Theory & Essay

I Think I Hate Love

Gone.

Without fail, nary a day goes by where I don’t hear the phrase, “why do you hate love?” Of course, most of the time it’s said in jest but the truth is, I’m staring to wonder. I’m not against the institution of love at all. I’m happy for any and everybody who has found love in a hopeless place. I mean, love…so many people use your name in vain, but still, love and happiness is something that will make you do wrong, or make you do right.

Basically, love is the most powerful force on the planet. It’s not God. But God is love. Pain is also love.

Seriously, I could do this all day.

Anyway, back to my hating of love. While hate is definitely a strong word here, there are certain things about love that drive me absolutely batsh*t crazy. And hey God, it’s me Panama, most these observances have been helmed at the hands of the fairer sex and thee of boob. To be fair, I love the connection that two people who genuinely care about each other can and do make. And I’m not afraid of that connection. I think that I just draw a line at certain facets. Such as…

1. I hate the word “cuddle”

Seriously. On the list of words I hate most in life, cuddle has to be near the top. And nothing drives me more bonkers than a grown ass woman telling me that she wants to cuddle. For one, I’m not 3. Three year olds love premeditated cuddle time. They even look forward to it. My daughter LOVES having cuddle time with her mommy. And I love that she loves that. Me? Telling me that you can’t wait to cuddle with me sends me into Great Wall of China mode. And it isn’t even the act itself. It’s the word cuddle and the designation of a need for cuddle time. If we’re sitting on the couch, just scoot your happy ass over and get up under my arm or lay on my lap or whatever. We can cuddle. I just don’t want you to tell me that we’re cuddling. It sounds unmanly. It’s like telling me that I’ve got sass or something. Just don’t do it.

See also: “snuggle”

By the way, I’m sure there are men who will tell you (and will on this blog) that they love to cuddle and can’t wait to get home and snuggle up next to their boo and cuddle. Panama Dontavious Jackson? Is so not that dude. Like I said, let’s get close and hold one another and all that other stuff you see in movies. Just don’t think that if you tell me we need to have cuddle time that it’s the equivalent of sexting is all I’m saying.

2. I suck at PDA

It’s true. I do. But for valid reasons. Mostly for the handholding. GENERALIZATION ALERT! I don’t think women can walk in a straight line. AND I think most women aren’t that coordinated. So not only are we not walking lock-step, you also keep walking into me bumping me all over the damn sidewalk or against the rail on a cruiseship. I’d rather just let you walk next to me so that I can watch your movements and avoid you when necessary like Neo. It’s like a personal game of Frogger. I’ll hug you and stuff but I’m also not gonna slob you down in public. For one, I’ve got couth. Two, I know what couth means. For three, there’s a good chance that if I slob you down in public, we may get robbed on the way to the car (huh?) or worse, you may somehow think that means I want to have cuddle time. (See #1)

3. People who are overly affectionate scare me at times

I can be affectionate. But I think when people who are like soooooo affectionate that they have to constantly touching you, it makes me suspicious. Like, hmm…why arrrrrrrrre you touching me so much, Hands? Mostly I think they need puppies and things to squeeze like Elmira from Tiny Toons. In fact, yes, these women all remind me of Elmira from Tiny Toons. But that’s because I’m afraid that they’ll never let go. Which I’m fairly sure is an R&B song. But so. Exactly. Like hands off, Hands. I’ll swat you. Ok, I love you bye bye!

4. I can suck at verbal expression of love

I can write you something special and heartfelt with ease. I can also perform in front of huge crowds and not think twice about what I’m saying. Speaking one on one with somebody can be a very difficult endeavor for me. And that’s a problem. Put it in a song? No problem. Write it on papyrus and have King Tut autograph it? I’m about that life. Open up and say what’s on my heart? Someone please call 911. I’m an avoider of love apparently because it scares me or something.

So yeah, it’s possible that I hate love. Or at the very least am afraid of expressions of love that involve actual expression. I need help. I’m sure there’s no disagreement there.

The oddest part about all of this is that people like me usually end up with people who are SO excited to show and emote love that we drive each other crazy. How’s that for irony?

So what about you? How are you in your expression of love? Do you hate love too?? Or just suck at it like I do?

And by the way, I’m changing my name to Panama Lion. Or Panama Panther. Or better yet…Panama Leibowitz. Thank you.

Purge.

-VSB P aka THE ARSONIST aka MR. DON’T TOUCH ME IF YOU LOVE ME aka GIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIRL HE A 3

Don’t forget to RSVP for #REMINISCE this Saturday! http://reminiscedc.eventbrite.com. Peep the flyer for details and I’ll see you on Saturday.

Filed Under:
Damon Young

Panama Jackson is a co-founder of VSB and co-author of Your Degrees Won't Keep You Warm At Night: The Very Smart Brothas Guide to Dating, Mating, and Fighting Crime. He believes the children are our future and is waiting to find out if he is the 2nd most interesting man in the world.

  • http://testorshia.blogspot.com Tes

    Sounds like you don’t have love, you hate romance/romantic stuff.

    I’m actually really good at expressing my love. I over-love on ocasion just to make sure my dude knows he’s loved and cared about nsh*t. He on the other hand isn’t much for saying it, all grand gestures and Shakespearean sonnets, but when he tells me I’m dope and he’s happy we’re together? Same fuzzy tingles as when he says he loves me. *shrugs and smiles*

    I think the over-love/over-romance people and the slightly under-love/under-romance people make for an interesting couple, as if both people are over-lovers it gets weird and too affectionate and if they’re both under-lovers most people don’t know they’re together anyway.

    Rambling. I’mma stop now.

    • Rewind

      I dunno.

      Being the under-loving person while with an over-loving person can sometimes make you resent the over-loving person…because they should understand within a short amount of time, YOU DO NOT DO THINGS THE WAY THEY DO. But they keep forcing it on you. That’s not fair. Sometimes we just want to say “chill out, be cool”. You can still show me the same exact love without being so pressy about it, ergo respecting the feelings of your significant other. Like I said..I don’t know..can’t figure everyone feels like this, but I have heard these issues a time or two before.

      • http://testorshia.blogspot.com Tes

        As the over-lover to the under-lover, I understand where he’s coming from and respect his boundaries; I agree with you though, that if the over-lover doesn’t respect the under-lovers boundaries then it gets difficult. Some over-lovers though are just blinded by what they feel and by what they think the other person isn’t that they don’t respect the boundaries and push and push making the under-lover either feel like they aren’t doing enough or crowded.

        I’m not that kind of over-lover. I’m an over-lover who was typically an under-lover. I’m allowed to be an over-lover though; my dude is thousands of miles away.

        • http://www.katwebbmusic.com KitKatCuty84

          Honestly, I don’t think it’s over-loving vs. under-loving. I think it’s DIFFERENT loving. I love hard when I love. I cuddle, I do PDA, I share it verbally, I share it physically, I do all the above. I do not appreciate being with a person who does not do these things, because it makes me feel clingy and unwanted. As a result, I try to link myself with dudes who do the same thing. That way, everyone’s happy. I think the same could be said for those who prefer to be super discrete about their love; they could just find someone who matches their style and then there’d be no problems.

          • Rewind

            At least you are aware of what kind of lover you are. I’m the suttle kind, I don’t like being over affectionate, the PDA…I’m the exact opposite of you. But at least you’re aware of what you are, and you’d seek someone who’d appreciate that kind of affection. Quite often people don’t see that link, and just guilt trip someone into doing what they want.

            • http://www.katwebbmusic.com KitKatCuty84

              Yep. I’m aware and not ashamed. No one should be made to feel bad about how they love, whether it’s overtly or more subtle. I prefer overt. No swapping spit in public though. Kissing fine, but tonsel hockey? Not my thing. :)

              • Rewind

                *puts on my skates*

                LETS DO THIS!

          • http://testorshia.blogspot.com Tes

            I can certainly agree to that. We all love differently, we just have to find someone in tune with the way we love, or who’s way of loving compliments our own.

            • Rewind

              Which is a lot harder than we think. but wisdom comes in due time.

        • Rewind

          I get what you’re saying. I know when you really do care for someone, your feelings sometimes are over-emphasized. Not on purpose, you just love the way you feel, and mean no harm by it. But that’s why communication is the key, because if toes are being stepped on, then the matter is known and maybe a compromise can be made.

          • http://testorshia.blogspot.com Tes

            I think you’re right; it all boils down to communication, and if we’re being honest, so few people know how to do that effectively with people they don’t love, let alone with those they do.

            • Rewind

              True indeed. Communication is an art form and most people are poor at it. We can only enhance it if we are honest with ourselves about improving on it and not being content with what we have now.

            • Rewind

              True indeed. Communication is an art form and most people are poor at it. We can only enhance it if we are honest with ourselves about improving on it and not being content with what we have now.

  • http://www.twitter.com/Bmorebmw Tentpole

    Love is something you do not something you need to over analyze through excessive conversation. Everybody loves at their own pace. The problem happens when two love at different pace and can’t get in sync with each other.

    • http://twitter.com/itztrizz617 Tristan

      perhaps…but i just cant see myself wanting to hold hands with someone who doesnt, or calling her sugarbookieboo and im just itztrizz617 (yes adding insult to injury this hypothetical woman calls me by my twitter handle lol)

      • Breezy

        ROTFLMBO…..no she doesn’t! Stop lying….this has to be lies!

      • MJoy

        +1 Tristan

        I guess I’m a pretty romantic person. I can cuddle and hold hands and no I won’t walk in a straight line but I expect you to hold my hand anyway.

        If a person loves me but is always hinting that I should ‘back off’… that’ll just make me feel like ish, not think… oh he just loves differently. I’ll let you do you but when I do it, you better cherish my touches!

  • Not buying it

    Doesn’t sound like you hate love, P. Sounds more like you hate managing your partner ‘s expectations about love.

    • Mfundo

      Ditto

    • Rewind

      Don’t most of us run into that problem though?

      • http://voodoochile88.tumblr.com Craig and Dem

        Rewind we all do fa real tho. I sometimes just don’t feel the need to live up to this huge hype the girl got built up in her head. Trying to live up to ish is hard. But what’s worse is when you don’t even get near it. . . .That’s when everything goes to the South of Heaven

        • Rewind

          That’s what I have learned from my current relationship, that it is completely unfair to expect the person you are with to live up to the imaginary version we create in our heads. When we make up these expectations, we are discrediting the individuality of the person, ergo we don’t really see the person for who they really are, we are seeing them for who we want them to be….and that is unfair. That’s why I figured out how to stop but trying to get my girl to think the exact same way is hard as hell.

          • http://voodoochile88.tumblr.com Craig and Dem

            With those words sir you have caused a huge moment of clarity. In all my relationships I tried to live up to those expectations they have in their heads. I mean I went balls out of some of those relationships! (Girls car broke down next to a Hells Angel bar in deep south AZ) But when I asked for simple ish (like time for just me, 4 walls, and no one else) its this huge thing! Alot of them never figured out that relationships be a 2 way street. I gave huge they gave little and didn’t value my indivuality like they say they did. Thank you for that Rewind you have opened my eyes a little bit more today man

            • Rewind

              No problem Chuck. Trust me when I say that lesson was learned through blood, sweat, and tears after all these years, but I’m glad I finally figured it out. We don’t need to put our asses on the line for someone if they can’t see us for who we truly are, rather than what they want us to be. I realize that the girls in my life beforehand never truly cared or respected me as much as they respected the idea of what they thought I’d turn into with their influence. It’s a harsh reality to wake up to, but I feel better now because if I have to go back to dating, at least now I learned from my mistakes and won’t approach the next woman with the same tactics, I’ll be smarter about it, and now so will you.

          • http://tinawatkins.com Tina Watkins

            Hil. Larry. Yus. I’d say the whole post is summed up here: “I’m an avoider of love apparently because it scares me or something.”

            You have to figure out love for yourself first. If there’s a fear of rejection, abandonment, not being loved back or accepted it’s hard to open up to love and all its fun.

            Personally I’m always working to make sure I let go of being afraid to screw up, to be rejected, to not be loved back… Which is infinitely harder if you trust in and depend on other people to love you. Go straight to the highest source for love and you’re all good.

            Craig and Rewind’s thread is on point in talking about expectations. Don Miguel Ruiz’s Mastery of Love is a perfect read to clarify from all angles. It really drives home the point with very simple and effective language. Like, dude compared the perfect loving relationship partner to a dog. Not in a belittling sense, but to show a dog is perfect in itself and has no expectation. So there’s no pissed off, judgmental, resentful, disappointed response, ever.

            Y’all should make it a couple’s read.

            • Rewind

              That’s a good idea.

              • Alia

                But is it really love if you have no expectations of the other person? I think expectations, dreams and hopes are all part of relationships. Making the them sync is the million dollar project. If someone had no expectations of me, I’d start to question how honest my partner is with himself…

  • Leslie

    Your posts are funny. new reader here. Guys like you are funny because it seems like you have walls up. There are many men AND women like this. I hope you find a woman that is able to balance you out or maybe when you find someone that makes you happy you will begin to love love.

    Leslie

    • Breezy

      Yup and welcome! He has from his prototype yet…dats all.

    • http://verysmartbrothas.com Panama Jackson

      welcome to the house. please wipe your feet at the door.

      ive deifnitely got walls up. but i know it and im working on tearing them down.

    • Nikki

      I guess I would be the woman equivalent of PJ. I’m not a fan of PDA, over touching and such. I don’t feel the need to talk about cuddling (although we engage in the action quite frequently) nor am I overly verbal in expressing myself. I feel that actions speak louder than words. Luckily for me my man is the same way and completely understands and acknowledges all non verbal clues.

  • https://twitter.com/cnote220 Cheech

    See I probably just suck at my expression of love. I have friends who will blatantly make out in front of you mid -sentence and then continue the conversation. That’s OD to me and I totally get the list but love in itself isn’t that bad, I had a homegirl who love to spoon like crazy…problem was I am like a space heater so when she would try to spoon it would feel like the Sahara Desert heat-wise and I would have to turn away, which got her bent out of shape. Sometimes ppl’s expressions of love just aren’t compatible with a person so you have to adapt.

    • http://www.styleillusions.com WIP

      I tend to be cold all the time and my SO is like a heater so it’s a perfect match, LOL. I can’t get with the making out to an audience though. Hearing the spit swap live is not wassup.

      • Rewind

        Noooooo WIP. That’s so wrong. It’s so mean. Why would you interrupt my nice warmness by bring your freezing self all on me under the blanket and creeping the hell out of my sensory system with that first cold touch.

        I might shed a tear just remembering how frustrating that is during the winter time.

        • http://www.styleillusions.com WIP

          LOL, well I guess that’s his little sacrifice for me. I make it up to him.

          • Rewind

            Evil!

            At least you admit it.

      • http://voodoochile88.tumblr.com Craig and Dem

        My girl and I are like this. I got a regular body temp of 100 all day evry day that’s to living in the Valley of the Sun most of my life (AZ Stand Up!) but she is just a freezer!!! Like she loves being all close to me when we sleep and what not, but sometimes I wanna fight her on this. I’m dead asleep and she puts her Alaskan Snow Globe Cold feet on me and I’m WOKEN UP IN A SCARE!

        • ThatOneAKA

          ROTFLMBAO! I must confess to doing this exact same thing to my sweetie. I think it’s just physiology…women have more adipose tissue than men, while men (generally) have more muscle, thus more metabolic activity=more heat production. Just to be close to you and your warmth. No Lionel Richie :P

        • http://verysmartbrothas.com Panama Jackson

          thats hilarious.

        • MJoy

          I’m all for snuggling EXCEPT for when we’re sleeping. I don’t care what your body temp is… move the heck away from me.

          • Nikki

            + 1

  • c-real

    “Everybody needs a glass of water today, to chase the hate awaaaay! And everybody needs somebody to looooove, before its too late, its toooooo laaaate!” (All and together now!) Panama is a…”Love Hater! Love Hater, hater of love. Love Hater! ” What? Too early for the Love Below? Ah well.

    • http://pinchmycheekie.wordpress.com Cheekie

      LOL despite the shots, I think Panama may actually enjoy this for the reference.

    • http://verysmartbrothas.com Panama Jackson

      its never too early for the love below.

      • http://pinchmycheekie.wordpress.com Cheekie

        TWSS

  • http://blackmedici.wordpress.com Black Medici

    Loving women is easy, liking women is hard. Love is buying them a necklace; liking them is holding their hand and kissing them in public. Love is you doing stuff that makes you happy, Like is doing stuff that makes them happy. Many women are loveable, few are likeable when it comes to relationships.

    Romance requires that you like a woman, love requires nothing. You can love a woman for a day, a night, an hour, and it costs you nothing when you don’t have that anymore. You can love her hair, her laugh, her physique, her essence, her style and just as that can come quick, you can get over it quickly. When you like a woman, it’s harder to leave her, it’s harder to yell at her, because her feelings matter, her pain matters and you’re invested.

    For women it’s all the opposite, what love is to them is what like is to us, and vice versa.

    • She Who Reads

      You nailed it. It’s the difference between like and love that’s got Peez all kerfluffled.

      I never thought about it this way, but it makes perfect sense.

    • Meisarebel

      Interesting take. I’m not saying I agree completely, but I can see the logic in this argument, and perhaps even support it to a degree. Mainly because I believe love is selfish. Which is not meant to be taken negatively. In fact, just the opposite. Connotations be damned.

      • http://fourpageletter.wordpress.com keisha brown

        co-sign
        *still stroking chin

    • YeahSo

      Why is it so hard to like us? I like men. I think you guys are fun and interesting… I love being around y’all and I love being around my homegirls. We’re all so much more similar than we are different. I don’t get why y’all make getting along with us sound like a prison sentence.

      • A Woman’s Eyes

        I am very likeable.

        • A Woman’s Eyes

          and men tend to like me. Even those who claim not to like anybody will start showing signs of actually genuinely liking me as a person.

          • YeahSo

            Right, well I’m likeable too but guys are always talking about now they don’t like being around their woman, which is crazy to me because I don’t ever hear women saying they don’t like being around their man.

            • A Woman’s Eyes

              It is because their woman is annoying or they get bored with her seeing her all the time.

              • YeahSo

                Lol… you are not helping.

                • A Woman’s Eyes

                  hahahahahahaha

      • http://blackmedici.wordpress.com Black Medici

        Lol, because most women aren’t trying to be liked in relationships, they’re trying to be loved. When a relationships starts though women want to be liked, so they’re cool. They respect your time, your space, your schedule and they accept whatever a man gives them. However, as time progresses, wanting to be liked gets replaced with wanting to be loved. Women try less to be likeable over time. When you like someone, you respect their boundaries, you respect the fact that there are things they just don’t want to talk about, that sometimes they need time for themselves. When you’re in love, you believe you’re one with the person and that their should be no boundaries. And for guys, no boundaries, is like being in prison.

        • YeahSo

          Ok, I was with you until this “When you’re in love, you believe you’re one with the person and that their should be no boundaries. And for guys, no boundaries, is like being in prison.”
          -What are supposed to do with that? Y’all gotta work with us and be realistic. Relationships are 50/50. I think men need to learn and appreciate sacrificing for their women like women do for them. Like I realize sacrifice is so innate for us… we sacrifice our bodies for our children, our independence for our men, our money for our hair *tear* (that natural hair struggle is REAL)… when do we start getting sacrificed for? Why is so hard for y’all to sacrifice your pride to be open with women?

          • http://blackmedici.wordpress.com Black Medici

            All you just said is simply a women’s POV.

            I once heard a comedian make this joke – “Let’s say me and my girl play the lottery, if she wins the lottery I’m like ‘Damn, She won the lottery!’ If I win the lottery, she’s like “Damn, We won the lottery!”

            Women think in terms of “We”, Men think in terms of “You and I.” Women assume that in relationships, if they’re happy there man aught to be happy as well, or there has been some form of miscommunication. Most men know that just because they’re happy, doesn’t mean their women are happy.

            In fact, a relationship begins to go downhill the moment a man thinks in terms of “We” because he begins to think that if he’s happy, his woman is automatically happy. He thinks he can watch NBA Hardwood Classics for 8 hrs straight on a weekend, and be having a good time, while his wife is sitting down with her legs crossed, and hands folded wondering why they’re not doing something fun together on his one day off. He thinks she’s having as good a time as he has, watching MJ’s Flu game for the 100th time.

          • A Woman’s Eyes

            Technically people should WANT to sacrifice. Some do not. It builds resentment. Sacrifice can be interpreted as feeling you have to do something you absolutely do not want to do, but are going to have to do or your partner in their limited view of love will believe you don’t love him/her.

            Its best when people are willing participants in a relationship.

            • Rewind

              And we have a winner!

            • YeahSo

              I meant to tell you I totally agree with this. I hope what I mentioned up top didn’t give the impression of otherwise.

        • Meisarebel

          Ok. I fux with this.

        • http://wildcougarconfessions.com Wild Cougar

          I think you just don’t like women. Because they’re not men. There are lots of men who do like women and all of the things they do that are different from men. Those are the best types to be around.

          • http://blackmedici.wordpress.com Black Medici

            To be liked, you got to be likeable. I got women that I like because they’re likeable…you don’t need to stand up to pee, to be likeable. I just don’t like people because of their nature, that’s something you do with animals.

            • http://wildcougarconfessions.com Wild Cougar

              It’s blaringly obvious to anyone who has read just a few of your comments that you simply don’t like women.

              • http://blackmedici.wordpress.com Black Medici

                You’re right. I love women, I just don’t like most of them. Mostly, because they want you to like them on their own terms. Speak to them on their own terms, that’s not something that makes you like someone.

                • http://www.katwebbmusic.com KitKatCuty84

                  Doesn’t everyone want you to deal with them on their own terms? I don’t want you to deal with me on Lil Wayne’s terms and I won’t deal with you on Alicia Keys’s terms. How is that fair to say it’s a fault to want to be treated how you want to be treated? Confused…

                  • A Woman’s Eyes

                    I am falling out laughing over Lil Wayne and Alicia Keys terms.

                    When we deal with people, we have to meet them halfway. If we stomp in with YOU GONNA MEET ME ON MY TERMS, they’re gonna interpret that as YOU AND YOUR TERMS DONT MEAN SHYTE TO ME. DO ME ONLY OR GO AWAY!

                    I wouldn’t meet you anywhere if I was a hetero man or lesbian and you came at me like that.

                    • YeahSo

                      smh… d*ck logic.

                  • http://blackmedici.wordpress.com Black Medici

                    Women always say that, but in the end, it’s always meet me “my way.” The problem with what you’re saying is that it’s never the case in “reality”, and that’s what gets dudes upset. Anytime a girl tells me anything that has to do with sacrifice, 50/50, compromise etc, I look in to my hourglass and look into the future, and what I always see is 100% her way.

        • http://www.katwebbmusic.com KitKatCuty84

          No boundaries is like being in prison? Is this a paradoxical statement or what?

          • YeahSo

            Chile… smh.

          • http://blackmedici.wordpress.com Black Medici

            When taken out of context – of course it is.

      • Rewind

        Because many of us men encounter the same problem: the women we’ve been with in our lives have forced us to do things that we truly don’t like or actually make us uncomfortable so that she can feel accepted and cherisched. In the end, it looks like an ego boost if a woman can get her man to accept the nickname “snuggle bunny” but it does, for some men, take away our masculinity. We are fine showing our love and appreciation in a certain manner, but when someone is telling us we don’t care about her unless we show her love the way she wants it (and it’s not like we know any better until getting burned by this a time or two), it does create a bit of resentment.

    • Mfundo

      Huh!?

      • sunshyne84

        exactly lmao

    • http://www.twitter.com/think2inspire Think2Inspire

      Interesting Mr. Medici, Black. You are right about love and like. I love milkshakes but am lactose intolerant and do not like the side effects that come with consuming one.

      In my experiences with courtship and sh*t, I’ve found that at the end of the day if you don’t like that person just run while you can. Anyone can have sex with a person they don’t like but few of us can build a successful relationship with someone we don’t like. I often see old couples where one party is giving the other an EPIC side-eye because after 50-11 years they still don’t like that person.

    • http://verysmartbrothas.com Panama Jackson

      all very interesting insights. seriously something to ponder in life when it comes to relationships.

    • Rewind

      Love & like…I guess it’s based on perception. I think it’s more in the matter of respect. If you care, then you should respect. But respecting something you don’t do yourself nor truly enjoy simply to make someone else happy is HARD, especially if it is requested consistently. Who knows, there must be a right answer somewhere.

      • http://blackmedici.wordpress.com Black Medici

        It’s not that hard.

        I love my mom and my dad, I love my sisters and my brothers. I want the best for them, I’ll sacrifice for them, I’ll kill for them etc. However, I don’t want to go to the club with them. I want to go to club with my boys or with some women so we can have a great time. I go with my family, I gotta worry about who’s drinking too much, and who I’m going to have to drive home, if we came in separate cars. I gotta worry that somebody is trying to put a finger up my sister’s skirt.

        • Rewind

          Medici, that’s different. You’re taking care of family, and if they ask you to do things you don’t like, as long as it does not outwardly offend the kind of person you are, you aren’t losing much by doing it. This problem is when someone is consistently asking you to be someone you are not, to do things that don’t make you feel comfortable, simply because they feel this how you prove that you care. That’s not fair, nor is it fun. Going to a club with your parents is a nusciance, while picking up your drunk parents from the club because once again they went overboard and damn near got arrested for the 6th time this month is a totally different story.

      • A Woman’s Eyes

        ” But respecting something you don’t do yourself nor truly enjoy simply to make someone else happy is HARD, especially if it is requested consistently.”

        Yes it is.

        • Rewind

          Success! See every body, the two genders can agree on something.

          • Zar000

            “But respecting something you don’t do yourself nor truly enjoy simply to make someone else happy is HARD, especially if it is requested consistently”
            Totally agree.

            Also why would you keep doing it? Yes you want to make that person happy but eventually you resent that person…

            • Rewind

              Well I said this before but, it’s not like when you’re young and unaware of how complex dating is that YOU DON’T HAVE TO DO SOMETHING YOU DON’T LIKE just to make someone else happy. All of us have not learned this lesson, not equally if that. You might have figured it out at 19, I didn’t figure it out til 26. We all learn this stuff at different times for different reasons.

    • http://commentarybyvalentina.wordpress.com Val

      “Loving women is easy, liking women is hard”

      That’s sad. But I think a lot of men only like women for sex and then they’d just rather hang with their boyz.

      • http://blackmedici.wordpress.com Black Medici

        Now did you ever think that it’s because their boys are much more fun to be around?

        • Kema

          I think they just really like men

      • Rewind

        Sex is fun. Talking to a woman after sex when your mental wavelength and hers are in two different places is not. At least with sex, both parties want it. A conversation may be a different story. Especially if the topic only interests one party. And let’s be real, women have this same issue with men. You might like being around us sometimes, but if he wants to watch every sport imaginable quite often, you’d rather be with your own friends.

        • Breezy

          Nope…am right there with him…keeping the party going during commercial breaks…but that’s me.

          • Rewind

            Yea but you said it…that’s you.

            I barely know of any women who’d tolerate the 30-second highlight clip of a sports game let alone the full thing, but I understand that’s not their interest, just like Love & Hip-Hop or any other fakality tv show isn’t my thing.

      • demondog06

        ding ding!

        to be frank, women and men generally don’t have a lot of the same interests…..

        and while dudes may like to spend time with our chicks….there’s a camaraderie that you can really only get for from your fellows.

        pay attention to dudes that you may know who are married but have little if any male friends. they look depressed and defeated.

        trust me i got alot of frat brothers who are married with kids..and when they can get out with the fellas….usually other neutered married men, there’re like school kids again

        • A Woman’s Eyes

          ” pay attention to dudes that you may know who are married but have little if any male friends. they look depressed and defeated.”

          TRUTH.COM

    • http://testorshia.blogspot.com Tes

      Khalil Gibran once said of love that it doesn’t give of anything but itself and doesn’t ask of anything but itself and for that reason love is a simple thing that requires none too much. What you said reminds me of that.

      And I agree. Women out here want to be chose, thinking that’s gonna solve all our problems; we want to be loved because we believe (and are told) loved women are happier, better, worthier women. All of us are loved, maybe not the way we want but we all are…What was I saying?

      Oh yeah. I liked being liked. Being liked is awesome. Being loved, though, is kinda dope too.

      • Rewind

        Being loved can be awesome if things don’t go from one extreme to the next after being liked.

        If you like weird stuff but didn’t tell me when I liked you, you should realize once I fall in love, I will have a hard time accepting it because a) I had no heads up & b) now you want me to embrace something about you to the fullest I never knew about without my consent on if I was comfortable with it.

        I feel like if you take your time and lay things out honestly, transitioning from like to love should be fawking stupendeous.

        • http://testorshia.blogspot.com Tes

          I think when like blossoms to love it’s the best feeling because it feels more organic than just fallin in love out of nowhere.

          • A Woman’s Eyes

            Sex is a powerful thing. Have you had sex yet?

            • http://testorshia.blogspot.com Tes

              O_O uhm…why?

              • YeahSo

                *hand on hip* WELL MISSY HAVE YOU!??!??!

              • A Woman’s Eyes

                Because sex has a way of taking certain blinders off once the dopamine wears off. Romance is a construct. You learn so much through how a man treats you when he’s shared that experience with you especially if he wants to maintain that relationship or exit it.

                • http://testorshia.blogspot.com Tes

                  Well yes, once or twice. How does that change or prove anything though? o.O

          • Rewind

            I want to believe that, but I’ve just never seen it.

      • A Woman’s Eyes

        Hate to break it to you but some of the problems in relationships between men and women are women wanting men to love her WHO DO NOT LOVE HER LIKE THAT! A man who doesn’t enjoy your company after sex REALLY IS NOT THAT INTO YOU. He’s just tolerating you.

        I don’t want to be tolerated. I want to be savored, appreicated and left alone to my own devices sometimes so that when we get together again we have something to talk about.

        I don’t want to be tolerated like I’m the annoying girlfriend/wife.

        • Rewind

          But too often women don’t get that, no matter how advice columns she reads, friends she asks, male friends who give her the real truth, or websites she visits. Some people are just solely focused on what they want and refuse to see the other scenario may be in play, the one where they fail. And no woman should want to be merely tolerated, but it’s funny because how many women could tolerate themselves if they could be cloned and spend time with their exact equal?

          • A Woman’s Eyes

            “it’s funny because how many women could tolerate themselves if they could be cloned and spend time with their exact equal?”

            We’d be right sick of ourselves. Women seek out qualities in men that are different and unique from their own qualities. So it makes sense for that match to happen because BOTH ENJOY EACH OTHER’S COMPANY and ENJOY TIME APART TOO.

          • A Woman’s Eyes

            ” no woman should want to be merely tolerated, but it’s funny because how many women could tolerate themselves if they could be cloned and spend time with their exact equal?”

            Sophie from The Color Purple rocked. But the way Harpo looked at her? Do we really want a man to look at us like that, especially after telling him what we wanna do and expecting that, and not doing anything he wants to do. Harpo should have gotten his mule and LEFT waaay before he thought he could hit her.

    • nillalatte

      Ugh… the Arab mentality strikes again… even the responses suck. Well, they do. At least you get a lot of feedback from folks trying to figure you out. For me, it just gives me a mofo headache! I can’t.

      • A Woman’s Eyes

        Blast out the ideas, Nilla, so we can stop promoting them. I admit to my own occasional sexism. I think like a man because it is effective in dealing with men.

        • nillalatte

          I’ve had a lot of guys tell me I think like a man, except one. When dealing with ‘men’ I stop to consider that they are simple creatures, usually. It’s the complex ones that send me into the deep waters without a life vest.

          But, BM, here, he’s got the Arab culture that is totally a different mind set about women and focuses entirely on the needs and desire of the man; a woman is there for his pleasure, seeks only to please him, has little or no identity of her own outside the home. FUDGE that! I lived that and was tolerant of that for a LONG time. No more. Denying who I am is like denying me air to breathe. It is suffocating. And, that may be why it’s all about doing me now and phuck any man that doesn’t appreciate who I am and what I desire to achieve.

          • Rewind

            Roar Nilla, ROAR!

            Medici is Medici, can’t fault him for it, especially when there is time in life where he may change, just as you did.

            So don’t stress it, just see it for what it is…his thoughts, and that’s all. Not the rules of the world.

          • http://blackmedici.wordpress.com Black Medici

            Hmmm, let me explain to you how the whole concept of Black Medici came about, and then maybe afterwards, you can explain to me and others, how what I say or represent is an expression of Arab Culture.

            I, for the most part, a couple years ago was a moderate male feminist. I supported most feminist ideas, I even supported the whole women deserve half of a man’s this, half of a man’s that, it’s my body rheotric etc. However, something happened to me and what you see today is a reflection of that. There was a study that came out, a couple years ago, around when this recession began in 2008, that only 47% of black boys were graduating from high school. Whereas, with black girls, the number was I guess in the 70′s or 80′s. As I read the article, I began to read the commentary at the bottom. I saw the males blaming the women for being single mothers, and the women blaming deadbeat dads, and no good brothas etc. I didn’t get involved in the arguments, I just lurched. And after awhile reading all the comments I got sick.

            I started reading more about the article, mostly from feminist websites or articles written mostly by women, it seemed they were the only ones who had any strong opinions on the issue. And the more I read, the more I began to see 2 consistencies. 1. Men had gotten lazy and unmotivated. 2. It was good to see that women, including black women were exceling in their education pursuits.

            The more I began to think about these things, the more I began to ask my self, aren’t we all about a 50/50 results society? I mean, that’s what living in a pro-female society is? It’s about equality, it’s about raising women up since they’ve been oppressed and still are oppressed all their lives. It’s about raising all of us to an equal playing field right? I mean we pass affirmative action, because it’s not fair right? But then I looked at the facts, various women groups were celebrating about: Like how women were finally graduating more out of school than men and stuff, and I asked myself isn’t that a problem? I asked women in my personal life, and though I could tell they were bothered by it, there was one thing they refused to see, and couldn’t open up their minds to think about:

            All women today are unwilling or unable to accept the fact that this society we live in today, doesn’t have men’s (especially straight men), interest at heart. I mean I read in the newspapers all about how well women were doing, how much progress they’d been making in the work place, and I see how bad the numbers were for men and how absolutely nothing was being done by the government to do anything about that. And not only that, how much women were complaining about the lack of quality men around – no one saw the connection.

            The connection is that the vast majority of men today are weak, plain and simple. They’re weak in terms of maturity, weak in terms of mental strength, weak in terms of education and the ability to think clear and objectively, weak in terms of responsibility, weak in terms of their economic and financial sense etc. They’re weaker than their grandfather’s generation and the generation before that, and women today are living through it and are being affected negatively by it. However, their idea of strong men today, isn’t based on what a strong man is, but what a strong man is in a society that produces and doesn’t give a damn about weak men is.

            Now what Black Medici represents is what strong men are supposed to be. You say what you feel, you argue till you’re proven wrong, if you’re not proven wrong you stand by it, and reality will reveal the truth. It’s not in sync with the culture that exists today which is solely concerned about uplifting women, and leaving weak ass men to figure it out on their own. It’s not in sync with a society today that is more concerned with people being phony, cheerful and politically correct, than a society where people are completely honest with each other, even if that leads to quarelling and conflict. It’s not in sync with a society where passive aggression and acting like what you’re not is in vogue.

            When I come on vsb and I make my comments about this and that about women, I’m not talking about all women all across the world (I should do a better job at saying that), I’m talking about the nature of women in a society who are being uplifted into positions of strength at the expense of men who are being left in their positions of weakness, to fend for themselves, and who most of us don’t even give a damn about.

            I mean, how many MLKs, Malcolm Xs, Muhammad Alis etc, does our generation produce today? In that generation of men, a man like Barack H Obama would not even be able to speak in the midst of such giants; yet that is the best we can do today, and we celebrate him as though he is amannah from heaven, but in reality he is simply the man with one good eye in a village filled with blind people.

            I don’t advocate putting women in positions of weakness. I don’t advocate servitude. For crying out loud, you would think that all the times I’ve said men have to put in work to get what they want out of women, that at least I would be granted the decency of not being categorized as a man who views relationships from an Arab perspective. But nowadays, the way this society is going, I’m not really surprised. Like the dark ages in Europe, most strong men are viewed like gods, not because they had some divine power, but because society no longer knows how to produce them. I might as well be accused of blashphemy.

            • nillalatte

              Honey, there is nothing wrong with the way you think for your culture. The way you think or maybe how I perceive you think is very different in my experience. Mostly, without fail, when you write about men/women and their roles as you see them to be, my mind reverts back to the only other culture that I know thinks like you write and that is the Arab/Islamic culture (albeit many Middle Eastern/Islamic cultures are like this too). Granted, maybe my experience was a bit more conservative because he and his family are Shiite.

              I don’t see men as weak. I see them as human and each has a journey in life to travel. How one chooses to travel that journey is entirely up to them. I can hear it now with these words that my mind set is that of ‘white privilege.’ Well, then so be it. But, if a person frees their mind to what is possible without regard to whether they are male or female, black or white, fat or skinny, etc., etc. wonderful things can and often do happen for those people because they don’t limit themselves to others expectations.

              I don’t want a man limiting me in any way or telling me that I don’t have wants, needs, desires, aspirations that can’t be met because my life is all about pleasing him, which is my read on many of your posts. By the same token, I don’t want to limit a man from his fullest potential either. I want to lift him up, encourage him to be better, do better, enjoy his life, support him in his endeavors.

              You can’t be responsible for anyone in this life except for you. If people are not willing to take that responsibility and do something constructive and positive, then that is on them.

              • http://blackmedici.wordpress.com Black Medici

                The reality is that all my posts on here, I never say women have to do anything, except that if they want the relationship they desire that they’re ultimately going to have to acquire a male POV, which the vast majority of them don’t.

                I never imply force, or tell a woman to forgo her own needs for a man, if anything I tell men not to forgo their needs to a woman, yet in this society, those two things are basically the same. When I say to guys put yourself first, I’m telling men to be selfish. If I tell women to put themselves first, I’m empowering them. If I tell men persuade your woman to be what you want her to be, I’m saying manipulate or deceive your woman. If I tell a woman to persuade a guy to be what she wants him to be, then I’m giving her game. I’m not annoyed at the misconstruction and misinterpretation of what I’m saying, because what I’m saying isn’t the norm, if anything it’s blasphemous in our society today and obviously few minds are open to hearing what I say objectively.

                But as I said before, I’ll argue with you, and if I don’t feel like I’m wrong, I will let reality be the judge. If you’re right and the only solution to all our problems is simply an open mind, then reality will show that to me, and I will change and I will look back at my foolish commentary and how dumb and ignorant I was. However, if reality shows that I am correct and that our problems are much more than simply an open mind, well all I will say is I told you so.

                • nillalatte

                  “if they want the relationship they desire that they’re ultimately going to have to acquire a male POV”

                  I don’t think that is true either because you then strip the woman of any individuality in a relationship. Acquiring a male POV is like saying he is the only one that determines if the relationship thrives or survives. He is the only person in the relationship that holds the power. That is simply wrong, and that is where I read in the Arab culture and mentality. Believe me, the ex thought he held all the power too. He learned different.

                  BM, I have a fairly open mind, but I’ll tell you exactly what I told a judge… a man’s rights cease when he imposes upon my rights. Somewhere there has to be a boundary and that boundary includes respect for one another. I respect your opinion, but I don’t agree with it and the reason I don’t is because it is simply male-centric and comes to me as female domination. Some women might be cool with that. I just happen to be one who is not.

                  • http://blackmedici.wordpress.com Black Medici

                    And as long as you hold on to the myth that this is a 50/50 centric society, rather than a female centric society, everything I say will sound like male domination. As long as the idea that we are a society that cares about men and women equally still exists in the minds of most people, then everything I say will “sound” like abuse. You can’t evade reality forever.

  • http://uphereoncloud9.wordpress.com/ Wu Young, Agent of M.E.

    I suck at expressing love verbally at times. When I do it’s simple and to the point. I will not engage in any “Why do you love me?/Beyonce song” type conversations though. Folks just have to understand that expressing affection and love varies for different people. Partners have to adapt to each other in that manner.

    • YeahSo

      Omg… you’re a Beyonce fan? I never would have guessed. How do you about “why don’t you love me” (that was hilarious btw)… that song ain’t that popular is it?

      • http://uphereoncloud9.wordpress.com/ Wu Young, Agent of M.E.

        Nah, I’m not a Beyonce fan. I Don’t hate her/don’t love her but that song sprang to mind when I read this post. I actually heard that song when it was performed by Grace Potter. Her version has a different tone to it than Beyonce’s. I saw the video for B’s version and it came off as clingly where Potter’s version was like you’re a damn fool for not wanting this monkey. Both are well done songs. I’ll compare it to Stevie’s version of “Lately” and Jodeci’s. I didn’t believe Stevie was that upset but I sure as hell believed the Haley brothers.

        • Rewind

          That’s because K-Ci sounds like he was crying his ass off drunk on Henny while singing it.

          • http://uphereoncloud9.wordpress.com/ Wu Young, Agent of M.E.

            Exactly. No one was a calm as Stevie when their other is out getting some other.

            • Rewind

              That’s why everytime I hear the Stevie version, my soul shivers. Cause you got to be all cried out to get to that type of “calm”.

        • YeahSo

          I’m gonna have to check that Grace Potter rendition out… I love hearing different perspectives of the same song. Thanks.

          • YeahSo

            I like… nice man.

            • http://uphereoncloud9.wordpress.com/ Wu Young, Agent of M.E.

              See… see…

        • http://testorshia.blogspot.com Tes

          Grace Potter’s version was more like “Why the hell wouldn’t you love me?” and Beyonce’s is more “Whhhhhhhhhhy!?! *shakes fist at the sky* ” I keep both on my iPod though so… :)

          Wu, for some reason I am never surprised by your music choices. :D

          • http://uphereoncloud9.wordpress.com/ Wu Young, Agent of M.E.

            Those are great descripitions of the song.

            Thanks!

    • A Woman’s Eyes

      You may suck at expressing love verbally but I bet your actions express love. Men’s actions tells the truth about themselves & their feelings about you. And I don’t mean the sappy “Ohhh he bought me flowers” crap. But he fixed my car and I didn’t even ask him to do so, and was going to take it to the shop. Or he called and said would you have lunch with me, I’m cooking and cooked this wonderful meal for me.

      • miss t-lee

        I agree with this. It’s definitely more about action with some guys.

        • Rewind

          Because most men were never taught how to deal with their emotions, so communicating verbally will not be our cup of tea, but producing results will be.

          • Breezy

            A man’s actions are ALWAYS his words.

            • Rewind

              Not always. We screw up. We do shyte and don’t even know why we did it. But that’s life..at least we try though.

      • http://uphereoncloud9.wordpress.com/ Wu Young, Agent of M.E.

        True. I’ve rolled around on cold pavement looking at a busted starter before. Actions, definetly, actions.

      • nillalatte

        “Men’s actions tells the truth about themselves & their feelings about you.”

        Pow… and she knocks it right out of the park!!! EXACTLY. And, I can’t stand it when they start talking crazy like I didn’t SEE their love in action.

        This is one thing I hate about certain men. They tell me they didn’t say this or that and totally, intentionally try to make me feel psycho. Want your walking papers? Try to play me like you don’t think I listen or have eyes. I watch. I listen. I remember. Just because I don’t always call you out, doesn’t mean that I ain’t keeping notes.

        • A Woman’s Eyes

          Women have to WATCH what he does! I look at actions first always, because men love to bullshit with words LOL

          • A Woman’s Eyes

            free me please!

  • http://genxaestheticism.com eve

    Please tell me that isn’t really your middle name.

    Etymology please???

    Love you, Panama :) :) :) cuddle-cuddle :) :) :)

    • http://verysmartbrothas.com Panama Jackson

      well how disappointed would you be if i also told you that Panama Jackson isn’t my real name anyway? LOL.

      • http://fourpageletter.wordpress.com keisha brown

        hee hee…

  • https://twitter.com/#!/IluminatiNYC Todd

    Personally, I’d rather like. Remember the Ne-Yo song “Can We Chill?” If all relationships were like the sentiments in that song, I’d be OK. I’d say more, but according to the VSSs, I’ve met nothing but evil women that don’t resemble normal ones. That’s all I’ll say to that. :)

    • Rewind

      You know this is a a battle we can never win. Apparently we’ve made horrible choices in women but no one sees the correlation between the women we grew up with and the women we ended up with. I see no point in telling any woman that all guys aren’t bad, because if she can’t figure that out for herself, then she won’t realize she’s the problem, not just them. There are millions of women out there, and a few dozen women online can’t account for them anymore than the men recounting their stories can. It should just be accepted that these things happened, and mistakes were made by both parties, without all of us being chastised.

      In a perfect world of course.

      • http://www.twitter.com/IluminatiNYC Todd

        I think the issue is that it’s hard for most people, though especially women, to conceive of women as abusive and evil. It’s not that people don’t believe in the possibility in women being abusive, but when presented with a case involving actually flesh-and-blood children and women, unless there is some incredible sign of cruelty above and beyond the usual evidence, they’re more likely to give a woman the benefit of the doubt. An abusive man with mental illness is an abusive man first and foremost, while an abusive woman with mental illness is a woman with mental illness first and foremost.

        I know on my end, I got away somewhat lucky inasmuch as I wasn’t sexually abused by multiple women like my brother was. Still, my mom was cruel as hell, being regularly verbally abusive and trying to set me and my brother against each other for the most random of reasons. Even after I graduated school and I needed money for job interviews, I had to work random temp office manager jobs just to be able to pay for mass transit to get to interviews since my mom refused to give me money. Seeing as that many of the jobs in my field were in the suburbs, that would be a problem. It took me several years to recover from that and eventually get where I needed to go, and I’m still bitter about that. (Of course, it makes my current predicament even more angering, but that’s another story.)

        The sad thing is that as much lip service as people pay to “women abuse too”, they don’t put much actions behind their words. Simply put, men are considered the abusers until proven otherwise, and women are filled with goodness and light until proven otherwise.

        • http://testorshia.blogspot.com Tes

          Historically, women are set up to be these things of love and light and “do no harm” as we were thought too dumb and docile to ever do anything against anyone, save other women and, in the beginning when women “started” to kill were often set free (i.e. Lizzie Borden).

          I think it’s hard for society to wrap their minds still around abusive women, although with the way certain sects of women are portrayed on television and media, the way they so easily abuse other women, I can’t imagine why. I’ve always been aware some women are just harsh and evil for no other reason except they can be, and the same is for men, but it’s a person to person basis. The group think has to change.

          • Rewind

            It’s almost the same problem as Black people as a whole. We want to keep bring up past transgressions done against us as well and the unjust deeds done to us today, but barely can the whole group recognize our faults in the whole story. When the few try to point it out, the majority chastize and claim those views to be absolutely wrong. I don’t know what it would take for the whole group to understand that bad apples do exist and affect those around them, but they need to quit being in denial about it.

        • Rewind

          See, I totally understand everything you just said. While my mother was not a horrible parent, she was misguided in some of her beliefs that she instilled in me. Those beliefs I took as gospel, and treated all people with respect and diligence while in return, I was abused, tormented, and ridiculed. My mother required me to be a saint, and I felt her wrath if I wasn’t but as a child, not knowing any better, acting like a saint got me the worst ass whoopings of my life outside of the home. She did not pay that much attention to my mental or physical health until it was too late, and though I’m grateful she finally became aware, I will suffer for the rest of my life because of what she could have prevented but didn’t .

          Now to some, what we shared are rants of our past and how crappy life was. Woe is us. But for us, we know this is what started our screwed up understands of women and the weird relationships we had. We both accept the responsibility and realize that we can’t blame the past forever, but people need to acknowledge there is no such thing as “all women are good”. The women’s prison I fondly remember of my youth that my father worked at proved that wrong every single time.

        • A Woman’s Eyes

          I believe women can be abusive. That’s why certain women are called trifling women or trifling mothers. Yep yep. And they end up on the news. I know you’re keeping your eye out on your daughter.

          • https://twitter.com/#!/IluminatiNYC Todd

            Don’t remind me about trifling women. My daughter is with her in-laws, and the stuff I’ve seen has me paranoid every time she goes up there. She’s come back fine each time I’ve sent her. I’ve also had to block them from having them visit them without me being around for nearly a year while they went through court-mandated therapy. So I know trifling. Here’s to hoping the therapy sticks.

            • A Woman’s Eyes

              My prayers for your daughter & family on this.