The Unspoken But Expected Reciprocation Of Giving (And Receiving) Head

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Despite the fact that it first aired a few months ago, I’m just now getting around to watching the current season of “Louie.” I’m up to episode four, but something that occurred in episode two addresses an unspoken bit of dating decorum that, well, has remained unspoken for obvious reasons.

Louie’s friend arranges for the newly single Louie to meet someone. They don’t initially hit it off, but after heading to a bar, having a couple drinks, and donning some beer goggles, they start to warm up to each other. They leave in her truck, and after a couple blocks she pulls over in an alley, tells him to whip it out, and starts giving him head. When finished (and yes, she swallows), she sits back up and asks him to return the favor. He refuses, saying that he considers that to be too intimate of an act to do when first meeting someone.

This (predictably) starts an argument where she basically says that reciprocation is expected, and, if he wasn’t prepared to go down on her, he shouldn’t have allowed her to give him a bj. He replied that just because she doesn’t consider that to be too intimate doesn’t mean that he should feel the same way. 

The scene ends with her basically raping him into giving her head (you have to see it to believe it), but it stayed with me because of the issue it brings up. Much of our dating/relationship lives are governed by certain unspoken but expected reciprocations —  some as small as “If you accept this drink, you’re also accepting (at least) two songs worth of conversation” and others as potentially life-changing as “If I’m monogamous, I expect you to be monogamous too.” And, since these things are largely unspoken, there always remains the possibility that miscommunications such as the one that occurred with Louie will end up with a p*ssy forcefully placed in your mouth.

I guess the easy solution would be to just make certain everything is always explicitly communicated, but life doesn’t always work that way. Sometimes we assume that people we’re dating share the same sense of decorum. Sometimes we don’t make that assumption, but don’t actually think to bring up the subject until it smacks you in the face. And, sometimes we want to bring stuff up, but worry about offending and/or ruining the mood. Basically, assumed social mores has a tendency to make us a bunch of p*ssies. (If it seems like I’m enjoying typing “p*ssy’ too much, it’s because I totally am. P*ssy, P*ssy, P*ssy, P*ssy, P*ssy!!!)

Oh, and as far as oral sex decorum, I’m not sure if there’s a right answer to Louie’s situation. Personally, I haven’t gone down on everyone who’s gone down on me (Is it an damning indictment of my sexual past if just the mere thought of possibly eating out some of the woman who’ve given me head gives me chills and cold sweats? Nevermind. Don’t answer that question.), and I’ve never given head in anticipation of reciprocation either. If I did it, I did it because I wanted to do it, not because I wanted them to do something in return.

Also, Louie was right. Just because a person is ready to suck off and/or eat out anyone who smells good and smiles at them doesn’t mean that the person receiving the head will feel the same way. For some people, going down on someone is only reserved for “special” people. (ie: future wives, former presidents, Nicole Beharie, women who you’re trying to trick into letting you hit, etc) Yes, it’s somewhat hypocritical to accept head from someone knowing that you’d never, ever, ever, ever return the favor, but “hypocritical” doesn’t mean “wrong.”

At the same time, I also do think that Louie’s date had a valid point. I mean, after a certain point in your life (and by “after a certain point in your life” I mean “after your 21st birthday”), you probably shouldn’t be receiving head from someone you’d never, ever, ever — for moral, biological, or “you disgust the ever-living shit out of me” reasons — give head to. At that point, returning the act isn’t so much about the act itself as much as it’s about the principle. This — giving head — is something adults do, and if you’re ready to receive, your ass needs to be ready to give as well.

Anyway, people of VSB.com, what do you think? If you go down on someone, do you expect them to go down on you too? If so, why, and if not, why not?

Also, do you consider oral sex to be more intimate than just plain ole f*ckin?

—Damon Young (aka “The Champ”)

for those folks in the DMV, this Saturday, October 6 is another edition of Reminisce, our all 90s everything hip-hop/r&b/dancehall party at Liv Nightclub in Washington, DC. It’s free before 11pm with RSVP (http://reminiscedc.eventbrite.com) and there’s an open bar from 930-1030pm with no dress code. Come to party, leave to remember. Reminisce. Peep the flyer and FB invite: http://www.facebook.com/events/325601340869364/

406 thoughts on “The Unspoken But Expected Reciprocation Of Giving (And Receiving) Head”

    • buahahahahha

      If that aint the damn truth.

      But then again, we need to stop putting porn star limitations on regular chicks.

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        • And you shouldn’t have to because when you haven’t run past the 120 peen benchmark, it shouldn’t exactly be expected of you to pull off what they can. But porn is trippy like that.

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            • Buahahaha I’m all for the journey of natural progression. I just don’t want to set unrealistic goals on someone who clearly isn’t anywhere near touching it. I remember what that felt like when it was done to me, so I take that into consideration.

              Plus, I heard this podcast from Dan Savage, featuring the owner of this site called MakeLoveNotPorn.com. I never realized how many women feel jaded by the porn acts their men want them to perform.

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      • There are three types of people in the world, givers, takers and takers who think they are givers. I know I am a giver, if a woman wants to be a pillow princess, lay back and let me pleasure her but she is too proud to get on her knees and take care of my wants and needs- I know she is not a giver. She has to go. I remember the first time I was with a white chick back when I was a teenager and she did it right from jump and acted like she enjoyed it when she did it unlike my sisters- who I had to plead and cave conversations about it before they would..

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        • That was my experience too. White girl slopped it up without hesitation, but black girl needs motivation. And since I’m a giver, I gave GREAT reasons to be an equal oppurtunist but not everyone is ready to take a stand.

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      • Simple really…
        For example, I “dated” this aka back in college who was an anomaly in that she was a black girl that loved givin Becky, did’nt have to campaign or negotiate or nuffin’!
        The only catch….
        Her head game was horrendous, in fact it was painful…but a Nygga would’nt say anything because, well….she’s given me dome eagerly and hassle free.
        Point is she would brag to me about how she had me moanin’ I jus didn’t have the heart to tell her why…..

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        • Hey!! Stop putting AKAs out there like that. We’re perfect in every way!

          You didn’t tell her how to please you-you brought it on yourself bruh.

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        • At least she was a willing giver!! When I first started doing it in college I always asked my guy afterwards what did you like?? Hell I was new at this I needed to know what to do or not to do from the person that could give me the best review!!

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        • At least she was a willing giver!! When I first started doing it in college I always asked my guy afterwards what did you like?? Hell I was new at this I needed to know what to do or not to do from the person that could give me the best review!! I still ask to this day because every man is different :)

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    • This is my rule: If you aren’t comfortable communicating about it with them, you shouldn’t be doing it with them.

      I love myself too much to sacrifice my health and well being for a quick nut. Whether it’s through oral sex or intercourse, it doesn’t matter.

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    • Yeah.
      I get clowned or at least looked at funny when I say I’ll take a hand job over getting head any day or night.

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      • Where are these women who give great handjobs? I’m not saying I haven’t met a few, but a bad handjob is waaaaay worse than bad head. I’ve had to remind women that my peen is attached to a living, breathing human being too often for my tastes. Nuh suh!

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    • You know, once upon a time….
      I had a friend who once told me that the best reasons for dating her were that she cooked, cleaned and gave exceptional head.
      Alls I know is, she made someone cry tears of joy so maybe Karrine could learn from her?

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    • “Meh. I’m not too big on receiving, chicks aren’t as Karrine Steffans as they like to believe”

      even with supahead head, it’s still not preferable to actual sex. i mean, it’s good and all, but it’s like an appetizer to the main course. some buttered bread before the salmon.

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      • No way could I compare to Supahead or even think that I’m close but I go in and give the best appetizer I can give(everybody can’t deep throat LOL). I want the main course more …hopefully we both want the main entree!!

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    • Tossing out the Superhead card I see, nicely played.

      Oral has its moments and merits, but in no way is it an obligation, at least to me it isn’t

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  4. I…hmm…I think it comes down to a major relationship component that a lot of folks lack which is communication before copulation. If you talk about things before (and sometimes after) they occur, go over likes, dislikes and expectations, you could avoid what seems to be a really awkward standoff.

    *yawns and goes to bed*

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    • In relationships…sure.

      This seems to stick to the issue of “dating” or random hook ups, where you will never…EVER…have that conversation and are left to assumptions because people never grow the balls/ovaries to have this difficult discussion on the first night, even though they should do it every night.

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      • “*yawns and goes to bed*

        thank you for treating this entry the same way my cat would”

        ^Hey, Champ:) So cat-sitting has been officially upgraded to “yo cat”? I would still love to hear how you became “a ni@@a with a cat”.

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  5. Ive been reading this blog (and the thread of responses that follow) for months, and finally decided to leave a comment :) My husband and I obviously give because we know one another enjoys it, without any expectations of reciprocity…but IMO in the dating world, its nearly insulting to receive from someone who you’d never consider giving to.

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    • Nuh-uh. Listen, everyone’s a sucker for head (see what i did there lol), so most ppl are gonna be greedy when it comes to receiving; morals be damned. Especially if i dont know you like that, like in the louie example. I literally dont owe you anything. Now i’ll admit, sex is usually better when there IS reciprocation, but nowhere in the rule book does it say it’s a must.

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      • “Now i’ll admit, sex is usually better when there IS reciprocation, but nowhere in the rule book does it say it’s a must.”

        See the Perverted Alchemist’s book on Sexual Gratification Between Two Parties- Chapter 2, Page 69…heh heh heh…

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      • “Now i’ll admit, sex is usually better when there IS reciprocation, but nowhere in the rule book does it say it’s a must.”

        hmmm. “the reciprocation rule book” sounds like a good idea for an entry

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  6. All I know is….I’m not going first because if i munch then I would expect reciprocation because i feel that that’s the only fair way to do it

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        • True, but that doesn’t matter because if you notice that you are the first to put your lips on the unmentionables and that s/he has not returned, you can stop before it goes too far. Plus, it’d be a perfect time to ask the man if he is not engaging because she is not edible. Some girls don’t know…

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        • Um, well, it’s a mutual position. We both know what we’re there for. I’ve had no problems with angles, but focus, yeah. I can remember a time that the ex and I were into it and I had him near climax, apparently too soon for his liking. He pinned me with his legs and proceeded to bring me damn close to heart failure.

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    • “All I know is….I’m not going first because if i munch then I would expect reciprocation because i feel that that’s the only fair way to do it”

      with me, it’s all dependent on how much I like someone.

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  7. This season of Louie has been terrible. I liked the first two seasons, but I don’t know what to make of this season. It’s like he’s trying to be Avant-garde or something. It just isn’t working for the most part. Be careful, Champ. You sound like you’re being dismissive of Louie’s “legitimate rape.” You sound like you’re making excuses for abuses again. :-) Maybe the fellas should shame and shout you into submission this time. Oh wait, nobody gave a sh!t about the portrayal of rape when the episode aired so why would they now? Nevermind then.

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    • Excellent job. Seriously though, forcing me into head will force me to call the police, and if the police don’t want to take a report on that, they’ll take a report on how I beat a chick into a coma. Sexual assault is sexual assault, ya know?

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        • Yes they can. Never…EVER…downplay the power of women. Yall can be scary as fawk when your minds are focused and have strict tunnel vision.

          It could be pills. Maybe she poisons his drink. Maybe she seduces him and ties him to a bed, convincing him something great is about to happen. And then BAM! Head crab.

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            • Would it be assault if it was a woman in the same situation?

              Consider if the same things were happening to you. Would you report it as assault or no? Whatever is unacceptable for you, assume it would be unacceptable to any other person, regardless of gender unless otherwise stated by that individual person.

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            • Technically it should be, when vice versa, a woman can go to the police with those claims.

              But that’s the problem. No one believes a man when he says a woman has sexually abused him. Unless there is clear evidence, it is just hard for the general public to believe that a woman smaller and shorter than a man could actually have that kind of physical power over him.

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    • Since I can’t really watch the clip to remind myself of what happened, I agree it was suspect but probably assault at most. Didn;t she push his head down, jump on him? She wasn’t a linebacker though, if he wanted to get away, he could have tossed her off of him. Perhaps that’s more of a legal issue though- she assaulted him and he gave in…ya I guess that could be r@pe.

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    • “This season of Louie has been terrible. I liked the first two seasons, but I don’t know what to make of this season. It’s like he’s trying to be Avant-garde or something. It just isn’t working for the most part. ”

      I won’t say that it’s been terrible, but I haven’t enjoyed it as much as I did previous seasons. And yeah, if the common definitions for rape go both ways, then he was definitely raped. men being raped, though, is frequently used as a comedic device — every time you make a “don’t drop the soap” joke in reference to prison or showers, you’re telling a rape joke — so Louie’s skit isn’t doesn’t seem that uncomfortable because we’re used to that being funny

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  8. WOAH! This is a topic reserved for WC and TUK. I think they both will do a great job in deconstructing the myths associated with this subject matter.

    Imma have me some several seats, actually I’m currently occupying the whole of the Olympic stadium, as I am an African and this is a TABOO subject.

    On the aside, I am reading an article about a dude who worked in the nrop industry, not as an actor though. He is giving an exclusive look into the operatives of that industry. If anybody is interested, find me at the Olympic Stadium and I’ll be happy to link. Jah Bless!

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  9. “She watch Channel Zero…”
    -Public Enemy

    Good morning champ,
    While i have heard of the tv show “louie” ive yet to actually view it, nor do i think its likely as im not particularly fond of watching much tv at all. However, i do think there are a number of useful lessons to be gleaned from the particular episode you mention for today’s young princes out there on the open “meet market”.

    1. NEVER do blind dates. If ever there was a neon sign as to the state of your game-or the woeful, pathetic lack thereof-going out on a blind date is it. Think about it-nothing could be a bigger tell as to your smv. A prince should ALWAYS be able to score his own lays, unaided by “hookups” from his friends etc. Remember lads, the Game, is wherever YOU are-and your skills in the Venusian Arts should be practiced, studied and refined enough for you to be able to apply it no matter whatever environment you find yourself in. Blind dating is an epic, colossal, catastrophic FAIL. Dont do that again.

    2. No Booze Rule is in full effect-only chumps and cowards rely on the firewater for some “liquid courage”-studied seducers never have to go that route. Aside from the inherent dangers of imbibing the wine and spirits, getting yourself (and your target) drunk deprives you both of the sublime experience of the seduction. What better bliss is there in knowing that the lady chose you for the evening, in full control of her faculties, sound in mind and body, hmm? You (and her for that matter) can hold your head up high the morning after, for you have bagged a legitimate catch. Beer goggles dont ever cut it-and keep in mind, that a woman who was drunk outta her mind the night before has grounds to charge you with rape-a big no no.

    3. Beware of Fool’s Mate: again, only AFCs (Average Frustrated Chumps) and rank newibies of the Seduction Arts seek to get a hasty ONS (One Night Stand); seasoned Gamesmen always wait at least a day or two. Why?

    Because we like to run Solid Game, which marks the difference between us and the rest of the pitiful male masses out there. For in their haste to get at the cookie, they reveal themselves to be men/boys of much lower value-a serious lady boner killer. An evening with you should be a treat and a privilege for any lady; if she can just whip you around the corner for “some” what does that really say about you? Hmm? Men who take the time to run stron, Solid Game, are men of formidably high value-which is catnip for the ladies. An evening with you should be one that is earned, not freely given away. Let her work for it-it is what she truly wants, after all.

    Follow these three simple rules and watch your love life change for the better; if not, and you will condemn yourself to feverishly working it out with the hand…

    …Yours.

    Here then is the end of todays lesson, lads. Any questions?

    Now adjourn your arses…

    O.

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    • I liked this.

      This is the first time I have been able to read all, understand AND agree with O’s comment. I don’t know what this means… … …doesn’t matter, I have to go complete a paper and read The Scarlet Letter for the second time in my life. *cries*

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    • Good words. And even when I was bigger in the AFC game than the Lamar Hunt trophy, I rolled with the first 2 pieces of advice. No rape charges for the kid, thanks, and besides, booze numbs me down there. If a woman wants it, she should be bold enough to get loose off of orange juice. Great post. :)

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    • Strike up the band and shoot your pistols in the air….I actually agree with O’s commentary!

      *1,000,000 on alcohol-flavored seduction.I can be seductive and charming without a shot of Grey Goose. In fact, if you have to have some “likka” to let go, I question your sexual prowess, period.

      SN: When I’m drunk, I start thinking I’m Gabby Douglas and I can put together the most amazing floor routines you’ve ever seen. But I’m not, so I usually end up with a bruise (or four) the next day.

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    • “This is the first time I have been able to read all, understand AND agree with O’s comment. I don’t know what this means…”

      Did lightening strike the boards or something?!?!? I actually want to go presidential and approve this message

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    • Good point. I’ve felt for a long time now that men should hold themselves to high regard just like women do when it comes to dating. If it’s that easy to get in your pants, then people are allowed to paint you in any color they want. It’s supposed to be our job to define ourselves.

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      • I felt this point too. I always wondered why some men were so free with their willys. I assumed the persona value of their bodies was not as strong as their desire for chex.

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        • It’s that idea that a man can do whatever he wants with little consequence. But then reality has shown, that isn’t true at all. And especially because women demand equal treatment nowadays, it forces us to really go over the rule book and point out what doesn’t make sense.

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    • “No Booze Rule is in full effect-only chumps and cowards rely on the firewater for some “liquid courage”-studied seducers never have to go that route.”

      Hmm. I agree with everything you said except this. Getting you and some woman drunk is one thing, but I don’t see a problem with having a drink to loosen up a little.

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      • Booze helps. In moderation. As with anything else in life, because too much of anything is bad.

        Until you wake up with draws on the floor, bra on the ceiling fan, a head cover by a sheet with a naked butt sticking out and a 7 hour gap between your black out and your current position that proves time travel is not just a theory.

        We call that “awesome” where I’m from.

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    • The black rock himself, Obsidian.

      I’m with you for the most part, but I’m not fully on board with your rationale on #3. I can agree that seeking hastily & oftentimes desperately to get a one night stand is the mark of a true lame. I don’t suppor that. However, I don’t think there is anything wrong should a man decide to test the possibility if the chemistry and vibe is there.
      Afterall, how else will he know the type of person he will be potentially dealing with if he doesn’t place the individual in situations that will guage and potentially reveal elements of their character?

      “…if she can just whip you around the corner for “some” what does that really say about you? Hmm?”
      It says that he is a man that opens the door when opportunity knocks loudly. The only bad p*ssy is wasted p*ssy. Just joking.

      “An evening with you should be one that is earned, not freely given away.”
      Agreed, but to a point….

      “Let her work for it-it is what she truly wants, after all.”
      If she is willing to indulge in the moment and relinquish the cookie, it would be silly to starve her as a result of an adherence to some arbitrary concept of her earning one’s magnificent manmeat. To deny a ‘cookie-in-the-bag’ for the sole purposes of making oneself feel desired and worshipped for a few more days is really -lets call it for what it is- narcissisim.

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  10. No whether you’re in a relationship or not if you voluntarily decide to go down on someone, you shouldn’t expect it back they didn’t ask for it. And if you’re in a relationship you should do it cause you want to please your man/woman and not expect it back at least right away cause he or she will return the favor unless she stingy. Coming from a person who never gives nor receive head O_O

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  13. lol @ this topic.

    Anywho, never go down on someone you don’t want to. I only go down on folks I’m screwing and am practically in a relationship with if we aren’t formally in one. Now if a chick volunteers to go down on me. If I’m game then its go time. I say thank you and dip out afterwards if no sex is going down.

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  16. See, this is why you don’t do that with people you met ten minutes ago. I always ask first. “Do you give? Do you like to receive? How do you like it?” etc. Always important to get those details. That way there’s no confusion.

    Secondly, you shouldn’t do something with the expectation (or anticipation) that it will be returned. That’s like when you give somebody a Christmas present and they feel guilty and obligated to give you one back. Guilty head is not good head.

    Personally, I enjoy giving head. I love it. Being able to make you orgasm that way makes me happy. BUT I never expect it in return. If it is, great but I really would rather you not even start if you’re not going to be enthusiastic about it. I can’t have fun if you only do it cuz you feel you have to. -__-

    BTW head to me isn’t more intimate than sex. To me, it is foreplay. I like giving it so you will get it every time. As a rule, if I’m not willing to give you head (or receive it from you) I’m not having sex with you.

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    • Heeeeey we think alike.

      Head is a gateway to sex for me. If I already have a problem putting my mouth on you, there’s no way the idea of sticking my dyck inside is going to be an easy decision. I’ll pretty much just walk away.

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    • I agree…don’t give anything with the expectation of receiving something in return. If oral sex happens, it should happen because the person really wants to do it. Guilty head would more than likely be given in some half-a$$ manner anyway.

      Shoulder shrug @ asking “do you give head?” Some men have ask and I’ve answered yes but they never experienced it.

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      • I agree…don’t give anything with the expectation of receiving something in return. If oral sex happens, it should happen because the person really wants to do it. Guilty head would more than likely be given in some half-a$$ manner anyway.

        I missed this the first go round, but this is so true. Guilty head is the worse because it just comes off like fulfilling a checklist. Why not just bite it for goodness sake? It’ll hurt like hell, but at least I know how you REALLY feel, and I’ll roll out, thanks.

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    • I agree with all of this. Giving orgasms is fun. And if you’re selfish, I might not give you another orgasm, but a brother can work it out, if you get my drift. Just expect some flaming basketballs if it comes to that, because it’s on to the next one.

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    • ^^^^^^^ What she said. I don’t find oral more intimate than sex, though it is intimate. To let you inside me, where you can only be closer to me if I birthed you, is THE most intimate act.
      However…if I can’t see myself having sex with you, your Wang gets no love, either.

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  17. hm. on one end of the spectrum I prefer a man do the most for me and feel good about himself because he can. that feeling of shelter and care is an absolute must to get ANYthing out of me. but I also find that even though the sexiest “videos” to me are ones geared towards woman worship — like I find it SO sexy when men pleasure their woman into a silly goose who is down for anything — I kinda like when men are just walls. like, ‘come here. please me.’

    I say that to say its visually appealing when men solely please women; its visually appealing when women please themselves using a man……at no point do I like the thought of a man getting his rocks off and thats it. as far as reciprocating? I dont think anyone has an obligation to do anything and I think you should have the freedom to enjoy what someone does for you. I also believe being involved with someone intimately means pleasure goes both ways in one way another. ‘I do this for you of my own accord and it makes me feel good’ vs. ‘do this for me cuz I did it for you first.’ tf. if you have to MAKE someone please you or they only do it out of awkward obligatory tension, you shouldnt be having relations with said person.

    be with someone consumed in your pleasure. itll flow.

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    • “but I also find that even though the sexiest “videos” to me are ones geared towards woman worship — like I find it SO sexy when men pleasure their woman into a silly goose who is down for anything — I kinda like when men are just walls. like, ‘come here. please me.’”

      Dominatrix alert *snickers*

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      • lol! I am not. I definitely like a man who’s inta pleasing though so maybe if men were more….willing. I wouldnt have to be so dominant. =x

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    • “I say that to say its visually appealing when men solely please women;”

      Thats my problem with most pron. It never looks like its any fun for the woman. :-(

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      • ex-Actly.

        I’m like woah, does home girl ever get hers or is this just supposed to be sexy cuz theres a naked woman….? and she happens to be getting humped. and the guys don’t even look that good, maybe I’m watching the wrong videos, but it doesnt look enoyable at all for the woman and I’m just like. na.

        but the few vids that are few and far between are the ones where the guys take their time and are actually concerned about how the woman feels through the whole chexing process. its much more appealing imo.

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        • 95% of porn is made for men. Because though women are always huge consumers in every other market, it never happens that way with porn, unless it is some kind of instructional video. So the companies don’t take big risks on it.

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        • The point of pr0n is objectification and gratification. It’s the idea that both a woman could be an object build for sexual gratification and a woman would be willing to do anything to make a man happy. In an odd way, pr0n is the one art form in our culture where acceptance and validation of a man as a fully-embodied human being is paramount. Few men get that unconditional acceptance in real life, and pr0n becomes a substitute for that.

          That’s why my NSFW Tumblr is named Objectification: The Tumblr Blog. Just for that purpose. :)

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        • this site’s pink! How cute. I’ll be sure to soak it up in the wee hours of the night/morning when I feel a little more at peace with myself. [*coughs*]

          @ Todd

          you know, that’s kinda true. I’m not really sure men ever get the full scope of the love of a woman even though I do think a lot of relationships have bits and pieces of what could be totality. I’m not sure men are fully serviced. I think men should be, at least the ones who have got themselves to the point of being deserving but I sometimes do think of men as….hm. creatures of strength and pressure who need women to nurture them throughout their development. but never do men receive the full scope in full development. I guess I can see how it’s necessary for full objectification.

          @ Asiyah

          word. life itself is not sexy and life itself seems to be very mundane in the sense of a woman’s gratification. it would be nice if women were gratified in their positions of being so giving of themselves and nurturing. equal appreciation.

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      • I hate p*rn. It’s boring. If I wanted to see women being used for sex and being objectified I’d open the blinds and look out the window of my apartment.

        Reply ↓

  18. “If you go down on someone, do you expect them to go down on you too? If so, why, and if not, why not?” Also, do you consider oral sex to be more intimate than just plain ole f*ckin?

    Ummm…. here’s the scoop on that.

    1- my partner and I are most likely gonna have this conversation well before we ever get to the guessing part. Ain’t no guessing to be had. We gonna know before we get there what’s what.

    2- if we going down, we’re going all the way. Who are these women that just give head (and, yes, I know they exist) and don’t get/give nothing more? If a man is in my bed or me in his, it’s on. We ain’t half way doing nothin’.

    3- sharing one’s body IS an intimate act whether it is oral or otherwise. I had a guy tell me that kissing was too intimate. I was like, “wha?” All other forms of physical contact, however, weren’t. Okaaaayyyy…. that did not compute.

    Reply ↓

    • First, Nilla Latte, there are plenty of people who won’t kiss you but will do anything else. It’s that whole fear of intimacy thing. Like the second you kiss them, you’ll just use that as an excuse to, I dunno, key their car and whip their tail because you were 3 minutes late because their mama was always 4 hours late because of her various alcohol binges. ;)

      Two, I understand where you’re coming from with the whole going all the way thing in terms of dating. In a serious relationship though, people get tired and busy. The whole rock-with-you-baby might have to wait until a night when there isn’t a busy meeting the next day. On occasion, a bit of selfishness is OK. Just don’t make it a habit.

      Reply ↓

      • And, here I thought my wires were crossed. LOL Kissing someone has never been that serious for me. In fact, it’s a prelude, if he’s any good, to wondering “If he can kiss, what else can he do?”

        LOL… at the waiting for a not busy next day. I’m good with that. Just don’t start nothing you can’t finish. ;)

        Reply ↓

        • “Kissing someone has never been that serious for me. ”

          +1000

          I feel the same exact way, to me kissing is filrty foreplay, I like to suck face *shrug* but yeah I’ve heard male friends say they don’t be kissing every chick they be fcuking cuz that’s intimate to them but he will let her give him some dome RAW.

          Reply ↓

      • Okay, maybe guys are wired differently in this aspect too. And, maybe this is why I have run into some really BAD kissers. There was only one guy… that’s right one… that rocked my world only kissing.

        Crazy back in the day story time: James was a friend of my friend and they were out on club night. I saw them at the Krystal after the club (people in South should know about Krystal on club nights). Anywho, I hollered at James, he slipped away from our mutual friend, got in the car with me, and we left Nashville for the ‘boro.

        When we got to his apt, we enjoyed a few stimulants of the chemical type. We started kissing, caressing, rolling around on the sofa and the floor. While kissing him I thought “Damn! This boi can kiss!” He apparently had the same thought and told me, “You’re a really good kisser.” Believe it or not, that is all we did until the sun came up.

        Later, I told our mutual friend about our rendezvous and he said, “Nah, I know my boy, James. If y’all did all that he got some.” I told my guy this same story a while back and he said the same thing, “Ain’t no way a man does all that and not get some.” Well, fellows, neither one of us ‘got some’ that night nor did we ever see each other again. I left his apt at sunrise and we never exchanged numbers. I didn’t even know where I was in that city and it took me a minute to find my way to familiarity.

        That kiss doe! Damn. I still recall that to this day. So, um, yeah, fellows need to up their skills in this department. It’s pure ecstasy when a man gets his game right. Just sayin.

        Reply ↓

      • kissing for me is something I almost feel is a virginity. theres something about a man coming into contact with my lips that just feels excessively intimate and I’m not even sure why that is or how I came to feel that way but I just feel some kind of way with someone *that* in my space. sex is different; mind you, I’m not exactly experienced in it but I can say doing it was more a drive, an innate desire I didnt feel like resisting at that particular moment and I still to this day have absolutely not a shred of regret about it. but I can also say that it was just that moment in time and in a society where sex has become so frivolous, yeah. it easily isn’t a major act of intimacy and even though ive taken part in that in my own little way I still do hold the process of that with a man, in its true form, as what it was meant to be: marraige, children, fufilling his desires when he desires to be fufilled, I still hold those beliefs to be true so in that sense I find sex and kissing just as intimate.

        Reply ↓

      • had a guy tell me that kissing was too intimate”

        it kind of is, though. maybe this is backwards thinking, but it can be more intimate to me than sex

        yeah i agree..
        though i believe that all s.e.x is intimate.. there is something unexplainably vulnerable about the intimacy of a shared kiss….

        Reply ↓

    • What in the ever loving F*{K?! Outrageous! I don’t know what they were going for with that scene…hope it wasn’t comedy.

      Reply ↓

      • “What in the ever loving F*{K?! Outrageous! I don’t know what they were going for with that scene…hope it wasn’t comedy.”

        It wasn’t really meant to be funny. He just has a way of taking certain social situations and pushing them to the point of absurdity.

        Reply ↓

    • I’m a fan of Louie’s show, but yeah…that was rape. Straight up. Oh, and the second she mentioned that bet, that would have been a moment to get out the vehicle, check out m.mta.info and figure out the best way home from there. Like no joke.

      And let her keep me in the car and pull what she did. I would have whipped her where she was, drove to the police station and DARED them to charge me with a crime. It would have been fun seeing the police try to make me a hardened criminal.

      Reply ↓

    • “I don’t think Louie is a show that I want to try to remember to watch either. Thanks Champ.”

      It’s a really great show, but it’s also not really a populist show. You won’t see me asking people to watch “Louie” the same way I do with “The Wire.”

      Thanks for finding that clip, btw. I put it in the entry.

      Reply ↓

  20. The vagina is a beautiful thing, but its a ton of traffic running through that joint! Yet and still I don’t expect a chick to give me brainy brain if i go down on her..

    Reply ↓

  22. This is one of those issues where people stick to their principles, and then you get to realize just how fawking retarded the people you encounter can be because of those principles.

    Honestly, sex is disgusting and people are disgusting. Ergo, we honestly should only bang people that don’t give us the creeps or make us question just how many wet wipes would it take to for them to not creep you out anymore.

    Point being, if I’m not willing to put my mouth on a woman, there should be no reason in hell I should be putting anything else in or on her. Not a finger, not a tongue, damn sure not the peen, etc. It’s not rocket science. There’s nothing more intimate about giving face time than there is having sex, it’s equally engrossing, but people put too much emphasis on the idea of intimacy. I can’t question some people’s beliefs that head/face should be reserved for special people (partners), but it is stupid as hell because if that’s how you feel, why the hell are you giving up the more important sexual organs up for free to others who aren’t worthy of your face? (like people who don’t kiss their jumpoffs)

    And clearly, this is a question that only pertains to people dating and smashing random people. This should not be an issue for people in relationships, as to the idea that you should have already had this conversation by the third date, or otherwise you’re a fawking idiot and asking for the end to come REALLY SOON.

    Because when we assume, you make an ass out of u & me

    Reply ↓

    • I agree. Esp about the kissing thing. Don’t understand people who are willing to do everything but kiss.

      Had it explained by a friend recently that he only kissed those cares about because it’s showing affection whereas f*cking is just acting on lust.

      Makes sense for him but I like to kiss so there ya go. *shrugs*

      Reply ↓

      • But the funny thing though…it doesn’t make sense. It’s just his way of justifying that he’s full of shyte, and that’s what always makes me chuckle on the inside.

        People portray themselves as sincere and upfront, but what they fail to realize is despite the fact that we are allowed to define ourselves, YOU STILL HAVE TO DO A GOOD JOB DEFINING YOURSELF.

        Reply ↓

      • “Had it explained by a friend recently that he only kissed those cares about because it’s showing affection whereas f*cking is just acting on lust.”

        That actually does make sense. Then again, I have intimacy issues.

        Reply ↓

      • “Had it explained by a friend recently that he only kissed those cares about because it’s showing affection whereas f*cking is just acting on lust.”

        Yeah, this does actually make sense to me, though

        Reply ↓

      • I once was in a F-buddy relationship where the non-kissing just happened. We got down and dirty the first time and….the other time just went the same way.

        We were cool as he!! with each other. Sex was the objective. We didn’t need to kiss to show how we felt…kissing wouldn’t have made a difference.

        Reply ↓

        • Kissing is just a part of the package, but treating it as a reward to be earned after already having sex just throws everything off to me.

          Reply ↓

    • “why the hell are you giving up the more important s.e.x.ual organs up for free to others who aren’t worthy of your face?”

      LOL, I mentioned this below. I don’t have good logic behind that feeling but I supposed innately I felt my face/mouth was more important. I do more with my mouth…more people see my face/mouth…

      Reply ↓

      • See…I understand you use your mouth on a daily basis, and your face is instantly the most recognizable feature you have on your body. HOWEVER…your inner WIP is the most important part of your body, as it is the defining feature that makes you a woman. Why would you be willing to put it in the line of fire more so than any other body part, when it is the main body part you spend every day protecting at all times? (think of the clothes you wear, the soaps you use, the tampons, etc)

        Reply ↓

        • 1. The vj is not the defining feature that makes you a woman. There are several biological features and then a few others, chromosomal, hormonal, etc.

          2. Use of the VJ does not harm the owner unless she decides to attach emotional value to its vacancy.

          3. Use of the VJ does not harm the VJ or the owner. Condoms. Condoms. Condoms.

          Reply ↓

          • 1) Regardless of chemical biology, the vj is the defining feature of women on a base level, just as the peen is the defining feature of men on a base level (let’s keep this cave man simple, don’t need to get complicated)

            2) Isn’t there emotional value to everything we do? You watch a movie when you want to be entertained, the emotion there is boredom.

            3) It’s not about the use harming anyone. It’s about the fact that if the vj isn’t held in high regard, then why are so many things in place to protect the vj every day?

            You do with it what you will, but I feel like your whole body should be special. You start doling out rules for some parts, while the other parts can get used up however, then it doesn’t really feel all that special, no matter the gender.

            Reply ↓

            • I think everything about a woman should be held in high regard. from every high and low of her personality to the wisdom and life lessons hat constitutes her expression to the chemicals that create her physiological processes to every ounce and inch of her body. its all special and it should be kept under lock and key. I think men have to have an understanding an a sense of cherishing and valuing a woman, all encompassing, before hes allowed to be intimte with her. I’m not slicing and dicing for anyone. thats crazy to me, carving yourself up like that and just handing yourself over for whatever reason. I’m definitely not into doing the do or partially the do with just any ol body. smh.

              Reply ↓

              • And that’s all I’m saying. The person herself is a prize for me, and I’d treat her as such. I might think about smashing for the sake of smashing, but in reality, that’s not where my head is at when I deal with a woman.

                Reply ↓

      • No. I’m saying if I have a problem even touching a woman with my finger, then my mouth and peen wouldn’t go near it either. All my body parts are going to be held in high regard, I’m not doing anything I don’t want, nor am I going to be selective about certain things.

        I go all out or nothing at all. Fawk that selective shyte.

        Reply ↓

  23. Interestingly enough, I just finished a chapter in my persuasion class on the concept of “reciprocity.” Apparently, this very universal concept is the reason why humans have made it this far in history; because a society that gives and receives and keeps the whole circle of life going benefits the entire human race. Do I think the human race benefits from giving and receiving oral sex? That might be a stretch. BUT, it has been proven that obligation to return a favor is an innate human feature (for most folks.) This obligation is FURTHER felt if the initial gift or favor is offered without even being asked. That’s why homeless folks press paper flowers into your hand or why folks try to squeegie your windows clean before you get a chance to say anything. Most people naturally feel obligated to do a favor in return.

    Anyway, enough of grad school sucking all the fun out of this article. lol

    Carry on…

    (But if you want to read more about it, I recommend Cialdini’s “Influence: Science and Practice)

    Reply ↓

  24. “women who you’re trying to trick into letting you hit”

    I hate when men use this tactic to GTD (get the draws).

    Him: Aww come on baby lemme just eat it up and go.
    Me: Negro you a DAMN lie!

    I’m old enough to know you let a horny man get close to the kitty he’s gonna be harder than chinese arithmetic and will do any and everything in his power to get it.

    Reply ↓

    • “I’m old enough to know you let a horny man get close to the kitty he’s gonna be harder than chinese arithmetic and will do any and everything in his power to get it.”

      sometimes you don’t even have to be close. just a whiff of it is enough

      Reply ↓

  25. Meh.. I never give expecting to receive but that’s mostly because I’m not too interested in receiving. Most guys just play around awkwardly and I don’t care to be a teacher or to waste 20 minutes while you try and figure it out. But then there are some guys that I have deliberately made give me head and then bounced with no reciprocating or sexing. I consider it suitable punishment for a bad date. This probably makes me a horrible person….

    Meh..

    Reply ↓

  26. How many times are we going to beat off on this? So, is this the new etiquette. You lick me and I’ll lick you back and we will all live happily ever after. This new value system is sh*t is fcked up. I do it because I want to and it’s the warm up to the main event. If I have to negotiate with you for you to do then I don’t want you to because you will probably do a half azz job and I’ll loose interest in you and leave. I am a victim of too many horny women who love to give because they love to give. It give them pleasure to show off their skill set and based on their ability they know you will want to return the favor.

    Reply ↓

    • We should just all love to do the act, makes life easier.

      Seriously, I don’t find how it can be weirder to stick my tongue in some wet-wet than it is to stick the peen in there. Either way, she’s going to let a river flow.

      Reply ↓

  28. I remember HOWLING @ that scene!!! Those of you who don’t watch Louie (& are judging based solely on this clip) don’t know what you’re missing, it’s one of the best on right now…

    As for reciprocity, the way it usually goes is he does me & I eventually do him. Not a fan of casual sex myself, this is relationship stuff. I don’t just pass that ish out… Everybody gets theirs… eventually… LOL

    Reply ↓

  29. The thing is I like giving head, full stop. I think it’s because of all the problem solving involved. One, there are more parts down there, and each woman has their particular tastes, from GED simple to make-Lex-Steele-and-Ron-Jeremy-send-you-letters-of-commendation and everything in between. So long as women are clean down there (and sadly, this isn’t a 100% guarantee), I just love to do it. For me, it’s a way to do something nice for a woman and a way to show off my skills. On top of that, back when I was dating, when a date was mediocre, it’s a good way to send them off happy before you lose their number. I give head because I like to, full stop. What the woman does is up to her.

    That said, I pay attention to how the woman reacts. Of course, if she chooses to reciprocate, it’s all good. Just don’t give me obligation head, because I’ll be obliged to lose touch with you. If a woman doesn’t give head though, it’s not a show stopper depending on what else she does. If she has this whole “ninja, get out of here” look or, worse yet, “why ain’t you just magically hard to hump me, and no I’m not helping you there buddy”, that’s when I hit the bathroom, wash my face, then bounce. No country for selfish chicks.

    On the flip side, if a woman is like “hey, head isn’t my thing, but lemme show you what I got”, I’ll roll with it. I’ve been amazed at some of the alternatives I’ve gotten. Interestingly enough, some of the best handjobs I’ve gotten were from women who don’t give head. (That said, I have had women who’ve had to explain that an erect peen is, in fact, attached to a human being, but that’s another story.)

    With me, it’s all in your attitude. If you’re a giving person, you won’t be afraid to give. If you’re selfish, it’ll show. Oh, and if you aren’t willing to discuss this at some point before bedroom activities commence, that’s a red flag right there that, even if we do go through with it, will make me question how far things are going to go.

    Reply ↓

    • Todd, answer me this.

      What’s the best part about being the Oral Man? (stand with a superhero pose as you read that).

      For me, there’s just an awesome feeling I get from knowing that every flicker of the tongue has her moaning, twitching, thrashing, gasping for air, or trembling. The skills pay the bills but like you said, it’s all in the attitude. Knowing someone is willing to work with is way more of a compliment than someone assuming you have it all figured out. Especially someone new, as you can’t repeat the same moves on every woman, and you’d think they’d know that but alas….nope.

      Reply ↓

      • I like the idea of just being able to figure out a woman with the right set of moves. Yes, there’s passion there, but being able to figure out on the spot what makes a woman go whoa in a few minutes is fun. It’s kind of like the appeal of NASCAR to me: because for all the fast cars involved, it ultimate gets down to the science of it all.

        Of course, I managed to marry one of the few women who aren’t into oral, but when she’s in that rare mood, she’s have to shank my mother AND brother on the same day for me to turn it down. I like head that much. :)

        Reply ↓

        • I feel like it’s an adventure, taking the time to explore the body until you find the right places to touch, like a hidden passage way that requires a combination. It’s awesome.

          I’m not into oral for myself, doesn’t do much for me…but I’ll never turn it down after the job I’ve done for her.

          Reply ↓

      • lol…I’m picturing a brotha with a big “O” on his chest instead of the superman “S” and a tongue logo inside the “O”. LOOK! UP IN THE SKY, IT’S ORAL MAN!

        Reply ↓

    • “I have had women who’ve had to explain that an erect peen is, in fact, attached to a human being, but that’s another story”

      Since you mentioned, you might as well finish the story!! Thanks much…..

      Reply ↓

      • I’ve had women pull it so hard that it hurt a lot. I’ve also had women treat my parts like a baseball bat or a broomstick, then wonder why I’m getting soft. Gee, maybe me saying “hey, stop that!” would be a hint. Most get the hint and follow directions after that, but there are some who just keep going like it’s all good. I swear there are so many men just glad to get a little sumthin’ sumthin’ that they lie to these women about their skills. Grr…

        Reply ↓

        • “I’ve had women pull it so hard that it hurt a lot.”

          D*mn. Do they think it’s detachable? That’d be nice and all but it isn’t lol

          Reply ↓

          • Some girls get this death grip, as if somehow slowly chafing the skin is going to make us cum fast.

            No. Punch you quicker? Yea.

            Reply ↓

  30. Story time: A guy moved in to the apt across the hall from me last year. Right after he met me, he started badgering me to eat my pussy. I was like, “no way, loser.” I wasnt attracted to him, plus his stock went waaay down by him even asking me that. He was persistant if nothing else. This went on for months; him begging for a taste, me saying hell no. I wouldnt touch this guy with a 10 foot pole. He was a wack, thirsty, LAME. However, one day, right before i moved out of that building, i was feeling horny, so i knocked on his door. YOLO, right? Omg, when i tell yall it was the fire-est head ive had in all my life?! Boi had SKILLZ. No wonder he was always bragging bout what he would do! I didnt reciprocate (gross!), moved away, & never saw him again. But boi, am i glad i got to experience that head *shivers* :-)

    Reply ↓

  31. The act discussed in this post is all about expressing love & not about “getting off/ feeling good”— but that’s how I feel about all things shmexual. It makes life a lot easier (for both men & women) when you have a foundation of trust, love & honesty before it gets intimate.

    Reply ↓

    • Copy and paste Ice Royalty. Though I wish we could end the Ice Monarchy and have a proper responsible government. Now how many seats to put in the Ice Parliament? :)

      Reply ↓

      • Nope, theres only dictatorship in the Ice Kingdom. Since you broght it up, i guess you can be the prince. It makes sense for us to be brother & sister since we’re both white lmmfao. WC & PA are the king & queen, and TUK is the court jester.

        Reply ↓

  33. “If you go down on someone, do you expect them to go down on you too?”

    Wow. I’m guessing most of this conversation won’t be safe for work so I’ll get all my thoughts out here…

    No.
    When I was new to the game, if you will, guys would always offer or@l as a way to entice me to going further. I would explicitly tell them I wasn’t ready for for chex or, especially, reciprocation. They said they didn’t care. Of course once the deed was done, they tried to change my mind. No hard feelings, I told them straight up. I don’t believe it was ever held against me. (As I got older I realized that probably wasn’t the game I should be playing- just bad business).

    To me or@l is more. Putting something in my mouth is a big deal. Should it be a bigger deal than putting something in my hooha? Probably not, but it is. I’m sure there’s some food relation there but I won’t analyze it now. I still have some hang-ups now even with the man I trust..but I push through, LOL. Fake it ’til I make it.

    Performing a chexual act is a personal decision. If it matters that much you should ask your partner who he/she feels about it. If you aren’t at a point that you can ask, I think it’s obvious that you shouldn’t be making that move in the first place.

    BTW- I saw that episode too. I couldn’t believe he actually did it. She bullied him a little but he could have taken her; he aint have to do it, LOL. I believe her words were something along the lines of “strap on the feedbag.”

    Reply ↓

    • I’m aware that people hold certain acts in regard due to something they’ve experienced. The problem is whatever that reason is, it’s not properly explained. Then it’s no wonder why people will try to talk you into doing what you said you wouldn’t do, because the reason never comes off strong.

      I dunno. I personally hold what’s in my pants in high regard. It’s less important than my mouth, which I use every day and stick all kinds of things in on a daily basis (food, cups, straws, my fingers, her lips, etc). If I had to hesitate to gave face, I should feel the same way about secking. Clearly though, we’re not all equal, and everyone has their own individual motivations.

      But damnit WIP, you too damn lusty looking to be having limitations!

      Reply ↓

      • LOl @ lusty. I you’ll be hard-pressed to argue gen!tal function over a mouth’s function. I was also raised to believe or@l was generally taboo and something nasty people did. I completely understand the logic- if you wouldn’t put your mouth on someone, why would you sleep with them at all? All I can say is that there were many times when my body was calling me to do one thing and not the other.

        Reply ↓

        • I get it, as I used to feel the same when I was younger. Then I got older and something made me realize porn was a lie, so if I was going to have sexual relations of any kind, either I’m all in or not at all. But despite all my questioning, I do respect your decisions.

          Reply ↓

  35. This is my rule: If you aren’t comfortable communicating about it with them, you shouldn’t be doing it with them.

    I love myself too much to sacrifice my health and well being for a quick nut. Whether it’s through oral sex or intercourse, it doesn’t matter.

    Reply ↓

  36. I generally try to steer clear of oral sex. For me, I had one too many awkward moments during sex- and oral sex is very high on the list.

    The last woman I yodeled in the valley with, it got too good to her she accidentally kicked me in the face.

    This other girl from several years earlier played with the skin flute and I gave her an unintended facial- she’s still mad at me to this very day about that…*skeet skeet skeet skeet*

    So yeah, I’m probably going to lay off that for a while.

    P.S.: Don’t ban me Liz! LMAO!

    Reply ↓

    • “The last woman I yodeled in the valley with, it got too good to her she accidentally kicked me in the face.”

      I actually did kick someone in the face, once.
      *cackles*

      Reply ↓

    • You got kicked in the face? That’s crazy.

      I’ve been suffocated by thick thighs on numerous occasions. I’m aware if that happens, it means I did a good job. That still doesn’t change the fact that people tried to kill me while I was doing them a good service.

      Not appreciated at all.

      Reply ↓

  37. Luv receiving…IF you know what you’re doing down there. If not, please don’t waste me time. I will ask you to stop. As far as giving…I’m like Louie, i have to feel comfortable with you like that or else…so sorry. If we’re in a relationship, it’s all good cause I love making her “O” BUT I get off first there’s a really good chance I just might roll over and go to sleep. Sooooo, yeah there’s that.

    Reply ↓

  38. In my opinion, oral sex comes standard. I enjoy both giving and receiving and if a potential partner doesn’t feel the same, we are imcompatible.

    Reply ↓

  40. Hmmm how can I respond w/o looking extra slu.tty???

    When I was younger it was an ewww situation & if a guy was nasty enough & did it, I did NOT reciprocate nor did I kiss him again… Fast forward 20 or so years… I’m not into give to receive as a rule but more as a feeling… I don’t have middle school se.x I have straight up grown ppl time sotypically I’m ALL in…yes there was a time when I would laugh & drop trou for every guy that attempted the just llet me lick it line…oh well son, that what u said u wanted.. but now in my old age, If I’m that attracted to a person that my clothes are coming off then its about to be ON… I’ve never had a person not reciprocate whole heartedly if I did it 1st…

    Reply ↓

    • “When I was younger it was an ewww situation & if a guy was nasty enough & did it, I did NOT reciprocate nor did I kiss him again… ”

      This sounds just like me! I use to say “you eat coochie… not me”. lol

      Reply ↓

    • Yoles, you kinky gal.

      Nah you didn’t say anything wrong. And clearly you got some wisdom.

      God watch over the next man you rape before his clothes come off.

      Reply ↓

    • “now in my old age, If I’m that attracted to a person that my clothes are coming off then its about to be ON…”

      I approve this message. :D
      You and me, Yoles, we right >>>>HERE<<<<< with this.

      Reply ↓

  41. watching that scene though, can I just say that was sexual assault. without a doubt. not even remotely funny. like if that happened in irl he should legitimately call the police. someone breaks a window with your head and forces you into a sexual act with threats? that wasnt funny. at all. but I DID laugh when he was like ‘yeah we can go out again.’ smh. but that was…just na. and tf @ that being on FX. I thought that was a relatively censored channel like abc or something. geez.

    Reply ↓

    • No one would believe him. That’s the problem with calling sexual assualt against a woman. We can’t prove it unless drugs or alcohol were involved, or we are underage teenagers or something like that. Cops will laugh in your face. Trust me on that.

      Reply ↓

  42. This entire post is making me snort-laugh like Steve Urkel. Honestly, I never realized the whole oral sex conversation was a big deal until fairly recently.

    *looks around….checks the locks….closes the blinds….turns off the lights*

    I LOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOVE giving head (IN A MONOGAMOUS RELATIONSHIP)! If I expound, this will turn into an X-rated conversation and I’m not trying to go there. But giving (for me) is almost always better than receiving. It just doesn’t….feel….

    You know what? I give up. I can’t say what I want without being explicit. I’ll see y’all tomorrow. LOL

    Reply ↓

  43. “If you go down on someone, do you expect them to go down on you too?”

    Yup. and yup.

    ” If so, why, and if not, why not?”
    It’s a pre-req anyway. I wouldn’t be gettin’ down with anyone, who isn’t trying to get his meal on in the first place.

    “Also, do you consider oral sex to be more intimate than just plain ole f*ckin?”

    Nope.

    Reply ↓

  44. Pingback: Mark Cuban Buys Nets.com To Call Out Mikhail Prokhorov | Day & A Dream

  45. Why couldn’t she have just opted for a 6*9 instead of doing it to him first? That way, she can test whether or not he would reciprocate. If she sees that he’s not doing anything, she can stop. Durrrrr.

    Reply ↓

  46. I am not too big on giving or receiving, other than the visual, it does little for me. I came for penetration, sandwiches, and if the mood strikes me, a little bondage.

    Reply ↓

  47. Obsidian’s post today was spot on.

    In my world I find that if you do your work (correctly) above the waste a woman will check your love below – with enthusiasm and vigor – without fail. Even women who claim not to like giving H or that they don’t do it much/at all. No need for head shoves or can we talk moments. They will volunteer.

    To me giving head is like giving gifts. I give good gifts, and I don’t give gifts to everyone. The giving is about me wanting to share with that person.
    I don’t give gifts in hopes of swaps or exchanges. In swaps some one always ends up with a wacker gift.

    Despite how many people engage in it giving head is gift giving….and don’t give me a gift unless it comes from a place of wanting to give. If you’re doing it for reciprocation you’re doing it for the wrong reason and I dont want it.

    Reply ↓

    • True. Sex in general is supposed to be a gift. If you give something out for free all the time, and charge some people a fee, can’t be mad that they file a complaint against that ass.

      And giving just to get something in return, no matter what scenario in life it involves, never serves a good purpose.

      Reply ↓

  48. I’ve always been more of a giver than a receiver, and didn’t get dome until I was 19- and it Sucked (no pun). I never had it til then but I watched enough vids to know Ole Girl wasn’t doing it right. I also Never Came from head until my current gf, which is why I never cared much for it.

    I’m selective to who I go down on as well; [some] ladies don’t have good habits cleaning themselves, or ‘forget’ that Damon killed it the night before, or even Tommy a few hours earlier and an Expereinced Nympho can smell and look at a nani and tell by the looks of it. STD/STI Holders come in Both Genders, not just Men…….

    Giving is simple- the wetter the nani, the better it is for the stroke, plus a woman will be guessing if the D is as good (or better) as the Tongue Action anyways

    Reply ↓

    • Hmm…that’s interesting.

      I never came from head. Ever. And any girl I ever said it to, they have to prove they’ll be the one to fix that. Still hasn’t worked. 5 years in with my girl and she’s still trying to change fate. It’s not going to happen, and I don’t even care about getting it, but it does look awesome. I’m just a natural giver.

      Reply ↓

      • It’s a double-standard that is damn near impossible to fix, I guess. To Me, Men can’t Fail at giving head; if we can master button-combos on a game controller in Mortal Kombat/Street Fighter then learning how to use the tongue should be no problem at all

        A Woman that can make a Man cum from head has No Business complaining about swallowing- that’s all I got to say about that.

        Outside of the things that People do to show affection and love, Oral Sex and the Kama Sutra are the keys to Bliss in a relationship (to Me at least). I have no reason to cheat when I have a smart, beautiful, and sexy nympho like me that does me like she’s slurping a smoothie……

        Reply ↓

        • I wonder about that. All of my female friends have given me stories of horrible head from men. I ask how can it be horrible, all he has to do is lick the clyt. But apparently that’s a direction quite a few men can’t follow

          Reply ↓

      • You sound like my ex. He never did either. Just made him wonder what the puddy felt like.Yet another reason why if if one of us decides to go down, we better not be stopping. No half way stuff.

        Reply ↓

  49. Funny reading these replies, it seems as if people have a good amount of hang ups when it comes to the art of oral stimulation…

    As Nunya said upthread: In my opinion, oral sex comes standard. I enjoy both giving and receiving and if a potential partner doesn’t feel the same, we are imcompatible

    That’s pretty much the bottom line for me. I think a lot of people are putting too much emphasis on one particular act. I personally find it so cliche when guys say stuff like “I don’t eat p*ssy, that’s reserved for my wife” Like, n*gga WHAT?! That’s some ol diva dude sh*t right there. If you don’t do it now, you’re not all the sudden going to start cause you get married. Just an excuse. I’ve lived my life on the premise that REAL MEN EAT P*SSY. Man up and stop bein scurred. End of story.

    (Disclaimer – no I don’t believe you should do this for ‘everyone’ that you meet but I also don’t think its some ultimate selfless act of charity only to be bestowed on those who have proven their worthiness etc. etc. Get over yourselves. Its just another part of sex. And in case you’re curious yes, I believe in returning the favor ;-) )

    Reply ↓

    • “I don’t eat p*ssy, that’s reserved for my wife” Like, n*gga WHAT?! That’s some ol diva dude sh*t right there”

      So because a man chooses to exercises principle, and reserves a certain act he views as a privaledge for his life partner, that makes him a ‘diva dude’? Hmmnn…interesting.
      So are men who remain chaste until they are married ‘Diva dudes’ also?

      I’m just curious because I wasnt aware that nyamming out some gyal’s crotches was a sign of manhood.

      Reply ↓

      • Well I’d say most men (or women) who choose to remain chaste until marriage have some religious basis for doing so which is a different matter.

        My comments about manhood partially in jest – everyone has a right to choose or exercise discretion.. but as some others have said upthread, I honestly feel if you’re not comfortable putting your mouth down there, you really should not be engaging in chexual relations with that person to begin with. Or if you do, you shouldn’t expect any oral satisfaction either. But chex without any oral activities is just boring to me. Not to mention DRY as f*ck.

        Oral is like priming the pump (literally and figuratively).

        Reply ↓

        • I like this comment but the one thing that makes me think is, a womans body naturally lubricates itself when shes arroused. when a man stimulates her she lubricates specifically to make sex enjoyable and easier. if youre puss is dry your body is telling you ‘I dont want this’ but now I wonder what pushes women to act on chex anyway.

          Reply ↓

          • Ehhh not necessarily… there have been plenty of times when I’ve been ‘in the mood’ but that doesn’t always translate into ‘the Nile river’ down below.. or sometimes i’ll start off gushy and then over the course of chex it’ll get kind of dry..

            Doesn’t mean I’m not turned on or into it.. just like men sometimes need a little ‘help’ or extra stimulation, women do too sometimes.. The body and the mind are always in sync.

            Not to mention there are a myriad of other factors that can contribute to women’s moistness factor down there – like where she is in her cycle, hormone levels, other medical reasons, etc.

            Reply ↓

        • @BK Sweetheart
          Oral chex is a regualr, routine part of your chexual activities and lifestyle. Thats cool. I can dig it. :-) But seriously, for some others, its not the business. To many, sucking on another person’s crotch is not appealing in any means. P*ssy and d*ck were designed for union. So its unfair to conclude that because someone is uncomfortable placing their mouth on genitalia, they shouldnt be having chex at all. Thats nonsense. Many people aint with @nal chex, or salad tossing, so it would be silly to conclude the same about them.
          You love oreos, and thats cool. lol. :-) Got Milk?

          Reply ↓

          • @Sobo – *giggles*

            You’re taking my comment about slightly out of context. I meant when a guy’s aversion to it is ‘person specific’ in the sense like ‘D*mn Shaniqua gives some bomb a** head but no way I’d ever go down on her .” So its ok for you to stick your peen inside and ok for me to give you head but you can’t return the favor?

            If its a matter of cleanliness, why are you having chex with a supposed dirty broad. If its just the thought or incorrect belief that the P is inherently unclean – as I said in another comment, its actually much cleaner and more sanitary than the inside of your mouth.

            And lastly, if your concern is STD related – unless your wearing a c*ndom when she goes down on you, you can still get an STD. You can also get it from just kissing as well.

            So overall I feel that most mens’ fears or apprehension of it are based in myth and misinformation.

            Reply ↓

    • Honestly, I respect diva dudes for not eating the Nermal. Cannibalism is not and never will be hot in the streets.

      And I’m not saying this applies to you, I mean, you seam tasty enough from our limited internet interactions, but sometimes when a man says “I don’t go down” what you should hear is “I’m not going down on you”. Same with women I suppose.

      Reply ↓

      • I don’t begrudge any man that doesn’t want to eat the P.. but then it comes full circle back to my original comment that if thats the case, we’re obviously not chexually compatible. NEXT.

        Why is it Chris Rock can say stuff like girls that don’t give head is the equivalent of a beta max like “they still make you?!” and guys are doing the Dougie, the cabbage patch, hoopin and hollerin…. Let a woman say that –> *crickets*

        FYI – personally I have *rarely* met a guy that was unwilling to do that. I don’t know if I’ve just been lucky or I probably unknowingly weeded those guys out from the get go as their diva dude-ish/stick up the azz ways probably foreshadowed their preferences.

        Reply ↓

        • Mainly for the reasons and the ways people explain why they won’t do it.

          There’s still grown ass women who say “eww” when it comes to head, like we’re still in 10th grade. Go sit in the corner.

          With men, they bullshyte and talk a lot of junk, but at least if smart, they won’t talk about your gentials like it is a garbage dump. I have some refer it to as a horrible thing, but then I questioned the women they were smanging.

          Reply ↓

  50. Ahhh, the ire of the ‘Mad Header’. *tisk, tisk*

    If one gives with the expectation to receive, then justice has been rightfully served when the act is not reciprocated.

    The ‘Mad Header’ is a selfish giver. Their head is disingenuous because it is c*ms packaged with expectations. What sucks for the ‘Mad Header’<-see what I did there– is that the disingenuous head he/she is giving is indistinguishable from genuine head in it’s pleasure. It is only thereafter, the once pleasant head giver who’s mood has now soured because the favor was not returned, that the reciever learns he/she has just received head from…..a ‘Mad Header’.
    No sympathy for the ‘Mad Headers’ out there.

    All is right with the world.

    Reply ↓

    • Never thought of it that way, but that is true.

      if someone does something for you for the sole purpose of getting something in return, you can’t tell how they feel about you nor how genuine they are.

      Reply ↓

  51. Well damn at this topic. I will respond anyway but damn. lol

    Anyway, people of VSB.com, what do you think? If you go down on someone, do you expect them to go down on you too? If so, why, and if not, why not?
    No I don’t expect them to. Some people don’t like giving in that way. It’d be nice if you returned the favor though. Very nice.

    Also, do you consider oral sex to be more intimate than just plain ole f*ckin?
    Yes I do. I mean, I consider kissing too intimate to do with some men, so putting my mouth on his genitals…well. I’d have to reeeaaally like and trust him.

    Reply ↓

  52. I’m old. In the old days, before internet vulgarity and abstinence only education, yeah I said that, oral was something you didnt ask for. You just waited till the kinky time bell rang.

    Why abstinence only education? I have a theory. Oral used to be kinky. Extra. What nasty people did. Now you got these kids running around trying to save their genitals like its a limited consumable and it will run out. But they gonna do everything BUT and including the butt. Cuz intercourse is the third rail and sacred. Everything else is just touching.

    To me thats backwards. I’m old. But the peen is SPOSED to go in the vj. Lips are SPOSED to go on lips. Everything else is kink. Extra. Oral is service. Submission. Dont believe me? People be asking for and accepting oral from people they find disgusting, stupid. People they would never be seen in public with. You think youre not degrading youself licking someone who has no regard for you? Ok.

    Imma be over here. The stuff in your pants aint clean. Its ugly and participates in disgusting activities. If im gonna put it in my mouth, it will be because we have developed some trust and respect and I like you a lot. Dont gotta be engaged, but im not gonna lick you first night either. If you wanna lick me, fine. But were gonna do the do. If you dont wanna lick me, im cool with that. But if we get naked, were gonna do the do.

    Reply ↓

    • “But they gonna do everything BUT and including the butt. Cuz intercourse is the third rail and sacred. Everything else is just touching.”

      This is seriously a common trend and it p*sses me off. You aren’t a virgin anymore, hon. Sorry.

      Reply ↓

    • Umm… I’m older. But, I can see where you’re coming from with that line of thinking. I haven’t had that many partners either. Just a lot of the same ones. Sue me. I’m selective in who I sleep with, but once I’m his, it’s time to do the nasty in all sorts of interesting ways and I want the whole enchilada. As I’ve been told, it’s all or nothing with me.

      As for head tho, to be quite honest, I don’t really ‘like’ giving head, but I attribute that to a mental block. Like you said, “But the peen is SPOSED to go in the vj. Lips are SPOSED to go on lips.” I do it and have had no complaints from my partners. I don’t do it because I enjoy it, but because they do. Isn’t that what giving is all about? Yeah, I thought so. ;)

      Reply ↓

      • As for head tho, to be quite honest, I don’t really ‘like’ giving head, but I attribute that to a mental block. Like you said, “But the peen is SPOSED to go in the vj. Lips are SPOSED to go on lips.” I do it and have had no complaints from my partners. I don’t do it because I enjoy it, but because they do. Isn’t that what giving is all about? Yeah, I thought so. ;)

        And thus ends the Oldhead portion of your VSB Day. Coming up next… ;)

        Reply ↓

    • Why abstinence only education? I have a theory. Oral used to be kinky. Extra. What nasty people did. Now you got these kids running around trying to save their genitals like its a limited consumable and it will run out. But they gonna do everything BUT and including the butt. Cuz intercourse is the third rail and sacred. Everything else is just touching.

      You’re in the right direction, but I don’t think abstinence only education was what started it. It definitely helped, especially in some parts of America, but it wasn’t what popped things off.

      Being that I’ve had sex with people up and down the age range, I’d say the biggest thing is HIV. All of a sudden, the ol’ P in V could get you killed, instead of you running to the clinic for a shot. People started searching for alternatives, and then came the rise in head. For whatever reason, if you didn’t reach puberty by 1983, the game completely changed, and I still notice the after-effects. It’s not that it’s either/or on either side of the line, but there is a pronounced shift.

      Reply ↓

      • This makes no sense because any ingestion of semen no matter how small can transmit HIV. It’s less likely but not so unlikely you should play Russian roulette.

        Reply ↓

    • “You think youre not degrading youself licking someone who has no regard for you? Ok.”

      THIS^^^^^^

      I wholeheartedly agree, that is why giving ORAL is very intimate to me and something I only do within the confines of a Serious Relationship and beyond that is why I NEVER ask or expect to receive; they be munching on their own accord, and quite honestly it’s a turn-off how men are so quick to put in face time on GP.

      Reply ↓

      • I’m with you and WC on this one. If I feel the guy has no interest in me, why would I do that to him? Most importantly, why would I do that to myself? Oral is very intimate and I reserve it for someone who is passionate about me and desires me sexually.

        Reply ↓

    • This makes perfect sense. Not doing it is somewhat out of style (I believe Chris Rock said when he meets a woman that doesn’t give he thinks “they still make you?”) but I completely understand why a person would be opposed to or@l chex altogether.

      Reply ↓

    • There’s nothing wrong with the old school. I actually prefer it to what my generation does. I can’t explain the people who are fast in the pants. All I can see is that if you are willing to share your body with someone else, they shouldn’t digust you in anyway, otherwise all you’re saying is you’ll forgo your morals to bust a nut. I’ve been there, I realized it was wrong & weird, didn’t do it again.

      Reply ↓

  53. I never ask BUT if you feel so inclined to I WILL NOT stop you but please know that I will not be returning the gesture. Honestly though I never had issues where I was expected to return the favor after receiving.

    Reply ↓

  54. Giving head is fun. I love that part at the end, right before the eruption, when the sack tightens all up and he’s making all kinds of weird faces and noises…

    Where were we? Oh yes. Getting head, on the other hand, is only fun when I’m getting it from someone who truly enjoys doing it. I don’t require reciprocity, because that’s not even the point. As far as the intimacy of it, it all depends on how it’s done. You can give it intimately (like getting really into it, lots of touching, talking dirty, just being an all-around freak with it) or you can go through the motions. Same thing with sex. It’s all about intentions and execution.

    Reply ↓

  55. You know..it’s funny
    It could be old age catchin up to me but nowadays if I’m too uncomfortable or grossed out with a chicks lady parts to put my mouth on it….then I’m also not putting master wang in or near it.

    For master wang is as sacred as my tongue

    Woof…

    Reply ↓

  56. I’m kinda torn. I dealt with an older woman who wouldn’t pay homage by any means, but the sex was freakin’ phenomenal. Like, I would’ve cleaned her house if she asked phenomenal. Then there was the woman who was all for it, and seemed to enjoy it. Yet she was utterly terrible.

    I guess it’s all up to how someone feels about it, and also the communication.

    Reply ↓

  57. No i dont think he should do it just because I did, for one, I need you to WANT to do it so that when you do it you can do it like its an event in the Olympics and you are trying to go for gold! You cant have that Olympic type of passion for winning unless you absolutely want to do it in the first place lol.

    Reply ↓

  58. VSB Question of the Day
    So for all the proponents, can’t do withouters, and vehement advocators of ‘oreo chex’ on here, I have a curious question: How do you feel about ‘snowballing’?

    * Note: I first heard of the practice on the movie “Clerks”. If you are unfamiliar with the term [snowballing], google is your best friend.

    Reply ↓

  59. I just went to the bank … and then got some good head. Then I come back to work to read this article. hahahaha.

    No, it wasn’t reciprocated… I had to get back to work!

    Reply ↓

  60. I remember when i saw that epsiode.
    first off you are the reason i even watch louie and i wondered if you would write about it.
    LOL that shyt was mad awkwardly hilarious
    in my pre wifed up life i was notorious for getting the head and doing the “turn to the left”
    thats what me and my friends referred to as the shut down that occurs after you get the mouth from a dude you have no intention of kissing, f!cking and definitely not sucking
    lol its called that because you turn to the left and curl up preventing any further contact.
    looking back that shyt is mad shady and as fully grown up adult i do not condone such actions.
    hindsight is always 20/20
    i dont think you should engage in any s.e.xual activity with a person you dont trust enought to return the favor…
    i mean thats one of the most sensitive and intimate parts of yourself and to expose it to a ninja you wouldnt let touch you under any other circumstances is crazy.
    just as crazy as a ninja that puts his/her mouth on any and everybody

    Reply ↓

    • “i dont think you should engage in any s.e.xual activity with a person you dont trust enought to return the favor…”

      pretty much!

      Reply ↓

  61. I don’t think you should insert you penis inside anyone who the thought of giving head to creeps you out.

    I also don’t think giving head has to be reciprocated.

    Reply ↓

  62. Pingback: The Intimacy Spectrum | Very Smart Brothas

  63. Out of all the interesting points and viewers I’ve read I just have to ask…. Why the black girl white girl have to be pulled? Does that not get old?! Woman are woman

    Reply ↓

  65. I just learned a lot from reading the comments, let alone the original blog post. In the single sexual relationship i ha, i never once considered asking him to return the favor. In fact, i discouraged him when he offered (but that’s another story). I enjoyed what i was doing and his reactions to what i was doing. Nowadays i’m not with anyone, but i’d like to think that if i was and i actually wanted him to perform oral sex for me, he would. I agree that it’s an extremely intimate act, but anyone who gets me into his bed will have had to go through a lot to get me there. So if he’s not comfortable with it at that point, then it would say a lot about our relationship.

    Reply ↓

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