Let’s Wait Until The Facts Are Out Before We Rush To Conclusions About Tyree King’s Death » VSB

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Let’s Wait Until The Facts Are Out Before We Rush To Conclusions About Tyree King’s Death

13-year-old Tyree King was shot and killed by police officers in Columbus, Ohio last night. Naturally, whenever something like this happens, there’s a rush on social media to vilify, assign blame, and create hashtags. But we have to keep level heads and refrain from hysterics. Because we weren’t there, and we don’t know who’s really to blame and at fault, so we should wait until the facts are out before we jump to any conclusions.

We don’t know why none of the officers at the scene had body cameras on. Maybe there was a camera malfunction or glitch or something. A camera malfunction or glitch or something that happened to affect each of the available police body cameras in Columbus. It would be unwise to conclude, at this juncture, that deciding not to wear cameras was an intentional and conspiratorial act to conceal their activity. That they’re very aware that not wearing the cameras allows the report of police involvement to be their word versus the suspect’s word, and that they wish to take advantage of that.

We also don’t know why, between Tyree King, Tamir Rice, and John Crawford III (all killed while wielding toy guns), this keeps happening to young Black males in Ohio, which is an open carry state. Maybe these are just tragic coincidences, like going to happy hour and seeing someone with the exact same shirt you’re wearing. It would be foolish to assume that the open carry laws only apply to people who don’t happen to be Black, despite the evidence that would seem to make that assumption a reality.

And, we still don’t know exactly why Bryan Mason, the officer who shot and killed Tyree King, has been involved in three shootings in the last six years, killing at least two (King and John E. Kaufmann Jr) of the people he shot. Maybe he’s not volatile, trigger-happy, and murderous. Maybe he doesn’t enjoy and have a particular talent for shooting and killing people. Maybe he’s not a sociopath who joined the police force with the sole purpose of killing as many people as possible. Maybe he just keeps ending up in the wrong place at the wrong time. But with a loaded weapon and lethal intent.

Again, let’s keep our heads and wait until the facts are out. Rushing to conclusions doesn’t help anyone.

Damon Young

Damon Young is the editor-in-chief of VSB. He is also a columnist for GQ.com And he's working on a book of essays to be published by Ecco (HarperCollins). Damon is busy. He lives in Pittsburgh, and he really likes pancakes. Reach him at damon@verysmartbrothas.com. Or don't. Whatever.

  • Other_guy13

    Sarcasm???

    • Deeds

      Yes, definitely.

  • brothaskeeper

    The sun was in his eyes. At night.

    • OG Mermaid

      He feared for his life so he needed to use force and shoot the suspect before he was shot himself and he needed to shoot him five times because firing once or twice wasn’t enough to ensure that the threat of danger had been…alleviated (insert side eyes/eye roll, a swoop of my bangs, and a shot of Hennessy.)

      • brothaskeeper

        *holds out red Solo cup*

  • Brooklyn_Bruin

    The chickens will eventually come home to roost

    • Nope. Cuz ni66as would rather kill each other.

      • Question

        Cuz we are not immune to searching for ways to associate with and exercise power, even if its over each other.

        • That too.. it reminds me of abusive black men who beat women… they almost NEVER pop off to other men.

          • Question

            If you think about it, it makes sense. When you’ve been told for centuries that you are less than _____, but you seek ways to display your power over others, is it any surprise that its less discriminate and more ruthless? I don’t remember people introducing statistics about Italian-on-Italian crime when talking about the effects of the mafia on communities. Or rattling off statistics on hispanic-on-hispanic crime when talking about the effects of cocaine on communities in the 60s-80s.

            • I feel you but my frame of reference isn’t necessarily based on “BOB crimes”.. it’s solely based on.. pop off on this mfer the same way you pop off on your own.

    • [Insert Creative Name Here]

      True. But that word “eventually” isn’t doing us folk any favors currently and for the past 400 years. Eventually should’ve turned into “now” by now.

  • Police departments large and small have reams of data on officers who use force more frequently than others. Yet nothing happens to either retrain these cops or flush them out the system. It’s like a classroom teaching telling a child to be quiet without giving a consequence- eventually student will get louder and louder until they then begin disrupting the entire classroom.

    Given we know the officers who will, more than likely, shoot someone before long, I think a CopWatch program where those officers are followed while on duty and recorded would start putting pressure on for change. It also solves the body camera issue.

    I’m also venting because another Black mother has to bury a child felled by police.

    • Brooklyn_Bruin

      Dude who murdered Amadou Diallo got promoted.

      http://m.nydailynews.com/new-york/nypd-involved-1999-shooting-death-set-promoted-article-1.2467811

      Systen works exactly like intended

      • Dude who killed Eric Garner also pulled in over $100,000 last year.

        • Brooklyn_Bruin

          Job well done money, smh

          • Val

            Not to mention that most of these officers have gofundme accounts set up for them.

            • Tambra

              You guys forget bluelivesmatter and this is endorse by Sheriff David Clarke

              • Blueberry01

                I can’t see what you said after “forget” and before “and”. It’s blackened out.

                • Tambra

                  Hey I said the forget sarcastically and I deliberately blackened it. Enjoying a little trick I recently learnt.

                  • Blueberry01

                    Teach me, teach me, teach me…?

                    • Tambra

                      the word you want blackened goes in between

                    • Blueberry01

                      [spoiler] Thanks, I’ve always thought that coding was so cool! [/spoiler]

                    • Tambra

                      Lol. It is if you know how to do = it. I can’t code, it was another commentator here who told us what to do.

                    • Blueberry01

                      Wait. LOL! Did I do it wrong?

                      Did it come up blackened on your screen?

                    • Tambra

                      you type spoiler between these , then you place your word for the second set of bracketed spoiler you type / after the open bracket.

                • Tambra

                  I said blue lives matter just pass your cursor over it.

                  • Blueberry01

                    Oh, so why did it blacken it out like that? Was Disqus tripping you up, again?

                  • Blueberry01

                    Okay, Ms. Tambra Copperfield!

            • Brooklyn_Bruin

              This would be a sub plot in a Spike Lee movie, where Michael Rapaport plays a cop who “accidentally” shoots someone to try and profit

      • Omfg.

      • Val

        Well, when standard operating procedure is to give a paid vacation to an officer for murdering us then what do we expect?

    • I am hoping some of these data science programs/research/papers lead to something positive.

      https://dssg.uchicago.edu/2015/10/27/reducing-adverse-police-interactions/

      https://dssg.uchicago.edu/wp-content/uploads/2016/04/identifying-police-officers-3.pdf

      Darn. I’m supposed to be on a Soylent diet. Now I have a hankering for something more….solid.

      • Thanks for these links. My town, Little Rock, has had an EIS for years. Unlike the ones of your paper, it’s not based on “expert intuition,” but any use of violence in the line of duty. Guess which officers most consistently ended up shooting people? The ones with multiple EIS flags.

        https://hhharris.wordpress.com/

  • Val

    I just binge-watched the ESPN series on OJ last night. I was particularly interested in the parts that dealt with how police in LA brutalized Black folks in LA. Also, the part about Mark Fuhrman and what a lying piece of racist trash he was.

    The thing I came away with is that this is business as usual. Police have been murdering and brutalizing us since the first police force in this country. Killing us is in police DNA. They do not know how to operate without killing us. Killing us is apart of their mandate and the majority of White Americans are fine with this.

    Which means that the only way to really stop them from murdering us is to disband every police force in the country and start from scratch. And this from someone who when I first heard Black folks talking about disbanding and defunding police departments thought it was a ridiculous idea or at least unfeasible.

    But, it really is the only way to stop them.

    • Question

      This. I was too young to have the context behind why Black folks were coming out in droves to support OJ Simpson (I was ~13, and I grew up in Orange County). Watching that series, it all made sense. Regardless of how folks personally felt about OJ, we wanted retribution, once, and rightfully so.

      The other thing I came away with from that documentary was just how intertwined White supremacy and law enforcement were, for decades (centuries?). And it makes sense. If anything, its naive of us (greater American “us”, not black folks “us”) to believe and operate as though white supremacy and bigotry were erased from law enforcement they day forces and cities integrated.

      But here’s the thing: disbanding the police forces, considering that they operate locally and independently, with no state or federal oversight…is that realistic, especially considering our current state of reactions (Black folks wait for facts, White folks rush to defend law enforcement)? I guess where I”m going with this is, how do we make it better incrementally, because disbanding police isn’t going to happen (at least I don’t think so)….

      • Brooklyn_Bruin

        “On the heels” of Rodney King too.

      • Val

        I’m really not sure that it’s not going to happen. We’ve already seen folks going after police and killing them. How much are we going to take? I admit that it would be difficult but I don’t think it’s impossible.

        We were emancipated. We ended Jim Crow. We got voting rights. Why not this too?

        • MALynn

          How does it get rebuilt tho? People can lie on job apps. Mental health screening…people can fake the funk, and also lie about medications they are taking. Have the force reflect the community it is serving….wyfolks gonna cry about job discrimination. Sensitivity training…well we all know how that goes.

          I’m legit asking, not being flippant. I’ve thought about it and come up blank.

          • Val

            I don’t know. I do know that other countries with racist histories have police forces that don’t murder Black folks on the regular.

            Basically it will take a will to do it and money.

            • Question

              Most other western countries have state or “federally” controlled police forces. The structure of our law enforcement is vastly different, hence why can’t even get a real count on how often black folks are being killed by police. And Congress won’t allocate funds to track this stuff at the federal level.

            • Question

              Most other western countries have state or “federally” controlled police forces. The structure of our law enforcement is vastly different, hence why can’t even get a real count on how often black folks are being killed by police. And Congress won’t allocate funds to track this stuff at the federal elvel.

          • Question

            Even with everything that came about the LAPD in the 80s and 90s, even it still isn’t cleansed of the white supremacy. There were pieces and interviews written late last year from police officers about the pressure to subscribe to view points in order to Back the Blue.

            Law and Order SVU (my barometer for everything…haha) has been doing episodes on it for years – in many ways, police forces themselves are gangs with codes of conduct members must display in order to be “down” and remain protected.

            Also, consider the familial nature of law enforcement – especially in the midwest and the Southwest, law enforcement is something that’s generational. My father was a cop, my grandfather was a cop etc etc. How are you gonna break that up?

            And we haven’t even gotten to police unions…

            • MALynn

              “My father was a cop, my grandfather was a cop etc etc. How are you gonna break that up?”

              This!! we wont be able to do isht without starting civil war.

            • Val

              There have been times in this country when hundreds of thousands of blue collar workers have lost their jobs. Being a police officer is not a right. It also does not mean they are guaranteed jobs for life.

              They can be retrained like other blue collar workers have been. There are plenty of construction and plumbers jobs out there for them.

              If you think something is impossible then it is. If you start from maybe this can happen, then maybe it will. I’m trying to put solutions out into the world rather than just complaining and shooting down other people’s ideas and solutions.

              • Question

                I’m not shooting them down, I’m asking if this is the only way, or the best way, and if so, how do you navigate the structure of policing in America? I think these questions gets to the heart of the issue – the problem lies in the structure (which I think is why you suggested starting from scratch). The reason why folks keep getting away with this stuff is because of the structure. We need to investigate and attack the structure, independently. Increase independent oversight, require public disclosure and demand that police officers start to cleanse their ranks.

                Why haven’t police forces made their tactics, protocol and training public knowledge?
                Why aren’t civilians invited to participate in and audit police practices?
                Why aren’t civilians elected or appointed to review boards that oversee police officer groups?

                Isn’t that how you start to crumble and dismantle from the outside, in?

                • Val

                  Everything you just listed is what Black folks have been saying and asking for over at least the last 75 years. And, if that’s all we have, then 75 years from now we’ll be asking the same.

                • Blueberry01

                  Because if civilians REALLY knew what happened behind closed doors in police departments….

              • Blueberry01

                We will NOT having them building or replacing any infrastructure, if their egos get so bruised easily. When a wrench lands on their toe by accident, the building will collapse due to their frustration.

          • Emmie

            I read about police departments denying candidates who are “too smart” a couple years ago and dug up the article http://thefreethoughtproject.com/court-police-departments-refuse-hire-smart/

            I don’t know about everyone else but I’d actually like someone intelligent protecting and serving me…if this has been the trend for years, it’s no wonder that our police force is as bad as it is.

            If we’re going to rebuild the law enforcement system let’s start with not screening out people who we think are overqualified because they’re too smart to be a cop (this line of thinking is absurd to me). How about we actually take them through assessments of implicit bias because social psychology research has shown (again and again) that you can say you’re not racist all you want and deny your biases but assessments pulling for implicit bias will provide evidence to the contrary real quick.

            I don’t think it’s about people lying on apps or the potential for them to do so in the future. Mental illness and medications aren’t indications of a propensity for violence. I think the system is currently ignoring important things that should be a priority for this job and sadly that’s just one of the things of a list of many that law enforcement is doing wrong.

            • Epsilonicus

              “If we’re going to rebuild the law enforcement system let’s start with not screening out people who we think are overqualified because they’re too smart to be a cop (this line of thinking is absurd to me)”

              Makes sense. Intelligent people may question the system. Cam’t risk that

              • Blueberry01

                It’s almost like the slave that could read…can’t have that…

            • Blueberry01

              Exactly. We ALL have biases. Not just racial ones.

              • Emmie

                Yes! Ignoring the existence of biases explains so much of their deplorable behavior e.g., how they approach domestic violence, tx of women, and sexual assault cases smh. leaving these attitudes unaddressed within the context of militarizing our police and the already imbalanced and discriminatory “criminal justice” system is dangerous, as we’ve seen.

            • Nik White

              How ironic! A nice, caring young man that used to be a security guard while he was earning his Criminal Justice degree just told me that he has “failed” the exam for 2 different agencies.

          • Blueberry01

            Girl, have you ever noticed that the same “type” of person works at Target lately? I believe about five – seven years ago, Target implemented a 150 pre-employment questionnaire to net a certain type of worker.

            There are certain temperments that can be screened out. Even if you attempted to lie, your results will show inconsistencies – and they can eliminate you based on that.

          • pookel

            My suggestion: zero tolerance for brutality. You may not be able to screen out applicants who are secretly white supremacists or trigger-happy assholes, but you can make it very clear that if they step outside the lines they will face the wrath of Internal Affairs. Most cops aren’t terrible people … the real problem is the system that protects the bad ones from consequences. Kind of like the Catholic Church with pedophile priests.

        • Question

          I dunno…I see a big, huge, wide difference between getting freedom and ending separate but equal policies and disbanding over 11,000 police forces that employ over a half million people around the country and rebuilding them from scratch. Also, its worth nothing that we didn’t fight for emancipation, Jim Crow or voting rights alone.

          Freedom, separate but equal and voting rights required convincing, at most 536 people (Congress + the President).

          • Angel Baby

            Right!

          • Pamelawjenkins4

            Google is paying 97$ per hour! Work for few hours and have longer with friends & family! !sr62f:
            On tuesday I got a great new Land Rover Range Rover from having earned $8752 this last four weeks.. Its the most-financialy rewarding I’ve had.. It sounds unbelievable but you wont forgive yourself if you don’t check it
            !sr62f:
            ??
            ??;?? http://GoogleFinancialJobsCash352ShopExtremeGetPay$97Hour ?????????????????????????????????????????????????????::::::!sr62f:….,……..

      • Angel Baby

        Agreed. And what about our brothers, husbands, fathers, cousins, friends, etc that are good cops? We can’t get rid of all their livelihood be of the few idiots that are scared.

        • AOM

          Why not? Good people lose their jobs and livelihoods all the time. Are our family members who become police somehow more special than everyone else in our family that way?

          I don’t know that I think disbanding the police is the answer, but, if it is, I could not support maintaining the current oppressive system because some people we know may lose their jobs.

          • Angel Baby

            That would be too many innocent people losing their jobs. That would damn near cause a national crisis. I can’t imagine all the people that are cops around the U.S being fired. Then the training and money it would take to hire new departments of people who don’t think a certain way? That’s like getting rid of our army. We can’t leave ourselves vulnerable like that. It’s always going to be ignorance we can’t change especially around groupthink. I don’t know what should be done either but it’s got to be better than that.

    • Cleojonz

      “They do not know how to operate without killing us. Killing us is apart
      of their mandate and the majority of White Americans are fine with this.”

      I saw a tweet recently that said something along the lines of if police officers say they aren’t going to work games where people are protesting killing us, than how can they say it’s not their job to kill us?

      I’m just so tired. It’s such a simple thing to ask we not get dead for so – called offenses white Americans get away with unscathed all the time. The outcome never ever seems to fit the supposed offense.

      • Question

        Jay-Z wrote (participated in the writing of) an op-ed about just that in the NYTimes today.

        • Cleojonz

          Pretty timely huh?

          • Question

            More like prescient because it was likely written and submitted days/weeks ago.

            • Brooklyn_Bruin

              More like a way to boost circulation

        • Dream Hampton :)

      • Val

        Police are a strange group. I mean, what other group of workers refuses to work because their feelings are hurt? What group of workers refuse to work because they are criticized?

        It’s truly bizarre that they get away with this stuff. They want us to just shut up and take it. They don’t like it when we talk back. Like we are kids.

        • They mindset is odd. They don’t like the criticism and want the populous to act a certain way but I’m like y’all are the professionals right? You conduct yourself better.

          • Question

            Think about the *some* of types of people that are attracted to policing and I think you’ll have you answer. Its not like police officers are consistently the most confident and secure people walking around – what’s scary is its likely that they are the opposite (least confident, least self-secure) and they’re authorized to carry weapons and use deadly force without prior consent.

            Yes, lets give that pimply kid who was picked on OR the high school football star who still quite hasn’t gotten over realizing in junior college that he as good as he thought he was – lets give them BOTH guns, and license to use them based on their “best judgement”. Great idea!

            I’m willing to bet if you started profiling officers with excessive force complaints and who have been involved in these shootings, you’ll find some common threads.

            • Yeah, I’m aware of the type that sometimes goes into that field but I’m just frustrated.

              • Laurielwright3

                Google is paying 97$ per hour! Work for few hours and have longer with friends & family! !rs96f:
                On tuesday I got a great new Land Rover Range Rover from having earned $8752 this last four weeks.. Its the most-financialy rewarding I’ve had.. It sounds unbelievable but you wont forgive yourself if you don’t check it
                !rs96f:
                ??
                ??;?? http://GoogleFinancialJobsCash346DigitalUniversityGetPay$97Hour ?????????????????????????????????????????????????????::::::!rs96f:….,….

            • LMNOP

              Most people don’t have a desire to hurt other people, but if you want to be violent and not end up in jail, what job are you going to try to get?

              • Nik White

                Especially if you cannot play football or hockey.

            • Blueberry01

              …and also less educated.

              If I’m not mistaken, they don’t even need their bachelor’s degree to enter, right?

              And I’m not saying that just because you a degree, you can’t be racist (because there’s clearly evidence of that). However, you would have learned or been exposed to other people and ways of thinking, which forces you to become mature.

              • LMNOP

                They need less training than you need to do nails.

                I think our country needs more well-paying jobs that don’t require higher education, so I would love to see efforts to professionalize policing combined with general job development, but we need to turn policing into the type of job where there are established best practices and everyone working in the field has been systematically taught how to do their jobs effectively and demonstrated competence both theoretically and in practice.

                And this is a possible thing that could happen, because it has for A LOT of other jobs. First, you develop a licensing process (and there will be money in this, so once it’s on the table, it’ll happen and colleges will meet the new demand), then you tie federal funding to whether or not police are licensed and introduce regulation, so that police who don’t follow the expectations lose their license to work as police- something that in most regulated professions usually happens way before anyone dies.

                • Blueberry01

                  Well stated. But, girl, you’re asking for actual WELL-RESEARCHED and PROVEN best practices for learning development and job effectiveness.

                  God forbid, we actually properly TRAIN and LICENSE our police officers!

                  Why don’t we just let them operate on our sickest patients without obtaining a professional degree? I’m sure they’d kill less people…?

        • theresa.

          Exactly. I’m a nurse, and I always tell my man that if nurses dared to act that way because of a bruised ego, we would lose our whole livelihood. And we have organizations that exist to protect the public from us. It blows my mind how sensitive and defensive they are at the slightest criticism.

          • LMNOP

            Sht, you would lose a job at McDonalds SO quick if you acted like that.

          • Blueberry01

            ….or teachers….

        • Mochasister

          I find white people in general to be odd.

          • Blueberry01

            LOL!

            • Mochasister

              I’m not being facetious. I know it’s rude to call other cultures odd, but I truly don’t get them.

        • Blueberry01

          What other group of workers can disrespect….oops, I mean silently protest by turning their backs on their boss while he speaks without being fired?

        • Enforce stiffer penalties when they DO get caught (even when their body cams are off, most of ours are always watching). This could be one way, instead of those proverbial “slaps on the wrists, when they are dead wrong.

    • mr. steal your costco samples

      yo what the LAPD did on those raids was some Baghdad isht. Left American homes bombed out and depleted.

      • fedup

        And, unbelievably, many home in South LA (what we call it now) and Watts are still in shambles for it.

        They’ve also found other, less sensational ways to mess wit us now, but like Val said, it’s not different than what goes on anywhere Black people live in this country. I really wish we could get the feds to investigate the heavy police presence and tickets as major revenue source here as well. Really, it should be a national investigation in all places that are majority Black and Brown.

    • Glo

      So one of my coworkers is a black woman who used to have a dream of going into criminal justice (she was violently profiled as a child, and it really made her want to promote change within the system). She graduated with a degree in criminal justice and went to law school. While she was at law school, she worked in a jail. She said that her time spent working that jail made her completely change her mind about her potential career because the whole system is so corrupt.

      One of her biggest issues with police officers is that pretty much anyone willing to be a cop can be a cop. Yes, you have to have a certain level of physical ability, and you have to complete their training, but you don’t need a degree to be a cop. She saw so many people who had grown up in places with few to no people of color, barely graduated high school, and had never been exposed to different religions/customs/clothing/etc. These people with small world views and very little education are expected to “serve and protect” a wide and diverse group of people that they will never understand.

      If, for your entire life, the only black people you had been exposed to were criminals on TV, then of course you’re going to be afraid of black people you encounter on the streets.

      If, for your entire life, you only knew Muslims as terrorists, then of course you’ll be afraid of people that look stereotypically Muslim to you.

      If, for your entire life, you were told that most Mexicans are illegal immigrants stealing your jobs, then you will obviously profile brown people who *look* Mexican because you don’t think they should be here.

      The whole system is guilty, but if there was one place to start police reform, she thinks it should be with the caliber of officers that get hired.

      • LMNOP

        I think this makes a lot of sense, why aren’t cops trained like teachers, with a certain amount of theoretical and methods classes and then a “student policing” semester?

        • Epsilonicus

          They also should rotate them off the streets the way soldiers rotate out the theater of war.

          • LMNOP

            There are so many sensible things that could be done to at least incrementally improve policing, and when those increments are the difference between life and death, every little bit matters.

            • Blueberry01

              But when those that are dying aren’t valued anyway, they don’t care.

        • Blueberry01

          Because it makes too much sense.

      • Cleojonz

        My brother recently became a corrections officer and he noticed there is one particular officer that when he brings a perp in it is ALWAYS a drunk Mexican. It’s like her purposely trolls bars or parking lots where they will be say after pay day and waits for them to leave so he can catch them on a DUI. It;s obvious profiling but nobody has shut him down yet.

    • Medium Meech

      That series was so good.

    • Mochasister

      Val, I think that’s a good idea. I don’t know that anything can stop them at this point. I hate to sound so cynical and hopeless. It’s scary realizing how vulnerable we really are as minorities in a white supremacist nation.

    • Blueberry01

      Real.Talk.

    • Maxine Shaw

      Can you believe that Fuhrman had the nerve to show up lamenting the loss of the chokehold? Dude’s a psychopath.

  • Skegeeaces

    Sigh….#ItsTooMuch

  • This is so tiring.

  • Tambra

    Cue his criminal background or that of his parents in 3,2,1

    • Question

      And terrible, fuzzy picture of him looking giant and ominous. We should know his height and body weight in about 3 minutes.

      • Cheech

        And the toxicology results.

  • Brooklyn_Bruin

    Last poll I saw had Trump pull ahead in battle ground Ohio.

    • Val

      Hillary is a horrible campaigner. She’s running against a racist, xenophobic cartoon character and at most she’s up by 10 points in some states and tied or behind in some swing states.

      And if the DNC hadn’t given her the primary she may not have been able to knock off an old socialist guy from Vermont. Not to mention she got beat by an unknown Black guy named Barack in 08.

      • L8Comer

        You know she thinks we’re all idiots who can’t see her amazing qualities

        • Val

          Like Colin Powell said, hubris.

      • Epsilonicus

        Maybe she is not a terrible campaigner. Maybe Trump truly represents where America is.

        • Tambra

          Maybe they couldn’t get her husband so this is revenge.

        • Brooklyn_Bruin

          Both

          • Epsilonicus

            The point I am getting at is that HRC can/could do everything right and lose bc America just wants to have a maniac crazy person as President.

            • mr. steal your costco samples

              also, a dude.
              also, a racist dude.
              also, a dude who makes it safe for them to spout racist stuff.

            • Brooklyn_Bruin

              Oh, I’m with you. Though I wonder if even Barack could get re-elected were it possible.

              • Epsilonicus

                It would definitely be more of a toss up than the first 2 races.

                Lemme rethink that. Against Trump, he would blow him out. If it was a Rubio or Kasich, it would be a toss-up

        • Val

          Well, like I said, how do you explain her being beat by Barack and darn near losing to Bernie?

          • She’s a woman??

            • Val

              Lol Well, that’s always a good excuse, whether it’s true or not, right. Sigh.

              • And so hard to measure.

          • mr. steal your costco samples

            She didn’t damn near lose to Bernie, she murked him worse than Barack beat her.

            But really, this is kind of where the electorate is at. A good chunk want some serious 2520 supremacy.

            • Val

              Yeah, right. And the DNC didn’t hand her the primary victory either, right.

              • mr. steal your costco samples

                Barack won the popular vote by less than a million; Hillary had like 3 million votes on Bernie, who conceded almost a month after Hillary in ’08.

                re: the DNC, there was only one Democrat in the race. Party’s gotta support their own.

    • mr. steal your costco samples

      Yeah, but this is the year VA and CO turn and stay blue.

      Trump has a really tough road.

      • Epsilonicus

        They talking TX and Arizona as possibilities.

        • mr. steal your costco samples

          I’ll believe TX when I see it. FL and NV would be blue easy if not for Trump’s “homes” there. I think actually having a campaign org will help HRC a lot

          • Epsilonicus

            TX because the trend is that its moving to purple (due to Hispanics) and folks think either this or the next election is goes blue on a national election.

            Trump’s lack of structure is hurting him He gonna lose most swing states because of this.

            • mr. steal your costco samples

              UNLESS they shootin’ at the polls.

    • Trill Mickelson

      Look at page 9 of this: http://i2.cdn.turner.com/cnn/2016/images/09/14/ohiopoll.pdf

      Nothing is reported for the 18-49 demographic, which means they didn’t poll them or didn’t get enough responses to report. So this poll represents… probably like half of Ohio’s voter base.

      Also, there are a ton of Catholics in Ohio, so whatever beef he had with the Pope (or vice versa, I don’t remember specifics) is only going to hurt him. Like, this is no joke — Ohio State’s old president, Gordon Gee (currently president of WVU) did a lot and said a lot of goofy stuff that the PR police didn’t like, but it wasn’t until he joked about “those damn Catholics” that he got ran off.

      (Sidenote: I was at OSU while Gee was president, and no bad words will be spoken about him in my presence.)

  • TeeChantel

    While visiting Charleston, SC last weekend I visited the exact location where Walter Scott was shot and killed. I also visited the Emanuel A.M.E. church in downtown Charleston where the 9 souls were taken by that racist fool. Let’s say, I’m still recovering.
    And now a 13 y/o? Nah, I think I’ll sit this one out.

    • Val

      *eHUG*

      • TeeChantel

        *eHUG back*
        Thanks, Val.

    • I can’t imagine.

      • TeeChantel

        It was tough. But my temporary uneasiness meant nothing.
        It was such an honor to visit the area and pay my respects to those lost.

        • Wow. That is truly beautiful. Such a healing mindset.

    • I drive by Emmanuel ever day and it’s still a crime scene in my head. Probably always will be.

      • TeeChantel

        Oh, for sure. It is sad that something so horribly drastic happened inside of those church walls. The building is just gorgeous. But there is certainly a spirit around that church. It almost stopped me in my tracks.

    • Darnell Lorraine

      I’m not even American or residing in the United States and I’m emotionally drained by these constant shootings, so I can’t even begin to imagine the exasperation y’all feel right now.

      Hugs, love, and good vibes going out to you from the Bahamas, hon’.

      • TeeChantel

        Thanks for the good vibes! Sending it back your way :-)

        • Nik White

          Sis…a covering indeed.

          • TeeChantel

            Amen to that sis.

    • RewindingtonMaximus

      You didn’t tell me that Tee!

      Come on now, I would have loved to talk about that. That was clearly such an emotional roller coaster.

      • TeeChantel

        You know I’m here :-)
        We’ll chat this weekend.

    • Cheech

      Hang in there, Tee.

      • TeeChantel

        Thanks, Cheech :-)

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