On Ciara, And How Some Men Must Really, Really, Really, Really Hate Women » VSB

Dating, Relationships, & Sex, Featured, Pop Culture, Theory & Essay

On Ciara, And How Some Men Must Really, Really, Really, Really Hate Women

David Becker/Getty Images

 

Any automobile produced by Kia. Turkey bacon that’s not Trader Joe’s turkey bacon. Bobby Jindal. The Transformer movie series. Beets. The Bleacher Report. Your opinion on anything if you ever use the phrase “bed wench” unironicially.

These are perhaps the only things I’m less interested in than I am in Ciara’s sex life. Seriously, she could be having sex with someone in my living room right now, and my only concerns would be 1)How the hell did you get in the building? Who let you past the doorman? Wait. Nevermind. I forgot I don’t have a doorman.” and 2) “Can you keep it down? I’m trying to write.

It is interesting, though, that who she has slept with, and who she is apparently definitely, totally, not sleeping with right now, has somehow become a story; a product of an increasingly awkward pissing contest between her ex and her current boo. One of whom is totally playing the “Look how good and moral and wholesome I am, America!” card. While the other is playing the “My name is Future. What did you expect?” card.

Even more interesting than this, though, are the reactions to this never-ending episode of Love and Hip-Hop: Ciara’s Bedroom. Specifically, how invested some people seem to be in this story. And by “some people” I mean “some men.” First came the ridicule of Wilson for 1) practicing abstinence and 2) practicing abstinence with a woman like Ciara. Because Ciara has had sex before. And we all know that women who’ve had sex with more than 1.2753 guys before their 30th birthday are virtually useless for anything other than more fucking. Not commitment. Not consideration. Not kindness. Just more fucking. And, whatever you do, don’t have the audacity to be with one and NOT fuck them.

And then, once Future came out and said “Um yeah. We was definitely fucking” came the glee. From the vitriol dripping from some of the statements, tweets, and status messages I’ve seen, it’s as if they got more pleasure from Ciara getting “called out” for having sex with her ex than if they themselves actually had sex with Ciara. This despite the fact that Ciara, to quote Panama in a Gchat convo yesterday, “aint done shit to nobody but make music nobody listens to.

And that’s the thing. She hasn’t done anything. Except be famous. And enter relationships with equally famous men. That’s it. And it’s hard not to look at this — and other situations like this — and just conclude that there is small but sizable percentage of grown-ass men out there who legitimately dislike women. And not even a sitcomey sexism. But actual, bone-deep bitterness and hate. There’s really no other explanation for the incredulousness exhibited when a guy with options dare not fucking a woman who’s clearly had sex before and the unbridled, kid-like giddiness when she’s “put in her place.”

Of course, this isn’t a recent discovery. But, when this type of hate is discussed, it’s often explained away or dismissed as sheer bitterness. Or, if you want to get more academic, a product of patriarchy. While not discounting the truth behind those answers, they’ve always felt incomplete.

As alluded to earlier, I shared these thoughts with Panama yesterday. His full reply:

Panama: A lot of men hate women. Especially pretty women. I think they feel like these chicks never struggle. They always win. So they’re glad when a chick, a pretty one, doesnt. To them, its a correction in the universe. A small, momentary one. Its stupid. But these niggas like when the pretty women they’ll never get lose like they do.

Panama: But mostly I just think these are niggas who suck. Who hate women because they struggle getting women. I know a dude like that. Liked to commonly refer to women as nothing more than cum dumpsters. And would say he was a commodity because he was an educated black man and women should come to him.

Panama: Basically, these men think like White millennials.

So basically bitterness. Plus a side order of entitlement. And a sense of “Back then, you didn’t want me. Now I’m hot…and you still don’t want me.” This makes sense. But I still feel like there has to be something else there to explain both the hate and the glee, and I’m stumped. Maybe I’ll go listen to Jackie. The answer might be encoded in there.

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Damon Young

Damon Young is the editor-in-chief of VSB. He is also a columnist for GQ.com And he's working on a book of essays to be published by Ecco (HarperCollins). Damon is busy. He lives in Pittsburgh, and he really likes pancakes. Reach him at damon@verysmartbrothas.com. Or don't. Whatever.

  • What did Ciara see in Future? He just seems like the type of ninja who will fugg you into a coma and subsequently make you sleep in the wet spot because that’s how “Ain’t Sh!*” he is. Out of all the options Ciara had in her social circles, she picked up Future and then had a baby with him :-

    • Cleojonz

      Seriously. She must have been having a I need bad boy phase because it seemed like a bad idea RIGHT FROM THE START.

      • Lol, she did used to date 50 cent, and before that Bow Wow. Good Guy, then bad guy; nothing uncommon here.

      • You know what it is? Money don’t buy class and no matter what tax bracket you fall into, if you like a certain caliber of men/women, it carries over into said tax brackets. Ciara liked Ramen Noodle men even though she had a budget for high end truffles.

        • Cleojonz

          I used to say this same thing about Monica. She finally settled down with who seems like a nice guy in Shannon Brown but she made some questionable choices before that.

          • RewindingtonMaximus

            Funny thing is….doesn’t this become the stereotypical case of some women over time? Spent her time running after thugs and hood dudes who never would have spent forever with a woman, and after the track record looks bleek, the kind of men she never wanted before are now all sparkly and shiny.

            I been here before, and I realize these same men, while good natured, can hold a grudge or two due to how the same women they have no gave them no love back in the day.

            • Bushido Brown

              My life story I just try not to hold a grudge tho.

              • RewindingtonMaximus

                It happens, the past is hard to let go of. But it must be done.

          • Wizznilliam

            Shannon Brown is a hood dude too… From my hood actually. He just didn’t let it suck him in and turn him stupid like a lot of other dudes do. He stayed a good dude at heart… So she probably ended up getting the best of both worlds which is why they have been together for so long.

    • RewindingtonMaximus

      Dope boy magic.

      Just because she’s been famous for a minute doesn’t mean she don’t think with her lower half just like everybody else.

      • I can think with my lower half and be smart about it. I’m not out here fugging the local dope boys because I’m hot and heavy. It’s levels to this.

        • RewindingtonMaximus

          Yea nig, but your levels aint nowhere close to hers. People forget that all the time..celebrities experience something totally different from us.

    • Val

      I thought that was an odd pairing too. But, I don’t know Ciara so I’m just going off of her public persona. With that said; if I had been her PR person I would have tried to convince her to take a pass on Future.

      • I couldn’t do PR for anyone besides Beyonce. I don’t have time to try and salvage people’s images who want to toss them down the drain. Why do you even need someone else to tell you that Future is a poor choice to make romantically???

    • DG

      There’s something to be said about dating people in the ‘industry,’ cuz I don’t see someone like Ciara just dating (and having a child by) some random cat who works for UPS and has 4 kids by multiple women (a la’ Future).

    • LadyIbaka

      Love is blind. When you are in love, sometimes you ignore the red flags.

      • tgtaggie

        I guess he dic*mitized her.

        • LadyIbaka

          Soooo agree.

      • JennyJazzhands

        But, don’t you have to see some of the warning signs before you even fall in love? If someone has 4 kids, I think that would come up on the first or second date right?

        • Val

          Maybe even before the first date. Lol

          • JennyJazzhands

            That’s the part that I don’t understand. I can tell if a guy ain’t worth wasting time pretty early. Most times before we even get to dinner and a movie. My mom used to always say, “it’s possible to not put yourself in a position to fall in love with someone you know you shouldn’t.” I think that’s true. I can be legitimately interested in someone. I mean, heart fluttering every time they pass by and everything. But if I see that they’re not of quality, I keep it moving until the flutters die.

        • LadyIbaka

          She seen them and told em, bye Felicia. I still want in on the action.

        • tgtaggie

          Not if he put on her. A woman can do some questionable ish over some good d*ck. just like a ninja will make questionable decisions over some good p***sy

        • Cleojonz

          yeah that would have been a disqualifying factor. I dated a guy I really liked but one day had a lightbulb moment like holdup- if this works out you will be baby momma #3. Nope. And this guy did accumulate a 3rd baby momma and is STILL unmarried.

          • John Shannon

            Now, reverse the gender roles- would you still have that mindset, and would you battle Feminism over it?

            • Cleojonz

              Honestly I would feel the same way, and I was a teenage mother. I feel like you are allowed to make that mistake once. Multiple times, it’s a problem.

      • Count me out for that love foolishness then.

      • jess-s

        when the d is good, but if the d is bad… you can see fine

    • Nick Peters

      She prefers street n!gg@s….she even said the Russell isn’t her preferred type

    • jess-s

      Her choices been questionable… 50 cent, bow wow…. Im surprised she landed Russel. but I’m happy for her.

  • Val

    The world has always hated women. In fact women were still considered the property of their father and then husband until not too long ago. Misogyny is taught in almost every aspect of life. Heck, a lot of women have been trained not to like women.

    On a micro level I really think it’s a matter of confidence. Men who aren’t confident want to dominate women and treat them as inanimate objects who only exist for their pleasure. That’s a lot easier than dealing with women as the complicated humans that we are.

    As for Ciara; both Russell and Future are idiots for discussing what they have or have not done with her. There’s a certain amount of anger and resentment involved in both of their statements.

    • Damon Young

      i didn’t get any anger from wilson. it’s more that he seemed so opportunistic to continue to promote his clean cut (and financially lucrative) image. and how that image elevates him above the rest. basically, he’ll be a great politician when he retires.

      • Val

        In Russell’s case it seems to be more resentment. I feel like he’s almost trying to punish her publicly becasue she’s not a virgin.

        • Cleojonz

          I didn’t initially take it as that. I thought it was more of a statement of where his frame of mind is right now and he is trying to build something with her so why let that get in the way. But then I read about this interview he did with some pastor and he said that God spoke to him and he had to lead her so I don’t know, maybe he thinks he’s trying to save her from herself.

          • RewindingtonMaximus

            That goes to Val’s point of being property. I mean, we all need help in relationships and your partner is supposed to lead where you fall….but is he the beacon of great relationships?

            • Cleojonz

              With a failed marriage under his belt I’d say no. And he’s still so young! I don’t know why he got married in the first place…well… yes I do, but still!

              • RewindingtonMaximus

                That’s exactly the point. You have a culture that pushes you to make the ultimate choice in union with someone you still don’t know very well, just because that was tradition eons ago when people smelled like 30 billion hobos combined.

                I’m all for having a better spiritual relationship, but the hierarchy boggles my mind.

              • Nick Peters

                the marriage wasn’t so much failed…he just wasn’t about to let his ex-wife come up on him and she may have slept with his teammate

                • Cleojonz

                  I hadn’t heard that about his teammate. I just assumed they were too young in the first place and maybe just drifted apart.

                  • Nick Peters

                    its a rumor but it flew around at the time they got divorced

                • She DID sleep with a teammate and he gave her walking papers!

            • Question

              He’s talking about “leading” from a Biblical perspective, not like she’s a lost sheep that needs a leash and some one-word commands to make it through the day.

              • RewindingtonMaximus

                I’m sure that was his intention, just didn’t feel like it when I heard it. If you met the kind of Christians I’ve met with an in late sense of ego, then you’d understand why someone like me sometimes believes those same words may invoke the opposite belief.

          • Val

            Yeah, that interview was problematic in so many ways.

            • Bushido Brown

              That lead her comment is what really got me, like she some kind of lost sheep.

              • Val

                Or worse, a child.

              • Sigma_Since 93

                We’re all in our feelings analyzing words and their context. The Bible does tell men to lead; God chastised Adam, not Eve, for eating the apple because Adam had been charged with not doing so. Women get bent out of shape with the word obey in marriage vows but fail to take into account that the man has the higher charge given he’s supposed to love his wife as Christ loves him.

                I get many don’t find value in the Bible so it’s hard to find context when you may not believe in the premise.

                • JennyJazzhands

                  This is what I took russell to mean in his statement. I didn’t think he was being controlling in the least.

                • Cleojonz

                  Yes in the bible God chastised Adam, but the common interpretation of that passage is that Eve was the evil that led Adam astray, not that Adam failed. So technically this interpretation enforces the idea that men hate women, because although this should have been chalked up to Adam’s failure, it is most commonly looked at as that b*tch Eve led Adam astray and therefore women are the downfall of men.

                  • RewindingtonMaximus

                    Well…it doesn’t help that for many cultures….women are painted as the downfall for men. Materialism, being fast, trying to get chosen, etc…think of all the things you think of if you have a young man in your life dealing with young girls…think of the ways these young girls act today and how that makes you want to protect the young boy.

                    We don’t make it any easier these days, at all.

                  • That interpretation, I don’t think has ever been theologically universal or even wide spread based on what I know of Christianity, and if it was, it would be more a part of Judaism than Christianity, and yet out of all the Abrahamic religions, women have been most highly regarded in Judaism (which isn’t saying much).

                  • PunchDrunkLove

                    It’s simple, the devil went after the one he could get….the woman. There’s no interpretation of hate to enforce. It wasn’t Adam that caused her to fail from grace, it was the devil.

                  • Wild Cougar

                    This is the interpretation and also the mindset for the passages about submitting and obeying. If you read when fresh eyes and dump the man made be doctrine, look at the actual words, you might find that the bible is not as misogynistic as we had been taught. There are other interpretations that are more egalitarian, which is what God intended.

                • always right

                  I agree with you, people are really reaching with this whole lead statement. We don’t know what the discussions were between Russell and Ciara previously. We don’t know if she asked him to take the lead in this area for whatever reason. People are on here on high alert because a man said lead, when that’s all I’m looking for is a man who can lead lol.

                  • JennyJazzhands

                    Wish I could give you and your last sentence a high five.

                  • Yousealiar

                    I couldn’t agree more. In the bigger scheme of things I would take a Russell leading me over a Future leading me any damb day. The only two places Future is going to lead a chick is either A. the maternity ward or B. Peddling Rainbows clothes on Instagram.

                  • LJK

                    She ask him? God TOLD him. Her input is/was not needed.

                • PhlyyPhree

                  I was just about to say this. I think a lot of people, Millenial women especially, sometimes struggle with the whole “lead/submit” thing and I don’t understand it. It’s almost like they’re picking and choosing what parts of the Bible they want to ascribe to when begging for their blessings. Go figure.

                  • LyricMeThis

                    Truth!

                  • Val

                    That picking and choosing thing is epidemic amongst adherents. And not just on this topic.

                    • Sigma_Since 93

                      True but the lead / submit topic is like attempting to walk on egg shells with lead boots.

                    • CrankUpThe_AC

                      True True

                    • Epsilonicus

                      Amen

                • PunchDrunkLove

                  And I’m one that will NOT date a dude that can’t lead. Nooosirreeee. That does not mean I’m under his foot, but it means he’s the lead, the head, and with that I expect and require that to be all encompassing. You can’t lead on some things and on others you wanna hide behind my skirt. Naw, get on out in front and recognize the kind of SO I am for you.

                  It’s not a subservient thing, it’s more of an ebb and flow type thing.

                • Boo Radley

                  Adam was not punished for not “controlling” his wife. He was punished because had been charged with leading the unit AND given dominion over the territory, yet he let someone roll up on his wife with some slick ish and (literally) f up the church’s money, and he had NOT A CLUE. He was sleep on the job, and deserved to be kicked out of paradise.

                  Your statement reads as if Adam was punished and Eve was not, and as if she was too weak to be held accountable for her actions. On the contrary, her punishment was the strongest of all, because he cursed not only her, but every generation that followed with contractions and “lady time” pains. To put a point on it, he cursed her fruit. <—–see what he did there?

                • cancergirl08

                  This is a great explanation, sir :)

          • miss t-lee

            “I thought it was more of a statement of where his frame of mind is right now and he is trying to build something with her so why let that get in the way”

            This is how I read it.

            • Val

              And if he thinks he needs to lead her then does he really respect her? That’s my question and also why I think his comment was disrespectful to say the least.

              • miss t-lee

                IDK–I don’t take issue with the “leading” part. Maybe that’s how the relationship goes.

                • Val

                  Interesting.

              • Boo Radley

                Christian faith dictates that the man lead the household…doesn’t make his statement come off any less douche-y, though.

          • Doesn’t she do lap dances at her shows while he tweets in approval? :-/

          • Asiyah

            A man always wants to save a woman just so he can be the only one who breaks her down again.

        • Sigma_Since 93

          But he did the same thing with his former wife. To me this is a non issue. Just because we were not checking for Russell when he was at NC State of a mid level draft pick doesn’t mean hes changed up.

          • Val

            If that’s true then that really proves my point. It seems like he has issues with women being chexual. As well as control issues.

            • He is one of those “Super Christians” which leads me to believe that he’s probably rather controlling in his relationships and that he probably has a weak stroke.

              • Sigma_Since 93

                So if you told dude that he wasn’t going to get any because of religious beliefs, does that mean you are controlling and have a weak stroke? I’d rather for you to be up front than for me to have unintended blue balls

                • I find that Christian women intent on being abstinent aren’t doing so to control the relationship, as they see being a woman means they must be subservient in the relationship.

              • RewindingtonMaximus
              • LadyIbaka

                Dying @weak stroke!!

              • Yousealiar

                A man who is a control freak indeed has a weak stroke along with a potpourri of other issues. He takes pleasure bragging on his sexual prowess and/or peen size. He is also jealous and insecure. He needs constant validation and requires a woman to stroke his egos constantly. He also needs a woman who will love him more than he actually loves himself.

                • LadyIbaka

                  Shaaaade!! Loving it.

                • Drew

                  Minus the bragging about sexual prowess and/or peen size, you could easily run the remainder of your comment as it pertains to most women. Certainly not an indictment, but many women ARE jealous and insecure; they do need constant validation and their egos stroked (hence; the notion of constantly validating love through action and compliments); and there’s no shortage of women — even very strong ones — who are weak and depend on a man’s love to survive. Simply stating…

            • RewindingtonMaximus

              Truthfully many religiously devout people have a problem with anyone who has secks not given the “ok” by the Good Book.

              So he’s no different. He’s just another sheep following blindly.

              If anything, I’m more perturbed because he’s taking care of another man’s child while being in a pissing contest with him.

              • Val

                I don’t have a problem with him doing what he feels his religion tells him but why drag Ciara into it.

                • RewindingtonMaximus

                  Because that’s a sure fire why to prove to his religion that he’s claimed a victory.

              • People have s3x in the church all the time, h3ll there are people who rely on church for sidepieces. What you’re not supposed to do is be proud or blatant about it.

                • RewindingtonMaximus

                  Except when your a pastor that needs to ahem…confess.

            • Nick Peters

              He is SuperDuperExtraReligous

              • Val

                He’s definitely extra.

                • Sigma_Since 93

                  If this was Tim T, would we be having the same discussion?

                  • Nick Peters

                    Tebow would say the same thing….sp I would say yes

                    • Sigma_Since 93

                      I don’t think so; Tim has a bigger faith platform than Russell. It would be a given in our minds if Tim stated dating Rihanna that there would be no chex. We wouldn’t say Tim’s trying to control her.

                    • Val

                      If he actually said he was leading her as Russell did then yes, we would be saying the same thing about him.

                    • Sigma_Since 93

                      see comment about people being in their feelings about words.

                    • Val

                      Words matter.

                    • Epsilonicus

                      I get the feeling Rihanna would take Tebow’s cookies

                    • tgtaggie

                      RiRi would probably currupt Tebow.

                    • True

                    • LJK

                      Ri would be standing buck nekkid at his hotel door talking about Bish betta have my cookies.

                  • Val

                    Um, yes. Why wouldn’t we? In fact I think folks would be going harder at Tebow.

                  • John Shannon

                    THANKS!!!!! I seriously doubt folks would be ripping Tebow

          • I mean look, if you’re going by the bible, s3x outside of marriage = fornication. So if you’ve already gone down that path, public declarations of abstinence, is really nothing more than making a political declaration or attention whoring.

        • LadyIbaka

          Because he is a virgin?!?! Lawd!

          • tgtaggie

            Russ been married before. And Cici has a kid.

        • MysteryMeat

          Thats what I got from it and I am not here for it at all. Pisses me off a bit actually. Kinda like he’s saying “Yeah yall, I know,she a hoe, but frfr I aint smashin right now. I’m just trying to clean her up and show her that her worldly ways are not the way to go. Charity work dawg,Charity”

          Grrr…

          And Im not even a Ciara fan like that. I just didnt like the gesture. Thats so embarrasing on her part. Like, Yall aint Britney and Justin circa 99 Yall grown.

          No sir,I dont like it

        • Question

          Where are you getting this from??

      • Betty

        But Russells words came from an interview with a pastor talking about his lifw. It wasn’t an ESPN clip. I think he was sincere in talking about his values. Future is the one who went on some petty ish.

        • I disagree, even among Christians your s3x life is supposed to remain quiet. What Russell did, in the tradition of American Evangelicals, is use his private life to make a political statement; Future was just being a goofy and childish rapper. What Russell did in my opinion is far worse, because he’s pretty much put her on the spot, where she has to talk about and defend things she probably doesn’t want to.

          • Sigma_Since 93

            If it was Ciarra, Meghan Good, Jessica Simpson, the Pastor’s daughter, Cee Cee Winans who made the same comment in an interview to a pastor would we feel the same way if BAE had a chexual history? I would like to believe that they had this discussion before deciding to boo up in these pictures.

            • A lot of guys I initially talked to, who were clowning Russell as a simp, were clowning him, because they thought that it was Ciara’s idea, it appears that it was actually his idea. In general, I think people who publicly put out their s3x lives are jerks, men or women, especially, when they’re famous. I call it reverse-trolling: basically putting out things that don’t need to be put out there, and then getting upset when the haters come out and feast on it like vultures.

          • JennyJazzhands

            Really? I’ve never experienced this. As a Christian, s3x is talked about a lot. Single people talk about abstinence and those that are struggling with sexual relationships and married people talk about s3x.

            • My experience is you talk about those with other Christians, and you don’t go into details. Yes, you might talk about struggles and dealing with temptation, but unless you’re one of these modern BDSM Christians (http://www.seekers.org.uk/christian%20BDSM.html) or something, you really don’t go into detail into what actually goes on in the s3x life, especially publicly where non-believers can hear as well.

              • JennyJazzhands

                Yes, but to me, saying that you’re abstinent in your current relationship isn’t a detail. I talk about my abstinence all the time with believers and non. That’s why I’m not seeing what was so negative about Russells response.

                • Sigma_Since 93

                  Simple. You are a woman. In certain crowds, your abstinence is viewed as power. For one group, it’s the power to remain faithful to God’s word. In other groups, you are choosing if and when you give up the cookie.

                  • Val

                    Nooooooo! Please don’t say cookie!

                    • Sigma_Since 93

                      It’s the only thing I could think of to keep me out of moderation. lol

                    • Boo Radley

                      see: love pocket; home base; snootch…there are alternatives

                    • AlwaysCC

                      pocketbook…

                  • cancergirl08

                    It really is a choice. I don’t like it when people try to put abstainers, myself included, on this pedestal. It doesn’t make me or any other abstainer any better than those who don’t. It won’t make my relationship better or worse…..it’s simply a matter of pleasing God in that area. I’m a worrier, so you can be certain I’m not pleasing God in the faith and peace categories all the time, lol.

                • I think it’s a matter of context.

                  If you watched the ESPYs last night, one of the first jokes that was made the whole night was about Russell Wilson throwing the football at the Superbowl in February. The point is that, when things are publicly in the media, they fall out of your control. This is why all these celebrities have to have PR agents and the Olivia Popes of the world make the money they do. If you’re famous if you put it out there, you’re providing grounds for vultures to pounce, and by putting out that he was abstaining from s3x, with a woman, who he basically says is a 15 on a scale of 1-10…what else could you expect to happen, with simply twitter alone?

                  • JennyJazzhands

                    I see what you mean. I have been asked on a panel if I was famous would I disclose that I’m abstinent to the public the way that gay people come out. I, honestly, could not answer that question for the reason you stated. People make fun of me being abstinent in real life so Idk if I would willingly put myself under that microscope. However, I wouldn’t want to hide it either and would have to be honest if someone asked. And I think russell was asked by a fan, I think.

                    • I think famous people have the right to say no, and it doesn’t affect them, kind of like the “Open-relationship with the Smiths”, I feel, the people who choose to put themselves out publicly, want to be heroes of some sort, or view their actions, as somewhat of a political cause…it’s only a problem when they don’t admit it.

                    • Sigma_Since 93

                      I get what you’re saying but what happened to having faith and conviction? Not being ashamed of your moral code is becoming like hiding the heavyset girl / guy you’re dating. Given that the audience was Christan based, I think Russell was comfortable giving the interview. Yes twitter got a hold of it but the notion that twitter may get ahold of it should not stop someone from expressing their viewpoint.

                    • JennyJazzhands

                      I definitely agree. That’s what I was getting at toward the end of the last post. I would never lie about my faith or abstinence so it would eventually be discussed. I probably wouldn’t just make a random announcement on YouTube in the manner that some celebs choose to come out. But yes, in the reference that this came up with russell I think he did and said the right thing and don’t ser myself doing or saying different.

                    • I think you’re mixing faith and conviction vs. the millennial trend of being obligated to give an opinion on every singular issue. I’m perfectly fine with him putting it out there, but he’s in a career, where he should be prepared to deal with the consequences of putting his life out there like that. And when you’re on video, and you are famous, more times than not, what you do is going to be put out there.

                    • Reemo

                      I’m tired of this millennial slander for the record

                    • Lol, it’s light, trust me…I say far worse stuff about the baby boomers, they’re just too old to do anything about it.

              • Boo Radley

                While I recognize the censorship you’re referring to, it doesn’t apply to Christianity as a whole, nor should this tendency to not “air our laundry” in front of “non-believers.” Christ was inclusive, and his followers SHOULD be, as well.

                • Has little to do with censorship, as much as it doesn’t really serve any particular goal.

                  I do not see how air out laundry equates to spreading the good news that Christ is risen. Furthermore, restrictions and the struggles of s3x aren’t unique to the Abrahamic Religions either. It’s also good to remember that a third of the world’s population identifies as Christians; if there’s any religion where people who are non-believers are going to have some knowledge about it, it’s most likely going to be Christianity.

                  • Boo Radley

                    As a Christian, I find value in being able to discuss real life issues with my fellow congregants. The intelligent brain seeks to apply what it has learned to every day situations. It’s dangerous to keep perpetuating a false dichotomy of “real life” versus “the gospel.” If we are Christians, we have to be able to apply the gospel to our everyday lives (including S3X.) If we cannot, then what exactly are we gathering for every Sunday morning?

                    This religious exclusivity so many churches practice is why millennials are fleeing the church by the truckload. Nobody wants to give up their lazy Sunday to help perpetuate another two thousand years of moral snobbery and hypocrisy.

                    • This has mostly to do with the Evangelical route of Christianity in America. Evangelicalism is rooted in the appeal to passion and emotion over rationality and reason, thus charisma > theology (most black preachers.) Since the church has increasingly abandoned a rational and logical basis for Christianity, it by default has increasingly relied on faith and belief (above reason), to keep strong ties within.

                      This can survive among people who are satisfied with it, but in an era where there is free flow of information, it becomes a lot more difficult to keep Christians, when things such as history, scandal, contradictions etc, can easily be exposed to young people and adults. When facts aren’t combatted by facts, but rather belief and faith, belief and faith weakens; people can only abandon the proof of their senses for so long, before they turn against their faith. This is why the survival of the Christian Church and it’s ability to gain more followers, is increasingly dependent on providing a “Holy experience”; this is why churches are designed, to take much advantage of the power of sound and reverberation within churches, something that they inherited from the Catholics who understood the power of the religious experience as the root of their power (google Sistine Chapel).

                      I have two parents who are pastors, I lead the youth ministry in my church for over a decade. People are leaving church because the defense against contradiction and hypocrisy with faith and obedience simply doesn’t work, especially when alternatives are available. It doesn’t work in child rearing and it doesn’t work in Religion either.

                    • Boo Radley

                      I have come to the point where I mentally strip all that “extra” away. I’ve reduced my definition to what it should be in essence – I try to follow and emulate the teachings Christ (the man) the way Buddhists try to emulate Buddha.

                      It was quite a relief to free myself from the extraneous, and ironically, my faith in Christ (the deity) has been strengthened. I still go to church, but I look at it as what it is, an opportunity to fellowship with like-minded people. It’s a social event, not the cornerstone of my faith.

              • TLati
              • TLati

                Say wha…

            • Sigma_Since 93

              Yup. The married folks go upstairs and the single folks go downstairs during the chex discussions.

              • RewindingtonMaximus

                Usually I took it that married folks are miserable and trying to keep their sanity, while single folks are scared and confused.

                • Sigma_Since 93

                  Nah. Married folks, yourself included, religious and non-religious are trying to keep things on and poppin.

                  • AlwaysCC

                    i attended a workshop/group discussion led by my former pastor and his wife and chex ended up being the main topic lol it was just a general “let’s keep our marriages together” type of workshop

                  • RewindingtonMaximus

                    True but I won’t like Sig, people’s opinions vary so often about marriage, that I really did think it was just meant to be a life of misery.

              • JennyJazzhands

                I’ve definitely seen and been a part of joint discussions between married and single people. I think single people have another separate discussion because we have a whole other set of issues than married people do.

        • tgtaggie

          That sh*t was petty. Like he was trying to say she gave it up on the first date lol

          • Yousealiar

            It was. And the added “we prayed after I hit it”…really?

            • RewindingtonMaximus

              Salt on the wound.

        • Val

          I think both were being petty since someone else, Ciara, was going to be implicated by both. The caring thing would have been for Russell to have not commented.

        • Amen!

      • GrimyLittlePimp

        It wasn’t angry but it was patronizing, paternalistic and self-serving. “God told me to lead her…” so I better let the rest of the world know how strong of a leader I am! No one will ever remember that Golden Tate thing after I publicly re-virginize Ciara!

        • S.B. Real

          ^^^This comment here is the best. And shout-out to your Pete Campbell/Mad Men reference.

          • CamCamtheGreat

            Lane Pryce had them hands!

            • S.B. Real

              I wish he would have lived, he would have been a G. He let Don and the other bigwigs punk him.

              • CamCamtheGreat

                He didn’t let anyone punk him. What he did was commit serious fraud and Don gave him a way out that allowed him to preserve his dignity and his employability. He decided to take a different route.

                • S.B. Real

                  Hmmm…yeah you’re right. I had to revisit that one. I do recall the fraud. I love that people can get me to check out past scenes. That was a great show. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=s30xeVSVrls

                  • CamCamtheGreat

                    Mad Men was an AMAZING show! A character-driven masterpiece of modern television. I always catch things in the re-watch.

          • GrimyLittlePimp

            Thank you! Finally someone understands me <3

            • S.B. Real

              For sure. I loved that show. These days, I’m addicted to Power.

              • GrimyLittlePimp

                I want to be down so bad but I broke up with pay channels a few years ago. Is it good? Will it make me ignore the fact that I’m supporting 50 Cent because it’s that good?

                • S.B. Real

                  Hi! Yes, it is. I was apprehensive since I don’t really rock with 50. He’s only in a few episodes. The show is so well plotted and well acted, that it’s worth it. And you can get Starz for $10 online w/o having to get a full cable package. Even 50 said he doesn’t care if ppl get Starz then cancel after he show is over.

    • This has been my issue from jump, why did Russell feel compelled to speak on the chex that is/isn’t going on in their relationship? That ain’t nobody’s business but you and your lady’s.

      • Cleojonz

        I said that in my comment that’s stuck in motivation. It was way out of pocket that he brought it up at all. Otherwise no one would have even cared.

      • That was my issue considering he never says anything of note but he puts his bedroom life or lack there off out there.

        • I just want to know the context of the conversation which led up to it all. That just seems rude to me to volunteer that kind of information.

          • He was speaking at a church forum or something and one of the people in the audience asked him.

            • I can’t stand the way Christianity (and other religions) demonizes chex within and outside marriage.

              • Like I said the other day it’s in place largely to police women. The words “You’ll feel differently about it when you have son” have seldom been uttered in regards to hetros&xual male behavior.

                • Why is women having chex such a bad thing across all cultures?!

                  • esa

                    agency = power

                  • F*ck boys have existed as long as the Earth has, AP.

                  • miss t-lee

                    Because we’re not supposed to enjoy it, we’re only supposed to carry the babies.

                    • RewindingtonMaximus

                      Yup. You’re just supposed to create, not enjoy it.

                      That’s the saddest kind of logic.

                    • miss t-lee

                      Indeed.

                  • Cleojonz

                    Please, we can’t have s*x without purpose. Look how they roasted that girl from the Bachelorette.

                  • Val

                    It’s about control.

                  • Epsilonicus

                    Anthropologically, to control and manage how to determine paternity so that property rights and inheritance can be determined.

                    Sociologically, misogyny

                  • NKORigible

                    Because, Religion

                  • Wild Cougar

                    Because our bodies, our femininity our wombs are the greatest power on earth. Men resent us for it. If we dared enjoy this power, we’d know what our true position was. Men can’t have that. They need to own the power in order to be OK with it existing.

              • Kodoku

                What is “chex”?

                • Sigma_Since 93

                  replace the ch with a s

                  • Kodoku

                    Oh, thanks, but why the ch? I thought neologisms were used to shorten words, not enlarge them. lol

                    • Sigma_Since 93

                      You end up in moderation

                    • Kodoku

                      Ah ok, gotcha. That took me longer to process than it should have.

                    • cakes_and_pies

                      VSB needs a definitive vocabulary list. I’ve been here over a year and I still have no idea what some of the colloquial terms are.

                    • Speck of Dust

                      That’s definitely not a bad idea. But then again, I don’t understand why Disqus would ban a word like “seks”… or “chex”. I wonder who finds it offensive, because I definitely don’t.

                    • Drew

                      i.e., digital purgatory

          • RewindingtonMaximus

            He loves Jesus. His girl dances like she loves Satan.

            I can only guess about the one place where this topic can cause an issue among a certain group of people

            • Far right Christians disgust me with their hypocrisy. I saw sooooo many people condemning Caitlyn Jenner for coming out as a woman and the majority of the people saying how unnatural and against God it was, had kids who were produced outside of marriage.

              • RewindingtonMaximus

                Of course. I thought the same thing when same secks marriage was legalized. All the things they claiming are sins, and their entire lives are built off sinning for 6 3/4 of a day, since they pray to God for 4 hours on Sunday

              • Nick Peters

                That is Human Nature to manipulate the rules of the game to provide you with the most freedom possible and to make you the most comfortable

      • Wizznilliam

        Probably because he is out there as being super Christians.. I know there are a couple YouTube videos of him talking about his faith… It probably came up in a question or something..

        • John Shannon

          So Tim Tebow is aight but Russell is a lame and foul?? Did I miss something??

          • Wizznilliam

            To me??.. No. I think he is fine.. Admirable even, if he is actually living the life he preaches.. I was just answering why he might of brought it up in the first place.

    • PunchDrunkLove

      “On a micro level I really think it’s a matter of confidence. Men who aren’t confident want to dominate women and treat them as inanimate objects who only exist for their pleasure. That’s a lot easier than dealing with women as the complicated humans that we are.”

      Agreed. And if it’s all the same to some “less than” dude, it’s much easier to to treat women less than, in order to gain his comeuppance/confidence.

      • RewindingtonMaximus

        Yea, Val has a major point here. But truthfully, that is the art of humanity…if we can’t beat it, fuck it, or manipulate it, we will destroy it. Who better than your exact opposite?

      • Nick Peters

        All the smart people in the world are looking to get over on somebody

        • PunchDrunkLove

          And all dummies get taken.

    • …It’s a matter of confidence and dealing with men who have mama and abandonment issues. I know nothing of this mans family but its clear – this relationship issues with her (mom). I’ve seen and witnessed this for myself.

      But, neither one should be publicly speaking on her va jay-jay.

    • cancergirl08

      “Heck, a lot of women have been trained not to like women.”

      Yes, and this is even sadder to me than the men who don’t like women.

    • AnnelliDAREAL

      You are wrong about Wilson…… He’s said nothing but great things about Ciara. You are correct about Future though – he’s simply a bitter, envious Black male, who don’t want to see Ciara do better.

  • Cleojonz

    Okay is the word s*x and unapproved word on Disqus because I swear I didn’t even cuss in my post below.

    • JennyJazzhands

      I think so, I said it and my comment is still in jail.

  • My question though, and this is more an overarching view of political issues in America, what else can you expect from identity politics, but trivial fights over identity?

  • Betty

    I really need to stalk Panama more. He sounds awesome to ghat with.

  • RewindingtonMaximus

    I wonder if there will ever be a point where:

    a) being religiously devout isn’t something you have to adamantly show off to the world

    b) men will see that comparing yourself to another man due to faults isn’t helpful

    c) the history of a woman, while important, doesn’t hurt the integrity of her future if people will move out the way and let her live

    d) that celebrities need to stop making their lives into cash deposits because the things that the general public keeps talking about is beyond sad at this rate.

    • Cleojonz

      I don’t see them working long term because of your #1. At some point he is no longer going to be able to reconcile his religious views with her clearly sexual image. It shouldn’t matter, but it will. Unless she completely reworks her entire persona and takes that out of the equation.

      • RewindingtonMaximus

        That’s the problem i have with imagery. Your relationship is supposed to define what kind of person you believe you are, and the foundation you can build. When you make it more important to show people what you think you can do, rather than what you can actually do, everything loses focus from there.

        She can’t help be who she is, and even if she changes, she’s still got her past, Its not going anywhere. Its like Megan Good, I don’t care how long she remains with her man, SHE IS STILL going to be viewed as the same Megan Good from before that everyone was feenin to get at. So at some point, the charades have to stop and you either love what you have or live in the past.

        • PunchDrunkLove

          So, people can’t change? And who are we changing for? Folks and what they say or a better self?

          • Nick Peters

            that baby and Future aren’t going anywhere

            • PunchDrunkLove

              So? What does that have to do with turning over a new leaf? Changing? I’m not saying she’s sincere or no. I’m not saying she’s changing. I’m commenting on someone saying, folks will always be their past. Everybody can change. It’s on you if they make the change and you’re stuck on who they used to be.

              • RewindingtonMaximus

                True indeed. But that’s usually your first test to prove you actually mean what you say when you’re changing. You put it out there in the world, and the people closest to you are the first to challenge that notion. And if you cave in, they win. You’re not changing at all. So the goal is always to move forward, regardless of the shenanigans.

                I never said Ciara won’t make it. She got this far already. But now she’s being challenged to prove how far she wants to go.

                • PunchDrunkLove

                  And that’s the thing…that’s what I’m saying. A person changing don’t have to be tested by anyone. There is nothing to prove but to yourself. I, for one don’t, won’t and ain’t answering to people. They have the same frailties as me. So, why would I be put on the front page in proving something I don’t owe? So, a person wants to change, make strides and take the steps, don’t look to the left or right. You don’t owe the next person a dang thing.

                  • RewindingtonMaximus

                    You don’t but that doesn’t mean people don’t struggle with that issue. We all are tested no matter what, but the goal is to not falter in the face of that test, and make sure no one tells you where your place is but you. But coming to that realization, like any other life changing realization, takes time, maturity, and understanding.

                    • PunchDrunkLove

                      True.

              • Nick Peters

                She can change all she wants too…but the baby and Future will be a part of her life (and in turn his life) for the next 18 years

                • PunchDrunkLove

                  And again…..SO? What does that have to do with changing? I have a kid by someone I’m not with. What’s your point?

          • RewindingtonMaximus

            People always change. But there always people petty enough to send out a reminder that the change doesn’t mean anything.

            That’s always going to be a personal struggle for all people, to move forward from the past despite how often people try to drag you back.

            • PunchDrunkLove

              “But there always people petty enough to send out a reminder that the change doesn’t mean anything.”

              This right here….what happens to a person is what they allow. People and their pettiness has nothing to do with getting better. If folks wanna hold on to that, that’s their issue. Folks can’t drag you back unless you allow it.

              This is why I stay off Twitter and other social sites. Everything nowadays is about what other folks think. Bump folks and their opinions.

              • RewindingtonMaximus

                Yea but that’s your realization. Everybody else has to figure that out for themselves.

      • LyricMeThis

        See Devon Franklin and Meagan Good. Who knows how it will end up though.

        • Nick Peters

          she has taken a 180 for Christianity

          • Cleojonz

            Exactly. Her image changed drastically. I believe they practiced a period of abstinence leading up to the wedding too.

          • RewindingtonMaximus

            Well her bewb & body pics from last year’s The Fappening (the Iphone hacking scandle) disagree but aye, once the ring is on, the freak is out.

            • Nick Peters

              that were for her husband?

              • RewindingtonMaximus

                Doesn’t matter. They are now public property. So all sorts of stereotypes and beliefs have been formed.

                The world doesn’t stop being petty just because you stepped your game up.

                • Nick Peters

                  It does matter…..they were private pictures for her husband

                  • RewindingtonMaximus

                    I’m not disagreeing NIck, but that doesn’t stop people from throwing stones. They are fine, so hopefully outside opinions won’t damage anything.

        • tgtaggie

          I guess it wrk out pretty good for them.lol. This was taken during that iCloud leak

      • JennyJazzhands

        I don’t think they’ll work unless Ciara shares the same belief system. I’ve never heard her speak about being a Christian or abstinent before but she may have always believed and just fallen off. I recall her saying she was abstinent when she was with bow wow, but that’s what every single young pop star is forced to say until they become an adult.

        • Kema

          I saw an interview where Future said Ciara asked him to pray with her after chex. So there’s that. lol!

          • JennyJazzhands

            I thought he was being facetious.

            • Kema

              I thought so too until he said “I never had someone ask me to pray with them”. Who knows though.

  • miss t-lee

    Champie, can my comment get free, mayne? :)

    Oh, and that “bed wench” kat that dudes seem to love? *eyeroll*

    • Who is the “bed wench” kat?

      • Soula Powa

        I don’t know, but f*ck that guy.

        • miss t-lee

          Indeed.

        • The racial connotations alone are enough to make me say “f*ck that guy!”

          • Bushido Brown

            I have never heard of him, I’m assuming that’s a good thing.

      • miss t-lee

        I don’t even wanna whisper his name because his trolls will come out I’m sure…lol

        • Have I heard of him or is he some twitter philosopher?

          • Baemie St. Patrick

            I’m bout life. Tariq Nasheed.

            • Oh, that ******f***er!

            • Who is he?

              • miss t-lee

                Get your google on girl.
                Shorter: A real live POS.

              • Baemie St. Patrick

                he is a former mack/pick up artist turned father to the Hotep population. He is responsible for bringing us Hidden Colors, thus responsible for the surge of black men who are suddenly “enlightened” and now take it upon themselves to pick apart why the black community is failing and it starts with the black woman.

            • miss t-lee

              I SEE!

            • Soula Powa

              Oh yeah. Definitely, f*ck that guy. In fact, calling him a guy gives him too much credit. SMH.

              • miss t-lee

                Way too much.
                WAY.

          • miss t-lee

            You’ve heard of him Wu.
            We all have, unfortunately.

  • bigheadbaby

    I thought both men should have shut their traps and politely sidestepped the question. Couldn’t miss an opportunity to beat their chest, though Wilson’s was a more holy chest thump, but was still a chest thump. Both were using Ciara to burnish their images, nevermind that they shouldn’t even have been speaking about what they were or were not doing with her in bed in the first place.

    • miss t-lee

      All of this here.

  • Tristan

    Future coming out and saying they were having secks like….yall have a kid. We know where babies come from Nayvadius

    • RewindingtonMaximus

      He’s a strip club rapper. He’s gonna reiterate that point no matter what.

      • tgtaggie

        Dude has no redeemable qualities just like Willie Norwood Jr.

        • LadyIbaka

          Yes he do. His locks are on point. Redemption at the locks!!
          Sup T!!! :))

          • Cleojonz

            and his complexion. But that’s about all!

            • LadyIbaka

              I like burnt ebony, so his complexion has me at bye.

            • RewindingtonMaximus

              lmao see that’s my point..two good things about him already.

        • Baemie St. Patrick

          No Ray J slander EVER.

        • RewindingtonMaximus

          Buahahaha @ Ray J shade.

          You may be right, but don’t you think for a second he won’t make more records to make chicks lose their religion at the club, that’s all the redemption that’s required

        • ThaREALDook

          Ray j!! Lol

      • TLati

        You read that GQ article, huh?

        • RewindingtonMaximus

          I saw the documentary on their website. Fascinating stuff.

          • TLati

            Titillating I’m sure. :op Lol

            • RewindingtonMaximus

              Titi…..I see what you did there.

    • Leigh

      THIS!!!
      With his Government name too!! I likey very much!

    • Tristan

      Best comment ever biiiiiiih

      • Val

        Wait….huh?

        • Tristan

          On the homepage lol

      • Yousealiar

        Wow, Huny is on it today. *waves* Hi Huny!

      • miss t-lee

        Well, sh*t.

      • Why his mama have to name him that???

        • Baemie St. Patrick

          and why did Ciara name the baby Future?!

          • Stupidity.

          • Val

            Lol She did? I didn’t even know that.

          • Tristan

            Because Nayvadius sounds like an antidepressant

            • mzpw

              Oh WOW….*falls out laughing*….see, This is what happens when you’re studying for clinicals and get distracted. I better not get those questions relating to pharmacy wring because of a false diagnosis of Nayvadius…..

          • Speck of Dust

            She should have gone like “Past”, “Present” and then the last kid “Future”. That would have made more sense lol

    • s3rp3nt

      “Don’t she have a baby wi’ him? (sucks teeth) Oh, you just needed something to say…”

    • laddibugg

      I had no idea that was his real name.

  • Freebird

    I agree. I think folks are blowing their intentions a bit out of proportion. And I didn’t see anything wrong in what Wilson did.

    • JennyJazzhands

      I’m feeling a little lost in these comments. Russell, trying to do something nice, is getting more shade than future. I’m surprised.

      • Freebird

        I’m not sure of what his intentions were and I don’t know much about the back story. Maybe there is something out there that says she did not like what Wilson did. But maybe she approved. It is 2015 and they may have talked about this. Maybe it’s what she wants for her own advancement.

        • LadyIbaka

          *rolls eyes* @ advancement opportunities brought on by the fact they haven’t yet phakked….Lawd!

      • miss t-lee

        I’m not even sure if it’s something nice. The nice thing would have been to keep your private life private.
        I don’t see anything wrong with abstinence. As a Christian I know that’s the correct way to do things in accordance with his word. However, with him, it just comes off as disingenuous. In the grand scheme of things it’s really between you and the man upstairs anyway, so why are we even privy?

      • LadyIbaka

        What niceness?!?! By talking about their non existent chez life. He should shut up.

        • JennyJazzhands

          The fact that he wants to get to know her and not just hop in bed.

    • LyricMeThis

      I agree as well. He was asked a question and he answered it. It’s not like he was volunteering this info out of nowhere. People freely express their sexuality in many forums without ridicule but Wilson is getting roasted for doing the same just because he is talking about abstinence.

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