Takeaways From Yesterday’s “Rape Responsibility” Discussion

1. I made the decision to write full-time a little over a year ago. While the transition hasn’t always been smooth, I maintain that it’s the best choice I ever made. The successes we’ve had at VSB collectively and I’ve had personally have been documented, and 2012 is shaping up to be even better.

I’m bringing this up because all of this success has undoubtedly made my already large head even bigger. I’ve become more secure in my voice and my ability to articulate, amuse, and entertain, but with that came an arrogance that leads to days like yesterday.

I think I can (and should be able to) tackle any topic, so when I was browsing through different websites Monday afternoon, looking for something to write for Tuesday, I came across Zerlina’s article about rape, read the comments, and naturally thought “I think I’ll offer a (slightly) dissenting viewpoint. I might upset a couple people, but it’ll be no big deal. They (our readership) know and love me already, so the people who do happen to get upset will forget all about it by 3pm Tuesday afternoon.”

I was wrong.

While I think this conversation needs to be had, I’m not well-versed enough with this topic to even take the chance to articulate the types of thoughts I did yesterday. And, even if I was a rape issues maven, this isn’t the type of topic that someone like me — a snarky, sarcastic, (somewhat) insensitive, and (too) pragmatic asshole — should attempt to tackle by myself.

Perhaps I may get there eventually, but I’m not there yet, and it took a day like yesterday to drive that point home.

Also, it was a poorly crafted post. The title was unnecessarily incendiary and sensationalistic, the premise was drawn from a flawed inference (more on that later), the examples I used to make my point were lazy, insulting, and (very) hurtful, the conclusion was completely tone deaf, and the post-post 11 am edit was an abject fail.

Plus, as Panama stated in a conversation we had yesterday, because of the nature of VSB — we occasionally get “serious,” but most of our topics are meant to be light-hearted and entertaining. also, we usually touch on one topic one day and keep it moving. — this isn’t really the place for the type of discussion this conversation warranted. Honestly, if yesterday’s post didn’t blow up the way it did, today’s topic would have either been a (super-late) NBA preview or something about first date etiquette.

For instance, a glance at the screen while writing this tells me it’s 2:54 pm. In three hours, I’m meeting a couple people to create another “Sh*t___Says” YouTube video. And, lets just say that people who plan to spend entire evenings filming videos titled “Shit Diva Dudes Say To Bougie Black Girls” probably shouldn’t post potentially explosive pieces about rape two days before this silly-ass video debuts.

As much as I spoke about common sense Tuesday, the decision to post a controversial opinion about women and rape didn’t exhibit very much of it.

I do not apologize for possessing the feeling I was attempting to convey. But, I do apologize for being too arrogant to realize how wrong it was for me to attempt to convey it here yesterday. It’s an issue too touchy, too sensitive, too nuanced, and too volatile for a person without a master understanding of the topic to address on a platform as big as VSB’s.

2. Judging from what Google Analytics currently says (it’s 3:08 pm now, btw), yesterday’s post will probably generate 10 to 12,000 unique visitors. A year ago, this would have been one of our highest traffic days ever. Today, it’s maybe the 6th or 7th highest day in the last two weeks.

Both Panama and I (and Liz for that matter) have had some difficulties dealing with this increase in readership and reach; some relatively easy to handle (increased server costs, needing to hire interns, etc), and some that’ll take a bit more brainpower to solve.

One of these “difficult” problems is the fact that increased readership means that there’s a greater chance that someone not at all familiar with you will find your link on Facebook or Twitter, and it’s been a struggle trying to straddle the line between “opinionated and editor-less blogger who can say whatever the hell he wants with no repercussions” and “person who may need to be more cognizant of his words because he’s not just speaking around friends anymore

With this growth comes an increase in responsibility, and I know I seriously let some people down yesterday. I can’t promise that it won’t happen again. You can’t be successful at this without taking some chances and (occasionally) upsetting people. But, going forward, I do promise to be more conscious of the effect my words can have on people.

With all that being said, although I was genuinely surprised with (and hurt by) the reaction in the comments (and on Twitter), I really don’t want anyone to think that today’s piece and yesterday’s mid-morning edit are me back-tracking or trying to elicit any sympathy. Yes, I feel bad that there are some people who’ve never heard of VSB before and are going to use yesterday as their first (and, likely, only) impression of us, but this is what I signed up for when we decided to build this blog, and if I accept the praise, I have to handle the criticism too. I said it, signed my (real) name to it, and whoever doesn’t like it has a right to call me on it.

3. After re-reading Zerlina’s post for the umpteenth time yesterday, I realized that I definitely reached for the inferences I made. Because I followed the discussion about it on Twitter before actually reading it, I read it with an agenda, looking for a few things that weren’t actually there. I know how shitty it feels to have people make conclusions about something you’ve written before actually reading it, and I apologize to Zerlina for doing that to her.

4. You’ve probably noticed that I haven’t actually said anything about yesterday’s content yet, and I don’t plan to. That ship has sailed. I will say though, that as hard as this may be to believe, I actually did appreciate yesterday’s discussion. Perhaps the best part of VSB is the Very Smart readers, followers, and fans we tend to have, and yesterday was one of those days where I could sit back, read, and learn from them.

Among these things I learned was that there is a major disconnect among some very smart people about issues such as consent and rape/crime prevention and the definitions and proper applications of terms like accountability and responsibility. I don’t know if anything was “solved” yesterday (or if they ever will be), but I don’t think I was the only one surprised by how far apart many of us are when these topics are brought up.

I’m sure yesterday cost us some fans and dissuaded people who would have been fans in the future. That’s unfortunate. For those who did come back today, thank you, and lets continue to entertain (and educate) each other. My eyes and ears feel a little more open today, and I hope yours do too.

—Damon Young (aka “The Champ”) 

  • Eric McD

    I didn’t think you could do it but you did. An unapologetic apology. Well played sir. Well played.

    • http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=M5FR1LGsT7E TheAnti-Cool

      Only Champ…

    • http://lizburr.com Liz

      an asshole move, if you will. smh.

      • me

        Liz! WTF? Please explain?

        • http://lizburr.com Liz

          I have none. It is what it is.

          • Sandpaper

            I’m really liking this side of you, Miss Burr.

      • hehe

        Very much so.

    • dre

      idk bout yall but i respect that. I rather somebody have some balls and lay on the line, then act like a politician and throw rocks and then hide their hands afterwards.

      • http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=M5FR1LGsT7E TheAnti-Cool

        I know I would have felt some kind of way if Champ had completely backtracked from yesterday.

        • Justmetheguy

          +2 I’m a bigger fan now that he didn’t apologize. This post was awesome. It would’ve been an *sshole move if he just moved on to the next topic like it didn’t happen and left sh*t all awkward lol, but he didn’t. He stood his ground like a man while still addressing the issue(s) and providing intelligent commentary. Well played indeed sir. And no I don’t think we came any closer to bridging that gap/disconnect. You’re right though, this just isn’t the platform. I think a movie with multiple realistic scenarios that draw attention to all the nuances and understandable grey areas could make ALL of our points a lot better than we could by typing on some keyboard. All of the points made were relevant imo, even if they ruffled a lot of people’s feathers and opened up some traumatic wounds

          • Sandpaper

            +3

            Apologize…..no.

          • hmm

            “He stood his ground like a man.”

            Hm. I think this is exactly the type of phrase more rape education could address. Men don’t back down or admit when they’re wrong, huh?

            God forbid

      • Shay K

        Definitely.

    • Royale W. Cheese

      I don’t understand how this is an unapologetic apology.

      “As much as I spoke about common sense Tuesday, the decision to post a controversial opinion about women and rape didn’t exhibit very much of it.”

      An apology isn’t about changing your views, it’s about admitting one’s role in a fight/ confrontation. To me, Champ’s apology for basically doing his job (blogging) is very generous. On top of that he admitted to being a hypocrite and to being arrogant.

      I dunno, maybe I’m just missing something.

      • Justmetheguy

        @ Royale Cheese- I agree for the most part, but an apology doesn’t make the statement that “I’m flawed, I don’t always use the best judgement.” It flat out states “I was wrong, I’m asking for your forgiveness.” I’m very relieved that Champ did the former and not the latter. That would’ve been terrible imo. Again I applaud him for not running from the discomfort while also not apologizing for having an opinion

        • http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=M5FR1LGsT7E TheAnti-Cool

          As do I.

        • Royale W. Cheese

          Thanks for clearing that up. Wow. I’m thinking, then, that I’ve never apologized a day in my life…

          But…wouldn’t changing an opinion due to backlash constitute “regret,” not apology?

          • Yoles

            that’s what i thought as well, i like this apology… i’m good… apology and regret are too different animals

      • Bey

        I can agree that what Champ did was very generous. I PERSONALLY (YES I am a female, YES I have been raped… NO it was not “brutal”, but rape all the same) do not find ANYTHING wrong with what Champ said! I know that things get emotional when you are a victim. I also acknowledge that in being a victim certain things are hard to hear; HOWEVER, I am not a person who believes in being a victim. I do not walk around feeling sorry for myself, nor do I expect others to do the same. Can ALL rapes be prevented?? HELL NO, but what kind of person believes that there is NOTHING a woman can do to prevent a rape?!?!? In my eyes that is either stupidity or emotion talking, and I’ll chose to believe that it’s the latter. I think a lot of the females posting yesterday should seek counseling, and I say that with sincerity. They are still hurt, and it seems as they look at all men and see the monster who hurt them. And THAT IS NOT FAIR! One gentleman said this before (and I totally agree) it’s as if [some of] the women weren’t even listening! It was “I was raped… so I know everything about rape… I had to experience this, you didn’t, so you either agree with what I say (because NOT doing so means that you are not allowing me to play the victim that I want to be) or you shut up because your mind is sick, demented, and dirty. Seriously??? Why do I say that it is playing the victim? I’m glad you asked. It’s playing the victim because you are failing to realize the role A WOMAN (not necessarily YOU) could play in making herself a target. NO that does not make it her FAULT, but I we can all agree that there are VERY FEW situations (by comparison) in which a HUMAN BEING (man or woman) can find themselves in danger, and there was ABSOLUTELY NOTHING they could HAVE done to decrease the chances (NOT PREVENT FROM HAPPENING… DECREASE THE LIKELIHOOD) of them getting hurt. And I know what I say will be contorted, and people will forget the fact that I say “very few situations” and bring up their situation that they could not prevent and so on and so forth. smdh This is ridiculous! I was up until 1 this morning reading EVERY. LAST. COMMENT. that was posted, and it just baffles me how such INTELLIGENT and ARTICULATE women can just talk and talk and talk….and then literally close their ears (eyes) and hear (read) only what it is they want to hear (read) then pull that ONE PART out… and over analyze it. I thought this was a place for intelligent dialogue… and that cannot happen if one will not GOD DAMN LISTEN!

        Forgive my typo’s, I am at work and I have ish to do… I just wanted to get this off my chest and I just couldn’t last night. B/c I wanted to say some things I probably shouldn’t have. But the things that went on on this post yesterday… NOT COOL. And the majority (NOT ALL… watch how this gets taken out of context) of the not- coolness (yeah I said it) was NOT on the part of the men. This situation really helped me to open my eyes to what men say about women and how we operate. And I’m not just talking about the subject matter…. just the fact that it was SUPPOSED TO BE A(N EDUCATED) DISCUSSION!!! *slams laptop closed*

        • child of ochun

          Sounds like you are the one who could benefit from counseling. As a survivor, you should be ashamed of yourself.

          • simpliselegance

            Really though? I read both yesterday and today’s post and while I’m not gonna go into how I feel about it, I will say I was REALLY disheartened by some of the comments. Telling someone they should be ashamed of their self because their opinion differs from yours? I guess…..

        • http://gravatar.com/dmcmillian72 dmcmillian72

          Thank you, Bey. You were good to read through all of the comments from the previous post. I had to stop reading halfway through because I couldn’t take it anymore. I just was not comprehending where all of the anger was coming from. And not just anger, but absolute VENOM toward anyone who offered a different outlook or a new example to the discussion.

          And the commentor who replied to comments by cutting and pasting a comment but changing up a few words to use racial rofiling as the example…?! o_0 That person needs to learn how to converse! He/She seemed like a smart-a$$ who had no real response other than to be a butt.

          I completely got/agreed with Champ’s post…wasn’t angry about anything in it.

          I agree 1000% with everything your comment read…EH-VER-E-THANG!

        • Justmetheguy

          ” I was up until 1 this morning reading EVERY. LAST. COMMENT. that was posted, and it just baffles me how such INTELLIGENT and ARTICULATE women can just talk and talk and talk….and then literally close their ears (eyes) and hear (read) only what it is they want to hear (read) then pull that ONE PART out… and over analyze it. I thought this was a place for intelligent dialogue… and that cannot happen if one will not GOD DAMN LISTEN!”

          (starts sllow clap)

        • Sam

          I know that for the purposes of the post the blogger is referring to men and women in terms of rape, but let’s not forget that rape is universal. The act of rape is not one that discriminates. The idea is that women should also be taught how to prevent rape by way of precautions is understood by me but what advice do you have for children? The mentally and physically disadvantaged? Boys? Men? The elderly? Exactly. When trying to act like you have women’s best interest in mind, please do not forget the real issue at hand. Rape is a psychological cripple, crime and major issue that people in our world are unfortunately experiencing; if a rapist can’t get to the woman or man drinking way too much in the club, the rapist will get to the young woman or man that the rapist has known throughout school. Rapists are rapists regardless of what you wear, drink, or look like. For that reason and that reason alone we should invest all the time and energy in the world nurturing and teaching how NOT to rape. Sit the fuck down if you think otherwise.

    • Mena

      You’re making this worse by stating something that doesn’t need to be said. He offended enough people yesterday that even Liz and Panama seemed to be iritated. Let’s move on.

    • Keisha

      He effectively used the same technique as Awkward Black Girl in their unapologetic apology…good job! :-)

      • ThisIshRightHereNinja

        I purposely avoided VSB yesterday because I agree that this is not the forum in which to discuss that topic with the seriousness that it deserves. Also, even without having read it, I fully expected the author (I didn’t know who it was at the time) to deliver an Issa Rae style apology because I remember Champ e-fellating her when she did it. It would be a waste of emotion to be disappointed in Champ for his arrogance/irresponsibility, but I am not surprised in the least as a great many very smart people have undertaken similar conversations to similar backlash. I recognize that I am more sensitive about the subject than the average reader and so I protected my sanity by choosing not to consume the article. I’m not judging anyone else for failing to do the same, but IJS.

        VSB has not lost me as a fan, but this whole situation did remind me that this is only a blog. The articles are only thoughts and opinions. The writers are only some guys with server space and something to say. And that’s ok. Henceforth, I will do better to look at VSB for what it is, and nothing more.

        • Please, No Photos

          e-cunnilling-ing perhaps? ;)

          (point taken)

          • ThisIshRightHereNinja

            lol. I considered it. I really did.

            • Justmetheguy

              @ ThisIshRightHereNinja- That was very mature and intelligent of you to just stay away for your own sanity. Most of us don’t have that type of discipline and/or discernment. I agree with you totally about seeing this site for what it is, nothing more, nothing less. I’ve read ish that has been written here (especially by Champ) and been offended, felt unfairly ridiculed, and even flat out disrespected by someone who was ignorant about what he was referencing all in the name of clever humor and it sux. I’m sure I’m not the only one. A topic like rape though…yeah, whole nother level of pissivity is in order. So again, I get it. We all do have a tendency to put the site and the authors on a moral and intellectual pedastal because we see so many good qualities in them and see how far reaching this site is. It has soooo much more power than Champ, Liz, and P probably realize, which can lead to a lot of letdowns from those of us who wanna see it reach its full potential and actually educate (taking EVERYTHING into account) while entertaining us. But we all gotta remember that not only are they humans who won’t feel the same way as us on every issue, but that this site is just a blog where ppl tell you their initial thoughts and issues with certain topics. That’s all. So yeah, great points you made

              • SweetSass

                Feeling bad about a major… not the same thing as feeling bad about rape. Not even close, dude.

                • Justmetheguy

                  @SweetSass- Right cause that’s exactly what I said/implied. Ok. Good job Sherlock. And way to address EVERYTHING I said too. You sure know how to have a productive conversation.

  • http://www.testorshia.blogspot.com Tes

    Aww Uncle Champ… *e-hug*

    I appreciate days like yesterday here. Yes, we (I say WE as if I’m a piece of the movement…) can do diva dude days and fun but I enjoy deeper conversations. Yesterday may have hurt some readers, but just like friends, we all have differing opinions and we all still come back.

    Can we have deep conversations like that more often? Maybe some not so inflammatory, but still…?

    • jazzylia

      +1

    • http://twitter.com/kjnetic King Jordan

      are we going to come back?

      or are some of us going to walk on eggshells?

      • Justmetheguy

        @King Jordan- I’m gonna walk on eggshells about sensitive topics, because I don’t appreciate being accused of being a rapist while simultaneously having my perfectly valid (albeit uncomfortable) points be ignored or ridiculed because they aren’t in accordance with other people’s preset theories and experiences. I’ve also vowed that I’m not gonna really speak (besides playful jokes that don’t contribute much to the conversation) about any issue that involves men and women interacting together unless it’s all positive and makes women look more or less flawless. I’m not joking either, what’s the point of trying to offer a different perspective in an environment like this? Clearly I don’t know sh*t, don’t know why I ever thought otherwise smh

        • http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=M5FR1LGsT7E TheAnti-Cool

          Well now that you know better we expect you to do better. Don’t disappoint us. Or else.

          • Chanelle

            lol

        • http://twitter.com/kjnetic King Jordan

          well i was taking notes yesterday, so i’m almost ready to understand that i’m a potential monster…i’ve practiced running to the other side of the street when i see a BW coming…just gotta figure out what to do in the subways…

          oh wait, am i allowed to be tounge-in-cheek?

          • http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=M5FR1LGsT7E TheAnti-Cool

            Did you ask if you could put your tongue there first? No you did not. You just did it and then asked. For shame.

            • SunaoButterfly

              TAC, you slay me. Every. Time. <3

          • Royale W. Cheese

            Running away from BW might constitute self hatred and b*tch-made ninja behavior. Can’t do that either.

            *Removing tongue from cheek* But on the real. Please don’t fall prey to reactionism. Most of the responses yesterday came directly from hurt. Not to dismiss the hurt, but when someone starts venting instead of directly addressing a statement, they are just not ready to discuss it. That’s all that means. It shoudn’t lead you to become cynical.

            • Justmetheguy

              @ TAC- I will do better from now on, don’t know what came over me lol

              @King Jordan- Did you not learn ANY D*MN thing?! Watch where you put that d*mn tongue without permission! lol, and btw didn’t you use to go by another name? You remind me of a certain super hero I use to know on these e-streets

              @My new crush Royale Cheese- I was cynical before yesterday’s post, people’s failure to genuinely try to see where I was coming from just added to that. I understand they were responding out of hurt, and I really only wanted to show them that the term rape gets overused almost as much as the term “racism”. I thought I did a good job of showing that I understand exactly what they were saying about victim blaming and the fact that rape is virtually impossible to prevent in most cases. I still maintain that there are a few situations where it can be prevented, but I didn’t want that to take away from the fact that the majority of the time it can’t.

              It’s also pretty funny how one of the commenters kept referencing racism and white privilege because having discussions with women about these types of things and having my perfectly valid points get ignored or discredited on the REGULAR by several women has completely changed the way I feel about racism, prejudice, and white privilege. I side with white folks waaaaay more than I used to. It’s like they can’t win if they make a non “yes man” comment. I definitely have a newfound respect for the ones willing to take it there and be made out a villain. I’ve become a better person after being forced into the villain role for simply being honest, so I totally get it now. I feel you Billy lol

              • http://twitter.com/kjnetic King Jordan

                gadzooks, just me has figured me out!

                *shoots webbing and swings away*

                your friendly neighboorhood….nice guy?

                • http://www.testorshia.blogspot.com Tes

                  ^___^ IT IS YOU! *e-squeeze* hiiiii! lol

                  • http://twitter.com/kjnetic King Jordan

                    (fat albert voice) hey hey heyy (/fat albert voice)

                    yeah, i had to change names, when i saw there was another Peter Parker…didn’t want to get folks too confuzzled

                    • Justmetheguy

                      @King Jordan- haha, yeah I just knew it had to be you. We have a lot of similar views and your style of humor is always right on time. It just sounded too much like you to be a new commenter lol, but yeah I did peep that there was another Peter Parker and it had me hella confused lol. Congrats on the name change Your Majesty lol. I think Imma come back as Metta World Peace lol

              • Royale W. Cheese

                “I side with white folks waaaaay more than I used to. It’s like they can’t win if they make a non “yes man” comment.”

                *Daps* Exactly. In the victim/ oppressor dynamic, ironically it’s the “oppressor” we need to get engaged to completely solve the problem. Convincing any person who might be identified as the “oppressor” that they are inherently evil and useless is not how we win.

                • SweetSass

                  So when are you going to the KKK rally to ‘dialogue’?

                  • Justmetheguy

                    ” So when are you going to the KKK rally to ‘dialogue’?”

                    Soon as I get that invite! Especially if I have any more “conversations” with negroes who only intend to talk at me and tell me how wrong I am when they didn’t actually even hear nothing I said except the part that they could dissect and infer something that would support their argument. Can’t wait to get started cross burning wit Jethro and nem!

                • SweetSass

                  Royale, did you not see the part where he says ‘rape’ gets ‘overused’…. he is literally deny that there is a problem. PLEASE tell me how you are at all educating him about the issue. You are high fiving him for deny YOUR experience as ‘rape-rape’… Stockholm syndrome?

              • http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=M5FR1LGsT7E TheAnti-Cool

                Oh, and what’s this about Royale being your “new” crush? Hm?

                …I guess she cute or whatever.
                *sideeye*

                • Corey

                  Don’t worry, we didn’t ALL forget about you ma’am.

                • Justmetheguy

                  @ The Anti-Cool- You never made a move….lol, nah but I’m one of the evolved VSBs (like Yoles) I’m poly-amorous. There’s enough of me to go around (no Newt G.) lol

              • Manny

                I missed the explosion yesterday. But I read comments today, and yours in particular because you seemed like the only man giving honest answers. I’d like to help you understand why you got such a crazy response. The comment you made on a girl being drunk ( not passed out) and flirty with someone also drunk and going to someone’s room and giving mixed signals was the slippery slope of victim blaming. That came too close to saying she asked for it. You proved what someone said about levels of rape victims and those who get sympathy and who don’t. Most women feel this is a man’s mindset, because it’s true you can’t know whats really happened. This may seem unfair but in my opinion in their every day lives women do ALL these things to not be asking for it or be vulnerable to rape. This is the ONE moment where a man has to be more responsible, because in the end if he’s also drunk that’s not an excuse it’s evidence he was out of control. It’s a phrase women hear all the time, “don’t put yourself in that situation” because int eh end HE won’t be seen as the victim. I don’t think you’re a potential monster or a rapist on the verge, that was obviously an emotional response from other people. I truly respect your honesty.

                • Justmetheguy

                  @Manny- Thanks for actually responding to me in a way that actually addressed what I said while still disagreeing. I knew it was possible, and you aren’t the first one on this board to do so, but you are one of the few. I definitely get that that’s a slippery slope, but do you get how it’s a slippery slope for people to say “not only is it never a woman’s fault for getting sexually assaulted, but nothing she says, wears, does, implies, touches etc; effects an intoxicated man who has no history of sexual assault when in a compromising situation.” No one in their right mind would argue that a woman in a turtleneck and baggy clothing will get the same amount of lascivious attention from men as a woman of the same stature in booty shorts showing half of her cleavage. This fact alone should prove that you can’t completely dismiss the effect of how you present yourself. And this isn’t a fair argument because no statistics could be kept about how many women flat out didn’t get noticed because they weren’t dressed provocatively. We as men get told all the time that if we wanna be perceived a certain way we should/shouldn’t dress certain ways. And you know what else? Let me switch gears and show you how this same concept gets applied to many different scenarios.

                  1) My friend and I went to the D.R. a few years ago. On the flight we checked our bags because we had to due to the size. When we got to the island we discovered that cameras, Kangol hats, clothes, and cologne has been stolen. We reported it to the airport (pointless because their employees did it and weren’t gonna snitch or even admit that it could’ve been them). They told us that we should’ve kept items like that in our possession so that wouldn’t happen…Well thanks for telling me now Sherlock, that doesn’t compensate me for my losses. We reported it but had to take that loss as well as a pointless tip for how to avoid it in the future. Only pointless because now that it already happened it’s obvious. However it was still good advice and if they were to tell it to someone who hadn’t traveled internationally it might actually prevent them from being the victim of theft.

                  I won’t tell a million more stories involving so called victim blaming because all of you get the point, it’s human nature whether it’s someone who cares about you or not, to give advice even if you don’t want the advice or don’t think the advice is helpful (even if you think it’s insulting), but it usually does NOT equate to victim blaming. This post is getting long so I’ll finish it on another post….cont.

                  • Justmetheguy

                    I’m gonna give you two scenarios involving alcohol to prove a point.

                    1) Around Halloween we were throwing a party at my college campus (sophomore year) and some locals came through to join in the festivities. I went to school with a looot of 2520s who lived most of their lives in a bubble of naiveté. This fact combined with the alcohol in their systems and the occasion of Halloween led them to make a regrettable decision. They decided that they were gonna jump out of the bushes (in their gorilla constumes) and scare ppl as they walked by. They had scared some lil white girls so I guess they got more and more bold and decided to scare a group of African-American gents walking by (the locals I mentioned earlier)…well, that led to them promptly getting beaten to a pulp (“This n*gga tried to run up on us cuz”). After they were beaten unconscious the gents felt it was appropriate to “get his pockets cuz” and be out with no trace.
                    Now the victims in this situation were under the influence of alcohol (not so good for decision making) and made a bad judgement call. Is it their fault that they picked the wrong individuals to scare? Did they deserve to be beaten (talk about not owning your body) senseless because the other individuals were not in a good mood? Absolutely not, but did we all laugh and feel as though they had it coming? Yep, women included. No one would laugh at a rape, but the immediate focus when something effed up happens is to ALWAYS look for a way for others that DID NOT get harmed to avoid it in the future. It’s human nature, but I guess we should stop saying it aloud when it comes to something like this, because as we’ve discussed ad nauseum MOST rapes CANNOT be avoided and don’t even get committed by strangers lurking in the bushes.

                    • Justmetheguy

                      I won’t even tell the other story, I think you get what I’m saying. The other one also involves a guy getting beat to a pulp after making some bad decisions while intoxicated and becoming the laughingstock of the club. I’m not saying this is right, but when you over-indulge in alcohol you ALWAYS put yourself at some kind of risk, and when you have no one around to take you out of certain situations you WILL BE VULNERABLE no matter what sex you are. We ALL know multiple stories about guys getting their *sses whipped behind liquid courage, and none of us feel that much sympathy for them. However when it comes to women and rape, obvious facts get misinterpreted for victim blaming, and that’s not gonna allow this conversation to progress the way it should. Someone said something to the effect of “I should be able to drink until I pass out or black out” and in an ideal world you should. However in this world you better be prepared to deal with the consequences of what not remembering what you did or where you were entails. Some drunk bamma might not have even realized how drunk you were (especially when he was also drunk) and might have mistaken a yes that you didn’t mean for a yes that you did mean…You don’t give a prosecutor too much of a fighting chance when you get wrecklessly drunk. It’s effed up, but it’s true. Go ahead and keep firing shots at the messenger though, I don’t even mind anymore.

              • http://k-unwrapped.blogspot.com kiesh

                It’s possible to for people to see where you’re coming from…and still disagree.

                • http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=M5FR1LGsT7E TheAnti-Cool

                  Right.

                • Justmetheguy

                  @Kiesh- I agree. It definitely is, but most (certainly not all) of the commenters who were in disagreement with me yesterday didn’t demonstrate that they saw where I was coming from. They began ranting about sh*t I didn’t say, nor did I imply. They inferred most of it, and began their rebuttals with a 2+2=22 premise. No intelligent conversation can progress when people do that. I don’t want them to agree, I don’t expect them to agree, but I do expect them to respond to what I actually said and stop assuming so much based on what other men they know have said…ya know?

              • SweetSass

                Based on what facts do you think rape gets overused?

                • Bey

                  I’m going to go ahead and be the devil (I can deal with that) and say it. But SweetSaas, honey you need help! I say that with as much love as I can possibly convey over the internet. It is painfully obvious that you are hurt and damaged by what happened to you. And I can only hope and pray that your defensiveness and lack of listening to comprehend (NOT TO RESPOND) only take precedence when rape is the topic. If not, the issue is far bigger than anything we could ever address on this website. And that’s all I have. You’re in my prayers. No pun, no sarcasm, no shade.

                  • SweetSass

                    What-the-hell-are-you-talking-about?

                    He said in the post I was responding to… ‘rape gets overused’.

                    I’m asking him.. where does he get that idea.

                    This has nothing to do with me being ‘emotional’ or ‘hurt’… I’m asking him a straight question based on what he said. Factual. Ok.

                    Stop trying to gaslight or armchair psychoanalyze.

                    • Bey

                      I won’t get into the long answer… so the short answer to the question what-the-hell am I talking about… is: YOU. In looking at the post I see that my comment was inadvertently placed under THE ONE comment you made that wasn’t off the deep end. So forgive me for my placement. But my comment still stands. PLEASE don’t act like you don’t see what you’ve been saying for the past few days. I COULD sit here and go tit for tat with you, like you seem SO ANXIOUS to do with EVERYONE who doesn’t co-sign on your bs… but why?
                      -girl bye.

            • rnic

              “Not to dismiss the hurt, but when someone starts venting instea of directly addressing the statement, they are just not ready to discuss it.”

              +10
              This basically sums it all up to me. VSB was just not the platform for opinions from Champ OR venting, on this topic. Not enough context on Champs end to address it with the level of sensitivity needed and too much context on the other end to attempt to respond to the topic at hand without disgust toward said insensitivity taking over.

              • http://sarcasmforbreakfast.com MizzCam

                Exactly.

            • Chase

              I completely disagree Royale, just because many women spoke from a place of sincere hurt, and vented, doesn’t disqualify them from the conversation and being “ready” to talk about it. There is no such thing as a completely objective and neutral participant in a conversation. We all bring our experiences, hurts, feelings, and thoughts into the discussion. A victim of rape who is emotional talking about the subject of rape, should not be barred from the discussion because she can’t be “objective”. I was just reading the posts casually, but coming across this comment made me marvel at the level of ignorance and quite honestly, absolute stupidity folks are displaying. Yes I called your opinion absolutely stupid. No I haven’t been raped, nor thankfully has anyone close to me, so I guess by your qualifications I am stable enough to converse with you. And 15 seconds later, I still think your opinion is absolutely stupid. Just your opinion though, not you, try to respond objectively.

        • Sandpaper

          @Justmetheguy,

          Someone has to do it. Why not you?

        • http://wildcougarconfessions.co Wild Cougar

          *plays violin*

          • http://twitter.com/kjnetic King Jordan

            now you know how we feel when you post, o psuedo cougarish one
            #ViolinConcertoNo.3inB****minor

        • Jamecia

          lol

        • Sam

          It’s not a matter of “flawless ness” btw–men are not the only ones who rape, your brilliant blogger whom you are championing for should have elaborated some more on that. And yes, I understand that he was responding to an article, but if that was he rebuttal then someone needs to go back to the old drawing board. Defending the actions of rapists (which in essence is what he’s doing and please do not say he’s not because he very clearly is; if you didn’t drink so much, then you’d have your wits about you. . . Because rapists MOSTLY go after sloppy drunks. Right.) is never an easy task.

      • http://www.testorshia.blogspot.com Tes

        I for one have not gone anywhere to have to come back. And I’d appreciate it if my VSBs didn’t walk on eggshells as that’s not been what we are about nor what we represent. What’s the point of having an open discussion if you aren’t going to be open?

        I know it sucks to get painted with the broad brush of “man = monster” but understand it wasn’t directed at you, moreso the men in the past who may or may not share your opinions, and coming from a place of hurt. Don’t discredit the hurt, but don’t take any of it as a personal affront to you guys.

        • http://twitter.com/kjnetic King Jordan

          “What’s the point of having an open discussion if you aren’t going to be open?”

          So other people can ‘talk’, and ‘discuss’.

          dialogue isn’t always going to be agreeable. but dialogue requires multiple opinions/people talking. certain topics should not be dialogues, and to be somewhat honest, yesterday’s topic show’d that. and i get that.

          *nods head in agreement*

  • http://www.awordorthree.com Crystal Marie

    Thank you.

  • http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=M5FR1LGsT7E TheAnti-Cool

    Hmm…I think I’ve offended enough people with my comments on yesterday’s post so…Just hmm.

    • Sandpaper

      Don’t stop now, double down!!

      j/k

    • http://www.styleillusions.com WIP

      LOL, you scared now?

      • http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=M5FR1LGsT7E TheAnti-Cool

        Who? Me? I ain’t neva scurred. :)

        Just trying to be sensitive toward those still reeling from yesterday. No worries. I’ll be over it shortly.

  • Mo-VSS

    I had another response, but I’ll go with this one. The offensive thing was this: There is a difference in “rape prevention” and “risk reduction.” EVERYONE can participate in risk reduction in regard to preventing any type of crime being committed against them. However, rape is the ONLY crime I know of where we ask the victims of it to shoulder the burden of prevention and risk reduction. Victims of robbery aren’t told to “stop dressing rich or stop living in nice homes;” victims of identity theft aren’t told “stop being who you are or stop having good credit.”

    But somehow, we as a society have come to think that we can tell women, “follow this list of rules and you’ll be okay,” and then feel completely justified in not educating men in any way about rape culture and rape, what constitutes rape and what they can do to help stop it.

    And when someone addresses educating boys/young me about how to help reduce the environment that fosters rape, we get that sort of tongue-n-cheeck response that Champ posted yesterday. We get someone had no intention of taking it seriously, but asking that we take him seriously.

    I’m not exaggerating when I say that I was offended at best and it made me honestly think that the only time I’ll read the blog or comment is when PJ is writing. That might seem extreme, but those were definitely my thoughts.

    • http://ccooper929.wordpress.com/ Chad C.

      ***slow claps and stands up in admiration***

      co-sign on this 100%

    • hehe

      “I’m not exaggerating when I say that I was offended at best and it made me honestly think that the only time I’ll read the blog or comment is when PJ is writing. That might seem extreme, but those were definitely my thoughts.”

      Not extreme at all. I honestly was contemplating not returning to this website.

      • Me Too

        Typically I only read when Panama is posting (I think he’s a better writer for plenty of reasons.) Tried something new this week I won’t be trying again.

    • 2mques

      Who is going to educate these young men?

      • demondog06

        grown people who can talk about sensitive topics without getting all offended and accusing folks of being potential rapists…….*ducks back into shadows*

    • Iceprincess

      But here u are, commenting. Lmao ijs….

    • Justmetheguy

      ” And when someone addresses educating boys/young me about how to help reduce the environment that fosters rape, we get that sort of tongue-n-cheeck response that Champ posted yesterday. We get someone had no intention of taking it seriously, but asking that we take him seriously.”

      This is understandable, but I’m pretty sure Champ and every other male commenter prefaced their SLIGHTLY dissenting views by saying that we should DEFINITELY educate boys about how horrible and pathetic of an act it is and how to avoid being in a situation where anyone could even think you raped anyone. The issue was when that part of our comments got COMPLETELY IGNORED because it didn’t allow people free rein to go ALL THE WAY IN on us since they can’t take their anger out on actual rapists. That’s the type of ish that makes ninjas say “well f*ck it, yall don’t want my contribution then handle that ish on your own then.” I still have issues with some of what yall were suggesting about consent and changing minds etc; but I didn’t lose any respect for any of the regulars that I see commenting on this site, not sure everyone here can say that…not that I really give that much of a sh*t how a bunch of random strangers feel about me, but it really is discouraging to see how hard a conversation can be to have, especially when the evidence of what I ACTUALLY SAID is sitting right there in people’s faces but they still choose to twist my words and infer some bs that isn’t actually there. Again, didn’t lose no respect for anybody that I respected beforehand, but I re-learned a valuable lesson, certain topics should be avoided unless you’re ready to just nod your head and pretend to agree with everything the other party is asserting. Sux that it is that way, but it is…

      • 2mques

        I don’t, because nobody has told me who is going to educate these boys?

        • Mo-VSS

          The same folks who educate girls on what to do to lessen her risk of becoming a victim. Parents, concerned/enlightened family member, clergy, schools, non profits, etc.

        • Chanelle

          You can help educate them along with the people Mo-vss mentioned. Along with coaches and anyone else young men come in contact with.

        • http://thegoldenageofvanity.wordpress.com Jevioso

          I think you and I agree that telling people to teach kids, no mean no, and stop means stop, kind of shows you how dumb and hopeless we think these kids are. The issue of rape has been handled by people too caught up in the horror of the act to come up with anything solid to fight it: why else would come up with the simple idea that education is the key? Aren’t these the same people who tell us education or therapy is the key to everything. You’re fat – you need education. You’re violent – you need education. You like having sex outside of marriage – You need therapy. You like white women – you need therapy and a history lesson smh.

          Education is a simple answer that won’t lead to significant results because people aren’t raping because they’re ignorant. And the whole idea/ concept (a feminist concept) of rape culture is based on the false premise that men collectively are programmed to either rape, or act in a certain when they hear about rape that makes them unsympathetic to victims. So if that’s the case, what’s the point of telling men to educate boys, when they’re already plugged in and are veterans in the system otherwise known as Rape Culture? You can’t lead someone out of the matrix if you haven’t been unplugged.

          • SweetSass

            So your solution is don’t do anything and ignore the problem?

            • Justmetheguy

              “So your solution is don’t do anything about the problem?” Can’t speak for him, but it sounds like his solution is at least be honest about the ENTIRE nature of rape and sexual assault and don’t waste money and resources on pointless endeavors. Also be consistent with your assertions. You can’t assert that men are PROGRAMMED to be either rapists, potential rapists, rape apologists, participants in rape culture, insensitive to rape victims, and pretty much just useless human beings as it pertains to stopping rape, then ask men to pass on this dangerous mindframe to boys. What kind of sense does that make? And what solution have you come up with besides berate any man that speaks on the issue and suggest that we “educate” future rapists that it’s wrong? And that’s a serious question.

      • Royale W. Cheese

        “That’s the type of ish that makes ninjas say “well f*ck it, yall don’t want my contribution then handle that ish on your own then.” ”

        This. When hurt people come into the convo with guns blazing, this is the consequence. And you know what? They don’t even care. Their response is “Well f*** you, then. You probably a rapin @$$ rapist anyway!”

        • http://twitter.com/kjnetic King Jordan

          “You probably a rapin @$$ rapist anyway!””

          #hideyawife #hideyakids #rapineverybody

          Too soon, right?

          *imports himself to the doghouse*

          • http://WWW.KEISHAWRITES.COM keisha

            This made me laugh when I didn’t want to…I loathe thee

            bout #hideyokids lmao

            • MissJacksonIfYaNasty

              When I say that made me chuckle and now I’m shamed…

        • Todd

          You definitely nailed it Royale. I understand the education part, but when you know you’re way too traumatized to discuss something rationally, the smart thing to do is fall back and get your head together.

          • Royale W. Cheese

            I’m not going to suggest that anyone fall back, per se. Venting is part of the healing process. It’s just that people are confusing “talking at” and tit-for-tat with “discussion” and “problem solving.”

        • http://verysmartbrothas.com Panama Jackson

          my question to you is why wouldn’t people come into this convo with guns blazing? its contentious from the title on down. you’re almost belittling anybody for having the gumption to be personally connected. sure we should all be able to discuss using focused rational thought, but since when has that ever been the case?

          if i wrote a post titled, “you are a b*tch and here’s why…” and i write the ABSOLUTE most logically sound argument known to mankind, you’re telling me that you wouldn’t still take umbrage and feel personally attacked? my point is…as writers we’re all trying to connect…you can’t get mad when you hit a homerun. lol.

          • Mo-VSS

            THANK YOU

          • SweetSass

            Amen, finally some sense. Thanks P. I was literally ready to punch a hole through the wall will frustration.

          • http://fourpageletter.wordpress.com keisha brown

            THIS!!!

            i dont understand why people believe that emotions can be shut on and off.
            we all react differently to different things.

            when champ posted 5 reasons NBA > NFL – my reaction was long and lengthy (as per usual) because well.. i vehemently disagreed. and that was on something very trivial.

            a topic about something that is very personal – the violation of one’s body is supposed to just have us (who may have been there before) react with just a yawn? GTEFOH. it’s a personal topic, it’s bound to get personal. people are going to take it personally. it’s human nature.

            im guessing based on today’s post that many of the comments yesterday were emotional and therefore are automatically being discounted as having any sort of validity. to which i also disagree with. you may not agree or understand, but every person’s feelings are valid and real. it’s insulting to dismiss them if they come from a place that you’ve never been.

          • http://asiyah3.wordpress.com Asiyah

            Right on, P.

          • Royale W. Cheese

            ~~~”my question to you is why wouldn’t people come into this convo with guns blazing?”

            Well, of course they do. But then they try to pass venting off as a “discussion” and accuse everyone who does not emote like they do of being “insensitive.” Miss me with that.

            ~~~”you’re almost belittling anybody for having the gumption to be personally connected.”

            Yes, it looks like that’s how they are taking it.

            • Justmetheguy

              ” Well, of course they do. But then they try to pass venting off as a “discussion” and accuse everyone who does not emote like they do of being “insensitive.” Miss me with that.”

              Yup, and if you’re a guy that also accuse you of BEING a rapist and being a potential KKK recruit (wish I was makin this up, it would be very creative of me) smh

              • Royale W. Cheese

                The KKK analogy actually presents a nice opportunity for extended analogy. Going to a KKK rally and trying to fix racism by telling them how wrong and stupid they are will not work. Telling potential white allies how their thought processes actually mirror the KKK certainly doesn’t work either. I’d rather help white allies figure out how their actions can be modified for the benefit of everyone.

        • SweetSass

          Cheese, you claim to be saying that you’re advancing some dialogue or taking some different method of teaching men about rape or changing minds of ‘oppressors’ but….

          I didn’t see you do annnnny of the that in the posts yesterday. You didn’t gently challenge some assertions from men that it’s ok to have sex with someone or coerce them if they give off mixed messages. You just nodded in assent. You did no edumacation.. you just agreed and defended no matter what toxic things they were spewing. Take Jevioso’s whole crazy argument that feminism breeds rape. You didn’t say shit about that… you didn’t point out how that is not true and a harmful statement. You did nothing.

          What you did do is challenge those of us who responded to the initial post with our rape stories and suggested we were being ‘overly senstive’ or ‘lashing out’ or not being logical.

          • Mena

            Her entire attitude has been of utter disdain for other people’s feelings. It offended me more by the way she was reacting to others comments than by what Champ wrote. It was sort of a “i am higher and better than this” mentality. Let it go.

            • Royale W. Cheese

              I accept that emoting is part of the healing process. I think the writers are actually above a lot of the vindictive posts they had written. I don’t think I’m better than anybody.

          • Royale W. Cheese

            Just for the record, I’m ignoring all of your needling, bullying, and nagging responses from here on out. I am not convinced that you are an ally, that you want to solve any problems, nor that you care about my past trauma or anyone else’s for that matter. I think you are more hell-bent on exploiting sexual abuse as a platform to make yourself look holy.

            I don’t care how you feel about that. You probably can’t say much worse about me now than the petty vitriol you were vomiting in the previous thread.

            Just f*** off, for real.

            • Royale W. Cheese

              You know what. That assessment of you that I wrote is dead wrong. I’m sorry. Not only is it false, I should not have written it. When you dismissed my concern and my approach to the issue as, essentially, selling out, you intended to hurt me, and it did. Hurt people hurt people. Honestly, I agree with what the Anticool has pointed out before. You are hurt. You are motivated to prove that rape prevention does not exist, never works, and never will work. No matter how much I support the fact that no victim deserves being assaulted, as long as I also say “preventative measures are worth taking” you will attack that notion. For what it’s worth, please believe that regardless of what happened to you, you are not powerless, Sass. I’m not trying to one-up you or show off. I’m going to keep saying this every time you inadvertently start to spread your hurt to me.

              • Justmetheguy

                ” You are hurt. You are motivated to prove that rape prevention does not exist, never works, and never will work. No matter how much I support the fact that no victim deserves being assaulted, as long as I also say “preventative measures are worth taking” you will attack that notion.”

                Perfect summary. That’s why I haven’t been responding to her. It’s futile at this point. I’m ready for the next post…

              • SweetSass

                Sell out. Hmm. Your words not mine.

                But if the shoe fits. You must wear it.

      • Mo-VSS

        I’ll address you because I read what you wrote yesterday. My dissent was not and has not been with what you and other male posters think. It’s with the blogger. His callous attempt at broaching a subject that calls for care is infuriating.

        I’m a writer. I know good and damn well when I write a piece what the tone is or very well may be construed as. If I thought Champ was a subpar writer, I’d not have this sentiment. He formerly had my respect because I admired his style of writing. However, as a writer you broach subjects of different tone with a one that is appropriate. His tone on this subject was not appropriate. The discourse that followed after was a DIRECT result of the way he CHOSE to approach the subject.

        To be clear. I’m not a hysteric or raged filled victim. I’m very level headed and clear on a great many things. This being one of them. I agree that risk reduction is something we all can benefit from. I do NOT agree that rape prevention is something that is majority pinned on the common sense (or lack thereof) of the victim. I have no problem arguing that. Nor do I have a problem with someone who feels/thinks differently. The problem I had and still have is the insensitive, inflammatory tone Champ put forth.

        There’s a way to inspire conversation and discussion and there’s a way to light in on fire. Champ chose the latter.

        • Justmetheguy

          @Mo-Vss- Well damn. I didn’t know that’s what your point was. If that’s what you were saying I’d be an idiot to argue with you, because I 100% agree with all that. He should’ve known better than that. He could’ve even approached the subject by asking some real questions about what constitutes consent. He could’ve and should’ve challenged our perceptions while asking us for our opinions, but he took the same tone he normally takes with all topics (I was borderline annoyed when he took that topic about uninformed teenagers picking majors for what he considered to be the wrong reasons, but I let it slide for a number of reasons, so I TOTALLY get why his tone would constitute such an explosive reaction.) Very well said though, I get it (your point of view at least) now and I actually agree 100% instead of 95 this time

          • Mo-VSS

            No worries. I have no problem with commenters who may not “get it.” I’ve been around long enough to know sometime people agree and sometimes they don’t. Such is life. We’re here to have discourse…no matter now belabored that discourse may be.

            I have a problem with what I stated before. Thanks for taking the time to read and comment about what I said.

            • http://WWW.KEISHAWRITES.COM keisha

              I continue to enjoy your thoughtful responses gurl ;)

            • http://verysmartbrothas.com Panama Jackson

              yeah, i lub you too boo.

              • Mo-VSS

                Thanks y’all

        • http://fourpageletter.wordpress.com keisha brown

          i love thee mo for so many reasons. *hugs*

          • Mo-VSS

            Thanks lady

        • simpliselegance

          Regardless of my opinion about Champs post, I’d like to thank you for what you said. I agree %100 with what you said and not only that but I’m appreciate of how you chose to say it. I can’t believe that there are so many people on this thread that seem to not be able to disagree without being respectful.

          I’m not saying be emotionless, aloof or whatever. I’m simply saying I don’t think the name calling and complete disrespect is at all necessary. Not only is it ridiculous but your chances of having someone legitimately hear you out for what you’re saying greatly decrease because all they see is the disrespect and then people’s feelings get hurt (more) and they get angry(er).

      • Shea

        THIS! I understand how emotionally-charged this topic is (as a woman), but I can only imagine how difficult this jagged pill would be to swallow if I were actually a survivor of such brutality. Clearly if employing a few elementary preventative techniques were a workable solution, these assaults would not be so prevalent.

        That being said, it was also disheartening to see so many (seemingly well-intentioned) male commenters attacked for expressing their views. IMO, at the root of the problem is the adversarial nature of male-female relations: men are taught to behave as predators and women are taught to behave as prey. In this sense, there is probably a lot of un-learning and re-education that needs to be done for men, but how can this be accomplished if we cannot discuss these issues and ferret out the sticky areas? Say a guy truly is confused about issues of consent–rather than label him a rapist, we need to be able to initiate a dialogue in a collaborative construct (rather than propagating the adversarial issues that fuel the problem). I have to believe that there are more men out there who are truly willing and eager to work on these issues than there are incorrigible lowlifes.

        Due to the divisive nature of this issue (attacker v. victim), it is natural to view the male opinion with skepticism and anger. But we need men to be a part of the discussion and thereby a part of the solution because, after all, the key to the only true preventative measure lies in the programming of the male consciousness.

        • http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=M5FR1LGsT7E TheAnti-Cool

          Yes.

        • Mo-VSS

          Agreed

        • Royale W. Cheese

          Thank you.

      • http://wildcougarconfessions.co Wild Cougar

        Want some cheese with your whine?

      • Deviant

        “…I’m pretty sure Champ and every other male commenter prefaced their SLIGHTLY dissenting views by saying that we should DEFINITELY educate boys about how horrible and pathetic of an act it is and how to avoid being in a situation where anyone could even think you raped anyone.”

        Except they didn’t. You and a few others may have. But “every”? Nah.

      • niksmit

        “I still have issues with some of what yall were suggesting about consent and changing minds etc”

        I’m really curious about what your issues are; the discussions about that are part of comprehensive rape education. The trollish person that suggested that “no means no” is the extent of rape education was wrong, that type of “education” is just as much bull as telling someone “just say no” or “don’t see color.” Just because someone did it wrong in the past doesn’t mean it can’t be done correctly now. We are VSP and we can do better.

    • thewayoftheid

      Exactly.

      This dude plugged his web project, apologized for the timing (not the sentiment) of his post, and then talked about how hurt he was. Ok then.

    • Keisha

      “However, rape is the ONLY crime I know of where we ask the victims of it to shoulder the burden of prevention and risk reduction. Victims of robbery aren’t told to “stop dressing rich or stop living in nice homes;” victims of identity theft aren’t told “stop being who you are or stop having good credit.”

      EVERY crime we ask the victimes to shoulder the burden of prevention and risk reduction. We tell victims of robbery to do things like take self defense classes, be aware of their surroundings, get an alarm system, buy a gun, etc. We tell victims of identity theft to be more aware of where they use their credit cards and who they share their PII with…not only that, but we tell them to pull their credit reports annually to make sure no accounts have been opened without their knowledge.

      What makes rape so different??? I tell my little sister all sorts of helpful tips and put safe guards in place to reduce the risk of anything happening to her while she is out and about. My grandma used to tell me to always check the back seat of my car before I get in…I still do that to this day. One of the first things kids are taught, right after learning to look before crossing the street, is how to act if ever approached by a stranger.

      Anytime time you address a topic like that, you’re going to reactions that run the gamut and that’s okay. One reason I keep coming back is the discussion that the posts generate. The topics get people talking…sharing…learning.

      Glad you decided to come back..

      • http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=M5FR1LGsT7E TheAnti-Cool

        Well said.

      • Royale W. Cheese

        Excellent. Thank you.

      • Justmetheguy

        ” EVERY crime we ask the victimes to shoulder the burden of prevention and risk reduction. We tell victims of robbery to do things like take self defense classes, be aware of their surroundings, get an alarm system, buy a gun, etc. We tell victims of identity theft to be more aware of where they use their credit cards and who they share their PII with…not only that, but we tell them to pull their credit reports annually to make sure no accounts have been opened without their knowledge.”

        Thank you so much for this! This is another point I made yesterday that got ignored/lost in the shuffle. It’s a natural reaction to try to problem solve instead of just sitting their silent and offering nothing but condolences. Doesn’t make it right, but we do it ANYTIME something bad happens. It goes all the way back to getting mad at my parents after I would fall and bump my head and they’d spend 5 minutes talking about how to be careful and how I shouldn’t have been horsing around in the first place and blah blah blah. We all hate to hear a bunch of logic AFTER WE GET HURT especially, so I get why ppl got offended, but it’s certainly not just rape that gets that type of response. Although I get why something that traumatic would truly piss someone off to no end. You live and you learn.

        • http://wildcougarconfessions.co Wild Cougar

          Sounds like you are continually defending an illogical emotional reaction that makes the situation worse.

          Dude logic?

          • Please, No Photos

            Your comments are entirely non-productive and consistently show the contempt you have for men. We get it, men are evil, have dude logic, etcetera etcetera. This song of yours has gotten old; please drop a new track already.

            • Justmetheguy

              ” Your comments are entirely non-productive and consistently show the contempt you have for men. We get it, men are evil, have dude logic, etcetera etcetera. This song of yours has gotten old; please drop a new track already.”

              LMFAO!!! Perfectly worded man. Couldn’t have said it better myself, and wouldn’t have tried. I gave up on responding to that individual. Seems like a very sad life she lives. I won’t add insult to her injuries lol

        • Royale W. Cheese

          I agree that it’s the amount of trauma one is feeling at the time that influences the response to pragmatic critique. It’s like if I got my car stolen after I left the doors unlocked and someone pointed out that I left the doors unlocked. If I was still feeling violated and pissed I’d take their comment as a suggestion that I “deserved” what I got (rage-induced non sequitur, which doubles as a straw man if I go on to argue down that suggestion). I might fire back that locking doors wouldn’t keep a determined thief from smashing the windows so just f*** that.

          • http://verysmartbrothas.com Panama Jackson

            the difference here is that if your car can get taken without you in it. that’s not happeneing with rape.

            and the other piece is that you’re right, you can justify why your car got taken. but justifying doesnt make it right does it?

            what you all are basically saying, if i’m hearing you right is this:

            rape happens. try not to get raped. that is a slippery slope if i ever heard one.

            • rhenewal

              Thank you PJ.

              Can I say that the discussion yesterday, and some of what I’m reading today frighten me? I’ve never been raped, and I’ve always tried to be careful in my daily life in order to minimize whatever factors I can. Some of the sentiments expressed by both men and women are downright scary. “Rape happens, try not to get raped” is scary. And the further thought of “and if you do, maybe you should’ve done more to prevent it/protect yourself” is implied, IMHO.

            • Royale W. Cheese

              No, PJ. What I am saying is “it’s the amount of trauma one is feeling at the time that influences the response to pragmatic critique.” It is what it is.

            • Royale W. Cheese

              “rape happens. try not to get raped. that is a slippery slope if i ever heard one.”

              Straw man. This is an example of the type of non-sequitir I’m talking about. Are you suggesting that I’m saying that this is the ultimate solution? No matter how careful I am to emphasize in my posts that this is only *part* of the equation, this gets singled out, dissected, placed out of context, and highlighted as a proposed end-all-be-all statement.

            • Justmetheguy

              ” rape happens. try not to get raped. that is a slippery slope if i ever heard one.”

              Whenever a tragedy like rape happens and people ask you to have a discussion about it (including possible prevention strategies) simply offer condolences, agree with everything the victim says and keep it moving…also a slippery slope if I ever heard one…

      • http://www.styleillusions.com WIP

        thank you for stating this more eloquently. we are always advised to way to make ourselves less of a target for a predator. if 99 times out of one hundred our attack is unavoidable, so be it. but for the 1 time we do have opportunity to affect the outcome, we try to prepare ourselves. that’s the idea i got from yesterday’s post.

        after reading yesterday’s post i thought about the times i made myself so vulnerable and thank god, nothing happened.

        • http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=M5FR1LGsT7E TheAnti-Cool

          That’s the same idea I got but every time I type that I’m told that I’m contradicting myself.

          Oh, and apparently I’m a dude now so excuse me while I scratch my balls and go get a little more cultured in rape.

        • Chanelle

          +1

      • http://panamaenrique.wordpress.com Malik

        And this has drastically reduced all those crimes from happening! No? Darn! Let’s just keep telling them, sooner or later the crime rate will drop if we continue to chastise people!

      • Deviant

        People are also taught that taking things that don’t belong to you is wrong and punishable by law. So there’s that. Does it prevent all theft? Not even close but enough of us are scared of being anally raped that it makes us think twice about our actions.

        As you said, “What makes rape so different?”

        • Justmetheguy

          ” People are also taught that taking things that don’t belong to you is wrong and punishable by law. So there’s that. Does it prevent all theft? Not even close but enough of us are scared of being anally raped that it makes us think twice about our actions.”

          Exactly. He won’t acknowledge that the concept is the same. Telling men not to rape women will have a greater effect than telling women how to keep out of harm’s way when possible…right, let me know how that one goes sir.

    • Todd

      And when someone addresses educating boys/young me about how to help reduce the environment that fosters rape, we get that sort of tongue-n-cheeck response that Champ posted yesterday. We get someone had no intention of taking it seriously, but asking that we take him seriously.

      I’m sorry, but I have a serious problem with a woman telling me what I am REQUIRED to do to protect her from a crime. I have no problem helping and stepping up when it’s clear someone needs help, and I definitely have in the past. However, being told that by so many of the women yesterday triggered the bejesus out of me. Why? Well, you know how I’ve mentioned on this blog a whole bunch of times that I grew up from emotional abuse from my mom.

      I wasn’t joking.

      I really had to fall back because mentally, I wasn’t in 2012, I was in 1990 getting yelled at for some random reason because my mom “had a stressful job” and “had so much trouble trying to take care of us”. I know that a lot of the women are coming from a point of pain, but when you vent like that, you can hurt a lot of people. Yes, I understand that the trauma is real and real deep. There are healthy ways to deal with this trauma, and unhealthy ways. Sadly, a lot of people crossed over to the unhealthy side, and thus unloaded a lot of pain onto other that didn’t deserve it.

      • Royale W. Cheese

        +1. So you weren’t the only one feeling like your mom was “discussing” *at* you?

        Man, I even witnessed Anticool being accused of “trying to be one if the boys” because of her differing viewpoint.

        • http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=M5FR1LGsT7E TheAnti-Cool

          I’m still worried that my BW Card is going to be put up for review.

          • http://www.testorshia.blogspot.com Tes

            If it goes under review, I’ll vouch for you.

            • http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=M5FR1LGsT7E TheAnti-Cool

              Thanks. I knew I could count on you.

            • SunaoButterfly

              *raises hand* Me too.

      • Mo-VSS

        You admittedly got emotionally charged because the things folks were saying brought you back to instances with your mother. Yet, it appeared as if you didn’t get why some women would read what Champ wrote and get taken back to the instances of them telling their friends/family/significant other/detectives about their ordeal and hearing something akin to “did you use common sense?”

        I feel for you because I know begin taken back to painful places isn’t the greatest feeling in the world. I don’t know about any other poster, but all I wanted was some understanding on why employing common sense as if that was the key to solving the “rape issue” was so offensive to women who’ve lived this.

        • https://twitter.com/#!/IluminatiNYC Todd

          I will be very limited and specific in what I said because someone (not you for the record) commenting just about had me in full tears here. Let me say this. It hurts to feel like you are responsible for someone else’s pain when you had nothing to do with it. I do feel where women are coming from when they are in pain. What I have an issue with is being held responsible for actions I didn’t do, I didn’t control and I couldn’t control even if I wanted to.

          A lot of post veered right into “all ninjas ain’t sh!t” territory, especially when I tried to discuss objective facts. Note that I said facts, because there’s no such thing as an objective feeling. When you start stating info and things that are at least falsifiable, and you hear back “you don’t care! It’s all your fault!” I mean…yeesh. I wouldn’t be able to pick out 99% of the people on this site from a police line-up, yet I’m responsible for your rape? Yeah…

          • Justmetheguy

            ” What I have an issue with is being held responsible for actions I didn’t do, I didn’t control and I couldn’t control even if I wanted to.

            A lot of post veered right into “all ninjas ain’t sh!t” territory, especially when I tried to discuss objective facts. ”

            Yup. Alladat is true. And you’re right feelings aren’t objective or falsifiable, but facts are. I get that people wanted to talk about feelings yesterday, but they should’ve just left it at that. Them discussing their feelings. Don’t come at those of us who have a different focus (discussing and understanding where lines of consent lay in different scenarios and working towards solutions to the cases that can be prevented, even though most cases can’t be prevented) and berate us, calling us names simply because our discussion doesn’t place your feelings above ALL ELSE including possible solutions for the ppl who haven’t actually been victimized but could be in the future.

    • http://www.styleillusions.com WIP

      “Victims of robbery aren’t told to “stop dressing rich or stop living in nice homes;’ victims of identity theft aren’t told “stop being who you are or stop having good credit.’ ”

      I disagree with this. People are given advice on preventing identify theft all the time when much of it is useless. People who fall victim to loan scams are often ridiculed. People are told to not be flashy. As I mentioned yesterday, I’ve seen many examples of robbery victims being asked (or in private discussion) “why were you down there? You shouldn’t have had all those rings on.” Domestic violence victims always get the question “why the hell you stayed?” The questioning of victims is not limited to r.ape. That isn’t arguing whether it’s right or wrong, just pointing out r.ape is not the only situation where this happens.

      • Mo-VSS

        Looking at it from that point, I agree.

      • SweetSass

        Yeah and all of those dumb questions are bogus and do NOTHING to stop the crimes from actually happening…

        That is what I was saying and got attacked for it. I even laid out exactly how and why but people still wanted to mansplain’ to me about this or that irrelevant issue… SMH.

        • http://www.styleillusions.com WIP

          I agree; after the fact these questions don’t stop crime. But you really don’t know if they have prevented a crime and probably never will. How do I know that because I left those rings at home, the thief chose the person next to me and not me? (I think that’s just the easiest illustration of what I’m saying. And in that case it didn’t actually prevent the crime, it just prevented it from happening to me, but I’m rambling…)

          The predators (of many kinds) are going to attack no matter what. All we can do is try to move ourselves from the line of fire. Many times there’s no way to do that. There are so many victims of violence that had absolutely no way out.

          I don’t believe it’s unreasonable to suggest there may be ways to make oneself a less desirable target in some cases; in the case of r.ape, probably very very few cases. Now is that the way to live- constantly stifling our inclinations and interactions because of fear? I think that’s a difference discussion. I do acknowledge that women are constantly given advice about being aware of our surroundings (and the like); that’s not new information.

    • Bey

      Can you honestly say you’ve never seen an article about “How NOT to look like a tourist”? When you go out of town, leave the lights on, leave the TV on, get a recording that barks like a dog. For Christmas time don’t leave out boxes, because then people know what new things you have in your home. I’ve heard all these things, and I’ve never thought that it was being implied that the people were ASKING to be robbed. But I don’t know…. maybe this is an argument I shouldn’t make. I honestly understand what BOTH sides are saying. It just pains me that one side is not listening to the other. But it is what it is. This is mentally exhausting… I can’t…

  • MrsCamp

    Lurker here. I won’t touch yesterday’s topic bc my life makes it painful to do so. However I realize that ur piece yesterday didn’t come from a place of malice. It simply highlights the bigger conversation that needs to be had to change the way rape is viewed country. I still love u both, will still visit the blog and still aspire to attend “Reminisce” one of these Saturdays:)

  • rnic

    As someone who wasn’t offended by yesterday’s post but understands the sentiment of those who were offended by the content AND also agrees that it’s a topic that most with such a large, diverse audience should either stay away from or stick to the facts at most, I can appreciate this follow up post.

    I’m sure a few regular readers and potential readers were lost, but I also think those that are still here will find it comforting to know that a blogger like yourself with such a large platform is not too large to take a step back and re-assess your approach in the best interest of your readers/supporters.

  • Royale W. Cheese

    Thanks for admitting to being biased before you read Zerlina’s post.

    Diva Dudes! Yeaaaaahhhh!

    • http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=M5FR1LGsT7E TheAnti-Cool

      Though he still has nothing on Kanye, my favorite diva dude.

      • Royale W. Cheese

        LOL. I wasn’t calling Champ a Diva Dude. I was cheering about the Diva Dudes video.

        OMG, I can’t wait to see it.

        • http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=M5FR1LGsT7E TheAnti-Cool

          Oh.

          (quietly goes back to the corner)

  • dre

    first i’m happy i actually get to post a reply when there isnt already 300+ responses when i wake up in the morning, and getting lost in the mix.

    Second Im disappointed that subject erupted like it did. I know this is light hearted most of the time, but it truly is refreshing, to be able to “go there” and talk about any and all subjects, that sadly get swept under the rug.

    Its sad yet understandable how some people reacted, but its truly opened my eyes.

    I still continue to support you guys, and I wish nothing but success.

    although Im sad cause I know this will probably lead to you all censoring yall selves in the future. similar to a underground artist going mainstream C’est la vive , but anyway you still have a (die-hard almost) fan in me.

  • Angel Baby

    I feel bad. I was honestly going to tell you yesterday (CA time only 9pm) when I read this and it only had 5 comments to take it down before it got that bad. I just wasn’t sure if that would’ve been noted, or if it was needed bc sometimes things need to be said out loud so it can be addressed. I love ya’ man but smh. What’s tomorrow’s post going to be about? ;)