i’ve never met helena andrews, and i most likely never will.
but, after reading “successful, black, and lonely” and watching the corresponding video, i can say that i’ve known, dated, slept with, talked to, discussed, consoled, admonished, sympathized with, and theorized about her my entire adult life.
i also know that her washington post profile will probably spawn a nation-wide discussion about the perpetually single successful black female of the saks fifth serengeti, and that ms andrews and her upcoming memoir (“bitch is the new black”) will be dissected, debated, and dichotomized more times than drake’s appeal.
admittedly, i don’t know exactly why ms. andrews herself is single. her lonely lot could be due to anything from bad choices, bad luck, and bad timing to haughtiness, hopelessness, and halitosis. but, i’ve known enough of her doppelgangers to have a pretty good idea of a few things she might be able to do (or stop doing) to improve her fortune:
1. change
i know suggesting that someone change themselves to better their romantic circumstances isn’t the most politically correct thing to say, but i can’t continue to ignore the pink and green elephant with the “she’s (the helena doppelgangers) probably just not attractive enough to the men she’s most attracted to” sticker on his ass that always seems to show up when having this discussion. mind you, this isn’t suggesting that she’s (or any other helena doppelganger) unattractive or undesirable, just maybe not attractive or desirable enough to the type of guys she fancies.
having stringent standards is fine. you can’t tell another person what they should or shouldn’t be attracted to. but if the sticker on the elephant’s ass is true, you’re left with two options
a) wait and hope that one of those men will lower his standards and take a flyer on you
b) find out what kind of women those men are most attracted to and do your best to mimic them (basically do everything lil kim has done since 1996)
2. realize that our grass isn’t that much greener
a latent underlying theme in the successful but single young black woman discussion is that black men with similar “qualifications” have a much, much easier time navigating the dating and relationship game. since the ratio (and nature) is in our favor, we can apparently pick, choose, and discard indiscriminately while black women are passive subjects to our random whims.
while the numbers definitely do favor us, the only ones able to truly take advantage of this imbalance are those in the top 5 to 10% (who’d get what they wanted regardless of the ratio) or those trying to run through and rack up as many different women as possible. for the rest of us, the process of finding an available, attractive, and compatible mate can be just as baffling, confusing, frustrating, disheartening, and even occasionally depressing.
basically, this sh*t is hard as hell for all of us.
mind you, i’m not bringing this up to have a “your woes aren’t as bad as mine” battle with black women. but, knowing that your issue isn’t quite as unique as you think it is does wonders when trying to keep a positive outlook and limit the blame-gaming.
3. date out
to all the sistas who are deeply ambivalent about stepping out and trying “something old”, its really not that serious. if you’re lucky you’ll be on earth for approximately 80 years, and I’d hate for you to spend a good portion of that time sacrificing your own happiness for some romanticized technicolor racial loyalty.
do. you.
and don’t worry, you can bring him to the barbecue too. we’ll even make him a plate.
4. pay close attention to her
to expound: everybody has at least a couple women in their sphere of influence who are either happily married or seemingly never without multiple desirable suitors. sometimes these women aren’t nearly as attractive on paper as others in their group, but they somehow stay somewhat unaffected by the dating and mating issues plaguing their peers.
instead of clowning them for “losing their identity” and always choosing d*cks over chicks, pay attention to what they’re doing and how the hell they’re consistently able to produce “better” results i mean, if you wanted to be a millionaire you’d probably try to emulate other millionaires, right? how is this any different?
5. remember that you’re not entitled to sh*t
this is an especially hard concept to grasp (for women and men) because we’ve all been schooled that life is by and large an incentive laden meritocracy. if you work hard for four years, you’re (rightly) entitled to degree. if you do your job excessively well, you’re (rightly) entitled to a raise and (maybe) a promotion.
romance, on the other hand, doesn’t work that way. we’re all entitled to and deserving of a modicum of fairness and respect, but no one is entitled to be in a great relationship. its not supposed to happen. if it does? fine. if not, oh well. sh*t happens, and you’re probably not going to be getting any romantic entitlement refund checks in the mail
i know this sounds a bit discouraging, but realizing that you’re not entitled to romantic happiness has a funny way of fighting off the type of faulty (and self-defeating) mindset that could led to you saying something like this…
…and wondering why you’re having dating difficulty.
6. move
it always amuses me when women move to ultra-competitive, ultra-cutthroat, ultra superficial, and ultra cold-hearted cities and then are shocked when the dating game there is just as ultra-competitive, ultra-cutthroat, ultra-superficial, and ultra cold-hearted. not everyone is built to live in atlanta or new york or l.a. or d.c., and there’s nothing wrong with admitting that to yourself.
the sports guy bill simmons put it best:
“It’s crazy to me how many women have trouble finding a decent boyfriend, yet they’ll stay in the same city for 10 years. If you were fishing in one section of a river every day, and you never caught anything, would you keep returning to the exact same spot, or would you try your luck somewhere else?”
7. learn the difference between wanting to be in a relationship and being in love with the idea of being in a relationship
when talking to helena doppelgangers about their relationship difficulties, you usually get the sense that they want the perks of a serious coupling (a warm bed, a ring, a date to the company christmas party, an answer to the “why aren’t you dating?” question they’re asked every time their mom calls) but aren’t willing to make the sacrifices needed to get there. so, even if they happen to meet their prince idris, they wouldn’t be ready for it at all.
plus, relationship minded men (and women) have a tendency to be attracted and drawn to who’s actually down instead of who’s just looking for a suitable mate so they can finally cross it off of their to-do lists
usually this is where i’d end the entry with some snarky summary or concluding series of questions, but i have to say that reading and writing about helena andrews has produced a bit more ambivalence than i anticipated, and i’m not sure exactly how to wrap this up.
maybe my ambivalence is just me reaching the point of “why successful black women are single” discussion fatigue. maybe she reminds me of too many of my friends to just be cool with offering the type of unaffected didactic advice/criticism/snark i’m used to, or maybe the fact that i didn’t even acknowledge the possibly of a 10,000 pound “she’s single because we (black men) need to step our games up” elephant standing in the room says more than this 1,300 word entry.
who knows?
i do know that if “bitch is the new black“, “bitching about bitchy black women” is definitely the new crack, and i think its time for us to find a way to kick this addiction.
—the champ
A *newbie* and the first comment…
Damn, my day has just improved exponentially!
…ummm, let me go reread…
@Tenchi, welcome!!!!
@Tenchi, Welcome to your new addiction, enjoy yourself!!
@Just X, Addiction is right… My manager just asked me if we need to have a “come to Jesus” moment!- smh
@Tenchi,
welcome and sh*t
At lunch today, one of my friends argued in favor of dating non-black, upper middle class dudes with money who have no idea about hip hop relationship culture. There’s so much less dumb stuff for them to UNlearn. They also know to do chivalrous guy stuff as a matter of course.
@inHIcotton,
hmmm… OR because you actually stumble upon a tasty lookin’ piece of white chocolate… kinda robin thicke about the face & vocals. why not get a sample of that?
@inHIcotton, define “Hip-Hop relationship culture” and list a little of the “dumb stuff to unlearn.”
@Stuff Ghetto People Like,
Eff that define “They also know to do chivalrous guy stuff as a matter of course.”
@Dorian G.
Just another case of black people being as racist, condescending, and [didn't even want the following words to appear on strikethrough] as white people are towards black people. Do we really need to shyt on our own just to feel better?
@An Island,
And stereotyping a whole other segment of the population. I’ono, but as far as I can tell hip-hop culture (uummm, whatever that means) is prevalent pretty much across the board. Plus, there as many un-chivalrous d***ks in one race as in another, and just as many sweethearts; no race has a monopoly one either one. I’m definitely not one of those people who say they are color blind. I see color, but I also realize it doesn’t really tell me much about that individual I’m interacting with at the moment. I think stereotyping is a cope out.
@An Island,
uhh yah my thoughts exactly. && please lets separate modern mainstream hip hop from underground/oldschool.
great post, Champikins. i appreciate your insight and perspective on the matter. as some one who has been (for all intents and purposes) single for the last few years, each offered “improvement” is certainly worth looking into.
after having watched Something New with Sanaa and fine a$s Simon Baker, i had to remind myself that there are “other” options out there in the dating world. but as i mentioned on twitter, 2520 dudes just arent that into me. ive never had one approach me or express interest. and since im not interested in playing the aggressor, i guess 2520s (at least in pgh) arent a route mapped out for me. *shrug* idk.
while im not hopeless about finding love and a serious relationship, i do give the G-man a super o_O like there’s GOT TAH BE a dude or 2 out there worth even a short, semi-meaningful courtship for some reassurance that im capable of maintaining a mature, romantic relationship.
until then, im still surveying cats at the animal shelter to add to my Team of Me…
slight correction:
*after having watched Something New with Sanaa and fine a$s Simon Baker AGAIN RECENTLY…
@The One & True GEM… of the Ocean,
Ooooohhh, *drooling profusely* Simon Barker. I will watch the show ‘The Mentalist’ every now and then just to get my Barker fix.
Lol, at ‘Team of Me’
@The One & True GEM… of the Ocean, that dude is further proof that men really have no clue what designates an “attractive man” b/c that was on scruffy doofy lookin’ white cat to me.
@Panama Jackson,
He is anti-cute to me…lol
Then again I don’t find too many 2520 kats attractive.
@miss t-lee,
lol! i like scruffy 2520s like simon baker, (tasty), gerard butler (yummy), and russell crowe (delish). mmm mmm mmmm!!
@ The One & True GEM… of the Ocean,
I’m with you on Gerard Butler…lol
@Panama Jackson, Real talk homie…..I stay lookin at chicks like huh….how is dude attractive to you…..then again I do see a lot of brothas with what I call “Tiger Eye” -the inexplicable love of homely white chicks for bustdown purposes which happen to become relationships when u realize that she will do anything ANYTHING
@Blacklaw, LMAO @ “Tiger Eye”.
@Panama Jackson,
‘scruffy doofy lookin’-pretty much what would be listed under my match.com physical requirements section. Scruffy, doofy and lanky.
@The One & True GEM… of the Ocean, there are more than Black folks and 2520s. There are in betweens to the extremes. Maybe you need a Ninja Assassin in your life. Or a good Bollywood dancin’ IT guy.
@Stuff Ghetto People Like,
Maybe you need a Ninja Assassin in your life. Or a good Bollywood dancin’ IT guy.
You will not kill me this morning. I repeat you will NOT!
@Stuff Ghetto People Like,
Lol, why the poor Indian guy have to be a bollywood dancing fool. I love bollywood flicks. Really, really love them (like I’ll regularly trek to Naz 8 movie theaters and be the only black chick in the theater to see a flick), and I’m still disappointed that I haven’t meet a real, live, Indian guy that will spontenously burst into song and dance. I regularly ask my friends to do this, but ….nothing. Losers, the one time I wish someone would embrace their cultural stereotype they let me down.
@ofloveandotherdemons,
(like I’ll regularly trek to Naz 8 movie theaters and be the only black chick in the theater to see a flick),
I will say it again: a chick after my own heart. Shoot, I have my Bollywood 6 Theater fidelity card. They know me down there as thee black chick. Lol!
@Stuff Ghetto People Like,
LOL my bad. i have a TERRIBLE habit of classifying ALL non-blacks as 2520s. when i said 2520 dudes, i was referring to non-brothas (and this could actually include the “white black guy”).
none have ever been so bold as to approach me. a couple indian guys actually but i just wasn’t feeling them. and they prob thought EYE was indian and not black. so…
@The One & True GEM… of the Ocean, funny you bring that up, I did too, to an extent (the extent being “Blindian”)
@The One & True GEM… of the Ocean,
Umm, I thought we were going to the shelter together.
@Ivy St.,
Umm, I thought we were going to the shelter together.
regardless of the context, this is a depressing sentence
@Ivy St.,
lol i will make sure to have you in tow to recruit a furry foster child.
@The One & True GEM… of the Ocean,
but as i mentioned on twitter, 2520 dudes just arent that into me
do you think its that, or maybe that they’re scared to/don’t know how to approach?
@The Champ,
well as far as im concerned, them NOT approaching me is as good as them not being interested. they end in the same result… me not dating 2520/non-black guy
@The One & True GEM… of the Ocean,
May I ask why a non-black guy has to be white? What about Latino or Asian?
@Brownbelle, maybe it’s that the 2520 is the only other type of guy she (and others) would be interested in?
@Brownbelle,
sorry, as i mentioned above. i use 2520 guys interchangeably with non-black guys. there are VERY few latinos in pgh so theres not a large pool to work with anyway. nonetheless, aside from the occasional indian who thinks i’m indian, non-black guys just dont seem into me (or havent been bold enough to approach me)
@The One & True GEM… of the Ocean,
QUESTION FOR ALL: Where did this 2520 term come from? I don’t get it? Lol Please explain… i feel slow
I am one of those unaffected. I have always been able to keep a guy and a relationship. before being married I was a serial monogamist with a few open periods.. what I know is nasty a$$ bytchy attitudes very rarely help you get a man and most of these chicks seem to have those…. get over your f!cking self you have agood job a degree youre ms independent and all that. Great be proud but when you overdose on your own hype….well you see what you get….
@shay-d-lady,
You are so on point with this one!
I’ve never understood “independently dependent divas” (IDDs) who think it is okay to treat a guy like an a$$hole, just because they have a degree, whip, condo, get free ish more often than not based on looks alone, and have a flock of like minded friends that co-sign on all their foulness. The IDDs who claim to want a good man will never be able to close the deal because they will never be able to see beyond the veil of selfishness that cloaks a majority of what they do.
@tzerai,
Yep. Blocking their own blessings…and then complaining.
@shay-d-lady,
what I know is nasty a$$ bytchy attitudes very rarely help you get a man and most of these chicks seem to have those
good point. though its funny you mention this because i know so many women who are like this and have MEN. seemingly good men (looking from the outside in) at that. hell, i know plenty of chicks with OK/mediocre credentials (deg and job wise) that have terrible attitudes and have men. so while i def agree that a nasty, entitled attitude can be a woman’s detriment, it can also be the very thing that seems to have no bearing on her ability to attract and keep men.
i notice that when i’m nice, polite, blushing Gemmie i attract the typical “nice guy” who typically finishes last but not because he’s nice (more because he’s a pain in the ass for women who don’t like push-overs). times when ive been the Gem-enator who does act as if the world should be thankful im in it because of XYZ reasons, i attract very confident/arrogant men who are more on the side of a “bad boy” (even if he’s highly educated and has a high-status job).
i guess i say ALL that (lol) to say attitude may influence the TYPE of guy that a woman attracts and doesn’t always act as a deterrant.
@The One & True GEM… of the Ocean,
thats been my experience as well….every woman that i have ever met who was just an awful human being, has had a very sweet and loving husband/boyfriend. so, stank attitudes are working for somebody!
@The One & True GEM… of the Ocean, notice that when i’m nice, polite, blushing Gemmie i attract the typical “nice guy” who typically finishes last but not because he’s nice (more because he’s a pain in the ass for women who don’t like push-overs). times when ive been the Gem-enator who does act as if the world should be thankful im in it because of XYZ reasons, i attract very confident/arrogant men who are more on the side of a “bad boy” (even if he’s highly educated and has a high-status job).
This is SOOOOOOO true.. I’ve been the latter for some time now and I’ve somehow been lucky enough to meet a string of successful and single guys who couldn’t get enough of me. But I attribute that to just having confidence and being comfortable with yourself. There’s a HUGE difference between having a stank ass holier than thou attitude and just being cool and confident at all times. I think men, especially successful ones, are baffled when they meet a women who seemingly doesn’t give a f*ck about anything they have or if they leave or stay (all while being perfectly polite and charming about it). They don’t know what to do cause theyre so used to women fawning over them and sweating. And every man loves a challenge.
So ladies, BE THAT CHALLENGE!! NEVER SETTLE FOR LESS!! Now go out there and be somebody!!! lol
@The One & True GEM… of the Ocean,
but this is my point.. I can be a real bytch at times, but to my hubby and my loved ones I put that shyt aside.
Maybe these women do the same.
Its hard in corporate America so i get her point about developing that bytch facade as protection but you gotta let that shyt go when you get home.’
I am a completely different person outside of work, I have phone, I mingle, I smile…..
and while I have never dated a guy at work (well my husband works with me now) I think its a fair trade off.
A lot of these chicks cant turn it off and while at the club are still in bytch mode. Yes they are able to get a man but rarely able to keep one.
Also I hate the whole “something new” threat of dating a 2520. Dont nobody give a dayum.
If the fish werent biting at this pond do you really thing they care if you move to another one? do it and shut the f!ck up.
@shay_d_lady,
i def hear your point. i guess i was just trying to make the point that from the outside in you cant tell where the bytch starts and ends (i.e. is it just a facade versus true personality?) and how men fit into that (i.e. are they attracted to that? are they weak men who dont know any better? is the attitude even a factor?).
@shay-d-lady,
They alllllllllllllllways seem to have a “Man,” BUT many of those dudes are former shells of themselves. The lapdog she has browbeat him into being. Knowing that this damn sho ain’t what I’m after is my only solace…
@bittersweet’s baby,
They alllllllllllllllways seem to have a “Man,” BUT many of those dudes are former shells of themselves. The lapdog she has browbeat him into being. Knowing that this damn sho ain’t what I’m after is my only solace…
yeah, i was about to say the same thing. i actually probably should have made “just because someone is in a relationship/has a man, doesn’t mean that sh*t is actually good. sometimes you’re doing yourself a favor by being single” as number 8
@The Champ, Cosign. Just cuz ppl live in a nice house dont mean they aint leveraged out the a$$ and just cuz u got a man/woman dont mean they worth a damn
@Blacklaw,
Hallelujah and Amen to that
@shay-d-lady,
AHMEN!
@shay-d-lady, what I know is nasty a$$ bytchy attitudes very rarely help you get a man and most of these chicks seem to have those…. get over your f!cking self you have agood job a degree youre ms independent and all that. Great be proud but when you overdose on your own hype
that is very true. a lot of women do take on this attitude that “i’m the sh*t so you should recognize it.”
and i keep reading women saying that so many women like this have men and my only response is they either held it in check for their men (or long enough to get one before they unleashed the dragon) or the dudes just aint what they used to be.
but it does say something that (even reading this article) that one of the things that stands out is that “man, i’d never want to date her” when meeting a lot of these “well-to-do” chicks. and its not that all women who cant find a man are like that, but it does seem like the assholes do get a lot of press.
@Panama Jackson, “a lot of women do take on this attitude that “i’m the sh*t so you should recognize it.” ”
I’ve actually stopped speaking to a friend of mine because of this attitude because it carried into our friendship.
@shay-d-lady,
Oh dear sahy-d, how I love thee. Lol!
And to what she said, I say co/sign.
@shay-d-lady, please put ur reply in 40 foot tall billboard with neon lights…like now!!…”I am one of those unaffected. I have always been able to keep a guy and a relationship. before being married I was a serial monogamist with a few open periods.. what I know is nasty a$$ bytchy attitudes very rarely help you get a man and most of these chicks seem to have those…. get over your f!cking self you have a good job a degree youre ms independent and all that. Great be proud but when you overdose on your own hype….well you see what you get….”
I bet those women dont see their incongruous method of dating as a issue. They see dating anyone even in this economy “not on their level” as a huge no-no. In real life most of us dont own a thing, in debt up the wazoo, if we got it going on we are the only ones in the fam to do so last most of us only have one stream of revenue and thats is vastly more important than how much you make and what you buy with it. My boys that make 50K plus are spoken for-kids, pets, married the whole thing it took some time for each one. We need to dead this “upgrade my status” if we date. Again Michelle Obama was AHEAD of Barack. He had no means to “take care of her/them” but he was working on it. I never hear American women of all races talk of this. If you white you best be a analyst at a major bank, if you black better have a undergrad from a HBCU with a Masters from PWI and a nice career to go with it. Again even in this crackhead economy American women INSIST on this-at all cost. I have repeated endlessly we date to “talk $hit” we must have a partner that makes everyone else but us happy. I dont need some career hawk, if she wants to work 18 hr days cool, I will bag someone else that doesnt (there are times she like me, must but face it thats not the norm). Last ladies no one cares about the crass materialism, no one but yall care about the house and car as character traits. Barack had a hole in his Chevy.
@tempsoner,
I don’t know how I’ll feel five years from now but right now I don’t even care too much about my potential hubby having all these advanced degrees && making millions… i deff would like him to be college educated. but really for me any concern i have about income is based on the fact that i want a lot of kids and kids cost money!! if i didnt want kids id probably marry a starving artist-preferably a poet or musician (or if i was makin enough bank to support the whole family) lol.
wow. well said. it’s ironic that only other site/blog that i frequent said like the opposite: that we should continue to [publicly] engage in this particular discourse. go figure. honestly we [black women] just have to really dig down and see what’s wrong, not to say that black men don’t need to do some digging either. i’m about to graduate from undergrad and i def see the problem but i’m not trying to read/hear about it all the time, it can be depressing and no man wants some depressed chick!
@Naomi, Screw the other blog you read, VSB is where it’s at!!!
@Naomi,
wow. well said. it’s ironic that only other site/blog that i frequent said like the opposite: that we should continue to [publicly] engage in this particular discourse.
what blog?
@Naomi, maybe Black men do need to do some digging. There should be a community center (like iPhone apps, they have one for just about everything in Black neighborhoods) to groom our future generations to be more eligible bachelors. Set us up to be educated to the teeth and at a 6-figure gig before 30 instead of to add to a long line of wanna super street dudes out to serially womanize, rack up a record, tie up a lot of our prime earning years behind bars, and knock up enough women by 20 to have more kids than days of the week we work.
Too bad I’m only half-joking.
@Naomi,
im w/ you naomi… this ish is depressing. i miss the days when i was oblivious to this whole phenomena. && sometimes i do get sick about hearing the same thing about black women being single/lonely… i feel like this constant message that “being a black woman sucks and so does being with one” is only making things worse… that combined with ppl constantly pointing out that in college bm are at an advantage when it comes to dating… not that they dnt already realize this but i think openly admitting this makes it even worse lol
Champ,
haven’t written in a while…been kinda busy…but I still check VSB frequently. Just want to say that I appreciate the gems of knowledge you continue to pen. I will definitely have to forward this to my peeps, as it is a good dialog starter, and also helps to define some of the tunnel vision folks I know who want it all…but bring nothing to the table other than a list of preferences (*cough* demands *cough*).
LMAO @ “i can’t continue to ignore the pink and green elephant”…that line could get me in trouble with one of my targeted demographics markets! Ha ha.
@tzerai,
damn. long time no type and sh*t. how have you been?
*Post re~read*
One of the things I always find interesting about this debate is the idea that being successful and “educated” (i.e. degreed) confers some type of deification on an individual.
There’s little to be “bitchy” about if your long term goal is your definition of success.
Sour grapes make vinegar, not wine…(bad analogy but *shrug*)
@Tenchi, One of the things I always find interesting about this debate is the idea that being successful and “educated” (i.e. degreed) confers some type of deification on an individual.
allegedly this is a huge problem in the Black community since (allegedly) so many young Black professionals are walking around like their sh*t don’t stink. seems that most women thing us guys are running through everything b/c we know we can do what we want so we have our choices and know it, and women are ending up lonely b/c they refuse to “settle” since all of the well-to-do dudes suck b/c of the aforementioned hoeing.
its a vicious cyle.
@Panama Jackson,
its a vicious cyle.
so vicious in fact that it was like “f*ck that extra c. i’m a do me”
@The Champ,
Dead!
@The Champ,
rofl!
i am without hope….hopefully that is temporary! i see that the type of black man i want does not want me, and im not ready to change (and not sure i will be)….but ive also never been one to discriminate. i made peace with the likelihood that my future husband was probably NOT going to be black a looooong time ago.
currently, im not dating for a myriad of reasons that all boil down to….i dont feel comfortable inflicting myself upon someone right now. it would be a sad thing to meet mr. right and eff him up cuz i knew i shouldnt be in a relationship at this point. i wish more people gave the rest of us that type of courtesy! but i digress. im okay with alone right now, and i recently met an adorable little shih tzu that made me want a puppy (plus she’s hypo-allergenic!)
i think for now, my degree, my job and my puppy will be sufficient.
@shatani,
it would be a sad thing to meet mr. right and eff him up cuz i knew i shouldnt be in a relationship at this point. i wish more people gave the rest of us that type of courtesy!
Good For You! It really is selfless. I often lament those who dive right back into the dating pool with gaping wounds. Don’t that know that’s gonna sting them and possibly infect others?
@shatani, i see that the type of black man i want does not want me, and im not ready to change (and not sure i will be)
PLEASE DONT EVER SAY THAT. Dont be self defeating. One thing I’ve learned as I’ve gotten older is that having confidence in yourself goes such a long way. When I was younger, when I would meet guys that were so-called what I was into at the time (cocky arrogant d*ckheads – well this pretty much hasn’t changed except for the d*ckhead part) I would get all crazy and caught up. Guys sense that and they take advantage. I’m not an advocate of playing games but you need to portray yourself how you want others to perceive you. If you come off with confidence and like you have plenty other options (and you dont sleep with them too soon), guys won’t be so fast to try to pull the okey doke on you. They should feel lucky to be in YOUR presence, not the other way around.
@BKSweetheart, yeah thats true. most dudes i know love themselves a confident and sure woman.
hell i used to tell chicks i knew to walk like a queen and they’d meet a king.
that was MAAAAAAAAAAD cheesy.
@shatani,
‘… i see that the type of black man i want does not want me, ‘ This type of man is it based on physical characteristics or does it go deeper than that. I only ask because, among my laundry list of men and women I love, I have this crazy attraction to men with tattoos. I’m talking full sleeves, full body suit tattoos. Sadly, with only 0.9% of said population is the feeling reciprocated. This made me very verklempt, as can be expected, until I realized that I didn’t like them with any future relationships scenarios in mind, but as eye candy. And even lovelier still, some of the attributes I ascribed to them based on their physical appearance: ie a phuck all kind of spirit, can be found with other men as well. It would be lovely and grand if the ‘other men’ developed a penchant for body art during the relationship, but even without it they are some awesomely awesome individuals. Which is a long winded way of saying, if those particular types of men you are currently attracted to isn’t working out, then figure out what that the attraction is based on, and then try and find those qualities in other types of guys, and I think you’ll be pleasantly surprised.
@ofloveandotherdemons,
well, on my short list right now: brilliant, funny, great smile. i mean, those are key for me….and ive met plenty of men who fit the bill, but either they are not interested in me, or im completely oblivious…
i dont think its the latter.
but i do see what youre getting at and i can definitely get on board….
@ofloveandotherdemons,
what is it about the body art that gets you gaga?
@The Champ,
I honestly can’t explain it. I think the art part of it is a big factor. It’s not all tatts that work for me. I can’t stand tribal tattoos or those stupid sun designs or butterfly tramp stamps on chicks, but really creative, well thought out and executed designs….Yummy. It’s like having a permanent, breathing, walking and talking painting to ogle. That’s the best explanation I can come up with. It’s similar to asking what about chicks derrières makes you so weepy? I’m sure it would be hard to put your finger on the exact reason.
@ofloveandotherdemons,
A woman after my own heart.
But like you, I realized that it was the “unconventional” part of things that attracted me… so I got me an “unconventional”, artsty dude minus the tattoos… Problem solved!
@ofloveandotherdemons,
yah i hav a similar issue..lol i hav a thing for dreadheads w/ tats who have a “rasta mentality” && at the same time i want a guy who is college educated and “marriage minded” (dnt ask me what that means) and i just can’t seem to find all those qualities in one guy. but the fact that at the moment i am pretty much limited to my college campus may have something to do with that.
@shatani,
i dont feel comfortable inflicting myself upon someone right now. it would be a sad thing to meet mr. right and eff him up cuz i knew i shouldnt be in a relationship at this point. i wish more people gave the rest of us that type of courtesy!
this is some real sh*t, shat
@shatani, i see that the type of black man i want does not want me…please describe this guy in todays terms…note I know tons of MBA’s with no job or jobs below an undergrad
That #5 “remember that you’re not entitled to sh*t” is TRUTH. SO many sistas out there THINK that they do and have done everything to perfection and don’t realize that even if you’re physically attractive, look good on paper, and know how to smile, that still doesn’t mean shyt. As blunt as it may sound, a fulfilling relationship isn’t guaranteed and it doesn’t matter what your job title is, how many degrees you have obtained, or how mean your shoe game is.
With that said, I hope Helena Andrews doesn’t continue with the “B*tch Is The New Black” sentiment because I don’t see how that will help the plight of sistas in her position at all.
@Monk,
‘…a fulfilling relationship isn’t guaranteed and it doesn’t matter what your job title is, how many degrees you have obtained, or how mean your shoe game is.’
They should teach that and Murphy’s law in elementary schools. It would save people alot of heart ache and soul searching later on in life.
@Monk,
I hope Helena Andrews doesn’t continue with the “B*tch Is The New Black” sentiment
to her credit, i think thats more of a catchy book title for her then actual personal creed. i could be mistaken though
@The Champ,
For the book? Maybe. Hollywood won’t let that fly as a movie title though.
@Monk,
I definitely agree that #5 is what clinches the deal. Our society in general teaches “entitlement” from the get-go, and it’s a set up for failure I think.
Heck, at work we’re sponsoring children’s whose parents can’t afford gifts throught the Giving tree. You won’t believe the gifts some of the children are asking. I am often wondering if your parents don’t have enough to afford gifts to you what don’t they teach you that asking for a bycicle, a XBOX machine is not the way to go? Those kids grow up to expect things to be handed to them.
Speaking of which, I need to go get De’Marcus (real name) his VTech laptop and Leapfrog scribble and write.
@Sula,
Speaking of that, I just saw something on the news yesterday about an organization that had given some children some toys and the ungrateful bastards had the nerve to want the more expensive shyt that they knew their parents couldn’t even afford.
*smh*
@Monk, With that said, I hope Helena Andrews doesn’t continue with the “B*tch Is The New Black” sentiment because I don’t see how that will help the plight of sistas in her position at all.
I’m with you, Monk. Based on the article alone it appears that she is embracing this ‘b*tch’ persona, by stating that it is a mask that protects her from being vulnerable. And yet, in the same breath she recognizes the fact that this same b*tchy attitude is what keeps coworkers and potential ‘nice’ suitors at bay. I don’t get it, it’s like there’s a microchip missing in her self-awareness. I witness this behavior among men and women of all races. It’s a sort of defiance, if you will. It’s like on one hand they’re saying “I figured out why I’m an a$shole.” and on the other hand they’re saying “I’m an as$hole, love me or leave me.” This is inherent problem among many educated folk who think they have arrived at self-awareness. You have to go one step farther than merely recognizing your vulnerabilities/triggers and personality disorders. You then have to find out how those vulnerabilities are working against your success and work towards self-improvement.
@Miss Patterson,
Precisely. Or as the Champ so eloquently put it, just “change”.
@Miss Patterson,
I mean yahh wearing a “mask” does prevent you from being vulnerable but it also prevents you from falling in love because love and vulnerability go hand in hand. You can’t love someone with a chained up heart.
@AnonyMiss,
MESSAGE!
I think that for successful women it is hard to let thier guard down and be open. That Type-A personality overshadows everything and is offputting enough to keep a relationship from beginning or continuing.
@Manny,
Can I just say (and I talk about this in my reply to the post) that sometimes, our career/success is not the only reason some women (of any race) are guarded. Sometimes its about our past we’ve been hurt by someone, or are afraid of getting hurt, etc. I think that’s what the chick in the article was talking about when she talks about masks. The easy explanation for why women are “b*tchy” is because they are so driven, focused, successful…a lot of us are just doing a really good job of hiding the real reasons we have a big thick wall up.
@Madame Zenobia,
Not to be cold, but dating is war we all are wounded.
@Stank-0, & AkShone & Sula -
You are all right. Everybody gets hurt and love can be difficult for everyone. All I’m saying is a lot of times when Black women have walls up its not just because we’re b*tches. And its not always in regards to love. I’ll use my time in the corporate world as an example, I went from one job in a media relations department where I went out of my way to be friendly and nice to those around me – the clients (who were athletes) and the reporters who I worked with. I was one of only two Blacks and we were both women. The other chick was cold, kept her head down and did her work. One day the boss (a white lady) calls me into the office and essentially says my niceness was being perceived as flirty and unprofessional. She berated me and basically said I was just in my job to find a man/athlete I could hook up with and would carry me. That was a horrible, hurtful experience. Because it was completely untrue, I didn’t do anymore or less interaction with the athletes/reporters than the males (all white except for one Asian.) I chose to leave the position a few months later. (And was followed by rumors that one of the players knocked me up which is why I left.) I then went to a job in the financial world where I didn’t do much interaction past what was necessary for my job. I was cordial to my colleagues, but not overly friendly. Again I had one Black colleague who was a woman and behaved the same way, though we became friends and roommates for awhile. The boss (a black man) at that job called both us in individually and together to tell us we were too mean and should try to “fit in” more with the group. The white men and women in our positions did less work and had less interactions with their teams, her team and mine consistently but up the highest numbers in the department but to my knowledge no one was ever called in and talked to. Both non-romantic instances that have had an effect on how I interact with male colleagues at the office and men I’m interested in outside of it.
What I’m trying to say is that saying that in discussions like these not to just assume that black women are b*tchy just because they are driven. There’s always a reason why people behave the way they do. Some people can have harsh experiences and move past them, some people it takes a little longer. I think Manny’s original point was valid, but if your interested in a black woman who seems off-putting just because she’s driven, I’d say dig a little deeper. Try to take some time to get to know her, because she might be guarded for reasons beyond the obvious.
@Madame Zenobia,
I hear you. I do hear you clearly. I am a black woman who works in a field with very few black women or women period. I have worked in companies with different cultures and I had to adapt each time. It’s what everybody does…at work.
We are talking about our personal lives… we have to learn to navigate between both environment and not equate one with the other. I am not my job and it shouldn’t define me. It might be a big part of me but it’s not me. So when not on the job, I should behave accordingly.
@Madame Zenobia,
“Sometimes its about our past we’ve been hurt by someone, or are afraid of getting hurt, etc.”
I understand what you’re saying here, but who hasn’t been hurt in relationships? I mean, anybody can rationalize their behavior.
@AkShone,
Exactly. Anybody can rationalize, but they rarely want to accept it as being a problem and act on changing it.
@Madame Zenobia,
Everybody’s been hurt at some point or the other. Life is a series of choices. We have to realize that the life we live (as adults) is the results of a myriad of decisions we made… whether we decided to get over the hurt and work through it, or we decided to stay inside it and pet it, it’s all a matter of decisions.
@Madame Zenobia,
you are so right… && its not just about having been hurt by men in previous romantic relationships… i know for me, my childhood and my relationship with my father have really fucked up my attitude towards guys/relationships. I want to take risks and open up to guys but its just so hard for me because of all the shit I watched my father do to my mom and all the shit he did to me for the 15 or 16 years he was in and out of my life. In some ways your father is like your first boyfriend… not tryna sound incestual (is that a word?) or anything, but its true. Your father is supposed to be the prototype of a typical man and my relationship with my father gave me the impression that men are really selfish and when things go bad they’d rather run than try and work things out. It also gave me the impression that men don’t have the ability to love unconditionally. And so consequently, love has become both my greatest fear and my deepest desire. Sucks to be me..lol.