Dating, Relationships, & Sex, Race & Politics, Theory & Essay

The Danger of The Sexuality Spectrum

I'm sure they're very interested in today's comments

I read an article a couple weeks ago (I’d link to it here, but I forgot to bookmark it and I honestly can’t remember where I read it) where the author used the gay marriage in New York news story as an introduction to their feelings about how all sexuality is on a spectrum. Basically, there are two ends — 100% straight and 100% gay — and most of us fall somewhere in between.

I have to say, out of all the theories I’ve heard trying to explain why we’re attracted to who we’re attracted to, this makes the most sense to me. While some argue that you’re born with your sexual orientation and others remain steadfast by the idea that it’s a conscious choice, the logical conclusion seems to be that the box you decide to check on the sexuality SAT’s comes from a combination of nature and nurture.

But, if we admit that your placement on the orientation spectrum is dependent on myriad factors — a theory more and more people seem to believe — don’t you also have to accept the validity of more “dangerous” theories such as the belief that a person can choose to become “ungay” or even that prayer can influence sexual attraction?

I mean, a person who’s born, I don’t know, 90% gay or 90% straight (according to the orientation scale) probably isn’t going to be swayed by an experience or some really creative Bible study classes. But, if someone’s born in that 30 to 70 range, it’s not too far-fetched to suggest that people such as Dr. Marcus Bachmann (husband the horsemaiden of the Apocalypse, Michelle Bachmann) and Dr. Joseph Nicolosi (a psychologist with a really shitty website who believes that therapy is an effective solution for modifying sexual orientation) might be (partially) right.

Maybe there’s truth to the idea that, for some people, the environment they grew up in can definitely help decide their orientation, and maybe there are people who can genuinely be convinced not to be gay (or straight).

Now, I understand the danger of accepting this as truth. It would give fuel to each and every anti-gay doctor, pundit, politician, and person who believes that gayness is curable, and if some gayness can be “cured,” all gayness can be cured. But, what might be even more dangerous is us — the “enlightened and educated” populous — being just as intellectually lazy by completely dismissing the fact that some of us were (and still are) an experience or even a discussion away from being gay (or ungay).

Anyway, people of VSB, I’m curious: In regards to our sexual orientations, do you believe in the spectrum (the theory that our orientation is a combination of nature and nurture and that we all fall somewhere inbetween 100% gay and 100% straight), nature (we’re born the way we are), or nurture (a combination of experiences and conscious choices decide our sexual paths)?

For those who believe in the spectrum, do you also think that a person’s orientation can be changed? If not, why not?

Lastly, do you believe that women’s sexuality is naturally more “fluid” or that both genders are equally fluid but we’ve just been socialized to believe that women have more inherent sexually flexibility?

—The Champ

Filed Under: ,
Damon Young

Damon Young is the editor-in-chief of VSB. He is also a contributing editor for EBONY.com. He resides in Pittsburgh, and he really likes pancakes.

  • Fivegirl

    I’ve always agreed with the spectrum but it’s never occurred to me that just because you’re at a certain point in said spectrum you can shift. To me, being at “40%” or “60%” makes you bisexual, not easily swayed. I have a line sister who says she’s bi, but she seems to be most into girls, so I’d say shes “70%” gay, and there’s just a small part of her that is attracted to men and the possibility of being with one. I think of the spectrum as how much of you is gay or straight, rather than how gay you are compared to other people if that makes sense

    • http://verysmartbrothas.com The Champ

      I think of the spectrum as how much of you is gay or straight, rather than how gay you are compared to other people if that makes sense

      it makes sense, but do you think that circumstances could have made your 70% gay line sister 60% or 80% gay?

      • sandbalance

        Even though, I’m probably 85%-95% straight, I can conceive of the idea of there being some woman out there that I’d enjoy.

        Then again, I’ve never been with another woman, never met a woman in real life that I’d wanna do, and with the exception of Olympic hurdler Lolo Jones, I can’t think of an even semi-famous one that I’d want to do either.

        That said, if I had an awesome experience with a woman, I’m guessing I could become 30% lesbian. Or maybe still 85-95% straight and really enjoying that particular woman.

        • http://verysmartbrothas.com The Champ

          “Even though, I’m probably 85%-95% straight, I can conceive of the idea of there being some woman out there that I’d enjoy.”

          i think this would actually put you in the 65-75 range

    • randomeffery

      >>To me, being at “40%” or “60%” makes you bisexual, not easily swayed. <<

      word.
      everyone's not straight or gay, or in transition. some people are just genuinely attracted to people, and the genitalia that comes attached to them is just a bonus.

      i think from toddler-hood on (if not before), your sexuality & how you perform gender is a combo of nature & nurture. some ppl ARE a discussion or sexual encounter away from being something different than they were yesterday. other people were born straight/gay/bi/asexual & are going to stay that way until they die. it's all g.

      the problem with "curing" homosexuality is that the premise is that it's wrong. and these are people who obviously have not actively chosen to be gay, so 1 it's really problematic to believe there is something inherently wrong w/you (see: michael jackson & lil kim). college girls who are intellectual bisexuals or lesbians, can always come back to their real straight selves, & it's fine. the worst they get are sighs of reliefs & i told you so's from family, and maybe a good telling off by their ex-gf who really IS gay.
      by contrast, if donnie mcclurkin reneges, he risks eternal damnation, his career is kaput (although i can't wait til the gay gospel genre emerges)…it's like his earthly and afterlife survival depends on his straightness. so even if he wasn't really "cured", of course he's going to pretend he is.

      and then also, when you believe a natural impulse of yours is wrong, but you can't control it…you mask it…keep it secret…it becomes a vulnerable spot for you…catholic priests & altar boys, eddie long & the longfellows…it's just not a good look.

      • http://www.twitter.com/drrdb TWIsM

        I don’t know why “Eddie Long and the Longfellows” got me to snort in an attempt not to laugh.

        Anyway the scale in question is likely the Kinsey Sexuality Scale. It’s broken into 7 categories but not percentages. You can get a pretty good idea of it here http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kinsey_scale. It’s a very interesting way to define someone’s sexuality and is much more broad than either gay, straight, or bi. They’ve even added “asexual” to the mix, and I know I’ve met a few people that I’d put in that category.

        • randomeffery

          yeah i actually am familiar with the kinsey scale, i was just saying that people in the middle areas are actually bi, not just on their way to 1 end of the spectrum of the other.

        • coldsweat3

          @randomeffery
          Really liked your comments. To piggyback off that I think they most important part about the Kinsey scale and the percentages mentioned in this post are that according to Kinsey’s research he found hardly no one who was either 100% straight or 100% gay and very few people were even one step from being perfectly one way or the other. SN: Theres an excellent story about his life played by Liam Neeson. In the Kinsey scale most people were actually found to be more bisexual than any other category. While one could take the Christian “cure” or therapy approach i think it overlooks what occurs in nature(fluid sexuality) as being more of the norm than people admit. As a result of fluid sexuality, it would undermine the view of a particular orientation being right/wrong and folks would realize there is no need for a cure but rather they just need to mind their own dang business and let folks play under rainbows if they want.

          • http://thatswhatgemsaid.wordpress.com Gem Jones

            In the Kinsey scale most people were actually found to be more bisexual than any other category. While one could take the Christian “cure” or therapy approach i think it overlooks what occurs in nature(fluid sexuality) as being more of the norm than people admit.

            im so glad you pointed this out. admittedly, i find it very impressive (for lack of a better word) when black men can discuss homosexuality comfortably and factually, esp without having to emphasize or assert their own hetero-ness (if they are, in fact, hetero).

            but what i found even MORE interesting about the Kinsey scale (from the Wiki article anyway) is that more men than women btwn ages 20-35 are considered to be bi-sexual. more often than not, we consider women to be more likely to be bisexual than men, based on whatever perceptions. very intriguing.

            i gotta check out this film with Liam. its been added to my netflix acct!! thanks ;-)

            • Intelligentleman

              @ Gem: Your comment about more men being considered bisexual etc.

              I think this is due to the fact that, as a society, we define masculinity in more strict, narrow terms than we define femininity. Think of young boys (4 or 5 years of age) who older folks might refer to as “sweet”. What’s more likely, that this young boy has had sexual desires for other boys?…or that much of the behavior exhibited by children in general is feminine by nature, and that boys are encouraged away from such feminine behavior (nurture….depending on the nurturer, obviously)? When was the last time any of us looked at a girl that age and thought, “hmmm…she’s a bit butch.”? But a “sweet” acting boy will ALWAYS inspire such comments in our society.

              I make a comment down-feed about ‘desire vs behavior’ where I elaborate a bit on how I think this affect the spectrum (I’d copy/paste bits of it here but I’m commenting via my phone. Forgive my lazy).

      • http://www.wildcougarconfessions.com Wild Cougar

        So you are saying that its wrong to judge someone for being gay, so we should assume that they had no choice? Because if we acknowledge that they may have made a choice, people might judge them?

        Doesn’t that kind of strain logic?

        • randomeffery

          was this directed to me? cuz that’s not what i was saying at all. & if it wasn’t directed to me, my bad!

          more than being “wrong” to judge someone for being gay, it’s pointless.

          i’m saying i think some people really do choose to be gay/straight/bi/asexual/pansexual/flippers(i just made that up). so someone whose primary or sexual inclination was to be attracted to the same gender, could just decide to live a straight life, & vice versa.

          i just think “curing” gayness within the context of christianity is real dangerous, b/c it’s not an empowered decision.
          i think i’m straight-ish. but i could think to myself…”these n-words ain’t bout ish…i’ma find me a down female” (b/c ebonics is my 1st language)…& really leave the fellas alone…and pursue relationships w/women. and if it works out for me, cool. & if it doesn’t, & i’m like wait a minute…females trip just as hard as n-words…and n-words are who i love…i go back to the men, cuz that’s my natural/nurtured tendency. and it has no grave impact on my life. or my afterlife.

          but a christian person who really is gay inside…and decides to be straight…is not making an empowered decision. b/c s(he) is scared about God’s judgment & probably the judgment of their family/friends & being ostracized from the social networks they know & love, in addition to perhaps eternal damnation–& depending on what church you go to, being told how wretched & sinful you & your life are on sunday mornings.

          & at worst, you can become prey to church leaders & others w/malicious intent…who exploit your vulnerability…knowing that you are praying to be straight & for God to take this “sin” away from you…they exploit that to their own ends, engaging you in acts that make you feel worse about yourself, & give them power over you, which is what appears to be the case w/eddie long & his fellows. & the only reason this is allowed to happen is b/c gayness is a sin, so these homo relationships happen in secrecy…if people just acknowledged that people have been gay since forever–at least in written history–it wouldn’t have to happen in secret, and young men would be less susceptible to being taken advantage of by men who have authority over them.

          • http://WWW.ARINZE3000.BLOGSPOT.COM PG ESQ

            randomeffery,

            I feel what she Wild Couger is getting at is the potential for hypocrisy/ illogical arguments that appear in these types of discussions. For example, on one hand, If I were to form the opinion that “gayness” is a choice, I may likely be labeled as uneducated, or worse, a bigot, by my “enlightened” friends. Specifically, one who is forcing their beliefs on others. Yet, on the other hand, there seems to be a passive/active effort to delegitimize any view that is contrary to what progressive/liberal individuals believe is the “right” way to view the world and, for example, “sexual morality”. I say this as a left leaning educated black man without a homophobic bone in my body. My concern is with the stifling of dialogue, it is no better whether conservatives or progressive seek to do this.

            • http://verysmartbrothas.com The Champ

              “I feel what she Wild Couger is getting at is the potential for hypocrisy/ illogical arguments that appear in these types of discussions. For example, on one hand, If I were to form the opinion that “gayness” is a choice, I may likely be labeled as uneducated, or worse, a bigot, by my “enlightened” friends. Specifically, one who is forcing their beliefs on others. Yet, on the other hand, there seems to be a passive/active effort to delegitimize any view that is contrary to what progressive/liberal individuals believe is the “right” way to view the world and, for example, “sexual morality”.

              ***nodding head***

            • http://thatswhatgemsaid.wordpress.com Gem Jones

              PG ESQ,

              i think you and WC are missing the point (or at least the point that i’m getting from randomeffery).

              he even said: more than being “wrong” to judge someone for being gay, it’s pointless.

              its pointless. whether or not some one has a choice in their sexual orientation, judging them (when in the end YOU really dont know for sure one way or the other) doesnt help make society any better. and it damn sure doesnt change them at their core–whatever that core might be. judging them just may cause them to do things in secret, which can often times be more damaging to themselves and society (think of those on the “down low” and spreading HIV because of unprotected sex as a result of failure to admit “homosexuality” and thus failure to admit needing to use protection) in the long run.

              • http://thatswhatgemsaid.wordpress.com Gem Jones

                note: this isnt to invalidate either of your points. i think the points you both made hold water. i just dont think they address what randomeffery was saying (at least what i gather from what he was saying)

              • randomeffery

                yep you did a great job at being a million times more succinct than me, cuz that really was all i was saying!

                also, i’m a “she”.

              • http://WWW.ARINZE3000.BLOGSPOT.COM PG ESQ

                Gem Jones,

                (love that name by the way) … i agree with you 100%, my only issue is the use/definition of the term “judging”. I am not sure if you are equating the term “judging” with the term “opinion”, for me the two are not the same. A conservative stating his opinion on ones freewill to be gay or straight, is not judging, its an opinion. Now, to be fair, him saying that a gay couple will “burn in h*ll” IS in fact judging, but for me their is a clear distinction there. I just worry that in today’s PC society, even stating an opinion without malice can be seen as judging and therefore is a bad thing.
                This topic is a complex/tough one, but reminds me of a quote by Presidente Obama that i love:

                “I am reminded that no matter how much Christians who oppose homosexuality may claim that they hate the sin but love the sinner, such a judgment inflicts pain on good people.”

                sorry to be long winded and for my lack of clarity in the earlier post.

            • au napptural

              You’ve said it all for today, PG. I’m going to just come back tomorrow. :-)

            • randomeffery

              i actually strongly believe that a lot of people’s orientation is by choice, and others’ is based on what they feel is genuinely their natural inclination. and i don’t think either case is more legitimate than the other, as long as people are allowed to freely be themselves.

              i don’t feel this is true in the case of people in the church who are “cured” of homosexuality or choose to be straight in an effort to get right w/God and avoid eternal damnation.

              i don’t want to stifle anyone’s point of view, just stating my own.

              • http://WWW.ARINZE3000.BLOGSPOT.COM PG ESQ

                Hi randomeffery,

                I apologize, I did not intend to accuse you personally of stifling conversation. i was simply making an observation that i have seen more and more in the context of hot button social issues such as gay marriage (NY) and gun control (Gabby Giffords). It bothers me that folks cannot speak frankly and honestly about these matters without being called a Godless constitution-trampling socialist on one hand or a backwoods slack-jawed racist on the other.

      • Taylormay

        lol hopefullly God doesn’t strike me down for this but one of the reasons I watch Sunday Best is to watch pastor Donny’s facial expressions when interacting with the male contestants. I have no problem with him being gay but it seems that the whole “‘i’m cured” b.s. is connfusing young people and people that have been raised to believe that homosexuality is a sin. Its kind of like a girl becoming anorexic or self concious after seeing a magazine cover of her favorite celeb not knowing its photoshopped. When you see people who you don’t know but you think you do/have a connection with and they seem to have figured things out that you haven’t… I think that f*cks a lot of people up.

        • au napptural

          I don’t see it as being different from anything else ppl struggle with. If McClurkin was struggling not to have premarital sex and had funny interactions with the female contestants, we wouldn’t even think about it. He’s doing what he feels is right. My comment on the OP is, sure for some people (I think 30% of those claiming gayness) it is totally organic inborn placement on the scale. Does that mean anything in regards to the options of the situation? I think no. People are born with the genes to plenty of things, but that doesn’t mean they automatically become those things (people with tendencies towards addiction, for example).

          The other 70%, environment and experience. I’ll be glad when ppl acknowledge the vast amount of unhealthy behavior people refuse to talk about, under the cloak of that being their authentic gay self. Rampant promiscuity, risky sexual practices, and aberrant behavior are always signs of underlying issues, regardless of sexual preference.

      • LA2Tally

        there is a beginnings of a gay gospel genre already.

        Tonex, who was always an “alternative” gospel singer came out a few years ago. He releases music now under the title B. Slade.

    • CC

      This makes total sense to me. I have always endorsed the spectrum, and although most people I talk to hate the concept of it (because it suggests that things aren’t so black and white) I wonder if this spectrum should be through self-identification only, expert opinion only, or some combination of the two. A lot of people would like to suggest that they are one of the few hundred percenters, but in my outside opinion they would be leaning toward 80%, or even 60% in some cases.

  • http://twitter.com/#!/Mailuv7 Mailuv7

    I agree that we all fall somewhere on the spectrum. I don’t think anyone is 100% anything. I also definitely think that if you do something enough you’ll probably start to enjoy it, or else you wouldn’t persist in doing it. If one chooses to be gay, then there must be people who choose to be straight. I don’t think anyone really wants to unpack what that could possibly mean for themselves.

    Read a funny sign: Hate gays? Well blame the straight people who keep making them!

    • http://verysmartbrothas.com The Champ

      “I also definitely think that if you do something enough you’ll probably start to enjoy it, or else you wouldn’t persist in doing it.”

      i think this is kind of circular thinking. basically you’re saying that if i didnt like ice cream but started eating it everyday, i’d be forced to “like” it eventually because if i didnt like it, i wouldnt be eating it everyday

      • http://twitter.com/#!/Mailuv7 Mailuv7

        Not that you would be forced, but if you’re eating it of your own free will, why would you continue if you didn’t like it? I was thinking of 1st time heterosexual s3x. For a lot of girls/women it’s painful and or uncomfortable, but you keep trying knowing/wanting/thinking it will get better because you liked some aspect of it.

        • CurlyTop

          NO!! I was thinking about having my first time recently (yesterday, forgive me lil baby Jesus sleeping in the manger) and I keep hearing the same thing. I talked to my older cousin and she actually teared up telling my about her first time. I don’t want a tilted uterus like one VSS or to end up in the ER. :( I like being a VSV but I really like this guy too. #kanyeshrug #bojanglestapdance

          • Imperfect

            Having a tilted uterus isn’t a bad thing, or rare for that matter. My uterus is tilted and my gynocologist thinks my uterus is beautiful. Lol. Really…he tells me every year how beautiful my uterus is

            • http://www.theleftsidepoets.wordpress.com MicTheMessenger

              So is your uterus like a decked out fetus house or something?

              • Imperfect

                Lol. Yeah…ETV’s (embryo) Fetal Cribs

            • CurlyTop

              I luvs you for this. Lol.

            • http://twitter.com/#!/AbRock3000aNC9I BmoreCreative

              I’ve always thought of the uterus as multi purpose room. #reallyrandom

              ps. titled uterus sounds like the name of prince’s unreleased album…

        • http://verysmartbrothas.com The Champ

          “Not that you would be forced, but if you’re eating it of your own free will, why would you continue if you didn’t like it?”

          maybe because you were told you were supposed to or you didn’t have any other options

          • http://twitter.com/#!/Mailuv7 Mailuv7

            But is it your free will if others have told you that is what your supposed to do, or if you only do it because you don’t have any options?

            May I have an example, because idk if I’m following? Please and thanks!

  • http://panamaenrique.wordpress.com Malik

    I believe the spectrum has some validity. I don’t believe you can ‘cure’ anything though. It’s flawed thinking because there are more areas of sexuality than simply ‘gay’ or ‘straight’.

    • http://verysmartbrothas.com The Champ

      It’s flawed thinking because there are more areas of sexuality than simply ‘gay’ or ‘straight’.

      what else is there?

      • http://twitter.com/#!/Mailuv7 Mailuv7

        asexual, pansexual?

      • http://panamaenrique.wordpress.com Malik

        Asexual and bisexuals (you could argue pansexuals as a separate category as well). Then there is the entire battle of arguing gender, intersex people, and transgender people (Yeah Mr. Garrison!).

        • Tx10inch

          There is no such thing as bi-sexuality in my book. If you enjoy having sex with someone of the same sex in any way….You gay.

          • DiaShoni

            So the fact that the same person could enjoy sex with someone of the opposite sex is irrelevant?

            • Yoles

              exactly… if a person truly seeks and enjoys intercourse with both males and females then what??

            • Tx10inch

              yep. gay. I just believe straight men don’t enjoy having sex with other men. Period. It won’t cross a straight man’s mind to even think about getting it in like that. A completely straight female may find another woman attractive but would never have nor enjoy sex with her. But the curious one’s who do file it under “experimenting” “being sexually free” or “one and done” and never do it again. Jury’s still out on that in my book…

              • DiaShoni

                Ok, but we’re not talking about straight men and women, or gay men and women. Why do you believe there is no such thing as bisexuality?

                • Tx10inch

                  Ok, maybe I should clarify. To ME its extremely hard to find the gray area. Is this person living a “bi-sexual” lifestyle? Was it a one time act of curiosity? or a night of spice between you, your man and that skippa he been eyeballin?

                  Some people use bi-sexuality as a cop-out cause they want the cake AND ice cream. But if you ask me (and you did) If you’re able to engage in relations with the same sex, technically and bibically you are gay. At the very least, they’ve engaged in an obvious homosexual act.

                  And to all, i realize my lifestyle far from perfect so please miss me with the homophobe and don’t throw stones comments. I luv and respect errrbody. Just not what errrbody do. I’m entitled to that.

                  • Imperfect

                    …if you want the cake and the icecream…as you say…you are, by definition bisexual, so that’s not really a cop out.

                    • Kema

                      Exactly! Some people really like cake AND ice cream. Who are we to tell them to choose one.

                  • Lise

                    All I want to know is what is this bisexual/gay “lifestyle” people talk about. Because I think I must be doing something wrong. I thought I was going to work, paying bills, trying to better myself and living my life just like everyone else. But if there are some bisexual things I should be doing, can somebody let me know?

                    • Yoles

                      +1

                    • LMNOP

                      +2

                      I always wonder what that means.

              • Imperfect

                Refer to my post below

    • http://thatswhatgemsaid.wordpress.com Gem Jones

      in our society, we try to ignore sexuality as much as possible. but if we HAVE to assign sexual orientation, we pigeon hole ppl into only 1 of 2 catergories–gay or straight. the bi-sexual bi-curious, transgendered, intersexed, etc are forced to belong in one or the other (or ignored altogether) because as a society we are apparently unwilling to accept the complexities of our sexuality/sexual nature. i mean, some still believe that being gay is “abnormal.” so to be anything more complicated than that is incomprehensible by society’s standards and thus doesnt deserve consideration.

      • Yoles

        good points Gem!

      • A Woman’s Eyes

        Very well said!

    • http://www.wildcougarconfessions.com Wild Cougar

      What is the difference between cure and change? The word cure has negative or positive connotations based on your bias. But if a person changes their orientation permanently, you could say they were cured. Especially if they didn’t want the previous orientation. Why would you deny the person who was able to change through prayer or therapy the ability to say they were cured if they are happy with their new orientation?

      • http://verysmartbrothas.com The Champ

        “What is the difference between cure and change? The word cure has negative or positive connotations based on your bias. But if a person changes their orientation permanently, you could say they were cured. ”

        yeah, i agree. i think some people are getting caught up in semantics here

      • http://panamaenrique.wordpress.com Malik

        Cure implies that something is inherently wrong or ‘diseased’ about it. You can not want something that doesn’t mean you stop being inclined to it. Gay men have always started families with straight women. That doesn’t stop them from being gay. You can pray or go to therapy all you please and only have heterosexual relations for the rest of your life. That doesn’t mean you’re not gay anymore though. Also, given their suicide rate, I highly doubt the majority of them are happy after ‘praying the gay away’.

        • Kema

          I agree! I dont think the word is cure or change…. I think its suppress. Those feelings are still there but they are not acting on them.

          • http://www.wildcougarconfessions.com Wild Cougar

            How do you know the feelings are still there?

            • Kema

              Because they are gay! lol!

              Imagine what it would take for you to stop liking men.

              Even when we are in the church and we try to be sanctified by abstaining from chex. Those feeling do not go away. You can be strong and learn how to successfully suppress them but they are still there somewhere.

              • http://www.wildcougarconfessions.com Wild Cougar

                If you are talking about somebody who is not you, then you don’t know.

                • http://thatswhatgemsaid.wordpress.com Gem Jones

                  this seems good in theory to say because obviously we can only know for sure about ourslves, but then we wouldnt be able to talk about ANYTHING that deals with society or civilization or groups of ppl based on past and current behaviors because we only know about ourselves for sure (and some of us dont even know that much, but i digress…).

                  our whole lives are built upon ASSUMPTIONS based on historical facts that are extrapolated to draw conclusions. thats how we ALL operate, whether you like it or not.

                • Kema

                  “A sexual orientation is not a disease. Attempting to cure homosexuality is like trying to cure having red hair. One can mask having red hair with dye and one can mask homosexuality by acting straight, but one does not cure homosexuality or red hair.”

                  Thought this quote said what I’m trying to…

                  http://www.createdgay.com/cure.html

                  Now if someone is gay due to nurture or they chose to be gay then maybe they can be ‘cured’. But i dont think the majority of gay people choose to be that way.

                  • http://thatswhatgemsaid.wordpress.com Gem Jones

                    using the word “cure” for some one who may CHOOSE to be gay is problematic for me. ppl with [some] cancer can be cured, but does that mean they CHOSE to be diseased??

                    the very argument that homosexuality can or should be “cured” makes it seem like its a state in which is BAD and abnormal and thus needs to be made GOOD or normal.

                    so what if some one chooses to be gay? perhaps their choosing to be gay makes them more apt to be able to change their sexual preference, but does that mean its something that needs external interference? WHY is it necessary to NOT be gay?

                    these are the questions i have about this whole “turning gays ungay” phenomenon and i ask them to the universe, not necessarily to the person(s) i’m responding to in this post.

                  • http://www.wildcougarconfessions.com Wild Cougar

                    I don’t think its that black and white. Whether or not it is a disease us really a matter of semantics/ value judgment. You’re presenting a value based argument and trying to force the facts to fit that argument.

                    • Kema

                      I think when you are gay it is that black and white. Thats what most hetero people dont understand. That gay person may feel that their being gay is as much a part of their being as the red hair they were born with.

                • Deeds

                  If you are talking about somebody who is not you, then you don’t know.

                  Well many people that are “ex-gay” talk about being tempted or the devil tempting them. I remember reading a slate article about a woman that claimed to no longer be a lesbian and one of the things she mentioned was sometimes if she sees a woman in the gym she has to look away so as not to be s.exually attracted to her. That to me sounds like those feelings are still there.

                  • http://www.wildcougarconfessions.com Wild Cougar

                    All I’m saying is you can only take a persons word for how they feel. If a person says they’ve changed or been cured, you have to believe them.

                    • http://thatswhatgemsaid.wordpress.com Gem Jones

                      If a person says they’ve changed or been cured, you have to believe them.

                      not if in that same breath they admit to having to go to great lengths to control those gay desires that apparently still reside in them. masking ones true sexual preference is not the same as changing or being “cured” (which again i think “curing” homosexuality is a completely ridiculous notion to begin with) it.

        • A Woman’s Eyes

          Yes that is exactly my observation. High suicide rate indicates unhappiness.

  • Andi

    “In regards to our s3xual orientations, do you believe in the spectrum (the theory that our orientation is a combination of nature and nurture), nature (we’re born the way we are), or nurture (a combination of experiences and conscious choices decide our s3xual paths)?”

    All of the above.

    Regarding the spectrum, I actually think that this applies more to women. Female s3xtualiy is more fluid. At least, I’ve never heard of any man being a little bit gay.

    I don’t think gayness can be “cured”. You may choose to repress those feelings, perhaps with some success, but they’ll never go away.

    • http://twitter.com/#!/Mailuv7 Mailuv7

      Yeah it’s more acceptable for women and white frat boys to explore their sexuality. Whereas other men are not given the license to “experiment” unless it’s in jest or a way to humiliate and ‘feminize’ another man.

      • Andi

        My question is do other kinds of men ‘want’ to experiment and they are just afraid/ashamed/repressed?

        • http://panamaenrique.wordpress.com Malik

          The only way you’re ever going to get answer even close to honest is a very well paid anonymous survey conducted via messenger hawks.

          • Yoles

            even in anonymous surveys people lie… so iono if this would work either Malik

            • Imperfect

              But I think that’s because people don’t truly believe in anonymous surveys. I always think they can track it to my IP address, identify my handwriting, know according to when it was handed in…
              However, I do agree with your general point that we will never know

          • A Woman’s Eyes

            More honest than anonymous surveys are anonymous no strings attached sex websites where people list their marital status and the type of sex they wish to have with strangers they will meet up with for it. Heterosexual married men frequenting the site for sex with men. People seeking out sex that contradicts who they are in their public life.

        • randomeffery

          another way to find out…is to have a gay friend…& then they can tell you about all the straight guys they’ve messed with.

          i mean at the end of the day…warm mouths feel really good in the right places…if you’re open-minded, it just is what it is.

    • http://verysmartbrothas.com The Champ

      “Regarding the spectrum, I actually think that this applies more to women. Female s3xtualiy is more fluid. At least, I’ve never heard of any man being a little bit gay.”

      do you think that women are naturally more fluid or we’ve just been socialized to think that way?

      • http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=M5FR1LGsT7E TheAnti-Cool

        I believe that’s how we’ve been socialized. While I can find women attractive, I’m not sexually attracted to women. Never have been. But when I say that I get a side-eye like “Yeah right.”

        • Yoles

          that’s so crazy for people to think that people have to be sexually attracted to everyone they find attractive.. those are completely two different things regardless of the orientation of the person…

          • CurlyTop

            I find Nicki Minaj to be attractive and have expressed this countless time but somehow it is always heard as “I want to smang Nicki Minaj.” This doesn’t mean that I’m sexually attracted to the Harajuku Barbie, I just appreciate her plastic/real body.

            #TeamMinaj

            • http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=M5FR1LGsT7E TheAnti-Cool

              I feel the same about Janet. Ms. Jackson if you nasty.

            • Imperfect

              I feel the same way about Jill Scott (before all the weightloss)

              • Yonnie 3000

                I feel the same way about Jada Pinkett-Smith… Except for the part about not being sexually attracted to her.

      • LA Red

        I think we’ve been socialized to think that. You always see two women kissing in a movie and it’s SUPPOSED to be hot and not seen as lesbian activity. It’s never two men.

        I have a girl friend that says “We all like girls when we’re drunk.” Uh no but whatever blows your skirt up.

        • http://panamaenrique.wordpress.com Malik

          American Pie 2 had two guys kissing. But it was played as gag rather than something that’s arousing. It was hilarious though. Trotting around pron forums way back when, I have found out a surprising amount of women enjoy guy on guy. That’s mostly because the males in those flicks are actually ‘attractive’ while the ones in straight flicks are usually considered ugly.

          • Sweet Sass

            I’ll admit to that. Two hot guys are better than one.

        • DQ

          Regarding men and women kissing, I don’t think it’s portrayal in media is a result of socialization at all. I think (many) men actually like to see two attractive women interact intimately.

          To me it’s akin to how many men like to get b0obie/b0oty pics whereas many (not all but many) women (on this very site) expressed disintrest even repugnance at being a recipient of peen pics. I don’t think society taught anyone that, there are just some things that turn some folks on, and some things that don’t.

          • Yoles

            the repugnance was expressed at unsolicited peen pics…

            • http://verysmartbrothas.com The Champ

              the repugnance was expressed at unsolicited peen pics…

              unsolicited or not, the point is that we (men) generally are elated to get any type of pics, whether it’s a booty, a boob, a thigh, or an elbow, while women usually don’t share that elation

            • DQ

              As Champ noted, the solicitation (or lack thereof) would not matter to most men. Some things are just different (at least that’s my theory for right now)

              • Yoles

                @ Champ & DQ
                hmmmm so if a woman that you are absolutely not attracted to or see in that way sends you unsolicited booty, breasts, toto shots you would automatically appreciate them??

                • http://panamaenrique.wordpress.com Malik

                  I encourage all VSS that have my phone # or follow me on Twitter to text/DM me as many booty, breasts, toto shots as you so desire.

                • RG

                  I think Malik adequately answered your question. I endorse this statement.

                • Imperfect

                  Toto?? Lol

                • DQ

                  Yoles

                  Were it that this was like 5 years ago, and you had asked this question I would have responded by posting an e-mail and an offer to prove me wrong…

                  …but it’s 2011. So yeah I won’t… but 5 years ago? Yeah. Know this.

                  #BehavesHimselfNow
                  #OfftheMarket

                • Justmetheguy

                  ” hmmmm so if a woman that you are absolutely not attracted to or see in that way sends you unsolicited booty, breasts, toto shots you would automatically appreciate them??”

                  Yep. She gotta be some kinda hideous/repulsive for me to not appreciate her naked parts. And I personally don’t get this whole “don’t see them in that way” thing y’all do…I mean, maybe if it comes to someone you’re considering dating/wifin up, but not sex. My closest female friend(s) can get it if she’s attractive. Has nothing to do with whether she’s a friend or not…ya know?

            • Justmetheguy

              @Yoles- Good point, but I’ll take unsolicited booty/boobie pics ALL DAY ERRYDAY! That’s the difference between the (hetero-)sexes lol

      • Andi

        I actually think that it’s more natural. Though I’m strictly d!ckly, I think the feminine form is so incredible. I find it appealing in a way I don’t think heteros3xual males find the masculine form appealing. It’s beautiful to me, but it doesn’t make me wanna kiss a girl. No Katy Perry.

        • http://panamaenrique.wordpress.com Malik

          Very seldom does the male form rise above being vulgar and disgusting. And even those few times when it does, it’s achieved by concept rather than glory or an ode to our bodies.

          • Andi

            I agree. Why do you think that is?

            • http://panamaenrique.wordpress.com Malik

              The female body can be beautiful in a far larger variety of ways than men. For men, it’s pretty much monolithic.

              • Imperfect

                For men, it’s pretty much monolithic

                Quite literally. Lol

              • http://www.wildcougarconfessions.com Wild Cougar

                I love the male form. Especially the brown model. But girls are still hotter. No homo. For real. I’ve tried, people want me to like women, I just don’t.

                • Justmetheguy

                  ” you can make the argument that this is a socialization issue as well. I mean, if you look at the freaky-ass ancient Greeks, they obviously thought the male form was more “beautiful” than the female, as most of their most famous statues and sh*t are of partially or completely nude men.”

                  Yep. Cause them n*ggas was gay…and pedophiles too…smh lol

                  ” But girls are still hotter.”

                  Exactly. “Girl you got it bad, glad I’m not one, but yet you got it good. You are the hot one.” Andre wasn’t lying.

            • Justmetheguy

              ” I agree. Why do you think that is?”

              Well, even though you (and your pretty smile) weren’t talking to me, I’ll attempt to give a pseudo-scientific answer based on the rest of males’ evolutionary sexual functions.

              Men are hard-wired to pass their genes on the next generation (often and by a variety of partners to ensure that enough of their genes survived and carried on their DNA). To waste time and energy being attracted to other men would only hamper our progress. Logically it doesn’t make much sense for our genes to be bi-curious. (We already talked about how 80% of men are NOT getting laid. Historically it was probably even more brutal in most places. Don’t believe me, read the Red Queen by Matthew Ridley).

              Women on the other hand are pretty much guaranteed to be able to pass on their genes (unless said woman is barren) cause a horny (hetero-)man will mount any person with a vagina. There’s hardly EVER any type of pressure about whether or not a woman can find a mate to pro-create with (the perpetual issue for women is finding a suitable/valuable/desirable mate who won’t bounce on her once he’s knocked her up).
              So their genes had the luxury of experimenting with other forms of sexuality without jeopardizing their chances of passing on their DNA successfully. Also having a sexual organ built solely for pleasure (that your own sex tends to understand and appreciate much more than the opposite sex) tends to play a large factor in women’s open-mindedness to homo-sexual relations. All that plus nurture and the concepts of masculinity and femininity. I’ve been rambling so I’ll stop here. Hopefully some of that made some sense lol

              • Deeds

                Your last paragraph was pretty interesting and made me go hmmm.

                • Justmetheguy

                  ” that being said .. i believe a lot of women have “lesbian tendencies”. we wouldnt marry a woman, be with a woman, nor have a relationship with one, but can be attracted to them. unlike most straight men.”

                  So basically what you’re saying (and I agree with you) is that a lot of women are more or less the same as the down-low men, except that they don’t actually have to be secretive with theirs? As unfair as that sounds, it’s a double standard that I don’t mind. I would let my girlfriend or wife experiment depending on the situation and the other woman involved. And to be honest I’m not even all gung-ho about woman on woman or actively trying to get a threesome (wouldn’t mind one, but I’m not dying to have one either).

          • http://verysmartbrothas.com The Champ

            “Very seldom does the male form rise above being vulgar and disgusting. And even those few times when it does, it’s achieved by concept rather than glory or an ode to our bodies.”

            you can make the argument that this is a socialization issue as well. I mean, if you look at the freaky-ass ancient Greeks, they obviously thought the male form was more “beautiful” than the female, as most of their most famous statues and sh*t are of partially or completely nude men.

            • http://panamaenrique.wordpress.com Malik

              And look what happened to their economy.

              • http://thatswhatgemsaid.wordpress.com Gem Jones

                i think it was the pedophilia that may have done them in…

            • Kema

              They also probably thought male sexuality was more fluid. So I think it is socialization.

          • Justmetheguy

            ” Very seldom does the male form rise above being vulgar and disgusting. And even those few times when it does, it’s achieved by concept rather than glory or an ode to our bodies.”

            Exactly! Well said Malik. It’s all about the concept. Conceptually I’ll notice that a guy’s body is built in a way that very few men can achieve, but would like to emulate. I’ll give him props and say “Respek” (then do the Ali G finger snap), but that’s always as far as it goes. Now if guy starts wondering something like “hmmm, I wonder what his peen looks like.” or something to that effect. He can’t actually call himself heterosexual in my humble opinion

      • Deeds

        do you think that women are naturally more fluid or we’ve just been socialized to think that way?

        Also, women don’t want a man that has been with another man even once. Many men don’t mind if their woman has been with another woman and want that. Hell I had a bf ask me one time if he could watch another woman go down on me.

  • http://fatgrlatheart.com fatgrlatheart

    nature. not nurture.

    and if someone changes their mind, it just means they weren’t 100% sure about which they preferred or are just bi-sexual, but i dont think someone or something can influence the gay out of you (or into you). it’s who you are. if it was environment-driven, what on earth would make you gayer?? other gay people? then we wouldnt expect to see gay people in “non-gay” environments (i.e. a young black boy growing up in any city that has a street named after MLK surrounded by a significant number of homophobic men).

    p.s. yay for new york legalizing same-sex marriage. #progress

    • http://fatgrlatheart.com fatgrlatheart

      that being said .. i believe a lot of women have “lesbian tendencies”. we wouldnt marry a woman, be with a woman, nor have a relationship with one, but can be attracted to them. unlike most straight men.

    • http://verysmartbrothas.com The Champ

      “if it was environment-driven, what on earth would make you gayer??”

      maybe, for some people, being raised a certain way or having certain things happen to them when they were young can permanently affect the way they think and feel about sex

      • http://twitter.com/#!/Mailuv7 Mailuv7

        cosign. We are constantly bombarded by sexual images and messages. So imagine a child who does not know how to make sense of these messages. There’s always the debate that surrounds homosexuality when it is revealed that a gay man was molested as a child. Is he gay because he was introduced to that by an adult predator and therefore it is deviant behavior , or would he have been gay anyways, and he just so happened to have been abused?

        • Tx10inch

          There’s always the debate that surrounds homosexuality when it is revealed that a gay man was molested as a child. Is he gay because he was introduced to that by an adult predator and therefore it is deviant behavior , or would he have been gay anyways, and he just so happened to have been abused?

          I’ve always wondered this too. But I’ve since subscribed to the notion that a sexually abused young boy will grow up confused about what he should feel and why and being unlikely to properly process his emotions for the opposite sex, he does for what feels right to him. Homosexuality.

          • http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=M5FR1LGsT7E TheAnti-Cool

            Are you saying that any boy that has been sexually abused will eventually turn to homosexuality? What if he was abused by a woman and not a man?

            • Tx10inch

              Just my opinion but I believe there’s a strong chance he could without the proper guidance and strong circle of people in his life to guide him through it. You throw puberty in along with emotions of sexual confusion and the pressures of society to be a certain way. It’s an emotional timebomb. Whether abused by male or female, sexual abuse can devastate a young child. Look at that movie Antowine Fisher. Abused by his female relative. Messed him up bad.

              • Deeds

                Well of course being sexually abused as a child messes you up, but it doesn’t make you gay so to speak if you aren’t. There are plenty of men that were abused as children but still straight. How their relationships and interactions with the opposite s.ex may be messed up but they are still attracted to women. With the Antowine Fisher example, he was still straight even though he had problems getting in relationships.

                • http://www.wildcougarconfessions.com Wild Cougar

                  Why can’t abuse make you gay? Somebody give me one good reason. Doesn’t have to be a scientific one, just one that makes sense.

                  • http://mrweethomas.wordpress.com Mr. Wee Thomas

                    I suppose if abuse can make you gay it can also make you straight. I think the reason you find resistance is because abuse isn’t about being straight or gay. It is like rape – no committed because someone was so aroused they were unable to help themselves. At best, statistics show that untreated abuse leads to future abuse. Abusers tend to be equal opportunity against those they can get away with it. Gay or straight doesn’t really motivate their actions.

                  • http://panamaenrique.wordpress.com Malik

                    Considering South African men like to gang rape lesbian women to ‘correct them’ and the rape victims are still attracted to women afterwards, I don’t think abuse changes your orientation.

                    • http://www.wildcougarconfessions.com Wild Cougar

                      But the fact that it doesn’t change some people does not mean that it can’t. Especially if you are talking about a child.

                    • Justmetheguy

                      ” But the fact that it doesn’t change some people does not mean that it can’t. Especially if you are talking about a child.”

                      Yeah, I agree. I don’t think that it can’t. I just think that it doesn’t have to. It can be the straw (actually can’t call it a straw, it’s more like a stone) that broke the camels back so to speak, but I don’t think that abuse/molestation alone can lead to someone being gay. I think like someone said unthread that it is more likely to cause that person to be an abuser (and I don’t think sex matters in those cases. They’ll abuse a boy or girl) than to cause them to be gay. Not saying it has no impact on their sexuality though. But as a male, if you’re a 0 on the Kinsey scale, I would imagine that it might just make you more likely to be a rapist (just like being the victim of prison rape) than to make you want to be homo-sexual….but then again I wouldn’t really know. Haven’t done or read any extensive studies on it. Too depressing…

        • A Woman’s Eyes

          Or he could have already been gay and the adult male pedophile noticed he was different and exploited it knowing the child would keep it a secret due to shame, thus he’d get away with it.

      • Imperfect

        maybe, for some people, being raised a certain way or having certain things happen to them when they were young can permanently affect the way they think and feel about sex

        I think this can be problematic. Cause people will try to raise straight kids.
        A friend of mine (jokingly…I hope) said that she needed to stop listenin to Keri Hilson around her boys, cause her 4 year old was singin Pretty Girl Rock.
        It kind of goes hand-in-hand with last weeks “Man up” and trying to raise boys to be mans men (?)

        • Justmetheguy

          ” It kind of goes hand-in-hand with last weeks “Man up” and trying to raise boys to be mans men (?)”

          I was all for killin the misusage and abuse of the term “man up” cause hypermasculinity is so destructive and detrimental to black people’s progress, but in this case I’m with your homegirl. Just in case there’s validity to this whole fluid sexuality and nurture plays a factor talk, I wouldn’t let this type of behavior slide. No boy should be singing pretty girl rock. After he gets the side eye, he’s gonna get his first introduction to the timeless phrase we all love and hate. “Man up lil nigga!” lol

    • 90sgagirl

      …I Sometimes environment during formative years has a large part to do with sexuality.if a little boy is constantly around women at home and extracurricular activities during the ages of birth to preteen..I’m pretty sure he would have a lot of feminine tendencies (phrases, mannerisms, etc.) because he isn’t around/exposed to male environment…

      • http://twitter.com/#!/Mailuv7 Mailuv7

        How would we explain AA boys who don’t have a male figure in the home? They are among the most homophobic.

        • http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=M5FR1LGsT7E TheAnti-Cool

          Their mamas are always telling them to “man up”.

          • Imperfect

            +1

      • k-steez

        but i think we’ve only recently begin to conflate men having feminine mannerisms with being gay- it used to be that men who were always around women may speak, or move their hands like a woman, but they were still straight- there used to be men who were feminine but heterosexual

        same with girls- if i grew up in this era, but dressed/behaved the same as i did when i was younger and still played basketball, many would assume i was gay- hell, i might assume i was gay! it seems like there’s no space for tomboys anymore- if you’re a girl who prefers wearing pants and “boy” colors and plays ball, you must be gay- if you’re a guy that’s into fashion and gets along with girls you must be gay

        that didn’t use to be the case

        • au napptural

          That’s half the problem today. Any time someone steps out of prescribed gender roles today they are labeled gay or something else. I was watching Tyra (as my punishment for liking Single Ladies lol) and she had these children that claimed to be transgendered. I was fascinated by those kids! They were so young (3 or 4 when they started and about 7-9 now), but because they said they wanted to dress like the opposite of their gender or be the opposite, their parents let them! Can you imagine?!

          The child doesn’t know what they are saying, they don’t mean it with all this weight the adults put on it. Talking this foolishness, “oh, little Johnny was born knowing who he was.” No he wasn’t, or else he wouldn’t need parents. People need to use freaking common sense. If their child said they wanted to stay up all night or not eat their veggies would they listen? I hope not, but these parents today, smh. Sometimes these children just want to have fun, and do them. Girls are tomboyish sometimes and little boys might play dress-up and -shocker- it won’t scar them for life. But now it seems gender roles are more rigid then ever.

        • Justmetheguy

          ” if you’re a girl who prefers wearing pants and “boy” colors and plays ball, you must be gay- if you’re a guy that’s into fashion and gets along with girls you must be gay

          that didn’t use to be the case”

          Really? I always thought it was the opposite. It seems like metro-sexual’s the new gangsta for men, and women are getting more into the tomboyish looks. Especially the short hair as empowerment stuff. My dad and uncles thought it was feminine for a man to wear red. If anything we’re letting the bounds of masculinity grow with time as opposed to shrink…at least that’s been my experience. People from the last couple of generations seem a lot more close-minded about sexuality and self-expression. The fact that we’re talking about a spectrum that allows for a man to be classified as “a little bit gay” would be ABSURD 30 years ago.

  • http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=M5FR1LGsT7E TheAnti-Cool

    Anyway, people of VSB, I’m curious: In regards to our sexual orientations, do you believe in the spectrum (the theory that our orientation is a combination of nature and nurture), nature (we’re born the way we are), or nurture (a combination of experiences and conscious choices decide our sexual paths)?

    I believe that most homosexuality is nature, meaning that is just who someone was meant to be. For that reason, I don’t believe in the spectrum theory; either you’re gay or you’re not. Now, where would that leave bi-sexuals? I don’t know. Is that where those that aren’t gay by “nature” fall? I’m sure even some bi-sexuals would say that it is still not a choice that they are attracted to both men and women.

    I do think that children can be influenced by their environment but if your little boy likes boys I don’t think there is much you can do to change that without causing serious emotional and psychological damage to the child. Can you imagine everyone around you telling you that everything you think and feel is wrong and you need to be “fixed” and/or prayed over because of it?

    I think that as long as people believe that most homosexuals are so by choice, they will always be seen as “abnormal” or “deviants” and not as regular as everyone else.

    • http://verysmartbrothas.com The Champ

      “I believe that most homosexuality is nature, meaning that is just who someone was meant to be. For that reason, I don’t believe in the spectrum theory; either you’re gay or you’re not”

      you just contradicted yourself (kind of). by stressing that “most” homosexuality is nature, you’re also saying that you believe that some has to be nurture. if that’s the case, you don’t truly believe the “you’re gay or you’re not” theory

      • http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=M5FR1LGsT7E TheAnti-Cool

        I do believe that either you’re gay or you’re not. However, there are those that feel they are physically/sexually/emotionally attracted to both genders somewhat equally. So if that is the case, are they gay or straight and just choosing to play both teams for whatever reason?

        Now I’m not sure what I’m trying to say and I think I may have contradicted myself even further. Perhaps I really believe in the spectrum after all. I should probably just stop right now and rethink some things.

        • http://verysmartbrothas.com The Champ

          Now I’m not sure what I’m trying to say and I think I may have contradicted myself even further.

          that’s aiight. it happens to the best of us

      • LittleBitofJazz

        I honestly believe that it can only be nurture, forget the bible & everything else ( & nothing against my gay community honestly you guys are really cool) because we all got here because of 2 reasons: that man you call your father skeeted you out & that woman you call your mother realeased you into this thing we call a “world”…. So with that being said one’s sexuality is based on a mixture of choice(do as thou wilt), influence, experience, & the human lust of flesh. Lastly had it not been for the grace of a union between male & female your ass wouldn’t be here to have a choice. ( but to each’s own) *** REALITY CHECK ***

        • ChrisChris

          Yes. But that only acknowledges sex only. An act that can happen regardless if the person is attracted to the person or not. @LittleBitofJazz

          Gay people have been having sex with the opposite s’e’x forever. But that is still only a s’e’x act.

        • rox1

          Just my 2cents…My oldest son was born gay, there was never a choice for him. While my sisters boys (3 and 4 at the time) would be running around a store my son (3 at the time) would be feeling and comparing the materials of clothing. By 5 he was playing dress up at the babysitters. He has never been attracted to or even tried to be with a woman, he’s 27 now. Even though he has full support from his family the rest of the world hasn’t always been kind so I can’t imagine someone choosing to ridiculed, picked and hated on as a lifestyle choice.
          And yes his father was in the home so it wasn’t from being surrounded by women.

          • Around the Way Girl

            ” I can’t imagine someone choosing to ridiculed, picked and hated on as a lifestyle choice.”

            Right. In some cases, disowned from loved ones and cut off financially as well. I remember reading a statistic about gay men and women being ridiculously over-represented in homeless and drug/alcohol addicted populations because of these things. Not to mention their high suicide rate. No one is just gonna volunteer to be part of such a hated, feared, and lonely group, and I would think that would be obvious to people. The whole “they chose that lifestyle” idea is really irksome to me.

  • ChrisChris

    I agree with Fivegirl. There is a theory that says most people sit between straight and gay which means most of human population is technically bi (I know most ppl think that is a dirty word) or have the ability to be with men and women. And if you think about it, it makes sense. Where is the rule that says if you are a woman you can only be into men emotionally, physically and romantically. I understand the reproduction argument but that is only s’e’x it does not take into account love and the other types of attractions people experience.

    I consider myself to be ‘bi'( I came out about 13-15) but on the kinsey scale I am more like a 5.5. Which means my predominant attraction is to women but ever so rarely I could be attracted to a man too. I think the more people let go of having to be gay or straight the better it will be. I think. But also if a person is 90% percent straight there is that 10 percent that is gay which means ‘bi’ just on an attraction level. Anyway I think it is really easy for people to pick on gay/bi people who are open with being attracted to their ‘own’ but I have heard plenty of straight people in real life and internet say they have been occasionally into the same s’e’x or have had an experience. But as long as they present a heterosexual face to the world no one cares. But if you date mostly your own people are up in arms.

    There was a study(cant find it) that stated the people that identify as queer were the minority amongst same s’e’x attracted people. But the majority were people attracted to the same s’e’x and didnt label it or people who have s’e’x with the same s’e’x. But i do believe in the sexuality spectrum. I can go on and on about this

    • Deeds

      Which means my predominant attraction is to women but ever so rarely I could be attracted to a man too.

      Just curious have you ever acted on your rare attraction to a man. If you did or if you would, would you tell a woman that you are with?

      • ChrisChris

        I identify as bi so that means the women Im with know Im attracted to men. And if she wants to know more I can tell her. But being with men on a sexual level is not fulfilling as a whole. So I usually like his company more than anything else.

  • http://twitter.com/kjnetic peter parker

    “Anyway, people of VSB, I’m curious: In regards to our sexual orientations, do you believe in the spectrum (the theory that our orientation is a combination of nature and nurture and that we all fall somewhere inbetween 100% gay and 100% straight), nature (we’re born the way we are), or nurture (a combination of experiences and conscious choices decide our sexual paths)?”

    i don’t know if homosexuality can be ‘cured’…but i personally believe that no matter what folks are into, or like…they exercise the final choice in order to indulge themselves in that interest/love/sexuality.

    • http://verysmartbrothas.com The Champ

      but i personally believe that no matter what folks are into, or like…they exercise the final choice in order to indulge themselves in that interest/love/sexuality.

      i agree. while orientation isn’t a choice, the lifestyle you decide to lead definitely is

      • http://www.wildcougarconfessions.com Wild Cougar

        +1

      • http://mrweethomas.wordpress.com Mr. Wee Thomas

        With the pursuit of sex and love being a major part of peoples lives, can you really day that lifestyle, especially in the context of this discussion, is truly one’s own decision?

      • au napptural

        personalresponsibility.com

      • http://dodreamaisha.wordpress.com dodreamaisha

        “the lifestyle you decide to lead definitely is”

        So what’s the alternative? Aren’t some decisions a bit more trying and detrimental to make? So someone makes a decision to be heterosexual, but the consequences are that they feel insecure, lonely, and fearful of ever being caught?

        Let’s say, if I had a mostly black daddy and a mostly white momma, and I “decide” to be white. Genetically speaking, if I were mixed, I could possibly be more white than black, and my choice would actually be accurate, but my features could still be more phenotypically “black.” Sure, I make a lifestyle decision to be white, but society would burden me otherwise with my choice. I would still be treated black and deal with the prejudices that follow, from having store owners follow me in stores, to being denied access to a job because I look black, to not getting a cab at night etc. So what purpose is my decision?

        Perhaps, likewise, I were homosexual and made a “lifestyle” choice to be straight. I can make that choice, but it wouldn’t change the fact that I am attracted to males, just as a mixed woman can make a choice to be white, but if she looks black it won’t change the fact that she’ll be treated as black.

        It’s kind of null to say one’s lifestyle is simply a choice without considering the consequences that come from that choice.

  • 90sgagirl

    gets popcorn for interesting convo about to start…….

    What is and what isn’t gay is a kinda double standard
    As a straight female if a guy told me back in the day he use to kiss/mess around with guys bc he was “experimenting” but now years later he is straight = Major side eye 0-) and in my Riley Freeman voice I’m sayin Ninja You (still) Gay!

    but there’s a kinda double standard bc if a girl told a guy back in the day she use to kiss/mess around with females but now years later she’s straight = most guys would see that as a plus (she a freak) and have no prob

    I have heard about this pray away the gaY movement…and to some extent I think some people have always been that way since they were little & there is no changing that…and others it’s just some random like WHEN THE Hell did so in so decide she wanted to be gay (trend?) or environment…turned out etc….or how do you drastically go from last year being straight and then the next year saying you’re gay/lesbian?

    • http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=M5FR1LGsT7E TheAnti-Cool

      I personally don’t believe in this double standard. But I’m not a dude so…

      Seriously, I don’t see the difference between a guy “experimenting” vs a girl that does the same. I don’t think one is better or worse than the other nor do I think one is cuter or hotter than the other. I’m sure I’m in the vast minority on this though.

    • http://verysmartbrothas.com The Champ

      What is and what isn’t gay is a kinda double standard
      As a straight female if a guy told me back in the day he use to kiss/mess around with guys bc he was “experimenting” but now years later he is straight = Major side eye 0-) and in my Riley Freeman voice I’m sayin Ninja You (still) Gay!

      but there’s a kinda double standard bc if a girl told a guy back in the day she use to kiss/mess around with females but now years later she’s straight = most guys would see that as a plus (she a freak) and have no prob

      i don’t agree that most guys would see it as a plus, but i don’t think it would be a deal-breaker for most, either

      • Tx10inch

        I agree.

      • Imperfect

        I agree. And for this reason, I think bisexuality is probably 75% about physical/sexual attraction, cause generally, homosexuals don’t want to get serious with bisexuals and heterosexuals don’t want to get serious with bisexuals. If a guy is excited that a girl he’s dating is into girls, it’s because he thinks he might too benefit from her sexual attraction. But for the most part, the guys I’ve come across are not excited to learn that a girl he’s really into considers herself bi

        • LSQ

          I think guys are excited about a girl who has experimented because it’s an indication of her willingness to have fun, take risks, and be a bit more interesting than 90% of the other broads out there. Risk-averseness is NOT attractive.

          • http://verysmartbrothas.com The Champ

            I think guys are excited about a girl who has experimented because it’s an indication of her willingness to have fun, take risks, and be a bit more interesting than 90% of the other broads out there. Risk-averseness is NOT attractive.

            i actually think this is an overrated assumption. yea, i think many guys get excited by the idea of two attractive women getting it on, but i dont think that many guys get excited by the idea of THEIR woman getting it on with another chick

        • Deeds

          While being a bi woman may not be exciting to a guy it’s not necessarily a deal breaker, but for a woman a bi man would be a deal breaker. I consider myself open minded and do believe in the Kinsey scale but I’m not sure how I could deal with a man that considered himself bi sexual. In my mind I know I would be wondering if he was really gay and he’s just in denial.

  • LA Red

    I think it depends on the person. My brother was gay and was brought up in a very masculine tradition. I think for some it’s nature, you can see it even when they’re young. For others it’s a choice. Tri-sexual….willing to try anything. Like Diddy.

    • tgtaggie

      @LA Red

      I think Diddy was trying to “moisturize his situation and preserve his sexy”

      • LA Red

        See…I can’t un-read that. The visual is just…..

        • tgtaggie

          pretty bad. lol. That was my reaction when he (Diddy) said that during those ProActiv commericals. lol.

    • http://verysmartbrothas.com The Champ

      “I think it depends on the person.”

      i agree (obviously)

    • Imperfect

      I have a cousin like that. Knew when we were 8 that he was gay. We’d be at family reunions and the guys would be playin football and he would say he wanted to be a cheerleader. So I agree that for some it’s nature, but for the same reason, I believe that if you “choose” to be gay, you’re not really gay

      • http://verysmartbrothas.com The Champ

        “I believe that if you “choose” to be gay, you’re not really gay”

        then what are you?

        • LMNOP

          Chosen?

        • Imperfect

          Bi. At best. Because if you can “choose” to be gay, you can “choose” to be straight. And i believe that people who “choose” their sexuality can and will flip-flop under the right circumstances.
          …and I don’t know why I put “choose” in quotes

      • http://twitter.com/#!/Mailuv7 Mailuv7

        “We’d be at family reunions and the guys would be playin football and he would say he wanted to be a cheerleader.”

        I’ve never understood the idea of boys/men thinking that the enjoyment/appreciation of ‘feminine’ things, ideas, lifestyle is gay. Maybe it’s the only acceptable way for them to understand it? There are oodles of gay athletes out there, and men who don’t ‘look’ gay but it would seem that even male children see that gayness is understood as being feminine? (Did that make sense to anyone else but me? lol)

        • au napptural

          I was just about to say that. Just b/c you aren’t all rough and tough doesn’t make you gay. I think people get pushed that way b/c of societal expectations and aren’t strong enough to fight the stigma.

        • Kema

          I thought the same thing! I sure there are male cheerleaders that get a lot of women. lol!