Herman Cain: Uncle Ruckus or The Realest Motherf*cker Alive?

There are numerous things I actively do (and don’t do) to avoid potentially and unnecessarily violent confrontation. While others honk at and flip off motorists who’ve upset them, I smirk, shake my head, and take solace in the fact that my car would literally f*ck their car up if I wanted it to. I don’t date women with accent marks or hyphens in their names. And, if your nightclub has undergone three name changes in the past two years, you probably won’t find me there.

Why do I go through these lengths? Well, one of my goals in life is to be a 60 year old black man. And, from what I understand, it’s very difficult to be a 60 year old black man if you get shot to death before you reach 60, so I try to live in a way that decreases the likelihood of that happening.

Now, 60 isn’t an arbitrary age. It’s important for me to get to that point because I want to shake hands with a Martian (I figure we’re around 30 years from making that happen) and, more importantly, I want to enjoy the same filterlessness that my dad currently does.

As anyone who has a 60+ father, uncle, or grandfather in their lives will tell you, 60 is the age when men (black men in particular) lose their filters and any sense of self-consciousness and will say anything they want to about anybody at any time. I desperately want to make it there too. I literally cannot wait for the day when I’ll be able say things like “Does your mother know that she raised an idiot?” to a city council man’s face and be able to get away with it.

Anyway, this filterlessness makes for entertaining conversations. So, you can imagine what I was expecting to hear the other night when I asked for his opinion about Herman Cain.

His answer — “Well, I have to say that he hasn’t said or done anything really stupid yet” — stuck with me for two reasons

A) The bar for politicians is so low that “Well, at least he’s not an idiot” is a ringing endorsement. Seriously, can you imagine if other industries had the same low expectations? Can you imagine seeing a Chick-fil-A ad that says “Well, at least you won’t get Salmonella“?

B) My dad, a revolutionary who occasionally rocks black berets and still says things like “solid on down,” isn’t turned off by Herman Cain

My mom — who’s not quite as revolutionary as my dad, but possesses the most potent bullshit detector on Earth — entered the room soon after. I asked for her opinion, and she basically said the same thing.

Now, I realize that this could just be some type of mandatory kinship speaking — a mandate from high (or Morgan Freeman perhaps) that when any black person 60 or over is doing anything remotely positive, every other 60+ black person must immediately give them the benefit of the doubt. But, the feelings from my Black Panther-ass parents made me rethink my own thoughts about Cain and why I possess them.

I have to admit, I hadn’t even considered giving dude an honest chance. Part of it has to do with his name (“Herman” is just a silly f*cking name to me. It feels like something someone should name a dog.), but the main reason why he was thrown in the “Don’t even consider this n*gga” pile is that The Tea Party people — you know, those cats who generally seem to abhor us and think the president is from Jupiter — seem to love him, never a good sign. Also, with the exception of Colin Powell and (maybe) Condi Rice, every black republican I can think of just seems to have a general aura of lame around them. It’s like they’re perpetually engulfed in a spiderweb of wackness.

Cain may very well be the Antichrist. But, it’s not fair to him for me to immediately assume that he’s the spawn of Satan just because he’s black and he happens to belong to the 2011 GOP, and it’s not fair to me to be so intellectually apathetic when deciding on a leader. There’s absolutely no chance in hell that I’d actually vote for him (Seriously. If you’re a close friend of mine and you don’t vote for Obama in 2012, you might no longer be a close friend of mine. Yes, it’s that serious.), but I can at least listen to what he has to say.

I mean, he is a 65 year old black man.  That guarantees that he’ll at least be entertaining.

Anyway, people of VSB.com, I’m curious: What are your feelings about Herman Cain? Is he Uncle Ruckus, another republican reactionary, or the realest motherf*cker alive?

Also, did the fact that he’s a black republican influence your opinion about him before you even heard what he had to say?

—The Champ

  • Curious Capital
    • http://twitter.com/wavecapwillis Wave Cap Willis

      Yes, shrugging off Uzbekistan’s role in US foreign policy is a gaffe, but I believe that it’s salvageable.

      In fact, his move might endear him to the Tea Party even more: TP members want America to return to its pre-WW2 isolationism since a Ron Paul-style “dismantling of the US empire” could cut military expenditures and could decrease the national debt burden.

      And, in Tea Partiers’ eyes, who’s a better person to make such budget cuts than a former businessman?

      • http://scottballinger.blogspot.com Scott Ballinger

        With respect to Wave Cap’s analysis of the tea party movement, I doubt you’ll find the average tea partier very interested in Ron Paul’s isolationist rhetoric. The tea party and Ron’s ronulans and paulbots are at odds on most issues. Just what is Uzbekistan’s role in US foreign policy anyway? And how is it important to a presidential campaign? Is there any such thing as a former businessman?

        • Nein

          What is Uzbekistan’s role?Well apparently they’re a key element for providing an alternate logistics route to supply US forces in Afghanistan.
          You know,other than Pakistan.
          Might be a good idea not to rely so heavily on one route.
          Might be a good thing not to go out of your way to piss them off,particularly as I believe the US is in negotiations with its government for use of its territory.
          Oil(Known reserves,600 million barrels)
          Eight largest natural gas producer(Known reserves 66.2 trillion cubic ft).
          Seventh largest gold producer(4th in reserves).

          And all this from 5 minutes Google-fu.
          The spectacle of a candidate for President of the US flaunting his ignorance is horrifying to me.Should be horrifying to you too.

  • VenturaCountyStar

    He and President Obama are similiar in their politics; they just have different approaches. Neither of them are interested in serving the interests of the working class. We aren’t friends but I can’t see myself voting for a president who doesn’t represent my interests.

    • http://twitter.com/wavecapwillis Wave Cap Willis

      He and President Obama are similiar in their politics; they just have different approaches.

      Indeed. Quote:

      Republicans versus Democrats is largely a false divide. The monied interests would rather have us arguing Republican vs. Democrat (50/50 split) than Rich vs. Everyone Else (1/99 split).

      Democrats represent the U.S. Chamber of Commerce almost as well as Republicans. Don’t forget that Glass-Steagall was repealed under President Bill Clinton.

      Democrats simply play the game differently. Rather than trying to purposefully divide the electorate to play the statistical odds, Democrats try to appeal to a majority with a populist message.

      From this Daily Kos article (emphases added by me): http://www.dailykos.com/story/2011/10/10/1024591/-99:-A-Warning-to-OWS-and-the-Rest-of-Us

      • http://www.twitter.com/diva_magnifique ChaoticDiva

        Difference between a Republican and a Democrat? One party is willing to pay for social programs, the other isn’t. There’s a reason I stepped away from politics. I cannot stand the high level of bullish. I hope both parties destroy themselves.

    • H.

      Yeah, I don’t think he’s out to help the working class:

      http://politicalticker.blogs.cnn.com/2011/10/05/cain-not-rich-no-job-blame-yourself/

      • http://scottballinger.blogspot.com Scott Ballinger

        What is it that you think the working class needs from Herman Cain? How about we drop the class business and elect a president and a congress that’s actually interested in turning things around. People in this country have been getting their constituent itch scratched for 50 years, and where has it gotten us? Government has been lousy at addressing inequities across the board. It has created more disparity than it’s ever resolved. People stopped relating to each other, working hard, having families and seeking to improve society and are now waiting on the government to do it for them. We have been waiting for government to improve our national lot for three generations and year on year things get worse. How about we get government out of our lives and our pockets, and back to what it’s supposed to do. Let’s learn how to take care of ourselves.

        • H.

          I agree. I think we should all vote for Ron Paul and call it a day. He’s the most honest politician I’ve seen in a long time, and he’s more into helping the whole country rather than a particular class, be it the working or upper class.

          • GriFFdaMagician

            The only thing about that is that IT WILL NEVER HAPPEN. It’s simple, as long as someone profits on the current conditions no matter how bad, they will use their current influence and resources to keep the conditions in their favor. Lobbyists will keep lobbying and politicians will keep getting laid and paid by them. Its been happening since there has been organized government. Its gonna take some wild French Revolution type of ish to get these dudes in line for real!

            “Government has been lousy at addressing inequities across the board. It has created more disparity than it’s ever resolved. People stopped relating to each other, working hard, having families and seeking to improve society and are now waiting on the government to do it for them. We have been waiting for government to improve our national lot for three generations and year on year things get worse. How about we get government out of our lives and our pockets, and back to what it’s supposed to do. Let’s learn how to take care of ourselves.”

            Do we really know how to take care of ourselves???? Some of us do, so much so that we will crap on others to get ours. Government is merely a reflection of the will of the most powerful people of the nation, not the people.

        • http://www.greenafrodiva.com Green Afro Diva

          Here’s a suggestion: Stop voting for the people who keep saying that government can’t do anything if the people you are voting for happens to BE government i.e congressman, governors etc

          • H.

            Well you want someone who has experience in politics. But you also want someone who understands the role of government and realizes the problems and the overstepping of government with respect to the Constitution. The role of president is too complex to have someone who has no experience in it.

            • http://www.Hollywood4Cain.com Chris Conlee

              Uh, you mean like Mr. Obama? He had exactly ZERO experience in anything. I’ll take Mr. Cain’s 40+ years of business excellence over Mr. Obama’s 1/2 term as senator anytime.

              • MzPW

                Hmmm….maybe it’s just me, but it’s been proven over and over again that those with a strong business background are best suited towards the business field. Frankly, I’m tired of the Donald Trumps of the country believing that they know how to best service and “turn around” the direction of the country simply because the majority of their business deals were successful. I want someone who can relate to and is willing to work for MY causes, not someone whose sole focus is on the business matters of the country (and NO, I’m certainly not downplaying the importance of our country’s economic turmoil nor am I saying that the best move is to ignore our financial burdens).

            • http://www.greenafrodiva.com Green Afro Diva

              I agree with this. However, Ron Paul is really not that guy and I don’t get why people especially young people, feel that he can make a better candidate. He wants to leave healthcare to the free market which seems like the complete opposite of him wanting to make it affordable. He wants to eliminate the Dept of Education and leave it in the hands of the states, eliminate the income tax and he voted against a bill commemorating the Civil Rights Act of 1964 because he feels that the act did not achieve its purpose and feel that businesses should not adhere to racial quotas.

  • http://biggerthomas.wordpress.com MadScientist7

    but what if herman cain is really a spy sent to infiltrate the gop? he could win the election and be like “gotcha b*tch” and switch it up on his party. he would try to get bills passed like “3 day weekends” where the federal work week would be tuesday through friday. or he could try to legalize weed.

    • nillalatte

      That might actually make sense ’cause he doesn’t seem to have a lot of it! :P

    • http://www.greenafrodiva.com Green Afro Diva

      regular working hours would be on CP time

      • http://twitter.com/drewshane Drew-Shane

        w/ two 15-minute breaks and an extra 15 on top of that hour for lunch…

    • http://twitter.com/wavecapwillis Wave Cap Willis

      Wow. You’ve managed to describe a more fantastic circumstance than the Eddie Murphy’s “White Like Me” skit on SNL. Kudos.

    • http://6monthsto30.wordpress.com/2011/08/05/wait-what/ chunk

      I would then love him. Just as much as I love Godfather’s Pizza.

    • SweetSass

      Legalizing weed would help the struggling pizza business. Muuuuunnnnccchies.

      • http://biggerthomas.wordpress.com MadScientist7

        very much so. i heard if you get high enough you could eat a whole large pizza.

  • http://www.greenafrodiva.com Green Afro Diva

    Wow, I’m Number 1?

    The Herman Cain types are no where near revolutionary imo because they are ready to kiss the YT’s arse at any convenience. At least Michael Steele pretended like he was down for the cause because he liked fried chicken and potato salad and used wack hip hop references. But seriously, I never gave Herman Cain a second thought, mostly because he seems to come off as uneducated and close minded as the other yahoos in the running field. They all are trying to out crazy each other in hopes to win a talking spot on Fox News, a speaking arrangement and book deals. It’s cynical as hell…If i’m not #1 anymore, damn…

    • DQ

      ****They all are trying to out crazy each other ****

      And the competition is fierce.

      • GriFFdaMagician

        I totally agree with that they are just trying to one up the other in being the most radical! Im reminded of a chris rock jike which he is talking about old black men being the most racist people in america. The joke goes, “but grandad u married a white woman, ‘Hey i love her and she love me and thats all that matters but if tha revolution start tomorrow, i will kill her first just to let these crackaz kniw i mean bizness!!’”.
        In that joke i think lies what is missing from ole herman! I think he has know real sense of belonging to black society or white, like unkle rukus! If tha revolution started tomorrow this ninja would def be on the other side as he has bought into conservative, fux news american imperialism bull! When tha race really heats up for the pres, the gop will let him know he still a ninja like the rest and this guy will be a non factor!!

    • http://www.Hollywood4Cain.com Chris Conlee

      You’re kidding, right? Mr. Cain holds advanced degrees in mathematics and computer systems engineering. He was a ballistics analyst (ie: a rocket scientist) for the department of the Navy before running numerous companies and achieving huge success. He has orders of magnitude more experience than the current occupant of the White House. He’s EXACTLY what this country needs to get us out of the ditch Obama has planted us in. Do yourselves a favor, and listen to his message without the blinders.

      Cain 2012!

      • http://verysmartbrothas.com Panama Jackson

        while I can’t say that I’m on my Morehouse brother’s bandwagon, I do agree. Dude is successful as hell in everything that he does. And he’s educated as hell.

        I agree too. When listening to him talk, at least he makes sense. His issue is, ironically, what Champ spoke of, his lack of filter. His issue with religious freedom might kill him in the long run since one thing the Red States do like is the Constitution. They might hate that you ain’t Christian, but they’ll let you be whatever you want as long as it doesnt impede on their rights too.

      • DQ

        ****He has orders of magnitude more experience than the current occupant of the White House. He’s EXACTLY what this country needs to get us out of the ditch Obama has planted us in.****

        1. We were in a ditch when Obama was elected
        2. The United States Government is not a business. Businesses grow. And the one thing conservatives DON’T want the government to do IS grow. Thus Cain’s business “experience” means what?

        • http://www.Hollywood4Cain.com Chris Conlee

          For what it’s worth, Mr. Cain made Godfather’s Pizza successful by shrinking it — jettisoning the unprofitable stores. Then focusing on messaging and quality. These are the same things that have to happen to government. We cannot continue to fund all the programs and departments that exist now, let alone add a gazillion new ones as we pander for votes. As a supposedly rich nation, of course we need a social safety net for the neediest of the needy. For the rest, we need to foster opportunity, and we need to make this nation business friendly so that jobs come back. Mr. Cain is a master communicator with a good head on his shoulders, and his center-right perspective puts him very much in the majority mindset of Americans at large. We need somebody who makes us feel good about ourselves again, the way Ronald Reagan did. He’s the man for the job.

          • DQ

            For what it’s worth, the latitude afforded to a CEO, is far different than the latitude afforded to a President working with a legislative body that represent at least 50 different view points and perspectives. It’s fine to have ideas, but the reality is, you will have to compromise.

            As to making the nation business friendly, how much more friendly can we be to them? Many of them pay no NO taxes now. You’re aware of this right? So what can we do in addition to this?
            http://communities.washingtontimes.com/neighborhood/ad-lib/2011/apr/10/tax-evaders-wall-shame/

            I won’t even bother talking about Reagan, his deficit spending should speak for itself. Still, it’s strange that his Presidency makes you feel good about yourself when many of his policies (much to the chagrin of Progressives) mirror Reagan.

            • DQ

              *When many of Obama’s policies (much to the chagrin of Progressives) mirror Reagan

          • k-steez

            Ronald Reagan made “us” feel good? Yeah, like Billy Bob Thornton in Monster’s Ball…bent us over and fcked us. If that’s what you’re going for, by all means, Cain 2012.

      • http://www.greenafrodiva.com Green Afro Diva

        so is mitt romney, but you can’t run government like a business. So is say, paul krugman but he has political inexperience and sorry, but you can’t expect the government to nationalize everything. Your point?

      • SweetSass

        Cain is a lunatic or heartless. He wants a 9-9-9 plan.

        9 percent national sales tax. Yes. Insane. On top of state that have their own sales tax, that would mean regular consumers would be paying 19% on every item they buy. The freaking Chamber of Commerce (a force I consider to be evil) even thinks this is insane and punitive towards the working class.

        9 percent flat tax rate on everyone. His talking points he says that “49% of the country doesn’t pay income taxes” but leaves out the part that THEY ARE TOO POOR TO EVEN BE PART OF THE LOWEST TAX BRACKET. They live check to check and cannot spare a penny to pay taxes. He thinks they should be taxed at the same rate as billionaires. This would be a tax on being poor.

        HE DOES NOT MAKE SENSE…

        • http://www.styleillusions.com WIP

          FYI- I’m in a tax bracket and I can’t spare a penny to pay taxes either.

          • SweetSass

            I meant… *paying bracket.*

        • http://www.Hollywood4Cain.com Chris Conlee

          They may be “too poor to pay” into the system, yet they want something in return anyway. I get it, it’s a tough fricking dilemma, but the fact is, unless people have some skin in the game then they’re ALWAYS going to vote for the team that promises them more free stuff. And that simply will not get them out of their poverty. As I mentioned in another post, we need a social safety net, but we also need to be tough as a nation and pull ourselves up. To get there we need a bit of tough love, a business friendly environment, and a great cheerleader at the top. Somebody like Ronald Reagan to remind us of our greatness as a nation. That guy is definitely Mr. Herman Cain.

          • kickandasnare

            The above message was brought to you courtesy of the us chamber of commerce, the gop, the tea party and fox news.

            Seriously?

            • k-steez

              right? I keep asking myself is this a joke? is Champ posing as Chris Conlee to get a rise out of us? iCant.

          • SweetSass

            You can’t pull yourself up by the bootstrap if they took your shoes.

            • Kema

              As I was reading that comment I thought of what you wrote only to scroll down and see it. lol! Get out my head!!!

            • jane

              EXACTLY.

          • SweetSass

            FYI- Ronald Reagan, your hero… quadripuled the deficit of this nation during his two terms.

      • http://www.twitter.com/diva_magnifique ChaoticDiva

        Realize that Obama has attempted to make a difference, but unfortunately the partisan politics in DC have effectively canceled each other out. Nobody is willing to compromise, which is killing our nation. It is very unfair to blame shortcomings on one person, especially because he is a figure head, like most “leaders” (Presidents, Governors, Mayors, etc.).

      • k-steez

        Uhhh…degrees and work experience is nice. But you STILL come off as a yahoo, as Green Afro put it, when your big ideas include building a moat filled with alligators to keep out illegal Mexican immigrants and not allowing Muslims to work in gov’t for fear that they’ll make us practice Sharia law. He may be smart, but those statements are not.

        #FckCain

      • k-steez

        Uhhh…degrees and work experience are nice. But you STILL come off as a yahoo, as Green Afro put it, when your big ideas include building a moat filled with alligators to keep out illegal Mexican immigrants and not allowing Muslims to work in gov’t for fear that they’ll make us practice Sharia law. He may be smart, but those statements are not.

        #FckCain

      • MzPW

        Sorry bro, but I simply can’t get down with anyone who is willing to support a conservative type of agenda that further separates the American people into groups (racial, classes, religion, any other way you can slice us up). Cain is certainly successful and absolutely intelligent, to that I will agree. But ignoring the social issues that are dividing our country even MORE SO than our current financial struggles certainly are not going to fix the mess we’re in.

        Obama (again) 2012…let the man finish the work he’s started….

    • GypsyCurl

      “60 is the age when men (black men in particular) lose their filters and any sense of self-consciousness and will say anything they want to about anybody at any time.”

      Means a** women over 60 do it too. I have to go off on my misguided G-ma everytime she makes a negative comment about my natural hair. (My response: Bish- minus the bish- You aint white! You lightskint ho- minus the ho.) Needless to say, she is learning she can’t pull that shat with me.

  • Loving Me

    I told myself I would give him an honest chance to prove himself at least worthy of my attention and then he went and said that he was too young to participate during the Civil Rights movement… despite the fact that he was born in 1945 and was a college student at Morehouse during the sixties. And when the interviewer mentioned that, he said “well maybe I had a sick relative” … that was the point where he lost my attention and any respect I may have given him for at least being a black man in the position to run for a Presidential nomination. As far as I’m concerned, the man is a puppet for the Tea Party because they need at least a portion of the black vote (and so they can say they aren’t racist) but he’s too stupid (for lack of a better word) or self absorbed to realize that he’s nothing more than the token black guy of the Republican party

    • Iamnotakata

      I agree ^^

    • http://twitter.com/tylerg_thomas tgtaggie

      Due to his success in business, he probably is used to being the token black guy.

      • Loving Me

        Good point.. and he’s probably okay with that

        • DQ

          Not only ok with it, but probably thinks that’s the way the world is supposed to work. The brainwashed blacks complain and cause problems and try to change things, while the compliant and dutiful token negro, doesn’t cause any waves, obeys the system (even if it oppresses him) and in return some day his loyalty is rewarded.

          • Loving Me

            Lmao! I’m laughing but it’s so not funny cause I know people who think like that smh

            • DQ

              I do too. We all do. And that’s why conservatives love them.

          • http://www.Hollywood4Cain.com Chris Conlee

            Yeah, Forbes says he’s worth upwards of $18 million dollars. He’s been totally oppressed and made to heel with this ‘token’ pittance. Come on, man, give it a break. This dude earned every dollar by being one of the best at what he does. He’s truly an elite, and the black community should be honored to have him as a spokesperson. I’m honored to have him as my spokesperson just as an American.

            • DQ

              An opportunity afforded to him by the work of others to make sure he had a chance. Tell you what, when you all nominate him, and he gets elected I’ll stop referring to him as a token. Not for a second do I think you’ll do either… but I stand at the ready to admit I was wrong.

              As for who the black community to honored to have as a spokesman, I’ll go with the guy with the funny name born in Hawaii. You know. The guy that worked hard in school, got an ivy league education, earned a Law degree, actually worked in the community, became a Senator, became President, and who’s worth a few million too (even after donating the $1.4 million dollars that came with his Nobel Peace Prize). Is that fair? I mean, that sounds like someone black people should be admire and be honored to have as a spokesman too right?

              • http://www.Hollywood4Cain.com Chris Conlee

                Yep. Your prerogative.

              • SweetSass

                *Applause.*

            • Sula

              I’m honored to have him as my spokesperson just as an American.

              That makes it clearer. :)

              All discussion henceforth shall realize who the speaker above is. It makes it easier, and settles your blood. Carry on. :arrow:

              • Nicole

                @ Sula:

                Noted. Thanks.

              • k-steez

                yes. I’m gonna stop replying now. I usually read VSB in the morning, and I’m glad I didn’t today, Champ and Mr Conlee would have seriously blew me that early.

    • http://twitter.com/itztrizz617 her better option

      I refuse to have a “yes man” as the leader of the free world, next thing you know we gonna be paying 15% taxes cuz China is tired of waiting for they bread

  • Rog

    The fact that he was purposefully non active during the Civil Rights movement despite attended at freakin Morehouse (of ALL the colleges) during some of the pivotal moments of the movement has soured me a bit on him. I mean you have an opportunity to be apart of one of biggest events of in the history of America and your chillin on the bench, just doesn’t sit right with me.

    • Rog

      *despite attending

    • DQ

      If I had money to bet, the same crowd that he runs with now, would have been the crowd who would’ve been LESS than enthusiastic about a Civil Rights Movement. It comes as no surprise to me at all that he sat on the side line. He probably didn’t agree with Civil Rights.

      • lotusflower11

        WE WAS HAPPY AT THE BACK OF THE BUS!

        • DQ

          Yeah that section of the bus had more rhythm and soul. :)

          • CurlyTop

            And watermelon.

            • DQ

              Don’t forget the O.E.

              • http://www.pinchmycheekie.wordpress.com Cheekie

                And Tyrese with Coca Cola. -_-

            • Sula

              and chicken. Fried hard. *smh*

    • @milesfan79

      “The fact that he was purposefully non active during the Civil Rights movement despite attended at freakin Morehouse (of ALL the colleges) during some of the pivotal moments of the movement has soured me a bit on him. I mean you have an opportunity to be apart of one of biggest events of in the history of America and your chillin on the bench, just doesn’t sit right with me.”

      yes i was shocked at this too, but i thought about for awhile and honestly he was just being honest. I think thats the funny think about history when something great/significant happens looking back ppl tend to assume anyone near it should and would have been apart of it.

      but the honest truth(which cain told) is everyone wasn’t, i once saw a interview of jesse jackson and reporter asked “how did u get close to MLK?” his answer was “there wasn’t a long line of ppl trying to get close to him, bc you had to be willing to get beat up and die.” i’m sure many 65+ blk men weren’t involved with civil right movement and quite a few were just trying to “stay out of trouble” like cain.

      take Obama for example, blk ppl love and will fight for obama, based on his accomplishments today one could easily assume all blk ppl had his back in 2008. but history shows us, in 2007 and early to mid 2008 MANY blk ppl backed hiliary clinton at 1st nd didn’t think Obama had a chance, if i’m not mistaken even jesse jackson was in clinton camp before Obama proved he could win.

      So just like Obama in2008, i think civil right movement was that same, like i said looking back on history it easy to assume/think every able body black person in the south/US should and would have been eagarly ready to ride or die for the cause but thats simple not the case as cain has shown. I think cain was being honest abt his views at time and its easy in retrospect of history to frown upon him for his honest answer. ask every 65yo+ blk man you know/see were that involved w/cause and i’m sure some werent.

      • http://twitter.com/tylerg_thomas tgtaggie

        I’m pretty sure Cain was the guy who saw some of those dudes coming back to Morehouse all hurt and s*it. And he said to himself….”I’m going to support this on the sidelines.”

        When Obama announced his run for the white house in 2007, I would say none of the “old guard” supported him (i.e. Andrew Young, John Lewis, Jessie Jackson Sr., Julian Bond and et. al.) All them had close ties with the Clintons. I’m pretty sure Hilary was plotting to run since 93′. lol.

        • http://www.Hollywood4Cain.com Chris Conlee

          You’re “pretty sure” of this…how? Simply because it advances your narrative of who he is as a person? The more of this crap I hear, the more I realize he was EXACTLY correct when he said black voters in this country have been brainwashed into not hearing an alternative point of view. The fact is, he was a young man, who’s father told him to avoid trouble. He did just that, while attending college, setting goals for himself in a predominately ‘white world,’ and he then achieved much more than 99 percent of white people. And he did it without a handout from anybody. This is the kind of role model Black America should be proudest of, instead of trying to tear him down. Why is that, you think?

          • http://www.styleillusions.com WIP

            He is, if nothing else, a great example of achievement. I wonder how much racism he faced climbing the ranks throughout his career?

            • DQ

              I wonder if he would have been able to achieve if other black people HADN’T gone out there and got in trouble in the cause of equality and justice.

              • http://www.styleillusions.com WIP

                We’ll never know. Fact is most black people didn’t go out there and get in trouble. So I’m not sure what your point is- we all benefited. We’re all thankful. He took advantage of the work those people put in and became a beast. Wasn’t that what they were essentially fighting for?

                • DQ

                  They were certainly fighting for us to have the ability to achieve. I don’ think, however, that they sacrificied so that we could one day suggest that our achievement was proof that we don’t have to fight the unjust, that we accomplished all we did on our own, and that the trials and misfortunes of others were singularly their own doing.

                  It’s not even so much that he was a non-participant in the CRM, it’s that, were it NOT for that movement, he would most likely BE the “unsuccessful” demographic to whom he condescends with his comments. And I wonder, would he blame himself for that, as he is suggesting others blame themselves for the unethical activities that LARGELY contributed to the economic downturn on Wall Street?

              • RG

                This is the irony in his lack of participation in the Movement. He directly benefited from the struggles of his classmates and generation that did participate, but hey…he did it on his own.

          • A Woman’s Eyes

            He did it because of the men who marched in the civil rights protest and came back to campus bloody and beaten. If no one had spoken up for the injustices in America that governed the very freedoms that White people took for granted or relished having, Herman Cain would not have his successes today.

            This argument reminds me of Clarence Thomas saying the same thing about himself and speaking poorly of his sisters. Yet it was his sisters who babysat him so that their mother could work to help pay tuition for the school he was attending. It was the guidance of the nuns at his school that cleared the path for him towards his career accomplishments.

          • Sula

            The day YOU are a black voter is the day you get to make comments about who, what and how black voters are brainwashed or not. Why does he need our vote for? He has you and your kind, doesn’t he? Leave us alone. Ugh.

            • http://www.Hollywood4Cain.com Chris Conlee

              As I mentioned before, I’m not trying to be offensive. I’m just pointing out that you might be better served as a community by even bullsh*tting the two parties into thinking you MIGHT vote republican. At that point, both parties would HAVE to compete for your votes. As it stands right now, the democrats pander for your votes, but don’t deliver ANYTHING to you. By voting as a monolithic block, I believe you’ve diminished your voice. Call me stupid.

              And for the record, while I know it is completely inconsequential, and I don’t mean to overstate it, I have some empathy and understanding of black issues. I cut a feature a year or so ago called Wigger, which was written and directed by Dr. Omowale Akintunde, who is head of the Black Studies Department at the University of Omaha. Dr. Akintunde and I had months of conversations about his black experience and I learned A LOT from those conversations.

              I don’t mean to be offensive at all, and I apologize to anybody who I inadvertently offend. I’m an unapologetic conservative, and for years I’ve simply wondered why the black and hispanic communities don’t support conservative candidates more? I still don’t understand, but I’m trying.

              • LMNOP

                ” I have some empathy and understanding of black issues. I cut a feature a year or so ago called Wigger…”

                WHAT THE FCK?

                • http://www.Hollywood4Cain.com Chris Conlee
                  • LMNOP

                    well chris conlee, you seem to be very into this commenting stuff, so just for future reference, wtf is usually a rhetorical question.

                    • http://www.Hollywood4Cain.com Chris Conlee

                      And I was supplying possible narrative to your rhetorical question. I know I don’t have–and will never be a part of–the black experience, particularly, as has been pointed out, each person’s experience is different. I merely hope to make it clear that my intent is NOT to be offensive. Granted, I may be because of my ignorance, but it’s definitely not intentional. I do proudly stand by my candidate, however. May our respective camps face off in the debates next fall and may the best man win.

                    • http://www.Hollywood4Cain.com Chris Conlee

                      And I was supplying possible narrative to your rhetorical question. I know I don’t have–and will never be a part of–the black experience, particularly, as has been pointed out, each person’s experience is different. I merely hope to make it clear that my intent is NOT to be offensive. Granted, I may be because of my ignorance, but it’s definitely not intentional. I do proudly stand by my candidate, however. May our respective camps face off in the debates next fall and may the best man win.

              • k-steez

                actually, a lot of Black people do support conservative candidates b/c they have things in common like Christianity, anti-abortion, anti- gay marriage, etc.

                however, the foolishness that comes out of Cain’s mouth is just ridiculous. some of it idiotic and some of it inflammatory.

                we don’t have to consider him as a voting option to prove that we’re open-minded.

                by the way, taking Black studies and talking to your professor about HIS experiences does not give you an intimate look into the souls of Black folk.

                and ur insistance that Blk people are brainwashed for not considering him, in spite of the very specific reasons people on this thread are giving for not supporting him, shows that you are the one that is either 1)brainwashed 2)not too bright 3)or sticking to your uninformed opinion even after being informed.

              • Sula

                Dr. Akintunde and I had months of conversations about his black experience and I learned A LOT from those conversations.

                Because your discourse seems to come from a genuine(albeit misguided) place, I will keep the discourse. Granted you had your feature with Dr. Akintunde… and while I don’t know much about Dr. Akintunde to really tell you who he is or what his black experience, he does not and will never represent all black people. I understand what you are trying (and might I add, failing) to do but this just doesn’t belong anywhere in this debate.

                I can even push further and tell you that based on his patronym I can tentatively assert that Dr. Akintunde is most likely a product of an Immigrant household… and seriously his black experience will be FAR different from say a black man from a non-immigrant household. So while I am in no way discrediting, Mr. Akintunde’s valuable experience, I am just reminding you what all anthropologists and ethnologists have known for eons: even while acclimated to a culture and going as far as living in it, one can never become “it”.

                More importantly, it’s rather irrelevant to mention doing a feature on a “prominent” black person… because “black issues” are human issues to start with… and when people will be able remove themselves from their little place of comfort and be objective about life in general, they will realize this little tidbit. But I appreciate your attempt a conversation, and wish you best luck with your candidate. You’re gonna need a whole lot of it.

                • DQ

                  You know what? I’m voting for Obama in 2012, but I suggest we nominate Sula in 2016.

              • MzPW

                So, according to your argument, we’re either voting for a party that openly and *loudly* panders for our votes….or we’re supporting a party that simply doesn’t give a damn about the causes and concerns we as a people have to face each day. It’s a catch-22 situation.

                Personally, I will not support a candidate that pushes a conservative agenda. Yes, I’ll listen to their perspective but chances are leaning heavily against them. Why? I have found the many, if not the majority, of the issues conservatives push for are geared towards making their OWN SELVES, meaning individuals who are like them (socially, economically, religiously, educationally, etc), more successful while simply blaming every other group for their own struggles. How many times have you heard the argument “If my parents/grandparents/aunts/uncles/etc were able to come to this country and pull themselves up by the bootstraps and were able to make it?”

                I just have to get it off my chest- this whole conservative agenda (“If I/my parents/my grandparents/etc were able to work hard and make it, so can everyone else”) sounds GREAT on paper, but it completely ignores the history of the vast majority of the American people. Maybe your grandma and grandpa were able to build their family a nice lil’ shack and raise their children off of Lake Ontario, but my grandma and grandpa were too busy running from dogs and being blasted with high power water hoses while simply trying to make their way to their low-wage job in order to support their family. My great-grandparents were too busy fighting for their land in Oklahoma, being called all types of names, forced to become homeless, and facing brutality, because someone else’s kinfolk were “working hard and pulling themselves up by their bootstraps”. Yes, this history has indeed shaped many of the issues we deal with as a generation today (called the “trickle-down” effect). But I digress…

                When will the conservative agenda represent individuals who DON’T have a similar background? I work extra-hard, having a full-time job so I can pay tuition in order to put myself thorugh graduate school, but many conservatives consider me “lazy” because I’m receiving federal assistance through student loans. Why? I know of single mothers who are forced to raise children on their own. These women bust their a** to take care of their kids, maintain a household, earn an education for themselves and work so their children can receive quality education…yet they’re victimized and dogged out because they receive federal assistance? I use these examples because I hear stories and arguments as such from those who support the conservative agenda, and I can’t help but to call bulls*** on those arguments, but I digress again.

                I don’t consider myself a Democrat; politically, I consider myself independent. However, I will most likely vote along the lines of the democratic agenda. Until the conservative agenda and party begins to represent the issues that I, as a minority woman, have to deal with due to the historical development of the country, you won’t be receiving my vote or support.

        • GypsyCurl

          Jeez you guys are projecting all over this guy. At least he went to an HBCU. Now going to an HBCU aint good enough. You gotta be all on the frontline.

          Everyone has their role in life. I get mad when I dont see people doing what I deem as “making the world better”. But I have to remember that we all have a role in life and someone may be more suited for donating money than being on the front lines.

          Point: Herman Cain may not be MLK but he did more for Blacks by going to college and having a career than Negros who steal, kill, sell drugs and go to prison.

          • http://www.greenafrodiva.com Green Afro Diva

            “Point: Herman Cain may not be MLK but he did more for Blacks by going to college and having a career than Negros who steal, kill, sell drugs and go to prison.”

            If that’s all it takes for us to rise up and overcome….

          • RG

            That sounds like when guys say: “Well at least I take care of my kids.”…Seriously? That’s the benchmark. If just having a career is the goal, we’re definitely in trouble. Smh.

            • DQ

              Man I am SO glad I wasn’t the only one thinking this.

              • http://www.Hollywood4Cain.com Chris Conlee

                What’s wrong with having a career? With a career and a stable income, plus good conservative ideals, one can raise a healthy, positive, and prosperous family with an eye towards the future. I don’t get this negativity towards Mr. Cain.

                • RG

                  The negativity wasn’t necessarily directed at Cain on the comment. My point is when did simply having a career become making it. As for Cain, for me, not particpating in the Movement because his father told him to play it safe is a deficient in MY BOOK. Everyone is entitled to their own litmus test for leadership. I won’t dispute his business acumen or success because it speaks for itself. But in a President, I want a certain level of awareness or empathy, especially someone growing up in the African American struggle. Success and consciousness are not mutually exclusive. I (so far) am successfully navigating the white corporate environment without sacrificing my consciousness and still be able to empathize with the struggle. Clarence and Herm arent the only models for fiscal black success.

                  • Sula

                    But in a President, I want a certain level of awareness or empathy, especially someone growing up in the African American struggle.

                    +1

                  • http://www.Hollywood4Cain.com Chris Conlee

                    Fair enough. I obviously don’t understand the black experience, and it would be totally dishonest to suggest that I ever could. What I can do is support Mr. Cain for president on the merits of his success as a business man and an exemplary communicator, and I just hope more people do too. He speaks to my worldview. Your mileage may vary.

                    • RG

                      Fair enough.

                    • MzPW

                      …and Obama speaks to mine. I think we’ve found some common ground here (being able to identify and support candidates based upon those who speak to our understanding).

                  • GypsyCurl

                    The comparison was between someone who is successful versus someone who is not (like someone who will murder, etc).

                    There is a difference between being a productive member of society and being a destructive member.

                    I havent listened to Cain’s political opinion but I am not going to automatically degrade hom because he didnt stand in line with MLK……which is the basis for my initial comment and hopefully my other comments will clarify my point.

                    @RG: you are focusing on the wrong thing (career). My statememt was a comparison that highlights the fact you shouldnt judge Cain based off what you think he did or didnt do at MH or how active he was in the civil rights movement. Maybe he thought getting a higher education as a way to fight. Killing, stealing, and drug dealing are not ways to fight. And that means getting an education (and career), instead of stealing, is the better goal in comparison.

                    • RG

                      i guess I should have started off with this. Where did anybody mention killing, stealing, or drug dealing as the alternative to Cain’s experience. I’m curious how you choose the most extreme end of the spectrum to juxtapose with Cain’s business successes. The proper comparison is similarly situated HBCU students in his era that chose to participate in the movement. In that case, the argument becomes which way was the best way to “fight.” We’re assuming Cain wanted to “fight” but that would be speculation on either side of the equation. As I stated downthread, what is even more ironic is the fact that he probably benefitted from the struggle of his classmates that did choose to sacrifice and participate, but now has the nerve to talk about black folk being brainwashed. Running for President, Ima need for him to have some historical perspective.

            • GypsyCurl

              “If that’s all it takes for us to rise up and overcome” – I am not talking about an end all to be all for “overcoming”. I am responding to the criticism that he did not march during the civil rights movement even though he went to Morehouse. Many people didnt march, which may include your parents but IDK. Neither my parents or grandparents participated.

              Also, people can make a difference without being on the frontlines, such as getting an education for MLK and others fought.

              “That sounds like when guys say: “Well at least I take care of my kids.”…Seriously?” – No, it’s not the same. And it all depends on what you consider “taking care of his kid” means. He could be someone who provides for his kids and spends time with them. He could be someone who doesnt see his kids but thinks that making child support payments is enough.

              • RG

                My point is “taking care of my kids” isnt exceptional. You’re supposed to do that. I dont give awards out for doing the expected. Which is where I place “having a career”? Minimum, at least in my book. That’s not exceptional to me…and that’s not aimed at only Cain. Of course in this economy where the unemployed have only themselves to blame I can see where you would place just having a career in the life achievment category.

          • A Woman’s Eyes

            The way I interpreted RG’s comment is that Herman Cain building a career does not give him special Negro status because he did what he was supposed to do — which is what millions of Black men are doing.

            People who declare they take care of their kids are people who want applause and a sardine for doing what they’re supposed to do.

            If Hillary Clinton ran for president under “She did more for women than sluts, hos and tricks” the response would be a lot of “what the…?!”s.

      • Rog

        You raise a good point about looking at history in retrospect and that’s a side of the coin I hadn’t consider. Still I do find pause with the fact that he was on the Board of Trustees which means he had to have some insight into what was going on around him and yet he chose to lay low (which like you said it’s easy to say in hindsight he should have risked his life like everyone else).

        Also I don’t think it should be assumed that getting involved in the CRM automatically meant sit in’s and the potential for jail time, he could have handed out fliers or fried fish at a fish fry (they probably had those back then right?….I’d think so) SOMETHING.

        • Rog

          *Breaking News* We have verified proof of Hermain Cain attending the rallys

          http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_rEavNNGUfM#t=29s

          • http://www.twitter.com/diva_magnifique ChaoticDiva

            *dead*

        • http://twitter.com/tylerg_thomas tgtaggie

          I’m pretty sure HBCU’s and fish frys go as far back as the early 1900s. lol.

      • Kamala Jones

        @milesfan79, you’re telling the truth! I’ve heard Jesse say the same thing. Also, I’m not sure about Morehouse student involvement in the Civil Rights Movement but I’m sure Morehouse was no Howard University when it came to student involvement in that movement.

        • http://GenevaGirl.net Geneva Girl

          According to Samuel L. Jackson who was a student at the time (can’t believe he is that old), there was a lot going on at Moorehouse and they even sent buses to take students to events. It seemed like you have to actively avoid activism at that school during that era.

      • http://www.twitter.com/IluminatiNYC Todd

        Truth. I’m not a huge fan of Herman Cain, but I gave him a pass on that one. Around the Civil Rights era, there were about 15-20 million Black people. Anyone who believes that EVERY SINGLE ONE of those people were “down for the cause” needs to check out this bridge I have for sale. Also, there were people who were broadly supportive of the Movement who didn’t go to every single march and protest. As much as we talk about the 60s, even the 60s weren’t the 60s, if you get my drift.

        There are plenty of good reasons to be against Herman Cain (his half-baked Tea Party remix of Libertarianism being among them). Him not marching in the Civil Rights Movement isn’t among them.

        • http://GenevaGirl.net Geneva Girl

          A good reason is that his 9-9-9 gimmick doesn’t wash. It would raise only about half the revenue of our current tax system. If he worked at the Fed and can’t even run the numbers, he shouldn’t be in charge of the American economy. 9-9-9 sounds like a coupon special they ran at Godfathers not an economic plan.

        • RG

          I feel you, but college is an incubator for change. Especially back then. Nowadays its a lot different. The activism is almost nonexistent. But back then? At an HBCU? I have to believe that a majority of students were immersed in the CRM. I didnt go to an HBCU, but I had plenty of graduate student friends from HBCUs who let me know what their experiences were like. Activism is intended to be part of the culture. To have attended one of the preeminent HBCUs in that era and make a conscious decision to stand mute is a serious deficiency in my book. Of course, I guess the flipside is he wouldn’t have brought us such wonderful pizza had he taken another route…thank you Godfather.

          • http://verysmartbrothas.com Panama Jackson

            I went to Morehouse and one of my professors, Dr. Clark White, was in school during the Civil Rights Movement era. He said (and I ain’t reallyproud of this) that while there were definitely a lot of students on campus who were down for the cause, there were definitely a significant number who just wanted to “make it” (whatever that means). I think the Jesse Jackson anecdote makes sense and holds true.

            I’m pretty sure that lots of HBCU students, especially at the elite ones, were told to go there to advance the whole “our own kind of people” agenda. And I’m not sure a lot of them could do that getting actively involved in marches etc. Hindsight is a motherf*cker.

            I dont fault him for that because hell, lots of folks wanted nothing to do with that movement or were silent supporters because they ain’t want to die. Even at HBCUs. Everybody at every HBCU wasn’t actively involved. You can believe that.

            • DQ

              If it is so innocuous for him not to be involved in the CRM, why didn’t he just say so?

              Why even offer a story about being too young or having a sick relative? It kinda feels like his subconscious was telling on him.

              • http://www.Hollywood4Cain.com Chris Conlee

                So what if it was? It was a gotcha question from a white liberal who was trying to put him on the spot. We’ve all done things in our past (or more appropriately, perhaps NOT done things in our past) that we wished we’d done differently. The point is, he’s made a tremendous success for himself and his family through hard work and dedication. Yes, maybe he wishes after all these years that he’d been more active in that particular area. Maybe he sees this presidential run as his chance to stand up and make a difference.

                • DQ

                  A question about his early political life is a gotcha question? LOL, he didn’t know for 40+ years that he was a bystander to the Civil Rights Movement? Come on. That’s not a gotcha, Cain was just sleep walking. He should have a canned answer ready for that one. I blame his handlers as much as the man himself for that mis-step.

                  Perhaps I missed the part where he expressed regret that he wasn’t more involved in the Civil Rights Movement. I looked for it briefly but didn’t see it? Is this speculation on your part? He seems fine with having been on the sidelines.

                  • http://www.Hollywood4Cain.com Chris Conlee

                    Purely speculation on my part, because it seems to be a big issue for many on this board. You could be right; he might be perfectly fine with his actions during that period and so am I. My only point was, if you take offense at his actions, make sure you know all the facts. Perhaps, just perhaps, he would have done things differently now. Or not. All I really care about is who’s the best person to lead this country. And right now Mr. Cain has my vote.

            • http://uphereoncloud9.wordpress.com Wu Young, Agent of M.E.

              I still think Cain is a cartoon but I don’t feel any more or less supportive of him. He could have easily pulled a Grandad Freeman and called himself a “Civil Rights Legend” when he really was not. For a real life example think of all of the Frenchmen who claimed to have been in the Maquis or the resistance during WWII when they really just kept their heads down. The sick relative thing sounds mad questionable too but I know damn well everyone wasn’t out soldiering during that time period.

            • Corey

              Clark is a beast. Last I talked to him he was semi retired and an adjuct at UT Chatt. Man the students in his class there looked shell shocked. I got serious doubts about the upcoming generations.

          • SweetSass

            “Nowadays its a lot different. The activism is almost nonexistent.”

            UMMMMM….. No. Just because you don’t do it, doesn’t mean it doesn’t exist.

            I was an undergrad from 2002-2006. I protested the war in Afganistan/Iraq. I protested for lower tuition/tuition freeze (I went to a Big Ten state school.) I organized student of color groups and helped them from losing their funding. I organized protests against national speakers who came to campus to spread an anti-affirmative action stance. I helped out the teaching assistant strike by doing a class walkout. And every election I went dorm to dorm, door to door AND out in the community trying to register voters including on how to enfrancise former convicts and the homeless. I was on student council AND involved in student of color activism at the same time full time while going to school fulltime. After I graduated I did this full time for a nonprofit.

            What irks me… is folks like you… who stayed up in their dorms playing Xbox… give me side eye, put on their iPod headphones walking past me in the cold trying to table register people to vote. And now you wanna say what????

            Later on you wanna say no campus activism happened… NINJA PLEASE!!! You were asleep!

            • RG

              You made a lot of assumptions in your statement. My entire educational and professional career has involved activism. But you didnt know that. I hate to break it to you, but you werent the only one doing the laundry list of things you ran off. My point is as I was actually participating, I saw the lack of interest, and its even worse now. And for the record, I went to a Big Ten school too.

              • k-steez

                right? how she just gonna throw you in a “folks like you” pile? lol!

        • http://www.styleillusions.com WIP

          Agreed. Truth be told, he could have lied and said he marched a couple of times or attended a few rallies. Who would have known?

        • Sula

          Him not marching in the Civil Rights Movement isn’t among them.

          But shouldn’t that be left to the individual to decide? Like RG mentioned above, *I* (emphasis on I) need for my president to be a lot more aware about social issues and have much more empathy towards his/her fellow human beings than that. And according to me, not participating in the civil rights movement while it was all happening is a BIG no-no. Simple.

      • RG

        You’re right. This sh*t happens now. I stopped dating this chick because she didnt vote in ’08. Initially my family told me I was extreme, but my perspective was this chick is 28 y/o, black with a Masters Degree and she didnt even participate in the most significant presidential elections probably ever. Just turned me off. But to your point, black folk today are sitting on the sidelines, so I guess we shouldnt be surprised.

        • Kema

          OMG! My bf at the time seemed to not care and didnt vote either. He lost a lot of points with me and we broke up shortly. I’m not even that politically charged.

    • Mena

      I simply ask, if given the circumstances, how many of us would have participated in the civil rights movement? We can all sit here and talk about what we would have done, and I know that a lot of us would have participated, but it took heavy balls (and no fear of losing your life) to participate. If he were running as a democrat, do you think that the question would have even been asked of him? This question was thrown at him as a way of proving his lack of “blackness” to somehow show that he is a “puppet” for the Tea Party. The media played the race card quite well on this one. Let’s just call a spade a spade.

      • http://www.twitter.com/IluminatiNYC Todd

        Preach! Though people seem to forget that Obama’s lack of ties to the “Movement” were used against him early on, especially by the older generation. A lot of older people were saying some ish against Obama in the early going because of that. The problem is that the Movement hasn’t moved on, and that isn’t a good thing considering the new threats we have to deal with.

      • DQ

        ****If he were running as a democrat, do you think that the question would have even been asked of him?****

        Perhaps not… but only because for almost any Black Democrat who is a public servant, it would be a softball question pitched underhand. It’s an easy question to answer when you stand on the right side of history… I wouldn’t assume that the fight for “equality” and “justice” within the Civil Rights movement belonged exclusively to Democrats. I don’t blame the pitcher, I blame the batter.

        • Mena

          “It’s an easy question to answer when you stand on the right side of history…” It is SO MUCH EASIER for any of us to say this now in the year 2011 but honestly, are you telling me that this wouldn’t have been a hard decision for you then? You can’t answer that question b/c none of us were there. I don’t blame the batter, I blame the people who watch the game and don’t see the game for what it truly is…simply a game that was played to make a person seem less than.

          • DQ

            You’re moving the goal posts a little here don’t you think? I mean it’s not about whether it was a hard decision to make back then… it’s about the decision he made.

            Let’s be clear, he had every right NOT to participate. What he doesn’t have the right to, is the expectation that he should get a pass on discussing his past and his politics while running for President. There was a perfectly legitimate question to ask (about Civil Rights) because it dealt with both the past and politics, and I would ask it of anyone. It was only a gotcha question because apparently Cain felt he needed to explain his non-participation.

            • Mena

              http://badgerherald.com/oped/2011/10/09/odonnell_wrong_to_qu.php
              He discussed what happened and then tried to move the conversation onward. I think for anyone to ask why you did or didn’t do X,Y, and Z when you were young is pushing you to answer the question “incorrectly.”

              • DQ

                Clinton drug use (did he inhale or didn’t he) became a topic of discussion when he ran for President

                Bush II and whether or not he showed up for his National Guard Duty became a topic of discussion when he ran for President

                Kerry’s participation in peace rallies became a topic for discussion when he ran for President

                McCain’s involvement in the Keating 5 as well as his wild years in the Navy became a topic of discussion when he ran for President

                Obama’s entire child hood became a topic of discussion when he ran for President

                No one set any special trap for Cain, he hung himself trying to explain why he didn’t participate, and contradicted his own accounts (regarding his age). Journalilst are SUPPOSED to ask about the contradictions and inaccuracies. Politicians push narratives, journalists are supposed to push truth.

                • Sula

                  I see you preaching in here today! iLike. :)

                • Mena

                  I just can’t agree with you on this. At the end of it all, this question was asked to simply challenge his blackness not if he is fit to serve this country. There was no truth finding in the question. We can just agree to disagree.

                  • DQ

                    We can agree to disagree (here in particular) because your assertion that “this question was asked simply to challenge his blackness” is speculation, not fact. It is equally possible that he was asking the question because of Cain’s locale and age during the CRM. It’s not unreasonable to assume that he DID participate.

                    The only thing we know for certain is that he, Cain, gave an answer to that question that contradicted his own account. There was nothing nefarious about O’Donnell following up on that contradiction that doesn’t come from our own personal projections.

  • http://twitter.com/wavecapwillis Wave Cap Willis

    Hi VSB Family!

    First, let me answer Champ’s question with a link to a Paul Krugman article: http://www.pkarchive.org/trade/company.html

    Here’s a quote from the article that particularly applies to Cain (and, for that matter, Romney):

    “It’s not that economists are smarter than businesspeople. They simply think a different way. Economists deal with the closed system of a national economy, whereas executives live in the open-system world of business.”

    Second, it’s with great pleasure that I invite you to take a glimpse at The Married Bachelor, the comedy web series for which I’m a producer and writer. The series is about Al & Brenda, a newlywed Black couple that negotiates the tension between their married life and the carefree lifestyle of their single friends.

    The following link will take you to The Married Bachelor‘s Kickstarter page, where the creator A. Marquis Smalls (who isn’t me, by the way) explains his motivations behind the series. Enjoy. And please spread the word!

    The Kickstarter link: http://www.kickstarter.com/projects/424979093/the-married-bachelor

    Cheers,
    The Same Guy Who Brought You Wave Cap Willis and Boron the Negromancer

    • http://twitter.com/_boron Boron the Negromancer

      ^ What he said.

    • A Woman’s Eyes

      Congratulations Wave Cap Willie!

  • http://twitter.com/tylerg_thomas tgtaggie

    I think he is a mixture between Uncle Ruckus and a Real Motherf*cker. He got some respect from me b/c he put with the white people bull**it while walking up the corp. ladder.

    Also, did the fact that he’s a black republican influence your opinion about him before you even heard what he had to say?

    Not really. He is pretty cool compared to the rest of the clowns vying for the republican nomination. History shows that the modern Republican party (1990 on) loves to run regional candidates for president. So guys like Mitt Romney or Jon Huntsman who probably could win the general election is basically unelectable in the primaries. B/c people in the south vote on issues (like the candidate’s religion for example) not pertaining to his capacity to govern.

    I actually think Herman Cain is jockeying for position. B/c the republican party probably think they can split the black vote if he is on the ticket.

  • DQ

    He is Great Grandfather Ruckus, progenitor of all Ruckii. He is so delusional and so far to the right, I fully well expect the man to report himself to Homeland Security as being suspicious.

    The Tea Party loves Cain, the same way you love a jump off… (i.e. they don’t). Oh you’ll invite a bust down to a drunken evening of bed room chicanery, but you don’t actually want to be stuck with them forever. The Jump Off occupies down time, and is shown the door once they served their purpose.

    And what is that purpose? Herman Cain is the “best friend that’s black” that proves the Tea Party isn’t racist. He allows them (for now) to claim that they actually disliked Obama for his policies and not his blackness, even though they disliked him before he ever set policy.

    • nillalatte

      “I fully well expect the man to report himself to Homeland Security as being suspicious.”

      LOL! :D

    • http://www.greenafrodiva.com Green Afro Diva

      He sure knows how to play his (jumpoff) position well don’t he?

      • DQ

        I am honestly one Long Island Iced Tea away from considering the real possibility that Herman Cain is actually an Armstrong Williams clone. Because they both played the political jump off position…

        …and played it well.

  • Kamala Jones

    I’ll likely vote for Obama but it gets on my last nerve when Black people act like if Obama isn’t reelected we (Black folks) are going to be in a worse position. I doubt that would happen to us and if it would, we’d survive it. But, getting back to Herman Cain, I think I’d have more fun hanging out with him than Obama. Herman Cain has a PhD in Black barbershop ig-nun-ce :-)

    • nillalatte

      Kamala, we’ll ALL be in a worse situation if Obama isn’t re-elected because many of the policies that he has been able to get support for and passed the Republicans will attempt with all their might to reverse. 4 years wasted? Not if I can help it.

      Clinton had the same thing happen to him and I predicted it would happen to Obama, and it did. Clinton got into office with a Democrat controlled Congress. Man, he was signing legislation so fast his pen was leaving a burn streak! Two years into his Presidency mid-term elections came, folks got all scared because he was actually doing something, and they voted in Republicans which created a deadlock. Not to mention the issues with Lewinsky that mucked the waters while Ken Starr politically beat him down.

      Same shyt happened to Obama. It is not enough to be energized during Presidential elections, but also in mid-term elections so that the momentum can actually continue forward. Can you imagine where we’d be now if in the mid-terms Democrats continued to control the Congress?

      That’s not to say Obama didn’t realize this either. He did. That’s why he hit the ground running upon election. He knew his time to make significant changes was limited.

      • http://www.Hollywood4Cain.com Chris Conlee

        So let me get this straight. You’re advocating for government handouts, instead of the hard work and personal responsibility espoused by Mr. Herman Cain? Is that the best way to get blacks advanced in society? I think not. Unbelievable to me that that point of view still festers. Class warfare has truly taken hold, thrown about recklessly by the likes of Obama. People, he’s driven into a the biggest fiscal disaster in 100 years, which is why America stopped him in his tracks during the midterms. Expect and even bigger wave election in 2012. Obama is a disaster of biblical scale for the foundations of this country.

        • Shawn

          The governments job is not to enforce personal responsibility, but to implement strategies that better the society. This strategy of if you make me president I will do nothing makes no sense to me. If your plan is to do nothing, what am i electing you for?

        • DQ

          You know what trips me out about conservatives… they criticize what they advocate.

          I know someone who had to work hard to get where he got to, who studied, got an education, worked to make his community better, was responsible, and didn’t get by on his father’s name or hand outs… his name is President Barack Obama… and look at how much respect he gets for it. You aren’t fooling anyone.

          • http://www.Hollywood4Cain.com Chris Conlee

            Mad props to Mr. Obama. It’s takes a great mind to achieve at Harvard, and he did that. Unfortunately for Mr. Obama, he’s a socialist and a known communist sympathizer who’s out of touch with the majority of Americans. Van Jones had to resign because of his communist preaching, and President Obama’s true beliefs are becoming more and more evident with every class warfare speech he gives. Americans are still prideful people, who want to work hard. Who want to achieve financial success. Who deep down know that it isn’t a crime to make money. Mr Obama isn’t the right person for this economic disaster we’re in.

            • http://www.greenafrodiva.com Green Afro Diva

              I knew it!!! Your colors are truly showing. damn, the man can’t even be called President Obama. Put on ignore

            • DQ

              I’m beginning to suspect that you probably actually work for a campaign or an advocacy group (which for the record, is fine). All the candidates (at least the serious ones) have tech teams that troll major message boards to try to get their message out to voters. I myself, have seen both Democratic and Republican candidates do it… on numerous sites.

              If you really want to influence voters however, at least on any site with meaningful political discourse, you are going to have to embrace (what has been a sort of Kryptonite for Republicans the last 2 decades) the idea that you have to argue with facts. Not slogans, talking points, and catch phrases… facts. And facts, generally don’t support much of what you’re saying.

              Example: It’s fine to say we need to be more business friendly, but as a point out in another comment, many corporations aren’t paying any taxes… what more do they need? If you say we need to be more business friendly, be specific… come with facts. If you can’t (and I’m betting you won’t) don’t blame us for ignoring your message.

              • http://www.Hollywood4Cain.com Chris Conlee

                Nope. Just a dude who has a serious man crush on Herman Cain. I’m an ex soldier and a motion picture editor working in VERY liberal Hollywood, CA. I haven’t been so excited by a candidate since Ronald Reagan ran. He’s the first candidate I can talk openly about supporting in Hollywood, ’cause the liberals around me don’t know how to respond. LOL! I don’t have the facts and figures you crave. I guess I’m falling slightly prey to the “hope and change” fever too. But in this case, I hang my hat simply on the fact that Mr. Cain has tremendous success spanning nearly 5 decades. I think he’s the man with the plan.

                • The Other Jerome

                  —”He’s the first candidate I can talk openly about supporting in Hollywood, ’cause the liberals around me don’t know how to respond”–

                  Huge LOL. They just freeze up eh?

                • DQ

                  Oh ok, well you are repeating his talking points (which again, I can’t really criticize too heavily because I think every candidate’s supporters do that to some extent).

              • LMNOP

                Really? I would LOVE a job like that… how do you get them?

          • MzPW

            THANK.
            YOU.

        • A Woman’s Eyes

          Chris Conlee,

          That’s the second time you used the words “government handouts”.

          Care to elaborate on what you are labeling as government handouts, because I don’t know that I’m seeing your point, yet.

          • http://www.Hollywood4Cain.com Chris Conlee

            Let me ask a question to answer your question: what do you expect from your government? Do you expect them to get out of your way, so you can make your own progress in life, or do you expect them to offer you things to make your life easier, at the expense of “the 1%s” who are money grubbing, greedy bastards?

            • A Woman’s Eyes

              I’ll ask again politely. In everything discussed in the comments section, what are the topics that fit your definition of “government handouts”?

              By directly answering my question, your earlier point would be clear.

        • nillalatte

          I don’t think you got anything of what I wrote straight AT ALL. I never said a word about advocating government handouts instead of working hard and taking personal responsibility. Where the hell was the personal responsibility for the banking industry when they were silly drunk with their bad home loans on false securities?

          WRONG on the biggest fiscal disaster in 100 years! That shyt started with BUSH! There was a SURPLUS when Clinton left office. BUSH put us in a deficit and 2 F’n wars in just 8 years. Ask anyone you like, it takes HARD WORK to build surplus and BUSH blew that in just 8 years like a drunken sailor at port spending like no tomorrow.

          I suggest you read up on some of this before you come at me with some bullshyt. I’ve lived most of what you read in the history books on Ford, Carter, Reagan, GHW Bush, Clinton & GW Bush and I ain’t one to be following nobody blindly. BTW, I have real issues with any one group of people in America wanting to “advance” themselves when we’re talking about how economic issues effect all Americans.

          • http://www.Hollywood4Cain.com Chris Conlee

            Actually, it began under Carter with the community reinvestment act, which notably tried to put more disadvantaged people into homes. That then led to banks finding new ways to push bad paper. When banks were then allowed to sell their crappy loans to investment bundlers, and those crappy bundles were improperly ‘rated’ by the rating agencies, and then insured by multiple people thru AIG, et al, the system went totally freakin’ crazy. The largest deregulation occurred under Bill Clinton, by the way, granted with a republican congress. There’s plenty of blame to go around. And yes, there needs to be some oversight of the financial industry, obviously. With those cats making and pushing that much money around, there’s lots of motivation for cheating and lying.

            Bush’s administration actually DID try to reign in Fannie and Freddie, but was denied by Barney Frank who’s boyfriend was running the place.

            Also, keep in mind, that under Bush’s tenure we suffered the largest attack on U.S. soil since Pearl Harbor, which necessitated much currency and market manipulation to keep the economy from tanking. It wasn’t done perfectly, to be sure. I’m no fan of Bush, ’cause he did spend money like a drunken sailor, but he’s not 100% to blame for the ills that befallen our economy of late.

            I’m not such a zealot that I cannot see the benefit of some government oversight and currency manipulation. In general, however, I believe government will always strive to get larger and take a bigger role in trying to control our lives if we let it. Therefore I vote for candidates who at least say they will try to reign in government excess.

        • MzPW

          Once again, the “handouts” arguments surfaces. What conservatives DON’T realize is that there are many, many, MANY people who are busting their a**es to make it in today’s society and that little $7.75/hour paycheck simply ain’t cutting it.

          Yes, there are folks of all backgrounds who try to abuse the system. Let’s out them- point them out and cut them off. But are we going to punish the thousands of others who are genuinely busting their a**es to make it because they need a bit of extra help? Sorry, but unless you can prove that the majority of people receiving some type of assistance are abusing programs, your argument doesn’t work. (And NO, that’s not saying the current federal support systems are perfect- we all know they structurally need work. But let’s stop blaming the victims for their situations…)

          • http://www.Hollywood4Cain.com Chris Conlee

            I agree. In a supposedly rich country, we need to have a social safety net for the truly needy. There is, however, plenty of evidence to suggest that government activity in certain areas has had negative and unintended consequences. Take for example the cost of college. It’s argued in some circles the cost of tuition started to rise exponentially when government got in the business of offering low interest / no-interest loans. Once that happened, colleges started upping their tuitions because folks could get those loans to pay for it. Prior to that happening, people had to pay as they went, and colleges had to compete for those dollars, or else they would have lost students altogether. I’m just saying, we need to be smart how we spend our tax dollars. And we need to make government officials accountable on both sides of the isle.

        • http://polibohoglam.tumblr.com/ PoliBohoGlam

          When people start advocating an end to corporate welfare, I will entertain a conversation about public welfare.

          Governments exist to support the well-being of humans, not corporate institutions. The government hand outs I’ve witnessed to huge businesses are much more disturbing than any $40 monthly food stamp allotment.

      • CurlyTop

        Nilla, this is one of “Darelyst” comments I’ve seen thus far on Obama’s leadership.
        ” It is not enough to be energized during Presidential elections, but also in mid-term elections so that the momentum can actually continue forward.”

        I don’t understand why people think the President is God or in control of the United States (…under the Bush Administration tho…). I you vote for Prez, congrats but you aren’t doing your job. Until individuals are willing to vote in the mid-term elections or any other elections happening in their state/county/city/town then they aren’t excersing their power as a citizen. But, I’ve been good about not being too political lately so I’m going to back out now.

        • DQ

          **** Until individuals are willing to vote in the mid-term elections or any other elections happening in their state/county/city/town then they aren’t excersing their power as a citizen. ****

          Worth repeating