How To Get Out And Stay Out Of The “Friend’s Zone”

The “friend’s zone” — that infamous coitus-less abyss where women take pleasure in turning unsuspecting men into eunuchs — has received quite a bit of play on VerySmartBrothas.com. First there was “damn you, shakira (six signs you’ve fallen into the “friend zone”)”, an entry where I introduced the topic by sharing my own sad little friend’s zone anecdote.

Next was “close-bus syndrome: six signs that a woman has been friend-zoned” , where I explained that women can be placed in the friend’s zone too.

I even placed “keeping friend-zoned guys around” first on a list of the cruelest things that women do, adding a humorous (but not really all that far-fetched) example to prove my point.

not only are most women aware of the hapless friends they have who are patiently hoping for a never occurring opening, they have no problem with taking advantage of him once he’s in place…and giving him just enough of a tease of a potential opening to keep him there.

there are myriad ways that they do this, but my favorite is the wistfully nonchalant “i wish there were more guys were like you. why can’t i find a good man?” they’ll utter to the emasculated cat driving them to ikea so she can replace the bed her maintenance man just helped her break the night before

(And yes, I still maintain that A) Most women are very aware when guys they’re just not that into are very into them and B) It’s some foul sh*t to keep him around by continually and intentionally being just affectionate enough that he thinks that he might get a chance some day. Assholes)

Yet, despite all of this attention, I’ve never actually offered any words of advice for guys who might be stuck there or just wish to avoid the abyss all together. No lists, no tidbits, no rules and regulations. Nothing.

Well, at least not until today.

1. Don’t allow yourself to get into the friend’s zone

I know that putting “don’t allow yourself to get in the friend’s zone” on a list explaining “How To Get Out And Stay Out Of The “Friend’s Zone” seems about as lazy and uninspired as giving someone at a rehab clinic a booklet full of Mr. Yuck stickers, but this is really the first thing that anyone who never wants to go there again needs to know.

Now, do you have control over whether a woman is attracted to you? No. (Well, to be honest, you actually do have control over that. But, for the sake of this explanation, we’ll just go with “no” for now) But, you do have control over whether you let her know that you’re definitely sexually attracted to her, something that guys who end up in the friend’s zone usually fail to do.

They make the mistake of trying to “friend” their way into the panties, not realizing that this is the quickest way to have her look at you as if you left your balls at home hanging on a refrigerator door magnet. They fail to make it immediately known (and by “immediately” I mean “during the first conversation“) that they have absolutely no interest in being her f*cking “friend.”

Will this affect your chances? Maybe. Maybe not. But, at least now you’ve set your standard and let your intentions known; forcing her to at least acknowledge that you’re a sexual being instead of waiting for her to set the panties parameters.

2. Don’t crush

On the list of “terrible, terrible, terrible ideas that we somehow still practice,” developing and cultivating long-term crushes is right up there with “the qwerty keyboard,” “the electoral college,” and “developing friendships with either of the Bryants.” What exactly makes the crush so bad? Well, when a person develops a long-term crush on a person, they usually end up idealizing that person so much that A) they become too enthralled with them to actually approach them and, in the rare case that they actually do approach, B) they’ve created a fantasy standard that the crushee can’t possibly reach.

Men who continually end up in the friend’s zone usually do this, building women up as these ultra-idealized and transubstantiating deities when they eat, sleep, and shit just like every one else. Take the p*ssy off the pedestal, and put where it belongs: on the dining room table.

3. Do something

Join a gym. Volunteer. Go to bartending school. Rob a bank. F*ck Erica Lynne. Whatever you do, make sure that you’re doing something other than following your “friend” around like a lost puppy, waiting for her to be kind enough to grant you an opening.

Why? Well, if she already knows that you’re interested in her, treating her as if she’s persona non grata has a funny way of making women think “Hmm. David doesn’t seem to give two shits about me anymore. I wonder why?” And, this thought has a tendency to lead to, um, other thoughts — a perfect seque to…

4. Remember that the friend’s zone/unrequited feelings thing doesn’t have to be permanent.

Let’s put it this way: While (many) women act as if the friend’s zone determination is permanent and unwavering, there are just as many men who’ve had numerous tasty-ass breakfasts made by women who previously saw them as “just a friend.” Basically, they make it seems like its some Guantanamo Bay type shit when all you really need to “escape” is an old credit card and a paper clip. (And by “an old credit card and a paper clip” I meant “a couch, some Netflix, and a bottle of Pineapple Malibu”)

Anyway, people of VSB.com, do you have any advice for a guy (or girl) looking to get out and stay out of the friend’s zone? Also, is there anyone here who’s either A) “escaped” the friend’s zone or B) allowed someone to “escape?” If so, how and why did this happen?

—The Champ

If you haven’t purchased the paperback or the $9.99 Kindle version of “Your Degrees Wont Keep You Warm at Night: The Very Smart Brothas Guide to Dating, Mating, andFighting Crime” yet, what the hell is stopping you? (No, seriously. Tell us and we’ll send Chuck Norris or Liz to fix it)

  • Tahir Jetter

    there is nothing worse than the fcking friend zone.

    • http://betroit.wordpress.com Betroit

      I second this response indubitably

      • http://thatswhatgemsaid.wordpress.com Gem Jones

        lol @ indubitably

        • http://www.pinchmycheekie.wordpress.com Cheekie

          Any guy who can say this on the first try? I want to have their babies.

          • http://thatswhatgemsaid.wordpress.com Gem Jones

            *nods head*

    • Medium Meech

      Sounds more entertaining than the regular friend zone.

      • http://www.twitter.com/makinghisstory Evan McAuthur Kane

        (i caught that too MM) and wouldn’t the “alone zone” be wosre!?

        • http://www.twitter.com/creolesoul Wit, Tits or STFU

          No, it would not be worse. It would actually be better, since there’s no specter of “torture by unrequited proximity” looming over you by the object of your obsession.

          • http://wewereninjas.wordpress.com/ Jay

            And the award for most epic screen name EVER goes to….

          • Simba.Africanna

            nice Twitter avi
            cracked me up :)

      • DQ

        How do you get into that zone, the f#cking friend zone… is that an upgrade you can purchase with frequent flyer mileage or something? It sounds interesting. I bet rappers shoot their videos in the f#cking friend zone.

        • http://thatswhatgemsaid.wordpress.com Gem Jones

          i think i interior-decorated a fcking friend zone once…

          • DQ

            I think I partially furnished a f#cking friend zone, had the big screen t.v. and a lazy boy recliner. Didn’t have cable though… it sucked.

      • LMNOP

        Yeah, f*cking friend zone is the place to be.
        Cause you’re friends, and your f*cking.
        And life is good

        • http://twitter.com/SmartFoxGirl SmartFoxGirl

          Exactly

    • http://verysmartbrothas.com The Champ

      i think chris bosh’s “tough” face is a little worse, actually.

    • http://www.awesomelyluvvie.com Luvvie

      “there is nothing worse than the fcking friend zone.”

      What bout Flava Flav’s morning breath? Betchu it’d cure your sinuses and clean out your pores.

      • IsOurChildrenLearning?

        I heard that his breath is actually very fresh. Well, I guess not his morning breath. :-/

        • http://pinchmycheekie.wordpress.com Cheekie

          His face, then.

      • http://verysmartbrothas.com The Champ

        What bout Flava Flav’s morning breath? Betchu it’d cure your sinuses and clean out your pores

        i heard he had very warm hands, too

  • http://www.thedatingtruth.com Miss Solomon

    I’ve never been in the friendzone, what’s it like?

    • DQ

      Like wanting to hump a girl, only to realize she’s your sister.

      • http://twitter.com/SmartFoxGirl SmartFoxGirl

        o_O

        • DQ

          I meant that in the most “Maury Povich Reveals a Family Secret” way possible.

    • Medium Meech

      Lots of used Kleenex, fishy produce, and awkward drunk drunk texts I would assume.

    • DG

      You ever seen one of those invisible fences that owners have installed around their property to keep their dog(s) from running away?? It’s pretty much like that….you can see this whole wonderful neighborhood full of trees and fresh grass and other dogs to play and frolic with…..it’s right there at your paws, but soon as you get to a certain point on your property….BZZZ…you get the isht shocked out of you. So it always remains just above your grasp.

      For a man, it’s basically P#ssy Purgatory…

      • EastAJ

        *T*R*U*T*H*!

      • coldsweat3

        deaddddddd @ “P#ssy Purgatory*

      • http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hmFAMRaNC9I BmoreCreative

        and let the church say AMEN!!!!

        *does the sunday morning collection organ roll*

    • http://twitter.com/kjnetic peter parker

      “I’ve never been in the friendzone, what’s it like?”

      it’s a lot of cold weather. i had to buy a couple space heaters for this house i own in the friend zone.

      low taxes though.

    • http://verysmartbrothas.com The Champ

      ‘I’ve never been in the friendzone, what’s it like?’

      oh stop it

      • http://www.hotbiscuitsandgravy.com Bengemin Grehe

        The last time I was in the “friend zone” was in college. Thing is, I never actually minded being there because the women were friends. Although, I did end up having sêx with one post college who ended up being my girl.

        Never again.

        That being said, the actual premise of the “friend zone” is an entirely bullshït construct. It doesn’t actually exist.

        • WayUPThere

          Interesting idea. People are gonna ask you to expound, so you might as well elaborate and let em know why.

          • http://www.hotbiscuitsandgravy.com Bengemin Grehe

            It’s not that the “friend zone” doesn’t exist, but it requires the quotes because the actual definition of the “friend zone” is in complete contradiction to the literal definition of friend.

            If you’re only friends with someone because you have some desire to extend that relationship beyond a platonic level, then you’re not actually friends at all.

            • Yoles

              If you’re only friends with someone because you have some desire to extend that relationship beyond a platonic level, then you’re not actually friends at all.

              that ?is so true… these are not real friendships, not at all…

              • http://www.twitter.com/makinghisstory Evan McAuthur Kane

                i don’t think it’s at all common to ONLY be “friends with someone because you have some desire to extend that relationship beyond a platonic level”…that’s a lot of work just to wait on some a$$. maybe it’s a geographic thing though…i guess it’s possible in some small towns and rural areas. but living in a metropolitan area, i have more than my share of friends where some physical attraction exists, either one-way or mutually, that i haven’t taken to the mat or put on the dining room table (nor am i “waiting” to)…and even if i do, we’ll still be friends–’cause we’re “friends.”

                there’s no sub-category for a genuine friendship based on whether or not you’ve bent them over…the misnomer here isn’t the “friend zone” it’s the word “Platonic.” the etymology of Platonic LOVE has been long bastardized from it’s original meaning…it was initially intended to distinguish intimate same-sex relationships from explicitly homosexual ones (that’ll make some people think twice before casually dropping terms). the idea that men and women could or should be friends absent of virility is a completely made-up concept…which some have unfortunately adapted to.

                • http://www.hotbiscuitsandgravy.com Bengemin Grehe

                  Interesting point about the word “platonic”. I did not know that.

                  However, judging from Champ’s post, and from all the comments I read, I think it’s fair to say that a lot of folks do become friends with greater intentions in mind.

                  • qozmic

                    It also occurred to me… I have ANOTHER female friend that is the obverse of that whole situation… meaning, we are platonic friends because of geography… we talk on the phone often because she’s madd interesting, but we have a common understanding that the minute we find ourselves in the same city, I’m crushin it….

                  • http://www.twitter.com/makinghisstory Evan McAuthur Kane

                    the short-version:

                    philosophers used to have these all-male cocktail parties were they would orate their work (pun unintended)…and even though this took place during a time when the sexes were more segregated, a lot of people thought it was–well–kinda gay. so in an attempt to defend his sexuality (largely unsuccessful), Plato addressed this “male intimacy” in one of his writings (a philosophical “no homo” of sorts)…thus it was later referred to as “Platonic LOVE.”

                • qozmic

                  Yo E.M.K. –

                  You have hit on some seriously profound *ish* right there. Imo, it’s the crux of the issue. The difference between “friends”, “FWB’s”, and everything in between.. because YES, there is ALOT of gradient in there.

                  I have female friends, I have smashed in the past, but we don’t work as a couple…so we remain really good friends, but who I will sporadically still smash… and who I have even told to their face that they will always be in the ‘smash-possible’ zone… And because the reasons why we are actually FRIENDS is so strong… they are okay with that… even though there is no chance of a long term thang… you with me? Okay… Now that being said, I still believe that is a finite and hard to maintain situation with any woman, kinda like keeping ice frozen… it requires huge amounts of energy, and constant application thereof… because that is just not its natural state… and the minute you remove the effort, it reverts to it’s form… ie, woman who you are either gonna commit to …or no longer be able to smash. The key is having your friendgame be extremely strong.

                  • http://www.twitter.com/makinghisstory Evan McAuthur Kane

                    exactly, you know where people stand in your life…i hang-out wit’ very few dudes, preferring my friends and social acquaintances to have a vagina. so there are a parade of attractive women in my life that i could pin to a wall at any point (let’s call it friends with an option to c*m)…much more often than not, however, i leave them be and live off of the adrenaline. most dudes thinks, “it’s a waste of perfectly good p*ssy”…most women think, “he lyin’ a$$ ain’t foolin’ nobody–i know he’s been fcukin’ these broads!” neither of them are right of course…i just think it’s a healthy, honest way to live–but i also realize the p!impin’ perception is real and heavy.

                    • http://www.hotbiscuitsandgravy.com Bengemin Grehe

                      Ahh, you see I think I misunderstood you before.

                      I’m actually the same as you. Sorta. I have a lot of homegirls. Strictly friends. I have no sêxual intentions with any of them. Tho, I will admit that only twice in four years, there were some extreme situations where I did want to smash. Thankfully it ain happen, and like I said the thought only crossed my mind twice.

                  • Justme (the guy)

                    Damn Qozmic, you sounding just like me. The reasons I am able to smash and still remain friends without ever doing the whole relationship thing is because we were ACTUALLY FRIENDS, like we have so much in common and can be so honest with each other that it never took the form of a relationship (which involves too much tip-toing around feelings and psychological games). They are ok with that because we value each other’s friendship so much and legitimately enjoy hanging out. Me coming on to them every now and then only feels like a compliment to them (if they not feeling it that day they’ll just say so and we’ll kick it regardless).

                    ” Now that being said, I still believe that is a finite and hard to maintain situation with any woman, kinda like keeping ice frozen… it requires huge amounts of energy, and constant application thereof… because that is just not its natural state… and the minute you remove the effort, it reverts to it’s form… ie, woman who you are either gonna commit to …or no longer be able to smash. The key is having your friendgame be extremely strong.”

                    And THAT is the most important thing for any dude reading this and thinking we’re just oober lucky. Cause one day I’ll be feeling like “man I found the one perfect chick that gets me and doesn’t ask for more than what’s logical/convenient for the two of us” then the next day I’m like “damn….I knew that was too good to be true” lol. Because of the fact that you added that last part, (which was the story of my life the last two years) I would bet money that you’ve been in that situation before and aren’t just tryna make yourself look like you know it all…(which a lot of virtual peeps out her make a habit of) I would even go as far as to say that it’s a lot easier to just find a jump-off that you can barely hold a convo with, but the understanding is clear, and won’t change with her mood. But that’s a whole nother topic lol

            • Sagey Bear

              I disagree, I have become a friend to women that I really only wanted to smangin’ to pieces. It may not be genuine initially but often times I realize what kind of bullets I dodge by being fz’d actually isn’t a bad thing because I walk around with natural high goggles which may be worse than beer goggles.

              • http://www.comeupchicago.com shogun

                Agree, you may get to actually know the girl once you get put in the friend-zone and thank god that you are there

              • qozmic

                Ultimate TRUDAT! You’d be surprised what you find out about a woman when she drops her guard and ain’t trying to be a ‘Swoon Unit’ …(yes, I did just drop a Digable Planets reference…because I’m old school like that)…..

                But my one disagreement would be the notion that any of this is permanent. I’m constantly amazed at how many times a woman I thought I’d NEVER date seriously turns into a “…well, maybe” because while in the FZ, I saw really GOOD qualities that made me see her differently.

                • Sagey Bear

                  I can dig it. Good look

            • http://www.twitter.com/creolesoul Wit, Tits or STFU

              It’s an apt description: the person being stuck in the fake friend zone is being a fake friend in the first place (since they have ulterior motives and intentions).

              They get what they deserve, I guess.

            • Alvin

              Agreed. The ‘friend zone’ isn’t where the man and woman are actual friends, who later develop an attraction and/or end up hooking up.

              The ‘friend zone’ is where the guy is head over heels for the woman, but she doesn’t see him in that way at all. She does like that he is always around and supportive, so she keeps him around. He thinks that by being friendly he is getting closer, when he really is digging the hole deeper. It’s a paradox.

              • http://qalil-com.blogspot.com Qalil Little

                Logic would dictate that once the object of one’s affection is decidedly no reciprocating said feelings, then maturity would kick in and one would let go.

                I’m not quite sure how this is an issue so it has a name!

            • LeezaP

              I absolutely disagree you can sincerely care about a person and gain feelings for them overtime and the friend zone will be real. There is a difference between this and seeking someone u like to pretend to be friends.

              • Yoles

                LeezaP

                that is what i am saying… doesn’t seem like a place where genuine friendships go to flourish!!!

              • http://www.hotbiscuitsandgravy.com Bengemin Grehe

                Sorta, except you need to realize that you can care for anyone. I’ve said this several times today, but I guess I’ll repeat here. Genuine “feelings” can only develop mutually. Anything else is jus one sided infatuation. Your falling for the idea oh how that friend would translate into a lover. But that idea doesn’t translate to a reality. Therefore, while those genuine “feelings” are well intentioned, they’re generally baseless, and now we’re back in the same conundrum.

            • http://qalil-com.blogspot.com Qalil Little

              I’ve been wondering about this construct too.

              So, if you’ve chosen to avoid the friend zone, so you can make sexual contact with said person, are your intentions towards this person good ones? Should they not be abandoned?

              Should you pursue someone for the sole object of having a sexual relationship with them without their friendship?

              It’s very dangerous ground on which to walk.

              (PS, I have not purchased the book because I am an objectum sexual)

            • http://www.pinchmycheekie.wordpress.com Cheekie

              “If you’re only friends with someone because you have some desire to extend that relationship beyond a platonic level, then you’re not actually friends at all.”

              Hmmm. Good point. Kinda reminds me of the Harry Burns School of Why Men And Women Can’t Be Friends.

              • http://www.hotbiscuitsandgravy.com Bengemin Grehe

                Except that they can be friends. Jus takes some objectivity and maturity. It’s really not all that difficult.

      • IsOurChildrenLearning?

        I’ve never been in there either. I think it’s less frequent in women.

        • IsOurChildrenLearning?

          Even more important, I’ve never made friends with somebody cuz I wanted them chexually. That honestly doesn’t make sense to me. That is what dating is for. I befriend people because I like their personality and that is all I need/want from them.

          • Yoles

            I befriend people because I like their personality and that is all I need/want from them.

            please say?loud IOCL…. i am so not down for this “friend zone” business

            • http://qalil-com.blogspot.com Qalil Little

              Me neither. Sounds highly suspicious.

          • coldsweat3

            I really think females are the perpetrators of the friend zoning crime while men are just victims. Another female stated she doesnt think she had ever been friend zoned earlier up thread and id like to end the mystery. Women are rarely friend zoned because we will never mind sleeping with you. Unless the woman is really horrible and has something wrong with her if she wanted to pursue something for just a night we would gladly oblige.

            • Racqs

              I think this is where intent comes into play. Yes women can be friend zoned, (or close bused), and quite frequently. If a woman really wants a relationship and the object of her affections is only interested in sleeping with her until the woman he ACTUALLY wants to date comes along, then guess what that is??? Sounds like a close bus/friend zone to me. And it happens much more often than you would think. Getting/giving the skins isn’t always the only goal for the one that’s being zoned.

              • http://qalil-com.blogspot.com Qalil Little

                I don’t think that is friend zone… must have another more kinda morbid name.

                • coldsweat3

                  Yah lets just keep it at Close-bus syndrome. If we merge the two then yes it does occur. But if we were sexually attracted to the woman and did not pursue her its because WE were friend zoned OR she developed close-bus syndrome(in the sense that something was not right for us to pursue a relationship)

          • http://www.twitter.com/creolesoul Wit, Tits or STFU

            I’ve never made friends with somebody cuz I wanted them chexually.

            This is why it happens less frequently to women; more often than not, men wanna beat, or sex is a huge part of why they want to be w/ a woman in a more-than-friendly way. Couple that w/ men typically being the pursuer (or, at least, being more “aggressive” in attempting to approach, regardless how milquetoast the manner may be), and BAM: more men get FZ-ed than women.

            Trust and believe though…while it may happen to women less than men, as frequently as women develop crushes on men, women get FZ-ed a lot more than they care to admit. The dynamics are just different.

        • http://verysmartbrothas.com The Champ

          “I’ve never been in there either. I think it’s less frequent in women.”

          you probably have been. it’s just that the rules of the male friend zone are a bit different

          • https://www.facebook.com/KatWebb1984 KitKatCuty84

            I agree. I think I’ve been male friend-zoned a time or two. I’m in a male friend zone rut at the moment. The male friend zone includes sex, but no commitment to you. I’m pretty sure the term “friends with benefits” is just another term for the male friend zone. You should write an article about how to get out of the male friend zone for women, ’cause either I figure out how to crack these NYC dudes, or I’m moving, LOL.

            • Alvin

              There is no getting out of the ‘friends with benefits’ phase. We decided a long time ago how far things would go.

              • https://www.facebook.com/KatWebb1984 KitKatCuty84

                Is this a shots fired moment? LOL. ;)

                When women stop settling for FWB from dudes, men will stop doing it and man up. And when I run into a dude who wants more than FWB, I’ll stop settling. :)

                • qozmic

                  Sorry KitKatCuty84… Alvin happens to be correct. Women stopping settline WILL NOT lead to men manning up… at least not with the woman he is FWB with… Men FWB a woman because that is the max limit of what he is interested in with that woman at that time. I think on rare occasions a woman can get outta that zone… just like a guy can escape the FZ, but it’s pretty rare. Not impossible, but rare.

                  Why?… Because the reason you’re there usually has to do with something really shallow: Guys love who we are attracted to, while women are attracted to who they love. On VERY rare occasion, a man will learn to be attracted to you for something other than your physicality. But 99% of the time, it’s the physicality… and we see that from day one, moment one….

                  There’s your answer… not the one women want to believe, but the truth nonetheless.

                  • https://www.facebook.com/KatWebb1984 KitKatCuty84

                    Not what I meant. I meant women will need to stop settling for being a dude’s FWB and find a dude that wants more from her than just what’s between her legs. And if ALL women stopped letting men treat them this way, then yes, men would have to actually PICK a woman to be with, instead of being allowed to sample any woman they’re attracted to, like is currently the case, especially in NYC, LOL.

                  • GirlSixx

                    “Guys love who we are attracted to, while women are attracted to who they love. On VERY rare occasion, a man will learn to be attracted to you for something other than your physicality. But 99% of the time, it’s the physicality… and we see that from day one, moment one….”

                    And there you have it!! Damn.

            • http://lizburr.com Liz

              i think ur right. male friend zone = friends with benefits. it explains why they’re so damn salty about being in the female friend zone–>because ours includes no sex at all.

              busters.

              im pretty sure one of the guys wrote about how to not be a friend with benefits tho. if they didn’t, the answer is: don’t even bother. (p.s. he ain’t worth it.)

              • https://www.facebook.com/KatWebb1984 KitKatCuty84

                Is it me, or do Liz, some of the other VSW’s and I need to do a girl’s night out? Maybe start brainstorming the response to “Your Degrees Won’t Keep You Warm at Night”, which is “New Pu$$y Can’t Cook (And Other Reasons Men Need to Move on From FWB and Casual Sex)”? LOL.

                • Racqs

                  I’m LOVING this title…. Send me the amazon link when this is published. lol

                  • http://twitter.com/simplysope simplysope

                    Can I get that mailed straight to my house? I got my PayPal ready, lol.

                • http://lizburr.com Liz

                  LMAOOOOOOOOOOO. I LOVE it!!!

                • Mr SoBo

                  @KitKatCuty84 – Great title. Love it. The first half sounds interesting. However, the latter half is seriously flawed for one simple reason. Since coitus actually requires two participants, men clearly are not the only ones in need of moving on from casual sex & FWB.

                  • https://www.facebook.com/KatWebb1984 KitKatCuty84

                    I believe we have PLENTY of books on the shelves putting women to blame for the situation. I wouldn’t mind giving them something to read that suggests they have some accountability. Also, very rarely is casual sex a woman’s goal. And very rarely is a relationship a man’s goal. So the men are the one’s who need the most help rehabbing from the new pu$$y habit.

                    • Mr SoBo

                      @KitKatCuty84 – Also, very rarely is casual sex a woman’s goal.” Sorcery.
                      S*xual liberation has women in hoards willfully embarking upon casual sexual relationships, which is why FWB is so commonplace. Unfortunately, it is not something many of you can handle due to emotional development & the unfavorable power dynamic. Feelings ultimately take control of the reins during such a relationship which shifts the intention from, “yeah,we can hook up” to “where is this going, I want more out of this”. In other words, ya’ll just aint built for this.
                      “And very rarely is a relationship a man’s goal.” Witchcraft. Relationships are always on a man’s agenda. The distinction is that we don’t try to establish a relationship with a woman simply because we’re fcuk*ng her.
                      “So the men are the one’s who need the most help rehabbing from the new pu$$y habit.” Jury is out on this one. :-) Cause new p*ssy is indeed one hell of a drug.

                    • https://www.facebook.com/KatWebb1984 KitKatCuty84

                      @MrSobo:

                      Your explanation about what happens when most women embark on a casual relationship is precisely why I said it wasn’t our goal. Our goal, even when we ATTEMPT to have a casual relationship, is almost always a relationship, hence why feelings take over and we start wanting “more”.

                      Tell me where these dudes are that want relationships. Almost every dude I met that is IN a relationship was uninterested in it at the time and just wound up there because he ran into a girl he liked. But no, that was not his goal, not on his agenda, and I’d argue THAT is why FWB situations are so commonplace.

                      And yes, pu$$y is one helluva drug (as is the male equivalent), but maybe we should all stop abusing drugs? I know, I know. It won’t ever happen. Pu$$y has plummeted again on the NASDAQ. SMDH…

                    • Mr SoBo

                      @KitKatCuty84- What your intentions are vs. what ultimately occurs are two different things. Just because a woman may END UP catching feelings doesn’t negate her initial intentions and somehow make them more noble now that she got caught up. So please, spare me the victimology. And in the instance that what you say is true, any woman that leads with her crotch as a means to a relationship deserves to be Friend Zoned. The same goes for a man that leads with trickin’ off his $$ and/or self respect.
                      The point is, women are not built for pussyfooting around. But it aint for a lack of trying thats for sure. The problem is, there is no learning taking place, as too many women continue to repeatedly approach every relationship in the same manner that time and time again has proven not to work.

                      Typically men do not actively pursue relationships. You are correct. We find ourselves in relationships with a woman we so happen to have a fondness for. More than likely, that woman embodies mostly everything we want in a mate which is why she has secured that position of someone significant. In other words, it wasnt her p*ssy that got her there. Men may not actively pursue relationships, but evidently we are not opposed to them either. It just takes ‘that chick’ and not just ‘a chick’ for us to take that step.

                    • http://www.twitter.com/kjnetic peter parker

                      “Tell me where these dudes are that want relationships.”

                      Hi, my name is…my name is…my name is ziggu-ziggy P-Parker

                    • https://www.facebook.com/KatWebb1984 KitKatCuty84

                      @Mr Sobo

                      I hardly think pointing out that drawbacks of casual sex for women and saying it isn’t our goal is playing victim. I’m pretty sure it’s just saying my particular viewpoint (and that of many women I know).

                      “any woman that leads with her crotch as a means to a relationship deserves to be Friend Zoned.”

                      Wowsers. I don’t think I said that anywhere in my post. In the words of Cher, “Way harsh, Tai.”

                      “Men may not actively pursue relationships, but evidently we are not opposed to them either. It just takes ‘that chick’ and not just ‘a chick’ for us to take that step.”

                      Then you’re agreeing with me. For, as I said, it’s not their goal. They find themselves there.

                      You don’t have to disagree with me just to disagree. If what I’m saying makes sense, it’s OK to admit it. I’ll start: Some of what you say has validity.

                    • Mr SoBo

                      @KitKatCuty84
                      Oh, so now you’re resorting to patronizing me.
                      Rest assured, if I felt any of what you said made sense, I would have said so without hesitation. And I acknowledged that (partially) with regards to your observations on the male pursuit of relationships. Everything else was rooted in ca ca. Particularly your trying to pass off “..pointing out that drawbacks of casual sex for women and saying it isn’t our goal…” as some innocently misguided yet noble relationship endeavor that somehow goes awry…leaving poor helpless women who were merely seeking true love, tangled in the web of an unfulfilling sexual pseudorelationship weaved by the sex crazed octop*$$y/spider men who are averse to relationships. This is what you want me to agree with and acknowledge as sensible? Surely you jest.

                  • https://www.facebook.com/KatWebb1984 KitKatCuty84

                    Giving DUDES something to read that suggest accountablity for themselves, that is. Forgive the typo.

                  • nillalatte

                    “Since coitus actually requires two participants, men clearly are not the only ones in need of moving on from casual sex & FWB.”

                    Ooooohhhhh, SNAP!

                • FormerlyImperfect

                  my bitter behind is definitely feelin in good company. Lol.
                  Put me down for the afterword

                • qozmic

                  Again… I think you’re wasting your time trying to change what men LIKE. That’s like trying to convince a woman that chocolate doesn’t taste good.. or shoe shoppin is boring. Not gonna happen. People like what they like.

                  Trying to get men to stop wanting to smash women they have no intention of actually committing to would be like getting women to stop going out on dates with buster they have no intention of lettin even SMELL the coochie. As long as free lobster with no strings attached beyond polite conversation is on the table, dudes will continue to get …puh-layed. And women will continue to be in the FWB situation.

                  • https://www.facebook.com/KatWebb1984 KitKatCuty84

                    I’m not trying to change what dudes like. I’m trying to change what dudes DO. Maybe if we stopped glorifying the FWB situation, dudes would realize it’s not all it’s cracked up to be…and that chlamydia is everywhere.

                • DanceHallKing

                  But I don’t need a woman to cook?

            • Justme (the guy)

              “I agree. I think I’ve been male friend-zoned a time or two. I’m in a male friend zone rut at the moment. The male friend zone includes sex, but no commitment to you.”

              Exactly! The male friend zone almost ALWAYS includes sex (if the girl is at least decent looking). Males would much rather a friends with benefits scenario than a relationship, so we have a friend zone, but sex is on the menu for our “friends”. The whole premise of the friend zone is being interested in someone in a way that they aren’t interested in you, but being strung along as if it might happen one day. Great point

              • Be On It

                It might be just me, but when I’ve been put in the FZ by a dude, there was never chex involved. Why? Because Be don’t give out cookies without a contract. And if Be don’t get her contract, Be holds grudges. And grudges mean the libido goes from 60 to zero in no time flat.

                This didn’t always result in successful relationship history, but I never felt like a dude didn’t at least put in work to obtain the chex, especially cuz on an HBCU campus it flows freely and often.

            • GirlSixx

              LOL

            • resIpsa

              Girl – ain’t no “cracking” a NYC dude.
              you either find a good one, or you find a LOT of lemons.
              i’m from Bklyn and i ain’t NEVER met a dude IN NYC below the age of 30 that articulated that he wanted to get married before 30. sure – i’ve met them outside of NYC, and maybe a change of environment had changed their perspective, but there is just TOO many various women in NYC for dudes to smang; get the friendship w/ benefits; or just get the 1-night stands.
              and i don’t think my fellow NY’ers will disagree.
              have your fun, KitKat, but guard your heart! <3

              • Yoles

                i don’t know… i’m a new yorker… never lived anywhere else and i have been married 2x before 30 and i have quite a few friends that were also married <30 and were new yorkers as well… and just to be clear, regular guys not crazy, desperate, simps, bustas or whatever wack guys are called now…

                • https://www.facebook.com/KatWebb1984 KitKatCuty84

                  Well feel free to share, please? Not that I want to get multiple times and have none work out, but I’d be happy with ONE marriage that DID work out. :) I am TOTALLY open to non-NYC dudes, though. Checking out Philly. Seeing what’s the deal. Maybe CT, NJ and DC too…LOL.

    • http://www.twitter.com/makinghisstory Evan McAuthur Kane

      it’s the like when dorothy ended-up in OZ…and all the munchkins, magic and ruby heels were cool for a minute–but then that sh*t got old and she just wanted to go home (and by “home” i mean getting sufficiently, “i need an unlit cigarette and a cold-press” laid).

      but you don’t have to take my word for it…”i have have had my mind spun around in space.” lol
      http://youtu.be/cnKQN7TF4hQ

  • http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=M5FR1LGsT7E TheAnti-Cool

    (wonders if I should don my riot gear for this post)

    • http://www.twitter.com/makinghisstory Evan McAuthur Kane

      one step ahead of you… [fastens helmet]

    • Yoles

      i’m here to watch too

    • http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hmFAMRaNC9I BmoreCreative

      *lighting Molotov cocktail, blasting “fight the power” outta tape deck*

      • http://www.twitter.com/drrdb TWIsM81

        I laughed that you have Public Enemy on cassette in your tape deck. I don’t know why that was funny to me.

      • kinnyb

        That gave me a visuals of Flava Flav doing his hype man shimmy….

  • http://www.awordorthree.com Crystal Marie

    Advice that would be significantly more helpful: Women, How you can get out of our friend zone. Guys do this too! Or is there no hope for friend zoned women?

    • lotusflower11

      I second this motion!

    • spottieottiedarlin

      Sigh, the friend zone guys place women in is far more cruel and subtle. Great question, CM. Let me pull up a chair and wait with you for this answer. \_

      • TheRealestLeo

        Yeah, I am pretty much evil with my Friend Zone. Especially since it takes so little for me to put a woman there.

        • Shelby

          “Especially since it takes so little for me to put a woman there.”

          I find this statement pretty interesting since you’ve said a time or fifty that you get friend-zoned a lot by women. The fact that it takes so little to put a woman in your own friend zone might explain some of the challenges you’ve experienced. Just my 2 chons (congrats on leaving Korea btw)…

          • TheRealestLeo

            I have a really low tolerance for BS out of women….therefore I’m quick to put a woman in the Friend Zone if I think she’s trying to play me.

            • http://awordorthree.com Crystal Marie

              Give an example please. “She ain’t iron my shirts right… she laughed like a hyena…” I’m interested.

              • TheRealestLeo

                Examples: She’s materialistic…..she’s shallow. She has made poor choices in men in her past. She treats people badly. She tries to get me to pull Boyfriend Duty (defined downthread). She only comes around me when she wants or needs something from me. She doesn’t value my qualities and attributes.

                • TheRealestLeo

                  Basically, 83.3 percent of the women I ran across at Howard and here in the military.

                  • Yoles

                    TRL

                    poor choices on men in the past?!?!? you sir are something else… hopefully as we age and mature our decision making skills get better… killing someone off for bad choices made while younger will kill us all off in no time. maybe she is trying to make better choices. we all have skeletons in our closet

                    • TheRealestLeo

                      I understand that, Yoles.

                      But I will NOT entertain a woman that is STILL making poor relationship choices in the present day. It was cute when she was 16….not so much at 27.

                      And also, on a more realistic note…How seriously am I supposed to take a woman who has expressed either a direct lack of interest in me or a general lack of interest in men like me (via the type of men she chooses instead)? How could such women NOT get Friend Zoned?

                    • Yoles

                      TRL
                      but how is she making poor relationship choices now, if she is interested in YOU??

                      and like i said before we age, and hopefully grow and mature, outlook change, goals change, even desires change… i think someone that has been through some shyt can appreciate good when they have it… no i’m not saying get with the town hole, but a person that has been to hell and back sure looks at the scenery different now

                    • TheRealestLeo

                      @ Yoles

                      Being interested in me isn’t the ‘poor relationship choice’. It’s the whole “she didn’t like me when I actually was interested in her, but now that I’ve moved on and some time has passed, she’s interested in me when it seems to be convenient for her” thing that grinds my gears.

                      To me, that’s akin to coming in last….being the Plan B…..being “straight scraps”, and at least four other terms covered by Panama I can’t think of at the moment.

        • ChloeRayne516

          O__o

          Really????

          O__o

          *GoesBack2ReadTRLPreviousComments*

          • miss t-lee

            Bwhahahha

          • http://www.pinchmycheekie.wordpress.com Cheekie

            LMAO.

      • DQ

        Show some interest, and by interest I mean skin… preferably some cleavage (I’m just sayin that’s how you would win me over)

        It’s cool to hang out, but he can’t ever forget you’re a lady. You come over rocking the hoodie and jeans, playing video games – you will become the cool a$$ homegirl… and you’ll get to hear about all the chicks they’re giving the pipe to while they’re not checking for you.

        • http://www.hotbiscuitsandgravy.com Bengemin Grehe

          Dude, be serious. We don’t care if she’s rockin a hoodie and jeans. If she’s got a fat åss, cute face and a chest, which the hoodies don’t always hide, you’ll try to smash if you can.

          • DQ

            If she has a fat a$$ (that’s well put together and not one of the poorly formed donks that look like partially inflated hot air balloons) chances are you won’t forget she’s a lady. My point is directed at women who, basically, minimize everything that’s feminine or uniquely womanly about themselves – to basically NOT do that. It’s the recipe for little “sistering”.

            • http://www.hotbiscuitsandgravy.com Bengemin Grehe

              Fair enough.

        • http://twitter.com/Phidelity15 Phidelity15

          Finally!! A man that appreciates the twins ;-) Erybody out here ain’t got a whole lotta a$$.

          • DQ

            It’s an under-appreciated asset (or set of assets) as far as I’m concerned.

            In short: Everybody wins with twins.

            Don’t question it… it rhymes… it must be true.

            • http://twitter.com/Phidelity15 Phidelity15

              As a twin with twins…I approve this message.

              • Yoles

                i’m not a twin but i got some twins and i approve too!!!!!!

      • Medium Meech

        I think Champ left a pretty good map on how to get out of the friend zone and where it leads.

        • http://www.hotbiscuitsandgravy.com Bengemin Grehe

          Not really. He mapped out more of how to prevent yourself from getting into the “friend zone”. The number one rule he forgot to mention is that you actually have to make yourself attractive to the woman. Jus cuz she likes you as a person, doesn’t mean she finds you sêxy. So, if you’re really her “friend”, you should be able to figure out what her idea of sêxy is. Become that. And if that means changing your entire persona to meet that idea, then you probably weren’t meant to smash anyway. Which means you’re an idiot for sticking around when there are plenty of other women to chase.

          • IsOurChildrenLearning?

            I agree with this whole message

          • Medium Meech

            I literally meant the illustration (the picture avec Mario) was a good map on how to get out and where it leads.

            • Mr SoBo

              lol!

      • coldsweat3

        If your a woman and you want to get out of the friend zone theres a magical event that happens twice a year that can help you move up in the world…..

        The Victorias Secret Semi-Annual Sale. Problem solved

      • LMNOP

        This might be a dumb comment, but
        if you’re a woman couldn’t you basically get out of the friend zone just by saying you want to fck?

        • http://www.twitter.com/drrdb TWIsM81

          Nope. You’ll just solidify your place there.

          • Racqs

            I second this comment.

          • GirlSixx

            Basically..

    • miss t-lee

      My piece of advice? Move on. Don’t wait on some kat to take you outta the friend zone. Once you’ve moved on, he’ll come calling…then make your move. If you still want him, go for it. If you don’t, friend zone his azz. :-). *snickers*

      • http://shesoflyy.wordpress.com Muze

        words to live by.

        and it works. lol

        • miss t-lee

          Indeed it does. LIke colt 45. Every.single.time.

      • Shelby

        I think this comment deserves the passing of the collection plate…

        Never fails…

        • miss t-lee

          We’ll take the kind that jingles, but we prefer the kind that folds. :)

          • E

            God Bless Coming to America…and Soul Glo of course.

            • miss t-lee

              YES!!!! :) A day w/o a Coming To America quote, is not a day I wanna see. :)

      • http://awordorthree.com Crystal Marie

        hahahahaa. Love it.

        • miss t-lee

          :)

      • ThisIshRightHereNinja

        Ninjas are SO uncomplicated. #neverfails

        • miss t-lee

          So simple a caveman can do it…lol

      • http://thatswhatgemsaid.wordpress.com Gem Jones

        gold goon star for miss t-lee!!!!!!

        • miss t-lee

          #RGS mayne!!!!

      • http://twitter.com/Phidelity15 Phidelity15

        ….and the test is now over. Please pass your papers to the front of the class cuz Miss T-Lee done schooled ‘em!

        • miss t-lee

          gold stars for everyone!! :)

      • Racqs

        Yes! This right here…. teach Pastor Teacher!

      • T

        It works like a charm.

      • nillalatte

        Whooop, there it is! :D

    • theeclectic

      The friend zoned woman is one the saddest places a woman can be in…right after being Flava Flav’s baby mama…

      A friend zoned man may end up doing housework…

      but a friend zoned woman ends up being a “wing man”

      The psychological effects of this is irreversible..

      • http://lizburr.com Liz

        eh. not necessarily. i feel like im a friend zoned woman a lot of times and if anything it gives you a look into just how trifling men are. well, that part sucks, but what you learn is invaluable lolol.

        • theeclectic

          you’re right…there is something to be said about being in the friend zone. You do get insider info and you can have convos that you couldn’t normally have with your gfs…
          but, if for some reason you start to like this guy it will take an act of God and a Spanx clad Jesus to get him to notice you in that way…

          However, as a habitual friend zonee I have found I don’t even like dude after I get to know him like that lol

          • http://lizburr.com Liz

            Hmm. Perhaps. But I do think if you either give them some time or give them some kinda signal, they will actually try to hit on you at some point. Actually, they don’t even need a signal. Again, men will consider anyone for chex. LOL. They’re simple like that.

            But you’re right. The insider info will really make you look at them in a totally different way. Men should never friend zone a woman. it’s bad for humanity. ya’ll are really gross underneath it all. keep that info to yourselves lol.

            • Ivy St.

              But because he will chex u, does that mean you are no longer in the friend zone? I assume in the context of this post people who are friend zoned want more than just chex. They want a relationship. If that isn’t the case, I agree, men will chex anybody, but women won’t.

              • http://lizburr.com Liz

                Hmm I’m not sure. the way the post sounds to me is, relationships arent the goal. sex is. in fact, this post is all about how to avoid being friends with somebody you wanna have sex with. im not sure how one plans to have a relationship while avoiding friendship.

        • http://pinchmycheekie.wordpress.com Cheekie

          Even amongst the angst, I’ve learned to appreciate being a wing woman. You truly do learn a lot about guys in this element. lol

      • http://www.hotbiscuitsandgravy.com Bengemin Grehe

        Really?

    • http://loveaq.tumblr.com loveaq

      yes i was just about to ask this question too! *pulls up a chair && waits*

    • http://www.twitter.com/drrdb TWIsM81

      I really don’t think there’s an equivalent Male Friend Zone to compare to women’s. See, if a man is in a woman’s FZ, there is a high likelihood he will NEVER get any action from said woman.

      Men will always find a way to give women play. Don’t believe me? Check out all the broke-down, took-a-hit-with-a-hot-sack-of-quarters-to-the-face looking women bringing 10+ men to Maury to figure out who her baby’s daddy is.

      No further questions at this time, Your Honor.

      • theeclectic

        LOL..but thats what I’ve been saying… Being bangable and being Boo worthy are 2 totally different things…

        If we have a problem with being in the friend zone that means we want something more….

        but alas that never seems to happen… how many dudes you know ended up with his “play sister”

        • http://www.twitter.com/drrdb TWIsM81

          Sooooo, you’re asking how to escape the “Friends With Benefits” Zone?

          • theeclectic

            Lol…no..I understand you don’t have to be hired to reap the “benefits”
            what I’m saying is, If a female likes her male friend, like really likes him, but dude only thinks of her as a homegirl, how does she get out of that to become someone who thinks of on a relationship level (beyond sexual)

            In my experience I have never seen that happen…not saying that is doesn’t…but still…

            • http://www.hotbiscuitsandgravy.com Bengemin Grehe

              Does it need to? Is he not valuable just as a friend? Or is that friendship only validated if a relationship comes along with it?

              • theeclectic

                Definitely not validated with an relationship…

                Hypothetically of course (no Lyfe)
                This person is your friend for a reason. There is something about him/her that you like…even on a friend level.

                As you get to know this person you realize s/he has qualities that you would want in a partner…one-sided feelings develop from there…

                Not saying all of the time…but most of the time this is unplanned..then what?

            • http://www.twitter.com/drrdb TWIsM81

              I could give you an answer that would be nice, but essentially it would be a lie. Typically men have two categories of women: The Ones they wanna Wife and Err’body Else. If you’re not already in the Wife/Long-Term Relationship category there’s a very strong chance that’s it.

              Now there are some variables including the guy’s age, number of friends he has that are currently married, etc. that can affect women’s status changing, but I wouldn’t hold out too much hope.

              • theeclectic

                ..I salute you sir

              • FormerlyImperfect

                Totally unrelated, but your teeth are beautiful! Lol

                • http://www.twitter.com/drrdb TWIsM81

                  Thank you. Had my teeth locked up for a few years before they decide to walk the straight and narrow.

                  • Noemi

                    lol- I agree with FormerlyImperfect & lmao to your response!

                  • Be On It

                    I see you switched the avi. Was the response to your sweetie pie face not as strong as as the smile pic? For shame! LOL

                    • Noemi

                      lmao!!! No, I’ve been meaning to do it for a while. I finally found the time to do it!! The other pic. was just old

                    • http://www.twitter.com/drrdb TWIsM81

                      @Be On It

                      I’ve actually switched pics twice. What can I say? I’m a free spirit. I like change, so my pics will revolve. Stay tuned…

          • bumilla

            yes. is this even possible? bc this is a BS place to be. BS, i say!

            a few years back, i was busy with school and work so i didn’t pay enough attention, acted out of my face, and then got salty about where my feelings were. took me two additional men to get my sh*t right again after that fool. i had a few friends tell me to give him time but i cut him off. every now and again, i think- could i have been more xyz or something?

        • DQ

          *Thinks about it*

          None.

      • ChloeRayne516

        See, if a man is in a woman’s FZ, there is a high likelihood he will NEVER get any action from said woman.

        Yes and No!!. It all depends — if chick is on a dry spell she may throw FZ dude a bone and let him have a TASTE.. :)

    • Medium Meech

      Depends on what zone you’re trying to relocate to.

      • bumilla

        a zone where i don’t have to meet you in the middle of the night like a hooker … you were missed yesterday day day.

        (liz, don’t hurt me. i’m just minding my business!)

        • http://lizburr.com Liz

          LOL! You good.

    • http://verysmartbrothas.com The Champ

      same advice. chill with the “homegirl/bff” shit and don’t befriend men that you’re interested in starting a relationship with

      • IsOurChildrenLearning?

        Yup, it’s really that simple. It rarely grows into the relationship that the “friendzoned” party is waiting for. I’ve actually never seen it turn into a real realtionship.

      • http://twitter.com/SmartFoxGirl SmartFoxGirl

        GREAT ADVICE

    • FormerlyImperfect

      I don’t think guys put us in the friend zone. I think they decide that they don’t want to be in a relationship with us, but they’ll keep us around cause they still want the goods.
      Far worse than the friend zone.

      What guys do requires some level of conscious deception. Despite that they might say that they aren’t looking for a relationship A.) The fact is they aren’t looking for a relationship with us and B.) They willingly engage us in sex (a relationship activity). And while most guys SAY that they made their intentions clear (they aren’t looking for a relationship), I’m pretty sure they know that particularly after we have sex, we believe their intentions have changed.

      So how do we (women) stay out of the friend (I’m using the word reluctantly) zone…if/when a guy says he is not looking for a relationship, don’t give him a relationship. Of any kind.

      Easier said. Cause we tend to think we can change men and once they get to know us they will fall for us. And I think to an extent that may be true. But chances are once a guy has decided that he just wants to screw you, he will not put himselves in situations where he is forced to get to know you otherwise

      \end rant

      • Andi

        “I don’t think guys put us in the friend zone. I think they decide that they don’t want to be in a relationship with us, but they’ll keep us around cause they still want the goods.
        Far worse than the friend zone.” <- Truth.com

      • http://lizburr.com Liz

        I cosign on all of this. it’s happened to me far too many times to be a fluke.

        but there’s gotta be a better solution than just cutting them loose entirely. I know because I do this. It just feels like all it does is leave a trail of failed friendships and situationships.

        Maybe the solution is to never talk to men ever again.

        • FormerlyImperfect

          Maybe the solution is to never talk to men ever again

          I’ve considered this. I don’t like that option either

        • Tx10inch

          Maybe the solution is to never talk to men ever again.

          Sounds like you’re giving up. You’re not becoming a frustrated Liz-bian are you?

          • http://lizburr.com Liz

            LOL. Naw. Trust, if I could I would.

            I’m just going back to the drawing board. Ya’ll see i am celibate now!! I am trying something new and different lol. Somethings gotta work. I’ll let ya’ll know how it goes…

            • Tx10inch

              Well…I definently respect your “walk” but imma just say it…you need to get laid! The new celibate has been very goonish lately (IMO). We miss happy go lucky got laid Liz! Lol! #dontbanmegurl

              • http://lizburr.com Liz

                I have been laid(-ish) (sigh. long story). It doesn’t really make a difference. Honestly at this point, sex probably harms me more than helps, especially casual sex.

                I’ve always been this way btw. Anyone who read my blog(s) several years ago (believe it or not, i used to be somebody separate from these two) knows I was much worse (ie goonish) than what you saw/see on VSB. I was previously ghost on VSB due to several reasons (too busy, didn’t care as much, it was a Wednesday, caring too much about my “brand”).

                You don’t have to like me the way I am. It’s not a requirement to be here :)

                • Tx10inch

                  I like ya Liz. Always have, even though I’ve gotten tha vibe tha feeling isn’t mutual. Itz kool. It tiz what it tiz..Just noticed you kinda seemed extra uptight lately on here and wanted to make ya smile a little! But since “I don’t have to be here” I’ll go back to my corner and cry….while I eat this turkey sandwich. With mustard, no miracle whip. And a sweet pickle. And delicious sweet tea. Wait…what was I sayin?

                  • http://lizburr.com Liz

                    LOL I LIKE YOU TOO!! Sorry if you felt like i didin’t. i know i sound crazy sometimes but it really is only momentary :lol:

                    and when i said you dont have to be here, i meant you dont have to like me in order to be here! everyone is welcome.

                  • http://twitter.com/SmartFoxGirl SmartFoxGirl

                    Hey hey hey. I LOVE the goony Liz. After all, she’s moderator and checking foos is what it be bout. Na’mean? She likes you, we likes you, you good but I must tell you that Liz walks amongst a few goons here, myself included and we aint having whole heaps of s.ex, na’mean….and its gonna be like that, we gon’ be like that…

                    and you gonna like it.

                    Capiche?

                    • http://lizburr.com Liz

                      LOLL. high five.

                    • Tx10inch

                      and you gonna like it.
                      Capiche?

                      *tied up and blindfolded* YES MA’AM, MAY I HAVE ANOTHER!!!!

                      j/k, I like Liz’s moderation gangsta OF COURSE! Keeps these cats in check. I was just tryin to get her to loosin up a lil lately that’s all. Poor job by me! *pops own hand* bad Tx, bad Tx..lol Liz, we good. Got MUCH love for you and your struggle!

        • mochazina

          Real, ultimate, most effective solution? marriage, then chex. (gotta throw it out there ;-) )

          Otherwise, at least put an embargo on selling chex for relationships, cuz as many dudes in this thread are saying (and it’s the wunhunnit troof), they already know who is relationship worthy long before they admit it to anyone else. Everything outside of that is simply chex to tide them over till they get to the real thing. Always coca-cola.

          • http://lizburr.com Liz

            Real, ultimate, most effective solution? marriage, then chex. (gotta throw it out there ;-) )

            Yeah this is the actual solution to eliminate the confusion but nobody here is trying to hear that. So, I play along as devil’s advocate. But you’re right. That’s my actual solution in the end.

            If I thought holding out for relationships worked, I’d maybe try it. but I don’t believe it does. once you concede to before marriage then all bets are off. it’s just a matter of time before something trifling happens.

            • FormerlyImperfect

              Totally agree with you on this one (and about 95% of everything else you’ve said today.

              Startin to think we were separated at birth Liz

            • mochazina

              “once you concede to before marriage then all bets are off.”

              also true. but i will stand by the embargo on auctioning chex for relationships part. it’s def not the way to go no matter what. now if chex is just something to do, that’s a whole nother thing, but believing that the auction will work is one of the fatal flaws of singledom heartbreaks.

      • http://www.hotbiscuitsandgravy.com Bengemin Grehe

        Although I agree with the majority of your comment,

        “I don’t think guys put us in the friend zone. I think they decide that they don’t want to be in a relationship with us, but they’ll keep us around cause they still want the goods.”

        This is not true. Maybe on a general level, perhaps. But it’s not true.

        • FormerlyImperfect

          “This is not true. Maybe on a general level, perhaps. But it’s not true.”

          Can you expound?

        • http://lizburr.com Liz

          how is it not true? and true on a general level but still not true?

          • http://www.hotbiscuitsandgravy.com Bengemin Grehe

            You’d be surprised. Quite a few guys will “friend zone” a woman jus to be cool with her. Sure, some will keep em around jus for the possibility of smashing, but I don’t think it’s enough on general level. There are dudes who jus like bein cool with a chick.

            • http://lizburr.com Liz

              hmmm. sounds like a unicorn breed of men. i wish there were more of them around!

            • FormerlyImperfect

              Straight men?

              • http://www.hotbiscuitsandgravy.com Bengemin Grehe

                Yes. Straight. Really? You took it to the “he must be gay” explanation.

                • FormerlyImperfect

                  Lol. That was honestly my first thought…It’s a rarity

                  I have maybe three guy friends that have genuinely friend-zoned me. I do not believe that given the opportunity to make a move, either of them would not.
                  Doesn’t make me feel less valued as a friend, but it does make me feel less friend-like.

                • http://www.twitter.com/drrdb TWIsM81

                  I’ll cosign with what Ben is saying. It’s not a special breed of men, it’s the men that are secure in their position in life. When men get over the idea that women are scarce and they need to hop at any and every opportunity that presents itself, they’re not always looking for the next hook-up. That’s when they’re cool with just being friends with a woman.

                  Kind of a separate topic, but true nonetheless.

                  • http://www.hotbiscuitsandgravy.com Bengemin Grehe

                    Very true. It’s like, at what do you tell yourself that enough is enough. You don’t gotta pounce on everything.

                  • FormerlyImperfect

                    Perhaps the same is true of women.

                    Admittedly, I don’t seek sole friendships with men. The friendships I have with guys have all just happened. We were one of a small minority in a predominately white school. We worked together. We grew up together and our lives are so intertwined it’d just be awkward not to be friends…I have one guy friend who friend-zoned me quick. More like he just shut me down so early on that I couldn’t develop a genuine interest in him, but I knew him well enough to know he was a keeper as a friend.
                    But the truth is I don’t trust the intentions of guys that say they just wanna be friends. Another truth is I don’t think I want to be solely friends with most guys I meet. I either want to date them or I don’t and if I don’t, I don’t usually keep them around (and I think I’m pretty typical of most “typical” women). I think I am always (consciously or sub-consciously) seeking ‘the one’ so I’m always puttin myself out there and I can’t risk fallin for a friend who isn’t interested in me and losing a friend along with my pride and the wholeness of my heart…(again).
                    …and of course there’s more to that ideology, but I think you’d get it. Men don’t intentionally befriend women because they don’t wanna be friend-zoned and women don’t intentionally befriend men cause we don’t wanna be close-bussed.
                    Venus vs. Mars cause men are always looking for a way to screw and women are always looking for a way to not just screw

                    I talk too much…

      • bumilla

        i find most of this statement to be correct and flawfree.

        dude, if you don’t want me- a) don’t make me breakfast; b) don’t drive me home; c) don’t kiss me goodbye; d) let’s not run errands and ish together; e) don’t let me meet family members in a gathering. hit it and pretend to sleep when i get up, go potty, and put myself back together. then i don’t think you are changing, i don’t have to bring you up to my grrls, and i can keep my wits about me. everyone wins!

        • FormerlyImperfect

          Signin right x___________________ here!!

        • Please, No Photos

          @ bumilla
          Seems like what you describe in a) through e) would be better than him simply leaving money on the night stand. Sounds like he just showing you some respect (as a friend).

          I got lady friends that I run errands with. If we truly friends, why can’t she meet my peeps?

          • bumilla

            I got lady friends that I run errands with. If we truly friends, why can’t she meet my peeps?

            is this someone you are seeing all kinds of nekkid on a weekly basis? that’s the problem. it’s not a TRUE friendship, now is it?

            also, you calling me a hooker? O_o

            • Tx10inch

              also, you calling me a hooker? O_o

              lmao.

          • FormerlyImperfect

            97.2 % of women cannot seperate lust and love. I don’t believe most men are stupid enough to assume otherwise. So if you are screwing a friend and that friend is a girl, you have just nonverbally committed to some romantic extent. And any behavior following said sexual activity is subject to interpretation through the eyes of someone who is dating you.
            Being introduced to the boys = He really likes me. Particularly if you introduced her by name only (cause that means they’ve heard about her, so you’ve been talking about her, which solidifies her belief that you really like her)

      • TheRealestLeo

        I put women in the Friend Zone. Hell, someone’s got to tell them “Hell to the no” when they try to get you to pull “Boyfriend Duty”…..defined, that’s when a woman that you’re “just friends” with tries to get you to do things that her boyfriend/boo/whatever dude actually is laying the pipe should be doing.

        No way….Not TRL.

      • http://verysmartbrothas.com The Champ

        I don’t think guys put us in the friend zone. I think they decide that they don’t want to be in a relationship with us, but they’ll keep us around cause they still want the goods.
        Far worse than the friend zone

        this is called “close bus syndrome”

        • FormerlyImperfect

          I call it reason number 54 why I’m off men when I’m off men

        • Around the Way Girl

          “And yes, I still maintain that A) Most women are very aware when guys they’re just not that into are very into them and B) It’s some foul sh*t to keep him around by continually and intentionally being just affectionate enough that he thinks that he might get a chance some day. Assholes.”

          And yes, I still maintain that A) Most men are very aware when girls they’re just not that into are very into them and B) It’s some foul sh*t to keep her around by continually and intentionally being just affectionate enough that she thinks that she might get a chance some day. Assholes.

          :)

          Honestly, though, I think that often (not always) the affection that both men and women show their friend-zoned wannabe boos is not just intentional manipulation to keep those people around- it’s genuine. I’ve been in the friend zone as a youngster, and looking back on that situation, the guy wasn’t being an @sshole. He actually liked me and wanted me around. He would call/text me, make plans with me, look out for me, compliment me, and do the occasional really nice thing for me because I was his friend. He probably knew I liked him, so he probably could have toned it down a little to help me out, but like I said we were young. I, too, have had guys in the friend zone, and have done the same thing, because I did have some real affection for those guys. It was natural. The thing is, the person in love or the person with a crush will grab onto any glimmer of hope and hold onto it for dear life. Sometimes they know they’re being silly and have no chance, but it just hurts so good to be around that person. I wouldn’t put the blame on the one doing the friend zoning; the only one who can keep a person in the friend zone is that person him/herself. Once you get a life and move on, it’s all gravy. Either that person will want you and you can decide what to do with them, or you will have moved on to someone else you like even better.

          Case in point: that guy who had friend zoned me saw me one day a year later, after I had moved on and started dating someone else, and I could tell he was looking at me in a whole new light lol. I had physically matured a little, and I had lost my virginity so I guess I had that glow. During our convo he told me I was looking good, with pure lust in his eyes and a strange little smile on his face. It was awesome.

      • Justme (the guy)

        Is keepin a chick as a friend and giving her sex on the regular really worst than keeping a dude on the side and NEVER giving him a bone? I respectfully disagree. At least the sex is a consolation prize…A silver medal if you will lol

        “Despite that they might say that they aren’t looking for a relationship A.) The fact is they aren’t looking for a relationship with us and B.) They willingly engage us in sex (a relationship activity). And while most guys SAY that they made their intentions clear (they aren’t looking for a relationship), I’m pretty sure they know that particularly after we have sex, we believe their intentions have changed.

        I respectfully disagree. When we say we aren’t looking for a relationship, we mean just that. We never said we weren’t looking for goodies. And no I don’t assume after sex that a chick thinks my intentions have changed. I just assume that she’s a grown woman with needs as I’m a grown man with needs…(shrugs)

      • GirlSixx

        Go check out SBM.org Post from yesterday and read the comments. It’ll Change Your Life.

        #NuffSaid

      • Cris Until I Find a Clever Name

        thank you for the TRUTH!

    • Sagey Bear

      no hope for friend zoned women….not for a long term relationship.

      Just best friend privilege & position abuse.

      I don’t really have a ton of personal experience with this….when I friend zone women, I don’t actually see them as only friends, the option is always open…but I’m rare…the women don’t know that….they take friend zone as death….and de-friend me. I don’t miss anything but looking at their beautiful faces and figures.

      There is a reason they get friend zoned…I honestly don’t know if I can handle their personalities. Intellectually silly, spiritually vapid, dough-eyed, bitter & hypocritical seem to run the gambit or blithely effervescent. I need me a good middle ground woman. Someone who goes up and down with the weather. Can step outside of that and smile on command and mean it…just dynamic on a molecular level, not shallow and open to communicate without bias….w/e…

    • http://twitter.com/SmartFoxGirl SmartFoxGirl

      I’ve never been friend zoned by a man…ever. Champ gave some good advice in this thread. If a man’s not feeling me, I’m not hanging around in the pretendo “be his friend in hopes he changes his mind” type of thing. You don’t get s.ex from me, you don’t get to talk to me about your current women, nada. I need to be in control of my feelings. lol

    • WIP

      Pull it out.
      (See my #4)
      This works for women as well.

    • qozmic

      From my experience Crystal marie, the only thing that ever turned a woman around in my mind, was SERIOUSLY not acting like a typical woman, ie, getting her way indirectly.. and instead treating me with respect…ie, not faulting me for wanting what I want, and instead accepting what I am willing to offer (or not offer), and be happy with that. (or not…and respectfully move one)

      I know… not what you want to hear. But the truth.

    • qozmic

      To illustrate my point:

      Imagine it from the other perspective…. Imagine you are a dude hopelessly diggin a woman you have been taking on expensive dates, only to be given a polite peck on the cheek and pat on the head (and not even the good one) at the end of the night. That woman is perfectly happy lettin you continue to be a sucker. What can that guy do to get you to sleep with him, if you really just don’t want to?… Nothing. So he will either continue accepting what you offer (dates with no booty), or grow a pair and some self-respect and move on…

      It’s not really that complicated…

  • BlackGirlWhoReads

    “Take the p*ssy off the pedestal, and put where it belong: on the dining room table.”
    -The Champion

    This might be the most quotable part of this post… Maybe it’s because I’m a born again virgin these days, by force and not by choice… Wait, what was I talking about? Oh yeah, sex is good. Escape from the friend zone like Assata from the Clinton Correctional Facility. And the best way to escape the friend zone is detailed in #3: ignore the heck out of her until she notices.

    We chicks hate to be ignored… especially by guys who puppy dogged us for months.

    • Mz Under-Stood

      this is so ttrue.!

      • http://betroit.wordpress.com Betroit

        I have recently seen this first hand

        boy is interested in girl
        girl places boy in friend zone with sure fire signs “buddy, not ready for a relationship(unsolicited), etc.”
        boy peeps game and ignores girl
        girl notices boy dating other women
        boy gets text from girl wanting to set up a lunch date

        why is it that women’s interest peaks at this point? is it the lack of attention or the fact that someone else found him attractive?

        • http://verysmartbrothas.com The Champ

          why is it that women’s interest peaks at this point? is it the lack of attention or the fact that someone else found him attractive?

          it’s both

        • Yoles

          the lack of attention AND the fact that someone else found him attractive is the one-two combo to get women…

          • http://twitter.com/SmartFoxGirl SmartFoxGirl

            Yas! <— that's country for Yes.

        • http://www.twitter.com/drrdb TWIsM81

          Nothing makes a person more attractive than other people thinking you’re attractive.

          • http://twitter.com/eazylittle Eazy

            Chuuuch.

        • TheRealestLeo

          In terms of Game, the other women he ended up dealing with Validated him for her.

          Women always want the man they see that someone else wants as well—but seldom the man that is available and single.

    • Hawaii

      We chicks hate to be ignored… especially by guys who puppy dogged us for months.
      So effin’ real.

      • sunshyne84

        I must be cut from a different cloth cuz that makes absolutely no sense to me. When a guy I’m not interested in gets a new love interest I am happy and relieved.

        • Deeds

          I must be from that same cloth as you cuz that doesn’t work for me either. I know that a guy was trying to switch up the game I guess by telling me all the s.ex he was having and how he just recently had s.ex with some chick. This had the exact opposite effect on me. My interest decreased even more.

          • Tx10inch

            This had the exact opposite effect on me. My interest decreased even more.

            Ah yes, this method of his is referred to as “On tha surface psych 101 Bullsh*t” If used improperly, it will not achieve the desired results. Consult your doctor if you suffer from any unwanted side effects.

        • Hawaii

          I mean sure, if NO interest AT ALL is the case then, it doesn’t matter but if he was at your every whim and there was an slight ounce of interest in him and then he switches sh*t up that allows you to see a different side of him and he’s no longer your admirer…. things can suddenly change from your view of him. But there has to have been some possibly of liking dude initially. At least for some chicks this works. *shrug*

    • Justme (the guy)

      @BlackGirlWho Reads- Yep. Looks like you were reading “The Art of Seduction”. Many of you brothers that have been FZ’d need to check that book out. That way if you have a chick who you’ve put on the pedastal (normally a recipe for failure, a broken heart and a dry d*ck) you can make her fall deeply in love with you as punishment for trying to use you and play you like a eunich (sp.)

      ” We chicks hate to be ignored… especially by guys who puppy dogged us for months.”

      Of course you do. It’s human nature.

      • BlackGirlWhoReads

        Exactly! But it works both ways. Guys with no interest in a girl who used to be interested in the guy will suddenly find interest if a girl loses it… Was that confusing enough?

  • http://www.TeamHellaSwag.com dubs. @ TeamHellaSwag

    I’d just like to take a second to posit that girls who keep guys in the friend zone don’t do so because they’re malicious, but because they enjoyed being treated well. It breaks left thanks to be friendly, and there are less hurt feelings all around.

    • http://www.TeamHellaSwag.com dubs. @ TeamHellaSwag

      *less eggs.

    • http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=M5FR1LGsT7E TheAnti-Cool

      Then that would make them more selfish than malicious in my eyes. You keep a guy around cause he treats you well yet not well enough to make him your man?

      He could be spending that niceness on a woman that, you know, actually wants him.

      • IsOurChildrenLearning?

        The same argument is given about men who want FWB relationships. That they are just malicious and keep girls around because they’re good enough to sleep with but not good enough to become their girlfriend. She could be speading those legs for a man that actually wants to be with her.

        I think both arguments are somewhat valid BUT it is up to us to watch our own backs. People use people when they are allowed to, that’s the way the world works. If you offer it up (or play along) how am I in the wrong for accepting?

        • http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=M5FR1LGsT7E TheAnti-Cool

          I agree that people only do to you what you let them do to you.

          However, should you use a person just because you can?

          • IsOurChildrenLearning?

            I didn’t say that you should. I don’t think that it’s a good idea to use people. I just think it’s a great idea to protect yourself from being used (if possible).

        • http://www.twitter.com/makinghisstory Evan McAuthur Kane

          “…because they’re good enough to sleep with but not good enough to become their girlfriend.”

          this is like comparing apples to cacti.

          • IsOurChildrenLearning?

            I honestly don’t see how. In both cases one person is going along with the program in which both parties recieve benefit (friendship or sex) although they REALLY want more.

            I didn’t say the situations were EXACTLY the same, I said the arguments against them are the same.

            • http://www.twitter.com/makinghisstory Evan McAuthur Kane

              what i’m sayin’ is that being “good enough to sleep with” (the apple) only requires two things…desire and vagina. yes, there’s usually more consideration that goes into it…but i’m simplifying to drill the point.

              being “good enough” to be in a relationship (the catus) is much more nuanced, intricate and intimate…there’s a greater investment on every level and it can’t/shouldn’t be taken as lightly as eatin’ the apple.

              having intercourse is NOT “using” someone…EVEN if they want more. it’s a consensual act…and there’s no mutual obligation beyond it. so if/when you decide to “do it” in lieu of whatever romantic comedy you have playin’ in the theater of your mind…that’s the role you chose–don’t guilt-trip your co-star. “So now we in re-writes, right!?”

              • IsOurChildrenLearning?

                “that’s the role you chose–don’t guilt-trip your co-star.”

                That was my point.

              • Deeds

                that’s the role you chose–don’t guilt-trip your co-star.

                The guy that is doing boyfriend things but wants more is signing up for that role. He can say no too. So, in both scenarios you can’t guilt the co-star. Both parties that are being taken advantage of so to speak should get out of the situation.

              • qozmic

                E.M.K. … you might be my long lost brotha from another mother or somethin, main! I couldn’t have said this better myself.. and I say things pretty well.

        • http://verysmartbrothas.com The Champ

          “The same argument is given about men who want FWB relationships. That they are just malicious and keep girls around because they’re good enough to sleep with but not good enough to become their girlfriend. She could be speading those legs for a man that actually wants to be with her”

          so you’re saying that women can’t possibly encourage and enjoy these types of arrangements? asking because if so, it would contradict approximately 5896 comments that have been left here

          • IsOurChildrenLearning?

            No.

        • Please, No Photos

          “People use people when they are allowed to, that’s the way the world works. If you offer it up (or play along) how am I in the wrong for accepting?”

          Because you are a moral and selfless person who knows and cares about the negative consequences of your actions and how your actions might impact another human being; or, because you don’t believe that the Bible’s golden rule is a crock of sh*t.

      • WayUPThere

        Anti-Cool, if you keep this up you won’t need riot gear at all. I couldn’t have said that last line better mahself

      • TheRealestLeo

        Amen. I have no time or patience to treat a woman (that’s not the least bit interested in me) well just for the hell of it….

        • http://www.hotbiscuitsandgravy.com Bengemin Grehe

          “Yeah, I am pretty much evil with my Friend Zone. Especially since it takes so little for me to put a woman there.”

          Soo….okay.

          Let me get this straight. A woman, who could happen to be a very nice person, is not worth treating well as a person jus because she has no romantic interest in you?

          • bumilla

            mmmm, buttermilk biscuits and sausage gravy.

            i knew i hearted you for a reason!

            • http://www.hotbiscuitsandgravy.com Bengemin Grehe

              Heh heh, thanks. Biscuits and gravy, bebe.

          • TheRealestLeo

            I have no problem treating a woman well or being friends with them. I’m (generally) a nice person.

            What I do have a problem with is being friends with a woman BECAUSE I tried approaching her and she wasn’t interested. I will often rather not deal with a woman at all that has expressed a lack of interest in me versus continuing to be a gentleman and treating her well hoping things will change. I’m of the train of thought that once a woman says “No”, that’s THE END…..time to move on.

            • http://www.hotbiscuitsandgravy.com Bengemin Grehe

              Okay, so what if she jus wasn’t interested in you on a romantic level, but thought you were cool as a person and wanted to be friends…what then?

              • TheRealestLeo

                If this is all the result of me approaching her, then no bueno.

                Although I have yet to meet a woman that thought that much of me BUT only wanted to be friends out of the blue. Who really TELLS someone they’ve already been kicking it with “Let’s just be friends”? I’ve never had to ask someone to be my friend outside of Facebook. It’s just supposed to happen.

              • http://verysmartbrothas.com The Champ

                Okay, so what if she jus wasn’t interested in you on a romantic level, but thought you were cool as a person and wanted to be friends…what then?

                nah. becoming “friends” with a woman who has rejected your romantic intentions is a lose-lose proposition.

                • http://lizburr.com Liz

                  why is it a lose-lose proposition? is it because you think all women turn their male friends into man slaves? or is it because men can’t handle being friends with women who reject them romantically?

                  the comments and this post are really…sad lol. i need a new blog to hang out at. yall are depressing.

                  • http://verysmartbrothas.com The Champ

                    liz, would you want to be friends with a guy who you were very interested in/attracted to but that interest wasn’t reciprocated at all? you really want to stick around and see/hear about all the women he’s dating/sleeping with and why he can’t find a good woman? this wouldn’t make you the least bit bitter/upset/depressed/discouraged?

                    • http://lizburr.com Liz

                      I am already bitter/upset/discouraged, so what difference does it make?? lolllll.

                      If I valued this person’s friendship, then I am not gonna drop him like a bad habit just because he has a girlfriend or because he is not interested in me. Sure it might make me feel some kind of way about him but I’m not gonna lose his number over it.

                      if it really hurts to hear about his/her love interests, then as friends who have been through a round of rejection, what’s so difficult about being straight up and saying, hey it hurts to hear about all your one night stands, can you not give me all the details? i think that’s fair. if you can’t handle someone who rejected you moving on, then you have a set of other problems than friend zone issues.

                      Geez. you’re so inhumane champykins.

                    • http://www.hotbiscuitsandgravy.com Bengemin Grehe

                      I definitely agree with Liz here. Any dude like has some serious ego issues. Seriously, the amount of pride ya’ll are slinging.

                      It’s pretty ridiculous. And think about it, Champ, your feelings aren’t real anyway. They’re jus infatuation. Get over it, and if you can’t see her value as a friend, and only as a woman to pursue, then that is a personal problem that you have to face. But don’t impose that mentality on everyone else jus because you can’t get over yourself.

                  • TheRealestLeo

                    Because not only has the woman told him to his face that he’s not worthy of her romance, he (as a “friend”) now gets to hear her stories about the other dudes she’s chexing—who are apparently better than the dude she rejected. That’s like playing for the worst team in a sports league and every day at practice the coach is going on and on about how every other team in the league is better at ______ (insert quality here) than the sorry team is.

                    • http://lizburr.com Liz

                      yalls egos are either too fragile, or you know some trifling heartless women, or you assume we are all like that.

                      i cant imagine tellin a male friend the nitty gritty details of who i am dating and what im doing with them, if he has made sincere romantic advances on me *and* i have clearly rejected him. he may know im dating someone indirectly (maybe hes reading my twitter timeline or sumn, who knows), but im not confiding in him about my budding relationship with some other dude. that’s just mean and that woman is obviously playing games. now, if there was no obvious advance made or a clear rejection made, then dude brought the pain on himself. we have no control over that. get right or get left.

                      i see no issue with remaining friends and this, “we either f*ck or you’re dead to me” business sounds retarded. make better friendships, people.

                    • TheRealestLeo

                      I’ve had to endure women using me as their shoulder to lean on to tell me all about their jacked-up relationships. Back in college, I had a ‘friend’ (whom, by the way I was NEVER interested in and whom I NEVER approached in ANY capacity….I didn’t even find her attractive) call me at 8 AM one Saturday morning because she needed someone to go with her to Planned Parenthood because the condom broke during her previous nights’ chexcapades. And no, those chexcapades did NOT involve me. My first question to her: “Why aren’t you asking HIM to go with you?”

                      This is what I have/had to put up with…..SMH

                    • Orange Star Happy Hunting

                      Real friends ARE there for one another through thick and thin, to support, encourage, cheer on or up, impart wisdom, to listen etc..all without expectation of anything expect maybe the same in turn.
                      It is very possible to be friends first with folk where there is a mutual attraction and it’s known, matter fact I prefer it that way. Giving me your TRUE friendship first, goes a long way.

                    • Orange Star Happy Hunting

                      This was to add onto Liz’s comment

                    • Orange Star Happy Hunting

                      @ Breezy Taylor I understood your first comment and this one and I agree with both.

                    • http://lizburr.com Liz

                      @TheRealestLeo. Dude. Regardless of why she didn’t ask the dude to go with her, she was clearly asking you to go with her AS HER FRIEND because she needed some support. This is clear because you were never interested in her, yet yall were cool enough for her to reach out in her time of need.

                      People who have friends lean on their friends (regardless of gender) during the rough times in their life. It sounds like you didn’t wanna be bothered….and in turn sounds like you weren’t really as much of a friend as she thought you were. smh. i’m sure if she knew you truly didn’t care about her, or thought she was such a burden you had to ‘put up with’, she wouldn’t have called you for the support in the first place.

                      maybe you guys aren’t built to be friends with women even when you’re not interested in them sexually.

                    • TheRealestLeo

                      @ Liz

                      There’s more to this story. She actually just wanted the directions to the place, but since women are historically bad with directions, I ended up having to go there with her. Had mofos in PP looking at me like I was the one who went up in her raw. No. Bueno.

                      I don’t care how much she needed “support” that Saturday morning. Maybe she and Mandingo should have invested in condoms with better “support”. That right there is Boyfriend Duty, which I am not fond of pulling.

                      And we were supposedly such cool friends, but one particular evening (this was later on down the line), during a group discussion with some other friends about relationships and such, she decided to insult me and my lack of a love life….She asked me, and I kid you not, “TRL, have you ever considered rape?”

                      I’ma let that one sink in.

                    • http://lizburr.com Liz

                      @TRL…

                      The thing is, ASKING for directions to PP is NOT Boyfriend Duty lol. that’s FRIEND duty. “hey, im in trouble, could you help me out?” that’s all it sounded like, nothing more nothing less. but yet you took it upon yourself to take her, and then turn around and ur annoyed about it. either you were doing the right thing because youre her friend or not. sure she had a boyfriend, but obviously if she is on her way to PP and has to ask someone else for help, then obvi things aren’t on the up and up between them lol. it sounds like youre salty about doing it which is puzzling since you claim you arent attracted to her anyway.

                      i do (inconveniently) supportive things for male friends im not attracted to, because they’re my FRIENDS. Matter fact, one of them has been borderline broke/homeless off and on and i’ve always let him borrow money, or i let him come over and i cook for him, or he stays on my couch if he needs to. maybe i am going too far, but i do have concern about people i am friends with and give everything i can to help even when im struggling. maybe thats my fatal flaw, but with this friend I know we know we have each other’s back like that, so i’m not salty about it. sure these aren’t ideal situations, but im not sittin around bitter cuz this dude has other friends and/or possibly a gf that he could be leaning on instead of me. WHERE do they do this at??

                      if youre bitter about helping her out because she did something shady to you after the fact, thats one thing. but to complain about how a female friend leans on you for support (regardless of her having a boyfriend) sounds like you need to reevaluate what it means to be a friend to people. chalk it up to karma and keep it moving.

                    • TheRealestLeo

                      I actually had no problem with helping her out AT THAT TIME, but over the course of our friendship it became apparent that she didn’t take my relationship woes (which, as you might know already, I take quite seriously) as seriously as I did, yet we are supposed to be friends. She always seemed to have more jokes for me about my lack of play than helpful advice. I’m not cool with that.

                    • TheRealestLeo

                      I’m all for doing helpful things for people….but if suggesting rape is how I get repaid, call me Morton’s, cause I’m gonna be somewhat salty about the good deeds I did.

            • Shelby

              “I’m of the train of thought that once a woman says “No”, that’s THE END…..time to move on.”

              I think other women and Champ in this post have stated the fact that the friend zone is not [permanent  and unwavering, there are just as many men who’ve had numerous tasty-ass breakfasts made by women who previously saw them as “just a friend.”]

              If you are a gentleman, not just a donkey in gentleman’s clothing, you’re going to be nice regardless of where you’re placed, IMO.

              • TheRealestLeo

                True. But when you’re in a society and in a world where it takes more than just being a gentleman to succeed, you have to approach the game a little differently.

                And I’ll believe that the Friend Zone is indeed finite when I see it in person.

      • Justme (the guy)

        “Then that would make them more selfish than malicious in my eyes. You keep a guy around cause he treats you well yet not well enough to make him your man?

        He could be spending that niceness on a woman that, you know, actually wants him”

        EXACTLY! Who does anything to be malicious anyway? (in the dating world I mean)

    • Justme (the guy)

      @dubs- This may be true, but the effect is still a harsh one. Just like guys that do everything in their power to arrange “friends with benefits” scenarios don’t do it to be malicious. They do it to be….treated well ;)

  • Mz Under-Stood

    I have put men in the friendzon when they ach like sheep. Lol…but on the other hand I have been put on the “homegirl list” not because I was sweatin a dude but because he claimed I thought like a man and was mad cool but had too much going on to focus on a relationship… SMH…

    • Mz Under-Stood

      BTW: the guy that put me in that zone in no longer. I like to get what I want if I can’t then I move on because life is too short to waste time one games.

      • sunshyne84

        right on sista!

  • DQ

    I’ve never let anyone escape, and I’ve personally never escaped one. That ish has been a black hole in my experience. Once you’re in… you’re in.

    On occasion, what can get you out of it is a combination of time and desperation. But that’s kind of like satisfying your hunger by eating road kill… now matter how full you feel, you know you didn’t eat well.

    • spottieottiedarlin

      I don’t think letting one escape is out of desperation. I suppose it could be, but not in all cases. Sometimes your perspective changes.

      Sometimes said friend all of a sudden shows up looking like he’s been in the gym, smelling nice and a lot less pressed than he was before.

    • http://www.hotbiscuitsandgravy.com Bengemin Grehe

      Is there actually a need to escape being someone’s “friend”?

      • http://lizburr.com Liz

        This is why I brought up the whole point of this post being for people who are simply into baseless superficial relationships.

        Anyone who is trying to escape from being your friend period doesn’t deserve to have relations with you to begin with.

        • http://www.hotbiscuitsandgravy.com Bengemin Grehe

          Thank you, Liz.

        • Yoles

          +1

        • http://verysmartbrothas.com The Champ

          “Anyone who is trying to escape from being your friend period doesn’t deserve to have relations with you to begin with.”

          the term “friend” here is used loosely, though. but, even going by the strictest definition of the word friend, i don’t see the point in being friends with a person who has made you a romantic non-entity. because, if you’re friends — and we’re going by the strict definition again — she’s probably going to let you know about men she’s seeing/dating/sleeping with. so now this friend zoned guy has to hear all these tales about men that she, for whatever reason, has deemed more “worthy” than he is…and a constant diet of that will make a guy bitter.

          • http://lizburr.com Liz

            hmm. friend is def used loosely a lot in this post/thread.

            your point about the details of dating other men i guess makes sense except….even if i were dating several guys….why would i try to live under the pretense that i am only dating you? that just sounds dishonest. if it has been made known that you’re interested in me…sure I am not gonna give u every dirty detail about my love life, but I am not hiding that so and so is interested in me or that i went on a date last night with whatshisname. plus, i have female friends i dont sit around and tell every detail about who i am dating (yes, it’s true). i may say something if she asks about it (trust me, i hate having to report “NO IM NOT DATING ANYONE AT ALL” to numerous friends when this request is made) but I’m not asking for a guy to be my BFF–just a friend! somebody to do friendly things with. i have some friends i do certain things with (I have my church friends, my bar hopping friends, my web geek friends, my sorority friends, my undergrad/grad school friends, and lots of overlap in between), what is so difficult about a dude being in the friend rotation?

            • http://verysmartbrothas.com The Champ

              “your point about the details of dating other men i guess makes sense except….even if i were dating several guys….why would i try to live under the pretense that i am only dating you?”

              what does this have to do with the friend’s zone?

              • http://lizburr.com Liz

                i dunno ur the one who brought it up!

            • qozmic

              Liz… I think there is one very key fact you are not understanding about men:

              NO guy wants to be friends with a woman he really wants to sleep with. Not really. Not in the way you are describing friends. That’s so elemental that it doesn’t even warrant apologizing for… it’s just how we are wired.

              I realize I’m generalizing hugely… but that’s kinda the point of this blog, no?

              Champ is 100% right. If you didn’t make the cut … the LAST thing you want to hear, is ANYTHING to do with that woman and other men. If that means we have fragile egos… so be it. Women do too… on a whole RANGE of other issues. We don’t fault yal for that… we simply love you all collectively, and accept it.

              I suggest you do the same on this issue.

              • http://lizburr.com Liz

                ehh. not gonna accept it but i will acknowledge yalls fragile egos. it doesnt really matter in the end tho because im trying to pare down my male friendships anyway. too complicated (fragile egos and such, you understand).

        • Justme (the guy)

          @Liz- I get what you’re saying, but I think a lot of men escape the friend thing because they know how women’s minds work, and they know that it drastically decreases their chances of being more than a friend if a woman becomes too comfortable being their friend (even though we really do develop feelings that we would like to see lead to a relationship) for our attractive friends. The best way to start a relationship from our perspective is to f*ck first and ask questions (or become friends) later. Otherwise we’ll be stuck listening to how the guy you really want is such a jerk, but is so attractive, and that’s beyond cruel and unusual punishment.

      • spottieottiedarlin

        Is there a need to? Nope, but there’s sometimes a ‘want’ to. Platonic relationships are great, but if one party has feelings strong enough for the other person they’re usually not comfortable just being that person’s friend and going through the motions knowing they want to be to explore the relationship’s romantic potential. That’s understandable, too.

        • http://www.hotbiscuitsandgravy.com Bengemin Grehe

          Hmmm, thas interesting. Please, define “feelings strong enough”.

          How can you develop strong romantic feelings without even experiencing a relationship in which mutual feelings can develop?

          Sounds a lot more like attraction. Better yet, infatuation. And uhh, last I checked, infatuation doesn’t equate to true strong feelings. Now how I see it anyway, but maybe thas jus me.

          • nickalee

            on pretty much everything you’ve said today.. i agree

          • spottieottiedarlin

            @Ben

            You can most definitely develop strong feelings in a ‘platonic’ relationship with someone of the opposite sex even if you have not made those feelings known, or if those feelings are not mutual. I don’t mean a crush or attraction/infatuation…I mean feelings. How can you develop such feelings from a friendship you ask…well isn’t the base of a good romantic relationship a good friendship anyway? With that in mind it’s possible for feelings to gradually progress over time into something quite substantial.

      • DQ

        Ok, I didn’t read all of the thread below but let me make a distinction here. Friendship and Friendzone are not the same thing. They overlap in some areas, but why are we concluding they are the same? That if I want to escape one I necessarily am trying to escape the other.

        You don’t have to be good friends with someone to be placed in the “friend zone”. All that’s required (IMO) is that they aren’t interested in dating you. Friendzone tends to be applied permanently more often with people who are your friends (because there is no mystery to unfold, they know who you are pretty much, and there’s no intrigue to draw them in) but you can be a relatively new face to the scene and still get “friend zoned” without actually being a close friend.

        I absolutely can be friends with someone who has me in a friendzone, but if we are not going to interact on a “romantic level” I’m not going to take on the roles and responsibilities, nor give the perks that go with being involved on a romantic level. There is nothing inconsistent about this stance (to my mind’s eye)

  • Andi

    I feel like I must be different from most women in this regard. The trend seems to be turning friend-zoned friend into an unwitting man-slave. I have some great guy-friends. I adore them all, but if I began to suspect one of them was attracted to me (and subsequently trying to get at me) – I would be more ghost than Christmas Past.

    Maybe this is odd, but when I’m around a male friend who likes me and I am not AT ALL interested in him, I find it difficult to be my delightful self. One might say that I’m a little bit… mean :( I guess I feel like I’m not allowed to be nice since it might give him the wrong idea. And perhaps I also feel defensive like, “I was perfectly enjoying being friends with you, why did you have to ruin it?!?” Thus, doing hateful friend zone things like dragging him to Ikea don’t really fit with my MO.

    My way is clearly not any better though, I hate being a jerk. Maybe I should take a cue from my sistas and call him over to build my new book shelf….

    • http://www.twitter.com/makinghisstory Evan McAuthur Kane

      i’ll bring my own tools…;) then read to you. and that’s at least 51% true…hi andi.

      • Andi

        *giggles*

        Hi Evan…

        You weren’t causing too much of a ruckus in my absence were you?

        • http://www.twitter.com/makinghisstory Evan McAuthur Kane

          uhmmm, no–no dear (wit’ yo’ “delightful self”)…not at all. but-er-uh don’t read yesterdays post…there’s a PTSD hologram effect on one of the images. i think liz is workin’ on a fix…but who knows how long that’ll take!? days at least…maybe weeks. lol

          • Andi

            “see what i did there!? that was fun–kinda like foreplay…;)”

            mmmmhm *Sonic toe tap*

            “relationships (especially for women) are like golf…no matter who is on the leader board you are ONLY competing against TWO things: the course and yourSELF.”

            This is wisdom though…

            • http://www.twitter.com/makinghisstory Evan McAuthur Kane

              well i was sonic toe-tappin’ wonderin’ where you were…;) so rest your feet darlin’…you’ve got nothin’ to worry about. plus that was mild…she ain’t even catch-it. lol

              speakin’ of sonic and friend zones…let’s not ever let it get this bad.
              http://uncyclopedia.wikia.com/wiki/File:SonicAmy.jpg

              • Andi

                I literally laughed at this for 5 minutes!!!

                Deal :)

                • http://www.twitter.com/makinghisstory Evan McAuthur Kane

                  [deposits another 5 min. of laughter into andi's account...and a smile.]

              • http://www.pinchmycheekie.wordpress.com Cheekie

                AHAHAHAHAHA!

              • mochazina

                iGuffawed

    • http://lizburr.com Liz

      You know what I think the problem is?For the most part men will prolly f*ck any of their female friends if they had the chance and she didn’t look like the boogey monster. Women are not the same in this regard. Thus, i think men can’t handle being platonic friends for some reason because it’s some sort of underhanded rejection (how dare you not wanna sleep with me?). It’s not that we’re treating them like slaves it’s just they’re annoyed we ain’t trynna hit or something. wtf.

      I dunno. just a theory. could be me projecting. I do know that of the male friends I do have, i don’t treat them like man slaves….esp when I know good and well i could use one (i have a curtain rod that needs to be hung in my bedroom). The platonic male friends i do have would have NO PROBLEM tryin to check me if I were to pull this on them too (one of them did this one time and I almost died cuz it was soo not intentional).

      • sunshyne84

        Why can’t a good friend just hang the rod though? What’s the point of being friends if I can’t get you to do a favor every once in awhile?

        • Caballeroso

          If it’s a recriprocal relationship, then I agree. If it’s one-sided, as in she only calls on his friendship when she needs something or when her cut buddy won’t do it, then it’s an issue.

        • qozmic

          Because inevitably it becomes one-sided…. Why? Because the only real ‘favor’ you can do for HIM that he really cares about is…the one thing that defines your relationship by NOT doing it.

          What non-sexual favors do you do for your platonic male friends?… How often does that happen?

          I thought so….

    • http://www.hotbiscuitsandgravy.com Bengemin Grehe

      Thank you, thank you, thank you. Please don’t change. I’m going to pretend you didn’t write those last two sentences.

      • Andi

        LOL! But is it really better to be Miss Meanie?? There has to be a happy medium here.

        • http://www.hotbiscuitsandgravy.com Bengemin Grehe

          Is it ever better to lead someone on? I think you can find your happy medium, after you make it clear there is nothing beyond friendship. Then, get ghost if you have to. Let them move on. If they do, you can be cool again.

    • bumilla

      I find it difficult to be my delightful self. One might say that I’m a little bit… mean.

      IAWTC. but then they think i am being “sassy” and i just have to cut them off eventually. i got pannies. you will never see them. thanks and godbless.

      what happened to being friends? i mean really? oh wait- pointy parts. >___<

      • Andi

        “what happened to being friends? i mean really? oh wait- pointy parts. >___<"

        I think most men don't actually want friends with vaginas. Which is a shame because there is a lot of perspective to gained by having friends of the opposite gender.

        Sometimes I just need some testosterone in my life. Too much female energy can be overwhelming. =/

        • http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=M5FR1LGsT7E TheAnti-Cool

          I actually prefer hanging with guys over girls. They’re usually much more chill and less likely to be on petty bullshyt in my experience.

          Plus I think more like a guy when it comes to the big things (sex, relationships) and this gets me a side-eye from many chicks cause I don’t really do “chick-logic”.

          • http://www.twitter.com/makinghisstory Evan McAuthur Kane

            my exes (damn near all of ‘em) have all said that i’m the best friend a girl could have…EXCEPT that i have a pen–uhmmm, “pointy part.” but the exception is also an awesome asset…and i think some “friendships” genuinely do benefit from regularly scheduled horizontal therapy sessions.

          • qozmic

            I totally understand what you mean.. I have some VERY cool chick friends exactly like you. Unfortunately, the only ones that last are the ones who I’m not attracted to. The others…well, we either make the beast with two backs and it ruins that cool vibe… or we don’t (read: she ain’t widdit), and the interests is lost on my end, because the vibe is clouded by the fact that I want that from her.

            Not saying it’s right… it just is what it is.

            • Justme (the guy)

              Why is it that so many people act like a man and woman can’t be friends and still have sex from time to time? I’ve done it (with a chick i was VERY VERY COOL/CLOSE with) and it really doesn’t mess up the friendship…then again at times it got weird when one of us was in a sexual mood (read me) and the other wasn’t. Even still we had honest and regular communication enough to talk that sht out and be chillin again the next week…(shrugs again)

              • http://lizburr.com Liz

                people act like it can’t happen because most people believe women catch feelings behind FWB situations. it’s the female tragic flaw.

        • qozmic

          Almost true… We don’t want friends with vaginas THAT WE WANNA BE IN. The ones we DON’T care to be in… yeah, those female friends ROCK! They tell you all kinda cool *ish* about the triflin heffas that you actually are trying to smash. Sometimes even how to get them… I’ve learned a ridiculous amount from my very smart, but not somebody I’m attracted to female friends…. I constantly learn from them.

    • Amazonian Midget

      Everything you just wrote. Everything. Explains me perfectly.

      sidenote…how do you add an avatar?

      • Caballeroso

        Go to gravatar.com. Upload a photo using the email address that you post with.

    • Siobhan

      I feel the same way, and am very uncomfortable if I feel someone I see as a friend is looking at me as a possible something more. Then I feel like I have to push them away, whether it means hanging out less or being overly sibling-like to make sure it doesn’t go there.

      I’ve seen too many friendships ruined by declarations of love that the person should’ve known wouldn’t be reciprocated. I kind of blame it on movies, making people think you just have to tell a person. If they’re really your friend, don’t you have a decent idea of what the response is gonna be?

  • FormerlyImperfect

    My high school best friend is the father of my son.
    All throughout highschool and years following, he was tryin to get in my panties. I never saw him like that. Always thought of him as a brother. Told him everything. EVERYTHING. There are things he knows about me that no one else knows. I would let him take me out. Agree to spend the night and sleep on his couch. He was deep in the friend zone…
    I don’t know what happened honestly. One night he invited me over, we watched ‘Knocked Up’ and I got “knocked up”. No alcohol. I think I drank water. No joke

    • http://www.awesomelyluvvie.com Luvvie

      “My high school best friend is the father of my son.”

      I feel like this has been the premise of some bad movie starring Morris Chestnut and Monica Calhoun.

      • http://iamyourpeople.com I Am Your People

        …screenplay co-written by Tyler Perry and Tyrese.

        • IsOurChildrenLearning?

          I would love to see the f**ked up grammar and wayward dialogue on that screenplay.

        • http://www.awesomelyluvvie.com Luvvie

          With a cameo by Clifton Powell. Cuz you know he gotta be in EVERY black production of anything. Could be a stage play, movie or car wash. Clifton gon be there.

          • TheRealestLeo

            LOL

          • http://naturallyalise.com/blog/ Naturally Alise

            soundtrack by Keyshia Cole and Tank

          • http://twitter.com/eazylittle Eazy

            Also featuring Loretta Divine as the loving, religious momma

            • ncvirgogal

              Add Megan Good in the mix for some boring, predictable eye candy character and you’re set!

          • http://www.pinchmycheekie.wordpress.com Cheekie

            Jenifer Lewis GOTTA be in there.

      • FormerlyImperfect

        Yeah…minus the obligatory “happy” ending. No pun.

    • Hawaii

      You ladies are a mess ;) This comment section is damn hilarious!