Frank Ocean is a great writer. This much has been evident since he re-emerged onto the scene as Frank Ocean (he was signed as an artist at Def Jam under his birth name Christopher Lonnie Breaux some years to up-and-coming producer Christopher “Tricky” Stewart of The-Dream fame), and dropped Nostalgia, Ultra. That album took him out of the Odd Future realm and placed him square into the consciousness of millions of people and new fans everywhere. Nostalgia is a great album and was intentioned to be his Def Jam debut. Def Jam dropped the ball.
Anyway, recently, Frank dropped via his tumblr a “Thank You” that he wrote from an airplane in December of 2011. In it, he explaned a tale about unrequited love; a love that couldn’t be…or at least not at the time of its birth. He spoke of a love that took time and agony and confusion and a love that required the help of his family and friends to see him through. He wrote a letter that anybody with a pulse and a past could relate to. It just so happened that this love of his was a man. Amazingly, he managed to write a letter that spoke to his sexuality (or at least bi-sexuality) and what most people probably took from the letter is his humanity. That is no easy feat. A Black man and artist managed to make being gay an afterthought. That is sheer brilliance in execution.
And I only wonder if it worked because he’s not Usher or Maxwell or somebody with a huge profile. For the most part, Frank Ocean’s star is rising. He was the clear shining star in Odd Future and finagled his “mixtape” into writing spots for Beyonce and credits and appearances on Kanye and Jay’s Watch The Throne. He’s a songwriter at his core but one with aspirations of mainstream solo star success. And the truth is, while I’m not a big fan (though “We All Try” has stayed in rotation in my iTunes since it dropped), I recognize the voice, the talent, and the rising star that he is.
So I admittedly found it odd that somebody with “so much to lose” would make such an admission and so publicly. There’s no mincing of his words and the manner in which he dropped the “news” leaves nothing to be misconstrued. Honestly, I’m happy for him. My guess is that like for many an individual with an alternative lifestyle (forgive me for using that term, seriously) the burden of pretending to be who you aren’t, especially in a field as filled with machismo as Black music had to be daunting. But he lept, landed, and is freer for it. I applaud that courage. Still, I wonder how accepting people will be of this admission. Maybe he had to. I read a review of his Channel Orange album and in it the writer noted that he had several songs where he directly mentioned a “him” where a “her” would normally go. So perhaps he released the liner notes (the “Thank You” is his liner nots for the album) as a means of blunting the unexpected when people listen to the album and start attempting to connect the dots. He did the dirty work for us all by speaking truth to the doubts and questions that would arise.
Back to the music industry for a second. Imagine if you found out that Teddy Pendergrass was gay. Or say, Bobby Brown, somebody who’s music is 100 percent informed by conquest. I realize that Frank Ocean is neither of those artists. His music isn’t driven by his virility or masculinity. People have long suspected Johnny Gill of being gay and his biggest songs are clear-cut man-on-woman love songs. But would you feel lied to if you found out definitively? I’m curious about that. Frank definitely has songs where he’s talking about falling for or sexing up some woman. And that is still very possible and maybe even likely. But it seems like a significant number of women take issue with bi-sexual men. As open as many of us swear to be, there are still certain taboos we are nowhere near comfortable with. And given that Frank’s largest audience will likely be women, I do wonder if his letter may cause some to lose interest in him.
We already know how homophobic so many of us men can be. Stupid as this is about to sound, my guess is that very few men want to listen to “the gay dude”. Of course, this could all be for naught. Maybe it doesn’t matter at all. And no, it shouldn’t. But when has what should happen ever stopped what will happen?
On the flipside, I can see him gaining a slew of new fans because of this as well. Though they may come from quarters we wouldn’t usually associate with Black music. Basically, Lady Gaga fans. By the way, I don’t really think who your fans are matters. But Frank’s largely been associated with the Black circuit because of his alliances. Maybe now he’ll find fans who are looking for more openness and freedom to be who they are. Which isn’t a bad thing. At all. There’s something empowering about somebody who can relate to your struggle (oddly enough, his struggle had nothing to do with orientation, it was with the frustration of love – like I said, he brilliantly handled this).
So I suppose Frank’s letter is high risk, high reward. Maybe. Even as I write this, I’m not sure I believe that he would really feel any true negative repercussions. It seems like most women, his intended audience, think nearly every singer is gay nowadays anyway, so a formal admission is just a formality and to be applauded for not playing with anybody’s emotions, I suppose.
And again, if you couldn’t relate to his letter on a personal level there’s a good chance you’ve died inside already.
And at the end of the day, good music is supposed to elicit emotion and take you somewhere. If that’s what happens, does it truly matter the orientation of its creator?
It shouldn’t.
But does it?
What do you think? Do you think his admission will have any affect on his career?
Talk to me. Petey.
-VSB P aka THE ARSONIST aka MR. NOT A FAN, BUT RESPECT THE MAN aka GIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIRL HE A 3
By the way, I wasn’t going to write a post today, but I figured that I should write about this.
ONE MORE DAY!!! For all those folks in the DMV, make sure you RSVP for FREE ENTRYÂ to REMINISCE happening this Saturday, July 7, 2012, at Liv Nightclub (corner of 11th and U Streets, NW) in DC tomorrow night! It’s the hottest 90s party in the city AND our DJs birthday so you know we’re going all in!!!! We’re also celebrating the one-year anniversary of Urban Cusp!! You never know who might stop through. Plus, there’s an open bar from 930-1030 and no dress code. Come party with VSB P and get your boogie on. We party hard! RSVP here—–>http://reminiscedc.eventbrite.com
Last but not least, go peep The Champ’s latest piece at Ebony.com, entitled, “An Obit for the Obitless”. Also, peep Panama’s latest post over at Guyspeak, “The Notebook and 5 Other Movies That Might End Your Marriage”.
More positive than negative. But it will definitely have an effect.
Interesting. I honestly think it will have a positive effect. The flood gates are open. I have not read of any backlash anywhere so my guess is…he good. Ive always loved his craft and voice (if angel dust had a sound, it would be frank’s voicce lol).
Well Frank Ocean hasn’t stated his orientation yet and I will not speculate on that.
Having a Black male that is open about, at the very least 1, relationship with another man is a big deal. Particularly for the Queer Black kids who have pretty much never had a mainstream Black figure for them or writing songs on relationships and love that they could most personally relate to at least on a pronoun front.
I don’t know if it’ll effect his career. I don’t think he WON’T get work because of this. I also don’t think any of the light-weight homophobic people that were already fans stop supporting him because he isn’t femme. I don’t know about his career though because I never really thought about how it was going to progress in the first place.
Good point. The fact that he hasn’t stated an orientation yet but we’re already labeling him as GAY speaks volumes. If he says that it was only once and he’s never ever ever ever had feelings for another man he will ALWAYS be labeled as homosexual. I’m curious about how this will affect his dating life as a star. I mean women are drawn to talent and fame but we all know how the “bisexual” double standard works. I’m curious to see how those dynamics play against one another.
hmmm I don’t think that Frank would have a problem getting the ladies. I was reading on other blogs were women thought that he was brave and that they still would “hit it”.
I don’t think the number of female fans will change, but the composition will change. The ladies looking for a swoon-worthy lover will be replaced by laid-back open-minded women. It won’t kill him, but I know his accountant thinks otherwise.
THANK YOU for stating what sooo many media outlets have chosen to overlook. so many of these articles are assigning labels to him that he did not. what i got from his letter was that he fell in love with a man. he told him, he cried, dude went upstairs to his girlfriend and he kept up an awkward friendship with him. he has not said he is now a champion for gay rights or gay music. he has not even said he is gay or bisexual. i swear we love labels and boxes.
Labels and boxes are easier. It alleviates our obligation to do all that hard thinking and analysis. But something you said did cross my mind, will Frank’s letter become the battleground for a proxy war between conservative and liberal groups?
Like you pointed out, dude was simply saying what he felt, not that he wanted to be the poster boy for the LGBT community and not that he wanted to be an object of attack or ridicule by others with an agenda. And yet I suspect both will happen.
Yeah, but come on Muze!! Yes he hasn’t “said it,” but are we really going to pretend like what he’s saying means something other than he likes men?
If it wasn’t anything more, why say anything about it in the first place??
I think what she’s saying is that sexuality can be complicated. HE may not even know if he’s gay, bi, or whatever yet, but WE’RE already assigning him labels.
“If it wasn’t anything more, why say anything about it in the first place??”
Why not? He wrote about love and heartbreak, something people do every day. It just so happens that his experience was with a man.
If it was Tyrone from across the street who came up to you and said 3 years ago he fell in love with a man, wouldn’t you call him gay?
Just to clarify, I acknowledge that at no point did Frank say “hey guys, I like peen in my mouth.” He probably doesn’t at all. He spoke about love, I get that.
But let’s be honest with ourselves. If you had a car mechanic, probably one of the best mechanics you’ve ever been to, and one day he tells you that he fell in love with Mike the carpenter 3 years ago, I’m sure the majority of us, if not all, right here on VSB would be like “damn, my mechanic is gay and been gay for the past three years.” There would be no argument about “well he only told me about love, nothing more.”
We label people. That’s what we do. Frank just happens to be famous and a good writer. So people give him a pass. If he’s gay, he’s gay. If not, he’s not. No one NEEDS to defend him. Yet we do have a tendency to give famous people the shrug and benefit of the doubt simply because they are famous (once they are talented of course): R.Kelly anyone? Not QUITE the same thing, but you get what I mean.
As a society, we are taught to label things in order to identify what they mean to us. But to pretend that we are above and beyond labels is silly. No one can stop themselves from doing it at this rate. We might be more open-minded about things as time goes on, but the default is always to label and categorize.
Basically.
That’s a tough one. If any man told me that he fell in love with another man, my gut reaction would be to say, yes, he’s gay. And like other women here have said, it would be hard for me to even consider having a relationship with someone who’s been in love with a man. That’s just the honest truth.
But let’s look at it from another perspective. Women have lesbian experiences, and few people bat an eye when they go on to later have relationships with men. Women have the luxury of exploring their sexuality without judgement, while men, especially black men do not. Why is that? Like I said, sexuality is complicated and men should have the freedom to do this without being placed into a box.
“why is that?”
Aly, for me it has everything to do with a man being entered by another man. I for the life of me, right now, can’t believe that men can be bi and those women that claim that they are, but have never had a relationship with a woman, are simply sexually experimenting bc they think it’s cute. Is it a closed minded view? Possibly. But it is my view none the less.
My friends and I were talking about this just two days ago. One of my closest friends in the entire world says that he is bisexual. He and I had a very candid discussion regarding this and he said to me “I know you don’t believe in bisexuality.” I told him that he was correct but really what do I know. Just bc I have never had feelings for both sexes doesn’t mean that it can’t happen for someone else. I definitely recognize this point of view and recognize the flaw in my own logic.
Bisexuality is just extremely hard for me to wrap my brain around.
As someone who IS bi, I can tell you fore SURE that its possible. I’ve beem in realationships with both men and women. I prefer to date women, sleep with women, etc, but I am still attracted to men. I’m 35; its taken me 10 years to get to the point where I’m secure enough in myself to be able to say that, yes, I do fantasize about and am attracted to men, not just women (the gay communitt can be just as bad anout forcing folks to check a box as straight peeps can).
I have heard this all before and as I said, I know that my reasoning is flawed somewhat but it’s still my point of view. Whether you are straight, bi, gay, or transgendered, wether I agree or not is a mute point. I give respect and would never tell someone else how they should feel. My friend above respected the fact that I hold these views, was able to recognize that I really don’t know since I have only been attracted to men, and we kept it moving.
That’s cool, no love lost! Wasn’t tryna force you to “get it”, just co-signing on your friends perspective in dialogue.
I didn’t finish my thought before (I was typing on my cell, and it just didn’t work out). What I wanted to say, and maybe it’s a reply better suited to the more general replies, is that no matter what Frank is, or thinks he is or isn’t, isn’t really for any of us to be debating. I use the term “bi” only because I’ve learned that most people just can’t wrap their heads around the idea of NOT putting people into boxes and just letting them be who they are, and do what they do. This man hasn’t said anything other than that he fell in love with another man. He didn’t say he was gay, or bi, or pan, or anything, but here we are assigning labels, and with the labels we are assigning come the preconceived characteristics of, and reactions to, that “group” of people.
that’s exactly what i’m saying.
women fall in love with women all the time and are not identified as gay.
just saying. i think he wrote it in that way for a reason. like a guy friend of mine said. “if i say i liked oranges one year, doesn’t mean i don’t like strawberries. just means i liked oranges.” lol.
all i would like is for people not to place loads/labels/etc on people that they have not appropriated to themselves. when he says it, fine. but i don’t think it’s right to over analyze a letter that was really just explaining why he had “he” in some of the songs.
“I think what she’s saying is that sexuality can be complicated.”
Like a mug. If folks think sexuality stops at “straight, gay, bisexual” then well um… wake up wake up wake up. Spike.
There will still be a backlash but as it was stated, his career is on the rise. We are of a different era where we kind of see things happen before they do happen, and it doesn’t hit us as hard. Not the same way it would if he was already 5 years into his career as a heavy weight in the music game. And I know some rappers will give him some flack about it, but I think he’ll be ok in the end.
I think you made a good point that there aren’t a lot of mainstream songs that speak to lgbtq… relationships. So I’m actually going to buy his album for that very reason. Lol. (And also, I’m a fan anyways. Swim Good x 100) But love is extremely diverse and complicated and unfortunately most commercially successful music does not even begin to represent the diversity of love and attraction.
In addition, whether his music is trash or not (its not) it really was a perfectly executed public ‘coming out’ (assuming he came out). The letter was expertly written as PJ stated. The pronouns were merely an afterthought. Bravo Frank!
Malik that’s my favorite avatar of you. It shows your beautiful features, skin and hair.
Back on topic: Frank Ocean rocks for being this ballsy. I think this will have a positive effect because its seems Black America is becoming more accepting or resigned to the fact that some men are homosexual.
I actually remember a time when Black America openly expressed homophobia.
I’m never surprised anymore when someone comes out. Its not as shocking anymore!
And off topic: People were shocked that Anderson Cooper recently came out. But I thought he outed himself a few years ago?!
he did. i’m confused as to why people are surprised too. lol
Didn’t er’body already know doe? Anderson Cooper is still a silver fox no matter what <3
AC is one of THE only few white men that moves my heart! It breaks my heart that I stand no chance with him
it’s actually depressing. and i loooooooooove me some frank ocean. Now i have no one to love
I would say back to Will Smith but… you know the rest
Someone said it’s not hard to tell you’re gay when your best friend is Kathy Griffin when describing AC’s coming out party. You can’t not laugh at that.
Ya, I thought he came out a while ago…
My man and his friends were sitting on the porch discussing music one day. One of his friends then said Bruno Mars is gay. Not that, that would surprise me anyway. My man and his friends then decided that if he “came out” then they wouldn’t listen to him. I was floored by how closed minded he was about it. Especially, because my best friend is my gay male cousin.
when was he “in” the closet? He just didn’t push it into everyone’s face. Unless you see pictures of someone and whomever they are in a relationship with it doesn’t matter—>think MSNBCs Johnathan Capehart or Wanda Sykes-still smart, still funny…
Nobody had a problem with Luther singing “straight” love songs. Women fawn over Prince and he is extremely non-traditional. I think Frank’s statement is a positive step toward showing that humans are just that – human, and that we need to stop being so worried about what or who someone else is doing.
We still don’t know FOR SURE whether Luther was gay or not… of course 99% of black people think that he was but we didn’t know. Frank left no doubt. Plus Luther was an established artist by the time everybody suspected for real for real that he was gay. And Prince isn’t gay. Thats blasphemy. Prince’s music, aside from the falsetto and the dandy sense of style is VERY MASCULINE and is at least in part, driven by conquest.
Word. Just because Prince wears heels and hair stays laid doesn’t mean he ever stopped smanging 13 different women every week of the year. I ain’t sayin there isn’t any love songs in Prince’s catalog, but Prince talks about F#%cking far more than making love.
I remember someone (I SO want to give em credit for this genius but I forgot) perfectly summed up the entity that is Prince. They were like, “Prince is that dude who can put it on your girl, then wear her shoes afterward.”
Yasssss!
Prince in my opinion is like a anomaly. For the life of me I can’t figure out why he gets so many women.
“What was wild was the guy that look the most like a b*tch was getting all the women- Charlie Murphy
http://youtu.be/OjLG92qXfSg
Oh you ain’t know? He’s a bawse- he can do that!!!
He hit off just about every woman in the Paisley Park collective- except for Wendy & Lisa…for obvious reasons…
Things that make you go hmmm. Would I do Prince? Of course. And I’m sure it would be the wildest ride of my life, just in pure strangeness. Kinda like doing a sexy transgender dude/ette who was an amazing famous artist. No, exactly that, lol. But could another femme man get it? Depends. How much alcohol is involved? Am I out of town? I put that in the category of freak that sparks curiosity, but it doesn’t really get me going. Usually.
“For the life of me I can’t figure out why he gets so many women.”
Because he rich, talented, famous, and has a super deep voice.
That’s a less significant part of it. You know how there are those women who have a sex appeal that other women don’t understand? I think there was a post about it…she may not fit the general definition of “sexy” but men can sense the freak in her. I think that’s what it is with Prince. You just KNOW it would be off the chains.
HA. um, am i the only woman who is in no way attracted to Prince? ew. he’s little and wears buttcheek-less pants. not my cup of tea. i like his music but MJ had way more sexy than Prince to me… during his less ghostly years.
No you aren’t. I wrote on here a while back that I didn’t understand the hype around him in the first place. Pretty men (whether in their style or physical features) do nothing for me.
LOL, you definitely are not the only one. He does nothing for me in that way.
I think you’ve nailed it. And I’ve watched happen literally all my life, and I still don’t understand. As effeminate and non-traditional as he comes off, if you listen to his lyrics, he’s a very old-school dude. I’m not sure how he pulls it off. Maybe it’s all that Minnesota cold. LOL
I recall one of y’all saying Prince was so feminine, that he was masculine again. He’s so far East, he started going West.
Ha!
Dude….”Adore”. The most beautiful love song of them all.
“We still don’t know FOR SURE whether Luther was gay or not… of course 99% of black people think that he was but we didn’t know.”
I remember reading after Luther Vandross’ death that some of his closest friends had stated that he was indeed gay- with Fonzi Thornton and Lisa Fischer (his former background singers) being the most outspoken of the bunch.
+1, Prince’s “issue” is his height.
” A Black man and artist managed to make being gay an afterthought. That is sheer brilliance in execution.”
Ain’t it?!
“And at the end of the day, good music is supposed to elicit emotion and take you somewhere. If that’s what happens, does it truly matter the orientation of its creator?”
We talked about this but I’ll say it again here. A love song is a love song is a love song. When we listen to them, we are rarely thinking of what it means to the artist singing it, but more so thinking of how it relates to US personally.
Singers write songs directly to people all the time. INTIMATE songs that are just between the singer and that person. A person, … that is not me. Or you. Does that somehow invalidate the song’s overall message? Nope. Because again, the song ignites something in our lives.
So it’s no different here. Love is not limited to sexual orientation. We know this. In Franks beautifully written letter he was able to encapsulate the gripping feelings of unrequited love in the most perfect manner.
Now, I’m not naive to think that there are people who will boycott him because of this. I was witness to a bunch of people saying hurtful things to him on Twitter, unfortunately but it is only a cyber illustration of the real world. There ARE people who think his sexual orientation trumps the music’s message.
But, I’d rather focus on the people who were positively affected by his letter. His letter opened so many hearts, gay, straight or otherwise and sweet Jesus… that’s a victory to me.
ETA: Typo, that should say… “Now, I’m not naive to think that there AREN’T people who will boycott him because of this.”
“A love song is a love song is a love song. When we listen to them, we are rarely thinking of what it means to the artist singing it, but more so thinking of how it relates to US personally.”
Pretty much. When I listen to ‘Nautre Feels’ I don’t care who or what he was talking about but who I want to do. Although sometimes I pretend Robin Thicke wrote ‘When I get You Alone’ about me.
“Although sometimes I pretend Robin Thicke wrote ‘When I get You Alone’ about me.”
Stalker alert, LMAO!!!
You know… I think I agree with you. I liked Rashaan Patterson’s first album and I haven’t stopped liking it simply because he came out. The music is the music, and perhaps that’s how it should be.
Ok let me qualify that last statement. I realize there are lot’s of different ways for people to enjoy any form of art. And I realize everyone doesn’t necessarily have to appreciate music the way I do. If you feel like you connect to the singer by listening to the music, maybe it would cause you to change. I don’t. I connect with the art – primarily the music and instrumentation. I don’t even listen to the words in most songs so I would be somewhat indifferent to anything personal about the artist that somehow made it’s way into the song. However I know that’s not how everyone listens to music so, for ME the music is about the music.
When it comes to songwriting:
Rahsaan Patterson>>>>>Frank Ocean
Exhibit A: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zJzMlOXwOto
I was about to change my gravatar, but then I got lazy.
Okay, see I don’t know what it is going to do for his career. There are MANY a ninja so homophobic that they would not buy Frank Ocean’s album because he fux with dudes. But then again, maybe those people weren’t the people who listen to his music anyway.
I truly truly TRULY respect this. There are men in the industry now living in secret. There are people who are going to hear this news, and it’s going to give the courage to move forward in their life.
I’ll be purchasing.
Speaking on the homophobic crowd, I would “possibly” not has as much of a problem with them but there is so much hypocrisy. They hate admissions of “gayness” but run to wear the latest designs by openly gay designers and celebrate prison culture (no fleece johnson). Cee-lo is now imitating liberace. Also, despite having access to thousands of women, they insist on sleeping with the same women sometimes in immediate succession.
“Also, despite having access to thousands of women, they insist on sleeping with the same women sometimes in immediate succession.”
Am I the only one who fails to see the connection between this statement and everything else that you’re talking about?
And Kandi, you’re very correct about the obvious hypocrisy in buying clothing from openly g@y designers, taking fashion cues from prison culture, and Cee-Lo dressing like Liberace, but that last statement ran counter to everything else it seemed.
It’s not “gay” per say but it is a more acceptable way for men that are “fond” of one another to have a shared sexual experience when they would not or are not ready to take it to the next level.
Gotcha. I misunderstood what you were saying. I thought you meant that each one of them would have a respective group of women (groupie cohorts) and that they would sleep only with that group of women in succession (one woman after another and so forth and so on), not that the men would follow one another and sleep with the same few women.
#caseofthefridays
Yep its cool wit me, i dont care if u gay, straight, black, white, or polkadot. If your songs are good, im a fan. Panama, you have it half right. I dont think women have a problem with bi men, we have a huge problem with DOWN LOW bi men. Theres a big difference. As long as you out in the open about your shit, i respect that. Still wouldnt date you tho. Lol. So yea but i definately dig frank oceans decision. It was brave.
Everyone is being politically correct at the moment and congratulating Frank on being open about his sexuality. But that’s going to wear off soon. Before you know it people are going to be saying a bunch of craziness about him. And the only reason most people aren’t being typically homophobic is because he didn’t leave it to anyone to speculate as most Black celebrities who are LGBT do. So he just caught everyone off guard. Things will unfortunately change though, IMO.
I agree 100%
I don’t know if you are on the twitter but someone with a fake Frank Ocean account has been retweeting all the negativity the account has gotten. Looking at some of those tweets I honestly can’t imagine what his real account has recieved thesse past 2 days.
Yeah, the ish being said on there is pure evil. Don’t wish seeing the words spewed to him on anyone, but best believe the bigots are speaking their peace.
That doesn’t surprise me. The flood gates will open and the name calling will begin, if it hasn’t already began. There is just too much homophobia and small-mindedness for him to not get a lot of hate thrown at him.
Would you prefer if his haters just kept quiet and didn’t say anything, while all his supporters yell and scream joyous praise for such a courageous act?
I’ve always believed that out of great conflict comes progress, but yet in a society where people claim to be humanists, and great lovers of mankind, it’s ironic how quickly that love is quick to dissipate once an antagonists comes along talking about his’/her’s counter-opinion. It’s not new that people do not like the act of homosexuality; it is a well documented fact that many people worldwide view it as a complete and utter sin, punishable by death. Are those people to be quiet, because Frank Ocean wrote a heart felt letter about his love and compassion towards another man?
I’m glad that people will come out against Frank Ocean, perhaps more so than I am at the people who will come out in support for him. Because the people who support him will not bring us towards any further progress than where we were previously. You’re not going to defeat the irrational by labeling them as haters or homophobic, the only weapon to defeat them is reason. To be honest, people who support Frank Ocean should be happy that his haters are more than willing to come out and yell, scream and hate, because if they simply kept silent, and showed no interest whatsoever, his effort would ultimately be in vain.
Shame and guilt only buries hatred, it never eliminates it or conquers it. Much of the LBGT community and organizations like GLAAD have appealed towards the guilting and shaming side rather than the reason and logic side. When Frank Ocean wrote his piece, he appealed to people’s ability to reason about love and rejection, and that’s why so many supporters feel like what he did was so special, which is why we’re here talking about him, nobody gave a f&*k when Ricky Martin came out the closet! If the supporters of homosexuals and gay rights should learn anything from Frank, they should learn that the best way to conquer hatred is when one appeals to what makes all of us human, which is our ability to think which persuades people to open their minds. It is not through censoring, marginalizing opinion or using collective power to get people fired, that we reach consensus, it is through knowledge and understanding…plain and simple.
Moderation
Yeah, me too
Hey, free the people. Let’s see what they have to offer.
i appreciate your comment – but disagree.
That’s not good enough. What’s your reason for disagreeing?
lol. sorry about that. had to run out and didn’t want to start and not finish.
detractors are always a part of any discussion/argument as much as supporters are. i don’t think supporters are saying you can’t speak any more than the detractors are saying you shouldn’t speak.
i can only speak of my immediate social networks, but based on the conversations i’ve had – most of the detractors are telling me my opinion is wrong. i’ve yet to say to anyone that theirs is – just merely pointing out the hypocritical/inconsistent nature of it.
i also disagree that detractors will bring about change. especially since MOST of the comments about homosexuality is based on a book, that they have not read or studied, that was re-written by man many years ago and many times over. it’s very rare for me to read of someone who has negative things to say about homosexuality because they were treated poorly. it’s based on religion – an institution clearly NOT about any progress or change what-so-ever.
change comes about in many ways – and i keep thinking of the young man (especially black one) who may have thought all hope is lost and ready/willing/able to take his own life – but may NOT do so now because of the courage FO showed (whether to sell records or not, only FO knows).
Its not always based on religion. People jump to that conclusion and have a ready made answer and then quit listening. The other ready made answer is “you’re a hypocrite” which is a way of silencing the person and dismissing what they have to say. Half the time when people are saying they disagree/don’t like homosexuality, the Bible is not the main reason, it is just ONE reason that happens to be written down. People never get the chance to articulate the others because once the name calling, Christian bashing begins, they just quit.
And that’s where people get the idea that anything anti gay is based on religion. They conveniently forget natural feelings and aversions we have and develop based on the gender roles we were born with. Yeah, those. Remember those? They still exist, they are strong and they are valid.
well WC – based on the fact that people feel MORE than free to state their opinions at any cost, (battybwoy haffi dead!) i’ve YET to see ANY person spew anything than biblical scriptures as the ENTIRE basis of their argument.
where are these ‘other’ factors? if some dude said to me: i was bullied by a group of gay boys, i was inappropriately touched or hit on – that would make perfect sense to me why they might have problems with it. if they tried to correlate sexual abuse to homosexuality (which many try to do) – that would make some sense to me. using the bible is never going to win an argument with me. (or most others).
especially when it’s the same book that says this:
https://fbcdn-sphotos-a.akamaihd.net/hphotos-ak-ash4/406029_415562228482478_87570871_n.jpg
AND there are a plentiful amount of sins being committed by those same people EVERYDAY. some of them WORSE than falling in love with a man. hell – i fell in love with a man who broke me/my heart in the worst way. but it’s fine because we’re both heterosexual? nah son. dat nuh mek it.
We are so —><—
Just gave her a reason and she ignored it and jumped back to the anti Christian ranting. This is why….smdh…..
So yes those people are irrational and yeh those people believe in a book that preaches hate towards gay people, do they not have a right to belive that? The fact of the matter is that in a free society, people are free to do as they please as long as they respect the rights of others. And people do have the right not to be physically assaulted or abused, however, people do not have the right not to be hated, and not to be viewed as evil.
If people who advocate for gays, if they’re not willing to have reasonable and rational debates with the people who they disagree with, then they should focus on things that make more sense, getting the government to properly protect their rights, and leave the people who dislike them alone.
I see where you’re coming from. Sunshine is the best disinfectant, and having these haters out in the open is a great and good thing. My question is how many of these haters are open to reason. Some are willing to listen from whatever perspective they come from. The thing is that so many people use homophobia as a way of projecting their own insecurities onto gay people and hoping that by getting rid of them, they can solve their fears.
I’m not sure how to tell those who are open to reason and those who are not. I do hope the ones that aren’t into reason aren’t also into lynching and property crimes.
Which is actually fine, believe it or not.
There’s nothing wrong with hating gay people or disliking them, shoot some people dislike me for existing, as long as you respect their individual rights to liberty and the pursuit of happiness, then you can ask for nothing more. The only way you can control what people feel about you is through censorship, and regardless, of how many gay activists or feminists, like to switch words around, and evade the facts of the matter, if you’re advocating that people should have no fear of you, that they shouldn’t hate you, that they shouldn’t use words because they offend you (Yes, this applies to black people who say white people shouldn’t use the N-Word) etc, you’re advocating censorship. And most rational and reasonable people are not going to side on any group that supports censorship, especially if it is aimed towards them, because in the long term no one benefits from it.
Now, on the other hand, rights is something most people believe in. The vast majority of people I know who don’t like gay people, still believe they should have civil unions, have marriage benefits, serve in the army, and that they shouldn’t be fired for the fact that they’re gay. Most people are down for rights, however, what hurts a lot of gay advocacy groups is they’re trying to tell people how they’re supposed to FEEL in addition to their pursuit of rights, and just like they did with Tracy Morgan, they try to ostracize people who express themselves in ways that they don’t agree with, and it makes people like myself, not respect them, because you can tell that they’re not looking for just rights, but they’re also looking for POWER. They can go ahead and get power if that’s what they want, but I’m not the one who is going to hand it over to them.
“you can tell that they’re not looking for just rights, but they’re also looking for POWER.”
I’m not seeing how this is a problem. You need power to make a change, and things can change if people begin to see things differently. The goal of gay rights advocates is not censorship; it’s trying to change people’s thinking about homosexuality. That’s the only way you’re going to get people, on a large scale, to respect their rights. If the majority of people still felt the same way about black folks as they did 300 years ago, you would be somewhere picking cotton for free right now. Maybe the arguments could use a little more appeals to logic, but let’s not act like the average American voter is logical anyway…feelings drive most of the public’s political views (this has been shown empirically). To ignore or discount feelings would be completely ineffective.
I don’t like censorship either, but the only way you’re going to get the public to begin to change is if you make some things unacceptable. Words aren’t just words; they reflect and perpetuate a mindset. That mindset is what needs to be targeted in order for any real change to take place.
Power doesn’t work that way. If you take power away from others you’re always going to have to worry about blowback and other unintended consequences. People can generate power by themselves, they don’t need to take it from other people, do you think by stopping people from bashing gays on TV that you’re going to prevent people from bashing gays in real life? I mean just because white people can’t say N**ga on TV, does that prevent them from saying it in real life.
Censorship is all about control, and people who feel like they can control you are never going to be willing to let go of control no matter how good they’re doing. People who live for power over others, always end up being corrupt and abusive when it’s all said and done.
We’re going to have to agree to disagree. I don’t see gay people as this power-hungry, controlling entity that is trying to take over the country. I think they’re regular people who want the freedom to be themselves (without hostility and violence) and the same rights as everyone else. Nothing to be wary about.
“do you think by stopping people from bashing gays on TV that you’re going to prevent people from bashing gays in real life?”
It wouldn’t prevent everyone obviously, but if we’re “bashing gays” on TV, we’re sending the message that it is socially acceptable to do so. That means more people would end up thinking it’s okay to bash and dehumanize them. Think about kids and how they’re socialized…don’t underestimate how instrumental the media is in shaping our culture.
First thing, I didn’t accuse gay people, I accused gay advocacy groups or pressure groups as the people who are pursuing power. Gay people simply support them.
As for the media influence on our kids, it’s way over stated and is a ploy usually used by people who feel superior to others. If we all are exposed to the media, and we’re all controlled by it, isn’t it rational that we would all be the same, including the people who claim that the media is very powerful and influences culture. You might as well say the internet as a wide influence on our culture, and the government might as well navigate and control all websites on the internet, since kids could easily be brain damaged by all the bad things that are on the web.
Finally, in terms of freedom, there is no freedom that protects you from hostility or hatred. You can be protected from violence, in terms of a justice system, but you can not legislate emotions, unless of course you live under a dictatorship.
“If we all are exposed to the media, and we’re all controlled by it, isn’t it rational that we would all be the same, including the people who claim that the media is very powerful and influences culture.”
No, that’s not rational at all. Every single person does not react to stimuli in the same way, and I never said we are all “controlled” by the media, just that our society and the things we care (or don’t care) about are heavily influenced by it. It can and does affect the way many people feel about things. Advertising, anyone?
But like I said, we’ll agree to disagree. On pretty much everything you have said. To me, your collective comments look like you’re just trying to intellectualize homophobia. Just being frank; disregard it, call me crazy, do with it what you will. But these same arguments you’re making have been used by countless conservatives to object to progress in other areas as well…
I’m not intellectualizing anything. I just think it is stupid and ultimately futile to try to change people by making them silent, through shaming, guitling and bullying rather than making rational arguments and debating them head on, to prove your point.
As I’ve said several times, the road to hell is paved with good intentions, and I see a lot of these gay advocacy groups and their supporters rallying for things, based off myopic ideas that they wish for eveyone to accept without any form of criticism, regardless of how rational or irrational it might be. I agree with their ends, but I completely disagree with their means.
White people already have power.
Right, so its bullying, using the cover of victimhood/civil rights
Yes. Which is why ignore gay people who go on and on about gay marriage. And why I think the “it gets better” campaign is terrible. However, I can’t ignore legitimate civil and human rights issues because white people that may intersect within them are mostly terrible self-centered human beings.
You’re talking about a completely different social identity here. Enjoying racial privilege does not make a person immune from experiencing oppression in other areas.
And you would think the mainstream LGBT rights movement would be aware of intersectionality. But they’re not and they’re only considered about how the white members are doing. Which is why they can go go suck a rotten egg.
Damn. Well I can’t really speak on that, you know something I don’t. That’s really disappointing if it’s true.
“And you would think the mainstream LGBT rights movement would be aware of intersectionality. But they’re not and they’re only considered about how the white members are doing. Which is why they can go go suck a rotten egg.”
I agree, Malik. I see evidence of this all the time.
Are you on FB? Do you follow Hot 97′s Fan Page? I’ll put it to you like this. In response to the radio station’s annoucement of the news, people started putting links to Buju Banton songs. And no, not the most famous one.
Yes, homophobia is real in the Black community, no doubt.
*Before Frank Ocean came out.*
Me: “Man, this Frank Ocean dude makes some great music. Nice R&B. Nostalgia.Ultra was dope. I don’t like him as much as I like The Weeknd or Trey Songz, but dude is pretty talented.”
*AFTER Frank Ocean came out.*
Me: “Man, this Frank Ocean dude makes some great music. Nice R&B. Channel Orange looks like it’s gonna be dope. I don’t like him as much as I like The Weeknd or Trey Songz, but dude is pretty talented.”
So, nothing really changes for me. As seen by the fact that Drake (*go ahead, insert typical “Drake is soft” retort*) is my second fav artist right now (behind Kanye) I care less about the masculinity of an artist. All I care is the quality of the music. If it’s great, I’m a fan.
Came out is supposed to be in quotes by the way.
This. Minus the Drake part. And not even tryna be funny.
Nostalgia was my ish for a minute. There Will Be Tears still floats in my repeat list, and I can’t even relate to that. I just like the song. Period.
I am wondering how this will affect the dynamics of Odd Future, but I assume that they had to have known before he made this public anyway. So kinda makes all their gay bashing seem, less, genuine? No? Dunno… But you get what I mean.
Allegedly Tyler was as receptive as Tyler might be to hearing such news. I think I saw 2 tweets that were attributed to him that were mainly supportive of Frank (in a Tyler the Creator way)
Well look at that. And thanks to this new invention I just learnt about called Google, I read it first hand.
Welp… That’s that.
A lot of people have been wondering what’s up with Odd Future’s gay bashing for a while now, especially considering Syd Tha Kid, who is openly a lesbian, is with them. So this about Frank just makes those questions resonate even more.
And we won’t even get into Odd Futures misogyny.
They are more “conformity” bashing than anything else, meaning they deliberately say the things that you are “not supposed to say” for the sake of rebellion. I would not expect them to change their subject matter at all. They may be offensive but they are equal opportunity offensive. No one group is singled out, they attack any and everyone.
CHUUUUCH!
Yea, I read what Tyler The Creator wrote in support of Frank. I like Odd Future. Mainly for Earl Sweatshirt, Tyler, Frank Ocean, and Domo Genesis. Odd Future is one of my fav groups out there. Not on Black Hippy’s level or even YMCMB. But they are certainly better than MMG. I don’t understand why they’re so popular.
This is purely speculation on my part, but I’m going to say, when the dust settles, he won’t have lost anything, might have even gained more afterwards. As you rightly pointed out his music is mainly for women. I don’t know that many dudes who were checking for him (I couldn’t name any of his songs to be honest with you). If men suddenly abandoned him he won’t lose much in numbers (again, that’s speculation on my part) But if ever there was an audience that has supported LGBT, it has been women. In my observation (which admittedly is anecdotal) the further to the left on the political spectrum someone is the more vocal they are in support of LGBT issues. Accordingly, I have seen few black feminist that don’t support LGBT community. He’ll win more of those, than he lose of conservative black women.
In fact, for each one he might lose over the perception that he had been lying about who he was (for lack of a better term), he would probably win 10 or 20 for being so open. Like I don’t think it’s even a contest. Will it cost him nothing at all? No I’m not saying that. I’m not naive. He might market towards women but he operates among black people. And the truth that no one will want to hear (but I’ll say anyway) is that people can reject or embrace you based on any superficial or meaningful thing they chose. And there’s nothing you (or anyone else for that matter) can do about it. And so some will embrace him, some will reject him. Some will claim it doesn’t matter and be lying. How that affects Frank, only time will tell.
I do disagree with 1 tiny thing that you said. I don’t agree that his letter decouples from his sexuality, in my opinion, part of what was so frustrating for him, is that he felt the other person felt the same thing, but just wouldn’t take a step, and jump out of that window with him because he couldn’t accept or acknowledge his sexuality as well. So I think we can all relate to unrequited love, that part should resonate with anyone, but I don’t think the letter made his sexuality a secondary issue. It was inextricably part of the plot. JMO.
I was an early adopter to OFWGKTA so I was kinda shocked when Frank Ocean caught on mainstream, in some ways he is still slept on though. I mean he still hasn’t dropped his debut… which is gonna fly off of the shelves due to the admission alone. Lets not start patting backs yet though. Lets see how this is handled by the public going forward. Wait until we’re all over the novelty of this and the homophobic Frank Ocean jokes start rolling in. Wait until people start reading “gayness” into EVERY lyric/video/guest appearance. Just wait… its coming.
Think about Obama. When he was being elected EVERYBODY was in love with him, and outside of his political opponents or staunch repubs, no one had a bad word to say about him lest they were called racist. Then we got comfortable with him and it started rolling in. I know thats not a perfect metaphor but you get the point.
Yeah I’m gonna have to disagree with your Obama metaphor. Barack was getting the business proper from Conservatives and so-called Democrats (the Hillary PUMAs) aplenty leading up to the elections and right after. Dude had no grace period (to let me tell it)
No grace period at all. Many of his haters- you know, all those people who didn’t vote at all because they didn’t like Obama but couldn’t bring themselves to vote for McCain- were just quiet in the beginning, waiting for something to b!tch about.
Yep, its cool with me. I dont care if u gay, straight, black white or polkadot. If your songs are good, im a fan. Panama you have it half rite. I dont think most women have a problem with bi men, we have a huge problem with DOWN LOW bi men. Theres a big difference. As long as you out in the open about your shit & own it, i gotta respect that. Still wouldnt date you tho. Lol. So yea but i totally dig franks decision. That took elephant balls.
Yep, its cool with me. I dont care if u gay, straight, black white or polkadot. If your songs are good, im a fan. Panama you have it half rite. I dont think most women have a problem with bi men, we have a huge problem with DOWN LOW bi men. Theres a big difference. As long as you out in the open about your sh*t & own it, i gotta respect that. Still wouldnt date you tho. Lol. So yea but i totally dig franks decision. That took elephant balls.
“Still wouldnt date you tho.”
LOL, and… there’s the problem. If it doesn’t matter, it doesn’t matter right? But hey get it how you want it. (I personally think that everyone gets to pick whatever reason they want to discriminate, cause EVERYONE does it).
I mean if thats discriminating, i’ll be dat. Its just not my cup of tea for my man to be of a bisexual nature. Ive said this before, i like alpha males. But thats my personal preference.
It is discriminating and so you will be dat… you just won’t be that alone. We all discriminate. We will all be dat. Women (like men) have every right to use whatever characteristic/preference they want to choose their men. As much as the fellas hate it, I can’t see telling women, they can’t prefer tall men. If that’s what women want they have every right to discriminate based on that. They just don’t get to say, it isn’t discrimination afterwards.
Plus it’s not like men don’t discriminate based on their preferences (we absolutely do). And it’s not like men don’t engage in double standards (we absolutely do). I just think this topic is one of those ones that exposes women’s double standards: i.e. someone’s sexual past shouldn’t matter… unless he’s a bisexual male.
Lol, if its about what you are attracted to, its ok. If that attraction is to the same sex, let’s give you a standing ovation. But if you’re not attracted to men who like men, you’re a hypocrite and you’re discriminating, you hateful bigot. LOVE IT.
You conflate Black gay people and white gay people A LOT.
Pardon? I was talking about the idea, brought up in the post that Frank Ocean’s attractions, love, or whatever it is, is ok. And that we should applaud his honesty. But at the same time we should give a side eye and insinuate hypocrisy and/or bigotry when women say they are not attracted to bi men. That’s the real double standard.
The bi things is an objectionably dumb stance, but many gay people feel the same about them so you’re not alone there. I was referencing your “applauds” part. No one applauds for Black people being gay. The current LGBT movement doesn’t back Black people at all unless they need some “Check if you have HIV” posters. So all your hostility towards gay Black people is hilariously misdirected. And particularly offends my Black Nationalist leanings to throw other Black people under the bus based on being tenuously affiliated with white people.
What hostility towards Black gay people? Get out of your imagination. The post was ABOUT applauding Frank Oceans honesty about his feelings! Quit jerking Your Damn Knee and projecting views on me that I have not expressed. You pro gay people really take the cake.Smmfh.
Everything about the “gay agenda” and the gay rights movement is specifically framed for white gay people. You can’t separate the fact that Frank Ocean is a Black man from this discussion. Stopped being disingenuous.
You’re shocked that Wild Cougar is an unrepentant homophobe? Next we’ll find out that water is wet and the sky is blue.
Unrepentant homophobe? Nice snap judgement. And that’s based on what? Which words posted here indicate I hate or fear gay people? This is precisely the reason people don’t speak their truth. Because as soon as they do, somebody will jump up and call them names to shut them up and marginalize their point of view. Once that person is demonized and dehumanized everyone should fall into line and ignore whatever they have to say.
Sound familiar? A little? Think. Hard. About hypocrisy and judgementalism. Hate. That sorta thing. It will come to you.
You have a right to believe what you want. I have a right not to like it. I’m not hating you personally, but I do viscerally disagree with your beliefs. All I will say is that you seem to know a lot about fluid sexuality. Take that how you wanna.
And you know a lot about mental illness. I could use some names here, but I know how to analyze a point of view, rationally. Maybe cause I’m not mentally ill.
oh miii gosh!!
Do you guys know how much I pray that you guys end up together!! The both of ya’ll are my Barack and Mitchell on VSB. It pains me whenever ya’ll are at each other’s necks, competing, fighting and straddling each other with your divergent viewpoints. aiyaiyai!! Make love not war.
****Lol, if its about what you are attracted to, its ok. If that attraction is to the same sex, let’s give you a standing ovation. But if you’re not attracted to men who like men, you’re a hypocrite and you’re discriminating, you hateful bigot. LOVE IT.****
Ok so… I’m not sure if you intended this response for me or not, it was indented under my post (so I think it was meant as a reply to me) but your conclusion was not supported by anything I said (so I think it wasn’t meant as a reply to me). Just so we’re clear, my post was about ALL people being allowed to discriminate on whatever basis they saw fit in finding a mate, and about ALL people doing it. And that we can’t pretend that it ISN’T discrimination.
The double standard is a separate issue altogether. It’s not about if you would discriminate it’s about whether you would say that “one’s sexual past shouldn’t matter” and yet not date someone specifically “because of their sexual past”.
is it still a double standard when it’s a potential health risk?
men are totally fine with a woman being bi-sexual, because most of the sexual activity between women is lower risk (lower, not risk-free).
i wouldn’t date a dude with 1000 chicks on his belt or a dude who has slept with any number of men.
this is not a double standard, that’s a standard period
i dont know any woman that will completely discount a man’s sexual background (unless it’s been said here in the comments). we sure as hell already know how men feel about women’s sexual history…
” is it still a double standard when it’s a potential health risk?”
Yes it is. Y does everyone deny double standards so vehemently? Just because something is a double standard doesn’t make it irrational or wrong.
“men are totally fine with a woman being bi-sexual, because most of the sexual activity between women is lower risk (lower, not risk-free).”
It’s lower risk, but that’s not the reason we don’t mind…
You say that women don’t completely discount a man’s sexual past, but the keyword in that statement was “completely”. Yall take note, but don’t really care that much in general (yeah I made a generalization, get over it) but men do (and have a right to whether women like the reasons or not). That’s the double standard. It’s no conspiracy against women. If you wanted the standard to be equal, then the way you could make it that way is to care as much as men do, rather than trying to change men’s opinions/feelings. It’s always easier to change yourself than to change others (in my experience it is at least).
“if you wanted the standard to be equal, then the way you could make it that way is to care as much as men do, rather than trying to change men’s opinions/feelings.”
i think that’s what the feminist movement tried to do. people who hold power, don’t like to relinquish it so easy.
i still dont get why not wanting to date a bi-sexual man is a double standard instead of a dating preference.
” i still dont get why not wanting to date a bi-sexual man is a double standard instead of a dating preference.”
Not wanting to date a bi-sexual man (or one who doesn’t consider himself that but who’s had sex with men before) is an individual’s decision. The fact that men don’t mind a woman they’re dating being bi-sexual while women generally do is the double standard. The same dynamic (one gender cares, the other doesn’t) is what creates the sexual behavior double standard as well. That was my point
” I just think this topic is one of those ones that exposes women’s double standards: i.e. someone’s sexual past shouldn’t matter… unless he’s a bisexual male.”
Ding ding ding! We have a winner folks! Yeah, everybody discriminates and it’s our God-given right to do so. There are a lot of women who don’t dig bald men. I’d defend these women all day long, because I have some things I discriminate based on as well. Who you choose to date, sex, and marry is very personal. Only YOUR opinion and preference matters, not the politically correct police’s views and ideals.
I think people can care less about his sexuality. The boy is talent his music is different but still has that R &B feel to it.
“I dont think most women have a problem with bi men, we have a huge problem with DOWN LOW bi men. Theres a big difference. As long as you out in the open about your sh*t & own it, i gotta respect that. Still wouldnt date you tho. Lol.”
Shout out to Iceprincess for the LULZ of the day, LMAO!!!
Yes, good music is supposed to elicit a range of emotions. However, that does not
give the listener the right and or permission to delve into the private business of its creator. A person’s sexual orientation is not fodder for public consumption or speculation, in my opinion. If one’s sexual orientation was responsible for their musicality, then by all means yes, it would matter! But since that is not the case, everyone needs to mind their own.
His admission will definitely impact his career. Whether positive or negative, it is too early to tell. But just so he knows, he has gained one fan for life-African Mami-. Prior to this, I had never heard of him, just the group but never cared to listen to them.
He has def gained fans after this, AM, but he’s lost some too. So the question will be; will he gain more (fans) than he loses?
Its kind of a double edged sword, R&B consumers are usually older or women in fictional relationships with the artist. Frank has potential to lose both but then im sure he gained fans even those who say “im not homophobic, i bought channel orange”
I’d heard of Frank Ocean/Odd Future a while ago but I wasn’t up on any of their music. But hey, if it’s good music, it’s good.
But from what I’ve heard, Tumblr wasn’t even the real way he came out. His album was sent to journalists to review. They noticed it included love songs to ‘her’ and ‘him’ and they were like O______________________0 and the Tumblr was to confirm it.
*snaps for the kids*
Yeah, the journalist reviewed it and jumped to conclusions based on the lyrics. The letter was going to be “released” via the album liner notes, but since everyone was speculating about it, he had to take control of his OWN life and speak his truth.
LOL @ the screwface
Sorta off-topic. I’m going to need Tyler, Earl, Frank Ocean, and BadBadNotGood to collaborate on an album.
i knew before even reading, that the letter would be well written, poetic, prose. i was not prepared for just how beautiful or human it was, though. i’ve been a big FO fan for a while and this letter changes nothing. i think if anything, it has brought him into the consciousness of a whole slew of folks that didn’t know he or his music existed before a few days ago. it will cost him some small minds that used to be fans and maybe some super conservative and/or religious folks, but overall, i think he just widened his fan base by miles. he is an awesome writer. i love pretty words and his tumblr and songs have a’plenty so he will remain one of my favorite young artists.
what makes it genius is the fact that it is written so deliberately and honestly and yet still has so much grey. i love that he said exactly what he meant to say and yet left it up to interpretation for the masses. malignant love is something we all should be lucky enough to experience. and frankly, that’s really all he described. falling in love. he made this very important statement without doing anything but telling the story of his first love. and if those people who stop listening to his music really think they’ve never jammed to a love song written for or about a same sex relationship, let them stay delusional.
Yes, and wonderfully beautiful and human layer. Even if I never heard of anything from him before that, that would have made me listen just of the strength of that letter. He’s a brilliant writer. Leagues ahead of his peers.
That letter was so beautiful. When I first heard “Thinking Bout You” I thought it was about a man, but since I think all men are gay before I think they are straight, no one took my thoughts serious. I feel so passionate about a Black man’s right to admit that he likes men without his manhood being stripped from him. But anyways…. yea, I hope that this doesn’t try to make him a mascot for anything besides good music.
I actually thought the same thing about “Thinking Bout You” but then when i saw it was written for a female artist i just shrugged it off now it has a new meaning again.
I just wanna know…what does Tevin Campbell make of all this?
P.S.
Is Raven-Symone next? *files nails*
Damn i thought raven-somone already came out a couple weeks ago. But i could be wrong.
*symone
*hangs head in shame @ that typo*
@IP
There were rumors about her dating a former ANTM contestant named AzMarie. But, Raven said that her sexuality was her business.
I agree with Raven, it is her business and hers only to do as she pleases!
Oh ok, gotcha. Shes right too. Shoot i need to turn gay real quick so i can have a shot at her & her billions lmfao.
I love this man and his letter made me tear up a little. However, when it came to his admission I believe he is “Ann Heche” gay. I wouldn’t be suprised if he is married to a women with kids in the next 10 years and this is dismissed as an “experimental” phase as David Bowe has demonstrated.
CERN pretty much solved the universe the other day by detecting what is pretty likely to be the Higgs boson.
LOL i’ve been waiting to see a black blog write about it, too.
i love your comment.
“i’ve been waiting to see a black blog write about it…”
Easier to find the Higgs boson.
Now I’m waiting for the biological implications. I’m sorry, but while physics is cool, I prefer to stay close to my scientific roots, thanks. But it’s good to know we have a clue what’s going on in the universe.
Hey, I’m just glad Ebony even alluded to Borderline Personality Disorder in one of their articles this month. Maybe I won’t be one of a handful of negroes in my online support group.
“Now I’m waiting for the biological implications.”
I was just thinking about that today. Transferred free electrons and protons are such an essential part of known biological mechanisms (photosynthesis, metabolism, ATP synthesis)…I wonder what unexplained life processes might be driven by split second appearances of Higgs bosons.
I heart you
Using quantum mechanics to explain cellular respiration is like using general relativity to explain the rate of acceleration of a taco being dropped off the leaning tower of Pisa, possible but needlessly complicated. And that, ladies and gentlemen, is the extent of my B.A. scientific knowledge. Enough to pick up a chick at a NSBE conference (or even a drunk lab assistant if I can change the convo topic after 30 seconds).
Hey now…I used to hear murmurings of “quantum biology” around the lab I used to work at.
Once upon a time, chemists thought biology would forever be limited to animal behavior and labeling the h3ll out of creatures and their parts…now we have DNA and molecular bio.
Just don’t refer to me as a chemist who can’t do math, and we straight Royale!
Googling…*pretends to understand.
wow, awesome!
Haha! Yeah, ditto.
YES! I saw this yesterday and got super excited. I was going to strip naked and take a lap around my neighborhood, but the police had some pretty harsh words for me the last time I did it. Turns out women are the only ones who can get away with offering their body as a way to avoid legal consequences.
Wait, we’re missing the bigger picture here. You’re interested in particle physics. Meaning you must marry me and become my 365th wife, completing the cycle.
“I was going to strip naked and take a lap around my neighborhood”
Geek out, with your cheeks out!
clap for ‘em.
and as exciting as that is, a solid 99 percent of people couldn’t give a flying f*ck. not because it’s not a big deal. but because nobody can explain why its a big deal aside from saying that we may have located the particle that is responsible for life.
i’m sure evangelicals are not f*cking with this either.
funny enough, i always thought it hilarious that the Higgs-Boson was referred to as the “god particle”.
i wonder how Jesus feels about this.
—> http://media.photobucket.com/image/recent/n8rm/funny_jesus_6.gif
lmao!
Yeah yeah yeah. When the Higgs Boson unlocks the secrets of a drum kit and starts putting out some hot anthems then maybe we will start caring. And of course race comes into play. The Journal of Oceanography and Physical Science hasn’t published a single word about Frank Ocean coming out (can’t be subject matter…. I’ll let you guess what it is), so why should a BLACK blog write about the Boson being outed?
“Boson being outed”
I see what you did there.
My post was a deliberate mischeivous derailing, but wasn’t meant to be mean-spirited. I don’t (often) get hung up on what “negroes do or don’t do.” I do what I do, therefore at least one negro does it. Well, maybe two. My homie Degrasse Tyson, holla!
I’m more inclined to conclude that physics isn’t discussed here because this is a humor blog about pop culture and romance.
Maybe its just me but the last few comments @royalwcheese posted about science just mind fracked the h3ll outta me, will all the sistas who dig the sciences, or can comprehend a Neil Degrasse Tyson lecture PLEASE stand up!…….I lowkey gotta kindergarten crush lol
Reading Frank’s letter made me cry. NOT tear up but cry. I think of myself as a hard nut but there goes that. It was so well written yet so raw and sincere. It took me back to all the anguish of unrequited & malignant love. I’ve listened 2 of his songs but I’m now a fan just coz of his writing abilities. Would I date a bi-sexual man? No. That’s me but I’m a fan.
It took me back to all the anguish of unrequited & malignant love.
exactly.
we’ve ALL been there. man/woman to man/woman.
shows he’s human.
how many dudes call drake a fa**ot for being ‘soft’ etc.. (but call him a fraud when he tries to be hard…irony).
Am I the only one a little freaked out by the prospect of him singing songs directly to another man on his upcoming album? That’s what started the whole rumour right, him singing to a “him”?
I feel no way when I listen to George Michael, Elton John & Queen (as camp as they are) but none of their songs that I listen to are directed at other men.
I can’t be the only one who thinks this way?
I agree, I can listen to Queen or Elton John and not feel much of anything. Since their song are not brazen declarations of their sexual preference.
Um, like Michael Jackson?
He always said used her or girl, but, ummmm really?
That was the question I posted below. Are guys going to be comfortable singing a song about another man when they buy his album?
I don’t know if I could buy an album where a woman is singing to another women simply bc I can’t relate to the theme of a woman loving another woman.
That’s real.
And with the taboo that still exists about homosexuality, it’s gonna be awkward. As I stated earlier, there are songs I love but can’t relate to. But me singing it doesn’t mean squat. However, if I start singing a song written by a dude about another dude… Ermmm…. Yea. Men barely sing loves songs out loud when it’s a woman talking bout her man.
Exactly.
“That was the question I posted below. Are guys going to be comfortable singing a song about another man when they buy his album?”
Hmm, I imagine this to be similar to guys not being comfy singing chick songs that sing to men. Like Beyonce for example. Don’t ACK like ya’ll don’t be singing along to her ish.
Oh, but ya’ll do ack like it. I see you, tho. lol
It’s not the same. It’s accepted for a woman to sing to a man. This is a man singing to a man.
“It’s not the same. It’s accepted for a woman to sing to a man. This is a man singing to a man.”
But the argument is not WHO is singing to a man, it’s that it’s being sung to a man period. Their point was that men would have trouble singing lyrics meant for another man. I made the woman-singer comparison because I’ve noticed some men publicly singing R&B love songs women made to men due to the explicit mentioning of loving a man.
ETA: Ooops, that should say “men BEING UNCOMFY WITH publicly singing…”
I know I sing Adele like its nobody’s business…Mainly in the car, at home around people that know me, hell sometimes while going for a run, but I song think it says anything about my sexual preference just that I can relate to the emotions in the song regardless of who its about. Then again I can’t say non reading ninjas will feel the same way
Call me über-liberal, but I feel offended on behalf if gay entertainers that they have to play to a heteronormative crowd. I see it the same way people of certain cultures must pretend to be something else, r act in service of the majority, to be seen as acceptable. I was actually kind of ticked off by the show “Gay Eye for the Straight Guy.” It’s like the Amy equivalent of “The Help” (in retrospect).
Wow, autocorrect put an umlaut over my u!
Good piece Panama.
My first thoughts are how many people are actually going to read the letter. It’d be one thing if he admitted it in a song that was just classic, but he happened to mention his sexuality,. it’d be something else if it was something like a youtube clip that was in top rotations. But how much of hip hop will actually read this letter? And if they don’t read it, then isn’t his genius somewhat lost.
My other thoughts are that if people don’t like it, then that’s not really his problem. He’s just being himself and I’m sure that there will be positive reactions from this. I hope that he doesn’t let the (possible) negative reactions of some people who’ve “died inside already” stop him.
If not for VSB, I’m sure I would have never heard of this.
Twenty plus years ago , give or take, Culture Club was on top and very few people knew Boy George was writing songs about his relationship with the bands drummer, who denied the relationship. I don’t remember if the bands demise came because he outed himself later or his behavior became so out of control, but people really supported the music. I did and still do, a forty something, married father of three. My wife and I will sing along because its good music, period. So good luck to FO, if the music you make is good people will like it regardless of the artist’s personal life.
“I don’t remember if the bands demise came because he outed himself later or his behavior became so out of control, but people really supported the music.”
Actually, the demise of Culture Club came about not because of Boy George’s outing (every knew he was out then). The real reason was that his excessive drug abuse tore the band apart- which is why they broke up at the height of their fame.
You can tell I grew up in the 80′s, can’t you? LMAO!!!
Coulture Club was known as a gay British group. If you didn’t know Boy George was gay the first time you saw him, you weren’t very aware.
The problem was that they were mislabeled. Only two of the members were gay- and only Boy George was open about it. It’s similar to Ashford & Simpson proteges The Dynamic Superiors. They were also touted as being a “gay group”, but in fact the only member who was actually gay was the lead singer Tony Washington.
+1, I always felt this about Johnny Gill and Tevin Campbell
Frank is still fairly hit and miss with me as an artist. I was going to see him in concert cuz i thought his Coachella set was pretty good (of course his tickets sold out the night of “the letter” gay mafia ain nothn to F with). However singing about men is a different monster completely, i think the reaction was fairly tame but is a man singing about another man getting radio spins? topping Billboards? i dont think so
ya’ll act like most of his music is literally gonna be about him singing to men. i don’t see franks persona changing anytime soon. he still more masculine than most r&b dudes nowadays anyway. I think most men wil be mad because they might be forced to think about their own sexuality now. ^_^
^^hell yeah
“Imagine if you found out that Teddy Pendergrass was gay.”
Well, there was that incident with the tranny and the car accident that has hounded Teddy Pendergrass for about 25 years…moving right along…
I can’t really say in what way Frank Ocean’s admission will affect his career. Nothing against him, but I never listened to his music…and that was long before he admitted to being in love with a man. He’s with Odd Future AND Tricky Stewart? Nah man…can’t rock with that.
I applaud Frank for his bravery, but that still won’t endear me to him- unless I hear something from him that grabs my attention.
However, if there was any gay R&B singer that I wished blew up, it was the dude on Motown from the early 2000′s named Donnie. He put out a damned good album called “The Colored Section” (That is, if anyone remembers it LOL)..
yesssss Donnie was my dude!
as a natural haired girl, Cloud 9 was my sonnng. lol
Special shout out to Bobby Watson from Rufus & Chaka Khan for laying down the bass on that joint!
LOVE that someone mentioned Donnie’s The Colored Section! I discovered this gem on Pandora and instantly fell in love. Cloud 9 is my transitioning song lol. Do You Know, Turn Around, Heaven Sent… all my jams!
That whole album was nothing but bangers. It’s a shame that dude didn’t blow up- he had a lot of important things to say on his album. I mean, the weak impersonation of Al Jarreau known as Kem moved units at Motown, but Donnie didn’t? Where’s the justice?
My favorite songs on there were the ones you mentioned- as well as “You Got A Friend”, “Our New National Anthem” and “Masterplan”.
Well I like “Love Calls” and “Can’t Stop Loving You”… That’s about it. Agreed on Kem getting more love than him. Unfair!
About the Tranny thing- Same with Eddie being caught with a Tranny- Trannies look like women. If you are out hunting for a prostitute and you run into a tranny that doesn’t mean you wanted a tranny. I give them some room on the “Got caught with a tranny” thing.
Nah playa…
You don’t know what you’re talking about for real. Go to Honolulu on the strip and I guarantee you won’t be able to tell a “Mahu” from a woman.
If *I* can tell the difference, I’m not sure why a man couldn’t.
Unless, you’re *not* trying to tell the difference.
But, hey…it’s whatever.
I see somebody’s trying to start some sh*t here, LMAO!!!
I promise I’m not. *snickers*
miss t-lee you prolly are a tranny. That’s why you can tell so easily. You know what to look for. LOL
Oh yeah?? bwhahah. My secret is out!!!
This conversation has been fun.
also true in Korea (you can sometimes get extra $$ if you have a joystick)
+1 bhillboy – It can happen to someone who’s not gay. Now if it happens more than once….yeah we got a problem then lol
“If you are out hunting for a prostitute and you run into a tranny that doesn’t mean you wanted a tranny”
I bet some guys would react to the big reveal the same way that Grandma Griswold reacted when Mrs. Griswold discovered that the dog p*ssed on the picnic basket…shrugged and kept on chewing the sandwich.
I read the letter. It was beautiful and revealing, nostalgic, sad, and hopeful, all at the same damn time. BUT, after Google informed me that he has a new album coming out in less than two weeks, I can’t help but take the uber cynical view that releasing the letter now is a publicity stunt to spur interest and maybe increase sales, like actors do when they have a new film coming out.
This should be the link:
http://frankocean.tumblr.com/post/26473798723
*click on the letter a couple of times to embiggen.
LMAO @ “embiggen!” That’s a perfectly cromulent word! LOL
embiggen is one of my fave words.
LOL, I embiggened it and it was still to ensmallened for me to read it. Left my glasses in the car…
Actually, the letter was meant to be the liner notes of his album.. The “Thank You’s”.. But reports from a few overzealous album reviewers led to his choice to drop it now…
I don’t thinnk his intentions were disingenuous, though I do agree, this is the best pre-album press a new artist could ask for. One with sights set beyond the “urban” crowd anyway.
Definitely for publicity, but that’s something that has to be done right? Can’t fault him for getting his name out there again.
well this letter was originally in the thank yous for the album. so it wasn’t supposed to be read until the actual album was released. the reason he released it early is because of the music reviewer pointing out the fact that he had songs that said “him” instead of “her” and the rumor mill started churning. but i’m sure it will help album sales as well. just like it would have when the cd came out. lol
“BUT, after Google informed me that he has a new album coming out in less than two weeks, I can’t help but take the uber cynical view that releasing the letter now is a publicity stunt to spur interest and maybe increase sales, like actors do when they have a new film coming out.”
I guess Frank did this because he felt Def Jam was trying to “Saigon” him.
There was speculation he was bi after a journalist claimed he “came out” in songs off his new album where he mentions a male interest instead. He cleared things up.
the courage to speak your truth is all there is.
everything else is smoke and mirrors ~*~
I don’t understand this fear that all of his songs will now be written “to” men. When you listen to a gorgeous love song, do you ever actually tthink about he artist’s relationships, or your own? So what does it matter who the the artist was thinking of when they put pen to pad? If they got you inside of your feelings, then mission accomplished.
I also think that the fact that Frank doesn’t sing explicitly about sex (a la Trey Songz, for example), makes this “fear” even more irrelevant. I could understand being uncomfy with a song talking about hitting the Hershey higHway after a night at the club, but he’s not that kind of artist…
I think it’s clear from the way the letter was crafted, what kind of artist Frank Ocean is. I’m an even bigger fan now than I was 5 days ago, and I can’t wait to bawl my eyes out to Channel Orange.
“When you listen to a gorgeous love song, do you ever actually think about he artist’s relationships, or your own? ”
Exactly.
+2
I don’t know what to make of all of this. It can truly go either way (pun… too soon?). If I had to put my money anywhere tho I would say… long run he’s gon just be that underground music dude that came out about his minglings with the same sex.
I think one of the main things beyond great music that made Luther and makes Prince and Johnny Gill and others, whose sexuality we aren’t certain of, so fascinating is that we don’t know and because we don’t know we get to question and use our imagination… whether you’re straight gay you can think “hmmmm I wonder if they would give me the business if I saw he/she out somewhere/concert/gas station” OR you put yourself in their shoes while you sing their song because hey you don’t know, maybe they are straight or maybe they are gay or whatever (did that make sense?). Unfortunately, he’s taken uncertainty away from us. He’s saying “him” and “he” and stuff then it’s “she” and “her”. He’s getting too specific. Those who can’t relate just won’t and will more likely find someone else (who’s prolly in the closet lol) to relate to… now, whether or not the majority will be able to relate to his music? That will be interesting. All in all he is a good writer. However, now that he’s assigned a sex and somewhat he has assigned an orientation (for now bi) will people be able to look past that and focus on the music and the meaning and not so much the actually words… I doubt it.
This reminds me of a childhood story tho… I remember when I was a child I used to hang with my cousins during the weekend over our Summer Breaks from time to time. And, in the car to pick me up my aunt would play all this old school music. I mean so much music. My mental catalog of old school tunes is pretty ridiculous because of these trips with her every weekend. Anyway, one weekend we’re in the car and Luther comes on and my cousins and I are singing and laughing and let me tell you my aunt LOVED-D-D-D-D her some LUTHA… I think in her mind they were actually married and he was just away working or some sh*t… Right.. so… yeah… we’re singing and I say “I heard he was gay” and she stopped the car at a green light and screams “DON’T YOU EVA LET ME HEAR YOU SAY THAT ABOUT LUTHA!!! EVVVVVAAAAA!!!”… O_o… oh ok, but I’m just sayin I heard. Smh. Now imagine her poor lil heart if she found out it were true… lawd.
I genuinely chuckled at your pun. Ha.
But I feel you. Even if he isn’t bi, even if SEXUALLY, he only likes women, but he happened to fall in love EMOTIONALLY with a man, the vast majority of people (hey, myself included) are gonna deem him gay.
I still bangs with Nostalgia though (pause).
I know and that really sucks for him (pun?- yikes).
Ok that was a cheap shot
Man yall havin too much fun with these puns lol. Can’t front like I didn’t laugh out loud tho
One thing that always bugs me is people who question the sexuality of married men. Prince has been married twice and was a known smanger. He smanged Vanity, Appolonia, Sheena Easton, Kim Basinger, Carmen Electra, and his two wives. None of them ever said he was gay. Same with Johnny Gill- he has two kids. Now that might make them BI but it doesn’t make them Homo. Now they’re going after Eddie Murphy- You know Eddie, with 7 kids and more bad chicks in his past than a retired pimp. You all are going after Wil Smith and Duane Martin- two married men with kids. For some reason, speculation about married men rubs me the wrong way.
that’s cool… I couldn’t careless honestly,but I’m interested in how it plays out. Granted Prince, Will and many others got babies and wives and their preference(s) are questioned… But if there weren’t a chance it could be true would anyone ask? (If a tree falls and no one is around to hear it, will the chicken cross the road?) Point is… Look at John Travolta, guys CAN be married with kids and like peen. IJS not judging just sayin.
I just wanna thank you for using the term “couldn’t care less” properly. That is all.
That’s fine but why guess about the sexuality of a person that’s made it clear by their actions that they, at the very least, like women sexually?
So what you sayin? I shouldn’t question whether a dude will f*ck a tranny because he has a ring and some kids (looking at you Eddie)? Burr? I mean as much as you belittle marriage on here anyway to turn around now and act like it’s some kind of TESTAMENT to who a person is… is a little queer (meaning weird lol just messing with you). Anyway, Let’s strip away everything we know about their dealings with others and take each artist in question at face value… let’s take them at what they present before us nixing wives and babies and all past relationships… you have Prince a man that wears heels, eyeliner and @ss out pants… you Johnny Gill who daintier than a butterfly. Why would I be wrong to say “hmmmm, he’s married and all but… doesn’t he seem a little gay. I wonder if he likes peen?” Why would I be wrong to question that? I mean I’ve even questioned guys I’ve dated after they’ve done something questionable and hello they approached me… what’s the big deal?
*Disclaimer* I love Prince and Johnny Gill and I love Luther so much I didn’t even bring him up again (until now but you what I’m saying).
Uh oh.
What’d I say?
This dude is just mad sensitive lol.
First of all, you never read me denigrating marriage. Not once. Go back and check it but you haven’t. You may assume that because I’m divorced that I may have a problem with marriage. I don’t. Marriage was one of the best decisions I’ve made with my life and divorce was a close second. Secondly, none of the men you mentioned got caught having sex with a tranny. They were caught in the car with a tranny. Splitting hairs, maybe. Until, you call me gay because I was in the car with my onetime lesbian sister. Thirdly, I don’t know if any of the men you mentioned are gay but neither do you. You don’t know. What you do know is that Johnny Gill and Eddie have a combined 9 kids. Eddie’s been married to one of the baddest redbones on Earth and has been documented to having Halle Berry, Holly Robinson (Peete), Scary Spice, Tracy Edmonds, Rocsi, Mya Gilbert. Not one of them questioned his sexuality and every one of those women are certified bangers. As far as Prince- Appolonia, Vanity, Carmen Elektra, Sheena Easton, Kim Basinger his two wives have never said anything. So being hateful is Rude. You’re being Rude.
My issue is why are you questioning anything? What’s the point? To prove that these men are….? What exactly? Are you trying to show the world that a man with 7 kids is a h0m0? If so, for what? I just think some women get a kick out of calling men that they can’t have gay. When I was younger- wack chicks used to approach me and when I told them I wasn’t interested they called me gay. As if. Why because I didn’t have gold teeth and tattoos. Or was it my mastery of the English language. Maybe they just never had a live nigguh in their lives. Whatever it was it was annoying. Just because I don’t want your number don’t mean I have sex with men. It only means, i don’t want to have sex with you.
Ok well in the midst of your references going from “they” to “I” I realized… we can agree to diagree. Maybe some women do get a kick out of calling men out like some men get a kick out of playing women or like some me get a kick out of being on the DL (btw that terms exists only because the behavior does) so we’ll just call it a draw. Enjoy your weekend.
Attraction and love is way more complex than we want it to be. There are many people on the straight side of the fence that are uncomfortable with the ambiguity of his loving a man but not declaring himself gay. There are just as many people (possibly more) on the queer side of the fence railing for him to come out. And get mad if he doesn’t. We call the straight ones bigots, tho.
I know someone who has an ambiguous sexuality and he says he wants to refrain from labeling himself, but feels pressure from both sides. He gets hate from both sides, too. But we get to call the straight ones homophobic.
Anyway, people think I’m anti gay. I’m not, I’m just anti bullsh!t. I can hear some in the gay community saying Frank Ocean was born gay, or bi. When he possibly just fell in love with one man as an adult. May never happen again. I know somebody, a woman, who had romantic feelings for a woman. Once. She was not born gay, or bi.
I really think we need to remove the politics from the issue to see that the reality of love and sexuality is way more complex than we even understand. The idea that sexuality black and white, anybody ever attracted to the same sex is gay for life, and was born that way, is bullsh!t. It is also bullsh!t that you can never change. I understand it is necessary to push that line of thinking so the race/sexuality analogy will work, but its still bs.
If I’m not attracted to a man because he was in love with a man, that’s not homophobia, bigotry, hypocrisy. It’s how my attraction works. Just like Frank Ocean gets to love a man and be himself, I get to not be attracted to him for it.
I respect this.
Wholeheartedly. While simultaneously acknowledging that my first thought (and lingering thought for that matter) is that Frank is a little queer. Is that judgmental of me? Perhaps. But hey. There are men in my life who I have love for. My father, some of my closest friends who I treat like brothers, and even my cousin who I grew up with. I genuinely love them. But to say I’m in love with a man? Sorry, that’s kinda gay.
And STILL, I can say that I acknowledge he never made any reference to sexual preference. Just emotional ties. But that’s the way my mind works. Still respect his music though.
” But to say I’m in love with a man? Sorry, that’s kinda gay.”
What u mean kinda? lol
And I’m wit WC on this one. It makes perfect sense for a woman to be uncomfortable dating a man who has been romantically and or sexually attracted to another man. She has every right to pass on him as a romantic option. Who are these people that think they can tell others who they should date and what they should accept from their potential love interests? I be d@mned if ppl get any say in who I date, smang, and or marry. Go jump off a self-righteous bridge if u disagree
Haha! By “kinda” I meant “very.”
Poetic license. I claim it.
My question: how will dudes feel singing a song to their girl or alone in the car and the lyrics are about loving a man? Serious question here.
I’ve heard and had dudes sing to me songs that were sung by women. If they can do that, this isn’t much different (simply changing “he” “him” to “she”, “her.”)
I see where you’re coming from. His music is tight, but as a guy I’m not as inclined to feel his music as much. I’ve never been the type to really identify with female singers because I can’t identify with the lyrics. Guys think of music as communicating to their lady. Accordingly, I’ve always had more male R&B cats in my rotation because I can identify with where they’re coming from, not so much with women. That being said, while still dope, I can’t identify as much with FO directing his music towards another man, just can’t relate, so it does change the musical experience for me.
$0.02
This was my point exactly. I don’t think I would buy a lesbian artist’s cd not because she is gay but bc I couldn’t relate to her lyrics on loving another woman. Now if she is doing techno or house music then that is fine but if I can’t relate to your lyrics and sing along, I won’t buy your album.
*puts Me’Shell Ndegeocello’s “Peace Beyond Passion” in Mena’s CD player while her back is turned*
*since I didn’t buy the cd, listens intently*
*screaming* I LOVE me some meshell ndegeocello especially in concert, SO SLEPT ON IS SHE!
Now it’s my turn not to understand, because I loves me some “Purple Haze”, even though I can’t relate to it because I’ve never done it. The song is just badass, so when it’s on, it’s played loudly in my car. Can’t relate to “Go Ask Alice” either, but it’s played equally as loud (if no louder). I don’t even understand the lyrics to Wassip Diop’s “Everything Is Never Quite Enough” (the French parts), but I can sing the entire joint like I’ve been speaking French since birth. I can’t STAND Justin Beiber in general, but the remix to “Runaway Love” is seriously on point! So I can’t understand the whole, if I can’t relate to the lyrics, I won’t buy the song/album line of thinking.
I want one, just one woman to tell me that she never shook her azz to “Pass the Courvoisier” knowing full well what summa Busta’s lyrics said. Unless you’re a Tranny, can you relate?
I feel like everyone who has said they can’t buy his music because they can’t relate to the lyrics are just using that as a more PC excuse as to why they are going to stop listening to him because they now believe him to be gay, as opposed to just saying they dont’ want to be associated with anything gay.
There are dudes on here saying they won’t buy because they can’t relate to the lyrics; ok, tell me this…do you have songs with blatanly misogynistic lyrics in them on your playlist right now? Dont’ lie…tell the truth! But, I’m sure these same dudes will say “But, I’m not like that! I dont’ hit women, rape women, feel that all women are biotches and *luts, or feel that my bros come before my *oes. I just like the song.”
*sits back with my cup of strong coffee, awaitin a good response*
It’s not the same. When I, as a woman, listen to a man sing a song about a woman i will sing that song b/c it relates to me, a heterosexual woman. Meaning that b/c i am straight and the man or woman singing a song about the opposite sex is straight, then it relates to me. However, a song about a homosexual just doesn’t relate to me so why would i buy music that doesn’t relate to me. Don’t discount my feelings on a topic b/c you can’t understand what i am saying to just prove a point. I see where you are trying to go but you fell short. Again, it’s the same.
Also, if someone on here says that they can’t relate to the music and that’s why they won’t buy it then so be it. It doesn’t mean that they are being homophobic it just means that the music doesn’t relate to them so why should they buy, sing, or promote the music.
If anything, i think that people are trying to be too politically correct by not admitting that they may be uncomfortable singing his lyrics knowing that they are for someone of the same sex.
Again, these are just my thoughts that i am putting out there and my opinion can always change but the questions that i have posed and the thoughts that i am having don’t come from a place of animosity and if you feel that they do then try not to read so closely into my words.
Albums typically consist of many different types of songs. You’ll have your love songs, your break up songs, your “independence” songs, your socially conscious songs, etc. Frank Ocean, in particular, sings about lots of universal issues, some of them having very little if anything to do with love. So it does kinda sound like a cop-out when you guys are saying you can’t relate to any of his material anymore just because you now know he was in love with a man. I thought that myself earlier, but I didn’t wanna accuse anyone.
Honestly, i never heard of the guy until Watch the Throne. I was never compelled by what i heard to follow up and find any songs done exclusively by him. It seems like some of the people on the site are in the same boat. So in other words, i would have never bought his album and unless I heard a song by him on the radio that i watched, i would have never bought one of his songs.
Cop out or not, it’s a valid argument.
watched = liked.
Ocean is singing about another man using the terms “he” “him” on his new album. That would stick out to me hearing a man say that and tbh, it would probably ruin the song for me. My mother can’t listen to rap music because she’s uncomfortable with the N word being flung around so freely.
I think it’s EXACTLY the same thing. As I clean and sober person of 35 years, I cannot relate to a song about drugs and how good they make you feel when you take them, sung by a drug addict and/or someone who uses drugs. As a straight person, you cannot relate to a song about loving a person of one gender, sung by a person of the same gender.
This falls short where?
I’m just taking what you guys have said, and placing it in another context (it’s not just you, and number of folks on here have made the exact same arguement). I just fail to see the logic in it. It just seems so contrived a statement to make. Let’s say you’re a poor Black person from the hood who has never experienced anything remotely like what life is like for a White 1%’er. Do you then not go see movies about the White 1% because you can’t relate?
But hay, to each his own. My best friend can’t stand the movie “The Pillow Book” because he just doesn’t get it. It’s one of my favs. I don’t love him any less because of it, so…
LOL, is this everybody come out year? After finding out 50-ll other people were gay, just found out Suzie Orman was gay, now Frank Ocean.
I think most of his fans are women, so I don’t think it will affect his career that much as black gay men are all the rage now (it’s true), although there are still some conservative sticklers out there.
I wasn’t a fan necessarily but this doesn’t change my opinion of him or my appreciation of his talent. I’d say it doesn’t matter. We’ve had artists accused of and guilty far more questionable activities than h0m0s.e.xuality and we’ve stuck my them. Surely this is not the “line” for the R&B community at large.
“We’ve had artists accused of and guilty far more questionable activities than h0m0s.e.xuality and we’ve stuck my them.”
Among those being Rick James, Bobby Womack and anyone who was ever a member of The Temptations from 1960-1975!
We’ve had artists accused of and guilty far more questionable activities than h0m0s.e.xuality and we’ve stuck my them.
ALL. OF. THIS!!!!
we’ll condone/get over peeing on underage girls and beating down women, impregnating and abandoning children – but this? falling in love with a man is unforgivable?
O_O
In answering the questions from the post, I think that the orientation of the creator only matters based on the context if what they make. If what the artist has made has cemented the artist into a certain category, like R.Kelly is like ladies man/ R&B thug, then all of a sudden he gay. He just destroyed the mystique of bump and grind forever. this guy has not done that, he has no reputation to live up to no generation of fans to answer to. He has the freedom to take that risk and the time to develop whatever fan base he can get cause he did thus sooner vs later.
At the same time, if someone says or does something that touches people at the core of their humanity, that will be what people remember. So if it touches enough people the right way, it doesn’t matter. Many of the greatest philosophers were gay, but it doesn’t Change the impact if what they did. I think only write you off if u r a hypocrite like a gay pastor who condemns it then does it I.e. Eddie Long
Boom. That was Huey Newton in 1970 people. If you think you have a right to control a person’s body on that level, I can’t fux with you because you’re likely to endorse some crazy ish.
Anyway, with Frank Ocean, I gotta give him props. I don’t think it’ll hurt his career as much as put a ceiling on it. While certain people will check for him because he’s the gay singer, certain other people won’t check for him because he’s the gay singer. On the flip side, I don’t think he was gunning to be the next Michael Jackson anyway, so it might be a bit of a moot point. I just know some knucklehead who’s in the public eye right now will be forced to step out of it once they say something ignant about the man.
To take the big picture view, I’m amazed at how big a deal Black homophobia is becoming in the larger culture. Whole political agendas are built around it. Fairly or not, homophobia is becoming a “Black thing”. Briefly, I think the whole issues around it have to do with how we equate masculinity with power. Black people are so afraid, rightly, of Black men lacking power that there’s this whole tendency to be hypermasculine as a way of resistance to power, with the list of attendant sins to go along with it. To be gay means to be willing to (at least theoretically, because a gay top functions the same as a straight dude but for their targets) submit to a man. That’s why you see women on here talking about not messing with a gay dude. They don’t want to deal with someone who is willing to give up power in such an intimate setting.
Maybe one day, when the existence of Black people in America is secure, we’ll come off the disproportionate homophobia. However, what we’re seeing is a not a disease but a symptom of a larger issue.
Black “homophobia’ is no bigger than anyone else’s. Were just convenient scapegoats. As usual. Hip Hop just speaks openly, because they aren’t cowed by the mainstream media. That is their position in society. Always has been. I think its a good thing. There is a whole lot of bs contained in the gay agenda. We need people who ask real questions and speak common sense. Don’t drink the kool aid.
What are those questions? What’s that common sense? Do tell.
Please don’t get me started. But in short, I think common sense and life experience tells you that sexuality is fluid. Everybody who has attractions, has sex with same gender or even lives a gay lifestyle wasn’t born gay. People can and do change. All the time. It’s not analogous with race. Not by a longshot. And finding certain acts (i.e.bukakke) disgusting or wrong doesn’t equal hate for the people who do them.
I will say this. You’re right that sexual orientation is different from race, much the same as height is different from weight. Also, it’s your right to find gay sex disgusting. Heck, it doesn’t do a lot for me either, hence the whole straight thing.
My thing is that the second you restrict the rights and liberties of people based not on actual harm to life, liberty and property but on personal taste, it is immoral. Once you start down that path, you can justify a lot of stuff. If you think about it, a lot of racism boils down to personal taste. If I can stop gay people from doing something I find disgusting, what’s to stop someone else from restricting my actions because they find something I do disgusting? What’s the limit?
Who said anything about restricting rights? What is wrong with you?! Why can’t you analyze a point without assuming other beliefs? Are you brain damaged?
I asked for tough questions and common sense. You’ve given me innuendo. Give me some facts to analyze, and I’ll do that. Be clear in what you say.
Reading is fundamental.
“There is a whole lot of bs contained in the gay agenda.” Such as?
I actually answered this, but a couple of my comments are in moderation. Don’t know why, tho.
+1
+3 stripes
WC get’s the +1
WC, I don’t agree with you on this. Blacks definitely have a bigger problem with people being gay. Whole congregations have left their pastors if dude came out for gay marriage.
Black people’s relationship with homosexuality is far more nuanced than people give it credit for. For example, there is far more “I don’t agree with the lifestyle, but they should be able to live their lives” in Black homophobes than white ones. White homophobic people make it their life’s mission to make sure gay people don’t have access to anything in life by making concentrated efforts to send people to straight correction camps and voting in politicians based on the fact that they too are homophobic will do everything they can do make sure gay people’s lives suck.
If a pastor comes out in favor of gay marriage, he’s no longer preaching the gospel as written. He has changed the doctrine of the church. He decided to ignore the parts that say homosexuality is a sin. People who believe what the bible says about it would be right in leaving. Because their pastor cannot lead them if they fundamentally disagree with his, or her interpretation of the gospel. Its not about race, its about religion.
If you actually want to pay attention to the original Greek of the New Testament, it says nothing about homosexuality, good, bad or indifferent. The gay stuff was thrown in thanks to a mistranslation. The Old Testament is a different story, but the implications are definitely up for debate with broad, narrow and in-between interpretations.
Also, there are a lot of negroes that are homophobic that haven’t seen a church since a church saw them. What explains them?
They don’t need an explanation, just like the black people who believe the bible’s traditional translation don’t need an explanation or justification. People who believe homosexuality is wrong, an abomination or a sin don’t need an explanation. It is a different opinion. That’s it. If someone doesn’t like that, they’re gonna have to get over it.
Why can’t a Pastor support gay marriage, and at the same time preach the gospel “as it was written”? There are scores of teachers who don’t believe that U.S. history followed the course of development that is written about is school history books, but still following along with and teach the curriculum “as it was written” to their students on a daily basis, delivering the message they were taught to deliver. Why is a Pastor any different? Just as you say you can think the act disgusting while not hating the person, cannot a Pastor support the rights of his fellow Americans to marry who they want, because it is the right they were born with as a human and an American, while still not believing that two people of the same gender shouldn’t sleep with one another (I mean, that’s what this boils down to, sex)?
Oh, that’s an easy one. You don’t have to interpret anything or even get past the first page of the Bible. Adam. Eve
I don’t think what we have in Black America is “homophobia” in it’s truest sense. There are few people that are actually afraid of homosexuals. There are some people who don’t care to hang around homosexual men. I know there are homosexual men in my group of friends who haven’t come out. Like I’ve known them 10-15 years and they’ve never had a chick. They’ve always had “friends”. Bringing “friends” to house parties or whatever. But with men, I can’t speak for women, homosexuality is deviant in that it involves anal sex. Not only the anal sex part but with another man. There’s something disgusting about that. Dodoo. Also, I wouldn’t mind homosexual men if not for the queens in their camp. The act of trying to “out-womaning” women. Wearing lipstick, halter tops, and high heels speaks to an unnatural state of socialization. Love who you want to love but purposefully acting like the other gender is wack to me.
The “queens” can be like the ghetto ratchets to black people in the sense that they are an embarrassment to the community. I have gay friends who can not stand queens.
+1. Every community has its group of idiots. Gay people are no exception to the rule.
seriously, why is that, does it make anyone more comfortable? it doesn’t make you less gay/lesbian, if you act like you are more comfortable as the opposite sex. It makes you seem confused, like you were almost “transgender”, but not quite.
My first experience with a flamboyant queen was in DC when I first came to America. I literally started hyperventilating.
Lemme pause this real quick. By experience I meant first time seeing one.
Continue.
“Lemme pause this real quick. By experience I meant first time seeing one.”
BOL! I fell out my chair on this one hahaha
“The act of trying to “out-womaning†women. Wearing lipstick, halter tops, and high heels speaks to an unnatural state of socialization. Love who you want to love but purposefully acting like the other gender is wack to me.”
That and dookie love, I just can’t
……..starts dating new guy, and as we get to know each other, past relationships, sexual history comes up……so are you strictly hetero? Have you always been? Oh wow really? I can appreciate your honesty……..I’m going to have to pass on dessert.
I haven’t read Frank’s letter, but Johnny Gill never came out, but every time I hear his latest dandy In the Mood, I just feel some sorta way. And the back up singer echos Eddie Murphy. maybe it’s me, but it makes me feel the opposite of sexy no matter how many chicks they smanged, married, or knocked up.
Frank will be fine, b/c folks in his community will have his back regardless. Everyone knows that gay support means big $$$
Folks should be honest about who they are. Maybe more people will just live in their truth and give others a choice.
Todd, I agree with you on this.
Ewww Todd, you did that! Very provocative notion my friend. Never thought about it that way.
Call it what you want, but I immediately decided to delete the song “Thinking About You” from my iTunes library. The whole idea of him potentially singing about man just killed it for me. I have nothing against the LGBT community, I just don’t agree with nor understand their lifestyle.
Hey, I have no issue with that. You are required to like the man’s music because he’s gay. Ya just can’t lynch him.
Being that you don’t want to lynch the man, IDGAF.
*aren’t required. My bad.
Yeah, no lynching going on around here. I actually still like the song…just don’t want to hear him sing it. I prefer Tori Kelly’s version on youtube.
1) I don’t give a damn about his sexuality. 2) We talk about homophobia with guys, but it has always been the ladies who determine if an artist goes platinum plus or its equivalent in the age of downloading . Asking about the effect of homophobic men on his career is like asking about the effect of Ninjas on Justin Bieber’s career.If the women accept you, you’re good.
Frank Ocean and Christopher “Tricky” Stewart are not the same person. Google, man. Google.
i dont remember ever saying they were. Frank Ocean’s real name is Christopher “Lonny” Breaux. I said that Frank Ocean was brough to Def Jam by Christopher “Tricky” Stewart.
Read, man. Read.
Your quote was mixed- (he was signed to Def Jam under his birth name Christopher Lonnie Breaux some years ago under Christopher “Tricky†Stewart of The-Dream fame)- You kind of mixed them together then both of their names are Christopher so it seems like he had two aliases.
ok. i’ll concede that it could be confusing.
“But it seems like a significant number of women take issue with bi-sexual men.”
well it’s probably because men are the ones to define what normal sexuality is, and to play both sides of the fence flies in the face of that. and anal sex (regardless of hetero vs homo) is riskier sex (esp if unprotected) and if he’s not being honest, that has serious health (and emotional) risks. i want to know about the girlfriend in this scenario. did she know?
i’ve had an ex come back to tell me that he is now gay. there was nothing about our dealings that made me think that he was, and while it would be easy for me to take it personal and take a hit on my self esteem – it didn’t. but it COULD have.
bi-sexuality in men is frowned upon EQUALLY by men AND women. i think it’s unfair to say that just women take issue with it. bi-sexuality in women is deemed sexy and is thoroughly encouraged (even if it’s not real).
just like the Oreo pride cookie, there is going to be vocal and adamant boycotters (and based on my facebook and twitter, his fans were more male than female before this announcement, his fan base stands to be more female than male afterwards.), but if it proves to be financially costly remains to be seen.
Men do control the way sexuality is perceived. That’s the truth.
Ah the lips are back. I don’t think it is fair to say that either sex alone controls how sexuality is perceived. Both sexes appeal to the perceived wants of the opposite sex and both sexes are rigid in defining gender roles. Women are just as, if not more punitive than men towards people who violate social norms.
LOL. Sup Meech!
I have to respectfully disagree with you. This has been and continues to be a patriarchal world. Women don’t set the rules on most institutions – including sexual.
Why do you think so many chicks when they are drunk, decide to start kissing on other females in front of men? Because they (men) think it’s hot and women want to be wanted.
That being said, women have rules and standards without a doubt – but stand by my original statement.
Yes, there are women playing anti-gay reggae chunes right now, yelling battybwoy haffi dead – but in this particular discussion (about FO specifically) – it’s not what i’m seeing in my particular networks. it’s mainly the men dem.
Ehh… I disagree with you. I’ve witnessed girls (who claim to be straight) kissing other girls while drunk or otherwise and 85% of the time there weren’t men in sight.
Sexuality is more complex than that. Attraction is more complex than many of you give it credit for. People like who they like. If a girl decides to kiss a girl, majority of the time it’s for her own pleasure. Not tangent onlookers. Same for men.
Stop giving alcohol and social excuses credit for desires you’re not willing to flesh out.
ITA by society standards anyway KB
I don’t care if you like men. Just don’t start acting and dressing like a woman.
“Back to the music industry for a second. Imagine if you found out that Teddy Pendergrass was gay. . I realize that Frank Ocean is neither of those artists. His music isn’t driven by his virility or masculinity. People have long suspected Johnny Gill of being gay and his biggest songs are clear-cut man-on-woman love songs. But would you feel lied to if you found out definitively?”
We already know the rumors about Teddy, Luther, Johnny and many, many others.
Does that change the fact that they sung/wrote some of my favorite songs? No.
Lied to? Why?Those folks, don’t owe me a thing as far as disclosing their personal lives.
Not a huge Frank Ocean fan, never was. I think “Novocane” was decent, didn’t make it through the rest of the mixtape. I always skip over “Made In America” because I found myself laughing whenever he sung “sweet baby Jesus” I just laughed again right now.
However, reading his letter the other day I truly felt for the dude. As I mentioned on twitter, most of us can understand the pain of unrequited love and how that can tear at your well being. Funny—I took that away from his letter more than the fact that he was talking about his love for a man.
Personally, just swapping the gender of the subject of a love song wouldn’t resonate with me because I couldn’t relate and the feelings that it conjured wouldn’t be, um, intimate. Not homophobia, but it just wouldn’t click. But If he could make me understand and relate to an experience that is inherently foreign to me by framing it within the greater context of the human experience in his songs then that would be true artistry. But that’s just how it would affect me.
The effect it has on his career depends on how he spins it. He could lose mainstream appeal dealing with a subject matter that the masses don’t wont to hear about and most cant relate to. Pop music always has and always will appeal to the lowest common denominator. Hence, “popular” music. But he can gain a lot of crossover followers if he appeals to the what I like to call “artistically bourgeoisie” crowd that is always looking for the new trendy artist with relative non-mainstream obscurity and “artistic purity”. He kind of fits that mold already and he really is doing something brave and original in an industry where that rarely happens, especially with the people that try really hard to be cutting edge and original. He cold be the next soccer or sustainable grits.
A lot of people on here are saying how the content should be all that matters which is true but with the music that is out today, we know this isn’t the case. Whatever this does to his career, it will have an impact. Maybe Kanye won’t care that he is hanging out with Frank but how many straight male black artist want to be associated with the openly gay guy? Let’s be honest here, with the way the tabloids try to make everyone gay, that would ruin a black man’s reputation. No man wants his sexuality questioned bc that would make him a punk. Not saying that I agree with those sentiments but they are there.
Also, as I alluded to my question above, if you can’t relate to the lyrics, why would you buy the album or support the artist? I am asking real questions here.
I don’t care about his sexuality but to say that this won’t impact his career somewhat negatively, is us sleeping in la la land. The black community does not handle black gay men very well. And seeing as how he is in the R&B business…I just don’t know.
More props to him and maybe I am just being too pessimistic and not optimistic enough that our community has come a long way on accepting homosexuals.
Only the youth has gotten further past the stigma of what being gay means. Adults on the other hand….suck at it. Can’t leave the past alone, can’t let the soul-sucking, heart-wrenching hate for the unknown that our parents and forefathers grew up with. So we can’t move past all of it until either all old people die or young people get their crap together, and I’m not holding my breath for either one.
I can see how some dudes in hip-hop would have an issue hanging with Frank Ocean after this. Truth is a lot of them wouldn’t want to spend too much time around a R&B artist in general because it’s not considered hard. We’ll see how this makes a difference in the long run.
(he was signed to Def Jam under his birth name Christopher Lonnie Breaux some years ago under Christopher “Tricky†Stewart of The-Dream fame)- You kind of mixed them together then both of their names are Christopher so it seems like he had two aliases.
I’ll make this statement as blunt as possible.
If people can make Chocolate Factory one of R.Kelly’s best selling albums of all time after peeing on a minor, surely any R&B artist coming out the closet can be supported without a hitch from their fan base. It’s not that serious, the problem is US. We hold celebrities on too high of a pedestal and completey forget that they are fumbling their way through life just as we are, only difference is the economically and artistically different lifestyle that have to live with.
+100000000000
I read an article a few months ago about the community of displaced black gay youth in Chicago. Aside from being kicked out of their homes, they were also unwanted in Boystown (Chicago’s gay community comprised mainly of 30-40 something white males). These kids now take part in an underground society where they reside in “houses” (usually named after a fashion label) and are led by by “House Mothers” (older black gay men).
I hope Frank Ocean becomes a role model for these boys – a glimmer of hope that you can achieve mainstream success. I think that speculation about his career aside, he put the spotlight on a very important conversation: being a high-profile BLACK homosexual in modern society.
I just hope that people purchase the album legitimitely and not on bootleg. As with anything in the music industry – if what you stand for doesn’t equate to record sales, you’re out. Period.
One more thing: Ricky Martin came out of the closet 20+ years into his career. He’s since fallen off. Why? Yes, there is rampant homophobia in the Hispanic community, but more importantly this: People don’t like being lied to. They would rather know whether or not they’ll mess with you from the beginning. Some people will not mess with Frank Ocean post-announcement but some people will. I think Frank’s announcement was really brave… and necessary.
well considering he came out WELL after the height of his popularity might have MORE to do with it.
there were plenty of women throwing panties at him – and i doubt any of them truly felt betrayed or like they had been lied to.
i just chalked it up to the label knowing the audience/market and forcing the artist to choose between making money or not.
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ this
I know what you’re speaking about. In NYC, the gay homeless population is 80% Black and Latino in a city where Blacks and Latinos make up 55%. It’s not good for gay kids on the streets. The Ball scene (which is what you referred to) is a positive thing, but not everyone even latches onto that. It’s stuff like that going on, and being held at arm’s length but much (though fairly not all) of the Gay Establishment, that pisses me the f*ck off. You say you care about gay liberation when you spend more energy on letting gay people with money getting married as opposed to helping your own off the streets? This isn’t against gay marriage, but still, what good is a marriage to a starving teenager on the street?
Yup. It’s just one of the litany of examples of why I don’t f#ck with or endorse white lead movements because they’re never really concerned about anyone else except themselves regardless of any discrimination or oppression they face. Everything must be accepted and done based on their values or else. It’s why the only time Blacks and Latin@s come up with that movement is for HIV/AIDS advertisements.
So he comes out of the closet the same month his Album comes out ?
Frank will be fine. Black people who chose to no longer support him will not make or break him. He was on tour with coldplay before all this, so his fan base is already much larger than hip hop. Women will still love him and if any man could sell bi-sexuality as acceptable in the black community, (atleast amongst the younger generation) it will be him.
+1
Ultimately, who cares. You don’t see any other community running around like chickens with their heads cut off when their members come out. I’m all about being who you are and not living a lie. I would much rather all parties know exactly who they are dealing with. At the end of the day, he ain’t diddling you ….so who cares. Go Frank!
I still don’t get where this man “came out”?! He penned a letter that talks about falling in love, and the rejection that followed. Maybe I am biased (though I don’t think that’s the right term, but I don’t have a superiority complex so I don’t feel the term “evolved” is right either) because I to lead and “alternative lifestyle” *lookin at P sideways for that*. All Frank said what that he fell in love with someone who happend to be a man. He fell in love with a mind, heart and soul, not a gender; it just so happens that the mind, heart and soul he feel in love with came in the form of a man. Had that persona come in the form of a woman, we wouldnt’ be talkin about this. Is what he did groundbreaking? Yes! But for me, it’s only groundbreaking because of the stigma surrounding gay people, the whole idea of the closet, and the way in which gay, lesbian and/or bi celebrities have been coming out, through very public and almost press conference like admissions. Frank chose to do it in a way that was more about the human experience of love, and how it affect him. So, he broke ground because we will see alot more of that in the coming years from other celebs who want to let their fans really know the source of their feelings.
That he did it to ward off the speculation that would have come with the dropping of the album is cool, but I love him even more because he’s allowed his fans something that I, for one, dont’ get enough with music artists nowadays; the real intimacy of a closeness with him. He’s talking to us as if we’re close friends, sharing painfully personal secrets. He didn’t have to, but he did, and I love him all the more for it. It’s to have good music, catchy tunes, songs to fall in love to, make babies to, sing in the shower to, and that’s what we get with most music. But it’s rare the artist who is able to cross space and take so much in from their fans, and share so much back with them, that it elevates the relationship to artist/friends versus artist/fans.
I really don’t give a flying flag what his orientation is. Frank Ocean makes great music, period.
Even if he was, i feel like nobody can say $#!t if they riding around listening to Rick Ross. Half of hip-hop is lying.
At least homeboy did what he felt like he had to do to preserve his art. If he did to it make a point, kudos to that too!
Even if he was, i feel like nobody can say $#!t if they riding around listening to Rick Ross. Half of hip-hop is lying.
+1000000000000000000000000000000000
I beeeeeeeeeeeeeeeen knew this dude played for the same team. Not into him musically though. like so many of these new folk
I”m not really all that impressed.
George Michael on the other hand is and will always be one of my fav artists
His song writing alone, check one of my favs “Cowboys and Angels” let alone arrangement etc.
I could go down the list but I am trying to stick to folks that are out. LOL btw in my world bi is ghey who may happens to still have sex with the opposite sex too .
sometimes the effect really doesn’t matter. Sometimes you have to just say it. For yourself.
and this!!!!
New Frank Ocean : http://soundcloud.com/frank-ocean/sweet-life
That’s ill! Done debatin…nuff said.
Thanks Malik!
I would choose to believe that FO being bisexual or gay will not have negative impact on his $. Quiet the opposite, he will be rolling in the dough and a boost to his career.
My auntie is looking for his music just out of curiousity. She heard about FO on NPR! So, FO is “winning!”
A) I’m hella late on this.
B) I mostly like this post…real questions….and I like plenty of the responses.
But C) a serious question: if you already established that the letter is about love and humanity, and you were eventually going to ask forgiveness fort, why even call it “alternative lifestyle?”. The very thing the letter reminds us is that love is universal and normed us on that idea alone-thus, alternative isn’t applicable.
I’m just wondering, BECUASE your use of it and immediate acknowledgement that it was wrong undermined the integrity present in much of the rest of the post….why’d u make that choice? Pure curiosity here…
i knew it wasnt the right choice. i dont think it undermines the integrity of the post. but you feel how you feel. that’s fine. i called it that b/c well, regardless of how you personally feel, it is a deviance from the norm. i think that we can agree that the norm is male and female relationships. i dont think im offbase with that.
I think it is interesting that this bro, (moderator of this site) supports another Black man professing his love of another man, but Black men continue to be misogynistic towards Black women on the regular, and rarely profess love of Black women publicly. I guess this explains the high rate of homosexuality among you (Black men) in Atlanta, DC and Oakland. This is sick, and will continue to contribute to the downfall of the Black community and Black manhood. I guess that is why you all as a group of men are the weakest. I guess then really, you can’t even be called men.
this comment would make sense if you didn’t make the most ridiculous parallel ever. you took my post and my support and then compared it to universal misogyny. while we definitely have issues, both of the writers for this site have spoken about loving black women. wtf are you talking about is my main question basically.
Ummm…..Kola Boof is that you girl??
When I read the letter Frank Ocean wrote, I was incredibly moved. I have not seen a love situation so well written from my generation (I am 25). I started to read the letter looking for the hint at his sexuality and finished the letter feeling connected to Frank’s humanity.
I am not overly concerned about whether this will hurt Frank Ocean. We are beginning to enter a strange new world where this will begin to matter less and less.
Kola Boof is that you girl??