Last weekend, a few relatives and I gathered at my great aunt’s house to eat dinner and spend seven hours telling the exact same stories we told the last time we saw each other. As the youngest person in the room, my job was to do what any youngest person in a room full of loved and respected elders is usually supposed to do: listen, fetch cans of Pepsi, fact check in the most non-condescending way possible, and get teased for my reliance on my phone.
Anyway, midway through one of my dad’s inappropriately (but intentionally) hilarious recollections about New Castle, Pa (where most of my dad’s side of the family is from), something dawned on me:
“I’ve finally been here more than half as long as he has.”
You see, my last birthday officially made me more than half of my dad’s current age. Why is this important? Well, this means that I’m now officially older than he was when he had me, and this realization was quite jarring. Now, when I look at those grainy photo albums where my afro-clad dad is holding a three-day-old me in his arms, I’m looking at a man a few months younger than me. The man who looked so big, so proud, and so, well, so how a man is supposed to look hadn’t been on the planet as long as I have now, but I don’t think I measure up.
This particular brand of age-related angst is far from unique, though. In the last two weeks, both the Wall Street Journal — Kay S. Hymowitz’s “Where Have The Good Men Gone?” — and Slate — Mark Regnerus’s “Sex Is Cheap: Why young men have the upper hand in bed, even when they’re failing in life” — published widely read and discussed pieces that each contained the same latent premise: Men just aren’t growing up the way they used to.
From “The Extended Adolescence of (Some) American Men” – Sister Toldja’s examination of “Where Have The Good Men Gone”:
…I think Hymowitz’s examples of the boyish cultural tastes of pre-adult males, the “Animal House”, extended college lifestyle and dating behaviors (using women as “estrogen play things”) make a stronger statement. The longer these young men extend their boyhoods, the less prepared they will be when they do choose to enter adult romances, marriages and when they become parents.
Although I don’t possess most of the characteristics each of these articles cite as synonymous with “extended adolescence,” I do believe my singleness (“singleness” in the census sense, at least) and childlessness contributes to my feeling, well, less manly than I think I’m supposed to, and there’s no remedy waiting for me over the horizon. I still consider marriage and fatherhood to be the most prominent markers of adulthood, but “professional and creative success” remains at the top of my personal needs hierarchy.
I know this isn’t an “either or” proposition. It’s quite possible to have both the traditional “grown” marker and the contemporary ideal at the same time. But while I’d like to eventually have a family, it just isn’t a deep-rooted need for me in the same way it was for my father, my grandfather, and other men like them.
Actually, let me rephrase that. I don’t know what was going through my dad’s head the day before he found out my mom was pregnant with me. In fact, I don’t even know what was in his head the day he took those grainy pictures. While I’ve assigned a certain nobility, a certain maturity to him, this is a presumptuous act. For all I know, he could have been experiencing the same age-related angst; wondering if he was ready to be an adult and doubting whether he’ll ever be able to be grown in the same way his father was. Who knows?
I do know, though, that I’ve been more places on Earth at this point in my life than my dad had when he took those grainy pictures. I have more experiences. More memories. More embarrassments. More anecdotes. More stories. More pains. More time. And, while I’m not taller (My dad and I are the exact same height), when you add weight to the equation, I’m definitely bigger than he was.
But, I just don’t feel as grown as he looked, and I’m beginning to wonder if I ever will.
—The Champ
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RAWR!
I will die a happy person. Peace, love and chicken grease.
After reading this post, the first thing that popped into my head was Amanda Diva’s “ManChild” video.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CSczhRdsHZs
society is changing…
…and i’m high. this was beautiful for some reason
Have you been smoking that Charlie Sheen? Y’know that ish is deadly, right??
*iDied
Smoking that Charlie Sheen? Yo, I’m not even gonna lie, I’m gonna steal that. LOL.
i’m honestly clueless as to what you’re talking about, but i don’t really know many drug jokes or lingo. i just do what my trusted friends say is ok lol
not that i do any drugs besides the herbals…not into that extra wild ish
Charlie Sheen said he was on Charlie Sheen and it would make your face fall off.
LOL word?
Girl you gotta be bi-winning. Charlie don’t want his goddess’ smoking. Only he can have that tiger blood. lol
I’m just teasing you a lil’ bit…if you were to watch his interview from last night, you’d understand…whatever dude is on, trust me…you want to stay as far away from that narcotic(s) as possible. lol
got it. that sounds entertaining, might have to look that interview up
I’m not high and I thought it was beautiful too.
ok cool, good to know lol. great writing, champ
I wish I was high and it’s beautiful
in that Happy Feet, August Rush sort of way
For Some reason I read this with the voice over from wonder years voice in my head lol. Nice post. I feel the same way when I think of my age, technically im “grown”. But when I look at what my mom or aunt etc were doing at my age, 27 (married with kids) I coukd not even fathom that for my life right now.
“the voice over from wonder years” …there will never be better vocals for storytelling to me
Morgan Freeman. At least for me.
Dennis Haysbert.
Oprah Winfrey.
Gilbert Godfrey.
Oh, wait… o_O
Lol… Whaa no James Earl Jones?
Nah. Paul Winfield. City Confidential will never be the same.
You can never go wrong with James Earl
Charlie Murphy.
You can’t top Morgan Freeman. Morgan Freeman has been God…twice.
And if you disagree with him, he’ll slap you and call you a swamp runnin’ n*****.
I always imagined God’s voice sounded like Morgan Freeman
He’s old enough to have that credibility.
Plus we all know he was Jesus’ geography teacher. Check the yearbook.
YES! Me too!
As far as coming of age stories go, yea the voice from Wonder Years wins for me.
Did you guys know that the guy who did the voiceovers for Wonder Years played the goofy burglar from Home Alone… You know, the tall curly haired one that WASN’T Joe Pesci. #truestory.
yea, daniel stern
My parents were at the cusp of that college-premium thing. They too finished grad school before they got married and created the joy that is me. I’m grown, got a coupla degrees on the wall, a mortgage, a fancy car and a 401k to show for it, but it seems perfectly normaly (within the space of MY family) that I should still be single and childless.
I just had a visit from my parents last week, and while they marveled at how I was a fully-functioning, completely self sufficient “adult” at the age of 22, I began to come to a similar revelation as the champ. When I was younger (keep your jokes to yourself) I always thought that by the magic wand of time alone, I would be transformed into an adult that somehow mimicked what I saw in my parents everyday. Now I’m realizing that they are more impressive than I ever gave them credit for, and that nothing but having to care for another life will give me that “Grown Up” feeling.
“Now I’m realizing that they are more impressive than I ever gave them credit for, and that nothing but having to care for another life will give me that “Grown Up” feeling.”
i didnt address this in the post, but i wonder if that’s the “right way” to feel? i mean, maybe past generations were rushed/pressured into situations they werent ready for, and maybe the way things are now are the way they’re supposed to be
i didnt address this in the post, but i wonder if that’s the “right way” to feel?
I personally don’t think it’s the “right way” to feel… We can be impressed by what our parents accomplished without having to use the same markers to define our adulthood. I have a big problem with the “where are the good men gone” article because it associates a definition of “grown-ups” with certain markers that should be universal… and adulthood just doesn’t lend itself to be thought in “universal” terms…
Well when I talk about knowledge, it goes beyond child rearing acumen (I have six years or so before I’m behind on that count); I’m talking about the fact that no matter what problem I encounter in my life -taxes, love, bickering friends, applying to schools, etc. I don’t get the feeling that they *felt* rushed in gaining that knowledge, but that may be the case.
I’ve come to the conclusion that this feeling of adulthood is really the feeling you get after having blazed your own path in life. I think many of us had parents who did that for us (overcoming obstacles so that later, we wouldn’t have to), so the challenge becomes making your mark on the world in a way that seems somehow, original.
I feel like I have the exact opposite problem; I’ve been too grown up for far too long. I was that kid in the glasses reading two books in class while answering all the questions. I was that kid who the adults would come to for sound and unbiased advice. I’ve been that kid since I was seven years old. Now, I feel like a 30 year old in a 20 year old’s body and I’m not so sure if that’s a good or bad thing.
I feel that, given my maturity and intellect and all those other things that make me sound conceited instead of honest I have a harder time connecting with people my own age, especially the men and especially romantically. It’s not that I don’t try (because trust me I do) and it’s not that I’m not willing to go out of my comfort zone (ditto), it’s that there’s too little stability and confidence in men my age and that’s ironically what I ideally look for.
Am I doomed? o.O lol
No Tesssy, you just date based on maturity and not age group – And if that means you date an older man, do that.
What I’m sayin is though Ana, everybody’s telling me I’m missing out on things (clubs, sex, road trips, yada yada) because I think too far ahead, or think too practically and it just gets me down sometimes :\ . I mean I can’t really change that, right?
As for the older men…I haven’t met any that are completely comfortable with me being 20 and a VSV at the same time. If I were a very smart virgin, that’s cool, and if I were 20 that’s cool, but both at the same time is just like putting a big red X on my face lol
I’m a practical thinker and have realized that you do miss out on a lot when you can’t get your head out of the future and live in the moment. I’m not saying go balls to the wall crazy but let go of some inhibitions and LIVE. An old ass biddy I worked with told me I was too wise and serious when I was 16 and needed to live a little; it shocked the hell out of me cuz she was on the brink of death. But I’m taking her advice now (at 21, yay!) and trying to steer away from being Lil Ms. Serious.
You aren’t doomed but if you find that your thoughts are bringing you down then you have to change something. We can change anything [except bad credt] no matter what. As a VSV, I don’t think you are missing out on sex because there is so much more to life than just that. But you will appreciate life more by letting yourself go. Clubs, eh. I go because someone always buys me drinks and dancing is freaking fun (I can’t dance but as an island girl I can’t stop myself). Just try balancing your life out and having one day a week where you do things that are “typical” of young folks.
“We can change anything [except bad credit]…”
*snicker*
I think it’s more of two pressures of idealism (my peers vs. my predecesors) putting pressure on me to pick a side when I feel like I shouldn’t have to. I see what you mean though and I do find time to do things like color and roller skate (don’t judge me lol) and it relieves some of the pressure but not all. I think it’s hard being happy now adays when there’s so many subjective definitions of what happiness is. Am I rambling? o.O I’ll stop now >.<
I don’t think it’s hard being happy, you jus need to be able to define your own happiness. I know that sounds simple, but happiness is very subjective and I think you have it right.
“I think it’s more of two pressures of idealism (my peers vs. my predecesors) putting pressure on me to pick a side when I feel like I shouldn’t have to.”
Then don’t. Do you. As for the 30 year old trapped in a 20 year old’s body, thas all a myth. Anastasia’s got it right when she says “date based on maturity and not age group,” but you can use that same logic to define your social life. There are plenty of 30 year old men and women who still get it in like they’re 20, so it’s all subjective.
How somebody else “lives a little” may not be how you live a little. As for the Red X on your face, well, can’t help you there.
The red X has been washed off with the morning light. I suppose it’s just my idealism that makes me think happiness should be easy to find…and it should…right? Gah, my age is showing >.<.
I just feel so socio-romantically stunted :\
Maybe you’re overthinking things. I’m an overthinker myself and as I’ve gotten older I realize that it can be very limiting.
I am an overthinker actually. Since I was little my Nana calls me the Little Socrates :\ lol
I’m working on it, I promise.
I don’t think it’s hard being happy, you just need to be able to define your own happiness
Totally agree. And I will add that being happy is actually a conscious decision one makes.
Amen to that! I am working on that as well!
Tes,
Tough love in 5… 4… 3… 2…
You’re smart (VSB, duh) so I know you know there is a healthy medium that works for you… but, you won’t find it if you spend time thinking about how to find it… you gotta just do sh*t. You know what makes you happy and what makes you smile. You know when you feel empowered and what you still what to experience. You know what pushes you further and what your passions are. Stop apologizing to yourself and everyone else for being who YOU ARE… if you like to skate, skate dammit… the club is overrated… and honestly YOU KNOW everything isn’t for everyone so stop looking at the measures other place on you to determine your happyness… just.be.happy… F*ck em and read your books (if that’s what you’re into)… don’t let ANYBODY tell you what your life is supposed to be like and if there’s something you’re missing or don’t like about your life then change it.
Sorry… I’m the youngest so I didn’t have a lot of practice sugar-coating advice… I only know the way without a chaser… but it’s all love I promise.
Ewwww and don’t date older men yet cause they WILL turn your @ss OUT!!!… trust me. #Iknow
Tooooo funny.
But they will. ROTFLMAO~!
And they will give you worms…
MIGHT give you worms!!! MIGHT!!!
Now all that? Yeah, that just made me feel better…except for the older men part. That’s not true…is it? o.O
yes it is… so I’ve heard.
“MIGHT give you worms!!! MIGHT!!!”
hahahahahahahahahahaha!!!!…and irritable bowel syndrome. lol
Pardon my ‘Yeah…So’, but what is this ‘older men give yall worms’ joke?
It sounds funny, but I dont want to laugh at something I do not understand.
How cute? You’re like the lil brother sneaking into the bedroom all nosy and sh*t… Come on in SoBo… Since it’s you I’ll share… So, it is FACT that men have lil worms who lay dormant in their peens until they meet what is consider to be poon that is too young for them. The hormones in the young poon awaken these worms and the worms then latch onto the wombs of these young girls making their pee stink and sometimes giving them irritable bowel syndrome (as SFG mentioned)… hence, the giving of worms. All women have this drilled into their minds by their mothers/grandmothers/greatgrandmothers from the day they are born so they know not to chex older men… and yes, it’s true… and yes Tyler Perry is making a movie about it #RunNTellDat
@Yeah…So
“All women have this drilled into their minds by their mothers/grandmothers/greatgrandmothers from the day they are born so they know not to chex older men”
Although I cannot attest to your explanation of men actually having worms (that part was never explained to me). I can cosign (at least from a southern perspective) that we were told as young girls that older men have worms/will give you worms. (which sounds so funny to me right now!)
So when I was a teenager and an older man would flirt with me, I would give them the screw face and get the hell out of dodge!
@Yeah…So
That sounds like pure foolishness to me. Hormones in young poon awaken worms in the peen…” yadda, yadda?? Cho! A eediat ting dat.
Nuttn’ no guh so.
@CNotes, Ok… I kinda made that part up =/
@SoBo… Whoa-lon… Uh who in dee ELLL yuh callin idiot? Yuh too fasty!
Can I not speak patios anymore? In real life I’m not very good and on the interwebs… *tear*
Oooh… Did I just type “patios”?…
… don’t tell my fam y’all.
@Yeah…So
Wow. Clearly language(English or otherwsie, written or orally) is just not your strong suit.
Perhaps you should just stick to blinking once for ‘yes’, and twice for ‘no’.
How many blinks for kiss mi botty? lol…
I believe the term you are looking for is “batty”.
And since you can’t even get that right, we should probably skip blinking all together.
How bout you just drool when your hungry so that someone knows when its time to feed you.
If you what I MEAN why are you being such a jerk?!!!
I meant *know what I mean…
*hangs head and walks away*
Cool down hot pocket. I was just funnin’ witchya. Don’t take it personal. Monica.
Admittedly, I like teasing you at times. You have a youthful spunk to you that I fancy.
I’m playful like that. I know very well that you are very intelligent young sistah, so don’t read too much into my humor with you.
Hot Pocket… hmm… if I had a dollar…
Anyway… oh hush, I know you’re playin. smh.
I’m sorry but the two of you just kilt me with laughter!!!!
Especially this: “How many blinks for kiss mi batty? lol…DEAD!!
Hush Yeah_So, yuh alredy kno seh yuh caan chat di patois. Nuh badda wid it yeeer daahlin? Dont let dry foot Sobo ramp wid yuh. lolol
Awww SFG… mi amor, thanks… you always got yuh sistren back. <— See SoBo dats like 3 different dialects right der!
@Yeah…So – “Hot Pocket… hmm… if I had a dollar…”
But you don’t.
@SFG
Dry foot like yuh puppa! But is who tell yuh fi come push up you two long finga dem inna mi argument? Eeh? Why yuh nuh go dead a bush gal. Gweh!
See, now I woulda went with “poopuh”… but dats wrong huh? iTry
*sidenote* Leave SFG alone! *kissing teeth*
*side-side note* everytime I read “dry foot” I snort a lil… heehee.
@Yeah…So
To my knowledge(unless things have changed in recent years) there is no text book formal way to write in patois. Just go with it phonetically. Although there does seem to be some generally accepted rules, I dont think anything is written in stone on that.
You look at you… tryin to be somebody friend lol… too cute.
My sugafoot,
I’m 23 and I got that a lot too – I apparently was/am missing out on many things but I’ve learned everything comes in its own tiime. Someone’s season may be now, while yours may be waaay later. I feel like I won’t be partying and being super free until around age 27 or 28, haha, and thats ok with me.
Maybe you need to let go of some control???
The VSB’s gave us much insight yesterday, and as far as men go, like Cabelleroso(sp) said if a dude is not feeling you for who you are in this moment, move on to the next one that will appreciate who you are NOW. And that ish will get lonely sometimes, but to do something just because aint the biz.
I feel u, Tes!!
Stasia
I luvs your comment. While reading it I kept hearing that Leona Lewis song “Better in Time”
Big Sugafoot
,
I keep wondering about my season, as everybody around me seems to think I’m perfect for this or that and this is my season and I think that I don’t have the experience to say if I am or aren’t or if it is or isn’t lol.
Men I don’t necessarily worry about but it gets disheartening more often than not when I realize the guy I’ve been talking to is either a) a creeper b) interested only in one aspect of me c) all of the above or d) already in love (with himself, his gf, his car, w/e). I’m patient and hopeful however, not sure if that’s naievety or romanticism but either way I’m rolling with it.
I feel you back Stasia! lol
“Someone’s season may be now, while yours may be waaay later.”
Cosign.
“As for the older men…I haven’t met any that are completely comfortable with me being 20 and a VSV at the same time.”
what exactly constitutes “older?”
Older as in 24 and up.
Dang…older I am.
omg!! kindred spirits. everything you just stated about yourself is everything that is ME. Im not the only one yay. *back to lurkerland*
Kindred! Don’t feel bad, more people than just you and me are going through it, I just seem to be the one asking all the questions o.O
I don’t agree with the whole “I’m missing out out something” school of thought. So long as you are enjoying life–whatever that means for who YOU are, you aren’t missing anything at all. Perhaps people with different mindsets needed things like roadtrips and casual sex to make them feel like they were getting the most out of their youth. You, apparently do not, and I applaud it.
The older men thing, the young jawn thing, the VSV thing…yeah, pimp. IDK what to tell ya. It’s a reality, but it doesn’t have to spell doom either. There are some 20-something VSVs with action-packed love lives. Believe it. In sum, you’ll live. Hang in there.
I’m hanging in there, mostly because I know that’s not all there is.
And thanks for the encouragement.
I don’t agree with the whole “I’m missing out out something” school of thought. So long as you are enjoying life–whatever that means for who YOU are, you aren’t missing anything at all.
Totally agree. As the great John Lennon said: “Time you enjoy wasting is not time wasted”… and I completely adhere to that tidbit
way to justify my procrastination!!
“I feel that, given my maturity and intellect and all those other things that make me sound conceited instead of honest I have a harder time connecting with people my own age”
It hasn’t gotten any better with age for me. It’s a gift and a curse. Don’t let it make you dislike mankind like it has for me. You once commented on here that you “get me”. You really do.
Of course I get you, Beta
, I’ve been saying that for the longest lol
I thought about disliking the world and humanity but as a hippie/humanist/liberal/neo-classic type chick, I think once you understand the ideal that imperfect is normal and perfect truly isn’t it makes it that much easier to decipher the world as a whole for yourself and find the niches that you fit in.
I know it doesn’t get easier, but it’s all about embracing the gift. Embracing you for you always opens the door for others to do the same.
My true feelings about mankind have never been uttered outside of the internet. I keep that to myself. I used to spend a lot of time trying to change other peoples consciousness. I have since learned to lower my expectations.
Ironic sidenote: Charlie Sheen is not crazy. His synapses(like yours and mine) just fire faster than most and he self-medicates so that he can stay here(alive). The so-called experts on tv that say he is crazy have no clue what he is and has been going through his whole life. And most of them have Ph.D’s.
And that is where you and I differ, as anybody who knows me in passing or otherwise knows exactly how I view the world. I maintain high expectations of people, because I have high expectations of myself; people rarely rise to low expectations.
Addendum to your sidenote: He’s not crazy, he’s just severely overfunded and thus so is his drug habit. Self-help and self-medication are two different things; as one becomes acclimated to medication over time and ups the ante until there’s nowhere to go but down. He needs help, not more money and sympathy, not scorn.
Good points but lets take it further about Charlie. I think he feels he NEEDS to be forced back to the bottom and is doing this media blitz to test and manipulate the masses as well as the media. I think it is his swan song. We all deserve to go out in whatever fashion we choose. Everyone will say he was crazy and keep it moving.
Dave Chappelle shares our condition and that is why he did the things that he did. Everyone thought he was crazy too.
So you callin me crazy? o.O I prefer the term “creative thinker”
Would a traditionally sane person feel the need to revert themselves to the lowest denominator to become relevant again? I don’t think so. Charlie and his show (which I find as funny as a trip to the dentist) are on a downturn, despite what the media says and as such, needs controversy to make it big again. In essence, the producers and the like are, if anything exploiting his illness after years of encouraging it.
I’m not even touching Dave Chappelle. (that’s what she said)
And how at all does this relate to maturity and the subject at hand?
lol
“And how at all does this relate to maturity and the subject at hand?”
I was just pleasantly surprised that you weren’t talking out of the side of your neck when you said that you get me. I mentioned Charlie and Dave because they are our kindred spirits.
“Charlie and Dave because they are our kindred spirits.”
Speak for yourself! lol I understand them and am compassionate in general, but I don’t agree with their choices, values (or lack thereof), or way of life. Hiding is noway to live life, and by running and using such obvious escapisms they’re just hindering any further happiness they could have.
“I was just pleasantly surprised that you weren’t talking out of the side of your neck when you said that you get me. ”
I told you so
Charlie Sheen is bipolar and riding a manic high (aka he really is high on Charlie Sheen). So yeah, he crazy. He likes mania so much that when he comes down off Sheen he gets high on coca. Either way, he’s not working with all the parts. Why you gotta lump Chapelle in with that?
I am lumping Dave in with the “too smart” crowd. He has never reached Charlies death wish level of despair with mankind and I hope he never does.
Crazy isn’t the term that they should use, but typically taking stimulants over an extended period of time can result in a Psychosis like state. His synapses may or may not be firing the same, but that isn’t the issue. The dysfunction of his dopaminergic, serotonergic and noradrenergic system is what is messing him up. And when these things get messed they affect the function of the frontal cortex which is necessary for executive function (attention, working memory, decision making). One who does not have a Phd can interpret this as being crazy/losing his mind (literally) or for the higher educated going through some sort of Psychosis. Yes life experiences do affect one’s mental state but no study has shown they can over power the effects of a stimulants such as cocaine, meth and AMPH.
The dysfunction of his dopaminergic, serotonergic and noradrenergic system is what is messing him up. .
That’s it, I’m about to find a male doctor so I can hear him talk like this. I imagine it would be all kinds of sexiness. LOL
I’m so glad I’m not the only one who was thinking that. So what if I had to google those words?
@Ivy,
Well said. I agree with all of it. Do you agree with my opinion about why he chooses to self-medicate? That there is such a thing as “too smart”?
Tes,
to me, people like you are leaders, that means you’ll be bringin the rest of us along… it may seem lonely at times, but remember our quest is not to find others like ourselves but to find those that need us. that is the path of a leader. [warning sexist comment:] for men, we are taught that it is normal to be a leader – to be better than our mates/friends, to be the head of household, etc. for women, society hasn’t allowed you the space to feel comfortable in those roles yet.
I suspect you are already there tho.
peace
LSQ,
. Secondly though, leading and healing is such a thankless thing to do with people, because even when you’re doing it right, you always feel you’ve done something wrong and you always seem neglect yourself in the process. Plus, what do you do when you’re a leader with no one to lead? And, for the record, selflessness and kindness? Foreign to most people in my age bracket; so how do you teach or lead people to that, especially when they don’t want to come?
First of all, thanks
Self acceptance is a powerful tool. It was not one that I was born with and it actually took me 29 years to get there, but since I arrived, I’ve been a much happier person.
It starts with having the courage to be different. My courage to be different started in the third grade when I was ridiculed by classmates for giving an answer in class that was much different than the answers given by them. At this point I don’t even recall what the question was, but I remember that my answer was 27. When they finished laughing at my response, the teacher informed them that I was correct. That one experience laid the ground work for me being able to accept that sometimes I’m going to understand things differently than the masses and that that does not make me wrong. I cite that particular experience for me now being able to accept myself as an agnostic in a world of Christians, but I’m a happier person because of it.
There are pros and cons to this type of self acceptance as you are already discovering. Many will accept and respect you because you stand for what you stand for. Others will ostracize you because you are different and don’t fit the preconceived mold or notion of how they would define you. While it may suck azz sometimes to have people shun you for standing your ground on your terms and for you being true to you (in whichever way you choose to define you on that particular day I might add), you’ll ultimately be happier because in the end, you are you and you defined you in spite of them…and they can’t steal that from you. In other words, F’em! Be you and make no apologizes for it.
@ Cab
Woot for that
You are my official e-crush of the day for all of that.
Its easy I think to get caught up in being different and trying to change and be like everyone else for the sake of not being seen, but you’re right; I’m learning being seen for who I really am and not who people want me to be, though sometimes difficult, is what makes life easier for me.
“There are pros and cons to this type of self acceptance as you are already discovering. Many will accept and respect you because you stand for what you stand for. Others will ostracize you because you are different and don’t fit the preconceived mold or notion of how they would define you. While it may suck azz sometimes to have people shun you for standing your ground on your terms and for you being true to you (in whichever way you choose to define you on that particular day I might add), you’ll ultimately be happier because in the end, you are you and you defined you in spite of them…and they can’t steal that from you. In other words, F’em! Be you and make no apologizes for it.”
^^^ THIS^^^ Says it all and then some!
Completely off topic (but I promised myself to advertise as much as possible) and related to this sentence of yours I cite that particular experience for me now being able to accept myself as an agnostic in a world of Christian
Please people go see Moo-zlem, it’s currently out in theaters. It is a really cool independent movie. While it may lack a bit on the subtlety side, it is a great story being told from a voice that we don’t often hear or even know exist. It showcases brilliant performances by Nia Long and Evan Ross. So if you get the chance, go out and catch it.
*end public service announcement*
Amen Sista Girl!!
yea,
being a leader can suck -> you are out front. and yea, its about as thankless that it gets. Leaders do it cause it needs to be done – for the sake of everyone.
As far as no one to lead, this place (earth) is filled with followers – take them (choose who wisely) along on your journey, the real tough job is getting them to listen. this is why managers/directors/etc get paid so much more than ‘skilled’ labor. The ability to see above the fray, and exist in it at the same time.
but there is prolly a bazillion books on leadership that could tell you better than I could.
Tes… This right here…. is me to the T!!. I have always had the feeling that I’ve been here before. At 25, I am usually more mature than the rest of my peers and that can be hard. Because I love having fun and being spontaneous. But on the other hand I don’t understand the flightiness/ and iffyness of my friends. I tend to be a very deep thinker and I over think almost everything.( Working on it!!)
So I am glad to know that I am not alone in this regard! It mos def makes me feel better!! But like you I am working on this because as I have found I tend to miss out on the HERE and NOW ( I miss Luther) of Life because I am constantly over thinkin.
Well two Cheers to “Carpe Diem”!!
You know Champ, I have to say in the depths of my mind I have thought the exact same thing. I allow those thoughts to linger as I attempt to find a solution. My father big ups me in the fact that I have done things at my age that he wouldn’t be “mature” enough to do. Considering my father was the oldest of 17 and more or less raised them, I tend not to believe me.
I think part of the reason is b/c of the shift in the economy from manufacturing to information and the skills required to be proficient in this new economy mean extended schooling (which isn’t on the same level of responsibility). In college you’re only real work is going to class and learning. Beforehand, you grabbed a blue collar job and went out to make your place in the world.
Maybe I’m just reaching.
Naw you’re making sense. I said the same thing (or along those lines).
I actually think you’re right. Having a job and a family to feed will make an adult out of a person, and given that so many of us are focusing on furthering our education first (maybe with a part time job on the side) makes it look like we are adults but it doesn’t make us feel like adults.
Stank_0….I believe you are right also. While Champ and many of us budding men make what we consider the transition, I look at my father who is now 60 (I am 32) and I think he can still beat me up. Physically, he is an ox, 5’8″ but an ox nonetheless. While I stand 6’1″ and I too am physically fit, he seems to have that “man factor” that will edge me out every time. I say that to say the blue collar industry of yesteryear made you or killed you, period. In our current “Information Technology” era, if you mess up you can hit the backspace button and fix it, there was no backspace back then so you had to be accountable for everything you said AND did which is my definition of a man is FIRST AND FOREMOST.
As I look at how many times I pressed delete to ensure I was saying exactly what I wanted, I bet my father would have knocked out this same message in 30 seconds flat typing with his two index fingers or basically grunting for me to do it for him. While I stand on my own two feet, own a home, a car, a business, I still feel like a kid when I am signing my name on my employees checks and every single one of them is at least 5 years older than me which doesnt help any.
Now all I can think about is….. I really need to stop pressing backspace so much. Damn!
“Physically, he is an ox, 5’8? but an ox nonetheless. While I stand 6’1? and I too am physically fit, he seems to have that “man factor” that will edge me out every time.”
LOL, I enjoyed this comment.
Wow… this really makes a lot of sense.
I like this.
you had to be accountable for everything you said AND did which is my definition of a man is FIRST AND FOREMOST.
i meant to leave a response to that. smh.
i agree wholeheartedly for men and for women. and yes accountability has significantly decreased over the years. but why? its not just the internet. what are the other factors that are making that aspect of adulthood (accountability) so hard for people to get?
my thought is that there is no growing into it. like someone said higher up in the comments, there is a thought that ‘one day’ ill be this or that. but ive noticed around me that people who dont have accountability are lacking it because they have a history of not having to be. they are spoiled (in some regard, not necessarily money or attention though those certainly do not help). and that continues on in their life as they will continue to find away to get by with out actually having to stand on their own two feet or even harder; stand by their word.
what do yall think? im pretty young so i could just be dead wrong.
also, i bet your parents (i cant speak on mine because something went astray with them) still have feelings somewhat similar to you. is there a really a breakthrough point of adulthood? i would think not, i would think people are somewhat confused about what their expectations of themselves until the day they die. again im young but in this (short) life of mine ive come to the (possibly false) conclusion that everybody is asking: “what the hell is my life? what am i supposed to be doing? what do i want to be doing? am i the person i thought id be? am i the person i should be? how exactly did i get here?” and by everybody i mean 10 yrs old, 50 yrs old, 100 yrs old, etc.
your parents may have found more peace with life choices theyve made/ have to make, but this is the first March 2, 2011 for everyone. not one of us has done this sh*t before.
This was a great post. I think I kind of idealize and deify my father the same way. I am much bigger and stronger than my Dad now, but I still wouldn’t challenge him, and in a scrap I fully well expect him to whoop wholesale a$$. It’s like our parents are those old cars made out of iron and steel, terrible gas mileage, almost no electronics, but could drive through a brick wall and keep going. Our generation are the cars made out of polymers and fiberglass, and composite metals, that can log into facebook and connect your blue tooth, to a satellite feed in Russia, but one good solar flare and the whole thing shuts down.
We’re just made in a different era and a different time – but one could argue we’re the right people for this time and space, just like our parents were the right people for the time and space they occupied as youth.
Very well said.
you aren’t reaching at all. this is what i meant by my comment, but i didn’t have the…energy (yeah, that sounds good) to type it out
I agree with both Stank so Good and Uptown.
My mama once told me, they don’t make men like they used to. All of these short, scrawny dudes running around with soft hands not knowing how to *insert anything from working on cars to unclogging pipes (both types of pipes
*
I laughed so hard, but it’s true. Look at an older man’s hand, they show signs of work. While guys now a days have hands softer than mine. LOL
@ V Renee
Co-sign.
I think this might be the reason why I find men, who know how to ‘fix things’ (a computer, shelves on a wall, a car. etc.), extremely s exy.
Girl yes. I love some rough, calloused hands with chipped nails. They just make me wanna take care of them. I know that man ain’t afraid to work.
@Mimi- Cosign the cosign I love to see a man fix something or do some yard work, LOL
“I think part of the reason is b/c of the shift in the economy from manufacturing to information and the skills required to be proficient in this new economy mean extended schooling (which isn’t on the same level of responsibility).”
yeah, this point was made in the WSJ article.
After thinkin about it, my Mama provides some historical perspective. My Dad was kinda bouncin aimlessly from jobs until they found out in 1974 that a girl was on the way (my oldest sister). That was the kick in the pants for him to get a job at the local natural gas plant (that he kept until he retired a few years back). Maybe he and I aren’t that different after all. He was two years older than I when my sister was born so I guess I have a little time to keep listing aimlessly although I know what I want to do #runonsentencestruggle
I had my moment when I turned 32. Why 32? Because that’s how old my parents were when I first recall being cognizant of their age. Turning that age was a paradigm shift for your a$$.
I have since concluded that life circumstances now are just different than what they were back “then” and thus we are afforded more time before we are forced to “grow up”.
this is true.
“I had my moment when I turned 32. Why 32? Because that’s how old my parents were when I first recall being cognizant of their age. Turning that age was a paradigm shift for your a$$.”
seeing that this is the age where i had my same realization, it seems like 32 is just a bitch
The Terrible Thirty-twos?
Glorious!
Also, I dont think it’s just men. it’s our generation in general.we didnt have to live as hard as our parents and grow up as fast. We were able to be selfish and be students and “find ourselves” they didn’t have that luxury back in the day as much.
“We were able to be selfish and be students and “find ourselves” they didn’t have that luxury back in the day as much.”
I agree. I bet our parents wanted us to have that luxury though. They didn’t want us to have to work in a factory the day after we graduated or mow lawns 8 hours a day to feed our kids even though they did it.
That’s the honest to God truth. My parents have said they don’t want me to do physical labor. That’s why they were so hard on me in school.
I overcompensated by doing manual labor work study in graduate school. I figured out I like to be active and sitting in the office blows [II] and I can be alone. I spoke when it is required otherwise it was me, my thoughts, and the task at hand.
On a blog I used to read, one guy made the argument that our generation didn’t have defining moments like our parent’s generation. No marching for equal rights, burning bras, Vietnam, etc.
I think we had definining moments. However I think they caused us to shrink rather than rise. Events like school shootings and 9/11. I think our moments caused fear so maybe that adds to us not wanting to grow up and have to be out in this crazy ass world we live in…
You made me think that when my mom was my age she had a 6 year old, a failed marriage, and was a year away from purchasing her own home. However, I don’t feel “some kinda way” about it. In fact I couldn’t imagine the Alise I am/was having a baby with no support at age 25. It just doesn’t fit who I am/was. I think a marriage at 25 would have ended in the same unfortunate divorce that she fond herself in because personality wise we are very similar. I am glad of the weird twisted path my life has taken at times and I feel just as grown-up as I want to feel. I think sometimes we try to compare or lives to our parents or other folks that we forget our journey is OURS and we get to define it how we choose. (and shyt)
Cosign.
Agreed! I’m 33 now and – if I were holding myself to my parents pace – I’d have an 11 year old and be married for 11 years! That idea is completely unfathomable to me. Then again, I was the 1st person in my family to go to college and hold a doctorate degree now. #notbragging Certainly a departure from my folks’ path. I have a hard time handling my dog some days…let alone a kid!
That being said, I think it’s in our nature to compare ourselves to other – whether it be our parents, other respected elders, or our peers. Every now and then I hafta snap myself out of that comparison mode and remember that my life is mine to live and make of it what I choose!
“That being said, I think it’s in our nature to compare ourselves to other – whether it be our parents, other respected elders, or our peers. Every now and then I hafta snap myself out of that comparison mode and remember that my life is mine to live and make of it what I choose!”
Love this! So true…
My mother had a lot of responsibility at a young age and by my age (I’ll be 29 in the summer) she had already been married, divorced and married again. My mom has always been the person that other people could rely on (she raised my cousins in addition to myself and my brother), so sometimes when I compare myself to her and where she was at at my age, I do feel like I’m coming up a little short.
However, its been interesting, because now that I’m getting older, my mother opens up to me a lot more about her regrets and mistakes. One thing my mother always tells me is that she feels like I’m a lot stronger than her. My mother was always that person that you could depend on, but she also let a lot of people walk all over her and take advantage of her. She tells me that she admires me because I’m stronger than her in that sense. She also recently told me that she actually felt/feels a little jealous of me from time to time because I was/am enjoying life and having fun and getting the opportunity to do a lot of things that she never got to experience because she had taken on so much responsibility at an early age. I was suprised that she was so candid with me, but I appreciated it because it helped me to better understand certain aspects of our relationship.
All this to say that I think everyone compares their lives to others… which is normal, I guess… just as long as you learn to really appreciate your own experiences. You never know who would love to be in your shoes…
“my mother opens up to me a lot more about her regrets and mistakes.”
Yeah, I got a glimpse into my mothers feelings of this when she asked me if her and my dad somehow “messed me up” as a child. SMH! I had to remind HER of all of my accomplishments…none of which I would have achieved had it not been for the love and support of my parents.
It’s very interesting to befriend your parents as you get older! It’s like meeting a whole new person!!!
That being said, I think it’s in our nature to compare ourselves to other – whether it be our parents, other respected elders, or our peers…..my life is mine to live and make of it what I choose .
Truth.com
but you would have been fine. im sure your mother didnt think it would happen that way either. it just happened and she did what she had to do in order to get herself (and little you) to a comfortable place. my point is in general, our parents did the same things we are doing now. hit the ground, pretend our ankles dont hurt, do a slow jog… and then runwalk to the finish line.
By the time my dad was 30, he had his first (me) of three kids, held two jobs the entirety of his 20s, owned and sold seven cars and had just purchased his third house after selling the first three.
I’m 31 and I own a car that I bought from my parents and a computer. I just got engaged.
I feel like Peter Pan, but I can’t fly.
“By the time my dad was 30, he had his first (me) of three kids, held two jobs the entirety of his 20s, owned and sold seven cars and had just purchased his third house after selling the first three.”
lol, damn. it must have been nice to be a white man in the 60′s and 70′s. seriously though, even though it’s human nature, i think we just have to find a way to not compare ourselves to our parents (from a “success” standpoint, at least). much easier said than done, though
lmao!! took it there.
O_O no you didn’t just…! That wasn’t the point of…>.< f*ck it lmao
gaulllllllleeee
iDied
Champ does have a point *shrug*
I think is a normal feeling for most of us. I definitely don’t feel as grown as my parents. At my age, my Mom had 4 children and had been married to my Dad for 11 yrs already. I haven’t even gotten started yet. Being grown is definitely a state of mind, didn’t really feel grown at all until I hit my 30s.
“I think is a normal feeling for most of us”
yeah, it seems like it
Great introspective post. I just hit the age my father was when I was born and feel the same way. It’s hard to really compare the time periods though. Our experiences aren’t necessarily better or worse; just different. The process of a man adjusting to married life and kids is very humbling. It brings about a new sense of selflessness that leads to higher levels of maturity.
thanks, man
Our experiences aren’t necessarily better or worse; just different.
Totally agree.
I was born when my parents were in their 30s. I’m dad’s 1st child, mom’s 2nd. My mom was young when she had her 1st child, so being child-free up until my mid 20s I was winning. Now that I’m getting closer to 30, I’m “losing” as far as the “you don’t have kids yet?” convo. But with all their education behind them when I was born, they bought a house, a car and my mom has never really worked full time during our lifetimes (but she always worked) I look at educated men my age and think,”we probably couldn’t afford a kid. Inflations’ a b!tch, and that could be extending the adolescence.
(I don’t know what the adjusted rate would be for inflation since the 80s, but my parents bought a 2bd/2ba house for $29K, add a decimal point and you’ve got the price of a similar house today)
“I look at educated men my age and think,”we probably couldn’t afford a kid. Inflations’ a b!tch”
I’ve had this thought so many times, but really the problem is that, for me, I don’t think I’m prepared to make the sacrifices many of our parents made. We could probably “afford it” but the changes to our lifestyles would hurt like hell! We’re spoiled.
Please preach WIP! People find it extremely odd that I don’t want children (for at least another 10 years – which may be over the top since I’m soon to turn 25). But quite honestly, being able to comfortably afford children is something that I’m very concerned about. I’m waist deep in grad school and this salary is measley! I watch other grad students somehow support families on the same paycheck (and probably tens of thousands in credit card debt) and I don’t know how they do it, especially with stay-at-home moms.
Maybe I just don’t know how to make a penny stretch like folks did back in the day, but right now, I’m content with being selfish. Best believe when I finally get that great paying job, the first thing I want is to treat myself to all the things I’ve gone without for years, not settle down and have some children to share it with. Maybe later though… once I get it out of my system…
My mom at my age (32) was married for 12 yrs, had two girls (11 and 8), a home, and was holding down 2 jobs while learning English. At the same age, I’m single and no kids. It blows my mind because I feel like I’m finally growing into my own and starting to get who I am. I feel fortunate that I was able to do what my mom dreamed about (college degree, good job, traveling), but feel young compared to her at the same age….
Growing up sux.
So does staying the same.
I’m sure there’s a happy medium.
Not many of us have found it yet.
Cause it don’t exist… unless you’re Charlie Sheen apparently.
#buhdompish
I don’t think that’s a medium I think that’s a super high.
touché
Good post, Champ.
I went through a similar thing last year. I felt less grown because my personal life wasn’t the way everyone says its supposed to be at this age. My mother was married and had 3 children by the time she was 28. I have no legitimate prospects and no kids. Thing is, I really don’t want any of that right now in my life. I have my own personal goals I want to accomplish, and they don’t include married with children, at least not at this time. And it used to bother me because society tells me that as a woman, that is what I’m supposed to want above all else, and I don’t want any of that until I’ve accomplished certain professional and personal goals. Now, I’ve come to grips with the reality that not only am I grown, but I will continue to grow as a person as my life evolves to eventually include a husband, 2 children, and a cat named Optimus Prime. Continual growth, constant movement.
I’m glad in a way that many of us is waiting later in life to start a family and get married. Hopefully this “extended adolescent” give ppl time enough to grow up without bringing into the equation kids and marriage. I believe that getting married young with kid is the reason why so many of our parents are divorced and so many ppl are fack up so in total enjoy it!
I’m currently at that point with my mom. It’s slightly awkward when she does the whole “when I was your age” thing because, well, like Nerina, I’m a real late starter***. I don’t know if its just the sign of the times (sorry for all the song references), but I still feel like I don’t measure up to where my parents were in life when they were this age, even though the only difference may be the fact they were married with child.
I think its just a shift of priorities from the prior generation.
***Obscure song reference: Nerina Pallot – “Real Late Starter” (aka my unofficial theme…)
Shout out to our parents generation(s) who went through so much more than we could have ever fathom and created the opportunities we sometimes take for granted. My parents emigrated to the United States and created their own business while raising my siblings and I. By the time they were in their 30′s they had somehow found a way of life in a country where they couldn’t speak the language. I’m doing a lot of things that my parents only dream of and am far from producing a child for the but in a strange way they applaud me for taking these crazy risk and not limiting myself because they understand that the world has changed. I think I’m far from grown but still in the process of learning it all.
I don’t think you will ever feel as grown as your parents. Its a sign of good parenting that even when you’ve technically achieved more you still have that reverence. I know it my case it makes me push harder to not become complacent in the attempt to be grown as my momma.. And I find comfort because that means I always have someone to go to for advice!
Its a sign of good parenting that even when you’ve technically achieved more you still have that reverence.
Totally agree.
The landscape and rules of adulthood are changing; partly out of necessity to accommodate demographic and (socio-)economic shifts, partly out of disillusionment in watching the shortcomings of our parents, and partly due to the extended adolescence (for men and women) borne of a generation that has been given far more lifestyle options…and less of a tangible, common enemy and/or threat…than any other proceeding it.
What will come of it? Who knows…I will say this though. I personally feel that my generation (and I wholeheartedly include myself as one of the worst offenders) is pointedly more…shall we say, narcissistic than our predecessors. No, that’s not right…we’re more *overtly* narcissistic. Whereas the Baby Boomers and Gen-X’ers may have been just as self-aware, they were armed with good intentions, however fleeting and futile (and ultimately destructive) they may have been. We seem to be a stunning array of over-thinkers, desperate to prove how much we know about who we are, more capable of pseudo-vulnerability than the real stuff, and quick to meta-mock ourselves into sardonic oblivion. We are the folks who are “just doing me” and worrying about “haters” and are often heard lamenting, “It is what it is.”
But, in the end, just as it was for our parents and theirs and so forth, time catches up and forces your hand in ways you never imagine…until you’re looking back across years, decades of an avalanche of static, concrete choices…trying to remember what the big rush was.
As the writers of Mad Men (I think, unless they “borrowed” it from someone else) so poignantly penned, “Youth is wasted on the young.” Lucky for us, we get a few more extra years to burn than our parents did.
“until you’re looking back across years, decades of an avalanche of static, concrete choices…trying to remember what the big rush was.”
This hit me goooooood…
….we’re trying to get to that final destination only to realize that the process is what matters most…not the result.
Yep, pretty much. The journey is the reward. The outcome is incidental.
i love this comment. and it reminds me of a book i just recently finished reading, Generation Me, by Jean Twege. it basically says the same that you’ve just stated. we as a generation are more self-important (because we are taught this from birth) and thus focus on “me” and “i” and ultimately making ourselves singularly happy much longer than generations past.
Ooh, I’ll have to check that out! Thanks: -)
“Youth is wasted on the young.”
originally quoted by George Bernard Shaw, an Irish playwright, who wrote Pygmalion – on which the musical My Fair Lady is based.
Thanks! I figured this quote was just a little too good. I’ve been meaning to read this, as I’ve seen, read, and loved evry modern derivation of this story: -)
glad i could shed light!
Yes, perhaps, “Youth is wasted on the young, ” but, take note, old fools are the biggest fools because they’ve had more practice.
An Old Fool
“We are the folks who are “just doing me” and worrying about “haters” and are often heard lamenting, “It is what it is.””
*applause*
your whole post hit my heart.
Thanks: -)
*curtsies*
Ok, maybe I’m gonna raise some eyebrows for being sort of lame or borderline a-holeish….but….
…..I don’t believe I will ever be GROWN because it signifies that there is a limit to be reached.
What am I growing to be? A man? Well to what and who’s standard? At what point do you say “he’s a man”? What is a man? Is it short for HUE-Man…or is this a concept fabricated by our ancestors that we inherited and just ran with it because it seems to work? And why even ATTEMPT to make a definition as if “growing” is a process that has an end? As if there will be a time that I reach a fixed “mortality age”, and I’m done “growing”…..like …..I’ve learned all there is to life. As if I experienced it all in one lifetime. Yet by some standard…I’m grown. Maybe I’m out of the loop. Are we saying “grown up” as in….the age of responsibility/awareness/decision-making?
Gotta be careful here…..there are souls in children’s bodies that kill souls in adult bodies over in Africa, Iraq, Afghanistan and yes…even in America. Children do “grown things”….and adults who are supposedly grown do child-like things.
Let’s get a little deeper than 6 feet deep without taking lives here. What are you (we) GROWING from? Fear? Inflexibility? Stagnation? Hate (a product of fear)? Immaturity (by what means…because immaturity stretches across a broad spectrum of things)? Egoism? Social status/responsibility? Ignorance? Impatience? Imperfection (and if so, what’s the standard for perfection?) I mean….when we say “grown up” what are we talking about here? I never understood what I was growing up to be. Sure, I’m changing (transforming), but I think of it as a change in conditions – does the essence of who I am truly grow? Or is self actualization more of a realization of potential? Maybe I’m splitting hairs. I just feel like I’m BEING me! That all I’m doing is BEING different aspects of myself whenever, however, around whoever at wherever. I figure that I’m living to experience myself in the means that make me feel content….god-like…..peaceful….understanding (and a rainbow of other divine synonyms). And I also realize that in order for me to do this, I have to NOT do it first. To say I’m grown up feels like I’m implying that love matures to a set limit; that there is a point where there is nothing grander, larger, or greater to experience after I do so much. That after a certain set of miles and experience, I’m done….even if I’m 90.
Of course this is just my seemingly radical perception (in relation to previous cultural background) based on my discoveries as a scholar and scientist of living. So yea…maybe I’m rattling the lions cage looking to get bit. I’ll brace myself for an answer.
Thought provoking post Champ
I’m defining grown as the change of perspective from “selfish” to “selfless”. Speaking only for myself, I know I am still not my father at his age, because at his age he had 3 kids a wife and a mortgage, all things that forced him to think of “others” before himself.
I have not yet been in the position where I’ve had to do likewise. But the day is coming, and I know it. My subconscious knew it 3 years ago. So what I originally thought was my “mid-life crisis” was really my subconscious telling me to take on all those pet projects that I said I’d get back to now, because there’s no space for them where I’m going.
And so I am. And when it’s over I won’t have any regrets. It’s been a great ride being DQ-centric, and I expect the new ride to be even better. But it won’t be DQ-centric. And until it’s NOT DQ-centric… I’m not grown. Despite the job, despite the bills I pay, the taxes I file, the situations I handle – until I’m doing it for MORE than just my own benefit, I’m not grown. This thing called life, is not just something for us to live, it’s something for us to contribute to; to look beyond what we can make from it, and see what we can add to it for the sake of others.
Just some thoughts from a screen named called DQ
“selfish” to “selfless”
SO TRUE! forget age, it’s just a number anyway. are you willing to give up some of your time, talents, energy, income, freedom for another?
I really like the way you think… really.
@DQ… you always got comments I wanna hump.
Use protection and be gentle.
YES. this.
DQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQ
*catches holy spirit*
learning selflessness (particularly for our generation) is really hard, and its the main ingredient for a marriage or rearing a child.
Selflessness…totally agree. It may be harder for our generation because we were more coddled than previous generations.
Wow…..Thanks this is what I have been going with my thoughts but just had no words for my definition of “grown”
“selfish to selfless”
so so true, so true
if only more folk understood this
{I am stealing this BTW}
GOTDAMMIT! I just got 404′d.
Anyway…I basically commented that I don’t believe that we are growing FROM something but more that we are growing INTO something, namely the best hue-man we can be.
As long as one is alive, one should never stop learning and growing. Be it from their mistakes or the people around them.
I am an adult with a certain maturity level but I am not yet grown and don’t plan on being grown for a long time to come.
And I didn’t find this comment to be lame or borderline a**holeish.
So I’m happy to know that it’s not just me that:
1. Has realized that I’m not what my parents where at my age
2. has gotten 404′ed and 500′ed over the last couple of days
Misery loves company. Let us drink and be merry.
its good to be part of the 404 / 500 club… I thought it was just me.
whose moving the ‘lectrons over at VSB?
Radical or not, I totally espouse your perception.
The problem with defining such a fluid concept as “adulthood” is that it would only fail to include a vast array of people.
I like what you had to say.
“The problem with defining such a fluid concept as “adulthood” is that it would only fail to include a vast array of people.”
And that’s what I recognize as well. It would be like trying to standardize a concept that has no standard. If this blog happens to stand the test of time (and hackers….and the government), mark these words….our standard of adulthood will change because WE as humans will evolve within the next 10 years.
“Forgot to add, this –> Or is self actualization more of a realization of potential? is brilliantly stated.”
I strongly believe that life is more about PERCEPTION if not…EXPERIENCE. How you see yourself in relation to the universe can reflect more maturity than your lifestyle and mortality. If you knew how to move the universe with my mind (or heart)…would that reflect maturity…or potential actualized? And what would be the difference between the two?
How you see yourself in relation to the universe can reflect more maturity than your lifestyle and mortality.
I see you’ve taken your cereal this morning with an extra dose of wisdom.
But I totally agree with you… Life is more about what we experience and perceive than it is about checkpoints.
If you knew how to move the universe with my mind (or heart)…would that reflect maturity…or potential actualized?
and this instance makes me even more eager to check out Limitless (the movie with Bradley Cooper)… It should be an interesting take on potential actualized vs maturity i.e what we do with that actualized potential.
Good stuff bro.
Forgot to add, this –> Or is self actualization more of a realization of potential? is brilliantly stated.
John THESkywalker!! I think I just exhaled with my soul!! It’s official, I think I just developed my first e-crush!!! Your words, your depth, your spirit shines through!!
This is the definition of Beauty!
Ok ok I am pretty sure that was about 99.5% Gay!! Aight Im done!!
Off topic:
Seriously? This is the 404 page?
You 404’d it. Gnarly, dude.
Surfin’ ain’t easy, and right now, you’re lost at sea. But don’t worry; simply pick an option from the list below, and you’ll be back out riding the waves of the Internet in no time.
Hit the “back” button on your browser. It’s perfect for situations like this!
Head on over to the home page.
Punt.
Gnarly? *judges*
iDied the first time I came across that 404 message. I thought it was so hilarious that when I came back to life I tried to mess up again so I could show it to someone else because they thought I’d made it up. I ended up Googling it and found out that it was part of a WordPress template which for some reason made it less funny to me.
Yeah, I’m thinking either Panama wrote that or the turtle from Finding Nemo. Either way…
I was just 404′d for the first time and I was not amused. -_-
Im not one to just “jock” a dudes style like that…but this was an EXCELLENT blog. I basically says some things that I’ve kept tucked away in the back of my mind for a long time. I dont thing its an “inadequacy” issue……at least I dont THINK it is. But if it is, then I’ll take that one to the chin.
We ALL…yes ALL experience some form of this. It may be in comparison to peers…or in comparison to this cruel world we live in. And frankly, its hard to be introspective enough to write it in a manner that doesnt come off as “woe as me”.
I may have to blog this one out myself, lol.
“Y’all actin’ like some old folks. Y’all don’t hear me. Yo I’m in my 2nd childhood.”
– Nasir Jones – ’01
“As the youngest person in the room, my job was to do what any youngest person in a room full of loved and respected elders is usually supposed to do: listen, fetch cans of Pepsi, fact check in the most non-condescending way possible, and get teased for playing on my phone.”
This is SO real life. Especially the “fact-check” thing. I mean, how am I supposed to achieve my goal at dispelling the stereotype that young folks think they know everything when I actually DO know everything (especially when it comes to things like the internets and other aspects of the future)?
Anyhow, yeah this was poignant and ish. I always hear older chatter at how men aren’t the way they used to be. Hell, my sister’s dad had a dope habit and he STILL worked multiple jobs to pay his way, thus no excuse for some of these ninjas out here… is what Mama Cheeks is always saying. There did seem be something “manlier” about men back then and I’m trying to pinpoint where in the world that was lost. My first instinct is to go the “blame the woman” card (as I know some dudes may go there today lol) and wonder if we’re less “womanly” than we were back then? Hmm. Lots to ponder about. It’s too late for all’at doe, so will return with at least half a brain tomorrow.
Good post.
“There did seem be something “manlier” about men back then and I’m trying to pinpoint where in the world that was lost.”
I think it was that manual labor factor. Men got dirty and sweaty from working on a regular basis. Not to say no white collar work was done, but the dirty jobs never went away. There are still some manly men out there though; they’re all over the place in the country.
“There did seem be something “manlier” about men back then and I’m trying to pinpoint where in the world that was lost.”
like WIP i agree it has something to do with manual labor, technology and the overall softening of a species (homo sapiens). long ago only the strong survived, people did whatever they had to do and pulled from the deepest recesses of their beings to make it. now its just different- biologically i.e. there has been a resurgence of Rickets in the children today… Rickets? the disease you get from a lack of Vitamin D made entirely by your own body with the assistance of sunlight, socially in the diminishing of gender roles the diminishing of many other things has also occurred, economically, you can’t just graduate high school, find a job and be good anymore. all that to say we as a people are softer in general the manly man and the dainty woman have both been pushed to the side for the über educated, tech savvy, sit down most of the day at your job, instant gratification needing, more money having than ever before people we are now.
wow, I thought I was the only person who thought about stuff like that – comparing my current life accomplishments at my age with my parent’s age when they had me.
Like a lot of you, I don’t feel like a grown up. My mother at my age was raising two teenage children (me 16, my brother 14) on her own and we were living in a small two bedroom apartment (she shared a room with me) and she had two jobs. I admired my mother so much for the sacrifices she made for her children. She never finished college and having a steady job and good credit and the finer things in life were a challenge to her. But she raised two college graduates, a home two cars, a wife and son on the way..and the other living the carefree single life in the Bay Area that she wished she could have had.
Yet the other day my mother said something to me that made me blink, gasp and get real quiet. She has gone back to school..and will graduate with a BS in May. I congratulated her and she responded that she just wanted to make me proud of HER.
I couldn’t believe it. Threw me for a big loop. The mere idea of this beautiful black woman wanted me to be proud of her never entered my mind before then. Here I am thinking that I would NEVER be able to deal with all that she had to cope with (I can barely remember to eat regularly myself let alone feed two hungry children as well).. she is in wonder of the little things that I do.
I say this because, although we may FEEL that we aren’t adults, or haven’t accomplished as much as our parents, like someone said, we are DOING so much more than some of our parents have been able to do- either because of circumstance or fear or lack of resources…and our parents are proud of the people that we have become. And we have become that way, due to the sacrifices and support that they gave to us. We shouldn’t feel shame or doubt, but be proud and grateful..of the blessings bestowed upon us and what our parents were able to accomplish..a generation of VSB’s and VSS’s <3
this admittedly made me tear up. appreciation and praise from our loved ones holds so much. Congrats to your momma!!!
Its 4am west coast time and I’m checking vsb!!!
But giiiirrrl, you betta speak the word right here!!! Thank you for this, because although we don’t Feel like we are accomplishing or doing something, we have to give ourselves credit for getting thru this life as VSP’s! And if there is more that one wants to do, then do that thing.
I had an epiphany about a whole bunch of stuff recently, and it really just freed me up to be proud of myself and okay with where I am TODAY. And my todays will change, some will be up/down, but damnit today is a good day and I have purpose to fulfill in this day.
If we all could latch onto to our God-given purpose and just fully embrace it!!
Thank you girl!!
*okay back to sleep*
Beautiful. Congrats to your Mom on earning her degree!
Oh my… this post was really beautiful… and congrats to your Mom, dats dope.
<3 back at cha!
This is a good point. My parents often tell me they are proud of the things I’ve accomplished at certain ages and how independent I am with regard to trying new things, etc. Now of course parents are parents, they’re gonna gush more than is necessary, but I’m surprised at how great they think the things that I do are when I feel like I’m just living. Many of our parents were put in situations they weren’t ready for, or situations they later wished they had waited for, and they get a kick out of watching us live our lives differently.
i love this. kudos to your mother.
Between your post and Champ’s blog, it really makes me want to start printing some of these things out and keeping them in a little book to remind me of the little things every now and then. Call me old fashioned, but I’ll forever love the smell of physical pages.
Back to the point though, thanks for reminding us that what we have been accomplishing is nothing to overlook. We look at what we’re doing and see the steady group of others alongside us doing it, that we forget that it wasn’t always the typical task in life to pursue higher degrees, or even degrees at all!
I think we get too caught up in comparisons: comparing ourselves to our parents, comparing ourselves to those who may not have chosen the school/career route and are currently establishing their marriages and families (I’m in the rapidly decreasing group of still-single-and-childless from my high school class). While I hold the utmost respect for my parents and the opportunities that they created for me, I have to understand that being a grown-up isn’t defined by an age, marraige, or kids. As DQ mentioned upstream, it’s the transition from selfish to selfless that makes one truly grown.
Thanks everyone! My mom is the best.
I think we all have those perspective/realization moments in life i know i have, especially since i turned 30. Like you i look at my father recently and realized i remember him turning 30 as a child, now here i am 30*cough plus cough*.
Also being on twitter has made me feel my age lately when i see tweets from ppl younger than myself. Someone tweeted something abt 1998 the other day, i mentioned i graduated HS in 98, they replied “i was only in 6th grade in 98″ i instantly felt old as hell smh, then i realize that 1998 was almost 11 years ago(shoutout to class of 1998!)
I do think society(economy) has changed ppl, bc a man in say 1981 had more opinions and totally different mindset than a man in 2011. in 1981 a man didn’t necessarily hv to goto college to “make up”, he could get factory/blue collar job or go into military and could still afford to buy home and take care of his family with just that one salary(like my father did). Therefore, he didn’t hv to put school/career($) ahead of settling down and starting family, bc he knew he could get a job and support them.
Whereas now, there are little to no factory/blue color jobs a man can work and still afford to buy a home(if bank will give him loan) and provide for his family on one salary(thanks reagan, fcuk you very much!!). And the with military you run risk of going to war and/or being away from your family for long periods of time, so we are taught that inorder to “make it” you have to goto college to now. therefore, a 20 something y/o man might put off settling down inorder to pursue college/career so he could be financially able to support a family. he ends up settling down in his late 20s or 30s or never bc marriage/family is now put aside and/or lesser priority to being “successful”(having degree(s) and career)
Technology has also changed us and made the world smaller. back in 1980s(or before the internet) your social circle/network was confined to who you interacted/lived near, there was no internet, fb or twitter. the only ppl you knew were ppl you lived around, now a person can meet/interact with ppl anywhere around the world via internet/fb/twitter. Think abt the ppl from fb/twitter/blog sites you know/interact with in places you don’t live or hv never been? i’ve never been to Houston but i know atleast 10ppl(i’ve met/interact with via the internet) from or in Houston that i could contact/connect with if i ever decided to visit Houston.
So times have definitely changed, the way we view the world and interact/behave in society has changed as well.
damn 1998 was 13years ago smh must be my old age messing up my math smh lol
damn 1998 was 13years ago smh must be my old age messing up my math smh lol
” in 1981 a man didn’t necessarily hv to goto college to “make up”, he could get factory/blue collar job or go into military and could still afford to buy home and take care of his family with just that one salary(like my father did). Therefore, he didn’t hv to put school/career($) ahead of settling down and starting family, bc he knew he could get a job and support them.”
This is a valid point. It may be a regional thing as well. I had a friend suggest that here in Florida people couldn’t get factory/plant jobs if they didn’t go to college, but in Louisiana apparently those opportunities were still there. I also wonder if 3-4+ of years swimming in women (during college) encourages men to stay single as well?
self-reflection.. a beautiful, twisted affair.
yesterday was my mum’s birthday…i am half her greatness (25), further in professional achievements and behind in personal success (single. no kids. two degrees. unemployed. well traveled).
we aren’t growing up the way they used to. i am not mentally prepared to take on what she did (marriage, kids, sacrificing own goals for another’s career) at this age. “I’m young. I live in a house my father owns, in a bed my father bought..Nothing is mine..except my heart and my fears and my growing knowlege that not every road is gonna lead home anymore.”–Wonder Years
“my growing knowlege that not every road is gonna lead home anymore” ..nod to my fellow immigrants.
“my growing knowlege that not every road is gonna lead home anymore”
Girl you don’t know the half of it. Le deep sigh.
Yall talking to me today! Who knew so many of us felt this way? I certainly didn’t.
I heart your comment
I have a slightly different perspective. My mom had me when she was 41, so ten years from now I will be the same age my mom was when she was pregnant with her second child (me) and two years from now I will be the same age my mom was when she had her first child (my sister)… and yes we have the same parents, they married when my mom was 29 and remained married until my moms death three years ago, they would have been married for 40 years if my mom had lived a few more months.
Because my mom had me when she was older (when I was 10 she was 51 and my dad was 53, but they always looked young for their ages) I always told myself I would never do what they did, I was always worried about having older parents (I use to make sure they still breathing every time I saw them sleeping or taking a nap, morbid I know). I told myself that I would get married and have kids in my twenties, but when I had this genius idea I was 12 and thought 23 was a wise old age to be and that I should have my life all figured out by then. I did not know that life does not always go as you plan and living can change your mind about things, like being 50 (or 31 for that matter) is not the end of all things, aging is not death sentence at all, but can give the gift of wisdom and the opportunity for rebirth.
I do however look at friends my age who are married and having babies, one actually gave birth to a little girl this evening, and I do feel like the lone kid sitting at the adults table, but at the same time I realize that I really do not want to have children at 31 (or even gasp, in my thirties) and I really do not want to get married anytime soon (actually on a scale of 1-10 being in a relationship right now is maybe a 4, where as creating the career I want… I am a late bloomer in that area of my life, is like a 1000!!!). I am just now starting to feel ok with this and as one commenter said earlier that this is my journey (and no one else’s).
“I do however look at friends my age who are married and having babies, one actually gave birth to a little girl this evening, and I do feel like the lone kid sitting at the adults table, but at the same time I realize that I really do not want to have children at 31 (or even gasp, in my thirties) and I really do not want to get married anytime soon (actually on a scale of 1-10 being in a relationship right now is maybe a 4, where as creating the career I want… I am a late bloomer in that area of my life, is like a 1000!!!). I am just now starting to feel ok with this and as one commenter said earlier that this is my journey (and no one else’s).”
^THIS.IS.ME.AS.WELL.
That’s a beautiful piece, at the very least, it shows that a man can live to be many years old and STILL be in awe of his father. Such is the often underestimated importance of fatherhood.
I’m 30. My mother had me when she was 20, so by the time she reached 30 she had a 10 year old (and a 6 year old, my sister). My sister is 26, has a 7 year old and is pregnant again. Me…not pregnant and not married. What does this mean? Don’t know…I honestly don’t know
There are times when I wonder if my mother is who she is b/c of having us so young. Because while she’s now a grandmother, I’ve spent the past 8 years parenting, coaching, financially helping and advising her. I took on the responsible role when my dad left and she kinda reverted back to a teenage state. it’s just now that I am beginning to feel like she’s “growing up” and doesn’t need me in that role anymore.
I will say that I saw thos picture of my mom holding me as a baby. She looked happy. She looked well. She looked like me…well, her being older, I look like her. And I said to myself “with different choices, I could have been her all over again.” Which isn’t bad…just not what I want for my life.
I guess what I’m trying to say in this late hour ramble is that I’m feeling this post right now. I’m beginning to really see my mother in me and not run from it, just embrace the parts I want and leave behind those I don’t. Because I am my own person after all.
Outstanding post Champ. I tip my hat to you.
I used to feel the same way. That was probably because for a 2-year stretch, I had so many (or so it seemed) classmates and old friends getting married and having children. Since we were the same age, it made me wonder if I was missing out on something. Well after a couple of divorces, I quickly came to my senses. I realized that I wasn’t missing out on anything. I’ll settle down and start a family when the time is right and not a second sooner. I also realized that everyone has to find their own way in life and that comparing my path to others didn’t do me any good.
Good post.
@KT
I feel the same. I ran into a friend I use to hangout with when I was younger last Friday.
He asked if I had kids yet and I told him no. He then said “I figured. I know when you have kids it will be well thought out”. Majority of the folks I know that got married with families young got divorced or are trapped in miserable dysfunctional marriages because they have kids. From what I understand the divorce rate declines for people who get married when they’re older.
I also realized that everyone has to find their own way in life and that comparing my path to others didn’t do me any good.
- I see it’s going to be one of those days… everybody’s droppin that knowledge… nice comment.
Wow, I never even think about my parents were doing when they were my age, but as far I know my dad was on drugs and my mom was “struggling to make ends meet”. As least that’s what she always says…
I’m 28, and by now, my mother had an 8 year old and a 6 year old, who was me. I can’t even imagine having two children right now. Where would they go? What would they do? #GoneWithTheWind
I don’t think I’m going to have children until I’m in my 30s, because this generation is more focused on success than the stability of family. I can up and leave whenever I want; my parents didn’t have/don’t have that luxury.
I kind of feel the same way. My Dad was 26 almost 27 when I was born. I’m older than he was when my parents had my younger brother. I feel grown but in a diferent way. I can’t describe it but there’s being an adult and then there is adult (I’m not living just for myself). I’ve read the articles about men (mostly written by women) not growing up, being immature and blah, blah, blah. I think some people want to apply 1950s 1960s social standards to today. People still think you are suppose to be in certain places at an age i.e. 28=family, 40=middle management Instead of moving at their own pace. Adolescence lasts until 25/26. I think that our parents were forced to grow up too fast in certain ways. Which I think is one of the reasons the divorce rate has been high for the past few decades.
well i was feeling every retrospective today bc its my kid’s bday and he changed me more than i could have ever imagined. He definately has shaped me and changed me more than any other singular or collective thing i have done. traveling, school, work, nothing compares to how much I have learned from him. i wholeheartedly recommend parenthood. It will definately make you grow and plus who is gonna bring you a glass of water when you get old?
Great Post Champie Poo Poo!
I’m 27 and I consider myself to be grown. Not because of my age, but because I take care of myself. I pay my bills. I budget. I save and I plan for the future. While my parents might make suggestions or give advice, I am the one making the final decision. Everything I do now effects me the most. No I don’t have a family, but in my eyes because of the strides I have made, my family can now have more than I had. I know you aren’t equating adulthood to having a family, but you are comparing your milestones to your parents. Having a family is a milestone, but not the only one. You have accomplished so much in the short time you have been a live. You co-author the best blog in the world. It doesn’t get more grown man than that.
Exactly!
“But, I just don’t feel as grown as he looked, and I’m beginning to wonder if I ever will.”
Champ my pops is a 78 year old man who walks with a stroke-induced limp and a cane and I still cannot fathom how I can be as good of a man as he is. I only strive to be an approximation of what kind of a grown-a** man that Steve Young Sr is. Add in the fact that I’m 31 and my brother just turned 33 yesterday we are men of very different worlds so I know he from time to time may just look at my actions and shake his head. Then again, he may understand.
“singleness” in the census sense”
- I never thought about it like that. I refuse to hitch my adult status to me having papers on someone and children. Yes, I very much want to be married but I just don’t see myself as being incomplete the way I am right now. Going back to my pops I honestly thinks I’m doing okay in this department because he’s the first to ask “How’s Moneypenny?” (he doesn’t call her that) when I call or go home. This could be due to the fact that he didn’t get married until he was 31 so maybe that has shaped his perspective.
My point is Champ that we (sons) who have good fathers will always feel as if we aren’t meeting the standards set by our fathers. Maybe it’s a self-inflicted neurosis or some other mental block that sons just have. I still say that all men have daddy issues but they don’t always skew negative. I just look at mine, which I think are positive, as one of those “good problems” that Chris Partlow and Marlo’s reptilian a** were talking about.
“Champ my pops is a 78 year old man who walks with a stroke-induced limp and a cane and I still cannot fathom how I can be as good of a man as he is”
SWOOOOOOON!
+1
“My point is Champ that we (sons) who have good fathers will always feel as if we aren’t meeting the standards set by our fathers.”
and there it is….. well said and true man
I refuse to hitch my adult status to me having papers on someone and children.
Agreed.
And being proud and impressed with our parents’ accomplishments does not deny the fact that we are adults in our own right.
Great post. I’m 38 and still not as old as my dad was when I was born (41). I don’t think people ever actually FEEL wiser and more mature regardless of how much (or little) they grow. If you watch old folks age to the point of dependence on others they seem in utter shock that they are not 120% capable anymore. Recent quote from my old as dad, “I think I’m getting old.”
Wow Champ… you’re so deep (lol… don’t do it)
Anyway, on the real I think every generation does that comparison to the last of “how do I measure up”. When my Mom was my age she had 2 kids, was married, had moved to a whole new country without her Mom and Dad and was husslin her @ss to keep it all together… and then there’s me who while I’m definitely going after my (dream)career and taking personal/financial risks that she never did, seeing places she’s never been and meeting people that she only hears about… I still feel like she’s got “big bank” and I’m just playing along with hopes I’m at least even with what she’s got, but I’m not.
Seems to me tho, and this is from what I see, that women take this comparison to heart a little more than men. We see our families and think about our barren condos and single family houses and feel some kinda way… kinda inadequate… not always, but sometimes. Now, you might think this is some Napoleonisk Complex where I feel short on life so I over compensate at work. The truth is I over compensate at work now so that when I’m ready to have the family life I can enjoy it and not be husslin and constantly running like my Mom was when we were young… at least that’s what I’ve been telling myself. I remember not having her attention most times because she had ALOT on her plate(maybe too much at times) and I just don’t want that for my kids… it’s really that simple.
No no no not “her @SS” but HER @SS *OFF… oh NO! My mom was NOT… you hear ME? NOT a prostitute!
LOL, Yeah…So and those typos.
Not to mention… ME?… NOW?… WITH KIDS? *passes out*
DITTO!!!
I was thinking about this.. On Monday I went to work early in the morning, didn’t eat breakfast..so grabbed a whole wheat bagel. Worked til 5 pm, (had a salad and milk shake for lunch..mmm..chocolate). Window shopped at Target (roaming aimlessly through the aisles looking at things I had no intention of buying). After getting home at 7..left the house to take a walk along Lake Merritt, came home, surfed the web, had cornflakes and bananas for dinner and didn’t go to sleep until midnight.
Where does a child fit in to this (random and irresponsible) schedule?
This was a pretty chill day for me. However, I do so many different things where having kids just would not fit.
But my friend told me that once you have a child..your whole way of thinking changes.. I STILL can’t imagine it though.
I actually think about this often… “how would a child fit into this?”… and I feel so uneasy. I’ve heard that before as well “that your way of thinking changes” and I believe it… ever notice when a child is around everyone is so aware of all the dangers (pointy tabletops, difficult to maneuver steps, random sh*t on the floor they’ll pick-up and eat, etc)? So I know once the time comes for us to be mothers the instinct will kick in accordingly(for most of us… I hope). My thing is I REALLY REALLY REALLY like my freedom right now. I like ME right now, careless and fancy-free… and a baby in the game would
PISS ME OFFultimately change that… it would make me someone’s mother… And I’m obviously not ready to care for someone else like that… yet.Keep it real girl.. it would TICK ME OFF if I couldn’t got to the midnight showing of Harry Potter because I couldn’t find a sitter. LOL
(changed the word for moderation..but yeah, I was totally thinking the other one)
You got it YS. I love my freedom and my money and losing it scary. I always hear people with kids say “I realized it wasn’t all about me” and they usually say that happily. I guess I’m actually scared of that feeling too. I suppose that realization is inevitable though. Perhaps having a little baby at the same time makes it easier to deal with?
Ion’t WIP and to find out, it would be too late at that point… #I’mGood
LOL why’d i IMMEDIATELY see “deep deez” as the greatest “deez” of all time. lmbo. i’m glad you put that caveat in there. lol.
“Wow Champ…you’re so deep…”
I’m sorry Y.S…but
That’s what she said.
@Tes and @Muze… see, yuh hard-headed lol (uh oh, don’t! lol)
I wuv you doe
ehug
I know by this time my parents had me and just had my brother. So I, currently childless, am under the scrutiny of “when are the grand-children coming?” My little teenage cousin getting pregnant took a little of the pressure off (hooray?). I’m terrified of becoming a parent. I bet your father was probably a little petrified too. But how often do you see photos of people looking petrified? You just say “cheese” and remember that day as a happy one.
I think I am, officially, grown (30 as of a couple weeks ago). I feel those articles though because the biggest difficulty I found being single in my area is the lack of “grown a$$ men” that were handling business anywhere near as well as I have. The work ethic is suffering- and I doubt it’s just a man thing, but I guess it weighs heavier on men because y’all are supposed to be the bread winners. VSBs, can you get your roll boys together?
@WIP
“So I, currently childless, am under the scrutiny of “when are the grand-children coming?”
I’m in the same boat. My mother had 3 children by the time she was 21 (I’m number 3). So my being in my 30′s with no kids gets a major side-eye in my family.
I was recently talking to a male acquaintance who’s about to turn 30 . He was rather surprised that he wasn’t having any come to Jesus type thoughts as he approached his third decade on earth. I just assumed that things like age and such didn’t matter as much to men as women so I was surprised to read Champ’s post.
I remember when I turned 27 and had the same types of thoughts about my mom (she had me at 26). I had accomplished more professionally than she, but societally (for her time anyways) she had me beat, read: married with two kids, a house, and a job. When I turned 30 she was recovering from spine surgery and I was helping take care of her (feeding, bathing, and even helping her walk, etc.). Talk about a paradigm shift! Here I was approaching a milestone birthday and life had dealt me a hand that I could only describe as a m!ndfcuk. It was something serious.
Like Champ, I’ve been more places and experienced more things. I’m taller than she and a better cook, but I think I’m as grown as she was at my age, but a different kind of grown nonetheless. Great post, Champ. Thanks for sharing and sh*t.
Where is it written that our parents have to be the litmus test for our ‘adulthood’? When my Dad was my age, he’d already had two kids, just purchased his second house and married his second wife. BUT…. he also only had a high-school education and literally walked into a Ford plant off the street for his first real job [that he kept for the next 30 years]. He told me once that it would break his heart if I ended up working in a plant like him and he was doing it so I wouldn’t have to [emphasis placed on getting a decent education]. I felt I owed to both parents to continue my education [college, grad school] to try and go further and achieve what they couldn’t. And to a certain extent I have. My one salary is what they both made combined, however with this economy it doesn’t really feel like I’ve “made it”.
I’m sure most of us single and childless 20-30 year olds may feel like we’re missing out sometimes but honestly that grass ain’t always as verde as you think. Our generation has a lot more to deal with than our predecessors and for some of us maybe the wife and 2.5 kids thing isn’t really the best option yet. I think it’s best just to live your life, walk your own path and make your own unique life discoverys. And when you’re ready it’ll happen.
Like I mentioned above, many of our parents don’t want us to necessarily be in the same situations they were in at our ages. They enjoy watching us do the things they didn’t get a chance to do and the things they never would have thought were possible (getting advanced degrees, traveling, etc.). I’m sure they worked so hard so we would have these types of choices.
Beautiful post Champ.
And I’m 1000% sure your Dad had similar “is this my life” feelings at that age. We all do.
I hope you aren’t comparing yourself now to your dad now because you will NEVER be equal or greater. He will always have taken more breaths than you and seen more days–even if you’ve seen more continents. Our generation is NOT as good as the generation of our grandparents. As much as we want to say things are different and that’s why we’re different, that’s BS. As a unit, we are less than. We have excuse after excuse about why we have really not exceeded them. *adds what I just wrote to growing list of things that sadden me* Yeah we’re behind and lesser and weaker. I blame high fructose corn syrup.
In alot of ways, I see regression in the things that matter the most.
Good point.
While we are busy becoming “responsible” for ourselves we’ve chosen not to commit to anything or anyone. We’ve lost sight of the big picture.
i agree
“I blame high fructose corn syrup.”
smgdh….no lie
you right too lol
Waiting for Peter Pan?
That would be an interesting documentary LOL.
Very introspective post.
Great post. Honestly I feel the same way. In many ways I feel like I’m ahead of the game because I’m 25 and married with degrees/professional stability but when I compare myself to my pops I often feel like I don’t measure up. It’s weird because he didn’t get married until age 28, first child at 35 but I still feel inadequate in comparison to the traditional family values. I guess it’s great to have someone in your life that you can look up to in such a way though.
I don’t have my mother around and I’m still a few years younger than she was when she had me. I’m 30 this month.
When I look back at old photos of my mother I find that I can’t even imagine what she was thinking at the time. Maybe it’s because we weren’t close; maybe it’s because I see my life as being so different from hers.
She was already a mother of two (my brother and sister) by the time she had me. While I have two foster kids; my 9 and 4 year-old male first cousins; I have no kids of my own. Don’t plan to have any either though I have five younger sisters.
That being said, it seems I took on more responsibility at a younger age than she did. I was big sister, babysitter, and my grandmother’s caretaker when I was in high school.
Even with so many kids, my mother stayed into things that I never was and never will be into. I didn’t drink, smoke or party when I was younger cause I didn’t have the time or the desire to. Now that I’m older, I still don’t really have the time or the desire to do any of those things and wonder if I should feel like I missed out.
I don’t know how I would measure my maturity because I’ve always felt more (perhaps too) mature than others my age. I do know that I don’t use motherhood or marriage as maturity milestones because I’ve witnessed firsthand that you don’t have to be mature to do either.
And on that downbeat, let me stop before I get anymore self-reflective and sad.
” I do know that I don’t use motherhood or marriage as maturity milestones because I’ve witnessed firsthand that you don’t have to be mature to do either.”
Cosign!!!
Great post man. More men need to look at their fathers and learn from them. My parents were not there, bu they taught what “NOT to do”, and their demons led them to dependency and if I’m to be different I need to change my state of mind. Again great post.
yeah … i have these moments often. at my age my mother was married, had a 5 year old (me) and would soon be pregnant with a big-headed little boy. i often think of this when i turn a year older and see myself no closer to where she was. lol.
as Tonya said though, i think our parents are proud of us for what we have achieved in our own right. i’ve had this conversation with my mother before and she’s expressed great pride in me and what i’ve done with myself, as well as my siblings. the fact that my younger sister is 21 and has been living in her own apartment going to school, buying her own car, etc… my mom looks at that with just as much pride as we do at them. the focus of our generation is on career and its successes, and then family life achievements. it was somewhat inverted in their young adult days. family (and creating and being the heads of one) came first, then they grew together financially.
i am looking forward to getting married and imparting the wise advice to my children my mom has bestowed upon me, but i know it will come on God’s schedule, not on mine.
This is a really great post Champ. Your ability to self-reflect is a sign of growth and maturity in itself as immature people wouldn’t even think along those lines. I was just having a convo with my male cousins last night about the modern day man. I do believe that there are alot of good men out there who have their priorities in the right order however there are alot of immature men who ruin it for others. A good man to me is a guy who is able to lead, love and provide. This isn’t as common as it was back in the day. I feel like we’re in the era of the Kanye’s. The diva man who puts more emphasis on fashion, primping, and calling women trolls/b*tches while he justifies his every action. Or the Plies wanna bees who put emphasis on carbon copying the image of “thug life”. The real man kind of walks in the shadows because these dudes are at the forefront of our televisions, etc. They have little growth because they almost never focus on self. They focus on others, image and what other people do. This blocks any learning from life. It seems like alot of men have their priorities in the wrong order and don’t know what it’s like to actually be a man. Consider yourself lucky Champ that you had a father to teach you what so many seem to lack. It’s not about being like your father. It’s about taking his example and creating your own path. Our times are different from his but we can still carry the same principles. You place importance on life, being husband and a father and that is just like the old school man. I wish more thought like that.
I feel like we’re in the era of the Kanye’s. The diva man who puts more emphasis on fashion, primping, and calling women trolls/b*tches while he justifies his every action. Or the Plies wanna bees who put emphasis on carbon copying the image of “thug life”. The real man kind of walks in the shadows because these dudes are at the forefront of our televisions, etc.
You ain’t never lied. God bless the day I was able to meet a real man and have enough common sense to keep him around.
**likes this entire comment**
*finger snaps* YES SFG!!!!
My favorite part: It’s not about being like your father. It’s about taking his example and creating your own path. Our times are different from his but we can still carry the same principles. You place importance on life, being husband and a father and that is just like the old school man. I wish more thought like that.
-As do I, hun… as do I.
“It’s not about being like your father. It’s about taking his example and creating your own path.”
I, literally, got a chill when I read this. It’s SO true!
I love this whole comment SFG!! I wanted to say more but my mind is kind of muddled today so I will just say I love the comment.
Thanks boos!
Good post.
It’s weird for me because I have felt grown for a long time – definitely way before I was supposed to. My family was a bit dysfunctional, so my maturity level is at or beyond that of my mother and stepfather. Also, the people most likely to make me feel like I’m not a grownup are classmates that are reaching certain milestones that I have not reached yet. But then, I refocus on what is going on in my life, and on what I have and have accomplished, and I stop worrying about keeping up with the Jones’s.
I thought I was the only one that compared my life to when my mother was my age. Sometimes I can’t help but to be in awe of what my mother had done when she was my age. When my mother was my age, 27, she had me, married for four years, and a homeowner. I am none of the above. But ah well, like was mentioned above you have to live your life for yourself. Also, as was said to me before, it was a different time. People got married earlier. Also, it was a different economic climate and different culturally, so that makes it harder to compare.
In addition to my earlier comment I would like to say that times have changed economically. The world is not as simple as it was 40-50 years ago. My Dad had a good paying blue-collar job at Ford while he finished college when I was born. Those opportunities are just not there. It was easy to have kids younger when there were means to support them. Minimum wage use to be a living wage also. I think its better that men or men and women are waiting longer to get married and start families. One thing that people don’t realize is that the post WWII era with folks getting married young and having families was not normal although people think of it as the norm. Our parents grew up in a time where women didn’t have too many options and had to get married to survive. Men supported families on one income. Men got married just to have sex. With so much changing over the last 30-50 the environment to do what my Dad did is gone. I tell my parents that even though
they dealt with racism they still had easier access to jobs and opportunities. They may not have been high status white-collar jobs with fancy titles but they still fed and clothed you with money to spare.
Great post, Champ. I’ve been thinking about the exact same thing for quite a while now.
Champ,
Well written and thought provoking. I think men today have a right to feel as you do because of cultural shifts. With women going to and graduating from college at a faster rate than men, as well as their increased wages, men today don’t face the same societal pressure to take care of women as they once were expected to, which undoubtedly aids a man’s maturation process.
Secondly, our music ridicules the man who can’t afford the expensive cars and jewelry and does not praise the simple man who takes care of his simple (well, not so simple), adult responsibilities such as raising a family and being faithful. It has a bigger psychological effect on us than we think and makes us not feel as “grown” as men before us who weren’t immersed in a culture that promotes superficial wealth that is fairly unrealistic for the common man.
Then again, I could be wrong. Good post. Take care.
“men today don’t face the same societal pressure to take care of women as they once were expected to, which undoubtedly aids a man’s maturation process.”
I love this point, althought I don’t I pray music hasn’t had that strong of an effect on the family. I think there are a variety of factors with music being a minor one; the phenomenon we’re discussing breaks across race and income IMO. There is a generation of people that have learned they don’t have to work as hard as their parents. This was probably the parents’ wish, but not necessarily what’s best for our society and economy.
I really enjoyed this entry. Though I’m only 24 (hitting the “big” 2-5 in May-ugh, lol), I too, have sat back and compared my life to my parent’s. My mom was 15, Dad, 18 when I came into the picture–but I admired their maturity (Grandma told me she was told by my mother NOT to help her raise me) once she was with child, because that molded her into the person she is today (my dad on the other hand, had PP syndrome…until he hit his 40s).
Depsite my mother struggling, and dealing with her own personal demons, she persevered (with TWO kids in tow) which I STILL honor about her to this very day. My mother gushes about me–the fact that I didn’t follow in her footsteps (went to college–(she was going to school, but when my brother came, she stopped, so she never finished)–, no kids, independent, etc), yet I always feel that my mom will always be better than me, IMO. Her determination and strength rubbed off on me–but again, I’m not even on the same spectrum as my Mother.
#MOM<3
Champ, I think this post is pretty great. I think it really communicates how so many of us feel, both men and women. Sometimes, I feel like a grown up. However, more often than not, I feel like a 17yr old just discovering who I am and what I want to do with the rest of my life. The only problem is I’m 25. Furthermore, there are several people around me, both friends and folks I just went through college and high school with, who are married, engaged, pregnant, with children or a combination of one or most.
Initially, my reaction is, “WTH, you’re married, you’re pregnant, you have HOW MANY?” Then it dawns on my. “Alana, you’re about to be 26yrs old. This is what folks do around this time”. But, in my head, I’m 17 and 17yr olds just don’t get married and have children on purpose. It’s not something I’m purposing to do anytime soon. When I tell people, I can’t foresee myself having children or being married before I’m 40 and 30 respectively, they look at me quite dumbfounded.
I have greater ambitions, marriage and mommy hood aren’t in the forefront of them.
Saudade
Beijos e abraços
verysmartdaddies.com…
make that happen cap’n
yessssss. i project in 5 years… this. lol.
lol kids gotta make it out of the house first…..
I’ve written about my father privately since I was 8 years old. Never published a word of it–partly out of reverence–partly out of reticence. That will all change today. I LOVE Dad dearly. But that LOVE has been conflicted with feelings of inadequacy and disappointment that I couldn’t understand…until I had a son of my own. Reading this yesterday forced me to wrestle with my perspective. We are nothing alike–but we’re the same. I hear his younger voice in my head and know that he was more right than wrong. But we don’t talk about it. We don’t talk about much of anything. Our conversation is limited mostly to saying, “Hey.” And for many years that “hey” has been our all-encompassing, Smurf-esque substitute for everything. It’s how we’ve said, “I LOVE you”, “Thank you” or “I understand.” That “hey” keeps us safe…from expressing our complex feelings too intensely.
I now realize that parents deserve credit from what we learn from their errors and omissions, just as much as what can be learned from their successes. But I also realize that my son may not come to this realization until he’s reflecting as a selfless father, rather than a selfish child. At 21, we were almost the exact same age when the responsibility of raising a son was first thrust (pun unintended) upon us. And his pride is evident as he watches his grandson approach the teenage years. Neither of us really want to show-off parental report report cards. We just want to do do our best. As a kid I “knew” that he wasn’t doing enough. As an adult, and especially as a father. I KNOW that did the best he “knew” to do.
Very Smart Daddies would be a great idea to build. And Champ, you just laid the cornerstone.
wow… I’d read it.
why am i in moderation?
Great post Champ…your reflection is definitely not uncommon (as you can see in the comments). What I take from my life and my experiences is that all that I’m able to do is because of what my mom wasn’t able to do and what she pushed for me to have. Lets face it, raising a child, creating and shaping a person who will go on to be and do so many things (when given tools, opportunities and assistance) can and probably will never measure up to whatever you are doing now.
Its my moms’ sacrifices that helped us (me and my sisters) to be who we are and even though I don’t have the same struggles nor am I in any of the situations that she was in at my age, I’m so much more proud of who I am today, because I know she is the reason. *cues The Reason by Hoobastank*
Champ,
You are not alone. I too share the exact same concerns about measuring up to my perception of ‘maturity’ as a result of assigning a certain nobility and maturity(as you so eloquently put it) to what I believe a man at my age should embody.
I struggle with it personally, because I don’t ‘feel’ as though I am my age…or what I perceive I should be feeling like at my age. Secondly, it certainly doesnt help that I physically look significantly younger than I actually am, especially to the rest of the world.
You’d be surprised how difficult it is to view oneself as the ‘grown man’ you think you are supposed to be, when the mirror doesn’t reflect the conceptual physical image of a ‘grown man’. I find that I have to constantly remind myself of my age, particularly because I possess such a very youthful spirit. Despite my reminders, I take great care not to become force-ripe (a West Indian term for inentionally ripening or maturing before ones time). Anyway, enough of that.
I try not to inject personal or intimate tidbits about myself within my comments, but today I made an exception.
Great topic Champ. A break from the norm, but a welcomed break for the forum.
Piggybacking a bit here on the right honorable gentleman Mr. SoBo’s remarks…
Hi Champ,
I kinda thought Ms. Hymowitz’s recent articles would wind their way over to this side of the woods, what I refer to as the Afrosphere, and you and more importantly Sista Toldja, didn’t disappoint. I’ve been a bit busy with a few other things of late, but given the sheer enormity of response to her stuff, I suppose at some point I’ll have to address it.
In the meantime though, here is what I left over at ST’s place:
ST,
I’m still ruminating on your take on Ms. Hymowitz’s WSJ articles (she also did a live chat, too) and may wind up doing something on the whole ball of wax before long.
In the meantime, I just wanted to ask you so as to be clear:
You argue that much of Hip Hop music is misogynistic and this, along with other elements of the artform make it “immature”. OK.
So, are you saying, that if I chose to read, say, Philosophy of The Bedroom, does that make me more or less misogynistic, than if I instead listened to Biggie, Tupac or Gangstarr? Does my reading of the former signal me as “mature” or not, and why?
If my understanding of Norse mythology is informed by way of Jack Kirby and Stan Lee, does that make me “immature” and why? Please explain?
If I am able to discuss, in detail, the deeper meaning of say, the nature of the Force, does that then mean that I am a shallow Manboy who refuses to grow up? Again, I need clarity. Please explain?
As I said above, I am still attempting to wrap my mind around what you wrote, which was based on somethings Ms. Hymowitz has written, and which I have some difficulty understanding as well, so please forgive my being unable to take things any further than my three simple questions above. But as I’ve indicated, assuming I am able to sort all of this out, I may have a more cogent set of thoughts to present to you and everyone else in due course. In the meantime, looking forward to your responses. Thanks!
The Obsidian
*updates spreadsheet* Sobo looks young.
Yes, I completely cosign all of this. I look young for my age as well. Also, I feel young. I don’t mind doing a kartwheel into the kitchen while cooking dinner for the fam and doing a booty dance as I bring it out. Na’mean? lol Seriously, how you feel is how you feel. You can’t let society tell you how you’re supposed to feel at a certain age. We always talk about force ripe but that’s exactly what our parents do to us sometime with their work ethic. My mom put me to work at such a young age (cooking, cleaning, etc) that now I feel like I do old lady things in comparison to my friends. It’s a hard balance. As long as you’re able to lead, love and provide…you’re good.
@SFG
I saw your other post above and I must say, you’re dropping some gems on here today. Very wise and great commentary. Loving it.
Anyway, I hope I didnt trivialize the post since I chose to focus on a more superficial side of the issue. Everyone was doing such a great job commenting from a more introspective standpoint and its relation to external factors(i.e changing times, role models etc), that I felt compelled to broaden the perspective a bit.
I actually just talked about this with my Dad the other day. I do think there’s a difference in the men we are now vs. the men our fathers were at our age. It’s not just in looks, but even the music. When I learned that Sam Cooke was 32 when he sang “A Change is Gonna Come,” I was dumbfounded. He sounds like he’s lived an entire lifetime, and the pain in his voice is testament to the injustices our parents suffered even as children. Like the students at Little Rock High School in 1957 who attended school accompanied by armed soldiers and tanks…definitely put some years on them ahead of their time.
In other ways, life is more complicated now than it has ever been. I don’t think any generation has experienced as much continual and rapid change in technology, lifestyle, and employment as our generation has. Knowledge is so accessible these days and with it the pressure to have everything done five days ago. When I was coming up, being a lawyer or doctor was the business, but now there are so many unemployed lawyers, and young physicians will tell you it’s not like it used to be. Computers were hot, then they shipped a lot of those jobs overseas. Financial services was hot too, but not when there were so many unemployed traders walking around NY after the meltdown in 08. Less than five years ago, so many people were rushing to make $$$ of the rising real estate prices, but some got in late and are tens of thousands of dollars short now, owing money when they need to sell…
Sometimes our parents are in awe of how we are able to navigate this environment as well as we have.
“Do not seek to be like the men of old, seek what they sought” – Zen proverb
It’s much easier said than done, but I do think that in order to achieve the degree of maturity that Champ wrote about, and so many of us (myself included) seem to desire, we have to redefine the terms for the world we live in. While actual age isn’t relative, the concept of being “grown” can change.
We have our parents, grands, etc. examples to follow, but our goal cannot be to be like them. We have to seek out something. For past generations, it was creating the possibility of a better life for your particular group (family, ethnicity, etc). Now, I think our responsibility (as cliche as it sounds), is to take the many advantages that we’ve been blessed with and do something for the world.
I firmly believe that such active engagement will help to redefine the concepts of being “grown” for us. This would likely alleviate some of the angst that many of us feel at this stage in life. People are clearly made and socialized differently today, but that doesn’t mean that we can’t measure up. Perhaps, we just need to use a different yardstick.
“Do not seek to be like the men of old, seek what they sought” – Zen proverb
Absolutely love this quote.
As the youngest person in the room, my job was to do what any youngest person in a room full of loved and respected elders is usually supposed to do: listen, fetch cans of Pepsi, fact check in the most non-condescending way possible, and get teased for my reliance on my phone.
Oh, so running to the liquor store, mixing drinks, and keeping the glasses filled… that’s just my family, huh? Oh. Aight.
Many of those who have commented thus far talk about not feeling like an adult. Isn’t adulthood a choice?
If by adulthood you mean responsibility, yes you choose to be responsible. I’d argue that’s a choice people can make at any age. But the issue is, who and what we’re responsible for has changed so much that our personal lives don’t look like the people we emulated as role models.
And truth be told, sometimes our parents didn’t want all of that responsibility. They didn’t have as much choice in the matter. They raised us to be different, but in terms of domestic and career choices, we don’t have models to follow in this new age.
@ Mood Indigo
Who would you say that we are responsible to today?
Good question. Honestly, in this day and age we’re mostly responsible to ourselves. When we get there, we’re responsible to our families and loved ones. But we’ve lost the concept of community.
We were raised to be anyone we wanted to be and we spend a lot of time chasing that dream. For example, instead of asking if delayed marriage is better for our community, we’re getting married and having kids much later because it fits the process of self-actualization I’m not saying its better or worse, but the expectation of subscribing to social pressures is much less today than it was in the past.
And its not just here but I see that happening in many other countries too. People aren’t as willing to subscribe to social pressures in the name of the “greater good.”
“Isn’t adulthood a choice”
I don’t think it is. If you’re 35 years old still doing the stuff you did when you were 12, you have not chosen to remain a child. You’re an adult with a f*cked up perspective (most likely). I’d say the quality of adulthood is a choice, but not wanting to grow up has nothing to do with the clock on the wall.
@ WIP
If it’s not a choice, is there a age where one enters “adulthood”?
Well there’s a legal age. There also comes a point where your caregivers no longer feel responsible for your day to day needs. You can create that point (leave home and take care of yourself) or you can force it (milk your relatives dry until they tell you to kick rocks). Traditionally his has occurred between 16 and 20 (who knows) but around this time people feel the need to do for themselves. Even if they still live with their parents, usually they have jobs and pay for their own foolishness. These man-made items aside, physically, I’d bet there’s an age range probably related to some biological processes that solidify adult status.
S/N: And if you’re a 35 year-old that feels like a 13 year-old, your a$$ is still going to jail if you “mess with” an actual 13 year old so in that regard, “adulthood” is very much not a choice but a legal and physical reality. (Saw Lisa Ling last night)
@jay totha dee – “Isn’t adulthood a choice?”
To understand your question better, it is necessary for you to define ‘adulthood’? What is ‘adulthood’ in your opinion?
Nice post Champ, very profound.
I haven’t had a lot of time to comment lately but I’m always lurking. I’m really enjoying the book by the way!
Man, this is well written. As a man who idolizes his father and in many ways just exactly like my father (we were born 32 years and 1 hour apart) I have dealt with several days of inadequacy and, dare I say, shame when I try and stack myself up with my Dad. When he was my age he had three kids, had been married to my mom 10 years, had a good paying job and had 2 cars in the driveway and here I sit with none of that save the job, and my contract is up next week so I won’t have that either. The world is not the same, the country’s economic footing is not the same, and neither are the people that currently try to survive nowadays. Even though the times were hard for my father, and a lot of our fathers who were coming into adulthood through segregation (especially here in the south) and the civil rights movement it seems that we still have to try even harder than they to equal their achievements and not all are willing to do so. **shrug**
But like someone said up there, those of us sons that had awesome fathers will likely NEVER see ourselves in the same light as we see our Dads. I know I never will, not that I’ll be that bad of a man, simply because my Dad is that good of one.
I had just written about this myself…
Personal thought -
We are so consumed by the “this is my life theory” that the very essence of why we are created to live on this fine earth has been knocked to the bottom of the barrel because of our own selfishness. I am not saying go out here and marry the first “skirt” you see but evaluate your life for what it is and where you want it to be and make chooses. Stop dragging your feet and see it’s more than “your life”
So true,
And that’s the difference between the generations and probably the reason why we feel so inadequate stacked up again our forebears (in terms of the these life matters). We live in iSociety. For all of its advantages, it can still leave a great deal of emptiness. That emptiness comes from the notion that “it’s all about me and mine”
Past generations realized that they owed those who came before. We tend to only pay lip service to that point.
@MrExcelsior
I disgree a bit…
Yes, we’re selfish. Yes, because of that we’re maturing at a slower rate. But, I think for most of us we’re not “measuring up” we’ve been told not too by our parents. How many of us have had our parents tell us about how tell would have done things differently? Have been told by our PARENTS to take advantage of these opportunities and seek OUR dreams first, have a family later? Don’t rush they said… that’s wisdom.
The fact is we can’t measure our accomlishments to their’s because we’re playing a completely different game… nothing is the same as it was. Nothing… including the concept of success.
@
Stop dragging your feet and see it’s more than “your life”
-I’m sorry but I find it far more irresponsible to bring someone else into a life(situation) when I’m not totally done enjoying what it has to offer yet… call it selfish if you want.
@H… sorry
OMGAW!… good luck deciphering them typos!
“nothing is the same as it was. Nothing… including the concept of success.”
Not totally accurate. I certainly agree that where we find ourselves today is extremely different from where our parents and grands found themselves. However, most of life’s general principles do not change. The importance of seeing beyond yourself is one of those principles.
There is no doubt that we, as members of this present generation, have opportunities that many of those who paved the way never could have dreamed of. We also owe it to ourselves (and to them) to make the most of those opportunities, be it by advancing in our careers or social endeavors, or by having the “fun” that they didn’t get to have. However, here is where we have to be careful not to lose the broader sense of life that they were much more keenly aware of.
This is not to say that everyone should be married for society’s sake, or that anyone should opt not to make all of the money they can or have the “success” that they themselves define. But, is that success going to be lasting? I believe our parents and grands poured (and pour) so much into us because they were conscious that all that can really be left of what they do is a legacy. The beautiful memories and stories shared in the comments today illustrate that notion. I fear that we don’t get this very important point.
Furthermore, I think the beauty of our present place in time is that we can find non-traditional ways of applying traditional principles. One doesn’t have to have a family in the traditional sense to affect the life of a child. One doesn’t have to choose a traditional career path in order to be a positive role model of have a strong impact on the culture. The most important point is that we don’t become too consumed by what we’re doing personally so that we can dedicate some time to the plight of the collective, however we choose to do so.
Yeah, you are right of course. I hope what I stated above didn’t give the impression that I believe we’re not “all in this together”… I just think it’s harder to give wholeheartedly when you don’t feel completed.
Not at all. I feel you on the last statement too.
I agree wholeheartedly
I’d agree with you that we need to live for more than ourselves. But are you implying that our purpose as adults is to pair up and procreate? Honestly, we have more than enough people on our planet. Plenty of kids too. At some point our goal as a species has to go beyond having and raising kids, because we seem to have doing that quite well.
As for dragging our feet…for men who want economic stability, a career and a family, in today’s time when men don’t have the luxury of having a full-time domestic wife, we usually have to delay marriage to make it to the same places the previous generation did. Same goes for women too who want economic security that’s not tied to a man
And, if we’re talking about fulfillment…let’s go back and ask some of our parents how they feel about the sacrifices they made. Some are just starting to pursue what they always wanted to. Others divorced or are getting divorced after the kids leave home. Starting a family is a beautiful endeavor, but it’s not an automatic path to fulfillment, especially if its done to ‘fill a void’ somewhere. You should start a family because you find someone you love, not because you think it will make you happy or make up for some perceived inadequacy.
I agree that we should be living for more than ourselves, but that can mean different things. It could mean a career of service or contributing to society in some way (culture, technology, health, activism).
my bad too… @H
@Yeah…So & Mood Indigo –
By no means do I say fill a void by just procreating, my point is we must live beyond our wants of financial stability or “being in the right place in life” in order to begin life, they are excuses (imo). There will never be a perfect time for anything and yes you can prepare but will that be enough? Where is the fight to continue a legacy?
Why do you have to make it sound like preparing for a family is separate from “fight(ing) to continue a legacy”… that’s exactly why I’m preparing, I want my legacy to have a solid foundation to grow and continue long after me… And, while there may never really be a “right place in life” there is a better place in life and when my children come God-willing I’d like to be better equipped to give them the tools they need to excel beyond what I’ve provided.
I kind of read it like can you do both. Can one prepare a solid foundation and continue a legacy? When is the time right or that better place in life?
I think you can. I big part of success in preparation. And why are we acting like people don’t plan when they have kids? Many couples plan it out… when they’ll have children. Just because it’s not the first step in the plan doesn’t mean it’s not a priority… I think this generation has a better understanding of the importance of having something solid (financially and emotionally) and we also have a better opportunity to be successful at achieving it… we just got a few kinks we need to work out still (up first: this ratchet economy).
Today’s topic is definitely bringing out the lurkers.
Gulty as charged…
I often feel like I live a double life because living on my own since 18 years old and having the status in my family as the “responsible” one came with a lot of pressure to make the right choices, do the right things and essentially…..be grown up. On the other hand, I still feel like the little tomboy who raced barefoot in the street who worried less about taking care of things. This is likely why in relationships I tend to be very playful once I’m comfortable with a person. It’s my escapism. Overall, I feel very much like an adult even in comparison to my mother. However, her journey makes me wonder if I could ever make being selfless and dedicated look so easy. Shout out to Mama CNotes for committing herself to being the best wife and mother she could be.
great post man. my dad had me when he was 33 so i’ve got some more years before i reach the age he was when he had me. although i do think i’ve had better experiences in my life than my father when he was around my age that depends on who you ask.
true my dad was born in nigeria and had a harsh childhood but he decided to up and leave his surroundings that was comfortable in and travel the world. my father in his mid 20′s lived in spain, portugal, italy, cuba, miami and then he finally settled in dc. my father is fluent in yoruba, english, portugal and spanish. he’s probably seen things i can only imagine.
like you i’m in no rush to have a family right now because i’m focusing on doing what i can to make myself a better father so when i do have children i’ll be the best father i can be. my father had 5 children and his father had too many children to count (4 wives). i know for a fact that i will never come anywhere close to either of them in that department. i’m just not built like that.
great post.
Me and my friends always joke around about us “growing up” and being an “adult” these days. Our idea of being grown is renting a 1/1 apt lol…
As a female, I feel the very SAME way when I look at old photos of my 21 y/o mother holding me in her hands. Growing up, my mother taught me two things, finish school and don’t get pregnant. I thought that was the key to life. Now at 26, I’m done with school and I’m still not pregnant and I don’t know what to do. My mother got pregnant and never finished school but she’s doing well and has a great life. Makes me wonder….How do I go about getting the HAPPIES!???!!!
Best post ever, BTW.
I wasn’t able to read all of the comments but this article and the Hymowitz article are all in time for this Charlie Sheen bat-sh*t meltdown that is taking place that all of the black men I know have clung too as an f-ing bible. I’ve got friends talking about this dude is the man because he’s got a bunch of chicks he lives with, make 1.2 mil an episode (or used to) and just says and does what he wants. Granted, I’m pretty free spirited but i also don’t have an obligation to impressionable children. True, dude is good television and certifiable lunatic with equal measure, but someone to praised for melting down and bringing an unstable life to his kids is not to be worshiped. Our generation just appears to like other guys who are the complete opposite of our fathers; like its taking a stance or something. Lose your facilities on your own time but not with 2 year old sons in an ear shot. Classic example of a dude that never f-ing grew up and has deciding that being “Awesome” means douching around LA. I don’t know I find this story sad but even sadder that people are idolizing this sort of behavior. Way to go Gen Y! Smh…
I must be one of the few people who feel grown in their own rights and don’t feel “less than” what her parents had accomplished by their age.
My mom was married, had me AND a doctoral degree at my age… and I only have one out of the 3. However, the path my life has taken is one that I completely relish and I feel very “grown” in my own right… Although, I would have preferred to have kids by now, I am still pretty satisfied of the choices I have made, because they were mine, and only mine. I didn’t buck down to the pressure of expectations to live a life I wouldn’t really cherish. My definition of adulthood is and remains to be able to make decisions for self and live with their consequences… and this generation has been able to do a whole lot of that if you ask me.
Maybe my perspective is somewhat different than most of you guys because my generation where I am from is still struggling with parental expectations and most of us are following paths set out by them… It is still relatively freeing (and new) to be able to set your own rules and march to your own drum beats…
I feel like you. I gave up on comparing myself to my mom years ago. She has 2 doctorates, published author and runs 2 clinics in Miami AND is a clinical director for the largest hospital in the country…so yeah I gave up!! I can say that I’m doing everything I want I to be doing. Also, mentally, I’m where I want to be. I look at my life, what I’ve accomplished, and the people around me who love me. I’m happy. I’ve had a crazy life, been through alot and rose above alot of adversity. I know my parents are very proud of me. I’ll never be that cookie cutter woman, never. I think life is about doing the best that WE can. We are not all equal and some have factors that work against them but if you can go through life to the best of YOUR ability, you’ll be fine.
^ Think that’s what Sasha and Malia are gonna go through.
Nice piece…maybe I say that because I was thinking the same thing recently. Without this rituals that bind you to another person, it is hard to feel as grown. Some of my most cherished conversations with my parents (dad is gone, mom still here) have been about this very topic.
My latest comment at Sista Toldja’s, as follows:
Hello ST,
I think faulty assumptions abound, with all due respect, not just with your take on Ms. Hymowitz’s piece(s), but with said pieces themselves. This explains, for example (and which you did not include in your review), why at last count, Ms. Hymowitz got upwards of *1500* comments in response – one of the highest responsed-to pieces in WSJ history. And the bulk and mass of said responses came from Men, who felt that Ms. Hymowitz just didn’t get it.
While you were correct to note that Ms. Hymowitz failed to take into account racial and class differenes here, she is by no means any stranger to such things. I am very familiar with her work and so know very well that she sees what has been happening in Black America for decades, now beginning to take place among those I refer to as White Folks Who Matter – which is the topic of her articles and dare I say, book.
That said, the huge problems I am having with both you and her take on all of this, is in the very nature of you both deigning to question what makes a Man, a Man – I mean, can we honestly say that Ms. Hymowitz, or you, or anyone else, would even think of putting finger to keyboard, asking why so many Women are wasting their best and most fertile years chasing degrees and working as cogs in the corporate wheel, instead of “growing up” and having babies and getting married? To ask the question, is to answer it – and we all know it. Yet, folks like you and Ms. Hymowitz feel fit to determine, for Men, what it means to be a Man. I notice that only Women do this, by and large, and that, quite frankly, isn’t only hugely disrespectful, but its also old – since, again, if Black America is any indication, such a strategem simply doesn’t work.
Moreover, you left out a key consideration as to WHY so many Men are “going their own way”; in a followop piece for the Daily Beast, Ms. Hymowitz rightly observes:
“Far worse in the bait and switch category is women’s stated preference for nice guys and actual attraction to bad boys. Now, clearly this is not true for all women. Many, maybe even most, want a guy with the sweetness of a Jimmy Stewart and sensitivity of Ashley Wilkes. But enough of them are partial to the Charlie Sheens of this world that one popular dating guru, David DeAngleo, lists “Being Too Much of a Nice Guy” as No. 1 in his “Ten Most Dangerous Mistakes Men Make With Women.” At a website with the evocative name Relationshit.com, (“Brutally honest dating advice for the cynical, bitter, and jaded,” and sociological cousin of Dating-is-Hell.com) the most highly trafficked pages are those asking the question why women don’t like good guys.”
This, I submit ST, is what is lacking both in the broader conversation on this topic, to say nothing of you and Ms. Hymowitz’s original “takes” on the matter, and which, if we’re serious, must be addressed in brutally honest fashion. The simple truth of it is that there is a growing cohort of Men who, after surveying the dating and mating scene, rightly decide that they have better options elsewhere, and avail themselves of said options. The guys that you suggest are using women as “estrogen play things” are in fact a very small slice of Men overall; they usually are NOT those who and Ms. Hymowitz gives the side eye to for choosing to play Atari or Call of Duty. Those are the winners of a vastly changed sexual marketplace; the rest are veritable losers in said SMP, and are then called upon when Women pass through their “Grrl Power” phase and are ready to settle down and have children and get married, well into their 30s and al that comes with it, and if these Men refuse then suddenly, they’re excoriated for being immature, they need to “Man Up” and so on and so forth.
Do you see what I’m saying here?
This is why I had such a difficult time getting my head around both you and Ms. Hymowitz’s articles, because at the very least, it seems both of you are so willfully blind to the facts on the ground that it strains credulity. Millions of White Folk Who Matter – to say nothing of the scores of Black Men over the decades – aren’t “going their own way” out of a vacuum, Sista. They are responding to legitimate concerns out there on the sexual market, and have said, “no thanks; I have other, if not better, things to do”. That you, or Ms. Hymowitz, may consider those things puerile or immature, is irrelevant – as irrelevant as any Man who sees a Woman exploring her options educationally and in the work-a-day world and putting off home and hearth as being self-centered. In the end, the feminists of yesterday intoned, what this is about is giving Women choice – as in, “my body, my choice” – which has become the sine qua non of our age. But such lofty intentions and aims seems to end at the skirt’s hem; when Men decide to determine for themselves what they will make of their lives, suddenly they are accosted by a virtual army of Schoolmarms wagging the finger of shame. The sheer hypocrisy of it all is enough to do the trick here, let alone all the other things I have noted, and more that I have not.
“Choice for me, but not for thee”, like a MoFo.
Hmm.
Holla back
O.
Great piece. Simply put, the world has changed. There are different “requirements” for manhood than there were before. This economy paired with the looseness of societal sexual norms has extended our collective boyhood. Being responsible literally requires more effort than ever. People used to be able to support their families on a good “job”. Now, a career takes more time, degrees, & strategy to build. Speaking personally, although I’m no swashbuckling Casanova, I am hesitant to “settle down” because of the economic side of marriage/family. No self-respecting man wants to fail their wife & kids. Especially with all the black man hating miasma going around.
Thought provoking (and makes me miss my family meetings : )
I’m the age my mother was when she had me and I was her second child. All my friends have kids and/or are married and part of me feels left behind. I feel immature sometimes because I don’t even see kids in my near future. That whole concept is foreign to me, but I’m okay with that. What is meant to be will be for me.
I’m so ICY- My vapor provides the only intervention Charlie Sheen’s crazy a$$ really needs.
WOW! A powerful and thoughtful post.
I’ll weigh in on this. I’m 37. Degrees and travelled, but no kids. By 37, MLK was on his way to a Nobel Prize, college kids were bringing down institutionalized segregation and racist governments (peacefully), and preachers in Atlanta were more focuses on leading their flocks than milking their congregation. Yea…our generation is not as mature or grown up. Where in the world would I be if my father’s generation was a self serving as me and my generation. Where would you be?