Spare The Rod, Spoil The Child. Or Nah? » VSB

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Spare The Rod, Spoil The Child. Or Nah?

Adrian Peterson (Gregory Shamus/Getty Images)

 

The NFL played a whole slew of games on Sunday but the recent worst week ever that the league has experienced was at the forefront of it all. And it should be. Real issues that plague society at large are plaguing the league. The recent case of and his indictment for whippin’ his 4-year-old child’s ass with a switch to the point of actual injury is one of those issues. I’ve had various conversations with people about this over the past few days and many opinions have varied. Some people think its perfectly fine to whip kids with switches and its ridiculous (no matter what) that AP could see jail time. Other’s think that hitting your kids is not an acceptable form of punishment at all.

As a parent, I’m not completely sure where I stand. Lucky for me I have a daughter and what I won’t do is be whippin’ my daughter’s ass. I just can’t do it. Sure I’d pop her hand or something but naw. I do think that a 4-year-old is a bit young to be going the switch route. Either way, this isn’t even really about me.

On Sunday, and during the Sunday NFL Countdown pre-show, Cris Carter kind of went off about the Adrian Peterson situation and added a wrinkle. He effectively said that many of our parents who whipped our asses, were wrong. That its not the right form of punishment for kids. We’ve learned too much over the years to still be resorting to that method of punishment.

That’s an interesting way to look at it and a sentiment that I also agree with to a point. Some of our parents (I’m not saying mine necessarily) went waaaaaay too far at times. Extension cords, broomstick handles, etc. The list goes on. Some of the things people whip their kids with is borderline assault.

I don’t want to know if any of you all intend to beat the living shit out of your children, though I do understand thats just how a lot of us were raised and the mentality transfers down towards one of, “well, I turned out great BECAUSE my parents did xyz…” But I’m curious how people react to Cris Carter’s statement and thoughts on the AP case now that more details have emerged. I’m assuming AP feels he did nothing wrong, but I don’t want to speak for the man and I’m not even sure how I feel. Though if that child is legit injured because his football playing father couldn’t stop himself from literally tearing him up, then I would lose no sleep over his punishment, whatever it may be.

The kid is 4.

Anyway, peep the video. Then Talk to me.

Spare the rod, spoil the child….or nah?

 

Panama Jackson

Panama Jackson is pretty fly (and gorgeous) for a light guy. He used to ship his frito to Tito in the District, but shipping prices increased so he moved there to save money. He refuses to eat cocaine chicken. When he's not saving humanity with his words or making music with his mouth, you can find him at your mama's mama's house drinking her fine liquors. Most importantly, he believes the children are our future. You can hit him on his hitter at panamadjackson@gmail.com.

  • h.h.h.

    folks wanna spank, beat, cool. not really concerned with AP’s parenting tactics. probably shouldn’t leave marks tho, but it’s not my place to judge a parent how to raise a child, especially if they’re trying to instill some sort of discipline on their child.

    • “probably shouldn’t leave marks tho, but it’s not my place to judge a parent how to raise a child”

      i’ma judge. or rather, the judge will judge. seeing those pics of that little boy tore up like that really, really bothered me.

  • lsq

    1. there are laws that govern parenting – so, know the laws where you live and stop bragging about beating your kids – there are mandatory reporters all around – and yes the government is telling you how to raise your kids (or at least putting limits on it).

    2. there really is no debate about this: http://www.huffingtonpost.com/lisa-belkin/spanking-is-wrong_b_1659964.html the evidence is clear, it is a form of human behavior that is extremely popular, but wrong.

    3. If you can discipline a child without violence – (and you can) – then that should be the way. So many other entities (fraternities, military, some schools) have moved away from violence – I find it odd that folks across the spectrum still agree that violence against defenseless children is a good teaching tool.

    Violence does teach lessons – but not the ones you think.

    • Tentpole

      The problem with what you are saying is that you don’t cover all living conditions. In some some environments you need spankings that is the only way you are going to control your child. Just look at the number of spoiled brats that have grown up and made selfish decisions that have affected you. Because when they were children, their parent caved in to their trandums. The other entities have move away from physical contact because they had let their members who were out of control go too far and someone died when they didn’t have to. They failed to monitor their own members.. Violence teaches two lessons. Which one you listen to depends on who is in charge of the media at the time the message is being delivered.

    • PunchDrunkLove

      The good book was here before the law. It’s not lead me wrong yet. It says spare the rod, spoil the child. It does not advocate abuse, but it does encourages, rather recommends disciplining your child. I’m the law in my home. My kid has all the privileges in the world, free to have friends, free to spend the money she earns, but there are rules, structure and parameters, and all for reason. As long as she respects the rules, we are on a good note. If she decides to do otherwise, then we have to get into what happens when she disobeys. Now it’s not always spankings (well not now, she’s too old for that), but there must be some consequence for teaching a lesson.

      One thing folks forget, being disciplined is for the time your child(ren) functions/lives away from you, outside the home, moves out. Your child will have to be a functioning citizen, respecting others, obeying laws, maintaining in school, surviving in the work environment, etc. A structured home is to cultivate, discipline enforces.

      • Amber

        I think it’s important, when people use verses from the Bible, is that they use it within the context of history and the full understanding of the text. I can pull one verse out and justify a lot of evil things. Yes the Bible is the inspired word of God but it was written by man and based on things that happened in the world at a point in time.

        • PunchDrunkLove

          “All scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness”

          This is the last I’ll say on this topic:

          The bible wasn’t writtin for past times nor should be thought of as something for back then. People tend to liken God as far as the human mind can stretch. God is eternal. Think he’d provide instructions only for a time in history? You may not know God, but he still walks and talks with believers, the bible being the source, the awakening….I can’t explain that though. That’s gotta be your experience. The bible is the Word of God, and as long as God exists, the Bible exists and will continues to exist and it’s instructions are as relevant today as “back then.”

          “For the prophecy came not in old time by the will of man: but holy men of God spake as they were moved by the Holy Ghost”…..

          Yes, the Bible was written by men, but only when moved by the Holy Spirit, thus it was written by God. No matter how much folks try to discredit the Bible, or say the times have changed, or people have changed, it has and will stand the test of time. Like I always say, it will be here when I’m gone and it will await all of us on the day of judgement. I’ll take my chances with Word of God and it’s instructions over and above any and everything else.

          • Amber

            Think you may misunderstand what I’m saying. Whatever you read you want to understand the author’s intent and application to your life today. I study the Bible and believe it’s important to not just read the words but gain clarity on how to apply to life today. I would certainly like to expound but work won’t let me slack off today.

            • PunchDrunkLove

              I understood your point. I’m saying though, you have to have the Spirit in dwelling to interpret, teach and guide through the scriptures, to bring it to life and know how to apply to your life. It is as alive to day as it was when written. Yes, you must study, but the key is not how or what you think about it, but how the Spirit opens and reveals. It will open the scriptures for you. Most pick it up and really believe they can understand it’s intents and what it means, void of the Spirit’s guidance. The Spirit goes much deeper than any man’s knowledge. Without the Spirit, what you think naturally (thoughts and opinions), is not on the same wave length as what God is saying. For all believers (true believers), not folks playing church, we are all on one accord….as there’s only one Spirit, one Lord, one Faith, one Baptism. There aren’t different understandings and intrepretations.

              I’m with you though….gotta stay on my grind :) Plus this ain’t really the place/forum. I checked back in, but my work suffers if I hang out all day…lol

    • 1. Definitely true, according to the government, the children are the property of the state anyways, so you’re right there. That being said, just like not everyone calls the police or their insurance companies after a fender bender, not everyone lives according to the laws of the land, when it conflicts with common sense and personal experiences.

      2. There is really no debate. “Psychology”, being scientific after all, has proven beyond reasonable doubt that “beating/spanking” children is evil and wrong. The suggested alternatives: drugs, attaching children to basically leases; putting children in isolated spaces, similar to how prisoners are put into isolation, using behaviorist techniques to offer children incentives: like candy and ice cream to perform desirable behavior, similar to the way dogs are trained to roll over and play dead and the list goes on. Indeed, there is no argument: psychological abuse < physical abuse, because the stats say so. Ironically, most of that so call psychological studies are backed by the so-called government, that apparently has the best interest of children at heart.

      3. I do agree that the ultimate goal with children isn't to teach them to understand the world through violence, but rather through wisdom, knowledge and understanding. I realize that spanking, to some extent reinforces aggression, but the idea that it is attached to some form of psychological/traumatic determinism, like I said below, is easily disproven, once you expand your scope to cultures outside of America, where there are more permissive views on spanking – simply excessive violence and aggression in individual nations should be a lot more higher than it actually is. Not to mention, the alternatives to disciplining and dealing with negative behaviors, have not delivered any progress towards the utopia such people have often contextualized their arguments on.

  • Sigma_Since 93

    Chris Carter made one point that resonates with me about the NFL and disciplining my kids. He yelled Rodger should take them off the field because it’s the only thing they respect and he’s right. When your kids are young, the fear of being popped is what they respect and they modify their behavior accordingly. As your children get older, the things your children respect evolve and using old tactics will not work. The threat of jacking my oldest means nothing; the threat of losing his software editing equipment and the ability to get his permit is everything.

    You sit those fellas down without pay for a game or two / or three and watch how quickly behaviors modify.

    Dan Snyder only respects cash. If Native Americans were season ticket holders and they left, his behavior would evolve rapidly. Find the motivators and use them to modify behavior.

  • I try to keep an open mind about this stuff. There’s a fine line between protecting children and the state effectively taking over as parent, so you have to be sensitive between what goes on between a child and parents. What may be unacceptable in one house may be perfectly fine in another, and vice versa.

    That said, there are two problems I see when people go to physical discipline with their children. The first is that spanking becomes a substitute for communication with a child. Instead of explaining to a child that, gee, doing X is wrong and explaining why it is wrong, they’ll just pop the kid and hope that the kid gets the message. You end up messing kids up in two particular ways. One is that you have a kid that’s afraid of doing anything for fear of getting hit. The other is that they end up thinking like Syndrome in The Incredibles: if everything is special, than nothing is. They’ll figure if I’m going to get popped for everything their parents don’t like, with no rhyme or reason to it, why not just do whatever they want?

    The second problem is that I’ve seen way too many parents get their feelings into spankings. The point of spanking is that you’re trying to discipline the child, not to show the child how upset, angry and hurt you are. At that point, it’s abuse, because it’s not about the child anymore. If a parent can’t keep themselves from getting into their feelings and losing control of themselves, they need to step away until they can. There’s no shame in taking a time out for yourself, and a lot of shame in abusing children.

    Personally, I’m not anti-spanking, though I do think people probably do it too much. I think people miss the point of discipline with their kids. The ultimate goal is to teach them right from wrong. It’s not to show them what you don’t like. People don’t think this through, and eventually it leads to situations like Adrian Peterson is in.

    • mochazina

      “I think people miss the point of discipline with their kids. The ultimate goal is to teach them right from wrong. It’s not to show them what you don’t like. People don’t think this through…”

      CHURCH!!!!!!

    • LadyIbaka

      Loved this! Great great points.

  • Tentpole

    We are at the tipping point where the no spank camp is getting to be larger than the spank camp. Spanking your child take great self control because you have to know how much force to use and always be in the right frame of mind. In retrospect, those in my sphere who can see the benefits of spanking all realize we came from good parenting because we got spank and not assulted. The adults in my childhood knew their limits because somethimes a whooping came much later after they calmed down and could focus on the spanking. It is a lot different now because many parents spank when angry and lose their self control and forget they are dealing with a child and have the tendency to go to full force. We all know today if many children had gotten their azz whipped at an early age they might not be sitting behing bars today or just not plain getting on your nerves in public.

    • Spanking your child take great self control because you have to know how
      much force to use and always be in the right frame of mind.

      You nailed it. It’s when parents get in their feelings that spanking can be a problem. Also, spanking is ultimately a tool. Some people use it well, and others use it poorly. Only a poor craftsman blames his tools.

    • Rachmo

      “Spanking your child take great self control because you have to know how much force to use and always be in the right frame of mind.”- That is a great point.

      • ED

        Agreed.
        My mother never beat us specifically for that reason. She was afraid she’d lose control and really hurt us.

        • Rachmo

          I’m scared I’d lose control myself. I don’t have kids but I know they can drive you to the brink.

          • ED

            They can. I don’t have any children either but I’ve worked with kids in the past in various capacities. They can push your buttons like no other person can.

            • Sigma_Since 93

              The worst are children that are the award of the State; they know the law and will let you know of their rights while acting a dang fool.

    • PunchDrunkLove

      Amen, brother…..AMEN! I don’t care what anyone says….spanking works. And you are correct, the act of spanking is to correct and chastise. If you’re angry (if you ain’t had kids, pleeeease), wait and calm down. I also agree with other means of punishment (i.e. extra chores, privileges taken, etc), but danggit, if GOD says and gives it, I believe. Having been raised in a household where we got it, we are all the better for it. I agree, if more had gotten a butt whipping they might have taken better path.

      One thing when raising my kid, I was NEVER afraid of “the law”, and I let my kid know that early on. Bump what a school or teacher said, the folks in the grocery stores, out and about. Now, I didn’t have problems with my kid acting out, but she knew show out in public, you get it in public. Like my parents told us, as long as we put our feet under their table, ate their food, etc., it was our duty to obey whatever rules set forth. I stand by it. It didn’t kill us.

      • All evidence points to the contrary.

        • PunchDrunkLove

          The outcome of well behaved, balanced adults is my evidence. We weren’t abused as kids, nor did I abuse my kid, but when you’re raising kids, you better be prepared to have some sort of means. If not, that’s a nightmare for you and all those around your kid waiting to happen.

          You should go into the prisons and the likes and take a poll of those that refused to be or was never disciplined, etc. I’d be interested in the numbers.

          • Epsilonicus

            While your experience is valid, there is a thing called confirmation bias. Your experience is not the same as thorough and well done examination of child psychology and development

            • PunchDrunkLove

              “Your experience is not the same as thorough and well done examination of child psychology and development”

              And you’re an expert in what I know becaaaause…………..

              Most experts ain’t had kids. If you haven’t had any, then there’s not much one can tell me about raising.

            • I’m no expert, but I do have a ton of experience working with children/adolescents in the field of mental health as well as working with kids who suffer from various forms of developmental disorders…most of the stuff you hear or read in the child psychology books, are to put it bluntly, utterly BS. As long as you don’t maintain a blatant respect for research and always seek out evidence confirmed by the senses, it’s pretty easy to see the limitations.

              A lot of the reasons why psychologist get away with impractical theories on development, including going back to mega giants like Freud is because people confuse science and positivism (science being the study of the logic of consequences, and positivism vs a faith in the scientific method, without the necessity of verification) If you apply all the ideas and concepts of child psych books on your own kids, you’d likely end up thinking that your son/daughter is the manifestation of the Anti-Christ.

    • Kema

      Prison is full of people that got beat as children.

  • Rachmo

    I was spanked very rarely as a child as my parents reserved spanking for the “oh shyt you really fucked up” moments. My parents mad voices were enough to instill fear in Wee Rachmo’s heart so scolding me was usually the furthest it went. I don’t have kids so I can’t really comment beyond that.

    • Indeed! Spankings was for acts of outright disrespect or blantant disregard for my parents rules. Not just because I was running around the house on a tuesday. Good parents who choose to spank know when and how much is necessary. A lot of the time the fear you MIGHT get a spanking was enough!

      • Rachmo

        Yeah spankings were reserved for flagrant bs on our part.

    • Yes! My mom rarely ever put her hands on me. Between “I’m so disappointed in you” and the look of “girl don’t even *think* of doing that” that made me fear a hypothetical beating, I became the most respectful child out there.

      Why does stuff like this work? My mom was an expert communicator. We talked out every damn thing and to this day we barely go a day without speaking.

      If you’re whipping your kid to the point of drawing blood, you’re not doing it right.

      • Rachmo

        So much truth in here. My parents spoke with me like I was an adult at all times so my acting up resulted in some painful “you let us down” talks. Due to their preferred method being an eye to eye convo we still talk often to this day.

  • Mr. SD

    I love my mom to death and still do. And as a parent I’ve mimicked most of everything she did. All except beatings. It wasn’t right then and its not right now. My daughter is 12 and I have yet to even think about striking her (with or without a belt/switch) as a lesson in punishment. It never made sense to me, even as a child.

  • ED

    I’m with the camp that believes you can physically punish your child without injuring them. I got a few beatings as a child and never did I sustain any injuries–no bruises, no broken skin, nothing. Those beatings were very few and far between (as they should have been) and were reserved for some of my worst offenses as a child.

    I caught Cris Carter’s comments live yesterday and I was with him all the way.

    • LeeLee

      “I’m with the camp that believes you can physically punish your child without injuring them.”

      Me too. There is a girl I went to grade school with who is very creative in disciplining her two boys. If they do something wrong, she would make them run around the track or do holding squats until their knees buckled. Physical punishment without ever laying her hands on them. I don’t know if I can have/will have children, but if I do, I will be adopting her methods :)

  • My view on the subject of spankings is different. I received whippings as a child (the most memorable one being on my birthday) however, they were always the last resort and afterward my mom explained why she spanked me and that she didn’t want to. Once I was old enough to understand the consequences of my actions they ended. So I think that, as others have said as well, that when done properly spankings can be used as a last resort. On the other hand I have cousins who were essentially beaten into submission. For example they received whippings BEFORE church for what they might do once they got there. That is child abuse and does not teach the child anything but to hate their parents and that it is okay to use violence as problem solving. This is the category that Adrian Peterson falls into, there is nothing a four year-old child can do that warrants a spanking with a switch.

    • ED

      Preemptive beatings? That’s just cruel.

      • It is and it did nothing to stop their behavior, it just made them better at hiding it.

    • Yeah…your mom did it right, and your cousin’s fam did it ALL the way wrong.

    • panamajackson

      Yo…beatings for what they might do? That’s crazy, yo.

      • Sigma_Since 93

        You never heard this is for all the stuff you did that I didn’t catch?

  • MimiLuvs

    My mom and dad knew that spankings a.k a. Whipping did not work for me, as well as, for my brother. We both realized that spankings provided temporary pain, so we would take the whippings… and continued to do whatever transgression that we caught, except we were more sneaky about it.

    It wasn’t until my parents learned about taking away privileges when we started to behave in a positive manner.

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