There’s a fairly popular misconception and myth that most men are commitment phobes. We’ve somewhat dispelled it here by clearly outlining, stenciling, and color-coordinating that it isn’t that men are scared of commitment. Heavens no. We’re merely scared of committing to the wrong person, which I’ve gathered is something women aren’t so much afraid of. Seems that women are more afraid of losing out on the investment they’ve put in, even if it has yielded not so positive returns. Either way, there’s a disconnect there. AT&T.
But there is a fairly silent minority of women out there who have experienced a certain kind of commitment phobic man: the man who’s afraid of too much like right. While I generally frown upon women’s insistence that men are intimidated by their stature, career, Lladro collection, or faux Faberge egg prints (it’s never true ladies), there is one area where some men just might be intimidated. And that’s when a man meets the woman he never thought he’d meet before he’s ready to have met her.
Allow me to set the scene. Oh, you over there…could you turn out the lights, and light a candle. Tonight I’m in a romantic mood…girl let’s take…wait…where am I.
Sorry.
*ahem*
Guy is out at a swanky Detroit River cruise down Woodward Avenue populated by the kind of people who actually believe it’s possible to take a Detroit River Cruise down Woodward Avenue. We shall call him Guy. He sees a darling woman across the way and saunters over in the non-suspect way possible to said gal. We shall call her Gal. Guy and Gal strike up a convo that moves with amazing fluidity. I mean, this convo is fluid, Jack. Lighter. Wiper. Brake. It’s all of those wrapped up in one. They hit it off instantly and realize how many interests they share. Now guy is caught completely off-guard (as is actually how most of us end up with girlfriends. We’re rarely looking, we just happen to find the one of you that throws us off of our game and we don’t fight it. Real talk.).
Guy makes the determination that results in more marriages in the Black community: she’s different.
[SIDENOTE: Seriously, have you all realized that when a guy is in love with a woman, one of the first descriptors he uses when somebody asks why is "different?" We're all looking for the snowflakes that women all swear to be. We like snow. Which makes sense as to why we move so much of that white stuff.]
Guy is finding himself swooning over Gal. But there’s just one problem: he’s 25. And he’s not ready to be locked down. But he sees so much potential with her, except he knows that there’s no way he could be faithful right now because he’s got a few degrees and lives in Washington, DC. But the problem is, this woman is too much like right. She’s not only attractive, but she’s the marrying type. Something about her gives him insight into what his future could look like. He sees the picket fence, 4.6, 2.5 children and rottweiler-dalmation thoroughbred.
And Guy nuts up. He’s not ready for the future, but he knows if he continues to date Gal, he’s going to end up married. He’s got too much life to live and too many things to do before he’s ready to settle down for good. And be clear, I think a lot of us know, or at least suspect, when we’re going to end up married to a woman. If it doesn’t make it to that point, it’s as much of a surprise to some of us as it is to you all.
Point is, I actually believe in this. It’s part of the reason why some women end up messing with guys who go back and forth so much and cause so much relationship drama. The woman is ready to bet the house and the man knows that he should bet the house but he’s got one foot in a world that he’s afraid to miss. And it’s not always about chasing women. Sometimes it’s just the freedom of it all. But it happens all the time. Guy finds the different Gal, realizes it, but just can’t give her what she needs…but hopes she’ll still be around when he’s ready to move on to stage 2.
While this doesn’t pertain to all women – let’s be real, all of you all aren’t the “immediate proposal” types – I’m aware that this has happened to plenty of women…and men. Let’s be real, it’s scary as hell to realize that you’re staring the future in the face. Especially when you’ve spent so much time either assuming that you’d never find the exact woman you were looking for or never believed she could possibly exist so you settled for a makeshift Lauren London with good genes and an iPhone with a Wikipedia app.
I mean there’s a reason Guy named their album The Future, right? What does that have to do with the price of loincloth in the Bering Straits? I don’t know either.
Anyway, what say you, menfolks, are there women you’ve been intimidated by because she seemed too right? And ladies, do you think a man has ever dipped out because he couldn’t handle the fact that you two were too well suited for one another?
Is there a heart in the house? If so, stand up.
-VSB P aka THE ARSONIST aka TANGLE JIG P aka SHUGGIE JACKSON aka GIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIRL HE A 3
***Also, check out Panama’s post on Guyspeak, “Do You Have An Emotional Tampon, Ladies” and read some of P’s answers to about maid of honor speeches, pedicures, and all around gangstatry. ****
Tag me in! I think I’m first!
I think this is the realest sht you ever wrote P. I’m 25 and I’m kinda in love and sht (downplaying the depth of my feelings as to not look soft on the Internet). I’ve been dating my girl since august and I could see myself with her for the rest of my life. That is some scary sht. I guess I’ll just ride it out
Thats enough of that soft sht. *puts on head phones and puts Kush and OJ on repeat*
Just a minute too late
I begrudgingly cosign this. Not so much the intimidation aspect, but more of a “Damn, it figures I’d meet you just before I’m set to move 1/2 way across the country.” type way.
Now I will say that I met what appeared to be a nice prospect a couple of weeks before I moved cross country the first time. But the world keeps spinnin.
This happens to me all the freaking time. I am set to leave the US for France soon and what happens? Mr. Seemingly Perfect walks into the picture. In three weeks I won’t even be here, so its not worth it.
I’m with you. No need to start something you can’t realisticly finish.
Dude…story of my 2010 year.
Ditto on that MzPW!! But 2010 was a good year! Hehehehe.
i’d wager that happens to all kinds of people. that’s why i never move anymore.
okay, that’s not true.
Ya know. I’ve met and dealt with a multitude of women. Some different-ish and some not so different but I can honestly say that I don’t have a “one that got away”. Could be a selection issue. I could also just be a tad bit blind. Eh….i’ll go with the former on this one.
And ladies, do you think a man has ever dipped out because he couldn’t handle the fact that you two were too well suited for one another?
This has never happened to me because my relationships have always had problems, hence we were not suited for each other lol. You could argue that I broke up with one of my exes because he said he wanted to marry me—-just not yet…..but truthfully, we had scores of other problems so we definitely needed to break up irregardless of the desire to marry each other.
Anyway, what say you, menfolks, are there women you’ve been intimidated by because she seemed too right?
I’m not sure I believe this is a male-only issue. Recently I started to think about a guy I really liked. And as the mind wanders, I thought about how well suited we seemed to be for each other. I like him, he likes me. And when I realized all of this, I got scared. I panicked. You see, I generally go around liking unavailable/unattainable men (as Champ can attest to my years of dating history lol)…so when I finally found a guy who pretty much had what I was looking for….and he was into me too…. I was scared sh!tless. I’m not sure why exactly. I think about/want to be married all the time. I love weddings. And families. I want kids ASAP. You would think I’d wanna get a move on. But once my mind turned into, “I think this could really be The One,” I was not a happy camper. I started thinking, “So this is how it all ends, huh?” It wasn’t that I liked him any less. I think the thought just scared me. I’m thinking about tabling further development of that relationship. Too scary. I’m feeling anxious just talking about it.
All that being said, one day I hope I will have a Harry Moment from When Harry Met Sally: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zMo36SfyQhw At the end of the movie, Harry finally realizes that he wants to spend the rest of his life with Sally, and says that he wants ‘the rest of his life’ to get started as soon as possible. *swoon* I dunno how Harry got to that point, but I hope I do whenever I find the right person.
I agree with you Liz that it’s not limited to men…
While in college, I went on a weekend getaway to NY (from AZ) to visit my boyfriend and he proposed. I said yes. I thought he was the heaven-sent match for me (flaws and all). Then I started thinking that we were too young with “too much life to live and too many things to do” before making this adult decision. Plus, I had my next few years mapped out and engagement wasn’t “scheduled” to happen for a few more years. So 30 minutes later, I was pull my “yes” back. Our relationship lasted a few months beyond that.
He recently found me on facebook after all these years, and I’m glad I made the decision I did because he religious views are too different from mine so heaven must not have sent that one.
I feel you. My ex said he didn’t want to get married until he got his bachelor’s degree. He was supposed to graduate in 2002. He didn’t get his degree until 2010. I am happy I saw through that BS reason early enough or I’d be piiiissssed by now.
I think a lot of people suffer from Or Best Offer syndrome. They don’t wanna give anything up for fear that a better offer will come by and they’ll miss out on it. Those people are also immature and need to get with the program lol.
2010?
http://i640.photobucket.com/albums/uu121/mifoster6/comment-friday-damn.jpg
LMAOOO. He was on medical leave. Which to me should have told him sh*t was not gonna resolve quickly yet I was still down for the cause. SMH.
Yessssss! I know so many guys who put people in a holding cell waiting for “or best offer”.
Liz, you killin me this week! I can’t stop laughing @ “My ex said he didn’t want to get married until he got his bachelor’s degree. He was supposed to graduate in 2002. He didn’t get his degree until 2010.” …I’m not laughing at when he finally got his degree, it’s just the way you wrote it or something made it funny as heck.
+1
GIRL. He wasn’t foolin nobody. At the time he said this to me, he had only finished two years of school and had failed to finish a third year after two attempts. he must have thought i was booboo the fool. smh.
I don’t think that’s always a BS reason. For a smart brotha, if we’re going to love you right, and marry you, we need to also be able to provide for a potential family. Love don’t pay bills baby, and if he thought the only way to secure your security together is to have a degree and the ability to provide, then in his mind, he was doing the right thing by you. (note: I can’t get behind him on the 2002-2010 time span.. but I know ish happens).
***VSBglitter****
but i take issue with any man who thinks “the only way to secure your security together is to have a degree and the ability to provide.” if he seriously thinks this is THE ONLY way to have a successful marriage with me, then we got problems. It takes a lot more than that, and mostly these are not tangible things like money and a house. Love doesn’t pay the bills, but successful marriages are not built out of zero balances.
I agree whole-heartedly with you Sista. The thing is, I’m 27, very smart, but am just now (and still) LEARNING that lesson. I think most men even in our most earnest of attempts, tend not to fully learn that lesson until it’s… too late. SMH. I had this convo w/ my girlfriend’s BFF (do people still say bff?): Men learn the how to’s in relationships late in life. We just do. Even if we have both moms and pops in our life, men learn the subtleties of building relationships on a different curve, often to our timely loss of a good black woman.
Cosign.
Liz, girl, that last line is tantamount to a hip hop quotable!!! “Love doesn’t pay the bills, but successful marriages are not built our of zero balances.” I love it. You’ve inspired a poem. Off to the lab…..
OBO will kill your relationships. Believe it or not, a lot of dudes carry that into marriage also. Worse mindset to have.
*Worst*
I’m trippin
i loooove that movie. one of my favs. as a writer, i appreciate the script so much. *hearts*
and i also loved your tumblr about it. hilarious. (i looked for it when i was at the library that day too. smh)
LOL! Aww, thanks
Yes, the reason she had the script on her was because we are writing a script together. p.s. she’s also my backup baby mama I mentioned downthread! lol
writing a script? nice! i’m sure it is a rom com. lol
lol yup!
You know I feel ya, on When Harry Met Sally, Muze. That script probably has some of the BEST and most natural dialogue of all time.
And that “as soon as possible” line is definitely in my top five greatest lines of all Kanye West time.
Co sign this whole comment. It’s kind of sad because I know if ” Mr. Perfect” came to me right now, I would run the other way
“…so when I finally found a guy who pretty much had what I was looking for….and he was into me too…. I was scared sh!tless.”
I’ve most definitely been there before. After the fact, I came to the realization that, I’m so used to navigating the BS that I get from guys that when the “real thing” presented itself, I didn’t know how to respond to it. It was almost unnatural to deal with a guy who wasn’t about playing games so I was in unfamiliar territory which caused me to clam up. That lead to a host of other issues for me. I’m reminded of a line from Two Can Play That Game…”I’ve been hurt before, so I’m like really careful with my heart”
interesting perspective from you ladies on that accord since it’s largely assumed that the reason why we can’t get it together as a community or at least as young urban professionals is because all of us men are out here taking advantage of women and not wanting to lock it down b/c of too many options. but here we have more than one woman (and i’m sure the numbers are much higher than most would acknowledge) admitting that they might not be the ones ready to lock it down.
men get bad press. or at the very least, we’re not EIC of major publications.
Don’t equate our fear of locking it down to us taking advantage of several men. Yall still take advantage of women, and that’s how those men cope with their commitment issue. Women who don’t want to lock it down are probably in some state of emotional limbo, dealing with it by over romanticizing things, excessive chick logic, being in denial, and/or eating lots of chocolate.
So, no you get all the bad press you deserve.
THIS.
i never said anything about women taking advantage of men. all i said was that there are a lot of women not ready to lock it down. stop projecting. lol
inference.
“here we have more than one woman (and i’m sure the numbers are much higher than most would acknowledge) admitting that they might not be the ones ready to lock it down.”
yeah, marriage is scary for everybody. it is, or should be, one of the biggest commitments a person will make in his or her life. yes, many women dream about their weddings from the time they understand what a wedding is, but when the rest of your life is staring you right in the face anyone would get a little nervous. especially if they’re young. i’ve been where liz is before…and then i met the one. like, on some corny movie type ish. we’re recently engaged too, btw (lol crazy! still can’t believe it). but the key is timing. mr/mrs right has to meet you at the right time. if my fiance had met me a couple years before he did, we probably wouldn’t be where we are now.
this topic is a human thing, not really gender specific.
awww, congrats!!
thank you!
mr/mrs right has to meet you at the right time
Very key. My story is somewhat similar to yours.
we’re alike in a lot of ways, huh? e-twins
Hey ladies. I barely caught this. I don’t like you two meeting up outside of Meech comments. I want to be a part of alllll the action.
noted
“I’ve most definitely been there before. After the fact, I came to the realization that, I’m so used to navigating the BS that I get from guys that when the “real thing” presented itself, I didn’t know how to respond to it. It was almost unnatural to deal with a guy who wasn’t about playing games so I was in unfamiliar territory which caused me to clam up. That lead to a host of other issues for me. I’m reminded of a line from Two Can Play That Game…”I’ve been hurt before, so I’m like really careful with my heart”
And that reminds of the sole line I remember from one of the only Tyler Perry movie I voluntarily sat through, “Why Did I Get Married,” where Michael Jai White said that some women have been meeting with the wrong types of guys for so long that they don’t know how to distinguish the good from the bad.
Yes, yes, yes! Just met this guy (well, re-met…we went to middle school and high school together but didn’t really run in the same circles) and we seem to be so sync’d up that it is starting to freak me out a bit. Definitely feeling anxious. And I believe its because I’m so used to dudes running game that whenever he does something nice/open/honest/heartfelt/exciting that I keep looking for that sign that tells me he’s full of ish. Every step of the way, I’ve been pleasantly suprised so for now, I’m just wading in carefully.
Sheesh! 680+ comments BEFORE noon?? This is how yall get down? Maybe I’m not as ready to un-lurk as I thought…
My gripe with the theory in this post (and forgive me if this has already been said since I didn’t scroll further and read all of today’s comments; mainly because my brain is still fried from taking part in the 1,276 comments on Tuesday’s post) is that all too often, I meet, read about, hear about, or talk to men and women who write this off as the sole reason for why a relationship didn’t work out. So, I’m a little partial to the “my-greatness-was-too-great so (s)he left” theory, mainly because more times than not, its a lie. Regardless of how “perfect” someone is, even the most perfect person in every way *points to self….DUH?!* possible is STILL not perfect for every guy or girl and I think good old fashion compatability and true love gets way to little credit or blame for why people do or don’t work out in the end. I mean, yes, of course its more than possible that some people truly do miss out on a “good thing” that was just right for them because they weren’t ready or were afraid to accept that they might actually BE ready to commit, but I think most times, when looking in retrospect, like REALLY looking, it’s not hard to find that while fear was a factor, it wasn’t the only one.
And maybe this just stems from the fact that I’m an endless believer that chick-flick style romance and love does exist and when people really do find “the one” very little can keep them from that person…but im just a mushball like that I guess..lol <3
SN: @Liz or anyone else on here who already has one…….how do you add a picture?
go to gravatar.com swign up for an acct. the email address u use for your acct should be used when you leave a comment here. then it will appear next to all your comments.
yall should post the instructions somewhere. I see this question all the time.
truuue. ill get to it. someday lol.
Its just that you are un-lurking at the same time everyone else is….
Very true. I can definitely see how VSB “live” events bring the lurkers out into the open in mass numbers every time
“Sheesh! 680+ comments BEFORE noon?? This is how yall get down? Maybe I’m not as ready to un-lurk as I thought…”
LOL I thought the same thing this mornin!
I can attest to this issue too Liz. There was a point in my life where I started dating this guy that just seemed too good to be true. He had pretty much all the qualities I wanted in a husband and then some. We got along great. Always had fun together. The list goes on. I really saw myself with this guy and thought “okay this could be it.”
One day he dropped a bomb on me and started talking about getting married. Not getting engaged and married in time, married like…next week.
Now what now!??!
We had been dating for like a month! I really thought this was unreal because I had made a joke about running away together and well…apparently he had already had that in his head.
But it wasn’t. And as a result I was straight up petrified. How does that even work?
With that said, this issue definitely does not only happen with guys…what I want to know is how to get around that.
Oh man. Maybe he was one of those serial monogamist addicts or something. That’s crazy. Most folks would know to pace themselves, even in the heat of an awesome relationship. For others, a lightning marriage does end up workin out for the long haul, but it’s risky to try it out.
I too wanna know how to get around it :/ Honestly, I got scared because this guy was also someone I had only considered dating for sport: I was just trying something new and different than my old habits. He may or may not be the one, I don’t know, but the possibility scares me to death.
Girl, I don’t know what it was. I guess he was just ahead of me in the relationship. I will say that it wasn’t like we had only known each other for a month because we had actually met 9 months before that but nothing happened sooner because I was with someone else. So maybe he had more time for his feelings to develop. I will say the reasoning he provided for wanting to marry me were legitimate and far from shallow, which I was able to deeply appreciate.
I am one of those people who like to pace things along on a timeline, he obviously wasn’t. I don’t knock those who get married really fast, because my parents definitely got married within 8 months of knowing each other…dated for 6 months, got engaged and then married 2 months later, but I felt I needed some more time. Like you said, it was just too risky for me and I’m Catholic so I don’t really support divorce.
Still working on figuring out how to get around it. Is this guy you speak of still around Liz? I think I was more scared because it had been so soon in the relationship and because I knew I actually felt like I belonged with him. Those kinds of realizations can be scary.
Also, the night before he talked about marriage I had a dream that he told me that he loved me for the first time. Now that’s freaky.
At the same time, those feelings of fright can be a sign that he’s not what you want. In a past relationship, I dated a guy who wanted to marry me but I was “scared.” He took me to look at rings and I purposely picked one that I knew he could not afford. In that same ‘ship I dreamed that he proposed and I ran away. Like full speed, olympic style sprint. LOL. Looking back, I know that fright was my subconscious telling me to keep it moving.
Yes, he’s still around. I’ve known him for years, actually, but the thought never crossed my mind until I started to spend more time with him (and we were both single at the same time). The more I felt comfortable around him, the scarier it got LOL! I won’t close the door completely, but I will proceed cautiously. maybe he isn’t what I want in the end, but I need more time to figure it all out.
You have the best dreams as warnings! I dream a lot too but they don’t really tell me what’s gonna happen lol.
I’m not mad at wanting to proceed cautiously at all! You gotta do what you gotta do. Hopefully it works out for the best in the end!
Lol I know! I should have listened to those dreams! I’m learning though. It’s a work in progress! Stay tuned! Lol!
@ Leelicious
A good man is really hard to find! And a hard man is “good” to find! (ole school humor)
If he’s a good man and you can see yourself spending the rest of your life with him, pray about it! Pray without ceasing for God to show you what path you should take.
I’ve got a few miles on you so I know that as you get older the pool of good men really shrink. When you are younger you think that there’s always another one coming! But trust me, after a while you look around and all of the good ones are taken!
Soooooo, if you find a man that can fill “most” of your requirements, and viceversa, workitout!
Thanks for the advice JanuaryBabe. I will definitely keep what you said in mind. A good man truly is hard to find. But don’t worry, he’s still around
Since I was confused about the situation and wasn’t sure what to think I put it in God’s hands. I pray about it every day and just go with the flow. It’s been working so far.
I don’t really have a list of requirements per se, I just look for qualities that are compatible with me and that I feel I can deal with. I gave up the “list” a long time ago. We will see how it all turns out. Pray for me girl.
This is not just a man problem women have these problems too. Women who have been hurt are scared that they are gonna get too trusting again and end up with mud on their face. I have seem to give myself to the unavailable I’m not ready to commit to you but let’s just play house negroes. I finally got this GOOD MAN looking me dead in my face and wiling to put up with my scattered brained a** and now I am scared as hell. I’m so use to chasing the unattainable intangible men that I don’t know how to respond to him. I’m also planning to move away myself…and he said that’s not even an issue I think its a matter of leaping out on faith and being honest with yourself. Think about WHAT you deserve.
P.S. WHEN HARRY MET SALLY IS THE BEST MOVIE EVER…
True!
****VSBGlitter for youuuu****
@ Purp!
See my post above to Leelicious! The same applies to you!
So, this really has nothing to do with this post (I’m mostly a lurker and I had to tell people who would understand haha) but today, while I was driving, I happened to notice the car next to me had a license tag that read “Panama J” I completely started freaking out when I saw that the driver was in fact a black male, but then I realized I was in Florida and there was no way you could possibly be here so randomly. Someone jacked your name….
Also, just for the sake of the post, I do that all the time, if I find out a guy likes me and we seem so “perfectly” suited to each other, I run in the oppsoite direction. I don’t really know why, maybe the fact that it seems too good to be true?
You’re right to have run the other way. It’s your intuition telling you, “No, not this one.” Years ago two black women wrote a book called “How to Marry a Black Man”. They said that when you meet “your type,” i.e., the perfect guy for you (so you think), run the other way! Women tend to do stupid things around the “perfect guy,” e.g., put up with his nonsense for too long, act silly, etc. because he’s so perfect. And, if he was so perfect, you’d be married to him already.
After I read that I thought about all of my silliness around the “perfect guy”. I stopped looking for “my perfect guy” and met my husband who turned out to be perfect (with a lot of faults) for me.
GG
i ????????? your story!!!!!
damn.. I think I might need to read this book.. I’m stuck on this “perfect guy” thing..
*slaps self into reality*
You know what, you’re right. In previous years when I thought I met a guy I could see myself settling down with, I put up with so much crap: disrespect, immaturity, etc….all because I thought he was the perfect guy and I felt he’d figure us out eventually. He didn’t. I wasted a lot of time (5 years!!!) waiting for him to come around too. I’m glad I finally saw the light though.
If this isn’t a episode out of Sex and the City. OOOPs I mean Girlfriends.
LOL!
…8 years……….the 8 most beautiful, taught, perky years. That was D U M B!
@j.ivy
LMAO! Yesss! Undoubtedly that’s why I had to pull the plug on my first relationship: he was wasting all my GOOD years. Unfortunately my inability to process the relationship’s teachable moments also wrecked the good years following the relationship :/ That’s why i tell young people: work on yourselves, ASAP! Get through your immature moments, learn from them. You will be so much more ahead of the game once you have figured it out!
co-sign.. its not cute to be 40 and just starting the process.. that’s just really behind schedule..
Nice avi!
So, get him under contract before you fall apart is the mission here?
Use your bait while it’s fresh so that if he passes, you can still catch other fish?
Get married before the stroke of midnight, before the coach turns back into a pumkin? Damn, fairy godmothers have been fcuking things up for years.
Y’all there ain’t no perfect man! And there ain’t no perfect woman! The key is to find someone that meets most of your “must haves” and some of your “nice to haves” and none of your “deal breakers!” ~~~ with a job and good credit! Ok, maybe you can work on the credit thing!
Cute is good but it gets old really fast! I think the most important thing is to “like” each other. Marry your best friend!
@januarybabe
If only that were so easy!! My best friends are not cooperating. I need to find some new ones lol
wooooow….who wrote the book?
“I stopped looking for “my perfect guy” and met my husband who turned out to be perfect (with a lot of faults) for me.”
I can definitely appreciate this. I think people feel so scared about relationships because that ain’t really who they need to be with! It sounds good and looks good to others, but somewhere inside you know you can’t look that MF in the face for 50 more days, let alone 50 years.
@ GG
I think I have this book…was it written by two black women & all colorful on the front with bright yellow and red ink? I left it back at my momma’s house…may need to take a trip home & go get it…
“Years ago two black women wrote a book called “How to Marry a Black Man”. They said that when you meet “your type,” i.e., the perfect guy for you (so you think), run the other way!”
Soooooo basically what this means is….. leave Mr. Jackson alone when I see him in NY???
@Snicklefritz
???????WELCOME???????
please stay and continue to post…
i LOVE that you go so hard w/ the welcoming stuff! it’s uber cute; and community-building.
*daps*
For real. Good job Yoles! We see you!
@Yoles
Yea, it is pretty sweet. All the newbies appreciate it!
Nice Avatar! I’m jealous of your boogie!
quite a few people have jacked my name. though in all fairness, it isn’t THAT odd a name so i can see how any ninja with any ties to Panama and blackness could come up with it. i’m just the one who makes it all look good.
That’s an interesting concept, meeting the right girl before the right time. I have a couple of friends that have experienced this. Both of them ended up breaking up with their girlfriends, and both of them regret it. I can hear the wistfulness in their voices when they talk about their lost loves. But the two guys were really young when they met their exes, and I don’t think they would have ended up achieving the goals that they have if they had decided to get married.
*murmurs*
great white buffalo, great white buffalo, great white buffalo, great white buffalo, great white buffalo, great white buffalo…..
Lol I had to google that! I did see Hot Tub Time Machine, I should have remembered that quote.
See, this is what men think. “I can’t take her along for the ride and get to the destination on schedule.” Women think, “WE can make it work and I hope we get there, but if not, then at least we’re together making each other better.”
I wonder when men get on that track or if they ever do. Not saying women have it all right in our thinking, but this is an area that I don’t quite get. I, too, have witnessed men with the “shoulda, coulda, woulda” mentality on the lost one. And it’s sad because they usually end up settling because they are always looking for that elusive “one who got away.”
For all the women out there, it don’t mean sh*t if you come across the right one at the wrong time.
Actually, I’m a little different. I’d like to meet a woman that knows I’m not perfect, yet can see enough good in me to want to be there with me as I work to get to where I want to be in life. And I hope that I can meet a woman whom I can do the same for in return.
It’s not fair to have to have all the ducks lined up before someone will even give you a shot. That’s how I feel I have to be sometimes. I know women I went to high school/college with who still tell me I’m a good man and how they wished they woulda paid me more attention back in the day—then they have to cut the convo short because the kid(s) they have with whatever Loser of the Month are sleepy/crying/hungry/need a diaper change. SMH
I feel the first paragraph. As far as the second, I somewhat agree with the first sentence. I agree that it’s not fair, but personally I want to have Huey, Dewey, and Louie straight before I find “the one”. I want to be the best that I can for her, and that’s part of the process. I understand (begrudgingly) that it might not happen like that, but ideally – at least for me – that’s what it’d be.
I don’t really see the need for that though. If don’t understand avoiding love until you finish college or buy a house, for example. Y’all make me feel like I’m a free-spirit or something, that just sounds so constricted and tight. I don’t think it’s realistic to believe you won’t meet someone special until that specific date and time. But again, that may be just the male perspective since you are the one’s expected to provide no matter what.
@WIP
I think it’s an excuse. A house and/or a degree are not qualifiers for marriage readiness. If everyone who had a degree was deemed ready for marriage, and got married once the degree was obtained, we’d be in a world of trouble with an even higher divorce rate or unhappy marriages. Same goes for home buyers (real estate market fail, anyone?). This is a cop out. Don’t fall for it. I think any man who cites this as an excuse really isn’t mature enough to be in a marriage. Run. Fast.
@Liz
One of the major reasons for divorce is $. You cant have romance w/o Finance and a degree helps(although no gurantee) with finance. Can i at least START my career and see how that works first? Now im not saying we cant be dating during this period im totally fine with that. Unless you are going to medschool or trying to get a PhD first then other degree programs and careers are not some 6+year journey where i am stringing the girl along.
@coldsweat3
People don’t divorce because they have too little funds. Even poor people get married. People’s divorcing over money almost always has to do with differing views on how they manage their income, and have not figured out a way to cooperate with each other for the betterment of their relationship. This is a symptom of selfishness and one’s inability to be mature enough to sacrifice for the betterment of their partner and/or marriage. So once again, ladies, if he’s talking about he needs a degree or house first: run. he is not in the frame of mind to be married (compromising, disciplined, selfless, sacrificial).
@ Liz
In my case, that’s not what I tell myself….That’s often what THEY (women) tell me, in one way or another.
Or at least that’s how their excuses sound to me.
Case in point: “You know, the right woman will be there for you *when it’s time*….” or “Just continue doing you and you’ll find her *in due time*….”
If I was really as good of a guy as some women think I am*, they’d be able to look over the fact that I don’t have the crib with 4 trucks in front of it yet.
*Honestly, I don’t think I’m that great of a guy, but hey….
@ Realest Leo,
““You know, the right woman will be there for you *when it’s time*….” or “Just continue doing you and you’ll find her *in due time*….””
It’s what people say when they run out of words and want to seem wise and helpful.
But yeah, that timing thing is a beast.
@TRL
To be honest, when people say “in due time” what they really mean is “when you grow up.” They may not view it that way, but that’s the gist of the sentiment. People told/tell me that too, so I am not pointing fingers. But, it takes an adult to really get invested emotionally in a relationship, and some of us just haven’t grown up yet. You yourself have said you have things to work on within yourself, so I would focus on those things. You wouldn’t even want a relationship at this time in your life anyway, as it would likely be dysfunctional until you’ve worked on yourself. I say this with love, TRL, because it’s something I have had to come to terms with myself recently. Hopefully I am not projecting on you, but thought I would share it because it helped me feel better about my situation, as well as feel less sorry for myself.
@ Liz
I didn’t take that as projecting, and I agree with what you’re saying.
However, in a way, the only way I could ever mature in one key area where I KNOW I need to (dating and relationships) is to actually find one. I can’t learn anything about how to treat a woman….by myself. lol
@TRL
LOL you’re right. Defiitely don’t sit on the sidelines. Dating does indeed take practice. Maybe try to date with the idea that it is an exercise, and not marriage-or-death. One of my issues in the past was that I felt i needed to date only to marry, so if he wasn’t automatically (my) marriage material, he needed to leave me the hell alone. But that left me with absolutely no dating experience. These days I am a little more open to dating because I know I need to learn more about what it is I like and dislike in men. Experience is only going to help in that situation. So, now I date men who aren’t as tall as I like them, or who aren’t as confident as I like them. Who aren’t as successful as I want them. They aren’t complete losers, but they have flaws and i am just trying to figure out if those flaws are something I can overlook because they have other redeeming qualities. I won’t know until I try. Afterall, you will never find the absolute perfect person. But you will find the perfect enough person for you, whose flaws you can manage within the confines of a relationship. Maybe try being a little more open to what you think you don’t want, if only for the experience. it’s not the end of the world to go on a few dates.
@ Liz
That’s what I try to do. But for me, dating in itself has always been so excruciatingly difficult (especially in the military)….it’s hard to practice with nobody to choose from.
I agree that nobody’s perfect. We’re all full of sh*t. It’s all about finding the person who has just enough sh*t that you can handle.
Oooh Liz, this makes a lot of sense!
@Liz
I would have to disagree with that. Thats not an excuse thats real, theres more to marraige than love(emotions) there is also responsibilty and if you have children which happens a lot to married folks there is even more responsibility, those things cost money!
I dont get it, if he cant provide we are bums and scrubs but if we say we need to get some stuff in order before we take on the responsibility of a wife and children we are making excuses. Im Confused?!?!?!
**VSBglitter*** and sh*t.
You are operating out of two extremes here: 1) he can’t provide so he’s a bum and 2) he won’t marry until he’s ballin out of control.
Many women will marry a man who can’t provide extremely. We are the Mistresses of Seeing Your Potential. Hell, we wouldn’t even be arguing this point if several women didn’t consider marrying a man before he got his house/degree/beamer/grad degree in order–because we take it under consideration.
I’m not saying love in the loveydovey romantic sense is what’s going to hold a relationship with a man who is degree-less or house-less. What I am saying is that you can get married with the intent to grow your lives together if you have a good sense of yourself, and you and your partner are willing to compromise enough to work together. Instead, a lot of men are going around here under the pretense that they need their MBA first, when really they’re just not ready for all that work and compromise and sacrifice. And by the way? That ‘work and compromise and sacrifice’ is what we call love.
Marry sure because their biological clock is ticking and they want to scratch marraige off their list of achievements! But the question is will they stay happily married after the euphoria wears off and real life hits you in the face?
And I didnt mention anything about balling out of control, I was responding to what you said “degree-less” and “house-less”. In my opinion having a degree and a house are not balling out of control they are the basics: ability to earn income and somewhere to live.
Now I agree that you dont have to be rich and some dudes run that game but there are many brothers who honestly believe they should have the ability to provide some basic provisions for their family before they take on such an important responsibility. !
Why not? Does the shallow nature of their desire exclude them from being either human or emotionally and honestly involved. Sure, the motivation is questionable BUT the fact that they are a human place holder doesn’t mean they aren’t actually trying to have a real relationship.
Why are you ruling people out based on the idea that their actions are spurred by a sense of limited time?
@sage of silence
Actually their shallow nature is what MAKES them human. But if you honestly want a relationship, then you honestly need to put whatever shallow desires you have for yourself aside. Relationships and selfishness do not mix. It’s impossible to have a valuable, emotionally meaningful relationship and be shallow and selfish at the same time.
People who are getting married only because of their ticking clock are in essence, doing so for selfish reasons. They want to be pregnant, by any means necessary, and are usually doing this at the expense of taking the time to mature and grow. This is about THEIR clock, not a meaningful relationship. That’s fine, do them, but….don’t bank on being eternally happy with who you choose to marry.
I cannot see how you separate that selfish desire from any other selfish desire? Every reason ever given for being in a relationship is a selfish and mostly immature desire.
Sure, one could argue that there is a finite or limit to what desires could be coded to one dimension of relationships or another but what happened to flaws and all?
What happened to literally every reason to ever being with someone who is noticeably imperfect?
While my query is based primarily on the lack of a significant difference between fear of losing “prime” reproductive time or simply the desire for companionship, can one motivator be diminished on a basis of personal bias? “Irregardless” of the reasons a person may use to justify entering a relationship, the union requires significant efforts to maintain. And it always has the potential to work because feelings can always change but the past cannot. Why let the past affect how you see potential?(outside of the obvious, of course).
If this comes off as a bit too direct, I do sincerely apologize, however, how can you so calmly separate things with similar values on a symbolic understanding that may or may not be absolute?
Best comment of the day!
@Liz
Best comment of the day was @Liz for this:
Relationships and selfishness do not mix. It’s impossible to have a valuable, emotionally meaningful relationship and be shallow and selfish at the same time.
People who are getting married only because of their ticking clock are in essence, doing so for selfish reasons. They want to be pregnant, by any means necessary, and are usually doing this at the expense of taking the time to mature and grow. This is about THEIR clock, not a meaningful relationship.
Thas real talk. Marriage and selfishness cannot coexist. The institution itself is predicated on sacrifice.
@Squeak
But why would you sacrifice if it wasn’t for a selfish reason? Thats like saying as long as its just my hand it ain’t part of my arm.
If you are looking for selfish then there is no way to remove that from the equation of being human. There is always some benefit to the actions we commit to.
From “its just the right thing to do” to “I do it because I love her and care how she feels” to “sometimes there is no rhyme or reason to why you help others” there is always something you gain whether it be peace of mind(lack of guilt) or improved relationship. Maybe I’m nitpicking the diction but seriously…I’m not from another planet with this. This is a well known argument that I’m merely echoing.
I swear y’all just sayin “sacrifice” cause it sounds nice. I mean, be precise, right? Whatever, do what you do. Sooner or later either I’ll stop sharing my opinion or I’ll figure out what exactly y’all are talking about because as of right now, with the experience I have and how I see people interacting with others, especially within the confines of marriage…even married people and marriage counselors aren’t qualified to talk about it. Every situation is like trying to build a sand castle out of fallen clouds.
SMDH@sacrifice. It would be a shame to assume some hierarchy based on accomplishments when those things rarely are related and the people involved are not necessarily comparatively or operationally as dynamic in each situation.
kirk out
@sage of silence
lol. you seem hell bent on trying to get some understanding on this. i’ll take a stab at it though.
In relationships, people sacrifice things of *themselves* because they see a greater good for the sake of *the relationship* which is a mutually beneficial thing for *both parties.* hence, not a solely selfish act in the end. you and your partner both benefit when both of you engage in a little selflessness.
it’s why marriages are not easy, but (some) people stick through them anyway: the benefits outweigh whatever temporary/petty thing they’re trippin on at the moment. I don’t think anyone with a lasting successful marriage would say it was easy the entire time. Also, having this frame of mind doesn’t mean you won’t have a flawless marriage. We are human, we fall. My grandparents had a successful marriage for 55 years, despite my grandfather cheating and having a baby with someone else somewhere in the first half of the marriage.
@Liz
When you say “hellbent” you mean determined, right?
And when you say “understanding”, you mean me understand y’all right?
Well, yeah, I just want to understand how you all come to see sacrifice as something greater than simply another aspect of a relationship. The way you guys speak on it, y’all make it seem like the ballast. So, I absolutely desire to understand that perspective.
@Liz,
I agree. Putting the entire relationship before yourself may benefit both, but it doesnt mean it’s selfish. Doing it with resentment however, so that you can later recall your sacrifices at the other person’s expense, i.e. martyrdom, is selfish.
Seeing some 1 Corinthians 13 in here.
@Sage
Nah, don’t stop sharing bro. This is what makes it live.
The term “sacrifice” merely means giving up one thing for the sake of something else. Could you possibly benefit from that sacrifice? Yes. But what we are talking about sacrificing in relationships (for the sake of argument, primarily marriage) generally has to do with giving up things of instant gratification in exchange for long-term happiness and stability.
Whether or not you benefit from something doesn’t make it selfish. Motive does. If you are giving up or”sacrificing” something to become a martyr in the situation, that is selfish. If you are doing it for the sake of the other person, it isn’t.
ultimately though, you can’t have a productive marriage or any relationship and be selfish. You will either fail or it will become abusive in some aspect as you are always first tending your own needs and not the other’s.
@Squeak,
I dig the paradigm you offer
but what you mention as sacrifice is more like free market trade, tit for tat or quid pro quo.
I wander sometimes, why, it is that I don’t see a difference where others do. There is only presumption that seemingly separates these symbolic gestures…its like generally acceptable lies as sustenance. The end result is no different and people get tripped up on the sound much like me with these words “sacrifice” and “altruism” though I introduced that one into the convo.
@Sage. I feel you. Motive matters more than anything else, IMO.
@Masiotso dig that.
hmmm, thats not what I meant. I meant, the motive mattered little and the results mattered the most.
I think, thats what this entire post is about.
Men telling women ” I really have the best intention for you and my motive is to become the best man for you”.
I see this and I think, “bleh”. Eff what you heard, make it work. In this respect I am very little different from the women who share my approach. (something about that sentence makes me cringe).
I’m beyond caring about motive or the superficiality of an exchange and focused more on how I feel and that it doesn’t go in a negative direction due to neglect. If you don’t know you are in the red, then the boil over can be tremendous.
Its about maintaining self, personal responsibility and standard. The moment you focus on what the other person is or isn’t doing, then disruption and chaos are close behind.
Liz, because of your wisdom, intelligence, and just general ability to speak truthishness, you have been officially crowned Queen of Mouzonia(that’s gonna be the name of my island country when I get my Bill Gates on)
@Brother Mouzone HAHAHHA! Why thank you
@sage of silence, I have only discovered such perspective within the last 6 or 9 months of my life lol. Please believe I was a HOT MESS last summer and only then decided I needed to sit down and figure myself out or it would only get worse. I’m def not even close to being done. To be real, if folks just stopped and had honest conversations with themselves, they could get out of their own way. I look forward to my next boyfriend, I know he will be awesome!
@Liz I concur. seems like last summer was the worst for a few people. lol.
The secret behind delusion is belief.
The secret behind reality is belief.
The secret to life is belief.
@ Liz
If you cannot believe, then what is the point.
He will be awesome, especially when you believe you yourself are awesome and deserving of an awesome man.
@sage you’re right! I almost wanted to add “because I know I will be awesome!” at the end of “he will be awesome!” Still a work in progress
We are all a work in progress. One mans treasure is another mans trash. In the end you can only be yourself and the “RIGHT” one will appreciate you for you are not who who have to be.
very well put. I like you, squeak!
I fundementally disagree. Selfishness is obviously inherint in nature whether it be in a parrot or a person. in nature all actions are dictated by benifit to the self. It’s a realist perspective that we only do ‘good’ for subconcioussly selfish reasons.
You say we help people because we want to avoid ‘guilt’ but this actually proves the ideas of humans being selfish wrong. The fact we feel guilt is in itself a testament to the fact that we do value other people’s need above our own…on occasion.
If I do something rather horrible to Mr. Smith but I gain an awful lot of reward for it and no penalty at all then I have done something selfish. I may not know Mr. Smith and will never see him again but suddenly I feel this dark cloud of guilt. Even though i have gained I feel guilty simply for upsetting someone else. It’s an emotion animals lack and the fact it exists elludes to our occassionally unselfish nature.
People die for other people. It is a fact. And you would not die for someone if you are selfish, I guarentee it’s better to live. Some might argue that you die because you would rather see them live so…still selfish. uh ah! If you are dead you won’t be around to enjoy them living!
Stop pulling human nature down. A lot of things about relationships are unselfish.
I would like to think humans have surpassed the basic ways of nature
I cosign your cosign and raise you pi.
Regarding the portion of Liz’s comment you highlighted ^^^, this is all I have to say:
Truer words have certainly been spoken before, and hers will join the ranks with them.
@kendrick:
As I said in earlier comments, I am operating under the assumption that both people want to be married some day and they are working towards a successful marriage. People who want marriage for the sole purpose of a clock ticking or a checklist item are not included in the conversation of successful marriage.
Hey Liz….. Tap, Tap, Tap…. Hey its PIYR…. Hey i neva got my VSB glitter…. Please and Thank You…..LOL!
@PerceptionIsYourReality:
LOL!!!
Aww. Sorry!
****extra VSB glitter*** for you!!!
“What I am saying is that you can get married with the intent to grow your lives together if you have a good sense of yourself, and you and your partner are willing to compromise enough to work together. Instead, a lot of men are going around here under the pretense that they need their MBA first, when really they’re just not ready for all that work and compromise and sacrifice. And by the way? That ‘work and compromise and sacrifice’ is what we call love.”
YESSSSS Liz. This pretty much says it all. Character traits like selflessness, consideration, compromise and sacrifice have very little to do with status (i.e. MBA, house, etc.) and everything to do with what you KNOW you are and are not willing to do for or with a particular person in a particlular relationship to sustain it. And i wouldn’t even say that EVERY person is capable of those things. For some, even when they do find someone who they think is worth the compromise or sacrifice, some people’s character is such that no matter who comes along, it’s just not in them to go that extra mile. And I think we as women often get stuck trying to figure out whether or not a man just isn’t willing to commit and/or capable of commiting period….or is he just not willing to commit to ME. And too many times, we tend to convince ourselves that its the former when it just may have been the latter.
On another note towards what Kendrick was saying, although I DO think men have a much more practical and realistic natural instinct as to whether or not a relationship is one that will result in a successful marriage, (topic for another day though) I also think that men often tend to throw out the “I wanna be financially stable, own a house, etc before I get married” explanation when really, you know you still wouldn’t marry that girl if you had 6 degrees, 4 houses and a swiss bank account. I can appreciate a man who wants to have his sh*t together and be able to provide for his family before making the decision to get married but, if thats really the truth, then it shows (and women DO notice/appreciate it) in the fact you take into consideration that she won’t be around waiting forever and and really make moves to get where you feel you want or need to be before taking the next step.
Mr. Staley…
Well what ever happened to the way out parents used to do it… They may not have had everything they desired prior to the marriage and the babies. But they WORKED hard TOGETHER in order to support the other one while they achieved their own personal goals. Like my father supported my mom while she went to school and my mom did the same for my dad when he got his MBA.
I think within our generation we are missing the sacrifice that it takes to be married. We all feel that there is always more to achieve and we ultimately putt Love on the back burner.
Prepare for the corny line…… Gasp… “Love makes the world go round”!! IMO, the trials in life are easier to deal with/overcome when you have some one else to lean on….
My two, three and four cents.
I think within our generation we are missing the sacrifice that it takes to be married. .
*nodding*
@PerceptionIsYourReality
I never got my VSB glitter either
*VSBGlitter to you!*
Sorry I was probably off that day and the guys didn’t catch it
There’s been a lot of studies that show men get married to whoever they’re with when they’re ready to get married. And I don’t think that “readiness” can be forced.
extra excited about virtual glitter
You know what Liz, I think sometimes there is a little bit of truth.
One of my aunts (who is like the best/real-est advice giver I have ever seen) has this great analogy (rephrased by yours truly):
“A woman will go on a cruise to discover different cities and generally enjoy herself, then the boat stops in EnchantedLand… she is so smitten with EnchantedLand right there and then, that as soon as she is back from the cruise, she decides to move to EnchantedLand…
A man will only relocate to EnchantedLand if he specifically went on the cruise to find an EnchantedLand to move to. If he went on the cruise for the purpose of having fun, no matter how gorgeous/great EnchantedLand is, he won’t decide to move there… He might speak wistfully of EnchantedLand but still truthfully believes when the time comes, he’ll be able to find FantasyLand and be perfectly happy with it”
According to her, that’s basically how men and women approach the subject of settling down/marrying… Women find what they like and decide to settle down, men decide to settle down then find what they like… And based on what I have witnessed around me it seems to be pretty accurate…
@sula
That’s interesting. I never thought of it that way.
this is exactly what i’ve been taught to believe (all the evidence i see supports it).. your auntie is “spot-on” with that.
Hi Monique!! *waves*
hey lady! we should have a drink one day.. soon..
Sula, can I just say that I’ve mentally co-signed EVERYTHING you’ve posted today. I’m just gonna shut up and let you take the wheel.
Same here TWI! Like Mary Jane says, let’s celebrate the co-signage… lol… We don’t know what tomorrow will bring.
Lol.
This sounds similar to what I was telling my mentor yesterday:
Idk if it’s a Black woman thing, a woman thing, or just a human thing…
I just always feel like I HAVE to know what to do…like I always have to have everything together. And when it’s not, I some degree of non-accomplishment because one thing may be out of place. And the ironic thing about it is, when I tell people how I feel, they literally laugh in my face and tell me that I’m overreacting.
So, I know see both sides of the continuum: The go where love/life takes you side and the I feel like I need to get myself together before I get involved with you side.
At what point is one “together”? I doubt there will every be a point where I’m not working on some goal I have. If I wait to get myself together, I’ll be waiting forever! Like Liz said, it’s just a convenient excuse. I say it’s an excuse for either 1)being alone or 2)being wild. LOL.
I wouldn’t even say that’s the male perspective. Can’t speak for all males….I think it might just be a TRL thing. *Shrugs*
I know I have things I need to work on….I’d have a lot more faith in dating/relationships/etc. if I knew one that was willing to be there for the trip up the mountain instead of coming around only when I reach the top.
I know I have things I need to work on….I’d have a lot more faith in dating/relationships/etc. if I knew one that was willing to be there for the trip up the mountain instead of coming around only when I reach the top.
- Well played, sir. Well played.
Hey….Since nobody wants to catch the bus with me, I certainly am not letting anyone ride in the ______ (Insert medium-range, good-gas-conserving car here) when I get one.
@ Liz!
YES!!!!!!!!!!!! its about the management of money, not the actual amount! People fight about who gets to spend what, who works more for how much, and who went shopping during lunch. You can make 35k or 120k and still have the same issues.
My mom told me, when I was much younger that she made the decision to never fight with my father about money. While she was pregnant with me, they had just come to the US and were broke as a joke. My dad was a taxi driver and attending school and they were renting a basement. She was supposed to wire some $200( a FORTUNE) back to his family and made a mistake on the numbers and got swindled at the money transfer office. When she told him what happened, He said “Oh baby, its just money…we make it to spend it. It’ll be fine”. She said she decided then never to argue about money.
27 years after that conversation. Degrees long been obtained, salaries quadrupled, home purchased, children grown, and they take a cruise every year. Not a shot fired!
WIP, I’m with you girl. Except it’s my heart that doesn’t get it, my head does though.
See, this is what men think. “I can’t take her along for the ride and get to the destination on schedule.” Women think, “WE can make it work and I hope we get there, but if not, then at least we’re together making each other better.”
while i’d like to fully agree with you on this one, i don’t know that most women truly feel this way. well let me caveat this, it fully depends on what the guy is actually doing. yeah, if the dude has a great job and just wants to advance sure the woman is going to be like, why can’t we just be together and make it as a team. but if this ninja is a painter who’s waiting for his big break i cant imagine a woman is going to be just so open to the lack of security this man is bringing to the table. we’ve heard countless stories of women loving starving artists only to realize that they were wasting time. we’ve heard some of them here. and it’s not that i don’t agree with your premise. you’re right, most men want to get their ducks in a row first. but if the prevailing logic is that men should wait until they’re ready anyway, then how is there anything wrong with this ideology? it seems like its exactly how it should be. men gets his sh*t together THEN finds a woman.
but then again, maybe that’s your entire point since your last line sums it alll up.
men gets his sh*t together THEN finds a woman.
this would be great except- why are you dating at all until the ducks are lined up? just keep picking up young ones who don’t know better at the end of the night.
man gotta eat.
i knew you were going to say that. but no one wants to be someone’s $5 takeout box.
I think you don’t have to be perfect to date, but I do think you have to be in the place where you are willing and able to think about the wants and needs of others. This is the preparation that I do not see a lot of men undertaking. That’s why it doesn’t matter to me so much what you have, but your willingness to share.
It’s kind of hard to think about the wants and needs of others when every date is a first date….who is thinking about MY wants and needs?
After so much “back to the drawing board”….it becomes difficult to genuinely care about someone else when I’m the one coming out of pocket and wasting time on dates that end up being pointless. I’d rather blow 100 bucks on one good date (where I at least have a shot at Date Two) versus 20 bucks on five garbage dates (where I’d likely go 0-5) just for the sake of “dating around”.
I am talking more about emotional availabilty to another person. I think that you have to have it in order to be a good partner and you have to be able to sense it in others in order to find a good partner. I don’t know your situation, and I hope that I am not overstepping, but maybe taking time to be friends with women first may work for you. It will give you a chance to assess her character (not all that glitters is gold) and also if she may be interested in something more. Also, not all women liked to be wined and dined. Coffee dates are nice when you are just getting to know someone.
Dating is not done solely for the purpose of getting married, is it?
I am a woman and I haven’t solely dated with the prospect of getting married… I have dated guys because they were fun, we enjoyed each other’s company, they were great friends and so on and so forth. There are myriad of reasons why people date. Now deciding on settling down is a whole different matter in itself, so I can understand why it takes “having more ducks in a row” before deciding to do so.
*standing ovation*
I do believe in meeting the right person for you at the wrong time…but doesn’t that, in effect, make them no longer the right person for you?
@SQT2DC
i don’t know if i agree… the right fit for you personally isn’t so much of a timing thing unless you believe that romantic love makes all puzzle pieces fit together perfectly… i believe that romantic love, actually any kind of love has to be worked on, pruned, taken care of etc… ups and downs, good and bad and all that… so i totally believe that right person, wrong time and right person, wrong area does exist… such is life… we have been told from day one that it isn’t fair right
life’s a b*tch, because if it was a slut it’d be easy… or so they say
“life’s a b*tch, because if it was a slut it’d be easy”
THIS
@ Yoles
See, I had a big long story to tell, but I was a little bummed that I stayed up so late to try be first…only to forget to refresh the page & got beat by Corey (lol!). I have noticed since I’ve joined the VSB community, The Champ & PJ have been pretty much writing stuff that hits home for me. Must be meant for me to be here.
So here’s the story (I tend to be long winded so imma try to keep it short):
Gal exits long term relationship with the wrong guy and decides to take herself completely out of the game, no dates, no dudes, nada. That was four years ago.
Then one of Gal’s friends suggests she join Facebook (it’s a helluva drug) where she reconnects with Guy from her past. Guy sends those thoughtful gifts for every occasion: birthday, Valentine’s, Christmas. Guy calls every day, at all times of the day, and talks with Gal into the wee hours of the morning like teenagers. He even sends those texts during the day that all us gals want (just thinking about you, etc.). Gal and Guy are perfect for each other. Sigh…
Gal decides its time to give up the cookies, and Guy accepts the cookies. Not long after cookie exchange, Guy says he needs to talk (Aw hell) and discloses that although he cares for Gal very deeply…
(And then the silence that they must have heard early that morning in Nagasaki because no one knew about the bomb that was about to be dropped)
Guy says, “I’m in the middle of a divorce”
Gal HEARS, “I’m still married… and you already gave me your cookies”
He still calls, but Gal doesn’t really take them. He still texts but Gal replies with one word answers. Guy knows he fcuked up big time and should have disclosed earlier on in the game. But Gal is salty, and has already decided to move on.
In some respects, I am glad that he got me to realize that even though my previous breakup was that horrible, I did need some time to sit the bench. But not take myself out of the game forever. Hell, I even scored a touchdown instead of watching everyone else play
As far as Guy goes, we can be friends, and I still care about him, but he isn’t the right guy for me. The right guy for me would have disclosed everything I needed to know (before even discussing my cookies, let alone eating them) and LET ME DECIDE FOR MYSELF if I wanted to play with him or find another teammate.
***AYYYYYYYYYYMEN***
@SouthernQT2DC
i hope that you have read other comments i have made if not then i speak about honesty… real honesty and cards on table… on respecting each other enough to tell the truth and let people make decisions based on all the facts. i am sorry that you were lied to and i see how you can think he isn’t the one because of his lack of honesty and in a sense respect for you…
So you answered your own question right there. Lol. It’s not really the fact that he is in a middle of a divorce that’s the problem (timing), it’s more so that he didn’t disclose a very important piece of information before you did the do that’s the problem (character)…
So yeah, meeting the right person (character-wise) at the wrong time can still happen and the person could still have been a right person…. but that’s probably because I think there are a lot of right persons in the world for each one of us…. There is only one dude I dated that I couldn’t have been happy with in the long term… Most of my relationships were with guys that were “right people”… They just didn’t end in marriage… they were great experiences along the way… and I would like to believe experiences that enriched my life…
So now, I have a right guy at the right time for whom I’m also the right gal at the right time… I think it’s really more a matter of the journey with ourselves than it is anything else…
i’m not sure i agree with that. i think in principle it’s right, but i know i’ve come in contact with women who i thought were absolutely perfect for me…we just didn’t or couldn’t work out for whatever reason. doesnt change the fact that i think as people we weren’t eachother’s lobster.
With only a handful of posts ever, pretty sure I still count as a “lurker.” Amazing what the anniversary has done with the readers’ willingness to come out of hiding. Soo…hi everybody! And while I’ll do a proper comment regarding the topic at hand, gotta say Panama…
“doesn’t change the fact that I think as people we weren’t eachother’s lobster.”
I always appreciate a good “Friends” allusion.
Welcome back!
@ Candy Girl
???????WELCOME BACK???????
please stay and continue to post…
glad you picked up on that. lol. and yes, you’re a lurker. you can pick up your lurker jacket at the sign in table.
Agreed.
Damn. This one hit too close to home. Jugular.
This: “Guy finds the different Gal, realizes it, but just can’t give her what she needs…but hopes she’ll still be around when he’s ready to move on to stage 2.”
and
That: “Let’s be real, it’s scary as hell to realize that you’re staring the future in the face. Especially when you’ve spent so much time either assuming that you’d never find the exact woman you were looking for or never believed she could possibly exist so you settled…”
Yessir.
oooh. more ***VSBglitter***
You know, sometimes I wonder if I really believe I know what I want in a man. I’m starting to think I don’t. That my husband will be some dude I totally never thought I would end up with. I’m okay with that. In the meantime, I am also okay with believing he doesn’t really exist. I’ve got backup plans in place.
> That my husband will be some dude I totally never thought I would end up with. I’m okay with that.
* listens to “Hey Ma” *
“…And I know what ladies like
Need a man that’s polite, listens and takes advice
I could be all three, plus …..”
Hey, Liz!
LOL
Kinda hard to believe that those are lyrics to a Cam’ron/Dipset/ any organization that would have Jim Jones as a member song.
like … a vibrator? or backup husbands? lol
LOL!
Naw. I got me a backup baby mama in the event I get pregnant (accident or not). We’re gonna move to Atlanta and buy a house there. She’s always wanted a Black baby (yep, I’m stepping out on Black men completely).
“She’s always wanted a Black baby (yep, I’m stepping out on Black men completely).”
This made me choke on my sausage…
Oh.. um…
*walks away because, yeah, that was too easy*
Yeah….I’m not even going to do to you….
LOL
This right here!!!!!!!!
“You know, sometimes I wonder if I really believe I know what I want in a man. I’m starting to think I don’t. That my husband will be some dude I totally never thought I would end up with. I’m okay with that. In the meantime, I am also okay with believing he doesn’t really exist. I’ve got backup plans in place.”
In the meantime, I am also okay with believing he doesn’t really exist
Funny, I was telling The Dude this morning that our perception truly becomes our reality… He was giving me a pep talk about this huge thing I have slated to happen… and I realized that as long as I believed it was not going to happen, it was not going to happen… I have seen proof of this in ALL aspects of my life… As long as I don’t believe something my dang self, I usually can’t make it happen….
A friend likes to say: “It’s your mind. Choose the right thoughts”. And as cliche as it sounds, it’s freakingly true.
You did write something on this topic. I’ve seen plenty guys do that too. Is it really fear or is it lack of confidence in your (not you) ability to commit? I guess these are rhetorical questions. Lol
I think it’s their inability to commit coupled with fear. Lol! What guy, if unexpectedly given the opportunity to begin his dream job(great money, opportunities for advancement,awesome perks,etc), wouldn’t jump at the chance? I can’t imagine he’d say “it’s a great position but I wasn’t expecting this chance this early/right now in my career. It’s just too much like right.” C’mon. At the end of the day, it’s about his priorities and if he chooses not to pursue the woman that’s “well suited” for him then it’s because it wasn’t really important to him. He values something else more.
*claps*
Yas! It makes no sense to me. I guess free poon must be that important to some guys. They’re smart too. They know the woman is a catch so they do the bare minimum to keep her around while living it up.
Exactly. It has little to do with intimidation and more to do with wanting to stay “out there”- dude just doesn’t want a relationship. You can dress it up to sound sweet and try to spare feelings, but that’s what it really comes down to IMO.
That is quite logical!
*APPLAUSE* This hit the nail RIGHT on the head. Its about priorities!
Actually that happened to me just last year. I was offered a director position and took a lesser position because I knew I wasn’t ready for it yet. Now I’m in a spot where I feel as if I could do the job (and possibly better than the person who holds it, but I digress) but I’m excelling where I am. I would have loved the extra money and the title, but ultimately I wasn’t the right person for the position at the time. #realtalk If I’m going to do something, I wanna know that I can do it right. I couldn’t confidently say that then.
I do agree with that. I have been in situations where I accepted something I was not ready for (a proposal, a business deal) and effed up so hard (the proposal) that I almost garnered enemies. I also had situation where I had the wisdom to decline things that I knew I was not ready for… It takes maturity and clarity to know where you stand at each moment…
What’s the point of “struggling” if you know for a fact that you’re not ready for a commitment? I rather the guy say no and allow me to move on rather than stay against his will. That would be torture.
^^^
THIS! Don’t try to make a square peg fit a round hole.
1) Thanks for the welcomes @ the welcoming commity.
2) SmartFox: Not sure if you were talking to me BUT regarding this question: “ Is it really fear or is it lack of confidence in your (not you) ability to commit?” Probably a mix of both althoug the latter has become less of an issue with age. I can commit but, like most men, I want to get it right…preferably, once.
To the ladies in general, I notice women always compare men’s pursuit of jobs to their pursuit of women. IT IS NOT COMPRABLE. When you go after a job, you pretty much know how it’s going to go. e.g. Do your job and you’ll get a raise, promoted, there’s a career path you can follow, etc. etc. In dating, you dont know WTF is going to happen. lmao Ish can be cool on Monday and you’re “fired” on Friday. If women/relationships were as predictable as jobs, TRUST, a lot more men would pursue women/commitment like they do jobs.
But it aint, so they dont.
IT IS NOT COMPARABLE
Yes, it’s really not the same thing. A job has a clear cut definition and expectations that come along with it. It can be evaluated with clear performance markers and quantified. A relationship CAN NOT. How do you quantify such a subjective thing as happiness? And despite what Steve Harvey and the likes have us believe, there is NO blueprint… Not a one. It’s like pick-your-own-adventure books with gazillion scenarios. So the two are not even remotely comparable.
@WIM
???????WELCOME???????
please stay and continue to post…
Guy is finding himself swooning over Gal. But there’s just one problem: he’s 25. And he’s not ready to be locked down.
This is what irritates me to no end. Men, if you aren’t ready for a commitment, let your girl go. I’ve had too many friends have long-term relationships and engagements end because “you’re too good for me.” Translation, “I didn’t want to be alone, but I had no intention of marrying you. So I wasted 2-5 years of your life, bought you little trinkets here and there to keep you quiet, when you could have been with a man who actually wanted to commit.”
Do you think the onus is all on the man though? If I want to get married, and after 5+ plus years of dating, and a “uh maybe next year,” response to the marriage question, perhaps I should pack my bags and go. I see what your saying, but both parties need to be honest about what they want in the relationship.
That’s right. The woman in this type relationship is allowing this ish to occur which makes her responsible as well. Two wrongs don’t make a right… three lefts do though.
I think that’s the other part of dating we don’t want to deal with. Most of the time we are sorting through our feelings, needs and wants when in a relationship. I’ve just learned to say what I expect up front even if it’s total left from what I know I want. Confusing. I know. I can’t explain, I tried…
My cousin is in that exact situation and she stays. They have been together for five years and he’s damn near 40 (old enough to know what he wants) and he’s still on that “it’s not time for that talk yet.” Da Hallye it ain’t!
I got that answer twice in a relationship. We were living together, I was raising his son like my own and holding the home down like a “G”. He was still on the “I did wanna get married, but now I don’t know.” After 1.5 years I helped him figure it out. Packed up and left.
At a certain point in a relationship, there’s nothing further to discover about one another. Sure, you can never truly know all aspects of another, but if we live together you’ve seen me sick, upset, happy, in pain, overjoyed, stressed, content, etc and there’s nothing left to uncover. You either want it or you don’t. And after a certain amount of time, “I don’t know” is not longer an acceptable answer. It’s a stall tactic, excuse or just flat out BS.
So, the onus can’t just be on men all the time. Sometimes women need to wake up and realize that some men just aren’t ready and that’s okay. If it’s meant to be, he’ll be back. And if not…someone else will come along.
@Mo-VSS
A year and half? Are we supposed to propose that soon? Thats a tad quick, at any age. Sorry. Sometimes it takes awhile for crazy to manifest itself id play the waiting game.
I dont believe in the if its meant to be, hell be back. It takes two people to make it work and if you leave timing or dating someone else could easily prevent the “its meant to be” from happening. I do not believe in fate. Theres not just 1 soulmate just several people you could make a relationship work with.
Truth be told, time isn’t the factor, its experiences.
So 1.5 yrs in undergrad, might be 5 mins in ‘real life’.
In order to evaluate a person, you have to see them at the happiest, the saddest, fly, not-so-fly, and to _learn_ about the person, not just clock time with em.
In the end, no matter how hard you try to avoid it, you can’t shake the truth: no matter who you pick, marriage is hard and rewarding (the fact that it is hard makes it so rewarding). So stop being scuurrred, put on your chute, open the airplane door and jump out -> it’s a THRILL!
this is true. Im not saying clock time, i just think sometimes people rush into things and make the wrong decision thats all. Relationships will take alot of work and support throughout the time together. I just think alot of people get to wrapped up into the initial hype and attraction of people and it clouds there judgement. As you pointed out with the experience and undergrad to 5min of real life age does matter. When Im older by a year and a half im thinking okay i may/do want to marry this woman and evaluating her as such but thats me. At 25 shes in for a minimum 3 year job training before gf to fiance promotion.
3 years @ 25? good luck with that.
im sorry but im in Law school and dont graduate till 27. so where is this ring money coming from?
Note: I am not taking out GRAD Plus loans for a proposal/honeymoon.
Im saying good luck with stringing a woman along for 3 years, now if you chose to stay unattached during that time that’s a different story.
what about one of those 25 cent rings from the toy machines or a twist tie? ok, so this might be a slight exaggeration, but to me at least that would be sweet. if your girl truly loves you, then she should say yes regardless of the ring. and when y’all both start making money then get a ‘real’ ring if so desired.
or maybe i’m just being young and stupid and things don’t work out that way IRL…
Man, that’s one thing people gotta let go of: the ring means nothing, and don’t get me started on blood diamonds. Don’t let the consumerism of today stop u from that sweet soulful bonding of a deep relationship
“A year and half? Are we supposed to propose that soon?”
Don’t take all day to recognize sunshine. It sounds like she wasn’t asking him to propose, she wanted to be clear and say “Yes, marriage is something I value and I could see you as my wife” and bruh kept telling her “Iono” when she was doing her best to be a good woman. With all I’m doing, if you still “don’t know” then I know for you.
(Sorry Mo, I’ve just inserted my own dialogue into your life. LOL)
How long is it supposed to take to realize you want to be married to somebody? There’s no time limit. You can know quickly; it may take longer. But no one wants to be strung along as if they are expendable.
@WIP i think we have an idea of we CAN see this person as our wife by this time as an idea. If this dialogue was what was had then yah i feel it. If it was damn he hasnt gone to Helzberg/Zales in 1.5yrs then i cant cosign it. The second question i posted my view after LSQ’s comment above
@ WIP
Exactly, they weren’t just a long distance, seeing each other every 6-8 weeks. They were living together, seeing each other every day and she was raising his child. At that point, you see what marriage is going to be like, either you want it or you don’t!
He opened up with “I want to get married” and then came with the “uhm, I don’t know,” later. And we’re not in undergrad, we were 29 and 32. I wouldn’t have cared about marriage or proposal that soon except HE brought it up straight out the gate and then when I got on board, he pulled back. Almost like it was a ploy to get me involved and then continue doing his thing. The bait and switch if you will. I’m not down for that. It could have developed organically, but he wanted the excelerated time line…so, if that’s the case, don’t come with the real if you aren’t truly ready for the real.
It all depends on where you are in life. And the type of relationship you share with the individual… Personally, 1.5 years is long enough…
Look at Al Bundy (Ed o’neil), in a younger life he was married with Children and a shoe sale man in the Midwest with a complaining wife. Now he’s a successful business owner in Southern California married to younger And fine Sofia Veraga living the modern life. Us guys think marrying early will have us like Al bunny in the 90′s, when we would rather be. Al Bundy 2011.
Or when Martin was thinking of marrying Gina. The old man playing cards with him said he had the house, the car, the job, but no woman. The next thing, Martin had Brian McKnight saying at the proposal.
This irks me to no end as well.. there should be no need to make this something that its not. If you feel that you aren’t ready to be committed to me why even waste your time and mine. State your purpose from the beginning and then allow me to make the decision as to what I would like to do with your proposal. I don’t like being swindled and bamboozled into thinking something when in actually its not that..
*woosah*
Back in my “committing to anyone besides myself would just be a lie because I know that’s not where I am” days I tried to break things off with a girl “for her own good”. She was genuinely insulted. She asked me who I was to decide what was best for her. After I got over the initial shock, and “how dare you get mad at me for trying to do the right thing” indignation” I thought about it and realized she had a point.
I was always honest with her about where I was, and me trying to make a decision for her when she knew what she had all of the information she needed to make it for herself was patronizing.
From that point on I said that all I can do is be honest with girls and treat them with the same respect and adult should be treated with. Did I get blamed when things played out the way I said they would? Yeah. Where there sometimes hard feelings? Yeah. Was part of me being honest for my own benefit so that I could sleep at night? Of course. Did some girls respect my honesty? That happened too.
But I still feel like I did the right thing, even if it made me look like a jerk. And that treating women like they aren’t capable of making their own decisions or living with the consequences without blaming someone else for the outcome is lightweight sexist, even if most women think the exact opposite is true.
Most times if you’re in a relationship that isn’t where you want it to be, all you have to do is look in the mirror if you want somebody to blame.
Interesting point. I recently had a convo where I thought “who is this ninja, God?” precisely because he was on the same track. I’m not ready to get married or have kids now either so for him to come with the “I’m not ready” speech was kinda like weird because I’m in grad school now and don’t have the time for either.
Now, when I’m done with grad school I will be looking. If he’s around and available, great. If not, then such is life.
But men do need to be aware of how that looks when you come across on the “let me make the decision for you,” speech. It is insulting, no matter how much of a place of sincerity it comes from.
The funny thing is, we really do think we’re doing the right thing. In some cases it might be the right thing to do. Who the hell knows, all I could do is what I thought was right.
MM
i give you SUPER DUPER PROPS for the honesty… once you give all the information and people make decisions after being FULLY disclosed your conscious is clear my friend… clear
i think a lot of women just want the honesty of it all… not the hemming and hawing, not the “i don’t knows”, i’m not sures” etc but the full blown truth… i commend you
Thanks. But what do you do with the ” You knew if you kept dating me I would catch feelings” argument?
MM
i am an advocate for truth… and as for “you knew if you kept dating me i would catch feelings” argument i say counter with “i was honest with you upfront, laid all my cards on the table, you said we could just have fun. when you felt the feelings coming on why didn’t you respect me like i respected you and brought forth truth to this arrangement, so we would know if it was time to end things before hearts get broken?”
I am sorry. I have no sympathy for that ” You knew if you kept dating me I would catch feelings” argument? Why. Because she kept dating you. The real issue is what was she looking for? Did she really think you would come around if she gave you more time or something????
@Medium Meech
But what do you do with the ” You knew if you kept dating me I would catch feelings” argument?
Nothing ’cause that ain’t about you. That’s her and her ego and her refusal to accept the words that are coming out out of your mouth.
Slightly off today’s topic – cuz it didn’t involve “the one” – but here are my $0.02 abt the “You knew if you kept dating me I would catch feelings” argument…
I was recently in a FWB situation where I entered into things knowing I liked dude but was unclear what the development potential was for him. We were chill in for a minute and I did find myself catching feelings (as we ladies tend to do)…and he was acting more and more “more than friends” in our public outings. I decided to take matters into my own hands and ask him straight up (bracing for the impact of hearing something I didn’t want to).
He was very upfront with me abt his outlook on future “upward mobility” of our relationship (there was none). Problem was – and here’s my Mars/Venus moment of “Really?” – he carried on as we were, thus giving what i deemed to be mixed messages between his verbal and his physical game! For me, the “nah, I’m cool” on the future prospects front put a hold on the present relations front. I’d rather it but cut and dried that in the unknow limbo…sue me. *shrug*
Ladies, is this just me or is this all-or-none a more universal chick-thing than I thought? Fellas, enlighten me as to the thought process that goes on, plz!
(apologies for my incoherent ramblings …it’s early. Hope that made sense)
I’ve only had one FWB experience, and he was a previous BF, so I expected (read demanded) certain treatment in public.
But, here’s my $0.02: If a man genuinely likes you, and isn’t the typical canine-ish incarnation, he’s not going to treat you the worst of the worst. Which leads to mixed signals and whatnot because they seem to be acting like an SO, when they really are demonstrating that they aren’t opposed to buying some drinks/dinner and ish before the chexual games they signed up for.
Don’t feel bad for “catching feelings” or for being in an “all or nothing” state of mind with a FWB situation. We were created to be that way, so no, it’s not a knock on who we are as women. Personally I welcome this attitude because to me it tells me my emotional tools are working, and I want them to still be working by the time I find a husband. Society tries to knock women for being this way, but this is how we are by design. Embrace it and lose that loser.
Thanks Liz!
Yeah…I got rid of him shortly after that conversation! Well, on to the next one (#noJayZ). I don’t regret is though cuz it allowed me to learn/grow.
@BOI – thanks for the perspective.
I don’t think its just women that are built to catch feelings. Dudes catch feelings in the FWB scenario sometimes too. I know I did. It’s not really easy on us either, but unless whatever variables that make a guy feel like he isn’t ready for a committed relationship with you change, then doing it is still the wrong choice.
Sometimes I felt like I was missing out on a really good girl or thought that I would regret not giving this person more of a chance. When I was ready to settle down I went back more than once to give a past relationship a chance, but sometimes the damage is already done. If she put up a lot of emotional walls to get over me, then getting through those can be almost impossible.
Don’t get me started on the alternative. Dudes that get into relationships are sometimes the biggest asssholes. I feel like black dudes get a bad rep for doing the right thing.
LOL. I concur, sir.
From your story it sounds like you wanted a relationship and he didn’t. The sounds like conflicting interests. Why stick around? You did the right thing by cutting it off IMO. You know what you need to know, on to the next.
For whatever reason he was being upfront about the prospects of the relationship. I really don’t think guys go into relationships with a “forever or bust” mentality.
thus giving what i deemed to be mixed messages between his verbal and his physical game
From my experience, only women KNOWINGLY give mixed signals… so we tend to interpret men’s behaviors based on what we would have done.
A man showing affection in public just means he enjoys your company, to him it has nothing to do with falling in love with you… especially if he never said so. Again, from what I have seen/experienced, until a man SAYS something and then acts accordingly, there is no reason to try and decipher mannerisms etc…
“you’re too good for me.” Translation, “I didn’t want to be alone, but I had no intention of marrying you. So I wasted 2-5 years of your life, bought you little trinkets here and there to keep you quiet, when you could have been with a man who actually wanted to commit.”
I feel sorry for people who fall into this situation, but I wonder – had the person heard the “you’re too good for me” earlier in the relationship? Probably. Because I’ve had dudes say that to me in the early stages of dating and that’s an immediate red flag for me. YOU think you’re not good enough for me? OK, I don’t need to find out the hard way that that’s true, I’ll take your word for it. PEACE!
Agree, with showing red flags way before years manifest. I think as women we should decide to not put up with mixed signals, just cut our losses and keep it movin’.
“OK, I don’t need to find out the hard way that that’s true, I’ll take your word for it. PEACE!”
When someone tells/shows you who they are, BELIEVE THEM