How To Avoid Politically Explosive Discussions This Thanksgiving » VSB

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How To Avoid Politically Explosive Discussions This Thanksgiving

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Can you believe it? Thanksgiving is right around the corner. Look, I believe in miracles, magic, and that I can fly (with proper accessories, natch), but if you had asked me three months ago if I believed Thanksgiving would creep on a come up this fast, I’d have been like, “nah.”

Word, booty.

Just a few short months ago, I lived in a world where this whole Donald Trump caper wasn’t a plausible thing, but today, well, you already know how that one ends. This is going to make Thanksgiving very, very interesting for many of us. See, Thanksgiving is that time when most of us in this here nation, gather up with family and ignore how this whole shit even started and spread love (it’s the Brooklyn way) and talk shit. We eat ham, turkey ham, or turkey, and various assorted foodstuff dishes and only one person, veteran savant kitcheneer, Big Mama, gets to make the potato salad. Maybe you don’t call her Big Mama. Maybe your Big Mama passed on and Next-In-Line was required to make it, either way, nobody is bringing the suspect potato salad to Thanksgiving. And if somebody does, well, I feel sorry for your mother.

I digress.

Where was I? Ah, yes. Talking shit. Thanksgiving is a time where arm-chair politicians, conspiracy theorists, and reasonable individuals all get their say while watching football, sipping the finest of brown liquors, and trying to avoid a two-days long itis/food coma combo. What this means is that, given the current mood of the country, politics, and especially the election of Donald Trump will come up. This is where you will find out that at least one, and likely, more than one person in your family voted for him. And they will have reasons. Reasons that may make give you agita. Or maybe you’re the person who agrees. The possibilities are endless. Thanksgiving has been the site of many family fights (funerals, oddly, are a close second), and early departures due to family discussions.

Well, I’m here to tell you how to avoid political discussions with family during Thanksgiving, if you’re so inclined. Perhaps you are looking forward to debating with your auntie’s new boyfriend who thinks those Clintons can’t be trusted and voted for Trump and wants to Make America Great Again. Maybe you like slamming your toe in doors. Hey, man, I’m not here to judge. Do you, boo boo.

But for the rest of us, we aren’t looking forward to those convos, debates, or arguments and would just like to watch my team (Redskins) lose to the Cowboys in peace while listening to folks talk about that time when Grandma did that thing at the place.

The shenanigans, fam. The shenanigans.

(Also keep in mind, the convo is unavoidable. Just because you attempt to stop it doesn’t mean it will not happen. It’s going to happen. It’s the happening.)

1. Just avoid it altogether.

People who voted for Trump and then tell you about it are typically trying to make a point. Or gloat. So don’t let them. If they start it up, don’t respond. If they jump in after somebody else said that it’s unbelievable that Hillary “lost to that imbecile”, they are allowed one chime in, but after that, if you engage, it’s on you. So don’t. Change the subject.

Them: “Trump is going to be a better president than Obama!”

You: “Soul music is…life!”

Them: “Hillary is evil and at least we know Trump didn’t steal secrets on her server and sell them to Drake in the Battle of Summer Sixteen with Meek Mill.”

You: “I prefer Craig Mack.”

You can really go any direction you want as long as it ain’t towards Defenseville.

2. Loud talk them and go crazy.

You might think that a person who votes for Trump is nuts. You might not be wrong. And since there is really no reasoning with a crazy person, your only recourse, really, is to match crazy for crazy.

“Trump will be the best president ever.”

“I will kill you with your eyeballs and choke you with a garter that I take off a snake that’s slithering on the sly…after the hurricane. I’m the real don dada. You will die.”

“What?”

“DIE NIGGER DIE WITH THE RAPTURE OF THE SOULS OF MICHIEF IN 1993 BITCH. SOMEBODY CALL MR. DOBALINA BECAUSE IT’S ABOUT TO GO DOWN OVER HERE. MY MACHETE, CLETUS. MY MACHETE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!”

Nobody will want to talk to you after that and may suggest an intervention, but at least you for the moment you can just mind your business, that’s all. Just mind your business.

3. Punch them dead in the mouth or square in the jaw.

Look, I can’t actively advocate for violence. That’s uncouth. And a brotha like myself is couth 60 percent of the time every time. But sometimes an argument is unavoidable and the only way to get out of it is to punch somebody dead in their mouth, then sit back down and eat your pumpkin pie like nothing happened. It happens. And it works. For one, as long as you do it without saying any words, nobody will know what to do or what to make of you aside from, “Junior is crazy.” Sure you’ll go down in family lore as the one who punched Uncle Junior, Jr. in the mouth, but it was either that or listen to an hours long argument about Trump versus Clinton and nobody wins in that scenario.

Also, if it happens to be Aunt Sadie MaePearl who is jawjacking, please refrain from putting your hands on her. She’s old and entitled to inflammatory rhetoric and remarks. She alleges that she marched with King so she’s got a right to be hostile. Also, I’m sure punching an elderly woman is a crime punishable by jail in every state. Don’t do it.

Crime. Bad.

4. Break out into an impromptu #MannequinChallenge

Extra points if you already have the Rae Sremmurd song, “Black Beatles” queued up on your phone, ya know, just in case. Nobody can argue with a mannequin.

5. Leave.

The only option that’s 100 fail-proof. It’s political abstinence at its finest. And besides, you know there will be leftovers on Black Friday, anyway. Sneak back over early, get you a plate then go on about your life listening to that new Common coaster, the 56 minute version of “Glory”, Black America Again. And while walking out, yell, “thank you for your service…we got it from here” to everybody in general and nobody in particular.

Panama Jackson

Panama Jackson is pretty fly (and gorgeous) for a light guy. He used to ship his frito to Tito in the District, but shipping prices increased so he moved there to save money. He refuses to eat cocaine chicken. When he's not saving humanity with his words or making music with his mouth, you can find him at your mama's mama's house drinking her fine liquors. Most importantly, he believes the children are our future. You can hit him on his hitter at panamadjackson@gmail.com.

  • Cosmic_

    Panama… it may be truer for you that someone in your family voted for Trump than for me…
    IJS

    • panamajackson

      Possibly, but I’ve had a few convos recently with black folks that have voted for Trump. Emails. Facebook messages. I’m learning that I shouldn’t be surprised by this.

      • Cybil the Cat.

        Say that again. I had an instant headache when I found out one of my peeps voted for Trump and it does not affect me directly. But to tell the truth I am lowkey waiting to hear from our mutual relative that he has fallen victim to one of Trumps open policy on POC. That’s petty I know.

    • As a community, we don’t get off enough jokes about how Panama outed his mama as a Trump Supporter

      • panamajackson

        Do you know what’s truly funny, I still don’t actually know who my mother voted for because I haven’t asked. I’m assuming, but I really don’t know.

        • Junegirl627

          she may surprise you, but if she doesn’t let her know that trumps first decision as president is to name the guy that advocates humane ethnic cleansing as his lead strategist…. jussayin.

  • miss t-lee

    “Sneak back over early, get you a plate then go on about your life listening to that new Common coaster, the 56 minute version of “Glory”, Black America Again.”

    I only heard a few songs, and I can’t.

    As far as my families and Thanksgiving, we got hella other issues. I’m sure the election won’t even be a discussion.

    • panamajackson

      You don’t think it will come up at all?

      • miss t-lee

        If anything, it’ll be how were all disappointed that he won. My family is heavily democratic.

        • panamajackson

          You know what’s interesting. When my mother was sick, I had a chance to see most of my family for the first time in like, 15 years. Uncles I hadn’t seen in a while. They’re all white, Frech immigrants.

          We got bleeding heart liberals, conspiract theorists, Republicans…it was interesting. It was like watching a bad family reunion movie. Opinions were all over the place. At my Black family events, it often follows that similar path. There’s always one….in my family.

          • miss t-lee

            Ha! I have one cousin that I know of that is a Hotep, a few that don’t vote, or even get involved in politics, but otherwise, we’re all kinda on the same page.

  • Jennifer A. Valcin

    I’m the gay feminist cousin in a family of staunch religious conservatives, one of whom is a proud Trump supporter. I’m passing on Thanksgiving this year.

    • I would to….

    • I would too.

    • Diego Duarte

      Not advocating for murder here… but I imagine if you paraded around the house with one of those Carnival costumes from Rio de Janeiro, or anything which would make him uncomfortable, you might give him an aneurysm and be rid of him for good.

  • Sigma_Since 93

    Lace their dinner napkin with chloroform

    • panamajackson

      Crime. Bad.

      • Sigma_Since 93

        Hit ’em with the napkin. Once they are asleep, put them on the couch. When they wake up, tell them dinner is over and drive home safely.

        Problem solved and you have more banana pudding

        • Darkchloe144

          “more banana pudding”
          #winning

  • Val

    “…and the only way to get out of it is to punch somebody dead in their mouth, then sit back down and eat your pumpkin pie like nothing happened.”

    Lol! PJ, you so crazy.

    • FeeFee

      Why do I love this meme. Is that the girl from the parkers?

      • Blueberry01

        Yeah.

    • Blueberry01

      ThClapback is starting early I see…

  • brothaskeeper

    All I know is, is that 3 Stacks always comes with the best guest verses. Always. If someone disputes that at the dinner table, I will jam a butterknife between their spread fingers.
    https://uploads.disquscdn.com/images/4fc4eaf441885eb6de225ebbd81e2aec35b99d1401bffec7c42a9d6fbd06083a.gif

  • Brooklyn_Bruin

    I’ve got (very) extended family in the South. If you let them loose on alternative lifestyles, messicans, how women need to be doing this…. You’d wonder why they don’t become registered republicans.

    These folks blacker than important documents in Crown Royal bags for safekeeping. Blacker than Newports and durags.

    But

    Patriarch of that side of the fam said some crazy stuff about how the black man can go far, if the White man leads him.

    No sweet potato pie is worth my sanity.

    Glad I’m out of state, and relations are generally strained.

    The other side of the fam been ready to burn down Babylon, so long as they can still get cheap BMW parts

    • Val

      Like I and a lot of other folks have said many times’ if the Republicans weren’t racist they’d have a large percentage of the Black vote. Black folks and older Black folks in particular are very conservative. So, your fam seems like the norm.

      • Brooklyn_Bruin

        I don’t think any of that racism and exclusionary thinking is normal. Or healthy.

        I do know it’s common..

        • Val

          Racism? You didn’t say they were racists.

          • Brooklyn_Bruin

            Going off on messicans is racism to me. I’ve heard it all from “my people”. Asians, Latinos, Mooslims, Africans, vegetarians… Every group gets it the same ignorant way.

            Point it out…be prepared to catch it.

            Family by marriage…

            • Val

              Gotcha. I missed the Mexicans part.

            • always right

              my grandmother was one of the most racist people against blacks that i had ever met. she always talked about how mexicans took better care of their kids. she was upset when obama was elected. i like to think that she was just old and cantakerous, but that’s who she was at the end. it was a sad story.

      • blueevey

        Hah! That’s what I’ve said abt mexicans (and latinx). The older and religious generations are conservative as all get out.

        It’s sad but not surprising that abt 30% of Hispanics voted for him.

  • ryan

    So now we shouldn’t even listen to another viewpoint? What has my country become?

    • Racist.

      • J Remy

        It’s always been racist.

      • ryan

        So me a Black man who voted for Jill Stein is racist?

        • pls

          She’s racist apparently, so you’re guilty by association.

          • Val

            Receipts?

            • pls

              Someone on twitter is trying to out her for Jill’s mistreatment of her during the campaign. can’t find the link

              • Val

                Seems like some pretty shaky info to go on.

            • pls

              *trying to out Jill for mistreating her

            • Yeah I need them too.

        • You asked about your country, sir.

          • ryan

            And as I said in the other thread I responded to about this there aren’t enough Hardcore racist or sexist in this country to cost Hillary the election. But if we keep silencing them by calling Trump voters that, the democrats will stay losing

            • That is the problem…it’s not a bunch of confederate flag waving hicks…it’s your liberal coworker who went in the booth voted against their own self interests for the sake of white supremacy and are now acting like they have no idea how he won

              • ryan

                But they didn’t win Trump the election.

                • Sure, Ryan.

                  • ryan

                    Then why did the same majority white counties that counties that Obama won in 2008 and 2012 flip to Trump? All of a sudden they woke up and became racist against a white woman after 8 years

                    https://www.washingtonpost.com/graphics/politics/2016-election/obama-trump-counties/

                    • That’s a decent point which is in danger of being lost. Many of Trump’s most vociferous supporters are racist. But many others aren’t or rather aren’t more racist than average. People who previously voted for Obama voted for Trump this time. The Democrats need to understand why so they can change policy,message and messenger. Not all of those people are unreachable.

                      http://www.nytimes.com/2016/11/13/us/politics/michigan-voters-donald-trump.html

                    • Hugh Akston

                      I reduce to accept “well some of the folks are not racists” argument

                      I guess the same argument goes for David duke smh


                    • “Chris Vitale, a longtime Chrysler employee and United Auto Workers member, supported Barack Obama twice, as did his union and his county. But on Tuesday, Mr. Vitale rejected the U.A.W.’s choice, Hillary Clinton, and voted with gusto for Mr. Trump.”

                      OK do you think that Chris Vitale suddenly became racist this year?
                      If he was racist all along then why did he vote for Obama twice?
                      Why was a black man able to get his vote but a white woman could not?

                      Vitale may well be racist. He may be stupid. I don’t know. What I do know is that Democrats failed to get his vote in 2016 after getting it in 2008 and 2012. And that’s the most important thing.

                    • Kas

                      From Vox.com. sorry for the length
                      Racial priming, and whites as an interest group
                      One question I’ve heard people ask since Clinton’s loss is how it can be about race if she lost states Obama won, and if Obama won more white voters than she did. This is not the puzzle many are making it out to be.

                      There’s a long and deep literature on racial priming that shows that when you make white voters think about their race, their political opinions shift right. As my colleague Dylan Matthews wrote:

                      Research by Harvard political scientist Ryan Enos suggests that when confronted with different racial groups, even liberal white voters turn rightward. In one study, Enos sent pairs of native Spanish-speaking Latino men to ride commuter trains in Boston, surveyed their fellow riders’ political views both before and after, and also surveyed riders on trains not used in the experiment as a control.

                      “The results were clear,” Enos wrote in a Washington Post op-ed. “After coming into contact, for just minutes each day, with two more Latinos than they would otherwise see or interact with, the riders, who were mostly white and liberal, were sharply more opposed to allowing more immigrants into the country and favored returning the children of illegal immigrants to their parents’ home country. It was a stark shift from their pre-experiment interviews, during which they expressed more neutral attitudes.”

                      Enos’s commuter train experiment is Trump’s electoral strategy in a nutshell.
                      Obama’s campaigns were studiously nonracial. In 2012, he and Mitt Romney both primed the electorate to think about businessmen versus workers, capital versus labor, makers versus takers. Obama won that election in part by making it about economic identity.

                      But Clinton, in part because she couldn’t rely on Obama’s natural connection to the nonwhite electorate, was much more explicit about the nature of her coalition, and the importance of fighting racial bias and white privilege in America. Donald Trump, for his part, made fears of the brown Other the centerpiece of his campaign from the day he launched his candidacy. And the fights over police shootings and the rise of Black Lives Matter created a surrounding hum of racial conflict.

                      We have a lot of evidence that reminding white people of rising racial diversity makes them more conservative in the moment. This campaign did that constantly.

                    • FeeFee

                      THANK YOU!!!! Somebody who finally gets it. THANK YOU!!!

                      Trump TAPPED INTO THIS, from the very first start of his campaign. The one solace of this campaign, Hillary lost to many CHOOSING to stay home and not voting at all, and other chose to protest by voting 3rd party. This was one of the lowest voter turn out in decades.

                    • ryan

                      And thats my point. why did these people stay home? because they were racist? sexist? or because they were fed up with both parties. I am not capeing for the republicans I want to fix what was once my party.

                    • FeeFee

                      “And thats my point. why did these people stay home? because they were racist? sexist? or because they were fed up with both parties”–This has been examined THOUROUGHLY in mainstream media. There is no one here disputing that people are fed up with BOTH parties on BOTH ends. No one.

                      “I am not capeing for the republicans I want to fix what was once my party.”–If you want to fix it, then STOP DENYING that many racist (overt & covert) are WELCOMED with open arms in the Republican party. Stop with the denial already. There is thorough history for when this happened and why.

                      But everytime black people talk about this, republicans like you continue to dismiss it, WHY? We can see with our very own eyes and ears, that they are indeed COURTED, this is not disputable. What you need to dispute is how you are able to IGNORE this, but have a problem with the rest of us that CAN’T.

                      And people already know that MOST Republicans are not your text book racist–much of it is ignorance, but yet and still The Republican party is a haven for racist (covert & overt). It’s one thing for YOU to ignore this aspect of the Republican party, but many of us CANNOT.

                      Democrats cover their racist up–they don’t court them and broad day ligtht. That’s litteraly the LEAST that the Republicans can do to win more minorities over. But there’s a theory as to why they haven’t and it’s because this may actually hurt them. They have been a haven for the Alt-right, Nationalist, and confederate flag waving, gun toting, don’t tread on me sticker members for far too long to turn back now. And Trump may have just put the final nail in the coffin of ever turning them away.

                      People are not stupid about the issues going on around as you may think they are. You are just uncorfomtable with this aspect of the Republican party and simply want the rest of us to and stop talking about it.

                    • ryan

                      I am not denying that there are racist. I am even agreeing that racist did not make up a significant portion on trumps base. what I am denying is that RACISM and/or SEXISM cost Hillary the election. I am saying is that is a narrative being pushed by one side in order to avoid looking at themselves, and if their is no push-back against that narrative, then when 2020 rolls around and the DNC hasn’t cleaned up their act, then prepare for President Trumps second turn. I am Saying that if we don’t tone down the hateful rhetoric and start seeking what makes us the same instead of what divides us, then WE the MAJORITY of the PEOPLE will stay losing, and it could eventually lead to widespread violence.

                    • Obama’s campaign’s were non-racial but the reaction to him was anything but. If the argument that not voting for a white woman over a white man when the voter has already voted twice for a black man means that the voter is racist then the term has lost all meaning.

                      You have former Obama voters telling people explicitly that they didn’t vote for Clinton for reasons a, b, c and we still want to say it was racism. No one would ever deny that Trump attracted racists. But they aren’t the reason Clinton lost. They aren’t the reason that the Democratic Party is almost extinct across the nation.

                    • Kas

                      Did you not read what I posted? Your response leads me me to believe no.

                    • I read it. I disagree. It happens…

                    • Kas

                      Indeed it does. I’m past the point of needing to win internet “discussions” so onwards and upwards.

                    • ryan

                      thank you? Thats the point I have been trying to make. She didn’t lose because the country is any more or less racist then it was in 2008 or 2012, She lost because of her and the DNC not being independent of one another. I mean 18 million people who voted, voted for neither Trump nor Hillary, because they felt that neither candidate spoke to them, I am one of them

                    • Janelle Doe

                      Isn’t it also a factor of people that stayed away from the polls or is the flipping really the main factor?

                      *side note I may not agree with you re voters and their reasons for voting.
                      But I do agree with you that our narrative needs to shift to 2018 and then 2020 or things won’t change electorally.

                    • ryan

                      I think that both played into it. Allot of people stayed at home, and enough in the midwest states flipped that she lost. Like I said while racism and sexism are a part of the story, they are not the main story, Hillary and the DNC are. But if the racism and sexism meme take off about this election, instead of the corruption and rot of the democratic party, then we can kiss 2018, 2020 and 2022 goodbye. see my other answer about how many legislative bodies the republicans control and you might begin to get the idea of what I am saying

                    • Cheech

                      See my up vote of Bruin above.

                    • FeeFee

                      No, but many as Cheech said, his racist rhetoric was not a deal breaker for these “non-racist” whites. The funny thing is, Trump could have pushed for all the stuff he did (building a wall to control immigration is not new concept), minus the racially offensive comments. I just don’t understand why that was impossible for the right to do.

                    • ryan

                      He did that to call the republicans bluff and build a base off of those right wing extremist

                    • FeeFee

                      Then what is your argument about? Everyone here has already said that “racist rhetoric” was not a deal breaker for MANY of those that voted for Trump now and Obama back then, while for those right-wing extremist that heard Trump bluffs, it was an invitation to come out come out whereever they were.

                      This is not that hard of a concept to grasp, so I don’t understand why people like you insist that black people should IGNORE this aspect of the election. That makes no sense.

                    • Val

                      Seems to me if you support a racist politician then you are then by definition a racist.

                    • Annalise Keating

                      “But many others aren’t or rather aren’t more racist than average.”

                      I am not sure why I find this part of his comment funny…. especially the aren’t more racist than average part…

                    • Val

                      Right, like is there an acceptable level of racism?

                    • I believe that many if not all white people have some level of racist bias. It would be difficult to grow up in this country without that. There is though a range of difference between someone who realizes that and attempts to challenge it, someone who doesn’t think about it (most people) and someone who positively seethes with racial hatred as soon as they get up in the morning.

                    • President Obama won a higher level of white working class voters than Clinton did.
                      Those voters were not all non-racist because they voted for Obama.

              • Janelle Doe

                And wonder why kids are crying in classrooms across the country

            • Brooklyn_Bruin

              It’s the softcore ones that have her the election.

              People for whom open racism is not a deal breaker.

              Donald actually reached out to “the blacks”.

              But when I saw him aim the guns at Muslims and Latinos, I wouldn’t roll with him if he was offering reparations in the form of cold hard cash, scotch, 1996 Chevy Impalas and video vixens (and himbos for those interested)

              • Right. People want to feel better by saying “I’m not racist,” but don’t look at their actions. You could never utter the N-word, flinch when you see a Hispanic, or utter a mumbling word, but your the soul of America showed something different.

              • Cheech

                This right here. “People for whom open racism is not a deal breaker.”

                Every Trump voter may not be a racist. But every single one of them decided that racism is not disqualifying in a President. (Or they’re dangerously naive and uninformed.)

                Every one of them had to decide, “I’m ok with a racist being president.” Every. Single. One.

                • Janelle Doe

                  Your second paragraph ftw!!!

            • DcLover

              Dear black man who voted for Jill Stein, allow to me ask what were your candidate’s position on the many pressing issues ( excluding tree hugging) that the country faces? You know ; a partial justice system that systematically denies blacks justice? state sanctioned police murders? income inequality? healthcare? immigration? taxes? infrastructure?
              Furthermore, I’d like to know what you were hoping to get, or better what message were you hoping to get across by voting for your kale-loving hero?

              • ryan

                So Hillary making 250 thousand dollars a speech (several of them) from goldman saks, and then was going to tackle income equality? We had a black man in office for * years who wouldn’t take on criminal justice reform, but now this white woman ( whose husband signed the bill which amped up prison production) is going to be our champion? And please tell me that you are TOTALLY satisfied with that Obamacare plan that combines the worst of capitalism and socialism (yes, Now I have to have insurance, but not one that actually reigns in the health care cost).

                And then that’s of course if she didn’t promise her donors (3 billion to her campaign, foundation, and company hmm I wonder if that means anything?) something the total opposite from her promises to her voters.

                • Hugh Akston

                  In other words you couldn’t answer the question

                  • ryan

                    I did, you just don’t want to see it. Jill Stein is a liberal (hint hint: so am I) Hillary Clinton is a corporate democrat

                    • Hugh Akston

                      Question : what’s your favorite color?
                      Answer: cheeseburger
                      That’s not the question

                      Welp I gave you an answer you just didn’t like it

                      Got it bob

                    • FeeFee

                      Lol! You summed it up perferctly.

                    • ryan

                      My bad http://www.jill2016.com/platform, sorry you couldn’t look that up yourself

    • panamajackson

      At Thanksgiving? Naw. We should all eat and kumbaya. We can get back to divisiveness within our families on that weekend.

      Also, its almost pointless at this point. Folks minds have been made up and I can’t imagine that anybody is giving you real wreck for voting for Jill Stein.

      • ryan

        My thing is I have been reading vsb for a couple of years now. I have enjoyed coming here for insightful articles about many and myriad subjects and enjoyed the comments section but never felt the need to participate until I saw the “I will Never underestimate white peoples need to preserve whiteness” article and darn near every article after that. the viewpoint in these articles basically saying that EVERY trump supporter is racist or idiots is naive and dangerous.

        • Brooklyn_Bruin

          I’ll agree with that, to an extent.

          It’s not like he find 62+ million Klan members.

          But a whole lot of them are okay with a person that stereotypes Muslims and Latinos.

          His racism is what put him in play. Obama and the birther nonsense, then build a wall, then keep the Muslims out.

          They heard that, and then said, “hold on a sec, Wait lets here this guy out.”

          • panamajackson

            Right. Sure not everybody is a racist. But if you condone racist behaviors, why is it on me to make sure I make you “the good kind” of Trump supporter. That’s asking a lot.

            • #FACTS

            • Cheech

              *Muhammad Ali snakes example*

            • Cleojonz

              ^^^ That’s it right there!!!

              “But if you condone racist behaviors, why is it on me to make sure I make you “the good kind” of Trump supporter.”

              This is the part they are not getting. Everyone saying we need to get over, it we lost, move on so we can just forget all the rhetoric that got us to this point in the first place? I have to be the one to figure out which ones simply cast ballot in their self interest and which ones are truly racist mofos? No thank you, just your vote says all I need to know.

          • Hugh Akston

            I’ve said that a couple yt associates recently who don’t bother greeting me anymore

            Like where the heck were you when he was spewing all of his crap? Oh that’s right it didn’t bother you one bit

            Yt folks don’t care they know what’s going on but simply try to deflect from reality

        • panamajackson

          You know what, you might be right. But condoning crazy kind of makes you crazy doesn’t it? And while I get you’d like to see #notAllSupporters or something, the fact is, if you voted for the man, and what his ideologies that her personally expressed stand for, you can’t blame others for the viewpoint that he specifically put out.

          Sure, folks voted for him for different reasons, but its a little hard to dissociate one simple view from the racist, xenophobic, outright distasteful rhetoric he spewed with reckless abandon. I don’t see how folks miss that point.

          IF he’s your guy, he’s your guy. Cool. But I can’t go outof my way to be like, if you voted for Trump and support racist rhetoric you’ve got problems. Nawl. If you voted for a person who actively goes down that rabbit hole, what makes you any different? Real question.

          • ryan

            I feel what you are saying, but what I am saying is that a good portion of the reason that she lost as that too many of us live in an information bubble that gives us news that we want to hear vs news that we should be hearing in order to make an informed decision. They reinforce simple narratives and tighten our viewpoint to the point that any dissenting opinion is treated as heresy, and subject to scorn and ridicule.

            That does not lead to a healthy society, with open dbate and respect for each other, that leads to a hardening of positions and a ratcheting up of open hostility, which these last few articles are helping that cause.

            • DcLover

              Somebody is looking for validation. *Barf*

              • ryan

                No I am hoping to change the narrative on this loss so that the democrats don’t lose because we need at LEAST two viable parties in order to function as a nation. That means reaching out instead of dismissing them. Right now republicans control 24 states outright ( all branches of government) vs the democrats 6, 31 governorships vs 18 democrats (1 independent), 68 out of 99 state legislative houses and both chambers of congress , in a country that in every election since 88 (04 being the exception) democrats win the popular vote in the one true national election (President) Why is that? darn sure ain’t just “racism”

            • Mochagirl73

              And so when Trump makes these statements we were all misinformed? Lead by a false narrative?

              You are a classic apologist.

              “When Mexico sends its people, they’re not sending the best.
              They’re not sending you, they’re sending people that have lots of
              problems and they’re bringing those problems with us. They’re bringing
              drugs. They’re bring crime. They’re rapists… And some, I assume, are
              good people.”

              “Our great African-American President hasn’t exactly had a
              positive impact on the thugs who are so happily and openly destroying
              Baltimore.”

              “I’ve said if Ivanka weren’t my daughter, perhaps I’d be dating her.”

              “Grab’em by the p$%&”

              • ryan

                And you’re so sure they voted for Trump because of those things instead of despite?

                • TheUnsungStoryteller

                  You didn’t catch anything Panama wrote did you?

                  • ryan

                    every word. have you read everything I have said in this discussion?

                • Janelle Doe

                  Do you think that perhaps the *despite is part of the perspective of the views expressed here? Like how can people have just sidestepped around those things?

                  • ryan

                    Because for most of them they don’t affect them, they affect us. the thing is it was not racism that did her in. it was her and the dnc

                    • Janelle Doe

                      Oh ok. Btw WHAT is the dnc game plan going forward? Haven’t heard a word about that (yet)

                    • ryan

                      That’s the problem. The DNC doesn’t have a viable game plan. Some of us want to purify it and wash out the Clinton machine.

                    • Janelle Doe

                      Well, let’s see what VSB (or other posts) are coming up in the near future. It’d be nice to talk about that after our collective grief period is over. Something’s gotta give between the supporters of Bernie, Hillary and all the *others.
                      We have a lot to contend with over the next few years and in planning for the mid-terms.

                    • ryan

                      that is all I want. Instead of playing the blame game with simplistic arguments about this election showing us how racist the country is, we need to seriously identify the problem and have adult discussions of how to come up with a plan to correct them.

        • Cheech

          I’m gonna tweak that just a little bit. EVERY Trump supporter is either racist, idiot, or naive. And they’re all dangerous.

          (“Some of the above” and ” all of the above” are also options.)

          • nillalatte

            Man, cognitive dissonance as never been so prevalent. smdh

          • ryan

            I am going to post something I wrote earlier in case you didn’t see it…

            “No I am hoping to change the narrative on this loss so that the
            democrats don’t lose because we need at LEAST two viable parties in
            order to function as a nation. That means reaching out instead of
            dismissing them. Right now republicans control 24 states outright ( all
            branches of government) vs the democrats 6, 31 governorships vs 18
            democrats (1 independent), 68 out of 99 state legislative houses and
            both chambers of congress , in a country that in every election since 88
            (04 being the exception) democrats win the popular vote in the one true
            national election (President) Why is that? darn sure ain’t just
            “racism””

        • Blueberry01

          “”I will Never underestimate white peoples need to preserve whiteness” article and darn near every article after that. the viewpoint in these articles basically saying that EVERY trump supporter is racist or idiots is naive and dangerous.”

          …and, your point is….

      • People were catching feelings about Jill Stein supporters.. See Dustin’s thread.. lol

    • There’s a big difference between conversations regarding negotiable differences on policy and trying to entertain discussions with people who have diametrically opposed belief systems.

      • ryan

        Outside of social issues tell me where do the democrats and republicans differ? and not rhetoric but actions?

        • you say that social issues are minor things.

          • ryan

            No, I am saying they are distractions. Especially on the national level.

            • Distraction? He literally appointed a White Nationalist to his cabinet

              • Cheech

                Plus a million.

              • Janelle Doe

                And let’s not forget me stop and frisk

              • ryan

                Yes and when we have a FEDERAL police force to enforce a FEDERAL stop and frisk policy, then I will sweat, until then I will just worry about my local police

                • Annalise Keating

                  Bro, I believe Stop and frisk has been operating on a national level for a minute now. They just didn’t give it a name and make it an official policy like New York did

                  • ryan

                    Still local matters. but let be real. name me one social issue that the democrats have championed in the past 30 years exclusively to help us? I can remember ones for lbgt, and hipanics, and even the jewish people. ever hear of the concept of benign neglect

                • Cheech

                  You’re not worried about the DOJ that used to oversee the worst of the worst local depts, and will now look the other way? (While continuing to give them free SWAT and paramilitary gear and no training?)

                  • ryan

                    right because the Obama administration stopped those sales? and hisn DOJ reports really stopped the shooting of unarmed blacks with their stern reports and…? these things should be organized and handled locally. the economy, the defense, the environment, (things that hillary had no discernible difference with the republicans on) are things that matter nationally

              • Cybil the Cat.

                Do not use that description, apparently that is causing divisions.s/

                • Cheech

                  Smgdmfh

                  • Cybil the Cat.

                    Heheheh

                  • grownandsexy2

                    LOL!

    • Val

      So supporting racism is a valid viewpoint that deserves listening to?

      • ryan

        No. but opening a dialogue with them is. I have been all over this country and have met people from all walks of life. I have had white people with confederate flags emblazoned all over their vehicles help me out, and I have had so called white liberals say some horrible things when they thought they weren’t being listened to. I had to learn the hard way in life to not make assumptions

        • Val

          Individual encounters with racists is not the issue. I mean, who cares if they’re nice to you when they’re simultaneously supporting a White Supremacist system.

          • ryan

            My point was the guy with the confederate flag… yeah he wasn’t racist, but before he opened his mouth I ASSUMED he was. Then we talked, and I found out we had more in common then we had differences

            • Val

              He wasn’t? Lol That flag says he was, but okay.

            • Annalise Keating

              How is he not racist with a confederate flag? How did he rationalize that? I am not attacking. Just curious…

              • ryan

                He said it was about southern pride and heritage, I pointed out that a few things about that, never got heated, just.. interesting

                • Val

                  Are you trolling us or are you being serious right now. Because that’s what they all say.

                  • ryan

                    Dead serious. I used to be like “white people are racist” or ” the white man is trying to keep us down” when I was younger. And while I am not denying racism exists in people (including some of my own bigoted thoughts) and definitely not in institutions ( cause we know they do), what I am saying that not all white people are racist, not all Trump supporters are racist, and to assume otherwise is to be as close minded if not more than you proclaim them to be

                  • TheUnsungStoryteller

                    He cannot be serious…maybe he’s the real live version of that one Dave Chappelle character who was blind….?

                    • Annalise Keating

                      The blind black white supremacist-Clayton bigsby!!! That sketch was hilarious…..

                • Annalise Keating

                  I have heard this argument too many times. But correct me if I am wrong the flag was created to represent their attempted secession. A secession they wanted because they wanted to continue slavery. A practice that was justified based on the ideology that white are superior because they are white. Blacks are inferior because they are black and should not be free.

                  • ryan

                    I don’t care what a person wears or displays, just how they treat me. Treat me like a man and you will get the same in return. I didn’t say we became facebook friends, or that he never uttered the N-word, Just that we got along

                    • Annalise Keating

                      I don’t care what a person wears or displays either. But saying the N word is not a requirement for someone to be racist. In fact most racists I have met are very polite. Seemingly nice even. The problem is that ideology that the confederate flag (he is displaying) is rooted in- that white folks are superior. It may seem meaningless until they refuse to give you a job because they don’t think your inferior black brain is capable of handling it, or they assume you got into your high level position or Ivy League school because of affirmative action that lowered the bar for your inferior self, or worse they think you have a gun and shoot you dead in street when you were only reaching for your wallet.

                    • ryan

                      Let me be clear, darn near since the beginning of this country, RACE, has been used to divide poor and middle class whites from poor and middle class blacks. we have more in common with them then we do with wealthy blacks, and until we recognize this on BOTH sides and stop fighting over petty bull and start talking to each other, We are all going to stay losing

                    • Annalise Keating

                      Unrelated question: are you biracial? Or dating a white/non black woman? Or are you a first or second generation American?

                      Not trying to offend. Just curious….

                    • ryan

                      Mama And daddy black, Girlfriend Black, can’t say where my ancestors are from (slavery) and am scared for my country

                    • Annalise Keating

                      Ok. Thanks for the info.

                    • -h.h.h.-

                      i agree with what you’re saying, and i too, see how folks are talking past each other.

                      i hope that there can be more productive conversations in the new year. i dont think it will happen now.

                • Cheech

                  Sounds like what the cop who murdered Sam Dubose said about the shirt he was wearing when he did it.

            • panamajackson

              I don’t know man. You realized that you had more in common, but did he have that same opinoin and take that back home and rethink his ideologies? You’re being open and that’s wonderful.

              I’m from the south, I grew up with folks who happily wore confederate flag shirts to class in high school and were on trucks. all that jazz. I’ve been in groups with those folks. And sure, on a one and one basis, all was cool. But that’s not really the problem. One on one isn’t ever the problem. it’s the ideologies that persist in policy making that folks vote for that folks are afraid of.

              I”m not sure how that part gets lost in all of this. I hear you, that “racist” man treated me with respect. We have a lot of those folks in the South. I went to high school in Alabama with a bunch of folks who were super cool but we could never got to their homes b/c their parents weren’t having it. Sure, everybody isn’t “the south shall rise again” and pitching burning crucifixes or running up on you and calling you an n-word (though that has happened), but there is still a lot of respect from afar in common spaces we’re required by law to occupy together. those racist ideologies flourish at home.

              • ryan

                I am from the south also But funny enough I didn’t experience out and out racism (somebody calling me the N word) until I traveled to the north-east and mid-west (Institutional racism on the other hand, that be er where). See I used to ride trucks over the road, And when you do that you tend to end up some of everywhere. Big cities, small little podunk towns, and everything in-between. and I would talk to people, Black, white, hispanic, native, young, old, gay, straight and what not. And in talking to them I realized that allot of them are worried nd fearful and angry about the same things and problems, we just differ in how to fix them, and really not by that much.

                But the problem is that the people you see on t,v, and in the magazines represent the extreme ends on both sides, and by association everybody gets lumped together with those extremists, so we the poor and middle class are to busy arguing with one another while the rich laugh and get richer.

                Like for instance do you know why Trump is so dangerous, because previous administrations on both sides concentrated power into the executive branches and left very few checks on the surveillance state. When bush was doing it (Patriot act, Nsa) the democrats howled while the republicans said its going to be okay. when obama came into office and expanded it (NDAA, claim to kill americans with no due process, NSA expansion) nary a peep from the democrats.

                If people keep treating it like team sports, and instead do their actual civic duty and have frank discussions about whats going on with AN OPEN MIND, then maybe we can move foward as a nation.

                • Cleojonz

                  I’m really trying to understand why you are trying so hard to push this idea that the onus is on us to extend an olive branch? Why is the burden on us to change minds and have open dialogue when so rarely does the other side make an effort in that way?

                  On a lighter note: I think some people take their team sports more seriously than they do this.

                  • ryan

                    No i am not putting the onus on us to extend the olive branch. I am saying that the onus is on us to not match hate with hate, and to recognize why the democrats lost besides the rhetoric that is being pushed by Clinton surrogates and the DNC.

                    • Mary

                      Some of it is timing: let everybody let off steam, check out the cabinet s lection, get through holidays and then look at this in January in terms of moving forward.

            • TheUnsungStoryteller

              Man…the KKK even tells people that they are not racists! Don’t fall for the bait. People are people, but objectively speaking, that is all kinds of problematic when you think of history

              • Cleojonz

                They sure do. “I’m not racist, I even have to serve/work with some of those people at my job, I just feel white is best blah blah blah.”

                • Cheech

                  I had a coworker tell me, “N***** just means azz hole. There’s white n*****s too.”

      • Annalise Keating

        It’s not that simple. There are some trump supporters (I am talking poc) who don’t really understand that some of the things he has said are racist. There are some folks who think all (Hilary, trump, Gary) of them are racist but his policies will benefit them more than Hilary. The list goes on and on.
        Don’t get me wrong, some are definitely racist or knowingly supporting racism. And I am not saying it’s right. Just saying how can we change a problem if we don’t truly understand the root cause?

        • Val

          “…who don’t really understand that some of the things he has said are racist.”

          Please explain how this would be possible.

          • Annalise Keating

            I have brought up the Mexicans are rapists and murderers comments to some folks who said he wasn’t talking about all Mexicans. He was just talking about illegal Mexicans who are committing those crimes. If they aren’t committing those crimes then he isn’t talking to them.
            Same logic to the Muslim comment. Where they say he is only talking about properly screening muslims trying to newly migrate to the US.
            And they are not offended by his comments on crime in black inner city communities. They think the crime rates are too high and they really want to see less crime in those communities.

            • Val

              Sounds like those folks were equivocating in order to try to justify them supporting a racist.

              But, to your point about not understanding a problem. Don’t we understand racism? Don;t we understand why people support it? It’s not complicated. So, what is to be gleaned from talking with these folks?

              • Annalise Keating

                As I mentioned I wasn’t talking about white folks. I was talking about POC. My personal experience (and not saying it represents all white folks just the ones I have met) is that they are incapable of either not supporting or believing in white supremacy. Even the “nice” and “woke” ones. So I don’t even bother explaining s*it to them.

                The problem I was referring to are POC who think trump is their friend/ally.

              • Kas

                People have some interesting definitions of what constitutes racism. My 3rd eye is now wide open.

                • Annalise Keating

                  This was my point upstream. And coincidentally @ryans comments downstream just happened to prove my point.

            • blueevey

              How about them chargers?

              • Annalise Keating

                ????

            • Negro Libre

              When it comes to politics, especially in America, people are always rationalizing their support. A lot of it has to do with the fact that facts and policy debates don’t occur. People are stuck speculating off quotes, gaffes and the handling of controversies to decide who they vote for

        • ryan

          and you will never understand the root cause if you don’t talk WITH them, not AT them

          • Moderate Democrat

            Forget it, seriously. The big glaring problems that no one here will acknowledge are two-fold:

            Hillary is no saint, not even close. She’s one of the worst people on the planet. Ask any Lybian.

            People here are incapable of yanking themselves out of the groupthink that they have. They can’t understand, and will never even entertain the idea that this country isn’t filled with racists. Even if Hillary won, they would still think that.

            There’s no changing anyone’s mind here. Time to move on.

            • Annalise Keating

              I am no fan of Hilary (and that’s me being nice)…but saying she is one of the worst people on the planet though….don’t you think that’s exaggerating just a little bit.

              Are you white?

              • Moderate Democrat

                What’s it matter?

                • Annalise Keating

                  It doesn’t matter…just curious because you implied that you don’t believe the country is full of racists. Or maybe I misinterpreted that…

                  • Moderate Democrat

                    I don’t believe the country is filled with racists. If it was, nobody here would be able to do what they do here every day.

              • FeeFee

                Girl he’s white. He’s been pushing this, no racist voted for Trump on another thread. The cognitive dissonance is rampant with this one.

                • Annalise Keating

                  I figured. Thanks for clarifying.

        • We know negros that cape for white folks all the time… See Samuel Jackson in Django…although fictional… we know those dummies existed.

          • Annalise Keating

            I see no lies here

  • It’s also rent a him season, ladies get those flyouts together so they can stop whispering about how they don’t think your roommate is really your roommate

    • Brooklyn_Bruin

      I’m available, we can work out an arrangement ladies. I’ll even shine up my gold fronts for your Pops

      • brothaskeeper

        Do some of these temp jobs become permament?

      • Valerie

        Hmmmmm

    • Valerie

      Flyouts are expensive.

      • Can’t put a price on love

        • Valerie

          Lol hush

      • :'(

        • Valerie

          They are lol

    • Why is it that women need a Him to take to the holidays while I can roll solo with no questions asked? That’s some BS

      • Blueberry01

        So, you’re acknowledging the double standard? Hmmm…I’m flattered.

        Would you like to take our menstruation period as well? I mean, since you’re being so understanding.

        • Sure! I don’t know how I’d take it, but I can let it rock. *kanyeshrug*

          • Blueberry01

            Lol!

            Did you see the clip of the men who experienced childbirth through a simulator?

    • Blueberry01

      Tristan, you STAY slaying me!

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