Dating, Relationships, & Sex, Race & Politics, Theory & Essay

What “Game” Really Says About Women (…And Why So Many Of Them Hate It)

Once you get past all the VSB-related sites, the news sites, the sports/basketball sites, the sites I work for, and the sites with, um, mature content, a quick glance at my most frequently visited websites would show two places — Jezebel and Chateau Heartiste — that seem to be polar opposites of each other. Actually, “polar opposites” is too kind. They’d be the internet’s equivalent of Neo and Agent Smith, of Bill and the Bride, of Rick Ross and celery — entities devoted to each other’s demise.

Despite this stark contrast — and despite the fact that both tend to harbor views much, much, more extreme than mine — I’m a fan of both sites because they both feature very talented writers who are unafraid of being transparent with their agendas and are clearly having fun while they’re writing. Basically, while I get bored at most of the places I find on the internet, I don’t get bored at Jezebel or Chateau Heartiste.

Anyway, if you read enough content at each of these sites, you’ll see that much of their contempt for each other has to do with the concept of “game” roughly defined as a set of rules devised to help men approach, attract, and seduce women. Those in the “manosphere”/PUA (Pick-up artist) community believe in it (and the evolutionary psychology it stems from), while those who lean feminist think it’s useless, dangerous, and basically teaches men how to be creeps and rapists.

A recent article at Slate.com attempted to tackle this issue. Titled “Why Are Women So Negative About the “Pickup Artist” Community?” Gayle Laakmann McDowell addressed the main issues women seem to have with “game” and the people who teach and/or practice it.

I’m 5-foot-9, and I’m just not going to go home with a guy who is 5-foot-3, goes by the nickname “Snake” (seriously?!?), and is overweight, and pimply, and won’t just answer a direct question about what he does for a living. But he keeps pursuing because, well, “I’m just playing games with him.” I’m trying to see if he passes some test, apparently.

These are the sort of repeated interactions I had with guys in the PUA community, and why I got turned against it. Once upon a time, this guy might have been a perfectly normal but nerdy guy, who could have dated online, met someone nice, got married, and been perfectly happy.

PUA instruction turns awkward, nerdy guys who just want a girlfriend into creepy guys who harass and insult women. And that’s not OK!

PUA instruction teaches guys these mechanical ways of interacting with women that don’t really work and fails to recognize that every woman is different. Some women just won’t go home with you. Sorry. Maybe she’s out of your league. Or maybe she’s just not interested in you. Or maybe she just doesn’t go home with random dudes from bars.

The words coming out of a woman’s mouth? It’s not all a game. You can have actual conversations with us. When I say “What do you do for a living?” it’s because I actually care. Because I’m looking for someone to build a relationship with, and someone with no career goals is not a good match for me. Answer the question.

Her first couple paragraphs touch on the most common critique of game and the PUA community, that it makes men think they can approach any woman, even those who are completely (and obviously) out of their league. Instead of attempting to “stay at their pay grades,” it gives male threes the confidence to think that female eight and nines will go home with them if they play their cards right.

But, while I guess I can see how frustrating it could be for a woman getting continually hit on by men she’s not even close to being attracted to, how does a guy know he has no chance unless he actually tries? Lemme answer that for you. He doesn’t. And, for a man, asking and being wrong is always — always — going to be better than not even trying and not knowing.

That being said, I think the main issue that (many) women have with game isn’t about the men who practice it as much as the concept of game itself, something Laakmann McDowell touches on towards the end of the article. As I mentioned upthread, game is roughly defined as a set of rules devised to help men approach, attract, and seduce women.

Thing is, if game is actually a valid and highly applicable concept, it also means that something else must be true, something (most) women have fought against and will continue to fight against, well, forever — women aren’t as special and unique as they think they are.

Game theory argues that what worked on Sally in Sacramento will also work, with some slight variations, on Patricia in Pennsylvania, Ruth in Russia, and Betty in Botswana. If this is true, if all it takes is a couple relatively easy rules to remember to exponentially help your dating and mating prospects with every woman, then — aside from some physical characteristics — women just really aren’t all that different from each other. And, if women just really aren’t all that different from each other, they’re disposable and easily replaceable. (You know who else is generally thought to be disposable and easily replaceable? Men.)

Now, I’m sure you’ve noticed that I haven’t really offered any opinion yet on whether I think game theory is valid. This is intentional. Why? Well, I honestly don’t know the answer to that question.

While I don’t believe that women are all the same — and, every time I get to know a woman, I receive tangible proof of this uniqueness — I do know that, every single time I’ve been a little more assertive, a little cockier, a little more direct, a little more “alpha,” and a little less pressed when speaking to a woman (basically, adopting an attitude of “I’m interested in you, but I’m not impressed by you. At all.“), I’ve gotten more rhythm than when I was less sure of myself. Every. single. time.

You know, perhaps the reason why game theory seems so, well, creepy is that it distills the art of courtship and seduction — romance, basically — until it becomes a science; turning certain qualities that we (men and women) assume are organic into something that can be studied, copied, and ultimately faked. A cheat sheet for a phenomenon we thought was impervious to cheating.

Maybe game theory does actually work. Anecdotal as it may be, my evidence tells me this may be true. But, as much as it may help to get a woman interested in you, it doesn’t seem to say very much about the most important part — keeping her interested. And, to keep a woman interested, it does help to actually (gasp!) learn shit about her.

Not to get all Romney all you, but perhaps the reason why the manosphere and the feminists don’t see eye to eye is that they’re both wrong and right at the same time.

—Damon Young (aka “The Champ”)

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Scary maze | Play friv games here - http://www.getaheadofthegames.com/best-friv-games online. | Bus driving games, play bus games online.

Damon Young

Damon Young is the editor-in-chief of VSB. He is also a contributing editor for EBONY.com. He resides in Pittsburgh, and he really likes pancakes.

  • Stanley

    The thing is game works. And I like what works…

    • http://www.BlackLatinaFabulous.wordpress.com Maris

      It works, but for what purpose? Game really only gets you so far, which is why it’s so attractive to the “Urkel” set. Everyone is pretty much on equal footing when it comes to their chances of finding an appropriate spouse, not so much for finding temporary fun, which is what ‘game’ is suited for-and what they’ve er…’lacked’ in life so far. I dunno. If it helps them get a few draws, more power. Just don’t block my way to the bar if I’ve told you no twice.

      • Rewind

        That’s not true.

        There’s a whole generation of young men who feel they just can’t get with girls at all. I’m aware this has been around for a long time, but so many things have changed since days of yore. Many men, who don’t have the “alpha” mentality lack the motivation and self-esteem to essentially believe that most women would give them a chance, ESPECIALLY when it was usually women that made them feel worthless.

        I can’t speak for women, but I always got that the general theme was ” a women chooses the man, not the other way around”.

  • http://www.thesexysinglemommy.com Ty Knighten

    I think that both men and women have “game.” It just comes out in different ways. As far as this, “game theory” is concerned, I think that it’s a bunch of BS. I don’t consider “approaching” someone to be “game.” I also don’t consider men who use pick-up lines as having “game.” I actually think that they are pathetic. Pick-up lines don’t work, just be honest with your approach. A simple, “Hi. How are you ?” will work just fine.

    • https://twitter.com/#!/mackaroto Jay

      Of course both men and women have game. The thing about it is women naturally have waaaaaay more game. I think that this is another reason why women get all up in arms about it. Modern man’s interest in game is evening the playing field in the realm of seduction… a realm in which women have traditionally DOMINATED.

      • Asiyah

        Women have more game? Since when?

        • https://twitter.com/#!/mackaroto Jay

          Obsidian said downthread that “women can’t posess game the way that men do”. I almost argued this point until I read a second time… “THE WAY THAT MEN DO” is the most poignant part of that statement. Its like basketball there’s skill then there is physical dominance. There are tons of sh*tty 5’11″ guards with more skills than Shaquille Oneal. Shaq is over 7 feet tall and over 300 pounds though… he would and could never have had the drive to learn to shoot 3 pointers consistently, or free throws… why would he!? His optimal effectiveness comes from being close to the basket, its just the way the game works. Same with women they can’t develop game the way that men do because THEY DON’T HAVE TO. You guys have “the prize”. As a whole men approach YOU…Thats game in itself. Its different. The feminine form of “game” is still more powerful though IMHO.

          • Asiyah

            Hmm…I will ponder and reflect. I have no opinion on the matter, so this is all interesting.

    • http://verysmartbrothas.com The Champ

      “I also don’t consider men who use pick-up lines as having “game.” I actually think that they are pathetic. Pick-up lines don’t work, just be honest with your approach. A simple, “Hi. How are you ?” will work just fine.”

      to be fair, game theory isn’t necessarily about pick up lines as much as it’s about eluding a sense of confidence that the woman picks up on

  • http://testorshia.blogspot.com Tes

    This was a post just made for Uncle O, wasn’t it Uncle Champ?

    In any case, the knowledge that I am not the only girl who digs Dilla (and Madlib), loves Mortal Kombat and believes every man deserves at least an hour of ESPN/videogame/”get-the-hell-away-from-me-woman” time is one of those things that keeps me on my toes. What else do I have to offer? What else do I bring into a relationship? In that sense, the subtle insecurity (the “you’re not special”ness) of game is a motivator to be the type of person that I’d willingly, proudly date.

    Now…I don’t really dig “game” as a science. I prefer the genuine, non-science-y stuff (unless you happen to be a scientist and can turn me on with your knowledge). I like conversations, I like food, I like activities that we could do together that let me know what you think, who you are, and what you want from me. Game seems so…shady and slimy. Like, whenever I hear “game” I immediately think a guy is just trying to get into my pants and will do or say anything to that end, and that’s a definite turn off.

    • http://lizburr.com Liz

      Ha. I was just thinking this post as Obsidian written all over it.

      *rolls out the carpet for plenty of O dissertations to follow today*

      • http://testorshia.blogspot.com Tes

        *puts on good reading glasses*

      • DG

        Given O’s verbose nature, I suspect today we’ll see some of the longest threads…yet fewest comments/posts…as we’ve ever seen on this here site….

        • http://testorshia.blogspot.com Tes

          *hides inconspicuously behind DG*

      • Anastasia!!!

        Yes I definitely will be adjourning my @ss today!

        • Thai

          Haha…I will be right there with you adjourning my arse too!

        • Sweet GA Brown

          +1

    • https://twitter.com/#!/IluminatiNYC Todd

      Now…I don’t really dig “game” as a science. I prefer the genuine, non-science-y stuff (unless you happen to be a scientist and can turn me on with your knowledge). I like conversations, I like food, I like activities that we could do together that let me know what you think, who you are, and what you want from me. Game seems so…shady and slimy. Like, whenever I hear “game” I immediately think a guy is just trying to get into my pants and will do or say anything to that end, and that’s a definite turn off.

      Not to drift too off topic, but I think Game gets nailed for the same reason a lot of science gets nailed in general. A lot of people, and women moreso, tend to see science as cold and impersonal. But let’s keep it 100. If it wasn’t for a bunch of nerdy dudes interested in science and technology in the 70s, we literally couldn’t have this convo. I wouldn’t have the opportunity to even make this comment.

      Yes, science is cold, rational and analytical. That’s what I love about it. You can’t BS and schmooze your way to get what you want. Ironically, being good about science means that humanity gets a space to be more warm and social. It allows people better means to decry the better thing that brought them together so they can continue with their fuzzy social lives.

      • http://testorshia.blogspot.com Tes

        I agree; the cold and impersonal nature of it though makes it difficult for a warm and fuzzy person like myself to get overly into it, especially a science I feel is designed to manipulate another person.

        • demondog06

          aww look at the zylon trynna sound all warm and human and shid
          that’s cute……

          • http://testorshia.blogspot.com Tes

            -_- I’m waiting on my human test! I’ll pass it I swear!

            • Rewind

              By my Battlestar Galatica estimations, you proably are Cylon 6.

              Which is fine because she was fawking hot.

              • http://testorshia.blogspot.com Tes

                So not only am I a cyborg, I’m a hot cyborg? *mulls it over* …Nah, I’m a human. Definitely. Not even a “humanoid” but just a regular, run of the mill human. I promise.

                • Rewind

                  Hush girl. You just happen to be awesome. Stay that way, that’s all I ask.

                  • http://testorshia.blogspot.com Tes

                    Now that I can do. *salutes*

              • Brother Mouzone

                You’re right, Rewind…that’s the model with the “warm and fuzzy” programming installed.

                • Rewind

                  I was listening to this podcast by this sex columinist named Dan Savage. He said he couldn’t wait for the invention of the sex bot because people are so overtly perverted with exteremely detailed interests that honestly on a robot could fufull those needs. I agree.

          • Brother Mouzone

            lol….

      • http://pinchmycheekie.wordpress.com Cheekie

        I think you hit the nail on the head with “cold & impersonal.” That’s what game seems to me. And no matter HOW much posturing confidence you SEEM to have via game methods, smart women can see that ish from a mile away. It’s why we always laugh at men who try too hard. Real confidence involves no real trying at all. It’s natural…

        • Kema

          Said like a confident person. lol For some it is something that evolves over time. Yes it is natural but for some it is learned.

          • http://pinchmycheekie.wordpress.com Cheekie

            But the thing is, we rarely see the steps they took to become confident… we just see the result. Which is what matters here. Confidence in the moment, comes across with no effort. Even if you learn it and DID have effort, you haven’t really learned until you come across as if it took no effort at all. ;)

            LOL, maybe I used the word when I said “natural”… I really mean, effortless. You know how folks are always impressed when others make ish look easy, even if it isn’t? That is the essence of confidence. lol

            • Justmetheguy

              “LOL, maybe I used the word when I said “natural”… I really mean, effortless. ”

              Exactly.

              The thing about confidence is that it’s like a muscle. The more you put it up against resistance the stronger it gets. Game gives brothers a good strength and conditioning program (ie structure for how to actually build their confidence) and the competence of fully understanding the whole “game” so that they know how to build confidence. Whereas women’s advice to us is always the same “be confident….naturally” Girl, have three seats lol

              • http://pinchmycheekie.wordpress.com Cheekie

                Maybe the problem I have with Game is that a lot of its players DON’T come across as effortless. Hell, there are actual scripts used to pickup chicks. Same ol strategic moves used that a lot of men regurgitate. I don’t know… maybe the main problem is that the strategy IS public. So then more people know what to look for and know when the “game” is being played on them. lol

                Kinda like pickup lines period. If they weren’t all formulated into pop culture, we wouldn’t know if a pickup line was indeed a pickup line. But because they’re all used so often, a pattern formulates and folks get hip to it.

                • Justmetheguy

                  “Maybe the problem I have with Game is that a lot of its players DON’T come across as effortless. ”

                  Seems more like you have a problem with the mediocre players participating…

                  As far as it being public and scripted and all that, that’s a good point. It’s why I don’t actually follow PUA routines. I adhere to some of their philosophies but I follow my own script. I think only people with no verbal skills follow that crap to a tee. If they recite pickup lines then they clearly didnt read “The Game” because the whole point is NOT to do that lol. But a person who already has social skills and verbal talent knows how to improvise conversation while still adhering to SOME (I don’t follow them all) principles of “game”. If I come with a pickup line, I’m joking, and it’s obvious because the woman usually laughs and then the ice is broken (if she doesn’t, she doesn’t have a good sense of humor so I usually don’t finish the convo). Yall are takin this whole thing too literally lol

                  • http://pinchmycheekie.wordpress.com Cheekie

                    LOL we’re taking it literally because the fact that basic courting even needs a step-by-step, scripted guideline means it takes itself literally by default. And also, there were actual books and tv shows dedicated to the literal interpretation of this so you can’t fault us for taking it literally if they present it as such.

                    Taking certain principles from it and making it your own is a different thing. But don’t act like that’s how they sell it. “The Game” is a “this is how you do it” culture, not a “up to your own interpretation” culture. There are already unwritten courting rituals that are placed by society… any extension of that is doing the most. lol

                    • Justmetheguy

                      They sell it like that because their target market probably does need that or thinks that they do. People like me who just like to study strategy and psychology in general aren’t part of that target market. And I still don’t agree that he asks ppl to do and say exactly as I do and say. I can tell u havent read Neil Strauss’ book. U or the majority of the women on here commenting or that matter. He makes fun of pickup lines.

                      As far as there already being unwritten rules, they suck…lol
                      Not only that but they’re centered around traditional relationships and most of the readership isn’t looking for that. That isn’t hard to find for decent lookin men. These men wanna know how to consistently catch the attention of chicks they consider to be PARTICULARLY attractive and BED them so that they have the option of whether they wanna be her boyfriend or not. They need guidelines and should seek them

                    • http://pinchmycheekie.wordpress.com Cheekie

                      Eh, I don’t buy that unwritten courting rules are only traditional. Thats what makes them unwritten, they can change at any given moment. Whereas the ones like “the game”… well, they’re kind of set in stone. A lot of the ish in “the game” is pretty outdated in and of itself.

        • Asiyah

          I don’t consider myself smart, but I can see game from a mile away. I don’t laugh, I just feel sorry for the guy.

          FYI, the reason why I’m so “real” and blunt about my insecurities is precisely because of game. The more I see these lame ass dudes fronting like they are awesome, the more likely I am to counterattack by putting it out there that I’m lame, just like them. It’s counterintuitive, it makes no sense, it only hurts me, but hey, that’s how I rebel. I recognize all of those things, but so is game in general. Game only gets you in the door; it doesn’t keep you in the building. It always blows up in your face. That’s my way of showing them how stupid their game is. Stop fronting. I can see right through it, buddy.

          • Rewind

            The difference is you don’t mind being exposed. You’re ok with admitting flaws. Most human beings are not. Game, whether from men or women, are designed to hide the flaws and exude false bravado in an attempt to claim a position they could never take being themselves.

            I’m like you, I don’t feel like a supreme being, I feel like shyte 9 times out of 10 but I know I’ve worked hard enough in life to be worthy of some kind of respect. Therefore, when shorty is bullshytting, I call it out the gate as soon as I see it. No one likes being called a liar or hypocrite, but if it hurts that much, then clearly the truth has spoken.

            • Asiyah

              I actually mind being exposed. Just that I am a control freak who would rather do the exposing than risk someone else doing it for me. I’m more real (aka less blunt and negative) when I’m surrounded by people who don’t play games. But I am seeing now that this “game” thing y’all speak about may not be what I thought it was.

    • Breezy

      Haaaaa, what would be funny as heck is if O doesn’t post a comment AT ALL! Champ did give him a heads up yesterday and told him to clear some room in his schedule for today’s topic but O never responded to him.

      So methinks O might stay on the bench for this one and simply sit back on his leather sofa, wearing his smoking jacket with his legs crossed laughing at the comments or lack thereof today.

      • http://twitter.com/tylerg_thomas tgtaggie

        “I have many leather-bound books, and my apartment smells of rich mahogany.” – Ron Burgundy

    • http://verysmartbrothas.com The Champ

      “This was a post just made for Uncle O, wasn’t it Uncle Champ?’

      I mentioned yesterday in the comments that he should clear his schedule for today. Now, whether that means he’s canceling his office hours or not spending extra time in the prison weight room remains to be seen

      • http://pinchmycheekie.wordpress.com Cheekie

        LMAO, I haychoo.

  • ThatOneAKA

    Why I don’t care for game is that often it comes across as contrived. But a brotha who comes across as confident…boo here’s my number :)
    The key is to be able to differentiate “true” confidence from the pseudo-confidence that brotha decent game possesses…but that’s another topic.

    • ThatOneAKA

      I meant to type *that brothas WITH decent game…*
      Sorry, I need to go to bed

    • https://twitter.com/#!/mackaroto Jay

      Why I don’t care for game is that often it comes across as contrived.

      If it comes off as contrived then its not being done right. Game existed before a single book was written about game. If you’re a naturally confident dude that attracts women and you’ve never read a book about game then congratulations… you have game… NATURALLY. Its not like game was created then men started studying it. It has ALWAYS existed and now we’re smart enough to actually document what works and what doesn’t work. Its not that women aren’t that special its that NONE OF US are really that special. We’re all humans and we follow patterns even when it comes to mating. Game is just recognizing those patterns and using them to one’s advantage.

      • http://www.shay-d-lady.com shay-d-lady

        If it comes off as contrived then its not being done right. Game existed before a single book was written about game. If you’re a naturally confident dude that attracts women and you’ve never read a book about game then congratulations… you have game… NATURALLY. Its not like game was created then men started studying it. It has ALWAYS existed and now we’re smart enough to actually document what works and what doesn’t work. Its not that women aren’t that special its that NONE OF US are really that special. We’re all humans and we follow patterns even when it comes to mating. Game is just recognizing those patterns and using them to one’s advantage.

        and thats my point and thats why game has such a negative connotation, as i stated below for game to work correctly there has to be a certain” intrinsic” quality that cant be taught. I make million dollar sales for aliving, i can tell you how to do it but truth is everyone aint a sales rep…you cant take what i do and do it and get the same results.
        the same with game. now can i teach you how to find your own approach that might work better? sure are there some rules to this selling game to help you be the best you can be? sure but that dont mean you gone ever make a million dollar sale.
        but that dont mean you will ever duplicate my approach

        • Asiyah

          I agree with shay-d-lady and Jay.

    • http://verysmartbrothas.com The Champ

      “The key is to be able to differentiate “true” confidence from the pseudo-confidence that brotha decent game possesses”

      what’s the difference?

      • Justmetheguy

        @ Champ- The difference is that one still gives a f*ck about the outcome while the other has realized that winners have one rule. Never give a f*ck about the outcome. I tell people all the time, they call it game because it’s a competition. First one to give a f*ck loses. Those with real confidence have figured this out. The others are just going through the motions and pretending that their feelings aren’t hurt when they get rejected. The rest of us make fun of her for her bad decision lol

        • demondog06

          ” First one to give a f*ck loses. Those with real confidence have figured this out ”

          and there you have it folks…..

          • no comment

            “First one to give a F*ck loses” <————-THIS and I often have a f*ck to give but I recently got caught up and ended up with the short end of the stick or as Mel Fiona said on the wrong side of a love song. I hate the games and winners/losers mentality *sighs*

  • http://panamaenrique.wordpress.com Malik

    Ehhhhh. If a woman thinks she’s special by virtue of a man complimenting/pursuing her she has her head on backwards.

    • Anastasia!!!

      Completely agreed!

    • SweetSass

      I am WITH you.

    • https://twitter.com/#!/IluminatiNYC Todd

      The problem is that there are a lot of Moonwalking women in these streets, if you get my drift.

    • Breezy

      *wipes Malik’s comment with bleach and hot water FIRST before commenting*

      Totally agree with you. Its like chicks on FB who get all big in the head when a guy compliments their OBVIOUSLY-wanting-a-compliment picture and she takes it as OH he wants her….girl please…fall back…its a compliment….geeesh.

    • A Woman’s Eyes

      Amen, Malik.

    • sincereluv4life

      cosign

    • http://pinchmycheekie.wordpress.com Cheekie

      RIGHT. The idea ALONE that men compliment/pursue a bunch of women in any given hour means we ain’t special. No need for even going deeper with “how” they pursue. lol

  • Toria

    “it distills the art of courtship and seduction until it becomes a science — turning certain qualities that we (men and women) assume are natural into something that can be studied, copied, and ultimately faked.”

    This happens. Men do it. Women do it. That’s the problem. We assume these things are natural and should progress naturally but we spend an extraordinary amount of time and effort forcing things because we want them or others want them for us.

    Men usually throw game in the mix at the beginning. The air of arrogance (regardless of merit) is somewhat intriguing. Women claim to hate it, and some genuinely do, but tell me TRUTHFULLY that a fine man saying the same damn thing wouldn’t get your panties wet and then we can talk. The problem is that you don’t like the fact that level of “I’m the sh!t, you just don’t know it yet” attitude isn’t fitting with the man standing in front of you.

    Women are sneaky. They wait and throw game in when you least expect it. I don’t see how her faking orgasms to make him feel a lil better about his skills is in any way different than him sidestepping questions. It’s a means to and end right? Keep the other person intrigued. My mama always told me, “I think you’re special. The people who care about you agree. The world doesn’t. So you better work hard and prove yourself to be and change their mind.” She’s right.

    Too many people (men and women) wrongly think that they’re untouchable. You have a problem with him approaching you but what makes you think you’re too good to be approached by him? Majority of the time, game works. Dude puts on clean jeans and a smile and some chick is gonna follow him all over the club. If that’s not you, cool. But you can’t be mad at him for trying.

    Seduction is calculated. Every time. I know exactly what to say, what to wear, how to speak, how to dance to get exactly what I want in that moment. Compatibility is the part that should be a natural progression.

    • Thai

      “Seduction is calculated. Every time. I know exactly what to say, what to wear, how to speak, how to dance to get exactly what I want in that moment. Compatibility is the part that should be a natural progression.”

      YES. I agree with this. But you said in that moment. Does this mean…seduction is only temporary if it is calculated. What comes after seduction?

      • Toria

        To me seduction is temporary. Getting you intrigued and interested and where I want you is all about the moment.

        Defends on the person what happens after that. If we click things just flow naturally and things progress on their own. If not one of us works to make them progress until we figure out we’re not right for each other.

        • Thai

          Perhaps…we don’t think about the long-term enough. Steve Jobs said something about this but I think this may be why the game theory sucks major balls!

    • http://verysmartbrothas.com The Champ

      “I think you’re special. The people who care about you agree. The world doesn’t. So you better work hard and prove yourself to be and change their mind.” She’s right.

      good quote

      • http://pinchmycheekie.wordpress.com Cheekie

        That is a good quote.

        • demondog06

          damn good quote…

    • Asiyah

      “Women are sneaky. They wait and throw game in when you least expect it.”

      Sadly, I agree with this.

  • http://Blackgirlmd.wordpress.com Blackgirlmd

    I’ll be honest and say I’m not super familiar with game theory. But based on what I read here it sounds like that’s the ish I don’t like. it sounds contrived. I have dated some ppl where their whole alpha approach just seemed contrived. Because they had nothing to back it up. face it, if you’re short and pimply with bad hair, you have some issues. but if your 5 foot 3 inches self is a cool 6 ft something when standing on top of your wallet, now you got something. Attitude and self-confidence is definitely a big deal in attraction, but my advice (to anyone), is that they get to the root issue of why they lack confidence. Fix whatever you don’t like abt yourself, and your confidence will rise! Get better clothes, better breath, get a better job, a better degree whatever it is. Ppl might get mad, and say me and other women are shallow. Oh well. That’s what you get for tryna get a shallow person.

    • https://twitter.com/#!/IluminatiNYC Todd

      Attitude and self-confidence is definitely a big deal in attraction, but my advice (to anyone), is that they get to the root issue of why they lack confidence. Fix whatever you don’t like abt yourself, and your confidence will rise! Get better clothes, better breath, get a better job, a better degree whatever it is.

      Believe it or not, a lot of Game entails exactly of what you speak. Inner game fixes the confidence, and outer game fixed the clothes, breathe, and maybe even the job if the man is so interested.

      As Huey Freeman would say, “Read, Dummy!”

    • Rewind

      True true.

      The biggest issue when dealing with the interactions between men & women are the quality of people who choose to affliate with. You can’t say all women are the same when the women you usually attract are shallow and empty. We are responsible for who we attract and who we chase after.

  • http://twitter.com/kjnetic Sith King Jordan

    staying in the shadows on this one.

    but i’m putting in an imaginary bet that there will be 739 posts before 3pm.

    but 1 quick question..

    “Game” is for males, as “The Rules” is for females?

    or nah?

    • http://testorshia.blogspot.com Tes

      I say yes.

    • Anastasia!!!

      OMG, How you know about “The Rules?” In my group of girlfriends, we each had a partner and my partner and I kept check on each other and made sure we FOLLOWED All the Rules!! Those were fun times. And PEEP THIS:: That ish worked!!

      Lovez it.

    • SweetSass

      Pretty much.

    • Breezy

      Never heard of ‘The Rules”….ummm I feel lost….TES, Anatasia or SweetSass…anyone….. sharing is caring…fill a sister in please and thanks!

      • http://www.twitter.com/think2inspire Think2Inspire

        Thanks because I never heard of “The Rules” either.

        • Sweet GA Brown

          Neither have I. And I tend to keep my relationship business to myself and divulge important info only to those close to me.

      • http://testorshia.blogspot.com Tes

        The two rules women hear most often is “Don’t sleep with him on the first date*” and “Don’t date/sleep with/marry your girl’s ex**,” but those are seriously only the beginning. The Rules are the things that women bestow upon other women about common female courtesies, dating, sex and all other social interactions. I personally don’t follow too many of them as I feel they’re counter-intuitive and sneaky.

        *Unless he’s really “special” yada yada.
        **Until a third of the time they were together has passed and no interest on either party involved is expressed in the X. Personal rules may vary depending upon the closeness of the friendship, seriousness of relationship, yada yada.

        • Anastasia!!!

          Actually Tes, if I think I know what he’s talking avout “The Rules” is this book written by two women talking about all the things women must Some do to attract and keep a man. It’s the epitome of female game.

          Some rules include:

          1. Do not answer his first couple of phone calls. Let the voicemail catch it. Return his call on a 2/1 ratio.
          2. Do not accept weekend dates after Wed. You are jot a last minute snack.
          3. Never pursue a man. Ever.
          4. Don’t stay on the phone with him longer than 10min. Ever. If he wants to talk to you, he will schedule a date. But before Wed of course.

          It’s an interesting read. Men want a Chase, and this book encourages women to give the men who really want her the Chase.

          “All the rules”

          • https://twitter.com/#!/mackaroto Jay

            See, as a man I can look at those rules and see where they’ve been used on me. It makes me feel a little salty to see that maybe said female actually read “The Rules” and was following its tenets but… IT WORKED. I can attest that those things have worked on me so I will not begrudge ANY female for using what works. Thats the difference between men and women when it comes to game. It actually turns me on when a female uses game on me… even when I see through it. It shows that she feels strongly enough about me to have a gameplan and be strategic. Ladies put too much weight on spontaneity which can be a euphemism for LAZINESS.

          • http://testorshia.blogspot.com Tes

            Heard of the book, never read the book. The women in my family had it internalized and passed it down. Lucky me.

          • AfroPetite

            Do not talk on the phone for more than 10 min. You know what, I actually like that rule and shall consider implementing it. Some rules I can do without and will act accordingly.

            • http://www.todisspits.blogspot.com MicTheMessenger

              But if the convo is really good, that would suck because i have a bad memory.

              How about 20 minutes?

              • AfroPetite

                Nah, I’m sure the 10 minute limit is all about being elusive. If the conversation was good then it’ll be just as good the next day for another 10 minutes. If a man wants more than that allotted time to have a conversation, then he’d gain it in person via a date.

    • chameleonic

      550

    • http://twitter.com/kjnetic Sith King Jordan

      But.. “The Rules” are cool…

      and “Game” isn’t.

      I’m Zzzz-in’ tho.

      *turns off alarm*

      *goes back to sleep*

      • SweetSass

        No, The Rules are whack too.

    • http://www.shay-d-lady.com shay-d-lady

      what the he.ll is “the rules”?

    • Kema

      I had… “Why do Men Like B*tches” Basically said dont be a pushover.

      • Justmetheguy

        My sister has that one too Kema. You think I b!tched and moaned about it or told her to let it happen organically? Hayull no! I was like “respect, get a gameplan and go win”

        • Kema

          Some of us recognize the need for a little help. Really I was a bit of a pushover. I guess I was like the ‘nice guy’ in female form.

          The one thing I remember from the book (paraphrase) :

          Anything you chase will run away.
          If you chase a man he will have chex with you and then run away.

          lol! I needed to hear / read that at the time.

          • Justmetheguy

            “Some of us recognize the need for a little help.”

            Translation: Some of us are real/practical muhfuggaz, the rest of us are at best idealists at worst delusional and or disingenuous.

            But yep, it does work both ways as far as “chasing” goes. Women who give two sh!ts whether you wanna wife them or not have WAY less trouble “gettin wifed”.

            Like the joke with the two bulls talking. One bull was like “hey, let’s run down the hill and f*ck one of those cows.” The other bull replied. “I’d rather walk down and f*ck em all”. That second bull had the game figured out lol

    • That Ugly Kid

      See, I feel the same way about “The Rule” (the ones I know about) as a lot of women feel about “Game”. It’s not being yourself. F*ck a rule. You’re a grown azz woman. If I wowed you so much on our first date (like singlehandedly saved you by defeating 5,000 hungry T-Rex’s, barehanded, and blindfolded) that you want to smang my brains out, do it. If you’re feeling enough chemistry with me where you want to pick up the phone the first time I call, pick up the phone.

      I don’t like the fact that I’m being honest with my approach while you aren’t. Be yourself.

      • Asiyah

        Me and TUK are . What is it with all these rules? I think you should only have rules if you have an addictive personality and need to be a little more chilled. If you aren’t crazy, why adhere to said game/rules? You want to see him/her, do it. You want to talk for more than 10 minutes, do it. OMG. We have enough rules in life as it is.

        • Asiyah

          *are right here*

          • Marshal

            In a Perfect, Non-Original Sin world, everyone can just be themselves and non of this Rules and Game talk/action wouldn’tbe necessary

            But we don’t, sssssoooooo………

            • Asiyah

              After reading my comments I realize I’m like Che and just looking to rebel LOL. I have commitment issues so “rules” kind of creep me out haha

          • Nikki

            I agree completely. I have no use for rules, games, etc. This is who I am and if you don’t like it then get the hell on! Don’t talk for more than 10 minutes on the phone, don’t answer on the 1st ring, don’t have sex on the first date, don’t approach a man! It’s completely ridiculous! I will say the sex on the first date could be useful, but you have to know who you are dealing with. You can tell really quickly the who is really trying to get to know you versus someone who is just out to smash. And making a guy wait means nothing. I know a dude who dealt with a lady who finally gave in after a month and then as soon as she gave up the goods he broke out like a thief in the night. It was all about the challenge and obtaining the prize for him.

            I say stay true to yourself because should the relationship have some longevity that’s the person who will eventually come through. I would feel like I was a victim of a bait and switch if that were to happen to me. Besides it has to be exhausting pretending to be someone you’re not.

            *goes back into lurker mode*

        • Brother Mouzone

          + 1 million

  • That Ugly Kid

    I never understood, excluding obvious examples (like pick-up lines), what truly constitutes as “game”. As cliche as it sounds, I’m just myself. I know this may surprise all of you on VSB who take the time to read my comments, but contrary to popular belief, I like to joke a lot. I’m not the Serious Sam everyone thinks I am. World shattering. I know.

    In any social situation, I lighten the mood by joking and engaging in lighthearted convo. This includes dealing with women. No rehearsed lines, no real strategy other than “make her giggle”. But I’ve been told as recently as, literally, 2 minutes ago with the female I’m currently on the phone with, that I have an ENORMOUS amount of game. But…I’m just being honest. So what gives? Only Obsidian I suppose….

    • That Ugly Kid

      *Only Obsidian know I suppose….

    • nillalatte

      They lied to you. You’re not old enough to have game. You need to study a bit longer. Perhaps you can get Uncle O to sponsor you. lmao…

      • That Ugly Kid

        Not old enough?! I’ll have you know lil miss lady, that I am 22 years old and will be turning 23 very soon in January! You leave my age out of this! I can legally buy cigarettes and alcohol! Sure, I can’t legally buy a gun. Or rent a car. Or join the police straight up. But I’m old enough!

        • http://www.twitter.com/think2inspire Think2Inspire

          TUK are you an aquarius or capricorn? Not being able to rent cars suck! And if you slip through the cracks they make you pay your first born to get it.

          #teamunder25

          • That Ugly Kid

            The Alpha and Omega. The Beginning and End.

            I am Capricorn Here me….”Baah”? Because we’re half goat/half fish, right?

            #Teamunder25

            • Sweet GA Brown

              You could have let us guess. I can spot a Capricorn eMiles away. Its funny how good I am at that.

              • That Ugly Kid

                Lol guess? You had a 50/50 chance of getting it right seeing as how I already stated my birthday was in January. No. Being able to tell a woman’s EXACT cup size with only a 1 second glance at her chest, that’s a skill.

        • msdebbs

          wow I didn’t know you were that young…..it makes sense now.

          • Breezy

            Don’t do that to our Lil TUK.

        • nillalatte

          LOL… a lil touchy about yo’ age, huh? :D Muwah TUK.

        • Brother Mouzone

          *sniff, sniff*…..do I smell Similac??

    • http://testorshia.blogspot.com Tes

      Marilyn Monroe once said that if you make a girl laugh, you can make her do anything… I love a guy who can make me laugh, and I don’t know one woman who’s said “I don’t want a dude to make me laugh, this ain’t a comedy show” or something to that effect. So that whole “make her giggle” thing? Keep that up.

    • http://verysmartbrothas.com The Champ

      “In any social situation, I lighten the mood by joking and engaging in lighthearted convo. This includes dealing with women. No rehearsed lines, no real strategy other than “make her giggle”.

      That’s the thing. For some men, this comes natural. Game is taking that and giving it to men who it’s not natural for

  • Juicy Mango

    Now, adjourn your asses.

    Let me sit this one out, UNTIL the man of the hour makes his appearance!

    • Juicy Mango

      Special shourr ourrs to: Adonis, and my Yodie!!

      Let your words shine, slay and kill me!

    • http://verysmartbrothas.com The Champ

      lol, it’s funny how cats are waiting for obisidan to drop in. its almost like he should have an intro like “the bear jew” did in inglorious basterds

      • https://twitter.com/#!/mackaroto Jay

        Bear Jew has got to be top 5 most awesome character names in movie history.

      • Juicy Mango

        I’m sure he is not making the appearance just so we can suffer waiting!! BUT, I can assure you he has read this post, saved it, and sent it to all his pippoz in the Far East, Africa, Middle East you name it.