Last weekend, after 14 straight days of listening to nothing but “My Beautiful Dark Twisted Fantasy” in my truck (I’ve listened to “Hell of a Life” so many times that my girl’s now convinced I’m going to leave her for Lauren N. Woods), I reached into my armrest and blindly pulled out a cd; not caring what the hell I picked as long as it was something different.
I landed on 88-Keys’s “The Death of Adam” , a concept album telling the story of a young man (“Adam”) and his dating difficulties. From courtship to catching an std, each track wittily, humorously, and sometimes bitterly revolves around a different relationship related issue. (Also, if I were 88-Keys, I’d re-release the album next month. But, instead of calling it “The Death of Adam”, I’d re-title it “Wait, my album is 5 times better than B.O.B.’s. Where’s my f*cking Adidas commercial?“)
Track two, “Nice Guys Finish Last”, is particularly insightful, as Keys raps about courtship and chivalry while an uncredited voice sings “Be nice to her” in the background.
“…go the extra mile dog, open the door for her
that’s more points all on your scoreboard
and you can give her hard wood like a floor board…”
It’s no accident that Keys follows “Nice Guys Finish Last” with “The Friends Zone”, a song spelling out exactly what many men feel is the end result of being too nice and too accommodating to a woman. Whether 88-Keys is 100 percent accurate in this assertion is inconsequential; what matters is the fact that many men (and women) truly do feel that nice guys finish last, and these songs resonate because of this common belief.
From our books and our blogs to our cds and our conversations, the idea that nice guys are near the bottom of the sexual totem pole is deeply embedded in our culture. But, although I do think that too nice guys probably do have more dating difficulties than, um, “not too nice” guys, I wonder how much of this feeling is just perception and self-fulfilling prophecy. To expound, what exactly do nice guys do (or not do) that gives them (and us) the idea that they’re destined for desert d*ck? And, do the nice guys who have dating difficulties have them because they’re “nice”, or are they subtly self-sabotaging themselves and using niceness as a scapegoat?
***Note: This post isn’t addressing “nice” guys in general, but nice guys who always seem to struggle with romance***
1. They tend to fight outside of their weight class
While I wouldn’t just come out and tell someone they’re pursuing women so far out of their league that the only realistic endpoint options are “friend’s zone” and “restraining order”, a problem I’ve seen with many self-proclaimed nice guys is that they pursue women so far out of their league that the only realistic endpoint options are “friends zone” and “restraining order”.
Thing is, while “out of his league” is usually cited when referring to aesthetically belligerent men attempting to holler at Beharies, in this context, “out of his league” describes what happens when a relatively inexperienced and sexually naive man puts all his eggs in a “she’s a bit too grown for you, dog” basket. They’re just not ready for the type of woman they’re interested in.
Basically, they’re flyweights (unsuccessfully) trying to get in the ring with heavyweights, not realizing that not being allowed to fight is actually for his own safety.
2. They tend to overestimate what everyone else is doing, and they blame what they’re not doing on their “niceness”
This isn’t just a nice guy issue, by the way. Even in yesterday’s entry, there were a few comments from women who assumed that pretty much every 25 to 30 year old man had at least 25 to 30 sexual partners; not realizing that only a small percentage of men reach those types of numbers.
Nice guys tend to take this to an extreme, though, occasionally adopting a self-defeating mindset based on the assumption that everyone is experiencing all these orgasmic experiences except for them; a blue-balls breeding state of mind that usually leads to bitterness and pay porn site subscriptions.
3. They waste too much time with people clearly not interested in them
Getting caught in the friend’s zone and staying there is (somewhat) acceptable when you’re still in high school or college. You’re young, (relatively) inexperienced, and you sometimes can’t help but get caught up if circumstance dictates that you’ll see many of the same people over and over again.
But, once you’ve graduated—or, if you’re a black male, “once you’ve dropped-out“—there’s no excuse to spend an entire weekend rubbing the shoulders and combing the scalp of some janky chick you’ve developed an unreciprocated infatuation for; watching her walk around her apartment in her pajamas while you blue-ball yourself with the distant hope that, one day, she might let you sniff her panties.
4.They don’t establish themselves as sexual beings
While it’s probably not the best idea to just pull out your wang and place it on the bar stool as soon as you meet someone, a subtle difference separating most “nice guys who struggle with dating” and “guy who have sex with women” is the fact that the guys who have sex with women don’t hide the fact that they’re interested in having sex with women. It’s not necessarily an overt acknowledgment either, as much as it’s just them letting a woman immediately know that they’re not really that interested in just being “cool”.
5. They tend to fall in love with ideas instead of actual people
Full disclosure: A decade or so ago, I was completely infatuated with a “friend” of mine, so infatuated that I actually did each of the four things I just listed. (Yes, even the weekend shoulder rubbing. I was still in college, though, so you can’t hold this against me)
Thing is, a couple pointed conversations and timely events made me realize that I was more into the idea of her possibly being into me than I was into her. I didn’t want her, I just wanted someone like her to want me; a state of mind leaving me stuck on a mental and emotional investment for someone I really wasn’t even all that attracted to. Basically, I wanted–needed— her to validate me. And, as you can imagine, she wasn’t particularly interested in doing that.
After talking to a couple “nice guy” friends of mine, it seems like they tend to get caught up in the same predicament; so focused on potential and possible progress that they lose sight of actual people and personalities.
6. They have a faulty definition of “finishing”
Put it this way: If you call yourself a nice guy, and you’re sore that you’re not able to perpetually procure random panties, maybe you’re not as nice as you claim to be.
—The Champ
Its cause they choose to finish last, I mean they want to be gentlemen?
Well hold up..who said being a gentleman means you finish last. Well maybe the all the way gentleman..I guess yea. But down here in New Orleans, women come from all over the world to as PJ would say “tangle the jiggz” b/c of our southern gentleman like ways. Now of course you have to spice it up a lil here and there but being a gentleman can lead to the panties!
I was trying my hand at a sexual indenndo <— yes indenndo
indenndo? That would explain why you failed . . .
lmao, I heard someone saying that on the train a few weeks ago. I wanted to see if it would fly.
Slightly off-topic: someone posted yesterday that they’d had “an epitome”. I think folks 7 floors down heard me get my Nelson “Haw HAW!” on.
Lmao!
LOL, I saw the epitome comment. It made me chuckle.
Chile, I cackled my a$$ off when I saw that but I prayed that no one would humiliate them.
i’m laughing right now so hard.its the gift that keeps on giving.
I missed yesterday’s post, but I’m cackling…thanks VSB!!!
@MsFiasco
Maybe if you said it more like I like nice guys because they let me finish first??
I was born/raised and currently live in the south, and sometimes the southern gentleman is M.I.A. or is that nowdays a lot of men in the South aren’t from the south as @fixedwater & @Helagramki mentioned some “Nice guys” are boring as hell or have other “motives” that’s why they are being nice. Sometimes as women we can ASSume or become soooo accustomed to guys only being nice/gentlemen so that they can get some. Seems like nice girls finish last #Imjustsaying
Yes I love a Southern gentlemen, I just think they lack the “swag” that Northerners have. I wish I could find a balance of both more often cause I can’t stand the nasty attitude many northerners have. Yeah you’re from NY, that’s great, can we stop yelling Brooklyn? And I think men that say “Son” or “Ma” are mad corny. I’m just saying. Where are the gentlemen that are neatly dressed and use no catch phrases and act mature?
“Where are the gentlemen that are neatly dressed and use no catch phrases and act mature?”
I’m one of them.
@SmartFoxGirl
LOL!!! Hol’ up, hol’up….you’re not gonna dis our slang up here :p
I get what you mean though. However I think there’s a time and place to use “son” or “ma” and it’s definitely not when you’re trying to approach a female.
LOL right use it with the boys.
I’m so hurt SFG…how you do my boys like that?!? Some of them have manners and know how to act. I think you keep running into the dudes who are just lame. Like they were lame in BK and now they’re lame in the south. I know a few good dudes…you want an introduction?
@Phidelity15
LMAO! Right, lame in the hood…lame universally
But I’m saying, I’m right across the Hudson…I should get an introduction before SmarFoxGirl :p
@LaLa I know somebody in Jersey too. He like 24 tho and he isn’t foine..he aiight, but he’s nice and funny and got good taste in music.
@Phidelity15
24….got anything a little closer to 28 (NY heads included)?
Yup! I do know this one dude. He’s a sweetheart and is actually the perfect blend of thug exterior with nice guy interior.
We need to do a happy hour or something…I would love to play cupid!
Lololol I got love for BK and all dat son. Na’ mean? Yeah hook a sista up, no squares doe…for reals.
Don’t you hate it when people move down south and DON’T represent us properly? They are always sooooo excited when they find out that you are from NY, but you feel the need to distance yourself immediately. I HATE that. That’s why I understand where SFG is coming from. Corny people eff it up for everybody else.
“I wish I could find a balance of both more often cause I can’t stand the nasty attitude many northerners have. Yeah you’re from NY, that’s great, can we stop yelling Brooklyn?”
i think you probably should separate “northerner” from “new yorker”. two completely different things
Um, you great and all but “son, ma and kid” seems to be universal in the northeast. Also, I been to NY, Baltimore, Boston, New Jersey, etc… Sorry dun, some of ya’ll lack manners.
@SmartFoxGirl
Champie does have a point…but what I’m more disturbed by is your inclusion of Baltimore as the north,lol!
We (North Jersey) don’t even claim South Jersey and Philly b/c they are so different from us…so don’t put Baltimore on us
That’s true! haha and I recently got corrected in including DC too. Of course it’s not all. The reason why I frequent the northeast so much is cause I love my peoples out there. lol
lol Oh No you didn’t
Baltimore is weird in that Geographically we’re the first state below the Mason-Dixon (South) but culturally we’re one big clusterphuck. Too Southern to be Northern, to Northern to be Southern just right smack dab in the Middle (Mid-Atlantic) Baby!!!!!!!!!!! WHOA!!!
yeah, though DC is as much home to me as anywhere i’ve ever lived at this point, as a real southerner, i don’t include DC. hell i lightweight don’t like including VA. but thats for personal reasons.
Alright now, next time you come up this way…I expect to know so we can hang out and act a fool
*fist pumps*
You betcha, I will def let you know! *terrorist fist bump*
Come move to New Orleans..
I dont have a problem with slang, lack of slang, just like lack of cursing, does not = respect.
you dont have to speak the kings english, we are not in class.
and if you say it right,
Hey Ma, is quite sexxy….
especially if you fine, smell good, and walk in close and say it…..
and of course.. nothing beats my favorite..
cmon ma….. F!ck wit ya boy…LOL
Ooooh you did make that sound s.exy. lol I love it when a man gets close and says things low. Gah dang.
“especially if you fine, smell good, and walk in close and say it…..”
YES, I’ll take a “lil mama” from a the good-smelling, deep voice anyday.
Major co-sign!
I luh dem boys up top from the BK…
I luh dem boys up top from the BK…
“I love a Southern gentlemen, I just think they lack the “swag” that Northerners have”
That’s my problem. I miss the swag that NY men have. I moved to the West coast 2 yrs ago and live around a lot of men from the south and west (A lot of southern men live in Seattle esp from Atlanta). It took me a minute to get used to their personalities. I love southern gentlemen, but miss the “swag.”
I can’t even imagine men in Seattle. Interesting. lol
Where are the gentlemen that are neatly dressed and use no catch phrases and act mature?
–
Out west.
But then they aren’t all gentleman.
They don’t always act mature either.
Okay.. They are the southern transplants who move to Oakland.
– I’ll let you know when I find one.
Chicken or the egg here? Is it that nice guys finish last or guys that finish last are nice. I say neither. It’s a matter of world view. I like nice guys who know when not to assert themselves. That kind of nice guy isn’t about posturing and puffing up his chest. He’s confident. He’s not trying to convince. He doesn’t have to be attractive. Men like that who are a balance of confidence, kindness and applied power get more attention than fellas who hope I’ll pity my way into loving them. Love yourself first. Then love your momma. Be kind. Know when to stand up for yourself and for me. But the real for real? Be kind to yourself first and foremost. Be happy. You will never finish last. You’ll scoop up every healthy one in the game…Trust…
@Tessism
“Be kind to yourself first and foremost…”
this right here is THE key! it is applicable to both (all) genders and if more of us would believe it, the less amount of foolishness we would have in our relationships
Crucial typo. Dangit!
“when to and when not to assert themselves” – Lawd!
Nice guys don’t finish last. Nice guys finish with nice women. Don’t confuse wackness for niceness. A lot of guys who think they’re getting the short end of the stick because they are too nice are actually just wack. All the chivalry in the world doesn’t cover the fact that so many of them have the personality of a Nextel Sky Pager!
Nope, nice guys finish last. I used to describe myself as a nice guy. I don’t any longer. Personal experience and that from those who have put my advice in practice has shown that when a woman asks if you are a nice guy, the correct answer is “No”.
From what I’ve seen and/or experienced, the correct answer is “I couldn’t tell you” or “you’d have to ask someone else”. I can’t be the judge of whether I’m a nice guy. It’s kind-of like that saying with the lawyer who defends himself having a fool for a client: self-assessment is usually not advised, and negative self-assessment seems to stick, whether warranted or otherwise.
As far as the particular GOP-themed response, you’re going to set off a radar in many women that just waits to detect something “not nice” about you. The first mean thing you do (and you will do something), you may as well pack up and get out of Dodge.
Oh I forgot to add:
1) Most nice guys aren’t going to admit their personality may be lacking.
2) Nice guys don’t have a lock on having a wack personality. Many of the most popular assholish men have the personality of a dirty sponge once they stop ‘acting out’. It reminds me of the kid in third grade who disrupts the class. He does it because he can’t read.
“2) Nice guys don’t have a lock on having a wack personality. Many of the most popular assholish men have the personality of a dirty sponge once they stop ‘acting out’. It reminds me of the kid in third grade who disrupts the class. He does it because he can’t read.”
tu shea and sh*t. tu muthaf*ckin shea
Did this kneegrow say “tu shea?!” I’m done with ya’ll! LMFAO
that right there just about made me spit out my green tea
LOL with the tu shea!
“Nice guys don’t finish last. Nice guys finish with nice women. Don’t confuse wackness for niceness. A lot of guys who think they’re getting the short end of the stick because they are too nice are actually just wack. All the chivalry in the world doesn’t cover the fact that so many of them have the personality of a Nextel Sky Pager!”
Yeah what Ms.Smart just said… high fives, co-signs and cobb salads.
This post reminds me of the fiber cereal commercial where the cute blond is eating the cereal she offers some to nice dude who exclaims “you care about my fiber… I have cared about your fiber for some time now”.
Cute blond doesn’t miss a beat points to nice girl in doorway and says “she cares about your fiber”.
Not verbatim but you get the idea.
They aren’t interested in the girl that is interested in them… they want the girl they feel should be interested in them.
I think the problem with some guys who classify themselves as nice is a sense of petulant entitlement… or wackness.
Like you SHOULD at least give them a call, date, kiss… because how do you know you aren’t interested Civil War Reenactments or Funny Car Shows or me… I bet you would go if I was taller, had more dough, treated you like sh*t.
Did anyone see Mega Mind… if not you should.
Jonha Hill plays the archetype of the “nice guy” that I am talking about… he thinks he needs to be Mega Man to get the girl of his dreams… and when he finds this isn’t the case he isn’t so nice about it.
The truth is a lot of self professed nice guys aren’t… nice.
“5. They tend to fall in love with ideas instead of actual people”
I knew a guy who thought he was nice… he didn’t get my jokes or my love for comic books and Stephen King novels. If he came over he would always ask me if we could listen to something else and he had no real interest in pop culture or world events… but he knew we belonged together.
So he tried to talk about and do things that I was interested in but if it wasn’t about history or cars… which is all I can think of because I didn’t find him interesting.
He was cool but… I mean we could be friends… and he agreed because he thought that was a way to get in… but it wasn’t.
The truth was as Champ pointed out he really wasn’t into me… just the idea of who he thought I was or could be if I got with him.
Self professed nice guys aren’t in love with you because they really don’t know who you are… outside of their head. ~JS
“Self professed nice guys aren’t in love with you because they really don’t know who you are… outside of their head.”
Preach!
They aren’t interested in the girl that is interested in them… they want the girl they feel should be interested in them.
Profound.
Thanks for the tip I really wanna see Mega Mind! Cool.
This line is often applicable to ALL men, not just nice men. Another variation is that they’re not interested in the women who want them, but in those that all other men want. It’s mediated desire, and I feel it’s a big part of why they think some women “should” be interested in them. They’re far worthier than all the other men interested in her, in their minds, and are waiting for her mental awakening for her to choose him as the best suitor.
Isn’t that applicable to all PEOPLE. No matter what girl I date, ever female friend I have always says, “You can do better”.
um…i think she might like you. lol
This: Nice guys don’t finish last. Nice guys finish with nice women. Don’t confuse wackness for niceness. .
AND
This: They aren’t interested in the girl that is interested in them… they want the girl they feel should be interested in them. .
I am in TOTAL agreement with. Yall can miss me with that “nice guys finish nice last” bs.
They aren’t interested in the girl that is interested in them… they want the girl they feel should be interested in them. .
Big co-sign! I meet too many nice men who think that they deserve a certain girl because they’re good guys and go after that girl for months (years) and don’t take no for an answer.
Nextel Sky Pager! <–*falls off chair.
Eternal Co-Sign. Shout out to Ms. Smart….
Bond.
‘Don’t confuse wackness for niceness’
Can we get this on billboards across the US? I mean a LOT of self proclaimed nice guys do that crap they see in movies as if all women should fall for it. If his idea of what love should be like is “Love Jones”…then he isn’t nice, he’s wack.
@Ms. Smart
MAJOR CO-SIGN!!!
@Ms. Smart
MAJOR CO-SIGN!!! Most guys who fall into this category may very well be nice, but they have sandy drawers because they are lame! Period. I can admit that in college, the @hole who acted uninterested would get attention occasionally, because it was refreshing to meet someone who wasn’t sweating me like a rubber jogging suit. At this point however, I date nice guys who are also niiiice. This is similar to the woman who thinks she’s a 10 and attributes not having a man to being intimidating…you are not intimidating boo boo, you have the demands of a 10, but you rate more like a 5.
Women like nice guys…who are likable guys.
If nice guys finish last, does that mean women or should i say the majority of women should be gearing up for unsuccessful relationships?since they might be more interested in being with men who could care less rather than being with men who clearly care but may or may not have certain skills.
What and who is a nice guy by the way? lol. Is there an homogenous definition of what a nice looks and acts like? Is there a consensus out there amongst women as to who should qualify for the nice moniker and who shouldnt?
Look at my comment downstream. I lay out what makes up a nice guy. Unless you are a control freak, relationships with nice guys are problematic unless they somehow learn to change that part of their personality. Ultimately, the relationship either ends because the nice guy gets tired of being walked on or the woman gets tired of doing the walking.
I guess it means we all have to stop dating the same 40% of men and venture into the unknown with the silent 60%.
“If nice guys finish last, does that mean women or should i say the majority of women should be gearing up for unsuccessful relationships?”
well, this depends on how you define ‘success” because, since 95 percent of the people reading this are going to eventually break up with the person they’re with right now, most people should be gearing up for unsuccessful relationships
LOL!!! (actually I hope this one is the last one. These men will drive you crazy these days)
Umm are we talking about nice (read: doormats) guys finishing last or NICE (read: respectful gentlemen) guys. The former finish last IMO b/c Women generally don’t want to walk all over the guy they are wit and they suffer from 1-3, and 5, the latter generally have problems with 4 and 6.
But I would add that some guys think they are “nice” but really are just
slow as molasses or wack or kidding themselvesnot that interesting. Boring guys finish last too, so it might be a good idea to conduct some honest self assessment or ask a friendif you have any.Yes I agree. Is it nice Gentleman or nice Doormats? I prefer gentleman. Doormats aren’t s.exy. I too have met a bunch of men who push the nice guy routine only to be passive agressive or pushy in other ways. That’s a turn off.
@SFG
Tell me about it. I’m in a current situation where this guy who’s trying to talk to me, keeps b*tching about how his exes treated him poorly and used him for chex and companionship. I realized he’s a doormat trying to use the nice guy card and got the “poor me syndrome”. It’s like he wants me to pity him and say “aww poor baby. I’ll be nice to you and take care of you unlike these other women. Who’s a good boy? u are so here’s a cookie”. I don’t understand how a man could think that’s attractive…
The “Poor Me” syndrome makes me do an uncontrollable eye roll. Who likes a whiner? And the all my exes are sooo yada yada yada is unattractive. I don’t want to hear about how the world is so messed up and everyone is out to get you. Ugh. I cosign. These people need to get a clue. I’ll be there for a friend, but I don’t want to hear this from a potential mate.
TheRealestLeo nice guys take note…..
keeps b*tching about how his exes treated him poorly and used him for chex and companionship.
Wait… I thought relationships were about chex and companionship. He didn’t want to give it up, that chex, that companionship. LOL
I was confused too when he said that. That’s when I knew he was fishing for the pity card when he said “women use me for chex and companionship”.
<—cosigns and endorses this post 100%
I also think its a ploy so the woman spoils him. Thus he lies/exaggerates about his failed relationships. The Doormat is trying to appeal to the nurturing side of a woman. They want to be babied & spoiled. Then they b!tch and moan when we're no longer attracted to them.
No wants wants to date Charlie Brown, plain and simple. We only hang with Charlie Brown to get at Snoopy.
The Doormat is trying to appeal to the nurturing side of a woman. They want to be babied & spoiled. Then they b!tch and moan when we’re no longer attracted to them.
Please say it louder!
“Umm are we talking about nice (read: doormats) guys finishing last or NICE (read: respectful gentlemen) guys.”
Self discovery and VSB posts are an amazing educational combo. I have mostly regarded myself as a nice guy over most of my history – especially up to age 29. Prior to then, I had a severe case of being a people-pleaser. I would overly concern myself with the contentment and well-being of others, often to the neglect of self. Then I had an epiphany and all of that changed significantly.
I remain gentlemanly always, but since my epiphany, I’ve noticed that when I’m dating someone that I’m lukewarm about, I tend to be the nicest a$$hole they’d ever meet. (Yes, I know that I can be an a$$hole at times, but at least I do so with a smile.) I would be nice and considerate enough that they’d recognize how good of a guy I’m as I tend to treat them better than other guys they’ve dealt with. My occasional off-hand comment or rebellious action are not typically seen as something so threatening that they would not be willing to endure it.
I realized from the relationship that I was in earlier this year that, when I’m all into the relationship and am sincerely trying to make a future with someone, I revert to being that super nice, accommodating guy who goes out of his way in an effort to make her happy. This has the unfortunate result of causing her to see me as a doormat as she does not realize how nice she’s got it with me compared to how I have treated others. This, in-turn, causes her to lose respect for me, IMO, then begin to detach herself from the relationship. Making matters worse, I look back on these type relationships and realize, like someone mentioned upthread, that I had began to focus moreso on the challenge of making the relationship work, and lost sight of the fact that I may not even have been compatible with the person to begin with, but was caught up in my perception of her.
It would appear, at least from my particular experiences, that some days you’re the dog, and some days you’re the hydrant. Going forward I’ll try to remain cognizant of this, and when I recognize that I’m too geeked about a new relationship, I’ll make a conscious effort to become more detached and not go outta my way making it all about her. To me this new-found mindset is dangerously similar to playing games and could serve to sabotage a potential relationship, but if the old ways aren’t working, it’s crazy not to try something different.
some days you’re the dog, and some days you’re the hydrant
This was great. Just wanted to say that.
I really appreciate your comment above. Very brave and candid to put your feelings out there like that.
I think the most important thing is being balanced. But I can understand the struggles of a guy wanting to be a good man and accommodating to his woman but fearing becoming a doormat. But on the flip side of that, I think it also has to do with the maturity level of the woman involved. Women yell out all day how they want a good man who does this and that and will spoil her – but when they get that, they want to walk all over you. I struggle with it myself at times. With my current SO, I’ll admit that I can be a ball buster sometimes and get on his case about petty sh*t but I can see how much it hurts and frustrates him because he is really trying and everyone makes mistakes. So I have to check myself from time to time when I feel my emotions heating up over something he did and ask myself is it really worth me going all in on him?
F*ck, relationships are hard.
@caballeroso,
I recently had this discussion with several friends. Ultimately, she just wasn’t that into you. We as women may entertain the company of a guy, but when he shows signs of getting attached we get irritated, only because we really dont feel him like that. A guy we REAAALLY dig, husband potential, can do the exact same stuff in the same time frame, and we will think he was custom made and sent from God. Don’t stop being you, because when it’s the right woman, she will be hoping for it and she will deserve it.
I dated a “nice” guy…But, he wasn’t assertive. He didn’t stand up for himself. So, his “niceness” wasn’t the issue. It was that he, for whatever reason, wouldn’t stop confusing nice for apathetic about life and his stance in it.
I was remarking to TheRealestLeo last week that you can be nice…and boring. Nice….and passive aggressive. Nice…and unambitious. In which case, the nice isn’t the problem. Everything else is.
If some guy’s only claim to fame is that he’s nice…he’s fooling himself into thinking that’s all he needs. A woman wants more. It’s like a woman saying “I’m fine” as her only qualifier as to why she deserves a good man. Uhm…no! There has to be more to the story than that.
hmm…maybe it’s the whole Badboy/Badgirl image (no puffDiddydanitykane) people fall for.
—->ex: Love Don’t Co$t A Thing where nerd/nice guy Nick Cannon’s character was in love with popular Christina Milian’s stuck up character. It goes to show that people are shallow and will tolerate bs bc of looks/status associated with an individual.
Some People say they want a good girl or nice guy, but when presented with one, they seem to turn ‘em down for various reasons. ——->ex: A friend of mine turned down a good dude(had a nice$job, no babymama no jailtime etc) & went back 2 her $crub exbf, because she didn’t know how to handle having a gentleman in her life and sadly was accustomed/attracted to sorry ninjas, but would be the first to complain…smdh!!!!
Then it’s the whole ego/image thing people are concerned about. Kind of like dating a celebrity and you’re Not an indu$try person/celeb or the Good dude with a blue collar job and Corporate/bougie America female would be embarassed at a countryclub/formal dinner party with him. (ex: could be the scene in “Deliever us From Eva”) Sometimes Opposite attract!
-{“Out of your leauge” whether that’s education/family background, neighborhood, financial status, social status,etc.
Goodguy that did NOT finish last? ex :Aladdin & Princess Jasmine)…..oh ish I’m on Disneymode which to some extent has effed up the femalepsyche (.SN I watched the multicutural Cinderella with Brandy I guess blackCinderella and Princess Tiana can’t have a black prince/vsb..unless it’s Coming to America)
You know i just noticed that Brandy’s Cinderella didnt have a Leading Black Male in it.
I’ve noticed it in Childrens Tv. *I blame my Lil Bro/Nickelodeon/Disney Channel* but Black female Leads never fall for Black males, ex: Tru Jackson and that white guy from the mail room. Also its never the opposite. i have yet to see a sitcom where a white woman is going out with a full black brotha, not these mixed dude who were supposed to be outta style…
yep! I fall in the 18-25 yrold demographic and don’t recall any chiildren/teen show with black male/nonblackgirl leads. I try not to get all Huey Freeman nit picky , but on tv & in certain real life circumstances it’s very rare to see young nice educated black girl with a black guy. Yeah we won’t see a 2520disneynickelodeon female lead with a obviously black guy..but I watch Degrassi (candian show) and biracial Jimmy now known as Drake had a black gf and a 2520gf and the blackgirl who was caledictorian of her class got preg by 2520guy…but the new Degrassi cast has a darker skinned Indian guy and 2520 girl together, but US TV/Media is funny..smh that’s why Degrassi is only shown on digital/satellite and not basic cable…
so left field but, man i loved me some degrassi!! everybody was talking about drake and i had no clue who he was. then i looked it up and i was like jimmy? and they had no clue who i was talking about…lol. needless to say i was confused for some time *shrugs*
Or consider that both Aisha Tyler and Gabrielle Union played romantic interests to male characters on Friends, the former as a recurring character. Or the fact that Shawn had a Black girlfriend on Boy Meets World. Or Toni’s husband on Girlfriends. The real-life ratio of Black male to Black female dating / marriage outside the race is definitely not reflected in Hollywood.
Part of it is as Ms. Smart says. Another part is that a lot of “nice” guys aren’t really nice, they just have a skewed perspective of the game and think that playing nice will get them the panties, maybe out of pity as Tessism suggests. [Basically your point 6 before you filled it in.]
As for point 2, here’s a study from 2007. I suspect that the numbers haven’t changed that much. Even if you double the average for men and triple (or quadruple) the average for women, you don’t get some of the absurd estimates about average numbers of partners that people were coming up with yesterday.
All I could see in that study was that black people are promiscuous and mexicans like their nose candy.
Sorry… hispanics.
“The median number of lifetime female sexual partners for men was seven; the median number of male partners for women was four.”
So even assuming that the lifetime median is really 14 for each (double the stated figure for men, 3.5 times the stated figured for women), we’re still far below some of the estimates that people were giving yesterday (i.e., 2-3 NEW partners every year from age 18 to 30).
Oh, I wasn’t meaning that literally. LOL
Oops!
Black men and women were more likely to report having 15 or more partners in a lifetime (46 percent and 13 percent, respectively) than other racial or ethnic groups.
That’s also a lifetime number, so it still means that over half aren’t doing those numbers, especially not by 25 or so and especially now that people are marrying later and divorce rates are high (thus increasing the number 35-40+ people who are single and mingling). Plus, the nice guy finish last meme and the player/whore double standard are universal tropes and not limited by race.*
But even putting all that aside, I think that what’s important (from the perspective of this post and the post yesterday), is that enough guys aren’t winning that they’re reaction to a woman’s high number isn’t just hypocrisy. Not everyone has Desmond Hatchett numbers. It might be hypocritical for a guy with 25-30 partners to be salty about women with similar numbers. It’s not quite the same for a guy who runs in a crowd where people are doing closer to the median (or maybe even the bottom quartile) and hears that a woman has had 20 partners. Doing those kinds of numbers, whether male or female, just isn’t on that kind of person’s radar.
Another way to put it is that it’s highly unlikely that all the blog posts and other media complaining about women wanting bad boys and thugs are being generating by dudes who were going through 2-3 new women a year (plus repeats and throwbacks).
* Something else to consider that also goes back to yesterday: a few posters suggested that 2520 guys were more accepting of women who have “pasts” or have been with guys in their social circle. But if the numbers for Black men and women are skewed that much from the general populace, it might suggest that in these circles, “having a past” means something totally different from the numbers that people were suggesting and that the comparison might not be apt.
“Something else to consider that also goes back to yesterday: a few posters suggested that 2520 guys were more accepting of women who have “pasts” or have been with guys in their social circle. But if the numbers for Black men and women are skewed that much from the general populace, it might suggest that in these circles, “having a past” means something totally different from the numbers that people were suggesting and that the comparison might not be apt.”
good point.
along with that study, i remember reading a study somewhere that basically stated that in the history of mankind, 80 percent of women who’ve lived on the planet have had children, while only 40 percent of the men. not sure exactly how relevant this is to today’s discussion, but i just thought i’d share
“not sure exactly how relevant this is to today’s discussion, but i just thought i’d share”
Maybe not relevant to today specifically, except to point out that historically a lot of men having been losing sexually and that this is probably the origin of frustrations such as the subject of this post. It is also important for people to keep in mind that what they see isn’t always what’s going on the rest of the world. There’s a joke/quote about a liberal /Democrat who was surprised when Nixon won and responded by saying, “How is that possible? Nobody I know voted for him!” If people’s views about male-female relationships are skewed by their social bubbles, they may not be able to understand the frustrations of the other side.
It might also have implication for how to deal with other issues, e.g., fatherlessness in Black homes. It’s one thing if it’s the result of a broad spectrum of Black men not getting it together and taking responsibility for their children. It’s something completely different if it’s a result of a sizeable minority of Desmond Hatchetts accounting for 40-60% of the single mothers out there, because you can’t expect a Desmond Hatchett to be there totally for all of his children as a matter of logistic plausibility, and telling “Black men” collectively to step up won’t do much if most men have been acting responsibly from the jump.
I was thinking about this today and even though it is way off topic. This goes to show that a majority of women sleep with a minority of men (cough elevated std rates)
“along with that study, i remember reading a study somewhere that basically stated that in the history of mankind, 80 percent of women who’ve lived on the planet have had children, while only 40 percent of the men. not sure exactly how relevant this is to today’s discussion, but i just thought i’d share”
If it interest you check out “The Sex Contract: The Evolution of Human Behavior” by Helen E Fisher.
It was first published in the late 70′s or early 80′s and is an interesting look at how evolution has left it mark on male/female relations and social dynamics.
From an academic perspective some of the information maybe dated… but it is nice food for thought ~JS
This is the problem with self reporting studies. Gay population aside, how is it possible for men and women to have a (vastly) different number of median sexual partners?
I”This is the problem with self reporting studies. Gay population aside, how is it possible for men and women to have a (vastly) different number of median sexual partners?”
There has been a long standing theory that women have greater access to sex then men.
But the more socially/biologically desirable male has access to a large pool of women.
Her access to sex is based upon availability and his is based upon social/biological desirability
Higher math isn’t a super power I possess… but the skew has been supported for decades in a variety of research ~JS
I’m not going to dispute that, but for every partner a male has, doesn’t there have to be a female participant and vice versa? Doesn’t basic logic say that if there are 10 men and 10 women, no matter who takes who to bed that average number of partners for each sex must be the same for men and women? Even if only one took all ten women to bed, and no one else did it, the average would still be one partner per man and one per woman. Somebody has to be lying if the median partners are that off.
What’s going on Champ? Not only did you not follow up on reasons 3, 4, and 5, you also didn’t even leave a prompt for further discussion? Is this one of those on-going edited posts that will be fleshed out 2 or 3 more times before 8am?
I think the biggest problem so-called nice guys have is one of assertiveness. I used to be one of those nice guys. Some of my friends still are. The lack of assertiveness comes across as a lack of confidence and further manifests itself as you being boring. What boggles my mind is how reluctant people are to change. I keep telling my friends, “If you keep doing the same thing you’re doing, you’re going to keep getting the same thing you are getting”.
1. The nice guy does not asset his sexuality. He is afraid of being seen as overly sexual, perhaps uncomfortable with displaying that part of him. He has even convinced himself that women dislike when men show that much interest early on. As a result, his flirting is lackluster. He does not playfully touch, he does not make any moves to kiss her at the end of the night, he may even avoid hugs. Pretty much, he avoids any actions that may build any sexual tension. As a result, he gets treated like any other guy with whom she does not have sexual tension – a friend.
2. The nice guy does not assert his sense of humor. While everyone knows that you need to modify your game depending on who is on the field, the nice guy brings almost no game to the table. Afraid of turning her off with an offensive joke or bad pun, he sticks with what is safe. He thinks he’s being smart while conveniently forgetting that everyone can play it safe and by doing so, he is no different from most other guys she talks to. And so because he brings nothing different to the table, he gets nothing different from her.
3. The nice guy does not relax. He has this set of complex rules he has created for himself regarding behavior with women. When he does actually talk to them, the subjects are limited. Starting a conversation is not spontaneous, it is planned. So he spends lots of time at the bar wondering why the girl he had such a hard time talking to, appears to be having a fun conversation with some douchebag over what seems to be absolutely nonsense. He forgets that the times he is actually engaging and having fun with his own friends are times when they are bullshitting and fails to realize that he can have just as fun conversations with women he’s just met.
4. The nice guy hesitates when making a move. For some reason, he seems to think he’s the only one actually checking other people out. He forgets that the chick he’s been checking out for the past 30 minutes has noticed him doing so. . . and not walking up to her to say a single word. She notices that he only makes a move when there is absolutely nobody in her vicinity that could be a threat. Without any words being spoken, he has already telegraphed that she’s not worth him taking the slight risk to his pride.
5. The nice guy exits too quickly. The nice guy seems to forget the term “hard to get” exists for a reason. Anything that remotely seems like a dismissal is a trigger for him to exit the conversation thinking “she didn’t like me after all”. Here is an example:
Nice Guy: “We should get coffee sometime”.
Girl: “Sorry, I don’t like coffee.”
Nice Guy: “I see. Well, I’ve enjoyed our conversation. It’s been nice meeting you”.
Girl: “Ok, bye.”
When instead it could go like this:
Guy: “We should get coffee next week Tuesday.”
Girl: “Sorry, I don’t like coffee.”
Guy: “Actually, I don’t like coffee either, I would just get hot chocolate. How about we go for ice cream instead?”
Girl: “Ok, but let’s make it Wednesday”.
Here, we see another issue stemming from the nice guy’s lack of assertiveness:
6. The nice guy sets himself up for failure. The nice guy asks open ended questions which can be answered as saying No to the guy, rather than no to the specific query. Example above – nice guy asked if she wanted to go out sometime. If she just says “No.”, she is saying “No, I don’t want to go out sometime with you”. If he’d asked “Would you like to go out on Tuesday” and she says “No”, she is saying No to going out on Tuesday. The first question results in nice guy ejecting at the first negative response. Much harder for the inexperienced guy to move forward from an open-ended no. Much easier to rephrase a no to a specific request. Nice guy pretends that women (whether consciously or unconsciously) don’t regularly test men for their worthiness. Nice guys rarely hurdle this simple test.
The “nice guy” complaints I had and I’ve heard have pretty much all boiled down to the assertiveness issue. It makes them look like they lack confidence. It makes them seem boring. It causes them not to generate any sexual tension. And it causes them to miss out on opportunities. The bigger problem is that the nice guys “get lucky” every once in a while (in fact, that is where the term comes from – real guys don’t “get lucky”, there’s no luck involved). They luck out in that for various reasons, they are not on their guard and actually act like regular human beings and bypass all the incorrect behaviors that somehow manage to get bred into nice guys. Or they run into a woman interested in them enough to ignore some of these issues. And despite recognizing that they got lucky, they persist in believing in their nice guy philosophy.
This response along with Champ’s post makes a lot of sense and rings true to me.
@ Weethomas,
Your #2 and 3 especially resonates. A guy can’t be so stuffy or stiff with a woman where she sees him as the stuffy, stiff “HERBavore” (codeword: HERB) that can’t loosen up and have fun or put it down chexually if given the chance. For a person to see themselves in a relationship with someone, they have to be comfortable with them and feel like they can talk to them, be intimate with them communication-wise, and let down their guard.
@weethomas
Where were you when I was learning this the hard way? This is the basis for a best seller
#1 I think this is very cool. However, I respect when a man recognizes that certain behavior can build sexual tension and holds himself back, I try my best to do the same.
#3 oooohhh..that’s what it is. Cool
yes yes yes yes!
[/thread]
Agreed on all counts. The problem with “nice guys” isn’t that they’re nice, but that they often times lack the assertiveness necessary to close the deal. Great comment.
@weethomas
“The nice guy exits too quickly. The nice guy seems to forget the term “hard to get” exists for a reason. Anything that remotely seems like a dismissal is a trigger for him to exit the conversation thinking “she didn’t like me after all”. ”
I’ve been guilty of this when I was younger. But my take was if you say no then I move on b/c there are a few more lined up after you. I don’t chase after anyone. For every instant no you get there is an instant yes.
Exactly. I refuse to chase a woman. As I’ve said before….The term ‘chase’ implies that she is moving away from me for one reason or another. Therefore, logically and semantically speaking, nothing says “Get the f*ck away from me” better than her saying “No.”
I have to challeng your mindset. Honestly, from everything you’ve mentioned on here over the past few weeks has clued me into why women do not want to date you. Refer to the post above and see #3. You do not relax.
You talk about what YOUR intentions with a woman are, how YOU convey that to her, how YOU get rejected and how YOU are/aren’t gonna do xyz because that’s not how YOU get down. The bottom line is that you spend a lot of time focused on YOU and that leaves very little time focusing on the art of how to just talk to a woman, leave her intrigued by you and what her role in things might be.
The line “I refuse to chase a woman” is consciously or unconsciously the reason why you don’t get much interest (as you’ve stated…not assuming). It’s because you come into the situation with preconceived noton of what’s gonna happen, instead of letting things unfold naturally.
That’s just what I see from text. I don’t know you so you can take it with a grain of salt. Just saying…you may want to evaluate how to just talk to women without the pressure and the here’s my agenda speech….
“You talk about what YOUR intentions with a woman are, how YOU convey that to her, how YOU get rejected and how YOU are/aren’t gonna do xyz because that’s not how YOU get down. The bottom line is that you spend a lot of time focused on YOU and that leaves very little time focusing on the art of how to just talk to a woman, leave her intrigued by you and what her role in things might be.”
I think this is gender neutral… as someone mentioned down thread that other side of the nice guy coin is the successful woman.
I think that both have difficulty because their focus is on building social assets that THEY believe to be of value to the opposite sex…
And they pick the wrong set of social assets when they try to emulate the behaviors of the more socially successful.
And when they don’t achieve a desirable result… they hate the game.
The gender neutral truth is that most in this situation should find something they are passionate about outside of finding a relationship.
It would help if that passion had a healthy male/female ratio… or is something that the opposite sex is passionate about.
In this type of environment the individual can shine because they are there for organic reasons and they will meet people that they share something in common with thus relieving a lot of the social pressure that they face in a general social environment. ~JS
I have a feeling that I am grossly being misunderstood and unfairly labeled as a result around these parts, but I suppose there is only so much I can get out behind this computer screen. I think some of y’all would have to actually see me in person and see the situation (or lack thereof) I am currently in to get a better picture.
So this is the post where I try my damnedest to clear this sh*t up, because I am not the unofficial spokesman for the Nice Guy Association here on VSB. (Yeah, I peeped that downthread….it’s all good though.)
When I approach a woman….it is supposed to be smooth and natural. I understand that, but I will admit that *MAYBE* my game needs work. But my current job and location prevents positive interaction with enough Black women to even be able to do that. If I cannot practice my game, I can’t expect to get better. If there are few decent Black women where I live, it is going to be difficult to try to date one.
I’ve done the whole introspective, reflecting on myself and my issues and what I need to do to change them thing. Did it in high school, did it again at Howard, did it version 3.0 after that, and now I’m on Windows 7, Service Pack #6 here in the Army. I’ve sat back and analyzed myself, what I say to women, how I approach them, the kinds of women I was attracted to…..everything you and others have either subtly, directly, sarcastically, or indirectly suggested to me over the past several blogs. I get it. I know who I am and where I am in the game. As a result, I focus on myself WAY MORE than I should, which might manifest itself in the way I talk to other people. I need someone to help me get away from myself so that I can be more “we” and less “me”. So that I can truly learn how to effectively talk TO women and not talk AT them like I have a bad habit of doing these days.
I can assure you, however, that I don’t put the pressure on a woman when I talk to her. I take all the pressure out of dating by NOT EXPECTING any results when approaching women….and I have no sense of entitlement when I do nice things for women, although I will admit that back in my Doormat days I did…badly. “Quid Pro Quo” is not the backbone of a kind person.
It is going to take some work to get to where I want to be on this topic. It is also going to take some cooperation on the behalf of the fairer sex. Maybe I could benefit from the services of a female friend (in real life) to actually serve as a tutor of sorts….so that I can get some actual game time in and not just film sessions.
I’m actually looking for solutions….I’m not Terrell Owens sitting on the turf after getting bumped around by the proverbial defensive back that is the dating game looking to the refs wondering where the flag is. What a lot of people aren’t understanding is that I am not in much of a position to put in much work, a location with, or a profession that encourages or supports me solving most of the issues I have in the dating game……thus making it EXTREMELY DIFFICULT to even do something as simple as asking a woman out to dinner. Or approach a woman in a grocery store and make conversation. Or give a woman a genuine compliment on her outfit without her lecturing me on her sexuality and how it has nothing to do with men. (By the way, that has happened to me more than once.)
Oh….one more thing….I really don’t think I am that much of a Nice Guy anymore. Some of the previous posts I’ve made about how women don’t like Nice Guys were based on women I had dealt with in the past when I really was more of a doormat type you all have clearly, convincingly, and concisely explained (about 146 times in today’s blog alone) that is NOT appealing to women. Honestly, I could never be an a**hole no matter how instantly gratifying it might be to tell a woman “F*ck You* for rejecting me….That isn’t gonna get me any long-term results. My parents would likely kill me in sequence. Plus it’s JUST NOT WHO I AM.
Hopefully this doesn’t fall on already-moved-on-to-the-next-thread ears. This needed to be said.
But I think weethomas was speaking on how “nice guys” take most signs a woman might give as being a signal to abort the mission. It’s more an indication that these guys have already anticipated the rejection coming and are prepared to exit before even beginning, thus setting themselves up for failure.
Wait, why are you even commenting on this post. You’re not a nice guy!
But, seriously, I agree. weethomas isn’t talking about women directly rejecting them (i.e. saying “NO” to a “yes or no” question like “can I take you out sometime?”). In the example above with the coffee, she didn’t reject HIM, she rejected the specific notion of coffee being the date since she doesn’t drink it. I think the term is not so much “chase” as it is “actively pursue.”
Guilty as charged also. lol. I just don’t have the time and patience to chase women like a recreation sport…..
…tsk, tsk..tsk…..this right er??? this right here is one of the reasons why the female/male interaction of nowadays is so damn disgruntled!!! no body wants to do anything for the other….what happened to back in the day when men used to “court” women, and women had higher “realistic and healthy” standards of what a gentleMAN was…i mean honestly, if men and women resorted back to those ways instead of all these “head/mind gamez bs” people be on, we just might have a nation of healthy male-female relationships!!!
Amen, on that last comment. I consider myself a nice guy and a splendid catch (no diva dude) but, if I ask a chick, “do you want to go out” and she states, “no”. I’m NOT going to try and overcome that objection. I know how to do it, I just don’t want to even try. Her loss. I am a grown ass man and I don’t have time to find out why you don’t want to kick it. I don’t care. There are tons of chicks lined up behind you.
“What’s going on Champ? Not only did you not follow up on reasons 3, 4, and 5, you also didn’t even leave a prompt for further discussion? Is this one of those on-going edited posts that will be fleshed out 2 or 3 more times before 8am?”
LOL, yeah when I saw the other reasons listed in bold with no follow-up, I knew Champ was gonna edit it. That is not like him to just put a headline and not explain it. Plus, he hadn’t added his fun tags at that time.
yes, yes, yes- all this. “nice guys” get too intimidated to be themselves.
I think we’re using the word nice in the wrong context. These descriptions just sound like an awkward person…..someone lacking social norms. Lol
Either way that was a good breakdown.
weethomas: this comment for the win.
cosign.
i agree with everything you said, except this:
“5. The nice guy exits too quickly. The nice guy seems to forget the term “hard to get” exists for a reason. Anything that remotely seems like a dismissal is a trigger for him to exit the conversation thinking “she didn’t like me after all”.”
i think nice guys actually tend to do the opposite–spend too much time trying to get at women who clearly aren’t and probably never will be interested. these women aren’t playing hard to get, they don’t want to be got at all
I think this is where nice guy meets oblivious guy lol.
Though I do think there is some truth to it as well. I didn’t address this too much since I wanted my list to focus on issues nice guys have in the pre-dating stage, but I think what you described happens a lot once they are dating. They stick with women who aren’t really that interested because they are so conditioned for rejection that women who do show interest become extremely special and warning signs get overlooked.
@weethomas – FABULOUS COMMENT! Should be an addendum to Champ’s post (which was also spot on).
I think that guys rely on the “nice” tag to cover for other inadequacies. Someone upthread said we were using the word nice instead of awkward and to some extent, I think they’re right. But an awkward person can be nice too, right? Perhaps this person refuses to recognize that it’s his AWKWARD side that’s panty-prohibitive and blames his NICE side instead. WRONG!
Case in point: This one guy has been in my Friend Zone since high school. He’s pretty much everything I’m looking for… so what’s the problem? He is not the least bit chexual. In fact, he’s lacking so much chex appeal that I liken him to a Ken doll when I imagine him naked. He’s too awkward for his own good and he blames his niceness, but in reality he’s oblivious/nervous/desperate when talking to women.
During the courting process, a female is attracted to a male’s pheremones and rituals (pounding of the chest, beautiful feathers, dance, growl/noise). We’re looking for the strongest of the pack; Darwinism at it’s best! The strong persevere and the weak fall back. If the Nice/Awkward guy doesn’t acquire the necessary skills to attract women, he’ll become extinct. I don’t feel sorry. Part of life.
yo, my dude…..that was so succinct and informative, i’m speachless. lol I gotta “LIKE” this.
Bravo to u for actually seeing where u were going wrong with the whole nice guy business and not just saying “ah, F*&^ it, imma just be a jerk now”
Best, realest, most on-point, break-down in the history of break-downs ever!
(Co-sign)
Best, realest, most on-point, break-down in the history of break-downs, ever. (Co-sign)
@weethomas.
from what i read you make good points, however this post and my ADD does not get along..Lol
weethomas’ post is sooo on point! It needs to be in a dating manual
Indeed – good stuff, weethomas!
i was telling my Homie(when i say homie i actually mean a homie, definitely not me) this about 6 months ago, he was dealing with a chick that he didnt actually let her know that he was interested and she slapped the *Brother I Never Had* title on him. He was wondering why she did this and i told him it was because he didnt basically flirt in a sense.
They talked but it was like a coworker relationship than anything, the fact that still trips me out is before she slapped the title on him she said “Is it crazy that people think that we are talking?” his response was yes.
i think that was his moment. most nice/naive guys miss those opportunities…
Yes, women don’t know. Sometimes it’s obvious, but other times we really don’t know.
Yes! Many times I see nice guys to be slow that might be why they finish last. It’s like some can’t take a hint because they’re so insecure about what women think of them. You will def miss opportunities that way. I introduced a coworker to a friend of mine that he was practically in love with and he moved sooooo slow. She even asked him “What are you doing this weekend” and he said “nothing, probably build a website”….WRONG answer buddy, you should have said “Hanging out with you.” I even texted him trying to help saying ASK HER OUT and he called her the next day. Wtf? We like men who know what they want and go after it. Some people are just clueless.
I’ve made that same mistake in undergrad. I just don’t understand why people equates game=confidence. I think my problem is… I have the confidence part. But my sometimes aloofness gets the best of me.
They may finish last, but isn’t that great? When women get tired of the “thugs in a business suit routine” its nice to have the nice guy open your door and share your cab ride home.
Nice guys give me the hope that there IS hope!!!
But isn’t the point that they want to be plan A and desired from the start, not plan B after women get tired of messing with other guys? Isn’t the scenario that you’re suggesting (unless I’m misunderstanding like the reverse of a man saying that he’ll settle down with you ten years from now after he’s sown his oats?
Co. Sign.
There is no way I am going to sit around and wait for someone to make time and/or emotional space for me.
Well, not just me: I don’t think anyone should, male or female. Someone trying to put you in that ‘Plan B’ role makes you second in their eyes. You accepting it makes you second in yours.
From the archives.
lol, i didn’t even notice you had linked to this too
“Someone trying to put you in that ‘Plan B’ role makes you second in their eyes. You accepting it makes you second in yours.”
And there it is.
? it!
“Someone trying to put you in that ‘Plan B’ role makes you second in their eyes. You accepting it makes you second in yours.”
I must say, the above is a beautifully put statement. It should be on a coffee mug or somethin’.
the e-boo for the win!!
*blows e-kisses.
Speaking for myself, nice guys are plan A. I hadn’t come across a “nice guy” for a couple of years. I thought they were extinct.
Hellz to the no. Who celebrates finishing second in the Super Bowl?
“They may finish last, but isn’t that great? When women get tired of the “thugs in a business suit routine” its nice to have the nice guy open your door and share your cab ride home.”
http://www.verysmartbrothas.com/straight-scraps-how-hot-is-that/
LOL. When I read your response above I hadn’t seen this and had no idea what you were talking about.