we’ve all heard the story before: black boy meets and falls in love with books, but anti-book black classmates beat, berate, and ban him from all future block bbq’s for properly conjugating verbs, eating fat-free mayonnaise, and generally acting “white”.
stuart buck examines this phenomenon in “acting white: the ironic legacy of desegragration“, an earnest attempt to understand the (worsening) academic progress of african-americans in the years after schools were integrated. while i agree with many of the points made—especially the reference to the “soft prejudice of low expectations from racist teachers who assumed blacks weren’t capable and from liberals who coddled them“—this book ultimately disappoints for one simple reason: the title.
let me explain.
whether we’re accepting the “truth” that black men marry out almost three times as much as black women (despite the fact that the actual numbers—according to census stats from 2006, 3.7% of married black american women and 8.4% of married black american men had a non-Black spouse—show that there’s really not much of a discrepancy), or passing the news that 50 percent of all black women in washington, d.c. have active herpes (even though the oft-cited study actually claimed that 48 percent of the black women tested had just been exposed to the herpes virus—big, big difference), we (african-americans. myself included) have an annoying tendency to believe, recite, repeat, and spread chicken little statistical half-truths and scary campfire stories about ourselves regardless of how half-assed the “facts” happen to be. so, it doesn’t surprise me when others start to believe, recite, repeat, and spread these facts as well.
perhaps the most dangerous of these bullshit memes is “the danger of acting white” idea, which basically states that high achieving black children are routinely picked on by other black children just because they’re high achievers…something that just doesn’t f*cking happen.
yup, you read that correctly. it (high achieving black children getting routinely picked on by other black children just because they’re high achievers) doesn’t f*cking happen…at least not in the way it’s usually thought to.
here’s three reasons why.
***before i continue, i just want to say that i do realize that there have been black kids picked on and beat up (and worse) by other black kids just because they happened to be good students. i’m also not attempting to minimize the very real fact that a disturbing sense of intellectual and academic apathy exists among far too many of us. all i’m saying is that this (black kids getting picked on by other blacks just because they’re smart) doesn’t happen as often as we’re lea to believe***
1. akeelah and the bee
one of the most ridiculously realistic scenes in movie history occurs about an hour into akeelah and the bee. if you recall, akeelah gets clowned and dismissed by her brother, namond brice, who also assumes that the neighborhood dopeboy he hopes to work for would find akeelah’s spelling bee competition as simple and stupid as he does. instead, the dopeboy gives akeelah encouragement, tells akeelah about the poems he used to write, and even orders namond to help his little sister study.
this scene is ridiculous because the neighborhood dopeboy is played by the rubberband man, a guy who screams “thug” about as loudly as donnie mcclurkin screams “straight”. but, it’s realistic because this actually does happen. as anyone who’s actually lived in or taught at an inner-city school district will tell you, the school and neighborhood thugs are usually either indifferent towards or encouraging of kids that seem to have a bit of “talent”, whether it’s academic or athletic (as long as they don’t snitch, of course).
2. smart kids don’t get picked on just because they’re smart, but…
…nerdy kids do. and, this happens everywhere, not just in the inner-city. regardless of their socioeconomic or racial background, nerds get teased because, well, they’re nerds, and socially awkward kids are easy targets.
i know this seems obvious, but it just annoys me when people act as if nerdy kids are “allowed” to be nerds everywhere else except the hood. i’m amazed at how easily we’ve allowed this context-less meme to spread, especially since it basically calls us a nation full of crabs. sh*t, there’s a reason revenge of the nerds is such a cult-classic. it’s a vicarious revenge fantasy for nerds, their opportunity to reverse the sh*t that happens to nerds everywhere, and it’s filled with gratuitous boob shots.
that’s actually two reasons, but you get my point.
3. some young adults actually do act “white”…and they do deserve to be picked on
by acting “white” i’m not referring to using proper english, listening to weezer instead of weezy, not using washcloths, or even dating outside of your race. but, there are people who do their absolute best to rid themselves of any apparent trace of black culture, and those people deserve to be admonished.
i won’t go into too much detail about how exactly “doing your absolute best to rid yourself of any trace of black culture” is defined, but i will say that its definition is somewhat similar to porn’s: you know it when you see it.
basically, just think of any character ever played by rashida jones.
anyway, people of vsb.com: do you think that the “acting white” meme (where most smart black kids are discouraged from achieving by people who say they’re acting white) is a myth, or does this sh*t actually occur in an alternative universe i obviously know absolutely nothing about?
—the champ
This Tuesday feels like a Monday. Which is pretty white.
I almost had you! One day…one day LOL!
Woo, Cheeks!! Girl I couldnt race for 1st today – I’m still recovering from my 4th of July weekend!!
Woot!!
We’ll see about tomorrow night
“Woo, Cheeks!! Girl I couldnt race for 1st today – I’m still recovering from my 4th of July weekend!!”
You sure it wasn’t the late posting that threw you off?
But yeah, I was even able to stay up that late because I took an early evening nap. Working on the holiday wore me the eff out.
oooh am i in the top 5?
thats what she said
So, um Champster, sometimes you make me give you the side-eye when you take shots at me, but I LOVE you for this:
“3. some young adults actually do act “white”…and they do deserve to be picked on
by acting “white” i’m not referring to using proper english, listening to weezer instead of weezy, or even dating outside of your race. but, there are people who do their absolute best to rid themselves of any apparent trace of black culture, and those people deserve to be admonished.
i won’t go into detail about how exactly “doing your absolute best to rid yourself of any trace of black culture” is defined, but i will say that its definition is somewhat similiar to porn’s: you know it when you see it.”
This is THEE best and most succinct way I’ve been trying to explain this ish, and for this you deserve a hug.
Oh, and two words: Carlton Banks. Again, not because he’s (allegedly) smart, but because…hello?! He is OBVIOUSLY imitating his 2520 peers. Yeah, he’s not less black in the real world because of it, but that over-eagerness to mimic your melanin-challenged peers gives me the side-eye. Naw, there’s not just one way to be Black, but some folks are just too damn obvious. K? K.
Oh, and I hatechu again for calling her brother, “Namond Brice”. But, at the same time don’t blame you. Character acting is a b*tch. Can take over your entire being and nothing else but that one character exists.
(take me outta moderation, please) *pout*
I know, Cheeks. I peeped that, too. You know Champ go to throw a Wire reference in there, and it was a good one in this case.
It really was. Also…*waves at CBG*
*waves back at Cheeks*
But he also plays crab man on that show Earl or something. Well long story short he’s a crab who’s giving a boost and not pulling down. How about that?
Wu, I’m pretty certain that Crabman is playing the neighborhood doughboy and Namond plays Akeelah’s brother.
The main issue I have always had with The Carlton’s of the world is that it is often obvious that they and everyone else knows that the way they are behaving is forced and inauthentic. I get offended and annoyed when I am expected to treat caricatures like they are people.
“I get offended and annoyed when I am expected to treat caricatures like they are people.”
i heart this. lol
lol, so did I. It’s long…but…t-shirt!
Maybe one part on the front and the rest on the back.
“I get offended and annoyed when I am expected to treat caricatures like they are people.”
Make that two “hearts” for this statement!
“Yeah, he’s not less black in the real world because of it, but that over-eagerness to mimic your melanin-challenged peers gives me the side-eye”
yeah, this is exactly what i meant. its the zealousness to mimic that grates, not the fact that you might happen to skateboard and think katie holmes is hot
@Champ:
“yup, you read that correctly. it (high achieving black children getting routinely picked on by other black children just because they’re high achievers) doesn’t f*cking happen…at least not in the way it’s usually thought to.”
While it doesn’t always happen just because black kids are high achievers, it does occur. I hear your point that there may be other mitigating factors that contribute to kids getting picked on. I totally know that kids can be major a**es and will pick on anyone who is different. However, in my experience and in those of other black people I have spoken to, sometimes all it takes to become an object of derision is being very into school and striving to get great/the best grades and/or “talking white.”
“However, in my experience and in those of other black people I have spoken to, sometimes all it takes to become an object of derision is being very into school and striving to get great/the best grades and/or “talking white.”
again, i never disagreed with this. all i’m trying to say is that it’s not the pandemic and strangling barrier it’s been made out to be
True, it does happen, but usually those doing the teasing are secretly insecure and envious of the smart kid. When I was a child (long long long) time ago, there were those who teased but it was mostly that they called me the good girl or the teachers pet or implied that “I” thought I was better than them. The acting white comment would send me over the edge though…I hated that. The funny thing is that the neighborhood thug had a crush on me (I think he was about 5 years older) and would wait outside the school & demand to see my grade report as if he had some authority to punish me if I had bad grades…strange but true.
I think the meme has a bit of truth in it. I’ve heard of cases where parents don’t want their kids to do better than them, but those are exceptions and not rules. When I was younger, I was called an oreo by some sad little girls because I spoke “weird”(ie “white”) They didn’t dissuade me from being
myself though. I just thought they were silly and bored…it depends on who is trying to influence the said smart black kid and who their examples are.
“I think the meme has a bit of truth in it. I’ve heard of cases where parents don’t want their kids to do better than them, but those are exceptions and not rules. When I was younger, I was called an oreo by some sad little girls because I spoke “weird”(ie “white”) They didn’t dissuade me from being
myself though. I just thought they were silly and bored”
yeah, you’re comment mirrors what i’m trying to say. its not that this doesn’t happen, its just that it happens much less often (and isn’t as effective in “deterring smartness”) than people seem to believe.
“yeah, you’re comment mirrors what i’m trying to say. its not that this doesn’t happen, its just that it happens much less often (and isn’t as effective in “deterring smartness”) than people seem to believe.”
How much less, though, I’m wondering.
Because there are too may people who say “Ditto! I can relate!” when the topic of “I get picked on sometimes because I ain’t Black enough” comes up.
*typo alert: ‘may’, should be “many”
“Because there are too many people who say “Ditto! I can relate!” when the topic of “I get picked on sometimes because I ain’t Black enough” comes up.”
i think this is similar to the woman who s mays that she doesnt get approached because she’s intimidating. sure, some men are intimidated by certain types of people, but most of the time there are many other (more prevalent) factors that lead to her not getting hollered at
“i think this is similar to the woman who s mays that she doesnt get approached because she’s intimidating. sure, some men are intimidated by certain types of people, but most of the time there are many other (more prevalent) factors that lead to her not getting hollered at”
Hmm, interesting and good point. But, what about the people who blatantly pick on folks for “talking white?” I mean, how else would folks know they’re being picked on because of it unless they directly insult them in that manner? I think it’s different than just assuming you’re intimating because it’s not like there are tall niccas passing notes to women that say, “I woulda approached you, but you scare me.” In terms of being picked on, folks usually let you know WHY you’re being teased.
As Cheekie pointed out…you usually know you’re being taunted because of talking white because, at the very least, the teasers will mimic you in a super exagerrated white accent.
But I agree with the basic point. Its not that crucial. What’s interesting is that the only time this really ever happened to me was at a majority (white) school from blacks who likely grew up around sufficient numbers of white folks. I guess they needed to reinforce their own blackness by sonning others not black enough for their tastes. But in all black environments, nobody cared.
“yeah, you’re comment mirrors what i’m trying to say. its not that this doesn’t happen, its just that it happens much less often (and isn’t as effective in “deterring smartness”) than people seem to believe.”
How much less, though, I’m wondering.
Because there are too may people who say “Ditto! I can relate!” when the topic of “I get picked on sometimes because I ain’t Black enough” comes up.
I used to pronounce chitlins with all three syllables emphasising the s on the end… chitterlings.
But I ain’t never been ashamed to say that I eat them in mixed company.
I wore glasses I didn’t need because I wanted the hood to know I was smart… and sold weed to maintain a balance.
When they said I acted white… I would say naw just arrogant… and they would laugh not kick my a**.
I wanted street cred without the hood’s baggage, and access to white privilege… but I always wanted to be black.
That’s the American dream ain’t it.
I think black folks cross the line focusing on what they don’t want to be instead of celebrating who they are… they think its better to be somebody else. Tiger Woods. ~JS
Maybe it’s not a pandemic because being Black and a high achiever isn’t a pandemic in itself, which is another issue altogether. All I know is that when I went off to my Ivy League school, it was after being teased mercilessly for being an OREO (Black on the outside, White on the inside), and I was welcomed by my Black Ivy peers who almost ALL had the same experience. Wherever they were, they were getting teased for being high achievers, unless they happened to also be a star athlete or come from a predominantly Black setting or something.
I do agree, however, that there’s a difference between what some would call “acting White” (a term I vehemently disagree with) and actually being eager to “Whitewash” yourself. I met a few of those people in school as well. I had a few THOUSAND strikes against my “Blackness” (and still do), but if someone tried to say I was one of the “safe ones”, they’d see just how militant I really was about being Black.
Why in the world do you think that somebody called you an oreo for being a high achiever? How did you make this connection? It is very unclear.
Because they used the derogatory terms in circumstances that they deemed made me less Black.
Examples:
1.) When I had an operatic solo in Handel’s “Christmas Oratorio”
2.) When I decided to play oboe instead of saxophone or clarinet
3.) When they found out I lived in a predominantly White neighborhood
And Champ’s example of being made fun of for using correct grammar rings true for me as well. They didn’t call me (or others) a “nerd” or a “dork” or a “geek”. They used the racially-charged term “OREO” for a reason.
I just made a long-@$$ post about codeswitching…I won’t be redundant, but I think it probably applies to you, too.
Also, why do you think someone would call you an oreo but not someone Black you might look up to as a child interested in opera, like Jessye Norman or Kathleen Battle? Why do you think Black children are taught to admire these women, but would choose to belittle you?
And what does choosing the oboe over the sax or your place of residence have to do with high achievement? That just doesn’t make any sense.
I can’t speak for why some people are praised for choosing non-traditional routes and others or discouraged from taking them.
Choosing the oboe over the other instruments I mentioned wasn’t so much an example of being high-achieving as it was an example of being picked on for “acting White”, as apparently oboe was a “White” instrument to the Black (and WHITE) students I went to school with, just like opera was a “White” musical genre. I don’t personally subscribe to such limiting definitions of Black identity, but I’m not naive enough to pretend others don’t and I have proof that many do.
And you can choose not to see how my experiences were examples of the topic if you like. It makes no difference to me. I was merely putting in my two cents and not attempting to provoke any hostility.
I’m not “choosing” anything. They just aren’t relevant, and I’m pointing this out because your eagerness to frame those experiences as relevant an example of how the myth is perpetuated.
My examples of how the myth isn’t, in fact, a myth, aren’t relevant? Ok. I disagree, but I’ve stated my position here and below and apparently we’ve reached a block.
Sweetheart, you seem not to get it.
The distinctions being made by myself and the other commentators are not arbitrary. The Champ is seeking to address a particular myth that white people have grabbed onto and built monuments around: that Black children associate intelligence with acting white. You are conflating the fiction of that particular myth with the reality of your personal experience.
Speaking of high-achieving Ivies – this reminds me of the whole 2008 Presidential race. People talking about Obama going to Harvard like it was an insult. Is he supposed to run for president with a paralegal degree from Everest College?
Not all black children believe demonstrating intelligence is “acting white”.
But the fact that many do…. is NOT A MYTH.
No offense, but some of you are about as naive, pompous, underexposed and willfully ignorant as the “white media” who you’re criticizing.
Lol…one lady here, Jen, is trying to teach KitKatKutie84 about ‘reframing’ by reframing KitKat’s child hood experience for her.
Jen, you sound like the white man, whose never experienced a day of racism or bigotry in his life telling a black man something to the effect of….
“Why would that police officer pull you over just because you’re black? That doesn’t make any sense. Are you sure you are not misinterpreting or reframing that officer’s action. Maybe you were swerving or looking suspicious with that baseball cap and that’s why he pulled you over? Maybe you’re just sensitive.”
Jen, may I suggest that in your eagerness to grand stand & jock-ride at another Sister’s expense you are conflating the fact of her personal experience with the fiction of your own narrow and subjective perspective.
We can sit up here, being cute, acting smart and trying to impress each other all we want.
But the unfortunate and regrettable reality is that there are entire Black communities, who in 2010, muddled in damn near slave ignorance and kids who grow up getting ridiculed by their peers for “acting white” from simply going to school on a regular basis, doing any homework, halfway listening to the teacher and speaking with even a hint of standard diction.
(I’m not going to even get into the drugs, violence and sex part)
Yeah the White controlled media does erect a monument of monolithic Black Ignorance when it suits there purpose, usually to consolidate a fragmented political sector, either conservative or liberal or to profit off the same community who they ridicule.
But if it really bothers you then do something about it.
Putting your head in the sand and making up myths about myths doesn’t make a real problem go away.
Yes there are many blessed Black children who grow up in intellectually nourishing Black communities or who grow up in an intellectual/cultural Oasis relative to their surroundings.
But just cuz you’re in an Oasis don’t mean the Desert ain’t out there.
And the chain is as strong as it’s weakest link.
There are many Black People who aren’t so lucky and aren’t on the “Very Smart Brotha” comment section to debate with some of you better educated, MORE SHELTERED Brothers and Sisters. (Don’t assume everybody gets what you got.)
Whether than worrying about what the White Media is saying about Black people or telling others they didn’t experience what they experienced(Jen, ever thought about taking up Rape Counseling?) you should channel your indignation into doing everything you can to encourage Black Scholarship and intellectualism in the places that need it the most.
-J
J-Mogul–or fool–whichever you prefer to be called:
CAN YOU READ??
This girl has said that Black children made fun of her for being high-achieving BECAUSE SHE LIVED IN A WHITE NEIGHBORHOOD AND PLAYED THE F*CKING OBOE.
This doesn’t make sense in any context. I am not “reframing” her experiences–she is reframing her experiences. Living in a white neighborhood and playing the oboe are not markers of high achievement. So, if somebody tells you that you are “acting white” because you live in white neighborhood and play the oboe, they are not telling you that you are “acting white” because you are a high achiever.
As a kid with non-traditional interests and a race-neutral accent, I was told on more than one occasion that I “spoke like a white girl” or was doing “white people sh!t” or other such foolishness. But never–ever–did anybody Black ever mock me for being intelligent OR for being successful at what I did. I have never experienced it. So I didn’t bring up these experiences. Why? Because they are about as relevant to the topic as being told you were acting white for playing the oboe is. IF YOU HAVE PURPLE HAIR OR PLAY THE GUITAR OR SPEAK “THE QUEEN’S ENGLISH” OR DRESS LIKE A PREP GROWING UP, LITTLE BLACK KIDS ARE GONNA TELL YOU YOU’RE ACTING WHITE. But once again, THIS IS IRRELEVANT BECAUSE IT HAS NOTHING TO DO WITH BEING HIGH-ACHIEVING.
Also, while you are trying to be snarky, you seemed to have missed the fact that multiple people have described Black children in white-dominated environments, who are taught that every pathology under the sun is Black. THIS is where this intelligence = acting white foolishness DOES come into play. It is a feature of Black children’s dumbass parents thinking that they have done their children a service by sending them to the wolves to be educated.
So why are Barack Obama, Bill Cosby and other such out-of-touch folks all on the television telling God and everybody that this is something coming out of our community? It isn’t. THIS is my point. The Black community has enough problems. Thinking that intelligence is a marker of whiteness is NOT one of them. While you are running around trying to embrace this bullsh!t, you need to be trying to discredit it so that when you stick your unfortunate kids in a school wherein s/he will be “one of two” the other one won’t be telling her she “ain’t Black” because she doesn’t push crack like Jeezy-from-the-BET claims he does.
Also, move around telling me what to do with my life. I spend most days of my life working with Black children from underprivileged backgrounds in some educational or social services related capacity. I enjoy what I do, and I am great at it. I’d wager any day of the week that I am more familiar with the challenges of educating Black children than you are, so GTFO with this “you are sheltered and naive” malarkey.
Finally, FOOL, next time you open your mouth to compare childhood teasing to being raped, I hope it is because Bubba and Big T are pushing up on you in a prison shower. It’s not analogous and it’s not funny, and you do nothing but take away from your unfounded points when you draw such comparisons. But perhaps you need to be kicked in the @$$ by a mule to know it’s gonna hurt.
Jen,
You seem stuck on the oboe and white neighborhood thing, which I explained further that those examples were not markers of high achievement, but of “acting white”. And if you scroll down further to where I said it more articulately, you would see that I think the term “acting white” refers to WAY more than just high achievement. The examples I gave from my personal experiences were things OTHER THAN high achievement that some people think are indications of non-Blackness or Whiteness. My apologies for the confusion, although I do think I attempted to clear my true intent up, despite your rudeness.
Again, I don’t see why my commenting on this issue caused such hostility, but it won’t stop me from commenting in the future. I won’t, however, engage with you if you decide to become unnecessarily argumentative with me in the future.
Okay some of us are speaking from a point of being a black child growing up and being educated in a majority white situation or a more affluent majority black situation.
From that point you might hear somebody say something to the effect of “Yo…when I was a kid I got my a$$ kicked and called white just because I did my home work or took my books home from school ” and you’re thinking “where they do that at…they weren’t beatin you up cuz you did your homework. They’res a difference between being an achiever and being a nerd….you must have been a nerd or didn’t know how to ‘codeswitch’. You’re perpetuating the myth of black kids associating academics and intellect with acting white.”
Now you had your own problems dealing with covert racists, condescending, patronizing teachers and classmates, so I don’t want to trivialize your experience.
However some of us grew up around a bunch of ignorant mofos who were not at all impressed or tolerant with basic sh!t like….reading, doing homework, listening to teachers and one of the blanket terms that covered all those non-conformations was “you’re acting white” and anybody who tries to argue and reframe this obviously grew up in a different world(reaching back an adult doesn’t count) now matter how they try to present themselves on an Internet comment forum.
All I’m sayin is try not to interpret another person’s experience through, your frame of reference .
Ms. Jen….I can read when a person twist and misinterprets another person’s words, out of context, to make a self serving point.
You know Jen, most of us are old enough to know that know people resort to name calling when they feel they’ve lost control.
You’re not gonna hurt my feeling but you are hurting your own credibility.
Okay I may have been a little “snarky” with you…but from the way you were snappin on KitKat, I figured you could handle it.
Real Talk…Brothers and Sisters bickering and feuding with each other over ego, dogma and identity issues, be it in the streets(Gangbanging), the bush (Tribalism), the bedroom, the office or the courtroom (ex: SCLC) is the #1 reason why Black as a global group are (some of you are in denial) socio-economically behind (I’m not talkin about havin a Masters degree and a Benz I’m talkin about industrial capital assets & jacked up families).
If you’re ‘Black’ , whether you are light skinned, dark skinned, bougie, hood, ivey league, community college, African American, American African, African Caribbean, African South American, African Asian (they got those too) , male or female, you have to survive and try and make a better life for your family in a world that judges and forms opinions about you based on your skin color, before you can open your mouth and let out whatever patois, ebonics, queens english, pidgin english, french, spanish, yoruba, swahili or kung! you speak.
The “Black Experience” is any Experience a Black Man or Woman happens to be in.
(Thats the real “myth about acting white”)
Black people need to learn to get past all that other sh!t and get our sh!t together.
Jen, I hope you find peace Sister and that things are as good in your life as you say they are cuz the way you’ve been carrying on, in the VSB comment section, one would not get that impression.
You sound like a smart woman, but I still believe you are too deep in your ego (not the positive, self confident Kanye West Ego, but the defensive, insecure, inadequate, over-compensating one) to really hear what people are trying to tell you about their own personal experiences and this robs you of a greater wisdom.
I’m out.
-J
J-Mogul – I attended a Black private school. I had one–count her–ONE friend in elementary school who came from a single-parent household. Her parents were recently divorced. This was an “affluent majority Black situation.”
My parents sent me to relatives in the projects AND summer camp during school holidays to ensure that I never turned into an ignorant out-of-touch fool. My professional and volunteer experiences are in all sorts of schools, but primarily Black poor to lower middle class public schools. I can safely say that, whether you are in a poor to lower middle middle class Black environment or a middle middle to upper middle class Black environment, you will NOT hear about Black kids making fun of other Black kids because they are intelligent and high achieving. I know “where they do that at,” and it is in the suburbs. This is why my children will never ever EVER attend a majority white elementary school. Also, as this is an issue that arises in white-dominated environments that is perpetuated by white people, shouldn’t we be addressing these “acting white” lectures to THEM rather than the community that knows the meme is a lie??
My point to this KitKat person was that even if she was a part of one of these environments, wherein Black kids are taught that their intelligence compromises their Blackness, she had YET to describe a situation wherein she was told she was “acting white” because she was high-achieving. I’m not sure why this continues to allude you two. If I am being nasty in the comments section of VSB, it is for a reason. I have dedicated my life to seeing Black children educated and achieve social and emotional stability, and it p!sses me off when people try to heap more on them than what already exists. (Also, I really really *really* hate coons, and detracting from the stability of little Black children strikes me as being ultra coonish.)
Finally, I understand that some may resort to name-calling when they feel they’ve lost control. However, I am not above argumentum ad hominem in real life or on the internet, so I name-call whenever the hell I feel like it–and exponentially when h0es need to sit down. So, have a seat and put your cape away, PLEASE….because at this point it is clear that, as far as this topic is concerned, there is no real convergence between my points and your perspective.
Think about this logically, J. If you’re off-putting and offending me with every word you type, why exactly should I treat you with kid gloves?
That was a rhetorical question.
Don’t waste your time responding to it. On the internet, you are your ideas, and if your ideas are wack and backward, I’m not going to be your little iFriend or e-pal. Period.
The neighborhood DBoys did not allow me to buy weed within the boundaries of my neighborhood, though they often smoked with their kid brothers. This coupled with my laziness ensured that I never developed a weed habit. I did get jokes cracked on me because of my lack of accent, but I had jokes and could play football so I was accepted by everyone.
“but I had jokes and could play football so I was accepted by everyone.”
(signing Dash’s yearbook) You’re funny and remarkably intelligent…for a jock. XOXO Mrs. Dr. Evil
You’re funny and remarkably intelligent…for a jock. XOXO Mrs. Dr. Evil
*signing along Mrs. Dr. Evil* I would have never picked you for a jock either… *cue stereotype city*
I probably do not come off as a pure jock because I am have always been a beatnik-jock hybrid.
beatnik-jock hybrid
I definitely picked up on the beatnik.
Long time reader, first time commenter (so not a word) but I’ve followed the race to be first to comment, which is quite hilarious might I add, so I figured I’d give it a shot and see where I fall…be back with more to say after I finish reading…
welcome and sh*t, margo
#2 pretty much sums it up for me. I was the nerd in high school that always messed up the curve (you’re welcome) and I was hardly made fun of because I was smart. Now, people made fun of me because of my height, dark skin color, skinny build, timidness, slightly awkward speech pattern in front of attractive females, and inability to recite most popular rap lyrics, but usually not only because I was smart. Besides, they needed to make sure I’d let them cheat off me.
“Now, people made fun of me because of my height, dark skin color, skinny build, timidness, slightly awkward speech pattern in front of attractive females, and inability to recite most popular rap lyrics, but usually not only because I was smart”
i get the feeling the the majority of the people who feel like they were picked on just for being smart probably could say something similar if they actually didnt just accept the “they hate me because of my a’s” meme
I used to love telling the morons who wanted to cheat off of my knowledge to “f*ck off” because I felt they should have been making efforts all along to learn on their own (though I wouldn’t mind helping in the early going)…once the exam starts, your *ss is out on Pluto as far as I’m concerned.
well written and absolutely true. Blk ppl have a very high regard for education, the outcasts are usually clowned. i went through it a few times myself, but i was also the new kid in school.
“Blk ppl have a very high regard for education”
lol, i wouldn’t go that far. i think we’re generally too apathetic in regards to education
Interesting you mention that particular point……Bill Cosby spoke about some of the ills that exist in the Black community recently (I belive at the 2010 Essence awards) and one of his MAIN points revolved around the issue of apathy and how it is truly doing the most damage to the Black community.
Boy, I hope someone didn’t mention that already in the threads…..
I’ve seen this meme on the ninjanets before. And as a smart, nerdy, and not very socially awkward child/adolescent, I know from personal experience that some black folks/kids will come at you for getting very good grades and speaking “proper” English. Now, I don’t think it happens to all smart, nerdy black children, but it does happen. I still haven’t figured out if denying that this happens is a way to defend the race. But I know what my experience was growing up. And I’ve talked to black peers who had similar experiences.
Actually, one of my friends from high school (a public residential high school for the nerdy and possibly socially awkward) teaches chemistry at a high school in the Bronx. He is a black male. His students were flabbergasted when they found out he 1) did not have any children out of wedlock and 2) had never been to prison. I think this happened a couple of years ago. So, um, yeah, not too sure about this one.
@TMA
I agree with you. I think the level of teasing/comments is going to mainly come from the area you are in. I obviously think for most kids who are beat up its not JUST because they were smart but I do think alot of kids get teased for “acting/speaking white.”
Once you leave past elementary school your often separated in classes according to skill level(grade level, advanced, honors) and here you can see a big divide where a high achieving blacks can almost finish high school without having to interfere with hardly any other black kids. I think alot of young people have insecurities and kids want to feel accepted by their community and being labeled as white may only play further into their insecurities. Are they likely to get beat up for this? Prolly not. Does this make them want to just holla at Becky whose accesible and doenst tease him for using the kings English instead of Talking to Tenisha? Maybe. lolvery low wage.
“Does this make them want to just holla at Becky whose accesible and doenst tease him for using the kings English instead of Talking to Tenisha?”
as a smart (questionably) nerdy, high achieving black woman named Tanisha, i take offense to that! lmao!
TMA, I agree with you. I like your point here: “I still haven’t figured out if denying that this happens is a way to defend the race.”
I was picked on as a youth partly because I made good grades, dressed well, and by the time I got to high school (a academic, magnet high school where everyone was smart) I was popular with the ladies. But, when I was picked on I wasn’t going to magnet schools but regular public schools and I think that makes a difference. While I was encouraged by the older, neighborhood thugs to continue to achieve academically most of my peers weren’t so accepting of me.
So, I think environment and the changing ethos of the thug element is key here. Back in the day, the thugs encouraged the neighborhood who had either some academic or athletic aptitude to continue to develop their talents. Nowadays, I don’t think the thuggish element in our Black communities are so accepting of especially academic talent.
@Kamala:
So, I think environment and the changing ethos of the thug element is key here. Back in the day, the thugs encouraged the neighborhood who had either some academic or athletic aptitude to continue to develop their talents. Nowadays, I don’t think the thuggish element in our Black communities are so accepting of especially academic talent.</em?
I think this is true. While I grew up in a small, southern town (not too much of a thuggish element, and the bit that was present, I was very far from), I do think there has been a cultural shift in the black community…even since I was growing up and I'm 35. It's like the bridge that tied pre-integration values (that's what I think of them, anyway) to modern, post-segregation black community is being burned, bit by bit. This also reminds me of a conversation between Bunk and Omar (season 2 or 3 of The Wire, can't remember exactly which one right now). Anywho, Bunk was castigating Omar for bringing the dope boy game around little kids. He told Omar that when he was a young Bunk, the gangsters/dealers/block boys would tell him, "Go home schoolboy. You don't be long here." Hmmmph.
“I was picked on as a youth partly because I made good grades, dressed well, and by the time I got to high school (a academic, magnet high school where everyone was smart) I was popular with the ladies. But, when I was picked on I wasn’t going to magnet schools but regular public schools and I think that makes a difference.”
actually, most of the data about this phenomenon shows that the “acting white” jabs are more likely to occur at integrated schools than predominately black ones.
its complicated and sh*t.
@Champ: I have also read research that supports this. Perhaps that’s what happened in my case. I didn’t go to a school that was not majority white until I went to college. I also wonder if this varies depending on the region of the country (which may be related to the number of majority black or non-white schools in an area).
you were also at a magnet school where I am assuming everyone else was intelligent/talented and the other black kids who may have been there prolly acted/spoke the same way.
“actually, most of the data about this phenomenon shows that the “acting white” jabs are more likely to occur at integrated schools than predominately black ones.”
It may be because they have visual evidence as to who the kid is allegedly hanging out with to even “act white”. I’m probably reaching like Michael Jordan’s arm in the 90s. Ah well…
i could see that. from first to seventh grade i went to a predominantly black private school…you never heard any of that “talking/acting white” crap there! now when i got home to the neighborhood, where most of the other kids went to public school….very different story.
although, i will say, i didnt get that comment too often….it really wasnt something i was picked on about too much. it would just come up during the course of someone already being pissed at me. usually, i would be the idea person for figuring out how to do bad sh*t and not get into trouble!
“I still haven’t figured out if denying that this happens is a way to defend the race”
i never denied that it doesn’t happen. i’m just saying that it doesn’t happen nearly as often as many people think. basically, its the same argument that can be made for bm/wf marriages.
I think it’s a combination of two things: jealousy, and the brainwashing by the ‘Man’. Yes I said it.
The MaN.
Anyway, it seems pretty obvious to state but yeah, lets make the negros think getting educated is not cool, so we can continue to keep them in their socio-economic class.
Your welcome, to all those who ever made black children feel books=bad.
I take the author’s point that it is also not cool in other races, BUT and this is a big BUT. I would argue the consequences are a gazillion times more severe to the black community
I have a friend who is fairly intelligent and actually works as a mortgage broker. I introduced this friend to one of my half sisters (my dad’s kid…raised in a different environment) who wanted information on the home purchasing process and she called me later described him as being “gay”…now I’d heard the acting white thing before, but how can you determine sexual orientation from a business related telephone call? I explained her that he definitely was not gay and that he is just using proper grammar…so strange.
Great post. I can also identify w/ #2…I was widely known as the smart guy in school – near 4.0 gpa, 1320 SAT – but I can’t recall even one time since kindergarten that I was picked on b/c of it. It actually made me more popular and yeah – I agree w/ the brotha b4 me about the cheating off my paper part, LOL.
welcome and sh*t. and, i’m beginning to think that (like 1000 other topics) the vsb’s generally have had a much different experience than the vss’s.
yes.
Well…..with scores like a 1320 on the SAT and a near perfect GPA, those were indicators to us Black women that you, sir, were “about something”! (Yep, I said it.)
I think there are varying degrees of being teased for “acting white”. Yes there are the few and far between that are teased for being high achieving african americans and I do believe that there are those who are just nerds…..and teased accordingly. But where I think these false “truths” come from are those children who are high achievers who soon realize that they are high achievers compared to some of their peers and begin to treat their peers less than they should based on academic performance. After all we are talking about children and varying degrees of maturity. I believe that the teasing of “acting white” is an attempt in SOME cases to bring the high achieving peer back down to earth for an ego check. This “over-analysis” that I am doing is a long-winded way to say that I think the teasing falls somewhere is the middle.
Let us also not forget the external influences that causes some of these ego trips….teachers, parents etc. Soon enough the ego trips come to an end for most and the rest of them turn into the ones that you referred to as those “doing their absolute best to rid themselves of any trace of black culture”
…..I’m out
The Chef
I agree. The only “smart” kids that got negative reactions were the a$$holes. Nobody likes a snob or show off. And this is coming from an overachiever that never got teased because I was humble and friendly. We all know somebody that forces their IQ down our throats. You’d be hard pressed to find a kid (or an adult) that can stand a jerk, no matter how “smart” they are.
“I believe that the teasing of “acting white” is an attempt in SOME cases to bring the high achieving peer back down to earth for an ego check”
hmmmm. good point. although, admittedly, one could say that this is a perfect example of crab in a barrel thinking
agreed…..
Has anyone read Tom Burrell’s Brainwashed?
“Once we’re rid of the idea that we ar ‘less than’, we can begin to empower our children. We no longer tolerate friends, family members, or our children’s peers who ridicule or put them down because the excel academically. We can celebrate our children’s attempts to go beyond academic mediocrity and persuade them that they can aim for goals worthy of anybody.”
#2. smart kids don’t get picked on just because they’re smart, but…
…nerdy kids do.
*For some reason this made me think of a gay guy who was attacked while wearing a sailor suit. I was thinking – was this really a hate crime, or is wearing a sailor suit an open invitation to getting your ass beat? I really don’t think that has to do with being gay
#3 – Lemme testiFAH! A childhood friend’s parents are Nigerian, and all 3 American-born kids have Nigerian names. Her brother changed his full name to an Anglo one, joined a White fraternity, and will have nothing to to with black people at all. He’s the only boy (and oldest child) so his parents invested everything they had in him and his education. And that’s how he played them. Fail.
alot of africans dont want anything to do with black americans. lol
We have a pretty terrible rep internationally.
I disagree. Am half kenyan Half African American and where I grew up we all got along pretty well.
Over Christmas I specifically asked a Nigerian (who lives in DC and is dating my AA cousin, mind you) about how his African friends feel about AA’s and he proceeded to call out Jamaicans as the ones Nigerians HATE. I was like “huh”. Maybe he was just saying this to be pleasant to my family but I asked him several times to ‘keep it real’ and tell me what his folk really talk about.
lol I have dated Africans and know there families made negative remarks about African Americans. Obviously all do not and clearly Anita is mixed so I would hope her family was accepting of it at least by the time she was born. However, I still say there is a great amount of Africans who do not like to be grouped together with all black people or dare to be considered an African-American.
Great points @TheTalentedMs.Fiasco
Generally speaking, when it comes to Black Americans, don’t nobody like us but us.
Thank the white man!
And, then, foreign-born blacks wonder why Black Americans feel oppressed and othered. White people taught our own ethnic “cousins” to hate us–their greatest allies–before they even stepped foot into this country. I guess it’s just a marker of ethnic progress (for everybody but Black Americans) that immigrant blacks and their children now have the privilege of continuing to other us well into the second generation.
But keep in mind, that position is only tenuous in certain parts of the country (e.g., Florida or New York). Your black @$$ can try your hand at equal opportunity America in Texas or Arizona or Georgia or somewhere if you want. And you’ll end up more militant than we are.
I call 100% BS on this: “White people taught our own ethnic “cousins” to hate us–their greatest allies–before they even stepped foot into this country.” Make that 200%
I’m West Indian and I think this is the biggest cop out statement of the year. That statement alone is one of reasons why AA and Blacks of other cultures may not see eye to eye – it’s always “someone else” to blame. That kind of mentality prevents growth.
People are gonna be mad at me for saying that but ask most “other” blacks and they are likely to cosign.
Another obvious reason on why we may not draw a whole lot of parallels besides blackness is that out cultures are vastly different (music, food and way of living). That to me is the main reason.
Please. I dated a West Indian man for yeeeeaaaars, and multiple West Indians have married into my family, so I know.
We’re lazy, stupid, don’t value education, have a victim mentality, etc. (to hear so many West Indians speak on the subject). You just demonstrated that attitude toward Black people in your response to me.
Do you think it is a coincidence that these are the same myths about Black people that whites seek to perpetuate? Do you really? If so, you are incredibly naive. But that’s okay, because academics have already established that, chances are, your kids will think the exact same way that I do, and your grandchildren most certainly will.
So much for that distinct way of life you guys have.
For Jen (below) because for whatever reason I can’t reply to her reply ::shrugs::
My attitude towards Black people?! lol…I am black.
I am well aware of the “myths” but I damn well for sure don’t let them get in the way of how I live my life. People will think what they think. Prove them wrong…matter of fact – Want better. Do better. Be better.
Your ethnicity is West Indian. Mine is Black. We are both part of the black race. You have negative attitudes toward Black people–as in people who share my ethnicity.
Also…question.
If I am not to blame white people for white attitudes toward Black people in this country, who else am I to blame? People who lack an appropriate internalization of American history truly come off strangely to the folks who have.
Sometimes blame is totally warranted: not an additional stumbling block, but the acknowledgment that one exists. Perhaps black immigrants would actually experience multigenerational class ascension if they were willing to open their eyes and appropriately assign blame.
@ Jen, I have to cosign on this, except we don’t even like us either.
@Kemz, you’re West Indian, which is not the same as being born and raised in America as a black person culturally. Perhaps, this is why you stereotyped your Black American brothers and sisters in implying that we play the “blame game.”
Until black people from your area directly fight against over 400 years of slavery, lynchings, racially oppressive policies that have made things easier for you and other black immigrants in America, your obliviousness of the effects of racial oppression will always strike a nerve with some black americans.
I’m sorry but it really pisses me off when some foreign-born black people don’t study up on why black americans are so mad, and how the system does keep some blacks down. Heck, I’m tutoring black kids that don’t get textbooks, and then ppl wonder why they don’t do well in school. C’mon son.
Reducing the problem to laziness or “whining” overlooks the fact that the problem exists. All black people need to get united on the same page, and then some of this crap wouldn’t be an issue.
tenable not tenuous. Ugh.
The Nigerian boy makes me think of A LOT of my African friends who have done the same thing. Honestly, African parents or grandparents can be slightly racist against…well damn every minority. One of my friends in high school was so white-washed it was hard for my African friends to relate to her. Her parents were well off, so she tried her very best to fit in with the white kids and even claimed them as best friends. The thing is, they didn’t accept her as one of them and now she is just obsessed with a group of people that will never truly accept her.
Coming from an African family, I went through a phase where I didn’t feel myself fitting into African American culture. My grandmother looked down on African Americans because she believed Afro-Americans never moved passed their slave mentality and act as though they are still enslaved. She had her reasons for thinking this and being raised in this enviornment shaped my view of African Americans in my youth and being friends with Africans who grew up in the same enviornment didn’t really help. As I grew older I realized that I relate more to my fellow blacks and white young people where I lived were privileged and really were out of touch when it came to race relations.
Anyway to summerize my rant, I think a lot of times Africans being slightly disconnected from American black culture, decided to go to the extreme and “act white” because they feel they fit in better there. Little do they know, white people think you are silly as fuck for changing your name and “acting white” because in the end of the day, you are not white. The friend I was talking about early gets made fun of by white people because of her “whiteness” and she doesn’t even know it.
kudos on the rant
To further the whole Black on Black violence thing, it stems from this inherent (yet never really mentioned or admitted) belief of purity or as Nas would say “Thoroughbred”. Sometimes we Africans feel we are true blacks, undiluted by the Western ways of America and still ambilicaly tapped into the motherland. It stems from some folks viewing Africans as less civilised or less acostomed to ways of the 20th century, and these (often) isolated incidences have fueled that ever raging fire.
My guess is some folks feel they have a point to prove, so they try to be the most “progressive” mothereffer out there and so they adopt the “I went to Harvard” approach.
It’s sad really, but it happens.
“*For some reason this made me think of a gay guy who was attacked while wearing a sailor suit. I was thinking – was this really a hate crime, or is wearing a sailor suit an open invitation to getting your ass beat? I really don’t think that has to do with being gay”
lol, this reminds me of a topic in dov davidoff’s comedy central special, which i’m not going to repeat because i know it won’t translate well.
“doing your absolute best to rid yourself of any trace of black culture”
Tiger, Tiger Woods y’all. Chris Rock.
i was going to include a pic of him but i figured he’s been picked on enough this year
“Tiger, Tiger Woods y’all. Chris Rock.”
You know everytime I see ol’ boy I sing this. Dayum you Chris Rock!!!
I was told I act white, but was picked on for having a big forehead and not wearing the right kind of sneakers. That was in middle and elementary school, in High School, I was picked on for having a big forehead and knowing too many obscure facts. Being black and smart does not get you picked on, my good friend is extremely smart and now goes to a top 10 school and was one of the popular kids.
Being awkward, slightly weird, or having a big forehead gets you picked on in school. I remember high school, to be popular you had to be either rich, attractive, or easy and then there were the exceptions for extremely talented or smart people, but overall you had to have a good personality and be fun to be around.
what if you were rich and easy but had a big forehead? would you get picked on then?
That would cancel out my forehead, but people will always have that come up. Like being ugly is the worst thing that can happen to you in High School.
The way you mentioned your “big forehead” made me lol.
Maybe it’s because i’ve been out with more than a few North/East African women and I very occasionally tease them about their foreheads.
My Experience: I started reading at 3 years-old, and continued to read everything I could get my hands on. Entered a school system with a 95% African-American population. Punished for reading Romeo & Juliet in the 3rd grade (not an appropriate book for silent reading time). Picked on, not for being smart, but because I used words that the other kids didn’t know, dressed myself in as many colors as possible everyday, and teachers loved me. Stopped getting picked on when they realized I was funny, could run fast, and do a spot-on imitation of Michael Jackson singing “Human Nature”.
I feel like I was picked on for being different the way ALL kids are picked on for being different. But I also know that me being seen as “different” had to do with me being open to experiences that my peers (and their parents) had already deemed things only white people do.
But dammit I just LOVE camping.
@AC Ford
In reference to you being “different” alot of smart kids who are performing well are “different” and I think that is what leads them to being a target. Alot I think relates to their family and its values which may lead kids to wear Reeboks vs Nikes…
I dont think any black kids are going to be committing the next Columbine as a result of being teased for their intelligence or for why they know the release date of the next Green Day album but not when the new Jordan’s come out.
Ha! I hope not. To be honest, the only time anybody threatened to shoot up our school or had a hit-list or something, it was one of 3 white boys that went there.
Love your analysis. I believe it’s spot on!
It’s weird reading this blog after Byron Crawford.
please expound. welcome and sh*t, btw
Unfortunately, this meme is *very* true. I spent the first half of my childhood in Miami, which was very culturally diverse, and was ingrained with a strong belief in the power of education as well as a pride in my own culture, individually and generally. So, while my Blackness/West-Indian-ess was very much a part of me/my life, among my peers (themselves, a broad swath across the melting pot) color wasn’t really an issue. We were more into ice cream and tree-houses.
Also, to be clear, there is no part of me that ever has yearned for the privilege of Whiteness. I *always* saw it for the reality/illusion that it was, thanks to my parents, thanks to the books, TV, and various other tidbits of American culture I ingested. (I was fascinated by how rich they all seemed to be though)
When I moved to the deep South (Decatur, GA), to a neighborhood that was 99.9% African-American, the entire foundation of my individuality was turned on its ear and called into question: the way I talked (too proper, too White); the way I looked (too dark, too Black); the way I dressed (too poor, too lame). I had it rough those first few years…until I learned how to slip on a (dirty) South(ern) vernacular and downplay certain aspects of my…let’s just call it personality. I adjusted so much of myself back then that I think some small part of that instinct resonates with me still…the desire to blend, to seem status quo, to talk “down”. Because back then, talking a certain way did mean that I thought I was better than…at least, that’s how it was perceived. Sadly, even now as an adult, I still get that familiar stare when I’m talking…which is *almost* as bad as “You’re so well-spoken.”
So while I agree with you that children, in general, will always pick on the easy target, it is erroneous and dismissive to assume that the legacy of slavery (and its negative associations with education) left a long shadow across every aspect of African-American life but somehow steered clear of the schoolhouses.
“it is erroneous and dismissive to assume that the legacy of slavery (and its negative associations with education) left a long shadow across every aspect of African-American life but somehow steered clear of the schoolhouses.”
i never suggested that. all i’m saying is that intra-racial negative academic pressure isn’t as prevalent and influential as the media
and many of us would lead you to believe.
also, am i the only one that thinks its funny that decator georgia is considered the deep south even though miami is like 500 miles south of it?
decator georgia is considered the deep south even though miami is like 500 miles south of it?
Different histories… but you knew that already. And yes, it is extremely funny.
I remember raising an eyebrow when friends were referring to Virginia as the south… I was like the South of what??? …
@Sula
“I remember raising an eyebrow when friends were referring to Virginia as the south… I was like the South of what???”
Reading this literally made my eyes twitch! : ) (another angle) While watching the VH-1 Hip Hop honors, and friend and I literally went back and forth over the fact that Virginia was considered a part of the “Dirty South” movement in Hip Hop. I explained to him that VA artists had a different sound altogether that was more “commercial” and not the same as the sound (or culture) of southern rap. His response was that VA is still the south so they are a part by default. So I too become perplexed at the mention of VA being the south. (Sorry to have taken this into left field).
VA is definitely the south…i believe anything that falls under the Mason-Dixon line is considered.
@Jai and OftenConfused,
I forgot to mention that as a foreigner, it was all very strange to me at first… I was just looking at the map and didn’t take into consideration the historical and cultural legacy… That was 9 years ago when I moved to the US…
It’s a lot clearer now, and I do agree that VA is DEFINITELY the south. The mentality is even southerner-er (not a word) than some places in Texas…
@ Sula I’m going to have to ditto @Jai… VA is the southbecause it’s south if the mason Dixon. Sooo if you were black in va during slavery…you wouldve been a slave. This also applies to MD.
Howerever I do agree with @Cnotes. VA is not the”dirty south” but I’d argue that the carolinas aren’t either, but we can all agree they’re southern states. Similarily FL isn’t considered southern even though it’s in the south.
@The Champ
Perhaps. Like stated below, the behavior has been taken out of context by White media, but what hasn’t? It’s kind of like a half-assed way of being racist. Let all the negative characteristics of a culture (and ALL cultures have them) present themselves, magnify them to the nth power, and add water. Viola. Didn’t even have to crack open a book and misrepresent some academic or statistical analysis.
As far as the geography, it’s warranted. Decatur absolutely *defines* country ghetto (in a good way), and even now (in Atlanta) I coexist with people who…well, let’s just say the term Oriental is still being thrown around. I myself didn’t even know there were *different* variations of “White” until I went off to college (it was *that* segregated 15 years ago). And Miami is more South of the border than deep South. Plus there are real beaches there.
“the way I talked (too proper, too White); the way I looked (too dark, too Black); the way I dressed (too poor, too lame)…”
You understand that white people don’t care about your accent, your complexion or your wardrobe, right? The Champ described the “acting white” meme as it has been described and perpetuated in the media. That is, very narrowly: as the myth that indicates “high achieving black children are routinely picked on by other black children just because they’re high achievers.”
Your experience just lacks relevance. The acting white myth is routinely used as a means othering Black Americans as this deeply deficient community of subhumans that hate education, peace, love, charity and apple pie. As it is commonly discussed, it has nothing to do with any superficial aspect of your appearance or demeanor.
Your post also kind of alludes to something that I’ve found that a lot of people who were raised outside of Black culture (isolated from Black Americans and/or in immigrant households) seem to miss. Black people do not tend to raise their eyebrows at an ability to speak proper English. They raise their eyebrows at an INABILITY to codeswitch. It’s the marker of someone who is not a part of our community.
To present this idea more personally: all of my closest Black American friends (with the exception of one) have graduate degrees and work in the professions. Some of us come from multiple generations of university graduates. WE ALL CODESWITCH REGULARLY. Codeswitching is a very important social marker to even upper middle class Black people, and this is something that people who were traumatized for being told they “acted white” as a kid probably should try to understand before they assume they were picked on for being high-achievers.
WE ALL CODESWITCH REGULARLY.
Totally agree with that. I am a non-American black person, and most of my Black American friends DO code switch when necessary… It’s similar to me reverting to talking my type of slang when in the proper environment… If anything, people’s “smartness” should let them know that in certain environments, one has to talk a certain way… It’s Communications 101.
I understand what you mean, but the reason why I think my experience, however anecdotal, is relevant is because I was the exact same girl in Miami (a mixed culture) as I was in Decatur (not so much), and was treated drastically different. Perhaps (read: probably) the behavior *is* taken out of context by White media and turned into something more crude, but you tell me…what about Black culture *isn’t*? Go ahead…I’ll wait. Doesn’t nullify that the behavior exists in the first place. And while I could do nothing about my clothes or complexion, simply changing my enunciation did wonders. I won’t even speak of the effect this had on my younger brother because, quite frankly, there isn’t a blog big enough for that and I am not a Black man.
And believe me, after 20 years of doing it, I am *quite* familiar with code-switching. But I think that term is really just semantics, quite frankly; though perhaps you can enlighten me on the exact meaning of that term, seeing as I am not upper middle class, nor am I a thorough-bred American. (Though I am not the first person in my West-Indian fam to possess an Ivy League degree),
If the topic is grapes, and you tell me your experiences with cherries, then your anecdote is not relevant just because we’re all talking fruit.
And I’m glad that you discovered the social benefits of an ability to codeswitch. As an ivy-leaguer, I am sure you appreciate academic research and recognize that academic discussions on point are widely available for your review online and at your local library.
And “the term is really just semantics”? What academic “term” doesn’t have semantic connotations? What are you TALKING about? Seriously.
If the topic is grapes, and you tell me your experiences with cherries, then your anecdote is not relevant just because we’re all talking fruit.
These grapes are clearly sour, either by me being too closely involved in the topic to speak of it objectively (which, I’ll be the first to say, is always a possibility, but hey-it’s a blog), or by your distaste with my using personal reference rather than a bibliography. Either way, I’m bored with both sides now. Joni Mitchell.
Thanks for the tip on research and libraries. I’ll be sure to keep that in mind.
Super late…
@brownivyx, I agree with all that you stated.
Growing up I was never black enough. pre-k-kg, I looked to white and was teased about that. Your skin is white, black people don’t have eyes that color, why you talk like that and on and on…not in the inquisitive innocent sense, more in a harassing, ugh, kinda way. Then I went to a very diverse parochial school, where I don’t actually recall ever feeling different. The next time I remember being made to feel that I wasn’t black enough, despite the fact that I was definitely black ENOUGH to not be considered white, was in 4th grade. My parents had started their own business, and were struggling financially. Education being of the highest priority, they continued to pay my $13k tuition, and we moved to the hood. I was teased everytime I went outside. They saw me in my kilt and blazer and knew I didn’t go to public school, and once they hear me speak, that was all she wrote. I remembered being cornered numerous times and berated for talking white, acting white, dressing white etc. Why you talk like that? You think you better than us, don’t you? You think you too good, too cute? You aint cute white girl! You sound stupid, and you aint got no body, (lol, i was a late bloomer, but bologna and grits had already given those 10-12 yr olds bodies of grown women). I have been shunned by my ethnic peers on so many grounds that garner me less than black enough through out the years it’s a shame. Thing is, anyone who’s been around long enough to get to know me, has clearly seen, that I am all sista at heart. While like Jen said, much of that had nothing to do with being an academic achiever, but my speech and knowledge of me going to a pretty exclusive, all white(interestingly, they never teased me) school was always the jump off. Did this influence me not to achieve? No, but I admit, regrettably(sp) that it did influence me to pretend not to. I listened religiously to every bit of “gangster” rap that I could. I consumed everything “black”. While I never tried to be white, I was now making a conscious effort to be black, which despite my actually being black, was a huge task! I liked NIN and red hot chilli peppers as well as anita, and cameo etc. I wasn’t partial, as I had grown up in both worlds. but now, I was trying. Still to this day, some of my closest friends laugh when they hear me talk to some of my older friends, because they say I “turn on”, when in reality, if I’m turning anything, which I don’t even recognize, it would be off. Luckily, my family kept me focused enough to not actually be persuaded to stop overachieving, but it is sad that I felt the need to work not to speak proper english, and pretend not to care in order to gain acceptance/ghetto pass in a community of my own. I am not the exception. Based upon friends with similar circumstances, I am the rule.
TMA July 6, 2010 at 1:16 am I’ve seen this meme on the ninjanets before. And as a smart, nerdy, and not very socially awkward child/adolescent, I know from personal experience that some black folks/kids will come at you for getting very good grades and speaking “proper” English. Now, I don’t think it happens to all smart, nerdy black children, but it does happen. I still haven’t figured out if denying that this happens is a way to defend the race. But I know what my experience was growing up. And I’ve talked to black peers who had similar experiences.
I agree TMA. This was my experience as well. My family teased me for “talking white.” I was moved from first grade to third grade and my first grade friends stopped being friends with me. And my third grade classmates hated me too.
Unfortunately, I also think there’s a class component to this as well. My experience and my daughter’s experience demonstrates that. Adults and kids with more economic stability or better values were less likely to tease me or my daughter as she grew up.
Yes, my family wasn’t the best either. One of my cousins called me “Brainiac” for years because I liked to read books. My grandmother (G-d rest her soul) used to tell me to stop reading so much. I was also accused of trying to act white by many black girls in my class because from grades 3-5 most of my friends were white; they were in my AG classes and read lots of the same books I was interested in.
Like others have mentioned in other comments, the teasing definitely decreased by high school. I was even nominated for homecoming court before leaving for my “nerdy” high school. However, the memory of the teasing never left. And, I was one of two black people in my AG English and math classes. I existed in this weird no (wo)man’s land for much of high school.
Things got much better when I went to undergrad, a HBCU for black women. Ironically, I found out some of my classmates teased me (behind my back; some of these ladies would later become my line sisters) during freshman year because I sat on the front row and furiously took notes. Oh, they also thought I was funny because I had a big bookbag…you know, for books. What they didn’t know is that I was so pressed to do well because my parents had told me I had to find additional scholarships by the end of freshman year to cover *all* of my educational expenses (room and board), or else I was coming back to my home state to go to school. So, yeah, I was a little pressed. However, it always struck me that even for so called “smart” black folks, it was important to appear to be “cool.” Also, I found out that “smart” and “college educated” don’t always equal “intellectually curious” or “reader.”
My parents are “working class” (they didn’t go to college, but had stable government jobs throughout my life), but they placed a very high value on education. My father taught me how to read before I went to school and would take me to the library every two weeks, so I could get fresh books. That made a huge impact on my life and gave me my love of reading. The influence of parents pays a huuuuge role in this, I believe.
@TMA-The influence of parents pays a huuuuge role in this, I believe.
This is THE #1 factor in student achievement. My mother was a stay-at-home mother throughout my elementary school years and she volunteered in my classes and school. I was also very active at my daughter’s elementary schools and she was also a high achiever (she was identified as gifted).
Although I believe that government should not make parents participate in their child(ren)’s education, I do believe the tax code should incentivize parental involvement. Given the long-term benefits, I don’t think that America can afford not to come up with new and creative ways to increase student achievement.
I think the demographics of the school is a big factor. I say more teasing at my elementary school that’s was made up of lower income black, ” trailer trash” and one mid income neighborhood than the school lat buses in mid class blabks and lower income blacks. I think I stood out more compared to the poor white kids than the poor black kids.
My middle school was a good mix and my high school was predominantly black…so it got better…or I just stopped caring.
“I agree TMA. This was my experience as well. My family teased me for “talking white.” ”
Yeah, I notice more grief from certain family members than people in school. And actually, I didn’t get any “oreo” names until I was already an adult. But of course, this was from a cousin who STILL sucks three of his fingers and bought a giant TV as soon as he got his refund check (through shady means), of which he had to sell a few months later because he didn’t have any money for his rent. o_________O
Guess how much I’m insulted by his “claims”? Yeah, not at all.
Ok, lemme take that back, I did get defensive when he made such claims but it’s because it was in the middle of the night and I was already in #cheekieafterdark mode. But, I digress and whatnot.
As of now? We’re cool. I’m doing fine on cloud nine and his fingers smell like hotdog water.
“As of now? We’re cool. I’m doing fine on cloud nine and his fingers smell like hotdog water.”
i just had the urge to both laugh and puke. nice work! lol
Hey Champ!!
Okay, since I’ve gotten older and looked back at life, I’ve come to realize that getting picked on is NEVER about the actual person getting picked on but about the insecurity of the picker-on-er.
It only discourages someone if they let it. I used to get the ‘you talk/act so white’ phrase daily. As an adult, Im just baffled at how much people let stupid isht that happened in middle & highschool completely dictate the rest of their lives. I just would look at that person with a lamar odom-kardashian face and keep it moving!
And please please please (hammer dont hurt ‘em) don’t let that phrase come out of an ADULT’S mouth. Some children speak because they dont know any better. Anyone over the age of 19 still saying that ‘you act/talk white’ phrase is a fail.
*cant wait to read yalls comments in the morn at work!!*
#thatisall
I’m doing to disagree with the insecurity thing. I got picked on for being African and talking with an accent when I was younger. I can’t imagine what insecurity would give rise to that. Some people at some times in their lives are just plain mean.
That could still be insecurity. They probably looked at you and say different and interesting and were concerned that they’d be forgotten/overlooked so they picked on you to keep all eyes on them. Just a thought.
“Some people at some times in their lives are just plain mean.”
i agree.
Smart POOR black students might get teased,
but blacks with money at expensive prep schools have a sense of entitlement the size of TX.
Tease them?
They pity you if you’re not legacy at HYS.
welcome and sh*t, liverlips.
Great topic…
Most kids/teens who speak/act differently from their peers get flack to some degree…its part of growing up, but your job is to not let it turn you bitter.
On another topic:
Yo Champ,
When you gonna do a post on the hottest and most underrated female celebrities…theres a few that never get mentioned and sh*t.
“Yo Champ,
When you gonna do a post on the hottest and most underrated female celebrities…theres a few that never get mentioned and sh*t.”
lol, we do that about once every 3 months or so. check the archives. welcome and sh*t, btw
it makes it seem like they’re blaming the victims–that black people can’t advance in society because of the culture instead of looking at the racist systematic structure. it perpetuates the story of how it’s black people who keep their own people down. not that all the responsibility should be taken off them, but we need to look at the system as well the whole nature/nuture argument. people of color are also heavy perpetuators of racism/stereotypes. by continuing to use terminology such as acting white/black/etc we are reinforcing stereotypes about different ethnic groups.
it makes it seem like they’re blaming the victims–that black people can’t advance in society because of the culture instead of looking at the racist systematic structure. it perpetuates the story of how it’s black people who keep their own people down. not that all the responsibility should be taken off them, but we need to look at the system as well the whole nature/nuture argument
interesting point and sh*t
I think it does exist in some form.
I personally haven’t, but some of my friends have been given heat for not attending an HBCU. They’ve been accused, by family or older graduates of HBCUs, for being uppity, bouje, or “acting white”.
From the 4th and up I’ve attened a majority White school, so I can’t really recall any teasing.
I personally haven’t, but some of my friends have been given heat for not attending an HBCU. They’ve been accused, by family or older graduates of HBCUs, for being uppity, bouje, or “acting white”.
see, i don’t know if this is the same as being bullied for being too smart
I do. And it ain’t.
I hear you on the HBCU bit. I did not want to attend one, and people ‘question’, not tease, me about why I did not go to one. My high school was historically black, and I wanted a different experience for college. Was never teased there. I was in honors classes at my predominately black high school, and we all were in competition with each other about grades. There was never teasing or picking. I had elective classes with other kids not in my honors classes, and there was never a problem.
My hometown is a military base, so its a melting pot. Everyone was mixed with something. It just wasn’t a big deal.
I totally agree with your Number 3-See- Michael Steele, I was gonna attach the clip from last nights The Daily Show, but then I woulda got all caught up in moderation…so just because of that , I did not, however if you have not seent it (yes I said seent cause I didn’t want to be accused of speaking white)..please check it out, as it totally adds validity to your point , and I actually must agree with your entire post basically…just my 2 cents
thanks. and way to break the world’s record for “most commas in a 50 word span”
I wish I could agree a thousand times. It’s the new millenium. Education is abundant. Success is rampant. Smart kid doesn’t equal victim anymore.
I grew up a smart black kid in the hood, went to some of the worst schools in this city and never got teased a day in my life for being smart. (And we don’t have bullies around here, we have gangs. Having somebody “say” something to you about how you sound or act is a helluva lot better than being jumped for your belongings. Being smart is the last of your worries.) Intelligence didn’t make me an outcast. Some kids are smart and some kids aren’t. Anybody that had a problem with me being smart was playing themselves. There will always be people that don’t like your success. That’s called envy, jealousy, and hate. These things are found in every community.
IMO sounding “white” doesn’t have a damn thing to do with speaking proper english and I wish people would let that die. It has to do with how people “sound” and I assume most people know that accents are very relative. The way you sound is largely depending on how the people surrounding you sound (or coach you to sound).
Once I got to college, I started hearing these “I sound white” horror stories from people that were transplanted from one area to another (b/c they moved or got bused to a new school). I’m pretty sure that people weren’t teasing them b/c they’re smart (a lot of them weren’t that smart, honestly). They were teasing them because they sound different. But, that’s the “teasers” problem. The “sound white” and “smart” correlation was being made by people that were learning how to carry a decimal and compound fractions! Chile, boo.
I don’t believe that there is a such thing as “proper” english and I’m not too nuts about the term “correct” either, but I’ll go ahead and say that I speak correct English. As a matter of fact I have 1.5 degrees in it so far and I teach English. I sound like a black woman. And, yes, I code switch when appropriate. I can speak and write both formally and informally when appropriate. That’s the beauty of language, it’s maleable. We need to remember that. Speaking correct english doesn’t negate my blackness or somehow mean I’m “acting” white. I sound like a black person speaking correct english. The two don’t always go hand in hand and I wish we’d stop pretending like they do. Assuming that speaking correcntly is sounding white makes me think that folks also assume that speaking incorrectly means you sound black. And that I have a big problem with. But, I don’t feel like getting into that. Save it for my future dissertation, lol.
And half of these 2520s and 2520 sounding folk have terrible language skills. If I get one more paper from so-called “white sounding person” that uses “like,” “basically,” or “mainly” 15 times, I’m going to scream. You ever stood behind teenage 2520s and listened to their conversation? LOL.
Preach…….
In my line of work I have met a number of dumb b*tches who have a problem with my percieved “accent”. 2520′s seem not to realise that one having a dialect or an accent if you may doesnt always equal to improper english. Infact they are a great culprits when it comes to bad grammer.. Just saying.
I never had a problem growing up because they were smart. In my school I dont remember anyone being teased because they were smart, but kids were teased for being different like dress up awkward, talk wierd, fat kids e.t.c
Sorry for the long rant. This is my second conversation about this topic this week and the whole thing gets on my nerves.
For clarification, I brought up the “sounding white” and speaking correctly thing b/c that’s usually the first rung on the “you act white” ladder. I know it wasn’t brought up specifically in the post. My bad for not making that clear, lol.
*off to reread Harry Potter & the Half Blood Prince*
hey B!! im on Goblet of Fire right na!
Hey now! lol I think I’ll start the series over when I finish DH. It’s been years since I read most of them.
@ B^2
**Assuming that speaking correcntly is sounding white makes me think that folks also assume that speaking incorrectly means you sound black.**
^^^^this is exactly what the kids meant that were teasing me in school. I grew up in the south and although I don’t have a particularly southern accent (no one ever knows where I’m from) my accent ( or lack thereof) was not the reason for their “you sound white comment”
NOW I do agree with you and even as a child i wondered why speaking “correctly”= talking white. But it did to them. **shrug**
@bsquared86
if your comment was a donut, i would eat it.
LMAO. Thanks, Champ.
The “you acting white” song and dance was popular in jr. high but was usually dead by high school for a couple of reasons: the folks who used that label had dropped out by that point (I guess they couldn’t fit 9th grade into their schedules.) and the population of school begin to resemble a jail yard. You didn’t get picked on for being smart, that was an asset, but if you were weird then God bless you. So if you stuck out from the pack enough then yes your life was hell. Then again my high school’s population was barely 400 when I was there so it may have happened on a smaller scale.
I don’t think it’s a myth but I’m not sure about how often the label is used due to what saw growing up. When it did happen I just chalk it up to hater parents having hater kids. Kanye West.
Hope that makes sense.
The “you acting white” song and dance was popular in jr. high but was usually gone by high school for a couple of reasons: the folks who used that label had dropped out by that point (I guess they couldn’t fit 9th grade into their schedules.) and the population of school begin to resemble a jail yard. You didn’t get picked on for being smart, that was an asset, but if you were weird then God bless you. So if you stuck out from the pack enough then yes your life was hell. Then again my high school’s population was barely 400 when I was there so it may have happened on a smaller scale.
I don’t think it’s a myth but I’m not sure about how often the label is used due to what saw growing up. When it did happen I just chalk it up to hater parents having hater kids. Kanye West.
Hope that makes sense.
“The “you acting white” song and dance was popular in jr. high but was usually gone by high school for a couple of reasons: the folks who used that label had dropped out by that point (I guess they couldn’t fit 9th grade into their schedules.) ”
Too true. LMAO I wish I would known that in 6/7th grade.
I got the “you sound white” and “so you think you better/smarter than us huh?” comments from elem to like middle school. I blame that on being the new kid a lot (my family moved around a lot when I was younger) and my teachers always being amazed at my test scores & grades because they usually had a class full of below grade level learners. They made such a big deal over me sometimes I would constantly get the stank face from the other “smarties” whose new territory I was encroaching on (hence the “better/smarter” than us comments).
But all of that fizzled off of course when I was wearing a D cup by 7th grade and nobody was really caring how smart I was. *Thanks puberty*
Now I was in a Magnet program in h.s., so it was constant competition to flex how smart you were. Ninja’s were walking around with their chest’s puffed out when it was time to announce how many colleges you got into and your total scholarship amounts during graduation week.
^ ^ ^ this right here was my entire elementary school life. Throw in a father in tbe Army, a move every three years and being the one of the smart and usually one of no more than 5 black kids in the class, and you have me.
smart kid doesnt equal victim, true, but the introduction of the “crabs in a barrel” mentality does shape you. At least it did for me. I was never black enough for black people. It wasnt till about 9th grade that I stopped caring. Imma do me and if you dont like it, kick rocks. I know what I see every day.
I’m on the fence about this one. As soon as I saw where you were headed with this, I started gearing up the protestations. But then I wasn’t so sure…
I know that mentality existed in my own family and in my neighborhood (definitely the hood) when I was younger, b/c I had to sort of become “bilingual” (I know I’m not the only one) and talk (and even act) a certain way around my family and neighbors just to avoid drama. Seriously, they used to give me sht b/c I didn’t say “finna” and “ain’t”. Reading books instead of learning to do the latest dance on somebody’s stoop made me uppity (true story, book knocked out of my hand and everything), even if I was still interacting with the kids all the time. The same occurred with my mother growing up, and they all act like we’re the only black people in Mississippi who don’t have local accents (as if we purposely avoid talking with them, when in reality, it just comes naturally). Nowadays they tell me how proud they are of me, etc. But as much as I appreciate that, it doesn’t change that I had kind of a dual personality growing up just to avoid regular confrontation. But, maybe family just picks on you more. And, although I was raised by a single mother, in the hood, living w/ my grandmother a lot like most of my cousins who gave me sht constantly, it probably didn’t help that my mom became a doctor, so I can see both sides.
In elementary school, I was definitely victimized for “acting white”, much attributed to the same reasons as my home life. Buuuut, I did go to a pro-black, damn-near-militant elementary school for black kids run by people who were presumed Black Panthers before opening their school…soooo… I even chose my middle school (a public school, predominantly black) specifically b/c I wanted to learn to be “hard” (hand to God, this was my crazy logic, so I guess I wasn’t w/o my silly stereotypes). THAT was rough. High school was probably where I was finally able to shake the feeling of being thought to “act white”, even if only b/c I was surrounded by people who’d had similar experiences.
But idk, I did get alternately picked on and praised my whole life for being a nerd, too. To be honest, and perhaps it’s where I come from, I’m still not sure where being nerdy/smart ends and “acting white” begins as an affront to the proposed hood mentality. The lines are very blurred, at least here.
Oh yeah, and I could write a whole other essay about the sht I got for my musical tastes (but I won’t). Man, did I ever get crazy looks/comments when people looked in my CD player or cases, as did my best friend. But let Lil’ Wayne and Rihanna walk around w/ some guitars, skulls, and black nail polish and all of a sudden “rock” music is what’s hot in the streets. Smh…I’m not bitter.
Not DARIA LOL!!!
WHOOOOO! Hell, this is me NOW!!! I went through a complete headbanger phase in middle school (the black chick in the Motley Crue tshirt? That was me!). I promise I thought I was the only black person in the world, besides Jimi Hendrix, who listened to rock. Imagine my surprise when I was introduced to Living Colour and Fishbone.
And not Daria and Jane!!! *theme song plays in head*
OMG…I remember Living Colour (not the show) lol
I co-sign with you on this completely. I am the same way. I tell people all the time that the best way to get to know me is to look through my Ipod. The stuff I listen to is what I have been listening to for a long time but now that rappers are making gimmicky songs that have an prominent electric guitar to it, “rock music” is cool, yet the people that listen to that stuff couldn’t tell you a Jimi Hendrix song other than “Purple Haze”.
Co-sign with you, CBG…
last night, i just let my iPod play.. (i was writing).. and i run up on Gaelle, Goo Goo Dolls, Dave Matthews Band and Medhi Hassan (sitar music).. i thought to myself “Lord have mercy, that’s a mix!”
i’ve been blastin the Wale’ mixtape all flippin weekend tho.. that junk is FIYAH!!
I do that every time I am in the office. This morning it was Hendrix, SRV, New Edition, Stan Getz/Joao Gilberto (I love bossanova), Sting, Cameo. Got some Johnny Guitar Watson on now.
Stan Getz/Joao Gilberto (I love bossanova)
With that I might have to join the long listed fan club.
@Sula,
I love the Getz/Gilberto album. I love Joao’s daughter, Bebel, too. She has a lovely voice. Bossanova makes me smile
. Just such relaxing music.
@ComicBookGuy,
Bossanova makes me smile
. Just such relaxing music.
Reminds me of sunday afternoons at my parents’ house… good stuff.
my weakness is European Lounge Music..
Stephane Pompougnac.. LTJ Bukem.. also some of the Putumayo stuff.. people love my Hindi singing.. like they can’t believe a Jamaican chick is doing it..
also the people at Verve did this disk set that takes jazz songs and asks DJs to put beats over them..
the originals are Verve Unmixed.. and the ones with the DJs are called “Verve remixed..”
you’ve GOTTA hear “return to paradise..” it’s so funky.. i love it!
I love the stuff that Putumayo puts out. I got their Brazilian Lounge Music compilation four years ago and it never leaves my Ipod. I might have to check out Verve Unmixed. They have a cool channel on Sirius Radio that has European Lounge music.
1) LMAO @ you calling Akeelah’s brother Namond Brice. The scene of the neighborhood thug helping her study warms my heart every time.
2) White people don’t use washcloths? Ewww…
3) As a precocious 8 y/o moving from Utah to The South, I definitely got picked on b/c
“she thank she white”my subjects and my verbs were in agreement.4) By the time I reached H.S., I wasn’t ever “picked on,” but I was definitely “othered.” My favorite story: I was the class president, so I had a reserved parking spot in the front of the school right next to The Teacher of the Year’s reserved spot. I found a student’s wallet and when I saw him, was like “let’s go get your wallet out of my car.” When he saw where I was parked, he was like, “Why are you parked here.” I said, “Because I’m the class president.” He says, “Ewww…. you got White people privileges.”
Word? My people, my people.
You *drove* to school. . . yep, definitely white people privilege
“Why are you parked here.” I said, “Because I’m the class president.” He says, “Ewww…. you got White people privileges.”
lmbao! wow!
lmao @ “I definitely got picked on b/c my subjects and my verbs were in agreement.” love it!
YUP. I was the smart girl. When I DARED appear in the hallways or bathrooms DURING class, those SKIPPING class would get all prepped to beat my azz for NOT being in class: “What U doin’ in here??!,” then relaxed and went back to smoking or punking some hapless victim who’d gotten outta pocket after I showed THEM my pass! Mind you, had the school narcs (teachers) rolled into the bathrooms or halls at that very moment? I’d walk and they’d be thrown in detention for life, alla the ciggys they were smoking! Once, I learned that my brother was suspended and stormed into the vice principal’s office, yelling at him “You will find out when my parents show up tomorrow morning that you’ve messed with the WRONG Black boy!” Alla the thugs and thugettes looked at me with their mouths as wide as the Grand Canyon. Mind you, they cursed like sailors and were likely in his office for curing out one or various teachers. Still: I was all Honor Roll/Society/Student Gov’t; WTF??! So, even when I rolled into the bathrooms (girl grooming required it) with my scared-azz friends (who, what, HELD it until they went home? damm), the rough chicks were all like “whassup?” That got me cool points with the nerdy girls (as they DID get tormented). My girlfriend who grew up in a USDA-certified ‘hood still glows to this day about how the drug boys and dealers gave money to help her single mom gather funds to send my friend to boarding school when she scored off the charts on some “Help Baby Negroes Fly Away” test. That scene in “Akeelah” broke her down in the theater; she almost stole KeKe’s scene.
And now that you mention it? The only time I was tormented by thugetts was when I, yup, SNITCHED. That’s when they made my life miserable. But even then, acting like I wasn’t scared — you know, like I had some esteem, even if I was going to take a beating — saved my azz from even the snitch-comeuppance.
so basically, you were a female version of randy from the wire (except for the getting saved from the snitch comeuppance part)
Okay: this COULD be a maybe I AM acting 2520 when I tell you that I’ve only seen one season of The Wire and that was last summer under duress because a friend who’d had surgery wanted me to sit with her and watch it….BUT, since the 2520s love The Wire more than every Black person I know?
But, I WAS going to mention The Wire right after “Akeelah and The Bee.” What I DO recall was that NO.ONE.HAD.ONE.PROBLEM.WITH.SMART.IN.DA.DAMMM.
WORST.HOOD.EVER. In fact? The thing that made it all so good was the utter brilliance of NOT the police, but “da streets.” Man: if someone had taught me to play chess the way it was taught in Season 1 (D’Angelo teaching Wallace and Bodie – who could get it any way he wanted it)? I’d be a MACHINE. Deep Blue. (Don’t think I’m off that Drake, yo. Detox.)
I have to be at work soon and don’t have the time to type up a thought out post, so instead I’ll share this semi-related conversation between me and a friend last week:
*my phone rings*
Me: Yo.
Him: Where you at man?
Me: On my way to the bookstore.
Him: The bookstore?
Me: Yeah.
Him: For what?
Me: …um, books…
Him: For grad school?
Me: No.
Him: What books?
Me: …books to read.
Him: You read books?
At this, I, as a three week old college graduate, promptly hung up.
Black people read? smh
Yep, time to get some new friends because if he is around your age (I’m guessing 22+), they should know about the local coffee shop/bookstore at least, a Barnes and Noble…geesh…LOL
(1) i quit with Jai’s avatar
(2) I don’t know if this is just a Black thing. I feel like all adults have suddenly forgotten to read for recreation. *goes back to twitter*
i don’t know why this is so “off” to people..
I get the -_O when i tell people that i’m going to the bookstore too..
“NO! i’m not buying a magazine.. it’s a BOOK!”
it’s almost like they also wanna ask, “does it have pictures?”
GTFOHWTBS!
@Champ, was that a sarcastic dig at your readers when you used “congregate” instead of conjugate or did you put that in to see who would point it out?
that is called “still making edits to the entry at 12.46am despite suffering from a food coma”.
Also, regarding the fine Rashida, you should be careful. She was almost sister-in-law to Tupac. Wouldn’t want to have your name mentioned in his next CD (which I heard is coming out in 4 months).
“Smart kids don’t get picked on just because they’re smart, but…nerdy kids do”.
I have to agree with this 100%. I went to high school in Los Angeles; a school that was predominately black (and referenced numerous times in movies like “Boys n the Hood” and “Love and Basketball”; you get my drift… a “hood” school!). Anyways, I graduated with a 3.8 G.P.A., and no, I was not the valedictorian or salutatorian.
Students went to class and it was frowned upon if you ditched. Getting straight A’s wasn’t looked down upon nor was it congratulated, it was just something you either chose to do or didn’t (and parents had a lot of influence in what students strived for). On graduation day, students were proud to don their gold ropes (signifying a 3.5 G.P.A. or higher) or silver ropes (signifying a 3.0 G.P.A. or higher) and were excited to declare the top-notch colleges they would be attending.
We had to balance our studies, extracirricular activities, and making sure we had on the cutest outfits and flyest shoes. Kids didn’t get picked on for getting good grades; kids got picked on for not perfecting that balancing act!
In my schools you got picked on for being different. Being one of the smart kids didn’t necessarily make you different. Being from Africa or being poor, that made you different. I got the African thing, and that never bothered me. It was the poor part, especially when you knew half those kids parents could hardly afford all the brand name stuff they were buying the kids – I couldn’t imagine why they were so proud to be the beneficiaries of their parent’s bad decisions.
I dunno about this one. I agree that’s it’s not as bad as some make it out to be, but I do believe it happens.
I was always the smart kid and did get teased and called Oreo, etc…I remember being picked on and feeling bad about it, but I wasn’t about to not do well because of it. I also was certainly never beat up because of it.
I agree with another commented point that after a certain point classes are separated into smart, average and below average. My school system actually did this is elementary school. Whole interactions may have been limited you were cleary labeled by virtue of whose class you were in.
I’ve gotta think on this. I’ll be back.
Ok as I think back. I think everyone (except the bullies) were picked on for something and most of my white girl/oreo comments from the other kids could also be attributed to my being teachers pet, dressing like Ashley banks/Rudy huxtable, my lack of knowledge of hip hop songs, the fact I had a perm in kindergarten and the fact my parents dropped us off in an Audi.
“…most of my white girl/oreo comments from the other kids could also be attributed to my being teachers pet, dressing like Ashley banks/Rudy huxtable, my lack of knowledge of hip hop songs, the fact I had a perm in kindergarten and the fact my parents dropped us off in an Audi.”
ummm…yeah.
So…am I a nerd because reading “congregate verbs” made me cringe? Did everyone else know that it’s “conjugate” but was too polite to interject? I might get stoned for this…
congregate deez
Nice post, I would like to see you guys go deeper into the “half truths” that are ofted recited and repeated in our community. This is doing a lot of damage and people need to start questioning these “50% of all blacks have (fill in the blank)” reports that seem to come out of thin air.
we’ve taken on half-truths many times before (ie: http://www.verysmartbrothas.com/but-when-he-gets-on-hell-leave-your-ass-for-a-white-girl-or-not/). personally, that’s one of my favorite topic formulas.
welcome and sh*t, btw
As a West Indian, (or child thereof), this subject is near and dear to my heart. But rather than recount the instances where de stupid Yankee children dem would laugh now and then cry at graduation.. let’s focus on this acting white book.
The book is written by a white man who adopted a black child. That’s the primary motivation in writing the book.
Here is how he describes the phenom.
“Buck, Arkansas University doctoral fellow in education reform, enters the black-white achievement gap debate with a review of anti-academic attitudes among some black students, who dub school achievement as acting white; he finds its roots in what was lost when schools were desegregated.”
This is a very 2520 way of reading things. This is a very, “when we were colored” way of reading things. I.E. before the white man let us sit next to him on the toilet, every last one of us loved education…If only we could go back to that segregated living, where we had a Black Wall Street and listened to real music….
If you read his blog, read his arguments, peruse the book, you notice he spends a lot of time talking about black kids going to middle class white schools with few black peers, many white peers, and a truckload of white teachers and administrators. (That probably fits a lot of you to the T, not that there’s anything wrong with that)
But how much time does he spend talking about schools that most black kids go to? Schools where most of the staff is black, most of the kids are black (and brown, viva la raza!) in a primarily black neighborhood?
How do we explain the “acting white” meme in virtually all black environments? Especially when even after desegregation, quiet as kept, a lot of black schools all over the country stayed pretty much black. To some extent, the resistance to education is the resistance to (an illegitimate) authority. But we don’t want to question the power structure that exists in minority spheres of influence.
But back to the topic, this kind of thinking about “acting white” says that black kids are basically being racist towards each other, takes our eyes off the ball. Is this really THE issue? What happens when you take all those smart/acting white kids and put them in a college setting? An HBCU? Hmmmmm…
Do black kids primarily fail to do well as their Anglo Counterparts because of
- acting white
or
- inadequate funding
- poor financial controls
- underpaid teachers
- ineffective teachers
- curriculum that means little
- parents that really don’t know about good education, because they themselves never had one, much less can determine how good the instruction is based on the homework and the once a year meet and greet with lil Tyqueenesha’s teacher at the beginning of the semester.
- the neighborhood itself
I’m waiting for the white folks to wonder why Chet isn’t doing as well as Vijay.
We’re already hearing in the mainstream press that there’s a war on boys, because schools are amenable to the character of girls and they’re going to college and getting degrees much better than boys…. I digress.
I know a lot of you folks have Pavlovian responses like “harlem children’s zone”, “white flight”, “black flight”, and “property tax education funding reform” – but you need to get into the habit of thinking much more deeply about this topic – much like this guy.
Every time you come up with a hypothesis on this topic (or any) just look for some obvious counter-examples and ask yourself how can these 2 things be true.
IMO, he basically makes the argument that most black folks was on that Thurgood Marshall up until a few years after the desegregation of that school in Little Rock. Soon after that we all became Weezy. (a kid who went to a magnet school and for time was enrolled at the university of Houston, won’t even speak on Master of Eletrical Engineering Plies)
As for the 3 types outlined, i’ll let y’all handle that.
“To some extent, the resistance to education is the resistance to (an illegitimate) authority.”
mad props
“But we don’t want to question the power structure that exists in minority spheres of influence.”
i’ll disagree…..cause question it day and night i do….
china is bout to get f*ucked right now…..cause they on a quest to be white….blond blue eye and tig bittied….and they don’t have the sense to ask “who’s tellin us to change…and why?”
at the end folks are afraid to be different….that’s how i see it.
I cosign. As a west indian (whaapum yaadie!) african americans did not like west indians and would make fun of me for how i said certain words like vegetable, etc.
lol @ SFG’s west indian massive welcome.
“How do we explain the “acting white” meme in virtually all black environments?”
THIS. DOES. NOT. HAPPEN. At least not as it is described by the mainstream media. I have always lived in Black neighborhoods, I attended an HBCU and my elementary school was 99.8% Black (we had two Mexican students). I have worked with Black children in largely minority environments my entire life and I have never ever ever seen a Black child accused of “acting white” because s/he was intelligent in such an environment.
Keep your West Indian myths about Black Americans to YOURSELF.
TYIA.
^Didn’t read it very closely.
Then give me an executive summary, because if I misunderstood that premise, you didn’t present yourself very coherently.
Quite simply he talks about all black academic achievement (or lack thereof) by focusing on the the black kids who were bused into white schools.
As a black man, i’m also concerned with black kids who go to mostly black schools. There are (and have been) plenty of black schools that routinely fail to educate their children irrespective of any name calling.
It’s a very disingenuous way to explain the failure of black education in this country by blaming a subset of myopic black children for name calling another set in desegregated schools. (it’s pretty clear that it does happen in black schools and white schools, as evidenced by this thread, so miss me with that it don’t happen)
Really? That’s the biggest problem black children in education face? foh….
It pains me that folks just don’t see through the propaganda. They’re making you into puppets.
*shrugs* I learned a grip about illusion going to 2520 schools
Still pretty f-ing incoherent, Archie.
“(it’s pretty clear that it does happen in black schools and white schools, as evidenced by this thread, so miss me with that it don’t happen”
Absolutely nobody in this thread has made any viable argument that they were actually teased by little Black kids in a Black environment for being intelligent. Even those who who have been able to establish that they were teased in white environments have acknowledged that the teasing was not a product of any Black value. Those who insist otherwise seem a little too happy to equate stuff like “living in a white neighborhood” with “being intelligent” and other such low-IQ ridiculousness. Why in coon’s hell are you so willing to buy into this foolishness?? Why in the world would you possibly accept the idea that Black Americans have created the only culture in the WORLD wherein stupidity is a heralded value?
The fact that you are glossing over seriously addressing The Champ’s premise, the basis of the entire blog post, is what makes your comments read as both disposable and incoherent. Miss me with your the-white-man-taught-me-Jedi-mind-tricks foolishness until those tricks help you draw up a rational relevant and well-informed point.
Please also miss me with this idea that acknowledging the reality of integration’s effects on the Black American tradition of self-education is “a very 2520 way of reading things.” Over a century ago, fresh the hell out of slavery, mine was one of the families building and teaching in “colored” schools in Louisiana. To this day, I have relatives who are administrators, professors, teachers and presidents of HBCUs. Are you now going to tell me that my family and our values do not exist?
Black people have always valued education in this country, and we have traditionally managed to educate our children despite the overwhelming social and economic odds against us. Something happened, and that something is that Black people loss control of how we educate our children. But you are too disrespectful of the history of the country you live in to connect the dots and see that that’s real talk–not fairy tale.
To some extent, the resistance to education is the resistance to (an illegitimate) authority. But we don’t want to question the power structure that exists in minority spheres of influence.
Very well put. And good food for thought.
For most of my life i went to the good schools across town. I used to get picked on cuz we were poor not cuz i was exponentially smarter than my peers. But I have lil sympathy for nerds that get picked on. Learn how to fight, after i got beat up on my first day of school (by a girl smh) I learned how to fight. Nignags wanna talk shit then we gonna handle it.
Buuuut I agree that acting white to me isn’t about achieving, it’s about shit acting white. Like turning your nose up at the idea of anything black. Like “BBQ RIBS? *scoffs* I don’t eat those, i only eat vegan products or whatever the hell else white folks eat” my issue with those types of people is that the things they’re trying to rid themselves of are often things white people do too, like eat ribs, or watermelon, or fried chicken. smoke weed etc.
I wish I could wear my “Stay Black” tee to work, but unfortunately that doesn’t fall under business casual, maybe with a blazer?!?
I don’t think making healthier eating choices counts as acting white.* Maybe if it didn’t, so many black folks wouldn’t have high blood pressure and diabetes. Now, scoffing at people who decide they still want to eat ribs, that’s just bad behavior no matter your race. And I don’t care if white people partake in foolishness; that doesn’t mean black folks need to do it, too.
*I’m not turning this into a debate about whether vegan diets are very healthy. My point is that doing something outside the norm for the mainstream black person could just mean you’re making conscious choices, not rejecting black folks.
I never really understood why eating certain things is considered “black.” I personally don’t like ribs (I just don’t like the taste), kool-aid (I had more than my fair share as a kid and grape tastes lime Dimetapp), watermelon (see pork), or fried chicken (it reminds me of funerals). Does that mean I act white?
watermelon (see pork), should actually read: watermelon (see ribs)
Editing feature, how I miss thee…
I made myself sick off of Dimetapp as a kid. That was crack. I would fake sick just to get some.
I’m the opposite. I was such a sickly kid that I would “fake well” just so I didn’t have to take Dimetapp and I would ask for water on grape kool-aid nights at dinnertime.
uh…i hate chicken….blame frank perdue for it…
love watermelon….
send me one of them shirts too….
I request permission to use this word “nignag” for future yes. I am black, I love ribs, and I eat watermelon. Yeah ridding yourself of “blackness” to be accepted is sad and lonely.
@J-Full.net
“I wish I could wear my “Stay Black” tee to work, but unfortunately that doesn’t fall under business casual, maybe with a blazer?!?”
LOL!!!
“congregating verbs”
Did you mean: conjugating verbs? Google.
That was my first attempt at a Drakeism and also a perfect example of why I got picked on as a kid. Some people don’t necessarily like to be corrected by the smart girl and once I learned that (in elementary school) I fared better among my peers. The only people who picked on me in middle and high school were those who were jealous, insecure, or just didn’t get me.
My parents were among the first classes of students to go to integrated high schools in the South. They were friends with the 2520 hippies who didn’t really care what color they were as long as the weed was green and the liquor was brown. Ultimately their children would become my classmates as would my Black neighbors. I acted the same within both circles. Some of my Black friends were mistrusting of White people and thought I was weird for being so comfortable around them. In middle and high school I was one of those curve-wrecking students because I just had to get an A. I never cheated (too scared) but offered to help any and everyone study. I was a band geek and a cheerleader, both groups were predominately White. Fortunately for me I dated a
dopepopular boy and that gave me a little more credibility and reinstated my Black card. Thinking back, I realize just how sad that really was, kind of how living in the hood owning a pit bull keeps any assumptions of my presumption at bay.“That was my first attempt at a Drakeism and also a perfect example of why I got picked on as a kid. Some people don’t necessarily like to be corrected by the smart girl”
lol, getting corrected by the smart and corny girl is even worse
Ouch. I knew the reply would be harsh but did you really have to call me corny?
*hangs head, hunches shoulders, and goes off to e-corner to cry*
@atypicallibrarian
hush. there there. never mind.
e-hugs. : )
My childhood was a little ‘ruff’. I grew up in a multi-cultural neighborhood around the corner from Gov. Tim Kaine, I was into Nelson, Def Leopard (still am), White Snake, Poison, Motley Crue and New Kids on the Block. My parent’s (and myself) were/are conservative Republicans and went to meetings of such. I played the violin and was a part of the children’s symphony and I was the ULTIMATE NERD/GEEK (I use to compete with a classmate to see who was going to make scholar roll every quarter. I wore braces (7 years…my shyts were jacked) and had to wear glasses, could care less about fashion as long as I could learn…I was o.k.
All of this changed when I asked my parents to go to high school that was not my zone school but was popular (and not for scholastic reasons).
I was always popular, but I wasn’t the girl that the little boys had a crush on (until high school). I applied for my Black card when I heard a song from Wu-Tang (and I met this guy named *Randall)
*named changed to respect identity LOL
OMG!! WHERE WERE YOU IN 1988 IN NORTHERN VA!!!???
In the capitol…wondering how I could get my parents to buy my tickets to the NKOTB concert in Norfolk LOL!
Jai with them ghetto avi’s you got? You hood girl…and I love you. lol We had the same upbringing except I played piano, ballet, even rode horses. *lowers head*..Then I started 10th grade in a more diverse school, met a Jamaican wanna be drug dealer named Andre aka Flex and it was on. I applied for my black card in 1995.
even rode horses. *lowers head* (side eye at the lowering of the head in astericks…that is why i heart you!)
alas, it’s been a min…ohhh you mean a real thoroughbred.
My mind stay in da gutta (and I applied for mine in 1993…good times, good times)!!
The more I talk about being called an “Oreo/Sellout/Whitegirl”, the more I realize that I was NOT the only one. I too, rode horses for a spell. Knowing that I was not, in fact, the only one, would have done wonders for my self image back then. *sighs*
We got to stick together and support one another.
*sister hug*…and my coworker just teased me for having an allowance as a kid. Was I the only one? *sigh*
Uh, NO. Good grief: how else were we to get money to have a life? I mean, shout-out to the aunties, godmoms, granddads, and “Mz. So-and-So” for their special little “hits.” But Christmas and birthdays only come once a year! Please: I STILL recall when I didn’t say “thank you” when my father put out our allowance and he scooped it right back up. All $5.00 of it. OUCH.
LOL..
I did ballet, tap and played the tenor recorder.. #POW (who remembers THAT!)
i got to high school and #BOOM the resident DJ liked me.. Application accepted! 1994 was a very good year..
the POWS and BOOMS alone made my morning.
you know i was looking like “i put a #boomPOW in there?” It’s almost subconcious to me now.. LOL! girl.. i blow up twitter with those!! i told my friend i was gonna post a video of the way i say them so that when i write them out, they can TRULY get the effect!
she’s holding her breath waiting on it..
@Nick…Disaster in MD…I think I dated him once LOL
great post! I agree, especially #2. I was a smart kid and maybe because I was in gifted program and honors classes and around like minds, but I didn’t get teased, not even by my other friends not in honors classes–but nerds? yeah always got teased. *shrugs*
and this: “basically, just think of any character ever played by rashida jones.”
ABSOLUTELY! great example. I think I told one of my friends she was Quincy Jones’ daughter & Kidada’s sister once not too long ago and they were shocked.
ABSOLUTELY! great example. I think I told one of my friends she was Quincy Jones’ daughter & Kidada’s sister once not too long ago and they were shocked.
i wonder if she intentionally seeks race-neutral roles or if she’s just been typecasted
Most scholars who have studied the “acting white” phenomenon who are actually good researchers who analyze *data* conclude that it’s more a matter of personal style– black kids who listen to rock, etc are the ones more likely to be teased. In general, kids don’t pay a popularity penalty for their achievement until they super high achievers, but that holds regardless of race,
The acting white issue is more apart of a narrative designed to let people of the hook for not educating children who deserve to be educated. Why work hard or be held accountable when the kids don’t want to learn anyway?…seems convenient.
i’m strongly anti-preconceived narrative, so i approve of this message. welcome and sh*t, btw
Long time reader…thanks!
The acting white issue is more apart of a narrative designed to let people of the hook for not educating children who deserve to be educated
Excellent point… and really that is the bigger problem.
i’m all about deconstructing the master narrative that black kids don’t want to learn…
The experience of not being picked on was my life. Kids didn’t get picked on because they were smart. They got picked on because they were weak, had sweater-heads (no haircut), short pants, smelled like mustard, etc. I think these kids were super smart because they didn’t have friends and knew they’d never be super cool. Or maybe I’m wrong. What? It’s a Tuesday that is nothing more than a fake Monday and I don’t like it.
you’re wrong, but i still agree. i guess this makes us both right
Correction: many black kids do get picked on for getting good grades. This is associated with “he/she thinks they’re better” that alot of black children suffer from. This is why many downplay their smartness. I don’t know how it is in the North however in the South, many blacks are like crabs in a effin bucket. Truth. Period.
Yes I talk like a “white” girl. I put it in parenthesis because this is the most ignorant statement ever which I will elaborate on below. I am SICK sick sick of this idiotic slave thinking. Why, if you talk proper, you are acting white??? So blacks in Britain are really white then huh? The irony is growing up, I got racism from both sides. Whites weren’t crazy about me because I wasn’t white. (They tolerated me, befriended me, invited me to their parties, hell i was even nominated for homecoming queen, but the first chance they got or the first arguement I was called a black b*tch or n*gger etc) Blacks weren’t crazy about me because I don’t look 100% black and can act “white”…especially sistas.
Black women hate on me more than ANYONE…even white men and that is saying alot. Regardless of the fact that 90% of my friends are black…I have to be that outgoing black girl for women to feel comfortable around me. Now combine that with my proper and sometimes Jamaican accent, the way I dress, and my level of book knowledge…well hell they won’t even acknowledge me unless I say something to break the ice.
I look mulatto and that means I must be white. My long hair must be weave, etc My blackness has to be defined by the men I date and how much black culture I know. And growing up priviledged? FORGET IT! We should just accept each other and our differences. I don’t want us to all be the same, sound the same, look the same and do the same dances. Let’s get over this and realize that we are different from all walks of life and we can be happy for one another. Proper, educated, does not equal white.
Btw, the black person that bad mouths other blacks in the company of whites should roll up in a ball and DIE. Cause you’re an idiot if you think white people don’t see you as Black. You’ll never be white…never.
preach on
Period. com. *applause*
Soulja girl tell ‘em why you mad.
I hear you though. There are plenty of blacks that have a very narrow minded view of what they think ‘black’ should be. Its the most absurd thing I have ever heard.
Even if they accepted you, they still looked at you differently because at the end of the day, you’re not “hood” and therefore not quite black enough. I mean, you’re black, but not “hood” black which is now considered the truest form of black you can be. Which is the dumbest sh*t I’ve ever seen in my life.
I remember in high school, when certain other students found out I was Jamaican, they didnt believe it because I have lighter skin, don’t smoke weed, and I didnt walk around with linen suits every day. As if every Jamaican is black as tar and has a genetic predisposition to smoking weed.
Ignorance at its best.
You don’t wear linen suits and smoke weed? You’re not Jamaican.
Just kidding Sobo, I concur. Black=Ghetto. I even fell victim to this as I never felt black enough growing up. I remember my friends teasing me so much that I went out and rented the Mack, Cooley High, Roots (all volumes) etc and watched it all in one night. smh…sad…and I still haven’t seen the God Father. I know I know black card revoked.
, but the first chance they got or the first arguement I was called a black b*tch or n*gger etc
***sadly, this is how a lot of arguments start with black people as well
I have to be that outgoing black girl for women to feel comfortable around me
****yet again, another sad truth. Sometimes when speaking to a couple, you have to direct your convo and eye contact to the woman in order for them to feel comfortable
My long hair must be weave, etc
***I actually had someone ask me how did I get my hair to be so long and curly… I had a Coming to America moment and told her ‘juices and berries’ smh
Yeah I never talk to anyone’s man directly…never…cause I’m trying to take her man.
“I had a Coming to America moment and told her ‘juices and berries”
#DEAD hahahahahahahaha
Ya’ll can speak directly to me all day.
@Jai & SmartFoxGirl
I wish I could use Coming to America in that same context. Do you know how many times people asked me if I was a prince or joked about it? Just because I have an African name and was middle class.
I don’t know whether to shake your hand, or kiss it, or bow, or what.
I love Coming to America
You and I have spoken about this before so you know that I cosign with everything you said, so I just wanted to say hi and tell you this: I was watching a marathon of No Reservations with Anthony Bourdain yesterday, which is one of my favorite shows on TV, and I saw the episodes where he was island hopping on the Grenadines and in Jamaica, where was going to where the people are in Jamaica, not the resorts. I thought about you and my Caribbean folks on VSB and how you guys have such pride in such beautiful places. That’s all.
Lmao Hi CBG. Yeah I felt some deja vu when typing this but it’s theraputic none the less. I love No Reservations and I think I caught that episode before maybe it’s a rerun. They were showing locals loving Jamaican rum and singing a song? I think. But anyways, Hope you had a good holiday weekend.
I love that show. Watching him to recover from a hangover from drinking overproof rum was hilarious, especially when the people from Saint Vincent were cracking on him because he said he was surprised his head hadn’t exploded yet. I love how he goes to where the people are when he travels. He gets excited when the people that he meets say that their mom is cooking. I am the same way.
LOL.. you saw him in that Jamaican cave.. he d*mn near DIED!!!
i love anthony bourdain!
@Nick,
He had me rolling when he was in that cave. His voiceovers crack me up. He just kept falling. LOL
This is associated with “he/she thinks they’re better” that alot of black children suffer from.
is this a “black” thing though?
Yes and no. White kids compete to be smart more than you think.
@SFG: me heart this entire post.
Thank you so much for #2!! I was a smart AND cooI kid – big ups to the math team and the cheerleading squad – and whenever I hear about kids getting picked on just because they’re smart, I’m like, “where dey do dat at?” And I grew up in Bed Stuy so I definitely should’ve been getting my azz whupped if smart was the only criteria. I think some folks may be in denial about being socially awkward as children.
I think some folks may be in denial about being socially awkward as children
This is The Champ’s post in 140 characters or less… (and I agree.)
correctomundo…
Welp, it happened to me. Guess I live in some alternate universe or something
There is only some truth to the ‘myth’.
I can attest to there being some because I have witnessed it personally, however not in the capacity of which the myth has been exaggerated.
Background: I grew up ‘around da way”, went to a public elementary school in the projects, went to a public middle school, went to a public examination high school, all of which are about 99% people of color who are also from ‘around the way’.
Observations:
Myth: Being bullied, excessively picked on, beat up, etc over academic achievement, good behavior in class, and speaking standard english.
I have NEVER seen or heard of this, and will have to agree that perhaps individuals that are socially ackward(nerds) have been subjected to this treatment and is not unique to any culture.
Truth: I have heard the term “sell out” and “he/she be actin’ wh*te” used on very RARE occasions when academic success is coupled with ones behavior. I guess so long as you look and somewhat ‘keep it hood’ while getting straight A’s, you get cool points.
Additionally, I have observed an underlying stigma associated with high achievement, ‘good’ behavior, standard english proficiency, etc within inner city people of color to be considered as “acting 2520″. However, never in the concerning capacity to which it disrupts scholastic achievement of any individual who was on that track to begin with.
You got cataracts? lol j/k I see this all the time. If you are making A’s, you better be cool with it and down with the peeps cause you will be ostracized. The nerdy thing is true because to make good grades in school, there is a certain level of partying you will not be doing. Just keep it hood and you’re okay. LOL
I’ve just never seen relentless bullying. I have seen some ridicule.
I hear you girl. There is truth to the myth. I just believe to a certain degree, and that the extreme is not the norm.
@SmartFoxGirl: Speak on it! This was the case even when I was in undergrad (at an HBCU). Mind you, these were people who were paying for their education. From my earlier comment:
Ironically, I found out some of my classmates teased me (behind my back; some of these ladies would later become my line sisters) during freshman year because I sat on the front row and furiously took notes. Oh, they also thought I was funny because I had a big bookbag…you know, for books. What they didn’t know is that I was so pressed to do well because my parents had told me I had to find additional scholarships by the end of freshman year to cover *all* of my educational expenses (room and board), or else I was coming back to my home state to go to school. So, yeah, I was a little pressed. However, it always struck me that even for so called “smart” black folks, it was important to appear to be “cool.” Also, I found out that “smart” and “college educated” don’t always equal “intellectually curious” or “reader.”
Sometimes “we” make me sad.
I’m glad you brought this up Champ. In all my years of schooling I never remember being someone called “acting white” for excelling academically. No one ever said I was “being white” for being smart. I wonder where this came from?
My classmates said I was “acting white”. Not because of academics but because I spoke “proper english”, didn’t have a strong “black accent”, and dressed preppy. The only time I semi-blended in was when I was in private school. I went to an all boys prep or private school before high school. My first year of public school (which was also my first year of high school) people called me Carlton Banks. I got clowned because 1) I have a full African name 2) I spoke “proper” 3) dressed preppy 4) dark-skinned. So all four of those things combined made me an easy target b/c I am different. My mother is from Detroit and my Dad is from Ghana so I didn’t have the Alabama, Florida, NC, SC, Georgia, etc. roots people have here. My mother was involved in the Black Power/Black Panther movement in Oakland, Ca in the 60s and both of my parents were Pan-Africanist. I grew up with both parents in the household so I got all the Cosby Show, rich kid, and spoiled kid jokes too.
I say all of this giving TMI to explain that being different is the reason for the “acting white” accusations and not being smart. None of the things I listed have anything with being “white”yet I was accused of it.
” I have a full African name 2) I spoke “proper” 3) dressed preppy 4) dark-skinned”
So are you one of them African mumbutoo types? You got teased for that? #wheretheydothatat I would imagine that’s hot…you would have to elaborate on the dressed preppy part.
But this:
“being different is the reason for the “acting white” accusations and not being smart. None of the things I listed have anything with being “white”yet I was accused of it.”
This is GOSPEL
@SmartFoxGirl
“So are you one of them African mumbutoo types? You got teased for that? ”
Are you asking if I looked like mumbutoo? If so then no. I look nothing like him. I don’t
understand your question. Can you explain it further?
“you would have to elaborate on the
dressed preppy part.”
I wore oxford shirts and khakis with sperry topsiders. I wore brands like lacoste, polo, dockers, etc. I would wear sweaters over plaid shirts with casual shoes and khakis. I didn’t wear urban designers or college and pro team gear. Although I did have a few. When I say a few I mean I could count on one hand.
Oh so you really were Carlton. I was picturing a big, strong, black skinned man with a thick African name and tight pants that showed his butt and….*sigh* Excuse me.
@SmartFoxGirl
“Oh so you really were Carlton. I was picturing a big, strong, black skinned man with a thick African name and tight pants that showed his butt and….*sigh* Excuse me.”
You described me except for the big and strong. At 14 I was 5’5″/5’6″ with a medium build. My legs have always been big. I didn’t get big and strong until I started lifting and playing football a year later.
The tight pants weren’t cool either. I got roasted for the way my pants fit. By the end of 9th grade my wardrobe improved.
“My legs have always been big. I didn’t get big and strong until I started lifting and playing football a year later.”
Are you trying to turn me on? Cause I’m taken. Not that it’s working, but if it was working I would say “goodgawddang” to that visual…but it’s not.
no tmi bro….
keep on keepin man
*daps*
Great post. The subtle differences you highlighted point out that (often) the racial conversation is skewed toward our emotions rather than the hard facts. Most of our racial problems are economic and not unique to black americans. My best friend from high school is a white guy. In high school he was athletic but kinda shy. Basically he is the Lloyd Dobler. He is also the first male from either side of his family to earn a high school diploma. Brother and father are marines. Father is a carpenter and brother is now a cop. My friend (call him Lloyd) went to the university and has made his way to the top of a small public relations firm (VP). He is PAID. His wife stays home and he’s in the process of moving into a mini-mansion. He, along with all three of his siblings and their families, have lived in his parents neighborhood where they grew up. Since he is PAID he is moving about 1.5 miles away to a development run over with professionals (Doctors, lawyers and execs). In short, his mom has dissowned him and his father has nothing good to say about it. His entire family resents his immigrant wife (Portugual, white and Catholic like him). She might as well be sista soldier.
Early in high school, we became friends. I was the black wiz kid in math and science and had professional parents. He was smart, but wasn’t in any challenging classes. His counselors had seen his zip code (blue collar) and sold him short because they expected him to act (and learn) like other blue collar children. He was reading a childrens version of Tale of Two Cities and I flipped on him. Gave him my best “white man has got you down” speach and he had his schedule changed. By senior year we were in the same classes and he was college bound.
Reverse our races and it all makes “sense” according to what we see and hear about.
Basically I cosign all of your post…even the parts that stung.
This is why I keep reading this site. Love it.
Thanks Sula.
This topic brings me back to my junior high school days in Baton Rouge. I don’t think I was teased for being smart necessarily, but for being open to/having an interest in things outside of what is accepted in my surroundings. What I remember mostly is that my “southern” accent wasn’t as strong as others so I would be called “White Girl” by a few. I spoke pretty well as a kid largely in part because I always wanted to be a news anchor and I would practice speaking like them. (Funny, right?). But once I made it to high school, I didn’t hear “White Girl” as much because I was pretty popular and comfortable with who I was. When you are ok with yourself, people are less likely to tease you (they more likely follow-you)….which was the case.
@CNotes
“). But once I made it to high school, I didn’t hear “White Girl” as much because I was pretty popular and comfortable with who I was. When you are ok with yourself, people are less likely to tease you (they more likely follow-you)….which was the case.”
My experience was similar. Once I learned how to dress or found my niche I didn’t get talked about as much. I accepted that I was different from my background to the way I talk. I spent my first year of public school learning the ropes of going to school in the inner city even though I was from the hood. 10th to 12th grade and after I had no
problems.
Nerd here
.
I was in the middle of the road socially by 10th grade or so, but I did hear jabs every now and then.
I used to teach at a high school near my university through a grant program. The goal was to help keep programs and electives afloat in the inner city; I was the only black participant in the program. When I first met my class (it was a mixed 9th-12th class in a predominantly black school, about 80%) the discussion went something like this:
Boy in 3rd row: Hey they got black ones too! [laughter] (My university was a PWI in the boonies)
Me: Look I’m from the inner city too, grew up in the hood. I get you more than you think.
‘Nother Boy: …tryna come in talkin all white and lookin all proper. If you really from the hood, what what you do if the po po was runnin up after you?
Me: Honestly, probably run in the other direction. In my experience they rough you up first and ask questions later.
Class: She really IS from the hood!
Lol…they still said I talked white though :-/. I do admit you’re not likely to find a lot of blacks who are into some of the things I am. For example, I’m a road cyclist and regularly compete in races and marathons. I’m usually the only cyclist or one of few blacks out of 100+ racers. It gets lonely
lol.
I just hope you dont act like you own the lane while biking. Bikers always go mad slow instead of sliding that ish to the side so a car can get by….
Cant sue me if i hit ya hard enough.jk
“Cant sue me if i hit ya hard enough.jk”
BWAHAHAHA! How delightfully evil.
Cant sue me if i hit ya hard enough.jk
That is terrible but incredibly funny. LMAO
Any cyclist who refuses to stay to the far right is asking to become a skid mark. Several streets and roads where I live have bike lanes; I use those or keep to the right.
The crazy ones are those messengers, they don’t care about anything, lol.
I wish I lived in a more bike friendly town… Le Sigh. I usually have to hike the bike up to a park or something to ride… Share the road y’all!!!
It’s becoming that way–people complained! Lol…I live in Cleveland, Ohio, so it’s not quite a town, but northwest Ohio is almost ALL towns and flat. Basically great for “regular” riding, but to train on hills I had to go elsewhere :-/.
I’m usually the only cyclist or one of few blacks out of 100+ racers.
But we are only 12% of the population though… What do you expect?
For the record, I am also a road cyclist… actually a triathlete, and the ratio to me is more than fair.
I never said anything wasn’t fair or that I expect anything, it’s an observation. I just don’t see too many of us in my neck of the woods who race (I’m from northeast Ohio but also race in northwest Ohio). Also, we may be 12 percent of the population, but someone who isn’t from this country wouldn’t be able to tell from watching ESPN. #justsayin
Where do you race? I’m hoping to get into duathlons next year.
I race in Houston mostly. Will participate in a couple of races in Austin next year. They have the Ironman going on in my neck of the woods, but lord knows I am not even close to being ready for that.
We have to admit that road cycling is an expensive sport. Very expensive… and most urban dwellings are not designed for roadies (Share the road y’all!!!
) … All of those things may contribute to make it a difficult sport to take up as a young kid growing up…
I’d love to race in Houston
.
And yes, road cycling is super expensive. I could have put a down payment on a car or bought a nice used one with the money I saved for my road bike. :-/ Another cyclist I know is having neighborhood kids earn road bikes and plans to train those who are interested in riding as well. If they go to school, get good grades, ect…they eventually get a bike. He’s a wealthy guy and I’m glad he’s giving back in that way.
Good subject today, Champ. You and Panama have been swinging for the fences lately. As you can tell by my screenname, you can probably guess that I got picked on as kid, and you would be right. My mom is an English teacher, and even though my dad didn’t go to college, but he was an A student in high school, so getting good grades was a must in my family. My mom was teaching me words as a baby and I was the first kid in my kindergarten class to learn the words they tell you to take home. Getting glasses in the third class is a day that will live in infamy because it was during the rise of Steve Urkel. The pretty girls would only flirt with me to help them on tests and boy did I fall for it. Junior high was bad for because I was probably the worst school in the city and when I became the student of the month in the 7th grade because of my grades, my bus rides became very long until I went to high school. I went to a magnet high school for engineering so everyone was pretty smart so being picked on for being smart wasn’t a problem. Being picked on for being cultured was. I was the tall black dude that was into anime, comic books, and hung out with Asian kids. There weren’t a lot of white kids at my high school, but being different was grounds for “acting white”. My mom and older sister are my biggest influences and they told me that no matter where you come from, you can being interested and learn about anything you want to. My sister listened to MJ, hip hop, Sting and Duran Duran when I was a kid so she was the one that told me always keep an open mind about music. My mom always taught in the hood because she knew that kids in those areas needed a positive influence. Because of that, I grew going to symphonies, operas, plays, and museums with my mom and her students and now, I thoroughly enjoy all of those cultural events.
I say all of that say this: In my opinion, being cultured and different in the black community will get the “acting white” label than being educated and speaking properly. If you are a vegetarian, you are acting white. If you go to a museum to actually look at artwork, you are acting white. If you listen to Led Zeppelin, Eric Clapton or Pink Floyd, you are acting white (not knowing that British white guitarists were influenced by Black southern blues guitarists of the 20s and 30s) Black people can’t like those things just to like them, they have to do it because white people do it, which is a very stupid way of thinking and will keep black people as a whole from ever progressing with kind of mentality. Good topic, Champ. Love everyone’s individual prospective on this.
YOU LIKE ANIME TOO (do you like Naruto???)
@SFG…I will say it again… you did good grabbing CBG when you did!
I love everything. My sister raised me and her children on anime. Toonami on Cartoon Network was a godsend for me in college. l like Naruto. That’s my nephew’s favorite. I love anything Gundam (actually pretty much anything with giant robots), Cowboy Bebop, Dragonball and Dragonball ZTrigun, Outlaw Star, Akira, Samurai 7, I could on and on. I was into this stuff before it got really popular thanks to my sister.
Early bird catches the worm…but I can share
Hell naw, I take that back.-_o…you better look at me when talkin to him.
lmfao @ “look at me when talkin’ to him.”
SmartFoxGirl, girrrrrrl…that made my day.
RFLMFAO…I know the routine…
besides…I am e-stalking DG (I dont know if he approves, but he has no sayso in the matter
)
You and his interactions are cute btw…he wants ya
@CBG
“which is a very stupid way of thinking and will keep black people as a whole from ever progressing with kind of mentality. ”
…and that’s the point.
It’s out of fear and this I believe was drivin into us from slavery days. Jim Crow is alive and well. Plus many of us deep down “hate” the white man; so full of resentment that to like his likes is to be disloyal to the black community. We are free my people…we are free.
I went to magnet school for spanish. thing was, it was in the hood so there was a lot of eye-opening experiences on the way to Spanish IV..
“If you listen to Led Zeppelin, Eric Clapton or Pink Floyd, you are acting white (not knowing that British white guitarists were influenced by Black southern blues guitarists of the 20s and 30s) Black people can’t like those things just to like them, they have to do it because white people do it, which is a very stupid way of thinking and will keep black people as a whole from ever progressing with kind of mentality.”
Um, guess what? I LOVE YOU.
Gahtdayum, you are fabulous.
Aww, thanks, Cheeks. Love you, too. It’s good to know that I wasn’t the only one that had some of the same experiences I did as a kid. Thank God I gained some weight or I would be in trouble right now.
I love you more
*Hands SFG a e-bouquet of yellow roses*
I know you do, darlin’.
lmao…a MESS.
I concur with Cheekie!
being cultured and different in the black community will get the “acting white” label than being educated and speaking properly
Like James mentionned upthread, this is true for EVERY single community… The human race in general doesn’t seem very receptive to difference and/or change… So people no matter which neighborhood or ethnicity they are from will get teased. It’s a given.
One of my best friend is Indian (dot), she is Ozzy Osbourne most dedicated fan and made me trek down once to an Ozzyfest… She is that dedicated. She is an outlier amongst her friends and it might bring some snide comments here and there…. like that dude she dated who stated that she was and I quote “too americanized and wouldn’t make a good Indian wife”…. She was good enough to date but not to marry… *shrugs*. All of that to say that this phenomenon is not an isolated case as it is made to be in the media… And people repeating this meme takes the eyes off the real problems: why are those kids underachieving? And no it’s not because they are bullied into not achieving… It’s because of all those reasons WestIndianArchie mentioned upthread… And that’s what we all collectively should be looking at, instead of reminiscing on how a sole comment affected us in 3rd grade or something…
@CBG: “If you go to a museum to actually look at artwork, you are acting white”
I LOVED seeing people of ALL colors/backgrounds at the Art Institute of Chicago. Maybe it’s more accessible than museums in tourists home cities, but with all the events I do in venues around town..i RARELY see black faces in them.
This could be a economics thing and not just cultural, but we’d be naive to say they arent connected.
Thank you so much for this! I’ve has this conversation with people more times than I care to remember. During my freshman year at Hampton I think we had this conversation every other day. But when I think about it, the conversation was more along the lines of finally having the opportunity to not be THE Black kid in class and finally seeing that being a smart Black kid does not make you the exception, but in some cases the rule. Anyway, onto my tale of woe…
When I initially moved to the place where I would end up completing middle and high school, I got the full “acting white” treatment. On the daily I was the recipient of comments such as: “You play soccer? You do know Black people don’t play soccer, right?”, “You talk white”, “You just think you’re better than us.”, and “You want to be white.” This ended quite abruptly when people finally got to know me and found that I was funny and fun to be around.
These comments came from both whites and Blacks and I think that the basis of the comments were mostly a result of archaic notions of what it means to be white or Black from both groups. I do not believe I was teased because I was smart. Most of those who teased me had no idea how smart I was; all they knew was that I was the new kid, I lived in Germany for 2 years prior to moving to the Eastern Shore of MD and missed out on two years worth of popular culture and related references (some of that has persisted to this day: I thought my husband was going to begin divorce proceedings when I mentioned that I had not committed to memory the episode of the Cosby Show where Denise made Theo the jacked up Gordon Gartrelle shirt) I was super tall and awkward towards the end of elementary school, and I read books that most kids my age had no interest in reading. True Story: I actually got teased and accused of acting white for reading The Autobiography of Malcolm X in the 5th grade!
Anyway, most of the things I was teased for ended up being things that worked out for me in the end. The same people who had teased me and questioned my Blackness voted me both Most Likely to Succeed and Best Sense of Humor in HS. I am also a well-rounded adult who can travel in a number of circles and, yes I do Code Switch like a sho nuff G.
I think it is all a matter of perspective. As was said upthread, a lot of people who feel as though they were teased solely because they were smart or did well in school may be served well to be a bit more introspective and see if there was perhaps anything else that may have led to that teasing. It may not even be anything about you, it could (and typically is when discussing teasing) all about the individual doing the teasing.
I’m about 100% most of what I wrote above makes very little sense so I’m not even going to re-read my post and just hope for the best.
a lot of people who feel as though they were teased solely because they were smart or did well in school may be served well to be a bit more introspective and see if there was perhaps anything else that may have led to that teasing
I need more people to understand this!!!! And stop spreading this crazy meme!
During my freshman year at Hampton
(whispers…’the REAL HU’)
Uh, Jai????!!!!
Imma need you to retract that straight up FALSEHOOD. A whispered lie? Still a lie!
P
Aww, you went to the Institute, that’s cute LOL.
*sips from Howard Alumni mug*
*Mecca-Mugging Jai … in love: L.O.V.E.*
It happens and it happens a lot. if it doesn’t where you’ve been, thats great. truly wonderful. but in many places black people associate certain things with whiteness and any deviation from the black norm, as they imagine it, is cause for ostracism and bullying.
no offense, champie, but i have a hard time taking anything you say about race seriously since you seem to believe overt racism doesnt really exist (i dont remember in which previous post you wrote about this).
that said, perhaps this “acting white” phenomenon is a generational thing?? and things have sort of shifted a bit, and is looked at differently. my brother and his friends have told numerous stories about being picked on for “acting white” because they got good grades, played organized baseball (instead of football/bball), and spoke properly. outside of school they still did everything other kids in the hood did and had no problem making friends. yet at school and in certain circles, they were outcasts.
ive had a similar experience in school (mostly before i hit HS). though it was rare i was literally accused of “acting white”, i did receive “other” status because i was an academic over-achiever. which also meant i had to work hard at being in the in-crowd. and while i got teased for being a “nerd” (meaning “straight A student”/proper sounding, and not nerdy looking/acting–i made sure of that), i also got teased for having curly/wavy hair, light skin, a straight and pointed nose, etc. yet, i wasnt the ONLY girl who looked like me in school. im from socal, mixties are everywhere. plenty of girls with similar hair, skin color and facial features–but they didnt get teased. i, on the other hand, stood out. and it wasn’t until i dummy-ed it down, spoke (comfortably) in slang or got caught hangin with “cool” ppl outside of school that my teasing classmates would say “oh, so you’re not just a book worm”. i guess in that regard they had to believe that i wasnt trying to be different (better) than them by being a smarty. and the same was true for other smart black kids. as long as they proved themselves to be “down” they were accepted, though still often playfully teased for being in advanced classes. hell, even my non-black friends would tease me about being “ghetto” if i had a “sista girl” moment or “acted black” (rolled my neck, spoke in slang, sang along to my fave hip hop tune, etc).<~~smmfh this led to a lot of heated discussions about race, i had to school those fools
so, all that to say, it’s likely that smart black kids aren’t necessarily looked down upon and accused of “being white” because they are, in fact, smart or over-achievers (which at one point may have been considered “white” more so than it is now days). but depending on where you go to school and where you’re from, being smart and receiving academic accolades causes kids to stand out. and kids that stand out are often easy targets for scrutiny and shame.
“but depending on where you go to school and where you’re from, being smart and receiving academic accolades causes kids to stand out. and kids that stand out are often easy targets for scrutiny and shame.”
This sums it up! Gemmie, you rock hard. Dewey Cox.
Conformity is a huge aspect of school and standing out is RARELY celebrated. Only if you stand-out in an “accepted” way (such as “best dressed”) are you immune to the scrutiny.
exactly! it all comes back to what is perceived as cool. and what certain kids deem as praise worthy. and this will change depending on where you are. and potentially what era. im sure its less prevalent now than it was 20yrs ago.
and just because ppl like champ or humble_one havent experienced the “acting white” meme, doesnt mean these instances are exceptions to the rules, or isolated incidents. hell, ive witnessed recently witnessed this happen. even if this is a rare occurrence, it doesnt make it any less sad or unworthy of addressing.
“even if this is a rare occurrence, it doesnt make it any less sad or unworthy of addressing.”
*nods enthusiastically*
I was hoping to be able to co-sign somebody else’s comments, but got lazy at around #51 (not that I don’t agree with y’all, I just didn’t find anything that totally encapsulated my thought).
I can’t clearly remember people in my peergroup calling me white, but I remember my mother and a couple other family members pullin’ that s***. Mind you, these people didn’t KNOW me; I wasn’t raised around them (mom included). I guess I should also mention that, until after I finished undergrad and began living my dreams, in my family, there was no real premium put on learning. You know the joke Chris Rock made about gettin’ more respect comin’ out of jail than out of college? Well, that s*** wasn’t so funny when I returned home and realized that it wasn’t just stage fodder.
(30 minutes later)
I had to eliminate a majority of my rant because that ish was too damn long, and because I had an epiphany: I wasn’t called white because I wanted to be smart, I was called white because my relatives are f***** stupid.
“You know the joke Chris Rock made about gettin’ more respect comin’ out of jail than out of college? Well, that s*** wasn’t so funny when I returned home and realized that it wasn’t just stage fodder.”
I think this is similar to the whole aspect of “poor-ing down” instead of “dumb-ing down”. This spreads across racial lines, but I’ve noticed over the years (especially after the big recession), it’s become “cool” to be “poor”. Not poor in the sense that you can’t afford shelter, but poor in the sense that if you say you can’t afford to eat out for lunch everyday, folks deem you more relatable/likeable. I’ve seen folks get side-eyes just for mentioning they spent a bit more than normal for some clothes whereas, at another time or in another place, they would be cooed over. And being thrifty has become a trend. It’s interesting, to say the least…
If I weren’t the thriftiest summuma summuma anyone’d every met, (pre- and post-recession) I’d probably agree, but I can’t.
Across the racial spectrum, I understand the have-not’s attitudes about book-learnin’, but could we not say that because –as a group– blacks are at the bottom of the socio-economic food chain, and our more…uh….lost brethren/sistren/peopleren (sorry, had to do it)tend to associate agile existences and academia with being white?
two things:
1. after reading through the comments, i think many of us aren’t making the distinction between teasing/getting picked on (which happens to everybody) and actual intra-racial bullying (which is assumed to happen to most “smart” black kids). basically, remembering that some idiot told you that you “talk like a white girl” in 6th grade isn’t in the same ballpark as getting harassed and beat up because you have a bookbag.
2. like i mentioned upthread, there seems to be a difference between the experiences of the vss’s and the vsb’s. basically, the vsb’s seem to consider this issue to be much less of a problem than the vss’s do.
anybody have any theories as to why?
“basically, remembering that some idiot told you that you “talk like a white girl” in 6th grade isn’t in the same ballpark as getting harassed and beat up because you have a bookbag. ”
It ain’t the same, but I have to argue that the extreme cases such as the lateral actually ain’t even discussed as much as the former. You’re saying the extreme cases don’t happen as much as publicly portrayed, but actually most people usually talk about the former not the latter. The latter is usually glorified and exaggerated in movies, but that’s about it. I don’t actually much complaint in society about the exaggerated cases, but I DO hear a lot about the the routine teasings, etc.
“like i mentioned upthread, there seems to be a difference between the experiences of the vss’s and the vsb’s. basically, the vsb’s seem to consider this issue to be much less of a problem than the vss’s do.
anybody have any theories as to why?”
We sensitive?
great minds@ Cheekie!
*chest bump*
*chest bump*
Smashin’ the girls sounds painful. Maybe y’all should settle for a terrorist fist bump, instead.
“Smashin’ the girls sounds painful.”
I’mma thug, though…
I guess I could over think the issue and state that it holds some ounce of merit for women (looking back) because when we were kids, it was always taught to be a negative thing (acting white, speaking proper, getting good grades) but acting ignant was acceptable. While you have some in 2520 america that believe us kneegrows will never amount to anything, we ensue this mindset by perpetuating this belief amongst our own (2520 is holding you back, we will never be this and/or that, etc) .We wanted to fit in, be accepted, without conforming to the stereotypical Hillary Banks, (et.al) of the world. If you grow up in an environment where you are the minority amongst your peers (who look like you) but were treated like crap, it either gives you a complex or make you stronger and appreciate your lack of ignancity.
I can’t delve any deeper because I am recouping from da 4th (and fif)
in other words…us vss’s are sensitive and shyt.
There may seem to be a gender difference because of the number of folks, here, representing both genders. Hasn’t it been remarked that more members are female than male? Also, statistically, aren’t there more women degree-earning black women than there are men?
Please, don’t misunderstand me. I don’t mean to say that going to college makes anyone inherently smart. Mr. Wendall said it best: “Blacks spend all that money on big colleges/Still most of [us] come out confused.”; and I do believe some folks DO want to be white (even some of us who think we’re really down for the cause). However, for me at least, college seemed to be a place where flexibility in thinking was required (even if not by certain professors or dumba** classmates).
***Also, I should add, that I KNOW you don’t have to spend a fortune to get some learnin’. So, if you don’t have a degree, PLEASE don’t stone me.***
I guess what I’m trying to say is that in (some/too many) black cirlces there’s a perception that if a black person in that black circle isn’t as inflexible as the others, then that person is a mutant. Now, just because every fiber of your being doesn’t ooze “negative black stereotype” (and, again, in my neck of the woods, being black is about being the stereotype), that’s no reason to be ostracized, and whether or not we want to accept it, it happens. I think it happens more (even if ostensibly so) with the VSS’s because we outnumber the penis people.
Oh yeah, and just because you don’t get jumped in the yard for carrying home books doesn’t make being marginalized painless, especially when the learning that you do is done –in part– in the name of uplifting the same people puttin’ their feet on your neck. (Something akin to [Uncle] Tom DuBois situation in the R. Kelly episode of The Boondocks.)
(There’s something I’m leaving out, and i can’t put my finger on it.)
you dont necessarily state that kids have to be BEAT DOWN to follow this. you routinely say “routinely picked on”. verbal abuse and the act of casting out of social networks are what i’d consider being “picked on” as well as physical bullying.
hell, i could argue that physical bullying don’t exist, or it is an exception to the rule, since it meets your criteria–ive NEVER seen it happen. perhaps to some degree i know first hand that my HS’s rival (reggie bush’s HS) used to have race riots all the time, lots of violence went down before, during and after school. but this wasnt as much bullying as it was all out hate wars. nonetheless, ive NEVER in my entire life seen a kid literally beat down for ANY reason. but i have seen plenty of kids belittled, disrespected, called names, and verbally tortured for numbers of reasons.
therefore i think non-physical bullying is really something to focus on. besides the fact that most kids turn out alright, since most kids are bullied and picked on at some point in their lives anyway. but to dismiss this idea that kids aren’t being beat up because they “act white” is silly. because as far as im concerned, kids getting their a$$ kicked for any reason is more rare than black squirrels.
remembering that some idiot told you that you “talk like a white girl” in 6th grade isn’t in the same ballpark as getting harassed and beat up because you have a bookbag.
Bingo!!!
I have a theory for your second question but it’s not a politically correct one, and I am still in my post week-end daze and don’t want to ruin it…
and as far as a gender bias? i dont think there is one. based on the ppl i know who claim to have had this experience.
again, ive heard numerous stories from my brother and his male friends about being harassed for “acting white” by getting good grades, speaking properly and actually taking their books home to study (my brother hid his in his baseball bag to walk home from school). mind you, my bro is 18yrs older than me.
so idk. i think the sampling here at vsb is skewed since clearly there are more vss’s than the vsb’s.
I’m somewhat confused by this topic. It supposedly addresses the “acting white” myth, but then you seem to say that the only thing included in said myth is being smart. Acting White, according to MANY people I’ve come across, isn’t JUST about being smart. When people say someone is “acting White”, they’re talking about your mannerisms, style of dress, cultural knowledge, athletic ability, musical talent, personal interests, etc. At least that’s how it was where I was growing up. No, people aren’t generally picked on for being smart or a high-achiever because those things are assets in school and only truly ignorant people would belittle someone for those traits. But “acting White” seems to place more specific, stereotype-driven limits on Black identity.
For number 1: In my opinion, the reason why kids are more likely to criticize you verbally is because they know that if they hit you, they would likely be in trouble, especially if the person they are bullying did not hit them back. In my experience, I was never physically harmed but I was routinely criticized for how I talked. Nowadays, kids know not to harm others physically, but because of that they resort to verbal insults and relentless criticism.
i won’t go into too much detail about how exactly “doing your absolute best to rid yourself of any trace of black culture” is defined, but i will say that its definition is somewhat similar to porn’s: you know it when you see it.
““““““““““““““““““““““““““““““““““““`
for the sake of the debate, you should, in my opinion have provided some details..i mean its kind of pedestrian to say ”oh you’ll know when you see it”
I will take this topic a step further and say that the myth carries over to relationships as well.
What I’m about to say may be met with strong resistance, but I will say it anyway, ’cause I’m just that dude.
During my early to mid 20′s, I noticed that being college educated wasn’t the most desireable attribute in the dating game among sistahs, Perhaps that may be a geographical and age related phenomenon. Regardless, during those years, I had to almost hide the fact that I had gone to college from many women because from what I gathered, the general perception was college degree & good job = lame/boring @ss corporate ninja.
Apparently, a college degree generally was associated with a lack of street credibility which at the time, was on the rise as one of the attributes sistahs were looking for in a man(even college educated sistahs). I intentionally avoided conversations that had anything to do with school so they wouldn’t ask.
If you did have a degree and worked in a corporate environment, you couldnt be ALL the way corporate. Meaning, at home, you had to have several fitteds, fatigues, hoodies, and some timbs in your closet.
I cant begin to count the amount of times after disclosing I had a degree, I was asked how I dressed outside of work. What type of brother I was.
There were countless times where I would meet women, and things were going fine, up until they found out I had a degree. At that point, the interest on their part faltered. It got so bad, that I had to purposefully pepper my language with slang to offsett the ‘goodie goodie non adventurous” perception associated with that level of success. So I begin saying things like, yeah, I got a degree, but you know school was just my hustle. Or, “Yeah, I work for insert fortune 500 company here, but thats just my day hustle. That way, in their eyes, I maintained some street savvyness and didn’t convert all the way over to prestine 2520 land. Male Blackness was kept intact by holding on to some level of hoodness in addition walking the halls of academia. I cant be alone on this.
I will now wait for the onslaught of boos, hisses and tomatoes to commence.
Stop dating hoodrats.
@Jen
Predictable response. And not suprisingly dismissive as well.
I was going to include the following disclaimer i my post, but in the interest of length, I excluded it.
Anyway here goes:
I only date bl@ck women, and 99.99% of them are college educated and career women with varying backgrounds.
The other 0.01% can be classified as “hoodrats”. Hey, what can I say, “hoodrats” need love too. Plus thats my way of giving back to the community.
But seriously, surprisingly, ‘the hoodrats’ were the ones that loved the fact I had a degree. Go figure.
Perhaps I should have clarified what I meant when I said “hoodrat.” Any woman who glorifies a culture of poverty is a hoodrat. The women you are dating are, by definition, hoodrats. Stop dating them.
But that would mean I would have to stop dating black women all together.
Just joking.
Anyway, I dont see much of that any longer because that was when I was in my early and mid 20′s. Its no longer the case now, as women within the 28+ age range have wisened up and realize there is life stability with a degree holding brother.
i was having this conversation with a friend of mine the other night.
i think this level of “dumbing it down” is so upsetting. i’m actually more p*ssed at the broads that would think that “school as my hustle” is an appropriate qualification for a future man..
why is it such a big deal.. i have a theory on this, but i’m not gonna get into it..
it’s almost like they’re saying, “i’d rather you run the streets than have had motivation and gone to school” #WDDDA!?
i go as far as to say this mentality is on par with the people that have Hummers and Directv while living in the projects..
i wish some minds would get some “think right..”
ok.. i’m gone to take my nap..
oh.. and Disaster in Maryland is updated!
@Mr. SoBo
I have to cosign this. The hoodrats never had a problem with a dude being in school or whatever. Ironically it was the college girls that gave the hard time. Either I was too street or I was perceived as a bookworm. I find that women at that time were quick to throw you in a box.
Glad to know I’m not alone on this. My friends and I were perpelexed.
I came out of college thinking I would be the ideal choice for my black women. Where having a degree and a legal career were attractive qualities. Apparently my thinking was old fashioned. I suffered from a 1950′s state of mind.
It became clear to me that in the 2000′s when it came to dating, a criminal rap sheet was worth more than college diploma.
That’s because you’ve been misapplying this “hoodrat” label. A woman who would denigrate a man for seeking to better himself just ain’t about sh!t.
Why someone would throw a disparaging label on a woman who values education but may not have had the opportunity to pursue it before they would throw the label on a woman who has been presented every opportunity for class/social mobility and rejected it is beyond me.
I’m not misapplying anything.
Lets not convolute the term “hoodrat”, which might I add, a term you introduced to the convo.
A “Hoodrat” has nothing to do with ones educational level or socioeconomic status. I don’t consider Jenny from the block to be a hoodrat because she didnt go to college. For the same reason, I dont consider Tyrone from the block a n*gga because he didnt go to college. That would be asinine.
A hoodrat is a classless chick that doesnt value anything of substance and instead glorifies dumb n*gga sh*t. Lets keep it simple.
“..a woman who has been presented every opportunity for class/social mobility and rejected it…” would definitely fall into the category of hoodrat.
“A woman who would denigrate a man for seeking to better himself just ain’t about sh!t. ”
I agree wholeheartedly.
Humble, you are my bro and we have discussed this at length.
This assessment, I just don’t know… I can’t even imagine a world where girls purposefully do NOT date a person with degrees. As in:
Boy: “Hey I have a degree in so and so”
Girl: “Ok sorry, only date non-degreed boys, bye!”…
Are you really telling me this scenario plays out?? Like where? I will need youtube proof or something. I just can’t wrap my brains around it.
In other words, as much as I love you bro, you need a boatload of more people on this one.
@Mr SoBo
When I go to my home state/old neighborhood and hang out with some of my childhood friends. I typically don’t discuss my degrees or what I do for a living because it either leaves a blank look on their faces or forces them to explain why they did not go to college. (Which makes me feel awful; and I in turn describe school/work as my “hustle” just as you mentioned).
To the issue of some college educated women even wanting a guy with “street cred” (speaking on my behalf only…really): I think its more of a balance that some of us are seeking with regards to being corporate/professional and having a connection to urban culture. Some ladies, (like in my case) grew up in lower middle class or mostly blue collar neighborhoods with a very small percentage of college graduates present. When we make the transition into the professional world and being “corporate” is added to our make up; it can sometimes make us unicorns. So when we think of an ideal man for us who shares similarities to who we are (past and present), we can sometimes seek the same “unicorn”; which is difficult to run across.
@Cnotes
“…I think its more of a balance that some of us are seeking…”
Precisely, and I had concluded that it was a balance these women were seeking.
But it still always amazed me to see -at times- the college graduate girl with the in and out of jail petty criminal. Perhaps its the perception of excitement and danger that is the lure..coupled with the idea that street savvy individuals are better protectors.
“But it still always amazed me to see -at times- the college graduate girl with the in and out of jail petty criminal.”
This is not balance. This is pathology.
@jen
“This is not balance. This is pathology.”
I couldnt agree more. I like your thinking. No nonsense, call it how you see it. No sugar coating, sensitivities aside in the name of sensibilities.
Let’s do lunch.
ha.
Let’s.
VSB: Bringing people together since 1927.
I love it.
@Sobo
” I noticed that being college educated wasn’t the most desireable attribute in the dating game among sistahs”
This is only true in chickenheadville
Agreed.
Well “chickenheadville” must be a pretty large place.
Sometimes we are in a place for so long, it seems to be that ( ) big….
Chickenheadville is as big as its residents and residents seekers make it.
@Sula
LMBO! that was priceless
@Sula.
“Chickenheadville is as big as its residents and residents seekers make it.”
Real talk. For the same reason black women say a good black man is hard to find, men have the same problem with black women. Not every black woman is a queen. Sorry, but chickenheads outnumber the queens. So, much like ya’ll having to weed through the abundance of prison/g@y/dead men to get to the good ones, we have to wade through the abundant waters of Hoodrat Valley and Chickenheadville to find our queens as well. Don’t get it twisted.
For the same reason black women say a good black man is hard to find
See, I don’t believe that either… Good black men are not hard to find… They are all over the place and alive and well. I don’t generally buy into things like this… I go with my personal experience and my life in general… and according to both, interesting (I prefer that to “good” too generic…) black men are not hard to find… at all.
But I’m glad you are done wading through Chickenheadville and HoodratLand (sounds painful…
).
But I do agree that not everybody is for everybody else… Once we figure out who is “right” for us, the rest becomes child play (read Hoodratland magically transforms in Queensdom).
Actually, I dont buy into that belief either. However, I do get sick and tired of hearing women moaning and groaning about good black men not existing and how we as black men have nothing but the creme of the crop to choose from. Which is why I felt compelled to state that men dont have it easy either(albeit I did purposefully exaggerate out of frustration with that line of thinking).
On another note, Sula, why everytime I look at your avatar, I see a pair of bre@sts. Would I fail the psych analysis from my interpretation of that image?
@Mr. Sobo,
On another note, Sula, why everytime I look at your avatar, I see a pair of bre@sts. Would I fail the psych analysis from my interpretation of that image?
Get ya head out of the gutter, young man!
Yup… you’ve definitely failed the psych analysis as this is an actual Sankofa bird… An Adinkra symbol from the Akan people in West Africa (moreso the Ashante)…
But now that I look at it (sideways), i can kinda, sorta see it looking like breasts… *smh lol*
To steal a line from PJ (or maybe Champ)
I’m not saying you’re a liar, I just don’t believe you. You need more people.
@MrSoBo: no boos, hisses or tomatoes (tomatoes are hexpensive these days!).
i dont know how old you are now, but the thing that stood out for me was in your 20′s.
we are ALL stupid in our 20′s. who you were checking for back then, isn’t the same as who you might be checking for now.
that being said. this post makes me sad. because it reinforced the man rant of: all good girls just want bad boys.
couldn’t be farther (further?) from the truth.
I came out of VSB retirement to say that this post is the truth. If you are one of those bitter Black people who swear to God, the white man and anybody else who will listen to you that you were picked on as a kid for being smart, listen to me and listen to me well: YOU WERE NOT PICKED ON FOR BEING INTELLIGENT, YOU WERE PICKED ON FOR BEING A FIGURINE-COLLECTING MAGIC-PLAYING ASPIE F*CK!NG NERD.
Not always true. Not at all.
That’s true.
Sometimes it was because you were fat, you were cross-eyed, you were tall and wore highwater jeans or you were so far removed from the linguistic elements of Black culture that you couldn’t even properly code switch. But I assure you, little Black kids weren’t running down anybody in anybody’s ghetto because they were intelligent. Nobody–nobody–likes a dummy.
Well, I grew up in a small-ish town in the south; we didn’t really have ghettos per se. I didn’t use slang because my mom would beat the bejeesus out of me when I didn’t use “proper” English. I wasn’t overweight, cross-eyed, didn’t wear highwaters, or anything like that. Sometimes, black kids get picked on for being perceived as “talking white” among other things. Not all of us have/had the same experiences. Yours wasn’t mine. I clearly remember what happened.
Precisely.
What you’re describing sounds like classic type-A assholery to me, honestly. Think about if someone uses a word you don’t know. It can be uncomfortable, right? Think about that situation if you’re a KID. It’s not necessarily “Oh, this person is using words I don’t know might just be a coincidence. I’m sure he’s not trying to make me feel dumb.” If it happens, kids can feel threatened. If kids feel threatened, they react. It goes back to the whole insecurity thing. A lot of times, that reaction is retaliation to something that wasn’t meant to be insulting in a first place. Sometimes kids show off. But if a kid just talks like that, uses different words/doesn’t know to dumb it down (which, honestly, is what has to happen in some cases), then the lesson to code switch is getting picked on, not some inherent knowledge that black people have; you aren’t born with that, and learning it can be a tough lesson sometimes, even if you aren’t “fat” or “cross-eyed” or anything like that.
This is my thing, though. Why does code-switching imply that you’re in touch with your blackness? It’s not something all black people do. My parents, both of whom are black, spoke “proper” English at home. And I got in trouble for not speaking correctly. Most of the folks in my mother’s extended family (aunts, uncles, cousins) spoke “standard” English. I guess since the majority of the black people I was around most often spoke that way, I didn’t realize I needed to change the way I speak. So, I guess what I’m saying is that for some black folk, speaking “standard” or “proper” English = talking white or trying to be white. For some, it didn’t.
@TMA – Most Black Americans who speak proper English also codeswitch. It’s just a cultural reality. Yours was a minority experience. At some point, your family was probably composed of codeswitchers, too. I dunno why that changed–perhaps they saw no value in maintaining the Black dialect–but most Black families did not go that route.
Honestly, I got put on behind my little accent, too. But even though that was so, I regularly used Black language patterns around other Black people, not by force, but naturally. Working with Black businesses and in Black professional organizations, I’ve seen the same thing very prominently: well-educated Black people using Black language forms around other Black people. It is just social signaling–a way to tell people that they are in a safe place and may let their guard down. To this day, I have great difficulty trusting Black Americans who never allow themselves to slip into Black English around other Black people.
And what is so interesting is that I have noticed that these individuals, who don’t know how to or choose not to codeswitch, uniformly remain at the periphery of both Black and white society. It is very difficult to accept these people as genuine. For that reason, I think that Black people who shield their children from codeswitching and Black English do their children a social disservice.
But if a black person has always spoken proper English, why does he/she need to codeswitch? Why does that suddenly make him/her “less” black if he/she speaks/has always spoken proper English?
@Jen:
As I said before, you had your experience, and I had mine. I tend to trust people based upon their actions after I get to know them. I guess I remember all too well what it’s liked to be judged based upon superficialities.
Judging people after you get to know them sounds like a grand waste of time and a fantastic way to be robbed at gunpoint at the ATM. lol
Social markers exist for a reason.
@Jen:
Yes, it’s much better just categorize based on race, gender, dialect spoken, employment status, educational level, marriage status, political affiliation, hairstyle, and clothing. That’s worked really well for black folks!
Let’s just agree to disagree.
Let’s. Your naivete is suffocating.
@Jen: I like to think of it as not having a heart that is two sizes too small.
I wasn’t going to reply and just comment on all my people’s posts. I have nothing to add that hasn’t already been said, so I’ll share a little story..
Some time ago, a friend of mine and I went to the house of someone she had met at a reggae party.. He had two other friends at the house and being the good friend I am, I entertained them while she went in the other room and kissed, groped, had monkey s*x.. I don’t know..
These men were “fresh from yahd” and for no other reason than I don’t know how to describe them, were real “Butus” (SFG, you know what i mean!)
They heard my speech and proceeded to say something along the lines of “why are you tryin gto conform to the ways of the white man(!) in order to make it in America?” etc etc.. and a whole bunch of “fight the power, black revolutionary” talk..
i kindly looked at them.. (I can be a real wretch when i want to..) and so politely said, “how DARE you suggest that my knowledge of the queen’s english would mean that I am trying to pander to white people. You’re young, so i won’t tell you how idiotic you sound as well as the level to which you sound like an a** for suggesting that you’re somehow more “black” than i am because no english speaking person can understand what you’re saying. you sound like a reject and i would rather open my mouth and dispel all myth than open your mouth and prove them. i despise your way of thinking..
these are the same dudes that also had a problem with my nickname ACTUALLY being “Nick”.. “suppose we’re on the phone and my man asks who i’m speaking with and i say “nick”.. he’s going to think i’m talkin to a man..”
i already saw the mentality in that statement right there..
“aww sweetie, you and i will NEVER be on the phone together. so you won’t run into that problem..”
i know that there are idiots out there.. i don’t know why it still shocks me when i run into one..
aww sweetie, you and i will NEVER be on the phone together. so you won’t run into that problem..”
LOL…it’s almost cute (yet sad) that he thought he had a chance
Work is killing me today, but @Nick…I swear I just spit out my tea at this right here..“Butus”…….SERIOUSLY DEAD….back to the electronic plantation for me, but THANKS for the LAUGH******toodles
@Nick
*in my great nani’s voice*…”is wah dem boogoo yagaa a chat bout? dem need fi go a mountain a live wid di rest a dem bush man de”
And your use of “the queens english” has put you in my family. You are my sister. *ehug*
@Nick_L_Odeon
“…were real “Butus”
Wow. You took it home with this one.
@SmartFoxGirl
“…is wah dem boogoo yagaa a chat bout?”
LMAO! If I didnt know any better, I would swear you were here illegally.
You two ladies took it back ah yard.
Get em, girl. Tell em what’s up. I don’t know why it still shocks me, too.
lmao the “awwww sweetie” comments never cease to amuse me.
What you have described is documented, and it is an effect of growing up in a racially mixed environment. Smart Black kids in Black neighborhoods are not, as a general rule, picked on for being intelligent. This occurs in mixed or overwhelmingly white environments wherein the standards for what qualifies as Blackness have not been set by Black people themselves, but by the dominant culture (white people) and/or the greater popular culture.
I don’t know about others, but I can definitely say that this topic is very, very complicated (at least in my psyche) and probably for many other people. It has a lot to do with much more than I could detail here, but in short: I was slightly obese, had large glasses, was poor, and also happened to best most of the class on “objective” measurements of intelligence. I can’t say for sure that I wasn’t picked on for being smart, but I also can’t say that I was, either. That being the said, because of the constant teasing, I developed a defense mechanism that involved me assuming that I was smarter than most of the people I met. Of course this made me come off as a prick (and probably still does to this day, sue me) and further intensified the teasing. I think my personal experience presents an interesting case: while some kids may initially get teased for other reasons, it may evolve into getting teased for being “smarter” than ones peers through one’s own actions. I also distinctly remember that even though I was teased about such things, it gave me a distinct sense of pride.
The aforementioned experience was only from elementary to junior high, though. When I entered high school I encountered an entirely new phenomena: white kids (aspiring rappers, go figure) along with the “popular” black kids asserted that I wasn’t “black” enough because I was “too smart”,”talked white”, and read “too many” books. While I can not present a unbiased opinion on the matter, I can definitely say that I think my earlier defense mechanism had somewhat mellowed, I had developed a rather robust physique from playing sports year round, and that I had begun to wear contacts. I was still poor, but had learned how to stretch the little of amount of money I was given into decent clothing. I also had a good selection of friends as well. So, while on some level I agree with some of what was posted, I do believe that intra-racial teasing/harassment based on perceived intelligence and/or perceptions of whiteness exists and happens more frequently than you think. I also wanted to mention that this was not a rare problem for other black people in New Orleans around that time.
^Good point.
@Jen
I didn’t mean for this to be a reply to you, I clicked on the wrong button. I think we may be speaking about some of the same things, though.
BTW…I wanted to wish all of my people a “Happy Fried Chicken Day”
(seriously, July 6th is national fried chicken day so I gift you this)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8pyW6w5B7Aw
“BTW…I wanted to wish all of my people a “Happy Fried Chicken Day””
This is probably the whitest comment of them all.
o_O
Oh, by the way, Happy Fried Chicken day you too Jai (and Precious)! In honor of this post, I’mma eat my fried chicken with my pinky lifted in the air.
I’m eating a KFC doublicious for lunch. Yes indeedy
What’s that?
Your rent for living in my head is due by the 15th. Thank you.
*takes another bite of KFC doubilicious*
*wipes grease from fingers to type*
Rent for living? #DEAD hahahahahahahaha
And here I am going to Murphy’s Deli for a club supreme when I should have gone to KFC like I wanted to.
*Laughs while realizing he is making Fried Chicken for dinner*
Happy Fried Chicken day
IDK about this one. I actually agree with the myth. As a kid, I went to two different elementary schools. One, a private black catholic school, and one a public majority white school. At the black school, although I was excelled academically, and was often pointed out by my teachers, I wasn’t ever made fun of. My other classmates would just say “oh, yeah, you’re smart”, and we kept it moving. At the white school, the “smart” kids were separated into gifted programs and honors classes, in which I’d be one of very few black students. They separated me from the other black kids, thus other black students felt like i was trying to “act white”, since my achievement caused me to be separated from them. I think the key here is the idea of integration. Being smart in an all black school means that you’re merely part of a separate group of smart black kids, while being smart at a white school ultimately means that you’ll be placed with more white kids. Given the existing preconceived notions that teachers may have about black students, they may also unjustly place fewer black kids in the honors and gifted programs, thus causing even more disparities.When black students excel at mixed race schools, they may be seen as trying to be with the white students. I think the idea isn’t that blacks automatically think trying to be smart is “acting white”, but rather they see their peers being completely separated from their group because they are smart. This is where I think the problem lies.
Me thinks I agree.
You’re saying what the vast majority of reputable sociologists and psychologists have said on the subject: that the “acting white” meme is something that exists only to the extent that it has been superimposed upon Black American culture. It isn’t ours.
I think this exactly what I’ve been trying to put into words. I had a similar experience-went to two elementary schools that had different demographics thus my experiences were different, very similar to what you have stated. Thanks for this.
In my short 30+ years I’ve learned that “acting white” is the most hypocritical, asinine concept we as black people push in our community. We truly are the dumbest people on the planet.
I mean really everyone gets their thongs and boxers in a bunch over some black kids’ zealousness to mimic white people? Really?
YET when we as black people engage in criminal lifestyles or glorify a life of “white trash” poverty (e.g. Do you thing we invented mayonnaise sandwiches? Ah no! Do you think we invented the ghetto? Ah hell no!), we FAIL to see that too is “acting” white in this country.
First off EVERYTHING criminal in this country is based on some white man’s oppressive game to exploit the poor for personal gain.
And we as black people are always first in line to emulate white people’s criminal tendencies and adopt their lifestyle.
Black people are always so eager to sell drugs and emulate gang and mob lifestyles, with many of our men even changing their names to mafia monikers. Or how about how every black athlete or rapper worships Pacino in Scarface or those stupid Godfather movies.
Seems to me anything dysfunctional and degenerate white people do we are so quick to adopt that as the standard of blackness. Puh leeze.
So if Black people have such zealousness to mimic white people’s criminal tendencies and lifestyles how dare you attack a black person that chooses the other side of the coin.
That’s just my 2cents.
^
I agree with your two cents, and am glad you added it, because I didn’t know how to succinctly couple it with my two cents.
^ Thats bible right there.
I agree.
mannnn i’ve been picked on for ‘acting white’ and even not being a ‘real black person’ because of how i spoke when i was younger. and these were just my cousins. lol.
as i got older it no longer mattered, but man, before high school, everything about me was ‘white’. i talked white, acted white, had white people hair, had a white best friend, etc… lol. i couldn’t BUY a black card.
i was never teased about getting good grades, but everything else, most def.
if i wasn’t
…clearly i wasn’t done with my comment. but whatevs. lol.
blame my adhd.
adhd is white too
lol j/k
alas, I have adhd too (@SFG…I’m getting whiter and whiter with this post…j/k)
@Muze…Just got through with 20. The disney world trip made me smile (i have to add the ‘wood’ for ‘good’ statement and work it into my convo LOL)!
Boy I really should get more work done and do more “managing” than commenting on this rubbish. I just had to speak to an employee cause she got caught on personal email. Is this white of me?
bwah ha ha *evil voice* Get back to work ninjas!
I shall relate a childhood story. My Mother and Father raised my sibling and I in Columbia, SC (last place they were both stationed). My Mother’s side of the family lives in Beaufort, SC. Once when I was 9 I got annoyed when one of my Aunts called me “White Girl.” On video I responded, “Why is the use of correct grammar considered white? Why is speaking in a proper manner using actual words thought to be outside the realm of black people? Don’t you think there is something wrong with that?” From that day forward I was called the Professor. Looking back I suppose that was a tad odd coming from a 9 year old…the same day I had a HUGE debate with my alcoholic Uncle about drinking around children LOL.
as a chick who grew up in the whitest suburb..i have lots to say on this. but can’t do it now. i’ll be back. arnold.
I’m not new, but usually last because I am on the west coast and I read these late in the day.
Champ,
I was going to disagree with your statement that the “acting white” bullying doesn’t occur as often as is portrayed and demand that you provide a statistic as you did with the interracial marriages. All the comments where people have said that they did get picked on for ‘acting white’ would counter your claims, but then you said there is a difference between getting picked on and getting beat down because of it. (Correct me if I am wrong..). What do you mean by that exactly?
If you are saying that people being picked on to the extent that they decide to dumb themselves down because of it out of fear of further bullying doesn’t happen as often as is portrayed- then yes you are probably right.
Like many other people have said, it depends on the circumstances, geography, maturity level of the ‘bully’ etc. I got picked on but didn’t let it stop me from succeeding. However, it did affect me. When I went to Berkeley and were around my peers I was anxious that I wasn’t “black enough” after being it being drilled into my head in high school that I wasn’t. I was the only Black girl in my high school class and the other black students were constantly picking on me for ‘acting white’. And yes, it wasn’t about being smart- it was about how I spoke, what interests I had, the music I liked (I listened to mostly to R&B, but damn if Bon Jovi, U2 and Tchaikovsky didn’t grow on me..). Luckily, amongst the Black students I hung out with at Berkeley, none of my personality quirks mattered. I was wonderful enough for them to like me anyway. However my ‘blackness’ is still only at a strong 75%. LOL
What I find interesting is that even on into adulthood, we STILL persecute people for ‘acting white’ – even on this thread.
I agree with whoever requested that Champ needs to give a definition of what ‘acting white’ means if it isn’t just being intelligent.
Rashida Jones and Chris Rock? Really? What have they done to give them the label? I have only watched Rashida Jones on The Office. Is her getting parts where she is the only Black girl who doesn’t act ‘hood’ enough to get her the ‘acting white’ label? She is still clearly black. Has she come out and said “I ain’t Black?” And what did Chris Rock do? (Seriously, what did he do? I don’t pay enough attention to pop culture so I might have missed it…LOL).
Here is my definition: Someone who denigrates black culture, someone who does nothing to help/ or even works against helping Black People, someone who unequivocally DENIES their race (for any reason- for those who assert needing to survive in the white world is a good enough reason). THIS type of ‘acting white’ deserves denigration, not liking Tom Jones, khaki pants, working with/living with or even marrying a white person.
Black people are not a monolithic group. We all don’t like R&B, watermelon, speak slang, or are Democrats. We keep saying this to ourselves and to 2520s, but the way we treat others within our own race..it is understandable that no one actually believes it.
Uh? Have we read the same entry?
What I find interesting is that even on into adulthood, we STILL persecute people for ‘acting white’ – even on this thread.
What does this mean? Any example of that in the thread would be appreciated.
And on the labels thing, it’s labeling THE post… not meaning that the people apply…oh, never mind.
Ex:
3. some young adults actually do act “white”…and they do deserve to be picked on
by acting “white” i’m not referring to using proper english, listening to weezer instead of weezy, not using washcloths, or even dating outside of your race. but, there are people who do their absolute best to rid themselves of any apparent trace of black culture, and those people deserve to be admonished.
i won’t go into too much detail about how exactly “doing your absolute best to rid yourself of any trace of black culture” is defined, but i will say that its definition is somewhat similar to porn’s: you know it when you see it.
basically, just think of any character ever played by rashida jones.
—
Admittedly..Champ did mention what I wrote in this example..so I was incorrect in that he didn’t provide a definition. And yes he did say any character every PLAYED by Rashida Jones, not Rashida Jones herself. However another example that was listed in the thread was Chris Rock, someone else mentioned Tiger Woods.
I don’t understand your labels question, though.
I was mistaken on my accusation against Champ (my bad..I apologize..xoxo) but I do stand by my argument. We are always accusing others of acting white while at the same time, resisting being put into a box as a race.
Sorry. Can’t get with this argument. As someone who is Nigerian/Black, who has never wanted to be anything but black, far from nerdy and has always generally been popular, and listens to Weezy and Weezer, I have been picked on by relatives and school mates alike. Furthermore, this has been the same experience of my equally intelligent, beautiful, far from socially awkward black female friends.
PS. I sincerely hope that the Akeelah and The Bee point was a joke.
Oh and @TonyaLove, are we the same person?? I went to Berkeley too and just finished telling my other friend how I would still feel trepidation and anxiety when being in an all black situation for fear of being outcast.
Hi Lizzy, (Go Bears!)
I don’t feel that way, anymore. I have grown comfortable being only 75% Black. LOL
So… Just something to maybe go into what Champ meant about “acting white” in the context of his post (which, given all the confused commentating you’ve sparked up, might not have been the best choice of words, lol)… Think people who say they speak proper English not because they DO, but because they’ve been picked on by black people for the way they talk. For instance… I know multiple black girls with Valley girl accents. Call me crazy, but I’ll be damned if that’s standard English. I think a big part of that is confusing accent with proper grammar… buuut that’s a rant for a different day.
Ehh… I lost a lot of what I was going to say because I got into a free agency argument. I’ll come back when it comes back. *le sigh*
@Purplenat, I think you’re splitting hairs my friend. I’m an actual black valley girl…from the SF Valley in LA. I do indeed talk like a valley girl. I’ve been made fun of for my valley accent. In fact I make fun of my own valley-ness. Trust, that type of teasing doesn’t spawn years of insecurity. You know what “acting white” means so let’s not go there.
My point is simply that not having a stereotypical black accent doesn’t mean you speak proper English… Nor does having an accent that people typically attribute to white people, which, in my experience, the Valley accent is. What I’m saying is that it’s an example where people sometimes attribute things that aren’t generally considered black to being smart, which, even if it’s not your experience, happens. It was more in response to specific responses that keep popping up in the thread than the original post itself.
Wow, I grew up in West Philly, youngest of 7….too white…too smart….too short… wearing glasses …just different. 1st to go to college in the family….nicknames growing up “Computer, Brainiac, White boy, Alex Keaton….etc (that’s just from my family!). I was picked on for speaking “proper” and acting white…etc. 30 yrs later…. credit score…809….good job, college grad…never been to jail…no children out of wedlock…living in Hawaii…been around the world. Kids do get picked on for being different… and if the difference is speaking proper, wanting something outside of the neighborhood, it can be brutal. In my adult life I remember a conversation with a narrow minded black person because my then 4 yr dau want cowgirl boots for her birthday…….”I was told “Black people don’t wear boots”. Long story short…she got them, loved them and was happy Dad gave her something that to this day 17yrs later she still smiles about when it’s mentioned.
As a kid who was routinely bullied for not dressing in the latest urban fashions, not idolizing the latest hip-hop artist, and not willing to go under the bleachers with the rest of my agemates, and also a high-achieving student and nerd, I am straddling the fence on this one. Who can say how often kids get bullied? A lot of kids don’t report getting bullied because they’re scared it’ll make things worse for them at school. The system can only protect them so much, you know. But I think the more apt way of putting this would be it doesn’t happen as often anymore.
If you look, a lot more young black children are going on to graduate high school and pursue higher education at respected institutions. I think our people like to aggrandize any situation that can be tied into race. I had white friends who were picked on by their own just as much as I was by my own, but it never stopped us from achieving what we wanted to achieve. However, the whole ‘acting white’ accusation still runs strong in the youth. I know this, because I still get this flung at me daily. “Why you tryna act white?” Since when were Black people so mentally enslaved as to attribute success, desire for self-improvement and empowerment, and an extensive lexicon to whiteness? I know plenty of white people who couldn’t keep up with me in any field, just as I know plenty of blacks who surpass me in the aforementioned attributes.
Black people need to wake up and stop trying to drag everything into a race issue because in the long run it hinders us as a community. And I wouldn’t even call us a community because I’ve yet to see any real cohesion between us. It’s sad, but you can’t change everyone. A lot of the people stuck in that mentality have no desire to change and even a rude awakening wouldn’t be much help. You just have to push on and worry about yourself nowadays.
i’ve read the post. i’ve read most of the comments.
here’s my 93.47 cdn cents.
this issue is deeply personal as it either describes many vsp’s childhood or adulthood.
if we heard about the ‘being white’ as kids, and we still turned out to be well adjusted black that means the myth isn’t true or didn’t occur? (that’s how i read it.)
the tree falling in a forest/no one to hear it theory? (kinda like my post)
no bueno.
if you’ve been told, as a kid, teen or adult that you act/look/talk/walk/dress/work/save like a white person – you know what they are trying to say.
if a white person said it to you – they were secretly impressed. oh you speak so well! so well spoken! (aka: for a black person)
if a black person said it to you – they were hating or maybe secretly jealous/envious.
who knows what lurks in the mind of the ignorant.
moral of the story: the definition of black needs to be changed by us.
“who knows what lurks in the mind of the ignorant”
I loved that part! Just had to say that.
Been reading and luving ur blog… ummmm but I gotta say, Don’t get it twisted Weezer is gangsta as hell! ==W==4eva! =)
peace!
I always read the posts, but hardly ever read the comments unless it’s a funny post because the laughter keeps on rolling. But umm, how do YOU (Champ) block certain people from posting responses? I am sure you know who I’m refering to. I mean, I understand that this site is verysmartBROTHA’s dotcom. I understand that some people of other races comment — it brings the perspectives of others to the table, and I think that’s great. However, working with Black people, knowing Black people, and being around Black people in NO WAY SHAPE FORM OR FASHION makes you understand Black people.
I know this comment is late…but I almost have a headache with the one person who swears she is God’s answer to all things Black.
This is a very passive aggressive statement. Why?
***Last***
LMAO @ not using washcloths…. I always wondered why that is….
I don’t know where most of you guys live, but where I’m from being black and being smart does get you picked on, especially when teachers act like it’s an anomaly for a black person to be smart.
In my experience, everytime I got the highest grade in the class the teachers said something, and then I got ridiculed. When I was the only person in the class to get first honors one year, that’s when I became aware that it even made a difference whether or not I was “smart.”
I wanted to fit in so bad that I never discussed my grades with anybody since grade school, but ppl knew they were high since I got the academic achievement medals.
This teasing started well before I had to get glasses, learned I was too skinny, like Star Wars, etc., and began to meet the criteria that most associate with being a “nerd.” I find it interesting how ppl make intelligence assumptions based on sight problems and personal preferences, but again, ppl are ppl.
I think black ppl put ourselves in a box too many times, and then parents teach their kids to stay in that d#$m box, and then we wonder why we haven’t advanced that much compared to other races.
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I would Like to ask all of you were you are from? Or more directly what kind of sorroundings you came up in. Were there people around you guys to teach you and reinforce in you the knowledge that such teasing was nonsense. I grew up in a rural largely black town in the south. (Youtube boondocks thugnificient intro for more on that.) And Secondly did the adults around you accept the acting white dichotomy. From what you guys are saying I get the sense that you are probably interpreting the situation wrong.
No of Course Smart Black Brothas arent so affected by teasing that they dumb themselves down. A nerd is a nerd and the fact that Malcolm X and Will Smith are famous tells us that a Smart brotha does not equal nerd. But how man brothas do you know who will change thier self image get the girl the want. Or the Status they fell they deserve. Men are driven to be Alphas and black men are no different. If society broadcasts to them especially early on that this is what you should be how easy is it for a child to fall into that trap if all he sees is the block school and home.
Despite being in a small town the gifted program at my school had just got some new staff in and was quite large. I remember being tested in kindergarten. In first grade There were at least a dozen black males in the gifted program. These boys were smart and stayed that way for as long as I knew them and no matter what they did. By Highscool though I really was the only one who developed in unusual tastes. I was wierd. I was a reader a rampant internet roamer and had many other eclectic tastes. Sometimes they’d warn me about how carrying my books was having a egative impact on popularity. I lol’ed. The rest of the boys for the most part chose from among three professions and pursued them to whatever end. The three professions were of course Rapper, Football Player, and Drug Dealer.
That’s it really. LoL maybe?
The second part is this. Black Girls and Black Boys who act smart are frequently seen as different from theirs peers which creates a dichotomy that is mutally negative for young children. This grows as they get older and are filtered into skill based classes which in turn directly affects thier interest and experiences and how much of the world outside thier street/hood/projects they get to see. Now Who are these “advanced negroes” or gifted kids most likely to relate to after all the seperation? How does the acting white dichotomy come into play on Black children’s interest and habits is a more important question than whether Children are getting bullied are not. I’ve known a few smart bruthas and smart sistahs who wouldnt date blacks for various reasons. For the most part it all winds down to interest and likes.
The reason the Dichtomy is important is beacuse it equates everything outside the hood with being wrong. In the border hood this is ok. It easy for some kids to adopt mannerisms at schools and then drop them at homes but what about the kids who have no idea about life outside thier corner. What does it mean for an eight year old child or a fifteen year old child living in the information or Global age to dismiss everything outside his stoop as wack. He doesnt dum himself down not at all. That’s just not what happens. This is a newsflash to some people but the niggas on the block aint dumb by a long shot.
Who makes more money long term a smart drug dealer or a smart CEO?
I am not 100 % with this post. This is the first post on this site that I have read that i didn’t agree with.
The backwards idea of ignorance rewarded over success may not be a pandemic but it has been a crucial factor in the retardation of scholastic, social and personal growth for our young black men.
And it doesn’t have to be extreme to cause lasting damage.
Sorry, I simply disagree.
Love the site though.