Dating, Relationships, & Sex, Pop Culture, Race & Politics, Theory & Essay

The Swirl: Well This *COULD* Be Interesting.

It’s entirely possible that I watch too much reality television and improv-scripted reality shows. Methinks its caused my brain to be unable to discern between effort and parody. Such brings me this trailer for a documentary entitled “The Swirl” which is obviously about interracial dating.

The trailer is a minute and thirty seconds and packed with almost as much non-sense as an episode of Love & Hip-Hop: ATL. And thus far this season we have sechs tapes, people pretending they didn’t leak them, a woman named Bambi who rides bicycles to a man’s house who goes by the name Lil Scrappy who has definitely put them paws on people, a momma who won’t stop talkign about kingdoms and a man who actually swabbed his kids mouth on television to take a paternity test. Oh, and Benzino…THAT Benzino is the voice of reason.

And yet we have The Swirl. Again, it’s listed as a documentary, albeit clearly one with muchos comedy, but it almost looks like there’s sitcom elements to it. In fact, it almost looks like a trailer for a comedy about swirling.

Quick sidenote: I remember when I found out “swirling” was a thing. Like an actual community of people and websites and folks with VERY strong opinions about both interracial dating and the folks they left behind. I had no clue it was a whole to-do until I found out how divisive (I’m guessing that’s a pun) and flame-on people get about interracial dating.

Well let me rephrase, I know that some folks feel strongly about interracial dating. And it’s usually assumed that Black women and white parents are the biggest opponents. But when I came across sites (there was one in particular that I can’t seem to recall at the moment) that were vitriolic about NOT dating within their races anymore, I started scratchign my head. They’re on some, “f*ck dating Black men. I’m only dating outside the race.” Point is, the fact that there’s a real functional term in “swirling” and a community behind it is funny to me, and also way more complex than I ever imagined.

Everybody’s got their thing right?

(That sidenote wasn’t that quick was it? Swerve.)

Two truisms in life: This documentary has interestingly ratchet potential, and swirlers – the people who actively advocate and laud the label – will now have their vanguard visual.

And the only thing that I keep thinking to myself is this…

…young n*gga move that dope.

What’s your takeaway?

-VSB P aka THE ARSONIST aka MR A$AP PZA aka GIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIRL HE A 3

Filed Under:
Panama Jackson

Panama Jackson is pretty fly (and gorgeous) for a light guy. He used to ship his frito to Tito in the District, but shipping prices increased so he moved there to save money. He refuses to eat cocaine chicken. When he's not saving humanity with his words or making music with his mouth, you can find him at your mama's mama's house drinking her fine liquors. Most importantly, he believes the children are our future. You can hit him on his hitter at panamadjackson@gmail.com.

  • Soula Powa

    Of course this documentary has a comedic edge to it. There is very little chance to have a wide-scale conversation about interracial dating without someone getting heated. Now they can soften the backlash a bit (or spur a million think-pieces) by saying that those who are angry just don’t get the joke. Meanwhile, I’ll be in the cut with my popcorn watching the fireworks.

    • nillalatte

      Off topic: If I remember correctly you have a CV. Ever have a problem with the ABS control module? I’m about to die. The part is damn near $800! I found one on ebay and have a demonstration on Youtube to show me how to replace it. I have a FUN weekend planned.

      • Soula Powa

        Hey, nillalatte!

        I used to have a CV, traded it in last year. I never had a problem with my ABS in all the time I owned it though. Good luck this weekend!

  • Jay

    Oh, and Benzino…THAT Benzino is the voice of reason.

    At a Starbucks somewhere west of Atlanta an impossibly skinny blonde, coaching an even skinnier blonde on how to “diversify her downline”, threw shade at a young(ish) African American man in a hooded sweatshirt for explosively loling at the above sentence, as a 6’8″ barista named Stefan arrived for work wearing shaggy cutoff khakis, an electric pink bowtie, and matching shades.

    • panamajackson

      LOL. I laughed TYPING it.

      • IcePrincess

        Zino got more sense than the rest of the whole motley crew put together.

  • “white boys I can talk to, Spanish boys I can fugg, Black boys I can take home to daddy.”This woman is me, I am her.

    • nillalatte

      That’s the way some white girls are too. Oh, lawd, let’s not even get into the complexities of the swirl and religion to boot. Talk about some very diplomatic conversations. Touchy.

  • PunchDrunkLove

    I used to feel some kinda way about interracial dating, but I’m so over it…lol My kid’s father dated a white chick prior to dating me and they had a kid together. Man, I had to knock her down a few notches before she “got” it….lol I think though most of me feeling some kinda way about it, came from the sheer delight of knocking her off the box, that whole experience overall. That was something totally new for me. Once I got over him, and past all of the juvenile drama, all other feelings and feeling some kinda way disappeared.

    Now? Do you…whatever floats ya boat.

  • PunchDrunkLove

    I probably won’t watch though, if it’s got ratchet potential. I’ve reached my ratchet quota

  • Val

    If someone dates IR it’s no big deal. The problems start when IR dating becomes some sort of exercise in hatred. I mean date IR but why do you have to denigrate a whole group of people to justify what you’re doing? Those BWE (Black Women’s Empowerment) folks are on some seriously bigoted/ crazy campaign to bash Black men.

    And, I often wonder why a man of another ethnicity would want to date one of those BWE women. Who wants to date someone who is only dating you because you’re not Black? There’s some serious dysfunction going on with those women and the men they date. Although I get the feeling they spend more time talking about dating IR and bashing Black men than actually dating.

    Internalized racism is a powerful thing apparently.

    • There are groups dedicated to various forms of IR dating and it is so interesting to see people so dedicated to dating another man/woman of another race. One of my followers (black male) has detailed his issues dating within the gay community as a black man and how white men see him as their “potential black King”. People and their little fetish of the month, it’s just, ewww.

      • Val

      • Val

        America has a sordid history when it comes to both race and chex so it’s no wonder that some have some weird chexual fetishes based upon race and racial stereotypes.

      • Oh, I get the occasional White guy trying to check for me on that status. And I’ve heard Black women tell me that White guys want them to be their Tough Cleopatra Jones Jezebel ™. GTFOHWTBS

    • menajeanmaehightower

      “And, I often wonder why a man of another ethnicity would want to date one of those BWE women” Maybe they hold the same views?

    • Jay

      Who wants to date someone who is only dating you because you’re not Black?

      I had a best friend who was black and only dated white girls, an ex who was white and only dated black guys, another friend who was white and only dated black girls, and almost every black girl that I’ve ever met who only date black men… I don’t get it. How do you turn your attraction off for an entire group of people? Or is it only activated for a certain group? I’m too attracted to femininity in general to parse what I’m attracted to by colour or race. If there were really 7′ blue Avatar broads running around I honestly would probably be attracted to them as well.

      • Val

        “How do you turn your attraction off for an entire group of people?”

        Bigotry warps the mind.

        • Jay

          But in a lot of cases it’s not bigotry. Now that I think of it I also had a black woman friend who only dated white guys. In her case and probably many others it’s more of a reflection of how black/white men/women react to you as opposed to how your ethnic counterparts do.

          • Val

            But would that cause someone to write off everyone of their own ethnic group? Seems more to it to me.

            • Jay

              More ignorance and lazy thinking than pure bigotry from what I’ve seen.

              • Val

                I definitely agree about the lazy thinking but I think there’s a healthy amount of bias as well.

      • Jacqueline

        Do you really think that a black person who only wants to date black people is committing some form of racism? Or that it is a problem for a black person to want to only date another black person?

        I am not accusing, just trying to get clarity.

        • Jay

          Not at all. I think that the majority of the people on Earth only want to date within their race.

    • h.h.h.

      And, I often wonder why a man of another ethnicity would want to date one of those BWE women.

      Allies. The Enemy of my enemy is a supportive faction.

    • “And, I often wonder why a man of another ethnicity would want to date one of those BWE women. Who wants to date someone who is only dating you because you’re not Black?”

      The funny thing is that men of other races can see right through that… and the BWE Movement still doesn’t get it.

      “There’s some serious dysfunction going on with those women and the men they date. Although I get the feeling they spend more time talking about dating IR and bashing Black men than actually dating.”

      There’s a long story behind this one. You know how a person got rejected by someone they really wanted and they take it out on people who had nothing to do with it? Yeah, that…

      • Val

        I agree, PA, bitterness has a whole lot to do with this movement. Same with people like Tommy Sotomayor. (sp)

        • Ughhhh Obsidian was trying to act like Tommy isn’t problematic the other day. If I had never seen Tommy’s face you couldn’t convince me he was a black man.

          • Rachmo

            @disqus_QGKOTi1oX5:disqus can we touch on this? Look I actually took some time to listen to Tommy. It sounded like he was pinpointing a very specific type of woman and trying to convince me that the majority of Black women were like this. My feelings weren’t even hurt bc it seemed like he was hammering on a certain niche (that may not exist but I’m sleep)

            • Val

              Lol. My feelings weren’t hurt because he’s a nut.

              I think both Tommy and BWE folks tend to draw on some sort of negative personal history and they use that negative history to try to paint all (Black) women or men with the same brush.

              • Rachmo

                And that brush is aggressively broad. I had to fast forward through a good chunk bc he was talking about his hurt feelings. It was hard to take him seriously.

                • Val

                  I always wonder why he has more than one video since he says the same things over and over.

                  • He continues to come across sensationalized stories of “black women behaving badly” to reiterate his tired theories

                    • Val

                      Reminds me of a certain VSBer. Lol

                    • I haven’t seen him in a while. Did he get banned again?

                    • Val

                      I don’t know.

                    • He did- on the same day VSB installed Disqus almost a year ago.

                    • Aw, I missed it. I started commenting in the Disqus era.

                    • Yeah, two people got banned on the same day- right around the same time, no less!

                    • Dark times in VSB land

                    • IcePrincess

                      HeII, I woulda rather had Adonis over that bat sh*t pyscho chick. That bish need suicide watch or sum. But I’m glad they both gone. Dust! *kenya voice*

                    • IcePrincess

                      Moderation ????

                    • IcePrincess

                      Gurl u ain’t miss nun, truss.

            • Tommy’s baby mama is black and to be quite honest, I feel like his hatred towards black women stems from his poor dating choices and having her be the mother to his daughter. That’s just my personal theory though.

              • Rachmo

                I said this to O. Do the women he’s speaking of find Tommy or does Tommy find these women? Chicken or egg my friend

                • Girl I wish I knew lol

                • That is a good question, because it can definitely go either way. Unless he really broke down how he grew up and came up, you can’t give a definitive answer. Sometimes, you end up with some jacked standards, and sometimes, you just have sh*tty luck with women.

                  • Rachmo

                    I feel you on that. I had a string of bad luck with guys but they were of all races. Which is how I learn that ain’t sh*t dudes know no color.

                    • ForeverCC

                      “ain’t sh*t dudes know no color.” <– can i get this on a tshirt?!

                    • Miche

                      I’d purchase

                    • Rachmo

                      See there’s this myth out here that White/Asian men are always bout it. No no no my sister they TOO can be shiftless.

                    • Don’t I know that fact, woman! LOL Ain’t sh*t-ness knows no color.

                    • Rachmo

                      The first time I had to cuss out an Asian boo I thought I was in the twilight zone. Could I roll my neck? Was that too much? Do I tell him “he ain’t sh*t and ain’t never gonna BE sh*t?” I needed some guidelines.

                    • Well, I have a rep for getting really quiet and unusually precise when telling off a woman. As a result, I don’t really have to worry about getting “urban” on a woman. I do see your issue though.

                • h.h.h.

                  it’s a little bit of both.

                  if your life experiences are centered around females that don’t know any better…if your eyes are trained to see what you clearly wish to see…

                  then it’s a lot easier to have a viewpoint like tommy. because it does exist. there are thots. there are h**s; just like there are ni**as. but it’s not the totality of the female existence in america. it’s just what gets the most attention. but if it’s all you see, how can you see different? if you’ve been hurt by males that share the same skin tone, over-and-over-and-over, how do you divorce yourself from the thought that black males aint spit?

                  from my pov, black males and black female do this to each other. and neither side really wants to see past that. others have trained their eye to see more, and i thank college for allowing me to see more than what i would have seen if i had never left.

                  • Rachmo

                    Yeah I guess it’s hard for me to by sympathetic bc I always actively sought out more knowledge (no matter the topic)

                    • h.h.h.

                      just gotta hope that they eventually move past it and grow a little bit more. i be reading a lotta chicks on twitter and i almost feel sad about the hate they’d have towards me and hiding behind their isms. but it is what it is, and that anger and hurt and fear has to manifest itself somehow.

                    • Rachmo

                      I also think some of that is youth.

                  • menajeanmaehightower

                    Look at you giving the word on a Wednesday!

                    • h.h.h.

                      i read a lotta Naruto. lol.

                  • #facts People like to pretend that the social changes since the 60s didn’t have a disproportionate impact on Black people, with all the resulting trauma. Can’t people just be hurt?

                    • @Mr. Todd:

                      http://www.justfourguys.com/one-of-the-good-guys-a-conversation-about-why-tyrones-world-is-coming-apart/

                      Speak on it, Brotha! Speak on it.

                      The problem I have with so many Bougie Blacks, is that they talk their aridly academic theories, from a comfortable distance away from areas of Black America that actually has to LIVE, day to day, with all the “fallout” of what their pie-in-the-sky, misguided notions wreak. Part of my “mission”, is to highlight how and why such thinking was egregiously wrong, and to highlight the voices to who have been “Left Behind” – the Brothas of a Certain Class.

                      I think you get it; the trick is, will they?

                      As Steve Rogers said, “Let’s see…”

                      O.

                  • @Triple H:
                    While what you say does have some merit, the fact remains that it is very possible not to be personally impacted by any of this foolishness at all, and still be able to see it and call it out and condemn it, is it not?

                    For example, a number of ladies in this forum have asserted that I must’ve been “hurt” by Black Women, Inc., LOL – either that, and/or my mum “messed me up” and so forth.
                    Nothing could be further from the truth.

                    For one thing, unlike many here – and that includes, perhaps most especially, I came from a solid two-parent home, that never knew divorce. EVERYONE in my immediate and surrounding family got married and stayed that way, UNTO DEATH. My parents; my grandparents; three of my siblings; my aunts and uncles; my cousins.

                    Moreover, I was always close to my own mum, and my female relations. I would go to and through a wall for any one of them, and have on a number of occasions. And they know that.

                    So, no, this isn’t some kind of “personal” thing; it’s much, much bigger than that.
                    To say nothing of such “speculations” about people who assume much and know so little of my life, being utterly false…

                    O.

                    • I will say this about you, which isn’t as much shade about you as much as something I’ve noticed in the manosphere. From what you’ve described about your family life, your family was/is a lot more traditionalist than the average Black person of your age. Since being that traditional has become such a politically loaded lifestyle, for good or ill, anyone trying to look for that Old Time Lovin’ is going to have a bear of it in the dating marketplace. Fair enough?

                    • @Mr. Todd:

                      I have no problem in the least with what you have said – not about me, and not about notions of a traditional upbringing. I have no problems in the least with “alternative lifestyles”; believe it or not, one of the few areas of life where I would be considered to the Left of Lenin, is in the s*xual one – “knock yourself out, baby!”, is what I say.

                      But what we’re dealing with here – the latest incident in Ms. Solange Chimping Out and so forth – is much bigger than that. There is a systemic breakdown of civic culture in Black America, that threatens our very survival, and we have Brothas in our midst, like Nomada, who attempt to explain away seriously egregious bad decision making as, yet again, the machinations of Kyriarchy, aka the 21st Century Black American’s Twikie Defence(!). That’s just bunk, and it’s time it stopped.

                      #BillCosbyWasRIght2004

                      http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pound_Cake_speech

                      O.

                    • Rachmo

                      I could see this. I do have a very idealist vision of dating due to my parent’s marriage.

                    • @Ms. Rachmo:
                      LOL, there was nothing “idealistic” about my family life in the least – more like taking the proverbial bull by the horns, and making the hard but necessary decisions in life that make life worth living.

                      O.

                    • Rachmo

                      My parents took the “bull by the horns” but that was before I was born bc they had rough childhoods. By the time I was old enough to start processing things my parents morphed into two kids and a dog type of people. I didn’t even know college wasn’t an option until I was 15.

                    • Val

                      That’s interesting because I have a very idealistic view of dating/ marriage due to my parents divorce.

                    • Rachmo

                      That’s really interesting actually. Like seeing some people are better apart than together?

                    • Val

                      I think it’s more a need to prove that a relationship/ marriage can work.

                    • ForeverCC

                      i vaguely remember some study that indicated children of divorce try harder to stay married just for that reason. but i’ve also read that children will imitate the type of relationship their parents have sooooo…

                    • Val

                      Mine divorced when I was too young to have any memory of them together. So, that’s probably why I fit the first profile.

                    • Ms TLC

                      “i vaguely remember some study that indicated children of divorce try harder to stay married just for that reason.”

                      This was the case for my parents and why my upbringing was so solid. I asked my mom once what made our family “work” and she said, “because your father and I wanted to “do better” and we meant it.” Meaning they made hard decisions, sacrifices for the greater good (family) and just really WORKED at making their marriage and family work.

                      I always felt it was ironic how so many family members and/or friends who either had no dad or whose parents were divorced always held such “romantic” views on marriage AND the opposite sex.

                    • h.h.h.

                      While what you say does have some merit, the fact remains that it is very possible not to be personally impacted by any of this foolishness at all, and still be able to see it and call it out and condemn it, is it not?

                      You can…but if you aren’t impacted on it, why would you speak on it? So consistently and so vociferously?

                    • @Triple H:
                      Why?
                      Because, it’s there.

                      Because, it matters.

                      Because, I live within a community that is under seige by it; a community where my earliest and fondest memories lay; a community that I won’t abandon to the Alien Hordes.

                      Because, my people have fought and died in this place, (Philly), the birthplace of American Democracy, the birthplace of the End of Slavery, and I know we can do better.

                      Because, we matter.

                      Because, I give a damn.

                      That’s why.

                      O.

                    • h.h.h.

                      Interesting.

                      we both give a damn, yet we show it in different ways.

                      fascinating.
                      *scribbles*

                      can you define these, “Alien Hordes”?

                  • Yeaaah, that “they exist” line of thought misses me because I can never get anyone to STOP talking about people they care nothing about lol.

                    If ain’t sh-tness ain’t your flavor, TRY THE OTHER 31.

                    • @Ms. Dtafakari:
                      But, doesn’t that line of thinking lead to what the late great Harvard scholar James Q. Wilson referred to as the Broken Windows Theory? If you simply abandon one area to move to the “31 other flavors”, where does that line of thinking eventually lead?

                      Sotomayor is fighting the good fight…and it is interesting that those who tout the notion of “getting another flavor” are the very same ones who talk a mean game about “the community” – from a distance…

                      O.

                    • h.h.h.

                      humans see what they want to see; myself included. *shrug*

                • @Ms. Rachmo:

                  And my response to you was: do the r*pists find Black Women, or do Black Women find the r*pists? Chicken or egg my friend.

                  http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RrzjzdzZY_k

                  Comments?

                  O.

                  • Rachmo

                    If ind those to be wildly unrelated and am not addressing it. If you want to talk about do Black women find crazy Black men or do Black men find crazy Black women we can discuss that.

                    • @Ms. Rachmo:

                      Really? How so? Are you telling me that the above video is NOT featuring Black Women Behaving Badly (Again!!!) & The Whole Thing Is Caught On Tape(!)?

                      Please explain?

                      http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YJ_sjMC4fiI

                      Comments, please?

                      O.

                    • Rachmo

                      Nope. have a good one.

                    • @Ms. Rachmo:
                      LOL, I didn’t think so. The evidence, is quite damning, I must admit; I don’t blame ya.

                      You have a good day too, madam!

                      :)

                      O.

                  • sweetbee

                    “And my response to you was: do the r*pists find Black Women, or do Black Women find the r*pists? Chicken or egg my friend.”

                    Most offensive comment of the day (if not ever). And I’m wrong for calling a sociopath a sociopath? I’m getting in contact with the Southern Poverty Law Center and other hate groups watchdogs to find out if Tommy Sotomayor and his followers are being observed for their threatening anti-black female hate speech.

                    • @Ms. SweetBee:
                      Not at all; you are more than welcome to your opinions; you are not, however, welcome to your own facts. I seriously doubt you even know what a “sociopath” is, much less in a credentialed position to be able to designate anyone as such.

                      As for your being “offended” – well, to paraphrase a famed legal saying: a Black Woman can be “offended” by the proverbial ham sandwich…

                      Oh, and knock yourself with that SPLC thing; they’ve long been outed as being a lackey of the Anti-Free Speech Left for going after the Manosphere and RooshV in particular (and failed…badly, LOL). The SPLC’s day in the sun has long passed, and is desparately flailing about trying to remain relevant. Even more dyed in the wool Liberals pay much attention to them anymore.

                      So, like I said, good luck with that – all you will have achieved is strengthening the veracity of Mr. Sotomayor’s arguments. Of course, you could do the same thing and work to get the American Sistahood’s own house in order, but that would be too much like right, so…

                      O.

                    • sweetbee

                      It wouldn’t surprise in the least bit to find out that a serial killer of black women and girls had been caught (either in Cleveland or Los Angeles, hotbeds for serial murder of blue-collar black women/girls) and the sociopath went by the online nickname “Obsidian.” Now you’re a rape apologist? Not shocked at all.

                    • h.h.h.

                      t wouldn’t surprise in the least bit to find out that a serial killer of black women and girls had been caught (either in Cleveland or Los Angeles, hotbeds for serial murder of blue-collar black women/girls) and the sociopath went by the online nickname “Obsidian.”

                      wait whut?

                      http://www.reactiongifs.com/r/quizzical.gif

                    • IcePrincess

                      That is the cutest thing ever

                    • @Ms. Sweetbee:
                      “It wouldn’t surprise in the least bit to find out that a serial killer of black women and girls had been caught (either in Cleveland or Los Angeles, hotbeds for serial murder of blue-collar black women/girls) and the sociopath went by the online nickname “Obsidian.” Now you’re a rape apologist?”

                      O: LOL. Madam, if this is the best you can do, please, I beseech thee NOT surrender thy Day Gig…

                      SMH

                      O.

                    • sweetbee

                      Ignored for the sake of faux VSB harmony.

                    • Ignored for the sake of the O-Man’s sanity…

                      O.

                  • ohh, you cannot be serious…but you probably are.

                    • @Ms. Dtafakari:
                      Yes, I am, and why not? Do you deny what you see on the tape? Yes or no?
                      O.

                    • I have no investment in whatever argument you’re advancing about scrapping Black women. My quibble wasn’t with the tape; it was with your premise about “finding” r*pists.” Devoid of context (and even contextually, it’s suspect), your statement makes absolutely no sense to me. You do know that Black girls are raped by their fathers? By their uncles? Do you understand how theorizing a person’s culpability in “finding” their r*pist is nonsensical and completely not a chicken or egg issue? If I “find” you on the streets of Philly, you still have the choice to assault me or not. The encounter is not the problem; the decision is.

              • @Ms. AfroPetite:

                Yes – and you would be wrong:

                http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=B_-7eiig7FE

                Comments?

                O.

                • I refuse to have negative energy fill my space so I don’t partake of this type of evil. The devil has no power here. *throws Holy water at screen*

              • NomadaNare

                http://atlantablackstar.com/2014/05/10/melissa-harris-perry-defends-single-mother-from-the-attacks-of-other-black-women/

                I think MHP does a great job of breaking down the respectability thumpers and supposedly enlightened contrarians. @Rachmo, @Val, too

                • @Nomada:
                  “Four babies by three baby daddies” – question for you, Nomada:

                  Would YOU, wife up that prime catch of a Sista?

                  Your response?

                  EDIT: Just hearing that this Sista is PREGNANT WITH HER FIFTH CHILD(!!) – the (presumably latest) baby daddy has “up and left her”.

                  Again, Nomada – would you go on bended knee and make a Proper Lady out of this Sista – or one like her? Put your highbrow principles to the acid test, good sir!

                  O.

                  • NomadaNare

                    What does whether I would date the woman or not have anything to do with what MHP said? How about this, how does MHP argument relate to respectability thumpers?

                    • @Nomada:
                      Because a key failing of Black intellectuaals is they talk a mean game when their bacon ain’t in the pan; I need to see em walk the walk as much as they talk the talk.

                      MHP is a very attractive Sista who imbibes all the stuff you’re supposed to say as a Black intellectual who’s down on the plantation, but anyone who’s worth their salt (Loury, McWhorter, Sowell, et al) knows she’s a lightweight, at best. Oh, and chances are very high she ain;t trying to live, no put her kids next to, the likes of Sistas who were talking in that video.

                      Like I said, #BillCosbyWasRight2004

                      The Politics of Commonsense is a good thing…

                      O.

                    • NomadaNare

                      The stove is hot regardless of whether anyone’s proverbial bacon is in the pan or not. But even still MHP Perry’s “bacon” was in the fire. She related her own experiences just in that small clip, and basically personally verified that even with all the right decisions being made, she found herself in the same position as the woman speaking about her pregnancies. I guess that’s not really relevant, though because MHP is attractive. I notice how you’ve twice attempted to misdirect the conversation towards the people discussing the issues and asking the questions (first me and the lady in the video, then MHP) rather than confront the issue being discussed. I also find it laughable that McWhorter and Sowell (men with middling careers in shamelessly peddling to the right) are some of your supposed “heavyweights”, while MHP is in contrast a supposed “lightweight” when she is on stage in one-on-one conversation with one of the most celebrated intellectuals of all time, (and this ignoring MHP’s MSNBC news program…) Wasn’t it you who told me it wasn’t worth doing if you’re not getting the shine in reference to black academia and intellectuals, bringing up nonsense about TED talks? I guess that doesn’t apply here, hunh?

                    • @Nomada:

                      “The stove is hot regardless of whether anyone’s proverbial bacon is in the pan or not.”

                      O: *Looks into the camera*

                      “But even still MHP Perry’s “bacon” was in the fire. She related her own experiences just in that small clip, and basically personally verified that even with all the right decisions being made, she found herself in the same position as the woman speaking about her pregnancies.”

                      O: Really? Last time I checked, MHP didn’t have FIVE kids by four baby daddies(!)…

                      “I guess that’s not really relevant, though because MHP is attractive.”

                      O: We live in a visual age, Nomada…*shrugs*

                      “I notice how you’ve twice attempted to misdirect the conversation towards the people discussing the issues and asking the questions (first me and the lady in the video, then MHP) rather than confront the issue being discussed.”

                      O: OK – YES, SHE SHOULD BE SHAMED UNGODLY FOR MAKING ATROCIOUS DECISIONS. How’s that? In fact, we need MORE shaming, NOT less – make people act right. We’ll all be better for it when it happens.

                      :)

                      “I also find it laughable that McWhorter and Sowell (men with middling careers in shamelessly peddling to the right)”

                      O: I guess you’re going to attack their cred now, because they don’t happen to tow the Black Borg Hive Mind now, huh? And you have the nerve to accuse me of being an ideologue? Really?

                      “a re some of your supposed “heavyweights”, while MHP is in contrast a supposed “lightweight” when she is on stage in one-on-one conversation with one of the most celebrated intellectuals of all time, (and this ignoring MHP’s MSNBC news program…)”

                      O: Yawn. How intellectual can you be when every problem you analyze can be reduced to, Racism? I mean, really Nomada, that thing done got tired a looooooong way back. Black folk have far and away more agency, more freedom, and more opportunity than ever. It’s time we started looking at what we’re doing instead of always looking for a White scapegoat.

                      “Wasn’t it you who told me it wasn’t worth doing if you’re not getting the shine in reference to black academia and intellectuals, bringing up nonsense about TED talks? I guess that doesn’t apply here, hunh?”

                      O: McWhorter’s given a TED talk, has a much stronger academic pedigree than MHP and has written books that actually meaningfully address Black folk where they are without infantilizing them by telling them, they’re not getting ahead because, Kyriarchy 21st Century Black American Twinkie Defence. I’ll take him any day of the week over what you presented in the vid of MHP above – and thank God, my sisters didn’t listen to their ilk. They’re married to their one and only hubbies with whom they had all their kids, and we all came from working class roots – in fact, they didn’t go to college until well AFTER they got married(!).

                      So, what OctoSista’s saying, I ain’t tryin’ to hear it – not in 2014, when she can and should have taken some simple steps to make sure she didn’t wind up in that position, and the fact that “public intellectuals” like MHP et al actually cosign that stuff, really tells one all they need to know as to the veracity of their views.

                      O.

                    • NomadaNare

                      This is the last response I will make on this topic, because it is a waste of time. You don’t act as someone that is *truly* interested in addressing the problems at hand. You are, in fact, doing precisely what MHP argues against in the video.

                      First, who cares how many children she had? She was a divorced single mother after having gone to school, gotten the degree and the house. She was qualitatively in the same position as all the woman you keep trying to shame, despite doing all the things you suggest and yet she is where she is now and still thinks that what you advocate is damagin. The fact that a contradiction embodied in MHP is staring you bold in the face and you refuse to acknowledge it is especially telling.

                      Second, I’m not attacking anyone’s “cred” nor am I towing a line. McWhorter and Sowell and Loury all have excellent credentials, top name schools, lauded positions but that doesn’t mean the don’t peddle to the right wing. I disagree with most of their political/economic/social arguments and have no problem addressing them. You threw them out there as counters to MHP with no reference to any of their actual work, you just name dropped them as examples of “thinkers”. I simply asserted that they all happened to lean a particular way and don’t have nearly the shine or eminence as MHP or Bell Hooks despite their supposedly better “pedigree”. Maybe when you get older (or actually engage in some meaningful fashion with real academics) you’ll realize that “pedigree” is usually a poor indicator of competence or ability. Finally, I’d consider Toni Morrison a proper intellectual yet her most lauded and celebrated (and Nobel Prize winning) work, Beloved, can basically be (poorly) boiled down to “Racism gives black people issues and makes them do crazy stuff.” So…yeah.

                      One last thing, again notice your interesting hypocrisy here: in earlier conversations academic “pedigree” didn’t matter because you don’t have one. In fact I distinctly remember you saying something about educated bougie folk thinking a certain way, but now that you assume that the people you presented have “better” credentials because of the name brand schools to which some of them went, then they become relevant. Well, are pedigrees relevant, or not? And if so, why are you fit to argue anything with people that have degrees? If not, then why would you throw out other intellectuals noting nothing but their pedigree?

                    • @ Nomada:
                      “This is the last response I will make on this topic, because it is a waste of time. You don’t act as someone that is *truly* interested in addressing the problems at hand. You are, in fact, doing precisely what MHP argues against in the video.”

                      O: MHP says some of the most off-the-wall stuff going – her gaffes and pablum are a matter of public record. Like I said, the only reason she hasn’t come in for a serious proper intellectual drubbing is because she’s one of the Affirmative Action crowd.

                      As for me interest in the matter at hand, like I said, it’s really simple: do a much better vetting the guys you allow between your thighs, and failing that, use birth control. Simple.

                      “First, who cares how many children she had?”

                      O: Uh, we all do. Who’s paying for her five kids by four baby daddies? Maybe you get down with that village stuff, but I don’t.

                      “She was a divorced single mother after having gone to school, gotten the degree and the house. She was qualitatively in the same position as all the woman you keep trying to shame, despite doing all the things you suggest and yet she is where she is now and still thinks that w hat you advocate is damagin. The fact that a contradiction embodied in MHP is staring you bold in the face and you refuse to acknowledge it is especially telling.”

                      O: If she’s a divorced mama, where’d the other baby daddies come from? Did she marry them BEFORE getting knocked up again or no?

                      Moreover, my commentary on Black Women cuts across Class strata, it’s not localized to just area – as we saw with Solange yesterday. Were it so easy to localize it to one sector of Black America! I think the more we discuss this behaviors, call them out, condemn them, the greater the chance for change. Shaming introduces penalties and costs for those who don’t cooperate for the greater good of us all. The Sista in the video is NOT an appropriate model to follow because, Five Babies By Four Baby Daddies. We need not shirk from openly, plainly, saying that – after all, if Obama can call out Black Deadbeat Dads, we can’t call this out? I’m good with both if you are. :)

                      “Second, I’m not attacking anyone’s “cred” nor am I towing a line.”

                      O: BS – you tow the Leftist line hook, line and sinker, all the way – and that’s cool, but if we’re going to call a spade a spade, that’s what you are, Nomada. No problem, eve though you’re wrong as the proverbial two left shoes, ahem…

                      “McWhorter and Sowell and Loury all have excellent credentials, top name schools, lauded positions but that doesn’t mean the don’t peddle to the right wing. I disagree with most of their political/economic/social arguments and have no problem addressing them. You threw them out there as counters to MHP with no reference to any of their actual work, you just name dropped them as examples of “thinkers”.”

                      O: Oh, come on Nomada, everyone here knows who these folks are, so no need to be so pedantic.

                      “I simply asserted that they all happened to lean a particular way and don’t have nearly the shine or eminence as MHP or Bell Hooks despite their suppo sedly be tter “pedigree”.”

                      O: Yea, bell hooks called Beyonce a TERRORIST – she’s in good company with the “eminentt” MHP, alright…besides, didn’t hooks cease being relevant back in the 90s?

                      “Maybe when you get older (or actually engage in some meaningful fashion with real academics) you’ll realize that “pedigree” is usually a poor indicator of competence or ability.”

                      O: LOL, you call me a hypocrite but it takes one to know one, doesn’t Nomada? You have no idea who I know or who I hung out with; SMH…

                      “Finally, I’d consider Toni Morrison a proper intellectual yet her most lauded and celebrated (and Nobel Prize winning) work, Beloved, can basically be (poorly) boiled down to “Racism gives black people issues and makes them do crazy stuff.” So…yeah.”

                      O: It was also a huge flop at the box office…so yea.

                      “One last thing, again notice your interesting hypocrisy here: in earlier conversations academic “pedigree” didn’t matter because you don’t have one. In fact I distinctly remember you saying something about educated bougie folk thinking a certain way, but now that you assume that the people you presented have “better” credentia ls becau se of the name brand schools to which some of them went, then they become relevant.”

                      O: Actually, I mentioned McWhorter, Sowell and Loury not because of the schools they went to, but because they are just better thinkers than MHP and definitely hooks, will ever be. I only referenced pedigree when you tried to dismiss them by suggesting that their stooges for the Right. Had you not done that, I would have never brought up their, ahem, pedigrees.

                      “Well, are pedigrees relevant, or not? And if so, why are you fit to argue anything with people that have degrees?”

                      O: Both/And, depending.

                      Next question – wait, you said this was your final response, right?

                      ;)

                      O.

              • Yoles

                i have heard that he had a bad experience growing up as well (non pc-his mama wasn’t shyt)

            • @Ms. Rachmo:

              Oh?

              http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lYAQzPSE_bI

              Comments?

              O.

              • camilleblue

                First of all…he lost as soon as he said that black women didn’t raise their own kids during slavery – they raised white kids. Like, wut? Does he not understand that *most times* those women had no choice but to raise the massa’s children? Does he not understand that *most times* we (black people) were not allowed to keep our families together – husbands, wives and children stripped away, sold away from each other constantly as a means to degrade and control? With all of the ramifications from slavery still present today, he said that bullshyt?? And then he’s addressing black women as wh@res and bytches? I mean, come on son. Why does he think that Sheryl Underwood represents the collective thoughts of all black women? Shyt…I’ve got PLENTY of my sons AFRO HAIR saved away. So why is Cheryl Underwood the representation of #blackwomanthought instead of me? You can put me on any platform and I will do nothing but praise the young black boys that I am raising. You wanna put me on your blog so that I can refute what Cheryl said?

                • @Ms. Camille:
                  Not only can you come onto Just Four Guys, you have my personal invitation to write a post and layout your position – and this goes for any other Sista reading this. You will have the floor and be able to layout your position without interruption, and I will personally ensure that you will NOT be personally attacked and instead your position examined, discussed and debated.

                  If anyone is interested, contact me at: theobsidianfiles@hotmail.com, and we’ll set it up!
                  Thanks, Ms. Camille, for your interest and for giving me the chance to put that out there!

                  :)

                  O.

                  • camilleblue

                    Listen, I never even heard of this dude until I starting reading VSB. Let me do some research, and I’ll decide if I would like to discuss further on your platform. I’ll be in touch.

                    • Val

                      No, Camille, don’t research him. It will be a boring and head-shaking experience.

            • @Ms. Rachmo:

              Moreover, even if what we’re saying is true, why is it bad if Mr. Sotomayor’s “banging on” Blacks in the Working Classes, in this case the Sistas there, to get themselves together? Are you seriously saying that’s not an enterprise worth the time or effort? Please explain?

              http://www.justfourguys.com/one-of-the-good-guys-a-conversation-about-why-tyrones-world-is-coming-apart/

              http://www.justfourguys.com/the-devils-advocate-tyrone-the-college-sorting-machine-why-writers-you-know-dont-write-about-him/

              Comments?

              O.

              • Rachmo

                Now that we are off r*pe and back on track what exactly are you asking again? NO LINKS please (unsarcastic voice)

                • @Ms. Rachmo:
                  I would greatly appreciate it if you would take a bit of time to review what I’ve linked to above; it would require writing another article to explain it all NO LINKS style. Thanks!
                  O.

                  • Rachmo

                    Tragically I’m at work. Is this about improving Black women and Blue Collar Brothas (TM) in the dating world?

                    • @Ms. Rachmo:
                      Kinda. It’s more about the travails of “Tyrone”, a Blue Collar Brotha that is so often talked about, but never talked to, in these “Black Male/Female Relationship” questions. Since, in many ways, Tyrone is me, and since the Creator has blessed me with the Gift of the Keyboard, I thought it’s hightime that Tyrone’s voice be finally heard.

                      Comments?

                      O.

                    • Rachmo

                      O can I be real? Also excuse my language. I have a theory about Tyrone. I know many Tyrones. Is Tyrone cute? Is Tyrone funny? If he has either of these two attributes Tyrone is fine and swimming in pu$$y.

                      I have dated/slept with quite a few Tyrones. As long as Tyrone stays his cute funny self Tyrone is not hurting for ladies. No he doesn’t have a degree but he’s no dummy, not very tall, but he has a killer smile so yeah sure we can go out Tyrone. And when Tyrone moves onto the next one it hurts the exact same as Ken, the Morehouse Accounting Manager. (Actually Tyrone may be laughing at Ken bc Tyrone has no student loan debt but that’s neither here nor there). So yes I do believe Tyrone is doing just fine.

                    • I see your point, but I think he’s going a bit deeper than you are. I don’t think he’s thinking about blue collar types, but blue collar AND traditionalist types. For someone who comes from native born African-Americans (and check me on this if I’m wrong about your background O), it’s an odd mix, The only group that would be checking for someone like that would be some hoodrats hung up on Grandma So-and-so’s church or looking for a check. Someone more respectable and traditionalist is more likely to be White collar. (Think about who fills the pews at all these megachurches.) What he’s looking for isn’t what’s popping in Black America, to be honest. I’m sympathetic to that mindset since, I’m far from a traditionalist myself, I also can’t be for freedom of choice if all the choices aren’t viable.

                    • Rachmo

                      Are you saying that Traditional Tyrone cannot find himself a good woman at Mt. Zion Baptist Church?

                    • Pretty much, yeah. (FWIW, I don’t see how men who aren’t particularly devout can date in a church setting, but that’s another post.) Maybe it’s just me, but at least in my neck of the woods, the average woman in a Black church is more likely to be educated, or at least White collar than their Black male equivalents.

                    • menajeanmaehightower

                      Please dig further. Are you saying, in general, good black women don’t go to church, or the ones that do, aren’t traditionalist?

                    • Actually, I’m saying neither. What I am saying is that the typical church going Black woman, in my neck of the woods, is much more likely to be White Collar, at least around here, than the brothers who go. It’s not off the wall to see educated women of status in these churches around here.

                      Simply put, the type of woman Obsidian is checking for isn’t checking for him thanks to wide demographic changes in the Black community as a whole and in the type of woman who is interested in a more traditional lifestyle.

                    • menajeanmaehightower

                      Because they want more white collar dudes?

                    • Yeah, pretty much. One of the more demographic oddities going on (which cuts across race) is that it’s the more educated that are more interested in traditional set-ups, relatively speaking. The poor and working class are new school like a mother.

                    • sweetbee

                      I’m sure the type of woman Obsidian is “checking for” has no pulse, likes to play hide-and-seek in the trunk of his vehicle and is into necrophilia.

                    • WTF? I’m just going based on what he’s said and co-signed in the past. I don’t know dude well enough to know if he’s a killer like that, and neither do you.

                    • sweetbee

                      I’m going by what he says also. And of course, being male you don’t find anything that he says offensive and probably explains your sympathy for him.

                    • There’s a difference between being offensive and assuming dude is a murderer. Plenty of straight a$$holes have never bodied anyone.

                    • sweetbee

                      What other “straight a$$holes” have I referred to as murderer but that one? And I like how offended you guys are.

                    • h.h.h.

                      so you’re no different than him.

                      cool beans. *places you in the obsidian box*

                    • sweetbee

                      I actually don’t care what box you put me in.

                    • h.h.h.

                      cool!

                      so how many murders do you have? you writing from D-Block? or nah?

                    • sweetbee

                      *Kanye shrug* Whatever… (Dig a little deeper. Clue: I don’t hate groups of people including black men, so being accused of murder or being a prisoner doesn’t offend me.)

                    • h.h.h.

                      Little O doesn’t hate groups of people either, Ms D-D-D-Block, he just wants folks to do… ‘better’.

                      (edit – i said i’ll do better).

                    • Val

                      I don’t know, 3xH, he doesn’t seem too fond of Black women en mass.

                    • h.h.h.

                      sweetbee don’t seem too fond of black males …. so to me…no different, just using different words

                    • sweetbee

                      Well, by all means outline what I’ve said to offend black men writ large. I’m off today ’cause you know… So I’ve got all day.

                    • h.h.h.

                      i can’t.

                      so i guess i’m wrong, yet i won’t change my opinion…

                      so…

                      *waves fake white flag of retreat*

                    • sweetbee

                      Even the stuff I may find infuriating about black men wouldn’t ’cause me to obsess over said stuff like some “straight a$$hole” who shall not be named does with black women. I charge it to the game. I don’t own books or subscribe to blogs about the pathology and inherit “evilness” of black men. I spend more energy on non-black blogs defending black men from racist trolls and even that takes a toll. I actually have never had my heart broken by a black man, so I can’t relate to people who lash out like that. Maybe when a black dude does hurt I’ll change my tune.

                    • sweetbee

                      I want people to do better. All of humanity can do better. I don’t pick and choose which of mankind isn’t picking up their fair slack.

                    • h.h.h.
                    • @Ms. Rachmo:

                      “O can I be real?”

                      O: Please!

                      “Also excuse my language.”

                      O: Not at all…

                      “I have a theory about Tyrone.”

                      O: OK…

                      “I know many Tyrones. Is Tyrone cute? Is Tyrone funny? If he has either of these two attributes Tyrone is fine and swimming in pu$$y.”

                      O: Yes, I wouldn’t deny that; conventionally attractive Brothas always do well no matter the clime or time. No denying that.

                      So, let’s use yours truly – I stand at 5’8″ and worked in the Trades all my days – and I have been roundly dismissed, SOLELY because of those two factors alone. And in the most meanest, harshest of ways, at that.

                      What do you say to that?

                      “I have dated/slept with quite a few Tyrones.”

                      O: TMI…?

                      “As long as Tyrone stays his cute funny self Tyrone is not hurting for ladies. No he doesn’t have a degree but he’s no dummy, not very tall, but he has a killer smile so yeah sure we can go out Tyrone.”

                      O: If I may, Ms. Ratchet here in the forum the other day, said that you were somewhat unusual, and I agree, from our interactions I would say this is true. I do not know if it would be wise to extrapolate your personal example, good as it is, to the rest of your Sistas.

                      “And when Tyrone moves onto the next one it hurts the exact same as Ken, the Morehouse Accounting Manager . (Actu ally Tyrone may be laughing at Ken bc Tyrone has no student loan debt but that’s neither here nor there). So yes I do believe Tyrone is doing just fine.”

                      O: That, would be putting Hope before (my and many, many others) Experience, I’m afraid…

                      O.

                    • Rachmo

                      “So, let’s use yours truly – I stand at 5’8″ and worked in the Trades all my days – and I have been roundly dismissed, SOLELY because of those two factors alone. And in the most meanest, harshest of ways, at that.

                      What do you say to that?”- don’t know what to tell you my brother. I’ve dated shorter guys (like 5’3″) I’ve been rejected myself for being too tall, too short, too Black, too White, too curly hair, too straight hair, wearing glasses, and as we all know being “too together.” It happens even to the best of us.

                      “O: If I may, Ms. Ratchet here in the forum the other day, said that you were somewhat unusual, and I agree, from our interactions I would say this is true. I do not know if it would be wise to extrapolate your personal example, good as it is, to the rest of your Sistas.”- I am no snowflake. I’m going off the people I surround myself with and they’ve dated all kinds of guys as well as Tyrone. And I’m always going to be a romantic optimist. That’s how I roll. *throws up gang sign*

                    • @Ms. Rachmo:
                      “don’t know what to tell you my brother. I’ve dated shorter guys (like 5’3”) I’ve been rejected myself for being too tall, too short, too Black, too White, too curly hair, too straight hair, wearing glasses, and as we all know being “too together.” It happens even to the best of us.”

                      O: Yea…

                      “I am no snowflake. I’m going off the people I surround myself with and they’ve dated all kinds of guys as well as Tyrone. And I’m always going to be a romantic optimist. That’s how I roll. *throws up gang sign*”

                      O: And I shall always be a ruthless pragmatist. :)

                      Look, I have no problem with whatever the ladies want to have in their lives; they can and should be free to associate with whomever they want, for any reason they want. Nothing is promised to any of us in this life, life ain’t fair, yada yada. I get it.

                      I just want Sistas to be HONEST. STOP saying things like, “All the good Black Men are fill in the blank”. I never say such things about Sistas myself. For example, I know for a fact that there were Sistas in my past who were interested in me, but I wasn’t interested in them, and I didn’t need some overarching unified theory to explain how or why – they either didn’t turn my crank, or had kids that I wasn’t trying to be saddled with, etc. No big whup, doesn’t mean they’re bad people, and doesn’t make me a meanie either.

                      Remember that event that I attended with Paul Carrick Brunson I told you about? That’s an example of what I mean. A lot of Sistas at those kinds of events will bemoan the mythical “dearth of eligible Brothas” when what they mean is, they want PCB clones – and I for one, am perfectly good with that. I just want them to say it and take some personal responsibility for once in their lives.

                      As for you, LOL, no offence, but its something akin to the Jersey Devil ot Bigfoot. Errbody’s heard of em, but no one’s actually SEEN em, up close and personal, and again, no big whup. I actually am quite fond of you, and can completely get why other guys would be too, if you’re anything close to how you present yourself online. Just saying that they ain’t enough of you to go around and many, many, manymanymany Sistas of your cohort don’t finally get their heads on straight until they’ve been shot out by Mr. Big, or have gone through the ringer of a horrid marriage with Mr. Wrong, often with a few kids, and debt, and weight, in tow, and FINALLY, at the last, they see the Light and wanna come my way.

                      Oh, Joy!

                      O.

                    • menajeanmaehightower

                      Are blue collar black men really hurting that bad? You make it seem that all blue collar black men are these wonderful people who get overlooked by black elite males and all black women except for the ratchets of the group. Are yall really hurting this much?

                    • ForeverCC

                      i’m married to a blue collar man. and he’s never had a hard time finding women to date.

                    • menajeanmaehightower

                      I’m really trying to understand why O feels that blue collar guys are getting the worst women.

                    • ForeverCC

                      me, too. fabulous is my default setting :)

                    • Val

                      He only sees what fits his ideology.

                    • h.h.h.

                      i’m not O, but from my pov, dudes that have money and confidence…(and money ties into confidence) pull the most women

                      lack of money, lack of confidence in self, leads to a downward circling spiral of looking from the outside, justified by personal experiences

                      but that’s my pov. blue collar, low fund-making, boring, ‘tyrones’… ‘dont win’.

                    • God Shammgod

                      why do folks assume that blue collar = low funds?

                    • It’s generally because unless you are hip to the game, you can’t really tell the caked off dudes from the regular peons in blue collar settings.

                    • camilleblue

                      I was just about to ask the same thing.

                    • h.h.h.

                      because we keep looking at the 1995 salary.com website instead of the 2014 version?

                      yo no se

                    • Thriftybynature

                      Or low confidence

                    • Iron workers in NY are hiring. They make 30 an hour.

                    • Val

                      Hard to get an apprenticeship in that union though. Lots of nepotism I hear.

                    • Maaaaaaaaaaaaaan. If I was physically able to do it I’d try my darnest to be in it even with the challenges of nepotism.

                    • miss t-lee

                      Listen.

                    • God Shammgod

                      every blue collar i know is swimming in the cootie cat (word to Joseline)

                    • God Shammgod

                      didnt you say your man looked like Omari Hardwick? He out here in construction boots(or anything that implies he is good with his hands) ? giiiirl *remembers to respect marriage*

                    • ForeverCC

                      buahahaha he was a police officer (not anymore). but he djs…so he is good with his hands and he has rhythm! lol let me shut up before i have to fight you e-heifers off

                    • Val

                      Djing is a fun way to make a living. And, a good/ popular dj can make some serious money.

                    • ForeverCC

                      yeah – he has a “real” job but djing paid for christmas and vacations lol

                    • menajeanmaehightower

                      Chad Coleman from The Wire!!! LISTEN!!!

                    • God Shammgod

                      Cutty the MILF slayer

                    • Val

                      Cutty the boxing coach?

                    • menajeanmaehightower

                      YES!

                    • Val

                      Okay, sometimes my gayness makes mine eyes blind to certain men’s attractiveness. Like that dude on Law & Order you find attractive. Lol

                    • menajeanmaehightower

                      Which one? Oh, Christopher Meloni?!? Go have several seats. Now. He is hot.

                    • Val

                      Lol. *Goes to sit in the corner.*

                    • menajeanmaehightower

                      How can you not find him attractive? What guys do you think are hot?

                    • Val

                      Well, I think Jeffrey Wright is very handsome. It’s hard to come up with a list since I don’t really give that a lot of thought. Know what I’m sayin’?

                    • menajeanmaehightower

                      Pretty much.

                      He’s ok. Too old for my taste. Nonso Anozie is more of my type in the big scheme of things.

                    • Val

                      Too old? That Meloni guy isn’t exactly a spring chicken.

                    • menajeanmaehightower

                      He doesn’t look old though. He looks like he could pick you up and throw you…

                    • God Shammgod

                      You aint NEVAH lied!!!

                    • menajeanmaehightower

                      Val gets a pass since she aint know betta.

                    • camilleblue

                      Lol #blissfulgheyignorance???

                    • menajeanmaehightower

                      Him.

                    • camilleblue

                      Lol!

                      Sham the *FCC* outchea trying to thirst trap us. I see you gurl..

                    • @Ms. Mena:
                      “Are blue collar black men really hurting that bad?”

                      O: Yes. Brothas who are sharp, who have a Blue Collar occupation but not a Blue Collar mind, tastes, orientation? Absolutely.

                      “You make it seem that all blue collar black men are these wonderful people who get overlooked by black elite males and all black women except for the ratchets of the group.”

                      O: Nonsense; I give you my take on the matter, written on Labor Day Weekend last year at J4G:

                      http://www.justfourguys.com/a-blue-collar-brotha-speaks-at-last/

                      “Are yall really hurting this much?”

                      O: http://www.amazon.com/Promises-Can-Keep-Motherhood-Marriage/dp/0520241134

                      For the kind we’re talking about – the Tyrones – “Yaaaaassssss”…

                      O.

                    • Val
          • @Ms. AfroPetite, Ms. Val:

            It is a gross mistake to think that Mr. Sotomayor is somehow “contributing to the problem” of Black Male-Female relations; indeed, if anything, he’s trying to salvage what’s left of it(!).

            For example, he does indeed weigh in on the (relatively rare, when compared to Black Women, sadly) phenomenon of White Women Behaving Badly & The Whole Thing Is Caught On Tape(!):

            http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XbkgWZOUr6U

            Comments?

            O.

        • Did you see the video where Tommy Sotomayor got aired the entire f*ck out? Here’s the video:

          https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nNvF2_2aaQo

          • OMG!!! LMAO! These vloggers be so pressed about views and such.

            • And needless to say, he was royally p*ssed- to the point that he made about THREE response videos, LMAO!!!

              • For what? Do these people LIVE on the internet? How you arguing with people via videos? For what? I can’t take any of these people seriously.

          • menajeanmaehightower

            This video is too long. What does it say?

          • menajeanmaehightower

            This video is too long. What does it say?

            • Basically, it called him out for being a liar, a hypocrite and a charlatan, among other things.

              • YOU CAN’T BE PRO BLACK IF YOU HAVE A WHITE D**K IN YOUR MOUTH!

                –flat lined–

                • Rachmo

                  OH MY BOL

                • I fell out laughing behind that one, LMAO!!!

                • Val

                  A whole lot of Black people involved in the Black Power movement wouldn’t had their pro-Black credentials taken away if that were true.

                  • Guess we gotta ignore all of Frantz Fanon’s work now.

                    • Val

                      And Angela Davis’.

          • Val

            It’s good that he’s getting checked on his bs.

            • You knew it had to be coming at some point, Val. Someone can only go on rambling and ranting for so long, until one person goes “Wait a gotdamn minute!”, LOL!

          • Is it just me, or am I the only one who doesn’t get either his popularity or his shade?

            • Think of him as the John Stossel of the hood. Remember John Stossel- who used to be on ABC’s 20/20? He was the guy that would come out and catch people in lies on one of the show’s segments. If you’ve ever seen them, that’s how you look at this video.

              • Oh I love John Stossel. I lived for his segments, especially since he usually came on after my mom yelled at me because she hated her job and wanted to see her youngest son cry. He was manna from heaven. And he’s a good libertarian to boot.

          • Epsilonicus

            There was a part of this where Tommy sounded like Stinkmeaner

            • Why am I not surprised? He always sounds like Stinkmeaner, LOL!

        • And believe it or not, the issue of colorism somewhat plays a huge part in it as well- but that’s another story for another day…

          • Val

            Yeah, I’m sure there are all sorts of ills involved in this stuff.

        • He makes my skin itch.

          • Yawn. Address the arguments, or it didn’t happen. Even if everything this video is saying is 100% true about Tommy Sotomayor, it still doesn’t address, meaningfully, the arguments he raises nor the points he makes. It’s all bunk, but then I suppose that’s the best Black folk can do: the Politics of Personal Destruction. Nice…

            NOT

            O.

            PS: This is NOT “aimed” at Ms. Dtafakari; just tacking it at the “end” of the “Anti-Tommy Sotomayor” thread, LOL.

            • h.h.h.

              i know this is a radical concept, but…

              the messenger can be just as important as the message.

              shockin’, ain’t it?

              • Val

                Lol. I tried to upvote you twice but it wouldn’t work.

              • @Triple H:
                Yes…for the feeble of Mind…

                I really need Black folk to do better.

                O.

                • h.h.h.

                  it’s not a feeble of mind thing.

                  humanity’s experiences colour their thinking, it takes an excessive lack of emotion to effectively divorce our personal feelings and discuss things with 100% objectivity. h-m- sapiens are a social species, and as such we effectively utilize communication to connect and influence.

                  sometimes words just don’t cut it, doc.

            • Yawn.

              If my response (which wasn’t in reply to you at all) bored you, you can always keep it moving.

            • blackphilo

              “…but then I suppose that’s the best Black folk can do: the Politics of Personal Destruction.”

              What does that even mean as a generalization? Why would anyone sensible suppose that? And how could random commentators be personally destroyed by expressions of distaste in this here forum?

          • Like I said elsewhere, I don’t get how he became the voice that is so polarizing. He’s hardly milquetoast, but him of all people? I’ve seen his work passed around, and I’m very nonplussed by him.

            • @Mr. Todd:
              Could that be, because much of what he says you can relate to – even if you disagree with aspects of his personal life, style of delivery, et al?
              O.

              • FWIW, he confuses Black women for Women, period. That said, there’s nothing wrong about his content. But you are right about the style of delivery.

                • @Mr. Todd:
                  How so? I don’t see him “confusing” anything – his video presentations are quite pointed and precise, in fact. Please explain?

                  As for his style of delivery, as I explained to Ms. Rachmo yesterday, I do not share it; I prefer a more civil approach, LOL. Nevertheless, one cannot deny the points he makes – well, not intellectually honest people, anyway…

                  O.

                  • What I mean is that if he broadened his approach, women of all classes and races do the things that he discusses. I don’t know him like that, but it seems based on what he’s put out there that he has a blinkered perspective on what’s out there.

    • Rachmo

      “I mean date IR but why do you have to denigrate a whole group of people to justify what you’re doing?”- hoooollleeeeerrrrrr

    • OhNevermind

      THOSE BWE FOLK ARE NUUUUUUUUUUUTZ! Whats funny is when you think about it though. Those BWE women would have been perfect girlfriends for . . .DONALD STERLING!. They would have never brought a Black man to the game, they would have never come to the game because there would have been black men playing!

      • Val

        Lol. That’s true about them and Sterling. And sad.

      • Ms Butterfly

        No they wouldn’t; you clearly don’t read the blog.

    • sweetbee

      Curious: are black men who hate black women tied to Black Men’s Empowerment?

      • Val

        I’ve never heard of a Black Men’s Empowerment movement, if that’s your question. Black men of this ilk probably have their forums though. I’m just not privy to them.

      • @Ms. SweetBee:
        First, please define by what you mean, is “hate”?
        O.

      • Ms Butterfly

        What would a black men empowerment group look like? What would they be about?

    • Clarissa Doll

      honestly that reminds me more of black men than anything, alot of black women still like and want to date black men, its black men constantly talking down about black woman

  • Miche

    1) am I the only one who now wants ice cream?

    2) I doubt I will tune into this. Seems like fodder for ignorant youtube comments.

    3) I think like most things, generally people’s views on these things evolve as a person’s own experiences, likes, values, etc evolve. When I was younger (read illegal) I was very racially open to the whole dating thing. At the HS I went to, the only people who had race “issues” where the hicks in the pick-up trucks and confederate flag bumper stickers (I grew up in small town Texas) and the handful of black guys who openly expressed they preferred white girls due to stereotypes (or perhaps experienced truths) that they were more sexually open. As for me, I found anyone with a nice build, intelligent convo and strong jawline to be attractive. Bring ’em on!!

    As I entered into my college years and began to discover who I was as a woman, namely a black woman, I became very militant in my beliefs/views on interracial dating. I thought any man who dated a white woman to be a sell-out and any black woman who dated a white man to be trying to “pass”. I wrote poems, love songs, letters and chants behind my black men and my solidarity and support of their struggle, and i even became a lil disenchanted and critical of guys who “only” dated me because I fit the “light skin, long hair” motiff. I went natural, studied Kwanzaa and quoted Marcus Garvey.
    Then… I remembered that my grandmother is very white. Like for real white. I’m talking Irish, maiden name of Shryock. Remembered? I know.. Don’t judge me. I guess I just never saw her as “white”. She was just granny. At that point I realized how ignorant it was for me to be anti-TheSwirl. lol.

    Now, I believe I’m somewhere between those two areas. I’m still unashamedly pro-black, pro-black men (and black babies), natural and quote Marcus Garvey… however I’ve realized that that does not mean that I have to be anti-white. I also realized that it wasn’t interracial dating I had an issue with.. it was specifically white/black dating… and that i didnt REALLY have an issue with that… just the whole self-hate that some use as their reasoning for it. I also realized that I am still very attracted to anyone with a nice build, intelligent convo and strong jawline…

    • ED

      Came full circle

      • Miche

        In full disclosure though, now that I’m a mother of a black boy… I’d have to admit that I do worry if a guy from another race (namely white) would “get” that whole dynamic. After the Trayvon Martin verdict, I had an emotionally charged convo with a good (white male) friend of mine about how I felt about it all as a mother. His response, as much as he wanted to understand why I was frustrated, was passive and confused.

        • I don’t think one can adequately teach racism to white people. Either they get it or they don’t.

          • NomadaNare

            And most of that “getting it” has to do with how honest they are in willingness to implicate themselves.

            • Meh. I’d just rather they do better than play the White Liberal Hustler game. That’ll make me terry cloth soft in a hurry.

            • Val

              “…willingness to implicate themselves.”

              I think that’s key.

            • Shamira

              Why yew so smaht??

          • Starita34

            White people can never understand what it is to be Black, period. Just as the inverse is true.

            The individual’s concept of race, racism, discrimination, LIFE will be colored by their life experiences, including, but not limited to, their race.

    • menajeanmaehightower

      I felt your entire struggle while reading this. Very descriptive.

    • I want frozen yogurt!

      • IcePrincess

        Don’t forget to order extra sprinkles on panama’s

    • OhNevermind

      I’m obviously a black man But I do have some recent “other” Ancestry as well. My larger issue is with my own wife who is half white, and very lightskinned.
      I love her with all my heart, but folk would call me a sellout.

  • Dimka Mati Braswell

    Swirling is inter-racial dating now?? I need to get into these make up a new word for something that’s pretty self explanatory meetings because it sounds like a new workout fad.

    As for a new reality show, I just glad I never watched those things. Little women, as in dwarfs, now have a reality show. Do we need that much reality?? Aren’t our lives stressful & exciting enough that we don’t need to be witness to a crime? (Fix My Life, The T.O. edition or DMX edition; Real Housewives’, the edition where dude a husband killed himself, etc) Are we that bored with day to day living that we need others to entertain us with such ratchetness of the 3rd kind & make up anything to put on TV? Sigh, I’ma go read a book!!!!

    • Supply and demand lol As soon as people decide they hate reality tv the networks will put forth effort in new shows, until then, these shows continue to reign.

      • Dimka Mati Braswell

        Supply & demand is why I don’t have cable but Netflix & Hulu…I never demanded what they’re supplying. I agree you with, AfroPetite. It’ll just continue.

        You know, I’d like some real reality TV. A man/woman working a job/ going to college for a-BA, Masters or Ph.D/ raising kids/ opening a business/dealing with crazy family members or coworkers while trying to maintain their home/save the world/ & keep this bills paid. That’s some reality TV & I have a whole bunch of characters for that!!

        • You don’t have to demand it because everyone else is and majority rules :-) Also, a show about something which you have suggested wouldn’t take off in this current era. This is the golden age of celebrity obsession and everyone (not literally everyone lol) aspiring to be rich, famous, or infamous. No one wants to hear about people working “boring” jobs or going to college and such. Nothing glitzy of glamorous about keeping house and living a life void of chex tapes, money and alcohol.

          • Kema

            “No one wants to hear about people working “boring” jobs or going to college and such.”

            It sounds too much like real life. I watch TV to escape. lol

        • There is a bit of demand for what you speak of, but it doesn’t draw in the serious bucks. That reality show with Tia and Tamera Mowry is in that same vein.

          • Yea. I do enjoy Tia and Tamera but people want “drama”. Those women are just wholesome people who try to live their lives without such drama and people dislike anything positive as it relates to entertainment. The more negative the better.

            • Val

              I used to like Rev. Run’s show. There was no craziness. It was just a cute show. I’d like to see more of that kind of show.

              • esa

                i dont know .. seeing Run flaunt all that money while Jay is dead and DMC was bankrupt made me feel some kinda way. i woulda been much happier watching it if i didnt know the back story.

                • Val

                  DMC was broke? How’d that happen?

                  • esa

                    the story is ugly. i’ve heard different inside sources but since i dont have straight facts i cant say.

                • From my understanding, at least Jay’s family is alright. What happened to DMC?

              • IcePrincess

                The Family Hustle is the new Run’s House. Mondays @ 9 on VH1. I kno what you’re thinking…..but give it a try if you like wholesome reality shows. Everyone I kno likes it.

                • Val

                  Oh, okay, that’s the one with TI and Tiny? I don’t have cable so I haven’t seen it but I’ve heard about it.

            • menajeanmaehightower

              When i had cable, i loved watching them. That show and Flipping Out were the only two shows i could watch and not cringe. Even though Jeff (from Flipping Out) was over the top sometimes, the homes he renovated and decorated were beautiful.

    • Kema

      “Are we that bored with day to day living that we need others to entertain us with such ratchetness of the 3rd kind & make up anything to put on TV?”

      Yes… yes we are

    • “Swirling is inter-racial dating now?? I need to get into these make up a new word for something that’s pretty self explanatory meetings because it sounds like a new workout fad.”

      Nah, swirling is centered around people who only date outside of their race. Notice every time you see them, they make it a point to bring that little tidbit up.

      • Rachmo

        Thank you for clarifying that for me. I was a bit lost like oh I thought I was just dating does it have a name?

        • They are two different things, Rachmo. The problem is when the swirlers try to make those concepts into being one and the same- and they clearly are not.

  • h.h.h.

    the preview looks like the *90 top crazy things we did in the 90s* show on VH1…or something like that. if this ever gets to cable, i’m sure blacktwitter will have a field day of verbal nukes and think pieces.

    me personally, i encourage the opposite gender to do what makes you happy and stressfree. get you a malik, wellington, herbert, and party all the tiiiiiiiiime; besides most sistas ain’t my sister, not like we have to be loyal to each other.

    As-salamu alaykum, jah bless, and maseltov.

    • menajeanmaehightower

      “if this ever gets to cable, i’m sure blacktwitter will have a field day of verbal nukes and think pieces.” Which will keep the show (documentary) popular and on the air.

  • Epsilonicus

    As someone who is in an IR relationship, I wanna see this. I love the comedic angle. I love funny racial jokes.

    I also want some ice cream now. I may do that and get a shoe shine on my lunch break.

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