If you frequent this site you know I went to Morehouse and love my alma mater dearly.
However, this is some bullsh*t.
(By the way, I really didn’t mean to do two HBCU posts in a row. I know how some of you folks feel about the HBCUs around here.)
Apparently, the higher ups and our new President, Dr. Howard Franklin, feel the need to ensure that the image of the Morehouse Man and the reality of the Morehouse Man are one and the same. To wit:
“Appropriate Attire Policy”. Based on Dr. Franklin’s conceptualization on the Renaissance Man, specifically his expectation of the “well-dressed” man of Morehouse, the policy will set a campus-wide standard for student’s attire.
The policy outlines 11 expectations pertaining to what students should not wear while on campus. Instead of requiring certain articles of clothing, as a typical dress code would, the policy details those articles of clothing deemed unacceptable for students. Some of the expectations discussed in the policy include to prohibit wearing “sagging” pants, women’s clothing, and headwear.
Now slap me silly and call me Susan J. Elmo, but I’m really curious about this need to outlaw women’s clothing. Granted its been years since I was at the ‘House but I do not remember anybody actually walking around looking like Lady Gaga or anything. But hey, you never know with these kids nowadays.
Anyway, I have a beef with this new policy on a principle level. For one, college is a time for self-expression and self-discovery. Attempting to limit the scope of one’s dress seems kind of counterproductive to what college is all about. For b, you can put lipstick on a pig, but it’s still a pig. We’ll get back to that one in a minute though.
Forget about the fact that it’s Morehouse for a second. The fact that any school college or university would take it upon itself to limit the clothing choices of its student body is kind of troubling to me. To me, it assumes that they have no concept of what is appropriate or that a bunch of 18 to 22 year olds who are learning about life should be forced to view themselves through only one lens. While I can understand the disdain for sagging pants, I think that its a fad and trend of the culture right now. Fads end and when folks get older and start looking for jobs, they come to their senses and pull their pants up. It happens to most of us reading Black men. We all eventually learn to know better.
But I also have an issue with this whole “image” thing that we in the Black community are so obsessed with. The reason you incorporate a dress code is so that these men can uphold one particular image of what a Morehouse Man should be. The great thing about Morehouse and one reason it’s so successful and well-known is because of the variety of individuals who’ve come out of Morehouse. And all that starts with things as insignificant as establishing your own identity through dress early on in life. Catering to this “image” is putting the school above the individual when its the accomplishments of the individuals that have placed Morehouse at the pinnacle of the Black community in the first place.
Plus, these are grown ass men that you’re telling how to dress. On just a surface level, what does that say about the quality of the individuals you’re bringing in that you feel a need to explicitly tell them what they cannot wear on campus? Not really giving them much credit, are they?
But it all comes back to image. To the old vanguard, there is this pristine image of a Morehouse Man and the new administration wants to make sure that the current crop looks the part at all times, which is great, but once again, you can put a thug in a suit, but then all you have is a thug in a suit. Morehouse is a school, much like other HBCUs that builds character and we all grow by being at those schools. Attempting to limit something like clothing and individual style (face it, that’s what dress codes do, they limit styles for certain people) does nothing but stifle growth.
Anyway, I’ve said my peace and I’m a grown ass man who doesn’t go there anymore. But my free-dressing compadres of the VSB, what are your thoughts on this, on a larger scale? Does it seem necessary to have to provide a dress code to grown men? Is it reasonable? Or is this just more Black pandering to an “image” as opposed to the reality?
Say you, say me.
What say you?
-VSB P aka THE ARSONIST aka TANGLE JIG P aka GIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIRL, HE A 3
I don’t see what the big deal is. It’s a private college. Therefore, they can make rules as they see fit. If the dudes don’t like it, they can go elsewhere. But I bet Morehouse won’t suffer a lower enrollment. Offices have dress codes because, contrary to popular belief, a lot of people DO NOT know how to dress in a professional setting.
My sources–people currently enrolled in Morehouse and Spelman–tell me that the one rule about clothes for women is in response to a trend that I first saw (close up) on Real Housewives of Atl. (Oh and don’t act like you’ve never watched.) I can’t think of the dude’s name but he’s known for showing shoulder, stuffing his stubby legs into girl’s skinny jeans and pumps. And you know how conservative we Black folks are.
@Ms. Smart,
Wow.
I’ve never seen an episode of Real Housewives of Anything. My basic
bootlegcable doesn’t go to that channel. This sounds like something I’m probably glad to have missed, though.@Maximillian, I can’t find a picture of him and his name escapes me right now. But I hear that it’s becoming quite a trend down there.
@Ms. Smart, Yes! his name is Derek J and unfortunately the women’s clothing is necessary lol. During my time at CAU I saw a few dudes at both institutions sashaying around campus with designer handbags, pumps, weaves (yes like B.SCOTT if anyone knows who that is) and things of that nature. It gets a lil ridiculous on the promenade when dudes can walk better in their stilettos than us girls!!
@GEELA,
Oh wow.
I’ve seen that Derek J dude ’round the blogsphere, I didn’t realize this was a rampant trend down in the ATL.
Ouch.
It’s not. I don’t recall ever seeing dudes walking around here in heels, but then again I don’t run in circles where that would be tolerated.
@AkShone, I don’t think the kids I know who are down there ‘run’ in those circles either. However, they have observed the very behaviors that probably prompted the administration to take drastic measures.
@AkShone,
Thank you for clearing that up.
@AkShone, yeah, i’m with you. i know some pretty gay people in Atlanta (and DC for that matter and its still rarely i see dudes walking around in women’s clothing…well, blatant women’s clothing like fishnets, heels, and them potato sack dresses), and they dress pretty much like rappers do nowadays – tight clothes that are really colorful.
@Ms. Smart, ****handclaps**** I know exactly who you are talking about.
@Ms. Smart, It’s a private college. Therefore, they can make rules as they see fit.
while i see what you mean, i think its a bit shortsighted. folks pay their good money for all of those individuals to have jobs there. and to me its a two way street, the school is great b/c of the students, and the students are great b/c of the school. to be like, them ninjas can just go elsewhere is to deprive itself of some of the very reasons that morehouse is even worth mentioning. just go make Hampton great…they even got white girls as queens.
and i’ve only seen one episode of RHOA. and for the longest time, i had been trying to figure out just why in the f*ck folks kept saying, “who gon’ check me boo?” i was so confused until my girl enlightened me that it came from that show.
so yeah. i don’t really watch. when folks said that AJ died, i thought they were talking about Predator AJ from 106 & Park.
@Ms. Smart,
And you know how conservative we Black folks are.
Oh yeah, as conservative as they come (even politically) and will never admit it.
Women’s clothing? I would have had major issues if this was my school and they enforced a dress code. Everyone has their own style and should be allowed to express it. Every Morehouse student I’ve ever met is well-dressed so I really wonder if it’s needed. Wonder what happens if it isn’t followed?
@Leila, i really wonder who the hell is running around school in a dress? i aint saying it aint possible. but when i was there, while folks got pretty liberal with their clothing, nobody was ever running around in drag.
@Panama Jackson,
Yeah, they’re not tryna save the “decorum” by stopping people from actually dressing like women with beards. They’re trying to dictate taste which is an obscene waste of time and effort.
No purses? You know how many straight, prof’l, non-black men in NY walk around with “murses”? Prof’l attire deez.
@Me fail english?,
‘No purses? You know how many straight, prof’l, non-black men in NY walk around with “murses”? Prof’l attire deez.’
lol this reminds my of Eben Gregory aka “The Jewelry Man”. He always making fun of celebrities for carrying man bags. he has a whole series of disses based on it. Man guys need to carry man bags this days so much technical crap to carry around, smart phones, mini laptops, digital cams, and foundation. what people expect them to do?
@Me fail english
“They’re trying to dictate taste which is an obscene waste of time and effort.”
this sums up my sentiments perfectly, before I could even fully articulate them. i don’t know the stats, but how many black men graduate from high school and matriculate to college? in Atlanta? New Orleans? DC? Any fuggin where for that matter. and this is what the new leadership chooses to focus on?
I understand “upholding an ideal,” but it’s misguided in my opinion. I would equate it to perpetuating standing traditions in a historic black church. while folx are busy putting on a production and “having church,” the very model of the Church that Christ gave THROUGH his ministry TOWARDS THE UNCHURCHED is being ignored so people can feel good about hearing the choir ‘sang’ and gettin a ‘good word,’ that’s forgotten as soon as the mimosas start flowin at brunch.
the depth and evolution of learning that should characterize the institution of education is being replaced by the surface level concern of image.
fugg what they wearin. what they learnin????? and how are they contribute to society once they leave??
@Panama Jackson, Its not rly dress per se, its high heels, low cut shirts as if they have cleavage, purses and hair scarves
But P., wait!
“you can put a thug in a suit, but then all you have is…”
A) a thug in a suit.
B) a defendant.
C) a CEO.
D) all of the above.
I think we could use more CEOs. Maybe. Okay, maybe that’s bad logic. But a dress code? Can we save Morris Brown first? Okay, that may be illogical too.
There are so many questions though. Is there an ‘acceptable sag line,’ or does everyone have to do an Urkel? No headwear? some Muslims, Sunnis, Rastas and Braves fans may be offended. This sounds like a can of worms to me.
@Maximillian, Is the opposite of sagging an Urkel?????
No, it’s not..What’s wrong with wearing your pants on the natural waistline?
@Nicki Sunshine,
What’s wrong with getting an education regardless of how you wear your pants?
@Monk,
…word.
@Monk, It’s not the education they are emphasizing here, they want people to LOOK professional.
@Nicki Sunshine, Not only that, but when I was *cough* younger *cough*, I observed that when I went to parties where people had to dress up, they were less likely to ‘cut a fool’. Not only that, but dressing like an upstanding gentleman is HAWT. But I wonder some of the backlash is a result of the people not wanting these boys, many of which have been accused of ‘acting white’ because they were smart, to also ‘dress white’. They don’t get to express themselves through their clothing. Translation: They don’t get to keep it real. Translation: They don’t get to dress Black…and we all know Black means ghetto/hood.
@Ms. Smart,
You’re reaching here. I went to school with plenty of white boys who sagged their pants, wore flip flops, put their feet up in class and had pornographic images on their t-shirts. I would oppose a dress code for them, the same as I would at Morehouse.
@Me fail english?, And those white boys are sagging why? Where’d they learn it from? Hip-hop=Black.
@Ms. Smart,
Not really. Some of those dudes just looked like sloppy grunge or surfer boy types. Some of em just didnt have belts. And what of the flip flops. And why would I defend a white man’s desire to “dress black” as you put it? Further, you can replace sagging jeans with purple hair, mohawks, rundown sneakers or whatever else. My point was I oppose college campus dress codes in gen’l. Not because I think Nashawn is gonna come back Braxton P. Hartnebrig.
You think college aged white men walk around campus looking like they’re applying for jobs? What does any of this have to do with the price of tea in China?
@Nicki Sunshine,
They want people to LOOK professional but at the cost of discriminating against them because of how they dress. Everybody doesn’t desire to go into a profession where they have to dress up everyday. Besides, we’re just talking about going to class, eating in the cafe, etc., NOT actually working a job. Big difference. Just because one chooses to dress a certain way does not imply that they don’t know how to dress appropriately for certain circumstances. Campus, a place where a lot of students live, shouldn’t be held to the same standard as say a formal ceremony.
@Ms. Smart: That is exactly what they told us at my school and at my former job!
@Monk:
You don’t have to wear dress pants in order to not dress up.
You can still wear jeans, just dont’ sag them.
@Monk,
You can’t tell me that dressing the part of success does not enhance your overall outlook on the day and your environment. It is a proven study. The way you dress determines your days outlook and productivity. When did it become unfashionable to pull your effen pants up?
@Ms. Johnson,
Well I’ll tell you that all day in addition to calling BS on the study.
I used to work for THREE companies where we wore jeans everyday. Flip flops, Uggs if you’d like. They were some of the most dynamic, creative and successful brands in their fields. If you need to wear a suit to get ideas or be motivated to do your job, so be it. No reason to instate rules to the rest of us.
@Ms. Johnson, i think what folks are missing is that the dress code doesn’t tell folks what to wear, it’s telling people what NOT to wear. its not saying wear a suit, its saying do not wear this other stuff. i’d have less of an issue if they came up with some uniform standard, i dont care if you paint all day or are in business, this is what you rock then basically singling out certain behaviors from certain students they didnt like and decide to remove them.
@Panama Jackson,
Good point. They dont want folks to look prof’l. If that was the case they would’ve banned any graphic tees, sweats, etc. They just dont want you to wear tunics and sunglasses to graduation. Huh?
@Ms. Johnson,
I know people that dress in suits and “professional” attire and play around on facebook and verysmartbrothas.com ALL day. That doesn’t exactly speaks of productivity if you ask me.
No offense to this insightful website of course
@Nicki Sunshine,
I can’t wear my pants on my natural waist line because my aunt has a very large arse, and it was hereditarily passed unto myself, and not my sister. Go fig. Therefore I run into the problem of having a large posterior and thighs and a smaller waist. Either I buy small and look like Kanye, or I buy large and run the risk of extra folds between belt loops when I have to buckle my belt tight…
So My pants never come above the suprailliac crest. Sue me. I HAVE a good fookin job. Tailored suits are what I wear to bidniss meetings, and I get my khakis cut right as well. But when I’m just chillin, my jeans are what they are…
But I have never sagged my pants down to my fooking knees. I’ve never seen why you’d want to do that and have to walk like a duck. It’s very disturbing…
@Dante_Alexander, But you don’t chill in class.
@Nicki Sunshine,
I do. I did. whatever.
I HATE dressing up, and it makes me very uncomfortable. I do it at my job because I have to, not because it makes me do my job any better, despite what pundits may think.
I’ll be DAMNED if I’mma be uncomfortable in class. Not. Gonna. Happen.
Call it what you want, but the fact that I could rock sweats and a hoodie to class at 8 AM was dope.
@Nicki Sunshine,
Actually, we had a very relaxed style of learning at my school. Especially in the smaller classes. Real roundtable discussions with people eating, drinking, walking around the room and all. As long as we didnt stray far from the topic of discussion my profs encouraged it.
@Nicki Sunshine, b/c if ninjas actually did that, with how strange these jeans are cut nowadays, nobody’d be having babies.
@Panama Jackson, LMAO.
@Maximillian,
“This sounds like a can of worms to me.”
Exactly. I think this is the part that’s going over heads like airplanes.
Seems like the same rationale that some firms give for not allowing black women to wear “ethnic” hair (naturals, locks, twists etc.) no matter how neat. Yeah, they can go work elsewhere, but why are you surprised that at some point somebody’s gonna stand up and say “eff this”?
This sounds like Morehouse is fighting back against certain “types” of young Black men. Perhaps the ones who wear sagging pants…..and womens clothing. If you know what I mean.
@Liz, That’s what it looks like.
@Liz, I was told on another site by either a current student or alum that my hbcu is not like there’s and they have a “brand” to uphold. I thought well damn, LOL. if thats what it is, do what you do.
@Reecie, that’s that good ole Morehouse mystique.
by the way, my freshman year i had to sign an actual paper saying that my actions, de-mystified the morehouse mystique. i still get a kick out of that to this day.
(had chicks in the room past curfew – my RA ACTUALLY called campus police on me and my roommate instead of just telling us to put them out and handling it in house…the ACTUAL CAMPUS POLICE..over women. the cops were like, “i cant believe he called us for this sh*t. “)
@Liz,
indeed, sounds like tongue-in-cheek homophobia.
Sometimes it’s necessary to have a dress code. I feel there is a time and place for everything. A lot of people don’t understand that so there has to be certain standards put in place. Besides white people are looking at us.
@Jeff, Besides white people are looking at us.
you’re absolutely right. they’re looking at us try to make them happy 24/7.
welcome and sh*t, btw.
@Jeff,
Was that white people are looking at us line serious?…Please tell me that was sarcasm?
@Jeff, Besides white people are looking at us
You watched that Wanda Sykes comedy thing on HBO didn’t you….LMAO
Did you go to Morehosue or Morehouse? And did either College teach spelling?
Inquiring minds wanna know. Hee, hee.
@Miss Patterson,
LOL! Before (like 2 weeks) I turn in my thesis proposal, I’m sending it to you!
@Miss Patterson, funny.
whether i went to morehouse or morehosue, you’ll still end up working for me one day so it doesn’t really matter.
shots.fired.
@Panama Jackson, naw i’ll pass. cuz you’ll probably make the check out to Miss Peterson, anyway.
@Miss Patterson, arsonist in training,
LMAO!
@Miss Patterson, arsonist in training,
LMFAO. It’s like Panama’s shots curved around Miss Patterson Angelina Jolie- style.
*daps Miss Patterson*
@Panama Jackson,
Wait…no “spell deez”?
@Cheekie, well i contemplated that, but i felt like spitting some of that good ole morehouse stereotypical assholishness.
I was just about to ask if this was “HBCUs Gone Wild” week.
Sounds like the president of Morehouse has been chatting with the president of my Alma Mater Hampton. Lol We have had a dress code forever. Actually the funny thing is that this year they changed the rules and became less strict. I mean I feel where you are coming from, but at the same time, we are dealing with a new breed. Its sad, but I am sure that they powers that be thought long and hard and realized that this new breed of Morehouse men need some
forcedcontrolguidance. I love well dressed men… yum!It wont destroy the school… You guys will be fine
hmmm, I feel like we need a little more time to edit our comments…
::walks away with head down and kicks rocks::
@Buxxy, you know, i almost entitled yesterday’s post about Hampton “HBCU’s Gone Wild”
and i know it won’t destroy the school. but i’m guessing every few years you can say you’re dealing with a new breed. do you constantly modify to ensure that the attire you dont want to see is removed?
part of my problem is this: there are clearly certain folks that they’re not targetting, be they gay, overly urban, whatever…they’re fine with that so there’s really no issue with how they’re dressing, but to exclude certain behaviors so that folks look like the image you want them have bothers me. morehouse will be there tomorrow, and i dont go there now so it really doesn’t matter. but in principle, i take issue with folks dictating on a whim what isnt acceptable…to whom?
@Panama Jackson,
Don’t worry, I will cover these issues in my dissertation lol. This week has given me at least 3 chapters. lol I am about to raise all types of hell in the HBCU circuit.
I see how this could really upset current students and stifle their creative attire, but nothing is sexier than a well-dressed, clean cut, slightly prep, Black man. Look how our youth dressed before the early 70′s. Check out how sharp the men were when they were doing sit-ins at the lunch counter and marching for civil rights- they were fresh. I assure you this will only add to the allure of an MC man within the AUC community. Nothing against my CAU brothas, of course.
@Miss Patterson,
I completely agree with your statement. I was just talking to my grandmother today, and told her I was slightly jealous of how they dressed in her day. They were ALWAYS on point!
@Ms. Johnson, well break out the tweed! lol.
you know, when you see those pics in black and white, everybody looks really well kept. check out them technicolor yearbooks. there was a lot of HAMness going on.
@Miss Patterson, Exactly!
@Miss Patterson, but nothing is sexier than a well-dressed, clean cut, slightly prep, Black man. Look how our youth dressed before the early 70’s.
to you.
everybody doesnt love that. some folks think its lame. whoopty do.
and let’s be real, excluding certain clothing choices isn’t going to increase the allure of a morehouse cat in the AUC. if dr. franklin’s plan works, nobody will notice any real difference b/w most morehouse men.
@Miss Patterson,
I see how this could really upset current students and stifle their creative attire, but nothing is sexier than a well-dressed, clean cut, slightly prep, Black man.
I agree wholeheartedly. But that doesn’t give an institution the right to force its students to dress a certain way. I prefer to see men w/out sagging jeans
and heels* but college isn’t the place where one must conform. Academic achievement is what is of importance.*They can go ahead and ban women’s clothing though; that is a bit much…
It’s a plot to make everyone conform.
Fight the power!!!
Let me stop…Really though, this is completely unnecessary. Your college years are a time for self expression. As long as those gentlemen are successfully pursuing degrees…whatever.
I have a feeling this is more about the young men whose style reflects hip-hop culture than it is about the guys wearing women’s clothes (although I’m sure there are enough there that caused them to be pointed out).
I can understand wanting the student body to reflect positively on the college, but that isn’t their job. Ppl are there to learn. Sagging jeans and stilettos don’t stop that (although I cannot say I’d appreciate seeing a man in heels).
Lord – I really enjoyed my lurking status, but I had a debate about this with one of myp eeps from a traditionally white institution.
Like Buxxy said – Hampton has had a dress code forever. Hell, in the ’70s the women set the admin building on fire so that the school could expand the dress code to allow them to wear pants. Bennett Belles (my aunt was one) had to wear hats and gloves when they went off campus. Howard – well, anything goes!
No, seriously, they’ve always been more liberal.
The reason why I understand (different from agree with) the dress code is two-fold: (1) As a former teacher, students now days truly don’t know what is appropriate and what is not.
(2) As much as I hate to say this, the Morehouse man is sometimes the only representation of a group of educated Black men that many of the corporations, etc. that recruit see. I see the dress code as furthering a positive image of the well-groomed student that contradicts stereotypes and prejudices.
I think that it’s inherent in HBCU culture to dress
. I’m headed back to Lurkville. . .
like you have some damn sense and home trainingnicely. When I went tohelllaw school right after graduating, I couldn’t believe what those people wore to class in a professional school because you never knew who was lurking in the hallways. Many firms would interview you right on the spot for positions (that’s how I got my first one) – and I think that’s what Morehouse is trying to get through the students’ heads. Presentation is everything. Sorry so long@AdrianainDC, Very good points. and co-sign!
@AdrianainDC,
LOL…I was getting ready to say the same thing! This is nothing new to Hamptonians . Shoot we couldn’t even go into the big caf if shorts were too short or if you had spaghetti stings tank tops on..no sir, you had to leave that loooonnggg line and troop yourself back up to S hall (Virginia Cleveland) and all those dang on steps and change. My roommate was FOREVER trying to buck the rules, lol..she learned by the 3rd time she had to do this.
But like someone else said, it’s a private institution with an awesome history. The students on campus are like advertising to parents who want to send the children to a “decent” college. You know how parents are, if they’re going to shell out the big bucks, they want the school to be what they want it to be. Administrators aren’t stupid…money and image are the bottom line, without endorsements and private grants there is no money, without money there is no image for a lot of HBCUs.
On the funny side though, they probably got freaked at seeing skinny jeans on young men, lol.
@Smiley Face,
“Administrators aren’t stupid…money and image”
Let’s keep it one hunnid. Morehouse’s rep speaks for itself. They have incredible success with their alumni in pretty much EVERY field I can think of. Nobody interested in the college or aware of their history was gonna see a drag queen on campus and say “Eff the powerful network and legacy! That boy gots on skinny jeans!”
It never stopped ppl from attending Princeton. It won’t stop folks from getting to Morehouse. Our people, though largely conservative
are not as conservative as the parents of prospective Princeton Douchy Tigersdeserve more credit than that.@Me fail english?,
Never said it would stop people from going. I said it’s about advertising. Half the people going to HBCUs (hell any prominent school) go because of a name, they don’t know jack shiggity about it’s history (or could care less, until they get there and still not even then) but they got the name proudly displayed on a bumper for all to see, that’s image. …they care about the pretty package.
@Smiley Face,
But who cares about the “pretty package” if it has no bearing on your enrollment? Why take strong action to change the advertising if it doesn’t change your results? That is stupid on the admins part in that it’s a waste of time and resources.
@Smiley Face,
Oh and if they’re so concerned with image they need to focus on the surrounding community. I was last on Morehouse’s campus in ’05 and if ever there was a reason to second guess sending my future son there, it had nothing to do with the Ru Paul doppleganger classmate and everything to do with whoever that was selling gold teefs by the gas station.
@Me fail english?,
Right! It’s a news story right now here in Atlanta about a Morehouse student who was recently shot. Not to mention the CAU student who was shot and the Spelmanite who was killed recently. I never felt in danger while I was at CAU and I’m still in the area and feel no threat (I’m from Detroit!!), but I do feel that safety for the students should be a bigger concern than making sure they leave their do-rag in the dorm room.
@Monk,
That is the thing, if you have a whole campus of thug wannabe’s then it breeds thug activity. If you tighten up the reigns and show these kids how to dress, some manners, and some morale then the whole of that class changes. Since it is obviously being missed in elementary, jr. high, and high school hek someone has to step up to the plate.
@Ms. Johnson,
Who’s a thug wannabe? People who wear baggy/skinny jeans ? What do my manners have to do with how my jeans fit? I dont think there’s a correlation between the two.
@Me fail english?,
I think that in theory it’s appropriate to say “This is some bull!” but in practice – the “dress yourself” theme is not working out. From the ‘House alum that I know, they support this move b/c they are sick of the
foolishnessthat they see as decreasing the reputation of their institution.People can say what they want – but let’s be real. It does look bad and unprofessional. I would be more than happy to debate the merits of free speech etc. with anyone all day since that is the field of law in which I practice. I do have a double-standard for that because unfortunately, society has a double-standard for Black men. And that is the very essence of the way we are taught at the Black Ivies, at least. We always have to be better than AND we are not going to give ANY other reason to be looked over. One can destroy the image of all.
@AdrianainDC,
What exactly is the black man getting looked over for when he wears his skinny jeans to the library? His gold teeth to the football game, etc.? And what white employers are scouting these dudes in the cafeteria expecting them to look like anything other than casual college students?
It’s absurd to draw the conclusion that “if he wears gold teeth to class, he’ll probably wear ‘em to a job interview.” I used to wear sweat pants to class at a real Ivy. My classmates wore pajamas. It didnt promote a “sleepy” culture and we all got jobs when we graduated.
@Smiley Face,
That was such a Hampton point of view!
My roomie/big sis was turned away from the caf because she’d just worked out and had a sports bra on under her tank! And she didn’t even want to eat in the caf! Dang!
Yoda (God rest her soul)The older ladies did not play. And that’s just how HU is. If you have a class in the business school on Wednesdays – had to wear a suit. Ogden attire anyone?I guess imho, this is really not a bad thing if it’s teaching students to be more presentable and it’s perpetuating a positive image. Honestly, the baggy pants and women’s clothing – not one’s sexuality – is an overt problem. And people can lie all they want to, but it is not a good look. At.all.
Dislaimer: I wore a uniform up until my freshman year at Hampton. Then I wore the “Hampton Uniform” (skinny jeans, leather jacket, boots
. Dress code = not that crucial. Go to another college if you don’t like it.
@AdrianainDC,
I wonder if corner dealers started wearing collared-shirts, slacks, and ties would the perception of “professional attire” change? and if corporate pale faces started to wear saggin’ jeans and ‘forces, what then?
“appropriate dress” has zero to do with appropriateness itself and everything to do with power distributions.
@Harold M. Clemens,
Um, I’m not sure if I follow your logic here – but I get the gist.
It is what it is. Now, if you’d asked me about this policy a few years ago when I was in my early 20s? I’d say it was messed up. But now that I’ve lived here – and in Europe – and I understand the dynamics and powerful stereotypes that exist about Blacks, I get what they are doing. My mom always said, college is about getting what you need to get a job. The other things are ancillary.
The admin at Morehouse already has the power, so that is not their motivation. One honest with one’s self and the ways of the world can disagree with their new policy, but will acknowledge that the logic behind it holds a lot of merit.
@AdrianainDC,
I HONESTLY dont think the policy makes sense on the following grounds:
-You have no idea where these kids are trying to go. So tryna get them in tip top shape for conservative, corporate culture is a waste of time. Esp since a lot of the movers and shakers in your Fortune 100 list are getting MORE casual.
-What these kids wear around the dorms has nothing to do with what they wear to job interviews. It was either you or someone else up top that said you wore skinny jeans, a leather jacket and heels to school. LOL. Where is that considered prof’l?
This seems to come from the Cos school of conforming to what we believe to be white stds so we can fit in with the man. Change your hair, change your jewelry, change your name so that the white man dont hold it against you. Ummm, on the low though the two (arguably) most powerful/influential people in the world are named Barack Hussein and Oprah. Oh yeah, and they’re black.
Wompington!
@Me fail english?, “wompington” Seriously? Because of different opinions? Hmmm. . .interesting.
I said that I wore those things – and absolutely would never wear them in a professional setting b/c they were inappropriate – and I knew that. BUT, it was neat and presentable and didn’t look sloppy. In fact, I dressed up more than wore jeans, so, that was my only point that quite frankly was directed in jest in response to my fellow Hamptonian who I am sure “got it”.
As far as your “real” Ivy, I went to a “real” one for law school and another “real” one for my masters and saw/hung out with the undergrads. The way they dressed would not have been predominant on my campus, not because of a dress code, but because that was the culture of the campus. I also saw the endless seminars on professional dress at those, like any other, schools. I will say again, HBCUs have differing cultures and this program does not fall out of line with it.
Again, I understand both sides of the argument – do you? As I stated before, if you’d asked me a few years ago, my response would be different. I base my opinion on my experiences. It’s not about making someone “white” no more than allowing the type of dress makes someone “black”. It’s just an image that they would like to keep in response to what has become obvious to them as shortcomings in appearance.
As for me, I’m a natural hair-wearing attorney at one of the biggest firms in the world. I do know that in the professional culture that I am in, there is an unspoken dress and appearance code and my friends questioned my ability to advance. I disagree with them, but I understand that I can’t roll in here with my afro, so I wear it in a bun. That’s not fair at all – but it is what it is, and I will play the damn game until I get what I want.
Again, try to see both sides. That is all.
@Adriana,
You make it sound like I personally attacked you. You presupposed that one who didnt see it your way isn’t being honest with oneself and the ways of the world and I am having trouble seeing both sides of the issue.
I pointed out the real Ivy (no need for quotes) distinction was in response to your “we at the black ivies” comment. I find it funny that you equate places that do this with the Ivies when we’ve never instituted any BS of this sort. At your Ivy everyone dressed biz-cas. Great! They still had a choice, not a code to follow.
Interesting how you got your draws in a knot because you felt attacked by “wompington” but (at least to this point) haven’t addressed the comment above.
@Me fail english?, “draws in a knot”
Wrong on so many levels. This is a blog on an interesting topic which is why I commented. There is nothing personal because I don’t know you – and you don’t know me. I actually understand exactly where you’re coming from, and actually can appreciate your comments and your point of view, though I disagree with them.
But as far as your snarky tone in this last response, you miss me with that. I said it was interesting because in debates, I’m not used to comments like that.
One thing about blogs is that you can never tell the tone of a post. I don’t know you and you definitely don’t know me enough to talk about my “draws”
Have a good one!
@AdrianainDC,
How about you “miss me” with the patronizing BS and insincere smileys.
(no smiley face)
@Me fail english?,
That was out of line and extremely uncalled for. Honestly, I’m not being patronizing nor am I being insincere. I truly do understand your p.o.v. and my comment about the “draws” was made in an attempt to let you know how light the situation was to me. I was trying to joke about the comments with you because it’s not that serious- but I got ya.
@AdrianainDC,
lol@ out of line/extremely uncalled for. I honestly didnt think it was so far from what you said to me (“Miss” me with that snarky tone or smthg) but I can be abrasive.
My fault. I apologize.
@Me fail english?,
No prob – disagreements make for interesting debates.
**clinks wine glass with yours** Now I’m going back to Lurkville. . .
@Harold M. Clemens,
“I wonder if corner dealers started wearing collared-shirts, slacks, and ties would the perception of “professional attire” change? and if corporate pale faces started to wear saggin’ jeans and ‘forces, what then?
“appropriate dress” has zero to do with appropriateness itself and everything to do with power distributions.”
This is a great point. What’s considered “proper attire” changes by the generation. I mean, Katherine Hepburn changed the game on what women “should” wear by rockin’ her pants but did she become less sophisticated or womanly because of her pants? Hells naw…she became famous for it. Did her acting ability suddenly disappear because she put on a pair of slacks? Despite the saying, in reality, the clothes do not make the man. They’re for show. Period.
@Cheekie,
Katherine Hepburn shoulda put on a skirt or changed her field (and never made progress).
Just like Michael Jordan shoulda wore coochie cutters to his job or quit (and never made progress).
Just like Martin and Medgar shoulda got up from the lunch counter or ate at home (and made no progress).
We here at VSB never challenge the status quo. *rolls eyes*
@Me fail english?,
*dying* @ the image of Air Jordan wearing coochie cutters.
@AdrianainDC, 2) As much as I hate to say this, the Morehouse man is sometimes the only representation of a group of educated Black men that many of the corporations, etc. that recruit see. I see the dress code as furthering a positive image of the well-groomed student that contradicts stereotypes and prejudices.
i’d agree with this if i really felt it was more of an, be the change you want to see type approach. i think its more of a be the change we want you to be so that we can claim morehouse looks like this.
@Panama Jackson,
I definitely see your side of the argument, but as I said before, there is a double standard. I think Morehouse is concerned with their students being “lumped in” and they are being preemptive in their approach to what is (in my opinion) a viable concern.
Can I go back to lurkdom now?
Hell, I gotta brief to file. . .
@AdrianainDC,
i’m just a tidbit confused. they are not saying “u must dress like this for an interview or in a professional environment” but they’re saying “u must NOT dress like this whilst living your life on campus”. not even class, but just on campus. campus (in my allen iverson ‘practice’ voice)? if people choose to limit their opportunities by dressing however they dress to class and not getting that on the spot interview, i think that’s on them.
i also hate the idea of having a select few people having to be the representation of a race….and it being based on appearance no less. can their actions not speak for them and not their murses?
@Chasdizz,
Dangit! Didn’t I say I was going back to lurking?!!! Geesh!
“i also hate the idea of having a select few people having to be the representation of a race” — Me too! You’re not going to get any disagreement from me on that statement. In our “post-racial” society, I would love nothing more than for others to look past the appearance/behavior of some and not to label all. But, it’s not happening and I doubt that it ever would.
We all know that it’s a double standard as to how Black men are perceived. And I think Morehouse is trying, in their own special way, to institute some reforms as a learning measure for students who really may not know. And there are students who really do not know protocol. The alums are the face of the school in the working world; but the school want companies and organizations to continue to be attracted to their campus and their students. They have sensed a culture change that is contrary to this particular mission and are trying to rectify it. Campus is a student’s “workplace”. I was always told that my job was school. . .The House is just acting on that mantra.
Now, can I ban you because of your “murses” comment?
The people at the plantation just peeked into my office because I laughed so loud and hard that I damn near fell out of my chair! Hi.lar.i.ous.
@AdrianainDC,
lol. u have to master the art of cough laughing. a laugh that becomes a “oh i’m just choking on something, don’t mind me.”
@Chasdizz,
I had it down but I was laughing so hard that I had to put my head on the desk. Whew. That really was a good one. Kudos – it made my day!