Tuesday night, I met several friends at William Penn Tavern–a popular Pittsburgh-area sports bar—for their weekly 30 cent wing special. While there, game two of the WNBA Finals happened to showing on the flat screen directly above our table. After making a few perfunctory jokes about the uniforms–Bing is written on Seattle’s jerseys instead of Seattle. No, Seriously. –and the Seattle Storm reserve who bared a slight resemblance to Justin Bieber, the topic shifted to what the WNBA could do to make itself more popular. Although everything from tighter uniforms to a 9 foot rim–so more players could dunk–was suggested¹, we all kept coming back to the same answer: Nothing
Now, this is no indictment on the WNBA. This league contains some of the most skilled and best conditioned athletes (male or female) on the planet, and the playoff games are just as intense and hard-fought as the NBA’s. But, sports culture–the players, the fans, the mythology–is decidedly and intentionally chauvinistic to the point of misogyny¹, and one of the bi products of this dynamic is the fact that, aside from a few exceptions, casual and diehard sports fans (male and female) are just not that into the idea of watching women playing sports.
This brings us to Ines Sainz.
Sainz, a reporter for Mexican television station TV Azteca, was reportedly sexually harrassed by members (players and staff) of the New York Jets last weekend. While the allegations aren’t especially vicious–she was apparently catcalled and whistled at a few times while attempting to interview Jets quarterback Mark Sanchez–I can understand how she might have felt objectified, disrespected, and even scared.
But, from her own words (read the tweets below), she was also dressed like this when at the Jets facility:
For the past few days, I’ve been trying to find a way to craft my thoughts about this situation in the most objective, politically correct and inoffensive way possible. I asked my girlfriend and a few of her friends for their take on this situation. I asked myself how I’d feel if Sainz was my daughter or wife. I even cited her possible cultural naivety–maybe she’s just not aware of how provocative her clothing is.
But, I’m also sure she has at least a peripheral understanding of the dynamics involved with sports culture, and I’m certain she’s aware that of all the major American sports, football is widely considered the most hypermasculine. And, when you enter that culture on their territory with an outfit explicitly suggesting your tits and ass are the only parts of you meant to be taken seriously, it shouldn’t be a big surprise when your tits and ass are the only parts of you taken seriously.
With this in mind, I can’t help but think she just got what she was asking for.
I realize the danger of that statement. Hospitals, court rooms, college dormitories, and graves around the world are filled with rape victims whose perpetrators would have said the exact same thing. For some sexual predators (and enablers), all a woman needs to do to “ask for it” is be born.
But, I think we’ve become so PC on the side of “a victim is always just a victim” that we’re reluctant to admit that victim-blaming isn’t always a wrong concept. This wasn’t a curvy woman getting harassed while walking to work or even a drunk college girl who was taken advantage of at a frat house. No, she’s a grown and perfectly lucid woman who made the conscious decision to dress in a provocative manner while at one of the most male-dominated, hyper-hetero places of business in the country.
If I get beat up, stabbed, or shot while walking through a known Crip area at night with a Chicago Bulls jersey and two red bandannas around my neck, sure the criminals need to be caught and brought to justice, but that sh*ts on me too. Did I deserve to get assaulted? No. Was my intentionally reckless behavior a major contributor to said assault? Yes. Admitting your personal culpability doesn’t absolve the perpetrators of any blame.
You know, the more I think of Sainz’s situation, the more I think this really had little to do with sex. Or, more specifically, it had little to do with her gender. Type-A, alpha male type of men–the type of men found in spades on NFL rosters and staffs–regularly intimidate, ridicule, mock, taunt, and sexually humiliate other men as a way to assert their status (they wouldn’t be alpha males if they didn’t do this), so it’s no surprise they’d treat an outsider, an outsider with attire suggesting they’re weak, whimsical, and irrelevant, that way. Trust me, they would have been just as quick to tease and taunt an inappropriately dressed man, and they probably would have been even meaner.
Through all of this, I’m not suggesting Sainz’s harassment should be ignored. I’ve shared my feelings about the ills of NFL culture before, and whoever’s responsible for this incident needs to be punished and even suspended. But, there are many other attractive female reporters in NFL locker rooms, women treated with respect and courtesy because they dress and act in a serious manner. And, if Sainz wants to treated professionally, she should probably stop dressing like she belongs to the world’s oldest profession³.
¹There were men and women at this table, btw.
²Sure, most of us would encourage our daughters to join sports teams and be active at a young age, but once you remove that personal connection, the fact reminds that aside from maybe hip-hop, there’s no other major industry that cultivates latent sexism the way sports culture does. The WNBA will always struggle to gain traction with the much coveted 21 to 35 year old diehard single male and 21 to 35 year old casual single female consumer because the things we associate with top athletes—hyper-aggression, cold-bloodedness, feats of physical prowess—are the complete antithesis of what most of us have been socialized to associate with femininity. Also, diehard sports fandom is largely driven by sexual vicariousness. Basically, while a base part of most diehard male fans wants to be Kevin Garnett and Peyton Manning, a base part of most diehard female sports fans wants to be with them, and I don’t think that same dynamic applies to top female athletes.
³For the record, I know saying she’s dressed like a “ho” is a pretty excessive, but I just thought titling it with the Chappelle line and ending it with the “professional/world’s oldest profession” play on words was cool. #contrivedbutstillcoolwritingdevices
—The Champ
I’m reminded of Dave Chappelle…
“Just because I am dressed this way does not make me a whore….Just because I am dressed this way does not make me a police officer.” It’s all about presentation in my opinion. If she wanted to be taken seriously, she would’ve dressed…well…more serious.
Most ladies I know only go out in jeans that tight for one of two things.
1) “I still got it!”
2) “See girls, I told ya’ll these jeans still fit!”
“Most ladies I know only go out in jeans that tight for one of two things.
1) “I still got it!”
2) “See girls, I told ya’ll these jeans still fit!””
would #3 be “they’re attending a camel toe contest”?
Because nothing is more appealing than seeing a woman pull out a camel toe repeatedly and winning a prize for it
“would #3 be “they’re attending a camel toe contest”?”
I just fell on the floor!
Cause she is def “wearing a whores uniform…”
Hmmm…I believe this is one of the first times I disagree with The Champ…
If you don’t mind my asking, what is it you disagree with?
Well mami is not a real journalist. According Jamelle Hill, she is a journalist/model who’s past behavior and stories are generally about sexual objectification of herself and the players. Once a switch is flipped where people a person conditions people to not take them seriously, it is difficult to have that switch flipped back into the opposite direction.
Honestly, Spanish television is notorious for this type of thing most of their shows especially sports (google: republica deportiva) shows feature some sort of scantily dressed women, often showing cleavage, so to a certain extent this is kind of culture clash.
However with that said it is unintelligent to go into a football team’s locker room dressed like that, it is like walking into a frat house bathroom with guys in there wearing skimpy clothes and expecting no one to try you.
Me too.
I so totally and fundamentally disagree that I would have to actually write a post to disagree… I’m lazy though.
I disagree, too. I’m tired (so very tired) of everything being blamed on the woman. Why can’t we actually expect men to act like ADULTS and not whoot and holler? Why is it HER fault for wearing those outfits? I’m not saying I agree with her decision to don those clothes (her ass is pretty fabulous, though-no lie) just that it’s so often our society expecting women to know better instead of asking me TO ACT BETTER! They shouldn’t be given a pass on behaving themselves just because they get paid millions of dollars to throw a ball around. C’mon, Champ. We can agree to disagree but I expected you to be a whole helluva lot more open-minded about this.
I mean “asking MEN to know better”. iPhone fail.
So, I disagree with Champ too, but here’s why.
#1 – I think this is simply a big culture clash. I don’t know how many nights I’ve flipped through Telemundo and stopped because the chick doing the news was absolutely beautiful and very scantily clad. And I’m a woman! But Latino cultures embrace their sexuality in all forms of media.
#2 – Ines was not the one who filed the sexual harrassment claim. She just continued to do her job. It was another woman who overheard the catcalls that filed the claim. My thing is, let me file if it’s offensive to me. Don’t bring me into no big PR campaign about me cause your panties are in a bunch. If you’re offended, you handle it on your terms and don’t drag me into it.
#3 – She never disparaged the team or the management for this unfortunate incident. She’s proud of her work, proud of her outfit and happy to covering football. She wants to keep doing that. She’s not asking for money. She’s not seeking the publicity. This was all thrust on her. I think she’s doing a great job handling the situation.
That’s my two cents. Back to lurking…
Not to take this TOO far, but are you alleging that she is Monica Lewinsky to the suit filer’s Linda Tripp?
If this is true, and no, I’m not accusing Saint of pulling a Lewinsky, but shouldn’t she denounce the suit if she disagrees with it?
Interesting analogy. I do think it’s a little Monica/Linda Tripp-ish. I think the issue is that she won’t denounce someone else if they felt harassed. She’s simply vocal that she never personally felt harassed.
Very well said sir. I haven’t kept up with the intricate details of the issue, but I wonder what’s her rationale for dressing er…….a bit more provocatively than the typical reporter? What does she expect?
the more i think about it, the more i think it’s a cultural thing. but, if she’s a professional, she should have done her research and learned certain things don’t fly the same way here.
I agree with you champ that its a cultural thing. Have you watched some of the spanish channels news or other programming? Many of the females anchors, commentators (20 to early 30s) all dress like that Ho-ish uniform
Yeah they’re off the chain on Telemundo and Univision. It’s been like 7 in the morning and I’ve seen newscasters on there wearing tube dresses and 5 inch heels. I’m like “this is the news?” LMAO I chalk this whole case up to cultural differences. Ms.Sainz obviously didn’t see anything with her outfit since that’s the norm for her culture. She’s a brave chick, ain’t no way I woulda worn anything remotely close to that knowing I’d be in a locker room full of dudes.
If I was in Ms. Sainz shoes, I would’ve worn a burka, a pair of Ugg Boots and a hockey mask would’ve been covering my face.
The image is cracking me up. I would have never thought to put a burka with Uggs. LOL
And I wouldn’t even shake their hands either.
With some of these athletes, I think a woman can get pregnant through a simple handshake.
You can go into a football locker room to interview a few players, but end up leaving an hour later, in your second trimester.
The image is cracking me up. I would have never thought to put a burka with Uggs. LOL
i’ve seen a burka and patent leather jordans before, so anything is possible
This right here.
Every situation deserves to be looked through thoroughly, but blame puts the onus entirely on the person in question – which in the case of a victim isn’t right.
It doesn’t sound like Sainz feels she’s a victim, which I suppose is the most important thing – but the general response is very disheartening.
i think everyone is missing the point. by suggesting that the way she dressed provoked…whatever. its promoting the whole “boys will be boys thing”. if thats her body then she shouldnt have to wear a potato sack just so the excitable 13 year old boys (i mean grown men…i mean…whatever, same thing) aren’t overwhelmed. certain things are unprofessional (like those tight ass jeans) but that changes nothing for me, she should deserves the same amount of respect as a woman in a snow suit. i dress conservatively because im afraid of getting the wrong kind of attention. but my fear isnt justifying another woman being harrassed if she does. my fear and this situation as a whole is just one of many examples of how women are constantly constricted by ridiculous ideologies, and then criticized after the fact for ‘reckless behavior’.
When I first, first, saw this story, and saw the photo without the headline, I thought she was a cheerleader. Not a journalist.
me too, lol!
I’ve never commented before have always read. I do want to say, Champ, I’m not sure if you saw this morning or if it aired in your area. However, Inez was on the Channel 5 Morning News for New York and she indicated that she knew that her clothes were provocative and that she can not help it that she is sexy and she is not going to make herself ugly to get her work done. Also, that the players should just do their jobs as she is doing her regardless if she is sexy. In the end, I agree with you, she kind of asked for it period! And the ridicule of Clinton Portis is stupid. She walked into a locker room of naked men, knowing she was “sexy” so ….
i haven’t heard her voice yet. my knowledge of this situation has been all through internet articles. but, if that’s what she said, i think she’s missing the difference between dressing “ugly” and dressing appropriately. you can still be sexy with a pants suit that doesnt look to be painted on
“she knew that her clothes were provocative and that she can not help it that she is sexy and she is not going to make herself ugly to get her work done.”
“she’s missing the difference between dressing “ugly” and dressing appropriately. you can still be sexy with a pants suit that doesnt look to be painted on”
Clearly her priorities are in the wrong place as well. When I get ready for work I’m not thinking “well, I’m sexy (and BOY am I ever) so I’m NOT gonna hide it”… No, I’m thinking “well, sh!t I got about 4 meetings today so that means I’m gon’ be running all over… flats it is!”
“…Inez was on the Channel 5 Morning News for New York and she indicated that she knew that her clothes were provocative and that she can not help it that she is sexy and she is not going to make herself ugly to get her work done…”
This is the kind of stuff that I cannot stand about SOME (not all) women.
Besides, I refuse to believe that she was sexually harrassment, unless she has some concrete evidence. If she said that catcalls were the only thing that she experienced, then I don’t think it was horrific. I have been sexually harrassed before (in the past and I’m sure there are plenty VSS who experience it as well) and if I had to pick the lesser of two evils (catcalling or the groping), I settle for the ‘hey ma, you got a phat a$$’.
If she said that catcalls were the only thing that she experienced, then I don’t think it was horrific.
Exactly. Like, what do you expect when you’re walking in to a locker room full of men, all hyped up from ramming into eachother at top speeds for three hours? Take the catcalls and whistles and move your a__ out the way.
Which is why I believe she (or her managers) is more offended that these Americans (both black and white) are speaking about her in such fashion.
i’m trying to be objective, but for right now I disagree. Using your example…while it may not be smart to walk around in all red in a crip area, you definitely don’t DESERVE to be shot, beat up, etc… Was it stupid? yes! do you deserve to die because of your mistake/ignorance? NO!
….maybe i need to sleep on it.
Was it stupid? yes! do you deserve to die because of your mistake/ignorance? NO!
i agree with this, and in no way did i suggest she deserved what happened. but, she should shoulder a part of the blame
Ain’t that exactly what Champ said?
“If I get beat up, stabbed, or shot while walking through a known Crip area at night with a Chicago Bulls jersey and two red bandannas around my neck, sure the criminals need to be caught and brought to justice, but that sh*ts on me too. Did I deserve to get assaulted? No. Was my intentionally reckless behavior a major contributor to said assault? Yes. Admitting your personal culpability doesn’t absolve the perpetrators of any blame.”
I know Champ is an edit-freak with his writing, but I have to actually give props to him for putting it the way he did. I think that’s the mistake folks make when they automatically get up in arms when you mention how someone should’ve made a smarter decision in a situation like this. They automatically assume you mean they “deserve” it, and the perpetrator is completely let off the hook. Which, no, it’s just not that black and white. Little in life ever is…
They automatically assume you mean they “deserve” it, and the perpetrator is completely let off the hook. Which, no, it’s just not that black and white. .
Yup!
Just like I wouldn’t go into a prison group with a bunch of inmates who haven’t smelled poo-nanny in years, wearing a short tight skirt and halter. Instead, I wouldn’t shower for days, leave my hair uncombed and slap on the burka that Mimi mentioned upthread and then maybe enter the lion’s den. LOL
no burqa if you in france tho.
http://articles.cnn.com/2010-07-13/world/france.burqa.ban_1_burqa-ban-veil?_s=PM:WORLD
carry on.
@Cheekie
“Ain’t that exactly what Champ said?”
lmao i HATE when ppl dont read!!!! esp on VEE ESS BEE–home of the very smart folk. reading is fundamental, yall.
LOL, to her credit, she probably posted that comment before I made my final edit. maybe the part about “not deserving” hadn’t made it in there yet
Oh, okay I kinda thought that, but wasn’t sure since she mentioned the Crip example specificaly. But you edited within that example. Editing a*s.
Thank you champ…I posted this at 12:14. I dont recall that portion. If it was there hey it was late and I could have skimmed by it.
In either case I will change the first line from “i’m trying to be objective, but for right now I disagree” to “i’m trying to be objective, AND I AGREE THE BLAME CAN BE SPLIT BETWEEN THE TWO PARTIES”. The rest of my comment can remain unchanged…BETTER?!
I’m not sure if you saw this morning or if it aired in your area. However, Inez was on the Channel 5 Morning News for New York and she indicated that she knew that her clothes were provocative and that she can not help it that she is sexy and she is not going to make herself ugly to get her work done. Also, that the players should just do their jobs as she is doing her regardless if she is sexy. In the end, I agree with you, she kind of asked for it period! And the ridicule of Clinton Portis is stupid. She walked into a locker room of naked men, knowing she was “sexy” so ….
So they should act like they have a damn brain and act appropriately until she leaves. Is it really asking too much that dudes just shut the hell up and be happy that they get to see an ass instead of it being hidden under a burkha?
Do you really think they would have found her less attractive in a nice tailored suit? I doubt it. Her ass couldn’t be hidden unless it was under a tent.
So they should act like they have a damn brain and act appropriately until she leaves
I mean seriously!
I most certainly agree with the matter! She should’ve dressed the part, what the heck did she think would happen. Not gay, but she got a “black girl booty” in those jeans and surely that would get the attention that she prolly wasn’t looking for. She was a slab of ribs in the lions den! Just what was she thinking?
thats the thing: i dont think she has a particularly big butt. she’s curvy with a tiny waist, but she’s wearing the type of jeans that are intentionally cut to announce every single one of you assets
“i dont think she has a particularly big butt.”
say what?
it’s pretty d@mn round.
She does have nice behind for realz. It should have been in a pants suit but it is nice.
Watchumean, her butt isn’t big? It looks like her booty is eating her pants.
I don’t agree. This is another example of men trying to control the behavior of women. Was it wise for her to dress that way if she wanted to be taken seriously as a reporter? No. But why is it our first reaction as a society is to make sure that she change her behavior instead of the men being respectful and not being disrespectful and chauvinistic. They knew she was a reporter when she walked in there, so There is no way you can justify their reaction.
ITA with this…
That men will be men b.s. will not fly
here here.
I think what Champ was trying to say is not everyone who cries victimization is a victim and that at some point, personal accountability has to come into play.
Were the men wrong for harrassing her? Of course. They are professionals and should behave professionally. But are they the only ones at fault here? I don’t think so. In a professional setting you come professionally dressed.
I ask you, would you go into bank and apply for a job dressed as she dressed? And if you did get the job dressed that way, wouldn’t you question your employer’s motives just a bit?
“why is it our first reaction as a society is to make sure that she change her behavior instead of the men being respectful and not being disrespectful and chauvinistic”
Big co-sign! These are grown men and they know that she’s a reporter. Treat her with respect and let her do her job. I don’t think she looks like a ho at all. Even if she dressed more conservatively, it doesn’t mean the guys would treat her with respect. I know from experience that men will be men. I have curves (top and bottom) and dress conservatively at work and still deal with men and their looks/comments.
@Leila
forgive me for saying this but it is EASIER to assert that the problem is with the men (and not you on any level) ,ya dig?
True. I’m just sayin that even if she dressed down a bit, she’s still an attractive woman with a curvy body. Walking into a locker room with the football players will still get her cat calls and guys harassing her. Guys think that women dressing in tight clothes are asking for the attention, but believe me, looser clothes does not hide curves and women will still get unwanted attention.
Let us also not forget that she has toyed the line with sexual provocation with football players in the past.
1. She allowed the Colts’ football players to carry her on their shoulders.
2. She showed up at a practice field for the Cardinals, I believe, and held a bicep measuring contest.
Champ should have listed these examples to present a fairer view of what took place here. This woman wasn’t some unsuspecting victim. She was compeletely aware of the environment she was entering.
I feel like this is a blank check for men to do whatever they want. “she was dressed that way, I couldn’t help myself.” Things like this scare me and make me worry for the future of women. Our bodies are always under the control of men and we have to walk on eggshells not to excite them…..c’mon son??!! They need to show some decorum and act like decent people.
This seriously pisses me off.
And what control is your body under? Seriously, miss me with that crap. Men aren’t controlling women and the way they dress. You’re a grown woman and you know what’s considered provocative and sexy. Stop crying wolf just because you got some attention. If men ignored women when they dress provocative then you’ll rant about that too.
THIS^^^^^^^^^^^^^
And anyone who doesn’t agree that our (female) bodies are always under the control and scrunity of men, then think of all the legislation on abortion. Hell, even the STATE wants to tell me what I can and cannot do with my body. While a man can rape a woman/child and do some time in prison (not nearly enough) no one ever says “maybe we should enact a law that after a first rape conviction we, as a society, should consider castration.” Nope.
Instead society is taught that we have to dress differently, behave differently and hell…even children are blamed when they are raped. Men though…there’s always the “well, that’s messed up” but no real discussion on how to gain control over their behavior by gaining control over what they can/cannot do LEGALLY with their bodies.
Also, if you want to take it even deeper, men bodies are heralded in our society. In the medical community, there are all types of drugs and enhancements in order to preserve “manhood” (i.e. erections) and libido. But for women, what do we have?
When men get testicular cancer, the first option is not to cut off their balls. But when women get breast cancer…that’s the first thing the medical community advocates. When women get cervical cancer, the first line of defense is to advocate a hysterectomy. Why? We don’t have any comparable situations that men have to go through regarding their bodies and what is considerd the essence of them. But, as women we are often reduced to body parts, and that’s in large part to how MEN view us….men in the medical community, men in society, men in the church, etc.
So, for anyone who thinks women’s bodies aren’t a subject of control, be it conscious or unconscious, needs only to sit down with a woman and ask what her experience has been in this regard.
Now…this woman in question didn’t have on anything that was inappropriate. She had on jeans and a shirt. Tight? Yeah, but she’s been doing this for 9 years and never had this type of issue before. Also, I’m sure she could have walked in wearing a 3 piece suit and some dude would have said something. So, while she “could” dress differently, it’s not as if she walked up in there wearing a halter dress and 5 inch clear heels.
So, ho’s uniform? Hardly! You missed the mark on that one Champ.
“Now…this woman in question didn’t have on anything that was inappropriate.”
the fact that you’re able to put coherent sentences together tells me you don’t really believe that statement. there’s no way in hell you can be obviously intelligent and still feel she was dressed in an inappropriate manner. none.
it feels like your argument is based more on “anti-oppressive” principle instead of common sense
Champ, she didn’t have on anything inappropriate. Albeit, her cleavage was out and her jeans were tight. And, I’ll admit…it wouldn’t be my first choice of clothing for the men’s locker room interview. But honestly, what she wore was dressed down for the type of stuff I’ve seen of her via pictures.
That’s my opinion. And what I wrote upthread was directed at those who don’t think women’s bodies are always in a constant state of “control” by the masses. It is and because you chose not to address it, I’m sure you know in some respect it’s true.
And what I wrote upthread was directed at those who don’t think women’s bodies are always in a constant state of “control” by the masses. It is and because you chose not to address it, I’m sure you know in some respect it’s true.
i didn’t comment on it because i dont think it’s really applicable in this situation. plus, your statements aren’t leaving any room for nuance or gray. is it true that women are routinely objectified? Yes. Is it true that in this particular instance, this particular woman dressed in a manner that was inappropriate for her occupation and the setting? Yes
“And anyone who doesn’t agree that our (female) bodies are always under the control and scrunity of men, then think of all the legislation on abortion. Hell, even the STATE wants to tell me what I can and cannot do with my body.”
I think everything has a consequence. Every action has a reaction. It’s like, if you go to work with a skirt that barely grazes your cooch to corporate america, best believe you’re getting written up at the very least. As for her, no one is telling her what to do with her body. They’re telling her what to expect when she wears certain things. Doesn’t mean these guys have a right to do anything to her, because like I said, every action has a consequence. If they touch her inappropriately or continually harrass her in a way that is legally inappropriate, she can then take legal action. There’s this thing called a line, and if they cross it, it’s on them.
“Also, if you want to take it even deeper, men bodies are heralded in our society. In the medical community, there are all types of drugs and enhancements in order to preserve “manhood” (i.e. erections) and libido. But for women, what do we have? ”
If anything, this reminds me of breast implants. That, because what you have naturally isn’t good enough, you have to resort to outside measures to improve it. Nothing about peen enhancements scream “herald man parts” to me…it is the same superficial theme that influences people to tell chicks to get bigger boobs.
But, I agree with you that it ain’t a ho’s uniform by any means. Maybe that was exaggeration on Champ’s part…maybe purposely.
“When men get testicular cancer, the first option is not to cut off their balls. But when women get breast cancer…that’s the first thing the medical community advocates. When women get cervical cancer, the first line of defense is to advocate a hysterectomy. Why?”
When you say things like this it really detracts from any credibility you may have. When a man is diagnosed with testicle cancer, the first thing they do is remove the cancerous testicle. Now, he can choose to only have the part that is cancerous remain but it’s very risky because the rest of the testicle may become cancerous AND spread.
Again I say, miss me with that BS.
Y’know bro….I gotta say, I ‘kinda” agree with you about the whole “miss me with that b.s.” response and all, but I can’t help but to wonder….when will the attention from the whole issue of harrassment be turned towards the men? In other words, I think it’s safe to say that Ms Sainz had some type of understanding of what’s appropriate and what’s not, cultural differences aside. However, does her clothing choice really make it okay for the fellas to respond the way they did, simply because they are men?
Maybe that’s the whole question of the issue. I don’t think anyone is debating that the way one carries themself will ultimately have an impact on how others will respond, but WHY is it okay and “to be expected” for men to act like jackasses when a woman is in their presence, dressed in a certain way?
“When men get testicular cancer, the first option is not to cut off their balls. But when women get breast cancer…that’s the first thing the medical community advocates. When women get cervical cancer, the first line of defense is to advocate a hysterectomy. Why?”
From a scientific standpoint, you should WANT to have your breast removed if there’s a history of breast cancer in your family. This has NOTHING to do with controlling women’s bodies.
Leaving even a small portion of that tumor will more than likely cause those cells to grow back.
So…women should keep their carcinoma infested tissue just to prove to men that they have the right to keep their body? please….
“she was dressed that way, I couldn’t help myself.”
Exactly. And it’s even scarier when you think of where this conversation is taking place… It’s truly scary.
I agree and disagree all at the same time. You can change your behavior way faster than expecting a locker room full of guys to change theirs. It may be a cultural thing but would you show up to work looking like that? I have seen plenty of adorable pant or skirt suits that can still be sexy and professionally at the same time.
I agree and disagree all at the same time .
I’m with you. I agree and disagree……
Let’s not forget she WAS in a locker room where naked men run around. If I were the men, I may feel slightly violated. You’re a person of the opposite sex in the room where I shower, change and walk around with my pe.nis swaying around. I dunno……
Why are interviews conducted in the locker room anyway?!?!
Why are interviews conducted in the locker room anyway?!?!
Yes! This is exactly what I said down thread. I dont think women should be allowed in there period. Conduct your interview outside and let the men have some privacy.
“I dont think women should be allowed in there period. Conduct your interview outside and let the men have some privacy.”
replace “women” with “reporters,” and you might have a point.
“Why are interviews conducted in the locker room anyway?!?!”
Best question evah. It’s like “welcome to the lion’s den” and “oh yeah…act professional” o_O
Men nor women of the media should be allowed in the locker room. This is why they have media rooms, where you can conduct the interviews and ask questions. Every sports team needs to invest in a media room if they haven’t already and ban the media from the locker room. Period.
That’s just it. She wasn’t sexy or professional. She is just trashy. Her only talent is flaunting her body. This is all about publicity. It’s well planned. Why leak a sex tape when you can show up to work like it’s freaknik and get a week’s worth of national media coverage by claiming you were uncomfortable. Jeans aren’t supposed to go ALL the way up your crack. Open a VS catalog and even those size 0 and size 2 models appear more modest in skin tight jeans. She is talentless, but smart enough to know how far the “white woman down” syndrome can get her. This is something every woman deals with every second of every day. Every woman on here knows how to walk into that situation and get respect. The idea that latin woman/entertainers are just so naturally sexy that they just don’t know what it does to regular people is a joke. She has a publicist, a manager, a stylist a producer all telling her to play this up so her sexuallity can BE the story instead of what she is while she’s reporting the story. Because the Jets are not a story. They suck. If she was interviewing TO and commented on his abs, would that be harrasment.
@ James
Spot on.
AMEN!!!
I can answer why the first reaction is that she should change her behavior. There is a greater expectation of professionalism on her part. For example, even though we have certain expectation of children and their behavior with adults, we know that when playing games, they will play and joke and sometimes get out of hand. We have different expectations for the gym teacher. We don’t allow him or her that kind of leeway.
If you look up photos and stories she’s done with players, there is a lot of her measuring people’s biceps, sitting on shoulders, pretty much engaging in behavior that walks the line between being a professional reporter and a professional bartender. And you can bet that all the guys have been playing back.
Sure, it takes two to tango, but she helped generate a working environment where people relaxed the standards of professionalism around her. And so, like it happens every friday night, somebody or bodies crossed the line for her.
Example: You are a male in an exclusive relationship. You have a female friend who is interested in you. You continue to spend time with this friend, allow her to touch you, playfully feel you up, sit on your lap. Perhaps all of these excursions never happen for more than a second. She was only seeing how “strong” you were. She was commenting on your shirt and had to touch you to do it. Then one day, in all that playing, she gives you a kiss. And suddenly you want to put 100% of the blame on her? No. Like it or not, you are to blame. And like it or not, you bear more of the responsibility in this situation. You are the one who is supposed to be in an exclusive relationship, not your friend. Regardless of what you may think of people’s behavior or someone outside of a relationship respecting the boundaries, it is the people in the relationship who have the most responsibility for keeping stuff like that from happening.
You are one smart brotha!
All of these “let’s have these men be more respectful,” and “death to chauvinism” comments are a crock of shit for this situation. If we want to talk about the players being more professional, let’s hold everyone else to the same professional standards.
This means she would get reprimanded for wearing unprofessional attire that can cause unnecessary distractions and more importantly this means the men would be afforded the privacy in the locker room. They’re not in the WNBA locker rooms doing post-game interviews and I thank them for that because I’m not exactly waiting for the Diana Taurasi sextape to leak. Who here works at a place where theyre ass naked, but have to remain professional?…so no strippers read this blog?
I’m pretty much saying we can’t hold these men to a standard while not holding everyone else to that standard.
p.s. I want to be able to wear my earrings and sweatpants to work and have a kneck tattoo, but society won’t let me…because it’s not professional. How dare society for wanting to treat me like a nigguh if I came to work like that as opposed to the professional my creditionals assert me to be.
Actually this is more of an example of WOMEN trying to control MEN’s behavior. And for those who say that “,men will be men” line won’t fly, we don’t need it to “fly”. It is what it is. It’s not gonna change and it ain’t going anywhere. You can live in the world thinking about how things SHOULD be or you can wake up and come deal with it the way things ARE.
@hehe
hey knew she was a reporter when she walked in there, so There is no way you can justify their reaction.
so you’re saying its only necessary for MEN to change their behavior?? for men to go from being naturally visually stimulated beings, who are not only amped up on testosterone but also adrenaline after a game to just IGNORE the fact that this woman has come into their cave man dwelling in tight clothes? GTFOOH.
this and this are going to distract men. of course they should be able to act more professionally and try to control their hormones but why test the waters and tempt them?? THAT makes no sense. th
The exact opposite of what you said is true. It isn’t men attempting to control women, it is women attempting to control men. She entered a male dominated environment, was subjected to behavior typical of men in that environment, and the Association for Women in Sport’s Media raised a complaint.
To be fair to all sides, females shouldn’t be allowed in the locker room. Football players can barely control their conduct on the field, (look at the Jets’ penalty statistics from Monday), I wouldn’t expect much restraint in the locker room.
Perhaps she should switch over to reporting at the next Oprah show.
*standing ovation*
say that!
but let it be known, i dont agree with the idea that women reporters shouldnt be allowed in the locker room.
but let it be known, i dont agree with the idea that women reporters shouldnt be allowed in the locker room.
i actually agree with you. well, put it this way, i dont think ANYONE should be allowed in there, but just saying “no women” gives a professional advantage to the male reporters, who now would have more access to players and, subsequently, better stories.
Professional advantage?
In today’s 24 hour sports cycle of news, where every story is analyzed and then reanalyzed by hundreds of people, there is no more advantage to exclusivity in breaking a story.
If anything, there is a disadvantage for women with Antonio Cromartie lurking around impregnating them with his mind. Now Ines Sainz has to miss 9 months of work because Cromartie winked at her.
i dont think ANYONE should be allowed in there .
ME EITHER!!!! Why the locker room for interviews?!?!?! I don’t like people at work talking to me in the restroom. After a game, I’m sitting there taking a sh*t and a reporter runs up talmabout “What changes are you going to make to your defense next game?” I’ma be like “I think the defense should tackle yo azz and drag you out of here right now. Don’t you see me taking a sh*t?!”.
This is not an absolute behavior change, just behavior in certain circumstances. A locker room is a glorified bathroom, what if at the gym a women in a sports bra and tights went into the men’s locker room, it is entirely unreasonable to not expect a reaction from someone.
I’m all for professionalism but generally professionalism is asked for in places where penises don’t get pulled out on the regular… I’m just sayin…
“why is it our first reaction as a society is to make sure that she change her behavior instead of the men being respectful and not being disrespectful and chauvinistic. They knew she was a reporter when she walked in there, so There is no way you can justify their reaction.”
I see your point, but let’s beat this horse with a different whip.
Why is it our first reaction as a society to make sure that men change their behavior instead of the women being respectful and not parading her body in front of half-dressed perpetually horny men. She knew that men are easily distracted by sexuality when she walked in there. For all those guys knew she could have been a ho disguised as a TV reporter to get locker room access.
” For all those guys knew she could have been a ho disguised as a TV reporter to get locker room access.”
Hmmm. Interesting take.
women being respectful and not parading her body
And therein lies my problem… How is the way someone chooses to dress themselves respectful and/or disrespectful??? It could be called tasteful, it could be called unimaginative, it could be called ugly…. but disrespectful? To whom? And why?
our first reaction as a society is to make sure that she change her behavior instead of the men being respectful and not being disrespectful and chauvinistic
Bingo.
Maybe it comes from the fact that I grew up in a place where a woman does NOT even have the choice/voice to complain about ANYTHING… whether she’s wearing a burqa or not.. Slippery slopes are real… So if a man says that a strand of her hair was so blond that it aroused him, then what? What is considered “reasonable” in these cases?
“So if a man says that a strand of her hair was so blond that it aroused him, then what? What is considered “reasonable” in these cases?”
But see that’s the thing… even I’M a little put off by her attire and I don’t like chiks that way but when I say I feel like I know what this chick looks like naked I mean it, like “D@mn Ma put a towel on!”
A blonde hair?… a little excessive and I’m sure ANY woman would stand against a claim like that. This chick right here… I can’t even do it.
“They knew she was a reporter when she walked in there, so There is no way you can justify their reaction.”
Uh did they know? I myself like a couple others upthread mentioned they thought she was a cheerleader or something of that sort at first before reading the post. Yes. I agree women should be aloud to dress and express themselves how they deem fit without being objectified BUT we should also be mindful of our audiences…
Would you say the same if instead of it being a scantally clad reporter in a NFL locker room it were a white man walking ALONE through the most drug infested projects dressed in expessive garb from head to foot. Obviously, no one SHOULD bother him… but the odds of him being left alone PUH-LEEZ. He should use common sense much like she should have.
So a woman should fear for her safety when around some dudes because again men have no control over themsevles whatsoever?
Yeah, they knew she was a reporter. Odds are they know their cheerleaders and their cheerleaders aren’t standing in the middle of the locker room with a mike in their hand or some sort of crew.
I meant mic.
I know what you mean but I think we need to swap our way of thinking. You should be able to walk down a street no matter where it is. Fix the real problem.
The only problems you can fix are those that you control PERIOD. And I totally get what you are saying but let’s be real… good and evil have ALWAYS been as well as right and wrong. So you know that. So what makes you so much more special than everyone else that the fundamentals of LIFE (that good AND evil exist) should bend for you because you wanna dress SEXY or walk around in the projects in your new $2,000 suit. Don’t afraid to do you but we need to use common sense. Hold people accountable yes, but use your common sense people. You mean to tell me the ONLY place she could wear that outfit was in an NFL locker room? She couldn’t find somewhere else to “feel” sexy?
Oh and to answer the knowing she was a reporter statement I’m just gonna repeat what my man Caballeroso said by saying…
“For all those guys knew she could have been a ho disguised as a TV reporter to get locker room access.”
And it does happen people… TRUST ME!
Then she did a damn good job because no security personnel or player made a move to remove her so I’m pretty sure that at that point they either didn’t care or thought she was there as a legit reporter.
Who says someone is special? No one is saying good and evil doesn’t exist. We are talking about professionals in a setting where they commonly do things pertaining to their job. Acting in a decent manner towards someone is bending? I didn’t know people were asking for a red carpet to roll out instead of asking that people not do shit like rob or hassle someone.
I doubt that it was simply about her feeling sexy as opposed to her presenting the image that her station is comfortabel with her having. Again, look at some spanish channels and then get back to me about what is appropriate dress.
If this were her walking down the street I would still shake my head at the dudes but we wouldn’t be talking about the NFL looking into it.
As I said before, we are where we are now because we as humans can challenge and shape our society. In the past white men would openly call black derogatory names. In the past you could beat your wife and not get jail time. Is this one incident as bad as all of those things? Nah. Is it something that can get us started on the discussion about behavioral acceptance in interactions between the sexes. Sure.
@ Neila
I get it. In some respects we are saying the same thing. We believe everyone should be able to be themselves and not be hassled for that. But, you do realize there is a give and take? While I get that the Hispanic shows tend to be more on a “liberal” dress schedule than American ones, does that mean when a Hispanic anchor comes to an American sports event to interview American players that the Hispanic customs should still apply? Is that what you’re saying? That because a Hispanic station is coming into interview your environment that you should adjust it to accommodate them? OR should they do their research afore and understand the environment in which they are embarking?
Don’t get me wrong… I don’t think it’s appropriate for ANYONE to objectify another. I believe those players were wrong and the issue should have been addressed privately. To take it to the next level by calling it sexual harrassment all over the news and whatnot is just opportunistic and yes a great indication of her own lack of common sense. She is a woman walking into a MEN’s locker room… who is invading whose space and should plan accordingly?
I know that if *I* wore an outfit like that, I know EXACTLY the type of reaction I’m going to get. This woman knows better and should stop playing ignorant. Cat-calling may have been rude and disrespectful, but if you don’t want rude and disrespectful, then don’t put yourself in the situation. Playing innocent victim is just plain idiotic. Now, if someone had put their hands on her, that’s a different story
see to me if you start excusing the cat calling then the next step is a slap on the ass or a lil grab at the waist…i mean who’s to say the level of what she was “asking for”?
i can hear it now, “well she new her ass was sticking out in the jeans…she wanted me to grab it”
I don’t excuse any of that foolishness. I just have one question though. If you knew she were dressing in a provacative way did she really expect no reaction? She’s an attractive woman so I’m sure she’s been cat-called before and lol not gay or anything but she looks like she’s not new to male attention. Why fuel the fire simply because you can. IMO, that’s not very professional at all.
Exactly. And I don’t buy the cultural differences mess as well. There is a time and place for everything. I am sure she was aware that the locker room was not the place for that outfit. I also agree with another commenter that the whole “sexy reporter” image is her thing. Her network and management purposely market her that way. Even the MTV VJs back in the day (LaLa, Vanessa, ect…) would wear appropriate outfits when doing sports interviews such as jeans and a jersey. That skin-tight Papaya/Wet Seal outfit was definitely chosen on purpose, and was not work place appropriate.
“see to me if you start excusing the cat calling then the next step is a slap on the ass or a lil grab at the waist…i mean who’s to say the level of what she was “asking for”? i can hear it now, “well she new her ass was sticking out in the jeans…she wanted me to grab it”
Cat-calling: Freedom of speech
A$S Slapping: Assault & Battery
Respectfully disagree.
She wasn’t wearing daisy dukes or a mini dress. She was wearing jeans and a shirt. She happens to be a curvy woman so naturally, her clothes are going to fit more snug (plus, most women’s clothing is made to fit tight nowadays so you’d be hard-pressed to find jeans that didn’t fit like that).
She was a woman just doing her job. She didn’t asked to be catcalled.
Besides, even if she was wearing daisy dukes, the men could have looked and talked among themseles but they crossed the line when they began to openly harass her. Not cool.
If you are “curvy,” you need to buy a bigger size.
And I strongly disagree with the idea that most clothing is made to fit that tightly. You’d be hard-pressed to find jeans that didn’t fit like that?
oldnavy.com
levis.com
No, ma’am.
MUCH easier said than done when you are skinny with DDs. And even if that wasn’t the case, honesty, you shouldn’t have to wear baggy-ass clothes to avoid being sexually harassed. She wasn’t dressed like a hooker and these men knew that she was there to do a job. It’s not as though they mistook her for a groupie or anything like that so it’s sad that people really want to give these men a pass. Its patheric, especially coming women. (Not saying that YOU are pathetic, the situation is.)
Personally, it doesn’t matter what she wore, the players should have kept their comments to themselves. But I guess for alot of people, only male athletes are allowed to wear tight pants (and butt pads) and still get respect.
What do your breasts have to do with wearing painted-on jeans? Sweetheart, no. Wearing properly-fitting clothing that will allow your vagina some degree of ventilation is NOT the same as wearing “baggy” clothing.
Not only was she dressed like a hooker, she was dressed like a 1980s hooker.
You dress for your occasion. Football players wear their uniform to be prepared to play football. She should have worn hers. Social markers exist for a reason. Certain dress and behavior invites certain attention. This is common sense, and you need to stop making excuses for this tacky woman.
CO-SIGN!!!
@Jen
lmao you. are. the. best.
SAY THAT SAY THAT!!
if you work in a male dominated industry and you are a woman with curves you have to wear looser clothing to work.
period.
there’s no reason she should be wearing jeans that she has to jump up and down to get in in that environment.
lmfao @ “jump up and down to get in”
Dayum, this is truth.
“honesty [sic], you shouldn’t have to wear baggy-ass clothes to avoid being sexually harassed.”
True, and you shouldn’t have to worry about a harrassment charge for exercising free speech.
Co-sign.
As a woman you know that all jeans and button up blouses are not created equally. I have the pair of jeans that are acceptable for work on casual Friday and I have a completely different pair that I wear out with my girls on Friday night. The same goes with a button up top.
Exactly. Perfect example, if she wanted to wear denim to work, TROUSER JEANS would have been a more professional option. And as far as the cultural difference in dress that people are talking about, would you go to visit a Muslim country in hot pants and a tank top? There’s no way she’s dumb enough to not know what a professional journalist wears by the standards of US culture. I don’t care if they wear pasties and thongs where she is from. When in Rome…
@Yonnie 3000
inDEED
@Dudette, agreed.
And WOW on the comments. *smh*…
Thank You. I guess you can’t win em all.
Wow, I usually agree with you but I think you’re wrong on this one, Champ. She is dressed in jeans and a t-shirt. That is the kind of outfit women go out to walk the dog in, not walk to the club. The only thing she is guilty of is having a good body. Are you suggesting that all women who look good have the obligation to dress in a burka in order to not be harassed? Sorry, no. Not fair.
@Ellad
ITA with everything you wrote.
She doesn’t have to go to the extreme of completely covering herself up, but there are clothing options out there that wouldn’t have shown off all the goodies. She could have worn looser jeans for one. You can still look good in clothes that aren’t as tight as the ones she had on.
That is the kind of outfit women go out to walk the dog in, not walk to the club.
she’s not walking her dog, though. she’s at work in a locker room with 50 half naked men.
and, as far as your other point, there’s a happy medium between a burka and clothes that have been painted on
1. She’s asking them to behave professionally when she has not done the same. I can’t think of any job (outside of stripping & prostitution) where having your cleavage exposed, and your jeans buckling tight is ok. You were unprofessional, and so were they.
2. Her dressing provocatively does NOT give them the right to grope or molest her. They didn’t, they cat-called. That’s not professional either, but the way she chose to dress makes me think she wanted them to talk about and/or flirt with her.
3. She’s not going to make herself ugly? Girl, good day. Plenty of women look attractive AND professional. You looked like a prostitute.
co-sign
When is the last time you guys saw a prostitute because she was wearing eons more clothes than a pros. Women wear clothes like that everyday and all the newscasters on her channel dress the same way and they are reporting all over the united states. She wasn’t in coochie cutters with exposed nipples she was in jeans and a tshirt or blouse. Idk,,,,this stuff makes me think about how backwards we still are as a society and how men are allowed to act a fool if a woman is “too” provocative.
actually some of us believe we are progressive realists. i think i addressed some of what you wrote in my reply to Legitimate soul. all i am basically saying is to be fair if we are going to ask the men to be professional should we not ask her to do the same?
Everyone saying she was dressed fine, let me ask you something. Would you yourself go to work dressed in jeans that tight?
Anatomical sales associates are versatile these days.
Yes, regular women wear jeans and a t-shirt, BUT not too many women go into a professional setting with clear “i can’t wear no draws with deez” jeans on and a “waitin for the water to fall” shirt on.
You can’t expect the same level of professionalism if that’s not what you’re presenting.
That’s like a male coming in with tight slacks, no shirt and a tie on to interview women at a WNBA game. Is he dressed? Yes. Is he dressed properly for his task? No.
It’s like my daddy always says “Know what you’re sayin with your appearance before you go somewhere.”
dangerous subject but interesting.
I will comment by sharing a story from my past.
I was sexually assaulted by a close friend in college. me and my girls used to kick it with a group of guys and get f!cked up. it was normally after a party and of course me being young, in college, we would drink to excess.
i knew this guy liked me, he had made advances before here and there…. well on this nite me the girls and the guys were kicking it again… we drank and drank till he and i were the last ones standing. long story short i was f!cked up. i passed out. when I awakened i was in another room, half clothed. I remember bits and pieces of what happened. I was ashamed, embarrassed violated.
years later the friend called, after recently being saved he wanted to come clean and ask for forgiveness….
after that time I went through several state. denial, anger, regret….and even now, i still deal with these feelings,,, the devestation i felt at my trust being betrayed and my body being violated by someone so close to me.
but I learned from that. I learned that it is my responsibility not to be an “easy target”. I willl teach my daughter the same. No I dont think it is my fault, no i dont think i deserved it.. but I do think more responsible behavior on my part could have prevented such a life altering event.
Thank you for sharing your story. Instead of making the responsibly fall on women not to be targets maybe we as a society should educate men not to target women.
@hehe
Thank you for sharing your story. Instead of making the responsibly fall on women not to be targets maybe we as a society should educate men not to target women.
the point is we have to do BOTH. In self defense class the first thing they teach is how to prevent yourself from being a TARGET.
thats the first line of defense.
again these are grown men, as was my friend. drunk or not he made a decision and is solely responsible for his actions.
I also made a decision that night.
neither decision led to responsible behavior and I came out worse for wear.
so I could sit here and say. I can drink and get as drunk as i want to as is my right or i can do as I did and learn.
hey its probably not the best idea to drink to the point of passing out.. anywhere
the latter doesnt mean I deserved what happened, or that i was asking for it. the two arent mutually exclusive..
I too am a rape victim but I look at thing another way. instead of “not making myself a target” men should know that I am not their property to use as a tool for their gratification and control. This man should know that it is not ok to harass or rape me in any situation drunk or sober.
If a man crawls through your window is it partially your fault for leaving your window open cuz it’s hot? Hell no! It took a lot for me to realize that I was not at fault for walking home alone at night, he was the sole party to blame and until all men realize that women aren’t public property we all walk around with targets on our backs regardless of the situation.
Please don’t think I’m like e-stalking you. I’m really not trying to. lol
Thank you for sharing your story as well. And while there is no excuse for what you went through, walking alone at night as a woman is just not safe generally. There are a myriad of other things that could have happened. And while none of those would be excusable either, we must realize the world we live in is not just or ideal. To use The Champ’s analogy, while I should have the freedom to walk through any part of town wearing whatever I feel like wearing, the reality is that this is not the case. And since I know this isn’t the case I should do everything in my power to avoid becoming a victim.
I totally agree with you (and commend you for sharing your story! actually, that goes for you too, shay!)), but when people say “try not to make myself a target”, I don’t think they’re puttin fault so much as they’re self-preserving. Like, I know for a fact men SHOULDN’T view women as property, but I’m not gonna wait while they magically stop and not try to protect myself as much as possible from being a target. It’s like not carrying a bottle of mace around while walking at night just because they “shouldn’t” do it. Yeah, they shouldn’t, but they do. So, I act accordingly. For MY safety. Again, not saying “that’s how it is” is excusing it…it’s not…it’s just stating facts.
Knowing what reality is completely separate from taking the steps to make sure that reality is rectified. You have to acknowledge the reality before you go about in solving it….
thanks for sharing this, shay, and good point below about self-defense and making yourself a target
i’m not too familiar with how she should dress in that particular profession but one thing i would ask her is ‘would you ever go for a job interview in those exact same clothes?’ yeah,yeah i know,but i think you all know where i am going…
and one other thing,(i think Champ alluded something close to this )my father taught me that as a human being, esp a female,you always put your best foot forward.now when you dress in a manner that distracts from what you are actually saying/selling/doing , it begs the questions
1)are you really good at what you do or do you need to distract people from the fact that you are not really good at what you do?
which leads to the next question;
2) if you are not really good, WHAT are you using to divert attention away from your flaws?
which leads to the next question;
3) what are you ACTUALLY selling/saying/doing?
now don’t get me wrong, these questions may or may not apply to Inez, they’re just something to think about…but the men should have been more respectful…if they thought she DID NOT deserve to be treated with respect , they should have told her to get out and come back in ‘decent’ apparel , like the gentlemen that they are (supposed to be)…
Your father sounds like mine. Careful, the blame the man for everything bunch will be here shortly to debunk and disagree excitedly with you and the way you were raised…
Bond.
LOL at you Bond,
i’ll get my bazooka and hand-grenades out…
I want to point out something that you said that will probably get lost in the comments. THE PEOPLE WHO DID THIS NEED TO BE PUNISHED. I agree with you on this 100%. No women should be made to feel unsafe in her own skin & I promise you many commenters will overlook that you said that.
However, I think she does play a part in her own harassment and anyone who sees it otherwise is being entirely disingenuous. No she didn’t “deserve” that but what did she expect. I don’t expect to be taken seriously if I show up to a job interview wearing a doorag. I expect to be stopped by the police when dressed a certain way. This isn’t a question of desert, its a question of expectations. And when you dress as if your arse and t!tties are the only part that should be taken serious, its a reasonable expectation that they will be treated as such. A person’s intent is made clear by a manifestation of their words & actions.
And I find it insulting that she thinks that she was remotely dressed appropriately for her job.
“…And I find it insulting that she thinks that she was remotely dressed appropriately for her job.”
I think you would be suprise at how many American women think it is perfectly fine to show up to work wearing a h*’s uniform.
“I want to point out something that you said that will probably get lost in the comments. THE PEOPLE WHO DID THIS NEED TO BE PUNISHED. I agree with you on this 100%. No women should be made to feel unsafe in her own skin & I promise you many commenters will overlook that you said that.”
And that they have already. Reading really is fundamental guys.
And I find it insulting that she thinks that she was remotely dressed appropriately for her job.
i wonder how other serious female sports reporters feel about this. i imagine a woman who’s gone to journalism school, worked her way up in her profession, and does everything she possibly can to be taken seriously would be pissed as hell to see someone like Sainz walk into the locker room.
I was wondering this as well.
Of course they would, but that’s the reality that we live in this world. The women who are at topping the charts, anchoring the morning news, and hosting the shows aren’t there by coincidence. They’ve got a certain look and appeal and no matter how many college degrees and skills you may have, if you ain’t got it….well….*sigh*. Look at the people who are the top (people being euphemism for men), and it really shouldn’t be a surprise that Sainz is where she is!
It’s also important to note that she wasn’t just “at the Jets’ place of business”, she was in their locker room. I acknowledge and laud the female reporters who remain cognizant of the dynamic between genders, and as such I have very little tolerance for women in Sainz’s ‘predicament’.
Sex is a contract, if you ask me. Sometimes the agreement to enter into the contract is made very clear, and sometimes it isn’t. Sometimes a firm offer is made, and sometimes it isn’t. The “sometimes it isn’t” occasions are usually the source of the allegations we see in the news.
In this instance, ol’ girl looked like an OchoCinco reality show contestant. Combine her appearance with the environment– men in various stages of undress, for example– and it just seems like certain players misconstrued this as a firm offer.
I understand the Champ’s penchant for tact here; it probably isn’t the best idea for a man to assert that a woman was asking for/offering the option of sexual abasement in some form. But I’m a woman. She was asking for/offering the option of sexual abasement in some form. So there.
I would also like to respectfully encourage anyone who feels that she is just voluptuous, and that’s why her innocent jeans and a t-shirt fit that way, to get real.
Yeah, seriously. That whole “I can’t help it if my body looks like this in my jeans” line of thinking is BS. Not only that, she’s small, so she really could wear clothing that doesn’t inappropriately accentuate her curves, unlike some people who cannot do much about it. Those jeans are TIGHT. I can’t think of many workplaces where that’s acceptable, except someplace like Hooters.
Also also, her back-pedaling on the brevity of the situation is does not excuse what she did. Tweeting about her feelings of discomfort, if they weren’t life-altering, was in poor taste for someone who supposedly makes these kinds of encounters a part of her profession. This is especially true of someone who claims to be a professional in the sports realm. Athletes, coaches, and franchises are careful to avoid becoming the next Ben Roethlisberger/ Kobe in Colorado / Chris Rainey; she should have anticipated that a comment like that would be taken seriously.
She said that the initial tweets about being uncomfortable were said jokingly in reference to being ina locker room full of half naked men. One of the tweets specifically said she was trying not to stare or peek.
I am going to say what has been brewing inside of my mind and I know my comments is going to rub some VSS and VSBs the wrong way…
I think Ms. Sainz is more upset with the fact that a bunch of GRINGOS and BLACK men were talking to her in such a manner.
I thought about that too…
I’m glad that I am not only person who thought of this too.
Even if Inez Sainz doesn’t want to press sexual harrassment charges against the NY Jets organization, but Sainz’s owners…I mean, her bosses/studio’s owners are going to file suit, I definitely believe it has to do with race, as well as, culture.
Just because their skin color and our skin colors are positioned next to each other on the Dutch Boy paint chart at The Home Depot, doesn’t mean they like/respect/tolerate us.
That f*cking postal stamp in Mexico had open my eyes…
I think Ms. Sainz is more upset with the fact that a bunch of GRINGOS and BLACK men were talking to her in such a manner.
i thought about putting this in there, but wasnt sure if it would fit.
Doe sshe have a history of being racist of which we’re unware? If she were really upset those weak Tweets wouldn’t have been her only mention of the incident. Various sides of the story are interesting enough without you adding something that doesn’t even fit.
Well, ever since I found out that Ms. Sainz did have no qualms about the catcalling, my opinion has somewhat changed. From what I have heard, the studio (well, her employers) was expressing their displeasure at the “sexual harrassment”, which makes me still believe in my “blacks and gringos” comment.
It could be that the studio is standing up for their employee while their employee just wants to defuse the situation. If they don’t try to at least pretend to protect her then they could be opening themselves up for a lawsuit in the future. They need to cover their backs and make themselves seem like they are on top of things.
She probably doesn’t want other teams and associations to blackball her and so she is laughing it off.
I think the whole thing is much ado about nothing. Sainz was on msnbc with Tamron Hall (my eyes almost popped out of my head with those two on the same screen at the same time) and said that the whole thing wasn’t that big a deal to her. Said in an interview with DeporTV that she didn’t feel offended. Said to Tamron and (and also said in an interview on Today) that she didn’t push the issue forward. Third parties put this on the front page. She also said nothing outside of catcalls and whistles came her way, which puts it on equal terms with what many VSSs probably deal with in everyday life (or definitely at the club, for those who go out).
I didn’t even see anything wrong with her outfit. You could see what she was working with, but it’s not like she wore a two-piece string bikini. She’s worn much more provocative clothing than that. Actually, over the last couple weeks I’ve seen more provocative clothing on ESPN anchors (especially in terms of cleavage shown).
Someone wanted to get their PETA on, and because of that Sainz has to deal with a situation she didn’t ask for – one that did not happen in a locker room or on a practice field.
You pointed something out that we overlooked, if she didn’t have a problem with it, it isn’t harassment. There’s no attempted harassment. She didn’t find the contact (cat calls) offensive so why should we.
Sexual harassment law doesn’t require the harassee to feel offended. A third party can actually file a harassment claim. It’s pretty cut and dry that they DID harass her.
And that law is one of the heaviest debated for a reason
Yeah, but that’s like saying “it’s not a crime if you’re not mad about it”. Which is why it doesn’t work like that. It’s too much of a slippery slope. Wrong is wrong, no matter how the victim feels about it. There are a whole lot of crimes that would go unpunished if that were the rule, domestic violence, date rape, physical assault, etc.,
The examples you gave deal with physical harm, if I catch eyes with a woman and grab her butt, one woman would call it harassment and sexual assault, another woman
with lower self-esteemmight respond favorably to it and give me her number. I would argue where physical harm isn’t done we have to let grown people make that decision for themselves.Sexual harassment is a workplace and educational environment issue. You can’t sue a random person on the street for sexual harassment. It really doesn’t matter that you think something is or is not harassing, the law is pretty clear.
tort law operates in exactly that way.
Furthermore, let’s say she actually liked the cat calls, how can you possibly call it harassment?
Your friend gives you a hug, i think its an assault. is that really assault?
Sainz was on msnbc with Tamron Hall (my eyes almost popped out of my head with those two on the same screen at the same time) and said that the whole thing wasn’t that big a deal to her.
damn, lol. that’s a bit too much visual stim in one shot
Type-A, alpha male type of men–the type of men found in spades on NFL rosters and staffs–regularly intimidate, ridicule, mock, taunt, and sexually humiliate other men as a way to assert their status (they wouldn’t be alpha males if they didn’t do this), so it’s no surprise they’d treat an outsider, an outsider with attire suggesting they’re weak, whimsical, and irrelevant, that way.
Truest words ever spoken. I interned a Merrill Lynch in high school (back when that tidbit was a definite positive on a resume) and you seriously would not believe what the investors would say to one another in the office without any fear of repercussion. Imagine if Luke Campbell became an investor instead of a rapper/pornographer. Imagine the horniest and most obnoxious {white} frat boys you can think of. Now give them money, a decent wardrobe, a nice car and a window office and replace “frat boy” with “frat man”–NO–actually leave the “frat boy” and you have some of the male employees at Merrill. If that reporter was offended by the Jets’ players, she’d be in a psych ward after 2 mins in that office.
Not saying that all guys who work in hyper-competitive male-dominated environments where bravado and stature can directly affect your job performance are hard-wired to establish their dominance over lesser beings and are all chauvinist pigs, but a large enough percentage of us–er….”them” are. Large enough that she should have worn a pants suit or something. And really, does she REALLY think she got to where she is based solely on her interviewing skills. I mean really? C’mon son! She’s hot but the little I’ve seen of her “journalism” skills aren’t too promising.
This is NOT a type A Alpha male trait. Maybe the traits of men who work in male dominated areas but alpha males??? I disagree.
This is NOT a type A Alpha male trait. Maybe the traits of men who work in male dominated areas but alpha males??? I disagree.
you’re wrong about this, smartfoxgirl. this is exactly how men figure out who is and isn’t a true alpha. I think you’re correlating “alpha male” with “good, upstanding man”, and they’re not the same thing.
now, all men dont do it as blatantly as guys in a locker room might, but men do subtle things to hierarchy each other all of the time.
“I think you’re correlating “alpha male” with “good, upstanding man”, and they’re not the same thing.
This is a ton of truth. The world would be a better place if good man = alpha male but that’s not how the cards get dealt.
.
*clears throat* I am not a male but isn’t the definition of an alpha male as a leader, one who oozes confidences and doesn’t have to pander as women more often come to him. He’s usually the leader of the pack and usually has his pick of the tribe. I think sexually aggressive behavior/comments wouldn’t come from an alpha male but an alpha male imposter. Alot of men claim to be alpha males but are really not. I know men talk plenty trash about the poon but pervs are pervs and jerks are jerks…let’s not confuse the two.
And here is what we call a cold glass of reality….
Many jerks are ALSO alpha-males. Again, contrary to what you may believe… this is what it really is. You’re mixing up the image of what many would call a “good-man” with that of an “alpha-male”. Alphas are “in charge and leaders”… that’s also an aggressive trait. You know how they talk about good girls who love bad boys? Those bad boys are often Alpha Males… now let’s put 2 and 2 togther.
Need I say more?
Again I’m not a man but I could have sworn I knew the def of alpha male originated a looooong time ago and may have evolved somewhat. I stand corrected none the less. Btw, betamales can be jerks too. Either way, aint nothing sexy about it.
“Although everything from tighter uniforms to a 9 foot rim–so more players could dunk–was suggested¹, we all kept coming back to the same answer: Nothing”
You know, I’ve always had a theory (not that I’d know anything since I don’t watch the WNBA) that a big reason the WNBA lacks popularity is because people expect it to be like an NBA game. The problem is that it’s not, and it will never be. The sooner everyone (including the league itself) realizes that, the less of a joke it’ll be. When they do stupid stuff like name all their teams like their NBA counterpart and do all kinds of other stuff the NBA does, it forces a parallel to the NBA that simply does not exist.
Let’s say they lower the rim so more players can dunk. Then they’re gonna start holding dunk contests. Then someone’s going to get the idea to have an NBA vs. WNBA in a dunk contest. Then we’re all back to laughing at the WNBA because Candace Parker can’t dunk like Dwayne Wade. Hell, Candace Parker can’t dunk like my fifteen year-old cousin, and we all already know that – so why even invite the comparison in the first place? The WNBA needs to sell itself with whatever it can do best, and not what another league does.
I never watched XFL games or the Arena League expecting it to be the NFL (yes, I actually watched the XFL, and quite adamantly at that). I enjoyed it because I realized there was no comparison between the two leagues beyond playing the same sport and I was fine with that.
(On another note, my friend works for the Dream, so I actually did intend to
watch the WNBA Finalstry to see her on TV.)i want to pose this question…
if she would have gone on an interview in those clothes and the job was not extended to her because her attire was “unprofessional” how many would disagree with this decision? why?
if she would have gone on an interview in those clothes and the job was not extended to her because her attire was “unprofessional” how many would disagree with this decision?
i’m surprised no one has answered this question. actually, i’m not surprised, it sounds too much like right
I wouldn’t disagree at all unless it was a Hooters she was applying at.
If you’re hiring someone you want them to properly represent what it is you’re selling. If I’m not selling T&A, then I wouldn’t hire her.
Exactly. Baddabing.
Being refused a job is not the same as being “objectified”…
I feel like I’m in a the twilight zone or something… Anyways.
Oh btw your prediction on Darrelle Revis of course came completely true. He got owned by the Jets organization the way he owned Derrick Mason this week.
he should have stuck was basketball (revis was an all-state basketball player in PA)
actually, on second thought, no he shouldn’t have. if he did he’d probably be playing for a d-level basketball team in bermuda right now
“Although everything from tighter uniforms to a 9 foot rim–so more players could dunk–was suggested¹, we all kept coming back to the same answer: Nothing”
You know, I’ve always had a theory (not that I’d know anything since I don’t watch the WNBA) that a big reason the WNBA lacks popularity is because people expect it to be like an NBA game. The problem is that it’s not, and it will never be. The sooner everyone (including the league itself) realizes that, the less of a joke it’ll be. When they do stupid stuff like name all their teams like their NBA counterpart and do all kinds of other stuff the NBA does, it forces a parallel to the NBA that simply does not exist.
Let’s say they lower the rim so more players can dunk. Then they’re gonna start holding dunk contests. Then someone’s going to get the idea to have an NBA vs. WNBA in a dunk contest. Then we’re all laughing at the WNBA because Candace Parker can’t dunk like Dwayne Wade. Hell, Candace Parker can’t dunk like my fifteen year-old cousin, and we all know that – so why even invite the comparison in the first place? The WNBA needs to sell itself with whatever it can do best, and not what another league does.
I never watched XFL games or the Arena League expecting it to be the NFL (yes, I actually watched the XFL, and quite adamantly at that). I enjoyed it because I realized there was no comparison between the two leagues beyond playing the same sport and I was fine with that.
(On another note, my friend works for the Dream, so I actually did intend to
watch the WNBA Finalstry to see her on TV.)Good points, but that’s not why folks don’t watch women sports. People, yes men and women, don’t watch most women sports because most of the women athletes, especially WNBA, look like they are trying to look like men. They wear baggy shorts, cornrolls, tats, etc. That’s not what people look for or find attractive on mass in women. It’s not a coincidence that women tennis players outfits are getting sexier and their ratings are getting better.
The things we look for in sports, aggression, physical competition, etc. are not the things society looks for in women. The WNBA will never be popular for the same reason Male figure skating will never really catch on.
I don’t disagree with that, and I’m not saying it’s even possible for the league to ever become comparable to a second/third tier sport in terms of popularity; I’m just saying that the league would benefit by not trying to front like it’s the NBA except with women instead of men.
i think both you and slickback made a couple valid points
i agree. that like you in a room with a fair amount of women and lets say lance gross walked in. without a shirt….he’d feel like a piece of man meat. she knew what she was doin. why doesnt she have a suit on? i mean her jeans look painted thats how tight they are. she shouldve dressed the occasion
“man meat”
this is a really funny term if you imagine paul rudd saying it every time it’s heard
This is long, because I got a lot of thoughts this. I saw her interview on The Today Show one morning. I think it should be noted that she did not file a harassment report. Other reporters in the locker room felt embarrassed for her. The footage, where the cat calls were obvious, was seen by a woman’s group that filed the report. She acknowledges that it made her uncomfortable and she is willing to go with whatever the NFL decides. I think she is just trying to do her job and when this came up, she didn’t deny the truth-that it was uncomfortable, but she also wasn’t trying to cause an issue, file charges, get paid of this or make this her personal plight.
Her actual clothes laid out on a bed or on a mannequin are not out of pocket. Nothing is plunging, revealing too much skin, made of spandex, latex etc. However, her figure is like that and how she wears her clothes or the cut of them shows off her figure. I’m not mad at that. I am not bothered by a woman comfortable in her skin or sexuality.
My experience watching Univision, Telemundo, MTV 3, and the like is that culturally a woman’s sexuality is played up. Even on talk shows, variety show personalities, news reporters, and the meterologists wear attire that plays up their figure (cut of suits is different, hemlines are higher, necklines are lower, etc.). The make-up and hair is also very different than some journalists and hosts elsewhere and of another culture. I think knowing that provides me a certain contextual outlook and I liken that to a lot of cultural contextual things that might be odd to someone else, but makes perfect sense within the context of that culture. What is familiar and exceptable to one group may not be for another. It just depends and is very subjective.
Now what is wrong with a woman’s sexuality and her being who she is? Is it obscene? Is it not? What crosses the line for you and why? I think what is jacked up is now her actions are called into question when she did nothing wrong. Although I understand Champ’s analogy and the Chappelle analogy, and in some cases agree with it, I am not sure I can ride with it on this issue. Muhfluggas couldn’t control themselves in front of company? Dudes gettin paid millions of dollars and couldn’t STFU until reporters left the locker room? I mean locker room or not, once the job allows coverage in the locker room that is still the work place and your job. Most folks got the memo of no sexual inappropriateness at the job.
If she is not against her employer’s dress code, should this be an issue? Also should America’s Puritanical nature be the rule to measure this situation? She reppin’ Mexico. Should she have to conform to U.S. standards? Plus, she said the actual player she was interviewing was a gentleman. The cat calls came from other guys in the background.
Her personal website and photos for a men’s magazine where she does have sexy pictures is also called into question, which is unfair. She wasn’t in the locker room in a bikini. I’m bothered by placing blame on her, because she doesn’t wanna’ wear slacks. Should she have to? This is not a corporate setting. She could wear slacks and the same top and still get the same attention. It’s the cut of her clothes, not really the style of them. I just feel bad for the lady and I don’t feel like she brought this on herself or deserves this. Yes, I understand how this happened, but it doesn’t mean it’s right.
*sigh* I’m still pondering this…
Total co-sign. Complete, 100%, unadulterated….particularly excellent point on the different style that Spanish-language TV employs.
I can’t ride for her, though. Google images is interesting.
Look at her here:
http://www.nydailynews.com/ny_local/2010/09/13/2010-09-13_ines_sainz_accepts_jets_owner_woody_johnsons_apolgy_in_sex_harass_flap_says_cant.html
vs here:
http://urbansportstalk.wordpress.com/2009/03/06/sideline-reporters-eye-candy-with-microphones/
here
http://www.thefrisky.com/post/246-dear-ines-sainz-you-can-be-sexually-harassed-and-still-not-feel-attacke/
vs here
http://www.opposingviews.com/i/touchy-situation-new-york-jets-accused-of-harassing-ines-sainz
There’s one that’s a complete mess, because she’s in an entirely sheer shirt with her bra completely visible.
There’s a reason most of her shots are butt shots. She knows how to work up her “assets”.
Can’t ride for her. Google image her and you’ll see what I mean.
Not saying she is asking for it, but she most definitely is playing with fire on that one.
@Malia,
I hear you. I’m still thinking this through and I can’t say I ride for her, but I don’t ride against her either. Honestly. I didn’t know of her before this incident, and the initial photos I saw weren’t too wild. I feel bad that the equal access women reporters fought for is now questioned again because of this. To be honest, I am not even against the football players, but come on, Son! STFU while the cameras are rolling! You can talk about her booty all you want when she leaves. It’s like the exmaple one gave of Lance Gross walking in a room shirtless. Inside I might say to myself some thangs that I wouldn’t dare express to Lance.. especially at my job.
For the record, how I carry myself and choices I make for myself are separate from my thoughts of this situation. I’m just trying to be fair and look at this at all angles. Simply saying she had a h*e uniform seemed a bit much, especially since she isn’t a U.S. reporter and I’m trying not to utilize the U.S. arrogance and our manner of doing things for culture outside of ours.
@legitimate_soul
“…but come on, Son! STFU while the cameras are rolling!”
Basically!
@legitimate_soul
i love how you think girl!
now , i agree with a lot of what you said and i respect it (you know i do) but i’m going to have to disagree on the basis of professionalism. if she is a professional reporter she should have at least done some research or asked other American reporters when she got here what would/wouldn’t be deemed appropriate in said setting,it is not mandatory but it is respectful. and i think that’s what professionalism is, RESPECT. if she was supposed to go to say, Saudi Arabia ,i’m pretty sure she would not have worn the same attire. now don’t get me wrong, we are by no means ‘puritanical’ and neither do we warrant or want the same level of modesty in terms of dressing ,but it would be nice to be given the same consideration.
i don’t think it is her sexuality that bothers people.
sorry, meant to say
i don’t think it is her sexuality that bothers people, it is her lack of tact and intelligence with her sexuality that bothers (me).
@Yayer,
I appreciate you!
You also make some very valid points. I had a long work day and after a good night’s sleep I might have further thoughts about this. I think the thing that sticks with me is are views of professionalism cultural too? I would offer yes due to business etiquette elsewhere (not like I studied it at length or anything). Your example with Saudi Arabia rings true especially when you see U.S. female journalists report from there and observe the societal mores. However, for that example I also think of Brazilian and Carribean carnival and the costumes perfectly respectable women wear during that time ( which I’m fine with, but other might think are too risque’). Yet, a celebratory event is very different than a job. *sigh* Good points, Yayer! I’m still pondering this… and you gave me some food for thought.
My experience watching Univision, Telemundo, MTV 3, and the like is that culturally a woman’s sexuality is played up…
Excellent point, darlin’. While her style of dress is her personal choice, I do think that this is likely encouraged by her employer, perhaps to boost viewership/ratings. Keep in mind that American football is not exactly the most popular sport in Central and South America. Down there, Soccer is king. Like football in the states, soccer has such a large, devoted fan following, it really is a seIf-sustaining sport (i.e., ppl will tune in just because). Conversely, American football in Central and South America is akin to soccer in the US. So having an attractive woman in form-fitting clothes on the sidelines likely serves to boost viewership.
I appreciate this perspective, but this girl should have considered the culture she was entering. She shouldn’t have worn what she did to work for the same reason I don’t wear booty shorts to the mall in the Middle East.
“…the same reason I don’t wear booty shorts to the mall in the Middle East.”
And then tell officers that you are American and you canw ear anything that feel like wearing.
This is why I rock with you LS cause you’re so level headed! I wanted to say “what latin reporter doesn’t dress this way?” C’mon her outfit is not a ho uniform. Tight yes and a def fashion no no, but do people really think it was the clothes? The girl is attractive. I don’t care what she was wearing, she would have gotten the same treatment.
It still surprises me when people are surprised that being paid ridiculous sums of money still doesn’t manage to change a**holes into prince charmings. Actually, I’m not surprised. Because I know the only people saying this are people who are not that well paid.
You can be sure that Matt Kuchar wasn’t going around saying “Man, Tiger get’s paid so much. Why couldn’t he be grateful and just keep it in his pants?”
And I just thought of an even more compelling example. However, it is as wrong as it is compelling.
It’s not even the money. They are on a job, they are in a professional league, and in many cases these dudes been around the press since high school, got thrown all kinds of tail in h.s. and college for their athletic ability, and don’t have the basic adult sense to STFU when cameras are rolling? I’m not mad they noticed, I’m not mad the spoke on it, but to the point where other press in the locker room felt uncomfortable to forward the footage is a bit much. Their (NFL Players) wealth affords them groupies and women after them, yet at the same time how can they act like they never saw rass and bitties before? Especially when you got atleast 12 cheerleaders dressed in less at every game?
I know Miss Sainz knew how she looked when she put her jeans and stuff on. Yet, I think part of how she looks is why she is on camera. I don’t know enough of this woman to question her journalism skill or intellect. Yet if her attire was a problem, why didn’t anyone pass her a memo? There is security, staffers, colleagues and other folks around these players. She gets a badge to walk onto the field. This is the first incident? I do believe how she looked was appreciated by NFL staffers and some other folks where they had no problem with it and enjoyed having a peek. All kinds of folks turned a blind eye when she worked all this time and because it’s biting the Jet’s Players in the butt they want to say it’s all her fault? Especially when she didn’t make the complaint?
Like someone else posted, I agree and disagree…I agree to a great deal with Yayer’s point of respect and professionalism. Her style is not my style, but probably fits right in with why she got the job and what her audience wants to see.
Loved your comments. Very well thought out; very well written. I’ve got nothing further.
If she is not against her employer’s dress code, should this be an issue? Also should America’s Puritanical nature be the rule to measure this situation? She reppin’ Mexico. Should she have to conform to U.S. standards?
yes, yes, and yes.
Hi Champ!
Why? She wasn’t admonished, barred entry, or told she was inappropriate all this time prior to this incident, which she did not bring to the forefront. Don’t get me wrong, I see everyone’s point and the nuggets of truth in these various points of view, but she didn’t just decide to dress like this last week.
You make some interesting points but I’m gonna bring these two up:
“Her personal website and photos for a men’s magazine where she does have sexy pictures is also called into question, which is unfair. She wasn’t in the locker room in a bikini. I’m bothered by placing blame on her, because she doesn’t wanna’ wear slacks. Should she have to? This is not a corporate setting. ”
But before that you also said:
“Muhfluggas couldn’t control themselves in front of company? Dudes gettin paid millions of dollars and couldn’t STFU until reporters left the locker room? I mean locker room or not, once the job allows coverage in the locker room that is still the work place and your job. Most folks got the memo of no sexual inappropriateness at the job.”
So, the men should behave like they are in corporate America but she shouldn’t? Yeah, that’s not gonna hold much water.
@ Eric,
“Yeah, that’s not gonna hold much water.”
Whut? It holds all the water. Bucket.
1. What she does in her personal life should not have any barring on this issue when no one has a problem with models, or cheerleaders for that matter. Saying that she posed in a men’s magazine or has bikini shots on her website is unfair because she wasn’t doing any of that at the moment in question. Plus, a whole lot of folks would be out of a job if judged for what they do off the clock.
2. It’s not an issue about corporate America, it’s their job. Non-profit work might not be considered corporate, but they are held to a certain type of decorum and can not go against harassment laws. They are professionals in a professional league that get tail thrown at them on the regular. The idea that men can’t control themselves and lose all decorum against any semblance of rass and bitties is disrespectful to men. So men have no maturity, control, or discernment at all? The very idea is ridiculous and disrespectful to men. I don’t see why them holding their tongue if they don’t want issue like this to arise is so hard to understand because no matter how she was dressed their behavior would have been wrong. If they did the same thing and her clothing was seen to be more conservative, it would have still been wrong. I’m not mad at men commenting on something or noticing, but time and place. Plus, if a person doesn’t have the sense to mind behavior when the cameras are rolling, they got more to worry about under that type spotlight than some cat calls. I’m sure most of their contracts and some of their meetings speak about them representing their organization once they step off that field as well. Come on now.
*All this is meant in good humor and in the essence of exchange of ideas.
@Champ
“diehard sports fandom is largely driven by sexual vicariousness”
i know this isn’t what the post is about, but that statement stood out to me. very interesting! i had never heard this before or thought about it, but it makes a lot of sense. u think that’s true of all fascination/obsession with famous people? i think it might be. i mean, it’s one thing to appreciate a person’s craft and admire his/her talent, but all these screaming, adoring fans with posters and tattoos and whatnot? guys who know every fact and every stat about their favorite athlete and never miss a game? there’s something else going on there.
i can get deep and sh*t sometimes too
i see! lol i’m impressed
Uh, correct me if I’m wrong but she wasn’t touched; called a nappy headed whore nor threatened with the promise of any physical interaction. No matter our opinions, this really isn’t actionable and should be emphatically dismissed with a popular yet fervently unanimous disregard.
Recap, she wore really tight clothing and got comments offered to her that would suggest that she was very attractive AND advertising and then she gets mad when she has to tell the World that she isn’t selling? I’m not confused, I’m offended by the sheer stupidity. Women that stand behind this outrage against NFL players for catcalling this ….. Should find shame and chew on it while sitting in the corner on their heads and reading the U.S. Constitution backwards in tongues.
I feel better
I do agree with Champ that she should take some personal responsibility, but I also have to disagree with you and your insinuation that cat-calling and other verbal harrassment isn’t harmful. It is. I’d tell you more about it but it’s early and the words aren’t coming to me so I’ll just direct you to a good article here
and while we’re at it, I’ll share this song that I love by Von Pea
urging men to stop acting like neanderthals. My favorite part is the banter in the background at the end – look at your mom’s a$$. Your mom got a fat @ss.” But seriously, is it too much to ask for a little respect? A little common courtesy?
Just one more thing. How can anybody counter the argument that the victim bares responsibility for their actions? How can that stance even be compromised?
Did North Americans bare responsibility for their skin color? No, lack of control. What about Africans? No, lack of control. A woman wearing tight, figure revealing ensembles? No, because women are absolved of th at responsibility apperently…smh, fo’real?
Wow – I didn’t read all of the comments and I don’t keep up with this type of news, so Champ’s post was fresh news to me, but… at quick glance it seems many of those that left comments missed the Champ saying “I can understand how she might have felt objectified, disrespected, and even scared” and “I’m not suggesting Sainz’s harassment should be ignored.” AND “whoever’s responsible for this incident needs to be punished and even suspended.” No where in this post does he state if she had dressed conservatively this would not of happened. No where in this post does he say let the men continue this behavior unscathed. Reading comprehension anyone?
His analogy about gangs is on point. His analogy about the inappropriately dressed man in the locker room is on point. His understanding and compassion towards her possible naivety regarding cultural differences is on point. He’s not drawing lines here. IMO, he’s simple trying to provoke active thought. Again, I’m still smh… did yall read the post?
As an attractive woman that has dressed every which way… I totally agree – your choice of clothing will not deter an ignorant man from being ignorant, but clothing is a form of expression AND your initial statement to the world. It ultimately impacts how others treat you. Is their perception always right? No. Does it justify their ignorant acts? No. But is that life? Yes.
Interesting topic…it will be even more interesting to see how each VSS feels about this…
Champ does bring up a good point, tho. Pam Oliver is pretty well respected as an analyst both on and off the field. I suspect that Linda Cohn, Robin Roberts, Cheryl Miller, and several other female sports analysts are too (questions of attractiveness notwithstanding). While I’m not cosigning the catcalls/wolfing, I wonder whether she would get the same treatment if she wore similar outfits as the women mentioned above do. An even better ‘experiment’ would be having her cover women’s sports: if she had to cover WNBA games, would she be inclined to dress the same? Would she dial down the sexiness?
I’m just sayin….
@DG
“An even better ‘experiment’ would be having her cover women’s sports: if she had to cover WNBA games, would she be inclined to dress the same? Would she dial down the sexiness?”
Interesting point
I respectfully disagree Champ. A woman should be respected regardless of how she dresses period. Plus it’s not like she’s wearing a string bikini, it’s fitted jeans and a shirt.She has curves and they’re accentuated by her clothes.These are grown men and they should know how to be professional regardless of how she dresses.
I respectfully disagree Champ. A woman should be respected regardless of how she dresses period. <— I don't think you disagree with him at all. Maybe you missed this part of Champ's post: "I’m not suggesting Sainz’s harassment should be ignored," and "whoever’s responsible for this incident needs to be punished and even suspended."
Also, I call B.S. on the whole "She has curves and they’re accentuated by her clothes." As I said upthread, I have the jeans that I wear to work on casual Friday and I have a pair of jeans like what this woman is wearing in the picture. They fit differently and convey different messages. There is a time and a place for
everythingmost things.I see what you’re saying, but I see young woman dress like this all of the time. I work for an IT company on the West Coast and the women especially under 25 wear very fitted and tight clothing. I don’t know, I still don’t see the big deal in her outfit.
You work at Oracle, don’t you?
Kidding.
It’s one thing to wear a pair of fitted jeans. It’s another thing entirely to wear jeans that look like your booty is eating them. I call unprofessionalism on her behalf. You shouldn’t go to work unprepared and unresearched (customs, language, procedures), any more than you should go to school without your homework because you will fail.
@Leila, I like how you respectfully disagree, then produce an example of a situation where you would agree. So, if she were wearing a string bikini, then you would agree with Champ?
@Leila, I have to disagree.
“A woman should be respected regardless of how she dresses period.” – What? NO, respect is earned not given. If I go to Wendy’s and the fry cook is shirtless, no respect. Women don’t get some pass just because they have a vagina! She’s a grown assed woman who went into THEIR realm. She should know how to be a professional also. They are professionals at Football, she’s the one being unprofessional. Their job is to play football, her job is to interview not titilate. That’s exactly what she did. Class A felonious titilation!
*Huh?
Champ, are you suggesting that her matter of dress was unprofessional for the field she is currently working in. Good sir, I would have to disagree.
Really, her matter of dress for her profession isn’t ridiculous at all. It’s not like there is, lets say, guidelines of appropriate clothing for a reporter. Nothing similar to an entire sport franchise demanding Grown-a** professional athletes to wear suits instead of sweat pants and oversize t-shirts to make their place of business appear more appropriate. And not just one team but the entire League. That hasn’t happen at all.
* sarcasm
Whoever did this to her NEEDS to be punished, that is a fact.
Although, her way of handing this situation is rather odd for two reasons:
1. She openly admits that the way she dress for that event was to show off her body.
2. She tells everyone about the cat-calls, but didn’t have a problem with it.
Whether or not she wants to press charges the players and staff made the entire company look bad, People’s heads has got to roll just for the public embarrassment. But for her to admit that she dress to promote her physical assets does raise a few eyebrows.
*eyebrows raised*
something is just off to me.
Just do not become suprise when she goes on an American press tour, talking about her experience, gains some popularity, become a feature in a Maxim pictorial (or Playboy Magazine) and ends up getting a spot on a popular American tv show, as a news correspondent.
I’m calling flag on the play. I really can’t believe some of the vss on here really don’t think that there is an issue with this woman’s jean! What is the purpose of her wearing her jeans so tight if she wasn’t trying to call attention to herself? I don’t know where ya’ll are from but where I’m from there is only one reason to wear your jeans that tight and that is too get attention….and some times it’s the kind of attention you don’t want. Yes the catcalling is wrong but dont deliberately give them a reason especially when testosterone levels are at there highest.
Them joints are so tight in 9 mths the baby’s blood type will be denim! It’s a slap in the face of all the women sports reports that have fight to be respected in a male driven industry…she done set a sister back 10 years!
Ok I’m off my soap box…please continue, no need to respond it’s just my opinion.
faught, sorry
‘Them joints are so tight in 9 mths the baby’s blood type will be denim!’
ya dun kilt me girl!
‘It’s a slap in the face of all the women sports reports that have fight to be respected in a male driven industry…she done set a sister back 10 years!’
high 5!
I don’t know what news you watch but many female reporters wear tight clothing. Even in suits that jumba is tight. The weather girl I’m looking at right now is wearing a tight skirt. Skinny jeans and tight jeans are the instyle. But this:
“Them joints are so tight in 9 mths the baby’s blood type will be denim!”
Kilt me dead. LMBO!
Them joints are so tight in 9 mths the baby’s blood type will be denim!
-slain.
It’s a slap in the face of all the women sports reports that have fight to be respected in a male driven industry
-indeed.
“Them joints are so tight in 9 mths the baby’s blood type will be denim!”
^LOL!
Did she deserve that? NO, but lets face it she needs to take some responsibility those pants were too tight, for a dressing room interview. Hell I doubt any marketer would go meet a straight male client or a lawyer visit a client in prison dressed like that not expect to be hit on by the client or be cat called by prisons.
Sometimes we as women put ourselves in situations we know we will be victimised and then get shocked when it happens, DONT PUT YOURSELVE IN A POSITION TO BE HARASSED, thats not to mean you deserve to be harassed, big difference.
LOL @ watching the WNBA.
Anyway, sex sells everybody and their momma knows it. Why do you think the networks employ some type of arm candy? Is it because women are innately superior journalists than their male peers? Nope. The networks are playing the odds. They know a woman is going to get the attention of the player of the game as well as the male viewers at home. Ines Sainz is in the publicity business and looking pretty is good for business. But kudos for her. She took the high road, kept her head down and focused on whatever her responsibility was at the time.
Oh an LOL @ watching the WNBA.
So when your new car is jacked because you have nice rims and wanted it to look nice because you are proud of it,its your own fault?
I mean,since you are displaying it that means obviously you want other people to admire it and of course people are incapable of admiring something attractive without grabbing and touching it. And since men can’t control themselves, they should not go to jail or be criticized for their behavior- how could they not behave that way when faced with something so appealing.
And when you are ok with making female US soldiers wear burqas in the mid-east because it is inappropriate and unprofessional to show their figure, face or hair.
So when your new car is jacked because you have nice rims and wanted it to look nice because you are proud of it,its your own fault?
Yes it is your fault depending on the areas you frequent. If you happen to frequent high crime areas and you decide to make yourself a moving target, you have no one to blame but yourself. No one told to put rims on your car.
I’m reminded of a Katt Williams phrase. “Did you know that from inside your car, you can’t even see them spinning b*tches spin?!”
Stuntin is a habit. We are a society of excess. Pride comes before the fall. All that jazz. Is it right? Of course not. But in the world we live in, it’s all too common.
1) I was waiting for this topic, thought it would be yesternight’s, and then when I heard what portis said, I knew it’d be today’s topic. Clinton Portis was sooo out of pocket btw. He shoulda kept that ish to himself b/c he KNOWS(if anyone knows) how the media is!
2) I am a womanist, let’s get that out there and I hold all genders equally accountable for what they should be accountable for. Ms. Ines knows good and well that she can be dressed more appropriately while in that locker room, hell anytime she is working, EVEN if she has a donk! so that makes no sense to me that she dresses as such b/c she feels as though dressing another way would make her ugly. She’s pretty. There might be something else behind that. And let me be adamant and say NO ONE, WOMAN OR MAN deserves to be harrassed, but a professional should also comport their self as such (Ines and the NFLers). And I keep hearing that that is how they dress in Mexico or on spanish television and that is some BS. If you came to country, worked in that country and you want to continue working, you would comport yourself accordingly. Is her Latina or Mexican (I don’t want to offend anyone and I’m not sure what she prefers to be referred to as) heritage compromised because she has on a skirt suit? effouttahere!
so basically I think that she is a bit at fault and the guy(s) catcalling are AS WELL.
dang that might be my longest comment. hope everyone has a great night/morning
Yeah Portis was a bit outta line, but I’d be lying if I said I didn’t cackle in the car when I heard the newsclip.
I deemit nesessary to clarify that I do not think Ines is to blame at all(in fact I don’t know who to blame if she didn’t see anything wrong). In this case, fault and blame are different (to me at least), she has some fault in the situation, but is not to blame.
Okay Naomi, I can get with your second comment. Is she at fault? Sure. Is she at blame? No.
And the whole “cultural dress” thing is indeed not BS. She works for a Mexican television station and she resides in Mexico. She was there to interview Mark Sanchez (Mexican American). And, where she is from they dress like that. I’ve been to Miami and seen women of Hispanic decent arrive at work for the front desk at a hospital in minis and 4 inch heels. Now that I live in mini Mexico (San Diego) I notice the style of dress for the women is very similar.
Just saying…just because we would observe cultures and customs of other places doesn’t mean everyone does.
As succinctly as possible 1. Not condoning the behavior of the gents involved
2. There probably is a cultural lapse involved as anyone who has viewed Telemundo can attest to. That said her naivete coupled with her “not making myself ugly” remark shows that she probably got HER intended results
3. A woman should dress any way they want without fear of harassment. Imagine she shows up in the white jeans in the top photo with the white shirt in her tweeted pic to Your baby christening or Easter Sunday service, or same attire all black to a family member’s funeral…she has the right to wear what she wants without fear of harrassment
Honestly how many men and women wouldn’t tsk tsk or point or “chiiile who she think she is?” Or take it further with outright confrontation. She has the right to dress how she wants without fear of hasrrassment she is also solely responsible for exercising decorum and apropos. So much for being succinct. I am Chivaslrous1
Okay, just realized that this is a bit long . . . my bad, lol. This is my third discussion about something like this in about a week’s time so I have a lot floating around in my head about it. Also, just to clarify, I’m not accusing you (Champ) of excusing their behavior b/c I see that you think they should be punished and the behavior was unacceptable. The “you” here refers to the people that do excuse this kind of behavior b/c of how she was dressed and/or blame her for it.
Is it too much to ask for these grown men to practice a bit of self-control? Did they temporarily lose their minds at the sight of a woman in tight jeans? Her being dressed “provocatively” doesn’t give them a free pass to “harass” her. These are grown men that know better. Since I refuse to believe that this type of behavior is involuntary, it’s safe to say that they made a conscious decision to catcall and whistle at this woman. I’m not going to makes excuses for them b/c of how she looked. She shouldn’t have to tone down her looks just b/c some men can’t control themselves unless it’s a part of her job to dress a certain way (and, clearly, she’s allowed to dress quite casual). And whether she was dressed “appropriately” is neither here nor there for me. Her dressing “inappropriately” doesn’t give someone else free reign to act “inappropriately.”
Whenever I have this “is the victim to blame?” discussion, I always say “Even if I’m walking down the street with my left breast hanging out, that doesn’t give anyone the right to touch or harass me.” Is walking down the street with an exposed breast a good idea? Probably not. But my “poor choice” shouldn’t open the door to others to make poor choices. You have control over yourself and your own actions.
It’s easy to say, “what did she expect when she was dressed like that?” and “she should have known better!” and things of that nature. Those things may be true. Most women realize pretty early that there are men out there that will catcall, whistle, hoot, and make other nonphysical (and sometimes unsolicited) sexual advances toward them for little reason other than them being female. And some women dress a certain way to attract this attention (and get it). And some women dress a certain way to avoid this attention (and some still get it). And some women figure out that it doesn’t matter how they dress, they still run the risk of getting verbally harassed and decide for themselves whether this behavior is “okay.” So, I have a hard time really believing that anyone is asking for it, unless walking out of your house
with a vaginais asking for it, lol (or they literally ask for it).I often see the example of walking around in a gang’s territory dressed in rival colors come up in these types of discussions and I admit it makes me chuckle. I live and grew up in neighborhoods with gangs (in a Crip neighborhood as I type). If you walk down my street in a Bulls jacket w/ red bandanas, bullets won’t random leap from guns and hit you. Somebody has to DECIDE to shoot you. They make the decision to pull the trigger or not. They have the control. And you wearing red, though unwise in this scenario, may have nothing to do with your gang affiliation . . . you could be lost, visiting, or ignorant to the current gang culture. It doesn’t mean that you’re asking for it. The other person’s response to your outward appearance is under their control. Just thought I’d throw my 2 cents in on that topic, lol.
My point is that no matter what we do, the people we encounter are autonomous individuals that choose how they will react to us and they are solely responsible for their actions be they justifiable or not. You can’t blame me for your actions when you DECIDED to act that way.
while i respect your position (and therefore respectfully disagree) i find we can agree on one point;
‘My point is that no matter what we do, the people we encounter are autonomous individuals that choose how they will react to us and they are solely responsible for their actions be they justifiable or not..’
it’s true, there will always be people who will make the decision (justifiable or not) to victimize other people,we can’t deny that. but as an intelligent individual,one has to also make the decision to take precautionary measures to prevent becoming a victim to these kinds of people.you know that they exist, help yourself out by not giving them an excuse to ‘hurt’ you! they are going to decide , but you decide in advance!
You’re pretty much so in line w/ what I think about the whole situation. Someone else’s choices, however “poor” they may be (and tight jeans are a far cry from tasseled nipples and a Borat thong, imho) do not give you the right to do something equal or worse. Your life is about your choices…you don’t have to let them be a series of reactions.
For Champ, and those who agree with him, I do understand where you are coming from. She wasn’t dressed as is commonly accepted here as professional. But be real, it’s not exactly club wear. And, I’m sure we all know that women could wear eskimo coats and still be easily objectified or harassed. Why do we get to decide that b/c she wore what she did, her level of discomfort is less valid than any other woman in a work environment?
I’m sure other commenters have pointed out that her attire is not that far off from the norm in Mexico for other women journalists/reporters. Her superiors certainly didn’t see anything wrong w/ how she chose to dress (although likely for the sake of objectification) since she has maintained this job. She even showed a picture of what she was wearing in defense of herself.
In previous discussions about this subject, I’ve been accused of expecting the world to live up to utopian gender standards…not true. I’m not arguing for a woman’s right to wear “slutty” clothes to the office. My indignation stems from how easily the world seems to shrug this sort of thing off (i.e., “boys will be boys”) as the way it is. I’m sure you could tell I’m going there, but I have to say it: not too long ago, black people having no rights was “the way it is”…immigrants ironically being terrorized by a country full of immigrants is “the way it is”…women not being able to vote was “the way it is”…
When did we stop challenging the status quo? Do you think the first few classes of black students trying to segregate some white colleges/universities all while being attacked and harassed had it coming, since they should have just gone to an HBCU? Do you think the people who died in The Challenger should have known better b/c people aren’t meant to go into space? I’m really not some “feminist” fanatic…I know these examples sound extreme in the context of this specific incident, but on a much wider scale, women are often times still very much objectified, disrespected, belittled, and ignored. One-half of every human being….the gender that bears the physical brunt of perpetuating the species…your mothers, your sisters, and one day, your daughters. For every Margaret Thatcher or Desiree Rodgers or Oprah Winfrey, I see about a hundred or so Kat Stacks or Hugh Hefner Girlfriends or Real Housewives. Many of these women weren’t born, they were created…out of years of misogyny, forced silence, and/or the weight of expectation on their backs (or lack thereof).
And what kills me is that so many men are ok w/ the “boys will be boys” mentality. We aren’t like most species. We were blessed w/ intellect and conscious thought, as well as a conscience. While their motivations and expectations may differ from women, men are not slaves to their primal instincts. I don’t understand the complacency of some men to have their gender whittled down to a mishmash of impulses and aggression that should be excused and avoided w/ precautionary measures. I’m not even a guy and I find that insulting.
*lol it really didn’t start out as an essay…it just kinda…kept coming so I went w/ it. I don’t think I got waaay off topic. :-/
Oh, yeah: are any of the VSBs commenting that she should have dressed w/ more precaution also surprised, insulted, or angry when women speed up, turn and walk the other way, lock their doors, or clutch their purses around them? Are any of the VSSs commenting similarly ever surprised, insulted, or angry at the idea or experience of being followed around or monitored in a store? Just a thought.
*and in case I came off at all humorless or closed to discussion, please know that I’m not
*
“Oh, yeah: are any of the VSBs commenting that she should have dressed w/ more precaution also surprised, insulted, or angry when women speed up, turn and walk the other way, lock their doors, or clutch their purses around them? Are any of the VSSs commenting similarly ever surprised, insulted, or angry at the idea or experience of being followed around or monitored in a store?”
Yeah, but how would someone rectify this? Take off your Black skin outfit? I’m not sure this is a fair comparison since both incidents can happen simply because you’re Black. Which is when we get most angry about it, actually. Like, bish, I’m wearing a Cole Haan handbag…why you following me around Macy’s like I can’t afford ish in here? Same with Black men. They could have on a tailored suit and will still face the “purse clutch.”
‘Like, bish, I’m wearing a Cole Haan handbag…why you following me around Macy’s like I can’t afford ish in here? ‘
*dead*
i lubs you Cheekie!
Like, bish, I’m wearing a Cole Haan handbag…why you following me around Macy’s like I can’t afford ish in here?
Lol! That was funny.
I know these things happen b/c of being black, but the comparison I was going for was the “precautions” these situations. I mean, I’d like to think anyone could see that it’s based in prejudice, but that doesn’t mean the store clerk/woman in the parking lot or wherever couldn’t argue (w/ agreement) that s/he was taking precautionary measures to protect the merchandise/herself b/c of the public’s expectations and perceptions of black people (ex: being violent, confrontational, quick to steal, etc.). This is something that we often find insulting or outrageous. So, I’m not really sure how it’s ok that women have to make certain not to “call too much attention to themselves” b/c of the public’s expectations and perceptions of men (ex: being horny animals who can barely control their sexual instincts, sexually aggressive, etc.). Of course, there are bad apples, and of course this doesn’t mean venture out blindly into the world expecting nothing bad to happen, but complacently saying that’s the way things are doesn’t make it ok and has never helped progress occur. That’s all I meant.
Oh, I get you know…I guess I was looking at it as comparing Black folks (who can’t control what people take precaution over) and men (who can’t necessarily control their groin, but can control how they handle said feeling in groin lol…how they behave). That’s why I thought it was unfair, I guess.
“Of course, there are bad apples, and of course this doesn’t mean venture out blindly into the world expecting nothing bad to happen, but complacently saying that’s the way things are doesn’t make it ok and has never helped progress occur.”
Yup, I agree. It doesn’t make it ok. I just don’t think that’s what Champ or the people who said “take precaution” meant. Like I said way above, it’s never that black and white. Saying someone should take precaution doesn’t automatically make the other person in the right. Or what they did ok.
Yeah, but how would someone rectify this? Take off your Black skin outfit?
Well, it could be argued (as it has been upthread) that you could stop going to those “fancy” places altogether if you know you’ll be discriminated against…
One can always find an excuse to do what they want to do… Shoot, the entire slavery/colonization bit was justified by a couple of bible verses….
“Well, it could be argued (as it has been upthread) that you could stop going to those “fancy” places altogether if you know you’ll be discriminated against…”
True, but as we all know, discrimination ain’t limited to just fancy places. We’d have to not go outside at all to not be discriminated against. We’d have to do a bit more than not going to a fancier place to not face predjudice often. Ines could limit (not erase) the objectification by simply dressing more professionally. Or you know…also acting professional (if the reports of how she acts with players are true).
But, then again, I’m not “justifying” anything. I’m merely speaking from this point of view because this is the point of view that the post is mainly about. I can go on a whole ‘nother rant about disrespectful the men are. Once again with the black and white. It’s not how life works.
It’s like saying taking self-defense classes to lesson the chance of getting mugged is somehow excusing them for existing. Them mofos still gonna go to jail even if you successful beat their arse. Because they were still wrong. Same with the FB dudes. If they crossed the line legally, them mofos should and will get punished if she chooses to press any charges.
That’s exactly the point Cheekie…
Slippery slopes are just that… slippery. You can argue, justify and excuse your way out of everything when terms like “appropriate” and the likes are uttered…
All of this.
“When did we stop challenging the status quo? Do you think the first few classes of black students trying to segregate some white colleges/universities all while being attacked and harassed had it coming, since they should have just gone to an HBCU? Do you think the people who died in The Challenger should have known better b/c people aren’t meant to go into space?”
As for all of this, I think yes, they had it coming and yes, they should have known better. Blacks knew integration wasn’t going to be easy. They knew the culture and knew that the 2520′s (some, not all) would rather die than a live a life side-by-side with them. It was to be expected that you would get harassed and possibly even more. Did it mean that the 2520′s were right to behave in that manner? No. Did it mean that the Blacks should have stopped fighting for what they believed in? Again, no. But to do something that bucks the cultural norm and expect to face no negative backlash or consequences is naive, in my opinion.
And those 2520′s should have known better than to go into space. Just like a 2520 always wanting to explore the unknown. Oh just saw a picture of the crew and there was one Black person. I’ll just excuse him as getting caught up in the 2520′s foolishness. LOL J/K But, people had already ventured into outer space successfully, so I’m sure they didn’t think anything bad was going to happen. And the more that I think about this situation the more I think that this analogy really has no relevance (like, at all) to anything dealing with culture or the like. So never mind.
“But to do something that bucks the cultural norm and expect to face no negative backlash or consequences is naive, in my opinion.”
Of course that’s naive. I never said it wasn’t. The point of the segregation example isn’t that these people expected to be greeted w/ open arms, it is that those people did things to help change the previous cultural norms, to the extent where a lot of people couldn’t imagine going back to a time where those existed.
The Challenger not being the first launch wasn’t where I was going w/ that. Actually, I don’t see how you could miss the cultural relevance. Space travel and the like has been met w/ resistance since long before its inception. We’ve gone from thinking the sun revolved around the earth to building space hotels…how could we have gotten there if everyone decided it wasn’t worth the effort? The point was that every space launch was meant to take another step towards acceptance of this as a norm, including the Challenger, the tragedy of which many who were against the space program felt vindicated their ideas.
If we are to accept that men are merely manifestations of their id, how can we move forward from this type of thing happening, in addition to the other things men could get excused for doing to women? I hope you realize that as innocuous or frivolous as this particular incident may seem, it’s only the tip of a heavily submerged iceberg.
No one is accepting “that men are merely manifestations of their id”. As I and others have stated, the men are completely to blame for their part in the matter. As an adult you are expected to be able to have full control of your actions. No one is excusing them.
I think the Challenger analogy is a hard sell just because it’s space travel and not human rights. A woman should have the right to wear whatever she wants and not be objectified, but no one has the right to go to outer space. It’s kind of like an invention that no one thought possible, like airplanes. No one has the right to fly in a plane. Is it great that we can? Yeah. Life, I assume, sucked before it. But I don’t see the correlation. Maybe I’m thinking too literally. I think I see where you were trying to go with that though.
But my “poor choice” shouldn’t open the door to others to make poor choices. You have control over yourself and your own actions.
THIS.
that is all.
” . . . you could be lost, visiting, or ignorant to the current gang culture.”
This lady was not lost. This lady was not ignorant to the way she looked, the appeal she has, or the way that men may respond to the way she dressed because that transcends culture.
I think the point was ignorant to her effect on men or not fools are going to behave like fools.
Perhaps you misunderstood. That quote is from my thoughts about walking in gang territory wearing rival colors, not the reporter and the catcalling. I was just tossing my opinion in about the use of that example. I was not trying to say that this woman was lost or anything of that nature. Clearly, she was not. I also didn’t say anything about her being ignorant to her appeal or the way men may respond or culture, for that matter. My point was that no matter how she looked, those men were in control of their actions.
Excellent Post, Bsquared8!. As a person who grew up in gang territories in LA, your gang analogy was on point too!
I don’t think she was asking for anything. Why do women who work in a male dominated field have to come to work in burlap sacks because men can’t show enough respect to keep their comments in their damn heads? I’m sick of people saying it’s her fault she got harrased since she wears fitting clothing. So she so wear those ugly 80′s powersuits and flats instead?? The implications of this type of thinking leaves me shaken, if I wear something thats tight do I deserve whatever comments (or worse) I recieve just because some dude has a since of entitlement? For too long women have had to endure catcalls, harrasment and abuse while being blamed for inticing men with our bodies. When we speak out against it we are villianized in or communities or media because we should have known better. Personally I don’t see anything wrong with what she is wearing, I’ve worn similar clothing to my job and so do many other colleagues at the 9to5. Why can’t she be fashionable at work? Does she have to wash off all her make up and put on a pair of sweats if she goes into the locker room? SERIOUSLY people this is not the 50′s!! This backwards thinking gets people attacked and then victims have no one to turn to since it’s “their” faults.
Why didn’t that other female sportscaster…the blonde white woman…I’m blanking on her name but I digress…Why didn’t she get blasted in the media when that stalker took video of her in her hotel room? Did she have it coming too since she was a pretty woman in the public eye in a male profession? Her harrassment was unsolicited as well and I am sure both ladies felt shame and embarrassment after their ordeals.
This seriously disgusts me and it shows that feminism still has a LONG way to go. I hope Ms. Sainz keeps doing what she is doing and people can grow the fcuk up and keep their cat calls to themselves.
I think you’re being too extreme. Why does it have to be an either/or? She can still wear makeup and be fashionable without wearing tight jeans and a low-cut top (or sweat pants and a ’80′s pantsuit). No one is saying that she deserved to get harassed. The Champ and others are merely saying that in addition to the men being at fault, she should shoulder some of the blame as well. To me, a lesser part of the blame, but some of the blame, nonetheless. As a grown woman, you (not you specifically) know what parts of your body tend to attract attention and if you dress in a manner that shows off those parts, then it would be naive of you to not expect any attention.
IDK the details of the other situation that you brought up about the other lady, but it has no relevance to this situation. I’m sure the other lady didn’t do anything to even remotely suggest that someone stalking her or taking video of her without her consent would be acceptable.
I’m more of a humanist than a feminist. I think that personal accountability is going out the window in American society. She doesn’t have to get unpretty to be a professional, but her rationale of “I can’t help it that I’m so damn sexy” just won’t fly. She said herself that she wore what she wore because she didn’t want to look ugly, and lets be honest, she’s a hot woman regardless of what she wears. And I think she knows that.
I can not stress enough that everyone is not a victim and everyone should be held to the same standard.
@JustCallMeTes
Where do I go to sign up to be a humanist?
If you believe that all humans should be treated equally thats all it takes.
lol
That and $10 so we can get t-shirts made
All humans? Even Germans? You except PayPal?
All humans, even the weird ones, the ones you don’t agree with and yes, that includes the Germans…they’re not that bad actually…not so far as I remember.
Tell you what, get some iron on letters and make yourself a “Humanist” shirt and you’re in
“I don’t think she was asking for anything. Why do women who work in a male dominated field have to come to work in burlap sacks because men can’t show enough respect to keep their comments in their damn heads? I’m sick of people saying it’s her fault she got harrased since she wears fitting clothing.”
Vacra, you are absolutely right. She has the right to wear what she wants, where she wants. Similarly, I, a Black Man, have the right to visit the courthouse – even when I know that a Klan rally is occuring there. I should be able to go to that courthouse on that day at that time and conduct my business without being called a ni88er or becoming subjected to a hate crime. HOWEVER, I’m also a relatively intelligent Black Man. I know that if I go to an area where Klan have assembled, I have placed myself in a situation where I should expect a negative response based on how I appear. I was in control of my action that precipitated their response. And while I AM NOT responsible for what actions the Klan take in response to me being there, I AM responsible for not taking measures to avoid it.
“Personally I don’t see anything wrong with what she is wearing, I’ve worn similar clothing to my job and so do many other colleagues at the 9to5.”
Just because you’ve done it does not make it acceptable.
“Why didn’t that other female sportscaster…the blonde white woman…get blasted in the media when that stalker took video of her in her hotel room?”
Because she was in HER room, not HIS room.
“I hope Ms. Sainz keeps doing what she is doing and people can grow the fcuk up and keep their cat calls to themselves.”
I hope that people will take responsibility for their own poor decisions and not infringe upon the 1st Amendment rights of others.
Yeah, its cultural. During an interview I watched with her…she said, that is how she dresses in her country..and the people she works for like for her to dress “nicely”…she doesn’t think she dresses provocatively at all….she doesn’t understand what all the fuss is about….
I personally, think that she will continue to dress this way…and life will go on as normal…after about a month..the media will have forgot all about her and this story…..
Question : Was she reporting for her own network?
If so, what business is it of ours what she wears? Given the culture of America, she shouldn’t have to dress like us to report for her own network. She wasn’t bothered by the comments…so why is this an issue?
Even still, I’m sure most women have clothes that are much more provocative than tight jeans and a button up…you good with people thinking you look like a whore? No matter what the venue, you’re still wearing the “uniform”…
“Type-A, alpha male type of men–the type of men found in spades on NFL rosters and staffs–regularly intimidate, ridicule, mock, taunt, and sexually humiliate other men as a way to assert their status (they wouldn’t be alpha males if they didn’t do this), so it’s no surprise they’d treat an outsider, an outsider with attire suggesting they’re weak, whimsical, and irrelevant, that way.
It is part of the Alpha male contract. Type B and others suffer from genetic inferiority.
What Alpha male contract? Champ lost it with that one. My father is an alpha male. My uncles are alpha males. My brother is an alpha male. My ex is an alpha male. My boys from childhood are all alpha males. I know tons and TONS of alpha males. I don’t know ANY man that would sexually assault/harrass a woman. That’s not a man trait. That’s the trait of a boy who has alot of growing to do. Especially in a society where you can get a woman simply by giving her a compliment and treating her nice. I think this is a b*tchmade trait.
@SmartFoxGirl
” Especially in a society where you can get a woman simply by giving her a compliment and treating her nice. I think this is a b*tchmade trait.”
Is that all it takes? I need to move to Miami.
Miami does sound nice.
It’s really easy now a days. Trust me. Take a girl to the cheesecake factory, tell her she’s pretty, then deny her and make no sexual advances…the poon is yours.
@SFG
“It’s really easy now a days. Trust me. Take a girl to the cheesecake factory, tell her she’s pretty, then deny her and make no sexual advances…the poon is yours.”
That would explain the D. Wade Gabby Union thing. I guess.
cheesecake factory? really?
I fully agree. As a grown woman you know what your assets are and how to highlight them and she definitely played up her assets. This isn’t Ideal World; this is REAL LIFE. Ideally a woman would be able to wear whatever she wanted and get treated with respect, but that’s not how things play out in real life. As adults we (women) have a responsibility to make sure we try to avoid doing things that would put us at risk for situations such as this. Which is not to say that we would deserve to be in a situation like this should one occur. There is no excuse for the men’s behavior as they are also adults and should be able to control their actions.
*Oh and 1st time commenter*
I do not agree though that she was dressed like a ho. Or that since they are football players they are any less able to control their actions than any other Joe Schmo. Now if she was REALLY showing off (as in you could actually see) the assets, then yes, she would have been dressed like a ho. But I know I’ve worn outfits like hers before and I’m not selling anything. And just because their job is centered around being aggressive, doesn’t mean that thinking and behavior should follow into every aspect of their lives.
she ain’t to blame…..
it is 100% the man’s fault – they knew better
I deal with this sh!t every damn day…..women know what the fluk they are doin….. men just gotta look past that sh!t….
not that it’s easy
A lawsuit over catcalls & whistles received while she was catsuited for the ho stroll thru their locker room? Frivolity!
Nobody groped or raped her. There was neither offensive touching nor the apprehension of it.
The men didn’t persist after notice that the comments were unwelcome. THERE WAS NO NOTICE. There was an invitation for sexual objectification.
If she dressed to attract sexual attention in a locker room setting, then she assumed the risk. They behaved as men typically do in the locker room environment. If she’s gonna dress like that around naked neanderthals with brain damage from contact sports, then she’ll have to take it in stride.
Ex: Mike Vick won’t prevail in a tort suit over being tackled during Sunday’s Eagles-Packers game if the tackling behavior was football custom.
Ex: An NBA reporter won’t win a suit for harassing hate speech if Big Baby compliments the reporter with “MY [n-word]!” as Baby strolls past. That’s just how those n-words talk. *shrug*
I wolf whistle and yell compliments at/to construction workers on sunny days when I’m at a red light in the convertible with the top down.
That’s not harassment. It’s just good clean family fun.
I’m such a f–kin’ lady…
I wolf whistle and yell compliments at/to construction workers on sunny days when I’m at a red light in the convertible with the top down.
That’s not harassment. It’s just good clean family fun.
I’m such a f–kin’ lady… .
CO-SIGN!!!!!!!!!! LMAO!
I agree with those that say this is a cultural thing. My coworker and I were actually just discussing Telemundo and other Latino channels and how blatantly sexist and exploitive it is. It’s interesting because even though we may not know of any physical or verbal harassment by staff against her at those type of stations (which…yeah, right, as if it doesn’t happen…), some would be just as offended by the way she’s being treated as a piece of meat even non-verbally. Just through visuals she is being exploited. It’s a different dynamic than walking into a locker room or football field full of ninjas, but in both circumstances, she is being highly sexualized.
This whole thing is such a fine line. At its most logical, I get Champ’s argument and his Crips example was a good one. Thing is, if you want to be taken seriously…you dress seriously. And while I don’t knock my fellow sisters for showing their assets, I’m really bothered by her defense that she didn’t want to “ugly” up her wardrobe. Lawd, my sistren gotta learn about that understated sexy. She’s a curvy girl…she has so much to work with and ways to be sexy without putting it all on your face for display. And…*gasp*…some men prefer this. Again, I don’t have anything against showing it all, but there’s a time and place for it.
Bottom line, those dudes are neanderthals and a-holes. They are definitely to blame on their choices. Saying she should have expected the catcalls is not the same as saying she deserves it. We walk around everyday “expecting” that something bad could happen to us, and that expectation increases depending on the situation we place ourselves in. Doesn’t make whatever bad happens to us any less effed up, of course.
This post makes me sad. I usually love The Champ’s musings. This one, however? I can’t go for that. Hall and Oates.
I believe this is a cultural issue. (Have you watched Azteca TV? Telemundo? The Italian morning or evening news?) other societies are more accepting of sexuality (the horror) and so she probably felt she was accentuating why she has and felt no shame. People should always be held responsible for their actions. If anyone deserves blame it’s her human relations dept.for not putting her up on game about the differences in NFl and this particular market.
Bottom line this is America jack. We forget that in some other countries women are applauded for embracing & playing up their femininity. They are allowed to curvaceous and sexy and flirty. They are allowed to be women. As many of the commentators above have noted women are projected this way on other networks such as Telemundo & Univision. America still struggles with being a nation of prudes.
As American women in our efforts to be seen as equals we downplay what makes us feminine. I’m happy to see other cultures that don’t have that cross to bear.
Also the fact that we call her attire a “Ho’s Uniform” further insults the flirty feminine woman in me.
Yeah I wouldn’t call it a Ho’s Uniform either…..
LOL, word. It can get MUCH worse than that. An actual ho’s uniform is much much less in terms of clothing. lol
The most honest post you have ever made. Thank you and well done.
Big fan of VSB….as you know…..but even I have to agree you are overstating this. The Jets players are called professional athletes…..meaning that the implication is that they are to be professional and be held to a high standard — especially during their work hours.
During practice they should be paying more attention to the game plan of their opponents as opposed to what “bad-ass” latino has a microphone in her hand. Your analogy of wearing red in “Cripwood” would fly if being a crip was a professional job.
If, as a pro athlete, you can’t contain yourself during practice from make derogatory comments at a fine female, than it is safe to say that they need to make a new word for defining athletes that get paid.
In keeping with your “The Wire” themes how about ‘Propositional Athletes’? “Prop” football players wouldn’t be held to the same standards I imagine
Your analogy of wearing red in “Cripwood” would fly if being a crip was a professional job.
*snickers*
I commented on another site yesterday on this topic.
I would not want first of all be all up in the locker room with 53 naked men’s *ding* and expect men not to act like men, I am just not even going to place myself in the lion’s den and then complain about the lion’s.
Outside the locker room is fine to interview someone, regardless how sexy my dress may be. Some people would appear sexy in burlap sack.*shrug*. Its just something they exude even dressed conservatively.
I don’t think thats the case with this brawd though LOL.
I disagree with your post. Something tells me had she come dressed in something a teeny bit looser, she would still have gotten cat calls. They are men, afterall. I honestly think the worst part about her outfit is just how tight her jeans are. She’s got all her body parts covered. How is this a ho’s uniform? And aren’t people wearing skinny jeans everyday?
As for curves. Look. When you have curves, it’s hard to cover them up without wearing a potato sack all the time. I have large chesticles and if I wore the same modest top a flatchested (or even a c-cupper) wore, my outfit would be considered lewd and unmodest–even though we are wearing the same article of clothing! It sucks that this standard exists and the larger chested and flat chested know the deal with how clothing fits. Sure, there are things you can and cannot wear, this goes for everyone, but women with curves have a lot of things they simply cannot wear either because they fit improperly or because society would have a field day with judgment, even if it did fit.
As for the harassment. I think just because she’s blonde, has boobs and has a sexy accent (saw her on TV) she would have gotten harassed. It doesn’t take much. I’ve been around enough athletes and athletic staff to know the situation and I am surprised she doesn’t. Not to say she shouldn’t complain, but this is definitely old news.
I will follow up and say I think she might be milking this a bit LOL. Only because. Dude. She’s from Mexico. I’m from LA which might as well be Lil Mexico. Do you know how many Mexicans holla at me on the daily? I’m not even the best thing walking around, but you can’t go damn near 50 feet without some Mexican trynna get on. And I dressed in potato sacks. It’s out of control. So, I guess this act of “I am so appalled!” doesn’t make sense. Unless she was borderline cornered and raped in the locker room, it doesn’t seem to be as big a deal as she makes it out to be.
If I wore that outfit anywhere, extra tight a$$ enhancing Miss Sixty jeans and a fitted blouse I would expect LOTS of attention, let alone an NFL locker room, I would go in knowing Liz smh *shrug* hence that’s why I’d be outside the locker room.
“Hyper-hetero” that’s funny Champ, seeing as many suspects as I do every game day LLS, adhering to the image of the league though I know LOL
I think you are missing the point. If you can imagine her in jeans that are slightly less tight….she’d still have a nice butt to comment on. covering it up doesn’t make it disappear. Her waist is still going to be tiny. I think the shirt is fine the way it is. There are some curves you can’t just hide and make them go away because they won’t.
I think you are missing my point which really ain’t about hiding your curves etc, its about being conscious of your environment.
Regardless of how I am dressed I would not be inside an NFL locker room with potentially 53 naked men.
Outside the locker room. on the field, on the sidelines, trainig rooms etc all of these are good. I don’t think I have ever seen Pam Oliver in the actual locker room *shrug*
WHY are we giving these OVERPAID CLOWNS so much attention to begin with? That’s the problem!
Two questions, I have.
These two sentiments have been repeated over and over with regard to this story:
1) “With this in mind, I can’t help but think she just got what she was asking for.”
What was she “asking for” exactly?
2) “And, if Sainz wants to treated professionally, she should probably stop dressing like she belongs to the world’s oldest profession.”
Is every woman in tight jeans and a button down shirt dressed like a whore? What does “not dressing like she belongs to the world’s oldest profession” look like short of a burka, a habit, or sweatpants and Birkenstocks? (Especially once people have concluded in their minds that you are “asking for it”)
You say that “This wasn’t a curvy woman getting harassed while walking to work …” but she WAS at work; and the cultural differences as well as the casual nature of her job probably led to her wardrobe choice. So while some may not feel it was professional, she was appropriately (if not overly) dressed for a football game.
So another question: If a curvaceous woman wore pants that accentuated her assets to work, does that automatically excuse/justify any Clarence Thomas type behavior?
“So another question: If a curvaceous woman wore pants that accentuated her assets to work, does that automatically excuse/justify any Clarence Thomas type behavior?”
Thats what I was thinking too…because my job has jean fridays every friday. We donate $5 for a charity and we’re able to wear jeans that day. So if I decided to put on my skinny jeans that day and a button down, does that mean that I’m actually paying for my male co-workers to harass me? I think if men were objectified and harassed in the manner that women were, they’d fully understand why their logic just won’t fly.
I would really like to hear the answers to those questions.
On one hand I think if you want to be taken seriously she should dress more conservative. Especially since she is around athletes. At the same time I don’t believe men that can’t control themselves should dictate how women dress. She should be aware of her environment. If a woman wants to be taken serious she should dress like it. Frankly some men are stupid and can’t help themselves. So women should always keep that in mind. I’ve worked with women that sometimes wore clothes that showed off what they have. This was in a male dominated work environment. That still didn’t give any man the right to call her out or make suggestions because you are at work and those women were our co-workers.
That being said Inez Sainz has a BODY. I need a woman built like that in my life right now.
LOL. Way to bring it home at the end, man.
Men can control themselves. Unless the man has some type of mental illness, repressed sexual issues, a victim himself, etc…he can control himself.
Mu’fukahs are very well capable of controlling themselves… Some just don’t want to.
Yup! Like I said below, if I’m in a room with half naked men all sweaty, muscles ripplings, junk swanging, I’m not controlling myself.
*hanging my head in shame….as I try to sneak a peek*
Co-sign. Everyone is accountable for what they do.
And maybe what they wear?
Just throwin that one out there…
That being said Inez Sainz has a BODY.
preach my brotha….
where’s my carnuba wax…..?
BTW I wouldn’t call tight jeans and a fitted bouse ho attire or a ho’s uniform, that’s an everyday outfit but I also know it draw lots of attention. Like I tired to explain a bit up thread and to agree with Liz it doesn’t take much to get all that extra attention as a womananyway and for some women it don’t matter if you have on a burlap sack LLS you are still gonna get that. You do have the option of playin it up or down and I think this brawd plays it up IMO
bottom line is she was dressing like that for attention, and she got it.
When did jeans and a blouse become a “ho’s uniform”? I’ve been reading this site for a long time, so i’m not surprised that so many VSS has taken this ho/hooker idea, and have ran with it in their comments. smh. I’ve seen that HBO documentary on hookers, and none of those ladies had on jeans. I think, perhaps, we are too quick to throw out these labels. Based on some of these comments, half the women going to out tonight will dressed like hoes, and the other half will be dressed like hookers.
Let’s be honest, she could have worn anything, and still receive the same type of negative attention. Seriously, am the only woman who gets catcalls while wearing sweatpants and a tshirt? Is that a ho;s uniform? Should I expect such behavior when I’m purposely dressing down? How about if I go out for a run, and I’m wearing running shorts and my underarmour shirt? I have thighs, booty, and boobs. Am I wearing a ho’s uniform if I am harassed by a men along my running route? What is a ho’s uniform anyway? Does the shape of a woman’s body make it a ho’s uniform? If those jeans were just as tight, but she had a flat ass, would we even be talking about this? Would it be easier to sympathize if she was shaped like skinny SpongeBob, and received the same treatment?
Just a few thoughts….
COSIGN!! You took the words right out of my mind as we have almost similiar posts. Jeans/shirt are not hoe’s uniforms. I honestly don’t know why so many vss are so quick to jump on the women bashing train with the men. Maybe it’s because we have alot of conservative vss’s? or maybe many or not attractive or don’t have body and can’t relate to being harrassed? I dunno but it’s pure rubbish. It’s not tooting my horn to say it doesn’t matter what I am wearing, if a man capable of these antics is in my presence…i will be harrassed. PERIOD. Going to the gym, grocery store, library, party, etc it doesn’t matter. It’s the shape of your body, your attractive level, your age, WHERE you are, etc. Good comment N.I.A.
“Based on some of these comments, half the women going to out tonight will dressed like hoes, and the other half will be dressed like hookers.”
You might be right, but they won’t be screaming chexual harassment the next morning.
If they did scream chexual harassment, would they be wrong? If you go out, and a man or men said or did lewd and disrespectful things, would you be wrong for feeling harassed? Just because you had on tight jeans? If you told your man how that treatment made you feel, would you expect for him to say you were partially at fault because you wore a ho’s uniform?
In all fairness neither was she. Another group filed the complaint, not her. Yet, she is forced to address it.
My comment was meant for Ivy St.
i’m not surprised that so many VSS has taken this ho/hooker idea, and have ran with it in their comments.
You know I should stop being surprised… but I fall for it.every.single.time… It’s a long road ahead, I tell ya.
God where do I start? Yes I think the reporter looks a bit ridiculous and her outfit is a fashion NO…are those booty pops? Anyway, I think her outfit is just too tight, but then again I’m sure she knew that already. Living in Miami, sexual harrassment is a part of my everyday routine. No really, if you want to call whistling, comments etc than I think that’s a part of life. I have been sexually assaulted (and trust I don’t count groping in a club) before and I was wearing a babydoll dress w/ leggings and I knew my attacker (most victims do). One of the biggest misconceptions about sexual assault/rape is wardrobe. Most attackers do not mention clothing as a trigger but more the environment/elements and relationship they have with the victim. Clothing has almost very little to do with it so please stop spreading these assumptions. The biggest contributing factors to assault are age and location. You also have to keep in mind that this woman is attractive. Sometimes that’s all it takes for a man to get ignorant. I don’t care if a woman is wearing a sack, if she’s pretty and the guy’s a FOOL, there may be problems. Since I’ve learned so much about his, I pay attention to my location at all times. The reporter is on a football field amongst football players! People love going on and on about women dressing inappropriately It’s also attributed to whats acceptable to the location. Tight, revealing clothes is the staple in South Fla…especially for Latinas. I don’t see anything shocking about what she is wearing and this surely is NOT a hoe uniform.
“Tight, revealing clothes is the staple in South Fla…especially for Latinas.”
Going where? Not to work, I’m sure. too the club, yes, to the store? yes. Not to a law firm. Not to an office.
Of course not. This woman is on a football field. lol
This IS NOT to excuse anything that was said to Ines.
When I first heard about this story I passed it off as a slow news day.
Then after learning more about what she wears while at work the first thing I thought about was the way women are told to dress when they visit prisons. They are advised to dress as plainly as possible because prison, a male prison, is an environment high on testosterone.
I’m not going to compare the Jets locker room to Attica but these are men of priviledge that exist in an enviroment of controled ego and hyper violence. Should they have know better? YES! After watching that horrid Hard Knocks on HBO I do know that the Jets are not a smart football team.
In the culture that Inez works in we’ve seen how the newswomen dress. Remember I said in her culture. Inez should probably remembered that she isn’t covering futbol in Mexico City. She was covering football in New York City. When you are in Rome… It’s a very old adage but it rings true from time to time.
Inez should take a nod from the play books and wardrobe of Pam Oliver, Suzie Kolber, and other women who excel at what they do and dress for the occasion. (In the same way that I as young man don’t wear my earrings or have my tattoos showing at work.) There are tons of suits that she can buy that would let the world know that she is sexy, but also here to be taken seriously. If she wants to be taken seriously. This is the woman who showed up at a Super Bowl press event in a wedding gown to ask Tom Brady to marry her.
So this is a big ball of wrong on both sides. A serious case of f***ing adults who should know better.
As an addendum what she had on was not “whore’s uniform” but it wasn’t the uniform of a professional journalist either.
I second that.
Having no knowledge of who she is, upon seeing the photo attached to the post, I naturally guessed she was a professional cheerleader. I also agree with Champ in regards to it being a cultural thing-but she’s not at home, she’s at work. What she lacked was class. No one has the power over the actions of others but themselves. One can choose to speak spanish alll damn day on the job, but I guarantee the interview was in english. Get with the damn program people. Why anyone’s shocked is what I’m trying to understand. A locker room full of half dressed/changing/etc athletes and the first thing they see is not her or who she is, but a classic Memphis Three Six Mafia’s …. yeah, you know. Both new better and will have to do better.
@ Mari, Hi
The interview I saw was in Spanish.
So this is a big ball of wrong on both sides. A serious case of f***ing adults who should know better.
and THIS!
(i feel like Bill Simmons/Sports Guy)
spent six months in Mexico doing a semester abroad. During our cultural orientation all of the female students were cautioned not to dress to provacatively as many Mexican men would see it as an invitation. We were also warned that regardless of what you wear we would be subjected to catcalls and whistles so it was best not to give them any additional motivation. Many of the cab drivers even had specialized horns installed on their cabs that sounded like catcalls. I said all that to say that Ines (uh, she gives us Inez’s a bad name and there are only like 12 of us under 70!) was in a sense asking for the attention and to a lesser degree probably even the catcalls. From what I understand that was the extent of her “harrasment” and that she doesn’t feel offended, so where’s the story?
Seems to me like she was just trying to get her name out there and succeeded. She’s a fame whore in my opinion. The only victim here is her va-jay-jay (I’m guessing the other “V” word put me in moderation) as I would bet my paycheck that the subsequently suffered a yeast infection as a result of wearing those jeans.
I totally agree with The Cham and his Crip/Chigaco Bulls jersey analogy everyone should be help accountable for their actions, but Ines and the players. And if she wasn’t offended (http://blogs.babble.com/famecrawler/2010/09/14/ines-sainz-not-offended-by-new-york-jets-pictures-today-show-video/) why is she complaining?
“She’s a fame whore in my opinion.”
^She might be, but not for this incident in question. She didn’t file a complaint a 3rd party did.
I couldn’t be a sports anchor. Because I would be the one in trouble. I would be running up and down that field cat calling the men in tight pants. In the locker room I would have been running around like a dog in heat trying to get a glimpse of some meat. I aint sh*t. ROTFLMAO!
I actually just did online harrassment training at work a couple of weeks ago. When I was done, I said I am 100% sure that I have sexually harrassed someone and been sexually harassed. LOL
“When I was done, I said I am 100% sure that I have sexually harrassed someone and been sexually harassed. LOL”
Me too. If there were a club of people who did this we would have an AARP sized membership. I’m kind of afraid to compliment some of my co-workers.
If your training was anything like the training at my job it was probably ludicrous with totally obvious/bogus scenarios, etc.
One of my co-workers and I kid all the time about being in a “hostile work environment” when we work on projects together. I take his compliments and comments with a grain of salt because I know they are harmless and come from a sincere place but we are both careful not to be too familiar with one another when others are around because our banter could easliy be taken out of context landing both of us in hot water with HR.
Okay V Renee, I love you for your entire 1st paragraph.
A woman after my own heart!!! *thumbs up*
I couldn’t be a sports anchor. Because I would be the one in trouble. I would be running up and down that field cat calling the men in tight pants. In the locker room I would have been running around like a dog in heat trying to get a glimpse of some meat. I aint sh*t. ROTFLMAO!
*je suis mort maintenant. (im dead right now).
LMAO! I love this!
This ain’t nothing but a case of male privilege and misogyny. Some of yall talkin bout she should be more professional, she got hoe’s uniform on, she’s partly to blame:
GTFOH with all that noise! All yall for real?
She is not a hoe, a professional hoe anyway, she was not at a hoe stroll, a public park, or in some married woman’s bedroom. She was in a locker room with a microphone and cameraman conducting interview with a professional athlete where other dudes felt it necessary to talk out of pocket.
It does not matter what she wore; men are never questioned about their sexual availability or job performance just on the strength of their wardrobe.
Oh, and the women co-signin the notion that she brought some of it on herself, yall should be ashamed. She didn’t ask to be disrespected– it’s a slippery slope to say because she dressed “provocatively” that it is okay for anyone to talk out of turn or to be potentially accosted by penises (or other foreign objects) against her will. I don’t blame her at all; I blame the dudes who embarrassed their organization because they cannot watch the hell comes out of their mouths.
Blaming the victim, a true victim, is always a bad thing.
“She didn’t ask to be disrespected– it’s a slippery slope to say because she dressed “provocatively” that it is okay for anyone to talk out of turn or to be potentially accosted by penises (or other foreign objects) against her will.”
I don’t think anyone is saying that what the players did is ok because of the way she was dressed, but rather all parties should be held accountable for their actions in this situation. Most women are well aware of their assets and Ines decided to play up her assets and it backfired. I am curvy, thick, well endowed, what have you, but I know how to dress in a flattering way without putting all my goods on display.
This woman is 32 years old and has been a sports reporter for 8 years. She knew exactly what type of environment she was going into and she should have used better judgement.
“I don’t think anyone is saying that what the players did is ok because of the way she was dressed, but rather all parties should be held accountable for their actions in this situation.”
Why does there have to be a “but” at all? Why do people feel the need to share the blame in these situations? Their verbal actions were disrespectful. Any attempt to say her clothes provoke those actions seems like blame shifting. So in one way or another you ARE saying it was acceptable and/or warranted behavior.
“But” makes an exception. Why should anyone make exceptions for disrespectful behavior?
I so heart Deviant… and I’ve missed you around these parts.
The thing is, she said in interviews (taken place after the infamous Jets locker room incident) that she wasn’t bothered by the sounds of catcalls and wasn’t uncomfortable with the players’ behaviors. More than likely, it was the other reporters (perhaps other women reporters, who felt slighted or were irked that it was a distraction from their own interviews) who were uncomfortable with the boorish behavior.
Wow. Tight jeans = whore uniform? I’ve seen it all. The girl’s ass is ridiculous, yes. But that doesn’t mean that the dudes couldn’t have waited until she LEFT to say, “woooo look at her ass,” etc. Even if she wore a skirt suit, her ass would not have been hidden. That’s a fact. And I bet they still would have made innapropriate comments, and people would STILL be making excuses for them. Ridiculous.
If dressing provocatively encites and also gives right for men to harass you, is okay for pro athletes to harass the cheerleaders on the sideline? Or are there codes and bylaws in place that bar the athletes from doing so? If so, does that make it an unfair stipulation on the athletes because they should in fact be able to be rude and demeaning since the women are dressed provocatively? Give me a break. If these guys were out on the street, I’d give them more of a break, but they were at work too, just like Inez.
I don’t blame her for them CHOOSING to act the way they did. You can look at and say things to yourself and others, crossing the line to demeaning and disrespect is on the players. And as I understand it, number 1, she wasn’t so much annoyed with the cat calls, it was other comments (which haven’t been released) that were more demeaning that she and other reporters heard which pushed it too far; number 2, she wasn’t even the one that reported the incident, so get off her back about playing victim. She was the one who received a call from the commish to verify what he was told by another reporter and since then she has been asked more and more bout what happened.
From the interviews I’ve seen, she’s actually tried to downplay the incident and gives just limited details. Like many women do, she’s sweeping it under the rug and accepting that embarassing behavior. Kudos to whomever contacted the NFL to voice their embarassment and disappointment in the behavior of the players, and that dumb coach who was throwing balls near her so players would have to go over there to sneak-a-peek. These are grown a$$ men acting very pubescent.
@ Spottie, Good Points. I’d also venture you can go to Hooters to see bitties with your chicken wangs, but you can’t mistreat the staff there either.
^You also shouldn’t want to mistreat the staff.
Hooters indeed. I mean, there are even behavior rules in strip clubs for Peter’s sake
And true point about not wanting to mistreat people.
Now this reminds me of Biggie Shorty in the movie Pootie Tang. Biggie shortie played by pre out Wanda Sykes was on the corner dressed in all red from the red wig to the red high heels listening to music dancing and shaking it up on a seedy looking street corner. She get’s aproached by a couple johns and refutes, “You think that just cuz a girl likes to dress fancy and stand on the corner next to some whores, that she’s hookin? ” To which the Johns retorted bewildered and confuddled “yeah.”
Despite that fact that I am tired of hearing white frat boys speaking in “Pootie Tang” every once in a while, I still love watching that movie, especially that scene.
I think that the media isn’t allowing for 2520 women to hide their flaws so easily any more. Oh I meant to only say 2520 cuz some Hispanic people consider themselves as such (Sammy Sosa). It’s like Rosewood in modern day times.
Real talk, I can always count on WuDaMan to bring it home on any VSB topic.
How is it that we’ve gotten to a point where even the POTUS will tell young men to pull up their pants because they look stupid, but we still can’t tell a woman not to wear pants that outline her vulva?
Cuz, it is that thing called a double standard.
*snickering at your whole comment*
Because men WANT to see vuvlas.
I have never in my life heard a man say “Girl, lemme get a look at that vulva! Mm mm good!”
Never have. Hopefully never will.
I have never in my life heard a man say “Girl, lemme get a look at that vulva!…”
I imagine this would only work if dude was an ob/gyn….
Even then it wouldn’t work. With my feet in some stirrups is no time to break code and go all friendly. Even if I do have a nice vulva, wait til my draws are back on to tell me so
Lol…good point….as a man, I don’t know if there is a good/proper way to compliment a vulva. I guess some things are better left unspoken.
I can’t help but think that’d be the worst pick up line ever… *shivers*
Let it be known that no man, professional or otherwise, should comment on a woman’s nice looking vulva. lol
but we still can’t tell a woman not to wear pants that outline her vulva?
yup. these are my readers.
And there it is really….
Because more than half of the population would like to see the outline of her vulva, areolas, and posterior. Slutty women are good to look at, it’s like candy for your eyes. Sagging pants is just stoopid and looks punkish. NO one likes punkishness.
The vulva talk is killing me. hahaha!
You can tell her to loosen up the pants. No one is against thinking that they look mighty uncomfortable. I’m always commenting that a camel toe is a no-no. It just looks like it hurts. I wouldn’t yell it at some chick as she’s walking down the street or anything.
I really don’t understand how tight jeans and a shirt is a ho-uniform. She was at a casual event and she and her employers obviously thought her attire was appropriate for her surroundings. If she had gone into the locker room naked and gotten in the shower with one of the players…maybe I’d see some of your points. But to make it about her outfit is ridiculous.
It all balls down to people really should stop making excuses for why they are the idiots they are. No woman deserves to be harassed, for any reason. PERIOD. (yes, even a stripper).
It’s jeans and a t-shirt… jeans and a t-shirt. The only thing is that she looks hotter than the average female dressed in jeans and a t-shirt. Women get shamed for not conforming to body standards, then get shamed for not hiding their bodies like nuns. There is absolutely no excuse for how those athletes acted.
In her defense, she was not the one that made the sexual harrasment allegations, it was other reporters and bystanders. She knew exactly what she was doing and didn’t have a problem with it. It’s a very Latin thing to walk around with that “look but don’t touch” attitude and that’s what she was doing. It’s very common in Latin American tv for women to be dressed less modestly than we do here, I guess it’s just a little culture shock
I am Muslim, and I have been catcalled when completely covered–no burqa, but still covered!!! I don’t know how I feel about this post…more thinking needed…
I keep seeing the same thing in various degrees of capital letters. Whoever did this to her needs to be punished
So, I have a question for all who have said this:
1. What was it that was done to her?
2. What do you feel would be an appropriate punishment?
1. She was allegedly sexually harassed.
2. Make the perps shake their ass for cash (to pay their fines) to a group that makes them feel uncomfortable when being sexually objectified.
A throat punch, a cool glass of STFU, and a timeout will not work in this instance.
1. Technically, she said that she wasn’t uncomfortable with catcalls and the hooting and hollering. It was OTHER reporters who had a problem with the disruptions, which totally changes my opinion about the situation.
2. Chances are, the punishment is going to be some sensitivity sessions and a fine for the players.
A throat punch, a cool glass of STFU, and a timeout will not work in this instance.
i was alive but now im dead again.
I damn near hollered at work when I read this:
“a throat punch, a cool glass of STFU and a time out will not work in this instance.”
DEAD for sure!
I guess the point of my comment was to point out that in situations like this, the punishment is a sensitivity seminar. “People, don’t catcall in the workplace”. This is typically the response for first time offences of this level.
However, the way the “those responsible should be punished” is phrased seems to indicate that people are expecting something much harsher.
As a point of reference, what exactly would you people downcrying her outfit would have liked her to wear?
I’m hot as hell (so is Inez) and you can see that in a jeans or in a suit. Gtfoh. I smell haterade’s poisonous influence.
I get harassed in long, loose dresses-the equivalent of wearing a garbage bag.
Down with this male supremacist bulls*it. Champ, I expected better. Rethink and come again.
I’m hot as hell (so is Inez) and you can see that in a jeans or in a suit. Gtfoh. I smell haterade’s poisonous influence.
*Enters the courtroom in my velour purple judge-gear.
On behalf of the plaintiff (VSB’s), this comment is rendered null and void without accompanying evidence to substantiate.
*bangs amethyst-encrusted gavel.
On behalf of the plaintiff (VSB’s), this comment is rendered null and void without accompanying evidence to substantiate. .
*snickering*
I dont think women should be allowed in the mens locker room at all. I feel like thats an invasion of their privacy. Since I dont watch womens sports I cant say for sure if males are allowed to inverview in the lockers after their games, but I doubt it.
Also, I’m guessing the Mark Sanchez/Ines Sanz interview was in Spanish? She was on the Today show and I barely understood what she was saying in English.
I was reading another article about this somewhere and read that male reporters are allowed in women’s locker rooms and they have the same rules: the team gets x amount of time to do what they need to do before the reporters come in. After that, there is a closed area that they can go to if they don’t want to be seen naked. My guess is that the women athletes make better use of this closed area than the men do.
Well put. Coming from someone who’s worked in locker rooms as a reporter for years now, Sainz should have known better. It doesn’t excuse the catcalls and whistles. But I’ve never seen one female reporter walk into a locker room dressed the way she was. Not one. That’s telling.
Anyway, this whole thing is a joke of sorts to me, unless one thing happens: Hannah Storm looks through these pictures of Sainz, studies the story and its dialogue and somehow realizes that she has the body of a 48-year-old, well-seasoned broadcast journalist and not a 23-year-old thoroughbred who shuts the club down from Tuesday to Saturday. Her choice in attire consistently leads one to believe she is quite confused as to who she is.
I see a hater. I bet good money Hannah shut down the club in the same body she has right now and those who liked it then *cough*white boys*cough* still like it now.
Because I am a trained journalist, I care more about whether or not she is doing her job and if she is good at it. For me, that would help me to determine how “serious” I take her and her wardrobe decisions. With that said, I thought this was pretty funny (SMH):
“She has covered the NFL before, including several Super Bowls. At a media event before the Super Bowl in 2009, she measured the bicep of Arizona Cardinals wide receiver Steve Breaston. The year before, she asked Patriots quarterback Tom Brady what it would take for New England to beat the Jets. The Pats actually were playing the Giants.”
http://www.cleveland.com/people/index.ssf/2010/09/inez_sainz_sports_reporter_for.html
I was going to mention that about her reporting at the Super Bowl. Everyone knows that Media Day at the Super Bowl. To me, that environment is totally different than the weekly locker room reporting during an NFL season. Usually it is outside and nice weather is involved, so people dress pretty comfortably on that day. I think the way she was dressed in the pictures above would be appropriate for the Super Bowl, when everyone is fully clothed, comfortable and testosterone levels are pretty minimal.
@CBG
Personally, I think more people would back her if outstanding journalistic skills were more prevalent in her than her stance on looking sexy (or as she says, not dressing ugly). But, supporting sexiness as a right in a historically conservative career field is just taboo. IMO, she is a cheerleader for her station and getting way too much attention for this.
I agree. If she could spit info about what Mark Sanchez had trouble with Ravens’ 3-4 defense, she could have had more support, and other female sports journalists wouldn’t feel embarrassed for her.
The year before, she asked Patriots quarterback Tom Brady what it would take for New England to beat the Jets. The Pats actually were playing the Giants.”
that is more offensive to me than her booty-pop jeans.
ugh. give me HER job!!!
Keisha Brown
“that is more offensive to me than her booty-pop jeans.
ugh. give me HER job!!!”
For Real!! She missed “Journalism 101″- Knowing the facts.
simple facts like..know what teams are playing.
ugh.
@Keisha Brown
Please don’t tell me those are booty pop jeans. You’re joking right? Her donk isn’t real?
@Humble One
LOL. I dont know, I’m just guessing.
“Admitting your personal culpability doesn’t absolve the perpetrators of any blame”——>and there you have it.
Having grown up around massive amounts of Puerto Ricans/Mexicans/Dominicans, I do have to say, culture may play a role here. Seriously. There just seems to be a different interpretation of what constitutes appropriate attire in various settings among the Latinas. [not to say that Latinas never know how to dress appropriately, but based on having grown up in little puerto rico, New Jersey, i'm just sayin this is what I observed for 18 years...] Her tweets indicate that she doesn’t think she’s inappropriately dressed, her likely reasoning is b/c she’s “covered”. Maybe somone should tell her that wearing painted on jeans isn’t a good look when you’re in the locker room. Moving on to what’s really important————>her ass. got damn! *jealous*
It is good to see this topic come up on VSB. I wanted to see different perspectives on this. For me, I think this is a cultural thing. Despite the fact that we are a “free” country, we are pretty damn conservative and PC when it comes to interaction with women in areas that are predominantly male. In many countries, women are still looked are still at as objects and no equals. Based on our standards and the strides in equality by women in this country, a woman dressed like Ines walking into a locker room after a professional football game is going to get more attention than any other female journalist in there. Was she wrong for dressing that way? No, especially if this is normally how she would dress in her own country when doing athlete interviews? Should she have done some kind of research to learn of how things are done in the US? Maybe, because that something we as Americans have to do it our professions when interacting with people from other countries. As a man who loves sports and loves the beautiful women that cover sports, and do a damn good job of it, it kinda sucks to see something like this come up when you have women like Pam Oliver, Lisa Salters and Reischea Canidate who dress professionally and yet look damn good reporting the sports news. This isn’t something we should judge her for. Let’s just home if she wants to interview someone in an NFL locker room, she might want to cover her @ss just a little.
I think the locker room that she was in really made it worse that what it could have been. The Jets have been in the news for the past 4 months so adding something like this to the mix only magnifies it. If she was in the Cleveland Browns locker room, things may been different. The only way it could have been worse, and this is no shot at Champ, is if she would have been in the Pittsburgh Steelers locker room and Big Ben was the main one leading the cat calls.
Good point. I’m sure she knew what she was doing. I would like to think most women pick clothing to flatter their bodies. This reporter looked like she jumped into a 14 year old’s outfit. But somehow I don’t feel like that is the issue. What I mean is, I don’t think she got harrassed because of her clothes. I think she got harrassed because she is a woman in a football locker room. I’m wondering why no one is taking notice that these are football players and where she was. Like it’s not impossible to think that maybe…just maybe she would have been harrassed anyway. Women like Ines are not rare. There will always be women who dress sexy. I don’t think her outfit was hoeish but it was def sexy. That’s not going away. You made a good point about other countries. Look at the countries where women are made to cover from head to toe, the crimes against women in these regions are horrific! And what about India and Africa where women wear very revealing clothing as a part of tradition? I honestly think the bad behavior of men needs to be spotlighted. There will always be temptation out there so unless we dress in veils, you will see our bodies.
I think she got harrassed because she is a woman in a football locker room. .
I agree!!!
And like I said earlier, I don’t understand why interviews are held in the locker room anyway. If I were a man, I would be uncomfortable having a woman in the area where I was prancing around naked.
I think someone mentioned upthread that members of the media are allowed in women’s locker rooms also, but why?!?! Why don’t they have a booth outside of the locker room, so that when players are done dressing or whatnot, they come out and conduct the interview.
Exactly! I never understood this. ( I personally would love to be in a male locker room while the d’s are swanging) But even I can admit it’s quite scary to think that this is okay. They do need a booth or a press room. I never understood some sports practices anyway though.
*Thinks to self, “She said I made good points. Yay!”
I think the players had not seen her in the locker room and may have added to it on top of how she was dressed. I know they are used to female reporters in the locker room and they may have reacted differently towards Ines. I’ve have always been interested yet equally repulsed by certain customs towards women in different countries.
Oh yeah, I’m a perv like you, so a veil won’t stop me from having bad thoughts about a woman. Eyes really do it for me with a woman so if her eyes capture me, what’s under that veil will left to my imagination. Wait, I take that back. I’m not a perv like you. You’re just a bad influence.
True story I saw this costume in a toy shop where it’s a veil that shows only the eyes and stops at the belly button. You should have seen the pic. Funniest ish ever. They should call the costume “Islamic Hoe”. LOL…j/k!!!
@SFG, This is disrespectful and made me LOL at my cubicle! LMAO! I almost choked as the laughter erupted!
Haha I seent it wid my own eyes. I know it must be hard for the prostitutes in a country where giving the poon away will get you kilt. Hoes gotta survive too.
Funny thing is, it’s some b.s. It’s some freaks out here in these burkas and some freaks that want their women to wear a burka……How else you got a harem of many flavors and a Eunuch to guard em’! It’s a special kind of brain to decide to hoard all that a$$ for yourself ….but I digress, LOL!
…Or to cover your face with a veil to allow some mystery while you twerk it as a belly dancer. FTR, I TOTALLY respect the culture, I’m just saying the freakdom is undercover in some cases.
Hell yeah lol…you already know
Girl, you are terrible. That is too funny.
Hi y’all. This is my second post ever. I’ve been lurking for a few months.
I am amazed that this story won’t go away. My understanding is the woman is a former Miss Universe candidate. When I watch her (and the other female journalists on Spanish channels, they seem quite comfortable in their own skin. EVEN when men say things about them being attractive (the nerve?!). This entire event strikes me as American feminists trying to push their norms on another culture.
“THE PEOPLE WHO DID THIS NEED TO BE PUNISHED.” What thee f#ck! Are you serious? They didn’t touch her, they didn’t climb through her window, where are you getting THEY should be punished? She went into their “house” flaunting her tiddays and ass! Many folks here want to act like the football players are criminals here. GTFOH!
Every woman, yeah I said it! Every woman that gets all dressed up and sexied up expects and wants the attention of men. But they only want a lil bit or just enough to make them feel pretty but not uncomfortable. Oh well, life doesn’t work like that. Men are animals. Animals have instincts. She sauntered her (lil fine ass) tail into the locker-room after a game (or practice, whatever) in skin tight clothes and didn’t think she’d here about it. What planet is she from?
Google this chick and this is what you get: Former Miss Spain; Model for Maxim (multiple times); Voted sexiest sportscaster twice; assed out in every picture she’s ever taken. She is a professional attention-whore.
For those who don’t understand men. I’ll help you out. When we work out and compete against other men, we build up aggression. This aggression is fueled by testosterone. When the game or the competition is over you can not reach underneath your balls and hit a switch and all of a sudden not be aggressive or hyped up. This hyped up feeling takes a while to subside. In these moments directly after the competition if a man can’t go and take out his aggression physically he will in turn compete in any way he knows how. That competition will manifest itself in showing off for other guys by trying to get the attention of whatever female is around. If that female is in anyway something to be competed over, men will do whatever to compete for her attention.
She should be punished for being dressed inappropriately. There is a time and a place for everything. I work in an office building and we have a business/business casual dress code. Now, if one of the females who work here came to work dressed in skin tight clothes she would become a distraction and would be told to tone it down. If I came to work in baggy jeans and a t-shirt I would be a distraction. My girlfriend is a school teacher for middle school kids, if she dressed like that she’d be a distraction, if a nurse came to work in a hospital in skin tight scrubs with her camel toe out and her cleavage pushed up and out, she would be a distraction.
Women, here’s what it’s like to be a man. Think about the time this week or month that you were at your horniest. THAT is how men feel 40-50% of the time, 20% of the time we are 10X that horny, the other 30% of the time we are either sleep or being forced to watch Oprah. The next time you go out in public, take a look at how All of the men view All of the women and vice-versa. You WILL see that men for the most part are un-noticed by women, women on the other hand are examined by every man. The ugly ones are given cursory looks and still have their bodies ogled. The beautiful ones escape no one’s gaze. Everyone looks at them and men look at them in about 10 different ways.
Errr… I’m rambling. Please stop defending this attention whore! Men will be men. Women and men are not the same. No one deserves their private space violated but if you got a fine ass and go into a locker room full of NAKED MEN. You WILL get hollered at.
“…they didn’t climb through her window,…”
But, did they snatch her people up?
Lol!
LMAOOO!!!!!
“Every woman, yeah I said it! Every woman that gets all dressed up and sexied up expects and wants the attention of men. But they only want a lil bit or just enough to make them feel pretty but not uncomfortable. Oh well, life doesn’t work like that. Men are animals. Animals have instincts. She sauntered her (lil fine ass) tail into the locker-room after a game (or practice, whatever) in skin tight clothes and didn’t think she’d here about it.”
You sound like the accused rapist in an after-school special.
LMBO! Fair enough. But just because you are an “accused rapist” doesn’t mean you ARE a rapist.
Doesn’t he though?
“You WILL see that men for the most part are un-noticed by women, women on the other hand are examined by every man.”
This is how little you know about women. Women react the way the average white dude does. We know how to be sneaky and not look pressed. Some of you all still revel in your “manness” and instead of trying to up your game you accept the old ways of being a hound and then label it as “this is just how we do”.
“you accept the old ways” – Yeah, the very same ways that have been in existence for all of mankind. This “new way” of behaving is just that, new. Surely you don’t think men’s behavior, which has been pretty consistent since the beginning of time, is gonna change now. We have progressed as a species by promulgating the “old ways”. You may not like it but, it’s the way it is.
The acceptance of women and negroes as equals is pretty much new for this country. Women as equals, outside of birthrights, seems fairly new as well and yet here we are.
Do I think men’s behavior is going to change? Yes. As with any social behavior it changes when we decide that it is unacceptable. As it stands right now, not every man is incapable of not doing a complete 180 in order to turn around and see an ass. Not every man has to hoot and holler and go on and on about a woman’s appearance depite her obvious discomfort or ignoring the guy completely. We’re not talking looks and the occasional “MMM” or “Oh my” that escapes your lips. And yes, these guys are in fact heterosexuals. They actually take into account how some women might feel about such aggressive behavior. They actually don’t want her to feel uncomfortable about showing off what she has. They actually get that acting as if they are some uncontrollable wild animal isn’t necessary to get their kicks from seeing a fine ass or soem breasts.
No one is saying that your mind has to go blank when you see a nice woman. No one is saying that you can’t take in the view. All that is being said is that a man is to act like an adult instead of a silly teenager with out of control hormones and no sort of self-control.
I’m pretty amazed that so many women and men think so little of dudes. You really so seem to think that evolution and becoming more “civilized” or having manners only affects women.
“She should be punished for being dressed inappropriately.”
^If that is the case, this wasn’t her first day of work. Why no one said anything before now? She been admitted by security, the front office, got badges to enter areas, etc. etc. all this time, but it HER fault alone?
I agree that no one deserves to be put into a situation where they are made to feel uncomfortable but in this case she also holds some of the responsibility to prevent the situation from occurring in the first place. The men were wrong for making those types of advances but how do we know that her outfit didn’t make someone else around her uncomfortable?
I don’t believe that it was a cultural thing as someone else posted. I think that this woman PROBABLY doesn’t know workplace appropriateness. She has used her looks to advance and now that she wants to be taken seriously, she simply doesn’t know how to do it. There are many of US (hehehehe) that are “sexy” working women. I am in a legal environment so I pretty much have to tone down everything that I wear (including accessories) because it can be a bit too much for work.
(I’d love to stroll in here in my pajama jeans, UGGS and my favorite snarky remark tshirt and then say that is a “cultural thing” when they try to escort me back out the door)
“victim-blaming isn’t always a wrong concept” Yes, it is. Next.
No, it’s not! I can think of a couple of incidents where the “victim” could be blamed. See, Steve Irwin (loved that dude, RIP, but, his ass was asking for it), anyone who’s ever been attacked by a shark, Desiree Washington (ooooh, no he di-nt!), Roy from Siegfried and Roy, this f@ckin guy: http://abcnews.go.com/GMA/video/lion-attacks-trainer-mgm-grand-las-vegas-11582335, etc., etc., etc.
This is a tricky subject.. I think without knowing this young lady, its hard to know whether she purposely dresses in a certain way to attract attention from athletes or if this is how reporters normally dress in her country and she honestly didn’t think she was doing anything out of the norm.
I saw an interview with her right after the thing happened which most news channels edited out in repeat segments but she was saying something along the lines of, “My clothes weren’t inappropriate but maybe because of the shape of my body it appears more sexy but that’s not my fault”
Kinda reminds me of the chick who’s suing Citibank saying they fired her because she was too hot and her while male coworkers just couldn’t handle her sexiness and voluptous body (o_O)
But I think the most important thing here is that she said she wasn’t that bothered by it and she wasn’t going to press charges. Just like if ur a woman and ur male coworkers make crude and/or sexual jokes in your presence, its only considered sexual harassment if it makes YOU uncomfortable. If you’re cool with it, and are sitting up there chiming in as theyre talking about sweaty nutsacks and “smashing”, no harm no foul.
There’s no excuse for the Jets behavior you would think men being profesional athletes have seen lots of half nekkid chicks so seeing some random chick in the locker room with yeast-infection inducing jeans and her breasts all propped up shouldn’t have made them start acting like a bunch of fresh out of the pokey, thirsty ex cons.
—Just like if ur a woman and ur male coworkers make crude and/or sexual jokes in your presence, its only considered sexual harassment if it makes YOU uncomfortable.—
That actually is not true. Sexual harassment, at work, only needs to create an uncomfortable environment. Anybody can file a sexual harassment claim against the perpetrator, it does not have to be the target of the harassment. I’ve handled corporate sexual harassment cases where the target was completely unaware of the harassment.
What I’m saying is, if I hang with all the guys at work and we all tell lewd jokes all the time and no one is bothered, that wouldn’t be considered sexual harassment. However, if say, random chick Mary, who sits in the same cubicle row with all of us feels umcomfortable about our jokes (even though they’re not directed at her), SHE could have a case for sexual harassment.
But if that’s not the case and if I’m cool with the guys joking with me, someone else outside of the situation could accuse them of sexually harassing me, but if I say I’m cool with it, its not sexual harassment anymore. At the point it might still be considered unprofessional conduct or inappropriate work behavior but it would no longer be considered “harassment” which is an entire different ballgame.
It IS considered sexual harassment, you’re just not reporting it, or you’re participating in it. Just ask HR at your job, or any job, and they would tell you that most definitely is sexual harassment.
More employers need to have training on this, and not just for managers, because clearly people do not understand.
You guys should be careful. I’ve seen people lose their jobs in situations where they felt there was “no harm” in what they were doing because they had been doing it habitually. And HR cuts no slack to black folks, especially black men, who engage in such behavior.
And I’ve also handled cases where women lost their jobs because they thought nothing of making a sexual comment about a man, to another woman. Just imagine losing your livelihood over unnecessary comments made because “no one was offended”.
Not to respond to my own comment, but this is kinda why it IS a big deal, even though Inez is not bothered by it. Other women, probably other reporters, feel hat this could create a dangerous, or uncomfortable environment for them too, if this type of behavior goes unchecked, and it’s true.
So while some say well if she’s not bothered it’s a big deal, if it’s not handled, it opens a very wide door for them to engage in this behavior with ALL female reporters, no matter how they are dressed and how they carry themselves.
Because these guys, coming down from the ramp up of the game, are likely unable, in the moment, to make a snap decision whether or not something is appropriate based on who is present. It’s better to eliminate the behavior– entirely– regardless of who the reporter is or how she is dressed, rather than leave it up to he men to make judgment calls about whether the target of harassment would or would not be bothered by it.
There are two issues here: the guys are most definitely wrong. most definitely.
But, also, she’s just not dressed appropriately for the environment or the culture she’s in. And yeah, they may dress like that in Latin America, but she’s actually here, in America, and that’s not appropriate workplace attire for the environment she’s in.
So what this tells me is this:
1) Men really don’t give a sh*t about logic and
2) Women are to blame for the actions of men.
I’m sorry, but this bugs me for a number of reasons. First, while she COULD be dressed differently, in what she had on during the interview, she was not dressed provactively. Was her outfit, fitted? Yes it was. Is that an excuse for her to be treated unprofessionally? No.
If this is going to become an issue, then locker room interviews just need to go away. Besides, who wants to be asked questions in a towel or stark naked?
Second, this type of thinking (the “how can we blame the person victimized” mentality) is the reason why many male athletes (and other men) feel as though the can say/do whatever they want to a woman. As a society, we know and accept that if you’re assaulted sexually as a woman that you, your lifestyle and your entire clothing collection will be put on trial as well. It’s an extremely dangerous notion to have because it’s the foundation that leads to burka’s and such. We may look at that culture and say “that’s not right” but in theory, as a society, we hold views that are much closer to that line of thinking than we care to realize.
And finally, I don’t see why so many women in this thread are double minded. The same women who will say “she was at fault, she’s a ho, etc, etc, etc” are the same women who will be outraged when a man comes at them sideways while they walk out of a club in a short skirt and heels. (which there is nothing wrong with, btw. I’m just making a point.) She’ll be the one talking about her experience in a group and if some dude asks her “so, what were you wearing”, she’d be the first one to cuss him out or talk about how he was wrong in blaming her….yet she’ll do the same when it comes to another woman.
SMH….
Personally, I agree with everyone who said that the Jets were at work and their behavior was completely inexcusable. You are at work, act like the professional that you are suppose to be.
I also think her dress was inappropriate for work also. You can say that she is from Mexico and that is acceptable there so she should be able to do it here, but really it’s not. If you are working in another country, you conform to their standards for decorum, dress, etc. When it comes down to it and you lose business for your employer due to offending a customer with your cultural values, I’m sure that whole reasoning of “I have the right so you can’t not take your business away” won’t work. That could have been the case here. The coaches or management for that team could have very well turned her away before she got to the locker room and tell her “Miss I don’t think that’s appropriate attire for the locker room.” and that would have been a loss in business for her station.
In no way, do I feel like she was asking for it or deserved what she got but I do feel like she was not appropriately dressed for her job here but I wouldn’t go calling that a whore’s uniform.
Just my two cents.
@thepopculturist (aka BKSweetheart) Actually, if they say things to a co-worker in the presence of another co-worker and it makes that co-worker uncomfortable it can also be seen as sexual harrassment.
It’s sort of like how the state can press charges in some crimes even if the victim doesn’t want to do it. It’s still wrong or illegal or against the rules even if the person who it was geared towards doesn’t mind it so much.
MO, I feel like you’re right on the money! “He’s an athelete, so what do you expect?” I expect that we should expect more from them instead of writing it of as another case of boys will be boys. That sort of mentality is what leads to all sorts of acts fueled by groupthink. Perhaps if we start questioning it beforehand and pointing out how these things just aren’t cool then behavior will follow suit. Historically that is how you make social change.
@Yaaa I’m not so sure about that one. Look at lots of South American and Spanish stations and you’ll see a lot more flaunting of sexuality and body hugging attire on shows where Americans wouldn’t be caught dead in those sort of outfits. As she said if she had a pancake butt and no curves not too many folks would be making comments about how her looks MADE them do it.
Champ, the problem with this type of thinking is that it’s not invariant across cultures. What one culture thinks is “asking for it” is not what any other thinks. I.e. there was a woman in Saudi Arabia that went outside without her man (because in SA you literally can’t leave the house without a man) went to a certain spot where a bunch of men were, by accident, and got raped. She was in full hijaab, but the men that raped her were only lightly punished, while she was sentenced to years in prison, because her presence without a man was all the “asking for it” that the rapists needed. Should the victim bare any blame there? I provide this example to indicate that this is the type of thinking that you’re advocating in your post taken to an extreme. The rapists were clearly recognized as doing wrong, but apparently the victim had done some wrong, too. IMO, we should be taking a look at the cultures that deem it okay for others’ actions to excuse my phucked up behavior. No amount of presence or provocative dress should ever excuse anyone else’s inappropriate behavior, now that being said, do I think cat calls and suggestive comments constitute “inappropriate behavior”? No, not really, as I believe stuff like this should be protected under free speech. If they had stepped to her in a physical/intimidating manner (ie one where you feel you may have to physically defend yourself) then that would be a different story but as far as I can see feeling bad or uncomfortable shouldn’t be grounds for a lawsuit. As you can tell I have problems with the way sexual harassment law is defined.
Overall though the action/reaction isn’t even the problem. The issue is the paternalistic culture in which we live. It simply shouldn’t be okay to disrespect a woman because your sexually attracted to her.
I agree with you,NomadaNare. This woman works for Spanish language TV and if you’ve seen it then you know that just about all of the women on dress as she did. Actually some dress more provocatively
So in her defense she is from a different culture. And her standard of professional dress may be different from ours.
But more importantly these men in the NFL are supposed to be professionals. But thier actions sound more like that of high school players.
She was there to work and as such she should have been treated in a professional manner, period..
I have read this website for over a year and a half and this is my first time commenting. I usually find your posts to be funny and enlightening, but I’m aghast at today’s post. I’m living in Brazil and I see a very real difference in Latin American culture and American culture, specifically concerning dress. Someone wearing 5 inch high heels on the morning news is de rigeur here. Does that make them hoes? No, its a different aesthetic. Yes, this is clearly a clash of cultures. But I am just floored by the use of “ho” and other insults so loosely and the idea that some forms of harrassment are less severe than others. I truly expected more from this website. If you want to talk about victim-blaming and its flaws you need to use a lot more theory than you have. Your occassional pushing the envelope is funny, but this post has taken it all too far. I am really disappointed and I will no longer be reading this blog.
did u read the disclaimer in red? I wasn’t cool with his use of the word “ho” either, til I read the disclaimer. I don’t think he was trying to call her a ho, just trying to stir up a fuss- but that’s just the way I saw it.
Chica, as a fellow Latina I’m not a big fan of this post either but the Champ is entitled to his opinion (as uninformed and insensitive as it may be). Don’t let this post ruin all the fun this website creates for you. I wonder if she had been an African American would he have the same opinion…or what he has to say about Erin Andrews and the harrassment issues she has….we’ll probably never know.
I am really disappointed and I will no longer be reading this blog. .
It always cracks me up when people say they will no longer read a blog. Methinks you will. *palin wink*
any sane woman knows that if you have a big butt & you wear the tightest jeans you own it’s gonna attract male attention. I’m a woman & I’d wear that outfit around my boyfriend but not too church or work- is she fa real?
i’m not trying to argue, this is just something that i didn’t address in my post, but: she would have a big butt in anything she wore. and men can see your assets in loose clothing, trust. so…why should she have to dress in a way she doesn’t like when they’d look anyway? there’s nothing wrong with the outfit itself, it’s the way she looks in it. another woman would have the same thing on and nobody would bat an eyelash regarding her level of appropriateness. having said that, this same woman could have on a sweats and a man looking to check out a*s is still going to check out her a*s. which is fine, he can just do it in a non-assaultive way.
Exactly Charli!!
My butt is big and its going to stick out no matter what I am in be it slacks or sweats. She said she was wearing her size and my clothes fit the same way hers do. She has been doing this for 9 years with out a hitch so obviously the jets that made comments were in the wrong.
Also she has three kids and still looks great. Please believe if I had three kids and still looked like I do now I’d go to work in less lol!
okay, i haven’t read the comments yet, but clearly i must be a strumpet or something. because i really don’t think her clothing was inappropriate. most women wear form fitting clothes, but their forms aren’t all that interesting. and she’s a sports reporter, not a school teacher! hmm…i may need to go reevaluate some things. lol.
also, i’m not saying that she necessarily should have been surprised by the attention. on the contrary, she was probably used to it, as she wasn’t even the one that complained. but she’s a young, attractive woman working in a male dominated field. changing her clothes wouldn’t do too much to abate the attention, i don’t think. so she probably just decided to dress how she wants. men stare. they stare when you’re in sweat pants and they stare when you’re in a button down and jeans (seriously? a button down and jeans is a ho’s uniform? really?). sometimes they say something after they stare. it’s really not worth changing your plans/outfit over. but again, maybe there’s some part of the story that i’m missing here.
but clearly i must be a strumpet or something. because i really don’t think her clothing was inappropriate
I guess we’ll be strumpets together.
for those of you have seen her interviews, do you remember her saying she was not the individual who lodged the complaint? she also stated she did not hear the comments initially. she has no culpability in the situation due to her attire. the ones at fault are those overpaid, testosterone enflamed kids she was wading thru for an interview. they should have acted like professionals. isn’t that what they call themselves…professional athletes?
as a dc police officer, i have so many stories of clinton portis, allen iverson(who likes to get handjobs from prostitutes), chris webber, mike tyson(who i stopped with 5 prostitutes while driving his benz without a driver license), rod strickland(who i fought in a barroom brawl he started with me by swinging at me), michael smith(former washington wizard i arrested for trying to shoot a man in front of a niteclub & for disorderly conduct), & a whole slew of athletes, celebrities, & political figures. also, in my partime/sidework as a bodyguard for celebrities, athletes & vip’s i saw some behavior that would make you shudder.
inez sainz did nothing wrong, was not dressed inappropriately, & all the blame falls on those punkass players who don’t know how to control themselves.
here, here! (or is it “hear, hear”? lawd….either way, i agree witchu.)
Facebook Like x 100.
BBM 3 thumbs up.
AMEN!
Well, there it is!
Good points from a perspective of one in contact with said parties.
I wonder why no one said anything to the players while this was going on. Someone could have hit them with a “shut the f*ck up” and went ahead with business.
LOL, Ok?!
Exactly like what about the players?! lol geesh
@SFG, it’s so cool when we agree on stuff.
You know i heart you gurl lol
And I think that’s why the whole thing bothers me a WHOLE lot.
I mean I grew up with the knowledge that if I so much stepped into the vicinity/house of a guy and something happened I had NO case whatsoever… ever. The law did not protect me, the society does not protect me…. So I took the precautions for the so-called “not being a target” thing… Meanwhile, nobody told the boys/men/lawmakers to ACT like they have friggin’ brains.
A 16-yr old girl I know was repeatedly violated by her employer (she was the kids’ nanny) to the point where she had to have an abortion… And you know what happened? Well, it’s supposedly because she was tying her wrapper (african fabric) suggestively. Say eff’n what??? How do you even tie a wrapper “suggestively”?
And that’s my main problem with this scenario… what is “appropriate clothing?” If people start thinking some things are ok because she called it on her, then it becomes easier and easier to justify burning a young woman in an “honor” killing… because after all, she should know her parents are muslim and not have a facebook page…
Where does it stop? and where do you draw the line? Couldn’t those New york jets players or so called alpha males (alpha of what I wonder) refrain from catcalling? Was cat calling a necessary behavior? There is a vast difference between “expected” and “necessary”….
And I think I’ve exceeded the quota of what I had budgeted myself on this topic. Sula out… *deuces* (how appropriate)
I see this world wide. It hurts my heart when I hear about women in other countries getting stiff penalities or even killed because they somehow provoked a man’s actions. Many men have been hiding behind cultures and mis-interpretations of religion as an excuse to do wrong. I’m really gettin sick of women making excuses for men. Champ even wanted to talk about alpha males like it’s some sort of condition that makes the weaker more responsible. Men are the stronger sex. That’s even more reason why they should be responsible for their actions.
Exactly.
So it’s a bit unsettling to hear it from the more progressive part of the planet… Kinda like, wait, if even American males feel like that then surely, we are doomed….
@SFG, Sula, & V Renee
Agreed! It hurts my heart.
Well, it’s supposedly because she was tying her wrapper (african fabric) suggestively. Say eff’n what??? How do you even tie a wrapper “suggestively”? .
Now this is some scary azz sh*t.
And just like that Shay-d-lady was right about her predictions for the turn of this week…
Its amazing how much attention she has received over self-induced sexual harrassment compared to the women who serve in the milatary. Here are some figures stating 1 in 3 women who serve in the military are sexually assaulted:
According to NPR , “In 2003, a survey of female veterans found that 30 percent said they were raped in the military. A 2004 study of veterans who were seeking help for post-traumatic stress disorder found that 71 percent of the women said they were sexually assaulted or raped while serving. And a 1995 study of female veterans of the Gulf and earlier wars, found that 90 percent had been sexually harassed.”
Here’s the link:
http://newsjunkiepost.com/2010/01/26/13rd-of-women-in-us-military-raped/
To which someone would probabaly (sadly) reply that they shouldn’t have joined because they knew the kind of environment they were walking into in the first place.
The government protects it’s own so yes this does get attention but it seems like they handle it internally and no amount of uproar would be enough to know that they’re really doing behind closed doors.
I do believe they are actually doing more classes and finding better ways to report this sort of behavior. I need to do some research to see if any of it has helped with current results.
To which someone would probabaly (sadly) reply that they shouldn’t have joined because they knew the kind of environment they were walking into in the first place.
And that’s the issue right there. When we start finding excuses, we can find an excuse that will make sense in a certain context if we turn it just right under the right atmospheric conditions, etc…etc…
Those are just estimates because MANY people do not report. We are required to attend mandatory sexual assault training, amongst MANY other such trainings, because it is a major issue in the military.
i know its a major issue but Mainstream Media would rather pick up stories like these when there is an epidemic occurring under their noses
boo to losing my entire comment. boo i say!!
being a girl who’s had a larger chest since the age of 9, i’ve had a lifetime of trying to ‘hide’ my body, but as a woman also know when/where/how to showcase the twins for some sexual seductions. snoop.
for every person who thinks Ines was stupid, there are those who think she was inappropriate. such is the shades of grey that rule our life.
FTR: i too disagree with her outfit being called a Ho’s Uniform despite the addendum/disclaimer/attempted backpeddle. it’s thinking like that that leads to the slippery slope that is sexual harrassment.
the constitution/charter of rights & freedoms may allow freedom of speech, but it doesn’t give you the right to use your words as a weapon. Nor does it give you the right to dismiss my feelings as a consequence of the words you chose to use.
i agree. i’m large chested, and people can tell that whether i wear a plunging v-neck or a sweatshirt. even if i think something is tame, because i’ve been seeing myself in certain clothes everyday since i was 9, some other people are still like, “whaaaaaaat? haaaaaaaaaaa?” but it’s not due to provocative dress. the same shirt on her isn’t going to look the same way on me. and if a man is looking, he’s going to see it–and say something if he lacks manners–regardless. i really fail to see what she did wrong, other than do her job dressed the way everybody else does, with a different body, while trying to enjoy her fabulous young life. boom!
FTR: i too disagree with her outfit being called a Ho’s Uniform despite the addendum/disclaimer/attempted backpeddle. it’s thinking like that that leads to the slippery slope that is sexual harrassment.
My point exactly.
i’d like to say for the record, that i tried to change my avi pic, but gravatar wont let me be great!
^Sometimes you gotta refresh Gravatar, refresh VSB and wait a bit and It’ll pop up! Be Great, Miss Keisha! Be Great! *don’t mind me having fun being silly*
im tryin! im tryin!!! booooooo!!!!!!
betta be here tomorrow. tevin campbell.
why isn’t this day OVER yet! im cold and hungry!!
in THIS particular instance, she clearly wanted the attention & she got it. I believe she can absolutely see the difference between how she’s dressed & how other female sports journalists dress – she wants to be seen as sexy, even while on the job. Her ploy worked. The rest of us wouldn’t go into a mens locker room w/ jeans so tight they’re scrubbing our asses raw simply b/c we know better, & there’s a reason for that (silly male behavior aside).
*sideeyes myself*
This was well written… nice job.
subscribed
i dress like that on casual days at work sometimes (so do the other women, but, i’m 25 and therefore look 25, so it’s not the same i guess). clearly, i’m an attorney-at-law. hmm….so, in essence, maybe i shouldn’t be offended that the security guard calls me coffee. i’m only kidding!
except no i’m not.I completely agree with this post. It’s situations like this, and the woman who said she was too sexy for her bank job who want to test the boundaries. How do you turn the tables and perhaps get them to take responsibility for their own encouragement of these actions?
Champ, would you sue a woman who dressed too provocatively in the workplace? Would you charge her with sexual harassment if she distracted from the good order and discipline in the work arena? How would you handle these situations while still respecting her right to enhance her attractiveness, without the need to wear bread-baking jeans? Perhaps she should not be allowed in the locker rooms as a woman, and all reporters should be outside for interviews and commentary.
I absolutely disagree with this post.
Short statement (not response because I don’t care what anyone else writes after this *kanye shrug*)
Even if she had a burqa on those guys would have still made comments. These are professional athletes who have seen or done locker room interviews their entire careers and you’re trying to tell me they can’t control themselves in front of a pretty lady wearing jeans and a button down? I can only imagine what the cheerleaders go thru is that’s the case.
More importantly, as you knew when you wrote it, saying a woman is asking for it is beyond ridiculous. Clothes are immaterial…at what point and in what outfit would a woman be safe from “asking for it.” Follow that that thought to its logical conclusion and it’s not a pretty picture as a woman WILL be harassed or assaulted no matter what she wears.
Frankly this post is another example of why I barely read this blog anymore.
Toodles
Women have a right to wear what they want.
I have a right to ignore you. Which is what I would’ve done had I been in that lockeroom.
She wore the outfit knowing it would draw attention.
I’m an oldhead and I have no time for kids who need attention.
I would’ve turned up “Umi Says” on my Ipod, politely excused myself from the room and slid off.
But hey, maybe that’s just me…
@ThePhiladelphiaNegro
“I would’ve turned up “Umi Says” on my Ipod”
(singing) I don’t wanna write this down….wanna tell you how I feel right now. : )
Hmm… I’m surprised that people are surprised but don’t be surprised when she’s doing “Dancing With The Stars” in 2011.
Riddle me this: If she walks into a locker room with butt naked dudes after a game or practice wearing this outfit and… dude pop wood… who’s sexually harassing who? Just a question…
@WMR
“…don’t be surprised when she’s doing “Dancing With The Stars” in 2011.”
Michaele Salahi is on a reality show, so…anything is possible.
“Michaele Salahi is on a reality show, so…anything is possible.”
^The very mention of the Salahi name (along with seeing them on the reality show) makes it synonymous with “bullyfooting” or forcing their way up into a place in my head. LMAO!
@legitimate_soul
“bullyfooting”
Love this word. : )
The NFL has a 10 or 15 minute cool down rule…and then the media is allowed in. If they are naked then it’s by choice. Being a professional athlete does mean they know and deal with locker room interviews on a daily basis.
Now I’ve had time to think this over and I can’t help but wonder what it would be like it were a man being objectified. Would he get the same outcry? The humanist in me would like to think so, but the reality is, he’d just be told to shut up and enjoy it. I’m not sure which bothers me more; the fact that by always coming to a woman’s rescue (whether she was wronged or not) sets us up to be damsels in distress no matter how “progressive” we say we are, or the fact that a man who would be objectified would most likely suffer in silence because the backlash that would hit him would be everything but sympathetic.
Excellent point. Excellent….and no responses.
I’ll respond. The men and women who are saying “She deserved it ” and “Look at what she wore” would probably call him a punk or say he’s gay. Others who are standing up for her would probably say the same thing. A few others, like myself, would get pissy because while it doesn’t bring up the same negative reaction (I think a women being sexually harrassed tends to make me think of how quickly some men escalate to physical harm) it would be a situation where they’ve gone too far and dude would have rights too.
I know this would be my reaction because it’s my reaction when female teachers who screw their students get hailed as heroes for making the boy’s dreas come true despite the fact that statutory rape is a crime for a reason.
I appreciate your honesty but a child being raped by a female teacher is a different ball game, I think. And to be fair, with the exception of perhaps the young men subjected to this abuse (and their friends) most people – men and women – I think see something wrong in a teacher taking advantage of a young person this way (Although I will admit I had a couple of teacher during my day that I wish violated me this way). I will go further and say that most men and women would defend (but still question) such a young man if he were accused of being gay for not accepting the advances of a hot teacher. But I think when discussing “grown” men you would indeed be in the minority of people defending him. You are right how most of us would respond. Most of us are not that courageous and find it easier to be a victims than active participants in the events that can shape our lives or how the world sees us. If you would indeed defend a man in a similar scenario you are up on many of us. Most of us are in fact not that humane and actually not that progressive and are not as evolved as we think we are. That’s the beauty of JustCallMeTes’ comment. Some where in there lies the progressiveness we (male and female) should be seeking.
“most people – men and women – I think see something wrong in a teacher taking advantage of a young person this way ”
Really? I used to feel that way, but then the topic kept popping up over the years. I know the internet is a place where people can overexaggerate and create a character but google a few of the stories on teen boys and a few nice looking teachers and then scroll down to the comments. Talk to a few people and don’t say that he was raped but that she coerced him into having sex or just acted on his flirtatiousness and advances. If you don’t say that the 15 or 16 year old guy was forced by actual physical means or that he was drugged you might be surprised at the response you get.
The calling him gay part was only in regards to reversing the gender of the people involved in this Sainz thing not the satutory rape part.
Her employer is the one to blame. she was hired for this publicity and she is probably not fully aware. I’ll like to see her credential and qualifications as a journalist other than…….well….ur… her assets. she is doing exactly what she was hired to do for her employer.
FTR: Women weren’t always allowed in men locker rooms… actually are men reporters even allowed in women locker rooms today? I dunno. Anyway, the thing is we feel excluded when we “aren’t allowed” in with the rest of the boys but then call foul when we are. You wanna be one of the guys then suck it up ESTABLISH (because obviously she hasn’t done this before) a professional reputation with your counterparts and don’t eff it up for the other women who know not to wear “club gear” to the office.
Lastly, my outlook would be completely different if this happened outside of a private area… COMPLETELY.
c/s erry word!
My question isn’t “Did she or didn’t she deserve it?” My question is “Was she even really harassed?”
From the reports, she had 1) Some players throw balls near her during practice (really? Big fricken deal, get over yourself) and 2) a few players whistle at her in the locker room. You’re in an environment where you are seeing multiple pro athletes naked. It wasn’t like her ass got slapped.
In my opinion, she WAY overreacted. She is a marginal reporter in the states gunning for her 5 minutes of fame. Who knew who this woman was before all of this? She’s completely made her career off of being sexy. She refers to herself as “the hottest sports reporter in Mexico.” Is there an easier way to get more famous than to accuse some pro athletes of sexual harassment, for actions that would be considered harmless flirting by most SANE individuals? She makes a mockery of women who have REALLY been sexually harassed.
Correction – I just saw that she wasn’t the one who filed the sexual harassment claim – another reporter did. On that note…
http://stuffwhitepeoplelike.com/2008/05/28/101-being-offended/
Very interesting topic. I’m going to have to agree with Champ and everyone else who said that while Saenz is not to blame for the men’s actions she definitely bears some responsibility. If I leave my car unlocked with the keys in the ignition, I shouldn’t be surprised if its not there when I get back. Women should not get a pass for exercising poor judgment simply because we are women. Just because you have the right to wear whatever you want whenever you want-and we absolutely have that right-does not mean it is always wise to do so.
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“Admitting your personal culpability doesn’t absolve the perpetrators of any blame.”
Ohhh no…*black girl head roll* this will not fly, because victim blaming is NEVER justified. Unfortunately, admitting culpability does often absolve perpetrators of the blame, and minimizes the responsibility they have in the situation. “If she just hadn’t worn…if she just hadn’t been walking alone…”. Bullcr@p! How about if he just wasn’t disrespectful and misogynistic?? The only thing victims can really do in any case is reduce their risk of being victimized, but this doesn’t actually prevent any type of victimization. So yeah, you might reduce your risk of getting “beat up, stabbed, or shot while walking through a known Crip area at night with a Chicago Bulls jersey and two red bandannas around my neck” by rocking a seer sucker suit and sexily perched fedora hat (hmm…or maybe not), but at the end of the day, only the perpetrator can truly prevent the crime.
Just look at the “The Rape of Mr. Smith”!
Champ, are you for real with this post? This is so disappointing…
* Those damn Bing jerseys and all (WTF is this, soccer?), the Storm just won!
* I’m holding out hope for the WNBA. It’s like that old saying that young married couple have so many problems because they want to be where there parents are now, not where there parents were when they just got married. On that note, the WNBA is not where the NBA is now, but doing a hell of a lot better than the NBA was when it was 12 years old. People keep forgetting the NBA started in the 50s, but wasn’t doing it big until the 80s
Very interesting topic. I’m going to have to agree with Champ and everyone else who said that while Saenz is not to blame for the men’s actions she definitely bears some responsibility. If I leave my car unlocked with the keys in the ignition, I shouldn’t be surprised if its not there when I get back. Women should not get a pass for exercising poor judgment simply because we are women. Just because you have the right to wear whatever you want whenever you want-and we absolutely have that right-does not mean it is always wise to do so.
the women who say Saniz is completely innocent are 100% wrong, she is using her ass and her titties to get ahead in life and abuse her pussy power but, as soon as it back fires on her its not her fault at all for wearing that sexually revealing outfit that hugs her womanly figure and just calls for attention to her slim waste and wide hips and nice plump behind around grown men. Both parties are in the wrong here like the champ said any women that disagrees does not want equal rights with men they want to run the world. Thats like saying its ok to go to the hood and have a million dollars in hand and tell nobody dont take my money I have a million dollars we all know your not going to keep that money. women want to be able to use their pussy power to manipulate men at any situation professional or casual. Think about how the men felt seeing this beautiful women dressed sexy infront of them while their testosterone levels are at high levels you think they are not made uncofortable when their instincts tell them to do something but their conscience mind is telling them to do another. They should still show self control but its really hard when your instincts are telling you to do something that you know is wrong.
Opinion and emotions aside, I think one thing folks are missing is that wrong is wrong. It isn’t less wrong because someone makes it easy for you to be wrong. It’s still wrong. They got a tv show called “Bait Car”. Cops leave a car unattended with keys in it and they film folks who see that and steal the car. The cops then follow, stop, arrest, and charge the theives. One can argue entrapment all they want, but they still were wrong. They made a conscious decision to break the law and take something that didn’t belong to them. The cops made it so easy to be wrong, but it STILL WAS WRONG. Folks may not feel comfortbale with that example or what went down, but comfort level aside it was wrong.
One might ask was she wrong? No. Because no matter how you feel about her, her clothing, her style of dress, her professionalism, respect, culture, employer, journalism skill or lack there of. If she was not ever told she was inapproriate, she wasn’t wrong. If they gave her badges to enter, to be on the field, to interview.. she good. No matter how one may feel and their personal opinion about her, she didn’t break the law or policy.
I can’t with this. I just can’t. I know this comment is hella late and a dollar short but WHAT THE EVER LOVING F*CK IS THIS POST?!
Is everyone just OKAY with the basic premise of this bullshit???
SO WHAT IF I AM A GODDAM WHORE????
So What if I am on the literal corner, one thong, 2pasties, giant sign saying “I AM A PROSTITUTE. I EXCHANGE SEX FOR MONEY. HERE IS WHERE TO BUY SEX ACTS FOR I AM A DEFINITE WHORE.” If I was doing all those things, hell, let’s even throw in that I approached YOU and verbally offered sex for money– know what that means I’m “asking for”??? SEX I AGREE TO HAVE IN EXCHANGE FOR MONEY, FOOL! That’s it. That is the only thing being a sex worker means. It DOES NOT MEAN that, now, others have the right to harrass you or assault you or scare you or intimidate you or rape you or kill you. It is a basic RIGHT AS A HUMAN BEING to be free from all those things. No one has partial human rights. Wearing tight jeans doesn’t give me 85% the right to not be harassed/objectified/intimidated/demeaned. There is no scale where nuns get 100% the right to not get raped and crack whores get 2%. And if you think there SHOULD be a scale like that, please check lost and found for your humanity and/or soul cuz you have lost maybe both.
Can we just try empathy one day? Like, can we collectively as a people practice compassion and love for one another and hold others to that standard instead of blaming people for not being perfect victims cuz oh well that’s just how the world works????
Prostitutes are people.
Strippers are people.
Sexy women are people.
Women with low self esteem who flaunt themselves are people.
People with drug addiction are people.
FOOTBALL PLAYERS who we apparently let off from the rules of human decency ARE PEOPLE!
Meanwhile 50cent advocates for the murder of pregnant women in order to save some cash and hundreds of little Black girls are being abused while somebody sits by saying “Well she was too fast anyway.”
But no no, carry on. When else can blaming women for things you disapprove of be a good thing to anyone ever?
Say that!!!
have been reading for almost a year but have never posted. at the present time, my shock to others’ reactions overwhelms my desire to respond about the actual incident at hand. so i wont.
wow, complete flabbergast-ation @ “i am disappointed at champ” and i am “never reading the blog again” etc…really tho? isnt the point of this to foster intelligent conversation, not shut it down or judge…especially about something based on opinion?
wow i say, wow.
To this post i add:
http://www.rippdemup.com/2010/09/street-meet-black-women-black-men.html
Also see:
http://www.stopstreetharassment.com/resources/video.htm
My favorites:
Maggie Hadleigh-West’s War Zone
“Black Women Walking” by Tracey Rose
There are plenty of anti-harassment sites as well.
Most popular:
http://hollabacknyc.blogspot.com/
http://www.streetharassmentproject.org/
The thing is women worldwide are sick of harassment and gender violence based on the way we dress, “act”, walk, etc.
No matter what a woman wears a man does not have the right to behave sexually aggressive in any environment – streets, locker room, or otherwise.
The fact that men think they have “safe” zones to engage in harassment is just sad.
The fact that there are women that co-sign on this behavior (IMO due to female competition and the idea of receiving preferential treatment from men) is just deplorable.
Making sexually explicit comments, catcalls, street harassment is NEVER acceptable especially when dealing with a woman that is a TOTAL STRANGER TO YOU.
I will never understand why men think they have the right to walk up to a female stranger and proceed to blurt out suggestive, sexual comments that they should reserve for their girlfriend, wife, or the sex worker they paid for the night.
Really, men (and the women that co-sign on this behavior) need to get a clue and stop thinking the subjugation, exploitation, and abuse of another human being (man, woman or child) is acceptable in any shape or form.
Especially BLACK MEN. Brothers complain ALL THE TIME about the “white man” subjugating, exploiting and abusing them, but turn right around and do the same to women (mostly Black, but a lot of non-Black as well) and children in their own communities.
In the 21st century you would think we would we be a world of evolved human beings, instead of childish savages.
Just wow!
co-sign 1000%
Tons of comments, plenty I agree with, plenty I don’t. I’ll just say this:
I like this post. Because I’ve been thinking about this as well. I hesitated to say “well, she shouldn’t have dressed like that,” because I thought of what you mentioned, Champ, about how perpetrators who have raped women would probably say some bull-ish like “they asked for it.”
No, the dudes weren’t right for cat-calling, but, I’mma put it like this: I have a lil’ back to me… so when I go out anywhere (to work, to the club, anywhere), I am always cognizant of that, and I watch what I wear. I know that people like to cat-call and all that no matter WHAT you may have on, so I don’t want to possibly exacerbate the situation by wearing some skin tight RAVE jeans. (not that I can fit them, anyway.)
Does that mean I dress in baggy clothing and reduce my sexy? No, because I believe sexiness has little to do with your clothing and all to do with your personality. But do I know that if I wear pants so tight you can see my thong line that I’m going to get a certain type of attention that I don’t necessarily want? Yup, I sure do.
If the “reporter” wants to wear clothing like that, then she should be aware of the attention she’s going to garner. Doesn’t mean it’s “right” or “wrong” though–shit, it’s life. Men are visually stimulated, and women have been blessed with some visually stimulating parts. To act like you don’t know that (as a woman) is blasphemy.
btw: the reporters on Spanish tv do always dress over the top. It makes it difficult for me to watch their news, and I’m a female myself.
I want those jeans!!!! F everything else that was said…lol
Y’all know she wanted the attention and some other female got jealous and made the harassment claim. But let’s not get too hyped up over a Latina with ass injections. Come on y’all. When you see a perfectly round proportional ass on a woman with no other visible body fat, you know the ass is fake. Look at before and after pictures of Ines, or any other “hollywood” woman with ass not in proportion to her size, body type and weight.
“When you see a perfectly round proportional ass on a woman with no other visible body fat, you know the ass is fake.”
Are you African American? if so I would think you would know that there deff are normal women (non holywood) that have a ‘perfectly round’ ass. Some proportional and some not (I know plenty of girls latinas, balck and even white with proportinal nice natural bodies – Lucky B**&^s). In this case I believe she could have be made her body proportinal by incresing her boobies size not her behind – just like black girls latinas also fall under the – big butt big everything stereotype. (which is not always true but most likely the norm – hence a stereotype).
(Following to my own take on this issue) – I dislike the fact that somehow this topic has come out to be an issue of culture. I dont really understand why. because of that I asked the guy I am currently seeing (tall dark and handsome & use to play Football) about this issue. First thing he said is that this happens ALL the time in the locker room – female reporters ( ALL races, ethnicity, colors, curly hair, flat hair, no hair) and their interns come dressed showing too much and the players react the same way they did as when they saw Miss Ines.
My point is it’s NOT a cultural thing – some women like to look slutty period.
I dont go around saying ‘oh you know how those black guys are, wearing baggy pants showing their underwear blah blah, he deserved it.” so I dont appreciate someone sayin ‘Oh latinas dress/are like that, she deserved it” In any kind of situation male or female.
Now, is it acceptable for the guys to react that way – or for her to dress like that AND press charges bc she got hit on is another issue.
I Believe no women should be allowed in the locker room – I would not like a men to interview me while I am in my locker room changing and stuff – too personal back off!! – yea yea yea it’s different for a guy – no is nottt! the only difference is that they will say what they are thinking (not saying that is acceptable behavior) while we just think of it and run our imagination wild.
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You really need to get out more. Your views on this situation really shows how inept you are when dealing with victims and issues of the other gender. I suppose because you were born black and born in the South you deserve to suffer from the Black Codes during the pre -1960′s?
People are so silly. If a Very Smart Brotha decided to crash a Klan rally and expect a dignified welcome, he would be a Very Stupid Brotha. People should act accordingly to what they reasonably expect, not to what should be in a perfect world. It’s not about blame, its about not being stupid. Its called WISDOM. Wisdom is not vacationing in Baghdad, Iraq with a cowboy hat and and an American flag T-shirt. Guess what would happen. Would you make it out alive? No. Is that the way it should be? No. But dammit, you’d still be dead. Our reporter was simply unwise. This is days late, but I had to post it.
Situations like this are really about power, at the root of it. She wanted to assert herself in a certain way through her manner of dress, and was embarrassed when alpha males threw it back in her face. Having been exposed (literally), now she’s going with her backup — the “they disrespected me as a female” card.
Sorry … keep it moving.