like billions of others, in august of 1984, i spent a good portion of my time glued to the tv watching the olympics. i was too young (five years old) to really comprehend many of the sporting events taking place, but since they seemed to involve lots of running and jumping and swimming and throwing and sh*t, i was hooked.
to my dismay, though, i noticed a common theme amongst the majority of the participants, a theme that disturbed me the more and more i watched. after a couple days of this, i’d grown fed up and gathered all the gumption a five year old could possibly muster, approached my dad and asked,
“do i hafta be white to play in the olympics?“
now obviously, in hindsight, the 29 year old champ knows that the men and women taking place in the olympics that year spanned all countries, cultures, and races, and creeds, but my five year old eyes weren’t lying. i knew what i saw, and i saw (what seemed like) 10 white athletes to every “other”, and i needed to know why and how that was possible.
along with the fact that it showed my parents they were raising an extremely weird peculiar and neurotic child, this story also signifies the first time i can recall being racially aware. since then, from an eight year old champ feeling sad because he realized that each of his crushes at school were light-skinned and that he was possibly colorstruck (true story. like i said, i was an odd child and sh*t, lol), to a teenage champ reading “race” and the “autobio of malcolm x” during commercials while i was watching the lakers or the bulls, the concept of race in general (and my “blackness” in particular) has been an obsession.
as i’ve grown older, this obsession has morphed into the form of a columbo-esque racial irritator, poking my unusually large head and nose around to attempt to debunk as many myths and “truths” as possible. yet, despite the number of generally (and lazily) assumed “facts” i’ve discussed, debated, and eventually discounted, theres one answer that has continually eluded me, an answer to a question that will become more and more relevant the further we go into the 21st century…
…is there a shared “black american experience?”
on the surface, this question seems at best, shortsightedly naive, and at worst, f*cking ignorant. despite the myriad nuances we possess as a community, its thought to be common knowledge that theres a shared experience we all participate in, a general consensus of commonalities that transcend status, class, and location, and anybody suggesting otherwise is either an idiot, ignorant, or intentionally inciteful.
thing is, what exactly does the black experience mean? in today’s america, where class distinctions are beginning to take full precedence over racial ones, how is the “universal black experience” determined?
i know it can’t be defined by our struggle with racism, because in today’s america, for every black american who’s had to face racial adversity, there exists those (read: “me“) who honestly can’t name one instance in their personal lives where being black became an obstacle (yup. you read that correctly. i’m a 29 year old black man who can honestly say that he’s never had to face any typical of unambiguous racial discrimination. ***knocking on wood***)
you can say that we’re linked through our hypertension soul food and baptist/methodist churches, but many southern whites hold these institutions just as dear as we do and many bougie northern blacks wouldn’t know soul food from sole’ so we can’t claim sole ownership (although, in the case of soul food, we could have claimed “finders keepers“, but its a bit too late for that now).
i guess you can note the unique way we move and express ourselves through music as the one thing that links us all, but if this is it, if the only shared experience is thats completely unique to us is limited to our rhythm and swagger, then, ummm, our experience definitely needs more people
hmmm…with all this being said, my question to you is…
…is there an all-encompassing, all-unifying “black experience“…or has this term become obsolete?
***before we answer these questions, lets rewind back to 1984 to see how my dad answered the question from the five year old champ***
“no, you don’t hafta be white, champ.”
i remember my dad remarking, while we were watching what had to be a particularly unattractive russian gymnastic team
“but, to be on that team, it seems like you’d hafta be ugly”
—the champ
I don’t think there is a universal Black experience. It made me think, I went to a month-long out of state summer camp when I was 15, there were 3 black kids (including me) and 2 “others” there out of say 400 kids. When I got there I though that I would immediately have a connection with them and that we would be thick as thieves. FAIL. We were all black chocolaty complected smart kids from upper middle class families but had NOTHING in common after that, it was very strange, because I had never met Black kids that I had no commonalities with.
@Relax, Relate, Alise,
i too have had that same experience….
@Relax, Relate, Alise,
I went to a month-long out of state summer camp when I was 15, there were 3 black kids (including me) and 2 “others” there out of say 400 kids.
were you in the woods and sh*t?
@The Champ,
It was kinda in the woods, but it wasn’t say a wilderness camp. But I will take it back, there was one commonality and that was that even the most liberal of the white kids had a bit of trepidation about engaging us (but there was no overt racism), after a bit of time that disappeared though, on the surface anyway.
i think that in today’s day and age, the idea of the unifying black experience is slipping away….that actually makes me kinda sad.
@shatani,
that actually makes me kinda sad.
why?
@The Champ,
I cant answer for shatani but I think its sad because for so long that is all we had as black people. We knew that we could see another black face and generally know that North, South, Mid-west or wherever you were from you were going through the same struggle. It meant that there was a sense of unity.
Now, there are so many people who dont even recognize that they are black and shy away from that. Its sad to think that an entire culture that stood so strong in the face of adversity is losing that strength because we choose to deny the struggle.
@Dom,
Maybe it’s because the adversity is also diminishing? And isn’t that a good thing?
@Ms. Sula,
No, because in my opinion the adversity isn’t diminishing, its just become more covert. And too many black folks are too damn blind to see it.
Thats the sad part.
“the adversity isn’t diminishing, its just become more covert. And too many black folks are too damn blind to see it.”
@Dom, I’m with you on this one.
@Dom,
I acknowledge there is covert racism…but what are we supposed to do about this? How am I supposed to act on some feeling that someone else is too pu$$y to express openly? Why even concern yourself with what someone has not voiced openly? If he/she is racist behind closed doors so what? I think everyone is to some degree anyway just cause.
@Deviant,
There really isnt anything you can do about covert racism and since you usually dont know its happening its all the more dangerous.Its not like you can fight against something you cant see.
But for black folks to deny that there is still a struggle just because they dont experience it themselves is dissapointing.
@Deviant,
that does irk me when brown skinned people say things like racism is over. Its one thing for Colbert to say it (plus he isnt serious..I dont think) its another for a black person to say it and be completely serious.
@Deviant,
If he/she is racist behind closed doors so what?
good question
@Deviant
“If he/she is racist behind closed doors so what?”
Well doesn’t your subconscious impact your views and how you make decisions – this is with everyday life, not just when speaking about racism?
@V Renee,
You can’t stop people from thinking how they think you have to learn on their own. I can’t go around worrying about who may or may not be racist. If they dont have the nuts to come out with it eff them.
@Dom,
I think that for some that there isn’t really much of a struggle. Blatant racism doesn’t happen like it used to. I lived in the deep south for 10 years. I never had any anger inducing incidents. In the past we may have been fighting the same battle but that scenario no longer exists for all of us. I’m not saying racism doesn’t exist I’m just saying the fight is different now. I have encountered more overt racism from black people than I ever have with any other people. You experience I’m sure is different.
@The Champ,
i dunno, champ…i kinda like having something that unifies me with others that look like me. makes me feel not so alone. maybe its silly and/or superficial of me.
@shatani,
maybe its silly and/or superficial of me.
its not. its human…for safety reasons, we all seek commonalities in other people, and we usually use race because its easier to identify
NO…like you said there use to be…it use to be that we shared a common ancestry, descendants of slaves that had no tangible ties to the mother land, whose history was lost and distorted and who were just trying to make a way. Now not so much.….
The umbrella is much more broad.. I tell you this though, whether you experienced racism or not we have all experience stereotyping of some sort because of our race…people assume you are good at sports, like rap music.. he.ll if you’re a fat black woman you know its assumed you can cook and sang….LMAO so whatever your experience is, the experience within itself might not be specifically a black thing but there is always going to be something about it that’s a little different from the main stream because you are black…
@Shay-d-lady,
…like you said there use to be…it use to be that we shared a common ancestry, descendants of slaves that had no tangible ties to the mother land, whose history was lost and distorted and who were just trying to make a way. Now not so much.…
I started to say that all Africans brought to America may have had the common misfortune of being enslaved, but that doesn’t make their experience as slaves universal.
But even that’s not 100% correct. Aren’t there accounts of some blacks who came to the America without being enslaved?
@Deviant, Yes there were black folk who came as freemen escaping persecution in England, there were blacks who came as indentured servants and the Washitaw Nation of Lousiana, a Native American tribe who lived in present day Lousiana, is considered and consider themselves black.
@I’m from the “Peyso”nic Temple,
Exactly. So slavery isn’t even a shared experience amongst all black people of American heritage.
@Shay-d-lady,
so whatever your experience is, the experience within itself might not be specifically a black thing but there is always going to be something about it that’s a little different from the main stream because you are black…
thing is, how much of that is definitely race-specific? i mean, for instance, if i met a white man in his mid to late 20′s who was over 6 foot and 200 pounds, dressed the same way i did and worked in the same field i do, i’d assume that he was into some hip-hop and probably played a sport or two as well. i assume (wrongly, lol…but i still assume) that all big women can cook.
i know i’m playing the devil’s advocate here, but its warranted in this case to get my point across
@The Champ, but even in that instance it is assumed he is trying to be “down” or black but the negative underlying stereotypes, the walking across th streets the angry black man from the streets..he gets none of that….
…is there an all-encompassing, all-unifying “black experience“…
No.
“i-n-i” only exists in terms of our humanity. My blackness is different from my parents’ blackness is different from my grandparents’ blackness is different from my brother’s blackness is different from my old college roommate’s blackness is different from my boss’s blackness… etc. etc. etc.
It’s more than geography and class. You’re suggesting a commonality exists in that something that literally transcends both time and space. Being black in GA in 1947 and being black in NY in 1967 are two entirely different “being”s.
The world exists can only be viewed in perspectives. No two “black experiences” will ever be alike. It’s just not possible.
@Deviant,
The world exists can only be viewed in perspectives. No two “black experiences” will ever be alike. It’s just not possible.
if this is (and has always been) the case, why do you think we use that term (the black experience) so freely and frequently?
@The Champ,
Because in the universe (in intelligent design and big bang style of thinking) things start out heterogeneous, homogeneously heterogeneous. And things interact the same everywhere. Then entropy steps in. And things start to mix up, dilute and randomize. Then they get treated the same interact the same. Then the treatment will get mixed up. I think it’s like a pulsating wave. This just may be a part of the wave that is like heterogeneous in treatment.
btw I am so bsin
awwww you mentioned entropy. takes me back to my college days as a biochem major….
@The Champ,
I think sometimes we just want to believe that we have a far deeper connection to other highly pigmented people than just our skin color. But in reality, sometimes that’s all it is.
@Deviant,
I totally feel this comment. Totally.
I think there is a common black experience umbrella, but many different subsets beneath it. My parents immigrated from E. Africa and I was born here. I’ve had some tell me I’m not “real” black, some say I’m not truly African, at the end of the day, in America I was black. I too can honestly say I have not experienced racism to the point where it has hindered my growth or success. Shoot, I’ve felt a lot more discrimination on the basis of religion than race.
I don’t think the term is obsolete, I think as you said, it is changing and going to continue to change. As more mixties are born, as immigration continues, as more Africans become 2nd, 3rd and 4th generation Americans, the face of black America won’t just be one.
I’ll be back in the am!
@overit, hey a fellow east african, how random! lol…hi
@postmodern pwnage, hayyy!
@overit,
“My parents immigrated from E. Africa and I was born here. I’ve had some tell me I’m not “real” black, some say I’m not truly African, at the end of the day, in America I was black.”
I think people tend to confuse race with nationality. For example, I am a black South African (just like there are white south africans). The fact that your parents are from East African does not make the colour of their skin non-black, it just mean they are not American.
@YGB, I think it may be because a lot of countries don’t look at race like America does, but just focus on nationality. I’m from Eritrea and we don’t look at race. Whether a person is black, white, etc, they’re called Eritrean. I remember living overseas for 6 months last year and I didn’t hear one mention of race and it was such a different experience. When I came back here, I realized how much Americans focus on race.
@Leila,
I suppose as South Africans we suffer from the same syndrome as America. Here people are classified as black, white, indian (red dot), coloured (mixed race per America). Only after that do people get classified according to tribe/language.
@YGB, totally random and unrelated note on South Africa. Do you think South Africans will finally stop voting in the ANC?
@postmodern pwnage,
I don’t think there’s a clear cut answer. The ANC had good ideals but the issue has been the implementation of said ideals. I think they started taking the black vote for granted as there was no strong opposition. Now, a lot of people are tired of the broken promises and are starting to wake up. Whether this will mean voting differently, one can only wait and see.
There has been a recent breakaway from the ANC and a new party has been formed. This seems to have made the ANC quite nervous (and rightly so). The ANC has a lot of support but I think the majority vote that they’ve always received and taken for granted will take a knock.
I hope that answers your question!
@overit, “My parents immigrated from E. Africa and I was born here. I’ve had some tell me I’m not “real” black, some say I’m not truly African”
I can relate. I was born in E. Africa and moved to NY as a kid and studied in East Asia for part of my education. People always try to box me into a category, which I find humorous or annoying depending on my mood. I’m not a big fan of labels. Despite different upbringings, I think there are general similarities in a “black experience” that won’t necessarily be categorized by food or music but just how we experience life and the way that we are treated by society.
@Leila, I am also East African, and my experience is entirely different. In fact, I would say alot of East Africans are quite racist. We are also not excluded from silly classifications such as tribes, or light/dark tone. We also have these problems, and we arent also very open to other Africans. I think every nation in this world has the problems we mostly accuse the States of having. While I agree that the whole ‘black’ versus ‘white’ thing is mostly exclusive to the States, racial hierarchies are not. As for the not being considered ‘black enough’, I would respond that many East Africans do not even view themselves as ‘black’, atleast speaking from a Canadian perspective.
@postmodern pwnage, “I would respond that many East Africans do not even view themselves as ‘black’, atleast speaking from a Canadian perspective.”
I completely agree. Another reason that I’ve gotten into countless heated debates. Shoot, if I had known from the beginning of the conversation I was the first to tell this person they were African, I’d prob have approached it differently lol.
The Black experience = the love of rice. Mais non? Then boooooooooooooo! lol
@Luvvie,
I thought it was the love of chicken.
@YGB,
i thought it was kool-aid
@The Champ,
I thought it was mason cups used as drinking cups.
@V Renee,
“I thought it was mason cups used as drinking cups.”
U tryna say Black folk dont do glasses?? See?? This is that Black on Black hate I be talm bout. Same reason why we still write on WHITE paper, and dream of a WHITE Christmas, while rocking WHITE ir Force Ones. Mmmhmmm, the MAN has permeated our realization to constipate our dedication to one another. And THAT is why we need to pontificate while we conversate.
We didn’t land on Plymouth Rock. Billy Ray Klan threw that sh*t on us.
hehe. I keed, I keed.
@Luvvie
What about in pool….You know the game is won when the WHITE ball sinks the black ball.
… and knocks it clear off the green table, which represents the earth.
Good one Gem; I never made the connection of green table representing earth.
@Luvvie,
You are so silly.
*chuckles*
@V Renee,
you used mason cups? in my fam, an old jar of mayo would suffice, lol
@The Champ,
we used old relish or pickle jars. Mason jars were used exclusively for putting up stuff for the fall and winter.
@N.I.A. isonebadmutha….,
My Mom woulda kicked your azz using her good mason jars (that she used for canning) to drink out of.
Better grab one of them tupperware cups.
@The Champ, “you used mason cups? in my fam, an old jar of mayo would suffice, lol”
LMAO.
@The Champ,
i’m with you on this (could this be a shared black pittsburgher experience?) we use old jelly jars, old mayo jars, old pickle jars… if its glass and has been washed out it is subject to becoming a cup.
Ooohhh. See this is what I’m talkin about. Good one Champ.
I too am gonna have to go with the concensus that the term is losing its relevance. For me, it never really had relevance. I had the interesting experience of expectations of Blackness being placed on me when I emigrated to the US. Funny thing was, I didn’t identify as Black/ African American- I identified as Ghanaian.
I just happened to like things stereotypically associated with ‘the Black experience’ because having rhythm, liking good tasting food and the like is hard wired into my DNA.
I’ll be back in the AM to finish/clarify this. Its sleepy time.
@blackberry molasses,
“Ooohhh. See this is what I’m talkin about. Good one Champ.”
if i had a dollar…
lol…seriously though, its interesting (but not surprising) how differently first or second gen. immigrants view the concept of “blackness”.
@The Champ,
“seriously though, its interesting (but not surprising) how differently first or second gen. immigrants view the concept of “blackness”.”
The world view with which we (immgrants) were raised is so different. Even more interesting is the fact that I emigrated from Canada, which somewhat mirrors the U.S. in terms of diversity. It too is a ‘salad bowl’ of sorts (melting pot was always stupid to me… it implies homogeneity, and we are anything but). The difference was, even if you were a brown person in Canada, your identity was more closely linked to your cultural heritage (i.e. being Jamaican, Haitian, Nigerian, Chinese, Japanese etc) than the color of your skin.
It wasn’t till I came here that I realized (and that my momma made explicitly clear) that regardless of where I come from, what language I speak etc. when people FIRST look at me, they see a Black woman– and there are certain assumptions that come along with that intial impression (whether they are correct or not).
What is even more interesting (and somewhat upsetting) to me is when people hear my full name and I get the question “So where are you from?” When I tell them, many of the “Black Woman” assumptions they may have initially had are either erased (ABW, possibly raised in the inner city, etc) or replaced with others (hard working, smart, extra cultured, exotic).
Its maddening I tell you. But its my experience.
@blackberry molasses,
i can totally identify with this, and i was born here…both of my parents were immigrants and i felt this weird disconnection from other black americans early on because, in reality, i wasnt a descendant of slaves….i never really knew what to do with it.
then i realized…it doesnt matter! im black…whether or not my parents are immigrants, my blackass gets treated just the same way that every other black person does…
I dont think the term loses its relevance I think the term expands to include all the new found experiences, we are one, unified in that even though we are different, we are one. Only black people deal with black stereotypes, black issues such as uncle toms, sell out, representing for all blacks having to do twice the work for same recognition we all want to live in a world and not have the face of crime painted black whether you believe its true or not..there are issues that are ours and while everyone will disagree on whether the cause is “the man” or laziness, or a combination of both I think we all realize there are some issues unique to being black..such as being forced to sit through the dayum coonery that is macdonalds “black” commercials….Why cant you share your love with me…..girl you got a 10 piece so dont be stingaaay…..WTF ever mcdoonalds…Wtf ever…..
@Shay-d-lady,
That Micky D commercial is sooo tragic – but that sh*t gets me laughing out loud erry time it comes on. Right when he says, “Don’t be so stingaaay”…..oh God…..
@Lil’T,
That ish is atrocious.
@miss t-lee,
how come no one called coonery on Tyrese pedaling that liquid cocaina?
gettin on the bus in a vest with no shirt looking like a runaway slave singing a negro spiritual about the great taste of coca-cola?
@Deviant,
That commerical was equally as bad. I was a junior in HS when that ish came out, and we clowned that commercial too.
@miss t-lee, um, i love that commercial. i sing along with it every time i see it. that’s quality ignorance right there. in fact, i’m not even sure its ignorance, its just parody. and a good one. me likey long time.
@Panama Jackson,
You probably like it because it reminds you of Ray-J.
::snicker::
@Panama Jackson,
It upsets me that I think youre right. I dont like the new Nuggets commercial but I can still sing all the words to the commercial for Burger King about ten years ago. It was “jazz themed” with a black woman scatting about two all beef patties, special sauce, lettuice, cheese, pickles, onions and a sesame seed bun.
I dont think I could forget that song if I tried.
@Dom,
OMG I loved that McDonald’s commercial and will still sing that joint.
I think it was Vesta and Al Jareau. I could be 110% wrong, though.
@Shay-d-lady, I want to slit my wrist and grind my teeth when that stupid A Mickie D commercial comes on!
Does ANYBODY besides me remember the kool-aid commercial where the boy is preparing to go to college, but before he leaves, his grandmother asks him, “Baby, when you go to college, who’s gon’ make your kool-aid???”
*Blink*
I don’t think I’ve ever been as angry at a commercial as I was at that one. The boy needs to be talking about financial aid and making the dean’s list and choosing a good major, but this decrepit hoe is wondering who’s going to make his kool-aid for him???
Really?
@8th Wonder,
I remember that ish….lawd…
@8th Wonder,
I don’t think I’ve ever been as angry at a commercial as I was at that one. The boy needs to be talking about financial aid and making the dean’s list and choosing a good major, but this decrepit hoe is wondering who’s going to make his kool-aid for him???
shiiiiiiiit, i know when i went to college, “who’s gonna make my kool-aid and cream of wheat now” was easily my most pressing issue. f*ck what ya heard
@The Champ
Didn’t you say you were an athlete in college? If you are what you say you are…a superstar…… then you should have had a line out the door of chicks wanting to make your cream of wheat and kool aid. Or maybe you weren’t what you said you were.
@V Renee, You know aint no chick makin kool aid and cream of wheat like Mommy
@V Renee,
Didn’t you say you were an athlete in college? If you are what you say you are…a superstar…… then you should have had a line out the door of chicks wanting to make your cream of wheat and kool aid
lol…every college athlete doesn’t live like the scene from “he got game”. plus, even if i had gaggles of groupies lining up to make my breakfast, i wouldnt want their janky hands on my hot cereal anyway
@V Renee, “If you are what you say you are…a superstar…… then you should have had a line out the door of chicks wanting to make your cream of wheat and kool aid”
*laughing uncontrollably*
Champ, I’m done with you.
@8th Wonder,
Champ, I’m done with you.
hmmm. we’ll see about that
@8th Wonder,
I vaguely remember this commercial. My brain has a natural proclivity towards constructing barriers to lock away memories of straight coontasticness. Its a self preservation tactic. Hypertension runs in my family, dammit and that would keep my pressha up.
But I do remember being perturbed.
I am also ready to burn down the ad agency that told Mickey D’s it was okay to have blatantly negroid commercials that only air on BET, TVOne, and during typically ‘black’ shows.
Yeah, i’mma catch an arson case for that one.
@blackberry molasses, “I am also ready to burn down the ad agency that told Mickey D’s it was okay to have blatantly negroid commercials that only air on BET, TVOne, and during typically ‘black’ shows.
Yeah, i’mma catch an arson case for that one.”
Why? That is the purpose of advertising . . . a positive is that these companies recognize the power of the black dollar and spent a good deal of money to put a commercial into rotation. If we want to see different commercials we have to change the way that these companies see us (a black ad exec probably got a promotion off of that commercial) but the good thing is that we are being seen. I think that commercial is funny. I am all for funny commercials.
This is the problem with all this dividing of the “black experience”. Money runs this country, if we segregate amongst ourselves, the power of our dollar declines . . . in my opinion. We are not all the same, or have the same experiences, but come on now . . . I can meet another 27 year old black male and trust that we have a few things in common . . . I’ve met some that we have NOTHING in common (old suburb types mostly) but I think we have a lot more in common than we admit.
@IVR,
I think my issue with these commercials goes back to the original question… is there a universal Black experience. Do Black people only watch “Black” channels or “Black” shows? Sure, they watch them in greater percentages and they are trying to capture their target audience. But what about other folks?
I guess I wouldn’t be so pissed about it if I saw even just a ‘smattering’ of those commercials during Dancing with the Stars, CSI or 24 as well. I watch those shows. I don’t even know what channel BET is anymore.
This part of it doesnt really upset me, because I know McDonald’s caters to whomever watches the channel the most…like the latin channels…you don’t see ANYBODY but them in the Mickey D’s commercials.
@8th Wonder, “This part of it doesnt really upset me, because I know McDonald’s caters to whomever watches the channel the most…like the latin channels…you don’t see ANYBODY but them in the Mickey D’s commercials.”
White ones of them (us).
@blackberry molasses,
I’m not sure I understand. . . if there was a channel whose target audience was essentially one homogenous group, then if I create advertising that targets specifically that group, that’s where it would air.
It doesn’t make sense to take the same ad and air it in some venue with different demographics (since it wasn’t made to have cross-demographic appeal). That’s just throwing away money.
@kamakula, targeted marketing is my day job so i can’t argue with this. there’s nothing wrong with targeted messages. you want to reach people with communications that will resonate with them. it’s all about how it is done.
i was talking about this with a partner from another agency on this project we were working on that was aimed at blacks and he was telling me how they did a study with commercials that are aimed at us and how when they viewed them, the audience could tell immediately if the commercial was written by black people or not.
i think the problem with those commercials are that a lot of the time (as with most media anyway) stuff that is aimed at us is not written by us and it comes off fake and stereotyped. *shrugs*
i think the problem with those commercials are that a lot of the time (as with most media anyway) stuff that is aimed at us is not written by us
good point
@8th and kama,
fair enough.
can i just say the commercials nauseate me as much as the food and keep it movin?
@blackberry molasses,
That commercial is branching out cause I saw it for the first time last night while watching Heroes.
Of course I live in a predom black city, so I guess they figured they’d hit their target no matter the channel.
@8th Wonder, not to down your anger or anything…*Black fist power*
…but, i mean, isn’t that reading a little bit too much into a commercial? is it not possible JUST as he’s leaving that that’s one of the minor details that his grandma didn’t think about. one of those reminders of home or something that his grandma knew how to make just right for him?
is it not possible that perhaps they had all of those other convos beforehand? if you want to overanalyze it one way, then make sure you overanalyze the ENTIRE situation.
@Panama Jackson,
no.
@8th Wonder, lol. good job.
you’re still wrong. but good job.
@Panama Jackson,
Wrong deez. lol
@8th Wonder,
but this decrepit hoe…
I choked on my coffee…
@8th Wonder,
I think who makes your Kool Aid is a valid qustion. Some people dont know how to make Kool Aid. college kids cant afford to buy juice every few days.
@8th Wonder, LMAO! I remember that commercial, and somewhere a confused overit was thinking the same thing! Especially about the financial aid part, like you really got your financial situation on lock homie? Not a care in the world but some damn koolaid?
I’m mad you call his grandmama a decrepit hoe though lol.
@Shay-d-lady, Am I the only one that likes the commercial? I dont think it was aimed at us well read, intelligent black folk who probably dont eat Mickey D’s that much anyway. I think we are more madd that there are black folk who that commercial will make go buy a 10 piece
@I’m from the “Peyso”nic Temple, i like it. i think folks who don’t like it need hugs.
@I’m from the “Peyso”nic Temple,
I found it funny. I actually thought it was being satirical as in, RnB singers nowadays would sing about anything and everything…
At least, that’s what I got out of it. Then again, I don’t eat McDonalds on the regular so I was probably not the target market.
@I’m from the “Peyso”nic Temple, LOL I do like to sang it…. why cant you share your love with meeeeee…..LMAO but it is coonery
I am going to have to say no, and argue that there is no such thing as a ‘ universal black experience’. As I am not an American , I understand my limited exposure to American race issues, but if one accepts that in the age of globalization, borders and identities are being redefined and permeated, one should also develop beyond the whole ‘black’ versus ‘white’ mentality, as the world is bigger than that.
I think in due time, there will be no racial identities, even national identity will be obsolete. An american is now able to work as an expat in singapore, take up residence in england, and have an ethnic background that is Nigerian. I see a world that will be post-national, post-race, and be cosmopolitan and complex. The world is bigger than georgia, or america, and progress will not come, if we cling to the racial system of slavery and pre-civil periods that group people into ‘black’ and ‘white’ boxes. There are African americans who have live in France, Somalians who are norwegian citizens, Chinese migrants in canada who are bilingual in english and french. The world is changing. The ‘black experience’ will cease to exist. An american american raised in germany will have absolutely nothing in common with someone brought up in the inner cities of baltimore. Should they only be defined by a shared history of slavery? I don’t think so.
I also recognize that to some individuals who have never left their defined border, all they know and cling to is this transparent ‘black experience’ that may not really exist, or is now irrelevant .
With that said, I think the pro-black movements, the civil rights movements, and the entire concept of ‘black identity’ is the reason why the world will one day move beyond this nationalistic/racial consciousness. So I dont deny its power, or value, but merely saying, it is now transparent and irrelevant.
Ialso recognize that to some individuals who have never left their defined border, all they know and cling to is this transparent ‘black experience’ that may not really exist, or is now irrelevant .
I think it is very relevant..what makes it unique is that it does occur only in America,.. I answered no above but now its a yes and no..there is commonality in our experience even if it is only the fact that at some point, this argument, the What is Black and Blackness argument happens.. every black person has a definition of blackness that they hold themselves and others to…to some its negativity and something they wish to distance themselves from..to others its power and pride…some people use the word to exclude others and have a very narrow view..whereas others (myself especially) think that the word is beautiful and unifying. I open the word up to include all people of color…Black is encompassing, its a safe haven for all of us over pigmented folk..you dont have to choose between your culture and being black ….you can be both…and your experience here in America then becomes a shared experience and is like you state in your post unlike anything you will experience anywhere else good or bad
@postmodern pwnage,
I think in due time, there will be no racial identities, even national identity will be obsolete.
you know, i actually think the national identity will keep its relevance much longer than the racial one. while i can maybe name 5-10 things in my life that are “uniquely” black, i’d be here all day listing sh*t thats unique to america
@The Champ, I agree, but in due time, we will all be done with these labels. Sadly, as with many things in life, the low-income brackets of most societies will be not included in this process. For example, the Rwandan peasant worker might always just be a Tutsi in his homeland, as he is excluded from the globalization process, but some business guy in Sweden will have his identity shaped by his exposure to the world, as he travels from spot to spot looking for economic opportunities.This is already happening with the joining of the Europeans as a one regional community, the European Union, where a Frenchman can just pick up his bags and move to Denmark as if he were moving from Chicago to New York. Again, I agree with you, and my predictions are regarding the distant future.
Oh, and the American identity will be the last one to go, as it will be the most potent and stubborn lol
P.S. High five on the topic!
@postmodern pwnage,
P.S. High five on the topic!
thanks and sh*t
A very thought-provoking post. What joins us is our history; although we’re all unique because of our different life experiences.
We know we’re different…that we don’t all think alike…like the same things, act the same way, etc; but others in society seem to want to group us all together.
@Shelia,
thanks and sh*t
There isn’t a unifying black experience. However, we naturally look to what is familiar. I’m more likely to have common experiences with someone from my neighbourhood, who coincidentally because I grew up in Africa, just happened to be black, the same way now where am more likely to have lot more in common with someone in the UK that went to the same school as me (mainly white), than someone from Alaska/Chicago/Beijing/Rio De Janeiro.
It’s time to move beyond the skin colour, being black is merely inherited genes. Who we are as individuals is so much more complex, and varied, and shared commonalities, be it religion, class, interests… Back in the day, being black, commanalities that bonded black communities together, despite you hating your loud-ass, ghetto-acting next door neighbour was the fact that you were consistently discriminated against, despite differences.
The other one is the assumption that all Africans are the same, so might as well treat it as a country.
@kmplx,
“The other one is the assumption that all Africans are the same, so might as well treat it as a country”
See, this shat right here pisses me off!!!
@kmplx,
welcome and sh*t
@kmplx,
“The other one is the assumption that all Africans are the same, so might as well treat it as a country.”
This too pisses me off. Thank colonialism and neo-colonialism for that one.
… and just because I feel like throwing her under the bus, you’ve got to thank SARAH PALIN as well.
@blackberry molasses,
Some heffa had the nerve to ask me if I know Waziri from Tanzania (after she found out I’m from South Africa)! I swear I wanted to cut that bitch’s heart out with a spoon! And then, she had the audacity to look at me all funny when i asked her if she knew Francoise from Canada!
@YGB,
Hilarious!!!!
@YGB,
I feel your pain. I love how the especially ‘aware’ 2520 folk who took an African language class in college will swear I can speak it, ‘because, you’re African!’
“I can speak a language, several in fact, including French. But Linden, sweetie, I don’t speak Ki-Swahili because that’s the OTHER SIDE OF THE CONTINENT. Mmmmkay?”
(this was an excerpt from a real conversation. Linden gave me her best crunchy granola girl screwface)
Hmmm. This post is different from your usual. Anyway, Champ, I’m guessing that even though I think you grew up and live in the DC Metro area aka Chocolate City (or is that Panama?) you have been discriminated against but just don’t know it yet.
We can start with your blog. Got any/ many white readers? Probably not. Why is that? Take a guess.
That, and these below, could be universal black experiences.
Did your white co-workers (if you have any) assume you were voting for Obama?
Ever notice the owner of a store was following you (or your kids) around or watching you as you shopped?
Do you feel slightly defensive, ashamed or embarrassed to admit you don’t go to church in front of other blacks who do?
Do you feel that even if you aren’t a regular church goer, you’d be especially welcome in the black church in a crisis?
Does the thought of rejection by the parents of someone you’re dating from another race cross your mind?
If you’re dressed in your casual (thugged out, do-rag baggy pants sneakers) attire, do you wonder if white folks will assume you’ve been to jail or use drugs? And resent that a white guy the same age can dress in shitty jeans and a tee shirt and not get the assumptions about him? Does this impact the way you dress when you show up for appointments, like the doctor, dentist, real estate person, IRS, or simply be on vacation in Disney World and want to eat dinner at one of the hotels where the white folks dress down but stare at you?
Being black, would you balk at signing a lease in a place where the white landlord has a thick Southern accent and racism written all over them… and would you balk if you were white?
Ever compare your grade to a white classmate and know good and dayum well your essay was better but they got an A while you got a C?
Ever compare the questions your supervisor asks you while in your private supervisory sessions to those of your white colleagues? Warning: doing this could raise your blood pressure.
Ever been racially profiled while driving?
Have you spent a lot of time thinking about black folks hair texture in your life and have strong opinions in how it affects you personally, ie, do you worry that you won’t make as great an impression in your loks, dreds, and afro?
Ever realize that one of the reasons black folks die younger is because a lot of white docs still don’t run tests that you beg them too until the problem is so advanced that it’s noticeable? Nah, most of y’all are too young for that, but think about Aunt Jackie or your grandparents.
Ladies, ever have a gynecologist insult the hell out of you by checking for STDs in areas that you wouldn’t dream of being sexually active in and told them this, but they did it anyway?
Parents, ever have a white pediatrician talk ‘black’ to your young son, give him the high five and all that nonsense that he doesn’t do with little white kids? What message is he really giving?
And maybe most universally, did the treatment of Hurricane Katrina victims make you want to cry because you knew racism was a factor? And was that event a wake up call that if that could happen, yo azz is vulnerable in any civil emergency b/c of your race?
Those are just a few that come to mind.
@Kit (Keep It Trill),
So it seems as you’re defining the “universal black experience” as being subject to stereotypes. I disagree. We can’t define what it means to be black through the actions and/or beliefs of others. Really, we can’t define what it means to be “black” period.
@Deviant
I don’t think she was defining the “universal black experience”, but challenging Champ on his statement of not experiencing racisim.
K.I.T – GREAT comment!
@V Renee,
Nah. She said in her comment that those things “could be universal black experiences.”
@Deviant,
I don’t think a “universal black experience” is something that defines what it means to be black. Instead, it would necessarily have to be something that everyone who is black seems to go through because of their race.
So, this experience would have to be outside the bounds of what would define black culture.
@kamakula,
But if we’re calling it a “black experience” don’t we need to know what “black” means?
@Deviant,
yes, we do. I feel “black” is a very much westernized term and in the context of this blog and discussion, i think it should be defined as a person who identifies his culture and ancestry as predominantly composed by the descendants of slaves within the continental united states.
@kamakula,
but what if your ancestors came here as free men/women? And I don’t mean recently but during the colonization of these states which are united.
@Kit (Keep It Trill),
Thank you for this whole comment. Dam* Shame I could answer yes to so many of them.
With folks in younger generations, who didnt live through the civil rights movement, we often dont see how veiled racism and stereotypes are still prevalent in our society. Just because you’ve never been called a ni**er to your face doesnt mean you havent experienced racism.
@Kit (Keep It Trill), “Ladies, ever have a gynecologist insult the hell out of you by checking for STDs in areas that you wouldn’t dream of being sexually active in and told them this, but they did it anyway?”
where exactly..umm are the other areas? …this was a good post. I’ll have to marinate over the others.
@Kit (Keep It Trill),
hey, i’m just gonna repost your questions and highlight my answers underneath
***btw…p lives in dc. i dwell in the burgh (pittsburgh, pa)***
We can start with your blog. Got any/ many white readers? Probably not. Why is that? Take a guess.
i’d guess that roughly 90 percent of our readers are black. i’d also say that probably 80 percent of our readers are college grads, and that 99 percent or our readers fall within the 18-35 demographic. i don’t see how discrimination even matters in this case
Did your white co-workers (if you have any) assume you were voting for Obama?
i have two of them, and they never had a chance to assume sh*t since i’ve been rocking an obama pin on my atache since 2007, lol
Ever notice the owner of a store was following you (or your kids) around or watching you as you shopped?
personally, no. and, to be honest, if i ran a corner store or something, i’d keep my eyes on the kids in the store too, because middle school aged kids, regardless of race, steal sh*t, lol
Do you feel slightly defensive, ashamed or embarrassed to admit you don’t go to church in front of other blacks who do?
no. again though, what does this have to do with racial discrimination?
Do you feel that even if you aren’t a regular church goer, you’d be especially welcome in the black church in a crisis?
yes.
Does the thought of rejection by the parents of someone you’re dating from another race cross your mind?
never dated outside of my race, so i’m not really able to answer that. i will say, though, that i’ve been nervous about meeting the parents of each of the women i’ve cared deeply about, and thought about “rejection” or disapproval
If you’re dressed in your casual (thugged out, do-rag baggy pants sneakers) attire, do you wonder if white folks will assume you’ve been to jail or use drugs? And resent that a white guy the same age can dress in shitty jeans and a tee shirt and not get the assumptions about him? Does this impact the way you dress when you show up for appointments, like the doctor, dentist, real estate person, IRS, or simply be on vacation in Disney World and want to eat dinner at one of the hotels where the white folks dress down but stare at you?
no, no, and yes, when meeting people in a non-casual setting, i am mindful of my appearance. this isn’t a black thing as much as a “grown-ass man” thing though.
Being black, would you balk at signing a lease in a place where the white landlord has a thick Southern accent and racism written all over them… and would you balk if you were white?
no. if i made assumptions based on his accent i’d be just as bad as a white man making negative generalizations about me. plus, if the guy was truly racist, we wouldnt have even made it to the signing stage, lol
Ever compare your grade to a white classmate and know good and dayum well your essay was better but they got an A while you got a C?
no. when i got c’s, it was deserved.
Ever compare the questions your supervisor asks you while in your private supervisory sessions to those of your white colleagues? Warning: doing this could raise your blood pressure.
i’ve never had a white boss/manager/supervisor.
Ever been racially profiled while driving?
no. i’m aware that this happens, though. it just hasnt happened to me **knocking on wood**
Have you spent a lot of time thinking about black folks hair texture in your life and have strong opinions in how it affects you personally, ie, do you worry that you won’t make as great an impression in your loks, dreds, and afro?
i’ve had the same cut (a low ceaser) for over a decade now, so that issue never concered me personally
Ever realize that one of the reasons black folks die younger is because a lot of white docs still don’t run tests that you beg them too until the problem is so advanced that it’s noticeable? Nah, most of y’all are too young for that, but think about Aunt Jackie or your grandparents.
this is one way of looking at it. another way is saying that too many of us partake in behavior that directly leads to chronic health problems, and also that the blacks who do have good coverage don’t take proper advantage of it (read “me”)
And maybe most universally, did the treatment of Hurricane Katrina victims make you want to cry because you knew racism was a factor? And was that event a wake up call that if that could happen, yo azz is vulnerable in any civil emergency b/c of your race?
yes, i was extremely upset, but because of their treatment…not my “newfound” vulnerably
again, i know that my experience may be atypical, but i can only speak from my own experience in this regard.
@The Champ, “i’ve never had a white boss/manager/supervisor. ”
That was probably the most shocking thing you said lol.
It both worries me and excites me that some of you very lucky people have not experienced the demon that is blatant racism. I live (born and raised) in the bible belt south. I experience some veiled form of racism daily. See, we haven’t gotten the equal memo to all the “good ole boys”.
@SouthernBelle, ” See, we haven’t gotten the equal memo to all the “good ole boys”.”
I do not believe there to be such a memo. I think white guilt combined with a selective memory lulls them and a few of us to believe “those” days are over. I do not believe them to be over, I still believe a black person has to work twice as hard to achieve as much as a white counterpart with comparable education.
On another note, I don’t think we, as black americans, should be trying to just do away with what binds us in an effort to assimilate into this new changed America with a black president. As long as there is one racist still left we should all be able to band together when the time calls for it. Strength is in numbers.
@IVR, “I do not believe there to be such a memo. I think white guilt combined with a selective memory lulls them and a few of us to believe “those” days are over”
I’m torn here. Or maybe I have a selective memory (read: coping mechanism) that refuses me to believe that ANYBODY has a certain power over my life that directly affects my life path, purpose, career and pocketbook.
And I grew up in a neighborhood and attended a school (for 5 years one of 4 black kids) with tons of “growing pains” regarding racial sensitivity. And the few things that happened DIRECTLY to me hasn’t kept money out of my pocket. I’d argue if it was even “textbook racisim”. Also having two southern born and raised parents I got the historical memo, and though I acknowledge and hold a certain amount of reverence and even gratitude for the “struggle”..I’d be a liar if I pretended that their experience was mine.
maybe my perception keeps me in denial…and im not sure what part of the “black experience” that falls into. lol.
@Princess Duvet, “I’m torn here. Or maybe I have a selective memory (read: coping mechanism) that refuses me to believe that ANYBODY has a certain power over my life that directly affects my life path, purpose, career and pocketbook.”
No, I believe that because I have to. Whether it is true or not . . . I am a bit more cynical. But I will do what I have to do to get to where I have to go. I left the military as an E-4 a few months ago and took a GS-13 starting in the government. . . do you know how many of those white (civilian) people in Alaska were mad at me? Like my resume built itself and someone else interviewed for me. I did things those lazy people with 20 – 25 years in would never even bother to ask. They would smile in my face and talk sh!t to people who would turn around and tell me about it. I know it is mostly because I am 27 and they are old as hell, but do I think somewhere in the back of their mind they aren’t thinking . . .”didn’t these n!ggas just get the right to vote? How is this little n!gga gonna be MY boss”
It would be a little naive of me to believe that my career will not be affected by race (whether for the better or for the worse) because a lot of these objective professional ratings are not so objective. What I do carry in my heart everyday I walk into this building is that I have to work twice as hard as a white person to be equal (words of my grandmother). Strangely, where I work now all of my bosses are black. . . up through the SES . . . not the presidential appointees but I dont ever see those people.
I have seen racism myself, from being racially profiled while driving (do you have a body in the trunk. . .the cop thought this question was funny), to being spoken down to, even by latinos talking about me in Spanish, my mother’s first language. My family has had to adjust their “culture” to combat stereotypes of black (african american) people towards foreigners, so much so that they lost their first language because my grandparents forced everyone to ONLY speak english. Now being bilingual is a marketable talent, and I am the only one in my generation that is fluent (because I majored in it and only talked to latinas for a very long time). I went to school with white folks in southern brooklyn where I have been called a mulian or however on earth racist Italians refer to black people. . .I have been there (think jungle fever for the non new yorkers) . . . even if in jest, one would have to assume that these little Italian Americans would get home and hear the same sh!t from their parents. I refuse to be in denial. I don’t think any of us should be. Regardless of where you come from . . . once you step onto American soil and you are close to black, you are black . . . you can fight it if you want to by forcing the individual nature of your struggle . . . but it’s not as complex as people would like to make it, at least I refuse to believe that.
@IVR, “I refuse to be in denial. I don’t think any of us should be. Regardless of where you come from . . . once you step onto American soil and you are close to black, you are black . . . you can fight it if you want to by forcing the individual nature of your struggle ”
IVR I have a deep awareness of my blackness. I can “out Black American history” most black folks I know. I also understand what its like as a kid to have had something done to me which DIRECTLY jeopordized my safety, that would have NEVER happened if I was white. I am sure of it.
but for me to lament over it everday as a grown @zz woman, where does that get me. Though I’m rarely ever stopped I had a 2520 cop ask me once over and over if the car I was driving belonged to me (when my registration name/addy matched my license name/addy)..as in this “girl” can NOT own this car. She just CAN NOT. He had to let me go. The car was mine.
but is that racisim? In a strange way I feel in some regard my life is enhanced by some of the bullshyt. I have a lot of appreciation everytime I see a street light, a mobile phone, an almanac, a flat iron, an elevator..I can’t live my life without acknowledging all the stuff black people did IN SPITE of..
so who am i to really complain?
@Princess Duvet, I think we are kinda on the same page here . . . all I am saying is that it is not the time for us to forget and assimilate. I don’t live my life calling w/p saltines . . . but I do understand that we are not equal yet. . .we will be. . maybe when everyone is beige and speaks some gibberish mashup of all the languages here in America (that episode of South Park was HILARIOUS). . . but today is not that day . . . I suppose we can agree to disagree . . .fair?
@IVR, “but I do understand that we are not equal yet”
i rebuke that message…cause I aint never felt unequal in my life. Nor do I see black people COLLECTIVELY this way.
I will say this looking down thread to the discussion on DNA..there are still huge disparities and in our justice system. Black men doing time for crimes that they never committed…and some sentenced to death (that now DNA is only able to uncover).
And I would agree THAT’s racisim. But even still, how many black folk just complain about it. I know VERY few black lawyers who work and try to get cases like these over turned in their spare time. Those black folk can complain, because they are actively doing their part to help those that are in different circumstances.
…the rest of us (ie this generation) with some exceptions have it relatively easy.
@Princess Duvet, So in your eyes the playing field has been levelled from the hundreds of years of unequal treatment? Now we are good? I don’t agree, I’m gonna say that I don’t know how I feel about affirmative action and I dont want any of that for me, personally, but as far as having it easy . . . we may have it easier then people getting beaten down and sprayed with hoses. But saying it’s easy or equal is not true. You may be a lucky one, but the remnants of inequality are still very present in our inner cities where black folk make up the majority.
I am not a complainer. . . this is a forum to talk about it . . . I don’t let it affect me. I don’t care what white folks do, as long as I get my paycheck, if that stops coming then I will have to look into some social reform, until then, not my problem. I have dealt with all of the bad things that have happened in my life and continue to strive, but does everyone have to be as strong? They (you know who’s) don’t? I have seen the effects on my family. People are like crabs in a bucket, my aunt was one of these lawyers that you speak about and ended up getting sued by a hater (one of our folk that she tried to help). After she spent all kindsa money to get out of this predicament she ran for District Attorney of Brooklyn trying to CONTINUE to help more people (to repeal the Rockefeller laws that I think are still on the books/equating non violent narcotic drug crimes to murder) just to be the subject of a racist campaign conducted by Brooklyn’s Republican party raising allegations like she registered her father, my grandfather, to vote. . .Dude’s been dead for years. This is a woman that is a lawyer and a pharmacist and she still lives in the hood. It used to be her choice, now I don’t think it is so.
I am glad that you seem to be doing well and you can say, honestly, that YOU don’t see it like that but that is a micro view of a macro problem. I KNOW it is like that . . . I have just taken the stance that I am going to get ME to a good place before I help ANYONE. I applaud the lawyers, like my aunt, who do assist. But if I chose that profession, I wouldnt help a DAMN soul until I know that I am MORE than good.
@IVR,
I am so glad that you are sharing your story, especially the story of your aunt. If more people felt socially responsible then the burden of the whole community wouldn’t rest on the shoulders of a few who are trying to make things better. There are years and years and years of evils and injustices to try and right… and when only a few feel equipt or even have the drive to try and give back then the burden is too great. If we all pitched in to make our communities better instead of passing the buck then maybe those who do get lucky wouldn’t so easily say that so many folks are “complainers”. There is a black underclass. The struggle of Haitians isn’t that (well beyond the fact that they are starving and have no industry and really need our help http://www.wfp.org) different than the struggle of inner city Black folks in DC or Baltimore, or anywhere else. those who have been blessed with the fortune of a loving family, strong home, education and money feel blessed and fortunate cause that’s what you are…
@IVR,
“So in your eyes the playing field has been levelled from the hundreds of years of unequal treatment?”
From my eyes MY playing field is level, and this is coming from my “the little engine that could” adolescent perspective. Everything that a person thinks they know about me TODAY and where I came from (without me clarifying) is wrong.
I’m well aware of Black American History. I have family stories of the rides on back of buses, racially restrictive deeds, police brutality and unfairness..so I “get it”.
But I also know that sheer will and determination can level a field. Sometimes it aint meant for you to go in the front door. And sometimes “No” doesn’t mean because you’re Black (got da#mn i sound like a repub lol). Money is green. And when you can show anybody that…they’ll hire a five legged alien.
And this is in no way is to be dissmissive of actual things that happen to us because of our race, but I…me… my 2008 black self is well equipped to deal with those injustices and to help others as well.
and really and truly the very people who should be angry..like mad as he!ll are the one’s who lead the movement, smartly, peaceably and strategically.
“People are like crabs in a bucket, my aunt was one of these lawyers that you speak about and ended up getting sued by a hater (one of our folk that she tried to help). ”
I don’t have all the answers. I’m sorry this happened to your aunt. But I always believe that things like this never go unnoticed. Goodwill is returned in kind and most often not even from the person you directly helped.
My closing remarks…perception is everything. Alot of the black pioneers that I look up to today might not have ever made it if they focused on how unfair it all was. Its possible to acknowledge the treatment and have a certain respect for continued “struggle”…without getting crushed in the undercurrent. I’m really am grateful for it all.
@SouthernBelle,
I feel ya girl.
The 2520′s try to be slick with it, but I bust ‘em out erry chance I get…lol
@SouthernBelle, oh yes… although Kentucky isn’t universally considered the South, they have a southern mentality.
I still remember as a elementary schooler, me and my little brother walking home from the bus stop a car full of Others (as I like to call them) drove past shouting N****ers! They had on jackets from the very same high school that I’d be entering in a few years.
I remember the feeling still. I wanted to cry. That hurt me and I think that was the first time I realized I was different.. I remember it angered my little brother, who was a little kid.
@Nicki Sunshine,
I consider Kentucky the South.
Heck my brother went to boot camp up that way and told me parts of that state were downright scary.
@miss t-lee, It really is… when you get outside of Louisville or Lexington, you’d better be home before the lights out. Heck, we have KKK rallys in some of these counties
@Nicki Sunshine,
See…that’s exactly what he was telling me. He was up there in ’90-91 @ Ft. Knox and he said it was like it was still 1965 in some of them surrounding areas.
@miss t-lee, Ft. Knox is crazy… once you get off the base, it’s straight pickin cotton.
@Nicki Sunshine,
This must have been what he was referring to…lol
@miss t-lee,
I consider Kentucky the South.
lol, sh*t, i consider cincinnati the south
@The Champ,
Dayum.
@miss t-lee,
have you been there? cincy might not even be in america, much less ohio, lol
@The Champ,
No I’ve never been to Cincy…but the way ya’ll talk about it, it’s definitely not on my top 10 list of cities to visit.
@SouthernBelle, as a Southerner as well, I’m often amazed at folks that have never had to deal (I do agree that there are people who are just naive enough to not realize it though) with overt and blatant racism.
and the strange part is, much like you, I’m not completely sure how I feel about it. There are some things I think people need to experience to truly understand what life’s like. Then again, I usually only feel that way about people who just refuse to believe that everybody isn’t equal, or that the past is the past and that’s just it.
Hell, I went to a high school where one of the quotes in our senior yearbook actually said, “The South will Rise again…and you know what that means!”
Similarly, one of the funniest moments I’ve seen in a long time happened in DC when my best friend from high school and I were walking along the National Mall and I saw a (clearly) redneck fellow with a t-shirt on that said:
“If I’d known it’d be like this, I’d have picked my own damn cotton.”
Man, that was the most inane yet hilarious thing I’ve seen in a long time. He wore that IN WASHINGTON DC aka CHOCOLATE CITY!
@Panama Jackson,
“If I’d known it’d be like this, I’d have picked my own damn cotton.”
Hilarious.
I’ve got plenty of stories. The one that sticks out most is one I was discussing with my Dad last night.
I was working part-time at a local department store at the handbag counter. This ancient 2520 lady walked up to the counter and I had my back turned to her and she yells to me, “hey there gal (yes gal!) I need to see this purse.”
No excuse me, no hello. Hey there gal. Are you serious? I’m thinking this is 2001 right? Apparently not in her mind.
I turned around, looked at her and walked off.
I came back about 30 minutes later, I don’t know who helped her out, but it sure wasn’t me…lol
@miss t-lee,
oh, is it sharing time?!? I have one.
I lived in STL and it was Christmastime. I went to the mall out in the burbs and had 2(!) experiences nearly back to back. One was by accident, the other, a social experiment.
The first was when I went to a department store jewelry counter. I wanted to buy my mom a necklace. I was the next person in line at a pretty crowded counter, but it was obvious I was next to be served (I was practically sitting on the counter). The woman looked me dead in the face, and called the 2520 gentleman behind me to be helped. He pointed out to her “Um, I think this young lady was ahead of me.” The woman completely disregarded his statement and proceeded to ask him what he wanted to see. He told her again “This young lady was here before me.” I guess she didn’t like being instructed to serve the negress first, because she walked away from both of us. I left and took my money with me.
The second instance happened when I met up with my friend. She is very light with long curly hair and can easily pass for white. We walked into a Coach store seperately from each other. I got followed around the store and whenever I picked up a bag to look at it, the lady seemed extra ready to help. Meanwhile my friend had picked up 2 bags and was walking around the store with them… no one even looked at her.
@miss t-lee,
I have one too.
I was in Bloomingdales in a white, affluent community outside of Boston. I was walking around in the shoe department in the dead of winter with my heavy coat, hat and gloves on. This old 2520 lady walks right up to me and says “I need this shoe in a size 6.” I was so stunned I just stood there thinking “I cant believe this ish is happening in 2002!” Luckily her grandaughter came over and told her grandma that I didnt work there and pulled her away from me. I was in high school but I still felt like crying.
@Panama Jackson,
“If I’d known it’d be like this, I’d have picked my own damn cotton.”
Man, that was the most inane yet hilarious thing I’ve seen in a long time. He wore that IN WASHINGTON DC aka CHOCOLATE CITY!
lol…dude must have had nuts the size of, ummm, something with big nuts
Story time:
I was walking into Target right after work ( so I’m dressed nicely w/ dress pants,a nice shirt and these hot fire pumps on) while walking in a white grandmother and her mentally retarded granddaughter (who looked to be about 20-30 yrs old) were walking in right behind me. The granddaughter says ‘grandma, why don’t people like blacks?’ the grandma says WHAAAAAAT?! so the granddaughter asks again. the grandma slows down walking and starts whispering.. I wanted to turn around and ask ‘yea grandma.. why don’t people like blacks?’
not even 20 minutes later I’m walking through the aisle and this fat white dude on a scooter stops me and says ooooh Tyra Banks sister! I laughed to be socially acceptable to his lame joke. but in my head I’m thinking just b/c i’m tall (5″11 in flats and probably 6″3 that day b/c of my pumps) and brown skin I look like Tyra?! So he’s talking to me.. and after about 5 mins of this long awkward conversation about place mats and tea kettles he says ‘hi my name is Rex, what’s yours?’ I respond that my name is Lauren. He pauses, looks me up and down and says, hmmm thats a nice name.. then proceeds to talk about how black mothers don’t like to give their children white names of slave owners. and how they start to make up these weird names like combing names together. I could feel where he was coming from b/c I am averse to names that i have so aptly titled ‘scrabble tiles thrown up against a wall’ but I wouldn’t reveal that to him.. So I continued to smile and nod. But i wasn’t sure how I should feel about these two occurences
@Ms. L,
“not even 20 minutes later I’m walking through the aisle and this fat white dude on a scooter stops me and says ooooh Tyra Banks sister! I laughed to be socially acceptable to his lame joke. but in my head I’m thinking just b/c i’m tall (5?11 in flats and probably 6?3 that day b/c of my pumps) and brown skin I look like Tyra?! ”
Maybe he just finds Tyra attractive and thought you were attractive too. Sometimes, it’s not all about race. Obviously he likes the chocolate if he was trying to discuss tea kettles and place mats. He was just trying to get you to break him off a piece of that kit-kat bar.
@Deviant,
LOL! never thought of it that way. I think I am just UBER sensitive to all things racial right now w/ the election and being enrolled in a multicultural education class in grad school.. annnnnd he was quite replusive to me.. looking like this: http://rds.yahoo.com/_ylt=A0WTefjkuD5JrVcA_kOjzbkF/SIG=12acuo9uv/EXP=1228933732/**http%3A//glaadorg.nexcess.net/cinequeer/BruceVilanch.jpg
@Ms. L,
first, welcome and sh*t. secondly…
“not even 20 minutes later I’m walking through the aisle and this fat white dude on a scooter stops me and says ooooh Tyra Banks sister”
…although this made me laugh aloud, i think you need some more people, lol
@Ms. L,
I would be remiss of my duties if I didn’t welcome you with a generous sprinkling of
**Diva Dust ™**
though my days supply is runnin low.
SouthernGirl will be along shortly with gold stars for you.
@Ms. L,
I am running dangerously low on supply today but I managed to dig up a few extra ones from my secret stash.
Welcome! *gold stars*
@Panama Jackson, “The South will Rise again…and you know what that means!”
Well damn.
Crazy thing is, if you look at a sport like swimming in the olympics, even in the countries that are 90% black, have a white rep from that country. lol. demz jus dont likes da water.
As far as the black experience goes, it does depend on class/age/size/light skin/dark skin. So I don’t think there is a universal experience so to speak.
@jana.love,
lol…in hindsight, i think i was probably watching alot of swimming and gymnastics when i asked my dad that question.
The black experience to me would be having to work harder and be smarter just to be equal. As a black you have to go through more hoops, you have to 110% to their 100%. You might not have experienced racial discrimination but you have had to work hard to get to where you are.
“Good better best, never let it rest, till your good is better and your better is best”
@J. McFly,
The black experience to me would be having to work harder and be smarter just to be equal
i wanna say this is true, but i can think of a number of people offhand who actually have had to work less hard in their field/career because they were black.
@The Champ,
Then that is sad, because eventually in life all of us are tested and you need to be ready for that test
“…is there an all-encompassing, all-unifying “black experience“…? ”
No.
Perfect example– that farce that CNN tried to shove down our throats. Black In America. I mean, they tried, but that just goes to show you can’t nail us down.
Everyone’s struggle is so different from the next person’s.
@miss t-lee, you know, i think the problem with CNN’s Black In America is that they just didn’t know how to approach it. they were like, let’s just talk to Black people and voila.
hell, they never even asked anybody “what do you think it means to be Black in America?”
i only fault them so much b/c they just really got in over their heads.
@Panama Jackson,
I feel you.
@ The Champ
thing is, what exactly does the black experience mean? in today’s america, where class distinctions are beginning to take full precedence over racial ones, how is the “universal black experience” determined?
Got a bit confused by ur post: Are you asking about the “universal black experience” or are you referring to the black american experience?
@YGB,
Yes, Champ, I wanna know too.
@YGB,
i’m referring to black american.
I’d say the black experience is being able to look in the mirror and having not been on vacation in the winter time and glow. The black experience is knowing I need some lotion. The black experience is knowing I have ancestors who made it through the Diaspora and ancestors who put em through it. My black experience is diff. cuz I grew up in one of the most segregated areas of America; Gary, IN. Then I went to a HBCU
and now, now I am in 313 world. I get scared when driving through country areas. (like I just watched texas chainsaw massacre & the great debaters). Driving while colored is real. But shoot who am I tellin? I ain’t never scared just nervous when I got to talk to the police. But I’ll BEAT A COPS SSA! Then again I grew up about 90 min from the diner where the triple k’s were rumored to have been founded. blaah blah blaah
@WuDaMan, “The black experience is knowing I need some lotion.”
LOL
i would agree..moisturzing dat @zz is a shared and collective REQUIREMENT and experience.
Thats one of the reason “vaseline” is still in business….because of black people…even the bougie one’s who mix it with their la mer, kiehl’s etc. etc.
@Princess Duvet,
So do ashy people get their card pulled? Cause I have some folks to report.
@Lil’T, ***points to Lil T*** come up to the podium and share whose been ashy in your life.
***steps down***
@Princess Duvet,
I’ma let this person into the “Ashy Protection Program” – if he were exposed they may really pull his card!
@Lil’T, not I.
I have my moisturization game on lock.
@miss t-lee,
*throws up black power fist*
Right on sister!
@WuDaMan,
lol…I have a problem…lol
@Princess Duvet,
“Thats one of the reason “vaseline” is still in business….because of black people…even the bougie one’s who mix it with their la mer, kiehl’s etc. etc.”
I just got cold busted… *raises hand* I am one of these people…
@blackberry molasses,
Baby oil gel is the truth.
Layered under the lotion…lol
@miss t-lee,
oooohhh – that’s the mix right theerrr! I thought I was on some ole next level sh*t when I started mixing baby oil with the lotion, and then the gel came along and made the whole process cleaner.
@Lil’T,
See…you sound like someone as obsessed with the non-ashyness and softness as I am…lol
@miss t-lee, “Baby oil gel is the truth.”
I have to rebuke the baby oil gel, Miss T..some of that stuff is hard to get out of clothes…say if you’re having a particularly ashy day and you have to re-moisturize your situation…lol
@Princess Duvet,
That’s why you put it on when you’re fresh from the shower. It will bind with the water and then when you towel off, Voila!!Excess is gone. You stay moisturized all day…lol
@miss t-lee, especially the cocoa butter baby oil gel, it is the troof!!!!
@Relax, Relate, Alise,
You’re a girl after my own heart!!!
@Relax, Relate, Alise,
oh h3lls yeah! vaseline was on point when they came out with that right thurr
and it smells yummy too… like i slept in brazil nut butter or something.
@miss t-lee,
My new concoction is varying amounts of the following:
natural shea butter(solid but softened) + jergens shea butter + Palmer’s Cocoa Butter Formula Moisturizing Body Oil.
I try to keep my situation moisutrized.
@Ms. Sula, imma call you carol’s daughter LOL…and see if we can get you on HSN after huggable hangers on Dec 16th..are you available.
@Ms. Sula,
Yeah I love that natural shea butter as well. I always mix it with some type of oil, normally egyptian musk for the scent.
You’ve got the game on lock as well I see.
@blackberry molasses, “I just got cold busted… *raises hand* I am one of these people”
black folk be playin chemists with lotion…
Damn, how ashy ARE yall? lol…
@8th Wonder, On the ashy continuum (where 1 is delusional and naturally moisturized and 10 is My extremely ashy Uncle Richard)… I would say I am a 7.78790 straight out the bathtub after say 35 mins. That is something I am not in denial about.
@Princess Duvet,
And I’d have to say I’m about an 8. Moisturization is a top priority of my life! I was hip to Vase-lotion (my own concotion) long before it became a profitable market!
Matter of fact I meant to bring in a new bottle from home today and forgot. Now I have to use that ol’ 2520 watered down lotion in the bathroom…
@Dom, some type of conspiracy in some of that 2520 stuff it makes me ashier.
@Princess Duvet,
Yep…like Suave lotion.
I’m convinced that ish is 99.8% water anyway…lol
@Princess Duvet,
@8th Wonder, On the ashy continuum (where 1 is delusional and naturally moisturized and 10 is My extremely ashy Uncle Richard)… I would say I am a 7.78790 straight out the bathtub after say 35 mins. That is something I am not in denial about.
what would your score be if you could write your full name on your forearm?
@The Champ,
17
@The Champ, thats ash that can’t even be measured.
@8th Wonder,
girl you KNOW it is winter. Old Man Winter likes to suck moisture out of me like its the essence of life.
@blackberry molasses,
Old Man Winter likes to suck moisture out of me
…………………………………………
@The Champ, to the corner Champ>>>>>>
@8th Wonder,
okay true story. I’m @ the infamous taco place on 5th ave. In walks this big t-shirt shorts and sandals wearing bald headed big mole between the eyebrows. (I think there may have been forceps indentation marks on this guy’s head [think Chunk {or whatever the big guy’s name was} from goonies]). & who did he walk in there w/ this wanna wear a brown lacey satin spaghetti strapped big guh. I mean he n she caused a silent up roar of laughter. Since they was so big and considering the part of town people wouldn’t want to test them. smh ya boy was ashy on ever piece of exposed skin. even the mole was ashy. He looked like he worked @ a baby powder factory and there was an explosion but he was naked when it happened. Ashy Larry ain’t got nothing on him.
@WuDaMan,
The black experience is knowing I have ancestors who made it through the Diaspora and ancestors who put em through it
thats the thing. is this the black american experience or your black america experience
@The Champ,
Touche`
My point that has yet to be disputed though is the contrast in ashy to non ashy skin.
& you know good n well that a universal truth in an evolving biological system is very difficult to find that’s why you wrote this thang to bring people together.
@The Champ,
& save the ‘voluntary’ imigrants… Yes.
I am because we are. Invite a 2520 to your Kwanzaa celebration.
@sWEEP tHE lEG,
this brings up another question: how many of us actually celebrate kwanzaa? this is another poll i’d commission if i had enough money to commission national polls
@The Champ,
I’ve never known anyone that celebrated Kwanzaa
@Deviant,
Me Either.
This 2520 lady at my job was asking me if I celebrated it last year. I was like…um no, I celebrate Christmas…lol
@miss t-lee,
I celebrate Festivus. I shall best you in the Feats of Strength
I’m gonna air some grievances.
@The Champ,
Certainly not many. I go to one or two Kwanzaa celebrations a year and there are not that many of us there. I have had some of the funniest experiences of my life at Kwanzaa celebrations though.
@The Champ,
I participate in a few Kwanzaa celebrations every year… but at home it’s pretty much christmas. Although for the past couple years my sister and i have vowed to really observe it…
Champers – really? Never experienced the blatant racism? Let me tell you a little story….
I was at the beach with a few friends, and 2 of us decided to go into a small sandwich place that was attached to the hotel where we stayed. My buddy is mixed black and white, and I am a chocolaty brown chile. There is no one else inside, so we go in and ponder our selection (with cash visible in our hands) while the one (older, white) woman working there continues stocking the shelves. Soon enough we know what we want, but old girl is not trying to pause from what she is doing to help us. We didn’t even think too much of that – but I was starting to get a sick feeling in the pit of my stomache and didn’t know why.
Then a white man and his 2 kids came in. This broad jumps down off her little stool, rushes over to the cash register and asks brightly, “How can I help you?” She looked at us 2 times: the first time was when we came in, and she dismissed us out of hand. The second time was when she was waiting on “Chad” and fam, the look was like, “You still here?” Once it fully dawned on us that this woman was flat out not going to serve us and why, we just looked at each other with sick looks and left. When we complained to the hotel (once again, that we were staying at) they reprimanded the woman but also let us know that she was “older and just set in her ways.” WTF?
And this was just on a sammich. All you have to do is sit around with your elders of just one generation ago or your cousins from the south or your cousin in jail whose rommate is in the Aryan Brotherhood to hear about some wildly racist bullsh*t.
So my point is this: we DO have a shared experience as Black Folk (that’s diaspora for the bougees) and it’s this: if you come round HERE (America) you neeeevaaaah know when and where you may be hit with some ole racist ish. You can be ever so cosmopolitan, you can travel the world, you can be light or dark – but if you are Black Folk in THIS country you can and will be lumped into one box with the rest of us Black Folk. Someone will see you and all your “talented 10th” buddies and still clutch their purse or wonder which Popeyes you’re headed to.
That’s why mofos was looking astounded for the first 1/2 of Barack’s race against Hillary – they couldn’t even get over the fact that the bamma can complete a sentence. Has there been progress? Of course. Will we continue to have progress? Sure. But that’s in the future. We’re in the now. And as Halle so eloquently said, “I’S NEEGGRAAAHH!!”
@Lil’T,
“You can be ever so cosmopolitan, you can travel the world, you can be light or dark – but if you are Black Folk in THIS country you can and will be lumped into one box with the rest of us Black Folk. Someone will see you and all your “talented 10th” buddies and still clutch their purse or wonder which Popeyes you’re headed to. ”
And this, to me, is the universal black experience in a nutshell. People may make different assumptions about you based on the fact that you’re black. Some assumptions may be more extreme than others but you’ll still be lumped in as black.
@Dom,
So again I’m asking: Are we defining what it mean to be “black” by the actions/beliefs of others?
Are we saying that being “black” means that at some point we may be subject to other people’s assumptions about “black” people?
@Deviant,
On a base level, yes. I dont think anyone can deny that a major part of the black experience is the perceptions we recieve from the outside world. We will all come from different backgrounds and have different skin tones/class affiliations/political views, but the outside world will lump us all together and make one broad generalization.
Now dont get me wrong, I dont like that it happens, but when I go to another state and see another black face I generally assume that they’ve probablt felt the same thing blatantly or not. Thats one of the main reasons why I feel I can identify with them even when I dont know their name.
@Lil’T ” if you come round HERE (America) you neeeevaaaah know when and where you may be hit with some ole racist ish. You ”
This right here is some truth. I think because many people live in cities where there is a lot of co-mingling and sh*t that they forget, there are still some racist mofos here in America. Someone mentioned Kentucky upthread, there are parts of KY that I will NOT stop to get gas, or take a bathroom break. You couldn’t pay me. Yeah America is progressing, but please don’t be fooled into thinking everywhere is kosher for us to go.
@Lil’T,
Champers – really? Never experienced the blatant racism? Let me tell you a little story…
can’t say that i have. not saying that it can’t happen…just that it hasn’t
@The Champ,
Lucky you!
Lemme see. I’ve been Black most of my life. I’ve been around Black people most of my life. Hell, some of my best friends are Black. Therefore, I am qualified to answer this question. HEe-hee.
The Black experience, the idea of a shared experience? I can only think of it in terms of how some people react to us. For example, parade every Black person past a klan rally and we’ll likely all experience the same thing. But parade a selection of Blacks in front of a jury and we won’t all be judged the same. Cus you know, some of us are less threatening than others.
Then there’s how we react to each other. There’s no universally accepted way we interact. There’s an expectation, but that is even different as you move along socioeconomic status.
So then the answer, according to Hostess, is:
No. There is no standard Black experience.
@Hostess,
Who’s jury? In what universe? In Umerikah, stats say we most of the time bad. All I’m saying is we live in a country where hundreds of life sentences and death row cases were overturned by DNA evidence. This country that incarcerates more of its population than any other country on earth. And a great majority of the incarcerated have lots of melanin relatively speaking.
@WuDaMan, Maybe I wasn’t clear. The jury is likely to screw us all. It’s he degree of getting screwed that might vary. Dare I say though, a short beige Black man will typically get a lighter sentence than a big, tall, dark Black man. Sooo, the experience might suck but it’s not exactly the same across the board.
@Hostess,
Or maybe my comprehension doesn’t get it sometimes. But I heard that. :/
@Hostess,
I wouldn’t necessarily say that. Ole girl on the jury might be licking her lips at the tall, dark black dude and have a “fluck ‘em” attitude about the short light skinned dude. Tall n Black may be smiling like Morris Chestnut, and the little light skinned dude may look like that bamma from Onyx who ended up co-starring on Moesha.
@Lil’T, Watch a few episodes of First 48 or any other show that’s a real life look into the crime world. Dark, Black, tall gets convicted harder. Go over to offendersearch.com and look up random ppl. Odds are the ones with the longest sentences (Blacks) will be dark and bigger. Why? Because America (Black included) see these men as more threatening. The more threatening you appear, the more likely you are to get screwed HARDER than if you look physically non-threatening.
The black experience to me is to have to play the game at work, school, etc in order to appear non-threatening and jovial.
I find myself doing it, whether it’s switching my voice on the phone to welcoming folks into my office space when I really dont’ feel like chatting.
@Nicki Sunshine, But does everyone do that? I don’t think ANY of the admins I’ve worked around ever play any game. Nor do the Black people who don’t work in corporate America. So, IMO, while many of us choose to play the game at work, playing the game isn’t an all-encompassing Black experience.
@Hostess, Really? The postal workers and construction workers wouldn’t be playing the game????
I’m clueless.
@Nicki Sunshine,
i’ve worked in education (high school and secondary) my whole career, and i never had to play games or cowtow. maybe because i’m not, and have never been, low (or high) enough on the food chain to have to.
@The Champ, You are right… I don’t know if it’s low or high…..
Don’t get me wrong… I’m not over here playing stepinfetchet for a raise or anything…
I just sometimes don’t want to bothered with these folks… I want to close my door and be antisocial. I don’t want to go to the barbeque at the lawyers house..
And maybe it is bc I’m the only black chick. I just don’t want to be bother with the 2520s sometimes.
Whew, I just went off into a tangent. LOL
@Nicki Sunshine,
Whew, I just went off into a tangent. LOL
do you need a hug and sh*t?
@Nicki Sunshine,
You know you are doing yourself a disservice when you do that. Plus it gives the impression that you’re always happy to see them.
I’m not saying don’t be sociable but you should never feign your emotions. If you mad, let ‘em know you mad, son!
@Deviant,
sort of like faking an O.
@WuDaMan, Oh shoot guys, I’m guity of faking the O too..
I’m always trying not to hurt peoples feelings. LOL
@Nicki Sunshine,
Don’t do that.
Don’t save that kat’s feelings.
Let him know he ain’t up to par.
@miss t-lee, Stank you ma’am.. I WILL put that into practice. As Soon As…. I get off this celibacy stint. LOL.
@Nicki Sunshine,
Okay…make sure you report back…lol
@Nicki Sunshine, you need to learn to give people the “time out.” This way you can group your no nicely. & in the bedroom Aisha Tyler gives her hubby the time out. Yup strait up tells him “go stand in the corner naked and think about what you are not doing” lol @ least she said that in her stand up.
@WuDaMan, I’m dead. LOL. But I am gonna do that.
Because lying does nothing but leaves me pissed…
No guy has gave me the big O without oral anyway.
Challenge NINJAS. LOL
@Nicki Sunshine, Ohh that was T.M.I.
@Nicki Sunshine,
No guy has gave me the big O without oral anyway.
Challenge NINJAS. LOL
***deciding whether or not to hold the ebay auction for nicki’s email and ip address for 4 or 5 o’clock***
@Nicki Sunshine, lol
@Nicki Sunshine,
And then again, some black people DON’T have to switch their voices because that’s how they naturally and normally talk.
People are so scattered and concerned with the happenings of their own lives that I don’t really think there is an all unifying Black experience. Maybe someone said this above, but the closest we got to that was the day after Barack Obama won the election. Every black person I saw had a smile and people were speaking to other people they didn’t even know. I’d never seen Black people so optimistic and friendly across the board to each other as I did that day. And that’s a day that will never be repeated. Now it’s back to business as usual. If the last 100 years were to be a graph, we’d see a spike on November 5th and then a drop off back to the same-o.
@Slim Jackson,
“Every black person I saw had a smile and people were speaking to other people they didn’t even know.”
Bit you have to ask yourself why this happened? Why were so many black people happy that Barak won? I think its because we all know how much BS he had to go through to get that win. And a little piece of each of us could identify with the struggle he went through to overcome it. Simple as it seems, THAT prooves that there is a universal black experience.
@Dom, Excellent point. I stand slightly corrected.lol.
@Dom,
“Why were so many black people happy that Barak won? I think its because we all know how much BS he had to go through to get that win. And a little piece of each of us could identify with the struggle he went through to overcome it.”
But ALL black people weren’t happy that Obama won the election.. Does that make them less black? Are they traitors to the universal black experience because they didn’t jump on the bandwagon with the rest of us?
@Deviant,
I dont think so. Some people choose not to identify as black and shun the black experience, but to me that doesnt make them any less black. Just makes them misguided.
@Dom,
“Some people choose not to identify as black”
Is this even possible? I know that there are some people who can literally pass for white but this suggests that A “black” identity exists.
How does it make them misguided because they didn’t believe in Barack Obama? That seems to suggest that all black people should have voted for him simply because he’s black. And that, I can’t get down with.
I mean, I don’t understand it myself but who am I to judge?
@Deviant,
No, no, you’ve got it twisted. I dont mean denying Barak Obama makes black people misguided. Thats a seperate “special” issue, for special people (cuz c’mon, McCain? Really?). Actually only 97% of black voters went with Barak, so thats clearly not entirely universal.
But black people who deny that they are black, or look black and choose to deny their blackness (Tiger Woo), or are black and choose to deny that blacks still struggle, are misguided.
@Dom,
“But black people who deny that they are black, or look black and choose to deny their blackness (Tiger Woo), or are black and choose to deny that blacks still struggle, are misguided.”
When you say “deny their blackness” are you speaking in a “Bluest Eye” kind of way or a “I’m not black I’m human” kind of way?
I don’t think Tiger Woods denied his blackness as much as he tried not to look at his race as an issue. He caught a lot of flack for saying he was multiracial (which he is) and not Black.
What’s wrong with that?
@Dom,
Tiger Woods is not black – he’s caublinasian!
@Deviant,
“When you say “deny their blackness” are you speaking in a “Bluest Eye” kind of way or a “I’m not black I’m human” kind of way?”
See to me, I dont give a dam* what grounds you try to deny it on, your denying it just the same and thats some BS. The problem is Tiger Woods and anyone who looks black (because they ARE BLACK) denying what they see in the mirror tells me a few things:
1. This person is socially asstute enough to see that those who look like him/her are generally cast as in a certain light.
2. This person is striving to assimilate with the dominant group in order to cast off the “affliction” of their race.
3. The people who deny their blackness and identify with another race generally do so to make a point that they are somehow “better” than black people.
And honsetly I think this could go the same way for folks who are mixed with just about anything. Anne Curry of the Today show is a case and point. She’s white and Asian, looks like a straight up Asian woman but identifies as white. wtf?
In essence, saying it aint so dont make their skin any less brown! Stop denying it and make a pledge to change the negative views about brown skinned people by proudly claiming your race and striving to do better than the negative stereotype!
@Dom,
“looks black” is right up there with “looks gay” in my book.
all pigmented people do not identify with being “black”, they don’t all fit in that box and i think that’s what this post is getting at…
what being “black” means to me may not mean the same to you and vice versa. in my life experiences it may not have had as much of an impact as it had in yours. so to you i’m downplaying, something you uphold.
I’d be offended if i was trying to embrace all of my heritage and people kept trying to tell me who i was. in fact, that has happened and i am offended.
who are you* to tell me who i am?
* this is a collective you and not a specific you.
@Dom, To not identify as black, to “shun the black experience” in itself proves that there is a black experience
@Deviant, “But ALL black people weren’t happy that Obama won the election.. Does that make them less black?”
Yes..why yes it does…even Michael Steele (a hardcore black repub) and them were elated Obama won..so as a black person if you can’t be happy for another black person (outside of political affiliation) for doing something that has never been done…yeah something is indeed wrong wit yo black @zz point blank.
@Princess Duvet,
Lol! Well Dam*, guess you put it all on the table bluntly.
@Dom, i meant that in a happy duvet kind of way.
@Princess Duvet,
Soooo. I’m supposed to be happy for every person who is the first black ___ just because we share high counts of melanin?
I’m not going.
Because, when does that “we’re both black, i got your back” end?
@Deviant,
“Soooo. I’m supposed to be happy for every person who is the first black ___ just because we share high counts of melanin?”
so you feel no “kindred spiritness” to Barack-Michelle??
lets just answer our questions with a question throughout the rest of this thread lol..
i guess the long answer is…not if you don’t want to. But I’m curious as to how a person couldn’t feel a connection to him in a very and deeply black way. Someone mentioned down/up thread about black people gravitating to other blacks in the work place most times regardless of position. I’ve had some of my best conversations after hours with the service staff.
i dunno…maybe that is apart of the experience. Perhaps there is something collective. Would I be here if this site was called very smart white dudes??
more questions for your questions lol
@Princess Duvet,
In regards to this –>But I’m curious as to how a person couldn’t feel a connection to him in a very and deeply black way. <– I have heard more than one black American who did not feel any “connection” to him because and I repeat verbatim, “he is the product of a white mother and an immigrant African father, he has no ties or history to the slavery struggle” so he basically can’t relate to the “Black Experience”…
That’s why I find the whole concept of A black experience a bit complex. It can easily be taken out of bounds and become dangerously exclusive instead of serving its intended purpose of awesome inclusion.
@Princess Duvet,
“I’m curious as to how a person couldn’t feel a connection to him in a very and deeply black way.”
See, I don’t think the connection is about being black.
W.I.A. suggests the experience is about being black and growing up in a black family in a black community… but Obama didn’t have that so how am I supposed to connect with him?
I admire his apparent sincerity for the welfare of America and its citizens. But I like to believe, I’d admire him if he was our first Native American/Asian/Pacific Islander/Central American/American African/Female/Homosexual presidential candidate as well.
@ Dev
“but Obama didn’t have that so how am I supposed to connect with him?”
i guess my definition of black is broad and varied even given my own background, which may in fact beg another post. Again its curious that blacks all over the diaspora manage to get here and chat it up on VSB…because of something that ties us all together…but yet and still Obama doesn’t share that little piece of string. To some not even by association (Michelle)…
is there something disingenious about the internet? what connects Black Caribbeans, Africans, Americans here…that can’t be extended to our President.
@Princess Duvet,
“my definition of black is broad and varied even given my own background”
That’s my point. If we all have a different defintion of blackness, how can we claim to have a shared experience within said blackness?
“Again its curious that blacks all over the diaspora manage to get here and chat it up on VSB…because of something that ties us all together…”
I this is more 6 degrees of separation than anything else. I mean I wasn’t googling for intelligent black men. I saw that someone on Facebook became a fan of the site and I started reading. That’s more who you know and I just happen to know other melanin coated people.
@ Dev
“That’s my point. If we all have a different defintion of blackness, how can we claim to have a shared experience within said blackness?”
But in its definition there are commonalities…like with this posts title..oye como va kept going through my head..within the afro latin jazz thing ..i hear alot of different sounds that connect.
ok its cofffee time cause i just went real left..but i guess what im tryna say is that globally with black folk there is like that one common beat.
or maybe im doing what alot of black american’s do..idealize black diaspora in a “we are the world” kind of way..but i dunno.
@Princess Duvet,
“or maybe im doing what alot of black american’s do..idealize black diaspora in a “we are the world” kind of way..”
I think so but there’s nothing wrong with wanting to be connected to your fellow man. It’s natural.
I wish everybody was more like me.
@Deviant,
when “we’re both white, so you’re alright” ends.
@Deviant,
Because, when does that “we’re both black, i got your back” end?
This is an interesting question. Why does it have to end?
@pgh muse,
Why does it need to start?
I’m not against helping my fellow pigmented Americans in the least but why should I be expected to show favor to someone because we’re both black?
@ Deviant,
I don’t think it should be an expectation. But if that person is qualified you should show them favor as a person in a position to do it bcuz as a black man you know that there is the chance that they had to work harder, and overcome more obstacles to get to where they are at. And that should be rewarded. Not saying that another person of different racial background didn’t have a story too, but when you have to make a decision and you have to able candidates before you… and you have to make a choice, you should pull up one of your own. Why not. Other races, cultures and nationalities have been doing it for years. That why there are ethnic enclaves – we are prolly the only race of people in america who question this.
@ Dev
“Why does it need to start?
I’m not against helping my fellow pigmented Americans in the least but why should I be expected to show favor to someone because we’re both black
”
i do this in alot of my life. If they are excellent and black I show favor… that extends to doctors, attys, plumbers etc..its in what i read, even where i vacation. I’d rather be on the ink well side of MV than up on the other side of chappy.
again it goes back to maybe the perception of the collective.
@pgh muse,
“I don’t think it should be an expectation.”
It shouldn’t be but it is. This is where I, personally, have an issue. I’m all for the greater good but give my the opportunity to offer before assuming. And I think a lot of times, the expectation comes from the “black experience” that we’re supposed to be sharing.
“you should pull up one of your own” – What if one of my own is some kid who grew up in my poor NJ neighborhood who happens to be Irish and went to my old high school as opposed to someone I can only relate to because our skin is closer in color?
I’m just saying race can’t be the only qualifier in these situations and it shouldn’t be. No matter what other say or how they perceive us, our race has very little to do with who we are. Because it’s not the same for everyone.
@ Deviant,
I’m not saying that “pulling up one of your own” is a blanket formula for always showing a black person favor, but I think that we as some of the most fortunate members of the African diaspora we should feel some form of responsibitly and connectedness to our communities, ancestors, and history to honor it by giving back in some way. Whether that’s by supporting black businesses, or hiring black kids that you know deserve the chance, or whatever, if the only connection you feel to other black people is solely in the color of your skin then I think you need to read some books or talk to some of the elders in your family. I’m not judging you at all, but I don’t see how you can NOT feel affected.
@pgh muse,
” the only connection you feel to other black people is solely in the color of your skin then I think you need to read some books or talk to some of the elders in your family. I’m not judging you at all, but I don’t see how you can NOT feel affected.”
the minute you said “you need” you were judging. but in doing so you proved my point.
why should i feel connected to someone i don’t know and have just met when the only thing i know we have had in common is the color of our skin. why am i expected to make it any deeper than that? i can see if i get to know someone, but making assumptions that they’ve endured some common hardship because we’re both black is just that an assumption and i’m not one to make an equine of myself.
@ Deviant,
Ok… i take the you need to back you are right. But let’s look at it like this. When you first meet someone – you’ll feel a connection to them immediately as a human being. That’s just naturally what happens when a person meets another person… then take it a step further and that person you are just meeting is a person of African descent… Now of course you don’t know that person from adam, but if that person is a person of African descent there are a few additional things that bind you. You shouldn’t just walk around making assumptions about anyone – but we are all connected on certain levels and some more than others. Some by language, some by nationality, some by City (what up Champers), some by location, some by race. It’s just nature, history, and the Universe. Why fight it?
@pgh muse,
i’m not suggesting we should fight our natural intuition, i’m just saying that our intuition shouldn’t be gilded with race.
@Dom,
Why were so many black people happy that Barak won? I think its because we all know how much BS he had to go through to get that win.
you know what though…my happiness had nothing to do with his struggle. at that point, i really didnt give a f*ck about the means, as long as he ended up on top at the end.
i guess what i’m getting at is that i don’t think as many of us are as connected to “the struggle” as we’ve been in the past, mainly because alot of us, quite frankly, havent had to struggle at all. we cant define the black experience with something a great number of us don’t experience
@The Champ,
Like I said up top, just because I may not have experienced it firsthand does not mean that I’m going to deny that it exists. Or that there are still predominant experiences for many of the folks who look like us.
And in terms of a great number or us not experiencing these things, I think its more relative to the audience. Like you said, this site has a dominance of college educated, similarly classed or educated folks commenting so of course many of our experiences will fall along the same lines.
I tend to doubt that if this was a discussion in any predominantly black community in America with your average Joe that things would sound the same.
Okay I gots this lil idea been rolling around in my head. 1. Black people are the original people. 2520s are people that evolved. So they are like the children of the species. Children run amok.
@WuDaMan,
I can sort of agree with this. Western European culture is so uncivilized. Its funny b/c they told us Africans and Native Americans we were backwards but it was them that was backwards.
@Humble_One, it depends on what type of system you place value on. If you value civilization, mass productions, industrialization, then we the ‘others’ are the losers. If you value ancient ways of living that are sustainable and efficient, then they are behind. All perspective.
@postmodern pwnage,
Uhm no it was the Moores that taught them and the Greeks and Romans that learned from North Africans. Modern civilization? Came from Africa b 4 it got raped of all its natural resources n people.
@WuDaMan, I am talking about civilization in its modern form. Post-Industrialization to be exact. As for the greeks stealing from the moors, I hope you dont mean the ancient greeks, because I think they predated the moors. Anyway, I am not arguing that we are less civilized, but if you value the ‘enlightment ideals’ the proliferation of science, reason, industrialization, etc, then we are backwards in comparison to the west.
@postmodern pwnage,
I said that The Greeks gleaned from the north Africans (Egyptians), and the Moores taught Europe to not be a barbaric society. But my point was the geniology. Whereas people with more melanin =>parents, came first and the people with less melanin were their decendants => children.
I think that there is a standard black experience however there are more and more outliers that may not take part in that experience. I think if we were looking for an average of all of the experiences, it would be much different than our idea of the universal experience but a median would be almost on point. If there is no almost universal experience then why is it that so many people gravitate towards the other black co-worker or the black stockboy at your lilly white Whole Foods gets a head nod. There is no way that I immediately know upon first look that we have common experiences with said co-worker or stock boy. Thus, we actively assume that we have common experiences.
As racism becomes more and more veiled and camouflaged, there will be more people of African descent who feel that there is no common experience. This is because for so long our experiences were shaped by everyday racism and the more corrosive insitutionalized racism. Now the other aspects that make up our shared experience will become more prevalent. Aspects like how our black women are pressured to be both skinny and thick, the whole light skin complex, a certain awareness of one’s race or our hair and skin products to name a few.
@I’m from the “Peyso”nic Temple,
“there is a standard black experience”
What does this look like?
I’ll admit that our individual experiences as black people may over lap but I don’t think there’s a “standard.” If my experience is different from yours, does that mean that I’m not as black, or possibly, more black than you?
@Deviant, I think there is a standard in the sense that there is generally a set, finite amount of occurences that can occur that will shape your unique experience. And that particular set of occurences is unique to people of African descent, not the occurences as individual events. So putting that in a more digestible way, all black ppl have the same crayons but we may choose to use whatever color we like to draw our own unique pictures.
@I’m from the “Peyso”nic Temple,
“all black ppl have the same crayons but we may choose to use whatever color we like to draw our own unique pictures”
I think we are just EXPECTED to have the same crayons. But that’s not always the case. I mean I might have Crayolas and you have Roses. I might have a 24 pack and you might have a 48 pack.
The black in my box may not look like the black in your box.
@Deviant, No we dont all have the same crayons. As I learned in kindergarden, no two crayons are the same. But your black is gonna pretty similar to mine but your black crayon is gonna shape your picture a little differently than mine will shape mine. But most of our crayons are coming from the regular 48 pack and not the pack with over 160 crayons.
“If there is no almost universal experience then why is it that so many people gravitate towards the other black co-worker or the black stockboy at your lilly white Whole Foods gets a head nod. There is no way that I immediately know upon first look that we have common experiences with said co-worker or stock boy. Thus, we actively assume that we have common experiences.”
Good point.
Universal? No. There’s only a handful of things universal, really, and they all have to do with either death, Souljah Boy & Jim Jones, or the fact that Kelly was actually the finest member of Destiny’s Child (I didn’t get in yesterday’s post, had to state it here.)
But like with any culture, there are a bunch of extremely common experiences, tendencies, and general outlooks that the vast majority of Black people share (I assume we’re talking strictly about African Americans, not all diasporans who are located here).
I’ll say this – there is a Black experience, but not all Black people are equally cloaked in it. Then teh question is, “are some Black people Blacker than others?” Probably, yes. That’s a very un-PC idea, but I think that’s how cultures work.
@Scipio Africanus,
I’ll say this – there is a Black experience, but not all Black people are equally cloaked in it
interesting point
Totally unrelated .. . the Governor of Illinois got arrested for choosing Obama’s replacement. Interesting to see how this is going to flesh out in the media.
@IVR,
Just read about that. He’s done. The feds don’t move until they have built a case against you. They got him. He was trying to put Obama’s Senate seat up for sale in exchange for salary positions for him & his wife, campaign contributions, etc. And he even snuffed out the newspapers who tried to criticize him.
@SouthernCharm,
It’s not looking good for ol’ boy.
As blacks, our experiences may be different, but we share a common history. Go back to that moment, watching live, when you found out Obama won the presidency. How did you feel at that moment? How did people around you feel? How did you react? How did you feel a day after? Two days after?
Whether you supported him or not, I think every black person felt that moment. Different backgrounds. Different experiences. It’s not logic. It’s much more tangible.
I don’t think it’s the experience of black folks. It’s the soul of black folks (shout out to DuBois).
@SouthernCharm, that is so true! There were so many black republicans who voted for him. He got like 90% of the black vote in the whole United States. I am guessing the other 10% was made up of folks in senior citizens homes, women in labor, and crackheads who hadn’t come to, yet! We love Obama.
@SouthernCharm,
I don’t think it’s the experience of black folks. It’s the soul of black folks (shout out to DuBois).
I agree with this wholeheartedly.
How far the Russians have come. Now, a bride from their shores is practically a delicacy.
@kamakula, LOL
@kamakula,
*chuckles, cackles then snorts*
@kamakula,
LMAO @ you. I just may consider taking you back just for this funny. You miss me yet?
@Luvvie,
You sabi I do. I kept searching the comments yesterday to see if you’d said something so I could at least pretend that on a small level you were talking directly to me. Alas, my hope went unfounded.
@kamakula,
LOL! LOL!LOL!
There definitely is a black experience.
The black experience liberates.
The black experience suffocates.
When folks talk about the black (american) experience, they’re thinking about being black, growing up with a black family in a black community.
- the immediate and extended family
- the births, christenings, services, marriages, divorces, funerals
- the schools
- the food
- the language
- the hood
- the country
- the outlook and perspective on life
Most of this is quite obvious if your Caribbean or African or in anyway not the typical product of 2 black folks whose great, great, great grandparents were also born in the States.
@WestIndianArchie,
I totally agree with this. Talking to people who are first generation American is sometimes fun and sometimes frustrating, just because they view race in a completely different way than I do as a full African American. In my youth it used to lead to arguments but now I appreciate hearing other views. Interesting to see how people are always thinking about it though, even when they dont think its a big deal.
@WestIndianArchie,
*Sigh* If I wasn’t considering giving kamakula a 2nd chance…
Our one commonality is, that deep down inside, we are waiting for that one poor unsuspecting white soul who doesn’t know any better, to test us so we can pull the race card. That I wish a cracka would syndrome, if you will! Although in DC we tend to have them trained to think before they speak, because we’ve outnumbered all others for years. We still yearn for that moment of innocent racism so we can go off like James Evans! Example Below.
Lilibeth: Hey Shay-Shay, I am having a pot luck housewarming, this weekend, would you like to contribute some kind of chicken?
Shay Shay: Chicken……chicken! You racist b*tch, you better get the “F” outta my face before I wear that wig off your head! “TRASHY HOOKAH!” Put me down string beans.
@Mme. Editor-in-Chief,
“That I wish a cracka would syndrome, if you will! Although in DC we tend to have them trained to think before they speak, because we’ve outnumbered all others for years. We still yearn for that moment of innocent racism so we can go off like James Evans”
LOL! I love this post, and agree 100%. I live in a relatively homogenous city in Canada that lacks a huge population of black folks. However, we all share in common the anticipation of a racist incident, and thinking collectively , “This bastard would never try this in harlem or DC.” lol The hope that there are other ‘blacks’ who would set their behinds straight is a powerful uniting factor
@postmodern pwnage,
Especially as Canadians for the most part (French Canadians especially) are so very naive while being extremely PC.
It makes for some very funny stories.
@Mme. Editor-in-Chief,
why are you so stooopid?!?!?!? got me over here doing the wheeze so that people won’t know I’m laughin…..if someone comes over here with a nebulizer I’m through.
You right, tho. I think it was Cedric who said that White people hope, but Black people wish:
Lillibeth – I hope no one takes our seats at the concert.
Shaquita – I wish a n*gga would take our seats at the concert!
@Lil’T,
lol…yeah, it was him.
As always…i’m late as hell…..and grateful for this blog, ya’ll make my day for real.
As for the Universal Black Experience……..
I told my wife one day…on the drive home….. where the hell can I go? I’m black….. Ain’t African ( plenty of African friends and family ) …..I’m American…..there ain’t no go anywhere the world and blend in. The only choice is to stay and fight on…cause the Cause ain’t finiished
My kids are got family around the world….The European side is easy as hell to check out…cause they came voluntarily. The Black side…ain’t so easy. We’ve only been able to trace family back to Jamaica…..
I don’t dwell on it too much….cause…I’d really hurt somebody if I did
@KingPine,
welcome and sh*t (i think)
@The Champ,
thanks man…lol
@KingPine,
yeah, I thought you were de-lurking, but i wasn’t sure
welcome
**Diva Dust ™**
yes, errbody gets the sparkly dust… even men.
@blackberry molasses,
Brother had to come out the woods at some point right?
Can’t wait to see balt/dc later this month….
thanks for the dust….i think
@KingPine,
Welcome and sh*t.
PS – Blackberry Mo just hit you in the face wit glitter.
@Lil’T,
“Blackberry Mo just hit you in the face wit glitter.”
nah uh!!!
That’s PBG’s modus operandum!
Diva Dust ™ is a fine sparkly powdery sweet smelling gossamer-like dust that billows ever so gently around you.
I worked on perfecting that formula! Hence the trademark.
@blackberry molasses,
BBMo, you know I’m an instigator. Let me work!
@KingPine,
welcome and sh!t *throws gold stars into bbmo’s diva dust ™ *
@blackberry molasses, lil t,
*sigh* i leave ya’ll unattended for 2 seconds cause i have work to do and we got a glitter/diva dust ™ situation. smh
Oh! I saw a black squirrel today! but it was raining and he ran and hid under a car before i could take a picture…
@SouthernGirl,
“i leave ya’ll unattended for 2 seconds cause i have work to do and we got a glitter/diva dust ™ situation. smh”
**points at Lil’T** She started it.
oh, and methinks y’all need mo people on the black squirrels thing. i’m jus sayin… people have been talking about them for HOW LONG and NOT ONE shred of pictoral evidence….
“oh, and methinks y’all need mo people on the black squirrels thing. i’m jus sayin… people have been talking about them for HOW LONG and NOT ONE shred of pictoral evidence….”
I completely and totally co-sign.
@bbmo, miss t,
i swear fo’ kang jesus and put that on errrthang i love!!!! if i hadn’t a seent it myself i too would doubt.
i never saw one at home though. only since i got up to chi. are the black squirrels a northern thing?
*EDIT*
http://www.nytimes.com/2008/02/24/nyregion/nyregionspecial2/24squirrelsli.html
See???????
@Lil’T,
I was steppin light all through town!
Thanks for the welcome too
Very th0ught provoking post Champ. Buen Trabajo (i minored in Spanish… wish mine were better).
I think that as peoples of African descent the world over we have ties that bind us. We have shared histories (and strong genetically dominant physical characteristics) that mark us as members of the diaspora. Whether we are American, African, Brazilian, Carribean, Canadian, European, or whatever there are circumstances and behaviors that are particular to people of African descent that are not shared by others in the world – just like peoples of other cultures share certain histories. But with all that said I don’t think that racial identity defines a person. It is just a tiny aspect of that person’s lifestyle, personality, and make up… but it is a tie that binds… which is why we all find ourselves here on this site, or at the same clubs, or jubilant the world over at the victory of Barack Obama for president of the United States. Although we come from different classes and different nationalities none of us can shed our Africaness… light or dark. It rears it’s head somewhere – whether it’s in how someone else perceives you or in the music you move your hips to… it’s there… so I think that there actually IS a black experience. I think it’s wide and broad and too long and deep to try to box and label… but it starts in the Motherland and branches out from there.
@pgh muse,
“I think it’s wide and broad and too long and deep to try to box and label…”
I agree. My girlfriends and I all have a different upbringing but they could all be considered part of black experience. My Haitian friend’s experiences differ from those my African-American friends, and so on. These experiences do share similarities. It is too broad and we as a people are way too diverse to figure out what the black experience really is.
@pgh muse, I feel like you’re the mother who let all the children speak their foolishness all day and then you spoke and shed the light on all of it
@I’m from the “Peyso”nic Temple,
Thanks Peyso **blushing**… as long as I’m the milf letting all the children speak their foolishness then I’m definitely feeling this
@pgh muse,
Very th0ught provoking post Champ. Buen Trabajo (i minored in Spanish… wish mine were better).
thanks and sh*t. as 8th wonder knows, i can get pretty deep and sh*t
@The Champ,
aw dayum.
@The Champ,
lol… i don’t know if i need to think about that image for too long or not…
bout as deep as a kiddie pool.
@8th Wonder,
hawt d@mn, e-twinny!
BWAHAHAHAHAHAHA!
To determine whether or not there is a shared black experience, we must first determine what they inherant shared qualities are.
I grew up in a household with two black parents in the hood and went to private school and took ice skating lessons and ballet as a child. Needless to say I was the only raisin in that bowl of milk, (more like an almond by I digress).
I know my experience is not the “black” experience. So what exactly are the bullet points of the black experience?
@Jeandra,
“I know my experience is not the “black” experience.”
So do you feel there was some mythical blackness you missed out on?
@Deviant,
not at all. I’m black, that in itself is blackness. I’m addressing the topic.
What is the black experience. to answer it, you have identify or agree upon on exactly WHAT that experience is.
@Deviant,
I can see your point here. I grew up in a majority black, middle class area (PG up, DC down – that’s for you PBG!) area and was often called out for not being “black enough”. This caused me to dismiss the very idea of blackness from an early age. Seriously, do you have to eat chicken, speak poorly and shun school to be Black? So if I am smart and middle class I’m not “black” enough? Even then I knew that I didn’t want to define my blackness on some ole stupid sh*t like that. Fortunately my folks weren’t on it either – they had to fight to get into college (first generation) and they passed the old school values my way. Education = success.
@Lil’T,
what exactly is his point? i asked what is the black experience he said, did i miss out on mythical blackness. so his point is what?
@Jeandra,
I’m agreeing with you that there isn’t “A black experience” that’s why I called it “mythical”.
You said it yourself. “[You] are black and that in itself is blackness.” You said that your experience as a black person wasn’t the “black” experience, yet you don’t feel you missed out on anything.
@Deviant,
my experience was not what previous posters deemed the “black experience”
@Jeandra,
Proving that there isn’t one, single standard black experience because all black people can’t give the same answer on what it means to be black.
We’re saying the same thing. You’re just making agreeing with you harder than it has to be.
@Jeandra,
You and D are actually arguing the same point – that if there is such a thing as a “black experience” it is defined as WHATEVER black people may do. Some folks (ignant folks) use the idea of a “Black Experience” as a way to validate their own triflingness and hate on successful Black Folk – you know the ones…”What you readin’ fo? Work on yo jump shot! Must be an oreo…” type bammas. The ones who will try to make you feel “less black”. But my feeling is that if you are black then whatever your experience is gets added to the “Black Experience” as a whole. People can deny it, but it’s in there.
@Deviant,
got you.
@Jeandra, The black experience is less of the stereotypical ideas that we hold about black families, black masculinity, black femininity, etc. but more of the common plight of ppl of African Descent in America. Having to fight some of the same fights and struggles. I’m almost sure that you were one of the few blk folk who ice skated, thats part of the experience right there. Being an “other” is the experience for the most part.
@I’m from the “Peyso”nic Temple,
I dont think that’s part of the black experience. I wasn’t chosin by a group of people to be a black delegate, my mother chose to let me take lessons.
Sorry for the double post!
@ The Champ, This was a great entry. I think the only “black experience” that’s left is a shared respect and admiration of our ancestors and what they had to endure for us to be at this point, coupled with the recognition that we still have a long way to go.
Even still, some people don’t know a thing about any of that, so my vision isn’t all-encompassing either…
Although I’d say there are a lot of things that MOST black people in America have experienced, in this day and age the race is too diverse to really say that a true “black experience” exists.
@ListenToLeon,
Very true comment. And there are whites or other races that may share this same perspective, that is there experience to share.
I think some one above mentioned perspective and that too plays an important role in defining the “experience” .
@BuppieLuvinVSB,
welcome and sh*t
@BuppieLuvinVSB,
welcome to the abyss…*gold stars*
@SouthernGirl,
welcome to the abyss indeed
**Diva Dust ™**
watch your productivity sink slowly into the abyss…
@ListenToLeon,
thanks and sh*t
and…
“in this day and age the race is too diverse to really say that a true “black experience” exists”
…to repeat the question i asked upthread, do you think this is a good or bad thing?
@The Champ,
Aight up thread as WuDa was trying to state. This is a bad thing. Back in the days when cities were forming in Uhmerikah. That is how hoods came about. Immigrants moved to areas where 1. They were accepted 2. They spoke a common language, culture… this also produced a dynamic where there was haterade spewed (I think out of frustration because people grew a disdain for non similar cultures. Only because it wasn’t familiar.) But what if; we could have our differences and be celebrated by others of different cultural backgrounds, and we could celebrate other cultural backgrounds in return. Now this right here would be a great thing in a society’s historic repertoire.
If you don’t plan a reveloution to the end, you might as well plan your own grave. Because you won’t be able to recognize the world you set out to create in the beginning. And you won’t stop until you think it’s a job completed (creating a new nice world).
Are we discussing the black experience in the USA or Globally?
@Jeandra,
American.
“(yup. you read that correctly. i’m a 29 year old black man who can honestly say that he’s never had to face any typical of unambiguous racial discrimination. ***knocking on wood***)”
for the most part, me too. anytime i did face anything, the person it was coming from was socially retarded and cursed for life.
like in kindergarten, this girl named sarah fox would tease me everyday by calling me blackie. she would say that i was adopted because i was black and my mom was white. sarah now has 4 kids at the age of 23, is single and weighs a cool 260 lbs.
see, retarded and cursed for life.
@laylah,
see, retarded and cursed for life.
lol, this sarah chick must be related to my neighbor eli, who killed my goldfish when i was 6. he’s now a 400 plus pound fireman
what the hell is his plump ass saving from a fire?
@The Champ,
“he’s now a 400 plus pound fireman”
How is that even possible??
@laylah,
That is not the fireman I want to rescue me in an emergency.
Dayum.
@laylah,
“he’s now a 400 plus pound fireman”
How is that even possible??
i guess he sits on them
Not sure if this is relevant, but USA Today had an article today that touched on how Obama is considered Black despite his mixed heritage. They stated that the only reason (White) people are asking why he can’t be considered as white is because of his social status. If he didn’t have the social status that he does, there would be no question about it….. He would be Black.
@V Renee,
Damn straight. And THATS part of the Universal Black Experience!
@Dom,
yep
@Dom,
co-sign 110%
@V Renee,
its all relevant and sh*t. thanks for the heads up
I think that the interesting thing for black people is that our blackness is written all over our faces (hair, body, skin). Regardless of how you personally regard your blackness (or Africaness), you can’t circumvent it unless you are light enough to pass… but even then you may have to deal with that Afro gene that pops up in one of your decendants. So i think that it’s interesting that people act as if it’s a non-entity… like it doesn’t mean anything. But I think that for African Americans this is where being American slaves was especially detrimental, because we were torn from a our long heritage and deep history, so our story kinda starts in slavery. But there was so much evil in that existence to shed that the good things weren’t passed down (or were sabotaged and destroyed). People like to feel rooted and anchored to something…
I took a class on race in america last year, and on what it means to be of a certain race. after reading (a lot) of books and articles on this subject, and changing my views more often than would be expected in a ten week quarter, i realized that being “black” does have a more individual meaning, but it also is defined on a broader scale by others. for example, i consider myself black american, my nigerian roommates think of themselves as nigerian american, but my white friends might describe us all as black.period.
consider the idea that your membership in any racial group somewhat depends on the racial group that others believe that you fit into (the acceptance into a racial group that a mixed-race person might experience). Most often this would depend on certain distinguishing physical features. simultaneously, it depends on your own identification with a particular category, if you decide to define your race. Even more, it depends on your environment (Being black in America in no way means the same thing as being black in Senegal).
This being said, the only “Universal Black Experience” that we share is perception of us as black. Everything else varies with the individual…at least that’s what i came up with from my class
@missjess,
and you too! excellently put.
@missjess,
this was a good comment , missjess. all insightful and sh*t
The black experience–is there one? No. Your black experience is specific to YOU; like where you grew up, where you went to school, what your parents taught you about what being black is, your socioeconomic status, etc…
I’m almost certain that my black experience is different from most, considering that the lil white girls in my class (in high school) used to tell me, “You are the whitest black girl I know!” and my professor (in grad school) just looked right over me when he asked the other two black dudes in my class about how they felt about Barack Obama being the President and fools in the club like to say, “Dang, you thick to be a white girl.” WTF?!!! I guess I need to walk around with a sign that says, “I AM BLACK DAMNIT.”
“My” black experience is something that I almost have to fight for…how sick is that?
Although I’ve never been blatantly discrimnated against myself, I know what it feels like for someone who has…I think it’s ingrained in each of us to feel that pain automatically. That’s what binds us together…that’s the black experience for me.
**Ashy elbows/knees=REAFFIRMATION……for me at least**
sitting down now.
@This Just In,
Excellent response and exactly the point I was trying to make though not so eloquently. Being black in itself is the black experience.
@Jeandra,
Thanks! I agree…it is what it is.
@This Just In,
welcome and sh*t
@This Just In,
welcome and sh!t *throws gold stars at TJI and exits checking my gold star supply*
jeez….lots of welcomes today.
@SouthernGirl,
Thank ya!!!
*clinches gold stars as if someone was trying to take em away*
I wish a mutha would!
)
@This Just In, lmao!
@The Champ,
you never check your myspace.
@The Champ,
thanks and sh!t
@This Just In,
Welcome to the humble little blog known as VSB. Blackberry Mo will by shortly to blind you with glitter, er, Diva Dust. tee-hee.
@Lil’T,
**BBMo musters best mean mug her baby face can produce**
keep playin wit me Lil’T
@ This Just In
Welcome!!!
**Diva Dust ™** (man, all this dusting is giving me a mean workout!)
Sorry I was late… just got out of a meeting
@blackberry molasses,
I’m feelin all diva-ish and sh!t!
Thank ya!!!!
@blackberry molasses, **Diva Dust ™** (man, all this dusting is giving me a mean workout!)
i know, right?!? my arm is getting tired…running low on gold stars and sh!t….
@Lil’T,
Thank ya!!
*patiently waits and twiddles thumbs*
I don’t really have much to add to this one here, I agree with most of your opinions that the experience is more or less defined by perceptions of others; even in the military where it’s supposed to be all about rank (bs indeed).
I did want to say as this blogs only active military representative (I think), that your boy made it out of the desert safe and sound a couple days ago and I’ll be back in the states in a few weeks. If you ever prayed for your homies serving overseas, I thank you.
Now back to your scheduled programming.
@mdubb,
“I did want to say as this blogs only active military representative (I think), that your boy made it out of the desert safe and sound a couple days ago and I’ll be back in the states in a few weeks. If you ever prayed for your homies serving overseas, I thank you.”
Further evidence that prayer works and Jesus listens. Welcome home. I think I can speak for the collective when I say we are overjoyed that you are home safely.
**Diva Dust ™** <—- that’s just from BBMo tho.
@mdubb,
Glad you made it back safely.
@mdubb,
Glad to hear the prayers are makin it mdubb
@mdubb, preciate your service…have a safe return to the states.
@mdubb,
Welcome back, Mr. Kot-teeer!
For real though, glad you’re still in one peace.
@mdubb,
I did want to say as this blogs only active military representative (I think), that your boy made it out of the desert safe and sound a couple days ago and I’ll be back in the states in a few weeks. If you ever prayed for your homies serving overseas, I thank you.
this is great news.
@mdubb,
Glad to hear that you’re home safe, mdubb. Thanks for what you do.
@mdubb,
Glad you made it back! And you’ll continually be in my prayers hoping you dont ever have to go back!
Hope you’re here in time to enjoy the holidays with your fam!
@mdubb,
Glad you made it back. And I pray you don’t have to ever have to go back!
@mdubb,
yay!!! *gold stars* another safe return. glad you’re safe and sound. thanks for all that you do.
@mdubb
WELCOME HOME!!!! Cocktails and stiff ones are on the table to the right! Please don’t be shy.
@V Renee,
I think I’ll go with Patron Silver and Malibu on the rocks
The diversity and commonality of the people who subscribe to this blog really illustrates that we all, on some level, understand “The Black Experience.”
Insofar as that experience is concerned, I think that on some level(whether conscious or not) there are ties that bind us and I think we seriously need to re-define what encompasses ‘The Black Experience’ in this country and globally.
There are things that I used to say ‘Black People’ (read: ‘I’) don’t do when I was younger.(e.g. ski, play hockey, listen to country music, etc.*) Over the short period of time that has been my life, I’ve come to know black folk who’ve done/experienced these things and more and it’s forced me to re-examine my once ‘Blacker than thou’ attitude. (A defense mechanism. Admittedly overcompensating for my really dark skin when I was a shorty.)
While there may not be any ONE thing that defines us as Black people, (shit…we can’t even be unified on what we want to call ourselves much less agree on a single definition of Blackness) we ARE indeed linked and the sooner we realize that we can unify around our diversity and redefine our ‘Blackness’ for ourselves, the better off we’ll all be.
*Yeah, I realize that I’m generalizing and oversimplifying the ‘White Experience’ as well with these things but they are what popped into my head immediately as I gave it some thought.
@ThePhiladelphiaNegro,
please let ‘em know!
I don’t think there is an overall black experience. I don’t think WE all experience the same black but I do think WE have an overall UNDERSTANDING of how things operate around here! Co-peesh? Don’t ask me what that means..my daddy always said it …I think it’ means okay…lol
Go B.
“i’m a 29 year old black man who can honestly say that he’s never had to face any typical of unambiguous racial discrimination.”
my opinion…
the problem is that we as a culture (read Black American culture) do not grasp the concept that an “injustice anywhere is a threat to justice everywhere.” too many of our brethren and sisteren seem increasingly unable to empathize with the racism that still very much exists in this country and worse, seem unwilling to open their minds to the fact that yes…we have all been systematically affected. and whether or not you, specifically, can feel the direct effects does not eliminate you from the equation.
my personal problem with all of this is that i agree with you, there does not seem to be a shared black american experience. but the issue is WHY NOT? why are we the only group of people who opt to assimilate into a culture that does not (yes i mean that to be present tense) affirm our unique connection. most other groups choose to integrate so as to NOT lose that centralize cultural connection…black americans are seemingly the only goup that chooses to ignore any racial/cultural ties that might connect them to one another on a larger scale…constantly playing down race instead of playing up their racial pride…
i somewhat agree that “class distinctions are beginning to take full precedence over racial ones,” but i believe that to be a superficial smoke screen at best…racism is more about systematic power and control (the real ability to determine the quality of life for groups of ppl on a large scale) than it is individual occurances of racial prejudice and discrimination.
to examine that please look at the crime vs. punishment statistics among professional black american athletes/preformers/actors/musicians/et cetera, who have economically transcended the lower class, and the same crime vs. punishment statistics of their white counterparts. then examine the same statistics between blacks and whites in the middle and lower classes.
my point is that the inability of black americans to hold on to cultural ties that [would] bond increases our susceptibility to experiencing continued racial oppression…and further our willingness to believe that this country has transcended into a nation where economic status will become the major determinant of oppression is one of the reasons we cannot thrive in our own nation the way other cultures have managed to. (mind you, I said “one” reason not “the” reason.) We [mis]place our priorities on money first instead of embracing the concept of collective growth, just the way white folk trained us to.
(yes, YOU too, black man/black woman, suffer from the effects of racial oppression and your inability to recognize that only serves as its testament.)
…is there an all-encompassing, all-unifying “black experience?” maybe not. But perhaps being all-encompassing and all-unifying is a goal too specific to accomplish by any culture (especially one with such a high level of imposed shame and toxicity). Let us start by simply acknowledging the fact that we as black americans DO share a unique cultural experience that ties us historically and should connects us inherently…a beautifully eccentric culture in which we all can participate. “can” being the operative word here.
@adande, I’m glad you have never experienced such racism and for your sake I hope it stays that way. Where I’m from (LOUISIANA) it’s diffrent for black men your age.
And what is it that you think we should share? Any ideas?
@Go B,
1. the quote used at the top is directly from the champ and his post… my opinion is what followed.
2. im a woman.
@adande,
“We [mis]place our priorities on money first instead of embracing the concept of collective growth, just the way white folk trained us to.”
Preach!
This is why when they said CIO I said…I quit.
I’m a day late and all. And I know I can’t add much, but this: When we were at my brother’s graduation from an HBCU, everyone’s waiting for it to start, and the band is playing songs to pass the time. No one’s really paying attention, until…The band hit Happy Feelings by Frankie Beverly and Maze, and I swear, as if on cue, the whole place started singing and waving their hands in the air. It was beautiful. Hilarious. Priceless. Blackness. Some things are shared, we just don’t know it ’til we see it…