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Marriage is an interesting concept to me.
*hands raised*
You, over there, with the fishnet parka.
“Oh great and wise Panama, what concept and why does it interest you so?”
I’m so glad you asked.
Well, I think that a lot of people who aren’t married have this very romanticized and, quite frankly, warped sense of what marriage is. Mind you, I’m not married so perhaps I’m wrong too.
And two wrongs don’t make it right.
Hmm…
But what is marriage really? To me, marriage—and I’m going to get a little bit too practical for some—is nothing more than really a business partnership. It’s the union of two business interests, a merger if you will, in hopes that the two businesses together will succeed further than the one alone would.
That sentence was syntaxily terrible.
Syntaxily is not a word.
Love.
Most people think that you get married because of love. Or even that marriage lasts because of love. And though I think that would be the greatest thing ever, I don’t actually think that love will see you through everything. Love gets you to the table to eat, but somebody’s got to put something on the table or everybody dies from starvation. I’d even wager that love is easy but relationships are a mother*cker. The meshing of two persons and their issues and baggage can make for a very bumpy ride. Hell, there’s a reason that so many songs allude to the fact that love alone won’t build a happy home.
By the way, I can’t think of a single song that uses that phrase.
If love could save marriages, the divorce rate would be a fraction of what it is now. Even the worst combination of individuals somehow can find love for one another. But what if love could sustain all? What if all you really needed was love? What if after 30 years of waking up to the same person, you got the same butterflies you did after the first date?
What if?
Love is great, but it’s not the most important part of any relationship. People who don’t love each other can stay together forever—because they’re committed to one another, for better or worse.
Commitment.
Commitment is the most important part of a marriage. Without commitment, the marriage can’t even exist. I can love 100 people, but I can’t be committed to them all equally and at the same time. Trust me. Have you ever tried to date, like seriously date, more than one person at a time?
I have and it sucked.
Mostly because I only really had enough energy to expend on one person because at the time, I thought she was the most deserving. Of course, I had other interests that were being met by my other jump-offs ( I was young and bored, sue me), but I was in some ridiculously irrational way committed to the thought that perhaps I could make something work with this one chick…
…at which time I’d chop off the others and make an honest woman out of that one.
Of course that never happened. I got bored. She got even more boring. I hit her with the, “I think I’m not gonna come back anymore” line.
She.Hate.Me.
D’oh well. You win some, you lose some. You live, you learn.
Love and butterflies can be fleeting. We’re all human and everybody doesn’t grow together like we’d like. We hope it happens but let’s face it, some people don’t even know how to grow and you don’t find that out until the 3rd anniversary.
So what if you could only have one or the other: love with the possibility of an ending because all good things must come to an end (fat ti**ies turn to tear drops and fat a** turns to flab…lol…how apropos) or the commitment of a person who you may have grown apart from, but you grew apart and got old together with?
If your marriage could be built on only love OR commitment, which marriage would you prefer?
-VSB P aka THE ARSONIST aka TANGLE JIG P aka P. ENSIVE aka GIIIIIIIIIIIIIIRL, HE A 3
I’ont know. What I do know is that if people thought about marriage as a business deal FIRST or SECOND, there would be fewer divorces. If you won’t start a business or merge your company with your SO, you shouldn’t marry them cus love doesn’t conquer all.
@Hostess,
“If you won’t start a business or merge your company with your SO, you shouldn’t marry them cus love doesn’t conquer all.”
I would, without a doubt, start a business with any of my ex-fiances, no doubt. They are all successful, business minded men. I just opted out of marrying them. I think that, before a person can think about the “business” aspect of marriage, there needs to be something in the gut…dare I call them butterflies?…that helps convince them that they love the other person enough to do all the hard work that a person needs to do to make a marriage work.
@iloVEGrits,
how many ex-fiances do you have?
btw, i agree with this…
“I think that, before a person can think about the “business” aspect of marriage, there needs to be something in the gut…dare I call them butterflies?…that helps convince them that they love the other person enough to do all the hard work that a person needs to do to make a marriage work.”
@The Champ,
“how many ex-fiances do you have?”
3
@iloVEGrits, My point is butterflies won’t get you to old age and matching burial plots. Of all the ppl I know who are divorced (one divorce a month for the last two years), their issues weren’t about love. They were about the business of marriage. For example, why would a person merge their financially stable company with a company run my a tyrant of a CEO who wasn’t big on fiscal responsibility?? Doesn’t make practical sense. So don’t trip five years down the line when that company you (not you per se) merged with has ruined your credit rating, lowered your stock value, and broken all the toilets in the executive bathrooms!
Aside from butterflies, it takes a commitment to stick in it. You can have the commitment without the butterflies. My nana had that with two of her three husbands–the last two. First time she married for butterflies. Next two times she married for a lifemate but she outlived them. LOL
Yeah and how many fiances have you had?
@Hostess,
Ha ha ha, my meme was married 3 times too. First one was an arranged one (she was 15) and she got the hell out. Second was for the butterflies (my granddaddy) and it didn’t work out. Third time was all about committment and it worked!
@Ms. Sula,
Third time was all about committment and it worked!
what does “worked” even mean?
@The Champ,
Well they seemed happy… or rather content. They had a routine they enjoyed. They seem pleased to be with each other…
@Hostess,
marriage as a business deal FIRST or SECOND, there would be fewer divorces.
Agreed.
@Hostess,
I could and have started a business with my husband but I can’t work with him. Lemme explain. See…he handles the business part and I’m the creative part. We don’t overlap. Our styles are completely different. The few times when the business part overlapped with the creative part to the point where I was going to have to make creative changes…hey…I just cried.
And suddenly the business side conceded.
I’m SUCH a girl.
butterflies won’t keep you warm at night. stomach flab will. i’m saying commitment.
although strictly speaking, i’m a little skeptical about the whole marriage thing. i think the only real reason i want to get married is because my mother will perish of shame if i fail her by not being married by the age of 27. and i just can’t have the woman’s blood on my hands – especially as i know she’ll haunt me for it from the grave. anyways, maybe it’s my youth. maybe it’s not having ever been in a relationship with a person i saw myself marrying. but for right now, from my little observation of marriage, it isn’t all it’s cracked up to be necessarily. and i don’t understand why people look at a woman pityingly if she’s not married after a certain age. what, people can’t choose not to get married?? these things confuse me.
i say this knowing full well i’ll probably be married 5 years from now with 2 nappy headed brats and loving it, but for today i’ll remain a little cynical about the subject, just because.
@puff,
“butterflies won’t keep you warm at night. stomach flab will. i’m saying commitment.”
I concur
@puff,
i think people look at unmarried educated people of a certain age (lets say 30) as less worthy to be taken seriously than their married counterparts, and that feeling increases exponentially until you turn 45, when you’re just regarded as an eccentric freak
btw, this…
and i just can’t have the woman’s blood on my hands – especially as i know she’ll haunt me for it from the grave.
…is creepy.
@The Champ, this: “i think people look at unmarried educated people of a certain age (lets say 30) as less worthy to be taken seriously than their married counterparts, and that feeling increases exponentially until you turn 45, when you’re just regarded as an eccentric freak”, is true, but i think it’s a bit unfair. i think i’m a very serious person, and i’m now at the point that i do want to be in a serious relationship, but i just haven’t found that person yet…oh well, guess i got 5 more years
tick…tock…tick…tock
@A Plus,
life isn’t fair and sh*t
I’d say love, because at the end of the day i think the second option is just settling for less; why would you want to live with someone you don’t like or care for FOR THE REST OF YOUR LIFE? I def wouldn’t. I’d rather love and if it didn’t work out then i tried-and you can always find companionship in some other form-hello Golden Girls lol. I’d never forgo the chance at love for a hollow arrangement of convenience; i’d much rather try and fail, because there’s always a chance i’ll win -and plus i love the golden girls so ending up like them couldnt be all bad
@PrincesMo,
“I’d never forego the chance at love for a hollow arrangement of convenience…”
*snaps*…well-spoken.
@Resident GRitS, Two Snaps, i hate mediocrity so i personally wont settle!
@JamaicanGirl,
are you new? if so, welcome and sh*t
@PrincesMo,
Word. I don’t think I’d commit in the first place to someone I didn’t feel butterflies for. The butterflies is what makes the work worth doing. (My parents are still in love.)
I prefer love. Serial monogamy is do-able if love must end…and I’d prefer the pain of lost love to the pensiveness of a relationship w/o it.
Commitment – in that sense – just means they’re committed to staying for fear of starting over. And, if we don’t love each other, I da*n sure don’t want to be your crutch.
@Resident GRitS,
“if we don’t love each other, I da*n sure don’t want to be your crutch”
this definitely sounds like a song that would be on a mary wilson album
I’ll go with commitment because I don’t believe you can commit to something unless you love (strongly like) it.
While my education allows me to understand (reflect/process) your point of view, the church girl in me can’t look at marriage as a business deal. Marriage is a holy institution between a man and a woman (no disrespect to the LGBT community.) Marriage ensures that your union is recognized by God. But that is my faith talking. I don’t really have anything negative to say about your post because it is quite logical. Arrrgh..it’s Big Bang vs. Creationism all over again.
@Ms. Hall,
“I’ll go with commitment because I don’t believe you can commit to something unless you love (strongly like) it. ”
i agree
@Ms. Hall,
“I’ll go with commitment because I don’t believe you can commit to something unless you love (strongly like) it. ”
It can be done. I think it may be easier for some than it is for others. I have an uncle that is committed to his second wife, I think just for convenience’s sake. He’s still crazy about his first wife, second wife is fully aware and they’re steady going through the motions. My worst nightmare.
@ Panama,
It seems like what you’re describing is Resignation, not Commitment.
@Ms. Hall,
shots fired
You get married because there is no one else you’d rather spend your time with. Waking up, sleeping, arguing, farting, etc. That person makes it all that more enjoyable. When I came to that realization, the ring was next. But for the sake of the post…
Sorry, I can’t participate in the question posed. Lol. I don’t think of it as a business deal because even those have outs. Like I said before, when I was in premarital counseling, we embraced the idea of marriage being a covenant. We discussed all the “outs” that society tends to take and made a covenant with each other that those outs are not applicable in our union.
@Saule Wright,
I like this comment right here.
@Saule Wright,
This hit my heart and mind at the same time…it must make sense.
@Saule Wright,
Exactly. 100% exactly. Marriage just can’t be broken down like this. It’s all or nothing as it should be. When it’s not…it doesn’t work.
@Saule Wright,
u said it exactly, marriage is a covenant, something that is sacred before God, and like so many other things, the significance and importance of marriage has been removed. its like people say their vows and believe it at the time, but times get hard and ppl forget about “for better or WORSE.” If you’re not ready for forever, ur not really ready for marriage. Marriage can be great but no one ever said it was easy, it takes a whole ot of work and effort and if ur not willing to put forth the effort, you shouldnt make a commitment that is that significant
I will say one thing about the west coast. This time difference is truly like being in another country. The fact that its not even 10pm over here and its way past midnight back home will never cease to fascinate me.
Oh and marriage sucks (tho I’m not married so you ask how can you have such strong feelings about this? well i’ve also never been to rape you in the a$$ prison (c) office space, but i know it sucks by the context clues)
hush.
@Dorian G.,
LMAO
@Dorian G.,
Oh and marriage sucks
expound and sh*t
@Dorian G.,
Marriage is EVERY.SINGLE.THING.
Definitely love with the possibility of an ending. Very few things in life are permanent. And, truth be told, in a long-term relationship, people fall in and out of love during the course of that relationship. It’s up to the couple to make sure they fall back into it. It’s hard, no doubt. But if you’re there, just punching the clock and not doing the job just because you want companionship, why bother? Anything you’re going to half a$$ do is not worth doing.
To comment on one of your points, marriage goes beyond the idea of a business deal. It’s about hard work. You can merge with someone quite easily. The key to a successful partnership (based on what I’ve seen, watching both sets of grandparents who were, literally, married till death did they part…death – not infidelity, the death of a child, job loss, home loss, serious illness …all things they battled and overcame) is busting your a$$ to make sure you are both successful: first as a couple (the key) and then as individuals.
I honestly don’t think people seriously ask themselves “is this person worth all of the hard work that I’ll have to do to make this last?”
People have, I think, such fairy tale views of marriage – they think it’s one long date filled with nonstop romance.” They like the fact that a person makes them laugh, that the sex is good, etc. – all important things – but don’t think far enough into the future to ask “what am I gonna do if one or both of us unfaithful?” or “what if he gets laid off?” or “what if we end up bankrupt?” Sure, you think that because you’ve survived a few arguments, you can make it through anything. Arguments aren’t jack compared to what a life long partnership can bring. If you can’t see yourself crawling on your stomach through the mud with someone why put yourselves and them through the heart ache?
Now, back to my point…if you think you can handle the tough times: do it. We all fall short of the glory and many won’t make it to that 10 year mark, let alone the 50+ year mark, but at least you tried, really tried, and created some great memories for yourself.
@iloVEGrits,
very insightful sh*t and sh*t
@iloVEGrits,
Well said.
If you can’t see yourself crawling on your stomach through the mud with someone why put yourselves and them through the heart ache?
That’s why one of my test for utter, ultimate commitment is “Will I be willing and able to go to the Amazing Race with this person?”… If the answer is yes, then I try. If the answer is No, then I need to get out. If the answer is “I don’t know”, then I got 99 problems and committment ain’t one.
@iloVEGrits,
Yup, yup and yup.
@iloVEGrits, [OUR GENERATION] have, I think, such fairy tale views of marriage – they think it’s one long date filled with nonstop romance.” They like the fact that a person makes them laugh, that the sex is good, etc. – all important things – but don’t think far enough into the future to ask “what am I gonna do if one or both of us unfaithful?” or “what if he gets laid off?” or “what if we end up bankrupt?” Sure, you think that because you’ve survived a few arguments”
I just had to modify your quote just to express how I feel-face it our generation wants to be married with the single persons lifestyle-BULLSHIT
My friend and his wife just had a miscarriage to me they are not just two ppl sticking around cause the sex is good. Its deeper than that. I feel women fairy tale marriage and men become suckers not wanting to come off as commitment phobes and agree to long term relationships that She thinks will end up in marriage. No. What happens is she winds up pregnant he bails and @ 30 yrs old (degreed up no less) she winds up having a baby under the same circumstance a teenager would. Again the materialism the “Life of Peaks” and No Struggle” mentality is what got us here. Too many believe marriage exempts us from struggling or having those dull moments in life. “Sexiness” and his being a “stud” in the bed and her being a “freak” is IMO the main reason some of us got in (and wont leave) the relationships (yet we demand the relationships be “official”) we in right now. In marriage there are problems that “job status”-good sex and how “good it looks” wont and never will solve. Its time we meet our true equals and BUILD together-lets stop dating and then marrying to “enhance” our “lifestyle” because if thats want we want to do then get a raise or a better job.
Wow, ain’t that some ish…for me, I’d take the love with an ending over commitment with growing apart…unless, the growing apart could blossom into friendship, then I guess that would make us cool a$$ roommates, who knew one another in a way that no other person did?
The way I interpreted the growing apart thing meant: growin apart for the worse, but hanging on b/c you didn’t want to be alone? And/or the “oh hell, we been 2gether this long I ain’t going nowhere..”
Why would anyone want to embrace misery, lock it down & have it in their face 24/7…
I’d rather bask in temporary bliss than live in unending, constant crappiness…I’m just sayin…
@maria,
“unending, constant crappiness”
this quote mirrors my feelings about the house of payne
@The Champ,
I cringed even reading the title here, in this place of solace and comfort among folks who use their brain. You have made me sad.
*sigh*
@CreoleInDC,
for a price, i can make you happy again.
@The Champ,
Not necessary. I have chocolate.
@CreoleInDC,
hmmm, i don’t care what studies have shown, aint no chocolate that can replace that other kind of happy….shoooot
@maria,
Um…I don’t need a replacement just need to keep it appropriate for me.
@The Champ,
Lol. This is one of my bf’s fav shows. (And one of my least fav). You, he and I should all have a beer some time.
@Me fail english?,
Seriously? Or is it just jokes?
@Ms. Sula,
i think he actually likes it. he’s one of those people who would never admit how awful smthg is, as long as there are black people in it. my moms the same way.
Having been married and now divorced we were committed to one another and we were miserable. That misery was far reaching and made our house just a terrible place to be. We married out of COMMITMENT to one another. I can honestly say there wasnt much love there. We respected each other and to me he seemed like a good fit and it was time for me to get married…I CAN LOOK BACK NOW AND SEE THAT MY LOGIC WAS MESSED UP!
My next relationship (not sure about the marriage thing again) will definitely be based on “love”. I still have issues with the definition of love but I understand the concept of the thing. I think once you have that “love” then the commitment thing is natural and will be there. There has to be something that comes from deep down within that makes you want to stay with this person through good and bad. I think that is the “love” that people talk about. Sadly, I have never had that love even during my ten years of marriage. Commitment kept me there, not love.
And your whole businesses ideology I can understand where you are going with that but it is much deeper than that. It sounds kind of limited and shallow when I hear it described like that…but I understood where you were going
@Yaa,
Sadly, I have never had that love even during my ten years of marriage. Commitment kept me there, not love.
this is depressing and sh*t
@Yaa,
We respected each other and to me he seemed like a good fit and it was time for me to get married..
nothing against you in particular, but i think A LOT of people feel this way, that they should be married by a certain age, and they end up marrying whomever is convenient. i have a close friend that is about to do just that. she’ll admit that she’s not “in love” with the guy, but her logic is that she’s 28 and always thought she would be married by 25, so it’s past her “time” and maybe after she gets married she’ll learn to love this guy…
@A Plus,
“it’s past her “time” and maybe after she gets married she’ll learn to love this guy”
I have a friend who did the same thing. She married her husband after dating him for 8 weeks. The first 3 weeks she didn’t even really like him but she saw qualities in him that she felt would make him a good husband. The first year of her marriage if you would have asked her if she loved her husband she would say no. She would treat him badly. However, she actually grew to love this man. They had their 1st child together and she realized that this was the “perfect” man for her. I am not saying I agree with how she handled this, I am just offering a “different” view to what your friends ending could be like.
@Yaa,
I think once you have that “love” then the commitment thing is natural and will be there.
I think that’s a misconception a lot of people make. Love doesn’t translate into automatic will for commitment. You may love somebody but not like them very much. To me, like is wayyy more important than love.
@Ms. Sula,
I think ya gotta have love, respect and unselfishness. Commitment is a natural occurrence when these are present.
@CreoleInDC,
I agree. In the case of when commitment is more likely to ensue, I am far more committed to the people that I love but dislike (various relatives, friends from way back) than I am to people I like a whole bunch but don’t really love (newer friends, mentors, etc.).
People I love, I feel, are an extension of myself. I treat their failures and successes like my own. When they smile I’m overjoyed; when they cry I can’t help but be devastated. Even if they are selfish, snotty a*holes. They’re my team.
@Me fail english?,
That right there sums it all up for me. I’m RIDICULOUSLY loyal to those I LOVE. Throw up the bat signal and I’ll be face down in the dirt dressed in black with an ax handle and a flashlight without any forms of identification and a $100 bill taped to my abs.
RIDE OR DIE.
@CreoleInDC,
See and that’s where people are different. I don’t know if I consider loyalty a quality per se… (I would have expounded but it’s long and sh*t)…
And like Me Fail said, I consider the persons I love like an extension of myself… doesn’t necessarily mean I want to be with them 24/7. I can cry with you and smile with you from afar. But I like being around people that I like.
So to me, you have to love your mate but LIKE them more for the committment to follow. Or else, it’s doomed in my opinion…
@Ms.Sula,
I agree…people are different.
@CreoleInDC,
You said it.
This question has to be harder than my JavaScripts class.
Since I can’t pick one all the way, I’m gonna eeny meeny miney mo it (just like I did my homework the other day) and say LOVE. Love wins because someone can be committed to making your life a living he!!.
@Nicki Sunshine,
This question has to be harder than my JavaScripts class.
you could have had alot more fun with this metaphor
@The Champ, Harder than a man after watching Sunny long legs galavanting in 4″ pumps?
How’s that? LOL
@Nicki Sunshine,
And so it begins. Anyone else????
@nia,
Harder than witch nipples in Michigan?
@nia,
Harder than a diamond in an icestorm?
(shouts to ricky bobby)
@Nicki Sunshine,
better, but with room for improvement
@The Champ, LOL.. I need u to come up with one (I’m still in training with the wit. )
I’ve got nothing.
*dead*
Twinny, come on, this is unacceptable.
Twinny,
At this point I’m just repeating stuff…lol
I don’t believe that you can have one without the other. But what do I know? I’m just hopeful type chick that wants to experience what my grandparents had, and what my parents had.
Nahmean?
*sigh*
@miss t-lee,
I’m with you. That is a stumper for real. I’ve been scratching my head over this.
Given the options, I know that I’ll be happier being with someone because I loved and wanted them as oppose to doing it for the sake of convinience and complacency. Love doesn’t conquer all, but in both cases, problems are bound to incur. I’d rather deal with that with someone I genuinely love and desire to be with as oppose to someone I’m just used to.
@Monk,
I’d rather deal with that with someone I genuinely love and desire to be with as oppose to someone I’m just used to.
i agree and sh*t
On another note, I wouldn’t get married if both, love and committment, were not in the equation.
@Monk,
I’m really glad to read this.
Yes, Commitment is the most vital element to holding together a marriage. Although I could not ever imagine being in a marriage void of love, commitment matters most. The fact is you just ain’t gonna have that loving feeling every single day so you need something else to hold it together. The will to stay.
And since you mentioned it, this very thing is why I can’t for the life me understand why people can’t or don’t put forth the effort to make their relationships work. We have jobs that we go to everyday and it can get really ugly at some of these establishments but we choose to stay. We sometimes get mistreated, but we stay. The benefits are not all that great sometimes but we choose to stay. But when it comes to marriage so many go in looking out already. Or jump ship at the first sign of turbulence.
Don’t get me wrong, I do not advocate staying in a bad marriage. But it seems that working at a marriage is usually pretty low on the priority list of many.
@Raqi,
I agree with this entire post.
Love is chemically induced. The dopamine, endorphin, serotonin, oxytocin, vasopressin the list goes on. My personal ideology was that love is the prelude to commitment. Where love falls shorts, commitment should take you the rest of the way.
*small story*
One day grandma and I were in the kitchen and Etta James was signing.
Etta James: ” At last, my love has come along, my lonely days or over.”
Grandma: “Yeah, but some other days start.”
@The Dutchess,
“Love is chemically induced. The dopamine, endorphin, serotonin, oxytocin, vasopressin the list goes on.”
I think what you’re describing there is infatuation.
@Nikiloveli,
Took the words outta my mouth. I don’t think those reactions are sustainable enough to account for actual love as I’ve experienced it.
@The Dutchess,
I heart your grandma.
@The Dutchess,
welcome and sh*t (i think)
I’d take commitment over love….
Love is that flame…that burns hot…then dies.
Commitment is that focused principle of taking two and making third.
It’s spiritual at it’s best….and material at it’s worst.
@KingPine,
It’s spiritual at it’s best….and material at it’s worst.
no gray and sh*t?
@The Champ,
man…it’s all gray up in there….believe me
@KingPine,
Do you have a positive view of marriage overall?
@CreoleInDC,
I’ve been talkin to ppl who’ve been married for 30,40,50 years lately…..
They pretty much say the same thing….the person you married earlier in life then is the same person later in life.
Which frankly depressed the hell outta me *and* forced me to ponder on how I got my ideas of marriage.
Like most people, I got them from watchin other marriages – which ain’t the way to do it.
I had to let go of preconceptions…..and frankly just be in the moment.
Over the long haul….i think marriage is good…. People should be gettin married sooner…not later in my opinion…just my .02
@KingPine,
Well I agree with that and don’t think many women will disagree especially when you take fertility into consideration. Men though? Yall seem to be on a whole nudder time frame. Like you think the 20′s are TRULY about getting whatever ever is in your system out when it shouldn’t even be in your dang system in the first place. A man should know from knee-high-to-a-duck stage that the ultimate goal should be to be a family man.
@CreoleInDC,
ain’t every man set to be a family man….
i just knew that was my goal…
y’all women ain’t exempt either…lol
@KingPine,
The sad part is that every man WAS set to be a family man. He has a heart and the capacity to love, the tools needed to reproduce and a brain with witch to be discerning. Yup…men and women were meant to be family. Ducking and dodging rights and wrongs is what got them to the path that it is more of the exception than the RULE.
I don’t think you can have one without the other. Honestly, can you really be committed to a person you don’t love or at least strongly like? I think you start off loving a person, and that love leads you to want to commit yourself for better, or for worse to that person. Why in the he11 would anyone want to spend the rest of their life committed to shyt just so they can say they are committed? I think that’s probably the rationale some battered wives use to justify why they won’t leave a bastard…I’m committed to my marriage. Yeah, well he’s committed to beating your azz, so I perhaps there should be some (self)love in such a situation.
But back to love…I’m gonna call on my religious and spiritual background to back up my point that you have nothing without love. Love is patient, love is kind. It does not envy, it does not boast, it is not proud. It is not rude, it is not self-seeking, it is not easily angered, it keeps no record of wrongs. Love does not delight in evil but rejoices with the truth. It always protects, always trusts, always hopes, always perseveres. Love never fails.
(1 Corinthians 13:4-8)
Now, that is real talk!! That Love is not the feeling of butterflies in your gut…in fact, the Apostle Paul doesn’t mention butterflies or any other gut feelings at all in Chapter 13. That type of love you can see and physically feel, it’s the love committments of marriage are built on. Whether youare a religious person or not, nobody can argue with that definition of love. And the beginning of Chapter 13 is also important, b/c it goes on to tell you that you have nothing, you are nothing, and most important, you GAIN nothing without love. So, I’m sorry, but you can have your definition of committment w/o love, that sounds eerily like settling for less that you’re worth. I’ll take love the way the Word defines it….
@N.I.A. fabuloussince1982….,
Wow, this was my first original post, before I finally was able to post the comment below. I swear this didn’t post the first time. Honest….
@N.I.A. fabuloussince1982….,
Why in the he11 would anyone want to spend the rest of their life committed to shyt just so they can say they are committed?
good question
To me, marriage is a a commitment to being together forever (lest thee cheat or beat). Love is important too, but I can’t say I would base a marriage off that alone because people’s idea of what love is varries greatly. For most, it’s just a fleeting moment of warm fuzzy feelings, prompted by the excitement of having someone in your life who seems to have all the bells and whistles you could ever want (until of course you discover they don’t, or maybe they do but it’s just gotten old) which of course, quickly fade.
If everyone saw love as a commitment and a decision to do well by your SO despite their flaws and annoying habits, and even when they ar not at their best (which is HARD), then commitment and Love would go hand in hand, but that’s not the way things are. Truthfully, I think the problem with marriages failing is not Love vs. commitment but that people go into it without addressing each others expectations for what marriage is really like, and then one or both parties ends up dissapointed beyond repair. Like iloVEGrits said we each have a fairly tale playing in our minds when we think about marriage, and everyone’s is different, but we fail to syc that image up with real life before getting married and end up deluded.
To answer your question though, If I could ony choose one, I personally, would prefer commitment, because stability is really important to me. With commitment, love will fade yes, but there’s more of a chance of having someone who is willing to work on rekindling those feelings each time they fade with you as opposed to leaving and looking for the next “bright flame”.
@Happy Meal,
Truthfully, I think the problem with marriages failing is not Love vs. commitment but that people go into it without addressing each others expectations for what marriage is really like, and then one or both parties ends up dissapointed beyond repair
good point and sh*t, happy meal
@The Champ,
I think folks just don’t have enough examples of good marriages to pull from. It’s like driving. You rode in the car plenty of times before you started driving so you pretty much knew to stay in your lane and whatnot as well as what most of the signs and traffic signals meant.
@CreoleInDC,
“I think folks just don’t have enough examples of good marriages to pull from.”
I agree with this.
@CreoleInDC, I think folks just don’t have enough examples of good marriages to pull from.
I definitely agree….
@CreoleInDC,
I think this, and people assuming they should or do know more about their partners than they actually do is what puts vows in the toilet. If what you love is your limited perception of a person and what you’re committed to is the idea that he’ll never piss you off in that way. Perhaps you should remain unyoked.
@Me fail english?,
Some folks just think too highly of themselves and their opinions and no one has ever broken down for them that in order to be successful in marriage you need to be UNSELFISH as it relates to all when it comes to your mate.
But it has to be reciprocated. If one is unselfish and the other is selfish…well then…
Eh-I’m going to have to go with love on this one…love never fails. That’s the Bible, that’s the word and the word is God…and He is no liar!
) Even if the union comes to an end, you’ll always love that person…you’d hate to see something bad happen to them…and you’d cry at their funeral (maybe because they still owed you money and now you’re never going to get it back or maybe because you love them…who knows). Even though there are a couple of ex-loves that I can’t stand, I still love them. Sue me.
@This Just In…Welcome to SIXBURGH!,
Even though there are a couple of ex-loves that I can’t stand, I still love them. Sue me.
love, or in love?
First time, long time…
This is such an on time post. This Friday will mark my 10 year wedding anniversary. I must say that marriage is work….and it’s also commitment, love, trust, compromise and shared values.
I agree with Raqi, that loving feeling won’t appear everyday, especially if your being real with one another. What keeps a marriage alive and thriving is the idea that we’re in this together and there is no one else in the world you want to work this hard with.
To answer the question, you need love AND commitment.
P.S. IMO, Commitment does not necessarily equal growing apart
@Numbah 5, Congrats on your upcoming anniversary.
@Numbah 5,
welcome and sh*t
Commitment.
I’m married…
For how long who knows?
Love is so complex and mean so many different things to each person… Complex
Commitment
one meaning
simple
give me commitment over love
Loyalty before Love (my brothers and I all have that tattoo’d on us)
23 yr old Diva
@Certified Diva,
Loyalty before Love
so basically pets before people?
I’m gonna go with commitment. Love makes people crazy so I’d definitley choose the option linked to sanity. Besides, you could really, really like the person your commited to without getting all psycho over them.
This is why I’ve contemplated marrying one of my close friends. He insists we should give it a shot if neither of us is married at 35. We’re not in love but we get along extremely well and have fun together (non-s3xual fun. lol.). Something about our personalities makes it almost impossible to argue all that much. Neither of us would want to hurt the other out of respect, loyalty and allegiance so it’s likley the partnership would last. If we ever get married the romantic love will be missing, but so will the arguments.
@Voiceofreason,
If we ever get married the romantic love will be missing, but so will the arguments.
this sounds like a terrible, terrible potental marriage
@The Champ,
my thoughts exactly….
@N.I.A. fabuloussince1982….,
Not really. Most marriages end up without romance AND frequent foolish arguments. Sometimes I think it’s enough to be with someone you get along with and that makes you happy minus all the intensity.
@Voiceofreason,
I don’t equate Love to romantic candelit dinners and rosepetals on satin sheets, I don’t consider those things love. Love is much deeper, and includes the respect, loyality and allegiance you mentioned. I think of these things as a part of love. Those things that actually matter. Romance is superficial…love is eternal.
@N.I.A. fabuloussince1982….,
I agree. I think I should have rephrased my statement. When I said there will be no romantic love I meant that there will be love just no mushy stuff. But I’m not saying we’re getting married; I’ve just contemplated it.
@The Champ,
Not really. Romance does not correlate with happiness and my objective in life is to be happy, not live on an emotional rollercoaster.
@The Champ,
…or not.
I think Love is often way overrated in its guarantee of a successful marriage.
@The Champ,
I agree. I’m not gonna touch this one.
@Voiceofreason, so what would you do for s3x??
@A Plus,
If we got married we’d have s3x of course. S3x doesn’t have to be romantic to be good. And isn’t that the way men prefer it? Lol!
@Voiceofreason, i agree, it definitely does not have to be romantic to be good, but it’d be weird for me to have s3x with one of my good male friends (assuming he was really one of my “friends” and not a dude that i called a “friend” because i haven’t bagged him yet)
@A Plus,
He wants to bag me. We’ve probably remained at the good friends stage because I won’t give the green light. And if we go past the good friends stage and it doesn’t work out we could end up with nothing. And that wouldn’t be good.
@Voiceofreason,
why havent you green-lighted him?
@The Champ,
I haven’t green-lighted him because if by chance a relationship with him doesn’t work a good friendship might end. He’s entirely too important for me to lose, and while I can give him 110% as a friend I can’t give him 100% in a relationship. That wouldn’t be fair to him so it’s best to keep things as they are.
@A Plus,
And my other good male friends are truly friends, not “friends.” He just happens to be the one that’s on the border.
@Voiceofreason,
“I haven’t green-lighted him because if by chance a relationship with him doesn’t work a good friendship might end.”
But are yall really “just friends” if he wants to boink you, and he’s just waiting on you to give the ok?
Whole nother post…
@Voiceofreason,
“I’m gonna go with commitment. Love makes people crazy so I’d definitley choose the option linked to sanity”
Tis true. Perhaps that’s why I chose love. I’m so much of a pragmatist that I have to go a little mad before bring someone in the circle of trust…FOR LIFE [/Dr. Claw voice]
@Me fail english?,
LOL! Are you petting a cat right now?
@Voiceofreason,
Nope. But my mechanical arm of doom is…
@Me fail english?,
I’m off to add “mechanical arm of doom” to my Amazon wish list.
—sans cat.
Even though I’m a HOPELESS romantic…love has never and will never pay the bills. If I had to choose between a situation where I love you to pieces, but I’m living like Pookie and that chick in New Jack City or a situation where financially I’m straight but I want to see you dead and then split you open and pour salt in the wounds…..pass me the money and the salt.
Love will help keep me warm at night, but how warm can we be if we’re broke and living under the Brooklyn Bridge?
@MissLady24/7,
Love will help keep me warm at night, but how warm can we be if we’re broke and living under the Brooklyn Bridge?
although i’m not seeing why you connected money and commitment, this was still an entertaining comment
@MissLady24/7,
This just made me think of two wild-haired angry trolls. I know, my imagination is special.
@MissLady24/7,
I kinda see your point. And though I wouldn’t be homeless either way, I think the love folks go hard for what they feel passionate about.
Commitment gets you the basics.
Love gets you the discretionary effort.
Commitment makes me look for jobs with benefits.
Love makes me fight tooth and nail for the corner office.
And other such colorful metaphors…
Ok, why when I saw the title of this post, I immediately thought of the Mase and Total song:
“Tell me what you want from me
Take a look at what you see
Let me know if it’s right here
Something you can have for years”
Ironically, it’s kinda fitting…
@nia, Me too. I thought it was on purpose, since PJ is a music fiend
@Kindred Smile,
I was thinking more along the lines of Dru Hill.
@Chocolate Girl Wonder,
“Tell meeee what you want…”
***step, hop, step, hop, step, hop, step hop***
@nia,
LMAO, step, hop, step, hop….heeeeeelarity
but I quietly just did that RIGHT here.
@Saule Wright,
I think we all did.
@Chocolate Girl Wonder,
See-I was thinking of the Beenie Man song “Tell Me”.
My original post….
Love is patient, love is kind. It does not envy, it does not boast, it is not proud. It is not rude, it is not self-seeking, it is not easily angered, it keeps no record of wrongs. Love does not delight in evil but rejoices with the truth. It always protects, always trusts, always hopes, always perseveres. Love never fails.
That’s real talk!!! Not once does Paul describe Love as butterflies, or any other feeling in your gut. In the preceding verses, Paul states in so many words that without love, you GAIN nothing, you are nothing. Why would anyone enter into a commited relationship like marriage without Love being the foundation on which that commitment stands? Commitment doesn’t mean anything without love. What is the purpose of commiting to someone in marriage without love…just so you can SAY you are commited? Why would anyone stay commited to garbage marriage just so they can tell their girlfriends or their homeboys that they are in a commited marriage? My husband beats me, but I’m commited to making my marriage work. My wife is unsupportive and speaks down to me/takes light of my dreams, goals, accomplishments as a husband, but I am commited to making my marriage last. That sounds like a miserable existence….
@N.I.A. fabuloussince1982…., Why would anyone stay commited to garbage marriage just so they can tell their girlfriends or their homeboys that they are in a commited marriage
EGO….being able to say that you are in a committed marriage gives the appearance of ultimate acceptance and validation. Again..EGO
@Dakota Brown,
I agree with you. And the need for societal acceptance and validation transcends marriage. People do all types of foolish, potentially physical/spiritual harm to themselves seeking validation. Marriage should not be one of those things, especially if you plan to bring children into a so-called “loveless” commited union.
@N.I.A. fabuloussince1982….,
“That sounds like a miserable existence….”
Because it is.
To truly LOVE someone is to LOVE them so much, that even if it means they can’t or shouldn’t be with you, you are good with that. Anything else is a selfish LOVE.
MARRIAGE is a form of SOCIAL SECURITY for many…
Folks do not want to grow old and/or die alone.
They don’t want people to think they are alone or lonely.
And having a man take you to the alter is a form of VALIDATION (security) for alot of women.
sorry…alter should be altar
@Dakota Brown,
Anything else is a selfish LOVE.
from the way you put it, though, unselfish love just sounds stupid, lol
@The Champ, Are you laughing at my PAIN???
Ha Ha…no seriously UNSELFISH LOVE is the only LOVE, no demands.
For me personally, love wins every time. After witnessing my dad and stepmom settle for each other, I strongly feel that a marriage of convenience is both unfulfilling and unfair. They don’t resent each other, but they practically lead separate lives, down to sleeping in separate rooms. I wouldn’t wish that on anyone, and people who willingly sign up for this sort of arrangement baffle me.
@Kindred Smile,
My mom and dad eventually moved to seperate bedrooms. But they both snored like water buffalo and would have middle of the night snore wars til both of them were awake and accusing the other of snoring too loud. Since my room at the time was across the hall I was more than happy to assist with the move.
@Lil’T, Bwhahaha @ snore wars. And I can personally attest to the fact that loud snoring is definitely a valid reason to sleep in separate housesrooms. But my dad and stepmom? No, they are more like old roommates that chat every once in a while. It’s sad, really.
Marriage is a tradition born out of the Jewish faith so is divorce.
hm I can remember there was a banner painted in the main office of my highschool. It read, ‘Diciplin a Special Kind of Love.’
I got a definition of Love that woud render your hypathetical impossible though VSB P.
Love – giving somebody what they need when they need it.
‘God is Love’
When are people going to see that you can not have the good things of God w/o acknoledging that he is the giver???
@WuDaMan,
amen
@WuDaMan,
Hey did yall see this; http://www.theroot.com/blogs/browntable/hiv-dc-worse-west-africa?gt1=38002
we need to get tested n get one partner mh mh mh
@WuDaMan,
BTW I once heard that complacency is the true oposite of love not hate.
@WuDaMan,
Ok Wu! I see you!! ***puttin money on the pulpit steps*** Preach!
This is where people mess up. They go into marriage as two. It needs to be three. Yall and God. It’s a covenant. You CAN NOT, I repeat, CAN NOT have a marriage without including God. You just can’t. People do it every day though. Spend thousands on it. But most times, it’s a farce. As Wu stated, God is love. How can you really know what real love is until you’ve experienced His love? And I’m not tryin to get all super spiritual on yall. It’s just the truth.
@nia,
“They go into marriage as two. It needs to be three.”
This is that good truth right here.
@miss t-lee,
Your math is off. Because one other point that people miss when they get married is that they have literally become one, in the spiritual sense.
In a marriage, 1 + 1= 1. Adding God would bring it to a grand total of 2.
(Or 4, depending upon your theological stance).
@Nikiloveli,
Or one. Final answere. One.
@WuDaMan,
Damn, why not 13? Haha, I make funny.
@Nikiloveli,
I see ya miss niki.
Good stuff.
L-O-V-E
All day. Every day.
Fck a commitment. I mean it’s nice and all but it’s basically a contract and contracts get broken.
@Chocolate Girl Wonder,
Fck a commitment.
**reminding self never to ask chocolate girl wonder for any favors**
@The Champ,
Why not? I’m favorable.
Love over commitment.
Commitment translates to obligation.
@Dakota Brown,
commitment is your word……word is bond.
what about connections btw marriage and society at large?
@KingPine, in respect to the connections btw marriage and society at large. Are you saying marriages are part of the building of society.
Well look at the society….jacked up and based on some of the deadly sins: greed and vanity…so
go back to marriage: Greed – Marrying for Money. Vanity – Large out of control weddings where the invitations should just read “Come Look At Me.”
Commitments translated into OBLIGATIONS begin to feel like WEIGHTS around a person’s neck. True LOVE has never ever felt like it’s a WEIGHT.
@Dakota Brown,
“Are you saying marriages are part of the building of society.”
Yes…they are….marriage->town->nation->world sort of view
I see your point about society, but it seems like a reflection of where people are in their own growth….selfless or selfish.
“Commitments translated into OBLIGATIONS begin to feel like WEIGHTS around a person’s neck. True LOVE has never ever felt like it’s a WEIGHT.”
Agreed
@Dakota Brown,
Agreed.
Marriage by definition is a commitment. It is a contract. You are contractually (and legally) obligated to your partner.
I think it was the great poet Andre 3000 who said, “Nothing is forever so what makes love the exception?”
I don’t know how that relates but it was in my head.
Anyhow, the answer to this question for me is commitment. I dealt with a dude for several years off and on. I would fall out of and then back in love with him. But I was committed to riding it out. That’s until he said, “I will kill you before I…”
Maybe I say commitment because it’s a concept I have difficulty with. It’s an issue I’d like to overcome. I’m rambling.
@Hostess,
If commitment is what you need then Love will give it to you. Love will have such an afinity for it’s butterflies that it will want you to live Abundantly even. Cuz it knows when your butterfly flies around it is contageous. (c) thread 33
@WuDaMan, If commitment is what you need then Love will give it to you.
Exactly….
@WuDaMan,
If commitment is what you need then Love will give it to you.
I don’t know if that’s necessarily true.
@Ms. Sula,
Okay. Cuz I was speaking all symbolicly. Comittment is all you need. All anybody needs is someone committed to loving them and thats it.
@WuDaMan,
now it’s thread 30
@Hostess,
“I think it was the great poet Andre 3000 who said, “Nothing is forever so what makes love the exception?”
I happen to believe the opposite, that everything lasts forever, in one form or another. So that makes it easy for me to believe in love.
However, that theory suggests that eventually, love also evolves…and doesn’t necessarily last forever in its original form.
@Nikiloveli,
Damn, this was deep. I agree and sh!t, btw
Didn’t read all the comments but you can’t have committment w/o love. I’ve heard time and time again that there’s a diff between loving someone and being ‘in love’ w/ them and I agree. The former has to be there in order for one to committ. The latter would be nice but is optional. IMO, of course.
@K.,
in your opinion, whats the difference between love and being in love?
Not understanding why one can’t have both..yeah love changes cause people change but if you have love and commitment and friendship… it’ll withstand the test of time if both people are in it to win it!!!!!!!!
@OrangeStar616,
You can and MUST have both.
@OrangeStar616,
welcome and sh*t
my bad
Commitment over love.
from a fellow VSB reader who can’t respond right now:
choosing one is just stupid. they have to coexist. its a symbiotic relationship.
Why am I getting the “You probably had some strong language in your comment” reply? The only thing I responded with was “Commitment over love”…???
@Jah,
moderation issues. welcome and sh*t, btw
I think the problem with me is that I don’t HAVE to be married. I have had a few exes that were a little thrown off by that.
Love is too conditional. I’d go with commitment.
@Reci,
“Love is too conditional.”
Then that’s not love.
“You, over there, with the fishnet parka.”
Fishnet parka? Panama, you’re a fool. And my silly self Googled it out of curiosity. So, so am I.
On to your either-or question. Well, dag nabbit, I’m not sure which one to choose. I’m not sure what would make someone fully commit without love though. I see the other way around, but not this way around. I’m confuddled.
But, what the hey, I’m gonna just go ahead and say love. Love is messy, though…
Oh, well, I have moist toilettes.
@Cheekie,
“Oh, well, I have moist toilettes.”
Please tell me that there was a typo in there.
@Nikiloveli,
Oh snap!! Yes, the typo queen has reclaimed her throne. *slaps forehead*
Correction: Moist towelettes.
U know the older i get the less im starting to know what love is.
@The Don,
welcome and sh*t
Ok..as a lady.i was just thinking about this this morning. Who says marriage should be like “forever?” really? where did people get that? I think marriage as a contractual agreement should be given 5 years. After five years, if both have added value to each others lives, you can consciously make the decision to continue the marriage by renewing your vows. If you both agree that you have not contributed value to each others lives, you can both agree without hard feelings to move on. According to Robert Green int he 48 laws of power, love and affection should never influence your strategy in anyway. It is ok to feel these emotions, but strategy requires a realist perspective. Since i presently run a business…i would not marry…simply for love, but for a deeper purpose and how can we mesh who we are to fulfill a higher purpose. If things have not changed in five years…call it quits…but i still love him…just from afar.
@Ayo Fashola,
welcome and sh*t.
oh, and isn’t this…
After five years, if both have added value to each others lives, you can consciously make the decision to continue the marriage by renewing your vows. If you both agree that you have not contributed value to each others lives, you can both agree without hard feelings to move on
…already in place?
@Ayo Fashola,
Why not just do a 5 year, live-in, engagement? If you don’t want forever, why not leave the vows out of it?
@Me fail english?,
**clapping**
@Me fail english?,
“Why not just do a 5 year, live-in, engagement? If you don’t want forever, why not leave the vows out of it?”
Name one thing you’ve successful accomplished that has been “forever”?
I bet the answer is nothing, so what makes you think when you get married, you’ll have “forever” figured out?
Also…there are tax benefits to being married…that’s why a live-in engagement would not work. And i’ve extended this to 7 years. 5 years is too short.
Commitment. Love (or something like that) soon follows. I was married for love. It ended after 8 months. Next time round, I did not marry a man, I married into a family. And I had to let go of certain expectations about romantic love. And get down to the nitty gritty of grown folks business- his mama’s sugar medicine, my uncle’s $$ campaign money to run for Member of Parliament, his … you get the picture. And somewhere in that mix, I grew to respect (sine qua non) the man. Love him? I’d cut people for him. We disabused each other of the notion that marriage gets a pass from being hard. Nothing in life’s easy- not even the new FaceBook! And semi-arranged marriages between families work. So what, it’s your people closing all escape routes and saying “She went thataway!” .
So I guess I’m saying that it just can’t be about commitment from the both of you—- it also has to be your nearest and dearest as well. None of that “to the left, to the left” back up nonsense from Auntie Jane and dem.
@Wanjiru, This is very interesting, and I personally think worthy of another post – marriage as a meshing of families.
@Kindred Smile,
And that’s why I believe arranged marriages work.
Families are usually the people you love the most and they usually have your best interests at heart…
I don’t know, I kinda like the idea…
@Wanjiru,
Nothing in life’s easy- not even the new FaceBook!
Dead!
@Ms. Sula,
What ever, ‘Life can be easy if you make it.’
I will not correct your grammar.
I will not correct your grammar.
I will not correct your grammar.
…
But yea. Um, I would choose a marriage of commitment. After all, we may not be in love with alot of people we spend the most of our time with, but as long as we’re able to communicate effectively, and we both handle our business (and enjoy each other’s company), then we’re good. After all, my first love is by far the
worstmost unmotivated person ever and it drives me crazy because I know being that I’m driven and more into Alpha Males, I wouldn’t be able to tolerate his beta male personality.@chaoticdiva,
After all, we may not be in love with alot of people we spend the most of our time with, but as long as we’re able to communicate effectively, and we both handle our business (and enjoy each other’s company), then we’re good
if this is the case, why not just be asexual?
Hey…I have Princess Syndrome which means I have to have it all and I do. AND…I’m always REALLY wary of people who are NOT married talking about what marriage is like or what they think it’s SUPPOSED to be like. I never, ever, EVER felt married or felt I understood marriage UNTIL I was married. I had no clue of how to be married because I’d never been married before. I’m married now and I’m happily married as is my husband. We have love, commitment, respect, honesty/truth AND butterflies. We argue, we fight, we love, we laugh, we share our lives with the other unselfishly which is why I have the feeling we’re going to make it because you can’t be selfish with the person you’re married to and yet, so many people make the mistake of not recognizing the importance of that.
When discussing a successful marriage most people will break down compromise for you. Compromise is basically just being unselfish when it comes to your spouse.
It’s really just quite that simple.
To us.
@CreoleInDC,
we share our lives with the other unselfishly
Now that’s the key. That business of unselfishness is the deciding factor on who makes it and who doesn’t.
@Ms. Sula,
I’d also like to point out that in countries where commitment is the main focus of marriage the women are treated as second class citizens and are regarded more of as PROPERTY.
@CreoleInDC,
Not true! We’re all 3rd class citizens after state and family! Seriously tho’ the notion of self/ proprty is a bit more nuanced… It’s the difference btn being Wanjiru (in the US) and being my dad’s daughter, then hubby’s wife, then my babies’ mama. Do my kidsown me? Not so much. It’s more I am not an island type thing…
@wanjiru,
I consider myself smarter than the average bear and yet…my decoder ring is dark currently.
@CreoleInDC,
Methinks what she’s saying is that the perception that certain cultures (like hers) view women as property is fallacious. Being a part of one of those cultures, her perception is that it’s more of an understanding that no woman belongs solely to herself…she is all of those beings (father’s daughter, husband’s wife, etc.) in one.
In other words, she drank the Kool-Aid.
@Nikiloveli,
Oh. No wonder my decoder ring was dark. HOWEVER, doesn’t sound like she drank Kool-Aid. Sounds like this is her water.
@CreoleInDC, AND Wanjiru
Touche’. I just realized that my response might have come off as a mockery of Wanjiru’s culture, and wish to correct that.
W- Your comment and my attempted summary allowed me to consider cultures like yours in a different light, and I meant no disrespect whatsoever. On the contrary, I am appreciative of the opportunity to widen my perspective. Knowledge is power.
That said, the Kool-Aid remark was due to a strange sequence of word association in my head, triggered by typing “all of those beings in one” that lead to “I’m Every Woman” and somehow rounded back to this chant (We are one with the elements, and one with ourselves…) that I heard once in college, which reminded me of a cult=Jim Jones=Kool-Aid. So I threw that part in because apparently my inner dialogue is broken today, not as commentary on your culture.
I will stop typing now. Kthanks.
@ Nickilovely… Yes. And I think I’d go as far as saying no one really belongs to themselves (in the purely traditional sense that is… Things have changed a lot I hear)… Belonging to yourself is I think something that comes from being in a place where family is optional. Usually the better option, but still optional. But for me, it’s not a burden I can offload that easily, and I think I choose to look at it as a responsibility, rather than an infringement of my right to be me.
@wanjiru,
I belong to myself but do share parts of who I am with those I love.
@CreoleInDC,
Not necessarily true.
@Ms. Sula,
)
It’s the warranties girl! It’s always the warranties. This is from the shops (selling mealie/ maize flour, hair braiding up back & they also have a guy who can bleed yr brakes-all in a 10 foot room) invariably have their ‘No refunds, no exchange’ policy written on the wall AND the receipts. And on the marriage front, there’s none of that ‘If you’re disatisfied with your purchase, bring it back to the store & we’ll gladly exchange it. No questions asked’. Rrrrrrrrrrright. That husband better be broke otherwise, try explaining why you’re bringing him back. Me? I tell the young ones, ‘tell them he wets the bed’.
(doesn’t always work tho’
I don’t think there is a fundamental difference between love and commitment.
My parent’s love me. Because of that, regardless of almost anything I do, anyway I embarrass or disappoint them, any screw ups I make in my life, trouble I get into, bad decisions I make whether they be professional, educational, financial, or relationship-wise, they will always do (what is in their minds) the best they feel to help me. This doesn’t mean they will bail me out of all problems, they may figure spending a few years in jail is the best way for me to learn, but they will always be committed to me becoming the best (whatever that is).
I feel that way about my siblings, my best friends, and a few years ago, someone with whom I’d been in a relationship.
I think what separates the marriage love from that of friends or family is the person you marry (IMHO) is one with whom you have compatible life goals – children, house, religion, profession/career. They don’t necessarily have to start out this way, but by the time you decide to marry them, most should be close. Not only are these goals compatible, but you yourself are committed (much like my parents) to seeing the other person succeed in those things (and it just so happens as they succeed, so do you).
So, there is mutual compatibility, mutual commitment for success, mutual DESIRE to help the other person achieve each other’s goals.
That is my definition of love. It is not an emotion, not really a feeling. It is the sum total of a lot of things.
Anyway, I’ll leave it at this. The topic is complex enough that I’ll probably never fully understand it myself, but I don’t see love and commitment as having to be mutually exclusive. I think a lot of problems stem from a lack of honesty and discussion about such things prior to getting married. Not only perhaps honesty with each other, but honesty with yourself.
With societal pressures, or being in a lengthy relationship, or a myriad of other factors, it can be tough to accurately decide on what things can be compromised on and what things require ending a relationship. Someone cheating on you or beating you can be clear cut. Someone not having similar visions when it comes to raising kids or living in the south hills of pittsburgh is probably tougher.
@kamakula,
this was some muthaf*ckin articulateness.
@kamakula,
*slow clap….*
You managed to express in a rather brilliant way thoughts and feelings I didn’t even know I had.
Good job!
I wonder if for love alone, the marriage would be forever, or only as long as the love lasted?
@Imperfect,
good question
@Imperfect,
Acording to the vows most people take. Marriage is as long as both of their mortal lives last.
BTW I used to love Total it was something about their sound. They was cute too. I mean in a female superhero/action stylled look. Like they could have been characters in Underworld or the matrix. Plus I like the way black and white look.
@WuDaMan,
me too, and, strangely enough, for all of those reasons
@The Champ,
Since all ya’ll been talking about Total, I’ve been revisiting all their songs today.
*current selection* “No One Else”
@miss t-lee, Right now I’m playing “Do You Think About Us”
@ Champ:
Cool. Thanks for the welcome. I’ve read this blog a few times and got hooked. You brothas are doing good work. Keep it up!
@Jah,
I love the way this post looks. Welcome n shyt!)
I always thought love and commitment go hand and hand. Why would you want to commit to someone without love and wouldn’t want to commit to to someone you were in love with? How is it possible to do one without the other and actually be happy? I do know that you can have commitment without marriage. I don’t understand why people think this isn’t possible. Marriage just makes it legit in the eyes of the court (I guess thats where that business metaphor comes in).
That’s funny…my ex and I had this conversation once or twice and totally agreed: I said that marriage is a business and he completely concurred, and he said it’s a commitment and is forever (i.e. no divorce), and I completely concurred.
But I do believe love is the foundation.
I think that’s the reason there are so many divorces- people marry for 1 of those 3, but not all.
Marrying for love won’t last forever because the business of day-to-day living, decisions, etc will get in the way.
Marrying because of what one’s SO brings to the table won’t last forever because money pays the bills, but it doesn’t provide any other benefit.
Marrying because of commitment to one another is nice, but if there’s no love, no passion- what do you truly have at the end of the day? What do you have that will make sharing your life with that person worthwhile?
I want butterflies dammit!
After the arguments and disagreements, what keeps you around? For me, it will be knowing that there’s no other man that I’d want to build with, no other man I could trust with my life, no other man to father my children, no other man I still love and want to hold when I want to slap the mess out of him because, I know at the end of the day no other man could love me better.
So I choose both love and commitment. I’m still relatively young (23), so I think have time to find a partner with whom I have both.
when I counsel young men and women about relationship matter and they start talking about marriage I pose the following questions:
**warning excessive use of the characters / and () following**
can you see this wo/man being a good mother/father to your future son(s)/daughter(s)? is she/he the type of wo/man that you would hope that they would look for when they later seek girl/boyfriends and wives/husbands? is he the type of man that you could see yourself submitting to the leadership of as the head of your household (it is Christian counseling)? is she/he someone who can pray with you and when you are not able pray FOR you?
these are the same questions that I have in my head where relationships are concerned, and until I can find someone for whom the answer would be “yes” then I will happily remain single. you commit to that which you love, and you love that which you are committed to. I don’t see how one can exist without the other.
um… I went to the experts and it seems that I was slightly wrong (slightly!). See I asked my mum (married close to 40 years) and my aunt (almost 40). My mum reckons that the question answers itself as marriage=commitment (i.e. you’re telling your peeps that you are committed till death does you part) and while “love” (paraphrased because “love” don’t translate when you’re talking in the vernacular) is something that you recognize as being a think that will grow every day/ year when you zero in on the man. She says that it starts with an appreciation that this is a man that you can commit to- and that you like enough to commit to.
Makes sense, as when you hear of the traits that she liked about the old man- it’s those that never really go away even after the butterflies have gone. She liked that he was “steady and hardworking” and that when she visited his family, “they spoke nicely (politely?) to each other” and she extrapolated from these traits and saw ergo, he’d be a good husband AND father AND brother AND son-in-law.
Though from what my dad used to say, it was the guitar playing, and that he was a handsome man before his kids gave him all the gray hair that he had.
I’m married and I agree and disagree. It can’t be business first, unless you are into arranged marriages. Compatibility (butterflies, guts, whatever you want to call it) is first. That gets you started, THEN commitment keeps you going. Frankly, I believe movies and stuff do people a disservice in the portrayal of love, relationships and marriage. Not to say my life isn’t filled with sweet moments BUT the truth is…fireworks don’t go off over the water each time you kiss and all that stupid shit. When people get passed that and accept that it IS work, they realize it’s better than a movie could ever be anyway.
I’d want my relationship to be based on commitment… but then, I’m commitment-phobic. Ugh.