think Mona Scott-Young sold her soul to the devil though.

So I ask, what gives? Does this get to be “just entertainment”? Is there a bigger picture here? Am I making a mountain out of a molehill?

Hell, does any of it even matter?

One last word of advice: don’t be Mary Jane.

-VSB P aka THE ARSONIST aka MR. MAKE GOOD CHOICES aka GIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIRL HE A 3

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Damon Young

Panama Jackson is pretty fly for a light guy. He used to ship his frito to Tito in the District, but shipping prices increased so he moved there to save money. When he's not saving humanity with his words or making music with his mouth, you can find him at your mama's mama's house drinking her fine liquors. Most importantly, he believes the children are our future.

  • Rachmo

    1) First

    2) “It seemed like all Black women were doomed to empty ovaries and unfulfilled hearts while all Black men ran amuck with racially ambiguous ESL women”- I had to stop reading here for a good minute or so due to my cackling fit. Seriously that was funny as sh*t

    • http://www.twitter.com/IluminatiNYC Todd

      Remember, there’s no good reason an attractive Black man who isn’t checking for them wouldn’t check for another Black woman. Nope…we’re checking from the most exotic looking chick possible. Now, where’s that half-Puerto Rican half-Pakistani girl I went to high school with…

      • Rachmo

        **throws afro pick** TRAITOR

        • http://www.twitter.com/IluminatiNYC Todd

          ROTFLMAO

  • http://vagabondaesthetics.tumblr.com/ Ricky

    Nothing is ever JUST entertainment because nothing exists solely within a vacuum. Some things deserve more consideration than others though. I DO think it’s interesting that people are fathom all of these extremely accomplished career women in one way or another but are terrible at relationships. Well, it’s not even that they’re terrible at relationships because in shows like Living Single and Girlfriends several and all of the characters at various points where bad at relationships. It’s the fact that they are absolutely god awful in every single imaginable way (outside of chex scenes of course) at relationships which is interesting.

    • Yoles

      as far as i can think most of major female characters both white and black were bad at relationships from designing women to scandal to living single to csi to the good wife and grey’s anatomy … unless the show is about her being a wife and mother then she sucked at all the love arts except the actual physical act itself…

      • Msdebbs

        But I think some of these bad tv relationships mirror real life….

        • kidvideo

          I saw the first season of “Girls”…those chicks got major first world issues.

        • Jay

          Yes. If we’re talking about how “good” real people are, men and women, at relationships, I think the default is bad. Most of us are bad at it. That’s been my experience at least.

    • Cheri Ann

      Geez, don’t you think that’s a little harsh? How is she “god awful” at relationships? She basically saved her friend’s life- busted the door down to come to her rescue, she does her best to be there for her mom, has some conscience in the midst of her cutthroat career (she felt terrible about that news report they did on the old couple in the storm), tries to be there for her niece, and broke down and gave her brother money. She’s not perfect but she’s certainly not “god-awful” at relationships.

      • http://vagabondaesthetics.tumblr.com/ Ricky

        Was speaking solely about romantic relationships.

      • Epsilonicus

        Reading is fundamental.

        • Cheri Ann

          “absolutely god awful in every single imaginable way… at relationships which is interesting.”
          where dafuq do you see the word “romantic” in that sentence or in the entire paragraph? Folks need to be clear.

  • Lashuntrice

    Now that the “black sidepiece” part on every show is pointed out.. ugh.

  • Pseudonym

    “But, it made me realize that Black women are so starved for positive representation that it doesn’t even matter how they’re represented…as long as they’re represented.”

    Unfortunately, not enough time to read the entire article, but this popped up on my fb mini-feed and I just had to agree. That’s the ONLY reason I watch reality shows such as “RHOA,” “Basketball Wives” (Miami and LA), “Married to Medicine” (which was a hot mess), “Love and Hip Hop,” “Braxton Family Values,” and even that dreadful “Preacher Wives” (and I denounced Christianity years ago and have zero stake in the black church- but I watched EVERY WEEK). Makes it even worse that I don’t even have cable, so I go through the trouble of going to the needed websites to find this awful programming. I watch these shows just to see pretty black women dressed nice on television living in cool cities- no lie. Too bad the women on the shows mentioned live dreadful lives in front of the camera. Can we get “A Different World” back on the air?

    • Andrea

      “I watch these shows just to see pretty black women dressed nice on television living in cool cities- no lie.” NO LIE. I gotta try Preacher Wives now. I don’t have cable either, you gotta put me on to the PW link.

    • To’Mas Que Fuego

      I sometimes find myself reading in a room with the TV on turned to one of these shows but on mute. I don’t wanna hear none of the foolishness they’re talking about, but some of them are very nice to look at tho lol

  • Msdebbs

    I’ve been in a few “mary jane” situations before (don’t ask). I like the show but its on BET so…. yea no and how entertaining would Clair Huxtable like character be in 2014???

    • Yoles

      the entire premise of the cosby show would not make for high viewership tv now imo… their perfect marriage and small little wack fights and their super well behaved kids, that got caught every time they did something wrong so they never did it again… they had absolutely no struggle BUT they also didn’t have the pull of oh lets see how the other side lives either.. claire was supposed to be a partner in a law firm but she was home before sundown every day.. never got called in to work, hardly ever brought work home. cliff was a ob/gyn but hardly ever had middle of the night calls, high risk pregnancies, stayed at work late… he was just a sweet doctor that loved jazz who unless pushed by his wife would not eat healthy

      • PaddyfotePrincess

        Lol. Cliff was always sneaking greasy hoagies and orange pop.

      • http://www.twitter.com/IluminatiNYC Todd

        IIRC, they did imply from time to time that Cliff had just came in from a late night at the hospital, but you’re right otherwise.

      • http://vagabondaesthetics.tumblr.com/ Ricky

        It’s a sitcom though. Of course it had certain unrealistic qualities when it came to depicting work. Doctors and nurses definitely don’t act like the cast of Scrubs.

      • afronica

        I tend to agree with you. I think on one level we’re reaping the rise of the anti-hero in pop culture. It’s just finally trickled down so that the show lead wears heels and is black (it only took 15 years).

        I’m ambivalent. I don’t think a retreat to I Love Lucy and The Honeymooners is desirable. But the fact that the only two shows I can think of with a black female lead make those leads so overwhelmingly dysfunctional everywhere but at the office begins to smell like three day old fish. I’m with TNC on this. He’s tired of bumbling (Homer Simpson) or lethally destructive (Don Draper) men dominating pop culture. I’m getting a little tired of their black female mirrors.

        I also wonder if Scandal/BMJ/the black reality shows really are attempts to be a bit more real about black female life and are just failing pretty miserably on that count. Isn’t that par for the course for Hollywood, seemingly no matter who’s writing the script?

    • http://theblackbondblog.wordpress.com/ BlkBond

      Clair Huxtable would still be a standout character capable of entertaining today. Be mindful that the writing staff was the creme de la creme of that time (Gina Prince Bylthewood and Lisa Albert notably). Professionals who took pride in their craft/trade to deliver humor that held no boundaries in a society full of boundaries. This is why ‘clean’ comedy is and always will be the most lucrative. It takes a LOT of talent to come up with jokes/humor that is just enough to everyone to grasp (various ages, races, gender, religion, etc), yet tame enough not to offend. Today, people want “scandalous” shock inducing topics that deliver a ‘quick’ emotional response rather than thought provoking dialogue, discussion, and self-assessment.

      Bond.

      • http://stanoffewwords.wordpress.com/ Tristan

        10 years from noe no one will remember scandal or love and hip hop….ppl barely watch refund now, its all ratchet shock value that is cool to talk about on social media as it happens but there’s nothing timeless abkut it

      • BreezyX2

        I am sorry but your signature “Bond” is KILLING ME!!!! I just keeping seeing Daniel Craig :)

      • To’Mas Que Fuego

        Tell the truth and shame the devil! It’s cheap and pathetic to use shock value humor and messiness to get people’s attention. That’s why it gets no respect or attention from me. It’s WORSE than the current pop/rap music because at least that music is designed to be danced to in a club (so many people admit to not listening to the words anyway). These shows are designed to normalize sh*tty ratchet behavior and rationalize being irrational. But as always, when you point it out the response is the same “It’s just entertainment”

  • PaddyfotePrincess

    Sigh. I’m on season 3 of Breaking Bad. I think I’ll stick with that for a minute. The wack scripted shows and endless supply of fake reality shows is played out.

    • Yoles

      I’m on season 3 of sons of anarchy.. I’m sticking to lusting after outlaw dirty white men with violent streaks for now

      • PaddyfotePrincess

        Sons of Anarchy is next on the list.

      • http://stanoffewwords.wordpress.com/ Tristan

        Just got to season 4

        • http://trulytafakari.com/ dtafakari

          I quit SOA when they killed ________ off. I couldn’t hang anymore.

          • Kozy

            thug tears. all of them. I was sick.

          • Yoles

            oh lord dara… i already was upset about HS… now I’m on distraught tenterhooks…

      • http://trulytafakari.com/ dtafakari

        honey, Jax?! oohwee.

    • Msdebbs

      I’m on the last 2 episodes of Dexter and loving it but I do enjoy rachet tv occasionally

      • PaddyfotePrincess

        I’ve heard good things about Dexter.

        I enjoy ratchet tv in small doses. It seems as if the same themes/characters/ratchets/
        foolishness are recycled and rehashed on every show.

      • kidvideo

        I finished the last episode of Dexter last nite…it was no Breaking Bad ending…that’s all i’ll say about that.

        • http://TheNewEve.com/ Bunni

          i cried real tears when Dexter ended tho…I’ve been a huge fan since it first started in 2006

        • http://stanoffewwords.wordpress.com/ Tristan

          Dude walked out the hospital with a body to his boat docked at the hospital….ninja what

      • http://TheNewEve.com/ Bunni

        Dexter gets alllll my love

      • Epsilonicus

        Dexter has nothing on Breaking Bad and I love Dexter.

    • http://TheNewEve.com/ Bunni

      I binge watched breaking bad in 3wks just so I could watch the series finale….that is a GREAT show.

      • Andrea

        I did that too. I don’t even know how I humanly made that possible. All I know is I went from never having heard of it….to being all caught up for the last two episodes. Did Giancarlo win an Emmy? If not…that brother was robbed!

        • SuperStrings

          Yeah he was good in that. He’s good in Revolution too.

          • Freebird

            Revolution

            Does this still come on? I liked it but lost the time slot.

            • SuperStrings

              It does, but I’m not current on it since I’ve been catching it on Netflix.

    • BreezyX2

      Breaking Bad is everything!!!! Carry on :)

      • Jay

        Greatest show in television history… no hyperbole.

        • BreezyX2

          ABSOLUTELY!!!!

    • Epsilonicus

      You are making the right choice. Breaking Bad is life.

  • Cheri Ann

    1) “Well it seems today that Black women are all side-pieces on our own shows but I don’t hear the uproar.”

    There’s no uproar (yet) because we like to have a chance to be the center of attention for an hour on tv. We know she’s more than just a side-piece- she’s a daughter of a sick woman, the breadwinner of her entire family, a career woman, etc. So to just say she’s a side-piece, isn’t exactly fair. Also, to be fair, she cut dude off the moment she found out. He stalked her and she had a weak moment in the shower. She’s human. She’s flawed. Also, we are more trusting of the shows because their creators are Black women- that’s a biggie. We feel even more connected to the character because she sprang forth from the imagination of one of us.

    2) “but you can’t help but feel like, man, is this what Black womanhood is being whittled down to these days in the public sphere?”

    As a woman, for me the question is “Is this all that (Black) men have to offer me at this stage in my dating life?”

    3) “So I ask, what gives? Does this get to be “just entertainment”? Is there a bigger picture here?”

    I believe the bigger picture is that Black women feel like we’re held to an unspoken but unreasonably higher standard than our counterparts when it comes to dating and it leaves many of us really confused. All jokes aside, it’s not really funny because it screws with self-worth and views on life. The suicide attempt of her friend (who I believe is the doctor that did her niece’s ultrasound-so another successful single Black woman) that Mary Jane concluded was because of her loneliness was like a warning sign. (and notice in that scene when she’s recounting that situation to David, how he made light of it and quickly moved on). When you play by all the rules, what else are you really supposed to do? There’s only so much self-reflecting and traveling one can do. So, I’m sure giving in to a good screw with the married man seemed like a better option than od’ing on sleeping pills like her friend did. I’m just saying.

    I think the missing piece in this puzzle about the black single woman’s experience is the psyche/perspective of black single men. An honest analysis. That is what’s not being scrutinized as closely in mainstream film. Their stories and perspectives are missing. For example, what every woman like Mary Jane wants to know is what really goes on in the mind of a man like David, Mary Jane’s ex? She obviously wants him, they like each other’s company, and she is willing to make a space for him, she’s got her sh*t together for the most part, so what gives? Why the games at his age? Is there a fear of commitment? What does that even mean? Is it about him looking for The One? Does a guy like him even know what he’s looking for? Hopefully, we’ll get a show with a Black single male as the center and we can finally get a more complete picture.

    • http://theblackbondblog.wordpress.com/ BlkBond

      Addressing numerically:

      1. Word?!? Damn fam…..Nas told me it was written. Number ten.

      2. Please, elaborate in regard to what you perceive to be offered in comparison/contrast to what you want.

      3.”I think the missing piece in this puzzle about the black single woman’s
      experience is the psyche/perspective of black single men. An honest
      analysis. That is what’s not being scrutinized as closely in mainstream
      film. Their stories and perspectives are missing.”

      To be very candid: People don’t give a fuck about what Black Men think. Seriously. Not even other Black Men. Some Black men do, but most people involved in the depiction of Black Men (including media, film, music, art, etc.) do not. Anywhere there is an opportunity to succeed on the back of a Black Man or as a result of being a Black Man, people will seek it, but integrity be damned.

      Bond.

      • http://www.twitter.com/IluminatiNYC Todd

        Word. Apparently, once Black men hit a certain age and/or status in life, we’re supposed to marry the first woman who looks at us, no matter what we actually want or need. And heaven forbid we say no. We’re Destroying The Black Family ™.

      • Freebird

        “People don’t give a fuck about what Black Men think. Seriously. Not even other Black Men. Some Black men do, but most people involved in the depiction of Black Men (including media, film, music, art, etc.) do not.”

        yuuuuuup.

      • afronica

        “People don’t give a fuck about what Black Men think. Seriously.”
        This I can see.

        “Not even other Black Men.”
        Can you give me more on this part? I don’t understand.

        • http://theblackbondblog.wordpress.com/ BlkBond

          Sure:

          Media: Numerous examples where Black Men bash other brothers for discussing issues personal to them (Blogs-particularly those written by Black Men, which is ironic because they themselves are Black Men. But then the feminists with all the plugs for writing jobs wouldn’t be calling the for assignments and panels. long live capitalism I guess)upbringing (Barry O), dating/ marriage choices (Any brother married to a non-Black Woman), sexuality or discussion thereof (feminists, caucasians, lgbt communities, etc).

          Et Cetera…Et Cetera.

          Film: Lee Daniels (reigning coon savant) and Tyler Perry as of late–I can give you works going back as far as you need…

          Art: Aaron Douglas’ politically charged art is nowhere near the MOMA or any other national museums (I point this out because some museums are funded in part by govt, thus all citizens have a stake I their culture and art being presented) and Ernie Barnes, Henry Tanner, James Van Der Zee, etc have all been marginalized as well for their depiction of Black life/representation as well. Their are Black members of these organizations that use this as a way to impress people/social status rather than preserve and promote the art and the artists (Black Men).

          Sports: Black Journalist and commentators/former players routinely criticize, dissect, over analyze, etc other Black athletes, more so than other athletes.

          That’s the gist. I can give you specific examples if you like though…

          Bond.

          • afronica

            Thanks.

      • Cheri Ann

        Lol, Can I just point out that you said “People don’t give a fuck about what Black Men think”-which isn’t necessarily fact, it’s your experience, it’s valid and agree with you- you even cursed, but and no one jumped down your throat and called you “irrational, emotional, reckless, an ass” or any other ridiculous name for standing firm in your beliefs? You speak with authority, you get voted up. I do it. and I got goons like Rachmo and such coming for me in these streets.

        • BlkBond

          I didn’t curse at anyone or direct profanity towards anyone, rather I used to word to emphasize the strength of the point I was trying to make (People not caring about Black Men).

          The statement was rooted in fact- which means it’s true. It’s the truth for a lot of brothers who may not be able to articulate this the way I do. People actually do care about what I think (that’s another discussion), but collectively, and I provided examples to Afronica, they do not care.

          Your issues were addressed, you did not offer any insight or coherent counterpoint/rebuttal to explain why you felt the way you did. Rather, you simply avoided the questions/statements made (which were in response to your own statements) and began to use red herrings (the tone of the other person, 2-word answers which shows defensive response, etc.) when dealing with the people who responded to you. You can’t ask questions/make statements in an open forum and not expect a response. Further, the people responding are not incompetent or illogical (for the most part). You’re deflections are seen as insults to their intelligence, because they know better and you do to.

          Bond.

    • http://www.twitter.com/IluminatiNYC Todd

      With your #3, I think you’re contradicting yourself. Either a standard is unspoken or it isn’t. That you would compare and constant what the show said about the sister with the lack of info on the brother’s part says that the “unspoken standard” isn’t one. IMHO, I think that much as the thoughts of actual Black women are ignored by many Black men when it comes to hump, to obvious horrible effects, the thoughts of actual Black men are ignored by Black women when it comes to committed relationships. While the results aren’t as dramatic as what I mentioned when it comes to $ex, it’s very real and powerful.

    • Andrea

      Okay. I just found a new show to watch.

    • SuperStrings

      “As a woman, for me the question is ‘Is this all that (Black) men have to offer me at this stage in my dating life?’”
      Only if you believe it.

      “So, I’m sure giving in to a good screw with the married man seemed like a better option than od’ing on sleeping pills like her friend did.”
      This is a false dichotomy. As a matter of fact, men use this to their advantage in these scenarios all the time. It’s why the married man has no shortage of mistresses.

      “She obviously wants him, they like each other’s company, and she is willing to make a space for him, she’s got her sh*t together for the most part, so what gives? Why the games at his age? Is there a fear of commitment? What does that even mean? Is it about him looking for The One? Does a guy like him even know what he’s looking for?”

      All of these questions are irrelevant and really only serve to torture the individual asking. In the end it’s always as simple as “someone wants to be with you or they don’t.” Sometimes we just have to accept that the other person just doesn’t want to be with us. Take it on the chin, dust yourself off, and get back in the game better than before.

      • Cheri Ann

        “All of these questions are irrelevant…”

        Irrelevant on what grounds? Who gets to determine that? I’m merely offering my perspective as a woman and you’re deeming it “irrelevant”? That was extremely patronizing and condescending.

        “In the end it’s always as simple as “someone wants to be with you or they don’t.”
        Right, we all know if it were that simple, the Mary Janes would have nothing to stress about. But dating has rarely been that clear cut, at least in the beginning stages. David allowed her to believe there was a possibility he wanted to be with her (“I’ve been calling you.” “I miss you”…turned into “I got two tickets to a game”- to which she inquired further to give him the chance to be transparent and he chose to lead her on, again.)
        Also, by that logic, then the married man wants to be with Mary Jane. Damn near stalking her, saying “I love you”, looking deep into her eyes…etc. But we know his married status makes his desire to be with her slightly inconvenient.

        “This is a false dichotomy. As a matter of fact, men use this to their advantage in these scenarios all the time. It’s why the married man has no shortage of mistresses.”

        This simply underscores my point. Why, in the pursuit of a partner are men feeling that it is ok to use these scenarios to their advantage? How can a man tell a woman he’s only known for a few months that he loves her knowing the whole time he’s married? How does a man sleep at night carrying that kind of burden? Is he a psychopath (or whatever mental condition it is that allows a person to act deceitfully without a twinge of guilt for they have zero conscience?)

        “Take it on the chin, dust yourself off, and get back in the game better than before.”

        Ummm, ok. Thanks but no thanks. Spare me the simple cliches.

        I think much of what you’re offering is exactly why we are not able to get the bigger picture of dating because you’re dodging the questions and placing the burden back on women to figure men out constantly.

        • http://www.twitter.com/IluminatiNYC Todd

          I think you’re projecting a woman’s uncertainties into a man’s brain. He may be that uncertain, or he may just want to offer a woman nothing but hard D and bubble gum for his own reasons. Granted, a lot of men don’t want to be “the bad guy”, so they don’t man up and say what they really feel. Still, regardless of what they say, their actions will make their intentions clear. Either they want you in your life, or they don’t, and they have a right to their own feelings. That’s why your questions are irrelevant.

          • Cheri Ann

            Again, this is extremely conflicting and let’s men off the hook, again.

            “so they don’t man up and say what they really feel.”

            It’s not a woman’s responsibility to figure a man out. It’s his responsibility. A woman like Mary Jane is constantly thinking and analyzing her steps. She doesn’t just do things for the sake of doing them. She gave all the men an opportunity to be honest and forthright and nothing came of it. This is why I say the other side-an honest analysis-needs to be heard.

            ” That’s why your questions are irrelevant.”

            I give you the dignity of actually answering your questions without placing a value on it. The mere fact that I’m posing these questions makes them relevant. Point. Blank. Period.

            “Still, regardless of what they say, their actions will make their intentions clear”

            Again, that isn’t entirely true. The married guys’ actions-um, hello stalking her, could be interpreted as an intention to pursue her and be with her. Also, again with David and the two tickets- a woman like MJ knows the whole actions speak louder than words bit-which is why she inquired further so that she could get to his intentions. Again, she was met with lying or beating around the bush- much like what is happening in this comments section.

            • http://www.twitter.com/IluminatiNYC Todd

              I think we’re agreeing more than you think. You are right that it is not a woman’s responsibility to figure a man out. That’s why he should just say it. On the flip side, I have been involved in situations and seen with my own eyes a man tell a woman his truth…and a woman try to pretend he didn’t say what he said. Is a dude dead wrong for avoiding the truth for fear of that happening? Abso-f*cking-lutely! But let’s not pretend it doesn’t happen.

              I said your questions are irrelevant because a man (or any adult for that matter) has a right to their own feelings for their own reasons. They can’t do whatever they want as a result, but they have a right to feel a certain way. Going to your specific example, if dude is beating around the bush when asked a specific question, a woman should realize that a) the man doesn’t want to answer them directly and b) make their decision based on that. If anyone stays in a romantic relationship after getting thrown the okey-doke, they’re responsible for what happens after that. (And notice, I didn’t mention gender. This goes all ways for all times.)

              • Cheri Ann

                “Is a dude dead wrong for avoiding the truth for fear of that happening?”

                Yes. Yes he is. Like dudes are always telling women to stop blaming him for the mistakes from the last dude, I’m offering that advice to men. Stop being motivated by fear, and stop bringing your emotional issues from the last relationship into the next.

                • http://www.twitter.com/IluminatiNYC Todd

                  I agree with every word you said wholeheartedly. From your mouth to God’s ear.

        • http://missrosen.wordpress.com/ esa

          ~ placing the burden back on women to figure men out constantly.

          i have discovered this is the case. as a woman who loves men, i am responsible for understanding not just men in general, but one man in specificity, and most importantly, consistently. i have to show up every day with an open mind and a humble heart. i dont find it to be a burden tho. i find it to be a challenge and a joy ~*~

          • Cheri Ann

            you’re in a relationship, that’s different. I’m talking about men you’re still trying to learn. Then yes, it’s an unfair burden.

            • Kozy

              unfair? what would you have in it’s place? has the task of “learning” a person you’re interested in/pursuing become one-sided?

              • Cheri Ann

                What? That doesn’t even make sense.

                • Kozy

                  let me elaborate and rephrase:

                  you stated that because some men don’t have/display the desired level of transparency or straightforwardness when dealing with men, the burden of “figuring them out” then becomes the task of said woman.

                  I get it. seriously, I do.

                  but, in return, my question was as follows: isn’t the “figuring out” that you reference above usually a two-sided affair? Is the man involved not equally responsible for making determinations as to what he thinks the woman in question is or isn’t about?

                  Now, if you’re only concerned with cases like the example presented in the show, then I’ll kindly retract all of my questions. Because all men are not that duplicitous and all women are not as upstanding and principled as Gabby’s character.

                  • http://trulytafakari.com/ dtafakari

                    “…all women are not as upstanding and principled as Gabby’s character.”

                    She of the sperm-stealing ilk? HA!

                    • Kozy

                      ah. that happened on the show? well, then….

            • http://missrosen.wordpress.com/ esa

              i respectfully disagree. i had this same experience before i was in a relationship. and it was far more unpleasant because it triggered my insecurities. and i had to confront them, alone, just me. couldnt pass them off on him. the only true burden i have ever experienced with men is the burden of the unresolved conflicts within me.

              • Rachmo

                So imma let you and @disqus_2gDjLLw4Ri:disqus just take this bc ya’ll are all up in my head right now

              • Cheri Ann

                Well there it is ladies…you are a burden to yourselves. Got it, thank you for that Esa. Here I was actually liking myself when all I was doing was becoming my own burden. Now that that’s been cleared up…

                • Rachmo

                  I am cosigning with @disqus_ZiXVPIulwQ:disqus on this 100% She seems to be saying was that your perception affects your reality. Brighter perception, brighter reality.

                  • Cheri Ann

                    Did you miss the “the only burden i have ever experienced with men is the burden of me.”

                    That’s a lot more than just saying your perception affects your reality.

                    • Rachmo

                      No I didn’t miss it. She made a lot of sense. When it came to dating I spent a lot of time getting in my own way and once I stopped doing that it became more fun and I met better people. So yeah your perception does affect your reality.

                  • http://missrosen.wordpress.com/ esa

                    i am not sure i am saying only that perception equals reality. i think, more accurately, i am stating that the source of My conflicts is Me. maybe that is the same thing. i’m not sure.

                    • Rachmo

                      Whoops misread. Either way I still agree with you about taking responsibility for your own dating life. Bc the one ingredient present in all my failed relationships? Was moi.

                • http://missrosen.wordpress.com/ esa

                  pardon me. at no point did i speak of anyone but myself. i never claim to speak for other women. that you hear what you want to hear does not mean that is what is being said.

            • To’Mas Que Fuego

              You don’t stop learning about men or your man when you’re in a relationship. If you do, you probably won’t be in a relationship long.

              • Rachmo

                This is a good point. Relationships are so different once you get out of the honeymoon stage and those masks (or gloves) come off.

                • To’Mas Que Fuego

                  Eggggzactly. There’s levels to this sh*t. Many…but yeah people need a lot of time to show you their full humanity. It’s always way less glamorous and smile-inducing. I didn’t realize how much I had my ex on a pedestal based on my own assumptions that I wanted to be true. Learning about the other person also teaches you more about yourself though. That’s what a lot of folks REALLY aint ready for. Especially when they make you question your perception and how “realistic” your own expectations are from a lover in the first place.You learn that your perspective is nothing more or less than that…you decide whether you want to be ride or die for a perspective and why…

                  Relationships also teach you everything you need to know about yourself and how you go about conducting conflict resolution. Hope yall pay attention in that class.

                  • http://missrosen.wordpress.com/ esa

                    ~ Learning about the other person also teaches you more about yourself though.

                    thas why God invented love and chex ~*~

                    • To’Mas Que Fuego

                      See, you “get it”. It’s not like that surprises me tho. Nature got the answers (unlike Sway).

                  • Rachmo

                    “Conflict resolution”- I hate that sh*t but it is so necessary. Huge shocker here but I’d really prefer it if I just got my own way.

                    • http://missrosen.wordpress.com/ esa

                      i am kinda learning to love it. it’s soo uncomfortable to experience, but once it is done, it’s an incredible weight lifted and i feel lighter than before ..

          • Freebird

            Wow. Esa. That really is the secrete…and its not really a secrete.

            • To’Mas Que Fuego

              Not a secret at all. It’s what would be common sense in an ideal world. Too bad most so many people don’t want to make an ideal world for themselves.

          • Epsilonicus

            “i have discovered this is the case. as a woman who loves men, i am responsible for understanding not just men in general, but one man in specificity, and most importantly, consistently. i have to show up every day with an open mind and a humble heart. i dont find it to be a burden tho. i find it to be a challenge and a joy ”

            And that is why my wife is winning.

      • Rachmo

        “As a woman, for me the question is ‘Is this all that (Black) men have to offer me at this stage in my dating life?’”
        Only if you believe it- YOU SMARTA$$ MOTHERFUCKER! I just kicked down chairs in my cubicle at that sentence

      • h.h.h.

        “As a woman, for me the question is ‘Is this all that (Black) men have to offer me at this stage in my dating life?’”Only if you believe it.

        #got-em

      • Cheri Ann

        “Only if you believe it.”

        Yeah, the mere fact that you can smugly and self-righteously pose that as the solution just gave it away who has the upper hand in this dating “game”. Men.

        I’ve learned that the group holding most of the power gets to drop that “only if you believe it” b.s to avoid facing any & all responsibility to what is happening right in front of them. The dating playing field is clearly hella unequal.

        Because really, this is similar logic to when white folks want to tell you it’s a post-racial society and racism is mostly in your imagination. “It’s only racist if you believe it’s racist/rise above the experience/you have to try harder/you’re just insecure/let’s change the Voting Rights Act because racism doesn’t really happen anymore outside of the spaces of your imagination/

        You must be enjoying the view on that high horse of yours. How’s the air up there?

        • Cheri Ann

          And yes I went there with the race comparison.

        • http://www.twitter.com/IluminatiNYC Todd

          The thing is at different steps of the mating game, different groups have power, When it comes to the initial getting of drawers, women have the power. When it comes to commitment, men do. The problem within heterosexual relationships is that people are too focused on their issues to think of the bigger picture.

          • Cheri Ann

            I actually don’t agree that women have all the power. Can you explain that one? I hear that a lot and I really don’t see how that is true…

            • http://www.twitter.com/IluminatiNYC Todd

              OK, let me spell out what men go through and what women go through in dating. The overarching framework in this is that men have to struggle to get laid, but once they can do so, they can pretty much marry who they choose. On the flip side, the vast majority of women get some form of male attention, and can date readily, but it’s much harder for them to get a man to commit.

              From a guy’s perspective, he’s struggling and striving just to get a date, let alone to second base, while he’s seeing his female friends, family members and colleagues date on the reg. He’s getting shot down for this and that, and working it out with his, um, anthology of Sarah Mirabelli independent films to release some tension, perhaps with some Vaseline involved. (For the record, Pinky does use her government name on her YouTube account, so it’s OK for me to use it.) He thinks that all these women he knows are doing alright, since they are clearly dating on a regular basis, and he goes through droughts on a regular basis. Yeah, homegirls are complaining about not getting married, but at least they’re in the game, unlike him. He would like to have back to back months with dates. He’d love to be that dude with girlies on the D like a human shish kebob, but from his perspective, his one boy who got it like that is just a lucky dude.

              From the girl’s perspective, all the dudes she deals with are either lames, desperate to hit, or noncommittal as f*ck. None of these dudes she’s dealing that she’s really interested in are trying to give her the ring, giving her all these mealy-mouthed excuses. However, the last four dudes she dealt with ended up engaged within a year. From her perspective, these dudes are mercurial, and they can just up and get married whenever they want. Of course, she doesn’t notice that her cousin ain’t got it like that, but from her perspective, all he has to do is make the effort and put the pr0n down. She also didn’t know that the dudes she was with had a cold streak that would make Minneapolis in February seem balmy before finally convincing her and getting their ticket punched, because from her perspective, they were always “good guys”.

              • http://trulytafakari.com/ dtafakari

                That was a really good look at both perspectives, Todd. I agree. Each side wants to see themselves as the bottom of the totem, when neither gender is powerless in relationships.

              • Cheri Ann

                I still don’t see where the power women supposedly has comes in? I suppose it depends upon one’s definition of power but I’m not entirely sure being able to fu*k is where we women see as the source of our power. That’s a dude’s perspective, which once again is presented as the fact of the matter. Most of what you mention in the second paragraph is valid but at the end of the day it’s all in dudes’ head. He’s making up a story and dialogue in his head and proceeding accordingly without having actually verified anything he’s thinking/assuming. That alone doesn’t necessarily mean women have the power. If women really had all the power, there wouldn’t be shows like Mary Jane. and we wouldn’t be watching them. Women have some power, yes, but it’s a bit exaggerated. I think men have just as much power than they realize and are afraid to admit.

                • http://missrosen.wordpress.com/ esa

                  ~ I still don’t see where the power women supposedly has comes in?

                  power is a state of mind. if one is not able to access it, that is a comment on the way one used their mind to disempower their life.

                  check out Epictetus: The Art of Living if you are interested in becoming powerful.

                  • Cheri Ann

                    but if it’s a state of mind then it’s not fair to say then that “woman hold all the power”. That’s merely an opinion, then. Right?

                • http://theblackbondblog.wordpress.com/ BlkBond

                  Women have the power. Truth is both genders can have anyone they want.

                  To be sold not told though.

                  Bond.

                • http://www.twitter.com/IluminatiNYC Todd

                  My point is depending on your perspective, no one really has power, and a lot of the drama is in people’s head. The fact that you can’t see that says a lot about you.

                  • Cheri Ann

                    Lol, But see the dudes present everything like it’s fact, no one says anything or villainizes you for it. I counter with my perspective and to highlight that much of the way men see a situation is simply their perspective, that is unfairly presented as a black and white truth, a gospel of sorts, but I’m the asshole for it and get called all kinds of ridiculous names (see: ass, dingbat, emotional, irrational, bitter, scorned) -not necessarily deemed by you but some other internet goons up in here-…and now you’re basically agreeing with me that it is in fact “depending on your perspective”? That is some crazy double standard mess I ain’t seen in a minute.

                    On a lighter note…Heeeeeey fellow Rutgers Alum!!

              • To’Mas Que Fuego

                Todd got 9 likes and NO downvotes?!?! That legit made me smile and laugh #atthesamed*mntime. I guess I gotta read this long @ss comment now lol

                #breazygetthegifsready #heearnedit

                Edit: Well done homeskillet. U even found a way to use “mercurial” ( possibly in the top 10 favorite words of mine) so color me impressed.

                It’s called a conflict of interest people. The best way to “win” at dating is to specialize in finding situations that aren’t conflicts of interest. In real estate they call them “win win” situations. The best way to find more of them would be to become the best possible person you can be. Finding out what the type of people you would want to build with (or boink if you’re a man) find most attractive or worthy of respect/awe. Improve your own value as a person and lose your expectations. Learn to be the person you want to be and enjoy your life. Choose happiness, don’t search for it.

            • http://missrosen.wordpress.com/ esa

              i believe women have all the power they allow themselves, and can successfully master.

        • Rachmo

          Ma’am you seem a bit on a high horse yourself. You seem to be placing all blame solely on men. Also trying to tie this to racism is reaching.

          • Cheri Ann

            “You seem to be placing all blame solely on men. ”
            How? Where are you getting that? That’s reaching.

            The logic of the one with the most status is very similar, that’s the comparison so it’s not reaching. The rules are pretty much the same. How you don’t see any connection strikes me as intentionally obtuse.

            • Rachmo

              Um everywhere through your comments you’re blaming men and trying to oversimplify dating. It makes no sense. Not everyone will be feeling you just like not everyone will be feeling me and we in turn will not be feeling every man. There are so many factors like timing and compatibility that are out of our control. Dating power is not solely given to men, it is given to whomever has the power. If it was only given to men there would be no single lesbians I’d think (a joke). so I’ll assume you don’t read VSB enough bc there are many good men on here that are single and not thrilled with it. They would LOVE a nice girl but can’t find the one for them bc sometimes dating sucks.

              Further, my logic is the EXACT same as SS and I’m a woman. So am I privileged? Or am I not bc I’m a woman? Your logic just doesn’t add up.

              • Cheri Ann

                “everywhere through your comments you’re blaming men”

                You’re joking, right?

                “Not everyone will be feeling you just like not everyone will be feeling me and we in turn will not be feeling every man. There are so many factors like timing and compatibility that are out of our control.”
                Umm, ok. I think that goes without saying and we

                “so I’ll assume you don’t read VSB enough bc there are many good men on here that are single and not thrilled with it. ”
                Been reading for a few years. A fan on their fb page, too. Assumptions are the devil.

                I’m offering a different perspective and you’re flipping out is what’s basically happening here.

                • Rachmo

                  Where did I flip out?

                  • Cheri Ann

                    Everywhere through your comments you’re flipping out.. (phrasing sound familiar?)

                    • Rachmo

                      Um you called SS smug and self righteous. I called you no names. So where was the flip out?

              • afronica

                “… there are many good men on here that are single…” I’ll agree with this.

                “…and not thrilled with it.” Are we sure on that? I count only one guy who regularly comments here who seems not so happy to be single. The rest of the guys seems ambivalent about becoming un-single at best. I’m only talking about the guys here who are not in a relationship.

                This was just something I thought I’ve noticed. Carry on.

                • Rachmo

                  I had four that I was thinking of in particular that have expressed displeasure with the singleness. Not in a desperate way just a “GAH dating sucks and I just want a normal person to be with” way. But yeah more are like meh whatevs.

                • To’Mas Que Fuego

                  “I count only one guy who regularly comments here who seems not so happy to be single. ”

                  Ahem. Make that two. I’m unhappy being single. I prefer to be triple or quadruple, but I can only speak for myself.

                  “If you gone do it den. Do it big den!”
                  ~Socrates

                  • afronica

                    I think my low count may stem from my restrictive definitions. I’m thinking un-single=in an exclusive relationship. That’s why I only came up with one guy. Not saying that you just want a lot of…options, but saying that you just want a lot of options. J/k (but not really). Lol!

            • Andrea

              Am I the only one who hears the word obtuse and immediately thinks of Shawshank Redemption and that Family Guy episode?

              • Rachmo

                Haha can you expand on that? I’ve seen both but can’t tie it. **sits Indian style and eats graham crackers**

                • Andrea

                  oops replied to myself

                  • Rachmo

                    Hahaha I saw it. Love that show

              • Andrea
            • Shamira

              Are you telling me that shiftless negroes/ poor romantic situations are effecting your daily livelihood to that same level of institutionalized racism? Because I don’t know that life. Please expound.

              • Cheri Ann

                cute but that’s not what I said.

                • Shamira

                  So then expound, please :-)

                • Shamira

                  And since you seem to have deleted what you said to me earlier (or it got eaten up by the disqus monster), I’ll just put my response here…

                  “You know, instead of being snarky, you could actually engage in the discussion so we could get somewhere. But whatever floats your boat, I guess.

                  Did I say that I don’t understand romantic issues? What I said was whats the point in concerning myself with the negroes who don’t check for me the way I want them to? Like, what is it? They’re not checking for me. Does finding out why they don’t give me any solace? Does finding out why they want to fuq me but not commit give me peace of mind in any way? Like how does that help you accomplish your end goal? (which I’m presuming is to get a man to love and respect you the way that you deserve, although I wont speak for you).

                  In my experience, pulling my hair out over why men did whatever the fuq they did gets you nowhere.

                  But you want to act like an azz and talk down to people who have counterpoints. Okay boo boo.”

                  • Rachmo
                    • Cheri Ann

                      pause, it wasn’t that deep.

                  • Cheri Ann

                    “What I said was whats the point in concerning myself with the negroes who don’t check for me the way I want them to?”

                    What are you even talking about? When did I say you should do that? What does that have to do with what I said?

                    “But you want to act like an azz”

                    Umm, fall all the way back…

                    • Shamira

                      “She obviously wants him, they like each other’s company, and she is willing to make a space for him, she’s got her sh*t together for the most part, so what gives? Why the games at his age? Is there a fear of commitment? What does that even mean? Is it about him looking for The One? Does a guy like him even know what he’s looking for? ”

                      I find it funny that you said that I didn’t understand your grammatically correct points, but yet….

            • To’Mas Que Fuego

              “”You seem to be placing all blame solely on men. ”
              How? Where are you getting that? ”

              Probably from statements like the following two:

              1)”Yeah, the mere fact that you can smugly and self-righteously pose that as the solution just gave it away who has the upper hand in this dating “game”. Men.”

              2)”I’ve learned that the group holding most of the power gets to drop that “only if you believe it” b.s to avoid facing any & all responsibility to what is happening right in front of them. The dating playing field is clearly hella unequal.”

              You poor helpless soul. Men are such monsters aren’t we?

              • Rachmo

                Ah it seems my reading comprehension was not off. Big ups to the Bmore school system.

                • Epsilonicus

                  Baltimore has always been the city that reads…

                  • Rachmo

                    BOL

              • Cheri Ann

                Did I say monsters? You’re putting words in my mouth

                “upper hand” does not equate to sole responsibility.

                • To’Mas Que Fuego

                  Lol, I didn’t say you said it, I was just asking.

                  I could just as easily make an argument about how women have the upper hand, but that wouldn’t make me right (more importantly it would be a self-defeating stance to take, and I’m not bout that life). So since I’m sure you’ve explained somewhere on this thread already, can you point me to the section where you explained how we have the upper hand? Then go ask HHH or Joel who they think has the upper hand in dating (if they were forced to choose that is).

            • Val

              Isn’t “intentionally obtuse” like a double negative or something?

        • http://tripsixes.com/ Trip

          You want to know who’s winning the dating game? The person who has their mind right. We are our own worst enemy, more specifically our mind is.

          Look beyond the perceived sting of the words. I have to fight myself daily in order to keep my perspective clear. It’s an ongoing battle for all of us.

          • Cheri Ann

            “It’s an ongoing battle for all of us.”

            No argument there.

          • http://missrosen.wordpress.com/ esa

            suggested edit ::

            ~ You want to know who’s winning the game of life? The person who has their mind right.

          • afronica

            *church wave*

        • Joel

          People (sometimes) create their own perceived shortages in the dating game in their own minds. I myself am guilty of this at times.

        • Shamira

          Well who shat in your Honey Nut Cheerious today? Dayum.

          I’m really confused as to your issue here. I do agree that black men (and men in general) get a LOT of leeway when it come to being full of ish when dealing with the other gender, and its not cool…but so what? Just because they get it doesnt mean all men ascribe to it. And why are you concerned with the ones that do?

          Like, yes in an ideal world, all humans would treat the people they interact with with a baseline level or respect and decency that they deserve. But they don’t. The difference is, that unlike institutionalized racism you can choose to walk away from romantic situations. So why concern yourself with the dudes that are full of fecal matter?

          Unless you believe that this is a condition that black men actively engage in..and then…welp. Don’t know what to tell you there.

          • Cheri Ann

            “I’m really confused as to your issue here.”

            You certainly have a lot to say for someone who is supposedly confused.

            Lol, why are so many women so confused by my “issue”? What is so unclear about what I’m saying? My comments have comparisons & analogies we can all draw from, I made spaces between paragraphs, hell, I even numbered my initial response. What is so mind-boggling and confusing about what I’m saying?

            So I’m really standing alone on this issue? None of the sisters can relate to what I’m saying, at all? Ya’ll just going to sit here and pretend like none of this resonates with any of you on any level…like, at all?

            We all know that is a damn lie to act like it doesn’t but ok. I get it. Company’s over.

            #strongblackwomanissues

            • Rachmo

              As a strong black woman myself you lost me here, “I think the missing piece in this puzzle about the black single woman’s experience is the psyche/perspective of black single men. An honest analysis.” SS gave you one and you rudely dismissed it. And he is one of the most logical men on this thread. Why ask if you don’t want to hear it? But you have a blessed day.

              • Agatha Guilluame

                OMG *squeals like a teenage girl* you’re so right. Where they do that at…ask for something and then say no thank you when they get exactly what they asked for…so many men are speaking their perspective but she ain’t checking for it.

                Sidenote: I agree with everything Cheri Ann is saying. #justcuz

                SideSidenote: How long are we going to continue to debate the merits of entertainment television and its deleteriousness to the black female psyche…this is like Black Yoda catnip…and it’s gonna bring him out to play. And we don’t want that. We don’t, do we. No.

                • Rachmo

                  1) Holy crap you’re agreeing with me in public. Do we go together now?
                  2) Her initial comment had some good points. But then others presented some really good counterpoints.
                  3) Is “deleteriousness” a word? You be reading. For real though I didn’t have too many thoughts about entertainment and my psyche bc I’m shallow and am focusing on their clothes and hair. MY favorite part of this whole article was his ESL joke. For real that sh*t was hilairous.

                  • Agatha Guilluame

                    I didn’t wanna agree with you. A little piece of my soul died.

                    Cheri Ann’s only problem was in making grand sweeping statements. If she’s been reading for years like she said then she’d know these VSBs and VSSs ain’t checking for generalizations. They want graphs and charts and links to peer reviewed articles. Unless of course you say something like “in my experience” or “in my life”…if she had, she would’ve avoided this whole blowback.

                    But I’m still stuck on asking for the male perspective and not taking in anything they’re saying. Arguing them down…for what…

                    • Rachmo

                      Oh I know it hurt. That’s why I feel joy in this cold dark heart. **jumps into Agatha’s arms even though she clearly did not want it**

                    • Shamira

                      you know she gon’ drop yo’ azz….muhfuggas never loved us!

                    • Agatha Guilluame

                      *Steps to the side.*

                    • Cheri Ann

                      So I’m responsible for your ratchet behavior?

                • Shamira

                  Here comes THIS heffa…..*sucks teeth*

                  • Agatha Guilluame

                    I lub you too ShamSham

                • John Shannon

                  Makes ya’ll wish Obsidian was here, don’t it??? :D

            • Shamira

              ahhhh, HERE it is. Lemme repost what I wrote downthread so that it makes sense.

              “You know, instead of being snarky, you could actually engage in the discussion so we could get somewhere. But whatever floats your boat, I guess.

              Did I say that I don’t understand romantic issues? What I said was whats the point in concerning myself with the negroes who don’t check for me the way I want them to? Like, what is it? They’re not checking for me. Does finding out why they don’t give me any solace? Does finding out why they want to fuq me but not commit give me peace of mind in any way? Like how does that help you accomplish your end goal? (which I’m presuming is to get a man to love and respect you the way that you deserve, although I wont speak for you).

              In my experience, pulling my hair out over why men did whatever the fuq they did gets you nowhere.

              But you want to act like an azz and talk down to people who have counterpoints. Okay boo boo.”

            • Shamira

              I didnt realize one of the characteristics of a strong black woman was to choose between a pill problem or being sloppy seconds to another womans husband. Guess I’m weak as fuq then.

              • http://wildcougarconfessions.com Wild Cougar

                What if the wife is actually the sloppy seconds.

                • Rachmo

                  Then I guess the choice is choose between being the sloppy seconds to the mistress or the pills. But remember the only other option is always the pills.

                  • Shamira

                    I got that lorazepam for the low low, doe….

                • Shamira

                  That’s cool, and that may have actually been the case, but Mary Jane didnt feel that way. Fact remains that Mary Jane felt scorned/played/etc. For the record, I don’t judge other people situations if all parties agree, but she wasnt happy and acted like she was forced to stay with the cards that were dealt to her.

                • SuperStrings

                  Then they’re both actually sloppy seconds to his selfishness. The wife is sloppy seconds because he actually wants to be with the other woman. The mistress is also sloppy seconds because he won’t break free of his situation (marriage) to be with her without constraints.

                  • camilleblue

                    “Then they’re both actually sloppy seconds to his selfishness”

                    Truth spoken…And Happy New Year SS :)

                    • SuperStrings

                      CB wassssssup! Happy New Year to you too. How’s 2014 going so far?

                    • camilleblue

                      It’s going well SS. May I ask where your parents live? Bc that pic made me think that they surely were looking down on us mere mortals from Mount Olympus. It was gorgeous.

                    • SuperStrings

                      They live in Hoover, AL. I love the view from their neighborhood. It’s so peaceful.

                  • http://wildcougarconfessions.com Wild Cougar

                    Yeah, I get what you’re saying, but I would say they are victims to his selfishness, both partaking in the sloppy seconds, which would be him. Because he is the only one who got used twice.

                    • SuperStrings

                      I can rock with that.

        • SuperStrings

          I don’t believe my statement to be smug or self-righteous. So, what adjective would you use to describe your statement: “Is this all that (Black) men have to offer me at this stage in my dating life?”

          I think pretty much all of the women on this site would tell you that, despite any bad experiences they may have had, they probably believe that (“black” to quote you) men have more to offer them than their past worst experiences. It seems as though you’re taking one type of man and presenting him as the totality of available men.

          • Cheri Ann

            The question I posed “Is this all that (Black) men have to offer me at this stage in my dating life?” was simply a counter to Panama’s question. I’m juxtaposing another perspective. That’s all. It’s not a right or wrong. Nor was the question Panama posed. It’s not based on my beliefs systems anymore than PJ’s original question was based upon his belief systems.

            But to say “If you believe it” is like a trump card people like to use to not really engage. It’s sort of like having a religious debate and someone says “Cause God says so” to shut the other person down. It’s like, ok…where can the conversation really go from there? And it is a hallmark phrase of person in a position of privilege to make the conversation go away. So, I still stand by the fact that I received your comment as being a bit smug and self-righteous. I really didn’t mean to sound like a jerk about it. My bad if it came off that way.

            • Cheri Ann

              I will say this. A lot of times, men engage other women in conversation from a position of privilege and don’t even realize it most of the time. It’s pretty much a fact of life and to me “If you believe it” is one of those phrases. Which was why I made that comparison to race relation conversations. I’ve met plenty of well-meaning white folks’ who believe if you just do enough yoga/down-ward facing dog and OHM meditations, you will literally be able to go through life no longer seeing racism. I’m sure I’m not the only one who has come across people like this. And they’re dead serious when they say it, but we all know it’s one of those things they say because it puts the burden of racism back on the oppressed rather than forcing them to confront it in a meaningful way. And truly, it’s just rude. I really don’t think that was a strange connection to make.

              It’s really all love, though. I swear I didn’t mean to make people feel all butt hurt. I am simply sticking to my guns.

              Real talk if the “smug and self-righteous comment” or my sarcasm really offended you, my apologies. No disrespect intended.

            • SuperStrings

              “But to say “If you believe it” is like a trump card people like to use to not really engage”
              I have no problem engaging. I think I’ve done so adequately today. ;-) I’m not offended by your comments. I simply disagree with your characterization of me as smug and self-righteous. No apologies necessary.

              • Guest

                cool….but your bodyguard Rachmo on the other hand was ready to have my head. (under a different name now, actually got an account. but ’tis I, Cheri Ann)

                • Cheri Ann

                  oh snap, that was meant to be deleted…sorry ya’ll

                  • Cheri Ann

                    Disqus is shit. But, hey it’s my face.

                • SuperStrings

                  Rachmo seems like good people. Actually, most of the people here seem like good people. Today just seemed to be an example of lots of really smart people (they don’t call it VSB for nothing!) arguing their perspectives. I know that anything I post here can (probably will) be challenged. It’s why I like coming here. I also understand if arguments get a little personal sometimes. People are commenting from their perspectives, which are…well…personal. Shots are fired sometimes; just make sure to pack extra ammo of your own and keep your teflon e-vest nearby. ;-)

                • Cheri Ann

                  I’m cute. don’t hate.

        • John Shannon

          See, it’s THAT Attitude that makes folks Not have Empathy. I do not see a Relationship or Love as a Power Move or a Power Grab; I want Love and a Relationship to be Fluid and as Non-Combative as Possible. Men MOSTLY deal with Logic, and if Doesn’t Compute We Don’t Go Forward or Collect $200. Something may FEEL Good, but I don’t necessarily Live Life by “feelings”. Take the Religious vs Secularists/Atheist conflict- ppl feel that God’s Grace is ALL We need and WE- People who actually Live on Earth- don’t really have to Do Anything because What’s the Point if God’s gonna Deal with Anyways, whereas Secularists/Atheists state People are In Control of their lives- not a “Voice in the Head” or from a Book (or Scrolls) written by Other Men (who may have been Homophobes or Homosexuals In Denial), Racists, Willfully Ignorant and Stubborn in Their Ways.
          EVERYONE has Free Will, and that essentially means Having a CHOICE- Choosing to Do anything by a “feeling” or Choosing what Makes Sense Across the Board. As Secularists/Atheists are claiming Religious folks are “hiding” behind Scripture(s) and/or God for their Choices of Bigotry, Racism, Sexism, Elitism, etc- You are accusing Men of essentially the Exact.Same.Thing.

      • BreezyX2

        http://25.media.tumblr.com/e246efba2eed043f8312245245d0479a/tumblr_mev9z1PhH71s06txbo1_500.gif

        You better stop before you be e-barefoot and e-pregnant by one of these VSS’s.

    • Shamira

      “what every woman like Mary Jane wants to know is what really goes on in the mind of a man like David, Mary Jane’s ex? She obviously wants him, they like each other’s company, and she is willing to make a space for him, she’s got her sh*t together for the most part, so what gives? Why the games at his age? Is there a fear of commitment? What does that even mean? Is it about him looking for The One? Does a guy like him even know what he’s looking for? Hopefully, we’ll get a show with a Black single male as the center and we can finally get a more complete picture.”

      But why? We have blogs like, this, SBM, etc. Men have given their perspective. Sometimes you just dont want to commit. There can be a million reasons why, there can be no reasons why. But ultimately it comes down to the dude or woman isnt checking for you the way that you are checking for him or her, right?

      I feel like this is the women’s version of the “Friend Zone” discussion. “Im a good guy, I have a good job, never been to jail, am 6 feet tall, so why doesnt she want me?” It’s actually a rather selfish discussion. Which is fine humans are selfish by nature, but the real question we’re all asking is “Why are the guys or girls I’m checking for not checking for me the way I want them to?” Well, why have you rejected men in the past? Again, it could be a million reasons, or no reason. At the end of the day, it doesnt matter one way or the other. Nobody is obligate to make it work because of a checklist.

      I also don’t know what game he’s playing. If I recall, SHE was the one that proposed the casual situation. She set the parameters and got mad that he was playing the game exactly as she asked? What game is that?

      • Cheri Ann

        Friend zone? That was a booty call!

        No, she called him out on it (“let’s not pretend this isn’t something that it is”). she didn’t propose it.

        Did we watch the same show?

        • Shamira

          Girl what is your deal. So she called him out on it. Semantics. She still was cool with it…until she wasnt. And then got mad at him for it. SO?

    • Shamira

      “The suicide attempt of her friend (who I believe is the doctor that did her niece’s ultrasound-so another successful single Black woman) that Mary Jane concluded was because of her loneliness was like a warning sign. (and notice in that scene when she’s recounting that situation to David, how he made light of it and quickly moved on). When you play by all the rules, what else are you really supposed to do? There’s only so much self-reflecting and traveling one can do. So, I’m sure giving in to a good screw with the married man seemed like a better option than od’ing on sleeping pills like her friend did. ”

      I’m sorry, girl, what? Bye.

      HE made light of it? Is this before or after she was like “ttyl gotta go try and get it in before work, stay away from those pills honey!” Or after he was the one who said the girl should go to a therapist?

      And because her girl has serious psychological issues that allegedly are due to loneliness, and not…oh, NEEDING MEDICAL HELP… that explains why shes open to smashing a married dude?

      Is Being Mary Jane Land a world where only two black men exist?

      This is the part thats supposed to resonate with single black female professionals?

      • Cheri Ann

        “I’m sorry, girl, what? Bye.”

        I don’t know if you know but that’s not really engaging in conversation, as you so boldly declared I need to do.

        “And because her girl has serious psychological issues”- MJ says she’s lonely, David says she needs to go to a therapist. According to you, there’s no merit to what MJ said, like, at all, then?

        Why even watch the show, then? Because clearly MJ is just confused woman, getting in her own way, wrong about almost everything, and totally unrelateable. What is the appeal in her character?

        • Shamira

          Yep, its not. Cuz I tried three times to start a discussion with you and all you had was snark.

          I ain’t say you needed to do anything, I said, we could have a further discussion without you acting like theres not more than one side to a story and you chose not to engage. Free country and ish. But acting like I’m not intelligent cuz I don’t agree with what you’re saying or understand your ultimate point? I’m not gonna keep it cute after that.

          You’re telling me that not having a man around is a reasonable factor in being suicidal? And even IF thats the case, that doesnt require therapy? And not, you know, popping pills or smashing a married dude? Or STEALING seminal fluids?

          And if you read my comment, you would know that I won’t be watching again. I gave it a try because I wanted to support an effort to present an interesting black female character on a platform, and I was disappointed.

        • BreezyX2

          Cheri Ann: Honey, I don’t recall ever seeing your handle on VSB till today so I don’t have a history on you. But your comments come off as a person who has been extremely hurt. Maybe you should stop commenting on this thread today and just go back and read through some of the things you have said and the responses given. There is so much food for thought there.

          • Andrea

            I don’t think that is very nice to say….I translate it as: I am not familiar with you. I don’t like what you are saying. Stop talking. But I said all of that really nicely.

            • Shamira

              All shes saying is that she seems to be refusing to hear what others are saying in favor of yelling her point and to take a beat. Like if 12 people are offering you counterpoints and you dismiss ALL of them, what are you achieving? What’s the point of engaging in this comments section if you don’t actually want to hear what others have to say? You want to bloviate at will about your feelings without entertaining other sides then start a blog. There are plenty of wordpress domains to be had.

              Also, she’s been rude and condescending as fuq. Her responses have been “of course you as a man would say that ish” “this is just like racism” “youre intentionally lying to pretend to have a counterpoint” “you are just unintelligent for not hearing my side.” You gon call her out on that or nah?

            • Rachmo

              Yeah it’s hard for me to keep listening to someone who I not only disagree with, but is also rude. I mean many diverse people here have said er I think your logic is off and this is why and she continues to be combative. Hence, why something doesn’t sound right.

              • Andrea

                I totally hear you. I just feel people have the right to say Whatever they want on these things. If I don’t like it Ignore it. If the blog doesn’t approve of it…. They can moderate how they choose. Not my job.

                • Rachmo

                  Well then Breezy had the right to say what she wanted as well. Also Breezy ended it positively so I wouldn’t call her wack or mean but whatevs it’s Thursday

                  • Andrea

                    I hear ya. I wasn’t trying to call Breezy wack. Just the idea of not being ABLE to Speak freely (is wack to me), even if everyone else hates it. I am calling the statement wack…even though no one agrees with me. :)

                    • Rachmo

                      Fair enough. Either way, it’s Thursday at 1 PM, it’s getting warmer in DC, and we are all closer to a cocktail.

                    • Andrea

                      PREACH! Do you have any good Happy Hour recommendations for Thursday? I’m always tryna find something new.

                    • Rachmo

                      It depends what are you into? Idk you but you seem like you’d want to be on the more upscale side of things?

                    • Andrea

                      I can go either way.

                    • Rachmo

                      I’m thinking

                    • Rachmo

                      So here’s what I’m thinking:
                      - For Bourbon and BBQ- Smoke and Barrel
                      - For Grown up Drinks a bit out of the way- Smith Commons (it’s on H street)
                      - For grown up Black people- Ben’s Next Door (good wings)
                      - For Hookah- Chi Cha lounge although they have bullsh*t cover charge of $5

                    • Andrea

                      Thank you! Thank you! Thank you! I think I’m feeling Bourbon and BBQ, I never even heard of Smoke and Barrel and it is just up the block. I am trying so hard to explore H street, except I never explore H street :) I have never had the wings at Ben’s….will do. Chi Cha’s got a cover…they be trippin.

                    • http://theblackbondblog.wordpress.com/ BlkBond

                      How about that…3/4 isn’t bad. Where’s smoke and barrel?

                      Might have to make an appearance..

                    • Rachmo

                      It’s in Adams Morgan on 18th Street. They have great food and a large selection of bourbon and beers. It’s really laid back.

                    • Andrea

                      Someone Hates happy hour!!! Oh my word.

                • Shamira

                  lol you know whats funny though? this is exactly parallel to a lot of behavior that some aint ish men have that she seems to take issue with. lack of self accountability, and expecting other people to accommodate accordingly or get to stepping. but yet when a man does it in the context of romance, its reprehensible…

                  • Andrea

                    Yeah…to be honest…..I ain’t really read nothing she said…..LOL

                    • BreezyX2

                      Well that is just wack. At least read the comments of the person you are caping for.

                  • http://missrosen.wordpress.com/ esa

                    thas the Law of Attraction in full effect.

            • To’Mas Que Fuego

              You need to work on your translation then. Everyone here is being very patient with her irrational train of thought (and she’s clearly up in her feelings, but not handling them well). If she would be less disrespectful and dismissive of answers that don’t fit her interpretations of reality this would be a much more productive conversation (I’m a lil sad that it’s not that as of now).

            • Ms. Bridget

              That’s how it came across to me too.

          • Cheri Ann

            Don’t put me on a couch. That’s very typical, just dismiss me as a woman scorned. That’s original.

            • Andrea

              Yeah, that was wack.

            • BreezyX2

              Cheri: Anyone on VSB can tell you I am not here to engage in bull and internet arguments. I was being sincere and thought I would offer you a suggestion because it is sometimes hard to see beyond your hurt/frustrations in a situation that is close to your heart. Have a nice day!

          • Cheri Ann

            I’m face palming this entire conversation. Like, I’m floored.

          • http://missrosen.wordpress.com/ esa

            Miss Breezy, i support Cheri Ann using VSB as a space to put herself and her ideas into the conversation. the fact that she has such an impressive effect so many people is nothing short of a testament to the necessity for open dialogue.

            i have come to discover i enjoy disagreement, if only because it requires me to dig deeper in myself to reflect on my truest principles. that said, there was once a time when i came to VSB something of an unholy mess, and i was fortunate that y’all gave me the space to be messy. i’d like to extend that generosity y’all showed me to all commenters ~*~

            • Shamira

              It’s not an open dialogue though. It’s her angrily opining and then insisting that its our fault for not getting it.

              • http://missrosen.wordpress.com/ esa

                understood. i agree Cheri Ann does not appear open, but her being closed does not impact my efforts to create and maintain space for open dialogue.

                that said, once she rewrote my words to suggest i was speaking about anyone other than myself, i understood that we had come to the end of the road. word to Boyz II Men.

                • Rachmo

                  BOL! I just lost it at work.

                • BreezyX2

                  LMBOOOOOOOOOOOO!!!!

                • To’Mas Que Fuego

                  In other words…(Translated to less than angelic speak)

                  We prefer to disagree when it’s the most productive route, but it got a lil unproductive when she let her feelings make her get wreckless, erroneous, and irrational. It was a shame too because I wanted to help her understand but she wouldn’t let me. She preferred her own negative perspective that was based on limiting beliefs. So we kept livin our #shruglife #weaintworriedboutnothin

                  • BreezyX2

                    “In other words…(Translated to less than angelic speak)”

                    *dead*

                    Happy New Year Just Me The Guy :)

                  • Rachmo

                    HAHAHAHAHA

                  • Cheri Ann

                    “let her feelings make her get wreckless, erroneous, and irrational” The only irrational people are ones who act like hell hath frozen over when an alternative and valid perspective is offered. That’s getting caught up in your feelings.

                    Chile please…

            • BreezyX2

              Esa!!! Happy New Year!

              I totally agree. The key point in what you said is “respectful disagreement”. Everything I have read thus far as been everything other than that. Furthermore, I am not policing VSB or any of its participants. Simply giving this person a suggestion to pause for a moment and reflect.

              • http://missrosen.wordpress.com/ esa

                Happy New Year, Miss Breezy ~*~

                i know you meant well and were speaking from your heart. i understand you were offering a mature response to dischord. i know your intention is not to police, but to offer positive solutions.

                i only wanted to offer a counterpoint, which is, sometimes people need to fall apart in order to observe their own mind outside of their head. i did a little edit and took out the word “respectful” cause i knew that would be the lynch pin, and i wanted to keep the focus where it really belongs (for me), which is on disagreement.

                i say this, not to encourage disrespect in any form, but only because i realize, cant no one disrespect me unless i say so.

                • BreezyX2

                  Love you Esa!

                  • http://missrosen.wordpress.com/ esa

                    xoxo

            • Andrea

              That’s what I mean to say…LOL….@esa can I pay you to write my comments?

              • http://missrosen.wordpress.com/ esa

                (smile) not necessary, Miss Andrea. all these words and ideas do not belong to me but pass through me and if you like em, take em and enjoy ~*~

    • panamajackson

      1. I’ll grant you that because the shows are created by Black women, they are more “trustworthy”. But I guess I wonder would it matter it if wasn’t? Would there be an issue if the show as written by the Glee dude? Also, “cut him off” is a strong term. She has no willpower when it comes to dude. She’s gonna continue dealing with him. We know this from the previews for the next episode. She wanted to cut him off. She couldn’t do it. Or can’t. I’ll give it more time, but I don’t for a second buy the “she cut him off” thing. She put her head in the sand and hoped he’d go away on his own which history teaches us never happens.

      2. Given what we see on TV, I dont mind you asking that question. Though in Olivia’s case, she had a man that her father attempted to kill who came back and treated her like a queen…but she just didn’t want him. But I feel like that’s a question EVERYBODY should ask of their dating situations if they aren’t the most positive; men and women.

      3. I don’t buy that two extremes thing though. Sleeping with the married man or ODing? And David offered the ACCURATE solution: she needs help. Mary Jane said, quickly, “she has help”. Who was more dismissive? Him or her? I think there are movies that pretty accurately talk about how men feel, like The Wood. I think that movie actually does a good job of going through the motions. But it’s a male-centric movie. There are movies that speak a lot from the male point of view. Thing is, some of those questions you ask are purely for your own masochistic pleasure (oxymoron, I know) Why try to understand the f*ckery. If a man aint treating you right, then say f*ck it. But sometimes you all just want a reason so you can validate the fact that you know you’re not going to let him go. Justification…even if its dumb, somehow validates the bad choice.

      While I think its a lazy thing to do for us men, the reason we just call women crazy is because we don’t understand that sh*t and we aint even TRYING to figure out a lot. Sh*t, its pointless. Women understand each other and y’all hate other women half the time for their antics. Understanding is understandable, but at the end of the day somebody will always hit you with a curve you aint see coming. Men and women are just different. Life got easier when I just stated facts and quit trying to make logical sense out of them.

      • http://missrosen.wordpress.com/ esa

        ~ While I think its a lazy thing to do for us men, the reason we just call women crazy is because we don’t understand that sh*t and we aint even TRYING to figure out a lot. Sh*t, its pointless.

        i respectfully disagree with the conclusion that understanding the female mind is “pointless”.

        i’ve discovered that the more i can articulate to men the way in which the female mind works, both as a matter of nature and of nurture, the better i have become at overcoming some terrible conditioning, as well as helping the dudes i speak with understand what they described as “crazy” because they did not know how what was going on.

        the inner lives of men and women are not self evident to the opposite chex. that is why open communication is necessary, if we are to collaborate and create something greater than ourselves ~*~

        • panamajackson

          pointless may be a strong word…but let me clarify. during the course of the day i’m in conversation with no less than 10 different women via chat and text. about any number of relationship centric things. what i’ve learned is that you all think very differently it’s almost as if all 10 women have a different opinion. so while trying to understand may not be pointless…achieving actual understanding has become one of those things im okay with out.

          on a large scale anyway.

          understanding why the woman im with does what she does isn’t pointless. i like peace. and to quote Xscape, “what i need from you is understaaaaanding…” even if it makes no sense to me, it may matter to her so I’ll try to at least empathize. which im not good at. buti try.

          • http://missrosen.wordpress.com/ esa

            i can dig it. i dont have the wherewithal to spread myself across the surface of things. i gave that a whirl and it burned me out.

            now i prefer depth (twss) to all else, and i find the best way to achieve this is through focus. talking to ten different people about their inner lives on any level every day would shut me down. i cant process that much, and it would be a mistake for me to take that on, particularly if any one or more of those people is trapped in an irrational paradigm,

            i’d call it pointless too, but the only thing that would be pointless would be me setting myself up. maybe that is because actual understanding of both the female and male mind are so critical to the healing i am doing in myself. i find the better i am at listening to men, the more i learn about the blind spots in myself. vice versa, the better i can articulate the female mind to men, the more i can help close the gap between us.

            but i cant do it alone ~*~

            • panamajackson

              I respect that. And believe it or not, I have actual indepth convos with all of them. So its not just surface level pointless. It’s realizing that at the core, everybody’s just different. You want to understand people, you have to do it individually.

              • http://missrosen.wordpress.com/ esa

                i do believe it. thas my point. that a whole lot of energy to process, because i, too, am an individualist.

                that’s why i think the word pointless hit me. it’s not the content but the context that creates a feeling of defeat. less is more, like Mies Van Der Rohe said.

              • http://wildcougarconfessions.com Wild Cougar

                captain obvious over here….

          • Agatha Guilluame

            I didn’t know I was part of a team…indexed under A in your binder full of women. I thought our shared jokes and shyt talk was special. *pouts*

            • BreezyX2

              *Stevie J voice* Get on the bus or get left.

              • Agatha Guilluame

                hahahahahahahahahahahaha *shuts up and sits in seat*

            • Shamira

              *puts on Chuck Smith voice* you were just a part of the team bae.

              I mean, just cuz I introduced you to my momma…and my daughter…and put you in my holiday christmas card…don’t mean we really go together, nahmsayin?

              Now what allergy meds did you need me to pick up for you again?

              • Agatha Guilluame

                BOL!

      • Cheri Ann

        no willpower? The man stalked her! Can a sister catch break? She sped off at top speed almost wrecking her precious Porshe to get away from him, hosed him down on her lawn, listed him as Do Not Answer; and told his wife for goodness sakes, and started seeing her ex for awhile. What more is homegirl supposed to do? He catches her half naked near a shower, she gives in, and now she’s got “no willpower”? That’s kinda harsh.

        “Sleeping with the married man or ODing?” I don’t see why that’s hard to buy into. Ok, so she may not OD, but that moment of weakness with Mr. Married in the shower was more of “Fu*k It” moment. Because she can either wallow in her loneliness or get some. No one said it was a good choice. It was simply a choice, one that happens, humans do stuff like that.

        “the reason we just call women crazy is because we don’t understand that sh*t and we aint even TRYING to figure out a lot.

        There’s really nothing to figure out. Don’t lie, be clear about your intentions, try not be a jerk, and it’s really all good.

        ” Women understand each other and y’all hate other women half the time for their antics. Understanding is understandable”

        Cosign. This. As evidenced by the females responses to my comments sections. They know good and well they feel me but now that company’s over, they trying to act brand new. Whatever. I digress…

    • JayIzUrGod

      I tend to feel horrible sometimes as a Black man that honestly, too many of my gender really don’t have much to offer Black women. I’ve never seen our plight on equal footing. In fact, it reminds me more of China’s male population plight…50 million young single men, not nearly enough women, and losing out on time to bond with someone. I don’t see it as fair, it doesn’t make sense, but…I can’t think of any good reason why our problem, unlike China’s which requires 50 million women, can’t be solved. It’s strictly a problem based on lack of empathy, maturity, and character.
      I hope one day it changes, because if I had a daughter, I’d want her to have a shot a true love. Not scraps of like.

      • Cheri Ann

        “I’ve never seen our plight on equal footing” and “a problem based on lack of empathy, maturity, and character. ”
        Both. Of. These.Yes.

        http://i1081.photobucket.com/albums/j360/misscolettemac/amen.gif

      • http://missrosen.wordpress.com/ esa

        ~ In fact, it reminds me more of China’s male population plight…50 million young single men, not nearly enough women, and losing out on time to bond with someone.

        man, i feel for China’s female population plight. babies left on the road to die or withering away in orphanages. lonely grown men, yea that’s sad. dead or neglected children, that’s criminal.

    • To’Mas Que Fuego

      “I believe the bigger picture is that Black women feel like we’re held to an unspoken but unreasonably higher standard than our counterparts when it comes to dating and it leaves many of us really confused.”

      I see your point and it’s a good one because I do think many (if not most) black women do seem to feel this way, but I disagree with that perspective and one word is where we differ. Ya’ll aren’t held to a “better” standard. Yall are just held to a different one. Yall talk a lot about double standards, but you don’t mind the ones that work in your favor. The thing about double standards are that they form organically based on what different sets of people value. Cooperation means understanding and responding to what your teammates need. You can’t just stubbornly insist that they value or desire the same things that you do.

  • kidvideo

    Anybody catch the Peoples Choice Awards? Jennifer Hudson got an award and brought her sister on stage to accept…the sister looked…ah…full…to say the least.

    • http://stanoffewwords.wordpress.com/ Tristan

      She’ll probably get a weight watchers ad pitying her old self in a few years too

  • Just kia

    Shameless is awesome. That’s all I got. I am here for all the crazy and shock that the show brings. As far as Being Mary Jane, it’s a show.

    • Kema

      I love shameless!!!

  • http://www.twitter.com/IluminatiNYC Todd

    I think the problem is that Black women, like just about every other demographic, are so desperate for validation that they’ll accept any depiction on TV. If anything, middle class Black men are the only group they quite haven’t figured out how to pander to yet, because just about every other socioeconomic group gets their own shows that pander to them. I get the validation behind it, but it isn’t healthy. Not everyone can be special at all times.

    Maybe we need to figure out what is it in American society that drives the need to be accepted so much. That’s the only way things are going to change.

    • afronica

      “If anything, middle class Black men are the only group they quite haven’t figured out how to pander to yet, because just about every other socioeconomic group gets their own shows that pander to them.”

      It’s called Sports with a capital S.

      There was a post on here a while back. A number of the male commenters talked about how much they love sports and co-signs rained like manna. Guys loved the non-manufactured drama, the anyone can win any day-ness of it, the down to the last second interception and run back for 60 yards touchdown. Sports is y’all’s Scandal/RHOA.

      What kept running through my mind the day of those comments was follow the money. I’ll put aside concussion-gate. I’ll turn a blind eye to farm systems for the pros that start these days with eight year olds. I’ll just say that when that much money (in transmission fees, gambling, merchandise, player contracts, etc.) is involved, I just don’t buy that none of it is scripted or rigged. Wasn’t there a referee scandal a few years back? IJS.