These dollars can be yours if you cook and listen, honey.
One of my homeboys has a specific mantra when it comes to doling out relationship advice. Like to hear it? Here it goes:
Men should only pursue dimes; women should settle.
While I realize how ridiculous that sounds on paper, the fact is, that’s what 99 percent of all relationship books and funny looking talking heads are really saying beneath the 12-button suits, toothy grins and “I Know Obama” buttons. They tell women to keep their standards high…within reason. But you’d never tell a man that. And why should you? There’s no man “shortage”. There’s really no reason any man should be settling for anything less than what he wants. For every beautiful woman he comes across, there are at least five more equally beautiful women with as much, if not more, to offer.
Women are told to take men at face value and realize that a man is going to be a man and he’s going to keep you safe and blow your back out and make you feel like a whoa-man. And women pretty much should accept it. All the convos about men usually center around him being ready to commit and the process it takes him to get there. That’s a mighty disconnect. It states that women are ready to get married from birth and need to realize that men aren’t and should just support and accept a man as he is and love him for what he does bring to the table, not judge him for what he doesn’t. Between the justice system, the state of Arizona, and Black pride, Black men have it tough enough out here without having to prove to their women that they are worthy of time.
Th “media” has been on this like white on rice. Forget Teairra Mari and her “Sponsor” talk…she isn’t going to sell any records anyway. She needs to forget trying to find a man who takes care of her and find a man who will love her and listen to her talk about her hard days work of bringing home the bacon. At least that’s what CNN’s latest foray into the Black woman melodrama, “I Can’t Find A Man, Where Dey Be Hidin’ At Tyler Perry?” is telling them.
There is a saying that love conquers all, and for Watts that means Laurent Sagna’s salary and job status are inconsequential. She said she adores her 39-year-old blue-collar partner — who only completed high school — for the way he listens, for his affectionate hugs and musical talents. Watts ignored her mother’s concerns about his “financial prospects” when they married a few years ago.
“I’ve met and dated plenty of people with Ph.D.s, and it doesn’t mean they are smarter,” said Watts, who lives in North Carolina. “He might not have the degree, but he’s got a lot of talent.”
He’s got a lot of talent.
Guffaw.
Forgive my guffawedness, but that sounds like some rationalization to me. Besides, what the f*ck is talent anyway? Does he whittle? Is he a great whistler? Does that really make up for the $70,000 income gap. For the record, I think you should marry whoever the f*ck you want. If they’re broke and you love them. Great. If you admire, respect, and appreciate them, great. Do you. But don’t run no bullsh*t about talent to make yourself feel better. We all understand anyway. Us menfolks aren’t graduating from college or getting the good jobs and the ones that are have already hit it and quit it.
Real talk.
I wonder what kind of self-realization all the women in the CNN article had to come to in order to accept being the breadwinner in their households? And was it a power struggle because society tells us that men are the ones who make the money and support the house.
However, this article lets us know that, even if you can’t support the house, brotha…you can ALWAYS find a woman who will. So why settle for anything less. Even broke and uneducated brothas can hit the jackpot. Men should only date dimes; women should settle.
Ouch.
I bring it to you, good folks of VSB. Ladies, do you care if you make more money and have THAT much more education than your man? Or do you only care if he cares? And fellas (yeah!), could you live with being the one who doesn’t bring home the bacon (or turkey bacon for the non-pork eaters in the room) and had you by about three degrees?
How low could you go?
-VSB P aka THE ARSONIST aka TANGLE JIG P aka GIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIRL, HE A 3
I don’t believe that anyone should settle. Like you said, if that’s who you love, then that’s who you love. One man’s five is another man’s dime, or in Panama’s case… one chicks 3 is another chicks 12.
So, I didn’t realize how important a college degree was to me until like idk, last week (?) Yeah, last week. I was feeling good, feeling great when one thing led to another and here I was talking to this new “friend”. I think the second question I asked him was, “Okay, so what school did you graduate from?”. He responded, “Ummm, I said I went to school. I didn’t say I graduated.” My response- something irrelevant. I barely remember. I stopped listening. I realized the next day after I was discussing the conversation with a friend that I had “X’d” him immediately following his admission of a degree-less mantel. (Yeah, mantel.) Is that wrong? Maybe.
I mean once I thought about it further I did feel kinda like an uppity negro but I mean hell, a degree seems to be important to me. So to answer the question, I would prefer if my forever boo (husband) was in the same tax bracket as me or at least had a degree. I mean, no shade but my homies and I went to some of the best colleges and universities in the great ole U.S. of A. Gotta start somewhere. That’s my couple cents.
I saw this article earlier and thought dang I bet they will reference this at some point this week. @ Miss Reese ….I agree with you sistah and I am the same way.!!! As a brother I personally would only want to date a woman who is considering a graduate degree or has one. Now some would say thats a bit much but in todays time I feel like a college degree should be standard and I find ambition to be personally sexy. There is nothing sexier than a sistah who is well educated and doing her thing. Also its an extra 700,000 of you ninjas compared to me.
I think CNN is doing a impressive job of saying we as black men arent doing much with our lives and our female counterparts are putting us to shame. I do think that many sistahs are not realistic in what they want. Yall are all chasing after the same ideal man who has 4-5 of yall to pick from. Where does that leave the other 3 to 4, assed out. Yall better go get a white man or a blue collar brotha.
I could deal with a sistah who made more money than me or had an extra degree. If I was a bluecollar person with a GED, prolly not. Some advanced degrees or industries dont pay well but are well respected so if my wife/gf made more I would be totally cool with that. Currently, I would loveeee to have a woman who can help support me. ***Attention any women in the Cincinnati area call me***
Glad you could dig it. At the same token my parent’s have been married over 30 years and both of them have associate’s degrees. They raised us kids to aim for the stars and they always said/say “The next generation is suppose to be even better.” and I would have to agree. I would want the same for my children. Subsequently, we’re left to deal with the complications that comes with acquiring a degree (or 2 or 3) and what this will mean for our future generations. My bro, an engineer currently in a master’s program, tells me some stories of the chicks he come into contact with. He basically has his pick and is fully aware of that. It’s crazy. Kinda disheartening too. (at least for me.)
maybe it’s just me, my nonchalant, care free attitude. or the fact that i think that there’s someone truly special out there for me so I ain’t about to put some random dude up on a pedestal just cuz he has a degree or two. but i REFUSE to make somebody my “everything” if i’m only their “something”
Say that!
funny thing if you go to Undergrad or grad school at a PWI you are more likely to marry a white guy. I have over 25 sorority sisters/associates married to White guys recently only 5 weddings have been black on black. When is CNN going to finish the special on all of this.
Poor Lil Miss Reese,
I agree with you not wanting to date a man that does not have a college degree, but the reasons why are just a little off. I am a CG (college grad), and my man is not.. Really, he never even graduated from high school… he got a GED at the age of 30 just because it was something he wanted to accomplish for personal reasons ( he is now 42 ). It is a fact that he does not have a degree, but never would I ever put him in an “uneducated” catagory… He clears six figures in a bad year, and even with all my lil funky credentials, I could have a great year ( I sell franchises ) and still not be able to bring in what he earns. I guess you can say that my man GOT TALENT! Also, I do not feel like I “settled” at all. I may be a needle in a hay stack, but I feel very lucky to be able to be with someone that makes me happy. We have been together for a while now, and I still get excited when we have date night.
In the south, especially in the gulf, Blue collar dollars outweigh White Collar dollars ANYDAY! So If a matching tax bracket is what you are looking for in a mate, then you may want to try the man who owns his own Janitorial business, or maybe the Ship welder, the dude that works off shore.. Hell, you may even want to try the car wash guy. I have a friend that never made it past the 8th grade… He has a small farm where he processes cow shyt for a living… and does very well…..
I don’t think that I would ever settle for a man… but every womans dream guy is not The Boris Kodjoe’s, the Morris Chestnut’s, or Barak Obama’s of the world… To be 100… I don’t look shyt like Amber Rose, Gabby Union, Or Jill Scott and my man makes me feel like I was custom made just for him.
I agree with you on that. I just finished grad school and all preparing to do PHD by year end so we can say an learned. However my man is not never been interested in college but he he is great at what he does. makes me feel like a queen all the damn time. He is a good man I would pick him over and over instead of this degree totting brothas who have a chip on their shoulders like the world owes something.
I think its time sistas start looking for good men based on their character and based on their education credentials. Education doesnt equal to educated or so my mother says
@Anita,
Maybe it’s the English teacher in me, but I had to reread your post like seven times just to grasp its basic meaning. Maybe it’s only reflective of your typographical skills, but it seems that not only does one’s education mean little to “learned” women, it also seems to mean little to degree-granting institutions. my SO has made it clear to me (and i to her) that she values my education (it was where we met), and particularly appreciates the acquired skill of clearly and articulately elucidating a point.
you and your man might be two peas in the proverbial pod for many reasons.
Sincerely,
(one of those degree “totting” brothers with a whole stack of Pringles on his shoulder)
Shots Fired.
Shots Fired.
*smirks*
How do we call shots fired… the day after?
I have nothing against educated people I just have a problem with men(and women) who believe that their degrees/education level makes them better than everyone else. I value hard working respectful people but I have met my share of learned fellows who have good educations but wanting character-wise that all I meant. Education is more than what you learn in class.
Good luck to you and your girl, all the best.
FYI: I meant is time sistas valued a man based on his character and not necessarily based on the money they earn or education credentials
@Lanieanna
Woooow.
“Poor Lil Miss Reese”
That was indeed “shots fired”. I was pretty overworked yesterday (busy at work) so I dodged the “bullets”. I’ll refrain from responding because…quite frankly, it no longer matters.
Good luck with your boo and such!
smh
The Boule’ was definitly in the house for this post.
All I ment to convey, is that education and tax bracket does not always reflect each other…. Don’t assume that just because a person does not have a degree, they automatically go into the “broke a$$” catagory. Or the “I can dress him up, but can’t take him nowhere” catagory. I mean.. really.. how many educators do you know living large? I know city workers that are wayyyyy more financially secure than your avg school teacher, and who could be more educated than an educator? I went to college to specialize in a profession. To learn as much about what I wanted to make of myself…. Not to get a degree, just to say I had a degree, so I could hang out or attract other people that had degrees… no beef no shade… i just thought your comment was a lil ignant, and close minded. There is not anything wrong with wanting a person in your life who has accomnplished what you have worked so hard to accomplish.. such as a man with a degree… I said all that to say.. just cuz a ninja got a degree, dont mean he got money!
@Lanieanna
Thanks for the clarification but I’m still going to have to give you a “side eye” on this one. Also, per my original post, please check that my direct quote was- “So to answer the question, I would prefer if my forever boo (husband) was in the same tax bracket as me or at least had a degree.” With “prefer” being the operative word. Prefer, meaning that it would be ideal but would not be a deal breaker. I mean, come on, what person would deny dating somebody who makes 6 figures just because they do not have a degree? That’s beyond crazy. It’s too bad you thought my comment was “ignant and close-minded” but the fact still remains, I would prefer if my husband had a degree….with prefer still being the operative word.
As usual, no shade.
Um, maybe it’s me, but I feel like this is explicitly a colored folks issue. Why I gotta end up with Raheem the trashman* but Becky ends up with David the Cardiologist?
*not that anythings wrong with trashmen, jus sayin’
On another note, I feel like if I were to make more money/have more education that my potential mate, I wouldn’t be the one tripping.
I’ve actually had a kneegrow tell me in a conversation once “Why you gotta use all those big words, I know you went to college!” o_0
exit stage left
Sorry, but I can’t be ya mammy and baby you about insecurities you have because your woman is outperforming you. I’m not trying to outshine my potential partner, but I’m also not going to dumb myself down to make him feel good.
“Um, maybe it’s me, but I feel like this is explicitly a colored folks issue. Why I gotta end up with Raheem the trashman* but Becky ends up with David the Cardiologist?”
Thank you! Why we gotta aim low? Everybody else seems to be going for All-Stars and we gotta take all the nose-bleed spectators? So over it.
It’s a colored people issue because there’s a disparity in who is getting college degrees in this country, color wise. I’m sure there might be other issues going on as well, related to race and education, like more black women getting degrees than black men, regardless of our marrying numbers.
yah yall dont have to aim low, yall can aim white, brown or yellow. Just know that if you ONLY aim black you may need to take a step down. The stats are not in your favor. That article said its 700,000 more black women with a degree than men. If you account for all of the socially awkward dudes, Michael Steele’s, and Carl Winslows its even worse.
Sigh.
So true and so sad.
Well that statement just made me want to go jump right off the curb! Ugh…i’m going to sleep
This made me e-cry.
yeah, true, but all of those 700000 black women with degrees aren’t necessarily high quality women. simply having a degree doesn’t automatically make you wifey material. what about all the psychos, crazies, lesbians (nttawwt) etc. i think we’re getting too caught up in this whole numbers thing. we need to just focus on doing what makes you happy and being with who makes you happy, and not trying to be a statistic, or avoid becoming one, for that matter.
“You can have whoever you like.” . . and I don’t know too many Becky’s with David the Cardiologist or who want them— the David’s of the world seem to go for Miss Kim or Miss Patel——
While the 3 Raheem’s (I finally had to just delete all of them from my phone because I couldn’t keep them straight) I dated didn’t work out- they were def not the garbage man— but ps I feel you.
Now wait just a minute…My name’s Raheem!!!!
lol. j/k
@Tx10inch
Now wait just a minute…My name’s Raheem!!!!
LMAO!!!! This made me laugh out loud. : )
@Cnotes
lol *smile*
Very true. Waspy white broads think they’ve settled when they end up with a cardiologist… who is persian, swarthy/ethnic, doesn’t come from a good family or went to a state school. They will end up with hairy, peasant-calved kids who have slightly smaller trust funds than their classmates. There should be a CNN special!
peasant-calved kids?!? iCan’t with you today, clearly you’re trying to get me fired.
bwahahhhahahaha!
Um, maybe it’s me, but I feel like this is explicitly a colored folks issue. Why I gotta end up with Raheem the trashman* but Becky ends up with David the Cardiologist?
This has been my issue for years! White women never have these conversations. But every time I read Essence mag and they talk about relationships they discuss how black women need to give the cable man LOVE. Or she will miss out on her soul mate. It makes me sad really.
From what I can see from my white (shit, any non-Black) female friends, they dont have long laundry lists of requirements like Black women do. Average middle-class white women (WASPS are obviously a diff social set) don’t have these convos b/c most of them can care less about a guys degree/pedigree/org affiliations/salary…my friends always talk about the innerworkings of an ideal guy for them. That rarely comes up when Black women are knee-deep in a whyamistillsingleBlackmenaintshit bashfest.
Brothas, I feel sorry for you. Black women are VICIOUS! Sheesh!
“Sorry, but I can’t be ya mammy and baby you about insecurities you have because your woman is outperforming you. I’m not trying to outshine my potential partner, but I’m also not going to dumb myself down to make him feel good.”
My sentiments exactly. If a dude doesn’t have a problem with where he is in life, then neither will I. If I can accept him for who he is then he should be able to accept me nerdom and all.
It *is* a colored folks issue because we’re a small and increasingly socio-economically stratified group, but we’re also pushed into being a monolith.
In other words, society at large tells us we’re all the same and part of one big family, regardless of education level, class background, etc. So people from the striver class and up still feel compelled to consider dating folks from the lower classes with less education. Of course those pairings are harder and are largely at the root of alot of the dating crap we’re seeing now.
Other groups are either really large and not monolithized (fite wolks), or are smaller but not harshly stratified along class lines(specific Asian groups – Koreans, Japanese, Chinese, etc – though not all of them – Cambodians and the Hmong are not really kicking much butt.)
This monolith idea essentially forces us to try to pull off the impossible with one another.
Back when the black middle class was tiny-to-non-existent, almost all balck people were basically working class at best, or outright impoverished. Very few had college degrees. We were all in the same boat, and these differences didn’t exist. Now they do, and it’s hard.
…are smaller but not harshly stratified along class lines(specific Asian groups – Koreans, Japanese, Chinese, etc – though not all of them – Cambodians and the Hmong are not really kicking much butt.)
I’d disagree with this statement. You touch on it with Cambodians and Hmong, but you’re downplaying it to hell.
That’s why I said specific groups. There’s not a ton of stratification among Chinese. Or among Koreans. or among Japanese.
The only way you could disagree with what I said is if you attempt to make East and Southeast Asians a monolith, thereby throwing all those groups into one big East Asian bag. Surely you don’t want to do that? They certainly don’t do it among themselves here.
I think the disadvantaged groups I mentioned are still very, very small, even among the various East Asian groups in the US, so many people in middle America may never have even heard of the Hmong, for instance. Point being, their existence isn’t really tearing down the sense of “Asians” as a model minority, hence, little social stratification.
The idea of Asians as a model minority is offensive to me.
I need to expound on this, but I’m busy at the moment. I understand what you’re saying, but I think you’re mistaken. Of course this could be me being extra-sensitive because I am Vietnamese.
Honestly, I figured you were probably Asian (no disrespect.) It seems like you want to be objective in reading what I’m saying, but your subjective side is getting in the way and accusing me of putting forth the model minority thing. But that’s my whole point – when you break Asians down by actual specific cultures, the model minority thing falls apart, but within specific cultures there are some common experiences/trends. One of those trends is the lack of stratification within specific groups. That can go both ways, too, i.e., lots of people doing boss good (Koreans, Japanese) and lots of people needing alot of help (Hmong, Cambodians, etc.)
thank you. i dont care if my man has a degree, I DO care about his background. i used to NOT care, but years of dating and even marrying men from differnt backgrounds taught me that it makes a difference. and not just in the sense that the person from the higher socio-economic background will look down on the other, because thats how people perceive the complaints, but in the sense that you need some compatibility. i liken it to the tv show Green Acres.
my exes felt a lot of resentment toward me and my family. felt I was looking down on them, felt insulted when I didnt agree with their choices in movies, what the kids should wear to school and so on. a LOT of class clashing. and i felt defensive a lot, as if I were doing something wrong or being uppity or maybe had some hidden sense of superiority that they were detecting. it wasnt the case. but eventually, after it NEVER worked out, I was happier out of it. I was able to discuss with them the things they liked and were interested in, but the disparity in experience and education made it hard for them to discuss with me a lot of things that were important to me or that interested me. i had to limit myself. i don’t ever want to have to do that again.
I am concerned primarily with lifestyle compatibility. Can he and I do things together that we both enjoy, will we enjoy the company of one anothers friends and families, will they enjoy our company?
i’ve found that blue collar guys, even if i like them, don’t particularly enjoy the things I like. i’ve found that guys who are new to the middle class and really want to climb the socio-economic ladder, tend to be more conformist and closeminded that i am.more conservative. but men whose parents and grandparents have similar backgrounds to mine (college educated,middle to upper middle class) tend to have a better fit intellectually, politically and just in the day to day aspects- what shall we eat, what will we wear, what concert will we attend,what movies will we see.
Becky isnt stressing about this, because Becky hasn’t historically had a huge problem finding men in her own social class.Becky has a larger pool to choose from because there are more Brents than Beckys so she isn’t forced to contemplate marrying Jethro or JoeBob.
I don’t care if a man makes less money than I do or if he isnt college educated. I just want him to be able to go to a party or movie or book club with me and be able to appreciate the music, the food and discussion the same way I do.Its not that I think in terms of better or worse, just because I like a certain sort of food or party or movie doesnt mean I think its better or other people’s shit is worse. Just means I want to share interests and passions with a mate.
What bugs me is that men who dont read, who havent travelled etc get upset when I dont want to date them as if Im looking down on them. Because after the new wore off, after feeling like they got something special because I have a degree etc, after the sex is boring they’d be complaining that I don’t laugh at their jokes, wont hang with their friends, like boring ass tv shows, read too much, always want to go to dull ass parties and concerts with bad music..Why would I want to be with a man who wouldnt be happy with me as I am?
As a college graduate I do care about what my potential husband brings to the table. He should be on my level or better. I want us to both have good incomes. I am a Puerto-Rican woman, and I date all types of races, so if I have to marry outside my race to find what I want, I am okay with that. I think the man should be the main breadwinner, but I plan on puling my weight as well. I grew up watching my mom working two jobs, and my father only worked one. I always hated that. I never wanted to repeat my mother’s history.
It’s not about the degree. It’s about how much money the guy makes.
To the ones who will disagree with me, my reply is that If you really insist that your man has a degree its because of your need to impress your family and friends. Since you may have yours, you have to one-up those who are involved with a man without a degree.
No bullsh*t
uh oh!! i’m a little scurred to see what’s about to pop off..
#icalleditfirst
Eh, I dunno. Some women want their man to be degreed because college is a unique experience people go through and they want that shared experience. It’s like if you want someone who is a neat freak because you’re a neat freak. Or, you want our mate to be black because you’re black and you don’t wanna have to crib note every conversation about race to them. Others treat it like religion, they want their kids to be college educated so they want a mate who is also college educated. Could be a lot of different reasons for this request.
I also think its important because for those of us who have a degree college was a significant part of our lives. Many of our closest friends came from college. As a result, alot of our friends are college educated and potentially are also doing well for themselves. I think you want to surround your kids around alot of positive role models and all of my friends are either in medicine, banking or law who i graduated with. While there are many people who do not have a degree and are GREAT role models(especially for black people who may be first generation college students) there is a chance(or big chance) that a person without a degree may have other degree less potentially shiftless friends which might not be the most ideal role models for your children. Just my two cents.
@coldsweat
[Flavor Flav] Woooooooow!
Can we say elitist? Can’t have our kids around those shiftless non-sheepskin-havin’ scrubs.
You prove what my Grandfather used to say.
Educated does not equal intelligent.
really you deduced all that? Cuz from the post I wrote and in the same sentence it said “While there are many people who do not have a degree and are GREAT role models(especially for black people who may be first generation college students) ” last I checked im recognizing that there are those without degrees that are not shiftless. But let us NOT be disillusioned and think that there are not a nice amount of shiftless brothas without a degree. Please spare me the Oprah stories in a rebuttal.
@coldsweat3
I think we have a misunderstanding. I’m talking about a productive man with a decent income but no degree versus a productive man with a degree.
Of course there are plenty of shiftless dudes. YOU introduced them to this post.
Sound elitist to me. I’m just saying.
While there are many people who do not have a degree and are GREAT role models(especially for black people who may be first generation college students) there is a chance(or big chance) that a person without a degree may have other degree less potentially shiftless friends which might not be the most ideal role models for your children.
So you’re basically judging your potential mate on some hypothetical friends that may or may not be a bad influence. Just sounds like an excuse. So if you met a man who had all the qualitites that you were looking for in a mate but didn’t have a degree because his friends may be shiftless you wouldn’t date him. I have some pretty shiftless lazy people in my family I would hate for that to be a barometer of whether someone would date me even though I have a degree and working on a masters.
I have some pretty shiftless lazy people in my family I would hate for that to be a barometer of whether someone would date me even though I have a degree and working on a masters.
I’m right there with you on that one.
“there is a chance(or big chance) that a person without a degree may have other degree less potentially shiftless friends which might not be the most ideal role models for your children.”
So I guess the shiftless degreed mo’fo’s are ok, then? Riiiiiight.
to those who continued to post on my first part of the post and ignored…
“” last I checked im recognizing that there are those without degrees that are not shiftless. But let us NOT be disillusioned and think that there are not a nice amount of shiftless brothas without a degree. Please spare me the Oprah stories in a rebuttal.”
Theres always exceptions to the rule. Yall can do whatever you want. Theres alot of people out here so please get whatever the hell yall want ladies. I just know what I want so yes I will base my decision off of some “arbitrary” rule or the possibility of shiftless friends. Clearly if I started talking to someone I would meet their friends and assess myself. Just saying maybe being from the South and knowing alot of my male HS peers(shoot females too) who are SHIFTLESS as allllllllll Hell has jaded me. Yall go out there and get your diamond in the rough.
Your strongest argument is “college is a unique experience people go through and they want that shared experience.”
That means almost nothing. Surely you have better reasons for disqualifying those who don’t have degrees.
It is clearly about money and/or impressing others. Everything is a competition when it comes to Sista’s with degrees. Admit it or remain in denial.
No bullsh*t
^The above comment is for Liz
It means “almost nothing” to YOU because you’re clearly not the person who feels that way. Newsflash: not everybody thinks like you. Just because you don’t agree with it doesn’t mean it isn’t valid.
In addition, I think you’re mistaken if you really think college degree = money. Ask the jobless college graduates graduating from universities every year. Keep in mind a college degree generally puts most people in a lot of debt. You act like it’s free. At the end of the day I am sure self sufficiency trumps a college degree. “Girl he broke, but he got him a degree!” “Girl he ain’t got no job, but I’m gonna show off his degree!” Yeah, not cute. Stop suspending basic logic.
Dance around it if you must but my stance remains the same. Most guys who pay attention would agree wholeheartedly with me.
NO bullsh*t
that’s ok. you and the men agreeing with me in this thread know I’m right.
Liz, Liz. You are not right. You are not wrong either. There is no right or wrong in this particular topic. It’s all opinion and personal preference. For me it’s really about the debate. I could easily take your position and say you would indeed be doing a disservice to the black community by not marrying and procreating with a man with the intellect and ambition to seek a secure a degree.
However, there are MANY women who fit the stereotypes that I present here. Surely you can admit that.
I just like to push buttons. today I chose you. I really just want all people to be more open-minded.
No Bullsh*t
I have to agree with you on this one Liz.
A degree does not equal money; My last soiree into the dating game smacked me in the face with this reality. Though the person I was with had a master degree (just as I do), he was unemployed because he didn’t have the work ethic and drive that usually leads a person to be successful. So while he had those fancy letters listed after his name, I didn’t see him as capable of being a good provider and so, he got his walking papers. Those “degrees” weren’t enough for me to overlook everything else!
“It means “almost nothing” to YOU because you’re clearly not the person who feels that way. Newsflash: not everybody thinks like you. Just because you don’t agree with it doesn’t mean it isn’t valid.”
EXACTLY!! *clapping* i agree with you liz, and you make an important point, one that is often ignored when discussing this topic. people make their “lists” of standards and qualities that they want in a mate. not everyone agrees on these standards. the problem i have is when people tell me i should “settle” for xzy. NO. I have these standards / qualities i’m looking for for a reason, so no, i will not adjust them to suit what others think are reasonable…sorry for my rant, the purpose of this was to give a big up to liz for her stellar comment.
I agree with the comments I’ve read thus far from you, Liz.
Let’s get real here. To say that anyone who is college-educated (man or woman) should NOT look for a mate who is also college-educated is folly. Especially if you’re from my generation, you were probably encouraged from birth to pursue higher education in the form of going to college. If you weren’t taught that at home, you were taught that in grade school. If you weren’t taught that in grade school, then Heithcliff & Clair Huxtable, Dwayne Wayen et al damn sure taught you that on Thursday nights.
Why would you first (key word “First”) seek partnership in someone who HAS NOT had similar experience (college or otherwise) as you did if you felt the experience influenced you largely? That’s absurd. That doesn’t translate into “don’t give anyone a chance if they aren’t college educated”. It translates into “find someone who you have a lot in common with, and with whom you share similar beliefs”. F*ck money….it’s not about that. Put your best foot forward and sh*t…
I bet you 20 bucks and Queen Latifah’s sweaty bra that 99% of the people reading this blog rightfully associate a higher education with a more comfortable lifestyle (that’s not to be confused with thinking that it guarantees one). So please, let’s not act like we won’t be encouraging our own children/nieces/nephews/lil’ cousins to go to college on some level or another.
@ its2010dammit
Why the hostility towards the college-educated? Or rather, why the hostility towards someone’s choice to attempt to mate with the college-educated?
That may not be a good argument for why it is important, but it is nonetheless. Whatever the underlying reasons, there is a marked difference between a person and friends of a person who went to college and ones that did not.
In my life experience, that has led to friction between friends and a couple, where one may not fit in very well with the others friends and vice versa. Sure, it is easy to say “if you really love each other, it doesn’t matter what other people think” but that requires you to have gotten to that point first. Unless you manage to carry out the first 6 months of your relationship in a vacuum, these kinds of things will matter and make a difference.
I’m not saying it should be a hard and fast rule, as always, these should be evaluated on a case by case basis. But for some, it may mean that they need to bring something else to the table.
I’m on Team Liz here. Saying that competition is everything to a degreed woman is such a sweeping generalization that I don’t even know where to begin! Maybe I haven’t crossed over to the Pompous Elitist Side Chapter of Black Women Who Can’t Get a Man because I only have a B.A.
I dated guys I went to school with while I was in undergrad and after undergrad I dated a guy with a high school diploma and a CDL, one with a B.A. and one with a high school diploma and credits towards an associates degree. The one guy with a degree and I could totally relate our college experience because we went to the same school. The second guy, while he couldn’t relate appreciated my experience and was comfortable around my “educated” friends, held his own in conversations, etc. The third guy was intimidated by me and criticized my every accomplishment. Each criticism stemmed from his own insecurities and he was good for punctuating every disagreement with something like “well, I wouldn’t know because I don;t have a degree.”
It depends on the person. Most of my friends have bachelor’s degrees and a few have masters. Some have associates and others have none at all. My family includes an aunt who is a manager at McDonald’s to street pharmacy cousins to an uncle with a PhD who taught at Clark-Atlanta and Spelman. Different mates appealed to different people in my social circle but at the end of the day it mattered not because the guys were dating me, not them.
It means a ton, actually, and I’m saying as a guy who wants a girl who went to college (preferrably a girl who lived on campus, or just not a home.)
In my eyes, the experience of having spent those years in college shapes your frame of thinking and reference, and makes getting along romantically alot easier.
I see the validity in both Liz and its2010dammit’s viewpoint. While it is a MUST that we all have standards for dating/mate selection, I believe it to be a sad state of affairs when we use a single measure (ie a degree) to make a decision, rather than the sum of the whole. Do I want a partner who has shared experiences? Of course! But to allow a degree to define us/them is craziness! My degrees, as well as my profession, does not define me as a person. It does tell someone whether or not I will be loyal, supportive, nurturing or understanding. It does say that I am $160K in student loan debt…lol
How I interact with you, how I treat you and others and vice versa is what is important. So, if I can connect with Rasheed/Raheem and he doesn’t have a degree, it doesn’t mean I’m settling if he possesses all of the characteristics/qualities that I both want and need…tell him to holla at a sista!
This is an “it is what it is” scenario, not a better or worse thing. I’m of the belief that whatever is important to a person, and whatever makes someone feel comfortable or happy with another consenting adult, they should pursue.
Question – what would you suggest? That people try hard as they can to fight off the feeling of unsatisfaction they may feel by trying to get serious with someone who doesn’t possess a critical mass of the stuff they’re looking for? Or someone who doesn’t possess any of the top 2 or 3 things they look for? That comes off like you’re trying to prove something, rather than being true to yourself.
That kind of setup probably won’t work, so why try? If you like deling with folks who went to college, *for whatever reason*, and the absence of that makes you genuinely uninterested, then you shopuld go for that.
This is SO relevant. The guy who has a degree but who didn’t have the “college experience” due to living @ home, going to a commuter school, not being involved on campus therefore having no college friends, etc., is much less compatible with (24 year old, multiple degree having) me than the guy with a HS diploma who’s lived on his own since age 19, has managed a household, handled expenses, paid bills before, etc. I’m with Scipio.
For me, a college degree does not matter. At all.He may not need a degree for what he wants to do. He may need to go to trade school or he may have a great idea and own his own business. It’s really about how much money he makes and if he is able to support me and a future family.
I don’t have a problem working together, but I have a personal pet peeve when (some) men have this attitude of ‘what she bringin’ to the table’.
Why do you have this pet peeve? Considering you yourself just said that you expect a man to “bring to the table” a certain salary and ability to take care of you and a future family.
You said that in absence of a degree he needs to bring something else, in your own words, that is a great idea + own business, going to a trade school, or some other form of advancement. Why can’t a man expect something similar from a woman?
@Kamakula
Why do you have this pet peeve?
I guess I tend to be a bit more traditional than most. I think a women should bring more of the caretaking, homemaking, nurturing side (something she’s naturally blessed with). Many men think that “bringin’ something to the table” is akin to “how much money you have, you know you gotta pull your weight.” In my opinion, pulling your weight, doesn’t always mean money.
Why can’t a man expect something similar from a woman?
He can like what he likes and compromise based on what he wants out of life.
It’s not the money, for me, or, in most cases, the degree. Its the value that I put on his profession. I would date a teacher or a social worker or fireman because I put a high value on what a teacher, social worker and fireman do. In fact, I’d be more likely to date a fireman with no degree than a dude with three degrees whose life’s mission is to blow up on the chitlin circuit. Maybe that’s just me.
@INFJgurl,
It’s not about the money for me, either. I value education. I value the drive that it requires to acquire a higher level degree. I value professional ambition as one might see in a teacher or social worker. And I want to instill those values in my kids. And you marry who you date, so…
It’s about how much money he can SAVE.
“It’s not about the degree. It’s about how much money the guy makes.”
It’s the same with men, only in reverse. Ya’ll want to make more money than we do to stroke ya’ll toobigtoowide ego. We both usin’ each other for our agendas and whatnot. *kanyeshrug*
And I don’t see what’s wrong with it, frankly. A woman usually wants a man to provide for her. Well, the man usually wants the same damn thing. Difference is, when women ask for it, she’s a golddigger. When a man says he wants to make more, he’s just tryin’ to be the main provider. o________________________O
@ its2010dammit
It’s not the need to “impress my family or friends”, to me having a degree says you’re committed to putting the time and effort to better yourself. And couples who have similar shared experiences, are said to have stronger bonds, because they share the same values. You are right when you say educated does not equal intelligent, but for me, personally, that is a REQUIREMENT. Weeding people’s ignorance is a whole other conversation in itself.
I think men should always date dimes. between good better and best both men and women get the “better” except men look at it like they got a dime and women look at it like they had to settle. women want the best and feel like they’ve settled if they don’t get it. its like the Olympics except men only want the silver medal, gold medals take too much press. and basically too much work. women want the gold and settle for the silver and the media is screaming, well at least you got a medal. its like men don’t want to work hard enough for the best and women feel like they’ve worked too hard not to get the best.
?
Champ’s simple (yet valid) response cracked me up. I’m over here furrowing my brow too. Maybe because I didn’t have toast this morning?
I’m a lawyer but I’ve dated a couple of guys without degrees and that didn’t bother me. There are a number of much-needed and well-paid blue collar jobs that don’t require higher education so if a man has a career that he’s proud of (and good credit) and can hold an intelligent conversation I’m not looking down my nose at him. Besides I’m from Detroit, my family is full of hard-working people from the auto industry. Cars/trucks put me through school! I’d date a police officer, mechanic, truck driver, etc. without blinking an eye.
As far as pay, I work for a non-profit and I’m definitely not rolling in money so if I make more than a man he’s not making much! With that said, I’d prefer he make as much, if not more than me.
“if a man has a career that he’s proud of (and good credit) and can hold an intelligent conversation I’m not looking down my nose at him”
Same here! I prefer college-educated men, but there are many great men who didn’t have the opportunity to go to college and are still great men. My dad and best friend’s dad are the best examples. They’re very smart men, but my dad had to drop out of college to fight in a war and my best friend’s dad had to provide for his family (but later went on to finish college in his 40′s). Both men are the best examples of what real men are, they put their families first, always worked very hard to take care of their families and very smart with money, very intelligent, and just really good men. As great as a degree is, it’s not everything to me.
maybe it’s my old age.. but, does he NOT wanna get a degree? that’s my next question.. i’m not rationalizing, but there’s plenty reasons why someone didn’t finish college.. (i’m living in one of them)..
i want to know his ambition and drive more than anything.. i know of managers at the supermarket that make more money per month than i’ve ever seen.. not all these people went to college..
a degree isn’t as important as a plan is.. i was with someone that didn’t have one.. and THAT was the problem.. he didn’t like to hold jobs, always had his head in the sky (even when the cell bill was due).. and was totally comfortable with my paying for everything.. until we got in a fight, and he said that i was emasculating him..
i’d like to believe that i wouldn’t harbor resentment if i brought home more money than my husband.. but i trust that if i married him, then i already respected him (and he had drive) without him having to shove how much he makes (or doesn’t make) in my face..
would also trust that he’s comfortable enough with himself to not let this diminish who he is as a man..
maybe i’m already asleep and i’m dreaming..
perhaps..
a degree isn’t as important as a plan is…
I think this is it right here! A degree becomes less important when you have a plan for your career and what you expect from it. Because I know plenty of people who have degrees who are the 2nd shift manager at the olive garden. And I know people without degrees who make me really reconsider why I went to college any way.
@Nick_L-Odeon,
a degree isn’t as important as a plan is…
No, you’re not dreaming…you’re on point with that. I do not see where you’re implying a degree does not hold some level of importance, however…..having said degree does not negate the fact that one still needs A PLAN.
An effective, well researched and thoroughly executed plan is imperative whether you possess that piece of paper or not.
That is how I interpreted the above statement.
@Nick_L_Odeon
“a degree isn’t as important as a plan is.. ”
I think you’ve captured the truth with this statement; because I have a friend who has a graduate degree and hardly any work experience (thus cripling earning potential). My friend now makes maybe $30K annually (and I’m being generous with that guess) and their mom has to help with bills. (Disclaimer: I’m not knocking $30K salaries, but me and my circle are in our early 30′s and should be further along). Unless you graduated from a top school or have an engineering degree (or the like), you must have some work experience. A better plan would have put my friend in a much better position.
“a degree isn’t as important as a plan is”
I agree 100000%. I went to a great school, I have friends that went to great schools. Some of them have no plan and that’s a problem. A degree (especially one with a certain name) does not come with guarantees. The sense of entitlement attached to that framed work is false, or at least it has been in my experience and in the experience of many of my colleagues.
I think a man with a plan, who things unconventionally is HOT! Not that degrees aren’t important, but if you can do what you love and make a living off of it without one (and the debt that comes with it) them I’m all for it!
I think a man with a plan, who things unconventionally is HOT!
Totally agree.
a degree isn’t as important as a plan is…
This is key right here. I have a guy friend who has a Master’s in Computer Science and does nada. All he does is sit home play video games and lets his momma take care of him.
He didn’t have a plan. He went to school because his parents told him so, not because he was ambitiously driven to do so. Heck his gf at the time forced him to get a job, he did, got depressed because working felt foreign to him,he quit, and went back to sitting on his momma’s couch.
So yes, I do too respect someone who has a plan and may not have a degree, rather than someone with a degree, with no plan.
“i want to know his ambition and drive more than anything..”
Same here. Thing is, not every well-paid profession requires a college degree. Yeah, most do, but not every. I just don’t want a lazy schmuck lying on my couch asking for Funyuns and hot sauce when I get home from work.
I don’t care if you have a degree or not, just be cultured. If you’re a military man who joined straight out of high school, but is well rounded and can discuss more than the rank and file mundane tasks of your job, then you could get it. (well, you may be a candidate to get it)
I dated a military man who was so out of touch with the world around him that I couldn’t get past the idea that he didn’t have a degree. I think I attributed all his deficiencies to the fact that he didn’t have a degree. (untrue, but easy way out) I mean, that’s all I could think of to pin it on. He’d clearly traveled the world (living in Guam, Austraila, Japan and more), he’d known various races of people, he was just unwilling to broaden his horizons. So he was a no bueno and I had to roll.
But, I’m not lowering my standards because there is a supposed black man shortage. I have no problem dating outside my race. And, I look just as good riding in a 7 series BMW as the next woman…meaning I’m not gonna settle for the decent performing Honda when I really want the BMW and have the means to get it. F-k that.
I don’t care if you have a degree or not, just be cultured.
I think that matters more for me than anything. I want an INTELLIGENT man that is aware and cultured… I have met gazillion degreed folks who did NOT know how to behave in certain circumstances or who had the conversation skills of a toddler… And that is more of a turn off than not having a degree.,,
I dig smart…
I approve this entire comment.
My grandmother had a master’s degree, and my grandfather only finished 3rd grade and was illiterate. They were married 55 years and while they had some bumps, they were pretty happy together. I don’t know of a happier couple who were so ride or die for each other. My grandmother had no problem feeling secure with him (my grandpa was also on the short/slim side, ha), and my grandfather was able to hold his own, financially speaking. I wish they were both alive so I could ask them about this bullshit ass media storm about Black marriages. I think you can be happy in an socio-eco imbalanced marriage. My grandfather may have been missing a basic education, but he made up for it in ambition, and he never let his illiteracy get in the way of being able to provide for his family. He had many an enterprise going on throughout his lifetime, and after retirement he was hired as a professor at a community college. On the flip side, my grandmother was never one to emasculate him and make him feel less than because he couldn’t read, and she was mrs. master’s degree. She filled out his paperwork at work, completed his job applications for him, wrote his resumes, and they were good. So, sure, it can work.
Maybe by “talent,” Watts meant “ambition.”
I’ve seen women with incredible resumes and husbands with equally incredible resumes….and they man is up in the club chasing other women. It’s sad, every time I see this. Everyone needs to remember, Trifling comes in all credentials (or lack thereof). You should be looking for happiness at the end of the day.
@Liz–you can’t hear me but I’m giving you a standing ovation! Money and education (or the lack thereof) are important but they don’t define a person. When it comes to love and relationships I think there are bigger concerns: Does he support my goals? Does he cherish and protect me? Is he faithful, honest, passionate, considerate, patient, kind?
On that note, I’m headed to bed. This topic is getting me worked up and I have a full day!
“Trifling comes in all credentials (or lack thereof). You should be looking for happiness at the end of the day.”
Clap, clap bravo… this is it right here. Speak that truth Liz
I dunno. An illiterate man born post-1975 who has a third grade education is an entirely different type of man than a man who was born in the 1920s or 1930s who is illiterate with a third grade education.
Also, my life has been all about doing things that were statistically improbable. So, i don’t worry too much about what the media says things are like for my demographic. Just because it is true for SOME statistically significant number of black women doesn’t mean that it will be my story.
“I dunno. An illiterate man born post-1975 who has a third grade education is an entirely different type of man than a man who was born in the 1920s or 1930s who is illiterate with a third grade education. ”
@sandbalance
Church!
My great-grandfather only had a 6th grade education (great-grandma went to 10th) but was able to hustle in life and provide well for his family. He was able to get a good job, buy a house, have two cars sitting in the driveway, the whole nine. Great grandma only worked part time to supplement the house and have her own money.
The difference is men back then had skills, drive, ambition, hustle! Yeah he only had a 6th grade education, but he had carpentry skills, some decent mechanics, barbering and good business sense all firmly under his belt. He made it work!
Some of these negroes w/ no education know nothing about nothing, have no skills or trade, and actually believe they are going to get somewhere off of a hs diploma alone.
“An illiterate man born post-1975 who has a third grade education is an entirely different type of man than a man who was born in the 1920s or 1930s who is illiterate with a third grade education”
Exactly. To deny this would be to ignore that the job market in this country has become less focused on trade skills than it was in past generations. That’s great that your grandparents were able to make it through, but if it was to happen today the story would be totally different.
Clearly it’s an example though, relatively speaking. I think today you could provide a similar example of someone who has a master’s degree being with someone who never went to college. I probably wouldn’t be with someone who couldn’t read but am I turning my nose down to men who don’t have a college degree? No. Mostly because, my dad never finished college and he managed to make a living with a six figure salary. People skills and ambition can make up for what you lack in education. That’s the point here.
Everyone needs to remember, Trifling comes in all credentials
Statements like this made me become a Liz stan
Everyone needs to remember, Trifling comes in all credentials
Statements like this made me a Liz stan
Move this post to the top of the page…folk need to see this before commenting I am your grandfather with a master’s degree. I’d rather bust my azz all day…sweat, get funky, and be my own boss…than deal with corporate america. And yep…I’ll probably go teach in a horticulture program after my company grows to where I want it to be….and I’m too old to do back breaking work all day.
I must say…I’m not for every type of woman…if you want to show off your mate’s career at cocktail parties…I’m not the one. If you want to be in a home that’s paid for sitting on an acre or two close to the city in less than 10 years…but wait. How many of yall deserve that? Seems like the degrees I have are more important…and they don’t do shat for me now.
It’s ok though…I love black women…and yall love me. So…let the media try to divide us…as with all things we’ve encountered…we as black folk will weather this storm.
See, I’ll pick a hardworking man who has a passion for what he does and is willing to work to attain it over someone waiting on Corporate to succeed.
For every breed of man, there is an equal breed of woman. Just find where you fit in.
lol – “them degrees don’t do shat for you now” – i love it! and i sooo feel you on the corporate plantation – it SUX!
“Everyone needs to remember, Trifling comes in all credentials (or lack thereof). You should be looking for happiness at the end of the day.”
i heart you so much for this statement.
@Liz
While I agree with your post in that the socio-eco imbalanced marriage can work; the additional elements are what really made it work:
- your grandfather’s commitment to being a provider for his family (regardless of his education level)
- your grandmother embracing the roll of being supportive to her husband (regardless of her education level)
- their commitment to each other and value for marriage
God bless them both!
Values have changed so much nowadays its become a crap shoot when it comes to relationships. Optimism is all we have now.
Oops! I meant, “embracing the role”.
yeah, I agree with you here. If you have those elements, then a degree really doesn’t matter. A lot of people get blinded by the degrees. I know I used to feel that way myself, and it’s taken me some time to reconsider.
@Liz
I did too, until I got married (and divorced). Nothing like a reality check to change your perspective on what is truly important.
“Trifling comes in all credentials (or lack thereof). You should be looking for happiness at the end of the day”
damn. look at liz spitting wisdom and sh*t. i’m proud of you
Ha. I learned from the best.
“Trifling comes in all credentials…”
I’m lovin’ this quote, Liz!
I absolutely dig your response. You’ve mentionned your grandparents before and you seriously need to write about them!!! They are an inspiration.
Socio-eco imbalance households work when both people are there for the right reasons and truly love each other.
My parents’ case was slightly different. They both have doctorates, however the disciplines they chose brought different amounts of money… Was that a problem? Not that I know of. My father is the wisest person I know, while my mother is the most ambitious person I know (I got it from my mama!
)… They both worked and balanced each other. My father stayed up nights correcting my mother’s doctoral thesis (they didn’t have spell check and computers back then.. Lol) and has supported her drive every step of the way… In turn, my mom understands that my dad is the ultimate decision maker because he thinks decisions through and is just a wise man all around. This dynamic worked for them.
I think the most important is to find the person that counterbalances your weaknesses and whose shortcomings your strengths can help. Once you find that mix, you’re good to go. All about yin and yang.
I think a lot of times people make these lists and expectations and may not really understand what is going to work best for them. If people took a more holistic approach to finding a mate, stuff like degrees wouldn’t be such a big deal, and would fall in line naturally.
Like everyone else has said – tell it! While playing this dating game, I like to use my grandparents as examples to help me put things into perspective. My grandfather was considerably older, was divorced, had other kids, had less education, and was wayyy shorter than my granny. But he lurved my granny! Ironed her nursing uniform everyday ‘fore she went to work type love. He was a hardworker. He was a provider. A good father. They were equal partners. But today, he wouldn’t even make the cut for some women. And I don’t want to be one of those women. Lol.
Yep, this is reason #3,407 why these little specials continue to get under my skin. The underlying message of coddling the “inferior Black man”, because that’s the best he will ever be/ the best we can hope for and we are not special/desirable/intelligent enough to want more. Everyone comes out like a winner in this one.
And at this point it’s not even the message anymore that bothers me, cuz it’s obviously moronic…it’s the people (particularly those with access to large audiences, like celebs and public/religious figures) who nod their heads emphatically and accept it without any filter of thought, examination or analysis; who pass it on (along with it’s negative implications) to friends, family, children and then…little by little, it becomes a part of the cultural pathology and begins to manifest itself as some sick and twisted truth (borne of a lie).
But anyway, to answer your question, no the money thing wouldn’t bother me. Having been raised by a single mother who did it all, I don’t have gender role preferences…as long as both parties contribute in a relatively equal way, I’m good. So, if my career ever carries me to another economic tier, I would not mind at all having a husband waiting for me at home with a mixed drink, hot meal, and a massage with a happy ending. *shrug*
As far as education, in theory, I *could* date a man of limited education, I suppose. As an Ivy League (under)grad, I have mixed feelings about the American educational system as whole, so I take it with a grain of salt. Degree or not, about 50-65% of my attraction to a man lies in our intellectual chemistry so a basic lack of understanding/analysis of the World just wouldn’t work. Period.
For the record, if said man looked like Idris Elba and/or had a UK accent, I could let all of the above slide for about…two-four weeks or so, give or take a few weeks here and there of relapse.
Preach SISTA,
Ladies, please stop believing this BS about a wealth of “inferior Black men.” Like who you like but please understand that this is a plot to destroy the Black family.
Look at the stats for a second, I haven’t heard once about the amount of women that do not want to marry, do not have a degree, or have been to jail. Not to mention that some of those things overlap so if those situations DQ you from being “marriage potential” in both genders, they are being double counted. Sigh.
As a Black man, I am not going to buy into it because it is a plot to get me to act crazy because “I have options.” Acting out or raising my standards too high is going to have me miss my blessing because I may shoo away who God has for me in search of Kerry Washington.
As a Black woman, you all are being told it is not realistic to want what you want because we ALL know Black men are on the whole lazy, felons, or gay. Better go date Tyler if you want to be happy.
If enough people continue to accept these lies as fact, there will be a paucity of Black family reunions. Like PE said, Don’t Believe The Hype.
*gets off soapbox*
“Look at the stats for a second, I haven’t heard once about the amount of women that do not want to marry, do not have a degree, or have been to jail. Not to mention that some of those things overlap so if those situations DQ you from being “marriage potential” in both genders, they are being double counted. Sigh.”
yeah, i mentioned this a few months ago here. while an unbalance ratio may exist, its nowhere near as bad as the irresponsible numbers cited would lead you to believe
You just made my paynus moist…I get dark during the summer and I’ll order some rosetta stone courses to get my accent on point…call me baby.
***side eye @atltx…gross
i know i’m sexy.
“The underlying message of coddling the “inferior Black man”, because that’s the best he will ever be/ the best we can hope for and we are not special/desirable/intelligent enough to want more.”
YES!
It’s why I hope Black men aren’t thinkin’ they got the “better” end of the deal (they get to choose dimes because society lets ‘em), because in the end, the whole “Black man don’t have to settle, but Black women do” is a HUGE insult to Black men. It’s essentially saying “you ain’t sh*t, brotha.”
Degree or not, about 50-65% of my attraction to a man lies in our intellectual chemistry so a basic lack of understanding/analysis of the World just wouldn’t work.
THIS!!^^^^
You captured it VERY nicely!
“Degree or not, about 50-65% of my attraction to a man lies in our intellectual chemistry so a basic lack of understanding/analysis of the World just wouldn’t work.”
I have seen this in action. A friend of mine (female) never finished college and has turned out to be pretty successful in the corporate world. Of all the guys she dated, she was the most comfortable with the athlete-type of guy (she’s actually dating one now and takes great pride it). I’m not knocking athletes at all, but this guy is 30-ish, very immature and comes off as a guy lacking in the brains area.
She’s just more comfortable being in a relationship with a man who doesn’t trump her intellectually. She’s even dated men who are incredibly intelligent and highly educated, and she ALWAYS complained about them. And it wasn’t any valid complaints; just little nit-picky stuff that it’s irrelevant. I now think she picks these athlete-types because they are more intellectually equivalent to where she is.
In my opinion, those who went to college (and wanted to go) value educating themselves AND want to put themselves in the best position financially. Some people put a bigger emphasis on money (over culture and education) so college, as well as dealing with college-educated people, may not be for them.
I can do w/o him having the degree as long as his intelligence level still coincides with mine. I can’t deal with him not making as much as me though. Point blank. Call me old fashioned, but my father worked his butt off to provide for his family and i expect nothing less. Not to say that I expect to just sit back and reap the benefits, thats not it at all. I plan on being right by his side being the support system that (according to the media) black women lack in their relationships
SN* I dated a brother that had less education than me, and for the first few months HE is the one that had the problem. I think he felt I would look down on him. On the contrary, I learned a lot from him
@melekaj
I honestly dont think women should have this hard and fast rule. For many of our parents there were alot of gender barriers OR our mothers didnt work full time. In my family my father worked his butt off too and my mother worked part time to help assist with the utilities as my dad handled the bigger bills. Today its alot of you out there who are bringing in bank. I mean if your making 100 grand do you really need to ONLY date a 6 figure brotha? If so, why? Your limiting out MANY well respected and great jobs. Public Sector Lawyers, College Professors, regular teachers, hell even Nonprofit Executive directors might not make that much money. I think you can find someone who would be comfortable with the disparity in the money as long as the woman is not belittling the other person and you treat each other as equals. You cant roll up one day and make a decision and say ninja I pay the bills!!!
@ColdSweat
N the wheels keep turning round n round. The same way you mentioned you only want to be with grad school educated females is the same way she only wants men in her tax bracket. Sure that may be “limiting” in a way, but if it works for her. All is swell then.
@Officer Ricky
Yah this is her and she can get what she wants but as a “hard and fast rule” as I stated for women who may be in the upper tax brackets im just saying dont be shocked if its a struggle. Hey if it works for her all is swell. She will be defying the odds. I will hear about her on Oprah at 4pm one day…
Does anybody really know ACTUAL black women who are turning down black men who do community service BECAUSE they make less than $100K? Or is this an urban legend that won’t die? And, people in those jobs you mentioned are/can still be middle class.
In my area men doing those jobs could easily make $70K a year. Last year, I made $70K as a social worker for CPS with only two years of experience in the field. And, I had the opportunity to meet black male social workers, public defenders, and deputy sheriffs who made at least as much.
@sandbalance
I have not encountered them. Was just saying if you set a salary range you cant make mega dollars and expect him too as well. Since so many of our sistahs are in high paying fields if they did this I would think they were absurd.
“Does anybody really know ACTUAL black women who are turning down black men who do community service BECAUSE they make less than $100K? Or is this an urban legend that won’t die? And, people in those jobs you mentioned are/can still be middle class”
yeah, i agree. this seems to be one of those wives tales/myths floating around the black community, told so many times that noone ever bothered to actually verify it
I can do w/o him having the degree as long as his intelligence level still coincides with mine. I can’t deal with him not making as much as me though.
See this is backwards to me. I would have a problem dealing with someone I would have to dumb it down for (No Lupe). While I can deal with someone making more money than I do. So you telling me that if your a doctor and he is a professor, you would have a problem with that financial relationship?
I guess I didn’t clarify my stance. I want a companion who is intelligent. I know people who only have a hs diploma and are very intelligent. I don’t dumb down for them; on the contrary I’ve learned a lot from the people i’m referring to.
As for my ideals on financial equality in a relationship I just think it shouldn’t be a big discrepancy. If I fall ill I want to know my husband can take care of business and vice versa! Again i’m not drawing a concrete line that can never be crossed, but this is what I hope for. I want someone who is on the same playing field. If this doesn’t make sense it’s because i’m rushing before my supervisor comes back lol
“And fellas (yeah!), could you live with being the one who doesn’t bring home the bacon (or turkey bacon for the non-pork eaters in the room) and had you by about three degrees?”
Coming from someone who’s going on 22 years old, graduating college in less than a month, and then going for my doctorate, if my wife is cool with me sitting around doing nothing, then so am I.
There are things I like to do, but I really have no idea what the f I actually want to do for a living. I take that back; what I want to do is watch baseball, so if given the opportunity to do so while my wife does her thing, then I’m fine with that.
And I’m down with the swine, but turkey bacon is some good shit. I’ll take it over pork any day of the week.
Funny enough I had this conversation with my mommy about 2 weeks ago. I’m living this situation at the moment. I graduated from university and I’m now in the process of applying to law school (cross your fingers for me). My fiance is most definitely blue-collar and to be quite honest, he’s the last person I would have ever seen myself ending up with. I don’t think that I had any specific “standards” for a mate, I just wanted someone who can hold a conversation, has ambition, treats me well and makes me laugh. All of which he does. I’ve actually told him that if and when I get into law school that he’s gonna have to be a house-husband. I’m far from domestic and I wouldn’t mind being the one to be the primary breadwinner. He’s west-indian so he’s not 100% down with the arrangement, but I’m sure he’ll come around. Having a degree isn’t the end-all-be-all to life. I know many people (my aunt who is my hero, financially independent at age 50…could retire right now if she wanted to) who do VERY well for themselves and didn’t go past high-school in terms of education. I think you can make a life for yourself if you have enough drive to do so. And as long as you’re in a relationship with a like-minded individual it can work. I think that if my fiance had issues with me having a degree or potentially making more money than he does, he wouldn’t be my hubby to be. If we can do to fancy dinners and swanky events and you don’t embarass me, we’re good as far as I’m concerned.
@Andrienne
1) Getting into law school is the easy part! The hard part comes later
I have alot of “if I knew then, what I know now” stories so let me know if you’d like me to impart my wisdom 
2) Congrats on the engagement and I hope you have a beautiful marriage.
3) I totally co-sign on your post. One of the best men I’ve ever known only finished a couple years of college before joining the military then becoming a police officer. While I was over here trying to pay off school debt and living in an apartment, his savings account was padded and he owned property!
People can’t want what they want and I’m not in a position to change that but I do think that people need to be flexible about the traits on their “list”. I’d hate to miss out on the man God prepared for me just because he didn’t come in the package I was expecting.
@MsEsquire77
“I’d hate to miss out on the man God prepared for me just because he didn’t come in the package I was expecting.”
I second this!
Please elaborate about law school. I know it is off topic but I need all the nuggets of wisdom I can get.
Back on topic-The psychological warfare the media has launched on black women has actually began to affect my law school selection process. My top pick is in Atlanta but the ratio monster says I will be doomed to spinsterhood or being the man of the house if I go.
@TrackStar–Are you on Twitter? If so, my name is the same on there so find me and we can talk.
“He’s west-indian so he’s not 100% down with the arrangement, but I’m sure he’ll come around”
Congrats on your engagement! But honey, that statement ^^ there had me laughing. Almost every west-indian I know stays with one or two jobs, especially the men. Not to generalize but they tend to be a very hard-working people with a strong work ethic. Especially the men. I’d be surprised if your fiance decided he was just gonna kick it around the house all day cuz you pull in enough $.
I know many people (my aunt who is my hero, financially independent at age 50…could retire right now if she wanted to) who do VERY well for themselves and didn’t go past high-school in terms of education.
Very true. My grandmother (one of my heros) did not go past 5th grade, but she built her baking business from the ground up and is building herself a kick-ass retirement home… with NO LOANS… and I’m talking about a woman in a third world country… so yeah, a degree is good for the exposure it provides, but it is NO way a guarantee of a successful life… just like no degrees is not an indicator of future failure…
“If they’re broke and you love them. Great. If you admire, respect, and appreciate them, great. Do you.”
^^Exactly. I am of the mindset that no one should settle, as you said just do you. If you love them and their resume isn’t looking like mine, who am I to judge or even care. if you dig them that doesn’t mean you settled, it means you’re with the person you WANT to be with (in theory). Now if you make the mistake of not wanting to be with someone and just be with them bc you don’t want to be alone then that’s your bad. The problem is, all these articles that focus on black women assume its the latter.
But to answer your question, I can be with someone that makes less money and may have fewer degrees than I do. The fact is for what I want to do I need a phd, not everyone’s profession requires all that damn schoolin’. I do however want someone who I can relate to and has similar experiences/interests/values/goals etc.; is intelligent and driven (like I am). But a degree doesn’t always equate to a stellar pick, so it’s important to focus on the fundamentals and not just the resume.
A former S/O of mine was a maintenance worker and although he attended college, he never finished his degree. I wasn’t initially attracted to him but he won me over w/ his charm and turned out to be an amazing guy. The guy before him, Fiiiiiiiinnnnneee as hell, such a romantic and had a PhD. Now, Mr. Handy Man wasn’t balling in salary like Mr. Degrees BUT he was just as smart, had TWO homes (renovated one and sold it) and come to find out, had mad paper stacked up. The college educated guy, had school debt, some credit card debt and was renting his condo.
My girlfriend recently asked, “Off [that] alone, who would you marry right now, if both asked?” …..
I wouldn’t be bothered if I made more money than my S/O nor would I be bothered if I was the one w/ a college degree and he didn’t have one. I’m wise enough to know that a college degree does not determine how much knowledge one has or how intelligent they are. It also says nothing about how well someone will treat you and how awesomely well you two will get along w/ one another.
lol were these people the same age? Of course if I didnt go to college and could go into a nice paying blue collar job I would have more than someone with a PhD who has been prolly a full time student for like the last 6-8yrs. Having guap today doesnt indicate what you may have tomorrow….The dude with the PHD may surprass other guy(possibly). Especially in the current home market lol
LOL. I hear ya and no, they weren’t the same age.
The PhD holding guy was about 5 -6 years older than the maintenance worker who did go to college for almost 3 yrs. He began saving money from a paper route and lawn mowing when he was 12 yrs old.
*shrug*
Having guap today doesnt indicate what you may have tomorrow….
This logic can be flawed as well. Guy 1 i.e maintenance man showed he had a plan and WORKED on it! Guy 2 is happy living the cliche/stereotype… by the time he’s done paying the school debts, Guy 1 would have invested in a couple more properties or even built a rental one…
Like someone said above, a solid plan has A LOT more worth than a fancy degree.
“Now, Mr. Handy Man wasn’t balling in salary like Mr. Degrees BUT he was just as smart, had TWO homes (renovated one and sold it) and come to find out, had mad paper stacked up.The college educated guy, had school debt, some credit card debt and was renting his condo.”
THIS! So true.
I once dated a guy who had credits towards a master’s degree in political science, dropped out of grad school, and had been delivering pizza’s for six years.
Another guy I dated barely finished high school, owned a condo (with an ex, but still), had lived on THREE different continents, knew multiple languages and what did he do for a living? Specialized athletic training for NBA players.
You just never know about people until you get to really talk to them.
Just no.
I am not interested in kicking it with anyone that does not have a degree. I know myself, I won’t respect the person. Hell, everyone in my age group that I know has a degree. I don’t understand why Black American women are being pushed to settle.
Women like you annoy me. If it’s not what you believe society says you should have, then black women call it “settling”. What about the guy an average blk woman would consider attractive, intelligent, NEVER went to college but makes over 13k a month (tax-free) with his Microsoft Server Engineer Certification. Oh wait…that’s me. Get a clue pls and stop being so close minded before the love of your life passes you by because you focused on a piece of paper.
this whole comment qualifies as a shots fired
*all smiles holdin smokin 45*
Tx10inch, your comment gave me butterflies.
@Cheekie
Tx10inch, your comment gave me butterflies.
Do they have degrees?
lol, I hatechu. I can’t e’en answer that.
Microsoft Server Engineer Certification.
Yay for Microsoft Certified folks!! Lol!
(Although we SDs don’t like you SEs…
)
@Sula
Ahhhh, the Solution Developer. *Darth Vader voice* Come over to the darkside young Skywalker…lol
The force in this SD is too strong for the dark side. Lol!
Dayum TX…you went IN.
*snickering*
YOU are my dude.
The old man fits this description perfectly. Degrees on his plate stacked higher than an onion ring presentation at Benihannas, but it ain’t worth a quarter. Well, compared my mother financially speaking. She ran her own business and the only certification she ever got was a high school diploma.
Let’s just say it taught me, degrees aint isht(i say this loosely), just make sure the bank account is always far off in the positive. So you’ll never catch me worrying about that certification nonsense, I’ll only judge you by your plan of action and goals. If you have more degrees and bring in more money than I do… hey, kudos to you… but well in for the both of us, cause baby, what’s yours is mine and what’s mine is yours. LOL.
I’ll only judge you by your plan of action and goals.
Pretty much.
and dead@ the end of your post. Lol.
Education is important,
Degrees are guano
If you don’t have, looks, social skills and a trade, you need a few high ranking degrees.
OMG. these conversations annoy me so much. i think we are focusing on the wrong things.
first of all, when we consider our history and role in this country, we’ll see that the US government and (dominant white) society has always tried to break up the black family so it could better use us as commodities for capitalism. the purpose of pointing out the disparities is to cause dissent in the black communities*: these news articles emasculate black men and make black women feel abnormal. then we start hating ourselves for not being “true” men and women (nevermind that those gender models are racist and sexist), and then we suspect and hate each other and then our relationships (and families and communities) are doomed by way of stereotypes and expectations.
if black men could be men in the way that white men can, then black women wouldn’t have to be breadwinners. but we don’t talk about that. not that that is a perfect situation (ahem, patriarchy).
we don’t ask ourselves if it’s *truly* detrimental that black women are the breadwinners and heads of household. that idea is only unacceptable to us when we look at it through the lens of dominant white society. we fail to remember that the nuclear family, picket white fence, and dog was never intended for us. we have to ask ourselves why do we want those things? do we really want *those* things?
whatever it is, if we want it so badly, then we must be willing to find other routes to it and be open to the idea that it may not look like the white standard. (which i’m all for. this is an opportunity for us black folk to envision and manifest ideals that are relevant to us and not just “alternatives” for white ones.)
ultimately, as long as racism exists, we have to find other strategies for surviving and thriving and loving. we will always come up short (i.e., these current quandaries we find ourselves in) if we model ourselves after white folks without thinking.
*when black women write about this stuff, we usually reveal our internalized sexism and racism.
“we don’t ask ourselves if it’s *truly* detrimental that black women are the breadwinners and heads of household. that idea is only unacceptable to us when we look at it through the lens of dominant white society. we fail to remember that the nuclear family, picket white fence, and dog was never intended for us. we have to ask ourselves why do we want those things? do we really want *those* things?”
i understand the point you’re trying to convey with your comment, and i agree that there are external factors making black love and/or relationships more complicated than it has to be. but, the quoted part of your comment is wrong. regardless of the society (unless you want to start counting lions and sperm whales) men are typically supposed to be the breadwinners. thats not “euro influence”…thats evolution
@Champ
Men have never been the total “breadwinners” . All that started last century. Before then the husband and wife were equally responsible for providing for the family. The man=breadwinner is from industrialization. And the man was the breadwinner by default because women’s opportunities were limited. Women haven’t been able to vote for 100 years.
“men are typically supposed to be the breadwinners. thats not “euro influence”…thats evolution”
Evolution, huh? So, you’re basically blaming the Geico cavemen?
**Slow clap for Champ**
The Bible states that the man is the main provider for the family and the head of the household.. It also states that if a man doesn’t work, he doesn’t eat.
@ champ, re: “men are typically supposed to be the breadwinners.”
says who? if it was a natural state that men were breadwinners, then it would be so. but history is filled with evidence to the contrary–indigenous folks in the Philippines, Egyptian history, Indigenous folks in Latin America, and creation stories the world over! (to name a few.)
peoples were forced from those ways by religion, slavery, war, etc. to say ‘supposed’ is to reveal how much imperialism, capitalism and oppression have distorted (y)our understanding of who we are and how we can exist.
just to go along with your argument…there’s nothing inherently wrong with being a breadwinner. however, in the context of oppression, it’s problematic because there are unequal values and power attached to the gendered roles of breadwinner and nurturer. if a man held the same power and value whether or not he was a breadwinner, then we wouldn’t even be having this conversation.
And fellas (yeah!), could you live with being the one who doesn’t bring home the bacon (or turkey bacon for the non-pork eaters in the room) and had you by about three degrees?
h*ll naw I wouldn’t have a problem not being the primary bread winner in the home. I have come to the realization that my chosen profession will not make me that much money.
As a college educated dude and potential graduate engineer, I only mess with people who are getting a college education or already have one, why? I think it has to do with the conversations we have, I tend to be on the same wavelength with educated ladies and I m guessing its the same for ladies. You don’t want to dumb yourself down. Heck I might ask my future wife for her transcript to ensure better breeding for the black race, jk.
if you wanna see transcript, then honey I don’t wanna see your TRIFLING script. Last time I checked it was genes, not academics that determines breed……….*signed women with transcript, academic prize and scholarship*
I’m curious as to what the fathers of the VSS who are being told to settle think about all this. Especially if said father actually was the breadwinner in the VSS’s family.
As someone with an advanced degree, I’d prefer someone with at least a BA but wouldn’t require it. If I thought he was intelligent, he knew things that I didn’t know that I thought were of value, and I enjoyed talking to him.
He would have to earn at least as much as me. Or at least be on track to do so in the near future. I live in a community property state. And really, I can’t see choosing a man who was less successful, resilient, hardworking, or ambitious than my father or grandfather.
Are there even enough “dimes” for every one of the the small subset of black men who has a degree, money/success, or moderate level of attractiveness?
“I’m curious as to what the fathers of the VSS who are being told to settle think about all this.”
Hmmm, my dad told me that I shouldnt let my fear of not being able to find a mate “on my level” stop me from getting a law degree. My grandfather (jokingly?) told me when I graduated from undergrad that I should “marry for money.” So although it hasnt been said explicitly Im sure they’d both tell me not to listen to all this settling bs.
I have an advanced degree and am a professional. My Dad is the primary breadwinner in my family. He raised me to view people individually. I am fairly certain that he steer me away from this settling crap. Personally though, degrees are not a deal breaker. I know some versy stupid educated people, just as I know some very intelligent uneducated people. Its all relative. The real issue is whether he can deal with his s.o. making more money or having more education because some of them can’t.
He raised me to view people individually.
Papa abeautifulmind FTW!
Um…I don’t think my father would think of it as settling. All my Dad would care about it if the ninja had a steady job, and if he was going to it everyday. He’d also be concerned if he would be able to take care of me, degrees probably would not even come up unless ol’ boy brought it up. My Dad is really into a person’s character.
However, this is all coming from the non-traditional student still working on her degree though…so…dah well.
degrees probably would not even come up unless ol’ boy brought it up
Same in my family. On my mom’s side, I have two uncles and two aunts. We’re all very close, but I have no idea what they even do for a living. I can tell you where/if they went to college, but nobody gives a damn about their spouses degree status. This has never come up in a family gathering and we usually have arguements and debates about everything.
**yawn** (long day) First off, screw the news/media outlets for continuously pushing this not-so-subliminal, demoralizing (Black man/Black woman ain’t sh*t) garbage for advertising revenue.
P makes some good points about the reality of modern american society (see England for canary in the coalmine).
To answer the question posed: it depends. She can have “bank & degrees”, however my status must be at a higher level. Obviously, said status marker(s) would not be based on finance or credentialism (education bubble economy?).
Respect, physical attraction, and admiration are key.
welcome and sh*t
It really trips me out every single time I listen to women who say they will dismiss a potential mate for not having a degree. Really?!?!?! What about all the other qualities that define a man that you’ll never have the pleasure of knowing because he didn’t share the same college “experiences” as you? Really immature IMO.
Those qualities that are SO hard to find in a good man according to all these women on VSB – Shared religious beliefs, faithfulness, treats you right, good in bed, simulating conversation, potential good father and husband to you and your kids, hard and (willing) worker, ambitious, provider, etc.. My point is that most of yall on some real double speak non-sense.
To PREFER to have a man with a degree is one thing, and a totally acceptable request, but to DISMISS a potential mate without a degree without getting to know him, his ambitions, or future goals is totally INSANE.
Most of you deserve to be lonely.
but to DISMISS a potential mate without a degree without getting to know him, his ambitions, or future goals is totally INSANE
I know everyone’s entitled to their own preferences, but I had to give this a head nod…like cutting your nose to spite your face.
I totally disagree with this. I would dismiss a potential mate for not having big enough breasts, why not for not having a degree as well? To you, it is just as arbitrary. So why does it matter more that I dismiss someone for collegiate accomplishments (or lack thereof) versus physical attributes or skin color?
I think it’s because as a member of the itty bitty commitee the female has a less likely chance (unless she pays for tig ol bidees) to change her feature that you deem unattractive. That conversation on VSB was deemed “Shallow Deal Breakers”. (i think) Whether it’s breast, feet, teeth, facial features or even personality that causes you to dump a potential mate, at least you had a CHANCE to get to know them and decide if it was something you were willing to deal with. (Unless you decided not to engage them in tha first place cause of such physical or personality flaws..)
Dismissing a good brother/sister cause they don’t have a degree before ever knowing if they even have the potential or willingness to someday pursue one all tha while screaming..”why can’t I find a good man??” is ludacris to me.
Years of experience have rendered me capable of judging breasts without having to get to know someone. I already know it is something I don’t want to deal with. First impressions are important. If she doesn’t have a degree and I’m not impressed by some other aspect of her life, then she’s written off. Right now, I don’t feel it is necessary for me to dig deep to find something I want. If there isn’t enough on the surface for me to be interested enough to get to know you, there probably isn’t enough below that would change the game.
*applause*
I completely agree w/ your comment.
It seems so…. closed-minded to ONLY want someone w/ a college degree as if that automatically makes them intelligent! <mind boggling
As I’ve always shared with a few close friends of mine: I’ve always wanted someone I could grow with. Point blank. And no, he does not have to be at the peak of his career in order for me to consider him as a lifelong partner. Don’t get me wrong, him being an educated man would be great, however….it is not a requirement that he has to have a college degree….especially when a lot of folks “degreed” or otherwise are one paycheck away from being stuck like Chuck and isht outta luck.
I’m more interested in his short and long term goals and his strategy/plan on how to get there. The man is resilient, ambitious and has vision. He isn’t spoon fed and/or used to having everything handed to him and can relate to both sides of the track. I actually find myself drawn to what some may describe as well rounded individuals…which IMO is a combination of street and book smart…add a little culture to the mix….along with the ability and skill set needed to work well with his hands (love it when he can fix things) and shows interest in picking up an article or book or two on occasion….and not to mention the tendency to initiate something thought provoking for me to marinate and chew on….man, I could go on.
….and well, that is my ideal, but I sure would not limit myself to these qualities and characteristics alone. It is my belief that some of us tend to pigeon hole ourselves into certain categories so much that if our potential partner were staring us in the face, we wouldn’t recognize him/her….with no clue of what “that” (potential partner) looks like.
And Panamanian Debil…I know you’re entitled…but you wrong for saying ‘ol girl’s trying to rationalize her man’s “shortcomings” according to: Society and anybody else who can’t make or break them nor really gives isht about them. I clearly saw that as her cheering her husband on for any accomplishments THEY deem worthy, while forsaking all others.. da hell with anybody else.
Her behind should be front and center cheering him on…she married him and vice versa. If it were me, I’d be right there in the whole getup..pompoms, cheerleading uniform and all instead of throwing my man under the bus simply because he doesn’t make as much as me or does not have as many letters behind his name as I do???
This whole divide and conquer charade is getting really old when it comes to black society using any non-black society as some sort of barometer of success in relationships. Oldest fcukin’ trick in the book…and its 2010 and too many folks still falling for the madness.
So glad I got the memo on such fcukery…what a liberating experience. LOL
Let me get on down the road….
Could I let my chick be the breadwinner? I’m not really worried about money. So yeah, I can live with that. I’m about living a life of significance, not about money. If I was chasing after money, I wouldn’t be trying to get a PhD in Clinical Psychology. This is a possible scenario if I get with a chick who specialized in economics, finance, or possibly law (for a couple more years, at least).
Hypothetically, could I date a chick who had me by 3 degrees? Naw. Honestly, I feel like this would eff with my ego. Intelligent women are wonderfully sexy, but I need to saddown somewhere if I’m just gonna let her get me like that. I’m too competitive for this not to be an issue and I’ve always been smart.
The biggest issue I could see coming into play is if things got serious and we have some crumb snatchers running around. Who’s gonna stay home and raise the kids? Cuz one of us is gonna stay home and raise the kids. I think having a parent at home during the development of a child to say, approximately 6th grade or so (and even beyond that) gives the crumb snatcher a better chance of navigating the obstacles of life…and I’m going to make sure my crumb snatchers have the best opportunities I can afford them in life. If the chick is the bread winner and I had to stay at home, I could see myself feeling some sort of way. I’d have to make peace with it, especially if the missus is bringin a significantly larger amount then I am. It’s just good fiscal sense, pride be damned, although, I know I would struggle with that. I’d probably try to practice part time or some sh*t.
As far as dating a chick with less education? Right now I like to date women that at least have a bachelor’s degree/are in the process of obtaining a bachelor’s degree. It comes from a place of 1.) wanting to have some in-depth intelligent conversation with women that I’ve found lacking in chicks who aren’t college educated and 2.) a desire to better themselves. It isn’t a guarantee of the above, but it’s a pretty good indicator.
Essentially, I can’t deal with a complacent chick. Complacency is the evil of all men (and women, I suppose).
Should women settle? I think women should do whatever it is that makes them happy. If that means they find happiness in the arms of the garbage man or only after sifting through the chaff to find a lawyer, it’s on them.
Also…having a PhD and knowing your way around a toolbox aren’t mutually exclusive. My father taught me that a man should be just as comfortable in a boardroom as he is in a garage. You should strive to be a renaissance man- the man that can do it all. Time is money, I understand that, but you should never be held captive to another person due to your own ignorance.
@Shay
“Who’s gonna stay home and raise the kids? Cuz one of us is gonna stay home and raise the kids. I think having a parent at home during the development of a child to say, approximately 6th grade or so (and even beyond that) gives the crumb snatcher a better chance of navigating the obstacles of life…and I’m going to make sure my crumb snatchers have the best opportunities I can afford them in life.”
Me, me, me! I heart you for this statement. I totally agree, and it does make a positive difference in a child’s life when one parent stays home.
Hmm. While I don’t knock housewives at all, I think I ended up turning out well with one single parent (and then two full time parents). I don’t think I would have a problem working a full time job, part time job, or running my own (small) business and taking care of my kids while my husband works. Kids are expensive and providing for them financially is part of making sure they have the “best opportunities in life.”
God bless you and women like you. I’m sure you make it look easy too. I’d rather my children want for another toy versus their parent’s attention, but if you can pull it all off, I tip my hat to you Miss Liz.
I was just going to read the article like I always do and avoid the comments, but Mr. Jackson pressed that button right underneath pisstivity, I knew better than to read these comments, however, I couldn’t help it. It was crack calling my name and I Whitney answered. However, I have a problem with this whole article and most of these comments. I’m 26 years old, I have 3 degrees, I own my own company, and I love my lifestyle. Now here’s my issue with this “I’m expecting too much” argument…I worked my assets off to obtain all that I have today. I hit the books, and hauled tail on the track to finance my way through college on scholarships. I graduated undergrad in 3.5 years because I was determined to be done “on time” also known as 4 years. Then I worked full time and obtained my grad degree at the same time. When Corp America said they could no longer afford me, I started my own. So here’s my issue, why in the hell would I want someone who didn’t or doesn’t work as hard as I do? Does he have to have a degree? No, but he better be doing something worthwhile that makes up the lack thereof. Now to this money issue, again I love my lifestyle. It’s not trickin if you got it, right? Now make this make sense for me. I shop in Hermes, and you think it’s a cure for Herpes? So I have to adjust my spending habits to make you comfortable, then in my spending add to my expense of “providing” for you, because obviously that’s not something you would EVER spend on, nor afford.
I’m not shallow, but I want my S/O to be on an equal or better playing field. That’s like Beyonce marrying the Average Joe. Nobodies mad Jay Z bagged her, because they’re on the same playing field, they compliment each other, and not just in finances. They understand the demand of time, schedules, work, effort, endeavors and then yes finances. Why make life harder than it already is? I’m supposed to spend the rest of my life with you, but we can’t relate to each other? That just doesn’t make any amount of sense!
Great points Mrs. Johnson! Your argument makes perfect sense (to me). I’m just annoyed by the women who won’t date a guy without a degree because of how it will look to her family and friends. Who sits up at night wondering and worrying will she ever find the guy she’s dreamed about…but she just dissed him at post office. But I still wonder..what about undeniable chemistry and attaction to someone who doesn’t meet your qualifications stated above? How do you pass up everything you’re looking for in a guy simply because he’s not everything your looking for on paper?
You are a unicorn…I masquerade as an average joe. Most folk will never know what Hermes is unless they’ve been in an international airport or shopping center in the overseas. Just like most folk think Givenchy only makes cologne/perfume. However, I’ve been there and done that. While you’re still doing it…it’s hard to not be judgmental of folks that are not broadening their horizons as you have (that’s how you found Hermes). But…focus on the experience of being enlightened rather than what you found that some don’t know about. Enlightenment is nothing more than common sense…and common sense comes in many varieties. You might know Hermes…but a blue collar guy may have traveled all of Europe in his lifetime…have you? His AC/Heating business may be netting more than your business…what if he looked down his nose at you? I’m just saying.
My gawd I know you are fine…you ran track in college? Your kind are like kryptonite to me.
Co-sign 100%!!!! I am a hard worker at the end of the day. I work three jobs sense I moved to the DC area to help support my lifestyle and my dreams. Being with a man who understands that he has to have passiona and drive to make his dreams come true is what my soul craves.
Why can’t Beyonce marry the Average Joe???? Non-Black celebs marry “nobodies” or someone w/ less star power than them all of the time.
I’ve only commented on here once before, but these comments have me heated. I didnt realize my fellow sistas were so shallow.
@Nick_L_Odeon-a degree isn’t as important as a plan is.
I totally agree. If college aint in his future, does he have a plan to move forward/up in life?
An ex reappeared in my life about two years ago. He was in the exact same spot as when we’d dated in the early 90s (drinking 40 ozs, getting high and unemployed). I asked him what he wanted out of life and he said: “I just want to sit in my basement, smoke my weed, drink my beer and live off my wife.” I’m not joking…and he couldn’t figure out why I didn’t want to be with him.
I asked another guy what he wanted to do with his life. He said “win the lottery.”
Thank you Panama for this post! I have felt gulity for years because I want to marry a breadwinner. A man who can financially support a house hold. But if I say that then I get “girrrrrl you gonnna stay single” speech. He does not have to have a degree to be stable either. He has to be very ambitious though and at the end of the day I want a man who knows what he wants and has the courage to go get that! I think it’s not fair for me to be with a man who settles for comcast. I drove 19hrs in my dodge neon to pursue my dreams in the DC area. It’s not like I am asking from him who I am not! I am old fashion, so that is me.
Oh where do I start??? First off yes, women out number men so men actually do have their pick of the litter. Men can afford to be choosey. Yes, if your current woman isn’t cutting it..you can always find another woman ready and willing. I resent you for this but it’s true all the same. Women are everywhere. More female births than male; we are just over populating huh? lol So go ahead and be picky brother but remember this….
What is your age? Cause if you are past 30 like me, your chances of finding a “good” woman get slimmer and slimmer because they are already taken…and that’s something we have in common. Also what kind of man are you? Cause chances are a DIME is not going to settle for a penny.
Real Talk
I don’t have to settle. (Yeah I said it, judge me all you want lol) Not because of my looks but because I actually do have alot to offer. (Yeah I said it, judge me all you want lol) My personality has been worked on by my mother (the ultimate woman) to prepare me for my adulthood. I’m a good companion and caregiver…EXCELLENT mother to boot. Sure I have my flaws, but I’m willing to take my chances and be choosey.
This whole man is going to be a man message and woman should just cater anyway is media and society driven. Men have created the rules in this world since the beginning and pump this message. Go back to the bible, it tells you exactly what a man should be doing…and keeping his d*ck in his pants, not lying, providing for his family, etc are just a few.
The key is to not have unrealistic expectations…and accepting someone’s sh*t and being happy is unrealistic.
Go back to the bible, it tells you exactly what a man should be doing…and keeping his d*ck in his pants, not lying, providing for his family, etc are just a few.
I know you’re just paraphrasing, but honestly…which book in the Bible were you reading that said “Thou shalt keep thine d*ck in your pants”? LOL
Lmao…the ebonics translation?
@SmartFoxGirl
I like your comment, but this right here:
“What is your age? Cause if you are past 30 like me, your chances of finding a “good” woman get slimmer and slimmer because they are already taken…and that’s something we have in common.”
Wrong, errday of the week and twice on Sunday. We have to say this again. Men and women are different. Men over the age of 30 or even 40 can and do date women in their 20′s. And God keeps making fine 20 year olds that love older men because we have matured in our finances, view on life, etc. Men are primarily attracted to women’s looks first, everthing else comes after that. Women take a more holistic approach and factor in income, status, looks, etc. At the age of 40 I can go and scoop a fly, fine sister aged 25-50 and take care of her like a queen and we can live happily ever after for the next 30 years. Women on the other hand have a clock. Your looks are depreciating assets. Sure you can go cougar when you hit upper 30′s 40′s and date younger guys but the younger guys will smash but their head will constantly be on the swivel for younger flesh. You won’t fill good about the situation and neither will he. Is it fair? Maybe. Is it the way of life? Absolutely.
The media is telling black women to get with it and “settle” or whatever you want to call it because your clock is ticking. If you reach middle to upper 30′s w/o being married… good luck, it’s gonna be a long row to hoe. For a man that reaches 30′s or 40′s w/o being married or if he is divorced, he can go to the nearest black professional meetup, shopping mall, bougie jazz club, salsa club on black night, etc., and throw a rock and snatch a fine ass 25-30 year old sista who’s got her ish together and wants to be a good wife and mother and has a good couple of decades of sexiness left.
If I’m over 30 I can scoop a 25 year old if I want. Get her right out of college and teach her all she needs to know about pleasing me. So, my time is not as tough as yours and in 10 years, if you don’t get married it will become as likely as being attacked by a polar bear and a grizzly bear in the same day. Me on the other hand, because I’m at least a 4 (No Arsonist), will be able to scoop a nice young smart, sexy thang and keep it moving and make us both happy. Sorry to bring the bad news but that is why the media is running these stories and they are gaining traction. Women have a smaller window in which to attract and get their ideal mate. Men’s window is much larger and our options are more plentiful. All my woman has to be is attractive and intelligent. I don’t give a rat’s ass if she has umpteen degrees. Can she cook, can she keep a clean house, can we talk about the topics of the day, does she like the vertical mambo
?
Oh you broke it down so it can forever and consistently be broke (love jones)…and YES. I stand corrected.
“If I’m over 30 I can scoop a 25 year old if I want. Get her right out of college and teach her all she needs to know about pleasing me.”
LOL, okay yes that’s how my ex got me…at 19….and stayed with him for 10 years.
This is why I resent you men (love you to death tho)…but DAMN it’s not fair. Forget you cause I’m 29 and look like I’m 21 and hopefully for 15+ years to come! So blaaaaaah lol
Your right on the money, as sad as it is true. I was thinking about this though….what about that young girl you scoop up? Do you have the patience to teach her how to cook, clean, manage finances, sex u right, etc??? How much would you have in common with her and how much would you connect emotionally? Think about that.
And btw…PRAY she doesn’t cheat on you, secretly using you, flirting with the younger guys on campus, can be trusted, etc. Bah hahahaha *evil laugh*
“Do you have the patience to teach her how to cook, clean, manage finances, sex u right, etc???”
…and I love y’all too! Of course I have the patience to teach her! That’s the point. I’m a grown mature man who knows what he wants. Most men over 30 have developed their level of patience. That’s all it takes is patience and will.
“How much would you have in common with her and how much would you connect emotionally?”
Plenty if she’s attractive and intelligent and a decent personality. Women mature much faster than men. Hell, I’ve met some women that are 10-15 years younger than me, yet are just as mature as I am. I think that’s evolutionary. Women have to be mature earlier because they could invariably become a parent much earlier than most men.
“And btw…PRAY she doesn’t cheat on you, secretly using you, flirting with the younger guys on campus, can be trusted, etc. Bah hahahaha *evil laugh*”
LOL! Hey, old chicks cheat too! I, personally, don’t worry about that AT ALL! I think I’m a catch and all of the women I choose to begin a relationship with are smart and can recognize greatness. There is only one of me and women realize that. Whether they are 19 or 45. They recognize when a man is a “good one” and other men pale in comparision, regardless how they look.
BTW, you’re cute and smart. Where you live (city)?
Hmmmmmm…*thinking* MIA lol
Older women do cheat but not as much as the opportunity is drastically limited in comparison to young women such as myself (29 aint old dammit)…the older woman is too busy being a woman to cheat.
Uh…I date white men…so I don’t give a shit.
***and you said this to say….
Is there a verysmartwhiteguys site for her?
loooool! *Dead, burried*
O__________________________O
It’s been a long time…any hoo…always great reading VSB
I have 1 degree, make enough money to support my kids, mom & grandmother. Have one husband who graduated from HS, and hustles hard. Whya re we getting divorced? Because he is in competition with me financially and it totally Fs up every other aspect of our relationship.
New flash: I didn’t marry you for money – and I earned more when I met you than I do now (damned recession!). I wanted love, companionship, mutual fun, consistent sex…the usual. Instead I get constant comparison, endless work hours on various money making schemes, no time together and resentfulness. Thanks, but no thanks
I think it is really wrong to assume that because someone did not got to college he/she is not educated or lives in poverty. My grandfather was not fortunate enough to go to college but he was highly educated. He studied all kinds of subjects. He was a gifted and skilled writer. When I went back and read some of his sermons I found that he rivals a lot of the greats. He made all his 16 kids a promise that if they wanted to go to college he would pay for it. He did just that. For 5/6 of them he paid for graduate degrees as well. I still meet people who tell my how exceptional he was.
My significant other barely graduated from high school and makes double what I make. He is not breaking his back to do it either. We have great conversations and enjoy a lot of different activities. I don’t feel he is beneath me.
How vain do some of y’all sound? “i need a girl/guy on my level.” “You mean you didn’t graduate?!!! Automatic dismissal.” For real who are you? What makes you so special?
I don’t know… I’m on the fence with this one.
But lately, I’ve been experiencing a new type of dissention among use “educated” black folks. My father obtained his bachelors, masters, and law degree and went on to create and run a successful law firm, thus getting an education has always been consider a must in my parent’s household. Because of his hard work and success, my siblings and I had the luxury of attending college wanting for nothing (tuition:paid, off campus apartment: paid, graduating from college debt-free: accomplished!). I went on to obtain my bachelors and masters and establish a great career for myself. But time and time again, I’ve dated black men with the same level of education as myself (or more) and when they hear my story, they immediately discount my achievements simply because I didn’t have the typical “college-life” struggle. I hate having to continuously remind them that while my college expenses were paid and I didn’t need a part-time (or full-time) job to survive, my parents did not go to class and take those exams for me! My degrees are no less valuable than yours!
I relate this story to say that, it’s not a good feeling to have people discount what you HAVE accomplished simply because you didn’t reach that goal in the same fashion they did. While I would prefer a man to who has just as much education as myself, I won’t dismiss him simply because he doesn’t. He may still be very successful at what he’s chosen to do. His experiences in life may be just as valuable and interesting as mine and because of that, he may be able to introduce me to things I didn’t even know existed. I think that’s more important than being able to list fancy credentials after your last name.
Uh if there’s a shortage of men, then there’s a shortage of dimes. Let’s say for kicks and giggles, we include 8-10 in the dime category because one man’s 8 is usually another man’s dime. All the men are going after that select group of women. The competition is so strong that a good number of men slink back down to getting with 7′s and below because they simply don’t want to or CAN’T compete with other men for the few 8-10′s out there.
My favorite suitor did not go to college. BUT, he’s an exception to the rule and has done ridiculously well for himself. He does make more money than me and his resume is better than mine. Even he recognizes this as an odd pairing. People assume he went to school and has at least two degrees. I think if he were a mechanic, or didn’t ‘look’ like someone I should be with, neither of us would be comfortable.
It really doesn’t matter to me. My ex-husband had one degree more than I did…and a high power career, etc…everything society measures as success..but in character, he was depleted and lost.
Now, I just want a guy who has the ambition to better his situation…maybe, he doesn’t want a degree..maybe, he wants to own a business or maybe he is an excellent handyman (lol). If he has good character and he is a nice person…That’s all that matters to me.
I’m not going to go as far as to take care of a man. He has to have a means of supporting himself and bringing something to the table, financially…I am not going that low. That is where I draw the line, sir…..
I just want a guy who has the ambition to better his situation…maybe, he doesn’t want a degree..maybe, he wants to own a business or maybe he is an excellent handyman (lol). If he has good character and he is a nice person…That’s all that matters to me.
**nod**
Do I care if I make more money? I haven’t in the past. In fact, every man that I have been involved with for the past 20+ years has made less money than me. My belief was that I could take care of myself and it didn’t matter what he had in his bank account.
I have since changed my way of thinking. When you date a broke-azz man you are limited by what he can and cannot afford. I don’t mind paying my own way (however, I shouldn’t have to) but I’m not paying his way too.
For me the issue isn’t having a degree or not…as someone above mentioned it’s having a plan and educating yourself at all times. So what if dude is a garbage man (who actually make very good $ here in NJ)? As long as he’s best dang garbage man he can be, I’m all for it…or perhaps he plans to start his own sanitation company…and he’s well versed in something that I’m not and we teach and learn from each other.
Perhaps my view is different because of my father. He’s a corrections officer…never went to college, yet he’s one of the smartest people I know…and open minded to boot. His book collection is amazing and he stays watching the History Channel. I’d be willing to wager I can put him in a room w/ full of folks who have degrees and he can hold his own.
Besides…I know ninjas that went to college who ain’t about sh*t and have the IQ of a toenail. Just b/c you have a degree doesn’t mean your motivated or goal oriented. You’d be surprise the amount of graduates who seem to “skate” through college.
So am I opposed to dating a man w/o a college degree…no. But I haven’t encountered one as of yet who I felt we’d be well for each other.
I don’t think a degree is the end all be all. The guys that I meet usually have at least a bachelors and I prefer that however, I wouldn’t dismiss someone right away if they didn’t have one. If I meet someone that is hardworking and pursuing there goals then that matters more, since there are some paths in life that don’t require it. I dated a guy that did the military thing after High School, I can’t remember exactly if he got a bacholor’s but he was doing very well for himself, 25, a homeowner. Besides, I have met some triflin’ lazy people with a degree. (Family has the money to pay for school and you go, only doing the bare minimum to get a degree. Usually picks the easiest major that doesn’t require any studying and coasts by. After graduating still becomes pretty lazy).
A couple thoughts.
First, the whole “there are no (healthy)Black Men, and there are 100,000,000 high-functioning Black woman all playing musical chairs with 20 seats and the music’s about to stop..” meme the media outlets are circulating is bunk. Everyday it gets increasingly harder for me to refute this point bc it becomes more and more like the “Black people are better off WITH slavery” argument… If you think that, I have less and less of an issue writing off your critical-analyzing skills. (Ignorance alert) Go back to your Omar Tyree novels and “Hosue of Payne” sitcoms and we can just give each other the head-nod when we pass in the street.
As far as degree vs no-degree. Can we here at VSB just AGREE that there are precious few black and white situations and most things are shades of grey. To that end, there is no ultimate right or ultimate wrong, however I do believe there is a CORRELATION (not of “1″ but a “tendency” if you will..) between people who have degrees and people who are high-functioning, critically-thinking healthy Americans. I think anyone who excludes someone or includes someone based off less than an in-depth analyzation is setting themselves up, but thats just my opionion.
Personally, I could date a woman who didn’t have a degree. Especially if her career didn’t demand one. KEEPING EVERYTHING ELSE CONSTANT (important phrase and also completely disjoints the next statement from reality..lol) I would prefer to date an artisy-type chick (with or without degree) to a corporate-type.. I just prefer the intellectual diversty
@its2010dammit (and anyone else who’s still reading which probably just means me and Liz) and @Liz – First, I tend to agree with Liz, and I would challenge you to enagage people w/o just trying, in your own words, “to push their buttons.” Obviously, you’re free to do whatever you want, you a grown a** man, but there are a sh*t ton more productive ways to advance an opinion and stimulate discussion, and “pushing buttons” is kinda intellectually lazy (and dishonest).
I could be less abrasive but where’s the fun in that?
Intellectually lazy? I post opposing views to get people to think about their position on an issue. If that’s dishonest, so be it
No Bullsh*t
Intellectually lazy bc you’re clearly a very smart person, and the way you engage with people is lazy for YOU. Nas, is lazy, that doesn’t mean that his work product isn’t better than 98% of art that humans produce, it means that its lazy for HIM.
As far as “dishonest,” yes, if you are advocating a view that you do not actually hold (like you just stated) for an ulterior purpose (such as getting the person to “think about their position” and not bc the view is one you hold) that is the definition of dishonesty. Especially since people are engaging with you bc they assume what you are saying is what you actually believe, when you have stated that is not the case.
I would also argue that the opposing views you post has less of an effect of getting people to think about their position on an issue, and has a greater effect of getting people defensive about their position and acts as an incendiary point.
I hope I haven’t offended you, bc that is not my intention at all. You’re obviously a smart person, and I often enjoy the humorous things you post. I just felt a way about what you posted and figuring that we’re both mature adults who are able to respectfully disagree ,wanted to let you know how i felt. Nothing but respect, though..
@n8te
“As far as degree vs no-degree. Can we here at VSB just AGREE that there are precious few black and white situations and most things are shades of grey. To that end, there is no ultimate right or ultimate wrong, however I do believe there is a CORRELATION (not of “1? but a “tendency” if you will..) between people who have degrees and people who are high-functioning, critically-thinking healthy Americans. I think anyone who excludes someone or includes someone based off less than an in-depth analyzation is setting themselves up, but thats just my opionion.”
Cosign 100%. This black and white absolute way judging people based off credentials bothers me. Degree=smart, High GPA=good work ethic and a use of practical intelligence, lots of money=smart, CEO,CFO,COO=smart, if you’re rich=smart. All of these things are not absolutes and I am tired of people writing your whole story based on statistics.
I used to say that I didn’t mind a man with no degree aslong as he had the “desire” to learn more, then I started letting my friends set me up with them and realized that I probably wouldn’t work because I take pride in my knowledge of things and my education and it often comes off as being a snob or a know it all, eventhough that’s not my intent. Atleast with a degree clad gentlemen Im able to engage in convo. The idea of dating someone regardless of their educational background sounds doable , but not realistic in some cases
Coppin ARCHANDROID TODAY YAY!!!!!!!!!
So excited beeen waiting for today a lonnnnnnggggg time.
You are out of this solar system Janelle, like moi’, so exciting!!!!!
Hold it now LOL
As long as a man is working and contributing to the household financially and otherswise because of the way things are, I believe that is ok for most women.
Trifling is not, being a kept man is not either etc.
To say the role of provider has been reversed is an understatement, alot of women don’t have the luxury of depending on a man financially or in any other capacity so “Sistahs are doing it for themselves” not necessary becuase we want to, but because we have to young.
If someone comes along for me with his mind, heart and spirit right, along with great finances etc I be glad for it, overjoyed but til then, if then…………..
Intelligence is not dependent upon degrees!
Intelligence is a must however.
I’ve been listening to a few tracks off that album…ol’ girl came with some heat on this one….may have to cop it myself.
And this…”Intelligence is not dependent upon degrees!
Intelligence is a must however”…is a pretty accurate assessment.
Honestly, most of us forget 70-80% of what we actually learn in the classroom. Moreover, what we learn has little bearing upon how we interact with one another in relationships. If anything, college teaches us how to socialize in diverse settings…most of this education comes beyond the walls of the classroom. When I meet women, I usually don’t even bring up where I went to school or how many degrees I have, cuz I think they should be able to pick up on my intelligence just thru natural conversation, not by how many frames are on my wall.
Love your whole style “D&G” LOL
I copped two @ Best Buy for 7.99 each BTW!
The difference is men dating dimes has nothing to do with income or education, we are guaranteed by nature that a certain amount of women will look good and have nice bodies.
Men don’t need parity, that concern is primarily a woman’s concern and whether there is or isn’t a shortage of black men, with women making more money and having more education and guys with MBAs dating strippers, waitresses, teachers and secretaries there are bound to be extremely successful women who have a harder time finding men with the same qualifications.
I’m all about a degree, I have a bachelors and currently working on my masters! If you don’t have at least a bachelors then don’t look my way. Education is very important to me so it should be for my mate as well. You also have to look at the location of the woman, I live in a college town so I honestly don’t know anybody who does not have a degree or they are working towards a masters or law degree etc. So I just generally expect for every man I see to have at least 1 degree.
I def think location has a lot to do with it. Living in Boston you cant throw a shoe without hitting at least a few dudes with a degree. It would probably be less common in say, Trenton, NC. You can really only be as picky as your location in some instances.
F*** settling. I’m looking for the man of MY dreams. Not CNN’s dreams for me, or my mama’s dream, or anyone else. If it takes my whole life to find him….guess I wasn’t meant to be married
careful what you speak.type upon your yourself!
Now that you mention it….I’m going to live a rich and happy life filled with the memories of the ones I love. Good. Now I’m covered.
Claim it!!!!!!!!!
FLyness, Fitness, Health, Wealth, Love unlimited, Good Fortune, Divine Favor and Blessings are mine.
@Orange Star Happy Hunting
I so LOVE your positive vibes! And I’m not just talking about today either…you seem like a generally happy person.
LaBakir, thank you chile!
Let the JOY out, thats what I say….let it resonate, even if your mood is sometimes different, LOL, never lose the Joy inside that is Divine(GOD), sometimes that is all we have to light the way in dark places!
@Orange Star Happy Hunting
you are very welcome. I don’t know if it comes naturally you to you or not…but I myself know it’s hard work (to remain positive). I had to re-train my thought process…and how I respond (not react) to life. I have my “off” days..but I try to combat negativity as much as possible…w/ affrimations…quotes…and reading books about spirituality and God from the Bible to Hindu texts.
“I so LOVE your positive vibes! And I’m not just talking about today either…you seem like a generally happy person.”
I agree with my homie, La Bakir. Orange Star Happy Hunting, I love (and agree with) your positive vibes as well. Especially the speaking (typing for the kids of the future) into existence. I live by that ish. But yeah, you do seem to be a happy person. You’re always laughing like sh*t and whatnot. I dig it.
LOVE ya’ll too, LaBakir and Cheekie and VSS’s and VSB’s.
I have to work @ it sometimes honestly, cause honey, please believe folk do try to steal your joy, or better yet want to know your “secret” whats makes you you, as if that will help them LOL SMH, when it really isn;t a secret at all, its simply being who the LORD created you to be, and owning it, good bad indifferent, it all composes the SUM of you and being confident in the LORD’s design for you and your life, not worrying about the next person etc.but living from the spirit.
Thats a good practice you do, LaBakir and we all do that to some extent, trust, unless you like being mean LOL..
Claim it!!!!!!!!!
FLyness, Fitness, Health, Wealth, Love unlimited, Good Fortune, Divine Favor and Blessings are mine.
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its funny, i’d never list “must have degree” on my list of requirements, but when thinking about it, i’ve never even dated or slept with someone who wasn’t either in college or already degreed. you can deduce that having a degree is more important to me than i realize, but i think it just comes down to where and how i usually meet women. the women who live where i live, frequent what i frequent, and know who i know just tend to have them.
as far as the male breadwinner thing (more specifically, can a guy be with someone with more earning power than him?), a factor i haven’t seen mentioned yet is career secureness. basically, i think a man who is happy and secure with his career choice is more likely to be ok dating a higher-earning woman than a guy who hates his job.
also, last point. for the women concerned about “current income”, if you’re looking for a long-term partner (ie: someone you can see you spending the rest of your life with) does it really matter that much if you happen to be making more money than he is at 25 or 30?
“its funny, i’d never list “must have degree” on my list of requirements, but when thinking about it, i’ve never even dated or slept with someone who wasn’t either in college or already degreed. you can deduce that having a degree is more important to me than i realize, but i think it just comes down to where and how i usually meet women. the women who live where i live, frequent what i frequent, and know who i know just tend to have them.”
Yup, that’s about it. You’re more likely to come across folks that are similar to you in education depending on where you hang. But, I’m always open should a dude who isn’t similar to me in education decides to slip by. Which tends to happen when I’m on my way to the place where I meet more college-degreed men. lol
i think a man who is happy and secure with his career choice is more likely to be ok dating a higher-earning woman than a guy who hates his job.
Great point!
as far as the male breadwinner thing (more specifically, can a guy be with someone with more earning power than him?), a factor i haven’t seen mentioned yet is career secureness. basically, i think a man who is happy and secure with his career choice is more likely to be ok dating a higher-earning woman than a guy who hates his job.
I did not mention this, but I should have. When I meet men who for example work for the cable company, metro system etc. they do not enjoy what they do! That is sooo draining. When I talk about my work and what I am working towards I get no support. And that breaks my spirit and that’s why I am over it. If you don’t like what you do for a living and not working toward what you want that is an issue for me.
It is your definition of the word ‘settle’. I have a good job and am currently pursuing my MS/JD at Georgetown and I would date a blue collar man. However, it has been my experience that a man can be intimidated by a driven woman who is working towards their goals. When I was finishing my undergrad and my ex was working on his doctorate, but I made slightly more than him and I had a ‘title’ (didn’t really mean much)he would trip and say that I should pay for our trips and dinner. I had to ‘ask’ his permission when I wanted to decorate and bought a shower curtain with my own money for my place (which he had to move into). At the time he had a higher education, but was still an azz. Get past all of those degrees hanging on the wall bs and focus on the individual..sometimes those degrees just mean that you have more debt
I know someone who was doing very well for herself and her degreed up husband just lost his well-paying job and refused to take a position he felt was beneath him in order to make a contribution. This immature douche just stayed unemployed. As a result, she ended up resenting him for the added stress of supporting them both and it affected their relationship. The problem was his inability to be flexible with his idea of success. He’d rather be unemployed than adapt and I know a lot of men in particular who behave similarly. People can argue that having a degree can afford you the ability to be marketable and attractive to employers but that argument frequently carries the suggestion that someone with a degree has more value/social capital than someone who doesn’t, which is painting with too broad of a brush.
or is it too broad a stroke…that’s one of those sayings I will never get right…lol
@RocktheCatbox
“People can argue that having a degree can afford you the ability to be marketable and attractive to employers but that argument frequently carries the suggestion that someone with a degree has more value/social capital than someone who doesn’t, which is painting with too broad of a brush.”
And this is the problem I have with degrees and I have one. IMHO it is a lazy way at evaluating an individual. A lot of companies want someone with qualifications out the @ss for a job where you don’t need them. I see this and I have a degree.
@Humble_One
A lot of companies want someone with qualifications out the @ss for a job where you don’t need them. I see this and I have a degree.
Gotta agree with this. I know folks who have jobs just b/c of their degree…not that they necessarily have the skills to be efficient at their job
this story intrigued me…what happened with their relationship or are they still going thru it
They are still going thru it but it’s strained. He found a job eventually that was “on his level” but she’s been side-eyeing him ever since!
@RocktheCatbox
My friend did the same thing. Lost her job. Interviewed for a manager position at a coffee shop, and the hit her w/ the okie doke about taking a position as a barista. I understand why someone would be mad. Don’t you know this bish didn’t take the position b/c it was beneath her. Soooo let me get this straight; you’re too good to be a barista b/c you have a degree, yet stripping at one of the most disgusting strip clubs in the area is ok.
She just wanted an excuse to follow her stripping dreams! Lol!
I use to think I know what I wanted and needed when it comes to relationships; but do any of us REALLY know until we have had that experience for confirmation? With that said: Honestly, my S/O having a degree is definitely not a must have for me because there are more important qualities that outweigh it. Being married before (and I’m sure many of you who are/have been married before will understand) your priorities change in a major way once the initial butterflies wear off in the relationship. Aside from having a connection (including being able to relate intellectually; which by the way…..is possible if one person is degreed and the other is not) A person’s character and mutual respect for each other (as a whole) is what I value in a relationship. Yes, we all are attrated to certain attributes; so naturally that is what you will seek. But beware, sometimes things that are more important to you (e.g. having a college degree) may become less important when the truth about relationships slaps you upside your head.
With that said, It would be cool if my dude had a degree (because I have 2). But if he doesn’t, it is not a deal-breaker because I value more important things that are more important to a successful relationship. In terms of his career, if he has demostrated ambition, is proud of what he does and has succeeded in upward mobility in his career without a degree, I will respect that about him.
Always a great topic. I read the article yesterday and wondered why it had been published. For whatever “value” it had, it’s also overly obvious. The idea of a woman being more educated and higher paid than a spouse isn’t strictly a “black” issue. Modern women have choices. Educated women should have even more choices. Modern educated black women however, may feel trapped by the “shortage.” Here is my advice:
1. Develop standards. These should be kept to deal breakers. Drugs, criminal record, baby mommas, education level, financial responsibility, values are big on my list. If your list is all about looks, cars and clothes…you may be shallow. If you develop standards, but never hold anyone to them, you have self worth issues and need help. Often over looked on this list is reciprocation. You can’t go through life chasing people that don’t like you back. If you are over 25 (generous) and hung up on someone who doesn’t want to be with you just eat a bullet.
2. Develop likes vs dislikes. Not deal breakers, but steer you in the right direction.
3. Do you. With or without a mate you should have goals and be working toward them. Success is attractive to attractive people.
4. Be open minded. Idris Elba/Halle Berry is not into you. Stop worrying about your Hollywood fantasy life and have a real life.
5. Don’t settle but be realistic. I have an MS in engineering and make good money. My wife is a surgeon and makes 2.5 times what I make. Did she settle? Maybe. But we meet minimum standards for each other and we actually like and love each other. If she had waited for Idris Elba to become chief of surgery and sweep her off her feet…anyway that’s what role playing is for.
My take may be different than most because I grew up in a household where my mother made more than my father. Both of them were college educated. I don’t see why money would be an issue. Unless you are the type of person that equates money to being a man. I don’t see what the difference is. It’s 2010 not 1950. I look at relationships as partnerships. I don’t feel it’s my duty to take care of an adult woman. And I don’t feel like more of a man because I can take care of an adult woman. We should both be in a situation where if anything happens either one of us can pick up the slack of the other person.
I was in a LTR with a woman that had a master’s degree and was working on a second one. At the time all I had was an Associate’s Degree. I was waaaay more informed and read more than she did. Having a degree does not mean you can hold an intellectual conversation. My ex would watch 106 and Park everyday and couldn’t speak intelligently on several issues. Maybe it’s just me but I’ve been disappointed several times by women I’ve met in college or have graduated from college. Malcolm X didn’t go to college and Dick Gregory didn’t finish college so college isn’t the end all and be all.
In moderation? I’m starting to think that if I actually cursed I would be in moderation less.
@Humble_One
You stay in moderation *hands you dunce cap*
@LaBakir
“You stay in moderation *hands you dunce cap*”
LOL. Right I’m like the bad kid in class.
@Humble_One
Ha! For reals!
lmfao @ “he got talent”
Though the thought makes me cringe, there IS a valid reason why women are expected to settle and men aren’t. Because yes, it’s a numbers game. Thing is, while I may be expected, doesn’t mean I have to do it. And besides, “settling” is subjective. Settling to one woman may be dating someone who makes less money than her, while settling to another woman may be dating someone who is shorter than her. It all depends on what bothers you and what doesn’t.
And to note something else, I find it interesting that men date dimes, but is a “dime” only measure in physicality? Wouldn’t a true dime have it all? A great body AND a great mind? And if this lady has a great mind, wouldn’t there be a chance she’d make more money than the man? Which, in turn, generally bothers men greatly. So, if ya’ll looking for true dimes, don’t ya’ll sometimes overstep your boundries?
Lol @ this, ” find it interesting that men date dimes, but is a “dime” only measure in physicality? Wouldn’t a true dime have it all? A great body AND a great mind?”
lol, I’m SO sincere.
With all the dating shows going on right now, it’s easy to see why people think (we) women should settle. As a man, if YOU are a “dime” with looks, humor, respect, ambition/career, financial security, a degree (or not), fashion sense, personality and all of those great qualities, then by all means please be as picky as you can. But you CANNOT look like Flava Flav and even consider the possibility of a woman settling down for u…those women may be dimes, but they are also goldiggers and will use you til the next meal ticket comes along. Since the perfect ass-to-waist ratio is a must for those chicks, then hey you get what you PAY FOR…a gorgeous woman that will last as long as your money does (think about that…)
I’m not a dime, but I’m a “skrong” 8 lol. And for those with allergies to “fake” –> hair, nails and chest = all REAL. Am I picky, you damn right. I’m not going to bust my ass to make a good life for myself and get with a man who can’t appreciate the value of a good work ethic or a good woman.
I have a degree, an MCSE (I see you Tx10inch!), great credit, nice car, a house I got my parents, and I just turned 31 last week. I’m funny, intelligent, charming, laid back and passionate. I have great friends, and an active social life. I also have no kids because I want to have a traditional family upbringing for them. I’m not clingy or superior nor will make u seem less than a man because you might make less than I do.
I never liked the term “settling down” for anyone because it truly sounds negative. Being picky about the man I want a future with is my prerogative (the R&B king), and while I have some requirements (respectful) I can admit – a degree is “good to have” not a “must”. At the end of the day, you have to want what you can offer and moving on up is not just your SO’s requirement, it needs to be yours too…wanting someone on my level is realistic in that sense.
@MsTwix
Soulja Girl tell em..with dem looks and that resume somebody gon slop u up like biscuits and gravy gurl! I see ya Microsoft swag is strong…
I just turned 31 last week
I must say 1979 was a good year… *strokes chin*. Lol!
@MsTwix
“I just turned 31 last week”
Welcome to the 30+ club (where we are still young; but a lot smarter than we used to be!) : )
Being that I know you in person
…I cosign that you have the looks and personality to match.
With that being said, you stay droppin that knowledge P. I soak up your every word at lunch time. PREACH!
i’m sorry i don’t think that i could accept that large of a gap in income between my future wife and i. i just have too much pride. luckily i probably won’t have to worry about her having more degrees than me. actually the degrees aren’t even the issue. if my future wife and i earned near the same amount then that’s all good. i just couldn’t sit back and watch my wife make all the money that pays for my living costs. i would feel like such a bum.
while i’m progressive when it comes to a lot of things, i’m still very old-fashioned when it comes to others. one of these things is not letting a woman take care of me. i could understand if i was injured or something and i couldn’t work for a while but to just let a woman take care of me when there is nothing physically wrong with me? h*ll no.
A degree does not mean everything and ultimately you will have to GET TO KNOW THE OTHER PERSON. I dont think any man or woman just hears your educated and says “OOOHHHH THIS RIGHT HERE IS THE ONE, HE/SHE A DOCTOR!!!” I can only speak for myself and what I have found and it’s that while there are those with a degree who are not movers and shakers and lack goals I have found a lot more of those with degrees who are. Sure there are brothers like Tx10inch(by the way I feel kinda gay just for having to write your name) who have skills be it technical, mechanical, even catering that JUST MAY and veryyyy possibly make more than someone with a degree. Hell I was an American Studies major in undergrad if I didnt take my black @$$ to law school id be doomed, shoot still can with this economy but people will always need a mechanic. So more power to the women with their mechanics. However, women yall are approached by many a ninja on a daily basis. While I would love to see and believe that there are many brothas out there who are making alot of ish happen without a degree and using their talents/skills to get this guap some of you just may Reggie Bush a ninja in the approach who is lacking a degree. Could he be making more $ than the dude with a PhD? Hell yah he could. Could he also be the man at the Shell gas station(and NOT manager)? Hell yah he could. The reality is most people who are living in poverty are lacking formal education(not saying they are not intelligent). Not only are most of those living in poverty but it is usually generational poverty and can sometimes be a tough cycle to break. Out of the many ninjas that approach you ladies without a degree how many of them(on avg) or actually in one of these really good paying trade professions or owning their own business(since black business are rare). Sidenote I just thought about this for many of these “trade” type of professions that may pay very well they are pretty male dominated industries so I think if I met a non-degreed woman I would stiff arm her so proper but then again we are typically the pursuers so I will speak to the other person in the room perhaps who does have the degree. The brothers who may be a degree or multi-degree toting brother should not act a @$$ because we are aware of statistics but perhaps we want a woman who if our career ends can POSSIBLY have the earning potential to make up for what I had. Shoot thats called common sense/safety.
I dont think any man or woman just hears your educated and says “OOOHHHH THIS RIGHT HERE IS THE ONE, HE/SHE A DOCTOR!!!”
I beg to differ with this statement…but only because of personal experience. While I have a bachelors degree and a masters degree, my ex-boyfriend (who was an attorney) left me in 10.8 seconds flat for a woman who had a MPH and MD. He married her less than 12 months later, and I think a lot of that had to do with him equating success with “The Cosby Show” dynamic. So, while many men may say that a woman’s credentials don’t matter, ya’ll tend to act differently and then rationalize the hell out of it, talking about “it’s just different for men”!
@More is More
I’m willing to believe that her advance degree was not the reason for your break up (a bonus in his mind, yes….but I doubt the reason).
I wish I could give him that much credit, but I can’t. He was one helluva shallow and superficial a*shole. I knew that while I was dating him though, so I can’t even be mad that he simply acted on what he believed!
@More is More
We’ve all dated someone who we knew (in the back of our minds) weren’t really good for us (because they are just not good people). But hopefully we learn our lessons.
@cnotes
I agree with Cnotes. I think while this may appeal to the allure of another woman. I am victim of this my damn self. Sounds trife I know but I met a girl who did have more credentials than the girl I was talking to and it did peek my interest cuz she had a MD. Would I leave the girl im with if things are working smooth for a doctor? Helllll no!!!! Unless I thought things would run even SMOOTHER with the doctor and not just bill paying.
@coldsweat3
“Would I leave the girl im with if things are working smooth for a doctor? Helllll no!!!! Unless I thought things would run even SMOOTHER with the doctor and not just bill paying”
That’s what I was thinking when I made my first reply. I mean, I’ve never personally met anyone who made a relationship upgrade strictly on the basis of the degree (e.g. My ex’s BA isn’t making the cut anymore; I need someone with a JD!) o__O
Additionally, I’ll end on this note: any form of higher learning…be it a license, certificate, trade/skill or degree …are major accomplishments to be damn proud of; because the knowledge and experience one gains cannot be taken away…and should not be taken lightly.
I just think both sides are sometimes guilty of ishttin’ on the other all because another individual’s path did not work for them. Although I’m sure, that was not intent for today’s the topic of discussion….it really just all boils down to preferences, which is why I’m a little baffled how some folks feel the need to throw shade as an attempt to prove why their road to success and who they decide to “make it” with…. trumps all the rest.
I’m proud of those who have excelled at their crafts and even have the pleasure to enjoy making a living out of what they’ve worked so hard to accomplish. Hell, I’m proud of myself…its been a long road, but well worth it….and I’m still puttin’ in work to reach that “end” result.
…which is why I will continue to do whatever makes my skirt blow, no matter how insignificant others will occasionally make my own personal goals out to be…’cause in the end, I have to live with every single move that I make.
Aside: I’m still glad that the commenting is back to normal because if it would’ve been the “comments on multiple pages format, I wouldn’t have SETTLED for that. So thanks
Champ, Panama, andLiz for fixing it! Ya’ll woulda had a VSB fam revolt if it changed. I saw that ish brewing…Cosign, Cheekie!
As I was reading today’s post, I almost bailed on the comments section because I just didn’t think I had the time to be scroling through multiple pages. Order has been restored!
LOL! You’re welcome. I still have to change some things around because on the real comment-heavy pages, the page just stops loading, mid-page, but that last solution was not working either. Thanks for the feedback.
i refuse to “settle”. i think it’s perfectly ok to have high, but realistic expectations. I think if you settle now, it’ll only lead to more problems in the future.
both of my parents are the only of their siblings to attend college, so I know that you can still be smart, successful, and happy without having a slew of degrees. HOWEVER, my parents raised me to value and pursue education, and I desire a mate that has the same values. I’m not saying that a JD, MBA, MD, PhD, etc., is only my list of requirements for a man. But most of the circles I run in, friends I have, etc. etc. are degreed professionals, so I just think with this being said (my values, my surroundings, etc.), my chances of ending up with a “blue collar” man are slim to none.
im sure this may sound corny/lame but i’ll put myself out there anyway because this is something that ive struggled with for awhile…
last night i met with some young women who go to my church to discuss being single Christian women who have aspirations to be married. a young married woman (a minister) led the discussion. long story short, i recognize that God is going to send me the man that’s right for me, whatever that may mean (hell, i admit idk but im trusting G).
i want to be HAPPY and in a loving relationship and as i get older i realize i cannot be hung up on the paper credentials a man has because i could be missing out more important things–like a man’s soul. in my mind i’ve always seen myself with some one who is similarly educated as me (college, maybe an adv deg) and makes a good living (read: has a career with a salary) but as i mature i realize this can manifest itself in numerous ways. it doesn’t have to be an esteemed tenured professor, a chief of surgery at a big time hospital or CEO of a fortune 500 company… because there are all too many stories about the wives of these men being unhappy, bitter, and depressed– with a closet full of louboutins, prada, and furs in their million dollar home. money doesnt equal happiness. so i shouldnt be bothered tryna chase dem dollas.
ALL that to say, im cannot and will not continue to be worried about a man’s worth as measured by degrees and pay stubs. all thats well and good but my happiness and well being is more important.
@Gem of the Ocean
I sincerely pray things work out for you Gem. We’ve chatted off line a number of times. You’re one of the few that finally “gets” it. Things will definently work in your favor soon.
Either date a man who can fix stuff, or who can afford to pay someone else to. The middle just doesn’t work.
The best thing about my last ex was that he could fix ish. Car broke down? He could get it started. Needed a piece of furniture? Built. Pipe burst? He might not know how to do that one, but he could barter another service. You don’t need as much money if you can do things yourself.
I’ve dated dudes with degrees ( I don’t have mine…yet…working on it), and they made considerably less than I do. My best friend doesn’t have one, yet he is one of the smartest people I know (dude has given me the thesis for most of latest my history papers) . You could have a ton of degrees yet be stupid and broke.
Welll as someone who just gave a substantial amount of money to a handyman who may or may not be an undocmented worker (heh) – and needs him to come back today to look at this leak – I would sho’ nuff take a blue collar man right about now. But I work in the non profit world so I can’t talk too much ish how much money a man needs to be making.
When reading this post, I keep thinking of that Lil’ Brother line, “But you should know by now that ALL n***as is dogs… Better to have a rich Pit than a broke German Shepard”
Like I said…the only guys that can afford to be picky are the ones who are DIMES themselves….otherwise you’re a fool to not wonder why that dime of a woman is with your nickel *ss.
Wise up fellas. Beauty does not equal quality all the time…look beyond the surface and you will find the real. Divorce rate is sky high so it looks like we can ALL afford to be choosier. Moral of the story…Don’t Settle
@SmartFoxGirl
“otherwise you’re a fool to not wonder why that dime of a woman is with your nickel *ss”
LMAO!!!!!!! I heart this!
@SmartFoxGirl
“Like I said…the only guys that can afford to be picky are the ones who are DIMES themselves….”
Which is why a 1.5 such as myself takes what he can get.
First…has any1 actually listened to the lyrics to Teairra Mari’s sponsor song? Catchy @ss beat…but DAMN…if that aint a whore tune! She is very pretty and I like the purse in the opening shot tho. Gotta see if there are any secret doors in china town that have a good ‘replica’…
Ok, focus – on to the topic….
This whole discussion is hillarious. I really don’t give a rats patooty [how is that word spelled anyway?] what someone else uses to ex out ‘potentials.’ Real talk, if you are the fool that dismisses ‘good’ folks simply cuz they aint got the same degree(s) as you….you just upped the numbers in my potential boo pool!! So yaaaaaaaaaaaaay …more options for me!!
It all boils down to WHAT is important to you [the individual] and what you can/cannot work with in a significant other. If you are that dude or gal that puts that much stock in the degree alone – then you WILL inevitiably be miserable with someone that comes up short on your ‘list.’
In my opinion, thats just too bad for you if having a degree is a non-negotiable term. BUT this is just my opinion, and seriously…I really don’t care how the next person chooses a lover.
Wait…one more thing, if you are that person that has a “must have a JD, MD, DDS, MBA, to fux with me” mentality BUT as the fates would have it…. some-inexplicable-how, you end up hitched with a lesser degreed ‘undesirable’ anyhow, AND yet all the while you are still constantly fantasizing about having hot torrid sex while twirling a grad cap tassle around your pinkie toe (the tassles are kinda chunkier the higher the degree…sometimes), THEN my dear brown citizens, it follows that the degree-less mate will be just as miserable with you BECAUSE you are so offended by their ‘deficiencies’…and they simply could never please you. This situation does NOT a happy pair make!!
SOOOOOO, its best that you two don’t ever try and make it happen. We gotta keep this world happy. Only people that WANT to be together and find happiness and fullfillment in each other should be together. PERIOD.
So do you! Find what you want [if it even exsits] and be happy with it! I shall not disturb your flow.
And for the record, I’m an attorney, went to a snazzy undergrad and law school. have my own practice..AND the most beautifullest {where is keith murray? is he still alive?} relations I’ve had with friends, lovers, random people etc., do NOT have NADA to do w/ their degrees and ish.
ps- IF you know a good secret door in china town (NYC) holla at me…I dont know Hermes!!! LMAO!
“AND yet all the while you are still constantly fantasizing about having hot torrid sex while twirling a grad cap tassle around your pinkie toe (the tassles are kinda chunkier the higher the degree…sometimes), ”
The visual on this is hilarious! I totally agree with the sentiment of your post.
@lo-wonder,
I’m running off of three hours of sleep….looking like a chingy eyed bobblehead over here, but your post was hilarious and I’m absolutely too sleepy to laugh as loud as I did.
LOL
Well over at CNN they’re speaking on this same topic:
http://www.cnn.com/2010/LIVING/05/17/professional.women.date.blue.collar/index.html?eref=rss_topstories&utm_source=feedburner&utm_medium=feed&utm_campaign=Feed%3A+rss%2Fcnn_topstories+%28RSS%3A+Top+Stories%29
So I guess the new message to all us single ladies: See women DO marry men with less money and education so what are all you ladies waiting for?
This is just more media crap to make $$$.
He need’s at least a bachelor’s and good credit. I don’t care if he makes less than me.
Perhaps my view is different because of my father. He’s a corrections officer…never went to college, yet he’s one of the smartest people I know…and open minded to boot. His book collection is amazing and he stays watching the History Channel. I’d be willing to wager I can put him in a room w/ full of folks who have degrees and he can hold his own
““““““““““““““““““““““““““““““““““““““`
Well said sista, but the real issue here is the historical double standards that society has had ince the beginning of times, men have always been the ones doing what we’ve considered ”manly” like being the strongest,earning more,fighting wars and so on and so forth
In modern America we tend to equate success or achievement based on 2 factors:education and income i.e you`re a graduate of this college and your earn this amount and guess what? you’re successful but then again its not that easy i mean this same society has succeeded in brainwashing us that ”hey even if you graduate from say Yale then somewhere somehow you’re smarter and more likely to be successful than the one who graduates from a college in Wyoming ” so what is a man supposed to do?
Speaking of your father he, in my opinion is just as smart as anybody else but most would dismiss hm because he doesnt the certificate from some higher education institution which is ridiculous
@oliver
thanks, and I agree with your points as well. Society is cruel,lol. D*mned if you do, d*mned if you don’t
@oliver & LaBakir
“Speaking of your father he, in my opinion is just as smart as anybody else but most would dismiss hm because he doesnt the certificate from some higher education institution which is ridiculous”
And this is one of the things that “grinds my gears”. It has gotten to the point that if you don’t have certifications and degrees coming out your ear you are useless. I get so tired of hearing “yeah you went school but you didn’t go to this school” or “what do you know I have degree A,B, and C”. It has gotten to the point where the elites or so-called elites have confined intellect, ability, and skills to a small box.
@Humble_One
It’s really quite disgusting. I’ve been around folk and no matter what we are doing…education seems to come up. I’m not saying people shouldn’t be proud of their accomplishments…but sometime I feel it’s a way to judge and weed out people who don’t have degrees.
I expressed this to my father ( I have a B.A.) and how frustrated I get…and sometimes I begin to question if I should go back. He told me that’s just their egos…and I agree. When I’m good and ready, I’ll go back. It’s not a matter of me being scared or thinking I can’t…just not in a position to do so at the moment. And I’m not one to be faking jacks or keeping up with the Jones’
Also i have a few questions for all the VSS and VSBs here
what is success? i mean it seems like this question alone might make Stephanie Grace look like an angel..is there a clear,precise and concise definition of success?
-Do some of us in America realize that not everybody wants to go spend 4or 5 yrs of their life on a campus and maybe have other ventures they want to pursue? ( white men have been particularly good at this), so what do we tell these people who have no interest in college? ”you’re no good cause u aint go no degree?”
-If a woman with a college degree who is on a $60k/yr salary meets a dude who only has a high school diploma and who through his dreams,hard work ethic,creaitivity and inspiration manages to pull $300k/yr the joke is on who then? is he considered successful ? if yes why? if no, why? inquiring minds want to know
@oliver
One of my measurements of being successful is being HAPPY w/ your career and you’re living well (for your standards). I know so many people unhappy w/ these high profile positions. Show me a person that is following their dream/passion, and I’ll def tip my hat to them.
@oliver,
Well, first off…isn’t it a little foolish for someone to base their own level of “success” by another individual’s…? I mean, its seems like apples to oranges trying to get everyone’s opinion or rather definition of the word success….too many perspectives. Now, if you’re going to base success off of how much more or less two or more individuals make based on your example….I still cannot say for that the person who obtained a college degree is less of a success…. I mean, according to whom?…and how does that take away from what she’s worked hard for….and learned?
I know of a few folks, mostly men…who did not go to college and earn a six figure salary. Do they earn more than their partners? Yes. Does that make her less of a “success” ? I don’t think so. One’s just more financially secure than the other as far as yearly incomes…..and that can go both ways.
But like I said…there are too many variables…’cause there’s always more to the story. Because there’s no telling how the $$$ are being spent.
@oliver
“Also i have a few questions for all the VSS and VSBs here
what is success? ”
“Do some of us in America realize that not everybody wants to go spend 4or 5 yrs of their life on a campus and maybe have other ventures they want to pursue? ( white men have been particularly good at this), so what do we tell these people who have no interest in college? ”you’re no good cause u aint go no degree?”
Success is defined on your own terms. The problem I have is that in America success=money and status. And things are set up to force everyone to go to college and strive to climb the corporate ladder. That life is not for everyone but schools, colleges, parents, etc. try to gear everyone towards that. People act as if the electrician, plumber, garbage man, and janitor are useless and irrelevant. People look at you funny if you don’t have a burning desire to be Donald Trump or a Wall Street bankster. The only way people don’t frown at you for not being a “suit” is if you make millions not being a “suit”. So it’s okay to be a plumber if you are rich. But if you make a enough money for you and your family being a plumber then you haven’t achieved. It’s nonsene as far as I’m concerned.
@Labakir and humble_one
I think what we`re experiencing before our eyes could be what i call crudely segregation 2.0, i mean how on earth do some folks appoint themselves elite? who made you elite? in reference to what and to who?what is scary is that folks within are more than happy to join the party
My issue with alot of brothas is that their lack of vision or refusal to not only dream big but have the guts to go after it. i mean if you`re good at baking the question should be where did you see yourself 5 yrs from now? still working for the same crappy people when you can actually open your own joint and put yourself on a path to financial independance? the same thing could be said about any other aspect of life, my point is at the end of the day sistas can be with who they want but if sh!t dont work please take responsibility. As a black man i get offended when i hear words like ”we dont do sh!t with our lives” or ”the sistas are more successful than us”, truth is ,a college degree cant make me fall in love with a woman..i mean i’ve looked at this issue from all angles , so maybe some of these chicks need to get a grip of the reality..thats all
My father is degreed, my mom isn’t and they’re celebrating 30 years together this summer. But, that’s them, lol.
I want a guy w/ a degree. Not ashamed. That’s what I want. Do I dismiss guys w/o degrees? No, but I’m not out looking for them. I’ll be a college professor before I’m 30 & I want a man with the same kind of career potential. Of course, degreeless men can have great career potential as well but I like the chances of a college grad.
Do what works for you!
What bothers me is how folks need to justify and rationalize their positions to make themselves feel better. If you have standards, damn what everybody else is doing, stick to those standards, and quit trynna convince
yourselfothers why your standpoint is the best option across the board.Conversely, (or should it be Additionally…maybe Furthermore?) if your standards are getting in the way of you finding a mate, accept your goose egg, and quit trynna point the finger at everyone else. Either adjust or adapt or step your lonely tail out the way so other folks can hook up!
…as you were
Whenever I read something like this it is HILARIOUS to me. I have yet to see this male “shortage” that women supposedly encounter. Seriously, I feel like the dudes in DC that I meet are way more PRESSED to meet women and settle down than the women are. I think this message is one that society tries to teach but the bottom line is from MY experience most attractive women with things going for them have a wealth of men to choose from just like their male counterparts.
I for one have NEVER had a problem finding several men nice looking good job having men to choose from.
Again, I hear my nice looking single male friends complain about not being able to find someone to settle down with wayy more than I hear my female friends talk about it.