Really? You prayed for me so I can come back to this?
Aside from Tony Soprano, some serial killers and most Deltas, everyone loves their mom. In fact, you can hate any and every thing from kittens to your own kids, but nothing would garner the type of response a person would get when admitting they hate their own mother.
Anyway, everyone loves their mom. But, not everyone has a mom who everyone loves, and IÂ happen to be one of the people who do. I was aware of this even before she first fell ill—I’ve (half)jokingly mentioned many times that my friends like my parents more than they like me—and the avalanche of love and support she’s received has reminded me.
Much of this love and support has come in the form of prayer. People praying for her, praying with her, and even suggesting special prayers for situations like this. In fact, tonight I searched for “mom” in Gmail and looked at emails and Gchats I received around the time people first found out she was ill. Every single person who contacted me mentioned something about prayer.
While this has definitely—definitely—been appreciated by my mother and the rest of my family, this situation has reinforced the disconnect I’ve always had with prayer in general and prayer specifically for ill people in particular.
Now, I’m (obviously) not a theological scholar. But, I do know that Christianity, Islam, and Judaism all offer their true believers some form of an afterlife. And, in each case, the afterlife is a much, much, much better version of Earth.
If Christians, Jews, and Muslims believe this to be true, why pray for a sick person’s health to get better? I understand praying for their souls and salvation if they do happen to pass away, but if whatever comes after Earth is an unfathomably awesome version of all the best things we experience here, why would you want someone to get better so that they have to stay on shitty ole Earth a second longer than they have to?
Interestingly enough, this disconnect hasn’t altered my prayers in any way. I’m a Christian, and I believe in Heaven. I also want my mom to get better, and I’ll continue to do what I can to make sure that happens. This includes prayer, which may or may not help—the murky waters of God’s will is another theoretical pickle, but that’s another topic for another day—but what’s the harm in doing it anyway?
But, if I truly believe what I say I believe, wanting my mom to get better is a selfish want. An honorable and socially acceptable want, but selfish nonetheless. Perhaps this is where the disconnect occurs. Maybe I’m missing something, but if Heaven exists and if I believe Heaven exists, all this prayer for my mom is just me, in a roundabout way, praying for me.
—Damon Young (aka “The Champ”)
Well, the Earth isn’t shitty per se, but we have done a good job of fuggin it up. We have created bad situations too.
We pray for the health and strength of others, as it is in our nature to want people to live long, prosperous lives. The reality is that we should pray that god’s will be done. We should pray that god’s grace and mercy cover those who are connected to the one that is sick and infirm.
*passes the offering plate*
*puts a check for 10% in the plate*
i totally agree and so well said… just lovely
Thank ya!
“The reality is that we should pray that god’s will be done. We should pray that god’s grace and mercy cover those who are connected to the one that is sick and infirm.”
yay-men.
*puts in a check for 10%*
(on a side note, this made me think of the preacher’s wife, when courtney vance was talking to the kid on prayer…it’s like saying a small wish as you shoot the ball, hoping it to go in…even tho you may have had hours and hours of practice. it is what it is, tho)
*nods*
+1
+1
“The reality is that we should pray that god’s will be done. We should pray that god’s grace and mercy cover those who are connected to the one that is sick and infirm.”
good point
Funny.
You were the first person to respond and your comment is the answer to it all. Works in mysterious ways, the old folks used to tell me.
I like what you said, Five…
That will be done part is interesting. Last week in Bible Study a woman said she was praying for a friend who was facing the possibility of getting her legs amputated and the woman could not, would not, totally refused to say ‘thy will be done’ in her prayers. Because she was not prepared for God’s potential response. People in the class then asked her why she would assume that God’s will would be the worst case scenario. It was good that she was honest about her refusal though – because a lot of people say thy will be done – and don’t really mean it. In terms of a true surrender of the issue/problem to God. Try to snatch it from God or put their foot in it.
huh?
I agree! We are being selfish to want someone to stay here, making their transition unbearable. As said above, we should pray God’s Will to be done in that person’s life. I just experienced that with a beautiful man, my best friend on earth, my first true mortal love, my fiancé. I had to let him know that I love him, and it is okay to close his eyes; however he kept opening his eyes! He put up a fight to not leave me until his heart gave out; and God transitioned him Home. No more pain in a Glorious Body! God wants us to have long life and have it more abundantly than on earth; but, who would not want to go to an Eternal place, living in a mansion with streets paved of gold! I am continually striving everyday, every moment of the day to get there!
Exactly. It’s selfish, but most of us don’t think selfishness is always a bad thing (at least I don’t). To me it comes down to whether or not the person is suffering and what their quality of life is. If they’re tired and at peace with going to the other side then I won’t even be worried about it at all. I’m just sad that I’ll never get to see or converse with them anymore. And that is selfish, but it is what it is as far as I’m concerned. Good post though Champ
“To me it comes down to whether or not the person is suffering and what their quality of life is”
it’s funny how much gray there is in regards to all of this
T.Q. Fuego, it depends on if they have their life in order to determine where they are going. At that instant, they could call out The Name of Jesus Christ and be saved!!
And the church says Amen.
There’s a saying that goes you never truly realize what you have until you’ve lost it. The same thing rings true if you’re close to losing it.
I think everyone wants for a significant family member/lover/friend to recover from whatever they’re ailing from so that they can spend a little more time with them. Human nature to care for others and whatnot. But the sad truth is, all things come to a beginning and an end. Doesn’t make it hurt any less.
You just pray that the end is amicable and doesn’t leave too many scars…
You just pray that the end is amicable and doesn’t leave too many scars…
this is why my number one goal in life is to just be old and happy
You cannot be happy without joy and without personally knowing Our LORD and Saviour!
I’ve always had issue with prayer too, Uncle Champ. I always felt like I was asking Santa for things instead of actually being mindful of what I was asking this all powerful being to do for my life. So I stopped praying and just started talking to God. Telling Him what I wanted, what I thought, what I felt and…nothing’s happened, at least to my young eyes, and that’s okay. For me, God’s there to listen and be a friend *shrugs* anything else I have to make happen here and try to be a good person while doing so.
I’m not sure if praying for your mom’s health is selfish because it’s obvious she brings joy to so many people outside of just you and your family, so I wouldn’t feel too bad about that Uncle Champ.
I do want to say that I wish her all the health, and luck, and love a person could have. And I want to tell you that I think it’s really dope that you’re opening up to us like this.
And that’s all I got.
Hey Tes! When you said that you tell God what you wanted, thought and felt and it seemed like nothing happened, made me smile because as I said in my comment further down that I was taught to pray when I was little but I wasn’t always sure if it did anything but then as I’ve gotten a little older I’ve realized that it does in fact do a whole lot, I was just going about it the wrong way.
This older lady told me that when we pray we talk to God and he listens and when we read the Bible, he talks back to us and then she asked me do I listen when he talks? That made me think because I realized I was doing a whole lot of talking but was not doing very much listening. Ever since I’ve been trying to read my Bible a little more and I must say it has really helped me to think of God as a close friend and it has helped me to pray better and realize when my prayers are actually being answered. Hope this helps!
Hey Sincere!
I’m not a big Bible reader, but now that you mention it, that does make a lot of sense
Yes, SoSincere, God talks to you through His Word; however, you want an intimate relationship with Him! He will talk to you just like a friend like you are doing now!
There is a straight vertical line open up for communication to God, and a straight horizontal line to others, making a Cross. It is infinite lines to show His Love for us, along with our love for everyone!
There is a straight vertical line open up for communication to God, and a straight horizontal line to others, making a Cross. It is infinite lines to show His Love for us, along with our love for everyone!
I am glad of that SoSincere, and Kudos to the Christian lady.
I am glad of that SoSincere, and Kudos to the Christian lady.
yeah, the afterlife is our goal, but often the destruction brought on humanity by or collective sin causes disease and premature death. so we pray. it can be for our own desires of not losing a loved one, but it can also be to allow that loved one their proper amount of time to fulfill their purpose.
This is exactly why my friend always makes it a point to say that he will pray for God’s will to be done. It used to irritate me because the person asking for prayer usually is looking for some type of comfort from it and I didn’t understand it. Your reasoning about the afterlife being better than this one is exactly what he told me– God’s will be done.
There have only been two times when I have not prayed for an ill person’s recovery but for God to take them home. Lung cancer and medication errors was a horrible combination in both cases. And in both of these cases, they wanted to go.
Even if praying for your mom is an indirect way of praying for your ‘selfish’ wants, it still can’t hurt to ask. It’s a valid desire. Maybe what you’re really asking for is a more time with your mother to enjoy her presence, as you’ve now been presented with how important she is to you and how quickly life can change. Maybe you’re asking for more time to prepare yourself for what happens, whether it occurs now or 30 years from now.
I pray for the same things even if they are socially acceptable selfishness. I think everyone does to an extent.
So true!! You never know God’s Plan until His Will be done!
I don’t pray. I believe it’s what people do when they don’t know what else to do and it makes them feel like better. Not knocking that cause you do what you have to to get through.
But there are things I never understood about prayer: If it’s all God’s will in the end, He’s gonna do what He wants whether you pray or not right? Another. If more than one person prays for the same thing, like to survive something horrible but only one can, who’s prayer gets answered? Why?
It’s questions like these that I have never gotten a satisfactory answers to. Maybe I’ve asked the wrong people. Or, more likely, maybe there aren’t any.
Oh. And not everyone loves their mom. For reasons. Good ones.
Gives you an e-hug. It’s okay. I’m here for you. I also saw you last week while I was on my way at the movies. You looked great.
to* the movies
Uh…Thanks. #ThingsStalkersSay
Lol.
How am I a stalker? I only cross referenced your comments on VSB with your IP address, then pinpointed your Twitter updates and was able to decipher the origin of the device used to make them. A few calls here and there and presto!
The CIA is looking for people like you.
I think the FBI is looking for him too.
What would you say if the CIA is the one who authorized the search?
That’ll really help with your insanity defense.
I hate you. I really do. I hope you wake up one day and find out that your eyebrows have been shaven off. That’s how much I loathe you!
Ha! I would take a hit out on the person who would dare!
That you know too much and must be eliminated immediately.
No reason is good because The Good Book, The Bible, says honor your Father and Mother so your days be long. Forgiveness is the best medicine for the soul and heart; this can cause premature death!
No reason is good because The Good Book, The Bible, says honor your Father and Mother so your days be long. Forgiveness is the best medicine for the soul and heart; this can cause premature death!
I don’t think there are any real concrete answers, there can’t be. Every time something happens that you don’t like or don’t understand they tell you “God works in Mysterious Ways”.
Being a non-christian looking in, It seems like prayer amounts to little more than meditation. Which is fine, but why put yourself in a position to feel like your God wants you to suffer? That’s what I don’t get. “Ask and it shall be given” … Oh but if you didn’t get what you asked for it’s because you didn’t have enough faith? Or the Mysterious Ways argument? I stay confused about that.
sigh…so sad. so true.
I am very sorry to read about your Mother, and hope for the best possible outcome for her and your family.
Jennifer, as far as I know I’m the only none believer I know. Prayer, belief in a Deity and Religion is not foreign to me just incomprehensible.
Expand your comprehension; God’s Knowledge is too much for us to contain it all. “My thoughts are not your thoughts; my ways are not your ways.”
Expand your comprehension; God’s Knowledge is too much for us to contain it all. “My thoughts are not your thoughts; my ways are not your ways.”
Prayer is more than meditation! It is a Hope to Believe the inevitable! It soothes the mind, body, and soul; it is a guarantee! No, God does not want you to suffer. Jeremiah 29:11 says, He knows the thoughts that he thinks toward you, thoughts of peace, and not of evil, to give you an expected end. III John 2, Beloved, I wish above all things that thou prosper and be in health, even as thy soul prospereth. If you did not get what you want, God had something better for you in the long run not just for that moment. Even when my loved ones transitioned Home, they saw what God has for them because they were saved! I wanted to be selfish and want them to stay; however, they saw their Eternal reward. I did not get what I wanted at first, but they did-to transform in their Glorious bodies-no more pain, no more sorrow. I could not pray over what their will was. God knows Best! That is why we have to Trust Him at His Word!
Prayer is more than meditation! It is a Hope to Believe the inevitable! It soothes the mind, body, and soul; it is a guarantee! No, God does not want you to suffer. Jeremiah 29:11 says, He knows the thoughts that he thinks toward you, thoughts of peace, and not of evil, to give you an expected end. III John 2, Beloved, I wish above all things that thou prosper and be in health, even as thy soul prospereth. If you did not get what you want, God had something better for you in the long run not just for that moment. Even when my loved ones transitioned Home, they saw what God has for them because they were saved! I wanted to be selfish and want them to stay; however, they saw their Eternal reward. I did not get what I wanted at first, but they did-to transform in their Glorious bodies-no more pain, no more sorrow. I could not pray over what their will was. God knows Best! That is why we have to Trust Him at His Word!
Prayer does, hopefully, make the person praying feel better and gain strength but if your praying for someone else it should also give them strength too.
It will always be Gods will but you cant ask other people what they think about this or that. You have to study the word and pray for understanding.
One thing about prayer is that the harder you pray and the more vulnerable you are to the Lord, your more likely to get your prayers answered. God know’s when ppl just praying to pray.
Good words sweetness…
I’ll add that as a Christian you believe that good or bad, everything happens for a reason due to God’s will. He allows things, as horrible as they might seem to not only mold us into stronger individuals but to test our faith and completely depend on Him.
Why does He need to test our faith? Why does he need us to completely depend on Him? These strike me as rather base needs for such a being as God is said to be.
Should the Creator of Everything need constant reassurance through the suffering of His children? Seems a small, petty, @ssholish thing to do those He claims to love.
I am a Christian,believe in God the Father, the Son, and the Holy Spirit, thus far, BUT can I tell you, I’ve asked these very same questions, and not even this man of God who looks like John the Baptist-as per his description in the Holy Book, have yet to give me a concrete answer. It is frustrating, and I’ve just in the past couple of months left the subject matter alone as it just makes me angry.
By the way, hello, and great questions lady!
Hello to you to and thanks!
It is time for you to ask The Lord to show you were to go. You may have grown to another level that the church has not reached yet.
It is time for you to ask The Lord to show you were to go. You may have grown to another level that the church has not reached yet.
Yes, He does not cause but allows! Like He allowed the devil to afflict Job to see if he would curse God but he could not kill him.
Yes, He does not cause but allows! Like He allowed the devil to afflict Job to see if he would curse God but he could not kill him.
“One thing about prayer is that the harder you pray and the more vulnerable you are to the Lord, your more likely to get your prayers answered.”
You really shouldn’t tell people this.
+1 @ Witty P, but to each their own
I agree! You have to know that you know for yourself. There was a scripture in Timothy about women keep silent that was not what was meant. The first person That ministered was Mary Magdelene, spreading The Good News of
Jesus Christ’s Resurrection!
You do not have to pray long and hard, just sincere and consistent. The Pharisees and Sadduces had the most elaborate way with words but it was not in their hearts.
“Another. If more than one person prays for the same thing, like to survive something horrible but only one can, who’s prayer gets answered? Why?”
This is something I have pondered as well. What if someone is praying for someone to heal while that person is praying to go. *Shrugs* Well I guess it ultimately comes down to God’s will.
Again it supposedly comes down to God’s will. And His will should supersede everything. So, again, why pray? Why pretend He cares what you personally want or that you can change the inevitable?
Is it to feel like someone is listening? Everyone wants to feel heard. Even me. One of the reasons I come here to comment.
But, ultimately, you are still talking to yourself to feel better or to get to the place you know you need to be. Imo, it’s still your voice, your thoughts. Cause deep down, many of us know what we need to do to get what we want. Sometimes we just need a pep talk to accept what we need though.
Have faith in yourself instead of some all-powerful deity that seems mostly indifferent to you. Or not. Again, whatever gets you through.
“Why pretend He cares what you personally want or that you can change the inevitable?”
See, this is where I thought Champ was goin when I first read the title. He didn’t, but I’m glad you did. I agree with the selfish diagnosis by Champ though. Most things that Western religious doctrine suggest strike me as self-absorbed at best and delusional at worst. I LOVE Eastern religions like Taoism that are all about acceptance of what is, (self-)discipline and freeing yourself from ego. THAT’s some spirituality that I’m seeking. As far as the afterlife, I’m completely fine with not knowing. It’s gonna happen one way or another, so I might as well let it happen and find out when I get there. I don’t believe in hell tho…so there’s that. TAC you’re holdin it ALL THE WAY down today though. I wasn’t gonna comment today, but I couldn’t leave u hanging after you made such excellent points.
I think all religions, if I am not mistaken, advocate freeing oneself from ego and not succumbing to arrogance. Just because you may not see that in people who practice Western religions doesn’t mean that it doesn’t ask us to do that.
Furthermore, if by Western religions you mean the Abrahamic faiths of Judaism, Christianity, and Islam, that is misleading. They started in the Eastern part of the world, just like Taoism, Buddhism, and Hinduism.
Thanks for your response. Glad you feel like I made any point at all. I wasn’t sure and I was trying not offend in the process.
Regarding the afterlife, I do believe there is more beyond this mortal one. Energy can neither be created or destroyed and life is essentially energy. Or the soul, if you prefer. I believe this energy has to go somewhere, where I can’t know till I get there myself.
It’s been said that hell is others. But I guess heaven can be others too. It all depends.
Right. In total agreement with you TAC.
Faith in yourself will make you lose every time, ESP., during the storm.
God bless you, and I pray for understanding, knowledge, wisdom, discernment, and revelation. I pray this for myself, you, and others.
You should not pray over anyone’s will. This is why we should pray for God’s Will to be done on that person’s behalf!
Prayer, for me, isn’t simply about asking for stuff. I, mostly, say thank you. Sometimes I ask for direction. Sometimes I pray for others. A prayer for God’s will is simply humbling oneself, IMO, and acknowledging that it’s not your will but HIS will.
Exactly! Sometimes I just stand on my rug in appreciation for my life.
I do not see how a person cannot believe; I am in Awe of God everyday! How can you not see His Creation and not believe? Look at how fearfully and wonderfully made You are (Psalm 139:14)!
Let the church say Amen!
TAC, I really appreciate your honesty, I think there’s a lot of people out there that have wondered the same things but may not have ever voiced it.
)
Personally I’ve found satisfactory answers to those questions right in the Bible, it took me some time though….lol.
Here’s what I found…. … Every bad thing that happens is not God’s Will. In the Bible at James 1:13 it says that “when under trial let no one say, ‘I’m being tried by God’. For with evil things God cannot be tried nor does he himself try anyone.” So, God is not the source of all the bad things that we see going on around us. Not sure if you read the Bible but if you do or even if you don’t at least look up Job 34:10-12 because Job went through a whole lot of bad stuff but he still said that he knew for a fact that God himself does not act wickedly.
So, basically when bad things happen it does not mean that it was God’s will. However, there are things that truly are God’s will and that’s where studying the Bible comes in because that’s where we really find out what God’s will really is. That way we don’t have to rely on the proverbial “they” to tell us what’s God’s will and what’s not. (I’ve personally found that liberating
In regards to prayer, God does listen to our prayers. And there have been times in the Bible, (I mentioned one in my comment further down) where God has decided to do one thing but because of prayer has decided to do something else. In fact there are even times in the Bible where it says that God felt regret in his heart over a decision he made, (even though he had every right to make it) because the people involved prayed earnestly or had a change of heart.
In regards to two people praying for the same thing, and only one gets it, well I would imagine a lot would depend on the situation and what was being prayed for. Ecclesiates 9:11 says that unforeseen occurrences befall us all. So with that being said sometimes things out of our control just happen but we can pray for the strength and help to deal successfully with these trying circumstances.
Not sure if that helps you out at all but I’ve found knowing those things comforting. Check out this link, I found it may explain things a little better:
http://www.jw.org/en/publications/magazines/g201107/why-so-much-suffering/
Thank you for trying to answer my questions. I appreciate it. Oftentimes true believers seem offended when doubt is cast upon their God and/or religion.
As for the Bible, I gave up on reading and trying to understand it years ago. What I read seemed so contradictory to me at times, I wasn’t sure what I was to use as a guide and what to dismiss outright so I sorta dismissed everything. So I can’t promise I will turn to it for further answers but again I appreciate you at least suggesting where I could start.
I will check out the link though. I’m a sucker for a good read.
The Word says do not forsake your assembly. Get into a BIBLE-Based church with other believers. Study to show yourself approved!
Thank you for James 1:13.
Prayers are an outlet to talk to God but most of us do not listen due to being too busy asking for THINGS. God’s Character is not Respect of Person; however, He wants all to be saved and enjoy Eternal Life. He is a Gentleman, meaning He does not make you do anything you do not want to do. You have free will, a choice to be saved or not. Those who did not make it may not have repented for their sins. At a twinkle of an eye, a person can repent; it does not take a long, drawn out prayer! Maybe, you should pray if you do not know the answer for yourself. It is Healthy to know that there is A Higher Deity/Power than us! Invest in your life! Get to know God for yourself. Ask a Christian you may know to guide you. You can fb me, and I will be glad to assist you. The best thing you can do is to become a Believer. Confess with your mouth and believe in your heart that Jesus died for our sins and God raised Him up the third day; you shall be (not will be) saved. Just calling out Jesus and believing it can mean all the difference whether you spend Eternity in Heaven or Hell! It is real. Do not wait too late!
Besides the prayers at church pre-school before snack time, I’ve never prayed. But I guess if you do pray, the highest form of prayer for a sick person would be for their comfort and/or peace of mind… Whatever that means for them, even if that doesn’t match up with what you want for them.
Heaven and Hell is real, my Sisters and Brothers! Do not wait until it is too late. You will always be tormented in Hell
As an Atheist, I usually don’t mind prayer. I just think it does absolutely nothing.
The only time prayer bugs me, is in a medical setting. My goal in life is to be a doctor. A neurologist/surgeon. And the biggest thing that annoys the f*ck out of me is when, after a successful surgery/treatment, the patient’s family/friend walks past the doctor, and say to the patient, “Thank God, you’re okay! I prayed so much for you to get through this!”
Excuse me…
Thank God? So, me, the surgeon who actually did the surgery had nothing to do with this, right? It was you, on your knees, eyes closed, and hands clasped together, doing nothing but talking. That’s what made the donor’s liver leap into your husband’s body? All the medical schooling, which also put me in an azzload of debt, was a non-factor, right?
You’d be surpise as to how many people ignore the HUMAN aspects of “miracles”. You want to pray, fine. Just don’t ignore the human element. Acknowledge doctors and everyone else that deserve it. Say “Thank You”.
They will say that God worked through you or gave you the ability to learn how to perform the life saving surgery.
But if your patient dies, you, not God, will get the blame. Lovely how that works, isn’t it?
Nope it will be God’s will. But you do have a point, if the doctor were to say that out there mouth, the whole family will forget about God’s will all together and go for his throat.
YUP. *nods head repeatedly*
you literally might be the only person id let look at me tuk. im gonna fly you to my house and you shall perform that jigsaw brain surgery. please and thank you my love!
No prob. When I become a doctor I’ll make sure to give you a thorough check-up.
Give her a lobotomy lmfao
BOL! Even I didn’t go there!
I think you’d love this Wikipedia article:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Studies_on_intercessory_prayer
This times a million. I wish that for a 30 day period those that claim to believe in a god had to rely on him/her/it for everything. No man-made conveniences like A/C or combustion engines, just everything natural as the good lord intended…
*searches for helmet* *dons flak jacket* Things are going to get real in here!
lol I’m saying tho… Stand by your convictions.
Those that believe in God do rely on God for everything if they believe all things are made possible by God.
that is such a cop-out… sorry, I need to go sit in the corner today.
“Whether you can observe a thing or not depends on the theory which you use. It is the theory which decides what can be observed. ” Einstein
but not what is
Theories are meant to be tested and confirmed or found to be lacking. Since you cannot test ‘faith’ or the followers resists the conclusive results that faith in God is silly… it’s no theorem.
Join Bill “Christianity is a Philosophy” O’Reilly in the time out corner. lol.
lol! I understand it isnt a theory. I was making the point that if you are a believer you tend to see things one way while if you are not you see it another. Where you land has a lot to do with where you start.
Yeah I’m not even an atheist and I think TAC and TUK are clearly winning this one as far as infallible points and perspectives. These cliche (and imo not that well formulated) answers from the believers just aren’t doing much but confirming what I’ve been thinking for some time now…Maybe somebody will come through and hold it down for the Christians though…
“Yeah I’m not even an atheist and I think TAC and TUK are clearly winning this one as far as infallible points and perspectives.”
what is there to be won?
Clarity, coherency, and consistency without contradiction or circular logic is what’s to be won imo. If you read my other posts though, you’ll see that I’m not an atheist either, just not sold on the typical reasoning and thought process of most Christians that I converse with.
you say…”circular logic”…
but…
hm. how do i word this….
i understand that the crux of discussions, especially web-based ones like this, is that we alll have our different life experiences, which contribute to our own unique opinions on a subject..and we share and discuss with others…
when you say “win”, in terms of having the clearest, most logical thought process…
i kinda ask myself…”how can you have a logical discussion about a non-logical concept like, ‘faith’?”
I guess what i’m trying to say, is that i don’t think it’s fair, or logical, to try to have a “who has the best” contest/debate on a non-logical topic.
i could be wrong, but…that’s just my opinion.
Your premise is faulty in that it assumes that “man-made” and the divinely influenced are mutually exclusive. Science and God are not contradictory. I think of them like two books written by the same brilliant author–or two chapters of the same book, even.
Have you ever truly examined the H2O molecule? It’s magnificent! [I'll resist the urge to go supergeek. ] To examine the structure of something as basic yet highly complex as the water molecule and to denounce it as coincidence is the sheerest form of arrogance and ignorance.
To counter your original point, I wish that everyone who claims NOT to believe in God would try to live 30 days without HIM or any of the things he created. Stay thirsty, my friends.
“Science and God are not contradictory.”
THANK YOU! Agreed!!!!
I think the contradiction is little more than a veneer covering simple politics. When you look at who is pushing one side or another, these weren’t people who were going to agree on much anyway. Simply put, it’s politics under another name.
“To examine the structure of something as basic yet highly complex as the water molecule and to denounce it as coincidence is the sheerest form of arrogance and ignorance.”
False. To think that you, a fragile, imperfect human, is SOOO important that a perfect being that can literally create universes actually cares about what’s going in your mortal life, despite all the complexity and beauty that is the universe, is the grandest form of arrogance. To automatically attribute something you can’t explain to a God, without even a shred of evidence to back the claim, and to tell others you don’t NEED evidence, is the grandest form of ignorance.
“I wish that everyone who claims NOT to believe in God would try to live 30 days without HIM or any of the things he created.”
I’ve lived 14 years without God (been an Atheist since I was 8). Now what do I win?
TUK, not to divert the topic too much, but I have a question for you and the other atheists/agnostics/non-believers on the board. I remember reading that people who trend our general direction tend to have weaker social ties than average. (The implication is that Belief in God is an emergent property of social interrelatedness, which higher relatedness leads to a great likelihood of belief.)
Do you think compared to others that you have stronger social ties? I know keeping it 100 that I’m not one to easily feel deeply interrelated to people. I’m wondering if others feel likewise.
I’ve been a Christian for 14 yrs… a non-believer for about… 5 months. But I’ve never been a people person. But I do notice that my new status as “non-believer” has quietly excluded me from a lot of circles I once belonged to. Not in a judging way, but there’s clearly a divide now once they find out about my “change”… but both parties contribute to the divide, i must admit.
My sister says I’m anti-social. I say that I’m not wired for human interaction.
Either way, I find most people pleasant enough but I prefer to be alone. I’ve never really thought how that may or may not relate to my atheism.
I like to think and do on my own terms and something about being a “follower” doesn’t sit well with me. And religion in my family was about blind following; no questions, no doubts.
Thinking about it, rejecting religion may have started out as a rebellion but it became more as I looked into my non-belief and tried to answer why it just clicked for others but not me.
like…. at least 5 VSB girls
“False. To think that you, a fragile, imperfect human, is SOOO important that a perfect being that can literally create universes actually cares about what’s going in your mortal life, despite all the complexity and beauty that is the universe, is the grandest form of arrogance.”
I find this contadictory, in that I consider myself, fragile human that I am, to be part of all the complexity and beauty that is the universe. Thus, I remain grateful and in constant awe of this perfect being that created it.
“To automatically attribute something you can’t explain to a God, without even a shred of evidence to back the claim and to tell others you don’t NEED evidence…”
Crediting my existence and that of the universe to a higher power was not automatic, nor did it come without evidence. I was raised in various traditional religious settings that taught me to view prayer as a magic wand and Christianity as a battering ram. As I got older, I began to feel the same disillusionment that many feel, however, I also had several experiences which could leave no doubt as to the existence of a spiritual realm. My adult decision to remain in Christianity came after years of struggling to find common ground between what I knew to be true and what I was taught to believe.
My heart aches for people like you, because behind your vehement denial of God I hear notes of frustration and betrayal because He was not who you were told he was. The traditional church has become such a bastion of hatred and exclusivism that the very term “evangelical Christian” has become a synonym for bigot; and the average person claiming to be Christian bares so little resemblance to Christ that the religion has a whole is becoming a running joke. So like you, I trashed it all. Then I started from the beginning. Christ, as man, existed.
This is documented fact. As a man, he lived a life that I find admirable and wish to emulate, so I try. That is my religion, in a nutshell.
” I also had several experiences which could leave no doubt as to the existence of a spiritual realm.”
Me too, but there can be a spiritual realm without the necessity of religious doctrine. That’s why I don’t get the need to pin down exactly what that realm entails, or to insist that it requires so much from us while we’re in this realm. I’ve just seen really intelligent people add more meanings or incorrect meanings to situations, circumstances, and events way too often to be sold that that’s not what’s happening here. Why would be punished for not knowing? This ish is way too complicated and iffy for the stakes to be that high. That’s one of my biggest issues.
“This is documented fact. As a man, he lived a life that I find admirable and wish to emulate, so I try. That is my religion, in a nutshell.”
I agree, but was his name actually Christ though? Also, I wish to emulate him as well, but don’t think I need to be or identify myself as a “Christian” to do so….
Release me from moderation! I had quite the noteworthy response if I do say so myself lol
Ain’t that the truth. I know a lot of non-believer have this floating around in their head, so I know it’s true. As for me, it’s not the intolerance thing. It’s just that religious faith isn’t something I have a capacity for. I’m not against religion, but to me, it’s like offering Lance Bass some nani: interesting, but ultimately a waste of everyone’s time. No hate as much as non-interest on my part. Think of it as an amicable divorce from the Church where it’s not them, it’s me.
+1 Well said Todd
What he said.
I think ‘Boo Radley’ meant God’s creations ..like say water!!!!!!!!! you all can live with out that????…not if you have been worshiping HIM
Thank you for that comment.
Boo Radley: I wish you would go supergeek
“Your premise is faulty in that it assumes that “man-made†and the divinely influenced are mutually exclusive. Science and God are not contradictory. ”
nodding head
Yeah, I agree with that point too, but I still don’t think it’s necessary to be in tune with God solely through Christianity which if I’m not mistaken is a tenet of many denominations of Christianity. That’s of my 3 biggest beefs with Christianity as my own personal spiritual guide.
Athiest do not say H20 is a coincidence. Where do you get that? All things in the universe are consequence of the big bang.
Magnets, how do they work?
What? “Faith without works is dead.” I.e., you have to be a co-laborer with God. Or as one minister put it, “if you think God will do it all for you – ask Him to brush your teeth when you get up in the morning.” You cannot for instance just pray for a job and expect one if you haven’t done your part like doing a search or sending out resumes. And anyone who calls themselves a believer and does so is foolish. Believing and relying on God is not the same as expecting Him to be your servant who has dinner on the table every night and caters to your every whim. This idea that believers are treating God like a genie is intriguing to me.
No, God uses Vessels who he sees fit. He made and fashioned you how He saw fit to
*looks at the title* *prepares for isht to get real in the comment section* *makes nachos*
Oooh…nachos. Can heathen’s partake? *doesn’t wait for an answer and begins to make a plate*
I’ll make the mojitos.
Can you make margaritas instead? They go better with Mexican. Mojitos are for Puerto Rican food. Lets have those Friday with some mojo pork & rice. Mmmmm!
*rolls eyes, walks away from bar while loudly sighing*
Mmmm…mojo pork and mojitos sounds yummy. Give it a shot.
*Knocks both on the floor.*
F*ck moijtos and marguritas and all that sh!t. We’re drinking Mountain Dew. Both the original and the Code Red kind.
I thought only meth addicts and Honey Boo Boo drank Mountain Dew Code Red?
DON’T YOU DARE! You will NOT associate one of the greatest sodas of all time, with meth addicts and Honey Boo Boo. I will not let you defile the Holy Dewness!
I like the White One!
Hmmm…not a Meth addict, not a chubby White woman from the South *checks skin, weight and crotch to be sure* but I drink Mountain Dew Code Red. If I ruled the world, I would replace the coffee makers with Mountain Dew fountains, but that’s just me.
You gotta have the white and the blue too!
yes!
Thought guys didnt drink mountain dew since it supposedly gives men a low sperm count.
annnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnd passes out……SAY WHAT?!??!? I have never heard this one…LMBO!
Why did I just hear that from my son a week ago.
BOL!
That’s the Original Mountain Dew, though if you and your Husband/Boyfriend want to Avoid Accidental Kids then stock up on as much Original Dew as possible
Mojitos are for Cuban food, actually. And for anytime during a weekend that you feel like something with lime in it and a kick with a bit of fresh mint.
*Knocks all the nachos on the ground.*
We’re not having nachos. We’re ordering pizza.
I’m a get someone to pray for you.
Praying for him right now…lord please….
*holds hands with msdebbs, bows head and joins in prayer for TUK*
*Slaps msdebb’s and Breezy’s hands down.*
Stop it.
Nothing but the Devil. Smh.
You’re horrible *lol*.
*Picks up nachos off the floor and says grace* Jesus, be a 10 second rule
“That Ugly Kid
on 12/04/2012 at 2:15 am said:…..”
“I Am Your People
on 12/04/2012 at 2:42 am said:…..”
10 seconds my azz, IAYP.
tuk……….i am laughing SO hard right now. slapping peoples food to the ground…
Is there lactose free nacho cheese?
No. *walks around silently farting and lamenting my decision to eat nachos*
*passes T2I some Lactaid*
*sprays Lysol and stretches a match to naturalize the e-air*
*eats wings in the Christian Corna*
*proceeds to burp for 90 minutes straight*
From what I understand prayer is really about submitting to the will of whatever God you believe in. But, people have taken prayer and made it into simply a selfish thing. Most ask for things rather than simply praying for acceptance of what ever happens.
Word. And the worse part is when they complain when they don’t get EXACTLY what they prayed for, then take it out on God. Like seriously? You think the creator of the universe is supposed to care whether you get a pony, a car or a significant other? GTFOHWTBS.
“You think the creator of the universe is supposed to care whether you get a pony, a car or a significant other?”
I think about that too. I think as humans it’s almost impossible for us to see the true big picture.
Yes. That’s exactly what I believe too, Val.
I fault clergy for not doing a better job of teaching about prayer. It really took me ignoring the teaching of the church and religion in general and figuring it out on my own.
Clergy don’t want to do that because it takes away from their “power.”
+200! Folks wanna wait till everything goes wrong & they’re at they’re lowest point to start praying. It doesn’t work that way, ppl. When’s the last time anybody prayed (besides WIP) after a particularly GOOD day, when everything was going right? Me personally, I talked to god multiple times a day, everyday. I give Him a play by play of the good, bad, & errythang in between. Remember those T-shirts, “Jesus is my homeboy”? That’s how I honestly feel.
“When’s the last time anybody prayed (besides WIP) after a particularly GOOD day, when everything was going right?”
True. I try to remember to acknowledge the good things in prayer.
LOL, hopefully i didn’t sound to self-righteous when saying that because i have a long way to go in my “walk” but I have found gratitude goes a long way, in general. My first “thank” is in the morning when I wake up grumbling about having to get out of bed, thank God I woke up!
So do I Ice…every SINGLE TIME I get a chance I just say thank you…I do. I use to be one of those “break in case of emergency” praying people but my relationship with God has evolved over the years.
“Most ask for things rather than simply praying for acceptance of what ever happens.”
Exactly! Something that it doesn’t take a religious belief package to do. Texts from spiritual teachers can CERTAINLY enlighten, strengthen, and inform your perspective and mentality, which is why I still seek them, but it’s not like you’re doomed to suffering and hell if you don’t believe a specific one that’s been designated as the authoritative voice on the matter. Ya dig?
The problem I have with religious text, mostly the Christian Bible, is that they have been re-written numerous times by many different people and churches. And they each had their own motives for doing so. So how am I supposed to trust any of it?
Right! Same here Val
I believe in prayer, God, & Jesus…..I think prayer works according to God’s will. But this topic right here is gonna set some people (non-believers) off. God gives you free will to believe in him and his word or not to. I just wish folks would respect each other’s opinions and believes..
+1…and I say this as a non-believer.
+30000000
Yes and yes…well said. I wanted to say something along these lines too but given the history of VSB when subject matter comes up like this…
I think these days would be hard for believers… yeah
Not hard at all MJOY!. Its just sad to watch people go at each other because you don’t share the same views as they do.
No need to troll and attack someone else’s point of view…furthermore my faith in God, who He is and what He means to my existence is not shaken by today’s dialogue at all.
Its all good!
everyone whos ever known me has been sucked into the loving folds of my family. its one of those things that make me happy about us. most people find healing and true love with us and i just feel good about it. the quality of service to our community. my mother was a b*tch for passing me the torch though. i still cant, to this day acknowledge i love her. she raised me well and ensured i was as a god meant a woman to be, but i surely didnt ask for her crippling, overbearing and controlling nature. loving her is my fathers duty but ill be sure to pretend she got all she deserves from him. mothers are special.
my problem with prayer is that it isnt action. to me prayer is pretending you arent capable of doing or arent capable of doing more. theres a homeless person on the street im not gonna pray for them im going to help them.
sometimes in my younger years and even still in the present i feel like im antagonized because it keeps me going. i tried to have this conversation with my dad and he just yelled at me and condemned me like im out of line for pointing out my suffering. ‘well…if you just do this! well maybe if you stopped doing this! well maybe if you pull some random will to suffer through this out of your a*s like youve been doing in this cage of melancholy we raised you in….’ at some point i just wanted him to look at me and shut up. seriously….look at me. im done.
million dollar baby style let me go peacefully on a personal high of ‘i was here’ ness. i think its selfish to not put me down or let me go. i think its pointless to pray. and i think it makes logical sense to die. coldest thoughts ive ever had in my life. ‘i dont know why youre so upset when its more cost effective to pay for a cremation.’ ive released him from holding me up. its less about whether i wanna live or die and more so about how i want my life to be over. death is guaranteed peace. its easier on everyone.
I’m praying that one day you will use CAPS at the beginning of sentences.
Wow, Val. By the way you sending shots, I would’ve assume you from Chief Keef’s neck of the woods #Sosa #BangBang #ThreeHunna
I’ve never been to the South Side, but I’ve seen it from a plane, I think. I have spent a little time in Chatham though. Which is technically on the south side of Chicago but not the South Side. Or something like that.
Chief Keef’s not in jail yet?
Nah. He’s about to drop an album in a couple weeks, actually. You know, because the Mayans predicted this would happen and sh*t.
Oh yeah, I forgot its about to be a wrap for all of us.
i also dont use caps boo ya
ap style comments are so overrated.
*Searches for Grammar Jesus and realizes it is a woman who looks like Miss Mavis*
youre searching for the holy son of grammar, only to find that it is a woman? i dont get it.
lmao, oh boy lol
I’m still on the fence about praying myself. It just seems to help people stay calm in a time of adversity. If it works for some, yeah for them.
I prefer meditation and acceptance of reality. Prayer encourages me to expect something. I’d rather just deal with the only thing I can change. My mentality and outlook on said reality. I can’t see how God would frown on that or antagonize it. So I’m gonna stick with this until further notice.
A selection of my thoughts on the efficacy of prayer.
- Prayer does nothing except soothe the mind of the prayer… a therapy/coping mechanism of sorts. As such it’s not a bad thing, but don’t think for a moment that you’re changing anything outside of yourself.
- The judeo-christian concept of an afterlife is another therapy/coping mechanism. At least you have something to dream of when life gets shi**y and the bad guys are winning.
- Sometimes things are so far beyond your control that you can only watch and wait as events unfold.
- If God sees all, has preemptive knowledge of all future events, loves us, lives within us, knows our hearts, and has the power to change things, then why pray? Seems like an exercise in futility. Also, why is it imperative that you beg Him and remind Him of His promises before He acts?
- If God is all powerful, why bother praying for His will to be done? Kind of redundant. Was His will ever NOT going to be done? What makes you think your prayer will tip the scales in favour of the will of an almighty God? Hasn’t God defeated all His foes? Who is left to stop His will?
- In Northern Nigeria, last Christmas, some Christians were in church worshiping when their church was bombed by militant Islamists. Murdered as they worshiped their God. Surely, their prayers would have guaranteed them some protection? Was it God’s will for them to die like this? If yes, then wth?? If no, then was God powerless to stop the massacre? Some would argue that they were praying to the wrong god. I don’t know.
PS. I mean no disrespect to all that believe in the benefits of prayer. I just question its efficacy.
So what do you think about ghost?
You mean my favorite member of Wu-Tang?
Lol
Chef > Ghost tho
Gza > * out of the Wu tho
“- If God is all powerful, why bother praying for His will to be done? Kind of redundant. Was His will ever NOT going to be done? What makes you think your prayer will tip the scales in favour of the will of an almighty God? Hasn’t God defeated all His foes? Who is left to stop His will?”
And here it is. I expect there will be no answer to this.
for me, the heart does not need answers so much as it needs to unburden itself. prayer is one road to release. i think, in and of itself, that is enough ~*~
I agree esa. Whatever works for the person as an individual. I prefer meditation but to each their own.
I asked the mushrooms in the mountains of Oaxaca and they said the purpose of faith was so the reality that is our existence will continue. Without faith, hope, and its verbal version, prayer, there is no belief, if there is no belief, there is nothing. Kinda like the matrix, every person’s belief in existence makes it so. Belief being the kernal of faith added to will and words and you have a world to live in. Making “something” happen on the micro material level is an art we are not sophisticated enough to master. Yet.
Daaaaaamn WC…that post was sexy as f*ck lol. Mushrooms were an integral part of many ancient spiritual practices (marijuana too) but you’re labeled a druggy in Western society for that sort of thing. I trust the Native Americans with spirituality WAY more than the Europeans, but that’s just me…they guy
“Making “something†happen on the micro material level is an art we are not sophisticated enough to master. Yet.”
Exactly! This is my life’s purpose. I swear I wanna give u a hug right now for that whole post. Very well said.
You are reading my mind. I’ll take it a step further… I happen to believe everyone who prays is necessarily praying to their own, separate, individual God. It simply can’t be possible for the same God to have more than 1 person’s interests in mind because everyone’s interests conflict directly with somebody else’s.
I meant to reply to shewhomustbeobeyed.
bear in mind GOD is not a man
My mum suffured a brain aneurysm in ’96, which left her paralyed on the left side of her body, as well as short term memory and demetria.
Ppl prayed over her saying she would get better…she never did.
Me and my older bro cared for her until she passed in ’04.
It made him a more religious(family)man…and me, more cynical.
I still pray sometimes.
Yeah, illness and death can definitely have an impact on your relationship with God. I stopped praying and going to church shortly after my Dad died. I don’t feel cynical toward the church or God, I just don’t feel…anything. And that’s kind of the point. Somehow I expected to feel closer to Him, for Him to ease the pain and provide clarity.
Instead I got nothing except tired, trite cliches about my Dad’s death being “God’s will” or how he’s now in a better place. It may sound selfish, but I expected more from Him. I gave my time Sunday after Sunday (and some Wednesdays), praising Him and giving thanks for everything He’s done in my life. And to get nothing in return, especially when I really needed Him, is a slap in the face. I’m not saying that one should praise Him only to get something in return. Just seems like a very one-sided relationship is all, one I’m not willing to put anymore effort into.
I’m sorry for you’re lost but for my understanding what were you expecting in return from god?? I don’t want to sound mean or cold but people die and get sick everyday it’s just a part of life. I was recently diagnosed with a disease( I don’t plan on sharing with the people of VSB) and I prayed everyday before the results came in for negative results. Well they weren’t but it didn’t make me feel different about god. I’ve learned how to deal with my illness and he’s blessed me with family and friends to get me through. I guess people just deal with sickness and death differently.
I won’t speak for Aly, but I will say that actually watching someone die who you were very close to is quite different from anything else. There is really nothing you can compare it to, not even getting a disease.
I know that numb feeling she is describing very well. It lasted for almost a year. It’s hard to describe in words, but that feeling of not feeling anything is very real.
It’s not cold at all, it’s a valid question.
My Dad died unexpectedly and alone. My son was the one to find him. I’m mainly looking for clarity on his behalf. My son blames himself for not being able to help my Dad. He also questions why he didn’t have the chance to say goodbye while my Dad was still living. These are questions that I certainly don’t have the answer to so I turned to God. I prayed for an answer and received nothing. I refuse to tell my son it was “God’s will”, or that it’ll make him stronger or whatever cliche thing you’re supposed to say when someone dies. He’s the type of kid to question everything and doesn’t buy this.
All I know to tell him right now is that death happens – sometimes we have the chance to say goodbye, sometimes we don’t. It’s painful to realize that you won’t get to create new memories, so we focus on the old ones – summers he spent with my Dad, funny stories. It’s the only thing that I know to do.
I’m sorry to hear about your illness.
i guess as humans we dont have the answers to these questions, when my cousin died i was angry at God for a while but i have learnt one thing and come to acccept that, humans live and die, that is just the way it is..i cannot explain why kids die, natural disasters.I would like to “someday”know the answer though
I definitely understand both of these comments. I went through similar in my own grief process.
I think what ultimately helped me from a spiritual point of view was the simple fact that there was no good time for my wife to die. It happened far sooner than I wanted it to, but on the other hand it’s not like it would have ever been ok. I would have always asked for another year, month, day, minute, etc.
In all honesty, the only real way for it to have worked out without me catching the bad end of the deal would have been for me to die first.
So although I don’t do it as often, I still do pray. I just changed the prayer to include asking for a level of acceptance when God’s will isn’t what I wanted.
And I’m sorry for your loss too, TheWidower.
too much pain can lead to numbness. it’s a necessary coping mechanism. it is only when that numbness becomes a wall to deeper healing that one begins to question again.
maybe, let yourself melt a lil bit .. it’s scary because there is pain there and the pain needs out. but, in my experience, God can help with this, if you are willing to open your heart ~*~
I am sorry for your loss, Kid.
It could be a selfish want but that is okey… i mean the after life is glorious but there are no specifics, no pictures..what we know (if your religious) has been told to us by respective religious books, this is what we know so it makes more sense to pray for her to stay a little longer.
Prayer, like most other human acts, has its good and bad side. On one hand, it may be a way of showing that they’re with you as you journey through life. Even though I’m not a believer, I’m not going to turn down someone’s sincere well-wishes. Perhaps I’m less cynical than most non-believers, but sometimes people just really care, and prayer is the best they can do at that moment. Often times, prayers can motivate people to do something here on Earth, and that’s something even the biggest atheist can get with on some level.
On the flip side, prayer can be a metaphysical equivalent of a church hug or a whine. At its absolute extreme, it can turn people into non-believers because they think God is supposed to drop what he’s doing and give them whatever they want, then flip and turn heathen when they don’t get their way. (Personally, I would love to drag some of these atheists into church and force them to tithe at gunpoint, but that’s just me.) Even without the those extremes, people will use it as a substitute for concrete positive action. I know when my wife first got hospitalized, my wife’s large, religious family made a point to say how much they were praying for us on Facebook…but couldn’t bother to make a few hour drive on the weekend to see how she was doing or (save for one uncle) make a phone call. There’s also a real tendency to use prayer as the ultimate passive aggressive weapon against people as well. I know anger is recognized as a part of the universe, but it isn’t your job to act as a controller for that anger.
Then again, I’m trending more towards the Zen buddhist tradition of acceptance these days as opposed to the Abrahamic notion of dominance and submission, but that’s just me.
“…but couldn’t bother to make a few hour drive on the weekend to see how she was doing…”
Yep, there are a lot of religious people who talk the talk but do not walk the walk.
I feel you Todd.
And I’m the one who thinks “Why would I want to tell God what to do? Isn’t that what prayer is? Telling or begging God to do what I want God to do?”
Having watched someone I love die, and what comforted her wasn’t the pain medicines, wasn’t the food made for her, although appreciated. It was the prayers done with her and for her.
This is how I am able to not begrudge people what brings them comfort and peace.
I am big on allowance and boundaries.
Also in the mix….*some* people use prayer and religion as a whip to beat down people with…to break spirits, to shame, to condemn, to control, to gaslight then it becomes too much like abuse.
Thanks for posting that, because thanks to all the religious schooling I had, and the resulting opportunities thereof, I’ve come across a lot of both groups over the years.
I think people tend to forget that the people who show up in various faiths are, in fact, people with all the strengths, weaknesses and vagaries thereof. There is this odd tendency to focus too much on the symbols of faith as opposed to the practitioners when discussing religion and faith, and it’s a shame because we miss the beauty and tragedy of mankind. God did enough when he created us. Let’s enjoy the product of that creation.
Yes, that is because some people lost their family due to this, or were abused due to this and really did believe their religion was going to be a safe haven not a place where their dignity was taken from them. Being disfellowshipped is real in those streets for some, as well as living in communities where one is told their whole life that God is angry with them as they are viciously punished by who they were told were “God’s people”. I do hear your point, Todd, just pointing out how its more than religion being used as a whip but masses of wounded people as a result of it.
But isn’t the concept of total submission the same as acceptance? You’re basically accepting God’s will, whatever that is, by submitting to it.
Submission has a necessary element of control, at least how I understand it. Acceptance means just that, with nothing more or less added to it. I know both can mean the same thing, but the first term has an element that squicks me.
I was always taught prayer without action is useless. A quote i remember is “faith without works is dead.” Praying is not a passive act. Too many people treat God like a genie and praying is like rubbing a magical lamp. Just pray and wait. Praying is not only showing dependance but in showing faith in God. If you truly believe in what you pray in you will live it. You are showing faith in God and being active in your prayers.
Exactly!
When someone is sick you can pray that they make it through that time and that God blesses them and keeps them. You can pray for their health and that He heals the pain. When you ask God for these things it is still praying that his will will be done. It is also not for you but for that person whether its their time to pass or not. Thats why you hear some people say they are glad the person doesnt have to suffer anymore when they do pass. …and thats also why the Lord’s prayer is good for any situation cause you can always ask for God’s will to be done…
I have no problem with prayer to be quite honest with you, as I have little problem with spirituality. I do have problems with religion which is “collective spirituality.” Personally, I think people who pray, are smarter than people who dole out hundreds to thousands of dollars on self help books and psychotherapists who are apparently “scientific” because they have “Dr.” in front of their names or are apparent “gurus” in things that are completely foreign to your culture.
Pray and do what you can to cope and maintain sanity, it’s your life and not for other people. Whether it is selfish or not it’s nobody else business, as long as you keep it to yourself. When one has a dream – that moment in sleep is as real as it can be – it’s not for other people and one can’t go out there explaining it to people, unless one wants to appear insane, even though we all have dreams.
Life is a tidal wave and we’re all just surfers trying to maintain our balance and hopefully do a special move every once in a while. Hopefully, your prayers will lead to one of those special moves.
I don’t read alot of your comments but this was a great post….well done.
Had to delurk for thisbone. Prayer, according to my pastor, is a conversation with God. It isn’t like sitting on santa’s lap and asking for things. You are actually communicating, expressing your state of mind, your needs, your trials etc and then waiting and listening for a response.
So when a prayer goes up for your mom, it isn’t just a request, it is someone talking to God about what’s going on, how they can bring her and your family peace and some direction.
Sometimes you pray that God will reach the person you’re praying for and that they can have the conversation that will grant them peace and direction. Now if you’re a non-believer, then this may seem pointless, etc. that’s just the way prayer was explained to me. Some people meditate, some pray, others do both, and many choose to do neither. So champ, if its okay, I will keep you and your family in my prayers as I have gone through a similar situation myself.
Have a great day ppl!
yes.again i say yes. god is not your sugar daddy who you go to when you want something. he should be your friend and confidant. he needs to live with you and not be someone who visits. who you can kick out when you grow tired if his presence. all things work together for your good. let god’s will be done.
Exactly!!
Champ, now you are begining to understand why religion can be so profitable. When you get people to believe in something that defies comon sense and give you money for it. Everybody wants to go to heaven, but nobody wants to die to get there.
Sportscenter Top Comment Nominee.
Yes. L. Ron Hubbard for the win!
I’m a longtime lurker but I had to comment on this post because the subject is near to my heart and a big part of my life… my mother has fought cancer twice. Breast cancer than about ten years later brain cancer… she has had multiple rounds of chemo and different meds, dozens of life or death operations…. but she has never given up on this life even though we believe in heaven. Once you leave here, you miss interactions with family, grandchildren being born,milestones being met, just so many parts of life. Yeah heaven is supposed to be different, but as long as the person still has fight in them and a desire to remain among loved ones, I think there’s nothing wrong with praying for good health and strength. Even if that’s all you can manage to do, sending up some encouragement and love in a prayer. Can empower someone more than we know. I pray your mom continues to be a survivor. Best wishes (and prayers) sent your way.
Prayer is what we do becasue it is what we have been taught for centuries. When all else fails PRAY
Nah, prayer is my convo with God. Its an ongoing thing and it is never a “when all else fails” type of thing.
that is the intention but like twerkers on YouTube most are doing it wrong.
Is this a two way conversation? If not then it is not a conversation.
^^^ Exactly. Talking to the voices in your head is a sad dialogue to be sure.
Yes its a two way conversation…I hear God speaking to me all the time. If you are not in tune with your spirit then you won’t hear God…But people who aren’t spiritual can’t receive these truths from God’s Spirit. It all sounds foolish to them and they can’t understand it, for only those who are spiritual can understand what the Spirit means….this one scripture is very true and its so evident on days like this on VSB.
I understand if we all don’t share the same beliefs but I don’t understand why folks have to resort to attacks because I believe in GOD.
~ I understand if we all don’t share the same beliefs but I don’t understand why folks have to resort to attacks because I believe in GOD.
when i was without faith, i questioned everyone who had something i never had. sometimes i was angered by other people having something i was without, but i tried to frame my anger as disdain, and i tried to raise myself up as superior as a way to “level” things.
which was as sad and barren as my heart. why was i so busy comparing myself, and why did i need to put down other people in order to be “right” ?
now that i have faith, i can hear all words against God with compassion and understanding. i know what it is to not believe, and i take no offense at Atheists. they have their own cross to bear, so to speak ~*~
+1
Breezy, I believe in GOD. What I question is religion because it come with man’s interpertation and that is the weak link.
I think this whole topic is more about spirituality tha religion since prayer is based on having a personal not the fellowshipping with others that believe then same thing.
Prayer does little to nothing, I don’t believe it even makes the prayee (is that a word) feel better because if things don’t turn out as requested then the prayee still usually feels slighted. Prayer, in my humble opinion, is a way to do nothing and make yourself feel good about your inaction.
‘Two hands working can do more than one thousand clasped in prayer.’ – Not sure who said it but it’s so true.
I think prayer comes in when you don’t have any physical control over the situation. If there’s no cure for a medical condition… how many “hands at work” will solve anything at this point either? That’s when we rely on faith… which is a concept that even people who DON’T pray are familiar with.
Yeah I’m familiar with faith. My question would be how many cures has prayer produced? Ever? Now how many has science (working hands) produced? Science may take years or even decades to produce a cure but that’s still a much better track record than prayer.
But still my point when science only goes so far (anything beyond our control), folks still rely on faith. And to be familiar with faith, you have to realize you don’t need “proof” to have it. That’s kinda of the entire concept behind it…
And I mean, if we gonna with cold hard facts, you’re only focusing on when folks prayers AREN’T answered. What about when they are (And I say “are answered” based on that personal persons beliefs)? Because everyone with sense knows that not all of them are.
You should check out the scientific studies on the curative effects of prayer.
I agree with FIVEISTHENUMBER comment above and will add in the bible there are numerous things stated as “God’s will” for our lives and one of them is”… Rejoice always; pray without ceasing; in everything give thanks; for this is God’s will for you in Christ Jesus.”
So Champ keep on praying…it works, it changes things…it even lifts your feelings in the moments when you are depressed, confused and hurt by these circumstances and life in general.
Hiya, Breezy!
Hey Val!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
I actually always thought that death was something that affected the people left here in a sadder way than the person who dies. Because, like you said, if heaven is a better place, if it is our true home so to speak then when we pass away, we would be at true peace.
Even when we talk of death when it happens, most of the talk is about the people we’ll miss… or more accurate, who’ll miss us. Because since we don’t know for sure what happens in afterlife, the people who WE are fully conscious of dealing with death… are the people here still alive. It’s the only perspective we really have.
And I mean, at its core, what we pray for is that one doesn’t have to suffer. And a lot of it is selfish. Because we’ll miss them. They will miss us too… in a sense that while they’re still here, they think of what we’ll do when they leave us. But, I guess that’s why when we realize our loved ones are “ready” to go… we have to let them go.
*hugs*
Heaven is a funny idea, when my mother passed I can picture her up there raising hell (No pun intended) like “the fuh you mean I can’t see my family anymore”. If I died today I can’t say I’d be excited for a life in the clouds, there’s so much I want to do here. Give me another 60 suttin years please. Shrug life.
It seems most turn to prayer as the last resort instead of the first, tend to wish more than thank. Sometimes it all falls into place like an RG3 fumble, other times it doesn’t and we chalk it up to His plan. Prayer has become our way of adding our 2 cents to something we don’t control anyway.
“It seems most turn to prayer as the last resort instead of the first, tend to wish more than thank.”
Prayers of thanks are powerful.
All of you who have lost your mothers…tears again…
In the bible there are numerous things stated as “God’s will” for our lives and one of them is this “… Rejoice always; pray without ceasing; in everything give thanks; for this is God’s will for you in Christ Jesus.”
Champ, I know praying in your circumstance is sometimes confusing, painful and even at times almost feels pointless because what you are literally seeing with your eyes is incredibly overwhelming and dire. But continue to pray, continue to believe for the best and continue to trust God….I don’t know why we face these circumstances in life and from my vantage point I can’t tell how bad circumstances now will eventually work out for our good but I do believe in God with all my heart and I totally trust Him.
BTW Champ, TD Jakes sermon on Sunday is something I would encourage you to listen to. You can view and listen his Sunday sermons M-W from their website. I am listening to it now and I think its something that would be helpful to you.
Why am I in moderation?!?!?
Great post. I usually observe, but today I had to comment.
I lost both my parents.. One when I was really young (my mother) and I remember the day she had her anuerism my grandmother telling me to get in the room and pray that she’d be ok… I prayed as hard as a 6 y/o could and after 9 days of being hospitalized God took her. And 11 years later similar thing happened with my father this time I prayed for God to have his will and do what he believed was best. Difference between the two situations is I was of course older and understood life and death, but I also knew it’d be selfish of me to want to hold onto my dad (also my bestfriend) when he had already been called home. I said all of that to say–it is more than ok to be selfish! You can pray for your mom to be better, but God will always do what he wants to do. And whatever he does you have to know in your heart that it was right — don’t question it.
This topic is extremely big for me and has been the crux of my entire personality and growth in my now Quarter Life:
Death and Disappointment was always a common thing in my childhood- Drug Addict Mother, Hypocritical Dad along with his relatives, having my First and Only Firend at the time (my Older Sister) left me behind to deal with the dysfunction of our famils so that She could Deal with it all for Herself, etc., and all the Prayers I cried out in the hopes of getting my family some kind of Clarity and Help never came At The Time. Even at a Catholic school where there was a Low Black Enrollment NONE of the Religious talk and teachings seemed to rub off, so I became numb on everything and everyone. I became an Agnostic at 12 years old, and with that I dabbled with Drugs, Suicide attempts, Sex and Gang Violence on my own, Didn’t heed the warnings and Mediation from my relatives, the Associates and Aquaintances of my fellow classmates, and so on.
My Mother ended up getting clean, but my Dad nad his peoples were still Contradicting in the bashing of my Mom while my cousins were Dope Boys, Prowstitutes and scheming left and right; I asked more Philosphical questions in class that pissed off the Nuns and Preists because they couldn’t answer it without saying God This and God That. Watching somebody die In-Front of you and you Don’t Scream, Run, or have Nightmares about it, as well as not feeling like Praying with Everyone Else for their Soul to reach Heaven sealed it all and I was only 16 then. I lost a Child at 1 by Abortion when I was in a breif relationship and the Iron Wall that I had for most of my life started to crumble because things that were about Me Alone were falling abart and the prayers I gave to God were also not being answered, both in the Way I wanted/needed them to be and At the Time. It took me meeting my current S/O and completely hitting Rock Bottom in the form of Attempting Suicide multiple times and looklike I got into a fight with Edward Scissorhands for me to SLOWLY seek, understand, and work on being Spiritual again.
I haveAlways believed in God, and in being Agnostic I Respect other religions and Don’t Claim that Christianity or Islam or Judaism is THE Offical Religion, I take the Good of all three, including Hinduism and other religions and use them in my life to TRY and gain some Peace while I still breathe on this planet.
Testify ! i love this ~*~
that you are Agnostic only makes it that much more beautiful.
“In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.” — John 1:1
long before i found God (not religion) i had words. words were my everything. i’ve spent time meditating on the nature of language and i’ve come to determine that words are are proxies for the original, a system of symbols we (mis)take for the thing itself.
yet .. to name something is to make it so. words call things into being. they become our thesis, our theory on life that we consciously and unconsciously set out to prove. i try to be vigilant of my words because of this; rephrasing when i am able to catch myself in disempowering/negative speech.
in the Buddhist tradition, there is the idea of “Right Speech”, which i also questioned until a deeper truth began to sink in. words are tools, weapons, potent like spells, non-spatial objects of the mind, the tongue, the ear, and the eye. and words are endowed with powers that we may never comprehend.
prayer, as i understand it (with no religious framework), is putting your deepest heart into words and sharing this privately with God. this is a sacred communion that uses words as its vehicle, and that is why the words and the intention behind them are so important.
when you become One with The Word as you pray to God, something happens. i dont know what and i dont know how or why, but God + Words + Intention = Blessings and Curses (which are really two sides of the same coin).
which is not to say you get what you ask for. you get what you need, even if you have no idea what to do with what you are given, or how it relates to your prayers. for me, spirituality is not a linear, logical process. it is a thing of faith, and as such it illustrates how (ahem) rational thinking will always come up short.
when we pray, even though we use language, i believe we leave the space/time continuum in order to become one with that which is greater than our ability to intellectually process it. anyone who has ever had a “religious” experience knows what i mean. it’s like magic, but it’s only magic because it forces us to acknowledge the limitations of rational thinking are not actually limitations of the mind itself. we can go far beyond the rational if we are willing to release ourselves from “the known.”
which, i’d like to add, is neither here nor there unless you make it so. thus, people decide for themselves if prayer does or does not “work”.
“anyone who has ever had a “religious†experience knows what i mean.”
I would probably be more cynical about prayer if I had not had such experiences myself with it. I am now very careful what I pray for. I rarely ask for much (well in my opinion it ain’t much) because I have found it to be powerful. He does seem to present you with what you need and leave it up to you to take action. I’ve seen too much not to believe at this point.
I used to be cynical about prayer until I discovered that prayer, followed my action (and vice versa) worked best for me. I went through a really dark period once and if it wasn’t for group therapy AND discovering God I would have probably continued in that dark place. I’m not Miss Light here but I’m able to bounce back from darkness much quicker than I could in the past and I feel I can really overcome anything by trusting in God and tying my camel.
Amen, Champ! Amen!
Very well written and thought out post my brother… that last sentence took the words right out of my mouth (in a sense).
God bless y’all.
I feel you, Champ.
When my godmother was battling cancer, the prayers changed from our own desire for her to remain on this earth to her finding comfort in our prayers *with* her. Our prayers changed from wanting her to heal to her gratitude to God for the beauty of her life.
Everyone loved her. That’s why she and my mother were such close friends. Everybody loves my mama. And my mama loves everybody. Matter of fact, if my mama hears me mention anything about this post, she will be praying for you and your mother, Champ. And asking how she is doing as if you and your mother are our people.
After mulling a response, I’m pretty sure any comment I make is going to sound insensitive as hell but that isn’t my intent…
I’ve more so heard prayers of simply letting the Lord’s will be done, more so a prayer of preparation. Usually the prayers for a person to stay if they have a lot more living to do. I don’t think that’s selfish, even if it fills a need for you, because life is a gift. Praying that they survive is not selfish from that perspective. I can’t recall what the Bible says, if anything, about what happens after death before the rapture.
“Prayer is not asking. Prayer is putting oneself in the hands of God, at His disposition, and listening to His voice in the depth of our hearts.†-Mother Teresa
Hiya, AM!
*waves*
Val darling!!!
God made us in His image. in more ways than we know. the essence of creation is love and hope and free will and words. in the beginning was the Word. Prayer. the purpose of the created is to create new creations of love hope and free will through words, through prayer.
it’s not the end that is important but the journey and the time here. We are little gods and the angels envy us.
“it’s not the end that is important but the journey and the time here. We are little gods ”
Yes…just YES…Word to Bob Marley on that.
“nothing would garner the type of response a person would get when admitting they hate their own mother.”
I think this is interesting and true. My mother abandoned me and my sister when I was 3 and I’ve maybe seen her 3 times in the 24 years since. I am getting married next year and my fiance and family are shocked that my mother is not invited. I don’t understand the reasoning that just because she is my “mother” she should be invited to my wedding when she’s opted out of my whole life.
Now I don’t hate her, she just doesn’t exist to me, but people are shocked that I feel that way.
“But, if I truly believe what I say I believe, wanting my mom to get better is a selfish want. An honorable and socially acceptable want, but selfish nonetheless. Perhaps this is where the disconnect occurs. Maybe I’m missing something, but if Heaven exists and if I believe Heaven exists, all this prayer for my mom is just me, in a roundabout way, praying for me.”
Damon, I’m not the most pious man trodding the planet but I do believe and I’ve always prayed. My mom put up a fight for almost three years against breast cancer and when it metastisized to her brain I prayed even harder that modern medicine could make some headway. Even after we were told she had to go to hospice I prayed even harder that she would find serenity.
Then I prayed even harder for my family so that we’d stand tall. For the first time since 1963 my pops lives alone so I no problem being selfish for him or my siblings. I never stopped wanting my mom to get better but you know what being selfish to an extent comes along with being a man or woman. If having someone you care about that much that you ask God himself to do the most for them is a problem, then chalk that up as a good problem. So yeah, I assure you that you are praying for you via your mother and Champ there’s nothing wrong with that.
+1
+2
Not everyone talked about prayer when you wrote the lovely piece about your mom. (See: Me). I do hope that the cancer goes into remission forever, however. I wish your mom to be well soon.
I have an issue because people call on God for all kinds of things… so when that thing doesn’t materialize… what does that say about God? Right.
It says that God is not subject to our wishes. We are subject to His.
So God wishes for people who are murdered before begging and praying for their life? Sounds like a douche move if you ask me.
To you, but “good and bad” according to our human understanding cannot be the same as good and bad from an omniscent perspective. If everyone could pray for what was good to them, even if we all agreed on the definition, some people would lose. And thats just based on human logic. So, from God’s point of view……
God is not human, you can’t apply human rules to Him.
+1
Hey Champ, Im really sorry to hear about your mom, I’ve dealt with a parent being sick before (my dad had bone cancer) and it was one of the hardest things I’ve dealt with. Prayer is one of the things that helped me and my family get through the most. I’m in in my early 20′s and I had been taught to pray all my life prior to that point but I think it was then when I realized what it meant to really pray and rely on God.
I don’t personally have the answers to the questions you raised but I’ve found over the past few years that the bible does have the answers (which has helped me tremendously as I wondered some of the same things). One of my favorite scriptures is Philippians 4:6,7 it says there to not be anxious over anything but in everything by prayer and supplication along with thanksgiving let your petitions be made known to God; and the peace of God that excels all thought will guard your hearts and your mental powers by means of Christ Jesus.
I love that verse because it helped me to realize that God wants us to come to him and talk to him about anything & everything. He invites us too so with that being the case, no you are not being selfish for praying for your mother at all.
It is true what folks said upthread about we should pray according to God’s will… to add to that there are also times in the Bible where God was going to do one thing but because of him being the loving and understanding God that he is, he decided to do something different because of a prayer of one of his servants. Check out 2 Kings chapt. 20 and read verses 1-6……there King Hezekiah found out that he was sick to the point of dying and he turned to God in prayer and I believe he was weeping too, I mean he was messed up basically because he realized it was about to be over. And God answered his prayer, he even added 15 years to his life.
Now thats just one example, does that mean he does that in every case? No, but it does show that prayers do work, they can help the individual being prayed for as well the person offering up the prayer. That scripture I mentioned at Philippians 4:6,7 says at the end of verse 7 that the peace of God that excels all our thoughts will guard our hearts & mental powers…….that in and of itself is a blessing because think how many times we have been stressed by something or you could even think when we have a loved one who is sick how mentally distressing that can be….well prayer helps us to have peace of mind, it can help us calm down and make rational decisions in irrational situations. Prayer can also help us to have the strength to deal with various situations, irregardless of how bad they are. It does this because we realize we are relying on something much more powerful than we are. In our own strength theres a lot of things we just couldn’t do but with God’s strength he helps us to deal successfully with things we never thought we could.
This was ridiculously long……..but I hope it helps. I will keep your mother in my prayers but I will also keep you in my prayers too and by saying that I basically mean I’m going to ask God to give you & your family the wisdom and strength to deal with your situation, and I know he will
This was Wonderfully Said!
I agree that the Bible has all the answers, we just really have to want to know what God has to say and believe what God says and has done.
Awesome topic… I am a Christian also….my parents taught me that when a person is ill and we pray, to know that God will have his way but to ask that God give that person peace and comfort. It makes a whole lot more sense to do that then to beg God for something that is like Champ said, selfish. Depending on the person, that can be hard though…
This post brought tears to my eyes.
Mine too. I can’t deal today.
Hey girlieeee!!
Hey AM! Teary here but sending you my salutations anyway!
Very interesting topic….
If your question is about why pray for someone to be healed if heaven is promised to be better than this earth, here’s my response:
Those who profess to be follower’s of Christ have a purpose to fulfill while we are living. That purpose being to please God in all that we do and to lead others to Christ so that may glorify Him. The Bible says that the righteous shall scarcely make it in. Therefore, no one really knows just how much it will take to make it into heaven. When we pray for those who may be ill, going through hard times, etc. our prayer should say “Lord, if it be your will, restore my loved one so that they may continue to fulfill your will and give you more honor and praise.” So if we refocuss our attention on our true purpose, our prayer will be corrected eliminating selfishness. Hopefully that prayer will be what you feel in your heart as well. But one thing about God is that He can fix our heart if we want to be fixed and he can mend our hearts if we ask Him to mend it. That’s why I also include the “if it be Your will” part. If we truly trust God, we will trust His will for our lives.
Now on your overall disconnect with prayer, please know that if you don’t believe when you pray, you hinder your blessing. The Bible says ‘for he that come to God must first believe that He is, and that he is a rewarder of them that diligently seek Him.’ Therefore you have to believe in Him and that his final decision is what is best, because again, you are only praying that his will be done as others have said above.
And lastly, keep praying. The Bible says to pray without ceasing. Even if your belief is not as strong right now, include in your praying/talking to God to help you believe more in him and His miraculous powers. Even if you have to ask him to show you a specific sign, do that because I know he is real and His promises will not return unto him void. God does not want to be and will not be proven wrong!
God Bless!
My neighbors son has lymphona. We just found out 3 weeks ago. Since then, he’s been checked into a hospice, revealed to have mulitiple lumps from his stomach to his spine, lost 33 lbs, and pretty much since he doesn’t have insurance, I believe they are waiting for the emergency Medicaid to run it’s course as he gets ready to pass. Now he’s 37. His mom is in her late 60s. She’s not in great health herself, but I see that burying her child is far more detrimental to her than anything right now, including what will happen to his children (possibly going to the foster system).
I have not prayed for him. And I won’t. I hope that he gets better. I really do. But this thing acted fast and he might not even make it to then end of the month. But I’m not praying because I don’t believe in God. I do, in my own skewed way. I’m not praying because this seems like it is meant to happen.
I’ve had people say to me they prayed for me everytime I was sick or in the hospital, which is a lot. But as far as I can tell, God wanted things to be a specific way for me, and that’s how I’ve had to play it. So this is my thought towards anyone I know that has a tragedy. To me it’s not about your prayer, it’s more about how things are going to naturally be. I don’t know…I just don’t do prayer. Can’t ask God for something if I’m not willing to give him something in return, and I don’t have anything to give.
I suppose I’m outside of the “people will actually scroll down this far to read this” comment window, but I’ll make my remark, just the same. Perhaps writing will bring clarity where just thinking on it hasn’t.
As a Christian’y (emphasis on the y) person, I believe there’s a Being responsible for us being here. As others have mentioned, I think He/She/It/Insert Pronoun will do their will regardless of our entreaties.
And yet I ask for things in prayer. Perhaps it is more of a comfort to self than anything else. It doesn’t make sense, but I do it (like remaining a Redskins fan).
The area of prayer (and the practice of my spirituality) I have less difficulty with is expressing thanks. Prayer as a vehicle to say thank you I can get with. It still feels one-way conversation’ish, but at least my words are bringing something new into the world. No matter how many times I pray, God’s will is gonna happen. It’s redundant. It’s futile. But with each day I’m given breath, I can say thank you anew. Perhaps that’s worth the knee-bend.
And like remaining a Redskins fan, I’m hoping for a RGIII’ish revival of sorts, that will make everything make sense. Until then, I’ve got the “y” suffix.
I knew people bought into those Hope posters of RG3, but not like that. LOL
lol, the MNF win = divine intervention(s)
Not to mention the Wiz kids beating the Heat.
“all this prayer for my mom is just me, in a roundabout way, praying for me.”
Essentially.
People pray so that they can do something when there is nothing to do.
*e-hugs*
Here is an idea…how about if you don’t agree with another person’s belief or point of view …you simply DO NOT COMMENT on that person’s post. There are certain individuals who I don’t agree with on here on a daily basis but I would never attack them because they don’t view the world as I do. Being out right nasty, disrespectful and arrogant because you believe in everything other than God does not make your views RIGHT or the be all an end all of the discussion. You catch more bees with honey instead of vinegar and maybe others would be more willing to listen if you had less venom in your tune.
P.S. Even if there wasn’t a GOD I would still believe because the one things that he ask us to do is LOVE ONE ANOTHER…to be kind to others…..on days like today I wish we would all just do that…LOVE and not spread so much hate.
“Here is an idea…how about if you don’t agree with another person’s belief or point of view …you simply DO NOT COMMENT on that person’s post.”
I wouldn’t go that far. What’s the point of even having comments if people can’t disagree with me and each other? There is a way that disagreements should be done, though—especially about a subject as sensitive as religion—and that doesn’t involve attacking or being condescending.
Agreed Champ, and I think we’ve done an AWESOME job of that today. Let’s take a second and pat ourselves on the back real quick and then do the tootsie roll in celebration Because well…the butterfly? Uh uh that’s old…
Love you Breezy
Let’s go get a bucket of chicken and…
Love you too girlie!!!!!
I believe in healthy dialogue and discussion, Breezy. Why can’t they respond to you if their opinions differ? Perhaps your issue isn’t that they respond, it’s how, am I right?
Asiyah: I believe in having a healthy conversation too and I don’t mind how folks respond to me or anyone else. However I do get annoyed when it goes beyond that to “you silly because you believe in XYZ” etc. I am open to everyone’s views…heck I learn alot from the different experiences on here almost daily but when it becomes nasty…I just can’t deal. So what am saying is if someone comment/prospective GRINDS YOUR GEARS so much that you find yourself about to respond in a way that will offend, insult or possibly hurt them…then don’t. We don’t all have to agree to get along…just be mindful of others. That is all.
Gotcha. That’s what I thought you said but don’t like to put words in people’s mouths
Goooooooooooood Laaaaaawd!
Breeeeeeezy Baby! Breathe mama, breathe!
MAMI…I am breathing…lol
Breezy, love ya but you’re not being persecuted when someone challenges your beliefs. If your beliefs are strong… a tit for tat on a blog comment section should hardly shake them so.
Amiright?
Hey Sassy Mama: True but what i said and why I said it has nothing to do with my faith being shaken at all.
Heh! Flashback. Greetings most eloquent ladies of Delta Sigma Theta (*chapter censored*) Chapter Incorporated! Rough mornings. Rougher nights.
I always questioned whether or not He would disrupt the economy of the universe to answer individual prayers. I questioned the divinity of Jesus Christ (along with Dr. Martin Luther King, Jr. (check his dissertations while at Crozer University)). I fussed at God when I locked myself out of the house again on accident because I KNEW a buss arse was coming when my mother got home (I told her that I was going to rub her underwear with coweetch plants. Bad move. The telling her part, that is).
Yet Still I Pray! PRAYYYY! Pray! PRAYYYYY!
Because I wonder – akin to transmitting radio waves into deep space – if someone will not only hear my prayers, but listen. They’re largely focused on self-improvement and realizing potential. Occasionally I’ll ask if He can arrange for me to bump – just bump, mind you – into Tanesha Awasthi. I’ll give her the Chiney Man Sex Eye and…well, that will be that.
It is a selfish act, especially in this context but not negative. Its how we deal with the suddeness of life’s changes. Who wants their Mom to leave their life? Its called bargaining with God. We all do it at one point or another, we want the best for our loved ones, but if it doesn’t cause us the pain of loss. Wanting the best may actually be the end of their life which would cause us pain and separation, and we aren’t ready to deal with that. So we bargain for less pain and suffering while they’re here with us so we can have them close. Its a selfishness yes but not a sin in my eyes
why do bad things happen to good people? and if God is real, why does he allow bad things to happen? and if life is destined by God’s will, why does it matter if we pray or not?
God welcomes all of your questions and challenges regardless of who you are, what you believe, and for how long. Seeking wisdom and understanding about God is one of the best things you can do.
Here’s what I know.
Everyone’s had that experience where you’re out having a real good time with friends and some drama queen catches a case. Their hissyfit shifts the energy in the entire room. Same event, same people but suddenly you feel different about what’s going on because the energy shifted.
Just like when you are having a really bad day and someone says or does something to make you smile or feel love and joy. Same day, same problems suddenly you feel different. It’s an energetic shift. It’s the same energy that explains why you like being around some people and yet run the other way when cray-cray rolls up in the spot. It also speaks to the power of intercessory prayer to heal and deliver.
Prayer shifts the atmosphere – the energy within you and others- to a higher frequency of love, peace, joy and hope. Prayer is not your Amazon Wish List of wants linked up to God’s Black Card. Prayer is not about changing the situation to suit your personal view of how things should work out. God asks us to acknowledge the truth and be at peace with whatever comes. So Champ acknowledging that you want your mom to get better and live longer is not selfish it’s truth. It is the beginning of your conversation with him not the end. Ask God to give you wisdom peace and understanding about what happens and he will do just that.
Prayer is about bringing your spirit to a place where you are able to see ALL events in your life from God’s perspective – the good, the bad, and the horrible things that are hurting someone you love. Ego laced with entitlement is a hellava drug. God doesn’t move to please us, we move to please God. And, if you are willing to move to please God, you eventually see that every.thing. works to your benefit in greater ways than you could ever imagine and ways you could not see before you moved. All because God knows and accepts everything about who you are, he loves you dearly, and he wants what is best for you even when you fight the air trying not to allow his will.
Because God loves us unconditionally, he gives us free will to choose to believe or not believe – to move or not move. Love cannot be taken it must be given. So our relationship with God is a choice to give him love and to receive his love. His love being perfect makes us feel undeserving, and quite uncomfortable – even shameful at times – because we are human and therefore undeserving and shameful in what we think, say and do. If you’ve ever had someone -like a mom- love and care for you half as unconditionally as God does, you understand that feeling of affection is almost indescribable.
Everything that happens isn’t something we like or even want. Everything we want isn’t something that makes us happy. Just like looking back on your childhood, there are things that happened that you didn’t like but they actually allowed for something else that would not have happened otherwise. Now that you look back and are more mature, you can see how that event shaped who you are today.
God’s infinite wisdom and power allows even the most dismal circumstances to have light, love, and hope. I know this because, my own mommy was diagnosed this year. Chemo is not a game. Through it all, it shaped my perspective, helped me to grow up a bit more, and strengthened my relationship with her and with God. It works the same in your life IF you are willing to look at the good and bad events in your life the way God does. Each decision you have is a chance to move or not move & God leaves it up to you to decide.
And please remember er’body has at least 1 “unfortunate personality” in the your family tree that you would rather not claim but shows up to each and every every single function reppin the family reunion tshirt. Same thing with Believers AND NonBelievers alike. Don’t judge me by my cousin. I won’t judge you by yours.
For all the frustrated knowledge seekers and curious questioners, please keep asking such great questions Don’t be afraid to ask someone to explain something they believe. You’ll both be stronger for it. That is exactly why I go to bible study each week – not because I know it all, just because I want to know more. I’m thankful for the parents, pastors, teachers, adults and friends in my life that allowed me to ask some of these very same questions. And I hope what I’ve shared has been helpful to you in some way.
Champ I’m praying for your mom and your family. Thank you for this post.
I’m trying tounderstand, is your problem with prayer in general or what people pray for?
I know some people said that praying is selfish, but I disagree, I think what we pray for is/can be selfish.
This is a very good topic and something I’ve often struggled with, wondered about as well – especially when I attend funerals where folks are grieving hard. And I think, wait. Aren’t they supposed to be in a better place? Sooo… I think this is why you find that often older people, or people who have dealt with and survived a life threatening illness or other type of experience – are often more at peace with death and the possibility – than most of us who are just walking around. My granny is 86 now and every year she’s like, “wellll I might not be here next year.” I always want to scream, “don’t say that!” But it’s true. And it’s scary. And no amount of prayer will change that. Because she is going to go sometime. We all are. And even if you are not a believer in God or a higher power, unless you commit suicide – no one knows the day or the hour – your mortality is out of your control. That’s a scary thought for most. And while what happens on this Earth ain’t perfect at least we know what it is and ain’t. So even when believers pray, I think there can be an aspect of selfishness in it because we want God to do what we want Him to do and usually what we want is the best possible outcome or situation. But is that selfishness or human nature? Or are they one in the same?
I couldn’t even read this article after the first sentence throwing shades @the Redz though…..smh
“but if whatever comes after Earth is an unfathomably awesome version of all the best things we experience here, why would you want someone to get better so that they have to stay on shitty ole Earth a second longer than they have to?”
My sentiments exactly. I’ve thought this a thousand times but could never quite communicate it…Well said. I remember the first time the concept of praying “God’s will” and well, it truly scared me, because at the time my dad was praying for “traveling mercy” but he added the caveat, “if it be thy will.” I was afraid of flying at the time and worked myself in a tizzy fixating on the fact that it could be God’s will that I might not make it to Mexico and back in one piece. That was 10 years ago.
When people are ill, I try to pray for their strength, and for the strength of those going through the illness with them and leave the healing part out of it. I’m a Christian and I love God and Jesus, but sometimes I question the point of prayer. I mean if God knows my heart, why do I have to put it in prayer form? It’s not that I don’t want to, I just wonder why it’s necessary to tell Him what he already knows.
I applaud your honest expression. Thinking about pray and death opens many dilemnas and conflicting views, even on a personal level. Why do I not get my prayers answered according to my wishes even if I follow the formula which say you have to believe?
Do I not really believe or am I only hoping and not believing? Is it that I am not praying God’s will? Or is prayer really not necessary because the future is God’s will? These questions have been debated for eons. I don’t believe it is a debate that will be settled.
To live is CHRIST and to die is gain, according to the Bible. If you’re a Christian, it’s important to note the “genesis” of a matter: death and sickness weren’t in God’s original design. So to pray for someone to be healed is to pray that what God neither designed nor caused be removed from the equation of a person’s life.
Plus within the Bible there are more verses regarding how to live than what the afterlife will be like. LIFE is the gift we’ve been given, and the afterlife is the conclusion of that gift. Praying for God’s will means praying against anything that’s not like God. Sickness is most definitely on that list.
It’s the fear of death and the selfishness that we (humans) possess when it comes to losing a loved one. There’s a quote that says…. “Everyone wants to go to heaven but no one wants to die to get there” !!!!! Kinda True !!!
We pray for healing for two main reasons and several smaller ones: 1. Life is a gift, no matter how bad things are on earth. 2. Isaiah 38:1-5 God added 15years onto the life of King Hezekiah as a result of prayer. God has plans for our lives. If we live, we can carry out His will. It’s not about us, it’s about Jesus. Our healing from illness may have a life altering affect on a lost person. Our relatives may not be ready to say goodbye. Illness involves suffering, but healing through prayer is a wonderful experience and a gift bestowed on those who receive it. I could go on, but you can’t get the answer through a website. Invest in your relationship with God, ask him your questions and you will be led to the answers. And if not, have faith: Hebrews 11:1 – faith is the substance of things hoped for, the evidence of things unseen. Be blessed.