Traditionally Speaking, I Disagree

I hate destiny.

Tradition is the backbone of a strong society. Without our traditions, we are left, well, traditionless and searching like Roy Ayers, which is so sad since everybody loves the sunshine. We are the equivalent of the lost Black girl who doesn’t enjoy talking about that God body back to Africa stuff.

NOT THAT WHITE STUFF!

What does this have to do with the price of Magnums in Tokyo? Not very much really, but it got me to thinking about a bunch of relationship norms that while seemingly sound in theory, are actually quite non-sensical. And if non-sensical is too strong, then they’re at the very least Urkelian.

And I’m guessing Magnums in Tokyo go for real cheap. I figure its one of those places where supply doesn’t necessarily create demand. Take that Reagan. Swing low, sweet chariot. Trickle deez.

Back to the lecture at hand. There are quite a few tenets that many of us tend to hold pretty tightly too, and if we were to actually examine them more closely, we’d realize that perhaps, we’ve got it wrong, even if we hold onto them for the “right” reasons.

Wrote a song about them, like to hear them? Here they go.

(Okay, no song.)

1. No living with somebody until you’re married

It’s common knowledge that you don’t know somebody until you’ve lived with them, or at the very least spend a significant amount of unintentionally inseparable time together. Yet, so many of us (and by us, I mean ninjas since white people are ready to move intogether after two weeks or a cup of coffee, whichever comes first) swear that we don’t want to live with our boyfriends or girlfriends until we’re married. Here’s the thing, I understand. Women don’t want to give up the milk if the man isn’t purchasing the cow. And men hate buying cows. It’s this notion that by living together, we are inadvertently prolonging our desire to marry the woman we’re living with. Or, more simply, we don’t want to share our space until we HAVE to. It’s the stuff of legend and rude awakenings. Of course, once you’re married and you realize you hate your spouse you’re required to at least attempt to work it out before you call Al Cowlings. Again, I understand why we hold off on living together, it just seems like a good place realize whether or not you actually want to marry the person that you’re about to…marry. Or not.

2. Waiting until you’re in love to sample the goods

Fret not, this isn’t another “ladies, give up the booty after date 2″ plea. No. This is more about those individuals who chose to wait until they are in “love” before they are ready to sleep with eachother. And that makes sense. I get it. You want to ensure that the person is fully deserving of your all before you go all in. Pun intended. And that makes lots of sense. Thing is, what if you fall in love with somebody who effectively gives you the worst schlong of your life. Every time and can’t get any better. Or can’t help but use her teeth. Like the damn things just STAY in the way. And you love chicks from Atlanta and the Georgia Dome? It is a beautiful thing to both decide to wait knowing that when you do partake, it will be a surreal and beautiful experience for you both. Or so you hope. If bootydo matters a whole lot to you and you have a terrible partner, will that color the love? Or do you just work it out? If coitus and finances are the main reasons that marriages die, and you ain’t rich and getting bad partnerplay…then what do you do?

3. Waiting to discuss finances until you have to

While I realize that asking somebody their FICO score can be a red flag of tremendous proportions – intrusive much? – the fact is, the more you know about how somebody handles their money will ensure that you don’t end up married to the person who effectively ruins your chance to buy a house with an interest rate that doesn’t rival current employment rates. So I get it, we date people and try to ascertain as much about their responsibilityness and self-management through observation. But peep game, how somebody manages their finances will tell you more than you need to know about whether or not you may want to move forward. But, generally, those conversations don’t come into play much later at which point when you do find out that your partner’s credit score is the over on a Knicks-Golden State basketball game score.

Those are three “traditions” so to speak that I think could use some updating. What say you? Do things make sense as they are? Do we need to hold onto these paradigms to ensure the continuation of the species?

What else you got? Any other perhaps shortsighted traditions?

Speak to me. Petey.

-VSB P aka THE ARSONIST aka lower.case.p aka TANGLE JIG P aka GIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIRL HE A 3

 

  • http://twitter.com/nyevolution TheTalentedMs.Fiasco

    Wow, I haven’t commented in a while, but I wanted to say congratulations on your success VSB! All the new updates are exciting to follow…now back to the blog post.

    • http://verysmartbrothas.com Panama Jackson

      thank you. i haven’t posted for a while. in fact today’s post is my first post in at least 2 years.

      now back to the grill again.

    • http://www.pinchmycheekie.wordpress.com Cheekie

      Hey Fiasco!

  • http://www.twitter.com/Alana_Shantell alana

    Just by reading #1, this post might make it into the top 10. Now to read the post in it’s entirety.

    • http://verysmartbrothas.com Panama Jackson

      would you like to place a bet on the fact that you’re wrong? lol

    • http://www.twitter.com/Alana_Shantell Alana

      1. No living with somebody until you’re married

      I totally understand folks point of view on this. However, I’m straight. It doesn’t have anything to do with getting a damn cow for free or whatever. Living together is part of marriage and part of marriage is overcoming obstacles and compromising. The reality is, people are “transformers” every.single.day. If someone doesn’t want you to see who they are, TRUST, you won’t see them. Yeah, living with someone will truly tell you how they keep house, if they are neat freaks or what have you, but so would a 10 yr relationship. And lets be real, is he REALLY going to marry her after he moves in?

      • http://twitter.com/KitKatCuty84 KitKatCuty84

        I have to agree. Everyone acts like living together is necessary to “test drive” the relationship, but I do agree that, if we’re playing house, and taking on our husband and wife roles before it’s official, first, the guy has no incentive to MAKE it official, and second, we’re not learning anything more about each other than what it’s like to live together. That’s not more ME than I would be if we were still in a relationship and not living together. That’s just ME AT HOME. And no matter how much “research” gets done before marriage, it’s STILL not full-proof. So maybe people need to relax. Third, all this new “research” that’s being done before we make it official (at the guy’s behest almost exclusively), is not lowering America’s divorce rate, if ANYONE has been paying attention…

        • http://lizburr.com Liz

          Right…

        • http://verysmartbrothas.com Panama Jackson

          so part of the reason many women don’t want to cohabitate is b/c by not living together first, he’s more likely to actually propose? is that the belief? i feel like if a man wants to marry you, he will make it happen.

          • http://twitter.com/KitKatCuty84 KitKatCuty84

            Eh, if you say so. I’ve seen it happen. I’ve seen people spend ten years in a relationship with a dude who SAID and supposedly THOUGHT it was in preparation of marriage, only to end in yet another breakup with no wedding bells in sight. So yes, that is the belief.

            Another reason I forgot to mention: Living together is HARD. Whether you’re perfect together or not, you’re going to run into some hiccups when you move in with that person. I know. I did it once. And I will NEVER go through that again unless it’s for my HUSBAND. Some boyfriend who isn’t sure he wants to commit to me doesn’t qualify as someone I’m going to go through that for. We’ll see each other a lot, baby, but no, I’m not going through the living together thing unless you’re forreal.

          • http://tdlove.wordpress.com Tonya

            “i feel like if a man wants to marry you, he will make it happen.”

            True..whether you are living with him or not.

          • Medium Meech

            You’re right. Women do believe this. I’ve had the convo. They think it is something that we look forward to, and that if we have it without a ring then we wont have any reason to propose… I laughed so hard I thought I was having a panic attack and a seizure at the same time.

            • http://twitter.com/KitKatCuty84 KitKatCuty84

              Hmmm…So I take it, then, that you don’t see at all where she was coming from? Or you just disagreed so strongly it was funny? Because I see the logic.

              Dude has a girl that:
              Cooks
              Cleans
              Gives him regular sex to his liking
              Gives him emotional support
              Gives him non-sexual physical companionship (someone to snuggle with on the couch, etc.)
              Goes to painful functions with him
              Etc.

              Not saying this will keep a dude from proposing if he really wants to, but it certainly gives him license to PROCRASTINATE to a point that might be unsatisfactory for the woman. I’m just saying…

              I don’t claim not to be bias on this. I know that I do NOT have the guy’s interest in mind when I say I have no interest in providing wifely duties without the title. But that’s just me. There are PLENTY of women into cohabitating.

              • Medium Meech

                Because it so very far from the way that guys think that girls actually believe that this is what we want is utterly nonsensical. Men don’t see it as having a woman perform wifely duties without the ring. We see it as a HUGE commitment and a sacrifice of our freedom. Cohabitation not only means definite monogamy but also sacrificing the way you interact with your friends, you independence and pretty much your whole lifestyle.

                We get all of the things on your list without sacrificing our independence. They don’t even make the pros list. The only pro is really cheaper rent, maybe. Us moving in is huge sign that we want a life together and want you around all the time, nothing else. In our minds there are no other tangible pros, only sacrifice to be closer to you. Definitely not a carrot to bate us into marriage.

                • http://twitter.com/KitKatCuty84 KitKatCuty84

                  “We see it as a HUGE commitment and a sacrifice of our freedom. Cohabitation not only means definite monogamy but also sacrificing the way you interact with your friends, you independence and pretty much your whole lifestyle.”

                  So why not save this for marriage and not just dating/a relationship?

                  “Us moving in is huge sign that we want a life together and want you around all the time, nothing else.”

                  I thought the sign that you wanted her around all the time and a life together was MARRIAGE. Is moving in together another way to say this? And if so, do guys realize that moving in together isn’t permanent (unless you NEVER plan to marry, in which this should be discussed with your girl), and therefore isn’t the same as marriage (is supposed to be, at least, since we know they’re not ALWAYS permanent)?

                  I’m just wondering. I’m coming from the standpoint of someone who believes in marriage. For those who think that moving in together is the culmination of the relationship and don’t want to get married, then I could fully understand your viewpoint.

                • http://twitter.com/KitKatCuty84 KitKatCuty84

                  Also, I don’t see how guys couldn’t see pros of living with a loving woman, but that’s just me. I certainly could see the pros of living with a loving man…

                • Yeah…So

                  Sorry to intrude but @KitKatCuty84 I so heart you on alladis… I mean everything you said.

                  @Meech if the only pro you see is cheaper rent in cohabbin then you OBVIOUSLY have yet to be involved with a good woman that loves you. Because it’s worth ALOT… a whole lot… ESPECIALLY a ring and your independence.

                • Medium Meech

                  @yeah..So. Why do I have to live with her to truly appreciate the happiness of a good woman that loves?

                • Yeah…So

                  I’m sorry… it’s just that this made me so sad cause… if men really think this way then that means I’m never gonna get married… and I’m great. *hangs head and walks away

                • Yeah…So

                  You mean marry? Cause I’m against cohabbin and I also agree with @KitKat that men who do cohab procastinate because they got the “good life” without the sacrifice… so Ion’t know what you’re askin.

                • Yeah…So

                  Actually I’m not sorry… scratch that.

                • Medium Meech

                  @YS. I don’t think you’re up to speed on what we are talking about. All I was saying was that men don’t see cohabitation as… never mind. Just re read what I wrote.

                • Yeah…So

                  no!

                • Medium Meech

                  You’re crazier than people who liked Heathcliff more than Garfield.

                • Yeah…So

                  Way harsh Meech

                • Medium Meech

                  I’m clueless as to what you’re talking about.

                • Yeah…So

                  lol… you’re so clever… now only if you would learn to stop taking shots at my people… I saw your lil whack@ss Calhoun comment *machine-gun spray*… You take a shot at one of us, you take a shot at us all.

                • DQ

                  Rather than repeat everything Meech said, I’ll just say, “what Meech said” on each and every point. We don’t view co-habitation at ALL the way you are describing it. I’d like to know what men (if any) are suggesting otherwise (cause them ninjas lying)

                • Yeah…So

                  @DQ… I went back and read it… and I get what y’all are sayin I just wish you didn’t separate the meaning/benefits of marriage from the commitment/sanctity itself… it’s like y’all are ok with doing everything married folks do (good and bad) without being married… and that just don’t make sense… and that’s where we disagree… if you’re willing to go through all that then marry me dammit!

              • Medium Meech

                I wasn’t arguing for or against cohabitation, just answering your question as to why I thought it women thinking men wanted cohabitation of the fringe(read french if you are from Atlanta) benefits.

                • Yeah…So

                  fringe(read french if you are from Atlanta) benefits
                  -jerk. hmph.

                • http://twitter.com/KitKatCuty84 KitKatCuty84

                  And I’m just disagreeing that men don’t get anything out of having a person live with them that does all those things that I listed. But, if you don’t see any of that as a good thing, then so be it.

                  Perhaps this issue of cohabitation should be discussed when the relationship is still relatively new, that way the woman won’t be surprised when she finds out the dude thinks living together (and possibly eventual marriage) is some sort of huge sacrifice, rather than something the two of your both WANTED.

                  I honestly don’t want to marry any man who thinks of marriage as a sacrifice. That sounds like he’s equating marriage to imprisonment and shouldn’t be getting married in the first place. I want a dude that doesn’t see it as a sacrifice to spend time (be it short or long-term) to be with me. And if he decides he wants to be with me long-term, I want him to show that commitment with marriage.

                  But, j.ivy (below) is right–the marriage rate is dropping. Most men (and SOME women) are deciding that rather than put any effort into finding someone to settle down with, they should find petty reasons to be perpetually alone, never having to curb their selfishness, and never get married. At least, that’s how I see it.

                • Medium Meech

                  I was talking about men seeing cohabitation as sacrifice for the sake of something they care about more, but marriage is sacrifice too. And compromise. Any relationship is. Hell, anything worth having is. Hopefully the ends justify the means.

                  I wasn’t saying the things you listed weren’t important, you just don’t have to live with the person to benefit from them.

                  I personally wouldn’t want to marry a woman that didn’t understand that marriage wasn’t a victory march, or who was in Calhoun.

                • http://twitter.com/KitKatCuty84 KitKatCuty84

                  “I personally wouldn’t want to marry a woman that didn’t understand that marriage wasn’t a victory march, or who was in Calhoun.”

                  I don’t understand the reference. I certainly wasn’t implying marriage is without compromise. But I don’t see getting to spend the rest of your life with a person who loves you deeply and is willing to live with you and compromise with you as a sacrifice. I think that’s a good thing. I suppose you’ll have to sacrifice having your way completely in any compromise (in or OUT of marriage), so that’s why I don’t think of marriage ITSELF as a problem that needs to be grappled with. Definitely something to be considered with gravity, though.

                • WIP

                  @KKC84
                  “Most men (and SOME women) are deciding that rather than put any effort into finding someone to settle down with, they should find petty reasons to be perpetually alone, never having to curb their selfishness, and never get married.”

                  Well tell ‘em how you really feel, LOL. Interesting perspective IMO

        • http://www.pinchmycheekie.wordpress.com Cheekie

          “first, the guy has no incentive to MAKE it official”

          I’ve always saw this as a reason but I truly don’t buy it. If he has an incentive, he’s gonna have one whether he’s shacking up with you or not. How does not living with him make him want to marry you? I think the only way he feels he’s “off the hook” is if you make him feel like he’s doing you a favor by living with you… which, he ain’t. lol Living together should be a mutual decision not something the man does to appease the woman in regards to their relationship status.

          • LSQ

            your question goes to “what makes a man want to marry”
            ok, this is a secret, so don’t tell nobody:
            we don’t marry in order to get chex.
            we don’t marry so that we can live with you.
            so, ergo, er ah, living together is no factor, holding out on chex – is no factor in establishing a ‘good’ marriage (whateva that is).

            IN FACT:
            if a man does want to marry you to get those two things, (chex, roomate) then you have bigger problems.

          • Jonathan

            “How does not living with him make him want to marry you?”

            Big difference from leasing a ferrari and actually owning one…while some people are content with maintaining the lease and treating it well enough to look good and be driveable, if you buy that ferrari, you’re gonna guard it w/ your life…IMO, that’s the diff of cohabbing and being married…cohabbing can change when the lease is up…so that’s always known as an option, takes a serious reason to stop leasing and buy the car…you get a nice car, and all the luxuries of a nice car w/o having to buy one…but when you buy it….you’re fully invested, with your emotions and all that….you aren’t trying to sell your car, and it ain’t as easy if you decide to…you can have your emotions in the leased car, but at the end, you can easily turn it back in and get another one…it’s a difference in mindset that prevents the cohabbin turning into marriage in a reasonable amount of time in most cases…

        • j.ivy

          Third, all this new “research” that’s being done before we make it official (at the guy’s behest almost exclusively), is not lowering America’s divorce rate, if ANYONE has been paying attention…

          no, but I do think it’s lowering the marriage rate.
          While I can see the sensibility in living together, I’m against it, BECAUSE I think it is really just an opportunity to find dumb reasons not to be with someone. Everyone is gonna drive you nuts. No one does it like you. i don’t care how much I love you, if you consistently leave toothpaste on the sink, it’s gonna drive me crazy. a combination of lil things like that might be the impetus for jettin when the lease is up. I’m not against moving in together during engagement though. May sound…irrational, but for me, the label marriage demands that I put that stuff in perspective. We “go together” doesn’t demand that from me. i don’t have to deal with this nasty ninja, I can break out! and I would #staylosing eligible partners over stuff like that.

          I really believe that if we knew EVERYTHING about a person before marriage, the marriage rate would be 6%.

          • http://twitter.com/KitKatCuty84 KitKatCuty84

            “I’m not against moving in together during engagement though. May sound…irrational, but for me, the label marriage demands that I put that stuff in perspective. We “go together” doesn’t demand that from me. i don’t have to deal with this nasty ninja, I can break out! and I would #staylosing eligible partners over stuff like that.”

            I totally cosign this comment. :)

          • http://www.pinchmycheekie.wordpress.com Cheekie

            Yeah, moving in when engaged is probably ideal for me…

          • WIP

            “I really believe that if we knew EVERYTHING about a person before marriage, the marriage rate would be 6%”

            Well people get to know everything and the divorce rate is 50% right? So 6% is probably a stretch, LOL. I don’t think getting and staying married happens because people ‘know everything about each other’ it’s because people make the decision to accept others as they are- the things they know and the things they have yet to find out. It’s more mindset than knowledge IMO. But I’m not married so…ya.

        • WIP

          The “incentive” to make it official is you, living together or not. If it time to move to the next level and he’s not stepping up, you’re out. Isn’t the prize being your husband? With that said, I did let my friend know that he wasn’t getting wife treatment until he had a wife LOL.

        • Smokie

          I didn’t live with my husband until we said I DO. Best decision I ever could have made. We had a whole year to get to know each other even better…it was like a breath of fresh air for our relationship. I recommend it to everyone.

      • http://twitter.com/SmartFoxGirl SmartFoxGirl

        I fornicated for a while and in my experience, I believe that living with someone will definitely tell you who you are. There’s an old island saying that says “See me and come live with me, two different things” Living with someone is soooo different and you see alot more. I think once a couple get’s engaged, they should move in together during their engagement period. Just my 2 cents. That way you can see all that you need to see.

        God bless you.

        • Yeah…So

          You do know this comment COMPLETELY contradicts the Bible, right?

          God bless you too.

          lol. SFG, cut it OUT!

          • http://lizburr.com Liz

            LOL! Leave Sister SFG alone!

          • PraiseTheLord30

            Because I am a good person, I will still bless you while giving my 2 cents.

            God bless you.

            • PraiseTheLord30

              Oops! I mean because SFG is a good person.

              I am not SmartFoxGirl.

              Carry on…

        • Mo-VSS

          LMAO…yo, I might have some shots fired, but I think a LOT of the stuff in the Bible was written to address the social ills occuring at that time. Now, a lot of the social ills occur today as well…but a woman can take care of herself. Living together before marriage was out of the question because before marriage a woman remained with her family. Dude summoned and that was that.

          But, now women can have jobs, support themselves and even do better than men in some areas. So, living together doesn’t seem to be the end all-be all that some folks thing will doom a relationship. Again…I’m sure the stones are coming, but that’s my opinion

          • j.ivy

            I”ll try to send you a cup of ice water from heaven. i hear it’s hot where you’re going.

            lol.

            • Mo-VSS

              Hey, all these “weekend shackers” and “fornicators in the confines of a relationship” folks are coming there with me.

              I guess the issue I have with folks on the “operation side-eye shacking ” program is those very same folks are of the feeling that pre-marital sex is not “that” bad, so they do what they do. But the pre-marital fornicators look at the folks shacking and having pre-marital sex as the ultimate no-no and ultimate in terms of sin. Uhm…no. It’s the same.

              • Caballeroso

                I agree with you Mo-VSS. The very people who would throw stones at “shackers” live in glass homes that allow us to see all the lying they do, all the defiling of the temple they commit through excess intake of alcohol, all the claiming of neighbor’s kids on the income tax paper work, and all the myriad of other so called sins that they willing partake in, yet somehow they feel all high and mighty when someone commits the one sin that they themselves do not partake in. Maybe I’m ill-informed, but the reason that shacking is frowned upon is the fact that shackers are presumed to be fornicating. So, if someone is fornicating and not cohabitating, is that really so much better? As I understand, all sins are equal in the eyes of God, so what gives? If two consenting adults want to cohabitate and share their lives to more easily facilitate the process of two becoming one, so be it, but I’m a heathen so take it with a grain of salt.

                • http://www.twitter.com/Alana_Shantell Alana

                  @CAB

                  For someone to be a heathen, you are completely right. NO WHERE in the bible does it say people aren’t to live together. However, I’m sure the assumption is if folks are living together they are getting it in. But, you can’t put one with the other. Guess it deals with the temptation of some warm, muscular man next to you (not you) and you wake up like, “well, it is right there”. LOL

                  Nothing to do with anything, I thought you were atheist/agnostic?

                • Yeah…So

                  @Alana Corinthians 7:1-40… just sayin.

                • http://www.twitter.com/Alana_Shantell Alana

                  @Yeah

                  I don’t have any issue with the fornication, but where does it say living together is wrong?

                • Yeah…So

                  Oh I see… ok.

                  Genesis 2:24 “Therefore a man shall leave his father and his mother and hold fast to his wife, and they shall become one flesh.”… see wife, not live-in girlfriend… The Bible can be interpreted in many ways so I’mma leave it at that.

              • WIP

                Exactly. It sounds like some folks are trying to hold on to ‘not living together’ as there last little bit of salvation.

                • WIP

                  their

                • Mo-VSS

                  Right and that’s what annoys me. People talmabout “don’t live together cuz it’s sin,” but they stay in the club, looking for “the one for the night”, particpate in weekend shacking and weekday loving on a regular but once someone lives togethe it’s like “oh…them heathens….mmmmmmm.”

                  No bueno on that attitude.

            • PraiseTheLord30

              @j.ivy

              That was rude. I cannot say God bless you to that. Don’t judge thy neighbor. *pulls out flame thrower*

              @Mo
              I agree. I don’t take everything in the bible to heart. Each person can decide what’s right for them in that regard. Most are fcuking before marriage so who’s to throw stones.

              • Hawaii

                Oh my. I ? it! This has made my day.

                2011 is officially coming up VSB because the present of The Lord is all up and through this comment section. Will you always be with us, Lord?
                This is just too rad!

        • Shay

          I fornicated for a while and in my experience…

          I was pretty much chuckling from this point onward. Good end to a longish day.

      • TekRighter

        Yes. Me and my S/O have been living together for 2.5 years (been together for almost 6; no kids) and are making it official in a few months.

        • Yeah…So

          6 years? Got dang!

          • Please, No Photos

            @ Yeah…So: If you and I plan to spend the rest of our lives together, why does it matter whether we get married after 2 years or after 12 years?

            • Yeah…So

              Just seems like a really really long time to make it official dats all… but that’s also me… I mean, I could very well ask why wait?

          • Yeah…So

            Oh yeah… congrats! :D … ewww, there’s no recovery is there?

        • Caballeroso

          Congratulations, and thanks for letting commenters see that shacking does not preclude marriage.

        • WIP

          Congratulations

        • PraiseTheLord30

          Congrats TekRighter!!

        • Shorty@Law

          @TekRighter Thank you for that touch of reality.

          My husband moved in with me 2 years after we started dating. We knew we weren’t going anywhere so why rush? We saved our money bought a house and lived there for 4 more years. Just got married last year. When I said “I DO” I was 110% sure of my decision because we had already seen the better and worst of each other. Maybe not for everybody but I wouldn’t have had it any other way.

          Our friends were together even longer than we were when they got married but had never lived together. They stay in marriage counselling.

          Side note- I’ve been lurking for over a year now and I don’t know what I love more this blog or the comments. I also love the book awesome job!

  • http://twitter.com/sweetdivalove Mia

    “And I’m guessing Magnums in Tokyo go for real cheap. I figure its one of those places where supply doesn’t necessarily create demand. Take that Reagan. Swing low, sweet chariot. Trickle deez.”

    This gave me so much life.

    • http://verysmartbrothas.com Panama Jackson

      panama gives you life. nas gives you power.

      all we do is win win win no matter what.

      • http://www.twitter.com/Alana_Shantell Alana

        I’ll bet that I’m wrong..you bet that I’m right.

  • http://www.pinchmycheekie.wordpress.com Cheekie

    “1. No living with somebody until you’re married”

    Yeah, I’m strongly against this one. I agree in that you really don’t know someone until you live with them. And in fact, other than the contractual ish, I truly think living together is the main difference between marriage and just dating. I definitely gotta do the trial run thing. Sure some women thing that they’d be strung along, but if a ninja really doesn’t wanna get married, he’ll string you along whether you live in the same house or not. And best believe, he’ll be contributing his end of the deal as if he were a roomie.

    “2. Waiting until you’re in love to sample the goods”

    I’m assuming this one is for the non-virgines… ;)

    OR IS IT?!

    “3. Waiting to discuss finances until you have to”

    I’m not sure when “you have to” exactly is, but I’m of the mind that this type of convo can happen organically, considering I’m American, greedy, and C.R.E.A.M. It’ll come up sooner than you think. lol

    • http://thatdamnafrican.wordpress.com/ That Damn African

      “2. Waiting until you’re in love to sample the goods”

      I’m assuming this one is for the non-virgines… ”

      I was about to ask the same thing.

    • http://verysmartbrothas.com Panama Jackson

      i didnt write that solely for non-virgines. cant say i thought that hard about it. so if the cole haan don’t fit, buy another shoe. or something. i suck at cliches.

      and i think that a lot of people skirt around asking direct questoins about finances early on b/c it is an awkward convo to have. you can’t just say…so baby, i’m just trying to see if you got wifeboothanglovemuffin po’tential. so um, i got your phone number, but now i need that other one: your credit score. give it up, or turn it lose. but more importantly, either love me or leave me alone if your credit score gets lower than two basketball wives at a club in miami.”

      • http://www.twitter.com/Alana_Shantell Alana

        I feel this, but umm, they can LIE about this like folks do about every other thing. When will the truth about a credit score come up? When they’re trying to buy their first house AFTER they are married?!?

        • http://lizburr.com Liz

          lol you guys are acting like a credit score can’t be changed. Or improved upon. It’s not branded on your butt for eternity. But, marriage should be for forever. I guess I just have a different perspective. I’m not apologizing for poor credit scores but it really isn’t the end of my world if all things with my sig other seem to be great. “He was my life partner save for that pesky FICO.” A bad FICO might mean some poor habits but….habits can be changed if both people are willing to work on them.

          • Medium Meech

            I don’t think I will ever have a great credit score. Something in me is just gets angry at the thought of taking on debt for the sole purpose of proving I can pay off debt. I really believe that outside of a house or a car, you shouldn’t need to take out a loan to afford something. I also feel that credit cards should be for emergencies.

            • http://lizburr.com Liz

              Yeah the credit rating system is really just that: a system. Not to be all conspiracy theory on ya’ll but a lot of it just doesn’t make sense, and you have drank the kool-aid. A lot of people with decent credit scores are in huge amounts of debt: that’s how they got that debt in the first place lol. I’d rather focus my marriage on being debt free, which people in general don’t think enough about. A FICO score is not my marriage bottom line, sorry.

              • Medium Meech

                Wise words. I’m not saying that finances should be discussed, but if the foundation of your marriage is a FICO score, then your marriage might not be to secure. And you probably need to reflect on why you’re married in the first place.

              • Sula

                To piggyback on what you just said, my credit score was low for years because well I had zero credit history! Lol. I moved here for college… didn’t have any loans, lived on campus so didn’t have any bills, and only bought things my work study job could afford me. Lol…. When I tried to get a cell phone, the lady told me that a bad credit history is often better than no credit. Say what?? Lol.

                Anyways, long story short, I have never actively worked on “building my credit”… The debt I have is my car and even that is ending pretty soon… Like you, I would rather live debt free than with 800+ credit score.

            • Yeah…So

              I really believe that outside of a house or a car, you shouldn’t need to take out a loan to afford something. I also feel that credit cards should be for emergencies.
              -See info like this is WAYYYY better than anything a FICO would tell… shows wisdom… but who would know if it was never talked about?

          • http://www.twitter.com/Alana_Shantell Alana

            Finances are important, and I agree, Credit Scores don’t tell the story. A low credit score says you were late on bills…big time. But, it doesn’t say why or intentions or motives. Now, if you had a credit card, maxed that ish out at NewYorkandCompany…yep, NY&Co, and had no intentions of paying it back, THAT’S an issue. But if you put your tuition on credit cards and you didn’t have a job to pay it back but your arse needed to finish your last semester at school… Would you date one and not the other knowing the different situations? A credit score does not tell folks these things.

            I’m an Accountant, and numbers are just that, numbers. Just looking at the Balance Sheet, yeah, it says, I have 2Mil in assets in the form of Inventory, but that sh*t might be 5 yrs old. I’m not moving it, so I really need to write that crap off. My balance sheet is not properly stated, that damn $2Mil didn’t tell anyone sh*t and the auditors are about to get my ass!

          • http://verysmartbrothas.com Panama Jackson

            I know they can be improved. But I do view marriage as a business partnership of sorts. You are agreeing to manage your life with somebody else. Only in that sense do I think its important to know.

            Plus, I know several individuals who have suffered b/c the person they married had horrible credit. Now, I don’t think its a reason not to marry or even be with somebody, but I do think conversations like that should happen.

            • WeGottaDoBetter

              Do you know of any individuals who had horrible credit and turned it around? Just saying, it should be looked at from both perspectives. I agree that it is a conversation that should definitely happen.

              • http://www.pinchmycheekie.wordpress.com Cheekie

                “Do you know of any individuals who had horrible credit and turned it around?”

                Yeah, it’s called filing bankruptcy. lol

                It takes a while but, folks I know had horrible credit are now getting credit card offers again and shat. *praying that they don’t go that route again*

                • http://lizburr.com Liz

                  LOL. Cheeks. There are whole books and online forums dedicated to improving your credit score without going bankrupt. the system is actually really messed up, and there are tons of things you can do to get your score up. The problem is a lot of people don’t know these things (the man is out to get you) and they remain with lots of low scores. hence why I don’t trip too hard about scores. It’s definitely modifiable, especially for someone who doesn’t live on credit but has had a troubled past they’re trying to rectify. If you’re with someone who just can’t put the credit card down, then that’s not a credit score issue but something else entirely.

                • http://www.pinchmycheekie.wordpress.com Cheekie

                  “If you’re with someone who just can’t put the credit card down, then that’s not a credit score issue but something else entirely.”

                  Agreed!

              • WIP

                Mine wasn’t “horrible” but it was below average. I completely turned it around by never paying late and paying stuff off. Also, u know somethings disappear with time. So bad credit is definitely fixable. Not to mention when u are a team, u work on these things together. U be strong where your spouse is weak and vice-a-versa. It would be nice if we all came prepackaged and perfect but that’s not reality.

            • j.ivy

              i agree that the convo is necessary because my credit is GREAT, like Kim Kardashian’s new song, http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jXPX8GBWZno&feature=player_embedded
              riiiight, so by GREAT I was essentially saying it’s HOT GARBAGE simmerin in a July sun…soooo it’s imperative that my mate’s is better or we won’t have SH!T!!! lol. I’m working to improve it now, but yeah, I do wanna know that my mate recognizes the importance of credit.

        • SpottieOttieDarlin

          exactly, Alana. maybe it’s one of those- I show you mine if you show me yours kinda things.

      • http://www.pinchmycheekie.wordpress.com Cheekie

        “i didnt write that solely for non-virgines. cant say i thought that hard about it. so if the cole haan don’t fit, buy another shoe. or something. i suck at cliches.”

        Gotcha. With the whole “what if it sucks and you stuck with the one you love” thing, the reason why I said virgines may be exempt from this one is because the whole “it may suck” thing is assumed REGARDLESS. So, it’s probably better (if you had to choose) to go with the love bug. :)

        Oh, and you can send my Cole Haan in the mail. I’m an 8 1/2 and my favorite color is red. Grazie.

      • Hawaii

        “so if the cole haan don’t fit, buy another shoe.”
        Ain’t this ’bout a?!!!…. I was just at Neiman’s this past weekend wanting to purchase a specific pair of Cole Haan’s but the heels are half a size smaller than my normal size and even though they fit, it’s not a very comfortable one so, I was thinking if I should purchase anyway and I thought to my self this morn, “Should I go get those shoes?” and then I end up coming over here to see you say this *smh*. Wow.
        Thank you, JC. Thank you, PJ. :D

  • http://twitter.com/sweetdivalove Mia

    More and more couples need to talk about their finances. A friend of mine had no know idea that her fiancée was deep in debt.
    Last time I checked Love was not accepted at the Wal-Marts.

    • keisha brown

      Last time I checked Love was not accepted at the Wal-Marts.
      THIS!
      LMAO!!!!

      btw neither is pride or ego.

    • http://verysmartbrothas.com Panama Jackson

      was your friend the inspiration for those creditscore.com commercials?

  • http://twitter.com/sweetdivalove Mia

    Oh child forgive my spelling/grammar mistake. *no
    3 hours of sleep. Final in the morning. Blame Week 10 at Ohio State

    • http://verysmartbrothas.com Panama Jackson

      well, ooh ooh chile things are gonna get easier. let us know how week 12 looks.

  • http://ThinkPrettySmart.typepad.com Ms. Smart

    1. Getting a diploma and any higher education. Why bother? I could be in less student loan debt (which isn’t negatively impacting my ‘well qualified credit score), if I’d focused my energy and ‘pretty’ on finding a sharecropper rapper to impregnate me.

    2. Christening children and giving them God parents. What are they really good for? We don’t have outbreaks of cholera anymore so there isn’t a need to send our kids to their God parents in a neighboring town to keep them safe from disease.

    3. Asking father’s for a woman’s hand is useless. She doesn’t have a father and by trying to sneak and find him so you can ask him for her hand in marriage, you’re only piercing her heart by bringing up his absence through her childhood. Get the full story before you go trying to find Mr. Jones to ask for Karlisheia Green’s hand in marriage.

    • resIpsa

      HILARIOUS! why her name had to be Karlisheia Green tho? you ain’t right.

      and sharecropper rapper? so, when he’s not tending to the farm, he’s mixing beats in a studio fashioned out of plywood that doubles as a barn? (iDied)

      but i will defend higher education. even if you don’t get a six figure job, it’s still useful to understand the world around you and be educated just for survival. alas, not too many universities and colleges adequately prepare their graduates for life’s realities…

      • http://ThinkPrettySmart.typepad.com Ms. Smart

        I used that name because the odds of anyone named Karlisheia having her fathers name are pretty slim. As are the odds that she really knows him as more than a passing thought. Sad, but true.

        Sharecropper rappers speak a language I don’t understand. Think Waka Flocka. I’ll do a little car boogie to it but for the life of me, I can’t understand more than three words in each song.

        I know education is useful. But since we’re throwing out traditions (yes education is still a tradition in some circles), then hell, why not throw out education since being dumb seems to be all the rage. Oh and people can’t get jobs. Ridiculous right?

        • kamakula

          Karl Malone could have named a daughter this.

          • Be On It

            lol and karl malone abandoned his oldest children until they were well into their college years (they also were the children by the black mother…)

        • http://eboneeyes.wordpress.com Eb

          good point. seeing as how you’re already pre-prepared for debt once you graduate. then you have six months to get a job and make a salary that’ll suffice that 2-400 bucks sallie mae is gonna tax you for. its a good set up america. a goooooood set up.

    • CurlyTop

      I think the God parent thing should stay, no there aren’t cholera outbreaks (in the US) anymore but God parents are important for three reasons.

      1) Kids get annoying after they learn to speak, can’t take it? Grandparents no longer around? Send them to the God parents and it’s their responsibility now.

      2) If I die my child will not be part of the system. Real talk, my brothers couldn’t take care of a sandwich if their life depended on it. A God parent assures they will be taken care of till the age of 18. IF and only if the person chosen is not a hidden crazy I did not take into account.

      3) I’m not paying for your Tim’s of Nike’s, so ask your God parent for it. We have real bills so if you want to floss go ask someone else for help. My job is to feed, clothe, and provide a safe and nurturing environment; not to keep your shoe game up. God parents in islands give money-or at least mine did-so kids can seek stupid ish from them, not me.

      • ac dubois

        I’m assuming these godparents don’t have their own children to take care of… For the record my “godparents” took me to chuckie cheese once, I feel like I missed out lol

      • Honey

        touche’ curly top. God parents for the win.

    • http://verysmartbrothas.com Panama Jackson

      I find it funny how many studies exist now lamenting the returns on education. It’s almost like researchers are attempting to get more people into the workforce earlier or something. Or perhaps attempting to weed out the uninspired. I don’t know.

      What I do know is that I want you. And I know that if you love me too, what a wonderful world this would be.

    • Sula

      Ms. Smart for the witty reply. Lol!

  • http://iamyourpeople.com/ I Am Your People

    “And I’m guessing Magnums in Tokyo go for real cheap.” Random – if you think Azzcrack, Mississippi is conservative about birth control, Japan has it beat. A coworker who lived there said birth control pills became legal when Viagra did. Yup, 30 yrs behind the rest of the frigging world. Anyway..

    1. No living with somebody until you’re married
    I agree. You get viewed as a roommate-with-benefits and not a potential spouse

    2. Waiting until you’re in love to sample the goods
    I don’t believe in treating my vag!na like a park and ride, so I think it’s a good rule. Hey, for every me there’s a Kat Stacks, so the universe balances out

    3. Waiting to discuss finances until you have to
    Hmmmm. If is FICO score is negative bus pass and he had racks on racks of Powerball tickets, I probably want to know that as early as possible. But I don’t honestly know when you’re supposed to ask this question.

    • http://ThinkPrettySmart.typepad.com Ms. Smart

      Get out of my head! High five to all three of your responses. In addition, I believe marriage has really bad PR. I think a lot of people don’t know the 1400 or so state and federal benefits that come along with marriage. That helps in them being able to shack up, dismissing the legal ramifications of NOT being married but sharing a household. A simple Google search would set them straight. The negative PR has led men to be super concerned about getting half of what they have taken. Newsflash, nobody wants half of a daggone Explorer or mid-sized BMW. Also, I think a lot of people believe most states are still recognizing common law marriages. Nerp. Not any more.

      • http://iamyourpeople.com/ I Am Your People

        Also, I think a lot of people believe most states are still recognizing common law marriages. Nerp. Not any more.

        Actually, this usually backfires in that some states have legal palimony. If you can prove that you’ve been financially dependent on a romantic partner for X amount of time, you can collect it. Men think they’re getting out of having to pay money from a divorce – not true

      • http://hotbiscuitsandgravy.blogspot.com Bengemin Grehe

        Marriage has negative PR? Sure. But getting half of what I have taken is actually the last thing I’m concerned about. No, there are many other reasons to be super concerned about getting married.

      • j.ivy

        Newsflash, nobody wants half of a daggone Explorer or mid-sized BMW.

        Thank you Ms. Smart! I can’t understand for the life of me why so many dudes with a lil something are so protective, when the dudes who have something to lose tend to be far less concerned. Give me a break sir. Plus, I’m a lifer soooo, if the marriage ends, trust I’m gettin everything unless your WILL explicitly states otherwise.

        • WIP

          Say it one more time! Why dudes that barely have two cents to their names always talking about women being gold-diggers ? If we were gold-diggers, there would barely be any loving going on because last time I checked, it’s hard for everybody in these streets. (And if we being real with it, if I was really a gold-digger I’d be g@y. I don’t know a broke homo$exual. I’m just saying…)

          • CaribbeanQueen

            YES i always say to myself, how come i NEVER see a gay man that is not fly? always got the most expensive stuff. always got money. I wonder how they do it

    • http://lizburr.com Liz

      I think living with your boyfriend sets the tone that we can live together and either one of you can eject yourself from the situation whenever you want. Then after we sign some paperwork, all that is supposed to just change overnight? I look forward to waiting until I am married to live with my husband. Not knocking those who do it but, it’s not my ideal.

      • Betamale

        And I was gonna ask if I could move in…damn, damn, damn. Where is the love?

        On second thought, I’m not feeling your area code so lets meet in the middle around the Virginia Beach area.

        You game?

        • http://lizburr.com Liz

          LOL no. It’s either LA or nothing!

      • Girl Kanyeshrug

        I agree Liz

      • LSQ

        Marriage certainly doesn’t impede a person’s ability to ‘eject’. Perhaps the man is more reticent, but its almost always beneficial to the woman to call “bailout bailout bailout” and “pull the handgrips” on a marriage.

        • http://lizburr.com Liz

          Yeah, it doesn’t. I feel people break up for petty reasons, “he doesn’t make me happy” etc etc but to me this is a sign of not taking the time to really get to know your mate before marriage. Moving in together seems like a false checklist item, “well, I know how she is first thing in the morning, I think I can marry her now.”

          • http://verysmartbrothas.com Panama Jackson

            I dont think many men would honestly say, that though. Women for that matter. While I do think its to each his own, and I’m certainly not saying everybody needs to go out there and move in together, you have to admit, the knowledge you gain about both yourself and the other person you are sharing common space with is invaluable.

            Hell, I learn about ninjas who come into town for a weekend for some conference or something. Be ready to kick them folks out after 24 hours. That’s a red flag. Lil Wayne.

            • http://lizburr.com Liz

              People in this thread are saying that though, P. The other argument is, “wow I didn’t really *know* this person until I moved in with them.” Whose to say you wouldn’t have learned these things had you given yourself *time* to figure them out. Some of the things being cited are character issues such as dealing with stress: I work with people who I know handle stress poorly and it didn’t take my living with them to figure this out. It took my spending time with them to figure this out. Same with friends. You CAN figure this out without signing leases, changing addresses, etc….which to me sounds *drumroll* less complicated than moving in. I think people put too much emphasis on the co-habitating aspect and less on the allowing-time-to-happen aspect of the situation.

              • Sula

                *LIKE*

              • T

                VSB needs a like button. Well said Liz

          • http://www.twitter.com/Alana_Shantell Alana

            “he doesn’t make me happy”

            SAY THAT LIZ! The reality is, you weren’t a happy person when you two got together. You would have known he doesn’t make you happy if you were already happy when you met, he would’ve placed a damper on your happiness. Sorry, he broke out the wonger, it made you happy for a day (because you hadn’t seen one in 6 months). Now that you’re getting it everyday, you’re back to your bad aura, miserable self that you were before you met him. Get happy on your own before you decide to bring a man in your life of Aldi 10 cent grocery bags!

            Real talk, this isn’t real life. :D

          • Lelechigyrl

            Liz, I totally agree with you. If I allow certain behaviors before we get married, please explain how marriage is going to all of a sudden change things. Marry a person because you love them and cant live the rest of your life without them…not because the dont leave the top off the toothpaste…jus sayin!

      • kamakula

        From an objective standpoint, marriage is just some paperwork. Sure, you lose more than your security deposit and whatever fine if you break the contract early, but you can still eject yourself if it comes to that.

        My reasoning for not living together before marriage has always been more about keeping parent’s happy than worry it would adversely affect a relationship. I can come up with reasons to explain the stats on cohabitation and marriage.

    • WIP

      “You get viewed as a roommate-with-benefits and not a potential spouse…”

      Why would you be viewed this way? If you are only viewed as a “roommate” that means you weren’t viewed as a real companion before you moved in with that person. It also depends on when you move in and what agreements are made beforehand. Moving in to “help out” is different from moving in because you can’t stand being apart and see no reason to be (because you’re disgustingly in love, LOL).

    • http://twitter.com/SmartFoxGirl SmartFoxGirl

      “2. Waiting until you’re in love to sample the goods
      I don’t believe in treating my vag!na like a park and ride, so I think it’s a good rule. Hey, for every me there’s a Kat Stacks, so the universe balances out”

      I remember the 90 day rule post where I got SLAMMED for saying I like to wait. Whew, people like their booty quick and fast. How dare you hold out! lol

      • http://verysmartbrothas.com Panama Jackson

        I remember the 90 day rule post where I got SLAMMED for saying I like to wait. Whew, people like their booty quick and fast. How dare you hold out! lol

        you couldn’t have gotten slammed…at least not for 90 days after that post.

  • fixedwater

    Yeah, I think #1 is ready should go and #3 is important only if you are seriously dating. But I’m gonna leave #2 alone. Some people can handle sex without love while others may turn into some kind of crazy because of it.

  • MsEvaHoney

    1. I am 30 and have never lived with a S/O. i used to be adament about not living together before marriage, it was wrong blablah blah, Now I have gotten so use to living alone and having my own routine, Im not sure how I would with a s/o in but im not against it.

    2.O_______O

    • MsEvaHoney

      3. too many varibles for me to discuss tonight. See yall tomorrow

      • http://verysmartbrothas.com Panama Jackson

        It’s tomorrow.