i have an strange tendency to assume that people i’ve met who i’m not physically or sexually attracted to are attracted to me, and this can be somewhat disconcerting. but, oddly, this feeling usually only applies to gay black men and ugly white women. you can imagine how difficult this makes shopping at the gap for me.
as weird as this bit of aggressively unambitious egomania might seem, i’ve reluctantly come to realize that it does make me somewhat homophobic. i mean, i’m not going to be joining T.O.K. to remix “chi-chi man” anytime soon, but the fact that i’d be a tad bit unnerved by a hooper x doppelganger showing me slacks means that i’m not quite the bastion of open-mindedness and objectivity i thought i was.
yet despite all of this, i take full advantage of the freedom my well-earned “well, he makes tongue-in-cheek jokes about everybody and everything. he’s really cool and compassionate though so don’t take it seriously” pretense gives me to make off-color jokes, asides, and analogies about homosexual men
anyway, thinking about all of this helps me to understand why so many “enlightened” sistas are loathe to admit that they’re just as (if not more) homophobic than the typical brotha is assumed to be.
because their homophobia usually isn’t as outwardly vehement as a cat reciting cam’ron lyrics or calling kanye a “faggot”, it’s somewhat easy for them to ignore the cognitive dissonance that occurs when professing the need for a “gay bff” while simultaneously using gay black men as an easy scapegoat for rising HIV infection rates. this thought process also leads them to dismiss the idea that a man telling his son to “stop being a sissy” and a woman refusing to date a man who they heard might have been a sissy in 1995 come from the exact same place.
plus, they realize that an educated person actually admitting that they still harbor a bit of uneasiness about the idea of a gay black man in 2010 blatantly contradicts the open-mindedness that most socially and politically savvy sistas pride themselves on, so they continue to join “i hate prop 8″ groups on facebook while opening another firefox window to order j.l. king’s most recent hysterical missive in bulk.
mind you, i’m not trying to start another round of the “more” race. i could care less about who’s “more” homophobic between us (a “typical” black man) and them (a “typical” black woman), and i could give two shits about who’s is going to reach the finish line first.
but, i will say that i know that we definitely aint alone on the track, even if they still won’t admit that they’ve been running too.
—the champ
I cnt really muster up any written words that say, “I agree with you”, so I nod my head concurringly.
“I cnt really muster up any written words that say, “I agree with you””
lol, you just did. nothing says “i agree with you” better than “i agree with you”
Yeah but I was referring to something catchy, flavorful. Im not the George Orwell type, simplicity just cant due.
Second of all I cant make any anit-gay sentiments, because gay black men are like body snatchers, they walk among us.
I won’t be denying myself any employment opportunities in the future.
lol at the body snatcher comment. Something about it made spit out a small amount of coffee.
Well its mutual. As long as they dont have “ninja stars”. LMAO
would this stars be shaped like a pair of balls?
(sorry. couldnt resist the urge to add some 4th grade gay humor)
Eh. Racism is out of style and so is homophobia. Racists can just join the Tea Baggers (snicker), mention literacy tests for voting, and casually refer to non-whites as ‘those people’ and ‘you people’. Nobody’s cleaver enough to come up with another thing to use to discriminate against gays. Unless folks start hating on the stereotypes. Can you imagine people protesting against neatly dressed men and funny short haired women? It would be too hard to limit those groups so that they exclude heteros.
Nobody’s cleaver enough to come up with another thing to use to discriminate against gays.
i think they’ll start going after apple products and american apparel next
the cognitive dissonance that occurs when professing the need for a “gay bff” while simultaneously using gay black men as an easy scapegoat for rising HIV infection rates. this thought process also leads them to dismiss the idea that a man telling his son to “stop being a sissy” and a woman refusing to date a man who they heard might have been a sissy in 1995 come from the exact same place.
Yes and amen to that whole paragraph. I think my biggest peeve with homophobia is the need to dehumanize individuals. Gay people are no longer the sum of their parts; no, instead they are distilled down into that one little thing, their sexuality. Even the so called positives labels, i.e. all gay men are fabulous decorators/stylists/hair dressers, sashaying fools is just as bad as the other hateful ish. It’d be nice if everyone embraced the LGBT community, sang Kumbaya and let them have the right to pursue their path of own path of happiness, but I’m not that naive. I’ll settle for people doling out the judgment on a case by case basis. I’m all good on you not liking me, but hate me because you’ve gotten to know me and realize an a gigantic a**hole, not because you see me out with my girlfriend and pigeon hole me in your little boxes. Anyway, I don’t think you should be that concerned that you are uncomfortable around the hopper X doppelganger; at least you recognize it. Maybe, sometime down the road you’ll strike up a conversation with the dude, making a conscious effort to overcome the urge to run, and you’ll realize he’s not even remotely interested in you. Seriously, not even a little. It’s not like you start grinding on every girl you meet? I hope not anyway. We all have our prejudices, sadly.
And Prop 8…..seriously, California massive effing fail. Liberal state my tushie. Prop 8 and the misogyny laws, the similarities are striking. Why can’t we just love who we love?
I meant Prop 8 and miscegenation laws, forgive my sleep addled brain.
…when you wrote misogyny laws, my brain instantly accepted it and thought it was some new anti-abortion legislation!! Damn, now there are laws enforcing misogyny?!! wtf?! LOL. Goes to show where MY brain is this morning.
anyway, your post is the truth and good mornin to ya.
“Maybe, sometime down the road you’ll strike up a conversation with the dude, making a conscious effort to overcome the urge to run, and you’ll realize he’s not even remotely interested in you. Seriously, not even a little. It’s not like you start grinding on every girl you meet?”
this is what i tell myself. i’m not attracted to every woman i see, so why would it make sense to think that every gay man is attracted to every man they see? thing is, there’s a difference being knowing something is truly and truly believing it, and thats where the breakdown occurs for me.
well it might be true that every gay man you encounter wants to bone you. you do look kinda gay in that leather jacket you always wear… *just sayin*
POW! lol E prima you made me spit out my coffee
“you do look kinda gay in that leather jacket you always wear… *just sayin*”
thanks gem
you’re welcome champikins!! *hugs*
Honestly, most men wouldn’t mind boning a large percentage of the chicks we meet on a daily basis. It would all depend on the situation and how easily we could bone.
Since that’s our mindset, we assume that gay dudes have the same mindset, which understably makes us a little uncomfortable. I know gay men don’t want to bone every dude they see, but given how I am about chicks, I assume they are the same way.
So, somebody explain to me why they are different.
First, let’s get something straight…
All straight men don’t want to bone every woman they see. That’s just how you think, and for you to assume that everyone or even a majority of straight men think that way, that’s faulty.
Secondly, unless you’re walking around looking like Shemar Moore, Mehcad Brooks, Morris Chestnut, or the like, most gay men aren’t going to be thinking about giving you a second look, much less boning (or being boned by) you.
If you’re that low of a guy to think about sexing a female everywhere you go, then you have issues, and that’s not normal. You, gays, bi’s, lesbians, and whoever you can think of, are much more than your sexuality and the desires that stem from it. Wake up. Wise up. Move on.
In a (not so small) nutshell. I like.
I think that most of us VSS are ok with male gayness in the sense of having a guy you can go shopping with or have “girl talk” with but we are still uncomfortable with the idea or visualization of gay male sex.
I think one, because it goes against all that we deem as “manly” and two, because we know how much butt chex hurts!!
I personally have no problem with gay men but I still get kinda sqeamish seeing two dudes kiss. I’m all for love and sh*t but I think hetero people are just hard wired via evolution to find same sex relaionships as unnatural because, technically speaking, they are. The most basic and universal function of all living organisms is to procreate.
So while I think people will eventually lighten up over time it will never be FULLY ok with most people for that very reason. It’s a paradox and sh*t.
ok with male gayness in the sense of having a guy you can go shopping with or have “girl talk”
I know you didn’t mean it that way, but I just want to point out that not all gay men are females with penises. A lot of them are just regular guys, who like regular guy stuff (whatever the h**l that means), and could care less about shopping and girl talk. Seriously, statements like this make me want to punch baby seals. Stereotypes are just insidious people.
Plus, this,’ The most basic and universal function of all living organisms is to procreate.’ somehow, with the exception of the Catholic church, I don’t see that many people up in arms about birth control and contraception. Which according to your criteria is just as unnatural as same sex releationships.
Anyway, I think you are right and generation by generation people will stop with the hate. Hopefully; hey, we have interracial marriages now. Lord know they weren’t playing that circa 1967.
Seriously, statements like this make me want to punch baby seals. Stereotypes are just insidious people.
amen to that!!!! i dont have a gay male bff nor do i want one! mostly becuz this is boiling gay men down to a stereotype! i would hate to find out any of my 2520 friends have me around as they “bla[xican] friend” so they can learn how to make fried chicken, mexican food, talk in jay-z lyrics and do the fist bump with to look cool. *smh*
and this…
I don’t see that many people up in arms about birth control and contraception. Which according to your criteria is just as unnatural as same sex releationships.
amen! *hi five* and co-sign
“my 2520 friends have me around as they “bla[xican] friend” so they can learn how to make fried chicken, mexican food, talk in jay-z lyrics and do the fist bump with to look cool. *smh*”
Dagnabit, there goes my plan. I’ve been keeping you around trying to learn how to make salsa and guacamole. lol!
LOL and crocheting!!! damn you, poison ivy, damn you!!
So, the argument that people are hypocrites somehow invalidates the argument that the natural function of all life forms is to replicate?
That’s illogical.
People aren’t up in arms about birth control because they are hypocrites. That doesn’t have anything to do with the urge to procreate and humans reaction to those who aren’t interested in procreation.
I understand your anger at folks who will mistreat homosexuals based on the procreation argument but then use birth control or have abortions, but that doesn’t mean the two issues are truly connected.
I think hetero people are just hard wired via evolution to find same sex relaionships as unnatural because, technically speaking, they are.
This is an example of the logic used to justify the ostracizing of homosexuals. I’m not saying that’s what you’re doing, just that people use some idea of what’s natural as a talking point. It kinda goes beyond de-humanizing. More like ‘you shouldn’t exist’-izing.
If homosexuality was ‘unnatural,’ then it wouldn’t exist. Something only needs one occurrence in order to be natural regardless of the value humans place on the event/organism/object (or lack thereof).
not sure evolution is to blame either, recall that several cultures including ancient Greece and Sparta (yup 300) engaged in all sorts of homosexual practices…..look up “pederasty” in antiquity if you are curious……not sayin this makes it right or wrong…just sayin people been doin it for a while (….not before Christ but a long f-ing time…..)
Jigga ref. for you BK
FYI folks – Relax. Taking my comment out of context. I wasn’t speaking about my own views, I was just hypothesizing why I think people have a problem with it. If you thoroughly read my post I said I don’t have a problem with anything, I just have a problem SEEING it (which I think alot of people would agree), but other than that I could give two shits less what anyone does behind closed doors. You could be f*cking animals or kitchen appliances for all I care…
I know all gay men aren’t effeminate and flamboyant – I was just following up on what Champ said about women wanting a “gay BFF”
No need to school me on gayness and sh*t, trust me, its the last thing on my mind!
@BKSweetheart…You could be f*cking animals or kitchen appliances for all I care…
Now this right here is funny as hell to me…..well not so much the animals, but the kitchen appliances….mental picture of someone getting all up on the toaster ….*DEAD*
Yeah I wasnt schooling you I was specifically talking to meteorman, agreeing with his assertion, I think ur comment had merit I just added the jigga reference as a tip of the hat to u……
“not sure evolution is to blame either, recall that several cultures including ancient Greece and Sparta (yup 300) engaged in all sorts of homosexual practices”
this is true. all socreates and aristotle and plato wrote about was philosophy and fellatio.
Just becoming a member of the 300 was mmmm…intense.
“If homosexuality was ‘unnatural,’ then it wouldn’t exist. Something only needs one occurrence in order to be natural regardless of the value humans place on the event/organism/object (or lack thereof).”
way to get all stephen hawkings(sp?) and sh*t
After your comment, Champ, I totally went back and read MeteorMan’s comment in monotone Stephen Hawking-voice.
“I think one, because it goes against all that we deem as “manly” and two, because we know how much butt chex hurts!!”
Are you sure all the VSS know this?
“I think one, because it goes against all that we deem as “manly” and two, because we know how much butt chex hurts!!”
***just wanted to let all the guys know that the bidding for bksweetheart’s email address will begin at 2pm est***
@The Champ – LMAO!!!! Oh please there isn’t a woman in here over the age of 23 that hasn’t been at the very least “accidentally” poked in the booty during chex!!
Y’all know I aint lyin!!!!
@ BK Sweetheart..
*dead like winter leaves..because sadly you AINT lyin!!
there’s no blanket statement that’s 100% on point..you are wrong on this account too..not every chick has experienced that
@The Champ
***just wanted to let all the guys know that the bidding for bksweetheart’s email address will begin at 2pm est***
Is there a reserve price?
17 cents
@The Champ
damn thats all my unchexed booty is worth
“17 cents”
i think I’ll pass.
Homosexuality not Natural? Annnnnd YOU’RE WRONG. Case and point:
http://www.livescience.com/animals/080516-gay-animals.html
Top Ten Gay Animals: http://www.livescience.com/bestimg/result.php?back=&cat=gayanimals
Humans didn’t teach these animals to be gay. Homosexuality is not a choice, no more than Heterosexuality is. Given, the ACT of having sex with someone is your choice, but that’s about it. You don’t tell yourself “im going to be aroused, get butterflied, be mushy, etc.” for any “type” of person. It just is. Have you ever questioned your own heterosexuality? No, because no one has probably ever brought it to your attention unless it was to compare or make reflection on the MINORITY sexuality. (you know, kind of like the same way white people don’t worry about being white until their black friend/associate/coworker reminds them or experiences something)
I was a bit homophobic…then I moved to Atlanta for school. Cleared that right up. I’ve never had issues with gay females, they all seem to love me. Vanquishing my homophobia allowed me to gain two of the best friends I could ever have. I still have limitations as to what I can “tolerate” or deal with, but that comes with straight folks too. I think in a world that is as close as the nearest keyboard, you can’t really live like that. It seems like nowadays, people are so worried about this down low situation that they want to see you stab someone in the neck during rush hour on the news at 9am to show how manly you are. I don’t worry about that stuff. A well placed “oooooooooooooow” (shout out to Brian from youtube) is just as funny from a straight man as it is from him. I figure, I’m not homophobic or gay, and if you doubt me, send your best heterosexual female friend by the crib….we’ll see.
I feel u on the post….the last sentence is funny to me….even when a brother is tryna show his progressiveness he still gotta stipulate something akin to a “no homo”……find that ironic, paradoxical, and confabulating at the same time
Hmmmm, valid thought process. I never thought of it as similar to “no homo”. Thank you for he new word, I’d never heard “confabulating” before.
“Thank you for he new word, I’d never heard “confabulating” before.”
that sounds gay
LMAO! Can’t lie…I thought the SAME thing…
LMAO!!!!!
I figure, I’m not homophobic or gay, and if you doubt me, send your best heterosexual female friend by the crib….we’ll see.
its funny you say this for a number of reasons, but mainly because im not sure a man’s romp in the sack with a woman could necessarily prove how hetero he is. presumably, a man could literally go in on a girl’s vadge just as hard (hehe) core as he could on another man’s a$$. sure, he might have more of an affinity for one than the other, but could, like many women in the missionary position, fake it.
basically, any man that says he can SHOW me his hetero-ness by some physical measure needs more ppl… preferably heteros.
It seems like nowadays, people are so worried about this down low situation that they want to see you stab someone in the neck during rush hour on the news at 9am to show how manly you are
Word. Life… And you know how I feel about that, bro.
—-
it’s somewhat easy for them to ignore the cognitive dissonance that occurs when professing the need for a “gay bff”
—-
Wait… black women’s gay BFF’s are black too?
Wow. I guess I missed the memo because I have hotmail.
——> goes to tell her white gay BFF we can’t be BFFs anymore. Damnit. I thought all gay BFFs were like Mark from Ugly Betty and sh*t.
“goes to tell her white gay BFF we can’t be BFFs anymore. Damnit. I thought all gay BFFs were like Mark from Ugly Betty and sh*t.”
exactly!
well, i’m one of those women with a gay bff. he’s actually (supposedly) technically bi and claims that he will eventually marry a woman. yet, i am uncomfortable with and opposed to the idea of dating any man who “used to be” gay. i’m not sure if that’s homophobic or not. and i know that i won’t know every man’s past or be able to tell just by looking. oh! also, it makes for slightly awkward moments when the bff and i are watching certain episodes of tyra or oprah (um….the ones with ted haggard….). but i’m okay with all that.
oh, and on another note, every once in a while my mom will see a flamboyant man and go, “…..is he…..gay?” it shocks me every time. i can’t believe she still finds gay spottings so unusual. girl, momma, bye.
yet, i am uncomfortable with and opposed to the idea of dating any man who “used to be” gay.
why?
If women think gay= less manly, then that man will always be less manly in her eyes.
I lurk a lot and comment little, but I know none of the VSB’s wants a “used to be h0e.” (nttawwt…right?) It just doesn’t fit with what you want for your life…
Please note, I am not linking gay to h0e…I’m just saying women and men may have similar, “No thanks” attitudes when it comes to people’s pasts regarding those two subjects.
“I lurk a lot and comment little, but I know none of the VSB’s wants a “used to be h0e.” (nttawwt…right?) It just doesn’t fit with what you want for your life…
Please note, I am not linking gay to h0e…I’m just saying women and men may have similar, “No thanks” attitudes when it comes to people’s pasts regarding those two subjects”
i know. whenever i encounter a woman who doesnt understand why a woman’s ‘out there” past bothers some men, i just ask her to imagine how you’d feel if you found out the guy you’re seeing used to be a little gay
i just ask her to imagine how you’d feel if you found out the guy you’re seeing used to be a little gay
for some reason, this made me chuckle. I think it was the “little gay” part…
It may also have to do with the fact that I wouldn’t believe that somebody used to be gay. If you were gay before then you are still gay. I don’t think you can turn on and off gay. I mean in the back of mind I would wonder if you still wanted to be with men and are truly attracted to women.
Man please… (no homo)
Black Author wins The Matrix Copyright Infringement Case
This little known story has met a just conclusion, as Sophia Stewart, African American author of The Matrix will finally receive her just due from the copyright infringement of her original work!!!
A six-year dispute has ended involving Sophia Stewart, the Wachowski Brothers, Joel Silver and Warner Brothers. Stewart’s allegations, involving copyright infringement and racketeering, were received and acknowledged by the Central District of California, Judge Margaret Morrow presiding.
Stewart, a New Yorker who has resided in Salt Lake City for the past five years, will recover damages from the films, The Matrix I, II and III, as well as The Terminator and its sequels. She will soon receive one of the biggest payoffs in the history of Hollywood , as the gross receipts of both films and their sequels total over 2.5 billion dollars.
Stewart filed her case in 1999, after viewing the Matrix, which she felt had been based on her manuscript, ‘The Third Eye,’ copyrighted in 1981. In the mid-eighties Stewart had submitted her manuscript to an ad placed by the Wachowski Brothers, requesting new sci-fi works..
According to court documentation, an FBI investigation discovered that more than thirty minutes had been edited from the original film, in an attempt to avoid penalties for copyright infringement. The investigation also stated that ‘credible witnesses employed at Warner Brothers came forward, claiming that the executives and lawyers had full knowledge that the work in question did not belong to the Wachowski Brothers.’ These witnesses claimed to have seen Stewart’s original work and that it had been ‘often used during preparation of the motion pictures.’ The defendants tried, on several occasions, to have Stewart’s case dismissed, without success.
Stewart has confronted skepticism on all sides, much of which comes from Matrix fans, who are strangely loyal to the Wachowski Brothers. One on-line forum, entitled Matrix Explained has an entire section devoted to Stewart. Some who have researched her history and writings are open to her story.
Others are suspicious and mocking. ‘It doesn’t bother me,’ said Stewart in a phone interview last week, ‘I always knew what was true.’
Some fans, are unaware of the case or they question its legitimacy, due to the fact that it has received little to no media coverage. Though the case was not made public until October of 2003, Stewart has her own explanation, as quoted at aghettotymz.com:
‘The reason you have not seen any of this in the media is because Warner Brothers parent company is AOL-Time Warner…. this GIANT owns 95 percent of the media… let me give you a clue as to what they own in the media business… New York Times papers/magazines, LA Times papers/magazines, People Magazine, CNN news, Extra, Celebrity Justice, Entertainment Tonight, HBO, New Line Cinema, DreamWorks, Newsweek, Village Roadshow and many, many more! They are not going to report on themselves. They have been suppressing my case for years.’
Fans who have taken Stewart’s allegations seriously, have found eerie mythological parallels, which seem significant in a case that revolves around the highly metaphorical and symbolic Matrix series. Sophia, the Greek goddess of wisdom has been referenced many times in speculation about Stewart. In one book about the Goddess Sophia, it reads, ‘The black goddess is the mistress of web creation spun in her divine matrix.’
Although there have been outside implications as to racial injustice (Stewart is African American), she does not feel that this is the case. ‘This is all about the Benjamins,’ said Stewart. ‘It’s not about money with me. It’s about justice.’
Stewart’s future plans involve a record label, entitled Popsilk Records, and a motion picture production company, All Eyez On Me, in reference to God. ‘I wrote The Third Eye to wake people up, to remind them why God put them here. There’s more to life than money,’ said Stewart. ‘My whole to the world is about God and good and about choice, about spirituality over ‘technocracy’.’
If Stewart represents spirituality, then she truly has prevailed over the ‘technocracy’ represented in both the Terminator and the Matrix, and now, ironically, by their supposed creators.
Stewart is currently having discussions with CBS about a possible exclusive story and has several media engagements in the near future to nationally publicize her victory. June 13th 2004. Sophia Stewart’s press release read: ‘The Matrix & Terminator movie franchises have made world history and have ultimately changed the way people view movies and how Hollywood does business, yet the real truth about the creator and creation of these films continue to elude the masses because the hidden secret of the matter is that these films were created and written by a Black woman…a Black woman named Sophia Stewart. But Hollywood does not want you to know this fact simply because it would change history. Also it would encourage our Black children to realize a dream and that is…nothing is impossible for them to achieve!’
This explains why they haven’t made anything since the Matrix. Speed Racer was meh.
Black people were the first to develop and introduce civilization to the rest of mankind. The facts have been dubiously and continuously erased from pop culture and relegated to fringe cultism. Our time to lead again is coming around again and I hope we become prepared. It won’t mean being “thing” oriented and primarily left brain functions that dileniate the difference between “things” but also integrative and right brained: ONE. The creative ability of the one balanced with the other is what allowed mankind to take huge leaps in developing civilization. You can do/be anything if we can begin to look internally and take overbearing focus off of external creation and get balanced. Avatar, Matrix etc and many of the big box office mega hits end with the well meaning white man coming to save everyone else from ourselves, himself and his peers. This is going to be a tumutuous year of change. If you thrive in a transforming environment it’s time to get busy if you don’t you’ll probably be cowering in a corner. Don’t. Take some chances this year. Be your own “messiah.” Look inwardly.
V for Vendetta and Ninja Assassin
***officially making this february’s nomination for vsb.com’s annual “comment of the year that has absolutely nothing to do with the entry it was posted it” award***
Lol. My bad Champ. Thanks for letting me get this out to your readership. It speaks to the strength of the network you’ve help build. My apologies for the lack of decorum. Sincere.
lol, dont worry about it. i’m glad that sista won her settlement
How much is she supposed to get because even a percentage of 2.5B is big cake.
most settlements are stipulated to be secret…..thats why they have to be “leaked”
Negro Legal
even a percentage of 2.5B is big cake.
You hear me!! I am glad she got her due! There are so many of these stories… and I can so see how quickly this can happen… *smh*
I know kung fu.
Seriously, though, I think I love this comment. Good look.
*Looks up Sophia Stewart on Google……Jaw Drops*
In my google searches, I even found out there is a blacknerds network!! w00t w00t!
snopes.com says this is false. cant find any credible internet source that suggests otherwise. where is this published??
There is a case number… here it is:
The case number in the Utah Federal Court… Civil No. 2:07-cv-00552
The Judge denied a dismissal and ruled the evidence stands.
I believe it’s easy to look that up.
i meant that this whole settlement thing was true. but this works too!!! lol… very easy to look up, thanks!!
Check your snopes son…
http://www.snopes.com/politics/business/matrix.asp
I don’t know… There’s something about my people being oppressed and continuously discriminated against that says to me that probably every black person should go ahead and let homosexuals have their freedom to marry without contest. Not too long ago, we had to jump over a broom…
Homosexuality is not “unnatural.” I really dislike the argument that basically turns de-humanizing into ‘you shouldn’t exist’-izing. If something exists, then it is natural. Its not even a new concept. If something EVER existed, then it’s natural. Some of us place some kind of value on “natural” like the world in which we paint it is what it should be. Newsflash: Reality is itself and is rarely what we (humans) think it should be.
Slight rant… I can picture 2520s from 450 years ago saying its “unnatural” for us to read and to live as citizens within a society.
I totally agree.
Also, gays should definitely have the right to marry. If they could marry each other, maybe they wouldn’t be marrying heterosexuals ceasing the down low-ness that’s going on.
i dont think ppl on the dl getting married to heteros has anything to do with actual marriage lol. and everything to do with wanting to be “normal” aka “hetero”. ninjas wanna beat another dudes meat without being a “fag”
“There’s something about my people being oppressed and continuously discriminated against that says to me that probably every black person should go ahead and let homosexuals have their freedom to marry without contest.”
I agree and disagree. It is my understanding that marriage has to do more with religion than with state law (civil right). While the state should be able to grant you partnership/union, should it still be called a marriage?
I also am not a fan of people comparing sexual orientation struggles to race struggles. I’m crunched for time right now but I will come back and explain.
“I also am not a fan of people comparing sexual orientation struggles to race struggles. .”
Thank you. I am not a fan of this at all.
neither am i
Nope. This lesbian in my office steady be trying to convince me. Ish makes me mad to type about it!
One day, she even changed my desktop to a photo of two black dudes with shirts that say, “Gay is the new black.” I wanted to clock that heffa…and those two dudes…lol
I know gays experience civil rights issues. But, they are completely separate from black civil rights issues.
I tried to explain to her that she gets to pick and choose who knows she’s gay. She’s not butch, so people may not always catch it. I’m black all day, every day. Rain, shine, sleet or snow. I love it and it’s not a burden, but I can’t put this skin away when it’s inconvenient. This me. You and your boo? Y’all can just be @ the house and no one has to know. Mmk?!
I’ve done this rant twice to a blank stare. I give up.
“I also am not a fan of people comparing sexual orientation struggles to race struggles. I’m crunched for time right now but I will come back and explain.”
Same here, as a gay rights supporter, I NEVER do this. And I actually get incensed when folks do this to defend their case. Because it DOESN’T defend it. There are so many other things you can say to defend gay rights without getting into some sort of Opression Olympics battle with race. Frankly, comparing gay rights and racial rights belittles the specific intricacies of both. They’re both rights, sure, but they are different and should be treated as such in order to get anything done. You can’t just wave a magic hand over both rights to solve them. Obviously they are two different struggles and will take two different methods to solve them.
absolutely agree with you cheeks (and miss t-lee and ivy st upthread).
i remember in my senior year of high school my econ teacher talked to us about this and how he thought it would take a LONG time for the “gay rights” movement to gain enough attention because they kept comparing themselves to the civil rights movement.
i hate the argument like i hate the holocaust vs. mid-atlantic slave trade argument. apples and zucchini really. just STOP!
lmfao @ “apples and zucchini”. Love the spin on the old saying.
LOL but seriously. apples to oranges doesnt even begin to describe the disconnect, imho. theyre both fruit and approx the same size. i needed something of greater contrast yet still in the same “produce” family lol.
“LOL but seriously. apples to oranges doesnt even begin to describe the disconnect, imho. theyre both fruit and approx the same size. i needed something of greater contrast yet still in the same “produce” family lol.”
Haha, I feel ya. And strongly agree.
thanks, ash, for clearing that up. i’ve always been uncomfortable w the comparison but that’s mostly because gay white folks be making that argument. and to me, they are still white and privileged (read: prone to appropriating sh*t) regardless of their sexuality. i never thought deeper than that about the merits of the argument. thanks again!
“I also am not a fan of people comparing sexual orientation struggles to race struggles.”
I’m not a fan of doing this but I’ve used the analogy in past. Hell I think I did on VSB a few weeks ago. My bad.
I also am not a fan of people comparing sexual orientation struggles to race struggles.
Cosign,…one has nothing to do with the other.
Well even if your service is performed by the county clerk and not a priest, it’s still called marriage. You get a marriage certificate and God has nothing to do with it. They say a couple of words about the State’s power. So I have to disagree. Marriage is whatever people want it to be. That’s why we have (or should have) separation of church and state.
While the state should be able to grant you partnership/union, should it still be called a marriage?
@Ivy St.
Sure. Why not? No one owns that word.
I also am not a fan of people comparing sexual orientation struggles to race struggles. I’m crunched for time right now but I will come back and explain.
I wasn’t equating sexual orientation struggles to racial struggles. I wasn’t even comparing… They are not comparable; however, I do feel that at times I want to tap certain individuals on the shoulder and say: “you’re not helping.”
More like STFUIts funny how people use the same belief system that was imposed upon them to shun the civil rights of others as well as a basis for ostracizing another group of humans. That is a fact.Its funny how people use the same belief system that was imposed upon them to shun the civil rights of others as well as a basis for ostracizing another group of humans. That is a fact
Say it loud and clear so more people can hear you.
People will be prejudiced no matter what… but it incenses me when the prejudiced against, turn around and also ostracize another group… Makes me think of the abusee who becomes an abuser. Endless, senseless cycle. *smh*
*standing ovation*
I love how progressive the VSBs are! It’s a good look!!!
MeteorMan “I don’t know… There’s something about my people being oppressed and continuously discriminated against that says to me that probably every black person should go ahead and let homosexuals have their freedom to marry without contest. Not too long ago, we had to jump over a broom…”
Co-signing 100% with you on this, Was gonna start off by saying “Some of my best friends are…..”, however that’s so cliche, and I can honestly say that I am not uncomfortable with folks being with whoever the eff they want to be with , it kills me when folks try to paint things as unnatural or please don’t get me started with the whole folks quotin bible verses & whatnot…and unfortunately I believe that there are still plenty of 2520s thinking & saying on Feaux News shows that it is STILL unnatural for us to be reading & living as citizens within a society…just will never get the whole pileup that must exisit and why someone always has to be at the bottom of the pile…damn societal norms & sh*t….k, i feel better now..thanks
biggup to all the bajans….Lord knows homosexuality gets no love from my fam
@Blacklaw- thanks for the biggup, and fuh true no love at all and “ironic, paradoxical, and confabulating at the same time”…..LOVE this line. sums it all up succinctly, I concur *
Truth.com!
I was having this very same topic of discussion with a good friend of mine (she happens to be a bad sistah, how she is still just a friend is topic for another VSB post).
I want an end to discrimination of all kinds and I dont buy into the “unnatural” thing because I’ve seen research showing incidence of homosexuality in nature, not that this is dispositive as there are a lot of things humans do that no other animal does (humans have opposable thumbs…aint too much of that in the animal kingdom)
Have no issues watchin two females go at it…as the Negro philosopher Dave Chappelle pointed out “that is beautiful” I do still have some “uneasiness” at the gay male kissing….and I am pretty sure I will never be able to watch a gay porn ….and that may be homophobic but, hell I aint perfect, tryna deal with my ish too
As far as who is “more” men vs. women, I would say its like racism in the north and south back in the day, men are more overt and far more likely to physically act on homophobia, women are more subtle and much more likely to deny discrimination
@Blacklaw-”I want an end to discrimination of all kinds “…Hi-Five, Fist Bump, and whatevah de hell else i could give yuh on that line right there…*CHUPES & Done
*for those not at all familiar with Caribbean Culture. Chupes=sucking of the teeth in a long drawn out kinda way , just thought I’d share cause the VSB folks are all about edumacatin others
LOL @ definition of Chupes. aka kiss teet.
@ Keisha Brown aka kiss teet.
who knew there could be so many ways of defining something such as this?Love it, just goes to show how vast our range as a people is….We are certainly a diverse group & sh*t ……
“as the Negro philosopher Dave Chappelle pointed out “that is beautiful” I do still have some “uneasiness” at the gay male kissing….and I am pretty sure I will never be able to watch a gay porn ….and that may be homophobic but, hell I aint perfect, tryna deal with my ish too”
Co-sign this. I remember the fall semester of my freshman year of college was the first time I saw two dudes kiss. Here I was, a little black boy fresh off the farm sweating in the early morning August heat in SC waiting to cross the street and two dudes in leather vests stop beside me on the sidewalk and they decide to suck face. That was uncomfortable but I got over it.
“Here I was, a little black boy fresh off the farm sweating in the early morning August heat in SC waiting to cross the street and two dudes in leather vests stop beside me on the sidewalk and they decide to suck face”
this comment was at least 78% gay.
You had to be there. That was the most masculine way that I could describe that situation. A 78% gay comment is needed to describe a 350% gay moment between these dudes. Damn, I’ve got to call my therapist. Thanks. *smmfh*
lol, i don’t think not watching gay porn makes someone homophobic. i mean, i dont wanna visit a slaughterhouse, but this doesn’t make me a vegan. (this made much more sense in my head)
btw, this statement…
“(she happens to be a bad sistah, how she is still just a friend is topic for another VSB post).”
…is useless without pics
“Have no issues watchin two females go at it…as the Negro philosopher Dave Chappelle pointed out “that is beautiful” I do still have some “uneasiness” at the gay male kissing….and I am pretty sure I will never be able to watch a gay porn ….and that may be homophobic but, hell I aint perfect, tryna deal with my ish too”
That’s what I was trying to say in my original comment. I don’t have a problem with anyone being gay, bisexual, try-sexual or any combination of whatever (with the exception of children or like dead bodies or some sh*t) but something about seeing two guys kissing just makes me a little uneasy. And I have seen about 24 seconds of a gay male pron… it was, um…. *blank stare* After I clicked the “X” I sat just staring at my computer screen for a few minutes just to process it..
But I don’t think that’s necessarily being anti-gay… sh*t I wouldn’t even wanna see a chick getting screwed up the a$$, just not sexy to me AT ALL.
I want an end to discrimination of all kinds
I need this on a t-shirt!
Damn, I actually forgot about Hooper X. I would read “White Hating Coon” btw.
Black homophobia is an odd thing. I claim to be “open-minded” but everyone has thas their “Gap” moments. Champ, you were honest about that and that could be the first step. Hell, I was trying to figure out a guys angle that I would see on the bus every morning. Dude was just too friendly, but ultimately harmless.
The moment we stop the Ted Haggard’s of the world from telling us about the gay demons may be the next step in quelling black homophobia. If you listen to people of his ilk they’d have you thinking that all homosexuals are vessels for demons like H. Stinkmeaner or worse. But debating this with a hardcore Bible thumper is like debating a Laker, Tupac, Cowboy fan…. or a member of the Waffen SS. (You just can’t talk to some folks.)
As for Prop 8, legislation of this type makes me wonder what legislation will come next.
The fact that older black folks act like homosexuality is new is what pisses me off… but older black folks are good for acting like certain things in our community are “new” happening.
Hear none. See none. Speak none.
The moment we stop the Ted Haggard’s of the world from telling us about the gay demons may be the next step in quelling black homophobia
see, i think black homophobia (at least in regard to gay black males) goes a bit deeper than that. as long as think of straight black males as hyper-heterosexual bastions of virility, the black community is going to be off-put and offended by the idea of a gay black man.
So we should get over ourselves? *scratching goatee.* That’s start to solving most problems though.
i dont think its just us though. its the black community’s definition of masculinity.
Our def of masculinity is the source of the problem. The fouled-up definition is instilled into VSB’s and our VSS’s from the moment we can speak. Maybe before. I’d love to see a post about black male masculinity and what it is?
But debating this with a hardcore Bible thumper is like debating a Laker, Tupac, Cowboy fan…. or a member of the Waffen SS.
This gets an A for analogies! Perfectly put.
Hate to get so heavy early in tha morning on here. Alot of people won’t like this (or won’t care)…2 bad. but…
Why is every black man considered “homophobic” simply because he doesn’t want to be around behavior that makes him uncomfortable? The bible says alot of things we do as humans are considered wrong, but it calls homosexuality an abomination. Don’t get me wrong, what a person does in his private life IS between him/her and God, but why do I have to expose myself and or explain to my children (until I’m ready) why two men or women are kissing when it clearly contradicts everything I’m raising them to believe?
You may be the smartest, coolest, most talented black man I’ve eva met, but if I’m not comfortable around your flaming gay personaility or the people you bring around my space then that’s my choice. Doesn’t make me homophomic. What’s makes me homophomic is thinking that EVERY gay man wants to check my anal temperture and use THAT as an excuse to bash him as a person or to keep my distance. Frankly, that would be ignorant IMO.
It’s ok that most here will probably believe my current logic is ignorant as well..*10in Shrug* Discuss..or not.
Really? Homosexuality contradicts EVERYTHING you are raising them to believe? Well, I would not want you to miss anything, so here are some further abominations to watch out for:
Proverbs 20:23
Unequal weights are an abomination to the Lord, and false scales are not good.
Isaiah 1:13
Bring no more vain offerings; incense is an abomination to me. New moon and Sabbath and the calling of convocations— I cannot endure iniquity and solemn assembly.
Leviticus 11:12 Whatsoever hath no fins nor scales in the waters, that shall be an abomination unto you.
for every shepherd is an abomination unto the Egyptians. Genesis 46:34
Proverbs 3:32 For the froward is abomination to the LORD
Luke 16:15 …for that which is highly esteemed among men is abomination in the sight of God.
Deuteronomy 23:18 “You shall not bring the hire of a harlot, or the wages of a dog, into the house of the LORD your God in payment for any vow; for both of these are an abomination to the LORD your God.”
Proverbs 6:16-19 There are six things which the LORD hates, seven which are an abomination to him: haughty eyes, a lying tongue, and hands that shed innocent blood, a heart that devises wicked plans, feet that make haste to run to evil, a false witness who breathes out lies, and a man who sows discord among brothers.
Jeremiah 2:7 And I brought you into a plentiful land to enjoy its fruits and its good things. But when you came in you defiled my land, and made my heritage an abomination.
Amen @ VeronicaCorningstoneD
the Bible is a book that was RE-written by man many many times. this may be blasphemous to say in an environment with many chuch-goers – but for every scripture that proves an argument, there is one that disproves it. Shouldn’t that be enough to STOP using this book as the BASIS for any argument? That’s like using wikipedia as your only source for a college paper. Expand and elaborate…
I took a class in undergrad that pointed out this same argument. I’m torn.
you took a class on using wikipedia??
lol! A class discussing the Bible.
If you selectively apply the Bible you find contradictions.
If you read the verses in the historical and scriptural context, there are no contradictions.
People who eschew learning biblical context, yet want to argue about what it says are as arrogant as Christians who constantly go around pointing the sins of others while ignoring their own.
Neither group is admirable.
@ VeronicaCorningstoneD
Nice list. Good thing Jesus was tha only perfect person to walk this earth or we’d all end up sweatin 4 enternity (if that’s what u choose 2 believe) Isn’t it nice 2 have free will?…*smile* So I use MY free will to decide who I let in my space or deal with on a personal level. Doesn’t mean I hate them, just don’t want 2 deal with em.. Just don’t believe everyone should be quick to labeled a “homophobe” bcuz of it…
“Proverbs 20:23
Unequal weights are an abomination to the Lord, and false scales are not good.
Isaiah 1:13
Bring no more vain offerings; incense is an abomination to me. New moon and Sabbath and the calling of convocations— I cannot endure iniquity and solemn assembly.
Leviticus 11:12 Whatsoever hath no fins nor scales in the waters, that shall be an abomination unto you.
for every shepherd is an abomination unto the Egyptians. Genesis 46:34
Proverbs 3:32 For the froward is abomination to the LORD
Luke 16:15 …for that which is highly esteemed among men is abomination in the sight of God.
Deuteronomy 23:18 “You shall not bring the hire of a harlot, or the wages of a dog, into the house of the LORD your God in payment for any vow; for both of these are an abomination to the LORD your God.”
Proverbs 6:16-19 There are six things which the LORD hates, seven which are an abomination to him: haughty eyes, a lying tongue, and hands that shed innocent blood, a heart that devises wicked plans, feet that make haste to run to evil, a false witness who breathes out lies, and a man who sows discord among brothers.
Jeremiah 2:7 And I brought you into a plentiful land to enjoy its fruits and its good things. But when you came in you defiled my land, and made my heritage an abomination.”
lol, damn. do you keep a list of Bible abominations handy just in case you get in a discussion like this?
@ Champ
lmao. Champ, u a mess dawg.
we all should! in fact..there should be an app for that!
*runs to patent it and sh*t.
I was gonna make this argument. I’m glad someone did.
I’ve never been clear on how people think Jesus made swine okay to eat but somehow left people out in a lurch.
how people think Jesus made swine okay to eat but somehow left people out in a lurch.
::snickers::
The religious argument annoys me to no end… I usually glaze over and move on. Don’t have the strength.
“The religious argument annoys me to no end… I usually glaze over and move on. Don’t have the strength.”
I’ve got to co-sign that. I’m not equipped to argue in that manner, but I could be an idiot or something.
The relgious argument is a belief system argument.
We all have belief systems that we live by. In some of those belief systems homosexuality is wrong. So is fornication and adultery.
In other belief systems some or all of those actions are just fine. The problem is not divergent belief systems, it’s people who try to impose their belief systems on others. That goes for Christians who try to FORCE others to live their lives according to the Bible, just like it goes for non-believers who try to FORCE Christians to abandon their beliefs.
Neither group is right, both are wrong. Ignoring the “religious argument” is just as silly as me ignoring “non-religious arguments.” Neither approach will lead to an advancement of humans understanding of each other.
I appreciate your honesty. Most of the people who comment on topics such as this are rarely truly honest, b/c if they were, they would be uncomfortable admitting that they find certain behaviors uncomfortable. Most people aren’t uber progressive and liberal, regardless of what they say. Black people are some of the most socially conservative people in this country. As long as that conservatism doesn’t transform into all out hate (like white folks killing abortion doctors), I don’t think there is anything wrong it.
“As long as that conservatism doesn’t transform into all out hate (like white folks killing abortion doctors), I don’t think there is anything wrong it.”
I agree with this.
“Why is every black man considered “homophobic” simply because he doesn’t want to be around behavior that makes him uncomfortable?”
I think folks just hate the stigma behind the word since it’s “trendy” now to be liberal and such (I really resent those mofos…this ish is not fashionable…these are people’s lives. Fake liberals actually get on my nerves than any strong conservative because at least they’re owning up to their ish…regardless of whether I agree with it…I respect folks who own up to their opinions, regardless of said opinion..anyway…#idigress), but honestly, if a man is “uncomfortable” around gay behavior…why is it out of left field to call him homophobic? Sure the word is incendiary, but doesn’t it just basically mean you have a “fear” of homosexuals? I mean, I guess I’d say that’s the basic definition of it but there are so many levels of the word. From “irriational fear” to “intense aversion”. But, since the word DOES have such a stigma nowadays, what else would you call it? The uncomfortable-ness? Or would you call it anything else at all? Just uncomfortable?
“But, since the word DOES have such a stigma nowadays, what else would you call it?”
this reminds me of how people don’t want to be branded as racist, despite the fact that they’ve said racist things and hold somewhat racist views. its almost as if you get more heat for calling someone a racist now then they do for actually saying the racist remark
“this reminds me of how people don’t want to be branded as racist, despite the fact that they’ve said racist things and hold somewhat racist views. its almost as if you get more heat for calling someone a racist now then they do for actually saying the racist remark”
*nods* Exactly, Champster.
lol oh wow, cheeks, i said the same thing!!! great minds…
*high five*
@ Cheekie
Honestly, I would simply call it a “dislike of being AROUND gays”. To say I DISLIKE gays takes on a whole nother meaning 2 me, sorry..it just does. I don’t dislike anyone I don’t know personally. I can dislike being around anyone (gay or straight) and their lifestyles all day long.
“Honestly, I would simply call it a “dislike of being AROUND gays”. To say I DISLIKE gays takes on a whole nother meaning 2 me, sorry..it just does. I don’t dislike anyone I don’t know personally. I can dislike being around anyone (gay or straight) and their lifestyles all day long.”
I don’t think being homophobic is based on knowing them personally, though. That’s what makes any predjudice irrational for people that fight against it.
true!!! you dont gotta know them personally to make judgments and discriminations. hell, i dont know gabrielle union but i dont like her a$$!!! (and i dont see why so many ppl like her. shes just eh to me)
“Why is every black man considered “homophobic” simply because he doesn’t want to be around behavior that makes him uncomfortable? The bible says alot of things we do as humans are considered wrong, but it calls homosexuality an abomination. Don’t get me wrong, what a person does in his private life IS between him/her and God, but why do I have to expose myself and or explain to my children (until I’m ready) why two men or women are kissing when it clearly contradicts everything I’m raising them to believe? ”
Exactly! Whether it’s homosexuality, a person who uses excessive profanity, drinks, steals, lies, etc…it’s a life style or behavior that I can choose NOT to be around. It doesn’t mean that I have hatred towards the individual; I simply choose to not support or be around them. All too often we think everyone can do everything and it should be accepted. If you, as a parent, deem a behavior to be unacceptable, why would you knowingly expose that same behavior to your child?
“You may be the smartest, coolest, most talented black man I’ve eva met, but if I’m not comfortable around your flaming gay personaility or the people you bring around my space then that’s my choice.”
I agree…I was going to respond in a similar way, but why do that when you’ve done all the….um….dirty work (so to speak)
@ Ivyette
lol. I gotcha back. I’ll be tha punchin bag 2day…
e-boo (if thats what you still are..), im very surprised you put yourself out there like that. but i appreciate your honesty.
yet, i think you are homophobic. you have a fear or strong dislike for homosexuals. whats wrong with labeling that uneasiness for what it is? would you rather call it homo-believeagainstitwitheveryounceofmysoul-ia? because we could call it that too. it doesnt really matter what you call it, you dont like gays! and thats our prerogative like a bobby brown song.
hell, i dont like being around ppl who dont bath regularly. i work with some of them and really i think there is a special place in hades for ppl (right next to the smoking section) who dont wash themselves (or their clothes) when they have the resources to do so. ok so you skipped a shower one day, but a FEW days?? and youre wearing the same sweaty tshirt over and over?? COME ON!!! spare my nostrils!! i mean that is something that is aversive to everybody in the vicinity–we are all negatively affected!! so yes, i judge those ppl and dislike them because of it. i am who i am!!
sorry had that lil tangent. just had to get that off my chest, since i clearly cant get the smell out of my olfactory bulb. *smh*
No fear or dislike of gays. Just wouldn’t want to be around those who are openly feminine about his lifestyle. It’s just not the way MEN were put on this earth to act. I’m not naive enough to believe that I don’t encounter closet homosexuals on a daily basis. But they don’t make me uncomfortable enough not to do business with them or have a decent conversation.
Once again, the deed of what the homosexual does is between him/her and their God, just like my sins are. (Man, i gotta list of em..) But here’s a hypo for ya..if I’m married and I openly cheat on my wife and you’re someone who strongly believes in monogomy/santity of marriage and that whole shabang, then you’re gonna most likely dispise my actions and my openly giggalo swagger.You’ll remove yourself from my presence (probably talk about me like a dawg) and keep it moving. Same difference. Ya think?
No fear or dislike of gays. Just wouldn’t want to be around those who are openly feminine about his lifestyle.
what do you call not wanting to be around somebody then?? LOL. you dont like them!! and its OK to say it!! damn, just admit you dont like gays. i dont like stinky ppl, i dont like smokers, i dont like religious or political zealots. i judge them and discriminate against them!! i would wear any -ist or -phobic title that went along with not wanting to be around or deal with such ppl because its what i am.
im not saying its wrong to dislike ppl based on their beliefs or lifestyle but i do think you should own up to it.
you’re homophobic eboo. GET OVER IT!!! (*it being called a homophobic, not being homophobic. altho honesty you should build a bridge and get over that too lol) x
p.s. got your vday ecard!! must have been sent to my spam cuz im just now getting it. youre so sweet eboo, thank you!! xoxox
@ gem of the ocean
I REFUSE to label myself homophobic. lol *shaking head no* As I stated upthread to Cheekie I will simply compromise and say I have a strong dislike or being AROUND (flaming) gay men.
As for the e-card..you’re welcome. I think I set a record for anyone who’s gone from “ain’t sh*t” to “sweet”.
you might REFUSE to label yourself, but the shoe still fits. so man up and wear that b*tch with pride, e-boo!!! dont sissy up on us now!!
Maybe your spelling makes you “homophomic”…
Hate to get so heavy early in tha morning on here. Alot of people won’t like this (or won’t care)…2 bad. but…
Why is every black man considered “homophobic” simply because he doesn’t want to be around behavior that makes him uncomfortable? The bible says alot of things we do as humans are considered wrong, but it calls homosexuality an abomination. Don’t get me wrong, what a person does in his private life IS between him/her and God, but why do I have to expose myself and or explain to my children (until I’m ready) why two men or women are kissing when it clearly contradicts everything I’m raising them to believe?
You may be the smartest, coolest, most talented black man I’ve eva met, but if I’m not comfortable around your flaming gay personaility or the people you bring around my space then that’s my choice. Doesn’t make me homophomic. What’s makes me homophomic is thinking that EVERY gay man wants to check my anal temperture and use THAT as an excuse to bash him as a person or to keep my distance. Frankly, that would be ignorant IMO.
It’s ok that most here will probably believe my current logic is ignorant as well..*10in Shrug* Discuss..or not.
I agree with everything you said. I don’t think I am homophobic but if anything being around gay men and women causes me to be more aware. I think aware is the word I want to use. It’s like I am aware of their presence at all times. I am not fan of PDA between two men but that is because it makes me feel a little out of place.
@ Ivy st
So you’re saying aware = “strong gaydar”?
“I am not fan of PDA between two men but that is because it makes me feel a little out of place.”
do you want them to include you?
Bwahahahaha!
I don’t think that’s the point. We’re all exposed to things that make us uncomfortable because it doesn’t fit in with our lifestyle. Like cigarettes, crack head or curse words. We don’t necessarily put ourselves out there to experience those things but they happen around us. I hear what you are saying. No one is asking you to go out and make a gay friend to prove your openness. I’m sure your beliefs don’t require you to disrespect or disregard anyone as a person or a human being.
But some Black men are homophobic to such a point, they have to clarify that they aren’t homosexual whilst using everyday vocabulary. That’s just ridiculous.
But some Black men are homophobic to such a point, they have to clarify that they aren’t homosexual whilst using everyday vocabulary. That’s just ridiculous.
great point, and so true. i actually think “oh but you are homo” for ninjas who say “no homo”. its like im hearing them say “yo homo”–the spanish “yo” meaning “i”
Did I miss the memo that all of us ladies want a gay BFF?
I completely missed that memo, too.
thats why ya’ll need to get off of hotmail
*jadakiss laugh*
I did! I’ve never had one. I think Champie has been watching too many shows on VH1.
Interesting topic.
I think black homophobia is based in a lot of fear. For men, it’s fear that another man may threaten their “manliness” by coming at them. For today’s black woman, it’s fear that her man may be on the down low.
Sadly, the black woman’s fear is actually more viable than the black man’s. I mean, how often in real life has a gay man made an overt pass on a straight dude? He might be giving you a hard time, but he ain’t really gonna push up on it in the club. Probably. If you don’t live in Atlanta. (Lol! I kid, I kid. Kinda. I’m in my office in Buckhead right now, so I can talk about my own city, ok?!)
I’ve been the woman duped by a down low brotha. That ish is scary. And real. Like d*mn. I almost got bamboozled into marriage before I came across some intense, photographed Craigslist postings on his laptop while I was researching wedding venues. I’m pretty baggage free, but…that ish right there?! I still find myself looking for obvious (broken wrist) and subtle (you and your homeboy when to a club? What club? The one on Peachtree? Explain. Now.) clues to ascertain a man’s homosexuality potential. I am slightly paranoid. Can ya blame me?
That experience has opened (and closed) my mind in a lot of ways. 90% of me thinks we just need to stop talking about/judging gay people If we just let people feel free to be themselves, these black men wouldn’t feel forced to hide who they truly are. If you gay, then be gay! Lawd…if not for anything but MY mental sanity, just be gay.
But, while 90% of me really, truly feels that way, I cringe a bit when I see two dudes kissing. In my head, I’m like, o__O “…why?” But I shake it off, cause that’s not my business (until you get in a relationship with me, that’s when I have a problem with it).
I got too much else going on in life to worry about what other folks are doing in their bedroom. It’s when they bring it to MY bedroom that gets me riled up.
“I’ve been the woman duped by a down low brotha. That ish is scary. And real. Like d*mn. I almost got bamboozled into marriage before I came across some intense, photographed Craigslist postings on his laptop while I was researching wedding venues.”
damn. i thought this only happened in eric jerome dickey novels
LOL! Me too, Champ. Me too….SMH
I agree with everything you stated Ash besides the fear of my man leaving me for another man. I am sure it happens, but were there no other signs that you man was gay besides what you saw on his computer? I have a friend who I swear is dating a DL brother. It isn’t just obvious to me but others as well. She plans to marry him as well but a part of me feels like she MUST know. Then again all gay men (especially those trying to hide it) aren’t flamboyant. There isn’t a “typical” gay man but I think there are similarities, just like there are similarities between women that only they share.
Well hindsight is 20/20, so now everything he did = gay. My friends are still split about who “knew” and who didn’t.
A few things…
Once, I found a picture of his thang on his digital camera. When I asked him about it, he said he just wanted to see how long it was. I mean, I gave him the side eye, but I thought, “typical man, obsessed with his member.” I later found those same photos on craigslist as he requested oral from married men in the Metro Atl area (craigslist will traumatize you. Men looking for gay sex while their wife is out shopping. Like, really???!?!)
He couldn’t throw a football. Now every man isn’t an athlete, but I never saw him pick up a basketball, a football, a baseball. Nothing. Ever. He did watch football faithfully though…
He was sneaky as hell. Like, if he wanted to get away with something, he could. I think he got sloppy with the craigslist thing, but we’d been together for years by then, so anyone would get sloppy after a long period of time.
He used to argue with me like a girl. And he had me thinking that ish was normal. Now that I’m back dating again, I see that most dudes just, “let us have it.” Not this ninja. He would argue me to the death about the smallest thing.
He was a member of Alpha Phi Alpha.
He was a member of Alpha Phi Alpha.
FELLOUTTAMYBARSTOOLANDONTOTHEFLOORLAUGHINGMYLUNCHUP!!!!! Thought this was only true in Mississippi! BWAHAHAHAHAHAH!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
“He was a member of Alpha Phi Alpha.”
*snickering*
Well dayum (Gucci!)
LOL! I know we shouldn’t generalize, but…I had heard that about Alphas before I started dating him and shook it off, but he had so many chapter brothers that were gay and then he was, too. I can never date another one. Sorry.
What was the state of homophobia with black women before JL King came out with his book and the hysteria about DL black men became so popular? Would you think that black women were homophobic but didn’t have a reason to express it until the DL phenomenom came about?
Would you think that black women were homophobic but didn’t have a reason to express it until the DL phenomenon came about?
yeah, i think that book was a convenient excuse.
I really don’t have any issues with homosexual men or women. At the same time I am not completely comfortable with homosexuals showing their affection to each other. Even when I watch television I change the chanel if two men are kissing. It bothers me when they do it on Saturday Night Live as a joke. Other than that I have no problems with them. What I don’t understand why people would want them to deny who they are? They didn’t choose to be this way and even if they did who cares.
“Even when I watch television I change the chanel if two men are kissing. It bothers me when they do it on Saturday Night Live as a joke.”
you probably hated the sopranos then, huh?
There is a difference between kissing on the cheek e.g. the sopranos and kissing in the mouth e.g. adam samberg skit.
I really hate how the gay BFF is portrayed by some black women. It’s almost like he is an accessory, like a new bag or a great pair of shoes. I find it a little insulting. These women don’t want him as a friend, the want him as a gay friend, a caricature of homosexuality they can go shopping with, and who can point out to them all of the DL men at the club. smh… And is it me, or are a lot of women with gay BFF single women? IDK… I’m more than a little offended by all of the black progressive woman’s proclamations of “I love the Gays”, when in reality they probably don’t love lesbians nor non-efiminate gay men…
“I’m more than a little offended by all of the black progressive woman’s proclamations of “I love the Gays”, when in reality they probably don’t love lesbians nor non-efiminate gay men…”
i wanted to bring this point up in my post, but i could find anywhere to fit it. thanks and sh*t
you’re welcome & shyt
Interesting post Champ. When I first read this post, I thought to myself that I am definitely not homophobic and this was an overstatement on your part. After reading through the comments, maybe I do have some homophobic tendencies. It’s not to the extent that I feel gays/lesbians shouldn’t have the same civil rights that everyone has, it is more that maybe I have placed them in a box. I’ve been accepting or at least forced myself to be accepting since my youngest brother is gay and has always been gay (yes it is natural and for most it isn’t a choice). I say for most because some childhood experiences may force some to alter their sexual orientation. I don’t have any reason to be homophobic besides the fact that it is different and I can’t quite understand it. Being raised in part by my southern grandma, who didn’t quite put being gay down but made it seem almost like. On the flip side as a highly educated woman, I see that one’s sexual orientation is something that can’t be changed like race and gender. I still have some reservations. I’m not sure why.
Ya know, I can get with this comment. It’s something that I’ve been forced to accept and deal with as well since my sister is gay. I was gonna try to type up something, but I think I will co-sign your comment since it’s pretty close to what I would have said.
i dont think one is homophobic just because homosexuality is inexplicably uneasy to them. you are confused about how you feel, and thats natural for lots of different things, not just sexual orientation. but it doesnt seem like youre dismissive of gay lifestyles or belittling of them. most ppl raised outside of a homosexual perspective are going to find homosexuality odd and difficult to see as “normal” since we are raised to think its abnormal and something we just have to “deal with” instead of something that just is.
This is a great and honest comment.
It sorta mirrors the way my older sister feels about my bisexual little cousin. There are so many levels when it comes to how family members deal with gay people in their family. While she is probably more on the conservative side when it comes gay issues, honestly, a lot of her “sadness” regarding the news is actually due to how society will treat him and how scared she is for him. And on a deeper level, she is now coming to grips with her own daughter’s sexuality. There are so many different reasons why family members are “disappointed” when they hear their loved one is gay…it doesn’t just have to do with them being uncomfortable about it or not painting the “picture-perfect” family (i.e. “I want you to have children blah blah blah”).
“anyway, thinking about all of this helps me to understand why so many “enlightened” sistas are loathe to admit that they’re just as (if not more) homophobic than the typical brotha is assumed to be.”
Even though I don’t believe I’m one of those sistas now (more on that later), I can agree with this. And you make a good point about it being more subtle and not as direct as brothas using slurs, but the harbored feelings and anxiety in sistas doesn’t make it any less homophobic than something said more loudly.
I believe I’ve always been more “liberal” when it comes to gay people, even to the point where I have to argue with my more “conservative” (only on that issue) older sister — someone who I wholeheartedly agree with on pretty much all other political issues. When you wrote about getting anxious around gay males regardless of whether or not they were attracted to you, I felt the same way around lesbian girls during high school. I always tensed up around them…until one of my best friends came out to me. Now, granted I always sort of “knew” she was, but it took me pretty much all of high school to become comfortable around lesbians without being paranoid that they’re going to try to hit on me. Now, of course when they tend to get aggressive, I recoil just as I would an aggressive man I wasn’t feelin’ like that. I also believe that in high school I wasn’t as comfortable with who I was…my sexuality…that made me so skittish about lesbians. I truly had to get to know them as people to treat them as well…people. Not a group of coochie-hungry chicks that want any and every chick they meet. I had to slap myself in the forehead and be like, “Um, duh, they got standards just like you. Get the eff over yourself.”
“…a group of coochie-hungry chicks that want any and every chick they meet.”
this, btw, was the original title of “sex in the city” until the hbo people decided to go in a different direction
I always tensed up around them…but it took me pretty much all of high school to become comfortable… without being paranoid that they’re going to try to hit on me.
i feel this way about ugly guys.
lmfao…I still feel this way about ugly guys in a way. But then again, 95% of ugly guys make it known they’re into you. Weren’t we talmbout this here some time ago how the fugly and/or greasy old men always be the ones who make it known they want you? They be the main ones neva scared while the cuties are sometimes shy and more cautious about their ish.
lol exactly. but i feel like if youre bold enough to step to me then youre bold enough to get rejected. dont save face by tryna make yourself seem more appealing, trust me i stopped paying attn the second you breathed on me. same with gay girls who try to holla–i dont want you! not because you’re gay, but because im not!
Word. *folds arms*
i dont want you! not because you’re gay, but because im not
i’m confused and sh*t
“i’m confused and sh*t”
That’s the reaction you usually get to your deez.
While I do have gay friends whom I love dearly, and do not treat as an accessory or shopping buddy (I actually tried to turn one of my gay friends into my shopping buddy and it nearly ended our friendship…lol some men just hate shopping with women!) I admit, and have admitted to my gay friends that I do not understand all aspects of a “gay relationship”
I think admitting that actually made me a better friend, because I know on certain topics we can just agree to disagree. Kind of like with the friend who dates a guy she’s knows is no good, or the family member who continues to have children by a cheat (***sorry I had a moment), there are just some things that you will never understand about others and it’s easiest to admit that and move on while deciding to further educate yourself in regards to the misunderstood the future.
I have made an honest effort to educate myself and understand more aspects of the same sex relationship, and I think it makes me a better friend taking it one step at a time versus just trying to make it seem like I am at peace with all that comes with a same sex relationship.
I think if others tried this approach as well that it would make this world a better place **Michael Jackson Style***.
“I admit, and have admitted to my gay friends that I do not understand all aspects of a “gay relationship””
well, other than the sex, what would be different?
I am curious as well…
The sex is the aspect that I don’t understand…but in my relationships, that’s a big part of the relationship once I get to know my partner..so it must be a big part in there’s too right???Or am I just an oversexed lady??
My views tend to be all over the place on this topic. I strive to be open-minded about all things in life and choose to question everything. During the majority of my years I’ve believed that homosexuality is wrong (admittedly, however, I’ve never taken issue with female homosexuality). I’m certain that my prior disdain for same-gender relations was rooted in what was taught to me in the context of religion. Having progressed to the point where I could question religion, I also began to question its teachings.
I used to think wholeheartedly that to be gay was to CHOOSE to be gay. Even now I struggle to abandon this concept, but then I consider this. Obviously there are men and there are women. A hermaphrodite is a person born with both male and female genitalia. If a human can be born with a blend of physical gender characteristics, is it so inconceivable that a person could be born with a blend of psychological gender characteristics – characteristics that would make them instinctively predisposed to same-sex attraction? In spite of this, I still find it disturbing when two dudes are being intimate with each other.
As cliché as it may sound, my best female friend is gay (actually my two best female friends are a couple). Our friendships have transcended any consideration of their orientation. However, when the topic of gay marriage arises, I remain against it. Don’t get me wrong, I’m not against same-sex unions. I’m not against the creation of an institution for same-sex couples who want to be legally bound for life with the same partnership rights and entitlements granted to married couples. I just don’t think it should be called marriage. In that regard, I remain traditional and think that marriage describes the union between one man and one woman.
As far as the question of the day goes, women are more homophobic than men. That is all.
“However, when the topic of gay marriage arises, I remain against it. Don’t get me wrong, I’m not against same-sex unions. I’m not against the creation of an institution for same-sex couples who want to be legally bound for life with the same partnership rights and entitlements granted to married couples. I just don’t think it should be called marriage. In that regard, I remain traditional and think that marriage describes the union between one man and one woman.”
this is exactly how i feel. like, word for word
Why? Why does another couple’s marriage redefine yours? If I’m married to my husband, and my lesbian coworker is married to her wife, what do the two have to do with one another?
Right…
I think people have issues with stuff like this across the board when it comes to relationships…like because someone doesn’t fill the joe schmo definition of something, then it’s not “official”.
Define YOURself and YOUR relationships by YOUR own personal rules. Don’t subject other people to them.
Exactly!!
Why does what another person calls something negates how I understand that something to be?
I think I have chalked it up to people in general being very resistant to change and things they don’t know.
“Obviously there are men and there are women. A hermaphrodite is a person born with both male and female genitalia. If a human can be born with a blend of physical gender characteristics, is it so inconceivable that a person could be born with a blend of psychological gender characteristics – characteristics that would make them instinctively predisposed to same-sex attraction?”
I’ve been saying this for years. Bottom line: We are who we are supposed to be.
Being homosexual is more natural than the clothes we’re wearing right now. It’s foreign to us because we’ve been conditioned to think about it certain way. The same way, interracial marriage was in a time before our own and still is in some places. Many of us are probably to young to conceive of a time where an interracial couple, or even an interfaith couple literally turned someone’s stomach.
“However, when the topic of gay marriage arises, I remain against it. Don’t get me wrong, I’m not against same-sex unions. I’m not against the creation of an institution for same-sex couples who want to be legally bound for life with the same partnership rights and entitlements granted to married couples. I just don’t think it should be called marriage. In that regard, I remain traditional and think that marriage describes the union between one man and one woman.”
I never understood this argument. It’s about vocabulary and it essentially says that they’re different and as such they can’t have what we have. It’s basically the equivalent of a hetero-only water fountain of love for our homosexual brethren. “Here you can have one of your own. You just can’t use ours.”
I never understood this argument. It’s about vocabulary and it essentially says that they’re different and as such they can’t have what we have. It’s basically the equivalent of a hetero-only water fountain of love for our homosexual brethren. “Here you can have one of your own. You just can’t use ours.”
LOL @ hetero-only water fountain of love. but i agree with you one hunit percent. does it REALLY matter what you call it?? because clearly if you let the likes of jlo, the donald, and dennis rodman get “married” theres nothing SACRED about this “institution”. tom-ay-to, tom-ah-to. but for whatever reason, the word used matters to ppl. i dont get it.
“LOL @ hetero-only water fountain of love. but i agree with you one hunit percent. does it REALLY matter what you call it?? because clearly if you let the likes of jlo, the donald, and dennis rodman get “married” theres nothing SACRED about this “institution”. tom-ay-to, tom-ah-to. but for whatever reason, the word used matters to ppl. i dont get it.”
COSIGN 100000% – Please, these days there’s nothing “sacred” about marriage. You got celebrities getting married for publicity (no Khloe K.), people marrying old ass dudes they don’t give a sh*t about for money, people paying someone to marry them so they can get their citizenship.. Its a mockery.
I am for gay marriage 1) because if two men or women are in love and want to be together, they should be able to get the same benefits and protections as hetero couples and 2) why the hell not? Gays getting married doesn’t diminish anyone else’s ability to get married so who gives a flying f*ck??
Although my one problem with the whole gay marriage debate is that they seem to be so hung up on calling it “marriage” – I can understand the argument but at the same time, who cares what its called – a civil union, a declaration, life partner or whatever the hell as long as they can get their benefits and such.. I mean in my mind it could be called “timbuktu” as long as they’re getting equal rights. I guess I understand its the principle… but I think gays should take whatever they can get for now and work on getting it to be called a “marriage” at some future point cause I don’t see that happening for a long time in this country
LOL yeah marriage can and is made a mockery of by many. NO ONE is policing marriages between the sluttiest, dumbest, and crack-out-est couples. but ppl wanna get all in a funk over same-sex couples. it makes NO sense. and ppl who are anti-gay marriage should be embarrassed because they are just plain IDIOTS!!
now i can see why the gheys want to call it “marriage” as deviant mentions upthread. why should it be called something else?? why have to make it “special” and “set aside” just to give basically the same damn rights. if its EQUAL rights why not have the same damn name?? black ppl dont have “special” or “set aside” laws or rights, theyre called CIVIL–meaning for EVERYBODY. gheys are different in sexual orientation, but they contribute to this country (pay muhfuggin taxes!) just like the heteros. why do they have to have a subset of basic rights??
its unreasonable!!!
It’s basically the equivalent of a hetero-only water fountain of love for our homosexual brethren. “Here you can have one of your own. You just can’t use ours.”
Y’all have managed to make serious topic funny! I am dead
“I just don’t think it should be called marriage. In that regard, I remain traditional and think that marriage describes the union between one man and one woman.”
I definitely respect this opinion and don’t want to come across as trying to change your mind (because I can’t), but I always have to ask these questions to those who want to uphold the sanctity of marriage:
- Do you believe divorce rates are just as harmful to this sanctity as amending the definition of the word?
- We’ve amended several words in history in order to keep current with the ever-changing times. Why is the word “marriage” so sacred? And furthermore, we’ve also amended what biblical rules we abide by due to the changing times, so why can’t we amend marriage? If it isn’t hurting anyone and/or affecting your life, what’s wrong with it? Again, I ask this sincerely as I honestly want to know the reasoning behind this idea and why people feel so strongly about it.
You asked that really well and respectfully. Co-sign on wanting to know the answer.
Primarily because it remains true to the traditional definition of marriage that I have become accustomed to. Beyond that, it simplifys communication. Consider this…when we say gay that describes male/male or female/female relationships. When we say lesbian, we are specifically speaking of female/female relationships. Similarly, I think the word marriage should specifically be speaking of male/female unions…for clarity’s sake.
“I definitely respect this opinion and don’t want to come across as trying to change your mind (because I can’t), but I always have to ask these questions to those who want to uphold the sanctity of marriage:
- Do you believe divorce rates are just as harmful to this sanctity as amending the definition of the word?
- We’ve amended several words in history in order to keep current with the ever-changing times. Why is the word “marriage” so sacred? And furthermore, we’ve also amended what biblical rules we abide by due to the changing times, so why can’t we amend marriage? If it isn’t hurting anyone and/or affecting your life, what’s wrong with it? Again, I ask this sincerely as I honestly want to know the reasoning behind this idea and why people feel so strongly about it.”
for me, its more about semantics than “the sanctity of marriage”. to expound, i could never be a nun. why? because nuns are women who’ve given their lives to the catholic church, and i’m not a woman. a man can do a ton of other things with the church, but he can’t be a nun. i feel the same way with the term marriage. to me, a “marriage” is a civil union between one man and one woman, and no other combination fits
now, i’m not saying that gays who want to be together can’t have the same benefits and whatever else as a married couple. but, i just think a different word needs to be used to describe that coupling
“for me, its more about semantics than “the sanctity of marriage”. to expound, i could never be a nun. why? because nuns are women who’ve given their lives to the catholic church, and i’m not a woman. a man can do a ton of other things with the church, but he can’t be a nun. i feel the same way with the term marriage. to me, a “marriage” is a civil union between one man and one woman, and no other combination fits”
Gotcha. I completely understand the semantics thing as it’s a common thing for people to feel strongly about with a lot of words. Now do you feel so strongly about it that if the alteration of the word “marriage” were held to a world vote, would you vote against it? Again, I’m asking because the definitions of words have been amended to fit modern times before and will continue to be. Why so serious (no joker) about this one?
cheeks, im realizing that you and i are damn near saying the same things all up and thru this post. and because you think like me, you rock!
LOL, ditto! I also noticed that amongst all of this agreeing, you rather have ice cream and cake Same here! (#eerie). I was always the kid who didn’t really eat birthday cake and ate tons of ice cream at birthday parties. lol
lol yessssssssssss!!!!!!! omg we are so >here<
i was just at Ivy St's the other day. i ate the bday cake because i felt obliged to do so, but i just really wanted the damn ice cream, ana mae!!
“i was just at Ivy St’s the other day. i ate the bday cake because i felt obliged to do so, but i just really wanted the damn ice cream, ana mae!!”
AHAHAHA! Love it.
@Gem of the Ocean
No I personally don’t think it should be called anything else – i’m speaking from a standpoint of actually getting legislation passed with it called “marriage” – I think most educated and civilized folk, moderate dems and republicans may not have a problem with gay marriage as a concept – it’s the religious zealots and redneck folk who aint having that shat. So i’m saying from a legislative standpoint – if I was gay, i wouldn’t be out here saying “either its called marriage or i’m against it” – I say, hey you better take what you can get and get your motherf*ckin money and benefits and whatever else… ya know???
i hear you lol i was just making a general point as to why i could see how itd be kind of offensive to be like “no you cant be married, but you can be a special something else”. thats all.
i also totally get champ’s point about the semantics of it all. but still, #imjustsayin
@ Caballeroso,
You might have already done so, but I’m curious as to why you believe that (marriage describes the union between one man and one woman).
Random thought I had in regards to this very topic (same-sex marriage/unions): Most of the arguments against same sex unions is the sanctity of the word marriage. That a union must be joined by a pastor/priest/person of God. So..are all heterosexual unions not performed by said person (at city hall, on a beach by a licensed person) not considered real marriages either?
Ivy St, Ms t-lee, and The Champ (and anyone else who shares this perspective)
“I also am not a fan of people comparing sexual orientation struggles to race struggles. .”
why not?
I just don’t think that the struggles are the same. Yes, both communities have had struggles, but it’s really apples and oranges comparing the Black struggle to the gay struggle. I mean, gay folks weren’t lynched simply for being gay. There were no Jim Crow type laws pertaining to gay folks. (as far, as I know, I don’t claim to know for sure…lol)
I’m not saying that the gay community has not had its share of injustices, or that people have not been bashed, injured, or killed because of their sexuality. I just feel that the struggle is not the same. Especially when I hear from gay friends that there is still a racial divide even within the community. That right there, really makes me feel like the struggle is not equal.
That’s only because you can pretend you’re not gay. Everybody can’t pretend they’re not black.
If there was some outward, physical symbol of gayness. They’d have been slaughtered right along with everyone else.
“Especially when I hear from gay friends that there is still a racial divide even within the community. That right there, really makes me feel like the struggle is not equal.”
This is a strong point. I notice that Blacks are publicly lambasted for not supporting gay folks, but the opposite occurs as well. But, I rarely see as much chastizing for that.
And as for people saying that Black folks can marry and gay folks can’t, there are things that they can do and Black folks can’t.For example, a white gay man can walk into an interview and not get discriminated against because there is no “I’m gay” stamp on his forehead (and of course, not all gay men are identifiable). Black folks can’t hide their skin color in order to function in society without facing discrimination. Things like that are why I don’t think it’s a matter of “well, if you can do this, why can’t I?” because I think both groups have certain privileges over the other.
I notice that Blacks are publicly lambasted for not supporting gay folks, but the opposite occurs as well. But, I rarely see as much chastizing for that.
That’s because, gay or not, those are still white people. Ignorance knows no bounds.
“That’s because, gay or not, those are still white people. Ignorance knows no bounds.”
Haha! I laughed for real…
“That’s because, gay or not, those are still white people. Ignorance knows no bounds.”
Yup, exactly. Doesn’t make it any less hypocritcal, though. Because again, these are the SAME people who try to defend their cause by comparing racial struggles to gay struggles, which I still think is ineffective and unecessary.
I’m one of the folks that agreed with Icy. My “brief” response is upthread where Ivy St first said it. I go could go all long-winded and describe more of ya want. I’m good at it. lol
“I also am not a fan of people comparing sexual orientation struggles to race struggles. .”
why not?
Because there is not a social economic system that was created to exploit gays. Gays were not intentionally stripped of who they are. Western Europe did not gain their wealth by exploiting and opressing gays. While there are some superficial similarities the civil rights movement is a different. Gays were never kept from voting, redlined, etc.
great points!!!!
I think they are separate just like race and gender issues are separate. While one can hide being gay, they can not hide their race. I know people are born with their sexual orientation but if a gay man chooses he can sleep with a woman tomorrow where as I can never be white.
While I am not that current with all of the movement against gays/lesbians, I doubt they have been discriminated by the masses like blacks. Gays have always been able to receive an education or job, whereas blacks have not. In agreement with miss t-lee, while I am aware of the Matthew Shepard slaying and few like it, gays haven’t been lynched by the masses. I say all this to say that the oppression that blacks have received is not the same as that in which gays have.
Gays haven’t been lynched by the masses because they can’t be fingered out, as you mentioned above.
But let’s not forget about the scores of Black folks who passed for white for the exact same reason.
this thought process also leads them to dismiss the idea that a man telling his son to “stop being a sissy” and a woman refusing to date a man who they heard might have been a sissy in 1995 come from the exact same place.
i think its one thing for a heterosexual woman to desire a heterosexual man (and even hope to have heterosexual children, esp sons) and is entirely another to hate or dismiss homosexuals (man or woman) and their cause.
its true that “some of my closest friends and family members are gay”. my lesbo bff and her wife are expecting my godson this spring. so in some sense my godson will have THREE moms. anyway… im completely comfortable with members of the LGBT community. the sight of 2 gheys making out in public is just as disgusting to me as 2 heteros — im an equal opportunity hater of PDA. but at the same time, i dont want a man who has homo tendencies or is likely to be seen on the cover of “Black Men on the DL Digest”. why?? because EYE am a hetero sista who wants a hetero brotha. that doesnt make me homophobic, that just makes me allergic to bullsh*tting *ss ninjas who are confused about their sexuality. either be a ghey or be a straight — dont do both, at least not with ME.
but i also have a problem with the gheys who think all heteros are an “experience” away from being a turned out homo ho. tho it hasnt happened much in my life, ive been hit on by other women. and it doesnt bother me. hell, im FLY!! but it does bother me when the same woman continues to hit on me or try to convince me that shes the woman i need in my life. im just as offended when a guy im not attracted to continually tries to holla, thinking the more he talks the more he can change my mind. the same general slogan applies to both sexes: “n*gga/b*tch please! pump your brakes”
all that to say, you dont have to be completely in love with a group of ppl or overly accommodating to them to shy away from being labeled with ____-ist or ____phobic. the second you let your fears, ignorance, uneasy feelings about that group cause you to disregard or disrespect said group, thats when its a problem.
“m completely comfortable with members of the LGBT community. the sight of 2 gheys making out in public is just as disgusting to me as 2 heteros — im an equal opportunity hater of PDA.”
Co-sign. The above has been an issue in my eight year relationship. Get a room!
“I think its one thing for a heterosexual woman to desire a heterosexual man (and even hope to have heterosexual children, esp sons) and is entirely another to hate or dismiss homosexuals (man or woman) and their cause. ”
In my rambling comment about my personal “coming-to-terms” with a different sexualily, I forgot to add this point. I think in a lot of cases, “homophobia” is mistaken for “being cautious” when it comes to Black women. I mean, is it homophobic for women to be cautious of a not-fully-heterosexual man if he is a potential mate of hers?
“…but i also have a problem with the gheys who think all heteros are an “experience” away from being a turned out homo ho”
thats the thing. does one random experience make someone gay or bisexual? i mean, we all know of gay man who have had hetero sex (and even kids) before, and we’d never actually call them straight or even bi. what doesn’t it work the other way around?
“what doesn’t it work the other way around?”
Terrific question. Except it should be “why” instead of “what” but….yeah, I know, I know…#nitpicking*.
“Question: Should I “why deez” or “nitpick deez”, Champ?
if you have sex with members of the same sex you are homosexual at the moment and any other moments where homosexual behavior is occurring, yes. you may not be gay (which is more a term used for the “lifestyle” being in relationships, more than jsut sexual, of the same sex) but you are homosexual. the same goes for a “gay” man who engages in heterosexual acts–he’d be “hetero” for that moment and any other subsequent moments.
and i choose not to be with some one who has been in homosexual acts or is/way GAY. that doesnt make me homophobic lol. that just means i want to be in a relationship with a heterosexual man who only has ever had heterosexual desires.
“but at the same time, i dont want a man who has homo tendencies or is likely to be seen on the cover of “Black Men on the DL Digest”. why?? because EYE am a hetero sista who wants a hetero brotha. that doesnt make me homophobic, that just makes me allergic to bullsh*tting *ss ninjas who are confused about their sexuality. either be a ghey or be a straight — dont do both, at least not with ME.”
THIS.
#thatisall
p.s. champie– you had me at “cognitive dissonance”. i wonder who youve been
sleeping withtalking to lately…deez
Ahhh, Black homophobia…it’s so effin’ complicated. But it’s all homophobia no matter how homophobes try to spin it. Phobes always try to find these scientific or conspiratorial reasons to justify that they simply don’t like gays. As if being gay is contagious and easily picked up like curse words. What sucks more is that I have to constantly disclaim that I’m not gay and will shag your sister with the quickness before I can do battle with these douchebags.
However, I do understand when I hear things like correlations being made between a Black male actor’s success in Hollywood and that role he played years back where he was gay or dressed in drag. While knowing damn well that homosexuality is not some threat to Blackness and a man should be able to play whatever roles he wants, to see that pattern in action is awfully disturbing. Like is there a gun to our brothers’ heads for nefarious reasons?
Our women’s feelings though? Besides the religious bullsh*t (which should never be an argument since it ain’t based on facts), maybe they feel it takes away from a man’s ability/responsibility to protect them. “Ah, this queer *ss man, he ain’t strong!”
I have a whole lot on this subject, but I’m drawin’ a blank now so I can’t offer the more targeted stuff. Bottom line: our people are just that insecure.
*see the name up top, it’s been a long time, y’all!
welcome back and sh*t
Welcome back! I like all that you said.
Is homophobia wrong? I don’t know…is being scared of “niggas” wrong? Again, don’t know. Here’s my story.
Prior to moving to Atlanta…yeah…the whole gay men thing was not something that could be stomached. Moved into my current place…and voila life lessons on tap. Later I would find out that my neighbors, two black men living as a couple, would help open my mind. Being from the country means knowing your neighbors. So…yeah…I wouldn’t hesitate to sit down outside and drink my jack and coke on the “common area patio” with them. Finally asked if they were gay…they confirmed. I said some insensitive shat…they began to school me on the fact that every gay man doesn’t want every man that comes across their path…one of them even put his foot on it and said “don’t nobody want you”. We developed a friendship…I met more of their friends that came over to just drink on the patio too. One of those friends is like a big brother to me. Went out with them one night and had to stay at “big brother’s” place because I was too drunk to drive home. I calmly asked him not to try to fcuk me while I was sleep. That really hurt his feelings…his reaction cemented our “brothers” status. Back to the neighbors…you know…the ones that said all gay men are not after every man. Yeah…so one night I’m over drinking with one half of the gay life partner relationship folk thingy while the other one is traveling for work and we are just plastered. Next thing I know…ol boy is like come look at his laptop. We were talking about the HOA moments before…so I’m like just turn it around and show me whatever you want me to see. I’m thinking he found a new lawn service person he wanted me to comment on…he “beckons” for me to come over again…after telling this dude to just turn the damn computer around a few more times…I get tired and walk around the table to see what this dude thinks I must see. Porn…no sense in sugar coating it…he asks me if it makes me horny…I’m looking at ol boy in disgust because my naive azz didn’t catch on earlier…he tells me to pull out my dcik…
At this point I’m truly dissapointed. So much was wrong…he was thinking about cheating on his partner of numerous years with his next door neighbor, once upon a time his words were “every gay man don’t want every man…don’t nobody want you”, and he violated my trust. Nope…I didn’t have to restrain myself from beating his azz…I actually felt sorry for him…he’s the reason gay men have such a hard time. From all I could tell…alcohol erases guilt all the extreme shat he is capable of. I told his partner about it…no reaction. But this is from a man that left his wife and kids to be with a man…they are a match made in heaven. Both don’t know if they want to operate on testosterone on estrogen at any given moment.
So yeah…I’m very open minded…not homophobic at all…but I can understand why some folk are. My personal experience with gay black males has not been perfect as per my neighbors. But their friends…their close friends…are some of the best people I have ever met.
Touchy subject…
@atltx
Damn that sh*t was nuts!! I was all into the story, you told it so well, lol. That was definitely messed up of dude to violate your friendship and trust and such but at the same time, he was testing you and I would suppose that’s how a lot of guys that had a curiousity to begin with got “turned out” lol.
I have a confession…and I can’t believe I’m outing myself over the inernets. For so long…I’ve hidden the fact that I am on the down low. I mean…him “testing” me…it really awakened these natural carnal urges to let my true self out. So…without further ado…I feel as if though I am a nice looking butch lesbian (they do exist) with a built in strap on…trapped in a man’s body. WHEW…it felt so good to get that off my chest. Bwahaha For real though…I envy gay women…but ugly butch women HATE my ass. I still don’t understand that to this day…they act like they will knuck if you buck…especially the big ones…I had to run from a few back in the day.
“I have a confession…and I can’t believe I’m outing myself over the inernets. For so long…I’ve hidden the fact that I am on the down low. I mean…him “testing” me…it really awakened these natural carnal urges to let my true self out. So…without further ado…I feel as if though I am a nice looking butch lesbian (they do exist) with a built in strap on…trapped in a man’s body.”
For serious, until you started laughing, I felt like this was an Oprah-like VSB bonding moment. Like, I thought you were for real and this woulda went down in history or some sh*t. lol
why did I think this was a real confession too LMAO!
Well. D*mn. That’s all kinds of messed up…No words.
I normally don’t read long post since I am at school, but this was a good story.
I actually felt sorry for him…he’s the reason gay men have such a hard time.
hmmm i feel like this could happen to ANYONE though. its quite possible he wasnt attracted to you when he first met you. he might have been turned off by your rude homophobic-like comments. perhaps over time he got to know you and you became more attractive to him. do you know the whole story?? you just dismiss him as being the stereotypical gay man you think is always out to hit on EVERY straight guy he sees.
regardless of gender or sexual orientation, ppl do stupid things to jeopardize their relationships. they put themselves on the line, even for ppl theyre not totally attracted to, just to feel wanted and/or fulfill some sexual desire. often times it has little to do with the other person but everything to do with the person considering cheating or making a move on some unsuspecting “friend”.
i cant help but look past the homosexual aspect of this story and look to the “what was going on this man’s life/mind that caused him to go after a friend and neighbor, some one who could very easily expose his indiscretions to his partner?” i see this as something much bigger and more important than sexual orientation
1. To hell with a stereotype…what I described was reality. By the way…stereotypes exist for a reason…there is a small bit of truth in them all. This couple’s friends prove that the stereotype is most often not valid.
2. I don’t care what the hell you got going on at home…this here shat was foul. If your relationship is that bad…kick rocks. Oh…I get it…I should be concerned about my “friend’s” well being right? No ma’am…he lost that privelage when he referenced my dang a lang. Remember this after you’ve been wronged by a person…you can’t get mad at a tiger for attacking it’s trainer…that’s what they do…attack shat. Anyway…I’m just trying to keep the piece in our building now…if a job takes me elsewhere and i have to sell or mail my keys (values of small condos = price for a new mid grade nissan sentra)…fcuk em both.
clearly youre on the defensive because youve got borderline homophobic disorder, but i wasnt saying what happened to you was RIGHT. what i am saying is i highly doubt it has SH*T to do with dude being gay and everything to do with other human circumstances. just like you got pissed at him for coming at you foul. your human instinct and right to feel however you feel. he has the right to feel however he feels. hasnt got a damn thing to do with where either of you stick your d*cks.
Your passion kinda turned me on…i feel you on the life circumstances part. I still consider the couple as friends…even though one of them tried to go down the hershey highway on my azz. I’m far from being homophobic…simply because I know who I am. Now what?
this line…
“I calmly asked him not to try to fcuk me while I was sleep”
…made me spit out my hot chocolate. thanks
not surprising @ the come on..not saying hetro men cannot be cool wit to an extent or even friends to an extent with homosexual men but ummmmm they are after all testosterone driven, whether the conquest is male or female or both…thats why the close association is very tricky and could make one wonder, why be @ a buffet if you not eating?
Your story doesn’t move me at all. Replace it with a man and a woman (boyfriend and girlfriend) living together and you with a woman and the same thing could have happened.
You become good friends with the couple next door, hang out with them. Girl goes away, you’re over one time and the guy makes a move on you.
People who want to cheat are people who want to cheat. Whether they are attracted to men or women is immaterial. Your story just shows that gay people can be just as bad as straight ones.
Nothing special here.
They were supposed to be friends…that’s what you are missing
I’m not missing anything. The point of this story is to somehow show that there is something fundamentally wrong with homosexual people, that they cannot be trusted, no matter how friendly. That overtures of friendship are just pretexts to get into your pants.
This story falls flat because it could just have easily have been a heterosexual couple. It does not illustrate anything new about human nature and only serves to stereotype a group of people.
Nevermind…I understand your personality…do you.
Homophobia, discrimination, and just general idiocy towards gayness is stupid. However it’s insulting to assume the most effective way to convey this thought is by drawing a parallel between Gay rights and the Black experience.
They are not the same
Gay rights and the entire Black experience? No.
Gay rights and the civil rights movement? Yes.
Why we’d want to be isolated in our misery and struggle, I will never know? Other peoples have suffered too.
And shouldn’t we be drawing on those similarities to help others understand instead of whining about how we don’t want to be lumped in with them. Because that’s a form of discrimination as well.
“Gay rights and the civil rights movement? Yes.”
Actually, I think “still no”. We’re both fighting for civil rights, but I still think the movement is entirely different. To me, it’s not about not wanting to lumped into their group because frankly, we’re lumped in no matter what we do as gay groups and Black groups can overlap…there are Black gay folks after all. Which actually brings me to my point. Don’t you believe a Black gay person can face different types of discrimination and struggles, even within each group? That’s why I don’t like to lump them together. Not because I don’t want to be associated with gay folks, but because I believe lumping them together is belittling to both struggles as they take very different methods to solve.
@Cheekie
believe lumping them together is belittling to both struggles as they take very different methods to solve.
That doesn’t mean we should not use what information we’ve learned over generations about the proper treatment of fellow human beings. Yes, they are different. Yes, we are still fighting. But why not learn from our struggle to help another struggle that effects a sizable amount of our people who are still fighting in terms of our racial struggle? People always want all these struggles to be mutually exclusive like it takes away from what’s important. Like mentioning them two in the same sentence spits on MLK’s grave or something… People are act like that mentioning anything with racial struggle, will cause it to be ignored… Basically, the “what about me?!?!” complex… it just smells like that to me… Why does it have to be that way? We all know the long lasting impact of the racial struggle, so what makes people feel like mentioning anything else will have it forgotten?
thank you for saying what I was trying (and failing at the whole eloquence thing) to say
“That doesn’t mean we should not use what information we’ve learned over generations about the proper treatment of fellow human beings.”
I actually agree with this. But, I think we’re talking about two different levels here. While I agree that to some extent, they can be compared, I only agree they can be compared to the most general extent. What I have beef with is the whole “Black folks don’t have it as bad as gay folks” type of bullsh*t that gay rights activists use to defend their cause (which is also, my cause, yet I don’t stoop to that defense because frankly, it ain’t even called for. There is way more of a defense than some “Who has it worse” contest).
People always want all these struggles to be mutually exclusive like it takes away from what’s important. Like mentioning them two in the same sentence spits on MLK’s grave or something… People are act like that mentioning anything with racial struggle, will cause it to be ignored… Basically, the “what about me?!?!” complex…
So, so, so well put! Man, y’all have been talking your articulations and intelligence pills this morning!
Don’t you believe a Black gay person can face different types of discrimination and struggles, even within each group?
Yes. But the point I’m trying to make is that instead of drawing parallels, most people are trying VERY hard to make a distinction. There are similarities and there are differences. I don’t see too many people pointing out the former.
The no struggle following the civil rights movement will ever be that intense. It’s been done already.
“Yes. But the point I’m trying to make is that instead of drawing parallels, most people are trying VERY hard to make a distinction.”
I getcha. I understand this from the vantage point of Black folks who don’t agree with gay rights and make the distinction, but I’m not speaking for those who do believe in gay rights and make also make the distinction. I just think it is ineffective to compare the two as a defense because it becomes this “I got it worse than you! No! I do!” contest that is really off-putting and takes away from the overall cause, IMO.
welcome and sh*t
For all of you who aren’t quite comfortable with homosexuality, it’s ok that you feel that way.
I don’t agree but let’s call a spade a spade. If you’re a homophobe, you’re a homophobe. It’s ok but don’t act like you’re doing homosexuals a favor.
by saying it’s ok for homosexuals to be themselves (as long as they don’t do it too much or around you or your family) while advocating for the denial of their right to get married or be affectionate in public with the person they love or in any other way experience the happiness that’s supposed to be available to everyone.
You’re still condoning the systematic discrimination of an entire people and that makes you a bigot.
I don’t agree but let’s call a spade a spade. If you’re a homophobe, you’re a homophobe. It’s ok but don’t act like you’re doing homosexuals a favor.
i love this comment like a fat kid loves cake*.
*and by fat kid i mean “fat girl” meaning “me”. and by cake i mean ice cream
I have to co-sign this statement… wholeheartedly.
Well, I can say that my vajayjay and John Mayer’s d**k have something in common: they are NOT politcally correct,lol. Doesn’t matter how much I support the gay effort by making it rain at the local lezzie bar, I do not have to accept not-quite-hetero behavior in my panties. Sorry, I see no cognitive dissonance with this.
I can’t speak for other women, but I’m not homophobic. I’m DL-aphobic, lol. There’s something about the spector of the DL man that gives a lot of straight women shivers at night. Especially growing up in and living in one of the “hot spots” like DC or Atlanta. Funnily enough, those places are also hot spots for Black women with HIV. Now, I’m not saying that the numbers directly correlate, but it’s a message plays through your head right about the time a guy does something less than “manly”. Then you’re sitting there going, “Was that beep I just heard the microwave or my gaydar going off on this fool?” And I can say from experience that a lot of times our defense against a possible DL swindle is to ensure that our men are hyper-masculine (you can see the potential holes in this method).
Women look at DL dudes the same way men look at hoes: we just don’t want to end up married to one and looking the dayum fool. Then you got your girls talmbout, “Guurrl, Kilo-lo found her dude in the shower with another man. I knew that bama was sweet – she was just desperate to have a man and now look at her.” This does not necessarily make the woman a homophobe.
I can’t speak for other women, but I’m not homophobic. I’m DL-aphobic, lol.
**filed under “things women say when they don’t want to just admit their homophobia”***
file deez.
“Women look at DL dudes the same way men look at hoes: we just don’t want to end up married to one and looking the dayum fool.”
I said the exact same thing earlier!
To my linear and literal mind, how can anything be more “manly” than two men. It stands to reason that the more men who are involved, the more “manly” something must be.
“To my linear and literal mind, how can anything be more “manly” than two men. It stands to reason that the more men who are involved, the more “manly” something must be.”
Oooh, *dap* for this comment.
A lil late to the party but so apropos nonetheless LOL I have to say I am not homophobic in the least but I still can’t help but wonder if there is something in the water these days!!!
rainbow kool-aid?
and by rainbow i just mean red and blue mixed together
“and by rainbow i just mean red and blue mixed together”
So, purple, then? I guess that explains why folks thought the purple TellyTubbie was gay. That, and he carried a purse that, ironically, looked like it was on sale at Rainbow clothing store.
If you mean something in the water bringing forth “so many gays,” it’s simply that a) there’s that many more people on the planet and b) there’s more freedoms and awareness and more inspiration for all people to be themselves.
I hear things like “there are no gays in Iran” or so-called conscious Blacks saying there were no gays in Africa…as if it never occurred to these ppl that gays are there, always existed, but they kept their orientation under wraps to keep from being persecuted and killed!
Perhaps if more conversations like this were held then there would be a better understanding on everybody’s part. If we allow ourselves to be real and honest then we can all realize that homophobia, like racism, just comes from a lack of understanding and perspective.
Hell, i’m gay and it pisses me off to know end when I see these white men and women from the HRC get up and wanna compare their struggle to the struggle of African Americans. Honestly, your branding sucks and your PR is crap, that’s why PROP 8 passed.
If they want to be like the Civil Rights movement then they need to make some moves like the movment and galvanize a nation to their cause. You do that by showing you are no different than any other man or woman and you just want live your dream of life, liberty, and pursuit of happiness.
Finanlly, I think any rapper, athlete, black male superstar who says something gay and quickly follows it up with “no homo” should sit in a gay a** time out and a read a d*mn book b/c clearly their uneducated a** just said some gay sh*t.
“Finanlly, I think any rapper, athlete, black male superstar who says something gay and quickly follows it up with “no homo” should sit in a gay a** time out and a read a d*mn book b/c clearly their uneducated a** just said some gay sh*t.”
This made me chuckle.
welcome and sh*t (i think)
@idubbs
“Finanlly, I think any rapper, athlete, black male superstar who says something gay and quickly follows it up with “no homo” should sit in a gay a** time out and a read a d*mn book b/c clearly their uneducated a** just said some gay sh*t.”
LOL. This was funny. I think this circles back to basis of Champs post that black men are extremely homophobic but they’re OPEN about it. There’s no secret there. They wear it like a badge – maybe as a testament to their “un-gayness”. Its black women who claim to be so down with the “movement” but in actuality whether they admit or not (or even know it or not), are just as much if not more homophobic than black men.
we can all realize that homophobia, like racism, just comes from a lack of understanding and perspective.
The sooner we get to this realization WORLDWIDE, the better we will all be.
Where’s PJ today???
Another thing I find corny about our community is that we can say things like “pimps are born not made” yet somehow gays are easily manufactured.
This comment just made me burst out into a second fit of laughter after already dying laughing at my silly coworker.
Oh, and welcome back, homie.
Yo, Champster, where’s the post picture? I mean, I’m imagining you deciding to skip the post picture today so you won’t be caught Googling “gay men checking out straight men” or some sh*t.
But, what’s the real reason?
@ Cheekie…
*comatose @ this comment….
Coming so soon after a holiday (hint, not President’s Day), this post makes me go “Hmmm.”*
* My browser says this is misspelled however its suggestions for correcting it are even more hilarious: Hm mm, Hm-mm, Hammy, Hummer, and Hummed.
I was originally trying to craft a response to this post that either didn’t expose or justified what according this post and many of the comments amounts to ambivalent homophobia but I can’t possibly write such a response honestly. Do I think homosexuals deserve the same rights and respect as anyone else…absolutely! Am I comfortable when a gay couple starts kissing in my presence….not really. While I don’t think that technically makes me homophobic (I’m not AFRAID of gay people) I don’t guess there’s a word that defines being not quite comfortable with them.
My acceptance has been challenged on multiple occasions when people close to me who had been publicly living as straight revealed to me that they were indeed gay. One was a friend for whom I acted as maid of honor in her wedding who left her husband to be with a woman. I still try to be a good friend to her, but I don’t accept her invitations to attend her yearly lesbian society social because I recognize that I’m still not completely comfortable with that lifestyle. (also I don’t really see the point in me paying good money to go to a social where it’s pretty much guaranteed that no one there will be my type (i.e. male) but that’s another issue) So if that feeling makes me homophobic then that must be what I am and I don’t think anyone jumping on me for my views and feelings would change that. Maybe I’ll get to complete acceptance one day, but today I’m not there.
I think this is a normal feeling. There was a time when I felt uncomfortable if a heterosexual couple started kissing or engaging in other public displays of affection in my presence. After years of it, and seeing it in tv, movies, etc, it is normal – depending on the scenario, there is still a slight twinge of . . . should I be here, avert my eyes, just ignore it . . . but it goes away.
Being from the San Francisco Bay Area, I couldn’t become homophobic. There could be a male orgy occurring in the middle of the street and the only thing that would cross my mind is “I hope that I put enough change in the parking meter because I don’t need another ticket”. I’m comfortable with the whole LGBT scene. As long as someone doesn’t get out of line with me and invade my personal space. Gay men make great friends, but they can be full of high drama & catty tomfoolery. Oddly enough, I am opposed to changing the definition of marriage but I strongly support civil unions with benefits somewhat similar to marriage.
Not to pick on you, but if it walks like a duck and quacks like a duck. . . it is a duck.
If you take something (marriage) and create something else that for all intents and purposes is exactly the same, then they are the same. All that keeps you from labeling both “marriage” is some argument you’ve yet to resolve inside you.
If I’m wrong then answer this, what benefit or aspect of marriage do you feel should be withheld from same sex couples who enter into these augmented civil unions?
Can someone please explain the high drama catty tomfoolery aspect of male homosexuality? I know all gay men are not like this but let’s be real…there is an overabundance of that type of behavior in that community and I don’t understand it. Maybe if I understood this more I’d be more accepting of it…but I don’t deal well with drama and extraness. I don’t really care that much about what they do behind closed doors so I suppose the majority of my discomfort comes from my inability to deal with the “extra” behavior.