And no, we’re not talking about Sherman Helmsley, smokin’ that “boat”, or Dee.
We’re talking about Meek Mill and Drake’s perplexing homage to, well, the same thing they talk about on every other song they write and record – f*cking, living the good life, and being swagged out – entitled “Amen”.
But first, let me say, lord forgive them, they got them dark forces in them.
Amen.
This song perplexes me so much I’ve spent literal hours going back and forth with myself on how I should feel versus how I do feel. Let’s start with the basics, this is only an issue because the beat to this song is so insanely infectious and dope. The producer took us to church with it. On purpose. It’s like that bridge between secular and gospel rap that 100 percent of all gospel rappers have been looking for but couldn’t find. Real talk, put DMX or some other rapper conflicted about his spirituality and likes to talk about it over that beat and you might have your first respectable gospel rap song. Hell, you could even title it “Amen” and it would work perfectly.
More hell, you could have taken the ENTIRE verses spit by Meek and Drake, turned them towards a religious bent and had a significantly dope gospel rap record. I truly believe this. The vast majority of us, whether currently believers, atheists, agnostics, or what have you, began in the church and can immediately identify with that piano riff. If you’re grandmother is Baptist or Pentecostal, she likely crip-walked to it this past Sunday. Meek knew this, probably because he also is insanely familiar with it, immediately heard the beat and knew exactly where to take it…to church.
NEVERMIND THAT HE STARTED IT WITH AN IGNANT NINJA PRAYER!!
So what we get is a 4-minute long sacreligious ode to ignorance that is intentionally geared to play up to our religious histories in a way that would ensure that we’d all need to go to church on Sunday JUST to repent for dancing to it in the club the night before. The hook is a PERFECT call-and-response execution. Meek and Drake are both dope on it…if only they weren’t sending me to hell every time I listened to it. Which, obviously, is the conundrum. In many ways, I feel like they went too damn far. But I’ll admit it’s only because I’m Black and I hold church (even though I rarely, if ever, go) sacred. Which is mostly because despite my imperfect church record (no pun) over the past umpteen years, I’m still god-fearing and recognize blasphemy when I hear it. I believe in being struck by lightning, for heaven’s sake!
Which presents a whole OTHER problem. Ladies, I have issues. For some reason I’m more conflicted about this than about the rampant exploitation I hear in the record. I kind of just want them to change the title and stop saying “amen” and “church”. I know, and I’m working on this. There’s really no defense for it. Though I’ve mostly stopped listening to 90 percent of the “ignorant” stuff. My daughter has COMPLETELY trumped all of my music choices nowadays. Believe it or not (and this might sound ironic) but I pretty much only listen to pop music stations when she’s not with me and gospel when she is. Oh how the mighty have fallen.
Annnnnnyway.
Back to just wanting them to change the title and hook. Sure the beat is churchy, but I could live with that as just being creative. Besides, more rappers than you may realize have straight jacked gospel for samples. Shoot, early soul and blues owes its entire lineage to gospel. So gospel tinged secular music isn’t exactly new or troubling. This just feels different.
I hear it and I want to dance, but yelling “amen” after their lines using the terms “b*tches, kill n*ggas, etc” just seems inherently wrong. Perhaps I read too much or have mostly grown up (again, I’m apparently okay with the exploitation and misogyny present…help me) but I wonder why NOBODY thought there would be anything wrong with this record. Granted, its creative as a mug and of course entertaining. Meek does entertaining records and the boy can rap. I’m fairly certain his album would be terrible but his singles are monsters (I’m not sure I could listen to him yell at me for a whole hour…I’m grown, stop that).
Back to the lecture at hand, the record…befuddles me. I’m fairly certain that I shouldn’t like it, but deep down, I do. Because it’s a good record. I just want them to stop being so blasphemous. And I’m not even sure they are. I’m nowhere near the level of ole boy out of Philly, the pastor who found it to be outwardly just damn wrong. But in some small way, I get his point. For the first time ever, d-boys everywhere will be yelling “amen” and “church” ad nauseum and it will be for all of the wrong reasons. Which brings up something else: I know that I’ve DEFINITELY used lots of church references in my everyday speech and things I’ve written that could very well be considered sacrilege. So perhaps there’s a little bit of pot-calling-the-kettle-black here. And perhaps I should reconsider my own choices.
But perhaps, I’ll probably not do that either. And I’m making a mountain out of a molehill.
Amen.
Church?
(Couldn’t help myself.)
So good folks, what do you think about the record (video included uptop)? Is anybody else conflicted by this song? Does this record go to far in its sacrelige? Does it even go to far? Does it even matter?
Talk to me.
-VSB P aka THE ARSONIST aka MR. TAKE ‘EM TO CHURCH aka GIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIRL HE A 3
Don’t forget about the upcoming panel hosted by VSB P and Raheil T of Urban Cusp in conjunction with the Washington Post on July 26, 2012, from 6-8pm at the WaPo Building. It should be a great interactive conversation about relationships between all of us! Group participation, ninjas! See you there!
First? Church!
Perhaps this is a suitable alternative: http://youtu.be/iZKfoVa0jkg
Can I say that beat knocks? If I wasn’t trending so hard away from Abrahamic sprituality, I’d bump this like crazy.,
that joint is alright. never heard of KB, but everybody I know who’s trying to save my soul has attempted to get me into Lecrae. dude’s cool in my book.
Word. I cut for Lecrae.
This is basically every BET Awards.
Rapper: “I’d like to thank my Lord and Savior, for blessing and inspiring me”
Everyone at home: Your album was called “I f*ck h0es, but I don’t love ‘em”
So yeah, they just cut out the middle man
Except they don’t mention their Lord is Satan… And the Illuminati, or whatever.
Please sont start that silly Illuminati mess in here. Uneducated negroes talking about things that they have no idea about.
black people need to stop talking about illuminati. maybe if y’all actually picked up a book on it from real writers you’d realise that if it does exist, a bunch of rappers will not be in it.
Church!
Right. This song is just more blatant than what we are all used to.
This song is symbolic of the Black Man’s Burden: The unholy intertwining of the spiritual and the carnal. May the producers burn in hell for making me groove to such ignorance, as the production is on point.
*presses play one mo ‘gin*
I get your point, but within Black popular music, for lack of a better term, there’s always been a thin line between the church and the secular, and both forms have borrowed freely from each other. I don’t know how you police that line, or if policing that line would actually be a good thing.
Ya, this is going to be on my “hype man” playlist. Can’t deny the beat.
This attack makes the church look insecure. Christians drive to church playing all kinds of gospel, and leave playing rick ross or whoever. So lets not make this song about sacrilige, but about finding a better way to relay the gospel to the masses.
If they would have used islamic sayings they would be dead or hunted. I would slap the shot out of them if I heard this and they were standing there.
its the musical double consciousness of the negro, eh? lol
That’s real talk!
EXACTLY. This song is just the musical version of a rapper’s awards speech.
i like speeches.
Good. I’m planning to have an epic one.
Sold out seats to hear Cheekie Smalls speak…
\(^_^)/
As much as I like to make Aubrey jokes, I’d have to become a fan if he consistently made tracks like this. (Even though I like Meek better and this feels like his song). I agree though, the beat alone makes this one of my favorite songs out right now and maybe my favorite Drake song period. As far as the church aspect. Even though I’m agnostic I did recognize that this record was pretty disrespectful…so I won’t sing it in front of my mama…(shrugs) I don’t know why you ninjas r surprised, it’s just the Illuminati gettin more bold and sh*t lol
I don’t know why you ninjas r surprised, it’s just the Illuminati gettin more bold and sh*t lol
It would be better if it was this rather than what it REALLY is. It’s just more of the same hypocrisy that Christian entertainers and athletes always display. Thanking God for careers that are built on expressing lifestyles that are BLATANTLY diametrically opposed to what that same God is supposedly about. And athletes thanking God for allowing them to win a f*cking child’s game… A GAME that they’re paid millions to play, while there are millions of ACTUAL CHILDREN starving all around the world. Disgusting…faux Christians I mean, not the song. The song is dope. Even the Bible says that its better to be “cold” than “lukewarm”. If they actually WERE devil worshipping Illuminati then at least they would be AUTHENTIC.
* Throws some $1s in your collection plate *
Yasssss to alladis!
Meh… Don’t know if I agree on the whole faux Christian thing in regards to athletes. Unless those two points were disconnected.
My point is that unless you are REALLY living what you claim to believe than you’re a hypocrite and I laugh at these guys with their itty bitty homages to their Gods when their ACTUAL LIVES are lived in DIRECT opposition to what their God stands for… and it’s always been that way. Kanye with Jesus Walks is just as bad as this if not worse. At least this is tongue in cheek. That n*gga was dead a$$ serious. Same with athletes. How do you not snicker when you’re thanking your Lord and Savior Jesus Christ for helping you win a game when really all you’re thinking about is what strip joint you and the squad are getting ready to hit… that is, unless we’re talking Tebow. I’m not a fan of his but at least when he thanks God, you know he’s authentic. And I’m an atheist. Its just the hypocrisy that kills me.
“Its just the hypocrisy that kills me.”
CHURCH!!! LOL… nah, I hear you. I almost got into a fight with a best friend of mine since 4th grade because of her hypocrisy blatantly posted on FB. It took all the restraint I could muster not to put her arse on blast.
“My point is that unless you are REALLY living what you claim to believe than you’re a hypocrite and I laugh at these guys with their itty bitty homages to their Gods when their ACTUAL LIVES are lived in DIRECT opposition to what their God stands for… and it’s always been that way.”
how much, of their life, do YOU know?
i didn’t know you had conviently snatched the Book of Life on torrents from God, and can check how everyone is living their lives, and what they’re thinking.
but as you said, you’re atheist, and i’m not, so you have the ability to judge, while i can’t. Preeeeach.
AMEN!
*head nod and a Hallelujah*
As a Christian and not an athiest. I get what Jay is saying. A tree is known by the fruit it bears so it is not judging if you watch and discern the things that people DO and say. So we don’t have to know the ins and outs of folks lives to see what they are putting out is not of God.
Hypocrisy/double speak… is what makes some people turn from Christianity. So it’s important to look at what people put out there because sometimes that’s all we have.
Hypocrisy/double speak is a human characteristic; regardless of what your belief system is.
But no religion-based institute is built on the premise of hypocrisy quite like Christianity. At least Islamm & Judiasim don’t have a grand leader that lives a palace lined with gold while telling people around the world that they should do better to be one with God while his underlings play backdoor games with children. I’m just saying. The world is full of it.
Oh you could make several disparaging characterizations about Islam and Judaism, or any belief system (if you were inclined to). But it would probably say more about you, than those actual belief systems (just like your blanket assertion about Christianity says something about you, not the least of which is your understanding of The Protestant Church versus The Catholic Church).
Tell em again DQ
Then what does my assumption asy about me other than the fact that I don’t agree with something?
It tells me that you aren’t aware that (literally) over a billion Christians have NOTHING to do with, and are not spiritually (or otherwise) guided by the Papacy. And that tells me that you are comfortable criticizing something that you don’t appear to know much about.
This is indeed true
Thank you Amber. Didn’t know that I had to consult Elon Musk, catch a rocket to heaven, and plan an Ocean’s 11 type caper to rob the Almighty of the Book of Life in order to know what athletes were doing. Or download it from torrents, which would admittedly, be the more rational course of action. I’m pretty sure that we’re living in the information age and all I have to do is open a new tab and type in my Twitter password, or turn on my television, or turn on the radio, or log in to VSB where WE ALL talk about the ratchetness that some athletes regularly engage in. Really!? Let’s not act all brand new. The athletes let you know CONSTANTLY what they’re doing THEMSELVES. FOHWTBS
@ Jay- What you’re not taking into account is that with regards to Christianity (according to my understanding at least) you can do and speak of all the things they talk about and sin as much as your heart desires as long as you ask for forgiveness and show regret about it before you die. I’m not gonna lie, that was my favorite part of being Christian. The fact that it was all good as long as I asked for forgiveness…
The Last Poets said it best “Die Ninja Die, So real Black People can live”.
I didnt realize how much music effected kids until i started coaching a lil league team. It’s cool when i listen to ignorant music cause i know it’s not life and i still have to work for a living, but so many kids dont understand that. I also think they made the song and titled it Amen just to get a reaction from people.
“I also think they made the song and titled it Amen just to get a reaction from people.”
Exactly! What I’m tellin the religious people that are gettin worked up about this is the same thing I tell the overzealous conspiracy theory extremists about all the supposed Illuminati symbolism in videos and songs by Kanye, Jay-z, Drake etc; They only do it because yall react so strongly and get the internet abuzz with them being the topic of conversation. A lot of ppl need to take a lesson from the Perverted Alchemist and stop takin the d@mn bait all the time lol
Its obvious that someone of the Christian faith has hurt or betrayed you,or you think believing in something you cant see is ignorance, well that’s too bad. When applied Christianity is a great source of strength. Mlk Frederick D. B. Obama Marcus Harvey Bob Market Colin Powell Mm Bethune. Most all who have made your life better believers. You would make a good Christian cuz you dislike hypocrisy as does Jesus.
But that really isn’t Christianity if someone is living like that. That’s a huge misunderstanding/misinterpretation; completely not biblical. You cannot repeatedly do something reprehensible and continually ask forgiveness for it. You can’t sin as a lifestyle. If someone is doing that and then calls themselves a Christian, they are Christian by label only. When you have a moment, check out 1 John 3:7-9; and try reading it in the New Living Translation or the Message Version – those translations are a little more understandable than the King James version.
Now, don’t sleep because yes, there are scriptures that assure us that we are forgiven of our sins; but we have to examine ourselves (Old school: “check yourself before you wreck yourself”) to make sure that who and what we claim to be are in alignment with what our actions display. It is the attitude that we have when we come to God or others asking for forgiveness that matters. We can’t expect forgiveness from someone with one hand while slapping them with the other hand. Unfortunately, there are people who subscribe to the fact that, yes, they can expect it. Again, that’s not biblical.
None of us – Christian or otherwise – will live perfect sin-free lives. Anyone who claims that they do not sin – and that definitely includes Christians – is a lying. What we can do is learn to become stronger (for lack of a better word at the moment) than the sin. We have to exercise a WILFULL mind change that will be demonstrated by our actions. Our behavior and actions will show whether we are truly turning away from whatever it is that is considered sin.
The grace we have from God is not permission to sin. It is a freedom to choose/behave differently. One of my favorite songs is by Brian Courtney Wilson and is called Simply Redeemed. It explains his viewpoint on what it means to be a Christian. I one hundred percent concur with his lyrical assertion.
So in other words. I can claim to be a basketball player all I want. I can even hang out on the court and dribble a little, but when I try to play and you see that I actually suck at basketball, you should be able to tell that I was lying. I’m not basketball player, I just want to believe that I am.
“So in other words. I can claim to be a basketball player all I want. I can even hang out on the court and dribble a little, but when I try to play and you see that I actually suck at basketball, you should be able to tell that I was lying. I’m not basketball player, I just want to believe that I am.”
are you practicing every day to get better?
are you training yourself everyday so that your endurance is better than the day before?
are you excercising yourself every day so that you can get stronger to get in the paint?
are you taking 200-2000 jump shots a day, so that your jumper is straight cash, homey?
are you going to gym/basketball leagues to face off against competition to see how you match up, and what you need to work on?
then yeah, you are on the path to be a basketball player.
i know i’ve said this before, but Christianity, matter of fact, declaring yourself of any religion, isn’t the END, it’s merely the beginning of the path.
but…whatever, like i know anything, lol.
Amen
Co-sign
I’m sorry, but I have to do an organ vamp to this. Praise break anyone?
very fair points there bredren.
I actually like this song a lot. I don’t even listen to new hip hop, but this girl on my staff was playing it a while back and it was the only new track I wanted to know the name of.
I don’t get people taking issue with the word church or amen or even the religious references for this song. Most of hip hop is blasphemous whether or not they’re using religious inferences or not, so why start hating on this specific song? If you’re gonna get your holy rolling panties in a bunch, then have issue with all of it…or sit down because you’re just as silly as the people you claim to have issues with. This picking and choosing of when to catch the holy ghost is suspect.
Also, a lot of the references to religion in the song are more related to man made religious and cultural practices…specifically black american Christianity …and my Creator and Jesus are about way more than what us Black people have come to know as religion in America. *yeezy shrug*
Preach…
“amen” is an affirmation of your acceptance of God’s word. So when someone basically says thanks for these bees and ayches followed by “amen”, folks are gonna get riled up.
Selah
Yup
I understood “amen” to be translated as “let it be so”, regardless of what the topic of convo is.
i pretty much feel the same way…cats have always said “Preeach” especially when someone starts ranting…and “Amen” i’ve always taken to mean “true, true”…
beats good, lyrics ig’nant…bump it in the club
“I’m the type to say a prayer and then go get what I just prayed for”
Yay-Men.
” Also, a lot of the references to religion in the song are more related to man made religious and cultural practices”
Excellent point. That’s why I didn’t think it was really that blasphemous. It’s just playin on black American tradition. It wasn’t necessarily mocking it.
I agree wit King Jordan. That line by Drake “I’m the type to say a prayer and go get what I just prayed for” was Drake’s best line on the song. I dug that one.
And P.J. said Meek’s prayer was so ignant, but at least he kept it real. If that’s what he’s most thankful for, why not thank God for it? #shruglife
@Liz I totally agree.
Long time… Serious question though. What are the mechanics behind getting ones panties in a bunch and under what circumstances does it occur? It might just be an expression, but I’ve always wondered if women could get that was a real thing/issue for women.
ALLEGEDLY, I heard that the closest thing to this (as a literal aspect) is when you have a big booty and your pannies sort of um get lost and um…
ALLEGEDLY.
And allegedly, this is particularly uncomfortable and subsequently, aggravating, when one is not in a position to resolve said bunching situation…
This is allegedly a GREAT addition to my alleged point. So allegedly true.
I can tell that both of you struggle with big cheek related problems from your Avatars.
Yes. And WIP’s avi is the bomb. It never fails to entertain me.
I agree.
Thank you! It bothers me when certain church groups pick and choose songs to get their marching shoes out.
everybody does that though. everybody’s a little bit racist, cynical, hypocritical.
we’ve seen mofos on this here blog get upset one minute about some sh*t that they praise the next. lol. its the nature of the beast.
*everybody does that though*
And I am literally amazed at how often people fail to see this.
Right, but if everybody does it, and almost everybody gets irritated and calls others out for doing it, then what? I mean, does that make it acceptable? Does that mean we should all just shut up complainin and let people contradict themselves or be hypocrites? No shade btw, I’m seriously asking. Cause most of these convos end up just goin in circles or sounding ridiculous because of that very phenomenon of which u speak…
doenst make it acceptable but does create the perspective that very few people are interested in change that doesnt exactly benefit them. folks just want to live and not be judged while judging others.
basically, we’re all republicans.
“basically, we’re all republicans.”
da hail you say.
*Does that mean we should all just shut up complainin and let people contradict themselves or be hypocrites?*
If we are hypocritical and contradictory at the same time – yes. You can’t criticize me about drug use while shooting up LOL. But even in a bigger picture what we always need to be aware of (especially when we’re about to level a blanket criticism towards any one group) is that there is no better brand of human being anywhere; we are what we are.
I’ll say that agian, there is no better brand of human being anywhere; we are what we are. Whatever flaw you can find in any one group, you can find in EVERY other group, and probably within yourself. Humanity is a community of glass houses. So any criticism we feel compelled to articulate, should be tempered by that knowledge.
“So any criticism we feel compelled to articulate, should be tempered by that knowledge.”
I agree completely. Seeing this over and over in others made me become way more aware of this in myself. I’m so hyper-aware of not sounding being a hypocrite (or contradicting myself in general) that I rarely know when it’s ok to criticize anymore lol. Seriously though, when I realized this it made me constantly aware of being a hypocrite….as a result I talk less now….and I tell people I understand where they’re coming from a lot more…if the whole world did this we’d all be focusing on what we have in common rather than looking for ways that we’re different. That’s gotta be the first step to (relative) world peace and sh*t
I try not to sound like a hypocrite too, but I think I concluded long ago it is a pointless battle. We are human beings, we are prone to saying one thing and doing another (despite our best intentions). I do tend to criticize less harshly (than I would in the past) because of this, but that’s me. The whole world will likely always focus on how we’re different, because it’s composed of people with different values, different beliefs, different views on what is acceptable and unacceptable.
“I rarely know when it’s ok to criticize anymore ”
If it’s done in love and humility it usually goes over better.
“Cause most of these convos end up just goin in circles or sounding ridiculous because of that very phenomenon of which u speak…”
-I think this was his point…
yeah. you could very well be right about that. this just feels different. maybe its b/c the beat is so churchy. just dope churchy.
Yeah but at the end of the day black american churchyness (whatever uw anna call it, call and response, gospel, etc) comes from slavery days and that evolved from africa and blah blah blah. Basically, God and Jesus really have nothing to do with this song lol.
^Yes to basically all of this. I’m an atheist, but yes to everything else. lol.
As the saying goes”if you dont stand for something you’ll fall for anything”. A line has to he drawn somewhere. Where do you draw the line?
Church might be the only Black & intact institution left…
We must destroy it!
Already done!
Thanks to preachers like Creflo Dollar (really?)… Smh. Eddie Long Dong Pedo-man? Yeah, it’s a wrap on God’s House.
Oh yeah forgot Creflo Dollar gave his daughter a Stone Cold stunner
When Creflo Dollar can say with a straight face that he isn’t that bad because he isn’t molesting kids, we have a MAJOR issue. LOL
From what i know of it, I honestly think Creflo mighta caught a bad rap on that one. If my daughter was headed out the house to a party where i KNOW its gon be 30 ninjas trying to gang rape her, a Stone Cold Stunner might be the lesser of two evils. Better a sore neck from an @$$ whooping now, than a sore neck from topping off the patrons at the strip where she’d work in 5 years.
Maybe her pole name woulda been Sister Mary Francis Dollar.
I thought Creflo put her in the figure four while Taffy pulled his arms for leverage a la Arn Anderson.
I agree. The Black church has failed on the three major issues affecting many Black communities today; violence, education and HIV/ AIDS.
You know, churches really can help in educating the masses. A lot of the Latin-American churches teach their congregations about immgration issues. My church growing up has something like this and always focused on bettering the community. Last year I worked with churches that would put on health drives and what not. But when it comes to violence, ya got me.
Do churches not do these things anymore?
Most Black churches are busy building the pastor a new residence (and saving up to buy him a Bentley) and pointing fingers at gay people, so they don’t have time to educate the flock.
The church is not homophobic! *salute to the musician and the choir director*
LOVE how this INSTANTLY got turned into an indictment of Christianity in general, and Black Christians in particular. Any excuse….
I gotta agree with Dubs Cee here, because no other belief system (buddhists, muslims, jews, atheists) has hypocrites or believers of that religion who tend to show that, in fact, they are human, right? Let’s have a constructive conversation about this stuff instead of bashing.
I realize you probably weren’t talking to me (because I never bashed any religion, not today at least) but I’ll say that when I do bash religions I don’t discriminate. They all catch it. Hell even atheists catch it from me. You really think your puny human brain can explain the existence of a universe this vast and complex? C’mon son lol, why is everybody so afraid of not knowing? (For a lot of people it’s because of the belief of heaven and hell. Fear is a muthaf*cka)
Pretty much.
It’s comments like this are why I’m Deist and NOT atheist.
Look, there are plenty of knuckleheaded churches like that. However, there are churches that step up and try to help the community with stopping the violence, education, and what not. Oddly enough, this can often be the same church. And there are some churches, though hardly not enough, that are trying to speak out on AIDS/HIV and gay issues in general.
Simply put, the church is a human institution, with all the attendant strengths and weaknesses thereof. While I don’t blindly love them, I don’t blindly hate them either.
Well, looks like I should have read further down.
Actually most black churches are not hyper-visible; they tend to be smaller institutions that are looking out for their communities, helping members with bills if necessary, and trying to make their small portion of the world a better place instead of trying to get Pastor SuchandSuch the CL Coupe. Most black churches are not doing what those megachurches do, and I know this from direct experience with many black churches.
Most black churches decry violence and tend to push children to get an education:
Deaconess Debbie: “I’m making the announcements, but today I just want to recognize the chillrun who have graduated recently. Please stand up. Yall give them a hand! *crowd enthusiastically claps* Dem babies are so precious and they doing so well; we know that they will continue on to bigger and better!”
^ I’m sure most of us who have been to church have seen some iteration of the even described above this. Black churches don’t have a good record with stopping HIV/AIDS because they only preach abstinence. While that’s another issue that I won’t delve into today, I say all of this to demonstrate that black churches are trying to get the masses educated and stop senseless violence.
Nicely stated.
+1 This is how my church does things. It’s a small church but they even try to hook you up with a small scholarship about $500-$1000 when the kids get accepted into college. They believe in empowering the community not shaming it. I will also say that one year the pastor got a new Escalade. Guess what, the church didn’t buy it he did. He worked for a good company for years and saved some money. Not every church is about pandering to the preacher and buying them shiny things. That’s one piece of ignorance that always bothered me.
Jess,
I feel you on the small church thing but the members also need to believe in the vision; especially if the vision is not church as usual. I know several churches that want to have scholarship funds but the members don’t want support the activities (time and funds) to seed the projects. If you announce in church that the pancake breakfast on Saturday funds are going to the scholarship fund and two people show up, what type on check do you think Timmy is going to get from the scholarship committee???
I’ve provided the teens in my church a laundry list of scholarships that were out there and offered to assist if they had questions. Takers = 0.
i aint the most ardent churcgoing Christian, but this is a bit strong, no? i think the ones that do the most “wrong” just get hte most press. i’d wager that the vast majority of congregations and churches are just regular Black folks trying to find a little peace of heave and salvation while they make it through the week.
Thank you.
Child please. Sounds like you got that info heresay. Im not saying some congregations funds and tithes aren’t being misused, but dont use such a big brush. You can easily go to the local church and spearhead some community related programs or keep sitting back talking and typing about what the church not doing
I don’t think religion or Christianity in and of themselves are inherently bad, but they are institutions that 1) hold significant influence, status, and money 2) Consist entirely of human beings with inherent flaws that are realized to their fullest potential when influence, status or money are involved. Religion is a powerful tool that can be used for good or bad, and people have used it for both.
+1, I learned long ago this is the difference between a successful church and one that fails to thrive: either the church is run realistacally as a business and parables are examples or you have people literally worshipping the pastor and waiting on God to help you while you sit around doing whatever, hoping for a miracle on your phone bill. I have often wondered how slaves prayed to a God that enabled the master to justify slavery…religion is a sticky wicket.
*realistically*
My church would have free GRE classes and cancel service every now and then to have clothing give a ways on the lawn. Even had a counselor deliver “the word” a time or two to speak on emotional issues. I realize most churches are not like this tho…and that’s a shame.
You got only one out of three. Yes, the Black Churches record with HIV/AIDS is reprehensible. But I do see a lot of churches out there trying to stop violence and education. I’m not religious like that, but let’s give people credit where it’s due.
i’m with you.
The problem post civil rights is that pastors removed themselves from socio-political issues. What I’m seeing now is a gradual shift back to pastors that include socio-political issues into the fabric of their churches.
How are they trying to stop violence? By marching? That has no effect. And what has the Black church done to stop the avalanche of Black drop-outs?
With all of the money that Black churches collectively generate why haven’t they started their own charter schools en mass? And why haven’t they started businesses en mass to give kids a job alternative to hustling on the corner?
The modern day Black church is all about vanity. Pretty churches, fancy ministers in fancy clothes and not much more.
@ Val
Progression is a function of the vision of the pastor, the willingness of the members to follow, AND the identification / procurement of resources. I’ve been members of churches that had a trade componet to help drop outs. When they built an addition, it was a requirement to hire the newly minted trade folk. I’ve seen churches build day care centers and create jobs within the membership and provide a safe enviornment for their members children.
The challenge is knowing what you don’t know and paying for what you don’t know. When my old church in NY paid a director to manage the senior apartments it built, folks got tight about the salary but found she was worth her weight in gold when audit time came around and the home had no deficiencies.
@Sigma
Okay got it. Although I don’t think that anecdotal evidence is the best, I definitely appreciate hearing that there are a few Black churches being proactive.
If you want to be mad at the church, that’s fine. If you want to say yes, they are pursuing efforts in certain fields, but it’s insufficient or misguided because of XYZ, I’d be with you. However, it seems that you have a bias against the Black church. Where I live, I can’t swing a dead cat without running into some sort of church run private school, and every weekend, there’s some sort of Stop The Violence event.
It seems like you’ve let your (justifiable) anger about the church and its treatment of LGBT issues in general and have it blind you to anything they do. Would it be worth it to you if a Black church cared about LGBT folk but didn’t give a F about violence or education? Your statements make me wonder if you’d be OK with that.
“Would it be worth it to you if a Black church cared about LGBT folk but didn’t give a F about violence or education? Your statements make me wonder if you’d be OK with that.”
I was a little moved by your argument until you added the statement above, Todd.
Creflo Dollar and Eddie Long.
Aha, we had the same thought at once!
THROOOOOOWBAAACK!!
http://youtu.be/y46B1u9F5xs
That video was a response to Willow Smith’s “I whip my hair” for some reson this makes me giggle even more.
lolwut!?
I disagree with church being that strong bastion of togetherness that got us through slavery and Jim Crow. Read your history. Christianity was FORCED upon us. Later they ALLOWED us to have church. We were 100% at the mercy of those in power in America. We only had what they allowed us to have. If Church didn’t prove useful to them then they would have taken that away too.
Preach.
Just about every religion has subjugated someone to spread its Gospel. Hence, I’m a heathen agnostic.
So am I, but “agnostic” sounds like a euphemism to me so I just say atheist.
I am agnostic because I can’t prove God doesn’t exist except rhetorically, ie.
If God is omnipotent and all powerful can God create a rock so big God can’t lift it up.
Think about that for a minute or until your head starts to hurt.
But can you prove that Beowulf doesn’t/didn’t exist?? Can you prove that The Flying Spagetti Monster doesn’t exist?? I’m pretty sure that you have no doubt in their non-existence. Food for thought.
Grendel is the Loch Ness monster.
The truth is out there…
*whistles Xfiles theme*
You recruiting members? Sounds like it.
Wow, can’t believe I’m in complete agreement with Sweet Sass for once. Feels weird, but good at the same d*mn time
As far as what you’re sayin Jay, you know man I used to think “agnostic” people were suckers. I was like “don’t be on the fence like an indecisive kid” but then I realized that it doesn’t really mean that (not to me at least). The thing about agnostic people is that they’re not rushing to a decision (I can’t blame them because theirs soooooo much relevant information to take in on this subject and it’s such an important one). I’m actually not an agnostic in the traditional sense (I just like the convenience of a label) because I still believe in God, I just don’t believe in the same God most religious folk talk about. If that’s the only definition of God out there, then I’m an atheist. Not the case though. I tend to lean more towards Eastern religions and their spiritual understanding. I won’t go on a rant about what I don’t like/agree with about Western religions though. Don’t have the time and it would be pointless anyway. Everybody’s gonna believe what they want, and I wish them the best of luck with that
many paths to the same place.
spokes on a wheel meet in the center.
something like this in the tao
which is my everything
and my nothing.
(smile)
Absence of evidence isn’t evidence of absence!
sweets said: “I am agnostic because I can’t prove God doesn’t exist except rhetorically.”
the burden of proof doesn’t fall on the skeptic…..
http://topdocumentaryfilms.com/why-i-am-no-longer-a-christian/
http://topdocumentaryfilms.com/atheism-critical-thinking/
Took the words right out of my mouth.
Yes knowing our history is important. Especially past American history because the history of the church goes back thousands of years. It’s not all about repression and a physical structure.
No no my brotha read the bible And dig a little deeper. The first convert to Christianity was an Ethiopian on the road to damascus NT. Theories say the Ark is in Ethiopia. The first christian nation is Ethiopia away before Europeans got christianity. A nubian named Amenotep was the first ruler to declare that there is only one God. Its a lot more info about Christianity in Africa before the slave trade. Keep researching (blocking) bro its out there.
Intact institution??? Really?
Hmmm, what do I expect from two grown men who throw bottles in the club? Do I expect healthy relationships with religion, women, or masculinity? Not quite.
As with the grand tradition of hip hop music, I expect equals parts chauvinism, misogynism, and debauchery, all of which are readily apparent with this latest Young Money offering.
Does Meek Mill owe more respect, or reverence, to the God of our ancestors? Maybe, but it is because Mill decided to record his sacrilege that we see an issue? Black people have a complicated relationship with religion; on one hand, we respect and honor God, but on the other, possibly even larger hand, we wonder how a God that claims to love us would begin our American history with slavery, and then usher in a new era of discrimination and degradation after the formal end of chattel slavery.
Anyway, I don’t club or listen to the radio, nor do I listen to Drake, Meek Mill, or Li’l Wayne, so I won’t be unconsciously bopping my head to “Amen” anytime soon. They’ll both to work our their own salvation with fear and trembling like the rest of us. I’ll let God do his perfect work, and leave the judging for those dressed in all black like the omen.
“we wonder how a God that claims to love us would begin our American history with slavery, and then usher in a new era of discrimination and degradation after the formal end of chattel slavery.”
It’s written in the old testaments why this happened to us. It’s the curses for his people breaking the covenant. Read Leviticus & Deuteronomy. It’s all in there!!!
I think we have all been misled though. If you read the bible there are so many parallels between the history of AAs and the Hebrews in the bible and how God punished them that it seems like prophesy. From being in captivity in a foreign land to womens hair styles. I think our ancestors actually related to the Hebrews. I have a theory that we may be tfrom the Hebrews. Its just so many parallels.
I guess I’ll be the resident hip hop purist and say I hate the song. Not because of the mixing of religious imagery and lexicon and street rap, that really is nothing new, Tupac did that ALL the time (Hail Mary anyone?). And rap infuses more than just Christianity, Islam gets infused all the time.
Probably what makes Tupc more easy to digest is that he is aware of his conflict and speaks to it (then we don’t feel so bad, because we’re not the only ones.) But this track? I hate it because it feels like a “gimmick” track, and that gimmick isn’t even all that creative (to me).
Can I room with you? I have my first’s, last’s AND security deposit right here!
This is why I can’t listen tp 99.99% of what comes out nowadays. It’s honestly mostly garbage. True test of a GOOD hip hop track is when you can listen to it 20 years later and it still sounds amazing and the lyrics are still relevant. Now, I know we aren’t 20 years from this cut or most of what’s out now, but you can tell a future 20 year hot track from pure crap right now. This here ish is the equivalent of a Weinerschntzel chili burger. Just nasty crap that you feel like vomiting up every bite you take, partly cause you know it tastes, horrible, partly cause you know you bout to have a heart attack right then and there.
Jesus Walks is a hot track 20 years from now.
The People (Common) is a hot track 20 years from now.
This ish will be forgotten like the B-side of a Coolio cd.
My litmus test for hip hop genius? Ras Kas ” The Nature of the Threat”. If you can put put something as genius, or even close, I call bs.
* this of course minus his homphobic ranting in the song. I can be a hasbian Bi woman who loves thia song, and you got ninjas talk bout they won’t consider buyon a Frank Ocean album cause he might be speakin to a dude. Phuckin mind boggling!
I’m tired and typing on a samsing prevail. So please forgive the major typos towards the end.
Hay, let’s make a drinking game outta tryna figure out which ACTUAL words I meant! One shot for each incorrect guess, two if you’re right!
B-Side of a Coolio CD? I salute you. That’s unintentionally intentionally funny. I think that’s the first time I’ve ever seen that and I am dying laughing. And I agree, this is a throw away song; it’s a musical fortune cookie. You take it’s cause it came free with the stuff you actually wanted, it provides a moment of entertainment, then it goes in the trash.
Yeah, I like the Coolio reference as well.
I didn’t know he had enough material to make it to a B-side. lol
I flipped my CD over…nothing.
And that, my friend, is the unintentionally funny part. I loved everything about the post though… EVERYTHING.
I see your Rass Kass and raise you De La Soul – Stakes Is High.
I’m so with you on this. I can’t really even get into this song because it’s so redundant. This ain’t nothing but a redone Wayne beat (see Let the Beat Build, sounds like they took the melody from that and changed it to piano chords for Amen… actually here you go https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nvhOVkH-2z4) I could be reaching but no lie the second I heard this I thought of this song IMMEDIATELY!
Hip hop used to be more original. I don’t know. I can appreciate a new spin on stuff every once in a while but now it’s like the new spins on older tracks is the norm… no thank you.
There is good hip hop still being made commercialy, it isn’t all garbage. I know it’s still in vogue to clown Drake for being soft, but he has more than a handful of tracks with solid production and rhyme skills that don’t make you shake your head and say, “who in the f#ck signed this dude”?
I loved Saigon’s last CD, but it didn’t do much numbers wise. I think it’s anyone’s guess if Detox or Jay Elec’s album will ever come out
And there’s also underground artists that would blow people’s doors off if they got any major rotation (Elzhi comes to mind, Big KRIT, I mean folks are out there). Truthfully there are a number of Battle Rap Circuit Champions that would eat most rappers lunches lyrically (Math, Iron, Thesaurus, etc.) though it’s questionable if they’d be a commerical success.
I guess what I’m saying is that I don’t necessarily feel that the best hip hop is behind us, I just feel there are more clones and throw away artists making one-trick-pony music than ever before. It’s like anything else out there, when it first starts, only the purists are really into it. When people see it can make money, EVERYONE gets into it… including people who aren’t that good at it.
Agreed. And you know what? The universe (God’s creatio
) has a great way of restoring itself. I mean who is to say that what’s happening now in coming won’t begin to fade and Hip hop will return to a sound similar that in which it began… much like all things (fashion, life… Michael Vick’s career).
*sidenote* when I saw that Jay Electronica comment I literally busted out laughing… and Dre? Bwahahahahahaha yeah right.
i’m glad you brought up Tupac. Tupac could make songs like this that would be easy to digest b/c the title would find a way to replay. the religion in the song was authentic or at least a focal point. this joint to me was akin to just yelling out words that have nothing to do with anything but sound dope to say them. like there’s no religious conflict for meek mill. the ninja heard the beat and said, “thats church…amen” and rolled with it.
Yeah the way I envisioned it, the producer audtioned a beat for him, Meek was like, “that sounds like a church organ”, and the producer was like, “yeah”, and Meek was like, “yeah, let me make that theme of this song”.
And here we are.
The song is arrrite…… and i’m not religious at all….. but it did make me wince a little bit for precisely the reason’s Panama suggested; my religious past and ish.
However Drake wrapped up his verse with a home-run when he said:
“I’m the type to say a prayer and then go get what i just prayed for”
Certified dope, compadre’s
Right. Hardest Drake verse in a good minute.
Definitely…then when his album drops he’ll go back to singing bout that heaux that curved him
Drake LPs < ft. Drake
+1
“I’m the type to say a prayer and then go get what i just prayed forâ€
I liked this line as well.
yeah, Drizzy did his thing.
btw, am i the only one who was confused for a minute by the ninja Driicky Graham and thought taht was another Drake name, only to find out that’s a different person??
wait, you have no idea who Driicky Graham is? never mind.
At times I find religion to be sacrileges, so………
Religion is the the practice of worshipping that which you hold sacred. In most cases that’s ones interpretation of God, but technically, Meek is praising what he worships using praise and worship words.
Music, like many other realms of artistic expression, has blurred these lines many times. Madonna’s ‘Like a prayer’ anyone?
Yeah, she was talking about fellating a Madame Tussauds waxy Black Jesus who comes (cums?) to life in time for a gospel choir to chime in.
good observation ~*~
i remember when Andres Serrano’s “Piss Christ” (a photograph by a black artist) crashed the National Endowment for the Arts. between him, Robert Mapplethrope, and Karen Finley (and good old Jesse Helms), government funding for the arts forever died in this country. now we got corporations funding the arts, running the script, and as George Orwell said, “All Art is Propaganda.”
why did i just hear the opening bars to “Off the Books” when I wrote that .. “youuuu betta watch yoself”
First, shouts to the Beatnuts reference. I love that group to the death. Two, Jesse Helms defunding government sponsored art was the case of a stopped clock being right twice a day. I don’t want government putting out propaganda in my name. If you can’t get a check for it, don’t go running to Uncle Sam.
i’m not arguing for or against government funding. i am only in awe of Serrano taking down the system with a photograph of a tiny little Jesus floating in his own urine.
i saw the photograph in person years ago, after having seen it in so many magazines. i thought the concept was banal, if not trite, until i saw the photograph in person. it was powerful. spiritual. and it was deeply ambiguous in its message. i wasn’t even open to God at this point in my life but still i could feel something incredible coming through this work.
and me, really, i love when art can make us question our assumptions around religion and politics in one fell swoop, like Ali in the ring standing over Liston talking about WHAT!
*Two, Jesse Helms defunding government sponsored art was the case of a stopped clock being right twice a day.*
Begrudgingly I agree. I mean you really NEVER want to find yourself agreeing with anything Jesse Helms thought, and honestly I think art is important to a society (I wouldn’t call it propaganda perse, but if it is actually art, then it is meant to convey some message) but the government doesn’t really have a charter or obligation to fund it. I hope it was all worth it to Andres. He said his piece “Piss Christ” was about the misuse of religion. I wonder if he’s subsequently thought about the misuse of art?
Or it could be me. I honestly tried and could not divine any meaningful statement from the piece. Even when I tried to divorce myself from any emotional investment by asking, “would I be similarly skeptical of the value or the message of the art if it was say a Fecal Buddha or a Sewage Ahura Mazda” and the answer is yes.
I’m not saying art can’t be offensive, but I am saying it can’t be offensive for the sake of being offensive, and then claiming some lofty purpose/message that bears no connection to your actual piece after the fact.
i completely agree with your thoughts about Serrano and i was quite loathing of Finley until i saw both their works in person. art, as we understand it through the age of reproduction (props to Walter Benjamin) loses the soul of the original and picks up new meaning by virtue of recontextualization. which, in and of itself, is not a good or bad thing. only when it is connected to political/religious/social agendas, then the propaganda machine is at work in service of a different agenda.
but to stand before the art as an original, to be with it in the flesh, for me that’s where Truth occurs.
ps: Helms. my nemesis. i kinda miss the old cat. that’s back in the days when the Senate started culture wars, and i found that to be my kinda FUN (i see you, Patti Astor).
I can dig that. For me, truth occurs, when truth is revealed (through the art). Sometimes it’s through parody, sometimes through exaggeration, and sometimes through a lie (ironically enough). But when I stumble across some truth, I know it, because I immediately begin to change the way I once thought.
I had no such moment with this piece. That’s not the sine qua non of metrics by the way; just because I don’t have a “moment”, doesnt mean a piece isn’t communicating something to someone. But I suspect (and again, I acknowledge this may be my bias) that I experienced the piece exactly as he intended, as a provocation designed to garner attention, then retroactively attributed with a “message” whose connection with the piece seems dubious even when explained.
i am with you. i’ve worked artists to articulate their message and put it out in the world. and that can be a loaded proposition because the communication of intent via words transforms experience. now we must decide if we will contend with their intention, or discard in favor of our own decision. if a message rings hollow to the ear, to me that red flags the message but not the artwork itself.
i am of the mind that the meaning belongs to the viewer. the artist cannot own meaning. meaning is the space that exists between viewer and work. great art works because it speaks for itself ~*~
I agree in principle. It takes away something from any piece of art when it has to be explained. However Serrano felt compelled to offer an explanation, I suspect because the alternative interpretation was worse (i.e. that this was part art, part publicity stunt). And I just honestly believe if he had done the piece in earnest, he would NOT have explained it. He would have accepted the possibility that the worse interpretation would become THE interpretation as the price for doing work authentic to his vision.
I come to this conclusion because artists are no less susceptible (IMO) to wrap themselves and their work “in noble cloth” than anyone else, even when what they’re peddling is actually “bull$h!t”. People do it all the time. Republicans wrap all sorts of “bull$h!t” policy and legislation in the flag and patriotism, Shock jocks wrap themselves in “free speech” whenever they get challenged on something they said.
We can’t always retroactively rehabilitate people’s actions by discerning some great meaning that wasn’t there originally. Sometimes it’s just people being crude, sometimes it’s just politicians trying to claw for more power, and sometimes it’s just artists trying to garner attention by being provocative. Sometimes.
Really you miss him? That goodoldboy is probably in hot place right now and with the damage he did and the hypocrisy he lived… I’m glad hes gone baby gone.
good question .. i don’t dig what he stood for except as something to oppose and maybe it’s that i enjoy standing in opposition, just on principle. but there is something that i cannot quite articulate. perhaps it can be seen right here in both Todd and DG agree with his deading the NEA. politics makes for the most unlikely of bedfellows ..
oop my bad i meant DQ ~
“At times I find religion to be sacrileges, so………
Religion is the the practice of worshipping that which you hold sacred. In most cases that’s ones interpretation of God, but technically, Meek is praising what he worships using praise and worship words.”
YES! Comment of the day. I said somethin similar upthread. How yall gon tell him what to hold sacred and what not to? Smh
You’re right. I think it’s a pretty pure expression of religion through the lens of American culture as well. In more churches than I’m comfortable with religion and materialism one in the same. In fact, I think materialism and religion are the two most prominent pillars of American identity.
good size-up.
that’s what she said.
Wow, Panama, you really should have warned us how ignorant this song is.
Here is the deal with current commercial hip hop; it is being made by high school dropouts who can’t speak intelligently about anything other than buying Bentleys, going to ‘skrip’ clubs, killing ‘n*ggas and having sex.
And thus, I find this song and most other hip hop unbelievably boring! The religious twist is totally not the point with this song, IMO. The unabashed ignorance is really what this song is about.
*mini-rant over*
Go listen to neo-soul with all the boughie types. Despite my education, I’d rather deal with honest ignorance that fake wisdom you get from the boughie. At their core, so many boughie types act like Meek Mill, but use better vocab. Grrr…
*rant off*
Perhaps I’m just desensitized b/c this song was no more ignant than half the other stuff i hear on the radio.
your second paragraph is why folks love Nas so much. he’s still a high school dropout, but at least he attempts to fumble through topics he knows nothign about.
*shots fired*
As much as I like Nas, I still agree with the broader argument. I’d rather ignant ninjas still to ignant ninja ish as opposed to pretend to be intellectual to do a song-and-dance routine for the intellectuals. Coonin’ is still coonin’ even if the audience is high-falutin’ and boughie.
Yeah, I agree with you Todd. I’d much rather ignorance that doesn’t pretend to be anything but ignorance. It always sounds better and puts me in a better mood anyway. I can’t front though, I don’t think Nas knows NOTHING about those topics, but he doesn’t always do them justice or delve deep enough into the complexities of the topics, but let’s keep it real, you can only say so much in 16 bars and rapping about complex topics is a lot harder than rapping about ignorance. I know from experience and sh*t lol
i do too. but maybe thats why f*cking it up over 16 bars is not the way to go.
Ras Kass was spitting all kinds of actual knowledge and he rearely stuck to the script. its possible. its just hard to sell records and do it at the same time.
yeah but it’s little black kids black kids the emulate this fuqery.
The question shouldn’t be which kind of ignorance or whose ignorance you prefer, it should be why so much ignorance.
TRUTH!
@ Panama- I may have heard a song or two from Ras Kas back in the day, but I need to listen to more of him if he successfully pulled that off without puttin ninjas to sleep. Got any recommendations? But yeah that’s my point. At least people know who Nas is and have heard his music…so watering it down seems like a solid strategy…
@ DemonDog- Yeah I’m goin through that crisis with my 6 year old niece so I feel u. We need a kid’s version of hip hop or somethin. It’s outta control, because it’s everywhere. Even if u play all CDs of your own in your car, they’ll still hear the f*ckery relatively often somehow
@ Val- You’re right. There needs to be way more balance. I certainly don’t have the answers….
x_x *going* *gone* *Imdead*
Shrug.
The song is aight.
Seriously, it’s catchy and all, but I can’t say I’m a huge fan of it. As for the blasphemy behind it, I don’t see it. As far as I’m concerned, folks who always talk about church, God and “Jesus is my lord and saviour, thank you for waking me up today”, especially on Twitter and Facebook are the most annoying people out there. So with this, I say take it for what it is, a catchy song.
People kill in the name of their god. Slaughter hundreds of people in the name of religion, and I’ll be a hypocritical liar if I said I cared about this song more than I care about the deaths of thousands in the name of some god. Cause I truthfully don’t care about either. Harsh? Perhaps. True? Yes.
And I’m catholic.
People will thank or pray to Jesus for anything:
- bowel movements
- parking spots
- an Idris Elba lookalike
Pfft. I’m sure he doesn’t have time for all that while plotting our extermination as foretold by Revelations. Your dog’s haircut ranks lower than calling up angels of vengeance.
so it’s not like The Sims?!
To my Sims, I am God. Feel my wrath! I giveth and I taketh away!
“As far as I’m concerned, folks who always talk about church, God and “Jesus is my lord and saviour, thank you for waking me up todayâ€, especially on Twitter and Facebook are the most annoying people out there.”
Now, I’m truly gonna have to have you PREACH that AGAIN!!! Oh, lord, yes! Up thread I spoke about this. My friend had a myspace page back in the day when myspace was popular and it was Jesus pimped out! I just smdh every time I looked at her page. And, she does the SAME shyt on FB too. She has ME praying so I don’t go off on her!
you are right.
folks lost reverence for God long ago. this song is just another in the line of the same things i read on Twitter.
I don’t think they went too far. I’ve been to many blogs and the comments are sprinkled with Amen, Church, add my $$ to the collection plate, etc. Is that blasphemous?
Yeah, the song has a gospel feel to it but…(shoulder shrug). I myself have forgot that some songs were gospel because they had a secular feel.
I put this song right next to Mercy. A song I think I shouldn’t like but will start singing it the minute it comes on the radio….because I just can’t give them my money-that would be funding foolishness.
i still hate “mercy”
Thank you for writing this blog. I think what bothered me the most is Meek’s attitude toward the preacher and really his overall ignorance. Frankly he knew what/who to exploit. He would have never said L’Chaim (sp) because Drake takes his Jewish faith seriously. Meek coming from Philly where a large portion of his supporters/friends are Muslim so he would have never said “Its some bad bitches in the building. Inshallah” They would’ve been at his neck. It comes down to what are these artists willing to so to have success. Many artists have done things seen as blasphemy but usually when the are trying to make a point or pushing the envelope creatively.
This song does none of that.
Now I wanna hear “(Not) Poppin Bottles in Da Club- Allah Akbar!”…
Or “Got a Bish- Mazel tov!”…
In fairness to Drake, he redid his Bar Mitvzah for the video to HYFR, complete with renting out a synagogue to redo the religious part. As a result, the rabbis who ran the synagogue put out a press release making it clear that they didn’t support his lyrics.
Simply put, I’m just waiting for Drake to redo “Ghetto Quran” by 50 Cent, then shoot the video in Mecca with belly dancers and bottles of vodka.
well played.
i was just about ot mention the HYFR video.
I wanna see him re-do his bris.
*chuckles*
MAn Ghetto Qu’Ran is my SH!T! Certainly my favorite 50 song (besides How to Rob or The Art of Getting Robbed whatever that song’s actual title is). That song reminds me of high school on the bus goin to away games…good times
True. And it’s not a real risk, because they’re (may) not (be) risking anything they hold dear.
Exactly. People feel like Christianity is fair game to disrespect. But let some of that stuff come out of their mouth or their keyboard about Judaism or Islam. I double dog dare you. Hypocrites.
You must live in some parallel universe where Islam is protected. Police, politicians, and the majority of Americans actively harass, attack, and murder people who are Muslim. That’s not even getting into things like white feminist women who are constantly trying to “save” Muslim women by snatching off their head coverings. Islam is openly insulted and misinformation is constantly spread on every type of news network. Islam is FAR from protected in Western society.
I’m aware of attacks on Islam and Judaism in general. I’m talking about the liberal community that has been foaming at the mouth about Christianity because they are butt hurt the Bible dared speak against homosexuality and they won’t get over it.
White liberals are the worst ones. Funny enough though, the majority of them are also Christians.
Ah, White liberal Christianity, where God is a children’s TV character full of love and…I dunno, love?
Seriously, their tolerance through banality makes Christianity look WORSE, not better.
Hold on a moment. The Christian Church broadly condemns a lifestyle that a significant part of the population lives, and you expect that part of the population to greet them with hosannas and praise? Forget whether the condemnation is just or not. It’s just foolish to assume a welcome stance from that.
+1@Todd
No, I want them to get over it. The scriptures saying that homosexuality is an abomination was in the Bible before Jesus even showed up. It’s not going anywhere. I want yall to quit thrashing about screaming about how unfair it is and get the eff over it.
I’m a liberal and I consistently say how awful Saudi Arabia is/any other theocracy, I don’t see any of the Abrahamic religions as better or worse they are all based off fairy tales and misogyny. And I post up the madness that Hasidic Jews do as well… ie. stoning little girls, segregated buses in NYC, or photoshopping Hillary Clinton out of photos because it’s ‘immodest’.
I am an equal opportunity religion mocker.
“You must live in some parallel universe where Islam is protected.”
Right! I was lookin at the screen like o_O
Ha! Very poignant observation. If he insulted Islam, brother’s would take it extreme to teach him deen.
I also remember when the All About the Benjamins video came out, when they get the part when Jadakiss says, “..You should do like we do/stack chips like Hebrews”, they actually censor that part. That’s not a coincidence.
Reminds me of that that Too Short interview, when he says that an executive at Jive told him that he needs to use more profanity in his music. He was dumbfounded.
We should not be.
Rhymefest isn’t so far off…
Bond.
This song absolutely, positively sucks. I’m more offended by the suckiness than anything else.
PS. Meek Mill is rather hard on the eyes….well my eyes anyway.
Tell me they don’t look alike tho
Meeky
http://hiphopwired.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/12/5marq-meek.jpg
Dr. King
http://www.toptenz.net/wp-content/uploads/2012/01/King-Jr-Martin-Luther.jpg
Lawd forbid he play MLK in a biopic.
I never realized that before. Well, we know what he’s going to be doing in 20 years. LOL
holdefon.
this song absolutly does not suck. its poetry mixed with unicorn hooves and kitten paws.
lmfao. I haven’t heard the song yet, but I doubt it has anything on kitten paws.
The devil completely took over…
ROTFL, man I am tweeting this today. TODAY.
So I dled Trey Songz “2 reasons” the other day. I heard the song on the radio and really liked the beat. Also, not gonna lie here but I also like Trey. So I think on the radio he says he came to the club for the “girls and the drinks.” Well, I am getting ready to start my jog, hit the play button on my iPhone (I also only dl the true ignant versions of songs) and when it got to the chorus and he says “b!tches and drinks” why did I stop dead in my tracks? Like I literally had a come to Jesus moment on a trail over this song. I was thinking that here I am about to enter another decade of life and I am shocked, just absolutely shocked, that this man would so blatantly say that he only came to the club for “b!tches and drinks.” An R&B singer nonetheless. How dare he? And after about 3 minutes running around with what was probably the look of my 20 something yr old self battling my soon to be 30 yr old self I said “f$ck it” and kept it moving. Been blasting that song in my car for the past week. I say all of that to say that before, if I liked a song then I liked the song. If the beat was hot and I could “feel” the lyrics, then I am good. That is starting to slowly change though. I see it coming. I’m getting older and now the words in the songs are really starting to hit home since the words now go against what i feel should be expected of an r&b singer. Especially coming from a genre that should be singing about my chocolate skin and wonderfulness. Nope, now they have me singing about “b!tches and some drinks.”
I don’t have a strong connection to the church and never really have. When someone says “church” or “amen” (as a lot of us do when someone says something that we agree with on this site) I just see it as a strong way of agreeing. I never looked at it as us being disrespectful to the Lord. Also, I went to a white church as a kid so that piano rift only did something for me bc you prepared me for it. So for them to say church and amen as having a strong agreement for what they are saying is fine bu me.
I won’t look too hard into this song. It’s catchy. I like Drake. Meek sounds like…yet another rapper that can’t seem to get his diction together. The beat is nice.
Maybe you have a problem with the song bc it goes completely against what you expect from the genre which probably isn’t the case bc I don’t feel like anything is outside the boundaries of rap for them to rap about and make it into a hit song.
well i go to the club for the finger foods and the drinks, if that makes you feel any better
I don’t know how i feel about eating at a club. That just doesn’t seem right.
Then clearly you’ve never seen a strip club buffet table.
Nope. Never have and probably never will.
I have really been disliking Trey songs lately. That “Heart Attack” song makes me want to bash my head into a wall. I acknowledge “2 reasons” is catchy but I hate it too. I know I’m a sucker for a good beat; I’ve accepted my reality.
Yep. When i am working out, i need a serious beat and depending on how i feel, the beat can be slow, hard, classical, techno, etc. But when i heard him talking about b!tches and drinks…you don’t even understand how fast that stopped me on my jog. I mean, i gave my iPhone a side eye like it was the iPhone’s fault for making him say it.
with some artists, namely the “enlightened” rappers and r&b singers (for the most part) i’m usually caught off guard when i hear the rampant use of the word b*tches…mostly b/c for the singers, they’re selling to women…but apparnetly many women dont’ give a f*ck. i think you all almost expect it nowadays. not sure what to do with that, but i think its where we are at this point.
that is sad.
I wasn’t expecting it at all. If my favorite artist Musiq comes out saying things like this, then I have lost all hope.
I don’t see how it can be surprising. Trey Songz been trying to rap for the past 3 years now, so him cursing should be the afterthought. Chris Brown…same thing, plus with his rep, no surprise there at all. The whole “R&B singers wanting to be rappers, and rappers wanting to be singers” issue has been going down for almost 10 years now.
You want to be surprised by something? Listen to jazz covers of rap songs. That’ some surprising shyte right there.
The word “AMEN” is not solely religion-based. In fact, loosely defined, amen is used to show that you identify and or agree with what has been said.
As for “church,” it annoys me every time I hear a wanna be pimp use the word.
That being said, I don’t dislike this song because of the usage of these words in what appears to be a, what’s the word, ignorant-like (?) manner. I dislike the song because it doesn’t move me. At all.
*I dislike the song because it doesn’t move me. At all.*
Me either. And keep in mind, like many people, sometimes I can listen to a song if I like the beat (I’ll just ignore the lyrics). But even here the sample isn’t even creative. You want to hear a creative use of a Gospel Sample? Check Big KRIT’s King Pt. 2. Now THAT to me is a hot beat. It doesn’t hurt that KRIT’s lyrics are in a different galaxy compared to Meek Mill… but check how he uses the sample. THAT is how you do it (to let me tell it)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mibBfWeMy1w&feature=related
Ehhh….I like K.R.I.T. and don’t dislike that song, but the beat on that one isn’t nearly as good as the one today’s post is about imo. Music is so subjective. I can tell a lot of people that frequent this site (and Northerners in general) really like more laid back and introspective beats. I’m more picky about laid back beats. I gravitate towards the upbeat tracks so that’s probably why I like the Drake beat A LOT better than that K.R.I.T. one. K.R.I.T. has WAAAAAAY better beats than that one imo. Like at least 5 more
I keep hearing people say they like this “church” track… I readily admit, I don’t get it. What exactly is good about it (in your opinion)? I mean, there’s a church sample laid over some 808s… that’s it. Not even figuratively, I mean it’s literally a sample over 808s. If they replaced the church sample with pipe organs from a circus, and called it “Barnum and Bailey” would you still say “that’s hot”? No intentional shade, but I think you are a cheap date for some of these producers, you not even making them work for it.
The KRIT sample to me is WAY more creative and more complex and overall, a WAY better flip than this amen song. But that’s just one man’s opinion, like you said music is subjective… (but I’m right about this one LOL).
The devil icon them
Yah… Meek’s verses were mad disrespectful. I really didn’t have a problem with him saying amen and church..but it was what he was saying amen about.. Like c’mon on son… you can’t say p*$$y and Jesus in the same line. (oops..lol) At the same time, they won’t be the first or the last artists to make a song that’s disrespectful to someone. I just won’t be bobbing my head to this song. I’m not super churchy but I’m still a PK and I think they went a wee bit too far.
Panama,
The entire Hip hop industry is blasphemous in my opinion. I’m wit Liz upthread, don’t pick and choose which songs you have a problem wit. Anyone truly feeling conflicted should have a problem with ALL of it….
Btw, after this statement you made :
It’s like that bridge between secular and gospel rap that 100 percent of all gospel rappers have been looking for but couldn’t find. Real talk, put DMX or some other rapper conflicted about his spirituality and likes to talk about it over that beat and you might have your first respectable gospel rap song.
Being the hip hop music snob you are I’m shocked you haven’t mentioned Lecrae – http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CaTXRaSvq-M
or Trip Lee – http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yffLkBcDEjQ
They bringin real gospel hip hop to the forefront. None of dat cornball stuff. Lecrae was even on the BET 2011 Hip hop Cypher. If they chose to do secular rap, they’d kill every cat in the game RIGHT NOW.
I’m very familiar with Lecrae and Trip Lee. I’ve been GIVEN their albums by folks trying to save my soul and get me into gospel rap that i could relate too. can’t say they moved me that much. they’re good rappers. don’t get me wrong. but i also never really liked KRS-One or Guru (<—not really a good rapper) so its a personal taste thing. Lecrae’s After the Music Stops album has been given to me like 4 times. lol. I listen but it just didn’t move me.
I hear ya. To each his own, but to say there’s absolutely no hot gospel rap artist out there is just… -_- in my book. Congrats on tha web series tho!
Yea, there are only a few Lecrae songs I like, but his mixtape Church Clothes was alright with me.
Abrey and swap meet Yeezy lack a certain level of sincere introspection that might make me okay with this…
But what do I know… I have a problem with the fact that Tasha Mack keeps her bible between her black n milds and bottle of Hennessy.
No shots fired… I think this song reflects how we (as a people) get down.
The reality is I am entertained… aren’t you
And it doesn’t get much deeper than that ~JS
“swap meet Yeezy”?
BOL!!
I guess my issue is not with the song itself. I don’t know if it’s even an issue. As much as I claim to love hip hop, I don’t listen to it nearly as much, and it’s not a result of “religion”, but rather my relationship with Christ that gives me certain convictions and pulls me away from things without condemning those who are still there. The two are not the same. Religion, for me, is what is expected by others to show your relationship. Relationship is what God expects of me, and is often demonstrated in my religion. *Kanye Shrug* I wonder if people who are ultimately offended are offended because it “feels wrong” as Panama said, or because it “IS wrong” and is in direct conflict with their daily convictions and practices.
I guess ultimately it doesn’t matter, because I never would’ve heard this song if I didn’t read the blog. It wouldn’t have been an issue for me to have. And the song doesn’t necessarily make me angry. It just makes me turn it off to do something else. Is that because of the sub-par rhyming skills that only seem better because of the beat and the fact that today’s rap is so full of mediocrity that what I just heard seems to be a cut above, or because of the religious references? Who knows.
P, I so feel you on this post. I listen to the song and I can’t help but yell out PREACH! And I am so very conflicted. I don’t have any children but I teach young adults and I just KNOW they’s going to be all twisted and mixed up with this song. I hate myself for liking it. For tapping my feet and singing along….there’s some bad b*tches in the building? I’m finna to kill some ninjas in the building. She told me she wanna f. And I said church?….It’s killing me on the inside. But this song is more of a reflection of us and the current state of society than it is the ignorant states of Mills and Drake. Great Post!
“She told me she wanna f. And I said church?”
I think that was the line that made me cringe the most.
These cats serious…they’d take ova hip hop if they wanted too.
Lecrae 2011 BET Hip Hop Cypher – http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sNreuQOW14I
More Trip Lee – http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BrbP6gMsxRc&feature=related
I heard the beat/production more than the lyrics so I looked them up: http://rapgenius.com/Meek-mill-amen-lyrics. “Church” and “amen” don’t necessarily bother me. It’s the blatant thanking God for things you know He doesn’t approve of (or at least the means by which they were “earned”) that ruffles my feathers (even though I want to shake a tail feather or two).
I do listen to hip-hop but most of commercial hip-hop is…meh. And while we, the black community, make the music/dissect/vacillate between love and hate for hip hop, the mostly young, white consumers gobble it up. They get to be simply ENTERTAINED by it while we SUFFER from it–our identities, our community, our collective spirit. For what? The all-mighty dollar. Their religion. A bad religion, IMHO.
“They get to be simply ENTERTAINED by it while we SUFFER from it–our identities, our community, our collective spirit. For what? The all-mighty dollar.”
AGREED`
+ 1
LOOK AT YOU LINKING TO RAPGENIUS!
Haha! While sometimes it is annoying because you need to look at some songs holistically and not just line by line, I heart rap genius! (Especially because, half of the time, idk what these kids are referencing – says the 24 y/o haha)
” It’s the blatant thanking God for things you know He doesn’t approve of ”
I don’t mean to attack you (so please don’t take it that way) but how do YOU know what God does and doesn’t approve of? (I challenge you to answer this without referencing the Bible)
“(I challenge you to answer this without referencing the Bible)”
Eh, seeing as how the Bible is the only means of knowing where God stands on things, that’s kind of an unreasonable request.
“Eh, seeing as how the Bible is the only means of knowing where God stands on things, that’s kind of an unreasonable request.”
Are you serious?!?! You mean it’s the only means you choose to accept of knowing where God stands on things? (assuming God takes a stand on things)
If I’m understanding your question correctly, then yes.
Of course there’s prayer but even with that you have make sure whatever answer you believe you’ve gotten does not fall out of line with the Bible.
Are there others means of knowing Gods opinion other than one thing we as Christians believe wholeheartedly he had a hand in creating?
If you’re talking about the God of the bible, any reply other than “He’s personally convicted me of xyz”, is going to come from the bible.
Why did you ask me not to reference the Bible? But if you want to take religion/God/spirituality out of it, a lot of people, philosophies, moral codes, etc. speak against misogyny and materialism (just to name a few).
“Why did you ask me not to reference the Bible?”
Because I’m interested in hearing about what other evidence people have for claiming that they know what God wants. I can’t think of any other aspect of life that it’s completely acceptable to get the entire story from one document. That’s similar to investing your entire portfolio into one stock. What if it turns out to be wrong or inaccurately translated/modified? I just don’t think it’s realistic to say what God would or wouldn’t approve of (maybe if you’re talkin about from yourself, but not from someone else). If God is omnipotent why does he care what Meek Millz is thankful for or what he says in a song?
“But if you want to take religion/God/spirituality out of it”
I don’t. I just don’t want to give one book authority over every other book.
Don’t get me wrong, I’m not arguing that God co-signs this message. I’m leaning more towards “he doesn’t care”. If I was omnipotent I’d be laughin at everything you humans do…
Im with you on this whole post PJ. I don’t really attend church often but I do have a christian upbringing and yes I do feel conflicted by this song. Did they go too far? Maybe, I can’t really say. When I first heard it it suprised me but it was dope as hell tho. Not only do I like the beat, I like the harmonizing in the back…..and by the way “lord forgive them, they got them dark forces in them.” is one of my favorite lines.
“NEVERMIND THAT HE STARTED IT WITH AN IGNANT NINJA PRAYER!!”
Which is like the introductory paragraph to a paper. I had to play this song 5x to make sure id heard what i heard and in true ninja fashion…they drikin ciroc in the video #ProductPlacement Amen.
I choked when Aubrey Graham spewed “And yo hood aint hood enough.” Like, you forgot where your “hood” resides. Sigh
I honestly think that this accurately describes some church goers. Think about it…i just think i know one thing. If we keep up this ninja nonsense our ancestors gon come back from the dead and haunt our a$$es. Amen…China cant come fast enough for me!!!
“I choked when Aubrey Graham spewed “And yo hood aint hood enough.†Like, you forgot where your “hood†resides. Sigh”
Ha! Man, how did I miss that? Smh, you right though. He’ll slip some sh*t in there from time to time but sadly the record doesn’t stop for us to all give him the side eye lol
LOL, I paused for a moment on that myself, like “where is Drake from…”
see, people always blowinn up their own spot. they don’t need any help from us. circus is in town, clown cars pullinn up ..
The beat is dope. The lyrics were made probably smoking dope. The organ in the back ground on what is apparently a Saturday night in the club was weird. The apparent Sunday morning hangover is relateable. LOL The elders always said, “If you can take your arse out on Saturday night, you betta be in church Sunday morning. No excuses.” And, don’t you know we’d party until the sun came up and then some, and then go get ready for CHURCH!!! LOL Yeah, hollaring ‘church’ or ‘amen’ to certain lyrics seems a bit out of order. I guess it would only matter to church going folks or deeply sentimental feeling folks of the church. But, since I’m part heathen, only part of me has issues with it.
No big shock there….*smirks*….how’re things?
Half Heaven; Half Heathen. The rest should be so lucky.
Oh… you dropping in to play with nilla occasionally now, huh? Okay, I like it. But, don’t tease me too much. I like keeping it real. You know this.
well…i can say that I am a (non bible thumper) Christian and try to attend church regularly….now i can ALSO say that the first song i was truly seeking out on Meek Mill’s “Dreamchasers” offering was “Amen”….am i conflicted about it? usually. more so than I am about sometimes throwin it back to Lil Wil’s “Bust it Open”? nah. i think commercial rap only has one stone left to turn over as it regards to who’s left to be offended and… the pulpit is it! …so problematic though it may be i’ll keep bumping it’s infectious beat, with the windows down…to scare the white folk and trust that God knows my heart… smh
I wonder, do most black men feel pressured to act like the degenerates portrayed in this video? The whole thing made my stomach turn.
It is a tad vainglorious for my liking. Then in the next song these a$$hats (Aubrey mostly) will complain about being rich or having things.
yes i intend to live my life exactly like the “Amen” and the “Pop That” videos (oh, if you didn’t like Amen, PLEEEEASE don’t watch the French Montana Pop that video, lmao…y’all were warneded!)
I actually came across that video the other day and a few observations:
1. Diddy was too busy to be there so sent a bottle of Ciroc as his substitute
2. Drake might’ve did the most awkwardest ass slap on a chick ever
3. Wayne been skating for a while yet he seems to have no more skills than an average 10 year old
“Diddy was too busy to be there so sent a bottle of Ciroc as his substitute”
BOL. Gold.
I hate to be the old woman in the building, and I never thought I’d say it, but this is what’s wrong with Black people. This right here. The whole idea of this song.
@ WC- Care to elaborate? I don’t wanna jump to conclusions about what you mean by that statement but I am a lil curious
Consumerism, the glorification of destructive excess and how it shapes the attitudes and goals of our young people.
Where is the glorification of a healthy bank account and zero debt? I had to learn that from immigrants.
This is why we lag behind as a people. We value the wrong things.
+ 1000!
TELL EM!
Dear Gen. X,
Tell us how you really feel.
Signed, Gen Y
@ WC- Ok, I see what u mean and agree. It’s not just black people though. It’s an American thing now, but black people just have the slimmest margin of error as usual. You say you learned it from immigrants, I learned it from books and seminars. Its sucks when you have to seek out such critical knowledge for yourself despite living in such a privileged and seemingly progressive nation.
As far as us valuing the wrong things I agree. I think hip hop took one baby step in the right direction when they started encouraging black folks to be “about their money” rather than just pride (some older generations think wealthy folks are greedy and usually amoral, so at least the new generation won’t feel that way), but they took three steps back by makin kids think money was solely for materialism and reckless consumerism. Plus they talk about money on EVERY song but don’t tell kids how to actually make money (besides “sell rocks”) or how to make that money make more money. Teach the kids about acquiring actual assets. Maybe the next generation of emcees will take that next step… “Wealth is the word. Rich is round the corner from the curb”
WC, what you see right here right now is the failure of one generation to raise the next.
@ Tentpole
I’ts more like babies raising babies. It’s difficult to impart wisdom when you have yet to navigate through life to have the lessons learned material yourself.
Touche
Shuffles over next to you with my walker.
To me, this video explains all of the dumb wanna-be baller behavior, stupid pick-up lines, ho-expectations projected onto me, requests for threesomes, and all ofthe other shenanigans that woud make otherwise dateable and loveable men just too tiresome to put up with.
This video is a representation of the giant graveyard where all of the good man qualities go to die.
That’s because for young people, too many external forces keep gravitating you towards things you shouldn’t do as things YOU NEED TO DO.
For instance, if a teenage boy wants to get a girl’s attention, and they’ve both watched the same music videos of poppin tags, poppin bottles and big booties shaking, most likely shorty is going to ask him “Where Them Dollas At”. He’ll believe that hard work and effort mean nothing due to that reaction, and instead gaining material items and showing off is the right means to attention. Add to that his peers will usually have the same mentality and his parents won’t be paying much attention to his personal life, so they won’t even realize this is how he really feels about the world.
It’s real easy to criticize the youth for being dumb but there’s so much stuff out there literally forcing them to be dumb that it’s not surprising.
So youth have zero grasp of reality thanks to music, tv, and the media at large. Got it.
Lol @ AfroPetite- It’s not just the tv and music though (although don’t underestimate how often young folks are either watching tv or listening to music), it’s the combination of those things along with peers, busy or ill-informed parents/relatives, personal character flaws, lack of exposure to people who are doing things the more productive way, the (first world) culture of immediate gratification and convenience (produced by the prevalence of sophisticated technology) combined with youth and immaturity etc; When you combine all those things it becomes unlikely that the average person will get it together in time. But to your point it’s still the individual’s responsibility to get their sh*t together
Why did you exclude the parental guidance? That’s just as important if not more.
And let’s be real, too many children today are raised by appliances. Regardless of anyone’s arguments, a child’s view of the world is affected by their environment, their peers, their caregivers, and social external factors. I work in the projects and I see the product of children with no parental guidance, too much time to watch tv and listen to hip hop that’s degrading, wearing clothes that looked good on an adult but should never be on a child, while emulating all the acts adults do, including sex. You can’t be sarcastic about that.
Sadly, the answer is yes. Otherwise, you’re a sucker who is just begging to get beat up.
And I’m only half-joking. The pressure to be as cold and vain as possible is real, since it’s the only real source of power Black men regularly have access to.
Hail sith power!
you just reminded me of Fab 5 Freddy’s intro to Jamel Shabazz’s Back in the Days. damn you even got me goinn to the library to bust it out.
Fred talks about how by being cool, “acting calm, emotionless, fearless, aloof, and tough, the African American male shows both the dominant culture and the black male that he is strong and proud. He is somebody. He is a survivor in spite of the systematic harm done to by the legacy of slavery and the realities of racial oppression or the centuries of hardships and mistrust. For sure, the cool pose represented a way for many young brothers to defend themselves against the indignities and inequities of ghetto life.”
what kills me is we know the old models. Bam. Flash. Caz. sheeeit I saw Busy Bee rock the mic over a Wu Tang beat in Central Park and my knees went soft. guys still out there. tomorrow, Crotona Park ! shout out to Christie Z for runninn thangs fro ten years.
but even if everyone ain’t reppinn for the Bronx in the 70s, even the second wave, dudes Shabazz photographed, the 80s, that was speak truth to power right there cause there was no money in hip hop. remember when vinyl got phased out in favor of cds and people were talkinn about conspiracy theory to kill hip hop just as it was cominn up?
damn. feel like Nas talkinn about Memory Lane.
but yea, my point, i know i have one. this right here, this is the price to be paid for making $$$
So that’s the answer. The next time someone asks why I’m still single I will tell them that all of the men who are my type have been eaten up by the swag monster. You have to be that way to get the swag-loving chicks. Apparently, 10 of those chicks is worth way more than one of me.
You’re a minority looking for another minority. You know how hard that is when the vast majority outweighs you. For everyone one of you, there’s 1000x of them, so you’ll have to go through quite a few losers just to find your winner. But in the end, remember it’s just a phase for most of the men you meet. They don’t know any better at the moment but years down the line, many will have learned their lesson and laugh at how stupid they used to be.
That made me feel better, but I don’t know if time is on my side. I’m 35.
I understand and I at times feel bad for the women I meet 35 & up because most of the men they will find won’t have a clean slate at all, but unfortunately that is the struggle.
Well, back in the days in college, women like you stayed booed up. Besides, I had the sad luck of straddling the line between intellectual pursuits like science and eventually politics and cultural criticism and the more traditional pursuits like sports, working out and hip-hop. Truth be told, I never figured it out as much as I said “F it, I’m doing my own thing”. Whether that’s a good thing or not is another story.
To me, getting a good man is like snapping up an undervalued house. Good values his parents taught him and he isn’t so mad that it hasn’t gotten him women. Yet. Gotta get them before they decide to turn into a-holes. But that usually means before 25 or 26. Then there are the few who resist the pressure and stay strong in their values. But they usually get snapped up quick.
So what do you consider good values? I’m curious to find out.
water seeks its own level. you rise to the top. stay afloat ~*~
now that’s a Bawse answer.
*goes off to stack his books, rack on top of racks*
in some ways probably. though i’m guessing that changes over time as you grow up. i have no desire to pop bottles or anything considering how much that costs when i can get a bottle and pre-game for 1/5 of the price.
so no, i dont feel pressure to act that way. i think most men would like to know that life at least once though.
Part of me wants to know what it’s like, just to get it out of my system. But it reminds me of when I had a talk with my cousin years ago. He’s a pretty boy, had broads lined up for him on a daily basis. I envied him a lot for that attention because I never got it, until one day he confessed that all those girls meant nothing and their attention was really hollow and empty, he wanted something more meaningful like the experiences I had. So the grass is always greener I guess.
No one tries ‘just a little crack’ or ‘just a little meth’…
This is my first time hearing this song and it doesn’t make me feel much. (The piano loop is dope.) Meek’s voice annoys me more than Von Pea’s does so I’m kinda impressed by that. (Kinda) Like others have stated hip hop has always infused religion or religious wording in odd ways so this isn’t new.
I may have been imaging this due to my lack of sleep lately but I could have sworn I heard a gospel song that flipped “Freak You In the Morning” by Lathan from the old So So Def Allstars. Oh well.
I always wondered how those of the Islamic faith felt about rappers using their ideology in rap though.
I know in college, the more devout Muslims had an issue with it. Then again, they have an issue with the gnostic tradition embodied in the Nations of Gods and Earths, but that’s a whole ‘nother post.
“Then again, they have an issue with the gnostic tradition embodied in the Nations of Gods and Earths, but that’s a whole ‘nother post.”
I had one convo with my friend Kareem about the Nations of God and Earths and he had nothing nice to say but we never got into the traditional Islamic version of that. You are correct about that being a whole ‘nother post too.
I guess i didnt read too much into it, its no more ignant than ninjas who praise Tebow and Based God. God made me in his likeness so i mean he gotta have a sense of humor too right…if not forgive me for my sins im just tryna win n shit…
In other news…Nas probably out the greatest hip hop album in the past couple years (sans Miguel attempting to rap)
really. you really think thats the case. cuz i don’t.
you think its better than even MBDTF?
*sigh* Drake and Meek going straight to hell with gasoline draws on for this one.
Honestly, I didn’t listen to or watch the video. I try my best not to pollute my soul with mess and based on PJs account and the comments, I know my inner child would weep bitter tears if I do so. To each his own, but this type of mess is not for me….I already have enough daily struggles.
S/N: Tupac’s “Hail Mary” didn’t cause any conflict for me personally because it was not using shock, awe, innuendos or slick shid to be intentionally disrespectful…and I would listen to that song while waving to the decon in the parking lot at church on any given Sunday.
Breezy,
I took a listen, against my better judgement, and found the song didn’t do it for me. All I could think about when they were talking about all the money they were getting was an old testament scripture: Rember the Lord your God for it is he that gives tou the ability to produce wealth……. Aubrey should take the passage to heart since I’m sure he covered it when he was reading the Torah.
Turn your Bibles to Deuteronomy Chapter 8, Verse 18. Read along with me…
I mentioned below I didn’t think it was that bad on the “potentially blasphemous” language. I’m sure I’ve heard worse. The beat is exactly what I tend to go for though.
“Its hard to defend hip hop today…”
- Chris Rock
Good morning panama,
Its been awhile, good sir-how are ya? And, given the intimate nature of todays topic, i felt compelled to toss a thought or two into the pot.
Ive spoken on a several occasions in the not too distant past about hip hops history and the changes it has undergone; changes that are in my view not for the better. I have argued that these changes not only speak to a lowering of standards within hip hop itself, but they also reflect a lowering of standards of the black community as a whole. There was a time in hip hops history where being educated actually meant something; it just wasnt for those who were lucky or even honestly talented enough to go to college. Brothas on the block could be seen with actual books in their hands. Sistas took inspiration from the relatively few lady rappers out there and followed suit. Knowing oneself and respecting oneself, was accepted as a given, not seen as an oddity.
And then…the N*ggas came. The Dark Times. A pox on all our houses.
Whats going on in hip hop is a devastating-and damning-commentary about whats going on with US; simply put, the current hip hop scene reflects how the black community has not only failed to keep our once proud traditions alive, but how we have also failed to pass them on to succeeding generations. That meek mill can even occur in the same city that gave birth to NeoSoul and had within its ranks some of the finest musicians and rhyme spitters ever known in the annals of hip hop itself, is a deeply painful testament to how far the mighty have fallen, indeed. Meek mill couldnt carry the water of ANY of the rappers that formed the lyrical muscle of the Soulquarians, and not only do you know it-EVERYONE reading this right now who knows anything about NeoSoul knows it too. To compare anything meek mill has done with other bottom feeders like drake or rick ross to the aforementioned collective-or for that matter late-greats like tupac or biggie-is something that would qualify as truly blasphemous.
Not too long ago, when a new cut dropped in the streets one of the first things that would be done is a thorough inspection of the rappers lyrics-not only was his flow/delivery carefully scrutinzed, but so too was his sense of meter, his word choice and how he put it all together to weave/tell an interesting story.
So, i printed out meek mills “amen” lyrics.
And. Was. Appalled.
Just as i was appalled by last summers “hit”, “six foot/seven foot” by lil wayne and corey gunz-son of the legendary peter gunz, no less(!). In fact, just for old times sake and for purposes of comparison, i placed the printed out lyrics of that song, next to the big pun/black though collabo “super lyrical” from the formers debut outing “capital punishment”. I encourage everyone reading this to try this excercise for yourself-even if youre not a big fan of the artform, youd have to admit and agree with me, that you can literally SEE the devolution of hip hop taking place right before your very eyes.
It is most definitely a painful sight.
Among the books that comprise my summer reading list, is a memoir: “from pieces to weight”. It is the story of one curtis jackson-better known by many as the rapper/business mogul-and one time drug dealer 50 cent. To be honest, i wasnt a huge fan of 50s back when he first blew up; but he grew on me in the intervening years. Part of that reason was, unlike so many of the newer crop of rappers, 50 could, like, you know, actually rap?
Just for kicks, after i read/and heard, ugh, about the whole meek mill fiasco, i decided to print out 50s lyrics to “back down”-again, meek doesnt even come close. But that should come as no surprise-50 makes it clear in his memoir, that his biggest and possibly only inspiration on the mike, was none other than the notorious big himself. “ready to die” remains a true hip hop masterpiece, almost entirely due to biggies rhyme spitting-and story telling mastery on the mic. His “ten crack commandments”-now some fifteen years old-blows the doors off ANYTHING those clowns running around down south could muster together. When the history of hip hop is assessed decades from now, i am certain 50 will get much more than an honorable mention. He certainly has earned my respect. Meanwhile, the cast of characters that pass for hip hop today, like meek mill, will get nothing but scorn.
And rightly so.
A final thought. I.Q. Matters. A lot. And you can see this when comparing all of the aforementioned rappers and producers product. It has long been my contention that northern blacks may indeed be brighter than their southern counterparts for a variety of reasons; but breeding may be one of them. Lets face it, if youre black and north of the mason dixon line, chances are youre mixed-if not literally, then culturally, socially, maybe even romantically and definitely educationaly. All of this is reflected in the norths hip hop-from the roots to big pun. This is not the case with hip hop emanating from the south.
Yet another argument, painful, shocking and controversial as it may be, in favor of the bell curve.
I am deeply ashamed to say that i was born in the same city as meek mill.
The end, is nigh.
O.
*looks at O with the biggest cheesiest smile and nods in agreement*
Precisely! O, I actually missed you. Hope all is well in your neck of the woods.
Well said O. As the pastor says ” it’s not how you pray it’s how you pay. Now will that be cash, check or charge. Now let the church say Amen.
You printed out the words to “six foot/ seven foot”? Yikes, LOL. Dave Chapelle told y’all we can’t resist those drums.
One of my favorite Gospel rappers Bizzle uses a Tupac interview in the opening of his song Liar
“What I want people to know is that don’t
Don’t support the phonies but support the real
You know what I mean, How can these people be talking
About how they so real that they don’t care about our communities
How can they be talking about what they all this the hood blah blah…
They don’t care about our communities, you know what I mean
Listen to the words people say in their lyrics
And tell me if that’s some real sh*t
If that’s real to you, you know what I mean
Listen to what they’re saying
Don’t just bob your head to the beat, peep the game
And listen to what I’m saying and hold us accountable for it”
For more see
http://rapgenius.com/Bizzle-liar-lyrics
Talking about the Soulquarians, I remember an article in a french hipster magazine in the late 90′s early 00′s about the Soulquarians, the Ummah etc, If I remember correctly Questlove and D’Angelo were joking about creating a supergroup to save black Music with Lauryn Hill Erykah Badu, etc…
“It has long been my contention that northern blacks may indeed be brighter than their southern counterparts for a variety of reasons; but breeding may be one of them. Lets face it, if youre black and north of the mason dixon line, chances are youre mixed-if not literally, then culturally, socially, maybe even romantically and definitely educationaly.” Keep going…
This deserves a post of its own b/c i would love to hear the facts to back it up and the arguments that would follow.
and the southern slander continues. lol.
i agree with you for the most part. i do find it interesting that you cite 50 cent as a source of quality given that his entire catalog could mirror half the sh*t that’s out nowadays. which i think beckons to your northern bias. Mobb Deep and them n*ggas had whole album about murdering n*ggas and selling drugs on teh block, but that’s okay. southern ninjas talk about money and f*cking and somehow that’s a problem? gtfoh.
let’s be real. just b/c you rap about getting p*ssy over a soul sample doesn’t make it better. if you’re going to argue style over substance then even there lil wayne would have to go in your list. and im not even a lil wayne champion. he’s kind of an idiot. lol.
50 can rap. yes. but they’re all talking about the same sh*t. meek mill can rap to me. and Drake can definitely spit. now lyrically, yes…you’re right, the subject matter is different, but again…50′s entire persona was of violence. i also don’t know that i’d ever throw 50 into the pot of lyrical cats either.
big pun? yes. 50? no.
southern ninjas talk about money and f*cking and somehow that’s a problem?
I know right. Kool G. Rap could speak on it but not a southern boy.
pretty much. all the northern rappers rapped about the exact same sh*t. just differently. that makes it better.
I don’t even argue with ppl that say sh*t like that no more. They don’t realize how idiotic they sound. Northerners often remind me of white folks and their scientific analysis of why racism was justified. Clearly their superior smmfh
Northern rappers made sure hip hop was an art, these southern folks just use it as a means to an end! No, I am kidding. This type of argument will continue forever because of regional tastes. We all think what we like is better than what others like. It is like me preferring an SUV to a candy apple Impala. I think the latter is ridiculous thing to ever be caught in, its fans will say the same about me. Very pointless (but very entertaining) argument.
Hey O… welcome back. While I agree with a lot of what you’ve said addressing the state of hip hop and its decline I must draw the line at your points about your Southern brethren. I think it’s contradictory for you to call out the South that way when as you exemplified yourself that smart and foolish come from the same places. What exactly was your point in adding that little tid bit? I’m not offended I just don’t agree. You seem to always take this separatism approach which I think ultimately counters any good your message could have.
my boy worked in Rikers teaching English for GEDs when 50 was big and we got deep into the issue of artistic responsibility. i said people need to think for themselves. people choose what they want. he said it’s easy for me to say this because i didn’t come up in the hood.
he said 50 was the reason these guys were gonna get rich or die tryinn, every day. i never saw it with my own eyes so i can’t attest to the affects of his music on anyone but it did get me thinking that you don’t really know how it goes down unless you are on the inside lookinn out.
Off-topic, but if I ever teach again, I’d LOVE to do something like this.
But probably not at Rikers. LOL
The degradation of hip hop is so much more than just the Mason Dixon line. It cannot be broken down to simply locations. I think you (and everyone else here) are fully aware of that though. Since we are discussing factors, I can’t help but think of trust fund kids. I feel like all the rappers mentioned above were the ones doing the leg work. They built hip hop, they forced it into the mainstream conscience. The current crop of kids (I also think the age kids are getting into the game these days has a lot to do with it) are just floating off of their predecessors hard work. Trust fund (not all) kids get to live off of their grand/parents money and lack value because they have no clue what went into making their life so easy. The same thing is happening with today’s rappers.
P way to slide a Jay-Z reference into the post.
There are gospel rappers that have tight production and sick wordplay; the problem is a) the genre isn’t in heavy Clear Channel Communication or Viacom rotation and b) some people will tune out immediately upon hearing the word gospel. I’ve had too many people in my ride head nodin and then realize “Hey he’s talking about God.”
Artists like Lecrae, Trip Lee, R.Swift, and others are putting out good music. It’s just a travesty that to find it is like going on an Indiana Jones quest. My new favorite is chopped and screwed gospel rap; them boys from H-Town are puttin it down.
Word? They really did it? I used to say I was going to make an album of chopped and screwed hymns. I’d love to see how it all worked out! LOL
“chopped and screwed gospel rap” This just doesn’t even sound right.
@ Mena,
The beat reels them in and the words speak truth. How many times have you been on the dance floor (if you do that) and found yourself dancing to some of the most rachet mess. I knew I was in trouble back in the day when I was dancing to a house sonng called Beat that ich with a bat. COME ON NOW!!! Beat that ich with a bat, this reeks domestic abuse but the dancefloor was teeming with women.
To reach those who need to be reached, you may need to think outside the box.
Oh, i understand. It just doesn’t sound right. But i agree. If you want to get the message across to the youth, you need to do what appeals to them.
More power to those who think outside the box.
It the time of Sodom and Gomorrah everything is denial
Well it’s just another song in the rotation for Gospel Happy Hour.
Could you see Bobby Jones introducing this song on Sunday morning.
I’m from a city where they turned the Holy Ghost Dance riff or whatever into a house music track, so this is par.
VSB Psychic Friends Network
last nite i casually referenced Jacob Wrestling the Angel in conversation and realized i needed to post a painting of that scene on one of my blogs and i titled it “my downfall” .. and this morning i spoke with a commenter who was open to the possibility that i did not believe the Bible to be holy (love an open mind and heart).
and that sparked something deeper in me and it ties into this :: i don’t know if any text is holy in and of itself. i am a lady of faith but not of a faith. i am open to all energies so long as they are of love and not fear and hate. i read many texts but i’ve never thought of them as holy because i just don’t know .. so i had to ask myself, as a writer and a believer, what is this all about ..
“…in the beginning was the word…”
i come to VSB and here is the same conversation i am having with myself. do we control words or do words control us? i believe language is a living being, it evolves through each and every one of us and we pass it on to the next generation different than we inherited it. at the same time, i believe that all that is holy is beyond the word, but even if the holy is ineffable, that does not change the power of the word at all.
i wasn’t raised with anything. just left adrift, so i have no ties to the Church, though i have a reverence as i do for all faith. i have no feeling for hypocrisy, because i am a hypocrite and my goal is to empathize rather than judge. course i fail, but i go again. it’s a process, a means, not an end.
i also want to add, PJ, i think this is one of your finest posts. i appreciate the emotions, the insights, the intellect, the ambiguity, the confusion, the passion, the depth you reached ~*~
well thank you.
i think your thoughts mirror many that most of us have.
Much like Breezy, I chose not to listen to the track. Even the description of it sounded like more than I wanted to hear this morning. I will say I remember the HUGE controversy when Hammer started coming out with gospel-infused rap….or even when Tremaine Hawkins got some criticism for singing with Michael Jackson…..or the way Bebe and Cece’s songs only use pronouns and could technically be just a love song. It’s a thin line and it seems that line is being rapidly erased.
Not much else to say, really, because I already know it’s going to turn into yet another “ALL preachers are pimps/churches don’t do nuthin’ for the community/Christians are ALL hypocrites” discussion.
Y’all have an awesome day.
It’s really not that bad. This was the first time I heard the whole song.
Blu & Exile – A Man >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> this
http://www.soulculture.co.uk/music-blog/newmusic/blu-x-exile-a-man-new-music/#axzz20yjPVBid
dude…i have TRIED to get into Blu & Exile. i promise you. i’ve tried and i just aint’ lovin it.
+1 Panama- I don’t get it either….I wanna like em. I really do, but…no…doesn’t move me at all
“if only they weren’t sending me to hell every time I listened to it.”
BOL!!
One of my favorite songs ever in time also has the church organ music in the background-
“Uptown” also featuring Drake. I have run myself ragged on this song. The beat is just everything.
Am I the only one that kinda hates Meek Mills? I barely know who he is but his whole style annoys me even though he seems to find these good beats. I just don’t like him. If I met him in person, I would probably cuss him out eventually. His whole aura makes me roll my eyes.
This is not a new conundrum for us. I believe many of us felt conflicted about singing “Hallelujah” and then immediately saying we were getting money from the “f*cking start.” I’m sure I’m not the only one who’s been jamming like crazy to “Vice a Versa” (Pastor Troy for the lames) and been
afraid of getting struck downmomentarily anxious about saying “I think the Lord is trying to kill me” or suggesting that Christmas was Satan’s birth. We’ve worked around this discomfort before. We just don’t say the questionable sh*t, keep it moving and hope God gives us a nod for attempting to be respectful.WIP,
What’s with the squirrel? If you can find one with a lacefront and use it as your avi call 911 for me because I’ll be slain.
Well it’s actually a chipmunk. I’ll leave it to someone else to Photoshop a wig on its head, LOL
“One of my favorite songs ever in time also has the church organ music in the background”
You may be on to something with the church organ. Everytime I listen to Higher by D’Angelo, you almost get the feeling that he rocked that melody in a service or two. The combination of the organ with the double word play = potential church song. All that was missing was an amen or a thank you Jesus.
HIgher by Deangelo and Tell Him by Lauryn HIll are 2 of my all time favorite joints!!!!!!
“If I met him in person, I would probably cuss him out eventually.” LOL!
I get the shock of it. If Eminem can hit the rap game the way he did and be considered one of the greatest for it, then these gentlemen are making the right moves. Gotta give em somethin’ hot and worth thinking about, even if that thinking causes conflict.
I personally hate everything about it.. the same way I hated most of Eminem’s second album when I finally decided to give him a listen. But the shock and awe that inspired this post did make me listen to it and stirred up my own internal conflict. I’m so exhausted from hating everything else for not fitting into my expectations that I think I will give this one a pass for now.
It’s interesting that you mentioned Eminem’s 2nd LP, because I gave it a listen a few days ago just because. The two overarching themes are of self-loating because of all the messed up stuff his life had prior to the Slim Shady LP and of shock that some underground MC is now considered the same as pop artists who worked their whole lives to be crowd pleasing superstars. He honestly didn’t think he was worth a diamond record, and from what he’s mentioned of his youth, I wouldn’t think so either. To have the world love you when you’ve been told your whole life you aren’t worth sh1t would be jarring to anyone. I’m just thankful he didn’t off himself in the process.
Calm down Todd. You know that hip hop analysis must focus on the fact that the evil rappers can women bitches and the good rappers don’t call women bitches.
But I’m telling the truth. He even said himself that after the Slim Shady LP blew up, he didn’t trust the people he met because he wasn’t sure if they wanted him as he was or the character that was made out of his music. But you’re right. Eminem is one of the bad guys. Le sigh.
We’re in complete agreement here man.
It’s good to see Drake continue his Blasphemy of Abrahamic Faiths series. First, he ticked off the rabbis of the synagogue where he filmed parts of HYFR for his own song. Now he’s guesting on a song that abuses the tradition of the Black Church. I just can’t wait for the video in Mecca where he’s popping bottles of champagne in the Kaaba. Then what’s next? Eating hamburgers at some Hindu shrine? Let’s get it popping Aubrey!
The thing that this song does is lay out what’s always been under the surface in Black popular music. There’s always been a thin line between the sacred and the profane, and this song just lays them out bare. Also, we all know that there are negroes who go straight from the club to church. Heck, during my swinger days, there were fools who were just committing adultery a few short hours before praising the Lord’s name. Meek Mill just pointed out the obvious and put it to a familiar call-and-response format with a nice backing vamp.
The Black Church is central to the African-American community in a way no other institution is to no other community in America. As a result, there’s always going to be an impulse to protect it even from secular-minded folk or people who practice other faiths. I don’t know whether it’s a good thing for not, but the Black Church is the pre-eminent institution. If nothing else, people will protect it so long as they have no other good options. It’s just interesting to watch.
maybe its because im newly saved and come from a past history that includes working in ratchet worse than low budget hustle and flow is an upgrade type strip clubs and a family that includes several pimps, players etc but I dont have a problem with the song at all. Im not conflicted
Amen and church have been used for quite a while in the secular sense. hell at any given moment if and when westrongly agree with a statement in life on facebook or here on VSB you’ll see the co sign of church and some form of “jesus be” I dont see how this song is any different.
the beat goes hard., they rocked it. its already part of my pre game play list.
“maybe its because im newly saved and come from a past history that includes working in ratchet worse than low budget hustle and flow is an upgrade type strip clubs and a family that includes several pimps, players etc but I dont have a problem with the song at all.” Please expand. Thanks.
LOL explain what?
I worked as a bartender in a ratchet ho stroll masquerading as strip club
and I have uncles and cousins that are in real life pimps and players to say the least
I don’t know why this made me laugh but just the fact that you were so blunt about it…:-)
LOL girl, ain t no other way to say it. i realize as an adult that some aspects of my past are unique at the very least but it ws normal to me so i never developed that sense of shame or pride for that matter. its just fact
No, you’re not over thinking this….the song goes too far but like you said it is ridiculously catchy. So, even those of us that have a church background and hold churchin high regard find ourselves rocking to it and even yelling CHURCH and AMEN….for all the wrong reasons…..I find myself repenting after I sing it and saying damn why does this song have to be soooo bad but sooo good!!!! I dont even know if this song could be cleaned up to be less over the top with religious references without it losing its rythym….it honestly sounds like they were playing around and realized that their joking was dope enough to make a song.
Question: Why is it Meek’s responsibility to uphold/honor/respect other people’s beliefs?
It seems to me if you are serious about your Christian values you shouldn’t be listening to secular music anyway.
Relevant: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=E4T6ILjVs8M&feature=player_embedded
(The argument between Meek and the Pastor is annoying to listen to but, he’s says somewhere in that mess that he doesn’t believe in God. So you can’t really call him out for being a hypocrite. That bit of info just makes the song kinda ironic)
I agree with you, for the most part. I’d technically say the same thing, but would change the “shouldn’t” to “wouldn’t”.
It’s less his responsibility to uphold it, and more our (re: Christians) responsibility to live our lives in a way that would garner the respect of not using the terms so losely. Heck, we even disrespect the label of “Christians”. The first Christians didn’t name themselves. They were called that because people saw their lives model Christ, and decided it was an apropos term. Is it now (at least on a wide scale)? *Kanye shrug*
“It’s less his responsibility to uphold it, and more our (re: Christians) responsibility to live our lives in a way that would garner the respect of not using the terms so losely”.
This is my sentiment, with one exception, I think he can use these terms as loosely as he sees fit. That’s his prerogative (word to Bobby).
Question: Why is it Meek’s responsibility to uphold/honor/respect other people’s beliefs?
It seems to me if you are serious about your Christian values you shouldn’t be listening to secular music anyway.
EXACTLY!
i dont actually think its his responsibility at all. nor do i think he’d want it if it was.
Amen is a hebrew/arabic word meaning “so be it” and is commonly used in the Jewish/Islam community as an affirmation to a statement, religious or not.
Black (Christian) has it ingrained so deeply into our culture that we only believe it to hold a religious tone, though many of us it everyday.
It’s another example of words holding power and meaning not originally intended.
Amen.
Game. Set. Match.
I had thought it meant “let it be” or something to that extent. I think a lot of us, well at least myself, realize how many of the things we do conflict with what we actual believe and we try to separate the two, lest we actually acknowledge our hypocrisy.
This song isn’t the first or last time that rappers will take something religious and either flip it as slang or use it glorify a secular/sinful behavior or action. DMX, Kanye, Jay-Z, Nas, Ras Kass, etc, have all said similar or worse things.
One of my favorite songs by Capone N Noreaga is “T.O.N.Y.” and in that song Noreaga blatantly says, “Kid listen, die on the cross like a Christian/so f*** you and your weak religion…” doesn’t offend me. I have Jesus. I don’t have a religion.
And rappers have been using “church/chuuch” and “tabernacle” in their songs for the longest. I mean Snoop rolls around with Bishop Don Magic Juan! But maybe we were dull to that becauase we associate a part of Bishop Don Magic Juan with our own clergy in the black community.
At any rate, I think this song struck a nerve because the artists on it are hot at the moment, it’s catchy yet blasphemous at the same time, so it makes us feel conflicted. At the end of the day, listening to this song, dancing to it, blasting it, or even liking it isn’t going to send you anyone to hell.
Also, here’s an update:
http://necolebitchie.com/2012/07/18/meek-mill-apologizes-for-amen-on-106-and-park-pastor-ends-boycott/
“After drumming up all types of controversy and p*ssing off Christians with the release of his new song, ‘Amen‘, Meek Mill decided to be the bigger person and apologize during his latest visit to BET’s 106 and Park. Just last week, the MMG rapper went head-to-head with a Philadelphia pastor live on the radio who called the song ‘blasphemous’ and launched a boycott to keep it from getting radio play. Yesterday, while debuting the video for the controversial track Monday night, Meek appeared to be in a different place. He told co-hosts Rocsi and Terrence:
“People find all types of stuff offensive. I don’t think no preacher or no church approve of any type of rap music… because rap music, period, is a lot of bad stuff said. But at the end of the day, it’s real life. And me, I wasn’t trying to disrespect no religion or anything like that. My whole family is Christian. I have a half Christian, half Muslim family. The situation, the song, that’s what energy it felt and if anybody feel disrespected, I ain’t do it in that way. And I ain’t drop the song with bad intentions. I did it just because it was a good feeling…that’s the feeling it gave me so I said, ‘Amen, church.’ I didn’t do it with bad intentions at the end of the day.â€
which is why i figured he made it.
but gotdamn is that ninja inarticulate if those are his exact words. not that i expect him to be a rhodes scholar.
I’d like you to count on your hands how many rappers actually sound intelligent when being interviewed.
Thems gon be a lot of fingas sir.
You expected dude to be able to string words together to form a coherent sentence?
Stop.
“My whole family is Christian. I got a half Christian half Muslim family.” This is like kindergarten drop out bad.
What a lot of people don’t realize is that gospel music is a blend of blues and hymns. It was controversial in its beginning as a form of music so we have always had a thin line between church and secular music. Hell, the old spiritual songs and styles were taken from some non-christian sources. Oh and the sample is the same one Wayne used on let the beat build Eddie Kendricks’ “Day by Day”.
I can’t with songs like this, I haven’t listened to it and don’t plan to. I have read about it though and it just doesn’t sit right with me.
I use to think the term devil’s music was funny and some sort of exageration, not anymore. Music is a powerful medium and Lucifer was in charge of music before his fall. I guard my soul gates, my ears what I hear and listen to being one of them.
You hear with your ears, you listen with your soul.
I find the song a bit disturbing for 2 main reasons:
1. I am a minister. For the record, I have issues with the lyrical content of most songs these days. This song just makes my life even more difficult because instead of being able to focus on real social justice issues like education, poverty, and various forms of discrimination, I have to spend time answering questions about whether or not Meek Mill and Drake are going to hell or how many recording artists are a part of the Illuminati. I feel like there are more pressing issues out there and I really would rather not waste valuable time and energy on such distractions.
2. I’m from Philly. I really want to like Meek Mill because his story exemplifies the value of persistence. After all, he already had a name for himself here before getting signed to MMG. It’s just difficult for me to watch so many young kids out there trying to emulate him when in a lot of ways, he glorifies some of the worst things that our city has to offer–especially its African American residents. Then again, he isn’t any different from many other recording artists out there who amass major wealth for themselves by promoting ignorance. (Truth be told, the same could be said of some of my fellow ministers, but that’s another story for another time.)
dumb question time…as a minister, how much hiphop do you actually listen to?
excuse for interrupting, but it’s not a dumb question. We have a minister at church who does listen and uses it as the youth minister to show and prove the types of nonsense like YOLO and the decisions you make based on those ‘notions.
That’s my rationale as well. It’s good to hear there are others out there who feel the same way.
While I wouldn’t consider myself to be the greatest hip-hop fan, I listen to it just about everyday. I was pretty much raised on it thanks to my older cousins and I feel it is my responsibility to stay current because of the youth I work with.
le sigh…..
i want to be a rapper and have lot’s of groupie ho’s when i grow up………
that beat is dope …but i’m tired of hearing this joint…….
and drake annoys me……
that is all……..
“Is anyone else conflicted by this song?”
No. Watched the video. I really don’t care about the use of “amen” and “church” in this song.
“Does this record go to far in its sacrilege?”
I’m a pretty religious person but I don’t ever expect someone who isn’t to hold my religious beliefs sacred. So, if you don’t hold something sacred, you can’t be sacrilegious toward it. What do they care about blasphemy.
“Does it even matter?”
Really, what i’m disturbed by is the fact that the rapper:
1. Drinks until he overdoses”. Alcohol poisoning can cause permanent brain damage and even death.
2. Goes broke every time he’s at the [car] dealer. It’s a recession.
3. Shares the time that his partners vag!na1 secretions increase (12 &3 o’clock), and his resulting inability to “last” in the bedroom. Really TMI…I could have done without that information.
I did like the shoes in the beginning and the sparkly pink panther piece @ 2:48 tho.
Agreed!
It’s just a damn song. A damn beat Meek Millz heard from a producer one day, said “Yo that shyte is hot, I gotta have that”, decided to make church references since the beat has a church organ, called up Drake probably because he was in town, and decided to do the business on the track. That’s it. Nothing else. Once people start using philosophy to understand the true meaning or psychology to break down the components, then we have a problem, because those nyggas did not give a damn when they made the record. They were high, drunk, and probably getting some head.
like someone posted up thread if it wasn’t for vsb, i don’t think i would know what’s going on in the hip hop community and by the looks of it, not a whole lot. same controversy dfferent artists who may not be here in five years. didn’t listen and probably won’t listen. be careful little ears what you hear. for us, grown folk, we can, for the most part figure iut the lyrics and know what the underlying meaning is, but kids can’t and that’s who most artists are catering to. i too am a fan of trip lee, lecrae (who had a mixtape out called church clothes) etc and they realize that to reach new fans, in or out of the church, they have to open themselves up . they weren’t always in the church and that’s going to be what appeals to people. they can talk about kobe bet etc yet still glorify god. that’s all i’ve got..
Acting, sounding, and being dumb is whats cool. And folks that should know better will cosign this maddness
(extreme tirade alert)
let’s keep it one hunned-fitty here hip hop is where it is today because of the massive consumption of it by non- blacks…for them it’s a way to rebel like rock was from the 50′s -80′s. but those kids grow out of this faze. black children on the other hand see this way of life as a goal…which is destroying us from the inside out
we have a prison farming system in this country…we have private companies who are willing to take over some state’s prison systems if those state governments can guarantee a 9%-15% occupancy rate.
so lets go into this:
- systematic defunding of schools, in majority black/Hispanic areas.
-The destruction of public sector jobs and unions (which are held primarily black black and Hispanics)
-Draconian laws that railroads brothas thru the sytem for minor( if any offenses)
which in turn nullifies the right to vote, get money for college or even find a decent job.
-forthcoming laws that will make it nigh impossible for low income women to get proper family planning or abortion help thus leading to more children who’ll barley be cared for and thus provide more kindling for he growing prison fire.
- state sponsered murder or imprisonment of any eloquent and dissenting voice that captures the imagination of our youth; ie…the stokley’, huey’s, rap brown’s, malcom’s, you cut off and don’t give airplay to contemporary thinkers and artist and instead force feed them this self destructive garbage over sometimes dope beats, and bombard us with constant images of us engaging in random acts of niggerdom on the TV and big screen (to which nigga’s happily partake and support) slowly eroding or collective self esteem.
i can’t remember where i was going with this but all i know is that there is a war being waged against black and brown people and yet here we are yet again having a pseudo religious discussion about a religion forced on us to pacify and contain us.
we continue to bend over and spread-cheek-for-cock, all the while smiling and nodding our head to some ridiculous azz song
forgive me for the rant but i feel l like i’m 1 of a tiny few who knows what in the hades we’re up against. it’s really hard to cosign this shid. these so called rappers out here now make my blood boil! they don’t even realize that they’re just tools to be used to make some exec lots of money and then discarded like old tampons.
i feel like neo at the end of the 1st matrix, when he’s walking amongst the crowd and they’re all asleep and moving in slow motion…he’s the only one awake
and that’s a lonely feeling……………………..
“let’s keep it one hunned-fitty here hip hop is where it is today because of the massive consumption of it by non- blacks”
YESSSSSSSSSSS!!!!!
I used to tell anyone who would listen we got taken by MTV. We wanted soooo badly to be see ourselves on the channel that we fell asleep at the wheel when black T&A (Too Live Crew, Ice T, Wrecks N Effect) replaced white T&A (Van Halen, Poison, Ratt)
I dunno what to say about this. On one side, ~45% of hip-hop’s listeners (as measured by radio ratings, album sales, ticket sales and the like) while another ~45% are Black people, with everyone else making up the 10%. Yeah, White people might buy some coonery, but Black people control enough of the market that coonery should have its theoretical limits. Sadly, this is far from the case.
Tood,
I’m speaking strictly visual. The video sells the CD’s. If this were not the case, heavier artists (Vesta, Phyllis Hyman, Luther, etc.) would not need to worry about being visually appealing. There have only been a few artists (Heavy D, B.I.G., Fat Joe, and Pig PUN) that have made being big work for them. We’re about the same age and I know you saw the shift from Somebody’s watching me to I’m the baddest ich. Meanwhile all the white T&A went away.
I’m in agreement about disposable income.
i am with you. if i start i wont stop. i just want to thank you for this. you aren’t alone. it’s just that .. it’s the Allegory of the Cave right here.
If you don’t own ish, you don’t control ish. If you got a mortgage – you don’t own your home, you’re just a renter with pride.
What do you expect, once Kirk Franklin open the door and made a buck. You know many would follow. Curtis Blow save us please!!!!!!!!!!
The Gospel will be preached throughout the world ‘for a witness unto all nations’ and then the end will come. Meek is reaching the Hip Hop nation
Worst rap beef EVUH http://necolebitchie.com/2012/07/18/meek-mill-apologizes-for-amen-on-106-and-park-pastor-ends-boycott/
Pingback: Meek Mill’s Apology | Ministerial Life
“The vast majority of us, whether currently believers, atheists, agnostics, or what have you, began in the church and can immediately identify with that piano riff. If you’re grandmother is Baptist or Pentecostal, she likely crip-walked to it this past Sunday.â€
Panama, I thought I was going to have an aneurysm when I read that! I’m at work, so I couldn’t do an ignorant-lol like that comment warranted so I had to hold it in. And subsequently almost burst a vessel in my brain.
But back to the matter at hand, I’m a “devout†(by my friends’ standards) Christian. And I am offended by this song. But I’m also offended by Jesus Walks by Kanye, and Judas by Lady Gaga. But the difference is, I try not to talk about it too much because all publicity is good publicity and I don’t want to add to their cause by reacting to their blasphemous coonery. My silent protest? I just choose not to listen to those songs and not to frequent places that might play those songs.
Let me start by saying I listen to a lot of ignorant rap music. This is about more than black religion. It is about black culture and what is acceptable in regards to black culture for (non-black) folks to have fun with.
I believe in respect of religion, even if I do not participate in religious practices. Even if I can intellectualize why religions are useless (I can but not what I feel) I think that respect should be given to it in all its forms. So when I see videos like this (and the song really aunt that hot. Nor are the raps. In an industrial-like, dance-boom-saturated music landscape those piano notes sound like…. music) it is respect I think about. And I know nothing like this would happen if black people’s beliefs/feelings were not at danger of being offended.
If he rapped “I’m beatin Gay Ninjas in the head. AMEN!” this place and several other spots populated by the brightest light bulbs would be yelling for Meeks ignorant ass.
It’s sort of like songs about raping and killing women. Its cool when it is about black folks, Like “One Less #itch” by NWA and would not be so cool if black folks were not the group being threatened and others were. Religion is no different. Islam and Christianity are fair game primarily because of black and brown association. But Judaism is off limits…. completely. Some one mentioned T.O.N.Y by Capone and Norega (classic. love that damn song) but if he said something like “Die at the camp like a Hebrew” there would have been a problem. Think Mike Jackson and the apology he had to give for the line “Kick Me Kike me don’t you black and white me” In one of his songs. Think I’m reaching? I have two real examples you may know.
In “It’s All About The Benjamins.” Jada Kiss’ words are omitted even on unedited versions when he raps:
“You should do like we do/ Stack chips like (Hebrews omitted).
Another example is Tupac’s “Got My Mind Made Up†where Method Man raps:
“@uk you losers/ Why you fake jacks we make maneuvers/ Like (Hitler Omitted) sticking up (Jews omitted) with German (Lugers omitted).
Jewish folks – who run the music industry – aint having it. It is not getting pass their censors. They will not let their religion or culture be attacked. Period. Even Jews who do not read the Torah protect its place in Jewish culture. As black folks we – the smartest of us – intellectualized everything that is an attack on who we are. Every damn thing, and it’s kind of scary. I have not been to church since I was 5 except funerals and I have a hard time with some Black Church culture, but I will protect its right to exist and to be respected like other religions and cultures that are no more wholly holly. And I am not listening to this wack ass song again, except if its an instrumental. Amen!
The kid Meeks can rap when he wants to though!
thank you for writing this, could not have said it better. I don’t think “amen” or “church” will catch on the way other slang has, cuz Black folk is some of the most spiritual ppls ever & a lot of ppl feel like something’s a lil’ “off” with this song, nice beat & all- but um, yeah- they goin’ to hell for this one: ####CHURCH! LOL
I take back an earlier comment I made about Dake being attractive because he has an interesting looking face. In this vid, he just looks weird. And the video makes me angry. I’m secular (beer is proof that God loves us and wants us to be happy), so it isn’t even the Amen or what not. It’s the entire stupid shallow premise if the vid…or maybe PMS.
I think Meek Mill might be mildly retarded. Surely the south has something better to offer.
Um yeah, he’s from Philly soooooooo………
I believe in God and was brought up in the church. So, the song is not something I would listen to because its disrepectful to put such words in the same sentence with Amen and church. And, if you are a God-fearing person you recognize blasphemous language when you hear it. But, then again NOT all is called!
Not a fan. You’re right in that they could’ve actually done a song with an actual message and gotten where they wanted commercially. As it is, they ruined a good beat, if you ask me.
Yup blasphemy..It’s been a long time coming. I saw it on the horizon whenever I saw rappers who regulary use the most ungodly language thank god on stage for their success at awards shows. I couldn’t even get past the first minute of listening to this, it just felt all wrong.