Pop Culture, Race & Politics, Theory & Essay

President Obama and The Same-Sex Marriage Stance

So today, Obama said in an interview that he supports same-sex marriage. This is a stark departure from his stance in 2008 when he pretty much opposed same-sex marriage but over time has stated that his thinking on the matter was evolving.

Evolving in this context is such a funny word. Evolution by definition alludes to continued growth. To say that his thinking is evolving almost implies that he had to grow as a person to acknowledge the truth of the situation, which is that marriage is for two people who loved and supported each other. The sex of those people should be secondary, if considered at all.

Let me state up front: I’m all for same-sex marriages. I have no qualms with it whatsoever. I think its a travesty that people are willing to fight SO hard to keep marriage “as it was intended” by the Bible.

I don’t mean to get all heretic or anything, but in my opinion, the Bible is a great book full of a lot of great stories. It’s the greatest quote book ever and the life lessons involved are definitely intended to help one live a fruitful and righteous life. Basically, the Bible is the extended version of the poem entitled “All I Really Need To Know I Learned In Kindergarten” I feel like nearly everything in the Bible is subject to interpretation. I’m also not alone in this thinking since nearly every religion and denomination has seen fit to interpret scriptures to fit their own leanings.

Granted, the Bible is a bit more clear when it comes to homosexuality and marriage. However, it’s a man-made document. And plus, what if I’m an atheist? (I’m not). But if I don’t believe in the Bible or God for that matter, why should I be constrained to the principles therein. A government that purports to separate church and state altogether gets to decide my martial status, effectively based on religious traditionalism? I have big problems with that.

And hell, what if I do believe in the Bible but still can’t help but be who I am? Gay people don’t think that being gay is a choice. So if God made me this way, is God also saying that he created me as an abomination and I’m effectively a reject from God’s kingdom? Hey God, it’s me Panama…inquiring minds would like to know.

It’s very big of Obama to make such a statement. I’m fairly certain that he’s the first sitting president to make such a bold statement about such a contentious issue. Though he did temper it a bit by immediately stating afterwards that it shouldn’t be a federal issue but a state issue. I’m not sure I agree with that. I’m aware that each state has its own set of rules, but marriage seems like such a cut-and-dry thing. Either you can or you can’t. Why fiddle with states rights in an issue as loaded as this; instead, just make a blanket across the board stance. That could be my Big Brother hat on though. I’ll acknowledge this.

I realize that there are significant numbers of people, probably even people who read this blog who think that same-sex marriage is religiously wrong (arguably true), and spiritually amoral. And everybody is entitled to their own opinion. I don’t think that same-sex marriages dilute the institution of marriage anymore than allowing 19-year-olds into the NBA dilutes the quality of play (debateable).

Are there lingering issues that needed to be sorted out? Sure. But it seems like gay people want to get married for the same reason straight people do….love, tax breaks, and benefits. Everybody should have a chance to the game the system, not just straight people. Plus, straight people have been f*cking up this whole marriage thing for a while now….shouldn’t we let somebody else have a chance?

Anyway, what do you all think about Obama making such a bold statement as President? Does it matter? Do you think it could ruin his chances come November for re-election?

Thoughts? Opinions? The floor is yours.

Talk to me.

-VSB P aka THE ARSONIST aka MR. OBAMA SAID WHAT? TURN THE CHANNEL BOO! aka GIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIRL HE A 3

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Damon Young

Panama Jackson is pretty fly for a light guy. When he's not saving humanity with his words or making music with his mouth, you can find him at your mama's mama's house drinking her fine liquors. He believes the children are our future and is waiting to find out if he is the 2nd most interesting man in the world.

  • Cali Mink

    Love who you want when you want. I dont need a politician to cosign that fact but it goes a long way to have the POTUS support

  • A Woman’s Eyes

    I am very proud of my president & I think he finally found some cajones in making a public stance for marriage equality for the LBGT community. I am thrilled. I am looking forward to a huge celebratory joyous wedding of 2 loved lesbians in my family. I look forward to many more gay couples experiencing the joy of wedding, a marriage and the legal rights that entitles them to each other’s property and life or death health care decisions & taxes.

    I also am hopeful that more people in the Black community will come out of the closet. The strong & vocal tide against gay marriages in the Black community, I truly believe is from closeted Black people who have internalized homophobia & self-hatred. I do not believe that people who claim to be against gay marriage for religious reasons are actually concerned that gay people will not make it to heaven with them. I think they are concerned about not being found out as gay or a family member of theirs not being found out as gay & “embarass” them or their family name. Just as racism can be internalized so can homophobia.

    • A Woman’s Eyes

      I do not believe that people = I do not believe that the same vocal people

      • Meisarebel

        And that clears up that. Scratch my previous response. :-P

    • Meisarebel

      “I do not believe that people who claim to be against gay marriage for religious reasons are actually concerned that gay people will not make it to heaven with them. I think they are concerned about not being found out as gay or a family member of theirs not being found out as gay & “embarass” them or their family name.”

      Or they just really don’t like gay people. I’m sure your statement holds some truth, but I doubt it’s “self hate” that is so dominant. Ignorance probably has more to do with it. And I can attest to that. I was and in some ways (though at this point minuscule ways) still am ignorant towards it.

      • Mo-VSS

        I agree. It’s ignorance. People hate what they don’t know. Couple that with the fear that is instilled around gay folks as if they are subhuman, and you have a race of people who SHOULD identify w/the struggle but choose not to see the similarities and subsequently become the biggest advocates against homosexuals.

      • Crystal

        Okay so I don’t agree with the statement that people who are against same sex marraige are either gay or hates gays.
        I don’t hate anyone. I believe everyone should be loved and is loved by God. I don’t know for sure where I stand on this issue. So I probably won’t vote on it at all.
        I don’t want to have an input in an outcome I’m not sure which side I want to take.
        On one hand, I do believe same sex marriage is wrong. On the other hand so is being unequally yoked, sex out of marraige, and whole lot of other things. Everything is equal in God’s eyes, so why do we insist on placing higher value on some sins and less on others. If any straight person can marry whomever they chose, even if it is wrong, why can’t gays? Let people be free to sin however they choose as long as it doesn’t put any physical harm on anyone else.

        So that’s my dilemma, still meditating on how I’ll vote for it.

        • http://wildcougarconfessions.com Wild Cougar

          Possibly because if you choose a particular sin as a lifestyle with no intention to ever repent or change, its worse.

          • http://www.twitter.com/JazziLuvsJazz Babes

            Hmmm… that’s a good point.

          • Crystal

            Thanks, I didn’t even think to see it that way.

    • kaname

      +1 !

    • SoupStarterGirl

      I agree wholeheartedly with gay marriage, but your belief that homophobia in the black community stems from self-loathing is absurd.

      I’ve heard gay people of all colors make the assertion that those who hate gays are simply gay themselves, and are reacting to internal hatred. I personally think this belief is wishful thinking. It’s as if many members of the gay community cannot bring themselves to believe that many simply hate them, have no concern for their civil rights, and no concern for their well-being.

      You see this in the number of non-black gays who have turned against the black community. Many of those people believe that the majority of Americans support them–except blacks. So they scapegoat blacks as the one group that doesn’t accept them. Ridiculous!

      • kaname

        Actually, there might be some *kind* of self-loathing going on…

        http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2012/04/09/homophobia-homosexuality-gay_n_1412846.html

        Article Quote: “Homophobics should consider a little self-reflection, suggests a new study finding those individuals who are most hostile toward gays and hold strong anti-gay views may themselves have same-sex desires, albeit undercover ones.”

        • http://wildcougarconfessions.com Wild Cougar

          Everyone who is against gay marriage, or who thinks homosexuality is wrong does not hate gays, they are not necessarily homophobic or bigots. They simply hold a different opinion. The demonization of and name calling of people who have a different opinion needs to stop before we can have any meaningful dialogue. Gays and their advocates should know something about demonization. Can you say hypocrisy?

          • mochazina

            +1

          • https://twitter.com/#!/IluminatiNYC Todd

            +2

          • sincereluv4life

            THANK YOU!!!!

          • YeahSo

            I get what you’re saying but anytime judgement comes into play we’re all automatically guilty of the same crime. I think it’s a sensitive issue that people closely associate with who they are as a person. So if you say “gays shouldn’t be able to marry” and they say you’re homophobic, why wouldn’t they think that.?.. you’re denying them a human right. I’m not saying it’s right for anyone to call anyone anything because of differences… but when a white family doesn’t want blacks in their neighborhood aren’t they automatically racists for denying blacks the human right to live anywhere they choose?

            People need to just back off and live their own lives. I couldn’t care any less than I do now about what gays do and that’s because at the end of the day I’d appreciate it if everyone else wouldn’t worrying about what I’m doing as well.

            • Meisarebel

              +3.75

          • kaname

            @WC – A homophobe per dictionary definition is a person with an extreme and irrational aversion to homosexuality and homosexual people.

            From all the news that I’ve been reading and watching, the homophobes are the loudest, more likely than not to ascribe to a mainstream religious domination and encourage others to share in their hate of gay people – discriminate against them and do violence against them. Some of these homophobes are then found out to enjoy the company of the same sex – (looks at the rash of Republican politicians who are found to have a gay escort or soliciting “gay” sex).

            Homophobes can continue to enjoy their hate but the problem of course is when they are given *power* to deny people equal rights, discriminate against them and kill them. That is the reality that gay people deal with in the world.

            I would hope that people won’t call a person homophobic unless they’ve said or done something that harms a gay person; just as I would hope that someone won’t be called a racist unless they’ve said or done something that harms a person of colour.

            • http://wildcougarconfessions.com Wild Cougar

              Eh, you’re stretching the definition a little too thin. A white person can be against having me as a neighbor because it could lower the property value. A parent could be against having me as a daughter in law because they don’t want a more difficult life for their son and grandchildren. Doesn’t make them racist.

              Just because someone says something that might negatively affect me doesn’t mean they hold animosity towards me. I truly don’t see how you don’t get this simple concept.

              • YeahSo

                “A white person can be against having me as a neighbor because it could lower the property value.”
                -Wait… WHAT??? Now I’m lost. You think the color of skin can bring down property value? Be for real and stop acting like you don’t see the comparison. Christians and gays are hypocrites… split the difference and call it even already.

              • kaname

                I’m not stretching the definition at all. Let’s look at the scenario you just posited: you won’t know that your white neighbor has a problem with you unless he acts/behaves in a way that lets you know that he has no love for you right? After all his hate is not harming you. You would have no cause to call him a racist. Then when he decides to get his fellow residents to make you leave the neighbourhood ’cause he hates you, you’d agree that he’s harming you right? ’cause now you have no place to live. You wouldn’t call him a racist then right, just a white guy trying to maintain his neighborhood property values.

      • A Woman’s Eyes

        ” You see this in the number of non-black gays who have turned against the black community. Many of those people believe that the majority of Americans support them–except blacks. So they scapegoat blacks as the one group that doesn’t accept them. Ridiculous!”

        I do not believe that White gay people had the Black community’s back in the first place. Back when they were in the closet, they still gathered up the benefits of White male privilege. Then when the tide changed, and White homosexual men had the ability to earn the highest income (in the gay community, shoot in the gay & straight communities) they were able to mobilize politically.

        That criticism by very politically vocal White homosexuals has to do with racism.

        California was a prime example of that. California had a HUGE following of Christian WHITE people who raised millions of dollars to be able to vote Yes on Proposition 8. They raised MILLIONS of dollars to even have t.v. commericals speaking up against gay people disrupting family values, and urging White families (they never had Black families in those commericals!) to vote YES on Prop. 8

        Yet our Black asses were blamed for the first time Prop. 8 was passed.
        We have far far less political wealth to do what the conservative White people did on this issue.

        • http://pinchmycheekie.wordpress.com Cheekie

          This very issue has pissed me off on so many levels. Because once again, the push to unite is cast aside to focus on the divide. The sole label of “Blacks hate gays” in terms of Prop 8 was so disgusting particularly for the reasons you listed, A Woman’s Eyes.

          Specifically, that one label gives the racism WITHIN the gay community to hide behind it. They can’t use that “but you know how it’s like to be discriminated against!” if it’s happening within their own community as well.

          That’s what makes this issue so complex and filled with so many levels. My FULL support of gay marriage and gay equality doesn’t mean I can turn a blind eye to these very issues. And yeah, part of my pissivity (word to Dwayne Wayne) is based on the fact that these internal issues only make it more difficult for general progress to be made.

        • JEHeartbreak

          Truth!

  • Meisarebel

    Bold statement? Very much so. Ruin chances? Nah. I don’t really think it matters either way. From what VERY little I know about American politics, the super conservative are probably the only ones who still strongly oppose same sex marriage anyway, and I doubt Obama got their votes the first time around, so don’t see how this is gonna hurt him anyway.

    On a personal note, I’ve “evolved” into being indifferent. Coming from a culture where popular music is anti-gay, I was pretty homophobic before coming to America. And even my first year here was a HUGE cultural adjustment in regards to homosexuals. But now I’m like “whatever.” Do I support gay marriage? No. Am I against it? No. Do I really care anymore? No.

    • https://twitter.com/#!/Think2Inspire Think2Inspire

      Yo, so many of my West Indian brethren go through the same cultural adjustment that you had to go through. Being raised in the US by uber religious parents, they taught me that homosexuality was wrong. But I don’t like listening to people so I ignored them, thinking it was some crazy backwards island sh*t. When my male cousins came to the US they were scared of all men. One cousin though gay pride parades happened weekly. That level of anxiety is crazy to me. Now, they really don’t care.

      About a year ago, I went home and my dad told me “Why doesn’t the news leave gay people alone.They aren’t doing anything to anyone.” I almost DIED!!! If the most religious Caribbean man I know can say that, there is hope for humanity. As far as Omama, politics is politics.

      • nillalatte

        There are many gays in the middle east too. More than I ever thought existed because of the whole sexuality issue there in general. But, I learned quickly when I was there that there is this whole underground of gay couples. One lady approached me when I was visiting a family and told me how wonderful it was that when she went to NY there was a gay pride parade in which she participated. It was my first realization that she was so excited because she could be so open and free in her sexuality.

        • https://twitter.com/#!/Think2Inspire Think2Inspire

          Nilla, yes! I want to hug your comment.

          Sometimes I be musing about what the world would be like if everyone was comfortable with their sexuality. The line between heterosexual and homosexual would be so blurred we’dbe like hippies in the 70′s n sh*t.

      • https://twitter.com/#!/IluminatiNYC Todd

        And there’s hope for the West Indian community. I think in the West Indies, the rise of homophobia is directly connected to the economic issues in the islands post-colonialism. Not everyone was able to get it together in that period, the governments didn’t have the resources to help, so they had to choose a scapegoat. Sadly, the “batty boy” ended up being the lucky contestant.

        • Meisarebel

          That’s news to me. But if that IS how it started, that sure as hell doesn’t mean squat now. Homophobia in the Caribbean is perpetuated simple because it’s disgusting and unnatural in the eyes of many (and I was, and in some ways still am included in this group). Economy and religion had very little to do with it. Growing up, the argument against gays was hardly ever about God.

    • http://wildcougarconfessions.com Wild Cougar

      Black evangelical democrats who are socially conservative and voted for George W and Obama may stay home. They live in the southern states Obama narrowly won.

      • https://twitter.com/#!/IluminatiNYC Todd

        Though truth be told, I think it’ll make a difference more in places like Ohio, Michigan and Pennsylvania. Barring a miracle amount of turn out, he has no chance in North Carolina, and he’s facing long odds in Virginia. We’ll see though.

      • http://www.mysixcents.wordpress.com K. LySha

        That almost describes my minister mother…except she didn’t vote for George W. She lives in Alabama and is surrounded by that type of conservative thinking. I had a very disturbing conversation with her last night in which she said she might not vote at all this year because Obama took this position. I was so disappointed and upset. And there is no point in trying to argue logic against that position. It just doesn’t work. Oh yeah and to top it all off my younger brother is gay. This may contribute in part to her strong stance against this. She just found out he was gay last year and has had a really hard time coming to terms with it. By hard time I mean she hasn’t come to terms with it at all.

        If my own mother who I thought was more forward thinking than that decides not to vote then I won’t be surprised if that attitude is running rampant in the south.

      • Just Me

        I actually live in Ohio and have been involved in Obama’s re-election campaign efforts. My neighborhood grassroots organization had a meeting today and the leader was saying that since Obama’s statement regarding homosexuality, she’d gotten call after call from local religious leaders saying that they would not be voting for Obama in November because it conflicted with their religious beliefs.

        As an observer of this attitude locally and among my peers, I desperately need to understand what it is about homosexuality that makes even the most heathen of us jump up and get to talking about the Bible and what God “said”. Conservative religious leaders have had PLENTY of opportunities to jump off the Obama boat because of how they interpret the Word and where Obama has stood. What is it about THIS that makes people suddenly want to get behind doing “what God wants”? The SAME people who talk at length about how wrong “picking and choosing” in the Christian faith is are often the SAME people doing it.

        I need answers.

  • Prof Chris Chambers

    Its not about religion away. It’s about who is a citzen and what are your ciil rights as a human being, and the 14th amendment to the constitution (which gave we black folks our legal personhood). Funny the Lovings heard the same religious crap when thy brough their case I the Suoreme Court. If they’d have listened to it, Barack Obama definitely wouldn’t have been a legal baby, and thus never have President.

  • That Ugly Kid

    So, another incident where people make stupid decisions on the basis of religion? This is nothing new. At all. Though it’s alarming how people have no mind of there own. They will base their choices off of book. The same exact book, in fact, that condones slavery, misogyny, rape, and forced marriages. This is why religion is a problem in society. Because people have the power to affect someone else’s life like this. And why? Because it’s an “insult to my religion?”. Really? So your beliefs come before someone else’s right to happiness? Bullsh*t.

    Glad to know to can do bullsh*t in this country and get away with it because “it’s in the Bible.” Awesome. So if someone gets gangraped and the culprits are arrested, can I jump up and say “Nope, let em go. Rape is quite alright. Arresting these fine gentlemen is an insult to the Bible. However, I saw two guys down the street holding hands, fire at will.”

    But, I promised myself I wouldn’t rant. So, I’m good.

    • Meisarebel

      Hmm. You do realise that generalising all religion like that is no better than those people who use religion as a clutch, right?

      • That Ugly Kid

        I realise that religion, throughout history, has ALWAYS done more harm than good. Always. That is a fact. Religion would be fine if people used it solely to better their own lives. But they don’t. Most of the time, it is used to belittle someone else’s existence, and causes more problems than it is supposed to solve. Most people use it to justify their own bigotry. It’s sickening. Take these tweets for example:

        http://www.buzzfeed.com/mjs538/these-are-the-people-who-are-happy-amendment-one-p

        • Meisarebel

          I disagree. Religious folk, hell, the Christian community in particular, is large as the fk. And “most times” it’s a small group of those “super-nonsensical-Christians” that are just extremely vocal. Thus, it appears that “most Christians” are this way. I don’t agree with the statement that “most people use it… Blah blah blah.” Sorry.

          • That Ugly Kid

            Hey, that’s your decision. If you choose to ignore the numerous occasions where religion was brought up to make a point in this country (Obama’s presidential run being one of those times), then that’s on you. You can ignore the facts, or even try to downplay them, but that doesn’t erase them. This “super small group of nonsensical Christians” you mention is a lot bigger than you care to admit. A sh*t ton. They actually make up the majority of the country statistically. They may not all act on their beliefs, but they acknowledge them.

            • MJoy

              You should probably know that a lot of people do/have done things in the name of Christianity but these people aren’t in fact Christians at all.

              An actual Christian would never desire to cause the harm you speak of.

            • Meisarebel

              I’m not ignoring anything, nor am I saying that religion hasn’t been used for some absurd justifications. My disagreement with you stems from your generalisation of religion, as though “the majority” of religious folks use religion to justify their bigotry. That, my friend, is absurd. The same way you state that the “small super nonsensical group” is much larger than I seem to believe, you may be missing my point that in contrast to the entire population of religious folk, especially Christians, that group IS small. A million people is a shit ton. Catholics ALONE are in the billions on this here earth. Not to mention other denominations, not to mention other religions outside Christianity.

              So again, I’m not arguing with you on the clutch of religion. I’m arguing with you on your generalisation. There’s a difference. Side note, didn’t Obama win by POPULAR vote? Meaning far more people voted for him than Cain? I’m pretty sure there were religious folk in their too. Probably much more (a whole ton) than the other party. So that argument is kinda void here.

            • Sigma_Since 93

              TUK,

              The point your attempting to make is missing a few pieces so I’ll fill in. The desire for religious groups to convert non-believers is the crux of your arguement. If Islam and Christianity did not have passages that spoke to converting the non-believers, the Holy wars of old, missionaries, and the Middle East chrisis as we know it would not exist.

              • kaname

                This is what I find interesting about modern Judaism. They don’t proselytize.

    • http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=M5FR1LGsT7E TheAnti-Cool

      “They will base their choices off of book. The same exact book, in fact, that condones slavery, misogyny, rape, and forced marriages.”

      THIS. The biggest problem I have is those that pick and choose what parts of the bible to believe in. I feel if you can’t believe in ALL of it then you should believe in NONE of it. If it’s God’s word, He would expect nothing less, no?

      • http://pinchmycheekie.wordpress.com Cheekie

        I actually agree with you that folks pick and choose certain things that are convenient for them, but I do have to ask where the line is drawn… in general. Given the evolved world we live in today, it’s basically impossible to abide by the EXACT traditions dictated in the Bible thousands of years ago.

        I think it’s why folks see it as symbolic, and not something to take literally.

        • http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=M5FR1LGsT7E TheAnti-Cool

          But there are those that take parts of it literally. And those that take it all literally.

          It also begs the question, why do people take anything in a book that’s thousands of years old and has been translated and interpreted by so many different people as gospel and/or a guide to their modern life? Basic morals are just that, basic. If you need any book to tell you right from wrong you’ve already lost imo.

          • afronica

            “If you need any book to tell you right from wrong you’ve already lost imo.”

            +1. I’ve never understood why people needed religion to tell them to treat their neighbors as they would want to be treated, to care for children and keep them from harm, to honor their parents, etc. It seems so basic. The concept of Jesus as a savior, and achieving salvation through Him alone? Ok, I can see needing religious belief for that. But primum non nocere? Can’t we handle that on our own?

          • Tonya

            But who told you right from wrong? It’s not instinctual..it’s taught. From your parents, from society, from religion..ultimately (from those that aren’t spiritual) from man.

            If you can follow and get your morals from man without the Bible, why can’t followers of the Bible adhere to teachings and morals ..written by man?

            Men wrote the Bible..but who inspired the man to right it? That’s debateable.

            If you believe God had nothing to do with the Bible then you (figuratively) can’t begrudge those who live by it because they are following the same morals as you..derived from man.

            • http://pinchmycheekie.wordpress.com Cheekie

              “If you believe God had nothing to do with the Bible then you (figuratively) can’t begrudge those who live by it because they are following the same morals as you..derived from man.”

              EXACTLY. The morals ain’t from an inanimate object, someone wrote them. Just because it’s been immortalized from a book doesn’t mean it didn’t come from the same place that EVERYone learns their morals from.

              Because like you said, we don’t come out the womb knowing right from wrong.

              • http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=M5FR1LGsT7E TheAnti-Cool

                So what is this place that EVERYone learns their morals from? God? If it comes from man, who did the first men learn it from?

                I sincerely believe that if you have compassion, a conscience, some things just FEEL right or wrong without anyone having to tell you. It seems as if you are saying we are all born sociopaths and would never learn to be otherwise without the Bible or some similar text to guide us.

                I feel as if religion makes us sell ourselves short and depend too much on outside forces and influences.

            • MJoy

              slow clap for Tonya

            • http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=M5FR1LGsT7E TheAnti-Cool

              Imo the Bible isn’t about teaching right from wrong, it’s about controlling people through fear. These are the things you need to do or else.

              That’s not about education; that’s about domination. Hiding this behind “God’s Love” doesn’t change anything. Hard to feel the love when you have eternal damnation hanging over your head all the time. Do right because you should not because you are afraid of what will happen if you don’t.

    • http://afrikanmami.blogspot.com Locks of Love

      *Hey crater inducer*!!!! ;)

      • That Ugly Kid

        Nubian Goddess, how does the day befall you, my dear?

        • http://afrikanmami.blogspot.com Locks of Love

          it is a-okay,darling. warr about you?

          • That Ugly Kid

            Pretty great. The weather is getting warmer. Meaning females will start wearing less layers of clothing outside. I’ve been keeping in shape as to best attract these scantily clad vixens. My plan will soon be put in motion!

            • http://afrikanmami.blogspot.com Locks of Love

              loool! You are young, wild and energetic…..so you are allowed.

              • That Ugly Kid

                You d*mn skippy. I will continue to take advantage of my youthful body’s benefits. Most importantly my curiousity as well as my seemingly infinite stamina. I don’t want to be 30 years old and regretting that I never cut loose back when I have the youth for it.

    • http://pinchmycheekie.wordpress.com Cheekie

      “So, another incident where people make stupid decisions on the basis of religion? This is nothing new. At all.”

      I have to wonder, though… is it right to blame the religion itself or… more effectively, the people who abuse it? Folks use inherently good things to do bad things all the time. Blaming the very basis of Christianity for the fact that the PEOPLE behind it used it for evil reminds me of when folks blamed Muslims or the basis of Islam for terrorism.

      • Tonya

        But to the op that doesn’t matter bc he seems to generalize about Muslims as well. It’s all religious people that got issues.

        My problem is making generalizations and calling them ‘facts’. Religion has caused more harm than good- is an opinion. Show me the scientific study that has been vetted by qualified peers before you call something a fact, sir.

        • Meisarebel

          My. Point. Exactly.

        • http://pinchmycheekie.wordpress.com Cheekie

          “My problem is making generalizations and calling them ‘facts’. Religion has caused more harm than good- is an opinion. Show me the scientific study that has been vetted by qualified peers before you call something a fact, sir.”

          Basically. AND you’d have to document the facts from BOTH the bad and good… not just the bad. Otherwise, no solid comparison can be made. And welp, that documentation is dayum near impossible, so…

          But yeah, I used that example (Islam) because of how harmful and dangerous that thinking can be. And downright bigoted.

        • That Ugly Kid

          You mean like the widely known fact that more wars and bloodshed were started in the name of religion than any other reason? The widely known fact that churches tried to suppress scienctific findings and research because scientists were discovering things that went against both the Bible and the churches teachings? Yea, I got my facts, where’s yours?

    • 2Peace

      My man,
      Your assertions about the “book” I assume you are referring to as the Bible, are PATENTLY wrong. No where does the Bible condone any of the things you described. In fact I can refute most of those negatives from the book of Genesis alone.
      For example, in the story of Jacob’s daughter, Dinah, you have his sons avenging their sister after she was raped and kidnapped by a prince, a prince who hoped to “take” her in marriage. Those guys slaughtered the whole city, took spoils. Why? To protect the honor of their sister. So that one story, refutes your misogyny, rape, forced marriages argument all at once. And read Paul’s writings in the New Testament (as well as portions of the Old Testament) to see what the Bible really says about slavery.

      • That Ugly Kid

        1. Sorry, but that one story doesn’t do it. Especially when there are PLENTY of other stories where rape was perfectly okay. Such as the story (Judges 19: 23-4) when a priest and his spouse came to visit a man’s home and all the men in the village formed a mob, wanting to sodomize him (the priest). Instead, the man happily told them, here, rape my daughter and the priest’s wife, but leave the priest alone. And the mob literally gangraped the priest’s wife to death. And the priest didn’t even care. Both the Old and New Testaments are filled with stories like these.

        2. The Old Testament is extremely brutal. You’re doing yourself a disservice by even mentioning it.

        • 2Peace

          TUK,
          That story in Judges isn’t meant to glorify rape but to show the ugliness of all types of sin. That’s what’s great about the Bible: it shows human nature as it truly is.

          The key statement in Judges is “everyone did what was right in their OWN eyes”. Sounds like modern-day American culture, doesn’t it?

          My man, I can assure you that, after reading the Bible for over 20 years since I was 19, rape is never, ever condoned. I’d say, re-read it for yourself, bruh.

          • sincereluv4life

            +10

            I’m so happy you shed more light on that 2Peace

            This country was founded on principles that came from the Bible & the country has been blessed because of it. It is sad to see how people think somehow turning away from God to follow their own minds & hearts will lead to greater success.

  • http://panamaenrique.wordpress.com Malik

    It’s cool. There are more pressuring issues for Black gay people than marriage though.

    • Aly

      Who’s to decide what’s most important to each individual? Marriage just might be the most important issue.

      • http://panamaenrique.wordpress.com Malik

        That’s what I’ve gathered from speaking to my Queer Black friends/associates/random people.

    • hehe

      Hmm you might have a point. Gay marriage is seen as a gay white man activism. Seldom you see on the news black gays perticularly black gay men speak out for gay marriage.

      I think black gays have more day to day struggles to deal with that doesn’t include gay marriage such as their safety and homelessness(gay teen getting kicked out of their house because their gay), and employment discrimination. Heck we saw this played out last week with the story of the gay teen fearing for his safety bringing a stung gun to school. Violence against gays perticularly black gays is a pressing issue.

      Don’t get me wrong, I’m in favor of same sex marriage. Marriage is a legal contract in which two ppl agree to share assets. Maybe that is why gay marriage is so big amongst white males(besides loving each other) because they are on average more financially well of and want to protect their partner and family.

      Heck there’s quite a few gay ppl of color who aren’t even in favor of gay marriage for a number of reasons including it being too heteronormative.

      • http://commentarybyvalentina.wordpress.com/ Val

        “Seldom you see on the news black gays perticularly black gay men speak out for gay marriage.”

        That’s because when the media looks for a gay or lesbian person to speak about LGBT issues they do what they always do and find a White person.

        Telling Black gay and lesbian people that we have bigger problems than marriage rights is akin to Whites telling Black people in general not to worry about racism because we have other problems like out-of-wedlock births. All groups have issues and like other groups we, Black LGBT folk, are able to multitask.

        • hehe

          “Telling Black gay and lesbian people that we have bigger problems than marriage rights is akin to Whites telling Black people in general not to worry about racism because we have other problems like out-of-wedlock births.”

          I think your analogy is a little hyperbolic. Yes we can multitask as you put it but when do you hear about LGBT issues closely related to black gays? Heck LGBT issue are rarely discuss on black blogs. Like Malik stated many gay people of color even famous ones feel like there are bigger issues rarely discuss.

  • http://www.awordorthree.com Crystal Marie

    A gay man called into NPR today and was crying so hard I could barely understand but I realize he said, “For the first time… a President recognized my humanity.”

    :)

    • Aly

      Wow, that’s deep. And very touching. I must admit, when I heard the President’s announcement on the news I just kept thinking “whoa- this is a huge moment”. I think it’s a real turning point in the fight for equal marriage rights and will go down in history as such. I was so proud of President Obama for taking such a bold stance thisclose to the election.

    • A Woman’s Eyes

      Awww, man!

  • http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=M5FR1LGsT7E TheAnti-Cool

    I’m proud that the president took a stand on such a divisive issue. I don’t think he’s risking his campaign because anybody that would NOT vote for him based on this issue alone is likely ignorant and deserving of having RomBot become their fearless leader.

    My personal views on marriage in general are rather negative but if gays want to be as miserable as straights I say let them. It doesn’t affect me personally so it’s not my place to say yea or nay to what two consenting adults want to do with their lives. And if the Bible is the only reason you are against homosexuality you need several seats and a few books not full of bullsht to occupy yourself.

    • Justmetheguy

      “My personal views on marriage in general are rather negative but if gays want to be as miserable as straights I say let them. It doesn’t affect me personally so it’s not my place to say yea or nay to what two consenting adults want to do with their lives. And if the Bible is the only reason you are against homosexuality you need several seats and a few books not full of bullsht to occupy yourself.”

      Well…looks like I don’t need to say a d*mn thing. You articulated my thoughts on the issue lol

    • https://twitter.com/#!/Think2Inspire Think2Inspire

      “My personal views on marriage in general are rather negative but if gays want to be as miserable as straights I say let them.”

      *slow clap*

    • Royale W. Cheese

      I’m proud that he made a clear statement on the issue, too. His actions around marriage equality are nothingto write home about, but I do give him major props for vocalizing his stance.

    • https://twitter.com/#!/mackaroto Jay

      Agree on everything you said except for this:

      I don’t think he’s risking his campaign because anybody that would NOT vote for him based on this issue alone is likely ignorant and deserving of having RomBot become their fearless leader.

      Only because RomBot wouldn’t be THEIR fearless leader, he would be OUR fearless leader.

      • Yoles

        :(

    • Aly

      “And if the Bible is the only reason you are against homosexuality you need several seats and a few books not full of bullsht to occupy yourself.”

      You know, I struggle with my faith a lot. I mean a lot. But it still makes me cringe when someone calls the Bible a “book full of bullsht”. Seems somehow disrespectful and dismissive.

      • A Woman’s Eyes

        I won’t disrespect anyone’s religion or religious texts. If I truly believe I treat people with respect, then that includes this. That’s like saying eff your couch, eff your mama. I believe in & appreciate the freedoms that my country grants people as an appreciative American.

        • http://pinchmycheekie.wordpress.com Cheekie

          Right. I don’t need my beliefs to be defined by downgrading someone else’s. If that’s the case, said beliefs ain’t that strong in the first place. I respect everyone’s right to believe… especially since it don’t affect my life in ANY way whatsoever.

          Which… ain’t that funny… is the SAME argument for pro-gay marriage (which I am as well). Yop, I let people cook. Whether I agree with it or not.

          • http://www.shay-d-lady.com shay-d-lady

            my great aunty use to say all the time.
            i gots enough trouble doing my on job to try to do jesus’ job as well.

            and i completely agree

      • Meisarebel

        Agreed. And I don’t even read that jawn.

      • http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=M5FR1LGsT7E TheAnti-Cool

        I suppose that comment is both those things but that is how I feel. I really don’t know a nicer way to express myself on that. I tend to use strong language when I feel strongly about something. Makes me really fun at parties.

        • Aly

          I think you’re selling yourself short. I’ve read your comments for awhile and you seem like a very eloquent person. Surely there’s a “nicer” way to make your point about something you disagree with.

          • http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=M5FR1LGsT7E TheAnti-Cool

            You’re right. I can when I care enough to try.

            On one hand, I don’t fault people for believing in something I don’t cause you use whatever you can to get through this so-called life.

            On the other, I’m kind of an @sshole when it comes to religion in general and I was being flippant with that comment. I wasn’t trying to offend but then I wasn’t really trying NOT to either.

        • Tonya

          There is a fine line between giving an opinion and being harmful.

          My question is this what’s the difference between..

          The Bible and (by inferred extension) those that believe in it, are full of shit..

          And

          Homosexuality is an abomination and those that do so are going to hell?

          I can tell you the similarity.. These are human statements that (in my opinion) seem to be lacking in empathy and compassion.

          • http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=M5FR1LGsT7E TheAnti-Cool

            I don’t see how I inferred that those that believe in the bible are full of sht. At most I would say they are misguided and/or misinformed.

    • WayUPThere

      I have to join the choir here (pun intended) and agree with above. Your argument/position was fine and well-articulated until that last shot at the Bible.

      You don’t have to like a religion or agree with anything it says, but you don’t need to defame it’s holy book, whether it’s the Torah/Talmud, the Qur’an, the Sruti, the Bible, or any other sacred text.

      • Sigma_Since 93

        Stands up and applauds.

        The only reason we’re talking about the bible so much is because Christian’s got to the new world first thus Christian influence / overtone. If the Moor’s got here first, it makes you wonder if we would be having this discussion or it the currency would read in Allah we trust.

  • https://twitter.com/#!/cnote220 Cheech

    I salute the President for taking a stance that was a long time coming. Whether you believe people are born gay or become gay is irrelevant, but I feel that for a country that’s “based” on freedom and tolerance, why can’t same sex couples be married? A heterosexual couple can go to Atlantic City and get married and have it annulled within a week at Atlantic City, whereas a same-sex couple have very limited options. I never understood the idea of the “sanctity” of marriage, so I was wondering if someone can explain it to me. Considering that the rate of divorce and adultery are pretty high in this country, I hardly see the sanctity of it. On Easter, I went to a friend’s church since the racism started popping up at the normal church my family attends and I was asked to sign a referendum against same sex marriage. Imagine the lady’s surprise when I told her no because I feel that they should have the right to be called a family with the spousal rights that they are often denied. My friend at 22 yrs of age also told me I should sign it because the Bible is against it and Sodom and Gomorrah burnt down because of it. That was when it really hit me how stupid the argument against same sex marriage was. I do think a Bible is a good book but it seems kind of dated…

  • b sweet

    If same sex couples are interested in throwing away their hard earned money for a ceremony in an industry that currently yields over $50 BILLION, to be recognized in an institution with over 50% failure rate, to be acknowledged in an antiquated religious and societal practice with no hint of evolving to become relevant to the current needs of modern Americans, then, by all means, have at it and have a ball!!

    • http://panamaenrique.wordpress.com Malik

      I agree with your sentiment regarding marriage. But there are a myriad of legal and economic benefits that are only afforded to married couples that doesn’t extend Civil Unions or people in long monogamous relationships with zero government recognition. For example, you can’t make medical decisions for your partner if they fall ill and are unable to sign off on anything at the hospital, there are a great many tax benefits, and so and so forth.

      • b sweet

        True that Malik, true that! They can have that too. I have no opinion on gay marriage. We love to judge the sins we can ‘see’. We should be more concerned with the things we can’t see.

        • http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=M5FR1LGsT7E TheAnti-Cool

          I’ve found that most people treat “God’s Laws” as friendly suggestions until it benefits them not to.

          • b sweet

            right about it, right about it TAC

          • Justmetheguy

            ” I’ve found that most people treat “God’s Laws” as friendly suggestions until it benefits them not to.”

            Nods head again as I follow her brilliant leadership lol

            • http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=M5FR1LGsT7E TheAnti-Cool

              Are you sure you want to follow me? I might be leading us both to the most fiery of Hell’s pits.

              • nillalatte

                TAC, you might be leading a parade! LOL

              • SheWhoMustBeObeyed

                I will go with you!!!

                LOL I’m not saying much today, you seem to be articulating a lot of my thoughts.

              • Justmetheguy

                lol, YES! I’m already goin to hell. To be honest, I’m of the same belief as Curtis Mayfield. “If there’s hell below, we’re all gonna go” lol

                • MJoy

                  Don’t talk about my baby like that! You’re not going anywhere mister!

      • http://wildcougarconfessions.com Wild Cougar

        There are legal documents that can be drawn up, pretty easily, to take care of medical and financial decisions. People do it with family members they are taking care of all the time. This isn’t a real issue. The gay rights movement says this all the time, but they know better. They just bank on the fact that most people don’t know that.

        • mochazina

          again, +1

        • b sweet

          Good point WC

        • https://twitter.com/#!/IluminatiNYC Todd

          I know what you’re talking about, but I don’t think it’s a fair comparison. I once met a heterosexual dude who was living with a woman and, for his own reasons, decided not to get married. As a part of making sure his kids were taken care of heaven forbid he spent a few grand drawing up some paperwork to make sure that was taken care of. Now as a straight guy, he freely chose not to marry and go that route. However, a gay couple doesn’t have that choice.

          Also, being that I’m serving as power of attorney of my elderly aunt, I see the issues that take place with documents like that. Just because it’s written down doesn’t keep people from acting a fool. To be fair, marriage itself doesn’t stop people from acting a fool with serious issues either. However, being married at least gets a foot in the door in the way all that paperwork doesn’t.

          • Mo-VSS

            Thank you.

          • kaname

            +2

        • nillalatte

          WC, that’s with the assumption of pre-planning. There are a lot of heterosexual couples that are just as lazy when it comes to advance directives and estate planning. Which now that we’re talking about it, I need to review the documents I have too. After I took my Wills, Trusts & Estates course, I developed documents to provide for my kids in the event of my death or incapacitation. Just like with health care, a lot of folks don’t make sure their wishes are covered legally either.

        • Sigma_Since 93

          +10

          There are lawers where there entire practice is addressing the needs of the gay community. Back in the day when I was a stock broker, one of the big frims was holding a seminar on how to pass assets in the gay community and avoid some of the tax implications.

        • sincereluv4life

          very good point Wild Cougar, a lot of what the gay agenda is pushing for with gay marriage is not for the same rights as a man & woman (because I work in health insurance & sometimes they make out better than the married couples lol), but to try & discredit the beliefs held in Christianity. If gay marriages are legalized, then churches have to recognize it, if churches don’t recognize it then they’re discriminating, if churches are discriminating then they can have their $$’s revoked—- it’s not a pretty sequence of events for those who believe that marriage should be between a man & a woman.