***whether its dating advice, wisdom, levity, or orgasms, we at verysmartbrothas.com will provide any service necessary to keep the peace and help to create a happier populace. with this, as well as the unstable economy in mind, we realize that luvvie and ms. sula can’t be prostitutes forever so we’ve decided to alert you to relevant job postings as well.
here’s one i found on craigslist this weekend.***
wanted:
black marriage public relations specialist
job description:
smartbroinc, a newly developed and uncommonly sexxy non-profit is searching for an extremely skillful pr person to lead their “marriage and sh*t is a good thing…really. no, seriously. no bullsh*t. word is bond” urban campaign, an attempt to reverse the increasingly negative and pessimistic sentiment held towards marriage and monogamy in the black community
job duties:
**successfully convince the 7 to 35 year old black population that marriage is a viable, positive, relevant, and essential institution.
**create and communicate detailed analysis of pro-marriage factual data, including (but not limited to) information about how married people and children generated by married couples are generally happier, healthier, wealthier, and less likely to stab your sister in the forehead with a kitchen knife because of a man than the general populace
**effectively explain exactly why the overwhelming prevalence of single-parent families, not racism, poverty, lack of quality education, gentrification, or kim kardashian is the single most pressing issue facing the black community today.
**find, synthesize, and communicate historical data that shows how successful marriages, and the dual incomes potentially generated by each household, have been a key ingredient in the ascension of every prominent racial and cultural community on earth in the past half dozen or so centuries.
**if questioned and challenged on the importance and/or historical relevancy of marriage, be equipped to explain each of the following points of information:
1. throughout history, slave-traders and slave-masters intentionally separated married couples because they understood that this was the most vital step when attempting to completely breakdown a community
2. up until 900 or so years ago, catholic priests were allowed to marry and have children. the vatican eventually disallowed this practice, though, when realizing that their vast wealth would eventually dwindle when the money and properties amassed by individual priests were passed on to their wives and children. even then, powerful and intelligent people knew that the best way for people to get and stay wealthy was through marriage.
**successfully debunk young blacks who use the 50 percent marriage failure rate as their sole argument against marriage by pointing out its inherent faultiness. (possible retort: “well, if you believe so strongly in statistics, why did you even bother going to college if only 23 percent of us have college degrees?.”)
**successfully debunk young blacks who use the laughably faulty and inane “monogamy is unnatural. no other animals practice it” argument as their case against marriage, by showing how truly idiotic it is to compare a rational and reasoning human being with a cheetah or chipmunk
if interested, please contact the champ at contact@verysmartbrothas.com.
hmmm. sounds interesting. any takers?
—the champ
the fact that single moms STILL don’t have it better in 2008 compared to in the 1960s [aka, strugglin just as hard] makes me want to work it out in my marriage and also figure out why they gotta make it so hard!!
where do i apply?
Marriage ain’t on my New Year’s resolutions, as that would be silly, although I’ve had one friend successfully do it.
That being said, one of my resolutions is to be first on VSB…
heh-heh
@Kit (Keep It Trill),
“That being said, one of my resolutions is to be first on VSB”
Oh, you can do it girl! It takes a minute cause you gotta get past Kamakula and Luvvie – but it CAN be done. (speaking as one who successfully did it, lol) I recommend a blog repellent cloak and an unsheathed dagger.
(late 70′s and early 80′s babies know about “cloak & dagger”, lol)
@RedBeanzNRice,
(late 70’s and early 80’s babies know about “cloak & dagger”, lol)
who could ever forget the great dabney coleman?
@RedBeanzNRice,
I thought I was the only one that remembered that movie. I loved the SR-71.
@RedBeanzNRice,
(late 70’s and early 80’s babies know about “cloak & dagger”, lol)
Dayum!!! I haven’t seen that ish in years!
Champ, why must you come at my head? (Maybe it’s because no one is coming at urs??? ZING!!!) Ol’ eggheaded Humpty self. Your great fall is LOOMING. Besides, my eBoyshorts are only for my eBoo, Kula.
@Luvvie,
lmao! zing, indeed!!
@Luvvie,
“Ol’ eggheaded Humpty self”
Ok Luvvie. You KNOW I luh you and sh*t, but you can’t be talkin faulty bout Champ’s big ass egg head like that. Yeah, it’s big, but it’s TANTALIZING and sh*t. Aside from that, it’s CHOCOLATE! You know how us girls need that chocolate on the monthly basis. Shew, I’d give my right eye for some chocolate during that “time” of the month. Yep, I went there.
@RedBeanzNRice,
LOL funny stuff…
but Champ that was wrong.
@RedBeanzNRice,
so, when i send you your payment, would you like a lump sum or a series of checks?
@The Champ,
“so, when i send you your payment, would you like a lump sum or a series of checks?”
No payment is required, just keep being you – that’s all the payment I need…a lump sum will be fine.
@Luvvie,
Besides, my eBoyshorts are only for my eBoo, Kula.
edeez
@The Champ,
edeez!!!LMBAO
@Hershey,
welcome and sh*t
@The Champ, do u keep a runnign talley of who comments? or is it done automatically or sumthin?
@the P the E the Y the S the O,
like roxy reynolds, its done in my head and sh*t.
@The Champ,
Of course it’s done in your head. That expansive space must be good for something. Wide open spaces looking head
What he say about Luvvie?? Oh no…I saw it. Dayum a strikethrough. I am not above going in my purse for something dangerous!!
As for the rest of this post, my position as VSB Cat Lady prohibits me from weighing in on either side of the great marriage debate.
@PBG, LOL! I’m a cat lady too at the tender age of 24…
@Ivy St.,
Okay now the Monkey moniker was a bit more obscure, but now cats!!?!!?!! You better go get you some 28 year old lovin for Christmas n the rest o yo life.
@WuDaMan, I’m working on it! 28yr old lovin? What can a 28rd old do with a 24yr old but sweat and pant? Keep up please!
*PS I only have two cats*
@Ivy St.,
Do the monkeys know about the cats? I’m sure that takes a lot of you to care for two cats. The kitty litter commercials lead me to believe this is true. And if you think a 28 year old is too tired for you then get you some 20 year old. Don’t be scared test yourself. Can you hang?
@WuDaMan, “then get you some 20 year old. Don’t be scared test yourself. Can you hang?”
LMAO! I don’t think I’ll take the test that far though I might really want to. Under 21 is NOT cool.
I didn’t tell the monkeys about the cats. They don’t like to share with other species.
Taking care of two cats is simple: leave bottle caps around for them to play with, feed them low fiber food (high fiber causes them to use the litter A LOT), and make sure they have water (cats are quick to cough up “stuff”). If you want to try out the cats, i can drop them off sometime.
@Ivy St.,
OH HEEEECKS NAW! I don’t need no cats other than me runnin round my apt. But *putting on crossroads for my fallen b!tch* I perfer dogs for pets. And why do I have a theory that cats are more represenative of men and dogs women? (based on certain terms some are bad)
Under 21 is NOT cool.
mmm hmm exactly what i tried to tell you!!!
@PBG,
I am not above going in my purse for something dangerous!!
is this a threat??
@The Champ,
No, a promise.
Don’t be scared…be prepared.
Oh yeah…threat DEEZ.
@PBG,
lol…what you and your infinitesimal fists gonna do? punch my nostril? beat me at thumb wrestling? pop a pimple?
LOL, I can’t.
@The Champ,
Not pop a pimple!!
i am hardly qualified for this position, as ive never witnessed a successful black marriage and am not entirely sure i can make one happen for myself.
@shatani,
My gramma and grandpa’s marriage lasted 54 years; since I was raised by them, I’m prone to making it work. But a SUCCESSFUL marriage is a horse of another color. Out of 54 years (God rest both of their souls) of marriage, I don’t know what would classify as “successful”.
Was it the fact that they stayed married so long, (even though it was a rocky marriage) or was it the fact that they raised 5 kids plus 3 grandkids together without separating?
Your comment begs the question of what really IS a successful marriage.
@RedBeanzNRice, nobody knows……
@the P the E the Y the S the O,
It’s Peyso (hold up) It’s Peysoooo
I couldn’t help myself. lol
@RedBeanzNRice,
Your comment begs the question of what really IS a successful marriage.
i guess “successful” is relative, but imo, it means healthy, positive, and mutually beneficial
@The Champ,
sort of a win win win. One for each party involved and one for the people who bear it’s wittness. @ least at some point or so.
@RedBeanzNRice,
Yeah, marriages form back in the day lasted, but sure weren’t neccesarily successful, because my grandparents have been together ovr 50 years, and my Uncle Reggie shole ain’t my grandma’s child… side-eye to grandpa….
@Relax, Relate, Alise,
“my Uncle Reggie shole ain’t my grandma’s child… side-eye to grandpa….”
D.E.A.D.
@Relax, Relate, Alise,
“my Uncle Reggie shole ain’t my grandma’s child… side-eye to grandpa….”
You know you wrong for that one, lmao!
@RedBeanzNRice,
I am being for real, my grandaddy brought that child home from the mama who didn’t want him and my grandma raised him….
@Relax, Relate, Alise,
But did he look like granpa though?
@Dom,
Spitting image, look like my daddy and all my uncles too… dont need maury for that one…
I have a question for the interviewer…
Using the logic that “powerful and intelligent people knew that the best way for people to get and stay wealthy was through marriage”, please explain to me right today what the economic, social, and moral benefit is of marriage, over the many alternatives?
@Dorian G., What are the alternatives?
@Dorian G.,
Economic – are you so caked up that an extra income wouldn’t make a difference to you? Daaang, bruh – let me holla at you for a minute, then…..
Social – I know my social calendar has slowed as I’ve gotten older and my “fun money” has magically morphed into “bill money”. Having someone to cuddle up with during the long winter is a bonus. Again, if you’re all good and still happy to party every weekend, this may not be relevent to you.
Moral – I can’t speak on a moral boon for married people – they can be just as trife as the singles. Point to Dorian.
So there is my semi-old person list of why marriage is looking better and better. That’s all I can think of off the top of my head – and p.s. D-dawg, what are your alternatives? Living together? Single for life? Pimpin’?
@Lil’T Got Work To Do,
Economic – are you so caked up that an extra income wouldn’t make a difference to you? ——–No extra income is always nice. But why do i have to get married to enjoy extra income from a partner?
Social – Having someone to cuddle up with during the long winter is a bonus.——-I agree. Again why is marriage the way to go about this? You know whats better than having a person to cuddle up with in the winter? Having multiple people to cuddle up with in the winter.
As for alternatives, the obvious one is just not getting married, there’s also living single and trying to build wealth that way, and of course you can always enter a legally binding situation with another individual like an LLC or a Corp and then detailing exactly what you want the relationship to entail financially.
“You know whats better than having a person to cuddle up with in the winter? Having multiple people to cuddle up with in the winter.”
Go sit down.
@Dorian G.,
But why do i have to get married to enjoy extra income from a partner? —
Ok, we call that pimpin’ where I come from. NTTAWWT, lol. And you know you have to brave the cold to find the several people you want to cuddle with this winter, unless you paid extra for booty delivery.
But – do you really think forming a small company with your SO is somehow LESS work than just getting married? Methinks not, young whippasnappa. I think you may change your mind when you meet the right one.
@Dorian G.,
“Having multiple people to cuddle up with in the winter.”
You are nasty.
@Dorian G.,
please explain to me right today what the economic, social, and moral benefit is of marriage, over the many alternatives?
1. compared to married people, the nonmarried have higher rates of mortality than the married: about 50% higher among women and 250% higher among men.”
2. married men earn 10-40% more income than single or cohabitating men
3. 40% of married people say they are very happy with their life in general, compared with less than 25% of single or cohabitating individuals
you can also check here…
http://www.acf.hhs.gov/healthymarriage/benefits/index.html
…if you need more data
@The Champ,
“2. married men earn 10-40% more income than single or cohabitating men”
What they don’t tell you is how little of that extra money the man actually sees.
@WestIndianArchie,
touche
@The Champ,
76-84% of single or cohabitating men say that they still get a joy out of sex where as married men remember sex like slaves remember days off, far and few inbetween the nonoff days. (made up stat but still close enough to the truth for someone to believe it)
@docdj23,
good sh*t. i’m a big fan of fabricated stats that seem like they can be true, except they arent.
@docdj23, well you dont get paid everyday (in taht you dont get that days wages in hand) at your job but you show up? If you think sex is the majority of a marriage issues then you shouldnt get married or even think about it and why be in a committed relationship anyway?…and who sayin the sex the single ppl having is good? (esp when your early 20′s)..when you are young you are somewhat more selfish this means in the bed too.
A lot of “no foreplay” sex being had for those under 30. IMO thats bad sex.
Now I aint saying marriage is “official” and cant be questioned however single life is in the same boat too.
@The Champ,
I know this is mad late so nobody is gonna read it.
But does statistics are inherently flawed. Before I go any further I think its safe to say that in our culture, generally a married man is A. most likely gainfully employed, B. most likely sought after, C. most likely old enough to take care of a family.
Those three things alone skews the stats so that married men would, live longer, earn more…etc.
Put another way, of the US prison population 90% of inmates are men, and 65% of those men are black. Therefore statistics tell us that the best chance of not being a criminal, is by being a white woman, but I’m sure most people would beg to disagree with that. We all know the underlying reasons behind the statistics, and we then know that the best chance of not being a criminal is to have money.
I think its the same thing with those statistics on happiness and marriage.
@Dorian G.,
Economic – See Guy Ritchie, Kevin Federline, etc. You also get tax benefits.
Social – companionship. support. encouragement. pooling resources & talents. etc.
Moral – not sure what your faith is, but i’m sure most religious texts consider marriage a moral institution. of course if you don’t believe in marriage then it negates any of that.
as for your alternatives… marriage is a legally binding situation. detailing what you want the relationship to entail finanically is a pre-nup.
Question for the interviewer. It is true that all the stats show that married people live generally better lives than unmarried people. My guess is that life-long coupling (NOT the specific institution of marriage) is the main ingredient that enriches these people’s lives. So what I mean to ask is why is marriage the only viable option to pledging your life to another person? Society offers options in pretty much every other important life event, so why not this one?
Thanks,
JH
@Jarrod Halsey,
Ask the gays!!
NOT “the gays”!!! lmao… or as i’ve been saying around my parental unit’s house full of small children “the h-o-m-o-s”
@Jarrod Halsey, but if you are pledging your life to each other why wouldnt you? why would you not want to marry both your hearts and your wealth or (lack thereof) why not take it to the next level? I mean for the insurance and tax breaks alone but let alone the fact that you know your (or should know) better than anyone else? would you want their mother to barge in and take your children or your house or determine funeral arrangements? I just dont get that if you are going to commit heart and soul whats wrong with taking it that extra step?
@Shay-d-lady,
That wasn’t my question. I didn’t ask “Why would I get married?” I asked “Why is marriage the only way to cement a life long coupling?” More specifically, why aren’t there any other ways to pledge your life to one person? While I’m all for life-long coupling, I don’t like to be controlled. Marriage being the only way to seriously commit yourself to one person (regardless of the benefits) makes me uncomfortable.
i think there are plenty of ways to “pledge your life” to one person. that on you* and your* partner. that’s yalls* business. it’s just not govt’ly sanctioned. and if you* want it so, write your congressman.
*global sense of “you”
@Jarrod Halsey,
“I asked “Why is marriage the only way to cement a life long coupling?”
Marriage isn’t the only way to cement a lifelong coupling; it’s just the only LEGAL way to do it. You can “cement” a lifelong coupling (between man and woman) but it’s only recognized as “shacking up”, except in states that constitute living together past 5 years as “common law” marriage. With same sex relationships, that logic is thrown to the wayside.
So again, it’s only considered “cement” if it’s LEGAL.
@RedBeanzNRice,
But that’s just not true. And marriage isn’t even THAT legally bounding, good lawyers work their way around marriage licenses all the time.
If you’re going to argue the legal ramifications, including taxes and insurance I would counter that there are other, better ways of doing that besides a marriage.
@Dorian G., argue them then
that’s what i’m waiting for. some good rhetoric, a well constructed and supported argument on these “other, better ways of doing that besides a marriage”.
@Dorian G.,
you raise some good points
@Dorian G.,
Sounds like you’ve been researching how to bullshyt your way through a committed relationship.
Kudos, good sir.
*shots fired*
@Dorian G.,
“But that’s just not true. ”
So what exactly about my comment is just not true? Please, expound and sh*t.
@RedBeanzNRice,
I agree with you RedBeanz. Marriage is a legal relationship that allows for the rest of the world (people outside of friends and family) to recognize that you and the person you are “shacking up” with are committed. It should prevent others from seeking a relationship with you as it shows you have committed to this person. YES, there are still immoral people out there who will try and ruin a marriage but that is another story. Look at marriag as a higher level of changing your facebook status from single to in a relationship.
@Ivy St.,
“Marriage is a legal relationship that allows for the rest of the world (people outside of friends and family) to recognize that you and the person you are “shacking up” with are committed.”
Exactly.
@Jarrod Halsey,
Marriage being the only way to seriously commit yourself to one person (regardless of the benefits) makes me uncomfortable.
well, if marriage isn’t your cup of commitment tea, what alternative(s) would you propose?
@The Champ,
Well there in lies the problem. I don’t know of any alternatives. But usually when I have a problem that I don’t know a solution to, I can research smarter people than I who have come up with the solutions to my problem. Not with marriage. This is where my discomfort comes in. Honestly, if there were other options, I’d probably still choose marriage. But the simple fact that no alternatives exist is one of the fundamental aspects of control/oppression. No one wants to be controlled.
And why is Dorian getting attacked? It seems like whenever people don’t want to get married, everyone else tries to make it seem like that person is wrong and its their job to convince them to get to the right answer. Another aspect of control. Marriage is looked at as the “right” answer and since no alternatives exist, anyone who doesn’t want to get married is “wrong.”
Wtf people?
@Jarrod Halsey,
if you’re worried about control, then that’s where pre-nups come in. i’m sure nobody wants to be controlled. but your argument makes no sense. if that’s the case, what are the point of living wills? i don’t want anyone controlling what i have worked hard for after i’m done, so i’m taking it all with me in the pine box. really? if you have a problem giving up control, then you may have control & trust issues yourself. not getting on you or dorian g… i just think we over-analyze things sometimes when it’s really just simple. you don’t want to get married? cool. don’t do it.
@SouthernCharm,
Yo are you serious? What argument did I make? I simply stated facts and asked for someone to to give me reasons for those facts. And because no one could, it instantly turned into a me issue. Even after I said I’d probably choose marriage anyways!
Wtf…
@SouthernCharm,
dude, you single? i’ve got the most gorgeous cousin and she’s brilliant too (MEng in Bioengineering)!… you need to be in the family. we will feed you plenty and keep you laughing. I’m all about deepening our collective gene pool
Jarrod i think you’re takin this way too seriously. ppl are entitled to their opinions and offer them for the sake of discourse. just becuz ppl don’t necessarily agree with you or Dorian “heyyy boo” G doesn’t mean ppl are attacking yall or yalls views. but neither of you have given hearty arguments AGAINST marriage, just not completely supporting marriage. once you do, then we can really delve into the convo. make it interesting.
@BBMO
Umm e-twin….don’t be trying to send SC anywhere but to DC…..where I live.
Thank you.
@Jarrod Hasley,
“Yo are you serious? What argument did I make? I simply stated facts and asked for someone to to give me reasons for those facts. And because no one could, it instantly turned into a me issue. Even after I said I’d probably choose marriage anyways!”
What facts did you present? You stated that the non-existence of alternatives is a fundamental aspect of oppression. I beg to differ b/c there is an alternative to marriage. It’s being single. Besides, oppression is using power to empower one group at the expense of disempowering another. That power is, at that point, corrupt. Marriage should empower both parties for the cause of the union. That union should be incorruptible. If one party is corrupt, that’s when the problems occur and you get oppression, control, infidelity, miscommunication, trust issues, and what have you.
@blackberry molasses
“dude, you single? i’ve got the most gorgeous cousin and she’s brilliant too (MEng in Bioengineering)!… you need to be in the family. we will feed you plenty and keep you laughing. I’m all about deepening our collective gene pool”
I have a girl. But, it is hard for me to turn down a good meal. lol
@SouthernCharm,
well if she ever stops feeding you…. j/k
make that work. i’m sure she’s a good girl, if she’s got a good guy
@Jarrod Halsey,
“I don’t know of any alternatives.”
That’s because there aren’t any real alternatives to marriage. Either you are married or you are not.
Choose.
@Jarrod Halsey,
“And why is Dorian getting attacked”
as a few people pointed out, i don’t see where dorian was being attacked. he asked a question (“please explain to me right today what the economic, social, and moral benefit is of marriage, over the many alternatives?”) and i answered it.
Outlaw Marriage, aggins love breaking the law!
I keed I keed
These Questions, although presented as a joke, always bring me down. I have not a clue on how to fix black America when it comes to marriage or college. I see my younger cousins acting a donkey and getting pregnant at 16 then again at 18 and wonder how people keep making their lives harder. I make good money and think I am too poor to raise a child, much less by myself.
… and wonder how people keep making their lives harder. I make good money and think I am too poor to raise a child, much less by myself.
i feel you on this. i’m in my 20s and in grad school and it seems like every time i meet some one not in school the first thing they ask (after my name) is if i have kids. and me sayin i’m in school and single doesn’t seem like reasons enough NOT to have kids to take care of. what can ya do??
@Gem of the San DiegOcean,
“and me sayin i’m in school … doesn’t seem like reasons enough NOT to have kids”
I soo feel you on this Gem. Though not directly the same thing, I always find men that think because they have their stuff together (an MBA) that I should be up and ready to have children with them… (hmmm) I’m in grad school!!! Please stop trying to make my life harder!
lol!!! like we should be signing up to be baby mamas for they i-cant-pay-for-the-1st-date a*ses…
@Gem of the San DiegOcean,
say it loud!!! and why are mofos tryin to impregnate me before they are tryin to marry me? that one baffles me! and then they act like im crazy cuz i dont just jump right on that?
@Gem of the San DiegOcean,
I feel you on this one, Gem. There is a HUGE disconnect when it comes to childrens and when to have them. It always seemed to be a randy and wayward man asking. Coming at me like, “You don’t have no kids? Why? Are you gay?” And I’m like, “You don’t have no degrees? Why? Are you stupid?” Hot azz bammas…
@Lil’T Got Work To Do, hahahahahahahaha
@the P the E the Y the S the O,
i second that emotion!!! LMAO!
*loves lil T’s bamas*
@shatani,
I thought everybody knew what a bamma was until I went away to college. Then it was sheer hell trying to explain to them what a “bamma” was….convo went like,
me: You are such a hot bamma!
2520: What’s a bamma? I’m not from Alabama
me: That’s not what it means. A bamma is a…bamma.
2520: Well, what makes someone a bamma?
me: Being bammafied. Check your mirror.
@Lil’T,
Everybody from the DC Metro area has this same conversation whenever we go more than 50 miles past the Capital Beltway. LOL!
@Lil’T,
im so mad at “check yo mirror”! lmao!!!
now you know better than to use the word in its own definition! you gotta come up with something, so us yankees know what a bamma is! lol
now, what is a bamma? how does one know if he is exhibiting bamma-like tendencies? i mean, other than you telling them! are there lady bammas? how does a bamma differ from, say, a scrub?
these are important questions, lil T….you gots to educate us!
@Lil’T Got Work To Do, “You don’t have no kids? Why? Are you gay?” And I’m like, “You don’t have no degrees? Why? Are you stupid?” Hot azz bammas…
LMAO!! Things like that is why I rarely go anywhere when I’m hme visiting my parents. Silly bama ninjas….
@Lil’T Got Work To Do,
And I’m like, “You don’t have no degrees? Why? Are you stupid?” Hot azz bammas…
when i first skimmed through this, i thought you typed “hot azz banana’s”, which would probably be even worse than a hot-ass bamma, imo. in fact, the next time i’m pissed at someone, i’m just gonna call em a hot ass banana
@The Champ,
Can I just side note for a second? I mistook a plantain for a banana the other weekend. Had it peeled and covered in Nutella, then took a bite and was like, WTF??!!??!? My b/f almost gave himself a hernia laughing, then called all his Haitian fam and had them rollin’ too. I feel like the black Jessica Simpson and sh*t.
@Lil’T,
In that moment, you were the Black Jessica Simpson.
Take that “L” like a woman, Sis. We all gotta do it every once in a while.
@PBG,
Take that “L” like a woman, Sis. We all gotta do it every once in a while.
and by “L” you mean “D”, right?
@The Champ
No. That’s not what I meant. Not at all.
@PBG, ^^^^^^^^^^^
Lies and deceit lol
@Lil’T,
“I mistook a plantain for a banana the other weekend. Had it peeled and covered in Nutella, then took a bite and was like, WTF??!!??!”
Why must I cry?!?!?
*CTFU!!!*
lmao!! lil’t i can soooo picture you actually answer that question that way.
@Lil’T Got Work To Do,
“You don’t have no degrees? Why? Are you stupid?”
I need to use that sentence in the next 23 days. Before the Inauguration.
Hilarity!
@Gem of the San DiegOcean,
feel you on this….
I’m no longer in grad school, but the same thing happens to me whenever I go back home to SC. Old high school classmates who either didn’t go to school or didn’t stay in school always ask me if I have any children. They don’t ask if I’m married or am I in a relationship. It’s sad that its the norm for a black woman b/t the ages of 23-28 to be a single mother.
@N.I.A. …., It’s sad that its the norm for a black woman b/t the ages of 23-28 to be a single mother.
or, it seems to be the norm in my town
@N.I.A. thebestintheworld,
well shoot…im glad im on the end of that range now and maybe folks who couldnt help me support a child will stop looking at me incredulously when i tell them i dont have none!
@N.I.A. ….,
“It’s sad that its the norm for a black woman b/t the ages of 23-28 to be a single mother.”
And here I was, thinking I was special all these years.
@PBG, you are special. What’s not special is black people automatically assuming a young black woman would have a child and not a husband. Point being, those poeple I know who ask me those questions don’t even consider marriage as a part of the equation.
It’s sad that its the norm for a black woman b/t the ages of 23-28 to be a single mother.
you right. it’s sad that we have so many single black mothers having to raise kids on their own, but its even more sad that its expected black women are NOT going to have anything more than a “baby daddy”… and actually the main ppl who ask me if i have kids are other women! and be shocked as hell when i say i don’t.
them: you don’t have any kids?!?!
me: no
them: really?!?!
me: i’m not married…
them: *blank stare*
me: and i’m in school…
them: *blank stare*
me: i have lazy ovaries and occluded fallopian tubes
them: ohhhh ok *nodding*
@Gem of the San DiegOcean,
The same d*mn thing happens to me. And the chicks who ask me usually have a baby daddy, and act like a husband and marriage is some new and novel idea. But the men are the same way, accept they seem to be pleasantly surprised while the females look at me like I’m crazy
@N.I.A. thebestintheworld….,
i havent come across any females in this genre….pretty much every female i know these days has no kids and the couple that do are actually married! go figure! lmao…
i will say that here in philly, while the men are pleasantly surprised there are a bunch who take a while to get there cuz they just can understand how it came to be that im old as i am and dont have no kids….i finally had to tell one dude, “ive just been very careful with my genitals” he dropped it after that.
i never thought id see the day that being childless would make me like an exhibit at the museum of natural history!
@Gem of the San DiegOcean,
i’m in my 20s and in grad school and it seems like every time i meet some one not in school the first thing they ask (after my name) is if i have kids.
do the convo’s go something like this:
mba: “what’s your name?”
gem: “gemmie”
mba: “nice to meet you, gemmie. damn…you got some child-bearing ass hips. you got any babies??”
Well, sometimes its this:
Asshole: 8th Wonder, how old are you?
Me: 25.
Asshole: Oh okay, how many kids do you have?
Me: *blinks* NONE.
Asshole: Oh, I just assumed…..
I have had that conversation with people more times than I care to admit. And I can’t even make it a racial thing and act like its 2520′s asking me that based on some sterotype of young black women, its EVERYONE.
At my age, children are scary @ me, so get the hell outta here with that.
@8th Wonder,
I’m sending Ike n’ Tina to your house to haunt you for the holidays.
But if you’re brave and use your outside voice on the inside, you can get them to take out your garbage and wash your dishes.
@PBG,
so Ike n’ Tina goin to Ocho Pan’s.
I got a twister game some chicken wings bourbon and tequila and a bootleg of 7 lbs even better yet ‘Yes Mam I mean Man’. What up?
“so Ike n’ Tina goin to Ocho Pan’s.”
The hell they are, LMAO!
@WuDaMan,
Look @ my eBoo trying to lure me w/liquor and chicken wings. He knows me so well…
And Aif Wondra! Don’t let me find out where your house is…they will be on your porch with a bag of chicken nuggets and Guitar Hero…for your listening enjoyment.
I ain’t got no porch.
@ Aif Wondra,
You do know my kids don’t necessarily need a porch to get in your house, right?
@PBG,
I declare you is raisin them kids right!
I ain’t got no house.
@The Champ,
actually, when men ask me if i have kids, i think it’s like a standard question since most of the women they typically meet are single mothers. and they seem relieved when i say “no”. women, on the other hand, look at me like i’m some mutated freak when i say i don’t have kids.
and don’t let them see the pics of my nephews on my phone. like they discovered a secret–YOU DO HAVE KIDS!!! *smh*
@Gem of the San DiegOcean,
“and don’t let them see the pics of my nephews on my phone. like they discovered a secret–YOU DO HAVE KIDS!!! *smh*”
Seriously, who is hiding their kids?? Either you have them or not. There is no evil or abnormality in either situation. It “just is”.
*smh* right along with you.
exactly. i no longer make the mistake of assuming most ppl have common sense. becuz well, it’s not all that common, apparently.
Marriage is a beautiful thing. That’s why I don’t get why so many guys look at it as such a bad thing. I’m not married yet, but I have witnessed many great marriages. My mom passed away, but my parents had a very strong marriage. One of my aunts and uncles have been married for over 35 years, very happy, and I can really see the impact on their 4 children who have very high self esteems, very happy, and great relationships.
@Leila,
I am a guy who is extra soft when it comes to marriage. I want to get married but seriously the fact that I only date black women finding one who is around my age (25) with no kids and no daddy issues and is somewhat attractive is a hard thing.
@James Nantucket,
well with the state of the black family today, daddy issues are almost par for the course. thats gonna be a rough hurdle to uh…hurdle? lmao
@shatani,
LOL yeah I am looking for that partial daddy issues. No daddy but they had a cool uncle who had a good family. Partial daddy issues are my goal!
@James Nantucket, im on the same plan. i’ll even take if u had a good god daddy or a good neighbor
@the P the E the Y the S the O,
i’ll even take if u had a good god daddy or a good neighbor
**guffawing**
@James Nantucket, I must have been under a rock or something, is it that hard to find a woman who doesn’t have daddy issues?
@James Nantucket, do you live in Detroit?
@James Nantucket, exactly why we should be pro marriage!
@Shay-d-lady,
I totally agree with you we should be pro marriage. Tired of broken homes, daddy issues, no father figure for men to mimick, bad kids in schools who don’t fear fatherly butt whooping.
@ overit
LOL no, Detroit is one of those places like LA that I never want to visit because of all I hear about it. From TV there are like 3 jobs and 1 million people there
@James Nantucket,
plus i have it on good authority that its mad cold in the D.
@shatani,
If I could find a woman half as good as T-Baby I would wife her in a second. Orange weave and Orange shirt?! Yall broads should learn a thang or 2 from her.
@James Nantucket,
some of us broads did!
“Yall broads should learn a thang or 2 from her.”
I did.
* The cold in the D enhances birth defects, much like the one T-Baby suffers from.
* If you’re going to make a somber video, make sure you tell your friends to be somber too, not horseplaying and sniggling in the background.
* Being able to hold any kind of note is always optional.
* So is knowing the words to your own song.
@8th Wonder
* The cold in the D enhances birth defects, much like the one T-Baby suffers from.
* So is knowing the words to your own song.
Those made me choke on my delicious cheese grits. *sighs*
la is whack. the diego is where it’s at!!! *c-walking*
@Gem of the San DiegOcean,
“la is whack. the diego is where it’s at!!! *c-walking*”
Funny how you say that, when “c-walkin” came from where? wait for it… L.A. Recognize.
Proves my theory that San Diego is nothing but a bunch of biters – bottom line.
SD only strives to be what LA alread is.
@Gem of the San DiegOcean
“SD only strives to be what LA alread is.”
I meant to said ALREADY is. The edit ran out, lol
lmao!!!!!!! umm yeah ok. delusion is a muthafugga.
@Gem
“lmao!!!!!!! umm yeah ok. delusion is a muthafugga.”
I know right? That’s why I had to let you know how whack SD is – you’re delusional. Glad to be there for ya. ; )
cute. but i think you need a psych evaluation. i know lots of MDs who would be happy to conduct one for you.
*in best Ron Burgundy voice* GO F*CK YOURSELF, LOS ANGELES!!
@James Nantucket, My problem is that I meet guys with daddy issues too. They didn’t have a good role model growing up and it creates a lot of problems. I can see how not having a father figure really affects them, but I’ve seen guys overcome that. My dad is the best example. His father was an alcoholic and a womanizer, but my dad was the exact opposite. He made sure that he set a good role model for us.
@Leila,
often times, mens daddy issues arent recognized as such….which i think does them a great disservice because then they go on and perpetuate the cycle.
@shatani,
often times, mens daddy issues arent recognized as such
good point (and potential future vsb topic)
@James Nantucket,
*waving at James*
I don’t have daddy issues but you might have to wait for me to finish up grad school…it’s just another 3 years). Don’t worry, I’ll still be in my prime then…
@James Nantucket,
Where do you live??? You need to move out STAT!
@James Nantucket, really? are you actually in nantucket, cuz that could be your problem right there…
and here i am thinking it would be hard for me as a 25 year old black woman to find a single, hard working man with no kids
@Leila,
“…and I can really see the impact on their 4 children who have very high self esteems, very happy, and great relationships.”
That’s great and sh*t, but personally, I don’t think that’s BECAUSE of their marriage; it’s because of their parenting.
You can be separated parents, yet still have children that possess those same traits you mentioned.
It’s what you INSTILL in your children that make the difference. Two good parents, together or not, who work together to raise said children, are more likely to foster upstanding, self-loving, mentally balanced children. The same can be said for the single parent; it’s how you raise the children – bottom line.
@RedBeanzNRice, i agree
@RedBeanzNRice, I agree with you that the children can still be happy with separated partents, but I also think being in a household with 2 loving parents also sets up a good role model for future relationships. When you grow up in a household with happy parents, it sets a good example for what a healthy relationship looks like.
@Leila,
“but I also think being in a household with 2 loving parents also sets up a good role model for future relationships.”
That’s true also. It’s optimal, but not absolutely necessary.
@Leila, or you could know that you’re going to do everything opposite of your parents
@the P the E the Y the S the O, Easier said than done. I’ve seen a lot of guys really try hard not to be like their fathers, but turned out exactly like them. The problem is that if you grow up a certain way, it’s hard to change when you’re older unless you really put in a lot of work.
@Leila,
in response to “That’s why I don’t get why so many guys look at it as such a bad thing.”
In my travels I have encountered many married men. There are some of those that will say the same thing u said (marriage being a beautiful thing) but in the same sentence they will vent to you about all the turmoil they encounter in their marriage. Plus married men often speak on the things (they say) u have to do and give upwhen you get married. The picture they paint is far from a pretty one. At my job now I hear every few days from men (of all ethnicities) about how I should stay single as long as possible or the horror stories of their divorces or the things they have to do or not do to make their wives happy. I know I dont walk in their shoes and that their misery is not my misery but to hear such negativity about being married constantly from men since I was too short to see the kitchen cabinet I know why most men dont seek marriage with the enthusiasm women do. Its looked at in the same light as going to the dentist to get wisdom teeth pulled. Its not something you will enjoy and it can be very unplesant but its something you may have to do eventually so you may as well just suck it up and take it and if you can aviod it as long as possible. I’m not sayin I am against it (it would be nice to get the tax break), I just don’t romanticize it or see it as any instant solution to our social problems. It is what it is.
@Deviant,
“I know I dont walk in their shoes and that their misery is not my misery but to hear such negativity about being married constantly from men since I was too short to see the kitchen cabinet I know why most men dont seek marriage with the enthusiasm women do”
thing is (and i’m guilty of this as well), we’re conditioned to talk negatively about relationships (in public at least), regardless of happy we might be in them. obviously, i’m speaking in general terms, but, seriously, how often do you hear any guy speak about the positive aspects of any romantic relationship we’re in? in this regard, most of us aren’t that far removed from al bundy, who’d spend 22 minutes a week for eleven years fantasizing and b*tching about his wife and kids…even though he knew that they were the best things about his life and sh*t.
point being: in this regard, alot of us are full of sh*t
@The Champ,
if this comment was a guy and i wasn’t already married…. the things i would do to it… good lawd.
@blackberry molasses,
well, since im single i can do those things on both our behalf!
@shatani,
oooooh Watch Out Now!
*singing Man Eater– the original, not that Nelly Furtado mess**
“Ohhh, here she comes! Watch out boy, she’ll chew you up! Ohhh, here she comes! She’s a Man Eater!!”
*sigh* my silliness gets me through life. LOL
@blackberry molasses,
““Ohhh, here she comes! Watch out boy, she’ll chew you up! Ohhh, here she comes! She’s a Man Eater!!”
Sang that song girl! Hall and Oates are the bomb – still to this day! Hell, I was just singing “Sarah Smile” the other day, lol
Where do I sign up? I think the whole “I dont believe in marriage thing” is another example of when a little education is dangerous? you know kind of like black folks that go to college and decide that because of the electoral college thing that voting for the president is stupid. I used to be one of them..I used to think that it was grown up and mature to realize that men will be men and will never be able to commit to one woman and therefore I shouldnt expect it…but then I dont believe in open relationships, I do believe in commitment and mind of body, I do believe that if I want to have children there should be a committed relationship there with the father. I do believe that 2 is better than 1 in most all instances, that marriage could help end generational poverty…Marriage is the ultimate commitment and when done correctly, yes its hard, and forever is a long time but its definitely something we should all strive for..,,
@Shay-d-lady,
Where do I sign up? I think the whole “I dont believe in marriage thing” is another example of when a little education is dangerous? you know kind of like black folks that go to college and decide that because of the electoral college thing that voting for the president is stupid
lol…seriously, when ranking “ages that consistently produce the worst people”, “the 21-24 year old recent college grad” would list just below “middle school kids”.
Whoever takes this job will need a large salary since they will probably be working more hours than investment bankers…if there are any of those left at this point. Fortunately for me, all the people immediately around me believe in marriage and intend to be married. Unfortunately, a lot of those people around me have witnessed or heard of pretty crappy ones.sigh…
@Slim Jackson,
all the women around me believe in marriage and whatnot. i cant say the same for the men, though….not the black men, anyway.
@shatani, come to think of it. I can’t see myself being married…yet. It makes me feel uncomfortable. I do believe in it though.lol.
@Slim Jackson,
i can get on board with that…i would like to be married one day. but today? nah…im still far too selfish for that.
I can’t say that we should all strive for marriage because the bottom line is, Marriage Isn’t For Everyone.
If it’s not right or comfortable for someone, society shouldn’t try to curve that or have the person labeled an outcast based on the fact that they don’t want to get married.
My parents have been together for 3 decades and I’ve seen their marriage and a few others work.
To reiterate, marriage is just not for everyone.
@Monk,
“To reiterate, marriage is just not for everyone.”
Amen. I hate to sound all religious and sh*t, but in the bible, being unmarried is referred to as the GIFT of singleness.
Why is it a GIFT? There ya go, lol.
@RedBeanzNRice,
And cexx is refered to as God’s GIFT to married people. It is a relative situation. A buttler may be a gift to someone who is balling out of control. But for someone who is less $ endowed and used to managing their own affairs they would be a curse.
@RedBeanzNRice,
In the Bible every gift comes with a responsibility. The gift of Salvation comes with the responsibility of sharing the Gospel. The gift of wealth comes with the responsibility of taking care of the less fortunate. The gift of s3x comes with the responsibility of lifetime commitment to that person (i.e. marriage. The gift of singleness comes with the responsibility of… wait for it… LIFELONG CELIBACY.
Be careful what you ask God for. Make sure you can handle His gifts.
@blackberry molasses,
Get it Sunday School Scholar. I Agope style <3 you.
@WuDaMan,
I have mad Agape and Philios for you too, Wu
@blackberry molasses,
Oooh don’t make a Christian boy blush. *piddling toe in a circle on cube floor* I know some people are proud of you. & I bet your Hubby gets his shout on daily.
@blackberry molasses,
chuuch!
@blackberry molasses,
BBMo’ is about to get hired by the Prayer Cubicle. Gotta rep for our Catholics!
@PBG,
hire me! Jesus be a side-hustle!!!
my liturgical dance brings all the ushers to the altar…
alright, imma stop now
I just died.
@8th Wonder,
Stop it! Right now! It’s my turn to die.
* *
_
How you gon’ tell me to stop dying so that you can die?
Its all about Wu-boo.
Only it isn’t!
@8th Wonder,
Girl I just saved yo life! That’s the thanks I get. *placing oil on hand & grabbing Ocho Pan by the forehead* PBG get the holy water & lap napkins. First you ain’t gon give back to the chilren and then you gon be an ingrate. I will cast the Jim Jones out o U. LOL
Mayne, if you dont get your dime store evangelistic arse off me, RIGHT NAH…we gon have some problems.
putting crisco on my forehead and ish, wth is wrong with you…
@8th Wonder,
mah bad Ocho Pan. Must have been the spirits, cuz I’m full of it. And watchin you too can be a preacher by Rev. Lonnie Love
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MdS3SXb2ABo
@blackberry molasses,
I’m doing the deputy dawg desk wheeze again!
BBMo, this is why you are SEXXY and you are my shero
@Gem of the San DiegOcean,
thanks Gem of the SDO!!! *big ole cheesin country girl smile*
lol @ sdo
@RedBeanzNRice,
Paul speaks on marriage extensively in his letters to the Corinthians and the one thing I remember most about the theme of his ruminations is that he said that marriage is for the strong. You can’t be weak in mind or spirit as a married person. I remember how he made references to “marriage not being for him, but if YOU want to do it, then this is what you do…”
And you HAVE to have faith, both of you. You cannot be disconnected from the divine and think you will have a successful marriage.
@PBG,
TALK ABOUT IT! What is the strongest type of rope. A… three stranded rope. This is true in nature as well as relationships. Pyramids ropes n I bet there is some more to this. (but um I think it was in Corinthians also where people supposed to be called out for the evils that they do. I’m not saying I know anything about anybody but it shouldn’t go unchecked if somebody know. Vengeance is mine said the Lord)
@WuDaMan,
“I think it was in Corinthians also where people supposed to be called out for the evils that they do.”
Duh…lol. That’s why Paul had to write to them. Not once, but TWICE!!
@PBG,
I declare I E <3 you so hard. lol BTW I love them chicken wings too they was my fav before I got all big and needed more sustenance (I had to switch to thighs [they have lots of flavor not a lot of sinew]) One time I seasoning marinated some wings dredged em in seasoned flour then drenched em in a seasoned egg wash and dredged em in the flour again and deep fried em. Made me want to eat the bones!
And you HAVE to have faith, both of you. You cannot be disconnected from the divine and think you will have a successful marriage.
yall just a preachin up on VSB today!!! *waving church fan* i love it
@Monk, “Marriage Isn’t For Everyone.”
Is it really that marriage isn’t for everyone or is it that you just have to find that one that “does it” for you. Recently a single man told me that he wasn’t looking for a relationship. I could respect that but in my mind, I felt that this man, though not looking for a woman, wouldn’t let a good woman pass him by. It’s one thing not to force a marriage (i.e not doing it just for the sake of doing it or “conforming”) but it’s another to not marry because you just don’t agree with the institution (a commitment issue).
@Ivy St., how can any single anything can be for every single person?
@the P the E the Y the S the O,
I know the term marriage is a single thing (word), but what I take from a marriage or how I am in a marriage can be completely different from you in a marriage. So marriage, just like anything, is what YOU make it. It is tailored to YOUR needs, wants desires etc. It’s your creation along with the other person in it of course. You just have to find that person willing to go that route with you. There are no specific laws to say how it should work besides fidelity. So it isn’t really a single thing in my mind. We can ALL be married but have completely different yet “successful” marriages. It’s possible and practical.
@Ivy St.,
“I know the term marriage is a single thing (word), but what I take from a marriage or how I am in a marriage can be completely different from you in a marriage”
lol, i’m sorry, but you completely lost me with this one. that comment went over my head so quickly that it gave me whiplash
@The Champ,
I figured it was unclear… monkey work can mess up neuron firing patterns.
I’m saying the term marriage is SINGLE not plural but everyone has or can have a different experience with it even though it is a single term.
Clearer: Though marriage is a single term it can have many outcomes or meanings. This depends on who is in the marriage.
@The Champ,
I think what she was trying to say is that there is the monlithic social idea of marriage and how it should go for everybody. However, given that people are so different, it is entirely expected that Marriage A will be different from Marriage B. Thus, using other people’s situations (outside of fulfillment of basic vows) as your yardstick to measure your marriage’s success is a recipie for disaster.
using other people’s situations (outside of fulfillment of basic vows) as your yardstick to measure your marriage’s success is a recipie for disaster.
BBMo speaks truth!
thanks Gemmie.
Erry once in a while, the Good Lord hits me on the head with a nugget of truth, and I decide to keep it.
@blackberry molasses,
thanks and sh*t
@Monk,
I agree with that setiment that marriage is not for everyone, because there are some folks that just need to leave the institution alone. Some folks in their lifetime will never be mature enough to handle a real relationship, let alone a marriage. Yet those are the main people that get married and ruin it for everybody else that is ready and sincere.
@Relax, Relate, Alise,
Don’t make me use this! *holding up an English purple squirrel* (no worries it’s work safe) http://www.dnaindia.com/report.asp?newsid=1216052
Why would anyone born of a mother not be worthy of I hope you meant the sentiment of marriage? And why is maturity the defining factor for readiness? I mean if someone could just be mature enough they could be ready for all that is good for to by (and all the other prepositions) them. Sorry But I want this recapitulated retort jettisoned from the blog.
@WuDaMan,
Oh h3ll no! I don’t believe it! They need to get a picture of this alleged “purple squirrel”. A picture and the entire congregation of Greater New Hope Baptist Church.
@PBG,
http://www.thesun.co.uk/sol/homepage/news/article2060976.ece
@WuDaMan,
maturity is not the defining factor, i just was adding that alot of people enter into it without the maturity to maintain it…. my sentence jsut aint flow right, tis all…. how dare you threaten me with wonky creatures….
@Relax, Relate, Alise,
I heard it on Good Morning America this morning and couldn’t wait to say something about it.
@Monk,
To reiterate, marriage is just not for everyone.
i agree. thing is, it seems like the overwhelming sentiment among us seems to be that marriage isnt for anyone. this is why the pr position is necessary.
@The Champ,
I say that marriage can be for any and everyone. It’s just in the life timing of the individuals involved. Which according to the win win win stance I posted up thread. Requires a communal effort.
@WuDaMan,
*high five WuDaMan*
I agree that marriage can be for any and everyone.
@WuDaMan,
II Corinthians talks about believers being w/other believers. No harmony between Christ and The Devil.
That’s not to say that those who don’t believe are evil. At least that’s not what I think. I think its that people who are on the same page are the ones who need to get together. Don’t get with somebody thinking you can sway them to your beliefs.
@PBG,
Of course there will be some similarities in the people that get married. But Jesus said to Legion or was it to the Pharacies that how can a house divided stand (speaking to the enmity between evil powers). I think Paul also said that if a believer be okay with marrying a non-believer than let them be married. Now my statement has a time frame to it as people are dynamic. After all the heart in one beat can love someone and in the next wish them damnation. But @ some point in people’s lives they may be of a certain mind body and heart set that they would be fit for their mate. There are more dynamics involved (their mate their communal support). But it is so a possibility. The odds of a woman getting pregnant are incredibly stacked against getting pregnant but it happens all the time (miracle dust).
@WuDaMan,
Amazingly I completely got this! Again, mad Agape and Philios Wu.
@blackberry molasses,
I’m still working on getting it. Sometimes Wu baffles me. But I know there is something in there somewhere.
@WuDaMan,
“I say that marriage can be for any and everyone. It’s just in the life timing of the individuals involved. Which according to the win win win stance I posted up thread. Requires a communal effort.”
i still disagree.
…
I think…nevermind. I’m tired. Back in the morning.
First off – Welcome back Champ! Secondly…
Damn it Champ! How many times have I told you to stay off of Craigslist? You don’t listen, and as a result we are forced to respond this this BS post, lol.
ON THIS: “your possible retort: “well, if you believe so strongly in statistics, why did you even bother going to college if only 23 percent of us have college degrees?.”
That’s only assuming that the 50 percent who wage war on marriage even went to college. That percentage could have possibly been the result of those in broken homes that never even stepped foot on a college campus.
So yeah, I think your post is cute – but not factual in any way, of course. Uncommonly “sexxy” was the first clue, lol. You and Panama are the only ones that use the double X.
@RedBeanzNRice,
dont tell p-jams, but i been rockin the dos equis since i was 12! shhhh!
@shatani,
Not the dos equis – I LOVE those commercials, lmao! But why were you drinkin at age 12?
I can’t fault you cause my no-good uncle gave me sips of beer when I was 4 – that damn degenerate.
I still love him and sh*t, but damn – FOUR..really??? Jeez.
@RedBeanzNRice,
wow…you took that train WAY off track! lmao! dos equis = 2 x’s ….as in sexxy! but thank you for that cautionary tale though!
@shatani,
“wow…you took that train WAY off track! lmao!”
Yeah, I know about the XX and dos equis, but sorry – I’ve been drinkin. Oops and sh*t, lol
@RedBeanzNRice,
ON THIS: “your possible retort: “well, if you believe so strongly in statistics, why did you even bother going to college if only 23 percent of us have college degrees?.”
That’s only assuming that the 50 percent who wage war on marriage even went to college. That percentage could have possibly been the result of those in broken homes that never even stepped foot on a college campus
i was just trying to convey how inane it would be to structure our lives around stats that say because of your (insert “race”, “gender”, “class”, etc), you shouldnt even attempt to perform certain tasks. but, many people use this same line of thinking as their main argument against marriage.
Yeah, I have nothing to say to this, just plain ridiculous.
@J. McFly,
please expound
Um…okay? *sniggling*
Craigslist=the cesspool of the universe, right after Black Planet…lol
@miss t-lee, i hate to say it but myspace is a close third
@the P the E the Y the S the O,
why do you hate to say it? it is
@Deviant, b/c I have a myspace page smh
@the P the E the Y the S the O,
I agree, and I have a myspace page…lol
You have a good idea but I think that marriage already has a PR firm. I remember seeing billboards around DC/MD that said stuff like, “Married People Earn More Money”, “Married People Save More on Taxes”, etc. Think it was a church that put them up.
Marriage is kind of like childbirth to me – mysterious, beautiful and very scary. There are a lot of long marriages in my fam – neither my folks nor their siblings got divorced. But I saw first hand how much work it was.
And I read an article a few years back that said men benefit from marriage more than women. Married men live longer than single men – but single women live longer than married women. hmmm….
I think if you want to have a good pr campain for Black marriage and effective parenting just assign folks to work in the schools for a day. Then have them play my favorite game – “Guess Who Doesn’t Know Their Daddy”.
@Lil’T Got Work To Do, i think a better game is “Guess Who hasnt seen Daddy in a few years”
@Lil’T Got Work To Do,
And I read an article a few years back that said men benefit from marriage more than women.
this is true…which flies in the face of all anti-marriage sentiment and mythology
@The Champ,
yep, married men live longer and are, on the whole, healthier than single men…
on the flipside….married women have shorter lifespans and are generally less healthy than single women….
so, really its a fully beneficial situation for the man and not so much for the woman. and yet, they are the ones that seem to be the holdouts! lol
@shatani,
And to counter this…men in polygamous marriage tend to live longer than those in monogamous realtionships. Did you all check that memo?
@CPT Callamity,
you know that polygamous societies actually benefit women more than men, right?
@Lil’T Got Work To Do,
“And I read an article a few years back that said men benefit from marriage more than women.”
My mother always told me that men don’t know it, but marriage is for THEM, not us.
My godfather stayed married (and is still married) the longest out of him his 3 brothers… none of them made it past age 65. He just turned 67 on Thanksgiving. Him and my godmother have been married for 45 years and still act like a couple of teenagers. I aspire to that kind of a marriage.
@blackberry molasses,
awwww! me too!
@Lil’T Got Work To Do,
“Marriage is kind of like childbirth to me – mysterious, beautiful and very scary.
I’ve done both and I promise you, childbirth is easier. But you can’t divorce the kids.
Catch 22. *smh*
Based on what I just read, Champ is the best man for the job.
I agree with EVERYTHING you asserted. I was raised by a single mother, and although she did a magnificent job raising me (seriously, people tell her she did a better job alone than most people could do as a couple) it was incredibly challenging for her and she never would have done it alone if she didn’t have to. I could never do what she did and I wouldn’t dare try. Even my father has no problem commending my mother on doing such an outstanding job, and regrets that things worked out the way they did. Wife before mother is my rule, and I’m standing by it.
@Voiceofreason,
I agree with EVERYTHING you asserted
this proves that you’re definitely a voice of reason and sh*t
vsb.com: where very smart people agree with the champ
@The Champ,
Stop riding yourself! It’s not sexxy!
Who else is gonna ride him?
@8th Wonder,
Y’all are funny.
@8th Wonder,
Good Point!
@8th Wonder,
The score–
e-twin: 2
Champ: 0
carry on…
*raising hand* ooh ooh i know this answer… but i’m going to refrain…
@8th Wonder,
@The Champ,
LOL! I know you hate when people knock the Burgh, but I can’t believe someone like you is from this city! A lot of the guys I meet from here are slow and sh*t.
@Voiceofreason,
“A lot of the guys I meet from here are slow and sh*t.”
this is why you need to stop hanging around bus stations and sh*t, lol
I believe in marriage. I’ve only seen a handful of marriages that are still going after a few decades, but they seem to just tolerate each other, sadly.
I still believe. I believe in love, I believe in faithfulness, I believe that two people can be together and continuously work on themselves and their marriage, that there won’t be any sexual or emotional indiscretions, and that two people CAN stay in love…not just stay together.
The real question is, does that make me naive as hell?
@8th Wonder,
It doesn’t make you naive chickie.
My grandparents were married 64 yrs. before my grandfather passsed, and a few of my aunts and uncles have passed the 30 and 40 year aniversaries. My parents would’ve been married 37 years, (RIP Mom)—so I have plenty of examples of it working out.
Stay encouraged.
@8th Wonder,
I don’t think that makes you naive. I think a lot of people go into marriage already thinking negatively about the situation, then the marriage becomes sort of a self-fufilling prophecy. I think if more people would think like you, once they enter marriage, people would be more apt to work to attain and maintain the positive, instead of just waiting for the impending doom.
@8th Wonder,
The real question is, does that make me naive as hell?
nope. thinking that your love of the show “E.R.” is the reason why you’re known as “head doc” in d.c. is naive, but thinking that love exists and sh*t isn’t
Don’t think I won’t come through this computer.
@8th Wonder,
i think you misspelled “come”
Thank God you don’t get paid to think.
@The Champ, LMAO!!
@The Champ,
this. exchange.was.funny.
Fo’ Real…
@8th Wonder8th Wonder I have been with my husband for almost 8 years, married 3 of those years and I have come to learn that there is one thing greater than love. And that my dear is like. If you do not like each your problems will be greater than you could imagine.
I didn’t realize this at first. My husband made the statement in jest once “you better be glad I like”. That means a lot. Like is what enables us to deal with each other and our craziness day in and day out. Like is keeps us on those days when the love euphoria is at a low. Like also make us endure during those activities of uncommon interest.
So when choosing that mate make sure you like them as well as love them.
,
@Raqi,
So when choosing that mate make sure you like them as well as love them.
good point
@Raqi,
excellent point!
@Raqi,
what The Champ and shatani said….
@Raqi,
I <3 that so much… because it is so very true.
The like is actually more powerful and important than the love.
Whoa, breakthrough!
@8th Wonder,
Somewhere between being naive and being totally jaded is just being realistic…I think you’re closer to that. And besides, the last time I checked believing in things unseen was called faith.
@Lil’T & 8th Wonder,
I agree. Lil’ T took the words right out of my mouth! Believing in the unseen is faith.
Of all the fables that have been told centered around what we are not able to accomplish because of our race, why is the inability to maintain a happy and successful marriage the main one most of us fall victim to?
My guess is because it’s an easy out. Just like any thing else in this life a happy and successful marriage is about wanting it bad enough to do what it takes. We put our minds to doing any thing any other race will and can do but when it comes to marriage we not willing to give it our all and/or are quick to call it quits.
I read an article once that said “Marriage is for White People”. That is very disheartening.
I love being married to black man and have no doubt that he loves being married to me. Everything takes an honest effort and that’s what we put forth every single day. My parents were married up until my mother’s death and my husband’s parent prevailed also until death parted them. It is doable black people. Let’s just do it and stop looking for reasons not to.
@Raqi,
Amen!!
@Raqi,
Word up, cosignage (on the work it out), 3 year old w/ the testamony mike talm bout, ‘FIyuh shot up in my bones’.
@Raqi,
Word to the wise!
I have always wondered why people compare the rate of failed marriages around them to decide whether or not they would like to be married. We’ve all seen a lot of people fail at school, work, life… but we still went ahead and did (most of us). Why do we let others’ experiences define our own?
My parents celebrated their 30th anniversary this year. Like everything in life, they had their lows and highs and in betweens. At the ceremony (renewal of vows), my father said it was the most important journey of his life and he’s happy to still be on it.
I have also seen my godmother(mom’s sister) in a 30 year unsuccessful marriage in which she died a slow death everyday.
But still, it never occurred to me to compare my eventual future relationship life to eithe/or. I was going to figure it out by myself.
Marriage is like everything else in life. Like college, if you apply yourself and put in the work, you’ll reap the benefits.
It’s that simple.
You know what I tend to find the most interesting about the constant “get married” mantra’s that I hear?
it’s usually single people or divorced people always talking about getting married. people that i know who are married constantly tell you to take your time and make sure its what you really want to do.
i’ve always found this very telling.
I agree with you 100% on that.
@Panama Jackson,
That’s what married people always tell me. I’ll get married someday but I’m certainly in no rush.
@Panama Jackson,
mmm-hmmmm. All my married girlfriends tell me to take my time and wait. Even my mamma laid off the marriage talk and told me to enjoy my youth.
Personally, I support not even thinking about marriage until you’re 26 or older.
@Lil’T,
“I support not even thinking about marriage until you’re 26 or older.”
I second this emotion. All of my peoples who got married before age 25 are either divorced or separated right now. My best friend is possibly on her way to her second marriage (she’s 27), and the differences between just the type of guy she is with is so telling about how she has grown and changed as a person.
@blackberry molasses,
“I support not even thinking about marriage until you’re 26 or older.”
I agree with this statement… wholeheartedly! People definitely need to be ready. But if people are ready for marriage until many years after adolescence then what about sex?
@pgh muse,
Mmm, don’t know if I’m the one to ask. You know I love me some ho sh*t.
@Lil’T,
lol… me too
@Lil’T,
lol… me too
@Panama Jackson,
My married friends are diff. Panama. Every nice good chuch going girl gets thrown my way. Cuz I’m a nice guy. Maybe they (your married friends)busy making they own thing work.
@Panama Jackson,
That’s because there will come a day or two when you will ask yourself did I do the right thing…did I marry the right person. I love my husband. I like my husband. But there have been a day or two where I wanted to jump across the table and stab him in the eye with a butter knife. But we disagree and move on sans the eye poking.
I agree with be sure it is what you want AND who you want to do it with. It takes a lot to live with someone. And I know I ain’t no walk in the park.
Wow!!! I heart this post…
Hmmmm… I definitely belive in marriage. I think it’s a wonderful institution and there are PLENTY of animals that mate for life… whoever says there aren’t don’t watch the Discovery channel or PBS enough. I think that what needs to stop is the romantization of marriage and of relationships in general. Nothing is perfect. Instead of feeding kids fairy tales we should tell them the truth about life… then when they grown up maybe the won’t have such unrealistic expectations. As a matter of fact the word perfect should be deleted from our mental vocabulary. Or our expectations. It’s just a set up for failure. Marriages take work, and commitment (from both parties) and a LOT of love and sacrifice. If the goal of both parties in the relationship is to make each other happy then is shouldn’t be that bad, or that much of a tug of war. People have to stop being so selfish and self centered. And men need to stop teaching their male children that being a “man” means being an immature selfish whore (if this doesn’t apply to you then no offense) I think that marriage makes the parties involved much better people. But for those who don’t want to get married I have to say, To each his/her own… but i have to wonder why you DON’T want to?
@pgh muse,
“I think that what needs to stop is the romantization of marriage and of relationships in general”
how do you propose to do this?
@The Champ,
Good question. I don’t really know, but for myself, i think it starts in childhood and how kids are raised in general. I just hope to raise humble, honest kids who appreciate the good in their lives, and who know how to arm theirselves when life becomes challenging, because it will. When I talk to my kids I try to be present and honest and try to really talk to them. They need that. And they need our wisdom. I think this will help. Life has no guarantees so I just really want for my kids to be equipt, mentally sound adults. I think that will help them be good mates when the time comes for that.
@The Champ,
I think we should start with banning fairy tales.
Cinderella did get her prince because dude had a shoe fetish. End of story.
(and Snow White’s dude is actually creepier… necrophillia anybody???)
I keed I keed….. but not really.
@Ms. Sula actually working today…go figure!,
i feel ya…those fairytales are most certainly where it starts…and the fact that they really only tell them to the girls. so she’s sittin there all “damsel in distress” waitin on her prince to come, meanwhile he is unaware that he’s supposed to be ridin up on his trusty steed and instead is at PJ’s club kickin game to some snizzles….
i mean if we want folks to buy into the ish, lets make EVERYONE buy into it. folks need to know their role!
@shatani,
“i feel ya…those fairtytales are most certainly where it starts…and the fact that they really only tell them to the girls.”
If you’ve ever read the Grimm Brothers’ original “Little Red Riding Hood,” you might feel differently about fairy tales being just for girls. however, i can’t help but feel that the premise of those fairy tales is the very same hope, faith, like and love that everyone’s been speaking of. those stories depict characters who were made better by committed relationships…and isn’t that what the original post was about?
maybe fairy tales are the stories we tell ourselves to sustain our belief in institutions like marriage and family…they are burned into our memories at an early age that we may refer to them when our hearts get broken or other disheartening events of life seek to keep us down. animated parables…
@pgh muse,
i think the only people NOT cut out for marriage are those who dont actually want to get married. i agree, to each his/her own….problems generally arise when people are not clear with each other about where they stand on this issue….especially as that stance changes.
@pgh muse,
None offense taken sis, but if men need to stop teaching their sons that “being a man means being an immature selfish whore,” what do women need to stop teaching their daughters?
Could the aformentioned message be taught to them?
@ThePhiladelphiaNegro,
Could the aformentioned message be taught to them?
Absolutely. I said what i said because for the most part girls are taught not to be whores… I really think there needs to be more balance in what we teach our children period. But it is socially expected that girls respect themselves and boys whore themselves out. There is a huge double standard… Girls are supposed to be such better people then boys although boys are supposed to lead??? How does that make sense? But ne who… it’s a tale of two extremes… both are harmful in my opinion. That’s why I said that…
Sorry this is such a long post, but I have to chime in on this one…
My wife and I will have been married for 13 years this upcoming March, God willing. We’ve also been dating since high school.(March 1989)
It has been tough keeping it together, but we have done it despite all the statistics and other negative BS that society would have folks believe about Black marriages.
We got married in Montego, Jamaica back in March 1996. People would costantly engage us in conversations that went something like this:
Them: Hey! Welcome to Jamaica! You guys getting married?
Us: Yup.
Them: How old are you guys?
Us: 23 (me) and 22 (her).
Them: (pointing at my wife) You pregnant?
Us: Nope.
Them: You guys have children aready then?
Us: Nope.
Them:?????
We always look back at these conversations as being tragic. Why was it outside of the norm for two young people to go ahead and settle down WITHOUT having any kids. In fact, it would be five additional years later before she and I would have our first son.
In order for marriage to work, there have to be sacrifices made, a willingness to put aside your ego ( a lot) and a steadfast resolve to the ultimate goal of staying together. My son’s Godfather who’s also my Masonic brother, has been married to his wife for ten years now. They have two boys of their own and he’s been away most of their marriage on military duty overseas. She’s a corporate exec who also holds the fort down at home. Despite the odds, they make it work b/c they are committed.
My best friend and his wife have been together for ten years now. She had two kids when he entered into the relationship and he spent many of those years trying to play his position (supporting her child-rearing efforts as a step-parent) while still maintaining his role as head of his house. Two years ago, his stepson was murdered in North Philadelphia. They’ve stayed together through that. His stepdaughter is now pregnant, They stayed together through that. And I didn’t even mention the age disparity between him and his wife? (he’s 36; she’s 41)
My aunt and uncle are still together happily after 30 years of marriage despite his going to jail for seven years back in the 80′s.
I can’t also understate the fact that all of us are all of fairly strong Christian beliefs as well. Not going to get all preachy but I will say that you have to learn to lean on a higher power and know that you don’t have all the answers.
Marriage is not for the feint of heart to be sure, but it’s not this impossibility that a lot of folks would make it out to be. It requires both parties to be a lot less ‘me’ centric, and that’s the part most folks can’t get over. You can’t be all “man, eff this!” at the first sign of trouble-you’ve got to gut that isht out!! My wife and I both agree that it’s the best move we’ve ever made and wouldn’t have it any other way. I’m not saying you can’t be happy by yourself but you can be twice as happy with someone else. And as far as being with multiple people, that isht gets played out once you pass 25. I don’t know about all the aforementioned statistics, but I do know that marriage works when two people are committed and have God in their lives. Just my $3.57 on the issue…
@ThePhiladelphiaNegro,
is it possible for me to have a fraternal male e-twin? because i think you might be he.
I too believe that making a marriage work is something beyond the natural and very much the handywork of a higher power (call it what you will, I call it God).
I am a newlywed (less than 2 years) and have already had to get down on my knees and search for that strength beyond myself to stay with this thing, because I love this man and made a commitment before God and our families.
I truly believe, as others have stated that the reason so many marriages fail is because people romanticize the idea of marriage and that they refuse to get over “I” to become “Us”.
I plan on putting in the work. So does my husband. This getting married thing is something I plan on doing only once in my life, so I better get it right.
*gets off soapbox*
and now, on to the foolywang that makes my workday go so much quicker
@ThePhiladelphiaNegro,
All that you just said…those are “The Rules”! That’s what is run down in Corinthians and Ephesians.
All of those things are the principles to stand on to have a successful marriage. This is why I can’t stand all the “other stuff” (gf/bf/fwb/fb), because there are no real principles that have been proven effective on which to stand.
And yes, I am divorced…but effin’ something up REAL GOOD is a sure fire way to learn how to do it the right way the next time.
@PBG,
Exactly, sis! Exactly!
Like I said, I didn’t want to come off as preachy, but I’m saying, if you really want to know how to make this thing work (life, marriage, etc.) fo’ rilla- crack open the Basic Instructions Before Leaving Earth!
@ThePhiladelphiaNegro,
“Basic Instructions Before Leaving Earth!”
Give you daps for this reference!!!
“all of us are all of fairly strong Christian beliefs as well.”
@ThePhiladelphiaNegro, my parents not only practiced but also preached (taught us) that the family that prays together stays together. I believe them on that.
@ThePhiladelphiaNegro,
Only thing I would add would be to say that, ‘Obedience is better than sacrifice.’
I mean you got to be on some, ‘in spite of… I’m committed, never the less… I’m committed, even if they don’t… I’m committed’ @ least Jeremiah Wright said that once about it in a sermon back in the day.
@WuDaMan,
the pain of sacrifice hurts much less than the pain of regret
@the P the E the Y the S the O,
But if you Obey in the first place you won’t have to sacrifice to make up for your dis-obedience.
@WuDaMan, Obedience is indeed greater than the sacrifice.
Once I figure out what you are talking about 90-95% of the time, I think I’m going to ePropose to you, Wu.
Reading that lofty a** job descriptions drew one conclusion for me:
the incumbant’s payroll check will bounce either the first pay period or second.
@Jeandra,
so i take it you wont be applying for the gig?
@The Champ,
I personally don’t see the relevance in an agency like this. It’s of the same parallel as those churches that preach homosexuality is unnatural or all western medicine is a farce.
How about an agency that teaches the importance of raising your children yourself instead of letting the TV or Big Mama doing it?
I just have to submit to this discussion on marriage that I think the idea of a heirarchy in a family needs to be deaded. Each has a vital and equally important role to play in the family unit. I think the ideal of the man as the head just feeds the male ego and is very detrimental.
@pgh muse,
all personal relationships, romantic or otherwise, have hierarchies though. its impossible for us to function without them
@The Champ,
I disagree. If what each party brings to the table is mutually respected then what is the need for a hierarchy?
@pgh muse,
I can hardly believe that I am disagreeing with you on this – this was exactly how I thought when I was a little younger. The very idea of having a person (especially a man) be “in charge” of me in any way was not the bidness. Obedience was for dogs.
Buuuut – in my old age I don’t mind so much. Matter of fact, if a man doesn’t know how to take the lead he’s not making it too far with me. I’m still not really obedient, though. I think that the ability to take the lead sometimes and follow his lead at others is important. And any man that I crown king of my throne will be wise enough to seek my input rather than dictate what we’re gonna do. Otherwise, I don’t want the responsibility of being “head of the household”.
@Lil’T,
I don’t want the responsibility of being “head of the household”.
I will agree with everything you said. TRULY. But i think that my disagreement with you is a matter of semantics. I want a man that has good leadership qualities, who can be decisive, and who is responsible. My problem is with a man who gets flustered when I display the same qualities. I’m GROWN. And i think that it’s important for adults to be able to handle themselves. I think that both parties have to submit to each other in given situations… and share the role as the “head” of the household. I don’t wish doing the duty of headship of a family alone to anyone… but this is why I think that in reality it is a shared endeavor… and should be spoken of as such.
@pgh muse,
it does sound mainly semantics to me…one of the hallmarks of a truly great leader is knowing when to step out of the way and let another take the lead. for example, im good with money and budgets…if i marry a man who is not as good with money, but under the guise of “head of household” decides that this is “man’s work” and he oughta be doing it, then we have a problem…because its clearly in everyone’s best interest that the person handling the collectvive fundage be the one who is better at doing so.
so, if a man cant get past his own ego to the point where the best insterest of the unit is the prime directive, then he’s really not that great a leader, imo.
@pgh muse,
“My problem is with a man who gets flustered when I display the same qualities.”
I think this sentence right here is the key. A real man (a man that is truly worthy of the HOH title) will not be intimidated by your thoughts, intelligence or independance. That is insecure bamma nonsense. A real man will let you take the lead when you’re ready and willing – and be proud to do so.
We’re a generation of thinkers – I don’t know any women who would blindly follow a man just because he’s “The Man”. And I wish a nucca would try to tell me what to do on some ole “I’m the man” sh*t. Actually, somebody did say that mess to me – and was picking up the remnants of his glass coffee table off the floor shortly after.
But before I start skipping down memory lane…the point I’m trying to make is that you won’t mind taking the lead from the right man. He’ll do the same. Then it won’t matter if people refer to y’all as partners, co-pilots or the dog n pony show cuz you’ll know the deal…
@Lil’T,
the point I’m trying to make is that you won’t mind taking the lead from the right man. He’ll do the same. Then it won’t matter if people refer to y’all as partners, co-pilots or the dog n pony show cuz you’ll know the deal…
This is very true. And for him when in front of other men he needs to stick his chest out I let him (a little) but i think that it is important for the self esteem and empowerment of women that we realize that what we bring to the table is powerful and vital… and I think that words are important. The proof is the Bible… people have been following it for a few thousand years… I think that we should say what it is, if its a partnership call it a partnership… that way there isn’t room for error, interpretation (spellcheck?), wife beatings, and female degradation.
@Lil’T,
im feeling this post right here…its like i wrote it.
now, i will most definitely admit to not being fully ready…but the idea of someone else (who has my best interest at heart) taking the lead and making the decisions doesnt sound so bad these days.
ps. i cant imagine being obedient…i mean, i will most certainly talk some smack, but in the end will probably be compliant. i just have to make things a teensy bit difficult. lol…
@The Champ,
“hierarchies”
*champ just lost A LOT of cool points* Wait I take that back because he never had any.
What time period are you in? Why would you call it a hierarchy? Why must one dominate over the other?
*stuck* Hierarchy between a man and a woman?!?!
@Ivy St., In defense of my dear friend Champ. I dont think he means “hierarchy” as in “Hey chick do what I say or else?”. But a hierarchy in the sense that there is a general decision maker who makes most of the decisions.
@the P the E the Y the S the O,
This may be true but in my personal experience there is not one person who fulfills this role. Both people make decisions as a team. Both decide on d*mn near everything… so… where does the hierarchy come in?
@the P the E the Y the S the O,
When you start talking “submission” and all that is when the marriage talk gets prickly for some women.
*snicker*
I love to sit back and watch that debate.
@PBG,
The word “submission” has about the same comfort level as a hair shirt. I’ve noticed that ole boy has jedi mind tricked me more than a few times, though. It’s funny, because he has a much more laid back personality than I do. I’m an aggressive little Aries, he’s the diplomatic, soft-spoken Libra. I’m the youngest, he’s the only. You’d think we would butt heads constantly, yet he often gets his way and I don’t mind at all. Usually because my interests are included in his plans. If that’s the s-word I guess I don’t mind it much.
@Lil’T,
I’m an aggressive little Aries
Ha, fellow Aries… Now it all makes sense!
@PBG,
When you start talking “submission” and all that is when the marriage talk gets prickly for some women.
It gets very prickly. I still don’t understand the concept in biblical terms… I’ll take some education on it if anyone has an opinion (this is sincere, really).
@pgh muse,
The difference lies in the contrast between the words “submission” and “subservient”.
When you submit, you are submitting to authority. And authority is commanded, not DEMANDED. And that’s because you don’t have to give authority. Authority is earned through content of character and actions-acts of love and respect. Fools don’t command a thing, because they are too foolish.
Now, subservience involves a foot on your back, disrespect and some fool demanding something that they haven’t shown one bit of aptitude for inclination towards. This has nothing to do w/a balanced relationship in marriage. It is foolish behavior and should be avoided @ all costs.
This is how I see it, in the context of what I know of The Bible.
…
ummm, PBG and Wu – are we about to witness the first VSB e-wedding? Daaaaannnngg!!!! I’ma RSVP for me and the gangsta wings.
@WuDaMan,
Based on your comments up-thread in regards to kitties, I may not even be able to talk to you anymore.
My eHeart is eBroken.
…
@PBG,
I follow u. I can get with this
@The Champ,
And Champ, if we are looking for partners who COMPLIMENT us… then why would we feel the need to usurp them when they are just fulfilling their role. It’s the ego that tells u that u need a hierarchy. And in a truly loving relationship there is no place for ego trips.
@pgh muse,
i’m gonna have to respectfully disagree. there are hierarchies in every organized society (and by society, I mean people who group themselves together for the purpose of survival – much like the family). it may happen naturally or it may be consciously mandated, but a hierarchy is bound to happen…people play their roles based on talent, respect, natural tendencies, etc. every person in a society plays a role or “has a job” that is integral to its ultimate sustainability.
if it’s the word “hierarchy” that becomes a problem, maybe we should think about it in terms of doing your job or carrying your weight.
@pgh muse,
Insofar as the ‘male ego’ goes, in and unto itself is not detrimenatal.
It’s as important for young men (esp. our young Black boys) to know their worth as it is for our Black girls. I’m raising my sons to know that they are our newest shining examples of Black manhood and that they are the most intelligent, sought after, hated, and consistantly emulated beings on the face of the planet.
By the same token, knowing your worth (in this case, the ‘male ego’) doesn’t mean diminishing the value of others. My wife and I are also teaching them the value of humility, service and a love of God and respect for women which should always help them to maintain a proper perspective.
As far as marriage goes, I agree that everybody makes contributions to the successful running of a household. A GOOD man (or woman for that matter) values his partner’s input and respects their authority as well. (At least I know that I do.) In my experience, a leader has emerged (whether stated or unspoken) even in a partnership and they’ve tended to be the men I’ve known and seen. My main damie and I come from patriarchal households so that definitely shapes our perspective. If there is truly a 50/50 partnership (which, I personally don’t believe there ever is) or if the woman is the head of the house, (which I have seen) then that works too. As long as everybody’s got their mind, heart, energies and prayer focused on staying together, it can work.
@ThePhiladelphiaNegro,
As long as everybody’s got their mind, heart, energies and prayer focused on staying together, it can work.
I agree with this wholeheartedly. And please believe that I respect everything u post cuz it seems real and very “grown man”. But…
I think that there is a huge difference between self-esteem and ego. You can love yourself and know your worth and still be humble. I have two sons. And from me they will be taught to love, honor, and RESPECT their mate… and what she brings to the table. I want my sons to be the best men they can be, no doubt. But I don’t ever want my son’s to buy into playing Captain Save a Ho… I want my son’s to understand a woman’s role and her worth so that they pick the right partner. I don’t want them looking for a woman that they feel is weaker that they can dominate cause that is just what they would try to do. and that is wrong. If they choose the right mate she will be strong where they are weak… and vice versa… then they will have found a partner that COMPLIMENTS them… not is weaker than them.
@pgh muse,
I can dig where you’re coming from sis. We’re really not all that different.
Well, I’ll say this and I think that you’ll agree with me: if our four strong sons end up picking out women who are 1/2 as good as their respective mothers, they’ll be able to consider themselves blessed and highly favored:-)
@ThePhiladelphiaNegro,
LOL. Yessir
@pgh muse,
There is what people say they want, and then what they actually respond to.
@pgh muse,
Very funny that we slightly disagree… as we always seem to agree on anything!
I don’t believe in a pre-set hierarchy. I believe that there has to be one person in charge of a certain thing at all times. The roles can change for the very same thing but someone needs to be in charge of the thing at all times. Else, it’s chaos.
We may both bring different things to the table, but if we don’t know who is bringing what at what point, we might be in for some serious trouble.
So I don’t necessarily agree with the traditional model of man as breadwinner and wife as housemaker, but I do believe that responsibilities (therefore hierarchy) must be clearly determined and established.
@Ms. Sula actually working today…go figure!,
AWWW! Ms. Sula our run has come to an end!!! Boo
!
But really, I understand what your saying, and I don’t think that the opposite of a hierarchy is chaos. I think it’s harmony. I think that life is so fluid that something in anything someone can pick up the mantle of leadership… that’s why all must be prepared. There are people who have different talents and different skill sets, but i think when you have two adults in a family, both have to be adequately prepared to juggle the others duties should they have to… cuz those situations may arise… and everyone has moments in the family where they shine. We should welcome those. So in general i don’t believe in hierarchy’s… I believe in mutual respect and grownups stepping up to the plate when necessary.
@pgh muse,
although i first thought that we just have a semantic disagreement, after reading your comments, its clear that we don’t. now, by hierarchy i don’t mean that one entity is completely dominant over the other, but there cannot be a perfect 50/50 split. maybe its 50.1/49.9, or 52/48, or 60/40…but in every situation where personal relationships matter, there’s always one person who holds just a tiny bit more say than everyone else. now, in the optimum personal relationship, the other people/person might have willfully given this person that power when they trust that person to lead properly. now, this isnt suggesting that there wont be other opportunities to step up. sh*t, even horace grant lead the bulls in scoring a few games a season. but, no team/group/relationship can function without a leader.
@The Champ,
ehhh… i disagree. I am believe in symbiotic, harmonious relationships. I think they can be achieved. I think that at given points in time the leadership role will change because life is fluid… seasons come seasons go… people change… all that stuff. In a marriage, if both come to the table with their minds and hearts right then both can be leaders, and to keep that marriage together both will have to be leaders. I don’t know much about bball… but those men are paid to fill a certain role (pt guard, center, forward, what have u… in a marriage we’re talking about choosing a life partner to ride out all of life’s circumstances… good, bad, broke, rich, infidelity (maybe), kids, all that… i think both have to be leaders in order to make it work. the yin and the yang… balance and harmony. If u choose a weak partner, that’s a bad choice.
@pgh muse,
I have to add that I have never heard a woman looking for a spouse who is less than she… i hear woman looking for partners who are their equal… socially and financially…not saying it doesn’t happen, but i think this is really a male issue… the illusion of a hierarchy only serves the ego.
I wouldn’t say marriage isn’t for everyone. It just isn’t for selfish people. Give me a list of reasons of why you don’t want to get married, and it all comes back to YOU. You, you, you. Don’t want to share what you have built? That’s YOU! Don’t want to be tied down? That’s YOU! Well guess what? Sometimes you just have to say, “F*ck “YOU!”
No need to expound. The brilliance lies in the simplicity.
And that’s real.
@SouthernCharm,
Awe inspiring!!
@SouthernCharm,
The truth is its purest form….
@SouthernCharm, my belief is marriage is for every one however every one is not for marriage.
if your statement read: “marriage can be for everyone, but everyone is not for marriage” i’d agree wholeheartedly.
@SouthernCharm,
You betta preach that!!
*waves Obama church fan*
@PBG,
*starts “YES, WE CAN” chant
@PBG,
*starts “YES, WE CAN” chant*
@SouthernCharm,
& the simple will confound the wise. ‘FAH Q!’ in a post watch out now.
Saturday morning I’m eatin some cereal watchin sports center.
Ding dong. The doorbell rings
I open the door
Two well dressed African Americans are standing there. One passes me an Awake magazine and the other asks, ‘Are you ready for Jehova’s return?’
@WuDaMan,
Did one of them have on white stockings, but she was clearly not a nurse? A lot of them bama azz JH’s roll up on me like that. I can’t even concentrate on their chat because those white stockings be taunting me.
@PBG,
This made me laugh out loud… dayum.
@PBG,
Know what Yes. and then I fain ill and clearly a medical profesional she is not. Listened to their schpeal and my retorts were met with stamering and yo no se`.
@WuDaMan,
i bagged (read: “subtly attempted to bag”) a fine-ass hova’s witness a few years ago. i actually think i would have sealed the deal if i accepted her invitation to attend temple with her.
carry on
@The Champ,
You sound just like my homeboy who listened and listened and begged for the #. Funny, I had a big crush on one in HS too. smh
@SouthernCharm,
Amen to that!
and i know about myself that i am still in my selfish stage…i wouldnt dare inflict this me upon the institution of marriage. that would end quickly and messily.
@SouthernCharm
What’s wrong with being selfish?
@V Renee,
theres absolutely nothing wrong with being selfish when self is all that you have to look out for. i know i dont intend that in a negative way….but there are certain times in your life when selfishness must be put to the side a majority of the time. one is when you have children and another is when you get married….these are times when what is most beneficial to the self may have to be forgone in order for the family unit to progress.
right now, im not ready to give that up yet, so i am not an ideal candidate for marriage. i recognize that…its not negative nor positive, it just is. this is also why i would make a poor candidate for motherhood right now as well….tani-may luh da kids…but she also luh takin them mofos back to they house! lol
@SouthernCharm,
No lie tho son, but you sounding like those 1850′s slave preachers, that used to write that Christianity would lead the enslaved people to the promise land.
And here I thought I was going to be able to “put up the red light” forever….
Hmmph! My dreams are shot. My Roxanne days are dwindling down… Woe is me.
@Ms. Sula actually working today…go figure!,
And here I thought I was going to be able to “put up the red light” forever….
nope. back to work and sh*t
Whomever takes this position has about 30 years of catching up to do and probably won’t make it through first term. How can anyone convince someone that a failing institution is worth investing in?
BTW, I don’t think it is selfish to not want marriage. It is not a life or death situation. I do believe though that marriage is not a cure for any of society’s ailments except for the raising of children in a stable household and even that is suspect at some points.
I fail to see why pro-marriage is so important, especially when the court systems are jacked and biased beyond belief .
Then again, pay no attention to the man behind the curtain.
@CPT Callamity
“BTW, I don’t think it is selfish to not want marriage. ”
Me either. Saying that is about as bad as someone telling a woman that she’s selfish for not wanting kids.
I don’t see why people get up in arms about people saying they don’t want to get married. If you want to get married, get married. If you don’t want to get married, then don’t get married.
@V Renee,
Basically. Some people have it ingrained in them to seek a husband or a wife. I know on this forum, I’ve been asked whether or not I’ve seen good examples of successful or long lasting relationships. The answer is yes, but it wasn’t with both of my biological parents and it was generally among people who had been together for a very long time beforehand or older heads. Most of my friends are working on marriage #2 or have kids from some previous relationship. I’m the last man standing pretty much, but don’t feel pressured. It is okay to want marriage, but I cannot figure out how it could make my life any better than it is. I also guess if i was religious that it would be a valid step to take, but I’m not. I’d like to just meet someone that I really and genuinely feel first, because it’s something that seldom happens….then we’ll talk lifelong partnership.
@CPT Callamity,
im not seeing how your feelings are anti-marriage….
i think ive had this conversation with a couple of men before…where they ask me what im looking for. and i say, what im ultimately looking for is someone to spend my life with. now, that does not in ANY way mean that this man is the one who gets that honor, but he automatically comes back with some “not ready for a relationship” nonsense….it amuses and disappoints me.
i mean, its not like i said…im looking to marry you, sir. yes, you. in reality im looking for the same thing you are, cap….to meet a man that makes forever seem like its not such a long time, and then discuss whether or not we wish to embark on that together….im having trouble meeting a man that doesnt make a couple hours feel like an eternity!
@V Renee,
I agree with this. There are lots of different types that make the world go ’round… I am more against oppression and narrowmindedness than anything else. If your not hurting anyone than it’s your business.
@CPT Callamity,
two things:
1. “Whomever takes this position has about 30 years of catching up to do and probably won’t make it through first term. How can anyone convince someone that a failing institution is worth investing in”
so, by this same logic, noone should bother investing time and energy in educating and mentoring young black inner city males, because, if you look at the numbers/percentages, we’re not worth the investment
2. “I do believe though that marriage is not a cure for any of society’s ailments except for the raising of children in a stable household”
raising kids in a stable household is actually the most vital and viable cure for most of societies aliments. mind you, i’m not saying that marriage insures that kids will be raised right or that only kids produced from married families have sense, just that having a stable household makes it much more likely to happen, and, more often than not, married households are more stable than single parent houses.
@CPT Callamity, How can anyone convince someone that a failing institution is worth investing in?
I believe the negativity expressed towards marriage in that one little statement is really the crux of the issue, and serves as an example as to why PR specialist is needed.
@CPT Callamity, first off you dont know if marriage is faiiling cuz all yuo have are MODERN day stats you cant go back to see if it was better or not in the 18th century. You would be against marriage even if the D0-rate was 10% . …last the music industry is fading I still think you listen to music right?
@temps,
Yes! Yes we can! The fact that people weren’t getting divorced back in the 18th century, but now that its a viable option are FREELY CHOOSING divorce, doesn’t that tell you something?
@CPT Callamity, first off you dont know if marriage is faiiling cuz all yuo have are MODERN day stats you cant go back to see if it was better or not in the 18th century. You would be against marriage even if the D-rate was 10% . …last the music industry is fading I still think you listen to music right?
@CPT Callamity, well since you can only compare the d-rate today to about 40 yrs ago you have a small sample since marriage has been around for centuries…Face it you’d be against marriage if the D-rate was 10%. And last the music business is failing (hence so much bad music out this ENTIRE decade) but I dont think you are going to stop supporting it (and dont gimmie “I buy bootleg” or download it..free a) you still paid for it or a) wasted time to get something that sucks or is i-ight)
My parents and I didn’t really talk much about dating as I was growing up. Since my last serious relationship, my dad has been a bit more proactive in terms of defining how he views I should go about finding a mate and what he sees are important qualities. So, here’s my understanding of the advice I’ve been given in the context of this post.
1. Wait till you’re done with school and worked a couple years.
2. You’d want to have kids before your 30s (not quite as relevant. ..)
3. The person you marry should be smart, independent, capable, and able to support and help you achieve your goals.
4. You may come to love the person you marry.
#4 is interesting to me for a variety of reasons. First, my initial response to hearing that made me think that our generation has a different view of what constitutes marriage material. (Actually, I already knew this a bit).
There’s a tendency towards the love conquers all view and with it, that if you’re in love with someone, you will feel that way about them forever, otherwise you weren’t really in love or that once it changes, then your relationship is in the crapper.
However, relationships are not all exciting and romantic day after day, year after year. There are lulls at times. Sometimes, what becomes more important is the commitment to help and support each other in your goals, to raise a stable family, to buy that house you’ve both dreamed about.
I think I’ve always known relationships require work. Patching up arguments, showing each other that they’re appreciated and wanted, not taken for granted. It makes use of tools like compromise, red roses, and hallmark cards.
Let’s look at one of those tools compromise. On the surface, it seems to suggest you can use it to resolve any problem. That is inaccurate. It can resolve most problems, so long as they are issues you are willing to be a bit flexible on. We all have things we absolutely want. These can include religion, children, parents that will live with you, place you’d make your home, etc.
These non-negotiable items have to be compatible otherwise you’re guaranteed to have a fractious relationship.
So, prior to getting married, it’s probably most important that both parties understand:
1. Their goals for their life
2. How the other person helps and supports them.
3. The goals their partner has and how you’re involved.
4. What your non-negotiables are and whether they’re compatible with your partner.
5. Realize that marriage isn’t all fun and excitement every day.
I may be missing a couple things but I think a lot of problems we see are two-fold. First, that people aren’t doing all this prep work prior to getting married and second, we have a culture that says its ok to leave if that spark disappears. We can have arguments about the validity of that sentiment but let me say this. If it’s ok to end a marriage because of a natural progression/occurrence in any relationship, why are we surprised at the way things are ending up?
Knives get dull. Some of us just throw them away and buy new knives. People who have invested time in finding a knife they like, one that fits well in their hand, has a specific place in their kitchen, cooked that thanksgiving meal where everyone was finally at home, they don’t throw away the knife, they go out and have it resharpened.
@kamakula,
Love this post!
@pgh muse,
stole my words! this post is right on the money. folks are relying too much on love and not asking pertinent questions BEFORE getting involved.
You make a very important point that I also wanted to make- most people do not do the prep work prior to marriage. There are many important conversations that a couple needs to have prior to getting married- there are many books available that help couples have these convos (I think one of them is called something like “100 questions to ask/answer before getting married”). Many things come up in marriage that people did not expect (for example- how/when to discipline children, managing finances)- so it’s important to discuss them ahead of time.
The other thing that I wanted to say is something that I always say to people who say they’ll never get married or question why they should get married- the institution of marriage is not the problem, it’s the people involved who cause problems. For instance, I was out with a group of women last night and one woman was talking about her husband, who she is in the process of divorcing. She was complaining that he said things to please her prior to the marriage that he didn’t follow up on once they got married (e.g., he agreed to allow her to dress him prior to marriage- because his fashion sense was off- but after marriage he “dressed like a slob” and resented her desire for him to dress a certain way). She also complained that he cheated (a big problem of course) but later explained that this was how his family operated- and she said that she wishes that she had met his family before they got married. HELLO- meet the family! Cause, like she said, “the apple doesn’t fall far from the tree”. After telling us all this she said, “I’m never getting married again”- like the marriage itself (the institution) was the problem. You gotta do your homework and plan ahead and gather info as best you can. And both people have to agree to be committed to it cause it’s hard.
I’m not married but this is a research interest of mine. And the stats are right- marriage benefits men more than women (health, social, general well-being), but I recently saw that this may no longer hold true based on the results of a more recent study…
@kamakula,
Bravo!
Love it mayne!
@kamakula,
I know you are Naija so I have a question. Were your parents arranged? A lot of my relatives were. They say basically the same things
@blackberry molasses,
When my parents (and relatives) started hinting at my supposedly “old” age and my “unmarried” status, I told them that they should just go ahead and just put me in an arranged marriage…
People laughed and thought I was being my usual sarcastic self except I was only 60% kidding..
Personally, I do believe arranged marriages have a higher rate to succeed than “love” marriages. Why? It’s all about expectations.
Happiness is really the science of managing expectations. And like all sciences, it’s deceptively simple. When the expectations are low, it’s easy to exceed them hence creating happiness. When they are too high (read the Cinderella version of marriage), 90% chances are that those expectations will not be met resulting in feelings of disappointment and unhappiness.
Same reason why smart people are not easily content. They know better.
(I know I just shoot my theory in the foot with that last comment but you get my drift…
)
@Ms. Sula actually working today…go figure!,
I completely agree with this, actually, even though my ass married for love.
If it hadn’t been him, I would have asked my parents to arrange one as well. The reasoning is they know who they raised, what I am capable of, what I will stand for and what I absolutely cannot abide. I think my parents (read:mom, because dad is convinced i will go to the grave a virgin) would actually do a good job.
@Ms. Sula actually working today…go figure!,
I know what you mean. I’m usually able to manage my expectations though as stress piles up, my ability to do so diminishes and then I go through a couple days of reliving the past and soul searching until I can get back on track.
@blackberry molasses,
No. My mom is african american and my dad was/is nigerian. That doesn’t stop me from being. . .encouraged . . . to marry nigerian, actually, that’s not enough, Igbo, and I’ve shown up for thanksgiving from school to find some daughter of a friend who happens to be around. . .
Even that wouldn’t have been a problem except my parents already knew I was in a pretty committed relationship. That was the closest I’ve come to asking my dad straight out wtf were you thinking?
@kamakula, yep you nailed we are MICROWAVE generation-what we want best be ready the moment we arrive-we dont want to wait for the ore to be processed to gold-no one else should find it but when we walk on up on the spot there had best be that real gold…all of this is backed my lazzie-fair materialsim…face young blacks are gaudy to a flaw…and we overrate too many “normal things” . Yes a man in a place where driving is needed (I am from and still live in Brooklyn) he needs a car, yet my aunt a VP in Met Life-mahogany table.floor toceiling windows NEVR owned a ride, but two browstones in Bed-Stuy. Our gen would think “she borke” cuz she’s sans car…yet if one took the TIME to talk to her they see whats up.
In the end for our generation the surface is depth and when up to our expectations (the mircowave again) we get all twisted about “life”. Ghetto kids who did good or not as well as suburbanites do this so its all across the board.
So y’all are saying those marriage billboards aren’t getting the job done?? Not even the one with the dude in braids?
@Hostess,
Waste of tax/advertising dollars.
@Hostess,
billboards?
@The Champ,
http://www.marriageworksusa.com/
Click on the MEDIA link.
I believe in marriage. My parents are a great example of a strong, happy, healthy marriage. Hell this recession ain’t no big thang… momdukes been making dollas outta .15 since she graduated high school, or so it seems.
I believe one day I will get married…but that one day is seemingly lightyears away.
Why?
Not only do I have to combat the “she’s 25, in grad school, working full time, she must have babies, drama, issues, be psycho, a gold digger, trifling, etc.” stigmas of being a black woman….. but I also have to find a dude who doesn’t fit the bill for every stereotype/stigma of men in the world.
It’s like when you first date a person you need to have a “Life Resume” with References from you Ob/Gyn, Shrink, Accountant, Boss, & Pastor.
I mean, I don’t think I’m a “dime a dozen” type chick….I’m in grad school, work full time, go to church regularly, healthy libido, I look good, have a good sense of humor, don’t take myself too seriously…. hell all of my innercircle and intermediate circle are almost clones of the same mold….and wouldn’t ya know it… all single as a slice of processed individually wrapped cheese.
Pingback: Marriage Education