Spare The Rod, Spoil The Child. Or Nah? » VSB

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Spare The Rod, Spoil The Child. Or Nah?

The NFL played a whole slew of games on Sunday but the recent worst week ever that the league has experienced was at the forefront of it all. And it should be. Real issues that plague society at large are plaguing the league. The recent case of and his indictment for whippin’ his 4-year-old child’s ass with a switch to the point of actual injury is one of those issues. I’ve had various conversations with people about this over the past few days and many opinions have varied. Some people think its perfectly fine to whip kids with switches and its ridiculous (no matter what) that AP could see jail time. Other’s think that hitting your kids is not an acceptable form of punishment at all.

As a parent, I’m not completely sure where I stand. Lucky for me I have a daughter and what I won’t do is be whippin’ my daughter’s ass. I just can’t do it. Sure I’d pop her hand or something but naw. I do think that a 4-year-old is a bit young to be going the switch route. Either way, this isn’t even really about me.

On Sunday, and during the Sunday NFL Countdown pre-show, Cris Carter kind of went off about the Adrian Peterson situation and added a wrinkle. He effectively said that many of our parents who whipped our asses, were wrong. That its not the right form of punishment for kids. We’ve learned too much over the years to still be resorting to that method of punishment.

That’s an interesting way to look at it and a sentiment that I also agree with to a point. Some of our parents (I’m not saying mine necessarily) went waaaaaay too far at times. Extension cords, broomstick handles, etc. The list goes on. Some of the things people whip their kids with is borderline assault.

I don’t want to know if any of you all intend to beat the living shit out of your children, though I do understand thats just how a lot of us were raised and the mentality transfers down towards one of, “well, I turned out great BECAUSE my parents did xyz…” But I’m curious how people react to Cris Carter’s statement and thoughts on the AP case now that more details have emerged. I’m assuming AP feels he did nothing wrong, but I don’t want to speak for the man and I’m not even sure how I feel. Though if that child is legit injured because his football playing father couldn’t stop himself from literally tearing him up, then I would lose no sleep over his punishment, whatever it may be.

The kid is 4.

Anyway, peep the video. Then Talk to me.

Spare the rod, spoil the child….or nah?

 

Panama Jackson

Panama Jackson is pretty fly (and gorgeous) for a light guy. He used to ship his frito to Tito in the District, but shipping prices increased so he moved there to save money. He refuses to eat cocaine chicken. When he's not saving humanity with his words or making music with his mouth, you can find him at your mama's mama's house drinking her fine liquors. Most importantly, he believes the children are our future. You can hit him on his hitter at panamadjackson@gmail.com.

  • Red

    My mama used to use whoopings as her main form of punishment and i hated it. And it almost made me kinda hate her to a point because there was times she would take it too far. Kids do kid stuff but beating a four year old to that point is quite dramatic. Theres other ways to teach your kids a lesson.

    • We laugh to keep from crying about it as adults but yeah I’ve heard stories that are just horrifying

  • LadyIbaka

    I’m all for the rod, but use of it should be preceeded by COMMON SENSE! Using the rod, should not be used as a substitute for communication, if anything it should be used for REINFORCEMENT purposes. Wait, what?! Reinforce? Yes, oo…Reinforce that which the child is REFUSING/REBELLING against.

    As a parent, I’ll give you THREE chances. The first time, I’ll CLEARLY EXPLAIN to you, WHY what you did is wrong/not allowed, and actually give you the opportunity to ASK and/or seek clarification. Second time, I will give you a warning and a STERN reminder of the same that is devoid of any physical (on the body) punishment. However, you may do time, cleaning dishes, writing dissertation essays about Cinderalla, or the pain that Jesus endured on the cross for your sins. THIRD time, it’s a wrap! You are getting an ssa whopping, and I’ll be expecting a follow up dissertation of what you learned from your mistake/(s).

    What you won’t get is a time out! Time out for what?! Are you planning to be editor of Time magazine….if so, I may reconsider! I’m not your friend, I’m your mother, AND a loving one at that. Toodles.

    • LMNOP

      Wait, you give your friends time out?

      • Good point. I didn’t catch that the first time around. It would be funny to see you giving time outs for missing out on parties. LOL

        • LadyIbaka

          Lmao! You stuppiiiiid! I just pictured that and lawwdameercy! (Where did that gyal go? Oh Lord of mercy mercy mercy)

      • LadyIbaka

        No. I was just being sarcastic. I find timeouts to be stupid.

        • LMNOP

          Don’t take that tone with me Mami, or I’m a put you in time out.

          The friend point is important though. Your kids need to know that you love them, but they also need to know that you’re the parent and you make the rules. I’m not a fan of time outs either.

    • Dissertation essays on Cinderella tho

      • LadyIbaka

        Yap. Dead serious. I did those.

    • PunchDrunkLove

      I like your style!!!

      • LadyIbaka

        Thanks girlie!! :)

    • Rachmo

      I don’t really get “time outs.” Maybe it’s bc my parents never did that. The options were a stern talking to, getting sent to my room for hours, or if I really messed up the “disappointment voice” or a spanking.

      • LadyIbaka

        Girl, timeouts are just a waste of my speaking voice! Facing a bare wall then later engaging in the same behavior because oh well, “I’ll just face the wall”. Nah son, I don’t have time to keep repeating myself.

      • LMNOP

        They definitely don’t work for all kids, but it’s basically you stop a problematic behavior before it gets out of hand by physically removing the child from the situation and giving both the parent and child a chance to calm down.

        • Rachmo

          So is the timeout also for the parent?

          • LMNOP

            Yes, especially if you are really angry and on the brink of abusing your kid. Even if you don’t like / believe in giving kids time outs, the parental time out to just step away and take a minute to cool down should be in your bag of parenting tricks. This is harder in cramped living situations, but it’s important.

            They use timeouts in day cares too and then it’s more just a consequence for the kid, but it’s often treated like a universally effective consequence, and it’s really not.

            • Rachmo

              Hmmm that does make sense. Thanks for the explanation!

    • Mr. SD

      So what do you do if that ssa whopping doesn’t work? Whats ya 4th strike option?

      • LadyIbaka

        I’m not here to create options for my kid that will cater to their rebelliousness.

        • Mr. SD

          What if their needs require more options?

          • LadyIbaka

            ‘Needs’? A need in my eyes is food, clothing and shelter. A need is when my child is physically, emotionally and or mentally ill. A need is NOT hardheadedness. You want to test me as a mother in America? I will show you what it means to have an African mother. She or he is going back to Africa to study. Trust me, they’ll reform on the way and those ‘needs’ will stop being non issues. I ain’t even kidding!

            • Mr. SD

              I guess. I have a friend who’s child acts out and she was having a tough time in school and such. The child’s behavior was out of hand. She tried spankings and punishment and none of it worked. She tried therapy and that was the beginning of a solution. She fought hard to not use the suggested medication the therapist felt was needed but eventually used it. And now the child is doing very well in school and at home. I say all of that to say ther are special cases for children that have special needs and sometimes you being an African mother in America has nothing to do with it.

              • LadyIbaka

                In your friend’s case, her child has been DIAGNOSED with having a problem and is actually on medication. Now, THAT is a need. As I clearly stated, if my child has an emotional, physical, mental need, things are being handled way differently. But an issue of just being hardheaded, I’ve been there, done that, so that you wouldn’t.

                • Mr. SD

                  Takes time to get diagnosed. Early on she would say all the time her daughter was being ” hardheaded “…..

                  I get what you’re saying though, we all parent differently.

                  • LadyIbaka

                    I see your point now too. Didn’t think about it from that angle.

                • I see where you’re coming from, but you have to play it a bit smart. Also, it’s probably wise to get some ins for community sensitive help if available. They might be able to bridge the gap cultural speaking, and tell you the difference between legit issues and stuff that gets lost in the translation. (Though that’s usually a good idea for anyone out of the American hegemonic mainstream in general.)

                  • LadyIbaka

                    I don’t follow your point Todd. Why should I seek community sensitive help/guidance, as it pertains to how I raise my child? My parenting style will not be altered to fit the culture I’m in…whether American/Chinese, you name it. There is nothing getting lost in translation.

                    • What I mean is, from my experience in the mental health system as a volunteer, I’ve seen a lot of dumb ish from mental health pros who assume everyone is on some SWPL BS. That’s what I mean.

              • To be fair, people are often a product of the insight and foresight of their parents.

                I had similar circumstances in 2nd grade, where a young genteel white lady married to a fire man – whom she loved to show off to the envy of her female peers – just couldn’t deal with me and my mischievousness nature, and unlike my big ole 1st grade teacher, she didn’t know how to intimidate me into acting right by threatening to sit on me. The 2nd grade teacher convinced the school to hire an “expert” to evaluate me, and the evaluation ended up being ADHD (including myself, 3 out of 4 of the kids of in my family, have been diagnosed with some form of learning disability at one school or another, the only one who wasn’t is pretty much white like Carlton Banks and has spent the majority of his life around white folks, whereas the rest of us had not, and were exceptional students in Nigeria, where the educational system is a lot more demanding). The following year I was attending school in Nigeria. I’ve been fine ever since.

                When kids are restless, it’s because they’re generally bored, and unlike adults, children tend to have way too much energy boiling in them to just sit down and endure boredom, and this varies more or less to each individual child. This even applies to children who suffer from various forms of ADHD. The fact is that anyone who observes children knows that they have an ability to focus that is unprecedented by the adults, and when they are passionate and interested in something, they want to develop their interests; wise parents who have foresight push their kids in the right direction, say screw school and end up with people like this, rather than kids who simply conform and get called good, even though most of what they’re learning will be forgotten or useless to them in the grand scheme of things:

                http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EblQj_pZFlQ

                The greatest form of abuse that we assign to children, the one that will never be debated or argued, is how much we as a society waste their inherent talents and individuality, due to the fact that we are scared of rushing them into adulthood, so we teach them that conformity is good and the desire to make your own path is bad. It’s only when it’s mostly too late into adulthood that we realize how much of our talents were wasted, but by the time we’re adults we’re so scared of taking risks on our children, that we simply repeat history, and then are shocked that we have many kids who look upon us as enemies in our own home…go figure.

    • theokyoung

      He did go too far but we hate violent people but we love violent people. This man obviously sees high levels of violence as acceptable because he experienced it. If he could not endure violence he would not be in the NFL and we would not know who he is.

    • Guest

      This all day everyday, would you mind if I quoted you (your first paragraph) in a status post??

      • LadyIbaka

        Go ahead.

        • jolly

          Gracias!

  • BeautifullyHuman

    I believe in physical discipline but only in extreme situations. My mother told me of a time when she had to pop my a** and that was when I ran into the street. She said it pained her to hit me because I was small but she had to do it so I would never bolt again. I never did it again. Those are the rare times I think it’s okay to physically discipline your child, but for the most part, I think kids are smart and a** whoppings aren’t warranted.

    In the case of Adrian Peterson, this was excessive physical force. The child had open welts. In addition to that, Peterson stated that he hit the child between 10 and 15 times. That’s extremely excessive especially with a four year old.

    I have a four year old nephew and let me just say that if I ever see any wounds that look like the photos of Adrian’s son, somebody is getting effed up, whether that be his mom or whoever. No four year old deserves that kind of punishment.

    If Adrian felt the boy was doing something that he should not have been doing he could have used his stern voice to scare the child or pop the child once on his rear with an open hand. At that age, it’s not hard to discipline a child. If you use a certain tone with them, they typically stop what they’re doing. And if they don’t, then you might have to resort to popping them once, at the most twice.

    But 15 or more times…with a switch? I can’t reconcile that type of “discipline.”

    • Word up!

      Perfectly stated and exactly how I feel.

    • Exactly, whether you’re for or against spankings, this was a four year old stripped naked and struck 15-20 times. That’s excessive, that’s unnecessary, that’s abuse. I’m sure AD didn’t find that on reddit and that’s probably what he endured but times have changed, and Peterson should understand that, especially as a public figure

      • I think the operative word is excessive. Dude was wilding out with that switch. Yeah, his son was all the way wrong, but he managed to top his son.

    • LMNOP

      When my child was 4 she was actually very hard to discipline. I tried spanking, time outs, taking things away, etc, but none of it was particularly effective and she would fight back physically even with time outs, I pretty much had a few child inflicted bruises at all times for 2-3 years. And guess what? I have zero regrets about not abusing her.

      I do regret how much I yelled and how long it took me to find approaches that actually work with defiant kids, and when I did they pretty much all came from books specifically on children with challenging behavior, not advice from friends or relatives.

    • Tentpole

      Your right, at one time child abuse began with leaving permanent marks NO exceptions.

  • TheOtherJerome

    Point 1: Man Chris Carter went off didn’t he!

    Point 2: He’s right. And this is one of my personal issues. One of my favorite things to watch is various iterations of ” Sacred Straight” or interviews with brothas in jail. Invariably, one of them brings up the fact that kids today need discipline and their mama’s used to beat their butts back in the day. And of course the other inmates just nod and cosign in approval. Not a one will note that clearly, the beatings they received as children didn’t work!

    Antidotally, i’ve seen tons of “in and out of jail” types who swear about the level of beatings they got as children. Yet, i’ve never seen a hardened criminal discuss the lack of spankings/ beatings they received as a kid. Spare the rod spoil the child indeed.

    Point 3: Am i the only one who has noticed that the community populated by the decedents of slaves is the one most eager to defend the supposed necessity of violent child rearing by beatings with modern whips? That is, switches, belts, cords and what not? Are we men or are we savages? Not only do we beat our children, we exalt in it. I’ve heard many a sista brag about her gallant efforts in violently punishing her child.

    Point 4: Folks, violence begets violence. We are the most eager to met out “violent love” yet in return for our efforts, our community commits a disproportionate amount of violent crime. Its time to stop this cycle. I believe that if we treat each other as humans instead of dogs we’ll have better results

    Point 5: Is that Panama’s reflection in the Chris Carter video? :-)

    • TheOtherJerome

      From the Slate article on AP:

      “Spanking can increase a child’s risk of aggression, antisocial behavior, and mental health disorders later in life.”

      http://www.apa.org/monitor/2012/04/spanking.aspx

      • Please don’t buy anything that comes out of the APA or the DSM. First hand experience in the field of psychology teaches you the limitations of all the theories that come out of those associated with mental health.

        • TheOtherJerome

          The link i posted -did- quote a person who disagreed with the findings, so things aren’t totally settled. However, i still think their findings are worth discussion and can’t be dismissed.

          • People can have discussions about this if they like: the foundation of Applied Behavior Analysis (Behaviorism; ironically, I knew it was ABA’s influence before I even read the article) is based on such foundations, that all forms of punishment negatively influence human behavior and are therefore destructive and inefficient (ultimately that’s the end goal).

            And oh you should see the results of this form of psychology when it is put into practice, in my non-academic perspective, it actually increases violence and aggression, but I don’t think such research is likely to gain funding from the government, which has always been highly invested in behaviorism from the times of BF. Skinner. But hey, let me stop. I could go on all day on this lol.

            • TheOtherJerome

              “that all forms of punishment negatively influence human behavior and are therefore destructive and inefficient (ultimately that’s the end goal).”

              Now THAT seem a bit much lol

              • Just research Skinner and his modernized legacy in Applied Behavioral Analysis. The guy looks like and was a nut. He basically taught that free will was an illusion, and human beings were solely a product of the reinforcement they received from their environment alone. Any guy who has the hutzpah to entitle a book “Beyond Freedom and Dignity” and write that it was because of people’s belief in such concepts that a scientific utopia was unattainable to man deserves to have at least gotten slapped once. But no, this idiot that looks like an extra from “They Live” gets to have his BS theories funded by tax dollars and applied to Autistic kids, who get treated like Pavlov’s Dogs, under the guise of education, and get restrained like criminals when they don’t act like dogs who want a doggy snack….go figure.

                But hey it’s the APA, their bible being the DSM, the same bible that said 40 years ago that homosexuality was a mental disorder…what else can you expect from such a distinguished and intellectually honest institution?

    • LadyIbaka

      great points/questions, but minez still getting they ssa whoopty whooped.

    • lurker

      Re: #2–I don’t think the fact that “you’ve never seen a hardened criminal discuss the lack of spankings/beating they received” is a fair argument. There are a number of other variables including socioeconomic status/race that plays a role in one’s likelihood of going to jail and/or having disciplinary issues that would land one in jail. People with lower socioeconomic status are likely more apt to use spankings as a method of discipline, (at least in my experience as a higher percentage of “educated” folk make the decision to choose other methods of discipline) and are also more likely to land in jail. So one could argue that it’s the socioeconomic status that plays a bigger role in predicting whether a person will land in jail, and the type of discipline has no bearing.
      So just because folks in jail have mostly been spanked, doesn’t mean that spanking isn’t effective. It just means that out of those people who are spanked, there likely is a population of people who would have discipline issues no matter what method of discipline used, and that is who you’re polling when you’re polling criminals.

  • Peer Pressure > Whooping!!!

    Ironically, we try to govern the latter and not the former, maybe because we trust children to raise each other more than we trust parents, or at least fathers?

    Umm, spending a large part of my life in a culture that embraces and satirizes ass-whoopings (not having anything to do with slavery):

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KUvy8KqKGUw

    I can’t really say it works or it doesn’t work in installing values and discipline; I also find the idea – purposely propagated by psychologists and social service workers – that beatings lead to mental illness/degradation is easily falsified, given that this, like many psychological evaluations on the nature of human reaction to significant events, collapses, when you increase your scope and test your theories across different cultures. In many places deep in the south, many parents still beat their children with pride, and in some schools over there teachers are allowed to beat their children; ironically, southerners tend to be more polite that northerners (not claiming there’s a relationship, or even a correlation, just pointing out the silliness of reading deeper into it, than it actually is.)

    According to what I read, Adrian Peterson lost his mind; but Chris Carter has no business telling people how to raise their kids either, and is guilty of false equivalency, despite how passionate his comments were, if someone white had said what he said, we’d be fuming, because it’d be so blatantly racist. And for the record, it seems the context of the beating came about from seeing the 4 yr old son, push one of his other kids off one of those video game motorcycles, I don’t know how old the other kid was, but, if I remember those bikes, a kid falling off that could easily land on his head and receive some brain damage. I wasn’t there, but I don’t think “talking” would’ve been enough of a verbal warning in such a situation, if that’s what indeed happened.

    http://www.hominggame.com/uploadfile/WebEditor/2011111116302704.jpg

    • LadyIbaka

      I’m wiping TEARS! Oh mi gosh. Those two are a mess.

    • TheOtherJerome

      “we’d be fuming, because it’d be so blatantly racist”

      How so?

      “In many places deep in the south, many parents still beat their children with pride”

      also in the deep south many think the Civil War was a war of Northern aggression. The place is not necessarily a hotbed of forward thought.

      • If someone white, aligned the Ray Rice incident with the Adrian Peterson incident, and said black men do not respect women or children, you think we wouldn’t have a negative reaction?

        I don’t think there’s a relationship between false beliefs of the Civil War and beating your kids; does that apply to Christians too. And for the record, most people in the Northern part, still do it as well, it’s just not done in the open. Like east coast racism, everything is covert, passive aggressive and done with a phony smiley face.

        • TheOtherJerome

          “I don’t think there’s a relationship between false beliefs of the Civil War and beating your kids”

          Of course there is a relationship; they’re both stupid concepts lol.

          “If someone white, aligned the Ray Rice incident with the Adrian Peterson incident, and said black people do not respect women or children,”

          You know, when i watched i thought when he said “We” he meant “Men” in general. He’s talking about men not just Black Men….. or at least he never specifically said Black Men. He did single out Christians though.

    • Hey, that video was freakin’ hilarious. Still, I do know that every culture (well, save for Coastal Assimilated Whites in the US and the SWPL crowd) has their own unique way of getting in a child’s a$$. It’s among the many fun lessons you pick up from having friends in all sorts of different backgrounds. :)

      I do see your point though. I wouldn’t be so quick to say Spanking Is Bad, because there are usually a whole lot of other things going on that may or may not mess up a child.

  • Brad G

    Gather round I got a story to tell…

    I was about 7 or 8 years old, and I was runnin reckless around my grandparent’s house. My grandaddy was in the garage, and my very old and very sickly grandmother was watching me. She was tired of how I was disrespectin her house and attempted to whoop me. But I just kept running circles around her laughing and such. So she tells me go get a swtich. Meh. Grab a twig and bring it in. She then proceeds to grab her walker, (yes walker my nig) and go on a 20 minute escapade for the switch of all switches. By the time she gets back to the house I’ve moved on to watching Ninja Turtles and I’m laying on the floor. The very next thing I know I feel the wrath of God coming down on my legs. I mean I’m howling so badly my grandad comes in from the garage. I caught the smackdown and still have scars from that switchin’ to this day (I had recently gotten over the chicken pox and she caught some of the sores and turned them into scars).

    I say all that to say this: if a 4’9, 85lb 84 yo black woman coming off of open heart surgery can inflict that type of pain, then I wonder what a 6’2 230 lb Luke Cage lookin negro that constantly hits men BIGGER than him can do to a 4 year old. I am all for straightening out your kids through some physical disciplining methods but switches shoulda been outlawed with 4Lokos and the such.

    I hope All Day learns from this. And other parents as well. Things do become outdated.

    • Sigma_Since 93

      This reminds me of my Big Momma. I did the same thing and because she was blind, she waited until I went to sleep, sat on me and went to throwing haymakers. I don’t know what was worse having her sit on the small of my back or getting lumped up by a blind woman.

      I learned not to sell her short simply because she couldn’t see.

  • I’ll never understand why black people are so ardent in defending hitting children as punishment. There’s never been a successful study to my knowledge that has said it is an effective way to punish children. Moreover, a great many of the kids who got beat almost always testify that they continued to do the things that resulted in beatings! Honestly if there was some great correlation between beatings and great childhood behavior then there wouldn’t be a single misbehaving west Indian or African child.

    • If anything, beatings taught me how to better hide the bad things I was doing. I got extremely good at being deceptive. My brother got less beatings than me coming up, I suspect that was from witnessing me getting torn up lol. That being said, I know plenty of my peers who were hit and they’re currently serving time for some of the very same things they were beat for as children.

  • Kekanu

    The injuries to the child’s scrotum is proof that AP lost control. He acknowledged that he went too far and understood why the doctor had to report the injuries as child abuse. AP said the little boy wouldn’t cry, so he kept whipping him. At that point it was not about discipline, it was about frustration/ego. I have no doubt that AP loves his children, but there is no justification for beating a 4 year old until he/she bleeds. I’m not a parent, so what do I know?

    • Real talk, I literally just had a conversation with my husband about this prior to the AP story breaking. We talked about whether the point of discipline was to make the child cry or to punish them for wrongdoing. The mindset that a proud/stubborn child needs to be broken, needs to be brought to tears for the satisfaction of the parent is disturbing to me. You don’t whoop a child endlessly until he/she cries. You don’t whip *harder* so they cry. THAT is why AP’s little boy ended up with marks. His father tried to break him and he would not crack.

      This is not how we lovingly correct our children. It cannot be.

  • Black people do seem to have this predisposition to whippings as punishment, perhaps its due to the beatings our ancestors were given. I can’t cosign its effectiveness, you beat the child until he/she big enough to that you can’t beat them anymore and then when you want to communicate with them, there’s been no trust established. I don’t buy the “I turned out fine” notion because if you can honestly look back and think beatings were the reason you knew right from wrong and not just maturing and developing your own moral compass then those very beatings were very much in vain

    • I grew up in an area with very few Black people, but nearly every child I grew up with received spankings regardless of class or race. I find that other ethnic groups are not as vocal as some of us can be about spanking their children but they still spank their
      children. I agree that if your first resort is violence you cannot expect your child to trust or respect you when you are no longer able to control them by using physical force.

      • Kema

        I once saw a white man hit a child (about 8) with him knocking him to the floor. I don’t think its a race thing but it definitely seems to be a socio-economic thing.

  • I got shmoderated for no reason *throws fitted*

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