VSB Roundtable: The One Where We Talk About Camille Cosby » VSB

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VSB Roundtable: The One Where We Talk About Camille Cosby

I’m sure by now you’ve all seen, or heard, some confidants of Camille Cosby spilled some of her alleged thoughts to the NY Post. I say alleged because these words came from somebody else on her behalf so it’s entirely possible it’s NOT completely accurate and because its the Post.

From the NY Post story:

Bill Cosby’s wife knows her husband is a serial philanderer, but believes his scores of accusers consented to drugs and sex, two confidants of the couple say.

Last week’s revelation that Cosby admitted during a deposition that he intended to ply women with Quaaludes before bedding them barely fazed Camille Cosby, the ­insiders told The Post.

“Camille still doesn’t believe that Bill provided drugs and had sex with women without their consent,” said a source employed by the Cosby family. “She’s well aware of his cheating, but she doesn’t believe that her husband is a rapist.”

I understand standing by your man but this pushes the envelope into deep waters. I’m slightly amazed that she’s digging her heels in so deeply. The writing seems to be all over the window to the wall. What seems painfully obvious (and sad) to the rest of us – that Bill Cosby is a rapist, pure and simple – seems to be implausible to her. Either that or she’s just choosing to ignore the writing in favor of being the ultimate ride or die.

I’m trying to understand and I’m drawing somewhat of a blank so I’m taking it to the VSB streets. Thoughts? Opinions?

-PANAMA JACKSON

We’re not sure if Camille said those comments, but what I AM sure of is that whether or not the women consented to the drugs or wanted the drugs… you can’t provide clear consent to sex under the intoxication of drugs (which includes alcohol, of course). So, even mentioning that as a “defense” is irrelevant.

If Camille said those things, she’s likely in super deep denial. She doesn’t want to even admit to herself that her husband is a rapist, let alone to the public. It really is very sad and I really wish she would’ve simply remained silent or refused to comment (I know in this case, it’s more about a source coming out, but didn’t she make comments denying it even happened before?). Either way, her comments (allegedly or otherwise) are harmful and further shame women… deeper into what is OBVIOUSLY a cemented rape culture.

-TONJA STIDHUM

In this case I think it’s a matter of her exhibiting a trait that’s more commonly seen in people of that generation. In terms of things you don’t want to believe, you simply choose not to believe them. It happens when older family members refuse to acknowledge that other family members are gay, or when family, mothers specifically, hold on to the integrity of a child’s innocence, even in the face of the most incriminating evidence. I’m not comparing being gay to committing a crime, but to people of a certain age and of a certain upbringing, it is the same. I don’t think it’s about being a ride-or-die, mainly because my generation is annoying with that bullshit and the nonsensical motivations behind it; Camille has aged well beyond trying to hold anybody down. But also because I, for no particular reason, believe Camille to be a reasonable woman, and while publicly she may denounce whatever rumors-turned-fact that have materialized, it would come as no surprise that inside the confines of the Cosby compound they’re likely not speaking or the tension is palpable. I’m not saying I agree with how she’s responded but, it’s definitely something I recognize.

-RYAN SIDES

I believe she believes him. But it’s a pragmatic belief. A choice to believe because she has too much invested in that belief, and acknowledging that her beliefs are wrong would be too devastating. Especially now. Because it would be admitting — to everyone, but, most importantly, herself — that her entire life has been a sham. She believes because she has to. Her life is dependent on it.

Also, we can’t dismiss the fact that if Bill Cosby is capable of raping dozens of women while 1) successfully becoming America’s most prominent family friendly comedian, 2) successfully transitioning from that to his role as America’s dad, and 3) transitioning from that role to America’s scolding and contemptuous uncle — all the while acting as an very generous benefactor for Black education — who knows what type of man he was to his wife? What we might be seeing now is a form of Stockholm Syndrome, cultivated by 50 years of emotional abuse.

-DAMON YOUNG

This was my favorite picture from my college graduation and one of my favorite true hollywood tales.

unnamed

It’s not anymore.

Now, I’m going to keep it 100. I didn’t watch the Cosby Show like that. I was too young for everything but the Erika Alexander years and wasn’t really feeling the re-runs. Still, I loved Cosby’s good “clean” stand-up and respected his legacy. Every time I walked Spelman’s campus in college, I’d pass the Camille Cosby Building ( A $20 million gift from Bill and Camille) I’d think to myself,

“This man must really be committed to his wife. He ain’t even put his name on it thoooo.”

A commitment that strong is impressive. Normally, it would be admirable but now it’s just on some Claire and Frank Underwood shit. They bought a building at the premiere institution for black women during the 80’s, when Bill was definitely still “Pill Cosby” and Camille was allegedly by his side just-a nodding and smiling.

I don’t know Camille’s true feelings. She may feel like she’s in too deep. She may feel like she’s still got to nod and smile. But she can’t be complicit in this shit and get any sympathy from me. Not when young women, (women her husband could have preyed on) are have been going into a building with her name on it for years.

-BRANDON HARRISON

I’m not buying the source. But I do think Camille is a “don’t let no hussy mess up your family” type of woman. I also think she believes Bill is a cheater like most men are, not a rapist–and those women are hussies like most unmarried women are, not victims. I agree with Damon’s notion of Stockholm Syndrome, cultivated by 50 years of emotional abuse. She’s been with Bill since she was 19, against family wishes, and dropped of college to follow him to Hollywood. She’s been gone for a very long time.

-CHRISTINA E

I agree with Damon and Christina. I don’t necessarily trust the source. He has probably been a stellar yet cheating husband to her like a lot of men in Hollywood. Which to some people would rule out the stellar part, but it happens.

I think she knows he’s a rapist though. I’m sure they’ve had some real arguments at home but she seems very “stick by my man” and is choosing to admit only part of that. It’s much easier to say publicly that these women chose to take drugs and have sex with her husband than to say he drugged them with intention on raping.

-SHANAE BROWN

Do yall feel it’s just too late for her to change tune? Maybe she’s wanted to over the years but at 71, it’s just not worth it for her to really stand up at this point?

-BRANDON HARRISON

I was wondering this same thing – if Camille just *can’t* admit publicly (or maybe even privately) that her husband ain’t shit. She’s been in too deep allll these years. I’m not sure she’s bold enough to come out now and say “yeah that nigga did it and I knew about it.” At 71, I might just ride that ish out too.

-GEM

She might let the chopper spray, eloquently, once he dies.

– CHRISTINA E

That is also a similar thought I had. Like maybe its just not worth it. The Titanic is already sinking…she might as well play the violin with it.

Brandon, I will say that one of my first thoughts this morning was about the Camille Cosby Center on Spelman’s campus. Bill and Camille are incinerating their legacy quick, fast, and in a hurry these days. Not that the name will or needs to change. Their strides in education are solid, but man. My view on Bill has changed already…or maybe its become more realistic. But Camille, I didn’t have much of one before aside of being the strong Black woman by his side. Now I’m more amazed that she seems to be almost complicit in all of this shit. Not even almost. She is.

– PANAMA JACKSON

Man, when I was at Spelman for my reunion in April, I had my class meeting in the Camille Olivia Hanks Cosby, EdD Academic Center. And I couldn’t help but think of what would/should happen to that building. Camille had been largely silent up to that point but I knew there was no way she wasn’t part of the mess that has been accumulating for decades. Sigh.

-GEM

This is the downside to having a solid healthcare system. Folks are now living long enough to watch their legacies come tumbling down because of their sincere fuckery.

– PANAMA JACKSON

VSB
  • nillalatte

    Whhaaa… I thought you guys had left and gone to Siberia or something. Was it yet another gubment holiday or something? All I know is I wanted to play yesterday and there were crickets at VSB. >:| lol

    “who knows what type of man he was to his wife? What we might be seeing now is a form of Stockholm Syndrome, cultivated by 50 years of emotional abuse.”

    I’m not following along with the the Cosby drama that closely, but I think Damon hit the nail on the head. It would not surprise me one bit if he had a control over his wife like none other. If someone is in their right mind and not being coerced in some fashion, unless they too just have no moral ground, that person would WANT to tell someone. The woman’s behavior is bizarre.

    • Cleojonz

      “Whhaaa… I thought you guys had left and gone to Siberia or something.
      Was it yet another gubment holiday or something? All I know is I wanted
      to play yesterday and there were crickets at VSB. >:| lol”

      I know right? I kept refreshing like wtf? Where y’all at lol. Was sooo not in the mood to work yesterday.

      • I guess Im late to the party. I’ve followed this site for a while but did not realize the comment sections is just as good as the actual post sometimes lol

        • Epsilonicus

          Girl, aint nobody here to read no posts lol

          • CrayolaGirl

            LOL

        • Cleojonz

          Girl, sometimes work just does not get done because of this comments section lol!

  • First, I don’t trust The Post for accuracy. 2nd If she does publically state that she believes he is a rapist she is in essence saying the following: 1) I spent the greatest years on this planet building a life with a monster. or 2) I spent the greatest years on this planet NOT knowing I was building a life with a monster. 3) I spent the greatest years on this planet ignoring my own intuition and allowing myself to believe that I was married to Cliff.
    These are some hard truths to admit to yourself. For her, the land of denial may offer an attractive opportunity to avoid introspection. If she leaves that probably jointly built land she may have to face an unfamiliar destination called truth. Maybe her refusal to view her husband as anything other than the jello pushing, respectable Cliff that she helped create is a form of self-preservation.

  • kid video

    I don’t think Camille had it in her to break from Cos…Who was she going to leave him for? They are from the era(1960s,1970s) that married(esp. successful) men had side chicks and wife’s didn’t address it.(Has Camille ever had a job?)

    Same way I don’t think Bey will ever leave Jay(who’s allegedly has side pieces) …where is she gonna find another Jay.

    • The Beyonce comparison is like apples to oranges. Beyonce built an empire without Jay and she has her pick of the litter when it comes to men. Jay just hopped onto her little red wagon when she was 16 and never fell off.

      • miss t-lee

        Thank you.
        He waited her out, not the other way around…lol
        She’d be up out in a sec if need be.

        • Epsilonicus

          I don’t think either would leave the other. I get the feeling they would stay together no matter what, whether Bey or Jay cheated.

    • Wild Cougar

      You got that backwards. Bey is the cash cow Jay is good but not as valuable.

    • Kema

      I’m with the others. Bey can find another him in a minute. lol

      • Keeping it real, they’re about what and what. If they split, there will be no alimony or child support checks cut.

    • menajeanmaehightower

      Jay Z is hip hop royalty. That’s it. B can find actual royalty. She can be on her Diana Ross at any given moment. Same thing with Rihanna.

  • Dcetstyle

    Well I don’t trust the Post, but I think she has just been in this with Cosby for a lifetime, where is she gonna go? Plus they raised kids together, one with a serious drug addiction and the burial of their only son. Who knows how that shyt affected her psyche.
    To have to admit that the man you spent your life with, fifty phucking years, is a Jack The Ripper style rapist is a lot to digest.
    I just pity her and hold him in the highest contempt.

  • Candace B R

    The more I think about it, the more my heart breaks for her. He put her in such an unfair position. But that’s old-school marriage. They don’t leave. They cleave. No matter what. And in your 70s now? I mean, where would you go? She better play that violin cause this ship is going DOWN and rather than get off, she’s decided to let it go down with her inside. I have absolutely no judgements towards her because I’ve seen husband’s put their wives in unthinkable positions. It’s hard to admit your husband is a sleezeball.

  • Aly

    By treating Camille as the emotionally abused wife or a victim in all of this, aren’t we guilty of doing the same thing we did with Cosby? Buying into a persona that doesn’t exist? Cosby isn’t Cliff Huxtable, and it’s possible that Camille is also a monster. She may have known all along that her husband is a r apist and simply doesn’t care.

    • JanuaryBabe

      I totally agree with you Aly……she’s probably glad that he was getting his kicks someplace else. Also, makes me wonder what “really” drove that daughter out into the streets with a really bad drug habit…..in the depths of despair…..alienated from her family for so many years…..probably before many of you were even born…… more to this story than you can ever fathom!

      • Aly

        I always forget they have a daughter. I bet she has plenty of stories to tell.

        • uniquebeauty79

          Someone will most definitely be reaching out to her for a tell-all book or interview.

          • Aly

            Oprah, Diane Sawyer, somebody will get her. Unless she’s already been paid off not to talk. I wouldn’t be surprised.

            • Val

              Maybe after Bill dies she’ll talk. Otherwise whatever has kept her silent all these years will continue to keep her silent.

              • Epsilonicus

                She might be so deep into the drugs that none of this has hit her radar.

            • Jasmin

              I wouldn’t be surprised if Cos has some type of gag order on all his daughters that cut them out of the will or punish them in some other financial way. I mean it shouldn’t matter cause they are all in their late 30’s and late 40’s with their own careers

        • Cleojonz

          They have 4 daughters which makes this whole situation that much more disgusting.

          • Aly

            I had no idea they had so many children! I thought it was just the son who died and the daughter who was on drugs.

            • JanuaryBabe

              And truth be told…..the son died under some “questionable” circumstances that were never really clearly explained…..something about a brand new Mercedes broke down on the side of the road….robbery/murder!

          • Deeds

            I wonder how he reconciles drugging and raping women that are probably around his daughter’s ages and how he feels if someone committed that crime against one of his daughters.

            • Cleojonz

              That was exactly my thought.

          • Eve

            Don’t forget the “outside” daughter from an affair. That came out many years ago. Camille likely knew that long before the public rod did once the girl was in her 20’s. I think she just believes her husband cheated…a lot.

    • Siante

      I don’t think it’s buying into a persona that doesn’t exist, I think it’sonly fair to cconsider all options before throwing her under the bus. Maybe she knew, maybe she didn’t know- the truth is none of us know.

      • Epsilonicus

        She knew. She is his business manager. So even if he didn’t tell her, she had to hear the rumors. And she either asked and he lied or decided she did not want to know and became willfully ignorant.

        • Siante

          I didn’t know she was his business manager smh. D@mn Camille. I’m trying to give her the benefit of the doubt but it’s getting harder.

          • Siante

            I wavered for like 2secs but I have to stick to my guns, we just don’t know what she knew….

  • JanuaryBabe

    Bill Cosby is a Psychopath. I have a friend that actually sold Bill some marketing products years ago.
    There was a $14 discrepancy in the billing and she told me Bill Cosby gave her hell…..to the point of trying to get her fired. This happened in the early 90’s when he was in his “heyday” of his DoctorHuxtableJelloPuddingMan act.
    My friend, an African American single mother was terrified of loosing her only source of income and bent over backwards to rectify an honest mistake but he wasn’t having none of it. That totally turned me off to anything Cosby. I am not at all surprised at what is happening to him! KARMA!
    Psychopaths, are unable to form emotional attachments or feel real empathy with others,
    although they often have disarming or even charming personalities. Psychopaths
    are very manipulative and can easily gain people’s trust. They learn to mimic
    emotions, despite their inability to actually feel them, and will appear normal
    to unsuspecting people. Psychopaths are often well educated and hold steady
    jobs. Some are so good at manipulation and mimicry that they have families and
    other long-term relationships without those around them ever suspecting their
    true nature. When committing crimes, psychopaths carefully plan out every
    detail in advance and often have contingency plans in place. Unlike their
    sociopathic counterparts, psychopathic criminals are cool, calm, and
    meticulous. Their crimes, whether violent or non-violent, will be highly
    organized and generally offer few clues for authorities to pursue. Intelligent psychopaths
    make excellent white-collar criminals and “con artists” due to their calm and charismatic natures.

    • Nick Peters

      You do realize most extremely successful people think like that (the story about the $14 dollars…even most charities are a ploy to funnel money to loved ones and get tax rebates.)

    • nillalatte

      Not to diminish your excellent profile of a psychopath, but while reading this, is it strange that I pictured Hotch, Morgan, Reed et al giving their profile on Criminal Minds? lol

      • JanuaryBabe

        @nillatte…..don’t be impressed…..I actually goggled psychopath vs sociopath and got this awesome information…….turns out a sociopath is a product of their environment….getting caught doing stupid…..out of control dumb stuff…..while the psychopath on the other hand is cold, calculating……well thought out……never getting caught kinda *ish! BTW…..I have no idea who Hotch, Morgan or Reed are!

        • nillalatte

          LOL… they are 3 of cast of characters on Criminal Minds.

          The only thing to remember in the difference is psychopaths have no conscience. They cannot have empathy. Sociopaths don’t have that kind of calculating mentality and are easily caught in their deceptiveness. Not so much with psychopaths. But, both personality disorders can be manipulated if you play into their ideas of grandiose admiration. It may also remove you from being a target of their wrath. I learned that skill a little late in the game. ;)

          You need to watch Criminal Minds! :D

          • JanuaryBabe

            No thank you! I can only stomach First 48 Hours, Cops and Bait Car…..anything deeper leaves me scared to fall asleep! The only reason why I know of the psychopath is there seem to be a whole lot of them floating around in varying degrees. I’m light weight and I know it!

  • kris b.

    She knew. She’s guilty. Went on too long. Im sure there were blackmail calls, letters, and other things that are unknown. Sorry, not sorry to make such a sweeping indictment. Whether these quotes are true or not; his follies including paternity suits, shaming/blaming, and other tell tale signs should have given her intuition plenty to work with. She had a choice to make long ago, and she’s going ride the gravy train off of the proverbial cliff.

    To watch this legacy be incinerated will be tough to say the least.

    • JanuaryBabe

      To watch a false legacy go down in flames is a good thing! We need to stop building people up based upon their fake persona!

      • kris b.

        Was it fake? We knew nothing of his actions as they took place. His strides in education and philanthropy cannot be denied. The scholarships cannot be negated. Just because its right for his legacy to burn, doesn’t mean it wont be tough to watch. Dialing back admiration built up over decades is tough. Fans, recipients of his goodwill and the like were invested in the person who used his notoriety to advance numerous scholars. He deserves any consequences he will face and its sad that most of his accusers will not get the justice they deserve.

        • You can do admirable things and still be a horrific person.

          • History is filled with these people.

          • kris b.

            A true, yet sobering realization.

        • JanuaryBabe

          I never was much of a fan……early negative experiences via a friend painted a whole different of Mr. Jello Pudding Dr. Huxtable!

    • Freebird

      Im not to concerned with the legacy but I agree with everything else.

  • MysteryMeat

    Lord the last time my comment was in jail i aint see it till the next day DANG NAB IT DISQUS!!! lol

  • Why are our matriarchs so forgiving and willing to lay down and die for our ain’t ish patriarchs? The whole “Papa was a rolling stone” sentiment is so lost on me. I don’t get why black women are so loyal to their husbands when their husbands (those who do dip off and have 30 kids with various women) aren’t.

    It ain’t like Camille has to keep her relationship together for the kids, they grown. This all looks bad. I wish black women didn’t care about black men so much sometimes.

    • cakes_and_pies

      Black women have a long history with self-martyrdom. Suffering for the “cause’ and living that “blight life” is something that is taught and understood and your destiny..I guess. But that’s kind of going away.

      • Who taught us that? Who told black women that they have to be the proverbial mat that (abusive, cheating, etc.) black men wipe their crusty feet on? What a terrible legacy to have.

        • cakes_and_pies

          Ain’t nobody teach *me* that. The women in my family were different. No one ever suffered a victimhood mentality cause we’re Black women. That is a fact that is an acknowledgment, not a Scarlett Letter.I don’t see that as much anymore in real life except for Bad Black Relationship memes.

        • menajeanmaehightower

          http://www.blackgirldangerous.org/2015/06/stop-making-black-women-the-mammies-of-our-movements/

          We’ve been treated as mammy to everyone else but ourselves. You are correct in your statement. Black women need to start focusing on ourselves as a unit. Point blank.

          • I think the difficulty in this is probably getting out of our own way. I am glad to see black women championing for each other but we’ve got a ways to go.

          • I agree. I often hear a lot of black women repeat a lot of harmful old school ish back to little girls. The idea of the “fast tailed girl” is one that I hear a lot. It places the onus of teen-aged sexual behavior squarely in the laps of the girls.

            It’s similar to the debate Bomani Jones was having on his podcast about his comments about celibacy. He said celibacy is often used to control women and he got the “wait until you have a daughter” comment. It proved the point that no one ever says “Wait to you have a son.”

            A whole lot of these ideas keeps getting spread by older folks repeating what they’ve heard.

            • This mindset is exactly why I take my aunts, who range in age from 50-70, advice with a grain of salt. I think their intentions are good but I pick out the parts that I can apply to myself and leave the misogynist stuff alone.

              • When I hear older women repeat the ideas to younger ones I’m thinking “Did you forget that this ish you’re telling this kid kind of screwed you over?” Everything from relationship advice to not having your own bank account. It’s bothersome.

                • HeyBooHey

                  Which is why, like someone said up top, I take that ish with a heavy grain of salt. Love my grandma but I don’t heed not a word of her advice on love. The mentality makes me sad for her

                  • Sigma_Since 93

                    This is why I think the stimuli folks are around impact our relationships. We hear more / see more get yours, have yours, protect yours because of the past transgressions of men / failed marriages.

                    Keeping it 100, I THOUGHT I would do certain things when I got married and situations arose but the reality is my actions were a 360 from what I said I would do in that situation. It also reminds me of the comedy skit DC Curry used to have about slavery; we all would stand and rise up…until that whip hit us.

                    • HeyBooHey

                      Exactly! I learned from my mother’s mistakes, she learned from her mother’s mistakes but that can go out the window just the same. You always think “that would never be me” until you’re standing in it and have to react.

                • kris b.

                  Kinda like when I was pregnant at 19 and my aunts and mother (all divorced from their first husbands) tried to get me to marry the dad (whom I figured out too late wasn’t sh!t) and I already knew he wasnt right, waiting to make my exit plan. But here they are telling me to get married because its the right thing to do. I politely told them, “im looking at women all divorced from the father of their first child, I cant do this with a clear conscience”….then they laid hands on me and prayed to God that he’d walk me in the right path. 12 years later im on the right path with my one kid, and he has 3 more he can’t take care of. So glad I didn’t fall prey to the old school way. But the conviction they had in the old way was STRONG. Even if it didn’t work for them. My mind was blown that day.

            • I think this wins comment of the month. I’ve heard fast tailed girls cosigned by so many girls who were being victimized. And I hear “wait until my daughter gets older” a lot about my, um, liberal views on $exuality. I Mena my daughter is going to see the receipts at one point. I can’t look in her face and tell her to be chaste while thinking of all the ish I’ve done.

              • HeyBooHey

                I swear, that’s all it is. Don’t live one type of way but sell a totally different story when it comes to women. Whether I have a daughter(s) or son(s), they’re getting the real on sexuality in the same way.

            • Val

              This is what I was saying about Steve Harvey’s advice the other day. He tells women to wait but why not men. It’s all about men thinking they can control women.

              • Sigma_Since 93

                But aren’t women waiting by default if they are waiting to be chose and choosing from a pool of suitors?

                • Val

                  Who says she is limiting herself to a pool of suitors? A woman can create her own dating life by being a suitor.

                  And, no, women are not waiting by default. That makes it seems as if women have no agency.

                  • Sigma_Since 93

                    But that’s still a choice and when did a pool of suitors become a limiting factor? I always thought not having a pool to chose from was limiting.

                    You do bring up in your comment some of the dynamics that are at the cross roads; what are the new norms when it comes to gender roles and their impact on inter generational relationships. Everybody’s scoffing at big mommas advice or just the relationship advice? Are women cherry picking the current gender norms they like while yelling they are She Ra at the same time? I need answers.

      • uniquebeauty79

        So glad my mom was one of those, get it for yourself women. She pretty much told it like it was, F&ck a man when he isn’t respecting or loving you properly. She didn’t think men deserved a pass to be hoebaggs and she taught me about self worth. I will always appreciate her for that.

        • Epsilonicus

          My grandmother taught my mom all of this. She was telling my mom it was better to leave then stay in some mess.

          • uniquebeauty79

            True.

        • miss t-lee

          I appreciate my Mom and both of my grandmothers for that wisdom.

        • PunchDrunkLove

          Mine too.

    • ChiefbutnotA_Keef

      That black man ain’t is mantra is seriously played out. There is no way you can think all of that mess you just wrote is ok

      • I stand by what I wrote, you’re free to disagree with some or all of it.

        • ChiefbutnotA_Keef

          Ok

    • Sigma_Since 93

      Ruby this isn’t a black solely a woman’s problem; you have the I’m going for a pack of smokes white guy or the I’m going to work in American Hispanic guy who gets the jumpoff while he’s here. Pride is a helluva thing; it will make you do / say things to preserve it. I know folks who stayed in bad situations because they took an oath before God and it meant something to them. folks who had held themselves out as perfect and needed to maintain that appearance despite things crumbling at home.

      • Black, white, Latinx, etc. I still see so many black women who will stay in bad situations because someone’s grandma told them that a wife does XYZ. That’s the relationships I see as a young black woman, so that’s what I spoke on. I know it happens outside of the black community.

        • Sigma_Since 93

          The converse is that younger folks are also too quick to say eff it and bounce; where the line is I don’t know. You’ll see more common law marriages and pre-nups because of this moving forward.

          • menajeanmaehightower

            When it comes to disrespect (cheating, abuse, etc.) they should bounce. We need to stop telling women that all men cheat as if “this is just the way they are and you won’t find anyone better so deal.”

            • PunchDrunkLove

              I come from a family with a history of long marriages and no one was abused and convinced women to stay. My mama didn’t play that, she was the first person in my life telling me NEVER tolerate crap from a man.

              • HeyBooHey

                Love my mom but I wish I could say the same. She never taught me to stay but seeing her stay in her mess made me think I had to stay in mine even though it was clearly not a marriage

                • PunchDrunkLove

                  Sadly it does happen. Sorry to hear that. I do believe the examples in front of us will shape how we interact, but there are some folks just jaded. So sad for them. Everything is never all good, neither is it all bad.

          • I’d rather see people leave a bad situation than stay to “stick it out”. Relationships aren’t some one size fits all cap. The societal norms of the 50’s/60’s don’t really hold as much weight as they used to and I think that’s a good thing.

            • Sigma_Since 93

              “Relationships aren’t some one size fits all cap.”

              The same goes for people. Outside of the obvious, what’s a bad situation? Is what I consider bad the same thing as what you would consider bad, the same thing as what your BAE would consider bad? I think today’s generation has too many Barney Fife’s looking to flee at the first sign of trouble.

              • I don’t think my generation should be some litmus test for the “modern” relationship. Most of us who are actually married haven’t been married for more than a handful of years, if that. There’s no way you can compare a bunch of young 20-somethings in fresh marriages to people who’ve been in the relationship realm for as long as we’ve been alive. We’re trying to figure out how to navigate love, lust, and lies.

                Yes, what is considered “bad” differs on many levels. Some people don’t consider cheating a deal breaker, some people consider staring at the opposite chex a second too long as some unforgivable act. Either way, I think my generation values ourselves way more than we value the image of a what a “happy home” should look like to the generations before ours.

                • Epsilonicus

                  “Either way, I think my generation values ourselves way more than we value the image of a what a “happy home” should look like to the generations before ours.”

                  *church clap*

                • Sigma_Since 93

                  “There’s no way you can compare a bunch of young 20-somethings in fresh
                  marriages to people who’ve been in the relationship realm for as long as
                  we’ve been alive.”

                  Oh yes you can. Let’s look at the stimuli both groups have been exposed to. We’ll use music as the prime example; you go from Lynn Collins Think, a Reeba McEntire’s Fancy, to today you have Single Ladies and Independent.

                  This in addition to what we tell our kids, how our kids are raised single mother, married families, divorced couples also play a role.

                  • Oh please, Millie Jackson was penning songs about getting slow tongued down and bare backed until she couldn’t breathe. My 60’s-70’s musical archive is full of men and women who crooned about the same things Chris Brown and Beyonce have songs about.

                    It might have been subtle, but it’s all still there. We can play the record game if you want to do that. My arsenal is heavy.

                    • Epsilonicus

                      “Oh please, Millie Jackson was penning songs about getting slow tongued down and bare backed until she couldn’t breathe.”

                      Laughing so hard now I cannot breathe.

                    • A nice little tune about fugging ugly men because they’ll fugg you better than good looking men. This song was put out in 1979, a full 2 years before Beyonce popped out of Tina’s coochie.

                      https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FJsP7LFTU7c

                    • Epsilonicus

                      Millie was a sho nuff freak.

                    • She’s my favorite freak! The only album I didn’t care for was that country garbage she put out.

                    • Sigma_Since 93

                      You’ve got the wrong songs lady; the first two songs are about women manipulating to get what they want and / or settling. The latter two songs talk about women got this. You’re trying to tell me the images of nuclear families combined with hearing about marriage, sticking and staying, and big momma’s talks didn’t impact a generation? You mean to tell me Living Single, Murphy Brown, all the women’s I don’t need a man songs, and Big Momma saying girl have your own isn’t impacting a generation??

                      If you believe that, I’ve got a bridge in Pittsburgh I can sell you.

                    • Epsilonicus

                      I dont think that set the tone, I think it was merely a reflection of what was already happening.

                    • You say that like people in generations before mine weren’t out here doing the things mine is doing now just because the music was different. The music from 1764 is going to be vastly different from the music of 2004. That doesn’t mean that people back then had better values or were living some pure life. No one cares. Jazmine Sullivan is out here making the kinds of songs that Phyllis Hyman was doing and no one mentions her when they speak on “the shiftless music of today” No one mentions anything that doesn’t fit the agenda they’re pushing.

                    • I think the argument is fundamentally flawed or at least somewhat outdated.

                      Modern day American music is rooted in black culture, specifically jazz and ragtime. Since it’s inception and dominance over American culture, s3xuality and s3nsuality, have always been the subject covered and criticized, and the accusation has always been that such music corrupts the minds of the young with s3x over and over again. Then after a generation or so passes, nostalgia, makes the music of past generations look relatively innocent kind of like how jazz and the blues was viewed in the 1950’s and 1960’s when the hipsters and revolutionaries took over the music industry. What does or at least has changed and continues to do so, is a toleration for explicitness.

                      It’s also an argument that needs to be updated in the age of social media…people want to provide entertainment for themselves, and they want to be explicit (whether it’s beneficial or not is a different conversation). Twerking wasn’t a creation of the media or Miley Cyrus for that matter, but was a creation of random black girls on youtube. Amateur pr0n is putting it’s professional version out of business; as instagram is putting the b00ty model and fitness model out of business. What people are independently choosing to express and consume, not from billion dollar corporations, but from their peers and networks is what people are being exposed to that is influencing them.

                      Peer Pressure is more powerful than it has ever been, much more powerful than the power of tradition, if you’re looking for a problem, that’s the one you zone in on, but I doubt a solution will be discovered.

                    • That last paragraph is the TRUTH. The funny thing is that people seem to he against $ex and $exuality in media, but their wallets sure love it.

                      I remember in light of BB King’s death recently, someone brought up the story as to how he started playing the blues. The summary is that on Sundays, he’d go to the main street of his hometown and play his guitar for tips. When he played gospel, he got compliments and nice words. When he played the blues, he had a hat full of tips and free beer.

                      So what we’re people checking for again?

                    • Yeah, you can lie to the public, but you can’t lie to your wallet.

                      The BB King story reminds me of the Ray Charles movie, where he’s playing some soul music, and a church guy is in the bar, rebuking the music he’s playing. I remember watching that when I was younger and being like “For real, that’s devil music lol?”

                      I think the problem that @sigma_since93:disqus would be correct to point out is not that the media or culture is exposing to children is what is creating all these problems, including those of family life, but a severe lack of self-discipline aka wisdom. People always want to engage in trivialities or vices, but it’s wisdom and an ability to foresee consequences that prevents people from making life-altering decisions when doing such.

                      Wisdom is rooted in autonomy and self-control, rather than what external forces or society tells you to do or it’s taboos (infidelity in America is still a taboo, it doesn’t matter if people don’t give an f tho)…and wisdom got dumped in this country during the 60’s and 70’s, and got replaced by being permanently anti-establishment (Depending on who you choose to identify as being the establishment). The youth of that time, actually took for granted that wisdom came with age, rather than being purposely developed, and unfortunately came to old age, still not realizing that they didn’t get wiser, and the condition of the economy and politics in contemporary America is proof of this.

                    • Freebird

                      “and wisdom got dumped in this country during the 60’s and 70’s, and got replaced by being permanently anti-establishment (Depending on who you choose to identify as being the establishment). The youth of that time, actually took for granted that wisdom came with age, rather than being purposely developed, and unfortunately came to old age, still not realizing that they didn’t get wiser, and the condition of the economy and politics in contemporary America is proof of this.”

                      And the saga continues….

                    • Sigma_Since 93

                      “The youth of that time, actually took for granted that wisdom came with
                      age, rather than being purposely developed, and unfortunately came to
                      old age, still not realizing that they didn’t get wiser”

                      All those hippies rallying against the establishment felt the weight of the world when they obtained power they sought to overthrow.

                    • Courtney Wheeler

                      Oh actually..this song perfectly sums up the ride or die sentiment. Mind you..everytime I hear this song I think “No dudes worth it…you can have him”

                      https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZssL3nr6JZg

                    • miss t-lee

                      I do the same thing girl. I’m always like, girl…let that ninja go…lol

                    • Epsilonicus

                      Don’t forget Luther Vandross has the most romantic, jump off, one night stand song the world has ever heard

                      https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=c0lkpLgrrVo

                    • Luther and Barry White got some of the most “lemme fugg you and dip off” heavy song archives but people romanticize their eras because, “this is real music and the content is what real music was about”

                      *insert labored eye roll here*

                    • Epsilonicus

                      This music was the soundtrack to all their f*cksh*t

                    • Which is exactly why they protect it so much. Truth be told, most of the men penning these songs were worse than many of the young stars of today. Groupies of today don’t have ish on the groupies of the 60’s.

                    • The difference is that they were smooth about their BS. Now people give zero f*cks.

                    • Epsilonicus

                      But the message is still the same so what’s the difference?

                    • People thinking their generation is better than the generations before or after them.

                    • HeyBooHey

                      But being smooth about it is still giving zero f*cks

                    • Courtney Wheeler

                      I mean..how can we hate this song..a song when played I automatically smell Cools cigarettes and E and J.
                      https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hT5ZVGdEj-c

                    • Epsilonicus

                      I am mad you said E&J lol

                    • DBoySlim

                      I can’t view the song. Which one is it?

                    • Epsilonicus

                      If Only For One Night

                    • miss t-lee

                      Of course it was a one nighter. The dude he was singing about had to go back home to his family.
                      *snickers*

                    • Epsilonicus

                      bwahahahaha!!!!

                    • miss t-lee

                      You know I’m right…lol

                    • Epsilonicus

                      Had to be home before the kids woke up lol

                    • miss t-lee

                      Of course!!!
                      Sh-creep!

                    • HeyBooHey

                      Ma’am, we all know Luffa was never sangin about the lady parts but we gonna act like he wasn’t creep-creep-creepin on the other side

                    • Epsilonicus

                      Which makes Ruby point even more lol

                    • miss t-lee

                      Hellz, I haven’t the foggiest if was both ways or not…lol
                      Which goes to show, Luther must have been a really good dude, because ain’t nobody ever came out the woodwork with any stories or tell all books. Especially since he’s been gone for a whole hot minute.

                    • HeyBooHey

                      I have always said that! Luther’s lover must have been as loyal as the day is long. Or he’s dead and can’t talk. But his people kept his secrets SO close to the chest

                    • miss t-lee

                      Indeed. That’s loyalty plus love. Gotta be.

                    • Epsilonicus

                      You cant buy that kind of loyalty.

                    • miss t-lee

                      Nope. Not at all.

                    • JanuaryBabe

                      hehehe!!!!

              • HeyBooHey

                Agreed. People’s thresholds vary SO greatly. Some women will leave the second their man stares at another woman’s butt. Some women will only leave if he cheats and publicly embarasses her. It’s a slippery slope, nobody’s values in that case are the same.

                And we discussed this in a previous post, but today’s generation probably saw all that, said “eff it” and runs at the first sign of trouble because of it. Or, we’re just too lazy to make things work. Still the same issue, values differ.

            • Epsilonicus

              Yes to all of this. You don’t get no extra points because you stayed in a terrible situation

              • Exactly. I am baffled by stories of women who stuck around and didn’t “make life hard” when the men in their lives did what they wanted. Black women praise other black women for being a good and faithful and Godly wives while their husbands were dipping their d!ks in everything moving, beating them, r@ping their daughters and nieces, etc.

                • Jasmin Wilson

                  There seems to be an idea of a martyr in the black community that mothers/wives are pressured to take on, in my own family I have seen women stay with men who rape/molest the girls of the family and even of their own households on a regular basis, I have seen women stay with men that beat them. They think theres some invisible gold medal for staying with a man for face value

              • My former mother in law IS the Queen of that BS. Like I know I’m not a tail whipped because if I didn’t beat her tail after some of the stuff she said about her situation, I’m not sure any woman can get me there.

      • laddibugg

        ” I’m going to work in American Hispanic guy who gets the jumpoff while he’s here.”
        Jumpoff? Some people establish FAMILIES here in a addition to the one back home….

        • I was talking about this Panamanian woman who just recently had to go back for her father’s funeral. She thought she had only 4 siblings. She gets there and finds out there are (literally) 36 other kids she ain’t know about.

          • Heck, I found out about a few long lost cousins down in Barbados. This stuff is worldwide!

          • PunchDrunkLove

            36 others kids? Wow? My cousin was killed at 21. Not only was the wife there, but his gfs all showed up AND SPOKE on his behalf.

          • miss t-lee

            36?! Pops was real free with the d*ck.
            Dayum!

            • Epsilonicus

              He must not have known what a condom is

              • HeyBooHey

                Condoms don’t allow you to spread your seed. Clearly, the man was on a mission

              • miss t-lee

                Or just didn’t give a f*ck.
                I’m going with that.

                • Epsilonicus

                  But aint he worried bout it falling off? There are diseases

                  • miss t-lee

                    You think a man with 36 children is thinking about these minor details?
                    I say no.

                • cakes_and_pies

                  he gave too many f**ks. That’s the problem.

              • Sigma_Since 93

                the pull out game was non existent

        • Sigma_Since 93

          I saw this too many times where the wife gets here and then is confronted by the jumpoff. I hate to admit I snickered too many times at the arguments in the mall parking lot on a Sunday afternoon.

      • CHURCH! This isn’t a Black thing. Men and women of all orientations do this on the regular. It took me clear until adulthood to get why Pride was listed as a deadly sin, but I so get it now.

    • h.h.h.

      fascinating.

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