Race & Politics, Theory & Essay

Does The N-word Trump All Other Slurs?

olympicA few weeks back, one of the homeys sent me a video of an incident on a Metro train in DC. See, some wayward white man on the Green Line (notoriously known as the “Soul Train” in the area due to its propensity to run only through Prince George’s County, MD and DC), got into a kerfluffle with some riders. According to the comments, he had been rude and pushing his way onto the train; this is not an uncommon practice for anybody during rush hour in DC.

Well, apparently he pushed the wrong person and a shouting match ensued. At the point we get video we hear him refer to a woman (while being surrounded by Black people, mind you) as a “n*gger”. Multiple times. As opposed to the ass whipping you think he’d receive, folks were more like, “dog, why does it have to be all that…” I’m still baffled at the fact that he did not catch a beat down. He managed to be on the train with the most civil rights minded individuals in the DC-area, I assure you.

Anyway, when somebody asks him why he referred to her as the dreaded n-word, he shoots back with “she called me a f*ggot”. Now, on tape, we did not hear this. This doesn’t mean it didn’t happen. But we never heard it. Given the relative civility of everybody but this man I’m not completely inclined to believe him, but that’s neither her nor there. He did at some point towards the end of the video assault the person videotaping and according to the comments the police were waiting at the last station on the line for him.

That backstory is almost besides the point but I wanted to explain to you how I got to this question. Let’s imagine that somebody did call him the f-word. I’m no expert on slurs, but I’m pretty sure that’s one of the worst things you can call a gay person. It’s meant to be emasculating to the nth degree seeing as how many straight men refer to other men like that when dude is acting less than manly. Or they’re just being ignant. Either or.

But let’s say she called him a f*ggot. She likely didn’t know his sexual orientation but whatevs. That’s totes not important. She slurred him first. But what if he is gay. And hearing that offended him, so he offended her back with the n-word. Is he wrong? All those people got in their feelings (granted they’re all Black so we have some selection and location bias at work here) but what if he is gay and she shot off some gay slur so he shot back with a Black slur. Is all of a sudden he racist and therefore worse than any homophobic slur? Granted, the oppression olympics will be played forever, but can anybody really be mad if you aim one slur and they come back with another?

Confuscious says: he who strikes second, pays first.

He doesn’t really say that, I heard that in Sunday school. It’s always the n*gga who reacts who usually gets caught. But I also heard sticks and stones may break my bones but words will never hurt me. This is patently not true because I’ve seen somebody get thrown through a glass window for saying something reckless at DC Live in the late 90s.

So maybe in a technical sense, you’re supposed to turn the other cheek and let words bounce off of you and pretend you’re not human. Then you go home and punch the air like Cuba Gooding, Jr in Boyz In Tha Hood. A lot. Hopefully you’ve got a virginal Nia Long there to take the edge off after. Seriously, has that ever worked? Man shows up as his girls house mad because of social injustice and he gets some for peace? P*ssy for Peace. Ignorant? Yes. But a cause everybody can support? I think so.

The more you know. *ding*

But assuming that the guy was gay and that the woman did say that in this scenario, is he wrong for referring to her with the n-word? Does that automatically make him more wrong than the person who uses the first slur? From his standpoint, sometimes you do have to take a stand and you just lose it at times. Everybody is capable of snapping. You’ve got the power. The reaction on the train would have largely coalesced on no matter what she said to him, you should never call a Black person an n-word as a non-Black person. I think most folks would agree with that.

I’m just not sure I’m one of them. If I call somebody a wop, wetback, kike, or any of a number of ethnic or racial slurs and they respond in kind, I can’t really get my panties in a bunch can I??? Like I can’t be like, “just wait a damn minute, sir, THAT is uncalled for!”

Right?

What say you? Does the n-word trump all or am I just preaching to the choir and need to run this poll on CNN?

-VSB P aka THE ARSONIST aka MR. N*GGA AT LONDON HEATHROW WITH ME AND MY PEOPLES aka GIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIRL HE A 3

 

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Damon Young

Panama Jackson is a co-founder of VSB and co-author of Your Degrees Won't Keep You Warm At Night: The Very Smart Brothas Guide to Dating, Mating, and Fighting Crime. He believes the children are our future and is waiting to find out if he is the 2nd most interesting man in the world.

  • http://verysmartbrothas.com The Champ

    I was going to say that nigger and faggot are pretty close to equal now, but while people get in trouble for saying faggot (Remember Kobe last year?), you still can’t even say nigger on the news. Shit, (non-Black) reporters and journalists can’t even read a sentence or a quote that has “nigger” in it without saying “n-word.” It’s basically the Candyman of slurs.

    • http://commentarybyvalentina.wordpress.com/ Val

      “Shit, (non-Black) reporters and journalists can’t even read a sentence or a quote that has “nigger” in it without saying “n-word.””

      Black journalists don’t even say “ni**er”, they say “n-word too. Which I suppose means the word is now officially obscene? Although, you can still hear the word “ni**er” on some rap stations. So, I guess that means that rap gets a pass?

      • http://commentarybyvalentina.wordpress.com/ Val

        Thank you in advance for freeing me. :-)

      • http://verysmartbrothas.com Panama Jackson

        On what public air rap station do you ever hear “n*gger” actually said? It’s still on the FCC list. You might hear it on Satellite radio, but you also hear Howard Stern there.

        • http://commentarybyvalentina.wordpress.com/ Val

          I’ve heard it on KMEL here in the San Francisco Bay area, PJ.

          • http://verysmartbrothas.com Panama Jackson

            y’all might be a little bit too liberal out there. lol

        • h.h.h.

          it might fly through on certain songs on Hot 97 in nyc, but that’s usually after 10…

          • Rewind

            Yea usually during a DJ mix

        • Keith

          I heard it on some miami stations..

    • http://www.wddij.com The Ruthless Wonder

      Say ti 3 times and your career will be killed.

      • http://www.wddij.com The Ruthless Wonder

        it*

        • IcePrincess3

          Jus ask Kramer

          • http://www.alltherightquestions.com T.Q. Fuego

            I hate when ppl act like the worst thing about Kramer’s rant was sayin the n-word tho. That was the least offensive thing to come out of his mouth during the diatribe.

            • http://commentarybyvalentina.wordpress.com/ Val

              I think that’s because people (read me) listened up to the point when he used the N word and tuned everything else out after that. That was all I needed to hear to know what I needed to know.

              • http://www.alltherightquestions.com T.Q. Fuego

                I hear you Val. My theory was that the rest of what he said made people so uncomfortable and reminded them of the most ugly parts of history and racial relations that they stuck to the safe “n-word=bad” discussion instead of touching the WAY more hurtful history he bragged about.

                • Jane

                  The replies get smaller and smaller and

                  • Jane

                    And smaller and smaller and

                    • Jane

                      and smaller and smaller and

    • kid video

      I feel newspeople wont/dont say ni**er is cause they dont want it to backfire, and themselves be called racist…or something like that.

      • Ms. Bridget

        ding ding ding. We have a winner! As long as you don’t *sound* like a racist or homophobe it’s all good. Smh!

        • http://verysmartbrothas.com Panama Jackson

          I wrote a whole post about that. So I agree. You can think what you want. Just don’t say it.

      • Rewind

        But they actually are when they say it. I’m going the Louis C.K route. Everytime a reporter says “the n word”, it literally is them getting away with saying nig-ger without actually saying it, because they put the thought in the viewers head to actually say the word, instead of censoring themselves.

        At this rate, go hard or go home.

        • Keith

          agreed… Its like they are pretending to be sensitive to the situation. Its just a wink and a nod to their audience to giggle.

          • Rewind

            Exactly, you’re actually poking fun at the people you’re speaking to, which in turn makes me disgusted.

            • Jane

              Anybody remember that skit with Chevy Chase and Richard Pryor? Chase is interviewing Pryor using word association. It gets tenser and tenser until…

    • Sahel

      Cunt is way up there as well

      • Sweet GA Brown

        I still dont get the whole cunt thing. If someone called me that i would probably laugh it off cause they would fail at getting the reaction they wanted. Would that make me a cunt?

        When I was growing up in Atlanta,calling a female a broad or rudy poo would get you beat down.

        • GypsyCurl

          Co-sign.

          I swear fo jeebus I had never ever heard that word until my late 20′s. I thought it was a 2520 word bc I have never heard it come from a black person’s mouth. Then I read a comment on a blog saying It is a popular word in the Carribean in response to Rhianna’s use of it on twitter or she said it or something like that.

          A road rage 2520 yelled it at me in traffic but I just laughed and waved at him bc I knew was trying to offend me. But the irony of yelling a slur at someone who doesn’t know the slur was tickling me. He would have been better off calling me the N-word.

        • http://verysmartbrothas.com The Champ

          “I still dont get the whole cunt thing”

          number 8 on the list of “10 things a guy says before he realizes he’s gay”

    • http://verysmartbrothas.com Panama Jackson

      Is this the first time that one of us (not named Liz) has been the first commenter on a post? Hmmm….

  • nillalatte

    Do unto others as you would have them do unto you.

    Yeah, I know a lil religion. I ain’t gonna lie. If someone comes at me calling me up out my name and starts with some slurs, yeah, I’d take it there in a heart beat. It’s called upping the ante. You think I’m scurred? You got me bumped. Come at me like you got some damn good sense and I will return in kind.

    But, then again, I try avoid confrontation because… well.. I gets white girl/ghetto girl crazy confused! LMAO

    • Charlie
    • nillalatte

      Screech… hold up, back up. I missed the video. Sue me. I’m tired. Stress is killing me.

      Anyways, you’re right PJ, those folks were pretty restrained and dude was all crazy looking anyway. But, no matter how many slurs you call someone, ain’t nobody should take it to a physical level.

      Ain’t too many times I’ve gotten into an altercation with strangers, but I can get in my moods, mostly in airports. I even got into it with a cop at one. Long story short he was being an arse and I said, “You are so ….. wait for it…. sweet!” Black man helping me with luggage started rolling laughing. He knew I wasn’t thinking this dude was sweet. :D There needs to be an airport etiquette map for folks.

      • http://verysmartbrothas.com Panama Jackson

        Yeah those folks were way more chill than you’d normally expect.

        • Brother Mouzone

          That dude better be glad he didn’t do that in Detroit…lets just say the reaction from the crowd would have been a bit..uh..different.

          • GypsyCurl

            If you are a white person in Detroit, you automatically get a different reaction. If someone perceives you as looking at them the wrong way in Detroit the reaction is different. Detroit people are so hostile and angry and I’m sure they don’t even know why. It IS that cold in the D. You can’t expect peace.

            • Brother Mouzone

              “Detroit people are so hostile and angry and I’m sure they don’t even know why. It IS that cold in the D. You can’t expect peace.”

              Not all the people are hostile and angry, we just don’t put up with that type of sh*t…

        • Orion

          It’s because they’re all on their way to work. Nobody wants to start something that early in the morning. They just want to go on their way. If this had happened after 8pm on a Saturday then things would have been a lot different.

    • Yonnie

      You know that what you are describing (calling someone out their name b/c they did it to you first) is the exact OPPOSITE of the golden rule… right? It is do unto others as you WOULD have them do unto you. It is NOT do unto others as they do unto you. Treat them how you WANT to be treated… not how they treated you. Just a friendly education lesson for you. I try to live by this credo.

      • Yonnie

        That was for nillalatte

  • http://commentarybyvalentina.wordpress.com/ Val

    All of the trump words, those words that make reference in a derogatory way to something you are born being, are equally offensive. You pull one, I pull one, we both lose. Everybody loses. Like nuclear mutual assured destruction.

    • http://verysmartbrothas.com Panama Jackson

      Somebody’s gotta win though.

      • http://commentarybyvalentina.wordpress.com/ Val

        Nobody wins if everybody loses.

        • http://verysmartbrothas.com Panama Jackson

          If everybody loses, its cuz somebody won.

          And no, that doesn’t make sense.

          • http://commentarybyvalentina.wordpress.com/ Val

            Lol.

  • minxbrie

    I think there’s a lot of confusion surrounding the N-word. From what I understand, the general rule is that black people can say it…everyone else can’t. But what about the Black people who don’t like it being used by anyone? Or the people who think that anyone can say it because at this point, if it’s in a song, people are saying it anyways?

    So no, I don’t think it trumps all because I don’t like either of those words being used. I’m also less inclined to believe that one minority’s struggle trumps another so if I call you a F*ggot and you call me a N*gger, I don’t think I should be getting all upset when I’m trying to hurt you on purpose and you respond in kind.

    Since I live my life based on Chris Rock stand-up…
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=we-zND9Ihes

    But did that man really try and box the woman at the end of the video?!

    • emjay

      that’s one of my favorite chris rock bits

    • http://www.wddij.com The Ruthless Wonder

      Not to mention the people who use derogatory words as a means of taking the power out of the word. I personally don’t understand them as well as the people who say certain words are everywhere so why can’t everyone say them. It is as though words have no meaning at all. It is one thing to take the power out of words as they become ultra common in usage and people entirely forget that they used to be slurs.

      What do I mean? Vandal, vandalize, and vandalism is good example. The Romans used it to depict the desecration and or destruction of anything beautiful in a Ruthless fashion in honor of the Vandals who sacked Rome. But that was well over 1500 years ago. And it will take such a time frame post the events attributed to the word to get such a status. Until then the power and stigma in the words are too much. And both should be used with caution. Also I kinda feel like the guy is lying as well. Like he pulled Fa***t out of the ether to cover for going Kramer on the situation.

    • Charlie

      +1 Truth

    • Rewind

      See that’s the problem with people in general. Words have nothing but the meaning they are created for to be used in the context that properly helps us communicate.

      So to me, at this rate in my life, there are no such thing as bad words, just bad context.

      • http://missrosen.wordpress.com esa

        words are magic spells. they are never the thing themselves, just emissaries of an idea that we aspire to communicate. i agree, context is key because the spell takes hold with the power of the intention behind it.

        that said, some words have been elevated to supernatural effect and people behold them as mystical objects of a kind of reverence that reminds me of nothing less than John 1:1

        In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.

        some people have made the Word into a demon. that speaks to what lies buried in the dark corners of the heart; fear is the most wicked force of all because it corrupts everything it touches ..

        • Rewind

          And since people lack the courage to face fear, they embrace comfority instead, damning all of us to a fate far worse than what we should have.

          • http://missrosen.wordpress.com esa

            mmm i wonder. i think the only person with the power to damn us is ourselves.

            #personalresponsibility

            • Rewind

              While what you say is true, we are still a part of a crowd, and as long as that is the case, no matter how much individual responsibiity we take, we still have to pay for the crowd’s decisions.

              • http://missrosen.wordpress.com esa

                we are responsible for what we do, say, believe.

                we also have a responsibility to the Greater Good and how we contribute to the welfare of (Wo)Man.

                complicity is tricky thing. it is a process of awareness. but not of blame or fault. i believe it is about transcending seeming limitation in order to work towards human liberation.

                not everyone is there, or wants to go. that is why compassion is everything. it helps to create understanding, a bridge between the self and the world.

  • emjay

    IF she took it there, she shouldn’t have. And IF she took it there, he shouldn’t have taken it further. Two wrongs don’t make a right. Everything I need to know I learned in kindergarten. But, I will say that he comes off MUCH worse because her offense (if it happened) wasn’t captured on camera and then he physically assaulted someone. So yeah I’m not here for his stories.

    • Bedrock Obama

      Maybe that’s why everyone was so civil. The train was crowded and its expected that people would push. She reacted negatively..fa#$%…he said the N word

      And if I was standing there I might be like in mind…look at the N word messing up my trip. So they probably agreed with him.

      • http://verysmartbrothas.com Panama Jackson

        I guess that is possible too. They all agreed. Still feel like he shouldn’t be saying stuff, but they aint mad. lol

      • Phoenixrisen212

        I was thinking the same thing. I think people did not react violently b/c they heard what she said first. Neither one was right in any case. But to the question at hand is the N word trump all other slurs the answer is no. All slurs are hateful and all should be equally viewed as offensive and not be used.

        • Bedrock Obama

          And for some, why am I going to give up my coveted seat to give this fool a beat down…lol

        • minxbrie

          “All slurs are hateful and all should be equally viewed as offensive and not be used.”

          +10000, thank you!

        • Rewind

          I disagree. Slurs have merit, given the situation, just like violence has merit, given the situation.

          To pretend like the evils of the world are not required is to ignore that this world requires balance. There will never be such things as wordly peace and harmony, because even that could lead to a horrible end, despite what many would think.

  • http://vagabondaesthetics.tumblr.com Malik

    Race informs far more inequality than orientation within the US (ex. even most homophobic people would rather hire a gay white person than a straight Black person). And Black people are at the bottom.

    • http://commentarybyvalentina.wordpress.com/ Val

      Yeah but, LGBT Black people are lower on the hierarchy than str8 Black people as not only might Whites discriminate against Black LGBT people but str8 Blacks as well.

      So, which word trumps which is relative.

      • minxbrie

        +1

        There’s this quote from Paris is Burning… I can’t recall the exact line but it goes something like this:

        “My dad said, ‘You have 3 strikes against you in this world. Every black man has 2… that they’re black and male. But you’re black, and you’re a male and you’re gay. You’re gonna have a hard f*cking time.”

        All parts of a person’s identity intersects with oppression and inequality at one point or another. There’s always some who are going to be lower than others.

        • http://commentarybyvalentina.wordpress.com/ Val

          Exactly, Minxbrie, and then you have to wonder where gender fits in. Do Black gay men or Black lesbian women have a more difficult time navigating society, both Black and White.

          • Rewind

            Black lesbian women have it way easier than Black gay men…depending on looks. Unfortunately.

            A beautiful Black lesbian woman will be given some slack, especially if the people judging her happen to appreciate her beauty. A butch lesbian with more testerone & masculine traits may just be treated like the bottom of the barrel. But I still think in the end, even she may get more of a kinder treatment than a certain amount of Black gay man, depending on looks and flamboyance.

            • http://commentarybyvalentina.wordpress.com/ Val

              I would not agree that Black lesbian women have it easier than gay Black men, Rewind.

              I think the treatment of either is dependent on a lot of variables.

              As for studs having a harder time. Sometimes but not always. Both my girlfriend and I are fems and we have been in situations where we felt very threatened. There are many men who feel resentment toward lesbian women who they feel are attractive and they do not have access to.

              And, there are a lot of women who will give studs a little leeway because they are more easily identifiable as lesbians. Where as they feel resentment toward fem lesbians because we are not as easily identifiable, so they can’t as easily put us in our proper category.

              • http://vagabondaesthetics.tumblr.com Malik

                How are we defining “worse” though? Is it violence? Are we defining that violence based off of homophobia? If it’s just violence then a random woman is probably going to face more violence than a random man. She most likely will be facing that violence because she’s a woman and because she’s gay though. When it comes to violence because of homophobia gay Black men are going to GET far violence directed towards them than gay Black women.

                That’s not even getting into STDs…

                • http://obsidianraw.bravejournal.com Obsidian

                  @Malik:
                  That’s not true; Men face far, far more acts of random violence than do Women, and this is true no matter what period of time you want to study. That we’re all having a hard time thinking up a female analogue to Matthew Sheppard really speaks volumes.

                  Pinker’s book The Better Angels of Our Nature is must-reading for anyone who wants to better undesrtanding the human history of violence and how we’ve all but conquered it.

                  O.

              • Rewind

                Val, I know what you’re saying but in comparison to two feminine lesbians being harassed by one man because he’s attracted to them and they won’t give him play, against the scenario of a gay male couple being harassed by a bunch of drunk dou-chebags. Guess who’s going to the hospital that night? Not the lesbians.

                Again though, I feel like it is about context. Every situation is different, so even my general assumption is wrong in many cases.

                • http://obsidianraw.bravejournal.com Obsidian

                  @Rewind:
                  Boom!-and this is the hue problem I have with Ms. Val. Despite her self-proclaimed sexual identity, she is very much a Woman – and Women as a rule tend to have a way of thinking that is not amenable to linear fact finding. Well known sex-positive blogger Maggie McNeill wrote excellently about all this recently; it repays close reading/study (Ms. Val are you listening?):

                  http://maggiemcneill.wordpress.com/2013/04/10/garbage-in-garbage-out/

                  O.

                  • Rewind

                    Well Val is not a man, so I can’t expect her to see things for a male point of view as clearly as I can, just the same as I can’t see things from a woman’s point of view like she can.

                    But I disagree that about Val’s fact finding skills. If she’s bothering to even read what we type, she’s clearly interested enough to learn.

                    As with all people, our experiences are all we have to base knowledge about the world. Ergo, it requires other people to help us see the light in our mistakes in assuming what we think we know vs. what we actually know.

                • minxbrie

                  But what about lesbians who don’t subscribe to being Fem?

                  On a special episode of 1 Girl 5 Gays, one host mentioned having the shit kicked out of her because of her more masculine appearance.

                  I’ve also had friends beaten up for being lesbians and harassed on the streets when they walk together.

                  Hell, I told a guy I wasn’t interested one time and he thought *I* was gay, so that gave him the balls to harass me all night to tell me I just need a “good stiff one” to help me out.

                  PS. This is Canada people. We’re not all sunshine and polar bears up here.

                  There’s no point in comparing people’s pain as less or worse.

                  As Lee Anne Bell says, oppression is complex, multiple and cross-cuts relationships. We all face it and we will all face it at different points in our lives. The conversation shouldn’t be about WHO has it worse (because I’m pretty sure the suffering of Aboriginals trumps EVERYONE), but what can be done to change it.

                  • Rewind

                    I’m not denying anything you’re saying. But on the average, one group will generally get more of the short end of the stick than the other. Even the people you mentioned, in comparison to the big picture, are just isolated incidents.

                    You are right though, how to change the game should be the focal point.

        • http://TheNewEve.com Bunni

          I got the whole triple minority thing going for me (black female lgbt), and I promise you we are rock bottom on the oppression totem pole….the n-word and the f-word sting equally. And if you use them, trust me when i say i will pull out all stops when i snap. Its never okay, and you shouldnt expect a less severe reaction to either.

          • http://commentarybyvalentina.wordpress.com/ Val

            “I got the whole triple minority thing going for me (black female lgbt), and I promise you we are rock bottom on the oppression totem pole”

            Exactly, Bunni, because Black gay men still have male privilege, just as str8 Black men have.

            • http://obsidianraw.bravejournal.com Obsidian

              @Ms. Val:
              Exactly what supposed privilege do Black Men have? Please lay it out for me? And how has this impeded you or any other Black Woman in life? Please give and cite concrete, realworld examples? Pardon me if I am not much moved by boilerplate.

              Thanks!

              O.

              • http://www.blacklatinafabulous.com Maris

                All things being equal (education-wise), Black men still earn more than women (by close to 10K on avg). Black men still get raises at a faster rate. There’s that pesky “sexual harassment” thing. I could go on…

                • http://obsidianraw.bravejournal.com Obsidian

                  @Ms. Maris:
                  That’s because Black Men (like all Men to be frank) are more willing to do dirty work; more here: http://www.empowernewsmag.com/listings.php?article=2051

                  Also: crimes of violence against Women of all kinds, have been on the drastic decline, for decades now. You see, the dirty little secret that no one – especially not the Feminists – wants to admit, is that Feminism has worked too good.

                  Now, there’s no more windmills to tilt at. So this results in ever-increasingly ridiculous “causes” that look foolish and silly even to many Women, which explains why so many of them shrink away from being identified as Feminists, LOL.

                  Whew…

                  O.

                • Rewind

                  I don’t believe in that statistic, given that more Black women today are college educated than men, and more likely to get principle entry level positions that help them advance to better positions, in comparison to men in the same boat.

                  It could be that I don’t have a great set of ti-ts when I go on an interview. I already know what it is liked to be dropped from getting a job because a woman with a nice body clearly looks better behind the desk.

                  All that statistics in the world are nothing more than sample populations being compared to the actual world population, and that never takes into account what are isolated incidents, areas of progression, areas of weakness, etc.

          • Rewind

            The words might sting you, but someone’s fist isn’t coming to your face.

            There’s a difference between people being jerks to you because of what you are, and people completely disrespecting you for the hell of it. I think that’s what is being missed here.

            I’m a 6’2 Black man living in America with no kids, no arrest record, and a reasonable amount of intelligence. Yet compared to you in life, I WILL FAIL. You will achieve way more than me, simply because you are a) a woman, b) a woman of color, and c) a woman of different sexual orientation.

            You have all sorts of support means that DO NOT EXIST FOR ME as a Black man. So regardless of words, life is on your side.

            • http://commentarybyvalentina.wordpress.com/ Val

              First, there are literally tons of support systems for Black men. Tons!

              Second, I think you greatly underestimate your male privilege.

              Thirdly, being a woman, of color and a lesbian are not markers for success in America or the world.

              Rewind, I have a hard time believing that you don’t get how much privilege Black men have in this world as compared to Black women. Especially you as a str8 Black man.

              • Rewind

                Val, real talk, people talk about me being able to have male privilege. I’ve never seen it.

                Everywhere I go, I have to act in a manner that offsets EVERYONE’S stereotypical opinions about who I am just because I am a Black man. I’m tall, I’m heavy set, and I have a mean face. People of any race automatically might assume I’m a thug with glasses. It isn’t until I open my mouth that I get to see that sense of tension ease up, and the expressions on their face change. How about the countless Black women that look at me like I might hurt them, until I either walk right past them or just say something extremely polite to them.

                Val, I know nothing of a means of support for men like me. We are on our own. Even the support groups I have been a part of, we have no answer for how to live our everyday lives except to say f*ck the world. That’s all I got.

                • http://obsidianraw.bravejournal.com Obsidian

                  @Rewind:
                  Boom – again!

                  Please notice how Ms. Val always slinks away when you actually press her for concrete examples on whatever victimology she’s peddling this week. Again, Ms. McNeill addresses Ms. Val’s (and quite a few other ladies, I might add) affliction along these lines:

                  http://maggiemcneill.wordpress.com/2013/04/10/garbage-in-garbage-out/

                  Very much required reading and study…

                  O.

                • http://commentarybyvalentina.wordpress.com/ Val

                  Well, Rewind, first, this isn’t a zero sum situation. Your experiences are valid ones and your feelings on the subject are as well. My point is only that in a world dominated by men it makes sense that men will have more privilege in many aspects of life than women.

                  Are there examples when men, in particular Black men, don’t have access to this privilege because of static prejudices, yes, of course.

                  So, I get what you are saying and I hope you get my point as well.

                  • Rewind

                    I do get your point Val, but my point is simply the same as talking to a poor White person that’s never seen how their White privilege actually works. There are plenty of people that never get to take advantage of the privileges that come along with their group because they usually get the negative aspects of the group.

                    In a world dominated by men, the most consistent idea going is that some men will try to exclude other men. That’s how it works, because people always want to keep benefits to themselves.

                    Imagine going to a club. The bouncer will give me sh*t even if I’m wearing a full suit and tie, but he might look at your chest and deem you worthy to enter.

                • http://missrosen.wordpress.com esa

                  i wonder ..

                  i believe energy is transcendent. it isn’t a process of the mind. it defies all linear construct. you have the power to alter people’s perceptions without ever saying a word.

                  you may not accept this power, but that does not mean it does not exist ~*~

                  • http://commentarybyvalentina.wordpress.com/ Val

                    Interesting, Esa.

                  • Rewind

                    This could be true.

                    However, when I’m in a store to buy water owned by a small Asian woman, I’m not sure how quickly I can get the transfer of energy to work in my favor if she expects me to be loud, mean, or beligerant since that’s what she is used to.

                    • http://missrosen.wordpress.com esa

                      ima reply at the bottom. i love space ~*~

              • http://TheNewEve.com Bunni

                Outside of the vague CONCEPT of privilege, Rewind…you DO have protections that I do not have. I know O loves him some facts….gays can still be fired from their jobs based on their sexual orientation and nothing else. Straight women have Title VII and Blacks have the cozy 14th amendment…meanwhile gays have absolutely no constitutional protection from discrimination…thats not an idea, its not a feeling, its not a socioeconomic privilege, its a fact. So, being 1) gay and having very little legal protection and 2) being black and having very little conceptual protection and 3) being female and facing gender bias, i think its fair to say that we arent sitting pretty either. Geez, this turned into the oppression olympics again lmao

                • Rewind

                  Dude, I can be fired for being ugly. And it has happened. So even with what you tell me, you are still in better shape than me. You don’t have my health problems, you don’t automatically make people’s eyebrows raise up in either digust or morbid intrigue when they look at you, nor do you have to defy the idea that you’d physically destroy that person. I DO. EVERY SINGLE DAY. I DO.

                  All that statistics in the world is not going to change that fact. For me and many other men like me. So regardless of your sexual preference, you are a woman, and you still have the world in the palm of your hands compared to me.

                  • http://TheNewEve.com Bunni

                    Like Brie said upthread, you are only referring to attractive, traditionally feminine women….my girlfriend is the same stature as you, almost 6ft, 240lbs, with a fade….in the sharpest of suits and the most eloquent of vocabulary, she faces the SAME hardships you do. All women do not have that “pretty face and big tit” privilege you speak of my darling Rewind :-)

                    • Rewind

                      You are right Bunni, I’m making too many assumptions. Everybody has a story to tell and that story isn’t always as nice as we would all tend to beleive.

      • http://vagabondaesthetics.tumblr.com Malik

        That’s true. intersecting oppressions and what not. This country is founded as racial separation and (purported) superiority and flows down from there. Intraracially gay slurs would hurt more. Interracially the gay slur would be a modifier for the racial one and not the other way around.

    • Rewind

      Being a multiple minority is a slow killer for many people, not just Black US citizens.

      Being a gay Asian man without feminine traits that could have you stand in as drag queen or girly man is a very big problem in the Asian community.

      Gay Hispanic men who don’t live in NY, LA, or SF have an extremely hard time being accepted in their communities.

      Indian/Middle Eastern-Asian Men who are gay and not living in a big time American city? Yea…I don’t even need to explain that one. They pretty much deny being gay.

      • http://TheNewEve.com Bunni

        pretty much, being gay outside of ANY major city is bad news bears….you might could assimilate in a small town being black, but being gay is still a major no no…its scary how this country is still so prejudiced

      • gemgirl

        Try being a gay man in Africa

        • http://commentarybyvalentina.wordpress.com/ Val

          Yep, or the so-called Middle East.

        • Sweet GA Brown

          Yeah I read a story about the injustices gay men encounter in Africa. Seems like you cant be gay and LIVE in Africa period.

        • Rewind

          Oh between Asia & Africa, I’m sure the life of a gay man is beyond words.

          • http://obsidianraw.bravejournal.com Obsidian

            But again – I’m NOT seeing concrete, realworld examples from Ms. Val and others of her ilk, who make the claim that Black Men, even gay ones, somehow are the beneficiaries of all this supposed privilege. I can argue – with facts, unlike Ms. Val – easily half a dozen, reaet, Ms Val and e this is simply not the case. Yet, Ms Val and others of her ilk, are allowed to run amok with this bunk.

            I challenge Ms. Val and those who share her view, to actually provide evidence.

            Boilerplate doesn’t work on me.

            O.

            • Rewind

              I don’t think her point was based on imperical evidence, but moreso basic logic, that the majority group would reap all benefits. The same way most Black people think all White people reap the benefits of their skin, when clearly all don’t.

              • http://obsidianraw.bravejournal.com Obsidian

                @Rewind:
                Yes, you’re a 100% coect: NONE of her “points” is based on anything in the least bit empirical.

                Just a bunch of boilerplate, like I said before…

                O.

            • minxbrie
            • http://TheNewEve.com Bunni

              Easy tiger…a lot of this is common sense and doesnt require “evidence.” A great majority of it isnt measured at all. A bad point backed up with evidence is still a bad point. Its a practice called ‘Polishing the Turd.’

              • camilleblu

                no worries bunni – o admitted to HHH down thread that he didn’t have evidence to back up his claims either…he just likes the sound of his voice – or maybe the way his words look written on this blog…

        • http://commentarybyvalentina.wordpress.com/ Val

          Oh and Cuba too. Castro has been known to jail LGBT folks just for being LGBT. So, this stuff happens in our hemisphere as well.

          • http://TheNewEve.com Bunni

            It happens right in our backyards….If I drive maybe 25min west of Atlanta, it’s real life trouble there too

  • http://www.blacklatinafabulous.com Maris

    N*gga only trumps all for black people. Plus we gave everyone an automatic out because we use it so meh.
    Now, use a slur against er…God’s ‘chosen people’? Watch what happens. I can’t even say too much on it ’cause I like my livelyhood, lol. But seriously, it’s like women and “b*Ch”. We started using it to take the “power” out of the word but instead we removed our right to be outraged when it is used. I don’t really have an answer for this.

    • http://commentarybyvalentina.wordpress.com/ Val

      “We started using it to take the “power” out of the word but instead we removed our right to be outraged when it is used.”

      That’s a good observation. Except that some of us who don’t use any of those kinds of words reserve the right to still be outraged. But, We still have to contend with having the use (of those words) by others being thrown in our faces.

      • amber l

        Yes, I’m one that hates the word being used by anyone. We live in such a multicultural and ethnic world today that even when black folks say they just use it around each that’s no longer viable. I even cringe awhen P ises it on this site. I think we shouldn’t rank obscenities. Wrong is wrong. Maybe the nonviolent reaction of the other riders lends some truth to the claim the she called him a name as well.

        • http://verysmartbrothas.com Panama Jackson

          You know, b/c this is my space I continue to use it b/c well, I just do. But I do make it a point to figure out if other folks in personal convos use it before I go in with the n-word. If I know folks don’t use it, I usually don’t.

    • http://www.styleillusions.com WIP

      “Now, use a slur against er…God’s ‘chosen people’? Watch what happens. I can’t even say too much on it ’cause I like my livelyhood, lol.”

      BOL, don’t even wanna go on record with that one?

    • Rewind

      Everything that I was thinking. Nig-ger & b-itch just go hand & hand as the two slurs that both groups tried to get cute with and made too many stupid mistakes to justify anger.

  • 2Rawtid

    Im not sure i can decide whether one trumps the other, however being raised in PG County, and familiar with the metro it forces me to ask one question. This white man was either so comfortable (as the only white man amongst a sea of brown faces) or that angry (presumably by this woman calling him a F*****) to repeatedly call her a N*****, again amongst a bunch of other Black folk. Makes me wonder if this is something he does in practice? Just odd. He didn’t feel threatened at all or scared by the potential consequences of his name calling. Interesting to say the least. I am definitely surprised he didn’t get his arse handed to him, but proud of my people for taking the high road :)

    • 2HourLunchBreak

      As another PG County native, I second this. The green line has earns its monicker year in and year out. With that being the case, and with this man spitting out n-word after n-word with such ease, it makes me think that there was, in fact, something else at play.

      He didn’t even pause when asked why he immediately went to such depths. I can only think that either 2Rawtid is right in wondering if he practices these things so regularly they just flowed forth effortlessly (and this man is also a very accomplished liar) or that his claims of provocation are actually true.

      – 2HLB

    • Rewind

      That’s a far cry from years ago on the Green Line when I used to see 16-year girls stomp out middle aged White women for looking at them funny.

      • mena

        There’s so much I want to say on this topic but I’m not trying to start a riot today.

        • Rewind

          Go ahead and speak homie.

    • http://verysmartbrothas.com Panama Jackson

      It is interesting right? Like he just KEPT saying it. He ain’t neva scared. Maybe he had a sea of goons behind him we couldn’t see on camera with uzis.

      • http://missrosen.wordpress.com esa

        madness is fearless

    • MissRita

      He was crazy, no other explanation needed. I’m from DC/PG County and those folks on that train were not messing with that crazy white man. He had the crazy look on his face. He was bold as he!!, and I know if I was on that train I would have switched cars all together. I would have been nervous he was going to go postal on there lol.

    • Ms. Bridget

      Maybe the whole fight or flight response kicked in…I mean, the doors of the train were closed so it’s not like he could leave. Gotta survive I guess…

  • H.H.H.

    if slurs are coming out the woodwork, all bets are off. you black and call someone a (piece of dry sticks) well you might get called a (rhymes with bigger).

    but i always thought the slurs that stung the most were…

    3. f***ot
    2. n***er
    1. c**t (rhymes with bunt, punt, ba-donka-donk)

    or is c**t not a slur?

    • minxbrie

      C*nt in my opinion is most definitely a slur. I don’t know if it’s because it just sounds ugly and harsh, but I would rather be called a B*tch than a C*nt any day.

      • IcePrincess3

        Omg c*nt is soooo a huge slur are u kidding me lol. You so cute for having to ask tho lol

      • Rewind

        It is not a slur. It is one of the most beautiful words ever invented and needs to be used more often. It is funny cu-nt is an English word and yet North Americans are the only ones who care about it.

        Britian & Australia could care less.

    • http://GenevaGirl.net Geneva Girl

      The c-word is the worst thing you can call a woman. I cuss like a truck driver, on occasion, but I would never call another woman that.

      You need to add the r-word, which means delayed development. You can’t call anyone ret***** without getting the PC police called on you. I wouldn’t use that word either.

      • Diamond JIm

        Context is the key. Cunt as a descriptive noun for the vjay isn’t any different then any other slang term. Calling a women a cunt however may get yer eyes scratched out. You’d have to really piss me off for me to even consider going there.

        • Rewind

          I’d call someone a cu-nt just for being on time. I love that word.

          One day people will grow up and let it go.

        • http://TheNewEve.com Bunni

          Idk man….c*nt used in ANY context is just awful lol….i’d rather be called everything in the book except that…and someone better had never called my naughty snacks a word so filthy!!! Lawd, c*nt really holds the title for worst word ever.

          • http://www.alltherightquestions.com T.Q. Fuego

            Me and my sis playfully call each other c*unt all the time cause it sounds funny. Where the hell did y’all grow up where that word’s such a strong insult. I don’t get it. It’s like I missed the memo…

            • Rewind

              Same here. Some sensitive ass people out there in the world, and clearly insensitive people as well but….why does it matter? It is just a word.

            • http://TheNewEve.com Bunni

              The word is just so unnecessarily derogatory…it looks ugly on paper, it sounds funny leaving your lips…it just stings…ive met very few women who are okay with that word….i dont come across it very often, so its still shocking to hear in real life

              • Rewind

                Maybe to you, but that’s not true for the rest of the world. That’s the point. You were raised to believe that word is bad. If that same word was given good graces in your childhood, there’s no way in hell you’d look at it like that.

          • Ms. Bridget

            I missed it too…I never heard this work till grad school.

      • h.h.h.

        nah, folks can get the re-re tag here and there, folks won’t even say c**t on twitter tho…thats one of the two words/phrases i mentally block myself from saying.

    • http://verysmartbrothas.com Panama Jackson

      I know cunt is a slur. I know its a terrible word. I also wonder when and how it became so derogatory. Language is a many splendid confusing thing.

    • Sweet GA Brown

      C**t doesnt bother me like it seems to bother every female on this site. I dont hear it used around me or in ear shot. Idk. I knew it to be another name for lady parts and I refuse to accept that word as something horrble because somebody told me I’m supposed to be offended by it. I guess it needs to have history to back it up.

      If c**t is like calling me a p**sy then should I be ready to scratch eyes out? If someone called me a p**sy I guess that can also mean I’m scared of something. But do I really get ignant because someone said I’m scared?

      • http://commentarybyvalentina.wordpress.com/ Val

        Maybe in certain regions this word isn’t used as much and so it doesn’t carry the same weight.

  • http://obsidianraw.bravejournal.com Obsidian

    “To deny the truth in front of one’s nose requires a constant struggle.”
    -George Orwell

    Good morning Panama, everyone,
    Honestly, this question is in fact a non-question – I say that because we all know, deep down, that there are much, much more pressing concerns Black folk have that have little if anything to do with whether the socalled N-word is used or not. After all, if anyone uses such a term in such slavish, gratuitous fashion these days, it’s Black folk, using it on other Black folk – and by all accounts, we are perfectly, totally, completely, utterly, 100% cool with that.

    No, the real problem is all the many, manymanymanymanymanymany young Black folks acting like just barely an evolutionary step above rank feral animals on the very Metro (and other mass transit systems, like NYC’s MTA, Philly’s SEPTA or ATL’s MARTA) you’re describing – and I know you know what I’m talking about. We all do. And more often than not, the offenders are BLACK WOMEN themselves – fussin’, cussin’ and fightin’ – themselves and anyone who gets in the way (And some Black Women wonder why, as a group and in aggregate, they have such low mate value out on the open market – really?). Clearly, you’ve heard about the most recent incident along these lines, where a young lady (and I use that term very, very loosely), after cursing out her opponent in the most loudest and crudest of terms, then demanded that some grab her MFing baby, and when that didn’t happen in a timely fashion, she then pitches the baby like she’s tossing a lateral on the gridiron to a Black female passenger (thankfully, the lady had good hands!) and commenced to wailing on the other Black girl she was arguing with. I believe the video has gone viral and is all over YouTube, World Star Hip Hop and other Undernews-type outlets.

    Now, why do I mention this, in response to your post today, Panama? Because, in the eyes of Whites, that’s what they see – and then they see IWSBs (that’s Intelligent, Well-Socialized Blacks, a term coined by John Derbyshire) like you making a fuss over the White guy in a video on the Metro, but are suddenly mum on the deluge of Blacks Behaving Badly On The Metro vids out there – and, well, the #MoralOutrageRoutine kinda gets old. The bottomline is that Black America has far too many internal fish to fry to be worried about what some lone White Guy(TM) said on the train one day.

    But, because there really is no Black community anymore, and hasn’t been for quite some time now, the only way we can rally ourselves is when we have a real or perceived (more often than not in our time, it’s much, much more the latter) enemy from outside – this explains why, for example, we as a socalled community are pefectly good with more Black Men being killed in one American city (Chicago) over the past decade than all the Black Men in the US military in the Afghan war theater, to say nothing of the daily Young Black Male on Young Black Male bloodletting that occurs in American cities across the country, but the minute ONE Black kid gets shot by a Hispanic guy with a White-sounding last name, we’re ready to burn the Mutha down.

    Or, why Black politicians or preachers or teachers/administrators continue to get undying support from the very Black people they’ve been rawdogging with no vaseline and no kiss, in some cases for decades and have actually done more harm to Black folk than the Klan ever could dream of doing (cough, Kwame Kilpatrick, Black Teachers Cheating Scandals, BS Black Preachers, cough), suddenly want to rally around them when any White person dares to notice just how much of a f*ckup they actually are.

    Or, Black folks who are perfectly good with complaining about the rank Ratchetness of our own, but suddenly wanna get our backs up when errbody else (read: White/Asian/East Indian/Arab/Continential African/Caribbean/Anybody Who Ain’t Homegrown Descended From Slaves Black) folks notice – and openly speak on it. Now all of a sudden, being Ratchet is a revolutionary act akin to Huey Newton, or something.

    Or why Black Women can’t for the life of them straighten out their behavior and teach their daughters and other young Black girls to do the same, but the minute some Asian guy across the Atlantic says something they don’t like, they can rally an international coalition to get him this close to fired from his job.

    It’s all BUNK.

    And the thing is, White (and other non-Black) folk are wising up to that. Good on them!-maybe the Power of Shame will finally give us the collective kick in the behind to actually get our house in order.

    So, the real question here, my friend, is WHY are there so many Black young people so woefully, demonstrably outta pocket – and WHY are so many Black people – particularly those of the VSB variety – so good with it?

    Hmm?

    Now adjourn your arses…

    O.

    • Charlie

      Where are all these “feral animals” on the trains? I live walking distance to the green line, and take the bus everyday to school. The most I have to complain about is teens being loud and rowdy. Just like most teens and college kids. Is it worse to you because they are black? Plus how do to know its mostly black women?

      http://media.tumblr.com/tumblr_llaj1fufIL1qzjix8.gif

      These worldstar videos are plenty but not norm, at least not in my life.

      • http://obsidianraw.bravejournal.com Obsidian

        @Ms. Charlie:
        You need to get out more.

        The following video features the 44th St. Gang displaying their handiwork on your much beloved Green Line. Enjoy!

        http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=g7r_Tkx8exM

        O.

        • Charlie

          obsidian,the one who screams the loudest gets heard.

          This is not the norm, and i get out everyday, as i stated above.

          • http://obsidianraw.bravejournal.com Obsidian

            @Ms. Charlie:
            By all means, please do post all the videos of White Women Behaving Badly. Brawling in the malls. Twerkin’ in supermarket aisles. Beating down other White Women on their porches and dragging them by their hair off said porches, stomping them, etc. Attacking Black Women on mass transit routinely. Yes, please, post all that clear and present video evidence up! I for one would certainly like to see it!

            That Denial, is a powerful drug…

            O.

            • Charlie

              Not denying, just saying this is not the norm. There are plenty of videos that have white kids doing dumb things.Use all that energy to look for those videos. Matter fact Panama’s response sums up how i feel about this.

              • http://obsidianraw.bravejournal.com Obsidian

                @Ms. Charlie:
                No. YOU, were the one to bring up White folk behaving badly. YOU, therefore must present evidence to back up your claim – as I have mine. That you won’t, more like can’t, doesn’t acquit you very well.

                O.

                • Charlie

                  Chile…

                  http://bit.ly/Z3hUCT
                  http://bit.ly/Z3i396
                  http://bit.ly/Z3i5hp

                  this is also not the norm, but you’re giving other races way too much credit.

                  • Charlie

                    Before you get lost, click on the youtube link in the black header when you reach the destination.

                    • http://obsidianraw.bravejournal.com Obsidian

                      @Ms. Charlie:
                      Thanks for the directions! Looking forarward to your response to my comment re: the Twerk Team…

                      O.

                  • http://obsidianraw.bravejournal.com Obsidian

                    @Ms. Charlie:

                    Actually, we have to give all the credit for inventing Twerking to Black Women: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Twerking

                    And what, pray tell, did they invent the Twerk for? To what end? For what purpose?

                    Hmm?

                    O.

      • http://obsidianraw.bravejournal.com Obsidian

        Here’s video showing the aftermath of Sistas Gone Wild at the Ft. Totten stop on the DC Metro: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=n3jeQghUxIU

        O.

    • IcePrincess3

      Wow O, you are soooo right. You get it. When I’m a fly on the wall around rich & powerful racist whites, this is EXACTLY how they feel. They blame yall for yall own problems, weather that’s the case or not. You will never have their sympathy, so you might as well stop looking for it.

      • Todd

        Yeah, ignoring the working class Whites they send out to cause Black people problems, aka White cops and teachers in the hood. They push them to mess with Black heads, then want to hug on a Negro when we decide to complain about it, claiming that they sympathize. Screw you…y’all the ones send them here to make a living. LOL

        • IcePrincess3

          Hell yea. One big f*ckin circle jerk smh

        • http://obsidianraw.bravejournal.com Obsidian

          @Todd:
          “Yeah, ignoring the working class Whites they send out to cause Black people problems, aka White cops and teachers in the hood. They push them to mess with Black heads, then want to hug on a Negro when we decide to complain about it, claiming that they sympathize. Screw you…y’all the ones send them here to make a living. LOL”

          O: If indeed such a conspiratorial scheme were afoot, it would seem superfluous, given the way Black people seem so very adept at tearing themselves down and apart…

          O.

      • http://obsidianraw.bravejournal.com Obsidian

        @Ms. Iceprincess:
        “Wow O, you are soooo right. You get it. When I’m a fly on the wall around rich & powerful racist whites, this is EXACTLY how they feel. They blame yall for yall own problems, weather that’s the case or not. You will never have their sympathy, so you might as well stop looking for it.”

        O: Who said anything about getting anyone’s sympathy – Whites’ or anyone else’s? Moreover: when have I mentioned anything about “rich and powerful Whites”? My commentary had nothing to do with any of this.

        Please explain?

        O.

    • Ani-Q

      Ok….
      Hello O
      Usually when I read your posts, I either get it or not. If not, I will ignore it and move along. However, today I just cant. I am frowning as I type this because I am so confuse as to what your point is. Your second paragraph and the third to last paragraph are non- sequiturs to me. The sudden shift of your ideas expressed in this post is confusing and misrepresenting. Basically, all I am seeing are red herrings. These are main reasons for my confusion; you have an ability to somehow single out BW and make us the premise of the post especially in discussions where clearly it is not a gender orientated issue. This usually blocks me from seeing your point of view. I sometimes feel like you have an alternative agenda in your posts, so it does not matter whether or not Champ/P is talking about “why the sky is blue?” because you will find a way to link it to BW.
      So help me out, what is your point?

      • Kema

        ” So help me out, what is your point?”

        Inquiring minds want to.know!

      • Wild Cougar

        Let me help you. His point is BW ain’t sh*t. All day every day. You figure out why. My theory is he’s mad they don’t want him.

        • http://obsidianraw.bravejournal.com Obsidian

          @Ms. Wild Cougar:
          You might wanna get this gal to be part of your corner crew in the ring: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=j_iwxiry_vc

          O.

          • gemgirl

            O,

            You have posted several videos to butress you point. We get it, BW have behaved inappropriately in certain situations. However as a long time creeper on VSB, i have exactly the same concerns as Ani-Q.Do you have an agenda? or a reason for being always relating every post on VSB to the problem with BW? kindly address

            • Sweet GA Brown

              He wont.

              • http://obsidianraw.bravejournal.com Obsidian

                Wrong. Strike One. ;)

                O.

            • http://obsidianraw.bravejournal.com Obsidian

              @Gemgirl:
              “O,

              You have posted several videos to butress you point. We get it, BW have behaved inappropriately in certain situations. However as a long time creeper on VSB, i have exactly the same concerns as Ani-Q.Do you have an agenda? or a reason for being always relating every post on VSB to the problem with BW? kindly address.”

              O: Well, as I’ve said to Ms. Ani-Q in my response to her yesterday, my “agenda” is no closely guarded state secret – my goal is to present sides to the debate that rarely if ever get facetime. Valid points that are more often than not surpressed, due to the very kinds of groupthink Ms. CamilleBlue made reference to yesterday. When it comes to Black Women, yes, I often make reference to them, because they are often to blame – not always, but they aren’t always hapless victims either. Despite claims to the contrary, I actually have more respect for Black Women than most, because I recognize their essential humanity and capacity for good and evil.

              Hope that helps.

              O.

        • http://obsidianraw.bravejournal.com Obsidian

          Hey WC, you should take this Sista under your wing; she’s got talent!

          http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sz0NkhfzW4c

          O.

      • mena

        “What’s the point?”

        Black people (generalizing) mostly bring this crap on themselves and will be the first to jump down another races throat for bringing it up and in the same breath call them a racist.

        We have other problems, within our own community, to focus on and the N word is at the bottom of that barrel.

        That’s what I gather.

        • IcePrincess3

          Yep, that’s pretty much it, mena. O does have a point, but he gets in his own way with his “bashing” delivery.

        • http://obsidianraw.bravejournal.com Obsidian

          @Ms. Mena:
          Thank You. Isn’t it interesting how some people refuse to see the bleedingly obvious?

          Here’s some more videos of what I’m talking about: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vval9IWoWlQ

          O.

      • MimiLuvs

        For me, I read his posts because it is like playing “Six Degrees…” I am just waiting for P or Champ to come out with a post that can throw him off. A post about canned tuna, a pair of baby socks and about clubbed feet, perhaps?

        • http://obsidianraw.bravejournal.com Obsidian

          @Ms. MimiLuvs:
          LOL, you’re funny. Too bad you either can’t or won’t follow the bouncing ball.

          Here’s another video of our people in action: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=I-m-aRLISIM

          You were saying?

          O.

          P.S.: The hostess of the video is quite cute, I must say.

    • http://blogs.24.com/mosnative/ Mos_Native

      “Continental African” – good grief, thats me right there!

      Good points – except, it still grates me that black folk care what white folk think about them.

      • http://www.twitter.com/Bmorebmw Tentpole

        because we have seen what happens when whites don’t care about us.

    • Todd

      I’ll posit you a radical opinion here O: acting a natural a$$ on the subway is a bit of a revolutionary act. More correctly, the right to act that way without catching a case is.

      I remember when I used to live in Woodbridge NJ, I lived a few blocks from a QuickChek. (I also thankfully lived a few blocks from a real bodega run by this nice Indian woman, and I made it a point to give it business.) When I first got there, I saw a bunch of young, say 12-16 year old, White kids just posted up. Like a bunch of brothers on the corner.

      At first, I just thought it was a bunch of kids waiting for someone to come out. However, as I drove past there on my daily commute and occasionally patronized the place, I noticed that the kids were just there. They hung out otherwise unmolested. Not a cop car or even a raised eyebrow in sight. They just hung out, skateboarded and just chilled. This happened despite the fact that you could literally see the police headquarters 3 blocks in the other direction from my house.

      If this makes me a racist, so be it, but I know if it was a bunch of young Black or Latino kids in that spot, they would have been harassed by the cops every other week. I’m not saying that this is somehow a positive or salutatory activity. However, Black people should have the right to be dumb the same way as White people. That’s what Civil Rights entails, the right to live how one wishes without hurting anyone, even if they’re being dumb.

      (Oh, and as an aside, how do people deal with “convenience stores” with people speaking English at the register? Or standard American Negroes managing the place. As a New Yorker, that place gave me the heebie jeebies, even if they had some good heroes. And this phenomenon is blowing up as 7-11 is plotting their NYC takeover. *shivers*)

      • http://obsidianraw.bravejournal.com Obsidian

        @Todd:
        Woodbridge, huh? Home of Jim McGreevey! I know it well – and lemme tell ya, the Brick City, or Camden, or Jersey City, or even Elizabeth, Woodbridge ain’t – put that with the fact that when large groups of young Black folk get together, people tend to get hurt, and it’s perfectly understandable why the cops do what they do/don’t do depending on the racial makeup of the young kids hanging out. We all know this, especially Black Folk of the VSB Variety – you’re just not supposed to openly say so within possible earshot of Whites, lest risk being labelled a traitor to the Black Nation.

        Bunk Dat.

        Speaking of Newark, here’s a video featuring yet more of our Brothas & Sistas in action: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eZ2cE9EflZA

        O.

        • Todd

          You’re right, but White people do the same mess. Delafest last weekend anyone? The diff is that White kids showing their a$$ isn’t a representative of all Whites. With Black folk, we all supposed have secret meetings to coordinate the foolishness…and the opening of fried chicken spots. Gotta have that chicken. ;)

          Oh, and McGreevy’s advisors still run Woodbridge. He did a lot for the town, including nice basketball courts used most by Newark and Elizabeth dudes, ice hockey rinks and a skate park of the gods used twelve months a year. It was interesting living as the only Black people on my block for a yer and a half, but save for a barber, I was OK. The local Wegman’s even offered to special order smoked turkey for collard greens. LOL

    • http://www.twitter.com/Bmorebmw Tentpole

      O, stop drinking the Kool-Aid. Black women have been carrying the Black race for centuries. It was only a matter of time before Black women were going to run out of gas. Black men have not stepped in to pick up the slack and you now are faced with the result which you can eloquently reflect on. From now on beform you condem our women, ask where were the Black men. Because it not going to get fixed until WE fix it.

    • BriA

      O,

      You can always be counted on to turn your unnecessarily long posts into Black women and their mate value. Frankly, I don’t know how you do it. But , Bravo!

      VSB post: Why are skittles the best candy?
      O: Black women’s mate value is low so they are not able to taste the rainbow.
      Me: Wait, what?

      • IcePrincess3

        CTFU! Omg it’s too dang early for me to be laughing this hard!! Thanx, briA

      • http://obsidianraw.bravejournal.com Obsidian

        @Ms. Bria:
        Feel free to comment: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=t3e41prVDv4

        O.

        • BriA

          Ok, it’s quite sad that this woman expects a handout for having a football team of kids. She didn’t consult me or any other BW before she did it, so what does that have to do with anything?

          Why do you use VSB to post your long-winded rants instead of putting them on your own blog. Does anyone not read your blog or are you trying to reach a broader audience? Not being mean. Serious question.

          • Sweet GA Brown

            He will not answer this question either.

          • Ms. Bridget

            I guess it’s like posting a flyer in Times Square. You could post it in your own neighborhood but then nobody would see it…

            • Sweet GA Brown

              “Boom.”- O

            • BriA

              Welp!

      • Kema

        Bria you just made my day!!! lol! I wanna taste the rainbow too. What should I do O?

        • http://obsidianraw.bravejournal.com Obsidian

          @Ms. Kema:
          Civilize Black Women.

          Good luck with that…

          O.

          • Charlie

            Dude…http://cdn.memegenerator.net/instances/400x/23158356.jpg

            Oh yea because that how you really feel.

          • BriA

            Wow. Just…..wow.

            I would tell you to have a nice, warm, permanent seat but I’m pretty sure my -00000000000.1% mate value doesn’t give me the right to do so.

          • Kema

            The black women I know are civilized. Maybe you need to hang with better people.

    • http://obsidianraw.bravejournal.com Obsidian

      I see quite few people out there don’t believe me. Alright then – here’s some hard evidence to backup my claims. Let’s start with Ms. Ratchet on the bus who tossed her baby to fight another Sista on the bus: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gLJ0Qzuh4iA

      Please feel free to link the Honey Boo-Boo version?

      More coming up – stay tuned!

      O.

      • http://www.twitter.com/Bmorebmw Tentpole

        O, you are addressing the symptom not the cause. You point is based on generations of lack of development in our community

        • http://obsidianraw.bravejournal.com Obsidian

          @Tentpole:
          Black folk under the heel of Jim Crow didn’t act this way. What happened?

          O.

          • http://www.twitter.com/Bmorebmw Tentpole

            MLK got shot

            • http://obsidianraw.bravejournal.com Obsidian

              MLK getting shot 45 years ago is the reason why Black folk act a fool today?

              http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=M5FR1LGsT7E

              Really?

              O.

              • http://www.twitter.com/Bmorebmw Tentpole

                Yes, No one has been able to fill his shoes to keep on the the pathe to achieve our true destiny. Unless you know something I don’t

                • http://obsidianraw.bravejournal.com Obsidian

                  @Tentpole:
                  You mean to tell me the reason why the term Ratchet wasn’t even around back in the day and Black folk as a group behaved like actual human beings was due in entirely to one Man – MLK?

                  Really?

                  O.

                  • http://www.twitter.com/Bmorebmw Tentpole

                    Again yes. MLK was able to greate a movement where we didn’t burn, break, or kill anyone and was able to turn the course of history where we were starting to get the respect we deserved. it only took 20 yrs to erase that

          • http://missrosen.wordpress.com esa

            ~What happened?

            COINTELPRO + Benign Neglect + Welfare Legislation + CIA manufacturing crack and AIDS + the prison industrial complex

            the U.S. government has had a long, strong hand in bringing down its people once the Civil Rights Act was passed.

            • http://obsidianraw.bravejournal.com Obsidian

              @Ms. Esa:
              OK…so how do we explain all the Good Negroes on VSB? How did we dodged all those conspiratorial bullets?

              Hmm?

              O.

              • http://missrosen.wordpress.com esa

                very good question.

                i was speaking with a colleague talking about him making it out of the South Bronx. why him and not his friends? he said, “I don’t know.”

                sometimes there is no clear answer for why some survive and others perish under similar conditions. most situations are multi-determined, so we’d need to do a deep, case by case analysis.

                • http://missrosen.wordpress.com esa

                  mmmoderation ~*~

              • http://www.alltherightquestions.com T.Q. Fuego

                I agree with Esa. To answer your question O, luck of the draw. Parenting and environment are the most important factors imo.

                • Sweet GA Brown

                  True

                • Ms. Bridget

                  And even then there are variations. Ever see siblings as different as night and day? I have. Luck of the draw indeed!

                  • http://www.alltherightquestions.com T.Q. Fuego

                    @ Ms Bridget- Woooord. People are too complicated for his brand of analysis/reasoning.

      • hugs n kisses

        So are you saying black women/girls are the only ones that get into violent fights? Because we all know that isn’t true. Those cheerleaders in Fl from a while back made headlines for theirs and for every video you post of black women fighting, I’m sure I can find 2 of black men.

        • http://obsidianraw.bravejournal.com Obsidian

          @Ms. Hugs & Kisses:
          Please read for comprehension. I called out Brothas, too (even mentioned one by name: Kwame Kilpatrick).

          http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MwAioSrD_MQ

          Motown has been a Black-run city for nearly half a century – and they’ve run it into the ground.

          Fact.

          O.

          • hugs n kisses

            I read quite well, thank you. However in many of your comments you “challenge” to find this happening outside of a certain demographic as if it doesn’t happen. Your OWN words: Please feel free to link the Honey Boo-Boo version? Feel free to post up the White/non-Black kids in DC doing the same:

    • http://obsidianraw.bravejournal.com Obsidian

      Here’s a bit of footage of a large gang brawl at a Caribbean festival in Panama’s hometown the Chocolate City. Feel free to post up the White/non-Black kids in DC doing the same: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_orLxcW9qqE

      More, coming up…

      O.

      • http://www.styleillusions.com WIP

        I haven’t read everything y’all are talking about at the moment but I have to add that this video was ridiculous. Those kids didn’t even want to fight; they weren’t sure how to really have a “large gang brawl.”

    • http://obsidianraw.bravejournal.com Obsidian

      Here’s a video of two young Sistas beating up a White lady on the train in NYC. Brooklyn stand up!

      http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_orLxcW9qqE

      O.

    • http://obsidianraw.bravejournal.com Obsidian

      Here’s a Sista lookin’ like Simon Phoenix about to do a Jason Bourne move on NYC’s 6 train: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HHxEgtJpTYs

      O.

      • camilleblu

        i don’t know that i agree that all of our issues are caused because we don’t have a present day MLK, but i do want to know is what are you doing to help address the issues that WE – black men AND women – have within society. i mean, yeah – you’re quick to point out every discretion that you can possibly get your hands on, but so what? how exactly are you trying to better the situation? i mean, unless you are pulling one thick @ss wool blanket over our eyes, i believe you to be a black man, so you are affected directly or indirectly by every one of these stupid @ss videos that you’re posting. so in a nutshell, besides pointing your little black fingers, how exactly are you helping?

        • Kema

          “so in a nutshell, besides pointing your little black fingers, how exactly are you helping?”

          Again… Inquiring minds want to know!

          • http://obsidianraw.bravejournal.com Obsidian

            @Ms. Kema:
            Again, I reiterate what I said to Ms. CamilleBlue:

            What am I doing? I’m witnessing, and telling the truth. Hopefully, it will continue to make as many people feel uncomfortable as possible – good! Perhaps that discomfort will motivate a critical mass of Black folk to put an end to the Mass Ratchetness that has taken over Black America like the Borg from Star Trek.

            That’s what I’m doing.

            And now, here’s some more interesting footage of our people in action: http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=endscreen&NR=1&v=mJJX0GpCSkA

            Wild Cougar really should hire some of these Sistas – they’re natural prizefighters!

            O.

            • Charcoal Burnt Brother Lover

              O,

              If all you do is talk, and not partake in action, how then are we to take you seriously? Even the preachers of the good Word go out into the community and get their hands diiiirty! Talk without action is inaction.

            • http://www.alltherightquestions.com T.Q. Fuego

              With all due respect O that’s a terrible strategy. That’s all you got? Really? Very disappointing. Mainly because black people already know we’re in a mess and that our youth are lost (especially the lower class ones) so holding the mirror up does nothing but frustrate and divide us (civilized negroes for ratchets…which only makes it worse for us all) . When has making people feel inferior made them do any better? (Black people specifically) As an intelligent black man who could be using your knowledge to be a leader and organize some productive change or guidance you choose to just hold up the mirror to ppl who already realize they’re lost. You and I both know that’s not gonna lead to anything but an emotional reaction or a shrug of the shoulders. It’s pointless. folks have been doing it for decades. People need an action plan and some directions/guidance, not more shame. I would’ve expected a wise gent such as yourself to know better.

              (And for the record I agree with u about the n-word being the least of our concerns. I’m also tired of talking about it.)

        • http://obsidianraw.bravejournal.com Obsidian

          @Ms. CamilleBlue:
          Good question! Here’s my response:

          I’m helping by holding up the Mirror of Scathing, Scalding Truth up to certain sectors and quarters of Black America to show itself what it’s actually doing in realtime. That’s what I’m doing.

          Not bad…

          O.

          • camilleblu

            So, nothing but pointing fingers. Great. At least you’re honest.

            • http://obsidianraw.bravejournal.com Obsidian

              @Ms. CamilleBlue:
              No; actually I’m an active member of my community and a productive member of society at large. But it’s very, very important to stop the BSing that passes for informed conversation in Black circles and for once, actually discuss what’s going on under our own noses and we refuse to recognize the stench and everyone outside Black America tries to pretend they don’t smell either. Bunk. Dat.

              O.

              • http://missrosen.wordpress.com esa

                with all due respect, Mr. O, may i ask :: how do you evaluate the success of your approach ?

                • http://obsidianraw.bravejournal.com Obsidian

                  @Ms. Esa:
                  By the amount of response it generates. People reading this know I’m right deep down; indeed, it’s their Cognitive Dissonance that makes them respond in the first place.

                  We need brave Black People to speak the truth, despite White Folks hearing it.

                  I’m doing that.

                  Join me.

                  O.

                  • http://missrosen.wordpress.com esa

                    i believe response only matters if it creates quantifiable results.

                    • camilleblu

                      what’s that word o loves to use?? oh yeah – BOOM!

                    • http://www.alltherightquestions.com T.Q. Fuego

                      +1 Esa even politicians occasionally do more than just talk.

              • camilleblu

                as i am. but you’re talking AT everyone(an by everyone i mean mostly black women) instead of TO everyone. call it sensitive feelings all you want. Delivery matters – period and you deliver the way that you do – condescending and rude – under the guise of “i’m just bringing it to y’all straight, no chaser”… in your words – Bunk. Dat.

                • http://obsidianraw.bravejournal.com Obsidian

                  @Ms. CamillBlue:
                  It’s condescending and rude to merely point out the clear as day to anyone with one good eye facts?

                  Really?

                  That’s BS – an Orwellian PC ploy to keep from calling anyone on the carpet and demand that they hold themselves personally responsible for anything in their own lives. And it’s sickening, and an affront to all that MLK and so many others stood for.

                  That, is why I say, Bunk Dat.

                  We must do better. One way to make that happen, is to continually hold up the mirror of truth to ourselves. Without apology, or excuses.

                  Period.

                  O.

                  • camilleblu

                    ok…so you’re holding up the mirror of YOUR truth mr. super black man…AND??? i have yet to see you post ideas about how to make things better…b/c you just saying “you’re wrong, you’re wrong” every d@mn day does not help anything sans a plan to try to turn things around. why don’t you post some links to some community organizations that you’re leading/involved with that address the issues that you’ve pointed out today? that would be a start.

                    • Kamum

                      This!!O pointing out poblems left right center makes you no different from them offer a solution or shut the hell up.

        • malvagio tempesta

          Nothing, just talking crap.

    • amber l

      I’m so tired of the black women ain’t ish routine. Other than that I agree with your notion that black folks should worry moreabout the internal hatred & destrction of one another than those outside of us. I think it’s important to call each otger to the carpet for offenses among to be an example to the outside showing them that if we don’t accept it from one another we surely wont from others. This also goes to you and yourobvious disgust and hatred of BW it is NOT productive to the conversation so folk will automatically dismiss even your valid points.

      • http://commentarybyvalentina.wordpress.com/ Val

        “This also goes to you and yourobvious disgust and hatred of BW it is NOT productive to the conversation so folk will automatically dismiss even your valid points.”

        +1

        • http://obsidianraw.bravejournal.com Obsidian

          @Ms. Val:
          I know you ain’t talkin’ -she who can’t be bothered to explain why, when asked point blank, they have such disgust at one Black Man in particular in the form of Steve Harvey? Trust me, Harvey is the least of Black America’s problems.

          By the way, here’s some interesting footage out of ATL: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gWGS7G-63MI

          O.

      • http://obsidianraw.bravejournal.com Obsidian

        @Ms. Amber:
        Again: please read for comprehension. I called both Black Men AND Women in my commentary. I even called one such Brotha out by name: Kwame Kilpatrick, disgraced Black mayor of Detroit. Perhaps you’ve heard of him: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kwame_Kilpatrick

        O.

      • Wild Cougar

        He hates black people, black women especially,he never has anything positive to say about us. Only hateful things. White people, on the other hand, are everything that is good and right about the world. There are characters like this in every corner. I think there is one on Boondocks. It represents O very well.

        • Kamum

          Uncle Rukus.. VSB has one of it own in the name of O. I wonder if he knows that if we wanted we would get a multitude of videos of black men acting up as well?

        • http://www.alltherightquestions.com T.Q. Fuego

          Lol WC u might be right. Often times he does sound like a sophisticated and educated version of Uncle Ruckus lol

        • http://obsidianraw.bravejournal.com Obsidian

          @Ms. Wild Cougar:
          “He hates black people, black women especially,he never has anything positive to say about us.”

          O: This is not true on either count.

          “Only hateful things.”

          O: So, what I’ve said here, is “hate”? Really? Didn’t I warn you about taking too many hits to the head in the ring?

          “White people, on the other hand, are everything that is good and right about the world.”

          O: Really? When have I ever said such a thing? I’d really like to see that quote.

          “There are characters like this in every corner. I think there is one on Boondocks. It represents O very well.”

          O: Too bad they don’t have a character for you…

          O.

    • malvagio tempesta

      No, you can’t say its mainly black women gone mad on public transportation and only post a few YouTube videos. I wanna see the studies,surveys, statistics, facts, pie charts, line graphs, bar graphs,Venn diagrams, whatever, that shows us it’s mainly black women. From legit websites too or hell even some newspaper articles, magazines, books,etc… I wanna make sure what you saying is real and not something you pulled out of your arse. Anybody can go on the WORLD wide web to post a few videos (which were amusing btw). Go head, go fetch me some actual proof. Make me believe what you said just this once.

      • Charlie

        +1

      • http://obsidianraw.bravejournal.com Obsidian

        @MT:

        Well, since you asked…

        The following is a recent piece appearing on Taki’s Magazine – the same online publication that featured John Derbyshire’s article The Talk that raised such a ruckus last Summer.

        http://takimag.com/article/guns_and_whites_steve_sailer#axzz2QjjMjjpH

        Black males have long held the record for highest number of gun-related homicides.

        Let’s start there, shall we?

        O.

        • malvagio tempesta

          Che diavolo è questo? I didn’t ask for that. I asked for studies and data about ” And more often than not, the offenders are BLACK WOMEN themselves” on public transportation part. I wanna see factual evidence either than the few Youtube videos you just posted. I’m very sure if your going to make such an absolute statement that you say is fact, you should be able to provide where you got those facts from. Now, go ahead and get me these studies.

          • http://obsidianraw.bravejournal.com Obsidian

            @MT:
            Oooops, my bad. Yes, you’re right, you did indeed ask for data and studies on the matter of Black Women acting out, etc. Well, to my knowledge, no such studies exist. However, that doesn’t mean that the phenomena isn’t real – and Black people themselves know this, hence Black Flight, which HAS been studied: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Black_flight

            O.

    • http://verysmartbrothas.com Panama Jackson

      Also old is the “black women are to blame for it all’ schtick but you keep running that one too. So I think we’re even.

      Also, I live here homey. And the Green Line is my line. It’s not the norm, no matter how many videos you pull. As somebody who lives so much in the “logical” realm, I’d assume you’d know that.

      More also, where is my moral outrage? I asked a question. One that cuts both ways in terms of thinking about how we view some of our own perspectives.

      VSB P

      • camilleblu

        listen….O and every man that agrees with his rhetoric needs to either be removed from being obligated to pay child support or be reimbursed for any monies that they have paid up towards child support up to this point. oh, and a hug would probably help a bit as well.

        • http://obsidianraw.bravejournal.com Obsidian

          @Ms. CamilleBlue:
          “listen….O and every man that agrees with his rhetoric needs to either be removed from being obligated to pay child support or be reimbursed for any monies that they have paid up towards child support up to this point. oh, and a hug would probably help a bit as well.”

          O: ??? What does child support, one way or another, have to do with the topic at hand? Please explain?

          On the other hand, hugs from beautiful Women are always welcome. :)

          O.

      • http://obsidianraw.bravejournal.com Obsidian

        @Panama:
        “Also old is the “black women are to blame for it all’ schtick but you keep running that one too. So I think we’re even.”

        O: Ha! Hardly. When have I ever blamed Black Women for all the evils of this world – or the next? I’d surely like to see that quote. I think I’ve been very pointed in my critiques of certain Black Women.

        “Also, I live here homey. And the Green Line is my line. It’s not the norm, no matter how many videos you pull. As somebody who lives so much in the “logical” realm, I’d assume you’d know that.”

        O: So what? I never argued that it was the norm. What I’ve argued is that it’s a problem that seems to be quite unique to us. THAT’s my point – and you can dodge it all you like, but at the end of the day, one’s actions, in this case Black Folk Like You, belies your words. And again, THAT’s my point.

        “More also, where is my moral outrage? I asked a question. One that cuts both ways in terms of thinking about how we view some of our own perspectives.”

        O: Which is that we as Black folk want to have it both ways, as some kind of recompense for real and perceived slights of the past. We want to be able to sling around the socalled N-word, but want to vilify any White or otherwise non-Black person when they do it. We want to be varigated when it suits us, and then form up like Voltron when it suits us. We wanna be educated and sophisticated when it suits us, then be a bit Ratchet when it suits us. Well, I’m saying that such a schizophrenic way of doing things accounts for much of the problems Black folk seem to have more in abundance than others, and I am suggesting that perhaps it just might be time to examine all of that.

        Oh, by the way, none of what I’m saying here is or should be alien to you; here’s what your partner in crime Champ, had to say not too long ago:

        Is It Ever “Ok” For Whites To Criticize Blacks? http://verysmartbrothas.com/is-it-ever-ok-for-whites-to-criticize-blacks/

        Why is what he said OK, and what I’m saying today not OK? What’s the big difference? What’s the big deal?

        Please explain?

        O.

    • h.h.h.

      “So, the real question here, my friend, is WHY are there so many Black young people so woefully, demonstrably outta pocket – and WHY are so many Black people – particularly those of the VSB variety – so good with it?”

      Because it doesn’t happen when we’re on the train/bus?

      before you gleefully respond with a video of 2 black boys, black girls acting up on a nyc bus, or a nyc train, please keep in mind Sir O, that the NYC subway delivered about 1.65 billion rides last year. that comes out to about 5 million rides a weekday, 3 million rides on Saturdays, little over 2 million on Sunday.

      now out of those 1.6 billion rides last year, we don’t know how many were black, but the examples you’re showing are not indicative of the typical riding experience. Unless you’re trying to hypothesize that for the 2 million or so black people that actually live in the 5 boroughs, this is a typical experience.

      FWIW, i typically take the trains in manhattan, and i have yet to see anything out of the ordinary, other than the rats trying to board.

      to answer your question…kids act up. parents should teach their kids to behave whilst in public. that crosses all ethnicities.

      What do you think the solution should be, as black males? what do you think we should do to alleviate the situation so that no black child ever acts up on the subway ever again?

      • http://commentarybyvalentina.wordpress.com/ Val

        Now see, you are trying to confuse him by asking for actual facts. That’s not fair.

        • h.h.h.

          but im quite sincere though…

          while we have a generation of youth that are generally, more forgiving, more tolerant than previous generations,

          we also have a generation of youth, that in certain situations, get out of control. i mean, i still remember reading about the kind in the dmv area that was beaten and left for dead by youths, because he offered some girl a slurpee.

          so if i see something like this, about to pop off…what are we supposed to do, other than contact authorities?

          i’m just trying to push the conversation past the usual pointing of fingers, towards an actual lesson, an actual message/solution going forward. we’re a bunch of very smart b’s and s’s…shouldn’t be too hard, no?

          • http://www.alltherightquestions.com T.Q. Fuego

            Thank u HHH. I have faith this convo can actually become productive.

          • http://commentarybyvalentina.wordpress.com/ Val

            I absolutely do not doubt your sincerity, only his. My point, H.H.H, is that he has no facts, only anecdotes to back up his rhetoric. So, to engage with him is always a masturbatory exercise.

            Listing problems only requires having ears and eyes but coming up with solutions requires actual intellect. So, I think you may be expecting a bit much from him.

            • http://obsidianraw.bravejournal.com Obsidian

              @Ms. Val:
              “I absolutely do not doubt your sincerity, only his. My point, H.H.H, is that he has no facts, only anecdotes to back up his rhetoric. So, to engage with him is always a masturbatory exercise.”

              O: This, coming from the Resident Perpetual Black Lesbian Victim of VSB Who Can ONLY Talk Smack – rich!

              “Listing problems only requires having ears and eyes but coming up with solutions requires actual intellect. So, I think you may be expecting a bit much from him.”

              O: The solutions are quite simple; Bill Cosby said it himself:

              “When I say I don’t care what white people think, I mean that. I mean, I’m addressing my people, period. I’m telling you, I want all this loud profanity in the street stopped. You have got to stop and think. I want the 55 percent dropout rate stopped, period. It’s epidemic. I want people to think about choices. I want you to begin to see yourself as somebody. I want you to stop doing things that are detrimental to your getting at least an education with a high school credential.”

              Got that, Ms. Val?

              Now, when you can actually form a coherent argument as to why you have a Pavlovian response to the words Steve Harvey, come back and we’ll have an enlightened discussion…mkay?

              O.

          • mena

            I just feel like race doesn’t play as huge of a role in where you can go in life and yet, we continue to feed our children with a defeatist attitude. You can make aware and still be optimistic.

            I think it’s time that we recognize and understand that there is a class division in our community just like in all racial communities. Where you are financially can determine a lot more on where you end up going. Higher education is key as well.

            If you see something about to pop off, it is best to remove yourself from the situation. If you see someone about to get hurt, in all seriousness, call the cops.

            I don’t know how to stop this from happening with our youth but usually those youths are from the same economic class. Or really that’s my perception when I see it reported on the news.

            Also, as society progresses, we become more desensitized to acts of violence. And kids, regardless of where they are from or their race, don’t fully grasp the consequences of their actions.

            • http://commentarybyvalentina.wordpress.com/ Val

              Opportunity and the belief that they can control important things in their lives are both the cure for what ails this particular segment of youth.

              Most of their actions are predicated on the belief that they don’t matter and they have no real chance of ever mattering.

              So, it’s important that they truly believe that if they do certain things the game that is life will not just change the rules on them, which is the case now.

              I truly believe that economic empowerment is the cure. But, America does not have the inclination to change their economic plight as America has a vested interest in the poor staying poor.

              There are whole industries that rely on poor people to keep them going, like the prison industry, check cashing industry, the injustice system, the welfare industry, the military and many others.

              • h.h.h.

                +33

              • mena

                But we must also realize that there will be poor people. Point blank.

                We are in agreement. I will always believe that where you are economically will have a direct impact on your well being than your race.

                With the way the educational system is today, this will be the first time we see people with higher educations barely living outside of poverty.

                Our higher Ed system will be the next economic collapse.

                • http://obsidianraw.bravejournal.com Obsidian

                  @Ms. Mena:
                  “But we must also realize that there will be poor people. Point blank.”

                  O: What does being poor have to do with it?

                  “We are in agreement. I will always believe that where you are economically will have a direct impact on your well being than your race.”

                  O: Again, what does either have to do with how you behave and comport yourself? And if that’s true, until very recently, the majority of African Americans were quite poor, yet comported themselves in ways that are all be alien for significant portions of Blacks today. What’s up with that?

                  “With the way the educational system is today, this will be the first time we see people with higher educations barely living outside of poverty.”

                  O: That’s not true; people in academia never made a lot of money historically, and in fact it was often seen as a decision to answer to a higher calling in life than merely making bank.

                  “Our higher Ed system will be the next economic collapse.”

                  O: I don’t disagree; but again, what does any of this have to do with Black folk living trife?

                  O.

                  • mena

                    O, many of the prominent leaders during the civil rights era were educated. Even though they weren’t highly paid, they were respected in our community and education opened their eyes to a wholenother world.

                    Blacks acted a certain way out of fear of being lynched O. Lets not forget this. Lets also stop thinking that black men were all powerful in the household prior to the civil rights movement. Black women have been carrying the black family since slavery.

                    • http://obsidianraw.bravejournal.com Obsidian

                      @Ms. Mena:
                      My replies are below…

                      O.

            • h.h.h.

              i see what you’re saying. and i agree with Val…maybe it has something to do with ‘worth’. especially in our young black males. maybe if they were shown more community love and valued more? *dunno*

              • http://obsidianraw.bravejournal.com Obsidian

                @Triple H:
                So, how is it that Black males of a previous era weren’t acting out in such clearly self-destructive ways, even while living under the heel of Jim Crow? Please explain?

                O.

                • h.h.h.

                  “So, how is it that Black males of a previous era weren’t acting out in such clearly self-destructive ways, even while living under the heel of Jim Crow?”

                  what, you mean like hustlers, pimps, robbers like the notorious “Detroit Red”, Malcolm Little?

                  i don’t know, my family isn’t native to this country. you tell me, kind sir O.

              • mena

                I’m not saying that being valued doesn’t play a part but I am focusing on the bigger picture.

                Once you are secure enough to move out of dire situations, you move to neighborhoods where they care about their environment and the people there. More opportunities open up. So on an so forth. If you continue to ask other people to define your self worth, you are doomed to fail. It’s defeatist to teach our kids that society doesn’t care about them. What message are you sending?

                • http://obsidianraw.bravejournal.com Obsidian

                  @Ms. Mena:
                  Question:

                  How did Jackie Robinson respond to the way he was treated in life? Did he use that as an excuse to act a fool? Or did he use that as fuel to show the world what Black folk could do and be?

                  Hmm?

                  O.

                  • mena

                    What are you talking about?

                    Jackie Robinson could be used as an example for what I wrote.

                    • http://commentarybyvalentina.wordpress.com/ Val

                      *to no one in particular*

                      Actually Jackie Robinson did act a fool in the military when he was told to ride on the back of a military bus and refused. He was arrested and his whole military career was ruined. They darn near threw him out. So, even Jackie Robinson could get indignant in the right circumstance.

          • http://obsidianraw.bravejournal.com Obsidian

            @Triple H:
            “but im quite sincere though…”

            O: On this, I have no doubt.

            “while we have a generation of youth that are generally, more forgiving, more tolerant than previous generations,”

            O: Really? Evidence please?

            “we also have a generation of youth, that in certain situations, get out of control. i mean, i still remember reading about the kind in the dmv area that was beaten and left for dead by youths, because he offered some girl a slurpee.”

            O: Doesn’t that sound a heck of a lot like the videos I’ve been posting all morning?

            “so if i see something like this, about to pop off…what are we supposed to do, other than contact authorities?”

            O: YES. Remember, we didin’t have “snitches get stitches” back in the day…

            “i’m just trying to push the conversation past the usual pointing of fingers, towards an actual lesson, an actual message/solution going forward. we’re a bunch of very smart b’s and s’s…shouldn’t be too hard, no?”

            O: No; and in truth, we all know what the “solutions” are, which is why I scoff at those who try to come at me with that BS canard. It’s not about “solutions, it’s about having COURAGE to call out Black folks who are whacked and are messing it up for the rest of us. We have to drive a wooden stake in the heart of the “you can’t judge me” culture. There ARE rights and wrongs in this world, full stop – and we not only shouldn’t be cowed into not saying so, we should be shouting down anyone who attempts to say otherwise to the tops of our voices.

            We know what to do, we’re just too cowardly to do it.

            O.

            • h.h.h.

              ““while we have a generation of youth that are generally, more forgiving, more tolerant than previous generations,”

              O: Really? Evidence please?”

              i’ve taken the A/C/E trains while in the city for 8 years, based on my experiences on those trains, i am qualified to make that statement (just like you are below) :)

              • Kamum

                He has no evidence hence spewing jargon

              • http://obsidianraw.bravejournal.com Obsidian

                @Triple H:
                “i’ve taken the A/C/E trains while in the city for 8 years, based on my experiences on those trains, i am qualified to make that statement (just like you are below)”

                O: Yea – and I’ve been in NYC in the 80s, 90s, 00s and 2010s, including living there very recently, and I just so happen to see things that you’ve never seen! And that just so happens to align with what so many other native NYers have seen to boot! Funny that…

                O.

      • Rewind

        And we have a winner.

      • Kema

        I have seen two professionally dressed white women go at it on the NYC Subway. That doesnt make me go “hmmm… white women are so ratchet”

        • http://obsidianraw.bravejournal.com Obsidian

          @Ms. Kema:
          Hmm TWO White Women, out of a city of some 8 million people, roughly half of whom are White, at least.

          OoooooKaaaay…

          O.

          • http://twitter.com/inomallday Shamira

            I don’t see how you listing a handful of anecdotal experiences is any different from her seeing one experience. But proceed with the flawed logic, sir.

            • http://obsidianraw.bravejournal.com Obsidian

              @Ms. Shamira:
              Because, chances are high that one will observe far more of what I’ve actually posted video of, than what Ms. Kema claims to have witnessed – that’s how/why.

              And again: we’ve discussed these topics before at VSB – I’m just being much more pointed/blunt/candid about it. So what’s the fuss?

              O.

              • Kema

                “Because, chances are high that one will observe far more of what I’ve actually posted video of”

                Where is the data that supports this?

                • http://obsidianraw.bravejournal.com Obsidian

                  @Ms. Kema:
                  It is well known that Black folk tend to commit a higher proportion of violent street crime than anyone else, and this is especially true in places like NYC – which explains why Compstat, Stop & Frisk and the like, has been so wildly successful in bringing Black street crime down – way, way down.

                  Sorry, Ms. Kema, but the plain truth of it is that NYC isn’t besottled with White Women cutting a fool. Far from it.

                  O.

      • http://obsidianraw.bravejournal.com Obsidian

        @Triple H:
        “Because it doesn’t happen when we’re on the train/bus?”

        Precisely. You’ve just made my point for me – we don’t have a Black community, and haven’t had one for a very long time now. Eugene Robinson discusses this fact in his book Disintegration.

        “before you gleefully respond with a video of 2 black boys, black girls acting up on a nyc bus, or a nyc train, please keep in mind Sir O, that the NYC subway delivered about 1.65 billion rides last year. that comes out to about 5 million rides a weekday, 3 million rides on Saturdays, little over 2 million on Sunday.”

        O: Oh, I’m very familiar with the MTA system of NYC, havin spent large amounts of time there over the years, including actually living there between Summer 2009-late 2010. That gave me a chance to see up close and personal, some of the very things that happened on those videos I posted, and take a wild guess WHO was the ones acting out, every single time?

        You tell me. ;)

        “now out of those 1.6 billion rides last year, we don’t know how many were black, but the examples you’re showing are not indicative of the typical riding experience. Unless you’re trying to hypothesize that for the 2 million or so black people that actually live in the 5 boroughs, this is a typical experience.”

        O: Well…

        “FWIW, i typically take the trains in manhattan, and i have yet to see anything out of the ordinary, other than the rats trying to board.”

        O: If you will kindly note the videos, the locations where the incidents occur aren’t in Manhattan, but rather in the outer boroughs – like Brooklyn, or Queens. Again, I’ve lived in NYC recently, and have seen much of this firsthand.

        “to answer your question…kids act up. parents should teach their kids to behave whilst in public. that crosses all ethnicities.”

        O: Of course it should. The problem is, that Black folk aren’t parenting – much like Mr. Cosby rightly observed.

        “What do you think the solution should be, as black males? what do you think we should do to alleviate the situation so that no black child ever acts up on the subway ever again?”

        O: Stop and Frisk is your friend… :)

        O.

        • h.h.h.

          “That gave me a chance to see up close and personal, some of the very things that happened on those videos I posted, and take a wild guess WHO was the ones acting out, every single time?

          You tell me.”

          But, that’s your personal experience, your personal anecdote. and you’re using the youtube views of others…which would indicate a very small percentage of actual subway riders….

          i just stated 1.6 billion rides last year…do you have data outside of youtube videos, studies outside of your personal observations?

          You Tell Me.

          and i ask again, because honestly, living outside the ‘hood’, i don’t deal with stop and frisk, i deal with DWB, and i can maneuver around that for the most part. but outside of stop and frisk, what is a viable solution?

          or, not to be disrespectful, but is this the extent of which you can reach?

          • http://obsidianraw.bravejournal.com Obsidian

            @Triple H:
            “But, that’s your personal experience, your personal anecdote. and you’re using the youtube views of others…which would indicate a very small percentage of actual subway riders….”

            O: Yes, this is true.

            “i just stated 1.6 billion rides last year…do you have data outside of youtube videos, studies outside of your personal observations?

            You Tell Me.”

            O: No, I do not.

            But having sad that, allow me to ask you – here in Philly nearly two years ago, a Black Woman called up her “peeps” to shoot a Black Man who dared to speak out when she was clearly abusing her child (which happens a heck of a lot more often than we’re willing to admit; stay tuned for links, coming up…), which resulted in the 47 Bus getting shot fill of holes.

            Now, that was one incident, Triple H. Thing is: how many such incidents do YOU need, before you might think about getting on that particular busline again?

            I’ll tell you how many it takes for me: ONCE.

            “and i ask again, because honestly, living outside the ‘hood’, i don’t deal with stop and frisk, i deal with DWB, and i can maneuver around that for the most part. but outside of stop and frisk, what is a viable solution?”

            O: That IS the viable solution – and the dirty little secret is, that it’s worked. Locking up more anti-social, incorrigible, criminally-minded Black males who refuse to cooperate and do right, has made YOUR life safer, Triple H – and that’s true for just about every Black person reading this. That, and the fact that, as you said yourself, most Black folk reading this ain’t tryin’ to live where the kinds of Blacks on those videos live. Black Flight, is a very real thing.

            So, why can’t we openly talk about that? Why the need for the secret decoder ring?

            “or, not to be disrespectful, but is this the extent of which you can reach?”

            O: LOL, not at all; just merely responding to Panama’s question, is all.

            O.

            • h.h.h.

              “Now, that was one incident, Triple H. Thing is: how many such incidents do YOU need, before you might think about getting on that particular busline again?

              I’ll tell you how many it takes for me: ONCE.”

              i guess i’m desensitized to violence. if i wasn’t on that particular bus, i probably would be on that busroute the same week.

              “O: That IS the viable solution – and the dirty little secret is, that it’s worked. Locking up more anti-social, incorrigible, criminally-minded Black males who refuse to cooperate and do right, has made YOUR life safer, Triple H ”

              it works, but at what cost, sir O? that i have to wear a peacoat and loafers so i don’t arouse suspicion? if i’m more comfortable in fitted hat, nikes and sweats, i gotta get frisked, so that i’m safer in the long run? Irony is not without a cruel sense of humor.

              i guess what i’m getting at is how do we direct parenting styles to encourage prevention instead of provoking reaction…what i mean is the typical reaction is to increase police presence, which can escalate certain situations, how do we encourage prevention of rowdy behavior?

              • http://obsidianraw.bravejournal.com Obsidian

                @Triple H:
                “i guess i’m desensitized to violence. if i wasn’t on that particular bus, i probably would be on that busroute the same week.”

                O: Hey, it’s a free country; do you. But since I’ve seen (and been involved in as a bystander) firefights quite a few times, you’ll please pardon me if I decline to push my luck. I see something like that going down on mass transit, I’m done on said mass transit.

                “it works, but at what cost, sir O?”

                O: At the cost of keeping you alive, and not six feet under at the hands of another Black male looking like you who shot you because he didn’t like the way you looked at him. That’s the cost – and I think a good one.

                “that i have to wear a peacoat and loafers so i don’t arouse suspicion?”

                O: What, wearing a hoodie all the way over your head and jeans below your behind is a better option? Really?

                “if i’m more comfortable in fitted hat, nikes and sweats, i gotta get frisked, so that i’m safer in the long run? Irony is not without a cruel sense of humor.”

                O: No, it’s not – and I promise you, the minute guys running around in J. Crew gear go to breaking people’s legs while flashmobbing, shooting up bars and people at parties and the like, the cops will make a beeline for that profile. Until then however, yea, I’d watch wearing say, State Property gear on the streets, because you can and will be mistaken for one of the corner boys, not just by the cops, but by other corner boys, too.

                “i guess what i’m getting at is how do we direct parenting styles to encourage prevention instead of provoking reaction…what i mean is the typical reaction is to increase police presence, which can escalate certain situations, how do we encourage prevention of rowdy behavior?”

                O: By bringing back standards – which means, making judgments. We now live in a culture that says, that all things, ideas, cultures, actions, ae equal to other – and if you disagree, you’re a misogynist, a homophobe, a racist, an elitist, a snob, a sexist, a chauvinist, a classicist, an ageist, etc., et. al. And it’s all BUNK. Teaching basic right and wrong is what’s needed.

                And we all know it. We just don’t have the stones to actually say it out loud.

                Well, I’m doing that.

                O.

            • camilleblu

              “i just stated 1.6 billion rides last year…do you have data outside of youtube videos, studies outside of your personal observations?

              You Tell Me.”

              O: No, I do not.

              just wondering why you are the only one that can post “facts” with no “imperical evidence”??

              • http://obsidianraw.bravejournal.com Obsidian

                @Ms. CamilleBlue:
                “just wondering why you are the only one that can post “facts” with no “imperical evidence”??”

                O: Actually, that would be “empirical” and I have never held myself out as the one and only person to be able to, or should be able to, do thus and so; indeed, if anything, I am of the view that the more people attempting to argue from a position informed by the facts, the better!

                Look, we all know what I’m saying is true. How many times, right here at VSB, have we discussed the woefully Ratchet nature of so many Black folks?

                So, why are YOU, Ms. CamilleBlue, suddenly gettin’ rip with me? Because I’m merely discussing it?

                O.

                • camilleblu

                  mmkay…you proud of yourself for pointing out a typo? because you have never made one, correct? grow up. i’m questioning you because i choose to question you. your word is not law. and as far as EMPIRICAL evidence, i really wanted to know why you feel that you can negate someone else’s point for lack of EMPIRICAL evidence, but you have no problem stating your point with the same lack of EMPIRICAL evidence. what…black folks need to stay away from group think unless it’s your group think?

                  • Charcoal Burnt Brother Lover

                    camille, DANG! You fiiyah today!

                  • camilleblu

                    @ mami!! i’m sorry, but o can miss me with all the double talk today…he doesn’t get to just say whatever he feels like saying as if it’s written in the constitution and made into law. he’s not having a conversation, he’s spewing diatribe and i’m not here for it today. he needs to post a d@mn video of himself leading or at the very least participating in some organization that addresses all of the *perceived* evils that black women are guilty of and then a real conversation could be started.

                    • Charcoal Burnt Brother Lover

                      *raises fist in da urr and pats uncomabable fro with the other*!! you go girl!!

                  • http://obsidianraw.bravejournal.com Obsidian

                    @Ms. Camille Blue:
                    Due to space restrictions, my response to you comment above will appear at the end of this thread below…

                    O.

    • http://obsidianraw.bravejournal.com Obsidian

      @TQ:
      OK – so how do we explain Dr. Ben Carson – or Wes Moore?

      You were saying…?

      O.

    • Ani-Q

      Well aren’t you the happiest peacock this morning?
      I just want to understand what you were getting at and you have said nothing.
      You have reinforce my initial judgement call on you that you do have an agenda; signified by your ostentatious display when others inquire you to clarify or challenge you on your ideologies. But you couldn’t care less and have answer the women here with snide comments about their intelligence and civility, and in my case blatantly ignoring me. I have made an error and have fallen into the trap of your propaganda; I wont repeat this mistake in the future.

      Have a good day O.

      • http://obsidianraw.bravejournal.com Obsidian

        @Ms. Ani-Q:
        “Well aren’t you the happiest peacock this morning?”

        O: Every morning is a glorious one for yours truly, madam – and you?

        “I just want to understand what you were getting at and you have said nothing.”

        O: That’s because you haven’t asked me a direct question.

        “You have reinforce my initial judgement call on you that you do have an agenda; signified by your ostentatious display when others inquire you to clarify or challenge you on your ideologies.”

        O: LOL. You say that as if I’m guarding a state secret or something. I’ve never, ever, hidden the fact that my job is to bring balance to the Force – by bringing in the sides of the discussions that obtain in Black venues that rarely if ever gets heard. When it comes to questions of Black relationships and the like, I often say the things many, many Brothas want to say – which explains, if you’ve ever noticed, why so relatively few Brothas take me to task. They either vocally cosign, or remain silent (although quite a few contact me offlist -you’d be surprised – thanking me for speaking up.). And for all the talk so many Women, in this case Black, make of finding one’s voice and speaking one’s truth, they seem to suddenly lose their appetite when a Brotha takes up the mic.

        “But you couldn’t care less and have answer the women here with snide comments about their intelligence and civility”

        O: Wait, when have I called anyone here less than intelligent or uncivil? I missed that one…

        “, and in my case blatantly ignoring me. I have made an error and have fallen into the trap of your propaganda; I wont repeat this mistake in the future.”

        O: I wasn’t ignoring you; believe it or not I was having breakfast.

        “Have a good day O.”

        O: And you too madam!

        O.

        • Ani-Q

          Oye…*chuckles as I smh* you are something else.

          • http://obsidianraw.bravejournal.com Obsidian

            @Ani-Q:
            Thank you! I accept.

            And you not so bad yourself…

            ;)

            o.

    • http://obsidianraw.bravejournal.com Obsidian

      @Ms. Esa:
      “i believe response only matters if it creates quantifiable results.”

      O: You’re free to believe whatever you like.

      O.

    • Kamum

      “Or why Black Women can’t for the life of them straighten out their behavior and teach their daughters and other young Black girls to do the same ”

      Am African Kenyan for that matter. I have been taught that its the duty of both parents and the community at large to teach their children on proper behavior. However it seems in your books that only black women are to blame for everything that is wrong in the community? What did black women do to you that was so bad that makes you so bitter?
      Pointing out issues without offering solutions makes you very useless am afraid and unfortunately puts you as part of the problem and you are better off quiet.

      • http://obsidianraw.bravejournal.com Obsidian

        @Kamum:
        “Am African Kenyan for that matter.”

        O: Hello! I’ve had the chance to interact with a number of Kenyans over the years, very nice people in my experience.

        “I have been taught that its the duty of both parents and the community at large to teach their children on proper behavior.”

        O: We too, had this view in the Black community. No longer. Sad to say.

        “However it seems in your books that only black women are to blame for everything that is wrong in the community?”

        O: When have I ever said this? Please run that quote back to me? I’d surely like to see it.

        “What did black women do to you that was so bad that makes you so bitter?”

        O: LOL. I’m not bitter. Just telling it like it TIZ. And that can and will make quite a few people upset because I’m one of those Negroes who done went off the reservation.

        “Pointing out issues without offering solutions makes you very useless am afraid and unfortunately puts you as part of the problem and you are better off quiet.”

        O: You’re more than free to your opinion; but I can and will keep pointing out – vocally, with mucho volume – what everyone keeps trying to pretend clearly is not there.

        The Empress is bucka**ed nekkid…

        O.

        • Kamum

          Your entire post just reeks of it the black women’s fault add to the video link provided. News flash every, and I MEAN EVERY community has ill behaved people even the white community you so covet…

          • http://obsidianraw.bravejournal.com Obsidian

            @Ms.(?) Kamum:
            So what? The ridiculous counterargument of “White people do it too!” is not only irrelevant, but silly. The issue is what BLACK PEOPLE ARE DOING OR NOT DOING, not what White people are doing or not doing. honestly, this is yet another instance of Black folk looking to blame any and everything instead of taking a good, long hard look in the mirror, and deciding if they want to do better or not.

            Bunk.

            O.

    • http://obsidianraw.bravejournal.com Obsidian

      @Ms. Charlie:
      “As a proud african, it came from the motherland and evolved…”

      O: Yes, I’ve heard; are you arguing, seriously, that the Twerk Team got their dance from some culture in Africa – and if so, for what purpose? I mean, was the original African Twerk, done for the same purpose as the Twerk Team and millions of African American Women over here are doing it – for sexual display and access? And if so, on what basis would you make this claim? Please explain?

      O.

      • http://obsidianraw.bravejournal.com Obsidian

        @Ms. Charlie:
        I take it you’re from the Ivory Coast?

        http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mapouka

        O.

        • Charlie

          Liberia, never been; first generation American

      • Charlie

        Yes it was some tribes way to sexually arouse the men and to celebrate fertility. Now its just apart of our culture,with old ladies doing it, dropping it down low. From the african parties ive been too, the lower she gets, the louder we clap and holler. Its fun.

        • http://obsidianraw.bravejournal.com Obsidian

          @Ms. Charlie:
          “Liberia, never been; first generation American”

          O: Hmm, I see…

          “Yes it was some tribes way to sexually arouse the men and to celebrate fertility. Now its just apart of our culture,with old ladies doing it, dropping it down low. From the african parties ive been too, the lower she gets, the louder we clap and holler. Its fun.”

          O: Knock yourself out…

          O.

    • http://obsidianraw.bravejournal.com Obsidian

      @Ms. Mena:
      “What are you talking about?

      Jackie Robinson could be used as an example for what I wrote.”

      O: Really? How so? Please explain?

      O.

    • http://runningwithhumans.blogspot.com/ dimaati

      Obsidian, I wasn’t even going there with you today but honestly, you reached a bit too far on this point. We live in the same city & travel the same subway & bus lines. So this idea of only Black women acting a fool on SEPTA is lost on me because of the incidents that have happened in this city were committed by men, young Black men at that. The robberies & assaults on the 52; the shooting on the subway after a Sixer’s game; the groping of women last summer on the El; the robbery on the Broad St line Station when the girl was tossed onto the rails; shooting of the 47 bus; beatdown at Market East Station of the White guy trying to get on PATCO.I can go on you know…

      These are act of violence by young Black men with no direction in life or care for anything else but themselves. So yes, some White folks would look at this & want to blanket all of us with that type of behavior & say that’s normal for American Black folk. But I doubt most VSB & VSS are concerned about what happens to the criminals that they have to avoid on a daily basis because they’re secure in the knowledge that they aren’t them. So even if the majority of White folks were to stand up, point a finger & say, “All of you Black folks are animals.”, they’d laugh, shrug & easily remind them of their animalistic behaviors & continue about their business.

      So keep eroding your original post with so much hyperbolic fodder. You just negate any possible good that you can do…smdh!

      • http://obsidianraw.bravejournal.com Obsidian

        @Ms. Dimaati:
        “Obsidian, I wasn’t even going there with you today”

        O: It’s always nice when you go there with me, Ms. Dimaati. ;)

        “but honestly, you reached a bit too far on this point.”

        O: Have I? Let’s count the ways, shall we?

        “We live in the same city & travel the same subway & bus lines.”

        O: True on both counts.

        “So this idea of only Black women acting a fool on SEPTA is lost on me because of the incidents that have happened in this city were committed by men, young Black men at that.”

        O: That doesn’t come as any great surprise or shock to me at all, because I never made any such claim.

        “The robberies & assaults on the 52; the shooting on the subway after a Sixer’s game; the groping of women last summer on the El; the robbery on the Broad St line Station when the girl was tossed onto the rails; shooting of the 47 bus; beatdown at Market East Station of the White guy trying to get on PATCO.I can go on you know…”

        O: Indeed you can – and thank you for arguing in support of my point!-that Black people, Black males especially, do indeed have an inordinate violent crime problem and have for quite a long time now. Oh, and please note that I did indeed mention the Shootout On The 47 Bus nearly two years ago. Thanks again for mentioning how Black Women can often be involved in acting a fool. :)

        Since you’re a pretty sharp Sista, I’m pretty sure you’re a regular reader of Philadelphia Magazine, right? Here’s one of its staffers, Victo Fiorillo, discussing yet another Black Baby Mama incident on our fair mass transit system, SEPTA:

        White Guy Confronts Black Mom Beating Kids on SEPTA Trolley: Why didn’t one other passenger stand up with me? http://blogs.phillymag.com/the_philly_post/2012/01/03/parents-beat-kids-public-part-ii/

        Now, Ms. Dimaati, since we’re born and bred in Philly, lemme ask you, straight up:

        Are you going to sit there, and tell me with a straightface, that you don’t know what Mr. Fiorillo is talking about? That you’ve never seen what he’s talking about? That Black Women don’t seem to have a particular link to that kind of behavior, in larger amounts to other kinds of Women in Philly taking SEPTA? We’ve both taken it for many years, Ms. Dimaati. Be brutally honest with me now – isn’t it something that we tend to see just a bit too much with Black Women, over other Women in Philly?

        Hmm?

        “These are act of violence by young Black men with no direction in life or care for anything else but themselves.”

        O: True, and I said as much in my original comment above.

        “So yes, some White folks would look at this & want to blanket all of us with that type of behavior & say that’s normal for American Black folk.”

        O: As is their right. White people have the right to think whatever they like about Black folk and anyone else, last time I checked.

        “But I doubt most VSB & VSS are concerned about what happens to the criminals that they have to avoid on a daily basis because they’re secure in the knowledge that they aren’t them. So even if the majority of White folks were to stand up, point a finger & say, “All of you Black folks are animals.”, they’d laugh, shrug & easily remind them of their animalistic behaviors & continue about their business.”

        O: I’m sure. But that’s not the point I’m making, and you know it. My points were clearly delineated in my commentary above, you’re just too butthurt to actually admit it.

        “So keep eroding your original post with so much hyperbolic fodder. You just negate any possible good that you can do…smdh!”

        O: The good I’m doing here is saying outloud what we’re all thinking, and as I said before, nothing I’ve said here hasn’t already been said, right here at VSB, and often, by the very hosts themselves(!). So again, what’s the fuss?

        Oh, and I have something special for you birthday coming up…stay tuned! :)

        O.

    • http://obsidianraw.bravejournal.com Obsidian

      @Ms. CamilleBlue:
      “mmkay…you proud of yourself for pointing out a typo?”

      O: It wasn’t a matter of pride.

      “because you have never made one, correct? grow up.”

      O: Thank you! I’ll take your unsolicited advice under advisement.

      “i’m questioning you because i choose to question you.”

      O: Questions are good!

      “your word is not law.”

      O: I am the law. ;)

      “and as far as EMPIRICAL evidence, i really wanted to know why you feel that you can negate someone else’s point for lack of EMPIRICAL evidence, but you have no problem stating your point with the same lack of EMPIRICAL evidence.”

      O: Ms. Blue, I’ve offered far and away more empirical evidence than the vast majority of my interlocutors combined, and that did not prevent them from dismissing it because of thei overly emotive subjective ideological reasons. I never claimed to present empirical evidence today, for the simple reason that everyone here knows precisely what I’m talking about – and once again, instead of being the vey kinds of grown ups you claim I am not, we wanna get all in our feelings about taking a hard look in the mirror of Black folk writ large. I am saying, we need to get over it pronto.

      “what…black folks need to stay away from group think unless it’s your group think?”

      O: Actually, Black folks getting away from groupthink would be a heck of an improvement – perhaps we’d make a dent in the runaway levels of Racthetness in Black America if we did that…

      O.

    • http://obsidianraw.bravejournal.com Obsidian

      @Ms. Mena:
      “O, many of the prominent leaders during the civil rights era were educated. Even though they weren’t highly paid, they were respected in our community and education opened their eyes to a wholenother world.”

      O: That may be true, but how are we to account for the thousands of participants of the Civil Rights Movement who weren’t so educated – yet they managed to act with dignity and decorum? Hmm? Last time I checked, I didn’t know Fannie Lou Hamer graduated Harvard Magna Cum Laude.

      “Blacks acted a certain way out of fear of being lynched O. Lets not forget this.”

      O: OK, so Black Men like my grandfather, acted with dignity here in Philly, for fear of being lynched?

      Really?

      “Lets also stop thinking that black men were all powerful in the household prior to the civil rights movement.”

      O: I don’t recall ever making any such statement…

      “Black women have been carrying the black family since slavery.”

      O: Which explains why, up until circa 1970 or so, Black marital rates were at all time highs?

      O.

    • http://obsidianraw.bravejournal.com Obsidian

      @Ms. Val:
      “*to no one in particular*

      Actually Jackie Robinson did act a fool in the military when he was told to ride on the back of a military bus and refused. He was arrested and his whole military career was ruined. They darn near threw him out. So, even Jackie Robinson could get indignant in the right circumstance.”

      O: This is a mangled telling of what actually happened and you know it. Jackie Robinson just didn’t “act a fool” outta nowhere – he was reacting to a specific incident in a particular context. As an officer in the Army he was treated with indignity and disrespect and he responded appropriately, and it was for this and other reasons that he was NOT court martialed and sent to Levenworth.

      That’s a far, far cry from what I am talking about the with the truckload of videos I’ve presented, and again you know this. You are arguing In Mala Fide.

      But, what else is new?

      O.

    • http://obsidianraw.bravejournal.com Obsidian

      @Ms. CamilleBlue:
      “ok…so you’re holding up the mirror of YOUR truth mr. super black man…AND???”

      O: LOL. Please calm down. And no, it’s not “my truth” – what I posted from YouTube, at random, isn’t “my truth” – it’s THEE truth. And it is completely understandable as to why you would be bothered by it. That, is precisely my point – we run to nonissues like that which Panama introduced yesterday, BECAUSE it doesn’t make us feel some kind of way. It acts as a way to escape. I don’t want to do that. I want us to confront these issues head on.

      “i have yet to see you post ideas about how to make things better…b/c you just saying “you’re wrong, you’re wrong” every d@mn day does not help anything sans a plan to try to turn things around.”

      O: Wrong. The Power of Shame, works. We need to be using a heck of a lot more of it.

      “why don’t you post some links to some community organizations that you’re leading/involved with that address the issues that you’ve pointed out today? that would be a start.”

      O: What, VSB has suddenly become Solution Central? When did that happen? LOL. The very fact that this topic has gotten you all riled up is making a profound point, Ms. Blue – which is my intent and purpose.

      We need to be talking about the things that actually matter at the end of the day. What some random White dude said on the train is, in the scheme of things, irrelevant and insignificant. But the deluge of videos I posted from YouTube – yea, that matters.

      And you know it.

      O.