Wanna Be A “Good” Guy? Assume Women Are Liars

"Hmm. Does it count against my number if he can only climax while sleep?"

“I rocked my American Apparel unmentionables for this?”

A couple months ago, a friend of mine (“Jack”) shared a story where he ended up sleeping with someone he knew he shouldn’t have slept with. The woman (“Jane”) had been a close platonic (Ha!) friend of his for several years. They shared dating war stories, knew each other’s families, and even occasionally attended church together.

But, one night a few months ago, a “let’s hit this happy hour after work” text turned into “eh, this happy hour is wack, do you still have that bottle of honey jack from the last game night” leading to “i’m too f*cked up to drive home, do you mind if I crash on your couch?” andeventually ending at “do you have any condoms?”

After breaking the seal, they’ve had sex at least once a week for the last three or four months. Apparently, she had feelings for him for some time. And, although she knows the feelings aren’t reciprocated—a fact he made very blunt after they slept together the first time so she wouldn’t get “the wrong idea”—she swears she’s perfectly fine with the arrangement. They’re still cool, they still share dating war stories, and they still (occasionally) go to church together. Only difference now is that he knows that, if the spirit moves him and he wants to get some ass, he can go over there at any time. And, not only has he hit her up after going on dates with other women, he’s gone over to her place before dates as well.

I imagine that most people reading this story have come to the conclusion that Jack is a major douchebag. Even those who might envy what he’s been able to do probably still think it takes a special grade of douche to sleep with a woman (a friend!) who has feelings for you even though you know they’re unrequited, and an even specialer, enhanced grade of douche—douche crack, I guess—to openly and brazenly date other women in her presence.

But, believing Jack is a limited-edition douche means that you’ve made another assumption—an assumption many of us also make even if we don’t want to make it and don’t realize we’ve made it:

Jane is a liar.

Our perception of Jack’s douchiness directly correlates to Jane’s feelings. We know Jane has feelings for Jack, so even though she swears she’s a-ok with being his f*ck buddy, we know she’s lying. She can’t possibly be telling the truth. There’s no way the satisfaction she gets from being a 3am on a Wednesday night booty call of a person she wants to be with is worth the shame of being a 3am on a Wednesday booty call of a person she wants to be with.

And, why are we so sure that she’s not being honest with herself? Well, she’s a woman, and, well, she’s a woman, and since she’s a woman, she’s not telling the truth cause that’s not how women “think” and “feel” about sex.

Now, if we believed Jane was being completely honest, Jack wouldn’t be seen as a douche, and this would just be a story about two adults who’ve decided to have some fun with each other in a mutually agreed upon and mutually beneficial way. But, since Jane is a woman—and since both socialization and experience has taught us that she’s probably not being honest with her feelings—the socially palatable (read: good) way for him to have dealt with this situation is to assume that Jane’s gender makes her completely unable to be honest about stuff like this. Basically, the only way for Jack to avoid being considered a douche is to assume Jane—and any other woman who’d say “I’m cool” in a similar situation—isn’t really a-ok with the arrangement, and not sleep with her. Basically, to be a “good” guy, sometimes you need to assume that women are liars.

I can imagine that many of you don’t think this is a fair assessment. Shit, I said it and I still don’t. But, it’s only unfair because, out of me, you, Jack, and Jane, Jack is the only one we know is telling the truth.

—Damon Young (aka “The Champ”)

  • LilyO.

    Wow! I can honestly say that I have never thought about this topic this way. So by not being truthful with this “good guy” she is setting him up for being labeled a “bad one”? Interesting perspective.

    • http://www.alltherightquestions.com T.Q. Fuego

      “So by not being truthful with this “good guy” she is setting him up for being labeled a “bad one”? Interesting perspective.”

      Huh? lol, no that’s not what he was saying at all. He just said she was a liar and not being real with herself, but HE would get labeled a bad guy for not realizing this for her and pro-actively doing “the right thing” (giving up his awesome arrangement) for her precious feelings’ sake.

      • H.H.H.

        “He just said she was a liar and not being real with herself, ”

        i don’t see that…

        there is no indication that she is lying or not. just…our perceptions. which might be the point.

        • http://www.twitter.com/mcnairian5 Fiveisthenumber

          Both of them ain’t shit. Ha!

        • Marshal

          Nope, she IS a Liar, and no matter what Jack does he is the “Bad Guy”

          He would be making Jane’s choice For Her by Sleeping or Not Sleeping with her, as she Doesn’t Choose, thus Jack becomes the Controlling Douche. Lots (not All) of women, especially some prominent VSS, Demetria Lucas and others love to say that Men do not allow Women to be “equals”, yet None what to be Accountable for that very Choice-to be Wrong and Hurt and Foolish. Men take that risk all.the.time, starting from the Approaching Phase.

          Great Post, Champ. This has been needed for a long, long time

          • player81

            Everything Marshal just said

            • BlickRick

              Reply with something!!!

    • Rewind

      Actually…yes.

      Everybody wants to be the good guy. But in some cases, you will be the bad guy, whether it was your choice or not. That’s how the cards play.

      In this case, he allowed himself to make a stupid decision, but based on her actions & lack of honesty, he completely looks like a d*ck (which again, his fault, but if she actually didn’t give a sh*t, this conversation would be totally different).

      • http://stanoffewwords.wordpress.com Tristan

        We’ll never truly control how one perceives us. He can by all accounts be a great guy, but he’s also a ninja who don’t want her. That makes him enemy #1.

        • Rewind

          True. Perception is the key.

    • lee

      Everyone is over thinking, it’s pretty simple. No one is lying and no one is telling the truth. It’s all about emotions and how one feels and thinks, both think they are right but emotions are subjective. Heck being yourself is subjective. So they need to do is have a talk about the arrangement and how is has changed, why it has changed and what needs to be done, they can either comprise (to still have a relationship or ‘break up’) or disagree (which would still probably mean break up).

  • http://www.alltherightquestions.com T.Q. Fuego

    First things first, excellent post Champ. This is a topic worth discussing. Such a familiar situation that’s sure to start an interesting (and hopefully productive) conversation today.

    Delusional people lie to themselves, douchebags and @ssholes lie to others. Jack did neither so what does that make him? Well in the court of (female) public opinion has decided that it makes him a jerk. D*mned if you do, d*mned if you don’t, and you wanna know why?

    ” But, since Jane is a woman, the socially palatable (read: good) way for him to have dealt with this situation is to assume that Jane’s gender makes her completely unable to be honest about stuff like this. ”

    That’s why. The delusional liar is the victim here clearly. Do better Jack smh.

    ” Basically, the only way for Jack to avoid being considered a douche is to assume Jane—and any other woman who’d say “I’m cool” in a similar situation—isn’t really a-ok with the arrangement, and not sleep with her.”

    This is why Jack shouldn’t give a sh*t about being considered a douche. Following these types of arbitrary rules means he’s supposed to sacrifice his desires for the sake of her feelings that she can’t even be honest with herself about? She’s a grown woman, she should speak up for herself. It can’t be on him to do everything including save her from herself. Their arrangement is an even exchange. He theoretically could catch feelings himself later. Would we hold her to the same standard? What if she friend zoned him? Would we consider her a douche or say he shouldn’t have put himself in that situation? I feel for her a little bit, but this is the game we play. People take losses when they don’t play it the right way.

    • Todd

      You’re nicer than I am in this spot. It’s one thing if they just hit it once or twice. However, since it’s become a regular thing, she’s OK with it on some level. Maybe she just wants to hit. Maybe she thinks a piece of a man she wants, even if it is as a part of a soft harem, is better than working it out with her Magic Wand. Still, she needs to be real with herself and own up to what’s going on.

      I could see how this would blow up in someone’s face, big time. And I wouldn’t put a bit of the responsibility on the dude, especially since he was real from jump.

      • Dignan

        Even if you don’t put responsibility on the dude, though, you’ve got to admit that what the dude is doing is unwise for the long haul, assuming that he cares about keeping her as a friend. And he might even know that it’s unwise, but he’s thinking with the little head at the moment.

        • salaam

          guarantee that he’s thinking short term (extra @ss on demand=win/win) and she’s thinking long term (extra @ass on demand=LTR)…they’re both crazy…

          • http://missrosen.wordpress.com esa

            ~ they’re both crazy

            mais oui. c’est un folie a deux.

            • Dignan

              I need you over here, Esa. I don’t speak any Francais, and I’m definitely losing as a result.

              How soon can you be here?

              • http://missrosen.wordpress.com esa

                ne parle nada darling. i just string together words i’ve heard somewhere else. it usually comes out as Franglish.

                FrenchEnglishSpanishAmericanMess

                • Dignan

                  Dang. Maybe I can get Keisha Brown over here. She’s from Montreal, right? Surely she’s picked up enough to help me negotiate this beautiful mess of a country.

          • 2HourLunchBreak

            i know for sure that’s how the majority of men regard the situation. and if that’s how a significant number of women (maybe those who have been through something like this before) see it, well….

            i guess it’s hard to say who’s wrong and who’s right. I guess it will all become clearer once the proverbial “other shoe” drops.

            and rest assured: that shoe will hit the floor at some point.

            • Rewind

              No it aint. They both wrong as hell.

              It is that simple. That is just a special recipe for stupid disguised as a gender difference problem.

              • Livvin

                what he said!

        • Rewind

          Uhhhh…does anyone ever think long term when it comes to sex?

          Because if they did….most people just wouldn’t have sex.

          • http://www.alltherightquestions.com T.Q. Fuego

            “Because if they did….most people just wouldn’t have sex.”

            So why the hell would we think long term if that’s the end result? You make thinking for the long haul sound like a TERRIBLE idea ijs

            • Rewind

              Taking STDs, pregnancies, & ending up on a dual episode of Judge Mathis & Maury, not having sex just for the hell of it would save a lot of people from being complete idiots.

          • http://missrosen.wordpress.com esa

            ~ Uhhhh…does anyone ever think long term when it comes to sex?

            i do now.

            ~ Because if they did….most people just wouldn’t have sex.

            exactly. less mess !

            • Dignan

              But sometimes it’s fun when it’s messy.

              • http://missrosen.wordpress.com esa

                i shall refrain from incriminating mahhself .. but (smile) let’s just say as pulled together as i can be is a measure of how deeply i can fall apart ~*~

            • Rewind

              See, somebody gets it.

        • http://TheNewEve.com Bunni

          I partially agree…if they were just two passers-by and not friends, then there would be less expectation to consider each other’s feelings. Lets say for the sake of argument that jane is perfectly fine getting a piece of him when she can…the only thing that makes him a douche is f*cking a platonic friend on the regular…if neither of them are looking for a romantic relationship (for the sake of argument), that does no good for their friendship

    • Kema

      The way jack goes about this screams opportunistic a$$hole. I don’t think a woman is wrong for friend zoning. Its when she knows how a man feels about her and uses those feelings to get perks that don’t usually come from just being friends. We can all talk about whether or not Jane is lying but the real question is can you tell when you’re using someone?

      • kid video

        real question is can you tell when you’re using someone?

        Some ppl enjoy being used…even if they say differently.

        If Jack was helpin Jane out with her car/apt note, would he still be “using” her.

        • Kema

          “If Jack was helpin Jane out with her car/apt note, would he still be “using” her.”

          Let’s say they are friends and Jane knows Jack likes her. Remove sex and then apply your statement. Is SHE using him?

          • Marshal

            No, he would be a Friend helping her with her car and repairs in her house.

            Maybe TECHNICALLY, Men pay for Sex with the whole dating and courting process, but if we are going to start nitpicking things now, this “battle of the sexes” will become a full-on stupid war

            • http://twitter.com/inomallday Shamira

              You need so many more people on this one!!! Y’all would be blasting her for taking advantage of the friend zone and whatnot….maaaaaan y’all are lying to yaselves. Come. ON.

              • http://Twitter.com/ktemjin Kaname

                Agreed that he needs more people. On all on the posts about friendzoning (or close bus syndrome as penned by Champ) on this very blog, folks on here would be calling that type of woman a gold digger, fraud etc.

              • http://www.alltherightquestions.com T.Q. Fuego

                @ Shamira- We would see her as being opportunistic and selfish (both human traits), but just as many of us would lambast him for being dumb and putting himself in that situation. I’d also say she didn’t actually do anything wrong if she verbalized that she wasn’t interested in anything but friendship. Dude would be a fool for not cutting his losses and moving on to a better situation

                • http://twitter.com/inomallday Shamira

                  but how is that different from what most girls on here are saying? Some of y’all are acting like we’re letting ol’ girl get off scot free. Not you specifically.

              • au napptural

                Preach it, Shamira! I only logged on to say, if the situation was reversed, Jack had feelings and Jane TOLD HIM OUTRIGHT she didn’t want him and then still asked him to help her move, she would be called everything but a child of God by some VSBs.

                The friend zone is not real. If you either tried to get some girl and she rejected you or you never told her you liked her and she’s with someone else, you need to get over it.

                Now, in the Jack/Jane scenario I thought they were both being stupid, but Jack is being stupider- but it’s got nothing to do with gender. Jane is an idiot b/c either she thinks a piece is better than nothing with Jack OR she thinks being a booty call is going to further he chances with Jack. Either way, dumb@ss.

                But Jack…Lord, Lord, Jack. Jack does not have feelings for Jane and apparently has other options. So in guyspeak, he’s giving maximum risk for min. reward. Sex ALWAYS has strings attached. I’m going to assume for a min. Jane is telling the truth. So. Let’s keep it REAL. With the “good girl” who you know isn’t banging anyone else you feel safe. You might go hands-free and oops- nine months later a baby. Or herpes. Or god knows what else. Or the other women you are dating find out and some Petreaus type sh!t goes down. B/c well no one should assume the person you are dating is exclusive until it is said out loud, men calculate their actions to have the widest possible room for misinterpretation.

                I guarantee you, Jack didn’t tell his date,”I just got some hellified head before I took you to the movies.”

                In conclusion, this brings me back to the point I made yesterday. What the hell are these men about. Wow, for the sake of having booty on-call you have now put yourself in a perilous, perilous position. Even if Jane is telling the truth all kinds of consequences can abound from having multiple sex partners, sometimes in a day. And further even if no “bad things” happen, is that who you want to be? Someone who throws out every bit of common sense in pursuit of sex. Cuz Champ said, we are assuming Jane is a liar b/c she’s a woman. Naw. We assume Jane is a liar, b/c people in that situation are liars 99% of the time. If a man said to me in the club he wanted to wife me or some nonsense and I believed him and slept with him, everyone on here would call me an idiot. So I call BS on Jack. He didn’t believe her for a min., but he knew pretending to would get him some sexual benefits. And when things went wrong, as he suspected they would, he could say “she said she was ok with it.”

                • Kema

                  9 months later SIMILAC!

          • kid video

            Then she benefits by keeping cash in her pockets…and he walks around with blueballs

            And he stills gets to be seen as a “good guy”.

            WIN-WIN FOR EVERYBODY!

            • Kema

              No! She would be using him. She would know it and her friends wouldnt even be surprised when he started to show signs of the irrational.

          • Rewind

            H.E.L.L YEAH

          • a boy and his demondog 06

            yes….yes she is

            but he’d be the idiot for trying to buy her love

            • Marshal

              Thank You, Shamira and Kaname are on the PC steez today. I got all the People, Witnesses and Common Sense for this topic

              • http://twitter.com/inomallday Shamira

                how am I being PC by saying that she is stupid but he is ALSO wrong? Nobody is winning here. Common sense indicates this never works out.

              • http://twitter.com/ktemjin Kaname

                PC steez? I haven’t even commented on the actual situation that Champ discussed in his post so please read better.

        • Joanna

          Am I the only person who thinks that Jane would be una mujer publica Jack was helping her with bills while he…serviced…himself with her?

      • http://missrosen.wordpress.com esa

        ~ the real question is can you tell when you’re using someone?

        yep. for me it it involves too much rationalizing. too much tit-for-tatting. too much mathematics, linguistic tricks, balancing tricks.

        my go-to pathology is martyr (“use me!” which is actually a totally passive aggressive form of using). yukk.

        now, whenever it gets triggered i realize i am in the presence of someone i need to move far, far away from.

        • salaam

          :”yep. for me it it involves too much rationalizing. too much tit-for-tatting. too much mathematics, linguistic tricks, balancing tricks.”

          and there you have it….well said as ususal esa…*looking for glitter to throw*

          • http://missrosen.wordpress.com esa

            (smile) oo i love sparkly tings ~*~

      • Rewind

        If she used him for free dinner dates, a confidant to express all her feelings to, a free ride anywhere she wanted to go, or the random person she can call when she needs heavy lifting or repair work in her home done…HOW THE F*CK WOULD THAT NOT EQUAL TO A MAN JUST WANTING TO HAVE SEX?

        Everybody uses everybody,there’s not a woman alive in a first world country that hasn’t manipulated a man she couldn’t give 2 sh*ts about even if she had another as-shole just for the hell of it…so we need to stop this idea that somehow it is wrong that some dudes just want to beat. Yall are definitely no better.

        • Marshal

          Rewind with the thunderous dunk comment of the day (thus far in my Marv Albert voice)

          • Rewind

            I imagined his voice in my head with your comment, and now my ribs hurt.

        • Dignan

          Agree regarding Rewind having a DeAndre Jordan moment.

          • Rewind

            I’m having images of me hang glide dunking in slow motion now.

        • Kema

          Its wrong when a man does it and its wrong when women do it. I dont use the people I consider friends.

          • Rewind

            Nor would I…but we all have at least once. None of us have been angels our entire lives. We’ve all made mistakes, I’m sure there is someone in your past or present who may have felt used by you at some point, and I definitely can say the same for myself.

            The point is though, if you get to a point where you realize using people for your own selfish benefits is wrong, you just don’t do it anymore unless you plan on recipricating.

          • http://TheNewEve.com Bunni

            Thats the whole point here….its not about just using SOMEONE. We can all decide to not give a rat’s azzcrack about a random person….but a close friend SHOULD yield more consideration…they should both take their manipulation somewhere else if the friendship means anything to them….

            which leads me to another idea…sometimes we (men and women) mistake a long-term courtship as friendship…maybe these heffalumps aint really friends to begin with…

            • Rewind

              You might have a point, male/female friendships are sometimes really just real long-term limited dating scenarios.

            • http://www.alltherightquestions.com T.Q. Fuego

              “which leads me to another idea…sometimes we (men and women) mistake a long-term courtship as friendship…maybe these heffalumps aint really friends to begin with…”

              Exactly! This is why Champ and others are skeptical of the idea of male/female “friendships” in the first place.

          • a boy and his demondog 06

            it’s not wrong if you both know that you’re doing it

        • http://twitter.com/inomallday Shamira

          But that’s the point!! That’s wrong too and y’all would be ranting all the live long day.

          They were both wrong. But Jack is being extra shady and people out here are tryna act like he didn’t put himself in that situation.

          • Rewind

            Jack isn’t being shady. He’s being dumb. He,like most people, is trying to stretch 1 thing into 10 things, because by nature, people are greedy. She is too, hence the whole reason they had sex to begin with.

            • http://twitter.com/inomallday Shamira

              i’ll accept that clarification.

      • a boy and his demondog 06

        everyone uses and gets used by others….the distinction is in if rather or not on is MISUSING the other…..big difference

        • http://missrosen.wordpress.com esa

          ~ everyone uses and gets used by others

          i respectfully disagree. “everyone” is a big word.

          some people share. some people collaborate. some people relinquish their egos in service of the greater good.

          and some people do both, give and take, use and collaborate. i think the way people interrelate is fairly complex and a matter of where they are in their own personal development ..

          • a boy and his demondog 06

            semantics..
            regardless of how you choose to phrase it…it’s still using a resource to achieve something, be mutual or for self…..

            it gets into miss use when however you use said person and/or resource is to the detriment of said person and/or resource

            • http://missrosen.wordpress.com esa

              mmmokay. i dont like it for reasons that are deeper than semantics but i understand and agree with the larger point you are making.

    • Doug

      T.Q. Fuego, you bring up a good point in comparing a female letting a guy she has feelings for hit vs. a guy getting friend zoned by a girl he has feelings for. I really think that is a societal double standard, I mean we are conditioned to heavily sympathize with the girl willing to do anything to be with the guy she wants, however, I feel like while there is some empathy for the friend zone guy there really is less identification with that guy.

  • nillalatte

    “a fact he made very blunt after they slept together the first time”

    This here is the problem. Ground rules weren’t there BEFORE they got down to business. Would Jane have still gotten down wit role boy knowing that going in? Maybe, maybe not. old boy sounds opportunistic to me. wants the cake & eat it too, so to speak. Jane could have been okay with that arrangement in the beginning, but time has a way of chaning things.

    • IcePrincess3

      Na, she been had feelings for him for a while. That’s why she shoulda “locked down the p*ssy. Clink clink! *madea voice* Instead, she created her own prison of heartache. We as ladies, need to wise up. #loveisabattlefield

      • http://missrosen.wordpress.com esa

        thas all folks ~*~

      • cynicaloptmst81

        + infinity!

      • a boy and his demondog 06

        yup!

        dude is not the bad guy in this case…but neither is she.

    • Todd

      Well, you may be right, but once she consented to sex, she did it to herself. Why give him some on something that’s obviously casual when you clearly only want to hump in a relationship context with dude?

      • gemgirl

        why assume she only wants it in a relationship context? if its good chex with a person she’s comfortable with, why can’t she want it for just that?

        • http://www.alltherightquestions.com T.Q. Fuego

          @ Gemgirl- Exactly, which is why I don’t think dude was in the wrong. All he did was not assume anything that wasn’t stated. She could’ve felt the same way he did for all he knows.

          • gemgirl

            I don’t think he’s doing anything wrong at all, as long as he’s being honest i.e she knows or would know if she wanted to about his dating other women, and he’s not selling a dream that maybe one day in the future he may be in the “space” for a relationship

      • Dee

        Timing is everything. If he mentioned that before they had sex I seriously doubt she would have continued. However, since she already slept with him, a lot of women would rather just continue sleeping with that same person if there is not anyone she is currently dating or sleeping with.

    • http://www.twitter.com/Bmorebmw Tentpole

      This is one of those things that happened, that both thought would never happen ergo it would have never needed to have been discussed. Jane and Jack appears not to have any other signifcant people concers. The only problem here is the way it effect you.

    • Rewind

      Why wouldn’t he be oppurtunistic? She willingly put the p*ssy on a platter, and it is wrong for him to say thank you?

      What part of the game is that?

      Nah man. She was digging him for a while, but waited for a good moment to get things popping. She found it and she liked it. But if he clarifies after sex “we aint going there”, it becomes her mistake for letting a single moment of good sex to change the entire foundation of her friendship with him.

      He isn’t off the hook either, but who has more to lose; him or her? She does. So more responsibiity lies on her part.

      Besides.. the f*ck else do you do with cake but eat it?

      • h.h.h.

        “Besides.. the f*ck else do you do with cake but eat it?”

        uhm…Look back at it?

        #2chainz

        • Rewind

          you stoooooooooooooooopid. I had to laugh.

        • a boy and his demondog 06

          put it in your bosses chair?

          smuggle weapons and drugs to a 5 year olds b-day party?

          replace frosting with shaving cream, leave in break room and watch the good times roll

          • http://saysmeblog.wordpress.com/ Aly

            You’re an evil genius.

            • a boy and his demondog 06

              the only kind of genius there is babe…..

      • missritac

        I’m not mad at Jack, Jane got the game messed up. She had feelings before they got down and they got stronger after they got down. The post said they were drunk, that means Jack put that drunk peen on her and now she’s really hooked.

        Jane thinks she can sleep with Jack until he is so in love with the cakes that he’ll eventually wife her up. She thinks if she plays her potition right and keep being his go to girl he will eventually see her as the one and he will end up with her. This is the game Jane is playing. They are both going to end up hurt…Jack will end up with busted windows and a stalker and Jane will end up with a broken heart when her brain finally realizes that Jack was being honest when he said he didn’t want more than a friendship and casual s*x.

        • http://saysmeblog.wordpress.com/ Aly

          “Jack put that drunk peen on her and now she’s really hooked.”

          Word. Drunk peen ain’t no joke, man.

          • Kema

            Right up there with high fun drugs peen! Wait… only me? *bows head*

            • http://saysmeblog.wordpress.com/ Aly

              You KNOW you’re not the only one lol. *wink wink*

              • Kema

                Giggity Giggity!

                • Rewind

                  Yall some damn fools.

                  And now I know if Aly is single and I have a single friend, she’s having more drinks that night.

                  • missritac

                    Women appreciate drunk peen…sharing info is caring lol

                    • Kema

                      It just cant be sloopy drunk.

            • missritac

              You are not alone in that…high peen ain’t no joke either lol. That drunk peen is never ending…have you walking sideways the next day!

        • Rewind

          Ooooooh so that’s why all these crazy baby mommas running around here with kids named after liquor bottles?

          And all this time I was using my drunk peen for good. smh.

          Well to your point..only thing I’m saying is…playing Jill’s game is fruitless. I can never understand why anyone would that that’s a viable option. Even if he did like her in the end, does that not mean her only good point was p*ssy? That nothing else she had to offer was good enough to sway him but months and months of sex? Like literally, that’s the gold medal people want?

          • missritac

            I have seen it happen numerous times, and it always ends badly. I always tell my girlfriends to listen to what a man is telling them. P*ussy ain’t never kept a man so why women play this game, I’ll never know. I wouldn’t want to be with a man who was only with me because of the p*ssy. Maybe women like this think that since they were “friends” first, him knowing her he must like her a little bit and the p*ssy is the icing on the cake. I don’t know how it works…I tend to end up with the guys who were f*ck buddies, and I treat them as such and they still end up wanting more. *Kanye shrug* guess the friends with benefits game only really benefits one person. I believe in self preservation, clearly Jane does not.

            • Kema

              “I tend to end up with the guys who were f*ck buddies, and I treat them as such and they still end up wanting more”

              From this I see missritac “treats em like a prostitute”.

              • missritac

                Lol, I call them and tell them to come over when I want to see them, then send them home. I’m not chillin and spending time…that’s GF stuff. I have no love for these hoes lol. I need a new buddy though…

                • KENYADIGIT

                  Ahem!.. *Walks by flexing trapezius muscles*

                  • missritac

                    You in the DMV and over 6’1? I’m 5’11 lol.

                    • KENYADIGIT

                      Yes on both counts. I’m over 6,3 when i got nothing but Tims on. lol

                    • missritac

                      Let me find out I could possibly have found a new buddy on VSB lol.

                    • http://Www.twitter.com/daperdany Kenyadigit

                      Maybe so lol. I will just leave this here.

                      @daperdany

                    • missritac

                      @MissRita1982, although I’m more of a FB girl lol

      • Teeuhh

        you leave it there bc you know it isn’t good for you. so dudes have to partake in every piece of cake that is sliced up and plated? yall gotta take more responsibility and be able to discriminate. You dont have to take everything that is offered to you.

        • au napptural

          Please tell them again, cuz they don’t here you! Then when they got diabetes they be the first ones asking “why did this happen to me.”

          • Teeuhh

            ^^^ say it again!

    • http://www.youtube.com/remthemulatto RemTheMulatto

      I personally think human nature is to take advantage of everything available within reason (tax loop holes, free soda at Chipotle in my water cup, 304s, etc). If someone consents, it almost feels like you are in the clear for doing something that normally ain’t kosher.. When the ish hits the fan, the defense is simple.. You said it was cool. We’re all grown..

      I wouldn’t call her a liar though.. Denial is a hell of a drug.

  • IcePrincess3

    Nope, jack isn’t the douche. SHE is! She played herself from the beginning, knowing she had feelings. Everybody aint built for this FWB sh*t. Time for her to put on her big girl panties & admit it.

    • Todd

      AMEN!

    • Marshal

      BRAVO!!!!!! IcePrincess3 with the long drive in the upper decks!!!

    • http://blogs.24.com/mosnative/ Mos_Native

      And that’s a wrap folks.

    • http://TheNewEve.com Bunni

      But we’re assuming shes even bothered by this….the story doesnt mention “and then Jane ran off and cried tears into her pillow” ….she might could be able to keep her feelings in check in the name of good s3x…lets not underestimate a woman’s ability to be chauvinistic here….

      • AnGe

        +1

        Yeah, seeing A LOT of assumptions that the chick is slowly dying inside. I’ve known girls in this position and anyone over the age of 21 is not sitting around the house waiting for the 3am booty call.

    • Bedrock Obama

      I approve this message

    • SantofaLAdy

      THIS!

      Realizing I am not build for this FWB life keeps me out of the crossfire and feeling intact.

  • minxbrie

    But wait, this boy would go to her house BEFORE a date to get some?!

    That is where I must draw the line at this ish, the hell you think you are having a plate of pasta before a big dinner?! That’s just gluttony.

    • IcePrincess3

      Okaaaaay?! Lol

      • minxbrie

        When I get ranty, I start using analogies.

        I’m upset for that small tidbit alone, because it sounds to me like he doesn’t even respect her as a friend anymore now that they’re sleeping together.

        • minxbrie

          Please free me! :)

        • http://TheNewEve.com Bunni

          agreed, agreed, agreed.

    • http://commentarybyvalentina.wordpress.com/ Val

      It takes the pressure off of him during the date. Now he doesn’t have to worry about sex with the date because he’s already had sex.

      • IcePrincess3

        I mean, If u are anybody’s pre-date nut, jus do the world a favor and #killyoself

        • sahel

          makes sense. get the sex out of the way and get down to talking about the future and what to make the sex better lol

        • http://commentarybyvalentina.wordpress.com/ Val

          But, IP, she apparently got what she wanted too.

          • IcePrincess3

            Wrong, cuz what she wants is HIM. Girl you kno she was dying inside when he went on that date. It’s just sad & pathetic.

            • gemgirl

              It clearly says she is still dating also : “they still share dating war stories”. I’m quite annoyed everyone seems to immediately cast Jane in victim role

              • http://TheNewEve.com Bunni

                I dont think shes a victim at all. I actually think shes being honest, cuz she has her own thang going on as well…who’s to say she doesnt have a date soon as Jack leaves for his?

                • gemgirl

                  Exactly. Everyone seemed to miss that part. I also think there’s a possibility she’s being honest. It may be easier for her to sleep with someone she already knows and has decent sex with while auditioning other guys.

                  • IcePrincess3

                    True enuf. But I wonder how much of her “war stories” are just her flexin? Lets not act like we won’t try to make a muf*cka jealous….

                    • gemgirl

                      This is true. Jane might need more people. I just dislike the generalization that all women are the same way

        • missritac

          How you could let yourself be someone’s predate nut is beyond me. Speaks volumes about this girls self esteem. Like really, who knowingly sleeps with a dude before he goes out on a date with another woman…hell after he goes on a date with another woman? Just terrible. Go find your self esteem and give it a hug and ask for forgiveness, Sheesh!

          • Rewind

            Nah..I could do it. If it was simply just being f*ck buddies…I could careless what she’s doing after we are done, probably because it was me, my clothes would be on after the event was over.

            No feelings should be allowed in this scenario, yet they are all over the place.

            • missritac

              Clearly Jack doesn’t give a f*ck about the friendship or Jane. There is no way I could do anything like that to anyone I called a friend. For me a f*ck buddy is someone I call when it’s time to f*ck and that’s it, we ain’t friends, I don’t have time for that, so if they had that type of “relationship” I could be ok with the before/after date with someone else s*x, it’s not the other person’s business in that case. But this girl KNOWS what the deal is all the way around and is still putting up with it. Jack has got to have the magic stick. She wouldn’t be going through all this for wack peen.

              • Joanna

                I agree. If they weren’t friends–hey, stuff happens. But because they are, even though they are currently bedmates, I’d hope they would respect each other enough not to use each other as a predate fix. Seems tacky. And sketch. Like, are you showering before this date?!

                • missritac

                  The whole situation is sticky as h*ll, like as a woman I have no understanding on how she can allow this. Jack better take a d@mn shower or at least wipe down with some baby wipes, that’s just ewwwwwww!!!!

      • Todd

        Ding ding ding! Now I’ve done this before, especially during my swing days. Now, they knew what the drill was, and was thinking the same thing on their end too. It’s much easier to go through a date without thinking “will she sleep with me?” for the next 4-5 hours.

        • SweetSass

          And look who you ended up with. #case closed

          • Todd

            Touche! I’m an honest dealer.

      • Rewind

        Val is a genius. She gets it.

    • kid video

      Having sex before a date takes away the thrist while on said date…the guy can listen to you and not be thinkin about hittin it. At least not that night.

      • minxbrie

        See, no. You have a hand. She’s being disrespectful to herself by allowing him through her door when that’s his intention. I get it, they’re FWB’s, it’s a gray area and without communication a lot of feelings can get hurt – but you’re allowed to set limits. It doesn’t matter what he thinks because if he’s sleeping with you on the side, he can probably find someone else.

        I also don’t understand why some women insist on lying to themselves that this is something that they’re okay with, when they’re not – there’s nothing wrong with being unable to just be “casual” with someone.

        My roommate last year went through something similar to this and assumed that just because I have no issues with casual relationships, she could do it too. She ended up thinking she was going to end up in a relationship with a guy that she didn’t even LIKE that much because she thought having sex with him would start to mean something and she wanted to be in a relationship again. I had to tell her she was being rude to herself.

        This is also why you DON’T become friends with benefits with someone you’re already close friends with. You pretty much end up in a relationship that’s just asking for someone to get hurt.

        • Todd

          Now tell this to all the women you know. Each one, teach one.

        • Rewind

          I’m glad you put that much thought into it.

          But should you find yourself in a situation with a close friend that somehow turns your p*ssy on fire during a particular moment and you succumb to those inner thoughts slowly….are you going to remember everything you just said here?

          I’d like to think you would, but chances are, its 50/50. And therein lies the problem. In theory, we all know what to do. In practice….not so much.

          • minxbrie

            Rewind, the thought of me sleeping with one of my close male friends actually turns my stomach. They’re like brothers to me. I am now a little upset that you put that kind of thought into my head-space.

            It’s not about in theory knowing what to do, it’s about knowing yourself and YOUR boundaries. My boundaries include no sleepovers, no dates, and DO NOT show up to my house before a date because I will tell you something about yourself. But other people will have different boundaries.

            If she’s perfectly okay with being treated like a filler, that’s cool. But if she has feelings for him and thinks this will lead to something, she needs to put on her big girl bra and tell him how she feels.

            • Rewind

              Ok then Minx, then all this means is that you have prioritized what people mean to you.

              So you’re good on that front. I’m just asking you to understand how many people are not that fortunate.

              I am close to a lot of women. There is always going to be a side of me that looks at them as nothing more than tits & ass, that’s part of being a man. But the part of me that is smart and caring, the part that fundamentally makes me the person I am, would never cross that line, would never look at my female friends in that manner. So I get your point. But I don’t know other men who could say the same thing in my place.

      • Fivegirl

        He could beat the meat if its that’s serious. As I said down thread, its really just rude. If you found out your date had just left another man’s bed, you’d be lying if you said you weren’t tight.

        • kid video

          If you found out your date had just left another man’s bed, you’d be lying

          As long as she dont smell like sweat and jizz…

          • Todd

            WORD! Hey, if it works out, I might send dude one of those Edible Arrangement things for warming up the nani for me. Why wait to get to gettin’? ;)

            • Dignan

              Son, you ain’t right.

            • Marshal

              FOTBL

        • Rewind

          Uhhh…do you know how many men the average woman comes in contact with every day?

          I’d be stupid not to think there was a d*ck in her before I even said hello to her that day.

    • h.h.h.

      “That is where I must draw the line at this ish, the hell you think you are having a plate of pasta before a big dinner?! That’s just gluttony.”

      or maybe it’s like having a glass of water before your dinner? calms your appetite?

      • a boy and his demondog 06

        naw it’s getting that preliminary nut off before you go beat the brakes off other gal’s cooch

    • a boy and his demondog 06

      and how would you know? it’s not like he’d tell you that.

      and besides, let’s keep it 1 hunna, ya’ll let us get away with murder when we put that d1ck to you right

      • MissRitaC

        Jack has got to be laying the meanest pipe ever for this shit to go down. I have to agree with this.

  • http://commentarybyvalentina.wordpress.com/ Val

    Sometimes people put themselves in difficult situations for reasons not readily apparent. If one is used to not getting what they really want in relationships this can become a model for all of their relationships.

    So, she may be fine with this relationship being the way it is because that’s the kind of relationships she’s had in the past.

    Therefore, if that’s the case then she’s not lying. She’s getting what she’s used to and it’s okay with her. Some people are more than willing to settle for less. Less being better than nothing, in their way of thinking.

    • Todd

      I can’t agree with this enough. There are a LOT of women who love to be the #2 option (or #3 or #4 or #5) if it means getting access to a dude under the circumstances they like. Heck, some prefer it because they can have access to a guy when they want without having to deal with the real intimate parts of his life.

      • http://commentarybyvalentina.wordpress.com/ Val

        “…some prefer it because they can have access to a guy when they want without having to deal with the real intimate parts of his life.”

        That’s true, Todd.

    • Rewind

      It is hard to imagine that some people are so selfish that they’d limit what they could have, just to say they have it.

      Yet it happens all the time. You’re right.

      • http://commentarybyvalentina.wordpress.com/ Val

        I’m not sure if it’s selfishness or just a deep desire to feel fulfilled, even if that means not getting all of what you want.

        • Rewind

          It is selfishness. Even the desire to be wanted or have your needs fulfilled is selfish and inspires us to do selfish things.

          • http://missrosen.wordpress.com esa

            the best thing (for me) is to fulfill my own wants and needs. this way i don’t place my burden on other people ~*~

            • http://commentarybyvalentina.wordpress.com/ Val

              Is is really possible for a person to fulfill all of their needs, Esa? We’re social beings so don’t we sometimes need others to at least help us fulfill our needs?

              • http://missrosen.wordpress.com esa

                you are right. i know that greater things come through connection and communion.

                but i’ve always been quite reticent to allow myself to be vulnerable in this regard.

                not that i havent done it, i’ve just done it with the wrong people and for that i have had to pay ..

                but. i am open to possibility. that there are greater things than i have allowed into my life.

                still, it is challenging to be make my needs known. trust is a muuuuhfukkaaaaa.

                but. back to your point. i agree ~*~

          • http://commentarybyvalentina.wordpress.com/ Val

            I guess you’re right, Rewind. But, a certain amount of selfishness is healthy.

  • Fafa

    How exactly is the arrangement a ‘fair’ exchange. He knows she has feelings for him because she must have told him so. The rules should have been set before the first check session. This is just another excuse that guys use to justify their bad behavior. I for one feel sorry for any female child that Jack may have in the future. If he ever really cared for her as a friend or just another human being, he should end this for both their sake

    • Rewind

      And this is a total fail.

    • Charlie

      Cause Jane can’t make her own decisions?

    • a boy and his demondog 06

      in no place in this scenario did she ever mention her feelings to jack…

      i’m willing to bet the family fortune, that pretty much every guy on here has dealt with a chick that hid how they felt and pretended to be cool with just being FWB.

      dudes are opportunist’s by nature…Sex without all of the emotions and foolishness?!…..yes i’ll take 2 of those and an order of fries

    • au napptural

      Agreed. There’s the “gray area” people use to justify foolishness and there is right and wrong. This is wrong. I already explained why upthread. But this why people are running around with bad karma, slashed tires and busted windows. Y’all don’t think fat meat is greasy. You can see this is a bad idea, but nooooo pussy is involved, gotta have some. Some of these men on here need to grow up. You aren’t a real man till you have turned down some pussy on a platter. Grown-ups can think about consequences and decide whether or not they want to deal. They don’t just fall on the pussy/dick and go “oh, well.” That’s ignorant.

  • http://Msalisarenee.blogspot.com Alisa

    Yeah, Jane’s lying. But regardless, Jack needs to leave it alone and stop sexing her. Situations like this always tend to get pretty ugly at some point.

    • msdebbs

      +1milli

    • kid video

      Jack needs to leave it alone and stop sexing her

      How would that benefit him, and Jane is not a child but she seems like she needs someone to act in her best interest.

      You cant be an independant woman who owns her sexuality one minute, and then turn victim when you cant justify(in her mind) the sex shes getting because it makes her feel “ho’ish”.

      • Marshal

        “You cant be an independant woman who owns her sexuality one minute, and then turn victim when you cant justify(in her mind) the sex shes getting because it makes her feel “ho’ish”.

        Can a VSB get a Amen??? There needs to be a thorough book or manifesto about this, and I don’t mean the Steve Harvey kind

        • salaam

          i’ll give you an amen on this one…

      • http://TheNewEve.com Bunni

        True. Owning one’s sexuality means understanding that some of your desires wont fair well with public opinion….and thats ok. You’re only a ho if you feel like a ho. I still firmly believe that Jane is just as douche-y as Jack and is using him as well.

        • http://www.alltherightquestions.com T.Q. Fuego

          Thank u kid video! You can’t have it both ways. Either you’re sexually liberated and own ur sh*t or you’re a stereotypical woman who ain’t bout that life. FYI Jack could’ve caught feelings too in real life, feelings aren’t simply a female thing.

          Whoever said something about Jack’s future daughter, my response is if he’s smart he’ll share this story with his daughter (who would realize that he’s not a douche, just a human being) so she would see that single people have their own responsibilities and everyone ain’t built for casual sex, even some who want to be and think they are.

          • au napptural

            It’s got nothing to do with being liberated. Jack needs to look out for Jack’s best interest. That means if you see this could be a problem long term you don’t do it. Jack is fucking up Jack’s life, not Jane’s. Jane may get hurt b/c of Jane’s foolishness, bad decisions and lies, but that’s on Jane. But all busted windows, HIV and OOW children will be on Jack. He knew before he laid down this had the potential to get ugly. He keeps lying down, he accepted responsibility, Jane too. Shoot, niggas love to talk about keep your legs closed- keep your dick in your pants! You gotta fuck everything that moves? Well, that comes with consequences.

            • dtafakari

              preeaach.

      • Rewind

        And the truth shall set you free!

      • SweetSass

        Being a good person means sometimes doing things that don’t immediately benefit you. It’s called being self-less.

        lol. basic.

        • Marshal

          When you decide to get an Epiphany, become Self-Less yourself and become Saint SweetSass, I MIGHT consider believing you….

          Until then, please realize this is Reality and the Real World doesn’t work that way 100% of the time

          • SweetSass

            You may have resigned to the fact that you’re not a good person, but don’t assume that is everyone reality.

            • Marshal

              I’m as Real and Honest as I Can and Want to be, When I Want to. To Whomever I Want to be Honest and Real With. Simple as That. That’s Reality and Life as it is Now in these Very Moments.

              If you can’t Accept that, that’s Your Problem, not Mine

      • dtafakari

        He may have a right to act in his own best interest and smang, but IJS… THIS is how tires get slashed. Nobody wins here.

  • The Other Jerome

    If i get involved with someone and i know we have no future together, should i warn them?

    Even if she’s fine?

    And if i do warn her and she decided to proceed by assuring me that she’s a “big girl she can take it”, am i still a jerk if jump on board for what will be a short and likely turbulent ride?

    I mean, if my G is more futuristic than her’s is and i see the iceberg, shouldn’t i warn her. And if i benefit from not warning her, that doesn’t absolve me i think.

    I’ve been in that situation before. I warned her that it wasn’t going to work. Then allowed myself to be talked into it. And of course it didn’t work out. The compatibility just want there. But at least my conscious was clear and we both grew from it.

    In Champs scenario, yes the woman is lying to herself. But just like the grade school student who refuses to do their home work, if you care about them you’ll force them to do it. If Champs friend really cared about her….. or at least was thinking about the consequences, he’d save their friendship and stop things before they get out of hand.

    Don’t get me wrong. There are plenty of woman who are cool with just being cut-buddies. People who have been platonic friends for several years however, never fit in that category. I’m sure Jack knows that every time he “goes in” :-/

    • http://X Thriller

      DING DING we have a winner.

      I bet most men have been in this situation before. Jack must know what he’s doing and he must not value their friendship that much. His only excuse can be a lack of experience with women.

      You can’t be FWB’s with someone you really are genuine close friends with. There should already be a level of real love there and constant intimacy takes things too far. IMO Jack doesn’t care about Jane that much. He should know what type of girl she is at this stage too.

      He probably knows she gives it too early in the hope of a relationship.

      C’mon you can’t spend a lot of time with a girl AND be sexing her and seriously expect things to be gravy. Two things that help women catch feelings everyday.

      In conclusion, Jack ain’t sh*t.

    • Ani-Q

      Agreed!

      They are both liars, to themselves and their supposed friendship. If either really cared for each other, it would have been very difficult to use each other.

      • http://missrosen.wordpress.com esa

        ~ If either really cared for each other, it would have been very difficult to use each other.

        yes. the word ~respect~ keeps flashing in my head. for me, respect is holding oneself to the highest integrity. that means putting the greater good before the self. it means saying no to things that have the obvious potential to blow up in your face.

        • Rewind

          But how many people actually learn to have respect for anything like that?

          You have to have a serious fall from grace in order to learn respect like that.

          • http://missrosen.wordpress.com esa

            one person is enough. two is a God send. three is a party. four is a movement.

            i have faith ~*~

            • Rewind

              I do to.

              I also have faith that they will invent ice cream that never melts.

              • http://missrosen.wordpress.com esa

                man. dairy is so eeew. i wouldnt wanna know what they do to make it defy temperate conditions.

              • Ani-Q

                But then how will I lick it?
                Thats the fun in ice cream. Melting from the heat of my mouth… :)

                • h.h.h.

                  “But then how will I lick it?”

                  #ThatsWhatSheAsked

        • Ani-Q

          Yes!
          All of this!!!

    • Zeus_23

      “he’d save their friendship and stop things before they get out of hand.”

      Question: At this point, is their friendship even salvageable? Maybe Jack has already realized this after the first “accidental” smash & is gettin all the good he can before the ticking time bomb goes off…

      • Marshal

        Aren’t Friendships ALSO Subjective in the same way Intimate Relationships and Marriages are Subjective? Is there a blanket script that is a Friendship that everyone has to follow now? Damn, we say we are Unique and Special (in our own rights) an yet many are also saying Be Followers……

        Sounds Contradictory or Hypocritical IMHO. Sheit, if we Black folks Aren’t Monolithic, and neither are Men and Women as a whole then Friendships aren’t Monolithic either

        • http://www.alltherightquestions.com T.Q. Fuego

          That’s what I’m saying Marshal. I’m gettin conflicting messages here. Apparently women are a monolith. He was taking her word that she enjoyed the arrangement. Treating her like an individual and not making any assumptions.

        • a boy and his demondog 06

          excellent points. we all claim to be unique little unicorns…but when we speak of others situations….we speak in absolutes

          like there is no room for the grey area that is life

      • http://saysmeblog.wordpress.com/ Aly

        “At this point, is their friendship even salvageable?”

        No. And honestly, I don’t think they ever really had a true, platonic relationship. It sounds like they’ve always been attracted to each other and have just been biding their time, waiting for the opportunity to sleep together. The only problem is, their end games were different. She wants a relationship, he wants sex.

        • salaam

          +1

        • Rewind

          That depends Aly. Maybe it was platonic for him, and not for her. But as soon as sex became a viable option after being liquored up, then yes, I agree.

          I’ve been in plenty of situations with drunk women who were my friends. I could have taken advantage ALL of those times. Yet no matter how tipsy I was, I never did. Never felt right. Clearly this dude felt different.

        • Ani-Q

          Yep…thats why I think both are liars about their friendship. They were using each other.

    • SweetSass

      I don’t think I’ve ever heard of a guy who will tell a woman BEFORE smanging he sees no future with her.

      Usually he will tell her anything up to and including his intense desire to settle down with the right lady (implication she is it) and then flip the script once he has what he wants.

      Be honest here.

      • Freebird

        “I don’t think I’ve ever heard of a guy who will tell a woman BEFORE smanging he sees no future with her.”

        *Raises hand*

        • SweetSass

          I need a witness.

          • Freebird

            I keep them handy counselor.

      • BriA

        SweetSass, I agree. After the deed is done, they start backtracking. That’s why I respect the man who tells me upfront that’s all he is looking for. Because if I continue on with him, then the blame is solely on me. With that being said, I had a guy tell me that up front and I didn’t waste not nan nother second on him.

      • au napptural

        Preach it! It’s easy to pretend women are falling for “game” and using “women logic” and are just irrational people, but the truth is men lie to your face. They calculate their statements to have the maximum room for misinterpretation. You can pretty much assume everything a guy says to you, up to a certain time, is a lie. If you have sex, that’s when the truth comes out. And even if the guy says he just wants sex, it’s still calculated. Who did he say it to and WHEN did he say it? He didn’t say that to his “friend” before they had sex, he wanted till after.

      • Marshal

        Hi, SweetSass, my name is Marshal and I typically Do tell Women that I’m NOT looking for a Relationship- Right Away- and just want to Enjoy the Time and Experiences with them, with OR WITHOUT Sex.

        You can take a whole upper deck of _/_/_/_/_/_/_/s Ma’am. Just because YOU haven’t heard some Men say that, doesn’t mean No Men have said it

        • salaam

          y’all got me gigglin’ today…

        • SweetSass

          Nope.

          You don’t do it. Already you making caveats.

          You never had told a broad straight up in her face “I have no desire to be with you long term” and chexed afterwards.

          That is not the same thing as saying “I am not looking for a relationship – right away.”

          You have a SEAT, sir!

          • Kema

            Everyone knows women take that as “If I work harder…” lol!

          • Marshal

            I’m sorry, are you a member of the “Big Brother Government” that has wing nuts arming themselves to the teeth for the upcoming Insurrection?? No?? Okay, so proceed to STFU Assuming you Know a damn thing about me or my Personal Life. Why do I, a Total Stranger, need to Lie to YOU???? Fcuk out of here with that Bullshyte

    • AnGe

      Well said but I tend to believe sometimes relations aren’t “constructive” in the traditional sense of the word. Sometimes we have people in are life that are feeding a current insecurity or are magnifying a glitch in personality.

      Maybe this girl does have some self esteem issues. After being his sperm receptacle for a while maybe she’ll look at herself and see that she deserves and can do better. Maybe she doesn’t have the backbone yet to communicate to a man what she wants from a relationship. This fwb relationship she has now is what she can handle. Its providing some sort of security blanket or nurturing some wound she has. There’s a reason she’s willing to lie to herself and that doesn’t make her or him a jerk.

      They’re using each other and each one know where the other one stands. Any harm done here would be self inflicted.

      • Freebird

        +1

  • Fivegirl

    I get where you’re coming from, but I disagree with the fact that Jane is a liar and thus Jack a douchebag. Like some earlier commenters, I do think that banging someone before a date is a douche move. if i realized that the guy across the dinner table was still smelling another girl on his top lip during dessert, I’d be pretty mad. Other than that, all I see is two consulting adults having shex.

    Women have shexual urges too. it is entirely possible that Jane has slight feelings for Jack, but they clearly weren’t that deep or she would have initiated something at another point in their long friendship. maybe Jane has been having a dry spell and Jack’s pipe game is proper. In that case, she might be willing to brush off her feelings so she can get laid.

    The idea that if someone lies about their feelings then it should not be reflected on their partner is sound. However, I am just TIRED of these generalizations that women can not be shexual beings the same ways that men can.

    • minxbrie

      I agree with your point and I do agree that as women, we have needs. But I sometimes feel like our sexual empowerment has made it very hard to be comfortable with what we want, rather than what others say we should want.

      It’s damned if we do, damned if we don’t. “I don’t want to sleep with someone again, but since I’ve done it already, I mean I may as well keep going”. “I’m not interested in being casual anymore, but he doesn’t want a relationship and this is as good as it’s going to get”. “I have no interest in being in a relationship and now I’m called a sl*t for refusing to settle down.” “I don’t want to have sex but now I’m called a prude because women fought for me to have the agency to do it whenever I want.”

      And that’s why FWB’s are not meant to work out. There’s too many mixed messages and unless there’s some rules laid out before you hop into the sack, someone is bound to read the signals wrong. Even if she just wants to get laid, he’s now stopped looking at her as a friend. Despite being two consenting adults, there still needs to be a level of respect and that seems to be fading between the pair.

      • Marshal

        So, are you gonna be worried about Society’s Perceptions of you forever or are you gonna Do what Feels Good and is Best for You?????

        How can you be True to Yourself when you are constantly trying to be “Ideal” or “Perfect” to those who don’t give a care besides what you can Do For Them at Anytime (Employer, Associate/Acquaintance, non-Friend Peer, etc)?

        • Charlie

          Even if you do what feels good, society view of your behaviour does play a part in the decisions you make.

        • minxbrie

          I think you’re misunderstanding me.

          Personally, I don’t give a damn what most people think of me, unless you’re a friend of mine or family – even then, your opinion still may be irrelevant.

          I’m just saying that we live in a time that sends A LOT of mixed messages to women which makes it difficult to assess what one really needs rather than what others THINK they need. And thats how some women get themselves trapped – I’ve already said this up top, my old roommate got herself into a similar dilemma as Jack and Jane. She didn’t even LIKE this guy that much, but she kept thinking that maybe she SHOULD be in a relationship with him. Why? Because she missed being in a relationship and thought since she was already sleeping with him he would do. But she actually just felt bad to be sleeping with someone else after her last boyfriend dumped her over SKYPE.

          What did she need? Some time to heal and have some fun.
          What did she THINK she wanted? A relationship with a new guy who would screw her and NEVER take her out of our apartment building.

      • http://missrosen.wordpress.com esa

        ~ But I sometimes feel like our sexual empowerment has made it very hard to be comfortable with what we want, rather than what others say we should want.

        for me, it was never been about other people but rather a deep inner conflict in myself between what i want and what i need.

        i knew what i wanted but what i refused to realize was that what i wanted was the antithesis of what i needed.

        now that i figured my madness out, i no longer take red flags for green. God Bless ~*~

        • Kema

          I’m still trying to figure out what I want. :-/

          • http://missrosen.wordpress.com esa

            my best suggestion is to determine what you need. needs provide long-term strategy and the best place upon which to build a solid foundation.

            wants are short term/instant gratification. they are super cute in limited dosages. like drugs. or sugar. or shoe shopping.

            purrhaps if we use wants as rewards for meeting our needs and we’ll have the best of both worlds.

            • Kema

              Man Esa! For so long my only ‘need’ seemed to be instant gratification. I will have to think on this. I see a list in my future.

              • http://missrosen.wordpress.com esa

                i feel you !

                i once curated an exhibition, inspired by a man i loved who did his best to keep me in check. i called it :: Delayed Gratification.

                i’m still learning how that works ~*~

      • BriA

        Exactly. It’s hard especially when you already know that you aren’t the type of woman that can do FWB. You have “needs” but you want to be in a relationship and get those needs fulfilled. And getting in a relationship is not that simple. At best, you will get a guy that will pretend to be in one with you while doing other things, then it still ends up turning into a FWB situation anyway. *sigh*

    • gemgirl

      However, I am just TIRED of these generalizations that women can not be shexual beings the same ways that men can.

      Amen to this.

    • http://TheNewEve.com Bunni

      +milli and a bagful of golden stars….
      Idk, maybe because I’ve personally done the naughty dance with a friend…and THOUGHT i had feelings for them, which i eventually realized was just my misconception of wanting to get him bed…that realization made me eat my words, and I was perfectly fine continuing to have casual s3x with him, cuz he had his own thing going on outside of our tryst, and so did i…there were no hurt feelings….BUT that only came with me realizing that it wasnt a real friendship we had, just some lust disguised as friendship…maybe jane realized that hes no friend at all but an EXCELLENT piece of azz.

      • http://TheNewEve.com Bunni

        *get him in bed

      • http://www.alltherightquestions.com T.Q. Fuego

        That’s what’s I’m talkin bout (Playboy) Bunni, win win situations r possible people. Jack was probably thinking along these lines which is why y’all are wrong for makin him out to be a douche

        • http://TheNewEve.com Bunni

          lmao Playboy Bunni?? All that, Fuego??

          …and to be clear…theyre both douchebags for continuing to believe theyre friends…theyre both wack for that lol

          • http://www.alltherightquestions.com T.Q. Fuego

            Hey don’t deny your Playboy Bunni status. I ain’t blind, I see you and read your posts lol

            But do you really think their friendship has no hopes of recovering? Btw, I’m learning that being called a douchebag isn’t really an insult based on the things yall are saying today lol

      • gemgirl

        Ha! I have had the exact same situation. Except that we are still friends 10 years later, no longer doing the naughty dance. Was a win, win.

    • Rewind

      You are right, those generalizations need to be put to bed.

      But in the end, this is someone’s story, and they are expressing that the exchange both parties agreed upon is not going well, which leaves reason to believe she may not be the kind of woman you are describing. But still, we lack the whole story.

      Women want a nut. No lies about that. But women never deal with sex the same way men do. No matter what is said, no woman will ever understand that context. Women like sex. Women love sex. Men NEED sex. It is ingrained into every fiber our being.

      Do women make bad decisions based off sex? Of course. But do men create horrors and atrocities based off sex? Oh hell yea. And that’s the difference. Men are willing to ruin lives over sex. Men are willing to create wars over sex. No woman could ever say that.