Barring another snowpocalypse or Beyonce pregnant scare, “Your Degrees Won’t Keep You Warm at Night: The Very Smart Brothas Guide to Mating, Dating, and Fighting Crime,” is set to be released Jan 24th—11 very short days from today. And, as you may have imagined, I’m a nervous wreck to the point that I’ve had days in the past week where I had to employ each of my usual sure-fire stress relievers—working out, playing basketball, writing, sex, drinking rum, masturbation—within a 12 hour span just so I’d be able to get five consecutive hours of sleep.
But, among the dozens of questions swirling around in my head—“Will people actually buy it?”, “Are there any typos we missed?”, “Did I use the right back cover pic?”—there’s one that’s been especially unnerving:
“Did I go too far?”
I’ve mentioned before that the book is a pretty accurate representation of what can be found on VSB. The same language and tone and the same types of jokes, references, anecdotes, and asides Panama and I incorporate daily are found in “Your Degrees…“, and people familiar with us and our work will (hopefully) appreciate it.
Thing is, we tend to employ a certain type of humor that can also very easily anger, offend, and disgust if read with or without context; sh*t that has the potential to hurt and harm instead of heal and be seen as humorous. I especially push this appropriateness envelope. For instance, one of my chapters—I say “my” chapters because, like VSB, the book alternates. Some chapters are written just by me, some just by Panama, and some were a joint effort—include the lines “Your French manicured toes will get spit at and came on” and “I can imagine it being hard to be a rad fem or womanist with c*m on your nose” within a two paragraph span. In the context of the chapter, they make perfect sense and are a perfect fit. But, by themselves they’re, well, offensive as f*ck, and to be honest, I’m kind of struggling to accept the fact that there will be people genuinely offended and hurt by some of the things I say.
And, while I’m no stranger to toeing the “offensive line,” what separates the book from VSB is that the comment’s section here at least gives me an opportunity to explain a misinterpretation or defend a certain stance. The book gives me no such luxury. Once it’s out there it’s gone forever—with my real name and real picture on it!!!—and I’ll go from being an occasional critic to one who’s being actively assessed and critiqued.
Yet, the assessment and critique part isn’t the source of my anxiety. In fact, I can’t f*cking wait to be judged, lauded, ripped, and evaluated. It’s the lack of control that’s keeping me up at night; the fact that once the first book is bought and the first page is read, I’ll have no more absolute say over how my words are interpreted and understood.
Anyway, going back to that “going too far” concept, there’s been another recent (and much more serious) development that has made the power of words and their myriad interpretations a central issue.
As Gabrielle Giffords continues to fight for her life, an argument is brewing that the Tucson mass shooting was partially caused by an anti-government atmosphere created by some of the more outspoken members of the Tea Party. In “The Tea Party and the Tucson Tragedy,” Slate.com’s Jacob Weisberg argues that Sarah Palin and Glenn Beck share a bit of culpability and blame with Jared Loughner:
Often the two issues are blurred together, because if government is illegitimate, rebellion is an appropriate response (hence the Colonial costumes). Conservative entertainers like Glenn Beck and Sarah Palin like to titillate their audiences with hints of justified violence, including frequent reminders that they are armed and dangerous. Palin went so far as to put a target on someone who subsequently got shot. Whether or not the man who fired the gun was inspired by Palin isn’t the point. The point is that you shouldn’t paint targets on people, even in metaphor, or jest.
While I do agree with what he says—inflammatory words create inflammatory environments—I can’t fully get behind the idea that, while they’re definitely antagonistic (some would even say “vile”) people, the Palins, Becks, Sharon Angles, Andrew Breitbarts, and Michelle Malkins of the world should be held even partially accountable for the actions of an unquestionably deranged and nihilistic man. You do that, and every rapper who’s ever uttered the word “gun” should be held accountable for every inner-city murder, and everyone who’s ever produced, starred in, or directed a romantic comedy should be forced to pay the fees for any American’s divorce.
Still, I’m no idiot and neither are they. Each of these pundits and politicians are intelligent enough to know exactly how influential charged words and impassioned rhetoric can be, and my hope is that each of them are still human enough to at least admit to themselves “You know, maybe I went a bit too far that time.” An apology isn’t as necessary as the realization and acceptance of the power of their words and the consequences of their word’s effect on others.
Then again, maybe they’ve already accepted this, and maybe they just don’t care. And, well, maybe I need to learn how do to the same so I can finally get some f*cking sleep.
—The Champ
Any and everything under the sun can be misconstrued and thought of as negative. It’s important to remember intent, and the audience when on that line of offensiveness, but it’s us you’re writing too. We know who you are, and we understand your slighy mysogynistic jests are just barbs to get us to be better VSPeeps, Champs. It’s all love bruh.
“We know who you are, and we understand your slighy mysogynistic jests are just barbs to get us to be better VSPeeps, Champs. It’s all love bruh.”
this made me all verklempt and sh*t
Whoa, hold up there Tes. What exactly makes Champ even “slightly” “misogynistic”? Please explain?
To me, the problem isn’t that we have words and phrases that go “too far but rather, that we have people like yourself who just sling about disparaging terms at those we don’t like and/or don’t agree with. That is the real danger in our time.
So, please, by all means, break it down as to how anything Champ has said, that is indeed “misogynistic”…
I’m all ears…
O.
@ Obie
Now how did I know you’d be all over that? smh
On a sidenote, I kind of like how protective you are of Champ. It’s cute and sh*t. In a completely manly way mind you.
@ Champ
Don’t be all faklempt and sh*t, when I’m tired and tipsy I just say sh*t to get it out there and then come back with a timely retraction after the final throes of the hangover are done with.
What I meant to say is, no reason to be worried. We got your back and sh*t. Relax, relate, release.
Judging from that clusterf**k of a video Palin did today. I would venture to say that she still doesn’t gets it.
In the same breath, I felt bad for our second black president today. To go to the hospital and see Rep. Giffords lay up there with a gunshot wound to the head and then visit the rest of the wound and grieving families. Then he gave that speech it made me a little teary eyed. And I am really not a emotional guy.
My favorite part of his speech was: “We recognize our own mortality, and we are reminded that in the fleeting time we have on this Earth, what matters is not wealth, or status, or power, or fame but rather, how well we have loved and what small part we have played in making the lives of other people better.”
“Judging from that clusterf**k of a video Palin did today. I would venture to say that she still doesn’t gets it.”
i’m still trying to figure out if she’s legitimately stupid or just shrewd.
Someone needs to take away her thesaurus.
Peace, Love and Chocolate
Tiffany
Exactly. “Blood Libel” huh Sarah? Really though. I’m really hoping she wins the 2012 Republican nomination.
LOL, but if the media hadn’t explained it, how many people would have even knew what the hell she was talking about? We’d would have just been like “Whatever Sarah…”
” I’m really hoping she wins the 2012 Republican nomination.”
LOL I’ve been saying the same for a while now.
i think she’s a stupid shrewd
me too. she’s shrewd in her stupidity. it’s kind of admirable actually.
Its your evolution of going from a consumer to a producer. I certainly hope you directed book buyers here. Then they can get some context of the Champness and Panamaness that is in the book w/o context.
Congrats on the book. Eventually you and Panama will be on Oprah and then your lives will change.
Co-sign on the congrats. Looking forward to the book.
thanks and sh*t. and yeah, hopefully the big ass “very smart brothas” on the front cover might bring some people to the actual blog
Palin just KILLED me when she dug a deeper hole by using the phrase “blood libel.” And seriously? About a Jewish woman? And in a situation when a child was killed? That’s the apocalypse of having no sense.
One word: dumba**. I wouldn’t be surprised when she reap what she has sowed.
Palin is such a f*ckn idiot the fact that this woman has any influence at all baffles me.
She has influence b/c our country is full of idiots.
And it’s not just her.
There are people on both sides of the political aisle who are dimwitted and uninformed yet people worship them like gods.
Once we accept that the majority of the world is not always that intelligent and looks for very simple, and sometimes inflammatory and hateful, concepts to glom onto, we’ll be in a much better place.
AMEN!!
Very well spoken. Co-sign.
let the choir sang
idiocracy
“Once we accept that the majority of the world is not always that intelligent and looks for very simple, and sometimes inflammatory and hateful, concepts to glom onto, we’ll be in a much better place.”
lol, we’ll be in a much better place after realizing there’s no hope???
love the word ‘glom’.
after these previous elections i was embarrassed for America. that Palin had even the slightest bit of influence on how people voted. its sick.
“Once we accept that the majority of the world is not always that intelligent and looks for very simple, and sometimes inflammatory and hateful, concepts to glom onto, we’ll be in a much better place”
i’m guessing you mean we’ll be in a better place mentally and emotionally? because what you just described (which is true) actually puts us in a pretty bleak place
Seriously, do her supporters really, truly believe that she is capable of running this country? I have yet to hear her speak intelligently on…well, anything. Her speeches are 100% rhetoric.
From what I have viewed, Palin has no authentic opinion and no plan to get anything she wants accomplished. Her support and her view is based on criticism and attacks which does not build her up at all in terms of ideas and constructive things to build policy and the country as a whole. She reminds me of a hurt bully who lashes out to prevent from someone noticing that they are not as all together as they should be. I am cautious of people who constantly spew rhetoric with no substance. Plus, she quit her job, working for the people of her beloved state that elected her to get shine. She is not one in the trenches rolling up her sleeves and doing the research, the thinking, the meat and potatoes of moving things in a positive direction. Plus, on more than one occasion she has shown to be a hypocrite.
@Kimmy and everyone else, that was an agreement.
Very well said. This is what deeply puzzles me about her large following…as you said, she has NO authentic opinion and no plan of action…just catch phrase after catch phrase.
i’m convinced that she doesn’t understand that term or it’s origins. and, unfortunately, neither do her followers. and that’s what scares me the most about her popularity and mass influence.
I agree. Without knowing the history of the term it sounds powerful.
I’m starting to think that her speech writer is a liberal in disguise.
That would explain why she sounds so dumb when she speaks. That would be the ultimate if we found out that, indeed, her speech writer is a liberal…and was the same speech writer for GWB.
Sorry, don’t agree with this right ‘chere. These pundits shouldn’t be charged with crimes, but they definitely bear part of the responsibility. The shooter may have have eventually harmed someone, but who he harmed and the when/why/where/how can be traced to a concerted effort by the right-wing to create a toxic environment that justifies violence perpetrated on those who disagree with them.
The charged words, as you so mildly put it, weren’t just directed at “the left” in general. These words were directed at specific people, often with specific suggestions (giving out a person’s address, or office location) of when/where “someone” should “reload… take up their arms… and get their country back…” It’s like a mob boss telling an underling how to execute a hit when he knows he’s been bugged by law enforcement.
And, quite frankly, it is similar to rap and rom coms. Propogators of both fallacies should not be “charged” – ie criminally for the murders in the inner city (unless of course, it is relevant to a specific criminal case) nor financially for failed relationships and marriages. But both of these things – the music and the movies – contribute to an environment that creates toxicitiy that harms our lives and our cultures. Both negatively influence people’s behavior and reify social hierachies the cause oppression.
“contribute to an environment that creates toxicitiy that harms our lives and our cultures”
Does it? I think reasonably sane and intelligent people can make a separation. Children being an exception, which is why parent’s are supposed to monitor their music, discuss violence with them, etc.
If a politician’s inflammatory words, a song’s violent lyrics or a movie’s impossibly unrealistic happy ending clouds an individual’s judgment, then I argue they are either a) a child b) dimwitted or c) mentally challenged.
Being willfully obtuse, we are. Nothing exists in a vacuum. People reflect the biases, standards, beliefs, and “acceptable behaviors” of the culture in which they live. These things are formed by the messages that are reinforced over and over and over again through that culture’s media. There are certain messages that are privileged over others, and those messages can cause harm, whether the listeners are children, dimwitted, mentally challenged, or none of the above.
“Does it? I think reasonably sane and intelligent people can make a separation”
iono about that. i think even the reasonably sane and intelligent are more influenced by the climate than any inherent logic or moral compass. in fact, some could even argue that there is no inherent logic or moral compass. if the climate is accepting of the type of behavior or mindset being pushed in music, movies, TV etc. then people become desensitized to the madness.
but im not really sure whos fault that actually is.
“If a politician’s inflammatory words, a song’s violent lyrics or a movie’s impossibly unrealistic happy ending clouds an individual’s judgment, then I argue they are either a) a child b) dimwitted or c) mentally challenged.”
are judgment is so clouded by these things its not even funny. all of us. not just A,B, and C. all of us.
our*
“in fact, some could even argue that there is no inherent logic or moral compass. if the climate is accepting of the type of behavior or mindset being pushed in music, movies, TV etc. then people become desensitized to the madness.”
100% agree. If anyone reflects on the social culture in history there were practices, customs and behaviors that were accepted that would NEVER fly today. And vice versa. A woman showing her bare leg in the 1800′s would have been consider a harlot. Now, in many western cultures, a woman can become a stripper to make a living.
As society changes, things that were once seen as vile, violent or just in poor taste transform into things that are considered in vogue…or at least tolerated.
All that to say, I agree with that assessment.
love the mob boss comparison…cause some of these fools believe that they are “made” just by watching a program religiously.
“The shooter may have have eventually harmed someone, but who he harmed and the when/why/where/how can be traced to a concerted effort by the right-wing to create a toxic environment that justifies violence perpetrated on those who disagree with them.”
thing is, this guy already contacted giffords as early as 2007—while Bush was still in office, and years before the “take back the country” remove. his crazy-ass wheels where already spinning then.
back to your point, though. this concept—how accountable should people be held for their words—is something I’ve gone back and forth about for at least a decade. thing is, are people like palin and beck fanning the flames/creating the environment, or are they just representatives of a feeling/mindset; figureheads if you will?
personally, i think they’re just opportunists who felt a certain tide, and managed to get ahead of it. they’re ciphers, giving voice to a feeling that a lot of “regular american” people (read: “white”) have, and i dont know if they can be held accountable if they’re just reflecting and parroting feelings.
like i said before, though, i’ve gone back and forth about this. ask me again a month from now and my answer might be different.
“they’re ciphers, giving voice to a feeling that a lot of “regular american” people (read: “white”) have, and i dont know if they can be held accountable if they’re just reflecting and parroting feelings.”
while it’s true that they give voice to what people already feel, they are the leaders who unify those people. i wouldn’t consider what they’re doing to be merely reflecting and parroting…they’re also instigating. rallying up the troops if you will. like you, i’m not sure how responsible they are for grown folks’ actions, but they do play a significant role and should recognize that
“personally, i think they’re just opportunists who felt a certain tide, and managed to get ahead of it. they’re ciphers, giving voice to a feeling that a lot of “regular american” people (read: “white”) have, and i dont know if they can be held accountable if they’re just reflecting and parroting feelings.”
I agree with this to a point. Sure their views may have roots in xenophobia, nationalism and good old fashion racism, which they clearly did not invent, but their views and opinions create and intensify these views in places they other wise would not have existed.
In your view, the existence of a heightened sense of xenophobia make the cultural climate we exist in an inevitability. I don’t. I think pundits like this give shape to those feelings and turn them into ideas. Ideas are more powerful than feelings and more persistent. Ideas allow you to rationalize. Ideas give the semblance of substance reason.
Those feelings were there in the 80s, probably more strongly than they exist today. But when Raegen turned those feelings into the ideas of Big Government and wasteful spending and Tax Cuts and Raegenonmics giving a voice to the (white) silent majority, they were infinitely more effective (in spite of logic).
The fact that they bridged the Gap between those baser impulses and rhetoric for personal gain makes it more, not less, culpable in my eyes. It speaks to a level of understanding and premeditation of their actions.
If conservative rhetoric sent Loughner, the AZ shooter, over the edge, tell me who or what drove Eric Harris and Dylan Klebold, Seung-Hui Cho – and others like them – to the brink?
I haven’t taken a look at Loughner’s medical records but I’m pretty confident in saying he was mentally unbalanced. Any person who shoots up a crowded grocery store is a ticking time bomb; any little thing could have and would have set him off. I don’t care if he eventually points authorities to a website with the exact words he claims motivated his actions. We all know that, for the sane, it takes more than incendiary comments to drive us to mass murder.
Freedom of speech is a valuable thing; we are blessed as a nation and as individuals to be able to express our view points openly and without fear of persecution. Sometimes that means people will say crazy, often offensive and inflammatory things. With every blessing comes a curse.
To blame the conservatives for this crime (especially when they can be blamed for so many other things) is akin to blaming gangster rap on the problems in urban communities. It’s a reflection of the problems and it may glorify violence…but it is not the cause.
To blame the conservatives for this crime (especially when they can be blamed for so many other things) is akin to blaming gangster rap on the problems in urban communities.
Kind of an aside: but can I get Ice Cube at a Tea Party rally with an AK-47 screaming “Second Amendment in this b*tch!” I just want to see the reaction.
“Kind of an aside: but can I get Ice Cube at a Tea Party rally with an AK-47 screaming “Second Amendment in this b*tch!” I just want to see the reaction.”
If you make that happen I want tickets ~JS
+1
Front row seats and please provide snacks. Mmkay, thanks, bye!
I agree. Yet, I must be honest, although it is not conservative’s fault, I appreciate that it has caused some folks on both sides of the aisle to fall back and evaluate their political discourse because ish got out of hand prior to this tragic turn of events. It’s not their fault, but I would be lying if I said I didn’t kinda’ enjoy that people have to put on some level of decorum and be mindful and sensitive to someone elses feelings, trauma, and mourning period for the time being.
I Am Your People, that comment gave me joy. Yessss! (I’m ignent…especially after working late, so forgive me)
Oh, and although it wasn’t their fault it was telling when Palin pulled that graphic of the zones, the “hitlist”, and the “crosshair” gun targets. Somehow what took several months to pull from your website(s) was pulled instantaneously once news of this tragic event came out. Now don’t get me wrong, I agree with V.E.G’s point and it is truth. Yet those actions made my side-eye skrong and made me kiss my teeth like a West Indian (luv to ya’ll).
On another note: Champ, I totally respect you being really honest in this post. I respect, understand, sympathize… all that. Anytime you make a product for public consumption, opinion, ridicule….Yes, I totally get it.
“Yet, I must be honest, although it is not conservative’s fault, I appreciate that it has caused some folks on both sides of the aisle to fall back and evaluate their political discourse because ish got out of hand prior to this tragic turn of events. It’s not their fault, but I would be lying if I said I didn’t kinda’ enjoy that people have to put on some level of decorum and be mindful and sensitive to someone elses feelings, trauma, and mourning period for the time being.”
***nodding head***
“Freedom of speech is a valuable thing; we are blessed as a nation and as individuals to be able to express our view points openly and without fear of persecution. Sometimes that means people will say crazy, often offensive and inflammatory things. With every blessing comes a curse.”
This may come as a shock to some… but I have azzhole moments… those times when I say what I think and I don’t give a f*c/k about the consequences…
Yeezy taught me.
Agree or disagree it is my right as an American to express myself… the question is do I go too far.
Well that depends on the intended destination… because with very few and rare exceptions I don’t really think that it is possible to go too far.
The thing I think we are responding to is that our free expression is more immediate today. Our modern culture allows us to simultaneously self select our environments and broaden our reach to share our thoughts and experiences
And I think that part of the problem is that people don’t like to have their ideas/values challenged.
If we agree, you are free to express all day long but if you say something that is thought to be crazy, offensive or inflammatory then you should be censored…
To this I say no.
Can you, should you be held responsible for what you say… sure if what you say is not factual and causes harm… that is what our libel and slander laws are for.
But I think that we have blurred the line between truth, fact and opinion. Only facts are provable, truth and opinion are governed only by perception and moral constraints.
It is therefore up to the individual to decide how far is too far in exercising their freedom of expression… and to answer their own conscience with regards to any aftermath that may result.
But it has to begin and end with the individual because today its the Tea Party and tomorrow its you…
But no on ever thinks its going to be them ~JS
Jhane,
Have you completed your homework assignment – watch John McWhorter and Michael Eric Dyson on the topic of Hip Hop on CSPAN? You don’t need a TV you can get it online at their website.
Looking forward to hearing your report….
O.
I totally agree with this. To point to Palin et. al. is like saying if they hadn’t spoken, this boy wouldn’t have done something like this. Within every population there are deviants. Some deviance we can deter, some we can’t. There is no resolution. Sometimes horrible sh*t like this just happens.
“To blame the conservatives for this crime (especially when they can be blamed for so many other things) is akin to blaming gangster rap on the problems in urban communities. It’s a reflection of the problems and it may glorify violence…but it is not the cause.”
Palin has nothing to do with the AZ shooter but I want to offer a diff perspective on what you said above. We can’t blame conservatives for crimes but I most certainly will blame gangster rap for a few problems our young people are having. Why? Because it’s one thing to talk about ideas that may spark a mentally disturbed man to commit a crime then it’s another thing to actually say you endorse crime because it made you rich. Gangster rappers endorse crime, so yes I will blame them if they create a few criminals. Just like I’d blame Hitler for creating the deaths of millions because he openly endorsed killing Jews. Words do hurt and affect people in many ways.
“Gangster rappers endorse crime, so yes I will blame them if they create a few criminals. Just like I’d blame Hitler for creating the deaths of millions because he openly endorsed killing Jews”
apples and hand grenades. opportunistically speaking about conditions in the community isn’t the same as devising and implementing a system to exterminate a group of people.
Champ,
You make a good point, but in fairness I see where SFG is coming from as well, though I don’t necessarily but it. I would say to her, that for her thesis to hold any water, she would have to prove a direct correlation between Gangsta Rap lyrics and violent street crime.
So, what do you say, SFG? Up to the challenge of making your case?
O.
O-Dawg, I know you ready for me.
I mentioned gangster rap because the influence is almost undeniable. Look at how many young boys cite these rappers as their actual inspirations. Before gangster rap, people sold drugs to make money, period. If it was in their community and they needed to make a profit, they did it. I’m no street crime expert but I got some
old g’s in my fam. Now granted Jamaica is a diff place but what I understand is it was a way to make money and sustain a type of life. Almost no one ever talked about it. Then rap came in and glorified it. Gangster rappers started rapping about selling drugs, flashing cash, and putting their success in their videos. Then BAM! all of a sudden, it’s a life style. Now drug dealers and other criminals are trying to get their stunt and bling on. Now it’s bragging rights. Now people who weren’t even selling dope before are trying to get into the dope game. Everyone wants to be seen and I think rap music played a huge part in that. Just look at small things like all the terminology we use that we get from rap songs, the clothes young people wear, the alchohol we drink that is advertised in rap songs…you think this wouldn’t spill over into crime? Absolutely. This is the power of words. There is nothing more tempting for a young boy to sit broke in his house watching a man who looks like him flashing money on the screen and saying he’s a hustler homey. Cause to be honest, if you go into the hood, it’s mostly dirty. TV and music are the main culprits of perpetuating the bling myth. Just my opinion. I could find some stats to back me but I don’t feel like it. lolWell said. I do believe that there is a line between saying what you’ve done and then glamorizing it to make what you did an attractive option to someone else in a similar situation. I do believe that’s what rap that talks about money, cash, hoes and the drug game does.
SFG,
In light of comments made by you elsewhere in this thread, where you assert that we Americans have “too many rights”, might I suggest you visit Bangkok? I hear it’s pretty nice this time of year:
http://sagatsays.wordpress.com/2011/01/11/thailand-cracks-down-on-its-africans/
Yes, it’s something of a plug; the The Obsidian Files launches on the morrow(!), and things like the aforementioned topic will get the full airing it deserves. Check it out, its a kind of preview as to what you can expect over at the O-Files…
I’ll be back to address specifically your retort above. Stay tuned…
O.
SFG,
OK, I’m back. Again, I see what you’re saying, but its really fuzzy and it requires one to make leaps of logic and faith that may not be all that great of an idea.
For example, take the fact that violent crime has actually been falling, not rising, since the early 90s, per the DOJ stats and FBI crime survey studies. Mind you, the 90s was when Gangsta Rap was booming. How do you reconcile the two, per your argument?
Now, can the former play a role in the latter? Sure – but tha’s just it, you’d have to make an iron clad case for it, and to date, you have not. What you’ve made is a, and here I go using a bunch of $10 words, LOL, post hoc ergo proctor hoc argument – Gangsta Rap causes crime because we’re seeing more and more young Black Men glamorizing and glorifying violent street life and drug culture. That may be true, but simply saying its so, based on two things happening around the same time, doesn’t a case make. Correlation does not mean causation, and all that.
Then, you would have to grapple with stuff like Freakonomics, which has an entire section devoted to the question of drugs selling and whatnot. You would also have to contend with the dramatic fall in violent street crime in NYC in the 90s, which is the birthplace of Hip Hop. Even in gang infested LA, deaths and the like went down. All of this, while Dr. Dre, for example and to name one of but many luminaries in the Hip Hop world, was at his height.
Do you see what I’m saying here?
Holla back
O.
Don’t mean to butt in, but I think you make a very valid point about correlation not necessarily amounting to causation.
I see your point. Maybe it was a coincidence. Of course I’m not prepared to do an actual study or spend an hour looking up stats like you did. I could be wrong, but I believe I’m right. I do see a direct relation to music and how we behave. I may not be able to prove it to your liking though.
I’m not saying that gangster rappers and hitler are the same.
-_O Let’s think broader and not specifics por favor. It’s an idea I’m speaking of. The idea that anyone who has a mass audience, (whether it be a rapper or an extremist) and endorses crime (whatever it may be), will be to blame if others go out and commit crime…not sole blame but blame none the less. This can be said for just about anything. If I own a popular magazine and I put rainbow sweaters on the cover, then rises the sale of rainbow sweaters. With any leadership comes responsibility in what you put out. I’ll address why I mentioned gangster rap to Obsidian cause it might get lengthy.
This is @ Champ
You can’t honestly be comparing music to Hitler.
Hitler and the Nazi party did more than just print pamphlets about killing Jews. They actually went out and did it.
If Ice T had shot some cops…that’s one thing.
But he made a song about shooting cops.
I luv ya…but you don’t see the difference there?!!!
I’m not comparing music to hitler. Those are examples I used to back my theory that people with a mass audience can and will affect others with their words.
Luv ya too. lol I do see the difference in the specific actions. Again I’m talking about the message in itself. Rapping about selling drugs and actually selling drugs can have the same consequences if I’m preaching to an audience of young impressionables. I can prove this. How many rappers that rap about selling drugs and killing folk ACTUALLY sold drugs and killed folk? Very few. Yet millions of people listen their words like gospel. Just sayin.
I agree. The shooter was a sick man, period. However, words do have power and it is unfortunate that more people in a position to reach and potentially influence a lot of people do not think enough about this. Maybe if they did they would exercise their right to freedom of speech more responsibly. This is part of the inherent conumdrum of a democratic society. I think of it this way, if I am ever accused of a crime of which I am innocent, I will cherish the presumption of innocence and my right to a fair trial. However, if there is someone everyone thinks (or knows) is guilty especially if the crime is particularly offensive, then the presumption of innocence doesn’t seem to be such a great thing.
I don’t know what to think about this situation anymore but I will say this I am confused as he!! about our country’s gun laws. How can someone with a clear mental instability get access to a weapon walk into a Walmart (the same place folks buy groceries) and buy bullets and just do something like this. Meanwhile Plaxico Burress is still sitting in a jail cell doing a bid for gun possession (and shooting himself). I know this is completely off topic but can we please get some more consistent gun laws in this country too many innocent lives taken at the hands of gun violence and it makes me sick to my stomach.
It’s about location. Dumb a** number 1 (Loughner) purchased his weapons in Arizona where the gun laws are minimal. Dumb a** number 2 was in possession of a weapon in NYC where they don’t play.
Gun laws will never be consistent without amending the second amendment and the tenth amendment. Do the gun laws need to be changed? Yes! (Mind you I’m all for owning certain guns. I have no need for a M-60.) Both men should have none better but didn’t. Consistency would be awesome but folks like the NRA will never let that happen unless we invoke some campaign finance reform, which also will never happen.
This is what makes me so mad about politics. Politicians pander to voting bases to stay in office. I assume some of this is needed; possibly giving in to one lobby will allow a politician to make needed changes in other issues. It so often feels like changes don’t get made because the companies/industries with the money don’t want it to happen; it’s no longer about what’s best for the nation (if it ever was) but what’s best for a few with power.
They know their power. They are testing it with every word they utter. When you have that type of power, you have to know what to do with it. Sarah’s graphic could have easily replaced the targets for ballots. She could have easily replaced them with anything other than a representation of violence.
The thing that gets me is how Democrats will come out talking about how BOTH sides need to quiet the violent rhetoric. I haven’t, as of late, seen nary Democrat elude to violence to get their points across. Stop trying to act like it’s everyone.
*moment of Detroit Black code follows*
Right now, Palin has a hand full of spades. Everyone knows it. And as she threatens to throw out the big joker and cause all out red-neck riots in the streets, the logical people (left and right) are too busy trying to fight her spades and big joker with a politically correct 4 of diamonds and low clubs. I say reach across the table and hit her ass with a Hennessy bottle because that’s the only message she and her ilk understand.
Hit ‘submit’ too soon.
Dude is crazy. Maybe he wasn’t directly moved by the rhetoric, but others are being encouraged by it and by him. This rhetoric is messing with the whole civil climate of our country. We can disagree without the threat of civil unrest being just under the surface of every word.
Well whatever. I can’t stand that Palin woman. But I know that she and her followers are just dumb enough to be more dangerous than we are giving them credit for. OK, for real…Must…Go…To…Bed…Now…
This spades analogy is perfect.
I believe there have been some not so joking convos on both sides about ‘offing’ her.
No jokes about it. The Repubs needs to knock her credibility before she ruins the voting block. They already seeing her and the tea party forcing repubs to be ‘teabagger crazy’ or out of a job.
I’ve heard numerous Democratic radio and tv hosts talk out the sides of their mouths, wishing death on people, etc.
I think that many on the left only want to look at the ish the Republicans do/say and condemn it and we choose ignore the stuff that’s going on in our own party. I stand closer to the center (but still on the left) so I o_O everyone.
i agree with everything except this part:
“I haven’t, as of late, seen nary Democrat elude to violence to get their points across.”
if you’re talking about democratic politicians, I don’t know if I’ve seen any of them elude to violence. but, if you’re talking about popular and influential pundits and party members, i’ve seen and heard that numerous times
I can’t remember the exact quote or even where I got it from, but it went something like (paraphrasing): “People are uncomfortable when you tell them new things. They like ‘olds’ and not ‘news’; they want to hear what they think they already know is true.” It’s confirmation bias.
Working under the assumption that the dude got his fuel from the actions of Sarah Palin or whoever, that guy was going to shoot those people regardless of Palin doing whatever she did. Should people like Glenn Beck and Sarah Palin and Rush Limbaugh be held accountable? Maybe… after all, they’re just fear-mongers – they’re talking to people like Loughner. But if they weren’t saying and doing the things they were, then someone else would be. This guy would’ve tuned in to whoever was slinging what he wanted to believe, be it someone with clout like a politician or just the guy down at the newspaper stand.
I agree with your points here.
As much as I despise what the Palins, Becks, and Limbaughs represent, the deep ignorance and hatred that still runs through this country, they are mostly just providing the straw men that their viewing/listening public demands.
Crazy people don’t think they’re crazy and they like it when they here another voice outside of their own head say the same things that they believe are true. However, crazy people don’t need a reason or righteous cause to be crazy.
And if Palin has as much power as she and some others seem to believe, why wasn’t everyone on her “hit list” been targeted at some point before this? If anything, trying to lay blame at her feet will only rally her supporters around her and possibly give her some real power and a real chance to affect this country.
Cosign on this entire post
“Should people like Glenn Beck and Sarah Palin and Rush Limbaugh be held accountable? Maybe… after all, they’re just fear-mongers – they’re talking to people like Loughner. But if they weren’t saying and doing the things they were, then someone else would be. This guy would’ve tuned in to whoever was slinging what he wanted to believe, be it someone with clout like a politician or just the guy down at the newspaper stand.”
Chapman shot John Lennon and Hinkley shot Ronald Regan… the explanation for their actions they said could be found in the same book… The Catcher in the Rye.
As comforting as it is to think that the problem would go away if we remove or censor what seems to be obvious vitriolic rhetoric… it doesn’t.
Because for these people it isn’t what is said… it is their distorted perception or interpretation of what is said… because it is filtered through various levels of mental illness. ~JS
“Because for these people it isn’t what is said… it is their distorted perception or interpretation of what is said… because it is filtered through various levels of mental illness.”
Exactly. Depending on the mental illness, most affect one’s ability to reason. Almost all are out of touch with reality in some fashion.
“But if they weren’t saying and doing the things they were, then someone else would be. This guy would’ve tuned in to whoever was slinging what he wanted to believe, be it someone with clout like a politician or just the guy down at the newspaper stand.”
i agree. like chris rock said; whatever happened to crazy? sometimes people are just f*cking nuts, and it’s not really anyone’s fault (other than the people who didn’t diagnose him and get him some help). also, if you believe that some people are “good,” then you have to also believe that some people are just evil people.
I want to marry your comment I love it so much.
D’accord!
I agree. He would simply have shot another group of people, I think he was just very mentally ill.
“While I do agree with what he says—inflammatory words create inflammatory environments—I can’t fully get behind the idea that, while they’re definitely antagonistic (some would even say “vile”) people, the Palins, Becks, Sharon Angles, Andrew Breitbarts, and Michelle Malkins of the world should be held even partially accountable for the actions of an unquestionably deranged and nihilistic man. You do that, and every rapper who’s ever uttered the word “gun” should be held accountable for every inner-city murder, and everyone who’s ever produced, starred in, or directed a romantic comedy should be forced to pay the fees for any American’s divorce.”
You’ve been reading my mind, haven’t you. I was just talking about this. I think it is a mistake to “blame” them and/or attribute this lunatics actions when no factual line an be drawn linking his actions specifically to her (Palin). What does disappoint me, though is her current stance which seems to be playing the role of victim right now. I’m not a Palin stan but is it just me who is thinking hey lady, its not about you right now. How about just saying that the “cross-hairs” or “surveyor tool,” whatever they want to call it now, were removed because it would be in poor taste to leave it up in light of the violent and unconscionable act that took place? How about just focusing on consoling those actually victimized this past weekend?
I do think however that they should be aware that their words could easily be interpreted as inciting violence and they may want to rethink their strategy. Because if it was this easy to link them to this act with no factual basis, how would they feel if he had written a manifesto that quoted them (the Palins, Becks, etc.) and then went out and committed this violent act. Yes he is mental unsound but what if he was just an extremist fanatic with no mental instability in his history. Not all criminals who commit violent acts are medically crazy, some are just socially crazy. (No socially sane person takes a life like that.) What if the link was real, it still wouldn’t make them responsible for the act, but we would all likely say, “that might have been avoided if we would just learn how to disagree respectfully.”
My point is we should be able to disagree ideologically without all the hateful, violent imagery and rhetoric.
“I’m not a Palin stan but is it just me who is thinking hey lady, its not about you right now. How about just saying that the “cross-hairs” or “surveyor tool,” whatever they want to call it now, were removed because it would be in poor taste to leave it up in light of the violent and unconscionable act that took place? How about just focusing on consoling those actually victimized this past weekend?”
I think actions speak louder than words and I like to know who people really are.
The reality is that dingbat slut girl actually has political credibility… but the longer she keeps her crazy in the public eye the more people she turns off… even if they may agree philosophically agree.
And those align themselves with her will be given the side eye as well… and as someone already pointed out forces a valuable division of the Republican party.
I want her to keep flying her freak flag so that people know who they are voting for ~JS
I agree with you! But u know hiphop has been blamed for alot of things that went wrong in our community.Marlyn manson or nirvana I think,had ffingers pointed towards them after the Columbine shooting,the blame game seems to be America’s favorite past time! I would hate to sound insensitive but the mobilization of human,financial and logistical ressources because some white woman got shot makes me uncomfortable and disgusted.The life of a congresswoman seem to be more important,so much for that born equal.Hopefully when Obama
returns from ARizona he will find time to also meet with the families of the 11 people who have been killed in as many days in PG county,Maryland(insert sarcasm here!). I hear they want to change federal gun laws now,things that make you go hmm!
Sorry folks but this incident doesnt move me
In the least bit,it only highlights the class and racial inequality that is being perpetuated by the people who are voted for,and fed by us.She didnt deserve to get shot and so did the thousands of other victims of gun violence.Her life isnt any more valuable than theirs.
I hear you but I think there is more to than just that “some white woman got shot.” I think the point is this incident amplified the ongoing discussion about the violent rhetoric and imagery being espoused by the far right. Remember when those congressional offices where being vandalized and the conversation got a bit louder then but I don’t recall anyone actually losing their life. Now several lives have been lost and they are still making excuses for their language. Its not okay. It is not appropriate nor is it necessary.
And they had the same discussions about rounds per clip after Columbine. That debate won’t go anywhere now either, not that I think it is really relevant.
As for what’s been happening here in PG 13 murders in less than 13 days this year, yeah it’s crazy. But let’s be real. The majority of those murders were a result of the lifestyles those individuals led. its more than class and race at work. Most of those murders were not law abiding citizens minding their day to day business. And while I don’t believe their life is any less valuable, you and I both know this country will not cry for them. I will however, because at least 3 of those murders hit a little too close to home for me and could have really impacted my life personally. I do not believe they should have lost their life no matter what they were doing. Life is too precious to lose over that nonsense. But, no, the country will not mourn them.
I’m glad I’m not just an insensitive bast@rd. I would be lying to say it doesn’t move me; it’s sad. There’s no denying it. But I’m conflicted with the spectacle of it all. People get killed everyday. Recently where a live, a man murdered his girlfriend and their 3 children. There was no national moment of silence for that. There were no congressional resolutions related to it. It’s the political “motions” and I don’t care for it.
“I would hate to sound insensitive but the mobilization of human,financial and logistical ressources because some white woman got shot makes me uncomfortable and disgusted”
it wasn’t just some white woman, though. sh*t, if it was a black politician, judge, and little girl (among others) who were gunned down like this, it would have been much, much, much worse.
All I ask is that you guys never lose your common sense and wit when dealing with the loads of new fans that will start trolling the site. I can’t even enjoy being a Gundam fan in large ventures because fandom can get petty and demand weird stuff. I would suck if you guys got a load of ridiculous questions or flame mail over book. (Although, it would make for some funny topics.)
To be honest, we as a nation do not hold people accountable for what they say enough. In hip hop alone, many famous people have been killed because of the same rhetoric. It’s bad enough seeing Sarah Palin make this all about her or Westboro Baptist church planning to protest the nine-year old victim funeral. Why are we making excusing this behavior? I wonder. There should be as much distain for this rhetoric as there is for people who smoke. Now I’m hear that handgun sales went up after the shooting, certain congressmen are making bills where you have to be thousand feet away from them or they should carry guns into congress.
WRONG LESSON OF THE DAY CONGRESS.
Ugh, it’s only January and the amount of fail is fogging up my glasses
“To be honest, we as a nation do not hold people accountable for what they say enough. In hip hop alone, many famous people have been killed because of the same rhetoric.”
I said the same thing. There isn’t enough accountability in this world we live in. We don’t see the details. You wouldn’t believe how many people who commit crimes have shown early signs or gone through the system multiple times. We like to excuse everything.
“There isn’t enough accountability in this world we live in. We don’t see the details. You wouldn’t believe how many people who commit crimes have shown early signs or gone through the system multiple times. We like to excuse everything.”
It’s because our culture nowadays is all wrapped up in giving people chance after chance. Sometimes, people are f-ed up and will always be f-ed up. Give them a chance, they’ll eff it up. We’re seen as insensitive for putting the smackdown on people. God forbid we ruin their chances of becoming awesome members of society (rolls eyes).
This Loughner guy was seriously disturbed and everyone just looked the other way. Didn’t want to impede on his rights to be an effing nut, I guess. It’s so sad. A 9 year old little girl is dead because everyone kept passing the buck on this guy.
I’ve said it before but we got too many d@mn rights in this country. Yeah I said it. lol Even men in jail live better than alot of men in the street. Most heinous crimes are committed by repeat offenders. You’re right, we give way too many chances.
I’m about to get real personal right here.
My 17 year old cousin is dangerous and has been caught doing sexual things with little kids. Now…his mother wants to excuse, blame, deny and coddle the situation and that has lead to him becoming more dangerous than ever. When I go home I rarely see him…because he’s usually locked up. He’s turning 18 this year and I’m sure he’s gonna do his first real prison stint shortly after.
My point….the family doesn’t allow him to come around and his mother hates us for it. But, if you can see crazy and you already know what crazy can do, why would you invite it in? That’s the issue. People see things and try to do the whole “what made him that way” time after time when really…after a certain point, it doesn’t matter why they are the way they are. It just is…then the point becomes what do you do about it to keep it away from you. Unapologetically at that.
Connecting that to the situation at hand with the AZ shooter, his crazy didn’t just emerge last week. It was there. I’m sure folks saw it and choose to deny, excuse, blame or coddle him. The same thing my cousin’s mother does with him.
And in America, we love to do the whole pyscho-babble. Because every life deserves a chance. But my point in this all is that not every life deserves a chance…and then another, and then yet another. It may seem wrong to say that, but even God has warned us that evil exists, so who are we to dismiss that as untrue? That’s what the “we are the world, give hope 74 chances” mentality does. It denies the true essence of a person’s evil.
And as we can see, that action is dangerous for many, many reasons.
I’m sorry about your cousin. It hurts to have someone close to you who is mentally ill. I agree with everything you said. What’s sad is that the ignorance towards mental disease is so common in the Black community. We don’t believe in psychology or psychologists. We don’t believe in talking about our problems. We like to sweep it under the rug. Yes this is a generalization but when I say we I mean majority. I never for the life of me understood why we don’t like to address issues within our family. I think another reason why the prisons are so overrun with minorities (apart from police profiling and a flawed system) is the fact that we don’t address problems with our children early on. Many of the criminals need help they never got or are the product of a bad childhood of some sort. Call it pride but it’s hurting us. We just don’t get help. Now talking about people in general, they may go through the system but hardly stay there. Another thing that’s so flawed about our mental health system is the fact that patients have ALOT of rights. Jeffery’s parents or friends could know very well he is ill and do nothing about it. Unless he shows clear signs of danger to himself, (which would be him making threats which is hard to prove unless he says directly in front of a psychiatrist or law enforcement), you can’t commit him. Also, if the patient doesn’t have money or the family doesn’t have money, he’s screwed. Psychiatric treatment is VERY expensive. If you go to a state run hospital, funding is low so they kick people out at the first sight of a smile.
Ditto. And don’t forget to mention that if the parents are divorced and the non-custodial parent wants to commit their child or get them enrolled in some sort of program, they aren’t allowed to do so. Only the custodial parent has the right to do it. Which is sad when one parent is a complete enabler and the other wants to legitimately get their child help.
I’m sorry to hear about your cousin and I hope that somehow he gets help soon. I am not sure why, but it seems that within our community, generally speaking, there is a lot of shame associated with mental illness and I think this hinders both the sick person and their family from seeking help. I think in part because we (speaking loosely) associated mentally ill with being “crazy”. I know some mentall illnesses such as schizophrenia are challenging because once the person is on medication and doing better, he/she feels better and tends to think they don’t need medication, but I think many other emotional and mental disorders are very treatable. I also think because of the shame associated with mental illness in our community often leads to “self-medicating” with drug use, which, in turn, often leads right to prison. At least where I live in Florida, they routinely send people to prison for having even residue in a crack pipe.
Where in Florida do you live? I live in Ft. Lauderdale.
I’m in Hollywood. Broward County does not play with it.
“All I ask is that you guys never lose your common sense and wit when dealing with the loads of new fans that will start trolling the site”
yeah. the moderation filter will be overdrive. sh*t, we might even have to start paying liz and liz’s boobs
As the Champster put it “You do that, and every rapper who’s ever uttered the word “gun” should be held accountable for every inner-city murder,”
There is one GLARINGLY important difference; The rappers DO NOT POINT PEOPLE OUT BY NAME. Then when the person gets shot, avoid speculation and criticism.
Hasn’t rap and video games and violence in movies been on the chopping block for atleast the last 20 sumtn years? Constantly in the news and considered “vile” and “reprehensible” for its content. I see how you draw the lines, and the diplomacy in your effort but honestly, letting them off without any serious reprimand is akin to learned helplessness.
that is the EXACT DIFFERENCE
“Hasn’t rap and video games and violence in movies been on the chopping block for atleast the last 20 sumtn years?”
Ummm, no. They’ve been political speaking points. They slapped some letters on the boxes and nobody really cares anymore. When’s the last time you heard a politician talking about video game violence? “Chopping block”- Has anything gotten less violent? No. Nobody really cared, it was just an easy thing to play politics with. People are playing politics with this shooting and it’s not right.
I totally agree that people are playing politics with this shooting.
It’s on both sides of the aisle and it’s disgusting.
I remembered when tragedy united us.
“Hasn’t rap and video games and violence in movies been on the chopping block for atleast the last 20 sumtn years?”
not really. i mean, some people still bitch about them, but rappers and video game producers are still able to make their products
but like any rapper will tell you, those little letters add up to some very important differences in their bank accounts.
Pseudo awareness has to count for something.
Okay Champ, I’ll say it was equivalent to a steal in basketball terms and not just any steal but one that modified the momentum of a game. Isn’t momentum of significant importance or am I just putting too much into the idea of Black demonification by popular media and not putting enough importance on the individual that committed the atrocity against our political structure?
Either way, I’ve personally determined that there are too many factors that lead to this point. He didn’t wake up crazy one day. So, my entire unnecessarily elaborate thought was that maybe their hateful rhetoric was the “straw that broke the camel’s back”. Although it isn’t necessarily a reasonable argument, while looking at the supposed evidence, I feel safe making that conclusion, but that is also because I’m not in a position of power. so, what do I really know?
@CHAMP and @PANAMA
Y’all could use the site to hold a forum for discussing the book. And then you could always refer back to it if anybody ever just jumped out with criticism over it. Like a FAQ.
it could be an extra post, or a lazy day post or something…look, I’m horrible with details but I got excited and wanted to share…I’d be crushed if someone beat me to it and I didn’t read it….that would bite and suck me vapid.
Video games, rappers etc. are not really held accountable, sure it’s a topic to be discussed everytime a youth shooting occurs in Bill-Maher round table discussions but to my knowledge there have not been any concrete rulings (laws) making them culpable (??). I dont think there ever will be b/c there is not a good reproducible causal relationship b/w media violence and social violence. Violence like many other genetic disorders is believed to be multi-factorial, some individuals are just more prone to it, like addictions or Nicki Minaj.
Call me crazy but I do believe that one with access to a wide audience (rappers, politicians, authors etc.) should be cognizant of their audience and the information they put out there. You dont have to cater to the crazies but dont forget that they exist and have the common sense to know that some things are just socially irresponsible. Just because you can do them doesn’t mean you should.
yes, that says more accurately what I was attempting to say. Thank you…its bed time. Nite.
“Call me crazy but I do believe that one with access to a wide audience (rappers, politicians, authors etc.) should be cognizant of their audience and the information they put out there.”
I could have wrapped up my long comment into this one sentence. Well said.
Thank ya kindly
“…I’ll have no more absolute say over how my words are interpreted and understood.”
You really don’t have that now anyway…
Most people lurk before they comment, and some people never comment. People are going to think what they want even after you try to make your position clear.
If someone gives you the opportunity and you choose to address it, great! If not- oh well, they’re offended.
In the famous words of a great Man:
“i can understand that folks dont like the delivery. but hell, folks take shots at me all the time…all the time. hell if you read some of the comments of the past few days ninjas are going at me. doesnt mean i change up the game. i keep doing me.”
Works for me, do you Champ! Do YOU!
“If someone gives you the opportunity and you choose to address it, great! If not- oh well, they’re offended.”
@Yeah*yeah*yeah… Co-sign…
The hardest thing sometimes is to put it out there and have people get it as you intended.
Because even though your opinions and thoughts may or may not change on a particular subject over time, the reality is that there are certain conversations and debates you never get away from.
I mean never.
I still run into people online that are still mad about something I wrote in ‘05… and this isn’t just a desire to continue a debate but they are still trying to get me to agree.
This most likely will never happen, but its nice to be remembered… I even have an arch-nemesis or 3 and truth be told I kinda dig it because the sh*t makes me feel like a superhero
One of my girls reads some of my stuff and says “you gonna get yo azz assassinated one day… just stay away from the little red light”
But this is the life we chose.
You and Panama pizz me off and disappoint me sometimes… but I love you like family and can’t wait to hear what you think about whatever is going on… and that is why I f*c/k with y’all.
I want to know what you think all raw like you ninjas bring it… so please don’t change and don’t stop
Cause I can’t wait to see what y’all gonna do next ~JS
@Jhane Sez
“I even have an arch-nemesis or 3 and truth be told I kinda dig it because the sh*t makes me feel like a superhero”
Your name definitely has a superhero ring to it!
…Able to enlighten with a single word…
Profound. Causing the most astute ninjas to drown…
Yeah, you definitely are Superhero worthy!
Someone mention something up thread that made me hit Google and I came across this http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2011/01/09/westboro-baptist-church-arizona_n_806319.html. It is very hard to imagine in a society that prides itself on certain alienable rights and liberties people like this still exist. I really have to ask myself are we as evolved as a country as we like to portray ourselves to others. I mean really how the “terrorist” here are any different than the ones we fight overseas. It is sad how much freedom we have as a nation but how so many people either neglect that freedom or abuse/misuse that freedom. Freedom of speech doesn’t mean hate speech and the right to bear arms doesn’t mean you can go around killing innocent people. There are so many ignorant people with power and it is very sad what is happening to the “democracy” that our ancestors fought and lost their lives for. I have to wonder if America really is that nation it portrays itself to be, that great democracy. All of this is truly sad; the senseless violence, the state of our government and just the people that inhabit this country.
Just like Sarah Palin, poor misguided souls…
What I don’t understand is her ignorance. She seems to be oblivious to it. Her 15 mins are lasting way too long for me, I really thought she was just a dimwit that would eventually fade away. Her PR team is working overtime and earning every cent because she is such an imbecile.
What scares me is there appears to be people that would actually be okay with her being the next president. GTFOH!
I’m not a speech writer, but dang I could have done a better job than that!!!
The way people twist Christianity is frightening. I hope their protests remain verbal.
America has never been that country it portrays itself to be, never.
Some folks know it…..some are just learnin it… some may *never* learn it
I’m cheating on Champ’s comment – the one I want to marry – with this one.
lol imma keep my mouth shut for my own good
lawd…let me find 60-11 acres and a mule….so i can live my live content and die nappy and happy amen
I don’t think Glenn Beck or any other pundit should take the blame for what happened in Arizona. But people DO need to realize that there are consequences for their words, particularly when they reach millions. People like Glenn Beck, Sarah Palin, Rick Ross and Jeezy want the right to yell “FIRE!” but then be surprised when people react in a panic. There’s a way to present your radical opinion without inviting fear and/or promoting dangerous misinformation. Beck yelling “the US is headed for FASCISM!” and TI repeatedly referring to his time in prison as a “vacation” has a ripple effect. the idea of going to jail becomes desensitized with tip’s words. The idea that Americans are headed for a dangerous regime seems legit because people reason, “Fox wouldn’t allow a nutjob to spew crazed projections. Exercise the freedom of speech world, but don’t be surprised when your words fuel hysteria when you say hysterical things!
“There’s a way to present your radical opinion without inviting fear and/or promoting dangerous misinformation.”
Not necessarily; what if your opinion includes fear? Beck frequently speaks about his fears for the country. Are you saying people don’t have the right to express a fear they truly perceive? In a time when we have more information than ever, why isn’t it the consumer’s responsibility to compare and contrast? I don’t think this gives the general population much credit. The people watching Beck could just as easily watch Behar and get a totally different perspective.
“There’s a way to present your radical opinion without inviting fear and/or promoting dangerous misinformation.”
of course there is but do you think they do it unknowingly or accidentally? Scare tactics have always been very effective when persuading someone into a certain belief. they prey on individuals who are too ignorant, lazy, old, stubborn etc to do their own homework/research/ THINK! These pundits actually yell, inciting more fear. Hell if I saw things radically changing (president, taxes, laws) and the only (easiest/most convenient) explanation was found in someone telling me how it was all part of an evil plot, and I had to act quick and drastically, Id be ready to blow sumthin up too! Theres this Anderson Cooper interview with Leo Berman. This guy is spewing absolute lies as truth, even when blatant evidence says otherwise. For various reasons not understood by me, a lot of people are extremely scared. So scared, that they make up things to give themselves comfort. In the process, they influence other scared people and the viscous cycle continues. At least until it is taken too far…It is arguable whether the “tragedy in tuscon” is an example of this, but it surely appears that way upon first glance, especially looking at his government/political rants.
the blame game becomes tricky because theres a complex interplay of factors here. i guess i said all that to say, while the pundits arent totally to blame, they do have some responsibility but so do the parents, teachers, ourselves….
i am going to check to see if my job/library bought your book…
Great post -
Ive often said the same thing about how hip-hop music is perceived to have influenced young black men and women. Hell, the media went on a rampage (and still does) over various rhymes/statements that are said by various rappers…….and hold THEM to the fire for some shit that some kid in Anyhood, USA did.
But NOW….
Im pretty sure that alot of the same people who took that stance, now take the stance the average rapper took, “I didnt tell him to do that” or “I didnt make him do that”, or something else that washes their hands of the situation.
Whatever is whatever……
Im still up in the air on what to think or how to assess the situation.
At this point, I just hope that all of the victims are able to pull through.
Excited about the book release! *flings toast-shaped, 3-shaped, and boob-shaped confetti* (Guess which ones are for who. *wink* )
So…I have about two weeks before naysayers start appearing here to argue points made in your book?
YES!!!
I can’t wait to get at all of that new booty! Be sure to do a series of posts here that discuss the most controversial parts of the book.
It will be epic!!!
No Bullsh*t
If you’ve listened to Glenn Beck, you know some of the stuff he talks about is down right scary. Palin- I’m mean she’s not even in government anymore right? These are individuals giving their view of America, it’s one’s prerogative on how to take it.
Anything can set off a psychopath. Trying to give even partial blame to these people who are simply speaking their opinions is ridiculous. Using the sick deviant’s behavior as political fodder is just low and disrespectful.
I was listening to Rush L. yesterday and he was talking about something that relates to how you’re feeling. He said when he got his first national radio gig, they told him as long as he said what he truly believed in they would stand behind them. If he said things just for the sake of being sensational, they wouldn’t be interested in keeping him around.
You guys are pretty funny IMO. People tend not to care if you “go too far” when sh*t is actually funny and sh*t is actually funny usually because it’s true! I recently heard a comedian make a joke about miscarriage (one of the least funny subjects possible) on some comedy special. He said some outrageous sh*t. I was shocked, like “I can’t believe he just said that” but I laughed my a$$ off because it was actually hilarious the sentiment he expressed was really honest. Good luck to you.
What bothers me the most….folks label the shooter crazy right off the bat.
Once you do that….there’s no reason to talk to someone. All the other “crazies” see that…and check out too.
Why even bother to talkin to folks that think you’re crazy.
Just cap some ass…..
Humor is a great way to make the truth better absorbed. Also, Champ and Panama are men so they won’t receive as much hate as a woman who may talk about c*m. lol
all i’m gonna say is that it’s probably gonna get worse…
white folks live in a constant state of fear and denial…and i do mean c.o.n.s.t.a.n.t.
couple that with guns…..
a lil logic and you can see where this country is going….
me…i’m takin my black ass to Samoa…
props on book y’all!
LOL, this might be the time to find a place a little more laid back. House Hunters International anyone? Last one I saw was in Uraguay…
Uruguay is nice as hell too!
Memories….lawd.the memories!
I read the incredibly offensive “I hope they serve beer in hell” by Tucker Max… and I found it to be generally offensive, yet stupidly hilarious. Granted he is a white male (law school grad/someone who most would consider a VS-2520 as well as obnoxious)… I’d believe you guys have nothing to worry about. I started reading this blog months ago and got hooked (even gave up gossip blogs-bc I dont have time for both), but I can’t wait to buy your book, and I even wanna make by VSB sig-other read it with me: PROJECT! So that’s 2 copies you can consider sold.
All the best.
I’m excited about your book release even though I’m way out of the dating game. When will it be available to pre-order on Amazon? I just tried to do so and it wasn’t there yet.
I might even spring for the extra postage and have it shipped to Switzerland instead of waiting for my mom to bring it the next time she visits. I’m that looking forward to it.
As a fairly new subscriber to this blog and a new blogger myself, I find your posts very insightful, helpful, and, of course, funny. As I try to find my own niche in the blogging community, I hope to have the success that VSB has seen and I very much look forward to the release of your new book!
“I can imagine it being hard to be a rad fem or womanist with c*m on your nose”
First off, I am still laughing after reading this. If I wasn’t going to buy the book, I am now.
There is a big difference between a Rapper inciting violence against an unknown maraud of haters, busters, and marks and a former governor/political pundit/part-time porn star/possible presidential candidate in 2012 explicitly putting cross hairs on an elected official over something as incendiary as immigration policy.
As much as I hate to say it, a former politician’s words carry more weight than a clearly ignorant rapper. Even though someone like waka flocka flame, who is a genius (but that’s another convo for another day), may incite violence in his lyrics the vast majority of people do not take it seriously. Inner city violence, much like the tragedy in Arizona, is multifactorial and in my experience there is usually an inciting event that causes the outburst of violence. In some cases it is perceived disresepect and in others it is something dumb like gang initiation. In Arizona’s case, it was a mentally unstable young man that probably had schizophrenia who was “told to kill” by a voice in his head, he just got a target from a post on facebook.
“As much as I hate to say it, a former politician’s words carry more weight than a clearly ignorant rapper”. Not necessarily. It all depends on the audience.
I don’t know who or what is to blame but Loughner’s rampage brings up a ton of issues with talking heads, hand guns, and the state of American Mental Health.
Radio and television talking heads should not be compared to rappers because what the opine influences policy. We all know that the Palins, Olbermans, and Becks of the world are preaching to their choirs but we never know how stable the folks in the choir are.
As much as I like shooting I’m the first to say that hand guns are designed for one thing: to kill people. Yes, they can be used to shoot targets or anything else but until Colt, Ruger, and every other hand gun maker admits this publically (they won’t) the hand guns wielded by people who aren’t fit to own them will always be an issue.
I still maintain that Loughner isn’t completely insane. He put a little too much prep into his actions. Health care reform is awesome and what not but there seriously needs to be some mental health care reform. Some of the folks walking around who are “quirky” are sometimes a little more than that.
I can’t imagine how it feels to expose your thoughts and opinions to a callous public. Most people hold those things private from all but their closest associates just to avoid that scrutiny. Having them in print form just seems so… permanent. I’m probably not helping. But knowing you guys, writing a book in which you censored yourselves to make everyone feel better would be as pointless as foreplay with a paraplegic.
Besides, you would disappoint a lot more people if you did. No use in worrying about people who only venture outside of their comfort zone to look for something to be mad about. You’re helping them in a strange way.
It is a difficult thing…which is why folks on fb keep asking me to write a book…and I keep finding reasons not to. I know I can…I know it would be good, or at least decent, but having it all out there for an audience to pick apart is like me showing up to work naked.
So right now….all 36 chapters of my book are in my head and will stay there.
I’m mad you know how many chapters are in the book. Let it out. Share your baby with the world. From your comments on here a lone I would definitely buy it. If you’re still scared, put a hat on in the picture and publish it under a pseudonym like Panama Mo or something #noshotsfried.
Just don’t name the book “Faster than the speed of love”.
@Mo, Co-signing using a psuedonym and give the people what they want!
LOL@Meech for the Family Guy reference!
LOL, y’all silly. A pseudonym is a great idea. Thanks!
Words influence people. If you are speaking to the masses, you should have a certain leven of responsibility in what you say. Obviously that will never happen. You would think that psychos and sociopaths would stay to themselves and only the wise ones would inform but it’s the opposite. Generally, intelligent people are reserved and the psychos talk alot. If you have ever worked in mental health, you would know that psychos love to talk to anyone who will listen. Also, most of their convo is driven by paranoia. They love politics and are obsessed with world leaders, consipiracy and domination. (This is due to a slew of reasons that is too much for this thread.) These people go to the internets, etc and push their opinions out to the public. Unfortunately, people who don’t stand for much, fall for anything. Look at how much hip hop influences our youth where hundreds of poor black boys are selling dope because rappers who were poor sold dope and talked about it while riding fancy cars in videos. Go to the far extreme and see how radical Islamics preach a message the encourages stoning and hanging of women/teens. Obviously, I don’t blame Beck or Palin for one psycho’s actions. Yes I think the responsiblity should be on parents to raise children to be much stronger in who they are. HOWEVER that’s not the world we live in. My point is that words do influence others and there should be a level of responsibility with free speech but that will never happen.
Obviously I’m not talking about small convo this blog or a dating book that I can’t wait to read, I’m talking about people who speak to the masses whether it be by a podium or album.
@SFG
I think some people are more bold behind their computers, but I had/have to refrain from reading some of the comments on places like yahoo, and youtube…because the comments are so repulsive and inflammatory.
I’m embarrassed that other countries read the comments and that they may think that all Americans are vile and stupid…
The comments that people type on you tube are RIDICULOUS! lolol I seriously wonder about youtube commenters.
Is there a video of this Sarah Palin thingy you guys are speaking of, if so, can I get a link?!?!
Around 3:30 she mentions “blood libel”
http://www.theglobeandmail.com/news/video/sarah-palins-video-accusing-the-media-of-blood-libel/article1867443/?cmpid=rss1
Here it is….BAM {Chuck D voice}…
http://vimeo.com/18698532
idk what exactly is in your book, of course, but if it mostly consists of the content on this blog and is worded pretty much the same, i’m sure it’ll be great. i think people who would buy a book called Your Degrees Won’t Keep You Warm at Night will get your humor. good luck! i hope i do see you guys on oprah or some equally big show one day
While there is probably some low level correlation between the angry rhetoric that certain right wing pundits spew and the charged social environment that pushes people teetering on the fringes of rational thought to cross the line, trying to place blame with Palin and her ilk for this incident is insulting to both the victims of the crime and the magnitude of the consequences of their words.
The people who were hurt or lost their lives deserve to not have their losses used as a political tool in a culture war, especially with such a tenuous connection.
At the same time, acting as if the bloodshed of a few innocent people is the ultimate tragic consequence of creating such a charged environment and justification enough to put an end speaks the ignorance of the damage that their words have already done and the wages yet to be realized.
The proliferation of pointless wars, crippling debt, growing wealth disparity, deregulation, an eroded manufacturing base and a segment of society hell bent on working against it’s own best interest are all consequences of this rhetoric and affect the stability of the economically intertwined world as we know it.
Sad, but true…
the magnitude of the consequences of her words is greater than we would hope them to be, so i do see it necessary to investigate the correlation and put a stop not to angry rhetoric, but to angry, symbollically violent rhetoric.
Me too, just don’t think this is the right front to fight that battle.
Hello everyone:) I have always thought that the “pen is mightier then the sword” as many of the extremely eloquent posters have previously stated; words have power. How we interpret those words and what we as human beings decide to do with said words. Like others have stated to blame inflammatory media figures is not fair, but to completely dismiss their speech as dangerous. During Jim Crow and the Civil RIghts movement hate groups such as the White Citizens council (which often had prominent members of the white community as members) would pass out racist literature, hold rallies and conduct radio broadcasts. Was racism virulent, and lethal for blacks in the South at that time before these groups, yes of coure? Did hate speech, fear mongering and rhetoric encourage and incite more violence, I believe it did. It is a absolutely heartbreaking that this tragedy happened, but what I feel is very telling is that political factions and rhetoric were one of the first conclusions that the media and many people thought of when the event occured. When events like the Arizona tragedy happen what is the first thing the police/media investigate, what music, literature, writings and musings and interests did the gunman have? How did they interact with others socically? while political affiliation may be questioned that is not often the case immediately their was a shooting at my university two years ago, the gunman’s life was deconstructed his childhood, adolescenece, adulthood every detail of his life was examined. I do not recall a thourough examination of his political views and affiliations. While this young man in Tuscon attempted to casue fatal injury to an elected government official when his poltical affiliation is immediately questioned doesn’t it reflect that the current tone of political discourse currently is crass, vulgar, and virtiolic and should be toned down?
I fully disagree with the analogies you made. I don’t think they are even a tiny bit relative.
And I do think what Palin did was outrageous and I wouldnt be surprised if it was indeed indirectly responsible for this tragedy. The woman is a gremlin.
That is all.
See, I knew there was a reason you said that kid was even more athletic and explosive than Lebron! Your suffering from sleep depravation and anxiety about your book…explains EVERYTHING! lol
As far as how you phrase things, you have to examine your audience. Your’s is totally different from Sarah Palin’s or Glenn Beck’s. They self imposed the name “Tea Baggers” onto one another… C’mon Son! You can’t compare the sophisticated, intelligent, and most often pragmatic audience you gear your material towards with the likes of them.
With that said, as long as the context is not lost, I don’t think that you should really give a flying f*%#! what anyone really thinks and pursue your dream and agenda, as long as it doesn’t hurt anyone…
Here’s the thing though, Champ. They already went after rappers in the early 90′s as a backlash against “gangsta rap”. It’s already obvious that these SAME people understand and believe in the power of words AND believe people should be accountable.
As for your own work, I to have the same concerns with my own literary works to come. What has to be accepted is that, no matter what you say, you’ll have no control over what happens post-release. And so why talk about rainbows and kittens. Get something real out there.
Champ, I think that its a good thing that you think and care about “going to far”, self-censorship is something that many of us need to do more of.
just look at twitter.
I however think that with words you have to be prepared to deal with the repercussions that come with the misuse associated with them and if that means you get cussed out, popped in the mouth, etc. So be it, they will have to deal with the consequences of Their actions.
And yes, you should be aware of your influence and the fact that there are some that are for whatever reasons more susceptible to your rhetoric…
and one should be accountable when they use their influence and power to incite or antagonize …to a certain extent.
I firmly believe that your civil rights end where mine begin and I feel the same is true with a lot of things, I say all of that to say this.
I am still no more responsible for your actions than you are.
And the same is true of tea party’ers, book writers, artist, etc.
We as americans do enjoy and are protected by the right to free speech and because of that, the blood is not on the tea party’s hands for their violent rhetoric. However i do feel they are partially, (if only an inkling) responsible for their words, as we all are. If i walk up to you and say the most vile thing about your mother, thats my god given right. But I also half to deal with the repercussions, say, you punching me in the face. I understand the parallel between the tea parties speakers, and rappers/actors/entertainers. but i think the fallacy here is they ARE entertainers. We listen to them already knowing this is for entertainment ONLY (which is why glen beck gets a pass although he plays on the line). Even when rappers try to pass the “thug life” they rap about as being real, it can quickly become reality for them as well! But these tea party governors and other elected officials are LEADERS! they are supposed to lead and they are leading us (some) to violence! This is not the first violent act the tea party incited. I also dont think its coincidence that the tea party candidate for governor of Arizona was the one who instructed voters to “use second amendment remedies” should they not get their way at the polls. They are in privileged positions of real leadership and should behave as such.
I don’t know if this point has been made before, but although you made a valid observation, the words uttered in hip hop lyrics should not be taken wit the same gravity as those pundits who whose words are supposedly real life stances and criticisms. Those who often often defend hip hop and even rap lyrics usually refer to the music itself being just an art form, or an expression of self. It is definitely a cop-out in some senses (especially now when most of the time the real reason for obscene lyrics is that they’re the only ones deemed worth selling by recording company execs). The fact of the matter is, the words in hip hop songs are protected under this veil of the art form that is music. Rappers, I feel, are not obliged to present their lyrics as factual, nor are we as consumers duped into thinking they’re true. If anything, violent lyrics are the result of such a lifestyle, and they propagate an already prevalent thug image that has been around much longer than rap music itself.
The words that these political pundits, though come from an entirely different forum and medium. This is not music, but supposedly real stances (and in some cases, “News”) on real issues that they are purporting. As ridiculous as Glen Beck’s and Rush Limbaugh’s rants are, and as obvious as it is that they exaggerate their stances for ratings, their words should not be protected under the creative licenses that musicians have. If they want their statements to be taken as fictional or satirical, then they should make an obvious point that that is the case.
The way I see it, these Ultra Conservative talking heads should be held accountable for their words. They’re basically putting on wax for Americans to stock up on heaters and shoot out in the streets, start a revolution to combat Obama’s ‘Socialist’ policies. I’m not saying there’s direct causality between what these idiots say day after day and what that crazy white guy did in Arizona. But you have to admit, they do have large bases of people who actually believe their hyperbolized claims.
I hope the book does very well. If you all wrote in a manner which has worked up until the book is released, which I assume you all have done, you can have only went “too far” in the eyes of those who aren’t real supporters and whose opinions don’t carry much weight. That’s just my humble opinion.
Best of luck, I look forward to getting the book. Will it be available at Barnes and Nobles? (I feel I lost some Ohio street cred just now lol)
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