Lists, Pop Culture, Race & Politics, Theory & Essay

The Biggest and Baddest On-Going Battles In The Black Community

Somebody's got to die!

Worse than the Hatfields and the McCoys, bloodier than the Barksdales vs the Stanfield crew battle, and possibly even stupider than the Montague vs Capulet feud, the on-going acrimony between natural haired sistas and, um, unnatural haired sistas has officially reached it’s boiling point. Lives will be lost. Livestock will be raped. And, according to Demetria Lucas, discounts will be had.

From “Does Natural Hair Get You Ahead?”

Over the weekend, I read a story about a club promoter in Atlanta who was offering discounts to women with natural hair.

According to The Grio, the promoter expressed his “utter disdain” for weaves and love for natural hair on his blog, which includes a section where readers can find natural hair blogs and products.

“Now he’s putting his money where his mouth is,” TheGrio.com reports. “By giving $10 off tickets to his Atlanta Classic Post-Game Affair on the 24th of [September] and $5-$10 discounts to his FAMU Homecoming event [this past Friday]. Discounts [were] available to women with natural hair, and they[used] the code ‘natural’ when buying tickets.”

Now, I don’t plan on writing a comprehensive post breaking down all of the issues between black women with natural hair and black women with perms. Why? Well, I just don’t feel like writing the 200,000 or words that would be necessary to do that. But, I will say that this battle is just one of the more prominent of the many wars going on within our community today — decades-long points of contention that have the power to split families, end marriages, and, in some extreme cases, bleach skin.

Here’s a few more.

Lightskinned vs Darkskinned

The granddaddy of them all, you can argue that everything on this list stems from this historically heavy topic. You can also argue that since he was the only person in recorded history to successfully man up and fight on both sides, Michael Jackson needs a f*cking holiday.

HBCU vs PWI

A battle that’ll be even more contentious in the next couple of weeks, as hundreds of universities around the country will hold their homecomings, giving HBCU alums their yearly opportunity to be condescending f*cks and annoy the ever living sh*t out of everyone around them. Btw, HBCU brethren, you can continue to try, but you’re just not going to ever succeed at making me feel bad that I didn’t do undergrad at Cheney or Prairie View A&M. I appreciate the effort, though.

Northern vs Southern Blacks

A battle which basically comes down to the fact that northern blacks assume southerners are stupid, and southern blacks assume northerners are stupid for preferring Range Rovers over Impalas.

Uber-Christian Blacks vs Everyone Else

In the most lopsided battle yet, uber-Christian blacks are kicking the asses of the secular blacks so badly that many of the uber-Christian black leaders (Eddie Long, Donnie McClurkin, etc) have switched teams to make things more even.

Anyway, people of VSB.com: Will any of these battles ever end? Also, can you think of any other battles that should have made the cut?

Lastly (and most importantly), which of these wars would you spend $59.95 to watch on PPV?

—The Champ

***If you get a minute, check out “Does He Love Me” — The Champ’s latest at Madame Noire***

Damon Young

Damon Young is the editor-in-chief of VSB. He is also a contributing editor for EBONY.com. He resides in Pittsburgh, and he really likes pancakes.

  • http://mrweethomas.wordpress.com Mr. Wee Thomas

    I would pay good money to watch the Uber-Christians versus the Uber-Ghetto.

    Then again, I”m almost afraid they’d be the same people. . .

    • http://www.testorshia.blogspot.com Tes

      Then again, I”m almost afraid they’d be the same people. . .

      You ever notice how extremely hood people always have scriptures, albeit either misspelled somehow or misinterpreted, some where tattooed on them? Or better yet, how when going through a struggle and even though they may not have been to church for years, God is never far from their minds, or atleast not far from their Twitter updates?

      • http://www.nicknotnikki.com NicknotNikki

        It’s their way of saying “God is always with me.. see how much I love him?” without actually having to do anything…..

      • Yale Gent

        They would most likely be the same people.
        Something about ignorance and extreme religion go hand in hand

    • DJ

      I would pay to see that too! Uber Christians misquoting the scripture and the Uber Ghetto trying to get crunk with them spitting out Eubonics. SMH.

    • Keisha

      bucket!

      lol!

    • http://verysmartbrothas.com The Champ

      I would pay good money to watch the Uber-Christians versus the Uber-Ghetto.

      Then again, I”m almost afraid they’d be the same people.

      tu motherf*ckin shea

      • Tentpole

        And you would be right

  • http://twitter.com/tanlite Krista

    I cannot tell you how many Lightskin VS Darkskin parties I’m invited too. Just..
    -Kicks over stuffed bear- iCant -__-

    • http://www.testorshia.blogspot.com Tes

      Hey hey hey! What’d Mr. Brrrr-Beary do to you?

    • WayUPThere

      Where do you live?

      • chanelle

        that was my same thought…..i havent heard of any of these parties in my parts of town and where does the brown skint sistas fit in? Is there paper bag testing to see who side the brown skint girls will be on? Does somebody win somethin

        • http://verysmartbrothas.com The Champ

          “where does the brown skint sistas fit in”

          as the bouncers

      • 90sgagirl

        I think some attitudes in our community about skin tone, hair texture, and religion are more so Regional!..just like certain relationships are more accepted up North/East Coast or West Coast.
        Finding certain healthy food or natural hair care products are more difficult in the South when everything is Fried, weaved up etc ( I like my Soul Food, Paula Deen Organic, Remi and Natural too)…

        • http://verysmartbrothas.com The Champ

          “I think some attitudes in our community about skin tone, hair texture, and religion are more so Regional!..just like certain relationships are more accepted up North/East Coast or West Coast”

          i agree with this. you know what’s funny? if you turn on an NFL or NBA game, you can tell where a player is from just by looking at his name. If he’s Malik or Jamal, he’s definitely from the northeast. Dontavious or D’Brickashaw — definitely the south.

        • http://dietynyota.wordpress.com/ DietyNyota

          I recently made a trip back to Texas to visit my family. I was looked at weird and even laughed at by a few people because I rock a natural (a fro). Now, I reside in small town right outside of D.C.; so almost all the sisters and brothers I see in this area have locks, a blow out, or twist. But down south, if your tracks aren’t pink, or you’re wearing the 100% human hair while ordering a 12 pcs extra crispy; you’re pretty much ‘acting white’.

          Some of my family told me I was I wasn’t ‘black’ any more because I chose eat baked salmon over some fried catfish. Its not that, its just I chose to live healthy and be more conscious over what I put in my body vs. being defined as ‘black’ by having diabetes or being morbidly obese. Even mentioning the words ‘healthy’ and soul food in one sentence to most of these people is like an oxy-moron.

          For the most part, there aren’t really any natural or holistic food stores down south, most of the hair shops cater to women who’re hair is permed, or weaves (as you’ve stated). If my plan works, my organic food store chains will change all of that.

      • 90sgagirl

        when every other southern rap artist song is somethin’ like Long Hair Yella Bone Red Bone blah blah the skin tone thing is mentioned a lot in a certain age bracket

        • Iamnotakata

          You are so right in the south light skin is definitely highly regarded over dark skin…its disgusting the behavior of it all. People here are living in a closed minded ignorant relm that the “man” wants them to be in. The idea that “white is right…or if it ain’t light it ain’t right”…If your an attractive dark skin sistah just about every compliment you get will be something to this effect “gosh your pretty to be dark skin”.

          • Deeds

            “gosh your pretty to be dark skin”

            Why o why are we still saying that?

            • http://dietynyota.wordpress.com/ DietyNyota

              I hear that all the time by black folks. Mainly by black folks, other people of various other persuasions just tell me I’m beautiful.

    • http://twitter.com/#!/XylinaChapman Lina

      You know, I’ve only heard of these parties in the blogosphere…they almost seem fantastical

      • randomeffery

        there was definitely a “light-skinned” party in Detroit a few years ago…i dunno if light-skinned girls got in free or got free drinks but it was something like that. there was the obligatory dark-skinned retort a few weeks later.

        sigh.

        • http://@stellaobot Stells.

          @Lina…Yeah, I agree these seem completely fantastical. Think there was a rumor of something of this nature going on when I was at Xavier….but I was just like say it ain’t so and kept on moving. It probably was true knowing New Orleans though. Somethings they just can’t shake.

        • Justmetheguy

          ” there was definitely a “light-skinned” party in Detroit a few years ago”

          Yeah, this doesn’t surprise me. It’s just funny how quickly ppl try to scapegoat the South when it comes to this, but anybody who’s lived in the South and the North (such as myself) knows that’s utter bullsh*t. It’s the whole country. The South just gave light-skinned chicks cool nicknames (which the rest of the country has since adopted) and the Southerners just don’t feel the need to pretend or try to be politically correct. The Northerners just like to use words like “preference” or “exotic”. It’s all the same sh*t

          • A Woman’s Eyes

            Truth!

          • The Possum Hill Kid

            @Justmethe guy

            Props on your post, man. Keep spitting that hot fire, dude.

      • Keisha

        I was thinking the same thing…do such gatherings really exist? And if so, why haven’t they seen similar demise as WACO??

        I’m in Canada…we too pu$$y to put on such events….

        • http://fourpageletter.wordpress.com keisha brown

          @keisha

          where in canada are you?

          (that felt weird to type btw.. lol)

    • http://verysmartbrothas.com Panama Jackson

      hey…do you think you could tell us how many you ‘ve been too? or at least try. cuz i have never actually seent or heard of one of those outside of that one joker in Detroit who tried to pull that off. where else does this happen. do tell. really…we need to know.

      • Sula

        Yeah. I am curious to know as well.

  • Kidsister

    I don’t think any of these battles will ever end. As time progresses, they’ll more than likely grow and manifest themselves in new and different ways.

    I’d put my bf’s last 59.95 on the line to see the light skinned vs. dark skinned war. I’d prolly even go out and buy a 3D tv for the occasion (Nothing like beady beads in 3D).

    • chanelle

      lmao…the term “beady beads” brings me back so many memories of martin

      • Kidsister

        I think I know all the episodes backwards and forwards (up until they got married)

    • http://pinchmycheekie.wordpress.com Cheekie

      YASSSSSS @ Beady Beads in 3D! We need to make this happen while the (albeit silly) 3D juggernaut is still mighty!

      • Kidsister

        Lemme get on the Bat Phone see what I can do…

    • http://verysmartbrothas.com The Champ

      “I’d put my bf’s last 59.95 on the line to see the light skinned vs. dark skinned war. I’d prolly even go out and buy a 3D tv for the occasion (Nothing like beady beads in 3D).”

      that wouldnt be much of a fight, though. the lightbrites would lose quicker than you can say “marvin’s room”

      • Kidsister

        word…lol

      • arby

        why so?
        I think it’d be a pretty good fight

      • http://verysmartbrothas.com Panama Jackson

        i think you assume all lightskint chicks know they daddies.

        *ducking tomatoes*

        but really. light skint chicks would have something to prove since most of y’all assume that the darkskint chicks are gonna be linebackers or something. i’m with arby. i think it might be a fairer fight than you think.

  • http://whoucallinabitch.com whoucallinab*tch?

    Will they end?

    Nawl. Unfortunately.

    Most of the light vs. dark, natural vs. perm debates stem from slavery & colonialism, but many of us like to pretend that “we’re over that.”

    Clearly, we aren’t (have you heard how sisters go in on Ye’s white girl phase?), and we’ll never be over it until we–as Bob said–brake the chains of mental slavery. And no, I’m not a crunchy granola chick, but some things are just the way they are.

    Other contenders for the battle? Hmm….

    Black men vs. Black women. Sadly, this is a bloodier battle than them all*

    *for some…i don’t buy into it, personally.

    • DQ

      ****And no, I’m not a crunchy granola chick****

      LOL – You have NO idea how much I’m going to be using this phrase in the future. It is SO taken and used it’s not even funny.

      • kid video

        crunchy granola chick

        Yeah, I been using that term since the early days of Baduism.

        Dont forget the black middle-class Vs. black lower-class battles.

    • http://twitter.com/kjnetic peter parker

      “Black men vs. Black women. Sadly, this is a bloodier battle than them all*”

      i was actually gonna say black female bloggers vs. black males on twitter….

      but this covers it as well.

      *shrugs*

      • http://whoucallinabitch.com whoucallinab*tch?

        Hmm, word? I’m a black female blogger who doesn’t find it 1) necessary or 2) productive to “go in” on men.

        Some people NEED to be called out (they beg for it), but that it’s ALL black men + ALL black female bloggers.

        • http://twitter.com/kjnetic peter parker

          and i’m sure folks dont feel like they’re ‘going in’ on the opposite gender..

          just “constructive criticism on how to be great” (in their eyes)

          lol

          • http://6monthsto30.wordpress.com/2011/08/05/wait-what/ chunk

            lol

          • http://www.wildcougarconfessions.com Wild Cougar

            I don’t go in. I slice, dice, slash, burn and crush. Wanna make something of it? Lol.

      • http://fourpageletter.wordpress.com keisha brown

        black female bloggers vs. black males on twitter

        i dont know about this one. black males bloggers are more predominant and um.. voice their non-facts/opinions alot more sternly and loudly. for when i as a female disagree, we can’t ever just disagree i MUST be wrong.

        • http://verysmartbrothas.com Panama Jackson

          i disagree. you wrong.

      • IET

        I knew we forgot one-blunts vs papers/bongs!

    • http://verysmartbrothas.com The Champ

      “Black men vs. Black women. Sadly, this is a bloodier battle than them all”

      ***reluctantly shaking my head***

      • Yale Gent

        I know right.

        SMH

    • Justmetheguy

      ” Black men vs. Black women. Sadly, this is a bloodier battle than them all*”

      Dammit! You beat me to it. This is the most troubling battle of them all to me. I had no idea how much the genders hated each other until I started reading different blogs and talking to older (bitter *ss) negroes of both sexes. Men and women resent the h*ll out of each other. Scary…It’s pretty d*mn refreshing to meet a chick that doesn’t hate men these days tho :)

      • http://fourpageletter.wordpress.com keisha brown

        +1

      • http://whoucallinabitch.com whoucallinab*tch?

        Come on over to le blog…we don’t hate men at all (but we will pull your coattails….outta love lol).

        http://www.whoucallinabitch.com

  • miss t-lee

    I really hate that I laughed so hard at that Michael Jackson line. So.dayum.wrong. :-) Dayum, I’m gonna start seeking out natural hair discounts now, didn’t know that was the lick. *oh, and I’m kinda partial to Caprices over Impalas. *snickers*

    • http://verysmartbrothas.com The Champ

      Caprices, huh? I guess it’s easier to throw punch cats in them

    • Corey

      Naw mane. Implala has been killing the scene since bout ’59. I don’t like the mid 80′s ones or the early 90′s ones that looked like Caprices and Luminas respectively though.

  • naturalista88

    Hmm, I don’t think any of these “battles” will ever die. I don’t know why there is even contention btw some natural hair wearers & those who wear weaves/relaxers; I couldn’t give a coin purse full of sh*ts about you puttin’ perm in your head, so don’t feel obligated to give any about me wearing my big arse fro.

    • http://www.sealightstrikers.com Melissa M

      A coin purse full of sh*ts. That’s awesome.

    • http://@stellaobot Stells.

      @naturalista88. Im telling you, truer words have never been spoken. Why would I be concerned about how you chose to keep yourself coiffed? Clearly occupied with trying to take over the world Pinky and the Brain style. Its truly one of those you do you and let me do me situations.

    • IET

      What about immigrant blacks vs traditional/americans blacks?

  • http://twitter.com/mademoiseleogus MademoiseleOgus

    maybe afro-carribean blacks vs. black americans (AA?)

    • CurlyTop

      Hmm, you forgot about African-Africans and Euro-Africans so I raise you one: Non-US Blacks v. African-Americans.

      Sad but I’ve seen this happen many times.

      • Be On It

        As a us black ( 7 generations verifiable), I have never started this battle. I’ve o ly defended myself and my “kind” once a Johnny come lately decided to start talking reckless

      • http://twitter.com/wavecapwillis Wave Cap Willis

        Yeah, African-Americans vs. the rest of the diaspora is a problem.

        Nigerians (I’m Yoruba) have not-so-nice nicknames for African-Americans, and I’m sure that they’re not the only Africans who do.

        And African-Americans (I’m also African-American) do not always show love to their people from the Continent. Sometimes, they even get violent: http://www.nytimes.com/2009/10/20/nyregion/20africans.html

        French and British Caribbean folks can have a similar dynamic vis-a-vis African-Americans to Africans’, but I essentially haven’t been witness to it.

        Then you have Latinos/Latinas of obvious African heritage who do not want to acknowledge that they have Black roots or who accentuate how mixed they are. Part of this seems attributable to how race paradigms differ from country to country, but part of it seems like some serious self-loathing.

        There are a bunch of other configurations and combinations (Euro-Africans, Blasians, etc.), but the ones mentioned in the preceding paragraphs were the ones that I know best.

        • randomeffery

          this dynamic right here really turned me off from black people from the northeast of all ethnicities.

        • Deeds

          Just curious what exactly do Nigerians think of African Americans?

          • http://twitter.com/wavecapwillis Wave Cap Willis

            Let me preface my answer with this statement: Nigerians (and most Africans) are more divisive than Sneeches on Beaches and are rarely nationalistic at home in Nigeria.

            Some Nigerians are tribalist before anything else. Some Nigerians are Christian before anything else. Some Nigerians are Muslim before anything else. Maybe it’s due to the legacy of colonialism, maybe it’s a case of people being people, maybe it’s a bit of both.

            That being stated, Nigerians in America can be seen in two camps: 1) those who see themselves as very different from (and much better than) African-Americans 2) those who see themselves as less different from African-Americans than the former group does. Older Nigerian immigrants are mostly in the first camp; Younger, US-born Nigerians generally are in the second camp.

            You’ve probably noticed that I didn’t state that the second group consisted of people who consider themselves the same as African-Americans. That’s for good reason: the people from the second camp acknowledge that they’re Black and that this country’s race struggle involves them, but they balance that with commitments to their ethnic group, their traditions, their families.

            That guy named Ugo who played for your college football team and talked in slang with the best of them? He may have dated a lot of African-American girls, but he probably married an Igbo (like himself).

            • na you

              gbam!
              +1

        • Sigma_Since 93

          Professor Wave Cap, well done Sir!

        • http://verysmartbrothas.com The Champ

          “Nigerians (I’m Yoruba) have not-so-nice nicknames for African-Americans, and I’m sure that they’re not the only Africans who do.”

          for instance? I wanna hear some of these nicknames

          • Yale Gent

            me too? Lets hear the names.

            I have some counters…. because ….. boooooy … I tell ya….

          • http://twitter.com/wavecapwillis Wave Cap Willis

            http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Akata

            Akata is Yoruba for “stray cat.”

            • Sigma_Since 93

              you gotta give us more. what does “stray cat” mean? C’mon Willis!

              • http://twitter.com/wavecapwillis Wave Cap Willis

                Hmmm. I’d rather have another Nigerian weigh in on this.

      • http://uphereoncloud9.wordpress.com Wu Young, Agent of M.E.

        A Kenyan cat that I went to college with was stopped by the Highway Patrol. He asked “what did “You People” do when the cops stopped us? In unison we retorted “Ninja, what did you do?”

        • A Woman’s Eyes

          * lmao lmao lmao *

      • Justmetheguy

        ” Hmm, you forgot about African-Africans and Euro-Africans so I raise you one: Non-US Blacks v. African-Americans.”

        Holy sh*t!!! How did I forget that one! That’s the most serious, intense, depressing, and prevalent battle to me. Anybody who’s parents or grandparents came from another country versus us. I really don’t get it. You can have your own identity without sh*ttin on mine.

        ” As a us black ( 7 generations verifiable), I have never started this battle. I’ve o ly defended myself and my “kind” once a Johnny come lately decided to start talking reckless”

        EXACTLY!!! I like the term “Johnny Come Lately” tho. I’m stealing that one lol

    • Royale W. Cheese

      Yes! West Indians vs. the lowly lazy shiftless “you don’t know how good you have it” Afro-Americans.

      This mess is so bad that every time I meet a West Indian and tell them about my profession, they are shocked (and seemingly upset) to learn I’m your every day 6 generations-deep-in-Mississippi back folk. Then they go on to insist I must ave some Caribbean roots somewhere.

      • http://ladyngo.blogspot.com Lady Ngo

        I feel you. I’m actually half and half (AA and Nigerian) and literally every single non-american person i know (black or otherwise) always attributes my “positive characteristics” to the fact that i’m not completely american. Never mind that i was born and raised in NY by my AA mother and AA stepdad (-_-)

        • http://www.twitter.com/IluminatiNYC Todd

          ROTFLMAO! I get the same thing from West Indians. Then again, African-Americans from the South look at me weird for having such an exotic background. That’s why I like NY. I can deal with people who deal with both w/o any issues.

          • sista kin

            ROFLMBO! That comment about we AA’s from the South brings back to light the Southern vs. Northern ninja stuff right there, lol! And trust me, we South Floridians know about that “exotic” stuff. If you’re a Floridian here, you’re in the minority. If you’re from the Bahamas, Haiti, Jamaica, CUBA, the Dominican Republic, you’re the majority. But the Jamaicans kill me with their attitudes (usually coming from the “born a yard, lately come abroad” ones). Maybe that’s how I ended up with a Bahamian man of Haitian descent – and he speak that Creole to me anytime, too, lol.

            • http://www.twitter.com/IluminatiNYC Todd

              C’mon! South Florida is like NY without the snow. I’m talking about the rest of the old Confederacy who thinks everyone from the West Indies is Jamaican. I’ve had to hold back and urge to cut some of my inlaws because of that.

              • sista kin

                Yeah, you’re right in some ways, but even S. Fl. got its country way- we are still Southern too. I’ll take a Chevy (gotta have a candy paint job, gold rims, sit on oversized tires, and bass rattling in the trunk) over a Range Rover anyday.

    • http://www.twitter.com/IluminatiNYC Todd

      Ah, that’s my family. Heck, my African-American mother is still a bit ticked that I resembled my West Indian grandfather. I personally despite those battles, but such is life. I’ll forever be Switzerland in that.

    • http://thelowerfrequency.com/2011/06/06/the-black-americanblack-immigrant-divide-2/ TheMostInterestingManInTheWorld

      I actually wrote a post about this on my personal blog. The thing I like to remind non-US blacks who migrate here and disparage US born blacks is, this country wasn’t always livable for people like us and your country, isn’t livable for you. We’re 13% of our population, however, where you’re from, you’re probably somewhere around 90% of your population. How you can call our lil 13% lazy and shiftless when, that 13% has made this country one of the most livable places on Earth for people that look like us when you’re 90% still can’t get it together wherever you’re from is beyond me. We ain’t lazy, we’re tired. We’re taking a nap because we been working hard. We waking up tho. Slowly but surely, we waking up.

      • http://www.styleillusions.com WIP

        That was deeper than I expected.

        • http://6monthsto30.wordpress.com/2011/08/05/wait-what/ chunk

          right?!?

      • http://6monthsto30.wordpress.com/2011/08/05/wait-what/ chunk

        “We ain’t lazy, we’re tired.”

        #POW

      • http://twitter.com/#!/NewYork2VA NY2VA

        If I wasn’t married I would propose to you, Sir.

        • http://6monthsto30.wordpress.com/2011/08/05/wait-what/ chunk

          he’s already e-engaged he just doesn’t know it yet! lmao
          although… i think she almost took back the ring a couple days ago… so things might be rocky… might be a good time to strike! lol

      • http://verysmartbrothas.com The Champ

        How you can call our lil 13% lazy and shiftless when, that 13% has made this country one of the most livable places on Earth for people that look like us when you’re 90% still can’t get it together wherever you’re from is beyond me

        #shotsfired

        • CurlyTop

          Lol, that’s what I thought at first.

          US Blacks are lucky in a way. While Africa was being colonized and re-colonized and the Caribbean and Latin America was being raped ya’ll had a chance to grow. US Big Stick policy and the American occupation of many Latin American/Carib countries is the reason why many of us left our homes to come here. Cold War era Africa was being cut up into pieces by Europe and the USSR, each wanted a slice of Africa’s richness.

          Its not that we 90% can’t get our act together, thing is we haven’t had the chance. As soon as many countries left, they gave us their debt and put into place governments that would serve THEM. The Civil Rights Movemtent does seperate the US Blacks from others and is one of the main driving forces that bring us to the US. But it is kind of unfair to see the whole picture without considering the historical aspects that force us to leave our homes.
          :)

          • http://uphereoncloud9.wordpress.com Wu Young, Agent of M.E.

            “Blacks are lucky in a way. While Africa was being colonized and re-colonized and the Caribbean and Latin America was being raped ya’ll had a chance to grow. US Big Stick policy and the American occupation of many Latin American/Carib countries is the reason why many of us left our homes to come here. Cold War era Africa was being cut up into pieces by Europe and the USSR, each wanted a slice of Africa’s richness. ”

            Our misfortunes just happened at different times. There was no luck involved. Hell, after our Haitians brethren kicked the French out Emperor Bonaparte sold Uncle Sam the Louisiana Purchase to make up for the money lost fighting the Haitian Revolution. Many places within the purchase just became new arenas for American slavery. There was never any luck involved with being brown anywhere on the planet.

            • CurlyTop

              I likes ya Wu.

            • http://moacn.wordpress.com Sir Fariku

              Truth right there, Lets all get along. I m Nigerian and I got love for all my black people.

            • Justmetheguy

              Between Wave Cap Willis and Wu Young there really isn’t anything else to say about that so-called battle (that shouldn’t even exist in the first place). Black folks are the sh*t anyway we chop it up. So let’s just squash the fake beef like Krystal’s and White Castle do lol

      • http://www.wildcougarconfessions.com Wild Cougar

        FTW!

      • http://www.twitter.com/IluminatiNYC Todd

        As someone with feet in both worlds, I can see both sides of the argument. On one hand, you have to remember that the non-US Blacks are among the best, brightest and hardest-working among their people. The lazy and the dumb don’t make it here. Naturally, the African-American community hasn’t had a filtering mechanism like that, so they represent the breadth of humanity for all its strengths and weaknesses. These non-US Blacks come to the US thinking the US is the Land of Milk and Honey, so when they see an American negro acting a fool, their dreams get shattered in a hurry, and they get heated about that.

        On the flip side, African-Americans can be some right-wing motherlovers when in comes to outsiders. It’s not a big deal on the East Coast, but get around some American Blacks that don’t deal with Blacks from other parts of the world, and you’ll hear some prejudiced foolishness. Heck, even my mom says some ignorant stuff about West Indians…and she married one. It’s not as bad as what my dad went through as a child in the 50s, but that bias is real.

        • CurlyTop

          #TeamWestIndies!!
          [Does the China wine, Dutty wine, Salsa across the dance floor, hit 'em with the Kompa, and booty claps during merengue (as I type this)]

          As a Haitian, my experience is very different from others in the West Indies. Unlike other parts of the Caribbean known for their beaches and whatnot, Haitans come from a place that is misunderstood where most people (thanks to the media) can’t find one good thing about. We come defending our culture. A culture most of the world don’t know sh*t about. We also have to live life dispelling myths about things like voodoo and AIDS because many people are just unwilling to accept that they aren’t true. Growning up, the negativity from African-Americans was a way of them differentiating themselves from us. We were always bullied so we kept to ourselves or blended in.

          I don’t look down on US-Blacks but I am proud of where I come from and understand that Haitian people and US-Blacks have a shared history. My country is a mess, not because Haitians can’t do it but because even as the 1st Black Free Nation we have never been given an oppurtunity to govern ourselves. Having been raised in the US there are things that I appreciate about African-American culture and sh*t I’ll never understand (da fcuk ya’ll like Kool-Aid for????) lol.

          But us West Indians are a mess too. I’ve seen fights break out during Caribbean parties over people respresnting their countries.

          • IET

            Haitian sak ap fete!?!

          • http://fourpageletter.wordpress.com keisha brown

            i love that you hit em ALL!!
            g’head!!

          • MsEmBee

            As a fellow Haitian, I approve this message!

          • Justmetheguy

            I like Curly Top. But watch what you say bout Kool-Aid! lol

        • Chocolit_Miss

          This African vs African-American “war” people on the blogosphere talk about is always interesting (for lack of a better word) to me.

          The thing is, I see how revered Black Americans are, the culture, lifestyle etc by Africans.

          What I will say though is, such loaded statements as the one below would not improve relations. No? #kanyeshrug

          “On one hand, you have to remember that the non-US Blacks are among the best, brightest and hardest-working among their people. The lazy and the dumb don’t make it here.”

          Kinda reminds me of expats(English and American (black and white)) and their reactions on first coming to this country. Ya, don’t believe everything you see on NatGeo.

          It should also be stated that the Africans who made it overseas aren’t the brightest or hardest-working of their people. Some sought better opportunities, as Most stated because “you’re 90% still can’t get it together wherever you’re from”. And others were fleeing for their lives.
          The rest stayed behind and fought for a better life for their kin and kith. Or made do with the little they had.

          Not denying that Africans can be xenophobic and downright disrespectfull of “otherness” or what they do not understand.

          Excuse the long-windedness, lack of proper grammar and punctuation :-)

        • Kema

          I’m like you Todd… As the daughter of a Jamaican father and American mother from SC I empathize with both sides of the coin. On my mother’s side there was cotton picking/marching while on the other there was a flight towards a better life. different struggles…

      • CNotes

        Standing O!

      • Siobhan

        amen!

      • Karen

        Wow, great comment actually.

      • Innovative21

        I have had this dialogue with my AA friends. They’ve all made the same similar claims. I guess my extreme confusion comes in when I look at myself, who was born in Chicago, grew up in MD, to my west-African parents. And then I look at them, grew up the same exact number of years, to their AA parents. But yet, I’m not tired, nor am I “napping” or even trying make it an option to take a “nap.”

        I guess my point is: Why are YOU tired? I’d understand your parents, maybe. Your grandparents, yes, most likely. But you’ve only been around for some 20/30 years. Why do YOU need a nap. What did YOU do during the Civil Rights movement? Which group of slaves have you to thank for gaining their freedom? I’m having trouble seeing my generation AA friends claim the same struggle as their forefathers, when in fact they can not. Your forefathers did the work to get you here, you’re here now, and you’re still trying to be “tired”/”napping” and claiming part of the work that you had no part in. It’s so confusing to me. Why are you tired? My friends are subject to the exact same racial an bigotted prejudices I have been, because we’re all black females, and yet, I have an incling as to WHY I’ve been able to accomplish a lil more.

        My parents NEVER allowed us to make excuses for shortcomings. You either do or you don’t. When they were growing up in poverty, they had to do or don’t, and they did. They pushed themselves to find opportunities to make it over to the US and pursue advanced degrees. I will never claim that struggle, that will never (thank goodness) be MY struggle, I can only use it as encouragement to overcome my own generational battles which will be entirely of a different nature. And when you make excuses and victimize yourself (essentially when you weren’t even the victim, bc it wasn’t your struggle to go through), then more than likely, you won’t do much. It’s not because I’m African, but because there is difference in mentality, and I tend to think that it generally resides with African folk who have migrated over here, that a good number of “US-blacks,” tend to avoid accepting/owning their own struggle separate from that of those who came before you.

        I definitely find it ignorant when Africans box American blacks into a “lazy” or “unproductive” box, because there are just as many lazy and unproductive Africans/Carribs/foreign migrants, etc (example: there is definitely a difference between the Africans/Carribs who strive to even come to the US and the ones who don’t–again, they chose to do or dont). But I find it extremely telling, when the most competent of our race (especially AAs) tend to have this victimizing mentality, whereas if you FORCE yourself to wake up from your nap already, your children will never feel it an option to take a nap in the first place.

        • Be On It

          Just out of curiosity, are all your AfAm friends children of people with advanced degrees? There is a marked difference, that spans race/ethnicity, between families where the parents had advanced degrees and families where the parents had attained less education so far as educational standards, acceptable professions, etc.

          • Innovative21

            point taken. The ones I worry about, the ones who seem to continuously press the “tired from fighting for my 40 acres” issue, they’re usually the first to graduate from College from their fam. So I def see that correlation. I try to understand how that alone is a big hurdle for them to clear bc they didn’t really get to see it done before them.

        • http://thelowerfrequency.com/2011/06/06/the-black-americanblack-immigrant-divide-2/ TheMostInterestingManInTheWorld

          That all sounds nice, but it’s bullshit tho homey. Gotta call it like I see it. It’s not about playing victim, nor is it about making excuses, it’s about accurately reading the history of black people in this country.

          We’ve been at war. Our entire time in this country, we’ve been at war. The weapons used against us change generation by generation, but the enemy has always been the same. Our great grandparents were slaves, the weapons against them being chains and whips. Our grandparents, while not slaves, grew up in the legally segregated south, terrorized by jim crow laws and the klu klux klan. They were so terrorized, they began fleeing that south to come up north where opportunities abounded. They got up north started families and when the demographics of these northern cities began to change they started red lining, and pushing discriminatory housing practices that kept us isolated in our little communities – ghettos. When the cities and surburbs began becoming too dark, they flooded them with drugs. Heroin first, then crack. Do not make light of the impact of these two epidemics on our generation and do not make light of the governments role in fueling these epidemics (Iran-Contra/Freeway Ricky/Rayful Edmund anyone).

          Like I said, always at war, weapons used against us just change generation by generation.

          So then there’s us, we’re the children of the crack generation. We’re all crack-babies in one way or another. The scars we bare and the scars our families bare are the missing mothers, the addicted mothers, the single mothers. The missing fathers, the addicted fathers or the incarcerated fathers – these are our scars. Scars you might never notice because while we generation after generation of our families were busy fighting and enduring, your parents were fighting their own struggle in their own country.

          The difference is, immigrant families like yours, ones who made it, were able to come here and get a fresh start. In doing so, they gave you the opportunity to never really know what they had to endure. You never have to see whatever they went through. All you know is that they made it and you’re here in this country and this country has opportunities that you’re happy to take advantage of.

          We’re not so lucky. We visit our dads in prison, help our mothers pay their rent, raise ourselves little brothers and sisters, teach ourselves out to be good men and women, teach ourselves what family means, all while trying to take advantage of the opportunities you’re taking advantage of. So yeah, you and I might look the same on the surface, but we’re not the same. You don’t know what I’ve been through.

          I have neither the time nor the inclination to explain myself to a man who rises and sleeps under the blanket of the very freedom that I provide, and then questions the manner in which I provide it! I would rather you just said “Thank you,” and went on your way. Otherwise, I suggest you pick up a picket sign, and stand a post. Either way, I don’t give a damn what you think I think I’m entitled to!

          • http://thelowerfrequency.com/2011/06/06/the-black-americanblack-immigrant-divide-2/ TheMostInterestingManInTheWorld

            Forgive the typo’s an ish. And this was specifically a response to the homey Innovative21 – FTR

            • http://thelowerfrequency.com/2011/06/06/the-black-americanblack-immigrant-divide-2/ TheMostInterestingManInTheWorld

              Also, upon re-reading Innovative’s comment, I realize I’m talking to a woman. Didn’t catch that at first, please excuse the profanity and aggressive tone of the response.

              • Innovative21

                I never had it read out to me like that. So, I can agree with your points. You’re right, I never had to see my parents struggle, and for that, I am very grateful. Grateful and admittingly ignorant. I see what you’re saying, and I think it is very valid.

                I will say, although, that there is a difference of how I view my opportunities due to my ignorance. And who’s to say my ignorance is a negative or a positive? Because, at the end of the day, I’m still succeeding, I’m crossing off my boxes (goals), while my friends are frustrated and disgruntled. I would hope no matter what your child has to witness, own, endure from her parents/grandparents/and soforth, you would want her to succeed. Maybe there’s something to be learned about raising our kids (mine and yours) to where, they can accept what they’ve seen/witnessed/owned, but still come out succeeding in life.

                I don’t know where one would start, but I don’t want my kid using the same excuses my girlfriends use. It’s limiting. I’ve witnessed it, they’ve constantly acknowledged the fact that my “ignorant” mentality allows me to move quicker through racial/discriminatory obstacles that they instead get caught up on. So I guess my concern now, in finally understanding there is a clear argument for the difference in mentality, and the validity of both ways of thinking, how do we make it so that our kids can acknowledge the modified “weapons” used against us today, as well as give them the power to not be subject to or caught up on these weapons?

                I guess that’s the problem we all face as black people. We have 2 different mentalities that we have to merge in order to be proud, but successful. How do we merge it? That’s the convo I’d want to have, with you, with my friends, with anyone who believes we’re all the same, and success only comes when we take what works from both sides and blend them.

                (you aint got to appologize for shyt, like I said, I spent the early years of my life in chicago, and the essence of my early double-digit years in Baltimore, so I know how to not be offended where offense wasn’t intended, I respect your views and understand the delivery)

            • Innovative21

              And after reading your post again, I realize you took it much more personally than I ever intended you to. Clearly it’s something that’s struck you (and I’m sure many) passionately, and somehow I managed to challenge the individual struggles you’ve personally witnessed and incurred. Trust me, my provacative question: “why are you tired” was my way of gaining understanding and trying to see it yet in another different light, which you then provided.

              I’m glad you took the time to, because from here, I hope to find a better solution to this issue of separation, which does nothing but make it easier for weapons to be used against not only AAs but ALL Blacks. Because even though you want to claim we’re not the same, for the people who implement such weapons, we ARE the same.

              There is power in division, and it will go to you, believe that. I’d rather spend my time on understanding where you’re coming from which would bring us together on our strengths than to harp on our differences by ignoring all that you and AAs (in general) bring to the table. So thank you for the explanation, you didn’t want to give me.

              • Innovative21

                power in division *won’t go to you

          • http://www.becauseimwrite.com muze

            yooooooo i just felt the spirit reading this comment! lol

            *applauds*

          • MissMina

            Much Respect to Most as always! Completely on point. Bonus points for the “A Few Good Men” reference!

          • http://mrweethomas.wordpress.com Mr. Wee Thomas

            I’m going to call shenanigans on your BS. I’ve seen the same stuff Innovative21 is talking about in people from similar backgrounds to me: Both parents with advanced degrees from a middle class home. My dad is Nigerian, mom, AA. In my undergrad, I decided to join the organization of african students, and ended up on the e-board. I had friends in both groups (OAS and BACC [black awareness coordinating committee).

            For reasons I never understood, there was a good amount of animosity between most groups. From my position as e-board, there was consistent animosity from AAs to african students which eventually balanced out. Let me explain further. Freshmen african students would come in with the assumption that both sides were friendly, the same – no idea really that there were two sides. By their second year, they were disabused of that notion. But incoming AAs never seemed to have to learn that lesson. Anyway, the inevitable result would be that people on both sides would just fall back on stereotypes about each other.

            You can’t believe how surprised I was to get to college and have to deal with the same crap I did in elementary school when I first moved to the states. Now, as an adult, people I interact with don’t seem to have this issue. I don’t know if it’s because when I do interact with “black” people now, they’re mostly AAs and given that I more or less look and sound American, I don’t get exposed to those biases. Perhaps things would be different were I to start hanging out with a mostly african group and start experiencing their interactions with others in Pittsburgh where someone’s perspective of me is as an African, and not AA.

            • niksmit

              I think your experience would be different. When my black student group had an airing out meeting about this subject back in undergrad, the non-US black students mentioned that their parents (or they themselves) came to the US with negative stereotypes of AAs that US media fed them. When they moved here they looked down their noses at AAs and taught (or tried to teach) their children to do the same. Trust that the ignorance and defensive, reactionary BS is bad on both sides.

        • MissMina

          Am I the only one who peeped the hypocrisy in Innovative21′s statement? You can’t tirade about lazy African Americans whom you seem to have “accomplished a little bit more than, ” then slap the disclaimer at the bottom about how you think its ignorant when Africans generalize. That’s exactly what you just did. The fact that your friends may be slackers, has absolutely nothing to do with me or my achievements as an African American female, or any of the other African Americans whom have made something of their lives. All it really says is that you are friends with people whom you feel are lazy…with friends like you, who needs enemies?

          “It’s not because I’m African, but because there is difference in mentality, and I tend to think that it generally resides with African folk who have migrated over here, that a good number of “US-blacks,” tend to avoid accepting/owning their own struggle separate from that of those who came before you.”

          So what you’re saying is that the African American struggle ended abruptly sometime around the time the Civil Rights Movement ended and is completely unrelated to any struggles we might face today? #Oh, excuse me, I was not aware of that, thank you for the enlightenment….

          My suggestion to you, is to stop letting media portrayals and/or your limited circles dictate your views on the rest of us.

          • http://mrweethomas.wordpress.com Mr. Wee Thomas

            I don’t think it dictates her view on the rest of you. I’m in her situation and everything she says resonates with me. Media portrayals have nothing to do with it. We grew up (pretty much) watching tv in the US and have been exposed to the same media environment as AAs. Are our circles limited? Sure, though I think we could argue we have wider circles than the typical AA due to our economic background and status and treatment (from time to time) as outside the AA experience.

            In any case, these are not generalities about AAs. These are specific comments and observations about a hypothetical fight between AAs and non-American black people. Perhaps you have some idea of what this hypothetical fight looks like. I think what we are presenting to you is what the real life battles have actually ended up being and what you’d be getting were you to pay your $55.95.

            • MissMina

              @ Mr. Wee Thomas

              I think the generalizing is so engrained in you, that you don’t even realize you’re doing it. I called her circle limited, because she’s basing her opinion upon her friends. This can be intelligently infered from her statements. Note I am specifically referring to her, not “All Africans.”

              Now you go on to make the statement that you can argue that “your” circle is bigger than “mine.” Oh? What was it that lead you to that conclusion. Was it the universities I attended? The jobs I’ve held? The committees I’ve presided over? The places I’ve traveled on business? No. Couldn’t be, because you don’t know me, nor my full first name. You based your assumption on your background in comparison with mine. You used the phrase “the typical AA” for goodness sake!!! Pray tell what is that? I’m looking for a definition. You sir, are generalizing. Truth hurts.

              I’m not even addressing your $55.95 statement because it makes no sense and is borderline ignorant. You know nothing about what I’ve “paid” or been through, and I’ll thank you in advance to refrain from commenting on it.

      • http://www.pinchmycheekie.wordpress.com Cheekie

        Excuse me, Most, while I hug you with so much love. Homie. I just. You the bomb. lol

      • Justmetheguy

        Yeah Most summed it all up quite thoroughly. Couldn’t have said it better myself. The nerve of some folk. I don’t even think this is shots fired. I think it’s just a reality check. I mean, if AAs started this beef then I think this would be shots fired, but this is all in self-defense, and it’s all true. Those folks can’t relate to being 13% of the population with some of the most ruthlessly ambitious and technologically (especially as far as weapons are concerned) advanced ppl in the world. Just say thank you and then take your piece of the pie, don’t get disrespectful and expect us to just sit there and take it while you say myopic, condescending, and ungrateful sh*t about us (drops mic and leaves)

        • CurlyTop

          “if AAs started this beef then I think this would be shots fired, but this is all in self-defense, and it’s all true”

          I guess it can be seen as self-defense for e’rbody then. All’s I’m trying to say is WE have insulted each other based on some nonsensical bullsh@t. We all Black when the lights go out our enemy is the same. No it isn’t the white man, its our own ignorance of the other’s culture.

        • passingthrough

          I think I’ve identified the problem. See when visas are issued they never mention that you should routinely send thank you notes and tokens of appreciation to the High Council of Representatives of All AAs. So if you could lobby USCIS to add this as a requirement for getting the magical US visa for Africans/ Caribbeans /Dominicans/Haitians/Other Diaspora Black people it might solve this particular problem.

          • Justmetheguy

            @Passingthrough- That might actually solve the problem. I’ll go prepare the memo lol

            • http://www.wildcougarconfessions.com Wild Cougar

              Sounds like an excellent idea. I will lobby Congress for a gratitude regulation.

      • Sigma_Since 93

        *stands and applauds loudly while co-workers pass by and stare*

        • Sigma_Since 93

          A better question to ask our African Brothers / Sisters is Why ain’t you come look for us!!!??? *In my jilted / scorned child voice* If the tribal history tells of poachers stealing family members, you’re sorry for not coming to look for me….I’m just sayin’

      • Mena

        This comment is simply not knowing the history of what a lot of sub-Saharan Africa has gone through and is completely arrogant and unjustified. Africa has been colonized since the beginning of time but most notably in the 1800s. Many of these countries just recently gained their independence. What was left over after their independence are ethnic clashes that this country saw for a short minute while there are still countries in Africa going through straight h3ll…in 2011!!! I understand that we, blacks in America, have gone through hard crazy times but NOTHING compares to what a lot Africans have gone through. This is probably why the ones that come here have no sympathy for our complaining. They are probably thinking to themselves, “this kid has never seen true h3ll, I left it on Tuesday to board a plane to come here.” Africans should be tired and black Americans should be handing them a pillow.

        • Sigma_Since 93

          I agree with the history many of the sub-Saharan Africa has gone through but that does not excuse having a I’m holier than you persona. My issue would be if we’re running in the same circles and we both grindin’, how can you still feel that I’m not your equal or speak of me in negative connotation?

          • Mena

            And on this, I agree with you. In a perfect world, everyone would be accepting, but in the real world, it doesn’t happen. I took issue with the commenter asking “how you can call our lil 13% lazy and shiftless when, that 13% has made this country one of the most livable places on Earth for people that look like us when you’re 90% still can’t get it together wherever you’re from is beyond me.” This comment was just too much for me to ignore.

            • Justmetheguy

              ” This is probably why the ones that come here have no sympathy for our complaining.”

              But they’re delusional if they think we’re asking for sympathy. All I’m asking is for them to shut the h*ll up about issues that aint their business. If no one asked you, that means we didn’t wanna know what you thought. I’m the first to tell Afro-Americans about how much better we have it (in 2011 at least) than so many ppl in the world. I tell them about all the opportunity we’re missing while we stay distracted by bullsh*t. Also, I can see myself doing humanitarian work in countries with more of a desperate need before helping ppl with psychological needs (such as ppl in this country) but I’m sick of ppl that aren’t from here telling us what our problems are and turning their noses up at us. The fact of the matter is that the opportunities they’re capitalizing on came from our efforts so the least they could do is shut the h*ll up and do what they came here to do. Many (maybe even most) of them do. I’m not talking to them, but too many of em miss even more opportunities by choosing arrogance and ignorance over communication, empathy, and progress. I prefer unity over divisiness anyway, but I don’t shake hands with someone who constantly slaps me in the face. I wasn’t raised that way.

              And in defense of that other comment, it is what it is. Africans are indeed the racial majority in their countries and let’s be real, they don’t have it as together as you would assume based on the arrogance and condescension many of them direct at us constantly (and usually it’s unprovoked). We gain more from joining forces than from having “who’s the best negro” competitions, but idiotic ppl wanna be divisive so I call a spade a spade.

              Ends rant and goes to find me some Welch’s Passion fruit juice :)

              • Mena

                First, please bring me back a can :-)
                Second, I see where you are coming from. Honestly, I have never experienced this from any Africans (I have worked with and managed Nigerians, Ethiopians, and Somalians and am friends with some Ethiopians and Nigerians). I think that the condescension comes from the complaining and the stereotypes that they see of black Americans. Think of it this way, if you have a rich friend that complained about how hard life is and how unfair life is, wouldn’t you look at them and think to yourself “you really don’t know the definition of unfair or hard”?

                • Sigma_Since 93

                  The challenge is as an dark skinned immigrant, white America will often give you a pass…unless your Hatian, they always seem to unfairly want to send them back. It’s understood that it took some work to get here and that you’ll work to stay and keep your nose clean. When AA’s travel to Africa, we get a pass because we don’t belong to the one tribe that’s waring with another.

                  The pass both parties receive does not allow us to have a full appreciation of the on the ground challenges.

                • MissMina

                  And herein lies the problem. Why are judgements upon African Americans being made based upon stereotypes? Is it then ok if we make judgements of Africans based on stereotypes and media images of uncivilized Shaka Zulu type images and the AIDS epidemic? No, because that is insanely ignorant. All we are asking for is the same courtesy.

                  • Mena

                    Never said it was right. Just said that it happens…on both sides.

                  • Sigma_Since 93

                    Not really following you so I rephrase my thread.

                    African’s get a pass in America when it comes to race relations because
                    a) They are not from here thus not part of the race / lazy race problem
                    b) Considered to be hard working (fairly or unfairly) It takes a considerable amount of time and money to make it across the pond. An individual is not going to squander the opportunity to be here by not working in some capacity. In addition, very few Africans come here without a few dollars in their pockets and a support network.

                    Some of the systemic problems African Americans face in working through the “system” Africans don’t have to encounter.

                    African Americans as tourists (in Africa in my example) get a pass because

                    a) You are going to bring money. Some folks will tolerate you as long as the green continues to leave your pockets.
                    b) You don’t belong to a tribe that’s being hated on / slaughtered i.e. reduced chance of getting murked.

                    An African American doesn’t have the insight to understand why are they killing each other…We’re all brothers.

                    The incomplete views / prospective can adversely impact our relations with one another.

                    • Sigma_Since 93

                      My response was to Miss Mina

                    • Mena

                      I understood where you were coming from and this is a good point. We don’t understand each other b/c it is hard to put yourself in the other person’s shoes.

                    • MissMina

                      @Sigma_93 I think you were confused because my response wasn’t directed at you, it was in response to this statement from Mena:

                      “I think that the condescension comes from the complaining and the stereotypes that they see of black Americans.”

                      I actually understood your point the first time and agree with it. We definitely get “passes” in the places where we do not reside because we are classified as “not the same as the natives.”

                      I also think buying into stereotypes further divides us as people of color, and if we hope to gain any real power in this country, it needs to stop. Period. Saying it is what it is, is a cop out. Whites are where they are because they had the good sense to UNITE (Jews, Irish, Italians, etc) and pull one another up, and collectively identify as white.

                      But as long as non-African Americans remain judgemental of African Americans, this cannot occur.

      • A Woman’s Eyes

        hmm….that’s a fascinating thought! thanks for sharing it!

      • Roxanne416

        Lest it be forgotten, many West Indian were on the front lines of the civil right movement and struggles for racial equality, Stokely Carmichael (Kwame Toure) and Harry Belafonte among the more famous ones. It should also be noted that when you speak of “you’re probably somewhere around 90% of your population” understand that the struggle for civil rights for African Americans, also overlapped with the struggle in the West Indian colonies to bring about decolonization, independence and nationhood for West Indians of all races.

    • http://fourpageletter.wordpress.com keisha brown

      interesting.

      here (toronto), when a black person asks/guesses where you are from, they want to know if its the west indies (and which island) or african country.

      when we do trini vs jamaica is a comedy show or soundclash. never actually anything ignorant. or maybe there is and i just dont see them.

      it is probably different on the east coast/maritime provinces where you have black canadians that actually have historical roots of being born here vs immigrated here (they are descendants of those who escaped slavery through underground railroad).

      i dont think we subscribe to 1 being better than the other, because when you live here, you will grow up/make friends with, date and mate people from every single island/country at some point anyways.

      *waves JA flag doe.. ;)

    • http://www.greenafrodiva.com Green Afro Diva

      right. I never understood why they separate themselves like that when their struggles are similar to ours.

  • http://www.testorshia.blogspot.com Tes

    As a person distinctly in between on all those rivalries, I can honestly say I think it’s all a moot point. I mean, I say ya’ll in religious debates while twisting my transitioning natural and lotioning my in-between brown skin. So…what’s the connundrum?

    We all are varying people; we don’t stay, most of us anyway, in one state of being and become stagnant. We are constantly, hopefully, changing and evolving and to argue about which of those states is better or worse when we’ve all been there is just…foolish.

    …also, the South wins, hands down, all day erry’day. I mean soul food? Booty bass? From the South to the North, you’re welcome ;)

    • CurlyTop

      Now when you say “South” does this include Florida?

      • http://www.testorshia.blogspot.com Tes

        The North half yes. My family affectionately refers to South Florida as Northern Cuba.

      • http://www.nicknotnikki.com NicknotNikki

        That’s the question of the year.. in ALL my north vs. south debates, Florida never gets claimed…. You woulda thought we said we were Cablinasian or somethin…

        • http://uphereoncloud9.wordpress.com Wu Young, Agent of M.E.

          I claim South Florida. Any region that produces the likes of Trick Daddy Dollars is southern.

          • Justmetheguy

            ” I claim South Florida. Any region that produces the likes of Trick Daddy Dollars is southern.”

            Thank you Wu! The folks that say South Florida ain’t Southern sound like ruh tards to me. Clearly they’ve never been to any part of South Florida except South Beach.

        • http://www.styleillusions.com WIP

          This, People never recognize Florida as the country-backwoods place it really is. One of my coworkers mentioned as you move inland from the coast the people get a little more country.

          • sista kin

            Yes, we Floridians are kinda country – ALL of Florida. Y’all know y’all native born Floridians are country. Even we S. Floridians know our families ended up down there because somebody moved from somewhere in country-behind Georgia or N. Florida, lol. That’s cool, though. I kinda being a lil bit country.

        • DQ

          It’s hard to visit Miami or South Beach and consider it “Southern” – I mean geographically it doesn’t get more Southern, culturally? Negative, y’all something else.

          • CNotes

            “I mean geographically it doesn’t get more Southern, culturally? Negative, y’all something else.”

            Yep….the culture is a bit too diluted for other southerners to recognize Florida as the “south” (in terms of culture).

            • http://uphereoncloud9.wordpress.com Wu Young, Agent of M.E.

              I never understood the cultural differences as a reason not to include South Florida. Their is no monolithic black Southern Culture. There are linking similarities but there are also great differences. Each state has its own thing and within various southern states there are differences.

              • CNotes

                You are right. But, I would argue that although there are cultural differences between the southern states, the differences are not apples to oranges (more like oranges to tangerines). One southern region’s core culture is still at least identifiable to the other’s.

    • Deeds

      Ahhh..too much soul food will kill ya.

    • http://verysmartbrothas.com The Champ

      …also, the South wins, hands down, all day erry’day. I mean soul food? Booty bass? From the South to the North, you’re welcome

      you’re right. the south definitely wins in the race to diabetes.

    • A Woman’s Eyes

      ” We all are varying people; we don’t stay, most of us anyway, in one state of being and become stagnant. We are constantly, hopefully, changing and evolving ”

      And this I am so thankful for! :)

  • Eddie_Brock!

    Damn, didn’t we settle at least four of these issues way back in 1998?

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=awpuIbEj27Y

    • http://twitter.com/wavecapwillis Wave Cap Willis

      1988 even! And, yo, Giancarlo Esposito is cool on Breaking Bad…another reason I’m looking forward to buying/renting the latest season!

      • Eddie_Brock

        Ugh! Curse these fat fingers. >:0[ I meant ’88 and yes, I too plan to order seasons 1-3 of Breaking Bad since I missed the bus on this one.

        • http://verysmartbrothas.com The Champ

          “Ugh! Curse these fat fingers”

          everything ok, man?

  • Mo-VSS

    You want another epic battle? How about this one:

    Those who care vs…..wait for it…..wait for it….

    Those who don’t give a f*ck!

    Which do you think I represent? If you guessed team “dontgiveaFk” then you, sir or ma’am have won. Please collect your DGAF t-shirt as a prize.

    • CurlyTop

      I’d like my t-shirt in an x-small please.

      • Mo-VSS

        So noted…we have black, fushia, baby blue, white, red, and money green.

        Take your pick :)

        • http://twitter.com/tylerg_thomas tgtaggie

          I’ll take mine in a money green smedium. Thanks. lol

          • DQ

            I’d take one in purple, but I just don’t give enough of a @#$% to come by and get one.

        • En Squared

          Money green in a women’s medium or unisex small thank you

        • A Woman’s Eyes

          I put my money on black with white block font across the boobs, v-neck with cap sleeves in a fitted small, please ma’am. And spell out the whole profanity, please.

    • WayUPThere

      Mo, you stay with these witty, sarcastic hits.

      I need a 2XL in black.

      • Mo-VSS

        Thanks and will do!

    • http://thisistip.wordpress.com thisistip

      I’ll take a purple in a medium baby tee

    • Deeds

      Glad someone else said it.

    • http://pinchmycheekie.wordpress.com Cheekie

      If you represent “those who don’t give a f*ck”, then you can’t actually argue any point since you have no alleged f*cks to give. ;)

      • http://www.wildcougarconfessions.com Wild Cougar

        Those who have no fcuks to give wouldn’t have enough fcuk pocket change to make a blog comment. So I call bs on anyone claiming fcuk poverty, unless someone was specifically asking you if you had any.

    • http://uphereoncloud9.wordpress.com Wu Young, Agent of M.E.

      Although it goes against my personal code to claim team anything I’ll take my DGAF t-shirt in XL with dark read avec white letters.

    • http://verysmartbrothas.com The Champ

      thank you, avatarious one.

    • http://fourpageletter.wordpress.com keisha brown

      *requests a black fitted to fit the bosom. ;)

    • Sula

      I would like a Medium. Thank you very much. :lol:

      I can’t muster the strength to care… This empire is not going to build itself. :)