As is the case with most celebrity news that has absolutely no impact on my life (and by “most celebrity news that has absolutely no impact on my life” I mean “all celebrity news“), the tone of the conversations sparked by Frank Ocean’s “coming out” have proven to be more interesting than the news itself.
For instance, a quick glance at some of the comments sections attached to the articles discussing Ocean last week shows discussions diverging into numerous sub-topics more about Frank Oceanâ„¢ than Frank Ocean. Some of these peripheral conversations were semantics-based (“Since Ocean isn’t a rapper, can he really be considered to be the first known African-American male hip-hop artist to come out?“), some dubious (“It’s interesting that this news breaks a week before his album drops“), and some questioning the story’s relevance (i.e.: “Wait. Who the hell is Frank Ocean, and why should I care about him coming out?“)
To me, though, the most interesting Ocean-related tangent has to do with how his “coming out” has been a virtual Rorschach test for our feelings about sex and sexuality. There aren’t many people who wouldn’t consider a man who has exclusively dated and slept with men for his entire adult life to be gay. But, when things aren’t as cut and dry — and, with Ocean, they’re definitely not — there seems to be more questions about appropriate labels — and the appropriateness of even having a label — than answers.
If the presence of male-on-male sex is your way of measuring whether a man is gay, how would you describe a man who claimed to have fallen in love with another man if they never actually had sex with each other? What if this man was the only man he felt this way about? Basically, what if he wasn’t into men at all but just one particular man? What if he was a teenager when this all happened?
Now, the paragraph above is obviously a not-so-veiled reference to Frank Ocean’s Tumblr post, and I’ve obviously made a few leaps with my interpretation of its content. All I (and anyone else outside of his sphere of influence) know for certain is that he stated that he fell in love with a man when he was 19. Everything else is speculation.
Yet, in Ocean’s case — and in the case of many others — our (and “our” in this case is “Black people’s”) definition of what makes a man gay seems to be amorphous, continually shifting to encompass any behavior outside of what we consider to be the hyper-hetero norm. Fell in love with a man? Gay! Not currently sleeping with multiple women? Gay! Enjoys it when a woman stimulates his anus during sex? Lives in Atlanta? Gay! Not into sports? Gay! Advocates for gay rights? Gay! Enjoyed “Dreamgirls?” Gay! Named “Tyler Perry?” Gay! Wrote a blog critiquing the criteria used to determine what’s gay? Gay!
You know, you can argue that, when it comes to men, the way we come to define “gay” and “straight” (intentionally leaving out bisexual because, well, the Council of Determining Gayness has ruled that bisexual men officially can’t and therefore don’t exist) isn’t at all dissimilar to how we define Black and White. Basically, just as one drop of Black blood makes a person Black, one “non-straight” act or thought makes a man forever gay. Is Frank Ocean in fact gay? I don’t know. I do know, though, that the presence of “one drop” might not be enough for us to make that determination.
—Damon Young (aka “The Champ”)
Frank Ocean is not gay, he has not told the public anything about his sexual orientation.
This statement is in conflict with itself.
FO shared his feelings for another man. He denies nothing, he divulged much.
I love the tone of this article, but sexuality isn’t black and white or on one side of the scale.
I think people need to abandon their need to label others. Self-identify and move on.
Where’s the conflict? It’s a fact that Frank Ocean didn’t identify with anything. I don’t have a problem either way. I said on the other Frank Ocean post that I hope he makes songs for the Queer brown boys who never get anything aimed at them.
We are in agreement about this obsession with labels. It’s especially ironic that the people who constantly invent these new ones are the most inclined to hate labels, but they can’t help but to boil down their complexities into a handful of catch-all terms.
I think Frank Ocean is a great artist, but has anyone heard his song titled, “Forrest Gump”? That says enough..
Oh man that song is almost as gay as Liberace
“I think people need to abandon their need to label others. Self-identify and move on.”
nothing wrong with a little labeling now and then. makes things easier
Absolutely….that’s like “I’ve slept w a few guys in the 00′s but I’m not gay. I’m not into labels”. No, ur gay.
Hi Malik. If Frank didnt “pick” or revela anything, then the statement “he is not gay” cant be true either. He didnt wave the straight flag.
I think most people default to “straight” unless proven otherwise, and thats not the case.
Champ, people never label a little. Have you ever seen anyone go mad with a label maker?! Once they start, they never stop.
“Champ, people never label a little. Have you ever seen anyone go mad with a label maker?! Once they start, they never stop.”
so labels are like lays? (or is it pringles?)
Both
Lays – You can’t eat just one.
Pringles – Once you pop, you can’t stop.
They both apply.
#fatgirlpost
I’m going to agree that labels do make things easier. Im going to make the analogy that labels are similar to scientific equations like the ideal gas law (PV=nRT). There is some error with the expected and reality when using this equation. However, the approximation is still pretty good and makes our understanding of the natural world easier.
I definitely agree that we are quick to assign labels to people. I think in the case of Frank Ocean, whatever label we chose to assign to him or he assigns to himself should he ever clarify his sexual orientation plays a secondary role in my opinion to the fact that he might be the first black person kinda associated with hip-hop that has admitted to be somewhat fluid with his sexuality. I m sure there are probably loads of black men out there that have been in love with a man, kissed a man or even slept with a man but would rather take this secret to the grave than admit it. That’s what impresses me about the FO story, he admits to having being in love with a man, that in itself is one small step for FO and one giant step for a more sexually fluid image of the black man.
uhmmm. listen to his song thinking about u his eyes bawl for a boy be serious
It sounds like he admits he’s been in love with men, but doesn’t want to out himself in a ‘gay box’ so to speak. As a society we’re so quick to want to label people. Unless you’re dating him, let him be. My 2cs
“It sounds like he admits he’s been in love with men, but doesn’t want to out himself in a ‘gay box’ so to speak.”
men or a man?
Yes.
Absolutely correct. I wrote a similar piece last week. The story is both more complex and simpler than assuming Frank Ocean is gay. His story does give us room to have more progressive discussions about sexuality though. Which is a good thing.
“His story does give us room to have more progressive discussions about sexuality though. Which is a good thing.”
i agree, but I’m not sure that a lot of people want to have those disucssions
I think it’s easier to accept that a woman can be in love with another woman and not be gay (whether or not there’s been sexual contact) than it is that a man can be. But in my honest opinion, a person who can take it all the way there with a person of the same sex is in fact a gay person, regardless of gender, regardless of how often or how rarely it’s happened that fact remains. I’m one who does not believe in bisexuality. You either are or you are not. Having relations with both does not prove anything but that you are horny. I’ve been attracted to women before, there have been times I’ve seen a chick out and about and said damn that’s a bad chick but in the grand scheme of things, every time I’ve come face to face with possibly furthering the attraction I realize (sometimes a little too late unfortunately) that I’m not sexually attracted to any woman. That extra umph to make me want to keep going just isn’t there and believe me I’ve tried smh (I’m nothing if not persistant). So yes, you can be attracted to and perhaps even fashion yourself “in love” with a person of the same gender and not be gay but when you take it to the next level you become gay whether you want to believe it or admit it to yourself or not.
How does being bisexual (attracted to both men and women) prove your sexual prowess. Bisexual is not synonymous with promiscuous.
I think people who do not understand sexuality as a fluid concept are defensive of “traditional” relationship boundaries. “Choose one! ” Bisexual people make a singular, monogamous choice all the time.
Also, debating and exploring your sexuality (becoming gay is not a thing) should be an ongoing practice, even for people who side with 1 or 10 on the Kinsey scale.
Because in Frank’s case (among others) is that if he is attracted to both that makes him bisexual. I, personally, am of the belief that you can not be bisexual. Call it experience from friends/family members who use that as an excuse to play the field in whichever direction they choose but that is my personal belief. Every woman that I know who has called herself that has leaned towards women when intoxicated but has always ended right back with men when it comes to long term relationships or after they’ve gotten through that awkward growing up period we all go through. Likewise, every man that I’ve known who’s called himself bi, has always ended up with men after going through a “phase” with women usually before coming out the closet fully. We all have to assess our sexuality and I think if every one looks deep down they will find that they may have been “in love” (likely simple infatuation with a person of the same sex. I just think that what you do with that infatuation that determines your sexuality. But again that’s just my opinion
I love love love that this idea of not “believing†in bisexuality still exists and that people still feel compelled to express this out loud in public. The gender and sexuality police are working around the clock to rule out folks’ emotions.
@Loving Me who are you to declare that sexuality is black and white? Who are you to establish the parameters of another person’s sexuality, setting the line over which one falls on one side or another? Because that happened to you has nothing to do with the next questioning/curious person’s journey.
No one but myself, but then again who are you to tell me that I’m wrong. Every single person believes what they believe and you can’t change my mind any more than I’m capable of changing yours. I didn’t condemn and I’m not hateful but that doesn’t change how I feel and believe on the topic either
@Chris. Yes and thank you! One minor post it, bisexuality is not always a waystation for sexual decision making. It can be the final stop and statement, “I enjoy women and men.”
As a bisexual woman, I can say that I am decided on the points of each sex that I enjoy and dislike, but I am willing to commit to any PERSON who fits my needs. No confusion here!
*Turns on “Pyrite”*
“I think people who do not understand sexuality as a fluid concept are defensive of “traditional†relationship boundaries. “Choose one! †Bisexual people make a singular, monogamous choice all the time.”
AGREE. Many people still have this attitude where you are either this or that and no in between. The problem is that during the course of discovering oneself, there will be an in between ALWAYS until that person chooses to describe for themself what/who they are. We have to stop placing people in a box!
That sounds great on paper but in actual reality it doesn’t work that way. Despite your best efforts, everyone is placed in some type of box. Everyone has to make choices to put them in this category or the other. Yes it would be great to be able to straddle the fences of every topic and say that you won’t be defined or constrained by society’s need to categorize and place people accordingly but it doesn’t change the fact that one way or another it’s something that happens to everyone. You can’t live life living in the inbetween. Every one of us must make choices as to how we define ourselves. It’s a part of life. And one category is not necessarily better or worse, but we all have to choose at some point in time
What if I choose and that box is expired? I ask because at the post office they no longer have the colored section, and now I’m lost.
“You can’t live life living in the inbetween. ” At some point it is neccessary. It isnt constant but in betweens happen. And in between phases and riding the fence i think we can conclude are 2 different things.Its like hot and cold. warm and cool would be the in between. depending on the condition to go from hot to cold the warm or the cool would have to be experienced as well. No, life is not all gray areas but it isnt only black and white either.
Looks like 99%of animals are smarter than a large number of humans when it comes to sexuality. They even know and obey the laws of biology. You may get feelings but at somepoint logic should kick in and say “this ain’t natural” if it dont its a psychological issue. Because your going against biology. You dont have to give in to every feeling and emotion. Its a choice.
It looks like animals are smarter than humans when it comes to sex. Even they know a penis dont go here, it goes there. And if “bi” men. Were honest with everybody besides there selves, the decision would be made for them. What female u know will be with a switch hitter. I have a theory that being gay IS a form of psychological submission as in the animal kingdom. You. Admit that I ain’t shot because that goes against the human biology, and nobody can argue with that. Some of yall to smart for your own good.
Thai. And an AGREE right back at you! the OP notes that bisexual titles are used as an excuse to “play the field”. Which field? The dating field? And why are excuses needed to find the best fit for yourself?
It is a mistake to deny that bisexuality is an identity. It’s as bold as me saying there is no biracial, there is only black or white. Clearly that is not the case whether I believe it or not.
It is a culture, it takes people time,effort and emotion to explore their full selves and it’s poor form to look at a community of people and say, “nope”.
“It is a mistake to deny that bisexuality is an identity. It’s as bold as me saying there is no biracial, there is only black or white. Clearly that is not the case whether I believe it or not.”
EXACTLY. And that time, emotion, and effort would be…the in between no? This is why we go through phases. And we do place ppl in boxes we are all guilty but we shouldn then force or expect that person to climb into that box because of our perception of THEIR situation/experience
Hello! Promiscuity is what bisexuals are. LOL do you even know what that word means? The same word defines anyone who has sex with more than one partner. (Which includes most of mandkind) I thought Frank Ocean was a singer/songwriter. Why is he even mentioning his sexuality anyway?! If he wants to advocate for a centain group other than musicians then find another type of employment. If not shut up and make music! I never mention what my sex preference is because it’s not needed. If he wants to write music for same sex partners who cares! If you don’t like it don’t buy it! Frank…can we just get the party started? Love the music brah!!!!
This is objectively wrong.
Which part?
Sexual orientation isn’t up for discussion. People have been bisexual in every single society since the dawn of man. It’s not up for debate or personal preference. Someone people are attracted to two genders. There isn’t any picking sides involved. That’s like something that once you’re in a relationship with say Dave Barber, you orientation doesn’t change to Dave Barber-uality. You can still attracted to other men or women and so on. Orientation isn’t based on who you’re with. If it was, then everyone who is single is asexual.
OMG! will someone give this man his effin gold star please? Cause he just restored my faith in humanity that we do in fact have the ability to be rationale, thoughtful, and downright scientific in our thinking and analyzing BEFORE we speak. I was a lil concerned after summa what I read when we talked about Mr. O last week!
YES. This >>> “Orientation isn’t based on who you’re with. If it was, then everyone who is single is asexual. ”
I’m posting this on my wall. Made my day!!
“Orientation isn’t based on who you’re with. If it was, then everyone who is single is asexual.”
i want to agree with this. but, i also think that a person who has nothing but same sex partners — even if they’re “straight” in mind and spirit — is gay. when it comes to determining orientation, who you choose to sleep with does matter
If you say that wouldn’t that mean the act of sex determines sexuality. I have to agree with Malik that the act of sex or who you chose to be in a relationship does not define your sexuality. Sexuality, in my mind, is defined by who you are sexually attracted to not who you sleep with. For instance a person, not asexual, who’s never had sex or been in a relationship with anyone falls on the sexuality spectrum somewhere. If we define sexuality but the act of sex we limit or box individuals into categories that may or may not be appropriate.
Oh well since you don’t believe in bisexuality then it must not exist. Except there’s one major problem with that logic…ME! ^_^
And that could be true for you, I can’t deny what you feel or how you define yourself. But again for me, based on my experience, it’s not a reality. It’s a fantasy where you can have the best of both worlds and never have to choose, but unfortunately at some point in life we all have to ultimately make a choice. It’s just how it goes. Maybe I’m wrong but I can’t speak for others I can only speak on what I feel and believe until life proves me wrong. So far it hasn’t
Now I’m so sure if someone said that your own sexuality were a choice hellfire would rain down and the earth would crack. What makes you think you’re so special that only monosexuals were born and anything else is a conscious choice?
GREAT question.
Biology. And psychology seems to have made the choice. Wouldn’t you have to trick yourself into thinking anal feels good?. Because my guess is that it just feels wrong off the bat.(no pun intended). Its a choice. And with all the feelings we experience in a day, dont we have a choice which ones we express? If we were to act on all our fellings where would we be? What Im saying is that people should have a certain amount of self control. And if that dont work,biology will tell y
Biology will tell you and has made the choice. We dont have to give into every feeling we have. If we did we’d all be dead jail unemployed or other uncomfortable places. We all show some self control everyday. Wouldn’t you have to trick yourself into thinking a n 0 l feels good because your body would immediately say this ain’t right.
The way I see it, bisexuality definitely exists and instead of being a way post to the either or of being gay or straight, I feel that perhaps bisexuality might be some form of evolved stage of sexual evolution and fluidity. As an engineer, I would think that a machine that goes from being able to handle one type of fuel and goes to being able to handle 2 types of fuel is somewhat evolving and has more range in its performance. Please dont take me too seriously when I say, Bisexuality is the next stage in human sexual evolution (Professor X from X-men voice)
the key point people keep forgetting is that beyond his initial, beautifully written, vague post, EVERYTHING is speculation, and a direct result of us/you motherfuckers putting your own emotions into the matter. Who is to say he’s rejecting a “gay box”? Has he called himself gay? Has he put a label on it? Does he still late men? Does he still fuck 3 women a day? Nobody knows. That this has mushroomed into THIS is baffling.
lol, i’m just amazed you made it past moderation
“If the presence of male-on-male sex is your way of measuring whether a man is gay, how would you describe a man who claimed to have fallen in love with another man if they never actually had sex with each other? What if this man was the only man he felt this way about? Basically, what if he wasn’t into men at all but just one particular man?”
And on the flip side, going by this logic, does that mean that a man who has always identified with gay falls in love with a woman… does that make his straight? I just always found it interesting that the reverse would never be true. He’d still be seen as gay. It’s as if gay is the “defining” sexuality when it comes to identification.
And I’m throwing this out here as someone very much lost within society’s obsession (maybe obsession isn’t the right word… maybe “complacency” would be better) with labels… knowingly so… even subconsciously so. And I believe we all are… despite how forward thinking we seem to be. Still… I have to point out how… interesting the above point is.
“And on the flip side, going by this logic, does that mean that a man who has always identified with gay falls in love with a woman… does that make his straight? I just always found it interesting that the reverse would never be true. He’d still be seen as gay. It’s as if gay is the “defining†s.e.x.uality when it comes to identification.”
This makes all the sense. (thinking out loud here…) Hetero interactions are needed to keep the species alive. I suppose one could argue at this point we have other ways of getting women pregnant and people could always still have s.e.x. just to have a baby…but if you are identifying yourself as gay you are identifying yourself as someone who won’t procreate. I guess that is worth “defining”…
“but if you are identifying yourself as gay you are identifying yourself as someone who won’t procreate”
But I don’t believe that people who identify themselves as gay are saying that they have no interest in procreation.
You yourself mentioned the many options and biological advances that are available now to anyone who wants to have a child, single, married, straight or gay.
There is a member of my family who identifies herself as a clear cut homosexual, no wavering and she is currently pregnant with twins, and achieved this the old fashioned way.
I believe that as with any label, people add their own connotations and meanings to it based on what they personally believe and what their experience may have been with others who share that label.
“And I’m throwing this out here as someone very much lost within society’s obsession (maybe obsession isn’t the right word… maybe “complacency†would be better) with labels… knowingly so… even subconsciously so. And I believe we all are… despite how forward thinking we seem to be.” Exactly. No matter how forward thinking we may think we are, we usually aren’t as forward thinking as we want others to believe. EVERYONE PLACES PEOPLE INTO BOXES. To say you don’t is lying.
“EVERYONE PLACES PEOPLE INTO BOXES. To say you don’t is lying.”
thank you mena…
i love it that people can go online and play that role as if they are so evolved and so beyond other mortals, that they do not judge others….which is all bullshit!
we all judge and label…i don’t care how progressive you think that you are
for instance…what if i were to say that i love so fluidly that i love to “love” animals?
or i have a love affair with dirty diapers?
or to not be that extreme lets say i was dating one of you vsb’s seriously, and i come out to you with some “i’ve been in love with other men” lets keep it a hunned and twenty here. i’d get all kinds of side-eyes from you….
My heart would drop if a man i was attracted to/started dating ever said that he had been in love with a man.
+1 on calling BS to VSBers and VSSers (and other folk) being above judging…yes we all do it and probably do it more than we think.
“It’s as if gay is the “defining†sexuality when it comes to identification.”
once you go Black/gay, you never go back and shit
LOL, seems like.
By society’s terms and the narrowest of standards? Yes, he would be considered gay. There is not a lot of room, leeway or concession made for men to explore or experiment with their feelings for other men. And I’m not just speaking sexually, but emotionally as well. Unless you’re like a 19th century French poet, even how men are “allowed” or “supposed” to love in general, let alone one another is pretty fixed. And what I saw in that letter were universal themes of love and heartbreak. There is this Sex and the City episode, I think after Mr. Big marries that other chick and they’re talking about soul mates and Charlotte says something like maybe we can be each other’s soul mates and men will be the extra. Women are allowed and expected to have deep, loving friendships that fill voids and nurture souls, whereas men are broadbrushed as incapable of such or shamed for even considering it. I think Ocean’s letter gives people the space to question and redefine meaningful relationships along with the universal desire to be loved.
“Women are allowed and expected to have deep, loving friendships that fill voids and nurture souls, whereas men are broadbrushed as incapable of such or shamed for even considering it. I think Ocean’s letter gives people the space to question and redefine meaningful relationships along with the universal desire to be loved”
All. Of. This.
That was the main thing that I took from Frank’s letter. Not that he had loved a man, but that he had loved a PERSON and did not receive the love that he invested in return.
I think that society is not constructed to accept someone who expresses ideals outside of what is considered normal. Everyone was enamored with Frank’s music when he made his mainstream debut because they could identify with the love songs being sung to a woman because love songs by men are ALWAYS sung to a woman.
Now that there is the possiblity that some of the songs may have been to men, it creates confusion and disorder because it is not what they are used to.
The thing that gets me, is that I don’t listen to love songs based on who I think the recipients are. I listen to love songs because of the feelings and emotions they evoke. As a matter of fact, its SO much easier for me to sing “Thinking About you” now that I don’t have to conciously change the ‘girls’ to “boys” when I sing.
“…but that he had loved a PERSON and did not receive the love that he invested in return.”
i think the love was reciprocated. it just wasnt acknowledged
The fact is that sexuality can be very complex for some people, and just having labels of “straight,” “gay,” and “bi” just doesn’t cover it sometimes.
The Kinsey Scale goes from 0 to 6, where a 0 is exclusively hetero and a 6 is exclusively gay. Most people are not exactly a 0 or exactly a 6. There’s a lot of room in there for the kinds of thoughts and feelings that many of us don’t like to talk about with others.
I’d like to propose a 0 to 10 scale, wherein people could go around and say things like “I’m a 1.7,” and while we wouldn’t know *exactly* what that entails, we would at least have a decent idea where their orientation is.
Apologies for length.
(That’s what he said.)
Whoops. That wasn’t very long at all, it just felt that way when I was working on it.
That’s what she said.
LOL at these that’s what she saids.
lmao… so true. We know where your mind is tonight! lol
Damn, you beat me to it.
I was ready to go all the way in… *pause* LMAO!!!
LOL… all the way? Like you had enough to reach the bottom.
lmao
That’s enough of that, young lady! LMAO!
In the end, what does it matter if you are gay or straight, except to the people you might sleep with? Only then should it matter because you want to know if that person is on the same page, right?
Whether it matters or not, it’s still always going to be a topic of conversation. It just is. If we use my 0 to 10 scale, we can at least be a little more accurate in defining our orientation when that topic comes up.
According to wiki 1 – 5 is bisexual. Since bisexuality doesn’t exist (TBC), does that mean this is an inception like reality?
“Only then should it matter because you want to know if that person is on the same page, right?”
Hmm, I always thought a good way to avoid being a homocide victim in the dating/relationship game is to be honest and on the same page as your partner(s). Sexuality is like choosing pizza toppings. Say sex is the pizza, we want it hot and steamy no matter when it is ordered. Even though sometimes pizza tastes better cold the next day
We experiement a little to find that perfect combo for the individual. Whether or not you like a plain cheese pizza, half veggie-half bacon, or pineapple and ham I think it is important to make sure the person sharing pizza with you likes the same toppings. If not, might as well order different pizzas instead of trying to change someones preference or conviencing yourself you can learn to like something.
You TOTALLY lost me with all the pizza toppings, but you did manage to make me hungry. And, that’s perfectly fine AFTER sex! BTW, I like deluxe pizza toppings because I want all the veggies and the meat! lmao
HAHaHAha! I’m still at work and missed lunch. As a lactose-intolerant pizza is my kyrptonite.
“As a lactose-intolerant pizza is my kyrptonite.”
Well, that’s just gay.
lol
Lactose intolerant pizza? That makes about as much sense as a non-alcoholic beer or sugar free candy!
or sugar free ice cream and thc free weed!
Oh hell no!!!!
“I want all the veggies and the meat! lmao”
that’s what she said
*approves this post.
I love love love that this idea of not “believing” in bisexuality still exists and that people still feel compelled to express this out loud in public. The gender and sexuality police are working around the clock to rule out folks’ emotions.
@Loving Me who are you to declare that sexuality is black and white? Who are you to establish the parameters of another person’s sexuality, setting the line over which one falls on one side or another? Because that happened to you has nothing to do with the next questioning/curious person’s journey.
If someone can’t express their beliefs and open up a dialogue then there is a problem. So b/c my opinion goes against being “open minded” i am to keep my opinion to myself? How does this make sense? This is the reason why we can’t even have an honest discussion about race in this country b/c as soon as someone goes against what is liberal and politically correct, people start calling the person close minded and an idiot.
Allow for those to express their opinions and then try to make them see your point of view without being overly critical. This will go an extremely long way.
“If someone can’t express their beliefs and open up a dialogue then there is a problem. So b/c my opinion goes against being “open minded†i am to keep my opinion to myself? How does this make sense? This is the reason why we can’t even have an honest discussion about race in this country b/c as soon as someone goes against what is liberal and politically correct, people start calling the person close minded and an idiot.”
***nodding head***
“This is the reason why we can’t even have an honest discussion about race in this country b/c as soon as someone goes against what is liberal and politically correct, people start calling the person close minded and an idiot.”
You mean a person like Obsidian? (Where is he, by the way?!)
WHY FOR ART THOU CALLING HIS NAMETH?????? WHY????
He was the first person I thought of when I saw that. Besides, I kind of miss him saying “adjourn your arses”, LMAO!
I say we give him the Beetlejuice treatement. Say his name three times and he will appear- you first…
There is a difference b/w discussing and getting all mightier than and trying to make people feel stupid since they can’t quote books and statistics at the drop of a hat. In other words…being a complete douche.
But…but…but…Jon Stewart does the same thing and he gets ratings…
*passes the mic to Mena for her response*
*clears throat*
He is witty, funny, articulate, and will listen to others opinions even if he doesn’t agree with them. He can make fun of the people he is interviewing and himself at the same time. Jon Stewart is brilliant at his job.
He is witty, funny, articulate, and will listen to others “opinions even if he doesn’t agree with them. He can make fun of the people he is interviewing and himself at the same time. Jon Stewart is brilliant at his job.”
yeah, and you could say the same thing about rush limbaugh. I think “progressive/liberal” people to tend to only give the benefit of the doubt to people who share their viewpoints
Nope. Rush yells. Stewart has actually had O’Reily on his show at least twice and the two actually like each other. The go at each other but their is still a respect there. Stewart, though liberal, still voices his view with the people he is interviewing in a very tactful way. Sorry but you can place Rush in that category.
*can’t*
My issue is when people have opinions that can in no way, shape, or form be supported by facts. Then your opinion is wrong. Dead wrong. For example, bisexuality is a fact. 100% stone cold fact. Like the fact that is world is real-type fact. So any opinion that states otherwise must be coming out of a Michelle Bachmann textbook.
I think it is fine to challenge an opinion as long as you don’t mind your own being challenged.
MHO, he is an emotional man. That long letter to basically himself, shows that he has very strong emotions for someone who apparently has a woman too, and neither one of them expected to have those types of feelings for one another, it seems. Anyway, is he gay? I couldn’t care less. There are so many folks out there get hung up on others sexuality. The only thing folks really need to be concerned about is their own sexuality. What happens behind closed doors should be kept between those with whom they shared that experience, IMHO. Ocean’s sexuality has no bearing on what my day will be tomorrow.
This.
This right here is the best answer I’ve read yet. Granted I haven’t read anything AFTER this, but hey.
Why? Aside from being slightly bias (hey… Come on…), I appreciate this post above others cause Nilla gave the right answer. “I don’t know. Couldn’t care less.” It’s bloody hypocritical for someone to say “Frank Ocean is not gay and we should stop using labels.” Cause you just labeled him as not gay. Duh. Yea, I’m looking at you Malik.
On another note, as I said in the last post about Frank, in my opinion, labelling people is natural. I acknowledge I do it. I accept that I do it. I recognise that I could be wrong in my assumptions. I’m also human. With that being said, if Johnny thinks Frank is gay, well, Johnny is entitled to his own opinion. He may be an arse, but until/unless he acts on his feelings in a negative and detrimental way, why the hell should we care?
+ eleventeenhunned bruh…..
“On another note, as I said in the last post about Frank, in my opinion, labelling people is natural”
yeah. the possibility that labels can be wrong doesnt negate the fact that we still have a need to do it
You just trying to be a good straight up eboo supporting me and all. I love it! Can’t remember if I told you they featured buying a house on HGTV last weekend in Trinidad! It was amazingly beautiful. But, a friend said they didn’t have a Walmart in Trinidad.
I guess I’d have to shop more online. Shipping would be a biotch!
I don’t understand this incessant need society has to discuss and debate what goes on in other folk’s bedrooms. Why is “coming out” even a THING? Like, really- unless we’re swapping DNA, I couldn’t care less. In fact, I strongly prefer you keep that ish to yourself–and that goes for anybody. I was talk under my clothes in strange company; and frankly wish the world would respond in kind.
** I was raised not to talk under my clothes in strange company*
right there with ya boo radley…
+ 2
guess what?….
if folks didn’t make it a point to let the whole world know how they get down, it would never be an issue
this is why i hate the fact that the gay rights movement likes to piggy back off the civil rights and women’s rights movements.
i can’t help being the only black man in the room.
a women can’t do anything about being the the only woman in an all male boardroom.
but a lifestyle choice!? what i do behind closed doors?! why is this even up for public discourse?
whether you’re hetero or homo or monosexual, i can give 2 flying fuqs! keep it to yourself and whomever’s peen or poon you have in ya mouth….
then they’ll never be a need for these discussions…..
but a lifestyle choice?
well..since its not definitive that it indeed is a choice…
what one feels and thinks may not be a choice but action is always a choice.
a hetero dude who gets male butt raped in the pen may not have had a choice, but if he becomes acclimated to that lifestyle and continues ones he returns to the land of the living…then yeah that’s a choice
I agree that people shouldn’t have to feel compelled to answer rumors about their sexuality. People are upset for Frank writing the post. But he would not have written the post if media weren’t speculating.
And if they were speculating because a leaked lyric may have said “he” and it’s “his own fault,” Then that’s like you writing an honest love song and then changing the lyrics from “she” to “him”. It’s not honest. That’s not how you feel. That’s how he feels.
But that wasn’t my point. My point is yes, there are plenty of people who are cisgendered (this means, heteronormatively, your physiological gender “matches” your gender orientation. Aka you’re a masculine man. Or you’re a feminine woman.), but harbor feelings for the same sex. Like a Portia Di Rossi or a Rock Hudson.
But there are tons who don’t. Adam Lambert. Snoop from the Wire. We live in a society where people like that were/are tormented. Some brutally beaten/murdered. We live in a society where you can lose your job for loving who you love.
Preference/Love/Desire and physicality are two things people can’t change. Just like being Black… Yes they can choose to be unhappy and suppress, but again that’s like asking you to all of a sudden be flamboyant. Or fall in love with a man. That’s the only choice. Choosing to do you or not do you.
And those who, because people like you tell them it’s a choice, for those who choose to live a lie. They’re the ones you want to expose as DL men. As wayward woman 20-30 years down the line.
Ya’ll kill me. Sexuality is more fluid, deeper then a majority of the people having a heart attack over Frank Ocean’s poem.
Churrrrrrrrrch!
I think the point he was trying to make is you can sleep with what ever sex you please just dont tell us about it, why are you making it information that we have to know? You can not say that the reason people tell others is because people have been speculating, why are people speculating?… Just do you, i mean if you put it out there, people are going to talk, then you go like its my business why do you talk?……………come on you put it out there, so may be subconsciously you wanted an opinion on it no?
“I don’t understand this incessant need society has to discuss and debate what goes on in other folk’s bedrooms.”
we discuss and debate everything else. why should this be off-limits?
Because it’s so intensely personal. In this age of rampant information dessimination, it seems that people relish having every Tom, Dick,and Susie all up in their business. Then when someone expresses a dissenting opinion, it emphasis on “personal.” I don’t need to know what sorts of activities anybody’s peen gets up to in his private time. I DON’T. Ugh!
(I feel the same way about hygiene commercials.)
Seriously, America. STOP TALKING UNDER YOUR CLOTHES. It would reduce so much drama.
Okay, this freedom mouse is doing the most with the deleting entire sentences…
Should read:
“Because it’s so intensely personal. In this age of rampant information dessimination, it seems that people relish having every Tom, Dick,and Susie all up in their business. Then when someone expresses a dissenting opinion, it because an issue. Sexuality is a personal issue–emphasis on “personal.â€
then why do folks make it so public
obnoxious parades, dumb azz reality shows, mediatakeout, the water cooler…you name it..sooner or later someone’s gonna have some ish to say even though it’s really none of they’re beezwax
if you you’re walking around pronouncing your gayness to the world…..sooner or later someones gonna prolly gay bash on you while other more powerful people try to create legislation to keep you away from them.
if you’re a hetero and you wear you promiscuity on you sleeve, then be prepared to be called ho’s, slut’s and ain’t shid nugga’s.
Thems be the breaks………..
Is he gay? The world may never know…until he tells us. I do know that this Channel Orange has been playin all day and…i like it. Can we move on from his and other people’s sexuality now?
“Can we move on from his and other people’s sexuality now?”
nope
go figure lol
I would guess the question you’re asking is really “Did Frank Ocean desire sexual contact with this man?”. I think that is the yard stick most would use to determine if a person is gay.
I have had my infatuations with certain women when I was in my late teens/early twenties. I might even say I loved them, but there was not a hint of sexual tension. They were invariably significantly older, and the type of women I imagined I wanted to be when I was older. A young man experiencing the same thing isn’t so far fetched. Is it?
“A young man experiencing the same thing isn’t so far fetched. Is it?”
according to most, it is
i love that you almost always write exactly the article i think you should and/or a m expecting you to write. lol.
maybe italk to you too much. or maybe you’re just that good. who knows.
anyhoo, Frank’s letter said, to me, that he fell in love with a man. that’s really all. he didn’t identify with any orientation, he didn’t have some big “coming out” and all that, he just told his story, like i said on Panama’s post. of all his songs i’ve heard, and that’s pretty much all of them bc i’m a big fan, i’ve only heard actual sexual songs about women. Forrest Gump and Bad Religion and Thinking About You are about a man seemingly, and they’re only about love.
and i love that he probably won’t do an interview about it or identify as any one thing for the public. he’ll just let “us” keep on debating and go on about his life. game set match.
“maybe i talk to you too much. or maybe you’re just that good. who knows.”
definitely the latter
First off, who cares? This frank ocean thing is so 5 minutes ago. Secondly, if he feels/felt romantic love for another man, that is a big ole G.A.Y. Idc if he was 9, 19, or 90 yrs old at the time, its gay. Thank you & goodnite.
“This frank ocean thing is so 5 minutes ago.”
lol, the post isn’t really about frank ocean, though. but, thanks for stopping by
dunno, don’t care, didn’t read the tumblr, didn’t buy the album on itunes at midnight, didn’t gush over music like it was the second coming of Marvin and Luther (wonder if anyone will get that, nah)
*skip skeedaddles into Thursday*
I see what you did there.
Very cleaver King Jordan! *fist bump*
I think you won the post.
Humans are capable of loving other humans. Frank Ocean has just fully exercised that instinct. There’s nothing to label.
i think you’re 2/3rds right
Why’d you only give her a 66.6666%? Lol… that’s a D.
Aside: My azz is tardy to the party on Rahsaan Patterson. Am I the only one who didn’t know he was gay? He was talking about Frank Ocean on VIBE, and they article said he came out in 2007. (At least I’m not as late as ninjas who are STILL just now learning about Tevin Campbell)
Yep, he’s openly gay as well as Donnie (R&B artist). But for some reason, before Rahsaan came out, I always had a hunch he was gay, so I wasn’t the least bit shocked.
Yeah, that video for “Where You Are” didn’t do Rahsaan any favors, LOL!
While we’re on the subject of singers that recently came out of the closet, remember Tonex? Sure he came out like three years ago, but the video for this song he did several years prior was a clear cut red flag for me:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=s89klxhfhR0&feature=related
man after all these homemade youtube videos of gay dudes trynna sing….i’m almost convinced that most of these R&B nuggas is on the DL
trey songs i’m pointin’ at you dude
(sorry ladies but dat nugga gay!)
I think Trey likes boys as well. Lol
His name just reeks of gayness. Trey Songz?
And his real name is even worse…*snickers*
I don’t know what Frank chooses to identify as, but what I am certain of is that his letter has been the perfect press. Who knows if this letter was purposely interwoven into his overall promotion strategy, but this is how you incite interest in a project. Since last week it has been non-stop Frank Ocean, and quite honestly, I’m tired of hearing about this guy and his sexuality. It’s like his sexuality has overshadowed the music. Out of all the articles I read about Frank in the past week, only one addressed him as an artist and “Channel Orange” while every other article debated whether he’s gay, questioned how we define gay, and tried to decipher the letter to no avail.
That’s crazy to me. Def Jam couldn’t have asked for better promotion because the heightened interest in his sexuality actually pushed up his release date. How often does that happen for a relatively new artist? The buzz is so noteworthy that the record company knows it must strike while the iron is hot. As a former intern at two music labels, this letter was brilliant (even though it probably would have backfired if it wasn’t Frank in question). His name is on the tip of everyone’s tongues, and at the end of the day, no one still has answers, only assumptions.
Also, I downloaded the album and I didn’t see the actual letter in the liner notes. Did I miss it? Because if it wasn’t included…this is some bullsh*t considering the “letter” was written for the liner notes…lol.
O this one is good. I would love to throw in gender identity fluidity just for kicks but we have enough to digest today. How bout we just say I’m ‘whoever you see me with’-sexual. I just do not see why we need to define it. I do understand that it can make things easier socially, example: pursuing sexual partners, however, as I have presented myself as a sTr8 (not narrow thank you very much) woman that hasn’t stopped other women (str8, bi, or gay) from hitting on me.
Perhaps ppl just want to have these classifications so they can easily identify those they want to condemn. Though in the context of relationships I do think you should be prepared to share with your partner these details (along with #, stds, pregnancies) so that they can make informed decisions about the relationship.
There is a wide spectrum to sexuality beside just str8, bi and gay. Most people just want to see sexuality as a black/ white issue. They think you are either gay or str8, period. There is no telling where Frank fits in the spectrum. And really what’s the point of speculating? The fact that Frank can speak about his sexuality in an ambiguous way is already a giant step forward.
Listen to Forrest Gump,son is gay
I don’t think Oceangate is going to start a serious discussion with blk folks because he has not been exposed to the long public enough(constant radio rotation).
We get our views about sex from the bible.
Theres a reason why a gay character has never been in any of TP’s films.
No clue why this is such a problem. Frank is Bisexual. I mean:
He wrote that he fell in love, with a man
He slept in the bed at times with that man
When he told that man how he felt about him, the dude told him to go kick rocks.
Sooo, presumably if the guy would have said “I thought you’d never ask” Frank and that dude would be having sex RIGHT NOW.
How is this even in depute? Do people just really not want him to be Gay or Bi? And yes folks, if a woman said she was attracted to another woman, then by definition she is bisexual. That’s the whole point of the term.
Honestly, i cant figure out why this is confusing…. or why peeps have such a hard time admitting that the guy’s Bi.
It’s ok…. seriously. And if it’s not ok to you, then get ready because there’s going to be waaaaaay more where he came from.
Bet on it.
I concurr..
I’m surprised the comment section is so quite. I though you DirecTV people didn’t have anything better to do #shade #TheComcastBillIsTooDamnHighThough
Sadly I won’t get to see the #RichPeopleProblems associated with Celebrity Ex-Wives. I was so looking forward to hearing this:
“Girl I knew it was real when Gucci rescinnded my discount, like that doesn’t apply to you anymore”
LOL, I stumbled upon this show…and I don’t hate them.
When I initially heard the Frank Ocean story, I ignored it because dude’s sexuality has nothing to do with me. But I’m glad he did whatever he feels he needed to do to express himself as a person…came out or w/e because it’s a personal thing at the end of the day. Hopefully, it inspires other ppl to just be themselves and accept love when they find it.
Personally,I think most people are bisexual. I agree with the notion of sexuality being fluid, and I think most people fall somewhere in the middle of the spectrum (80-20 gay/str8, 60-40 str8/gay…ya know) rather than the extreme..being solely gay or str8. Labels are helpful, but unfortunately ppl take it too far with trying to place one another in rigid boxes when we’re all just very unique.
I can admit that I’m less black and white with female sexuality. I just feel that men have a bigger stigma so if you are attracted to/sleep with another man you’re gay or prepared to be seen that way. It’s unfair, but it’s how I feel.
The difference between gay and bisexual is simply being with others of the opposite sex. Frank, considering his way with words and fame, can probably still get women. An ordinary ninja who is attracted to men isn’t getting that pass from most women.
“Frank, considering his way with words and fame, can probably still get women. An ordinary ninja who is attracted to men isn’t getting that pass from most women.”
THIS.
Like I said on the last post, I would still slay Frank every which way til Sunday.
Ya know, I been finding myself looking at these various pics of Frank on the internets and frankly (ALL KINDS OF PUNS), my mental mind whispered to myself, “He fahn.”
And he is. I never really got to look at him before and he’s actually very good looking. Something sexy about him. Them dayum eyes. Lawd.
He’s got amazing bone structure!
He’s famous. That’s it. Goes back to the Idris post.
If he was a regular ol Leeroy from across the bridge, who women found relatively attractive, and he said he loved Jimmy when he was 18, Leeroy would be considered gay.
The end.
Word.
“If he was a regular ol Leeroy from across the bridge, who women found relatively attractive, and he said he loved Jimmy when he was 18, Leeroy would be considered gay.”
Eh, I keep seeing this argument and I don’t buy it. This convo on “sexual identity” has BEEN going on way before Frank Ocean came out. He just happens to be a poster child for a convo/debate that ALWAYS existed within communities and families. I use the same thing with Obama since Champ mentioned the one drop of Black blood rule. Biracial folks have always been the target for other people placing labels on them that they have a right to place on themselves, and the same goes for people who are trying to define their sexuality.
So, no, not everyone is quick to label someone “gay” without the aforementioned person being sure themselves… hence why this debate ain’t new. In fact, the same people who would label Joe Schmoe gay are the same ones on Twitter calling Frank Ocean out of his name and labeling him gay as well.
1. Is Frank Ocean gay?
– Don’t give a f*ck. Why? Glad you asked (see #3)
2. TUK, the whole internet loves you and recently heard you copped his Channel Orange album, seeing as how you mean SO much to us, tell us, how’s the album?
– Glad you asked, mortal!!! So far, Channel Orange is my third favorite body of work of 2012 so far. Right behind Childish Gambino’s “Royalty” mixtape and Ab-Soul’s “Control System” album. However, this might change after Kendrick Lamar and G.O.O.D. Music drops their respective albums.
3. So, Oh Delusional One, you’re saying his sexuality and the quality of his music aren’t coorelated?
– Exactly. His alb-wait….the f*ck you just call me?!
4. Did you enjoy Dreamgirls?
– Yep. And I’m one of the few people who didn’t like Jennifer Hudson’s character. She acted like a spoiled, jealous brat.
5. Really, does that mean you’re a homose-
– This interview is over.
+100 for Royalty
+100 for giving him +100 for Royalty.
i actually laughed out loud….
LOL… I enjoy your unique approaches to these convos.
Hmmm, the last time I got involved in this Frank Ocean issue on vsb, I got upset, not because I was being called a conservative, or that I was accused of trying to rationalize bigotry…nah what got me upset, was the fact that I kept hearing people refer to “society”, “people”, “the world”, “the media” etc, yet I heard very few people refer to “themselves” or use the word “I”, when talking about this issue.
When you go out into the world and you make decisions on what to wear, what to buy, what to eat, where to go out to in the evening etc, do you take into consideration what society thinks? Do you spend hours upon hours in the mirror trying to think about what people are going say to about what you decided to wear? If you do, I wish you well, because I know your life must be a miserable one, dedicated to pleasing others over yourself. For those who don’t, you should understand that the decisions you make in life, ultimately come down to how you individually think and feel.
My point, is that these conversations about the media and the society, and how that all plays into how we view things, is not only counterproductive, but is so subjective that it ultimately leads to arguments which are taken out of context, because what are people referring to when they use the word “society” or “the media”? Are we referring to 300 million + Americans, who all possess different minds and values? Are we talking about the 40 million + black people, who differ individually in terms of their likes or dislikes? Or are you simply referring to the people who don’t agree with what you believe, when you use such words as society?
If we want to have productive conversations about issues like this that matter to the heart, we should talk based on what we know, and that is what we feel and think individually. Everything else is simply irrelevant and inapplicable. Most politicians don’t know anything about the people they’re supposed to govern, it’s amazing to me, how many people think they can decipher or pinpoint the mind set of millions of people with certainty when they refer to the media and society.
BM- We all make decisions on what to do, say, and wear based on societal norms. While everyone has there own mind, our difference of opinions are only slight. We either believe or do not with varying degrees of interest.
I disagree.
I think those “slight” differences you refer to is what make us different from animals, and ultimately what makes us human. The fact is if it wasn’t for those slight differences, we wouldn’t be able to have opinions because we would all basically arrive at the same conclusions, when it was all said and done.
And once again, what you refer to as “societal norms” I don’t get! What are you or anyone else for that matter referring to when you use the word society. Is the blood up in Compton and the Fat Cat up in Wall Street, both members of the same society that you speak of? And are there differences only “slight?”
Societal norms are the reason you wear underwear and not panties. It’s not the complicated BM.
Man trust me, it’s not about it being complicated or not, it’s about it being irrelevant.
If societal norms aren’t relevant then why do you follow them?
I only care about or follow the societal norms that I think are beneficial to me. I think it’s beneficial to me to wear underwear, I don’t have to. There are people who are men who wear panties, some who don’t wear them at all. Among us that is abnormal, however, in the society consisting of crossdressers, it would not be. I remember Babyface once saying that he doesn’t wear deodorant, isn’t that against what you consider to be societal norms? To you and I, probably that is not a social norm, however, among hippies, that is a social norm.
I grew up in a household where my parents whooped my ass, according to “societal norms” that is wrong. However, if we’re talking about black societal norms, or African societal norms, that’s to be expected and is in fact right. But in order to reach such a conclusion as to what is or isn’t a societal norm, one has to specify. And most people don’t specify when they use the term society, they just expect people to see where they’re coming from.
When people refer to societies, they rarely ever define what they mean or who they’re specifically talking about, it is such a vague and subjective term, that it usually leads to several entanglements if a disagreement ever comes about. It’s easier and far more productive to talk to people about what they “think” rather than to talk to people about unknown and invisible powers that influence and control them. When I hear people say “we need to change society”, or “societal norms control us” I wonder to myself, if we’re under the control of society, why even talk about it, I mean there is nothing we can do about it. However, most people who talk about society, always talk about the need to change it. If society is indeed changeable, if social norms can be changed, how then is it changed? Is it not through our thoughts and our decisions that society changes?
co-sign with each of your statements bhillboy.
i understand that everyone wants to feel like an individual and like your decisions are not dictated by anything but you – but it’s false.
when people say you shouldn’t care what other people think of you – it’s also false.
if you have a job – you conform to their standards everyday.
if you have parents – and you don’t want to disappoint them, you (the royal you, not specifically you) – make decisions so as not to do so.
and so on and so on.
it’s just life.
this conversation about sexuality is no different than trying to define what is normal. we’d like to think we know, but it’s like trying to define every colour of a rainbow.
The MORE you believe that all your decisions in life are solely yours is the definitive proof that American society has shaped ALL of your views considering “individualism” is one of the cornerstones to American thought that is ingrained in people for them to simultaneously to feel extra special and for them to ignore critical thinking on systematic and complex issues because everyone is an individual.
Which nation, best exemplifies your idea of a near-perfect society, where they don’t believe in individualism?
Has absolutely nothing to do with a near-perfect society and America is far from that. I’m telling you it’s a pretty damn near exclusive America belief that everything happens because your ability to bootstrap. Pick pretty much any other country and they’ll laugh at the premise you’re presenting.
And then look at where America is today, and then look at them. Trust me, I’m well traveled. The French even admit that American ideas are primitive, yet they can never fully comprehend, why Americans have reached where they are.
And this is an America on decline.
“Do you spend hours upon hours in the mirror trying to think about what people are going say to about what you decided to wear?”
Not hours, but yes. If not, I’d most likely wear sweatpants to work everyday and risk getting fired. The point is, society (in this example “society” is a work environment) does have certain rules and norms that we’re obligated to follow.
You’re not obligated to work in that environment though, you chose to do that. Was it not your employers, who were individuals who decided to make that choice. When did “society” come in and force you to do anything? There are places you can work where you can wear sweat pants all the time, but you choose not to work there.
My point is, individuals create society, and it is by our agreements that this whole thing known as society exists. It is not some spiritual power that forces us to do anything. The only reason why we even complain about societal power, is because we know it can be changed by us. If society was as powerful or as omnipotent as people like to make us believe, we would all bow to it’s supreme power, and live our lives accepting things as they are.
You have a choice. We all have a choice to be who we want to be and do what we want to do but we don’t have a choice on how people see it. We usually pick the society we want to be in whether it’s a gangbanger or corporate suit. But you don’t walk into a gang culture in a Brooks Bros. suit and you don’t walk into a business meeting with a bandanna and oversized jeans on. The fact is that norms change but only in waves. When not in waves its by cult of personalities, which don’t happen much. Norms change because new information is learned. Norms change because of convenience. But wherever you are there are norms.Without norms we would live in a world far more unpredictable than the one we live in now. That’s a good thing.
But even the norms you’re talking about were set up by individuals, whether it was individual business men, individual gang bangers etc. Which goes back to my point that, arguing about society is ultimately futile. Society changes based on what we each choose to believe, we control the waves, we give ears and listen to the cults of personalities. If things are to change, they change because individuals “agree” to change them. Or they stay the same because individuals choose to “reject” change.
So your point is….? You don’t really seem to have one. Society changes so why go by societal norms because nobody is the arbiter of said norm? What are you even talking about? Your talking in circles again.
You know what, you’re completely right. Every argument about society usually ends up with people talking in circles anyhow, so let me just stop.
LMAO! I followed up to this point in the conversation and thought the same thing. “So to what end are we going to argue this? Where’s the point..?”
I used to think it was only the act of sex with someone that made a person homosexual. Frank Ocean has given me reason to think about it. I still think the act is a pretty firm dividing line between what is and what isn’t but after his admission to I think that it is also a person’s intention. When I was 13 years old I had never had sex with a girl but I definitely had the intention. I wanted to and made every attempt to make it happen. I had heterosexual intentions. That made me a heterosexual.
“I used to think it was only the act of sex with someone that made a person homosexual.” – *someone of the same sex* that made a person homosexual. I will start proofreading.
I too have loved a man. Still do actually. He’s my best friend. Years ago when I was down and out, my best friend took me in. Kept me off of the street. I couldn’t even get my sisters or brother to do it. He treated me with dignity and respect that no one else has ever showed my. One night while we were sitting on the couch drinking beers and probably watching a game or something, I looked over at him and felt true love. LOVE in it’s purest context. Not love for the sake of sex or love in relation to sex but LOVE for a person who cares about you. It was HUGE. A big friggin’ deal how that LOVE made me feel. It made me uncomfortable. Still does actually, because of the way I’ve been socialized. Men aren’t supposed to love men and think of themselves as heterosexual. If you’re close enough to the hood you will hear men tell each other that they love them. That’s love for a man because that man cares for you unconditionally. Will go to jail for you or actually die for you.
In that same respect, theres plenty of women who are in love with they homegirl does that make them lesbian (well unless they use a ______on then they not anyway #yeezytaughtme). Theres a line between love and sexuality.
Realest comment of the day so far, thanks for this.
*applauds this post*
#truth. We can’t let things like genitals blind us to love like that. That’s some real ish there.
I’m totally in love with this comment.
Men DO love and they love their boys exp the ones they have come up with, who have looked out for one another like you shared. That is no revelation.
However
that is entirely different from being in love and pinning away for one of your boys.
Why are some folks trying to make it seem like FO was simply stating the former when unrequited love is the latter.
4 types of love ok this might help some folks………
Agápe (ἀγάπη agápÄ“[1]) means “love” (unconditional love) in modern day Greek, such as in the term s’agapo (Σ’αγαπώ), which means “I love you”. In Ancient Greek, it often refers to a general affection or deeper sense of “true love” rather than the attraction suggested by “eros”. Agape is used in the biblical passage known as the “love chapter”, 1 Corinthians 13, and is described there and throughout the New Testament as sacrificial love. Agape is also used in ancient texts to denote feelings for one’s children and the feelings for a spouse, and it was also used to refer to a love feast. It can also be described as the feeling of being content or holding one in high regard. Agape was appropriated by Christians for use to express the unconditional love of God.
Éros (á¼”Ïως érÅs[2]) is passionate love, with sensual desire and longing. The Modern Greek word “erotas” means “intimate love;” however, eros does not have to be sexual in nature. Eros can be interpreted as a love for someone whom you love more than the philia, love of friendship. It can also apply to dating relationships as well as marriage.
Philia (φιλία philÃa[3]) means friendship or affectionate love in modern Greek. It is a dispassionate virtuous love, a concept developed by Aristotle. It includes loyalty to friends, family, and community, and requires virtue, equality and familiarity.
Storge (στοÏγή storgÄ“[4]) means “affection” in ancient and modern Greek. It is natural affection, like that felt by parents for offspring
Friendship love is Philia, what you have for your boy, what ol boy sounded like in that letter and these songs is EROS.
I don’t remember reading where Frank Ocean specified which one he felt.
-___-
I just hollered!
I get what you’re saying and *applause*, but I’m pretty sure (I read it like twice to make sure I was reading correctly) that Frank also spoke of… laying in bed with this dude he loves… in which urrah case I believe he’s referring to another kind of loving nah mean.
U made me tear, some one giving of them selves of that which you need, its hard not to love them..
The media took the story and ran with it and for the most part Frank is letting the media cook. He can come out and clarify but 1. its none of our business 2. right now he likes being on both sides of the fence (no pun intended) if the LGBT community think he’s gay and support him blindly because of it, he wins.
I’m still not 100% convinced that the “hip-hop” community is 1.) On board with claiming Frank Ocean as “hip-hop” in the first place and 2.) gives a rats arse about his orientation to begin with.
I will say that Frank Ocean tends to be placed in this hipster box where pretty much anything can be the norm. Being a hipster can pretty much give you a pass on anything which is left, namely being chexually ambiguous or just plain ambiguous for ambiguity sake. Hipsters like being “undefinable” by other’s standards….I think that’s what they thrive on, confusing the absolute f.uck out of people because they don’t want to be put in society’s parameters of acceptable, normal, etc.
“I’m still not 100% convinced that the “hip-hop†community is 1.) On board with claiming Frank Ocean as “hip-hop†in the first place and 2.) gives a rats arse about his orientation to begin with.”
Agreed.
For one, the Rap radio community isn’t necessarily equated to the “HIP HOP” community. You can be a rapper and not be Hip Hop… it’s an element, but not Hip Hop in itself.
So the mainstream RAP community may be on board, but it doesn’t and NEVER has spoken for the greater Hip Hop community. It’s just the most popular extension of the Hip Hop culture.
I was using hip-hop extremely loosely hence the quotation marks but I definitely agree with you in the aspect of hip-hop being more than just what people are bombarded with on the daily basis.
This post feels like Déjà vu….didn’t we do this last week??? I am over the “coming out” publicity stunts. After reading the note (which is pretty intense…albeit a beautiful note that I which all my exs would write about me) he is forever and always a fruity loop in my mind.
lol I really admired the letter, he’s got quite a way with words. I don’t see why people need to be given a pat on the back for telling the world that they’re homosexual or otherwise. Good for you I guess.
+80.2
i remember a couple of years ago me and a group of my coworkers all went out for dinner and drinks, after the drinks kicked in, one of my coworkers decided to out of the blue announce that he was gay (which was shocking to no one because dude was super moist) .
everybody clapped and congratulated the nugga like he just cured cancer or just got his Phd. I smiled and clapped too because while I AM an azzhole…. i’m not an absolute azzhole and recognized how hard that was for him to come out. In my mind I’m thinking “nugga! i don’t give a fuq! so you like peen in yo mouth…yay for you mutha fucca! no one celebrated me when i got my 1st piece of poon, get over yourself you attention whore!”
Funny. My daughter met a friend a few years ago and she came over to the house. She was in (?) 6th or 7th grade at the time. When she left I asked my daughter… Is she gay? My daughter swore she wasn’t and, no, I really didn’t care if she was or wasn’t, but this was a time when my kids were learning about their sexuality too.
What is funny is now this same girl just finished up 11th grade and told my daughter that she thinks she’s gay at the beginning of the year to I’m definitely bi by the end of the year. LOL Her friend told her not to tell me to which my daughter told her, “My mom already knows, girl. She been knowing.” The girl was totally floored. My daughter asked me how I knew she was gay/bi? I told her, “I’ve had a lot of gay/bi friends over the years, honey. If she ‘didn’t know’ she was gay it was only because she was denying who she really was.” My daughter asked, “Do you feel differently about her now?” My answer, “Nope. She’s still the same person before she had this revelation about herself.”
Sometimes it’s hard to admit to others who we really are because we have issues with our own identities sometimes and sometimes it is because we’re afraid of being rejected by those with whom we have close relationships.
So let me get this straight, If I use the word LOVE and its in context with a person of the same sex then I am saying I am a homosexual. Even though I have no desire to have sex with them. We are really decaying as a society. No longer can love mean a deep admiration for a person regardless of gender. I read the stories about Frank and nowhere did I get the impression the was gay. All I got from the story he cared deeply about some men. What does this now create to all boys who love their fathers or their male role models?
It was actually “in love” which is completely different from “loving” someone.
“All I got from the story he cared deeply about some men. What does this now create to all boys who love their fathers or their male role models?”
You really don’t want to know the answer to this question, do you?
I feel like I should care or at least have an opinion one way or another, but I just don’t….I didn’t even bother to read his little letter. If I wanted to read about black males loving each other, I’d pick up an E. Lynn Harris book.
LOL, I didn’t read it either…it look too lengthy.
Why are we still talking about this guy?
Is Frank Ocean gay? Maybe, but chances are he’ll choose to identify as bisexual. Either way, I’m still not checking for his music. Sorry, but I don’t mess with anything related to Odd Future like that.
Note to Frank Ocean: If you’re going to be a singer-songwriter and happen to be bisexual, you need to get on this man’s level. That is all…
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AeI9zNNP8bE
Thanks for posting this one. This brings back memories. My next door neighbor was the dude who dropped a verse on the remix of this track…and spent the next 6 years trying to get his check and his album release. *smh*
You knew the cat on that song? What’s he doing now?
By the way Todd, you really don’t want to know someone I knew. I used to be in a hip hop collective with him called Espionage (don’t ask) and we went to school together for a couple of years. When I look at the music he’s doing now, I shake my head because it’s a far cry from the boom bap rap he used to do.
This is the song he’s most famous for. Skip to 2:21- that’s my dude Marvin…I mean Doonie, LMAO!!!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_z2agnoAUpc
Last I heard, he was working in construction. I don’t blame him for keeping a low profile. When the dude that used to play ball in the backyard with you goes from blowing up for a minute, then having to explain why it all went away, it’s awkward as f*ck. I know he’s alive though.
Also, I see your high school cat, and match you with my brother’s BET Uncut hit. Oddly enough, we don’t really look alive. LOL
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=R0jfrYeN9bs
wow intro’s version of ribbon in the sky was/is one my favorite all time r&b joints.
i did not know dude was bi, caught aids and died…
i guess that explains why such a talented group sort of just fell off the face of the earth.
They were supposed to do a third album around 1999, but Kenny kept stalling- even as quite a few executives at Atlantic Records wanted a new album from him. He couldn’t sing anymore due to AIDS affecting his voice a great deal. He had to give a lot of his songs to other artists for that very reason.
In fact, one of the songs he wrote that would have been on that new album he had to give to Mariah Carey’s group 7 Mile because he was too sick to sing it.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZsIcChjtY58
If I’m not mistaken, Kenny Green is gay and not bisexual. Prior to his passing, he did a pretty lengthy article with Jamie Foster Brown and admitted he was gay. He also revealed how he acquired HIV from his partner who acquired it from poking himself with a needle from an infected patient.
But Intro was dope though. “Come Inside” and “Ribbon In The Sky” are classic.
*was gay
I read that interview as well and Kenny openly admitted to being bisexual. But he didn’t admit to any of this until he was on his death bed- which is where Sister 2 Sister Magazine gave the interview. About two months after that issue hit, he died. Out of all the interviews I’ve read in my life, that had to be the saddest thing to ever read. He was a phenomenal singer, producer and songwriter who let poor judgement and risky sexual behaviors (i.e.: engaging in promiscuity without condoms) get the better of him.
Here’s a transcipt of the interview from the magazine. It was the only one I could find.
http://thickpoloatl.xanga.com/609607/item/
LOL @ the “one drop” theory. I haven’t seen it work like that- ever.
I think we all have observed men who were effeminate but not gay. I’m not sure we through gay around like that in a serious way…no, I’m sure we don’t.
IMHO, You’re not gay until you have s.e.x.ual contact with someone of the same s.e.x. or you declare/observe yourself to be gay. I don’t discount “experimentation.” That’s my personal definition.
The thought is not enough; in Ocean’s case I think most of assumed he was struggling with his s.e.x.uality, as many young gay people do, and that he is gay. Generally people dont “fall in love with” people of the same gender although people of the same gender frequently love each other. It’s called friendship. Maybe he was just a little deep in a friendship. Maybe it was some stalker sh*t in his mind. From what I read, it sounds like dude is gay and struggling with it.
I’ve never had those sort of intense feelings for any of my good friends before. I love them as sisters but I’ve never had the emotions he’s discussing swell up inside me like that for them.
Dude was head over heels for his friend. Point. Blank. Nothing wrong with it in my eyes though. I’m one to believe you cannot help who you fall in love with.
“I’m one to believe you cannot help who you fall in love with.”
One of my favorite lines from a song “I changed my mind; I don’t love you no more.” – Keisha Cole. I’m one to believe you can help it. In general, I think that idea keeps a lot people (usually women) wrapped up in bad situations.
I agree with you both. You can’t help who you love but you can remove yourself from the situation.
Yep!
You may love the person but know they are not right for you for whateva reason and you face the fact and move on.
It takes more than love to make a thang go right.
Ehh…
I don’t know about that. Even in a bad situation it’s extremely difficult for most people to just cast aside deep feelings for someone if they truly do love them. I’m not suggesting anyone remain in a messed up relationship for love’s sake but the average person goes through a laundry list of options to remedy the relationship before they just quit.
First, as many have said, Frank has done a great job of getting the publicity out there for people to listen to his songs and possibly buy his album. Side note: I dled Bad Religion and that song is just beautiful. That i will admit.
Second, for anyone to say that we don’t have the right to place people in boxes is just BS. You have the right to judge and be judged. Judging helps make us feel safe and can sometimes keep us out of harms way. What you do with that judgement is your decision but understand that their are always repercussions for our actions.
Third, what do i define as being gay? If a man writes a song about being in love with another man, i will automatically place him in the box as being gay. Same thing goes for a woman. Loving and being in love are two different things. Being in love to me describes a sexual competent. Also, as someone stated above, it seemed that if dude was willing to give Frank a chance, Frank would have started a sexual relationship with him.
Fourth, to say that i have no right to discuss his sexuality and judge him is also dumb. He’s a celebrity now who put out his business on an album. I have every right to critique the h3ll out of his work if i so choose.
Fifth, for those who feel that others who express opinions about not wanting to listen to his music b/c they can’t relate to the lyrics, instead of criticizing someone for being closed minded, try to understand where they are coming from and call it a day. It really isn’t that serious. You will either buy his music or you won’t. At the end of the day, Frank will be ok and still collecting royalty checks.
Sixth, there are people who are straight and GAY who do not believe in bisexuality. Some of my gay guy friends are this way. They do not believe that a man can be a bisexual so this is also the opinion of some in the gay community.
I have to agree here, it is wise and prudent to exercise good judgement.
Good judgement is vital in decision making not only for one’s protection but ulitmate benefit and well being.
Condemning folk is something all together different, not only do we not have that kind of power but we condemn ourselves and will face that same type of judgement if we were to indulge in such. Refer to Romans 2.
All of this…..+ 45.3
I like this comment.
Yes… next question.
1) I respect the fact that Frank Ocean is an eloquent young man who spoke of a time when he had a deep connection with someone and was mature enough to learn to move on and let it go.
2) Frank’s sexual orientation doesn’t bother me either way. I’m not really a “fan” per se but I respect his talent but I ain’t bumpin’ his music like that. Having said that, it took guts to put his personal life out there like that. So props.
That “man” could be Jesus.
Nigga coulda just been at Vaction Bible School…
YES HE IS GAY! you know why? because GAY IS GAY! no 2 ways about it. if you think n hope 2 get it on with another man, then you’re GAY, I mean if you were straight WHY WOULD YOU THINK LIKE THAT? that’s ‘coz you’re gay, and gay is gay, that’s why its called gay, ‘coz its gay! Now I don’t know this F.O guy, and I don’t think him being a black rapper should be a factor in determining his sexuality, being of the male gender is enough. with that said, nothing is wrong with being gay, that’s just between you and Jesus (and that dude u like). so can we move along now, m sure there are other useless issues we can waste our time on. dictated, not read.
First, the whole “Living in Atlanta? Gay!” is teh lulz. I need to make me a trip down there. If the gay is that real that a ninja like me who hasn’t been there since he was 8 can feel it, it must be FIERCE girlfriend!
In terms of the whole Black masculinity thing, it seems like Black men are required to have baseball bats for peens which they use to beat up people when not wrecking the wombs of anyone within a 500 feet radius who isn’t also a STRONG butch stud. The weak ones have to be submitted for review to The Learned Elders of Negrodom.
You should see the packet I have to email those idiots every 3 months. It’s ridiculous, and if you don’t, you have to talk one of their repo guys who literally try to take the peen. It’s freakin’ annoying.
Maybe one day, the presence and position of Black people will be secure enough that the men don’t have to prove their manhood ever 12.3 seconds. Based on the stats of who Black men collectively sleep with, the age they lose their virginity and the patterns with which they hump around, us Black men have some issues, and we need to stop working it out with our peens.
“us Black men have some issues, and we need to stop working it out with our peens”
No…
Yes.
YES!!!
*Dougies over to Breezy* How have you been lately?
* sticks foot out and trips mena in mid dougie *
I SAID NO!
this isn’t a democracy….cool breeze go to your room young lady!
*gives demondog a hard side-eye and pouts”
So, so cold!!! I mean, i thought we were cool. Why I gotta get tripped?
*I like it when men get all assertive and authoritative…”
*Chest bumps Mena* Gurllllll, this man has been keeping me busy!!! How are you doing?
@demondog…’the hell you sending me to my room for? NO! I refuse!
So um, I like what you did with that chest bump. Very article appropriate. You should do it one more time for good measure.
Sigh *Makes appointment for Jerry Curl, dusts off Glock 9, irons baggy jeans with extra spray starch, renews Traveling Vice Lord membership, puts huge subwoofers for crown vic on layaway, puts in bone thugs in harmony cassette, buys refreshing Schlitz malt liquor 40 ounce beverage*
I guess it’s back to dealing with our problems like we did in the 90s.
I see what you did there. Just fall back on the Jheri curl though, OK? We trying to be environmentally friendly ‘n sh1t.
Come on man, why can’t I just let my soul glow?
If you fix one pipe, does it make you a plumber? In the black community, yes.
Le sigh…..since when has sexuality become soooooo complex? Maybe slapping a label on someone isn’t right, but labels most definitely serve a purpose. If Frank Ocean stepped to me talkin’ ’bout “let’s go live that Sweet Life even though I swing whichever way the wind blows on any given day,” WTH and I’m supposed to do with that? I can’t process that information. All of this 50 Shades of Grey/Gay does not help my plight as a single woman.
He is either gay or Bi. If you have the capacity to fall in love, in the romantic sense, with someone of the same sex under circumstances where access to the opposite sex is prevalent and all social norms discourage you from doing so, then there must exist an innate attraction to the opposite sex. Straight men aren’t not attracted to men because they haven’t met that one special guy. That’s as absurd and offensive as saying lesbians are because they haven’t had that good D yet.
Arguing that a straight man can spontaneously fall in love with another man is a misguided attempt to not discriminate through labeling certain behaviors negatively. But the problem is the perception of the behavior as a negative in the first place. The truth is that most things, especially human behavior, are too complex and nuanced to fit in the limited boxes we create to aid our comprehension.
If being gay weren’t seen as something worthy to discriminate against, then we wouldn’t have to be so hypersensitive about defining it just so.
*throws rose petals at this entire comment.
I like this comment, too.
Yes Meechie….I fully agree with this.
I just like the fact that The Champ sees through the media hub bub and speaks on realness. It’s always a pleasure reading a conscious minds thoughts – it gives hope for the rest of the world – providing the rest of the world is listening/reading. *PLEASE REMOVE YOUR HEADPHONES, TURN OFF YOUR KINDLES, IPODS AND WHATEVER ELSE YOU HAVE IN YOUR PURSE, BAG, MAN PURSE, FANNY PACK, POCKET, GROIN..and LISTEN*
don’t have much hope for myself or missing that apostrophe though ~*
FOR (geez…it’s too early clearly)
When you say “intentionally leaving out bisexual because, well, the Council of Determining Gayness has ruled that bisexual men officially can’t and therefore don’t exist” are you not ascribing to the same set of values (i.e. if you like men at all, you must be label gay) that you seem to be calling problematic? Were you being sarcastic? Are you saying that you yourself even subscribe to the “one-drop” rule of black male sexuality? Because if you aren’t then, that statement placed at the end of your article really weakens your point.
This whole conversation…for the birds.
I’m not going to act like there isn’t a sociological precedent for the behaviors we are exhibiting but I’m also not going to pretend like a those behaviors apply appropriately to this sort of situation.
Basically, a bunch of people that need to grow up, never will. Tragedy. Life goes on.
Sagey Bear? or Incomplete Sage? WTF? Why you playing games Sagey? SMDH.
*pause*…is this THE Sagey Bear?!?!?!
I donno for sure Breezy. He told us he was dark skin like Ryan Gentles and this avi is NOT that. I’m a lil put out by his games at the moment. He used to be one of my favorites. Now this? umph.
Uh, that’s my winter coat(Pale version of my skin). Geezus.
And how you gon’ be so hard on me? Lol.
Like that Ryan Gentles cat wasn’t all sun bathed and what not. Smh. Useta be one of your faves? You ol’ vanilla wafer. LOL. no harm no foul. I’ll see y’all on today’s post though.
im still more concerned with the dude FO was referring to than FO himself.
and like the man that inspired adele’s amazing album – wonder what fella thinks of all this and if he’s still playing both sides of the fence.
so many questions!
If Frank Ocean’s sexuality HAD to be associated with a label, it would be bisexual or omnisexual (involving, related to, or characterized by a diverse sexual propensity). The problem with being born and raised/living in sexually repressed/Puritan America is that we don’t view sexuality as a spectrum. Our society sees it as “if not A,then B.” It is completely possible to fall in love with a person and not their sex.
I’m a pretty open minded person but I admit that even I have doubts about the existence of bi-sexual males. There are documented differences between the fluidity of female sexuality and the rigidity of male sexuality, but I also admit that my own limited experience comes into play. A lot of people (me included) know of men that pretended to be straight, then were bi, then just admitted they were all the way gay. I know a lot of gay men who don’t believe it exists. Not saying they are the total authority, but they tend not to know that many bi males. And there is such an insensitive to be seen as by as opposed to gay.
Either way, I don’t have an unshakable belief about it. It’s possible that the fluidity of male sexuality could be influenced by culture. And I have a hard time dealing in absolutes and saying that something doesn’t exist as a rule. Plus I know a lot of people probably object to the existence of bi-sexuality because it threatens the “integrity” of heterosexuality and indirectly casts doubt on the their own sexuality by setting up a paradigm where an attraction to women isn’t sufficient to rule out the possibility of being attracted to men. I don’t like being in the same camp as those people, but I have my doubts for different reasons.
So yeah, I’m not so sure why you believe so strongly in the spectrum.
You so cute when you debate.
x2
Your entire 1st paragraph explains my feelings to the T on bisexual males. Every guy that I know who said they were bisexual ended up being gay.
I found comments that Frank Ocean was profiteering over his alleged gayness, since it seems like the media makes a WAY bigger deal about sexual orientation than they need to. Frankly, I don’t get all the “coming out of the closet” stories dominating Google News about people who were never in it. Case in point: Johnathan Knight (New Kids on the Block) and Jim Parsons (The Big Bang Theory.) Both of them have been walking around openly gay all this time, but since they aren’t big stars, the tabloids didn’t care. It wasn’t until they happened to talk about their male partners in an interview it was like “He came out!”
They both reacted with 0___________O
This would be a moot point if Frank Ocean were a woman.
THIS!
I was thinking… if Rihanna admitted this, it would be an Instagram pic of her and Melissa and no one would bat an eye and her next tweet would be “F___ yall get bitches.” Or sumn like that.
Solange is a hipster, so the same thing.
Hell if Angela Bassett said it, we wouldn’t care.
A lot of pretense and drag goes into being a Black male. We have to change that.
Also there have been White men who have admitted the same as Frank Ocean. Hugh Jackman, Gavin Rossdale, Pete Wentz, James Franco…
WOW… I had no idea all of the other men had confessed this previously, and Pete Wentz is in freaking FALL OUT BOY. Quiet as a rat pissing on cotton. That’s crazy.
And I think you’re absolutely right. Not only are black men considered to be hyper sexual amongst other races, but even our by our own people to the extent where a situation like this occurs and we’re quick to call them gay and blast them all over the media, disregard their manhood and ostracize them.
But when Nicki Minaj did it, ppl were more focused on her @$$ than anything else.
Black people, we need to step our game up.
Sh!t is wack, son.
Actually half the people on that list just have rumors about their sexuality. And when you’re a celebrity that tends to happen
None of this will be put to rest until the black community comes to terms with understanding the psychology of sexuality. Psychologists have stated that there are 5 states of human sexuality. Hetero, Homo, Bi, Pan and deviant. At no time can a person be more than one unless you are a deviant. It is stated that people can move from one to the other. One big misconception that needs to be clearly understood is that curiosity and attraction ARE NOT basis of judging a persons sexuality. You actually HAVE TO ACT in order to take on the label. For instance lets take a male VIRGIN who is effeminate and has boy crushes. The vast majority of the black community will scream out “oh that boy is gay”. Guess what folks because he has never had sex he is neither hetero nor homo he is merely a virgin who likes boys. Sex determines sexuality. Another HUGE misconception is that there is a such thing as “gay tendencies”. A straight male cannot have gay sexual tendencies simply because there are no “acts” that are specifically applied to one group. (((sorry folks out there who think a man going anal on a woman is a gay tendency))). Sexual ACTS cannot be a tendency. Plus you should already know that whatever sexual acts gay men perform on each other there will ALWAYS be more straight people who perform said act on each other.
@Perverted Alchemist
I remember Tonex! One of my fave contempo Gospel artists. I had my suspensions when I saw the the cover ofis his gospel album, “Tonex O2.” Ive been a fan since 2000. He has amazing talent and great vocal ability.
Yeah, that album cover was…suspect as hell, LMAO!
*suspicions
Minaj is said to be bisexual and no one is trippin about that. Ambiguity with this issue is only tolerated when it comes to women. I totally agree that the heterosexuality label is on steroids when it comes to men.
a) we live in a patriarchal society
b) men want to see women fuck women and men
c) Women have the most fantasies about same sex relations (studies show)
So amazingly funny…I had the EXACT same conversation with some friends. I had the same viewpoints and very similar comments as you. Frank Ocean’s letter (whether fact or fiction) helped me to realize that we are all complex individuals with complex lives and labels are insignificant.
I don’t feel like he “came out” (not that he has to), but I believe that he had feelings for another man and it was as scarey and shocking for him just as it would be for anyone else.
Bottom line is…It doesn’t matter. His letter made me understand that. I get it now…One thing I am certain of though…I can not knowingly be with a man that has had feelings and/or have been intimate with another man.
Frank Ocean didn’t come out. He invited us in on a very personal and intimate part of his life.
well I’m not gonna lie I didn’t read the majority of the posts (got 1/3rd done), but human sexuality is not as clear cut as people would like to believe. It’s easy to label people, it’s a lazy way of thinking. Although, Frank Ocean did come out, falling in love with a man is the definition of being gay. But the reality is… who cares? If you don’t like it don’t listen to him.
let me be more specific about my thoughts, I don’t believe in bisexuality, therefore having thoughts about other men, in a sexual manner, is gay. Irrespective of the fact that he lays women. Countless gay men have fucked women for the sake of regressing their shame… only to come out later. Good for him, that took a lot of courage.