Pop Culture, Theory & Essay

The Theory About Lists, Growth, and Love Over Time

Theory-RealityI’ve got a theory I want to drop off on you cool cats. It’s a theory draped in the narrative of…of…hmm…gender-specific mating-centric relationshipism. While they say that proper planning prevents poor performance, Little Richard taught us that a wop bob a loo bop a wop bam boom. Same thing really.

Back to this theory about this narrative. What I’m about to posit will largely engender stereotypes and generalizations. While some of you may not appreciate or enjoy generalizations, I’m going to need you to clap along like you’re in a room without a roof. Be happy, people. Be happy.

I’m of the belief that most women do at some point craft some sort of list of desirable attributes in a mate. You know, the whole “man in her head” syndrome. The guy she dreams will ride in on his white (or racially ambiguous) horse…do animals have races? Maybe not races, I mean we know that animals have races (Man vs. Beast did happen after all) but I mean like races, you know animal social constructs based upon superficial characteristics and such. Like, you know how you should behold the pale horse? Is there a black horse we should behold to?

Consider my mind blown.

Back to this white (ugh, racist) horse that I think women are waiting for Prince Charming or Charmandejuan to ride on with his job, home, perfect teeth, nice body, ability to read, without children, with a savings account with actual savings, who is compassionate, empathetic, affectionate, hung like a horse (again, non-race specific), who not only washes dishes but WANTS to wash the dishes, rubs feet, goes to church, listens to only non-misogynistic hip-hop and/or gospel, 6’5″, etc. Basically, a list of the best qualities one can have and all that jazz. This is what I presume most women have. It might not look like this, and his name may not be Charming or Charmandejuan. Maybe its Bob. Or Siraaj. Or YOLO.

Well, did you know that us men have lists too? There a wee bit shorter. Especially when we’re younger.

Man List: hot. Read? Bonus. Cook? Bonus. Degree? Eh…bonus-ish.

Point is, in our youth, our lists look remarkably different. Here’s where my theory begins to rear its head.

Panama Theorem 2.5: As we get older, women start to remove things from their list and men start to add things to their list.

Removing things from your list isn’t settling, especially if the list is unreasonable to begin wtih. It’s more keeping in line with what actually matters in life and what’s truly important. So at some point, he need not be 6’5″ though it’s still preferred, but those list start to shrink, if not disappear altogether the older you get to the point of, “he made me an eggo, this morning, I’m in love.”

On the flipside, I’ve noticed that while in my youth all conversations pretty much started and ended with “is she hot?” (actually they still all start this way), the things that used to not be explicitly important like good person, fun, good conversationalist, nice, etc started to become more and more important. Now, you might look at that and and say, you basically want a balanced, well-rounded person, and you’d be right.

Now, the key to finding that person for you is that both of those “lists” (really just the things that matter to you most, like God, peanut butter, and Hall & Oates) to align. You happen to meet somebody who has those qualities you’ve reasonabled your list down to as a woman and improved your list up to as a man and #wallahmagic you may have found you a mate.

Of course, this ignores the efelant in the room of “you must find said person attractive” though read the fine print. They don’t have to be attractive, you just have to find them attractive. Which makes them attractive. Remember that horse thing?

Mind blown again.

Or more poetically, didn’t I blow your mind this time, didn’t I? Sing it like a Delfonic. What the f*ck is a Delfonic? You know aside from a member of the group. I do know that if you have more than one Delfonic, you have Delfonics. Fight me.

I just used 700 words to say this:

As we get older, men add things to their “list” of important characteristics and women remove things from their “list of important” characteristics. But along the way I blew your mind twice and mentioned the Delfonics. I won.

So, what say you? Is this theory off base? Does it have merit? Have you done this? I have. I saw the signs.

Talk to me.

-VSB P aka THE ARSONIST aka MR. SOLO DELFONIC, I MEAN, IF IT WAS LIKE THE 70S AND ALL WHICH ITS TOTALLY NOT aka GIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIRL  HE A 3

Damon Young

Panama Jackson is pretty fly for a light guy. When he's not saving humanity with his words or making music with his mouth, you can find him at your mama's mama's house drinking her fine liquors. He believes the children are our future and is waiting to find out if he is the 2nd most interesting man in the world.

  • Val

    Leaving a bit of room for variations amongst the genders, I would say your theory is mostly correct, PJ.

    • Sahel

      Splash Waterfalls

      • Val

        I hear the NSA has infiltrated Tor.

        • Sahel

          Even if they have,TOR is way too multi faceted for them to pinpoint anyone on the network

    • panamajackson

      How does that get downvoted? LoL.

      And thank you ma’am.

      • Val

        I have a secret un-admirer? Lol

      • http://TheNewEve.com/ Bunni

        Me and Val are downvoted just for saying hi lol #cuzgay

  • Cheekie Mae

    I’mma spit some free knowledge right quick — Panamathgorean Theorem: a-squared + b-squared = sexxy

    Ok.

    … hmm. Interesting theory. So, basically… as women get older we’re forced to compromise and as men get older, they’re forced to realize what’s truly important? Guess they’ll meet somewhere in the middle, then.

    • JayIzUrGod

      Indeed we do. With clothes on hopefully.

      • Cheekie Mae

        Hopefully? Even after dark? LOL

        • JayIzUrGod

          Well we have to be good first before we can be bad!

    • Sahel

      Is it compromise brought on internally or by external forces dictated by the SMP

      • http://www.twitter.com/IluminatiNYC Todd

        I would say a bit of both. The SMP gives men more power to dictate terms as they get older and women less power. In turn, men enter their peak with more experiences in relationships compared to women at their peak, so they know more of what’s going on.

      • Cheekie Mae

        It’s hump day and my brain on that low-low. What is SMP?

        • http://www.twitter.com/IluminatiNYC Todd

          SMP — sexual market place

    • panamajackson

      I’d argue that men being forced to realize whats important is a form of compromise too. Because you stop focusing solely on what we always thought mattered…looks. So while we were out there chasing women who didn’t want us, we finally realized that the girl next door was just as attractive, if not more b/c of who she is. just a diff type fo compromise. We shallow.

      • Cheekie Mae

        So, do you think men adding stuff to their list is, by default… giving up what was originally on their short list (i.e. “she hot.”)?

        • panamajackson

          Not completely, but recalibrating what “hot” even means.

          • Cheekie Mae

            gotcha.

  • T.Q. Fuego

    This theory is 100% accurate #cuzscience

    This part right here though:

    “Removing things from your list isn’t settling, especially if the list is unreasonable to begin wtih. It’s more keeping in line with what actually matters in life and what’s truly important.”

    That’s like the realest sh*t you could say. It could be repeated 5 times a day for the rest of the year and would still be understated. Once you check your expectations as well as your priorities against reality time puts steady pressure on folks to realize when they’re being unreasonable and/or unattractive.

    Men don’t grow up watching romance movies, soap operas, or dramas about social life that appeal to their ideal fantasies (in mates), we grow up watching sports. Plus we’re just naturally lower maintenance than women (it’s a generalization, sue me). So our lists are usually (relatively) simple. The basics of what matter most to us are the only requirements and everything else is icing on the cake. Then as we get older and have to becomes better (and more attractive) people in order to have any real success finding partners we realize that there’s a WIDE range of differences between women. (We also start to realize our own value).More importantly though we realize what we like and that we aren’t being unreasonable for asking for a lot of the things we want/like most. When we’re young we don’t really know what our preferences are or that many of them are actually realistic (and that there are countless chicks who not only don’t mind, but actually enjoy sharing those things with us). It pays to start with minimal expectations and an open mind.

    • nillalatte

      “we aren’t being unreasonable for asking for a lot of the things we want/like most”

      Touche’. So why y’all think women have ‘unreasonable’ lists of attributes they want in their man?

      • ratchet dialogue

        perhaps because they want x (financial security), yet they make y (minimum wage), and when put together, x+y does not compute. How can you aspire, when you are in despair, eh?

        TRIGGER WARNING: Minimum wage whilst looked down upon by many-internally, it is good oo. It can pay your bills, take care of your moda in the nursing home-if you put in 60 hours a week (it is now 8$ I believe), you can give to the poor, if you budget well….Basically it can do a lot, wipe those tears away.

        EPS, our boo, Toni Braxton’s new album Love, Marriage and Divorce, is the ISH! cop it.

        • http://vagabondaesthetics.tumblr.com/ Ricky

          Minimum wage varies by state. It’s as low as 5.15 (Georgia and Wyoming) and 9.32 (Washington). In 2016 it’ll be 10$ in California.

          • ratchet dialogue

            5.15??!?!?! I know the standard of living in these places is relatively VERY low compared to places like Chi, nyc, boston, and the like, but for heavens sake, how do they expect people to survive on $5?
            $10 seems like a lot, however Cali is an expensive state. It sho trumps surviving on $5. Unbelievable.

            • http://vagabondaesthetics.tumblr.com/ Ricky

              If minimum wage was actually adjusted to inflation it would be a little over 10$s actually.

              • Joel

                My main problem with raising minimum wage is this….What happens for those folks making $15-$20 an hour doing work that is above minimum wage? Do they get a raise, too? Because if not, it would then seem like my current job is that much closer to “minimum wage” after all the burger-flippers (I used to be one, I can say that non-condescendingly) get their 35-40 percent raise.

                • afronica

                  From what I understand, this is one of the reasons that Republicans or business owners often oppose the minimum wage. When you raise the min, people above the min start looking for a raise as well. I think economists call this type of thing a knock-on effect. While ideologues don’t like the idea of setting a floor, some business administrators/shareholders/owners are much more worried about the ripple effect throughout the entire wage structure.

                  Todd would probably be able to give a better explanation.

                • SuperStrings

                  I’m just curious why it matters. Is the value of our position determined by the nature of the work we do or by the distance between us and the bottom?

                  • Joel

                    If you’re going to bump someone up from $7.25 to $10 and their job qualifications, duties, and/or responsibilities don’t increase….you’ve just told someone making $7.25 that they’re that much closer to being worth $20 without putting in any additional work or learning any new skills. You’ve also devalued the position of someone making $20 an hour by making their pay that much closer to the minimum.

            • http://trulytafakari.com/ dtafakari

              ” how do they expect people to survive on $5? ”

              They don’t. And if you try to tell opponents of raising min. wage that no one can survive on it, they will tell you tough cookie, it’s not meant for that.

          • arafat

            Federal Min is $7.25 so no way GA and WY can legally pay $5.15 whether it’s still in the states books or not.

        • Andrea

          It seems like women can aspire to anything from some of the comments. Even making minimum wage. If “coitus and good looks” are at the top of men’s lists, the beginning and the end of the list, work on that, and x+y = Marriage.

        • nillalatte

          Income can fluctuate significantly during the life of a relationship. I was making $$ back when I met my immigrant husband. He could not legally work. Over the years we were together, there were points where my income was higher than his, then his higher than mine. So, if y’all looking for someone who can sustain for all time, during perhaps a lengthy relationship, their income levels, you’re missing the point of a solid relationship building.

          • ratchet dialogue

            I was just giving an example. They have a list of I want this and that in a man, yet, they don’t meet half of the requirements in that very list, hence the list being deemed unreasonable. and yes, to @ “Income can fluctuate…..”

            • Sahel

              The high school drop out wanting a Oxbridger is always an amusing tale

          • http://trulytafakari.com/ dtafakari

            this is definitely truth.

          • Joel

            I agree here. The majority of folks that are strictly looking at folks’ wallets are too short-sighted to see this point of view, though. Back in my restaurant-working days (this was from 2000 up until 2008), most women weren’t checking for that even though I made decent money and didn’t live above my means at all.

      • Sahel

        Like in boxing,don’t punch above your weight

        • nillalatte

          Boo… women need to set the bar high so we can have you make that jump. You won’t jump if we don’t give you challenges. Challenges turn men on as they prefer the hunt just as much as the kill. Why am I talking like I’m in the Wild Kingdom? LOL

          • Sahel

            Am cool with challenges. But if i have my game together and my credit is ok,would i really waste time on one unreasonable woman. The world is a buffet. Just ask the women of Thailand…..

            • ratchet dialogue

              no need to waste time, keep it moving…

            • nillalatte

              True. Ain’t no reason to waste time on any one that is unreasonable. I don’t know why, but this conversation made me nostalgic. I always loved this rap because of one line… “I can’t impress you with the cars and the wealth ’cause any woman with will and drive can get it herself.” The rest of the spit is real – from where I’m standing anyway.

              http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=K7MqKXtsRFg&feature=kp

      • http://www.twitter.com/IluminatiNYC Todd

        Two reasons. One is that they’ve been burned by men, and they end up looking for the perfect man to avoid being done dirty. The other is that it’s socially unacceptable for a woman to say “I don’t want commitment”. Therefore, a long list is a perfect shield and excuse to hide the fact that she doesn’t want to commit.

    • JayIzUrGod

      Ehh…I’m gonna disagree there. Our lists aren’t easily compared to women, but we still have ludicrious expectations like women…but usually about looks. Bust size, butts, , hips, lips, what she can wear, what she can’t wear, hair, nails, feet,, shoes, blouses, bras, thongs, boy shorts, panties, cooking skills, lack of cooking skills, can you bring her home to your mom, can you bring her around your boys….that list is ALWAYS LONG, but we tend to look at these characteristics as basics rather than hopeful features. You get older, and then you start cutting the list down with the superficial stuff, and add real characteristics that make you comfortable around a woman. So instead of DSLs, you wanna know if she has a sense of humor. Trust, we aren’t that much different from women…looks just happen to be more tangible than someone sweeping us off our feet.

      • T.Q. Fuego

        “but we still have ludicrious expectations like women…but usually about looks.”

        First of all that’s only one category. I notice a lot of young women having ludicrous expectations across a range of areas. Not only that but the things you mentioned are preferences, not expectations. How many dudes really EXPECT to get a chick that’s built like Caramel or Natasha Dulce (pron stars FYI so don’t search for em at work lol)? We would love it if that happened to go down, but it’s a very small minority of men that actually expect this (and some of the ones that do can realistically count on pulling those chicks as wives too). I don’t care much about what she wears, I pay little attention to her choices in hair, nails, shoes and other accoutrements. I just wanna enjoy the whole package. My only requirement is that I find it attractive.

        “we tend to look at these characteristics as basics rather than hopeful features.”

        Couldn’t disagree with you more on this. All that’s extra to most of the men I know. When talking about chicks we wanna screw yeah we try to pull the most attractive ones (externally) but when talking about the chicks we wanna marry most of the dudes I know value the personality, intangibles ,and character more than all that other stuff you mentioned. Bottom line we don’t get as heavily programmed to get caught up in a thousand details the way they do. I also think we aren’t naturally as observant of details and subtleties as women, so there’s that.

        • Andrea

          I loved reading this!

        • Sahel

          As long as she does not have a video on world star,i will give her a look

        • h.h.h.

          4 extra oxen for your future wedding for the Dulce reference

        • http://vagabondaesthetics.tumblr.com/ Ricky

          Co-sign times 1000. In the really, really world most men aint out here looking for the video vixens that are discussed on twitter or in person or whenever. There are a great many REAL REGULAR real world women that dudes legitimately consider beautiful and a catch.

          • http://brown-c6h12o6.tumblr.com/ AfroPetite

            I’ve said it before and I’ll say it again, men can talk a good game about only liking video vixen looking girls but the mother(s) of their kid(s) are who I gauge what they really like. Your baby muva looks like a box of rocks sir. Don’t sit up here and tell me a thing about your preferences.

            • TheOtherJerome

              Yeah Afro, but theres a difference between what you want, and whats available. Most of us chase after the trophy, but settle for that readily available good-good. Them do the deed…. and regret it literally RIGHT after.

              Then…..
              48 hours later…..
              RIGHT back up in there!!

              Once we get a little older we start using the correct head. However none of that changes the fact that a certain type of woman is always the goal for a man. Even if it’s few and far between when you get a shot at one.

              • http://brown-c6h12o6.tumblr.com/ AfroPetite

                But there’s such a stark contrast in the women these men talk about liking and the women they’re smashing. I can understand the lack of “10′s” in ones area but the women many men end up seriously dating are just polar opposite of what they claim to want.

              • http://vagabondaesthetics.tumblr.com/ Ricky

                If he was sincere about only liking dimes he would put in the time and effort to date them. Great looking women regularly date average looking dudes.

            • Sahel

              Weezy seems to defy this rule

              • http://brown-c6h12o6.tumblr.com/ AfroPetite

                How? He’s consistently smashing the women he talks about wanting to smash. All the mothers of his children are A1 in my opinion. I’ve yet to see him knock up some facially challenged woman or any woman darker than Reginae’s mom. He’s true to his preference. I respect it.

              • IcePrincess

                I’m sorry but Nivea is busted.

                • http://TheNewEve.com/ Bunni

                  she looks like them scary azz toys that came out a decade ago…umm FURBY, yeah thats the one:

            • http://www.twitter.com/IluminatiNYC Todd

              I wouldn’t go just on mothers but on their general track record. (Though granted, in my case, if you’d lined up all the women I’ve dated since graduating high school in one spot, you’d think I was one confused negro.) If someone pulls a certain kind of woman on the reg, then you can gauge their track record. Remember, unless a dude is on Antonio Cromartie status, he’s only going to have but a few baby mamas. The women he regularly dates is a more reflective sample.

              • http://brown-c6h12o6.tumblr.com/ AfroPetite

                I’m not sure what Wayne considers going steady since he keeps a bevy of women at his beck and call. I do know, that the ones he’s gotten pregnant since his first child, all fall under a certain category which he proudly touts.

            • panamajackson

              Box of rocks though?

        • Andrea

          I didn’t think I’d be able to find Ms. Caramel without a last name. But who knew?
          Classic Work: Ball$ Deep 5, Big Willy’s Pumps And Rumps
          2, Blackalicious, Freaks Who3s And Flows 2, It Don’t Matter, Just Don’t
          Bite It 6, Put it in Your Mouth 1, WaXXXin’ Phat A$$es 1

          Does anyone know where to go for such Classics?

          • Sahel

            This is the best comment ever. Gentlemen,Andrea is a keeper. I have been deeply moved

          • http://www.twitter.com/IluminatiNYC Todd

            The good people at the Pr0nhub network would be able to help. There is Tube8, Pr0nhub (just fix the spelling) and KeezMovies. Oh, and at KeezMovies, my friend wrote all those bios over a year and half’s work.

            • Andrea

              Thanks for the info!!!!! Wow. Your friend did the bios! That’s a fun job!!!

        • Andrea

          Yo! Ladies! Ms. Dulce is on twitter, and she’s giving out Advice.
          “When you’re giving h@ndjob$, you MUST take it slow. Worship the d!ck
          with your hands. Don’t rush him through it. Let him enjoy his time.”
          Good to know.

          • ratchet dialogue

            LMAO! You are a mess. Good advice though.

          • Freebird

            And knowing is half the battle.

          • http://www.twitter.com/IluminatiNYC Todd

            The amount of bad handjobs is scary though. Sad as it is to say, she needs to spread the gospel. Ladies, just because the D is hard LIKE wood doesn’t mean you literally treat it like wood. :)

          • T.Q. Fuego

            Ha! You went out and did your research huh? I can tell you’re a winner. Can’t help but respect someone out here putting in the work to be great! lol

          • http://brown-c6h12o6.tumblr.com/ AfroPetite

            Do men even like those from women if there isn’t a mouth to accompany the hands?

            • http://vagabondaesthetics.tumblr.com/ Ricky

              I’m not one of them, but yes.

              • http://brown-c6h12o6.tumblr.com/ AfroPetite

                I don’t get hand jobs. I have a perfectly functional mouth.

                • http://vagabondaesthetics.tumblr.com/ Ricky

                  Listen, it took me years to perfect my craft. I aint got the time or patience to coach someone else up to do it properly. I’m very particular.

                  • JayIzUrGod

                    They lack the wrist action that comes with practice. They just see us do it and think its easy. Pffft.

                • Sahel

                  Bravo,Bravo

            • http://www.twitter.com/IluminatiNYC Todd

              Yes, especially as a plan B. Sometimes you have to go with other options, and the more you have, the better. :)

              • http://brown-c6h12o6.tumblr.com/ AfroPetite

                But in what situation would a Plan B even be necessary? Is her jaw wired shut? Did she have some dental work done recently?

                • Heavens2Murgatroid

                  When you can blow and give a smooth “handshake” at the same time, that’s when it’s necessary.

                  • Andrea

                    I was gonna say, don’t people like when the two go together?

                    • Heavens2Murgatroid

                      Boi, don’t we!

              • JayIzUrGod

                There are better options…because there’s more than 2 holes.

            • T.Q. Fuego

              Every adult man I know finds hand jobs played out and unsatisfactory. That was for back when she wasn’t chexually active and had hangups about oral therapy. If a grown woman offered a hand job not accompanied by lip service I’d be insulted and turned off. What part of the game is that?

              • Andrea

                Well tell Ms. Dulce That!

                • T.Q. Fuego

                  I’d tell Natasha that (I call her Natasha cause at this point it feels like I know her biblically lol) but I also know for a fact that Natasha does a whole lot more than just hand-me-downs. I was talking about chicks who think their hand by itself will suffice (unless y’all at a public event and she wants to sneak you one under the table. I approve of that lol)

                  • Andrea

                    Tell me about it. I didn’t know there were twitter accounts like that. Her Background Pictures. All her pictures…I didn’t know that was allowed on twitter. She does share a lot of tips! Is it weird if I hit the follow button?

                    • http://missrosen.wordpress.com/ esa

                      ~ Is it weird if I hit the follow button?

                      your future husband thanks you in advance ~*~

                    • Guest

                      “Is it weird if I hit the follow button?”

                      Nah, it’s kinda hot actually…

                    • T.Q. Fuego

                      “Is it weird if I hit the follow button?”

                      Nah, it’s kinda hot actually…

              • JayIzUrGod

                It’s called laziness.

            • Andrea

              That pr0n star seems to think so. She tweeted it last nite.

        • http://www.twitter.com/IluminatiNYC Todd

          For one, working from home is the sh*t man. Thank you for bringing Natasha Dulce into my life. :)

          Still, there’s the difference between the type of woman a man will date, a man will hump and a man will marry. Even still, those preferences change over time. I know Rutgers me would have laughed at the woman I married. Like I honestly friendzoned better looking women (and got friendzoned in turn, because I was young and dumb). Then again, I managed to have an honest-to-goodness model as one girlfriend, a skrippa as another girlfriend and a few more girls that may have been better looking, no shade to the first two. That said, I *dated* these women, not *married* these women.

          I think what women don’t realize is that men realize that whoever they marry, they have to live with. While boys don’t grow up fantasizing about Their Special Day, as they get older, they start to think about the type of person they can live with forever-ever. Because men don’t have that childhood baggage to deal with, men start with what worked and didn’t work in their relationships and build from there. Don’t get it twisted that looks don’t matter, because they definitely do. On the flip side, men realize that a big butt and a smile isn’t going to do their laundry, but an actual flesh-and-blood woman is. Who cares if you’ve had a nicer a$$ before? She’s the one who will hold you down after your job lays you off!

          What those characteristics of a wife should be are developed through hard won experience. Still, as that list fleshes out, looks matter less. They never become irrelevant, but they become a part of a complete package.

        • JayIzUrGod

          We are going to have to agree to disagree. Perhaps both of our opinions are based on environment, because the dudes i grew up around did exactly what i said. Ask them about marriage, and they would tell me an archetype of a woman with so many specific physical features, a few specific personality characteristics that mostly centered on her being a ride or die chick….i know some dudes who still want this stuff even though we are in our 30s. Perhaps where you’re from, marriage and women meant more to young men than up here. And i wasn’t saying our lists should be compared to a woman’s list, but i am saying we tend to be quite silly with our lists

          • T.Q. Fuego

            Yeah, I’m not saying those dudes don’t exist. It makes sense that my experience and yours are different. Honestly I’ve met New York dudes like that and heard about them (and saw em on TV). So growing up I thought most NY cats was diva dudes, but I can’t say for sure how prevalent it is. NY ladies what’s been your experience wit the fellas from the Big Apple when it comes to this subject?

            • JayIzUrGod

              Yea I figured you might have met a few during your time up here, so you know it is not a lie. But I’ve met them in other places like MD, DC, VA, NC as well.

    • Sahel

      6 goats for your wedding for the lower maintenance observation.

  • ratchet dialogue

    My list has always been kept to a minimum. No need for long tingz. Maybe I’m just lazy.

    • http://trulytafakari.com/ dtafakari

      “No need for long tingz.”

      I beg to differ, madame… lol

  • nillalatte

    Maybe one of my relationship downfalls is that I don’t believe I have ever consciously made a list of attributes I would like in a man, until about a year ago. I see things in the men with whom I associate, certain behaviors, yes, I would like to see neatly rolled into one man, but, alas, fables. Much like the unicorns, the ‘perfect’ man is a mystical figure born in the land of nowhere. I don’t think anyone can live up to anothers list. The one true quality of a loving relationship is compromise through understanding your partner’s needs.

    I’m gonna share some Madea wisdom, people come in and out of your life. Relationships come and go. The ones that stay and put down roots, who if they want to spend time with you will put themselves in your life, and if you want them in your life, you will let them in.

    • ratchet dialogue

      beaurriful.

    • IcePrincess

      You not dating that Asian dude no more?

      • nillalatte

        Nah, girl. We went our separate ways a while back. He was definitely a YOLO type of encounter. ;) He will still occasionally send me a “Are you still alive?” text or call at some random time. But, I’m married to the job at the moment.

  • http://vagabondaesthetics.tumblr.com/ Ricky

    I agree. Generally speaking young men (around my age and younger) still don’t quite have a grasp of what they want from a woman because our childhood’s aren’t really surrounded by dating, marriage, or the type of partner we want to have like they are for girls. So when we start dating as young men we’re really aimless because we don’t have language, much less a vocabulary, for what we want from women outside of coitus and good looks. Add to the fact we approach rather than get approached; a lot of finding the type of woman you want is trial and error affair where we find out when we meet people what we’d like in a partner. That obviously leaves a lot of causalities.

    • Sahel

      Aha,to be 19 again

      • http://brown-c6h12o6.tumblr.com/ AfroPetite

        Malik is almost old enough to rent a car! Let him live.

        • JayIzUrGod

          Malik looks old enough to be my age honestly.

    • LehcarB

      Trial and error works for everyone. With every relationship my list was refined to what I realized I needed and to what I didn’t .

  • Andrea

    I think I have added and subtracted to the list in my head, but its definitely shorter. Let’s see.
    1. Nice 2. Nice 3. Nice 4. Wants to be married in a year 5. Okay with me being a stay at home mom 6. Can afford for me to be a stay at home mom 7. Has good health insurance 8. (Looks, height, weight, charisma, dog lover, cat lover, pork eater, dog eater, owns a racist horse) Could care less.
    Bonus: Not on social media

    • ratchet dialogue

      you meant race horse? or is there such a thing as a racist horse?

      • Andrea

        Nope a Racist horse. “The guy she dreams will ride in on his white (or racially ambiguous) horse…do animals have races?” In case P is right about horse racism.

        • ratchet dialogue

          lol, gotcha!

    • Msdebbs

      My list is a bit shorter
      1. Still believes in Jesus
      2. Good Hyegine
      3. Honest
      4. Taller than me
      5. Stable

      • Andrea

        I really wanted to add taller than me….but I’m 5’9. That’s so funny everyone keeps mentioning cleanliness. I guess I’ve gotten real lucky in the past :)

        • http://www.twitter.com/IluminatiNYC Todd

          Hmmm…do you like to wear stripper heels? Perhaps we can talk. :)

          • Andrea

            LOL! I was at Stadium here in DC Saturday, now I really want to invest in some. The girlz had on some cute ones!!

            • http://www.twitter.com/IluminatiNYC Todd

              And I would still be taller than you. You would just be a convenient height…

      • Sahel

        Hmm,Debbs had some dirty men in her past

        • Msdebbs

          Naw just one. I tried to work with his ol must azz….

      • Heavens2Murgatroid

        I have a thing or two about “that list”. Simple albeit, but to me it says little to nothing about his personality, which will be the lasting quality in a marriage. And what’s this thing about “good hygiene” that seems to show up so prevalently in womens’ lists?

        • Msdebbs

          These are core qualities I prefer in a man or deal breakers if he doesn’t have them but nothing is set in stone I believe in compromise. As for personality just have a sense of humor, be optimistic & well rounded. You hear a lot about hygiene because people have nasty habits. Don’t push up on me smelling like a onion cause you just came in from playing basketball. Yes folks it’s happened.

          • Heavens2Murgatroid

            Does that “stable” have anything to do with his intellect (college-educated/well read) or moreso his bank account? I ask because some people can have “good” paying blue-collar jobs

            • Msdebbs

              Stable to me means more than just a good paying job. How are you with your finances? It really doesnt matter how much $$ you make if you just gonna blow it away on sneakers & weed…true story. Just be an adult & have your shhhhhht together you don’t have to be rich or college educated.

              • Heavens2Murgatroid

                Ok. I know some who are more caught up on what school he went to and major/degree he has.

                • Msdebbs

                  They haven’t learned yet that none of that mess even matters. At the end of life who’s gonna sit back reminisce about degrees & bank statements???

                  • Heavens2Murgatroid

                    Some enjoy chasing dreams, while others prefer living theirs out

                • Joel

                  I was in college running into women….IN COLLEGE that told me I wasn’t good enough for them because I was IN COLLEGE. Lmao

                  • Heavens2Murgatroid

                    I would get the stank face when I bring up my major was wildlife. Oh, and let me not slip and say I like studying frogs. I would get so many “what black person wants to study wildlife?”,and I was at a HBCU

                    • Val

                      To be fair I think a White student at a PWI whose major was wildlife would get the stank face too.

                    • Heavens2Murgatroid

                      Sheeeettt! If only. They get mad support, but they back up anything they do with uber enthusiasm. They literally will high-five anything.

                      To be fair, I was going to school down south, so nature is…well, second nature to dems people.

                    • Joel

                      Right. After I told folks I was civil engineering, they’d ask for help with whatever math or science class they were struggling in.

                    • afronica

                      Sometimes people really piss me off. Wildlife is a perfectly good major. And aren’t frogs kind of considered to be a canary in a coal mine-type indicator of environments under stress? That’s quite interesting.

                    • Heavens2Murgatroid

                      Yup, yup. Look who’s been paying attention to Discovery Channel. It never pissed me off, just surprised me people had that mentality at an university

                  • http://www.twitter.com/IluminatiNYC Todd

                    What college did you go to? And what kind of women were you dealing with? I know that there are a few women gunning for MRS status, but it wasn’t like there was a shortage of women who were willing to date college women.

                    • Joel

                      I went to Howard.

                    • http://www.twitter.com/IluminatiNYC Todd

                      FWIW, I think it’s an urban college thing versus a suburban/rural college thing. If you go to school in a large city, that Baller Dude ™ is a short bus ride away. So a college dude not only has to compete with other college students, but that Baller Dude ™ who wants some pretty young thing. Where I went to school, it wasn’t like I was miles from civilization, but the college crowd more or less stayed to themselves. Of course there were those who stepped out, or those who parties every weekend in NYC, but you had to go out of your way to get into those scenes. Ballers weren’t just pulling up on campus (various Wu-Tang affiliates excepted, and even then, the Wu-Tang compound was 15 minutes from campus).

                    • Joel

                      I can’t generalize what the women at Howard were checking for when I was there. Of course I didn’t try to date every last one of them….but you had the ones that were only checking for dudes that didn’t go to Howard…the ones that were trying to get married, the ones that only wanted athletes, the ones that only wanted Greeks, the ones that only wanted dudes from the Caribbean or Africa…..I could go on forever, honestly.
                      All of that doesn’t matter these days, though, because I am done with the games.

                    • JayIzUrGod

                      Ooooh the lessons I learned at Howard about how quickly people can make you hate them.

          • Epsilonicus

            I never realized hygiene was necessary to have on a list. I figured that was a given.

            • Joel

              I didn’t think I had to put “heterosexual” on my own list either. Then I joined the Army….

    • Heavens2Murgatroid

      Can YOU or anybody know one another in 365(6) days enough to marry them and expect a lasting marriage (where divorce will never be an option)?

      • Andrea

        I can not produce a mathematical proof. But my matchmaker believes I can!

        • http://missrosen.wordpress.com/ esa

          like attracts like. if you select for someone whose integrity, intentions, and goals match your own, you can work together to create the life you dream ~*~

          • Andrea

            I Love You!

            • http://missrosen.wordpress.com/ esa

              keep putting positive vibes into the Universe ~*~ i saw this quote from Deepak Chopra last night, i cant find it but it said something to the effect that the most essential aspect of attraction is being open to giving and receiving love. keep the heart chakra flowing and the world is yours ~*~

        • Heavens2Murgatroid

          Who is this matchmaking guru you speak of? (and love is not an exact science like math)

          • Andrea

            I just found a local reputable agency referred to me by a friend.

      • panamajackson

        I mean, if you know you know, right?

        • Heavens2Murgatroid

          I’m a big hopeless romantic, but a bigger realist. I think it’s safer to give people time and ho through some experiences first, but to each it’s own

    • SuperStrings

      Did you really shorten the list or just collapse everything after “7.” into one item and call it “8.”?

      • Andrea

        It’s not really a list. More just my 5 non-negotiables.

    • http://www.twitter.com/IluminatiNYC Todd

      A stay at home mom? I have my doubts. Part of me is afraid I’ll do all the cooking and cleaning after work while you get your Peg Bundy on. Or am I just paranoid…

      • Andrea

        I guess that is a risk. My Mom stayed at home. I have met a lot of men who also grew up like that who really want that too.

        • SuperStrings

          I wouldn’t mind my wife staying at home as long as she treated it like a career. I’m talking PTA meetings, kids better have straight A’s, extracurricular activities, volunteer work, basically handling all the logistics of the home.

          • Andrea

            Yeah! My Mom did it like that.

            • SuperStrings

              Looks like you had a good point of reference then. You’re ahead of the game already.

          • http://missrosen.wordpress.com/ esa

            mm ima say, after doinn the career thang for the better part of my life and loving it to the fullest extent, i’d happily put it aside to build a home and a family with a man. i dont want to “have it all” at the same time. i believe life is a series of stages and i’m inspired about the possibility of something beautiful coming into my life ~*~

            • SuperStrings

              From reading your posts, I have a feeling that, should you decide to build a home, you would do that at the highest level because you expect no less from yourself. That’s what I would want from my wife, whether she went to work or stayed home.

              • http://missrosen.wordpress.com/ esa

                (smile) thas the blessings and curse of being a Virgo. the standard i hold is set to “greatness” because the full expression of my energy makes me feel alive ~*~

                my only true fear is in holding other people to my standards, rather than allowing them to develop and express their own. i find i do so much better to listen and observe, but the narcissistic part of me has a relentless desire to rule.

                the best thing for me is a man i adore and respect cause it inspires me to practice keeping mahh Virgo azz in check ~*~

                • SuperStrings

                  Yeah, I know about Virgo’s.

            • JayIzUrGod

              You really think you could turn off your creative side like that? I see you being able to be a mom, but I can’t see you being the type to stop producing creativity.

              • http://missrosen.wordpress.com/ esa

                creativity does not turn on or turn off so much as it is a flow of energy that i work to sustain. with a home and family, my creative energies would be channeled into the physical, spiritual, emotional, and intellectual realms of our world. man, i could so happily revert to finger painting and staging musicals on the living room carpet, no problem ~*~

                • JayIzUrGod

                  I see. Ok, I look forward to this endeavor for you then.

        • http://www.twitter.com/IluminatiNYC Todd

          Hey, I cop to that being a fear. I’m thinking a woman who wants to stay at home is just trying to pledge to the Moo Psi Moo sorority and take me for every dime she has. Plus no one I knew growing up had a stay at home mom. Then again…I have trust issues. LOL

          • http://trulytafakari.com/ dtafakari

            yup. my mother was a SAHM for a short spell…and then her ambitious drive kicked in.

          • Epsilonicus

            I know NO ONE who had a stay at home mom. All my friends had moms who were working, even if they had a two parent home. Stay at home mom #WhereTheyDoThatAt?

        • JayIzUrGod

          Do you think your future will permit you to be a stay-at-home mom, financially wise, as well as self-fulfillment wise?

    • T.Q. Fuego

      D*mn, he gotta be a dog eater too? The game done changed lol. So basically he’s gotta be…nevermind, I’ll refrain from the obvious racist joke. Hopefully all the good looking nice guys wit charisma, good health insurance, and a pile of discretionary income are out here paying attention.

    • panamajackson

      That horse racism is real.

    • JayIzUrGod

      Why at stay at home mom?
      And what’s wrong with social media? My wife has a problem with social media, but now that she’s looking for a new job, she’s learning she has no choice but to get over that gripe.

    • SweetSass

      LOL @ “Could care less.” SMH. Where were you couple posts ago?

  • NomadaNare

    Serious and vulnerable NN here: the truth of the matter is (well at least for me) that I’ve never really had a list. She just needed to be attractive and “get me”. I’m not usually the one for logical fallacies, but I think many men understand this statement and also feel this way. True intimacy can only be achieved through a real mutual understanding and can only be faked but for so long. In past relationships, if we had deep understanding of each other, we had everything. If that has become more complicated it’s because I have become more nuanced and complex as a person. I doubt women do the reverse.

    • Sahel

      People become more complicated because of what happened in past relationships in my opinion. If you let go of what happened before then you achieve growth.Growth is not complex,pain is

      • http://missrosen.wordpress.com/ esa

        complex =/= complicated

      • JayIzUrGod

        Wise words. Pain is inevitable, growth can be stunted, people can’t seem to comprehend the correlation between the two.

    • http://missrosen.wordpress.com/ esa

      ~ True intimacy can only be achieved through a real mutual understanding

      word. i’m an empiricist. i learn from experience. being with a good man has taught me far more about Truth than theoretical ideals spun inside my mind ever could ~*~

    • JayIzUrGod

      Indeed. Being a real adult means being satisfied with who you are as a person. So then its required that others be able to see who you are, and decide if they like what they see. The more we grow, the more refined we become. Its clear a lot of people don’t understand that, and it helps weed out the undesirables.

  • http://brown-c6h12o6.tumblr.com/ AfroPetite

    Most of what I’ve thought were “my type” has been what I think my friends would like/be attracted to in a mate. There was a 6 year period of my life where I would brush off guys who I liked because I felt like my friends wouldn’t be impressed. High school was an odd time for me. I was in this perpetual ugly duckling/insecure phase so I looked to the girls around me to figure out who I was/wasn’t supposed to be attracted to.

    My mother was of little help lol Her words for me about men have always been, make sure he isn’t broke and that he treats you nice. By the time I hit college I didn’t know what it was I wanted but I was free from being pressured into liking Boy A because he had some basement tattoos and the latest pair of Jordans (Jesus I am so glad my circle has become much smaller and much smarter).

    Now, I’m still unsure of the attributes that I want. I’m always put off by men who ask, “So what do you look for in a man?” I’m not looking for anything. Either it’s there or it isn’t. People try to cater themselves to your likes/dislikes rather than just displaying themselves free from any “leading” that you give them. I suppose my list is simple enough, be sane, be clean, be intelligent, make me laugh. I didn’t know how important being clean was until I started running into dirty men……

    • LehcarB

      I didn’t know how important being clean was until I started running into dirty men……

      Whaa? Lol Please share that story.

      • JayIzUrGod

        Ever seen a dude with streetlight yellow teeth? Yea…that.

      • http://brown-c6h12o6.tumblr.com/ AfroPetite

        When I said dirty I don’t mean physically unclean. I’m not going to let you get past a formal introduction with me if I can smell foul odors seeping through your pores. I’ve had the misfortune of talking to men who keep dirty spaces. That’s disgusting to me. There’s no reason for any adult to have a stench coming from their home because they fail to clean it on a weekly basis. Gross.

        • LehcarB

          I was gonna say men stepping forward oblivious to their scent??? But yes that’s gross. I’ve visited a house where everything LOOKED neat but there was a distinct smell. Such a turn off.

          • JayIzUrGod

            Indeed..but I have been to many a female’s house that trumps any filthy home of a dude I’ve ever known. Filth is just is some people’s DNA for no reason.

            • LehcarB

              Can you top roaches?

              • http://missrosen.wordpress.com/ esa

                one word: vermin.

                my girl grew up with mice in the walls. a perfectly clean house but the building was not kept up to code.

              • JayIzUrGod

                Can you top rats? And roaches?
                I worked in the PJs. I dealt with both. And I’ve still found women with apartments that need to be labeled biohazards by the CDC

    • Sahel

      ‘Running into dirty men’ Let me sit back and wit for A.P to explain,i do declare

      • JayIzUrGod

        Uhh…there’s a lot of smelly, unsanitary dudes out there…the type that take a dump then jump in the bed, ready to hit it. Without a shower first.

        • http://trulytafakari.com/ dtafakari

          with feet that cut you.

          • JayIzUrGod

            I fall short on the feet thing, my wife is brutal when I forget about it.

            • http://brown-c6h12o6.tumblr.com/ AfroPetite

              Ewww omg. I can’t deal with men who don’t care for their feet. I’ll start you off with a nice pedicure at the local nail salon though. My treat.

              • JayIzUrGod

                I’ll take it.
                I’m better now. She’s put the fear in me.

    • JayIzUrGod

      You are learning young padawan.

    • T.Q. Fuego

      “I’m not looking for anything. Either it’s there or it isn’t.”

      So basically it’s like that quote about what pron is? “I don’t know how to define it, but I know it when I see it.” (I’m paraphrasing) You sounding quite wise for an adolescent today lol. Seriously though, that’s a healthy perspective as long as you take note of what experience teaches you that you like/value, what you dislike, and what you can do without.

      • http://brown-c6h12o6.tumblr.com/ AfroPetite

        Y’all are going to calm down with this “adolescent” talk and such lol I know that I don’t know anything. I’m of that philosophy and I’m sticking to it. Men who want to play 21 questions with me in order to find out about me are paddling up a creek with no boat. I’d much rather discuss the things that interest me/you. Hearing men talk about things they’re passionate about is a true turn on for me. I might not like anime or manga but it’s nice to sit and listen to someone share their love of that with me. Their eyes just light up and they go into over drive when trying to educate you about it.

        • JayIzUrGod

          Its nice you can do that. People just want to be themselves without being judged.

    • panamajackson

      You know how women always tell us men we need to stop dating crazy women, like, “who are these nutty a$$ broads y’all be meeting?”

      Well, who are these dirty a$$ men y’all be meeting? I’ve heard so many women say something along the lines of “wanting clean men…”

      I almost feel bad for y’all sometimes

      • http://brown-c6h12o6.tumblr.com/ AfroPetite

        I don’t think people are as clean as you think they are. Once you step into someone’s home you figure out what type of person you’re truly dealing with.

  • Msdebbs

    Rules are ment to be broken and so are these “wish list” everyone has about their perfect mate…

    • Sahel

      Chilli is still holding on…

      • Msdebbs

        She needs to understand that Jesus is not available.

        • http://brown-c6h12o6.tumblr.com/ AfroPetite

          Lol Chilli is nut. She’s pushing 50 and is still searching for this unicorn.

          • IcePrincess

            Yup chilli supa lame. She seems like she’d be a dead fish in bed.

            • JayIzUrGod

              Hmmm….yea..I think you got a point there. I don’t see fun when looking at her face.
              Probably T-Boz was though.

        • T.Q. Fuego

          This made me laugh out loud.

      • JayIzUrGod

        How did she let Usher just ruin her common sense like that?

        • http://www.youtube.com/user/pervertedalchemist1 Perverted Alchemist

          I can’t put that on Usher. I remember her old interviews from back in the 90′s. She was as unreasonable then as she is now. It’s just that the reality show she had gave her a bigger platform to show herself more.

          • JayIzUrGod

            That’s just sad…and she’s nowhere close to being able to show the same traits she’s asking for.

            • http://www.youtube.com/user/pervertedalchemist1 Perverted Alchemist

              …And that’s why she’s still single while being middle aged.
              Well, that and other reasons if you heard the industry rumors about her…

              • JayIzUrGod

                After a while, we become our own worst enemies and don’t even know it

                • http://www.youtube.com/user/pervertedalchemist1 Perverted Alchemist

                  You’d be surprised at the number of people who don’t know how to get out of their own way.

                  • JayIzUrGod

                    Trust i know….didn’t realize how bad i was until i finally got it, now i see so.many people in the same situation

              • http://www.twitter.com/IluminatiNYC Todd

                Start talking PA. Tell us these rumors.

                • http://www.youtube.com/user/pervertedalchemist1 Perverted Alchemist

                  Let’s just say that TLC’s “Ain’t 2 Proud 2 Beg” isn’t just a song for her …and I will leave it at that…

        • http://missrosen.wordpress.com/ esa

          i believe Chilli has agency over her own mind.

          • JayIzUrGod

            She does, but I guess to an outsider, it looks like that was the straw that broke the camel’s back.

    • JayIzUrGod

      Oh that’s just live

    • panamajackson

      Okay, this kilt me dead.