I Can’t Root For The Knicks Anymore If Derrick Rose Is On Our Team » VSB

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I Can’t Root For The Knicks Anymore If Derrick Rose Is On Our Team

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I’ve experienced the sweet torture of being a New York Knickerbockers fan for almost my entire life.

So much of my youth was defined by major Knicks heartbreaks. There was the 1995 Eastern Semifinals against the Pacers. The ’97 Eastern Conference Semifinals against the Heat. The Finals when Olajuwon stole John Starks’ life force and refused to give it back.

Then there was — and unfortunately still is — the James Dolan era, a man I’ve spoken ill of more times than I can count. From six different coaches in seven seasons to every contract blunder you can think of (Eddy Curry, Allan Houston’s last one, every overinflated Melo figure, all things Marbury), to letting Isaiah Thomas run ANYTHING, if I got a chicken wing for every time I’ve loudly proclaimed “Fuck James Dolan” I’d quickly balloon up to the size of the 400-lb hackers Trump alleges are infiltrating our national party committees.

Through it all, I’ve remained loyal. A large part of this is that hometown sports fandom is intrinsically masochistic, and for New Yorkers especially more so; a large part of NYC “authenticity” is peppered by chest-puffing over how much you’ve seen and struggled through with a near-comically sadistic sense of pride. Only a city where its residents will brag about surviving taking the train when it was a legitimately dangerous mode of transportation or going through Times Square when it was a drug den and sex-worker haven can withstand the crushing blow of eight points in 11 seconds.

That said, for all of the demoralizing losses and abject failures, every so often there’s a glimmer of why you come to love your home team so much that you cling to those memories. Starks dunking on the entire Bulls organization. Game three of the 99 Finals against the Spurs, capping off an incredible run as an 8th seed. Pat Riley’s old hair.

However, even the greatest Knicks moments tend to to have a coda of disappointment; of winning the battle, but ultimately never the war; of counting the decades since the last time we laid claim to the Larry O’Brien trophy and remembering we never did because we last took the title before O’Brien was ever a commissioner. To be a Knicks fan is to be a glutton for punishment; to believe that, despite even your more historic moments being defined by failure, this season might be the one where we pull it altogether, even when you know it almost certainly won’t. It’s a bittersweet existence that I’d largely resigned myself to; an unwavering love for an organization that simply refuses to love me back no matter how hard it tries to get itself together.

The saga of Derrick Rose, however, might be just what it takes to get me to walk away from the franchise.

For those who have lost sight of this case, the highlights are as follows:

In 2015, a Jane Doe filed a civil suit against Rose and two of his friends, alleging that she was gang raped while severely intoxicated and unable to consent in 2013. The case largely avoided heavy media coverage post filing, but with the deposition resuming and both sides start preparing for trial, every new detail becomes more stomach turning than the last:

1.  Since the filing of the motion, there seems to have been consistent effort from Rose’s PR team to smear the accuser’s reputation in the public eye. A quick search of TMZ will generate headlines such as “’Rape’ Lawsuit Is … JUST A MONEY GRAB”, “ACCUSER CONSENTED TO GROUP SEX … Mad Over Sex Toy”, “You’re No Prude YOU HOOKED UP WITH NICK YOUNG”,”RAPE ACCUSER FILED POLICE REPORT … 2 Years After Incident” – all standard-issue tried and true methods of attempting to discredit claims of sexual abuse.

2. These claims have moved over from PR “leaks” to actual legal strategy by Rose’s representation. An excerpt from a filed memorandum includes the following: “Plaintiff is publicly portraying herself as sexual. The production includes photos from Plaintiff’s Instagram account that are sexual in nature. In these images, Plaintiff is dressed in provocative attire, is in sexually suggestive poses, and is in photographs indicating that she engages in sexually charged encounters with more than one man at a time.” While thankfully this argument was not appreciated by the presiding judge, the planned defense of Rose’s team seems to be continuously pepper with allegations founded in traditional slut-shaming, continuously accusing her of being sexually adventurous and therefore more amenable to group sex.

3. There has been increasingly troubling discussion around the concept of affirmative consent, which, regardless of Rose’s lawyers’ implications, is required in each an every sexual interaction, no matter how sexually adventurous participants may or may not be. During his deposition, Rose himself states “we leaving to go over to someone’s house at 1:00, there’s nothing to talk about” — suggesting quite incorrectly that consent is implied and cannot be withdrawn at any point by parties involved. This misconception by Rose is further accentuated by the admission by Rose’s own team that he does not understand what consent means.

4. Last, but certainly not least, the judge has ruled that the alleged victim must remove the current cloak of anonymity and use her full name should the case make it to trial — a blow to the long understood precedent of rape cases, especially high-profile ones. To be clear, the plaintiff is not anonymous to Rose or his legal team. They know full well who she is and have accessed her social media, her friends, and of course their personal interactions via phone call and text messages. His team only wants her name out there for her life to be ripped apart and excoriated by the media and public. As it stands, even under the Jane Doe pseudonym, it has been pushed that the victim is an NBA groupie, a money grubber, and a sexually loose woman. We shouldn’t expect any of the treatment to alleviate once her name is disseminated to the general public.

In the recent offseason, the Knicks acquired Rose. He’s expected to be the starting point guard for the season, knees notwithstanding. And beyond being unable to fathom how a starting five containing Melo, Porzingis, and Rose can equitably distribute the ball, I don’t think I can stand by my home team while this abominable saga plays out in the backdrop.

I don’t expect a sports franchise in any league to bench a player over charges that haven’t resulted in criminal charges or civil penalties yet. Just looking at the NBA, this is a league in which Kobe’s admission that he probably did rape that girl is a fact that’s glossed over in any retelling of his legacy, regardless of whether you love or hate him. But in a year littered with increased attention to rape and sexual assault cases and how historically poorly they are treated — from Brock Turner, to Nate Parker, to the Vanderbilt football Team, to the ongoing saga at the University of Richmond — I can’t in good conscience show love for my team knowing that one of the current faces of the franchise was more than likely an active participant in one of the worst violations a person can commit against another human being.

Rape and sexual assault victims deserve our support far more than their abusers do, no matter how talented they are in their chosen vocation, and ultimately trumps any fealty I may have; I can only hope that there comes a day that this becomes the social consensus as opposed to a principle held by the minority. As a survivor of sexual assault myself, someone who has consistently advocated for domestic violence and sexual assault victims in multiple capacities, and a woman, there are some bifurcations of the “art” versus the “person” that I personally can’t stomach, even if it comes at the expense of one of the longest relationships that I hold dear, or results in me rooting for the redemption of Brandon Jennings. Until then, I’ll keep my Knicks gear tucked away for the foreseeable future.

Shamira Ibrahim

Shamira is a twentysomething New Yorker who likes all things Dipset. You can join her in waxing poetically about chicken, Cam'ron, and gentrification (gotta have some balance) under the influence of varying amounts of brown liquor at her semi-monthly blog, shamspam.tumblr.com

  • Sadly, this isn’t as much about D Rose but this standard practices in s exual assault cases. It is centuries old and has to stop. Is Rose guilty? Probably. But it is endemic in our culture that we treat young women as objects and this is what happens. We all need to do better here.

    • TheCollinB

      You know I had to think about this in regards to my marriage. I used to joke when I was younger that you could look at my wife and tell the era I came up in. The woman that loves me enough to take my last name and have my black babies and in essence I had reduced her to video vixen status. Being older if I woulda heard the young me say that I woulda told my dumb a s s to shut up and be glad she married me.

      Men just don’t connect the dots and at times it can be dangerous to the women we love.

      • We get better. Well, a lot of us do anyway.

      • Blueberry01

        At least you had a reality check that preserved your marriage…

  • I didn’t realize there were both a civil and criminal complaint filed.

    • Brooklyn_Bruin

      The criminal complaint is like a few days old. The civil suit is older

    • CheGueverraWitBlingOn

      There is no criminal complaint. The LAPD has said there is a criminal investigation ongoing. Whether a prosecutor turns this into a complaint is another question and based on currently known evidence, I’d doubt any prosecutor (unfortunately) would bring this before a jury. Perhaps authorities are hoping for other information to come out in the civil trial.

  • Kat

    I’m tired of this as well. Tired of waiting for society to be forced to change. Wondering why we keep forgetting that the other person is human to.

  • Other_guy13

    FLOTUS just said “we need an adult in the White House”…i’m happy again

  • Brandon Allen

    I too am a Knicks fan, so in staying true to form this whole Derrick Rose thing had to be an utter embarrassment. I’ve been team Brandon Jennings since he chucked the deuces to Arizona so we should be good.

    It’s been documented that D Rose is not that smart of an individual so as evidenced by his “We men” comment I’m not surprised.

    • Negro Libre

      D-Rose been an idiot…

      • Duff Soviet Union

        I’m actually kind of surprised he can even tie his shoelaces together.

  • Val

    There’s an interesting parallel between how alleged rape victims are vetted after the fact and how Black folks who are victims of police violence are vetted after the fact. If you are a Black person or a women who has been victimized then society says you have to prove your victim worthiness.

    • Question

      Never thought about it like this before but you are so right.

    • It’s because speaking up is an act of power, which is something black people and women aren’t supposed to have in American society. So if we do speak up, it’s automatically held as suspect.

      https://hhharris.wordpress.com/2016/09/28/where-the-reaper-rests/
      Join the Facebook community– https://www.facebook.com/forthedeadanddying

    • miss t-lee

      This good gospel right here.

    • Brooklyn_Bruin

      The last post up on vsb was about black bogeymen, and the fact that the virtue of white women were not questioned.

      Am I the only one who sees the irony?

      Somehow the word “galloped” really makes this issue different?

      • Brass Tacks
        • Brooklyn_Bruin

          It’s Wednesday!

        • RewindingtonMaximus

          Scooooooore

          I miss this movie

      • There are witnesses and such in this case.

        • Brooklyn_Bruin

          One can wriggle out of this by focusing on facts… But then how could I cook?

          • I should look more in to case. There is a line between stupid drunk and passed out.

            • TheCollinB

              I think she was stupid drunk which can make people sleepy. She did leave her door unlocked I believe so they could enter. Or her roommate let them in when she was already asleep.

              • There’s a huge line there.if everyone was all drunk and she kinda might have invited them it’s pretty gray. They snuck in while she was sleep, they are guilty.

                • Val

                  Does it matter if they were invited?

                  • Yes. Say an intoxicated woman invites you up with ambiguous language and you 2 do the do. In the morning she decidedoesn’t that she was too drunk to make good decisions. That doesn’t make you guilty.

                    • -h.h.h.-

                      i thought that in 2016, anything outside of an enthusiastic yes…is a no.

                    • Step out of that water. I see sharks coming.

                    • -h.h.h.-

                      not even being sarcastic or what not, that’s what i hear whenever this comes up on social media (usually twitter).

                    • Negro Libre

                      Affirmative Consent isn’t the law of the land…yet.

                      But eventually, it seems that’s where things are going, which imo…well, the consequences will speak for themselves in time.

                    • Val

                      Well, considering that an intoxicated person may be too drunk or high to give consent then isn’t on the invited person to decline both invitations?

                    • But if they’re both drunk, then what?

                    • -h.h.h.-

                      i guess if he initiated contact while drunk, then he’s guilty of r.ape?

                      kinda like if you drive drunk, you might not remember but you’re still charged with DUI?

                      i dont know, i’ve never heard the answer to this question either.

                    • Definitely a conundrum when we paint with broad strokes. The devil is in the details I guess.

                    • Negro Libre

                      Umm, you’re not going to.

                      You’re looking at this from a legal perspective, incorporating the perspectives of the victim and the accused; generally speaking, these conversations rotate around using progressive measures to reshape or solve social problems (i.e. rape culture), while paying little attn. into how laws are likely to be practiced or enforced.

                    • NonyaB

                      See my reply to cogito.

                    • Brass Tacks

                      Hmm… Many cases seems to involve both parties at varying levels of intoxication.

                      If both parties have reached the same state of inebriation…I would presume that neither is in the right frame of mind to have sound judgement.

                      Idk mayne….Sht can go left real quick.

                    • Yeah but what percent of encounters are sound decisions? It ain’t 100.

                    • Brass Tacks

                      Thus opening up another set of questions that need answers?

                    • -h.h.h.-

                      if you have to ask, then you probably shouldn’t do it, no?

                    • Kas

                      I think the comment section has decided that you have to ask.

                    • Brass Tacks

                      I was content to watch this entire situation unfold from the boat. But nooo….

                      “Come on in.” They said

                      “The waters great” They said

                    • Things are never as cut and dry as we would like.

                    • Freebird

                      The dude is responsible.

                    • Brass Tacks

                      Two drunken drivers get into a head on collision, and in the process destroys private property.

                      What are the factors that determine who is actually responsible for damages?

                      Does the larger vehicle carry that situation because its a SUV whereas the other car was only two door sedan?

                    • Freebird

                      If one driver is a man and the other a woman the man is responsible.

                      I’m joking Brass and I get the conversation’s around nuance but it doesn’t work that way. Teaching that the dude is always responsible – and that concent is a yes or no question MINUS alcohol – is the best way to keep boys on the right side of things and women from not being raped

                    • Brass Tacks

                      Got it!

                    • LadyJay?

                      If YOU have your faculties working and hers are not, nucca, that’s rape.

                    • Brass Tacks

                      Im saying: If both parties faculties are down, (because alcohol) who truly (if anyone), is at fault?

                      If neither party is able to even somewhat accurately recall the events of the prior night. Who deems that the male is the antagonist? Is it because ofthe fact that he has a peen, It automatically dictates that he is in fact guilty until proven innocent?

                    • Negro Libre

                      Legally, once you’re both intoxicated, regardless of faculties you’re both rapists. It’s just a matter of who reports it first.

                    • LadyJay?

                      Cool.

                    • Epsilonicus

                      “It’s just a matter of who reports it first.”

                      Thats scary

                    • Tambra

                      Just don’t do it Cog.

                    • -h.h.h.-

                      then the male is responsible.

                    • Well that isn’t s.exist at all.

                    • -h.h.h.-

                      i don’t know why, but it’s one of those things where i’m not supposed to question.

                      so it’s the man’s fault responsibility, in 2016 to be aware of his surroundings and not get caught in any situation like that here.

                    • Tambra

                      Wow! Accepting sexual responsibility is such a hard thing eh?

                    • -h.h.h.-

                      uhm…yesno?

                    • Kas

                      I didn’t realize this was going on down here. I started my own fire upthread.

                    • -h.h.h.-

                      so i’ve seen. i think i’ve said too much.

                    • Kas

                      Yes, yes you have.

                    • LMNOP

                      I am always so confused by this entire conversation. How is the difference between drunk s ex and rape really this confusing? Like a sizeable chunk of the population I have both been raped and had a decent amount of drunken s ex, and it’s not even apples and oranges, it’s like apples and explosives, they are just clearly and obviously very different.

                    • -h.h.h.-

                      i think in the same episode, one person can think the episode was drunken ***, and the other think it was r***.

                      and in 2016, i think there are those males who dont want to be thought of as r***sts and who will err on the side of caution. to the point of not trusting the opposite s**, because you never know.

                      i’m slowly approaching that line of logic.

                    • LMNOP

                      I guess what I’m saying is that while those kinds of situations exist, it seems like a lot of men talk about them ad nausea when the topic of rape come up, like the main concern is “could anyone accidentally become a rapist?”

                      I think maybe men who wouldn’t rape don’t quite understand how often rape is literally physically forcing s ex, and holding a person down while you and/or someone else rapes them. It’s not a confusing situation you could maybe find yourself in.

                    • -h.h.h.-

                      i think this is because the men who wouldn’t r**e (apparently all of us have the potential to r**e, so this goes against your point; but that’s a tangent we can discuss next year) want to make sure the things that they do, wouldn’t be considered r**e, because who wants to be known as a r***st?

                      i mean if you’re not continuously asking, then…anything is fair game, it seems to me. this would make s** a very ‘trusting’ act.

                    • Negro Libre

                      Actually, they are entirely the same.

                      This was the point I said earlier, about how DV is DV, whether you call the police or not. R@pe is R@pe whether you report it or not. As it is defined, so shall it be.

                      This is why I keep on bringing the role advocates are playing in this conversation, and the irony that they are somehow shocked that other people who don’t pay attn to this on the regular are confused. Everytime they advocate for a new way of interpreting consent, with the desire to make it easier for women to report as well as to catch predators, they also inevitably redefine chex, despite their never-ending assertions that they aren’t. Once again, law is absolute…which is what makes it enforceable in theory.

                      Affirmative Consent redefines chex from a singular act at a time, to a sequential series of acts at a time, that one is legally obligated to seek “clear” permission at every segment. Now you might not do it, the two parties might have even wanted it to go that way; but if you get accused, and you didn’t, you can be judged as a chexual offender, eventually. This is why many of the people who advocated for A.C. openly admitted that it is designed to shift the burden of proof to the accused, in other words to subvert the standard of innocent until proven guilty.

                      This is why I’m very much against this entire idea of somehow seeking solutions to the problems of r@pe and chexual assault, without also purposely acknowledging and factoring in the right of the accused. Without so all solutions are merely just incoherent and possibly dangerous for the ripple effects they can have on everyone, including the law itself.

                    • Freebird

                      Affirmative Consent redefines chex from a singular act at a time, to a sequential series of acts at a time, that one is legally obligated

                      More men should know this and act accordingly.

                    • Negro Libre

                      Yeah, I mean, people legit are downplaying what this actually means, and are relying on goodwill not understanding that according to the law, a good amount of men and women are r@ping each other on a regular basis, and don’t even know it.

                    • CheGueverraWitBlingOn

                      Have you ever had a drunken experience that you have regretted after the fact?

                    • NonyaB

                      Two drunk people having s*x isn’t automatically rape. But if one accuses the other of r*pe, then the accused cannot use consent as a defense in court (because too drunk ? informed consent). If two drunk people have s*x and accuse each other of r*pe, then the authorities will investigate to determine culpability. Whoever initiated it is likely to be charged.

                    • Freebird

                      Yes it does bro. That’s rape from what I’ve been told.

                    • But by that logic, where is the line of consent? First beer? Third margarita? If alcohol didn’t cause us to make odd decisions, none of us would drink it.

                    • Freebird

                      I’m very careful around women and alcohol for these very reasons….you can end up in court from this and it could be considered rape. All it takes is a beer.

                    • That takes a lot away from women’s autonomy, don’t you think?

                    • Negro Libre

                      The ends justify the means.

                    • What!?

                    • Negro Libre

                      If it helps put more r@pists and potential chexual predators away, it’s worth removing the autonomy of the woman is such a scenario.

                    • Or we could just teach people not to rape each other. That’s a thing.

                    • Negro Libre

                      I agree with this, but if simply teaching people was the problem, there would be no need for laws in the first place.

                    • That would be true unless we’ve been teaching the wrong things for 100s of years. Which we have.

                    • LMNOP

                      Laws should be a piece of the puzzle with this and most public health issues, but they can’t address the issue alone, you need to work on prevention and on changing hearts and minds and social norms. There are A LOT of public health issues that require a multifaceted approach like s exual violence does, including but not limited to laws, smoking, gun violence, drinking, driving safety. Education has its place here.

                    • Negro Libre

                      Hmmm, ok.

                      Question though, do you think Affirmative Consent, should be the law of the land, for example?

                    • Freebird

                      From things I’ve seen you post I know you mean well. But that’s not how this works. The man is always responsible if staying on the right side of things… like the law is the end goal.

                    • Why is the man always responsible?

                    • Freebird

                      Noyab posted this below: Two drunk people having s*x isn’t automatically rape. But if one accuses the other of r*pe, then the accused cannot use consent as a defense in court.

                      This is what I’ve heard, and it leaves a lot for interpretation, too much to gamble with, which could get you in trouble.

                    • Negro Libre

                      It makes no sense, and to be honest, it’s a lie. A crime cannot by definition be a crime, if it is only thus, because it is reported. It is either always a crime or it is not. Once again, perhaps it requires repeating: laws are meant to be absolute.

                      The simple fact of the matter is that the advocates of these things intentionally or unintentionally seek to improve the chances of catching r@pists by standardizing chex – that is the solution they’ve come up with. But hey, as long as they don’t explicitly say it, it isn’t true despite what reality and common sense have to say.

                    • Freebird

                      The ambiguity around this does not help victims.

                    • Negro Libre

                      You think it’s ambiguous though?

                    • Freebird

                      For me and many men no. There’s an absolute answer to all this for me. But when ever this conversation happens folks want to tell me that an absolute solution is not needed.. My reading of the law and the social commentary says don’t listen to them.

                    • Negro Libre

                      Let me do this and point out the rationale behind why women ideologically would defend this approach.

                      One of the core arguments that comes from theories based on r@pe culture, is that r@pe isn’t so much a crime, as it is a way or a method of the patriarchy defending itself: it’s a weapon, an act of reinforcing power and maintaining the status quo. So rather than just viewing it as a crime, such as murder, physical violence, robbery etc, r@pe is viewed as a tactic: a necessary product of a system. In other words r@pe doesn’t exist independently of the patriarchy – if patriarchy is the system, then r@pe and other derivatives are the police and soldiers that protect it.

                      If you accept all the above arguments, if you’re being honest and consistent (intellectual honesty), you also have to accept that the only way to find a solution to r@pe is to completely get rid of the patriarchy. And since we currently live in a patriarchy and perhaps always have, that means the way we view things, the language we use, even the way we view chex, itself is primarily an inheritance from the status quo, and to get rid of it, we have to reteach people what such things are, which logically requires redefining what things like chex actually is. After all, isn’t everything that we do, taught after all?

                      The solutions that you often hear, are mostly based and heavily immersed into a particular ideology, in this case, the postmodern approach to feminism that is rather popular nowadays. This is why, I keep saying the ends justify the means, because if all of us have to be initially defined as r@pists, but in the end these redefining of terms, vagueness, confusion, even fear and hesitation, help to weaken or completely get rid of the patriarchy and it’s weapons of r@pe, chexual assault, domestic violence etc it will be worth it. Most won’t say this, but how many people do you hear talk about this from an ideological perspective in conversation, you usually talk about these things on political and narrative grounds, which makes it hard to miss the ideas behind such things.

                      Taking all that into consideration, there’s nothing ambiguous, if you’re looking at it from an ideological lens, most people don’t, and thus it’s easy to come up with solutions, while dismissing a wholistic view of the problem as well as the solution…which is how bad laws and bad policies come into existence in the first place.

                    • Asiyah

                      Yes it does. She wasn’t in a position to consent in the first place. She was drunk.

                    • Expirement: Say there’s a person that makes you a little nervous but you really want to jump those bones. You have a few drinks, get your courage up and things go well. You get it on. We’re you r.aped?

                    • Asiyah

                      So you need to not be in the right frame of mind in order to do something like that?

                    • Who said anything about being in a bad state of mind?

                    • cyanic

                      No apostrophe for that were.

                    • The man put a program on my computer. I’m on phone access. There shall be typos.

                    • Blueberry01

                      Especially if you know them and had been chexing for two years prior.

                      My only concern is if they’d ever had a threesome before that night.

                    • LadyJay?

                      Why would you even take an invitation with an INTOXICATED person? She is not in her right faculties. Stop the madness, already.

                    • But she hot #doe.

                    • LadyJay?

                      Quit playing. I don’t care her level of hotness or ugliness.

                    • So you’re saying if drunk Mariah Carey is throwing it at Earl the janitor, he should politely try again tomorrow?

                    • Asiyah

                      Yes.

                    • -h.h.h.-

                      yes.

                      anything outside of enthusiastic sober consent = no
                      (as of 2016)

                    • LadyJay?

                      EXACTLY.

                    • Mochagirl73

                      Your comments are sexist and promote rape culture. Contrary to your assumptions men don’t rape women based on their appearance. Besides, I doubt you would make such flippant comments around the fatal shootings of unarmed Black men who are shot by the police. Sexual assault victims deserve the same empathy and respect.

                    • No no no. Promoting the idea that women can’t be responsible for their lady parts after drinking promotes patriarchy, which promotes rape culture.

                    • Asiyah

                      THANK YOU!

                    • Blueberry01

                      She was his mistress and they apparently had been chexing for two years prior, so it wasn’t out of the ordinary for her to make this request – even in her drunken state.

                      Now, I’m not sure if they had a threesome before that night.

                    • LadyJay?

                      Did she herself state that this was not out of the ordinary to make such a request or are you just assuming.

                      I do not care if they were married. She did not consent is the point of it all. Prior history is null and void.

                    • Blueberry01

                      None of the information that anyone is sharing can be quoted, since no one has testified or been deposed. So, as of right now, legally we only have allegations and responses (from all parties).

                      Nevertheless, I was going off of what I read DR mention about their relationship and I inferred that if they had this extended, secretive, chexual relationship then it wouldn’t be a stretch for her to call him up late at night for chex – and possibly drinking at the same time. Prior history is NOT null and void because it is a determining factor when assessing the point that consent was not achieved (i.e. Brock Turner raping an unconscious stranger from a party vs DR going to see his mistress for routine chex ). It doesn’t mean that rape could not occur in either case, it’s just a factor that is used to determine at what point was consent was available to be communicated (i.e. was the alleged victim conscious) and achieved (i.e. did all parties agree).

                      Now, as far as him bringing his boys for an o r g y, I don’t know. I think that’s a separate issue of consent entirely.

                      And yes, I do agree that marital rape occurs (and is widely unreported).

                      Here’s a link: https://www.google.com/amp/s/medium.com/amp/p/2182c16b55e2?client=ms-android-verizon

                    • LadyJay?

                      Gotcha.

                    • cyanic

                      Her regretting the encounter doesn’t make it assault after the fact.

                    • NonyaB

                      “Ambiguous language” is your cue: Clarify that it’s explicitly a go or go home. Otherwise, you’re accepting that you don’t have full consent but betting on the fact that she won’t report.

                    • We are not computers. Human language is very dynamic. So are our social interactions. We often know what’s going on without spelling it out. I believe that both parties have the right to pull the plug at any time and it is a stretch to ask people to expressly ask for the deed without killing the mood.

                    • NonyaB

                      Expressly asking takes a few seconds and won’t kill the mood if it was a go to begin with.

                    • I’m not using drunkeness as a crutch. I’m just saying that express consent is usually unnecessary. We are capable of figuring out if someone doesn’t want to do the nasty.

                      SN: I hate that disqus makes me use euphemisms on such a serious topic.

                    • finisterre

                      “We are capable of figuring out if someone doesn’t want to do the nasty.”

                      Yes. Yes you are. And that’s exactly why this whole ‘it’s such a grey area’ thing is so unconvincing to many women.

                    • That I understand.

                    • NonyaB

                      I acknowledge that expressly verbal consent is usually unnecessary because desire is usually obvious and the multiple ways of communicating it (vebally, physically, etc) have probably been used. I was responding to possibility of any ambiguity per your initial question.

                    • I agree. If you have to ask explicitly, then you should know it’s a no by that point.

                    • LMNOP

                      I think you can probably ask without killing the mood, but I don’t think it’s a realistic expectation that everyone will do that every time, and there are a lot of ways you can gauge consent.

                    • Duff Soviet Union

                      I keep hearing people say that asking for consent ruins the mood. You’re doing it wrong.

            • Brooklyn_Bruin

              There isn’t, nor should there be.

            • O

              Though you are likely playing devils advocate are we seriously telling ourselves that every sexual encounter you’ve had has been when sober and times when you were not you were raped? 50% of sexual encounters conceived pregnancies are likely in an intoxicated state. Don’t lie to yourself.

              • I find it hard to believe that nobody thinks that a woman can’t make a rational decision about her body when she can legally drive a car. It’s incredibly belittling and it implies that men don’t know the difference.

      • TheCollinB

        In some cases The Candyman is real…you text him 3 times after 12am and he appears apparently

      • Val

        Yep, that is an exception to the rule. Btw, every Black person should know about the film Birth of a Nation. That’s when the whole Black boogeyman meme really took off and it made the way for White folks and in particular White women blaming Black men for all sorts of things.

        • Tambra

          You mean the cinematic classic. That people are not willing to condemn to the garbage for the narrative it has proffered.

          • Val

            People don’t realize what a huge impact that film had on White people and this country. The President at the time, Woodrow Wilson, screened the film at the White House and called it a classic.

            • Tambra

              My gripe with it is that is it still held as a standard despite the huge elephant of a plot. At the time it was filmed and screened , Kanye shrug for want of a better experession, you know how it was then ,but now, it’s another story.

              • Val

                Yep, it’s very telling how this film isn’t universally seen as the racist garbage it is.

                • Cheech

                  I thought it was universally seen as the racist garbage it is. Except, you know, among white supremacists.

                  • Blueberry01

                    Right. I saw portions of it in my “Race in Media” class in undergrad.

          • Negro Libre

            The irony about it, was the Southern man who wrote the book the movie is based on, wrote it because he was outraged by “the lies” he saw in a play called “Uncle Tom’s Cabin.”

            • Tambra

              Not surprised. If these people are still spouting that slavery was not bad. Not surprised.

        • Negro Libre

          Actually, it seems the fear originates with the Haitian Revolution. The fear that black people would revolt, win, take white people’s land and then eliminate all white lives if they refused to leave was a major part of Southern consciousness throughout the 19th century.

          • Val

            I’m sure that has something to do with it but for the average White person back just after the turn of last century Birth of a Nation was hugely impactful.

            • Negro Libre

              I don’t disagree, I’m just saying that every revolt after the Haitian Revolution was looked as a reinforcement of the fear of it happening.

              • Tambra

                Yup. It reverberated throughout the Caribbean with a temporary tightening of the slave code even thought the British had started considering abolition of the trade.

          • Tambra

            Never mind Haiti was supportive of the US but such is life.

            • Val

              Everybody did Haiti wrong. France and the U.S. being at the top of the list. And still doing them wrong.

          • “Avengers of the New World” is my favorite text about the Haitian Revolution. Can you believe a Haitian revolutionary actually described him and his comrades with that phrase? Ultimate boss move.

        • Brooklyn_Bruin

          So if this victim turns out to be a 2520, like Kobe’s…

          • Val

            I don’t have all the answers. What do you think?

            • Brooklyn_Bruin

              Privacy for all, let the authorities figure it out.

              All crimes, all the time.

              And that’s a flawed solution given our system

          • TheCollinB

            It still shows Rose is kind of a moron who probably shouldn’t be around women.

            • We are all a little stupid around women.

              • LMNOP

                I mean, it’s okay to be stupid around women, but not okay to rape them. Pretty big difference lol

                • I wasn’t saying that.

                  • LMNOP

                    Good!

                • Kas

                  You would think there would be no need to say this, but yet it is somehow needed.

          • miss t-lee

            I don’t really care her race, period.

        • Cheech

          But we cant actually see the film, cause supporting rapists ….

          • Tambra

            i think she is referring to the 1915 original by DW Griffith

          • LMNOP

            I think she’s talking about the other one, which you don’t want to see cause supporting racists

          • Val

            Not that film, I’m talking about this film.

            https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Birth_of_a_Nation

            • Cheech

              I quickly figured that out, but was underground where my “oops” edit wouldnt post.

      • Duff Soviet Union

        Is Rose’s victim white?

        • Brooklyn_Bruin

          Maybe, maybe not. Her identity is private for now.

          If she is, are we to scrutinize her account the same way like Susan Smith? Does the tall tale analysis kick in?

          It’s a tough question to answer because there are two important competing values

    • Objection

      I can’t agree with this comment. Any police officer or man accused of a crime has a right to question the credibility of the person making the allegations. A woman doesn’t get to accuse a man of rape without her credibility being questioned. A black person doesn’t get to accuse a police officer of police brutality without the black person’s credibility being questioned. A police officer doesn’t get to bring charges without the officer’s credibility being questioned.

      A person’s reputation of being a truthful person has always been a part of criminal and civil trials. The million-dollar question is whether juries come into the courthouse with a bias opinion that women and black people are all liars; and all police offices are truthful people?

      Society should vet everyone equally.

      • Asiyah

        “A person’s reputation of being a truthful person has always been a part of criminal and civil trials.”

        But that isn’t what most people question. When a woman is a r*pe victim, what comes to question IMMEDIATELY is her s*xual history. When a Black person is murdered by police, what comes to question IMMEDIATELY is his/her criminal history. The only way that person’s “honesty” is put into question is when the default doesn’t yield any murky results.

        • Objection

          My comment was in response to her statement. She ended with this, “If you are a Black person or a women who has been victimized then society says you have to prove your victim worthiness.”

          Maybe she is talking about social media when she says society. I’m talking about the jury when I say society. People on social media say and ask all types of crazy questions. In a jury trial, the judge is going to give the jury instructions concerning a woman, black person, police officers reputation for truthfulness.

          A woman’s sexual history is protected under the rape shield laws. A person’s criminal record can and does come into evidence sometimes.

      • Blueberry01

        But, unfortunately society doesn’t…

      • Duff Soviet Union

        “A woman doesn’t get to accuse a man of rape without her credibility being questioned.”

        She gets to accuse a man of doing anything else without her credibility being questioned. Rape is the only crime where the victim is on trial as much as the accused.

        • Objection

          She gets to accuse a man of doing anything else without her credibility being questioned.

          Please explain. I’m not following you.

          Rape is the only crime where the victim is on trial as much as the accused.

          Are you talking about a real trial or social media? If your talking about a real trail, a woman is not excluded from cross examination.

    • LMNOP

      Exactly, and it’s insane. You don’t have to earn human rights. You literally don’t have to do a thing but exist to have the God-given right to not be killed and to not be assaulted.

      • Val

        Exactly, L. Our humanity should never be in question and it always is.

  • I’m confused as to what legal precedent the judge used to rule that the survivor has to reveal her name. That is outrageous and it’s the first time I’ve heard in a case of sexual assault that the survivor has to go public.

    https://hhharris.wordpress.com/2016/09/28/where-the-reaper-rests/
    Join the Facebook community– https://www.facebook.com/forthedeadanddying

    • NonyaB

      I just said as much. Can’t think of any other reason than subtle intimidation into dropping the case, especially given how past victims have been torn down.

  • TheCollinB

    Sham you so goddamb woke B…your last few articles been 5 mic classics, but the really good ones not like when they were just givin the mica away to bun b and lil Kim.

    • The last albums the Source gave 5 mics that I agreed with were “The Blueprint” and “The Fix.”

      • TheCollinB

        Check again

        • Lol, is my memory failing me with those albums?

          • TheCollinB

            Yeah. They gave Bun B’s first solo five and Lil Kim’s “N-ked Truth”. Both mediocre at best.

            • TheOtherJerome

              I wouldn’t say they were mediocre. Just not 5 mic worthy

            • miss t-lee

              Meh. I own Trill. It’s solid.
              Kimmy on the other hand? Nah.

            • RewindingtonMaximus

              Nah…Trill was official, real official.

            • cyanic

              Hard Core is overrated. And features her very little.

              • TheCollinB

                Let’s not get ahead of ourselves now.

                • cyanic

                  Laughs.

      • miss t-lee

        The Fix definitely deserved it.

      • JBusy

        The value of 5 mics decrease during Jay-Z and Nas beef. The Blueprint was absolutely 5 mic worthy, but Stillmatic, while solid, did not. Ether was legendary, but in the words of Jay, it was “nah”.

        • I love Stillmatic but it’s one of the Nas albums I skip over. If anything, God’s Son was closer to 5 mics.

    • God Shammgod

      LOL. I’ll take it.

    • Asiyah

      It’s the fasting. Got her more insightful ;)

      • TheCollinB

        More in tune with the infinite

  • HouseOfBonnets
    • miss t-lee

      *White People Meet Pusha T

      I had to fix that real quick.

      • RewindingtonMaximus

        Always have to clarify for White folks

        • miss t-lee

          I’m just saying…who exactly would she be introducing him to?

    • Hot d*am. It’s a new day.

    • TheCollinB

      I can’t tell you what it means to me having been close to these n*ggas for the time that I was to see them being introduced to the country.

      • RewindingtonMaximus

        They’ve come a long way

    • cyanic

      Doesn’t he have a twin? BTW what is taking them so long to provide an Atlanta episode recap?

      • miss t-lee

        “Doesn’t he have a twin?”

        No.

        • cyanic

          He resembles his brother pretty strongly.

      • He has two brothers. The one you know is now a Christian rapper.

        • cyanic

          Wondered why he disappeared from the mainstream.

          • because his christian rap albums are awful.

            • cyanic

              Are Christian rap recordings ever any good?

              • Oluseyi

                Lecrae’s Anomaly was one of the best rap albums of 2014, so there’s that…

              • Kas

                No

              • Blueberry01

                I know some: Lecrae, Trip Lee, Andy Mineo, KB, Tedashii, and Derek Minor are dope.

  • Side note: I loved Starbury in New York.

    • Val

      What ever happened to his shoes?

      • They have all disintegrated by now.

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