Dating, Relationships, & Sex, Pop Culture, Race & Politics, Theory & Essay

Giiiiiiirl You Betta Quit College and Get Yo’ Man Boo!

WTF? Exactly.

WTF? Exactly.

Or something like that.

Yesterday, on a site I didn’t even realize that I’d heard of, the two superfly, debonair brothas of VSB were cited.

Let me take a step back first and address the first part of that sentence as to not seem like I’m big leaguing. A few years back in 2010, the term No Wedding No Womb (NWNW) hit the Internets with the force of an Aretha Franklin bra release. To be honest, I had no idea where it started, what it meant (though context clues helped eventually) or why anybody gave any f*cks about this concept. In fact, it wasn’t until yesterday that I found out that the site, Beyond Black & White, and namely its founder is the one who started the whole NWNW movement. I’m pretty sure Damon wrote about it. I’m pretty sure I ignored it wholesale. I’m gully like that. Point is, I’m oblivious to a lot of things that happen online amongst the reading ninja community. Half of the articles that get people into an uproar don’t cross my radar unless Damon writes about them or some woman I know brings them to my attention. I rarely, okay, I never read any of the sites reading ninjas read to figure out how reading ninjas feel about things reading ninjas should give any f*cks about.

Which brings us to yesterday. I have my Twitter set to send me a text message any time I get a mention. Randomly, I get a text message stating that somebody is talking about as long as women care about marriage people like @panamajackson (Twitter and Instagram, follow me now!) will have a job. I’m paraphrasing but its something like that. I go to check it out and its part of some pseudo convo happening amongst some women referencing us as that site that wrote “Girl, Don’t Get Raped” etc and how we wrote the book cited and how they gave us a full stop after that. Something along those lines. Well I checked the timeline and saw some women arguing about women being told they should sacrifice education for marriage or some such f*ckery. As a f*ckery savant and procurement expert, I had to delve. They linked to some article on some site I’d never heard of…Beyond Black & White.

The name of the article immediately caught my attention as it was supposed to. It read, “Black Women Are Spending Too Much Time and Effort Going to School, They Should Be Spending Time Trying to Get Married”. Dumb ass idea aside, I figured I should read this article. Okay. I have no f*cking clue what the point of this article was and it sure as sh*t wasn’t what the title suggested. But it’s possible I’m just not as smart as everybody else. I can live with this.

But lo and behold. halfway through the article I see a reference to our book, “Your Degrees Won’t Keep You Warm At Night: The Very Smart Brothas Guide To Dating, Mating, and Fighting Crime.”

One dating advice book written by two African-American males is titled “Your Degree’s Won’t Keep You Warm At Night.” In the case of black women, like the Miami, FL based attorney referenced above, their degree’s aren’t even helping them pay off their student debt or maintain a halfway-decent credit rating.

I’d like to send a thanks for the potential new purchases of our book due to this shout-out though in the context of the article and the site I’m pretty sure we got cursed out for being men presumably telling women what else to do with their lives.

Full disclosure, I don’t mind being cited. In fact, it usually kind of rocks. I’d just prefer being included in an article that made sense. I’m still trying to get the general point. The title suggests, quite simply, that women need to close the three ring binder and focus on getting that single Olympic ring. Except that’s such a ridiculous notion I’m not even sure how it got passed editing. Or at least not the way its written.

watermelonThat only makes sense such that every woman views marriage as an actual accomplishment, which perhaps in our educated ninja complex and society, perhaps there’s merit. The regular ninjas I know stay married up though. I know women who’ve been married multiple times. Shoot, a solid 80 percent of the women I went to high school with are married. The only ones who aren’t are also extremely party-centric and ain’t about that married life. I tend to think this marriage problem is a very “high falutin’ ninja” hub problem. You know, DC-ATL-NYC-LA. I could be selling the problem short. I’ll concede this. I have a friend who talks so much sh*t about “DC men” and their commitment issues she might need to start a support group.

But, yes, marriage as an accomplishment. I’m not sure how I feel about that. Secondary to that though is this idea that women have to sacrifice one for the other. Or the higher level of educational attainment causes a sacrifice of marriage points so to speak because of the accrual of debt. And since according to statisitcs Black women are going to college at a higher rate than any other group but graduating at almost a low rate as Black men (the lowest rate of graduation) then women are going to college, accruing debt but ending no better off, so why not just cut out the middle man and focus on trying to find a husband. Or something. Basically, Black women are eschewing marriage for college while hoping to find a husband but losing out in all facets. Which totally blows.

I’m sure there’s some merit in the notion. I just think it was presented in a way that makes no damn sense whatsoever. And I’m sure somebody here will be more than happy to explain exactly how if Black women were smart, they’d go to the gym instead of college (not my opinion, just saying I’m sure somebody will say this). But it also makes it seem like there’s some secret to marriage when the fact is – and clearly I’ve never been married – it seems that for most people I know who are married it seemed like a matter of timing and meeting somebody you loved enough at a time when you were ready to make the leap. And if that’s the case then you can’t just “try to get married”. You have no control over that anyway.

For the record, my sisters, get that degree. It won’t keep you warm at night (this is true) but it can keep your heat on. Trust me, I’ve got without heat – I had no degree at the time – and that sh*t sucked tremendously. Yes, we’ve all mostly accrued debt due to our educations and yes that sucks. And yes financing one’s education often screws your ability to be the superstar you dreamt of. This is a common struggle. I just don’t see how this article truly explained how women getting degrees ruins their chances to get married. I don’t see how the two ideas were related in a way that made sense. And that would be all well and good since I read LOTS of articles that make THE dumbest links ever. Hell, I’ve written stuff that made no sense myself. Difference is, 90 percent of the time I’m doing it on purpose.

It would be all well and good if I ain’t see my brand associated with it. That’s no bueno. Not on an article that is going to make the rounds because everybody thinks its shawt bus shawty. Though that’s not really true. I read some of the comments to try to understand the article and it seems that many people think its a great article. I’m rambling since I don’t agree. So while I don’t mind being cited for better or worse (see above) I’d still prefer to be cited in something that at least made sense.

I wrote this whole post to say #shotsfired.

Do you think it makes any sense? Forget that, do you think there’s anything to the idea that women should stop trying to get those degrees mayne and should just start focusing on getting marred (assuming all women want to get married since, well, that’s the definite leap made in the article). Let’s just pretend that all the assumptions in the article are true or something. Hold me.

PJ out.

-VSB P aka THE ARSONIST aka MR. 1400+ aka GIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIRL HE A 3

Damon Young

Panama Jackson is pretty fly for a light guy. He used to ship his frito to Tito in the District, but shipping prices increased so he moved there to save money. When he's not saving humanity with his words or making music with his mouth, you can find him at your mama's mama's house drinking her fine liquors. Most importantly, he believes the children are our future.

  • http://testorshia.blogspot.com Tes

    I was hoping that article was an ironic one the entire way through, and came out completely unsure…

    In any case, I think if a woman wants to pursue education or a career, she’d need to get her degree game on. If she wants to pursue a husband…sh*t, I dunno how you’d pursue that, as men marry when they want to marry so… O.O

    Marriage is a big deal to me, but not a big deal in the way that, I’m not holding my breath for it, but if it happens, that’d be dope as it’s a lifetime commitment to somebody**. It means a man that knows all my flaws and different levels of insanity love wants to spend a large chunk of his life with me as his partner. Dope.

    My question to the author of said article would be, why can’t I do both? Why can’t I actively pursue my goals separate from a dude and still be in a relationship with said dude? When dating or married your lives should converge at a lot of points, not mold into one life. Least that’s what I think, but I’m young so…

    *pulls up beanbag chair and waits*

    **Going under the assumption that vows of “death til we part” are taken seriously and/or divorce isn’t an option/factor.

    • http://www.youtube.com/user/pervertedalchemist1 Perverted Alchemist

      “My question to the author of said article would be, why can’t I do both? Why can’t I actively pursue my goals separate from a dude and still be in a relationship with said dude? When dating or married your lives should converge at a lot of points, not mold into one life. Least that’s what I think, but I’m young so…”

      You may be young, however these are very valid questions that should be asked. Sadly, I don’t think you may get the answers you want from her.

      • http://missrosen.wordpress.com esa

        some people believe that their experience is universal. as in “my story is your story”, which is the very essence of narcissism.

        from what i read, it appears that both the author and the website host had the same thing happen to them :: they got pregnant while in college by men who did not want to marry them. it seems No Wedding, No Womb came about very much after the fact.

        • http://www.youtube.com/user/pervertedalchemist1 Perverted Alchemist

          And it’s quite telling that the site’s creator is still reeling from that- years after the fact.

          • http://missrosen.wordpress.com esa

            narcissism is so heavy, few ever get a grip on it. it affects one’s perception of their place in the universe in the most detrimental way. anything that denies the narcissist’s perfected state is a wound that will never heal because there are no established means for coping with it.

            i had plenty of shudder moments while reading but i also feel compassion for people who are so deeply hurt, and using their platform to put this kind of energy into the universe.

            i’m also fascinated by the ways in which sickness manifests itself, particularly via the Word and its power to infect minds with its messages.

            • http://www.youtube.com/user/pervertedalchemist1 Perverted Alchemist

              My uncle once said this:

              “Everyone has an agenda and every agenda has a backstory. Once you learn the person’s backstory, then you’ll learn quickly about the root of their agenda”.

              In their case, this is true on so many levels.

              • http://missrosen.wordpress.com esa

                yes ~ motive always intrigues me.

                • Yoles

                  now you guys are making me want to click the links…

                  • Kema

                    Dont do it! Reconsider!

                  • camilleblu

                    don’t do it yoles!! resist the temptation!!

                  • http://www.youtube.com/user/pervertedalchemist1 Perverted Alchemist

                    No Yoles! Nooooo!!!!!

                  • http://missrosen.wordpress.com esa

                    if you enjoy the pleasure of pain ~*~

                  • Yoles

                    i resisted… thx vsb fam :D

              • h.h.h.

                very deep sir. wise words.

        • http://verysmartbrothas.com Panama Jackson

          now see I didn’t know that. my research wasn’t very extensive. lol

      • Sweet GA Brown

        • kema

          ..

          • http://commentarybyvalentina.wordpress.com/ Val

            .

            • http://commentarybyvalentina.wordpress.com/ Val

              half dot

              • http://commentarybyvalentina.wordpress.com/ Val

                quarter dot

                • http://commentarybyvalentina.wordpress.com/ Val

                  one-eighth dot

                  • http://commentarybyvalentina.wordpress.com/ Val

                    one-sixteenth dot

                    • http://www.youtube.com/user/pervertedalchemist1 Perverted Alchemist

                      Dot infinity!

                    • http://commentarybyvalentina.wordpress.com/ Val

                      Come on, PA, you’re supposed to go along. You are 1/32 dot

                    • http://www.youtube.com/user/pervertedalchemist1 Perverted Alchemist

                      Dammit…

                    • http://commentarybyvalentina.wordpress.com/ Val

                      *starts again*

                    • http://commentarybyvalentina.wordpress.com/ Val

                      1/2 dot

          • mena

            201dsfew523fs6dfe

            • http://www.youtube.com/user/pervertedalchemist1 Perverted Alchemist

              ??!!??!!

              • camilleblu

                (#&$(%)!#$K#198

                • http://www.youtube.com/user/pervertedalchemist1 Perverted Alchemist

                  : ???;

  • http://www.BlackLatinaFabulous.com Maris

    So from the gist of the tweets of the people that actually read the article (me not being one of them) the premise is that going back to school to get a non-(directly)career-related advanced degree past the age of 30 to eschew that pesky socializing thing is actually counter-productive, as marriage has greater long-term financial benefits than the (admittedly at that career stage) tiny salary bump that would come with the extra degree (considering the debt incurred). Correct?
    Coo.
    I mean, giant chasms in the theory notwithstanding (cause you lose the “benefits” in divorce, you don’t lose the “bump” with a degree) there is an argument to be made. BUT I’ve heard the same argument made towards extra degree vs continuing to gain experience in the workforce. You can’t compare a tangible, controllable thing like a degree with the completely un-quantifiable odds of getting it ‘right’ in a marriage. I mean, what if you married Bernie Madoff?

    • Todd

      I see where you’re getting at. If you’re getting that degree as a husband substitute, you’re hustling backwards just as much as Shaniqua in the hood hoping that a dude will stick around once she has his baby. It’s a jacked mindset, but it’s a definite reality.

      • http://stanoffewwords.wordpress.com Tristan

        Its like if you arent married at least have a career, if you dont have a career at least be a wife and mother….because apparently brothas wont let you have both

        • mena

          LOL. Not true and I sense your sarcasm.

          • mena

            .

            • mena

              .

              • mena

                ,./,

    • Wild Cougar

      Why all this unnecessary depression on my birthday?

      I shall institute a new law. No sadness on my Birthday.

      I’m 44 and fabulous, by the way.

      • http://verysmartbrothas.com Panama Jackson

        Happy birthday!!!! #geminiseason

        • IcePrincess

          HAPPY BIRFDAY DUB C!!

      • Keisha

        Happy Birthday WC!!! :-)

      • Malik

        Happy born day!

      • camilleblu

        HAPPY BERFDAY WC!!

      • Brother Mouzone

        My son’s birthday is ALSO today…Happy Birthday!

        • kema

          My son’s b-day is today too!!!

          Happy B-day WC!!!

          • http://commentarybyvalentina.wordpress.com/ Val

            Now there’s a double coincidence for ya.

          • Sahel

            Hold up,rewind that. Kema is a MILF

            • http://commentarybyvalentina.wordpress.com/ Val

              Oh my.

              • camilleblu

                lol..leave it to sahel…

              • Sahel

                In my defense i didnt know ok

                • http://commentarybyvalentina.wordpress.com/ Val

                  Ignorance is no excuse, sir.

                  • Sahel

                    I blame your illuminati type eye pic then lol

                    • http://commentarybyvalentina.wordpress.com/ Val

                      Lol.

            • Wild Cougar

              Kema is a cougar in training. She’s gonna be vicious when she gets seasoned.

              • Kema

                Awww! Thanks WC! Yes I’m a cheetah now.

            • Kema

              I got one going to H.S. this year! Wooo!

      • http://missrosen.wordpress.com esa

        happy birthday lovely lady ~*~

      • Rewind

        Happy Birthday lady.

        I guess a birthday cake shaped like a boxing glove is in order. What flavor do you like?

        • http://commentarybyvalentina.wordpress.com/ Val

          lol.

      • Sweet GA Brown

        Happy Birthday and many many more!!

      • Londa

        Happy Birthday WC!

      • http://commentarybyvalentina.wordpress.com/ Val

        HBD.

      • http://www.twitter.com/Bmorebmw Tentpole

        Happy Birthday WC

      • http://twitter.com/SoulaPowa SoulaPowa

        Happy b-day WC! Live it up!

      • http://stanoffewwords.wordpress.com Tristan

        44 spanks or nah….lol Happy Birthday #GeminiGang

      • Yoles

        *insert cute music notes here* Happy Birthday to You *insert cute music notes here* Happy Birthday to You *insert cute music notes here* Happy Birthday, Dear Wild Cougar Happy Birthday tooooooo You! *insert cute music notes here*

        enjoy your very special day!!

      • naturalista88

        Happy birthday.

      • au napptural

        Happy b-day girl! May it rain cubs and Moscato for you.

    • http://verysmartbrothas.com Panama Jackson

      that was quite the succint ass description of the entire fracas. good damn job.

      • http://www.BlackLatinaFabulous.com Maris

        **Takes bow**

  • keisha brown

    1st – i dont understand how people can AGREE with her article. most people that go to school accrue debt. and men have said (here and elsewhere) that they’d rather not end their school career and enter a marriage with debt. and how many dudes are really thinking marriage at that time when everyone is doing their youthful indiscretion thing???

    2nd – her citation made NO sense. it was pretty much used because of your book title. i doubt she’s read the book therefore not knowing the book isn’t on some steve harvey/chey b type advice steez

    3rd – black twitter is the best detective ever. turns out that she not only has a degree, but she had launched one of those e-fundraising campaigns to help her do her masters in france. WAIT WHAT???

    4th – i feel the article was just a mishmash of stats that are real, ignoring others for the sake of writing an article.

    fif – there might be some merit to her argument if this was 1950

    moral of the story: I would say I’m surprised Obsidian didn’t write it – but even HE writes a better thesis on the aint sh*tness of black women.

    fin.

    • http://www.youtube.com/user/pervertedalchemist1 Perverted Alchemist

      *shots, missiles and cannons fired*

    • http://stanoffewwords.wordpress.com Tristan

      *runs from these shots like 2 Chainz entourage*

    • Todd

      That third one though…LOL

      And Ironically, Obsidian HATES this particular website. Like you may have found your kumbaya moment. :)

    • Yoles

      selfish sidebar: can someone in the know that wants to do most of the work please tell/show/guide me into the ways to get a masters abroad paid for via the internet????? pretty please… i’ll be your very best friend *insert sweet, sweet smile with accompanying blush*

      • http://verysmartbrothas.com Panama Jackson

        man. i full stopped there too like…this happens?

      • http://www.terryodis.wix.comtodis MicTheMessenger

        I’m sayin doe, Yolie.

        See you on campus.

    • Rewind

      For anyone who assumes Canadians are peaceful, the shots Keisha just fired is easily compared to a bright sunny Wednesday on the Gaza Strip.

      You’ve been warned.

    • Wild Cougar

      What I’m confused about is, if Black women have more degrees than Black men, and education presumably leads to better wages, how does leaving school to get married to a Black man help you?

      • http://verysmartbrothas.com Panama Jackson

        lol. good question.

      • camilleblu

        i think they want you to leave school to marry a white man…that evidently makes all the difference..

        • http://missrosen.wordpress.com esa

          there was a part somewhere in it that went something to the effect of :: “my [white] husband would not have married me if i did not have a college degree.”

        • Rewind

          purrdy much…but some chicks can’t leave the Snickers bar alone.

      • http://www.twitter.com/Bmorebmw Tentpole

        It’s doesn’t but it makes Black men with low self esteem feel better. It right up there with smart women who date thugs thinking thay can reform them.

        • http://missrosen.worpress.com esa

          recidivists. le sighh

    • Londa

      June 11, 2013: The day the strategic bomber, henceforth christened Maverick, but known in these parts as Keisha, triggered WWIII.

      I’m fortifying my bomb shelter now. Anybody got any long-life Twinkies and cases of Fiji water? It’s about to get wild up in this camp.

    • Keisha Brown

      Loll. That wasn’t THAT bad people!! VSB sees much worse!!!

      • camilleblu

        +1

  • naturalista88

    According to a few of the comments on the article, it was supposed to be a satirical piece (‘_’ )

    • http://www.youtube.com/user/pervertedalchemist1 Perverted Alchemist

      They call THAT satire???

      • http://missrosen.wordpress.com esa

        in the comments, the author stated she did not write a satirical piece.

        • http://www.youtube.com/user/pervertedalchemist1 Perverted Alchemist

          Yeah, I saw that.

          I also saw a few familiar names back when I used to post at Clutch (Including one of which who was, uh, “departed” from this camp recently…).

          • Negro Libre

            Lol, Clutch wasn’t radical enough for them…too much talk about Kerry Washington and not enough about the White Guy playing the president.

        • http://verysmartbrothas.com Panama Jackson

          right. there was no satire involved. the title indicated it could have been, but the rest of the article had no satirical bone to it.

          • miss t-lee

            Exactly. I read the article yesterday, she was dead azz.

            • Sweet GA Brown

              • camilleblu

                ~

            • Sahel

              More redbones and yellowbones for us all lol

              • http://commentarybyvalentina.wordpress.com/ Val

                What’s the difference between a so-called “redbone and a “yellowbone”?

                • Sahel

                  Yelllowbones glow in the dark,you save on power bills

                  • http://commentarybyvalentina.wordpress.com/ Val

                    Please punch yourself in the neck, okay, now. Lol

                    • Sahel

                      Aha,Val. If i was a woman. You wouldnt stand a chance..and it would have started with a bottle of white wine.

                    • camilleblu

                      sahel talks more shyt than a lil’ bit..

                  • http://verysmartbrothas.com Panama Jackson

                    that kilt me.

  • http://www.youtube.com/user/pervertedalchemist1 Perverted Alchemist

    The only thing I have to say about the article is the following statement: Consider the source.

    What I mean by this is that if anyone knows about the website and the founders of said website, their whole agenda is questionable as it relates to the topics they discuss. If you know the premise behind their whole agenda, then what they say won’t make any more sense, but it will give you a clear idea on where they are coming from (And we all know where they are coming from, right?).

    I won’t go into length about this because this seem like it may be another “flame war” topic, but I’ll leave you with this:

    Have you ever heard of the phrases “sleight of hand” or “smoke and mirrors”? Well, that’s what’s going on here. Read between the lines of their article (or the stuff posted on the whole website) and you’ll know what I’m talking about.

    • http://missrosen.worpress.com esa

      good call.

      • http://www.youtube.com/user/pervertedalchemist1 Perverted Alchemist

        You saw it too, huh?

        • http://missrosen.wordpress.com esa

          the About page is heavy on so many levels ..

    • Negro Libre

      Yeh they all about the swirling over there.

      • http://www.youtube.com/user/pervertedalchemist1 Perverted Alchemist

        …And that’s not even the half of it.

        • http://commentarybyvalentina.wordpress.com/ Val

          Yeah, it’s not just swirling, they’re about hating Black men and worshiping White men. There is some serious psychosis going on over there.

          • http://www.youtube.com/user/pervertedalchemist1 Perverted Alchemist

            Did you see the video Christelyn Karazin had explaining the purpose of her website? Can you say “bullsh*t”?

            https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qVWQIMSTecM

            • http://commentarybyvalentina.wordpress.com/ Val

              You owe me 8 minutes, PA! Geesh, that woman was vapid. It was like someone adding 2 + 2 and getting 9.

              But, she’s far from being the only one. There are a slew of Black women running around the internets losing their collective minds over White men and hating Black men. It’s a sickness.

              • http://www.youtube.com/user/pervertedalchemist1 Perverted Alchemist

                *cues dramatic music for them*

                https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NGwwJEE7k48

                • http://commentarybyvalentina.wordpress.com/ Val

                  Oh, and, did you check out how she used her bi-‘racial’ kid as a prop at the end, PA? That was pretty tacky.

          • Brother Mouzone

            This has been going on for at least the last 20 years. Movies, tv, print images, etc..Some of it subliminal, some of it blatant…There’s a grand design out there to separate Black women from their men because of the tremedous power we have when we’re together and the added strength it gives to Black men when they have a good woman by their side….I mean, hey… a brotha could even be PRESIDENT!

            • http://commentarybyvalentina.wordpress.com/ Val

              I don’t know how long it’s been going on but they have certainly ramped it up in the last 3 or 4 years.

              • http://www.youtube.com/user/pervertedalchemist1 Perverted Alchemist

                She has four children- three bi-racial and one Black. She’s always putting camera time on her bi-racial children, but almost never did the same for her Black child.

                I often wonder if she’s cognizant of the messages she’s sending to her children. Not only her lone Black daughter, but also to her bi-racial sons and daughter as well. Her self hate runs very deep and I’ve seen it do numbers on an entire family.

                • http://www.youtube.com/user/pervertedalchemist1 Perverted Alchemist

                  How in the hell did this comment end up in the wrong place? SMH…

                  • Sahel

                    Blame AP,shes part of the matrix

                    • http://www.youtube.com/user/pervertedalchemist1 Perverted Alchemist

                      LMAO!!!

                • http://commentarybyvalentina.wordpress.com/ Val

                  Wow, I didn’t know she had a Black daughter and keeps her hidden. So sad for that kid. She’s going to need some serious therapy.

                  P.S. I guess the father of her Black child having left her is her reason to hate all Black men and worship all White men?

                  • http://www.youtube.com/user/pervertedalchemist1 Perverted Alchemist

                    …And that’s how she got to her website. Strange turn of events, isn’t it?

                    • http://commentarybyvalentina.wordpress.com/ Val

                      *shakes head in disgust*

    • Yoles

      i for one would love for you to expound….

      i admit i didn’t click/read the links & the only thing i know about nwnw is the words that make up the acronym

      so what is their agenda? where are they coming from? catch a sister up! pls & thx :D

      • http://www.youtube.com/user/pervertedalchemist1 Perverted Alchemist

        Here’s where I’m going with this Yoles:

        Their whole schtick at Beyond Black & White is to throw shade at any Black man that dares speak on anything having to do with love and relationships (which explains why Panama and Champ were in their crosshairs). They don’t have to read the book, it just the mere fact Champ and Panama said anything.

        Their whole agenda is to encourage Black women to get into “swirling”, if you will. The problem with their agenda is they can seem to speak about love between Black women and White men without throwing Black men as a whole under the bus. That’s a common thread in a lot of their posts- even if Black men are nowhere near the topic, they will find a way to bring them into it.

        You see, the website’s founder Christelyn Karazin is pretty much showing her hurt on that site. Not only her, but most of the writers and posters on there as well- all of them are coming from a place of hurt and/or rejection. I assume they feel the best way to deal with their hurt is to project it into the world and the end result is what you see.

        • http://www.youtube.com/user/pervertedalchemist1 Perverted Alchemist

          That should be “can’t seem”…

        • http://verysmartbrothas.com Panama Jackson

          Well according to the author who hit us up via Twitter, she’s actually a fan of VSB and always loved our book title and wanted to find a way to use it. She’s not read the book, but given how she used it, it’s almost unnecessary for her to have read it.

          • http://www.youtube.com/user/pervertedalchemist1 Perverted Alchemist

            That’s a hell of a way to reference a book, if you ask me…

            • http://missrosen.wordpress.com esa

              appropriation can be monsterous

          • Londa

            Even my 12 year old would consider this authors “gratitude” as irresponsible.

          • http://commentarybyvalentina.wordpress.com/ Val

            I don’t get why she would be a fan of VSB.

            • camilleblu

              i don’t either val…kinda doesn’t make sense given the bullshyt she is pimpin’..

              • http://commentarybyvalentina.wordpress.com/ Val

                Exactly.

    • Todd

      I’ve dealt wit them a few times. Any time I want a flashback of the “Mandingo Warriors” from my playing days, I go check for them. Yeesh…the White man’s ice is no colder, plus it won’t make up for the fact your baby daddy lett you with some kids. LOL

      • http://www.youtube.com/user/pervertedalchemist1 Perverted Alchemist

        Ouch…and damn…

      • Negro Libre

        hehe

    • Wild Cougar

      I mean, if we are being honest, we can boil this down to title hustling. Which is the reason the VSB book was used. You can’t complain about someone using your book to title hustle for page hits when you used a misleading title to hustle book sales. Don’t ack like you don’t know…….just saying…..

      • http://verysmartbrothas.com Panama Jackson

        run that back?

        • Wild Cougar

          Your Degrees Won’t Keep You Warm At Night? Has nothing to do with the contents of the book. It’s controversial. It makes people want to see what the book says. It exploits the “big dilemma” for black women. Tongue in cheek, I get it. I’m not hating, I’m a fan. But…….#comeonson

          title hustling.

          • http://verysmartbrothas.com Panama Jackson

            Hmm…I’m not sure I agree. if that’s the general theme given the audience we’re talking to, how is that title hustling.

            to be clear, we did name it that way on a lark, but it wasn’t really a total sham. the intended audience was educated people. presumably degreed to some extent.

            i take back my happy birthday. lol.

            • Wild Cougar

              Yeah, I know. Tongue in cheek and all that. You’re saying you didn’t intend to have a title that would make people curious and want to read the book, based on the history of this general topic? Even if the title did not really reflect the content. If you did, you shouldn’t complain if people assume things about the book based on the title.

            • Negro Libre

              I understand, but context dropping is quite common on the internet. I think it’s good you try to separate yourself from that site, but at the end of the day, the people who actually read that book, would actually know that you guys were clearly being misrepresented.

              • Wild Cougar

                That’s my point. Context dropping is a very effective marketing tactic. It’s a hustle. So is having a provocative title that doesn’t really reflect the content. I would do it. I’m just saying, don’t complain when someone eats your bait off the hook and decides not to be lured in to read the whole thing.

          • au napptural

            Agree with WC. When I first heard the title I thought this would happen. If you read the site, you get it. If you don’t you’ll either a.) hate the book immediately, b.) pick it up for the wrong reasons and then put it down, or c.) think it’s some Steve Harvey on steroids ish and mis-attribute it. You didn’t see that coming?

      • http://www.youtube.com/user/pervertedalchemist1 Perverted Alchemist

        Shots fired?

    • h.h.h.

      i didn’t click the link.

      bwe?

      • http://www.youtube.com/user/pervertedalchemist1 Perverted Alchemist

        Beyond Black & White. If you value your sanity, you will not click on that link.

        • h.h.h.

          nah, i didn’t click, from what i’ve gathered, it’s BWE. #NawImGood

          • http://commentarybyvalentina.wordpress.com/ Val

            Yes, BWE.

    • miss t-lee

      Yes, indeed.

  • http://www.iamyourpeople.com I Am Your People

    *testing* 1-2-1-2 *testing*

    • nillalatte

      I didn’t know there was going to be a test! But, I know this… I’m in lurker mode with TX until this comment mess is resolved. Peace!

      • mena

        Understandable.

      • http://stanoffewwords.wordpress.com Tristan

        my comments yesterday were gold Jerry gold but u aint eem know it

        • http://commentarybyvalentina.wordpress.com/ Val

          George costanza?

  • minxbrie

    *yawn*
    This sounds like another way to spin the moral panic surrounding black female sexuality – OMG they’re getting an education! They’re going back to school! But worse! They’re not getting married!!!!!

    I read the article. I’m bored.
    Next!

    • msdebbs

      +1

    • http://www.youtube.com/user/pervertedalchemist1 Perverted Alchemist

      LULZ!

    • Rewind

      We have a winner.

  • Jay

    I tend to think this marriage problem is a very “high falutin’ ninja” hub problem. You know, DC-ATL-NYC-LA.

    TRUTH. The world is different between small towns and more metropolitan areas. With black people that cultural distance is even greater. It can be like two separate planets. Its crazy that no one really addresses this.

    • Malik

      This is true as well. Near everyone I spoke with in high school that didn’t move out of state for college either got married (and pregnant) immediately after high school or some time during college or are waiting to get married after graduation.

    • IcePrincess

      Jay!!! I thought about you today. Didn’t you used to work at chow baby? My homegirl took me there for the first time today. Omggggg so good! Oh, & btw, we went after SCHOOL, & she is black, 30-something, AND married. Tell the author of that article to put THAT in her pipe & smoke it! Hmph!

      • Sweet GA Brown

        “to put THAT in her pipe & smoke it”

        Oh how I miss the south…

        • IP

          :-)

  • Malik

    I wouldn’t advise ANYONE to base their life on seeking co-dependency over becoming their own person (education in this question). I disagree with men not seeking marriage. Business/corporate/political minded men are definitely seeking marriage early. Or at least the intelligent ones sincere about their career and climbing that ladder. They know that there are certain social circles for career advancement that they won’t be able to get into unless they are not only married, but married to a woman who is about something in life and has her own references separate from him. For example, how major political figures do we know that are bachelors? Exactly.

    • Sahel

      Tell me about it,i dread going to end of year parties and am asked why am not married yet and i have to mumble that am too busy. I was quite bluntly told if i dont have a family how can i be expected to understand how to deal with employees with kids.

      • Kema

        I’ll go with you. :-) As a matter of fact I would be happy to help any bachelors that need a Christmas / holiday party woman. I’m such a giver

        • Sahel

          We hang condoms instead of mistletoe so unless your sure of boxing day breakfast i wont advise it

    • http://stanoffewwords.wordpress.com Tristan

      Thiseth.

    • Todd

      Word. The only one I can think of is Corey Booker, and just about everyone assumes he’s just in the closet. And that whole marriage to someone who is about something? Well, suffice to say I f*cked that one up…big time.

      If I do this marriage thing again, b1tch getting a polygraph. :)

      • http://stanoffewwords.wordpress.com Tristan

        but assumed gay goes for any high profile guy who isnt married or George Clooney, marriage is a staple, your family a brand.

        • http://stanoffewwords.wordpress.com Tristan

          (see Carter, Sean C)

        • Negro Libre

          yeh that rumor seems to be a rite of passage nowadays.

      • http://learninglover.com AfterMath

        Anthony Weiner and Harold Ford Jr. also come to mind and rumors were circulating about them for a while. I look and see that they’ve both recently married.

      • h.h.h.

        Sen. Lindsey Graham
        former Mayor Ed Koch (rip)

        off the top of my head.

        • http://commentarybyvalentina.wordpress.com/ Val

          Well Ed Koch was out. But, I so agree about Lindsey Graham. My gaydar goes crazy when I see him. And also Tom Delay.

          • h.h.h.

            as fas as i know, Koch wasn’t “out”, i don’t recall ever reading something of his that revealed that…so at best, i say ‘ambiguous’?

            • http://commentarybyvalentina.wordpress.com/ Val

              Okay, you might be right about Ed. I grew up in NY and always assumed he was gay. So, maybe I’m confusing my thinking him to be gay with him actually being out.

              • http://missrosen.worpress.com esa

                there was a campaign slogan Mario Cuomo’s camp put out back in the 70s when he was running for mayor. it went like this ::

                vote for Cuomo, not the homo

                his camp denied it but it made the rounds. didnt win him the election. it was post Stonewall. probably got Ed some votes.

            • h.h.h.

              also one president, James Buchanan, was a bachelor.

              there were rumors that he was gay, but at the same time, it’s sketchy, because the way masculinity was defined during the 1800s, the way that men commonly showed affection towards each other would not be common today…but at the same time… *shrugs* ambigious.

              in a unrelated aside, Buchanan is generally ranked by US Historians that specialize in Presidential rankings, as one of the worst Presidents, if not the worst (He’s the President before Lincoln, he gets the blame for letting the Union break apart) .

              as a second aside, if you’re going to use the fact that Buchanan was single as a indicator that his presidency was bad, keep in mind that the man who followed Lincoln, was also married, and was actually taught by his wife to read and write (Andrew Johnson) was the first to be impeached and was one vote away from getting kicked out the office. So it’s moreso the the Presidents between 1840-1870 weren’t exactly the greatest. outside of Lincoln.

              #IShouldBeAHistoryProf

      • Misty Knight

        People think Corey Booker is gay? I never even gave thought to his relationship status. Though political figures are usually subjected to that kind of scrutiny.

        • Misty Knight

          .

    • http://learninglover.com Afterath

      Not only that, but for a male if you’re single long enough you get a reputation as either a playboy or your sexuality is questioned.

    • http://obsidianraw.bravejournal.com Obsidian

      @Malik, et. al:

      We need to stop rationalizing this archaic notion that a Single (Black) Man is somehow “incomplete”; imagine if it were a (Black) Woman – it is unacceptable in these days and times to even think of such a thing. Condoleeza Rice was Provost of Stanford, National Security Advisor AND Sec’y of State and she was single while doing it. I reject the notion that because I am a Bachelor, that somehow disqualifies me from achieving my career goals and aims. It is out and out discrimination, and we (Black) Men need to call it as such and force the issue to the forefront of the Men’s Rights Agenda.

      I find it disgusting that people, and I include Black Women especially, openly questioning as to whether current Newark mayor Corey Booker is in the closet – last time I checked, it’s nobody’s darn business. He should be judged on his performance on the job, which last time I checked, didn’t require him or anyone else, to have a spouse to do.

      Job discrimination in this regard is rampant against Men, Black Men especially, from the Blue Collar to the White Collar, in the public and private sectors, and it needs to stop. Additionally, people, and this especially includes Women, need to stop needling Black Men about their (not) being married. Again, it has become unfashionable to even think about doing the same to Women; why then do we allow it being done to Men? Yet another Grand Example of Rank and Utter Hypocrisy when it comes to Gender Relations and socalled “Equality”; yet another example of how its perfectly OK for Women to live in the 21st Century, while demanding that Men be shackled to the 19th.

      Out-Freakin’-Rageous.

      O.

      • http://learninglover.com AfterMath

        “Job discrimination in this regard is rampant against Men, Black Men especially, from the Blue Collar to the White Collar, in the public and private sectors, and it needs to stop. Additionally, people, and this especially includes Women, need to stop needling Black Men about their (not) being married. Again, it has become unfashionable to even think about doing the same to Women; why then do we allow it being done to Men? Yet another Grand Example of Rank and Utter Hypocrisy when it comes to Gender Relations and socalled “Equality”; yet another example of how its perfectly OK for Women to live in the 21st Century, while demanding that Men be shackled to the 19th. ”

        Shackled is an interesting word to use. Why do you have to talk of the plight of (Black) men en light of (Black) women? Can’t they both be facing bad situations? If i had to compare the two, I’d much rather be a single Black male trying to make it in the work force than a woman (single or married). I mean, we’re talking about opportunities to advance in careers where men have and continue to dominate. I’m definitely not a fan of single men not being promoted, but I’m not going to put it on the level of equal pay for women or getting more women into tech fields. That doesn’t mean that its not an issue in itself, but when you make things into a comparison (you can’t be in pain cause I’m in more pain), it nullifies the struggle on one side.

        This is not a zero sum game. Both sides can lose or both sides can win.

        • http://commentarybyvalentina.wordpress.com/ Val

          Some people have agendas and refuse to see things that are counter to the narrative they’re addicted to.

          • http://obsidianraw.bravejournal.com Obsidian

            And some people are too cowardly to directly face those they wish to talk about; so instead they resort to passive-aggressive slights.

            I am not impressed…

            O.

          • http://obsidianraw.bravejournal.com Obsidian

            And some people are too cowardly to directly face those they wish to talk about; so instead they resort to passive-aggressive slights (while also foisting their agendas that aren’t even germane to the overall focus of the forum itself – talk about being tone deaf!) .

            I am not impressed…

            O.

        • http://obsidianraw.bravejournal.com Obsidian

          @After Math:
          “Shackled is an interesting word to use.”

          O: Indeed – because that’s exactly what it is…

          “Why do you have to talk of the plight of (Black) men en light of (Black) women?”

          O: Because neither exists in a vacuum independent of each other. Indeed, male and female coevolved; therefore, what happens to one, will have implications for the other. What one does, will have impacts, for better or for worse, on the other. That’s why.

          “Can’t they both be facing bad situations?”

          O: Of course. But the problem in our time is that only one side gets airtime to air out their grievances – Black Women. To date, NO ONE has done the same for Black Men.

          I am spearheading that effort.

          “If i had to compare the two, I’d much rather be a single Black male trying to make it in the work force than a woman (single or married). I mean, we’re talking about opportunities to advance in careers where men have and continue to dominate. I’m definitely not a fan of single men not being promoted, but I’m not going to put it on the level of equal pay for women or getting more women into tech fields. That doesn’t mean that its not an issue in itself, but when you make things into a comparison (you can’t be in pain cause I’m in more pain), it nullifies the struggle on one side.”

          O: And you are more than welcome to White Knight for the Sistahood; I, on the other hand, wish to demonstrate the rank hypocrisy that routinely rears its ugly head when discussions about gender equality and social justice comes up. I have seen Men die on the job, with only a paltry pittance of compensation going to their next of kin. I have seen Men toil for years in obscurity, despite their dedication to the job, due to direct job discrimination. I’ve seen Men constantly be questioned about their private lives (i.e., “is Corey Booker gay?”) when none of that has and should have nothing to do with the job. YES, I am saying that such issues are indeed on par with with the issues you are more than concerned with. By all means, do you; just don’t get in the way of me, doing me…

          “This is not a zero sum game. Both sides can lose or both sides can win.”

          O: Tell that to the Feminist Lobby and their Au Natural Sistas in the Attic, who do not see it that way in the least…

          O.

      • Malik

        Not my fault other 35+ year old men don’t trust other 35+ year old men who don’t care to get married. That’s business culture.

        • Kema

          Exactly! But I dont trust them either. Lmao!

          • http://obsidianraw.bravejournal.com Obsidian

            @Ms. Kema:
            “Exactly! But I dont trust them either. Lmao!”

            O: Oh, how Misandrist of you.

            Why?

            O.

        • http://obsidianraw.bravejournal.com Obsidian

          @Malik:
          “Not my fault other 35+ year old men don’t trust other 35+ year old men who don’t care to get married. That’s business culture.”

          O: No, Malik – you, ARE THE PROBLEM when you make statements like the one above. Just imagine if you said:

          “Not my fault Men don’t trust other Women who don’t care to get married. That’s business culture.”

          Or…

          Not my fault straight people don’t trust gay/lesbian people. That’s business culture.”

          Or…

          “Not my fault White people don’t trust Black people. That’s American culture.”

          Think about it…

          O.

          • Malik

            I’m not involved in the culture though. If I was I’d take the onus. No one in family is involved in that structure. Martial status shouldn’t override talent/ability. Addressing the”boys club” mentality is another matter that business culture resides in though.

            • http://obsidianraw.bravejournal.com Obsidian

              @Malik:
              “I’m not involved in the culture though. If I was I’d take the onus. No one in family is involved in that structure. Martial status shouldn’t override talent/ability. Addressing the”boys club” mentality is another matter that business culture resides in though.”

              O: Again, apply that same answer/rationale to the question of Rape; how do you think (Black) Women would respond? To YOU? Would they find that acceptable?

              Would you even fix your mouth to say such a thing in the first place?

              If your answer is “No”, then WHY do you think it is perfectly OK for such rank and out and out discriminatory practices with regard to Single (Black) Men to persist?

              Hmm?

              O.

      • http://mosnative.wordpress.com/ Mos_Native

        “We need to stop rationalizing this archaic notion that a Single (Black) Man is somehow “incomplete””

        Truth.

      • h.h.h.

        “We need to stop rationalizing this archaic notion that a Single (Black) Man is somehow “incomplete””

        agreed.

        • kema

          But you are… So go out there and find your other half. ;-)

          • h.h.h.

            naw i’m Superman lol

            *retreats to the Fortress of Solitude*

        • LSQ

          Well -> there is something deeper here. I mean, yes don’t judge people for choosing the single life (although I really should say unmarried, cause VERY FEW people are truly single)

          I think the natural suspicion in business (and other circles) of single folks goes to one of the roots of the human condition: It is better to run in a pack than to try to make it nomadically on your own.

          modern history has evolved the “pack” from the feudalistic lords and tribal leaders (except the middle east where it is still going strong) to the “2.5 kids, 2 parent, family, house, ‘burbs, brownstone, what-have-you”

          Stepping outside this new modern ‘norm’ – may seem strange to some, and odd -> like “why do you do that?”

          Not that I agree, just saying why this feeling occurs to some. To paraphrase my favorite story: this is the question of why the frog/tortoise chooses to give the scorpion a ride across the river. But I digress.

          • Rewind

            Even with that said…I don’t like having to pay for someone else’s insecurities. My sh*t is straight, stop worrying about mine and let me do the damn thing.

            The assumption that when someone is different, they are wrong is what always halts progression.

            • camilleblu

              “The assumption that when someone is different, they are wrong is what always halts progression.”

              i heart you rewind…

              • Rewind

                *fist pump and perculates*

          • http://obsidianraw.bravejournal.com Obsidian

            @LSQ:
            Your comments skirt the edge of something that I’ll just go on right ahead and put on blast:

            There is prejudice against Single Men because them being single, interferes with the mating strategies of other Men and of Women.

            Think about it…

            O.

            • a

              no

              • http://obsidianraw.bravejournal.com Obsidian

                Yes

                O.

          • http://missrosen.worpress.com esa

            ~ VERY FEW people are truly single

            i am ~*~

            knowing yourself is true wisdom / tao, chapter 33

      • amber

        . When I worked at a law school firms predominately preferred hiring and promoting married men because they knew that the man had something to work for…a family. Employers really liked it when employees purchased home because was a sign of stability. It’s not really solely a black thing employees with families are just a bit more predictable and controllable.

        • http://tripsixes.com Trip

          agree with all of this.

  • IcePrincess

    Soooooo…. What if she meets her future husband at school? What a stupid article (Jamila’s, not yours, P). Two minutes of my life I’ll never get back. #wacksauce

    • Yoles

      there is no multitasking when man meeting!!!!!!!!!!!!!! grrrrrrr
      i think i dunno

    • http://verysmartbrothas.com Panama Jackson

      It only took you 2 minutes to read her article?

      • h.h.h.

        she (IP) probably has a masters

      • IcePrincess

        I kno how to speed-read for comprehension. Blows ppl away at my school. I’ll be working on the computer, & they’ll be like, “how you kno the answer so fast? U ain’t een read the question first. You barely looked at it!” Lmaoooo