Yeah, man. They bought it hook, line, and sinker. It cracks me up too.
Aside from the obvious, the 2008 public ascension of the Obama family had numerous peripheral effects on our culture, including (but not limited to)….
1. We all joked about this at the time, but you can make the argument now that Barack Obama did actually bring light-skinned men “back in style.” Perhaps it’s just coincidence, but at this moment the most popular young rapper, most popular young black entertainer, and most popular young black athlete all easily pass the paper bag test. Hmm.
2. We assumed that seeing the Obama family in the White House would have a panoramic effect on dating and relationships in the black community. It did, but just not in the way we expected it to, as “Wait a second, if Michelle found Barack, how come the rest of you educated black chicks can’t find any men?” became the dominant conversation of the past three years.
While he didn’t exactly sign any bills or pass any laws to make sure that light-skinned black men would no longer be oppressed, Obama’s status as a symbol, a cultural icon is so powerful that he’s able to affect change by just existing.
Jay-Z, the most famous new father on Earth, obviously doesn’t have the same cultural cache as the president, but he’s extremely influential nonetheless. So influential, in fact, that there’s been a burgeoning conversation that Jay’s apparent love for Beyonce and his new daughter might possibly have some peripheral effect on black males everywhere, who’d hopefully stop (collectively) dicking around and finally realize how cool it is to be a loving husband and doting father.
This conversation crescendoed yesterday with the release of “Glory” — a song devoted to his infant daughter and featuring his infant daughter. Saccharin? Sure, but if Google and the blogosphere are any indications, it definitely helped to cement Jay-Z’s new status as a certified positive relationship and marriage role model…a sentiment that’s about as far from the f*cking truth as you can get.
Again, Jay-Z does appear to be in a very happy and healthy relationship, and that’s commendable and enviable. But calling the Jigga Man a relationship role model is like lauding the Nazis for turning Germany’s economy around; you can’t completely eschew the means just so you can lavish praise on the end. In Jay-Z’s case, his super duper awesome marriage is a direct result of the decades of dirt he did to get where he is now.
But, forget about that for a sec. Let’s say that Jay-Z is actually a relationship and marriage role model. Since he’s a role model, a young man would be wise to attempt to follow in his footsteps. In order to do this, the young man would have to do each of the following things:
Spend his late teens and early 20′s amassing a small fortune while being a malignant cancer to his community.
Use the money accumulated by being a cancer to fund a new business venture.
Amass an even larger fortune by unapologetically outlining, in detail, everything he did while he was being a malignant cancer to his community. Do this for 15 years.
Sleep with perhaps hundreds of different women, and amass more of a fortune by unapologetically outlining, in detail, every possible way to diss, demean, degrade, and just generally sh*t on the women he was able to sleep with. Do this for 15 years, too.
Use status and fortune obtained by A) being a cancer, B) outlining exactly how he was a cancer, C) sh*tting on women, and D) outlining exactly how he sh*t on women to bag one of the most sought after women on the planet. Marry said woman.
Ironically, most of the statements I’ve heard about Jay-Z being a relationship role model have come from women.
Why is this ironic? Well, they’re right. Jay-Z already is a role model…for all the men who want to be able to do as much dirt as they can in their 20′s and 30′s and still be able to pull a young hot chick when they’re a decade away from AARP and finally ready to settle down.
These women fail to realize that they’re indirectly praising and promoting the type of behavior they abhor. While it’s true that Jay-Z probably does genuinely love and adore his wife, men like that can only consider “loving” after they’ve made monsters out of dozens of women. Basically, his life is the blueprint for how to be a successful diva dude.
I imagine the tone of this post makes it seem like I’m anti-Jay-Z, and that’s totally not true. I think he’s many positive things. The greatest rapper of all-time. A savvy businessman. An instinctual opportunist. A cultural icon. A real life Horatio Alger tale. A (seemingly) great husband and father.
But, as Panama’s piece last week about Common reminds us, we have to be careful with assigning certain titles to people who don’t deserve or even want them. And, regarding Jay-Z’s new status as the marriage and relationship role model for young black men, be careful what you wish for because it just might happen.
—Damon Young (aka “The Champ”)
I think you’re wrong to assume people have to follow a role models entire life cycle. But for men who didn’t have it all figured out from jump are at least shown they can turn things around. Before the kid, Jay was an example in that way. Shoot for the stars and sh*t.
I agree totally Liz… Jay is doing that and the example he is showing young brothas (in the context of being married and committed to his relationship etc.) should be commended. We all have a past….Granted, now some may not have made the best choices coming up… but he is trying to make it better by not having 20 kids by 20 different women and showing folk that what he is doing IS possible etc… So many in our generation really feel like its just NOT. I feel like if he did have those 20 kids folk would be talking about how negative he is and not a role model too… negros can’t win I guess…
Does he already have a kid? Or was I misled by the blogs?
I’ve heard rumors too…but I don’t know. So, I assume no…
No its true he does! He has like a 10 yr old son frum a video hoe in dominacan republic. The poor kid is his spitting image. Allegedly he gave the mom a 1-time payoff of a million dollars but wants nothing to do wit the child. Peice of shit……….
Yeah, I also heard this rumor. If it is true, then it is very sad for the kid. I can’t imagine having a celebrity father who won’t acknowledge you (forget about financially… that can be done in secret) because you’d wreck his image. I seriously hope it ain’t true because it’s sad all around.
1. Let’s not call other women hoes. It hard but we can try to respect each other.
2. She’s Trini.
3. This article says the man who initially broke the story retracted it. He’s not a reliable source because it’s obvious he put Shanelle’s business out there to wreck her and to make money.
4. Take a look at the photos in the article: http://urbanislandz.com/2011/09/19/man-retracts-jay-z-love-child-with-trinidadian-model-shenelle-scott-story/
This is what happens when women and men have a child and there is no love involved. How many times do we as women have to be told that having a man’s baby will not keep him in your arms.
This is why a song wasn’t written about that little boy. I wish him all the joy and love in the world regardless.
I heard that rumor too. So Blue Ivy is worth the hype, but that kid isn’t? smh how wrong.
Y’all keep saying “rumor” and then further argue it like its true. It’s a rumor which means it isn’t true until confirmed by the person accused. He’s denied being the father of that kid.
Either way, this article has some validity. It fits the “good girls like bad guys with the hope that they become good guys” mantra. Most bad guys stay bad, Jay grew up. And what helped him grow up was money.
I also doubt a woman you meets a reformed or current bad guy will wait over five years for them to get married while they separately handle their careers.
They give hope on some levels, but are not a handbook for Black relationships.
I’m not arguing like it’s true. I’m implying that IF it is true, then that is messed up. IF it is true, then why did he not make a big deal about that child? IF IF IF it’s true. IF being a conditional.
I really wish I could agree bc I usually do with the other articles written but I can’t. Im far from a Jay fan but I think this was an unnecessary bash and incorrect on the contextual basis that you’re disregarding the man he is today bc of the man he was yesterday. I could only agree with the following statement “While he didn’t exactly sign any bills or pass any laws to make sure that light-skinned black men would no longer be oppressed, Obama’s status as a symbol, a cultural icon is so powerful that he’s able to affect change by just existing.”…lol even most of the statements about Obama seemed off. This was a definite MISS for me.
Should Jay Z be commended for doing what he’s supposed to do? Work, take care of his family, love his wife and his new baby?
Are we that disconnected — are responsible Black men extinct that we even that Jay Z needs praise? Do we praise the men in our lives for doing the same damn thing?
Why should young and older Black men want to get married because JayZ is doing it, or want to have a family because he is?
Aren’t marriage and a family something you do because it is what you want for yourself?
“Should Jay Z be commended for doing what he’s supposed to do?”
Yes. He should. By extension hopefully those who are not will take notice. Doing your job and praise are not mutually exclusive. Otherwise why have a mother’s or father’s day or veterans day or memorial day.
Mother’s Day and Father’s Day is for the *children* to praise their parents.
I’m with Chris Rock on grown men and women not needing praise for doing what they are supposed to do.
Again, I ask, then what is the purpose for mother’s day? What is the purpose for father’s day. The question wasn’t if people needed it, it was a question of should we do it. And we as a culture already do it. So why not now? Why is this time the exception?
I agree, we shouldn’t get praise for doing what we are supposed to do.And how do we know he is an excellent father let alone a good one????.. Ignoring the alleged. She was just born, So he made a song….. OKAY
We don’t owe JayZ anything. Children, though, should appreciate their parents, love them and honor them.
And mind you, not all of us were praising him in the first place. So why would we start doing it?
A grown man doesn’t need praise from other grown people for doing what he is supposed to do as a man.
Again, it’s not about “needing” praise. Whether kids appreciate their parents or not, parents don’t require praise or recognition for doing their job (it’s essentially what you are arguing about Jay-Z).
If you meant to suggest that mother’s day and father’s day is simply a recognition by the children of their parents, from my perspective, that’s inaccurate. It is a recognition of parenthood, and it can (and does) come from all sorts of family members and friends (at least in my experience). If this praise is acceptable, why is it objectionable to apply it to Jay-Z? I do not see that they are much different than one another.
I theorize that oftentimes people let context and/or personalities color their views on topics such that they find themselves objecting to things that they actually agree with.
I’m with DQ on this one. Didn’t we all have the convo about how black people with the best means to provide for their kids are the main ones NOT having kids these days. Nothing wrong with him waiting till he was ready (unless he really did sweep his first one under the rug. That’s wrong no matter how you look at it)
Yea, I think everyone should be commended for doing what they are supposed to do. Positive reinforcement is a beautiful thing.
I remember being told countless times that I wouldn’t receive commendations for doing what was expected of me, and all that did was make me feel like all of my efforts went unappreciated.
Telling someone they don’t get props for being the best person they can be… where is the love?
+1
+2- If you do things the right way and people stay quiet (cause that’s what you should’ve done). Then you do things the wrong way and people run their mouths incessantly about what you should’ve done, then that means the only time ppl are speaking is when they’re complaining/highlighting something negative. Not a world I’d like to inhabit
Agreed, but I’m not praising Jay for anything just because I never cared for him anyway. Besides the baby not being a week old. Let’s see some report cards first.
Well, yes. Aren’t other people praised for being good husbands/fathers, even though they’re supposed to? If so, why shouldn’t Jay-Z get said praise as well? Every good husband/father should get that praise, because it’s not something to take for granted.
I think you people are jumping the gun on this one. There is no evidence available regarding the type of husband and father he is. Only the wife knows the type of husband she has. In this case, these two people are rarely in the same hemisphere, we don’t even know if they can even stand to be around each other. They haven’t really had the chance. Doesn’t take much time to make a baby. As for being a good father, she is less than a week old. Everything is great when it is new. Time will tell. Regarding the other child, none of your business.
P-R-E-A-C-H! Men and women should not pat themselves on the back for raising their children. It’s your duty as a parent.
Uh, why are we giving this ninja credit for sh*t he’s SUPPOSED to do? Do you get extra brownie points for loving your wife and child? Cause if so, that’s really f*cked up.
+1
+2!
+3
“…but he is trying to make it better by not having 20 kids by 20 different women and showing folk that what he is doing IS possible etc…”
I firmly disagree with this statement! Not havin kids (regardless the number) says nothing about your character. Especially if your character is screwin any pretty, willing thing with a vagina. For all we know, he’s sponsored 20 abortions with 15 different women…and I’m more inclined to believe that than his luck
“I think you’re wrong to assume people have to follow a role models entire life cycle. ”
you do if the past is directly connected to your status in the present.
Negative. Everyone has a unique life experience and what Jay did, the context in which he did and and other things are not and will not be the same for a Jerome working at Wells Fargo as a branch manager. Eventually Jerome will run out of options because he’s a branch manager at Wells Fargo, not a multi-millionaire rapper with women who would sell their firstborns for a taste of the type of life he can provide.
I’m not saying a man couldn’t follow directly in Jay’s footsteps…I’m just saying the result WILL vary dramatically.
Everyone has a unique life experience and what Jay did, the context in which he did and and other things are not and will not be the same for a Jerome working at Wells Fargo as a branch manager. Eventually Jerome will run out of options because he’s a branch manager at Wells Fargo, not a multi-millionaire rapper with women who would sell their firstborns for a taste of the type of life he can provide.
hmmm. this jerome dude may not be able to follow jigga’s footsteps on the same level, but i know tons of 9 to 5 dudes whose dream is to d*ck around until they’re 40-45, and then find some 24 year old to marry. and, to be honest, more are able to pull this off than you probably think.
agreed Champ. I think one of the reasons women are so apt to throw kudos at men doing exactly what they were put on earth to do is because somewhere along the way, we began to adopt our fantasy of how a man will grow out of certain behaviors (see Emily “Love and Hip Hop”) as opposed to seeking men that have made a positive decision about who they want to be and are actively living their decision. Irresponsible lifestyle choices create issues. I’m not saying a man shouldn’t have the opportunity to grow up and make good on some of his prior bad decisions, I’m just saying don’t do it on my time.
More often than not, men are celebrated for retreating from a whorish past. Usually, by women. Commonly, as you stated, they do end up in ideal relationships proving yet again that even in the midst of a lifetime of treachery, there is still redemption.
We began to adopt our fantasy of how a man will grow out of certain behaviors (see Emily “Love and Hip Hop”) as opposed to seeking men that have made a positive decision about who they want to be and are actively living their decision. Irresponsible lifestyle choices create issues.
THIS! I was just thinking this when someone stated up thread that “everyone has a past” um, no. We all don’t have skeletons in our closet and I don’t think it is naive or unrealistic to expect a future life partner to have made responsible, logical choices in life. I think Dr. J at SBM said it best several months during a post about people’s dating histories. To paraphrase what he said, people tend forget that this whole experience is cumulative, and I am looking at how you’ve conducted your entire life.
@TrackStar, All too true. I agree with everything you said up there. Especially:
“We all don’t have skeletons in our closet and I don’t think it is naive or unrealistic to expect a future life partner to have made responsible, logical choices in life.”
You articulated what I was also thinking while reading through the comments and the post.
exactly.
“we began to adopt our fantasy of how a man will grow out of certain behaviors (see Emily “Love and Hip Hop”) as opposed to seeking men that have made a positive decision about who they want to be and are actively living their decision.”
yes. it’s deceptive. not all men grow out of it, and there are those who seem to have grown out of it but are actually still doing it. just that they chose “simple” girls. Beyonce ain’t exactly the sharpest tool in the shed.
Champ u sound like u hating. Actually experienced ppl make the best spouses because they got it out of their system. Jay been there, done that, got the tshirt. Time 2 settle down. He prolly dealt wit 1000 bitches. Dat shit is tiring! He needs 2 send george clooneysold azz the memo too.
LOL, it’s not hate. All I’m saying is people (and by “people” i mean “woman”) need to be careful about the type of behavior they’re co-signing.
” All I’m saying is people (and by “people” i mean “woman”) need to be careful about the type of behavior they’re co-signing.”
Exactly! And this sentiment is a recurring theme in soooo many discussions about dating/relationships. I spent most of my time this evening reading the post about the Diva Dude (missed it the first time around) and noticed that half the female commenters were telling horror stories and denouncing diva dudes, but at the same time talking about how they were drawn to the pretty/metro-sexual type. I’m thinkin “so y u complaining, that comes with the territory”. A lot of those dudes aren’t even naturally pretty boy types, they do it because they see how often these dudes get laid (even with half of the chicks that complain about their diva antics). I personally don’t have much respect for these guys, but at least I now understand why they act this way. I was perplexed about what good they expected to come from this behavior/image at first, but after hearing so many women talk about how this type of moodle (man poodle) was desirable ( if only he paid for dates) I at least see why dudes embarass themselves by trying to be “one of those guys”. Ppl can’t shun something on one hand and co-sign it on the other, that just creates un-natural chaos (see 2012 dating scene in most cities)
+1
Problem is many men will not have Jay Z’s life.
And the dude working at Wells Fargo can move up the ranks or advance to a better job.
Has Jay Z really learned from his life? If we were to look at his past to his present, we’d have to see if he actually learned from his life or has been maintaining his perspective of women, including the ones he happens to be with.
JayZ has a daughter now to give him a new perspective on how those views of women will affect his daughter. No amount of money in the world can give a girl self-esteem. She is still gonna be watching what her dad raps, says and does while figuring out who she is.
well put. i for one was not a fan of jay z. and i’ll admit it. i find it hard to be a fan of someone whose music helped set black women back 50 years. and the fact that he got the most ‘eligible’ black woman out there only shows that our society is really messed up. really
Great response majo.
“I think you’re wrong to assume people have to follow a role models entire life cycle. ”
I think it depends on the individual.
People that are seeking the keys to success with no clear path of how to get there will eventually want to know “how did they make it? What was their blueprint for success?” So in this instance, their life cycle does become important .
But if people are simply looking for inspiration beyond the blueprint, then maybe the life cycle isn’t as important. If simply seeing a successful black man is inspiring enough for others to create their own path, then their background won’t matter.
“Like I told you, ‘Sell drugs.’ No, Hov did that, so hopefully you don’t have to go through that.”
I think your premise is a little faulty. One can admire Jigga’s character arc and strive to reach where he is now, relationally, without having to re-create that arc in their own lives. And, realistically, most dudes DO try to d*ck down just about every chick in their youth, then find the hottest chick they can pull and wife her up. So, it’s not out of the realm of possibility that someone couold just want to end up where he is at the end, without having to go through all the rest.
“I think you’re wrong to assume people have to follow a role models entire life cycle. ”
Have to agree. Parents right now are telling their kids to be like Obama, kids themselves are looking at Obama as a role model. Does that mean that they also need to emulate his drug use as a youth? Do they also need to follow lack of focus on academics as a youth or his smoking habit?
No.
For the record, just based on Champs past posts, I know he would be as ecstatic as I would be if Jay-Z inspired more men to be fathers, so it isn’t shade. And I am of the school of thought that “ends do not always justify means, how you get to your destination DOES matter”. But here I choose to take the good that’s available.
If people start wanting to be a loving fathers because Jay-Z appears to be, more power to the whole situation. We all win.
No, they don’t have to emulate his drug use. But by the same token, he is an example for them that if they decide to go after drugs, it could still turn out ok. So maybe drugs aren’t so bad.
*slowclaps*
I guess there are a number of false conclusions they could draw about Obama’s life. They could also conclude that to truly make it they need to be born from an interracial couple.
False conclusions aside, we would not be asking kids to emulate his evolution, we would be asking them to emulate the end result.
Who the hell is bringing this light skinned, paper bag shit into the realm of what it means to have a successful relationship/marriage or whatever. If the president has a great relationship, you can best believe that it is not because he is light or that his wife is darker, period. If Jay-Z and his wife have a great relationship, once again, you can believe that it is not because one is lighter or darker than the other. Once again, if Alfre Woodard and her white husband have had a good relationship all these years, it is not because she is Black an he white. No matter what one’s background or shade is, a good marriage takes work and due respect. And, part the respect for the relationship is to keep significant portions of your relationship out of the public eye. Believe what you want, and yes a partner does tend to look good when he and or she have some cheddar, but when you choose to look at that person every day and cuddle with that person every night and conduct business with that person and remain committed to that person; you have made a decision that transcends the Black shades or white color lines. Any time we see a couple that appears to be making it work. I think we should applaud them. Once again we are looking at the Kim & Chris, please!
Umm ill…he so is not…just like T.I.( in and out of the penitentiary) Harris is father of the year for getting on his daughter for having a boyfriend at 10. GTFOH….I think not…
lol, i had to re-read that sentence like five times to get what you were saying. when i skimmed it the first time, all i saw was “T.I. has 10 year old boyfriend”
If T.I. got on his daughter for having a boyfriend at 10, then he was doing what he is supposed to do as a father.
{golf clap}
Yeah I’m tired of being told to follow in the footsteps of the almighty Jay and Bey. I wouldn’t be interested in a former man whore.drug dealer who is 12 years older than me. No thank you .
not even if he had a big ego?
hahahaha
Pow! Right in the kisser lol. Good one Champ
Glad to see that ShardeMarie has standards though. I imagine those would be my sentiments if I were a woman. Especially if I were Beyonce, but if he makes her happy then i’m happy for them both. I love that I’ll have the option to get a woman 12 years younger than me though. Even I’ll probably opt out, it’s pretty awesome to know that I could if I wanted to
I’m just thinking about the ex-drug dealers who actually go around telling young men “don’t do what I did. this is what happens to you if you make the choices I did, don’t go down that path and if you are on it, get off”
Those types of men are dead serious about saving young men’s lives and stopping the cancer in their communities–so yes, Champ’s points made me feel a whole lot more than a Jay Z lyric.
“I’m just thinking about the ex-drug dealers who actually go around telling young men ‘don’t do what I did. this is what happens to you if you make the choices I did, don’t go down that path and if you are on it, get off’”
If this was Jay’s message, he undermined himself by eventually going on to be a billionaire, marrying Beyonce, and birthing the pop culture equivalent of Jesus. Dudes stopped listening to all that “don’t do what I do” stuff as soon as they saw that by doing what he did, Jay got all THAT.
It’s just like some women stay put with the CLEARLY wrong dude because some friend of a friend somewhere in Bali eventually MARRIED a guy who did all the WRONG things (just like HER guy), and they’re supposedly sublimely happy. The male equivalent is to do all that dirt and think you’ll still end up with Beyonce.
Sad thing is, men who do dirt until 40-45 settle down with hot 20-somethings A LOT more often then women getting married to the guy who finally straightened up and did right by them. Life ain’t fair and ish.
“former” chile please lol. For those not in the know Jay still gets it popping, but he is far more discreet now that he’s married.
“Yeah I’m tired of being told to follow in the footsteps of the almighty Jay and Bey.”
+1
Not much I can add to that. I too am a Jay-Z fan but the lack of critical thinking on the issue of whether he can be a model for relationships and even fatherhood, is mindboggling. Let’s just keep listening to his music (and by that I’m talking pre-WTT) and call it a day.
you weren’t feeling WTT?
no, not at all. I feel like it was concocted to bring in tour money. No real passion exuded, lyrics weren’t particularly strong throughout, and it was overrated.
” …the lack of critical thinking on the issue of whether he can be a model for relationships and even fatherhood, is mindboggling. ”
Yes!
I don’t want to draw any false equivalences here, I mean my past, and possibly the past of most here, is not that of a drug dealer. But who among us could be relationship role models if we had to include all the bull$h!t and foolywang we engaged in our youth had to be included in our body of work?
Yeah I wasn’t a drug dealer or a killer, did I do things I wish I could take back? Is there anyone in here who can say they haven’t (man or woman)? Do you think the fact that you weren’t dealing drugs means:
Your Tom Foolery > Jay-Z’s Tom Foolery?
+100
Jay-Z is not the best rapper of all time. I can’t even compute that sort of blasphemy. His body of work has some highs, but I wouldn’t but anything he did in the top 25. All of his duo and group work is blah. He released the Blueprint 2. Common perception is that Nas bodied him with Ether. The greatest rapper of all time is clearly Ghostface Killah. No one has a discography that compares.
Granted I’m not on Twitter as much as usual because Tumblr has become my current attention stealer so I don’t people were actually attempting to start the argument that Jay is a role model. I don’t see how. We have absolutely zero insight into how their relationship operates on any level. Even if we operate under the assumption that Jay and Beyonce’s records are 100% factual in the depiction of their relation, that isn’t anything to aspire to have.
Don’t forget to shout out the slums of Shaolin, the Rza, the Gza, Method Man, Raekwon the chef, O.D.B., U God, Masta Killa, and Inspectah Deck.
Wu-Tang forever! And Talib Kweli for lyrical content. Nobody flows on the mic harder than Pimp C
Shout out to Rakim, Lupe, Blu, Em… though it’s really difficult to declare a g.o.a.t. They all have their own styles, and the audience and goal vary. There is also an issue of wordsmithery vs accessibility. Both of these factor into how good a rapper is. You even have to consider who their producers are as well. Some rappers sound better than lower caliber rappers because their producers are more talented. It’s not a 1 + 2 + 3 thing, it’s a, x + y + z type issue… ok, I’ll get off of this tangent now…
I like this comment a whole lot. Ghost is one of my favs….
“Jay-Z is not the best rapper of all time. I can’t even compute that sort of blasphemy. His body of work has some highs, but I wouldn’t but anything he did in the top 25. All of his duo and group work is blah. He released the Blueprint 2. Common perception is that Nas bodied him with Ether. The greatest rapper of all time is clearly Ghostface Killah. No one has a discography that compares.”
Ghostface is my favorite rapper too, but by most reasonable metrics (consistently, longevity, skill, influence, etc) Jay-Z grades near the top.
The first Blueprint isn’t in your top 25?
Tony for mayor, Tony for Mayor…
First of all, how dare you ignore the Great Bard of Wyandanch, the God MC, Rakim Allah. Though I do feel you on Ghostface Killah. While I wouldn’t say he’s number one, he’s definitely in my top 10 list and is probably the most versatile MC to bless the mic.
That said, I think Jay Z is a role model for that dude who screwed up in his youth that, yes, you can become a responsible pillar of the community. There are so many brother who think that because they did dumb crap in their youth that they’re worthless and throw their lives away. While I wouldn’t hold him up as an example for the youth, I would hold him up as a example for that dude who wants to get his act together.
For me Rakim will always be the greatest. Hands down. He was skating lyrical circles around folks before folks even knew what it mean to be lyrical.
That all said, you lost me when you said nothing Jay-Z’s done even breaks into your top 25. This is unfathomable and requires either:
1) more people
2) a detailed hip hop explanation that goes completey off topic
I’d prefer option #2
LOL.
I’ll be back with option number 2.
Ok, taking bets what do you think we will get first
a) A studio LP from Jay Electronica
b) Option #2 from Malik
“Jay-Z is not the best rapper of all time.”
Ghostface? Um, ok.
Maybe a more appropriate way to look at Jay as a relationship role model is as the exception and not the rule. He represents the possibility of doing 20 years of dirt and still establishing a healthy relationship and family, not the model of healthy relationship building.
“Maybe a more appropriate way to look at Jay as a relationship role model is as the exception and not the rule”
good point
Very good point…
I’m not saying he should be a role model, I’m just saying if you hold him up as one, it should be on the basis of the relationship he has now… not the ones that didn’t last (for whatever reason). That’s the one we would suggest should be emulated.
“Maybe a more appropriate way to look at Jay as a relationship role model is as the exception and not the rule.”
Masboot! Correct! ¡Precisamente!
Ain’t nobody looking at JayZ or TI for advice on love and being a father.
Nor are women looking for Michelle to pen a memoir on how she just happened to snag Barack.
FOH with that.
Ninjas need to live they own life and stop lookin at these folks who “made it” to either be the prototype or the target of scrutiny.
You’re right…but I study/research the media, that’s what I do professionally. I wish it were that simple… real talk, folk of a certain age and maturity can’t decifer one from the next. These youngins comin up….yes those getting tatoos all over the place for no reason… not so much. So, they are looking at TI and Jay as a role model. We all know parents should be the first role model blah blah blah, but the reality is many parents are not… and TI and Jay in many households are…
It makes the people who go around saying that t.v. = mind control seem not so crazy.
So true! I can’t buy into the fact that people are paying attenion to their moves. It’s more so, people paying attention to them as a couple in their projects mainly because they make it their business to stay in the press
So true! I can’t buy into the fact that people are paying attenion to their moves. It’s more so, people paying attention to them as a couple in their projects mainly because they make it their business to stay in the press
i disagree agree with this. one, because, for a uber-famous couple, they seem to be relatively private. also, there are people with a laser-beam like focus on everything they do
Announcing pregnancy on VMA’s…subtle
“Ninjas need to live they own life and stop lookin at these folks who “made it” to either be the prototype or the target of scrutiny.”
This is true. Its funny how we don’t truly know these people or how good/bad their personal relationships are but yet many want to mimic a relationship they know nothing about. I actually don’t need celebrities/entertainers to tell me what I want out of a relationship.
I am a big Jay-Z fan. Went to the WTT tour last year and the BP3 tour in 2010. However, I do sometimes wonder if he feels any remorse or responsibility for the behavior and mentality of the generation of young men that were raised on the money, cash, hoes portion of his catalog. It is very apparent in many of the men that I deal with on the dating scene that the only father figures they had were Jay-Z, Ja Rule, and 50 cent (I am 24 btw). Think about the lessons that these “dads” taught their “sons”.
While you may not got your relationship guidance from Jay and Bey, there are thousands, if not millions of young people who do, so it is important to hold him accountable for his actions.
Hi there. Your statement is so profound and I thank you for it. I’ve been chatting up you all’s commentary on Twitter (@drgoddess), so I owe this blogpost commentary as well. I was just sent a link from Clutch Magazine on how Jay called himself an “animal” for “Big Pimpin’” and I do appreciate that, I must say, but that’s just not enough. And, now, I fear that if he comes out with some “I was a real ass” PSAs for the youth, they may see him as washed up and/or the old dude at the club, now that he’s married and a father. Unless, of course, you’re Ice Cube and you’re married to a bundle of saline solution and you allow your son to go around calling himself a pimp. Lawd.
Also, I think that Bey’s more stable home life and great love from her parents allowed her to share a transformational love with Jay Z. He seems to have really been healed by his developing a relationship with his father before he died and with Bey’s unconditional love for him and vice versa. I think it’s a beautiful thing and, perhaps their story is more so about how we can heal childhood trauma and wounds?
I shared this when I was on the panel at “The Dating Truth” in Pittsburgh, PA and some people laughed at me (*cries*) but I stand by it. LOL.
Great post, Champ! xoxo
+ infinity
in response to TrackStar’s comment.
Oh so agree!!! I’ve actually heard people (yes people I know gay dudes too) say things like “I want a man like Jay Z” and my first thought always is “Oh you want a man that sleeps with another man’s baby mama and then raps about it to make the other guy look bad? Cool story bro”. That and I can’t cosign anyone calling their significant other a bitch. I don’t care if it’s a compliment or the rap game, I’m not the baddest bitch in the game homie and if you wanna eat dinner in our house you better realize it.
who knew gay men had crushes on jay-z too?
Word! I’d think Jay-Z would be low on the list of celebs gay dudes are checking for.
If that the case who is first on that list…”Wheelchair Jimmy”?
I’m still trying to figure out what any woman sees in him. O_o
This speaks to the TYPE of masculinity people think is attractive — how masculinity is portrayed, what it says, how it behaves et cetera. And JayZ would be on the list of men even gay dudes would like – why? because even gay men look at what masculinity is, especially when JayZ’s type of masculinity is also linked with being a powerful person.
Yeah…no. I’m calling BS on this for a few reasons:
1) While Jay-Z is reported 42 years old (which means 40 is the new???…I digress), his relationship status NOW is what people are lauding. How he got there, people don’t care too much for or about. Not saying that it doesn’t matter, but at the end of the day, people respect the end result because they don’t usually see what it takes to get to that point. Speaking of which…
2) You, me and anyone not involved in his daily life or inner circle have NO IDEA what type of man he was prior to being with his wife. We can speculate based on his music, but honestly…how many former flames have come out and said anything, good or bad, about this man? Not including Superhead, I can’t think of one. And Superhead was a jump-off, not a legitimate gf or significant other. As we know little to nothing about his past relationships from the people directly involved, how can anyone say with confidence that this man was this or that in his personal life and relationships with women?
3) Men don’t have to do dirt in order to get it right. I know y’all want us to desperately believe that y’all need to sport f*ck until your late 30′s in order to appreciate a good woman, but that’s a line of BS this woman isn’t buying. You either realize the worth or keep it moving.
4) Let’s suppose for a minute that you’re right and he was a ho, dog, playboy, etc earlier in his life. The type of women he encountered may have had something to do with that. If he’s surrounded by hos, it’s easier to be a ho. Women who only wanted him for money, fame, cars and clothes probably got a fraction of that and some dyck for good measure. Then along comes someone with her own, not looking for a come up and he was impressed. So he had to step his game up.
At the end of the day, the message should be that when the right one comes along, men need to step up. Y’all holler about “where are the good women” while you entertain and chase hos for years on end. Meanwhile the good women are sitting back wondering why we have to settle for a man who’s good years have been spent with hos. Just as no good man wants to sport a ho for a wife, no good woman wants to settle for some used up man with a string of hos (and kids upon kids, or diseases or a f*cked up mentality because of the type of women he used to deal with) in his past.
Jay-Z may have some things in his past that are unsavory (and don’t we ALL) but the message is clear. Cut the games, grow up, treat your woman with respect and class, MARRY HER and have pride in the family you two create. If that’s not admirable, then what’s the point of this all any damn way?
Mo-VSS! Your post is everythang! Your better write that girl! That last couple paragraphs how you summed it all up in the end! Masterpiece! I am sooo serious : )
YES for #2. I’ve never really heard anything from jumpoffs about jay-z ( for the record, I’m not saying it didn’t happen) but you don’t really hear about it. . .
I agree that men need to get over themselves dating all the wrong girls and then get upset if their “ideal” good girl has one blemish in her past. We as women are not sitting around waiting on men to grow up. We have lives to live as well.
“Y’all holler about “where are the good women” while you entertain and chase hos for years on end. Meanwhile the good women are sitting back wondering why we have to settle for a man who’s good years have been spent with hos. Just as no good man wants to sport a ho for a wife, no good woman wants to settle for some used up man with a string of hos (and kids upon kids, or diseases or a f*cked up mentality because of the type of women he used to deal with) in his past”
doesn’t this contradict your entire “this is BS” premise? i mean, isn’t that exactly what jay-z (supposedly) did? (spent his “good” years being a ho and chasing hoes)
If, in fact, that’s what he did, it’s BS cuz no woman wants that. You’re asserting that men who are looking at him as a role model have to do what he did (allegedly) to get what he now has. That’s the BS I’m talking about. No woman wants a man who has all that dirt on his hands trying to wife her in the end because he finally realized she was a good counterpart. That’s why I made that point.
I do not agree that any woman who looks at the end result (his marriage and child) in a high regard has to put up with crappy behavior from someone or wait until men in their 20′s and 30′s wh0re out of the game to come their way. Nor do I believe men have to behave as hos in order to turn over a new leaf and do right by a chick. If that’s the point of your post (which I read it as such) then I call BS.
My point is he can be a role model for what he’s doing now. Also, people can look at his current actions and not believe they have to do what he did in the past to get the same result. His results aren’t directly correlated with his past. His results are based on his efforts to change (again, IF he was a wh0re in his past). Thing is..we don’t know anything about his past based on anything but gossip and assumptions so your assertion that his past as a wh0re=blueprint for relationship success that the male masses are eating up is faulty, and therefore BS.
@Mo-VSS @the Champ: I agree points both of you are making…
@Mo-VSS: lol I thought he was being facetiously serious there. I could be wrong, but I read that with an “I’m joking, though it’s the truth” kind of tone. More of a “I’m being funny, but you get the idea” type of deal…
@-Mo VSS- I agree. However, Jay-z choosing to smash every attractive chick that he had the opportunity to bed has no bearing on why the rest of us want to be manwhores while we’re young and (relatively) attractive. He’s just the most visible example we have to reference…
The point is noone should be labeled as a role model. Noone knows what kind of relationship he and Beyonce has. They may have a horrible relationship and show us what they want us to see. Children/adults should never idolize anyone.
We should all try to help each other, and uplift each other, but stay clear of human Gods.
Plenty of women want former man whores. Former man whores get married to women who are happy, no, elated to have them. Every day.
I think its morw likely than not Jay Z spent his youth taking advantage of the opportunities presented him. If he was pushing women off him day and night and keeping himself pure for a good woman, I’m thinking he might say something about it.
Ima go ahead and assume he did his dirt and got it out of his system and the beautiful Beyonce fell crazy in love with him regardless. That’s how it usually works.
(For female hoes, too)
“I think its more likely than not Jay Z spent his youth taking advantage of the opportunities presented him. If he was pushing women off him day and night and keeping himself pure for a good woman, I’m thinking he might say something about it.”
e.g. Tebow? I know I might catch some h*ll behind this but I really want to see if he could pull it off (staying a virgin while being a NFL star). I know the temptation was great when he was in Florida but now all the groupies are after him. lol.
“Nor do I believe men have to behave as hos in order to turn over a new leaf and do right by a chick. If that’s the point of your post (which I read it as such) then I call BS.”
the point of my post is that jay-z’s past is exactly why he’s able to have such a great present. you can’t ignore that if you want to give him relationship role model status. you want to say be more like jay-z? fine. but acknowledge that jay-z is “like jay-z” now because of certain actions that aren’t very, um, role modelesque.
You talked about many topics at once, but I wanted to point out this:
“No woman wants a man who has all that dirt on his hands trying to wife her in the end because he finally realized she was a good counterpart.”
Yet there are women who seek out men like this…thinking they will change him or stick with him until he finally marries her.
Weren’t we talking about Jim Jones proposal to his now official fiancée recently?
There are women seeking out thugs and liking being called his bitch and thinking that all the past dirt he did makes him hot.
I’ve heard women who are “upstanding” and “good” say they want a man like Jay-Z.
*le sigh*
I had to laugh a bit…
I find it funny that someone would say that no one doesn’t want a manwhore when they are the exact people that I see getting married and trying to say that it’s a good look for everyone. Whereas I don’t really GAF, the dudes who had women at their beck and call like a vending machine are now trying to tell me that I need to settle it down because that’s where they are at. SMH.
“I’ve heard women who are “upstanding” and “good” say they want a man like Jay-Z.”
You act like it’s only some of em lol. If I had a nickel everytime I heard something like “I want a intellectual with that Tupac swag” dead lol
I’m with you, Justme, trust me. . . *sigh*
Amen girl! Nuff said.
Damn Mo, I think I love you! And I am married with kids! That post was the most. Do you have a blog somewhere? Cheers darling;)
LOL, I’m too lazy to blog. I’ve started a few but the commitment waned and here I am…on someone else’s blog. Thanks for the comment.
@MoVSS YES!!!
slow clap, alldis ^^^^
And though I rEALLy hate to quote Drake (sigh) didn’t he say in one of his most recent whines, i mean songs, that even he is aware of the incongruity of having slept with a boatload of hoes but then expecting purity from any future wife?
+1 and Co-sign.
“3) Men don’t have to do dirt in order to get it right. I know y’all want us to desperately believe that y’all need to sport f*ck until your late 30′s in order to appreciate a good woman, but that’s a line of BS this woman isn’t buying. You either realize the worth or keep it moving.”
That has always been my line of thinking. It might not be culturally “popular at the moment” but I think its important to me to be able to tell my future wife that I wasn’t chasing women like its a recreational sport.
“At the end of the day, the message should be that when the right one comes along, men need to step up. Y’all holler about “where are the good women” while you entertain and chase hos for years on end. Meanwhile the good women are sitting back wondering why we have to settle for a man who’s good years have been spent with hos. Just as no good man wants to sport a ho for a wife, no good woman wants to settle for some used up man with a string of hos (and kids upon kids, or diseases or a f*cked up mentality because of the type of women he used to deal with) in his past.”
People bring so much unnecessary baggage (emotional, f*cked up thinking and other stupid ish) into relationships. We as people has been conditioned to think that just because we meet the “right” person everything is going to work out. Irregardless of the fact that (I’m using examples here) she has trust issues (an ex cheated on her), financial issues (debt up to wazoo) and emotional issues (her dad left when she was a child, dude was basically Barney Stinson in undergrad). I really think that its unfair for the “right” person to put up with that kind of unnecessary BS. It takes years, patience and a lot of prayer to change that kind of behavior.
To respond to Mo’s #3:
I see your point, but let’s be honest; quite a few women have sport-smushing pasts (or even presents) themselves, too.
Agreed, but since this post is about a man, I chose to emphasize men’s actions.
Duly noted. Just wanted to put that out there though so both side of the story were getting told.
A’can ah get an AMEN! *cue the tambourines, hollerin’, and joyful noise*
Got. Damn. I am not worthy. m(_ _)m
m(_ _)m <-this is cute!!!!
Well said! I usually read and don’t comment much, but this right here?? Esp. #3…Yes ma’am.
There is also the message that you can be a manho as long as you make it right in the end. Sure, we see his success now, but they also legitimize his failures. It is like looking at Bill Gates life. Dropping out of college to pursue your dream got so much better because of him. Even though that is an awful plan for most.
AWSOME!
Meh, I mean…I don’t know that it matters in the grand scheme of things. He’s not the first rock star to marry a younger woman, have a kid with her and all that. It’s just different ’cause it’s rap.
apples and hand grenades.
You can pull the stem off of both. ijs.
lol
Well as I live and breathe, there has been a Tezzy sighting.
Le shrug. People think anyone who is seemingly happy and “made it” is a great role model for anything. Ninjas stay trippin
Totally Unrelated:I hate watching commercials for Snuggle laundry softener that bear is hella creepy. And why the freak is he/she whispering in a Darius from ABG baby voice?
LOL, I think that talking baby in the E-Trade commercial is creepy.
Darius needs his own show. We wouldn’t be able to follow it without closed captioning, but he needs his own show.
Has Jay-Z has made positive changes in his life since running around like a hoodlum whore? yes. Has his views/treatment of women matured? Hmmm … maybe. I don’t know about other women, but if my rapper husband was on songs referring to me as his b**** and alluding to the fact that I’m the girl in his bedroom, I’d feel disrespected. He may treat her like a queen in private, but as much as Beyonce gushes about him in her songs, he could at least refer to her in a more respectful manner.
The fact that you’d be offended, tells me that you would never have “a rapper husband”.
You say it like she’s supposed to want one.
Jay’s no different from any other ninja that decided to grow up & settle down. He had another baby that he conveniently stashed in St. Thomas while he was with Bey, so he’s definitely not perfect. I think its good to have positive examples of healthy relationships with the black community, but I wouldn’t advise someone to model their lives/relationships after them. Let’s just all be happy for ‘em & that be that!
This whole “St Thomas baby mystery” doesn’t bother me in the least. Because we don’t know him and Bey’s relationship and what it was like before, if he did have a kid with another woman while they were reportedly together, maybe she accepts it cuz for reasons that we aren’t (and shouldn’t) be privy to.
I agree that folks should either be happy for them or live and let live. This fanfare is cute and all but somewhat puzzling to me because….they’re married and had a baby. I know marriage is on the decline but thousands of folks do this very thing everyday. Nothing more, nothing less.
“This fanfare is cute and all but somewhat puzzling to me because….they’re married and had a baby.”
Exactly! I didn’t understand what the hype was all about. We see this stuff everyday. I think the majority of the interest stems from the fact that they’re so hush hush about their relationship. Would we be so interested if they openly shared the details of their relationship like other celebs?
” We see this stuff everyday.”
I want to weep when people say they *don’t* see that everyday. That is why JayZ is praised for being the one they see doing marriage and kids.
Oh my bad its st. Thomas? I thought it wuz DR. St thomas sounds more right tho…….
my bad, it’s Trinidad. I knew there was a T in there somewhere!
Yes! The child in Trinidad looks a little too much like him…the mystery child that they sais lives in the million dollar house but his mom is a video model…can we say hush money???
I just don’t get why folks are acting like the birth of Blue is the second coming of the messiah. They had a baby. It’s healthy. Great! Let’s wish them well and move on.
If that mystery child thing is true, I cannot praise him as a father when he is not giving the side piece’s child the same experience as the Blue baby. Regardless of how a child was conceived, it still deserves love, time, attention, nurturing, support and adoration. Don’t do for one what you aren’t doing for the other…..and if he is doing so, that makes him a prime example of what NOT to do as a father.
I’d like to think he’s .spoling his son and giving him the same kind of affection/attention and we just dont see it. With his son being all the way in Trinidad, i can imagine its hard to dedicate the same amount of time, but who really knows how he’s handling that situation!
If ol girl’s a video model, that was ALL KINDS of hush money!!! Lol
I don’t understand how people make role models out of people they don’t know! I have no idea what Jay-Z and Beyonce’s relationship is like, so how and why would i even chose to speak on it much less attempt to want to emulate it?
Similarly i don’t understand why people are willing to fight to the death over celebrities (i.e Beyonce stans). You don’t know that person and they damn sure don’t know you. How are you going to vouch for someone you know only though some lyrical fairy tales?
I don’t understand how people make role models out of people they don’t know
because of slavery. and tyler perry.
When in doubt, blame Tyler Perry.
It’s apparently human nature to feel like you know a person (even if you’ve never met) if you can identify with them or feel connected with them on some level. If an artist makes a song that song that resonates with us (because it’s telling a part of our lives and validates our experience) or just moves us emotionally – we feel like we’re bonded to that person.
Hell, I never met Michael Jackson but it hurt a little bit when he died.
well i must not be human then because i can clearly tell the difference between liking someone’s music, even when it strikes a particular nerve, and thinking someone is a Godsend just because they can sing/rap/dance/act/juggle/burp the alphabet!
I don’t think “feeling a connection with the artist” is exactly the same as “thinking they’re a Godsend”. I think the first is reasonable and the latter is what happens when folks lose perspective a little bit.
Still all I was suggesting was feeling a connection with an artist is not an alien concept. Some do it more than they should, but it’s inherently human.
Our community needs to stop worshipping “celebrity culture” and having Rappers as Role Models!
The Obama’s are the ultimate role models all AA’s should strive to be like…not some drug-dealing thug and his girlfriend who shouts…not sings…
i think a rapper can be a role model. just not in this context.
I’d expand this to ” There are role models in our community from different walks of life who have learned valuable lessons that they share with their children, mentors, cousins, kids at their school. We are the role models.”
society needs to stop worshipping celebrity/celebrity culture PERIOD.
Short and to the point but oh so true.
“society needs to stop worshipping celebrity/celebrity culture PERIOD”
This would solve er’thing KB… er’thing… well a lot of things.
for all the men who want to be able to do as much dirt as they can in their 20′s and 30′s and still be able to pull a young hot chick when they’re a decade away from AARP and finally ready to settle down. BEST LINE EVER. I don’t get the rappers on reality tv or Jay-Z being relationship models. I mean really ladies. T.I. has two kids the same age but two different women. I do wish the new family Congrats on the new baby but NO Jay-Z, T.I. or Jim Jones will not represent what a good relationship looks like to me. I prefer a man who knows values and doesn’t think time behind bars makes him hard. IJS. btw President Obama didn’t bring the light-skinned men back. They never went out of style for me. LOL!
I do wish the new family Congrats on the new baby but NO Jay-Z, T.I. or Jim Jones will not represent what a good relationship looks like to me
in comparison to fab and emily they do
Fab and Emily do what? Are they even a couple anymore? Please. She needs to grow up and realize that man is not worried about her. He knows she’ll always be there, that’s why he keeps popping back up. She needs to work on her self-esteem so she can meet a man who actually cares about her.
Oooohhhhhh, I am def going to check back for the commentary on this one. Its going to be . . . interesting? Yea, that the word I choose
i doubt it, lol. but check back anyway
I replied. You might be surprised. lol.
I’m confused. Why can’t he be a role model? Yeah, he did dirt, as did most. But when you know better, you do better. Two amazingly talented and prolific artists got married, had a baby, and are seemingly VERY happy. If they say they happy, I’m happy for them. I wish more of our people could be happy — by any means necessary!
he can be a role model. but i just think we need to be more cognizant of what calling him a relationship role model really means.
I also think we need to be cognizant of the fact that he is still the exception, not the rule. Lots of men start out drug dealing and hardly any of them end up being business moguls (sadly). I don’t think we should tell young men that they will never get out of the hussle, but to put some idealistic notion in their head that dealing crack will lead to abundance of wealth and success isn’t good either.
I get legitimately worried when we act as though a role model-whether rightfully or wrongfully dubbed so-can change or even influence the behavior of an entire group en masse. Forgive me, but I just don’t see there being sudden move across the country to settle down just cause this ninja did it. Jay’s effort to *finally* get his ish together (which it took him a long time to do–thank you for artfully pointing that out) is not going to cause a massive wave of men doing the same thing. “Let’s be like Jay and Bey–will you marry me?” probably won’t be a common refrain (which is good cause that’s a serious #ProposalFail). “Let’s be like Jay and Bey and let me upgrade u” is probably more likely (should one find herself in an old head nightclub.)
Simply, be it Barack or Jay, there’s nothing that’s actually going to help folks embrace and thoughtfully seek healthy monogamous relationships across the spectrum like having a daily example of a responsible relationship will. And there in lies the cyclical issue at hand.
I wouldn’t deny the influence of pop culture. Healthy relationships in the public eye do affect others. People care about what celebrities are doing (or whatever their television tells them to care about). That’s why Jay Z and Bey having a marriage and baby and what not is such big news. Jay still spits hard and maintains a heavy influence and presence in the rap game (even post retirement;). It’s good that everyone is watching a family. Most people are sheep anyways. The more people they see doing something, the more they’ll want to do it.
The unfortunate thing is that many younger brothas are going to see this and pretty much try to follow in Jay Zs footsteps. Entrepreneurship is a thousand times more appealing than paying a hundred thousand dollars to be in debt for life and work for someone else for forty years. Dope dealing as a means to an end may be more appealing thanks to our F.O.T.Y. 2012 Jigga, and now people have a visible end to shoot for.
Most people i grew up with who aspired to be an entrepreneur in street pharmacy pretty much figure they’d do the same thing. I speculate that Jay z’s maturity may have been part of the plan…
I wouldn’t deny the influence of pop culture either–I think that it’s a great thing for young women in particular to see a star who became famous because of her talent, got married, and had a baby–in exactly that order. That’s a healthy and powerful example to point to.
However, because such is not yet the norm in Hollywood *or* in The Wood, the influence won’t have the massive effect we hoped, say, the Obama’s marital bliss would have on our numbers of happy, unbroken homes. Call me a cynic, but I just don’t see one man being able to do that–especially when he rapped for years about doing the exact opposite.
” there’s nothing that’s actually going to help folks embrace and thoughtfully seek healthy monogamous relationships across the spectrum like having a daily example of a responsible relationship will. And there in lies the cyclical issue at hand.”
Yes, the relationships you see everyday become tattooed in your mind and affect how you go about getting into and maintaining relationships or staying out of them and sowing oats.
Well said. Exactly what I try to explain to every person I know in a heated debate about why I am not a devoted Jay-Z fan.
As a person who grew up in an inner-city black neighborhood, and witnessed friends and family (namely my parents) fall victim to the crack epidemic in the 80′s and 90′s, I really do not understand why no one sees the problem with idolizing a person who made money of the suffering of their own folks. Then made more money off rapping about it.
I just wish folks would just see it for what it is.
Thanks for the post.
“As a person who grew up in an inner-city black neighborhood, and witnessed friends and family (namely my parents) fall victim to the crack epidemic in the 80′s and 90′s, I really do not understand why no one sees the problem with idolizing a person who made money of the suffering of their own folks. Then made more money off rapping about it.”
this is one of those elephants in the room that we’d just rather not talk about.
+1…
I finally got around to watching “Planet Rock: The Story of Hip Hop and the Crack Epidemic,” and I thought, finally–someone is going to hold us accountable for destroying our own communities and tell the truth about how our “enterprises” killed off our very own…
my hopes were dashed. It definitely delved into the way crack sales funded recording sessions and entire careers (which is why Jay didn’t do interviews for the first part of his career–he was still selling!) and the way that music was an outlet for former dealers.
But never once was it discussed that music was only a salvation for dealers and never addicts, and only 1 of the stars profiled (B Real) actually expressed any regret or guilt over having killed his own people in the first place.
+1
The crack epidemic fucked up families and communities. Hell, some are still recovering and going to NA meetings and getting their kids and family back together in the aftermath. We have a large number of Black children in foster care and foster-to-adopt behind the aftermath of this.
Free my comment please
“As a person who grew up in an inner-city black neighborhood, and witnessed friends and family (namely my parents) fall victim to the crack epidemic in the 80′s and 90′s, I really do not understand why no one sees the problem with idolizing a person who made money of the suffering of their own folks. Then made more money off rapping about it.”
Exactly. I grew up in Harlem. Moved to Harlem from Dominican Republic in 1985 when I was just a one-year-old baby. In the height of the crack epidemic. I’m glad Jay-Z turned his life around, but did he really? He used that money to create an empire for himself. I don’t see Bed-Stuy or the Marcy Projects turned into lucrative cooperative buildings. Please, someone, correct me if I’m wrong.
…Nope…just saw a story they other day about a 3 foot long, monster-rat in Marcy (or Bed-Stuy)
I saw a photo of that sucker… still recovering.
Those Monster-Rats are what keep the streets gully!
*Pause* Wait a minute! Who said Jay Z was a relationship role model?! He’s paid his dues due to talent and process of elimination (yeah I said it). But I don’t believe he will set a trend and bestow on to his legion of young black male followers to wife up “wifeys” and start growing families. Just. No. But I do believe this sets him up to inevitably run for some sort of public office.
Heaven forfend! Governor Jigga?
No no, vice President! lol.
Lol I’ve actually never heard anyone refer to Jay as a relationship role model but that may be due to the type of people I befriend; they don’t pattern their relationships/lifestyles after entertainers/rappers.
“*Pause* Wait a minute! Who said Jay Z was a relationship role model?!”
lol, all you have to do is google “jay-z relationship role model” and you’ll see
Yeah, Jay is a roll model. Men, hold out for a Beyonce, collateral damage bed damned. The reformed Mr. Big is the dream, same great taste as the jerk that all women seem to be attracted to, none of the calories. The disconnect is most women seem to identify with Beyonce and think of the collateral as faceless others while he odds would suggest most belong to the latter. But America is a country founded on a statistical anomaly, somehow we’re all special. Black Republicans.
My question is why do folks assume he was a 20 year, platinum member of the wh0res team? He may have been the dude smart enough to rap about hos, cars, clothes and other things (because that’s what people want and will buy…Ignant Sh*t) but even smarter not to indulge in ho-things all his life.
I’m just saying…may not be anything like most people think. I’m not a Jay or Bey stan, just adding an alternative perspective to a situation we know nothing about.
“He may have been the dude smart enough to rap about hos, cars, clothes and other things (because that’s what people want and will buy…Ignant Sh*t) but even smarter not to indulge in ho-things all his life.”
LOL. You can’t be serious.
“He may have been the dude smart enough to rap about hos, cars, clothes and other things (because that’s what people want and will buy…Ignant Sh*t) but even smarter not to indulge in ho-things all his life.”
I totally believe that. Jay said it himself: “I used to want to rhyme like Common Sense (but I made 5 mil); I ain’t been rhyming like Common since…”
It’s not a stretch for me to think that his PEOPLE (Rocafella) were the only one’s perpetuating that assumption whilst Jay was busy taking correspondence classes or some ish. Lyrically, I think that Jay is brilliant. We haven’t seen wedding picture the first; they were very strategic with that. They’re so private that there are incredible rumors about the true parentage of Baby Blue and then some. I give Jay a lot of credit but on a whole, I don’t think his critics give him enough credit.
I can believe that he didn’t indulge as much as his music leads us to believe. I read the majority of his biography and it explained that he was shy for the most part. You had to make music about topics that were relevant and that would sell. He did that. Doesn’t necessarily mean HE experienced all that first hand.
So you guys AREN’T joking. Okay, sorry to insult my gender, but that’s female over optimism right there. With all that opportunity P around, and all of his “tough dude I don’t love these hoes” lyrics, which are a clear indication that he was protecting his heart/ego from the booty he was smanging, you ladies think he was somehow taking things slowly? Really?
“So you guys AREN’T joking.
LOL, I was about to type the same thing. a guy who wrote a song about f*cking his rivals girl and leaving condoms in the baby seat is all of a sudden a paragon of romantic virtue? I love VSB.
Glad I wasn’t the only one that was giving the side eye that Jay just rapped about smanging lots of women but in reality he was really turning down all the groupies.
I was thinking the same thing!
I just don’t think it was to the extent everyone thinks it was…but that’s just me tho! Lol.
“I read the majority of his biography and it explained that he was shy for the most part. You had to make music about topics that were relevant and that would sell. He did that.”
I know a shy dude who cooks crack and is on the block at 5am every day.
Hah! Jay may have been shy but them ho*s didnt need him to talk.
I know shy dudes who are having lots of sex. Shy dudes who have children all over the place. lol
I’m dead serious. In the age of internet, side hos selling their stories for a few thousand and temporary fame, we hear nothing about this man. Not from his camp, not from former flames, not from too many scorned business associates (outside of Dame Dash)…nothing.
That leads me to believe he’s done far less of what he’s talked about in his music and used his time to make far more business moves.
Just makes me believe he paid ‘em off. Kept his hands clean. Never burned bridges. Jay is not a stupid man…maybe he chose his hos wisely
If he was an actual whore or not has nothing to do with with what the effects of the perception he presented or it’s interpretation by either sex. If he did find that lifestyle morally objectionable enough not to live it but still consciosuly glorify it to the youth, then that would make him a horrible person, a sellout, and and the worst kind of exploiting pimp of black culture, not smart. But he wouldn’t have slept with a bunch of consenting adults, and I guess that’s the true measure of a man… that women want as a friend or shoulder to cry on.
Gotta agree with you on this, sir. And your original comment as well. That mentality some women have that all those other women were hoes and shes a special princess is really a lot of delusion, fantasy, denial.
Disney is a liar
“Disney is a liar”
lol yes they are and if I have children they will not be allowed to watch those damn Disney fairy tales
“Disney is a liar”
*faints* LAWDhamercy. I do not appreciate this Disney slander!! Fantasy is on its surface… lying. But… it’s lying with sugar on top. Sweet.
*goes into Disney diabetic coma*
@Medium Meech I couldn’t agree with you more so, both comments as well.
I so agree Medium Meech and Wild Cougar.
I like how you flipped that up at the end. Every chick thinks that they’re special when they really aren’t.
Oh, and it’s an excuse to post this: http://youtu.be/Kvo5qx71oQk
I agree, I blame Beyonce Hoodrat Houston ass for not knowing her worth!!!!! Pretty women messing the game with these fat, nasty, disgusting, dread having, nigga need a bra (Rick Ross) type mofos. But in actuality JayZ isnt my type of dude so somebody had to take one for the team!!!!!
Wow.
tell us how you really feel, next time
_/
+me
O_O
*crickets*
Standing ovation for this post. People always want to praise the “miraculous turn around” black men with crappy pasts. I’m tired of the corporate thug idol silliness.
I do see why people get the warm-fuzzies over Jay-Bey-baby…because the situation doesn’t look like an episode of Jerry Springer. But that’s the thing…the soft bigotry of low expectations, except coming from black people instead of white people.
“the soft bigotry of low expectations, except coming from black people instead of white people.”
Damn, damn, and damn James.
+5
+1
So once a dude goes thug, he should be left to languish on the corner for the rest of his days, at least until we recycle them for slave labor and Soylent Green production? I’m not saying a man should go there in the first place, but why not let a dude get his act together if he wants. It allows someone to become an asset when he or she wasn’t before. That’s all to the good.
“…least until we recycle them for slave labor and Soylent Green production?…”
LOL!
I’m not saying a man should go there in the first place, but why not let a dude get his act together if he wants.
i think what she’s saying is that guys who did dirt for 20 years and decide to be good for 20 weeks are given a helping of praise that they really haven’t earned yet.
I see your point, but there’s a fine line there. You don’t want to praise a dude for doing the right thing for only a minute, but there’s a time when you gotta recognize a dude actually has changed for the better.
Sure, a guy can get hs act together. But we should keep things in perspective.
Jay-Z for not fulfilling 100% of his ratchetness potential. Polite clap.
The scores of celebrity and non celebrity black men who have led decent lives with a steady moral compass. Standing ovation.
Wait, is he wearing a two piece blue jean outfit in that photo?
LOL, the denims don’t match so it’s not a two-piece but it is denim on denim.
So wait, because Jay-Z doesn’t have a squeaky clean past he can’t be a role model? Seriously? I absolutely disagree. Just as Barack Obama show black males everywhere that what mama said was true (you can be anything you want to be, even President), Jay-Z can be the role model for the males that have been or are currently living the lifestyle that Jay-Z used to live. That you can only be the thug/drug dealer for so long before you need to grow up, settle down, have a family, and put the past behind you. Now, the steps needed to get there vary greatly from what Jay-Z did, as not everyone can rap. Especially not as good as he
It’s funny how black people are always crying and whining about we needing to “uplift” and support each other, yet we fail to forgive the black people whose made some bad mistakes and are currently trying to better their lives (Chris Brown for example), when we should be glad they’re even trying to be positive in the first place.
I think we all forgave Chris Brown. That boy can sang.
I didn’t. lol
he doesn’t get forgiven untill i see him picking up trash by the side of the FDR wearing an orange smock and a penitent expression, like the court made naomi campbell for throwing a phone that (maybe) didn’t even hit anyone ; )
“Jay-Z can be the role model for the males that have been or are currently living the lifestyle that Jay-Z used to live”
you’re right. he can be. but don’t tell “normal, law-abiding” people that they need to be more like jay-z too.
If you haven’t notice though, there are disproportionately more ninjas with cases than with other communities. When you consider how many dudes went through the system or escaped the system while doing some criminal stuff (and I know some guys like that), a role model like that is DEFINITELY needed.
I think they need a role model who teaches them not to do stuff to get “in the system” in the first place.
In such a case Jay-Z’s story only serves to teach to do what you can til you can do what you want.
i don’t get the big deal. he’s not a role model to educated grown professional men who are more than likely going to settle down, get married and raise a family anyway, he’s just their favorite rapper. they may respect his business hustle, but they’re not trying to be Jay-Z. i’d judge them heavily if they were. lol
the ones modeling themselves after rappers are the young men who spread seed in ten different “baby mamas” and spend their mcdonald’s checks on jordans. maybe, just maybe, they will see this picture of an actual seemingly functional and loving hiphop couple and model themselves after that. instead of breaking into a praise dance on Maury for not being the father, they MIGHT just be inspired to take responsibility and be proud.
we can say all day who the role models SHOULD be, but that doesn’t change the reality of who they actually are, and i don’t think to admire someone or want to reach a point that someone is at in life, that you have to model your life exactly like theirs. i want to be a respected and renowned author, but i don’t plan to develop any heavy drinking problems or a sex addiction or become a lesbian or marry five times or not shower for 37 days while i create some masterpiece. lol
i know it’s a reach… but if he’s influencing the minds of anyone… it’s the type of men/boys that NEED some semblance of positive reinforcement that they’ll actually listen to since it’s not present in their lives. and i’m not mad at that at all.
and with that i’ll ask… are you a mentor, Champ? be the change you want to see buddy.
“…instead of breaking into a praise dance on Maury for not being the father, they MIGHT just be inspired to take responsibility and be proud.”
Hilarity.
+1
Well put.
“i want to be a respected and renowned author, but i don’t plan to develop any heavy drinking problems or a sex addiction or become a lesbian or marry five times or not shower for 37 days while i create some masterpiece. lol”
i’m glad you brought this up. this — the artist with demons thing — relates to what i’m talking to. considering all the famous artists who do have serious issues and skeletons they have to deal with, perhaps you do need to develop some of those issues in order to be a superstar. i think that the art and the demons and the struggle all come from the same place. you may not be able to have one without the other…kind of like jay-z’s ‘upstanding’ present and dirt-filled past.
yeah there is an overwhelming amount of beautiful and significant art that comes from dysfunction and pain… but i’m hoping to avoid that in the future. i think i’ve enough to go on. lol. take kanye… aside from his father not being around, that negro had regular everyday black folk problems, not “i grew up in the hood selling dope” problems. (and some would argue that an absent father is “regular,” sadly)
though i do believe a lot of the “greats” are extremely eclectic in personality, i don’t think EVERY artist has to have a tortured soul… it just makes for a good story when they do.
+2
” i want to be a respected and renowned author, but i don’t plan to develop any heavy drinking problems or a sex addiction or become a lesbian or marry five times or not shower for 37 days while i create some masterpiece. lol”
Thank you!
From thug to dedicated and loving family man has become some sort of ideal to aspire to now, instead of being a good guy from the get-go and not pulling all the bullshit that Jay-Z has pulled in his life. I guess you need time to sort your life out if you come from a bad environment, but I don’t think this is the narrative of Jay-Z’s life.
i was just thinking about that. if there was any other way for jay-z to be as successful as he is now without him “pulling all the bullsh*t.” probably not
There might be a correlation between men who bought Ace of Spade and men who need relationship and marriage role model. After selling us cheap champagne he can help us become good father.
how does ace of spade taste?
I don’t know it is marketed for the US,
I’m sorry this is just too much credit for one old man rapper who is too close to the age when he’ll start having to pop blue pills to keep up with his young hot wife. Jay Z is an old player at some point old players realize they have to settle down before they wash out. Jay Z had opportunity to establish his career, financial, and status dreams what else does have left than to settle down. I am not going to give him credit for changing the game for black men’s point of view towards marriage, fatherhood, and stable relationships. Influence like that lies much much closer to home than this culture wants to admit. Why are some groups of men more likely to marry and be possibly good husbands and fathers? Because they see there grandfathers, fathers, father fugures, and other positive male role models in close and tangible proximity in their lives doing the same. It’s not mainly because some super celebrity says its cool! What kind of mindless drone of a culture is that? Give black people and youth more credit than being zombified by rap lyrics and hip hop culture. “jay z say get wife. Must get wife.” That is, Unless you believe that conspiracy about subliminal mind control of the illuminati cult in music, movies, and media. The reason why young black men in America are failing to be good husbands and fathers in general is because there is virtually no commendable patriarchal hierarchy of influence in their lives. As much of they try mothers and grandmothers cannot teach young boys to be good men, husbands, and fathers the way fathers and grandfathers can.
“That is, Unless you believe that conspiracy about subliminal mind control of the illuminati cult in music, movies, and media. ”
i do. this is why i slept next to some goat cheese last night. wrote about the devil, so i need to protect myself from him
You have hit the nail on the head.
Sorry for the typos that I always realize I made in retrospect. It won’t let me edit.
Ironically, most of the statements I’ve heard about Jay-Z being a relationship role model have come from women.”
I think these women who say this mean he’s a role model now but not necessarily his past (although I do understand the two relate)
yeah, there’s some serious cognitive dissonance going on
I just want to point out that Jay, Will, and Barack are some of the most successful black men with children and Black wives. So, the whole Black men who are successful only date out does not hold here and does not hold as much as we think in general. I don’t think it’s going to have any particular repercussions on the marriage habits in the rest of the Black community but I think it’s interesting that folks don’t emphasize them and are quick to emphasize less relevant reality stars like Ice/Cocoa and Hank/Kendra.
“So, the whole Black men who are successful only date out does not hold here and does not hold as much as we think in general”
(clearing throat) http://verysmartbrothas.com/but-when-he-gets-on-hell-leave-your-ass-for-a-white-girl-or-not/
Thundergoat & Hova are role models for Black relationships?? Just because they’re married with kid? Really? Glad I missed that memo.
Billionaries aren’t role models since their lives are pretty much easy. Oh, Hova came up poor? That’s nice, have a cookie. That man hasn’t seen struggle in over 10 years. President Obama’s rich too? Yeah but he’s not going triple platinum rapping about he’s so called life of drug dealing & hoeing. (And whatever if it was record label that made him rap about “the hustle” He went that route, he owns it)
Naw, if my 20yrs old son said he looked to Hova as a role model, even for business sake, I sneak him. That’s not how he was raised, to look at over the top celebrities role models. So I’d think the kid was snoring lines or on some nonsense.
“Naw, if my 20yrs old son said he looked to Hova as a role model, even for business sake, I sneak him.”
you’d suckerpunch your own son??? LOL, damn.
Yes, Champ. I would suckerpunch my only son. He knows better & some times pain can be a healthy reminder.
*Pours YES syrup all over this article*
I love me some Jay-z (not so much his wife) but if he gets a free pass and is now appointed “husband and father of the year” then we need to be fair and crown all the ones of years past like….D.Wade, Swiss Beatz….ijs
is syrup a good or bad thing?
First, I gotta throw mad shade at the whole Jay-Z cancer-of-the-community thing. With his drug dealing and his (alleged) manwh0ring, he was a free individual in free association with other competent adults. I have no problem with someone taking drugs or sleeping with the dude that slept with half the state. The people involved are grown folk who need to be responsible for their own actions. Unless you want to tell me that Jay-Z was forcing kids to do drugs a la Joe Pesci in Michael Jackson’s Smooth Criminal video and/or raping women, IDGAF…and GTFOHWTBS.
Then again, if I ruled the world, crack would be sold next to the Newports at Walgreens, there would be legal brothels in every population center in America with services for adults of all orientations and sexual identities and people would be complaining that the Sam’s Choice weed makes them itchy…though they love the Ecstasy/condom specials at Wal-Mart. In other words, I’m a loud and proud cosmotarian. Take that for what it’s worth.
My legalize errthang beliefs aside, Jay-Z is the example of the dude who got his act together late in life. It’s not perfect, but he’s now a fully-functioning member of the community. I don’t see why it’s bad for him to turn his life around, especially when we have so many dude who could turn their life around instead of posting up on the corner for the rest of his life. For that, he needs to be applauded.
“I don’t see why it’s bad for him to turn his life around, especially when we have so many dude who could turn their life around instead of posting up on the corner for the rest of his life”
no one said that. just don’t tell me that he should be my relationship role model.
I’m not saying he should be your role model and, as someone said upthread, most respectable negroes aren’t checking for him as a role model anyway. That said, if the Jigga man doing tracks with his child and playing in the park with his wife and kids gets that dude on the block to finally wife up his girlfriend or gets a dude to establish a relationship with his young child, then it’s a definite positive. No one with sense would say it’s THE answer, but it is a significant help. The less hood dudes see it’s OK to just have kids all over the place and run in 947 different chicks raw, the better.
I don’t think only perfect people can be role models. If that was the case no one would be a role model. To say “don’t make this guy your role model because he was a monster in hist past life” goes against the spirit of growth and maturity. The “end result” if you will, is the goal, not necessarily the path.
I believe I understand your POV; most career centers will advise you to find someone who does what you want to do and find out what they did to get there. In this case that may not be the best idea and realistically, becoming a renowned rapper just ain’t gonna happen for 99.9% of kids that would even aspire to follow his path. But assuming the average kid has a modicum of good sense and parental direction, he/she should realize that the road to family life with isn’t drug dealing and rapping.
Although I think there is a more dangerous sentiment introduced by rappers like Jay-Z and even TI- the idea that one could sell drugs, commit numerous offenses, then rap about it, make some money and settle down in the suburbs. We need more stories about Boosie and BG to even everything out.
“Although I think there is a more dangerous sentiment introduced by rappers like Jay-Z and even TI- the idea that one could sell drugs, commit numerous offenses, then rap about it, make some money and settle down in the suburbs. We need more stories about Boosie and BG to even everything out.”
what happened to boosie? (btw, would you mind telling me who boosie is, too?0
Don’t act like you don’t know who Boosie bad a$$ is. LOL
http://www.ballerstatus.com/2011/11/29/lil-boosie-sentenced-to-eight-years-for-trying-to-smuggling-sizzurp-into-prison/
No…Not B-O-O-S-I-E-B-A-D-A-Z-Z (that’s he). I shall never request to be wiped down again
1.) light skin cats will never be black woman’s top pick, dark skin brothas rule the world, just facts and this is coming from a hot yellow dude. women will just settle with us cause all the chocolate brothas are gassing up them light bright women.
2.) I don’t really hear that often, the argument I seem to hear is that black women should give brothas trying to get on before the made it a chance casue they could be the next Barack. but it ain’t like dude was struggling or anything, nor was it like he wasn’t going to the top school in the nation, and guaranteed a high position with the elites.
other notes, all men are trying to do the Jay-Z plan of banging as many women as possible and then finding the diamond in the rough, or that one that will make them change. and women put up with it, and will continue to put up with it because thats just how it is. if anything women now believe that they can keep up with men when it comes to sleeping with lots of people.
where’s Yoles? I want some of that glittery stuff, a lap dance, or a flash of liz’s boobs, any will do
“…the argument I seem to hear is that black women should give brothas trying to get on before the made it a chance casue they could be the next Barack.”
I wonder how many women getting taken for everything they got thinking they’ve found the next Barack.
“…all men are trying to do the Jay-Z plan of banging as many women as possible and then finding the diamond in the rough…”
I agree; isn’t that what all men are doing anyway, all the time since the beginning of time?
°•.¸☆ ★ ☆¸.•°*”˜˜”*°•.¸☆
★ ★ ★
☆¸.•°*”˜˜”*°•.¸☆
★ WELCOME DRE ☆
♥￥☆★☆★☆￥♥ ★☆•°*”˜˜”*°•.¸☆
•°*”˜˜”*°•.¸☆ ★ ☆¸.•°*”˜˜”*°•.¸☆
please stay and continue to post
LMFAO @ the new commenter request
Right?! LOLOLOL!!!!!
I bet beyonce had to put up with a lot of bs to get to this point. But thats jus my theory. However, this role model thing is a bit reaching. We dont know what goes on behind the scenes and didnt many of us say the same thing about Will and Jada? If the idea is to hoe first and get it out of ur system and then marry, whose to say that u wont hoe during the marriage? Why not realize ur womans worth before then, grow up, and start holding urself accountable. I think people are looking at the end result and not what it took to get there
“Why not realize ur womans worth before then, grow up, and start holding urself accountable”
because that aint as fun
@Green Afro Diva
“Why not realize ur womans worth before then, grow up, and start holding urself accountable.”
This is my whole point. And it’s something that people never acknowledge. I see too many men and women like this. They want to hold themselves accountable when they run out of “wins” or it isn’t fun anymore.
…I agree with your first point (which will not copy for me and I refuse to type)…she’s probably still goin through crap now. I don’t doubt that her pregnancy was a ploy for him to lavish attention on her.
Based on her lyrics, Bey has some serious Pretty Girl Problems. And there relationship is far from perfect, or even ideal.
Look at her parents. Married for how long?? Think the affair that outted her dad to the public was the 1st? Doubt it. Think her mom didn’t know? Doubt it. Think she woulda divorced him if it didn’t heap loads of embarassment from the public? Doubt it.
Whatever dirt she was dealin with before the engagement, she’s still dealin with.
I have a feeling this post will be ripped to shreds like folks ripped poor (hilarious) Luvvie a new one for her anti-Kwanzaa post. Never underestimate the power black celebs wield over black folks…
*eats popcorn gif*
nah. cats realize that if you come at the king (me), you best not miss
I laughed through this whole article! You are saying stuff I have heard other grown ass men say. They’re watching women lose their minds and oohhh and awww over Jay Z and others of the same ilk. Many women are so disconnected from what they think they want and what the t.v. and radio tells them to want.
Cognitive dissonance when I see Oprah oohing and awing over JayZ and even interviewing him in her O magazine. Oprah and Gayle know they wouldn’t like it if Shelby dated or married a Jay-Z, come on now!
Even having said all that — men have the right to define themselves how they see fit — and men have much more currency in their critique of other men — and I hope women pay more attention to what other men they know and listen to say about a particular men who are in the public eye and those who are not.
“…and I hope women pay more attention to what other men they know and listen to say about a particular men who are in the public eye and those who are not.”
yeah, i agree. we (men) seem to be able to detect male BS much easier than women can. we might excuse or ignore it, but we always see it.
“These women fail to realize that they’re indirectly praising and promoting the type of behavior they abhor.”
this right here sums it up for me. i tweeted something similar last night. i’m tired of seeing tweets by women telling men to take note. really. women stay wanting to give out the father of the year award to rappers. first it was t.i. and now its jay-z. don’t be fooled by the end product, i.e.- what you see presented to you in media.
“this right here sums it up for me. i tweeted something similar last night. i’m tired of seeing tweets by women telling men to take note. ”
yeah. i think the push-back has more to do with “normal” cats getting offended when someone suggests they should model their love life after jay-z’s. it;’s like “do you really realize what you’re saying?”
“i’m tired of seeing tweets by women telling men to take note. really. ”
That’s just plain sad.
I really underestimated where this entire post was coming from. There are actually grown women talking about take notes???
Sigh…
I dont consider JayZ to be the example of a relationship and marriage role model. I am enjoying seeing what is in the media regarding both Jay and Beyonce having their first child. Its kind of nice to see a black couple’s first born celebrated around the world. That is all. I have never placed that much importance on a relationship and marriage role model since it was reported that Bill Cosby had a love child. I was totally devistated…of course I was blinded by thinking that Bill walked on water. I agree with several of the other comments stating we should all focus on what is going on in our own lives, relationships, etc. It’s not Jay’s responsibility to me or anyone else for that matter to be a role model for relationships/marriage except to his own seed/wife. It’s clearly unrealistic thinking on societies part. I believe we are looking for role models because we all agree that the current state of black relationships/marriage is in dire straights.
It’s not Jay’s responsibility to me or anyone else for that matter to be a role model for relationships/marriage except to his own seed/wife.
i agree
I admit it is fun to ooh and aww over the babies on BlackCelebKids.com because its where you can see many Black celebrities’ children. The children may remind you of your own child or the children in your family.
But the whole relationship role model thing assigned to celebrities who are remembered for their negative lyrics about relationships and women?
Man, man, man. Were you guys reading my mind when you wrote this?
Look, I like Jay-Z. His success as an entertainer should be commended. I do, however, have a huge issue with the assertion that just because someone is famous makes them a role model. That’s just insane.
We don’t know anything about Jay & Bey’s marriage beyond what their publicists want us to know. Making the assumption that they’re got some incredibly awesome marriage just because they’re smiling courtside at a Knicks game 3 times a week is just downright hilarious. Likewise, assuming that some guy is an awesome Dad because he shows up with his children occasionally on the red carpet is also hilarious. There’s so much more to what makes a marriage tick, or a child feel loved and whole.
Let’s face it, we don’t know anything about these folks or their capacity for parenting. Let’s not forget, this is the very same couple that for years (years!) pretended they weren’t even dating each other, let alone married.
If someone finds some motivation in this (or for that matter, the Obamas) to be a better father, or Lord knows, finally make their baby’s mother an honest woman, good for them. But I don’t think that’s how grown assed people (certainly not men) work. Most of us learn (good or bad) from the people we see most often. Our parents (or lack thereof). Our friends. Our peers.
If seeing occasional photo ops of a couple you’ll never meet is the motivation you need to get your sh*t together, then, let’s face it, your sh*t never gonna get together.
I will, however, admit I liked “Glory”. So there’s that.
‘I will, however, admit I liked “Glory”. So there’s that.”
did you listen to it again today? asking because it’s one of those songs you only listen to once
yeah i only listened to it once.
Here I agree. I listened to it yesterday and haven’t listened to it since, and don’t plan to listen to it anymore. It was nice though. When I have a kid, my song will be tighter, need for my beat to hit a little harder than what his was. LOL
Personally I do not consider Jay-Z as a “Role Model”…The only reason he did right by Beyonce is because of who she is, if she was a chicken-head he would not have married her or even pursued her as hard as he did. Show Business Babes get their propers, the rest of us are just ordinary women…
Once. And only once.
Let me clarify, I liked the CONCEPT of “Glory” more than the song. Sure, it’s an execise in self congratulatory nonsense (ie: “I has unprotected sex, and now there’s a baby! I’m so awesome!”) but I understand the sentiment.
When my wife and I had our first child, I was still dibbling and dabbling with FruityLoops. I went home from the hospital that night, laid down a track, updated the baby’s website with photos, uploaded the song, and spent the whole evening reveling in the congrats. It didn’t occur to me that my wife was actually still at the hospital, with the baby, all by herself, recovering from a C-Section.
Boy, did I get an earful when I finally showed up at 1pm the NEXT day. Classic dumb husband move that my wife didn’t let me forget (sorta still hasn’t). I definitely learned my lesson the next go round.
I say all this to say, I understand the Jigga Man’s elation as a first time parent. It is a pretty amazing feeling, and I don’t blame him for expressing it in the way he knows best (song). Even if it does come across as a little (ok, a LOT) self imprortant. Whatever.
Nothing like the birth of a baby to leave a new father floating that like lmao
I thought Glory was sweet in concept. But I take issue with him addressing his infant child in a song with cussing.
No one is perfect and everyone has a past. Your post made me think of Stanley “Tookie” Williams. This man won a Nobel prize and people asked that he be taken off of death row. After watching a documentary they featured on him, I thought “thank you for trying to reverse the devastation that you caused but you can’t fully right the wrongs of your past in the present.” We can’t escape our past, only learn from it and try to do better in the future. I agree with Mo-VSS in that we don’t know his life and it is possible that he didn’t do half of the things that he rapped about. However, what we do know is that he sold drugs and rapped about this for 15+ years acquiring a fortune and brand in the process. Your past does dictate how people perceive you in the present and this shouldn’t be overlooked.
Muze mentioned above that Jay is a role model for those kids that are “the young men who spread seed in ten different “baby mamas” and spend their mcdonald’s checks on jordans.” I agree with this. I can see how young kids who don’t have a figure to look up to can idolize Jay. We should just hope that they are looking at what he is doing now but we know that wont be the case for every kid that looks up to him.
Your post made me think of Stanley “Tookie” Williams. This man won a Nobel prize and people asked that he be taken off of death row. After watching a documentary they featured on him, I thought “thank you for trying to reverse the devastation that you caused but you can’t fully right the wrongs of your past in the present.”
are you suggesting that tookie shouldn’t have been on death row? because while i don’t believe in the death penalty, a person who was implicated in several murders and helped start a national crime organization is exactly the type of person who needs to be on it, regardless of how many children’s books he writes
I thought “thank you for trying to reverse the devastation that you caused but you can’t fully right the wrongs of your past in the present.” As in thanks for trying to change but you still need to pay for your crimes.
Well I’m in agreement with this post. It seems like by praising him we are glorifying his wh0ring and drug dealing past. It seems like it has moved past the point of just forgiving someone’s past or showing that anyone can turn their life around and gone to this is how it should be. I’m pretty sure a lot of guys would like to go the route or messing and screwing people over in my 20′s and 30′s and then finally settling down at 40. Sounds like a good deal to me. Why don’t we glorify and put someone up to exemplify that isn’t a dog.
when a woman like supahead can get married – we’ve moved into a whelm where people can/do/will look past a person’s past.
but again, that is a celebrity standard and not true in real life. that’s why anyone that actually hold celebs to be any type of role model is asking for trouble.
Hmmm. It’s interesting that most of the men who’ve commented seem to agree with my premise, while the woman are 50/50. I would have assumed it would be the other way around.
The other way around? Why?
You expected the men to agree more based on Jay-Z fandom and/or inspiration to become like him?
I think it is just the general notion that men tend to defend each other til the end, regardless of whether dude is right or wrong. Unfortunately the female cognitive dissonance and eternal optimism due to Disney flicks overpowered the guy code.
It’s interesting that most of the men who’ve commented seem to agree with my premise, while the woman are 50/50.
I actually thought this earlier and it turned out somewhat how I thought it would. I thought most of the guys would agree with you and most of the women would disagree.
Same here.
I like Jay-Z. I’m a big fan of his music. But I don’t consider him a relationship/marriage role model any more than I consider Steve Harvey to be a love/relationship expert. Neither could be farther from the truth….
ALL OF THIS.
Not sure I follow or agree with the logic here. I understand that neither man (Jay and Steve) could serve as role model or relationship expert (respectively) for you… nothing wrong with that… but saying that neither one of them are these things (i.e. couldn’t be further from the truth) eliminates the possibility that they could serve in these capacities for anybody.
I dont know much about Jay-z relationship past. What i do know is that he didnt (as far as i know) make meaningless commitments, he didnt have different ho’s in the limelight, he didnt have a shyt load of kids with baby momma’s all on tv fighting and shyt and when he did commit he went all in.
So,from that perspective I think he is a relationship role model. I think that is the way to do it, date, have fun and when you are ready settle down and be a freaking grown up and commit. .
I dont think this absolves him of his past but at the same time his past shouldnt negate any positive praise he is due.
I also hesitate to give him an extreme amount of praise, a good job jay is about what I thnk it is, nothing more or nothing less.
Meanwhile Will Smith is stilll tops in both Fatherhood, husband hood and songs about fatherhood. As someone said on twitter just the 2 of us >>>>>>>>>>>Glory.
Good write-up, Champ.
It is interesting to see how much we fawn over Jay finally settling down and playing the family role. But, I think the reason is because of that “finally.” I think folks — especially women — have a soft spot for the “changed man.” It’s why so many chicks are obsessed with changing one… to usually no avail. There’s a certain soft spot for mofos who DIRECTLY reject settling down and seeing them progress over the years, becoming exactly what they said they wouldn’t.
And yeah, unfortunately, this change did come DUE to the negative things, but I guess this becomes a question of: do the ends justify the means?
“do the ends justify the means?”
You know what’s funny… it often seems like the answer depends on whether or not you are the one implementing “the means” or suffering because of them. #Cha’mon
That was deep, homie. (TWSS)
but wait.
take out the drug dealing (for some), and isn’t this pretty much the life cycle of men anyways?
sow your wild oats in your younger days, work and establish a career, find the right woman at the right time and get married/have babies?
at least, from my understanding – this is what men are encouraged to do. the life cycle and what women are encouraged to do is not the same.
as for role modelling, i don’t know real people that look up to them – but from what we SEE on the SURFACE, it’s nice to see a man in love with his wife and smitten with his new daughter. i can attest to wanting the same. but i sure as hayle aint trying to emulate celebrities who are held to a different standard than most.
“take out the drug dealing (for some), and isn’t this pretty much the life cycle of men anyways?”
What?
Hell no.
ok…
Yeah it actually is. I mean you left out a part where the young dude has his heart broken and goes on a rampage. If it matters the vengeance motivation typically doesn’t last very long (because it can’t). Being angry requires energy. No my fine feathered friends, after awhile, just plain ol conqueror syndrome and the promise of variety and responsibility free sex “steers the boat.” #JudgeUs
lmao at your beginning response
wait. so you are saying minus a few things i left out because i aint a dude… that i’m right?
*cat daddies*
Well I don’t know if we are de facto encouraged to “run wild” but we do it because we can. But yeah at a high level, minus the illegal dirt, we pretty much “have fun” until we literally decide, “you know what? I don’t want this no mo’. This don’t move me”. We say it just like that – subject-verb disagreement and all. And then we start looking around for someone who is also tired of the “Flashing Lights”.
Despite what you all might believe, men do outgrow some things, we just don’t outgrow them as quickly (or with the same motivations) as you all. Well at least that’s what I think when I’m alone in my room… I sit stare at the wall…
…you take it from there.
Annnnnd KB summed it up. And then she hit her dougie… well, at least she did in my head.
LMFAOOOO.
we still do those in 2012?
have we come up with a new dance move yet?
no?
*dougies in real life to match cheekie’s imagination.
Hey, just out of curiosity, is there a special “Chair Dougie” that would be appropriate for a man in his mid to late 30′s to hit while at work? Looking for something with high yield, but low impact. Let me know. Thanks.
@ DQ
Hey, just out of curiosity, is there a special “Chair Dougie” that would be appropriate for a man in his mid to late 30′s to hit while at work? Looking for something with high yield, but low impact. Let me know. Thanks
No
however you can get double points for working round of applause and the clap clap into the workplace in any form
OMG, you haven’t lived til you’ve done a chair dougie at the plantation. Do better, DQ. I’m just sayin’…
LOL KB, that’s funny because I thought the same thing to myself while typing it. Like… does a dance craze go out of style only once another one has replaced it? Or does it just depend on time alone? Hmmmmmmm…. hmmm.
Thank you for being the voice of reason. I agree with this and the fact that many good women who have some sense of self worth don’t want to be an Emily…waiting on dude to get it together while he hos out of the game and finally comes on home. And I don’t even think that’s relevant to say in the case of Jay and Bey, but who knows.
Either way, this is what men are encouraged to do and I, for one, am not on it. You either get your sh*t together and we settle down or you keep it moving with whomever you choose, but it won’t be me. I don’t have the time, energy or patience to wait for some dude my age (early 30′s) to figure it out. If you haven’t by now…
Good post Champ. I agree. While dude was hustling and when “all the wavy light skin girls is lovin me now” dude wasnt straight. Everyone deserves a second chance and people do change. But when I see dudes like T.I. and Jay-Z get cosigned for being “role models” or the example to follow I get confused. There are guys that don’t have to wreak havoc, leave a trail of bodies, and collateral damage to get to the point they’re at now. Some of us have a code and don’t abide by that code at our own convenience. It’s like it’s ok to be a mofo and an @sshole as long as you aren’t one in the end. Today’s topic reminds me of a question that I still don’t have an answer to. That question is “can you really run away and totally avoid blow back from past behavior and actions?”. If a man or woman sh***ed on the opposite sex for 15-20 years and then change are they totally absolved from it? I’d like to think that it may affect them in some shape or form but sometimes I question if it does.
I think one of things being assumed here is that Jay-Z just did 15 years of dirt and now he’s settled down. First, this is hip hop, and hip hop is entertainment, and while he may have been involved in the drug trade, to what extent largely remains unclear and is probably wildly exaggerated. Do y’all really think Biggie was doing all the ish he was talking about in his music? And what about Pac? I think between those 2 of them they bodied like 100 people on wax. Let’s not believe everything we hear in rap
2nd why are we assuming thist dude did dirt and walked away with no battle scars? How do we know he hasn’t paid a price for his alleged activities? Most people do. It may very well be the consequences OF his dirt that makes his current relationship possible; because he learned from his mistakes.
THANK YOU!
SPOT ON CHAMP! People forget the years of dirt this man has done. He is NO role model. Lest we not forget the man slapped a female fan in his earlier years in broad daylight… THAT was someone else’s daughter. The egos on these people are HUGE and we support them with our hard earned money because they make music which makes us shake our behinds….
“Lest we not forget the man slapped a female fan in his earlier years in broad daylight… THAT was someone else’s daughter.”
And he had the balls to get mad at Chris Brown. Rightfully so, bro, but you hit a woman too. And didn’t Jay say in one song that she deserved it? smh.
this was a great post. I’ve been a fan of Jay’s music since 96 and while I love him, I don’t love him–if that makes sense. This is just like when folks get all swoon worthy over TI and his new family show and say how much of a great father he is and how he and Tiny’s relationship is a model–uhm FOR WHO?! lets not forget the man’s transgressions and everything he did to get to that point.
I’ll never knock progress (or in TI’s case that gorgeous smile, have mercy he is fine!) but I can’t sit here and pretend I’d want my future beau to have followed that similar path that he or Jay went down.
I respect the art, disregard the personal life path. Having said that…GLORY IS THE SWEETEST SONG EVER!
I ddn’t watch the video, but te title made me LOL…
Breakng: Witch Who Granted Beyonce Fame Returns to Claim Firstborn Child
http://www.theonion.com/video/breaking-witch-who-granted-beyonce-fame-returns-to,27002/
no, for reael. you shoud watch it. i’m still laughing.
they are so silly lol! Did you all see this one on the onion news- http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=84phU8of02U
(white woman tried as black man)
again, i will never understand all the negativity and judgemental attutudes that surround this couple. Not liking them or what they do or even what they’ve done causes them no stress and doesn’t break their banks in any way. It’s your pressure going up. Not theirs.
The song, adorable. Fatherhood has a way of turning even some of the most hardcore characters soft.
You bring up valid points about the life span of this popular rap mogul and I most certainly agree that in NO WAY, SHAPE OR FORM would he or his career progression ever be a role model for men. However, Jay’s only concern NOW is being the best role model for little baby Blue and I think he is getting off to a great start (from what I can see)!
LOVE this, thank you!!
“These women fail to realize that they’re indirectly praising and promoting the type of behavior they abhor.”
That’s what we do best. It’s called being idealistic. Also referred to as “the halo effect.”
Exactly.
I wonder if Blue will listen to her father’s albums, how will he explain 99 problems? Money Cash Hoes? I just wonder…
Yeah, most of those songs will be tough to explain his way out of. He can’t even use the classic “do as I say, not as i do” line for that. His daughter is gonna put him in the penalty box for that.
I’m not sure celeb role models exist anymore. No one’s really doing it right in the public eye (barring Barack) these days.
If men are trying to be like Jay-Z, I think what we’ll end up with is a bunch of disillusioned idiots and bitter life’s-not-fair, cry babies.
“I think what we’ll end up with is a bunch of disillusioned idiots and bitter life’s-not-fair, cry babies.”
lol and God knows we don’t need anymore of those!
First of all, who cares that these people just had a baby? Couples have babies daily, hourly, and by the minute. No one gives them an applause for their bundle of joy, and definitely dont applause the fathers who do what they are supposed to do. This man and woman are an abomination to this world and the people in it. They are idols, and people worship them. THIS IS A SIN! They want you to be exactly like them, thats why there is so much advertising about them and everything they do. Why do you think this man wants to be called Hova? As in Jehovah. He wants to be praised as a god cause in his mind he is a god and the same for his wife. Separate yourselves from the hype and stand alone, be different, dont fall for everything the media gives you. The music industry is being ran by satin himself, the choir director, the angel of music. Read your Bible people, know how to distinguish the difference between real and fake. I wish you all the best on this journey we call life…
Everyone has a past and we have all done things that we are not proud of. But at the end of the day, when you know better, you do better. I’m not saying Jay-Z should get a pass, he did some effed up stuff. At the end of the day, people can and do change and should not continually be vilified for their prior actions. He chronicled a lot of things in his music so people could learn from his mistakes. If somebody copied his path, they would be complete and utter fools, and wouldn’t make it anyway because that was his journey, no one else’s.
Here’s a sentence for you: IF HE HAS CHANGED. Change is not a matter of hope–or even hoping. Change is a matter of the deed in action, done–and redone, over and over again.
And sometimes it has to do with a woman who has so outclassed the man that for him to do anything stupid would forever brand him as certifiably crazy.
Sometimes it has to do with timing. Sometimes it has to do with the possibility being there all the time, and having everything come into play, in every sense to make it the only logical, sensible and right thing to do.
Role model? I think that word is cast around too much. I am my own role model. But admirable? YES. We should respect each other’s achievements, knowing the time, effort and skill that goes into each of our own.
So leave Jay-Z’s past where it belongs–in the past. And let’s be grateful that there is at least ONE …well there are FOUR –or FIVE black couples earning more than some countries combined, who are showing that stereotypes, in and of themselves , are utter CRAP.
And by the way, did you see this article on Huffington Post re. this Brazilian racist song about black women? The song is utterly nasty. I think you should go over there and say your piece. I’ve said mine: http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2012/01/06/natural-hair-racist-_n_1189068.html
Ciao, boys…
Brilliant post Champ! Imma just cut to the point – the black community has long had this problem where respectful, upstanding brothers get ignored whereas we put the miscreants and thugs on pedestals and then ask for a round of applause when they do SOMETHING right. And sisters, if you’re asking why there ain’t enough “good black men” out there, there’s basically your answer – where are the incentives for a young black boy to follow the harder right path and grow into a respectful man when the folks he sees getting idolized and all the attention are either sports figures or entertainers who boast about their thug beginnings and who openly disrespect women in their videos and music? It’s that old Chris Rock joke of how there’s a bigger celebration for a brother that gets out of jail versus a brother who gets out of college. In fact, if you’re the educated, respectful brother, you’re seen as “weak”. And what’s crazy about it is, you might not get the top shelf ladies being a “nice guy”, but you’re expected to “please help my son, he needs a good role model in his life” or “please help our community and get *ish done because the do-nothings ain’t doing it.” Heck, we’ll put a Jay Z on the front page if he showed up in the hood and gave out turkeys one day, but the dude that’s living in the hood day in and day out, working hard, trying to make things better for himself and others the right way, we ain’t got much to say about him. We have this huge celebration about Jay-Z having a kid by Bey, knowing dang well that it wouldn’t even have made the back pages if Beyonce had married a Neil Tyson de Grasse-type and was having his kid, the sort of cross-pollinating relationships between celebrity and intelligence that we NEED more of in our community. It’s a twisted and f-ed up living out of the whole prodigal son parable where there’s this overwhelming embrace for the sinner yet meanwhile to the guy who’s taking the straight and narrow, unless he’s making a whole lot of money, all he gets is “just keep doing what you doing son.” Why be the good brother and be saddled with all the baggage of responsibility and earn little respect when you can be a jack*ss and get covered with a whole lot of love when you do one thing right? That path one takes to success DOES matter – that’s what Champ’s getting at. That’s precisely why there ain’t enough “good brothers” out there.
Actually, I tend to think that the black community has not taken advantage enough of having positive folks like the Obamas to be role models, especially when it comes to relationships. Perhaps it’s my jaded perspective, I honestly don’t see enough sisters really looking at brothers as Baracks or brothers really looking at sisters as Michelles. As Champ noted, there’s a more negative interaction from it – “why can’t you find yourself a Barack” – than a positive interaction in terms of what we can learn from their experiences and implement in our relationships with each other. I see more of the “Think like a man, act like a woman” and “Sisters need to date white men” nonsense gaining far more attention and traction right now than I see any sort of honest, deep meaningful discussion as to how we cultivate more relationships like the Obamas. Granted those of us in this forum are probably the exception to the rule, but I doubt many folks even know the story of Barack and Michelle, how they met, how she didn’t want to date the brother because she thought it was inappropriate with he being a mere intern while she being a lawyer, how Barack at the time wasn’t a “made man”, how he was just another brother rocking a busted ride trying to move up in life. There probably would be no Barack Obama as we know him today if a Michelle Robinson hadn’t decided to give a brother a chance – that’s real. Sisters, you’ve got the power to make a brother, but you’ve got to use it right and exercise good judgment. Okay, he wasn’t just “any” brother and he had the promise of doing big things, but that likely wasn’t all apparent when she met him. What did she judge him on when she met him, what was she expecting in a potential mate, what were her prejudices/concerns at the time when she met him that turned out to be false alarms, what “mistakes” did he or she make when they first met – heck, I ain’t Essence or Ebony, but to me these are the sort of questions that need to be asked and the answers discussed if we’re gonna make any headway instead of this incessant parade of Thugnificent couples as example of “Black love.” There is way too much superficiality (the photoshoots, the “how did yall meet”, the “what yall do for the wedding”, etc.) and not enough substance in the discussion of black love. And yes, it can be just as much fun and entertaining while being educational and inspiring, much like the conversations we have here.
Anyhow, congrats to Blue Ivy and her parents and I wish them the best. And to all the VSBs and VSSs out there, much love and keep doing what you doing! LOL
They threw rocks at Jesus and hung him on the cross and he was perfect…soooo, nice bruhs being overlooked is just the way of the world. LOL
By the way, I take issue with the “nice guy” moniker because well, This —->http://verysmartbrothas.com/?s=bitter+man+blues
Ha ha… Ain’t that the truth! Nice bruhs have a long legacy of getting treated “real well” by the folks they’re trying to help.
Actually, I intended to avoid using the phrase “nice guy” while I was writing but then I thought, nothing else quite captures the sentiment I was aiming at, “bitter man blues” being a part of it. Indeed, it’s a nice guy seeing the praise and adulation being afforded a Jay Z while he has just got his genteel self recycled by a sistah that makes him have the bitter man blues.
Well hallelujah Yankee doodle….that about sums it up! I agree that the black community needs to focus on the positive role models that we have in the community – both men and women. And that people need to raise their standards and expectations when it comes to love. Michelle Obama clearly had standards and i am sure she is passing these on richer daughters. Just as we also need to instill these things in our children. Not Disney fairytales (Disney is the devil), but really help our children understand their worth and help them understand how to find a quality mate and not someone undeserving of their time and affections to fill the space.
Damn…Ethered. Nothing left but scorched earth!
I’m with you. I guess we’ve lowered expectations so much that we have to do like Chris Rock said and give them credit for something they’re supposed to do.
I’ve been doing it much longer and I promise you I don’t want any praise because I’m not done yet. I’ve only been married 11 years and our kid is only 7. Being a husband and a father are the best jobs on earth, but the work ain’t easy.
I’ll co-sign this thankyouvermuch!
MightyM,
I appreciate what you said.
Thank you A Woman’s Eyes – much appreciated.
I had NO IDEA that Jay Z and Beyonce’s relationship meant SO MUCH to people!!!
I also had NO IDEA people are now looking up to Jay Z as a role model…. who are these people anyway?
More people that we want to admit unfortunately. You got a whole generation of young boys and men who see this as the “ideal” of success – he hustled, didn’t work for the “the man”, didn’t go to school, made it through the rap game, ended up with the baddest chick in the game, and now she done had his baby. What’s not to love?
Now imagine trying to be the guidance counselor, the mentor, the teacher, the brother trying to counsel a young teenager or a classroom of them “Nah, kid. You need to ignore what you’re seeing plastered over the air waves, on the TV, on the radio, in the magazines, what all your friends even your parents are talking about. You need to be like me, work hard, study hard, do your homework, do well in school and that way you’ll have success. Yes, I don’t have me a bad b*tch like Beyonce… heck, real talk, I don’t even have a woman right now…and yes, I don’t have bank to throw at strippers at the club seeing that I gotta pay for my education, I work a 9-to-5 plus go to school after hours, I drive a Honda Civic….see kid, you need to be like me, a decent, upstanding citizen contributing to society! Choose my broke do-gooding azz as your role model, son!” How effective do you think that pitch is gonna work? Call it hatin’ if ya want but for every Jay Z, there is a hundred-plus “good/nice/weak/whatever you wanna call us” brothers having to remedy the REAL effects of the attitudes and situations that the Jay Zs of this world breed. Heck, I ain’t even got to make this *ish up, we got a nation-wide organization for it called “100 Black Men” whose expressive purpose is to help undo the whole lot of f*ckery caused by ignant ninjas. And what’s hilarious, the very people fanatically embracing this Jay-Bey pageantry are some of the first to complain how Barack Obama – one guy – ain’t doing enough for black people. Yes, you voted for Barack Obama and expect him to change the world (you didn’t just start having to pay taxes when Obama got elected so the “I pay taxes” attitude is invalid), however you go out and spend YOUR hard-earned money buying their music, buying their clothes, going to see them in concert and your great expectation of them is that they have a baby in wedlock… and maybe be faithful to each other?!?! Oh, and to trick off a few turkeys in the hood on Thanksgiving. Aiming HIGH I tell ya. Heck, they probably gonna get paid even more just for birthing a baby, what with all the magazine articles and photo-shoots to come out that YOU’RE going to buy. That’s a good hustle if you ask me!
Meanwhile, we gotta come to sites like VSB to get fun, respectful convo flowing between black boys and black girls ’cause _decades_ of listening to “99 problems and a b*tch ain’t one” type music done got a whole lot of us salty with each other. Such is life.
Great comment. Loved it! Casting my vote for you to be a leader in the NGFF movement…..nice guys finish first
Dropping that knowledge on ‘em.
Yep!
Wow, my dude. Well said.
First let me say that one if the reasons I love women is that they will attempt to provide hope and a very smart point of view even when you should have none. And there is some of that going on here.
I think Jay did it the way a lot of men envy/should.
He enjoyed his live without the anchor that is a wife until he got to a point in his life/career when it was a benefit to have one. After all, you cant be a reformed thug/none Ivy grad AND single sitting next to Buffet and the President.
And if you think he spent the 90s, and 00s not sticking the tip into any and everything he choose you are a real romantic. I mean BIG PIMPIN and IS THAT YOUR 8ITCH folks. Come on! And I say that with a salute, not salt. As long as he left no kids laying around I dont see anything wrong with any man or woman in 2012 living that liberally. Especially with the sweet smell of success attached to them.
Women like Jay-Z. And I think many want him to become Cliff Huxtable because it validates some of the things they find attractive but would not want to attach themselves to with out money and success. Society and women will forgive/overlook all of your wrong doings and short comings IF you have a combination of money, influence, and power/celebrity. You could co-sign the killing of millions, sedate their hoods, you can even be a dealer of great levels of woman-hate. You could be straight from Jerkville. You could hit a woman even (as he did while still going at Chris Brown). No matter. Success.
In the case of the the reformed thug it is simple: women find the attitude/charm/swag that comes with it sexy and worth being dangerously in love. Throw some money on it and nothing about his past matters. Beyonce marrying him, their rubbing shoulders with the Obamas and Oprah and Buffet, and having a child he loves makes any fantasy about a soldier (I mean she sang about for goodness sake) a little less cringe worthy.
And despite the best efforts of some of the brilliant women here and as much as we intellectualize it young men will not look at the end (“Happily” married with a kid and a dog) as something separate from the means (drug selling, death-dealing, bullying, sexist thinking and rapping AND still marrying a woman from a 2 fam home with NO street cred/ Hoodrat pedigree) without a lot of help.
“Dont follow ME youngin follow MY MOVES/ Im nont a role model!”
-Jay-Z
I fee like their is a bit of revisionist history in the black community. Call it nostalgia – which I am convinced is
I like how people are calling out the elephants in the room. Thank you for putting those points on the table.
You have entirely to much time on yours hands, why do people like you put so much time and energy into doing your best to degrade another persons success, you are a hater!!!! every one has different paths in life, and some people have done things that they are not proud of to get to where they are now…but if they didnt take the path they took they wouldnt be where they are now…You live and you learn…you make mistakes and learn from them point blank…Jay-Z is one the biggest success stories of our time but yet you still have to find some way to hate on him and how he got his success..gtfoh man!!! Look where he is now and look where you are, and ask yourself, who’s got it better ? you or him? #Justsayn…Stop hating and being hella judgemental…Let god do the Judging…fall back homie…your doing to much!!! ..
Jay Z is like most men, or even women for that matter, do their dirt, experience their life when they’re young and when they grow up & mature, then real things become important. To say that young men would have to follow in those exact footsteps is over doing it. They can look at him and say, damn, he did do abc&d, but look at where he is now. So if the young men are out there f’n up, they know its not something they have to do for the rest of there lives. What ways in your young days you don’t do anymore because you’ve matured?
The Champ…damn. Sometimes you’re so right it hurts.
Great post, but you failed to touch on the dynamics of the actual relationship people are praising him for. He dated Beyonce for years before they actually decided to get married doing all kinds of dirt, including having a side relationship with Rihanna. Stated by Beyonce herself on many occasions, it is well-known that she has low self-esteem, and even though she is one of the most sought after women in the industry, she was still willing to put up with all Jay Z’s dirt. Now that’s just textbook psychology right there. Currently their relationship is great, but listening to the lyrics of Beyonce’s “love on top” saying that he FINALLY put her first does not tell me that the relationship has been happy or healthy for majority of their time together. So a role model, I think not. As a young woman, I’m sorry I don’t want to be successful, but yet be subjected to putting up with a man’s bullshit for a full decade before I can say I’m ecstatically happy. The average time to build a relationship to its full potential and make it exceedingly healthy is about 3-5 years, not 10 so he’s well below average. As a woman of Beyonce’s success and other women who are successful, I believe that they should find men are great at getting the task done of making a healthy relationship, and for Jay Z being so far below average, I can’t see him as a role model for a good husband. Sorry.
Should he be lauded as *THE* relationship and marriage model – NO. But I don’t have a problem acknowledging that – from what I can tell – he has *grown* into a loving father and husband and, more or less, upright man. I’m echoing some of the earlier comments that I read btw. And, regarding the question of whether he should be praised for simply doing what he should be doing, unfortunately – good, bad, or indifferent, and considering that the stereotypical negative may be blown out of proportion – it is helpful to highlight him as said example. Now I have also heard the rumors about other children. If it’s true that he has other little ones out there that he is not acknowledging it would be wrong and a shame for him to continue to ignore them – especially after (understandably) gushing over lil’ B. … I. C.
Hmmm, Jay-Z was a cancer to the community?
Which community exactly? The black bourgeois intellectual or the black ghetto community?
Many times I read these articles about musicians, who a lot of self-identified black intellectuals believe have so much power, and so much influence, that just by saying N*gga, they can brainwash millions of young men and women into saying N*gga. It’s kind of funny how little respect black these intellectuals show to the intellect of other black men and black women in our community who enjoy people like Jay-Z. I mean are we that dependent on media stars, and charismatic musicians that we have no independent thought or can’t come to conclusions on our own?
I mean what man, given Jay-Z’s opportunities or his life, wouldn’t have “felt” the same feelings being portrayed in songs like “Big Pimpin’”, “99 problems but a Bitch ain’t one”, “Girls, Girls, Girls.” Which man has never wanted “Girls all over the world”? Yet, the utterance of such a statement, warrants you a cancer? Or perhaps it is the violence that he rapped about, that we see in the media everyday, that thousands of black people participate it and suffer from – but let me guess he glorified it and that makes him a cancer? If that’s the case, he is just a small part of a bigger cancer that exists in the entire community, isn’t he, because obviously people glorify violence in the community as well, they just don’t have their own brand of clothes.
Nah what really makes Jay-Z a cancer, to pseudo-intellecuals, is that he had power and influence and he didn’t use it for what they would use it for. Had they had the influence Jay-Z had, they would have been able to pursue all their lofty ideas and move towards the creation of a black utopia. However, they don’t have the skills or the talent to do that so they request that Jay-Z because he is successful and wealthy, use his power and influence to do all their work for them…and yet what have these people ever offered Jay-Z…???
Well, I can’t (won’t even try to) speak for all women but I will never await that day my guy/significant other/husband refers to me as a b*&^% in a song/conversation (and this refers to the older Jay). Nope. I will go out on a limb here but I don’t think Michelle would either. If I had to choose, I’d pick an Obama-type over the other type. And no, it’s not because he’s light skinned but he obviously has a greater respect for women-whether he’s married or single.
Is it okay if he says it while having sex?
I agree with a lot of things in this post (no comment to Jay-Z being the greatest rapper of all time though). I also think it’s the idolizing and worship of these celebs that has a lot of women’s heads up, thinking that all men are like this. That’s why a lot of good black men get passed over. Women sit up and look at shows like RHOA, BBW, and L&HH and try to emulate what they see in those fantasy worlds. “I want a relationship like Jay & Bey!” Do you know what their relationship consists of? Do you know what they’ve had to endure, hide, or turn a blind eye to in order to maintain the image that you see on blogs, TV, and magazines? A lot of y’all need to wake the fuck up and get back to reality. And on the note of fatherhood, there are plenty of good fathers out there taking care of their kids. Not someone, who paid off his first child’s mother just so he wouldn’t have to see her. Guys in your churches, neighborhoods, schools and family who should be celebrated. But I guess they are just too regular. And if you need a fatherhood anthem, listen to Stevie Wonder’s “Isn’t She Lovely” or Will Smith’s “Just The Two of Us.”
sad part is, this applies to ‘regular’ relationships as well. people see their friends with their significant others and say ‘I want a relationship like that’, having no clue what goes on in that relationship. its what makes me worry that people are more concerned about the appearances associated with relationships instead of what it takes to actually be in one.
” I also think it’s the idolizing and worship of these celebs that has a lot of women’s heads up, thinking that all men are like this. That’s why a lot of good black men get passed over. Women sit up and look at shows like RHOA, BBW, and L&HH and try to emulate what they see in those fantasy worlds. “I want a relationship like Jay & Bey!” Do you know what their relationship consists of? Do you know what they’ve had to endure, hide, or turn a blind eye to in order to maintain the image that you see on blogs, TV, and magazines? A lot of y’all need to wake the fuck up and get back to reality.”
Thank you!
I haven’t personally heard any women proclaim Jay as a relationship role model, but it does not surprise me. I remember reading a story where Jay-Z himself said he was at a party for the release of his book, and at the party they were projecting lyrics from his songs on the wall & on the floor. He said seeing the lyrics to Big Pimpin’ in print really made him take a second look at himself and he couldn’t even believe that he said all that degrading stuff when he was younger. Like the end of this entry says, I don’t even think Jay-Z would want anyone to look at him as some type of relationship expert.
I wouldn’t call Jay an opportunist. And instead of becoming a product of his environment he turned his life around. He’s in a good place and he promotes different ideas now than he has previously regarding women. Also, part of the hip hop culture the belittling of women. It exists. Should Jay apologize for being a part of it? Shit, he might. He has a daughter now.
Jay is human and maybe he will inspire others who don’t know how to be family oriented to give it a try.
I wouldn’t call you a hater, but this post is just hella negative LOL
I concur whole-heartedly. In general, it’s dangerous to make any celebrity of any sort a paragon of family values because 1) we don’t actually know who these people are when they exit stage left and 2) when you couple this evaluation with the double-edged sword of the pedestal we tend to place them on, a LOT of things get swept under the rug, including decades of questionable behavior. Many people seem to mistake incredible and innate artistic creativity and talent for character. It is not. These things can be and far too often are mutually exclusive. Carter is a great many things, but an icon of spousal and paternal perfection ain’t one. Also, as he’s been a father for less than 72 hours (that we know of), I don’t think 1 song qualifies him as a good father. The verdict on that will be decided approximately 2 decades from now.
The article struck a nerve with me. Im from Philly and criticizing Jay-Z around some Philly/NYC folk can be hazardous. Folks may not admit it but many look to him as a role model. I dont. I can respect his artistic skills and not like what he represents and how he advances. (I feel the same way about AI.)
Today, we dont see ourselves in relationship to others. We are islands. The sad thing is when this thinking goes to the extreme, there is no concern for how our past COULD have been different and how we could have helped others. The attitude is everyone else is a speed bump toward my success. People think having regrets is a bad thing. It just shows we are human and may have hurt people in the past that we woudnt hurt now. Im not asking Jay-Z to fall on the couch and admit anything but if he believes in karma, he is in trouble.
I keep him far from my children. There are too many people in this world who justify their actions in the name of greed.
ummm…am I the only one that doesn’t consider Obama light-skinned AT ALL. He is a regular, unremarkable brown in person, when his images aren’t being lightened to make folks feel less threatened. Thus, I’d have to say that O can’t be the marker for light-skinned men coming back into style unless we broaden the spectrum of light-skin to include everyone but Djimon lol
Agreed. LOL. Since I use Photoshop, I understand the possible confusion. Its hard to know what black folks in the media really look like. I was thrown for a loop in the 2000s when I was thumbing through Ebony. I saw this woman who was doing exercises. I thought it was Ebony’s usual ‘How to Exercise’ article. Turns out, it was Halle Berry. She was very light and I guess I thought she was brown skin.
Minus the profane way of expressing it, this was very refreshing. People should be held accountable for the moral blight they impose on whole generations… not just lauded for a seeming change after the damage has already been done.
You are absolutely DEAD ON correct in your assessment! You ARE a smart brother
This article is fill up shit, let that man live his life! Asshole!
full*
Heyyy, I didn’t know this article came from here. I just saw it on Sol-Fusion’s site. (http://sol-fusion.com/sf/?p=1648) Really good stuff!! I don’t think we should bash Jay-Z for not being the best role model in his early years. Nor do I think we should place him in a pedestal merely for being faithfully married to Beyonce. But I do think people can change, and learn from mistakes. Is Jay-Z one of those people? We’ll never really know.
Like your work!
I think there are way to many assumptions being made on here. Men doing what they are put on God’s green earth to do…..Men dicking around til they are 40-45 & then marrying a 24 year old. Who says that a man is SUPPOSED to have kids in his 20′s, be married in his 20′s, etc.? maybe he doesn’t want to. Or maybe he does want to and hasn’t found a woman that he is willing to commit his life to….Why is that rarely ever a possibility when speaking on relationships. Just because a woman is ready to be married, it doesn’t mean she’s ready for marriage. I commend a brother or sister who knows what THEY want as opposed to what the majority think they should be doing. If a man decides to have children and a wife later in life, it doesn’t necessarily mean he was no good in his younger years. Maybe he’s been ready or maybe he’s just now become ready, Either way…so? That’s his choice. He’s not a failure/dog/womanizer just because he followed his own path. The abundance of assumptions don’t do any of us any good when navigating relationships.
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Yes, way too many assumptions being made here. The man is in h is 40′s now, things change and people grow up. I don’t get the negative tone here.