Dating, Relationships, & Sex, Theory & Essay

The Responsibility of Knowledge and Compassion

manThe recent details and verdict in the Steubenville, Ohio, rape case seems to have rightly brought a lot of the issues regarding rape front and center. I watched the Melissa Harris-Perry show this weekend and there was a significant discussion centering around sexual assault and how so many of the conversations around the topic have all centered around the woman’s ability to prevent herself from getting raped as opposed to the idea that perhaps, men just shouldn’t rape women.

Oh, and that if you know a woman like Ronnie from The Player’s Club, you should stay away from her at all costs. She’s a woman with a male mentality. Or at least a “male” mentality when it comes to her outlook on how the world works. I do happen to know a woman like her. And yes, she’s in Atlanta. And she may or may not be apart of my family. I’ll never tell.

But, while listening to all of the discussions, I really took a minute to think about the very idea and concept of sexual assault. See, I can honestly say that I’ve spent very little time ever actually concerning myself with it. To be completely real, not until my daughter showed up did I start to really think about the possibility of “bad” things happening. By bad, I mean roughly anything too. Which is odd considering many of the places I’ve lived in life where “bad” things were just commonplace. Perhaps because of my background I’ve just been desensitized to certain violent acts. But nearly all of them involved violence of men towards other men. For me, thats a norm (or was). The fact that violence is a norm is problematic in and of itself, but that’s another talk show.

Let’s just skip the academics and get right to the point. I have four sisters. To my knowledge, none of them have been victims of rape or sexual assault. To my knowledge. But more importantly, I’ve never even thought to ask. It has never dawned on me ’til today, amidst a Twitter “rant” per se, to ever ask any of my sisters – and we’re all close – if they’ve ever had anybody force them to do something against their will.

Then comes the second half of that thought process: I’m afraid to find out.

Think about it, what do you do if you ask your sister, and she says, “yes, I was raped. But I didn’t tell anybody because who was going to believe me?” What do you do if you ask all of your sisters and they tell you that they’ve been the victims of some sort of sexual violence?

I used to date a woman, years ago, who told me that she was the victim of rape when she was very young. I didn’t even know her that well but that bit of information rocked me to my corps. It still does and I haven’t spoken to her in quite some time.

What do you do when somebody that you actually love and care about tells you that something so heinous happened to them? That’s what gets lost to me in so many of the ridiculous commentary and opinions and the whole  idea that a woman can prevent it from happening. Yes, the chick in Steubenville was drunk off her gourd. That doesn’t mean that she asked for it. And considering some of the statements that the main dude made against her, I mean, as his parent…don’t you kind of have to move? If I found out that my child was the one who engaged in those activities and got caught saying stuff like, “she’s basically a dead boy. I just want some sexual attention.” (or whatever exactly it was that he said), I’d be going to jail as well.

Am I ever going to look at my sister and wonder what she did to invite that violence should she tell me something happened to her? Hell no. The rage I’d feel wouldn’t allow me the time to even allow for that. There’s never a reason to violate somebody’s person, no matter what the circumstance and I’m a bit surprised that anybody thinks that is okay. It truly dumbfounds me

But again, I’ve never asked. And as much as it’s on my mind, I’m likely not to ever do that. Part me of believes that if something ever did happen, I’d already know. But part of me also knows that my sisters know that I’ve got a dangerous aspect to my life. One that’s gotten itself into trouble before and who has been a “squeeze first, ask questions last” mentality type of guy. But the other piece is, I’m just not ready for that answer to be “yes.”

I’m just not. That would be real pain to me. The idea that women so strong could be turned helpless and given up on hope while some man (or Ronnie) decided to prove to her that her life wasn’t her own bothers me as I’m writing this.

The thing that makes the Steubenville case so important is that the guys told on themselves and there are like a million “accomplices”. We’ve never had such a window into how a woman was treated so disrespectfully before. Hell, she didn’t even know until she found out via others. I can’t imagine what that feels like.

Ultimately, this entire episode caused me to evaluate my own thoughts because despite being raised around nothing but women, I’ve always viewed them as sisters, not women. But when I realize they’re both sisters AND women, I have to realize that the possibilities are endless. Hell, I don’t even like going out with them because of the attention they get.

Because of where that attention might lead and what that might lead me to (have to) do. Its the proverbial head in the sand approach.

Seems like the approach many of us have taken. The problem is that at some point you have to take a look to see what you’re avoiding, so you can make sure you’re still avoiding it. Hopefully you don’t see a trail of blood and tears.

Because once you know, you know, ya know. And if you know you have to do something, right?

Maybe that’s the problem. And that’s a problem.

-VSB P

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Damon Young

Panama Jackson is pretty fly for a light guy. When he's not saving humanity with his words or making music with his mouth, you can find him at your mama's mama's house drinking her fine liquors. He believes the children are our future and is waiting to find out if he is the 2nd most interesting man in the world.

  • Marshal

    The whole city has screwed up priorities, from the Rapits, the other FB players that testified in exchange for immunity, the high school, the coaches and staff, the parents, other students, and (I’m honestly going there)- The Victim and FRIENDS of the Victim. Where were They when the Victim was intoxicated that she remembered Nothing? Why didn’t they Also Act to Intervene and Protect her?? Why was Anyone even taking pictures like they wer papparatzzi rather than People who KNEW Underage Drinking and Sex was Dead Wrong???

    In no Way, Shape or Form am I condoning Rape, what happened to that girl or even Shaming her. I’m merely stating Common Sense and Asking Questions; hindsight is 20/20 but Not Being Underage Drinking and Having Sex , with regards to Everyone Else, was a Choice all of those teens had and yet they Chose the Latter. Not Raping ANYONE was a Choice the two Boys had and they Chose the Latter. There was No Knowledge or Compassion that night or the days after that, only people Keeping Quiet and Others saving their own asses. Stubenville and it sresidents are a sorry excuse for a town and community just like Penn State and the town that university resides in it was, as well as the people who live there

    • http://www.iamyourpeople.com I Am Your People

      “The Victim and FRIENDS of the Victim.”

      That’s the saddest part. Do you know how this whole thing started? Jane Doe and her ‘friend’ had some sort of beef, so her friend arranged for her to be drugged and raped by the football players as revenge.

      • AfroPetite

        That sounds like some ‘Mean Girls’ ish taken to an extreme and unnecessary level :-(

      • Todd

        Wha? You kiddin’ right?

      • Marshal

        That may be the case, but Jane didn’t have Other Friends??? And they Still Left her Hanging to be raped and humiliated digitally and over the Internet??? This is why I can count on at least both hands the People I Trust and Care About, the saying goes “with Friends like These, who Needs Enemies”……

        This crime is a spider’s web of people involved, from Sports to Regular Kids to even School Staff and Parents, not just the Rapists and the Victim.

        • Todd

          And this is why the term is rape CULTURE. There’s this odd belief among some that rapists are about a few dudes just wanting to control women. The thing is that rapists, like all criminals, need a context in which to operate. Very often, women are the ones enabling and occasionally helping out. (Google Karla Homolka if you want to give all faith in humanity today.) The thing is that few people are willing to own up to their part of fighting crime.

      • http://verysmartbrothas.com Panama Jackson

        The whole shit is just sickening really.

      • LMNOP

        I hope they get charged for that. So messed up.

  • http://saysmeblog.wordpress.com Aly

    Oh dear, I’m afraid it’s gonna be one of THOSE days. Welp, I’ll see y’all tomorrow.

    • That Ugly Kid

      Said the same thing. Guess we were about due to have one of those sensitive topics that’s gonna keep everyone on edge and in defense mode for the entire week.

      • Marshal

        Not having This Discussion, like Not having one about Race and Racism, is what is going to keep situations like this and others going until the converation finally Does get Talked About. Avoiding it and Sweeping it under the Rug does nothing for the Past, the Present, and it doesn’t help to Avoid Future Incidents

        • That Ugly Kid

          Who said anything about sweeping it under the rug? I’m just agreeing with Aly that things could get ugly.

          • Marshal

            I wasn’t saying you personally, just Those who believe not talking about or acknowledgin it will make the Elephants in society will just magically disappear…..they won’t

    • Rewind

      You’re not ready for an emotional Tuesday?

      • nillalatte

        Dude, I just watched Seven Pounds. A movie that I have continued to avoid for how long because I knew that it was too emotional for me. But, I finally sat through it — and cried all the damn way. I think my emotions are fairly worn at this point. :|

        • Rewind

          Nilla….we can always make it worse.

          ALWAYS.

          Have you watched the Devil’s Double yet?

          • nillalatte

            Um, no. But, I lived with one! :D You know I stay my arse far away from Iraqis now. Not that all of them are psychopaths, but I ain’t gonna put myself in a situation where I might have to be a martyr for the cause. ;)

            • Rewind

              Hahahaha you damn fool.

              Don’t worry, that isn’t going to happen again. But that is a good movie, gut wrenching too.

      • kid video

        I’d prefer Taco Tuesday.

        • Rewind

          Mmm…tacos.

          I second that notion.

          • http://thejahfiles.blogspot.com/ B. Brown

            I like tacos.

            • Rewind

              +3 for tacos. Let’s make this happen.

              • http://www.styleillusions.com WIP

                i also wish a taco would appear right now…

                • Rewind

                  We officially declare a taco party NOW.

                  • Keisha Brown

                    Salsas like Victor Cruz in the end zone

        • http://verysmartbrothas.com Panama Jackson

          At my job it’s Taco Wednesdays. It’s the only day I make it a point to go to the cafeteria.

          • Rewind

            Man, save a tray tomorrow!

        • miss t-lee

          Definitely Tacos!

        • http://dominicanabanana.wordpress.com Asiyah

          Mmmmm…tacos…yummy!

      • http://verysmartbrothas.com Panama Jackson

        Well, I tried to institute Thuglife Tuesdays a few years back but nobody wanted to talk reckless all day and tote guns. P*ssies.

        • Rewind

          Bet they played some Pac and thought that fulfilled the quota though, huh?

        • http://dominicanabanana.wordpress.com Asiyah

          I’m always in the mood to be a thug!

    • mena

      As long as we avoid the commenters that may try to start something by minimizing the seriousness of this then there shouldn’t be a problem. Just don’t engage and move on to the next comment.

      • Camilleblu

        +1….but me thinks it ain’t gonna be easy.

        • Dignan

          Camille, I left you a reply in yesterday’s comments. Couldn’t resist.

          • camilleblue

            *going to see what foolishness dignan is setting me up for*

          • camilleblue

            you’re a nut!! and i refuse to answer that question on the grounds that it may incriminate me!! SOOO JUST KIDDING!

      • http://verysmartbrothas.com Panama Jackson

        I do think that the post sets the tone. My post wasn’t mad brolic or ridiculous. Hopefully folks can follow suit.

    • http://verysmartbrothas.com Panama Jackson

      But why do things have to go there. My post sure as hell didn’t go “there”. Totally different perspective. If folks at least attempt to play nice then it doesn’t have to be one of THOSE days.

    • LMNOP

      you know, I thought that was a really moving, thoughtful and uncontroversial post about a subject that is really hard to talk about.

  • Think2Inspire

    TW( twigger warning): This video made me cringe. Basically, it is a leaked video of the night that changed all the kids lives. You can hear the main guy saying “Trent and Malik raped someone” There is one guy in the background expressing that he thinks what happened is wrong. He asks his friend “What if that was your daughter?” Response, “but its not”

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=22UsHZXPi7Q&feature=player_embedded&bpctr=1363669931

    • Marshal

      This video is sickening, and as a Father I’m lightweight in a place that I would Kill any arsehole that wouleever Think about doing something like this to my Daughter. Like I said before, my youngest brother played this high school during their football season, and that whole town is full of shyte.

      I’m sorry, I can’t watch anything past the 5minute mark, I’m too pissed off and heated after that

    • nillalatte

      Disgusting. Something obviously is wrong with this bunch. smdh… They deserve what they received.

      • Dignan

        There are at least 100 bunches just like this one all over America. Too much privilege for kids with too much testosterone. This is just the group that got caught.

        Life gets really friggin’ ugly sometimes.

    • au napptural

      It’s so sad the question wasn’t even “she’s a human being, what about that?”, instead of “what if it was your daughter.” This is what I was saying on Panama’s article on how his daughter changed him. So many men won’t accept and understand women are humans until they have a non-sexual relationship with a fragile girl, aka have a daughter.

      Cheers to that verdict though. To be honest, I’m sorry the sentence isn’t longer and I’m really sad those dudes aren’t going to prison where they belong and would get ALLLLLL they deserve. Oh, well. They got some of what they deserve and I hope and pray the other people involved get some kind of comeuppance.

      • jay totha dee

        @ au napptural

        Real question, you would prefer the boys to go to jail and “get ALLLLLL they deserve”? You want the rapists to become rape victims themselves?

        • au napptural

          Woow, you read way too much into that. Nobody was talking about prison rape. But I would have preferred for them to be tried as adults and sentenced as such. You wanna play like you grown, get tried like a grown man. Now in a year or so, they will skip happily along-after going to kiddie jail. I wish they had gone to prison, where they could really feel the incarceration. Meanwhile the vic’s life is totally screwed up. She may have to move, surely is suffering public humiliation, and in general has had her life thrown off track.

          • jay totha dee

            I should have asked for clarification before I made an assumption. My apologies. Thanks for clearing things up. With that said, I don’t know if incarceration in an adult prison would really do anything for the boys besides maybe make them vow not to ever go back to prison. Changing their behavior and the way they think is what’s most important and I’m not sure how that actually happens.

    • http://verysmartbrothas.com Panama Jackson

      They played that on CNN yesterday. I was in a room full of about 100 or so people. I’ve never heard such collective gasp and disgust before.

    • http://dominicanabanana.wordpress.com Asiyah

      “He asks his friend “What if that was your daughter?” Response, “but its not”

      No words…just emotions…

      • Sweet GA Brown

        Nothing but pure ignorance and arrogance as stated yesterday. It makes me sad to know that these are the years that these teenage boys and girls are shaping to become who they will be for the rest of their lives and this is how they view what happened in front of their eyes. I dont have children but I now understand why ppl say they dont know what kind of world their small children will live in when they come of age. No on wants to have children and subject them to these types of views from their peers.

    • AnGe

      They really thought it was funny. I think a few of them didn’t know how to cope and the main guy cracking those jokes is just disgusting and weird. He was being avoidant the whole time. He sounded like he was using really awful jokes to get around the seriousness of the issue.

      Its creepy how they were joking about the video being released and what the two rapists would do if they were accused of rape.

      I’m happy that video is in circulation. Hopefully no one finds it funny anymore.

  • Rewind

    I’ve dated girls who were raped. I’ve befriended girls who were raped. I’ve had intimiate conversations with women reliving the horrible memories of their past in order to endure the present.

    All I can say is as a man, I will never understand, because I will never be in a position that makes me so submissive that no matter how far I come, I can be knocked down to bottom so quickly (going to prison is the only way I think a man can know how it feels). That’s what men can’t understand about the frail standings of a woman…why WE NEED TO DO BETTER for their sake.

    • The Other Jerome

      Truth dot com!!!

    • http://www.iamyourpeople.com I Am Your People

      “I’ve had intimate conversations with women reliving the horrible memories of their past in order to endure the present.”

      Melissa Harris-Perry’s column completely broke my heart when she wrote about her rape. Her husband can’t even do any cute sexygestures since her mind goes into s’he’s being attacked’ mode. Heartbreaking

      • Todd

        Um…so why did MHP get married? I’m not necessarily blaming her, but if you have issues with intimacy on that level, there are plenty of therapists that’ll help ya work that out before you walk down the aisle.

        • Wild Cougar

          You are blaming her

          • Marshal

            Tood asked a Question, not Shamed MHP. Get Over Yourself or some Common Sense and realize that Emotions AND Logic can be used when discussing topics like this

          • Todd

            Yeah…I’ll answer this tomorrow. Catch you then Dub-C.

            • Marshal

              I wouldn’t let her off so easy, ther are More thant 1 way to Solve Issues, and letting this false accuastion go will only set up a Bad Reputation for you Outside the People that Know your Character, though I’m sure you already Know this…

              • Rewind

                Or you just ignore and move on like Todd did since arguing never changed much around here.

                • Ms. Bridget

                  +1

          • Wild Cougar

            You all react so hard. And you are way too obsessed with me. My comment is my opinion. I think he was blaming her for getting married. Period.

        • Ms. Bridget

          They got married because they wanted to. It seems that was not a deal breaker for her husband. That they can “work with/through” her attack and resulting intimacy issues. And who’s to say they aren’t working with a therapist?

          • Todd

            I’ll put it to you like this Bridget, then I really need to run. My wife eventually came to me with those self-same issues. If I’d know then what I knew now, I would have been a lot slower to jump that broom, and therapy would have been mandatory. I’ve seen how that movie ends, and it usually results in a lot of pain unless a lot of work is put in from the get-go.

            • Ms. Bridget

              I see, and agree. Therapy should definitely be mandatory. You know how YOUR movie ends, and different people have different stories. Many people are able to work through these issues (with help). I wonder how MHPs marriage is today…

              • Rewind

                Agreed. Todd, you’ve had your story but put others in the same boat, and it might go to a totally seperate ending. There’s no telling what a situation will be like just because the foundation looks similiar to something else.

                But I hope they get their lives on track for a better tomorrow.

        • au napptural

          Why did she get married? Maybe b/c she was in love with her husband. Maybe he asked to marry her b/c it isn’t all about sex and he loved her. Honestly, people need to grow the hell up. Todd, no shade, but a lot of people around here wouldn’t consider you the marriage guru. I mean, you met your wife at an orgy and constantly complain she’s unbalanced- who knew?! Now see how that was somewhat inappropriate? That’s what you did.

          • Rewind

            Granted you have a point, but his question was meritted.

            If someone has deeply rooted intimacy issues, it begs the question how much intimacy was never inacted to actually have marriage come into play. Clearly we don’t have all the details, but what is wrong with generally asking, what else besides love and sex is needed to have marriage come into play, when that’s all we are usually told is necessary?

            • au napptural

              She has issues with physical intimacy. That doesn’t say anything about emotional intimacy. For her to even tell her husband shows enormous trust and a feeling of safety. And for him to continue to court her and eventual propose shows the other aspects of the relationship are fine. I’m sure he didn’t pity-marry her.

              • Rewind

                I call bullshyt. There are still emotional problems she has to deal with. Physical is just one aspect, but emotional is forever.

                Kudos to her for working through the mess enough to let a man in her life and guide him to her heart, but that was an obstacle course, and it is not over yet.

            • Todd

              Exactly my point. I don’t pretend to be a saint for obvious reasons, but I can still ask questions. I do hope their marriage is going well though.

            • Todd

              Exactly my point. I don’t pretend to be a saint for obvious reasons, but I can still ask questions. I do hope their marriage is going well though.

          • http://verysmartbrothas.com Panama Jackson

            Yeah, I’m inclined to agree. I don’t know that you can shoot the messenger over a legit question. The answer could simply be what so many have stated. For her husband it was still something he wanted to do and what seh wanted to do and they are likely working through those issues, together. Something that many of us could learn a thing or two about, myself included.

        • LMNOP

          I don’t think this is a bad thing to say. I am single because I have all kinds of issues with intimacy from being raped, and I honestly am really curious to hear about how other people manage to deal with that kind of stuff. No one really talks about this, but I KNOW I’m not the only one who wants to know.

          • Rewind

            And there we have it.

            • mena

              +1

    • Think2Inspire

      My bf asked about my sex life and why I never said sh*t. After almost six weeks of not saying anything I wrote him a letter and gave it to him when I was leaving his house. The next time he saw me I felt as small as a fly because he looked pained by knowing those things. One thing people don’t talk about is what to do after a rape. When you admit that to someone you love the questions are now “Can this person love still love me knowing that about my past?” and for the dude “How do I avoid doing anything the previous guy did?”

      • Keisha

        Sorry to hear you experienced something like that. You’re right…we don’t talk about what to do after a rape. We don’t talk about a lot of things…and that is a problem. Other than listen, I wouldn’t know what to say/do myself. If you don’t mind me asking, what helped you? What would you say to someone else that had experienced something similar?

      • Rewind

        I can understand that because of how I felt after my own situation. Who do you talk to? What do you say? Will you be angry if they respond? Will you be sad? I get some of the emotions that come through one’s mind and why we would wait years until we finally say something.

        But as I’ve learned myself, the longer you hold the pain inside and never let it go, the more harmful you are to others around you. You make them pay for a crime they never committed because you’re too scared to look the pain in the eye. That’s how THEY WIN. The people who hurt us could careless, yet we consistently give them a gold medal for excellence everyday that we don’t try to deal with the pain.

      • http://verysmartbrothas.com Panama Jackson

        Yeah, and I think that’s largely my main point. What happens after you know. Like that girls life is changed forever. What happens when she does open up to others.

        Just curious about it all.

      • LMNOP

        I think about these kinds of things too, honestly, but to see someone else say it is so sad. Someone who loves you will still love you after they know that. Yes, it will be hard for them to deal with, but they won’t think any less of you.

  • Sula Mae Peace

    I grew up with nothing but brothers and they too have never asked me whether or not I have been sexually assaulted. I think they are also afraid of what will happen if I actually said yes (it’s never happened btw).

    But I think if more brothers, uncles, fathers, and guy cousins asked this question we might be able to have a powerful conversation about sexual assault in the black community.

    This was a really good post.

    • http://verysmartbrothas.com Panama Jackson

      You’re right. We probably would. But how does one even broach that topic. I’m assuming my sisters haven’t b/c they’ve never show any emo scars and all seem to have very good dealings and relationships with men. I’d assume that wouldn’t be the case if something ever did happen.

  • http://www.iamyourpeople.com I Am Your People

    Sad but important

    “How Slut Shaming Becomes Victim Blaming” by http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1l3h8fzv-BM @chescaleigh

  • The Other Jerome

    Awesome post. I have sisters as well and i have never asked them about this. I’ve always assumed they’re fine. Yet, statistically speaking……….. it’s too horrible to think about.

    As men when we’re in the presence of other men, without the other gender around, inappropriate comments and actions get tossed into the convo like it’s ok. But it’s not ok. We have to speak up. Speak up when someone makes a comment. Nip that type of thinking in the bud. This could apply to race comments, sex comments, violent comments.

    We have to speak up

    One of those little bastards cried in court that “His life was over”. Naw dude. You’ll do your year in Juvi, then walk. Two years after that no one will remember your name and your life will go on.

    That poor girl however, she’ll never forget what happened. She’ll have nightmares and f@cked up relationships and therapy for d@mn near the rest of her life.

    If we as a society were taught to speak up when we see injustice, this wouldn’t have happened. And we can start by speaking up during our “harmless” interpersonal conversations.

    Chauvinistic behavior, bigoted behavior, violent behavior, cant be glossed over because it’s just “guys shooting the breeze”.

    Seriously

    • Rewind

      I think it goes beyond guys shooting the breeze.

      I think the parents suck. Seriously suck. Like, I get that how some boys grown to be men who are truly chauvinistic depending on their interactions with their mother. But it goes beyond that. These kids are a byproduct of a huge technological revolution within the last 20 years. Parents keep missing the mark on this problem, and their kids are eclipising them when it comes to intelligence and accepting change. It’s so bad, that the kids of today have no idea what is truly going on around them, so their ability for empathy is rock bottom. It’s all a game to them, and adults keep endorsing that notion.

      I got a sister. When I found out what happened to her, I wanted to find this guy and murder him. But she talked me out of it. She moved on with her life and has done things I wouldn’t be able to achieve myself. I am proud of her, but moreso proud that she decided she wouldn’t let that incident define her, even if she has to live with the repurcussions everyday. But she had a mother she could talk to, an internet connection to research, and an attitude that helped her ask the right questions. Clearly many people aren’t that lucky, but that doesn’t mean the same outcome can’t be had for them.

      • http://verysmartbrothas.com Panama Jackson

        Real talk.

      • Marshal

        +1000%

      • http://dominicanabanana.wordpress.com Asiyah

        Not only is empathy at an all-time low, Rewind, but so is self-awareness. It dawned on me today that part of the reason why we live in a rape culture is because our culture lacks self-awareness. Plenty of people see rape as a foreign thing, something the “other” does. You think of rape as something that happens to young girls in Darfur, Congo, India, Colombia, or Mexico, you know, something THEY do. That’s not what WE do. So many people in our in-group have an incomplete definition of what rape is. We don’t think that’s what we do, and that’s a problem. So busy pointing the dirt on other people’s faces when our fingers are dirty and yet we don’t even know we’re filthy.

        • Rewind

          I get you Asiyah…but I disagree. I think we do view rape in this country as “other”. When we say rape in other countries, we think of violence, like a rebel camp taking over a village and raping all the women. But here, when we say rape, it’s almost trivialized.

          Think about it. Law & Order SVU has a new rape case EVERY SINGLE EPISODE, and on USA, you can catch friggin marathons of that shyte. I can only assume you’ll be desensitized after a while from the TV show, let alone the news. On top of that, unlike other places, the USA has MASTERED slut shaming. It’s to the point where you have to question everything if anyone says they are raped, especially a woman, because no one wants to believe rapes JUST HAPPEN.

          • http://dominicanabanana.wordpress.com Asiyah

            The reason why we trivialize rape in this society is because we see it as something done by the “other.” Even within our own culture there are subcultures and when horrible acts like rape are brought up, one subculture attributes it to another. This is why it is trivialized. The more we tend to perceive it as something “we” don’t do, the less likely we are to acknowledge that it is a universal problem and the less likely we are to stop the cycle.

            And I’ve engaged in my fair share of SVU marathons. I don’t know if it desensitizes you to rape, but it does make you think that the bad guys are always caught. And that’s obviously a HUGE misconception. That can lead to the Bystander Effect.

            • Rewind

              True indeed.

    • Royale W. Cheese

      “One of those little bastards cried in court that “His life was over”. ”

      Good. Folks need to make this happen. Make sure he never gets a date, has a girlfriend, or is allowed near any little girls.

      • http://dominicanabanana.wordpress.com Asiyah

        Yup. His life is definitely going to change.

      • jay totha dee

        @ Royale W. Cheese

        When people commit heinous crimes, such as rape or murder, should they forever be tied and bound to that crime? Are they incapable of doing anything constructive with their lives after the crime is committed? Are they incapable of improvement or repentance? Are they just forever a rapist/murderer?

        • AfroPetite

          Good point.

          It shouldn’t have to follow him around for life but he is forever linked as a rapist in the eyes of many. OJ Simpson was a great football player but no one ever speaks on that when referencing him *shrug*

          It’s not fair, but unless he cures the common cold I don’t see society being very receptive of him after all this.

    • http://dominicanabanana.wordpress.com Asiyah

      I actually do feel that his life will change as well. Do I pity him? No. Did he mean that his life will change in that he’s going to have a guilty conscience for the rest of his life? Doubt it. I’m sure he meant his chances at football greatness are over. But you never know if as an adult it will truly hit him: “shiiii, I raped someone.”

  • http://fourpageletter.wordpress.com keisha brown

    i appreciate this post being written, but am currently not in the emotional space to handle what is SURE to happen in the comments.

    i will say this – at some point, we need to educate everyone on what is and what isn’t ok. girls and boys both need to know that this is wrong. the fact that so many people (students and adults alike) think that this was short of anything but a violation is so disheartening.

    90% of sexual assaults are not reported. this case shows exactly why.

    • http://obsidianraw.bravejournal.com Obsidian

      @Ms. Keisha Brown:
      I find this a rather odd statement, coming from a Canadian citizen and a female one at that; my understanding is that the rate of rape there is a mere sliver of what it is in the United States – in no small part due to the relative decriminalization of prostitution there when compared to the States. Studies continue to show that where widespread pron and prostitution flourishes in availability, crimes of sexual violence (and violence in general, i.e., against other Men) go down. Way, way down.

      More on this below. You’ll like!

      O.

      • Camilleblu

        O…..not sure why where KB lives makes any difference with her stance on rape. I’m thinking that it doesn’t matter if Canada had 1 rape per decade, it’s still a vile, disgusting, demoralizing act – which is basically what she said – and that she just isn’t emotionally ready to deal with what are likely to be some ignorant comments made today. If I misinterpreted your point, please forgive me.

        • LMNOP

          plus even if it is “a sliver” of the incidence of rape in the US (which may or may not be true) something like one in four women in the US will be raped in their lives. 1 in 10 would be a fraction of that, but not at all inconsequential, especially for that 10% who is raped.

          • http://obsidianraw.bravejournal.com Obsidian

            The 1 in 4 stat that opportunists like Ms. Zelina Maxwell and others peddle is a LIE. Please see my commentary below for the truth about rape rates and have they have massively declined to a mere shadow of their former selves in the USA in less than half of a century.

            O.

        • http://obsidianraw.bravejournal.com Obsidian

          @Ms. CamilleBlue:
          “O…..not sure why where KB lives makes any difference with her stance on rape.”

          O; Because she, more than anyone, should know the facts of the rate of rape in her country, and the measures that have been taken to curtail it – which yes, includes the fullscale decriminalization of prostitution. This is hugely important.

          “I’m thinking that it doesn’t matter if Canada had 1 rape per decade, it’s still a vile, disgusting, demoralizing act – which is basically what she said – and that she just isn’t emotionally ready to deal with what are likely to be some ignorant comments made today. If I misinterpreted your point, please forgive me.”

          O: No offence taken. And of course rape is all the things you said; no one has attempted to suggest othewise, least of all, me.

          But the point is made: Canada has a rate of rape that is a sliver of what it is in the States, despite massive declines over the past half century, and could be even lower, IF we were to fully decriminalize prostitution. That we refuse to do so, says a heck of a lot more about the motivations, ideology and psychology of those who fancy themselves reformers, than it ever will about those like myself who truly do wish to put the facts out there…

          O.

          • Camille blu

            Hmmm…..still doesn’t address why you were surprised at KB’s view on rape. As far as legalizing prostitution, rape isn’t about sex, its about power and control. Prostitutes – legal or not- get raped every single day. I don’t think you can peg legal prostitution as the major source of a lower rate of sexual assaults. US is a more violent country than Canada overall, so there is a lot more involved than just prostitution.

          • Camille blu

            Hmmm…..still doesn’t address why you were surprised at KB’s view on rape. As far as legalizing prostitution, rape isn’t about sex, its about power and control. Prostitutes – legal or not- get raped every single day. I don’t think you can peg legal prostitution as the major source of a lower rate of sexual assaults. US is a more violent country than Canada overall, so there is a lot more involved than just prostitution.

      • Rewind

        What KB is saying is, she knows people are going to come on the comments section, make some real bytch-ass comments, and start a shyte storm, which is not necessary because this topic is way too important and delicate for people to act in that manner.

        • http://fourpageletter.wordpress.com keisha brown

          ^^ exactly. im currently the target of being cyberbullied so not interested in a day of hate on vsb.

          • http://obsidianraw.bravejournal.com Obsidian

            I am curious who is cyber bullying you – is it anyone here at VSB, or is this elsewhere?

            O.

          • mena

            Is it by someone who was kicked off of this site?

            • http://fourpageletter.wordpress.com keisha brown

              yes. over on my blog and via twitter.
              yes, someone who was banned here.

              • mena

                Dude, I am sorry. Keep writing. Seriously, if you stop writing or stop posting what you feel in your heart you need to post, then he has won.

              • LMNOP

                who bullies someone with a new baby?? and shiny lips?

                That is crazy.

              • Camilleblu

                I saw that KB….can you ban him? He is a sociopath.

                • http://fourpageletter.wordpress.com keisha brown

                  can only ban from post comments publically. i still see them as admin and he can still read the post.

                  • Kaname

                    What about banning the ip address? That usually works.

      • http://verysmartbrothas.com Panama Jackson

        I too am curious as to why somebody who lives in Canada can’t still think that sliver of rape that occurs is too much. I mean, isn’t one rape one too many?

        • http://obsidianraw.bravejournal.com Obsidian

          Because their doing so contributes to the ongoing LIES about the prevelance of rape instead of spreading the truth, that rape has and continues to go down, in both the USA and Canada – and if the USA had adopted full decriminalization against prostitution policies like Canada has done, the current rape rate, which is at all time lows in the USA, declining at a rate of EIGHTY PERCENT since 1970, would be even lower; indeed, a feasability study conducted along these lines projects a further decline of rates by 25,000, were prostitution decriminalized in the USA.

          O.

          • mena

            I’m not understanding your point. Are you saying we shouldn’t care at all or that we should care as much?

      • http://fourpageletter.wordpress.com keisha brown

        wait what???
        your understanding of rape is skewed based on your gender and your geography.
        so let me educate you.

        canada isn’t a small village. it’s a 1st world country with the same issues as the US, just on a smaller scale due to our smaller population.
        trust me, sexual assaults happen. all the time. i can say that as a female, a canadian and a person who has studied criminology/soc/psychology AND volunteered for a rape crisis line.

        please see canadian resources for further information
        http://www.fraserhealth.ca/your_health/sexual_health/sexual_assault/statistics

        http://sexualityandu.ca/uploads/files/SexualAssault-OCT2011-ENG.pdf

        http://www.torontopolice.on.ca/sexcrimes/sas/statistics.php

        http://www.ottawacitizen.com/life/Statistics+sexual+assault+Canada/7966915/story.html

        http://www.wavaw.ca/mythbusting/statistics/

        while the stats vary slightly (based on when they were taken), the general idea is the same.

        so your comment at me makes no sense.

        • http://obsidianraw.bravejournal.com Obsidian

          Actually, Ms. Brown, they do. Let’s count the ways, shall we?

          Prostitution is decriminalized in Canada; it is not in the USA. True or false?

          The rate of rape in Canada, even when adjusting for the relative populations there to the USA, is vastly lower than in the USA. True, or false?

          Studies consistently show that wherever in the Western world there is widespread availability of prostitution and pron, sexual crimes against Women go down. Mind you, I am talking about the West – Canada, parts of the Eurozone, et al. We are NOT talking about places like Kenya, Thailand or even Brazil, though the latter makes for an interesting discussion in itself.

          Your response?

          O.

          • Keisha Brown

            My reply that the legal stance on prostitution is irrelevant to this blog post. What does that have to do with the price of tea in China?

            That comparing a country with the same population of California is also irrelevant.

            The rates of occurance, reporting and stats on the victims (women, in dating situation etc) are comparable even if the actual number is not.

            The bottom line is that the culture of sexual assaults are the same in both countries despite our decrimilization of sex workers. If this same thing happened at Degrassi (yes a real school here in Toronto), victim blaming would still happen. We don’t do football in the same way, but if it was hockey players? I could see it happening.

        • LMNOP

          “canada isn’t a small village. it’s a 1st world country with the same issues as the US”

          LOL

          I got to say this whole “what do you know about rape? you’re candian.” thing is one of the most bizarre comments I’ve come across.

          • http://fourpageletter.wordpress.com keisha brown

            right??
            LOLLL

  • nillalatte

    I will agree that a woman knows she shouldn’t put herself ‘willingly’ in a position that she could potentially be raped. Now, hear me out.

    We women know that there are bad people in the world. No, men shouldn’t rape women. But, history tells us through the ages that men, some men, act in this barbaric manner. Therefore, we must protect ourselves in the best possible way by avoiding certain behaviors, places, and people. That is just the way it is. We can recognize that and take precautions or we can take our chances.

    There were PLENTY of times when I was younger that I would be in places and around people I probably had no business. One thing I never did, however, was get so shyt faced that I didn’t have my good senses.

    Women should teach their daughters to carry themselves in a respectful manner and avoid high risk situations because we know there is always a potential to be sexually assaulted. Period. A lot of times, men are teaching their sons male behavior that could be a double edge sword, but we hope the lesson is consent is required. A woman/mother, too, has the responsibility to teach their son/s moral codes to not violate other women.

    Of course, we all know or should know that rape itself isn’t about the sex. It’s about power, control and ego.

    • Sigma_Since 93

      Just like we have the lesson for what to do when stopped by the cops, parents need to have the same what to do / not to do when at a party discussion.

      • AfroPetite

        Problem is, I bet half of these parents don’t know about these parties and the massive amounts of sex their teens are having at said parties (consensual or otherwise)

        • Sigma_Since 93

          We know about the parties, we just don’t know when they are happening. Things that happen at some of these parties haven’t changed from when we were young. I’ve told my son:

          You shouldn’t be drinking….period
          Don’t take a drink, cup offered to you from anyone.
          Buzzed girls, hammered girls leave them alone.

    • http://www.twitter.com/Bmorebmw Tentpole

      If only more women thought like you.

    • Rewind

      I agree with all of this, and yet somehow, there are a portion of women out that would violently disagree. That’s what I will never understand.

      Life is two-fold. My actions and the actions of the world…that’s how my life works. That’s how your life works. Anyone’s life. So if we don’t take responsibility for our part, how can we seriously expect 8 billion other people to take responsibility for theirs?

      • au napptural

        The problem, in response to Rewind, is in the rape situation we don’t get “the other side.” Please listen, like you did to nillalatte. We’ve had 50 years or more of telling women not to walk in dark alleys, or drink too much, or go out alone. If that worked 100% of the time I don’t think a woman in the world would not do those things. The problem is THEY DON’T WORK. When I say they don’t work, I mean they will not prevent rape. The majority of rapes are not the “rape of opportunity” and stranger in the bushes. The majority are men you know feeling entitled to your body. What is the point of “being good” if I can get raped sitting in my own house? The onus has be almost entirely on women for too long.

        That’s what this case brings up. Everyone is like well if she hadn’t have drunk so much. Here’s the plain truth- if that girl hadn’t drunk a drop, it is more likely she wouldn’t have been raped (I’m unsure about if she was drugged or not, but go with me). Maybe 90% more likely. But those boys would still be rapists. B/c if their hearts they didn’t give a damn about her, just saw she was vunerable and pounced. So when you say women should not do x,y, and z, you are saying that basically as long as a woman is never vunerable she won’t find out who the rapists are. And I agree to a certain extent. But vulnerable is relative. I was vulnerable when I was 7. Luckily, I didn’t meet any rapists. Everyone wasn’t so lucky. But I’ll be vulnerable again later tonight when I go to sleep. Will I be lucky again? Will I be lucky every day for the rest of my life, even if I wear a burka to the floor and never leave my apartment? Maybe not.

        • Marshal

          I agree wit all of this, yet isn’t 10% better than 90% or 100%?? Gun Violence has gone down overall in the nation, but Chicago has ridiculously high murder rates; the Economy is showing good signs but milions are still Poor and hav No Jobs; Abortions are down but Single Parent homes are still a Norm- Does the Successes and Decreases “not Count” since there are Still Problems??? That’s all MANY People- Men and Women-are Saying and Telling People. That’s Not Victim Shaming or even Women Blaming.

          Last Week the NYC ads for Stopping Teen Pregnancy had tons of hoopla, yet what was Said IN the ads are what people save Casually All.The.Time. There were also ads directed Towards Teen Boys, which goes for the decades of Wrap it Up ads, and BET/MTV Rap it Up commercials, Sex Ed, and etc, but guess what- Teens STILL have Sex, and people in general STILL have PRemarital Sex, many Without Condoms and Birth Control. Do we then Stop Educating and advertizing Condoms and Birth Control because people Ignore or Disregard ALL the PSAs, Advice and Warnings????

          • au napptural

            The problem is this isn’t a zero-sum game. If we teach men how not to rape, it doesn’t mean all women start whopping it up and running around the street naked. It just means, hey focusing on women EXCLUSIVELY hasn’t worked. Let’s try talking to everyone, since everyone is affected by rape.

          • au napptural

            And I meant rape was 90% less likely in this girl’s case, this one event if she did not drink. But she might not drink tomorrow and meet Ted Bundy. If someone’s father is a rapist, they are SOL. No matter what they wear, drink, say, or do. Circumstances are a very small part of rape.

            Some people simply have worse luck than others. This is what I’m saying. You can do everything “right” and it won’t matter. So people should stop focusing so much on women’s preventative actions. I’ve done a ton of stuff “wrong” and I’ve never been assaulted, raped, anything. Some 60 year old grandmothers have done everything right and were raped. Coma victims get raped every day. And women in nursing homes. They’re too sexy, right? It isn’t about sex. Most important of all, rape is not a punishment. Not a punishment for drinking, under-aged or otherwise, and not a punishment for dressing “slutty” or anything else.

            • nillalatte

              “So people should stop focusing so much on women’s preventative actions.”

              I disagree with this statement. It is imperative that women take responsibility for prevention because no one else is going to do that, but you. As with most of societies ills, I do not think rape will ever cease to exist. Deviant people will ALWAYS exist. Therefore, women must protect themselves as much as possible regardless if a boy/man is taught he shouldn’t force non-consensual sex.

        • Rewind

          Au, my comment wasn’t saying that women need to do things to not get raped.

          All I was saying is that we all have a responsibiity for our lives. Our lives are not 100% in our control, which is clearly showcased if we speak about rape. however, to understand why rape occurs means we must discuss how people view their lives and how their actions influence things around them.

          It’s quite clear that a woman can get raped for just wearing a blue shirt, just like a young boy can be sexually molested for having blue eyes. However, it does not hurt to understand or try to investigate WHY THE PEOPLE WHO HURT OTHERS do not feel they have to care about responsibility or consequences like everyone else does.

          • Marshal

            I know that’s what you meant, Rewind, but Most just aren’t trying to hear this- Ever apparently

        • nillalatte

          I hear your argument. And, you have valid points. But, consider this… bait cars. Cops use bait cars to entice people to steal them because they believe that they would do it anyway if given the chance. That is the same argument you are making in my opinion, right? Well, if a guy is a rapist, a woman shouldn’t provide the opportunity i.e. bait. On the other hand, there are good men out there that wouldn’t dare take advantage of a woman who wasn’t coherent. Not that they didn’t think about it, but because they have a good moral value.

          You are right too about being raped most likely by someone with whom you may already have a relationship. Those cases rarely are tried in court because it is difficult to prove that consent was not given. It literally comes down to a he said, she said scenario.

          HOWEVER, the more idiots like these kids video their actions, the more likely it is to prove their illegal actions. On one hand, I tell kids, stop and think before you video shyt and then throw it up on the net. On the other, I say, please dumb arse, put that shyt on the net so yo’ arse goes to jail.

          • Kopa

            In Vancouver, a public campaign aimed at men to prevent rape (“don’t be that guy”, “passing out is not consent”, etc.) helped decrease the city’s rape cases by 10%. If we educate our daughter, we can reduce rape rates by probably the same 10%. But if we educate our sons… if we educate ALL our sons?

            If we realize it’s not just the deviants who do it, some of the so-called normal guys do it too, because they think if a girl is passed out she won’t mind or even remember. These are the guys we need tor each, to tell them from an early age how horrible it is to do that to anyone without consent. That’s a sure way to get rape counts down. Dressing in a burkha is not.

    • http://verysmartbrothas.com Panama Jackson

      I have to wonder how many women are raped due to complete and total inebriation. I don’t have stats but like is always stated if most rapes and sexual assaults occur at the hands of somebody you know, well, doesn’t that mean that controlling as much of your environment as possible and the circumstances therein likely won’t eliminate it anyway? Sure you may decrease your chances, but we’ve all learned that a person who is going to do something is going to do it regardless. Reducing the opportunity you present for somebody to disrespect you sometimes just entices that other individual to either work that much harder to do it, or to disrespect you that much more for making it harder for them.

      • Marshal

        I’m sure you or Champ covered this in the previous articles about Rape, and we all know what happened with that……… Sometimes people are so set in their ways of Mindset that it’s Hopeless to try and say the Same Message a Different way- they will Still deem what you just said here as Sexist, Victim Shaming and etc.

      • camilleblue

        dead on. we all absolutely need to be responsible in our actions, but considering the fact that most rapes are not committed by strangers, i.e. date rape, acquaintance rape, women being “responsible” only goes so far.

      • http://fourpageletter.wordpress.com keisha brown

        hey peej, i posted some links to stats (canadian) on my reply to Obs above.

        MOST sexual assaults (note i never use the word rape), are on ‘dates’, alcohol is not usually a factor.

      • nillalatte

        PJ… Actually, most crimes be it rape, assault, battery, burglary ALL occur mostly by known assailants. Yes, I am aware. I’m talking specifically about this case. Here we have what is referred to as hearsay. We’re basing our arguments and opinions on what others have told us without clear first party information.

        I’ll make it personal. If this was my daughter, I would be highly enraged that she was violated in a state that she shouldn’t have been in the IN THE FIRST PLACE. Does the fact that she got shyt faced exclude the behavior of another who raped her in that state? No. But, do I think it MAY never have happened if she hadn’t opened herself up to that by not having a coherent mind in a bad situation. Yes.

        This is pretty f’n primal. Animals pick on and kill the weakest in the wild. Humans, unfortunately, are no different. So, why be the bait if you CAN control it? If you can’t, that is a whole different scenario.

        • LMNOP

          “Animals pick on and kill the weakest in the wild. Humans, unfortunately, are no different.”

          I used to think this, but now I don’t.

          Some people will kick a person who is down. Others will try to help that person up.

    • http://inanimatethoughts.blogspot.com/ Animate

      No no no. I’m all for telling people to be more responsible but you are going off of the idea that they have control of a situation that they don’t.

      So she drank 1 shot instead of 5, a rapist wants to rape.
      So she took the well let path home instead of the not so well lit, a rapist wants to rape.

      A large portion of rapes are done by people that the victim knows. That boyfriend of a year, that good friend of several years that is like a brother. The idea that you can “prevent” rape by no putting yourself in certain situation is not a good one. It takes the blame off of the person that did the crime and goes to the victim with “well if she didn’t dress that way” or “well if she wouldn’t have been alone”. How she dresses, whether she is in a group or not, and other random things don’t take away from the fact that she did not consent to this assault.

      • Rewind

        yup.

      • http://dominicanabanana.wordpress.com Asiyah

        exactly, Animate.

      • nillalatte

        “The idea that you can “prevent” rape by no putting yourself in certain situation is not a good one. It takes the blame off of the person that did the crime and goes to the victim”

        It is a very good one, dear. Teaching risk management works! The party that rapes is obviously responsible for the action they choose. In most cases, both parties have to take responsibility for their own actions. You will never drive out deviant behavior if a person is truly deviant. Knowing that, one must practice self preservation.

        • LMNOP

          risk management is not prevention.

          Trying to avoid risky situations is great, but women can’t *prevent* being raped.

          And some of those risky situations are things like being married.

        • Full of Feist

          wearing a seatbelt is risk management. It still won’t prevent a person from being killed in a car accident.

          Similarly, avoiding alcohol will not necessarily prevent a person from being raped. Not to mention, I thought I heard that her “friends” spiked her drink anyway, which is why she was passed out.

          So, here, she didn’t consent to all of the the alcohol and she didn’t consent to a rape. Even if she was sober, since the rape allegedly involved members of the football team taking her from house to house, alcohol avoidance would do little in preventing what was discussed as a possible “gang rape.”

    • Royale W. Cheese

      Thank you. I have been assaulted before I was even old enough to drink, and I STILL agree that teaching defensive behavior is something that *should not be omitted* from the convo, or killed by the “yeah but…” dismissal. I have also been in a situation where I was able to fend off a drunk guy because I decided to stay sober. If we really want to fight this thing we need to address all sides instead of opting for one approach or just one side’s accountability as opposed to another’s. That is my word…and before anyone starts some ish with me, don’t even try me today, because my ad homonym gun is fully loaded with “f*** off” bullets and I’m not afraid to use them.

      • nillalatte

        :)

    • LMNOP

      There are many reasons it is not advisable to get this drunk. I mean you can die from overconsumption of alcohol.

      That said, in this situation we are talking about a 16 year old CHILD who likely did not have much experience with/ exposure to drinking responsibly.

      We should teach kids not to drink like that. We should also teach kids what to do if another kid does (get them medical attention, NOT rape them).

    • SweetSass

      You as a woman… what ever you do… ‘act proper’ whatever that means… will not stop a rapist from being a rapist. You don’t have control over that.

      If they want to rape, they will rape. And they do. It’s the same guys over and over and over again. And most of them get away with it. And why, because we as a society have put the burden on women not to get raped. We keep pertuating myths that you can control whether or not you will be assaulted.

      It’s a pernicious lie.

      • http://dominicanabanana.wordpress.com Asiyah

        agreed.

      • nillalatte

        All I’m saying SweetSass is if I can help it, I’m not going to put myself in a situation to entice that behavior. Period.

        • Full of Feist

          But Nillalette, how would you know whether or not you were in the “situation to entice the behavior”?

          You would have to be psychic to know that a person whom you’re acquainted with has intentions to rape you.

          Even wives get raped by their husbands.

    • Kim

      OVER 70 PRECENT OF WOMEN ARE RAPED BY SOMEONE THAT THEY KNOW!!! THAT INCLUDES FATHERS, BROTHERS, UNCLES, BOYFRIENDS, HUSBANDS AND FRIENDS!!!! THIS SHOULD BE COMMON KNOWLEDGE BY NOW!

      • nillalatte

        I am aware. Again, if I can avoid a situation whereby I become a victim, then I should.

        • LMNOP

          I don’t get what you’re saying here.

          Do you avoid being alone with men you know?

          • Kaname

            You can’t and that’s what all this boils down to. As long as we live in the physical world the danger will be *ever* present. And that’s what trips people up because there is *no* way to protect yourself against that. We undertake all these preventive measures to make ourselves feel better that we have some control over *someone* else’s actions. It’s been said time and time again on this very blog that we can’t control what people do, only our reactions to it.

            • Marshal

              Okay, so Nilla gets this, Keisha gets this, Mena gets this, and a whole host of other gets this (even LMNOP in a strange way) so WHY are the VSS Feminist Talian so gun-ho on condeming All Men to Hell for situations where Both people have a 100% Choice in the Matter? Some Sick Folks are So Sick that there prbably is No Help for them, but we Don’t Know UNTIL something Tragic Happens (i.e. Adam Lanza and Cho Seung Hui, both Mentally Disturbed but still had the Free Will and Rights like everyone else, which meant that they Could Not be Forced to be Locked Away in an Insane Asylum)

              • Kaname

                I don’t know what a “VSS Feminist Talian” is so I’m not sure what you’re trying to say on that note. And are you actually saying that in a rape situation *both* people have 100% choice in the matter, or am I misunderstanding you on this? And as to the “all men” that you mentioned, it makes sense that a woman would most likely address the gender(in this case men) that statistics, parental instruction, and society had told her to be wary of as sources of harm.

              • LMNOP

                If someone is gung ho on condemning all men to hell, they are being sexist and ignorant.

                Why engage?

                That said, I didn’t understand this comment at all.

  • http://www.iamyourpeople.com I Am Your People

    Did you see that in domestic abuse cases, the NYPD now has to run background checks on the abuser and accuser? WTF?*

    *Okay, I know why. If you’re the police chief, you want to lower the crime rate. Domestic abuse will go way down, now amirite?

    • Rewind

      It sounds f*cked up, but there are a lot of fake domestic abuse calls and court cases lately. Plus, over the years, the city has been getting hammered with civil suits over false claims made by women against men.

      Remember this. When it comes to the government, it is always about protecting their asses first. Before anyone else.

      • Todd

        +1

      • au napptural

        A lot of real Stop and Frisk lawsuits but they are still doing that.

        • Rewind

          The lawsuits are still in effect. They haven’t lost enough money yet. Once they do, the rules will change.

    • http://verysmartbrothas.com Panama Jackson

      I have to say, and I intentionally chose not to mention this in the post so as to not obscure the point: I actually know two women who have lied about being raped. AS in they have both admitted to me that they have done that to men b/c they were in a situation they couldn’t get out of and it was either her or him.

      One is somebody I know from high school. In fact, when the sh*t hit the fan she called me first to tell me what she did and I couldn’t believe it b/c she let that rumor fly all over school that one of our friends had raped her. I was so dumbfounded. I couldn’t let that slide so I went on a whistleblower mission.

      The other was somebody that I don’t know well but apparently in a fit of loose lips amidst a group of friends talking about how messed up men can be, this chick actually says, “yeah, sometimes you have to check dudes. That’s why I called rape on one of my exes after he tried to get cute one day…”

      N*gga. When I say I couldn’t believe she was saying this out loud and proud of it.

      I’m glad the convo is leaning towards erring on the side of the accuser. But there is always that chance…there are some scandalous PEOPLE out there. That’s the lesson to learn. If something can go wrong, assume it will and get the hell on.

      • Marshal

        Glad you said this, PJ; the last time THIS angle was said the VSS Feminist Taliban came out and damn near labeled Every Guy on here a Sexist and against Women, as if False Accusations of Rape have Never Happened and Don’t Happen Regularily

        • Malik

          If .6% is A LOT then yes there are “a lot” of false rape accusations.

          http://www.balloon-juice.com/2013/03/17/women-dont-lie-about-rape-as-often-as-you-think-they-do/

          • http://inanimatethoughts.blogspot.com/ Animate

            Thanks for beating me to it. Yes there is an extremely small amount of people that lie about rape. Nowhere near enough for it to be the immediate thought when it s brought up.

          • Marshal

            There aren’t as much Unemployed People in the U.S. but African Americans are at 13%, while the other 83% Are…. Doesn’t change that 13% is High- For African Americans

            Seriously, the Dismissals and Not trying to look at All Sides and Solutions is what’s wrong with evn trying to Start a Real Conversation. .6% is Still a Problem, regardless of how You Two feel about it, and as someone who Was Falsely Accused myself-like many VSS who have been Raped Themselves or damn near Everyone who has Known or Dated someone who was Raped- having a Reputation of being some Monster where Nobody wanted to Deal with or been Seen with me, People who “Knew” me were ashamed and didn’t Believe in my Character, that needed to be castrated or locked away for something I Never Did is Foul as Hell and Fckued Up. We All have an investment in this topic. Being Open-Minded goes a hell of a long way

          • That Ugly Kid

            Yes, Malik, .6% IS a lot. Just like rape, ONCE is TOO MUCH. The fact that some of these men get lied on, sent to prison, and become ACTUAL rape victims, is f*cked up beyond belief.

            But I’m an igloo, though…

            • Malik

              I don’t understand the fixation or the idea that they deserve equal ground in the discussion of rape. Especially considering the IDEA of false rape accusations elicits far more sympathy than even they most violent rape scenarios imaginable.

              • au napptural

                Thank you, Malik. But too, Marshal, I didn’t get a chance to address this last rape conversation. How do you feel when people (rightly) steer the convo away from your false rape experience? B/c I’m sure the women who were raped feel similar or worse when this happens to them. Or when they are told what they could change…

              • That Ugly Kid

                Why SHOULDN’T it be held to the same grounds in the discussion of rape? Because not only does it put innocent people behind bars, it also makes it that much harder for victims of real rape to be taken seriously.

                Especially considering the IDEA of false rape accusations elicits far more sympathy than even they most violent rape scenarios imaginable.

                This is pure BULLSH*T. Wanna know how I know? Because every time the discussion of false rape accusations come up, people like you resort to posting up statistics of false rape accusations to show that since it doesn;t happen as often as rape, then it’s not an issue. Exhibit A, right here.

                • Malik

                  Right now. I’m not about using the very real experience of men getting raped in prison as a hypothetical attack on women discussing having been raped. Especially with the same people out here laughing and joking about dudes getting raped in the pen every other discussion. It’s disgusting, disingenuous and only exists to shift the conversation from the abuse victims of rape receive to get some rhetorical upper hand about a topic that you don’t really give 2 sh*ts about.

                  • That Ugly Kid

                    I’m not about using the very real experience of men getting raped in prison as a hypothetical attack on women discussing having been raped.

                    Except, no one’s doing this. No one’s using it as an attack. What people ARE doing, however, is being dismissive of that part of the discussion because they feel .06% isn’t high enough to warrant any sort of major attention. Because somehow talking about false rape accusations, something that does effect REAL rape victims, draws attention away from their abuse. It doesn’t. Stop it. In fact, it sheds MORE light and makes it much more easier to empathize with the poor victims who DON’T report what happened to them. Because they’re afraid no one will believe them. And false rape accusations do nothing but make it harder.

        • Sigma_Since 93

          VSS Feminist Taliban…Dang near spit out my tea.

          • http://fourpageletter.wordpress.com keisha brown

            yeah… thats kinda ignorant. but whatever.

            • au napptural

              +1,000,000,000

      • mena

        You know how there are people who cry foul and ruin it for those who actually are telling the truth…

        Trust and believe they will both get theirs. TRUST.

        I would have cursed both of those chicks out and you did the right thing by calling out the girl in your school. The other chick that was grown though… I couldn’t even allow people like that into my life. That’s that $hit that will get you in a really screwed up situation.

        • Royale W. Cheese

          +1

      • LMNOP

        Wow. that pisses me the fck off. Not only is that an evil thing to do to the men involved, it comes at the expense of the credibility of real rape victims. So it is like double evil.

      • Rewind

        I’ve been in a situation like that once. Luckily the truth came out before it got ugly…but yo…..I should be in jail for what I would have done.

        You can’t even make a measurement of how disrespectful it is for someone to falsely accuse you of any kind of sexual misconduct.

      • http://dominicanabanana.wordpress.com Asiyah

        “I actually know two women who have lied about being raped. AS in they have both admitted to me that they have done that to men b/c they were in a situation they couldn’t get out of and it was either her or him.”

        I know a girl who did this too. It almost ruined my friend’s life. Eventually she admitted it was consensual and that my friend didn’t force himself on her. Furthermore, they didn’t even have sex and the sexual act was her idea (and choice). We need to teach EVERYONE that rape is no laughing matter and it is not just a word you can throw around. People’s lives and well-beings are at stake.